WEBVTT - William Palmer - Day and Nightshade 0:00:00.760 --> 0:00:02.920 Wait, are two people a group? 0:00:28.560 --> 0:00:31.360 You're listening Today and Nightshade? Before we begin our dive 0:00:31.400 --> 0:00:33.840 into the world of all things poison A quick note. 0:00:34.200 --> 0:00:38.720 This podcast discusses real life cases involving poisoning, violence, and death, 0:00:39.040 --> 0:00:42.040 which some listeners may find upsetting. Please listen at your 0:00:42.080 --> 0:00:46.240 own risk. This episode includes references to infant and child death. 0:00:46.479 --> 0:00:51.600 Take care while listening and enjoy the episode. Hey, Hi, Hello, 0:00:52.360 --> 0:00:54.920 Welcome to Day in Nightshade, the podcast where history's most 0:00:54.920 --> 0:00:58.040 infamous poisoners meet their match, and by match I mean 0:00:58.240 --> 0:01:02.680 well us armed with quite frankly unhealthy amount of research. 0:01:03.280 --> 0:01:05.200 I'm Jay, I'm one of your guys for this episode 0:01:05.200 --> 0:01:07.920 through the murky world of Victorian England and the somewhat 0:01:07.959 --> 0:01:10.400 stupid poisoner mister William Palmer. 0:01:10.600 --> 0:01:13.640 And I'm Katie here to provide some scientific insight, a 0:01:13.640 --> 0:01:16.680 brain full of random facts, and the occasional shocked gasp. 0:01:18.280 --> 0:01:21.360 So this is the very first episode of what we 0:01:21.400 --> 0:01:25.040 hope will be a very long running podcast, Day and Nightshade. 0:01:25.600 --> 0:01:28.039 We both don't want it to end, really no, it's 0:01:28.160 --> 0:01:30.000 the only way that we can force each other to 0:01:30.040 --> 0:01:33.360 spend time with each other because we have ADHD and 0:01:33.400 --> 0:01:35.959 we keep forgetting to communicate. But also I live in 0:01:35.959 --> 0:01:39.200 a different country, and like I said, I'm Jay. I 0:01:39.280 --> 0:01:42.000 live in Germany near the Black Forest, near the Black Forest, 0:01:42.040 --> 0:01:44.679 which is a cool place and it's back poisons and mushrooms. 0:01:45.760 --> 0:01:47.800 But it means that we can't see each other in 0:01:47.800 --> 0:01:48.920 person all that often. 0:01:49.160 --> 0:01:49.280 Hm. 0:01:49.720 --> 0:01:51.600 And so this podcast is a way to keep our 0:01:51.600 --> 0:01:54.280 friendship alive. That's basically what we're doing it for. So 0:01:54.320 --> 0:01:56.360 you need to listen to it otherwise you're gonna ruin 0:01:56.400 --> 0:01:57.919 a friendship. It's gonna be your fault. 0:01:57.960 --> 0:01:58.880 It will be your fault. 0:01:58.920 --> 0:02:02.720 That's a great way to introduce people to the threat. No, 0:02:02.880 --> 0:02:06.360 we've been friends for almost ten years, regardless of me 0:02:06.440 --> 0:02:09.240 being in Germany or not. And yeah, we both have 0:02:09.240 --> 0:02:13.720 a fascination for true crime and very specifically for poisons 0:02:13.800 --> 0:02:14.680 and poisoners. 0:02:15.080 --> 0:02:17.640 You might know Katie. You might know me from my 0:02:17.720 --> 0:02:22.400 globally chartbing Pooda. You might know me from podcast. 0:02:22.520 --> 0:02:23.720 Yeah you're so famous. 0:02:23.919 --> 0:02:27.280 I'm no. I actually have a sweatshirt that says nobody 0:02:27.320 --> 0:02:29.200 nobody cares if your Internet famous. 0:02:29.240 --> 0:02:32.040 I definitely don't care. I knew you before the fame, 0:02:32.680 --> 0:02:39.440 that's true, that's just poisoned you No, Katie's podcast is awesome. 0:02:39.520 --> 0:02:41.840 It's Who Did What Now pod if you want to 0:02:41.880 --> 0:02:42.280 listen to it. 0:02:42.360 --> 0:02:45.079 Yeah, and I think I'm probably gonna as you may 0:02:45.120 --> 0:02:49.640 be listening to this episode as a preliminary drop on 0:02:49.680 --> 0:02:52.839 my podcast channel, just just so that you know where 0:02:52.840 --> 0:02:53.560 you're going to be going. 0:02:54.040 --> 0:02:55.799 We will be doing the things. 0:02:56.040 --> 0:02:58.880 We will be doing things, so make sure to share 0:02:59.080 --> 0:03:02.079 care and let's in to day and night Hade. Thank you. 0:03:03.280 --> 0:03:05.560 Today, as I said, we're going to be talking about 0:03:05.760 --> 0:03:12.720 William Palmer, doctor, gambler, murderer, a man who you think 0:03:12.760 --> 0:03:14.920 would be good at those three things, but no, no, 0:03:15.000 --> 0:03:17.480 he was shockingly terrible at every single one of them, 0:03:17.480 --> 0:03:19.880 and extremely bad at hiding his crimes. 0:03:20.400 --> 0:03:23.040 For someone called the Prince of Poisoners, he had all 0:03:23.040 --> 0:03:24.920 the subtlety of a bull and a China show. 0:03:25.120 --> 0:03:28.040 Honestly, if poisoners had a ranking scale, he'd be somewhere 0:03:28.080 --> 0:03:32.320 between Captain obvious and practically waving a giant red flag. 0:03:32.600 --> 0:03:35.480 And yet somehow he still managed to mudder at least 0:03:35.480 --> 0:03:38.360 fourteen people allegedly allegedly. 0:03:39.000 --> 0:03:41.360 We can't it's been a long time, but it's alleged. 0:03:41.920 --> 0:03:45.720 We don't know. Important word there allegedly, because if he's 0:03:45.800 --> 0:03:49.320 listening from the afterlife, I'd like to say, William, buddy, 0:03:49.440 --> 0:03:52.360 we know you did it. It's pretty damn obvious. 0:03:52.120 --> 0:03:54.960 And the jury is certainly though still as well. So anyway, 0:03:55.040 --> 0:03:57.560 let's get back to where it all began. Shall we 0:04:00.080 --> 0:04:04.000 about to make an angel music joke like heart playing. 0:04:04.160 --> 0:04:08.440 I went with them lesbian purring for some reason I 0:04:08.440 --> 0:04:09.160 don't know. 0:04:09.600 --> 0:04:13.640 Anyway, Picture the scene. Picture the scene, Katie in your 0:04:13.640 --> 0:04:19.239 mind's eye. I'm picturing Roxley, Staffordshire, England, the year eighteen 0:04:19.320 --> 0:04:24.560 twenty four. A child is born, No, not into poverty, 0:04:24.920 --> 0:04:31.919 but into a wealthy family with eight kids. Nope, yes, nope, yes, no, yes, 0:04:32.120 --> 0:04:36.680 two parents, Sarah and Joseph Palmer, and eight kids, eight kids, 0:04:37.520 --> 0:04:38.680 eight yes. 0:04:38.640 --> 0:04:42.800 Little fresh humans. And they had money. The thing that wait, 0:04:42.839 --> 0:04:46.880 the thing that usually helps people like not become criminals. 0:04:47.360 --> 0:04:50.560 You'd think that, you'd think that it would, but no, See, 0:04:50.800 --> 0:04:54.040 mister Palmer had a gift. He could take a perfectly 0:04:54.080 --> 0:04:58.280 fine situation and completely ruin it, destroy it, goodbye, Calm 0:04:58.320 --> 0:04:59.360 Hello William Palmer. 0:05:00.120 --> 0:05:02.880 I mean that is a little bit relatable. Infirm as 0:05:02.920 --> 0:05:04.520 he falls into roses and comes out smell and the 0:05:04.520 --> 0:05:05.880 ship seems to be a bit. 0:05:06.000 --> 0:05:07.680 Seems to be my life. But the thing is that, 0:05:07.920 --> 0:05:11.680 dear William, that I didn't murder people. So as much 0:05:11.680 --> 0:05:15.120 as I can relate slightly, I don't relate to that yet. 0:05:16.080 --> 0:05:17.640 For legally, that was a joke. 0:05:18.440 --> 0:05:21.080 Jo, that was a joke. It's one of those joke 0:05:21.160 --> 0:05:24.280 things that I sometimes do. So his father, his father, 0:05:24.440 --> 0:05:27.440 his father was a sawyer. Do you say he was 0:05:27.480 --> 0:05:29.960 a sawyer? He was? He was a sawyer. You say so, 0:05:30.600 --> 0:05:33.320 I know, so, you say so, I saw so, you 0:05:33.400 --> 0:05:34.320 saw so he was a sawyer. 0:05:34.440 --> 0:05:35.640 I saw so he's a sawyer. 0:05:35.920 --> 0:05:36.800 This makes no sense. 0:05:37.400 --> 0:05:39.320 So a sawyer, for those of you who don't know, 0:05:39.760 --> 0:05:42.200 is a person who works in a saw mill. 0:05:42.800 --> 0:05:44.640 Nice little tip bit of ben further, thank you. 0:05:45.400 --> 0:05:48.760 Can I also like interject with a weak question. Yeah, sure, 0:05:50.080 --> 0:05:52.760 his father was a sawyer and they were rich. 0:05:53.400 --> 0:05:56.920 Yeah, I mean, the likelihood is he owned the saw mill, 0:05:57.000 --> 0:05:59.920 or at least had some level of misteaks in it. 0:06:00.400 --> 0:06:04.520 But Joseph Palmer, his father actually died when William was 0:06:04.560 --> 0:06:08.400 twelve and left the family with a seventy thousand pound inheritance. 0:06:09.440 --> 0:06:12.880 Sevent seventy thousand pounds then. 0:06:13.120 --> 0:06:17.320 Okay, So that would be I'm sorry, over six million 0:06:17.440 --> 0:06:23.440 pounds today. Okay, I'm sorry, colored me suspicious? 0:06:23.880 --> 0:06:27.599 Yeah, I think that the life insurance that he managed 0:06:27.640 --> 0:06:32.080 to take out as a sawyer for seventy thousand pounds 0:06:32.120 --> 0:06:34.599 six million. We're gonna say six million, because that's what 0:06:34.680 --> 0:06:37.160 we can understand, is that that much money. He got 0:06:37.160 --> 0:06:40.359 life insurance for six million, and they somehow managed to 0:06:40.880 --> 0:06:44.080 make that happen. But anyway, back to William. So, William 0:06:44.160 --> 0:06:47.120 ended up going to study medicine. He became a doctor 0:06:47.400 --> 0:06:50.479 and like, for a while there, everything in his life 0:06:50.520 --> 0:06:53.120 was calm, everything seemed fine. But you see, William had 0:06:53.120 --> 0:06:57.840 a fatal flaw strick naight, I mean yeah. But what 0:06:57.960 --> 0:07:01.600 I'm talking here though, is gambling. Typically, the man adored 0:07:01.640 --> 0:07:05.840 a good racetrack, loved his horses. He loved his horses. 0:07:05.880 --> 0:07:08.480 He got so deep into debt that his medical practice 0:07:08.480 --> 0:07:11.920 basically became a side hustle to like fund his racing addiction. 0:07:13.040 --> 0:07:17.440 That sounds like a perfectly reasonable combination to me, desperate 0:07:17.440 --> 0:07:21.640 gambler who has access to a large amount of deadly substances. 0:07:22.080 --> 0:07:27.000 Yes, yes, And now William Palmer began his so I say, 0:07:27.040 --> 0:07:27.720 slow descent. 0:07:28.680 --> 0:07:31.800 It wasn't that slow. It was a bit swift. It 0:07:31.840 --> 0:07:32.640 was with swift. 0:07:32.680 --> 0:07:37.040 But his descent into crime. Speed can be negotiated, can it? 0:07:37.760 --> 0:07:39.520 Can it be negotiated? 0:07:40.160 --> 0:07:42.560 We can. We can talk about how much time means 0:07:42.600 --> 0:07:46.600 to us at a different point. But Palmer's family, so 0:07:46.640 --> 0:07:48.920 he ended up marrying a woman named Anne Thornton. 0:07:50.400 --> 0:07:52.200 Let me just look into that quickly. 0:07:52.480 --> 0:07:55.160 Did he marry into the Thornton chocolate family? That would 0:07:55.160 --> 0:07:55.840 be a great one. 0:07:55.880 --> 0:07:56.760 I don't think it would be. 0:07:57.480 --> 0:08:00.960 But no, and Thornton and she had money, which it 0:08:01.040 --> 0:08:04.560 turned out was really convenient because well. 0:08:04.400 --> 0:08:07.000 Palmer gambled all his own money away. Yeah. 0:08:07.040 --> 0:08:12.360 Correct, So now and conveniently died in eighteen fifty four, 0:08:12.560 --> 0:08:14.440 which was only a few months after Palmer took out 0:08:14.480 --> 0:08:16.520 a life insurance policy. 0:08:16.120 --> 0:08:19.800 On her night when a tragic and totally unforeseeable event. 0:08:20.040 --> 0:08:22.520 Honestly, the eighteen hundreds were wild, Like if your husband 0:08:22.560 --> 0:08:24.480 took out a life insurance policy on you, you bet 0:08:24.520 --> 0:08:27.400 I'd have started running, because that's basically a death sentence 0:08:27.440 --> 0:08:27.640 to you. 0:08:27.880 --> 0:08:29.960 Oh yeah, it's not a super fun time to be 0:08:30.000 --> 0:08:30.440 living in. 0:08:30.440 --> 0:08:35.040 In fairness Victorian England Victorian generally Victorian. 0:08:34.840 --> 0:08:38.600 Generally Victorian England. I mean, everything's out to kill you. Yeah, wallpaper, 0:08:38.880 --> 0:08:39.400 your husband. 0:08:40.640 --> 0:08:43.480 We went in two very different directions. But yes, the husband. 0:08:44.440 --> 0:08:48.200 But she died. But she, honestly, in this situation, wasn't 0:08:48.200 --> 0:08:52.240 the only suspicious death. They had four children together, and 0:08:52.440 --> 0:08:56.200 all of them died young, some of whom were infants 0:08:56.240 --> 0:08:58.960 at the time of their deaths Now, obviously the mortality 0:08:59.040 --> 0:09:02.200 rate higher, but all of. 0:09:02.120 --> 0:09:04.240 Them, all of them. I'm sorry, all of. 0:09:04.160 --> 0:09:08.040 Them, every last one. But this was Victorian England. Like 0:09:08.080 --> 0:09:10.120 I said to people were like, oh dear, what tragic 0:09:10.160 --> 0:09:12.000 luck another infant mortality? 0:09:12.440 --> 0:09:16.400 Tragic luck or highly suspect coincidence. 0:09:16.920 --> 0:09:18.800 See, we have the privilege of looking at this from 0:09:18.800 --> 0:09:21.960 a twenty first century perspective. But actually, do you know, 0:09:22.760 --> 0:09:26.880 oh historian, what the child mortality rate was in Victorian England? 0:09:27.000 --> 0:09:29.600 Mm hmmm, So this, say, is what my eighteen hundreds, 0:09:29.600 --> 0:09:32.400 which would mean about fifteen to twenty percent of children 0:09:32.480 --> 0:09:36.520 died before the age of one, and about twenty five 0:09:36.600 --> 0:09:39.240 to thirty percent didn't make it to age five. 0:09:39.360 --> 0:09:44.440 That is a large number. That's actually insane. But these crimes, though, 0:09:44.480 --> 0:09:46.760 that the death of his wife and his four children, 0:09:46.880 --> 0:09:50.679 they were not what exposed him What exposed his crimes 0:09:50.679 --> 0:09:53.480 to the world, or well to England at the time, 0:09:53.800 --> 0:09:56.079 was the murder of a so called best friend, John 0:09:56.120 --> 0:09:56.959 Parsons Cook. 0:09:57.240 --> 0:09:59.920 Oh his best day. Yeah, he murdered his best day. 0:10:00.120 --> 0:10:00.679 Yeah. 0:10:00.840 --> 0:10:02.319 So they were gambling buddies. 0:10:02.800 --> 0:10:04.120 I mean yeah. He spent most of his time in 0:10:04.160 --> 0:10:06.800 a doctor's office or at the race track. So it's 0:10:06.840 --> 0:10:10.079 really either a nurse, a doctor, or a gambler. I 0:10:10.160 --> 0:10:12.960 mean yeah, that's his social circle. Maybe a jockey if 0:10:12.960 --> 0:10:15.559 he's lucky enough, but that's that's who he hung out with. 0:10:16.120 --> 0:10:20.000 But in eighteen fifty five, John Cook won an absolutely 0:10:20.120 --> 0:10:23.280 massive payout at the time of three thousand pounds. 0:10:22.960 --> 0:10:26.640 Which today and today's money would be near lay half 0:10:26.760 --> 0:10:31.600 a million pounds bet his absolute best pound buddy of friend, 0:10:31.640 --> 0:10:33.360 Palmer was so happy for. 0:10:33.480 --> 0:10:36.720 Him, oh, absolutely, In fact, he was so delighted for 0:10:36.840 --> 0:10:39.120 him that he immediately started poisoning him. 0:10:39.120 --> 0:10:39.959 So thoughtful. 0:10:40.120 --> 0:10:43.360 Yeah, so half a million. Can we just take a minute, 0:10:43.400 --> 0:10:49.000 half a million pounds on a horse. I don't know 0:10:49.000 --> 0:10:51.520 what he bet to win three thousand, but you know 0:10:51.720 --> 0:10:54.480 it was odd, that's what I mean, the odds of 0:10:54.559 --> 0:10:56.760 like we don't know what he must have seen, Like 0:10:57.120 --> 0:10:59.160 he won three thousand pounds, which at the time was 0:10:59.200 --> 0:11:00.000 a large amount of money. 0:11:00.200 --> 0:11:03.400 I mean, I'm sorry, three thousand pounds now money. I 0:11:03.440 --> 0:11:05.520 wouldn't mind winning three thousand pounds either, would I. 0:11:05.600 --> 0:11:08.800 But when it's the equivalent of half a million on 0:11:08.880 --> 0:11:11.640 a horse that want to race because it ran fast. 0:11:11.640 --> 0:11:13.559 I mean they go first. 0:11:13.600 --> 0:11:16.240 Though. Yeah, we won't get into the ethics of horse 0:11:16.320 --> 0:11:18.800 riding're riding. 0:11:18.880 --> 0:11:21.320 I don't like it. I mean I'm not saying. 0:11:21.120 --> 0:11:23.960 I would have gone, oh yeah, shit, I better poison 0:11:24.000 --> 0:11:26.600 this guy for his half a million. But I would 0:11:26.640 --> 0:11:29.120 have been proudly like, hey, bestI you got like some 0:11:29.240 --> 0:11:29.920 square change. 0:11:30.360 --> 0:11:32.000 Yeah, sharing his caring friend. 0:11:32.160 --> 0:11:35.240 Yeah, just not poisoning anyway. The two of them start 0:11:35.280 --> 0:11:40.120 were staying in a place called Shrewsbury, Shrewsbury, Shrewsbury, and 0:11:40.160 --> 0:11:45.080 they were celebrating Cook's big win. But suddenly, coincidentally, Cook 0:11:45.120 --> 0:11:47.520 started to feel extremely ill. 0:11:47.800 --> 0:11:52.120 And let me guess, Palmer, being a trained doctrinal, was 0:11:52.440 --> 0:11:53.920 very eager to help. 0:11:54.760 --> 0:11:58.160 Yeah, he was such a helpful friend, William so Palmer 0:11:58.480 --> 0:12:02.120 he ended up taking it upon him to quote unquote 0:12:02.280 --> 0:12:06.040 treat Cook's stomach issues that he was having. And by treat, 0:12:06.040 --> 0:12:08.359 I mean he was definitely dosing him up with strychnine 0:12:09.040 --> 0:12:13.560 before dying. Cook actually began to scream, I am poisoned. 0:12:14.120 --> 0:12:15.400 Well that should be case closed. 0:12:15.679 --> 0:12:18.439 Really, that should be it, shouldn't it. The dying man 0:12:18.520 --> 0:12:21.200 screaming I am poisoned, and the only person with him 0:12:22.080 --> 0:12:25.160 being a doctor with access to poison, one. 0:12:24.920 --> 0:12:26.880 Would think it's abouty opening shotcase. 0:12:27.480 --> 0:12:31.400 Anyway, imagine your murder victim loudly announcing that they've been 0:12:31.440 --> 0:12:34.480 poisoned to the world, to the room, and you think 0:12:34.800 --> 0:12:36.760 I can definitely walk away from this. 0:12:36.760 --> 0:12:39.680 This is not exactly criminal mastermind behavior. 0:12:40.080 --> 0:12:42.120 Well, you've heard us mentioned it a couple of times now, 0:12:42.120 --> 0:12:47.320 and since this is a poison podcast, strychnine Katie, what 0:12:47.440 --> 0:12:49.200 do you know about this poison? 0:12:49.240 --> 0:12:51.120 Do I know about poison? Let me get my big 0:12:51.120 --> 0:12:51.960 book of poisons. 0:12:54.600 --> 0:12:55.880 What is Stryck nine? What does it do? 0:12:56.559 --> 0:13:01.640 Stryck nine? It was an over the count like you 0:13:01.640 --> 0:13:02.720 can get it over the counter. 0:13:03.000 --> 0:13:04.160 Oh, like pain killers? 0:13:04.200 --> 0:13:06.960 Okay? What does it do? Though? It killed him? I 0:13:06.960 --> 0:13:11.880 mean yes it did. Listen, you're getting a backstory, okay, oh, 0:13:11.920 --> 0:13:16.679 the full backstory. The story you will, you will. It 0:13:16.679 --> 0:13:21.000 had been used like quite a lot. It was in tonics. 0:13:21.200 --> 0:13:25.480 It was used as like appetites of pressants, all these, 0:13:25.600 --> 0:13:29.800 all these things. However, it was mainly used as a 0:13:29.840 --> 0:13:31.079 poison to kill animals. 0:13:32.160 --> 0:13:35.760 Okay, so like rats. 0:13:35.280 --> 0:13:38.160 Yeah, but it gets better. But then sort of in 0:13:38.240 --> 0:13:41.880 the Victorian era, it became how did I put this 0:13:41.960 --> 0:13:47.800 gently a performance enhancing drug because it had effects like coffee, 0:13:47.840 --> 0:13:50.599 So they thought it would be like I'm met to 0:13:50.640 --> 0:13:53.400 go first. I'm so oh. 0:13:53.440 --> 0:13:58.120 We went with two different performance enhancing drugs. There meantag 0:13:58.360 --> 0:14:01.000 I thought they were to have better sex. I thought 0:14:01.000 --> 0:14:03.280 that's what you were Oh my god. I was like, 0:14:03.400 --> 0:14:08.319 it kills animals, let's give it to me sex life. Jesus, 0:14:08.559 --> 0:14:14.520 I'm so sorry. I should have horrified the performance in 0:14:14.600 --> 0:14:16.760 my fault. It's also the way you looked at me, 0:14:17.000 --> 0:14:20.560 like wiggling the eyebrows performance enhancing drug. I'm like, what 0:14:20.560 --> 0:14:21.320 am I supposed to think? 0:14:21.320 --> 0:14:22.760 It's toldly because I don't have botogs and now when 0:14:22.760 --> 0:14:27.240 I can actually move them. Books Another phone poison, which 0:14:27.320 --> 0:14:30.400 we will be covering at some point too. Strict nine 0:14:30.440 --> 0:14:34.400 affects a person's ability to control movement. And what this 0:14:34.560 --> 0:14:38.440 does is it binds one of the two neurotransmittals that 0:14:38.520 --> 0:14:43.720 send messages between the nelve cells. One of these neurotransmittals 0:14:43.800 --> 0:14:48.000 tells a nelve to fire, another one tells it to stop. 0:14:48.120 --> 0:14:52.320 So it's like stop going stuck off. Okay, So if 0:14:52.360 --> 0:14:56.520 it glycine and aceta coline, basically strict nine attaches to 0:14:56.800 --> 0:15:00.240 receptors and therefore blocks the signals for the nelve to stop. 0:15:01.240 --> 0:15:04.560 What this means is that this forces the continuation of 0:15:04.600 --> 0:15:10.280 a nerves movement, which is increased by the slightest stimulus. 0:15:11.480 --> 0:15:17.120 So you're telling me that are we talking like their muscles, yes, contract, 0:15:17.400 --> 0:15:21.400 It's yeah, the muscles contract and they keep contracting. 0:15:21.600 --> 0:15:25.480 They also twitch, they have convulsions. The way that it 0:15:25.520 --> 0:15:30.520 attacks the central nervous system, the muscles all contract simultaneously. 0:15:30.760 --> 0:15:35.080 So you're talking legs, arms, back, neck, face. It causes 0:15:35.120 --> 0:15:39.480 the back to arch unnaturally. You sort of end up 0:15:39.520 --> 0:15:41.680 like a letter like an upside down you you know, 0:15:41.880 --> 0:15:47.960 I'm so you're tensed up. Your body is tensing, your 0:15:47.960 --> 0:15:51.640 facial muscles sort of go into a smile like the joker. 0:15:52.440 --> 0:15:56.800 That's what It's just interesting because that's similar to tatanus 0:15:56.960 --> 0:15:58.960 is the same thing. It's lock jaw that makes your 0:15:59.480 --> 0:16:01.760 makes your smile like the jogger, and so it just 0:16:01.840 --> 0:16:06.360 causes everything. So it looks like you're smiling, when really 0:16:06.400 --> 0:16:08.400 it's just all of your muscles tightening. 0:16:08.240 --> 0:16:11.800 And you are awake through all of this. And what 0:16:11.840 --> 0:16:16.880 this does is this causes It basically causes suffocation because 0:16:16.920 --> 0:16:20.440 of the way that your muscles contract. It puts pressure 0:16:20.560 --> 0:16:24.320 on the lungs and yeah, and it affects the person's 0:16:24.320 --> 0:16:28.880 ability to breathe. And because it also stimulates the brain, 0:16:28.960 --> 0:16:32.680 remember it's a performance in hands, sir, it gives a 0:16:32.880 --> 0:16:34.720 heightened sense of perception. 0:16:35.440 --> 0:16:38.600 So not only are you suffering from your muscles contracting 0:16:38.640 --> 0:16:41.240 and not relaxing and you're you're in pain from that, 0:16:41.520 --> 0:16:42.920 you're hyper aware. 0:16:43.080 --> 0:16:45.280 Yeah, so you're very much aware of everything that is 0:16:45.320 --> 0:16:49.560 happening to you, and your body is spasming, frozen with 0:16:49.600 --> 0:16:53.040 your eyes wide open. And it is believed this is 0:16:53.080 --> 0:16:55.800 like one of the most antagonizing deaths. 0:16:55.960 --> 0:17:00.200 I mean, it certainly sounds it cure treatment kind of. 0:17:01.080 --> 0:17:03.600 If you know that you have consumed strict nine but 0:17:03.720 --> 0:17:08.320 you haven't had any symptoms yet, you can like flush 0:17:08.880 --> 0:17:11.600 the stomach right and you can sort of maybe be 0:17:11.680 --> 0:17:16.840 okay once the symptoms do appear. However, I mean, if 0:17:16.840 --> 0:17:21.119 you give muscle relax in tranquilizers and rest in a dark, 0:17:21.280 --> 0:17:25.440 quiet room without stimuli, and the symptoms is kept under control, 0:17:25.760 --> 0:17:29.600 the poison can pass through the body within twenty four hours, 0:17:30.000 --> 0:17:31.320 like they were talking eighteen fifties. 0:17:31.480 --> 0:17:35.239 Yeah, even today, there's no actual cure unless you are 0:17:35.280 --> 0:17:38.479 one hundred percent sure that you ingested strict nine and 0:17:38.520 --> 0:17:40.000 you go before you have symptoms. 0:17:40.160 --> 0:17:43.200 Yeah, effectively, I mean you can kind of maybe keep 0:17:43.200 --> 0:17:46.040 it under control if they like super quickly get you 0:17:46.040 --> 0:17:48.720 with like muscle relax and tranquilizers in the thing. But 0:17:49.800 --> 0:17:51.479 it's a maybe. It's a maybe. 0:17:51.760 --> 0:17:54.479 So there's no real antidote to this. There is not 0:17:54.520 --> 0:17:58.320 only did he kill people with this poison, he chose 0:17:58.359 --> 0:18:00.479 something that is and he would have understood this as 0:18:00.480 --> 0:18:02.720 well as as a doctor. He would have understood that 0:18:02.800 --> 0:18:06.880 it is agonizing. Yeah, that this is a horrified It's 0:18:06.920 --> 0:18:08.680 not just you go to sleep and you die. 0:18:09.160 --> 0:18:13.360 Yeah, not like you know, an overdose of ether, right, 0:18:13.560 --> 0:18:17.720 not just something that would just yeah, he wasn't suffocating 0:18:17.720 --> 0:18:20.000 in Yeah, in my opinion, it's not like, yes, he 0:18:20.040 --> 0:18:22.679 did this for his you know, gambling addiction. 0:18:22.760 --> 0:18:24.960 Clearly he wanted the money, so he could gamble more, 0:18:25.320 --> 0:18:28.800 but he clearly didn't care if his victims suffered. Yeah, Like, 0:18:28.840 --> 0:18:32.400 that's the thing is that he wasn't just poisoning for money, 0:18:32.520 --> 0:18:32.760 was he. 0:18:33.240 --> 0:18:35.560 No, he must have had something to do with it 0:18:35.560 --> 0:18:38.960 because he had other options. Yes, he was a doctor. 0:18:39.160 --> 0:18:42.600 He had access to pharmacies with all levels of what. 0:18:42.760 --> 0:18:44.080 He could have poisoned people with. 0:18:44.240 --> 0:18:46.440 So many, so many it's the Victorian your our sticks 0:18:46.480 --> 0:18:47.560 everywhere are you talking about? 0:18:47.960 --> 0:18:50.200 But he chose one of the most that he would 0:18:50.200 --> 0:18:52.600 have understood, one of the most painful poisons he could 0:18:52.640 --> 0:18:57.080 have given his wife, his children, and his then friend. Yeah, 0:18:57.119 --> 0:19:00.440 plus the other people that he There were other children 0:19:01.240 --> 0:19:04.800 that he had, like illegitimate children, Yeah, and other people 0:19:04.800 --> 0:19:10.280 that he was around that he also allegedly allegedly poisoned. 0:19:11.720 --> 0:19:16.960 There's also evidence to suggest that the one of the 0:19:17.000 --> 0:19:21.120 one of the babies that he Now this is horrible, 0:19:21.160 --> 0:19:23.760 but one of the babies that he poisoned was seen 0:19:23.840 --> 0:19:26.800 to have had some sort of seizure. That's why they 0:19:26.880 --> 0:19:31.960 described what was happening the convulsions, which, from what you've 0:19:32.000 --> 0:19:35.119 described with strychnine is likely what he'd used at the 0:19:35.160 --> 0:19:38.159 time as well. So Strick nine was his poison of choice. 0:19:38.200 --> 0:19:41.240 I know, so to kill a baby with strict nine, 0:19:41.280 --> 0:19:45.760 to kill anyone, but a baby with strict nine, Like, 0:19:45.800 --> 0:19:49.760 from what you've just explained, it is beyond excruciating. I 0:19:49.760 --> 0:19:54.040 can't even imagine that. Yeah, and to have the performance 0:19:54.119 --> 0:19:56.399 enhancer on top of that, so your brain is not 0:19:56.440 --> 0:20:01.800 even aware, it's hyper aware as you away. This man 0:20:02.040 --> 0:20:04.399 clearly was not just in this for the gambling na. 0:20:05.000 --> 0:20:07.239 He was clearly in this for some level of he 0:20:07.320 --> 0:20:12.240 enjoyed it. Palmer at this point starts to spiral. The 0:20:12.280 --> 0:20:15.240 authorities are like, you know, this is this is suspicious, 0:20:15.280 --> 0:20:16.800 we should start investigating. 0:20:16.880 --> 0:20:18.000 And what you know, a. 0:20:18.000 --> 0:20:21.240 Man screaming as he convulses to death I am poisoned 0:20:21.760 --> 0:20:24.800 would generally make you think maybe you should open an investigation. 0:20:25.359 --> 0:20:29.280 But Palmer immediately this is what I'm talking about bowling 0:20:29.400 --> 0:20:33.320 china shop earlier. He immediately makes this situation worse, like 0:20:33.680 --> 0:20:36.600 he has a talent for that. What what? 0:20:36.600 --> 0:20:38.080 What what did he do? 0:20:38.880 --> 0:20:41.520 So the first thing he did, because there's multiple things 0:20:41.520 --> 0:20:44.080 to this, the first thing he did is he tried 0:20:44.119 --> 0:20:48.160 to bribe Cook's betting agent to hand over Cook's winnings. 0:20:48.480 --> 0:20:50.160 I'm sorry, he tried to brabe a bookie. 0:20:50.520 --> 0:20:53.080 Yes, that's the smooth the body of a man who 0:20:53.160 --> 0:20:56.639 had just won three thousand pounds that day or the 0:20:56.720 --> 0:21:03.160 day before and had died. I mean, authorities ended up 0:21:03.320 --> 0:21:07.200 exhuming Cook's body because they had already worried him. 0:21:07.359 --> 0:21:07.560 Yeah. 0:21:07.680 --> 0:21:09.800 Now, an interesting thing about that as well is they 0:21:09.800 --> 0:21:13.200 exhumed him to the hotel room. Like, they took him 0:21:13.240 --> 0:21:16.880 back to a hotel room and did the autopsy there. 0:21:17.520 --> 0:21:22.000 And when they were examining Cook for the second time, yes, 0:21:22.520 --> 0:21:26.320 Palmer went marching straight up to the corner and he said, 0:21:26.920 --> 0:21:28.640 are you going to open his stomach? 0:21:30.480 --> 0:21:34.080 No, it's not suspicious at all. What I'm sorry, Captain 0:21:34.119 --> 0:21:35.520 Obvious just strikes again. 0:21:36.560 --> 0:21:38.560 I mean he basically may as well point and say 0:21:38.600 --> 0:21:41.080 I put it there. It's like walking into a police station. 0:21:41.119 --> 0:21:43.399 It's like, just out of curiosity. How long does it 0:21:43.440 --> 0:21:45.600 take to test a murder weapon for fingerprints? 0:21:45.920 --> 0:21:49.600 Asking for a friend? But okay, I'm sorry, okay, I'm sorry. 0:21:49.640 --> 0:21:51.760 He wait, he goes to his Bookiy. Yes, so he 0:21:51.800 --> 0:21:55.359 goes to his bookcase. Yes, he's like, oh, give me 0:21:55.400 --> 0:21:55.960 the weddings. 0:21:56.080 --> 0:21:59.840 He goes to the bookie. Yeah, to try and bribe 0:22:00.480 --> 0:22:04.520