WEBVTT - The Truth with Lisa Boothe: Why Did Simone Biles Attack Riley Gaines? 0:00:00.480 --> 0:00:02.800 Welcome to the Truth with Lisa Booth, where we cut 0:00:02.800 --> 0:00:04.240 through the noise to get to the heart of what 0:00:04.400 --> 0:00:07.840 matters the biggest issues facing our country today. We've got 0:00:07.880 --> 0:00:10.360 Jennifer Say on the show. She is president and founder 0:00:10.400 --> 0:00:14.480 of xx x y Athletics. She's also a former Levi's executive. 0:00:14.600 --> 0:00:16.400 We found her on the show before she found herself 0:00:16.440 --> 0:00:18.360 in a little bit of hot water, speaking out against 0:00:18.400 --> 0:00:21.800 lockdowns and school closures. Well, now she's entered the fray again. 0:00:22.040 --> 0:00:24.560 She's become a leading voice in the fight for fairness 0:00:24.600 --> 0:00:27.840 in women's sports. That's the emphasis, the whole basis of 0:00:27.920 --> 0:00:31.320 her company, XXXY, to keep men out of women's sports. 0:00:31.560 --> 0:00:34.839 We'll talk about our companies dear Nike campaign which went viral, 0:00:35.320 --> 0:00:39.120 obviously calling out Nike for not protecting women's sports, and 0:00:39.240 --> 0:00:42.080 of course, as her background as an elite gymnast, we'll 0:00:42.080 --> 0:00:44.720 talk to her about Simone Biles, who decided to go 0:00:44.760 --> 0:00:46.839 after Riley Gains. I'm sure you guys all saw that 0:00:46.880 --> 0:00:50.320 Twitter exchange. She called Riley a bully. Even you know, 0:00:50.600 --> 0:00:54.560 criticized Riley's appearance. So why the hell is Simone Biles 0:00:54.960 --> 0:00:58.560 getting involved in this? Why isn't she protecting women's sports. 0:00:59.040 --> 0:01:02.480 As Jennifer out that and then from Minnesota to California, 0:01:02.520 --> 0:01:05.880 we're seeing blue states across the country at odds with 0:01:05.959 --> 0:01:09.240 the Trump administration doubling down on men and women's sports. 0:01:09.280 --> 0:01:11.240 I'll get her take on that and so much more. 0:01:11.480 --> 0:01:14.120 So stay tuned for Jennifer Say, President and founder of 0:01:14.280 --> 0:01:16.640 xx X Y Athletics. 0:01:21.040 --> 0:01:22.640 Well, Jennifer Say, it's great to have you on. 0:01:23.400 --> 0:01:25.920 I ran into you recently, which was great to see 0:01:25.959 --> 0:01:28.040 you and see You're in my mind. So I was like, 0:01:28.080 --> 0:01:30.360 I've got to get you on after the Simone Biles 0:01:30.360 --> 0:01:31.920 and all this other stuff going on. So I was like, 0:01:31.959 --> 0:01:33.120 I've got to have you on the show. So I 0:01:33.120 --> 0:01:34.640 appreciate you making the time. 0:01:35.319 --> 0:01:36.959 Happy to be here. Thank you for having me. 0:01:38.080 --> 0:01:40.839 So, you know, Jennifer, I had you on previously when 0:01:41.000 --> 0:01:43.840 we were talking about you know, you took a stand 0:01:43.920 --> 0:01:47.440 during COVID about school closures and you ended up, you know, 0:01:47.440 --> 0:01:50.000 put your job in jeopardy as an executive Levi Strauss 0:01:50.040 --> 0:01:54.320 and Company. You've now entered the fray again on another 0:01:54.640 --> 0:01:56.880 you know, controversial issue, which you know, really if you 0:01:56.880 --> 0:01:59.480 think about either of these issues, they shouldn't be controversial. Yet, 0:01:59.520 --> 0:02:01.760 you know, here we are as a society. But you 0:02:01.800 --> 0:02:05.240 started a clothing company focused on men and women's sports 0:02:05.280 --> 0:02:08.240 and keeping men out of women's sports. But we're basically 0:02:08.320 --> 0:02:11.120 just preserving women's sports for women. Wh I get involved 0:02:11.160 --> 0:02:12.359 in this fight, I'm. 0:02:12.200 --> 0:02:13.519 A glutton for punishment. 0:02:15.919 --> 0:02:19.040 Well we think, we think like so I respect it. 0:02:20.600 --> 0:02:23.680 Yeah, And you know, you skipped my first sort of 0:02:23.840 --> 0:02:27.000 internet flogging, which was long time ago, at the beginning 0:02:27.040 --> 0:02:28.760 of social media. In two thousand and eight, I was 0:02:28.760 --> 0:02:32.200 actually the first former elite gymnast to speak out about 0:02:32.240 --> 0:02:35.799 the abuse that happens in gymnastics. I was twenty years 0:02:35.800 --> 0:02:38.120 out of the sport and still suffering from the you know, 0:02:38.160 --> 0:02:40.600 emotional and physical abuse, and I wrote a book about 0:02:40.639 --> 0:02:45.280 it called Choked Up. And you would think now in hindsight, 0:02:45.360 --> 0:02:47.920 that people would have wanted to know about that, but 0:02:47.960 --> 0:02:50.400 that certainly was not the response I got. And I 0:02:50.520 --> 0:02:54.000 was harassed and bullied by all the sport governing bodies, 0:02:54.080 --> 0:02:55.000 which it. 0:02:54.960 --> 0:02:56.799 Relates to what I'm going to tell you. Now. 0:02:58.400 --> 0:03:01.120 You know, these governing bodies they're not They are not 0:03:01.400 --> 0:03:05.959 in it to protect the athletes. They never have been, 0:03:06.080 --> 0:03:08.440 and they won't do the right thing unless their hand 0:03:08.520 --> 0:03:10.520 is forced and I think we're seeing that now. And 0:03:10.560 --> 0:03:13.160 you see the wide range of governing bodies, from the 0:03:13.280 --> 0:03:16.960 US Olympic Committee to the individual sport governing bodies which 0:03:17.000 --> 0:03:19.799 allow males to compete in women's sports, to the NCAA, 0:03:20.240 --> 0:03:26.160 which has a really pathetic toothless policy in place. They 0:03:26.240 --> 0:03:29.800 just won't they won't. They're they're sort of catering to 0:03:30.160 --> 0:03:34.000 sponsors and sponsorship dollars, and you know, the loudest most, 0:03:35.280 --> 0:03:38.640 the loudest bullies really, and the irony in this situation, 0:03:38.720 --> 0:03:41.400 as far as you know women's sports is concerned, is 0:03:42.000 --> 0:03:45.280 the loudest bullies are the minority, but they're effective bullies 0:03:45.320 --> 0:03:47.880 and they keep the majority of the eighty percent silent. 0:03:48.160 --> 0:03:49.760 And that's why I wanted to start. 0:03:49.560 --> 0:03:52.520 The brand, because you know, I have a long history 0:03:52.520 --> 0:03:57.400 of brand building twenty three years at Levi's. I was 0:03:57.400 --> 0:04:00.400 a former elite athlete who's been out spoken and about 0:04:00.400 --> 0:04:03.119 the protection and empowerment and female athletes. And I looked 0:04:03.120 --> 0:04:05.960 around with all the other brands who claim to protect 0:04:06.040 --> 0:04:08.400 women and claim to champion women, but they do nothing 0:04:08.440 --> 0:04:08.880 of the sort. 0:04:08.920 --> 0:04:11.120 They actually treat them with astonishing disregards. 0:04:11.120 --> 0:04:13.160 So I figured, you know, I don't mind saying true 0:04:13.240 --> 0:04:15.720 but controversial things. And I think a brand can help 0:04:15.760 --> 0:04:17.919 make it cool to stand. 0:04:17.720 --> 0:04:18.760 Up and protect women. 0:04:18.839 --> 0:04:21.400 So that's really my goal is to influence the culture, 0:04:21.880 --> 0:04:24.760 because I think the legislation and the politics, you know, 0:04:24.920 --> 0:04:28.279 are downstream from culture, but we've been losing the cultural battle. 0:04:28.320 --> 0:04:30.760 So I want to contribute to turning that around. 0:04:31.560 --> 0:04:34.360 So real quick, I want to set back to your 0:04:34.520 --> 0:04:38.800 first entry into here, being a Glutton of punishment A 0:04:39.240 --> 0:04:42.720 And you're talked up the autobiography because you also were 0:04:42.760 --> 0:04:46.040 one of the producers of Athlete, a, a documentary on 0:04:46.320 --> 0:04:50.080 about Larry Nasar, that that scandal at USA Gymnastics. It 0:04:50.160 --> 0:04:54.760 won an Emmy for in twenty twenty four Outstanding Investigative Documentary. 0:04:55.680 --> 0:04:58.359 But why would you be why would you get in 0:04:58.360 --> 0:04:59.040 trouble for that? 0:04:59.279 --> 0:05:00.520 Why is it second? 0:05:00.560 --> 0:05:03.360 I mean, because this is a guy who was charged 0:05:03.440 --> 0:05:06.200 with sexually assaulting at least two hundred and sixty five 0:05:06.279 --> 0:05:08.919 young women and girls. This is someone who was sentenced 0:05:08.920 --> 0:05:12.280 to sixty years in federal president This is someone who 0:05:12.320 --> 0:05:15.720 pled guilty to possession of child pornography, who you know, 0:05:15.839 --> 0:05:18.240 was then sentenced to an additional forty to one hundred 0:05:18.240 --> 0:05:20.640 and seventy years in the Michigan Department of Corrections. I mean, 0:05:20.640 --> 0:05:24.440 the list goes on. Yeah, this guy did to young 0:05:24.600 --> 0:05:27.880 girls and women, So why the hell would that be 0:05:28.000 --> 0:05:31.080 controversial for you stand out there, Well, you would. 0:05:30.800 --> 0:05:33.760 Think that it wouldn't be Lisa. But this was two 0:05:33.760 --> 0:05:35.800 thousand and eight. It was before the Me Too movement. 0:05:35.880 --> 0:05:38.039 And to be clear, I didn't write about Nasar. I 0:05:38.040 --> 0:05:40.880 didn't know Nassar. He started right when I was leaving 0:05:40.920 --> 0:05:45.840 the sport as a quote unquote doctor for USA Gymnastics. 0:05:45.839 --> 0:05:48.120 We overlapped by one year, but I never met him. 0:05:49.120 --> 0:05:53.200 I wrote about the national team coach who took Team 0:05:53.320 --> 0:05:56.920 USA to the Olympics in Los Angeles in nineteen eighty four, 0:05:56.960 --> 0:06:00.000 who was a serial sexual creditor. He was a very 0:06:00.120 --> 0:06:03.039 well respected coach. You weren't supposed to say these things. 0:06:03.400 --> 0:06:05.000 And again I'm going to take you back. It was 0:06:05.040 --> 0:06:08.000 before me Too. You weren't supposed to listen to women. 0:06:08.360 --> 0:06:10.720 Certainly weren't supposed to listen to these little girls, which 0:06:10.800 --> 0:06:12.760 you know, we were like little wind up, you know, 0:06:12.839 --> 0:06:16.560 wind us up, go do the thing, keep your mouth shut, 0:06:16.760 --> 0:06:17.560 be obedient. 0:06:17.760 --> 0:06:19.200 You know. Further, the party. 0:06:18.920 --> 0:06:23.600 Line about USA Gymnastics being you know, this factory of 0:06:23.720 --> 0:06:25.640 happy little pixie gymnasts. 0:06:25.640 --> 0:06:29.760 You weren't supposed to talk about it, and I talked 0:06:29.800 --> 0:06:30.200 about it. 0:06:30.240 --> 0:06:32.520 And you know what the reason I did it was 0:06:32.560 --> 0:06:36.280 because I was suffering. Twenty years later, I was almost 0:06:36.279 --> 0:06:38.400 forty years old and I was still struggling. I was 0:06:38.440 --> 0:06:41.600 this successful person, I was a mom too kids, successful 0:06:41.600 --> 0:06:43.640 in the corporate arena, and yet the fact that I'd 0:06:43.720 --> 0:06:48.360 endured this intense physical and emotional abuse for over ten 0:06:48.440 --> 0:06:54.600 years in the sport, I struggled with anxiety, depression, very 0:06:54.640 --> 0:06:56.919 low self esteem. And you know, I really wrote the 0:06:56.920 --> 0:07:00.560 book not to be a whistleblower, but to try to 0:07:00.560 --> 0:07:04.880 make sense of it for myself and to try to 0:07:05.400 --> 0:07:09.279 expose the issue to protect other young girls doing the sport. 0:07:09.320 --> 0:07:10.800 I didn't want them to have to go through what 0:07:10.840 --> 0:07:13.119 I'd gone through. And it was a long haul because 0:07:13.200 --> 0:07:16.480 right when I wrote the book, I mean, the wider community, 0:07:16.520 --> 0:07:19.040 like regular people sort of read it and looked at 0:07:19.040 --> 0:07:21.080 and said, yeah, that seems feasible that could be going 0:07:21.120 --> 0:07:24.600 on in the sport. But the pr campaign against me 0:07:24.680 --> 0:07:27.600 by the US Olympic Committee, USA Gymnastics, and you know, 0:07:27.680 --> 0:07:30.320 my own teammates from both teams and. 0:07:30.280 --> 0:07:31.119 My private club. 0:07:31.160 --> 0:07:33.080 It's like, this is going to relate if we talk 0:07:33.120 --> 0:07:35.400 about Simo. But you are you are You come up 0:07:35.440 --> 0:07:38.280 in the sport to be seen and not heard. You 0:07:38.400 --> 0:07:42.920 must be obedient. It's a it's a subjective sport. If 0:07:42.920 --> 0:07:45.920 you if you are disobedient, you won't make the team, 0:07:46.080 --> 0:07:49.640 You'll get kicked off. I you know, all of these 0:07:49.680 --> 0:07:52.160 girls who grew up to become women, they were still 0:07:52.240 --> 0:07:53.240 sort of seeking the. 0:07:53.160 --> 0:07:56.120 Approval of their abusers, of their coaches, and. 0:07:56.040 --> 0:07:59.800 So I was, you know, threatening to expose the reality 0:07:59.840 --> 0:08:02.480 of sport, and they didn't want any part of it. 0:08:02.800 --> 0:08:04.119 But I think about this a lot. 0:08:04.400 --> 0:08:07.920 If they had, If USA Gymnastics had investigated my claims 0:08:07.920 --> 0:08:09.400 in the book, and I talked a lot about my 0:08:09.480 --> 0:08:12.880 personal coaches who abused in plain sight on the competition floor, 0:08:13.120 --> 0:08:17.320 if they had investigated those claims instead of villain I, 0:08:17.520 --> 0:08:22.720 you know, villifying me, hundreds of victims would have been saved. 0:08:23.160 --> 0:08:25.680 Over one hundred Naser victims would have been saved. 0:08:25.960 --> 0:08:29.000 But they were already covering up his abuse at that time. 0:08:29.040 --> 0:08:30.840 And so that is one of the things I thought about. 0:08:30.880 --> 0:08:33.520 I was like, they're going so hard after me, they 0:08:33.559 --> 0:08:36.200 have something even bigger they're hiding. I didn't know it 0:08:36.240 --> 0:08:38.720 was Naser, but I tell you the Donna Peters story. 0:08:38.760 --> 0:08:41.400 He was the Olympic team coach I spoke about that 0:08:41.559 --> 0:08:44.000 was that kind of rock the gymnastics world. He's now 0:08:44.000 --> 0:08:44.960 banned from the sport. 0:08:45.120 --> 0:08:49.840 I mean, he raked Olympic level athletes. 0:08:50.400 --> 0:08:53.440 We've got more with Jennifer, but first folks were saying 0:08:53.480 --> 0:08:57.240 something truly disturbing. Anti Semitism is on the rise around 0:08:57.280 --> 0:09:01.520 the world, and sadly right here in America, schools being targeted, 0:09:02.000 --> 0:09:06.079 synagogues threatened, families living in fear. It's something we hoped 0:09:06.120 --> 0:09:08.520 we never see again in our lifetime. And let me 0:09:08.559 --> 0:09:11.640 say this, silence is just not an option. This is 0:09:11.679 --> 0:09:14.199 the moment to take a stand. That's why I want 0:09:14.240 --> 0:09:16.679 to tell you about the International Fellowship of Christians and 0:09:16.760 --> 0:09:20.400 Jews or IFCJ. They're on the front lines providing real 0:09:20.400 --> 0:09:23.520 help where it's needed most. They're giving food and shelter 0:09:23.600 --> 0:09:27.040 to Jewish families under threat, building bomb shelters for children, 0:09:27.360 --> 0:09:30.480 helping survivors of hate rebuild their lives. And they don't 0:09:30.520 --> 0:09:33.560 just respond to crisis, they work every day to prevent it. 0:09:33.720 --> 0:09:36.120 Your gift of only forty five dollars will help support 0:09:36.160 --> 0:09:39.080 their life saving work by helping provide food, shelter, and 0:09:39.120 --> 0:09:41.880 so much more. The Bible says, I will bless those 0:09:41.920 --> 0:09:45.640 who bless you. Supporting IFDJ is a spiritual stand. It's 0:09:45.640 --> 0:09:47.800 showing up for God's people when it counts the most. 0:09:48.280 --> 0:09:51.199 So please call eight eight eight four a eight IFCJ. 0:09:51.840 --> 0:09:54.160 That's eight eight eight four a eight four three two 0:09:54.240 --> 0:09:57.560 five or go to IFCJ dot org. Every dollar helps. 0:09:57.800 --> 0:10:00.480 Please don't wait be the difference? Is it I f 0:10:00.559 --> 0:10:03.480 TJ dot org or called a eight four a eight 0:10:03.640 --> 0:10:09.160 I s c J. Now did you get any apologies 0:10:09.200 --> 0:10:12.400 when the NASAR stuff came out? 0:10:13.960 --> 0:10:15.600 Now? What happened? 0:10:15.679 --> 0:10:18.200 And you know you don't find this sort of amusing 0:10:18.400 --> 0:10:20.760 is a lot Well, first of all, you know a 0:10:20.800 --> 0:10:24.600 lot of when when the NASA story was being broken, 0:10:24.720 --> 0:10:29.200 it was really not well known athletes that were doing it. 0:10:29.200 --> 0:10:32.080 It wasn't the simobiles and the alley raisements of the world, 0:10:32.720 --> 0:10:35.959 and they were just dragged across the internet. I mean, 0:10:36.000 --> 0:10:36.760 these young women. 0:10:36.800 --> 0:10:38.440 I watched it. I'm fuld on social media. 0:10:38.440 --> 0:10:40.280 I knew it was coming because I've been speaking with 0:10:40.360 --> 0:10:43.720 the journalists who were breaking the story and they you know, 0:10:43.840 --> 0:10:47.959 all the typical tropes you hear, the accusations of sexual 0:10:48.000 --> 0:10:50.680 assault survivor. You know, she was a slut, it was 0:10:50.880 --> 0:10:55.120 what what was she wearing? Kind of criticism. You know, 0:10:55.200 --> 0:10:58.679 these are not reliable narrators, These are terrible women. She 0:10:58.760 --> 0:11:01.920 wasn't a good gymnast, like all this stupid stuff. And 0:11:01.960 --> 0:11:05.040 then within a week or two weeks there were fifty 0:11:05.120 --> 0:11:07.640 credible claims and it kept growing, so then it became 0:11:07.679 --> 0:11:12.240 too big to ignore. But a lot of the young 0:11:12.240 --> 0:11:14.560 women who supported that you didn't even know who I 0:11:14.600 --> 0:11:18.600 was from ten years earlier. But the ones who had 0:11:19.240 --> 0:11:22.120 really tried to kind of take me down for saying 0:11:22.280 --> 0:11:25.120 they just pretended overnight they'd always supported me. I mean, 0:11:25.160 --> 0:11:29.079 it was just like total amnesia, no apologies. 0:11:29.440 --> 0:11:34.240 That kind of leads us too. Oh my god, Simone Biles, 0:11:34.520 --> 0:11:39.320 I'm you know, need more coffee. But anyways kind of 0:11:39.600 --> 0:11:45.280 gets to her, you know, with this latest attack against 0:11:45.360 --> 0:11:48.880 Riley Gaines, who we all know and I know you know, 0:11:49.000 --> 0:11:51.959 and she's been a part of your company as well 0:11:52.960 --> 0:11:56.880 and protecting women's sports, and so she went after Riley 0:11:56.960 --> 0:11:59.120 even made it personal, like basically said she looked like 0:11:59.160 --> 0:12:02.280 a dude. Yeah, called her a bully for trying to 0:12:02.280 --> 0:12:05.040 stand up for women, you know, so that basically we 0:12:05.080 --> 0:12:07.599 should be standing up for these men and women's sports. 0:12:08.600 --> 0:12:13.200 Why do you think she decided to attack Riley and like, 0:12:13.679 --> 0:12:16.040 you know, why not protect women's sports. 0:12:16.679 --> 0:12:21.800 Yeah, it's a conundrum. I gotta say, No one can 0:12:21.800 --> 0:12:24.440 figure it out. She doesn't really post on Twitter much 0:12:24.440 --> 0:12:26.680 and yet she went on his chair against Riley. 0:12:26.800 --> 0:12:27.600 It's unusual. 0:12:27.640 --> 0:12:29.760 A lot of people are speculating it wasn't her, but 0:12:29.800 --> 0:12:33.400 at this point she's not disavaliant. In fact, she's retweeted herself. 0:12:33.480 --> 0:12:35.800 So I think she stands by it. You know, I 0:12:35.800 --> 0:12:39.240 would go back to the mindset of a young gymnast, 0:12:40.280 --> 0:12:45.319 which is that of an approval seeker. And I think 0:12:45.400 --> 0:12:49.200 in her circles this you know, in ours, she got dragged, 0:12:49.280 --> 0:12:52.160 but in her own circle, I think she's gotten tons 0:12:52.160 --> 0:12:55.720 of you know, applause. If you look in you know, 0:12:55.840 --> 0:13:00.800 gymnastics circles, people are cheering for her and they're hoping 0:13:00.840 --> 0:13:05.160 she does me next. So, you know, I think it 0:13:05.200 --> 0:13:09.720 was an approval seeking tactic, and I think she didn't 0:13:09.720 --> 0:13:10.679 think about it much. 0:13:10.760 --> 0:13:12.360 I think it was impetuous and I. 0:13:12.280 --> 0:13:15.000 Think she everyone she knows agrees with her, and so 0:13:15.559 --> 0:13:20.280 she was probably surprised by the backlash. 0:13:20.320 --> 0:13:22.520 I think what'sonic. 0:13:22.640 --> 0:13:26.040 There's several things ironic about it is, you know, she's 0:13:26.080 --> 0:13:30.640 been this champion of body positivity and yet, as you mentioned, 0:13:31.080 --> 0:13:35.720 she body shamed Riley for looking manly because she's muscular, 0:13:35.840 --> 0:13:41.040 which is, you know, absurd. Who's more muscular than Amone Biles. 0:13:42.920 --> 0:13:46.199 Riley is a totally normal sized woman for an actual woman. 0:13:46.760 --> 0:13:50.000 She's small as a swimmer. So that was just ridiculous 0:13:50.000 --> 0:13:52.040 and mean spirited. I mean, the whole thing was me 0:13:52.080 --> 0:13:53.720 and spirited, mean spirited. 0:13:54.240 --> 0:13:57.360 It's also at odds with the brand that she represents, Athleta, 0:13:57.840 --> 0:14:00.280 whose tagline is the Power of She and all they 0:14:00.320 --> 0:14:03.640 do is talk about empowering women and body positivity. So, 0:14:03.920 --> 0:14:06.079 you know, direct conflict with Athleta. 0:14:08.720 --> 0:14:11.160 It just it's puzzling. She could have said nothing. 0:14:10.880 --> 0:14:14.559 But it also showed very little understanding of the conflict 0:14:14.640 --> 0:14:19.200 within this you know movement, because she suggested that Riley 0:14:19.320 --> 0:14:25.680 advocate for a third category the quote unquote trans advocates 0:14:25.720 --> 0:14:28.560 the trans people. They don't want a third category. They've 0:14:28.600 --> 0:14:31.720 rejected it. USA Swimming tried it, no one signed up. 0:14:32.080 --> 0:14:36.640 They insist on being validated as actual women. They insist 0:14:36.720 --> 0:14:41.040 on invading our sports in our spaces, So her recommendation 0:14:41.440 --> 0:14:44.880 is actually considered quote unquote transphobic. 0:14:44.960 --> 0:14:48.200 By the activist class. So you know, her post also 0:14:48.440 --> 0:14:50.000 showed that she doesn't. 0:14:49.680 --> 0:14:52.800 Really know very much about this debate and this conflict, 0:14:52.840 --> 0:14:56.600 which Riley obviously doesn't and I do as well. So 0:14:56.680 --> 0:15:01.280 the whole thing was just it was like an unprovoked, 0:15:01.600 --> 0:15:04.200 unforced error. She didn't need to say anything. I mean, 0:15:04.240 --> 0:15:06.400 I wish she'd say something and she'd be on our side. 0:15:06.400 --> 0:15:08.360 And you know, people have dug up all tweets at 0:15:08.360 --> 0:15:10.880 this point showing that she does actually understand that men 0:15:10.920 --> 0:15:11.800 and women are different. 0:15:11.840 --> 0:15:12.800 And I know people in. 0:15:12.760 --> 0:15:15.560 Her circle that know her who are scratching their heads 0:15:15.560 --> 0:15:17.200 about this as well. 0:15:17.480 --> 0:15:18.680 Is she tweet out pro I think it was like 0:15:18.680 --> 0:15:22.160 twenty seventeen or something, some tweet about how like good 0:15:22.160 --> 0:15:24.280 thing men don't play against us, we would lose our 0:15:24.400 --> 0:15:26.840 you know, So it's like, clearly she's just like we'd 0:15:26.880 --> 0:15:29.760 lose all over metal. So clearly, you know, she understands 0:15:29.760 --> 0:15:31.800 that men and women are built differently. To your point, 0:15:32.480 --> 0:15:34.080 and I get your point, and I think it's a 0:15:34.120 --> 0:15:38.480 good one that maybe in her you know, immediate circle, 0:15:38.760 --> 0:15:40.840 like it's a pat on the back, you know, like 0:15:41.120 --> 0:15:45.920 you're so brave whatever, whatever. But that being said, bigger picture, 0:15:46.160 --> 0:15:49.880 with the majority of Americans, they're with us on this issue. 0:15:50.000 --> 0:15:52.400 And even if you look at liberal states like California, 0:15:52.440 --> 0:15:54.800 there was a twenty twenty five pole by the non 0:15:54.800 --> 0:15:58.280 partisan Public Policy Institute of California finding that found that 0:15:58.320 --> 0:16:03.000 sixty five percent of likely Californy voters support requiring athletes 0:16:03.040 --> 0:16:07.040 to compete based off of their biological sex rather than gender. 0:16:07.200 --> 0:16:09.880 And this is a liberal state of California where sixty 0:16:09.920 --> 0:16:13.280 five percent of voters agree with what we're talking about. 0:16:13.880 --> 0:16:16.600 And obviously California has you know, been a point of 0:16:16.680 --> 0:16:20.200 controversy with Aby Hernandez, a sixteen year old man competing 0:16:20.200 --> 0:16:23.080 in track and field, the spark title my investigation by 0:16:23.360 --> 0:16:26.240 the Department of Justice, you know, et cetera, et cetera. 0:16:26.320 --> 0:16:30.040 But like she's going against an issue where even in 0:16:30.160 --> 0:16:33.520 liberal states the majority of Americans are on her side. 0:16:34.320 --> 0:16:38.000 She is I doubt she knew that going in, Like 0:16:38.080 --> 0:16:40.360 I said, she clearly was not well burst in the 0:16:40.400 --> 0:16:45.880 issue and the sort of you know, the conflict and 0:16:44.960 --> 0:16:47.440 the data, I mean. 0:16:47.280 --> 0:16:48.560 I don't think she knew any of it. 0:16:48.680 --> 0:16:52.560 She just it was a very impetuous thing to curry 0:16:52.600 --> 0:16:55.360 favor with her fans, and she got it from her brands. 0:16:55.440 --> 0:17:00.720 There's a lot of you know, go girl type clapping 0:17:01.120 --> 0:17:04.480 from her fans. I just don't think she anticipated or 0:17:04.600 --> 0:17:09.160 even knew that the vast majority of Americans agree with us. 0:17:09.200 --> 0:17:13.320 She had no idea. I don't think she's I mean, 0:17:13.400 --> 0:17:13.719 I'm not. 0:17:13.920 --> 0:17:16.800 Look, you grew up an athlete and you're training five, six, 0:17:16.840 --> 0:17:17.680 seven hours a day. 0:17:17.680 --> 0:17:20.680 You're not reading the newspaper. I just don't think. 0:17:20.520 --> 0:17:26.040 She's probably well versed in the issue at all. She 0:17:26.080 --> 0:17:30.040 clearly isn't, and I don't think she anticipated it. 0:17:29.920 --> 0:17:32.200 It was it was a dumb move. And I will 0:17:32.240 --> 0:17:33.119 say this one other thing. 0:17:33.160 --> 0:17:35.040 I will say, though, despite the fact that eighty percent 0:17:35.080 --> 0:17:37.080 of Americans agree with us, it's you know, close to 0:17:37.119 --> 0:17:40.280 seventy percent of even Democrats, it doesn't feel like it 0:17:40.320 --> 0:17:41.920 at least that when you're out here talking about it, 0:17:41.920 --> 0:17:44.560 because the vast majority are still silent because of how 0:17:44.880 --> 0:17:47.920 punitive the minority is and how bullying they are. And 0:17:48.080 --> 0:17:50.480 you know, the other side kind of owns the legacy 0:17:50.560 --> 0:17:53.040 media and they own the major institutions, and they own 0:17:53.080 --> 0:17:55.320 the sport governing bodies and the universities. 0:17:55.359 --> 0:17:57.640 And so it's easy to think. 0:17:57.440 --> 0:18:00.520 That our position is the minority position, and when it 0:18:00.600 --> 0:18:03.200 is not. Because so many people don't say anything. 0:18:03.000 --> 0:18:05.080 You've got to take a quick break. More at Jennifer 0:18:05.080 --> 0:18:12.520 on the other side. One thing that frustrates me is like, 0:18:12.560 --> 0:18:16.400 there's a danger here, right. We've already seen athletes get injured. 0:18:17.000 --> 0:18:20.840 We just saw Peyton McNabb, who attended President Trump's joint 0:18:20.840 --> 0:18:24.240 address to Congress, who suffered major injuries, injuries as a 0:18:24.280 --> 0:18:28.320 volleyball player. We saw, you know, a Massachusetts player had 0:18:28.520 --> 0:18:30.479 her teeth knocked out. A field hockey player had her 0:18:30.480 --> 0:18:32.800 teeth knocked out. I mean, I played field hockey, lacrosse 0:18:32.840 --> 0:18:34.520 in high school. You know, I was on the Olympic 0:18:34.920 --> 0:18:37.199 development program for field hockey, and I mean I've been 0:18:37.280 --> 0:18:39.480 hitting the hall the head before the field hockey bault. 0:18:39.800 --> 0:18:42.240 One time it knocked me to my knees. That's how 0:18:42.240 --> 0:18:45.040 hard I got hit. So I can't imagine at you know, 0:18:45.080 --> 0:18:47.560 any sort of increased force at the hands of a man. 0:18:47.720 --> 0:18:50.760 So I think one thing that frustrates me is like, 0:18:50.840 --> 0:18:55.159 there's no not as much conversation about the danger and 0:18:55.240 --> 0:18:59.600 putting men out there, you know, or even you look 0:18:59.640 --> 0:19:02.720 at this Champlain Park, you know, winning the Minnesota State 0:19:03.480 --> 0:19:06.600 High school softball championship with a male pitcher. I mean 0:19:06.640 --> 0:19:08.760 like if he hit a woman, that's going to do 0:19:08.800 --> 0:19:10.840 a lot more damage than if you get hit by 0:19:10.920 --> 0:19:12.440 you know, another woman. So I mean, what do you 0:19:12.480 --> 0:19:16.080 make about that in terms of just inherent danger that 0:19:16.160 --> 0:19:17.240 this is presenting women? 0:19:18.240 --> 0:19:18.919 Yeah, I mean. 0:19:18.760 --> 0:19:22.040 There's absolutely danger, not just in full uh you know, 0:19:22.080 --> 0:19:24.840 in combat sports, which is ridiculous. You know, like we 0:19:24.920 --> 0:19:27.440 saw at the Olympics over the summer with a monic leef. 0:19:28.119 --> 0:19:30.680 You know, results of that sexcess thing have now been 0:19:30.720 --> 0:19:32.960 made public. He is, in fact a man, as we 0:19:33.000 --> 0:19:36.840 knew all along that he's not trans I understand that. 0:19:36.920 --> 0:19:38.800 But the same issue as at play, and then a 0:19:38.880 --> 0:19:41.400 male was competing on. 0:19:41.240 --> 0:19:42.720 The biggest stage. 0:19:42.400 --> 0:19:46.480 In sports, and so the championship the gold model from 0:19:46.520 --> 0:19:51.280 a woman. That's incredibly dangerous obviously in a combat sport. 0:19:51.320 --> 0:19:53.919 And then you have contact sports like what you're describing, 0:19:54.040 --> 0:19:58.720 whether it's you know, volleyball, even soccer is high contact basketball, 0:19:58.760 --> 0:20:02.199 it is incredibly danger Durissmen are bigger and stronger, and 0:20:02.240 --> 0:20:04.800 I really am terrified that. 0:20:04.800 --> 0:20:07.840 What is going to end this or put us on 0:20:07.920 --> 0:20:08.640 a different. 0:20:08.359 --> 0:20:11.880 Path at least is a very serious injury to a woman. Now, 0:20:11.880 --> 0:20:14.639 these injuries are brushed off, you know, they even brush 0:20:14.640 --> 0:20:18.840 off Peyton's injury, which is a permanent. 0:20:20.680 --> 0:20:24.359 Brain damage. I mean, she cannot participate in sports in college, 0:20:24.640 --> 0:20:28.080 she has trouble with memory, she has all kinds of 0:20:28.119 --> 0:20:30.919 cognitive challenges that she didn't have before the injury. But 0:20:30.960 --> 0:20:33.600 of course they brush it off as well. Sports are dangerous. 0:20:33.760 --> 0:20:35.400 They are dangerous, but we have. 0:20:35.359 --> 0:20:38.720 An obligation, the governing bodies have an obligation to make 0:20:38.760 --> 0:20:41.480 them as safe as is possible because there is already 0:20:41.520 --> 0:20:44.320