1 00:00:08,920 --> 00:00:13,320 Speaker 1: This is the Meat Eater Podcast coming at you shirtless, severely, 2 00:00:13,480 --> 00:00:18,599 Speaker 1: bug bitten, and in my case, underwear listeningcast. You can't 3 00:00:18,600 --> 00:00:22,080 Speaker 1: predict anything. The Meat Eater Podcast is brought to you 4 00:00:22,079 --> 00:00:25,520 Speaker 1: by First Light. Whether you're checking trail cams, hanging deer stands, 5 00:00:25,600 --> 00:00:28,880 Speaker 1: or scouting for el First Light has performance apparel to 6 00:00:28,920 --> 00:00:31,960 Speaker 1: support every hunter in every environment. Check it out at 7 00:00:32,000 --> 00:00:35,199 Speaker 1: first Light dot com, f I R S T L 8 00:00:35,320 --> 00:00:39,720 Speaker 1: I t E dot com. Chrin. You know how a 9 00:00:39,720 --> 00:00:41,440 Speaker 1: lot of times we come up with what the show 10 00:00:41,520 --> 00:00:43,280 Speaker 1: is gonna be called, but then we forget and it's 11 00:00:43,320 --> 00:00:43,960 Speaker 1: called something. 12 00:00:43,760 --> 00:00:45,920 Speaker 2: Different that doesn't really happen. 13 00:00:46,920 --> 00:00:49,040 Speaker 1: I feel like it does. I feel like a lot 14 00:00:49,080 --> 00:00:50,800 Speaker 1: of times I'll be like, hey, let's call the show this, 15 00:00:50,920 --> 00:00:57,320 Speaker 1: and it winds up not being called that. Okay, pind 16 00:00:57,400 --> 00:01:02,120 Speaker 1: Titty should be this episode. No one's gonna know why 17 00:01:02,440 --> 00:01:07,800 Speaker 1: for now, but later they'll know. Okay, Tommy knows what 18 00:01:07,800 --> 00:01:09,720 Speaker 1: I'm talking about. I know exactly what you're talking about. 19 00:01:09,720 --> 00:01:12,360 Speaker 1: Tommy knows exactly what I'm talking about. Joey. We're recording 20 00:01:12,360 --> 00:01:15,680 Speaker 1: today from the Flagship First Light store in Haley, Idaho. 21 00:01:15,880 --> 00:01:18,120 Speaker 1: What is that, you might ask, It's the flagship First 22 00:01:18,200 --> 00:01:21,800 Speaker 1: Light Store in Haley, Idaho. If you want to find 23 00:01:21,840 --> 00:01:25,000 Speaker 1: the best hunting gear on the planet, you come into 24 00:01:25,000 --> 00:01:27,640 Speaker 1: this store and get it. And to give you a 25 00:01:27,720 --> 00:01:32,120 Speaker 1: real virtual experience of what it's like we have today. 26 00:01:33,000 --> 00:01:39,000 Speaker 1: Keith and Spa should be a spatch ye, but it's not. 27 00:01:39,880 --> 00:01:41,320 Speaker 3: We all agree it's an. 28 00:01:41,160 --> 00:01:44,080 Speaker 1: Spa and Dom Cooper and between you guys, can you 29 00:01:44,120 --> 00:01:47,880 Speaker 1: quickly calculate someone walks in the door, what's the likelihood 30 00:01:47,880 --> 00:01:49,600 Speaker 1: they'll encounter one or both of you? 31 00:01:50,920 --> 00:01:55,120 Speaker 4: I would say seventy. I've live in here, so probably 32 00:01:55,120 --> 00:01:57,680 Speaker 4: even more than that. Tom's in here a lot though. 33 00:01:57,560 --> 00:02:01,560 Speaker 1: So there's like a likely that you would come in 34 00:02:01,720 --> 00:02:04,880 Speaker 1: and they would find you, guys, So after this they'll 35 00:02:04,920 --> 00:02:07,480 Speaker 1: be comfortable coming in knowing who they're looking for. 36 00:02:07,680 --> 00:02:09,519 Speaker 4: Just give me a high five. I'm here every day. 37 00:02:09,720 --> 00:02:15,320 Speaker 1: Okay. Now you'll know because one of them has an 38 00:02:15,400 --> 00:02:16,680 Speaker 1: insane mullet. 39 00:02:18,120 --> 00:02:19,720 Speaker 4: I've been working on it in a while, man. 40 00:02:19,800 --> 00:02:24,040 Speaker 1: And one of them's Australian. Sure and get it out. 41 00:02:24,440 --> 00:02:27,200 Speaker 1: So you know we've had we had another Australian on recently. 42 00:02:28,000 --> 00:02:32,320 Speaker 1: You guys have been making a strong showing Yep, we're 43 00:02:32,320 --> 00:02:38,000 Speaker 1: an interesting braid of people. Great this other Australian is 44 00:02:38,040 --> 00:02:42,880 Speaker 1: a pH in Africa and and you're here, and so 45 00:02:42,960 --> 00:02:45,400 Speaker 1: we're catching them as they kind of get spun off 46 00:02:46,080 --> 00:02:51,440 Speaker 1: into the broader outside world. Also joined by Tommy Edson, 47 00:02:53,600 --> 00:02:57,160 Speaker 1: known as the blue collar scholar, always bragging up how 48 00:02:57,200 --> 00:03:01,080 Speaker 1: good he does? I meet you? To trivia? He came 49 00:03:01,120 --> 00:03:04,840 Speaker 1: down lost. 50 00:03:05,000 --> 00:03:07,919 Speaker 2: Then the pause gate scandal broke. 51 00:03:08,840 --> 00:03:09,240 Speaker 1: What was that? 52 00:03:09,360 --> 00:03:11,840 Speaker 2: Blue collar pause is my new nickname at work? 53 00:03:12,440 --> 00:03:15,680 Speaker 1: Oh and then we caught when that Yeah that he 54 00:03:17,440 --> 00:03:20,120 Speaker 1: what The reason he performs well in private is he 55 00:03:20,160 --> 00:03:21,120 Speaker 1: pauses the show. 56 00:03:24,120 --> 00:03:26,160 Speaker 2: I'm gonna let you finish. Go ahead, Well, oh you 57 00:03:26,160 --> 00:03:26,560 Speaker 2: want me to go? 58 00:03:26,960 --> 00:03:30,640 Speaker 1: Yeah? You pause, think about it longer, which is like 59 00:03:31,560 --> 00:03:33,519 Speaker 1: if I could like pause it for a couple of days, 60 00:03:33,720 --> 00:03:35,720 Speaker 1: a couple of days and like be like. 61 00:03:36,080 --> 00:03:38,640 Speaker 2: It's actually yeah. It was more like, you know, for 62 00:03:38,840 --> 00:03:39,440 Speaker 2: four days. 63 00:03:39,240 --> 00:03:41,000 Speaker 1: Do you ever do a little research while it's paused? 64 00:03:41,120 --> 00:03:44,440 Speaker 5: No, I'm I'm working a high play in a fast 65 00:03:44,480 --> 00:03:47,840 Speaker 5: placed environment. And I was like, but at the same time, 66 00:03:48,400 --> 00:03:51,680 Speaker 5: I could pause the game, continue with my job while 67 00:03:51,680 --> 00:03:56,080 Speaker 5: I was communicating with somebody at work and not miss 68 00:03:56,200 --> 00:03:58,640 Speaker 5: like I didn't know. There's times where I don't have 69 00:03:58,680 --> 00:04:00,720 Speaker 5: time to stop even for the five seconds and write 70 00:04:00,760 --> 00:04:05,560 Speaker 5: my answer down. So it's like and so, but then 71 00:04:05,600 --> 00:04:07,600 Speaker 5: it does, Dick. I got to thinking about it and 72 00:04:07,640 --> 00:04:09,480 Speaker 5: it gave me a little bit. I thought, does it 73 00:04:09,480 --> 00:04:12,360 Speaker 5: give me a combetitive advantage? And so then I said 74 00:04:12,400 --> 00:04:14,920 Speaker 5: something to Joey, one of the guys on the Rodeo team, 75 00:04:15,000 --> 00:04:15,760 Speaker 5: and I even. 76 00:04:15,520 --> 00:04:18,960 Speaker 2: Texted you and You're like, oh you cheater. 77 00:04:19,560 --> 00:04:28,240 Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, So Tommy, here here's why we're gonna name 78 00:04:28,320 --> 00:04:32,400 Speaker 1: here's why the show's gonna called high and titty Tommy. Recently, Doug, 79 00:04:32,480 --> 00:04:35,800 Speaker 1: my buddy Bubbly Doug Durren sends me a screenshot of 80 00:04:35,839 --> 00:04:39,240 Speaker 1: an exchange he has a Tommy Tommy has this to 81 00:04:39,320 --> 00:04:42,599 Speaker 1: say to Doug. Quick cow question. If you're milking a 82 00:04:42,640 --> 00:04:46,200 Speaker 1: cow and it's a race, which utter or nipple are 83 00:04:46,200 --> 00:04:49,679 Speaker 1: you going for? Is there something in particular I should 84 00:04:49,680 --> 00:04:54,200 Speaker 1: be looking for in an utter? We're gonna dive into 85 00:04:54,200 --> 00:04:58,359 Speaker 1: all that. Let's do because in due time, because I've 86 00:04:58,440 --> 00:05:00,560 Speaker 1: pointed out a couple of times, we talked about a lot. 87 00:05:01,279 --> 00:05:02,800 Speaker 1: You know, we came out with the shirt. We came 88 00:05:02,800 --> 00:05:06,120 Speaker 1: out with the wild Cow Milker t shirt. Correct, because 89 00:05:06,880 --> 00:05:09,600 Speaker 1: we dug deep here. We take our art, you know, 90 00:05:09,640 --> 00:05:12,320 Speaker 1: we take our spending. Seriously, we dug deep and sponsored 91 00:05:12,400 --> 00:05:15,000 Speaker 1: Tommy's wild Cow Milk and rodeo team for three hundred 92 00:05:15,040 --> 00:05:18,120 Speaker 1: bucks and he sent me in. I shouldn't say this 93 00:05:18,120 --> 00:05:20,600 Speaker 1: because people are gonna start pilfering my mailbox. 94 00:05:20,760 --> 00:05:22,920 Speaker 2: I wouldn't say it. You could, well, you could. 95 00:05:22,800 --> 00:05:27,240 Speaker 1: Say, Tommy sent me the winnings in cash rolled up 96 00:05:27,240 --> 00:05:27,880 Speaker 1: in a paper, and. 97 00:05:28,200 --> 00:05:28,680 Speaker 3: You do that. 98 00:05:28,920 --> 00:05:29,640 Speaker 2: You shouldn't do that. 99 00:05:30,000 --> 00:05:32,440 Speaker 1: No, that's fine. So now they're just sitting on my 100 00:05:32,520 --> 00:05:34,960 Speaker 1: desk like an envelope of cash that I need to 101 00:05:35,000 --> 00:05:38,200 Speaker 1: go and find some way to integrate into. I'm gonna 102 00:05:38,200 --> 00:05:39,120 Speaker 1: hand it off to somebody. 103 00:05:39,160 --> 00:05:39,560 Speaker 2: I figured. 104 00:05:39,760 --> 00:05:41,760 Speaker 1: That's why I like it, because I like to feel that. 105 00:05:41,960 --> 00:05:42,159 Speaker 3: Man. 106 00:05:42,320 --> 00:05:45,000 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, it's a good feeling. 107 00:05:45,000 --> 00:05:46,960 Speaker 5: When that judge hands you that water cash. You're like, 108 00:05:47,640 --> 00:05:48,800 Speaker 5: there's a picture somewhere in me. 109 00:05:49,920 --> 00:05:52,560 Speaker 1: Yeah. Hobby tournaments you guys done. 110 00:05:53,600 --> 00:05:57,760 Speaker 5: That would be, uh the third one I think to 111 00:05:58,040 --> 00:05:59,040 Speaker 5: this is our second year. 112 00:05:59,480 --> 00:06:02,080 Speaker 1: No, no, no, no, I mean how many uh, how 113 00:06:02,160 --> 00:06:04,320 Speaker 1: many rodeos you participated in so far this year? 114 00:06:04,520 --> 00:06:07,040 Speaker 5: I think that's the third one. Oh, this this year? 115 00:06:07,320 --> 00:06:09,159 Speaker 5: That's holdly, we only do two a year? You do 116 00:06:09,200 --> 00:06:12,480 Speaker 5: two a year. When's the next one September. Oh that 117 00:06:12,480 --> 00:06:13,240 Speaker 5: I knew there was more. 118 00:06:13,160 --> 00:06:16,400 Speaker 1: To come, all right, So we got we recoup some 119 00:06:16,440 --> 00:06:17,840 Speaker 1: of our money and the money is going into the 120 00:06:17,920 --> 00:06:21,480 Speaker 1: Land Access Initiative, Media's Land Access Initiative, which we need 121 00:06:21,480 --> 00:06:23,160 Speaker 1: to do. We need to We're gonna get heavy duty 122 00:06:23,160 --> 00:06:25,880 Speaker 1: on raising some money for that initiative coming up. So 123 00:06:25,920 --> 00:06:27,320 Speaker 1: we're gonna get into what because we had a lot 124 00:06:27,320 --> 00:06:29,480 Speaker 1: of questions. A lot of questions came in about I 125 00:06:29,480 --> 00:06:32,640 Speaker 1: don't understand how that's a thing. What wild cow milking, 126 00:06:32,800 --> 00:06:35,440 Speaker 1: wild cow milking and rodeos. Oh, I mean people kind 127 00:06:35,440 --> 00:06:37,039 Speaker 1: of get it like bull ride and they're like, yeah, 128 00:06:37,240 --> 00:06:41,239 Speaker 1: I've been exposed to that. That resonates with me. Team 129 00:06:41,360 --> 00:06:45,240 Speaker 1: roping people will be like I've seen that around right, 130 00:06:45,440 --> 00:06:47,479 Speaker 1: wild cow milking, they don't know what you're talking about. 131 00:06:47,640 --> 00:06:47,839 Speaker 2: Right. 132 00:06:47,960 --> 00:06:49,919 Speaker 5: It's like most rodeo events like have a they have 133 00:06:50,000 --> 00:06:53,360 Speaker 5: a where they originated. You know, you have like tie 134 00:06:53,360 --> 00:06:57,120 Speaker 5: down roping, calf roping where you tie down your calf 135 00:06:57,600 --> 00:06:59,440 Speaker 5: and you got to go back to your saddle bags 136 00:06:59,440 --> 00:07:02,640 Speaker 5: and grab your whatever. Shots go up give, but you 137 00:07:02,680 --> 00:07:04,400 Speaker 5: had to make sure he was stay tied. That's why 138 00:07:04,440 --> 00:07:06,560 Speaker 5: the time is set for I think it's five or 139 00:07:06,600 --> 00:07:08,520 Speaker 5: six seconds. You cow's gotta stay tied while he's down. 140 00:07:08,720 --> 00:07:11,480 Speaker 5: All these events have like beginnings. 141 00:07:11,120 --> 00:07:13,280 Speaker 2: Like where they begin from. No, we'll get into the history. 142 00:07:13,360 --> 00:07:16,040 Speaker 1: We're gonna do that pretty soon, and then we're gonna 143 00:07:16,080 --> 00:07:18,640 Speaker 1: get We're also joining us here in the in the 144 00:07:18,640 --> 00:07:21,880 Speaker 1: first light store is zeb Hogan. I have two ways 145 00:07:21,880 --> 00:07:26,559 Speaker 1: to describe you, and they seem contradictory. One is host 146 00:07:26,600 --> 00:07:33,160 Speaker 1: of nat Geo's Monster Fish Show or the United Nations 147 00:07:33,200 --> 00:07:39,480 Speaker 1: Convention on Migratory Species Scientific counselor for fish just seems different. 148 00:07:40,800 --> 00:07:43,680 Speaker 1: I would lean into the latter one because it sounds like, 149 00:07:44,440 --> 00:07:46,000 Speaker 1: really the guy you'd want to talk to you if 150 00:07:46,000 --> 00:07:49,440 Speaker 1: you want to talk about fish. And then you're also 151 00:07:49,600 --> 00:07:52,640 Speaker 1: author of Chasing Giants in Search of the World's Largest 152 00:07:52,640 --> 00:07:55,640 Speaker 1: Freshwater Fish, which is available now. 153 00:07:56,120 --> 00:07:58,560 Speaker 3: Correct published last month, Yeah, polish. 154 00:07:58,320 --> 00:08:01,360 Speaker 1: Last month and in it and I watched some things 155 00:08:01,440 --> 00:08:04,560 Speaker 1: Krinn sent me, And what what really hooked me on 156 00:08:04,720 --> 00:08:11,640 Speaker 1: talking to you is the question of how. Why is 157 00:08:11,680 --> 00:08:15,760 Speaker 1: the question what is the big what is the biggest large? Sorry, 158 00:08:16,960 --> 00:08:22,119 Speaker 1: the question what is the world's largest freshwater fish? Why? 159 00:08:23,040 --> 00:08:27,160 Speaker 1: It takes a book to not quite answer that question. 160 00:08:28,200 --> 00:08:30,440 Speaker 1: It's a rich question, and we're gonna get in a 161 00:08:30,480 --> 00:08:34,080 Speaker 1: little bit into the richness of that question, which is 162 00:08:34,360 --> 00:08:42,120 Speaker 1: definitions stacked on top of definitions, and also a a 163 00:08:42,920 --> 00:08:45,079 Speaker 1: kind of a that that a lot of the the 164 00:08:45,160 --> 00:08:47,760 Speaker 1: a lot of these fish that might be contenders are 165 00:08:47,800 --> 00:08:52,440 Speaker 1: in an alarming state population wise. Yeah, it seems like 166 00:08:52,440 --> 00:08:58,640 Speaker 1: the modern world is not friendly to huge freshwater fish. 167 00:08:58,760 --> 00:09:01,160 Speaker 1: So we're gonna spend time on that. But first off, 168 00:09:01,520 --> 00:09:05,079 Speaker 1: I want to jump back into what happens when you 169 00:09:05,120 --> 00:09:06,880 Speaker 1: walk into the first Light store. So what happens when 170 00:09:06,920 --> 00:09:09,120 Speaker 1: you walk into the first Light Store? I come in 171 00:09:09,200 --> 00:09:13,520 Speaker 1: and I say Hi, Then what will happen? 172 00:09:14,840 --> 00:09:15,040 Speaker 3: Man? 173 00:09:15,200 --> 00:09:17,560 Speaker 4: The First Light Store is such an experience. The first 174 00:09:17,600 --> 00:09:19,600 Speaker 4: thing I usually want to let people do is just 175 00:09:20,240 --> 00:09:22,760 Speaker 4: kind of take a grasp what they're walking into. It's 176 00:09:22,800 --> 00:09:25,880 Speaker 4: really cool. You get the whole first line product. Not 177 00:09:26,000 --> 00:09:28,000 Speaker 4: anywhere in the world where you can see this. So 178 00:09:28,080 --> 00:09:30,280 Speaker 4: when you walk in here, we've got a huge line. 179 00:09:30,360 --> 00:09:32,600 Speaker 4: Even the First Light employees walk in, They're like, I 180 00:09:32,600 --> 00:09:34,240 Speaker 4: didn't know we sold this much stuff? 181 00:09:34,360 --> 00:09:36,880 Speaker 1: Oh boy? Yeah, everybody I've been in here with it's like, God, 182 00:09:36,880 --> 00:09:40,880 Speaker 1: I didn't know that this was all here. 183 00:09:41,400 --> 00:09:45,520 Speaker 4: Yeah, it's unbelievable. Between the waterfowl, the ladies line, all 184 00:09:45,520 --> 00:09:48,760 Speaker 4: our Western big game, huge amount of product we can 185 00:09:48,920 --> 00:09:51,960 Speaker 4: point a customer towards. So it's really cool. What I 186 00:09:52,080 --> 00:09:54,880 Speaker 4: really like at the store is the ability to like 187 00:09:55,160 --> 00:09:58,640 Speaker 4: see that customer, talk to the customer, and like figure 188 00:09:58,679 --> 00:10:00,400 Speaker 4: out what they want to do in the world. Like, 189 00:10:00,840 --> 00:10:02,640 Speaker 4: we've got a ton of people that are just doing 190 00:10:02,800 --> 00:10:05,000 Speaker 4: elk hunts and Idaho, but then we get We've had 191 00:10:05,040 --> 00:10:07,320 Speaker 4: people from every state in the country at this stage. 192 00:10:07,440 --> 00:10:09,600 Speaker 3: Oh really yeah cool, So it's really cool. 193 00:10:09,720 --> 00:10:11,880 Speaker 4: You know, we help out people that are doing their 194 00:10:11,880 --> 00:10:14,679 Speaker 4: first Africa trips. We've got people going down to Mexico 195 00:10:14,720 --> 00:10:18,440 Speaker 4: for mule deer. We've got all the sorts of waterfowl hunters, 196 00:10:18,559 --> 00:10:21,000 Speaker 4: bear hunters this spring, We're all over in the store. 197 00:10:21,480 --> 00:10:24,160 Speaker 4: So I just it's really cool to live vicariously through 198 00:10:24,200 --> 00:10:26,959 Speaker 4: them and see what they're wanting to do and then 199 00:10:27,000 --> 00:10:30,040 Speaker 4: to dial in what gear exactly they want. Super fun. 200 00:10:30,360 --> 00:10:32,240 Speaker 1: Yeah where were you born? Where you brought up? 201 00:10:32,280 --> 00:10:34,520 Speaker 4: I was born in Colorado, but I've been an Idaho 202 00:10:34,600 --> 00:10:36,679 Speaker 4: boy now for most of my life. So I grew 203 00:10:36,760 --> 00:10:39,200 Speaker 4: up in Idaha Falls for the most part, went to 204 00:10:39,240 --> 00:10:42,280 Speaker 4: school up at University Idaho, up in Moscow, and I've 205 00:10:42,280 --> 00:10:45,040 Speaker 4: been in the Wood River Valley now for about eighteen years. 206 00:10:45,120 --> 00:10:45,960 Speaker 1: Oh, a long time. 207 00:10:46,040 --> 00:10:46,240 Speaker 3: Yeah. 208 00:10:46,280 --> 00:10:49,040 Speaker 4: I managed to store up and catch them a backpacking 209 00:10:49,080 --> 00:10:51,160 Speaker 4: store and outdoor store for a long time, just to 210 00:10:51,240 --> 00:10:54,120 Speaker 4: block away from the old First Light headquarters. So I 211 00:10:54,160 --> 00:10:56,079 Speaker 4: was there from the beginning with friends, with all of 212 00:10:56,120 --> 00:10:58,920 Speaker 4: that crew and watch the brand grow. And then when 213 00:10:58,960 --> 00:11:00,840 Speaker 4: they came up with the idea of that store, it 214 00:11:00,920 --> 00:11:03,040 Speaker 4: was something I could not say no to. It's too 215 00:11:03,080 --> 00:11:04,200 Speaker 4: cool not to work here. 216 00:11:04,679 --> 00:11:05,400 Speaker 2: Uh. 217 00:11:05,480 --> 00:11:07,040 Speaker 1: How many people come in and they don't really know 218 00:11:07,080 --> 00:11:08,720 Speaker 1: what they're walking into, and how many people come in 219 00:11:08,760 --> 00:11:09,680 Speaker 1: knowing what they're up to? 220 00:11:10,240 --> 00:11:12,400 Speaker 4: You know, I'd say a majority of the people come 221 00:11:12,440 --> 00:11:14,720 Speaker 4: to check out the store. This is a destination store. 222 00:11:14,800 --> 00:11:19,240 Speaker 4: People do trips around the store. So, but then we 223 00:11:19,559 --> 00:11:21,640 Speaker 4: definitely have people to walk in here and they do 224 00:11:21,760 --> 00:11:25,959 Speaker 4: like two or three steps and they there's a lot 225 00:11:26,000 --> 00:11:28,120 Speaker 4: of cameo in here, and you can see them just 226 00:11:28,160 --> 00:11:30,400 Speaker 4: do a reverse and walk out. It's just not the 227 00:11:30,440 --> 00:11:33,360 Speaker 4: right store for what you're looking for. Yeah, So but 228 00:11:33,559 --> 00:11:35,720 Speaker 4: the majority of people are so stoked to come check. 229 00:11:35,600 --> 00:11:36,079 Speaker 3: Out the store. 230 00:11:36,240 --> 00:11:39,400 Speaker 1: Yeah, And uh, Dom, walk me through. How did you 231 00:11:39,440 --> 00:11:44,240 Speaker 1: come to what's the like the Australia the Haley Path 232 00:11:44,440 --> 00:11:46,520 Speaker 1: to the typical Australia the Haley Path. 233 00:11:46,600 --> 00:11:46,760 Speaker 2: Yeah. 234 00:11:46,760 --> 00:11:49,720 Speaker 6: See, it was always an outdoors blug. But I came 235 00:11:49,720 --> 00:11:52,760 Speaker 6: over to America when I was fourteen and, uh, you know, 236 00:11:53,080 --> 00:11:56,000 Speaker 6: kid reading a little the Rourke in Hemingway, I thought, uh, 237 00:11:56,480 --> 00:11:58,679 Speaker 6: you know, I grew up fishing and hunting was the 238 00:11:58,720 --> 00:11:59,160 Speaker 6: next step? 239 00:11:59,240 --> 00:11:59,320 Speaker 3: Is? 240 00:11:59,320 --> 00:12:00,480 Speaker 2: It often is? 241 00:12:01,520 --> 00:12:03,679 Speaker 6: And I came over when I was fourteen and I 242 00:12:03,760 --> 00:12:07,080 Speaker 6: went on a pheasant hunt and a coyote hunt, and 243 00:12:07,120 --> 00:12:10,440 Speaker 6: it was probably the most miserable experience ever. Like you 244 00:12:10,480 --> 00:12:13,280 Speaker 6: came over as a visitor, it came over as a 245 00:12:13,520 --> 00:12:17,600 Speaker 6: visitor at the time. Yes, I had an old Model 246 00:12:17,640 --> 00:12:20,040 Speaker 6: twenty one sixteen gauge that someone lent me and I 247 00:12:20,040 --> 00:12:22,280 Speaker 6: went on peasant this pheasant hunt and there. 248 00:12:22,200 --> 00:12:23,240 Speaker 3: Was no dog or anything. 249 00:12:23,240 --> 00:12:26,960 Speaker 6: And it was on Blm Land in southern Idaho, and 250 00:12:27,200 --> 00:12:28,839 Speaker 6: I think we got one bird up all day and 251 00:12:28,880 --> 00:12:30,920 Speaker 6: I didn't have the gear, didn't have the gear at all, 252 00:12:31,040 --> 00:12:33,320 Speaker 6: and I actually had frost nip on my hands and 253 00:12:33,360 --> 00:12:35,440 Speaker 6: the one bird that flew up, I didn't even pull 254 00:12:35,480 --> 00:12:37,240 Speaker 6: the trigger on because I couldn't work the safety. 255 00:12:36,960 --> 00:12:38,240 Speaker 3: On that little Model twenty one. 256 00:12:39,240 --> 00:12:40,559 Speaker 6: And at the end of the day, I was like, man, 257 00:12:40,600 --> 00:12:45,040 Speaker 6: that's a miserable experience. But you know, going back to 258 00:12:45,400 --> 00:12:49,160 Speaker 6: guys like you know, Teddy Roosevelt talking about this strenuous life, 259 00:12:49,200 --> 00:12:50,880 Speaker 6: I was like, man, this really sucked, but I had 260 00:12:50,880 --> 00:12:51,440 Speaker 6: a lot of fun. 261 00:12:51,840 --> 00:12:54,320 Speaker 3: What is it in me that really enjoyed this? And 262 00:12:54,360 --> 00:12:55,240 Speaker 3: ever since then, I was. 263 00:12:55,200 --> 00:12:58,000 Speaker 6: Just absolutely obsessed. 264 00:12:57,480 --> 00:12:58,400 Speaker 3: With Western hunting. 265 00:12:59,320 --> 00:13:01,959 Speaker 6: So ever chance I got, every holiday, I'd come over 266 00:13:01,960 --> 00:13:04,760 Speaker 6: to Idaho and hunt. I nearly got kicked out of 267 00:13:04,800 --> 00:13:07,240 Speaker 6: college twice because I was trying to do that. 268 00:13:07,520 --> 00:13:09,199 Speaker 1: But were you hunting in Australia too? 269 00:13:09,320 --> 00:13:09,920 Speaker 3: A little bit? 270 00:13:10,600 --> 00:13:13,360 Speaker 6: So I'm from Queensland and there's you know, a lot 271 00:13:13,360 --> 00:13:16,720 Speaker 6: of Queenslanders and Australians listening to this. Know that Queensland 272 00:13:16,760 --> 00:13:19,640 Speaker 6: does not define any game species of our game, so 273 00:13:19,960 --> 00:13:21,439 Speaker 6: we have, you know, we have quite a quite a 274 00:13:21,520 --> 00:13:24,880 Speaker 6: robust population of red deer and fallow deer and shittle 275 00:13:24,960 --> 00:13:27,959 Speaker 6: deer and pigs. But they're not defined as game by 276 00:13:27,960 --> 00:13:30,800 Speaker 6: the state. They're defined as pests. So it's a lot 277 00:13:30,800 --> 00:13:33,960 Speaker 6: of control rather so than managing them as a as 278 00:13:34,040 --> 00:13:38,840 Speaker 6: an actual asset to the people. So I did a 279 00:13:38,880 --> 00:13:40,439 Speaker 6: bunch of that over there, A lot of bow hunting, 280 00:13:40,480 --> 00:13:43,000 Speaker 6: but it just never did it to me in the 281 00:13:43,040 --> 00:13:46,079 Speaker 6: way that Idaho managers game and the relationship with public 282 00:13:46,160 --> 00:13:48,800 Speaker 6: lands here. So I knew as soon as I finished 283 00:13:48,920 --> 00:13:52,160 Speaker 6: finished my education there and finished my time, I wanted 284 00:13:52,160 --> 00:13:52,600 Speaker 6: to move over. 285 00:13:53,200 --> 00:13:55,280 Speaker 1: Were you involved some kind of ranch and type radio 286 00:13:55,360 --> 00:13:56,560 Speaker 1: tape activities over there? 287 00:13:56,640 --> 00:13:59,200 Speaker 6: Yeah, So I always had a bit of a question 288 00:13:59,200 --> 00:14:04,360 Speaker 6: for adventure. So my mate and I basically worked out, 289 00:14:04,400 --> 00:14:06,760 Speaker 6: like what weeks we needed to be at college in 290 00:14:06,800 --> 00:14:09,520 Speaker 6: which we didn't so that we could just scrape by 291 00:14:09,559 --> 00:14:10,440 Speaker 6: and pass because. 292 00:14:10,200 --> 00:14:12,679 Speaker 3: We want to do it to cowboy and hunt. 293 00:14:13,360 --> 00:14:15,719 Speaker 6: That was basically our life over there, and Mum and 294 00:14:15,800 --> 00:14:17,440 Speaker 6: Dad went too fond of it at the time, but 295 00:14:18,200 --> 00:14:20,680 Speaker 6: you know, they understand it now. And I was very 296 00:14:20,760 --> 00:14:23,520 Speaker 6: lucky my old man and my sister actually came out 297 00:14:23,720 --> 00:14:25,640 Speaker 6: last year and we came on a hunt with me 298 00:14:26,440 --> 00:14:28,200 Speaker 6: for the first time, and we were lucky enough to 299 00:14:28,200 --> 00:14:31,080 Speaker 6: harvest and elk together and work our butts off for 300 00:14:31,160 --> 00:14:33,640 Speaker 6: it and pack it out. And it's a very very 301 00:14:34,160 --> 00:14:37,760 Speaker 6: very special experience. Have you guys married, No, at least 302 00:14:37,800 --> 00:14:40,440 Speaker 6: this guy is married for a long. 303 00:14:40,760 --> 00:14:42,800 Speaker 1: You've been married a long time fifteen. 304 00:14:43,040 --> 00:14:46,200 Speaker 6: His wife's actually he's watched a hairdresser and one of 305 00:14:46,200 --> 00:14:48,960 Speaker 6: the most highly acclaimed hairdressers in the valley. 306 00:14:49,680 --> 00:14:52,080 Speaker 1: So you got like a revolt going against your wife. 307 00:14:53,440 --> 00:14:55,960 Speaker 4: She you know, she tips a big game. How she 308 00:14:56,000 --> 00:14:57,760 Speaker 4: doesn't like it, but she gets a glass of wine 309 00:14:57,800 --> 00:15:01,000 Speaker 4: in hair and. 310 00:14:58,840 --> 00:15:01,520 Speaker 1: She want to run her fingers through the back of 311 00:15:01,560 --> 00:15:01,880 Speaker 1: your hair. 312 00:15:01,920 --> 00:15:03,600 Speaker 4: It's got the Kavorka man, you can't. 313 00:15:05,720 --> 00:15:07,280 Speaker 1: All right, So there you have it. So if you come, 314 00:15:07,360 --> 00:15:10,480 Speaker 1: if you wind up anywhere in the vicinity, come down 315 00:15:10,520 --> 00:15:14,240 Speaker 1: to our flagship first light store, only place on the 316 00:15:14,280 --> 00:15:16,160 Speaker 1: planet right now where you can walk in touch stuff. 317 00:15:16,480 --> 00:15:18,080 Speaker 3: Yeah, it's a pretty neat experience. 318 00:15:18,360 --> 00:15:21,360 Speaker 6: A couple of weird looking dudes get some great products 319 00:15:21,360 --> 00:15:21,680 Speaker 6: in your hands. 320 00:15:21,760 --> 00:15:24,160 Speaker 1: Yeah, well now they know, now they know, Like it's like, yeah, 321 00:15:24,200 --> 00:15:27,520 Speaker 1: a couple of alarming looking fellas, but deep down, a 322 00:15:27,600 --> 00:15:28,440 Speaker 1: couple of hearts of gold. 323 00:15:28,920 --> 00:15:29,760 Speaker 3: I wouldn't go that far. 324 00:15:30,080 --> 00:15:32,720 Speaker 4: We like to hunt, man, that's the most important part. 325 00:15:33,280 --> 00:15:38,280 Speaker 1: Yeah. Ever, if you can speak to the equipment, that's great, man. Yeah, absolutely, well, 326 00:15:38,280 --> 00:15:40,120 Speaker 1: thank you man. Thanks for letting us be down here too, 327 00:15:40,120 --> 00:15:41,240 Speaker 1: because we had to lock the doors. 328 00:15:41,480 --> 00:15:44,320 Speaker 4: Oh absolutely, Now, this is a really cool experience. That's 329 00:15:44,400 --> 00:15:45,600 Speaker 4: awesome having you guys here. 330 00:15:45,520 --> 00:15:47,440 Speaker 1: I'll point out that there was a person out there 331 00:15:47,440 --> 00:15:50,280 Speaker 1: that wanted to come in who had a pretty very 332 00:15:50,360 --> 00:15:53,040 Speaker 1: set She knew exactly what she wanted. Absolutely, that was 333 00:15:53,040 --> 00:15:54,400 Speaker 1: an educated customer coming in. 334 00:15:54,440 --> 00:15:56,320 Speaker 4: We get a lot of those, Definitely a lot of 335 00:15:56,360 --> 00:15:58,680 Speaker 4: people they know exactly what they want to put their 336 00:15:58,680 --> 00:16:00,520 Speaker 4: hands on. They just want to try it on, see 337 00:16:00,520 --> 00:16:02,720 Speaker 4: what they need. A lot of times we can close 338 00:16:02,760 --> 00:16:03,520 Speaker 4: that sale right here. 339 00:16:03,600 --> 00:16:05,520 Speaker 1: Yes, she wasn't here to run her fingers through your hair. 340 00:16:05,680 --> 00:16:07,640 Speaker 1: She was here to make a purchase. Oh you never know, man, 341 00:16:10,040 --> 00:16:16,960 Speaker 1: All right, Tommy, thanks coming down now, help enlighten, enlighten 342 00:16:17,040 --> 00:16:26,480 Speaker 1: people about the rodeo event called tell me what it's called? 343 00:16:26,600 --> 00:16:26,640 Speaker 7: Do? 344 00:16:26,720 --> 00:16:27,680 Speaker 1: I want to make sure I got it right. 345 00:16:27,720 --> 00:16:30,480 Speaker 5: Technically, our turn our our event is called shoot Cow 346 00:16:30,560 --> 00:16:32,560 Speaker 5: milking shoot cows. 347 00:16:32,920 --> 00:16:34,920 Speaker 2: Basically you and you want me to just start like. 348 00:16:34,920 --> 00:16:37,480 Speaker 1: The I want to know the history. I want souped nuts. 349 00:16:39,160 --> 00:16:42,400 Speaker 5: As I understand it, the history is like basically you're 350 00:16:42,440 --> 00:16:49,320 Speaker 5: loading cows like with manpower instead of with horsepower. 351 00:16:50,000 --> 00:16:53,800 Speaker 2: And you know, basically the way that's. 352 00:16:53,840 --> 00:16:57,440 Speaker 5: Kind of the crux or the beginning of how where 353 00:16:57,480 --> 00:17:02,240 Speaker 5: that rodeo event started. What, as I understand it, how 354 00:17:02,240 --> 00:17:05,200 Speaker 5: it works is your basic rodeo arena, your basic oval. 355 00:17:06,040 --> 00:17:09,240 Speaker 5: One side is almost always grand stands. The other side 356 00:17:09,320 --> 00:17:11,560 Speaker 5: is your bucking shoots, and you're where all your rough 357 00:17:11,600 --> 00:17:16,840 Speaker 5: stock is bulls horses, bucking horses, whatever you have. 358 00:17:17,000 --> 00:17:20,080 Speaker 2: In most standard proteo arenas, you have six bucket. 359 00:17:19,840 --> 00:17:21,760 Speaker 5: Shoots three and three with a gap in the middle, 360 00:17:21,920 --> 00:17:23,639 Speaker 5: may or may not be a gap in the middle. 361 00:17:24,400 --> 00:17:26,240 Speaker 5: Wild cow milk and what they do is it's a 362 00:17:26,240 --> 00:17:29,480 Speaker 5: three man team. You have three positions on that team. 363 00:17:29,520 --> 00:17:32,760 Speaker 5: You have a milker, a mugger, and an anchor. Anchor 364 00:17:32,840 --> 00:17:35,320 Speaker 5: is kind of self explanatory. Usually it's your biggest guy 365 00:17:36,000 --> 00:17:38,439 Speaker 5: on the team, and he's a guy that usually is 366 00:17:38,480 --> 00:17:41,399 Speaker 5: in charge of not letting go of that rope and 367 00:17:41,440 --> 00:17:46,440 Speaker 5: can in case there's catastrophe, like two guys go down 368 00:17:46,520 --> 00:17:49,800 Speaker 5: or one guy goes down, the big guy can usually 369 00:17:49,840 --> 00:17:52,399 Speaker 5: just set down on his bend his knees and squat 370 00:17:52,480 --> 00:17:56,080 Speaker 5: down and stop a cow or ski around or get 371 00:17:56,160 --> 00:18:01,840 Speaker 5: drug around. But basically the mugger's job is to stop 372 00:18:01,880 --> 00:18:06,119 Speaker 5: that cow you at some point. We'll get to that 373 00:18:06,160 --> 00:18:09,240 Speaker 5: in a second. The milker's job is pretty self explanatory. 374 00:18:09,359 --> 00:18:13,840 Speaker 5: His job is to milk it. They run six cows 375 00:18:13,880 --> 00:18:19,840 Speaker 5: wild heifers into the bucking shoots. Usually there's an event 376 00:18:19,920 --> 00:18:21,920 Speaker 5: of some kind going on, a drill team or a 377 00:18:21,920 --> 00:18:25,359 Speaker 5: clown show going on about that time, so that each 378 00:18:25,400 --> 00:18:28,240 Speaker 5: team draws a number out of a hat one through six, 379 00:18:29,280 --> 00:18:31,600 Speaker 5: whatever durn number you draw. You draw number three. That's 380 00:18:31,600 --> 00:18:34,880 Speaker 5: your cow, and that's your shoot. Shoot three. You inside. 381 00:18:35,320 --> 00:18:37,639 Speaker 5: You take a rope alter. Everybody, every team has issued 382 00:18:37,640 --> 00:18:40,879 Speaker 5: a rope pulter in a clear beer bottle like a 383 00:18:40,960 --> 00:18:44,520 Speaker 5: Corona bottle. Yeah. Yeah, they're not making it easy on you. 384 00:18:45,200 --> 00:18:47,199 Speaker 5: You take somebody's got to get in the shoot with 385 00:18:47,280 --> 00:18:52,120 Speaker 5: the cow, put the rope alter on it, and usually 386 00:18:52,160 --> 00:18:54,080 Speaker 5: you wait for the event to and they'll go through 387 00:18:54,080 --> 00:18:55,719 Speaker 5: and announce everybody's sponsors. 388 00:18:55,920 --> 00:18:58,520 Speaker 1: But they presumably they've checked to see if the cow 389 00:18:58,600 --> 00:18:59,200 Speaker 1: is lactating. 390 00:18:59,400 --> 00:19:03,760 Speaker 5: Oh yeah, but that's something too as usually sometimes you 391 00:19:03,760 --> 00:19:07,240 Speaker 5: do get one that's not nearly as moist as the 392 00:19:07,280 --> 00:19:08,000 Speaker 5: rest of them. 393 00:19:08,320 --> 00:19:10,600 Speaker 2: You know, you'll try it one once in a while. 394 00:19:10,640 --> 00:19:12,560 Speaker 2: That's what hands my question to Bubbly Doug. 395 00:19:13,320 --> 00:19:15,840 Speaker 5: You know, I want every upper hand I can get, yep, 396 00:19:16,160 --> 00:19:18,160 Speaker 5: So I went straight to the man. 397 00:19:18,400 --> 00:19:19,840 Speaker 2: Yeah, but. 398 00:19:21,440 --> 00:19:24,040 Speaker 5: Then the buzzer goes off and all six shoots open 399 00:19:24,160 --> 00:19:27,480 Speaker 5: that you will all six guys open their shoots, and 400 00:19:27,600 --> 00:19:29,880 Speaker 5: six cows come bull dozing out of there, and it's 401 00:19:29,920 --> 00:19:32,280 Speaker 5: your job to stop them and not get run over. 402 00:19:32,400 --> 00:19:34,240 Speaker 1: And there's eighteen people in the arena. 403 00:19:34,400 --> 00:19:35,960 Speaker 2: Correct, the rules of. 404 00:19:35,920 --> 00:19:36,480 Speaker 3: The of the. 405 00:19:37,960 --> 00:19:38,920 Speaker 2: Of the event are. 406 00:19:39,400 --> 00:19:43,879 Speaker 5: You cannot touch that cow with your hands until she 407 00:19:43,960 --> 00:19:46,440 Speaker 5: crosses a chalk line about twenty five feet. 408 00:19:46,240 --> 00:19:47,080 Speaker 2: Out in the arena. 409 00:19:47,960 --> 00:19:51,200 Speaker 5: You can hold onto that rope, but you cannot physically 410 00:19:51,240 --> 00:19:53,600 Speaker 5: touch that cow. Put your hands on that cow. As 411 00:19:53,600 --> 00:19:57,760 Speaker 5: soon as she crosses the plane of that chalk line. Boy, 412 00:19:57,840 --> 00:20:00,760 Speaker 5: she's fair game. And usually the go to move is 413 00:20:00,840 --> 00:20:03,960 Speaker 5: just wrap her up in a headlock and just hang on, man, 414 00:20:04,160 --> 00:20:07,800 Speaker 5: just don't let go. Okay, but there's a lot going 415 00:20:07,840 --> 00:20:10,680 Speaker 5: on there too, because your anchor is usually trying. Once 416 00:20:10,720 --> 00:20:13,240 Speaker 5: somebody gets a hold of her, an anchor will usually 417 00:20:13,280 --> 00:20:15,879 Speaker 5: try to either stabilize her back end so she's not 418 00:20:15,960 --> 00:20:18,919 Speaker 5: pivoting around in a circle because a milker is not 419 00:20:18,960 --> 00:20:20,240 Speaker 5: going to be able to get her. But a good 420 00:20:20,280 --> 00:20:23,199 Speaker 5: milker can milk her if she's moving, but not at 421 00:20:23,200 --> 00:20:23,920 Speaker 5: a dead run. 422 00:20:24,680 --> 00:20:28,399 Speaker 1: So so you do you try to snake that teat 423 00:20:28,480 --> 00:20:30,040 Speaker 1: right down into that beer bottle. 424 00:20:30,600 --> 00:20:32,520 Speaker 5: You try to squirt it into the squirt it in there. 425 00:20:32,560 --> 00:20:34,679 Speaker 5: You need one good squirt. The last rule of it 426 00:20:34,720 --> 00:20:37,560 Speaker 5: is one good squirt. You need one good squirt. Yeah, 427 00:20:37,640 --> 00:20:39,640 Speaker 5: you don't got to fill the bottle. No, the rule 428 00:20:39,760 --> 00:20:41,360 Speaker 5: is is that you go out once you. 429 00:20:41,960 --> 00:20:43,840 Speaker 1: Find we just had it. We I'll point out we 430 00:20:43,960 --> 00:20:45,679 Speaker 1: just had a where we did a deep dive on 431 00:20:46,280 --> 00:20:51,400 Speaker 1: competition regulations. I was proudish thing. Yeah, yeah, one good 432 00:20:51,440 --> 00:20:52,520 Speaker 1: squirt isn't gonna. 433 00:20:52,280 --> 00:20:53,879 Speaker 2: Cut it for me. No, it's not gonna cut it 434 00:20:53,920 --> 00:20:54,200 Speaker 2: for you. 435 00:20:54,320 --> 00:20:55,960 Speaker 1: How who defines a good squirt? 436 00:20:56,160 --> 00:20:56,760 Speaker 2: The judges? 437 00:20:57,200 --> 00:21:00,800 Speaker 5: Because once, once you get once the milker yells the 438 00:21:00,800 --> 00:21:05,240 Speaker 5: word milk, it's the mugger's position to pull the halter because. 439 00:21:05,040 --> 00:21:07,240 Speaker 2: The milker has runner back up, back up. 440 00:21:07,480 --> 00:21:11,359 Speaker 1: Okay, it runs out of guy's holding the rope, correct 441 00:21:11,400 --> 00:21:15,000 Speaker 1: crosses the plane, somebody stops her. Okay, someone grabs it, 442 00:21:15,240 --> 00:21:17,600 Speaker 1: and someone tries to stabilize it. The milker goes in 443 00:21:17,640 --> 00:21:18,199 Speaker 1: with the bottle. 444 00:21:18,480 --> 00:21:21,439 Speaker 2: Yep, okay, get some milk. The rules are that you 445 00:21:21,520 --> 00:21:24,679 Speaker 2: need one drop to come out of that bottle in 446 00:21:24,760 --> 00:21:27,280 Speaker 2: five seconds of it being upside down. But you gotta 447 00:21:27,320 --> 00:21:27,880 Speaker 2: have the halter. 448 00:21:28,400 --> 00:21:30,040 Speaker 5: That's what I was looking for and sprint all the 449 00:21:30,040 --> 00:21:32,200 Speaker 5: way across the arena to in front of the grand stands, 450 00:21:32,200 --> 00:21:33,560 Speaker 5: where there's a judge standing. 451 00:21:33,280 --> 00:21:35,040 Speaker 2: There with a flag in a rope. 452 00:21:35,480 --> 00:21:38,520 Speaker 5: When you step into when you step into that ring, 453 00:21:38,720 --> 00:21:42,200 Speaker 5: she'll she'll draw, she'll throw a flag and say time. 454 00:21:42,880 --> 00:21:45,600 Speaker 5: You got to turn that bottle upside down. And you 455 00:21:45,720 --> 00:21:48,760 Speaker 5: got five seconds from that moment for one drop to 456 00:21:48,960 --> 00:21:49,760 Speaker 5: produce a drip? 457 00:21:50,000 --> 00:21:50,520 Speaker 2: One drop? 458 00:21:52,520 --> 00:21:58,440 Speaker 1: How uh, here's the thing I struggle with. How if 459 00:21:58,480 --> 00:22:05,480 Speaker 1: you put muttons? Okay, picture of dial and mutton busting 460 00:22:05,600 --> 00:22:10,239 Speaker 1: is here, and bull riding is here? Where does this 461 00:22:10,320 --> 00:22:11,600 Speaker 1: fit about dead Center? 462 00:22:13,520 --> 00:22:18,160 Speaker 2: About dead Center? Nor? Yeah? Yeah, it's like it's it's 463 00:22:18,240 --> 00:22:20,520 Speaker 2: just like a thing where like dudes that like like me. 464 00:22:20,880 --> 00:22:24,120 Speaker 5: You know, I'm getting on and get into my mid forties, 465 00:22:24,840 --> 00:22:27,000 Speaker 5: and my only good excuse is that, man, I just 466 00:22:27,080 --> 00:22:30,439 Speaker 5: missed some good old girk conflict. 467 00:22:29,680 --> 00:22:30,160 Speaker 1: Got it. 468 00:22:30,240 --> 00:22:35,200 Speaker 2: You know, you can't get away with ragged on dudes 469 00:22:35,200 --> 00:22:38,080 Speaker 2: in public anymore. You got to get into a rodeo 470 00:22:39,240 --> 00:22:39,560 Speaker 2: for that. 471 00:22:39,600 --> 00:22:42,080 Speaker 1: Man. Yeah, you got a boss at work. You know 472 00:22:42,119 --> 00:22:43,320 Speaker 1: when I was a boy, he just went up and 473 00:22:43,400 --> 00:22:47,679 Speaker 1: just beat somebody up me too. Guys. Now everybody's all touchy. 474 00:22:47,840 --> 00:22:50,800 Speaker 2: You got a boss at work that's real. He likes 475 00:22:50,840 --> 00:22:53,200 Speaker 2: to give his business, you. 476 00:22:53,119 --> 00:22:53,560 Speaker 3: Know what I mean. 477 00:22:53,640 --> 00:22:55,800 Speaker 2: And the guy at the gas station you know, I'm right, zep, 478 00:22:56,080 --> 00:22:57,600 Speaker 2: the guy at the gas station that gave you a 479 00:22:57,680 --> 00:22:59,520 Speaker 2: ration of it last week and. 480 00:22:59,480 --> 00:23:01,840 Speaker 5: You let it go. But you can let all that 481 00:23:01,880 --> 00:23:04,560 Speaker 5: girl out in the rodeo arena. What are you laughing at? 482 00:23:04,600 --> 00:23:08,080 Speaker 3: Cream? It's true. It's so true, man. 483 00:23:08,760 --> 00:23:10,919 Speaker 2: So that's all you're looking for, just and a and 484 00:23:10,960 --> 00:23:12,919 Speaker 2: a buckle. I want first place, of course. I'm a 485 00:23:12,920 --> 00:23:13,600 Speaker 2: competitive dude. 486 00:23:13,600 --> 00:23:16,840 Speaker 1: Don't want to win, and you want there to be 487 00:23:16,880 --> 00:23:20,000 Speaker 1: cold hard cash at the end of right and a 488 00:23:20,040 --> 00:23:22,560 Speaker 1: sweet T shirt and a sweet T shirt. How did 489 00:23:22,600 --> 00:23:23,800 Speaker 1: you first become aware of it? 490 00:23:24,160 --> 00:23:28,160 Speaker 5: A good friend of mine from high school? And uh, 491 00:23:28,480 --> 00:23:31,280 Speaker 5: they running? Do We compete against them in that rodeo 492 00:23:31,520 --> 00:23:34,240 Speaker 5: twice a season and they run in other ones. And 493 00:23:34,320 --> 00:23:38,520 Speaker 5: We've been buddy since, you know, high school. I've seen 494 00:23:38,600 --> 00:23:40,640 Speaker 5: him do it at the rodeo and I ran into 495 00:23:40,760 --> 00:23:42,800 Speaker 5: him out to dinner one night at a little kind 496 00:23:42,800 --> 00:23:45,119 Speaker 5: of local pub, water and whole place, and I'm like, 497 00:23:46,359 --> 00:23:48,320 Speaker 5: you ever get down and man, I'll jump in there. 498 00:23:48,400 --> 00:23:49,480 Speaker 5: You need a man on the team. 499 00:23:49,760 --> 00:23:52,520 Speaker 2: He's in. Uh. I was like, you get down too, 500 00:23:52,640 --> 00:23:54,720 Speaker 2: I might need I might know somebody else. It's interested. 501 00:23:55,160 --> 00:23:56,680 Speaker 2: He's like, y'all to just start your own team. 502 00:23:56,720 --> 00:23:57,920 Speaker 1: You only need one more. 503 00:23:58,600 --> 00:24:02,600 Speaker 2: Like you know what, Joshua point yeah, no, yeah, I'm 504 00:24:02,600 --> 00:24:04,280 Speaker 2: a beat him for a buckle. I beat him this week, 505 00:24:04,359 --> 00:24:06,000 Speaker 2: this last one. You did you know? 506 00:24:06,119 --> 00:24:11,040 Speaker 1: Yeah, you know that joke where you say that you're 507 00:24:11,119 --> 00:24:14,040 Speaker 1: milking the cow. My dad did this to me and 508 00:24:14,080 --> 00:24:16,440 Speaker 1: you say, hey, did you know there's always a star 509 00:24:16,680 --> 00:24:19,679 Speaker 1: on the end of a cow's teeth and you go 510 00:24:19,760 --> 00:24:20,280 Speaker 1: to look and. 511 00:24:21,720 --> 00:24:24,080 Speaker 2: Right in the face. No, I never got that. 512 00:24:24,080 --> 00:24:24,959 Speaker 1: That's a good joke. 513 00:24:25,560 --> 00:24:26,320 Speaker 2: That is a good joke. 514 00:24:26,400 --> 00:24:29,960 Speaker 1: My old man he had a buddy. So he had 515 00:24:29,960 --> 00:24:33,840 Speaker 1: a buddy that ran that was a ran a dairy place, 516 00:24:34,840 --> 00:24:36,320 Speaker 1: and my old man and go down there, and the 517 00:24:36,359 --> 00:24:38,080 Speaker 1: way I remember, man, he'd always be coming back with 518 00:24:38,160 --> 00:24:42,679 Speaker 1: that milk, but no pasture eyed milk. And like in 519 00:24:42,720 --> 00:24:44,600 Speaker 1: my head, I'm sure it wasn't true. In my head, 520 00:24:44,600 --> 00:24:49,520 Speaker 1: I remember that there was grass, it's like moss in there, 521 00:24:49,720 --> 00:24:52,919 Speaker 1: and we hated it, man, and we would call it 522 00:24:53,000 --> 00:24:55,280 Speaker 1: cow's milk. He'd be like, the hell you take all 523 00:24:55,320 --> 00:24:57,479 Speaker 1: the other milk? Kids, you know, like no, not cow's 524 00:24:57,480 --> 00:25:01,960 Speaker 1: milk all layered out the fridge like like I said, 525 00:25:01,960 --> 00:25:04,040 Speaker 1: I remember it with like chunks of grass in there, 526 00:25:04,480 --> 00:25:06,280 Speaker 1: and oh, we did not like that milk. But guy 527 00:25:06,359 --> 00:25:08,560 Speaker 1: had some of it recently at my buddy's dairy place 528 00:25:08,600 --> 00:25:12,120 Speaker 1: where super chilled. It goes into that like oh, it's 529 00:25:12,160 --> 00:25:15,640 Speaker 1: like thirty three thirty two point one degrees or whatever. Man, 530 00:25:15,760 --> 00:25:18,240 Speaker 1: it is good, dude. Yeah, but when I was a 531 00:25:18,240 --> 00:25:20,200 Speaker 1: little kid, I was definitely afraid of that milk. 532 00:25:20,400 --> 00:25:21,200 Speaker 2: Yeah. 533 00:25:21,320 --> 00:25:23,600 Speaker 1: You ever take a big swig after that competition? 534 00:25:24,640 --> 00:25:28,000 Speaker 5: Oh No, it's usually reserved for in front of the judges. 535 00:25:28,040 --> 00:25:30,639 Speaker 2: But you know, I'd be game. Yep. 536 00:25:31,359 --> 00:25:33,440 Speaker 1: You know when someone asked a question and they're sort 537 00:25:33,440 --> 00:25:35,879 Speaker 1: of like acting like they're asking a hypothetical question, but 538 00:25:35,920 --> 00:25:38,840 Speaker 1: you realize they're actually asking a question. No, it'd be 539 00:25:38,840 --> 00:25:44,119 Speaker 1: like one of those questions. It's like, let's just say, Okay, 540 00:25:44,320 --> 00:25:52,480 Speaker 1: this guy writes in this big, long letter about recovering 541 00:25:52,520 --> 00:25:54,240 Speaker 1: a k Craig. If I get some of this wrong, 542 00:25:54,240 --> 00:25:57,520 Speaker 1: I'm trying. It's a long letter. Basically a dog gets 543 00:25:57,600 --> 00:26:02,680 Speaker 1: killed and they wind up with a fawn and say 544 00:26:02,720 --> 00:26:06,320 Speaker 1: also that his wife is producing someone in the family 545 00:26:06,400 --> 00:26:08,440 Speaker 1: is producing way more milk than their kid can drink. 546 00:26:09,000 --> 00:26:11,520 Speaker 1: Like I remember my wife, she'd have so much she'd 547 00:26:11,560 --> 00:26:14,440 Speaker 1: be feeding the baby and filling the freezer with frozen 548 00:26:14,440 --> 00:26:20,119 Speaker 1: bags of milk. So he's like, let's just say, would 549 00:26:20,119 --> 00:26:21,720 Speaker 1: that be good milk for that baby fawn? 550 00:26:23,359 --> 00:26:23,520 Speaker 3: Right? 551 00:26:23,560 --> 00:26:24,879 Speaker 1: Am I getting this more or less correct? 552 00:26:26,480 --> 00:26:29,880 Speaker 2: You lost me his wife's milk? H Oh, okay, now 553 00:26:29,880 --> 00:26:30,560 Speaker 2: you got me back. 554 00:26:30,720 --> 00:26:32,680 Speaker 1: Yeah, And I don't know what the're right to him? 555 00:26:32,920 --> 00:26:34,800 Speaker 2: Uh cholesterrum. 556 00:26:35,119 --> 00:26:39,240 Speaker 1: We haven't replied, Oh, because we. 557 00:26:39,200 --> 00:26:41,840 Speaker 2: Have an answer or not a real answer. 558 00:26:41,920 --> 00:26:43,479 Speaker 1: Oh half a finger weighed in on it. 559 00:26:43,520 --> 00:26:45,000 Speaker 2: Oh, he's the man for the question. 560 00:26:45,119 --> 00:26:47,080 Speaker 1: But you know this just came up, and I'm gonna 561 00:26:47,080 --> 00:26:50,040 Speaker 1: bring it up again. The half a finger brought up 562 00:26:50,080 --> 00:26:52,439 Speaker 1: a great point, and I feel like raising it twice 563 00:26:52,480 --> 00:26:58,119 Speaker 1: because how throughout your entire life you have been told 564 00:26:59,040 --> 00:27:02,359 Speaker 1: if you touch a phone, it's mother will abandon it. 565 00:27:03,160 --> 00:27:04,280 Speaker 1: Like how many times have you heard that? 566 00:27:04,320 --> 00:27:09,720 Speaker 2: Growing up? Including birds too? You were always told to 567 00:27:09,760 --> 00:27:10,760 Speaker 2: never touch birds either. 568 00:27:10,880 --> 00:27:13,239 Speaker 1: Halfle finger brings up a great point where he's like 569 00:27:13,320 --> 00:27:18,600 Speaker 1: half a fingers Like all the collaring research that is 570 00:27:18,640 --> 00:27:25,199 Speaker 1: done on funds, right, they net them tranquilize and whatever, 571 00:27:25,880 --> 00:27:32,600 Speaker 1: handle them, draw blood, wave them. If what you've been 572 00:27:32,640 --> 00:27:35,440 Speaker 1: told your whole life was true, all of that would 573 00:27:35,480 --> 00:27:39,200 Speaker 1: be in vain because those fauns would all be dead. 574 00:27:39,760 --> 00:27:40,199 Speaker 1: But they're not. 575 00:27:41,440 --> 00:27:42,120 Speaker 2: That's a good point. 576 00:27:42,240 --> 00:27:44,080 Speaker 1: When you go to a bear den and they work 577 00:27:44,160 --> 00:27:46,000 Speaker 1: up bears in a bear den, s, what are they 578 00:27:46,040 --> 00:27:49,560 Speaker 1: doing handling all of them everything? They got them inside 579 00:27:49,600 --> 00:27:52,840 Speaker 1: their coat. Yeah, I see where they got them in 580 00:27:52,880 --> 00:27:56,399 Speaker 1: their coat to warm them up. But then on the 581 00:27:56,400 --> 00:27:58,480 Speaker 1: same hand, you're told your whole life the minute you 582 00:27:58,600 --> 00:28:03,840 Speaker 1: touch it, it will be abandoned. Helffle Fingers first point. 583 00:28:03,880 --> 00:28:06,480 Speaker 1: The doe wasn't dead. Helfel Fingers first point. The fawn 584 00:28:06,720 --> 00:28:12,280 Speaker 1: is not abandoned, hundred percent sure of that. Does spend 585 00:28:12,359 --> 00:28:16,879 Speaker 1: almost zero time within sight of the fawn only to nurse, 586 00:28:17,000 --> 00:28:21,000 Speaker 1: and then they leave them for many more hours. My 587 00:28:21,119 --> 00:28:23,520 Speaker 1: son had a new burn newborn fawn in his yard 588 00:28:23,600 --> 00:28:26,840 Speaker 1: last week against the backyard fence in Texas, and my 589 00:28:26,960 --> 00:28:30,360 Speaker 1: brother did the week before in Wisconsin. It happens all 590 00:28:30,440 --> 00:28:35,119 Speaker 1: the time, and they are not abandoned. Stepping away from 591 00:28:35,160 --> 00:28:41,840 Speaker 1: Halfflefinger for meant to remind bear hunters of something uh 592 00:28:42,240 --> 00:28:48,000 Speaker 1: I have watched like almost anywhere you go pretty much 593 00:28:48,000 --> 00:28:49,600 Speaker 1: anywhere you go, anywhere you go on the lower forty eight, 594 00:28:49,680 --> 00:28:50,960 Speaker 1: anywhere you go on eighties. 595 00:28:51,040 --> 00:28:51,480 Speaker 2: I don't know. 596 00:28:52,040 --> 00:28:54,800 Speaker 1: Ninety percent of Alaska, you're not allowed. During blackbirar season, 597 00:28:54,840 --> 00:28:56,800 Speaker 1: you're allowed. You're not allowed to kill asau with cubs. 598 00:28:57,800 --> 00:29:01,480 Speaker 1: Most people in granted, don't get a lot of opportunities. Most 599 00:29:01,480 --> 00:29:06,240 Speaker 1: people site check it like is it got a cub? Nope, 600 00:29:06,440 --> 00:29:09,800 Speaker 1: But likewise, in the early spring on their first So 601 00:29:10,040 --> 00:29:12,840 Speaker 1: those babies are born, right, they're born in February January, 602 00:29:13,800 --> 00:29:16,959 Speaker 1: and they come out, and that early spring when they 603 00:29:17,000 --> 00:29:19,520 Speaker 1: come out, she probably has that thing hidden. I have 604 00:29:19,720 --> 00:29:24,320 Speaker 1: watched sows have a have on an avalanche slide. I've 605 00:29:24,360 --> 00:29:27,120 Speaker 1: watched sows put their cubs in the brush and go 606 00:29:27,160 --> 00:29:31,720 Speaker 1: out and feeding that avalanche slide for thirty minutes, and 607 00:29:31,840 --> 00:29:33,760 Speaker 1: go back in and check on that cub and go 608 00:29:33,880 --> 00:29:35,959 Speaker 1: back out into the avalanche slide. And you would, if 609 00:29:35,960 --> 00:29:37,680 Speaker 1: you were just watching her, you'd be like, oh, she 610 00:29:37,720 --> 00:29:38,320 Speaker 1: doesn't have a cub. 611 00:29:39,120 --> 00:29:42,440 Speaker 3: Really, well, there's your argument for bay biting right there. 612 00:29:42,560 --> 00:29:42,959 Speaker 2: There you go. 613 00:29:43,400 --> 00:29:46,560 Speaker 1: Where are that louse? He's leveraging this for political purposes? 614 00:29:47,640 --> 00:29:48,440 Speaker 3: Don't get me started. 615 00:29:50,360 --> 00:29:52,680 Speaker 1: We want to protect that in this stet. So yeah, 616 00:29:53,040 --> 00:29:53,720 Speaker 1: is it that risk? 617 00:29:54,440 --> 00:29:55,680 Speaker 4: I think it's at risk everywhere. 618 00:29:55,720 --> 00:29:58,880 Speaker 1: Sure it is. Oh yeah, well you get Clay nukeomb 619 00:29:58,920 --> 00:29:59,920 Speaker 1: started on a subject. 620 00:30:00,000 --> 00:30:02,400 Speaker 3: Oh yeah, lusty or to yeah, big time. 621 00:30:03,040 --> 00:30:05,120 Speaker 4: I was talking to Clay this week about bear hunting. 622 00:30:05,400 --> 00:30:08,400 Speaker 4: We shot a bear on Wednesday and couldn't find it. 623 00:30:09,840 --> 00:30:12,200 Speaker 4: I heard a death mone right before dark and I 624 00:30:12,240 --> 00:30:14,520 Speaker 4: could not find it. And masters tell me it's like, 625 00:30:14,520 --> 00:30:16,600 Speaker 4: oh yeah, that bear is dead somewhere right in the timber. 626 00:30:16,640 --> 00:30:18,840 Speaker 4: And got in there that morning with a dog and 627 00:30:18,840 --> 00:30:19,640 Speaker 4: found it right away. 628 00:30:19,760 --> 00:30:21,320 Speaker 3: Oh great, Yeah, it's cool. 629 00:30:21,440 --> 00:30:22,640 Speaker 2: Still good, it's good. 630 00:30:22,760 --> 00:30:28,080 Speaker 1: Yeah. Back to Heffelfinger. The notion that human scent will 631 00:30:28,120 --> 00:30:31,080 Speaker 1: cause the mother to abandon it is an old wives 632 00:30:31,160 --> 00:30:36,080 Speaker 1: tale perpetuated by biologists to keep people from touching newborn fawns. 633 00:30:36,960 --> 00:30:40,320 Speaker 1: Researchers handle fawns all the time, and although they use 634 00:30:40,400 --> 00:30:44,960 Speaker 1: gloves to minimize scent transfer, the mother does not abandon 635 00:30:45,040 --> 00:30:48,720 Speaker 1: the fawns. The farmer anecdote is more proof of that 636 00:30:48,960 --> 00:30:55,480 Speaker 1: maternal instinct is strong. Number three right, Tommy, I'm ready. 637 00:30:55,720 --> 00:30:58,080 Speaker 1: Human breast milk is better than whole milk from a cow. 638 00:31:00,040 --> 00:31:03,640 Speaker 1: Again see number one above. Don't touch the fon. I'm 639 00:31:03,680 --> 00:31:06,440 Speaker 1: sure a faun would gain weight nicely on human breast milk. 640 00:31:06,880 --> 00:31:09,200 Speaker 1: But a better use for all that breast milk is 641 00:31:09,200 --> 00:31:11,640 Speaker 1: the soak dove breasts in it before wrapping and baking 642 00:31:11,680 --> 00:31:16,800 Speaker 1: and grilling. He says, That's why they call it breast milk. 643 00:31:20,560 --> 00:31:23,040 Speaker 1: I like Jim Dude, he's the funniest guy in the 644 00:31:23,040 --> 00:31:35,280 Speaker 1: world that he's a fuddice guy in the world. So uh, 645 00:31:35,360 --> 00:31:37,960 Speaker 1: any more, you'd like to add about your about about 646 00:31:37,960 --> 00:31:40,080 Speaker 1: your competition, because I got another question I want to 647 00:31:40,080 --> 00:31:43,280 Speaker 1: pursue with you. H We're coming for buckles in September, 648 00:31:43,360 --> 00:31:43,640 Speaker 1: are you? 649 00:31:43,840 --> 00:31:45,920 Speaker 2: Oh? Yeah, Me and the rest of and the rest 650 00:31:45,920 --> 00:31:48,240 Speaker 2: of the team, Joe Wee, Steve Maby We're coming. 651 00:31:48,840 --> 00:31:50,280 Speaker 1: And what's the buckle saying on it? 652 00:31:51,000 --> 00:31:54,760 Speaker 2: Usually I think they say shoot cow milker or champion. 653 00:31:54,640 --> 00:31:58,480 Speaker 1: Champion, Yeah, like, but you rest your arm on that. 654 00:31:58,640 --> 00:32:00,000 Speaker 2: Oh yeah. 655 00:32:00,280 --> 00:32:02,080 Speaker 1: And then here's my other question for you while I 656 00:32:02,120 --> 00:32:05,320 Speaker 1: got here, Can you give me give me a layman 657 00:32:05,520 --> 00:32:09,240 Speaker 1: like a like a like a Joe blow, like a 658 00:32:09,320 --> 00:32:14,120 Speaker 1: Joe blow. Washington perspective on what's going on with the 659 00:32:14,320 --> 00:32:17,000 Speaker 1: with with the with your Guys Game Commission in Washington 660 00:32:17,120 --> 00:32:21,640 Speaker 1: funny you ask, can I can I give you further 661 00:32:21,720 --> 00:32:24,600 Speaker 1: endorsement please. Tommy is the kind of a hunter and 662 00:32:24,640 --> 00:32:29,880 Speaker 1: fishermen who instead of just sitting around complaining, follows and 663 00:32:30,000 --> 00:32:34,360 Speaker 1: is involved in his follows and isn't involved in his 664 00:32:34,400 --> 00:32:35,640 Speaker 1: states wildlife management. 665 00:32:36,760 --> 00:32:39,960 Speaker 5: Yeah, you keep yourself educated as most as best I can. 666 00:32:42,160 --> 00:32:44,600 Speaker 5: You said it best when you said Layman's because like 667 00:32:44,640 --> 00:32:48,320 Speaker 5: I don't. There's a lot I'm very trusting and that's 668 00:32:48,320 --> 00:32:51,920 Speaker 5: probably a problem given the current state of our commission. 669 00:32:52,680 --> 00:32:57,520 Speaker 5: Our commission has been a lot of guys that use 670 00:32:57,600 --> 00:32:59,680 Speaker 5: the word compromised, and a lot of guys use the 671 00:32:59,680 --> 00:33:05,080 Speaker 5: words infiltrated. But there's definitely some red flags going up 672 00:33:05,360 --> 00:33:07,080 Speaker 5: about what's going on in our commission. 673 00:33:07,720 --> 00:33:10,760 Speaker 1: And you guys have a governor appointed game commission of 674 00:33:10,800 --> 00:33:13,240 Speaker 1: how many folks nine folks nine folk? 675 00:33:13,800 --> 00:33:16,360 Speaker 5: That way, there can never be a split, you know, 676 00:33:17,080 --> 00:33:20,040 Speaker 5: typically it's x amount, or it's so many from the 677 00:33:20,080 --> 00:33:22,440 Speaker 5: eastern side of the state, and typically and so many 678 00:33:22,440 --> 00:33:26,240 Speaker 5: from the western side of the state. I think that 679 00:33:26,440 --> 00:33:30,040 Speaker 5: is that way because the western side of the state 680 00:33:30,160 --> 00:33:33,480 Speaker 5: tends to be standing in a different place than the 681 00:33:33,520 --> 00:33:36,400 Speaker 5: eastern side of the state as far as politics, and 682 00:33:36,440 --> 00:33:38,200 Speaker 5: it makes it in the past. 683 00:33:38,200 --> 00:33:42,320 Speaker 1: It's remember it if you looked at it on a 684 00:33:42,400 --> 00:33:46,959 Speaker 1: map and you imagine it split apart and the parts fell. 685 00:33:48,960 --> 00:33:52,440 Speaker 1: The side that would fall to the right correct leans 686 00:33:52,480 --> 00:33:55,120 Speaker 1: to the right. That's great way. I'm never going to 687 00:33:55,160 --> 00:33:55,520 Speaker 1: forget that. 688 00:33:55,400 --> 00:33:56,080 Speaker 2: That is a good way. 689 00:33:56,400 --> 00:33:58,920 Speaker 1: That is a side that falls to the left right. 690 00:33:59,640 --> 00:34:02,680 Speaker 5: There's uh, there's some serious like red flags and question 691 00:34:02,800 --> 00:34:06,880 Speaker 5: marks being raised in Washington's game commission as far as 692 00:34:07,440 --> 00:34:08,640 Speaker 5: decision making. 693 00:34:10,040 --> 00:34:13,680 Speaker 2: Totally ignoring the biologists that are paid to. 694 00:34:15,920 --> 00:34:18,000 Speaker 5: Do the studies they do to find out to come 695 00:34:18,000 --> 00:34:20,239 Speaker 5: to the facts we do. We lost our spring bear 696 00:34:20,320 --> 00:34:26,560 Speaker 5: season mm hmm, but like we don't. And it's because 697 00:34:27,600 --> 00:34:31,240 Speaker 5: interest groups. People that love animals don't want other people 698 00:34:31,280 --> 00:34:36,040 Speaker 5: that love animals killing animals is basically what it's coming to. 699 00:34:36,280 --> 00:34:39,160 Speaker 1: The approach they've taken is historically those game commissions have 700 00:34:39,200 --> 00:34:43,239 Speaker 1: been populated by people with skin in the game. I 701 00:34:43,280 --> 00:34:44,800 Speaker 1: mean that. I don't know if that's the point. I 702 00:34:44,840 --> 00:34:51,000 Speaker 1: think I know what you mean. Well, people from fisheries outfitters, right, 703 00:34:51,040 --> 00:34:54,560 Speaker 1: It's been people who are like who generally have It's 704 00:34:54,600 --> 00:34:58,040 Speaker 1: been people who come from varying perspectives that would be 705 00:34:58,200 --> 00:35:01,160 Speaker 1: in support of the general I idea of the North 706 00:35:01,200 --> 00:35:04,360 Speaker 1: American model of wildlife conservation, meaning that we have a 707 00:35:04,400 --> 00:35:09,320 Speaker 1: renewable resource that's like that wildlife is a citizen owned 708 00:35:10,000 --> 00:35:16,719 Speaker 1: renewable resource held in trust by an agency that assesses 709 00:35:16,760 --> 00:35:20,279 Speaker 1: and allocates the resource in a democratic fashion with an 710 00:35:20,360 --> 00:35:23,480 Speaker 1: eye toward people utilizing it but not damaging it in 711 00:35:23,520 --> 00:35:27,320 Speaker 1: the long term. And the new trend there is to 712 00:35:27,360 --> 00:35:30,040 Speaker 1: be like, well, there should be people on the Game 713 00:35:30,040 --> 00:35:32,960 Speaker 1: Commission who are opposed to hunting. There should be animal 714 00:35:33,040 --> 00:35:35,520 Speaker 1: rights people on the Game Commission. There should be zoo 715 00:35:35,600 --> 00:35:36,920 Speaker 1: keepers on the Game Commission. 716 00:35:36,920 --> 00:35:38,680 Speaker 2: Correct. Correct, And. 717 00:35:40,680 --> 00:35:44,480 Speaker 5: Where we're at now is that there's a new draft 718 00:35:44,520 --> 00:35:47,880 Speaker 5: policy and I think there's some litigation that's been done 719 00:35:48,320 --> 00:35:49,840 Speaker 5: or taken action against them. 720 00:35:51,600 --> 00:35:55,319 Speaker 2: As a rebuttal to this, to completely like. 721 00:35:55,360 --> 00:36:02,480 Speaker 5: Basically rewrite the goal for Department Official Wildlife's Commission in 722 00:36:02,520 --> 00:36:08,560 Speaker 5: and of itself, it's unfortunate, And look, I'm not the 723 00:36:08,560 --> 00:36:12,000 Speaker 5: best at when it comes to complaining about things. 724 00:36:12,040 --> 00:36:16,120 Speaker 2: I'm just not. I'll just find a way to do 725 00:36:16,200 --> 00:36:18,680 Speaker 2: what I want to do in a manner. 726 00:36:18,840 --> 00:36:24,480 Speaker 5: But so maybe I'm not the best spokesman. It's unfortunate 727 00:36:24,920 --> 00:36:27,640 Speaker 5: that now we don't have the luxury as sportsmen in 728 00:36:27,719 --> 00:36:30,160 Speaker 5: Washington to sit around on our laurels and just complain 729 00:36:30,200 --> 00:36:33,000 Speaker 5: about it because I as soon as I hear it 730 00:36:33,000 --> 00:36:35,080 Speaker 5: from somebody that I know for a fact is never 731 00:36:35,120 --> 00:36:40,480 Speaker 5: sent an email to the Commission, has never done the 732 00:36:40,480 --> 00:36:44,200 Speaker 5: homework or cited a study. That adds to the fact 733 00:36:44,200 --> 00:36:47,640 Speaker 5: that we're trying to work under the North American mettle 734 00:36:47,680 --> 00:36:50,640 Speaker 5: of water wildlife Management. Why are we going away from this? 735 00:36:51,040 --> 00:36:53,720 Speaker 5: Because that's what we're doing. I shut down and we're done. 736 00:36:53,880 --> 00:36:56,680 Speaker 5: We don't have the luxury of it anymore. We have 737 00:36:56,719 --> 00:37:00,160 Speaker 5: to be involved in Washington. We all have to. There's 738 00:37:00,200 --> 00:37:02,680 Speaker 5: no more finger pointing all the tribes took them all, 739 00:37:02,800 --> 00:37:04,919 Speaker 5: or all the fly fishermen are getting the best water. 740 00:37:05,640 --> 00:37:09,400 Speaker 2: We all have to get enough of that shit. We 741 00:37:09,480 --> 00:37:12,080 Speaker 2: all got to come together. That's enough of it. You know. 742 00:37:12,320 --> 00:37:14,880 Speaker 1: Well, I've talked a bunch like I'm a believer and slipper. 743 00:37:14,920 --> 00:37:18,000 Speaker 1: I'm a believer in slippery slopes. A lot of people aren't, 744 00:37:18,000 --> 00:37:19,600 Speaker 1: but I think there are, Like I think I think 745 00:37:19,600 --> 00:37:23,400 Speaker 1: Wildlife Management that there is a slippery slope. There's a 746 00:37:23,400 --> 00:37:27,000 Speaker 1: playbook that it goes by. You're generally going to go 747 00:37:27,080 --> 00:37:29,120 Speaker 1: after Like if you go and pull there. There's some 748 00:37:29,160 --> 00:37:33,799 Speaker 1: recent polling stuff recently some polling data that if you 749 00:37:33,880 --> 00:37:37,440 Speaker 1: phrase it a certain way, over eighty percent of Americans 750 00:37:37,480 --> 00:37:40,839 Speaker 1: support regulated Depending on how you phrase it, you can 751 00:37:40,840 --> 00:37:43,200 Speaker 1: get over eighty percent of Americans or maybe it's seventy 752 00:37:43,200 --> 00:37:47,320 Speaker 1: eight right now support regulated hunting and fishing. The minute 753 00:37:47,360 --> 00:37:52,719 Speaker 1: you put specificity, it goes down. So I say you 754 00:37:52,840 --> 00:37:55,440 Speaker 1: do you do you support scientific base regulated hunting and 755 00:37:55,480 --> 00:37:57,400 Speaker 1: fishing and be like, well, of course, And I'd be like, 756 00:37:57,400 --> 00:38:01,600 Speaker 1: do you support someone using a dog to hunt? Oh wow, 757 00:38:01,719 --> 00:38:04,080 Speaker 1: I don't know about that, right. 758 00:38:04,880 --> 00:38:07,680 Speaker 2: Do you support them using a gun? You know? 759 00:38:07,880 --> 00:38:10,040 Speaker 1: I don't know about that, right, So it starts the 760 00:38:10,120 --> 00:38:16,840 Speaker 1: specifics peel away, right the playbook and attacking hunting and 761 00:38:16,880 --> 00:38:23,320 Speaker 1: fishing is to peel out, to peel out the easy parts, 762 00:38:23,880 --> 00:38:26,480 Speaker 1: meaning you would never go you would never start a 763 00:38:26,520 --> 00:38:29,160 Speaker 1: group that, you would never start a group that was 764 00:38:29,200 --> 00:38:32,600 Speaker 1: out in front of whole foods collecting signatures to ban 765 00:38:34,120 --> 00:38:37,560 Speaker 1: hunting and fishing in Washington State. It'd be a fool's 766 00:38:37,640 --> 00:38:40,520 Speaker 1: Errand instead you'd go and be like, Okay, we're going 767 00:38:40,600 --> 00:38:43,920 Speaker 1: to go after spring bear season because there's the issue 768 00:38:43,920 --> 00:38:47,720 Speaker 1: of cubs. We're going to go after using dogs, because 769 00:38:47,760 --> 00:38:51,280 Speaker 1: there's a a in my view, completely like a completely 770 00:38:51,320 --> 00:38:55,320 Speaker 1: bogus argument of fair chase. We're going to go after 771 00:38:56,600 --> 00:39:01,200 Speaker 1: and then it'll be anything with dogs. Uh, we're gonna 772 00:39:01,200 --> 00:39:06,040 Speaker 1: go after steel traps, followed by conna bears and snares. 773 00:39:06,600 --> 00:39:10,120 Speaker 1: We're gonna go right and you you slowly dismantle it. Sure, 774 00:39:10,640 --> 00:39:13,040 Speaker 1: and if you if you understood, if you went and 775 00:39:13,080 --> 00:39:16,640 Speaker 1: looked at what the people driving that's private conversations are 776 00:39:16,680 --> 00:39:19,520 Speaker 1: Their private conversations aren't that they have a problem with 777 00:39:19,760 --> 00:39:23,120 Speaker 1: the particulars. The private conversation is that they have a 778 00:39:23,160 --> 00:39:24,879 Speaker 1: problem with the whole thing. But this is the most 779 00:39:24,880 --> 00:39:28,760 Speaker 1: productive way to go after it. I think too many people, 780 00:39:30,440 --> 00:39:33,239 Speaker 1: I think too many people that would that would articulate 781 00:39:33,400 --> 00:39:36,879 Speaker 1: a support for hunters and anglers would think that they're 782 00:39:36,920 --> 00:39:41,719 Speaker 1: never gonna get that as they whittle away, they're never 783 00:39:41,760 --> 00:39:46,399 Speaker 1: gonna get to the stuff. I like, right, you mean 784 00:39:46,400 --> 00:39:49,040 Speaker 1: you're like an upland bird hunter, you'd be saying yourself, 785 00:39:49,120 --> 00:39:51,040 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, but like they're never gonna like come around 786 00:39:51,040 --> 00:39:54,240 Speaker 1: for me, you know, So I'm not gonna get involved 787 00:39:54,239 --> 00:39:55,440 Speaker 1: because they're never gonna get to me. 788 00:39:55,680 --> 00:39:56,600 Speaker 2: That's exactly true. 789 00:39:56,840 --> 00:39:59,200 Speaker 1: Yeah, people think that way, But I think that if 790 00:39:59,239 --> 00:40:01,440 Speaker 1: you look at I think that if you do a 791 00:40:01,440 --> 00:40:04,719 Speaker 1: case study of some issues in Washington, you do a 792 00:40:04,719 --> 00:40:08,680 Speaker 1: case study of some issues in California. I think that 793 00:40:08,920 --> 00:40:16,360 Speaker 1: most anybody that does any extractive use of renewable natural resources, 794 00:40:16,400 --> 00:40:19,160 Speaker 1: like wildlife resources, would at some point be like, man, 795 00:40:19,239 --> 00:40:21,480 Speaker 1: I probably should start paying attention to this. 796 00:40:22,320 --> 00:40:24,160 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, it's. 797 00:40:26,200 --> 00:40:28,680 Speaker 5: You know, Monday mornings have become my mornings for what 798 00:40:28,719 --> 00:40:32,319 Speaker 5: I call hate mail. It's not because I'm sending off 799 00:40:32,400 --> 00:40:35,080 Speaker 5: nasty messages. It's because I hate the fact that I 800 00:40:35,120 --> 00:40:36,960 Speaker 5: have to sit down and spend twenty minutes on my 801 00:40:37,000 --> 00:40:41,800 Speaker 5: Monday mornings sending off these emails to these wildlife commissions 802 00:40:41,800 --> 00:40:42,680 Speaker 5: about this topic. 803 00:40:43,120 --> 00:40:45,320 Speaker 2: The only thing we can do, man, is just get involved. 804 00:40:46,400 --> 00:40:48,560 Speaker 2: You have to send off the you have to do it. 805 00:40:48,680 --> 00:40:51,279 Speaker 5: We have to do it in Washington anymore, because they're 806 00:40:51,280 --> 00:40:54,680 Speaker 5: gonna come. I mean, predators are up next. Commissioner Baker 807 00:40:54,719 --> 00:40:56,279 Speaker 5: has talked about it. I hate to name drop, but 808 00:40:56,320 --> 00:40:59,080 Speaker 5: it's true, has talked about want to do away with 809 00:40:59,160 --> 00:40:59,960 Speaker 5: coyote hunting. 810 00:41:00,480 --> 00:41:00,960 Speaker 2: Mm hmmm. 811 00:41:01,080 --> 00:41:01,520 Speaker 3: I mean. 812 00:41:02,960 --> 00:41:04,920 Speaker 2: Back last spring when we were having this spring bear 813 00:41:05,080 --> 00:41:07,680 Speaker 2: just discussion, they wanted to do away with any and 814 00:41:07,840 --> 00:41:08,920 Speaker 2: all spring hunting. 815 00:41:09,560 --> 00:41:12,480 Speaker 1: Yeah, and then turkeys, like do you know? 816 00:41:12,560 --> 00:41:15,440 Speaker 2: And then when that was brought up that I'm not 817 00:41:15,440 --> 00:41:17,440 Speaker 2: gonna name who in question brought that up, but they 818 00:41:17,440 --> 00:41:20,240 Speaker 2: didn't even know turkeys were hunted in the spring. 819 00:41:21,200 --> 00:41:23,960 Speaker 5: That's how far out of our square we have a 820 00:41:24,120 --> 00:41:26,120 Speaker 5: trying to fit a square through a round hole in 821 00:41:26,160 --> 00:41:27,040 Speaker 5: the block box. 822 00:41:27,360 --> 00:41:30,279 Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, I'm sorry, but what's the what's your 823 00:41:30,280 --> 00:41:31,759 Speaker 1: guys governor's stance been on this? 824 00:41:32,200 --> 00:41:34,120 Speaker 5: He's pretty silent on it, and he's the one to 825 00:41:34,120 --> 00:41:36,000 Speaker 5: put Yeah, it's best I can understand. 826 00:41:36,560 --> 00:41:40,600 Speaker 2: I think he's included in the litigation. I don't know. 827 00:41:41,120 --> 00:41:43,479 Speaker 1: It's uh, you know, like in the Constitution they say, 828 00:41:43,520 --> 00:41:47,440 Speaker 1: like the rules to be president, like you gotta be whatever, 829 00:41:47,520 --> 00:41:50,800 Speaker 1: forty sure, you gotta be born here and in America 830 00:41:50,960 --> 00:41:52,480 Speaker 1: they should be that you gotta hunt and fish. 831 00:41:54,000 --> 00:41:56,000 Speaker 2: I agree. If you're gonna make rules on it, you 832 00:41:56,000 --> 00:41:56,759 Speaker 2: should have to do it. 833 00:41:56,960 --> 00:41:59,640 Speaker 1: Yeah, don't have to worry about all this garbage. 834 00:41:59,719 --> 00:42:00,400 Speaker 2: I agree. 835 00:42:01,719 --> 00:42:04,120 Speaker 1: Thank you, Tommy, You're welcome. You got any more you 836 00:42:04,120 --> 00:42:06,680 Speaker 1: want to add? How much money could you win at 837 00:42:06,680 --> 00:42:08,360 Speaker 1: the best if you did the best, if you did like, 838 00:42:08,440 --> 00:42:10,719 Speaker 1: what's the possible winnings for the next rodeo. 839 00:42:12,239 --> 00:42:12,600 Speaker 2: Best. 840 00:42:12,840 --> 00:42:14,600 Speaker 1: Yeah, how much money was going that envelope you already 841 00:42:14,640 --> 00:42:14,920 Speaker 1: sent me. 842 00:42:15,040 --> 00:42:19,040 Speaker 5: I'm not gonna say more than one hundred and fifty bucks, 843 00:42:19,160 --> 00:42:20,800 Speaker 5: less than three hundred bucks. 844 00:42:20,840 --> 00:42:22,640 Speaker 1: So when it's all said and done, we have made 845 00:42:22,640 --> 00:42:24,400 Speaker 1: money or lost money, you'll make money. 846 00:42:24,600 --> 00:42:25,560 Speaker 2: You'll make a little money. 847 00:42:26,200 --> 00:42:26,439 Speaker 3: Good. 848 00:42:26,640 --> 00:42:29,640 Speaker 1: I don't want any kind of pencil pushers. No, no, no. 849 00:42:29,640 --> 00:42:31,360 Speaker 5: At the very high end of it. I think the 850 00:42:31,440 --> 00:42:33,040 Speaker 5: very high end of it. I think we're looking at 851 00:42:33,760 --> 00:42:35,200 Speaker 5: at least six hundred bucks. 852 00:42:35,600 --> 00:42:39,400 Speaker 1: Oh double. You're gonna have people lining up to invest 853 00:42:39,400 --> 00:42:41,840 Speaker 1: in you. Man, good, send three hundred to get in. 854 00:42:41,960 --> 00:42:43,480 Speaker 1: You can double your money. You can't do that on 855 00:42:43,520 --> 00:42:44,239 Speaker 1: the stop. I didn't. 856 00:42:44,320 --> 00:42:46,360 Speaker 2: I gave you that offer. That offer doesn't stand for 857 00:42:46,400 --> 00:42:50,319 Speaker 2: everybody else. Yeah, sponsorship changes. I might start keeping some 858 00:42:50,360 --> 00:42:50,840 Speaker 2: of the money. 859 00:42:50,880 --> 00:42:53,919 Speaker 1: We'll see, all right, Tommy, stay tuned, because you're gonna 860 00:42:53,920 --> 00:42:56,800 Speaker 1: have a lot to say about this big about this question. 861 00:42:58,440 --> 00:43:02,040 Speaker 1: Uh Zeb Hogan, host of Gels Monster Fish, author of 862 00:43:02,120 --> 00:43:05,520 Speaker 1: Chasing Giants in Search of the world's largest freshwater fish, 863 00:43:06,360 --> 00:43:11,560 Speaker 1: and United Nations Convention on Migratory Species Scientific counselor for 864 00:43:11,760 --> 00:43:13,680 Speaker 1: fish who came up with that title. Did you make 865 00:43:13,719 --> 00:43:14,279 Speaker 1: that title up? 866 00:43:14,719 --> 00:43:15,600 Speaker 3: No, they did. 867 00:43:16,680 --> 00:43:23,800 Speaker 1: The help title you would be the u n COOMSSCFF. 868 00:43:24,880 --> 00:43:29,040 Speaker 3: Yeah, that's only United Nations group I've ever been involved with, 869 00:43:29,080 --> 00:43:30,440 Speaker 3: but there are a lot of names like that. 870 00:43:30,600 --> 00:43:33,759 Speaker 1: Yeah, got it? So what uh I know, I know 871 00:43:33,800 --> 00:43:36,359 Speaker 1: you can't answer this. We can't answer this. But if 872 00:43:36,400 --> 00:43:38,080 Speaker 1: I come to you and I say, hey, man, what 873 00:43:38,280 --> 00:43:43,400 Speaker 1: is the world's biggest freshwater fish? Tell me all of 874 00:43:43,440 --> 00:43:45,800 Speaker 1: the hemin and han that needs to go into that answer. 875 00:43:46,800 --> 00:43:49,920 Speaker 3: Yeah, so that's how this all started. Yeah, I was 876 00:43:50,080 --> 00:43:52,400 Speaker 3: working in Thailand two thousand and five. Did my PhD 877 00:43:52,480 --> 00:43:58,239 Speaker 3: there on uh oh, migratory fish, migratory catfish of the 878 00:43:58,239 --> 00:44:02,160 Speaker 3: Maekong River. Yeah, looking at the impacted dams on migratory fish. 879 00:44:03,120 --> 00:44:06,080 Speaker 3: Most fish are migratory in the Maykong, so they're getting 880 00:44:06,160 --> 00:44:09,600 Speaker 3: like salmon, and so they're moving for what purpose for 881 00:44:09,680 --> 00:44:14,040 Speaker 3: spawning and also so the Maykong there's a huge flood pulse, 882 00:44:14,320 --> 00:44:17,919 Speaker 3: so water comes up increases tenfold in the rainy season 883 00:44:17,920 --> 00:44:21,880 Speaker 3: from the dry season, and the fish they spawn. Surgeon 884 00:44:21,880 --> 00:44:24,840 Speaker 3: will do the same thing, but they'll spawn during the 885 00:44:24,880 --> 00:44:27,760 Speaker 3: floods and all those fish get dispersed. 886 00:44:27,320 --> 00:44:29,160 Speaker 1: Downstream, they spawn up high. 887 00:44:29,280 --> 00:44:32,480 Speaker 3: Yeah, they spawn not not necessarily the headwaters, but like 888 00:44:33,239 --> 00:44:36,080 Speaker 3: in the upstream spawning areas, and then the fish all 889 00:44:36,120 --> 00:44:36,480 Speaker 3: go in the. 890 00:44:36,400 --> 00:44:39,160 Speaker 1: Floodplain tributaries are in the Meo. 891 00:44:38,800 --> 00:44:40,840 Speaker 3: In the Maykong or there's like a thousand species of 892 00:44:40,840 --> 00:44:43,239 Speaker 3: fish in the Makong, so they are they really Yeah, 893 00:44:43,280 --> 00:44:46,120 Speaker 3: so they do everything, but like a couple hundred. 894 00:44:46,200 --> 00:44:47,440 Speaker 2: A thousand species of fish. 895 00:44:47,560 --> 00:44:50,560 Speaker 3: Yeah, so more more species in the Maykong than they're 896 00:44:50,600 --> 00:44:51,720 Speaker 3: in the United States. 897 00:44:51,800 --> 00:44:52,040 Speaker 2: What. 898 00:44:53,680 --> 00:44:57,160 Speaker 3: Yeah, it's the second most diverse. Amazon has over four 899 00:44:57,200 --> 00:44:58,080 Speaker 3: thousand species. 900 00:44:58,600 --> 00:45:00,640 Speaker 2: Huh. That's man. 901 00:45:00,840 --> 00:45:04,840 Speaker 3: Tropical tropical big tropical rivers have a lot of different 902 00:45:04,880 --> 00:45:07,480 Speaker 3: kinds of fish and a lot of big fish. So 903 00:45:07,520 --> 00:45:09,719 Speaker 3: that's how I got involved. I was doing my PHDT 904 00:45:09,760 --> 00:45:12,719 Speaker 3: there working with local fishermen. The fisherman that I was 905 00:45:12,760 --> 00:45:16,440 Speaker 3: working with caught a six hundred and forty six pound 906 00:45:16,800 --> 00:45:21,160 Speaker 3: catfish and you saw it. I saw. This is how 907 00:45:21,160 --> 00:45:22,520 Speaker 3: I first got involved. So when I was doing my 908 00:45:22,520 --> 00:45:26,000 Speaker 3: PhD in nineteen ninety seven, I saw a fisherman catch 909 00:45:26,040 --> 00:45:28,720 Speaker 3: one of those fish for the first time, and I 910 00:45:28,719 --> 00:45:31,000 Speaker 3: I had no idea that fish got that big in 911 00:45:31,040 --> 00:45:34,040 Speaker 3: fresh water, Like you see something that big, four hundred, 912 00:45:34,040 --> 00:45:35,640 Speaker 3: five hundred pounds. The one I saw was like five 913 00:45:35,719 --> 00:45:39,680 Speaker 3: hundred pounds. I've seen many since then, but the first 914 00:45:39,719 --> 00:45:40,600 Speaker 3: one I saw was big. 915 00:45:40,719 --> 00:45:43,480 Speaker 1: And this is hook and liner net net. Okay, And 916 00:45:43,560 --> 00:45:45,440 Speaker 1: so that's so that's just making a mess out of 917 00:45:45,440 --> 00:45:45,839 Speaker 1: that net. 918 00:45:46,440 --> 00:45:50,080 Speaker 3: It's a big net. It it's just the meshes like that. 919 00:45:50,200 --> 00:45:52,880 Speaker 3: It's just a big only designed for that fish. 920 00:45:52,920 --> 00:45:54,000 Speaker 1: I s yeah, okay, okay. 921 00:45:54,440 --> 00:45:56,840 Speaker 3: So it's a traditional they've been fishing that way forever. 922 00:45:57,640 --> 00:46:01,319 Speaker 3: It's a only during that few weeks only using that 923 00:46:01,400 --> 00:46:04,759 Speaker 3: kind of net, specifically catching. 924 00:46:04,640 --> 00:46:06,279 Speaker 1: There after hogs after job. 925 00:46:06,440 --> 00:46:10,080 Speaker 3: Yeah. And there's a ceremony associated with it, really. Yeah. 926 00:46:10,239 --> 00:46:14,120 Speaker 1: And they're doing it for commercial purposes, like they're selling fish. 927 00:46:14,280 --> 00:46:17,200 Speaker 3: They sell it, no, but they only catch I mean, 928 00:46:17,280 --> 00:46:20,200 Speaker 3: the whole time I've been working with them, they probably 929 00:46:20,200 --> 00:46:22,680 Speaker 3: caught ten of them. So it's not like you're not 930 00:46:22,680 --> 00:46:23,560 Speaker 3: gonna make a lot of money. 931 00:46:23,640 --> 00:46:23,960 Speaker 1: Got it? 932 00:46:24,000 --> 00:46:24,319 Speaker 2: Got it? 933 00:46:25,760 --> 00:46:27,240 Speaker 3: So the first time I saw it was in nineteen 934 00:46:27,280 --> 00:46:29,560 Speaker 3: ninety seven. This is right up in the Golden Triangle area, 935 00:46:29,680 --> 00:46:32,600 Speaker 3: right where Thailand Laos and Miramar meat, so way up 936 00:46:32,640 --> 00:46:35,839 Speaker 3: in the northern part of Thailand. First time I saw 937 00:46:35,880 --> 00:46:38,640 Speaker 3: the fish was ninety seven. That's when I realized these 938 00:46:38,640 --> 00:46:41,960 Speaker 3: things were out there, got interested, started doing my PhD. 939 00:46:43,320 --> 00:46:46,200 Speaker 3: And then in two thousand and five, the same club, 940 00:46:46,320 --> 00:46:49,800 Speaker 3: like the same group of fishermen caught the six hundred 941 00:46:49,800 --> 00:46:52,520 Speaker 3: and forty six pound fish, and so that's when I 942 00:46:52,560 --> 00:46:54,279 Speaker 3: just asked the question that you've been asking with it, 943 00:46:54,320 --> 00:46:57,880 Speaker 3: which is is this the world's largest freshwater fish? 944 00:46:58,120 --> 00:46:59,920 Speaker 1: And how impressed were they by that fish? 945 00:47:00,080 --> 00:47:03,960 Speaker 3: They didn't they didn't realize it was the world's largest fish. 946 00:47:03,880 --> 00:47:07,839 Speaker 1: But I mean were they were they saying to themselves, no, 947 00:47:07,880 --> 00:47:09,560 Speaker 1: this is the biggest one we've ever heard of, or 948 00:47:09,560 --> 00:47:10,960 Speaker 1: they're like, oh, that's kind of what they're. 949 00:47:10,840 --> 00:47:13,520 Speaker 3: Like, that's kind of no. So the guys who caught it, 950 00:47:13,520 --> 00:47:17,239 Speaker 3: it's a team five guys, and they were on there. 951 00:47:17,280 --> 00:47:21,560 Speaker 3: They were students on their summer break, like young, young guys, 952 00:47:21,880 --> 00:47:24,960 Speaker 3: and they barred their uncle's boat, went out. You take turns, 953 00:47:25,120 --> 00:47:27,759 Speaker 3: so it's there's like one lane where you can drop 954 00:47:27,840 --> 00:47:31,439 Speaker 3: the net and the fishermen take turns. It's a floating net, 955 00:47:31,640 --> 00:47:33,720 Speaker 3: so you drop it, it floats down for like a coometer. 956 00:47:34,000 --> 00:47:35,719 Speaker 3: If you don't catch anything, you pull back in. The 957 00:47:35,760 --> 00:47:38,400 Speaker 3: next guy goes, next group goes, next group goes. So 958 00:47:38,440 --> 00:47:42,520 Speaker 3: these guys were young kids, like on their summer break 959 00:47:42,520 --> 00:47:46,759 Speaker 3: from school, and they happen to catch this fish. And 960 00:47:46,840 --> 00:47:50,200 Speaker 3: so the club had been keeping records of how big 961 00:47:50,200 --> 00:47:51,799 Speaker 3: the fish were that they caught all the way back 962 00:47:51,840 --> 00:47:54,080 Speaker 3: to like nineteen eighty and so I just went back 963 00:47:54,080 --> 00:47:56,200 Speaker 3: and looked at those records. I said, this is the 964 00:47:56,200 --> 00:47:57,720 Speaker 3: biggest one they've ever caught. 965 00:47:57,920 --> 00:47:58,400 Speaker 2: I gotcha. 966 00:47:58,760 --> 00:48:01,280 Speaker 3: They didn't to them. I mean, it was a big fish, 967 00:48:01,600 --> 00:48:04,759 Speaker 3: but you know they're all four or five, six hundred pounds. Yeah, 968 00:48:04,800 --> 00:48:07,960 Speaker 3: I'm with you, And so they didn't realize, and so 969 00:48:08,080 --> 00:48:11,080 Speaker 3: I sort of said, hey, is this the world's largest 970 00:48:11,080 --> 00:48:11,880 Speaker 3: freshwater fish? 971 00:48:12,280 --> 00:48:16,040 Speaker 1: Like is that? Like you were asking, is this specific 972 00:48:16,120 --> 00:48:17,600 Speaker 1: fish the world's large. 973 00:48:17,360 --> 00:48:20,000 Speaker 3: Biggest freshwater fish that's ever been caught? And so you 974 00:48:20,000 --> 00:48:23,879 Speaker 3: mentioned earlier like the definitions, there's only one for all 975 00:48:23,920 --> 00:48:28,560 Speaker 3: of this work. There's only one definition or only one criteria, 976 00:48:29,040 --> 00:48:31,320 Speaker 3: which is the fish has to spend its whole life 977 00:48:31,600 --> 00:48:32,279 Speaker 3: in fresh water. 978 00:48:32,719 --> 00:48:34,759 Speaker 1: Yeah, but I don't know how fair that is. That's 979 00:48:34,800 --> 00:48:36,359 Speaker 1: kind of one one of the main reasons I wanted 980 00:48:36,360 --> 00:48:38,800 Speaker 1: to ask you about it. So let me get kathaway 981 00:48:38,840 --> 00:48:44,080 Speaker 1: with it. For instance, Sure, Okay, when we were when 982 00:48:44,120 --> 00:48:49,880 Speaker 1: we were doing our Fishing Game cookbook, we had the 983 00:48:49,880 --> 00:48:53,279 Speaker 1: fish broken out saltwater fresh water, and it came up 984 00:48:53,320 --> 00:48:56,960 Speaker 1: with a question of salmon, right, and we debated back 985 00:48:56,960 --> 00:49:03,920 Speaker 1: and forth. Is it freshwater saltwater? My brother Danny studies 986 00:49:03,960 --> 00:49:07,120 Speaker 1: salmon the US Fish and Wildlife Service. I said, hey, man, 987 00:49:07,120 --> 00:49:09,120 Speaker 1: what do you think about it, Sam? Is it freshwater 988 00:49:09,239 --> 00:49:13,400 Speaker 1: salt water? And he said, you know, it spends the 989 00:49:13,400 --> 00:49:17,240 Speaker 1: bulk of its life in salt water, but it's born 990 00:49:17,520 --> 00:49:20,719 Speaker 1: and it dies in fresh water. So if I had 991 00:49:20,760 --> 00:49:24,719 Speaker 1: to put it somewhere, I would put it like like 992 00:49:24,920 --> 00:49:31,120 Speaker 1: those key that like key moment. I would put the 993 00:49:31,160 --> 00:49:33,439 Speaker 1: salmon in the freshwater section, which is what we did. 994 00:49:33,440 --> 00:49:34,719 Speaker 1: By God, But. 995 00:49:34,719 --> 00:49:36,600 Speaker 3: Why do you why do you have to choose? Why 996 00:49:36,600 --> 00:49:37,279 Speaker 3: do you have to pick? 997 00:49:38,160 --> 00:49:40,560 Speaker 1: Because the cookbooks only we didn't want to make it. 998 00:49:41,040 --> 00:49:42,759 Speaker 1: We didn't want to make a category that had like 999 00:49:42,840 --> 00:49:46,879 Speaker 1: bull sharks, salmon and straight baths or I don't know whatever. Yeah, 1000 00:49:47,000 --> 00:49:48,120 Speaker 1: you know in American eels. 1001 00:49:48,200 --> 00:49:51,239 Speaker 3: Yeah, So this, like the criteria is just it's just 1002 00:49:51,280 --> 00:49:54,400 Speaker 3: for the I'm a research professor at the University of Aderina. 1003 00:49:54,440 --> 00:49:57,000 Speaker 1: So you guys like you guys like the off you skate. 1004 00:49:57,120 --> 00:50:01,800 Speaker 3: No, but it's not it's not splitting. It's a simple 1005 00:50:01,800 --> 00:50:06,400 Speaker 3: criteria that fish, that particular fish has had to be 1006 00:50:06,719 --> 00:50:09,520 Speaker 3: spent its whole life in freshwater. That's the only criteria. 1007 00:50:09,560 --> 00:50:11,440 Speaker 1: Okay, how do you know one of them I want 1008 00:50:11,480 --> 00:50:12,680 Speaker 1: to move on from this, But how do you know 1009 00:50:12,719 --> 00:50:15,239 Speaker 1: that one of them big ass cats didn't one day 1010 00:50:15,320 --> 00:50:18,120 Speaker 1: go down and get into brackish water. 1011 00:50:18,200 --> 00:50:20,360 Speaker 3: Well that's what that's what that's what we study. 1012 00:50:20,400 --> 00:50:21,480 Speaker 1: Okay, what happened? 1013 00:50:21,760 --> 00:50:22,200 Speaker 3: They don't? 1014 00:50:22,600 --> 00:50:23,400 Speaker 1: Oh, all right, there you go. 1015 00:50:25,360 --> 00:50:26,239 Speaker 2: I think the interview is over. 1016 00:50:26,280 --> 00:50:29,319 Speaker 3: They just don't. 1017 00:50:29,880 --> 00:50:31,200 Speaker 1: They don't like brackish water. 1018 00:50:31,719 --> 00:50:36,160 Speaker 3: Some fish do. But you know, the point or the 1019 00:50:36,520 --> 00:50:38,640 Speaker 3: sort of the work that I do, and the point 1020 00:50:38,680 --> 00:50:41,279 Speaker 3: of the asking the question was that if you if 1021 00:50:41,320 --> 00:50:43,440 Speaker 3: you just ask, okay, what's the biggest freshwater fish? Then 1022 00:50:43,440 --> 00:50:47,879 Speaker 3: you have white surgeon bluga surgeon in Europe they can 1023 00:50:47,920 --> 00:50:49,080 Speaker 3: get like three thousand pounds. 1024 00:50:49,080 --> 00:50:52,960 Speaker 1: So what's the great lake surgeon? Lake surgeon that they 1025 00:50:53,040 --> 00:50:54,040 Speaker 1: just not contenders. 1026 00:50:54,440 --> 00:50:56,919 Speaker 3: They don't get big enough. But okay, but they only 1027 00:50:56,960 --> 00:50:59,320 Speaker 3: fresh water yeakay, so there's actually they would count for you. 1028 00:50:59,640 --> 00:51:03,640 Speaker 3: Soty River in northern Idaho has a population of white 1029 00:51:03,680 --> 00:51:06,680 Speaker 3: surgeon that does not go down to the ocean. 1030 00:51:07,280 --> 00:51:10,560 Speaker 7: So does the Snake River, Yeah, because of the dams. Yeah, 1031 00:51:10,960 --> 00:51:14,319 Speaker 7: oh yeah, that's another that's anotherness there. But there are 1032 00:51:14,360 --> 00:51:18,400 Speaker 7: some sturgeon that choose not to go to it's just 1033 00:51:18,440 --> 00:51:21,439 Speaker 7: their ecology, okay, yeah, and so one of those could 1034 00:51:21,440 --> 00:51:22,000 Speaker 7: be a contender. 1035 00:51:22,120 --> 00:51:24,680 Speaker 1: Or do you have to not because the species will 1036 00:51:24,680 --> 00:51:25,400 Speaker 1: go to saltwater? 1037 00:51:25,800 --> 00:51:26,799 Speaker 3: The fish just the fish. 1038 00:51:26,920 --> 00:51:29,080 Speaker 1: Yeah, you're interested in the individual fish. 1039 00:51:29,080 --> 00:51:31,440 Speaker 3: But as a way to learn about all these fish, 1040 00:51:31,520 --> 00:51:34,439 Speaker 3: like the the reason why this is an interesting question, 1041 00:51:34,520 --> 00:51:36,840 Speaker 3: Like I didn't I didn't know what I was asking 1042 00:51:36,840 --> 00:51:39,120 Speaker 3: when I said, Hey, is this the world's largest freshwater fish? 1043 00:51:39,360 --> 00:51:42,400 Speaker 3: What makes it interesting is we don't know, and we 1044 00:51:42,440 --> 00:51:44,960 Speaker 3: don't know anything about these fish. So there are probably 1045 00:51:45,280 --> 00:51:48,640 Speaker 3: forty species of fish that get over six feet long 1046 00:51:48,719 --> 00:51:50,560 Speaker 3: or weigh more than two hundred pounds in fresh water 1047 00:51:51,280 --> 00:51:54,919 Speaker 3: in the world out and they're over fifteen thousand freshwater fish. 1048 00:51:55,000 --> 00:51:58,799 Speaker 3: So you're talking like just a small number of fish that. 1049 00:51:59,640 --> 00:52:02,120 Speaker 2: Hit me in North America. Hit me with what we got. 1050 00:52:02,040 --> 00:52:05,440 Speaker 3: Alligator gar white white sturgeons. 1051 00:52:05,440 --> 00:52:09,080 Speaker 1: Also back up on the parameter six feet in length and. 1052 00:52:09,120 --> 00:52:14,359 Speaker 8: What was the way or over two hundred pounds either 1053 00:52:14,400 --> 00:52:16,600 Speaker 8: six feet long or over two hundred pounds, and we 1054 00:52:16,680 --> 00:52:23,160 Speaker 8: got go ahead. Alligator gar, alligator gar, Mississippi American paddlefish, white, 1055 00:52:23,239 --> 00:52:27,759 Speaker 8: certain populations of white sturgeon, lake sturgeon. Some people say 1056 00:52:27,760 --> 00:52:29,839 Speaker 8: Colorado pike minnow used to get that big. They don't 1057 00:52:29,880 --> 00:52:34,640 Speaker 8: really anymore, But that's North America's largest minnow. About blue 1058 00:52:34,640 --> 00:52:38,840 Speaker 8: cats blue cat, blue cats and flathead get. 1059 00:52:38,719 --> 00:52:40,960 Speaker 3: Up to about one hundred what's the record these days? 1060 00:52:41,040 --> 00:52:42,920 Speaker 3: I think the records about hundred fifty pounds. 1061 00:52:42,640 --> 00:52:44,280 Speaker 1: So they don't break, they don't break. 1062 00:52:44,520 --> 00:52:46,880 Speaker 3: But you read like old like Mark Twain, or you 1063 00:52:46,920 --> 00:52:50,000 Speaker 3: read old accounts from eighteen hundreds. There are accounts of 1064 00:52:50,239 --> 00:52:52,960 Speaker 3: catfish that big you don't know whether, you don't know what. 1065 00:52:53,120 --> 00:52:55,959 Speaker 1: Like hawk Finn looking at it there and he says 1066 00:52:55,960 --> 00:52:57,000 Speaker 1: it's two hundred pounds. 1067 00:52:57,080 --> 00:53:00,360 Speaker 5: What about What about the old tales about guys in 1068 00:53:00,400 --> 00:53:04,040 Speaker 5: the eighteen hundreds dragon white sturgeon out of the Columbia 1069 00:53:04,080 --> 00:53:05,160 Speaker 5: with teams all, Oh, yeah. 1070 00:53:05,080 --> 00:53:07,319 Speaker 3: Yeah, that's true as far as I know. Yeah, I 1071 00:53:07,320 --> 00:53:10,479 Speaker 3: mean surgeon, white surgeon fifteen feet. 1072 00:53:11,320 --> 00:53:13,080 Speaker 1: But those are saltwater fish, though. 1073 00:53:13,440 --> 00:53:15,839 Speaker 3: They're fish that don't spend their whole lives with fresh water. 1074 00:53:16,880 --> 00:53:19,799 Speaker 3: They're they're they're an adamus fish. They move back and forth. 1075 00:53:19,920 --> 00:53:21,960 Speaker 3: There's not there are lots of fish like that, but 1076 00:53:22,040 --> 00:53:23,920 Speaker 3: the ones that move back and forth they can get 1077 00:53:23,920 --> 00:53:28,040 Speaker 3: bigger because they typically when fish are out in the ocean, 1078 00:53:28,239 --> 00:53:30,120 Speaker 3: generally they have access to more food and. 1079 00:53:30,400 --> 00:53:33,239 Speaker 1: God, they're able to utilize marine resources. And yeah, okay, 1080 00:53:33,480 --> 00:53:35,879 Speaker 1: so go on on the numbers. 1081 00:53:36,040 --> 00:53:40,080 Speaker 3: Oh so yeah, so it's just a small number. I 1082 00:53:40,080 --> 00:53:41,239 Speaker 3: think that's it. So, I mean. 1083 00:53:41,160 --> 00:53:42,760 Speaker 1: There's I thought there's fifteen. 1084 00:53:44,480 --> 00:53:47,120 Speaker 3: They're there are like thirty or forty big fish all 1085 00:53:47,120 --> 00:53:49,279 Speaker 3: over the world, Okay, and there we have it in 1086 00:53:49,320 --> 00:53:50,799 Speaker 3: the US we have five or six. 1087 00:53:50,800 --> 00:53:53,799 Speaker 1: Oh I'm sorry, I thought fifteen, and they get really big. 1088 00:53:53,960 --> 00:53:58,920 Speaker 1: So just a small little collection. Yeah, let me just 1089 00:53:58,960 --> 00:54:00,440 Speaker 1: there's the thing I can't move on from because I 1090 00:54:00,520 --> 00:54:02,040 Speaker 1: want to understand it. You know, when you hear a 1091 00:54:02,080 --> 00:54:06,799 Speaker 1: crazy story and you probably know this better then some 1092 00:54:06,920 --> 00:54:07,799 Speaker 1: bull shark go away? 1093 00:54:07,800 --> 00:54:08,239 Speaker 3: The hell? Up? 1094 00:54:08,239 --> 00:54:09,800 Speaker 1: The how far did a bull shark go up? With 1095 00:54:09,800 --> 00:54:11,520 Speaker 1: the Mississippi so like Illinois. 1096 00:54:11,560 --> 00:54:14,800 Speaker 3: I had a book when I was a kid that's 1097 00:54:14,840 --> 00:54:17,759 Speaker 3: had them in the Great Lakes. I think they're I 1098 00:54:17,800 --> 00:54:19,799 Speaker 3: don't want I don't want to say something that's not true. 1099 00:54:19,800 --> 00:54:21,879 Speaker 3: But the book I had when I was little said 1100 00:54:21,880 --> 00:54:23,000 Speaker 3: that they made it all the way up to the 1101 00:54:23,520 --> 00:54:26,160 Speaker 3: way up they will, is there that's unusual? 1102 00:54:26,400 --> 00:54:28,600 Speaker 1: Yeah, no, very unusual, right, But I'm just it's a 1103 00:54:28,600 --> 00:54:34,520 Speaker 1: physiology question. Yeah, if you look at a shark that 1104 00:54:34,640 --> 00:54:37,239 Speaker 1: they can go and spend like we're in at least 1105 00:54:37,280 --> 00:54:45,400 Speaker 1: an individual can go and spend presumably months in fresh water. Uh, physiologically, 1106 00:54:46,840 --> 00:54:51,000 Speaker 1: like could two of them go what? Why can't two 1107 00:54:51,040 --> 00:54:53,080 Speaker 1: of them go up and reproduce in fresh water? Or 1108 00:54:53,120 --> 00:54:54,960 Speaker 1: is it or is it open that they maybe could 1109 00:54:55,200 --> 00:55:00,000 Speaker 1: or like, like what what winds up happening to them? 1110 00:55:00,440 --> 00:55:03,560 Speaker 3: Bull Sharks as far as I know, don't breed in freshwater, 1111 00:55:03,680 --> 00:55:06,759 Speaker 3: So it is physiological, but I don't know why that is. 1112 00:55:06,800 --> 00:55:09,759 Speaker 3: They're they're very adaptable. They can live in saltwater, they 1113 00:55:09,760 --> 00:55:12,880 Speaker 3: can live in fresh water. They don't breed in freshwater 1114 00:55:13,560 --> 00:55:14,239 Speaker 3: as far as I know. 1115 00:55:14,600 --> 00:55:17,280 Speaker 1: Well, yeah, there has to be some barrier because they're 1116 00:55:18,040 --> 00:55:21,520 Speaker 1: there's not reproducing populations of them up in the Great 1117 00:55:21,560 --> 00:55:23,680 Speaker 1: Lakes whatever, yeah, yeah, or wherever the hell, right, So 1118 00:55:23,719 --> 00:55:26,600 Speaker 1: there's some like reason why it doesn't work, but it's 1119 00:55:26,640 --> 00:55:28,000 Speaker 1: that's not well understood now. 1120 00:55:28,160 --> 00:55:30,840 Speaker 3: But you have another. So three of the largest freshwater 1121 00:55:30,880 --> 00:55:34,200 Speaker 3: fish are freshwater stingrays, which are related to sharks, and 1122 00:55:34,760 --> 00:55:37,160 Speaker 3: the species I study the most is just a species 1123 00:55:37,200 --> 00:55:40,960 Speaker 3: in Southeast Asia get over six hundred pounds freshwater stingray 1124 00:55:41,000 --> 00:55:44,080 Speaker 3: and it breeds in freshwater, so it it'll do that 1125 00:55:44,200 --> 00:55:46,560 Speaker 3: every every every fish is different, yep. 1126 00:55:47,440 --> 00:55:49,960 Speaker 1: And the fact that you can take this is always 1127 00:55:49,960 --> 00:55:54,600 Speaker 1: puzzled me as well. Is that you can take stripe bass, 1128 00:55:55,560 --> 00:55:59,000 Speaker 1: which are right, it's an anagamous fish spent a lot 1129 00:55:59,040 --> 00:56:02,840 Speaker 1: of time in brackish water, can spawn in purely fresh water. 1130 00:56:03,400 --> 00:56:05,160 Speaker 1: But then you can take them one day and throw 1131 00:56:05,200 --> 00:56:08,040 Speaker 1: them into some reservoir and they don't even change tune. 1132 00:56:09,160 --> 00:56:11,960 Speaker 3: Right, Yeah, yeah, I mean some fish have the ability to. 1133 00:56:12,960 --> 00:56:15,520 Speaker 1: It's just I don't know, it's hard to understand how 1134 00:56:15,560 --> 00:56:16,040 Speaker 1: that could be. 1135 00:56:16,239 --> 00:56:18,880 Speaker 3: Right, Yeah, we have and I live in Nevada right now. 1136 00:56:18,920 --> 00:56:21,080 Speaker 3: We have Lahan cut through trout. They can live in 1137 00:56:21,160 --> 00:56:23,839 Speaker 3: brackish water, and so that's actually like they're they get 1138 00:56:23,880 --> 00:56:27,919 Speaker 3: really big in Pyramid Lake near near Reno, and that's 1139 00:56:27,960 --> 00:56:31,319 Speaker 3: actually what's one of the things that's kept them in 1140 00:56:31,320 --> 00:56:34,120 Speaker 3: that lake is that, like we invasive species haven't been 1141 00:56:34,160 --> 00:56:36,759 Speaker 3: able to get into the lake because it's brackish, got it. 1142 00:56:36,960 --> 00:56:40,520 Speaker 3: So they're like rainbows browns in the river that flows 1143 00:56:40,520 --> 00:56:43,480 Speaker 3: into Pyramid, but they can't survive in the brackish water. 1144 00:56:43,840 --> 00:56:46,080 Speaker 1: So that's how they get it for themselves. Yeah, oh no, 1145 00:56:46,160 --> 00:56:47,319 Speaker 1: kidd okay. 1146 00:56:46,960 --> 00:56:48,960 Speaker 3: It works with some fish as advantage. 1147 00:56:49,080 --> 00:56:51,640 Speaker 1: All right, So pick a back up. I can't remember 1148 00:56:51,680 --> 00:56:54,520 Speaker 1: where I left you fish. 1149 00:56:55,000 --> 00:56:58,680 Speaker 3: So the so the book, it starts with the catch 1150 00:56:58,840 --> 00:57:03,239 Speaker 3: of the world record fish. And so what I've been 1151 00:57:03,280 --> 00:57:05,240 Speaker 3: working on for the last twenty years is just trying 1152 00:57:05,280 --> 00:57:09,120 Speaker 3: to travel all around the world together as much information 1153 00:57:09,160 --> 00:57:11,479 Speaker 3: as possible about these big fish because, like you said, 1154 00:57:11,520 --> 00:57:15,279 Speaker 3: like seventy percent of them are endangered with extinction. So 1155 00:57:15,440 --> 00:57:17,720 Speaker 3: some of them are like all the Meekong species are 1156 00:57:19,120 --> 00:57:20,520 Speaker 3: basically on the brink of extinction. 1157 00:57:20,840 --> 00:57:21,120 Speaker 2: Really. 1158 00:57:21,360 --> 00:57:25,680 Speaker 3: Yeah, And so my kind of where my background is 1159 00:57:25,760 --> 00:57:28,480 Speaker 3: working in Southeast Asia. Maekong has like seven or eight 1160 00:57:29,000 --> 00:57:32,880 Speaker 3: really big species of freshwater fish. And then Mongolia, which 1161 00:57:32,920 --> 00:57:35,520 Speaker 3: has the world's largest trout species. Yeah, what's that fish 1162 00:57:35,600 --> 00:57:36,240 Speaker 3: called timen? 1163 00:57:36,600 --> 00:57:36,960 Speaker 1: Yeah? 1164 00:57:37,040 --> 00:57:42,480 Speaker 3: Yeah? Is the arapaima airpima's one yeah, yeah. 1165 00:57:42,480 --> 00:57:42,800 Speaker 1: One of them. 1166 00:57:42,840 --> 00:57:46,520 Speaker 3: Yeah. So it's like a diverse assemblage of fish air 1167 00:57:46,600 --> 00:57:49,520 Speaker 3: breathing arapaima. You know in South America. South America has 1168 00:57:49,720 --> 00:57:51,440 Speaker 3: short tailed sting ray, which you get up to like 1169 00:57:51,480 --> 00:57:55,400 Speaker 3: five hundred pounds. So what it like most people never 1170 00:57:55,400 --> 00:57:58,560 Speaker 3: heard of short tailed river ray, but that's like, that's 1171 00:57:58,560 --> 00:57:59,680 Speaker 3: one of the biggest fish. 1172 00:57:59,440 --> 00:58:02,200 Speaker 1: I've seen in South America. I've seen a bunch of 1173 00:58:02,200 --> 00:58:03,640 Speaker 1: the big ass yeah yeah yeah. 1174 00:58:03,840 --> 00:58:05,920 Speaker 3: And then big catfish they can get up to like 1175 00:58:06,040 --> 00:58:08,640 Speaker 3: four or five hundred pounds that migrate from the foothills 1176 00:58:08,640 --> 00:58:11,080 Speaker 3: of the Andes and then they'll migrate all the way 1177 00:58:11,120 --> 00:58:13,360 Speaker 3: down to the Amazon Estuary and all the way back 1178 00:58:13,600 --> 00:58:15,680 Speaker 3: just like seven several thousand kilometers. 1179 00:58:16,200 --> 00:58:18,680 Speaker 1: Does the surruby catfish get up to two hundred. 1180 00:58:18,840 --> 00:58:22,120 Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, uh huh yeah, like in Argentina, 1181 00:58:22,360 --> 00:58:24,600 Speaker 3: are there all over actually, oh yeah, they'll get that 1182 00:58:24,640 --> 00:58:26,160 Speaker 3: big cool fish. 1183 00:58:26,320 --> 00:58:29,120 Speaker 1: And how many does the mekong have to get that 1184 00:58:29,520 --> 00:58:31,360 Speaker 1: the hill criteria. 1185 00:58:30,880 --> 00:58:34,320 Speaker 3: Like seven or eight? So giant freshwater sting right, yeah, 1186 00:58:34,480 --> 00:58:39,200 Speaker 3: giant catfish, child catfish, seven stripe bar wallago catfish, a 1187 00:58:39,200 --> 00:58:42,040 Speaker 3: lot of more catfish. Big carp the world's largest carp species. 1188 00:58:42,240 --> 00:58:43,600 Speaker 3: You can get up to ten feet long. 1189 00:58:44,040 --> 00:58:47,880 Speaker 1: No, yeah, what like what makes that river so product? Like, 1190 00:58:47,920 --> 00:58:48,800 Speaker 1: what makes it so that. 1191 00:58:49,080 --> 00:58:51,360 Speaker 3: It's a big river? No one, No one really knows, 1192 00:58:51,400 --> 00:58:54,040 Speaker 3: because they should. If it just went by numbers of fish, 1193 00:58:54,040 --> 00:58:56,920 Speaker 3: then the Amazon should have more. But for whatever reason, 1194 00:58:57,680 --> 00:59:01,360 Speaker 3: the may Kong has the most and it's like super productive. 1195 00:59:01,680 --> 00:59:04,640 Speaker 3: There's a giant lake in the Mekong called the Tonelysop Lake, 1196 00:59:05,240 --> 00:59:08,200 Speaker 3: which is huge, like you know, one of our great lakes, 1197 00:59:08,200 --> 00:59:11,160 Speaker 3: but it's in the dry season like two meters deep. 1198 00:59:11,200 --> 00:59:14,480 Speaker 3: So it's basically just a big flooded area that the 1199 00:59:14,520 --> 00:59:17,800 Speaker 3: fish all move into in the rainy season and feed 1200 00:59:17,840 --> 00:59:19,320 Speaker 3: and get big, and then they move back out to 1201 00:59:19,360 --> 00:59:20,440 Speaker 3: the river in the dry season. 1202 00:59:20,680 --> 00:59:21,120 Speaker 2: Got it? 1203 00:59:21,560 --> 00:59:24,800 Speaker 3: So no one knows for sure. Tropical big tropical rivers 1204 00:59:24,840 --> 00:59:27,600 Speaker 3: with lots of different kinds of fish, you'd expect to 1205 00:59:27,680 --> 00:59:28,520 Speaker 3: have big fish too. 1206 00:59:28,640 --> 00:59:34,160 Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, So does have had you uncovered since that work? 1207 00:59:34,240 --> 00:59:36,720 Speaker 1: Have you uncovered one that top six forty six that 1208 00:59:36,800 --> 00:59:37,600 Speaker 1: hits the definition? 1209 00:59:38,120 --> 00:59:38,480 Speaker 3: Yeah? 1210 00:59:38,880 --> 00:59:39,120 Speaker 1: Really? 1211 00:59:39,280 --> 00:59:42,600 Speaker 3: So the book ends with the catch in two thousand 1212 00:59:42,640 --> 00:59:44,440 Speaker 3: and five, or no, it starts with the catching two 1213 00:59:44,480 --> 00:59:48,160 Speaker 3: thousand and five and then ends with the new record breaker. 1214 00:59:48,480 --> 00:59:52,840 Speaker 3: And what is that giant freshwater stingery? Oh, six hundred 1215 00:59:52,840 --> 00:59:53,640 Speaker 3: and sixty one. 1216 00:59:53,520 --> 00:59:54,840 Speaker 1: Pounds oh barely. 1217 00:59:54,920 --> 00:59:57,680 Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, I mean where it come out of, out 1218 00:59:57,720 --> 01:00:01,400 Speaker 3: of in Cambodia. Yeah. And the cool my favorite part 1219 01:00:01,400 --> 01:00:04,120 Speaker 3: of that story is that in two thousand and five, 1220 01:00:04,240 --> 01:00:08,960 Speaker 3: the catfish was that giant catfish was killed, you know, 1221 01:00:09,120 --> 01:00:12,200 Speaker 3: fair enough, but critically in danger species. So that catfish 1222 01:00:12,240 --> 01:00:15,680 Speaker 3: was killed and sold for meat. We were working in 1223 01:00:15,720 --> 01:00:18,800 Speaker 3: Thailand or in Cambodia this last year and working with 1224 01:00:18,840 --> 01:00:21,840 Speaker 3: the fishermen, and we made a deal with them that hey, 1225 01:00:22,120 --> 01:00:24,760 Speaker 3: we want to tag this fish for research, and so 1226 01:00:24,800 --> 01:00:28,760 Speaker 3: when they caught it, they gave us a call, we 1227 01:00:28,800 --> 01:00:30,720 Speaker 3: went out. We're able to tag it and we like 1228 01:00:30,800 --> 01:00:33,040 Speaker 3: are falling around right now, so we know, so we 1229 01:00:33,080 --> 01:00:33,640 Speaker 3: know where it is. 1230 01:00:33,760 --> 01:00:35,640 Speaker 1: So I want to I want to back up on 1231 01:00:35,680 --> 01:00:40,280 Speaker 1: that catfish. In what form are they selling it? They're 1232 01:00:40,280 --> 01:00:42,400 Speaker 1: butchering it into selling by the poun I mean, not 1233 01:00:42,440 --> 01:00:44,880 Speaker 1: the pound, but you know what I mean, Like yeah. 1234 01:00:44,480 --> 01:00:48,280 Speaker 3: Yeah, in Thailand for whatever reason, So back up a 1235 01:00:48,320 --> 01:00:51,160 Speaker 3: little bit. Like in Thailand the meat is very prized 1236 01:00:51,320 --> 01:00:55,040 Speaker 3: and it's said to have certain qualities long life or 1237 01:00:55,080 --> 01:00:56,400 Speaker 3: I'm not exactly sure. 1238 01:00:56,720 --> 01:01:00,240 Speaker 2: Yeah, on those big catfish specifically. 1239 01:00:59,760 --> 01:01:02,040 Speaker 1: Yeah, have you eaten them? Yeah? 1240 01:01:02,160 --> 01:01:04,120 Speaker 2: Were they good tastes? 1241 01:01:04,160 --> 01:01:07,440 Speaker 3: Like catfish. Yeah yeah, I mean yeah, they're good, I 1242 01:01:07,440 --> 01:01:10,920 Speaker 3: mean most Yeah, but he can't tell like someone told 1243 01:01:10,960 --> 01:01:13,840 Speaker 3: me it was actually like a tourism thing, like it 1244 01:01:13,920 --> 01:01:17,120 Speaker 3: wasn't actually like a real traditional belief that it was 1245 01:01:17,160 --> 01:01:19,680 Speaker 3: some part of a tourism campaign or something. I don't know, 1246 01:01:19,720 --> 01:01:22,200 Speaker 3: I see that. But in any way, in Thailand, it's 1247 01:01:22,280 --> 01:01:24,600 Speaker 3: very expensive. So like we were working with fishermen up 1248 01:01:24,600 --> 01:01:26,400 Speaker 3: there tagged. We did tag a few fish up there. 1249 01:01:26,560 --> 01:01:29,440 Speaker 3: One fish would sell for like two thousand bucks, which 1250 01:01:30,040 --> 01:01:32,800 Speaker 3: you know that's in like nineteen nineties. That's a lot 1251 01:01:32,800 --> 01:01:34,400 Speaker 3: of money. It felt like a lot of money at 1252 01:01:34,440 --> 01:01:34,800 Speaker 3: the time. 1253 01:01:34,720 --> 01:01:36,720 Speaker 2: The equivalent of two thousand US dollars. 1254 01:01:36,960 --> 01:01:39,920 Speaker 3: Yeah. Wow, it was like twenty thirty bucks a kilo 1255 01:01:40,080 --> 01:01:45,240 Speaker 3: or something or yeah, just as flays yeah yeah, yeah yeah. 1256 01:01:45,520 --> 01:01:47,920 Speaker 3: So it would be butchered and then sold a lot 1257 01:01:47,920 --> 01:01:51,240 Speaker 3: of times. The restaurants or you know that even send 1258 01:01:51,240 --> 01:01:55,880 Speaker 3: it to restaurants like in Bangkok or like not local restaurants. 1259 01:01:55,560 --> 01:01:59,280 Speaker 1: And the people buying it are they care. 1260 01:01:59,160 --> 01:01:59,640 Speaker 2: What it is? 1261 01:01:59,800 --> 01:02:01,160 Speaker 3: Yeah, that's why it's where so much. 1262 01:02:01,440 --> 01:02:03,800 Speaker 1: Yeah, it's not just like generic fish. It's like the 1263 01:02:03,840 --> 01:02:05,400 Speaker 1: big ass crazy catfish. 1264 01:02:05,520 --> 01:02:09,640 Speaker 3: Yeah. But in Cambodia. So this is I actually kind 1265 01:02:09,640 --> 01:02:12,720 Speaker 3: of shifted work to Cambodi because in Cambodia it doesn't 1266 01:02:12,720 --> 01:02:16,000 Speaker 3: have any special significance and in fact, people don't like it. 1267 01:02:16,320 --> 01:02:19,120 Speaker 3: So in Cambodia it was fifty cents of kilo. So, 1268 01:02:19,360 --> 01:02:20,800 Speaker 3: and what I was doing is I was I was 1269 01:02:20,840 --> 01:02:22,800 Speaker 3: working with the fishermen. I would compensate them for the 1270 01:02:22,800 --> 01:02:25,640 Speaker 3: fish whatever they could get market rate, and then tag 1271 01:02:25,680 --> 01:02:27,120 Speaker 3: it and release it so we could follow it. 1272 01:02:27,200 --> 01:02:28,800 Speaker 1: Oh really, so you'd buy it off of them. 1273 01:02:28,840 --> 01:02:30,840 Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, so, but in Cambodia I could do that, 1274 01:02:31,120 --> 01:02:32,280 Speaker 3: but in Thailand. 1275 01:02:31,920 --> 01:02:33,480 Speaker 1: It was still exportant. You'd burn your budget. 1276 01:02:33,560 --> 01:02:33,800 Speaker 2: Yeah. 1277 01:02:33,960 --> 01:02:36,360 Speaker 1: So, and then how much of those fish moving? 1278 01:02:37,080 --> 01:02:41,400 Speaker 3: They migrate at least six seven hundred kilometers. I mean 1279 01:02:41,440 --> 01:02:43,640 Speaker 3: they're making big, big migrations. They'll move out of that 1280 01:02:43,680 --> 01:02:46,520 Speaker 3: big lake down in the Maykong and then way up 1281 01:02:46,520 --> 01:02:47,160 Speaker 3: into the may Kong. 1282 01:02:47,960 --> 01:02:50,920 Speaker 2: Are they spawning way up in the Mekong and finer water? 1283 01:02:51,200 --> 01:02:53,320 Speaker 3: Yeah yeah, yeah yeah, so they'll find like that. It 1284 01:02:53,360 --> 01:02:55,920 Speaker 3: seems like they like Rocky, like they the Tony Stop 1285 01:02:55,960 --> 01:02:59,360 Speaker 3: and the lower Maykong is all kind of silty, and 1286 01:02:59,400 --> 01:03:01,320 Speaker 3: they seemed like they go up in these deep pools. 1287 01:03:01,520 --> 01:03:03,600 Speaker 3: The Makon can be up to two hundred fifty feet deep, 1288 01:03:04,200 --> 01:03:06,680 Speaker 3: so really deep, and uh, it seems like they're like 1289 01:03:06,720 --> 01:03:09,600 Speaker 3: those deep pool areas. Say that again, two hundred and 1290 01:03:09,600 --> 01:03:10,240 Speaker 3: fifty feet deep. 1291 01:03:10,320 --> 01:03:11,439 Speaker 2: Yeah, the Mekong River. 1292 01:03:11,600 --> 01:03:15,400 Speaker 3: Yeah, so the Congo is over seven hundred feet deep. 1293 01:03:16,640 --> 01:03:21,360 Speaker 3: So some of these river yeah really exactly true. Yeah, 1294 01:03:21,560 --> 01:03:25,400 Speaker 3: but yeah, but the make make the cool thing about 1295 01:03:25,440 --> 01:03:28,720 Speaker 3: the Maykong. I didn't even appreciate this. We we start 1296 01:03:28,760 --> 01:03:31,040 Speaker 3: started doing some filming in these deep pools last year, 1297 01:03:31,400 --> 01:03:34,600 Speaker 3: so we'd send came cameras down. You get down like 1298 01:03:34,880 --> 01:03:40,080 Speaker 3: ten feet are like twenty feet. It's completely dark because 1299 01:03:40,120 --> 01:03:42,880 Speaker 3: the water is silty. So you get down like we 1300 01:03:42,960 --> 01:03:43,920 Speaker 3: tried scuba diving. 1301 01:03:44,920 --> 01:03:45,120 Speaker 2: Sit. 1302 01:03:45,240 --> 01:03:49,280 Speaker 3: Yeah. But yeah, it's just y'all. I always, you know, 1303 01:03:49,320 --> 01:03:51,480 Speaker 3: I'm always seeing the fish at the surface, and even 1304 01:03:51,520 --> 01:03:54,640 Speaker 3: when we're doing our research and stuff, we were always 1305 01:03:54,720 --> 01:03:57,680 Speaker 3: seeing these fish like they live in a in the 1306 01:03:57,720 --> 01:04:01,040 Speaker 3: total darkness. I don't know. I just I just didn't 1307 01:04:01,720 --> 01:04:04,400 Speaker 3: didn't compute to me. Before we actually sent cameras down, 1308 01:04:04,440 --> 01:04:07,520 Speaker 3: We're like, oh man, it's in The fish are down 1309 01:04:07,520 --> 01:04:08,400 Speaker 3: there like doing their. 1310 01:04:08,240 --> 01:04:12,560 Speaker 1: Things, smelling and feeling. Yeah, I can't see squat you ever, 1311 01:04:14,120 --> 01:04:16,360 Speaker 1: I'm guessing you never tried to noodle one of them, 1312 01:04:16,360 --> 01:04:16,880 Speaker 1: big son. 1313 01:04:17,440 --> 01:04:24,760 Speaker 3: So have you ever done that? So I did it, 1314 01:04:24,840 --> 01:04:27,520 Speaker 3: like not in the not in the Maykong, but in 1315 01:04:27,520 --> 01:04:30,720 Speaker 3: in the US. And it's actually like I I it's 1316 01:04:30,720 --> 01:04:35,120 Speaker 3: a like a real rodeo. Yeah, like it's no, So 1317 01:04:36,440 --> 01:04:37,919 Speaker 3: I didn't. I just went out with people who knew 1318 01:04:37,920 --> 01:04:39,920 Speaker 3: how to do it. But like you dive down, you do. 1319 01:04:40,040 --> 01:04:43,040 Speaker 3: It's teams, teams, three person teams a lot of times, 1320 01:04:43,720 --> 01:04:46,320 Speaker 3: and you dive down and the fish grunt. They make 1321 01:04:46,360 --> 01:04:48,040 Speaker 3: a noise when you get close to them, so that's 1322 01:04:48,040 --> 01:04:50,920 Speaker 3: and you can't see anything. And so the fish grunt 1323 01:04:51,160 --> 01:04:53,520 Speaker 3: and you know, like usually they're under rock or something. 1324 01:04:53,560 --> 01:04:56,000 Speaker 3: And the people you get around it and then one 1325 01:04:56,040 --> 01:05:01,280 Speaker 3: person agrees to stick their hand in the fish's mouth 1326 01:05:01,920 --> 01:05:03,240 Speaker 3: and then you just pull it out. But it's like 1327 01:05:03,280 --> 01:05:07,080 Speaker 3: a real I mean talking about while cow milking, like yep, 1328 01:05:07,680 --> 01:05:10,440 Speaker 3: it's like noodleing. It's like a real real thing. 1329 01:05:10,960 --> 01:05:14,360 Speaker 7: It looks it looks funny, but but that's not practiced. 1330 01:05:14,400 --> 01:05:17,040 Speaker 1: And uh, there's no version of that that you found. 1331 01:05:17,080 --> 01:05:22,000 Speaker 3: And no, no, for most catfish, the easiest place to 1332 01:05:22,040 --> 01:05:24,720 Speaker 3: grab them is on the mouth. So even in the Maykong, 1333 01:05:24,840 --> 01:05:28,880 Speaker 3: like when we handle the fish, we just grab it 1334 01:05:28,920 --> 01:05:31,960 Speaker 3: like it's lip. The Maykong giant catfish doesn't have any teeth. 1335 01:05:32,520 --> 01:05:35,560 Speaker 3: The Wells catfish in Europe, that's Europe's largest freshwater fish. 1336 01:05:35,760 --> 01:05:39,080 Speaker 3: It does have kind of teeth, and we also grab 1337 01:05:39,080 --> 01:05:41,600 Speaker 3: it by the mouth. But you'll get your you'll get your. 1338 01:05:41,960 --> 01:05:53,040 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, why did they want that big? Do they 1339 01:05:53,080 --> 01:05:55,280 Speaker 1: do they butcher those big sting rays or is that 1340 01:05:55,400 --> 01:05:56,640 Speaker 1: just bycatch. 1341 01:05:56,840 --> 01:05:58,640 Speaker 3: Every in the In the Maykong amazon is a little 1342 01:05:58,640 --> 01:06:02,120 Speaker 3: bit different. In the Maykong, everything is eaten, so it 1343 01:06:02,160 --> 01:06:05,080 Speaker 3: doesn't like there's nothing that they catch that that they 1344 01:06:05,080 --> 01:06:09,240 Speaker 3: don't eat. So yeah, so the sting ray would be butchered. 1345 01:06:09,560 --> 01:06:13,920 Speaker 3: The crazy thing about the sting ray is that like 1346 01:06:14,080 --> 01:06:16,640 Speaker 3: big and this is just human part of it's like 1347 01:06:16,720 --> 01:06:21,160 Speaker 3: human nature. These big fish people seem to have a 1348 01:06:21,240 --> 01:06:27,040 Speaker 3: reverence for even if it's not like religious, you're around 1349 01:06:27,040 --> 01:06:29,240 Speaker 3: a fish that big, and it's just it's pretty special. 1350 01:06:29,840 --> 01:06:33,080 Speaker 3: And so even though it's not illegal to catch the 1351 01:06:33,120 --> 01:06:37,840 Speaker 3: sting ray, people will usually keep it pretty quiet and 1352 01:06:37,960 --> 01:06:41,560 Speaker 3: like everything, like catch it at night. It gets butchered 1353 01:06:41,600 --> 01:06:43,200 Speaker 3: and you see it in the market. The next morning, 1354 01:06:43,280 --> 01:06:45,960 Speaker 3: but you don't. Actually, it's actually was really hard to 1355 01:06:46,040 --> 01:06:47,720 Speaker 3: get information about that fish. 1356 01:06:47,880 --> 01:06:51,080 Speaker 1: Like there's a sort of taskit and acknowledgement that it's 1357 01:06:51,120 --> 01:06:53,640 Speaker 1: like you probably shouldn't have cut that one up. 1358 01:06:54,000 --> 01:06:57,040 Speaker 3: Yeah, but like for our for my I mean for 1359 01:06:57,120 --> 01:07:00,920 Speaker 3: my work, I get it. I I workretty much exclusively 1360 01:07:00,960 --> 01:07:04,760 Speaker 3: with with fishermen who are fishing for food. So I 1361 01:07:04,760 --> 01:07:06,640 Speaker 3: mean that's one of the reasons we compensate the fishermen 1362 01:07:06,760 --> 01:07:09,840 Speaker 3: is because otherwise, why would they why would they want 1363 01:07:09,840 --> 01:07:10,440 Speaker 3: to work with us? 1364 01:07:10,480 --> 01:07:16,520 Speaker 1: You know, in Guyana, they like there was there's red 1365 01:07:16,800 --> 01:07:22,400 Speaker 1: redtail cabs a couple times that I've been down there, 1366 01:07:22,400 --> 01:07:24,640 Speaker 1: Like they'll they'll kill that one and cook it. Yeah, 1367 01:07:25,440 --> 01:07:28,440 Speaker 1: the srubies they'll kill and cook. But then there's one 1368 01:07:28,480 --> 01:07:30,120 Speaker 1: I wish you probably you might know the name of it. 1369 01:07:30,160 --> 01:07:33,120 Speaker 1: There's a big dark one they called Toro. It's like, 1370 01:07:33,160 --> 01:07:35,280 Speaker 1: a yeah, that's it Jiu. I forgot the other name 1371 01:07:35,680 --> 01:07:38,120 Speaker 1: there's They thought maybe I would know it as Toro, 1372 01:07:38,280 --> 01:07:44,440 Speaker 1: which is like the like from Spanish infusion. Yeah, jau uh. 1373 01:07:44,480 --> 01:07:47,800 Speaker 1: They don't kill that one like these like they when 1374 01:07:47,800 --> 01:07:50,480 Speaker 1: we hooked one of those there, it was just kind 1375 01:07:50,520 --> 01:07:51,080 Speaker 1: of and then. 1376 01:07:52,280 --> 01:07:54,040 Speaker 3: Yeah, those are cool fish there they want that one 1377 01:07:54,120 --> 01:07:57,400 Speaker 3: kill h they're they're like more rare, So maybe there's 1378 01:07:57,520 --> 01:07:59,160 Speaker 3: you know, there's yah, it's just. 1379 01:07:59,200 --> 01:08:00,480 Speaker 1: Kind of you know, we had all kinds of other 1380 01:08:00,520 --> 01:08:03,400 Speaker 1: fish like no, no, that's not one though, I mean 1381 01:08:03,400 --> 01:08:04,680 Speaker 1: its enormous. 1382 01:08:04,920 --> 01:08:07,920 Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean maybe they don't taste good. I don't know. 1383 01:08:08,080 --> 01:08:09,480 Speaker 1: Well, I don't know. They just kind of had a 1384 01:08:09,520 --> 01:08:12,560 Speaker 1: different different you know, like there's like a language barrier 1385 01:08:12,600 --> 01:08:14,640 Speaker 1: so you can't really establish what it is, but there 1386 01:08:14,720 --> 01:08:16,519 Speaker 1: was that was something that Yeah, it was kind of 1387 01:08:16,520 --> 01:08:19,360 Speaker 1: like like the same way. I don't know, but I 1388 01:08:19,400 --> 01:08:21,599 Speaker 1: don't want to use the word taboo. There's just things 1389 01:08:21,640 --> 01:08:23,760 Speaker 1: that would seem edible that they don't eat. The same way. 1390 01:08:23,800 --> 01:08:25,479 Speaker 1: If you were walking around here and someone's like, why 1391 01:08:25,520 --> 01:08:29,080 Speaker 1: are you not eating that dog? Be like, how do 1392 01:08:29,120 --> 01:08:31,640 Speaker 1: I even explain why we're not eating that dog? You know, 1393 01:08:32,160 --> 01:08:35,280 Speaker 1: with this big ass caffish, there's just not well, let's. 1394 01:08:35,040 --> 01:08:36,880 Speaker 3: And you bring it up. Like in Cambodia, there's the 1395 01:08:36,880 --> 01:08:39,760 Speaker 3: same feeling. So people feel like if they kill a 1396 01:08:39,800 --> 01:08:42,599 Speaker 3: giant catfish and it's a make make giant catfish, it's 1397 01:08:42,640 --> 01:08:46,120 Speaker 3: one species, there's a belief that if they kill it 1398 01:08:46,280 --> 01:08:50,040 Speaker 3: they'll get bad luck, and like it kind of is 1399 01:08:50,040 --> 01:08:52,839 Speaker 3: self fulfilling. I've seen it a lot of times someone 1400 01:08:52,840 --> 01:08:55,479 Speaker 3: will catch one and then within like a week they'll 1401 01:08:55,479 --> 01:08:58,280 Speaker 3: have a death in the family or something really bad 1402 01:08:58,280 --> 01:09:01,880 Speaker 3: will happen. And it's hard to you know, it's it 1403 01:09:02,000 --> 01:09:05,720 Speaker 3: doesn't seem like it would really be actual bad luck. 1404 01:09:05,760 --> 01:09:09,880 Speaker 3: But they always associate if they actually do keep one 1405 01:09:09,880 --> 01:09:14,080 Speaker 3: of those fish, sure they always find something drollable. Yeah, 1406 01:09:14,160 --> 01:09:16,559 Speaker 3: and they like recognize that. And so we've actually started 1407 01:09:16,560 --> 01:09:19,439 Speaker 3: to see the fishermen in Cambodia just with that one species, 1408 01:09:19,479 --> 01:09:21,120 Speaker 3: they'll release them on their own. 1409 01:09:21,680 --> 01:09:24,920 Speaker 1: So what like, what could you say is true? Is 1410 01:09:24,960 --> 01:09:32,760 Speaker 1: it always a different culprit or if globally we're imperiling 1411 01:09:33,200 --> 01:09:37,960 Speaker 1: or globally we're damaging and potentially losing giant freshwater fish, 1412 01:09:38,040 --> 01:09:41,720 Speaker 1: Is it just like a different enemy in every ecosystem 1413 01:09:41,880 --> 01:09:44,439 Speaker 1: or is there are there general truths? 1414 01:09:44,600 --> 01:09:50,160 Speaker 3: It's mainly dams really, So yeah, that because like overfishing, 1415 01:09:51,360 --> 01:09:57,160 Speaker 3: overfishing very rarely causes extinctions, so it'll you could get 1416 01:09:57,160 --> 01:10:00,400 Speaker 3: the population down really low. But with fish at least, 1417 01:10:00,439 --> 01:10:03,920 Speaker 3: it's very rare that you could like catch the last ones. 1418 01:10:04,439 --> 01:10:07,680 Speaker 3: It's just hard, like these big systems. So fishing is 1419 01:10:07,760 --> 01:10:12,200 Speaker 3: usually not the culprit in terms of extinction. It's usually 1420 01:10:12,240 --> 01:10:13,080 Speaker 3: something that changes. 1421 01:10:13,280 --> 01:10:15,760 Speaker 1: Then it can drive scarcity, but yeah, doesn't. 1422 01:10:15,560 --> 01:10:20,360 Speaker 3: Drive like the disappearance. And so like with dams, they're 1423 01:10:20,560 --> 01:10:25,080 Speaker 3: it's blocking spawning habitat changes water temperature messes up their 1424 01:10:25,120 --> 01:10:28,320 Speaker 3: spawning cues. So you see this like the Chinese paddlefish, 1425 01:10:28,360 --> 01:10:30,000 Speaker 3: which is a fish that could get up to like 1426 01:10:30,040 --> 01:10:33,880 Speaker 3: twenty feet long, just went extinct like two years ago 1427 01:10:34,040 --> 01:10:35,679 Speaker 3: because of three wards. 1428 01:10:35,720 --> 01:10:37,960 Speaker 1: I mean, I didn't know about the damn fish, but yeah, 1429 01:10:38,000 --> 01:10:40,160 Speaker 1: really yeah, so talking about that fish then. 1430 01:10:40,320 --> 01:10:42,760 Speaker 3: So Chinese paddlefish one of two species of Have you 1431 01:10:42,800 --> 01:10:45,200 Speaker 3: ever seen an American paddlefish? Yeah, so they're cool, right, 1432 01:10:45,240 --> 01:10:49,000 Speaker 3: I mean, so Chinese paddlefish was a predator. American paddlefish 1433 01:10:49,000 --> 01:10:52,040 Speaker 3: are like filter feeders. No, they when they open up 1434 01:10:52,040 --> 01:10:54,320 Speaker 3: their mouths, it looks like a basking shark or something. 1435 01:10:54,560 --> 01:10:57,680 Speaker 3: The Chinese paddlefish was a predator more like a billfish, 1436 01:10:58,240 --> 01:11:01,360 Speaker 3: and it would use it like a sharp paddle, and 1437 01:11:01,400 --> 01:11:04,240 Speaker 3: it would use that paddle to hunt, and. 1438 01:11:04,200 --> 01:11:06,479 Speaker 1: It was actually going after catfish and whatever else. 1439 01:11:06,560 --> 01:11:09,000 Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, probably yeah, carp catfish. 1440 01:11:08,960 --> 01:11:11,040 Speaker 2: And grew to twenty feet long. 1441 01:11:11,160 --> 01:11:13,880 Speaker 3: Yeah, no, kid, Yeah, but the last one that was 1442 01:11:13,920 --> 01:11:16,440 Speaker 3: seen was like early two thousands. 1443 01:11:16,080 --> 01:11:17,479 Speaker 1: When they built that big ass dam. 1444 01:11:17,560 --> 01:11:20,439 Speaker 3: They built two big dams, Kazuba and three Gorges. Three 1445 01:11:20,439 --> 01:11:24,160 Speaker 3: Gorges is the really big one. And those dams just 1446 01:11:24,200 --> 01:11:27,200 Speaker 3: made it impossible for the paddlefish to survive to spawn. 1447 01:11:27,280 --> 01:11:30,120 Speaker 3: It must have blocked there. They couldn't access where they 1448 01:11:30,200 --> 01:11:31,040 Speaker 3: need to spawn anymore. 1449 01:11:31,080 --> 01:11:33,240 Speaker 1: And did someone point out that this is a question 1450 01:11:33,280 --> 01:11:35,840 Speaker 1: I've had about the dams we've done on the you know, 1451 01:11:35,960 --> 01:11:37,920 Speaker 1: the dams we've done on the Columbia system and the 1452 01:11:37,920 --> 01:11:41,640 Speaker 1: others were was there someone that said, uh, you know, 1453 01:11:42,760 --> 01:11:46,880 Speaker 1: if you do that, that fish will be gone? Was 1454 01:11:46,880 --> 01:11:47,719 Speaker 1: that a known thing? 1455 01:11:49,360 --> 01:11:51,479 Speaker 3: I don't know. I wonder what people knew one hundred 1456 01:11:51,520 --> 01:11:52,760 Speaker 3: years ago. We know that now. 1457 01:11:53,439 --> 01:11:57,479 Speaker 1: But no, no, I'm talking no, no, I've asked that 1458 01:11:57,560 --> 01:12:03,160 Speaker 1: question many times around salmon. There was always a way 1459 01:12:03,280 --> 01:12:06,519 Speaker 1: that that there was probably in people's bag that there's 1460 01:12:06,520 --> 01:12:09,759 Speaker 1: always a way people felt they could explain away ways 1461 01:12:09,760 --> 01:12:12,400 Speaker 1: in which it wasn't the end of salmon because it 1462 01:12:12,520 --> 01:12:16,160 Speaker 1: was gonna be ladder, you know whatever. No one would 1463 01:12:16,400 --> 01:12:19,040 Speaker 1: there was no one saying like and yes, this will 1464 01:12:19,080 --> 01:12:21,680 Speaker 1: be the end of King Salmon or in yes, this 1465 01:12:21,720 --> 01:12:25,320 Speaker 1: will be the end of that run. They didn't put 1466 01:12:25,360 --> 01:12:29,080 Speaker 1: it like it wasn't laid out like that sort of arrangement. 1467 01:12:30,040 --> 01:12:32,400 Speaker 3: You know, maybe it never maybe it never is. Yeah, 1468 01:12:32,479 --> 01:12:34,280 Speaker 3: we used to have King Sammon and Nevada, believe it 1469 01:12:34,400 --> 01:12:36,960 Speaker 3: or not. We used to have runs that came all 1470 01:12:36,960 --> 01:12:37,639 Speaker 3: the way up to Snake. 1471 01:12:37,960 --> 01:12:42,800 Speaker 1: Yeah. But with these newer dams in China, you know, 1472 01:12:42,880 --> 01:12:44,760 Speaker 1: it wasn't know you would that they would blink this 1473 01:12:44,800 --> 01:12:45,960 Speaker 1: fish out. 1474 01:12:46,320 --> 01:12:49,000 Speaker 3: The biologists know, but you know. 1475 01:12:50,400 --> 01:12:52,680 Speaker 1: We tend not to listen to those guys. Yeah, exactly 1476 01:12:52,800 --> 01:12:57,479 Speaker 1: when it comes to they never get invited to the 1477 01:12:57,520 --> 01:12:58,160 Speaker 1: last meeting. 1478 01:12:59,720 --> 01:13:01,640 Speaker 3: That's that's true. I mean I could laugh about it, 1479 01:13:01,680 --> 01:13:06,200 Speaker 3: but it's true. Like they're stronger interests at play. But 1480 01:13:06,320 --> 01:13:08,080 Speaker 3: on the Maykong it's and you know this happened on 1481 01:13:08,080 --> 01:13:12,000 Speaker 3: the Columbia too. It's like what you really want. So 1482 01:13:12,040 --> 01:13:15,320 Speaker 3: you know, there's just I think salmon populations are like 1483 01:13:15,320 --> 01:13:16,800 Speaker 3: ten percent of what they used to be on the 1484 01:13:16,800 --> 01:13:18,920 Speaker 3: Columbia or whatever. But Maykong is the same way. Like 1485 01:13:19,280 --> 01:13:22,479 Speaker 3: two million tons of fish produced by the Maykong River 1486 01:13:22,520 --> 01:13:26,719 Speaker 3: every year. So if you're gonna build dams, Like think 1487 01:13:26,800 --> 01:13:30,840 Speaker 3: about that, because there's it's like they're so important, so 1488 01:13:30,880 --> 01:13:33,280 Speaker 3: that what you want is like not to be totally ignored, 1489 01:13:33,920 --> 01:13:36,920 Speaker 3: but just like okay, hey, we'll take we won't build 1490 01:13:36,960 --> 01:13:38,800 Speaker 3: the worst ones. We won't build the ones that are 1491 01:13:38,800 --> 01:13:41,960 Speaker 3: going to collapse of fishery or cause extinctions of all 1492 01:13:41,960 --> 01:13:44,719 Speaker 3: these fish whatever. So that's I mean, that's and my work, 1493 01:13:44,840 --> 01:13:47,439 Speaker 3: that's basically what I do is just to try to 1494 01:13:47,520 --> 01:13:50,400 Speaker 3: provide information about all these fish so that like the 1495 01:13:50,439 --> 01:13:53,040 Speaker 3: worst dams aren't built. 1496 01:13:53,800 --> 01:13:56,880 Speaker 1: So you can go in and say, here's this, here's 1497 01:13:56,880 --> 01:13:59,040 Speaker 1: this species of fish, Here's what its life history is, 1498 01:13:59,360 --> 01:14:02,960 Speaker 1: here's what it's habitat needs are. If you do this that, 1499 01:14:04,120 --> 01:14:06,000 Speaker 1: here's the price you'll pay. Yeah, do with it what 1500 01:14:06,040 --> 01:14:06,320 Speaker 1: you will. 1501 01:14:06,360 --> 01:14:09,120 Speaker 3: Yeah. And that's happening right now. So in Cambodia, this 1502 01:14:09,640 --> 01:14:14,559 Speaker 3: world's largest sting ray is just swimming around. It's actually 1503 01:14:14,560 --> 01:14:18,240 Speaker 3: in a small area that's protected by the local community. 1504 01:14:18,360 --> 01:14:21,800 Speaker 3: It's right between two of these big proposed dams where 1505 01:14:21,840 --> 01:14:24,920 Speaker 3: it lives just stuck there. Well, no, the dams aren't there, 1506 01:14:25,280 --> 01:14:27,240 Speaker 3: so it's just swiming around happy. I mean, it doesn't 1507 01:14:27,240 --> 01:14:30,080 Speaker 3: know any difference. But so and that's an area where 1508 01:14:30,240 --> 01:14:33,000 Speaker 3: hundreds of fish spawn. It supports the whole fishery for 1509 01:14:33,080 --> 01:14:36,639 Speaker 3: the Mekong River. And they're right now there's a debate 1510 01:14:36,680 --> 01:14:39,280 Speaker 3: do we build these dams or oh, I'm sorry, yeah, 1511 01:14:39,360 --> 01:14:42,080 Speaker 3: or protect area. So the decisions that you're talking about 1512 01:14:42,400 --> 01:14:43,920 Speaker 3: there that's happening right. 1513 01:14:43,800 --> 01:14:46,080 Speaker 1: Well, where are they leaning If you had to guess, 1514 01:14:46,120 --> 01:14:47,320 Speaker 1: if you had the crystal ball. 1515 01:14:47,720 --> 01:14:50,719 Speaker 3: The Cambodian government has said no dams before twenty thirty. 1516 01:14:51,439 --> 01:14:53,559 Speaker 3: So that's good. It's good in the sense that they're 1517 01:14:53,600 --> 01:15:00,400 Speaker 3: always altern you know, technology improves, alternatives could them up. 1518 01:15:00,439 --> 01:15:04,200 Speaker 3: So it's as far as like that type of development 1519 01:15:04,200 --> 01:15:06,760 Speaker 3: decision energy, it's always good if it happens in the 1520 01:15:06,760 --> 01:15:08,280 Speaker 3: future because things are always improving. 1521 01:15:08,520 --> 01:15:12,599 Speaker 1: Yeah. Isn't it a funny kind of reverse colonialism that 1522 01:15:12,640 --> 01:15:19,640 Speaker 1: we have a little bit where we've uh really effectively 1523 01:15:19,760 --> 01:15:24,479 Speaker 1: developed our country and created this economic powerhouse and all 1524 01:15:24,520 --> 01:15:29,120 Speaker 1: this infrastructure and dams and the ability to generate so 1525 01:15:29,280 --> 01:15:35,479 Speaker 1: much electricity and be global players, and then you then 1526 01:15:35,600 --> 01:15:40,240 Speaker 1: go to the developing world and and uh and say, man, 1527 01:15:43,120 --> 01:15:47,280 Speaker 1: I'm here to tell you not to do the things 1528 01:15:47,280 --> 01:15:47,679 Speaker 1: we did. 1529 01:15:48,320 --> 01:15:53,920 Speaker 3: Yeah, well, because you're yeah, exactly no. But it feels 1530 01:15:53,920 --> 01:15:58,400 Speaker 3: that way. Yeah, but it's not don't do it. It's like, hey, 1531 01:15:59,000 --> 01:16:01,040 Speaker 3: because I mean I'm trying to think of an example 1532 01:16:01,479 --> 01:16:03,080 Speaker 3: in the US. I mean, we're starting to bring down 1533 01:16:03,120 --> 01:16:05,320 Speaker 3: some of our dams in the US that are like 1534 01:16:05,400 --> 01:16:09,000 Speaker 3: the ones that don't generate very much electricity or that 1535 01:16:09,400 --> 01:16:11,360 Speaker 3: totally messed up the fishery. 1536 01:16:11,439 --> 01:16:13,200 Speaker 1: We're taking them down fast, and we're putting them up. 1537 01:16:13,439 --> 01:16:15,920 Speaker 3: Yeah, but we had our one hundred years of you know, 1538 01:16:16,080 --> 01:16:19,080 Speaker 3: building a lot of good and I don't know good 1539 01:16:19,080 --> 01:16:21,400 Speaker 3: and bad dams whatever. But I think what the goal 1540 01:16:21,560 --> 01:16:26,519 Speaker 3: is in places that are still developing and building a 1541 01:16:26,560 --> 01:16:29,599 Speaker 3: lot of these dams is just don't, like, you know, 1542 01:16:30,439 --> 01:16:33,680 Speaker 3: using the best information that's out there, just try to 1543 01:16:33,680 --> 01:16:38,000 Speaker 3: make the best you know, like maximize benefit, minimized cost. 1544 01:16:38,439 --> 01:16:42,639 Speaker 3: I'm with you, rather than like, hey, you can't do this, rather. 1545 01:16:42,560 --> 01:16:44,880 Speaker 1: Be that you can and if you do it this way, 1546 01:16:45,040 --> 01:16:46,479 Speaker 1: you'll decrease the damage. 1547 01:16:46,520 --> 01:16:49,479 Speaker 3: And anyway, like if or biologists, you know, if some 1548 01:16:49,560 --> 01:16:51,479 Speaker 3: of it doesn't do much good to say you can't 1549 01:16:51,520 --> 01:16:53,840 Speaker 3: do this anyway, I mean, no one listens to just 1550 01:16:53,880 --> 01:16:56,559 Speaker 3: say hey you can't, you can't do this. You have 1551 01:16:56,640 --> 01:16:59,120 Speaker 3: to say why you have to. I mean fisheries are 1552 01:16:59,240 --> 01:17:06,879 Speaker 3: everyone relies on fisheries there, so they like yeah, oh yeah, breakfast, 1553 01:17:06,920 --> 01:17:07,400 Speaker 3: lunch and dinner. 1554 01:17:07,479 --> 01:17:09,920 Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, I wanted I forgot. I was gonna 1555 01:17:09,920 --> 01:17:12,400 Speaker 1: tell you about the thing with fresh water salt water 1556 01:17:13,920 --> 01:17:17,120 Speaker 1: are you meet with the Susitna River system in Alaska, 1557 01:17:17,960 --> 01:17:20,960 Speaker 1: so in south like the Seuxsitting that flows out near Anchorage, 1558 01:17:20,960 --> 01:17:24,720 Speaker 1: So south central Alaska. There's this big river system and 1559 01:17:25,880 --> 01:17:28,600 Speaker 1: very important like big salmon runs kay like you know, 1560 01:17:29,640 --> 01:17:35,840 Speaker 1: kings like just everything right, I realized, I don't know 1561 01:17:36,160 --> 01:17:41,400 Speaker 1: if that river gets sac eyes, I should know, but 1562 01:17:41,880 --> 01:17:45,960 Speaker 1: King runs, silver runs pinks. All this stuff goes up 1563 01:17:46,080 --> 01:17:49,000 Speaker 1: this river system and someone and I can't remember when 1564 01:17:49,000 --> 01:17:52,639 Speaker 1: they know when it happened. Uh, someone moved northern pike 1565 01:17:52,680 --> 01:17:55,160 Speaker 1: into it. Okay, So of course northern pike are native 1566 01:17:55,400 --> 01:17:58,519 Speaker 1: to Alaska, and like the Yukon system has northern pike. 1567 01:17:58,560 --> 01:18:01,960 Speaker 1: But someone helped, you know, at some point in time, 1568 01:18:02,000 --> 01:18:08,679 Speaker 1: someone helped pike into the Susitina and there's the potential 1569 01:18:08,720 --> 01:18:13,639 Speaker 1: for it to be devastating to salmon and they've really 1570 01:18:13,640 --> 01:18:16,920 Speaker 1: spread out. And like another thing with how in trouble 1571 01:18:17,000 --> 01:18:22,080 Speaker 1: kings are Kings spent extra time in fresh water kings 1572 01:18:22,080 --> 01:18:24,759 Speaker 1: spent an extra year in fresh water, so they remain 1573 01:18:24,920 --> 01:18:30,640 Speaker 1: for they have a greater vulnerability to this new predatory fish. 1574 01:18:30,760 --> 01:18:35,840 Speaker 1: So there was a lot of interest in how far 1575 01:18:36,000 --> 01:18:41,640 Speaker 1: could the northern spread, right the demographics on the population, 1576 01:18:41,840 --> 01:18:47,679 Speaker 1: how much damage might they ultimately do to the salmon stocks. Well, 1577 01:18:49,280 --> 01:18:53,920 Speaker 1: these northerns, these Northern pike started showing up in different 1578 01:18:54,400 --> 01:18:58,439 Speaker 1: adjacent river systems, and the idea was that people were 1579 01:18:58,439 --> 01:19:01,720 Speaker 1: continuing to move them around. But they can go to 1580 01:19:01,760 --> 01:19:06,680 Speaker 1: these other river systems and look at stable isotope compositions 1581 01:19:06,680 --> 01:19:10,320 Speaker 1: in the fish, and those fish are going into salt water, 1582 01:19:10,520 --> 01:19:12,840 Speaker 1: which no one thought they would do. They're going into 1583 01:19:12,840 --> 01:19:17,880 Speaker 1: salt water being fine and actually entering new river systems 1584 01:19:17,920 --> 01:19:18,719 Speaker 1: from salt water. 1585 01:19:20,000 --> 01:19:20,679 Speaker 2: Northern pike. 1586 01:19:20,840 --> 01:19:24,360 Speaker 1: Northern pike are going out into salt. 1587 01:19:25,640 --> 01:19:26,439 Speaker 3: Yeah, I think blue. 1588 01:19:26,920 --> 01:19:29,640 Speaker 1: I think blue colandering around and then shooting up new 1589 01:19:29,720 --> 01:19:30,400 Speaker 1: river systems. 1590 01:19:30,439 --> 01:19:32,280 Speaker 3: I mean blue catfish will do that too, weren't they? 1591 01:19:32,880 --> 01:19:33,519 Speaker 1: Oh I didn't know. 1592 01:19:33,600 --> 01:19:35,439 Speaker 3: I feel like I've heard heard of that as well. 1593 01:19:36,439 --> 01:19:37,760 Speaker 1: And then you're left to be like, well, how the 1594 01:19:37,800 --> 01:19:40,000 Speaker 1: hell did it get in here? Must be those more 1595 01:19:40,040 --> 01:19:43,760 Speaker 1: of those rednecks doing bucket biology. It turns out that 1596 01:19:43,960 --> 01:19:46,400 Speaker 1: fish is like whatever he gets, you know, I was 1597 01:19:46,439 --> 01:19:49,240 Speaker 1: asking Danny. I was like, so do they He goes, 1598 01:19:49,280 --> 01:19:50,960 Speaker 1: I don't know what the fish is trying to do. 1599 01:19:51,040 --> 01:19:53,040 Speaker 1: I don't know what it wants to do, but it 1600 01:19:53,080 --> 01:19:53,360 Speaker 1: does it. 1601 01:19:53,640 --> 01:19:56,880 Speaker 3: Yeah, they spread, I mean they thinks spread man when 1602 01:19:56,920 --> 01:20:00,400 Speaker 3: they You remind me of a story and the Ebro 1603 01:20:00,520 --> 01:20:05,240 Speaker 3: River in Spain. So a German fisherman took over like 1604 01:20:05,320 --> 01:20:09,439 Speaker 3: thirty baby Wells catfish in his VW bug in the 1605 01:20:09,479 --> 01:20:12,080 Speaker 3: seventies and put them in the Ebro River in Spain 1606 01:20:12,080 --> 01:20:15,439 Speaker 3: where they're not native. And we were there several years 1607 01:20:15,439 --> 01:20:18,480 Speaker 3: ago and that's it's now ninety percent of the biomass 1608 01:20:18,600 --> 01:20:22,040 Speaker 3: of fish in that river or Wells catfish just a 1609 01:20:22,160 --> 01:20:23,280 Speaker 3: normal Yeah. 1610 01:20:23,360 --> 01:20:24,519 Speaker 2: That's one of the big ones, isn't it. 1611 01:20:24,680 --> 01:20:25,960 Speaker 3: Yeah? 1612 01:20:26,080 --> 01:20:29,080 Speaker 1: Well, I mean yeah, I mean you don't need to 1613 01:20:29,080 --> 01:20:33,439 Speaker 1: go that far because the Great Lakes. 1614 01:20:33,920 --> 01:20:35,559 Speaker 3: Yeah, it's like if. 1615 01:20:35,400 --> 01:20:37,400 Speaker 1: You go back in time on the Great Lakes, like 1616 01:20:38,160 --> 01:20:44,959 Speaker 1: there was like a sturgeon fishery whitefish right, yea dominant 1617 01:20:45,000 --> 01:20:48,600 Speaker 1: species all the way down in Chicago, like dominant species. 1618 01:20:48,720 --> 01:20:52,000 Speaker 1: And it's just been that it's been rewritten and rewritten. 1619 01:20:52,600 --> 01:20:55,280 Speaker 1: Cart were put in there because they thought they'd catch 1620 01:20:55,320 --> 01:20:59,920 Speaker 1: on as food and then all the accidental, all the intent. 1621 01:21:01,920 --> 01:21:04,640 Speaker 1: It's an experimental aquarium. 1622 01:21:04,720 --> 01:21:07,840 Speaker 3: Yeah, on the Ibro too, so that they were introduced 1623 01:21:07,840 --> 01:21:11,719 Speaker 3: there and people it's catching relief, like it's not catching 1624 01:21:11,760 --> 01:21:15,479 Speaker 3: release by law, but all the anglers practice catching release, 1625 01:21:16,040 --> 01:21:19,080 Speaker 3: so like no one's eating them either. The Spanish people 1626 01:21:19,080 --> 01:21:21,880 Speaker 3: apparently don't like to eat them. The recreational anglers just 1627 01:21:21,920 --> 01:21:25,320 Speaker 3: like to catch and release. So that's why there's like them. 1628 01:21:26,520 --> 01:21:28,160 Speaker 3: It's you get these weird situations. 1629 01:21:28,240 --> 01:21:29,800 Speaker 1: Yeah. Now and then they'll make it that it's like 1630 01:21:29,920 --> 01:21:33,320 Speaker 1: with certain invasives, they'll make it that it's illegal to 1631 01:21:33,479 --> 01:21:36,759 Speaker 1: keep it. Yeah, to return it alive, it's it's illegal 1632 01:21:36,760 --> 01:21:39,600 Speaker 1: to have. It's illegal to put it back. But I 1633 01:21:39,640 --> 01:21:41,240 Speaker 1: don't want to name his name, but you know when 1634 01:21:41,280 --> 01:21:43,400 Speaker 1: they got Lake Trout, they got Lake Trout and Lake 1635 01:21:43,479 --> 01:21:46,120 Speaker 1: Yellowstone and they're very worried about the cutthroats and there, 1636 01:21:46,720 --> 01:21:48,760 Speaker 1: so they're encouraging everybody to go and you know, they 1637 01:21:48,760 --> 01:21:50,479 Speaker 1: wanted people to catch them and kill them. It was 1638 01:21:50,520 --> 01:21:53,479 Speaker 1: illegal to turn one back alive. I had a body 1639 01:21:53,520 --> 01:21:56,679 Speaker 1: that was always down there fishing, and he's talking about 1640 01:21:56,720 --> 01:21:59,200 Speaker 1: letting them go. I'm like well, you know what we mean, 1641 01:21:59,200 --> 01:22:01,120 Speaker 1: you letting them go. That's just let him go, he says. Man, 1642 01:22:01,120 --> 01:22:03,120 Speaker 1: I love fishing there. I don't want to damage that fishery. 1643 01:22:04,160 --> 01:22:08,280 Speaker 1: It's just like people just get whatever we get selfish. 1644 01:22:08,400 --> 01:22:09,840 Speaker 5: We had a thing a couple of years ago or 1645 01:22:09,840 --> 01:22:11,960 Speaker 5: three years ago, maybe it was a little longer than that, 1646 01:22:12,320 --> 01:22:14,720 Speaker 5: when all those Atlantic salmon got out of that net 1647 01:22:14,760 --> 01:22:19,880 Speaker 5: pin up up in the San Juans people oh man 1648 01:22:20,120 --> 01:22:23,879 Speaker 5: and people were up there just wailing on them things. 1649 01:22:24,160 --> 01:22:27,400 Speaker 2: Yeah, and it was like if you catch one, kill 1650 01:22:27,439 --> 01:22:28,439 Speaker 2: it sort of thing. 1651 01:22:28,840 --> 01:22:29,439 Speaker 3: Easy to catch. 1652 01:22:29,880 --> 01:22:31,479 Speaker 2: From what I heard. I didn't go up there. I 1653 01:22:31,520 --> 01:22:33,479 Speaker 2: can't say firsthand, but from what I heard. 1654 01:22:33,360 --> 01:22:35,840 Speaker 1: That no one's catching anymore. They all died or got caught. Yeah, 1655 01:22:35,880 --> 01:22:37,599 Speaker 1: they didn't take hold. 1656 01:22:37,680 --> 01:22:38,719 Speaker 2: Yeah, I haven't heard of one. 1657 01:22:39,040 --> 01:22:41,280 Speaker 5: We have a similar thing going on in eastern Washington 1658 01:22:41,320 --> 01:22:43,680 Speaker 5: with Northern Pike in Lake Roosevelt. 1659 01:22:43,880 --> 01:22:48,599 Speaker 2: And I've heard in a couple other places too, where it's. 1660 01:22:48,479 --> 01:22:52,559 Speaker 5: Card yeah, kill them on it's kill them on site 1661 01:22:52,040 --> 01:22:58,120 Speaker 5: Northey's and uh it's Roosevelt and Banks Lake in eastern Washington. 1662 01:22:58,160 --> 01:22:59,040 Speaker 2: That was what I was told. 1663 01:23:00,120 --> 01:23:03,360 Speaker 1: Uh arapaima, that's cool fish. 1664 01:23:03,439 --> 01:23:04,960 Speaker 3: Yeah, And that's something. 1665 01:23:05,000 --> 01:23:05,639 Speaker 1: Are they all right? 1666 01:23:06,400 --> 01:23:08,840 Speaker 3: They weren't, but it's sort of a success story because 1667 01:23:09,040 --> 01:23:13,080 Speaker 3: uh there they don't move that much and so it's 1668 01:23:13,160 --> 01:23:14,960 Speaker 3: used to be a traditional. It still is, but like 1669 01:23:15,000 --> 01:23:17,120 Speaker 3: a they have to come up for air, so it's 1670 01:23:17,120 --> 01:23:22,360 Speaker 3: a traditional like spear fishing, harpoon yep. Uh. 1671 01:23:22,360 --> 01:23:27,640 Speaker 1: The boys I was with, like their dads, that was 1672 01:23:27,680 --> 01:23:31,360 Speaker 1: a market fish, trade fish. They'd kill them and salt them, Yeah, 1673 01:23:31,439 --> 01:23:33,760 Speaker 1: for very small amounts of money, and they just don't know. 1674 01:23:33,920 --> 01:23:37,800 Speaker 5: Yeah, that's gotta be a tough, tough fish. Do they 1675 01:23:37,800 --> 01:23:39,759 Speaker 5: make cowboy boots out of them things? Skins? 1676 01:23:41,680 --> 01:23:43,320 Speaker 1: They would get a dart and they would get a 1677 01:23:43,320 --> 01:23:45,439 Speaker 1: prong into it and then just basically handle it like 1678 01:23:45,439 --> 01:23:46,400 Speaker 1: a whale. 1679 01:23:47,000 --> 01:23:47,760 Speaker 3: With it with a line. 1680 01:23:47,920 --> 01:23:50,479 Speaker 1: Just yeah. The goal is to get it tethered, you know, 1681 01:23:50,600 --> 01:23:54,560 Speaker 1: to get a toggle in it, and then you just whatever. 1682 01:23:55,000 --> 01:23:57,839 Speaker 2: Nantuckets slowly, Yeah, you just slowly. 1683 01:23:58,160 --> 01:24:00,320 Speaker 1: Once you get a rope on it, you just it's 1684 01:24:00,360 --> 01:24:04,519 Speaker 1: just a drawn out you were in Ghana, Yeah, but no, 1685 01:24:04,560 --> 01:24:05,760 Speaker 1: I never did it, But I'm just saying they were 1686 01:24:05,760 --> 01:24:07,200 Speaker 1: telling me about how they would do it. They would 1687 01:24:07,200 --> 01:24:09,280 Speaker 1: basically that you had come up or you'd find it 1688 01:24:09,360 --> 01:24:11,920 Speaker 1: basking and like the first order of business was to 1689 01:24:11,920 --> 01:24:15,840 Speaker 1: get a toggle in it with some rope and then 1690 01:24:15,960 --> 01:24:18,000 Speaker 1: and then it would would begin the process. 1691 01:24:18,120 --> 01:24:20,840 Speaker 3: Yeah. I think the species in Ghana, so there are 1692 01:24:20,840 --> 01:24:24,120 Speaker 3: a couple like scientists recently figured out there's more than 1693 01:24:24,160 --> 01:24:26,800 Speaker 3: one species, and the species in Guyana is apparently a 1694 01:24:26,880 --> 01:24:30,559 Speaker 3: lot like fatter than the other species. And one guy, 1695 01:24:30,640 --> 01:24:33,800 Speaker 3: one biologist works down there, says that he actually thinks 1696 01:24:33,800 --> 01:24:36,720 Speaker 3: that they'll get a bigger like a seven hundred pound 1697 01:24:36,760 --> 01:24:39,000 Speaker 3: or something. He thinks that he thinks that that's the biggest. 1698 01:24:38,720 --> 01:24:39,639 Speaker 1: It's going to take the record. 1699 01:24:39,760 --> 01:24:43,240 Speaker 3: Yeah, but that's it. That's the thing with I mean, 1700 01:24:44,080 --> 01:24:47,040 Speaker 3: this whole project. I always assume, like there's no rule, 1701 01:24:47,240 --> 01:24:50,320 Speaker 3: like you could fish, the fish can be caught. However, 1702 01:24:50,439 --> 01:24:53,040 Speaker 3: like the only thing is like, okay, where you know, 1703 01:24:53,040 --> 01:24:55,520 Speaker 3: where was it? How big was it? I always assumed 1704 01:24:56,040 --> 01:24:58,840 Speaker 3: that I would hear from people biologists and fishermen and 1705 01:24:58,920 --> 01:25:02,920 Speaker 3: all over the world with stories of bigger fish. Like 1706 01:25:02,960 --> 01:25:04,840 Speaker 3: I I didn't think it was going to be me 1707 01:25:05,960 --> 01:25:09,240 Speaker 3: going out and trying to gather information. Yeah, I thought 1708 01:25:09,280 --> 01:25:12,160 Speaker 3: it would there would just be you know, fishermen like 1709 01:25:12,200 --> 01:25:14,519 Speaker 3: talking about catching big fish. I thought that it would 1710 01:25:14,560 --> 01:25:17,639 Speaker 3: be like reported, but they're just aren't. They just don't 1711 01:25:17,640 --> 01:25:18,200 Speaker 3: get that big. 1712 01:25:20,320 --> 01:25:24,000 Speaker 1: Remind me again right now, the current fresh water record. 1713 01:25:23,760 --> 01:25:26,120 Speaker 3: Is six hundred and sixty one pounds. 1714 01:25:26,600 --> 01:25:28,559 Speaker 1: Do you got do you know what you ought to do? Man? 1715 01:25:28,720 --> 01:25:32,680 Speaker 1: Why don't you just get like a little pot of money. 1716 01:25:32,360 --> 01:25:34,559 Speaker 2: And start like a global derby? 1717 01:25:37,120 --> 01:25:41,240 Speaker 3: Yeah. So with with sting ray, we're like, I'm ninety 1718 01:25:41,320 --> 01:25:46,080 Speaker 3: nine percent sure that they get up to maybe one 1719 01:25:46,080 --> 01:25:51,360 Speaker 3: thousand pounds. So it's just what what we were able 1720 01:25:51,400 --> 01:25:53,920 Speaker 3: to record and luckily able to like tag and now 1721 01:25:53,960 --> 01:25:56,720 Speaker 3: we're getting information about it. But we're I'm pretty sure 1722 01:25:56,720 --> 01:25:59,680 Speaker 3: that they get a lot bigger. You know, what are 1723 01:25:59,680 --> 01:26:02,840 Speaker 3: the chances is the one that we found exactly is 1724 01:26:02,880 --> 01:26:03,960 Speaker 3: the single biggest fish. 1725 01:26:04,000 --> 01:26:07,599 Speaker 1: It's not so no, no, well no that's not that's 1726 01:26:07,640 --> 01:26:08,040 Speaker 1: not true. 1727 01:26:08,120 --> 01:26:11,320 Speaker 4: Yeah, we are most of the biggest fish females that 1728 01:26:11,360 --> 01:26:12,679 Speaker 4: you're seeing, Yeah, the sting rays. 1729 01:26:12,800 --> 01:26:17,000 Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah, and apparently that's the same with marlin as well. Yeah. 1730 01:26:16,560 --> 01:26:20,839 Speaker 3: Uh yeah, the big the biggest sting rayser females. Interesting, Yeah, 1731 01:26:21,000 --> 01:26:23,880 Speaker 3: they typically anchor themselves to the bottom when you're fishing 1732 01:26:23,880 --> 01:26:28,080 Speaker 3: for them. Yeah, so they'll you hook into one and 1733 01:26:28,200 --> 01:26:31,080 Speaker 3: it'll go down to the bottom and basically fishing forward 1734 01:26:31,120 --> 01:26:33,120 Speaker 3: is trying to get it off the bottom. And then 1735 01:26:33,160 --> 01:26:34,479 Speaker 3: it also weighs six hundred pounds. 1736 01:26:34,479 --> 01:26:37,240 Speaker 6: But there's been many times where we nearly cut a 1737 01:26:37,240 --> 01:26:40,080 Speaker 6: snag and it turned out to be sting, right. 1738 01:26:40,600 --> 01:26:42,840 Speaker 3: Yeah, I've had both where I thought it was a 1739 01:26:42,880 --> 01:26:44,800 Speaker 3: snag and it was a sting right. Yeah. It's always 1740 01:26:44,800 --> 01:26:47,920 Speaker 3: cool when you you just have something that's you're just 1741 01:26:47,960 --> 01:26:52,439 Speaker 3: cussing and then it starts to move, dragging the bug. 1742 01:26:52,880 --> 01:26:56,559 Speaker 5: Yeah, you don't think there's a great big white sturgeon 1743 01:26:56,640 --> 01:26:58,360 Speaker 5: up their land locked. 1744 01:26:58,160 --> 01:26:58,519 Speaker 2: Up there, and. 1745 01:27:00,320 --> 01:27:01,240 Speaker 3: I'm curious. 1746 01:27:01,600 --> 01:27:05,160 Speaker 1: Yeah, the global Big Fish Derby. 1747 01:27:05,200 --> 01:27:07,280 Speaker 2: My money, and I'm biased, but my money's not a 1748 01:27:07,320 --> 01:27:08,520 Speaker 2: good old American. 1749 01:27:08,120 --> 01:27:13,040 Speaker 5: White Yeah, I feel it because, well, the other thing 1750 01:27:13,080 --> 01:27:14,800 Speaker 5: is choos all these records and stuff, like if you 1751 01:27:14,840 --> 01:27:17,520 Speaker 5: start a derby, then you have to have rules. 1752 01:27:17,840 --> 01:27:19,840 Speaker 2: Yeah, why don't we talk about that? 1753 01:27:19,880 --> 01:27:28,120 Speaker 1: About that, about that Lord Hope of blood Socker. The records. 1754 01:27:28,640 --> 01:27:34,600 Speaker 3: So I gf a uh all of the records. So 1755 01:27:34,640 --> 01:27:39,200 Speaker 3: they're much smaller than like the largest documented fish. 1756 01:27:39,439 --> 01:27:43,880 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, so like the biggest white tailed deer yeah yeah, yeah, 1757 01:27:43,880 --> 01:27:45,160 Speaker 1: he was killed by a hunter. 1758 01:27:45,920 --> 01:27:49,080 Speaker 3: Yeah, and so I I gf a record for giant 1759 01:27:49,080 --> 01:27:53,519 Speaker 3: catfish sting ray pima. It's all much smaller than the 1760 01:27:53,640 --> 01:27:56,439 Speaker 3: largest fish because you have to follow the rules. 1761 01:27:56,560 --> 01:27:59,439 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, it's just way different like the biggest whatever. 1762 01:27:59,479 --> 01:28:01,720 Speaker 1: It's like wound up being that just washed up on 1763 01:28:01,760 --> 01:28:03,400 Speaker 1: the beach one day, Yeah, dead. 1764 01:28:03,240 --> 01:28:06,960 Speaker 3: Or whatever, which from a like biology perspective is fascinating. 1765 01:28:06,960 --> 01:28:10,640 Speaker 3: So like that's I yeah for my work, I include that, 1766 01:28:10,720 --> 01:28:13,479 Speaker 3: but you know it wouldn't work for a derby. 1767 01:28:13,560 --> 01:28:14,320 Speaker 1: So your book came out. 1768 01:28:14,360 --> 01:28:18,320 Speaker 3: When book was published April twenty. 1769 01:28:18,000 --> 01:28:20,280 Speaker 1: Fifth, how's been going. It has been fun good. Yeah, 1770 01:28:20,320 --> 01:28:21,960 Speaker 1: it's a great book. Did you book events? 1771 01:28:22,160 --> 01:28:24,840 Speaker 3: Yeah, still doing them. Yeah, it's been great. It took 1772 01:28:24,920 --> 01:28:29,880 Speaker 3: U took over ten years to write, so it was 1773 01:28:30,200 --> 01:28:31,200 Speaker 3: really it wasn't a. 1774 01:28:31,520 --> 01:28:34,800 Speaker 1: Ten years ago. Did you know you were writing it. 1775 01:28:33,960 --> 01:28:37,720 Speaker 3: Ten years ago? I knew I was interested, Yeah, we know. 1776 01:28:38,000 --> 01:28:40,720 Speaker 3: So we I worked with Stephan Lovegren, who's writer with 1777 01:28:40,800 --> 01:28:43,599 Speaker 3: National Geographic and we've worked together forever and so we 1778 01:28:43,640 --> 01:28:47,880 Speaker 3: wrote the proposal in twenty eleven and then spent the 1779 01:28:47,960 --> 01:28:51,400 Speaker 3: last ten years just traveling around together. 1780 01:28:51,520 --> 01:28:54,840 Speaker 1: Information here that you know was where was the publisher ever? 1781 01:28:54,920 --> 01:28:56,320 Speaker 1: Kind of be like, hey, what happened to the book? 1782 01:28:59,240 --> 01:29:00,280 Speaker 3: There were a couple public. 1783 01:29:04,120 --> 01:29:04,560 Speaker 2: I got it. 1784 01:29:05,600 --> 01:29:08,519 Speaker 1: So but I want of landing with University of the Bad. 1785 01:29:08,320 --> 01:29:10,240 Speaker 3: Approach, which is where I work, Yeah, which is where 1786 01:29:10,240 --> 01:29:10,559 Speaker 3: you work. 1787 01:29:10,920 --> 01:29:11,400 Speaker 1: That's great. 1788 01:29:11,520 --> 01:29:13,519 Speaker 3: So it all, it all, it all worked out in 1789 01:29:13,560 --> 01:29:17,240 Speaker 3: the end. And we didn't know, I mean started out 1790 01:29:18,120 --> 01:29:20,599 Speaker 3: asking what question is? You know what fishes the worlds 1791 01:29:20,600 --> 01:29:24,479 Speaker 3: are just? And yeah, it wasn't until this last year 1792 01:29:24,560 --> 01:29:26,320 Speaker 3: that we found a larger one. 1793 01:29:26,360 --> 01:29:28,800 Speaker 1: So but like I said, there's a question mark that 1794 01:29:28,920 --> 01:29:29,639 Speaker 1: lingers over. 1795 01:29:29,800 --> 01:29:32,559 Speaker 3: Oh yeah, they're always there, always will be. And it's 1796 01:29:32,600 --> 01:29:34,600 Speaker 3: what I'm gonna you know, it's what I do. So 1797 01:29:35,920 --> 01:29:37,080 Speaker 3: I'm gonna keep working on it. 1798 01:29:37,120 --> 01:29:39,720 Speaker 1: And but if you, uh, let me ask you this, 1799 01:29:39,760 --> 01:29:41,840 Speaker 1: if you had and you kind of answered it, but 1800 01:29:41,880 --> 01:29:46,439 Speaker 1: if you had to guess, it's it's if you had 1801 01:29:46,439 --> 01:29:48,080 Speaker 1: to guess, do you think the record will stay with 1802 01:29:48,080 --> 01:29:50,200 Speaker 1: that sting ray species or do you think that or 1803 01:29:50,240 --> 01:29:51,839 Speaker 1: do you do you got a feeling like the catfish 1804 01:29:51,920 --> 01:29:52,760 Speaker 1: is gonna blow it away? 1805 01:29:52,880 --> 01:29:55,280 Speaker 3: Or what I want the record to be broken like 1806 01:29:55,320 --> 01:29:57,040 Speaker 3: because that's that means healthy? 1807 01:29:57,120 --> 01:29:58,920 Speaker 1: But are you betting on the sting rays? Are you 1808 01:29:58,920 --> 01:30:01,400 Speaker 1: betting on some other things? Like just from your hunt? 1809 01:30:01,520 --> 01:30:01,680 Speaker 3: Right? 1810 01:30:01,680 --> 01:30:04,960 Speaker 1: Come on, you know Tommy's betting on white Stairs. 1811 01:30:04,960 --> 01:30:06,840 Speaker 2: I'm betting on Whittairs and I'm going all in. 1812 01:30:07,160 --> 01:30:08,920 Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean I think it's the sting ray, but 1813 01:30:09,160 --> 01:30:13,840 Speaker 3: you do. So they're like, yeah, there's these stories from 1814 01:30:13,880 --> 01:30:17,960 Speaker 3: way back when of much bigger fish. 1815 01:30:18,160 --> 01:30:21,000 Speaker 2: Yeah, divers from Bonneville Dam coming. 1816 01:30:20,880 --> 01:30:23,679 Speaker 5: Up with these stories, and these dudes, these twenty foot 1817 01:30:23,680 --> 01:30:26,320 Speaker 5: sturgeon is bigger around as VW bugs. 1818 01:30:26,640 --> 01:30:28,840 Speaker 1: I grew up with those stories. Man, well and those 1819 01:30:28,840 --> 01:30:30,120 Speaker 1: big calffish eating people. 1820 01:30:30,320 --> 01:30:30,599 Speaker 2: Yeah. 1821 01:30:30,680 --> 01:30:33,639 Speaker 3: Yeah, or like Locked Nest Monster, if. 1822 01:30:33,800 --> 01:30:35,200 Speaker 1: It's come on, they'll come on. 1823 01:30:35,439 --> 01:30:38,600 Speaker 3: No. No, but I'm saying any like, you hear so 1824 01:30:38,720 --> 01:30:42,280 Speaker 3: many stories. Yeah, when those stories turn out to be true, 1825 01:30:42,320 --> 01:30:46,000 Speaker 3: maybe not Locknest Monster, but whatever, Like that's good, Like 1826 01:30:46,040 --> 01:30:49,240 Speaker 3: that's interesting. It never, it very very rarely turns out 1827 01:30:49,240 --> 01:30:52,559 Speaker 3: that those stories are true. But yeah, I hope, I mean, 1828 01:30:52,680 --> 01:30:56,080 Speaker 3: I hope someone catches bigger fish next year. It's like, 1829 01:30:56,120 --> 01:30:59,400 Speaker 3: if you've been to the Maykong, millions of people fish 1830 01:30:59,400 --> 01:31:04,080 Speaker 3: in that river, you you would never believe in a 1831 01:31:04,080 --> 01:31:07,960 Speaker 3: million years that the largest fish could occur there because 1832 01:31:07,960 --> 01:31:10,080 Speaker 3: of the amount of fishing and other stuff that's going 1833 01:31:10,160 --> 01:31:13,080 Speaker 3: on there. So the fact that it's still there is great. 1834 01:31:14,080 --> 01:31:16,719 Speaker 3: I hope. I hope there's a bigger fish out there. 1835 01:31:16,920 --> 01:31:19,080 Speaker 3: I hope the air pinma in South America. I hope 1836 01:31:19,120 --> 01:31:21,559 Speaker 3: they catch seven hundred pounds next year. 1837 01:31:21,840 --> 01:31:24,000 Speaker 1: So I got one last question for you before plugging 1838 01:31:24,000 --> 01:31:27,479 Speaker 1: your book again. If you go to the Makon River 1839 01:31:27,680 --> 01:31:31,240 Speaker 1: and I take a crawler leaf worm, put it on 1840 01:31:31,280 --> 01:31:32,880 Speaker 1: a hook and flick it out, am I probably gonna 1841 01:31:32,880 --> 01:31:33,639 Speaker 1: get hit fast? 1842 01:31:34,840 --> 01:31:35,479 Speaker 3: Oh not? No? 1843 01:31:35,720 --> 01:31:37,800 Speaker 1: And I don't mean by the giant can. I mean 1844 01:31:37,800 --> 01:31:38,679 Speaker 1: it's a hit in general? 1845 01:31:39,000 --> 01:31:40,360 Speaker 3: No? So really? 1846 01:31:40,479 --> 01:31:42,160 Speaker 1: Yeah, So you can draw on a worm and not 1847 01:31:42,200 --> 01:31:42,639 Speaker 1: get a hit. 1848 01:31:42,720 --> 01:31:47,120 Speaker 3: There's so many people fishing. So like I went h 1849 01:31:48,240 --> 01:31:51,439 Speaker 3: on the river one day and I for like five miles. 1850 01:31:51,479 --> 01:31:56,120 Speaker 3: I counted a thousand nuts. Oh yeah, So that's what 1851 01:31:56,160 --> 01:31:58,799 Speaker 3: I'm saying about, how it's incredible that these fish are still. 1852 01:31:58,600 --> 01:32:00,519 Speaker 1: They got to put on a type species there. 1853 01:32:00,439 --> 01:32:04,240 Speaker 3: No, so yeah, yeah, yeah, South I mean South America, 1854 01:32:04,720 --> 01:32:08,160 Speaker 3: it's still I mean they have I forget what that 1855 01:32:08,280 --> 01:32:10,479 Speaker 3: species with the prana like if you try fishing in 1856 01:32:10,479 --> 01:32:13,360 Speaker 3: South America like prana in a second, it has been 1857 01:32:13,400 --> 01:32:14,040 Speaker 3: my experience. 1858 01:32:14,120 --> 01:32:16,479 Speaker 1: Sure, Yeah, you throw that bait out there, you're gonna 1859 01:32:16,479 --> 01:32:16,880 Speaker 1: get a hit. 1860 01:32:17,040 --> 01:32:20,520 Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, because in South America, in a lot of places, 1861 01:32:21,280 --> 01:32:24,200 Speaker 3: people are still selective about what fish they're eating. They 1862 01:32:24,200 --> 01:32:28,679 Speaker 3: want a big fish, certain kinds of fish. In may Kong, 1863 01:32:28,800 --> 01:32:32,280 Speaker 3: it's like, I mean, you catch a fish like that, 1864 01:32:32,280 --> 01:32:33,599 Speaker 3: that's that's food. 1865 01:32:34,040 --> 01:32:35,920 Speaker 1: I was in the Philippines one time and we were 1866 01:32:35,960 --> 01:32:40,439 Speaker 1: at a fish market and I was expressing to the 1867 01:32:40,439 --> 01:32:43,200 Speaker 1: personnels with that, like, how could all the fish in 1868 01:32:43,240 --> 01:32:44,160 Speaker 1: the fish market. 1869 01:32:43,920 --> 01:32:44,599 Speaker 2: Be so small? 1870 01:32:45,200 --> 01:32:48,760 Speaker 1: Meaning I mean, there's it's all fish the size your 1871 01:32:48,760 --> 01:32:53,160 Speaker 1: finger right and squid And he said, yeah, it's like this. 1872 01:32:53,280 --> 01:32:54,880 Speaker 1: He goes, Then you'll come in here tomorrow and there'll 1873 01:32:54,880 --> 01:32:56,840 Speaker 1: be a forty foot whale shark laying there. He goes, 1874 01:32:56,880 --> 01:32:59,519 Speaker 1: It's just what gets caught, man. He's like, it's what 1875 01:32:59,600 --> 01:33:02,240 Speaker 1: gets caught. Wow, if it gets caught, it's going to 1876 01:33:02,280 --> 01:33:03,280 Speaker 1: be here in this fish market. 1877 01:33:03,439 --> 01:33:03,719 Speaker 3: Yeah. 1878 01:33:03,880 --> 01:33:04,720 Speaker 1: Selectivity is. 1879 01:33:05,320 --> 01:33:09,560 Speaker 3: We work a lot with local people fishing and we 1880 01:33:09,920 --> 01:33:12,920 Speaker 3: monitor we for the last three years, we've recorded every 1881 01:33:13,040 --> 01:33:15,280 Speaker 3: single thing that they catch in their fish trap. And 1882 01:33:15,320 --> 01:33:18,200 Speaker 3: these fish traps so it's a it's an arrow shaped 1883 01:33:18,240 --> 01:33:20,880 Speaker 3: trap made out of a bamboo that can be like 1884 01:33:20,920 --> 01:33:23,439 Speaker 3: a klometer long, so it's you know, like a fight 1885 01:33:23,520 --> 01:33:27,599 Speaker 3: net yep. So it's a big wall within like an arrow, 1886 01:33:28,120 --> 01:33:30,000 Speaker 3: so the fish get like they hit the wall, they 1887 01:33:30,040 --> 01:33:34,600 Speaker 3: swim along. It's in the lake, so yeah, but the 1888 01:33:34,680 --> 01:33:37,880 Speaker 3: lake drains, so yeah, the fish have to move as 1889 01:33:37,920 --> 01:33:44,519 Speaker 3: the lake drains, and they catch like one hundred and 1890 01:33:44,560 --> 01:33:48,840 Speaker 3: twenty different kinds of fish and each trap, they're like 1891 01:33:49,120 --> 01:33:51,880 Speaker 3: ten thousand of these traps. Each trap catches a ton 1892 01:33:51,920 --> 01:33:56,679 Speaker 3: of fish a year. So it's like so productive. Yeah, 1893 01:33:56,800 --> 01:33:58,960 Speaker 3: it's crazy, but it's very much that. You're just reminded 1894 01:33:58,960 --> 01:34:03,400 Speaker 3: me that because they like we some days they'll catch 1895 01:34:03,960 --> 01:34:06,599 Speaker 3: a thousand of one kind of fish and then the 1896 01:34:06,720 --> 01:34:08,960 Speaker 3: next day it's something it's like we're trying to understand 1897 01:34:09,000 --> 01:34:09,559 Speaker 3: what's going on. 1898 01:34:09,640 --> 01:34:13,240 Speaker 1: But yeah, it is kind of trying to understand the system. Yeah, 1899 01:34:13,280 --> 01:34:16,400 Speaker 1: like why, well, if you're wondering why, you'll find a 1900 01:34:16,400 --> 01:34:19,000 Speaker 1: lot out. You see that Tommy that's hosting You'll find 1901 01:34:19,000 --> 01:34:21,240 Speaker 1: a lot out in Chasing Giants in Search of the 1902 01:34:21,240 --> 01:34:25,679 Speaker 1: World's Largest freshwater Fish by zeb Hogan with Stefan luvgren 1903 01:34:27,560 --> 01:34:31,439 Speaker 1: U host a National geographics Monster Fish, which covers as 1904 01:34:31,479 --> 01:34:33,400 Speaker 1: well The show right covers a lot of the material 1905 01:34:33,439 --> 01:34:36,519 Speaker 1: in here, but if you really want to read them, 1906 01:34:36,600 --> 01:34:39,160 Speaker 1: book Biology Yeah, it's got a big photo section in 1907 01:34:39,160 --> 01:34:42,280 Speaker 1: the middle. Normally I didn't get around here. Normally when 1908 01:34:42,320 --> 01:34:43,760 Speaker 1: we have people on, I read their book. I'm pretty 1909 01:34:43,760 --> 01:34:45,240 Speaker 1: good about it. But I didn't read your book yet. 1910 01:34:45,479 --> 01:34:46,920 Speaker 1: I just want I just wanted to tell you, so 1911 01:34:46,960 --> 01:34:48,800 Speaker 1: you have to. I don't want you to talk to 1912 01:34:48,800 --> 01:34:50,639 Speaker 1: someone lame like that's some bitch. Never even read the book, 1913 01:34:50,680 --> 01:34:51,640 Speaker 1: I could tell. I'm just telling you. 1914 01:34:51,760 --> 01:34:53,479 Speaker 2: Never read the book. I'd like to. 1915 01:34:54,280 --> 01:34:57,679 Speaker 1: It looks good. It's a beautiful book, color photography, chasing 1916 01:34:57,720 --> 01:35:00,639 Speaker 1: giants in search of the world's largest fresh water fish 1917 01:35:00,920 --> 01:35:03,200 Speaker 1: anywhere books are sold. 1918 01:35:04,280 --> 01:35:04,439 Speaker 3: Good. 1919 01:35:04,479 --> 01:35:07,000 Speaker 1: Look, man, I appreciate you coming out. Thank you, thank you, 1920 01:35:07,040 --> 01:35:10,439 Speaker 1: thank you. Tommy, You're welcome and boys appreciate it. Head 1921 01:35:10,479 --> 01:35:12,160 Speaker 1: down to the to the first Light store. 1922 01:35:12,840 --> 01:35:13,559 Speaker 4: We'll take care of you. 1923 01:35:13,720 --> 01:35:16,679 Speaker 1: Hailey, Idaho. You'll know when you see them. 1924 01:35:16,960 --> 01:35:20,120 Speaker 2: This place is crazy. I'm jealous of the mannequins. 1925 01:35:20,280 --> 01:35:22,040 Speaker 3: Plug plug it a little bit morement. 1926 01:35:23,800 --> 01:35:25,120 Speaker 2: What do you want me to talk about this place? 1927 01:35:26,120 --> 01:35:29,400 Speaker 2: It really is a destination. It's incredible. You walk through 1928 01:35:29,400 --> 01:35:29,920 Speaker 2: the front door. 1929 01:35:29,960 --> 01:35:32,120 Speaker 5: There's a great, big giant bull laying there with three 1930 01:35:32,240 --> 01:35:34,920 Speaker 5: years where the sheds. 1931 01:35:34,000 --> 01:35:36,560 Speaker 2: Laying next to it. That's admirable, dude. 1932 01:35:37,640 --> 01:35:41,880 Speaker 1: A rifle sitting right inside. 1933 01:35:44,200 --> 01:35:45,120 Speaker 3: You can just come in here. 1934 01:35:45,439 --> 01:35:46,000 Speaker 1: Stick them up. 1935 01:35:46,760 --> 01:35:47,519 Speaker 2: But I didn't know. 1936 01:35:47,640 --> 01:35:49,880 Speaker 5: It's the women's section that explains why none of them 1937 01:35:49,880 --> 01:35:50,840 Speaker 5: clothes look to fit me. 1938 01:35:51,960 --> 01:35:55,200 Speaker 7: Well maybe one day, Tom, he's pushing for your job 1939 01:35:55,320 --> 01:35:57,240 Speaker 7: down here, man, I might. 1940 01:35:57,120 --> 01:35:58,679 Speaker 2: Be politicking my way into something. 1941 01:36:00,640 --> 01:36:02,559 Speaker 1: Okay, all right, guys, thank you very much for coming on. 1942 01:36:02,640 --> 01:36:03,519 Speaker 3: Man, appreciate it. 1943 01:36:03,520 --> 01:36:04,080 Speaker 2: Thanks for having me. 1944 01:36:04,120 --> 01:36:05,240 Speaker 3: Thank you. 1945 01:36:05,439 --> 01:36:12,240 Speaker 2: Oh ride all, ride all. 1946 01:36:16,200 --> 01:36:22,960 Speaker 6: On a seal ry shine like silver in the sun. 1947 01:36:26,840 --> 01:36:34,360 Speaker 1: Ride, ride, ride on along, sweetheart. 1948 01:36:35,240 --> 01:36:40,160 Speaker 3: Were done beat this damn horse to death, taking a 1949 01:36:40,320 --> 01:36:42,000 Speaker 3: new one. Ride. 1950 01:36:45,479 --> 01:36:51,120 Speaker 6: We're done beat this damn horse today, So take your 1951 01:36:51,240 --> 01:36:53,280 Speaker 6: new one and ride on