WEBVTT - Get Ready for the Next Generation of the Internet, the ‘Metaverse’ 0:00:00.080 --> 0:00:04.320 It's Tuesday, October. I'm Oscar Ramiras from the Daily Dive 0:00:04.400 --> 0:00:08.680 podcast in Los Angeles, and this is reopening America. It 0:00:08.720 --> 0:00:11.280 could be the next generation of the Internet. It could 0:00:11.320 --> 0:00:13.960 be bigger than the impact of the mobile revolution, and 0:00:14.000 --> 0:00:16.720 many companies are gearing up to make it happen. I'm 0:00:16.760 --> 0:00:20.000 talking about the metaverse. It's an immersive digital world where 0:00:20.000 --> 0:00:22.119 you can shop, gather with friends in the form of 0:00:22.160 --> 0:00:25.000 digital avatars, and experience the world that goes beyond the 0:00:25.040 --> 0:00:28.840 real one. The technology isn't completely there yet, but big 0:00:28.880 --> 0:00:32.080 tech companies like Microsoft and Facebook are working hard towards 0:00:32.080 --> 0:00:36.080 that goal. Sarah Needleman, tech reporter at The Wall Street Journal, 0:00:36.479 --> 0:00:38.919 joins us for what to expect from the metaverse and 0:00:38.960 --> 0:00:43.640 what it will take to get there. Thanks for joining us, Sarah. 0:00:43.760 --> 0:00:47.120 Let's talk about something pretty fun, the metaverse. Now, this 0:00:47.240 --> 0:00:49.760 is kind of a lot of people are really hyping 0:00:49.800 --> 0:00:51.280 this up right now. They're saying it could be the 0:00:51.320 --> 0:00:55.120 next phase of the Internet, it could be bigger than 0:00:55.160 --> 0:00:59.920 the mobile revolution, and companies are really trying to kind 0:01:00.040 --> 0:01:02.960 of put everything together that we've been working for towards 0:01:02.960 --> 0:01:07.759 so far. Virtual reality, augmented reality, just kind of online gaming. 0:01:08.240 --> 0:01:10.160 This would be the metaverse would be kind of all 0:01:10.160 --> 0:01:13.280 of that pushed into one and it would be basically, 0:01:13.640 --> 0:01:17.480 you know, kind of living, shopping, participating with others in 0:01:17.560 --> 0:01:20.840 kind of this online world is virtual world that think 0:01:20.840 --> 0:01:22.760 of Ready Player one, that movie if you've seen it, 0:01:22.760 --> 0:01:25.480 would be something very similar to that. But there's lots 0:01:25.480 --> 0:01:27.839 of companies that are putting a lot of time, effort 0:01:27.840 --> 0:01:30.080 and money into this. So Sarah, help us walk through 0:01:30.120 --> 0:01:32.280 some of this. What are we looking at. Essentially, the 0:01:32.319 --> 0:01:35.560 metaverse is considered the next evolution of the Internet, and 0:01:35.600 --> 0:01:38.480 the difference between that and what we have today is 0:01:38.600 --> 0:01:42.959 we'll have a lot more people capable of congregating together online. 0:01:43.080 --> 0:01:44.880 Right now, there's a limit to how many people could 0:01:44.920 --> 0:01:48.280 be in a single experience without things flowing down. Another 0:01:48.400 --> 0:01:51.560 aspect of the metaverses that will be able to create 0:01:51.600 --> 0:01:54.040 our own content that it will be for anyone, and 0:01:54.080 --> 0:01:58.200 it's really replicating the real world into the virtual will 0:01:58.240 --> 0:02:00.880 have a three D replicas that are very very realistic 0:02:00.920 --> 0:02:03.600 of the real world, and we'll be able to recreate history. 0:02:03.600 --> 0:02:06.680 For example, will have the Colosseum in Rome as it 0:02:06.760 --> 0:02:08.840 was being built. We'll be able to go on the 0:02:09.320 --> 0:02:11.440 into space and and we'll be able to travel with 0:02:11.520 --> 0:02:14.239 us about anywhere and see virtual replicas of the real 0:02:14.280 --> 0:02:17.240 world and new versions or new things that we haven't 0:02:17.240 --> 0:02:20.560 thought of, or just the opportunities to experience things that 0:02:20.600 --> 0:02:23.600 aren't possible in the real world. And so the technology 0:02:23.680 --> 0:02:27.400 will evolve to the point where very very realistic, especially 0:02:27.440 --> 0:02:29.760 if we're using better hardware that we have today, and 0:02:29.840 --> 0:02:32.359 we could use our phones, we could use our laptops. 0:02:32.360 --> 0:02:35.680 But imagine a future where everybody has a virtual reality 0:02:35.720 --> 0:02:38.440 headset and not these big clunky things you see today, 0:02:38.480 --> 0:02:42.520 but more like typical pair of eyeglasses or sunglasses, and uh, 0:02:42.760 --> 0:02:45.040 it will just be so much more immersive that you'll 0:02:45.040 --> 0:02:47.840 really feel as if you're sitting next to someone who's 0:02:47.880 --> 0:02:50.720 actually maybe hundreds of miles away, And I really feel 0:02:50.760 --> 0:02:53.040 as if you're walking on the moon, or if you're 0:02:53.040 --> 0:02:56.600 in the desert. Maybe not the heat, but you certainly 0:02:56.720 --> 0:02:59.600 would would see things that would be replica of the 0:02:59.600 --> 0:03:01.440 real world, all that you couldn't just seen it with 0:03:01.440 --> 0:03:03.880 the staff of your fingers today, but in the metaverse 0:03:03.880 --> 0:03:05.800 you will be able to. Yeah, now, I mean, obviously 0:03:05.840 --> 0:03:08.840 the possibilities are pretty much endless. When you're veering off 0:03:08.880 --> 0:03:12.360 into these types of things. But there's some real effort, 0:03:12.400 --> 0:03:15.240 as I mentioned, behind all of this big companies in 0:03:15.360 --> 0:03:19.760 video roadblocks Microsoft, Facebook is probably one of the biggest 0:03:19.919 --> 0:03:22.000 companies that is really going to put a lot of 0:03:22.040 --> 0:03:24.680 effort into this. I think Mark Zuckerberg himself said that 0:03:24.960 --> 0:03:26.880 people are going to start thinking of us more than 0:03:26.919 --> 0:03:29.400 a social media company and thinking of us as a 0:03:29.440 --> 0:03:33.040 metaverse company. Talk about this kind of company involvements and 0:03:33.080 --> 0:03:35.880 how they're really pushing it. I mean Facebook just to now, 0:03:35.880 --> 0:03:38.080 it's the other day that they're planning to hire thousands 0:03:38.120 --> 0:03:41.360 of people to help it with development of the metaverse. 0:03:41.400 --> 0:03:43.640 So there's a lot of excitement around it. For this 0:03:43.760 --> 0:03:47.880 to happen, we need a lot of tools and resources 0:03:47.920 --> 0:03:50.880 to be able to create this metaverse. I described this 0:03:50.880 --> 0:03:53.720 this rebelica of the world in three dimensional knowledge, beautiful 0:03:53.720 --> 0:03:56.400 glory and ways that we are that are creative. And 0:03:56.440 --> 0:03:59.760 so we're talking about a lot of technology that doesn't 0:04:00.200 --> 0:04:03.760 exists today certain terms of these speed, real time rendering, 0:04:03.960 --> 0:04:06.600 the quality of graphics. We're sort of there. We're getting there, 0:04:06.640 --> 0:04:08.280 but we have a long way to go. And we 0:04:08.320 --> 0:04:11.040 also need to have the meniversity somewhat seamless, and that 0:04:11.440 --> 0:04:15.800 if you travel from one experience to another, that you 0:04:15.800 --> 0:04:18.440 could perhaps have the same avatar, Because we're going to 0:04:18.480 --> 0:04:21.560 see each other as avatars, which will be digital recreations. 0:04:21.600 --> 0:04:23.359 It may look just like we do in real life, 0:04:23.480 --> 0:04:26.280 or we might be cartoonish and have like a unicorn 0:04:26.600 --> 0:04:28.599 or a mohawk or whatever. We can change our appearance, 0:04:28.880 --> 0:04:31.799 and there's got to be some sort of universal system 0:04:31.800 --> 0:04:33.839 where you can travel from point A to point B 0:04:34.040 --> 0:04:36.479 with some sort of consistency like we have today. When 0:04:36.480 --> 0:04:38.760 the web first create was created, we didn't have htmail 0:04:38.880 --> 0:04:40.400 right off the bas so thanks for a little bit 0:04:40.680 --> 0:04:45.200 discombubbled and h over time, we created h gmail and 0:04:45.200 --> 0:04:47.880 we had a more more universal experience from one website 0:04:47.920 --> 0:04:50.760 to the other. It's basically the same kind of movements, 0:04:50.880 --> 0:04:53.200 and so we have to build something akin to that 0:04:53.279 --> 0:04:55.560 for the metaverse. We also have to think about the 0:04:55.600 --> 0:04:58.599 economics for buying digital assets. How do we secure that 0:04:58.680 --> 0:05:01.360 asset those kind of assets us where something like blockchain 0:05:01.440 --> 0:05:03.720 comes in, and we have to think about safety and 0:05:03.760 --> 0:05:07.680 privacy and so many other factors. All these companies are 0:05:07.680 --> 0:05:10.000 thinking about it, the ones you mentioned, and many others, 0:05:10.040 --> 0:05:12.720 including many startups, and so it's getting there. But it's 0:05:12.760 --> 0:05:14.400 going to take time. Yeah, and you know, as you 0:05:14.440 --> 0:05:18.839 mentioned detailing kind of all the technology technological advancements that 0:05:18.880 --> 0:05:21.279 we really need for it, and that uniformity that we 0:05:21.360 --> 0:05:22.839 might need for it. I mean, it's going to be 0:05:22.839 --> 0:05:25.680 a big boon for the first company that hits it, 0:05:25.760 --> 0:05:28.040 and for the first company that hits it, right stepping 0:05:28.120 --> 0:05:30.799 into this marketplace and just kind of being the first 0:05:30.839 --> 0:05:32.960 one is such a huge thing. So for sure, I 0:05:33.000 --> 0:05:35.640 mean that makes sense that Facebook is pushing hard for 0:05:35.720 --> 0:05:37.839 something like that, um, and then you know they have 0:05:37.880 --> 0:05:40.160 all the other Facebook stuff built into it. That social 0:05:40.200 --> 0:05:42.840 aspect is already built in. So yeah, definitely I could 0:05:42.880 --> 0:05:45.480 see kind of the rush to get there. You did 0:05:45.560 --> 0:05:48.679 kind of mentioned some of the the privacy and security 0:05:48.720 --> 0:05:52.039 issues that do need to be addressed. There's a kind 0:05:52.040 --> 0:05:54.760 of this thing that we saw. I keep keep going 0:05:54.760 --> 0:05:57.600 back to the movie Ready Player one and kind of 0:05:57.640 --> 0:05:59.920 this thing where you know, people are starting to per 0:06:00.080 --> 0:06:02.360 her to live in these digital worlds and that's a 0:06:02.400 --> 0:06:05.400 real concern for psychologists and and a lot of people. 0:06:05.600 --> 0:06:07.400 And all you have to think of it right away 0:06:07.440 --> 0:06:10.400 is too young kids right now in technology digital natives, 0:06:10.720 --> 0:06:14.760 right they're adopting the technology so much faster already. If 0:06:14.800 --> 0:06:17.279 this stuff really fleshes out, I mean, they're gonna be 0:06:17.600 --> 0:06:20.960 growing up in this new technology and maybe a lot 0:06:21.040 --> 0:06:24.280 of it maybe blended into the educational experience, and so 0:06:24.400 --> 0:06:26.400 it will be natural for them and even into the 0:06:26.520 --> 0:06:29.320 into the work experience, and it will apply to everything 0:06:29.320 --> 0:06:33.159 in our lives social work, school, etcetera. And there is 0:06:33.200 --> 0:06:36.400 a concern especially if you're young minds to um. You know, 0:06:36.440 --> 0:06:40.120 young people, they develop their social skills, the real social 0:06:40.120 --> 0:06:42.760 skills in person at a very young age. And so 0:06:42.880 --> 0:06:46.400 if we start growing up or spending so much time online, 0:06:46.760 --> 0:06:49.640 there are concerns among mental health professionals that we could 0:06:49.640 --> 0:06:52.440 see problems in that area. And also we have to 0:06:52.440 --> 0:06:54.640 think about things like identity to like how do you 0:06:54.640 --> 0:06:57.159 know you're really talking to who you're talking to? You know, 0:06:57.440 --> 0:07:01.760 secure financial transactions. There's so many factors. And to your 0:07:01.760 --> 0:07:04.880 point earlier about Facebook jumping in and getting a head start, 0:07:05.120 --> 0:07:07.800 it's often said that the metaverse will not be owned 0:07:07.800 --> 0:07:10.560 by any one single entity, and Mark Zuckerberg has said 0:07:10.560 --> 0:07:12.560 that too, But there was also a race to get 0:07:12.600 --> 0:07:14.360 in and and and be a part of it and 0:07:14.400 --> 0:07:17.040 be part of the plumbing that that builds it and 0:07:17.280 --> 0:07:20.800 uh so there is some sense of competition on that level. Okay, 0:07:20.800 --> 0:07:23.200 so it's not this metaverse thing is not just all 0:07:23.240 --> 0:07:26.840 necessarily fun in games. There's real business aspects to this. 0:07:26.920 --> 0:07:28.480 You know, there's a lot of commerce that's going to 0:07:28.560 --> 0:07:31.960 be taking place on this everything from us things that 0:07:32.000 --> 0:07:35.200 the consumer wants, to businesses as well. You know when 0:07:35.240 --> 0:07:38.280 the experts you talked to, you said, every fortune one 0:07:37.840 --> 0:07:40.920 company is going to have a metaverse strategy. This is 0:07:40.960 --> 0:07:42.440 going to be a place where things like n f 0:07:42.480 --> 0:07:45.400 T s are gonna start just taking off completely. The 0:07:45.440 --> 0:07:47.720 business side of things are really going to take off. 0:07:48.440 --> 0:07:50.480 We can't expect a lot of companies to have like 0:07:50.520 --> 0:07:52.560 a presence in the metaverse just like they have a 0:07:52.600 --> 0:07:55.800 presence online today, the difference being in One example I 0:07:55.880 --> 0:07:58.560 like to use is imagine if you're shopping for a 0:07:58.680 --> 0:08:00.960 camping tent right now, could look at it online. You 0:08:01.000 --> 0:08:02.720 may even be able to use a r to sort 0:08:02.720 --> 0:08:05.800 of picture in uh in your backyard for example, if 0:08:05.800 --> 0:08:09.480 you wanted to. But with the metaverse, theoretically you would 0:08:09.480 --> 0:08:12.840 be able to physically stand inside it. You would look up, 0:08:12.880 --> 0:08:14.720 you would look down, left, right, you would see them 0:08:14.720 --> 0:08:16.320 as you're all around you. You You would know, if you're 0:08:16.320 --> 0:08:18.160 a very tall person, whether or not you fit in it, 0:08:18.240 --> 0:08:20.480 and how comfortable it might be, and how many you 0:08:20.480 --> 0:08:22.480 can fit, you get all your family in it. Um 0:08:22.520 --> 0:08:25.080 you'll look to each other's avatars, but you'll be in 0:08:25.320 --> 0:08:28.240 real size. It'll be just like you are in real life. 0:08:28.400 --> 0:08:30.320 And uh, if you raise your hand in real life, 0:08:30.320 --> 0:08:32.560 your your avatar's arm would raise your hand. You would 0:08:32.600 --> 0:08:35.400 look left, look right, same thing. So this is where 0:08:35.400 --> 0:08:37.880 it really takes things up a couple of levels in 0:08:37.960 --> 0:08:42.240 terms of sophistication and immersiveness and for businesses, that presents 0:08:42.400 --> 0:08:46.320 uh and incredible opportunities. Probably once we haven't even thought of. 0:08:46.440 --> 0:08:48.559 And at least one of the people I spoke to 0:08:48.600 --> 0:08:52.280 you for the article talked about this idea of virtual pets. 0:08:52.320 --> 0:08:54.760 So this would be a business that doesn't necessarily quite 0:08:54.800 --> 0:08:57.480 exist today. We we have sort of little iterations of 0:08:57.480 --> 0:09:01.440 that and the in roadblocks and some other small initiatives 0:09:01.480 --> 0:09:04.120 around n f teeth going back to go back to 0:09:04.200 --> 0:09:08.960 your tomages even exactly kind of like that, and that's 0:09:09.000 --> 0:09:11.679 where the blockcheain kind of technology the n f T 0:09:11.800 --> 0:09:13.599 s are both around could make sense. I mean, it 0:09:13.640 --> 0:09:15.560 could be something we haven't even thought of that doesn't 0:09:15.559 --> 0:09:18.800 exist yet today in terms of securing digital assets and 0:09:18.840 --> 0:09:20.680 how you would make it so that you could breed 0:09:20.720 --> 0:09:23.320 a pet and would have an original quote unquote d 0:09:23.440 --> 0:09:26.079 n A in the metaverse world, and then you could 0:09:26.120 --> 0:09:29.880 potentially have racing and gambling on these races because I 0:09:29.920 --> 0:09:32.920 will have this, you know, original code that was created 0:09:33.000 --> 0:09:37.720 to be for your three headed unicorn with purple teeth 0:09:37.760 --> 0:09:42.360 and sneakers on whatever. The possibilities are endless, but it's 0:09:42.440 --> 0:09:46.320 really exciting, and you can imagine the commerce perspective. There'll 0:09:46.360 --> 0:09:49.680 be many things to buy and lots of fun ways 0:09:49.720 --> 0:09:52.720 to shop, and lots of experiences the money on it 0:09:52.760 --> 0:09:55.839 really is pretty exciting to think how far we've gotten 0:09:55.880 --> 0:09:58.560 with technology and something like this metaverse is kind of 0:09:58.600 --> 0:10:01.080 that culmination of all of the past things that we've 0:10:01.080 --> 0:10:05.600 been put together. Like I said, tomagotchis augmented reality, virtual rally, everything, 0:10:05.880 --> 0:10:07.880 you know, the whole Internet age kind of all put 0:10:07.920 --> 0:10:10.439 together one. It's pretty exciting to think about the very 0:10:10.440 --> 0:10:13.600 lofty goal. We'll see how quickly we can get there 0:10:13.679 --> 0:10:15.920 or these companies can get there, but just fun to 0:10:15.960 --> 0:10:19.320 think about the future that way. Sarah Needleman, tech reporter 0:10:19.480 --> 0:10:21.319 at the Wall Street Journal. Thank you very much for 0:10:21.400 --> 0:10:23.920 joining us. It was a lot of fun controding me 0:10:26.400 --> 0:10:29.520 my monscar Romors, and this has been reopening America. Don't 0:10:29.520 --> 0:10:31.840 forget that. Today's big news stories. You can check me 0:10:31.840 --> 0:10:34.480 out on the Daily Dive podcast every mondy through Friday. 0:10:34.640 --> 0:10:37.000 So follow us on I Heart Radio or wherever you 0:10:37.040 --> 0:10:37.840 get your podcast.