WEBVTT - The Restaurant Whisperer 0:00:03.440 --> 0:00:06.640 I'm Alec Baldwin and you're listening to Here's the thing. 0:00:08.039 --> 0:00:11.959 Deborah Clatter is the biggest name in a very small 0:00:12.000 --> 0:00:19.720 profession restaurant recommender, not reviewer recommender. Here's how she puts it. 0:00:19.720 --> 0:00:22.320 It's not about look what's hot and happening. It's about 0:00:22.320 --> 0:00:24.919 what's happening for you just grabbing a bite on a 0:00:24.960 --> 0:00:28.840 Thursday night birthday. I'm here to supply you with an 0:00:28.840 --> 0:00:33.640 adventure or comfort. Clutter can tell you the best mofongo 0:00:33.720 --> 0:00:38.120 in the Bronx and which Michelin two stars accommodate siliacs. 0:00:39.600 --> 0:00:42.320 I've known her for years, going back to her days 0:00:42.760 --> 0:00:45.519 as a lighting designer on some of the best and 0:00:45.640 --> 0:00:50.360 most challenging stages in New York. She's risen just as 0:00:50.440 --> 0:00:55.040 high in her newfield. Restaurants are eager for her clientele, 0:00:55.480 --> 0:00:58.560 so she keeps a low profile. We did not post 0:00:58.600 --> 0:01:01.920 a headshot for this next episode, and her name isn't 0:01:01.960 --> 0:01:06.520 even on her website eat Quest and y C. That 0:01:06.640 --> 0:01:11.160 anonymity will be familiar to anyone who knows about restaurant critics. 0:01:12.000 --> 0:01:16.440 But unlike with critics, not just Cletter's face, but her voice, 0:01:16.920 --> 0:01:20.720 even her taste are absent. From her work too. You know, 0:01:20.959 --> 0:01:25.120 I check out a swath of restaurants for other people's taste, 0:01:25.160 --> 0:01:27.800 not my own, because my taste, honestly would be you know, 0:01:27.840 --> 0:01:29.920 I like places where waitresses have been working there for 0:01:29.959 --> 0:01:32.720 thirty five years. I'm not going to make everybody else 0:01:32.720 --> 0:01:37.680 do there. When you say you do this and you're 0:01:37.800 --> 0:01:42.760 tilting towards your clientele, what do they typically want? The 0:01:42.800 --> 0:01:45.200 most popular request and I know you'll identify with this 0:01:45.400 --> 0:01:50.440 is quiet. It's like Pankotonia. Why do I love pankota 0:01:50.520 --> 0:01:52.280 You want to know why? There might be a little 0:01:52.760 --> 0:01:55.840 little Coltrane on the background. I'm having my eggs in 0:01:55.920 --> 0:01:59.559 my croissant with Coltrane very low, you know. And there's 0:01:59.560 --> 0:02:01.720 another place sound like I like the food, but you 0:02:01.800 --> 0:02:04.800 know they're playing that particular music and they're playing it 0:02:04.840 --> 0:02:06.040 that loud because they want to get you out of 0:02:06.080 --> 0:02:09.240 there as fast as possible. Well, music sets the pace 0:02:09.280 --> 0:02:10.720 for a meal, and it just you know, you look 0:02:10.760 --> 0:02:15.160 at somebody like Alex Stupac, who has Empon in um Midtown, 0:02:15.600 --> 0:02:18.960 and he also has Empon al Pastore, which is tacos 0:02:19.080 --> 0:02:22.400 in the East Village at pastor. He plays the music 0:02:22.480 --> 0:02:26.000 he said as loud as humanly possible. Why because there 0:02:26.120 --> 0:02:28.400 it's dealing with people who are younger, and it's people 0:02:28.400 --> 0:02:30.520 who are also um, you know, want to have a 0:02:30.520 --> 0:02:32.720 good time, want to get off the sort of the 0:02:32.760 --> 0:02:34.480 buzz and the high of like being there with this 0:02:34.560 --> 0:02:38.560 great music and eating tacos and all that. So that's 0:02:38.600 --> 0:02:41.119 like a rock concert. But he said that the Empyon 0:02:41.360 --> 0:02:44.760 in Midtown is like the studio album. He put in 0:02:44.760 --> 0:02:47.680 these sound panels so that people can it's convivial and 0:02:47.720 --> 0:02:50.720 fun and all of that, but you can also hear yourself. 0:02:50.760 --> 0:02:53.560 Think you have to know your audience. It doesn't bother 0:02:53.639 --> 0:02:55.120 you in some restaurants you go to with the music 0:02:55.200 --> 0:02:58.720 is playing, of course it does. A friend of well, 0:02:58.760 --> 0:03:00.799 a friend of mine was was eating in Brooklyn to 0:03:00.840 --> 0:03:02.799 a place that I sent her and she said the 0:03:02.880 --> 0:03:05.320 music was really loud. So I said, is it possible 0:03:05.360 --> 0:03:07.079 that you could just turn it down a little bit? 0:03:07.120 --> 0:03:09.799 And the person said the waitress said, that's how it's 0:03:09.800 --> 0:03:13.680 done in Brooklyn. Oh, really right, And and that's how 0:03:13.760 --> 0:03:16.120 it's done in Brooklyn. Really, we don't have a lot 0:03:16.160 --> 0:03:19.079 on our mind, so really, what's the getting in the 0:03:19.080 --> 0:03:20.840 way of we want to have a good time. We 0:03:20.840 --> 0:03:22.440 want to have a good time. That's what I really meant. 0:03:22.720 --> 0:03:24.560 So anyway, but I think that people want to go 0:03:24.639 --> 0:03:27.600 somewhere where they can actually have a conversation. And that 0:03:27.680 --> 0:03:30.440 comes up so often. And it's only really true in 0:03:30.480 --> 0:03:33.960 America because equals it's global, even though it's called Equest 0:03:34.000 --> 0:03:36.920 and y see um and I've got people, I got 0:03:36.960 --> 0:03:40.080 people all over the plans. You're you're, you're the equest 0:03:40.480 --> 0:03:43.840 NYC is booking people around the world. Yeah, I do 0:03:43.960 --> 0:03:46.560 Italy a lot. I do. I have my Bible you 0:03:46.600 --> 0:03:50.760 gave me, you do, It's true, I can update it nowts. 0:03:50.880 --> 0:03:53.040 I know I go a little overboard because I get 0:03:53.040 --> 0:03:54.800 really excited and I think, oh no, wait, you have 0:03:54.840 --> 0:03:57.240 to eat here, and you have to try this. But basically, 0:03:57.600 --> 0:03:59.760 I get so many people who say, we wanted to 0:03:59.760 --> 0:04:02.200 go to dinner. We spent an hour looking at the internet. 0:04:02.440 --> 0:04:04.760 We got overwhelmed by the amount of choices. So we 0:04:04.800 --> 0:04:06.760 went to the same place we always go to, and 0:04:06.800 --> 0:04:08.760 we want to go somewhere else, So where can we go? 0:04:08.840 --> 0:04:10.720 So sometimes people come to me for a list of 0:04:11.080 --> 0:04:14.440 ten new places new to them. They want your recommendation, 0:04:14.440 --> 0:04:16.040 meaning they don't come to you and say I want 0:04:16.040 --> 0:04:17.960 to go to pair say or whatever, and you or 0:04:17.960 --> 0:04:19.840 there was something right that who were very self determining. 0:04:19.960 --> 0:04:22.200 There's some of your self determining. But I'm really not 0:04:22.279 --> 0:04:24.960 that person. I mean, I'm happy to do that that 0:04:25.040 --> 0:04:27.240 can but what I pay you, if they pay me, 0:04:27.279 --> 0:04:29.040 I'm you know, I'll do whatever you want me to do. 0:04:30.160 --> 0:04:33.480 Um No, but it's but what's fun for me about 0:04:33.520 --> 0:04:35.919 it is that it's kind of like a dating service 0:04:36.120 --> 0:04:40.880 for people in their food. I asked certain questions such as, uh, 0:04:41.000 --> 0:04:43.120 tell me three places you hate in three places you lot. 0:04:43.120 --> 0:04:45.480 So this is a questionnaire. They feel like everything is online. Um, 0:04:45.560 --> 0:04:47.560 everything is by email. It's not. I don't have a 0:04:47.600 --> 0:04:50.360 formal questionnaire, although I probably you know, should you're not 0:04:50.400 --> 0:04:52.080 on the phone with anybody? Not? Really, they don't get 0:04:52.080 --> 0:04:55.320 the food. They declared a sex phone sex voice. A 0:04:55.320 --> 0:04:56.919 lot of deals with that voice. But I'll tell you 0:04:57.080 --> 0:04:59.080 I should tell them to call. It's really self robbery 0:04:59.080 --> 0:05:02.480 that you're not doing. But you do it by email. 0:05:02.760 --> 0:05:04.560 I usually do it by email, and people are welcome 0:05:04.600 --> 0:05:06.919 to call me. It's just that people seem to you know, 0:05:07.040 --> 0:05:11.880 they're busy, they don't pick up, so that wouldn't work, 0:05:11.920 --> 0:05:14.360 really think about it, and you have a standard set 0:05:14.360 --> 0:05:16.200 of questions. I have just a couple of basic ones, 0:05:16.240 --> 0:05:18.760 and then the questions are determined by who they are, 0:05:18.839 --> 0:05:21.599 if they're you know, I did. Somebody came from London 0:05:21.800 --> 0:05:26.240 last winter over the holidays and they had children ranging 0:05:26.240 --> 0:05:29.800 an age from eighteen to six and they wanted to 0:05:29.800 --> 0:05:34.480 go places with them. That was not easy and macaroni 0:05:34.640 --> 0:05:37.599 cheese exactly. So I had to sort of come up 0:05:37.640 --> 0:05:39.200 with a whole range of things. Plus, you know, I 0:05:39.240 --> 0:05:41.360 branched out a little. They wanted some activities and all 0:05:41.400 --> 0:05:43.599 of that. So I got very involved with the Knicks 0:05:43.680 --> 0:05:45.960 organization because they wanted to go to a basketball game 0:05:46.000 --> 0:05:47.880 and you know, I found them the right seats and 0:05:47.920 --> 0:05:49.640 all that kind of stuff. So they do some other 0:05:49.680 --> 0:05:51.360 things as well. They did and it was kind of 0:05:51.440 --> 0:05:54.360 it was fun actually, but but basically I stick to food. 0:05:54.640 --> 0:05:57.160 But it was interesting to define things that I thought 0:05:57.160 --> 0:05:59.920 would appeal to everyone. And I love the challenge. I 0:06:00.040 --> 0:06:02.839 love the challenge of somebody sort of saying like, here's 0:06:02.839 --> 0:06:05.920 all the things I won't eat, here's what I don't like. Um, 0:06:06.240 --> 0:06:08.400 now find me something that I want, right, And I 0:06:08.440 --> 0:06:11.000 feel like, okay, they want you to read their mind. 0:06:11.160 --> 0:06:12.560 They do. I want you to tell me what I 0:06:12.560 --> 0:06:15.520 don't even know about myself. Can I tell a lighting story? 0:06:15.640 --> 0:06:17.320 Is that? Out of that you can do whatever you want. 0:06:18.480 --> 0:06:20.160 Years ago I had a client when I was doing 0:06:20.200 --> 0:06:22.559 interior lighting, and he said, and he had a couch 0:06:22.600 --> 0:06:24.640 in the middle of a big room and aloft and 0:06:24.680 --> 0:06:27.279 no tables near nothing else. And he said, I want 0:06:27.320 --> 0:06:29.840 to read on the couch, but I don't want any walstconsins, 0:06:29.880 --> 0:06:32.040 I don't want any ceiling light, and I don't want 0:06:32.080 --> 0:06:34.359 any lamps, you know. And I thought, like, okay, a 0:06:34.400 --> 0:06:37.640 miner's hat could work out well for you. But with 0:06:37.640 --> 0:06:43.479 a torch he summoned you snap and I could record 0:06:43.520 --> 0:06:46.559 it for you could move your eyes over the page 0:06:46.600 --> 0:06:49.160 in the dark. And I'm reading here. I want to 0:06:49.160 --> 0:06:51.679 go back, and mentioned to people, said they don't lose 0:06:52.279 --> 0:06:55.560 track here. You and I met in nine when I 0:06:55.640 --> 0:06:58.279 was when we were doing Prelude to a Kiss. We 0:06:58.360 --> 0:07:00.000 did that at eighty nine and then we went nine. 0:07:00.000 --> 0:07:02.919 You want into the film, and you were doing lighting 0:07:02.960 --> 0:07:05.640 design in the Theater of Broadway, and you were very 0:07:05.680 --> 0:07:08.440 close with Norman, the late Norman Renett, who directed the play, 0:07:08.760 --> 0:07:10.040 and you were doing that kind of work, and then 0:07:10.080 --> 0:07:13.680 you went into residential lighting, the garden lighting, mostly because 0:07:13.680 --> 0:07:16.520 garden lighting is like getting to light a set without 0:07:16.520 --> 0:07:18.480 having to worry about the actor's faces. So you have 0:07:18.520 --> 0:07:22.040 nobody saying like make it brighter, they're not laughing, um, 0:07:22.080 --> 0:07:23.400 you know, and you get to do all the sort 0:07:23.400 --> 0:07:26.320 of evocative, mysterious How did you design in the theater 0:07:26.720 --> 0:07:31.000 over work? Um? Gosh? Uh years? I mean, you know, 0:07:31.080 --> 0:07:33.800 like for sixteen years or something when you stopped. Why 0:07:33.800 --> 0:07:37.760 did you stop? I stopped partly because all the directors 0:07:37.800 --> 0:07:41.520 I knew were either going to TV, film or dying. 0:07:41.920 --> 0:07:45.560 Norman passed away from you, remember, so for you, just 0:07:45.600 --> 0:07:48.080 the lands, the landscape you changed, and I missed it. 0:07:48.120 --> 0:07:50.440 I missed the collaborative experience of it. But my other 0:07:50.440 --> 0:07:52.880 passion was always food, and I was always the person 0:07:52.920 --> 0:07:55.000 that people asked, you know, like where can we go? 0:07:55.080 --> 0:07:56.640 What can we do? And you know, in the early 0:07:56.720 --> 0:07:59.280 days before the internet, Norman and I would want we 0:07:59.280 --> 0:08:00.880 had no money, and we would walk all over the 0:08:00.880 --> 0:08:02.680 city all the time just for fun, and you'd walk 0:08:02.720 --> 0:08:05.600 into neighborhoods that were not gentrified and you'd find this 0:08:05.680 --> 0:08:08.280 like fantastic little place that no one knew about because 0:08:08.280 --> 0:08:11.000 there wasn't an internet, And you know, then we drag 0:08:11.080 --> 0:08:13.280 people down there, and you know, I would drag people 0:08:13.280 --> 0:08:16.560 down there and find places, and it just it's something 0:08:16.560 --> 0:08:18.720 that always made me really happy to do. You know, 0:08:19.120 --> 0:08:22.000 finding a restaurant, reading a menu is is sort of 0:08:22.080 --> 0:08:26.960 a calm experience for me. It's it's it's pleasure back then, 0:08:27.560 --> 0:08:30.240 wandering the streets with Norman and you had no money. 0:08:30.640 --> 0:08:34.200 Dining is expensive, and so how do you manage to 0:08:34.240 --> 0:08:36.600 go and sample? How do you know all these places? 0:08:36.600 --> 0:08:39.280 Do you just have a word? Are you always the 0:08:39.360 --> 0:08:41.440 honored guest at the table because you're such an expert? 0:08:41.440 --> 0:08:42.840 You of a lot of friend Seriously, because I know 0:08:42.840 --> 0:08:45.160 people like this. That is partly true. If I picked 0:08:45.200 --> 0:08:46.640 the place and I tell them what we're going to 0:08:46.760 --> 0:08:48.400 do and what we're going to have and stuff, I'm 0:08:48.400 --> 0:08:51.000 at the table. Totally true. And Norman and I used 0:08:51.000 --> 0:08:52.679 to we used to go to a coffee shop around 0:08:52.679 --> 0:08:55.000 the corner from the theater company that we ran, and 0:08:55.320 --> 0:08:58.160 um and the guy the waiter there knew us and 0:08:58.160 --> 0:09:00.200 he treated us like it was twenty one and and 0:09:00.640 --> 0:09:02.360 I was a little late one day and Norman was 0:09:02.400 --> 0:09:04.280 waiting for me, and the waiter came over to him 0:09:04.360 --> 0:09:08.000 and said, um, are you waiting for her? You can 0:09:08.200 --> 0:09:10.160 always sort of make an occasion I think out of 0:09:10.200 --> 0:09:12.760 anywhere you go and for me, I can supply you 0:09:12.800 --> 0:09:15.880 with luxury. I can also supply you with an affordable alternative, 0:09:16.360 --> 0:09:18.720 because there's so many great places to eat in New 0:09:18.800 --> 0:09:21.880 York that are not expensive and so eat. Question I 0:09:22.000 --> 0:09:24.199 see is not about, you know, you have to have 0:09:24.280 --> 0:09:25.640 a lot of money and you have to go here. 0:09:26.080 --> 0:09:28.640 It's really about you know, finding like a great dumpling 0:09:28.920 --> 0:09:32.760 in uh, you know in Queens, or finding you know 0:09:32.840 --> 0:09:37.959 something low, you know, great eggplant, Parmersian hero. Exactly what's 0:09:38.040 --> 0:09:42.680 changed in New York in terms of dining, Oh, that's interesting. Trends, 0:09:42.800 --> 0:09:46.720 things you see, attitudes, cost I mean there's always trends, 0:09:46.720 --> 0:09:49.800 like right now, I think that vegan has become so popular, 0:09:49.840 --> 0:09:52.760 so now there are vegan restaurants popping up everywhere, and 0:09:52.760 --> 0:09:54.920 and then there's also sort of the whole let's have 0:09:54.960 --> 0:09:57.160 a lot of meat and cheese. So they're you know 0:09:57.240 --> 0:10:00.800 burgers that the Emmy burger, which is from the pizza place, 0:10:00.880 --> 0:10:06.679 but they're burgers legendary. It's you know, like two patties, cheese, sauce, pickles, 0:10:06.840 --> 0:10:10.800 the works on a pretzel bun, and and and so 0:10:11.280 --> 0:10:13.960 partly because time is being what they are in the world, 0:10:14.640 --> 0:10:18.040 everybody really wants comfort they do. You find that's true 0:10:18.200 --> 0:10:20.760 in your work, in my work, it may not make 0:10:20.800 --> 0:10:22.840 them feel good right after, but it makes them feel 0:10:22.840 --> 0:10:24.400 good while they're doing it. And you can sort of 0:10:24.440 --> 0:10:27.160 like get a little bit of solace from today's news. 0:10:27.200 --> 0:10:31.200 And high end Korean has taken off, and um, you 0:10:31.240 --> 0:10:33.320 can't swing a dead cat without hitting a really good 0:10:33.360 --> 0:10:36.600 pizza place. There are so many people coming from Naples 0:10:36.640 --> 0:10:39.120 to have an opening here as well as in Naples. 0:10:39.400 --> 0:10:42.440 High end pizza high end pizza. But there's also slices, 0:10:42.679 --> 0:10:45.120 not ninety nine cent slices, but three dollar and fifty 0:10:45.120 --> 0:10:47.800 cent slices are making a comeback. So there are some 0:10:47.840 --> 0:10:50.959 really fantastic places where you know, you can go get 0:10:51.000 --> 0:10:53.280 a slice, and there's a cocktail bar there too, like 0:10:53.320 --> 0:10:57.120 Scars Pizza on Orchard Streets. It's like where you would 0:10:57.120 --> 0:10:59.719 go after school to have a slice with your friends. 0:10:59.760 --> 0:11:01.560 So there's a lot of that going on too, and 0:11:01.559 --> 0:11:03.360 there are a lot of people doing you know, poly 0:11:03.520 --> 0:11:07.040 g who's who has a really great pizza restaurant in Greenpoint. 0:11:08.679 --> 0:11:12.640 But um he um, he just opened a slice place 0:11:12.679 --> 0:11:16.200 that's been long awaited and much heralded in the Slice world. 0:11:16.480 --> 0:11:19.800 Slice World, It's true. Man, there's a magazine called Slice World. 0:11:20.200 --> 0:11:24.680 Don't don't laugh. There is, there's the website Slice Adam 0:11:24.679 --> 0:11:26.679 who ran it, and then there's Scott who does these 0:11:26.679 --> 0:11:29.720 pizza tours there. You know, there's it's a singular focus. 0:11:29.800 --> 0:11:32.320 But man, they know what they're doing. There's nothing like 0:11:32.360 --> 0:11:36.120 a good slice, a friend, it's a hot meal. Why 0:11:36.200 --> 0:11:38.560 you eat pizza. It's a hot meal, and it's filling, 0:11:38.559 --> 0:11:43.839 and it's good vegetables, dairy, protein, protein, brand all the 0:11:43.880 --> 0:11:46.520 food groups, that's right, all the old fashioned food groups. 0:11:46.559 --> 0:11:50.120 But yes, I know what was You know we were 0:11:50.160 --> 0:11:52.440 gonna say, go ahead, go ahead, you go. Well, it's 0:11:52.440 --> 0:11:54.520 gonna just say that. I think trends, you know, they 0:11:54.520 --> 0:11:56.480 go also with the way the planet goes. I mean, 0:11:56.520 --> 0:12:00.520 now everything is becoming about sustainability. And so there's a um, 0:12:00.559 --> 0:12:03.000 a sushi restaurant. It's the only sushi restaurant in New 0:12:03.080 --> 0:12:07.160 York that does sustainable sushi. Um And I'm forgetting what 0:12:07.240 --> 0:12:10.000 street it's on, but they do in Omaka, sees you 0:12:10.040 --> 0:12:11.760 sit at the counter and you you know they'll still 0:12:11.800 --> 0:12:13.760 present to you what you know, the chef feels is 0:12:13.800 --> 0:12:16.080 good that day and what what you know what he's 0:12:16.120 --> 0:12:21.920 going to serve? No, just a sushi master. And there 0:12:21.920 --> 0:12:24.480 are things now like you know there's crowd cow you 0:12:24.559 --> 0:12:28.400 can there's literally crowd cow funding. What does that mean. 0:12:28.480 --> 0:12:30.320 One of the people started was a guy who started 0:12:30.440 --> 0:12:32.920 Urban Daddy, which is a restaurant site people off and 0:12:32.920 --> 0:12:35.679 go to and um. It's so that he realized that 0:12:35.720 --> 0:12:38.480 people were getting meat from farms, but not everybody can 0:12:38.520 --> 0:12:40.440 like buy a whole cow and store it and all 0:12:40.480 --> 0:12:43.800 of that. So you can participate with like fifty people 0:12:44.280 --> 0:12:47.319 and by the section of cow you want from a farmer, 0:12:47.760 --> 0:12:49.559 then you know where the meats from, you know what 0:12:49.600 --> 0:12:55.439 you're getting. You're supporting small farms. It's right, which is 0:12:55.480 --> 0:12:57.280 so much nicer because you don't feel forced to go 0:12:57.320 --> 0:13:01.679 back there again and food waste. Someone like Dan Barber, 0:13:01.720 --> 0:13:05.400 who has Blue Hill and Stone Barns in in Terrytown. 0:13:05.880 --> 0:13:07.640 A couple of years ago, he did what he was 0:13:07.679 --> 0:13:11.200 calling garbage dinners and taking the parts of vegetables and 0:13:11.280 --> 0:13:13.200 meat that everyone chucks because it's like, that's not the 0:13:13.240 --> 0:13:15.360 pretty part. And um, you know, so we don't need 0:13:15.400 --> 0:13:17.480 the stems, so the broccoli, or we don't need the 0:13:17.720 --> 0:13:20.600 you know. And here, oh well, I mean if you're 0:13:20.640 --> 0:13:22.640 a chef and a chef and you're chopping up the 0:13:22.640 --> 0:13:24.920 broccoli and you just take the florets and that's part 0:13:24.960 --> 0:13:28.600 that you're going to beg yes, exactly, and so now 0:13:28.679 --> 0:13:31.120 these dinners. So all these chefs came and they created 0:13:31.160 --> 0:13:34.320 dinners only out of the parts that weren't pretty rescued fruit, 0:13:34.920 --> 0:13:38.040 and it was fantastic. You know. The idea now I 0:13:38.080 --> 0:13:42.280 think for now and forever is zero waste and we 0:13:42.320 --> 0:13:45.280 can't afford it as as a planet. In beef production 0:13:45.400 --> 0:13:48.480 is one of the two three culprits that's clappering exactly 0:13:48.520 --> 0:13:51.800 forest and they're cutting everything down to grays beef cattle. 0:13:52.120 --> 0:13:56.240 But describe your childhood and food in your childhood, your family, 0:13:56.320 --> 0:13:58.760 your home, what was it like. Um, we always had 0:13:58.760 --> 0:14:01.000 cousins and other people. Every one would come to our house, 0:14:01.200 --> 0:14:04.640 so we had the house where people would crash. He 0:14:04.760 --> 0:14:09.280 was a businessman and um, coming from a culturally Jewish household, 0:14:09.360 --> 0:14:12.720 not a religious Jewish household, it was really about food. 0:14:12.760 --> 0:14:15.880 It's Italians, and I think Jews are very food focused, 0:14:16.000 --> 0:14:21.680 and so everyone cooked. And my sister and left when 0:14:21.720 --> 0:14:24.480 I was still young. She got out of there, she ran, 0:14:24.560 --> 0:14:25.960 but the only thing she could make when she left 0:14:26.000 --> 0:14:29.200 were Swedish meat balls. Um. I remember my brother went 0:14:29.200 --> 0:14:31.200 away to college and he came back and he was like, 0:14:31.360 --> 0:14:33.440 I have to make my begea mill sauce for you, 0:14:33.920 --> 0:14:36.320 and um, you know, and he was so excited about it. 0:14:36.320 --> 0:14:38.960 And my mother always if you told my mother you 0:14:39.080 --> 0:14:41.520 like something, she wouldn't make it again. But if you 0:14:41.600 --> 0:14:44.000 told her, you know, you didn't, she sort of experiment further. 0:14:44.120 --> 0:14:46.640 I don't I don't don't really know why, but and 0:14:46.840 --> 0:14:48.720 you know, I was really indulged. My mother would make 0:14:48.720 --> 0:14:50.680 me something else if I didn't like what she was making. 0:14:50.840 --> 0:14:52.720 And that's probably why I was picking too, because I 0:14:52.720 --> 0:14:54.960 got what I wanted. But she would make things like 0:14:55.000 --> 0:14:59.840 banana meat loaf. Um. It was like no, please, please, 0:14:59.840 --> 0:15:01.960 don't to do that again. But she also made something 0:15:01.960 --> 0:15:05.240 that we all called slop. It remains. It was remains essentially, 0:15:05.280 --> 0:15:07.240 and she put all together and we all loved it. 0:15:07.280 --> 0:15:09.080 And we didn't fte friends over and say we're having 0:15:09.080 --> 0:15:13.480 sloped tonight if you want to come for dinner, that 0:15:13.680 --> 0:15:18.040 doesn't um when you get out of the house, when 0:15:18.080 --> 0:15:19.960 you leave home, and where do you go to school? 0:15:20.280 --> 0:15:23.360 In Madison, Wisconsin? Because you wanted to be a radical? 0:15:23.680 --> 0:15:26.400 I want to be radical and um. And also because 0:15:26.720 --> 0:15:28.960 there was a lighting professor who taught there who has 0:15:29.320 --> 0:15:32.080 since departed the planet, but he was really well known. 0:15:32.200 --> 0:15:33.960 He lit all over the world, but he did things 0:15:34.040 --> 0:15:36.040 like the ballet and the opera and at the mad 0:15:36.080 --> 0:15:37.560 And you knew then that's what you wanted to do. 0:15:37.640 --> 0:15:39.800 Oh yeah, because I always sort of related to light, 0:15:40.280 --> 0:15:43.080 even as a child. I understood light and shadow. So 0:15:43.160 --> 0:15:46.280 he was teaching there and I wanted to study with him. 0:15:46.320 --> 0:15:48.720 And so you're at Wisconsin for four years. You go 0:15:48.800 --> 0:15:54.600 four years and graduate? Yeah, you graduates, says in that papacy. 0:15:54.640 --> 0:15:57.120 It's my resumecy. My parents are did I can tell 0:15:57.120 --> 0:16:01.320 the truth? Wait wait, Elizabeth Warren ain't runing for president. 0:16:02.840 --> 0:16:04.720 You're on your own. And I know that things changed 0:16:04.760 --> 0:16:07.600 for me significantly in terms of food, But I think 0:16:07.600 --> 0:16:10.960 of these milestones. I think of these benchmarks in terms 0:16:11.000 --> 0:16:14.200 of my relationship to food and how that changes over 0:16:14.240 --> 0:16:17.080 the years. And some very significant things. And the first 0:16:17.360 --> 0:16:20.160 turn of the dial is leaving my home and going 0:16:20.160 --> 0:16:23.680 to school, where all of a sudden, you know, what 0:16:23.800 --> 0:16:26.000 I eat is up to me. What I'm going to 0:16:26.080 --> 0:16:28.880 eat I decide because when I was back home as 0:16:28.920 --> 0:16:30.960 a child, my mother would cooked dinner. If she had 0:16:30.960 --> 0:16:33.440 six kids. My family had no money. My mother would 0:16:33.520 --> 0:16:36.680 make roasted chickens and vegetables in a salad. Everybody ate. Well, 0:16:36.720 --> 0:16:38.160 there's a lot of other things we didn't have, but 0:16:38.200 --> 0:16:42.240 everybody had clothes and food my my father's insistence. And 0:16:42.280 --> 0:16:43.920 I go to college, what I'm gonna eat is up 0:16:43.920 --> 0:16:46.680 to me? And uh. There was a place of years 0:16:46.680 --> 0:16:49.960 ago in Washington and Georgetown on the Canal called the Foundry. 0:16:50.760 --> 0:16:53.240 It's interesting how the first thing I did was get 0:16:53.240 --> 0:16:54.680 a job as a way to where I could eat, 0:16:55.720 --> 0:16:58.720 because you get a shift meal. But I think unconsciously 0:16:58.760 --> 0:17:01.360 I put myself at these things. In these jobs, I 0:17:01.400 --> 0:17:04.480 did student activities and things where there was food being served, 0:17:04.920 --> 0:17:06.720 and I could eat things that I couldn't afford to 0:17:06.760 --> 0:17:09.640 pay for because I was on a meal plan. Fantastic, yea. 0:17:10.040 --> 0:17:12.240 But for you, how did you eat when you were 0:17:12.280 --> 0:17:15.239 in college. I do remember the first night that I 0:17:15.320 --> 0:17:18.399 was there walking through the town at night, thinking I 0:17:18.440 --> 0:17:20.760 can go anywhere, I can do anything. We can I 0:17:20.800 --> 0:17:22.880 can go get something to eat, I mean something cheap 0:17:22.920 --> 0:17:25.240 and obviously and all that. But everyone was in the 0:17:25.240 --> 0:17:28.560 same boat, so you were together, um and it was 0:17:28.600 --> 0:17:31.840 really exciting. But being in Wisconsin, it was a lot 0:17:31.880 --> 0:17:35.320 of cheese and that wasn't good. You know. In the end, 0:17:38.160 --> 0:17:41.320 of course, all that dairy was time well spent. If 0:17:41.400 --> 0:17:45.640 Deborah Cletter gets a client seeking the best cheese in Wisconsin, 0:17:46.840 --> 0:17:49.000 a good way for you to spend time is in 0:17:49.080 --> 0:17:52.200 the Here's the Thing archive. If all the food talk 0:17:52.320 --> 0:17:55.840 is driving you to the fridge, Dr Robert Lustig will 0:17:55.840 --> 0:17:59.399 put a damper on that. That's called addiction. We know 0:17:59.560 --> 0:18:02.080 how that works for all of these other drugs of abuse. 0:18:02.200 --> 0:18:05.040 Turns out sugar does the same same thing. It's the 0:18:05.080 --> 0:18:08.119 same as cocaine. The difference is that for cocaine you 0:18:08.200 --> 0:18:10.919 gotta go find it, whereas for sugar we have what 0:18:10.960 --> 0:18:14.960 we call system saturation. It's everywhere, you can't escape it. 0:18:15.560 --> 0:18:19.639 The charming, if alarming Doctor Robert Lustig can be found 0:18:19.680 --> 0:18:22.840 anytime with the rest of our past interviews and Here's 0:18:22.880 --> 0:18:28.920 the Thing dot org coming up New York's foremost restaurant recommender, 0:18:29.359 --> 0:18:33.880 Deborah Cletter of e quest NYC, makes her case against 0:18:34.000 --> 0:18:51.280 Yelp and trip Advisor. This is Alec Baldwin and you're 0:18:51.320 --> 0:18:55.000 listening to here's the thing now more With Deborah Clutter 0:18:55.320 --> 0:18:59.920 of eat quest NYC. She caters to her clients when 0:19:00.320 --> 0:19:02.879 and crazy things, but has a clear sense of what 0:19:03.080 --> 0:19:07.240 any restaurant needs to be great. What differentiates good and 0:19:07.280 --> 0:19:10.600 bad is conviviality. If a restaurant wants you to be there, 0:19:10.720 --> 0:19:12.600 if they're happy to make you the food and they 0:19:12.600 --> 0:19:15.240 want you to have a good time, it's sublime. It's 0:19:15.280 --> 0:19:18.040 just this wonderful experience. And you know that they're really 0:19:18.080 --> 0:19:20.600 happy for you to be eating their food, so you're 0:19:20.680 --> 0:19:24.439 really happy to be dining there. I've developed a pretty 0:19:24.560 --> 0:19:29.119 keen sense of when I'm around the person who I 0:19:29.200 --> 0:19:33.320 know they derive great pleasure from preparing food and serving food. 0:19:33.400 --> 0:19:35.560 They love to see people eat their food, and there's 0:19:35.560 --> 0:19:37.320 a kind of a glow they have. There's a kind 0:19:37.320 --> 0:19:40.119 of an incandescence thing. And so the thing for me 0:19:40.200 --> 0:19:43.720 now is that because I'm trying so much now to 0:19:43.880 --> 0:19:47.320 manage food in my life, and I'm wondering do you 0:19:47.359 --> 0:19:49.800 factor that into your recommendations with people? Do they ever 0:19:49.840 --> 0:19:51.800 say to you, I need healthy food, are going to 0:19:51.800 --> 0:19:54.639 be very careful. You know, it's interesting that hasn't come 0:19:54.720 --> 0:19:57.359 up as much as one would think. But I think 0:19:57.440 --> 0:20:00.359 the movement now is like the whole paleo thing, and 0:20:00.440 --> 0:20:03.000 so there are people eating like dachis and broths and 0:20:03.040 --> 0:20:06.080 consummes that the your fish is poached in and all that. 0:20:06.440 --> 0:20:09.560 But I think that there's comfort and there's health, and 0:20:09.680 --> 0:20:12.560 those two. You know, it's diametrically opposed, and there are 0:20:12.560 --> 0:20:14.720