WEBVTT - Divide and Conquer

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<v Speaker 1>Pushkin.

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<v Speaker 2>Not long ago, I had a dinner party at my house.

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<v Speaker 2>My friend Michael Ryan came. He's a lawyer, and I

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<v Speaker 2>was talking to him about my love of law review articles,

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<v Speaker 2>which is genuine.

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<v Speaker 1>By the way.

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<v Speaker 2>Here's a profession trained to find meaning in the particular,

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<v Speaker 2>in the arcane, to make the implausible plausible, to defend

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<v Speaker 2>the indefensible. I mean, how are those not the perfect

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<v Speaker 2>ingredients for a good read. Plus, law review articles have

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<v Speaker 2>epic footnotes, scores are settled, subtle loyally, jokes are made,

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<v Speaker 2>and the really outrageous arguments are slipped in just for

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<v Speaker 2>the benefit of the reader who wants to wait. In

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<v Speaker 2>Denote one thirty six on page eighty seven. I go

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<v Speaker 2>on like this until Michael Ryan kind of rolls his eyes,

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<v Speaker 2>because that's what lawyers do. I never know whether it's

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<v Speaker 2>modesty or self hatred, but as you can imagine, I persist,

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<v Speaker 2>and finally Michael says, well, you're right, there are moments

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<v Speaker 2>of genius in law review articles. Let me send you

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<v Speaker 2>two of my favorites. The next morning, in my inbox

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<v Speaker 2>is an email from Michael Ryan with two attachments. I

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<v Speaker 2>read the first, and I think that's pretty cool. And

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<v Speaker 2>then I read the second and my jaw drops, and

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<v Speaker 2>I say out loud.

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<v Speaker 1>What.

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<v Speaker 2>My name is? Malcolm Gladwell. Welcome to season three of

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<v Speaker 2>Revisionist History, my podcast about things overlooked and misunderstood. The

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<v Speaker 2>definition of a shaggy dog story is an extremely long

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<v Speaker 2>winded anecdote characterized by extensive narration of irrelevant incidence and

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<v Speaker 2>terminated by a pointless punchline. Halfway into this episode, you're

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<v Speaker 2>going to think that this is a shaggy dog story.

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<v Speaker 2>It's not. This dog is not shaggy. You wrote this

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<v Speaker 2>paper how many years ago? Fifteen years ago?

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah?

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<v Speaker 1>What is it?

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<v Speaker 3>Published? Two thousand and four, two.

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<v Speaker 1>Thousand and four.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, this is Professor Michael Stokes Paulson, co author of

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<v Speaker 2>the Law Review article in question. Within days of reading

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<v Speaker 2>his essay, I was in his office at Princeton University.

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<v Speaker 2>Took the train down because it seemed urgent. In an

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<v Speaker 2>email where he gave me directions, Paulson wrote, I'm always

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<v Speaker 2>grateful to have anyone read my obscure, idiosyncratic Law Review

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<v Speaker 2>articles exclamation point idiosyncratic.

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<v Speaker 1>Sure.

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<v Speaker 2>At least half of his piece dwelt on the meaning

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<v Speaker 2>and interpretation of semi colons, but obscure. This is something

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<v Speaker 2>with the potential to turn American politics upside down. Way

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<v Speaker 2>could this article be obscure? So what was the reaction

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<v Speaker 2>to it at the time?

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<v Speaker 3>Thundering silence as far as I know. I mean, I

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<v Speaker 3>haven't been trolling the internet for it, but I've never

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<v Speaker 3>seen anything to suggest that anybody is remotely interested in this.

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<v Speaker 3>Maybe you can convince them.

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<v Speaker 2>Wait, am I the first journalist to call you an

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<v Speaker 2>interview you about this?

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<v Speaker 3>Yes, I'm trying to remember if anybody did back in

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<v Speaker 3>two thousand and four, two thousand and five. No, people

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<v Speaker 3>are inclined to view it as a wacky idea. Right,

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<v Speaker 3>You're taking a legal concept of something that's one hundred

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<v Speaker 3>and seventy years old, and you're saying it's still operative.

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<v Speaker 3>If you think about it, logically, it is still operative.

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<v Speaker 3>But people's intuitions are that that can't be right and

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<v Speaker 3>so or that it can't be taken seriously. So, Malcolm,

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<v Speaker 3>you've got to get people who take it seriously.

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<v Speaker 2>You take it seriously. I don't think this is wacky

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<v Speaker 2>as at all. I read this and I'm thinking this

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<v Speaker 2>is dead serious. Paulson is fair haired, glasses composed, an

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<v Speaker 2>intellectual author of serious books on the US Constitution. When

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<v Speaker 2>we met, he was a visiting scholar at Princeton University

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<v Speaker 2>hold up in one of those gorgeous old mansions on

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<v Speaker 2>the outskirts of campus. But don't get the wrong impression.

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<v Speaker 2>There's also something subversive about the man, a certain look

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<v Speaker 2>in his eye. He's someone who likes to make mischief,

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<v Speaker 2>like on page six hundred and eighteen of the journal

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<v Speaker 2>containing his law review article, when he briefly addresses the

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<v Speaker 2>question of why he has just spent tens of thousands

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<v Speaker 2>of words descending down this particular rabbit hole, and his answer,

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<v Speaker 2>because it's there, I don't know about you. That makes

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<v Speaker 2>me nervous. There was a part of me that just

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<v Speaker 2>wanted to walk out of his office and not say

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<v Speaker 2>another word to anyone one. Let's sleeping dogs, lie, I'm

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<v Speaker 2>running a podcast here, not starting a revolution. You're not Jewish,

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<v Speaker 2>are you? Because let's say we could do a none

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<v Speaker 2>of us are Jewish. What we can do? What do

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<v Speaker 2>they call it? A mid rash? Is that what they

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<v Speaker 2>call a mid Yes? Right, let's let's do a little

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<v Speaker 2>bit of a midrash on Let's start with it. Start

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<v Speaker 2>with Article four, Section three, and go th So I

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<v Speaker 2>guess we're trying to answer the question of of why

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<v Speaker 2>it is the case that that this article on its face,

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<v Speaker 2>Section three, on its face does not prohibit subdivision. That's right,

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<v Speaker 2>that's the issue at hand, right right. So let's I'll

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<v Speaker 2>have you if you read it and then us break

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<v Speaker 2>it down grammatically.

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<v Speaker 3>Let's do the I'll do in dramatic reading. New states

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<v Speaker 3>may be admitted by the Congress into this Union semi.

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<v Speaker 2>Coleman Paulson carries a small copy of the US Constitution

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<v Speaker 2>in his jacket pocket. This is what he's reading from.

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<v Speaker 3>It's first clause. New states maybe admitted, you know, some

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<v Speaker 3>powered tomit new states. But no new state may shall

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<v Speaker 3>be formed or erected within the jurisdiction of any other

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<v Speaker 3>state semi.

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<v Speaker 2>Colon the second semi colin pay special attention.

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<v Speaker 3>Nor any state be formed by the junction of two

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<v Speaker 3>or more states or parts of states, without the consent

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<v Speaker 3>of the legislatures of the states concerned, as well as

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<v Speaker 3>of the Congress.

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<v Speaker 2>Where you left at some comments I left out.

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<v Speaker 3>I didn't read all the comments. Yeah, okay, let me

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<v Speaker 3>let me do it again.

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<v Speaker 2>Outrageous for you that I've read so much about the

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<v Speaker 2>grammar to leave out.

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<v Speaker 3>A common Okay, new states may be admitted by the

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<v Speaker 3>Congress into this Union semi colon, but no new state

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<v Speaker 3>shall be formed or erected within the jurisdiction of any

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<v Speaker 3>other state second semi nor any state be formed by

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<v Speaker 3>the junction of two or more states comma or parts

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<v Speaker 3>of states comma, without the consent of the legislatures of

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<v Speaker 3>the states concerned, as well as of the Congress period.

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<v Speaker 3>That's the whole precussion.

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<v Speaker 2>So question one, as I understand it from reading you,

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<v Speaker 2>is what is the sense of the second semicole?

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<v Speaker 4>Right?

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<v Speaker 2>This is about to get very serious, I promise. Right

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<v Speaker 2>across the Texas border. In Ardmore, Oklahoma, there is a

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<v Speaker 2>quality in on West Broadway Street, two stories courtyard, Big Pool.

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<v Speaker 2>It used to be a holiday inn until a few

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<v Speaker 2>years ago. Just to be clear, the Ardmore holiday slash

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<v Speaker 2>quality in has nothing to do with Michael Paulson's law

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<v Speaker 2>review paper, not directly anyway. It's context. You have to

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<v Speaker 2>know about Ardmore if you want to understand where Paulson's

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<v Speaker 2>argument begins. The very first line of his article, in fact,

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<v Speaker 2>which is, and I'm quoting Texas Republicans have been thinking

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<v Speaker 2>way too small, that's way with five a's. It's the

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<v Speaker 2>early two thousands. Results from the national census are in,

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<v Speaker 2>which means state legislatures around the country are redrawing the

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<v Speaker 2>boundaries of congressional districts based on the new population numbers.

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<v Speaker 2>It's a ritual power struggle that happens in America every

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<v Speaker 2>ten years. In Texas, the legislature is controlled by Republicans.

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<v Speaker 2>They want to redraw the congressional map so Democrats get

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<v Speaker 2>fewer seats, but it doesn't work. Even with the new borders,

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<v Speaker 2>the Democrats hold on to their seats. So in two

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<v Speaker 2>thousand and three, the Texas Republicans introduce a bill to

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<v Speaker 2>draw the boundaries all over again, and the Democrats are furious.

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<v Speaker 2>If you can keep redrawing the boundaries of electoral districts

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<v Speaker 2>over and over until you put your opponent out of business,

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<v Speaker 2>then you're not really in a democracy, are you. The

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<v Speaker 2>organizer of the revolt was Jim Dunham. He's now a

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<v Speaker 2>lawyer in Waco. Back in two thousand and three, he

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<v Speaker 2>was chairman of the state House Democratic Caucus.

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<v Speaker 4>I had members coming up to me and say, you know, Jim,

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<v Speaker 4>you got to do something right, And I was like, well,

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<v Speaker 4>what are we going to do?

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<v Speaker 1>So I will can bust a quorum.

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<v Speaker 2>There are one hundred and fifty legislators in the Texas Assembly.

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<v Speaker 2>Quorum is one hundred. If Dunham can get fifty one

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<v Speaker 2>Democrats not to show up, the vote can't happen.

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<v Speaker 4>Well, the bill was coming up on a Monday, and

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<v Speaker 4>I think it was the preceding Wednesday that I had

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<v Speaker 4>in the first meeting, and I'll tell you, I thought

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<v Speaker 4>I was totally wasting my time.

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<v Speaker 1>I told everybody, this is foolish. Nobody's going to do this.

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<v Speaker 4>It's because you had to go across state lines because

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<v Speaker 4>the Speaker of the House has the authority to issue

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<v Speaker 4>arrest warrants and if you're in Texas, they can grab you. Now,

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<v Speaker 4>if you're outside of Texas, that then you know it

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<v Speaker 4>doesn't have jurisdiction.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh, I see, that's why you had to go to Oklahoma.

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<v Speaker 5>Yeah.

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<v Speaker 4>Actually, you have my arrest warrant on my wall. It's

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<v Speaker 4>it's pretty cool and it says, go you were directed

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<v Speaker 4>to go arrest and detain Jim Dunham and bring him.

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<v Speaker 1>To the Texas House.

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<v Speaker 2>So when'd you guys leave?

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<v Speaker 1>Left on Mother's Day Sunday?

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<v Speaker 4>And you know, about Thursday, when I figured out we're

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<v Speaker 4>going to actually get enough people to pull this off,

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<v Speaker 4>I was like, good Lord, where we're.

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<v Speaker 1>Going to go? You know? And I will tell you.

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<v Speaker 1>I had some members say, well, let's go to like Charles.

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<v Speaker 4>Louisiana or Shreeport, Louisiana. And I said, well, we're not

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<v Speaker 4>going to go there because the casinos there, and in

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<v Speaker 4>no way we'll keep the Democrats out of the casinos

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<v Speaker 4>if we're in Shreeport.

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<v Speaker 1>And I'm serious, you know.

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<v Speaker 4>And so my wife's family is Marmore, Oklahoma, and God

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<v Speaker 4>love Ardmore, but there's nothing to do in Ardmore.

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<v Speaker 2>Dunham Hire's buses gets everyone to meet at a hotel

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<v Speaker 2>in Austin, does a head count fifty plus himself, doesn't

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<v Speaker 2>tell anyone where they're headed or when they're coming back.

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<v Speaker 2>Need to know basis only. It's an undercover operation. It

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<v Speaker 2>comes and when the Republicans are ready for their triumphant vote,

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<v Speaker 2>they suddenly realize that they don't have a quorum. They

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<v Speaker 2>launch a manhunt for the missing Democrats. Texas Congressman Tom

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<v Speaker 2>Delay gets involved. He's the House Majority leader in Washington

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<v Speaker 2>at the.

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<v Speaker 4>Time, one of the members showed up in a plane

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<v Speaker 4>and delay evidently called Homeland Security and reported the tail

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<v Speaker 4>number was missing, and in an effort to figure out

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<v Speaker 4>where that plane had gone, and it was I don't

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<v Speaker 4>know what to say, but Homeland Security couldn't find us.

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<v Speaker 1>But the Dallas Morning News good.

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<v Speaker 2>To recap. The Texas Republicans want to increase their numbers

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<v Speaker 2>and influence in Washington, so they try a jerrymander, then

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<v Speaker 2>when it fails, do a re gerrymander in violation of

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<v Speaker 2>every state norm, leading to a full scale state constitutional crisis,

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<v Speaker 2>causing the states Democratic caucused to flee in buses to

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<v Speaker 2>a holiday and in Oklahoma, leading to a statewide manhunt,

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<v Speaker 2>convincing the House Majority leader to call in Homeland Security,

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<v Speaker 2>triggering an international media frenzy.

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<v Speaker 6>What is the situation like in ard More for the

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<v Speaker 6>Texas Democrats right now?

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<v Speaker 7>John, Here at the holiday inn, I've been witnessed to

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<v Speaker 7>a courageous scene of defiance. Texas Democratic legislators hunkered down,

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<v Speaker 7>trying to conduct the people's business while subsisting only on

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<v Speaker 7>the contents of their mini bars.

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<v Speaker 8>Homeland Security officials attempting to find some missing state legislators

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<v Speaker 8>who hung out at the Holiday Inn for a couple

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<v Speaker 8>of days. You know, we got a lot of deserters

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<v Speaker 8>down there, guys that are afraid to stand and fight

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<v Speaker 8>like our arm services do.

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<v Speaker 6>The legislative process was so broken that they had to

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<v Speaker 6>leave for Ardmore.

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<v Speaker 8>Thank god we didn't have those democrats at the Alamo.

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<v Speaker 8>God bless you.

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<v Speaker 4>I will tell you, probably most of the time was

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<v Speaker 4>dealing with the ten or eleven satellite news trucks that

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<v Speaker 4>showed up after a dire or two.

0:13:14.036 --> 0:13:18.356
<v Speaker 2>And who's watching all of this? Michael Paulson and Vasan Casavon,

0:13:18.876 --> 0:13:20.956
<v Speaker 2>authors of the Law Review article that found its way

0:13:20.996 --> 0:13:24.316
<v Speaker 2>to my inbox. They're working on their article as the

0:13:24.396 --> 0:13:27.556
<v Speaker 2>drama unfolds in Ardmore, and they look at everything that's

0:13:27.556 --> 0:13:34.076
<v Speaker 2>happening norm violation, constitutional crisis, Ardmore, Holiday in homeland security,

0:13:34.276 --> 0:13:39.356
<v Speaker 2>media frenzy, and their conclusion is Texas Republicans have been

0:13:39.396 --> 0:13:52.836
<v Speaker 2>thinking way too small. Michael Stokes. Paulson's argument is about Texas,

0:13:53.436 --> 0:13:57.716
<v Speaker 2>but it's also more significantly about grammar. His Law Review

0:13:57.796 --> 0:14:00.156
<v Speaker 2>article spends far more time on grammar in fact than

0:14:00.196 --> 0:14:04.556
<v Speaker 2>on anything else. Specifically, the grammar of the US Constitution,

0:14:08.156 --> 0:14:11.796
<v Speaker 2>so much so that immediately after I visited Paulson at Princeton,

0:14:12.236 --> 0:14:15.796
<v Speaker 2>I realized that I needed an emergency session with Mary Norris,

0:14:16.516 --> 0:14:20.556
<v Speaker 2>author of the brilliant book Between You and Me, Confessions

0:14:20.756 --> 0:14:21.556
<v Speaker 2>of a Common Queen.

0:14:21.916 --> 0:14:28.036
<v Speaker 5>I wonder, lookie, I have a fresher racer.

0:14:28.116 --> 0:14:28.316
<v Speaker 1>Here.

0:14:29.476 --> 0:14:34.396
<v Speaker 2>We're in Mary's Manhattan apartment. Books everywhere, creaky hardwood floors.

0:14:35.876 --> 0:14:38.276
<v Speaker 2>I've known Mary for years. We worked together at The

0:14:38.316 --> 0:14:40.916
<v Speaker 2>New Yorker. The New Yorker is a good cop bad

0:14:40.956 --> 0:14:46.156
<v Speaker 2>cop operation. The good cops are the editors. They coddle, courage, soothe,

0:14:46.796 --> 0:14:49.876
<v Speaker 2>let you go on and on. The bad cops are

0:14:49.876 --> 0:14:53.476
<v Speaker 2>the copy department. For most of my time there, the

0:14:53.516 --> 0:14:56.956
<v Speaker 2>copy department was a murderer's row of three women. First

0:14:57.036 --> 0:15:00.396
<v Speaker 2>was Anne, who was a national caliber marathoner who gave

0:15:00.436 --> 0:15:03.796
<v Speaker 2>the impression that in any disagreement she would simply outlast you.

0:15:04.636 --> 0:15:07.836
<v Speaker 2>The second Carol, who reminded me of the proper West

0:15:07.836 --> 0:15:10.636
<v Speaker 2>Indian ladies I grew up with, who could silence you

0:15:10.676 --> 0:15:15.076
<v Speaker 2>with a disapproving glance. The third was marry If Mister

0:15:15.156 --> 0:15:18.396
<v Speaker 2>and Missus Santa Claus had an irrepressible youngest daughter, it

0:15:18.436 --> 0:15:24.716
<v Speaker 2>would be marry. I have written down here three sentences

0:15:25.596 --> 0:15:28.476
<v Speaker 2>from the Constitution. I just want to introduce listeners to

0:15:28.516 --> 0:15:31.876
<v Speaker 2>the proposition that frist of all, that punctuation in particular

0:15:31.956 --> 0:15:35.996
<v Speaker 2>really matters on a document like the Constitution. And two

0:15:36.076 --> 0:15:39.716
<v Speaker 2>they were a little bit sloppy with their comments and

0:15:39.716 --> 0:15:43.036
<v Speaker 2>seven caltons at times. We're sitting at Mary's kitchen table,

0:15:43.756 --> 0:15:46.716
<v Speaker 2>a handle a sheet of paper with my constitutional selections

0:15:46.756 --> 0:15:49.876
<v Speaker 2>on it. She takes out a black number two pencil sharp.

0:15:50.556 --> 0:15:53.636
<v Speaker 2>We start with the sentence that has driven Grammarians crazy

0:15:53.876 --> 0:15:56.396
<v Speaker 2>for two hundred and fifty years, the second.

0:15:56.156 --> 0:16:00.076
<v Speaker 5>Amendment, A well regulated militia being necessary to the security

0:16:00.116 --> 0:16:01.956
<v Speaker 5>of a free state, the right of the people to

0:16:02.116 --> 0:16:05.996
<v Speaker 5>keep and bare arms shall not be infringed.

0:16:07.276 --> 0:16:11.796
<v Speaker 2>A well regulated militia comma being necessary to the security

0:16:11.876 --> 0:16:15.156
<v Speaker 2>of a free state Comma the right of the people

0:16:15.196 --> 0:16:20.116
<v Speaker 2>to keep in bear arms comma shall not be infringed. Well,

0:16:20.116 --> 0:16:24.236
<v Speaker 2>first of all, that comma is wrong before shall so yeah,

0:16:24.276 --> 0:16:29.116
<v Speaker 2>they should be. That's the that's the third comma, right, Yes,

0:16:29.996 --> 0:16:31.676
<v Speaker 2>the other two commas that you're fine.

0:16:31.396 --> 0:16:37.476
<v Speaker 5>With, well, no, they don't make sense either. Because with

0:16:37.636 --> 0:16:41.996
<v Speaker 5>the two commas, the sentence in its essence would read

0:16:42.156 --> 0:16:45.476
<v Speaker 5>well regulated militia the right of the people to keep

0:16:45.476 --> 0:16:48.196
<v Speaker 5>in bear arms shall not be infringed, which doesn't make

0:16:48.236 --> 0:16:48.796
<v Speaker 5>any sense.

0:16:49.276 --> 0:16:52.276
<v Speaker 2>It's like they loaded a shotgun with commas and fired

0:16:52.316 --> 0:16:54.356
<v Speaker 2>it at the second Amendment. It's a mess.

0:16:55.116 --> 0:17:01.196
<v Speaker 5>So a well regulated militia being necessary to the security

0:17:01.476 --> 0:17:05.876
<v Speaker 5>of a free state, comma comma, the right of the

0:17:05.876 --> 0:17:09.076
<v Speaker 5>people to keep and bear arms shall not be in fringe.

0:17:09.796 --> 0:17:12.196
<v Speaker 5>That I would lose two of those comments.

0:17:13.076 --> 0:17:15.276
<v Speaker 2>Mary had covered up the two other sentences on my

0:17:15.356 --> 0:17:18.076
<v Speaker 2>list with the legal pad. She moved the legal pad

0:17:18.116 --> 0:17:20.996
<v Speaker 2>down just enough to expose sentence number two.

0:17:21.436 --> 0:17:23.596
<v Speaker 5>The right of Citizens of the United States who are

0:17:23.676 --> 0:17:25.796
<v Speaker 5>eighteen years of age or older to vote shall not

0:17:25.836 --> 0:17:29.076
<v Speaker 5>be denied or abridged by the United States or by

0:17:29.116 --> 0:17:31.996
<v Speaker 5>any State on account of age.

0:17:32.556 --> 0:17:36.356
<v Speaker 2>Twenty sixth Amendment the United States Constitution. It's a terrible sentence.

0:17:36.476 --> 0:17:37.356
<v Speaker 6>Oh, it's terrible.

0:17:37.436 --> 0:17:40.316
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, So what if you rewrite that sentence from me?

0:17:42.036 --> 0:17:44.756
<v Speaker 2>Mary has her pencil out. She's marking up the piece

0:17:44.756 --> 0:17:47.756
<v Speaker 2>of paper like a New Yorker galley, covering the page

0:17:47.796 --> 0:17:49.756
<v Speaker 2>with graceful number two pencil lines.

0:17:50.556 --> 0:17:56.676
<v Speaker 5>The right of citizens who are eighteen years of age

0:17:56.876 --> 0:18:01.956
<v Speaker 5>or older to vote. That's it. You should just say

0:18:01.956 --> 0:18:05.836
<v Speaker 5>they're right of the United States citizens who are eighteen

0:18:05.876 --> 0:18:06.476
<v Speaker 5>years of age?

0:18:06.476 --> 0:18:10.796
<v Speaker 2>No call to vote. No call, because by having no commas,

0:18:11.876 --> 0:18:16.116
<v Speaker 2>what it turns into is a defining clause. By putting

0:18:16.116 --> 0:18:18.236
<v Speaker 2>commas around it, it becomes a descriptive clause.

0:18:18.316 --> 0:18:18.756
<v Speaker 4>That's right.

0:18:20.996 --> 0:18:25.036
<v Speaker 2>A defining clause in grammatical terms is a clause necessary

0:18:25.076 --> 0:18:27.556
<v Speaker 2>for the meaning of a sentence. The house where I

0:18:27.596 --> 0:18:30.036
<v Speaker 2>live is on fire. You don't put commas around the

0:18:30.036 --> 0:18:32.796
<v Speaker 2>phrase where I live because the fact that it's my

0:18:32.956 --> 0:18:35.636
<v Speaker 2>house is essential for understanding what I'm trying to say.

0:18:35.876 --> 0:18:38.476
<v Speaker 2>The house where I live is on fire. But in

0:18:38.516 --> 0:18:41.796
<v Speaker 2>the sentence the house comma built in nineteen seventy eight,

0:18:41.876 --> 0:18:44.836
<v Speaker 2>comma is on fire. We put commas around the phrase

0:18:45.156 --> 0:18:48.156
<v Speaker 2>built in nineteen seventy eight to mark it as descriptive.

0:18:48.676 --> 0:18:51.356
<v Speaker 2>It's not necessary for the meaning of the sentence, but

0:18:51.396 --> 0:18:54.916
<v Speaker 2>it helps us understand more about the house. So the

0:18:54.956 --> 0:18:58.556
<v Speaker 2>twenty sixth Amendment has commas around the clause who are

0:18:58.636 --> 0:19:00.556
<v Speaker 2>eighteen years of age or older?

0:19:01.916 --> 0:19:02.596
<v Speaker 1>Big mistake.

0:19:05.436 --> 0:19:06.596
<v Speaker 5>When was this one written?

0:19:07.076 --> 0:19:10.556
<v Speaker 2>Well, it was past in modern times.

0:19:10.836 --> 0:19:15.596
<v Speaker 5>Yeah, that's what I thought. But rus reads as if

0:19:16.196 --> 0:19:19.316
<v Speaker 5>all the citizens of the United States are eighteen years

0:19:19.636 --> 0:19:20.556
<v Speaker 5>of age or older.

0:19:22.236 --> 0:19:25.676
<v Speaker 2>American citizens are people either born here or who have

0:19:25.796 --> 0:19:29.516
<v Speaker 2>been granted citizenship, And what the twenty sixth Amendment means

0:19:29.556 --> 0:19:32.796
<v Speaker 2>to say is that a subset of that group, those

0:19:32.876 --> 0:19:35.436
<v Speaker 2>who are over the age of eighteen, have the right

0:19:35.476 --> 0:19:39.276
<v Speaker 2>to vote. But the authors of the twenty sixth Amendment

0:19:39.436 --> 0:19:44.676
<v Speaker 2>used commas interpreted grammatically, the twenty sixth Amendment says that

0:19:44.716 --> 0:19:48.956
<v Speaker 2>a citizen of the United States is anyone over eighteen anyone.

0:19:49.716 --> 0:19:52.596
<v Speaker 2>Canadians who crossed the border into Detroit to by gas

0:19:52.676 --> 0:19:55.876
<v Speaker 2>are citizens so long as they're over eighteen. Russians who

0:19:55.916 --> 0:19:59.076
<v Speaker 2>go apartment shopping in Miami with Duffel bags full of

0:19:59.076 --> 0:20:01.756
<v Speaker 2>cash are citizens so long as they're over eighteen.

0:20:02.476 --> 0:20:06.636
<v Speaker 5>Good Lord, clarity is of the utmost importance in a

0:20:06.716 --> 0:20:12.276
<v Speaker 5>legal document, right. I don't think lawyers have special rules

0:20:12.276 --> 0:20:16.476
<v Speaker 5>about semi colon's. I also don't know if there's such

0:20:16.476 --> 0:20:20.676
<v Speaker 5>a thing as a legal grammarian, but there probably should be.

0:20:20.756 --> 0:20:24.356
<v Speaker 5>You know, a US grammarian to take care of these things.

0:20:24.796 --> 0:20:26.116
<v Speaker 5>You should not volunteering.

0:20:26.156 --> 0:20:28.596
<v Speaker 2>Why you would be the perfect person to be the

0:20:28.716 --> 0:20:29.676
<v Speaker 2>grammarian in chief.

0:20:29.956 --> 0:20:32.076
<v Speaker 5>Only if I could wear one of those wigs.

0:20:34.836 --> 0:20:37.756
<v Speaker 2>And now we turn to the constitutional sentence at the

0:20:37.756 --> 0:20:40.556
<v Speaker 2>bottom of the page, the one I really care about,

0:20:40.956 --> 0:20:44.556
<v Speaker 2>the one that explains why Texans have been thinking way

0:20:44.636 --> 0:20:47.836
<v Speaker 2>too small, the big one.

0:20:48.356 --> 0:20:51.836
<v Speaker 5>New states may be admitted by the Congress into this

0:20:52.036 --> 0:20:56.716
<v Speaker 5>Union semi colon, But no new state shall be formed

0:20:56.796 --> 0:21:01.036
<v Speaker 5>or erected within the jurisdiction of any other state, nor

0:21:01.116 --> 0:21:03.236
<v Speaker 5>any state to be formed by the junction of two

0:21:03.356 --> 0:21:06.356
<v Speaker 5>or more states are parts of state without the consent

0:21:06.476 --> 0:21:12.916
<v Speaker 5>of the legislatures of the states concerned as well the Congress. Well,

0:21:12.956 --> 0:21:16.636
<v Speaker 5>that seems clear to me. You can't form any new

0:21:16.676 --> 0:21:21.396
<v Speaker 5>states without everybody agreeing that the new states can be formed.

0:21:22.356 --> 0:21:30.796
<v Speaker 2>I repeat, not a shaggy dog story. Michael Paulson first

0:21:30.836 --> 0:21:33.756
<v Speaker 2>became drawn to Article four, Section three of the US

0:21:33.876 --> 0:21:37.276
<v Speaker 2>Constitution when he was teaching a class at the University

0:21:37.316 --> 0:21:41.116
<v Speaker 2>of Minnesota Law School on the Civil War. The question

0:21:41.156 --> 0:21:44.596
<v Speaker 2>of West Virginia came up. As you may remember, Virginia

0:21:44.756 --> 0:21:47.596
<v Speaker 2>was a Confederate state during the Civil War, but a

0:21:47.676 --> 0:21:50.996
<v Speaker 2>number of counties in one corner of Virginia were anti slavery,

0:21:51.356 --> 0:21:54.956
<v Speaker 2>so they broke away and formed West Virginia, which was

0:21:55.036 --> 0:22:00.116
<v Speaker 2>admitted into the Union in eighteen sixty three. The question

0:22:00.156 --> 0:22:04.556
<v Speaker 2>Paulson had for his students was was that constitutional can

0:22:04.636 --> 0:22:06.756
<v Speaker 2>a new state be formed from a piece of an

0:22:06.796 --> 0:22:12.636
<v Speaker 2>existing state? What a trivial question? And Article four, section

0:22:12.716 --> 0:22:17.436
<v Speaker 2>three is the part of the Constitution that addresses this issue.

0:22:17.516 --> 0:22:20.396
<v Speaker 2>It was written in seventeen eighty seven. As with the

0:22:20.436 --> 0:22:23.516
<v Speaker 2>Second Amendment and the twenty sixth Amendment. However, it is

0:22:23.676 --> 0:22:28.596
<v Speaker 2>grammatically ambiguous, and as a result, it's precisely the kind

0:22:28.596 --> 0:22:31.916
<v Speaker 2>of matter that appeals to the baroque legal tastes of

0:22:31.996 --> 0:22:36.116
<v Speaker 2>Michael Stokes Pulsary. He gets together with the son Casavon.

0:22:36.636 --> 0:22:39.636
<v Speaker 2>They happily disappear down the Article four Section three rabbit

0:22:39.676 --> 0:22:42.836
<v Speaker 2>hole for god knows how long, and they emerge with

0:22:42.916 --> 0:22:46.596
<v Speaker 2>an exhaustive analysis of the question published in Volume ninety,

0:22:46.956 --> 0:22:50.956
<v Speaker 2>issue two of the California Law Review, pages two ninety

0:22:50.996 --> 0:22:54.236
<v Speaker 2>one to four hundred. This is not the Law Review

0:22:54.276 --> 0:22:56.276
<v Speaker 2>article that landed in my inbox and blew my mind.

0:22:56.876 --> 0:23:01.156
<v Speaker 2>It's the precursor the compulsory figures, if you will, before

0:23:01.196 --> 0:23:01.836
<v Speaker 2>the free skate.

0:23:03.836 --> 0:23:07.956
<v Speaker 3>Now there is this language, but no new state shall

0:23:07.996 --> 0:23:10.636
<v Speaker 3>be formed or erected within the jurisdiction of any other

0:23:10.716 --> 0:23:15.876
<v Speaker 3>state semichel. You could read that if it were just

0:23:15.996 --> 0:23:20.316
<v Speaker 3>that as a flat prohibition on carving out a news

0:23:20.316 --> 0:23:22.116
<v Speaker 3>state from within an existing state.

0:23:22.196 --> 0:23:23.876
<v Speaker 2>If it stops there, If it had stopped there and

0:23:23.916 --> 0:23:26.516
<v Speaker 2>there was nothing that came after, we have no arguments here.

0:23:26.956 --> 0:23:29.716
<v Speaker 2>No new state shall be formed or erected within the

0:23:29.796 --> 0:23:33.316
<v Speaker 2>jurisdiction of any other state. No ambiguity there.

0:23:33.876 --> 0:23:35.476
<v Speaker 3>Right, it would say, you can't do.

0:23:35.436 --> 0:23:38.316
<v Speaker 2>It, you can't, so West Yugrainia would not be right legitimate.

0:23:38.796 --> 0:23:42.076
<v Speaker 3>But then it goes on after the semi colon. And

0:23:42.516 --> 0:23:45.716
<v Speaker 3>this real question is is that semi colon more like

0:23:45.796 --> 0:23:49.556
<v Speaker 3>a period that ends one prohibition and then another prohibition

0:23:49.796 --> 0:23:52.476
<v Speaker 3>picks up, or is it more like a pause, Is

0:23:52.516 --> 0:23:55.676
<v Speaker 3>it more like a comma. After that semi colon, it

0:23:55.716 --> 0:23:58.996
<v Speaker 3>goes on to talk about well, let me read it again.

0:23:59.156 --> 0:24:02.156
<v Speaker 3>Nor any state be formed by the junction of two

0:24:02.236 --> 0:24:05.116
<v Speaker 3>or more states or parts of states without the consent

0:24:05.196 --> 0:24:08.276
<v Speaker 3>of the legislatures of the states concerned, as well as

0:24:08.316 --> 0:24:09.036
<v Speaker 3>of the Congress.

0:24:09.796 --> 0:24:13.836
<v Speaker 2>Article four, Section three would be crystal clear if the

0:24:13.916 --> 0:24:16.596
<v Speaker 2>founders had used a period in the middle of it.

0:24:17.356 --> 0:24:21.236
<v Speaker 2>A period would mean you can't subdivide a state. Ever,

0:24:22.196 --> 0:24:25.316
<v Speaker 2>on the other hand. If you want to combine two states,

0:24:25.476 --> 0:24:29.396
<v Speaker 2>you can, so long as everyone consents, And it would

0:24:29.436 --> 0:24:32.916
<v Speaker 2>be equally clear if they had used a comma. A

0:24:32.996 --> 0:24:36.876
<v Speaker 2>comma would mean that the consent provision applies to everything.

0:24:37.436 --> 0:24:40.676
<v Speaker 2>Both subdividing and combining are legal so long as Congress

0:24:40.716 --> 0:24:43.436
<v Speaker 2>signs off on it. But they don't use a period

0:24:43.636 --> 0:24:47.796
<v Speaker 2>or a comma. They make a punctuation decision guaranteed to

0:24:47.876 --> 0:24:54.836
<v Speaker 2>tie generations of constitutional scholars in knots. They choose a semicone.

0:24:54.836 --> 0:24:58.436
<v Speaker 3>When it says, without the consent of the legislatures of

0:24:58.476 --> 0:25:01.356
<v Speaker 3>the states concerned as well as of the Congress, does

0:25:01.396 --> 0:25:07.516
<v Speaker 3>the consent qualification apply also to carving a small state

0:25:07.556 --> 0:25:10.636
<v Speaker 3>out of an existing new state? And it all turns

0:25:10.676 --> 0:25:13.716
<v Speaker 3>on whether the semi colon is read as a full

0:25:13.756 --> 0:25:18.596
<v Speaker 3>stop separate prohibition or is just one in a series

0:25:18.636 --> 0:25:20.716
<v Speaker 3>of things to which consents can be given.

0:25:22.196 --> 0:25:25.036
<v Speaker 2>Does the Constitution say you cannot break off a piece

0:25:25.076 --> 0:25:28.476
<v Speaker 2>of an existing state ever, or does it say you

0:25:28.596 --> 0:25:34.036
<v Speaker 2>can so long as Congress says okay. Paulson and Casavon

0:25:34.236 --> 0:25:37.796
<v Speaker 2>spend ninety pages on this question in their California Law

0:25:37.836 --> 0:25:42.036
<v Speaker 2>Review article ninety pages, and it's riveting reading because the

0:25:42.076 --> 0:25:46.116
<v Speaker 2>whole time you're thinking, good lord, West Virginia is hanging

0:25:46.196 --> 0:25:52.316
<v Speaker 2>in the balance. If that semi colon from seventeen eighty

0:25:52.316 --> 0:25:54.876
<v Speaker 2>seven is meant as a full stop, then someone has

0:25:54.876 --> 0:25:56.876
<v Speaker 2>to go down to the State House in Charleston and

0:25:56.916 --> 0:26:00.036
<v Speaker 2>break the news to everyone there that the party's over.

0:26:03.076 --> 0:26:06.996
<v Speaker 2>Paulson and Cassavon comb through earlier drafts of that clause,

0:26:07.556 --> 0:26:11.116
<v Speaker 2>the legislative history of the Constitution, the records of the framers,

0:26:11.636 --> 0:26:18.836
<v Speaker 2>and they conclude West Virginia is constitutional. Everyone involved the

0:26:19.156 --> 0:26:22.156
<v Speaker 2>sign off. That's their concern, right. So once you so,

0:26:22.676 --> 0:26:26.196
<v Speaker 2>in other words, that makes it quite clear that the

0:26:26.316 --> 0:26:30.676
<v Speaker 2>last clause modifies everything.

0:26:30.756 --> 0:26:31.196
<v Speaker 1>Everything.

0:26:31.396 --> 0:26:35.516
<v Speaker 2>Yes, But once it's clear that the last clause modifies everything,

0:26:35.956 --> 0:26:39.116
<v Speaker 2>then the semi colon cannot be functioning as a period.

0:26:39.356 --> 0:26:39.996
<v Speaker 3>It cannot be.

0:26:42.956 --> 0:26:45.116
<v Speaker 2>Forgive me if I'm going on and on about this,

0:26:45.956 --> 0:26:51.276
<v Speaker 2>but everything depends on this interpretation of Article four, Section three.

0:26:51.396 --> 0:26:54.316
<v Speaker 2>For years, people have been dismissing the implications of that

0:26:54.396 --> 0:27:01.476
<v Speaker 2>sentence because they've assumed that it's ambiguous. It is not ambiguous.

0:27:03.476 --> 0:27:06.956
<v Speaker 2>And here's what clinched it for me. Mary Norris, the

0:27:07.036 --> 0:27:08.676
<v Speaker 2>comic Queen, agrees.

0:27:09.796 --> 0:27:14.236
<v Speaker 5>Okay, well, I think that hinges on this nor. In

0:27:14.236 --> 0:27:19.916
<v Speaker 5>spite of the semi colon, the nor connects this to

0:27:19.956 --> 0:27:21.116
<v Speaker 5>the butt. To the butt.

0:27:22.156 --> 0:27:26.716
<v Speaker 2>The Constitution says, but no new state shall be formed

0:27:26.836 --> 0:27:30.836
<v Speaker 2>or erected within the jurisdiction of any other state semi colon,

0:27:31.516 --> 0:27:36.996
<v Speaker 2>nor any state be formed dot dot dot. I've read many, many,

0:27:36.996 --> 0:27:39.756
<v Speaker 2>many commentaries on this. You're the first person to talk

0:27:39.796 --> 0:27:43.196
<v Speaker 2>about this butt nor being significant.

0:27:44.316 --> 0:27:47.316
<v Speaker 5>Well, you don't have a nor unless you're referring to

0:27:47.356 --> 0:27:52.236
<v Speaker 5>something before it. You know, neither nor nor. One of

0:27:52.236 --> 0:27:56.796
<v Speaker 5>the things that copy editors look for is a nor

0:27:56.876 --> 0:27:57.556
<v Speaker 5>standing alone.

0:27:57.596 --> 0:27:58.756
<v Speaker 6>It doesn't make any sense.

0:27:59.476 --> 0:28:02.036
<v Speaker 5>We try not to let sentences begin with nor. We

0:28:02.116 --> 0:28:04.276
<v Speaker 5>try not to have a nor where there's not a neither,

0:28:07.796 --> 0:28:10.036
<v Speaker 5>So that nor has to can to something, And I

0:28:10.076 --> 0:28:14.436
<v Speaker 5>think it connects to the butt, so I think they're related.

0:28:17.396 --> 0:28:20.996
<v Speaker 2>There in Mary's apartment, I had a flashback to the

0:28:21.036 --> 0:28:23.556
<v Speaker 2>final round of editing of The New Yorker, something I've

0:28:23.596 --> 0:28:27.036
<v Speaker 2>done many times. You're sitting in a room, you you're

0:28:27.036 --> 0:28:30.996
<v Speaker 2>good cop editor, and Carol Ann or Mary going through

0:28:30.996 --> 0:28:35.636
<v Speaker 2>your piece line by line, peeling away everything superfluous and confusing,

0:28:36.396 --> 0:28:39.916
<v Speaker 2>truly formidable intellect devoted to making words mean what they're

0:28:39.956 --> 0:28:43.116
<v Speaker 2>supposed to mean. If you've never had someone do that

0:28:43.196 --> 0:28:46.276
<v Speaker 2>for your words, you haven't written. But you're saying if

0:28:46.276 --> 0:28:49.876
<v Speaker 2>I have a bot nor construction. If I say I

0:28:49.996 --> 0:28:54.956
<v Speaker 2>like all kinds of animals, but I don't like horses,

0:28:56.556 --> 0:29:04.316
<v Speaker 2>and nor do I like dogs because they smell? Is

0:29:04.436 --> 0:29:06.556
<v Speaker 2>because they smell modifying horses and dogs?

0:29:10.836 --> 0:29:13.476
<v Speaker 5>I think so, Yes, I think the North Connecto.

0:29:14.036 --> 0:29:18.916
<v Speaker 2>Yes, that's crucial. Mary, you are you have entered into

0:29:20.036 --> 0:29:26.036
<v Speaker 2>a hugely significant constitutional today, which brings us to the

0:29:26.076 --> 0:29:28.996
<v Speaker 2>second case of on puls and paper. That's the one

0:29:28.996 --> 0:29:32.956
<v Speaker 2>my friend sent me. Texas Law Review, Volume eighty two,

0:29:33.076 --> 0:29:38.236
<v Speaker 2>the necessary and far more consequential companion to their constitutional

0:29:38.276 --> 0:29:44.516
<v Speaker 2>exoneration of West Virginia. The articles called Let's mess with Texas.

0:29:45.276 --> 0:29:48.756
<v Speaker 2>It begins with a quotation from the congressional resolution under

0:29:48.796 --> 0:29:51.996
<v Speaker 2>which Texas was admitted to the Union in eighteen forty five.

0:29:52.756 --> 0:29:57.636
<v Speaker 2>The relevant passage goes like this, new states of convenient

0:29:57.756 --> 0:30:02.436
<v Speaker 2>size not exceeding four in number, in addition to said

0:30:02.516 --> 0:30:07.996
<v Speaker 2>State of Texas, and having sufficient population, may hereafter, by

0:30:08.036 --> 0:30:11.516
<v Speaker 2>the consent of said state, be formed out of the

0:30:11.636 --> 0:30:18.876
<v Speaker 2>territory thereof. Congress gave Texas permission to form another four

0:30:19.036 --> 0:30:23.116
<v Speaker 2>states within its borders, which makes sense. Texas was an

0:30:23.156 --> 0:30:25.476
<v Speaker 2>independent country at the time it joined the Union, and

0:30:25.516 --> 0:30:28.596
<v Speaker 2>a very big country at that There were complicated political

0:30:28.636 --> 0:30:32.116
<v Speaker 2>considerations in eighteen forty five about the balance between slave

0:30:32.156 --> 0:30:36.156
<v Speaker 2>states and free states. That's a whole other story. What

0:30:36.316 --> 0:30:41.596
<v Speaker 2>matters is that, according to Casavon and Paulson's exhaustive constitutional analysis,

0:30:42.516 --> 0:30:48.356
<v Speaker 2>the offer still stands. New states of convenient size may

0:30:48.396 --> 0:30:53.996
<v Speaker 2>be formed. That's why their interpretation of Article four, Section three,

0:30:54.196 --> 0:30:58.276
<v Speaker 2>with its confusing semi colon and crucial nore, is so important.

0:30:58.836 --> 0:31:01.196
<v Speaker 2>It means that all that has to happen is for

0:31:01.236 --> 0:31:04.916
<v Speaker 2>the Texas legislature to sign off on division, and it's

0:31:04.916 --> 0:31:05.556
<v Speaker 2>a done deal.

0:31:06.076 --> 0:31:09.076
<v Speaker 3>When Congress pass that statue saying you could do this,

0:31:09.676 --> 0:31:14.516
<v Speaker 3>that's consent. They consented in advance, they consented on these terms,

0:31:14.836 --> 0:31:17.036
<v Speaker 3>and the consent has not been taken away.

0:31:19.356 --> 0:31:21.996
<v Speaker 2>That's as many as five states where there is now

0:31:22.036 --> 0:31:25.716
<v Speaker 2>only one ten US senators, where Texas now is only

0:31:25.756 --> 0:31:32.036
<v Speaker 2>two Texans in control of American politics for the next century.

0:31:36.476 --> 0:31:39.436
<v Speaker 6>We don't usually draw stages, but you've made me czar,

0:31:39.556 --> 0:31:42.476
<v Speaker 6>so I will do that.

0:31:43.156 --> 0:31:45.596
<v Speaker 2>If you ask around about who knows the most about

0:31:45.596 --> 0:31:48.996
<v Speaker 2>the political demographics of Texas. One name comes up a lot.

0:31:49.396 --> 0:31:54.796
<v Speaker 2>Michael Lee, studious guy, somber suit, glasses, loyally haircut, grew

0:31:54.836 --> 0:31:57.876
<v Speaker 2>up in Houston, went to the University of Texas, now

0:31:57.916 --> 0:32:00.716
<v Speaker 2>works at the Brennan Center for Justice at New York University.

0:32:01.316 --> 0:32:04.196
<v Speaker 2>It occurred to me that I'm potentially complicit in all

0:32:04.236 --> 0:32:07.596
<v Speaker 2>of this. I'm the one publicizing the Pulse in Casavon

0:32:07.716 --> 0:32:12.236
<v Speaker 2>manifesto for a complete makeover of American politics, so I

0:32:12.276 --> 0:32:14.716
<v Speaker 2>needed to find out what I'm getting everyone into.

0:32:15.436 --> 0:32:20.156
<v Speaker 6>I would create a district that or a district a

0:32:20.316 --> 0:32:24.836
<v Speaker 6>state that stretch that included Houston and the stretch to

0:32:25.036 --> 0:32:27.116
<v Speaker 6>the border with Louisiana.

0:32:27.516 --> 0:32:29.716
<v Speaker 2>Michael Lee and I met in a big conference room

0:32:29.756 --> 0:32:32.236
<v Speaker 2>near Wall Street. He brought with him a map of

0:32:32.236 --> 0:32:35.076
<v Speaker 2>Texas so large it covered the entire end of the table.

0:32:36.036 --> 0:32:38.396
<v Speaker 2>Lee started by drawing the borders of the new state

0:32:38.396 --> 0:32:40.836
<v Speaker 2>of Houston five million people.

0:32:41.156 --> 0:32:43.916
<v Speaker 6>And then on the western side, I would probably cut

0:32:43.916 --> 0:32:49.276
<v Speaker 6>it off somewhere in between Houston and Austin, which is

0:32:49.316 --> 0:32:50.876
<v Speaker 6>in central Texas.

0:32:51.196 --> 0:32:54.036
<v Speaker 2>The way he talked, he made it sound natural as

0:32:54.076 --> 0:32:56.396
<v Speaker 2>if Texas actually makes a lot of sense divided up

0:32:56.436 --> 0:32:59.996
<v Speaker 2>five ways. He saw a third state in Central Texas.

0:33:00.196 --> 0:33:03.116
<v Speaker 2>Set it around booming Austin, already the eleventh largest city

0:33:03.116 --> 0:33:05.716
<v Speaker 2>in the United States. The fourth state would be West

0:33:05.756 --> 0:33:10.076
<v Speaker 2>Texas Lubbock, Midland, Odessa, Flat and Dusty Oil Country. The

0:33:10.116 --> 0:33:12.636
<v Speaker 2>fifth state would run along the Mexican border, beginning with

0:33:12.716 --> 0:33:14.676
<v Speaker 2>San Antonio in the east and running all the way

0:33:14.676 --> 0:33:18.956
<v Speaker 2>to El Paso. When Paulson and Casavon published their law

0:33:18.996 --> 0:33:22.076
<v Speaker 2>review paper back in two thousand and four, the assumption

0:33:22.276 --> 0:33:24.876
<v Speaker 2>was that if Texas subdivided, this would be a net

0:33:24.956 --> 0:33:28.796
<v Speaker 2>wind for Republicans. Texas hasn't sent a Democrat to the

0:33:28.876 --> 0:33:33.436
<v Speaker 2>US Senate since the early nineteen nineties. It's the Republican heartland.

0:33:34.036 --> 0:33:36.876
<v Speaker 2>That's why they wrote that Texas. Republicans were thinking way

0:33:36.956 --> 0:33:41.316
<v Speaker 2>too small, why not quintupple their influence in Washington. But

0:33:41.396 --> 0:33:44.036
<v Speaker 2>in the years since then, the state's demographics have been

0:33:44.036 --> 0:33:48.636
<v Speaker 2>in upheaval. West Texas Oil Country would remain solid for

0:33:48.676 --> 0:33:52.396
<v Speaker 2>the Republicans two senators, but the new states of Houston

0:33:52.476 --> 0:33:56.116
<v Speaker 2>and Dallas and Central Texas, those are purple. They could

0:33:56.156 --> 0:33:59.236
<v Speaker 2>go either way. As for the state running along the

0:33:59.276 --> 0:34:02.636
<v Speaker 2>Mexican border, the one with its capital in San Antonio.

0:34:03.036 --> 0:34:06.316
<v Speaker 6>This is a heavily democratic state, and I think that

0:34:06.356 --> 0:34:09.596
<v Speaker 6>the state would be more Latino than New mexic Ago,

0:34:09.996 --> 0:34:13.076
<v Speaker 6>and it would elact not only Democrats, but probably Latino

0:34:13.116 --> 0:34:14.796
<v Speaker 6>Democrats to the Senate.

0:34:17.236 --> 0:34:19.876
<v Speaker 2>It's a whole new ballgame. Michael Lee and I did

0:34:19.876 --> 0:34:23.116
<v Speaker 2>the math for the ten new Texas Senate seats. Two

0:34:23.276 --> 0:34:26.236
<v Speaker 2>are a lock for the Republicans and they can probably

0:34:26.276 --> 0:34:28.796
<v Speaker 2>count on another from one of the toss up states.

0:34:29.116 --> 0:34:30.116
<v Speaker 2>So three in total.

0:34:30.916 --> 0:34:32.636
<v Speaker 6>Yeah, three, yeah, I think.

0:34:32.636 --> 0:34:35.116
<v Speaker 2>And it says like four are a lock for the

0:34:35.116 --> 0:34:37.556
<v Speaker 2>Democrats and three are up for grabs. Is that would

0:34:37.596 --> 0:34:41.956
<v Speaker 2>that be a fair I think so? Yeah, yeah, yeah,

0:34:42.196 --> 0:34:44.036
<v Speaker 2>which is a pretty big shift from the way things

0:34:44.036 --> 0:34:49.596
<v Speaker 2>are now. Right, all right, that's now. But if Texas

0:34:49.636 --> 0:34:54.436
<v Speaker 2>continues to grow and change, the three toss up states Dallas, Houston,

0:34:54.596 --> 0:34:59.436
<v Speaker 2>and Austin get even more democratic, especially the state of Houston.

0:34:59.876 --> 0:35:03.516
<v Speaker 2>So we'll say it's at the moment it's fifty to fifty.

0:35:04.636 --> 0:35:07.916
<v Speaker 2>But long term, if I said to you ten years

0:35:07.956 --> 0:35:10.156
<v Speaker 2>from now, you would not be prize if it elected

0:35:10.156 --> 0:35:10.876
<v Speaker 2>two Democrats.

0:35:10.916 --> 0:35:11.956
<v Speaker 6>That's right, that's right.

0:35:12.596 --> 0:35:15.756
<v Speaker 2>In a generation, could the five states of Texas send

0:35:15.916 --> 0:35:19.596
<v Speaker 2>eight Democratic senators to Washington against two Republicans.

0:35:20.076 --> 0:35:22.796
<v Speaker 6>It's amazing how many times you'll hear Republicans in Texas

0:35:22.836 --> 0:35:26.036
<v Speaker 6>say like, Texas is the Alamo of the United States. Right,

0:35:26.236 --> 0:35:29.316
<v Speaker 6>it's meaning like it's it's what homes like, you know,

0:35:29.396 --> 0:35:33.396
<v Speaker 6>the republic is in power. It's the wall against you know,

0:35:33.476 --> 0:35:36.236
<v Speaker 6>this like liberalism from places like New York and California.

0:35:37.036 --> 0:35:38.956
<v Speaker 6>I've always thought that was sort of a funny analogy

0:35:38.996 --> 0:35:41.836
<v Speaker 6>because everyone guided the almost you know, but you know,

0:35:41.876 --> 0:35:45.196
<v Speaker 6>that's the one that they use, and so.

0:35:46.716 --> 0:35:53.716
<v Speaker 2>An inadvertently talent analogy. Texas Democrats have been thinking way

0:35:53.756 --> 0:36:06.356
<v Speaker 2>too small. Imagine a governor of Texas reads your law

0:36:06.396 --> 0:36:08.556
<v Speaker 2>review article and said.

0:36:08.756 --> 0:36:10.316
<v Speaker 3>That's enough premises it is.

0:36:11.436 --> 0:36:14.596
<v Speaker 2>It says, okay, I want to well, I want to

0:36:14.636 --> 0:36:19.076
<v Speaker 2>trigger it. Okay, okay, So walk me through how triggering

0:36:19.156 --> 0:36:20.196
<v Speaker 2>might work in the real world.

0:36:20.396 --> 0:36:25.236
<v Speaker 3>Well, imagining a real world where people take law review

0:36:25.356 --> 0:36:27.876
<v Speaker 3>articles seriously, it's a it's a good it's a better

0:36:27.916 --> 0:36:34.196
<v Speaker 3>real world. All we know is that Congress has granted

0:36:34.196 --> 0:36:37.916
<v Speaker 3>its consent for the sovereign state of Texas to do

0:36:37.996 --> 0:36:38.876
<v Speaker 3>what it needs to do.

0:36:39.036 --> 0:36:41.876
<v Speaker 2>But the significant fact here is that given the Congress

0:36:41.916 --> 0:36:46.316
<v Speaker 2>has already granted its permission. The all that has to

0:36:46.316 --> 0:36:48.196
<v Speaker 2>happen is for Texas to get its act together.

0:36:48.516 --> 0:36:49.476
<v Speaker 3>It's up to Texas.

0:36:53.116 --> 0:36:55.836
<v Speaker 2>Let's say that as Texas is putting together this plan,

0:36:56.436 --> 0:36:59.196
<v Speaker 2>Congress is getting really alarmed and they don't want it

0:36:59.196 --> 0:37:03.316
<v Speaker 2>to happen. Can they revoke the permission that was granted

0:37:03.596 --> 0:37:05.116
<v Speaker 2>before Texas acts.

0:37:05.236 --> 0:37:07.716
<v Speaker 3>I don't see why not. I think they can.

0:37:08.316 --> 0:37:10.916
<v Speaker 2>Oh, I see it. So if Texas wants to do this,

0:37:10.996 --> 0:37:11.596
<v Speaker 2>they need to do it.

0:37:11.676 --> 0:37:13.556
<v Speaker 3>They got to get there, they get well, they just

0:37:13.556 --> 0:37:16.876
<v Speaker 3>gotta do it. Texas has to get its act together

0:37:17.436 --> 0:37:20.516
<v Speaker 3>quicker than Congress can get its act together to say no.

0:37:25.156 --> 0:37:35.716
<v Speaker 2>For the love of God, Texas, just do it. Revision's

0:37:35.756 --> 0:37:38.916
<v Speaker 2>History is a panoply production. The senior producer is Mei

0:37:39.036 --> 0:37:43.436
<v Speaker 2>LaBelle with Jacob Smith and Camille Baptista. Our editor is

0:37:43.516 --> 0:37:47.836
<v Speaker 2>Julia Bardon. Vlon Williams is our engineer. Fact checking by

0:37:47.916 --> 0:37:52.476
<v Speaker 2>Beth Johnson. Original music but Luis Kira special thanks to

0:37:52.516 --> 0:38:02.116
<v Speaker 2>Andy Bauers and Jacob Weisberg. I'm Malcolm, glad you don't

0:38:02.156 --> 0:38:06.156
<v Speaker 2>have any any bad memories of copy editing. A peace

0:38:06.196 --> 0:38:07.196
<v Speaker 2>of mind to you.

0:38:07.236 --> 0:38:10.676
<v Speaker 5>No, no, not at all. In fact, I use you

0:38:10.716 --> 0:38:14.316
<v Speaker 5>as the example of somebody who the pencil kind of

0:38:14.356 --> 0:38:15.116
<v Speaker 5>bounces off.

0:38:15.876 --> 0:38:17.276
<v Speaker 6>You do a very nice job.

0:38:17.996 --> 0:38:20.716
<v Speaker 2>My mother will be very pleased to hear that a

0:38:20.796 --> 0:38:21.276
<v Speaker 2>nice job