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Speaker 1: My guest today is American model Crystal Heffner, who is

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Speaker 1: best known as two thousand and nine's Playboy Playmate of

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Speaker 1: the Month for December, as well as being the third

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Speaker 1: wife of Playboy publisher Hugh Hefner. Crystal's brand new book

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Speaker 1: Only Say Good Things Surviving Playboy and Myself has been

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Speaker 1: making headline since it's released last month as she opens

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Speaker 1: up about her life in the Playboy mansion. This is

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Speaker 1: just me with Crystal Hefner. Let's get into it. Well,

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Speaker 1: very nice to meet you. So I had a holly on.

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Speaker 1: I just thought that would be a good idea and

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Speaker 1: a good conversation. And I used to have an agent

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Speaker 1: that also represented Kendra, So like your, your world was

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Speaker 1: peripherally in my in my vision, very peripherally. And I

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Speaker 1: did live in la and was a hostess a La

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Speaker 1: Scala in my twenties and some of thirties, and I

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Speaker 1: used to hear about the Playboy parties. So but I

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Speaker 1: was yeah, and I would I would have died to go.

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Speaker 1: And I was never invited. I wasn't part of that group.

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Speaker 1: I don't think I added any value or anything. But

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Speaker 1: so like I knew how iconic and prevalent. They were

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Speaker 1: in La the fiction, absolutely, you know, and very reputable

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Speaker 1: and very successful and very respected people were always there.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, there were, and there were a lot of Yeah.

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Speaker 2: It was like an a list type of vibe of

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Speaker 2: the Playboy Mansion for sure.

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Speaker 1: Which is crazy if you think about it now, because

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Speaker 1: you're thinking about the Jeffrey Epstein Island and you're thinking

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Speaker 1: about all the people like former presidents and titans of industry.

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Speaker 1: So I just keep making that parallel to this situation

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Speaker 1: and hearing your story and Holly's story and what I'm reading.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, absolutely, I think Helf wasn't necessarily a predator.

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Speaker 2: I think there would be more a much more, you know,

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Speaker 2: lawsuits against him. But this was also a time before

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Speaker 2: Me Too. Me Too happened a month after hef died,

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Speaker 2: so it's almost like, wow, he left just in time,

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Speaker 2: like his specific moment in history that was just perfect

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Speaker 2: for him, and then he just pieced out like right

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Speaker 2: at the perfect time. I remember when he was still alive,

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Speaker 2: the Cosby stuff had just started coming out, and you know,

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Speaker 2: he knew that, he knew that Cosby was not the

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Speaker 2: best guy. For sure.

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Speaker 1: Well, I definitely want to get into you, and that

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Speaker 1: obviously for you to be here, it's because your identity

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Speaker 1: is definitely tied to playboy Hugh Hefner. And I'm sure

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Speaker 1: you're trying to maybe this book is closure for you,

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Speaker 1: so you can have your own identity in your own

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Speaker 1: life and it's not to find you, but it is

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Speaker 1: also part of your story. So I'm sure you want

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Speaker 1: to kind of just like say it in your own terms,

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Speaker 1: your own on your in your own words, on your

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Speaker 1: own terms, and like get it out.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, I think it's helpful in the healing process.

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Speaker 2: There were a lot of things that happened there. I

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Speaker 2: didn't fully realize until after that messed me up a

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Speaker 2: bit and created I had this narrative for seventy years.

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Speaker 2: He just he stuck so hard at this narrative. He

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Speaker 2: has three thousand scrap books that just document his life

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Speaker 2: from the very beginning all the way to the end.

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Speaker 2: He asked us to put to put all like the

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Speaker 2: obituaries and photos of him like at Westwood Memorial and

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Speaker 2: the end. And I think he believed that these books

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Speaker 2: would be studied for generations and generations, and he truly

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Speaker 2: felt like he was an icon and a gift to

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Speaker 2: the world.

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Speaker 1: Well, it's first you said that you don't think that

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Speaker 1: he was necessarily a predator. But one what I've read

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Speaker 1: about you n Holly describing things as Stockholm and like

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Speaker 1: you didn't really realize what you were necessarily in. It

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Speaker 1: felt like a cult. It's submissive and obedient and behave

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Speaker 1: and all that. So, like, what if that's not a

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Speaker 1: word for that, because you're praying on the week if

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Speaker 1: you're looking for a certain type that's way younger and

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Speaker 1: that you can be a power figure in their life.

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Speaker 1: So if that's not a predator, what is that true?

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Speaker 2: I believe that that is a predator. I think what

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Speaker 2: I meant by that, by what I said was that,

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Speaker 2: you know, he's not the type of person that would

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Speaker 2: like force women against their will or drug people's drinks

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Speaker 2: or things like that. But got it, Yeah, he did.

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Speaker 2: I guess pray on young women. I was twenty one

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Speaker 2: when I went into the mansion. I came from a

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Speaker 2: broken home and a broken family. I think that younger

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Speaker 2: girls are easier to manipulate. When I was twenty one,

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Speaker 2: I felt like I was a grown up. But now

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Speaker 2: at thirty seven, I look back and like I was

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Speaker 2: I was just a baby, and.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, true, because I do remember I told this one

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Speaker 1: I was talking to Holly being in La and there

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Speaker 1: were some parties that were like skis crazy, Like you'd

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Speaker 1: go to Malibu and you'd go and there was a

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Speaker 1: lot of like coke and a lot of like just

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Speaker 1: deviance and you kind of are young and you don't

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Speaker 1: it feels uncomfortable, but you don't know why it must

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Speaker 1: be so wrong because everybody's there and seeming like it's right.

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Speaker 1: Like I just will always remember hearing about this pajama

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Speaker 1: party and I didn't, and I'm so so naive that

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Speaker 1: I went with my girlfriend. I think I was a

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Speaker 1: hostess at the time and I was young, wanted to

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Speaker 1: be an actress. And we showed up and I was

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Speaker 1: wearing cow flannel pajamas. But they called it a pajama party.

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Speaker 1: But it was really like everybody in like really sexy

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Speaker 1: lingerie and the men were wearing like tight, you know, underwear,

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Speaker 1: like things that you probably saw every time at the Mansion.

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Speaker 1: But for whatever reason, it made me feel really really

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Speaker 1: dark and uncomfortable. And I will be honest, I wanted

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Speaker 1: to feel comfortable there, like I didn't know what was

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Speaker 1: wrong with me that it didn't feel right?

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Speaker 2: That's really sad. I'm just thinking about you showing up

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Speaker 2: in your little cow costume, your calpajamas, and yeah, it's

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Speaker 2: like you're not cool unless you're showing off your body,

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Speaker 2: which is.

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Speaker 1: Right, but being very sexual and it was like lingerie.

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Speaker 1: And I don't think I was like a sexual person

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Speaker 1: in that way, like I could be maybe with one.

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Speaker 1: But so that was a lot of currency in La overall,

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Speaker 1: and you were in the middle of it. And so

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Speaker 1: I ask you, as a young girl, being from a

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Speaker 1: broken home, were you predispoke? Did you were you promiscuous

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Speaker 1: in high school? Were you like very sexual? Did you

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Speaker 1: shield other things with sexuality? Because it can go both ways.

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Speaker 1: Many people go to try to get love from sex

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Speaker 1: in high school and college. You don't understand the girl

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Speaker 1: who's sleeping with the whole hockey team because you know

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Speaker 1: that's not going to end well. But in the moment,

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Speaker 1: each hockey player they feel like is going to give

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Speaker 1: them love or something.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. Absolutely, I lost my high school sweetheart and that

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Speaker 2: was very hard. He died in the war in Iraq.

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Speaker 2: And after that, I think I was about eighteen nineteen

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Speaker 2: and I thought, you know, people were paying attention to

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Speaker 2: me in that way, and I just thought, oh, I

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Speaker 2: can use it, like sexuality as a tool basically. And

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Speaker 2: I feel that was like an option for women to

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Speaker 2: just it still is, and I do think it helped

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Speaker 2: with the Playboy Mansion and getting in there. If I

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Speaker 2: didn't have implants and I wasn't dressed in a skimpy

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Speaker 2: French made outfit, Heff would have just looked right past me.

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Speaker 2: If I was wearing the kappajamas, I don't think it

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Speaker 2: would have invited me.

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Speaker 1: In, right, And do you think that? So, first of all,

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Speaker 1: anybody who's going to deny that using their sexuality or

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Speaker 1: the way they look as a tool is something that

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Speaker 1: if you have it, you're not going to use it

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Speaker 1: is lying like it's just it's part of it, and

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Speaker 1: it's confused. And I wonder if it's a curse being

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Speaker 1: attractive and having that sect and being so you know,

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Speaker 1: looking so good, because then you're not focusing on your

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Speaker 1: mind or your intelligence or your business acumen, and neither

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Speaker 1: is anyone else. So how has that been part of

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Speaker 1: your life?

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Speaker 2: You know, around that time before the mansion, it was

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Speaker 2: a time when Pamela Anderson and Jenny McCarthy and Carmen

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Speaker 2: Electra were super famous, and you could just feel this

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Speaker 2: sexual energy just coming up, using their sexuality as a tool,

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Speaker 2: just oozing off of like pages of magazines in the news.

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Speaker 2: And so that's around that time, that's kind of what

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Speaker 2: you aspire to be. You're like, oh, these women are powerful,

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Speaker 2: they have the world at their feet, Like I want

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Speaker 2: to be just like them. So then you get the

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Speaker 2: boob job and bleach the hair, and you're like, wow,

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Speaker 2: I could really be somebody if I was like if

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Speaker 2: I was like them, And I think that's kind of

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Speaker 2: how it started off for me. But over time, and

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Speaker 2: your value is just skin deep. It really eats at

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Speaker 2: your soul when you're only valued for what you look

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Speaker 2: like and you're constantly trying to keep up, keep up

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Speaker 2: with appearances. You know, hefwoods say, you know you're getting

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Speaker 2: fat or your nails or your hair, just picking at me.

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Speaker 2: And in the beginning, I thought, oh, I can do better, like,

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Speaker 2: oh I can be I can be better. I can

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Speaker 2: do better, But over time it's it's it just made

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Speaker 2: me angry. And that was also time with social media,

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Speaker 2: I was posting bikini photos. It's like twenty fourteen, and

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Speaker 2: and I realized, I like, I'm contributing to this. It's toxic,

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Speaker 2: it's misogynistic, like a misogynistic culture. I'm contribute contributing to it.

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Speaker 2: It sucks and it It took time and just learning

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Speaker 2: and the time shifting to fully realize that your your

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Speaker 2: value isn't what you look like.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and that's been one of the things about the

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Speaker 1: Kardashians that in the past I've discussed and I I

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Speaker 1: don't know if I don't see it as much, or

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Speaker 1: maybe they're not as in the same position they were before,

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Speaker 1: but I don't see it as much. But as a

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Speaker 1: mother of a teen, I was thinking about just it

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Speaker 1: doesn't matter. If it does matter, if they're all amazing, brilliant,

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Speaker 1: lovely people, the message being put out is lose the

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Speaker 1: weight in two weeks to get on the met Gala,

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Speaker 1: the filtering of the pictures, that editing the bones out

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Speaker 1: and the wastes and the butts, and Kylie Jenner doesn't

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Speaker 1: look anything like what she looked like. And so that's

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Speaker 1: their business, but their currency. And so yesterday you're watching

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Speaker 1: Mark Zuckerberg talking and trying to defend the fact that

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Speaker 1: it's been proven that teen girls are having massive anxiety

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Speaker 1: and major body security issues that are leading to real

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Speaker 1: problems and suicide from social media. So that's where that

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Speaker 1: connection is. And sometimes I feel like, you know, having

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Speaker 1: to say the difficult things against really popular families is

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Speaker 1: but trying to do it in a constructive way is

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Speaker 1: challenging because they're so you know, but there is a fact.

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Speaker 1: It's a fact that this is like an influence on people.

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Speaker 1: And you experienced it too.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's hard and it is toxic, and it's hurting

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Speaker 2: young girls. You know. I think that the Kardashians are

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Speaker 2: brilliant and they've created this huge empire for themselves. The

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Speaker 2: thing that sucks is the youth cells and beauty cells.

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Speaker 2: But I think times are changing a bit, you know.

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Speaker 2: I'm seeing people like that would be considered older, like

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Speaker 2: in ads now and Sephora and things like that. I

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Speaker 2: think it's shifting a bit too. But if the Kardashians

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Speaker 2: helped with the message of just loving yourself, like self love,

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Speaker 2: self acceptance, I think girls that look up to them

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Speaker 2: that would be much healthier. You can't keep up with them.

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Speaker 2: It's hundreds of thousands of dollars of surgery. Uh. The

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Speaker 2: other day I saw Kim Kardashian posting, Uh, just psoriasis.

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Speaker 2: It's like all over our big big patches, like all

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Speaker 2: of our legs and everywhere. And I just think to myself, like,

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Speaker 2: you keep putting this like toxic stuff in your body.

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Speaker 2: It's not like nothing is like natural from the earth.

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Speaker 2: It's just you know, these the fillers and implants and

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Speaker 2: all these things, and your body's gonna have a reaction.

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Speaker 2: You're gonna have to pay for that later.

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Speaker 1: And that's it's very interesting.

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Speaker 2: It's sad.

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Speaker 1: That's that movie Death Becomes Her when everybody's just getting

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Speaker 1: all the surgery and plastic and everything, and like their

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Speaker 1: their their ears and everything starts falling off because they

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Speaker 1: look young and they're trying to chase you. Their body

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Speaker 1: starts falling apart. Yeah, so you were in La and

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Speaker 1: well you lived in San Diego and you go to

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Speaker 1: the Playboy mansion and you're chosen, and I can see

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Speaker 1: the allure in that like that, we can all just judge.

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Speaker 1: It's like very not unlike the Housewives. Didn't she know

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Speaker 1: what she signed up for? But I imagine it's not

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Speaker 1: on the first day, like it's an evolution. You just somehow.

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Speaker 1: Holly said it was seven years later and she couldn't

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Speaker 1: believe that had been seven years. So, you know, you

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Speaker 1: had a curfew and you had a small budget, and

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Speaker 1: were you on the show too?

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Speaker 2: I was on season six of The Girl's next Door

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Speaker 2: and you know, half made four hundred thousand dollars an

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Speaker 2: episode and I didn't make anything.

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Speaker 1: Wow, And you knew that then or you found it

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Speaker 1: out later?

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Speaker 2: Now? Then I knew that hef and the producer because

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Speaker 2: he would always have him on speakerphone, Kevin Burns. They

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Speaker 2: would talk, oh, he just picked it up in four

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Speaker 2: hundred thousand each episode and eight episodes, and so I

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Speaker 2: would hear they would all brag with each other. And

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Speaker 2: I didn't get paid anything for The Girls next Door

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Speaker 2: season six. I was made to feel like, oh, I

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Speaker 2: should just be so lucky to be there, and I

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Speaker 2: didn't want to do it. I never wanted to be famous.

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Speaker 2: That was never my goal. Never wanted to be an

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Speaker 2: actress or anything like that.

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Speaker 1: Fascinating. So did you feel that you were exploited by

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Speaker 1: E or it was just hef like because are they

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Speaker 1: this goes on with Bravo and Housewives they should be

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Speaker 1: lucky to be there, and me, Bethany Frankel, I'd be nothing. Everybody,

259
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Speaker 1: I'd be nothing if I was never on the Housewives,

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Speaker 1: Like that's what it's been boiled down to.

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Speaker 2: I hate that because it's like if if it wasn't that,

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Speaker 2: like you have the personality to, you know, be the

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Speaker 2: best in another situation. So yeah, I hate it when

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Speaker 2: people people say things like that, And yeah, there's a

265
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Speaker 2: lot of things were unfair. When Hef had asked me

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Speaker 2: to marry him, they were filming another show called Marrying

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Speaker 2: Hef It was going to be on Lifetime. I found out.

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Speaker 2: I found out they were making eight hundred thousand dollars

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Speaker 2: for a two hour special wow, and my talent fee

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Speaker 2: was twenty five hundred. So it's weird. It's strange because

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Speaker 2: a lot of people, I'm like, ninety nine point nine

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Speaker 2: percent of the comments from the book are incredible, but that,

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Speaker 2: like the troll percentage is like profiting off a dead

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Speaker 2: man and all this stuff. I was like, did we

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Speaker 2: ever think about how he profited off of me personally?

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Speaker 2: Or did we ever think about how profited profited off

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Speaker 2: of all of these women? For years and years and years,

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Speaker 2: all the way to the very very first issue Marilyn Monroe.

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Speaker 2: He bought her photos from a calendar company, put him

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Speaker 2: in the put him in the magazine. She didn't get

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Speaker 2: a dime, and she started the whole empire. Now I

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Speaker 2: was buried next to her, and she has no say

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Speaker 2: and whose bones are buried next to her for all eternity?

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Speaker 1: Oh my god, that's insane. Wow. Okay, So you walk

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Speaker 1: into this party and you feel lucky to be chosen,

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Speaker 1: you know. And the way it's described and what I

287
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Speaker 1: was reading is like multiple people, we're having sex with

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Speaker 1: him in one space.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah. The first night in his bedroom there twins

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Speaker 2: were there, which to me they were sisters. They were nineteen.

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Speaker 2: It's disgusting, you know. I remember him holding them on

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Speaker 2: each side of him and like looking up into this

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Speaker 2: mirror and he's like, my babies. Wow, I'm just like,

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Speaker 2: these girls are nineteen.

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Speaker 1: And why did you like, so, what did you feel

296
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Speaker 1: disgusting about yourself? Like did you feel like it was prostitution?

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Speaker 1: Like what? What? What was going through your mind? Like

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Speaker 1: going there and being in a French maid costume is

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Speaker 1: one thing, but like having sex with him, and he's

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Speaker 1: and I'm not. I promise you on my life, I'm

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Speaker 1: not judging at oh I don't like Yeah, I want

302
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Speaker 1: to like really understand I'm not and I would never

303
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Speaker 1: have you on here to like then beat you down.

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Speaker 1: It's not I I'm You're a smart girl, you're a

305
00:16:50,280 --> 00:16:51,920
Speaker 1: beautiful girl. You could be with anybody you want in

306
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Speaker 1: the world, with or without have So it's the something

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Speaker 1: fucked up that went down. And I kind of want

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Speaker 1: to like no, because people have daughters, go off to college,

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Speaker 1: go off you by the selves want to be actors

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Speaker 1: as you cannot put them in bubble wrap, so like

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Speaker 1: you're someone's daughter.

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Speaker 2: My parents came from England. They didn't have green cards.

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Speaker 2: My dad died and it was just my mom and I.

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Speaker 2: We were renting a bedroom in some other family's house

315
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Speaker 2: like we had We had nothing. So yeah, I always

316
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Speaker 2: felt small. I always felt that everyone was better than me.

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Speaker 2: And when I went into the mansion I met Heff.

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Speaker 2: Even though it was like this kind of twisted situation

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Speaker 2: that I didn't realize the magnitude until much later, I

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Speaker 2: did feel like, oh, this is somewhere I could feel

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Speaker 2: safe or feel that I could belong like I can

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Speaker 2: belong somewhere.

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Speaker 1: Finally, that sounds like a cult, which is hoppened.

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Speaker 2: It was definitely, it was definitely a cult. There's a

325
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Speaker 2: cult leader. You do everything they tell you to do.

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Speaker 2: If you slip up and get in trouble, like, you

327
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Speaker 2: feel guilty and terrible and you're going to do better.

328
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Speaker 2: I spoke to two women that were in a cult,

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Speaker 2: and we all reminded ourselves of each other. It was

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Speaker 2: it was a cult for sure.

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Speaker 1: That that makes it make sense to me, Like because

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Speaker 1: everybody could be logical and all the moms with our

333
00:18:08,880 --> 00:18:11,320
Speaker 1: cross body bags and our lattes can be like, oh

334
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Speaker 1: she knew and gossip. But like you were young, you

335
00:18:14,560 --> 00:18:17,040
Speaker 1: were twenty one, You walked in there. And if you

336
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Speaker 1: get into a cult, your mind is completely fucked up

337
00:18:21,119 --> 00:18:23,720
Speaker 1: because everything you're saying, you didn't get paid, you had

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00:18:23,720 --> 00:18:28,800
Speaker 1: a curfew, you got in trouble like and so what

339
00:18:29,240 --> 00:18:31,679
Speaker 1: did make you stay? What did you like? Did you

340
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Speaker 1: love him? Did you love the experience like you felt

341
00:18:34,680 --> 00:18:37,720
Speaker 1: like you belonged like? What made you keep going? And

342
00:18:37,760 --> 00:18:39,639
Speaker 1: did you ever try to get out in the middle

343
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Speaker 1: of it?

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Speaker 2: Yeah? I think with colts you get a little bit brainwashed,

345
00:18:45,520 --> 00:18:48,280
Speaker 2: you know, as impressionable. And I'm in this place where

346
00:18:48,920 --> 00:18:51,720
Speaker 2: he's the king of his castle. He's got about seventy

347
00:18:51,800 --> 00:18:54,520
Speaker 2: staff that are all yes men all around him, and

348
00:18:54,960 --> 00:18:57,760
Speaker 2: it's this big bubble and you get kind of stuck

349
00:18:57,800 --> 00:19:02,960
Speaker 2: in it and sucked in and and you know, my

350
00:19:03,119 --> 00:19:06,320
Speaker 2: thirty seven year old self that has more wisdom. If

351
00:19:06,359 --> 00:19:08,919
Speaker 2: I in my twenty one year old body would be

352
00:19:09,000 --> 00:19:12,080
Speaker 2: punching him in the face, like and calling him discussing

353
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Speaker 2: and what are you doing to these women? But I

354
00:19:14,240 --> 00:19:16,800
Speaker 2: didn't have the tools then, and I was trying to

355
00:19:16,800 --> 00:19:19,160
Speaker 2: fit in and I thought, I'm going to do whatever

356
00:19:19,200 --> 00:19:23,080
Speaker 2: this man wants me to do to be like the favorite.

357
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Speaker 1: Or the best.

358
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Speaker 2: And it's gross.

359
00:19:26,320 --> 00:19:28,919
Speaker 1: That reminds me. That's why I always say that Housewives

360
00:19:28,960 --> 00:19:32,640
Speaker 1: is like a cult, because everybody's trying to kiss up

361
00:19:32,680 --> 00:19:36,240
Speaker 1: to the leader and be the favorite and everybody, you

362
00:19:36,320 --> 00:19:38,639
Speaker 1: know it really it's not. They're not living together, but

363
00:19:38,800 --> 00:19:41,680
Speaker 1: everybody wants to be the favorite, and people want to

364
00:19:41,680 --> 00:19:44,960
Speaker 1: be there. And it's funny because I was criticized like that.

365
00:19:45,119 --> 00:19:47,760
Speaker 1: We you know, everyone knows what they're signing up for.

366
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Speaker 1: And I will be honest at this point now in

367
00:19:50,000 --> 00:19:53,120
Speaker 1: twenty twenty four. I think everybody does know what they're

368
00:19:53,119 --> 00:19:56,359
Speaker 1: signing up for. But and back then it sounded like

369
00:19:56,400 --> 00:19:58,080
Speaker 1: a good idea. It was just like a nice show

370
00:19:58,160 --> 00:19:59,760
Speaker 1: and you're making you know, you're making well, you know,

371
00:19:59,840 --> 00:20:02,879
Speaker 1: make money yet but you eventually do you not making money?

372
00:20:02,880 --> 00:20:06,840
Speaker 1: That's even crazier, Like, I don't you you were literally

373
00:20:06,880 --> 00:20:09,000
Speaker 1: just getting to live in this nice house, but taking

374
00:20:09,080 --> 00:20:11,840
Speaker 1: up years of your life. And then we get into

375
00:20:13,000 --> 00:20:14,880
Speaker 1: were you Did you ever love him?

376
00:20:17,000 --> 00:20:21,720
Speaker 2: I never was in love with half right off the bat, like, Okay,

377
00:20:21,760 --> 00:20:24,560
Speaker 2: if this man wants four women in the bed with him,

378
00:20:24,640 --> 00:20:27,240
Speaker 2: he cannot love me. Like that's it's a joke. That's

379
00:20:27,280 --> 00:20:30,760
Speaker 2: a joke. So for what it's worth. You know, I

380
00:20:30,760 --> 00:20:32,520
Speaker 2: didn't know then. I didn't know then that he was

381
00:20:33,040 --> 00:20:36,680
Speaker 2: a narcissist. Now I know that he's a narcissist. Now

382
00:20:37,200 --> 00:20:40,639
Speaker 2: all of his behavior makes more sense to me. You know,

383
00:20:40,680 --> 00:20:43,720
Speaker 2: we didn't really use those terms when I was when

384
00:20:43,720 --> 00:20:45,560
Speaker 2: I was there, and now I'm like, okay, it's all

385
00:20:45,600 --> 00:20:48,520
Speaker 2: about him. I just be his mirror and reflect his

386
00:20:48,560 --> 00:20:51,480
Speaker 2: self importance back at him. It's everything he wants to

387
00:20:51,520 --> 00:20:54,320
Speaker 2: do sexually. Who gives a shit about me? It's all

388
00:20:54,359 --> 00:20:57,159
Speaker 2: about what he wants and his stupid little ritual and

389
00:20:57,240 --> 00:21:00,560
Speaker 2: routine that he has. And yeah, his friend would bring

390
00:21:00,640 --> 00:21:04,800
Speaker 2: articles for him and just anything related to himself. That's

391
00:21:04,840 --> 00:21:06,720
Speaker 2: all he wanted to talk about. And so as long

392
00:21:06,760 --> 00:21:10,159
Speaker 2: as you're doing that, he likes you. And that's probably

393
00:21:10,160 --> 00:21:13,600
Speaker 2: how Holly became so close with him or the number

394
00:21:13,640 --> 00:21:16,119
Speaker 2: one or whatever. And same with me, is that we

395
00:21:16,280 --> 00:21:21,000
Speaker 2: just followed along better than the other people and made

396
00:21:21,320 --> 00:21:25,600
Speaker 2: completely lost ourselves to just mirror him.

397
00:21:26,200 --> 00:21:27,840
Speaker 1: You behaved, it's terrible.

398
00:21:28,080 --> 00:21:33,399
Speaker 2: Yeah, you lose yourself because the real meat wouldn't bleach

399
00:21:33,560 --> 00:21:36,719
Speaker 2: my scalp and burn my head. The real meat wouldn't

400
00:21:36,760 --> 00:21:40,040
Speaker 2: wear stupid little outfits and stupid heels to all these

401
00:21:40,080 --> 00:21:44,600
Speaker 2: parties and try and keep sexualizing myself. Like now, like

402
00:21:44,640 --> 00:21:47,000
Speaker 2: I've thrown all of that stuff away. It just makes

403
00:21:47,000 --> 00:21:50,359
Speaker 2: me sick. I'm over it. But I didn't have the

404
00:21:50,400 --> 00:21:53,000
Speaker 2: tools then be so weird.

405
00:21:53,560 --> 00:21:55,280
Speaker 1: Because you don't recognize that person.

406
00:21:56,200 --> 00:22:00,000
Speaker 2: No, I feel sorry for myself at that young age

407
00:22:00,080 --> 00:22:04,479
Speaker 2: and manipulated by an eighty year old man when I

408
00:22:04,520 --> 00:22:07,399
Speaker 2: was twenty one, and I remember being there and just

409
00:22:07,400 --> 00:22:11,120
Speaker 2: being so in it that he half would do interviews

410
00:22:11,119 --> 00:22:14,480
Speaker 2: and say, oh, the sound of young girls laughter like

411
00:22:14,600 --> 00:22:18,359
Speaker 2: keeps me young? And then I'm like, oh, yeah, that's me. Wow,

412
00:22:18,400 --> 00:22:21,480
Speaker 2: I feel so special, And now I'm like, yuck. It's

413
00:22:21,480 --> 00:22:25,119
Speaker 2: like goes into those conspiracy theories of like eating the

414
00:22:25,160 --> 00:22:29,680
Speaker 2: blood of children or something. Right, but it was it's gross.

415
00:22:29,720 --> 00:22:32,400
Speaker 2: And I remember when Holly's book came out and how

416
00:22:32,480 --> 00:22:34,879
Speaker 2: dare she say all these bad things about hef But

417
00:22:35,320 --> 00:22:38,480
Speaker 2: but now now I'm like, She's right, it's weird.

418
00:22:39,240 --> 00:22:41,359
Speaker 1: Do you have any relationship with the other women or

419
00:22:41,440 --> 00:22:44,160
Speaker 1: is it too traumatizing like to talk to them about this.

420
00:22:45,280 --> 00:22:48,320
Speaker 2: I talked to Kendra the most. I think that Holly

421
00:22:48,320 --> 00:22:51,359
Speaker 2: and Bridgett there's still some kind of I don't know.

422
00:22:51,400 --> 00:22:54,440
Speaker 2: I just wish we could all get along. And we're

423
00:22:54,440 --> 00:22:56,440
Speaker 2: not going to agree on everything, but I just wish

424
00:22:56,480 --> 00:22:59,120
Speaker 2: we could get along. At the Playboy Mansion, that whole

425
00:22:59,160 --> 00:23:04,080
Speaker 2: experience is something that was like some weird social experiment

426
00:23:04,160 --> 00:23:07,119
Speaker 2: in time that will never be repeated again. So the

427
00:23:07,200 --> 00:23:09,760
Speaker 2: people that went through there I want to stay connected

428
00:23:09,800 --> 00:23:12,440
Speaker 2: to because it's it's interesting.

429
00:23:12,880 --> 00:23:15,399
Speaker 1: It's an experience, but like a cult, you're sort of

430
00:23:15,480 --> 00:23:19,560
Speaker 1: compartmentalized and often pitted against each other, and so the

431
00:23:19,640 --> 00:23:24,120
Speaker 1: things that happened in that extraordinary circumstanstance, then is affecting

432
00:23:24,720 --> 00:23:27,440
Speaker 1: your relationships now that if you met them at a

433
00:23:27,520 --> 00:23:30,640
Speaker 1: restaurant or in a store, you might be friends with them.

434
00:23:30,680 --> 00:23:33,520
Speaker 1: But because you all went through this harrowing that's housewives too,

435
00:23:33,560 --> 00:23:36,280
Speaker 1: their housewes that hate me, their housewives that hate me

436
00:23:36,520 --> 00:23:38,480
Speaker 1: based on something I might have said about a blog

437
00:23:38,920 --> 00:23:42,240
Speaker 1: or based on being in this extraordinary experiment with them

438
00:23:42,240 --> 00:23:44,399
Speaker 1: that doesn't reflect real life or who I am or

439
00:23:44,440 --> 00:23:48,080
Speaker 1: who they are. You know, people ratting each other out,

440
00:23:48,119 --> 00:23:50,879
Speaker 1: people saying that someone was really broke, this one cheated

441
00:23:50,920 --> 00:23:53,639
Speaker 1: on their husband, you know what I mean. It just

442
00:23:53,720 --> 00:23:55,600
Speaker 1: you do different things in that environment. And I think

443
00:23:55,680 --> 00:23:59,560
Speaker 1: that's probably why you're saying that you don't currently have

444
00:23:59,600 --> 00:24:01,840
Speaker 1: a relation with other people in that experience.

445
00:24:02,119 --> 00:24:04,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I think it gets ingrained in us in

446
00:24:04,640 --> 00:24:07,880
Speaker 2: a completely cellular level to all hate each other.

447
00:24:08,280 --> 00:24:12,720
Speaker 1: It's sad exactly in a time where we're supposed to

448
00:24:12,760 --> 00:24:17,200
Speaker 1: be host me too. These things are interesting that they happen,

449
00:24:17,280 --> 00:24:20,119
Speaker 1: They still happen, and the men somehow are at the

450
00:24:20,160 --> 00:24:28,600
Speaker 1: top of the realm. Yes, fascinating. So and I by

451
00:24:28,680 --> 00:24:30,720
Speaker 1: reading about this sect well, first of all I'm picking

452
00:24:30,760 --> 00:24:34,040
Speaker 1: up that you feel you're probably still really working through

453
00:24:34,040 --> 00:24:37,640
Speaker 1: this in therapy or like how are you coping? Are

454
00:24:37,640 --> 00:24:40,120
Speaker 1: you still feeling shame as you go through this experience

455
00:24:40,160 --> 00:24:42,199
Speaker 1: talking about it through this book, because writing it is

456
00:24:42,200 --> 00:24:43,720
Speaker 1: one thing, then it goes to print and now here

457
00:24:43,760 --> 00:24:44,920
Speaker 1: you are like living it again.

458
00:24:45,760 --> 00:24:47,320
Speaker 2: Yeah. I think what I'm trying to do is just

459
00:24:47,359 --> 00:24:49,680
Speaker 2: give myself grace and not be so hard on myself.

460
00:24:51,720 --> 00:24:58,119
Speaker 2: But yeah, that place was very hard, and this a

461
00:24:58,160 --> 00:24:59,760
Speaker 2: lot of gross stuff. You know, a lot of this

462
00:25:00,000 --> 00:25:02,439
Speaker 2: celebrities that even came through there, Like a lot of

463
00:25:02,480 --> 00:25:09,399
Speaker 2: those men were gross, like yep, gross, perver, misogynistic, nasty people.

464
00:25:09,840 --> 00:25:13,040
Speaker 2: And I'm like, Hollywood is gross. You know, people people

465
00:25:13,119 --> 00:25:16,520
Speaker 2: have these certain dreams and it's it's all smoke and mirrors.

466
00:25:16,600 --> 00:25:21,200
Speaker 2: It's disgusting. Everywhere you turn, it's it sucks and it's

467
00:25:21,200 --> 00:25:27,359
Speaker 2: not real. And people idolize fame and Hollywood and I

468
00:25:27,400 --> 00:25:30,320
Speaker 2: think trash. Literally you go down to Hollywood Boulevard and

469
00:25:30,359 --> 00:25:31,879
Speaker 2: there's just trash everywhere.

470
00:25:32,240 --> 00:25:34,680
Speaker 1: By the way, I have I know all the guys

471
00:25:34,680 --> 00:25:36,959
Speaker 1: who are at those parties, and I know there's scumbags,

472
00:25:36,960 --> 00:25:39,840
Speaker 1: And that's what I asked Holly, but she didn't have

473
00:25:39,920 --> 00:25:42,640
Speaker 1: like an answer to this. I was wondering, well, where

474
00:25:42,640 --> 00:25:43,359
Speaker 1: do you live now?

475
00:25:44,040 --> 00:25:46,080
Speaker 2: I live in West Hollywood. I'm still in Los Angeles,

476
00:25:46,160 --> 00:25:47,720
Speaker 2: but I go between here in Hawaii. I have a

477
00:25:47,760 --> 00:25:48,960
Speaker 2: farm in Hawaii, which.

478
00:25:48,800 --> 00:25:52,479
Speaker 1: Is oh yeah, Well, I'm saying, when you see some

479
00:25:52,560 --> 00:25:55,040
Speaker 1: of these people, you must run into people in LA

480
00:25:55,160 --> 00:25:57,480
Speaker 1: that like you're both looking like they're they're hiding because

481
00:25:57,520 --> 00:25:59,399
Speaker 1: I know that you've seen what they've been down with

482
00:25:59,440 --> 00:26:00,679
Speaker 1: because you're on front lines.

483
00:26:00,920 --> 00:26:06,120
Speaker 2: Is that disgusting? I've had certain big actors after Half died,

484
00:26:06,640 --> 00:26:08,600
Speaker 2: like one of them said, oh, can we continue that

485
00:26:08,760 --> 00:26:12,679
Speaker 2: vibe at my place? I'm like, that's disgusting. And then

486
00:26:12,720 --> 00:26:15,280
Speaker 2: I had another when Half wasn't well, I had another

487
00:26:15,320 --> 00:26:18,240
Speaker 2: one say can we go to lunch? Because you know,

488
00:26:18,320 --> 00:26:20,320
Speaker 2: Half needs to pass the torch to someone and it

489
00:26:20,400 --> 00:26:21,159
Speaker 2: might as well be me.

490
00:26:22,160 --> 00:26:24,240
Speaker 1: Wow, Like, what the heck?

491
00:26:24,520 --> 00:26:26,680
Speaker 2: What do these men think? Why do they think they're

492
00:26:26,760 --> 00:26:27,480
Speaker 2: God's gift?

493
00:26:27,560 --> 00:26:32,560
Speaker 1: It's disgusting, It's unbelievable, and it's so funny because that's

494
00:26:32,600 --> 00:26:34,680
Speaker 1: what that pretty woman seeing was about. And like Julia

495
00:26:34,760 --> 00:26:37,080
Speaker 1: Roberts is there, and then Jason Alexander thinks he's just

496
00:26:37,080 --> 00:26:40,000
Speaker 1: gonna grab Julia Roberts for himself, you know, like she's

497
00:26:40,040 --> 00:26:40,360
Speaker 1: just like.

498
00:26:40,440 --> 00:26:43,160
Speaker 2: So many Jason, Alexander's a.

499
00:26:43,040 --> 00:26:48,000
Speaker 1: Piece of property. Yeah. So, and it's interesting that, well,

500
00:26:48,280 --> 00:26:50,680
Speaker 1: so you get married, do you have friends at this time?

501
00:26:50,800 --> 00:26:52,520
Speaker 1: Are all your friends in that that you think? Are

502
00:26:52,520 --> 00:26:54,800
Speaker 1: your friends in that world? Are you talking to friends

503
00:26:54,880 --> 00:26:57,520
Speaker 1: family about getting married? Are they like, she's your nuts?

504
00:26:57,560 --> 00:26:58,640
Speaker 1: And like what about that?

505
00:26:59,640 --> 00:27:03,040
Speaker 2: I just my mom at that point, and she she

506
00:27:03,160 --> 00:27:05,880
Speaker 2: encouraged it. She she had gone to the Playboy Club

507
00:27:05,920 --> 00:27:10,560
Speaker 2: in London, and you know, she's British and she's just fun,

508
00:27:11,119 --> 00:27:13,120
Speaker 2: life of the party. She loved going to the parties.

509
00:27:13,520 --> 00:27:15,160
Speaker 2: Now I speak to her and she said, I had

510
00:27:15,160 --> 00:27:16,760
Speaker 2: no idea. It was like that if I did, you know,

511
00:27:16,760 --> 00:27:20,439
Speaker 2: I wouldn't want you to go there. But so she

512
00:27:20,520 --> 00:27:23,840
Speaker 2: feels shamed too. Yeah, I think so. It was hard

513
00:27:23,840 --> 00:27:24,639
Speaker 2: for you to read the book?

514
00:27:25,200 --> 00:27:27,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, that's interesting. That reminds me of Paris and Kathy,

515
00:27:28,040 --> 00:27:30,720
Speaker 1: with Paris going to that horrible boarding school and Kathy

516
00:27:30,720 --> 00:27:34,000
Speaker 1: oh yeah, noing, you know, having to hear about it,

517
00:27:34,000 --> 00:27:36,040
Speaker 1: read about it, and feel partially responsible as a mother.

518
00:27:36,080 --> 00:27:38,280
Speaker 1: Your number one job is to protect your daughter.

519
00:27:38,880 --> 00:27:40,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, and she thought she was doing the right thing

520
00:27:40,520 --> 00:27:40,840
Speaker 2: for her.

521
00:27:41,280 --> 00:27:47,240
Speaker 1: Yeah, the sexual descriptions that you give of hef sound

522
00:27:47,359 --> 00:27:49,760
Speaker 1: like that, like he couldn't get it up, he couldn't

523
00:27:49,840 --> 00:27:52,800
Speaker 1: keep it up, and he wasn't good in bed. So

524
00:27:52,840 --> 00:27:55,800
Speaker 1: he put on this whole costume with his whole life

525
00:27:55,920 --> 00:27:58,679
Speaker 1: of like sex, when it seems like it was like

526
00:27:58,760 --> 00:28:01,600
Speaker 1: some real problem, like at the core, the one thing

527
00:28:01,640 --> 00:28:03,840
Speaker 1: that he portrayed is the one thing that he couldn't do.

528
00:28:05,040 --> 00:28:08,720
Speaker 2: It's yeah, it's it's crazy, and it's interesting you say

529
00:28:08,720 --> 00:28:11,280
Speaker 2: that because it's so true. I remember going out with

530
00:28:11,359 --> 00:28:14,240
Speaker 2: him and fans would just swarm him and be like, heth,

531
00:28:14,560 --> 00:28:17,760
Speaker 2: you're the man. I want to be just like you everywhere,

532
00:28:17,800 --> 00:28:21,159
Speaker 2: And I'm thinking, heaf isn't even like himself. He's just

533
00:28:21,280 --> 00:28:26,920
Speaker 2: pretending smoke and mirrors. He was this broken child. Everyone

534
00:28:27,000 --> 00:28:29,600
Speaker 2: he had a crush on all liked somebody else. He

535
00:28:29,640 --> 00:28:33,239
Speaker 2: was a nerd, and his first wife cheated on him,

536
00:28:33,280 --> 00:28:36,040
Speaker 2: and he was just you know, had all of these

537
00:28:36,040 --> 00:28:38,239
Speaker 2: stepbacks in life, and I think he just over His

538
00:28:38,280 --> 00:28:41,120
Speaker 2: parents never showed him love, so he over compensated with

539
00:28:41,200 --> 00:28:46,440
Speaker 2: this creation and this fantasy, and he never really knew

540
00:28:46,480 --> 00:28:49,160
Speaker 2: how to love. He never really knew how to make love.

541
00:28:49,320 --> 00:28:53,320
Speaker 2: He supposed to be this master at all of these things,

542
00:28:54,400 --> 00:28:57,680
Speaker 2: and he wasn't. He had no idea. All he cared

543
00:28:57,720 --> 00:29:00,440
Speaker 2: about is himself. So if he didn't even have the

544
00:29:00,480 --> 00:29:06,040
Speaker 2: capacity to try and care or understand, you know, another person.

545
00:29:06,800 --> 00:29:10,520
Speaker 2: So it's hard. It's just he's like the sad little

546
00:29:10,560 --> 00:29:14,440
Speaker 2: boy that just was always a sad little boy. I

547
00:29:14,480 --> 00:29:17,640
Speaker 2: felt sorry for him all I go up until he died.

548
00:29:18,400 --> 00:29:22,200
Speaker 1: Well, that's common because I call it a trick guy.

549
00:29:22,240 --> 00:29:24,000
Speaker 1: And girls need to watch out for these trick guys.

550
00:29:24,000 --> 00:29:27,040
Speaker 1: They're the guys that are the dorks. So you think like, oh,

551
00:29:27,040 --> 00:29:30,280
Speaker 1: they're just a cute, little dorky nerdy guy, and you

552
00:29:30,440 --> 00:29:32,680
Speaker 1: think that that's gonna mean that they're gonna like treat

553
00:29:32,720 --> 00:29:34,719
Speaker 1: you so well or be like the good guy. But

554
00:29:34,760 --> 00:29:37,800
Speaker 1: that dorky nerdy guy sometimes is fucked up for the

555
00:29:37,840 --> 00:29:41,160
Speaker 1: fact that girls would never give him attention or sleep

556
00:29:41,200 --> 00:29:44,280
Speaker 1: with him in the earlier days, which does form how

557
00:29:44,360 --> 00:29:44,800
Speaker 1: men are.

558
00:29:44,960 --> 00:29:47,640
Speaker 2: Maybe Heff was just angry and took it out on

559
00:29:47,680 --> 00:29:48,160
Speaker 2: all of us.

560
00:29:48,240 --> 00:29:53,400
Speaker 1: I don't know, something something deep seated, you know, to show. Yeah,

561
00:29:53,400 --> 00:29:56,680
Speaker 1: well it's exerting power. I'm I'm, I'm gonna show them

562
00:29:56,680 --> 00:29:57,920
Speaker 1: and I'm the powerful one.

563
00:29:58,360 --> 00:29:59,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly.

564
00:30:12,000 --> 00:30:15,600
Speaker 1: Do you date now? That must be challenging or has

565
00:30:15,680 --> 00:30:18,400
Speaker 1: been challenging and trusting and trusting yourself.

566
00:30:19,280 --> 00:30:21,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, in the beginning, dating was hard. I would run

567
00:30:21,480 --> 00:30:25,840
Speaker 2: into situations where I felt controlled and manipulated. Still and

568
00:30:25,880 --> 00:30:28,240
Speaker 2: a lot of that was okay. It was like a

569
00:30:28,240 --> 00:30:31,600
Speaker 2: struggling musician, a struggling actor. So I'm thinking, oh my gosh,

570
00:30:31,600 --> 00:30:33,880
Speaker 2: here i am being controlled manipulated, and this time I'm

571
00:30:33,920 --> 00:30:36,400
Speaker 2: paying the bills like this is this is getting is

572
00:30:36,440 --> 00:30:41,760
Speaker 2: getting worse. So more more therapy and now you know

573
00:30:41,800 --> 00:30:47,200
Speaker 2: I'm dating in the relationships are much you know, more

574
00:30:47,200 --> 00:30:48,280
Speaker 2: healthy and happy.

575
00:30:49,200 --> 00:30:53,760
Speaker 1: Well again, I'm fine. Hallie literally said she first went

576
00:30:53,880 --> 00:30:56,120
Speaker 1: towards the same type of person, not realizing it might

577
00:30:56,160 --> 00:30:58,480
Speaker 1: be a different package. But it was a similar type

578
00:30:58,480 --> 00:31:00,600
Speaker 1: of person, so you have that in common, and then

579
00:31:00,720 --> 00:31:04,000
Speaker 1: had to intervene for in what she was looking at, like,

580
00:31:04,400 --> 00:31:06,200
Speaker 1: it's me, I'm the problem. It's me. I've got to

581
00:31:06,240 --> 00:31:08,840
Speaker 1: be looking at different partners.

582
00:31:08,680 --> 00:31:13,480
Speaker 2: Definitely. Yeah. Now I cannot tolerate anything less than nurturing.

583
00:31:14,720 --> 00:31:19,360
Speaker 1: And what about career? Now, so what is your own identity?

584
00:31:19,360 --> 00:31:21,120
Speaker 1: What do you do for a living. How do you

585
00:31:21,120 --> 00:31:23,320
Speaker 1: support yourself? What do you want to do? You're still young?

586
00:31:23,400 --> 00:31:24,720
Speaker 1: What do you want to be when you grow up?

587
00:31:26,400 --> 00:31:31,000
Speaker 2: My real job is I buy and flip properties. I've

588
00:31:31,360 --> 00:31:36,280
Speaker 2: redesigned homes. I like to add a lot of natural elements,

589
00:31:36,360 --> 00:31:41,080
Speaker 2: reclaim wood, and yeah, I just I'm a minimalist. So

590
00:31:41,560 --> 00:31:46,520
Speaker 2: I have about six properties between California and Hawaii. When

591
00:31:46,520 --> 00:31:49,920
Speaker 2: I was in therapy for five years, I remember the

592
00:31:49,920 --> 00:31:52,680
Speaker 2: therapist saying, you know, whatever you're doing, now, make sure

593
00:31:52,680 --> 00:31:54,320
Speaker 2: it has nothing to do with what you look like.

594
00:31:54,400 --> 00:31:56,760
Speaker 2: So I don't do any like social media ads or

595
00:31:56,800 --> 00:31:59,760
Speaker 2: anything to do with what I look like. It's all

596
00:32:00,320 --> 00:32:01,400
Speaker 2: mainly house stuff.

597
00:32:02,920 --> 00:32:04,440
Speaker 1: I do that a lot too. I love that.

598
00:32:05,200 --> 00:32:08,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's fun, it's creative. It's it's fun. It's yeah,

599
00:32:08,720 --> 00:32:09,840
Speaker 2: it's nice.

600
00:32:09,640 --> 00:32:13,840
Speaker 1: It's business, it's creative. There's an't you see transformation? When

601
00:32:13,880 --> 00:32:17,360
Speaker 1: you say you have six properties, you have six that

602
00:32:17,440 --> 00:32:20,800
Speaker 1: you keep or that you're flip. You're currently going to flip.

603
00:32:21,400 --> 00:32:23,920
Speaker 2: Two of them. I'm building homes and I'll sell the homes,

604
00:32:23,960 --> 00:32:28,280
Speaker 2: but the other four I'm keeping for now.

605
00:32:28,600 --> 00:32:31,640
Speaker 1: Did leave He didn't seem to leave Holly anything. She

606
00:32:31,680 --> 00:32:33,600
Speaker 1: wasn't married to him. Did you have a will. Did

607
00:32:33,600 --> 00:32:35,400
Speaker 1: you get married and at least have a prenup or

608
00:32:35,440 --> 00:32:35,760
Speaker 1: a will.

609
00:32:37,000 --> 00:32:39,440
Speaker 2: We had a prenup, but it was very unfair. The

610
00:32:39,440 --> 00:32:41,280
Speaker 2: first lawyer wouldn't sign it. I had to take it

611
00:32:41,320 --> 00:32:45,640
Speaker 2: to someone else to sign it. And I think because

612
00:32:45,640 --> 00:32:48,640
Speaker 2: I felt so trapped, I wanted to just start saving.

613
00:32:48,880 --> 00:32:51,120
Speaker 2: I got I became a playmate and got some playmate money,

614
00:32:51,120 --> 00:32:53,280
Speaker 2: and I just screw and grew, grew the money. I

615
00:32:53,360 --> 00:32:55,239
Speaker 2: learned how to DJ. During the day. I would fly

616
00:32:55,280 --> 00:32:57,880
Speaker 2: to Vegas and DJ and come straight back for movie night.

617
00:32:57,960 --> 00:33:00,440
Speaker 2: And so I saved up some money and opened a

618
00:33:00,480 --> 00:33:03,640
Speaker 2: secret LLC. I was able to buy a house, and

619
00:33:03,760 --> 00:33:05,960
Speaker 2: from that I bought another house and another house, and

620
00:33:06,040 --> 00:33:08,600
Speaker 2: so I was just I think back because I did

621
00:33:08,640 --> 00:33:11,600
Speaker 2: feel trapped, but that at that point I had millions,

622
00:33:11,640 --> 00:33:14,520
Speaker 2: and my mom said, you know, you can leave any

623
00:33:14,520 --> 00:33:16,560
Speaker 2: time you want, and I remember saying, like, I can't

624
00:33:16,640 --> 00:33:19,160
Speaker 2: leave him. He needs me. And this is you know, later,

625
00:33:19,360 --> 00:33:21,560
Speaker 2: like a couple of years before he died, and I

626
00:33:21,560 --> 00:33:22,920
Speaker 2: could have left and been fine.

627
00:33:22,960 --> 00:33:26,240
Speaker 1: And you had millions while living in the playboy mansion,

628
00:33:26,280 --> 00:33:27,200
Speaker 1: staying in the marriage.

629
00:33:27,720 --> 00:33:29,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I definitely did.

630
00:33:29,880 --> 00:33:32,600
Speaker 1: You weren't. Yeah, how did you earn millions while you

631
00:33:32,640 --> 00:33:33,280
Speaker 1: were a prisoner?

632
00:33:34,360 --> 00:33:39,040
Speaker 2: Right? I Like, I thought to myself because I would

633
00:33:39,040 --> 00:33:43,240
Speaker 2: see women that bought a range Rover or like lubaitons,

634
00:33:43,440 --> 00:33:45,880
Speaker 2: like girl, like buy a condo? What are you doing?

635
00:33:46,200 --> 00:33:50,120
Speaker 2: I'm so glad I had that mindset because yeah, I

636
00:33:50,200 --> 00:33:52,160
Speaker 2: saved and I bought a house. I ended up buying

637
00:33:52,160 --> 00:33:55,320
Speaker 2: another house. I was DJing. It was like seventy five

638
00:33:55,400 --> 00:33:55,880
Speaker 2: hundred dollars.

639
00:33:55,920 --> 00:33:58,440
Speaker 1: A wait, but this is aster you're saying, right, this

640
00:33:58,480 --> 00:34:00,840
Speaker 1: is during wait, he let you. But that's what I

641
00:34:00,840 --> 00:34:03,080
Speaker 1: don't understand. He was telling I'm reading that he gave

642
00:34:03,080 --> 00:34:05,440
Speaker 1: people one thousand dollars a week and people had a curfew.

643
00:34:05,800 --> 00:34:08,160
Speaker 1: So I would have thought, because men like to control financially,

644
00:34:08,400 --> 00:34:11,000
Speaker 1: how did he let you buy a house? Who is

645
00:34:11,080 --> 00:34:11,759
Speaker 1: like your lawyer?

646
00:34:11,800 --> 00:34:13,200
Speaker 2: They didn't know? He didn't know.

647
00:34:13,520 --> 00:34:16,239
Speaker 1: Well this is interesting, okay, so what the hell is

648
00:34:16,280 --> 00:34:18,040
Speaker 1: this part? Like this is the me like every time,

649
00:34:18,080 --> 00:34:19,600
Speaker 1: it's like a nugget that I'm like, we weren't even

650
00:34:19,600 --> 00:34:22,200
Speaker 1: talking about. So wait a minute. So this is and

651
00:34:22,239 --> 00:34:24,680
Speaker 1: this is what many women should do, like having a

652
00:34:24,719 --> 00:34:28,279
Speaker 1: nest egg. This is you would never invest in a

653
00:34:28,320 --> 00:34:30,719
Speaker 1: business that that someone said sixty percent chance it's going

654
00:34:30,800 --> 00:34:33,719
Speaker 1: to fail, and that's most marriages. So it's hard to

655
00:34:33,760 --> 00:34:35,960
Speaker 1: hear that women A obviously need to have a prenup,

656
00:34:36,280 --> 00:34:38,920
Speaker 1: B need to have their own Everybody doesn't need to

657
00:34:38,960 --> 00:34:41,279
Speaker 1: like put their money with somebody else's. So let's get

658
00:34:41,280 --> 00:34:44,640
Speaker 1: down to this now. How are you saving while under

659
00:34:44,680 --> 00:34:47,080
Speaker 1: the roof with Hugh Hefner, arguably one of the most

660
00:34:47,080 --> 00:34:49,560
Speaker 1: controlling men I've ever heard about, who doesn't want anybody

661
00:34:49,640 --> 00:34:52,440
Speaker 1: to have their own resources or job or time, how

662
00:34:52,440 --> 00:34:54,560
Speaker 1: are you saving millions of dollars while under this roof?

663
00:34:54,600 --> 00:34:56,520
Speaker 1: I need you to be specific. I need to understand.

664
00:34:57,000 --> 00:34:59,479
Speaker 2: Okay, Well, when I was first there, I was given

665
00:34:59,520 --> 00:35:04,239
Speaker 2: a thousand dollars every Friday, and which is nothing, you know,

666
00:35:05,880 --> 00:35:09,560
Speaker 2: for a twenty four seven job. And I remember the

667
00:35:09,600 --> 00:35:12,200
Speaker 2: twins and I we had to go into HEF's room

668
00:35:12,280 --> 00:35:15,400
Speaker 2: and basically beg him every Friday, have can we have

669
00:35:15,480 --> 00:35:19,359
Speaker 2: our allowance? And he would open the locked cabinet and

670
00:35:19,440 --> 00:35:22,360
Speaker 2: pull out an envelope with one hundred dollar bills and

671
00:35:22,400 --> 00:35:26,400
Speaker 2: be like one hundred, two hundred, one hundred to you

672
00:35:26,400 --> 00:35:28,319
Speaker 2: know for and just count it out for the three

673
00:35:28,360 --> 00:35:31,200
Speaker 2: girls and then hand us these stacks and.

674
00:35:31,680 --> 00:35:33,759
Speaker 1: That that alone is degrading, that you had to go

675
00:35:33,800 --> 00:35:35,600
Speaker 1: beg for the scraps every week like dogs.

676
00:35:35,760 --> 00:35:39,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, I felt like a hooker, right, Okay, That's how

677
00:35:39,040 --> 00:35:45,160
Speaker 2: I felt, And it was disgusting and demoralizing, and that

678
00:35:45,160 --> 00:35:49,279
Speaker 2: that kind of ritual lit a fire inside me to

679
00:35:49,320 --> 00:35:51,640
Speaker 2: where I'm like, I want to never have to do

680
00:35:51,680 --> 00:35:54,400
Speaker 2: this ever again. Whenever I'm away from the situation and

681
00:35:54,400 --> 00:35:55,880
Speaker 2: out of here, I want to make sure that I

682
00:35:55,960 --> 00:35:58,960
Speaker 2: never have to be in this kind of thing ever again.

683
00:35:59,560 --> 00:36:02,880
Speaker 2: And so I remember, have made me a playmate. I

684
00:36:02,960 --> 00:36:06,160
Speaker 2: made twenty five thousand dollars. I wrote twenty five thousand

685
00:36:06,160 --> 00:36:08,680
Speaker 2: on this little piece of paper, and every time I

686
00:36:08,680 --> 00:36:11,240
Speaker 2: would then I would start saving the allowance and barely

687
00:36:11,239 --> 00:36:13,560
Speaker 2: spending anything because we had no rent and all the things.

688
00:36:13,640 --> 00:36:15,640
Speaker 2: So I was just trying to save as much as

689
00:36:15,680 --> 00:36:17,799
Speaker 2: I could, and Heff would give us little extra things

690
00:36:17,840 --> 00:36:20,759
Speaker 2: here and there, and sometimes I would lie and say

691
00:36:20,760 --> 00:36:22,719
Speaker 2: it's for something, but I would just keep most of it.

692
00:36:22,800 --> 00:36:25,759
Speaker 1: And just like you have the Handmaid, the Handmaid like

693
00:36:26,560 --> 00:36:28,920
Speaker 1: figure out out, well, yeah, you have to lie.

694
00:36:28,800 --> 00:36:32,759
Speaker 2: You'd have to. It's like, you know, at the same time,

695
00:36:32,800 --> 00:36:36,160
Speaker 2: he's making four hundred thousand dollars for you know, an

696
00:36:36,160 --> 00:36:38,399
Speaker 2: episode or episode of The Girl's next Door and we're

697
00:36:38,440 --> 00:36:40,920
Speaker 2: making nothing. So I'm like, I gotta be smarter, smarter

698
00:36:41,000 --> 00:36:44,400
Speaker 2: at this, and I learned how to DJ. I remember

699
00:36:44,560 --> 00:36:46,719
Speaker 2: thinking like, I have no talent. I did a couple

700
00:36:46,760 --> 00:36:48,799
Speaker 2: of playmate things during the day where I showed up

701
00:36:48,840 --> 00:36:50,520
Speaker 2: and they give me nine hundred dollars.

702
00:36:51,000 --> 00:36:52,640
Speaker 1: And he allowed that, like how did you do not

703
00:36:52,719 --> 00:36:53,279
Speaker 1: tell it?

704
00:36:53,440 --> 00:36:56,000
Speaker 2: If it was in the parameters, which was far im

705
00:36:56,000 --> 00:36:58,359
Speaker 2: few in between. Usually the playmates were hired for night

706
00:36:58,400 --> 00:37:00,839
Speaker 2: things that I couldn't go to. But I learned how

707
00:37:00,880 --> 00:37:02,960
Speaker 2: to DJ, and then I got a job at the

708
00:37:03,000 --> 00:37:05,520
Speaker 2: hard Rock Hotel in Las Vegas and they paid me

709
00:37:05,600 --> 00:37:08,520
Speaker 2: seventy five hundred for an hour and a half, and

710
00:37:08,560 --> 00:37:10,640
Speaker 2: so I would try and go like on Saturday and

711
00:37:10,680 --> 00:37:12,279
Speaker 2: make it back before movie night. So I was like

712
00:37:12,320 --> 00:37:15,000
Speaker 2: saving all of that. And then because I was at

713
00:37:15,000 --> 00:37:18,200
Speaker 2: the Mansion, people paid attention to me. I know it's

714
00:37:18,640 --> 00:37:21,640
Speaker 2: just through half, of course, but I'm like, I'm just

715
00:37:21,640 --> 00:37:24,720
Speaker 2: going to use it to my advantage. Social media started

716
00:37:24,719 --> 00:37:28,880
Speaker 2: coming out on Instagram twenty fourteen. A company called Skinny

717
00:37:28,880 --> 00:37:31,840
Speaker 2: Bunny Tea asked me to promote so I'd be like

718
00:37:31,880 --> 00:37:34,439
Speaker 2: a bikini and holding the skinny bunny tea and they'd

719
00:37:34,440 --> 00:37:36,880
Speaker 2: pay me like seventy five hundred every time I posted

720
00:37:37,080 --> 00:37:40,320
Speaker 2: like the and it was like once or twice a week,

721
00:37:40,760 --> 00:37:43,319
Speaker 2: and I would just I would just start saving and

722
00:37:43,360 --> 00:37:46,120
Speaker 2: start saving. And then I had a company in Australia

723
00:37:46,120 --> 00:37:48,759
Speaker 2: I want to do a bikini line with me. And

724
00:37:48,800 --> 00:37:50,480
Speaker 2: then I had another woman that wanted to do a

725
00:37:50,560 --> 00:37:55,640
Speaker 2: laingerie company or a loungewear and so I'm just trying

726
00:37:55,680 --> 00:37:58,960
Speaker 2: all these different avenue doscinating and I feel like financial

727
00:37:58,960 --> 00:38:01,120
Speaker 2: abuse is a real thing and it sucks and it's hard.

728
00:38:01,120 --> 00:38:03,200
Speaker 2: And I have a friend right now that's in a

729
00:38:03,280 --> 00:38:07,920
Speaker 2: horrible marriage with this narcissist man who I keep telling you,

730
00:38:08,000 --> 00:38:10,880
Speaker 2: I'm like, save, do online stuff to be like an

731
00:38:10,920 --> 00:38:12,760
Speaker 2: online assistant because she has two kids.

732
00:38:13,040 --> 00:38:13,920
Speaker 1: And I just do.

733
00:38:13,920 --> 00:38:17,719
Speaker 2: Anything you can to save so you can leave him

734
00:38:17,719 --> 00:38:20,920
Speaker 2: if you need to. I think it's so important. And invest,

735
00:38:21,120 --> 00:38:24,000
Speaker 2: you know, I started investing tiny bits of money in

736
00:38:24,000 --> 00:38:28,480
Speaker 2: like cryptocurrency, so I just it's instead of spending my

737
00:38:28,560 --> 00:38:31,759
Speaker 2: time at the mansion wondering like what outfit I'm gonna wear,

738
00:38:32,000 --> 00:38:34,840
Speaker 2: or like how to decorate for a party. I'm like,

739
00:38:35,000 --> 00:38:37,960
Speaker 2: I need to be like financially literate.

740
00:38:38,320 --> 00:38:40,640
Speaker 1: And that was me on The Housewives. I had a

741
00:38:40,719 --> 00:38:42,880
Speaker 1: thousand dollars when I signed up. That was me on

742
00:38:42,880 --> 00:38:45,320
Speaker 1: The Housewives. Everyone else was worrying about facials and diamonds

743
00:38:45,560 --> 00:38:47,560
Speaker 1: and I was off to the races when it started,

744
00:38:47,760 --> 00:38:49,759
Speaker 1: like already like off to the races. But that's why

745
00:38:49,800 --> 00:38:51,720
Speaker 1: everyone was trying to play catch up with me for years.

746
00:38:52,280 --> 00:38:55,480
Speaker 1: You know, that's because everyone wants to show how rich

747
00:38:55,520 --> 00:38:55,879
Speaker 1: they are.

748
00:38:56,560 --> 00:39:00,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, what more? Women need? That mindset of just yeah,

749
00:39:00,080 --> 00:39:02,880
Speaker 2: I'm showing how rich you are, I think is another

750
00:39:02,920 --> 00:39:05,160
Speaker 2: part of the thing, like part of the problem. I

751
00:39:05,200 --> 00:39:07,879
Speaker 2: remember saving enough to get a Chanel bag was five

752
00:39:07,920 --> 00:39:09,719
Speaker 2: thousand dollars and I put it on and I'm like,

753
00:39:10,239 --> 00:39:13,120
Speaker 2: I feel nothing, Like where's the sparkly magic I'm supposed

754
00:39:13,160 --> 00:39:15,520
Speaker 2: to And so I'm like, this is dumb. I just

755
00:39:15,600 --> 00:39:19,480
Speaker 2: have this sitting here. And so I'm like, okay, Like

756
00:39:19,640 --> 00:39:23,560
Speaker 2: materialism is not going to be my answer to anything.

757
00:39:24,080 --> 00:39:28,640
Speaker 1: You're smart. You're smart, right, Like I.

758
00:39:28,719 --> 00:39:31,360
Speaker 2: Tried, and you know, hef did buy us a house.

759
00:39:31,560 --> 00:39:33,440
Speaker 2: He toward the end of his life, he did buy

760
00:39:33,480 --> 00:39:35,000
Speaker 2: a house in West Hollywood. It was like a five

761
00:39:35,040 --> 00:39:38,120
Speaker 2: million dollar house. Who's us half it myself?

762
00:39:38,360 --> 00:39:38,840
Speaker 1: Oh? Okay.

763
00:39:38,880 --> 00:39:44,560
Speaker 2: At that point he had sold the mansion and so

764
00:39:44,640 --> 00:39:49,600
Speaker 2: he could stay there until he died. But the mansion

765
00:39:49,680 --> 00:39:51,680
Speaker 2: was sold, and so he bought this house in case

766
00:39:51,800 --> 00:39:54,240
Speaker 2: anything went down and we had to leave or somewhere

767
00:39:54,320 --> 00:39:56,040
Speaker 2: for me to go if something happened to him. So

768
00:39:56,080 --> 00:39:57,160
Speaker 2: I did have that house when.

769
00:39:57,080 --> 00:40:00,359
Speaker 1: I left, and he left it to you. Yes, And

770
00:40:01,280 --> 00:40:03,239
Speaker 1: do you do you think he loved you?

771
00:40:04,400 --> 00:40:06,080
Speaker 2: I think he loved me the best way he knew

772
00:40:06,080 --> 00:40:07,200
Speaker 2: how you know, I.

773
00:40:07,200 --> 00:40:09,080
Speaker 1: Think you do more than any of the other people

774
00:40:09,080 --> 00:40:10,480
Speaker 1: who was with you. Think he like was loyal toy

775
00:40:10,600 --> 00:40:12,239
Speaker 1: in some different type of way.

776
00:40:13,239 --> 00:40:17,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think toward the end, toward the end, I

777
00:40:17,080 --> 00:40:20,640
Speaker 2: respected myself more. Toward the end, I got my implants

778
00:40:20,680 --> 00:40:23,279
Speaker 2: taken out, I stopped bleaching my hair, and I did

779
00:40:23,360 --> 00:40:26,919
Speaker 2: notice that he respected me. He respected me more. And

780
00:40:29,160 --> 00:40:32,920
Speaker 2: I would like to hope that Hugh Afner learned some

781
00:40:33,000 --> 00:40:38,160
Speaker 2: type of lesson and compassion or you know, don't chase

782
00:40:38,200 --> 00:40:41,400
Speaker 2: after the wrong things. But but I don't know, maybe.

783
00:40:41,160 --> 00:40:43,880
Speaker 1: Maybe well you were there at the end, like you

784
00:40:43,880 --> 00:40:48,800
Speaker 1: were there when he died, and so was he. I

785
00:40:48,840 --> 00:40:51,319
Speaker 1: don't remember. I didn't was he dying? Like was he

786
00:40:51,360 --> 00:40:53,160
Speaker 1: in or was he just do you know what I'm saying?

787
00:40:53,200 --> 00:40:55,600
Speaker 1: Was he in hospice or something? Or he just you

788
00:40:55,640 --> 00:40:57,000
Speaker 1: know what I mean? Like, did you know he was

789
00:40:57,040 --> 00:40:59,680
Speaker 1: about to die? Because when people are sort of in

790
00:40:59,719 --> 00:41:01,920
Speaker 1: hospit and like different people are walking through to like

791
00:41:02,000 --> 00:41:06,799
Speaker 1: say their last things, some people do hear people say

792
00:41:06,840 --> 00:41:09,080
Speaker 1: things that they've never heard, Like I was wanting that

793
00:41:09,160 --> 00:41:12,800
Speaker 1: from my father in hospice, and he was the exact

794
00:41:12,880 --> 00:41:15,040
Speaker 1: same way to till his last breath, Like I was

795
00:41:15,040 --> 00:41:16,680
Speaker 1: trying to get something that I was never going to get.

796
00:41:16,800 --> 00:41:19,719
Speaker 1: So what was that like for you? Was there some humanity?

797
00:41:19,760 --> 00:41:23,640
Speaker 1: Did you get some connection and like him realizing what

798
00:41:23,760 --> 00:41:25,879
Speaker 1: he had done or that it was fucked up? Or

799
00:41:25,920 --> 00:41:28,520
Speaker 1: did he become somebody? Did he have some realization?

800
00:41:29,400 --> 00:41:31,880
Speaker 2: I don't think that that he felt anything he did

801
00:41:32,080 --> 00:41:35,600
Speaker 2: was fucked up his whole life. I think because of

802
00:41:35,680 --> 00:41:41,440
Speaker 2: the narcissism, he just didn't believe that he did anything wrong.

803
00:41:42,600 --> 00:41:45,480
Speaker 2: He got sick pretty quickly. It was a urinary tract infection.

804
00:41:45,600 --> 00:41:50,520
Speaker 2: It was a regressive strain of equal A bacteria. Only

805
00:41:50,600 --> 00:41:53,160
Speaker 2: one antibiotic was sensitive to it, so we tried that

806
00:41:53,160 --> 00:41:57,480
Speaker 2: it didn't work. He went into sepsis. I you know,

807
00:41:57,520 --> 00:42:00,280
Speaker 2: we had to just start IVS and things on him.

808
00:41:59,760 --> 00:42:02,719
Speaker 2: And I remember asking him like, are you okay? And

809
00:42:02,760 --> 00:42:05,600
Speaker 2: he said, you know, I'm okay with kind of a

810
00:42:05,600 --> 00:42:08,200
Speaker 2: defeated tone, and that was the last thing he ever said.

811
00:42:08,400 --> 00:42:14,000
Speaker 2: He just yeah, I got worse and worse, and I

812
00:42:14,120 --> 00:42:15,919
Speaker 2: had to make these decisions at the end of his life.

813
00:42:15,920 --> 00:42:17,759
Speaker 2: It was hard because he never wanted to go to

814
00:42:17,800 --> 00:42:21,600
Speaker 2: a hospital and he said, I want to just die

815
00:42:21,640 --> 00:42:25,880
Speaker 2: in my bed. And so he went into sepsis, and

816
00:42:25,920 --> 00:42:29,160
Speaker 2: the doctor said, if he stays here, he's going to die,

817
00:42:29,480 --> 00:42:31,600
Speaker 2: but if he goes to the hospital, like maybe there's

818
00:42:31,600 --> 00:42:33,200
Speaker 2: a thirty percent chance of him living.

819
00:42:33,320 --> 00:42:33,640
Speaker 1: Wow.

820
00:42:33,840 --> 00:42:36,480
Speaker 2: And so I'm reading this advanced healthcare directive that somehow

821
00:42:36,520 --> 00:42:38,400
Speaker 2: I'm like, how am I named? Is? Hugh Hafner's like

822
00:42:39,320 --> 00:42:43,120
Speaker 2: the deciding person on this? And you at the time

823
00:42:44,360 --> 00:42:46,640
Speaker 2: when he died, I was thirty one.

824
00:42:47,200 --> 00:42:49,120
Speaker 1: Well okay, so you're thirty one and you're the person

825
00:42:49,160 --> 00:42:51,680
Speaker 1: that's deciding what he's whether he's going to take a

826
00:42:51,719 --> 00:42:54,200
Speaker 1: thirty percent chance or stay home. So let's hear this now.

827
00:42:54,400 --> 00:42:55,640
Speaker 1: It's insane.

828
00:42:56,320 --> 00:42:58,799
Speaker 2: I know. It said something about if I have a

829
00:42:58,880 --> 00:43:01,880
Speaker 2: terminal illness, Like I just want to stay home, but

830
00:43:01,920 --> 00:43:05,360
Speaker 2: if I can be saved, then take me somewhere or whatever.

831
00:43:05,440 --> 00:43:09,239
Speaker 2: So I'm like, okay, he could potentially be saved. It's

832
00:43:09,280 --> 00:43:11,920
Speaker 2: bacterial infection. Do we just take him? Do we what

833
00:43:11,960 --> 00:43:14,640
Speaker 2: do we do? He was so bad, you know, like, okay,

834
00:43:14,640 --> 00:43:16,680
Speaker 2: we might take him and just even moving it might

835
00:43:16,719 --> 00:43:21,480
Speaker 2: be so difficult and thirty percent chances of survival. I'm like,

836
00:43:21,560 --> 00:43:24,839
Speaker 2: I'm crying, and I stepped out of the room because

837
00:43:24,840 --> 00:43:26,160
Speaker 2: I didn't want him to hear any of this that's

838
00:43:26,200 --> 00:43:29,880
Speaker 2: going on. And I was talking to his assistant and

839
00:43:29,920 --> 00:43:33,360
Speaker 2: his estate attorney. And while I was trying to decide

840
00:43:33,360 --> 00:43:36,000
Speaker 2: this in the other room, one of the nurses came

841
00:43:36,040 --> 00:43:38,160
Speaker 2: into where I was and said, you know, he's gone.

842
00:43:39,760 --> 00:43:42,120
Speaker 1: Oh thank god, you didn't have to make that decision.

843
00:43:42,480 --> 00:43:45,560
Speaker 2: So he decided. Yeah, he decided for us.

844
00:43:45,600 --> 00:43:48,680
Speaker 1: But did you were you sad when he was dying

845
00:43:48,800 --> 00:43:50,799
Speaker 1: or like, were you kind of almost relieved? Like people

846
00:43:50,960 --> 00:43:52,839
Speaker 1: have weird thoughts that they're not supposed to be having

847
00:43:52,840 --> 00:43:55,799
Speaker 1: when someone's dying. That's been traumatic for them, So will

848
00:43:55,840 --> 00:43:58,560
Speaker 1: you kind of relieved that he died or like not

849
00:43:58,719 --> 00:44:00,359
Speaker 1: wishing it? But like, you know what I mean, were

850
00:44:00,400 --> 00:44:03,080
Speaker 1: you conflicted? Because I mean, this is crazy that you

851
00:44:03,160 --> 00:44:05,760
Speaker 1: had this experience with him and now you're the person

852
00:44:05,800 --> 00:44:07,720
Speaker 1: that he's left to make this decision and you're crying

853
00:44:08,840 --> 00:44:11,920
Speaker 1: and what were you crying? Why were you crying?

854
00:44:12,680 --> 00:44:16,480
Speaker 2: I think it all happened so fast, and the topic

855
00:44:16,520 --> 00:44:18,840
Speaker 2: of death is hard for me, so it was just

856
00:44:20,520 --> 00:44:24,440
Speaker 2: going through that again. And once he passed away, I

857
00:44:24,520 --> 00:44:26,160
Speaker 2: remember like, I don't even want to know what day

858
00:44:26,160 --> 00:44:27,680
Speaker 2: it is. I don't want to know what time it is.

859
00:44:28,320 --> 00:44:33,919
Speaker 2: And I felt guilty, which is strange. I felt like, oh,

860
00:44:33,960 --> 00:44:36,439
Speaker 2: maybe there's something we could have done differently for him.

861
00:44:36,560 --> 00:44:41,600
Speaker 2: And yes, it's weird, and I think it's how people

862
00:44:41,600 --> 00:44:44,080
Speaker 2: would feel if they were in a cult, you know,

863
00:44:44,080 --> 00:44:49,520
Speaker 2: and the leader died, you'd feel sad and confused and guilty.

864
00:44:51,400 --> 00:44:53,520
Speaker 2: And yeah, and it took time. I put out a statement,

865
00:44:53,520 --> 00:44:56,359
Speaker 2: a very positive statement, but it took time. It took

866
00:44:56,400 --> 00:44:59,800
Speaker 2: maybe five years to truly like peel it away and

867
00:45:01,120 --> 00:45:01,800
Speaker 2: and understand.

868
00:45:02,040 --> 00:45:05,640
Speaker 1: I believe that going through these things that are so

869
00:45:05,800 --> 00:45:09,440
Speaker 1: abnormal that you thought was normal is it takes a

870
00:45:09,520 --> 00:45:11,600
Speaker 1: long time for it to get out of your body,

871
00:45:11,760 --> 00:45:13,880
Speaker 1: like you could be away from it but like for

872
00:45:13,880 --> 00:45:18,520
Speaker 1: it to like on a cellular level. Leave it's very

873
00:45:18,600 --> 00:45:20,759
Speaker 1: you know how that goes with any like and death

874
00:45:20,840 --> 00:45:23,879
Speaker 1: is confusing anyway, like you don't have to two things

875
00:45:23,920 --> 00:45:26,480
Speaker 1: can be happening at the same time. You can think

876
00:45:26,520 --> 00:45:30,080
Speaker 1: he's a disgusting pig, but you also you're Some children

877
00:45:30,320 --> 00:45:33,120
Speaker 1: love parents that put out the cigarettes on them. They

878
00:45:33,120 --> 00:45:35,200
Speaker 1: want to go back to them like that happened. Like

879
00:45:35,640 --> 00:45:40,000
Speaker 1: so you can feel a feeling two conflicting feelings like

880
00:45:40,239 --> 00:45:41,200
Speaker 1: it's not binary.

881
00:45:41,760 --> 00:45:44,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely absolutely.

882
00:45:45,920 --> 00:45:49,000
Speaker 1: I'm speechless. Wow. So how does it feel to have

883
00:45:49,080 --> 00:45:52,200
Speaker 1: written the book? Did you get everything out that you

884
00:45:52,239 --> 00:45:54,400
Speaker 1: wanted to say? Did you forget things? Did you block

885
00:45:54,480 --> 00:45:58,799
Speaker 1: things out? And like, honestly are people judging you? Like

886
00:45:58,880 --> 00:46:00,239
Speaker 1: where where is all that?

887
00:46:01,239 --> 00:46:03,080
Speaker 2: Oh? Well, I feel like the book could have been,

888
00:46:03,360 --> 00:46:07,759
Speaker 2: you know, three times as long. But I you know,

889
00:46:07,840 --> 00:46:12,360
Speaker 2: I've I had stories and I crafted them together in

890
00:46:12,360 --> 00:46:14,959
Speaker 2: a way that I thought told it in the best way.

891
00:46:15,080 --> 00:46:20,520
Speaker 2: And the book has been healing. It's resonating with so

892
00:46:20,640 --> 00:46:23,600
Speaker 2: many people. I've had women reach out to me, so

893
00:46:23,640 --> 00:46:25,960
Speaker 2: many women reaching out like, oh, playboy was my dream.

894
00:46:26,000 --> 00:46:28,160
Speaker 2: And as I sit in my normal house in a

895
00:46:28,200 --> 00:46:30,880
Speaker 2: town no one's heard of in Indiana. I'm, you know,

896
00:46:30,920 --> 00:46:33,319
Speaker 2: grateful that it didn't happen for me, and thank you

897
00:46:33,360 --> 00:46:37,160
Speaker 2: and thanks for lifting the lid and being light. And

898
00:46:37,200 --> 00:46:38,960
Speaker 2: I'm going to have my daughter read this book. And

899
00:46:39,280 --> 00:46:40,680
Speaker 2: you know, it's the book I wish I have when

900
00:46:40,680 --> 00:46:44,080
Speaker 2: I was twenty one, because it was nothing, nothing like that.

901
00:46:44,360 --> 00:46:46,520
Speaker 1: I like it as a book for when someone who's

902
00:46:46,560 --> 00:46:49,279
Speaker 1: twenty one. But I like for you what you were

903
00:46:49,320 --> 00:46:51,799
Speaker 1: saying about your friend who's in that marriage. Like I

904
00:46:51,840 --> 00:46:55,120
Speaker 1: think that you're somehow like listening to you talk about

905
00:46:55,160 --> 00:47:01,280
Speaker 1: somebody in a bad relationship, prepare themselves, take care of themselves,

906
00:47:01,360 --> 00:47:03,760
Speaker 1: not just make some rash decision, because so many women

907
00:47:04,440 --> 00:47:08,040
Speaker 1: are controlled by a situation. And you brought up financial abuse,

908
00:47:08,040 --> 00:47:11,000
Speaker 1: which happens a lot and divorce, Like some people just

909
00:47:11,120 --> 00:47:13,880
Speaker 1: want to say uncle and get out, and they'll settle

910
00:47:13,880 --> 00:47:18,240
Speaker 1: for almost nothing because the the and it's usually the man, sorry,

911
00:47:18,600 --> 00:47:20,840
Speaker 1: is keeping the lights off, like they won't turn the

912
00:47:20,880 --> 00:47:22,919
Speaker 1: electric bill on, and you're like begging them, or they're

913
00:47:22,920 --> 00:47:25,640
Speaker 1: controlling the custody schedule. And I went through ten years

914
00:47:25,920 --> 00:47:29,120
Speaker 1: as a wealthy, successful woman who is you know, has

915
00:47:29,160 --> 00:47:32,799
Speaker 1: some power being tortured in a divorce. So like you can,

916
00:47:33,040 --> 00:47:36,760
Speaker 1: you can help women lock the door before they get robbed,

917
00:47:36,880 --> 00:47:40,360
Speaker 1: like just you know, just because you're if you're miserable, okay,

918
00:47:40,360 --> 00:47:42,759
Speaker 1: well get your shit organized. Like you sound like you

919
00:47:42,760 --> 00:47:45,440
Speaker 1: were sort of miserable and in something bad, but something

920
00:47:45,480 --> 00:47:47,000
Speaker 1: told you to be preparing yourself.

921
00:47:47,600 --> 00:47:51,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, absolutely, yeah, And I do really help to

922
00:47:51,239 --> 00:47:54,239
Speaker 2: help a man. Like when they read the book, and

923
00:47:56,000 --> 00:47:57,680
Speaker 2: you know, the end of the book, I talk about

924
00:47:58,040 --> 00:48:01,000
Speaker 2: these girls and I cannot read the end back without

925
00:48:01,040 --> 00:48:03,959
Speaker 2: crying because these girls would write into hef as young

926
00:48:04,000 --> 00:48:07,040
Speaker 2: as eleven years old and they would say, you know,

927
00:48:07,040 --> 00:48:11,279
Speaker 2: I got a playble white bedspread, and you know, what

928
00:48:11,320 --> 00:48:13,360
Speaker 2: does it take to be part of the mansion? Like

929
00:48:13,400 --> 00:48:15,120
Speaker 2: what does it take to be up there? Like one

930
00:48:15,160 --> 00:48:19,640
Speaker 2: day I'll be there, and like what does it take?

931
00:48:19,960 --> 00:48:22,840
Speaker 2: It's like you have to you have to lose yourself completely.

932
00:48:24,080 --> 00:48:27,600
Speaker 2: That's what it takes. And I don't recommend that to anybody.

933
00:48:28,920 --> 00:48:34,440
Speaker 1: But you found yourself now, yeah work in progress. Yeah wow.

934
00:48:34,760 --> 00:48:38,719
Speaker 1: And then and what about his family? So you said

935
00:48:38,760 --> 00:48:41,200
Speaker 1: he had a crazy family with his family growing up,

936
00:48:41,239 --> 00:48:43,920
Speaker 1: and then he has kids, which is like I don't

937
00:48:43,920 --> 00:48:46,640
Speaker 1: believe that. I can't believe he has kids, Like I don't.

938
00:48:46,680 --> 00:48:49,839
Speaker 2: I don't think he could either. Me. I don't think

939
00:48:50,120 --> 00:48:54,080
Speaker 2: he could either. He's he you know, he always said

940
00:48:54,080 --> 00:48:57,440
Speaker 2: to me, I'm not a good father. He said that

941
00:48:57,440 --> 00:48:59,680
Speaker 2: he didn't want the second set of kids, but it

942
00:48:59,719 --> 00:49:02,000
Speaker 2: was like having his own grandchildren, and you know, they

943
00:49:02,040 --> 00:49:03,839
Speaker 2: were coming in the room when he would act like

944
00:49:03,960 --> 00:49:06,960
Speaker 2: he was busy, and he just didn't know how to

945
00:49:07,000 --> 00:49:08,759
Speaker 2: be a dad, like I hate Yeah, I didn't know

946
00:49:08,760 --> 00:49:10,359
Speaker 2: how to connect. Didn't know how to be a dad.

947
00:49:10,920 --> 00:49:12,920
Speaker 2: It's hard. And I think he's just so used to

948
00:49:14,719 --> 00:49:17,080
Speaker 2: being gross with women his whole life. I remember Christy,

949
00:49:17,160 --> 00:49:19,319
Speaker 2: his daughter, who was CEO for so long, came into

950
00:49:19,360 --> 00:49:21,200
Speaker 2: the room when we're playing cards and kissed him like

951
00:49:21,520 --> 00:49:24,120
Speaker 2: you know, between cheek and mouth like here and and

952
00:49:24,160 --> 00:49:27,719
Speaker 2: then he's like yummy, and I'm just like I'm just

953
00:49:28,120 --> 00:49:32,160
Speaker 2: thinking ew. Like he he can't like switch his brain

954
00:49:32,239 --> 00:49:32,880
Speaker 2: to daughter.

955
00:49:34,440 --> 00:49:37,320
Speaker 1: Everything has to be transactional sounds like like yummy.

956
00:49:37,520 --> 00:49:39,600
Speaker 2: You don't say that to your daughter. That's gross?

957
00:49:39,840 --> 00:49:43,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, right, he didn't. Yeah, the difference between that's creepy him.

958
00:49:44,000 --> 00:49:46,120
Speaker 2: Its constantly imperv mode.

959
00:49:46,560 --> 00:49:48,719
Speaker 1: Yeah. Exactly what do they think of all of this?

960
00:49:48,840 --> 00:49:49,280
Speaker 1: Have they?

961
00:49:49,800 --> 00:49:49,880
Speaker 2: Have?

962
00:49:49,960 --> 00:49:53,279
Speaker 1: They expressed publicly disapproval of this book or Holly's book

963
00:49:53,360 --> 00:49:54,879
Speaker 1: or in general, or they're not even like.

964
00:49:56,760 --> 00:49:59,840
Speaker 2: No, I haven't. I spoke to Marston yesterday, and you

965
00:49:59,880 --> 00:50:03,040
Speaker 2: know his two youngest kids are closer in age to me,

966
00:50:03,680 --> 00:50:06,160
Speaker 2: so you know I really like Marsden care about him,

967
00:50:06,200 --> 00:50:10,839
Speaker 2: and yeah, I mean I don't have a bad relationship

968
00:50:10,840 --> 00:50:14,319
Speaker 2: with them. I know that Kimberly have ex wife made

969
00:50:14,360 --> 00:50:19,160
Speaker 2: some statements about defending him, and the first thing I

970
00:50:19,200 --> 00:50:22,160
Speaker 2: thought of was I met her once in person, but

971
00:50:22,200 --> 00:50:24,840
Speaker 2: my other interactions with her were all of her naked.

972
00:50:25,200 --> 00:50:29,120
Speaker 2: He had huge naked pictures of Kimberly, like in the

973
00:50:29,200 --> 00:50:32,600
Speaker 2: gym and in the library, and I'm thinking, like, if

974
00:50:32,600 --> 00:50:36,160
Speaker 2: that's not objectification, what is right? And how could you

975
00:50:36,200 --> 00:50:39,839
Speaker 2: defend a man that had your naked pictures all over

976
00:50:39,880 --> 00:50:42,520
Speaker 2: the house for anybody coming to a party to look at?

977
00:50:42,560 --> 00:50:45,040
Speaker 2: Your own children are coming in the house and staring

978
00:50:45,040 --> 00:50:47,560
Speaker 2: at their mom naked on the wall, Like, come on,

979
00:50:47,920 --> 00:50:50,920
Speaker 2: how how much longer can you defend this man? I

980
00:50:51,000 --> 00:50:51,680
Speaker 2: have no idea.

981
00:50:52,320 --> 00:50:56,880
Speaker 1: Wow, Wow, I mean I'm gonna cry. I feel for

982
00:50:56,920 --> 00:50:58,879
Speaker 1: you as a twenty one year old girl, I really

983
00:50:58,920 --> 00:51:02,279
Speaker 1: really do. So you're still so young and it's great

984
00:51:02,320 --> 00:51:04,239
Speaker 1: that you have so much of life ahead of you.

985
00:51:06,080 --> 00:51:09,640
Speaker 1: And yeah, I guess that was you and locking the

986
00:51:09,640 --> 00:51:11,879
Speaker 1: door now before you get robbed because it won't happen again.

987
00:51:13,160 --> 00:51:13,520
Speaker 2: Thank you.

988
00:51:14,080 --> 00:51:17,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, I hope that is the book doing incredibly well.

989
00:51:17,840 --> 00:51:20,960
Speaker 2: I just got word that it's a New York Times bestseller.

990
00:51:21,360 --> 00:51:27,680
Speaker 1: Yay, oh immediately amazing first week. Yeah all right, well, congratulations.

991
00:51:27,719 --> 00:51:31,399
Speaker 1: That means that you're you know, and you should reach

992
00:51:31,440 --> 00:51:33,239
Speaker 1: out to Holly and Bridget or maybe all of us

993
00:51:33,280 --> 00:51:34,839
Speaker 1: will have a conversation on here one time. I think

994
00:51:34,840 --> 00:51:37,560
Speaker 1: this is a topic, I really do.

995
00:51:37,719 --> 00:51:40,200
Speaker 2: I would love to come on here with them, with you, and.

996
00:51:41,280 --> 00:51:44,400
Speaker 1: I'll ask them because I think it reminds me of

997
00:51:44,520 --> 00:51:46,680
Speaker 1: situations I've been in where like people don't like each

998
00:51:46,680 --> 00:51:48,800
Speaker 1: other and they don't even really necessarily have a good reason,

999
00:51:48,840 --> 00:51:51,759
Speaker 1: and this guy has done so much damage. So you

1000
00:51:51,800 --> 00:51:55,160
Speaker 1: all have such a word to spread as women who

1001
00:51:55,239 --> 00:51:58,280
Speaker 1: all got sucked into something. Okay, yes, walking into it knowingly,

1002
00:51:58,360 --> 00:52:01,440
Speaker 1: but later you know, you could help young girls not

1003
00:52:01,480 --> 00:52:05,600
Speaker 1: get traumatized, and you'd you know, so anyway, I appreciate

1004
00:52:05,640 --> 00:52:08,000
Speaker 1: the conversation and really the being so open and honest,

1005
00:52:08,040 --> 00:52:10,279
Speaker 1: and congratulations on the book and on everything else.

1006
00:52:10,760 --> 00:52:12,680
Speaker 2: Thank you, I appreciate it. Thanks for having me.

1007
00:52:12,920 --> 00:52:19,960
Speaker 1: Amazing, awesome, have a great day, Thank you. Thanks bye.

1008
00:52:22,280 --> 00:52:27,319
Speaker 1: Wow that was something else. She was lovely. I was

1009
00:52:27,400 --> 00:52:29,600
Speaker 1: reading my I have multiple pages in front of me

1010
00:52:29,840 --> 00:52:34,640
Speaker 1: of the story. I was thinking this was like prostitution

1011
00:52:34,880 --> 00:52:37,600
Speaker 1: and going in there, it had to be strategic. And

1012
00:52:38,080 --> 00:52:40,880
Speaker 1: you know, I learn a lot because I mean, a

1013
00:52:40,960 --> 00:52:44,719
Speaker 1: twenty one year old girl, you know what, to me

1014
00:52:44,880 --> 00:52:47,200
Speaker 1: is kind of still a child, like it really really is.

1015
00:52:47,360 --> 00:52:48,960
Speaker 1: We could say whatever we want and you could be

1016
00:52:49,200 --> 00:52:52,239
Speaker 1: legal to vote, but like twenty one is really young.

1017
00:52:52,680 --> 00:52:55,160
Speaker 1: Like I mean, if I have assistants that are working

1018
00:52:55,160 --> 00:52:57,120
Speaker 1: here that are twenty four, pau wall be like they're babies,

1019
00:52:57,400 --> 00:53:01,719
Speaker 1: Like you know, not to be rude, but like you know,

1020
00:53:02,239 --> 00:53:03,920
Speaker 1: and a lot of them are way more babies than

1021
00:53:03,920 --> 00:53:05,080
Speaker 1: I was at that age because I grew up in

1022
00:53:05,120 --> 00:53:11,320
Speaker 1: a very abusive, fucked up alcohol ridden oblimia, gambling, physical abuse,

1023
00:53:11,400 --> 00:53:14,520
Speaker 1: being dragged, calling the cops like that doesn't count, Like, yes,

1024
00:53:14,640 --> 00:53:17,480
Speaker 1: I was mature because I was an adult when I

1025
00:53:17,520 --> 00:53:19,439
Speaker 1: was a kid. That you don't want that for anybody else.

1026
00:53:19,920 --> 00:53:23,160
Speaker 1: And so like these kids that get preyed upon by

1027
00:53:23,200 --> 00:53:27,680
Speaker 1: the Jeffrey Epstein's, by the Harvey Weinstein's, by the Hugh Hefner's,

1028
00:53:27,680 --> 00:53:29,960
Speaker 1: by all the scumbags that were at that party, many

1029
00:53:30,000 --> 00:53:35,960
Speaker 1: of them. I know, so I you know, I think

1030
00:53:36,000 --> 00:53:39,680
Speaker 1: it's an interesting conversation. I was fascinated that she was like,

1031
00:53:39,760 --> 00:53:44,200
Speaker 1: you know, squirreling her chestnuts, like she was hoarding her

1032
00:53:44,239 --> 00:53:46,440
Speaker 1: chestnuts as a squirrel while with him. That was when

1033
00:53:46,440 --> 00:53:48,719
Speaker 1: I was like, each time I have a conversation, like

1034
00:53:48,760 --> 00:53:51,080
Speaker 1: something comes out that these girls are so desensitized they

1035
00:53:51,080 --> 00:53:53,440
Speaker 1: don't even think it's like newsworthy, and I'm like, what

1036
00:53:53,480 --> 00:53:56,520
Speaker 1: the fuck? Like Holly too, so they didn't get paid

1037
00:53:56,840 --> 00:54:00,600
Speaker 1: to be on this show, Like crazy interesting, really really

1038
00:54:00,680 --> 00:54:04,400
Speaker 1: really interesting conversation. Wow, I'm like speechless. And then that

1039
00:54:04,480 --> 00:54:07,480
Speaker 1: these women turn against each other under the realm of

1040
00:54:07,520 --> 00:54:10,360
Speaker 1: a man leading a cult. It's crazy.