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Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts, radio News. I'm Stephen Carroll, and

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Speaker 1: this is Here's Why, where we take one new story

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Speaker 1: and explain it in just a few minutes with our

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Speaker 1: experts here at Bloomberg. This is pretty big.

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Speaker 2: It's in many ways the first really significant Supreme Court

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Speaker 2: rebuke of the administration, and this is a court that's

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Speaker 2: kind of gone out of its way to accommodate him

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Speaker 2: as much as possible.

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Speaker 3: You know, really can't over emphasize how big of a

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Speaker 3: blow this is for the Trump administration.

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Speaker 2: I think the Supreme Court just lowered the possibility of

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Speaker 2: a recession by a not insubstantial percentage.

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Speaker 1: It was a bombshell decision that blew up Donald Trump's

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Speaker 1: tariff strategy. The Supreme Court's move to strike down levies

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Speaker 1: imposed under the International Emergency Economic Powers Act has reverberated

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Speaker 1: across the global Act. To me, the Trump administration has

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Speaker 1: scrambled to replace the tariffs with a new levee on

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Speaker 1: a different legal basis, and the President has made his

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Speaker 1: views on the Court's ruling clear.

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Speaker 3: The Supreme Court's ruling on tariff's is deeply disappointing, and

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Speaker 3: I'm ashamed of certain members of the Court absolutely ashamed

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Speaker 3: for not having the courage to do what's right for

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Speaker 3: our country.

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Speaker 1: But that isn't the end of the story. Here's why

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Speaker 1: the Supreme Court didn't settle the tariff debate. Our Supreme

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Speaker 1: Court reporter Greg Store joins US Now for more. Greg.

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Speaker 1: The Supreme Court rules that President Trump didn't have authority

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Speaker 1: to impose tariffs under this particular emergency law, but it

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Speaker 1: also sent some questions back to lower courts to be decided.

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Speaker 1: What's left to be resolved.

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Speaker 2: Stephen, The biggest thing that people are waiting for want

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Speaker 2: to know about our refunds. The Supreme Court wasn't really

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Speaker 2: asked to decide that question. The lower courts hadn't yet

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Speaker 2: weighed in on it, so the Supreme Court just said

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Speaker 2: nothing about it. That's still to be resolved. Donald Trump

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Speaker 2: said immediately after the decision that there's going to be

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Speaker 2: a lot of litigation. He talked about as many as

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Speaker 2: five years of litigation over it. More than fifteen hundred

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Speaker 2: companies have already filed saying we want refunds of the

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Speaker 2: tariffs we paid. One of the dissenting justices, Brett Kavanaugh,

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Speaker 2: said it's going to be a mess sorting all that out.

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Speaker 2: Having said that, the normal rule is that if you

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Speaker 2: pay a tax that turns out you didn't have to

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Speaker 2: pay because it was unauthorized, the normal rule has tended

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Speaker 2: to be you get a refund for that. And we

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Speaker 2: haven't yet heard any substantive arguments from the administration as

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Speaker 2: to why these one hundred and seventy five billion dollars

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Speaker 2: in tariffs that were paid under the law shouldn't have

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Speaker 2: to be refunded to everybody. There will probably be some

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Speaker 2: given what the President has said, but we have to

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Speaker 2: wait to see how that will play out. When we

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Speaker 2: have to wait and see kind of how all the

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Speaker 2: court maneuvering occurs to figure out how long a process

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Speaker 2: it's going to be.

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Speaker 1: Okay, So that's one unresolved issue. What about the new

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Speaker 1: tariffs the White House has announced? Could they end up

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Speaker 1: back at the Supreme Course?

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Speaker 2: They certainly could. As you said, this decision was all

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Speaker 2: about this one law, which people call i EPA. It's

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Speaker 2: designed to give the president certain emergency economic powers, and

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Speaker 2: the court said, you don't have authority. The president doesn't

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Speaker 2: have authority under that law to enact tariffs. But there

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Speaker 2: are all these other statutes where pretty clearly the president

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Speaker 2: does have authority, And immediately after the decision, the President said,

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Speaker 2: I'm going to try to replace the ones that were

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Speaker 2: struck down, mostly under this separate law which people call

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Speaker 2: Section one twenty two, and that is designed to be

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Speaker 2: kind of a short term fix. Tariffs put in place

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Speaker 2: only for one hundred and fifty days, and it's supposed

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Speaker 2: to address what the law says are balance of payments. Now,

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Speaker 2: the President has talked about trade deficits as one reason

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Speaker 2: he put the IEPA tariffs in place. Balance of payment deficits,

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Speaker 2: people who study these things say are a different thing

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Speaker 2: that they are. And this law was designed to deal

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Speaker 2: with imbalances and currency exchanges because too many people might

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Speaker 2: be holding dollars, that sort of thing. And so there

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Speaker 2: are legal questions about whether the president actually has authority

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Speaker 2: to impose these tariffs under that law, and that is

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Speaker 2: going to be litigated. There are going to be probably

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Speaker 2: a multitude of lawsuits. We don't know how quickly that

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Speaker 2: will move, but I think you are right almost certainly

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Speaker 2: it will make it up to the Supreme Court sooner,

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Speaker 2: if not later.

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Speaker 1: Okay. In this case, it was a six' to three

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Speaker 1: vote against the. Presidents what did we learn from the

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Speaker 1: judgments about how The court might view future cases about

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Speaker 1: actions taken By President. Trump that's a good.

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Speaker 2: Question it was three and two of the justices in

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Speaker 2: the majority were Justices Donald trump. APPOINTED a key question

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Speaker 2: in the case was how much deference they give the

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Speaker 2: president in interpreting what the law, means and what the justices

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Speaker 2: in the, majority including Those trump, appointees, said was not

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Speaker 2: a whole. Lot because of the incredible economic impact of this,

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Speaker 2: Law we're going to apply something we've called the Major questions,

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Speaker 2: doctrine and what that means, is if a president's going

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Speaker 2: to take an action that has huge political or economic,

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Speaker 2: significance we're going to require a very clear statement From

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Speaker 2: congress that the president does indeed have that. Authority and IN,

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Speaker 2: nipa they said that clear statement was not, there and

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Speaker 2: it would seem that that same notion that The Major

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Speaker 2: questions doctrine that they're going to need a clear statement

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Speaker 2: From congress is going to apply whatever tariff statute they

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Speaker 2: are looking, at which doesn't mean that the president won't ultimately,

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Speaker 2: win but it will mean that he has to clear

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Speaker 2: that high bar of there being an especially clear statement By.

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Speaker 1: Congress, now the president was extremely critical of the justices

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Speaker 1: who ruled against his. Tariffs is The Supreme court's independence in?

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Speaker 2: Danger The Supreme court seemed to sort of assert its independence.

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Speaker 2: Here this is a court that has been pretty deferential

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Speaker 2: To Donald. Trump they have ruled in his favor on

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Speaker 2: more than twenty, issues the temporary questions about whether he

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Speaker 2: could do something right away while litigation goes, forward and

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Speaker 2: in this, case this was the first time they held

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Speaker 2: a full scale argument and issued a full scale ruling

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Speaker 2: on whether the president could do something that he really

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Speaker 2: wanted to, do and The court, said, no you can't do,

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Speaker 2: that you don't have that. Authority so people are looking

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Speaker 2: at this as a moment where The Supreme court is

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Speaker 2: saying there are places we are going to draw a

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Speaker 2: line with this. President doesn't mean we're not going to

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Speaker 2: let him do a whole lot of other, things firing,

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Speaker 2: people withholding funding for, things changing immigration, rules but in

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Speaker 2: this particular, case we're Saying congress has to, act he

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Speaker 2: doesn't have the. Authority and Greg.

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Speaker 1: In the past few days as, well we also saw

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Speaker 1: some of these justices attend The state of The union.

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Speaker 1: Speech it looked like a reasonably cordial. EXCHANGE i wonder

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Speaker 1: what your view was on both what The president said

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Speaker 1: and how the justices were in the chamber while receiving

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Speaker 1: some criticism from The.

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Speaker 2: President it was a really remarkable, scene just because it

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Speaker 2: was a lot less than some of us were expecting going.

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Speaker 2: In immediately after the, decision The president really derided the

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Speaker 2: justices in the. Majority he called them, fools, lapdogs, unpatriotic

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Speaker 2: bunch of other. Things and in The congressional chamb The

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Speaker 2: House chamber with for the justices sitting right, there his

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Speaker 2: criticism was far more. Muted didn't say anything personally about.

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Speaker 2: Them he called the decision disappointing and very, unfortunate but

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Speaker 2: really really toned down his, rhetoric perhaps thinking about the

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Speaker 2: image it would create if he were standing there while

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Speaker 2: the justices couldn't respond berating. Them he chose not to do,

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Speaker 2: that although he did talk about what he sees as

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Speaker 2: the importance of.

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Speaker 1: Tariffs Craig, storm Our Supreme court. Reporter thank you for

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Speaker 1: more explanations like this from our team of three thousand

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Speaker 1: journalists and analysts around the. World go To bloomberg dot

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Speaker 1: com slash. Explainers I'm Stephen, carroll this is here's. Why

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Speaker 1: i'll be back next week with More thanks for. Listening