Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news, Prime Minister, just as
Speaker 1: you're about to leave for the G seven, Israel's carried
Speaker 1: out what it describes as a preemptive strike on Iranian
Speaker 1: nuclear targets. Two hundred fighter jets, more than three hundred bombs,
Speaker 1: the site struck, including homes. Would you say Israel is
Speaker 1: justified in the action it's taken.
Speaker 2: Well, I'm very concerned about the situation that is developing,
Speaker 2: and it's obvious that for a long time we've had
Speaker 2: grave concerns about the nuclear program that Iran is putting together,
Speaker 2: and we absolutely recognize as Roel's right to self defense.
Speaker 2: We the UK were not involved in this attack, and
Speaker 2: we're urging all sides to de escalate and negotiate as
Speaker 2: the way forward here, and obviously we're talking to allies
Speaker 2: about that. We have been this week. We are intensively
Speaker 2: talking to allies today.
Speaker 1: In March, US national intelligence made it public that they
Speaker 1: did not believe Iran was developing nuclear weapons.
Speaker 3: So has something changed in the assessment since then.
Speaker 2: Well, I won't go into the intelligence assessments, but we
Speaker 2: are gravely concerned. I've just had a call with President
Speaker 2: mccron and Chancellor Mertz to discuss the situation, and we
Speaker 2: are all on the same page in the sense of saying, look,
Speaker 2: the nuclear program is a real cause for concern. We're
Speaker 2: all saying de escalate in relation to this incident, but
Speaker 2: none of us were involved in the actual attack.
Speaker 1: Does I mean you're also gravely concerned about the fact
Speaker 1: that Israel has taken this very made this very big
Speaker 1: move preemptive military action. I mean you're concerned about Iran's
Speaker 1: nuclear program, You're also concerned about Israel's choice of action.
Speaker 2: Well, I'm concerned about escalation, of course, and I'm going
Speaker 2: to speak to Prime Minister Nettaya who shortly after this interview,
Speaker 2: so obviously that'll be a topic of discussion. But I
Speaker 2: do recognize Israel's right to self defense, There's no doubt
Speaker 2: about that.
Speaker 4: But I am very concerned about.
Speaker 2: The escalation of this situation, which is why, along with
Speaker 2: Germany and France, were really clear that the escalation is
Speaker 2: what is needed here.
Speaker 1: Would the UK therefore help defend Israel from Iranian attack
Speaker 1: as it has done before.
Speaker 2: Well, this is happening in real time as we speak,
Speaker 2: and I'm not going to go into operational matters. If
Speaker 2: you'll forgive me for that, but as I say, the
Speaker 2: principle of Israel's right to self defense is absolutely clear
Speaker 2: and we stand by that. But this is a fast
Speaker 2: moving situation, as you will understand.
Speaker 1: At the same time, we have the ongoing situation in Gaza,
Speaker 1: the suffering. They're something that you have called intolerable and appalling.
Speaker 1: Three weeks ago, you made this very strong statement with
Speaker 1: Canada and France which called for three things, for how
Speaker 1: master release the hostages, for Israel's military operations in Gaza
Speaker 1: to cease, and for Israel to let aid into Gaza
Speaker 1: in accordance with the UN, engage with the UN in it.
Speaker 1: None of those things have happened. What action will you
Speaker 1: take now, Well.
Speaker 2: You'll have seen that we've taken action in relation to
Speaker 2: sanctions three weeks ago, but also more recently, and it
Speaker 2: is important that we consider what other options that we have.
Speaker 4: I always think in these situations it's.
Speaker 2: Better to act with allies, which is why we're coordinating
Speaker 2: what we're doing. But the situation in Gaza is absolutely intolerable.
Speaker 2: The aid arrangements are not adequate, nor are they going
Speaker 2: to be adequate, and so that's why we've been consistently
Speaker 2: calling for a return to the ceasefire.
Speaker 4: Of course, the release of the hostages.
Speaker 2: The remaining hostages have been there a very long time
Speaker 2: in awful circumstances, but we must get that aid in
Speaker 2: at speed, at volume, and the current arrangements are not
Speaker 2: going to deliver that.
Speaker 4: And have been very clear.
Speaker 2: In our messaging all this and our coordination all this,
Speaker 2: and our willingness to take action such as sanctioning.
Speaker 1: Which you've already done and as I said, there's been
Speaker 1: no change to the situation. An action you could take
Speaker 1: is recognizing a Palestinian state, and President macrom is leading
Speaker 1: on a conference at the UN next week on that
Speaker 1: very subject.
Speaker 2: Well, we got long standing policy as a Labor party
Speaker 2: is labor government that recognition should be part of a process,
Speaker 2: and so that's our approach. Precisely what's going to happen
Speaker 2: in the conference next week, I think is unclear. And
Speaker 2: obviously now the immediate issue the Israeli attack overnight, and
Speaker 2: so there are a lot of moving parts at the moment.
Speaker 2: But the principle, the principle we've always held is that
Speaker 2: the only long term solution in relation to Palestine in
Speaker 2: the Middle East is a two state solution, and although
Speaker 2: it seems further off now than perhaps it's seen for
Speaker 2: some time, we have to be clear that is the
Speaker 2: only path through that recognition the right part of the
Speaker 2: process has always been our long standing policy.
Speaker 1: So why would this not be the moment because the
Speaker 1: action you've taken so far has not resulted in a
Speaker 1: change on the ground, and in the West Bank there's
Speaker 1: an expansion of settlements, and there are Palestinians being expelled
Speaker 1: from their homes, and there are the extremist actions of
Speaker 1: Israeli settlers. Britain has a historic responsibility, doesn't it, And
Speaker 1: recognizing of Palestinian state was in your manifesto. Do you
Speaker 1: want to be the British Prime Minister who delivers that.
Speaker 4: Well, we do have a special responsibility.
Speaker 2: You're absolutely right about that and I'm clear and our
Speaker 2: manifesto was clear about our position on recognition. But it
Speaker 2: must be the appropriate part of the process that will
Speaker 2: alleviate the situation, which it doesn't exist.
Speaker 3: At the moment. There is no peace process.
Speaker 4: Well, that's why it must be part of the process.
Speaker 2: Obviously, as you would expect, we are talking to ally
Speaker 2: like minded countries about this very issue, but it must
Speaker 2: be in accord with the manifesto, part of a process
Speaker 2: that leads to a.
Speaker 4: Two state solution.
Speaker 2: It's the outcome that matters in this hugely given the
Speaker 2: intolerable situation.
Speaker 3: Can you see the.
Speaker 1: Moment where you might, in fact, well, can you see
Speaker 1: the moment where you might have to do things independently
Speaker 1: of any process, because there isn't one. And indeed, the
Speaker 1: Israeli government is saying openly that it's trying to prevent
Speaker 1: the expand the establishment of a Paralestinian state through settlement expansion.
Speaker 2: Well, that's why we're talking to international partners about what
Speaker 2: can be done, what should be done, what's the appropriate path,
Speaker 2: and we'll continue to do that.
Speaker 4: I strongly believe that we are.
Speaker 2: Better, more effective when we're acting with allies with others
Speaker 2: at the same time. That's why we took the approach
Speaker 2: we did on sanctions, and it's the same mindset that
Speaker 2: I bring to this.
Speaker 1: Speaking of sanctions, let's turn to Russia. And you've worked
Speaker 1: very very hard on to to help the US administration
Speaker 1: see Ukraine slightly differently, to push them further towards a
Speaker 1: greater action on Russian and you'll be seeing President Trump
Speaker 1: at the G seven summit.
Speaker 3: Do you understand what he is trying to do on Russia.
Speaker 2: I am clear in my own mind that President Trump
Speaker 2: wants to bring that an end to the conflict.
Speaker 4: I have no doubt about.
Speaker 2: That, and we are moving closer. I hope to some
Speaker 2: sort of ceasefire, some sort of deal Ukraine. President Zelenski
Speaker 2: has been absolutely clear that he wants that unconditional cease fire. Putin,
Speaker 2: in my ivy, was dragging his heels, which is why
Speaker 2: I think it is important for us, together with others,
Speaker 2: to say it will be consequences if Russia doesn't come
Speaker 2: forward to an unconditional cease fire.
Speaker 1: And it seemed that you had it, did seem that
Speaker 1: you had you you thought you had persuaded President Trump
Speaker 1: on that when you went to Kiev, when you and
Speaker 1: the other European leaders called him, you said, working with
Speaker 1: President Trump, we're going to ramp up sanctions, and then
Speaker 1: not thing came of it. President Trump talked tough for
Speaker 1: a while about Vladimir Putin and then stopped. So is
Speaker 1: he going to pressure mister Putin?
Speaker 2: Well, there are discussions going on the whole time, and
Speaker 2: we're working with the Ukrainians, working with the US, as
Speaker 2: you would expect with a trusted ally in this the
Speaker 2: path to piece is rarely straightforward in any conflict. But
Speaker 2: I do believe that that is what President Trump wants.
Speaker 2: That is absolutely what the Ukrainians want peace. This is
Speaker 2: a conflict of war that's been waged on them by
Speaker 2: the aggressor, which is Russia, and so we are doing
Speaker 2: everything we can to bring about that outcome. But as
Speaker 2: I say, the path from conflict to piece is rarely straightforward.
Speaker 2: But I'm absolutely determined that the UK will play a
Speaker 2: leading part, and I'm very pleased that the UK has
Speaker 2: seemed to be able to play that leading part in.
Speaker 4: Resolving the conflict.
Speaker 2: And I remind myself always that not only is this
Speaker 2: about the sovereignty of Ukraine, which of course it is,
Speaker 2: but it is also about our values in Europe, and
Speaker 2: it's also about the direct impact it has back here
Speaker 2: at home in the United Kingdom, because whether it's energy
Speaker 2: or the cost of living, familist communities, individuals in the
Speaker 2: UK have been impacted by what's happening in Ukraine, and
Speaker 2: therefore we need to redouble our efforts to bring about
Speaker 2: a lasting piece on a temporary piece, a lasting piece.
Speaker 1: Are you saying that you do believe that President Trump
Speaker 1: will bring in sanctions on Russia, new sanctions, the kind
Speaker 1: of measure that might pressure put In to come to
Speaker 1: the negotiating table.
Speaker 2: He said on a number of occasions that's what he
Speaker 2: will do, and we're obviously closely aligning and talking to him.
Speaker 1: He also said he did in the war in twenty four hours.
Speaker 2: Well, as I said, the if you look at any
Speaker 2: conflict historically, the past to piece has never been straightforward.
Speaker 2: But the determination is there, the intent is there, and
Speaker 2: I do believe we're making progress, but it must be
Speaker 2: a lasting piece.
Speaker 1: You have led on this idea of the Coalition of
Speaker 1: the Willing and a reassurance force for postwar Ukraine. Have
Speaker 1: you got a commitment from the US that it would
Speaker 1: provide air cover for that future force to deter Russia
Speaker 1: from attacking Ukraine in the future.
Speaker 2: Well, President Trump has clearly said he'll have our back,
Speaker 2: and I've always been clear that there must be a
Speaker 2: US element to this. But on the other hand, I
Speaker 2: do think that Europe needs to step up in its
Speaker 2: own right, in its own collective security and self defense.
Speaker 2: And that's why, along with President macarn we have led,
Speaker 2: as it were, on the coalition of the willing, which
Speaker 2: is to go, if you like it, at the pace
Speaker 2: of those that want to go furthest rather than at
Speaker 2: the pace of those who are the most cautious, and
Speaker 2: to start some of the planning that is going to
Speaker 2: be needed. Then the further we get into the planning
Speaker 2: of what's actually going we needed in the air, in
Speaker 2: the sea, and possibly on land, the more convinced I
Speaker 2: am this is the military planning that that is planning
Speaker 2: needs to go on now. It's planning that can't go
Speaker 2: on after the event, so that we're ready for whatever happened. Obviously,
Speaker 2: there's a lot of moving parts. There's a lot of
Speaker 2: questions that aren't answered yet, but the military planning is
Speaker 2: getting to quite an advanced stage.
Speaker 3: Now.
Speaker 1: Having your back, as President Trump has said, is not
Speaker 1: the same as saying I will provide US air cover.
Speaker 1: Bloomberg's been told that the US is refusing to commit
Speaker 1: to air cover for a post warforce.
Speaker 2: Well, I'm not going to get into the private discussions
Speaker 2: that we are having, but what I would say is
Speaker 2: this that there are no two countries that act as
Speaker 2: closely together on defense, security and on intelligence sharing as
Speaker 2: the US and the UK, and that aspect of our
Speaker 2: relationship is a strong today as it's ever been, and
Speaker 2: my commitment to it is their President Trump's commitment to
Speaker 2: it is there. We've discussed it between ourselves, so that
Speaker 2: is an unshakable link between our two countries.
Speaker 1: It does make it difficult, though, doesn't it for you
Speaker 1: to and would you be prepared to put us to
Speaker 1: put British troops on the ground as part of a
Speaker 1: post war force in Ukraine if there wasn't US air
Speaker 1: cover to protect them?
Speaker 2: Well, I've always said there needs to be US protection.
Speaker 2: I have said we would be willing to put our
Speaker 2: troops on the ground, but there has to be that
Speaker 2: US backstock if you like.
Speaker 3: So if it's not there, what happens to the worst
Speaker 3: or force.
Speaker 2: We are discussing this, but I have no reason to
Speaker 2: believe that the US and the UK wouldn't act together
Speaker 2: as we'd done historically for many many years, as we
Speaker 2: are doing every single day of the week. Our teams
Speaker 2: are in constant touch with each other. As I say,
Speaker 2: we must never lose sight of the fact that the
Speaker 2: US and the UK are as close as any two
Speaker 2: countries on defense security and the intelligence that we share
Speaker 2: with each other.
Speaker 1: There's another live bilateral issue, which is the state of
Speaker 1: your trade agreement and the hope that you will implement
Speaker 1: it in the timeframe you yourself set was two weeks,
Speaker 1: which would take us to next Wednesday. So will it
Speaker 1: be implemented in that timeframe.
Speaker 2: We're in the final stages of implementing now. I'm very
Speaker 2: pleased that we reach that agreement. It was a huge
Speaker 2: relief to car manufacturing those working in the sector, particularly
Speaker 2: JILR workers that I went to see before we started
Speaker 2: the negotiations, and I went to see immediately after negotiations,
Speaker 2: and so this is measured in jobs protected, jobs created
Speaker 2: by this deal. We are at the implementation stage, but
Speaker 2: we're at the end of that process, and I hope
Speaker 2: that we can complete.
Speaker 4: It pretty soon.
Speaker 1: Now is that the same as within the two weeks
Speaker 1: by next Wednesday?
Speaker 2: Oh, I'm hoping that we will complete it pretty soon.
Speaker 2: I mean, it's important that we do. But we're making
Speaker 2: good progress. There's nothing ex affected in the implementation and
Speaker 2: so we haven't got any hiccups or obstacles.
Speaker 3: Why isn't it done yet?
Speaker 2: Because there are both sides agreed, what they would do
Speaker 2: in order to implement and so we're working through what
Speaker 2: we the UK have to do, what the US is
Speaker 2: going to do so we can implement it.
Speaker 4: That was as we envisaged not.
Speaker 1: Long after the G seven sumit. You'll have the NATO
Speaker 1: summit coming up, and there there is a very specific
Speaker 1: new ask, which is that the US administration says is
Speaker 1: NATO itself says is to spend five percent of GDP
Speaker 1: on defense, understood to be by the year twenty thirty two,
Speaker 1: three and a half percent on core defense spending.
Speaker 3: Will you be committing to that?
Speaker 2: Well, let me go through what we've already committed to,
Speaker 2: which is obviously two point five percent of GDP being
Speaker 2: spent on defense by twenty twenty seven twenty eight. I
Speaker 2: think that's earlier than most people thought we would commit to,
Speaker 2: and that's the biggest sustain increase in defense spending since
Speaker 2: the Cold War. With an ambition then to go to
Speaker 2: three percent in the next Parliament set that all out
Speaker 2: alongside our Strategic Defense Review. I'd sept the proposition. I've
Speaker 2: advanced the proposition about the importance of NATO. Our Strategic
Speaker 2: Defense Review is very much NATO first, and that all European.
Speaker 4: Countries need to step up.
Speaker 2: There's been a sort of criticism that Europe hasn't carried
Speaker 2: its fair share of the burden.
Speaker 4: I think that's right.
Speaker 2: So I've said to European allies we need to do
Speaker 2: more on spend on capability and cooperation. Obviously, the precise
Speaker 2: wording that will be agreed that NATO is still a
Speaker 2: matter of some negotiation. Well, what I'm really clear about
Speaker 2: is that NATO has been the cornerstone of our defense
Speaker 2: for eighty plus years. It is the most important successful
Speaker 2: military alliance that's ever been and I think it's important
Speaker 2: for that summit in just over a week's time to
Speaker 2: be a real show of unity and to show our
Speaker 2: responsibility not just to reflect on the last eighty years
Speaker 2: of NATO, but to play our part in ensuring that
Speaker 2: we continue peace in Europe.
Speaker 1: And that's all NATO, and that's the broad picture. But
Speaker 1: there is now this very specific loss and your current commitment,
Speaker 1: as your current ambition, is for three percent of GDP
Speaker 1: spent on defense by the year twenty thirty four in
Speaker 1: the next parliament. So could it be your ambition by
Speaker 1: the time of this summit to raise that to three
Speaker 1: and a half percent, because if you don't, you can't
Speaker 1: really claim to be the leading European nation in NATO.
Speaker 2: Well, I had Mark Rotter, the Sexuary General of NATO,
Speaker 2: here in this room on Monday to discuss how together
Speaker 2: we would go into this summit. And there's still discussions
Speaker 2: going on as to price precisely what the wording of
Speaker 2: what the.
Speaker 4: Commitment will be.
Speaker 2: But I mean, he was very clear to me that
Speaker 2: he welcomed our uplift to two point five percent. It
Speaker 2: was very pleased that we had done that. It was
Speaker 2: very pleased with a strategic defense, It's all good.
Speaker 1: It's just a long way from what he and the
Speaker 1: US says everyone's going.
Speaker 3: To agree to this within weeks. Forget week, We're going
Speaker 3: to be a very difficult summit.
Speaker 2: To NATO, not just in our troops but also our
Speaker 2: nuclear commitment to NATO. We're the only country that commits
Speaker 2: our nuclear capability to NATO. And so I think he
Speaker 2: would recognize NATO recognizes that the UK makes a huge
Speaker 2: contribution to NATO. And I am absolutely determined that that
Speaker 2: summit in just over a week will be a huge
Speaker 2: success and an opportunity to show the strength together that
Speaker 2: we have as NATO allies, but also to send a
Speaker 2: very clear message to our adversaries, which is equally important
Speaker 2: in what is a more unstable world and I think
Speaker 2: we've seen for many, many years.
Speaker 1: Finally, let's return to the UK and the plans that
Speaker 1: you've just set out for national renewal for a new
Speaker 1: phase of your government. There are some concerns that the
Speaker 1: growth picture is not necessarily going to with the forecast
Speaker 1: going to support your spending plans. And there is a
Speaker 1: group of people that Bloomberg have looked into company filings
Speaker 1: and they've seen that thousands of company directors have left
Speaker 1: the country, relocating out of the UK in the last year.
Speaker 1: Is this a group of people that you can really
Speaker 1: afford to use? Don't you need to have those people
Speaker 1: here to look at the opportunities for investment?
Speaker 3: Might you consider an investor visa?
Speaker 2: Well, let me put this in the context because obviously,
Speaker 2: and I won't go over this at great detail, but
Speaker 2: we inherited a complete mess at the election. Almost everything
Speaker 2: was broken, the economy, public services, you name it. We
Speaker 2: had to take difficult but right decisions in the budget,
Speaker 2: and that, if you like, was year one of this
Speaker 2: labor government, which was clear up the mess, take the
Speaker 2: difficult but necessary decisions. We're now very clearly moving into
Speaker 2: sort of phase two, which is what the spending Review
Speaker 2: ushers in, which is being clear what's the benefit from this,
Speaker 2: what's the yield?
Speaker 4: Where are you putting your money?
Speaker 2: And I'm really proud that we're rolling out a program
Speaker 2: of real labor values in terms of investment, whether that's
Speaker 2: things like say as well.
Speaker 1: So might investors be part of it? It's just like,
Speaker 1: is it something you're considering.
Speaker 2: I want more investors to come into the country. I
Speaker 2: want top talent to come into the country. But I
Speaker 2: would just push back a little because we've had record
Speaker 2: investment into the UK since the last election. We've just
Speaker 2: had London Tech Week where we had some of the
Speaker 2: most forward leading investment investors and tech companies absolutely singing
Speaker 2: the praises of the UK and why now is the
Speaker 2: right time to invest in them.
Speaker 1: Is also lost about a quarter of a million jobs
Speaker 1: since since the autumn, so it's not all as rosy
Speaker 1: as we actually.
Speaker 2: I mean five hundred thousand more people in work than
Speaker 2: at the date of the last election, and the.
Speaker 1: Actual since since you raise taxes in the in the autumn.
Speaker 1: This is the Bloomberg analysis that a quarter of a
Speaker 1: million jobs have been lost.
Speaker 2: If he looked at the number of people in work,
Speaker 2: it is five hundred thousand more than it was. If
Speaker 2: you look at the commitment and spending Defense Strategic Review,
Speaker 2: there's thirty thousand jobs in nuclear submarines size well that
Speaker 2: we announced earlier this week, there's ten thousand jobs. And
Speaker 2: my job is to make sure that good and well paid,
Speaker 2: secure jobs are there and to attract that investment and
Speaker 2: for international investment. I do think this is a really
Speaker 2: important point and Bloomberg will understand this almost better than anyone.
Speaker 2: Those global investors have a choice as to which country
Speaker 2: they put their money in. They chose not to put
Speaker 2: their money into the UK for many years before the election.
Speaker 2: Now we've had record inward investment. That is because they've
Speaker 2: got confidence in what we're doing. They're putting their money in,
Speaker 2: and that to me speaks volume.
Speaker 1: Final thought, is President Trump coming in September for his
Speaker 1: state visit.
Speaker 2: Oh, he'll be coming in obviously, the Palace will all
Speaker 2: organize the dates.
Speaker 4: But President Trump will be coming for his state visit
Speaker 4: and in the autumn, and that is really good well,
Speaker 4: the Palace will do it.
Speaker 3: But it is here.
Speaker 2: Well I hope so yes, But as I say, i'll
Speaker 2: leave it, I want to take over the job of
Speaker 2: the Palace. It's their job to set out exactly the
Speaker 2: dates of the invitation. But I'm really pleased that we
Speaker 2: will be able to showcase the close relationship we have
Speaker 2: between the UK and the US. That's historically a close relationship,
Speaker 2: and this will be a historic second visit for President
Speaker 2: Trump and we're all looking forward to welcoming him here.
Speaker 3: Prime Minister, thank you very much.
Speaker 4: Thank you.