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Speaker 1: Quody digs with Joseph's gotten more. You know, one of

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Speaker 1: the things that will absolutely send me into a tail spin,

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Speaker 1: and I'm sure many of you guys can identify with this,

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Speaker 1: is if I cannot find my wallet and if I

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Speaker 1: can't find my phone. I hate to admit that, but

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Speaker 1: that's just the nature of the world that we're living in.

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Speaker 1: And you know, many times, God bless her, Kimmy will

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Speaker 1: grab my wallet for me, and you know, when we're leaving,

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Speaker 1: we're heading out the door, and of course I'm spinning

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Speaker 1: around the house almost out of my mind trying to

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Speaker 1: find it, and of course she has it. But I

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Speaker 1: want to talk to you about a case today that

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Speaker 1: actually involves a wallet that was found floating in the water.

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Speaker 1: Oh and also a phone, a phone that was owned

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Speaker 1: by young men that was in the hands of someone else.

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Speaker 1: By the way, did I mention the young man well

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Speaker 1: sound dead floating in the water in Barcelona, Spain. I'm

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Speaker 1: Joseph Scott Morgan and this is body Backs. As all

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Speaker 1: of our friends know, Dave, I am a college professor

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Speaker 1: and unfortunately, one of the things I have to do

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Speaker 1: on a regular basis when I walk into a lecture

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Speaker 1: is this. This is how. This is how I open

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Speaker 1: up my lecture. Almost it's unavoidable. I do it almost

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Speaker 1: every day. I walk in and I say, okay, everybody,

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Speaker 1: put your phones up. That's how I start almost every

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Speaker 1: one of my lectures. I need it on a loop.

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Speaker 1: I'm just going to wear like a tape recording around

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Speaker 1: my neck, you know, with a speaker that just kind

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Speaker 1: of broadcasts it out. That way, I won't have to

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Speaker 1: waste oxygen and saying it, because it's these things are

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Speaker 1: so addictive. They go with us everywhere we go, and

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Speaker 1: the generation that exists now, you know, is heavily dependent. However,

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Speaker 1: I will say this, I am chief among sinners as well.

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Speaker 1: I carry this thing with me all over the place

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Speaker 1: because people, you know, I think that it's critical that

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Speaker 1: I get the last bit of information I can get

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Speaker 1: all the time and consume it and stuff it in

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Speaker 1: my gord. Life used to be so much simpler before technology, Dave,

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Speaker 1: And you know, I don't know, I'm not trying to

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Speaker 1: make some kind of grand social statement here. It's just

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Speaker 1: a source of irritation for me, as you can.

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Speaker 2: You know, when our world and broadcasting, when pagers came

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Speaker 2: along in the mid late eighties when they were being used.

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Speaker 2: You had too. You had the ones that actually had

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Speaker 2: a voice on them, where you could, you know, somebody

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Speaker 2: could message you by voice, or then you had the

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Speaker 2: ones that were cool where it would just pop up

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Speaker 2: and give you a number to call.

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Speaker 1: Yep.

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Speaker 2: I had a boss who he was the most profane man,

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Speaker 2: and it was like yeah, and he would text, he

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Speaker 2: would he would screen these things into your pager. It

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Speaker 2: didn't matter. You could be in church, you know, and

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Speaker 2: the most vulgar scenes would come bouncing out of this thing.

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Speaker 2: And so I finally started taking my battery out and

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Speaker 2: putting it around, backwards, putting it in. And when they

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Speaker 2: would why didn't you get the page, why don't you

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Speaker 2: answer it? Oh, my page's right here. Oh it's not working.

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Speaker 2: Something's wrong. And I take it out and they look

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Speaker 2: at it and go, well, try a new battery. Put

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Speaker 2: a new battery in. Okay, there it is. When it

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Speaker 2: happened again, Well there's something wrong with his pagriot's eating batteries.

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Speaker 1: You know.

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Speaker 2: Anyway, I hated those things, but I did. They were

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Speaker 2: the precursor of the phone, you know.

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Speaker 1: At these things are a millstone around our necks.

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Speaker 2: They are, but they're also they're entertainment, Joe. They're not

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Speaker 2: just this. But we're talking about Jimmy Gracie and a

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Speaker 2: student at the University of Alabama, a twenty year old

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Speaker 2: guy who is the chaplain for his fraternity. He is

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Speaker 2: looked upon as a mentor to the younger students and

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Speaker 2: an all around good guy. His grades are phenomenal, his

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Speaker 2: friendships are phenomenal, his parents are phenomenal. This is a

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Speaker 2: good young man. And for his spring break, he is

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Speaker 2: on his way to Barcelona, Spain, to spend it with

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Speaker 2: some friends who are studying overseas for a semester. That's

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Speaker 2: how Jimmy Gracie ends up in Barcelona. And yes, I

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Speaker 2: did say Bartholona, because that's how you say.

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Speaker 1: Yes Bartha Barcelona.

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Speaker 2: And so I sound like Cindy Brady saying it that way, did.

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Speaker 1: You for Spanish pronunciation? Yeah, it's in Catalonia. You have

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Speaker 1: to make that there you go, yeah, if yeah, there,

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Speaker 1: you got to be correct.

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Speaker 2: But anyway you look at it, what we have is

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Speaker 2: we have the story of a twenty year When we

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Speaker 2: started covering it, twenty year old student from the University

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Speaker 2: of Alabama, missing in Spain. That was how we began

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Speaker 2: the report, and the report was he was last seen

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Speaker 2: at a bar with He was at a bar with

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Speaker 2: his friends at Shacko, which is a top ten night

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Speaker 2: spot around the world. Club Shacko known around the world

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Speaker 2: for night spot stuff. I didn't know they had a listing,

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Speaker 2: but they do and it's on there, so they say.

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Speaker 2: He is seen reportedly talking to an American girl inside Shacko.

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Speaker 2: His friends decide to go on back to the airbnb

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Speaker 2: they're renting for the week while they're there, but Jimmy

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Speaker 2: stays behind without them. Now there is a little bit

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Speaker 2: of miscommunication here. He either stayed behind intentionally because he's

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Speaker 2: talking to the girl, or he got separated from his friends,

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Speaker 2: but either way, his friends went back to the airbnb,

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Speaker 2: Jimmy was still at the club. Now, in many cases

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Speaker 2: that we cover in Europe, there are CCTV. There's cameras everywhere, yes,

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Speaker 2: and they're like flock cameras we have here, but instead

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Speaker 2: of for driving for license plates, there for people, you know.

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Speaker 2: But in this particular place there are not so many

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Speaker 2: in this one particular spot in Europe apparently, But we

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Speaker 2: do have a picture of Jimmy at three o'clock in

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Speaker 2: the morning talking to somebody outside Shako. I leave it

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Speaker 2: there because he went missing after that, Joe. And when

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Speaker 2: we first started covering the case, it was his dad

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Speaker 2: is on the way, his mom's on the way. They're

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Speaker 2: headed to Bartholona. They're going to find their son who

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Speaker 2: is missing. Katie Britt, United States Senator from Alabama, she's involved.

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Speaker 2: We've got the consulate over there. We've got everybody involved

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Speaker 2: in the case of a twenty year old college student

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Speaker 2: who went missing Saint Patrick's day, well, early morning of

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Speaker 2: Saint Patrick's day, so he when we started covering it,

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Speaker 2: we knew there's going to be updates, but the updates

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Speaker 2: that we got were weird, shocking, not normal. You mentioned

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Speaker 2: it right off the top. Cell phone wallet, now, Joe,

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Speaker 2: the first report we got was not that his wallet

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Speaker 2: was found. The first report we got is that somebody

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Speaker 2: had his cell phone. We don't know where Jimmy is,

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Speaker 2: but we know where his cell phone is because it's

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Speaker 2: right over here. The police have it because they arrested

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Speaker 2: this guy, not for any crime with Jimmy, but he's

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Speaker 2: got Jimmy's phone. Now, Joe, I don't know if it's

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Speaker 2: a communication issue, a language barrier. But you have a

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Speaker 2: guy missing, you have a guy with his phone. Immediately,

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Speaker 2: I'm putting two and two together because the phone doesn't

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Speaker 2: just jump out of one guy's and into another guy's

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Speaker 2: hand with something happening in between. And this other guy

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Speaker 2: who now has Jimmy's phone did something that caused him

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Speaker 2: to be arrested by police. Yeah, so what does that

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Speaker 2: tell you?

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Speaker 1: It tells me that they're they're Yeah, I guess we

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Speaker 1: could count it up to miscommunication or time delay or whatever.

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Speaker 1: You you know, I caught a lot of flack over this,

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Speaker 1: over this case from the moment it kicked off. I

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Speaker 1: got called by multiple networks wanting me to appear, and

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Speaker 1: I obliged them. I obliged them by appearing, and I'm

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Speaker 1: glad to do it because well, I'm dad, I'm college professor.

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Speaker 1: This is the age group that I deal with on

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Speaker 1: a regular basis. I want I want him found, all right,

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Speaker 1: And uh, it was really amazing the level of vitriol

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Speaker 1: that I received. And look, I mean we get it

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Speaker 1: every every every time we do something. You'll never please everybody,

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Speaker 1: you know, if if you're if that's gonna be your standard,

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Speaker 1: You're gonna have a problem. But here's here's where it

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Speaker 1: kind of splits. The vitriol I was receiving was over

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Speaker 1: on the continent, okay, and I was hearing things like

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Speaker 1: he's he doesn't even know where How do you say Barcelona?

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Speaker 1: That's the way you're pronouncing it with speciulal annunciation. Uh,

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Speaker 1: doesn't even know where it is. Betty's never even left Alabama. Well, no,

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Speaker 1: I've been to a lot of places.

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Speaker 2: And what is the song, I've never been to Spain?

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Speaker 1: There you go, that's right. I do know this. I Uh,

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Speaker 1: I can put two and two together, uh and try

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Speaker 1: to come up with some kind of understandable timeline. You know,

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Speaker 1: they went so far as it's let's say, let me standard.

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Speaker 1: Let me see usual suspects here. First off, that I

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Speaker 1: was a racist because I implied that, you know, that they

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Speaker 1: were not up to snuff as it were. First off,

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Speaker 1: I didn't know Spain was a race. You need to

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Speaker 1: go back to geography class. And secondly, that I viewed

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Speaker 1: them as some kind of backwater or something that was

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Speaker 1: incapable of doing doing good police work or forensics work. Well,

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Speaker 1: what you're saying doesn't make any sense, all right. That's

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Speaker 1: where the communication problem arises in a case like this.

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Speaker 1: And plus I have a real awareness, acutely aware of

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Speaker 1: what happens to many of our citizens when they go overseas.

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Speaker 1: I might remind you that I was standing outside the courthouse,

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Speaker 1: the Federal courthouse, mind you, in Birmingham, Alabama, when Vanderschlut

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Speaker 1: was brought for his first appearance in regards to Natalie Holloway.

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Speaker 1: So yeah, I kind of have my finger on the

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Speaker 1: pulse of things relative to how our citizens are treated

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Speaker 1: many times when you go overseas. So when you're saying

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Speaker 1: things like, yeah, somebody else had his phone, but there's

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Speaker 1: no connection to this young man being found floating dead

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Speaker 1: in the water, I'm gonna have questions. I'm sorry. You know,

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Speaker 1: you're gonna have to get used to it. That's the

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Speaker 1: reality of it. So you know, the way this thing

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Speaker 1: was lining up just from Jump Street Dave did not

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Speaker 1: make sense to me one iota of sense. And I

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Speaker 1: knew from the beginning that his parents were fully on board,

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Speaker 1: vested they wanted answers. I don't know many many of

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Speaker 1: us can, but you know, I think about my own son,

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Speaker 1: I think about other families where I've heard there these

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Speaker 1: horrible stories. Imagine being thousands of miles away from your

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Speaker 1: child and they're missing, and you want answers and who's

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Speaker 1: gonna who's going to advocate for you when you get

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Speaker 1: over there. And from the beginning, from the beginning, I

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Speaker 1: was hoping that the FBI was going to step in,

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Speaker 1: that we were going to have because you know, no

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Speaker 1: matter where you go in the world, if we have

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Speaker 1: an embassy, uh there there is going to be some

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Speaker 1: kind of liaison that can connect you with the FBI.

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Speaker 1: And I was really hoping that they were going to

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Speaker 1: be there on ground to advocate for the family. Sounds

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Speaker 1: like they may may have been there, not really sure

201
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Speaker 1: at this point in time, but you know, we're just

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Speaker 1: supposed to take it on faith that whatever they decide

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Speaker 1: to do that is the Spanish authorities that it is

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Speaker 1: going to be absolutely sterling. Well didn't come down with

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Speaker 1: the last drop of rain. You're going to have to

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Speaker 1: prove it to me. Prove it to me in what

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Speaker 1: you do, not in what you say, Brother David. In

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Speaker 1: Jimmy Gracie's case, I think my biggest concern was once

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Speaker 1: he was in fact found from a forensic standpoint, I

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Speaker 1: was hoping that a very thorough job was going to

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Speaker 1: be done in his post wartem examination, because Dave, there

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Speaker 1: are so many intricacies here involved in a case like

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Speaker 1: this where you have what we at least understand is

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Speaker 1: a perfectly healthy young man. Healthy young men don't just simply,

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Speaker 1: you know, fall over dead. That the truth was going

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Speaker 1: to be arrived at. That's all I'm asking for here.

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Speaker 1: I just want scientific truth. And unfortunately it's at this

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Speaker 1: point in time, as we are laying the sound down

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Speaker 1: this one caveat, we don't have all of the data,

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Speaker 1: and there have been multiple, you know, outlets from internationally

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Speaker 1: as well as in our country in the United States,

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Speaker 1: that have said that there may be more to this. Well,

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Speaker 1: I want to hear what the officials in Spain have

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Speaker 1: to say about this specifically, and I don't want it

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Speaker 1: to be cluttered. I don't want it to be confusing.

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Speaker 1: I want the data laid out so that we can

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Speaker 1: understand it. And I know that their ways might not

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Speaker 1: be our ways, but there is a scientific way of

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Speaker 1: doing things and that should be that should be the

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Speaker 1: bell weather for everything else.

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Speaker 2: There's the right way and the wrong way for everything.

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Speaker 2: And again, when you have a missing twenty year old

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Speaker 2: and somebody is arrested in possession of missing twenty year

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Speaker 2: old's phone and you are able to say, yeah, but

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Speaker 2: he had nothing to do with it, to do with what.

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Speaker 2: We don't even know what happened to guy's missing. How

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Speaker 2: can you eliminate him as a possible suspect when you

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Speaker 2: don't even know where the guy is? And let's go.

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Speaker 2: I'm running out of the timeline very quickly. But I got

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Speaker 2: a lot of questions about the time here based on

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Speaker 2: what and this is based on us covering this story

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Speaker 2: as it was going on. Again, remember Joe and I

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Speaker 2: were both covering this case when Jimmy Grace he was missing,

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Speaker 2: and we were trying to bring attention to help. You know,

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Speaker 2: other Americans in the area. Are people familiar with the

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Speaker 2: work that we do beyond just body bags, both Nancy

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Speaker 2: Grace and Crime Stories and all the other shows you

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Speaker 2: were on some overseas, just drawing attention to this because

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Speaker 2: we've got a twenty year old kid missing, Let's find him.

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Speaker 2: So we've got Jimmy Gracy outside of Shako at three

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Speaker 2: o'clock in the morning. He is seen on camera. Okay,

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Speaker 2: cameras capture him walking toward the waterfront along the marina.

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Speaker 2: He appears to be alone unaccompanied at that time. Authority

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Speaker 2: save video indicates he approached the edge near the rocks

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Speaker 2: and water, and moments later they investigators believe that Jimmy

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Speaker 2: Gracy fell into the Mediterranean Sea. So backing it up,

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Speaker 2: friends realized he never reported never return back to the airbnb. Okay,

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Speaker 2: we're talking the morning of March seventeenth. Last scene at

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Speaker 2: three am outside the bar. All of his friends are

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Speaker 2: back at the Airbnb. They wake up in the morning,

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Speaker 2: Jimmy's not here. The search begins. Immediately personal items are

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Speaker 2: recovered from Jimmy. His wallet is found flowed in the water.

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Speaker 2: I believe we were recording a show when that happened.

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Speaker 1: Joe, Yeah, we were. I can I interject something here

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Speaker 1: real quick about wallets and bodies. I've had a lot

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Speaker 1: of water born bodies over the years where people are

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Speaker 1: fully clothed. I to the best of my recollection, I

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Speaker 1: don't ever recall a wallet coming out of and for

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Speaker 1: young men, uh, you know, and old dudes like me

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Speaker 1: and you, we carry our wallet, you know, in our

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Speaker 1: pocket right now i'd be the front pocket, back pocket. Oh,

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Speaker 1: by the way, I'll insert this here. I always carry

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Speaker 1: my wallet in my front pocket. You know why because

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Speaker 1: I've been going to Europe and there's pickpockets everywhere. So

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Speaker 1: that's something I learned early on.

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Speaker 2: So I have a big cane at mind that goes

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Speaker 2: down my belt bucket because I'm a redneck. There you go.

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Speaker 1: Chrome be slapping. So yeah, most of the time, with

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Speaker 1: like items, particularly like wallets, you'd be surprised at how

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Speaker 1: adherent they will come in pockets and kind of anchored

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Speaker 1: in there when clothing gets wet. Now, I suppose that

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Speaker 1: it could float out, but I would lean more toward

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Speaker 1: the idea of a wallet being found with a body.

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Speaker 1: And here's something that has not been spoken to. I

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Speaker 1: don't know what the contents were of his wallet, okay,

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Speaker 1: And what I mean by that was did we have

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Speaker 1: was it missing money? How much money? Did he have

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Speaker 1: any kind of ID credit cards? Were they there? You know,

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Speaker 1: I'd want to know that and try to assess that

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Speaker 1: all we get is wallet, fine, and it's his, so

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Speaker 1: obviously have some way to tie it back to him.

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Speaker 1: But it's floating in the water, and that's and then

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Speaker 1: you couple that also with the fund issue, Dave, and that,

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Speaker 1: of course, as an investigator, piques my interest.

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Speaker 2: If your phone's not in your hand, it's in your pocket.

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Speaker 2: If you're a guy, you know, we don't traditionally carry purses.

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Speaker 2: And if we're okay, let's just move back to this timeliner.

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Speaker 2: I'm going to get lost, and I apologize because this

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Speaker 2: really grinds my gears when I heard that the wallet

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Speaker 2: was found in the water. The only way a wallet

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Speaker 2: normally ends in the water where it's not on a

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Speaker 2: body is when the thief who took it is rifling

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Speaker 2: through it and he throws it in the water to

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Speaker 2: get rid of it. Got to get rid of the evidence.

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Speaker 2: You do only get caught with the evidence. And of course,

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Speaker 2: the idiot with Jimmy's cell phone very well could have

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Speaker 2: bought it from somebody on the street that he knows

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Speaker 2: is a criminal who sold him the phone, you know,

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Speaker 2: I mean, there are a lot of ways, but that

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Speaker 2: phone is attached. It is Jimmy Gracie's phone, So whoever

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Speaker 2: has it has a direct link to Jimmy. Even if

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Speaker 2: it's through two other people, there's a direct link. You

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Speaker 2: don't just find it on the street. Not like this anyway.

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Speaker 2: Back to the timeline, So we find the wallet in

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Speaker 2: the water. Police review surveillance foot and focus on search

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Speaker 2: efforts along the shoreline in harbor. Now, remember how very

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Speaker 2: specific they were about seeing Jimmy on video on camera

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Speaker 2: outside of Shako the nightclub, talking to somebody, and then

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Speaker 2: they're very specific about watching them walk toward the water alone.

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Speaker 2: Everything after this is it is reported. Police said, we're

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Speaker 2: not being told exactly what's on it. We're giving a

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Speaker 2: paraphrase of what police have said they see. I'm not

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Speaker 2: saying anything's wrong with that. I'm just saying there's a

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Speaker 2: different way of speakage here. You know, March seventeenth, police

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Speaker 2: are reviewing footage and they say they focus their efforts

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Speaker 2: on the shoreline. Now we're now at March nineteenth. Now,

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Speaker 2: when did Jimmy go missing after three am March seventeenth

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Speaker 2: in the morning. We're now have gone all the way

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Speaker 2: through the seventeenth, all the way through the eighteenth, the

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Speaker 2: entire day and night. So we're now dealing with the

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Speaker 2: day of March nineteenth. Jesseph Scott Morgan, yep, and Jimmy

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Speaker 2: Gracie's body is recovered from the water near the Port

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Speaker 2: Olympic area. The location is consistent with where he was

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Speaker 2: last seen on video. So why is that not the

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Speaker 2: first place they looked and why didn't they find him

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Speaker 2: there on March seventeenth.

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Speaker 1: I don't know, because, you know, one of the things

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Speaker 1: that jumped to mind for me if you if you

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Speaker 1: look at the day, if you look at the way

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Speaker 1: this place is kind of set up. It looks like

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Speaker 1: a protected harbor. You can see the boats, you know,

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Speaker 1: the rescue boats where they're kind of tooling around, and

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Speaker 1: they look like and they've got divers on them and

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Speaker 1: all this sort of thing. And there's there's a marina there,

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Speaker 1: so it's kind of a harbored area. It's got kind

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Speaker 1: of a spit of land that goes out, you know,

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Speaker 1: and it looks like that this is where, you know,

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Speaker 1: you get out into open waters from there. And I

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Speaker 1: was thinking, well, did tidal flow have anything to do

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Speaker 1: with this, the rise of the tide, the tide moving out,

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Speaker 1: you know, trying to understand those tables, you know how

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Speaker 1: that works. And then the specter always rises for me

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Speaker 1: when you have a body, even in an entrapped area

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Speaker 1: like that, is there anything that the body could get

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Speaker 1: hung up on. Essentially. You know, we have that happened

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Speaker 1: in the South a lot a lot of our waterways.

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Speaker 1: We've got brush that's beneath the water. And I'm not

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Speaker 1: saying it probably doesn't exist in this location. It looks

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Speaker 1: like it's rather heavily trafficked. So what what happened to

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Speaker 1: his remains in the interim? Why were they not spotted

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Speaker 1: any sooner? And you know, this is I hate to

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Speaker 1: say this, but many times what you will happen, what

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Speaker 1: will happen with the dead, is that they will initially

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Speaker 1: kind of drown and sink, okay, and then as they

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Speaker 1: change post mortem, they'll begin to float to the top.

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Speaker 1: We really haven't had that that amount of time for

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Speaker 1: that sort of thing to occur, all right, because this

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Speaker 1: is you talked about the time frame, and it's kind

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Speaker 1: of a tighter window, so you wouldn't have this kind

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Speaker 1: of gaseous build up, you know, and that sort of

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Speaker 1: thing that occurred. So I've been how long I think?

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Speaker 1: How long would that take?

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Speaker 2: Joe?

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Speaker 1: Well, a lot of it's gonna, A lot of it's

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Speaker 1: gonna and we're in a Mediterranean environment here, so it's

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Speaker 1: probably considerably warmer there than it is. We're in an

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Speaker 1: area around the ocean, but still to this point in time,

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Speaker 1: it's not it's not summertime conditions though at this point,

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Speaker 1: all right, which would speed this up quite a bit.

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Speaker 1: It would have taken even a longer period of time.

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Speaker 1: This and a lot of this is deepended upon the

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Speaker 1: water temperature, which, by the way, we do not know

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Speaker 1: at this point in time. But you know, those are

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Speaker 1: some of the things that that I was kind of considering.

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Speaker 1: You know, is this something if he if we see

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Speaker 1: him adjacent and we don't know how long it took

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Speaker 1: the cops to request the CCTV imagery, which is you know,

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Speaker 1: it's not a big ask, you know, And this is something,

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Speaker 1: as you well stated, Dave, Europe and most European countries

390
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Speaker 1: are some of the most visualized areas in any location

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Speaker 1: in the world other than maybe China. All right. You know,

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Speaker 1: you go to h you go to Amsterdam, Uh, certainly London,

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Speaker 1: Oh my lord, you know, they're they're capturing, they're snapping

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Speaker 1: you all the time over there. So I can't imagine that,

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Speaker 1: you know, you got this kid that's missing. I would

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Speaker 1: think that the authorities would run to their big room

397
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Speaker 1: that has all of their cameras in it and maybe

398
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Speaker 1: has a hard driving there of some kind. Certainly it's

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Speaker 1: stored on a cloud and they could pull that down

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Speaker 1: and begin to review it. I think that that's you.

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Speaker 1: You think about that relative to him going off of

402
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Speaker 1: the and it sounds like rip rap, which is like

403
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Speaker 1: a huge collection of rocks that you have where they

404
00:25:09,840 --> 00:25:12,680
Speaker 1: build this kind of artificial wall. Well, are you saying

405
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Speaker 1: that he got onto the rip rap which is very uneven.

406
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Speaker 1: Is there a walkway that walks out onto the rip

407
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Speaker 1: rap where the rip rap is on either side and

408
00:25:22,800 --> 00:25:24,919
Speaker 1: you're on a paved area and you fell off of

409
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Speaker 1: the walkway or where you're trying to walk on this

410
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Speaker 1: uneven surface where their witnesses this, Did you actually see

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Speaker 1: him come off of the rip rap and fall into

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Speaker 1: the water, Because all we're hearing right now is that

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Speaker 1: he's found. We think, oh, and these injuries that he

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Speaker 1: has on his body appear to be consistent with striking

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Speaker 1: of rocks at this point in time.

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Speaker 2: So the temperature in the Mediterranean I looked it up

417
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Speaker 2: about fifty seven degrees right there at the shore. Now

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Speaker 2: what that means is, yeah, you can get in. But

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Speaker 2: it's cold and very cold, going to be in a

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Speaker 2: very long you're going to need a wet suit. Yes,

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Speaker 2: the temperature at the time that Jimmy Gracie left the

422
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Speaker 2: bar probably between fifty and fifty five degrees sixty three

423
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Speaker 2: for the high the next day, so three o'clock in

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Speaker 2: the morning, fifteen fifty five somewhere in there.

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Speaker 1: So it's chili.

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Speaker 2: It's not cold. It's just chili. You know, fairly comfortable,

427
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Speaker 2: to be honest with you, and you're right, there's.

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Speaker 1: Why you're the best producer in the business, Dave.

429
00:26:29,720 --> 00:26:31,760
Speaker 2: But you're out there walking around. You've been out at

430
00:26:31,800 --> 00:26:34,400
Speaker 2: the bar, you've been talking to American and girl, and

431
00:26:34,480 --> 00:26:36,400
Speaker 2: your friends have all gone back to their place, and

432
00:26:36,480 --> 00:26:39,080
Speaker 2: you've decided to go down for a stroll along the

433
00:26:39,119 --> 00:26:43,920
Speaker 2: water by yourself. Apparently somehow you've done made this decision

434
00:26:43,960 --> 00:26:47,760
Speaker 2: without your phone, because somebody else has that. And according

435
00:26:47,760 --> 00:26:51,080
Speaker 2: to what they're telling us, to believe that Jimmy Gracie's

436
00:26:51,080 --> 00:26:58,280
Speaker 2: body was found in the Mediterranean near where has wallet

437
00:26:58,440 --> 00:27:02,840
Speaker 2: was found, but his wallet was found two days before

438
00:27:02,840 --> 00:27:05,840
Speaker 2: his body was found. Pretty much, so we got a

439
00:27:05,840 --> 00:27:12,040
Speaker 2: little problem here. Now we're given to believe his injuries

440
00:27:12,320 --> 00:27:17,040
Speaker 2: consistent with an accident, will fall onto the rocks. Authorities

441
00:27:17,040 --> 00:27:25,080
Speaker 2: have already concluded Joe, there is no evidence of homicide. Yeah,

442
00:27:25,400 --> 00:27:28,480
Speaker 2: when you got a missing person, missing twenty year old

443
00:27:29,320 --> 00:27:32,359
Speaker 2: who comes up dead without his phone, his phone in

444
00:27:32,400 --> 00:27:38,439
Speaker 2: the possession of another person. Sorry, guys in international, this

445
00:27:38,520 --> 00:27:40,160
Speaker 2: is not a home, This is not where he lives.

446
00:27:40,359 --> 00:27:42,359
Speaker 2: He does not live there. He has a family that

447
00:27:42,440 --> 00:27:44,240
Speaker 2: cares about and people he has to talk to, people

448
00:27:44,280 --> 00:27:47,399
Speaker 2: he has to be accountable to. He's twenty years old.

449
00:27:47,920 --> 00:27:50,240
Speaker 2: That phone is not going to be taken lightly.

450
00:27:50,880 --> 00:27:54,840
Speaker 1: No, no, it's not. It is literally his lifeline back

451
00:27:54,880 --> 00:27:57,800
Speaker 1: to the States. And also all of those people that

452
00:27:57,920 --> 00:28:01,600
Speaker 1: are there, you know, a ja to him, his friends

453
00:28:01,840 --> 00:28:04,600
Speaker 1: that are now back at the airbnb. How are you

454
00:28:04,640 --> 00:28:07,879
Speaker 1: going to get in contact with them? And you know,

455
00:28:07,960 --> 00:28:11,399
Speaker 1: that's one of the big troubling things here, the fact

456
00:28:11,560 --> 00:28:15,720
Speaker 1: that he is absent this device that literally tethers him

457
00:28:15,760 --> 00:28:19,360
Speaker 1: back to all of those who know him and are

458
00:28:19,480 --> 00:28:24,080
Speaker 1: concerned for his well being. Now I can tell you this,

459
00:28:25,280 --> 00:28:29,120
Speaker 1: that harbor where he was found it ain't tuscal Loose, Alabama.

460
00:28:29,520 --> 00:28:36,199
Speaker 1: It's something completely different. And who or what happened to

461
00:28:36,320 --> 00:28:41,040
Speaker 1: him when he was inside that bar and after he

462
00:28:41,240 --> 00:28:59,240
Speaker 1: walked out the door. Okay, so brother Dave, they're saying

463
00:28:59,280 --> 00:29:04,760
Speaker 1: that this is they're saying that he'd drowned. Okay, Now

464
00:29:05,000 --> 00:29:08,360
Speaker 1: there's a very specific way we make that diagnosis in

465
00:29:08,480 --> 00:29:11,280
Speaker 1: forensic pathology. All right. Obviously, the first thing we're going

466
00:29:11,320 --> 00:29:13,760
Speaker 1: to look at it the lungs. Okay, take a look

467
00:29:13,800 --> 00:29:19,520
Speaker 1: at the lungs. And there's multiple levels to this to

468
00:29:19,600 --> 00:29:23,400
Speaker 1: the assessment. First off, you weigh the lungs, and we

469
00:29:23,480 --> 00:29:26,240
Speaker 1: have very specific weights that go along with lungs, particularly

470
00:29:26,240 --> 00:29:30,760
Speaker 1: for someone of his age. Okay, these weights are bracketed.

471
00:29:30,840 --> 00:29:33,440
Speaker 1: All right, it's been done for a long time. I

472
00:29:33,480 --> 00:29:36,520
Speaker 1: know what we're doing. So you can get a sense

473
00:29:37,680 --> 00:29:42,240
Speaker 1: and say, okay, yeah, these lungs are very heavy. This

474
00:29:42,400 --> 00:29:45,040
Speaker 1: might be indicative of a drowning. Well, what you do

475
00:29:45,120 --> 00:29:48,040
Speaker 1: at this point, Tom, is you know, through the further

476
00:29:48,160 --> 00:29:52,120
Speaker 1: examination you're going to appreciate because you will actually see

477
00:29:52,480 --> 00:29:58,160
Speaker 1: kind of seepage of water that exudes from the interior

478
00:29:58,160 --> 00:30:00,240
Speaker 1: of the lung. Another thing that you're going to look

479
00:30:00,480 --> 00:30:04,000
Speaker 1: look for is kind of any kind of frothy presentation

480
00:30:04,360 --> 00:30:08,120
Speaker 1: within the bronchial tree and also in the trachea. In

481
00:30:08,160 --> 00:30:11,360
Speaker 1: the airway. One of the things that that's fascinating, Dave

482
00:30:11,560 --> 00:30:17,600
Speaker 1: about drowning drowning assessments is that when you take a

483
00:30:17,800 --> 00:30:21,160
Speaker 1: drowned person and bring them up on chore, you'll see

484
00:30:22,000 --> 00:30:24,600
Speaker 1: what we've talked about before, the frothy administ cone that

485
00:30:24,680 --> 00:30:27,640
Speaker 1: actually rises from them while you're standing there looking at them.

486
00:30:27,680 --> 00:30:31,000
Speaker 1: It's one of the more bizarre things that you'll that

487
00:30:31,040 --> 00:30:37,760
Speaker 1: you will actually see. And then I think what I'm

488
00:30:38,080 --> 00:30:44,719
Speaker 1: very fascinated in, are this quote unquote consistent with having

489
00:30:44,840 --> 00:30:49,120
Speaker 1: these injuries, consistent with having struck rocks. So, and they're

490
00:30:49,120 --> 00:30:52,600
Speaker 1: referring I've heard these referred to as as bruises in

491
00:30:52,640 --> 00:30:58,080
Speaker 1: other words contusions. Well, Dave, you know with contusion slash bruises,

492
00:30:58,760 --> 00:31:01,920
Speaker 1: we all know that you have to be alive, right

493
00:31:02,160 --> 00:31:05,760
Speaker 1: in order to hemorrhage. Okay, So what they're saying is

494
00:31:05,800 --> 00:31:08,520
Speaker 1: that there are bruises on his body that are in

495
00:31:08,600 --> 00:31:13,880
Speaker 1: fact consistent with him bumping up against rocks in the water.

496
00:31:14,000 --> 00:31:17,200
Speaker 1: And there are Listen, there are post mortem injuries that

497
00:31:17,240 --> 00:31:21,360
Speaker 1: bodies can sustain. But they don't have injuries. They'll just

498
00:31:21,400 --> 00:31:25,000
Speaker 1: look like little the body gets dinged up, but you're

499
00:31:25,040 --> 00:31:26,840
Speaker 1: not going to have any kind of hemorrhage in the

500
00:31:26,880 --> 00:31:30,840
Speaker 1: surrounding tissue at all. So it's not so what I say,

501
00:31:31,040 --> 00:31:34,840
Speaker 1: really different, you know, yeah, yeah, yeah, completely So did

502
00:31:34,880 --> 00:31:39,760
Speaker 1: he fall in the water and then subsequently drowned, Well,

503
00:31:40,520 --> 00:31:44,320
Speaker 1: I don't know. I've fallen down rocks before, I've fallen

504
00:31:44,360 --> 00:31:46,280
Speaker 1: into the water, you know. Me, I'm out on my boat,

505
00:31:46,360 --> 00:31:50,640
Speaker 1: you know quite a bit. If that happens with me,

506
00:31:51,520 --> 00:31:57,000
Speaker 1: and yeah it hurts, I can still essentially recover from it.

507
00:31:57,840 --> 00:32:02,000
Speaker 1: What is it about him that he was unable to

508
00:32:02,200 --> 00:32:07,720
Speaker 1: recover from striking rocks, falling into the water and subsequently

509
00:32:07,800 --> 00:32:11,080
Speaker 1: drowned him. Because it sounds to me that's the sequencing

510
00:32:11,320 --> 00:32:15,680
Speaker 1: that they're giving us here. So you strike rocks, you drown,

511
00:32:15,880 --> 00:32:20,160
Speaker 1: and we find you later, all right? For me, I

512
00:32:20,200 --> 00:32:24,520
Speaker 1: want to know how a healthy twenty year old cannot

513
00:32:24,840 --> 00:32:27,480
Speaker 1: get out of the water and get back up onto

514
00:32:28,120 --> 00:32:31,240
Speaker 1: the rip rap that's there, you know, these stones that

515
00:32:31,280 --> 00:32:35,800
Speaker 1: are alongside the waterway that's holding back you know, the

516
00:32:35,920 --> 00:32:39,360
Speaker 1: tide just adjacent to the back of this restaurant. I

517
00:32:39,400 --> 00:32:42,400
Speaker 1: want to try to understand that. But still to date,

518
00:32:43,480 --> 00:32:47,480
Speaker 1: and here's where I have a real problem is they

519
00:32:47,480 --> 00:32:52,720
Speaker 1: have made all of these assertions Dave without toxicology. Now,

520
00:32:52,800 --> 00:32:57,120
Speaker 1: maybe toxicology came in as of today. However they were

521
00:32:57,120 --> 00:33:02,000
Speaker 1: making these assertions days ago. So you're telling me that

522
00:33:02,120 --> 00:33:10,720
Speaker 1: you did an examination of drawn drawn samples, blood, urine, vitreous, bile,

523
00:33:10,920 --> 00:33:14,000
Speaker 1: whatever it else that you gast, you content, you did

524
00:33:14,040 --> 00:33:15,760
Speaker 1: all of that, and you were able to turn it

525
00:33:15,800 --> 00:33:21,280
Speaker 1: around this quickly and not mention what was contained therein.

526
00:33:22,720 --> 00:33:22,960
Speaker 2: To me.

527
00:33:24,640 --> 00:33:27,320
Speaker 1: Yeah, and so I don't see how you can arrive

528
00:33:27,360 --> 00:33:31,320
Speaker 1: at that conclusion. There's a big conclusion I can arrive at.

529
00:33:31,720 --> 00:33:34,160
Speaker 1: And I'll go and plainly say it here on my show.

530
00:33:36,560 --> 00:33:41,880
Speaker 1: The tourist dollars really valued in Bartholona, all right, it's

531
00:33:41,960 --> 00:33:44,200
Speaker 1: highly valued, and of course we don't want to do

532
00:33:44,280 --> 00:33:47,320
Speaker 1: anything that would dissuade people from coming in spending their

533
00:33:48,120 --> 00:33:53,640
Speaker 1: tourist dollars. So, you know, if word gets out that

534
00:33:54,560 --> 00:33:58,280
Speaker 1: I don't know he was drunk in a bar or

535
00:33:58,360 --> 00:34:01,560
Speaker 1: maybe there was some substance, how can you know that

536
00:34:01,680 --> 00:34:04,640
Speaker 1: at this point time? How do you know that the

537
00:34:04,680 --> 00:34:09,280
Speaker 1: samples that you took reveal not just maybe alcohol, because

538
00:34:09,280 --> 00:34:11,880
Speaker 1: he's not of drinking age in America. I know that

539
00:34:11,880 --> 00:34:14,400
Speaker 1: he's of drinking age over there, but how do you

540
00:34:14,520 --> 00:34:17,719
Speaker 1: know that there is not some kind of agent in

541
00:34:17,760 --> 00:34:21,120
Speaker 1: his system that may have been slipped because you know,

542
00:34:21,440 --> 00:34:26,080
Speaker 1: going back to my earlier supposition about the phone, because

543
00:34:26,160 --> 00:34:29,560
Speaker 1: you know his phone has wound up in somebody else's hand.

544
00:34:29,880 --> 00:34:32,719
Speaker 1: Oh and by the way, the police felt strongly enough

545
00:34:32,719 --> 00:34:36,440
Speaker 1: about it to arrest the person that had Jimmy's phone.

546
00:34:37,200 --> 00:34:39,960
Speaker 1: How does all this marry up, Dave, I don't understand.

547
00:34:39,960 --> 00:34:41,479
Speaker 1: Please help me understand this, man.

548
00:34:41,960 --> 00:34:44,360
Speaker 2: If I could help you understand it, Joe, if I

549
00:34:44,400 --> 00:34:46,520
Speaker 2: could break this down differently, we wouldn't be doing this

550
00:34:46,560 --> 00:34:49,719
Speaker 2: episode because the real problem is the guy that was

551
00:34:49,840 --> 00:34:52,640
Speaker 2: arrested with Jimmy's phone was not arrested because he had

552
00:34:52,680 --> 00:34:57,680
Speaker 2: Jimmy's phone. He was arrested on other charges, and he

553
00:34:57,760 --> 00:35:01,960
Speaker 2: happened to have Jimmy's phone before police knew Jimmy Gracy

554
00:35:02,040 --> 00:35:05,960
Speaker 2: was missing. So there's a lot going on. That's why

555
00:35:05,960 --> 00:35:08,520
Speaker 2: that phone is very, very important to this entire case.

556
00:35:08,560 --> 00:35:13,640
Speaker 2: Because they, being investigator, said, yes, this guy we arrested

557
00:35:13,719 --> 00:35:17,600
Speaker 2: had Jimmy Gracey's phone on in his possession, but he's

558
00:35:17,600 --> 00:35:20,279
Speaker 2: not involved in whatever happened to Jimmy Gracy. But since

559
00:35:20,320 --> 00:35:22,640
Speaker 2: you don't even know what happened to Jimmy Gracy when

560
00:35:22,680 --> 00:35:27,000
Speaker 2: you're saying that it holds no water, just like your

561
00:35:27,000 --> 00:35:30,320
Speaker 2: story of drowning. But here we go back to this again, Joe,

562
00:35:31,040 --> 00:35:33,920
Speaker 2: the outcropping. Why is Jimmy Gracy going to leave a bar?

563
00:35:34,040 --> 00:35:36,600
Speaker 2: He's been with his friends all evening until said point

564
00:35:36,600 --> 00:35:38,719
Speaker 2: when he goes outside at three o'clock in the morning

565
00:35:38,760 --> 00:35:40,720
Speaker 2: where he's seen on video and he's not with his friends.

566
00:35:40,760 --> 00:35:43,080
Speaker 2: They've gone home. He was last seen talking to an

567
00:35:43,120 --> 00:35:47,319
Speaker 2: American girl inside the bar inside shacko. Was he given

568
00:35:47,360 --> 00:35:50,799
Speaker 2: something else inside the bar that made him not want

569
00:35:50,800 --> 00:35:51,080
Speaker 2: to leave?

570
00:35:51,160 --> 00:35:51,359
Speaker 1: Right?

571
00:35:51,400 --> 00:35:54,440
Speaker 2: Then his friends leave. Once his friends are gone, boom,

572
00:35:54,480 --> 00:35:57,280
Speaker 2: we got him. Jimmy is seen outside talking to somebody.

573
00:35:58,360 --> 00:36:02,640
Speaker 2: But then Jimmy is later seen alone. That's what police say.

574
00:36:02,840 --> 00:36:05,799
Speaker 2: He has seen walking alone towards the water. Now, Joe,

575
00:36:05,800 --> 00:36:10,760
Speaker 2: this outcropping, I've been looking at this, slippery rocks, uneven

576
00:36:10,840 --> 00:36:17,960
Speaker 2: walking areas at night, rocky edges without full barriers in place. Now,

577
00:36:17,960 --> 00:36:23,279
Speaker 2: a twenty year old young man walking by himself for

578
00:36:23,400 --> 00:36:31,719
Speaker 2: whatever reason, and investigators believe it was disorientation, darkness or

579
00:36:31,760 --> 00:36:38,120
Speaker 2: alcohol may have contributed. Now, remember, toxicology details have not

580
00:36:38,200 --> 00:36:41,319
Speaker 2: been publicly released and have not been completed as far

581
00:36:41,320 --> 00:36:44,319
Speaker 2: as we know yet. But they're making an assumption that

582
00:36:44,360 --> 00:36:46,239
Speaker 2: he was drunk and fell down in his head and

583
00:36:46,280 --> 00:36:48,640
Speaker 2: fell in the water and drowned. So if he hit

584
00:36:48,680 --> 00:36:50,359
Speaker 2: his head and fell in the water and drowned, Joe

585
00:36:50,520 --> 00:36:54,839
Speaker 2: knocked himself out and drowned, that's a big leap. That's

586
00:36:54,840 --> 00:36:56,480
Speaker 2: a big leap because that's the only thing he can

587
00:36:56,520 --> 00:36:59,040
Speaker 2: really come up with. He had to have been at

588
00:36:59,160 --> 00:37:04,000
Speaker 2: least in bad enough shape before he fell in the water.

589
00:37:04,480 --> 00:37:07,640
Speaker 1: Thank you. Yep, you're right, because I you know, I

590
00:37:08,239 --> 00:37:09,800
Speaker 1: this kind of slipped my mind a second ago. I

591
00:37:09,840 --> 00:37:12,479
Speaker 1: was thinking about these in these injuries that he has.

592
00:37:13,120 --> 00:37:15,080
Speaker 1: What's one thing to have an injury on your shoulder

593
00:37:15,920 --> 00:37:18,160
Speaker 1: or on the back of your hand, or your elbow,

594
00:37:18,880 --> 00:37:21,200
Speaker 1: or maybe it even looks like maybe you've got a

595
00:37:21,200 --> 00:37:25,520
Speaker 1: big contusion on your ribcage. I want to know about

596
00:37:25,520 --> 00:37:28,279
Speaker 1: the head. I want to know what was going on

597
00:37:28,600 --> 00:37:31,120
Speaker 1: in this child's head. Uh, and not in it in

598
00:37:31,160 --> 00:37:33,000
Speaker 1: the sense of, you know, what was he thinking. I

599
00:37:33,040 --> 00:37:36,360
Speaker 1: want to know what's going on internally. I want to

600
00:37:36,400 --> 00:37:39,720
Speaker 1: know if there's any kind of external manifestation of trauma.

601
00:37:40,000 --> 00:37:42,520
Speaker 1: I want to know if the external manifestation of trauma

602
00:37:42,600 --> 00:37:46,520
Speaker 1: translates through the external table of the skull and into

603
00:37:46,600 --> 00:37:48,799
Speaker 1: the surface of his brain. I want to try to

604
00:37:48,880 --> 00:37:52,360
Speaker 1: understand that, and I also want to try to understand

605
00:37:52,440 --> 00:37:56,720
Speaker 1: that coupled whether TOS college you report, which of course

606
00:37:57,520 --> 00:38:01,440
Speaker 1: we don't have at this point. But I promise you this.

607
00:38:01,680 --> 00:38:04,800
Speaker 1: My friends, brother Dave and I are going to be

608
00:38:04,880 --> 00:38:08,480
Speaker 1: watching this case, and when we feel like that it

609
00:38:08,560 --> 00:38:11,920
Speaker 1: is time, we will come back good bad, are indifferent,

610
00:38:12,480 --> 00:38:14,319
Speaker 1: and we will let you know what the results are.

611
00:38:14,600 --> 00:38:16,600
Speaker 1: I hope that you will keep your on the case

612
00:38:16,640 --> 00:38:23,360
Speaker 1: as well. I'm Joseph Scott Morgan and this is Body

613
00:38:23,440 --> 00:38:24,920
Speaker 1: Backs