Speaker 1: Hi, everyone, it's Sophia. Welcome to Work in Progress. Hello
Speaker 1: Whipsmarti's today's guest is someone I am so honored to
Speaker 1: have on the podcast. Secretary Jennifer Granholm is with us today.
Speaker 1: She is an incredible leader and politician. She serves as
Speaker 1: the sixteenth United States Secretary of Energy. She is a
Speaker 1: member of the Democratic Party and previously served as the
Speaker 1: Attorney General of Michigan. Big Love for Detroit as always.
Speaker 1: Secretary Grandholm was a member of the presidential transition team
Speaker 1: back for President Barack Obama before he assumed office in
Speaker 1: two thousand and nine, and after leaving public office, she
Speaker 1: took a position at UC Berkeley. Authored a book called
Speaker 1: a Governor's Story, The Fight for Jobs in America's Future.
Speaker 1: With her husband, Daniel mulher. She became the host of
Speaker 1: the War Room with Jennifer Granholm in twenty seventeen. Was
Speaker 1: a CNN political contributor, and after President elect Joe Biden
Speaker 1: announced his intention to nominate Grandholme to head the United
Speaker 1: States Department of Energy in twenty twenty, she was confirmed
Speaker 1: by the US Senate in twenty twenty one. This woman
Speaker 1: is so incredibly accomplished, so unbelievably smart, and she is
Speaker 1: going to walk us through some of the incredible things
Speaker 1: that our president is doing for America in terms of energy,
Speaker 1: getting us to a green energy future, and all of
Speaker 1: the incredible innovation that is taking place along the way.
Speaker 2: I cannot wait for you to hear from her. Let's
Speaker 2: get to it.
Speaker 1: I'm just so happy to see you today, Secretary grand Home.
Speaker 1: It's a wild thing to join you on zoom and
Speaker 1: think about how long we've known each other now, and
Speaker 1: as you know, I'm just your biggest fan, and I
Speaker 1: really appreciate you for taking the time today.
Speaker 3: Oh my gosh. Well, that is such a nice thing
Speaker 3: for you to say, and such a nice thing for
Speaker 3: us to be able to have a conversation that hopefully
Speaker 3: opens up some windows to the folks who follow you
Speaker 3: and gets them excited about you know, the planet and
Speaker 3: climate and our clean enerview future and the president.
Speaker 1: Yes, all of that, Yes, I mean, and you have
Speaker 1: been so hard at work in this world. I mean,
Speaker 1: my gosh, I was going to say in the state
Speaker 1: and then the country. You know, there's a million words
Speaker 1: bouncing around in my head because you really have focused
Speaker 1: on you know, climate and energy and democracy and you know,
Speaker 1: ways to make the country a better place. But if
Speaker 1: we rewind, you know, back to before the beginning of
Speaker 1: your political career, you know, before you were out trying
Speaker 1: to make sure that we have you know, great energy
Speaker 1: and great jobs in the future. When you were just
Speaker 1: a little kid, were you into the idea of public service.
Speaker 1: Did you know you wanted to hold you know, office
Speaker 1: someday or did you have a totally different idea?
Speaker 3: And for your listeners, I was governor of Michigan, so
Speaker 3: that's why you asked this question. Yes, and elected as
Speaker 3: attorney general too. But I did not at all think
Speaker 3: that I was going to be running for office. But
Speaker 3: I did feel like you know, and my parents same thing.
Speaker 2: They are.
Speaker 3: They felt their immigrants. I'm an immigrant from Canada, and
Speaker 3: they felt so my dad in particular, felt so lucky
Speaker 3: to be in this country and they came to try
Speaker 3: to make their way and they felt like, you go
Speaker 3: to this country, you've got to give back and you've
Speaker 3: got to participate, and you know, you have a duty
Speaker 3: right And so I didn't know what form that was
Speaker 3: going to take. That was definitely in my head, is that,
Speaker 3: you know somehow, And it also just became so consuming
Speaker 3: for me to be able to follow politics and to
Speaker 3: imagine that I could help somebody get elected or I
Speaker 3: could help a cause. So I was young. It was
Speaker 3: really my parents who gave me this notion that you're here,
Speaker 3: you should be grateful and you should act beyond self.
Speaker 1: M I love that that is. That is something that
Speaker 1: I think my parents really instilled in me as well.
Speaker 1: And part of me is wondering talking to you if
Speaker 1: it's because you know, we've got the Canadian portion of
Speaker 1: my Canadians.
Speaker 3: They're so but they I mean, who knows. You can't
Speaker 3: generalize about country. This is true with so many people
Speaker 3: here too. But I feel grateful to have had that
Speaker 3: infusion of knowing that we are here to put, you know,
Speaker 3: to leave this camp sites cleaner than we found it.
Speaker 2: I love that well.
Speaker 1: I think there's something really powerful.
Speaker 3: You know.
Speaker 1: My dad came down with a lot of his family
Speaker 1: from Canada, and my mom's family came over from Italy.
Speaker 1: But I think wherever you come from, when you have
Speaker 1: that history of immigration in your family, that the passion
Speaker 1: for the pursuit of the American dream is big.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's so real, It is so real. It's just
Speaker 3: such a sense of you know, of gratitude to be
Speaker 3: in this great nation where you know you can be,
Speaker 3: you know, where leaders are not born of kings, but
Speaker 3: they are born of just common people who decided they, too,
Speaker 3: are going to make a better situation. You know. For me,
Speaker 3: I didn't see myself as putting myself out front like that.
Speaker 3: I was, you know, I married this great guy, he's
Speaker 3: from Michigan, and Michigan after law school, and I thought
Speaker 3: he was going to run for office. He kind of
Speaker 3: thought he was for office too, and you know, we
Speaker 3: but we worked in school politics, and we worked in uh,
Speaker 3: you know, politics at the county level, et cetera, at
Speaker 3: the state level. But when I was working behind the scenes,
Speaker 3: and then you know, I had been I was, I
Speaker 3: had been a federal prosecutor. I had worked at uh,
Speaker 3: you know, in courts, and the Democratic Party of my
Speaker 3: case came to me and said, do you want to
Speaker 3: run for Will you run for attorney General? And at
Speaker 3: that point I was like what me way? And I
Speaker 3: had just I had two little kids and my husband
Speaker 3: I talked about it. We drove to Chicago from Detroit
Speaker 3: and on the drive, you know, he was like, come on,
Speaker 3: I got the kids.
Speaker 4: This is you know, the door only opens once you
Speaker 4: gotta do what you gotta do it, And honestly, I
Speaker 4: would never have done it if I didn't have such
Speaker 4: a great partner, such a great, incrediblyless partner.
Speaker 3: So all of that getting said, I feel fortunate to
Speaker 3: have had the journey I've had, and certainly feel fortunate
Speaker 3: to be where I am today to have an impact
Speaker 3: with our team here on one of the biggest existential
Speaker 3: problems that we face.
Speaker 1: Well for our listeners who don't know, can you explain
Speaker 1: your work and some of your primary initiatives as the
Speaker 1: Secretary of Energy.
Speaker 3: Yeah, So the President has a couple of big, hairy,
Speaker 3: audacious goals with respect we loved thus energy. I love
Speaker 3: them too. And so the first one is to get
Speaker 3: to one hundred percent clean electricity meanings zero carbon emitting
Speaker 3: electricity by twenty thirty five. And the second is to
Speaker 3: get to net zero, meaning we want to make sure
Speaker 3: that we are not emitting carbon more carbon certainly into
Speaker 3: the atmosphere by twenty fifty and that is consistent. That
Speaker 3: last goal is consistent with with what all of these
Speaker 3: countries who have signed onto the Paris Accords to all
Speaker 3: these nations who also want to get to net zero
Speaker 3: by twenty fifty to heal our planet.
Speaker 2: It is.
Speaker 3: It's a big, hairy, audicious goal for everyone because we
Speaker 3: are still emitting so much carbon into the atmosphere, and
Speaker 3: at the same time, we are trying to ad deploy, deploy, deploy,
Speaker 3: as we say here, as much clean electricity as we
Speaker 3: possibly can, so get all those utility scale solar farms
Speaker 3: out there. Those wind turbines were really interested in the
Speaker 3: heat beneath our feet, you know, geothermal which is clean electricity.
Speaker 3: All of the kinds of technologies. I hope we can
Speaker 3: talk about a couple of them, because I think, you know,
Speaker 3: for your listeners who want to know sort of the future,
Speaker 3: a lot of it is very interesting. But that's our
Speaker 3: big goal. In so I have an office of over
Speaker 3: one hundred thousand people in the Department of Energy. There
Speaker 3: are seventeen national laboratory who are doing the research into
Speaker 3: what those next generation technologies are and how to bring
Speaker 3: down the cost of them, and what are the materials
Speaker 3: we're going to be using. We are all over the country,
Speaker 3: these seventeen labs. They're huge. We employ it. It's really
Speaker 3: a science agency that I run. But we also have
Speaker 3: now this big mandate from the President's invest in America
Speaker 3: Agenda to deploy clean energy, and so both of those
Speaker 3: we do research, we do development, we do early stage
Speaker 3: demonstration and deployment, and we do big deployment. So all
Speaker 3: of that is happening under the Department of Energy under
Speaker 3: President Biden.
Speaker 2: Wow, that's really exciting.
Speaker 3: It's super exciting.
Speaker 1: And so energy and clean energy feels like it should
Speaker 1: really be a no brainer. And yet, like so many
Speaker 1: things in our world, seems to me and many others,
Speaker 1: to have become so weirdly politicized as though it's a
Speaker 1: partisan issue rather than, you know, just a requirement for
Speaker 1: survival on this planet. How do you wade through that
Speaker 1: muck and how how do you kind of help us
Speaker 1: make sense of things? Because you know, from the outside,
Speaker 1: I see everything you guys are doing at the Department
Speaker 1: of Energy. I know that President Biden is incredibly committed
Speaker 1: to a green energy future and wants to be a
Speaker 1: good climate president. And you see people saying that, you know,
Speaker 1: we're drilling so much and leases are getting approved, and
Speaker 1: it all feels to a lay person a little confusing.
Speaker 1: So is part of it just the fact that there's
Speaker 1: a lot of oil lobbyists who make a lot of
Speaker 1: money and don't want the transition to happen as fast.
Speaker 1: Is it that we have to be pragmatic and understand
Speaker 1: that the transition is going to take I don't know,
Speaker 1: I'm making up numbers, but five years, eight years?
Speaker 2: Is it?
Speaker 3: Is it?
Speaker 1: A little bit of bow? It's like, how do you
Speaker 1: clue some of us who are really passionate about the
Speaker 1: issue but a little confused as to where we stand.
Speaker 2: How do you make sense of it for us?
Speaker 3: Well, I appreciate the question because it's a thoughtful question.
Speaker 3: How do you get to the goal of net zero? Now?
Speaker 3: Note that net zero by twenty fifty, so we have time.
Speaker 3: We today could not just completely stop using fossil fuels.
Speaker 3: You wouldn't mean for anybody.
Speaker 2: We don't have the infrastructure.
Speaker 3: We don't have the infrastructure. Okay, people don't have the vehicles.
Speaker 3: You know, we have about almost ten percent of our
Speaker 3: vehicles are electric, and so they would be able to
Speaker 3: operate their vehicles. But ninety percent of Americans would not
Speaker 3: be able to so, and that's you know, we have
Speaker 3: we have a responsibility to make sure that energy is working.
Speaker 3: That's not just for transportation, but just flipping on the switch.
Speaker 2: Right.
Speaker 3: So a lot of our power right now comes from
Speaker 3: natural gas, some comes from goal. You know, a larger
Speaker 3: and larger percentage is coming from renewables, and we're trying
Speaker 3: to accelerate that, but we're not at a point where
Speaker 3: we can be one hundred percent today. So it's got
Speaker 3: to take time for us to build out the infrastructure
Speaker 3: and the generation to get to big goal. And that's
Speaker 3: why you've got to continue to produce fossil fuel energy
Speaker 3: while you accelerate the clean So you have to have
Speaker 3: enough energy and clean to be able to fuld a transition.
Speaker 3: But we're unfortunately just not there yet. And I will
Speaker 3: say there's one other element that people may not be
Speaker 3: as cognizant of, which is that we have a role.
Speaker 3: We have a place in the world that is pretty
Speaker 3: unique because we are such a big energy producer, both
Speaker 3: on fossil fuels, oil and gas. And when Putin invaded Ukraine,
Speaker 3: for example, Russia had a huge amount of oil going
Speaker 3: on the market at that point, and when they invaded,
Speaker 3: everybody rightfully said, no, we're not going to buy any
Speaker 3: Russian oil. That took millions of barrels off the market,
Speaker 3: and that's why you remember a year and a half
Speaker 3: ago we saw a huge spike in prices because that's
Speaker 3: why I was taken off the market. And so the
Speaker 3: President said, well, we're going to contribute to keep prices
Speaker 3: down for real people where people are most affected by this,
Speaker 3: and he's really focused on how you bring down prices
Speaker 3: for people at the same time as we want to
Speaker 3: accelerate this move, and we are accelerating this move toward
Speaker 3: clean So that's sort of the it's a managed transition,
Speaker 3: I'll say, to manage it as we accelerate, right.
Speaker 1: Well, that I think is a really helpful clarification, especially
Speaker 1: when you know, listen, I wish we could snap our
Speaker 1: fingers and be in a you know, completely green utopia tomorrow,
Speaker 1: but it does. The reality is that it takes time,
Speaker 1: and it takes building infrastructure, and it also takes the
Speaker 1: pragmatism to be patient. You know, we were so used
Speaker 1: to refreshing our screens on our phones. We want answers now,
Speaker 1: now now. But when you talk about really shifting energy systems,
Speaker 1: political systems, those things take generational commitments and I think
Speaker 1: it's really it's helpful to remind, I know myself, and
Speaker 1: i'd imagine our friends listening at home, that these are
Speaker 1: also matters of national security, these are also matters of
Speaker 1: geopolitical stabilization, and so you have to do what is
Speaker 1: available while trying to bring about a better future as
Speaker 1: quickly as possible.
Speaker 3: That's exactly right, I will say, though you know, patience
Speaker 3: is not in our lexicon.
Speaker 1: I love that about your administration.
Speaker 3: Though we well, we really feel this sense of urgency
Speaker 3: about it. We really want to accelerate, and we're trying
Speaker 3: to figure out what are all the blockages that are
Speaker 3: there need to be removed in order to really see
Speaker 3: this accelerate. So, for example, you know, we want to
Speaker 3: see a huge amount of proliferation of solar, right every
Speaker 3: state has different requirements for that. Every state is different permitting.
Speaker 3: Some states don't want to see a proliferation of solar,
Speaker 3: Some states don't want to see a proliferation of wind,
Speaker 3: and so there's a lot of local anxiety about that
Speaker 3: and often blocks and so you know, you have to
Speaker 3: almost do everything everywhere, all at once, block tackle, play,
Speaker 3: offense and defense on both local policies as well as
Speaker 3: federal policies. I will say though, honestly, the tax credits
Speaker 3: that were embedded in the in the Inflation Reduction Act,
Speaker 3: which is one of the three big laws that the
Speaker 3: President got passed to have this invest in America agenda,
Speaker 3: which will really really is accelerating employment of clean those
Speaker 3: tax credits do an awful lot of the work themselves.
Speaker 3: So let me just give you an example. Say you
Speaker 3: want to develop a solar project that a community can use,
Speaker 3: and if you hire using prevailing wage, high wages, if
Speaker 3: you have apprenticeship programs, you get a thirty percent tax
Speaker 3: credit to be able to build that out. That's a
Speaker 3: tax credit, that's a tax deduction, that's money back right
Speaker 3: off of a If you use American made solar panels,
Speaker 3: that's another ten percent, so now it's forty percent. If
Speaker 3: you locate that project in adjacent or in a disadvantaged community,
Speaker 3: that's another ten percent. So now we're talking about ay
Speaker 3: percent tax credit off of that solar project. So those
Speaker 3: kinds of incentives that are embedded now in the law
Speaker 3: are doing a lot of work to get both the
Speaker 3: private sector as well as communities really interested. But it's
Speaker 3: also generated a lot of angst among those who are
Speaker 3: really you know, who don't like to change and who
Speaker 3: really like the status quote. But changes happen in folks
Speaker 3: not just because solars coming online, but because we are
Speaker 3: all using so much more energy with electrification of vehicles
Speaker 3: and AI, these data centers, cryptocurrency. There's just a huge
Speaker 3: energy suck out there, and we have got to deploy
Speaker 3: energy at a rapid rapid speed. And that's a lot
Speaker 3: of what keeps me up at night.
Speaker 1: And now a word from our sponsors who make this
Speaker 1: show possible. You know, it's interesting to me because when
Speaker 1: you talk about the way that things are shifting, of course,
Speaker 1: there's folks who want the status quota remain. There's plenty
Speaker 1: of folks who make a lot of money harming the
Speaker 1: planet and who know that by the time we have
Speaker 1: to reap what we sew, they'll be dead and they
Speaker 1: don't really care, which is morbid but true. And then
Speaker 1: here you guys are talking about building out these generational
Speaker 1: programs that will certainly outlive many of us and create
Speaker 1: a better world for the people coming after us. And
Speaker 1: at the center of that you touched on this is
Speaker 1: the creation of really good paying, clean energy jobs, the
Speaker 1: kinds of jobs and to your point, projects that could
Speaker 1: transition entire communities into better health. Can you tell folks
Speaker 1: at home a little bit about what that means, because
Speaker 1: I think sometimes people hear clean energy jobs and they
Speaker 1: go like, yeah, okay, but what are the jobs? What
Speaker 1: are the options?
Speaker 3: Oh my gosh, I love to say all kinds of
Speaker 3: jobs for all kinds of people. So you know, if
Speaker 3: you are interested in advanced manufacturing and you want to
Speaker 3: help build out next generation soul or sells, or next
Speaker 3: generation wind turbines, or next generation reconductoring material for the grid,
Speaker 3: if you want to design any of these systems, if
Speaker 3: you're interested in an enhanced geothermal if you're interested in
Speaker 3: tidal power, offshore wind, if you're interested in energy efficiency
Speaker 3: and the materials that support the buildings around you so
Speaker 3: that you use less energy, if you're interested in batteries
Speaker 3: for electric vehicles or for storing renewable energy, if you're
Speaker 3: interested in the vehicles themselves. There are just so millions
Speaker 3: of jobs that will be available in these future facing
Speaker 3: industries that are good jobs. And here again, because the
Speaker 3: tax credits incentivize the payment of prevailing wage and good
Speaker 3: paying jobs, we're seeing wages rise I mean, these tax credits,
Speaker 3: they really are working. We've got just in my field.
Speaker 3: I mean, you know, they're they're incentivizing other kinds of
Speaker 3: you know, they're incentivizing chip fabrication facilities, et cetera. Are
Speaker 3: but just in the space of clean energy. They there
Speaker 3: have been over five hundred factories now since the passage
Speaker 3: of these laws that are coming to the US, expanding
Speaker 3: in the US, being built in that would not have
Speaker 3: been here but for these incentives, and creating so many
Speaker 3: jobs across America in pockets all over the country. And
Speaker 3: a lot of times people worry, you know, well, how
Speaker 3: will communities that don't necessarily support clean energy or maybe
Speaker 3: that have a leg in the fossil fuel world feel
Speaker 3: about these new kind of jobs. And that's a really
Speaker 3: important question because we can't leave people feeling in this
Speaker 3: transition that they're being left behind or that they're less than.
Speaker 3: But here's the kicker is that in this new energy world,
Speaker 3: the jobs, there's so many jobs that are analogous to
Speaker 3: the jobs that people are already doing. So for example,
Speaker 3: you know, there's oil and gas industry that drill offshore
Speaker 3: in the Gulf of Mexis. They know how to get
Speaker 3: on an oil rig and drill down. Well, why not
Speaker 3: have those offshore platforms be one of the things that
Speaker 3: might be useful for offshore wind. If you do an
Speaker 3: oil rig on land, you know how the subs, you know,
Speaker 3: the subsurface, you could be in a place to help
Speaker 3: pull up that geothermal heat. There's a lot analogies in this,
Speaker 3: and so it's exciting. I mean, we we I have
Speaker 3: the privilege of working for the most pro union president
Speaker 3: that I think the country's ever seen, and the unions
Speaker 3: and the amount of union jobs that have been created
Speaker 3: both in constructing these facilities as well as working in
Speaker 3: them is inspiring. To my mind.
Speaker 1: It's really exciting, and I think it's so important. You know,
Speaker 1: it's human nature to worry that change might leave you behind,
Speaker 1: but to know that there are are real there is
Speaker 1: thought leadership around how anyone who works in a dirty
Speaker 1: energy job could transition into a clean energy.
Speaker 2: Job and.
Speaker 1: Not have to shift all that much of their life.
Speaker 1: That's that's important, you know, it's.
Speaker 3: One hundred important. And I you know, I mean, I
Speaker 3: think about this, and it's not just oil and gas,
Speaker 3: it's coal as well. And perhaps coal is even further
Speaker 3: ahead in that there are a lot more coal mines
Speaker 3: that have shut down this transition. And there's this in
Speaker 3: Weird in West Virginia. They had a big steel factory
Speaker 3: that was that shut down, and they have a number
Speaker 3: of old mines as well in West Virginia. And this
Speaker 3: agenda incentivizes the location of facilities and clean energy on
Speaker 3: the places that produced the fossil energy of the past.
Speaker 3: And so we like to say that the communities that
Speaker 3: have powered our nation for the past one hundred years
Speaker 3: should be communities that power our nation for the next
Speaker 3: hundred years, but with clean energy exactly.
Speaker 1: And that was always again from the outside looking in.
Speaker 1: You know, people will say, because I like to volunteer
Speaker 1: and be involved in the political process, well how would
Speaker 1: you do it? And I'm like, you know, anywhere there
Speaker 1: was a coal mine is where I'd build the next
Speaker 1: solar plant.
Speaker 3: You know.
Speaker 1: That's that's the goal, is to help people transition, to
Speaker 1: give people safer versions of the jobs they have today,
Speaker 1: better versions, better pay. You know, That's that's the idea
Speaker 1: I think behind advancement. And you know, it's so cool
Speaker 1: to see how these rescue plans are working. You know,
Speaker 1: the whole world was upended in twenty twenty. And I
Speaker 1: just read an article today, forgive me, I can't remember
Speaker 1: if it was in the Washington Post or The Atlantic
Speaker 1: that was talking about how when you look at global
Speaker 1: inflation and you see these bills that President Biden passed
Speaker 1: and what they did for the infusion in the economy,
Speaker 1: how they're already paying for themselves. And how in Europe,
Speaker 1: for example, they invested less and their inflation is still
Speaker 1: twice as high. And what's happening here in terms of
Speaker 1: you know, jobs, job creation, economic bolstering, Like we are
Speaker 1: making this really incredibly strong economic recovery because we've invested
Speaker 1: in our own country and in our own people. And
Speaker 1: now to know that he's you know, not to do
Speaker 1: with energy, but now he's going after the price gouging.
Speaker 1: I'm just like, get them, Joe.
Speaker 2: Let's go.
Speaker 3: He's obsessed with crisis. I'll just say, yeah, Joe from Scranton,
Speaker 3: Amtrak Joe. He really focuses on how, you know, what
Speaker 3: people are feeling out there. But do you point about
Speaker 3: the economy. I mean, he under since he's been elected,
Speaker 3: have been fourteen point eight million jobs created. That is
Speaker 3: more jobs any president in any term in the history
Speaker 3: of the United States. Inflation has gone from nine percent
Speaker 3: to now three percent, and they're still working on getting
Speaker 3: it lower. You know, wages are up, the number of
Speaker 3: small businesses that have started again record amounts, five point
Speaker 3: five million new business starts. Never had that many before.
Speaker 3: The amount of people unemployed, it's under four percent now.
Speaker 3: That is the longest period of time under four percent
Speaker 3: in fifty years. That all of the indicators might to
Speaker 3: just jump on what you were pointed to are extremely positive.
Speaker 3: And when you compare us to our global neighbors and allies,
Speaker 3: we have the most GDP growth of any of the
Speaker 3: advanced nations. We are doing better than any of them
Speaker 3: because go figure, policy works.
Speaker 2: Policy works these people.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, it really does. And so we just got
Speaker 3: to get to a point where people feel it. And
Speaker 3: and you know, we may not be there yet because
Speaker 3: the steel isn't in the ground in all these places yet.
Speaker 3: And you know, but I'm telling you, uh, with the numbers,
Speaker 3: any president would die to have these kind of economic
Speaker 3: indicators much better than anywhere any time before.
Speaker 1: It's really it's quite incredible, and it is you know,
Speaker 1: it's not lost on me that for some reason, Uh,
Speaker 1: it doesn't seem to get covered in the press as
Speaker 1: well as it should. Uh they it's so frustrating to
Speaker 1: to sort of watch that that folks go, oh, well,
Speaker 1: things are going pretty well on our home soil here.
Speaker 1: We we don't love that. It doesn't give us, as
Speaker 1: you know, as much clickbait as we want. So they
Speaker 1: try to, you know, drum up some local controversy. It
Speaker 1: feels important to be frank about what would be at
Speaker 1: risk from an energy perspective for us if a Republican
Speaker 1: gets elected this year.
Speaker 3: Well, I think it is important to look at what
Speaker 3: Congress has done and what the House has passed. What
Speaker 3: you know, some of these think tanks are proposing if
Speaker 3: there is a shift in administrations. You know, I think
Speaker 3: that's important for people to take a look at. As
Speaker 3: we speak, you and I I'm hatched, so I can't
Speaker 3: get into politics pure power per se. But I think
Speaker 3: people can do homework like you have been doing and
Speaker 3: see the importance of moving forward an agenda for the
Speaker 3: nation and for certainly for the climates. Yeah, you know,
Speaker 3: it is the agenda that the president has. It is
Speaker 3: the most robust climate agenda, the most aggressive, the most
Speaker 3: forward leaning that we have ever seen in our lifetimes.
Speaker 3: It is the most as al Gore repeatedly says, it
Speaker 3: is the most significant in the world. When I talk
Speaker 3: to my counterparts in other countries, because every country has
Speaker 3: a Minister of Energy and we all meet regularly and talk.
Speaker 3: But they're all so envious of what the United States
Speaker 3: has done. And you know, some of them have been
Speaker 3: a little mad because we're attracting a lot of investment
Speaker 3: and jobs. But I keep saying to them, there is
Speaker 3: so much need out there, you guys should.
Speaker 4: Go do it too.
Speaker 3: There is so much need for everyone to be installing
Speaker 3: energy efficiency and clean energy in our countries. That don't
Speaker 3: let us hold you back.
Speaker 2: Yes, I love that.
Speaker 1: Obviously, it can be taxing to work in politics, particularly
Speaker 1: because when you hold a position like you do, you
Speaker 1: have to be very careful about, you know, following the
Speaker 1: rules and not saying the wrong thing. Can you say
Speaker 1: a little bit about what we might expect to hear
Speaker 1: from President Biden at the State of the Union. Is
Speaker 1: that is that allowed?
Speaker 3: That's allowed? I mean when I diagram hatched for those
Speaker 3: of you with the Hatch Act requires those of us
Speaker 3: who are in these positions to not be involved at
Speaker 3: all in partisan politics. So yes, we have to be
Speaker 3: careful about that, but that doesn't mean I can't trumpet
Speaker 3: what the president is doing is doing because that is super,
Speaker 3: super important. So yeah, I mean he's he's going to
Speaker 3: focus a lot on some of the things that we've
Speaker 3: talked about in terms of cost to your point about
Speaker 3: cracking down on the increasing costs, junk fees and all
Speaker 3: of that. That's you know, he's gonna he's going to
Speaker 3: talk about that. He's gonna, uh, he's going to present
Speaker 3: I think he's going to lay out the historic achievements
Speaker 3: right that he has delivered on and then his vision
Speaker 3: for the future. He that the fact that he has
Speaker 3: gotten more done in the first three years than most
Speaker 3: presidents have accomplished in two terms. He's going to talk about,
Speaker 3: you know, implementing this agenda from infrastructure and the Chips Act,
Speaker 3: that's the Act for for the for for chips, for computers,
Speaker 3: et cetera, and science to lowering drug prices again, lowering costs,
Speaker 3: get rid of getting rid of junk fees. He's going
Speaker 3: to talk about whose side he's on and the work
Speaker 3: ahead for the future to make life better for for
Speaker 3: every American so you know, giving people breathing room in
Speaker 3: terms of lower lowering costs, lowering healthcare premiums. UH taken
Speaker 3: on the drug companies to lower the cost of prescription drugs,
Speaker 3: making the corporations and the wealthy pay their fair share
Speaker 3: in taxes, putting the middle class first, saving our democracy,
Speaker 3: protecting women's reproductive health, the rights and the freedoms that
Speaker 3: are at stake in this very election nighting the country
Speaker 3: his unity. He's got a unity agenda like privacy and
Speaker 3: when don't you say unity, meaning that people on both
Speaker 3: sides should care about ensuring privacy online, big tech, you know,
Speaker 3: curbing fentanyl that's not partisan. Helping veterans is not partisan.
Speaker 3: Ending cancer is not partisan. So we're gonna get as
Speaker 3: much done as we can as soon as we can.
Speaker 3: We're gonna put the pedal to the medal this year,
Speaker 3: and so much more to do on a second term.
Speaker 1: And now a word from our sponsors, it's a lot.
Speaker 1: I mean these to your point, these are very big,
Speaker 1: audacious goals, and I think something that I have been
Speaker 1: really impressed by over the last three years is the
Speaker 1: capabilities of this administration to take on so many issues simultaneously.
Speaker 1: You know, the President seems to have done a very
Speaker 1: incredible job appointing folks such as yourself to run these
Speaker 1: enormous departments and really run with these directives to make
Speaker 1: things better and to advance us in terms of safety, technology,
Speaker 1: the economy, people's rights, you know. And I know you
Speaker 1: can't say it, but I can say it in the
Speaker 1: face of relentless partisan attacks that are frankly, as a citizen,
Speaker 1: exhausting to watch. I know you can't say anything again,
Speaker 1: but I can't imagine how it feels on the inside
Speaker 1: for you all to be battling this every day. But
Speaker 1: I just really want to say thank you, because the
Speaker 1: dedication must I mean, it must require an unbelievable amount
Speaker 1: of fortitude. But we see you and we appreciate you. Guys.
Speaker 3: That is so so nice. I can say that, you know,
Speaker 3: what fuels all of us is the work. And we
Speaker 3: love our boss and we're completely committed, and we love
Speaker 3: the fact that we're making impact in people's lives. And
Speaker 3: there's nothing more. I mean, you know, we don't get
Speaker 3: paid the big salaries or anything like that, but we
Speaker 3: get psychic wealth yea, in serving and I.
Speaker 2: Hope, you know, for people that's so cool.
Speaker 3: I hope folks think about it too for themselves. You
Speaker 3: know what this is working in public service, something that
Speaker 3: might intrigue you. You know, we've got a whole climate
Speaker 3: core for example, we're recruiting for We want people to
Speaker 3: be part of the change, and that can mean obviously
Speaker 3: activism on the outside, but could also mean working on
Speaker 3: the inside to implement an agenda. And I really encourage
Speaker 3: people to consider that as well.
Speaker 1: Yeah, what personally for you, what keeps you motivated?
Speaker 2: Oh?
Speaker 3: For sure, it is this, this agenda and an amazing
Speaker 3: team of people that I work with who are all
Speaker 3: equally fervently committed to healing our planet, having this impact
Speaker 3: in the world. And you know, there's something about feeling
Speaker 3: like metrics where you achieve a metric and you get
Speaker 3: to move and celebrate how much how many more gigawatts
Speaker 3: of clean energy are on the grid and this month
Speaker 3: or this year, how much CO two reduction did we see?
Speaker 3: You know, I mean things are happening out there that
Speaker 3: we get to demarket and that is fuel again. But
Speaker 3: I will say, you know, there's a lot of there's
Speaker 3: a lot of emotion, emotional attachment to you know, for example,
Speaker 3: we work in Puerto Rico. The President has charged the
Speaker 3: Department of Energy to lead rebuilding the Puerto Rican grid,
Speaker 3: which has been decimated by hurricanes and thousands of people
Speaker 3: have died in Hurricane Maria, et cetera. Just really horrible
Speaker 3: situation there. But rebuilding the grid to get to one
Speaker 3: hundred percent clean electricity and so being able to bring
Speaker 3: solar panels to homes in Puerto Rico is so gratifying.
Speaker 3: Was just there recently and the first the Congress gave
Speaker 3: us a billion dollars to be able to put on
Speaker 3: rooftop solar. Won't get everybody, but it will get the
Speaker 3: most vulnerable, the ones, the people who are medically who
Speaker 3: need medical devices that are dependent on electricity. And for
Speaker 3: Puerto Ricans, you know, clean energy, it's nice, but really
Speaker 3: it's resist Lilliancy. That is super important that you want
Speaker 3: the ability to access energy even when the grid goes down,
Speaker 3: and they have so much they can do that. So
Speaker 3: putting solar and batteries on homes is super important. So
Speaker 3: we went to this one house and the grandmother was
Speaker 3: there in a wheelchair. Her daughter has cancer and her
Speaker 3: grandson has cerebral palsy and he is connected to a
Speaker 3: breathing machine. Tiny home of poor family. When they signed
Speaker 3: up to get solar and storage, they cried, They hugged us.
Speaker 3: They said, you just don't know what this means to us.
Speaker 3: It means life to us. And those kind of moments,
Speaker 3: that kind of feeling like, you know, really people are
Speaker 3: being impacted by the work you do. There's nothing more
Speaker 3: priceless than that.
Speaker 2: That's so incredible.
Speaker 1: And you know when you talk about your own family,
Speaker 1: you know, your husband and encouraging you to go for
Speaker 1: it in the beginning of your career and BDAG and
Speaker 1: you know the fact that your kids were little.
Speaker 2: What what is it like for you now? I mean,
Speaker 2: how how.
Speaker 1: Do you juggle you know, your your life as an
Speaker 1: individual and and with your family and then this big
Speaker 1: public service job is it? Do you always just feel
Speaker 1: like you're spinning a lot of plates or do you
Speaker 1: guys have a great like divide and conquer sort of mentality.
Speaker 3: Oh, we definitely are spending a lot of plates. My
Speaker 3: kids are grown. I am children now and I live
Speaker 3: with one of my children and her husband and my
Speaker 3: two grandchildrens. I see them when I'm able to be
Speaker 3: home before they go to bed. I see them on
Speaker 3: the weekends if I am there for a weekend, but
Speaker 3: I feel connected to them very closely. So that takes
Speaker 3: a lot of uh, you know, that brings a lot
Speaker 3: of joy and a lot of balance. But that and
Speaker 3: you know, my husband lives with us too, so we
Speaker 3: are all together, and it's fantastic.
Speaker 2: That's so neat. That's so neat.
Speaker 1: So for those of us who are excited, who want
Speaker 1: to be more involved maybe who are looking for more information,
Speaker 1: are there news sources you'd point us to? Are their
Speaker 1: articles we should read? Who should we be following on
Speaker 1: social media so we can stay on top of what
Speaker 1: the administration's doing?
Speaker 2: What do we need to know?
Speaker 3: Yeah? I mean, first of all, you know, we encourage
Speaker 3: you to go to our fantastic website at energy dot gov.
Speaker 3: We also on that website we have you know, links
Speaker 3: to what we're doing obviously, and follow certainly me on
Speaker 3: Instagram and on on x I guess now and on LinkedIn.
Speaker 3: But I think that it's really important for people to
Speaker 3: to seek out podcasts that they're interested and I listen
Speaker 3: to a lot of nerdy energy podcasts, and for people
Speaker 3: who are energy nerds, there's a lot of really great
Speaker 3: ones out there, the Energy Gang, the Columbia Energy Exchange.
Speaker 3: You know, there's a lot of really fun and interesting
Speaker 3: podcasts if you're if you're interested in that. But I
Speaker 3: think it's really super important for people to you know,
Speaker 3: to get active, to get active and ensure that your
Speaker 3: voice is heard, make sure that you are aware of
Speaker 3: so many of these issues. I mean, a lot of
Speaker 3: times energy can be you know, there's a lot of
Speaker 3: science involved, obviously, and for folks who may not be
Speaker 3: so inclined that there's you know a lot of different
Speaker 3: types of energy, whether you're trying to at nuclear energy,
Speaker 3: fission or fusion and all of that, but it is
Speaker 3: it's whole fascinating to be able to read about and
Speaker 3: be part of and you don't have to be a scientist.
Speaker 3: So in addition to reading about it, I think people
Speaker 3: should take a look and see whether this is something
Speaker 3: they might be interested in pursuing, either either inside or outside,
Speaker 3: because it is really you know, community organizing is a
Speaker 3: huge part of energy. Designing programs is a huge part
Speaker 3: of energy. Inner governmental work is a huge part of
Speaker 3: energy in addition to the research and the development of it.
Speaker 3: So both on learning about it as well as on
Speaker 3: getting involved yourself from external and potentially raising your hand
Speaker 3: to work on the inside. There's nothing more important from
Speaker 3: my perspective long term as to what's happening to us.
Speaker 3: I mean, you read a story this morning that we're
Speaker 3: not going to have ice in the oceans anymore, and
Speaker 3: it's we've got to get I mean, our hair should
Speaker 3: be on fire because our planet is on fire, and
Speaker 3: we need people who are seriously committed to making change.
Speaker 3: We don't want people inside the department who are committed
Speaker 3: to the status quo or who are just here to
Speaker 3: pick up a paycheck. We got to have people who
Speaker 3: are really determined. And if folks who are listening are
Speaker 3: in that camp, we'd encourage you to apply the encourage
Speaker 3: you to come join us. That's so exciting, grateful for
Speaker 3: people like you who are you know, raising the flag
Speaker 3: and using your platform to be able to get the
Speaker 3: word out. I just can't thank you enough for that.
Speaker 1: Well thanks, I mean, my goodness, it's such a cool
Speaker 1: thing for me, you know, as an adult now to
Speaker 1: basically have an excuse to be my nerdiest self and
Speaker 1: ask fascinating people fascinating questions. When you think about the
Speaker 1: year ahead. I imagine all of these big, audacious goals
Speaker 1: feel like quite a work in progress. But you guys
Speaker 1: of the administration really have a game plan. What feels
Speaker 1: like a work in progress for you, so.
Speaker 3: Much is a work in progress. First thing that comes
Speaker 3: to mind when you say that is one of the
Speaker 3: things that the invest in America Agenda assigned to the
Speaker 3: Department of Energy and to the States is getting rebates
Speaker 3: in the hands of people who want to buy energy
Speaker 3: efficient appliances like heat pumps or induction stoves. And so
Speaker 3: we are working with the states because it's all going
Speaker 3: to go through state programs, but we want the states
Speaker 3: to get that money out and to have their programs
Speaker 3: designed so that people can access these rebates, you know,
Speaker 3: in their income dependent in most cases. But if you
Speaker 3: want to get an induction stove, you might be able
Speaker 3: to get hundreds, if not even more off of an
Speaker 3: induction stove for your home, and an induction stove for
Speaker 3: people who are unaware, it's the most efficient kind of stove,
Speaker 3: and we are strongly encouraging if people are interested for
Speaker 3: them to use them. A lot of people who use
Speaker 3: induction stoves won't ever go back because they love them. Similarly,
Speaker 3: I want to make sure people are aware of the
Speaker 3: tax credits for electric vehicles. For example, if you want
Speaker 3: to buy a used electric vehicle, you can get a
Speaker 3: four thousand dollars tax credit, but that not just to
Speaker 3: pick up on your taxes, but at the dealership off
Speaker 3: the top of the vehicle if you buy. If you
Speaker 3: want to buy a new electric vehicle, there's a lot
Speaker 3: of there's a wide range of kinds of electric vehicles.
Speaker 3: Obviously some super expensive, but there's some that are more affordable.
Speaker 3: And if you lease an electric vehicle, you can still
Speaker 3: get a seven five hundred dollars credit that you can
Speaker 3: take down the amount that you'll have to find it
Speaker 3: or if you want to buy it outright. So I
Speaker 3: want people to know those those are the catches for
Speaker 3: the purchase of an electric vehicle. The vehicle has to
Speaker 3: be made in the United States. If they lease an
Speaker 3: electric vehicle just has to be an electric vehicle doesn't
Speaker 3: have to be made in the United States. And if
Speaker 3: they buy used when it doesn't have to be made
Speaker 3: in the United States. But I want people to know
Speaker 3: what they can access. Similarly, for families that are really
Speaker 3: income constrained, that they can pick up the phone and
Speaker 3: call to get their home weatherized. So you could have
Speaker 3: somebody come in for free and install installation in their
Speaker 3: home in the attic, energy efficient windows, energy efficient doors,
Speaker 3: replace your light bulbs with lights. Get thirty percent off
Speaker 3: of your energy bill every month by just installing fit
Speaker 3: energy efficient technologies in your home, and that's for free,
Speaker 3: and you can call your local community action agency to
Speaker 3: see whether you qualify. So part of our work to
Speaker 3: do is getting the word out about these opportunities that
Speaker 3: are available for people as we move through this agenda.
Speaker 2: That's so cool, Thank you.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'd say we've still got a lot of work
Speaker 3: to do in a lot of things as well, including
Speaker 3: getting the price down for some of these advanced technologies
Speaker 3: that we are working on. So if I can just
Speaker 3: say a word about that. Yeah, you know, we have
Speaker 3: launched you know how there used to be a moonshot,
Speaker 3: We've launched a series of earth shots on how we
Speaker 3: want to bring down the cost of technologies so that
Speaker 3: they can be deployed more readily. So it's a little
Speaker 3: bit longer serving. So we're looking at how technology advances
Speaker 3: can bring down costs. So, for example, one of the
Speaker 3: most promising future technologies is clean hydrid, which is a
Speaker 3: form of energy storage and a form of clean energy,
Speaker 3: and we want to reduce the cost of that so
Speaker 3: that it's affordable across the board. And we've got all
Speaker 3: these hydrogen hubs across America that we've just launched to
Speaker 3: be able to do that. Another technology is offshore wind,
Speaker 3: but on floating platforms, so that the wind the platform
Speaker 3: can move and turn to wherever the wind is best
Speaker 3: situated and they don't have to be and especially for
Speaker 3: places like California where it's very deep and very steep.
Speaker 3: It's one of the most promising kinds of technologies that
Speaker 3: we're looking at. So there's just all sorts of really
Speaker 3: interesting next generation technologies. How to have a net zero home,
Speaker 3: how to have a home that is not producing any
Speaker 3: CO two and not using much energy except for I
Speaker 3: want that energy, I know, right, yeah, materials that you
Speaker 3: would be using for that. So there's a whole series
Speaker 3: of earth shots that we have taken to bring down
Speaker 3: the price and to make sure that we are doing
Speaker 3: all we can to deploy clean energy today and in
Speaker 3: the future.
Speaker 2: That's so cool.
Speaker 1: I can't wait to keep in touch about what our
Speaker 1: options are with our homes, because I'm ready to I'm
Speaker 1: ready to be a pilot house.
Speaker 3: Let's go, Oh do it? Do it a net zero
Speaker 3: or maybe even a CO two negative.
Speaker 2: I would love it. Sign me up.
Speaker 3: I was just at in southern California, actually at a
Speaker 3: community that is a net zero community where they're using
Speaker 3: for exit. They have solar, they have battery storage to
Speaker 3: save the solar energy so that you can use it
Speaker 3: at night. They have what is known as a virtual
Speaker 3: power plant where you can take your electric vehicle, you
Speaker 3: can charge it at home, and the electric vehicle actually
Speaker 3: provides power to the home itself, the battery and the
Speaker 3: electric vehicle. So it's two way charging, meaning that it
Speaker 3: takes a charge from the grid when the when you
Speaker 3: don't need it, it gives you power back or the
Speaker 3: or the power back when it's needed. I mean, those
Speaker 3: kinds of innovations are all coming down the pike, and
Speaker 3: it's very exciting.
Speaker 2: It's really really cool.
Speaker 1: It's a really nice reminder that there are possibilities we
Speaker 1: may not have even imagined yet that can solve the
Speaker 1: problems that we're currently living with. And it's really heartening
Speaker 1: to be reminded of the potential and to know that
Speaker 1: all of this is underway. So thank you for your dedication.
Speaker 1: Thank you for being so ferociously committed to this. We
Speaker 1: need you and we're grateful for you.
Speaker 3: Well, I appreciate the chance to be on to talk
Speaker 3: with you, and I certainly appreciate your activism and your
Speaker 3: advocacy and your strength and your voice.
Speaker 2: Thank you. It always just makes me so happy to
Speaker 2: see you well.
Speaker 3: Thanks so much for having me on. It makes me
Speaker 3: super happy to see you too.
Speaker 2: Thank you.
Speaker 1: You have a great rest of your day, and like
Speaker 1: I said, you let us know anything you need support
Speaker 1: on We're here.
Speaker 3: Thank you so much, appreciate it.
Speaker 2: Okay, thank you,