WEBVTT - Thinking Sideways: Princess Doe 0:00:00.400 --> 0:00:03.520 Thinking Sideways is not brought to you by a chipmunk 0:00:03.600 --> 0:00:07.240 with a grudge. Instead, it's brought to us by your 0:00:07.360 --> 0:00:12.039 amazing talents. Because we're looking for a new intro for 0:00:12.119 --> 0:00:15.560 the podcast, and we have a contest going. The contest 0:00:15.640 --> 0:00:19.880 is going until the thirty one of July, so go 0:00:19.960 --> 0:00:23.919 to our website, go to the contest page and check 0:00:23.960 --> 0:00:27.000 out the rules and all the information and get it 0:00:27.000 --> 0:00:37.640 into us soon. So get cracking Thinking Sideways. I'll broke 0:00:37.680 --> 0:00:46.400 the irears. I don't know stories of things we simply 0:00:46.440 --> 0:00:51.560 don't know the answer. Tune. Hey guys, welcome to another 0:00:51.600 --> 0:00:56.120 episode of Thinking Sideways the podcast. I am Devin, joined 0:00:56.360 --> 0:01:01.960 this week by Joe and Steve. We're recording like a 0:01:02.080 --> 0:01:06.440 week after Crime Con right now. It was fun. It 0:01:06.480 --> 0:01:08.800 was really fun. Not to like rub in the noses 0:01:08.840 --> 0:01:10.600 of the people who weren't able to come, but it 0:01:10.680 --> 0:01:18.160 was really fun every single one of you. Um So, 0:01:18.200 --> 0:01:20.920 I apologized for the little raspy nature of my voice. 0:01:21.959 --> 0:01:24.440 It's been a long couple of weeks. Uh. This week 0:01:25.440 --> 0:01:28.080 two of crime Con yeah kind of we do yeah, 0:01:28.080 --> 0:01:32.520 where everyone was just um hungover and sad about being there. 0:01:34.760 --> 0:01:38.120 Um So, today we are going to talk about a 0:01:38.200 --> 0:01:44.479 case called Princess Dough. And this is no Princess Dough. 0:01:45.480 --> 0:01:48.440 And this was the listener suggestion in July of two 0:01:48.440 --> 0:01:55.920 thousand fourteen. It was hunter. So thank you. It's not 0:01:56.000 --> 0:02:00.000 when it's not by any means of Mr cruel small 0:02:00.080 --> 0:02:04.080 ears warning, But we're going to talk about murder and 0:02:04.120 --> 0:02:06.880 stuff like that. So small ears warning. It's a medium. 0:02:08.200 --> 0:02:10.079 And I kissed today. They're raised and a diet of 0:02:10.160 --> 0:02:13.160 murdering mayhem. You know, there's nothing to them. It's true. 0:02:13.480 --> 0:02:17.960 So Princess Dough is a fifteen to twenty year old 0:02:18.040 --> 0:02:21.079 Jane Doe discovered on the grounds of a graveyard in Blairstown, 0:02:21.080 --> 0:02:27.600 New Jersey, on July fifteenth, nine two back. Princess Doe. Um, 0:02:27.720 --> 0:02:29.760 I think we'll probably just call her Princess from now on. 0:02:30.120 --> 0:02:33.120 You Princess a little simpler was found by a grave 0:02:33.160 --> 0:02:36.200 digger who was employed by the graveyard. Her face was 0:02:36.400 --> 0:02:39.560 quote unquote bludgeon beyond recognition. Is the nicest way that 0:02:39.600 --> 0:02:41.560 I've seen that put. Yeah, you know, I mean what 0:02:41.720 --> 0:02:44.720 my understanding is they couldn't identify the color of her eyes. Yes, 0:02:45.360 --> 0:02:47.960 we must have been one hack of a bludge. Pretty 0:02:48.000 --> 0:02:50.320 pretty Yeah, well, I see. I always wondered if that 0:02:50.520 --> 0:02:52.880 was because of the time that she spent there and 0:02:52.919 --> 0:02:54.359 so there was a little bit of d coop or 0:02:54.400 --> 0:02:58.040 if it was critters. They the investigators seemed to believe 0:02:58.040 --> 0:03:02.840 it was due to the beating de hopper critters were 0:03:02.880 --> 0:03:07.160 exploded because the rest of the body I knew her 0:03:07.240 --> 0:03:09.840 face was Yeah, but you know, like the tongue and 0:03:09.840 --> 0:03:11.920 things like that, would that would also be susceptible to 0:03:11.960 --> 0:03:16.000 critters were in fine condition. So good point. Welcome to 0:03:16.000 --> 0:03:21.880 the small ears. Yeah. Her body was found laying on 0:03:21.919 --> 0:03:25.880 its back with a red T shirt on her body, 0:03:28.000 --> 0:03:33.680 kind of like a peasanty blouse. Yeah. Yeah. And there 0:03:33.760 --> 0:03:38.680 was a long red kind of peasanty skirt, like a 0:03:38.680 --> 0:03:42.240 long flowy skirt that was laid over her legs or 0:03:42.320 --> 0:03:45.680 draped over her legs. She was wearing no underwear. She 0:03:45.760 --> 0:03:48.560 was wearing a gold cross necklace and earrings in her 0:03:48.640 --> 0:03:52.480 left ear, only pictures of which are available. They are 0:03:52.480 --> 0:03:56.720 her only. Her right hand had painted nails, which was 0:03:56.760 --> 0:03:58.960 in a matching red to the clothes that she was 0:03:59.360 --> 0:04:02.800 found in slash under. How often do women paint just 0:04:02.920 --> 0:04:06.880 one side and not the other? Um, It really depends 0:04:06.920 --> 0:04:11.080 on who is It really depends, um, you know, sometimes 0:04:11.280 --> 0:04:14.240 it's not so much that you've just painted the one hand. 0:04:14.720 --> 0:04:18.200 Oftentimes like a nervous ticks or to pull, like when 0:04:18.200 --> 0:04:20.600 I get really nervous, sometimes I'll pick up my nail 0:04:20.640 --> 0:04:23.920 polish and you just kind of Oftentimes people just pick 0:04:23.960 --> 0:04:26.479 at the one hand. You're sitting me watching me do 0:04:26.520 --> 0:04:29.440 this right now, miming that. And so it's possible that 0:04:29.480 --> 0:04:31.279 she just picked all of it off of one hand 0:04:31.320 --> 0:04:33.920 and not the other, especially if she was right handed. 0:04:33.960 --> 0:04:36.320 And well, there's also the fact that some people just 0:04:36.400 --> 0:04:38.840 can't take it when their nails get scraped up. And 0:04:38.880 --> 0:04:41.520 if you scrape I my wife is this way. She 0:04:41.600 --> 0:04:45.320 scrapes one nail and it's screwed up. She will then 0:04:45.360 --> 0:04:47.320 go ahead and just get out the nail polish remover 0:04:47.720 --> 0:04:50.680 and take it off and neither repaint the nail or 0:04:50.760 --> 0:04:54.040 just take the polish off entirely. Now, this dril might 0:04:54.040 --> 0:04:55.719 have been that, well, the one hands fine, but the 0:04:55.720 --> 0:04:58.080 other looks goofy. So I mean it's there's a whole 0:04:58.440 --> 0:05:02.239 spattering of ways. There's also a lot of conjecture online 0:05:02.279 --> 0:05:04.880 that says that this means that she must have been 0:05:04.920 --> 0:05:08.040 interrupted while painting her nails. But I don't think so, 0:05:08.160 --> 0:05:11.839 because they her nail posh wasn't It wasn't like smeared everywhere. 0:05:12.360 --> 0:05:16.039 It was dry. On the one hand, So it's it's 0:05:16.120 --> 0:05:18.920 unclear why that was. It is a bit of an 0:05:19.040 --> 0:05:22.600 identifying mark. It's possible she was interrupted in mid mid painting, 0:05:22.720 --> 0:05:26.520 but not by violence right away. So the perpetrator, like 0:05:26.640 --> 0:05:28.920 you know, knocks on her door and says, hey, I 0:05:28.960 --> 0:05:30.920 want to go to the graveyard hang out. And then 0:05:30.960 --> 0:05:33.840 so she you know, says okay and leaves with them 0:05:33.839 --> 0:05:35.919 blowing on her nails a little bit. But you know, 0:05:36.080 --> 0:05:38.440 it could have been something like that. I guess favorite 0:05:38.480 --> 0:05:41.920 moment of the podcast so far watching Joe do the blowing, 0:05:42.000 --> 0:05:44.600 the blowing of the nails, motion, shaking of the hand. 0:05:45.120 --> 0:05:51.320 This isn't this isn't alcoholism. This is trying to nail um. 0:05:51.440 --> 0:05:56.080 So she was estimated to be about five two five 0:05:56.360 --> 0:05:59.960 two inches tall. I've seen it as arrange from five 0:06:00.000 --> 0:06:02.760 two to five four. Yeah, but not. I'm not sure why. 0:06:02.960 --> 0:06:05.520 I'm not totally sure why you shrank if you're left 0:06:05.520 --> 0:06:08.080 out in the sun. I don't think you do. I'm 0:06:08.080 --> 0:06:10.599 going with five two. Also, because she was only a 0:06:10.640 --> 0:06:14.839 hundred and fifteen pounds, So I mean, you know, it's yeah, 0:06:15.040 --> 0:06:20.039 it's frankly, it's a skinny five two, that's yeah's relatively young, 0:06:21.520 --> 0:06:24.360 at least potentially, well, I mean yeah, I mean even 0:06:24.400 --> 0:06:26.680 twenty years old is pretty young. I was more leaning 0:06:26.680 --> 0:06:29.160 towards the fifteen would make sense. Why she's five two 0:06:29.200 --> 0:06:32.960 and only a D and fifteen. She had blonde hair, 0:06:33.200 --> 0:06:36.039 although previously mentioned, we don't know about her eye color. 0:06:37.120 --> 0:06:39.880 The coroner said that she was likely fourteen to eighteen 0:06:39.960 --> 0:06:43.000 years old, but um, a lot of other places I've 0:06:43.040 --> 0:06:46.120 read that the age range was fifteen to nineteen. So 0:06:46.240 --> 0:06:49.760 I guess the safest range would be sixteen to seventeen. 0:06:50.360 --> 0:06:52.720 Shoot for the middle, Shoot for the middle. She had 0:06:52.720 --> 0:06:58.720 all of her original parts, original carburetor, she hadn't had 0:06:58.760 --> 0:07:06.760 any surgeries or anything like that, kidneys, she had never 0:07:06.800 --> 0:07:10.360 given birth, and she had no scars remarks that they 0:07:10.400 --> 0:07:12.960 could see. I guess it's possible. I guess that there's 0:07:13.000 --> 0:07:15.920 a range in her face where she was beat so 0:07:15.960 --> 0:07:18.120 bad that they wouldn't have been able to see scars, 0:07:18.200 --> 0:07:23.040 but it wouldn't be discernible. Yeah, based on post damage. Yeah, Yeah, 0:07:23.080 --> 0:07:25.920 the most literally the most distinct part of her actually 0:07:26.040 --> 0:07:29.200 was that her front two teeth were a slightly different 0:07:29.200 --> 0:07:31.320 color from the rest of her teeth. That was the 0:07:31.360 --> 0:07:34.000 only thing that they could provide to say, Hey, if 0:07:34.040 --> 0:07:36.240 you know a blonde girl who has slightly different colored 0:07:36.240 --> 0:07:40.240 teeth that's missing, we might have found her. That Actually, 0:07:40.440 --> 0:07:42.920 believe it or not, is not all that uncommon, though. 0:07:43.600 --> 0:07:46.520 Oh the different teeth colors, it's not mine, aren't a 0:07:46.560 --> 0:07:48.720 little different. Well, I mean, I know folks who have 0:07:49.840 --> 0:07:54.360 fallen down and hit their head and damage the Is 0:07:54.400 --> 0:07:56.680 it the nerves, Yes, the nerves and their teeth, and 0:07:56.720 --> 0:08:00.120 so that the tooth is slowly dying, and that a 0:08:00.120 --> 0:08:02.960 lot of times is what causes that discoloration. Is as 0:08:03.000 --> 0:08:05.200 the tooth dies. You know, you've seen people with black 0:08:05.240 --> 0:08:07.960 teeth because the tooth is dead. So at that point, 0:08:08.040 --> 0:08:11.840 you know, cosmetic oral surgery was not a thing. So 0:08:11.880 --> 0:08:13.960 it was actually pretty common. Well, I mean, it's not 0:08:14.240 --> 0:08:17.800 so uncommon that you would just have less white teeth 0:08:17.800 --> 0:08:20.640 and certaineries. Yeah, there's always range kind of depends to 0:08:20.760 --> 0:08:23.920 and how big the contrast really was. Yeah, and I 0:08:24.000 --> 0:08:27.280 don't know the answer to that question. That spent thirty 0:08:27.280 --> 0:08:30.440 five years, and nobody's nobody's stepped forward yet. You have 0:08:30.520 --> 0:08:35.160 not yet. So Princess had fought back against her attacker. 0:08:35.480 --> 0:08:38.800 There were visible signs of defense on her hands, but 0:08:38.920 --> 0:08:42.800 she was very badly beaten and r fingernails. Maybe I 0:08:42.840 --> 0:08:48.120 don't think so this is a really wasn't well. They 0:08:48.120 --> 0:08:51.080 did preserve a lot of her body parts though, so 0:08:51.160 --> 0:08:55.000 that they could test DNA. It's true, but I don't 0:08:55.080 --> 0:08:57.560 think that there was anything under her fingernails or anything 0:08:57.600 --> 0:09:00.480 that didn't scratch the guy or anything. I guess I'm 0:09:00.520 --> 0:09:04.080 being sexist here. It could have been a person. So, 0:09:04.520 --> 0:09:06.640 and we were kind of hinted at this before, but 0:09:06.840 --> 0:09:11.200 her body was probably was out there for a couple 0:09:11.200 --> 0:09:15.200 of days at least, maybe more like a week. I 0:09:15.280 --> 0:09:17.800 did see one place that said she had definitely been 0:09:17.800 --> 0:09:21.480 out there for a month, but I don't think it was. 0:09:21.559 --> 0:09:24.520 It was a really really warm, very very humid time 0:09:24.559 --> 0:09:29.040 of year July, New Jersey. Yeah, so there was some 0:09:29.160 --> 0:09:34.040 decomposition happening to her for sure, um, but they did 0:09:34.120 --> 0:09:35.719 think that it was probably just a couple of days 0:09:35.800 --> 0:09:38.080 that her body was out there, and I would suspect 0:09:38.160 --> 0:09:40.880 that there the graveyard was also able to help a 0:09:40.880 --> 0:09:43.800 little bit in that you know, if they had groundskeepers, 0:09:44.240 --> 0:09:46.480 they would have hit that kind of area in a 0:09:46.840 --> 0:09:49.240 whatever given amount of time. You know, I gotta be 0:09:49.320 --> 0:09:51.840 honest with you, I'm not I'm surprised that they found 0:09:51.840 --> 0:09:54.040 her as soon as they did because if you watch 0:09:54.160 --> 0:09:57.040 the footage that that is out there of you know 0:09:57.080 --> 0:09:59.880 that the guys trying to climb up that in bank 0:10:00.280 --> 0:10:03.680 and get out of there, it is super steep. I 0:10:03.679 --> 0:10:08.160 mean we're talking like a seventy five degree angle. Yeah, 0:10:08.200 --> 0:10:11.839 I mean something a body rolls down and any kind 0:10:11.840 --> 0:10:14.520 of material from the area is stuck to it. It 0:10:14.520 --> 0:10:17.120 would be very easy to not see because who walks 0:10:17.160 --> 0:10:20.480 along the perimeter of that ravine looking down the whole time? 0:10:23.160 --> 0:10:25.640 That might be how she was found. It probably was, 0:10:25.720 --> 0:10:28.920 but I don't I don't think she did roll down 0:10:28.920 --> 0:10:32.000 the embankment because the skirt was laying on top of her. 0:10:34.240 --> 0:10:37.240 But if the body was dumped let's say ten or 0:10:37.240 --> 0:10:40.599 fifteen feet down, because I mean they they if you 0:10:40.600 --> 0:10:42.760 watch the footage of those guys crawling out of there 0:10:42.800 --> 0:10:45.400 with the body bag, I mean she was far enough 0:10:45.440 --> 0:10:48.760 down that they had to crawl, you know, three hands, 0:10:48.800 --> 0:10:51.560 one hand holding the strap and two ft in a 0:10:51.640 --> 0:10:54.360 hand pulling their selves up. I mean it's you know, 0:10:55.240 --> 0:10:56.599 I mean, she could have been dropped right out of 0:10:56.600 --> 0:10:58.840 the edge and it just slid down like it was 0:10:58.880 --> 0:11:01.800 a you know, earthen While that's true, that's true, Yeah, 0:11:02.360 --> 0:11:05.000 fair enough, Okay, But anyway, I doubt that she had 0:11:05.040 --> 0:11:08.280 been there a month now, that's that's successive. I think 0:11:08.280 --> 0:11:11.360 that the credits would have gotten to her. Absolutely, she 0:11:11.480 --> 0:11:14.760 and her her body would have decomposed. She was even 0:11:14.760 --> 0:11:17.800 there for a week. Really, the detective assigned to the 0:11:17.840 --> 0:11:20.280 case was actually the one to name her Princess Dough. 0:11:20.800 --> 0:11:24.760 I haven't seen anywhere why he called her that. My 0:11:24.880 --> 0:11:27.880 understanding is that he picked that name because he wanted 0:11:27.920 --> 0:11:31.280 to give her something other than Jane Doe, because, you know, 0:11:31.520 --> 0:11:34.480 for some reason, felt really bad about this young girl 0:11:34.520 --> 0:11:37.160 being dead. Yeah, and I seem to remember him in 0:11:37.200 --> 0:11:39.760 an interview I watched saying, well, she she had to 0:11:39.760 --> 0:11:42.920 have been somebody's princess. You know, somebody's a little girl 0:11:42.920 --> 0:11:45.240 at one point who was a princess, and so somehow 0:11:45.280 --> 0:11:48.880 that's stuck in his head. Okay, I saw that stuff too, 0:11:48.880 --> 0:11:52.319 but I guess I just didn't. I didn't think no, no, 0:11:52.400 --> 0:11:56.679 And I'm amazed this guy like really really just has 0:11:56.840 --> 0:11:59.400 hung onto this case. It's amazing the lengths that he's gone. 0:11:59.559 --> 0:12:04.280 His name as Lieutenant Eric Krantz. He's now retired. This 0:12:04.360 --> 0:12:07.920 case really touched the small community in New Jersey. Uh. 0:12:08.000 --> 0:12:11.360 They gave her a proper burial, and a local who 0:12:11.440 --> 0:12:14.000 was just four at the time. His name is Travis Riggs. 0:12:14.559 --> 0:12:17.760 He even called a start a website called Princess Doe 0:12:17.760 --> 0:12:20.720 dot Org. I think the website is now defunct because 0:12:20.760 --> 0:12:22.959 I did try to reach out to Travis via the 0:12:23.000 --> 0:12:26.640 website and got one of those you know, Maillard Damon. Yeah, 0:12:26.960 --> 0:12:29.000 it looks like he hasn't been doing anything for least 0:12:29.040 --> 0:12:34.280 three or four years, because I was accountable a movement here, 0:12:34.320 --> 0:12:37.320 and there's a movement. But I just thought it was 0:12:37.360 --> 0:12:40.320 incredible that somebody who was four at the time was 0:12:40.360 --> 0:12:42.640 so struck by this case that he would devote any 0:12:42.640 --> 0:12:46.000 amount of time, you know, spending. I got the feeling 0:12:46.040 --> 0:12:48.040 that this is probably one of those things. It's it's 0:12:48.120 --> 0:12:50.559 kind of like the oh gosh, I can't remember the 0:12:50.600 --> 0:12:52.600 case we were talking about the other day, where it's 0:12:52.640 --> 0:12:59.319 just everybody in town is always speculating about it. Our 0:12:59.360 --> 0:13:05.760 Indiana Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, um, I think that's 0:13:05.800 --> 0:13:08.360 probably true since this was in the eighties. As we 0:13:08.400 --> 0:13:13.440 also kind of mentioned before, testing DNA testing particularly um, 0:13:13.520 --> 0:13:16.080 but just testing in general was not where it is 0:13:16.120 --> 0:13:18.959 today and probably will not be where you future people 0:13:19.000 --> 0:13:23.040 are listening to us in you know, you're laughing at 0:13:23.080 --> 0:13:26.839 us for our crew techniques. Yeah, you know, watching us 0:13:26.840 --> 0:13:30.760 on holophoners or whatever, laughing as we talked into microphones. 0:13:31.320 --> 0:13:36.000 Nobody uses those. But luckily, um, the investigators did have 0:13:36.040 --> 0:13:42.040 the foresight to preserve samples and not and not and 0:13:42.160 --> 0:13:44.800 preserve them in a way that they were actually preserved 0:13:44.840 --> 0:13:48.760 and they didn't get usable. This is the makings of 0:13:48.760 --> 0:13:52.440 a Forensic Files episode. I swear to god, if it 0:13:52.480 --> 0:13:54.480 had been solved, it would definitely have been featured on 0:13:54.520 --> 0:13:57.960 their Forensic Scientists in two thousand twelve were able to 0:13:58.000 --> 0:14:01.240 assess samples of both her hair and her teeth, and 0:14:01.280 --> 0:14:03.800 it allowed investigators to get a better picture of where 0:14:03.840 --> 0:14:08.280 Princess was from. Somewhere North or South America, Yeah, somewhere 0:14:08.480 --> 0:14:15.000 where blonde people are from. The sample of her hair was, um, 0:14:15.040 --> 0:14:17.480 it was pretty easy to analyze, and I I have 0:14:17.559 --> 0:14:20.520 to be honest, I pulled this like pretty much verbatim 0:14:20.560 --> 0:14:22.960 off of the Internet, because these people are smarter than me, 0:14:23.080 --> 0:14:27.440 and I can't I can't rewrite this. Um. So the 0:14:27.520 --> 0:14:30.080 hair indicated that she had lived at least seven to 0:14:30.120 --> 0:14:34.000 ten months in a Midwestern or northeastern state of the 0:14:34.080 --> 0:14:37.280 United States. UM, somewhat recently. I presume since I got 0:14:37.320 --> 0:14:39.840 it from her hair, it was within less eight months 0:14:40.000 --> 0:14:43.800 something like that. Yeah, I mean, yeah, probably because you know, 0:14:43.840 --> 0:14:46.920 hair grows long, but it falls out pretty pretty frequently. 0:14:46.960 --> 0:14:50.200 So UM and her the sample of her tooth indicated 0:14:50.280 --> 0:14:53.520 that she might be from Arizona, but it also was 0:14:53.640 --> 0:14:56.160 believed that she had spent a long period of time 0:14:56.240 --> 0:14:58.960 in Long Island, New York. And they figured all that 0:14:59.000 --> 0:15:02.400 out because of the the trace minerals and things like 0:15:02.440 --> 0:15:04.440 that that we're in it based on what you would 0:15:04.480 --> 0:15:07.120 find in the water. Water in Arizona is much different 0:15:07.120 --> 0:15:10.200 than water in New Jersey when you take it at 0:15:10.320 --> 0:15:13.680 you know, a base mineral count totally and the and yeah, 0:15:13.800 --> 0:15:16.280 the makeup of it is different. And because your body 0:15:16.320 --> 0:15:19.520 absorbs that, it's then you know, you can test for that, 0:15:19.640 --> 0:15:22.400 right exactly. This is a simplest version of how that worked. Yeah, 0:15:22.760 --> 0:15:26.600 So this was obviously really big news. And to the 0:15:26.600 --> 0:15:29.880 point where they even set up some mannequin, a mannequin 0:15:30.360 --> 0:15:35.000 with Princess Doe's clothes on it. It was pretty weird. Um. 0:15:35.920 --> 0:15:40.480 And the facial reconstructions of her are like really subpar, 0:15:41.800 --> 0:15:44.720 kind of weird. I mean they're not I mean, we've 0:15:44.720 --> 0:15:50.560 seen some very interesting reconstructions in our lives, but they're passable. 0:15:50.560 --> 0:15:52.840 But they're all kind of they don't look like real 0:15:52.920 --> 0:15:55.400 humans really at all. Makes you wonder if they if 0:15:55.400 --> 0:15:58.400 they were. They were having trouble really piecing together the 0:15:58.400 --> 0:16:02.400 pr well, and not all of it was done right away. 0:16:02.480 --> 0:16:07.040 Krantz kept trying to keep the case alive, uh, and 0:16:07.080 --> 0:16:09.280 so he would he would try and generate more interest 0:16:09.360 --> 0:16:11.760 in it, and so he would get the department to 0:16:11.800 --> 0:16:14.120 pay for a guy to come in and do a 0:16:14.160 --> 0:16:17.320 reconstructed drawing of her. But you know, that's well, and 0:16:17.320 --> 0:16:20.560 they've been updated ones and based on new technology and 0:16:20.600 --> 0:16:23.960 all that stuff. The reconstructions were they were, they would 0:16:23.960 --> 0:16:27.000 have been tough. I mean, she was very badly beaten, 0:16:27.000 --> 0:16:29.360 and but they did, you know, they were trying to 0:16:29.480 --> 0:16:31.880 keep the case alive. So they did this thing where 0:16:31.880 --> 0:16:34.560 they put her clothes on a mannequin and actually that 0:16:34.640 --> 0:16:38.920 did generate some leads. A woman who saw the images 0:16:39.160 --> 0:16:43.080 of the mannequin set up with this girl's clothes in 0:16:43.080 --> 0:16:47.320 a newspaper article said that she remembered seeing the girl 0:16:47.400 --> 0:16:51.000 wearing or a girl wearing the same clothing as Princess 0:16:51.040 --> 0:16:56.360 Dough on July and which have been two days before. 0:16:56.800 --> 0:16:59.400 But that was like two days before she was discovered. 0:16:59.480 --> 0:17:02.160 But she came forward months later. I thought it was 0:17:02.200 --> 0:17:05.080 like years later. Was it once? It was years later? Yeah, 0:17:05.080 --> 0:17:07.439 And it was just I find that hard to believe. 0:17:07.600 --> 0:17:10.679 Kind of well, I mean, not only she remembered that 0:17:10.720 --> 0:17:13.120 far back the exact outfit, but also the exact date, 0:17:13.160 --> 0:17:16.640 and that's kind of you know, yeah, I don't know, Yeah, 0:17:16.680 --> 0:17:20.520 I mean, I agree, But also it is interesting. Yeah, 0:17:20.560 --> 0:17:22.960 well maybe she's got a photographic memory. I don't know, maybe, 0:17:23.640 --> 0:17:26.280 the woman said. I mean, so the reason that she 0:17:26.359 --> 0:17:30.359 said that she remembered seeing this girl, I presume, you know, 0:17:30.400 --> 0:17:32.720 like I when I was little, like I would go 0:17:32.760 --> 0:17:35.280 shopping with my mom as a special thing. You know. 0:17:35.320 --> 0:17:38.000 It wasn't like we go shopping for clothes all the time. 0:17:38.040 --> 0:17:41.359 And so it's possible that no, so it's possible that 0:17:41.400 --> 0:17:43.960 this was a special occasion. Which is why the date stuck, 0:17:44.040 --> 0:17:47.600 and that that outfit is a pretty unique outfit, and 0:17:47.880 --> 0:17:50.879 if she was like, oh, I saw someone wearing something 0:17:50.920 --> 0:17:53.560 that looked a lot like that on this special day 0:17:53.560 --> 0:17:56.280 that we had, and we talked about how weird this 0:17:56.320 --> 0:17:58.720 woman was or this girl was dressed and what was 0:17:58.800 --> 0:18:01.960 she doing. I didn't think her those were all that weird. Actually, well, 0:18:02.440 --> 0:18:04.800 it could be just a conversation. What what she's saying, 0:18:04.840 --> 0:18:06.640 you know, is it could be they had a conversation 0:18:06.680 --> 0:18:10.359 about the outfit, good, bad or in different Yea, I 0:18:10.359 --> 0:18:12.960 have conversations about outfits all the time because some judges 0:18:13.040 --> 0:18:18.640 heck ya, wait, wait till you walk out of her room, Joe, 0:18:18.720 --> 0:18:22.880 she said some horrible things. You know, we really should 0:18:22.880 --> 0:18:28.840 go to the mall sometime. I don't. Um So. Actually, 0:18:29.119 --> 0:18:31.800 they were able also to trace the shirt and the 0:18:31.880 --> 0:18:37.600 skirt to a manufacturer in the Midwestern United States of America, 0:18:37.880 --> 0:18:42.080 but the brand labels were missing, which was well, I 0:18:42.119 --> 0:18:44.760 was just gonna say, which isn't all that suspicious because 0:18:44.880 --> 0:18:47.400 I sometimes cut labels out of my clothing because they're 0:18:48.000 --> 0:18:52.160 so scratchy, especially when you buy cheap clothes, they're super scratchy. 0:18:52.200 --> 0:18:55.600 And I suspect that if this girl has never been identified, 0:18:55.880 --> 0:18:58.639 she probably wasn't from a family of means that was 0:18:58.640 --> 0:19:04.040 providing for her, so she's probably buying cheap clothes. Yeah, people, 0:19:04.840 --> 0:19:08.360 Three or four people actually reported that they had purchased 0:19:08.440 --> 0:19:12.520 similar clothing at a Long Island store which is now 0:19:12.560 --> 0:19:16.159 closed obviously, but it's not clear if that was a 0:19:16.240 --> 0:19:19.080 chain store or if it was just like a one 0:19:19.080 --> 0:19:22.760 off boutique or something like that. So, um, you know, 0:19:22.840 --> 0:19:24.480 this is something I didn't see, and I'm just gonna 0:19:24.480 --> 0:19:28.800 ask you because I'm dumb, like that the clothes were 0:19:28.840 --> 0:19:33.960 they considered to actually be relatively new when her body 0:19:34.040 --> 0:19:37.120 was discovered. They weren't something that, say, could be a 0:19:37.160 --> 0:19:41.560 five year old dress, ensures that were lightning worn or something. Yeah, 0:19:41.600 --> 0:19:45.159 I have no idea. I suspect they were considered to 0:19:45.200 --> 0:19:47.760 be relatively new, given the number of people who were 0:19:47.800 --> 0:19:50.800 able to say that they purchased clothes similar to that 0:19:51.800 --> 0:19:55.439 within a fairly short time period. Okay, I just I 0:19:55.520 --> 0:19:58.280 know fashion is is very fickle and things come and 0:19:58.320 --> 0:20:01.880 go quite quickly, and so that's what makes me think 0:20:02.040 --> 0:20:06.720 that it probably was fairly recent. Pictures online of the 0:20:06.760 --> 0:20:09.320 clothes to where these same clothes that she was wearing, 0:20:09.440 --> 0:20:13.600 the red shirt, and yeah, they don't look too afraid. No, 0:20:13.760 --> 0:20:16.440 I think they were. And you know there's little things 0:20:16.480 --> 0:20:20.359 like there's a tiny like along the collar and the 0:20:20.480 --> 0:20:23.400 hem piping, there's a little bit of well, it's not 0:20:23.720 --> 0:20:25.760 you could call it piping. She's about to geek out. 0:20:25.840 --> 0:20:29.240 I'm you know, enough of a closer to tell you 0:20:29.280 --> 0:20:33.120 it's not actually piping. But there's um some very thin 0:20:33.760 --> 0:20:39.399 velveteen ribbon that they use as trim along the neck 0:20:39.520 --> 0:20:43.639 and the the waist and or the hem sorry of 0:20:43.720 --> 0:20:46.160 the shark. And you know that's the sort of stuff 0:20:46.200 --> 0:20:49.479 that goes kind of south pretty quick. It shows where quickly, 0:20:50.040 --> 0:20:52.040 um so I said. And they looked like they were 0:20:52.040 --> 0:20:55.120 in fine condition, not great, but you know, fine conditions. 0:20:55.119 --> 0:20:57.959 So I suspect it was they were fairly new. So 0:20:58.000 --> 0:21:01.479 we're almost two theories. But before we start talking about theories, 0:21:01.520 --> 0:21:05.119 we do need to talk about MTVS fear. I have 0:21:05.200 --> 0:21:08.600 a lot of fear of MTV. Yeah, I never saw it. 0:21:08.920 --> 0:21:13.800 This is from this is from Wikipedia. Um So, I'm 0:21:13.840 --> 0:21:17.320 admitting that I did almost no research on fear. You're 0:21:17.359 --> 0:21:20.520 not missing anything. And I watched this show. Yeah, oh 0:21:20.560 --> 0:21:23.560 like once or twice and it was so dumb. That's 0:21:23.560 --> 0:21:25.880 where they believe people like alone in a haunted house 0:21:25.960 --> 0:21:29.399 or something like that. Roup of people here, promoted as 0:21:29.560 --> 0:21:33.760 MTVS Fear is an American paranor I'm literally reading wikipedi 0:21:33.880 --> 0:21:36.840 right now, guys, I'm admitting it is an American paranormal 0:21:36.880 --> 0:21:40.600 reality to television series that originally aired from two thousand 0:21:40.600 --> 0:21:43.879 two or from two thousand to two thousand two on MTV. 0:21:44.440 --> 0:21:47.119 The program follows a group of five or more contestants 0:21:47.240 --> 0:21:51.199 being left at an allegedly haunted location and led them 0:21:51.280 --> 0:21:53.720 on a series of dares over two nights to explore 0:21:53.760 --> 0:21:55.919 and confirm whether or not the place was haunted. This 0:21:56.080 --> 0:22:00.159 this was a cheap knockoff of Survivors. What this was? 0:22:00.200 --> 0:22:05.440 This has been reality TV suddenly started becoming bigger than 0:22:05.480 --> 0:22:07.440 it had ever been because it was like Survivor, it 0:22:07.520 --> 0:22:09.520 was kind of small. And also it was like everybody's 0:22:09.560 --> 0:22:13.320 doing it and they all made the crappiest shows. So 0:22:13.440 --> 0:22:16.479 did anybody get killed at least? No, damn it. There 0:22:16.520 --> 0:22:19.000 are a lot of you know, mannequins were thrown at people, 0:22:19.040 --> 0:22:21.720 but that's about it. Yeah, So stick your hand in 0:22:21.760 --> 0:22:24.439 a bucket of spiders. Maybe there was an episode in 0:22:24.480 --> 0:22:28.600 the first season that featured a totally fictionalized version of 0:22:28.600 --> 0:22:32.280 Princess Doe's story, which has added to a lot of 0:22:32.320 --> 0:22:38.240 confusion around the case. In MTVS Fear, Princess was portrayed 0:22:38.280 --> 0:22:40.920 as a victim of occult sacrifice. Wasn't there a head? 0:22:41.000 --> 0:22:46.080 Supposedly she was decapsuated, And yeah, totally, there's literally no reason, 0:22:46.960 --> 0:22:52.720 literally no reason to literally no reason to think that 0:22:53.080 --> 0:22:56.720 this is true. In Princess's case, she was not captated, 0:22:56.760 --> 0:22:59.000 she had her hands, and she was not a cult 0:22:59.080 --> 0:23:03.359 sacrifice could have been called sacrificed, not likely, no evidence 0:23:03.400 --> 0:23:09.680 to indicate, So stop it to stop, no stop. Yeah, 0:23:10.640 --> 0:23:13.080 So with all of that haven't been said, we're going 0:23:13.119 --> 0:23:16.520 to get into theories. But first we're gonna take a 0:23:16.560 --> 0:23:22.760 quick break. Can you imagine working under backbreaking conditions day 0:23:22.880 --> 0:23:25.800 after day after day and having to eat the same 0:23:25.840 --> 0:23:29.760