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Speaker 1: Thinking Sideways is not brought to you by a chipmunk

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Speaker 1: with a grudge. Instead, it's brought to us by your

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Speaker 1: amazing talents. Because we're looking for a new intro for

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Speaker 1: the podcast, and we have a contest going. The contest

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Speaker 1: is going until the thirty one of July, so go

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Speaker 1: to our website, go to the contest page and check

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Speaker 1: out the rules and all the information and get it

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Speaker 1: into us soon. So get cracking Thinking Sideways. I'll broke

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Speaker 1: the irears. I don't know stories of things we simply

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Speaker 1: don't know the answer. Tune. Hey guys, welcome to another

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Speaker 1: episode of Thinking Sideways the podcast. I am Devin, joined

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Speaker 1: this week by Joe and Steve. We're recording like a

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Speaker 1: week after Crime Con right now. It was fun. It

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Speaker 1: was really fun. Not to like rub in the noses

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Speaker 1: of the people who weren't able to come, but it

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Speaker 1: was really fun every single one of you. Um So,

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Speaker 1: I apologized for the little raspy nature of my voice.

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Speaker 1: It's been a long couple of weeks. Uh. This week

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Speaker 1: two of crime Con yeah kind of we do yeah,

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Speaker 1: where everyone was just um hungover and sad about being there.

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Speaker 1: Um So, today we are going to talk about a

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Speaker 1: case called Princess Dough. And this is no Princess Dough.

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Speaker 1: And this was the listener suggestion in July of two

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Speaker 1: thousand fourteen. It was hunter. So thank you. It's not

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Speaker 1: when it's not by any means of Mr cruel small

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Speaker 1: ears warning, But we're going to talk about murder and

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Speaker 1: stuff like that. So small ears warning. It's a medium.

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Speaker 1: And I kissed today. They're raised and a diet of

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Speaker 1: murdering mayhem. You know, there's nothing to them. It's true.

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Speaker 1: So Princess Dough is a fifteen to twenty year old

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Speaker 1: Jane Doe discovered on the grounds of a graveyard in Blairstown,

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Speaker 1: New Jersey, on July fifteenth, nine two back. Princess Doe. Um,

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Speaker 1: I think we'll probably just call her Princess from now on.

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Speaker 1: You Princess a little simpler was found by a grave

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Speaker 1: digger who was employed by the graveyard. Her face was

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Speaker 1: quote unquote bludgeon beyond recognition. Is the nicest way that

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Speaker 1: I've seen that put. Yeah, you know, I mean what

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Speaker 1: my understanding is they couldn't identify the color of her eyes. Yes,

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Speaker 1: we must have been one hack of a bludge. Pretty

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Speaker 1: pretty Yeah, well, I see. I always wondered if that

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Speaker 1: was because of the time that she spent there and

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Speaker 1: so there was a little bit of d coop or

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Speaker 1: if it was critters. They the investigators seemed to believe

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Speaker 1: it was due to the beating de hopper critters were

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Speaker 1: exploded because the rest of the body I knew her

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Speaker 1: face was Yeah, but you know, like the tongue and

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Speaker 1: things like that, would that would also be susceptible to

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Speaker 1: critters were in fine condition. So good point. Welcome to

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Speaker 1: the small ears. Yeah. Her body was found laying on

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Speaker 1: its back with a red T shirt on her body,

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Speaker 1: kind of like a peasanty blouse. Yeah. Yeah. And there

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Speaker 1: was a long red kind of peasanty skirt, like a

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Speaker 1: long flowy skirt that was laid over her legs or

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Speaker 1: draped over her legs. She was wearing no underwear. She

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Speaker 1: was wearing a gold cross necklace and earrings in her

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Speaker 1: left ear, only pictures of which are available. They are

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Speaker 1: her only. Her right hand had painted nails, which was

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Speaker 1: in a matching red to the clothes that she was

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Speaker 1: found in slash under. How often do women paint just

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Speaker 1: one side and not the other? Um, It really depends

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Speaker 1: on who is It really depends, um, you know, sometimes

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Speaker 1: it's not so much that you've just painted the one hand.

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Speaker 1: Oftentimes like a nervous ticks or to pull, like when

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Speaker 1: I get really nervous, sometimes I'll pick up my nail

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Speaker 1: polish and you just kind of Oftentimes people just pick

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Speaker 1: at the one hand. You're sitting me watching me do

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Speaker 1: this right now, miming that. And so it's possible that

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Speaker 1: she just picked all of it off of one hand

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Speaker 1: and not the other, especially if she was right handed.

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Speaker 1: And well, there's also the fact that some people just

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Speaker 1: can't take it when their nails get scraped up. And

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Speaker 1: if you scrape I my wife is this way. She

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Speaker 1: scrapes one nail and it's screwed up. She will then

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Speaker 1: go ahead and just get out the nail polish remover

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Speaker 1: and take it off and neither repaint the nail or

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Speaker 1: just take the polish off entirely. Now, this dril might

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Speaker 1: have been that, well, the one hands fine, but the

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Speaker 1: other looks goofy. So I mean it's there's a whole

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Speaker 1: spattering of ways. There's also a lot of conjecture online

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Speaker 1: that says that this means that she must have been

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Speaker 1: interrupted while painting her nails. But I don't think so,

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Speaker 1: because they her nail posh wasn't It wasn't like smeared everywhere.

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Speaker 1: It was dry. On the one hand, So it's it's

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Speaker 1: unclear why that was. It is a bit of an

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Speaker 1: identifying mark. It's possible she was interrupted in mid mid painting,

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Speaker 1: but not by violence right away. So the perpetrator, like

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Speaker 1: you know, knocks on her door and says, hey, I

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Speaker 1: want to go to the graveyard hang out. And then

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Speaker 1: so she you know, says okay and leaves with them

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Speaker 1: blowing on her nails a little bit. But you know,

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Speaker 1: it could have been something like that. I guess favorite

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Speaker 1: moment of the podcast so far watching Joe do the blowing,

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Speaker 1: the blowing of the nails, motion, shaking of the hand.

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Speaker 1: This isn't this isn't alcoholism. This is trying to nail um.

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Speaker 1: So she was estimated to be about five two five

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Speaker 1: two inches tall. I've seen it as arrange from five

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Speaker 1: two to five four. Yeah, but not. I'm not sure why.

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Speaker 1: I'm not totally sure why you shrank if you're left

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Speaker 1: out in the sun. I don't think you do. I'm

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Speaker 1: going with five two. Also, because she was only a

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Speaker 1: hundred and fifteen pounds, So I mean, you know, it's yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's frankly, it's a skinny five two, that's yeah's relatively young,

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Speaker 1: at least potentially, well, I mean yeah, I mean even

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Speaker 1: twenty years old is pretty young. I was more leaning

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Speaker 1: towards the fifteen would make sense. Why she's five two

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Speaker 1: and only a D and fifteen. She had blonde hair,

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Speaker 1: although previously mentioned, we don't know about her eye color.

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Speaker 1: The coroner said that she was likely fourteen to eighteen

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Speaker 1: years old, but um, a lot of other places I've

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Speaker 1: read that the age range was fifteen to nineteen. So

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Speaker 1: I guess the safest range would be sixteen to seventeen.

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Speaker 1: Shoot for the middle, Shoot for the middle. She had

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Speaker 1: all of her original parts, original carburetor, she hadn't had

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Speaker 1: any surgeries or anything like that, kidneys, she had never

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Speaker 1: given birth, and she had no scars remarks that they

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Speaker 1: could see. I guess it's possible. I guess that there's

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Speaker 1: a range in her face where she was beat so

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Speaker 1: bad that they wouldn't have been able to see scars,

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Speaker 1: but it wouldn't be discernible. Yeah, based on post damage. Yeah, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: the most literally the most distinct part of her actually

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Speaker 1: was that her front two teeth were a slightly different

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Speaker 1: color from the rest of her teeth. That was the

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Speaker 1: only thing that they could provide to say, Hey, if

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Speaker 1: you know a blonde girl who has slightly different colored

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Speaker 1: teeth that's missing, we might have found her. That Actually,

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Speaker 1: believe it or not, is not all that uncommon, though.

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Speaker 1: Oh the different teeth colors, it's not mine, aren't a

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Speaker 1: little different. Well, I mean, I know folks who have

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Speaker 1: fallen down and hit their head and damage the Is

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Speaker 1: it the nerves, Yes, the nerves and their teeth, and

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Speaker 1: so that the tooth is slowly dying, and that a

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Speaker 1: lot of times is what causes that discoloration. Is as

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Speaker 1: the tooth dies. You know, you've seen people with black

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Speaker 1: teeth because the tooth is dead. So at that point,

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Speaker 1: you know, cosmetic oral surgery was not a thing. So

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Speaker 1: it was actually pretty common. Well, I mean, it's not

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Speaker 1: so uncommon that you would just have less white teeth

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Speaker 1: and certaineries. Yeah, there's always range kind of depends to

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Speaker 1: and how big the contrast really was. Yeah, and I

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Speaker 1: don't know the answer to that question. That spent thirty

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Speaker 1: five years, and nobody's nobody's stepped forward yet. You have

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Speaker 1: not yet. So Princess had fought back against her attacker.

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Speaker 1: There were visible signs of defense on her hands, but

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Speaker 1: she was very badly beaten and r fingernails. Maybe I

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Speaker 1: don't think so this is a really wasn't well. They

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Speaker 1: did preserve a lot of her body parts though, so

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Speaker 1: that they could test DNA. It's true, but I don't

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Speaker 1: think that there was anything under her fingernails or anything

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Speaker 1: that didn't scratch the guy or anything. I guess I'm

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Speaker 1: being sexist here. It could have been a person. So,

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Speaker 1: and we were kind of hinted at this before, but

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Speaker 1: her body was probably was out there for a couple

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Speaker 1: of days at least, maybe more like a week. I

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Speaker 1: did see one place that said she had definitely been

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Speaker 1: out there for a month, but I don't think it was.

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Speaker 1: It was a really really warm, very very humid time

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Speaker 1: of year July, New Jersey. Yeah, so there was some

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Speaker 1: decomposition happening to her for sure, um, but they did

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Speaker 1: think that it was probably just a couple of days

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Speaker 1: that her body was out there, and I would suspect

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Speaker 1: that there the graveyard was also able to help a

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Speaker 1: little bit in that you know, if they had groundskeepers,

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Speaker 1: they would have hit that kind of area in a

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Speaker 1: whatever given amount of time. You know, I gotta be

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Speaker 1: honest with you, I'm not I'm surprised that they found

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Speaker 1: her as soon as they did because if you watch

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Speaker 1: the footage that that is out there of you know

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Speaker 1: that the guys trying to climb up that in bank

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Speaker 1: and get out of there, it is super steep. I

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Speaker 1: mean we're talking like a seventy five degree angle. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I mean something a body rolls down and any kind

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Speaker 1: of material from the area is stuck to it. It

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Speaker 1: would be very easy to not see because who walks

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Speaker 1: along the perimeter of that ravine looking down the whole time?

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Speaker 1: That might be how she was found. It probably was,

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Speaker 1: but I don't I don't think she did roll down

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Speaker 1: the embankment because the skirt was laying on top of her.

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Speaker 1: But if the body was dumped let's say ten or

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Speaker 1: fifteen feet down, because I mean they they if you

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Speaker 1: watch the footage of those guys crawling out of there

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Speaker 1: with the body bag, I mean she was far enough

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Speaker 1: down that they had to crawl, you know, three hands,

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Speaker 1: one hand holding the strap and two ft in a

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Speaker 1: hand pulling their selves up. I mean it's you know,

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Speaker 1: I mean, she could have been dropped right out of

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Speaker 1: the edge and it just slid down like it was

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Speaker 1: a you know, earthen While that's true, that's true, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: fair enough, Okay, But anyway, I doubt that she had

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Speaker 1: been there a month now, that's that's successive. I think

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Speaker 1: that the credits would have gotten to her. Absolutely, she

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Speaker 1: and her her body would have decomposed. She was even

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Speaker 1: there for a week. Really, the detective assigned to the

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Speaker 1: case was actually the one to name her Princess Dough.

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Speaker 1: I haven't seen anywhere why he called her that. My

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Speaker 1: understanding is that he picked that name because he wanted

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Speaker 1: to give her something other than Jane Doe, because, you know,

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Speaker 1: for some reason, felt really bad about this young girl

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Speaker 1: being dead. Yeah, and I seem to remember him in

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Speaker 1: an interview I watched saying, well, she she had to

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Speaker 1: have been somebody's princess. You know, somebody's a little girl

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Speaker 1: at one point who was a princess, and so somehow

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Speaker 1: that's stuck in his head. Okay, I saw that stuff too,

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Speaker 1: but I guess I just didn't. I didn't think no, no,

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Speaker 1: And I'm amazed this guy like really really just has

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Speaker 1: hung onto this case. It's amazing the lengths that he's gone.

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Speaker 1: His name as Lieutenant Eric Krantz. He's now retired. This

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Speaker 1: case really touched the small community in New Jersey. Uh.

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Speaker 1: They gave her a proper burial, and a local who

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Speaker 1: was just four at the time. His name is Travis Riggs.

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Speaker 1: He even called a start a website called Princess Doe

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Speaker 1: dot Org. I think the website is now defunct because

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Speaker 1: I did try to reach out to Travis via the

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Speaker 1: website and got one of those you know, Maillard Damon. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it looks like he hasn't been doing anything for least

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Speaker 1: three or four years, because I was accountable a movement here,

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Speaker 1: and there's a movement. But I just thought it was

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Speaker 1: incredible that somebody who was four at the time was

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Speaker 1: so struck by this case that he would devote any

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Speaker 1: amount of time, you know, spending. I got the feeling

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Speaker 1: that this is probably one of those things. It's it's

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Speaker 1: kind of like the oh gosh, I can't remember the

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Speaker 1: case we were talking about the other day, where it's

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Speaker 1: just everybody in town is always speculating about it. Our

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Speaker 1: Indiana Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, um, I think that's

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Speaker 1: probably true since this was in the eighties. As we

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Speaker 1: also kind of mentioned before, testing DNA testing particularly um,

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Speaker 1: but just testing in general was not where it is

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Speaker 1: today and probably will not be where you future people

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Speaker 1: are listening to us in you know, you're laughing at

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Speaker 1: us for our crew techniques. Yeah, you know, watching us

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Speaker 1: on holophoners or whatever, laughing as we talked into microphones.

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Speaker 1: Nobody uses those. But luckily, um, the investigators did have

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Speaker 1: the foresight to preserve samples and not and not and

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Speaker 1: preserve them in a way that they were actually preserved

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Speaker 1: and they didn't get usable. This is the makings of

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Speaker 1: a Forensic Files episode. I swear to god, if it

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Speaker 1: had been solved, it would definitely have been featured on

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Speaker 1: their Forensic Scientists in two thousand twelve were able to

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Speaker 1: assess samples of both her hair and her teeth, and

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Speaker 1: it allowed investigators to get a better picture of where

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Speaker 1: Princess was from. Somewhere North or South America, Yeah, somewhere

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Speaker 1: where blonde people are from. The sample of her hair was, um,

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Speaker 1: it was pretty easy to analyze, and I I have

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Speaker 1: to be honest, I pulled this like pretty much verbatim

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Speaker 1: off of the Internet, because these people are smarter than me,

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Speaker 1: and I can't I can't rewrite this. Um. So the

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Speaker 1: hair indicated that she had lived at least seven to

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Speaker 1: ten months in a Midwestern or northeastern state of the

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Speaker 1: United States. UM, somewhat recently. I presume since I got

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Speaker 1: it from her hair, it was within less eight months

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Speaker 1: something like that. Yeah, I mean, yeah, probably because you know,

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Speaker 1: hair grows long, but it falls out pretty pretty frequently.

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Speaker 1: So UM and her the sample of her tooth indicated

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Speaker 1: that she might be from Arizona, but it also was

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Speaker 1: believed that she had spent a long period of time

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Speaker 1: in Long Island, New York. And they figured all that

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Speaker 1: out because of the the trace minerals and things like

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Speaker 1: that that we're in it based on what you would

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Speaker 1: find in the water. Water in Arizona is much different

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Speaker 1: than water in New Jersey when you take it at

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Speaker 1: you know, a base mineral count totally and the and yeah,

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Speaker 1: the makeup of it is different. And because your body

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Speaker 1: absorbs that, it's then you know, you can test for that,

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Speaker 1: right exactly. This is a simplest version of how that worked. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: So this was obviously really big news. And to the

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Speaker 1: point where they even set up some mannequin, a mannequin

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Speaker 1: with Princess Doe's clothes on it. It was pretty weird. Um.

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Speaker 1: And the facial reconstructions of her are like really subpar,

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Speaker 1: kind of weird. I mean they're not I mean, we've

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Speaker 1: seen some very interesting reconstructions in our lives, but they're passable.

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Speaker 1: But they're all kind of they don't look like real

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Speaker 1: humans really at all. Makes you wonder if they if

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Speaker 1: they were. They were having trouble really piecing together the

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Speaker 1: pr well, and not all of it was done right away.

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Speaker 1: Krantz kept trying to keep the case alive, uh, and

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Speaker 1: so he would he would try and generate more interest

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Speaker 1: in it, and so he would get the department to

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Speaker 1: pay for a guy to come in and do a

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Speaker 1: reconstructed drawing of her. But you know, that's well, and

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Speaker 1: they've been updated ones and based on new technology and

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Speaker 1: all that stuff. The reconstructions were they were, they would

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Speaker 1: have been tough. I mean, she was very badly beaten,

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Speaker 1: and but they did, you know, they were trying to

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Speaker 1: keep the case alive. So they did this thing where

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Speaker 1: they put her clothes on a mannequin and actually that

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Speaker 1: did generate some leads. A woman who saw the images

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Speaker 1: of the mannequin set up with this girl's clothes in

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Speaker 1: a newspaper article said that she remembered seeing the girl

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Speaker 1: wearing or a girl wearing the same clothing as Princess

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Speaker 1: Dough on July and which have been two days before.

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Speaker 1: But that was like two days before she was discovered.

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Speaker 1: But she came forward months later. I thought it was

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Speaker 1: like years later. Was it once? It was years later? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: And it was just I find that hard to believe.

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Speaker 1: Kind of well, I mean, not only she remembered that

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Speaker 1: far back the exact outfit, but also the exact date,

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Speaker 1: and that's kind of you know, yeah, I don't know, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I mean, I agree, But also it is interesting. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: well maybe she's got a photographic memory. I don't know, maybe,

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Speaker 1: the woman said. I mean, so the reason that she

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Speaker 1: said that she remembered seeing this girl, I presume, you know,

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Speaker 1: like I when I was little, like I would go

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Speaker 1: shopping with my mom as a special thing. You know.

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Speaker 1: It wasn't like we go shopping for clothes all the time.

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Speaker 1: And so it's possible that no, so it's possible that

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Speaker 1: this was a special occasion. Which is why the date stuck,

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Speaker 1: and that that outfit is a pretty unique outfit, and

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Speaker 1: if she was like, oh, I saw someone wearing something

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Speaker 1: that looked a lot like that on this special day

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Speaker 1: that we had, and we talked about how weird this

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Speaker 1: woman was or this girl was dressed and what was

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Speaker 1: she doing. I didn't think her those were all that weird. Actually, well,

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Speaker 1: it could be just a conversation. What what she's saying,

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Speaker 1: you know, is it could be they had a conversation

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Speaker 1: about the outfit, good, bad or in different Yea, I

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Speaker 1: have conversations about outfits all the time because some judges

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Speaker 1: heck ya, wait, wait till you walk out of her room, Joe,

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Speaker 1: she said some horrible things. You know, we really should

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Speaker 1: go to the mall sometime. I don't. Um So. Actually,

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Speaker 1: they were able also to trace the shirt and the

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Speaker 1: skirt to a manufacturer in the Midwestern United States of America,

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Speaker 1: but the brand labels were missing, which was well, I

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Speaker 1: was just gonna say, which isn't all that suspicious because

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Speaker 1: I sometimes cut labels out of my clothing because they're

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Speaker 1: so scratchy, especially when you buy cheap clothes, they're super scratchy.

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Speaker 1: And I suspect that if this girl has never been identified,

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Speaker 1: she probably wasn't from a family of means that was

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Speaker 1: providing for her, so she's probably buying cheap clothes. Yeah, people,

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Speaker 1: Three or four people actually reported that they had purchased

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Speaker 1: similar clothing at a Long Island store which is now

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Speaker 1: closed obviously, but it's not clear if that was a

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Speaker 1: chain store or if it was just like a one

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Speaker 1: off boutique or something like that. So, um, you know,

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Speaker 1: this is something I didn't see, and I'm just gonna

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Speaker 1: ask you because I'm dumb, like that the clothes were

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Speaker 1: they considered to actually be relatively new when her body

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Speaker 1: was discovered. They weren't something that, say, could be a

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Speaker 1: five year old dress, ensures that were lightning worn or something. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I have no idea. I suspect they were considered to

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Speaker 1: be relatively new, given the number of people who were

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Speaker 1: able to say that they purchased clothes similar to that

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Speaker 1: within a fairly short time period. Okay, I just I

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Speaker 1: know fashion is is very fickle and things come and

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Speaker 1: go quite quickly, and so that's what makes me think

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Speaker 1: that it probably was fairly recent. Pictures online of the

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Speaker 1: clothes to where these same clothes that she was wearing,

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Speaker 1: the red shirt, and yeah, they don't look too afraid. No,

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Speaker 1: I think they were. And you know there's little things

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Speaker 1: like there's a tiny like along the collar and the

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00:20:20,480 --> 00:20:23,400
Speaker 1: hem piping, there's a little bit of well, it's not

351
00:20:23,720 --> 00:20:25,760
Speaker 1: you could call it piping. She's about to geek out.

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00:20:25,840 --> 00:20:29,240
Speaker 1: I'm you know, enough of a closer to tell you

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Speaker 1: it's not actually piping. But there's um some very thin

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Speaker 1: velveteen ribbon that they use as trim along the neck

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Speaker 1: and the the waist and or the hem sorry of

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Speaker 1: the shark. And you know that's the sort of stuff

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Speaker 1: that goes kind of south pretty quick. It shows where quickly,

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Speaker 1: um so I said. And they looked like they were

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Speaker 1: in fine condition, not great, but you know, fine conditions.

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Speaker 1: So I suspect it was they were fairly new. So

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Speaker 1: we're almost two theories. But before we start talking about theories,

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00:21:01,520 --> 00:21:05,119
Speaker 1: we do need to talk about MTVS fear. I have

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00:21:05,200 --> 00:21:08,600
Speaker 1: a lot of fear of MTV. Yeah, I never saw it.

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00:21:08,920 --> 00:21:13,800
Speaker 1: This is from this is from Wikipedia. Um So, I'm

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00:21:13,840 --> 00:21:17,320
Speaker 1: admitting that I did almost no research on fear. You're

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00:21:17,359 --> 00:21:20,520
Speaker 1: not missing anything. And I watched this show. Yeah, oh

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Speaker 1: like once or twice and it was so dumb. That's

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Speaker 1: where they believe people like alone in a haunted house

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Speaker 1: or something like that. Roup of people here, promoted as

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Speaker 1: MTVS Fear is an American paranor I'm literally reading wikipedi

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Speaker 1: right now, guys, I'm admitting it is an American paranormal

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Speaker 1: reality to television series that originally aired from two thousand

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Speaker 1: two or from two thousand to two thousand two on MTV.

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Speaker 1: The program follows a group of five or more contestants

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Speaker 1: being left at an allegedly haunted location and led them

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Speaker 1: on a series of dares over two nights to explore

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00:21:53,760 --> 00:21:55,919
Speaker 1: and confirm whether or not the place was haunted. This

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00:21:56,080 --> 00:22:00,159
Speaker 1: this was a cheap knockoff of Survivors. What this was?

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Speaker 1: This has been reality TV suddenly started becoming bigger than

380
00:22:05,480 --> 00:22:07,440
Speaker 1: it had ever been because it was like Survivor, it

381
00:22:07,520 --> 00:22:09,520
Speaker 1: was kind of small. And also it was like everybody's

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00:22:09,560 --> 00:22:13,320
Speaker 1: doing it and they all made the crappiest shows. So

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00:22:13,440 --> 00:22:16,479
Speaker 1: did anybody get killed at least? No, damn it. There

384
00:22:16,520 --> 00:22:19,000
Speaker 1: are a lot of you know, mannequins were thrown at people,

385
00:22:19,040 --> 00:22:21,720
Speaker 1: but that's about it. Yeah, So stick your hand in

386
00:22:21,760 --> 00:22:24,439
Speaker 1: a bucket of spiders. Maybe there was an episode in

387
00:22:24,480 --> 00:22:28,600
Speaker 1: the first season that featured a totally fictionalized version of

388
00:22:28,600 --> 00:22:32,280
Speaker 1: Princess Doe's story, which has added to a lot of

389
00:22:32,320 --> 00:22:38,240
Speaker 1: confusion around the case. In MTVS Fear, Princess was portrayed

390
00:22:38,280 --> 00:22:40,920
Speaker 1: as a victim of occult sacrifice. Wasn't there a head?

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00:22:41,000 --> 00:22:46,080
Speaker 1: Supposedly she was decapsuated, And yeah, totally, there's literally no reason,

392
00:22:46,960 --> 00:22:52,720
Speaker 1: literally no reason to literally no reason to think that

393
00:22:53,080 --> 00:22:56,720
Speaker 1: this is true. In Princess's case, she was not captated,

394
00:22:56,760 --> 00:22:59,000
Speaker 1: she had her hands, and she was not a cult

395
00:22:59,080 --> 00:23:03,359
Speaker 1: sacrifice could have been called sacrificed, not likely, no evidence

396
00:23:03,400 --> 00:23:09,680
Speaker 1: to indicate, So stop it to stop, no stop. Yeah,

397
00:23:10,640 --> 00:23:13,080
Speaker 1: So with all of that haven't been said, we're going

398
00:23:13,119 --> 00:23:16,520
Speaker 1: to get into theories. But first we're gonna take a

399
00:23:16,560 --> 00:23:22,760
Speaker 1: quick break. Can you imagine working under backbreaking conditions day

400
00:23:22,880 --> 00:23:25,800
Speaker 1: after day after day and having to eat the same

401
00:23:25,840 --> 00:23:29,760
Speaker 1: thing night after night after night. Heart tack and thin

402
00:23:29,880 --> 00:23:33,159
Speaker 1: soups would be your culinary reward for hauling sale in

403
00:23:33,200 --> 00:23:37,400
Speaker 1: the blazing sun and the pounding rain, And only occasionally,

404
00:23:37,600 --> 00:23:40,000
Speaker 1: while at anchor would you and Quick wagg be able

405
00:23:40,040 --> 00:23:42,960
Speaker 1: to find a place like the tiny pots that served

406
00:23:42,960 --> 00:23:45,639
Speaker 1: a meal to die for. The great thing is you

407
00:23:45,640 --> 00:23:48,600
Speaker 1: don't have to travel to eat like that. You can

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Speaker 1: do it from the comfort of your own home with

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426
00:24:55,160 --> 00:24:59,640
Speaker 1: we have two big headings and then subheadings and then

427
00:24:59,680 --> 00:25:03,480
Speaker 1: stub headings too big. We need to talk about who

428
00:25:03,600 --> 00:25:06,679
Speaker 1: Princess Dough might have been, and we also need to

429
00:25:06,680 --> 00:25:10,240
Speaker 1: talk about who might have done this to Princess do Good.

430
00:25:10,320 --> 00:25:13,840
Speaker 1: Questions off, So let's talk about who Princess Dough might

431
00:25:13,840 --> 00:25:18,080
Speaker 1: have been. First. There are a couple interesting theories out there.

432
00:25:18,080 --> 00:25:22,240
Speaker 1: I guess there's really only two names that have ever

433
00:25:22,440 --> 00:25:24,879
Speaker 1: kind of stuck. And then a lot of sort of

434
00:25:24,960 --> 00:25:31,480
Speaker 1: random speculation. Yeah, but the biggest one is Diane Janese die.

435
00:25:31,840 --> 00:25:36,119
Speaker 1: For many years, actually, Princess Doe was thought to have

436
00:25:36,200 --> 00:25:41,200
Speaker 1: been Diane. She was a missing teenager from San Jose, California.

437
00:25:41,600 --> 00:25:44,679
Speaker 1: She never turn up. She never did no she she

438
00:25:44,800 --> 00:25:52,720
Speaker 1: disappeared on July in se um. This theory was kind

439
00:25:52,760 --> 00:25:57,680
Speaker 1: of propagated by several law enforcement. The word you're looking

440
00:25:57,680 --> 00:26:00,840
Speaker 1: for is pushed. Where did they get the idea from? Though?

441
00:26:01,359 --> 00:26:03,800
Speaker 1: I don't really know, you know, I guess it's because

442
00:26:03,800 --> 00:26:05,720
Speaker 1: it's just an old case. There's a bunch of different

443
00:26:05,760 --> 00:26:09,439
Speaker 1: ideas that have put forward, and but it's time or

444
00:26:09,440 --> 00:26:12,359
Speaker 1: whatever the reasons they think these things have sort of

445
00:26:12,400 --> 00:26:14,720
Speaker 1: gone away. You can't find them. I think you know.

446
00:26:14,800 --> 00:26:17,760
Speaker 1: The other thing is people, if you find something that

447
00:26:17,840 --> 00:26:22,560
Speaker 1: kind of fits, you can close two cases. And sometimes

448
00:26:22,560 --> 00:26:26,119
Speaker 1: it's just better to you know, willfully be ignorant about

449
00:26:26,359 --> 00:26:29,040
Speaker 1: the whole situation. Well in a way for the family,

450
00:26:29,119 --> 00:26:34,040
Speaker 1: it's it's a method too though incorrect give the family closure. Yeah,

451
00:26:34,359 --> 00:26:36,760
Speaker 1: And I don't I don't think that's fair. I don't

452
00:26:36,760 --> 00:26:40,359
Speaker 1: think that really does anybody any favors. But I don't know. Um,

453
00:26:40,440 --> 00:26:44,640
Speaker 1: but there were actually some law enforcement officials in New

454
00:26:44,720 --> 00:26:48,560
Speaker 1: Jersey who actually even how how to press conference that

455
00:26:48,880 --> 00:26:58,440
Speaker 1: they officially identified so yeah, as Dane Die, Lieutenant Krantz. Remember, Yeah,

456
00:26:59,240 --> 00:27:02,680
Speaker 1: he maintained the Diane Die was not a good candidate

457
00:27:02,840 --> 00:27:08,880
Speaker 1: for Princess Doe as an identity. He just didn't think

458
00:27:09,040 --> 00:27:12,880
Speaker 1: they fit, which is fair. They didn't really look too

459
00:27:12,880 --> 00:27:16,720
Speaker 1: too much alike, and um, he just overall just didn't

460
00:27:16,720 --> 00:27:18,760
Speaker 1: agree and you know, and the yeah, they just he

461
00:27:18,840 --> 00:27:23,000
Speaker 1: just didn't really agree with that assessment. So he actually

462
00:27:23,440 --> 00:27:27,960
Speaker 1: convinced Diane's family and the investigators in California who were

463
00:27:28,000 --> 00:27:34,240
Speaker 1: searching for Diane to give some samples of DNA to

464
00:27:34,320 --> 00:27:38,040
Speaker 1: be compared. So in two thousand three, Princess Doe's DNA

465
00:27:38,280 --> 00:27:43,719
Speaker 1: was compared with the DNA sample from Diane's mother, Patricia DNA, like,

466
00:27:43,800 --> 00:27:48,000
Speaker 1: so maternal DNA which will conclusively say, yes, this DNA

467
00:27:48,200 --> 00:27:50,720
Speaker 1: came from you know, is the child of this person

468
00:27:50,840 --> 00:27:56,119
Speaker 1: or not? And um, Patricia was ruled out as the

469
00:27:56,200 --> 00:28:02,879
Speaker 1: mother of Princess Dough. So Diane die too bad for

470
00:28:02,920 --> 00:28:04,600
Speaker 1: the family. I guess it would have been kind of

471
00:28:04,720 --> 00:28:07,119
Speaker 1: nice in a way, you know, it would have. But also,

472
00:28:08,160 --> 00:28:10,280
Speaker 1: you know, I guess I'm always want to think like

473
00:28:10,359 --> 00:28:13,760
Speaker 1: that just brings hope that maybe, I mean, maybe Diane

474
00:28:13,800 --> 00:28:17,359
Speaker 1: is still alive out there somewhere. Maybe she'd be you know,

475
00:28:17,760 --> 00:28:21,600
Speaker 1: in her for change her name to Lori Erica Rough

476
00:28:22,119 --> 00:28:25,439
Speaker 1: and she's doing well, yeah, doing great, Yeah, really great.

477
00:28:26,080 --> 00:28:28,399
Speaker 1: So not that, but that's one of the biggest theories

478
00:28:28,440 --> 00:28:30,440
Speaker 1: you'll see. And actually there are still people on the

479
00:28:30,480 --> 00:28:34,160
Speaker 1: internet who say, oh, you know, Princess Doe is Diane die,

480
00:28:34,400 --> 00:28:38,719
Speaker 1: but they've never read the research. Apparently, well, it's actually

481
00:28:38,800 --> 00:28:43,400
Speaker 1: not completely impossible. I mean, if one when Diane was born,

482
00:28:43,560 --> 00:28:46,800
Speaker 1: if she was actually accidentally switched with another baby, then

483
00:28:46,800 --> 00:28:49,880
Speaker 1: obviously it would be a it would be a startling

484
00:28:50,040 --> 00:28:55,560
Speaker 1: set of coincidences. But it is technically I can wrap

485
00:28:55,560 --> 00:28:58,560
Speaker 1: my head around it. You can win the lottery. Yeah. Um,

486
00:28:59,480 --> 00:29:03,760
Speaker 1: somebody put this on my script, wasn't me you? Joe

487
00:29:04,960 --> 00:29:12,760
Speaker 1: theorem two point five that Princess Doe was actually Patricia Vaughan. Um,

488
00:29:12,800 --> 00:29:15,840
Speaker 1: this is similar to Diane Die. And then people have

489
00:29:16,040 --> 00:29:18,520
Speaker 1: put it out there because well it the one looks

490
00:29:18,520 --> 00:29:20,640
Speaker 1: well that looks good about it is. She disappeared two

491
00:29:20,640 --> 00:29:25,040
Speaker 1: months before Princess Doe turned up. She went missing from

492
00:29:25,080 --> 00:29:28,680
Speaker 1: West Virginia, so kind of I think she was originally

493
00:29:28,720 --> 00:29:32,480
Speaker 1: like raised Connecticut, but was actually in West New England

494
00:29:32,720 --> 00:29:37,200
Speaker 1: sort of. I mean, but you know, closer than Oregon is,

495
00:29:39,000 --> 00:29:42,360
Speaker 1: and she was she was Do you remember how old

496
00:29:42,400 --> 00:29:46,440
Speaker 1: she was too? I don't. I don't remember. She was

497
00:29:46,520 --> 00:29:49,560
Speaker 1: in the age. I think she was twenty, so she

498
00:29:49,640 --> 00:29:51,600
Speaker 1: was on the upper end of the age bracket. That

499
00:29:51,720 --> 00:29:54,480
Speaker 1: was some reason. I'm taking nineteen nineteen or twenty still

500
00:29:54,520 --> 00:29:57,240
Speaker 1: the upper end of the age bracket. And she wasn't

501
00:29:57,400 --> 00:30:05,160
Speaker 1: reported missing until ninete five. That's kind of interesting, baffling. Yeah,

502
00:30:05,240 --> 00:30:08,840
Speaker 1: I agree. And now now there's actually a Facebook page

503
00:30:09,080 --> 00:30:14,120
Speaker 1: for Patricia. Yeah, so they wait thirteen years. Now they're

504
00:30:14,160 --> 00:30:18,880
Speaker 1: really into it on facebook page. Yeah. Um, and you know,

505
00:30:19,320 --> 00:30:21,760
Speaker 1: I guess, fine, why not. You know, she was blonde

506
00:30:21,920 --> 00:30:24,640
Speaker 1: and technically kind of in the age range. But well,

507
00:30:24,680 --> 00:30:26,560
Speaker 1: and if you look at photographs, there's a couple of

508
00:30:26,600 --> 00:30:29,320
Speaker 1: photos that were out there. She looks the shape of

509
00:30:29,320 --> 00:30:32,160
Speaker 1: her face and everything. Well. The thing about the great

510
00:30:32,200 --> 00:30:35,080
Speaker 1: thing about Princess though, is there's so many different sketches

511
00:30:35,080 --> 00:30:37,480
Speaker 1: and reconstructions that you know, you can find one that

512
00:30:37,520 --> 00:30:40,600
Speaker 1: looks like just about anybody. That's true. Yeah, I mean yeah,

513
00:30:41,160 --> 00:30:43,320
Speaker 1: meshed up with a lot of people. Yeah, but um,

514
00:30:43,640 --> 00:30:47,200
Speaker 1: one of the big problems is her height. Patricia was

515
00:30:47,320 --> 00:30:50,760
Speaker 1: like five right, yeah, there is that. Yeah. She also

516
00:30:51,160 --> 00:30:54,560
Speaker 1: had um in her name. I don't remember which one

517
00:30:54,600 --> 00:30:58,280
Speaker 1: it is, Charlie project posting maybe Um she had a

518
00:30:58,320 --> 00:31:02,479
Speaker 1: broken arm, and she'd had her tonsils out and her

519
00:31:02,520 --> 00:31:06,600
Speaker 1: wisdom teeth were impacted, and Princess Do didn't have any

520
00:31:06,600 --> 00:31:09,880
Speaker 1: of those things. So, um, I don't think it's good

521
00:31:09,920 --> 00:31:14,120
Speaker 1: match at all. No, probably not. I don't know why.

522
00:31:14,160 --> 00:31:16,200
Speaker 1: I've actually I've seen this not just on the Internet

523
00:31:16,240 --> 00:31:18,719
Speaker 1: but in news accounts. Although you know, of course I've

524
00:31:18,720 --> 00:31:21,040
Speaker 1: seen on news accounts, journalism whatever. It's the same as

525
00:31:21,040 --> 00:31:24,720
Speaker 1: the Internet, I guess, yeah, yeah, yeah, So that's those

526
00:31:24,760 --> 00:31:27,240
Speaker 1: are the only two named people that we really added.

527
00:31:28,000 --> 00:31:31,360
Speaker 1: One theory is that Princess Dough is a runaway or

528
00:31:31,400 --> 00:31:37,960
Speaker 1: a prostitute. Was The theory goes predictably that princess ran away.

529
00:31:38,240 --> 00:31:41,000
Speaker 1: Um maybe she was Vaughan. Maybe she ran away, and

530
00:31:41,040 --> 00:31:44,760
Speaker 1: then she was a well known in Ocean City, Maryland,

531
00:31:44,760 --> 00:31:46,960
Speaker 1: either as being a runaway or as a prostitute, or

532
00:31:46,960 --> 00:31:51,840
Speaker 1: perhaps both, um um. And this is another sory that

533
00:31:51,880 --> 00:31:54,760
Speaker 1: I just yeah, where the hell it came from. Yeah,

534
00:31:54,840 --> 00:31:58,600
Speaker 1: So the idea that she was a well known prostitute

535
00:31:58,640 --> 00:32:01,320
Speaker 1: at a local truck stop, I guess. And there's a

536
00:32:01,320 --> 00:32:03,600
Speaker 1: big problem with this, and that is that not a

537
00:32:03,640 --> 00:32:06,920
Speaker 1: single person came forward and said they recognized her. On

538
00:32:06,960 --> 00:32:10,560
Speaker 1: the other hand, I'll go ahead and say that if

539
00:32:10,600 --> 00:32:13,720
Speaker 1: she was indeed underaged, I don't know a single person

540
00:32:13,760 --> 00:32:17,640
Speaker 1: who would be like, oh, yeah, I know that prostitute

541
00:32:17,200 --> 00:32:21,440
Speaker 1: that I've been sleeping with. No, you don't say that.

542
00:32:21,560 --> 00:32:23,640
Speaker 1: I'm sorry, you just don't. I mean, even if you're

543
00:32:23,640 --> 00:32:27,120
Speaker 1: a really good person and you really you want to help, Well,

544
00:32:27,400 --> 00:32:29,440
Speaker 1: that's such a thing as like, you know, writing a

545
00:32:29,440 --> 00:32:31,720
Speaker 1: little note and dropping it in the mail. That's my thought.

546
00:32:32,200 --> 00:32:34,360
Speaker 1: There's such a thing as an anonymous phone call from

547
00:32:34,360 --> 00:32:37,719
Speaker 1: a pay phone. So that's why I think that probably

548
00:32:37,880 --> 00:32:41,200
Speaker 1: she was not a prostitute somehow, But somehow I've been

549
00:32:41,320 --> 00:32:44,200
Speaker 1: I've been doing a lot of research about girls that

550
00:32:44,240 --> 00:32:47,560
Speaker 1: are in this situation, you know, of of falling into

551
00:32:47,600 --> 00:32:51,680
Speaker 1: prostitution as a means to survive, and there's a whole

552
00:32:51,720 --> 00:32:55,800
Speaker 1: bunch of different ways to cope. Some get on drugs

553
00:32:55,880 --> 00:32:58,320
Speaker 1: and they become very well known because they're they're just

554
00:32:58,600 --> 00:33:01,000
Speaker 1: trying so hard all the time, because they're not only

555
00:33:01,080 --> 00:33:04,840
Speaker 1: trying to support themselves but a habit. There are others

556
00:33:04,840 --> 00:33:08,440
Speaker 1: who are very standoffish. They they're clean, but they go

557
00:33:08,640 --> 00:33:11,080
Speaker 1: they meet a john, they do what they gotta do,

558
00:33:11,480 --> 00:33:14,280
Speaker 1: and then they take off and they're just moving around

559
00:33:14,280 --> 00:33:17,200
Speaker 1: and they're not staying in the same place. And those girls,

560
00:33:17,280 --> 00:33:20,080
Speaker 1: the second one I'm mentioning, those are the ones that

561
00:33:20,160 --> 00:33:24,440
Speaker 1: it's easiest for them to disappear and nobody knows because

562
00:33:24,720 --> 00:33:27,520
Speaker 1: they're not in one place long enough. Like this whole

563
00:33:27,640 --> 00:33:30,640
Speaker 1: she was at particular truck stop, a whatever like that

564
00:33:30,680 --> 00:33:33,960
Speaker 1: doesn't make sense, but these girls bounced around. You meet

565
00:33:34,000 --> 00:33:37,320
Speaker 1: a guy, you make a couple of bucks off him,

566
00:33:37,680 --> 00:33:40,440
Speaker 1: you talk him into giving you a ride to the

567
00:33:40,480 --> 00:33:43,479
Speaker 1: next major truck stop and then you hop out and

568
00:33:43,600 --> 00:33:45,920
Speaker 1: he goes his way and you go your way, and

569
00:33:46,440 --> 00:33:50,000
Speaker 1: these girls disappear. And there's a lot of freaking scuzz

570
00:33:50,000 --> 00:33:53,040
Speaker 1: balls in those truck stops, especially back in the a

571
00:33:53,240 --> 00:33:58,040
Speaker 1: that was that was a supermarket for killers. And yeah,

572
00:33:58,200 --> 00:34:00,560
Speaker 1: and and also she was found that set tery, which

573
00:34:00,560 --> 00:34:02,480
Speaker 1: is actually on a on a highway. I mean it's

574
00:34:02,480 --> 00:34:04,240
Speaker 1: not a super highway everything, but it's not a back

575
00:34:04,360 --> 00:34:07,120
Speaker 1: road by any means. And of course, you know it's

576
00:34:07,120 --> 00:34:08,920
Speaker 1: an obvious place to go pull off the dead of

577
00:34:09,000 --> 00:34:11,960
Speaker 1: night is to a cemetery. Just go off to the

578
00:34:12,080 --> 00:34:14,239
Speaker 1: edge there and do do you're killing it and you know,

579
00:34:14,600 --> 00:34:16,440
Speaker 1: push the body in the ravine and off you go.

580
00:34:16,680 --> 00:34:18,319
Speaker 1: We don't even we don't even know that she was

581
00:34:18,400 --> 00:34:21,400
Speaker 1: killed there. I mean, it's it's very possible that she

582
00:34:21,560 --> 00:34:25,680
Speaker 1: was killed someplace else and then just jumped. Yeah, you know,

583
00:34:25,719 --> 00:34:30,280
Speaker 1: the person whoever it is, man or woman or beast,

584
00:34:30,440 --> 00:34:33,360
Speaker 1: whatever the case may be, puts her there, laser skirt

585
00:34:33,400 --> 00:34:37,120
Speaker 1: over and gives her a shove downhill and walks back

586
00:34:37,120 --> 00:34:42,439
Speaker 1: out and takes off, And nobody's going to be the wiser. Yeah, yeah, absolutely, Yeah,

587
00:34:42,840 --> 00:34:45,400
Speaker 1: So I don't know. I think it is possible that

588
00:34:45,440 --> 00:34:49,840
Speaker 1: maybe she was a runaway prostitute to support herself, but

589
00:34:49,880 --> 00:34:52,600
Speaker 1: I don't think it's possible. I don't think it's likely

590
00:34:52,719 --> 00:34:56,040
Speaker 1: that she was like a regular that everybody knew her. Yeah,

591
00:34:56,120 --> 00:34:58,600
Speaker 1: I will not agree with that she was a known

592
00:34:59,160 --> 00:35:01,640
Speaker 1: worker at that area. I think we're probably gonna get

593
00:35:01,640 --> 00:35:03,880
Speaker 1: in trouble because I think the proper term as sex worker,

594
00:35:04,600 --> 00:35:06,560
Speaker 1: we've got a little flack. So sorry about the sex

595
00:35:06,600 --> 00:35:08,800
Speaker 1: worker doesn't really cover because sex worker can mean a

596
00:35:08,840 --> 00:35:12,799
Speaker 1: lot of things. Well that's true, you know, but uh,

597
00:35:13,520 --> 00:35:15,760
Speaker 1: and I don't know how many how many prostitutes actually

598
00:35:15,800 --> 00:35:18,000
Speaker 1: get into drugs and that kind of thing. Apparently Princess

599
00:35:18,160 --> 00:35:20,120
Speaker 1: Do did not have any drugs in her system. She

600
00:35:20,160 --> 00:35:23,200
Speaker 1: did not, And so I'm sure that there probably are

601
00:35:23,480 --> 00:35:26,399
Speaker 1: prostitutes who don't do drugs. I don't know. I guess, yes,

602
00:35:26,480 --> 00:35:34,359
Speaker 1: of course there are. Yeah, okay, yeah, okay, no, not all.

603
00:35:35,640 --> 00:35:38,319
Speaker 1: There's a theory out there that she worked at a

604
00:35:38,360 --> 00:35:44,480
Speaker 1: local camp, like a Friday thirteens kind of camp, exactly camp. Actually,

605
00:35:44,640 --> 00:35:47,360
Speaker 1: I'm pretty sure this one came from Fear, because in Fear,

606
00:35:47,400 --> 00:35:51,440
Speaker 1: the character that was portrayed as Princess Dough was um

607
00:35:51,600 --> 00:35:54,920
Speaker 1: the fictionalized version of her. She was found on the

608
00:35:54,960 --> 00:35:58,760
Speaker 1: grounds of Camp spirit Lake, which is a fictionalized version

609
00:35:58,960 --> 00:36:04,800
Speaker 1: of no Be Bosco name. I think it's probably Indian,

610
00:36:05,040 --> 00:36:07,839
Speaker 1: you think so, I do, Okay, because it the way

611
00:36:07,880 --> 00:36:09,840
Speaker 1: it's written, in the way I've seen it written, I

612
00:36:09,840 --> 00:36:13,680
Speaker 1: always assumed somebody made it up. Oh yeah, No, I

613
00:36:13,719 --> 00:36:15,800
Speaker 1: think like, we're going to make a camp here for kids,

614
00:36:15,800 --> 00:36:21,200
Speaker 1: and let's make a fun name. Let's call it. Yeah,

615
00:36:21,239 --> 00:36:23,560
Speaker 1: I wonder what that you know, Noby so don't be

616
00:36:24,040 --> 00:36:30,719
Speaker 1: whoever Bosco is? Yeah, Boscoe, don't be Bosco. Coltrane could

617
00:36:30,760 --> 00:36:32,560
Speaker 1: be got to feel in this a joke in there?

618
00:36:32,880 --> 00:36:35,479
Speaker 1: I do I really think that there is. I'm sorry

619
00:36:35,480 --> 00:36:38,840
Speaker 1: this is very tangentle, but we were in Vegas and

620
00:36:38,880 --> 00:36:41,520
Speaker 1: we were at the Excalibur, and there's a there's an

621
00:36:41,520 --> 00:36:46,440
Speaker 1: Italian restaurant there called Bubba Dabuco and that's what this

622
00:36:46,520 --> 00:36:54,360
Speaker 1: reminds me. Anyway, So Camp No By Bosco is actually

623
00:36:54,400 --> 00:36:57,160
Speaker 1: a real camp in Hardwick Township in New Jersey, which

624
00:36:57,200 --> 00:36:59,960
Speaker 1: is close to where Princess Doe was found. But if

625
00:37:00,080 --> 00:37:02,239
Speaker 1: she had been at that camp, don't you think that

626
00:37:02,360 --> 00:37:05,120
Speaker 1: somebody would have said, Hey, it's weird this this person

627
00:37:05,160 --> 00:37:08,880
Speaker 1: in the camp is gone. Yes, well, actually that camp.

628
00:37:09,200 --> 00:37:11,920
Speaker 1: The reason that that camp is notable is because it

629
00:37:12,000 --> 00:37:16,880
Speaker 1: was actually the filming location for Friday and even more crazy,

630
00:37:17,200 --> 00:37:21,560
Speaker 1: Lieutenant Krantz. You remember Lieutenant Krantz. He was actually in

631
00:37:21,840 --> 00:37:25,960
Speaker 1: Friday thirteen that the film at that camp, two years

632
00:37:26,000 --> 00:37:28,920
Speaker 1: before they found Princess. Does I heard that? Now? What

633
00:37:28,960 --> 00:37:31,440
Speaker 1: did he did? He play a corpse or or teenager?

634
00:37:32,000 --> 00:37:34,480
Speaker 1: I think he was an extra if I remember correctly,

635
00:37:34,560 --> 00:37:36,279
Speaker 1: he was somewhere in the background. He wasn't now a

636
00:37:36,320 --> 00:37:38,560
Speaker 1: speaking part. It was probably just one of the policemen

637
00:37:38,560 --> 00:37:40,759
Speaker 1: that shows up at the end the cart away the bodies, Yeah,

638
00:37:40,880 --> 00:37:43,120
Speaker 1: you know, and and he ugled Jamie Lee Curtis and

639
00:37:43,120 --> 00:37:45,919
Speaker 1: then he left do that. No, she wasn't in that movie.

640
00:37:45,960 --> 00:37:47,680
Speaker 1: That was how the wheen you're thinking of it was like,

641
00:37:47,880 --> 00:37:50,960
Speaker 1: who was that girl? She had big hair? It was

642
00:37:50,960 --> 00:37:54,320
Speaker 1: an eighties movie. It's I get they're all so silly anymore.

643
00:37:54,320 --> 00:37:57,160
Speaker 1: I get mixed up. I just know it's on Freddy Krueger.

644
00:37:57,320 --> 00:37:59,480
Speaker 1: So I'm I'm pretty sure that that is where that

645
00:37:59,520 --> 00:38:01,680
Speaker 1: came from. I don't think that there's any credit. And

646
00:38:01,760 --> 00:38:04,520
Speaker 1: also I agree that if a camp counselor or somebody

647
00:38:04,520 --> 00:38:07,560
Speaker 1: who was attending a camp had disappeared, the people who

648
00:38:07,600 --> 00:38:11,640
Speaker 1: are running the camp would have been pretty on it. Hey, well,

649
00:38:12,000 --> 00:38:14,920
Speaker 1: unless there's like this sole thing where there's a camp

650
00:38:15,640 --> 00:38:18,680
Speaker 1: and then you know, the whole vacation is over and

651
00:38:18,719 --> 00:38:21,200
Speaker 1: everybody leaves, how you wouldn't think to be leaving as

652
00:38:21,200 --> 00:38:23,840
Speaker 1: early as mid July. Yeah, I don't think so, but

653
00:38:24,040 --> 00:38:26,319
Speaker 1: but I mean camps do run in cycles, you know,

654
00:38:26,480 --> 00:38:29,040
Speaker 1: two three, four week cycles. But even if that were

655
00:38:29,080 --> 00:38:33,640
Speaker 1: the case, as much coverage as this story, somebody would

656
00:38:33,640 --> 00:38:37,239
Speaker 1: have recognized those clothes. Yes, somebody's like it should have.

657
00:38:37,520 --> 00:38:40,600
Speaker 1: Somebody should have been keyed in just to recognize something.

658
00:38:40,600 --> 00:38:44,200
Speaker 1: They totally would. So that's all the theories for who

659
00:38:44,400 --> 00:38:47,960
Speaker 1: this person, Princess Do might have been. Let's talk about

660
00:38:48,040 --> 00:38:51,320
Speaker 1: who might have done this to Princess Do. Nancy Reagan,

661
00:38:51,880 --> 00:38:58,320
Speaker 1: I don't think so. No, there's a theory out there,

662
00:38:58,560 --> 00:39:00,560
Speaker 1: and I think this is we're want to do like

663
00:39:00,719 --> 00:39:04,120
Speaker 1: most to least credible. I guess at least the most.

664
00:39:04,360 --> 00:39:05,640
Speaker 1: You want to at least the most we can at

665
00:39:05,719 --> 00:39:08,440
Speaker 1: least the most. The least credible theory I've ever heard

666
00:39:09,400 --> 00:39:13,520
Speaker 1: I literally titled this the dumbest theory is that Princess

667
00:39:13,560 --> 00:39:16,800
Speaker 1: Dough was killed by the Blairs by by a Blair's

668
00:39:16,880 --> 00:39:20,040
Speaker 1: town police officer, which is why the case was never solved.

669
00:39:20,920 --> 00:39:24,000
Speaker 1: That's so dumb, is it, though? Yeah, you know that

670
00:39:24,040 --> 00:39:26,719
Speaker 1: if you're like that, you're the investigating officer, and this

671
00:39:26,800 --> 00:39:29,000
Speaker 1: this is one particular guy that wanders by every month,

672
00:39:29,040 --> 00:39:30,640
Speaker 1: so it says, hey, you know when you're moving on

673
00:39:30,680 --> 00:39:36,319
Speaker 1: Princess Dough and awesome. Great, I mean that's really too bad. Yeah, yeah,

674
00:39:36,640 --> 00:39:41,840
Speaker 1: I was waiting for you say hi, five. I'm so sorry.

675
00:39:42,120 --> 00:39:45,120
Speaker 1: It's it's not the craziest thing because listen, we have

676
00:39:45,239 --> 00:39:49,000
Speaker 1: read about and had people talk to us about massive

677
00:39:49,120 --> 00:39:53,960
Speaker 1: instances of police involvement and corruption for things like this.

678
00:39:54,040 --> 00:39:59,759
Speaker 1: I mean, yeah, yes, it's not unheard of, but there's

679
00:39:59,800 --> 00:40:04,359
Speaker 1: no evidence and there's no evidence. And the deep dedication

680
00:40:04,520 --> 00:40:07,440
Speaker 1: that um Lieutenant Krantz has shown to this case, I

681
00:40:07,440 --> 00:40:10,920
Speaker 1: mean he's been investigating it actively, even in retirement obviously,

682
00:40:12,640 --> 00:40:15,799
Speaker 1: lieutenant right, but he would have I think he would

683
00:40:15,800 --> 00:40:17,719
Speaker 1: have found something out if there was something to be

684
00:40:17,800 --> 00:40:21,160
Speaker 1: found out. And I've done supporting this is fun. It's

685
00:40:21,200 --> 00:40:25,759
Speaker 1: just the next amis theory is Henry Lee Lucas. You

686
00:40:25,760 --> 00:40:29,279
Speaker 1: guys know Henry Lee Lucas. Yeah, Henry Le Lucas is

687
00:40:29,320 --> 00:40:31,440
Speaker 1: the serial killer who claims to have murdered more than

688
00:40:31,480 --> 00:40:35,080
Speaker 1: three thousands of people. So of course he is a suspect.

689
00:40:35,360 --> 00:40:39,400
Speaker 1: I don't see any similarities with his actual confirmed murders

690
00:40:39,400 --> 00:40:43,240
Speaker 1: and this murder. I mean, yeah, that's problem with that, guys.

691
00:40:43,320 --> 00:40:45,800
Speaker 1: You really can't take him as his word. Unfortunately. We

692
00:40:45,920 --> 00:40:49,880
Speaker 1: just talked about this recently. Yeah, I can't do it. Uh.

693
00:40:50,160 --> 00:40:56,279
Speaker 1: The next most credible theory is Joel Rifkin. He's also

694
00:40:56,360 --> 00:40:59,920
Speaker 1: a serial an American serial killer, but I can't remember.

695
00:41:00,080 --> 00:41:02,000
Speaker 1: I know he's killed a bunch, but how many did

696
00:41:02,040 --> 00:41:05,640
Speaker 1: he kill? I don't remember. Okay, he's believed to have

697
00:41:05,840 --> 00:41:12,520
Speaker 1: killed up to seventy Yeah, prefect, Yeah, but it would

698
00:41:12,520 --> 00:41:14,959
Speaker 1: have been really early. His first official murder was in

699
00:41:15,000 --> 00:41:18,000
Speaker 1: a nineteen eighty nine And he also had a thing

700
00:41:18,080 --> 00:41:21,760
Speaker 1: for going for prostitutes in the New York area. So

701
00:41:22,280 --> 00:41:24,879
Speaker 1: and the and his his mode. He did a lot

702
00:41:24,920 --> 00:41:28,560
Speaker 1: of weird cutting of paint. Isn't he the one who

703
00:41:28,680 --> 00:41:32,319
Speaker 1: did like the weird cutting situation with clothes? He well,

704
00:41:32,320 --> 00:41:34,600
Speaker 1: he would he would take off like the first girl,

705
00:41:34,600 --> 00:41:37,320
Speaker 1: he took off her finger, her fingertips and her teeth,

706
00:41:37,400 --> 00:41:41,560
Speaker 1: and like he was doing some semi dismembering, like he

707
00:41:41,600 --> 00:41:43,520
Speaker 1: wasn't just a guy who just dumped the body hole

708
00:41:43,640 --> 00:41:46,680
Speaker 1: and just I mean, I can see the argument for escalation.

709
00:41:47,280 --> 00:41:50,160
Speaker 1: You know that he just accidentally beat this one girl

710
00:41:50,200 --> 00:41:53,359
Speaker 1: and then didn't do anything. But I don't wait when

711
00:41:53,440 --> 00:41:59,640
Speaker 1: was when was princess found? And he? But I don't,

712
00:41:59,719 --> 00:42:03,120
Speaker 1: I don't don't think it was him. I don't think

713
00:42:03,600 --> 00:42:05,400
Speaker 1: really always a worried, we were like, oh, but it

714
00:42:05,440 --> 00:42:08,080
Speaker 1: was escalation because it just seems like too easy of

715
00:42:08,120 --> 00:42:11,600
Speaker 1: a way to paint the guy into the box, paint

716
00:42:11,600 --> 00:42:13,719
Speaker 1: the box around the guy, especially since we have a

717
00:42:13,719 --> 00:42:18,120
Speaker 1: better suspect. So I think the most plausible suspect is

718
00:42:18,360 --> 00:42:23,320
Speaker 1: Arthur and maybe Donna kin Law. Donna Kinlaw was arrested

719
00:42:23,360 --> 00:42:26,520
Speaker 1: in California for attempting to commit welfare fraud by using

720
00:42:26,560 --> 00:42:30,480
Speaker 1: the name Elena, which was traced to a Long Island

721
00:42:30,680 --> 00:42:34,319
Speaker 1: native who was actually involved in a prostitution ring that

722
00:42:34,360 --> 00:42:38,600
Speaker 1: her husband, Arthur kin Law, was running. Donna gave details

723
00:42:38,600 --> 00:42:42,120
Speaker 1: about two other murders that she said Arthur had committed.

724
00:42:42,680 --> 00:42:48,480
Speaker 1: Both were unidentified females, and both remain an unidentified from Princess.

725
00:42:48,920 --> 00:42:51,840
Speaker 1: This is aside from Princess. It's also it's aside from

726
00:42:51,840 --> 00:42:58,560
Speaker 1: Elena as well. Elena had been murdered. Why did okay,

727
00:42:59,280 --> 00:43:02,040
Speaker 1: why did Donna like so because she had been murdered,

728
00:43:02,040 --> 00:43:04,040
Speaker 1: then she just she was on the hook for the murder.

729
00:43:04,080 --> 00:43:06,800
Speaker 1: So that's why she implicated. No, she was on the

730
00:43:06,800 --> 00:43:09,920
Speaker 1: hook for welfare, for frau fraud. Yeah, and so she

731
00:43:09,960 --> 00:43:11,959
Speaker 1: thought she was getting good with the cops by turning

732
00:43:12,000 --> 00:43:16,239
Speaker 1: her husband in that. You know, Honestly, I don't know why.

733
00:43:16,480 --> 00:43:19,080
Speaker 1: I don't know her motivations. I'm not a criminal psychologist,

734
00:43:19,480 --> 00:43:21,560
Speaker 1: so I don't know why she decided to just talk

735
00:43:21,600 --> 00:43:26,000
Speaker 1: about this. Some people are just talkers. She also, I think,

736
00:43:26,120 --> 00:43:29,359
Speaker 1: was trying to paint herself as the just victim. She

737
00:43:29,400 --> 00:43:32,440
Speaker 1: didn't she was being forced to do these things, and

738
00:43:32,600 --> 00:43:34,560
Speaker 1: I think she felt she was trying to paint herself

739
00:43:34,560 --> 00:43:36,080
Speaker 1: as she felt guilty. I don't know if she did

740
00:43:36,200 --> 00:43:38,359
Speaker 1: or not, But now I seem to remember reading something

741
00:43:38,360 --> 00:43:43,680
Speaker 1: about the fact that you know, Don was not Don Arthur,

742
00:43:43,880 --> 00:43:49,080
Speaker 1: sorry that Arthur was you know, he was controlling and abusive.

743
00:43:49,600 --> 00:43:52,279
Speaker 1: That's what Donna said when she was arrested, and so,

744
00:43:52,360 --> 00:43:54,640
Speaker 1: of course it was not her, It was him the

745
00:43:54,640 --> 00:43:57,360
Speaker 1: whole time to answer Joe's question, and she was she

746
00:43:57,480 --> 00:43:59,839
Speaker 1: just she couldn't do anything about it or she'd get

747
00:43:59,880 --> 00:44:04,280
Speaker 1: the well she did. She did say, um, at least

748
00:44:04,320 --> 00:44:07,040
Speaker 1: once that he literally held like a gun to her

749
00:44:07,040 --> 00:44:09,759
Speaker 1: head and said you have to do this. I don't

750
00:44:09,760 --> 00:44:11,440
Speaker 1: remember what that was. I don't think it was a

751
00:44:11,520 --> 00:44:14,080
Speaker 1: murder thing. I think it was something else, but um,

752
00:44:14,920 --> 00:44:18,759
Speaker 1: she said that he threatened her. And so after Arthur

753
00:44:18,800 --> 00:44:21,799
Speaker 1: went to trial and faced the death penalty for the

754
00:44:21,800 --> 00:44:28,040
Speaker 1: original three murders, Donna gave further know the original three murders,

755
00:44:28,080 --> 00:44:33,120
Speaker 1: the two unidentified women and Elena o Um. Donna gave

756
00:44:33,200 --> 00:44:36,799
Speaker 1: further information that Arthur had killed one other female, a

757
00:44:36,880 --> 00:44:41,800
Speaker 1: young prostitute, in a graveyard in early two. There's really

758
00:44:41,880 --> 00:44:45,840
Speaker 1: no corroborating evidence for this. It sounds like Donna's story

759
00:44:45,960 --> 00:44:50,839
Speaker 1: may have changed a few times. There's police can't substantiate it,

760
00:44:51,000 --> 00:44:55,560
Speaker 1: Donna said. In one instance, Donna said that Arthur had

761
00:44:55,600 --> 00:44:58,840
Speaker 1: brought a young woman who was matched the description and

762
00:44:58,880 --> 00:45:02,680
Speaker 1: wearing similar clothes home and then left and then came

763
00:45:02,680 --> 00:45:06,640
Speaker 1: back without her In another instance, Donna said, actually she

764
00:45:06,719 --> 00:45:09,880
Speaker 1: had gone to the graveyard with them, and then Arthur

765
00:45:09,960 --> 00:45:13,399
Speaker 1: had said, um, and you know she had watched him.

766
00:45:14,840 --> 00:45:17,319
Speaker 1: She had been a witness. And then Arthur said, if

767
00:45:17,320 --> 00:45:20,200
Speaker 1: you tell anyone, I'll do this to you. So her

768
00:45:20,239 --> 00:45:23,520
Speaker 1: story changed a couple of shifts. But I'm not I

769
00:45:23,520 --> 00:45:26,200
Speaker 1: guess I'm don't know why she would say that he

770
00:45:26,800 --> 00:45:31,719
Speaker 1: murdered her if he didn't, unless it was to try

771
00:45:31,719 --> 00:45:35,040
Speaker 1: to solidify the death penalty so she never had to see.

772
00:45:34,400 --> 00:45:37,759
Speaker 1: I think that what she was trying to do is

773
00:45:38,520 --> 00:45:43,360
Speaker 1: shovel it on thick and deep so that she looked

774
00:45:43,360 --> 00:45:45,960
Speaker 1: like the innocent bystandard, like we were just talking about,

775
00:45:46,400 --> 00:45:48,919
Speaker 1: and as you guys just kind of hinted at so

776
00:45:49,000 --> 00:45:51,920
Speaker 1: that he had that he just there was no way

777
00:45:51,960 --> 00:45:54,600
Speaker 1: he was going to get out of it so that

778
00:45:55,080 --> 00:45:58,880
Speaker 1: he couldn't come after her, whether he truly was doing

779
00:45:58,920 --> 00:46:02,040
Speaker 1: the things she said he was or not, or if

780
00:46:02,080 --> 00:46:05,360
Speaker 1: she just said, hey, Patsy thinks a lot. There's a

781
00:46:05,400 --> 00:46:08,000
Speaker 1: lot of guys who are you know, pamps and run

782
00:46:08,040 --> 00:46:11,040
Speaker 1: prostitution rings, who aren't necessarily murderers, but who still are

783
00:46:11,160 --> 00:46:14,319
Speaker 1: violent kind of people. Really, you know, I can see

784
00:46:14,320 --> 00:46:15,840
Speaker 1: why she might want to get away from him and

785
00:46:15,840 --> 00:46:17,799
Speaker 1: see him looked up for a long time. But as

786
00:46:17,800 --> 00:46:21,040
Speaker 1: far as that, the whole problem with this is, this

787
00:46:21,080 --> 00:46:23,799
Speaker 1: case actually did get a fair amount of publicity, and

788
00:46:23,880 --> 00:46:26,359
Speaker 1: so it's entirely possible that you know, her being from

789
00:46:26,400 --> 00:46:28,680
Speaker 1: that that kind of area in the geographic area not

790
00:46:28,760 --> 00:46:31,000
Speaker 1: far from New Jersey, heard all about it, you know,

791
00:46:30,960 --> 00:46:33,520
Speaker 1: I heard about the circumstances of this body being found

792
00:46:33,520 --> 00:46:37,719
Speaker 1: in Braveyard, New Jersey, and so yeah, so even though

793
00:46:38,239 --> 00:46:41,960
Speaker 1: Arthur may well have committed some murders, well, I mean,

794
00:46:42,000 --> 00:46:44,120
Speaker 1: I guess the other thing is is that like finding

795
00:46:44,160 --> 00:46:47,160
Speaker 1: out who did that to her doesn't really bring us

796
00:46:47,200 --> 00:46:51,160
Speaker 1: any closer to finding out who will. He might he

797
00:46:51,239 --> 00:46:53,040
Speaker 1: might have some clues as to her identity if you

798
00:46:53,080 --> 00:46:54,799
Speaker 1: find out who it is and ring the ring the

799
00:46:54,840 --> 00:46:57,759
Speaker 1: truth out of him, you might. But if it was

800
00:46:57,800 --> 00:46:59,960
Speaker 1: I mean, but if it was Arthur, he said he'd

801
00:47:00,000 --> 00:47:02,480
Speaker 1: has picked up a random prostitute. I mean, he Well,

802
00:47:02,480 --> 00:47:04,640
Speaker 1: I find it. I find it interesting though that whoever

803
00:47:04,760 --> 00:47:07,920
Speaker 1: did kill princess, I find it really thought it was

804
00:47:07,960 --> 00:47:11,880
Speaker 1: important to obliterator face and but just around the eyes

805
00:47:12,000 --> 00:47:17,000
Speaker 1: that her mouth was totally I don't I disagree, I

806
00:47:17,040 --> 00:47:21,359
Speaker 1: don't know that this is necessarily a scenario where it

807
00:47:21,440 --> 00:47:24,799
Speaker 1: was done in such a way to make her unidentifiable,

808
00:47:24,920 --> 00:47:27,920
Speaker 1: because I mean, everybody at that point, everybody knows about fingerprints.

809
00:47:27,960 --> 00:47:29,680
Speaker 1: If you really want to take her off the map,

810
00:47:30,080 --> 00:47:32,480
Speaker 1: you would do like what's his name and started cutting

811
00:47:32,520 --> 00:47:35,920
Speaker 1: off the hands and the fingertips. But supposing you knew her,

812
00:47:35,960 --> 00:47:38,160
Speaker 1: and you knew that she had never been arrested her fingerprinted.

813
00:47:38,719 --> 00:47:41,960
Speaker 1: But okay with that, that that implies that you know

814
00:47:42,040 --> 00:47:44,120
Speaker 1: her well enough to know that. I mean, this could

815
00:47:44,160 --> 00:47:46,759
Speaker 1: be There's nothing saying that the murderer didn't know her. Yeah,

816
00:47:46,800 --> 00:47:49,040
Speaker 1: but there's there's I mean, it could very well have

817
00:47:49,080 --> 00:47:51,520
Speaker 1: been just I mean, we've talked about these cases for

818
00:47:51,719 --> 00:47:57,399
Speaker 1: just a case of rage and the guy literally just

819
00:47:58,120 --> 00:48:01,840
Speaker 1: beats her and beats her and beats her past the

820
00:48:01,880 --> 00:48:08,880
Speaker 1: point of death. He is just Yeah, I recognize what

821
00:48:08,880 --> 00:48:11,640
Speaker 1: you're saying. Yeah, but I'm just saying that it's entirely

822
00:48:11,680 --> 00:48:15,080
Speaker 1: possible that was deliberately for two or to impede identification.

823
00:48:15,440 --> 00:48:17,879
Speaker 1: And I'm saying I don't, I don't. I don't think

824
00:48:17,920 --> 00:48:23,359
Speaker 1: that it necessarily was. I mean, the level that her face. Yeah,

825
00:48:23,600 --> 00:48:25,120
Speaker 1: but if I were the police, I would be thinking

826
00:48:25,120 --> 00:48:28,399
Speaker 1: about it the Yeah, I'd be thinking about that particular things.

827
00:48:28,400 --> 00:48:34,160
Speaker 1: So she's not been arrested, and yet somebody would have

828
00:48:34,200 --> 00:48:37,000
Speaker 1: known her by her by her face. So I mean,

829
00:48:37,120 --> 00:48:39,480
Speaker 1: you know, it's not much, but it's possible that if

830
00:48:39,520 --> 00:48:42,359
Speaker 1: she was if she was in the industry, she may

831
00:48:42,400 --> 00:48:45,240
Speaker 1: not have been in the industry for a long period

832
00:48:45,239 --> 00:48:49,000
Speaker 1: of time. And there are I think she wasn't a prostitute. No,

833
00:48:49,080 --> 00:48:51,040
Speaker 1: but I'm not either, But I'm saying if if that's

834
00:48:51,080 --> 00:48:54,040
Speaker 1: the scenario, she may have been in it a short

835
00:48:54,160 --> 00:48:57,480
Speaker 1: enough of time or good enough at avoiding being caught

836
00:48:58,200 --> 00:49:00,239
Speaker 1: that she wasn't in the system, because there are people

837
00:49:00,239 --> 00:49:03,520
Speaker 1: who go for years without getting picked up by the

838
00:49:03,719 --> 00:49:06,319
Speaker 1: We also might not have been a prostitute. Yeah, she

839
00:49:06,440 --> 00:49:09,520
Speaker 1: may have been some poor innocent bystander who got a

840
00:49:09,719 --> 00:49:14,359
Speaker 1: ride from the wrong could be a hitchhiker psycho. Yeah,

841
00:49:14,400 --> 00:49:15,919
Speaker 1: and it could have been, like you know, that would

842
00:49:15,920 --> 00:49:17,600
Speaker 1: be one reason to like, say, if you picked her

843
00:49:17,640 --> 00:49:20,239
Speaker 1: up at a truck stop or somewhere and you're a

844
00:49:20,280 --> 00:49:23,400
Speaker 1: little worried that somebody's going to recognize her in the papers,

845
00:49:23,480 --> 00:49:25,360
Speaker 1: you know, and then maybe put two and two together.

846
00:49:25,400 --> 00:49:29,840
Speaker 1: They they saw her climbing into your brown buik with you, well,

847
00:49:29,880 --> 00:49:33,080
Speaker 1: just wipe her face out. And although there were really

848
00:49:33,120 --> 00:49:35,279
Speaker 1: distinctive clothes, so I don't know why you would leave

849
00:49:35,280 --> 00:49:38,560
Speaker 1: her clothes and take her clothes with that remark, that's

850
00:49:38,560 --> 00:49:42,000
Speaker 1: a good point to Clearly, it didn't really matter that

851
00:49:42,080 --> 00:49:44,239
Speaker 1: much because nobody has come forward and said, yeah, I

852
00:49:44,320 --> 00:49:49,040
Speaker 1: recognize those clothes. Yeah, all right, Well, um that's all

853
00:49:49,080 --> 00:49:51,640
Speaker 1: I have. Do you guys have any additional theories? Uh?

854
00:49:51,960 --> 00:49:54,359
Speaker 1: Not really. All I would say for the clothes too,

855
00:49:54,480 --> 00:49:57,399
Speaker 1: is that who knows. I mean the skirt, she might

856
00:49:57,440 --> 00:49:59,560
Speaker 1: not even have ever worn that skirt. I mean somebody

857
00:49:59,560 --> 00:50:01,120
Speaker 1: could have out at the good Will and draped it

858
00:50:01,160 --> 00:50:03,120
Speaker 1: over her body. I mean somebody could have pulled her

859
00:50:03,160 --> 00:50:05,560
Speaker 1: pants and her panties offered and throwing them away somewhere else.

860
00:50:05,640 --> 00:50:07,319
Speaker 1: And yeah, I mean it could have been it could

861
00:50:07,360 --> 00:50:13,040
Speaker 1: be a tall Red Herring. Harry. Oh sorry, this one's

862
00:50:13,040 --> 00:50:18,600
Speaker 1: got more in terms of so, um, yeah, I'm not

863
00:50:18,840 --> 00:50:22,239
Speaker 1: super thrilled about the resolution to this case, but we

864
00:50:22,320 --> 00:50:26,080
Speaker 1: cover un self mysteries. Somebody will listen to this podcast,

865
00:50:26,120 --> 00:50:27,920
Speaker 1: it will jar their memory and there will be some

866
00:50:28,000 --> 00:50:32,080
Speaker 1: resolution here. Uh. So we're gonna put some links as

867
00:50:32,160 --> 00:50:35,399
Speaker 1: usual on our website that you can find there um,

868
00:50:35,400 --> 00:50:38,560
Speaker 1: where you can also stream the episode if you want.

869
00:50:38,600 --> 00:50:40,680
Speaker 1: I think you can download the episode from the website

870
00:50:40,680 --> 00:50:43,040
Speaker 1: as well. If you're wondering if we've covered a case,

871
00:50:43,160 --> 00:50:46,439
Speaker 1: there's a list of episodes there um. You can also

872
00:50:46,480 --> 00:50:49,560
Speaker 1: find links to our merch The website is Thinking Sideways

873
00:50:49,560 --> 00:50:54,800
Speaker 1: podcast dot com. We're on social media of course. Uh.

874
00:50:54,880 --> 00:50:57,200
Speaker 1: You can find us on Facebook. We've got a group

875
00:50:57,280 --> 00:50:59,560
Speaker 1: and a page, so like the page and join the group.

876
00:51:00,040 --> 00:51:03,920
Speaker 1: You've got Twitter which is Thinking Sideways. We also have

877
00:51:03,920 --> 00:51:08,359
Speaker 1: a subreddit which is just thinking Sideways. And finally, uh,

878
00:51:08,560 --> 00:51:10,719
Speaker 1: if you want to get a hold of us, the

879
00:51:10,880 --> 00:51:12,440
Speaker 1: very best way to do that is to send us

880
00:51:12,440 --> 00:51:16,080
Speaker 1: an email. We despite the thousands of emails we get

881
00:51:16,080 --> 00:51:17,719
Speaker 1: a day, we don't get a thousand emails a day.

882
00:51:17,760 --> 00:51:21,560
Speaker 1: We got a lot of we we respond to every

883
00:51:21,560 --> 00:51:24,479
Speaker 1: single one of them. Eventually takes us a little while,

884
00:51:24,760 --> 00:51:27,239
Speaker 1: but we read and respond to every single email that

885
00:51:27,280 --> 00:51:30,560
Speaker 1: we get, including spam sometimes on accidents. So there you go.

886
00:51:33,880 --> 00:51:37,400
Speaker 1: So you can send us an email at Thinking Sideways

887
00:51:37,440 --> 00:51:41,040
Speaker 1: Podcast at gmail dot com. And I think that's all

888
00:51:41,080 --> 00:51:44,239
Speaker 1: the business we have. Um, did you give that? Just

889
00:51:44,400 --> 00:51:51,160
Speaker 1: phone number yeah. Um. Anyway, Okay, I guess that's all

890
00:51:51,200 --> 00:51:54,160
Speaker 1: I have for this week, So we're just gonna depressingly

891
00:51:54,200 --> 00:51:57,239
Speaker 1: get out of here, I suppose so. To everybody, we'll

892
00:51:57,280 --> 00:51:58,960
Speaker 1: see you in a week al right, guys, talk to

893
00:51:59,000 --> 00:52:11,240
Speaker 1: you next week when Devin's voice is better. Yeah,