WEBVTT - Food Storage Mad Science, Part 1

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<v Speaker 1>Welcome to Stuff to Blow Your Mind, production of iHeartRadio.

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<v Speaker 2>Hello, and welcome to Stuff to Blow Your Mind. My

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<v Speaker 2>name is Joe McCormick. My regular co host, Robert Lamb

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<v Speaker 2>is out today, so instead I am being joined by

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<v Speaker 2>a couple of guest hosts, my friends and colleagues, Annie

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<v Speaker 2>Reese and Lauren Vogel Bomb. Hey, Annie and Lauren, Welcome

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<v Speaker 2>to Stuff to Blow Your Mind. It's not your first time,

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<v Speaker 2>but it's great to have you back. How are y'all doing?

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<v Speaker 3>Thank you for having us. It is great to be back.

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<v Speaker 3>And what a topic you have brought for us today.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah. Yeah, I was just thinking the other day about

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<v Speaker 1>the last time we were on talking about ambergris and

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<v Speaker 1>how weird that one was.

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<v Speaker 2>So yeah, yeah, yeah, delicious squidbeaks, because the weird thing

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<v Speaker 2>was that we figured out that you can eat ambergris

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<v Speaker 2>and many people have.

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<v Speaker 1>Why not? Why was one weird thingsing whale refuse and

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<v Speaker 1>turn it into something delicious makes perfect sense?

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<v Speaker 2>So would y'all like to talk about Savor and your

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<v Speaker 2>other projects? Yeah? Where else can people find your work

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<v Speaker 2>on the internet?

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<v Speaker 1>Well? Yeah, A Saver is a podcast about food history

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<v Speaker 1>and science and culture, and you can find it on

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<v Speaker 1>the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

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<v Speaker 1>And I also do a short form science and history

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<v Speaker 1>show called brain Stuff. Annie does another stuff podcast called

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<v Speaker 1>Stuff Mom Never Told You, which is a feminist, intersectional

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<v Speaker 1>kind of kind of gig. Yeah.

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<v Speaker 3>Nice, Yeah, book topics.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah. Yeah. We're also about to be on a panel

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<v Speaker 1>at PRX in Atlanta that is the Podcast Creator Summit.

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<v Speaker 1>It's happening July thirtieth through August first, And yeah, we're

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<v Speaker 1>on a panel on the thirtieth called Feeding the Culture

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<v Speaker 1>taligantlant As Food Stories with a couple of really excellent

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<v Speaker 1>co panelists and the event is free. There's a free

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<v Speaker 1>reception afterwards at Monday Night brewing. Come have some snacks

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<v Speaker 1>and listen to a great time.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I'm terrified and excited com hang out.

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<v Speaker 3>That's generally how we operate.

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<v Speaker 2>But yeah, are you in the same boat as us that? Like,

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<v Speaker 2>I'm somebody who talks for a living, but I'm kind

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<v Speaker 2>of scared of doing live events because I'm not good

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<v Speaker 2>at talking extemporaneously without preparation, and also, like I stumble

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<v Speaker 2>over my words a lot, And that's why we rely

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<v Speaker 2>on our wonderful producer JJ to edit out the parts

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<v Speaker 2>where I say a sentence in a completely mangled way

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<v Speaker 2>and have to start over.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, thank you, yes, thank you JJ.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, as with the last time you were on the show.

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<v Speaker 2>Because y'all do such great work with food science and

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<v Speaker 2>food history on SAVER, I thought it would be a

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<v Speaker 2>good idea to talk about something food related on Stuff

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<v Speaker 2>to Blow Your And actually, if everything works out, y'all

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<v Speaker 2>are going to join me for two episodes of Stuff

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<v Speaker 2>to Blow Your Mind? Can I can I get you

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<v Speaker 2>on the on the record committing to that now? Oh wow?

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<v Speaker 3>You sure kind of boxing those in.

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<v Speaker 2>A corner, but so yeah, Tuesday and Thursday of this week,

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<v Speaker 2>we're going to do a part one and a part two, uh,

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<v Speaker 2>discussing the strange and spooky things that can happen to

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<v Speaker 2>leftovers and other foods during storage. I'm thinking of calling

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<v Speaker 2>this series food storage mad Science. And this idea was

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<v Speaker 2>inspired by a specific disturbing food memory I have that

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<v Speaker 2>still haunts me. Unfortunately I can't remember some of the

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<v Speaker 2>key details about it. But can I tell you a

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<v Speaker 2>campfire story about food and see if y'all have ever

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<v Speaker 2>had similar experiences?

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<v Speaker 1>Please?

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah?

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, get out the flashlight. Let's make it spooky.

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<v Speaker 2>Okay woo. So once upon a time, I remember this

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<v Speaker 2>happened when Rachel and I were we're on a little vacation.

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<v Speaker 2>We were staying at a cabin in the mountains. So good.

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<v Speaker 2>Actually this is where the slashers happened. Yeah.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, and Adam in the woods love it.

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<v Speaker 2>But the other thing, the other horror here I don't

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<v Speaker 2>know if y'all can relate, is I'm the cook, the

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<v Speaker 2>main cook in our house, but I was not cooking

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<v Speaker 2>with my normal home equipment, and that always causes frustrations

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<v Speaker 2>for me. I like to be able to use my

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<v Speaker 2>own pans and utensils and stuff. But so you know,

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<v Speaker 2>I was using somebody else's equipment, and I made a

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<v Speaker 2>batch of my baked pasta. I usually do a baked penna.

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<v Speaker 2>I think this time it was fusili because I remember

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<v Speaker 2>the little corkscrew shapes when when the final horror was revealed.

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<v Speaker 2>But the way before I go on, do y'all do

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<v Speaker 2>have like a go to baked pasta dishneath it? Are

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<v Speaker 2>y'all baked pasta people or not?

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<v Speaker 3>I'm not generally a baked pasta person. I am a

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<v Speaker 3>pasta person. Yeah, but I do have a nostalgia for

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<v Speaker 3>a post Thanksgiving baked pasta. My mom used to make

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<v Speaker 3>turkey tetrazini, yes, which she would just use shredded turkey,

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<v Speaker 3>angel hair pasta and cuma mushroom soup. I know there's

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<v Speaker 3>ways you can kind of like gussie it up. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 3>that's felicious. We have done an episode on it over

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<v Speaker 3>on Savor, and it's one of those things that people

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<v Speaker 3>disagree about how to make it, which is pretty much

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<v Speaker 3>everything but that kind of simple savory dish. I have

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<v Speaker 3>really fond memories of.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I'm too lazy to make a baked pasta like

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<v Speaker 1>pasta all day, but I'm not going to put it

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<v Speaker 1>in the oven, Like that's an extra step that's way

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<v Speaker 1>too much.

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<v Speaker 2>No going to a second location. No, No, Yeah, I

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<v Speaker 2>generally do a I do regular pasta more than baked pasta.

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<v Speaker 2>But when it's a baked pasta, I do like a

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<v Speaker 2>pinna and a tomato sauce with sausage, roasted mushrooms and spinach,

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<v Speaker 2>and then I bake that in a casserole with pecorina

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<v Speaker 2>romano and low moisture mozzarella. Mozzarella melted on top. It's

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<v Speaker 2>a jam. It's pretty good. It's sort of inspired by

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<v Speaker 2>I worked as a as a server in an Italian

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<v Speaker 2>stant when I was in college, and they had a

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<v Speaker 2>dish kind of like this, but like without spinach in it.

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<v Speaker 2>So I've modified it over the years, but that's what

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<v Speaker 2>I was doing, except this time I'm pretty sure it

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<v Speaker 2>was the fusille, not the pinny. Anyway, that's not really material.

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<v Speaker 2>But just wanted to talk baked pasta shop for a second. Yeah, Yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>So I made this batch of baked pasta, and the

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<v Speaker 2>story starts very normally. I baked it, we ate it

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<v Speaker 2>the first night, and after it cooled off, I covered

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<v Speaker 2>it up with aluminum foil and I put the leftovers

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<v Speaker 2>in the fridge. And then a day or two later,

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<v Speaker 2>I don't remember exactly when it was, I pulled the

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<v Speaker 2>leftovers out so we could eat some more, and to

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<v Speaker 2>my horror and disgust, I found the aluminum foil pitted

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<v Speaker 2>with tiny holes in places where the little pasta corkscrews

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<v Speaker 2>had been in contact with the foil. Now the holes

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<v Speaker 2>were alarming enough, because it almost looked like it had

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<v Speaker 2>that appearance I associate with food that has been nibbled

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<v Speaker 2>by like cockroaches or maybe mice, like a little kind

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<v Speaker 2>of nibbled on eaten by a pest. Look. But then

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<v Speaker 2>it got even worse because I when I peeled the

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<v Speaker 2>foil away on the pasta itself, there were these little

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<v Speaker 2>dots and puddles of residue where what it looked like

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<v Speaker 2>was that the aluminum foil had melted and left these blue,

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<v Speaker 2>gray green polka dots all over our food. Definitely not appetizing. No,

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<v Speaker 2>at the time, I had no idea what had happened,

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<v Speaker 2>even though it looked like a form of melting that

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<v Speaker 2>was obviously not possible. The melting point of aluminum foil

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<v Speaker 2>is it's very high. It's something like six hundred and

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<v Speaker 2>sixty degrees celsius or more than twelve hundred degrees fahrenheit.

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<v Speaker 2>That definitely is not what happened.

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<v Speaker 1>Certainly not in a fridge. I would be that you

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<v Speaker 1>would have greater problems.

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<v Speaker 3>You got a Ghostbuster esque issue.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, exactly.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, like I'm sorry, goser got into this penny.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, even the oven. If the castle had been that hot,

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<v Speaker 2>it would have been obvious for a number of reasons.

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<v Speaker 2>I think it'd probably be on fire. I haven't done

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<v Speaker 2>the ignition point of posita, I don't know, but there

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<v Speaker 2>would be no more moisture left in it, obviously, so

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<v Speaker 2>there's no way the foil was melting. It kind of

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<v Speaker 2>looked like it had been nibbled on in a way,

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<v Speaker 2>but that didn't make any sense because it was stored

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<v Speaker 2>inside the refrigerator. So I think at the time, I

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<v Speaker 2>just assumed this was some sort of weird chemical reaction,

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<v Speaker 2>but we were in a hurry. I didn't have time

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<v Speaker 2>to look into it or figure out if it was

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<v Speaker 2>safe to eat, so I just discarded it moved on,

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<v Speaker 2>and so I was curious what was happening here. And

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<v Speaker 2>that's the first thing I want to talk about in

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<v Speaker 2>our series of weird food storage reactions, because I looked

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<v Speaker 2>into this and I discovered that my experience here was

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<v Speaker 2>not unique. You can find posts on the Internet of

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<v Speaker 2>people reacting with curiosity and horror to the fact that

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<v Speaker 2>aluminum oil has apparently dissolved and turned into an aquamarine

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<v Speaker 2>gun metal stain on their food and the food. Interestingly enough,

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<v Speaker 2>in the vast majority of these cases, especially where you

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<v Speaker 2>can find pictures on the internet, is lasagna quite similar

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<v Speaker 2>to my baked penny. Okay, so I've got some illustrations

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<v Speaker 2>that I just found on Google Images for you all

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<v Speaker 2>to look at here in the outline. What do y'all

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<v Speaker 2>think you want to dig into that?

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<v Speaker 1>No? No, that's gnarly. I don't want no, unless you

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<v Speaker 1>have used a blue cheese. I don't want my lasagna

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<v Speaker 1>to be that color. And I'm not Actually I would

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<v Speaker 1>totally eat a blue cheese lasagna. I was about to no, no,

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<v Speaker 1>that sounds great, but so no, the answer is no,

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<v Speaker 1>thank you.

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<v Speaker 3>Well, I'm notoriously. I will eat around things. It's not great,

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<v Speaker 3>but I.

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<v Speaker 4>Would do it.

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<v Speaker 1>Oh yeah, stray cat mentality. Yeah, just like, oh the

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<v Speaker 1>food is there? Not going to waste the food. I

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<v Speaker 1>don't recommend it. It's not a great way to go.

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<v Speaker 2>And you know the mold like it's got the little

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<v Speaker 2>t that go inside right invisible.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, okay, I can get very creative.

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<v Speaker 2>Food daredevil over here. Okay, But so first question, have

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<v Speaker 2>y'all ever had this experience? Does this happen to you?

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<v Speaker 1>I've never seen this before.

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<v Speaker 3>Okay, I don't think I've ever I've had aluminum foil

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<v Speaker 3>get stuck to a dish like little bits of it

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<v Speaker 3>and just kind of ate around it. But I don't

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<v Speaker 3>think I've ever had this happen before.

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<v Speaker 1>This kind of melting situation, right, yeah.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, Okay, well then I'll just have to use my

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<v Speaker 2>experience as the reference point here. But rest assured, it's

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<v Speaker 2>not just me. This does happen to people all the time.

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<v Speaker 2>Often it freaks them out and they don't understand what

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<v Speaker 2>it is, much like me in this scenario. And the

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<v Speaker 2>question is what is causing this, what's actually happening. In

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<v Speaker 2>most cases, there seems to be a pretty clear answer,

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<v Speaker 2>and that answer is something called galvanic corrosion. In the

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<v Speaker 2>context of food, this has a cute name. It's often

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<v Speaker 2>called the lasagna cell. So in crude terms, this is

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<v Speaker 2>when the wrong combination of storage choices or cooking vessel

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<v Speaker 2>choices turns a tray of lasagna into a battery.

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<v Speaker 3>I feel like lasagna cell. You called it cute, but

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<v Speaker 3>I'd be nervous. This is a lasagna that's out to

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<v Speaker 3>get me.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh, sleeper cell like a storm or like a like

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<v Speaker 2>a cell of like spies.

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<v Speaker 1>And yeah, yeah, yeah, we are concerned by the way

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<v Speaker 1>that Annie is herself a sleeper cell. Oh, there's a

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<v Speaker 1>few words that she pronounces in British English.

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<v Speaker 2>Really, what happens when you look at the red queen?

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<v Speaker 3>Oh lord, I've never tried.

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<v Speaker 2>Getting on my solitaire deck. Uh. Okay, So we're gonna

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<v Speaker 2>be talking about galvanic corrosion, and I apologize in advance.

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<v Speaker 2>You know, electrochemistry is not my strong suit. But I

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<v Speaker 2>really did my homework here, so I worked hard to

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<v Speaker 2>make sure I'm getting all this right.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah. Anytime people start talking about electrons, I'm like, oh,

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<v Speaker 1>so you mean a wizard. A wizard is doing something cool. Yeah,

0:12:15.240 --> 0:12:17.920
<v Speaker 1>but right now I think, yeah, I think we've got this.

0:12:18.240 --> 0:12:20.160
<v Speaker 2>I had the same experience. I was like, okay, I

0:12:20.200 --> 0:12:22.440
<v Speaker 2>really want to understand what happened to my food. I

0:12:22.480 --> 0:12:24.760
<v Speaker 2>start looking into it. I find a good answer, but

0:12:24.800 --> 0:12:27.000
<v Speaker 2>then I'm like, oh no, I'm gonna have to remember

0:12:27.040 --> 0:12:29.600
<v Speaker 2>again what all this stuff is and how batteries work.

0:12:29.679 --> 0:12:31.960
<v Speaker 2>But it's okay. I think I got a lock on

0:12:32.000 --> 0:12:32.319
<v Speaker 2>it now.

0:12:32.640 --> 0:12:32.720
<v Speaker 1>So.

0:12:32.920 --> 0:12:38.199
<v Speaker 2>Galvanic corrosion is also known as by metallic corrosion by

0:12:38.280 --> 0:12:42.040
<v Speaker 2>metallic as in two metals, and it happens when you've

0:12:42.080 --> 0:12:46.640
<v Speaker 2>got two different metals arranged in what's called a galvanic cell,

0:12:46.920 --> 0:12:50.360
<v Speaker 2>also known as a voltaic cell. These two things are

0:12:50.800 --> 0:12:54.000
<v Speaker 2>basically the same thing, but they're named after Luigi Galvani

0:12:54.360 --> 0:12:59.040
<v Speaker 2>and Alessandro Volta, respectively. These were two different Italian guys

0:12:59.080 --> 0:13:02.680
<v Speaker 2>who both set discovered principles in the late eighteenth century

0:13:02.960 --> 0:13:06.880
<v Speaker 2>that led to the development of the electric battery. So

0:13:07.080 --> 0:13:09.959
<v Speaker 2>a galvanic cell is a structure where you've got these

0:13:10.000 --> 0:13:13.959
<v Speaker 2>two different metals, for example, copper and zinc, and they're

0:13:14.040 --> 0:13:18.520
<v Speaker 2>electrically connected to each other, so imagine connected by a wire.

0:13:19.400 --> 0:13:23.120
<v Speaker 2>And then they are also both in contact with an

0:13:23.120 --> 0:13:29.120
<v Speaker 2>electrolyte solution. So an electrolyte is a substance that can

0:13:29.400 --> 0:13:33.000
<v Speaker 2>conduct electricity when dissolved in a fluid. For example, table

0:13:33.040 --> 0:13:37.040
<v Speaker 2>salt sodium chloride is an electrolyte. When you dissolve table

0:13:37.080 --> 0:13:40.559
<v Speaker 2>salt in a glass of water, the sodium chloride separates

0:13:40.640 --> 0:13:45.559
<v Speaker 2>into positively charged sodium ions and negatively charged chloride ions,

0:13:45.920 --> 0:13:50.280
<v Speaker 2>and then these ions can carry an electrical charge through

0:13:50.360 --> 0:13:53.400
<v Speaker 2>the water. If the salt water is placed between two

0:13:53.400 --> 0:13:58.000
<v Speaker 2>different electrical potentials for example, two differently charged pieces of metal,

0:13:58.720 --> 0:14:03.240
<v Speaker 2>so salt water can function as an electrolyte. Solution, the

0:14:03.280 --> 0:14:07.880
<v Speaker 2>galvanic cell is the basic idea that makes a battery work.

0:14:08.320 --> 0:14:12.040
<v Speaker 2>The simple version of this explanation is that inside a battery,

0:14:12.280 --> 0:14:15.480
<v Speaker 2>you're going to have two substances. One is called a cathode,

0:14:15.559 --> 0:14:19.680
<v Speaker 2>one's called an anode, and these will be electrically connected

0:14:19.680 --> 0:14:23.360
<v Speaker 2>to each other, so like wired together, and then also

0:14:23.600 --> 0:14:27.760
<v Speaker 2>both in contact with a shared electrolyte solution. Often in

0:14:27.760 --> 0:14:30.840
<v Speaker 2>a battery it's going to be a gel. In modern batteries,

0:14:31.640 --> 0:14:35.360
<v Speaker 2>the cathode and the anode undergo a chemical reaction called

0:14:35.400 --> 0:14:40.120
<v Speaker 2>a redox reaction, and that's short for reduction oxidation. The

0:14:40.160 --> 0:14:43.960
<v Speaker 2>anode goes through what's called oxidation, that's where electrons flow

0:14:44.040 --> 0:14:48.040
<v Speaker 2>away from the anode material, and the cathode undergoes reduction.

0:14:48.280 --> 0:14:51.720
<v Speaker 2>This is where electrons flow through the outside circuit into

0:14:51.800 --> 0:14:55.640
<v Speaker 2>the cathode, and then you also have ions, which are

0:14:55.640 --> 0:14:59.960
<v Speaker 2>a little charged atoms or molecules, flowing through the electrolyte

0:15:00.160 --> 0:15:04.760
<v Speaker 2>solution to complete the circuit. This of course creates electrical

0:15:04.880 --> 0:15:08.680
<v Speaker 2>flow electrical current, which is useful in powering whatever you've

0:15:08.720 --> 0:15:11.240
<v Speaker 2>got included in the circuit. This is how batteries provide

0:15:11.280 --> 0:15:14.520
<v Speaker 2>electricity to things, usually by putting a number of these

0:15:14.520 --> 0:15:18.160
<v Speaker 2>cells in series to create more voltage. And so here's

0:15:18.160 --> 0:15:21.600
<v Speaker 2>where we get to the corrosion part. As this redox

0:15:21.640 --> 0:15:26.680
<v Speaker 2>reaction goes on over time, the material of the anode

0:15:26.880 --> 0:15:32.680
<v Speaker 2>actually physically degrades and loses mass because electrons are flowing

0:15:32.720 --> 0:15:38.520
<v Speaker 2>away from the anode. Leftover positively charged ions dissolve out

0:15:38.520 --> 0:15:41.880
<v Speaker 2>of the mass of the anode and into the electrolyte solution.

0:15:42.720 --> 0:15:44.560
<v Speaker 2>And when this happens, in a lot of cases, you

0:15:44.560 --> 0:15:47.480
<v Speaker 2>can see by looking at it that the anode is

0:15:48.000 --> 0:15:50.960
<v Speaker 2>losing its chemical and physical integrity. It just sort of

0:15:51.240 --> 0:15:55.520
<v Speaker 2>bleeds out into the middle. This is not a perfect analogy,

0:15:55.640 --> 0:15:59.120
<v Speaker 2>but you could look at this physical degradation of the

0:15:59.560 --> 0:16:03.120
<v Speaker 2>substance of the anode as the fuel that is spent

0:16:03.400 --> 0:16:06.200
<v Speaker 2>to power the circuit, kind of like how wood is

0:16:06.280 --> 0:16:10.200
<v Speaker 2>burned in order to power the oxidation reaction that is

0:16:10.320 --> 0:16:14.280
<v Speaker 2>a fire. This degradation of the anode, when it happens

0:16:14.360 --> 0:16:18.920
<v Speaker 2>unintentionally between two metals in contact with an electrolyte, that

0:16:19.200 --> 0:16:23.520
<v Speaker 2>is what we call galvanic corrosion. There are a lot

0:16:23.560 --> 0:16:26.320
<v Speaker 2>of common examples of galvanic corrosion in the world that

0:16:26.440 --> 0:16:29.880
<v Speaker 2>don't have anything to do with food. Galvanic corrosion happens

0:16:29.920 --> 0:16:34.520
<v Speaker 2>to like screws and other fasteners holding metal in place,

0:16:34.560 --> 0:16:37.000
<v Speaker 2>so you can think of like steel screws on an

0:16:37.000 --> 0:16:39.920
<v Speaker 2>aluminum base. Especially. It seems like a lot of the

0:16:39.960 --> 0:16:44.920
<v Speaker 2>examples happen in the vicinity of the sea, on seaside buildings,

0:16:45.000 --> 0:16:49.840
<v Speaker 2>on ships and boats. I know salt does not evaporate

0:16:49.920 --> 0:16:52.240
<v Speaker 2>with water when water evaporates, but it can be like

0:16:52.280 --> 0:16:55.120
<v Speaker 2>carried through the air in these little droplets as sea spray.

0:16:55.480 --> 0:16:58.120
<v Speaker 2>So stuff that's next to the ocean, or even especially

0:16:58.160 --> 0:17:00.840
<v Speaker 2>sitting in the ocean, but next to it, also it

0:17:00.840 --> 0:17:04.320
<v Speaker 2>gets the sea spray salty moisture getting all over it

0:17:04.400 --> 0:17:09.280
<v Speaker 2>and getting in between bimetallic components, and this will end

0:17:09.359 --> 0:17:13.240
<v Speaker 2>up dissolving the less noble of the two metals over time.

0:17:22.880 --> 0:17:25.480
<v Speaker 2>There are other examples too. I think I'm one able

0:17:25.520 --> 0:17:27.800
<v Speaker 2>to find really good specific examples of this, but I

0:17:27.800 --> 0:17:31.440
<v Speaker 2>think galvanic corrosion can sometimes happen to jewelry if there

0:17:31.480 --> 0:17:34.840
<v Speaker 2>are two different metals and enough sweat or if you

0:17:34.960 --> 0:17:38.200
<v Speaker 2>like wear the jewelry while bathing or swimming, you can

0:17:38.280 --> 0:17:41.240
<v Speaker 2>end up with a kind of electrolyte water in between them.

0:17:41.280 --> 0:17:45.399
<v Speaker 2>You know, salty water, sweat and then maybe if it

0:17:45.480 --> 0:17:48.359
<v Speaker 2>has i don't know, gold and nickel or you know,

0:17:48.560 --> 0:17:52.080
<v Speaker 2>two different kinds of metals on it, something can start

0:17:52.119 --> 0:17:55.320
<v Speaker 2>corroding the less noble of the two metals in the jewelry.

0:17:55.960 --> 0:17:59.000
<v Speaker 2>And then there are also like really interesting historical anecdotes

0:17:59.040 --> 0:18:03.520
<v Speaker 2>where they were like consequential cases of galvanic corrosion. Any

0:18:03.680 --> 0:18:04.880
<v Speaker 2>didn't you dig up one of these?

0:18:05.680 --> 0:18:07.679
<v Speaker 3>I did, and I was very, very shocked by it

0:18:07.720 --> 0:18:11.640
<v Speaker 3>because I was specifically looking for food examples, but I

0:18:11.760 --> 0:18:16.320
<v Speaker 3>uncovered something I did not know, So yes, non food wise,

0:18:16.359 --> 0:18:18.960
<v Speaker 3>there is a really interesting history and a long history

0:18:18.960 --> 0:18:23.439
<v Speaker 3>of scientists and engineers trying to combat galvanic corrosion when

0:18:23.480 --> 0:18:28.120
<v Speaker 3>it comes to naval ships and even the Statue of Liberty.

0:18:28.720 --> 0:18:32.040
<v Speaker 3>I learned so much about how to restore the Statue

0:18:32.040 --> 0:18:35.520
<v Speaker 3>of Liberty, but I'm going to condense it, Okay. Beginning

0:18:35.560 --> 0:18:38.240
<v Speaker 3>in the seventeen hundreds, ships in the British Royal Navy

0:18:38.359 --> 0:18:42.040
<v Speaker 3>started displaying signs of corrosion in the iron nails holding

0:18:42.040 --> 0:18:47.040
<v Speaker 3>the ships together. Alarmed officials launched an investigation, and they

0:18:47.040 --> 0:18:50.080
<v Speaker 3>did all these experiments, and they realized that it had

0:18:50.119 --> 0:18:52.960
<v Speaker 3>something to do with the interaction of the copper sheets

0:18:53.400 --> 0:18:56.080
<v Speaker 3>inserted in the ships below the waterline of the vessel

0:18:56.359 --> 0:18:58.679
<v Speaker 3>and the iron nails, causing the sheets of copper to

0:18:58.760 --> 0:19:03.800
<v Speaker 3>detach from the wooden holes. Investigation revealed that while some

0:19:03.840 --> 0:19:08.600
<v Speaker 3>of the nails remained intact, others had almost completely dissolved

0:19:08.600 --> 0:19:13.080
<v Speaker 3>into this kind of paste. Yeah, the intact nails still

0:19:13.119 --> 0:19:15.760
<v Speaker 3>had a layer of insulation between the iron and copper,

0:19:15.760 --> 0:19:19.719
<v Speaker 3>which apparently accidentally was left behind during construction. Like they

0:19:19.760 --> 0:19:22.560
<v Speaker 3>sure should have taken the insulation off, but they didn't.

0:19:23.640 --> 0:19:28.000
<v Speaker 3>But this discovery kickstarted even further experiments with different materials

0:19:28.000 --> 0:19:30.960
<v Speaker 3>and coatings and how they reacted when exposed to salt water.

0:19:31.920 --> 0:19:35.680
<v Speaker 3>The British Royal Navy arrived at using a copper zinc alloy,

0:19:36.920 --> 0:19:42.000
<v Speaker 3>but then okay, jumping ahead. In the nineteen eighties, maintenance

0:19:42.000 --> 0:19:44.919
<v Speaker 3>workers realized that the Statue of Liberty had been affected

0:19:45.359 --> 0:19:50.440
<v Speaker 3>by galvanic corrosion. The outer copper layers were separating from

0:19:50.480 --> 0:19:54.639
<v Speaker 3>the internal cast iron structure. When the Statue of Liberty

0:19:54.680 --> 0:19:57.400
<v Speaker 3>was originally constructed in eighteen eighty six, there was this

0:19:57.720 --> 0:20:01.959
<v Speaker 3>thin layer of shelleck between iron and copper, and it

0:20:02.000 --> 0:20:05.560
<v Speaker 3>acted as an insulation. Over the years of exposure, to

0:20:05.600 --> 0:20:09.280
<v Speaker 3>the salt watery atmosphere of Liberty Island and rainfall leaking

0:20:09.359 --> 0:20:13.000
<v Speaker 3>down from the torch. The sillac broke down, eliminating this

0:20:13.080 --> 0:20:15.639
<v Speaker 3>layer of insulation, and I apologies I always struggle to

0:20:15.640 --> 0:20:20.240
<v Speaker 3>pronounce silac. The two metals reacted and the iron started

0:20:20.280 --> 0:20:23.399
<v Speaker 3>to rust. To stop this process, the cast iron was

0:20:23.440 --> 0:20:27.199
<v Speaker 3>replaced with stainless steel, which is resistant to corrosion, and

0:20:27.240 --> 0:20:31.919
<v Speaker 3>the sillac was replaced with PTFE or tef one. It

0:20:31.960 --> 0:20:35.879
<v Speaker 3>was a pretty extensive restoration. Oh that's what I'll say.

0:20:36.240 --> 0:20:38.280
<v Speaker 2>I apologize if you don't know the answer here, But

0:20:38.560 --> 0:20:42.640
<v Speaker 2>what was the predicted failure state? Like if they hadn't intervened,

0:20:42.680 --> 0:20:44.879
<v Speaker 2>what would have happened? Does the statue of Liberty like

0:20:45.240 --> 0:20:47.520
<v Speaker 2>collapse or does like one part of it come off

0:20:47.520 --> 0:20:48.320
<v Speaker 2>with the other? Yeah?

0:20:48.400 --> 0:20:50.120
<v Speaker 1>Does like her skin just sort of peel off?

0:20:51.080 --> 0:20:51.439
<v Speaker 2>Yeah?

0:20:51.440 --> 0:20:55.800
<v Speaker 3>So from what I read, it was not a structural issue,

0:20:56.000 --> 0:20:57.800
<v Speaker 3>like it was not going to be a danger, but

0:20:57.840 --> 0:21:01.680
<v Speaker 3>it just didn't look great. People were worried about the arms,

0:21:01.720 --> 0:21:06.440
<v Speaker 3>specifically holding up the torch, but and they did try

0:21:06.480 --> 0:21:09.800
<v Speaker 3>a lot of interesting experiments to fix that and make

0:21:09.840 --> 0:21:12.800
<v Speaker 3>the torch a little fencier, like it might actually glow

0:21:12.840 --> 0:21:17.280
<v Speaker 3>at night. But from what I understand, it was more

0:21:17.320 --> 0:21:19.400
<v Speaker 3>of a it doesn't.

0:21:19.119 --> 0:21:22.560
<v Speaker 2>Look very good issue, Okay, But in the case of

0:21:22.600 --> 0:21:25.280
<v Speaker 2>like the ships and stuff, this actually was a serious

0:21:25.280 --> 0:21:29.080
<v Speaker 2>structural issue based on galvanic corrosion, right it.

0:21:29.280 --> 0:21:32.240
<v Speaker 3>Was, and that they put those copper sheets in there

0:21:32.760 --> 0:21:36.679
<v Speaker 3>specifically to combat things that was damaging the wood, like

0:21:36.760 --> 0:21:41.160
<v Speaker 3>these wood boring worms, I think, and just wear and tear.

0:21:41.240 --> 0:21:44.080
<v Speaker 3>So it was sort of a new issue. They weren't

0:21:44.119 --> 0:21:47.040
<v Speaker 3>They weren't sure why it was happening. At first. Those

0:21:47.080 --> 0:21:50.359
<v Speaker 3>copper sheets made those ships go so much better, like faster,

0:21:50.560 --> 0:21:55.399
<v Speaker 3>all of that. But ones, yeah, if your whole is

0:21:55.480 --> 0:22:00.240
<v Speaker 3>falling apart, that's not great. Yeahs are coming out.

0:22:00.359 --> 0:22:02.480
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I don't want my nails to be paste in

0:22:03.400 --> 0:22:06.040
<v Speaker 1>my ship. That's not a good place for that.

0:22:07.240 --> 0:22:10.720
<v Speaker 2>So in a lot of these unintended cases of galvanic corrosion,

0:22:11.680 --> 0:22:16.560
<v Speaker 2>we're dealing with like natural environmental salt water salt spray

0:22:17.080 --> 0:22:19.920
<v Speaker 2>as the main electrolyte, but it can be all kinds

0:22:19.960 --> 0:22:25.480
<v Speaker 2>of things. Lots of natural, common wet organic substances have

0:22:25.840 --> 0:22:29.359
<v Speaker 2>just the right physical properties to be the electrolyte in

0:22:29.440 --> 0:22:32.879
<v Speaker 2>a galvanic cell. In fact, going back to Luigi Galvani,

0:22:32.960 --> 0:22:37.399
<v Speaker 2>one of Galvani's revolutionary experiments in the eighteenth century was

0:22:37.760 --> 0:22:42.400
<v Speaker 2>showing that he could make a severed frog's leg twitch

0:22:42.680 --> 0:22:47.199
<v Speaker 2>with electrical stimulation, which was only possible because animal body

0:22:47.240 --> 0:22:51.280
<v Speaker 2>parts like a frog's leg, which is food, you know.

0:22:52.040 --> 0:22:53.040
<v Speaker 1>Oh yeah, that's tasty.

0:22:54.080 --> 0:22:57.760
<v Speaker 2>A frog's leg has moisture and ions like salts that

0:22:57.920 --> 0:23:03.159
<v Speaker 2>can conduct electricity internal. Another example of a natural, wet,

0:23:03.280 --> 0:23:07.000
<v Speaker 2>organic substance that works as a perfectly good electrolyte for

0:23:07.040 --> 0:23:10.560
<v Speaker 2>one of these cells is a potato battery. Y'all made

0:23:10.560 --> 0:23:16.320
<v Speaker 2>these in school? Yeah, oh yeah, and you play Portal two, Yes, exactly, yeah,

0:23:16.440 --> 0:23:20.680
<v Speaker 2>so glad ass yeah, which by the end of this episode,

0:23:20.720 --> 0:23:23.200
<v Speaker 2>I'm definitely thinking of like a Portal three with clad

0:23:23.240 --> 0:23:28.160
<v Speaker 2>oss as a lasagna, which I think that's got legs.

0:23:27.119 --> 0:23:27.600
<v Speaker 4>It does.

0:23:29.240 --> 0:23:32.679
<v Speaker 2>So in a potato battery, you stick a like a

0:23:32.720 --> 0:23:37.000
<v Speaker 2>copper penny and a zinc coated screw into opposite sides

0:23:37.000 --> 0:23:40.680
<v Speaker 2>of a potato, and then you wire them together, and

0:23:40.760 --> 0:23:45.399
<v Speaker 2>the wet ion rich interior of the potato facilitates the

0:23:45.440 --> 0:23:48.639
<v Speaker 2>flow of electrical current, so you can power something like

0:23:48.680 --> 0:23:51.080
<v Speaker 2>a like a little led, you know, wired between the

0:23:51.080 --> 0:23:53.960
<v Speaker 2>two metal pieces, though you might need more than one

0:23:54.000 --> 0:23:56.280
<v Speaker 2>potato and series to power an led because you know,

0:23:56.359 --> 0:23:58.320
<v Speaker 2>potato battery doesn't put out a lot, but you can

0:23:58.359 --> 0:24:01.520
<v Speaker 2>get a little bit of flow. In the case of

0:24:01.560 --> 0:24:05.879
<v Speaker 2>a potato battery, the anode that is sacrificed that degrades

0:24:06.040 --> 0:24:09.320
<v Speaker 2>in this redox reaction is the zinc on the screw.

0:24:09.480 --> 0:24:12.960
<v Speaker 2>It breaks down over time due to galvanic corrosion to

0:24:13.119 --> 0:24:16.560
<v Speaker 2>supply the electrical current to the circuit. So this brings

0:24:16.640 --> 0:24:20.280
<v Speaker 2>us back to the lasagna cell like a frog's leg

0:24:20.560 --> 0:24:23.800
<v Speaker 2>or the inside of a potato. A tray of baked

0:24:23.840 --> 0:24:27.720
<v Speaker 2>pasta like a lasagna, is usually going to be a wet,

0:24:28.080 --> 0:24:32.760
<v Speaker 2>salty mass which will facilitate the flow of electrons if

0:24:32.800 --> 0:24:37.120
<v Speaker 2>it's positioned as the electrolyte in a galvanic cell. And

0:24:37.200 --> 0:24:41.080
<v Speaker 2>it is actually quite easy to turn a baked pasta

0:24:41.080 --> 0:24:44.080
<v Speaker 2>dish into a galvanic cell. All you need to do

0:24:44.320 --> 0:24:49.119
<v Speaker 2>is have two different metals surrounding and touching the lasagna,

0:24:49.800 --> 0:24:53.479
<v Speaker 2>for example, a steel pan covered with a bunch of

0:24:53.600 --> 0:24:57.920
<v Speaker 2>aluminum foil. And this makes a lot of sense. Why

0:24:58.000 --> 0:25:00.560
<v Speaker 2>is this never happened to me? At home? Home? If

0:25:00.600 --> 0:25:03.159
<v Speaker 2>I make a baked pasta. I'm always baking in like

0:25:03.200 --> 0:25:07.280
<v Speaker 2>an you know, glass or earthenware dish. I think this time,

0:25:07.320 --> 0:25:09.480
<v Speaker 2>I don't remember exactly, but I think I may have

0:25:09.600 --> 0:25:13.840
<v Speaker 2>been baking in like a steel or metal tray of

0:25:13.880 --> 0:25:14.440
<v Speaker 2>some kind.

0:25:15.000 --> 0:25:18.000
<v Speaker 1>A lot of less expensive cookware is going to be

0:25:18.040 --> 0:25:23.159
<v Speaker 1>made of a reactive material like steel or or aluminium.

0:25:23.240 --> 0:25:25.760
<v Speaker 1>But I think I think you got steel in this case.

0:25:27.320 --> 0:25:31.560
<v Speaker 2>Possibly it could be. I'm not one hundred percent on this,

0:25:31.600 --> 0:25:33.919
<v Speaker 2>but I think it could still be possible to have

0:25:33.960 --> 0:25:37.359
<v Speaker 2>this with aluminum foil and an aluminum pan if there's like,

0:25:37.480 --> 0:25:40.600
<v Speaker 2>you know, slight differences in the aluminum there. I'm not

0:25:40.640 --> 0:25:42.480
<v Speaker 2>sure about that, but I do think it's possible.

0:25:42.920 --> 0:25:46.760
<v Speaker 1>Generally speaking, aluminium pans are made not with totally pure aluminum,

0:25:46.880 --> 0:25:47.840
<v Speaker 1>so yeah, sure.

0:25:48.480 --> 0:25:50.679
<v Speaker 2>Anyway, So just think of the example of a steel

0:25:50.720 --> 0:25:53.920
<v Speaker 2>pan with baked pasta and it covered in aluminum foil.

0:25:54.119 --> 0:25:58.000
<v Speaker 2>When you do this, the steel functions as the cathode

0:25:58.359 --> 0:26:01.560
<v Speaker 2>and the aluminum is the an, meaning the aluminium is

0:26:01.600 --> 0:26:04.320
<v Speaker 2>the metal that's going to break down into grade. You

0:26:04.440 --> 0:26:09.840
<v Speaker 2>are powering electron flow through this pasta battery and in

0:26:09.880 --> 0:26:14.840
<v Speaker 2>the process dissolving your aluminium into the wet lasagna below,

0:26:15.240 --> 0:26:18.920
<v Speaker 2>creating a disgusting mass, a kind of melt movie slime

0:26:19.359 --> 0:26:23.960
<v Speaker 2>of aluminium ions piling up on the food. And these ions,

0:26:24.040 --> 0:26:25.840
<v Speaker 2>I think that there could be all different kinds of

0:26:26.200 --> 0:26:29.440
<v Speaker 2>aluminum ion or aluminium salt species. I think you get

0:26:29.560 --> 0:26:33.400
<v Speaker 2>a lot of aluminium hydroxide, probably which is from combining

0:26:33.480 --> 0:26:36.720
<v Speaker 2>aluminum combining with water. I think this is probably the

0:26:36.720 --> 0:26:39.440
<v Speaker 2>bulk of the slime. You might also get like aluminium

0:26:39.520 --> 0:26:44.240
<v Speaker 2>chloride chloride from combining with salt in an acidic tomato sauce.

0:26:44.680 --> 0:26:47.919
<v Speaker 2>So I think it is very likely that this is

0:26:47.960 --> 0:26:50.879
<v Speaker 2>what happened to my baked pasta. I made a nasty

0:26:51.320 --> 0:26:55.639
<v Speaker 2>melt movie food battery in my fridge. But I do

0:26:55.680 --> 0:26:57.919
<v Speaker 2>want to add an important caveat, especially because in this

0:26:58.080 --> 0:27:02.040
<v Speaker 2>series of episodes we're talking about mostly about food storage,

0:27:02.240 --> 0:27:05.840
<v Speaker 2>like the storage of cold leftovers. For this to work,

0:27:06.000 --> 0:27:09.199
<v Speaker 2>it didn't need to happen in my fridge or in

0:27:09.240 --> 0:27:12.640
<v Speaker 2>cold storage. It just happened there because that is where

0:27:12.640 --> 0:27:16.000
<v Speaker 2>I covered the pasta with aluminum foil. In fact, I

0:27:16.040 --> 0:27:20.040
<v Speaker 2>am almost certain this would have happened even faster if

0:27:20.080 --> 0:27:23.400
<v Speaker 2>I had covered the steel pan with foil and had

0:27:23.400 --> 0:27:26.119
<v Speaker 2>the foil touching the pasta while it was baking in

0:27:26.160 --> 0:27:31.720
<v Speaker 2>the oven. Because general adage in chemistry, most things happen

0:27:31.840 --> 0:27:36.040
<v Speaker 2>faster when it's hot. This is also true of galvanic corrosion.

0:27:36.640 --> 0:27:39.439
<v Speaker 2>Though hot or cold, the cell still exists and it

0:27:39.480 --> 0:27:43.680
<v Speaker 2>will eventually eat the aluminum either way. Sounds so menacing,

0:27:46.000 --> 0:27:48.760
<v Speaker 2>But Annie, you turned up something interesting, which was that

0:27:49.520 --> 0:27:53.240
<v Speaker 2>there are examples of this happening, like specifically in hot conditions.

0:27:53.480 --> 0:27:55.359
<v Speaker 2>I mean, I think a lot of the lasagna examples

0:27:55.400 --> 0:27:58.320
<v Speaker 2>people talk about are while it's baking in hot conditions,

0:27:58.320 --> 0:28:00.600
<v Speaker 2>but it also happens in like barbecues scenarios.

0:28:00.720 --> 0:28:04.800
<v Speaker 3>Right, Yes, And this is a fun opportunity to use

0:28:05.600 --> 0:28:10.760
<v Speaker 3>very intense terminology when it comes to barbecue. But another

0:28:10.840 --> 0:28:14.280
<v Speaker 3>food instance where galvanic corrosion of food can occur is

0:28:14.400 --> 0:28:19.280
<v Speaker 3>in barbecue when pitmasters use a technique called the Texas crutch.

0:28:19.800 --> 0:28:21.040
<v Speaker 2>Oh yeah, oh yeah.

0:28:21.600 --> 0:28:25.160
<v Speaker 3>This technique entails wrapping the meat in question, usually beef

0:28:25.160 --> 0:28:29.000
<v Speaker 3>brisket or pork shoulder, in aluminum foil about halfway through

0:28:29.040 --> 0:28:31.520
<v Speaker 3>the cook time to prevent what is called the stall

0:28:32.000 --> 0:28:34.359
<v Speaker 3>are when the cooking of the meat is halted by

0:28:34.600 --> 0:28:38.080
<v Speaker 3>the evaporation released as it cooks, which cools the meat

0:28:38.160 --> 0:28:41.360
<v Speaker 3>and stalls the cook time, which in this case is

0:28:41.360 --> 0:28:45.120
<v Speaker 3>not something you want. The aluminum traps all of that

0:28:45.240 --> 0:28:49.200
<v Speaker 3>moisture and ideally the drippings to be reabsorbed later while

0:28:49.240 --> 0:28:53.760
<v Speaker 3>also keeping the temperature. Even if a steel pan is used,

0:28:54.160 --> 0:28:57.240
<v Speaker 3>and especially if the marinade contains any tomatoes or vinegar,

0:28:57.760 --> 0:29:01.320
<v Speaker 3>this process could lead to holes in the aluminum foil

0:29:01.680 --> 0:29:04.280
<v Speaker 3>and a loss of those precious, precious barbecue juices.

0:29:05.640 --> 0:29:10.640
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, so I'm familiar with using a crutch like method myself.

0:29:10.880 --> 0:29:13.400
<v Speaker 2>One tip that I've picked up I don't remember where

0:29:13.440 --> 0:29:16.440
<v Speaker 2>I first encountered this is wrapping it in butcher paper

0:29:16.520 --> 0:29:19.680
<v Speaker 2>instead of foil, and so that helps trap some of

0:29:19.720 --> 0:29:23.600
<v Speaker 2>the heat and moisture. But yeah, it just seems to

0:29:23.600 --> 0:29:25.800
<v Speaker 2>come out nicer than when you wrap it in foil.

0:29:25.880 --> 0:29:28.120
<v Speaker 2>I don't know. The exterior seems a little nicer for

0:29:28.160 --> 0:29:31.200
<v Speaker 2>some reason. I'm not sure exactly why that is. I've

0:29:31.280 --> 0:29:35.120
<v Speaker 2>never noticed galvanic corrosion happening to aluminum foil in a

0:29:35.120 --> 0:29:38.720
<v Speaker 2>barbecue scenario, but I absolutely understand that it could, and

0:29:39.960 --> 0:29:43.120
<v Speaker 2>they were mentioning this in funny shout out. I found

0:29:43.120 --> 0:29:46.640
<v Speaker 2>it amusing that, like the most comprehensive article I have

0:29:46.760 --> 0:29:50.760
<v Speaker 2>found about galvanic corrosion in food preparation is not like

0:29:50.800 --> 0:29:52.880
<v Speaker 2>in a food science journal or something, but it's on

0:29:53.000 --> 0:29:57.480
<v Speaker 2>this barbecue head website called Amazingribs dot com, which, to

0:29:57.520 --> 0:29:59.160
<v Speaker 2>be fair, the site looks pretty solid.

0:30:00.080 --> 0:30:02.680
<v Speaker 1>I use them as a reference all the time on Clair.

0:30:03.040 --> 0:30:04.120
<v Speaker 1>They do great work.

0:30:04.200 --> 0:30:08.320
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, yeah, thumbs up from what I can tell. Yeah,

0:30:08.360 --> 0:30:12.200
<v Speaker 2>but yeah, so they say that like if there's the

0:30:12.240 --> 0:30:14.440
<v Speaker 2>wrong kind of contact or what you're talking about, like

0:30:14.440 --> 0:30:17.200
<v Speaker 2>a steel pan and the wrong kind of juices or

0:30:18.000 --> 0:30:21.240
<v Speaker 2>you know, a salty or acidic marinad or maybe I

0:30:21.240 --> 0:30:23.400
<v Speaker 2>think there could also be issues with just like aluminum

0:30:23.400 --> 0:30:26.360
<v Speaker 2>foil touching the grill grates. If there's you know, the

0:30:26.400 --> 0:30:30.200
<v Speaker 2>wrong configuration, you can sometimes get like pitting or corrosion

0:30:30.240 --> 0:30:32.080
<v Speaker 2>of the aluminum foil around the meat.

0:30:32.440 --> 0:30:35.360
<v Speaker 3>Yes, and if you want more details, they've got them.

0:30:36.080 --> 0:30:37.920
<v Speaker 3>They are very serious about barbecue.

0:30:37.960 --> 0:30:43.160
<v Speaker 1>A lot of people are oh yeah, yes, yes, we

0:30:44.120 --> 0:30:46.440
<v Speaker 1>just did an episode about Memphis style barbecue. It's our

0:30:46.440 --> 0:30:51.480
<v Speaker 1>first like foray into talking about regional barbecue without having

0:30:51.560 --> 0:30:54.640
<v Speaker 1>gone to the place and interviewed humans involved with it,

0:30:55.200 --> 0:30:56.120
<v Speaker 1>and we were.

0:30:57.920 --> 0:31:01.560
<v Speaker 2>Anxious some cautions involved yeah.

0:31:01.600 --> 0:31:03.120
<v Speaker 3>Oh, yes, people take.

0:31:03.000 --> 0:31:04.360
<v Speaker 2>Barbecue traditions seriously.

0:31:04.560 --> 0:31:04.880
<v Speaker 3>They do.

0:31:05.160 --> 0:31:10.320
<v Speaker 1>We just wanted to be respectful and as correct as possible. Yeah,

0:31:10.400 --> 0:31:13.120
<v Speaker 1>we did our best. We did our best.

0:31:13.200 --> 0:31:14.120
<v Speaker 2>I'm sure we all did great.

0:31:14.480 --> 0:31:15.120
<v Speaker 1>I hope so.

0:31:25.760 --> 0:31:26.040
<v Speaker 2>Well.

0:31:26.280 --> 0:31:29.000
<v Speaker 3>Something else I wanted to bring up here. I've never

0:31:29.040 --> 0:31:33.240
<v Speaker 3>heard of this, but there is something called oral galvanism.

0:31:33.280 --> 0:31:37.160
<v Speaker 3>I am not a dentist, but briefly, this refers to

0:31:37.200 --> 0:31:41.080
<v Speaker 3>a situation where the human mouth produces electric currents due

0:31:41.120 --> 0:31:44.240
<v Speaker 3>to a variety of chemical factors and interactions between the

0:31:44.320 --> 0:31:47.720
<v Speaker 3>dental materials used for things like crowns, fillings, or braces

0:31:48.160 --> 0:31:51.080
<v Speaker 3>and how they interact with saliva and certain types of food.

0:31:51.840 --> 0:31:54.680
<v Speaker 3>And this can lead to the accelerated breakdown of these

0:31:54.760 --> 0:31:56.959
<v Speaker 3>dental materials, and dentists are still looking into this.

0:31:57.000 --> 0:32:00.720
<v Speaker 2>By the way, this is interesting. I look into it. Yeah,

0:32:00.760 --> 0:32:04.640
<v Speaker 2>so you can essentially do the lasagna cell type thing,

0:32:04.680 --> 0:32:08.080
<v Speaker 2>but in your mouth, with your wet mouth, the saliva,

0:32:08.320 --> 0:32:10.680
<v Speaker 2>the flesh, the tongue and all that, instead of the

0:32:10.680 --> 0:32:13.680
<v Speaker 2>baked pasta or the potato and potato battery. Yeah, you

0:32:13.720 --> 0:32:16.640
<v Speaker 2>can create a flow of electric current in the mouth.

0:32:17.040 --> 0:32:19.120
<v Speaker 2>And I came across a really good and I thought

0:32:19.200 --> 0:32:23.719
<v Speaker 2>kind of funny anecdote from history about oral galvanism. This

0:32:23.760 --> 0:32:26.520
<v Speaker 2>doesn't have to do with corrosion. This is just about

0:32:26.520 --> 0:32:29.680
<v Speaker 2>the flow of electricity in the mouth, and the core

0:32:29.760 --> 0:32:31.960
<v Speaker 2>takeaway is that it is not hard at all to

0:32:32.120 --> 0:32:35.720
<v Speaker 2>create a simple battery cell inside your mouth with saliva

0:32:35.760 --> 0:32:41.560
<v Speaker 2>as the electrolyte. There was this eighteenth century Swiss mathematics

0:32:41.560 --> 0:32:47.480
<v Speaker 2>professor and philosopher named Johann Georg Sulzer who in his

0:32:47.520 --> 0:32:51.120
<v Speaker 2>philosophy work he was really interested in the concepts of

0:32:51.200 --> 0:32:55.440
<v Speaker 2>pleasure and esthetics, like the questions what makes something beautiful?

0:32:55.800 --> 0:33:00.280
<v Speaker 2>And why is beauty pleasurable? But Sulzer was all so

0:33:00.600 --> 0:33:05.760
<v Speaker 2>famous for exploring novel dimensions of taste and pleasure with

0:33:05.880 --> 0:33:08.719
<v Speaker 2>his own body as the test subject. We might call

0:33:08.800 --> 0:33:12.080
<v Speaker 2>him like a heat of not And the main example

0:33:12.120 --> 0:33:14.640
<v Speaker 2>I've got here is that he was one of the

0:33:14.680 --> 0:33:21.120
<v Speaker 2>first people to describe what electrical current tastes like electro gustationian,

0:33:21.720 --> 0:33:24.200
<v Speaker 2>though he didn't realize that's what it was. He didn't understand.

0:33:24.280 --> 0:33:27.560
<v Speaker 2>This was before Galvani and volta. He didn't understand what

0:33:28.600 --> 0:33:32.480
<v Speaker 2>electrical current was. But he did describe this experience in

0:33:32.520 --> 0:33:36.480
<v Speaker 2>a paper published in seventeen fifty two in his right. Now,

0:33:36.520 --> 0:33:37.920
<v Speaker 2>I've got a picture of him for you to look

0:33:37.960 --> 0:33:39.920
<v Speaker 2>at here. Just look at that little smirk on his face,

0:33:40.000 --> 0:33:44.400
<v Speaker 2>like he's experiencing pleasure and pain indivisible, I believe.

0:33:45.160 --> 0:33:47.160
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, yeah, no, that is a dude who is currently

0:33:47.280 --> 0:33:48.680
<v Speaker 1>tasting current. I love it.

0:33:50.600 --> 0:33:54.480
<v Speaker 2>But in this writing, Solzer describes this experiment where he

0:33:54.520 --> 0:33:57.600
<v Speaker 2>takes two metals. One is a piece of silver, the

0:33:57.920 --> 0:34:00.520
<v Speaker 2>other metal. I've seen it widely reported that the other

0:34:00.600 --> 0:34:03.320
<v Speaker 2>metal was lead, but then other sources said, no, it's

0:34:03.360 --> 0:34:07.520
<v Speaker 2>not lead. There's silver and another metal. Unclear what the

0:34:07.520 --> 0:34:10.719
<v Speaker 2>second one is. And while these two metal plates were

0:34:10.960 --> 0:34:13.680
<v Speaker 2>touching one another at one end, he took the other

0:34:13.880 --> 0:34:18.480
<v Speaker 2>ends and pressed them on opposite sides of his tongue,

0:34:18.640 --> 0:34:23.160
<v Speaker 2>and in between them he tasted something weird, a flavor

0:34:23.200 --> 0:34:27.680
<v Speaker 2>he described as similar to that of iron vitriol, which

0:34:27.719 --> 0:34:30.959
<v Speaker 2>is what they used to call iron two sulfate. Why

0:34:31.000 --> 0:34:34.279
<v Speaker 2>did he already know what iron vitriol tasted like? I'm

0:34:34.320 --> 0:34:36.279
<v Speaker 2>not sure. I think this guy was probably tasting a

0:34:36.320 --> 0:34:41.520
<v Speaker 2>lot of stuff. Yeah, yeah, cool, Yeah, nothing wrong with that. Well,

0:34:41.600 --> 0:34:44.080
<v Speaker 2>I mean there might be some dangers involved.

0:34:44.120 --> 0:34:49.960
<v Speaker 4>But another food dared devil ice exactly, yes, but he

0:34:50.600 --> 0:34:53.400
<v Speaker 4>noticed that he did not get any of that metallic

0:34:53.440 --> 0:34:56.719
<v Speaker 4>flavor when he touched either of the two metals to

0:34:56.760 --> 0:35:01.040
<v Speaker 4>his tongue independently, only when they were both on the.

0:35:01.000 --> 0:35:04.279
<v Speaker 2>Tongue at the same time and touching each other at

0:35:04.320 --> 0:35:08.080
<v Speaker 2>the other end. So the flavor that he tasted was

0:35:08.120 --> 0:35:12.040
<v Speaker 2>the flavor of his tongue functioning as the electrolyte in

0:35:12.080 --> 0:35:13.120
<v Speaker 2>the galvanic circuit.

0:35:13.480 --> 0:35:15.840
<v Speaker 3>I believe that this is at a modern restaurant somewhere

0:35:15.840 --> 0:35:17.000
<v Speaker 3>they're doing something like this.

0:35:19.239 --> 0:35:21.640
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, what are the You'll probably know a lot better

0:35:21.680 --> 0:35:24.000
<v Speaker 2>than I do, Like, what are the weirdest, most cutting

0:35:24.080 --> 0:35:26.320
<v Speaker 2>edge restaurants out of there? What are they doing that's

0:35:26.360 --> 0:35:28.720
<v Speaker 2>like barely considered food these days?

0:35:29.120 --> 0:35:30.680
<v Speaker 3>I don't know, like a lot of foams.

0:35:31.840 --> 0:35:34.960
<v Speaker 1>Okay, Yeah, I'm not actually up on it right now,

0:35:35.640 --> 0:35:39.160
<v Speaker 1>but I do recommend the movie The Menu to anyone

0:35:39.320 --> 0:35:41.640
<v Speaker 1>who likes horror films and has not seen it yet.

0:35:41.760 --> 0:35:42.600
<v Speaker 1>It's pretty great.

0:35:42.960 --> 0:35:44.600
<v Speaker 2>I actually haven't seen that. I've had it on my

0:35:44.640 --> 0:35:45.360
<v Speaker 2>list for a while.

0:35:46.200 --> 0:35:50.040
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, if you're into watching cooking shows and like in

0:35:50.120 --> 0:35:54.680
<v Speaker 1>like cooking documentaries, specifically Chef's Table, they got they got

0:35:54.719 --> 0:35:57.680
<v Speaker 1>like the director of photography for chef's table to come

0:35:58.840 --> 0:36:02.640
<v Speaker 1>help them on shoot, and it shows it's what it is,

0:36:02.760 --> 0:36:05.719
<v Speaker 1>wonderful satire. I saw it in a movie theater with

0:36:05.760 --> 0:36:08.879
<v Speaker 1>the whole row of restaurant industry kids and like we

0:36:08.880 --> 0:36:09.719
<v Speaker 1>were cackling.

0:36:10.880 --> 0:36:15.600
<v Speaker 2>So like beautiful food photography or food cinematography, but also gross.

0:36:16.080 --> 0:36:17.120
<v Speaker 3>I wouldn't say gross.

0:36:17.239 --> 0:36:19.440
<v Speaker 2>Oh okay, well I just thought my brain went there

0:36:19.440 --> 0:36:20.120
<v Speaker 2>because of horror.

0:36:20.160 --> 0:36:21.640
<v Speaker 1>But yeah, it's mostly.

0:36:21.640 --> 0:36:24.920
<v Speaker 3>It's a satire about where they're making fun of the

0:36:25.080 --> 0:36:25.719
<v Speaker 3>cutting edge.

0:36:25.800 --> 0:36:28.560
<v Speaker 1>This is what I had to do, okay to keep

0:36:28.800 --> 0:36:32.799
<v Speaker 1>astronomy kind of yeah, yeah, yeah, okay, like yes, this

0:36:32.880 --> 0:36:36.480
<v Speaker 1>is the breadless bread course today. Today we're serving you

0:36:36.520 --> 0:36:37.840
<v Speaker 1>the idea of bread.

0:36:38.440 --> 0:36:42.399
<v Speaker 3>Here's a taco with your greatest secret printed on it. Yeah,

0:36:42.440 --> 0:36:43.040
<v Speaker 3>things like that.

0:36:43.320 --> 0:36:46.360
<v Speaker 2>Yeah okay, but we got to come back to the

0:36:46.640 --> 0:36:50.120
<v Speaker 2>pasta eating the aluminum foil, my tray of pasta with

0:36:50.160 --> 0:36:53.160
<v Speaker 2>this like lotus pod trip to phobia trigger pattern of

0:36:53.160 --> 0:36:57.359
<v Speaker 2>holes in the aluminum. Poking around on the internet, there

0:36:57.520 --> 0:37:02.640
<v Speaker 2>is another possibility to explain what happened beyond galvanic corrosion.

0:37:03.520 --> 0:37:07.280
<v Speaker 2>Some sources out there talking about the corrosion of aluminum

0:37:07.320 --> 0:37:12.319
<v Speaker 2>foil by food also point to the possibility that acidic

0:37:12.480 --> 0:37:18.960
<v Speaker 2>foods can dissolve aluminum by a different mechanism than galvanic corrosion,

0:37:19.400 --> 0:37:23.080
<v Speaker 2>and from what I can tell, this is also true.

0:37:23.120 --> 0:37:28.480
<v Speaker 2>Acidic foods like tomatoes can indeed dissolve bits of aluminum

0:37:28.560 --> 0:37:32.839
<v Speaker 2>from cooking and storage vessels and from aluminum foil. And

0:37:32.880 --> 0:37:36.240
<v Speaker 2>in fact, this is not a new observation or concern.

0:37:36.640 --> 0:37:42.520
<v Speaker 2>Fears about tomatoes and other acidic foods, specifically tomatoes dissolving

0:37:42.600 --> 0:37:47.600
<v Speaker 2>metal containers, both founded and unfounded fears go back for centuries.

0:37:47.680 --> 0:37:49.080
<v Speaker 2>Right they do?

0:37:50.320 --> 0:37:53.800
<v Speaker 3>They do? And so when you've suggested this topic, Joe,

0:37:54.360 --> 0:37:57.200
<v Speaker 3>it was really interesting to me because through the research

0:37:57.239 --> 0:38:00.319
<v Speaker 3>that Lauren and I have done on savor, I knew

0:38:00.520 --> 0:38:03.560
<v Speaker 3>that historically there is a precedent for this, or at

0:38:03.640 --> 0:38:08.040
<v Speaker 3>least something similar. When tomatoes arrived in Europe from the

0:38:08.080 --> 0:38:11.960
<v Speaker 3>Americas in the fifteen hundreds, many believed them to be

0:38:12.040 --> 0:38:16.600
<v Speaker 3>poisonous at first, especially wealthy Europeans. There were a lot

0:38:16.640 --> 0:38:20.240
<v Speaker 3>of reasons why the leaves and stems are lightly poisonous.

0:38:20.560 --> 0:38:24.520
<v Speaker 3>I learned this research just to have my research.

0:38:26.600 --> 0:38:29.560
<v Speaker 1>I read recently that you can eat tomato leaves and

0:38:29.600 --> 0:38:31.600
<v Speaker 1>this blew my mind, and I'm not sure I need

0:38:31.600 --> 0:38:33.480
<v Speaker 1>to look further into it that this has been like

0:38:33.520 --> 0:38:36.480
<v Speaker 1>on my list to look into for a couple months now.

0:38:36.680 --> 0:38:39.200
<v Speaker 2>Is it one of those things that's a question of dose.

0:38:39.680 --> 0:38:42.840
<v Speaker 3>Yes. Basically what I read was like, yeah, it's poisonous,

0:38:42.880 --> 0:38:47.279
<v Speaker 3>but so is alcohol, Like yeah, okay, like small dosage.

0:38:47.520 --> 0:38:49.759
<v Speaker 3>Don't take my word for that. Now. That was a

0:38:49.840 --> 0:38:53.120
<v Speaker 3>very brief research, but I have all believed that they were.

0:38:53.800 --> 0:38:55.439
<v Speaker 1>Yes, But anyway, Yes.

0:38:56.480 --> 0:38:59.759
<v Speaker 3>Another thing that most relates to what we're talking about

0:38:59.760 --> 0:39:03.120
<v Speaker 3>to for why people thought tomatoes might be poisonous is

0:39:03.160 --> 0:39:07.080
<v Speaker 3>that in the seventeen hundreds, these well off Europeans often

0:39:07.400 --> 0:39:10.640
<v Speaker 3>ate off of these pewter plates that were high in

0:39:10.719 --> 0:39:15.160
<v Speaker 3>lead content. The high acid levels from the tomato sometimes

0:39:15.200 --> 0:39:18.480
<v Speaker 3>would cause lead leakage that could result in lead poisoning

0:39:18.880 --> 0:39:23.120
<v Speaker 3>and even death. Because of this, rich Europeans would keep

0:39:23.160 --> 0:39:26.319
<v Speaker 3>the tomato as a decoration, poisoned close to them but

0:39:26.400 --> 0:39:29.399
<v Speaker 3>not eaten. But yeah, they would not eat them, even

0:39:29.440 --> 0:39:32.240
<v Speaker 3>going so far as to call them the poison apple.

0:39:33.239 --> 0:39:36.320
<v Speaker 3>This attitude and belief was also exported to European colonies

0:39:36.320 --> 0:39:40.560
<v Speaker 3>and colonists with the help of some prominent botanist around

0:39:40.560 --> 0:39:41.760
<v Speaker 3>the world for many centuries.

0:39:42.360 --> 0:39:44.799
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, this was a thing at parties, like these rich

0:39:44.880 --> 0:39:48.160
<v Speaker 1>humans would just have a table decoration of this thing

0:39:48.200 --> 0:39:51.200
<v Speaker 1>that they thought was poisonous. Yeah, they were like, what

0:39:51.280 --> 0:39:53.799
<v Speaker 1>a fun party, guys, look at this poisonous thing. I

0:39:53.880 --> 0:39:54.480
<v Speaker 1>paid so.

0:39:54.480 --> 0:39:58.120
<v Speaker 3>Much money for this poisonous thing to not look at it.

0:39:58.440 --> 0:40:02.880
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I only know the slightest, like headline version of this.

0:40:02.960 --> 0:40:05.239
<v Speaker 2>But have you all ever talked about is it true

0:40:05.280 --> 0:40:10.200
<v Speaker 2>that rich people in England used to rent pineapples that

0:40:10.239 --> 0:40:11.640
<v Speaker 2>they could display at parties.

0:40:11.800 --> 0:40:14.800
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, they would carry them around like as a point

0:40:14.840 --> 0:40:18.759
<v Speaker 1>of interest, but it was too expensive to buy the pineapples,

0:40:18.960 --> 0:40:20.400
<v Speaker 1>they would rent the pineapple.

0:40:21.080 --> 0:40:21.279
<v Speaker 3>Yep.

0:40:21.680 --> 0:40:22.160
<v Speaker 2>Perfect.

0:40:22.719 --> 0:40:24.560
<v Speaker 3>Rich people got up to some stuff, and I still

0:40:24.600 --> 0:40:29.320
<v Speaker 3>do and still too. That being said, the poorer classes

0:40:29.320 --> 0:40:33.400
<v Speaker 3>didn't have this tomato wead problem because they didn't have

0:40:33.440 --> 0:40:36.480
<v Speaker 3>the fancy lead filled plates, so they were able to

0:40:36.520 --> 0:40:40.479
<v Speaker 3>eat tomatoes without issue, particularly in Italy, if they could

0:40:40.480 --> 0:40:42.760
<v Speaker 3>get them anyway, because they weren't widely grown in Europe

0:40:42.800 --> 0:40:46.680
<v Speaker 3>at the time and they were often very expensive, and

0:40:46.760 --> 0:40:49.120
<v Speaker 3>not every European country had this hang up. To be clear,

0:40:49.640 --> 0:40:51.719
<v Speaker 3>I'm pretty sure most of France was like, no, this

0:40:51.840 --> 0:40:55.880
<v Speaker 3>is cool. But by the eighteen hundreds, in part thanks

0:40:55.880 --> 0:40:59.000
<v Speaker 3>to the invention of pizza, the belief that tomatoes were

0:40:59.000 --> 0:41:00.680
<v Speaker 3>poisonous largely fell away.

0:41:01.200 --> 0:41:05.160
<v Speaker 1>There was also one event where this dude like publicly

0:41:05.280 --> 0:41:08.000
<v Speaker 1>was like, look, y'all, tomatoes are not poisonous and sat

0:41:08.040 --> 0:41:10.360
<v Speaker 1>on the steps of a church, I believe, and just

0:41:10.560 --> 0:41:13.200
<v Speaker 1>ate was like, I'm gonna go eat some tomatoes. Come

0:41:13.239 --> 0:41:16.120
<v Speaker 1>watch me. And a bunch of people showed up, hoping,

0:41:16.239 --> 0:41:18.680
<v Speaker 1>I guess, to see something grizzly occur. But he just

0:41:18.800 --> 0:41:20.759
<v Speaker 1>he just ate a bunch of tomatoes and eventually the

0:41:20.800 --> 0:41:21.799
<v Speaker 1>crowd dispersed.

0:41:23.040 --> 0:41:25.360
<v Speaker 3>Wasn't that in the US? That one was in the US?

0:41:25.440 --> 0:41:26.200
<v Speaker 1>Oh I'm not sure.

0:41:26.920 --> 0:41:29.680
<v Speaker 2>I love I'd love to know what they imagined might happen.

0:41:30.640 --> 0:41:32.480
<v Speaker 1>Oh for him to die?

0:41:34.760 --> 0:41:36.600
<v Speaker 3>You know, they were to be fair.

0:41:36.640 --> 0:41:38.680
<v Speaker 1>This was before Netflix, Like, people had to make their

0:41:38.680 --> 0:41:39.120
<v Speaker 1>own fun.

0:41:39.440 --> 0:41:44.320
<v Speaker 2>So the food deer devil. If food deer devils are devil.

0:41:44.760 --> 0:41:47.520
<v Speaker 3>I mean recently someone in New York ate like a

0:41:47.560 --> 0:41:49.799
<v Speaker 3>ton of cheese puffs and a crowd showed up. So

0:41:49.920 --> 0:41:53.360
<v Speaker 3>I think these kind of food events attract a certain

0:41:53.400 --> 0:41:53.879
<v Speaker 3>crowd of.

0:41:53.840 --> 0:41:57.239
<v Speaker 1>Folks competitive eating. Hey, yeah, here we are.

0:41:58.239 --> 0:41:59.880
<v Speaker 3>This is also more of a fun tidbit, but I

0:41:59.920 --> 0:42:02.760
<v Speaker 3>just want to throw it in here because it is fun.

0:42:03.480 --> 0:42:06.040
<v Speaker 3>There was a belief at the time that certain members

0:42:06.080 --> 0:42:08.919
<v Speaker 3>of the night shade family, like tomatoes, could be used

0:42:08.920 --> 0:42:12.120
<v Speaker 3>to summon wear wolves. In the sixteen hundred, some botanists

0:42:12.200 --> 0:42:14.920
<v Speaker 3>argued that the tomatoes should be reclassified in a new

0:42:14.960 --> 0:42:19.440
<v Speaker 3>grouping of plants called lycopersicon, which is Greek for wolf peach. So,

0:42:19.560 --> 0:42:22.760
<v Speaker 3>if you've ever wondered if there was an etymological connection

0:42:22.880 --> 0:42:27.760
<v Speaker 3>between the lycopene and tomatoes and lycanthropy, there is.

0:42:28.080 --> 0:42:33.000
<v Speaker 2>Oh nice lycopene is that the is that like the

0:42:33.040 --> 0:42:34.840
<v Speaker 2>red compound and the tomato peel.

0:42:35.719 --> 0:42:38.400
<v Speaker 3>I believe, so I know it got a big health

0:42:38.480 --> 0:42:41.480
<v Speaker 3>boost like two decades ago because people were saying it

0:42:41.520 --> 0:42:47.600
<v Speaker 3>was very healthy and could possibly combat cancer. So lycopine

0:42:47.640 --> 0:42:49.920
<v Speaker 3>got a real health boost, and I knew it was

0:42:49.960 --> 0:42:55.839
<v Speaker 3>in tomatoes. Yeah, well, okay, recently, very recently actually, as

0:42:55.880 --> 0:43:00.160
<v Speaker 3>of twenty twenty three, some scientists have cast doubt on

0:43:00.200 --> 0:43:03.640
<v Speaker 3>this lead poisoning caused by tomatoes theory, reasoning that the

0:43:03.680 --> 0:43:07.760
<v Speaker 3>amount of lead leached from the plates by the tomatoes

0:43:07.760 --> 0:43:11.520
<v Speaker 3>acidity would have to be quite substantial to ever make

0:43:11.560 --> 0:43:15.040
<v Speaker 3>anyone sick. Instead, they suggest it was more likely that

0:43:15.080 --> 0:43:19.839
<v Speaker 3>people assumed it was poisonous due to its scientific classification

0:43:20.440 --> 0:43:23.680
<v Speaker 3>and its resemblance to other deadly night shades, because at

0:43:23.680 --> 0:43:26.720
<v Speaker 3>the time tomatoes were small and they often looked like berries,

0:43:26.880 --> 0:43:31.480
<v Speaker 3>similar in appearance to the poisonous belladonna. Oh, interesting, it's

0:43:31.520 --> 0:43:33.839
<v Speaker 3>a lot of classification. Mayhem, to be honest with.

0:43:33.840 --> 0:43:38.200
<v Speaker 2>You, I mean, in the nineteenth century, European society was

0:43:38.280 --> 0:43:41.200
<v Speaker 2>not wanting for causes of lead poisoning.

0:43:42.800 --> 0:43:45.760
<v Speaker 3>That's also true. It could have been many things.

0:43:48.160 --> 0:43:51.120
<v Speaker 2>In a lot of industrial manufacturing and even just sort

0:43:51.120 --> 0:43:53.839
<v Speaker 2>of like craft shop scenarios, people were exposed to lead

0:43:53.880 --> 0:43:57.399
<v Speaker 2>through their work or through products that they consumed. So yeah,

0:43:57.560 --> 0:43:59.399
<v Speaker 2>there were a lot of ways to get it back

0:43:59.440 --> 0:43:59.839
<v Speaker 2>in the day.

0:44:00.200 --> 0:44:02.480
<v Speaker 3>The interesting thing is there are a lot of accounts

0:44:02.520 --> 0:44:07.160
<v Speaker 3>of people vomiting profusely after consuming tomatoes, but a lot

0:44:07.200 --> 0:44:09.680
<v Speaker 3>of it felt more like people saying that was happening

0:44:09.719 --> 0:44:14.080
<v Speaker 3>unless than it was actually happening. But you can, if

0:44:14.120 --> 0:44:18.480
<v Speaker 3>you like me love a good horrifying historical quote about

0:44:18.480 --> 0:44:21.279
<v Speaker 3>tomatoes and how they could kill you, you can find them.

0:44:22.200 --> 0:44:24.960
<v Speaker 3>But it sounded like it was mostly people being like

0:44:25.719 --> 0:44:28.759
<v Speaker 3>trying to scare you. I could be wrong. I wasn't there.

0:44:31.920 --> 0:44:36.200
<v Speaker 3>But I also this got me thinking because I wonder

0:44:36.239 --> 0:44:39.719
<v Speaker 3>if there were instances of the tomatoes acid eating away

0:44:39.719 --> 0:44:43.319
<v Speaker 3>at the integrity of plates or other food vessels and

0:44:43.480 --> 0:44:47.560
<v Speaker 3>or causing visible corrosion, and maybe that contributing to the

0:44:47.600 --> 0:44:51.920
<v Speaker 3>fear of tomatoes, because I remember having vague fears when

0:44:51.960 --> 0:44:54.920
<v Speaker 3>I would notice visible corrosion on some of my cookware

0:44:55.160 --> 0:44:59.239
<v Speaker 3>plates and being concerned that I was ingesting something I

0:44:59.239 --> 0:44:59.799
<v Speaker 3>shouldn't be in.

0:44:59.800 --> 0:45:03.000
<v Speaker 2>Jes yeah, yeah, doesn't feel good.

0:45:03.360 --> 0:45:05.480
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, and that is a real thing. Like, like, the

0:45:05.560 --> 0:45:10.000
<v Speaker 1>issue is that some materials are reactive to acids and

0:45:10.080 --> 0:45:14.000
<v Speaker 1>bases both can erode metal surfaces, especially over time and

0:45:14.120 --> 0:45:17.920
<v Speaker 1>especially when heat is involved, as Joe said earlier, and

0:45:17.960 --> 0:45:20.280
<v Speaker 1>this can cause anything from like a little weird tint

0:45:20.320 --> 0:45:23.600
<v Speaker 1>to your food to maybe a metallic taste to your food,

0:45:24.520 --> 0:45:28.440
<v Speaker 1>to actually bad levels of various metals getting into and

0:45:28.480 --> 0:45:32.200
<v Speaker 1>perhaps hanging out in your body. So you know, like

0:45:32.600 --> 0:45:37.160
<v Speaker 1>very basically, if you can afford to avoid aluminum cook wear,

0:45:37.440 --> 0:45:40.719
<v Speaker 1>do that. Cast iron is reactive, but not really a

0:45:40.719 --> 0:45:44.080
<v Speaker 1>worry like like like iron particles are basically fine in

0:45:44.120 --> 0:45:48.040
<v Speaker 1>your body if you can afford to ruin copper pants

0:45:48.040 --> 0:45:50.120
<v Speaker 1>with tomato sauce. I don't think you're worried about any

0:45:50.160 --> 0:45:54.640
<v Speaker 1>potential health effects that you might be seeing, but yeah, like, like, generally,

0:45:54.760 --> 0:45:56.919
<v Speaker 1>if you're going to be cooking anything ascitic, like wine

0:45:56.960 --> 0:46:00.880
<v Speaker 1>or tomatoes, or if you're just boiling lemon juice or

0:46:01.280 --> 0:46:05.400
<v Speaker 1>sodium bicarbonate, look for non reactive cookwaar like stainless steel

0:46:05.520 --> 0:46:08.960
<v Speaker 1>or enameled pieces glassware for the oven. Yeah.

0:46:09.440 --> 0:46:11.920
<v Speaker 3>Yes, and my goodness, there are a lot of tips

0:46:11.920 --> 0:46:14.799
<v Speaker 3>out there about what types of pants to use with

0:46:14.800 --> 0:46:18.480
<v Speaker 3>what ingredients, and there are even whole articles dedicated to

0:46:18.600 --> 0:46:22.000
<v Speaker 3>acidic items like tomatoes. People do love to fight about it,

0:46:22.160 --> 0:46:25.480
<v Speaker 3>I'll say, even though there's solid science. But if you're

0:46:25.480 --> 0:46:28.560
<v Speaker 3>worried about it or curious, there is plenty of information

0:46:28.680 --> 0:46:31.800
<v Speaker 3>out there. And if you want to learn more about

0:46:31.800 --> 0:46:36.200
<v Speaker 3>the tomatoes frankly wild history, you can check out Savers

0:46:36.400 --> 0:46:39.840
<v Speaker 3>Tomato Reducts episode it is. I had to cut some

0:46:39.880 --> 0:46:42.239
<v Speaker 3>stuff out of this recap because I was like, this

0:46:42.320 --> 0:46:44.440
<v Speaker 3>is not actually related, but it's so interesting.

0:46:45.239 --> 0:46:48.399
<v Speaker 2>Okay, So savor tomato reducts in the search bar. I'll

0:46:48.440 --> 0:46:48.960
<v Speaker 2>get people done.

0:46:49.080 --> 0:46:49.400
<v Speaker 3>Yeah.

0:46:49.480 --> 0:46:52.120
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it's a good entry point to saver folks.

0:46:52.360 --> 0:46:55.080
<v Speaker 3>Oh, it's a fun one. Were Wolves is only the

0:46:55.160 --> 0:46:56.160
<v Speaker 3>tip of the iceberg.

0:47:07.320 --> 0:47:09.839
<v Speaker 2>Okay, So I guess we want to come back to

0:47:09.920 --> 0:47:14.640
<v Speaker 2>the question of what happened to the pasta in my

0:47:14.760 --> 0:47:16.919
<v Speaker 2>case and in these other cases on the internet, where

0:47:16.960 --> 0:47:19.960
<v Speaker 2>you know lasagna is melting people's aluminum oil not melting

0:47:20.000 --> 0:47:24.480
<v Speaker 2>but dissolving, making these ugly piles of ions. So acidic

0:47:24.520 --> 0:47:28.080
<v Speaker 2>tomato sauce like you would often find in a lasagna

0:47:28.160 --> 0:47:33.080
<v Speaker 2>or a baked penna, can sometimes dissolve aluminum, but from

0:47:33.239 --> 0:47:38.680
<v Speaker 2>everything I've read, this acid metal reaction is typically much

0:47:38.920 --> 0:47:43.759
<v Speaker 2>slower and results in a lot less aluminum being dissolved

0:47:44.239 --> 0:47:48.320
<v Speaker 2>than you would have in the case of galvanic corrosion. However,

0:47:48.520 --> 0:47:52.120
<v Speaker 2>the fact that acidic tomato sauce is present may actually

0:47:52.160 --> 0:47:56.520
<v Speaker 2>help speed up the aluminum eating reaction in a galvanic

0:47:56.760 --> 0:48:00.600
<v Speaker 2>lasagna cell. However, even though this is it's all pretty

0:48:00.600 --> 0:48:03.680
<v Speaker 2>well established chemistry that you can figure out just by reading,

0:48:04.480 --> 0:48:07.120
<v Speaker 2>I wanted to see it for myself. I wanted to

0:48:07.120 --> 0:48:11.680
<v Speaker 2>see if I could create a galvanic corrosion reaction in

0:48:11.840 --> 0:48:15.920
<v Speaker 2>food on demand. So yesterday I did an experiment. I

0:48:15.960 --> 0:48:21.040
<v Speaker 2>started staging an aluminum souer kraut melt movie experiment. So

0:48:21.320 --> 0:48:25.440
<v Speaker 2>I put out two dishes of sauer kraut on my stovetop.

0:48:26.160 --> 0:48:30.080
<v Speaker 2>Sauerkraut is I think a good electrolyte, is both salty

0:48:30.120 --> 0:48:34.000
<v Speaker 2>and acidic. And one of these I put in a

0:48:34.080 --> 0:48:38.120
<v Speaker 2>steel pan. The other one I put in a ceramic dish.

0:48:38.440 --> 0:48:41.680
<v Speaker 2>I covered both of them with aluminum foil, making sure

0:48:41.719 --> 0:48:44.480
<v Speaker 2>to press down the aluminum foil to the sides of

0:48:44.480 --> 0:48:47.800
<v Speaker 2>the container so to connect them, have them in contact

0:48:48.239 --> 0:48:50.719
<v Speaker 2>on the outside, and then also to press down the

0:48:50.760 --> 0:48:53.320
<v Speaker 2>foil in the middle so that it was firmly touching

0:48:53.360 --> 0:48:56.839
<v Speaker 2>the sauer kraut. And what happened here, well, I gave

0:48:56.840 --> 0:49:00.000
<v Speaker 2>it some time, and by God, the results are beautiful.

0:49:00.239 --> 0:49:03.440
<v Speaker 2>Within just a few hours at room temperature, there was

0:49:03.520 --> 0:49:07.000
<v Speaker 2>already a noticeable difference. Ay and Lauren, I have some

0:49:07.040 --> 0:49:08.960
<v Speaker 2>pictures in the outline for you to look at here.

0:49:09.280 --> 0:49:11.839
<v Speaker 2>This was this first picture. I don't know how much

0:49:11.880 --> 0:49:13.279
<v Speaker 2>you can see in that, but I've got another close

0:49:13.360 --> 0:49:17.080
<v Speaker 2>up down below. So I've got the steel pan on

0:49:17.120 --> 0:49:19.840
<v Speaker 2>top here and the ceramic pan below, or the ceramic

0:49:19.880 --> 0:49:23.640
<v Speaker 2>dish below. The ceramic shows no signs of change from

0:49:23.640 --> 0:49:26.360
<v Speaker 2>the outside, but the steel pan already after just a

0:49:26.400 --> 0:49:30.080
<v Speaker 2>few hours, has some creepy dark holes and pitting that

0:49:30.120 --> 0:49:32.960
<v Speaker 2>you can see in the close up. And then after

0:49:33.000 --> 0:49:35.080
<v Speaker 2>this in the outline, I've got some more photos from

0:49:35.120 --> 0:49:38.120
<v Speaker 2>this morning when it had had i guess probably about

0:49:38.160 --> 0:49:41.560
<v Speaker 2>eighteen hours to go at room temperature. And here you

0:49:41.640 --> 0:49:45.839
<v Speaker 2>really start seeing the horror. The holes are bigger, they

0:49:45.880 --> 0:49:48.719
<v Speaker 2>look gnarlier. I mean, they're still not like gigantic, but

0:49:48.760 --> 0:49:51.760
<v Speaker 2>they look creepy. They look like something that you shouldn't

0:49:51.800 --> 0:49:54.520
<v Speaker 2>be eating. And then I've also got a shot of

0:49:54.560 --> 0:49:58.040
<v Speaker 2>the sauer Kraut below where you can see the dissolved

0:49:58.080 --> 0:50:02.120
<v Speaker 2>aluminium ions on the top the cabbage as these gray

0:50:02.640 --> 0:50:07.360
<v Speaker 2>green blue, kind of shiny, dusty looking metallic spots.

0:50:07.640 --> 0:50:10.640
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, forbidden glitter. It's beautiful.

0:50:12.600 --> 0:50:17.040
<v Speaker 2>Aladd insane in my sour krawt. Yeah, so there was

0:50:17.120 --> 0:50:20.800
<v Speaker 2>no visible degradation or residue at all on the aluminum

0:50:20.880 --> 0:50:24.799
<v Speaker 2>covering the sour crowd in the ceramic dish. So in

0:50:24.920 --> 0:50:28.440
<v Speaker 2>both cases we had the same variable of the electrolyte.

0:50:28.440 --> 0:50:30.800
<v Speaker 2>In both cases the foil was pressed up against something

0:50:30.880 --> 0:50:34.520
<v Speaker 2>salty and acidic. Sour krowd again is both, but it

0:50:34.640 --> 0:50:37.520
<v Speaker 2>only dissolved and eight holes in the aluminum in the

0:50:37.560 --> 0:50:40.520
<v Speaker 2>presence of the steel pan. So I think this is

0:50:40.760 --> 0:50:45.680
<v Speaker 2>further evidence that what happened to my pasta was galvanic corrosion,

0:50:45.960 --> 0:50:49.840
<v Speaker 2>not just acidic corrosion, though the acidic nature of the

0:50:49.880 --> 0:50:52.560
<v Speaker 2>tomato sauce may possibly have helped speed it up.

0:50:52.960 --> 0:50:56.400
<v Speaker 3>I love that you did an experiment, and this feels

0:50:56.480 --> 0:50:58.600
<v Speaker 3>like a cold case we're trying to get to the

0:50:58.600 --> 0:51:03.200
<v Speaker 3>bottom of. Yeah, have really really turned up some convincing

0:51:03.239 --> 0:51:04.120
<v Speaker 3>evidence right here.

0:51:04.400 --> 0:51:06.680
<v Speaker 2>Annie, I want you to be honest. This is your

0:51:06.680 --> 0:51:09.520
<v Speaker 2>sour kraut. Now, do you eat around this or do

0:51:09.560 --> 0:51:12.319
<v Speaker 2>you do you? Do you throw it out? You eat

0:51:12.320 --> 0:51:14.640
<v Speaker 2>around it? Or do you just eat the metal goop?

0:51:15.360 --> 0:51:15.440
<v Speaker 1>No?

0:51:15.560 --> 0:51:18.319
<v Speaker 3>I eat around it. Okay, I eat around it, but

0:51:18.360 --> 0:51:23.040
<v Speaker 3>if it tastes terrible, I'll try to keep going, but

0:51:23.120 --> 0:51:25.920
<v Speaker 3>I might reach a point where I'll stop. Lauren knows,

0:51:25.920 --> 0:51:29.400
<v Speaker 3>I you actually picked a great topic for me because

0:51:29.440 --> 0:51:32.879
<v Speaker 3>I do not waste food. Leftovers and how to store

0:51:32.920 --> 0:51:35.080
<v Speaker 3>them is like my lifeblood.

0:51:37.320 --> 0:51:40.240
<v Speaker 1>I also have a stray cat mentality about food, but Annie,

0:51:40.280 --> 0:51:41.719
<v Speaker 1>Annie takes it to levels.

0:51:42.160 --> 0:51:45.560
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I also hate hate to throw out food. I

0:51:45.920 --> 0:51:49.080
<v Speaker 2>have like anxiety sometimes when I have like too many

0:51:49.160 --> 0:51:51.840
<v Speaker 2>leftovers in the fridge at the same time, Like, okay,

0:51:51.840 --> 0:51:53.560
<v Speaker 2>I want to make sure we get to all these

0:51:53.600 --> 0:51:54.480
<v Speaker 2>before they go bad.

0:51:54.920 --> 0:51:57.600
<v Speaker 3>Oh, Thanksgiving is a stressful time for me, even in

0:51:57.640 --> 0:51:58.759
<v Speaker 3>terms of leftovers.

0:52:00.200 --> 0:52:03.160
<v Speaker 2>But okay, so I guess here we're obliquely addressing the

0:52:03.200 --> 0:52:06.719
<v Speaker 2>actual question of food safety. Food that has had a

0:52:06.719 --> 0:52:10.960
<v Speaker 2>bunch of aluminium ions dissolved into it, is it safe

0:52:11.040 --> 0:52:14.160
<v Speaker 2>to eat. I want to preface this by saying I

0:52:14.200 --> 0:52:18.440
<v Speaker 2>am not a food safety expert, and I don't want

0:52:18.440 --> 0:52:21.000
<v Speaker 2>to be taken as giving food safety advice. So the

0:52:21.080 --> 0:52:22.920
<v Speaker 2>last thing in the world is I want somebody to

0:52:22.960 --> 0:52:25.800
<v Speaker 2>eat something that they're iffy about because I said it's okay.

0:52:25.920 --> 0:52:29.399
<v Speaker 1>Oh yeah, yeah. So none of us here are medical professionals.

0:52:29.520 --> 0:52:29.920
<v Speaker 3>Nope.

0:52:30.440 --> 0:52:32.279
<v Speaker 1>Essentially, don't listen to anything that we say.

0:52:32.560 --> 0:52:35.000
<v Speaker 2>Well, okay, I'll tell you what I've read.

0:52:35.280 --> 0:52:36.000
<v Speaker 1>Okay.

0:52:36.160 --> 0:52:40.680
<v Speaker 2>So, aluminium hydroxide is generally considered safe to consume in

0:52:40.760 --> 0:52:45.320
<v Speaker 2>small quantities, at least by like the FDA. Aluminium hydroxide

0:52:45.640 --> 0:52:49.600
<v Speaker 2>is present in other common foods and drugs. For example,

0:52:50.000 --> 0:52:54.520
<v Speaker 2>it's present in your stomach whenever you take antacids like maylocks.

0:52:54.920 --> 0:52:59.160
<v Speaker 2>There's the old brand name of this antacid that maylox

0:52:59.239 --> 0:53:02.680
<v Speaker 2>starts with, like mal. I think the MA is for

0:53:02.960 --> 0:53:06.000
<v Speaker 2>magnesium and the al is for aluminum because it had

0:53:06.040 --> 0:53:09.319
<v Speaker 2>magnesium and aluminum in it and that was supposed to

0:53:09.320 --> 0:53:12.800
<v Speaker 2>help counteract you know, the hydrochloric acid in your stomach

0:53:12.840 --> 0:53:16.960
<v Speaker 2>and settle the stomach. So you know, there are other cases.

0:53:17.320 --> 0:53:19.520
<v Speaker 1>Sorry what I never knew that. That's great?

0:53:19.880 --> 0:53:25.000
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, So like, yeah, aluminium hydroxide. Again, I'm not an expert,

0:53:25.280 --> 0:53:29.040
<v Speaker 2>but it generally seems like authorities say that it's nothing

0:53:29.120 --> 0:53:30.719
<v Speaker 2>much to worry about it. I mean, anything could be

0:53:30.760 --> 0:53:34.680
<v Speaker 2>poisonous in huge quantities, but in small quantities it's not

0:53:34.760 --> 0:53:39.560
<v Speaker 2>a major concern. However, there are other aluminium ions and

0:53:39.840 --> 0:53:43.200
<v Speaker 2>aluminum salts that I don't know. It seem like maybe

0:53:43.200 --> 0:53:45.759
<v Speaker 2>not a good idea to consume, like aluminum chloride. I

0:53:45.800 --> 0:53:49.560
<v Speaker 2>could not find anything saying this is generally considered food

0:53:49.600 --> 0:53:52.640
<v Speaker 2>safe in any significant quantities, and it seems to me

0:53:52.800 --> 0:53:56.560
<v Speaker 2>like that compound might be present in these ion slime

0:53:56.600 --> 0:53:59.640
<v Speaker 2>pools in quantity is greater than you would want to consume.

0:54:00.200 --> 0:54:02.840
<v Speaker 2>So again hard for me to say. I'm not an expert,

0:54:03.120 --> 0:54:05.319
<v Speaker 2>I would personally just still err on the side of

0:54:05.320 --> 0:54:08.120
<v Speaker 2>not eating that stuff out of an abundance of caution,

0:54:08.280 --> 0:54:11.359
<v Speaker 2>especially since it's gross anyway, unless you're in a kind

0:54:11.400 --> 0:54:14.319
<v Speaker 2>of life raft survival situation, why would you need to

0:54:14.400 --> 0:54:16.440
<v Speaker 2>eat the metallic Milt movie pool.

0:54:18.760 --> 0:54:21.120
<v Speaker 1>And I will put in here that when if you're

0:54:21.160 --> 0:54:24.439
<v Speaker 1>cooking with an aluminum pan and you get a little

0:54:24.440 --> 0:54:28.680
<v Speaker 1>bit of that leeching effect over time, over years of use,

0:54:29.760 --> 0:54:34.560
<v Speaker 1>that the danger there isn't the aluminum so much as

0:54:34.800 --> 0:54:38.480
<v Speaker 1>other metals impurities that could be in the pan, as

0:54:39.120 --> 0:54:43.560
<v Speaker 1>can frequently happen with very inexpensive cookwaar unfortunately, And so

0:54:43.680 --> 0:54:47.560
<v Speaker 1>that's more the long term concern about using that kind

0:54:47.560 --> 0:54:49.560
<v Speaker 1>of cookwaar, not the aluminum itself.

0:54:50.440 --> 0:54:52.640
<v Speaker 2>So as far as the food safety authorities go, I

0:54:52.640 --> 0:54:55.719
<v Speaker 2>think the corrosion of aluminium into food is not considered

0:54:55.760 --> 0:55:00.719
<v Speaker 2>like a huge cause for concern. But again, like I

0:55:00.760 --> 0:55:02.319
<v Speaker 2>don't know, I mean, do you do you really have

0:55:02.400 --> 0:55:05.080
<v Speaker 2>to eat that? Like I would avoid it?

0:55:05.960 --> 0:55:08.000
<v Speaker 1>Annie is like, no, I'm morally obligated.

0:55:11.120 --> 0:55:13.960
<v Speaker 3>I'm struggling. I'm struggling to get on board with this,

0:55:14.080 --> 0:55:15.680
<v Speaker 3>but you're correct. I think that's the.

0:55:15.680 --> 0:55:18.640
<v Speaker 2>Way to go well, I'm not trying to tell other

0:55:18.640 --> 0:55:22.240
<v Speaker 2>people what to do. I'm just speaking for myself. However,

0:55:22.280 --> 0:55:24.879
<v Speaker 2>what I think where I can give advice, I think

0:55:25.320 --> 0:55:27.680
<v Speaker 2>is if you want to avoid having this problem in

0:55:27.719 --> 0:55:30.799
<v Speaker 2>the first place and not create a lasagnia sell what

0:55:30.880 --> 0:55:33.880
<v Speaker 2>are some ways around it. First of all, you could

0:55:34.160 --> 0:55:38.440
<v Speaker 2>avoid the combination of different metals surrounding your food, so

0:55:38.520 --> 0:55:41.840
<v Speaker 2>you can bake in like glass, ceramic or stoneware dishes.

0:55:43.760 --> 0:55:46.000
<v Speaker 2>If you do have to use a metal baking dish,

0:55:46.040 --> 0:55:48.879
<v Speaker 2>if you're baking in a steel pan or whatever, you

0:55:48.920 --> 0:55:52.359
<v Speaker 2>could not cover it in aluminum foil. Or if you

0:55:52.480 --> 0:55:56.240
<v Speaker 2>must use a metal baking pan or metal storage container

0:55:56.440 --> 0:55:59.359
<v Speaker 2>and cover it in foil, you just need to make

0:55:59.400 --> 0:56:03.040
<v Speaker 2>sure that the oil is not touching the food. So

0:56:03.080 --> 0:56:05.040
<v Speaker 2>if you do those things that they can pretty well

0:56:05.040 --> 0:56:08.319
<v Speaker 2>avoid turning your food into a simple battery cell, and

0:56:08.680 --> 0:56:13.279
<v Speaker 2>you can avoid having the robot melt on your cheese.

0:56:13.600 --> 0:56:17.520
<v Speaker 1>But if you need power, and you don't have any

0:56:17.560 --> 0:56:21.279
<v Speaker 1>potatoes about, but you do have a lasagna.

0:56:21.200 --> 0:56:25.719
<v Speaker 3>This is a good light small light bulb, a good

0:56:25.800 --> 0:56:26.320
<v Speaker 3>They did.

0:56:26.200 --> 0:56:30.480
<v Speaker 2>The math question how many lasagna batteries would you need

0:56:30.520 --> 0:56:31.400
<v Speaker 2>to power a city?

0:56:35.000 --> 0:56:37.280
<v Speaker 3>Listeners pools right in exactly.

0:56:37.360 --> 0:56:39.520
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, this is where we need, we need your your

0:56:39.520 --> 0:56:43.520
<v Speaker 2>nerd power contact at stuff to blow your mind dot com.

0:56:43.760 --> 0:56:48.320
<v Speaker 3>Yes, yes, well I actually have to thank you for

0:56:48.400 --> 0:56:52.959
<v Speaker 3>helping me solve a food mystery, Joe, because I had

0:56:53.120 --> 0:56:56.280
<v Speaker 3>not heard of the phenomena of blue garlic or green garlic.

0:56:56.600 --> 0:57:01.360
<v Speaker 3>Oh yeah, but I once in my food daredevil self

0:57:01.680 --> 0:57:04.560
<v Speaker 3>ate something that was lined with blue, and all of

0:57:04.600 --> 0:57:06.600
<v Speaker 3>my it shouldn't have been lined with blue, and all

0:57:06.640 --> 0:57:08.960
<v Speaker 3>of my friends constantly make fun of me about it,

0:57:09.840 --> 0:57:11.640
<v Speaker 3>And now I think I know why it happened, and

0:57:11.680 --> 0:57:13.560
<v Speaker 3>I feel incredibly vindicated.

0:57:13.920 --> 0:57:16.120
<v Speaker 2>Oh boy, this is great. So yeah, this was the

0:57:16.160 --> 0:57:17.960
<v Speaker 2>other I sort of like gave this to you as

0:57:18.360 --> 0:57:21.360
<v Speaker 2>something to look into because I've had the experience before

0:57:22.080 --> 0:57:25.520
<v Speaker 2>of food storage, of storing foods in the fridge. I

0:57:25.520 --> 0:57:28.520
<v Speaker 2>think specifically, I'm thinking of when I made like a

0:57:29.400 --> 0:57:34.080
<v Speaker 2>vacuum packed chicken breast that I put like lemon and

0:57:34.120 --> 0:57:37.560
<v Speaker 2>some herbs and some garlic in there with it, and

0:57:38.080 --> 0:57:42.800
<v Speaker 2>after some time I noticed the garlic was bright blue,

0:57:42.840 --> 0:57:46.160
<v Speaker 2>and that's odd, but it connected in my mind to

0:57:46.320 --> 0:57:50.800
<v Speaker 2>what I'd seen before some home pickling experiments that had

0:57:50.880 --> 0:57:54.280
<v Speaker 2>some blue or green garlic, and I was wondering what

0:57:54.480 --> 0:57:57.600
<v Speaker 2>is causing this reaction? What's going on here? Obviously people

0:57:57.720 --> 0:57:59.960
<v Speaker 2>might see that in wonder is that kind of thing? Say?

0:58:00.320 --> 0:58:00.520
<v Speaker 3>Eat?

0:58:01.080 --> 0:58:04.960
<v Speaker 2>I think personally, I just ate it and it was fine.

0:58:06.120 --> 0:58:08.040
<v Speaker 2>So yeah, fill me in any what's the deal?

0:58:08.920 --> 0:58:11.240
<v Speaker 3>Okay, I'm gonna give a very brief rundown of this.

0:58:12.320 --> 0:58:15.360
<v Speaker 3>It's fascinating, And Lauren please jump in when we get

0:58:15.400 --> 0:58:18.840
<v Speaker 3>to the fermentation part, because Lauren is our fermentation expert.

0:58:19.000 --> 0:58:19.320
<v Speaker 3>Over all.

0:58:19.440 --> 0:58:22.520
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I love some bacteria and yeast poop. That's what

0:58:22.640 --> 0:58:23.640
<v Speaker 1>makes the world go round.

0:58:24.000 --> 0:58:28.720
<v Speaker 3>Yes, yes, okay. So another discoloration that might give some

0:58:28.720 --> 0:58:33.240
<v Speaker 3>people pause is when garlic fermented garlic turns blue or green.

0:58:34.160 --> 0:58:36.920
<v Speaker 3>This is caused by a chemical reaction between a sulfur

0:58:36.960 --> 0:58:43.160
<v Speaker 3>containing amino acid aline and the enzyme alinase, and further

0:58:43.280 --> 0:58:48.520
<v Speaker 3>compounded by either acidic ingredients lacto fermentation are even exposure

0:58:48.520 --> 0:58:52.560
<v Speaker 3>to heat. Before slicing or cutting, these chemicals remain separated,

0:58:52.600 --> 0:58:57.240
<v Speaker 3>but once they're sliced they combine to form allison. This

0:58:57.320 --> 0:59:00.800
<v Speaker 3>reaction forms pyals, in turn, which are these rings of

0:59:00.840 --> 0:59:06.160
<v Speaker 3>carbon nitrogen. When these pyrols chain together, they form polypyrols.

0:59:06.920 --> 0:59:10.320
<v Speaker 3>Polypyrol molecules that imbue the garlic with a green are

0:59:10.360 --> 0:59:13.760
<v Speaker 3>blue hue, and it's very distinct, by the way, if

0:59:13.800 --> 0:59:17.000
<v Speaker 3>you've never seen it. If three of these molecules connect,

0:59:17.080 --> 0:59:19.120
<v Speaker 3>you get blue, while four will give you more of

0:59:19.120 --> 0:59:23.040
<v Speaker 3>a green color. The flavor pretty much remains the same

0:59:23.400 --> 0:59:27.120
<v Speaker 3>from what I read, though perhaps more assertive. I can't

0:59:27.120 --> 0:59:30.440
<v Speaker 3>really remember and when I ate, what I suspect was this.

0:59:30.920 --> 0:59:34.240
<v Speaker 3>I don't remember thinking it was strong of garlic, but

0:59:34.840 --> 0:59:37.600
<v Speaker 3>that's what I read. There really are a lot of

0:59:37.640 --> 0:59:40.520
<v Speaker 3>factors that go into this whole thing, the age and

0:59:40.640 --> 0:59:44.120
<v Speaker 3>size of the garlic, the cooking temperature, the acidity. The

0:59:44.160 --> 0:59:46.320
<v Speaker 3>older garlic is, the more time it has to build

0:59:46.400 --> 0:59:50.120
<v Speaker 3>up the chemicals needed for this reaction, and the acid

0:59:50.200 --> 0:59:53.320
<v Speaker 3>helps break down the cellular walls of the garlic and

0:59:53.360 --> 0:59:56.880
<v Speaker 3>speed up the whole process. Some speculate that using copper

0:59:56.960 --> 0:59:59.800
<v Speaker 3>utensils copper rich foods are even copper and plain old

1:00:00.240 --> 1:00:03.560
<v Speaker 3>water can contribute to this phenomenon, as well as other

1:00:03.600 --> 1:00:08.200
<v Speaker 3>metals or minerals like iron or aluminium. Just cooking garlic

1:00:08.240 --> 1:00:12.200
<v Speaker 3>alongside things like onion, which also contain sulfur, or something

1:00:12.240 --> 1:00:16.240
<v Speaker 3>acidic like lemon juice can turn your garlic blue. This

1:00:16.280 --> 1:00:20.520
<v Speaker 3>is so interesting to me, but yes, what about blue

1:00:20.640 --> 1:00:25.560
<v Speaker 3>or green pickled garlic. Well, during the process of lacto fermentation,

1:00:25.960 --> 1:00:30.200
<v Speaker 3>bacteria produce lactic acid. When exposed to that lactic acid,

1:00:30.240 --> 1:00:33.560
<v Speaker 3>over time, the acid interacts with the chemicals in garlic,

1:00:34.000 --> 1:00:38.240
<v Speaker 3>forms those polypyrols, and the garlic turns green or blue.

1:00:38.360 --> 1:00:39.160
<v Speaker 2>It's not a mold.

1:00:39.480 --> 1:00:42.880
<v Speaker 3>It is a normal chemical reaction that happens sometimes whether

1:00:42.960 --> 1:00:47.080
<v Speaker 3>or not the brine is highly acidic yep, perfectly safe

1:00:47.080 --> 1:00:50.680
<v Speaker 3>to eat. In some cultures and preparations, this blue or

1:00:50.720 --> 1:00:55.120
<v Speaker 3>green garlic is the desired results. For example, in northern China,

1:00:55.200 --> 1:00:58.160
<v Speaker 3>blue or green pickled garlic, called Laba garlic is a

1:00:58.200 --> 1:01:01.880
<v Speaker 3>popular accompaniment to things like dumplings, especially during the cold

1:01:01.880 --> 1:01:05.080
<v Speaker 3>season and for the Lava Festival, which takes place on

1:01:05.160 --> 1:01:09.000
<v Speaker 3>the eighth day of the twelfth lunar month. To make

1:01:09.040 --> 1:01:12.200
<v Speaker 3>this whole, peeled garlic cloves are aged in a sealed

1:01:12.200 --> 1:01:16.120
<v Speaker 3>container with vinegar, typically rice vinegar. From what I've read,

1:01:16.280 --> 1:01:19.640
<v Speaker 3>this results in a more like sweet and sour, pungent

1:01:19.800 --> 1:01:20.600
<v Speaker 3>garlic flavor.

1:01:20.920 --> 1:01:24.840
<v Speaker 2>And so the goal is intentionally to create blue or

1:01:24.880 --> 1:01:26.960
<v Speaker 2>green garlic that's like what you're going.

1:01:26.800 --> 1:01:30.680
<v Speaker 3>For yes, And actually when you and Robert came on

1:01:30.720 --> 1:01:33.760
<v Speaker 3>our Lunar New Year episode as a crossover, we talked

1:01:33.800 --> 1:01:36.200
<v Speaker 3>about how a lot of those foods are puns and

1:01:36.200 --> 1:01:39.360
<v Speaker 3>the history behind them. And this has a long history

1:01:39.400 --> 1:01:41.280
<v Speaker 3>and a pun behind it that I won't get into,

1:01:41.360 --> 1:01:43.480
<v Speaker 3>but it's kind of like counting up your money in

1:01:43.520 --> 1:01:48.120
<v Speaker 3>the green sort of being your money. Oh okay situation

1:01:49.680 --> 1:01:52.480
<v Speaker 3>If you are really opposed to your garlic taking on

1:01:52.520 --> 1:01:55.040
<v Speaker 3>a blue or green hue, though, there are a couple

1:01:55.040 --> 1:01:58.320
<v Speaker 3>of things you can do, like using younger garlic, keeping

1:01:58.320 --> 1:02:01.520
<v Speaker 3>your garlic cold until ready to cook, cooking onions and

1:02:01.560 --> 1:02:04.200
<v Speaker 3>garlic separately, and waiting for the garlic to cook down

1:02:04.240 --> 1:02:07.520
<v Speaker 3>a bit before adding acid. Some suggest blanching the garlic

1:02:07.680 --> 1:02:09.800
<v Speaker 3>and using stainless steel products too. There's a lot of

1:02:09.800 --> 1:02:12.640
<v Speaker 3>tips out there. I've never realized this was apparently a

1:02:12.640 --> 1:02:18.920
<v Speaker 3>big problem, but yes, it's safe to eat. So all

1:02:18.920 --> 1:02:22.400
<v Speaker 3>of this being said, garlic can mold with the tailtale

1:02:22.520 --> 1:02:26.080
<v Speaker 3>like fuzzy blue and black spots, at which time they

1:02:26.120 --> 1:02:28.760
<v Speaker 3>should be thrown out. Also, just to note, this is

1:02:28.800 --> 1:02:33.080
<v Speaker 3>different from purple garlic, which is an entirely separate variety,

1:02:33.240 --> 1:02:36.760
<v Speaker 3>so lots of lots of garlics out there, lots of

1:02:36.960 --> 1:02:38.160
<v Speaker 3>colors garlic can take on.

1:02:38.280 --> 1:02:41.000
<v Speaker 2>I love it, right, I think I've had purple garlic

1:02:41.040 --> 1:02:44.680
<v Speaker 2>that that's just like an inherent color in the right.

1:02:44.720 --> 1:02:45.600
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, it just grows that way.

1:02:45.840 --> 1:02:46.360
<v Speaker 2>Reaction.

1:02:47.200 --> 1:02:52.400
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, it's more assertive, is what I read researching this.

1:02:53.400 --> 1:02:56.160
<v Speaker 2>So but no reason to be scared of the garlic

1:02:56.200 --> 1:03:00.800
<v Speaker 2>that turns blue or green during storage. You're cooking, it's moldy.

1:03:01.040 --> 1:03:05.520
<v Speaker 3>Unless it's moldy, but you will. There's a clear difference

1:03:05.680 --> 1:03:08.520
<v Speaker 3>between moldy garlic and what we're talking about with this

1:03:08.560 --> 1:03:12.080
<v Speaker 3>blue and green garlic. It is a very bright hue.

1:03:12.160 --> 1:03:12.680
<v Speaker 3>It takes on.

1:03:13.280 --> 1:03:19.320
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, in the case of the reaction, not the mold. Yes, yes, well, folks,

1:03:19.360 --> 1:03:20.840
<v Speaker 2>I don't want to run you off, but we are

1:03:20.960 --> 1:03:23.480
<v Speaker 2>coming up against our time limit here. It's been so

1:03:23.600 --> 1:03:26.000
<v Speaker 2>much fun talking de y'all today. Do you want to

1:03:26.000 --> 1:03:28.200
<v Speaker 2>do another episode with men? Can we do another one?

1:03:28.480 --> 1:03:28.880
<v Speaker 1>Yeah?

1:03:29.400 --> 1:03:36.560
<v Speaker 2>More weird food science, food storage, mad science, reactions, transformations, explosions.

1:03:36.680 --> 1:03:42.720
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, yeah, I think we're in Yeah.

1:03:41.480 --> 1:03:45.480
<v Speaker 2>I can't wait. Well, Annie, Lauren, thank you so much

1:03:45.520 --> 1:03:48.680
<v Speaker 2>for joining me today. It has been a blast. And

1:03:48.880 --> 1:03:51.439
<v Speaker 2>please remind people again where they can find your work.

1:03:51.800 --> 1:03:53.240
<v Speaker 2>I know we talked about it at the top, but

1:03:53.520 --> 1:03:55.800
<v Speaker 2>let's hit them with it again. Repetition doesn't hurt.

1:03:56.120 --> 1:03:59.360
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, you can find our podcast saver anywhere you get

1:03:59.400 --> 1:04:03.600
<v Speaker 1>your podcast. We are also about to be on a

1:04:03.680 --> 1:04:06.920
<v Speaker 1>panel here in Atlanta at the PRX Podcast Creator Summit.

1:04:07.760 --> 1:04:10.600
<v Speaker 1>They asked us to come talk about food podcasting, so

1:04:11.080 --> 1:04:14.080
<v Speaker 1>we were like, sure, that's on July thirtieth. That's a

1:04:14.120 --> 1:04:18.040
<v Speaker 1>Wednesday from seven to nine pm. It is free, open

1:04:18.080 --> 1:04:20.560
<v Speaker 1>to the public, located at the Plywood, So come on

1:04:20.600 --> 1:04:22.720
<v Speaker 1>out if you're interested. They've got a bunch of other

1:04:22.960 --> 1:04:26.200
<v Speaker 1>really fascinating sounding like if you are into audio creation.

1:04:27.000 --> 1:04:30.200
<v Speaker 1>The whole thirtieth to the first is a bunch of

1:04:30.200 --> 1:04:33.360
<v Speaker 1>workshops with a bunch of really cool humans just trying

1:04:33.360 --> 1:04:37.360
<v Speaker 1>to make podcasting more accessible to everyone.

1:04:37.440 --> 1:04:41.160
<v Speaker 2>So yeah, and also, Lauren, people can find your work

1:04:41.200 --> 1:04:44.479
<v Speaker 2>on brain Stuff the podcast and any people can find

1:04:44.480 --> 1:04:47.280
<v Speaker 2>your work on stuff Mom never told you correct?

1:04:47.480 --> 1:04:47.720
<v Speaker 4>Yeah?

1:04:48.200 --> 1:04:50.040
<v Speaker 2>Anything else? Before we close out, go.

1:04:50.240 --> 1:04:51.840
<v Speaker 3>Listen to our Tomato episode.

1:04:52.000 --> 1:04:56.320
<v Speaker 2>Okay to it. That's your homework. That's your homework, listeners, Yeah,

1:04:56.760 --> 1:05:02.680
<v Speaker 2>savor Tomato redocs. Yes, okay, let's see. Hey, if you're

1:05:02.720 --> 1:05:05.520
<v Speaker 2>new to the show today. I normally co host this

1:05:05.680 --> 1:05:08.640
<v Speaker 2>with a guy named Robert Lamb. He'll be back with me,

1:05:09.040 --> 1:05:13.720
<v Speaker 2>I believe next week or maybe later this week, but generally.

1:05:13.760 --> 1:05:16.120
<v Speaker 2>Stuff to Blow Your Mind is a science and culture

1:05:16.160 --> 1:05:19.440
<v Speaker 2>podcast with core episodes that publish on Tuesdays and Thursdays

1:05:19.440 --> 1:05:22.720
<v Speaker 2>of every week. On Fridays, Rob and I usually do

1:05:23.720 --> 1:05:26.680
<v Speaker 2>a different kind of episode called Weird House Cinema, where

1:05:26.680 --> 1:05:30.120
<v Speaker 2>we just talk about weird movies. They can be good,

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<v Speaker 2>they can be bad, they can be old, they can

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<v Speaker 2>be new, they can be well known or obscure. The

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<v Speaker 2>only real criterion is they got to be weird. Let's see.

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<v Speaker 2>We also do short form episodes on Wednesdays, and then

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<v Speaker 2>on Saturdays and Mondays we run some episodes from the vault,

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<v Speaker 2>older episodes of Stuff to Blow Your Mind and Weird

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<v Speaker 2>House Cinema. If you want to find us on social media,

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<v Speaker 2>I think we're on some of those things. I don't know,

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<v Speaker 2>I'm not attached to that world, but you can definitely

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<v Speaker 2>find on like Instagram, and Weird House Cinema has a

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<v Speaker 2>profile on letterboxed dot com. That's a social kind of

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<v Speaker 2>film website that it has reviews and film lists and

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<v Speaker 2>stuff like that, I think we're just called weird house

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<v Speaker 2>on Letterbox. Huge thanks, of course too, Annie Reese and

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<v Speaker 2>Lauren Vogelbaum for joining me today, And huge thanks as

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<v Speaker 2>always to our excellent audio producer, Jjpozway. If you would

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<v Speaker 2>like to get in touch with us with feedback on

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<v Speaker 2>this episode or an together to suggest a topic for

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<v Speaker 2>the future, to tell us how many lasagna batteries it's

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<v Speaker 2>going to take to power a city, or anything else,

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<v Speaker 2>you can email us at contact at stuff to Blow

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<v Speaker 2>your Mind dot com.

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<v Speaker 1>Stuff to Blow Your Mind is production of iHeartRadio. For

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<v Speaker 1>more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,

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<v Speaker 1>or wherever you're listening to your favorite shows.