1 00:00:01,840 --> 00:00:04,760 Speaker 1: Welcome to the Wired to Hunt podcast, your guide to 2 00:00:04,800 --> 00:00:08,360 Speaker 1: the white Tail Woods, presented by first Light, creating proven 3 00:00:08,560 --> 00:00:12,440 Speaker 1: versatile hunting apparel for the stand saddler blind, First Light, 4 00:00:12,680 --> 00:00:17,239 Speaker 1: Go Farther, Stay Longer, and now your host, Mark Kenyon. 5 00:00:18,000 --> 00:00:21,360 Speaker 1: Welcome to the Wired to Hunt Podcast. I'm your host, 6 00:00:21,400 --> 00:00:23,680 Speaker 1: Mark Kenyon, and this week on the show, I'm joined 7 00:00:23,720 --> 00:00:26,520 Speaker 1: by Kip Adams to discuss the current state of white 8 00:00:26,520 --> 00:00:29,280 Speaker 1: tails and the opportunities we have to create a better 9 00:00:29,320 --> 00:00:42,880 Speaker 1: future for deer and deer hunting. All right, welcome back 10 00:00:42,920 --> 00:00:45,520 Speaker 1: to the Wired to Hunt podcast, brought to you by 11 00:00:45,640 --> 00:00:50,160 Speaker 1: First Light. Today we are walking into week two of 12 00:00:50,159 --> 00:00:54,360 Speaker 1: our Conservation Month series, and as I just mentioned, we're 13 00:00:54,400 --> 00:00:57,880 Speaker 1: joined by Kip Adams and this week's show is a 14 00:00:57,960 --> 00:01:01,400 Speaker 1: really nice I guess zoom in from where we started 15 00:01:01,480 --> 00:01:03,440 Speaker 1: last week. If you remember last week we talked with 16 00:01:03,520 --> 00:01:07,399 Speaker 1: Doug Chadwick and got this thirty thousand foot overview of 17 00:01:07,920 --> 00:01:11,640 Speaker 1: kind of the state of wildlife across the world. How 18 00:01:11,680 --> 00:01:15,840 Speaker 1: do we stand, where are things going? What caused for 19 00:01:15,920 --> 00:01:19,240 Speaker 1: concern is there? Where do we see hope? What kind 20 00:01:19,240 --> 00:01:21,000 Speaker 1: of action can we take to make sure there are 21 00:01:21,040 --> 00:01:25,040 Speaker 1: wild critters all across this world? And now today we're 22 00:01:25,080 --> 00:01:29,959 Speaker 1: going to zoom in to America and one specific species, 23 00:01:30,400 --> 00:01:33,319 Speaker 1: white tailed deer. I think anyone listening to this podcast 24 00:01:33,319 --> 00:01:35,840 Speaker 1: would probably rank white tails right at the top of 25 00:01:35,840 --> 00:01:39,040 Speaker 1: their list of favorite critters, and I think that's going 26 00:01:39,080 --> 00:01:42,720 Speaker 1: to make today's episode particularly interesting to a lot of you. 27 00:01:43,360 --> 00:01:45,839 Speaker 1: Our guest, Kip Adams, as I mentioned, is the chief 28 00:01:45,880 --> 00:01:51,080 Speaker 1: conservation officer for the National Deer Association, and what we're 29 00:01:51,120 --> 00:01:56,680 Speaker 1: doing today is using the twenty twenty three Deer Report 30 00:01:56,720 --> 00:02:00,520 Speaker 1: and this document that the National Deer Association it's together 31 00:02:00,560 --> 00:02:03,480 Speaker 1: every year. We're going to use that as a tool 32 00:02:03,880 --> 00:02:07,560 Speaker 1: to explore the current state of white tails across the country. 33 00:02:08,120 --> 00:02:11,160 Speaker 1: Where things stand with a herd. What kind of trends 34 00:02:11,200 --> 00:02:15,120 Speaker 1: are we seeing in the harvest data, in the information 35 00:02:15,160 --> 00:02:18,600 Speaker 1: that state game and fish agencies are sharing, What kinds 36 00:02:18,600 --> 00:02:21,800 Speaker 1: of changes are we seeing, what's looking good, what's looking 37 00:02:21,880 --> 00:02:23,519 Speaker 1: not so good? What do we need to work on? 38 00:02:23,880 --> 00:02:27,200 Speaker 1: What can we be doing to continue what in many 39 00:02:27,280 --> 00:02:31,000 Speaker 1: ways are the golden years of deer hunting in this country. 40 00:02:31,440 --> 00:02:33,600 Speaker 1: We cover a lot of stuff like that. We explore 41 00:02:33,639 --> 00:02:37,080 Speaker 1: some really interesting trends that we're seeing, some maybe surprising 42 00:02:37,160 --> 00:02:40,239 Speaker 1: data points that Kip and his team have pulled out, 43 00:02:40,880 --> 00:02:43,840 Speaker 1: and we also talk through some action, some things that 44 00:02:43,880 --> 00:02:48,040 Speaker 1: we as deer hunters and managers can do tangibly to 45 00:02:48,160 --> 00:02:50,400 Speaker 1: make things better or to change the story or to 46 00:02:50,480 --> 00:02:54,960 Speaker 1: keep the good times going. We cover everything from current 47 00:02:55,000 --> 00:02:59,480 Speaker 1: trends with buck age structure. We talk about antler lists 48 00:02:59,480 --> 00:03:02,640 Speaker 1: and their buck harvest numbers, where things are looking there. 49 00:03:03,160 --> 00:03:08,160 Speaker 1: We talk through some really interesting things around how and 50 00:03:08,240 --> 00:03:11,320 Speaker 1: why and when we should be targeting at loveless deer 51 00:03:11,639 --> 00:03:14,240 Speaker 1: and why that's important to maintaining good deer hunting and 52 00:03:14,280 --> 00:03:18,200 Speaker 1: a healthy herd and healthy balance with our habitat out there. 53 00:03:19,040 --> 00:03:23,440 Speaker 1: We dive into some policy, some legislation that's particularly important. 54 00:03:23,480 --> 00:03:27,040 Speaker 1: We talk about the importance of private land conservation, especially 55 00:03:27,080 --> 00:03:30,280 Speaker 1: for deer and deer hunting, and the opportunity that provides 56 00:03:30,280 --> 00:03:33,240 Speaker 1: a lot of us. We do spend some time talking 57 00:03:33,280 --> 00:03:36,040 Speaker 1: about CWD, which is not necessarily a fun thing to 58 00:03:36,040 --> 00:03:38,720 Speaker 1: talk about, but we took advantage today to kind of 59 00:03:38,800 --> 00:03:41,280 Speaker 1: level set to see, Okay, this has been a thing 60 00:03:41,280 --> 00:03:45,160 Speaker 1: we've been talking about a long time. Where are we today? 61 00:03:45,680 --> 00:03:50,200 Speaker 1: What's real? What's you know, what's the data show us today? 62 00:03:50,320 --> 00:03:53,200 Speaker 1: What's working, what's not working? What can we really do. 63 00:03:53,320 --> 00:03:55,840 Speaker 1: Moving forward, we get a new sense of all that 64 00:03:56,240 --> 00:03:59,280 Speaker 1: and man, that's just scratching the surface. There's a whole 65 00:03:59,280 --> 00:04:02,960 Speaker 1: lot covered today. I think that I know that every 66 00:04:02,960 --> 00:04:05,960 Speaker 1: one of you listening is a deer hunter, interested in 67 00:04:05,960 --> 00:04:08,680 Speaker 1: white tailed deer in the future, wanting to make sure 68 00:04:08,720 --> 00:04:13,040 Speaker 1: we've got these creatures to hunt, to watch, to chase, 69 00:04:13,160 --> 00:04:16,880 Speaker 1: to study, to introduce your kids too, or your friends too. 70 00:04:17,040 --> 00:04:19,160 Speaker 1: I know this stuff matters to you, and I know 71 00:04:20,480 --> 00:04:23,080 Speaker 1: that I think you'll be able to find some ideas 72 00:04:23,120 --> 00:04:25,719 Speaker 1: here today that you can take action on to make 73 00:04:25,760 --> 00:04:30,279 Speaker 1: sure this stuff lasts long, long into the future. So 74 00:04:31,000 --> 00:04:33,880 Speaker 1: that's the plan. That's what we're going to discuss. I 75 00:04:33,920 --> 00:04:38,440 Speaker 1: will give you one more quick PSA, which is just 76 00:04:38,480 --> 00:04:40,480 Speaker 1: an update on what I've been sharing with you over 77 00:04:40,480 --> 00:04:42,919 Speaker 1: the last couple of weeks, which is the latest on 78 00:04:43,000 --> 00:04:46,240 Speaker 1: the Working for Wildlife Tour. This is a series of 79 00:04:46,320 --> 00:04:51,040 Speaker 1: volunteer events that we are hosting and participating in in 80 00:04:51,120 --> 00:04:54,200 Speaker 1: collaboration with a bunch of different conservation organizations where we're 81 00:04:54,440 --> 00:04:57,160 Speaker 1: heading out to public land across the country and doing 82 00:04:57,200 --> 00:05:01,120 Speaker 1: some good work. We are picking up trash, make habitat improvements, 83 00:05:01,520 --> 00:05:03,960 Speaker 1: doing different stuff like that. I told you last week 84 00:05:04,000 --> 00:05:07,440 Speaker 1: about the first event, and our second event is coming 85 00:05:07,520 --> 00:05:09,960 Speaker 1: up in just over a week, so I just want 86 00:05:09,960 --> 00:05:13,240 Speaker 1: to give you another reminder. That is April twenty second, 87 00:05:13,800 --> 00:05:17,960 Speaker 1: Earth Day up in Calcaska, Michigan, in partnership with the 88 00:05:18,160 --> 00:05:22,640 Speaker 1: MUCC that's Michigan United Conservation Clubs. We're gonna be building 89 00:05:22,680 --> 00:05:26,320 Speaker 1: small game habitat, brush piles, some other habitat stuff that's 90 00:05:26,320 --> 00:05:29,080 Speaker 1: gonna be great for all sorts of creatures, including deer 91 00:05:29,480 --> 00:05:32,279 Speaker 1: of course, and we're gonna have a good time. So 92 00:05:32,600 --> 00:05:35,000 Speaker 1: I hope to see you there on Earth Day. If 93 00:05:35,040 --> 00:05:36,640 Speaker 1: you can't make it, or if you live in the 94 00:05:36,680 --> 00:05:39,320 Speaker 1: other part of the country, man, don't let that stop you. 95 00:05:39,480 --> 00:05:41,480 Speaker 1: Get out there on some public lan by your house 96 00:05:41,720 --> 00:05:45,000 Speaker 1: or your own dear property, or just your backyard and 97 00:05:45,240 --> 00:05:48,400 Speaker 1: planet tree, pick up some trash, get out there with 98 00:05:48,480 --> 00:05:51,120 Speaker 1: some buddies, do a little something. I can promise you 99 00:05:51,240 --> 00:05:54,920 Speaker 1: it does help and it's a good time. So that's 100 00:05:54,920 --> 00:05:58,280 Speaker 1: it for me. Let's get into my chat with Kip 101 00:05:58,279 --> 00:06:01,479 Speaker 1: Adams as we dive into the state of white tails 102 00:06:01,560 --> 00:06:06,080 Speaker 1: across the country. All right here with me now for 103 00:06:06,200 --> 00:06:08,560 Speaker 1: what I don't know, Maybe it's the tenth or eleventh, 104 00:06:08,680 --> 00:06:10,599 Speaker 1: twelfth time. I'm not sure what it is, Kip, but 105 00:06:10,640 --> 00:06:13,800 Speaker 1: we've got a Kip Adams back on the show. Thank you, 106 00:06:13,880 --> 00:06:16,240 Speaker 1: Kip for being so generous with your time over all 107 00:06:16,240 --> 00:06:20,840 Speaker 1: these years. Absolutely Mark my pleasure. And yeah, it's hard 108 00:06:20,839 --> 00:06:22,920 Speaker 1: to believe we've had this many dear reports to talk 109 00:06:22,920 --> 00:06:27,000 Speaker 1: about here, but good information just keeps on coming. Yeah. 110 00:06:26,720 --> 00:06:31,160 Speaker 1: I just passed ten years of doing this podcast, which 111 00:06:31,360 --> 00:06:33,560 Speaker 1: blows my mind. I don't know where the time went, 112 00:06:33,880 --> 00:06:37,479 Speaker 1: but uh, it's it's gone fast. So you and I 113 00:06:37,560 --> 00:06:42,880 Speaker 1: both were getting up there, Kip. Yeah, that's not I 114 00:06:42,960 --> 00:06:44,560 Speaker 1: got a good way to start this at all. Mark. 115 00:06:44,720 --> 00:06:46,960 Speaker 1: Usually we have a we have a great conversation, but 116 00:06:47,520 --> 00:06:51,560 Speaker 1: it's certainly we have We've got to talk about a 117 00:06:51,640 --> 00:06:53,760 Speaker 1: lot of deer stuff over the years, and it is 118 00:06:54,600 --> 00:06:56,880 Speaker 1: crazy to think how long we've both been in the 119 00:06:56,920 --> 00:06:59,479 Speaker 1: dear world and you know, and things we've been doing. 120 00:06:59,560 --> 00:07:03,000 Speaker 1: So I agree, time has certainly gone fast. And you know, 121 00:07:03,040 --> 00:07:04,960 Speaker 1: I think it's because we both enjoy what we do 122 00:07:05,000 --> 00:07:08,000 Speaker 1: so much. That's true. Certainly doesn't drag doesn't feel like 123 00:07:08,040 --> 00:07:10,640 Speaker 1: a job where we're both very fortunate. Yeah, that is 124 00:07:10,840 --> 00:07:12,640 Speaker 1: that is the truth. It's a good problem to have 125 00:07:13,000 --> 00:07:15,760 Speaker 1: when it seems to fly by, so I can't I 126 00:07:15,800 --> 00:07:20,400 Speaker 1: can't complain, Um. But as you know, Kip, we've done 127 00:07:20,440 --> 00:07:23,240 Speaker 1: these almost every year for I'm not sure if it's 128 00:07:23,240 --> 00:07:25,760 Speaker 1: been ever one of those years that the podcasts have 129 00:07:25,840 --> 00:07:28,600 Speaker 1: been around, but if not, it's really close. So the 130 00:07:28,640 --> 00:07:31,720 Speaker 1: audience probably knows what to expect here, but just in 131 00:07:31,760 --> 00:07:34,680 Speaker 1: case they don't, you know, my hope is to of 132 00:07:34,720 --> 00:07:38,840 Speaker 1: course review your latest edition of the Deer Report, Um, 133 00:07:39,120 --> 00:07:41,320 Speaker 1: and some of the highlights, some of the trends, some 134 00:07:41,360 --> 00:07:44,160 Speaker 1: of the things that you're particularly interested in. But then 135 00:07:44,200 --> 00:07:47,800 Speaker 1: also I think hopefully leave folks with a better understanding 136 00:07:47,800 --> 00:07:50,640 Speaker 1: of just where do we stand right now when it 137 00:07:50,640 --> 00:07:56,000 Speaker 1: comes to deer and deer hunting and habitat and all 138 00:07:56,040 --> 00:07:59,560 Speaker 1: those different factors that impact this pursuit and lifestyle that 139 00:07:59,560 --> 00:08:01,480 Speaker 1: we love so much in the in the resource that 140 00:08:01,720 --> 00:08:06,000 Speaker 1: makes all that possible. So that being said, Kip, if 141 00:08:06,040 --> 00:08:09,640 Speaker 1: I can toss you into the deep end right out 142 00:08:09,680 --> 00:08:13,840 Speaker 1: the gay forgive me, um. But let's imagine you were 143 00:08:13,840 --> 00:08:18,680 Speaker 1: a doctor, okay, like a medical doctor, and deer and 144 00:08:18,680 --> 00:08:22,480 Speaker 1: deer hunting as a combination. I guess we'll talk to 145 00:08:22,640 --> 00:08:25,960 Speaker 1: the animals and the life style and the habitat necessary 146 00:08:25,960 --> 00:08:27,840 Speaker 1: if that was your patient, If you were the doctor 147 00:08:28,360 --> 00:08:30,960 Speaker 1: and deer and deer hunting is your patient, how would 148 00:08:31,000 --> 00:08:33,880 Speaker 1: you assess its assess its general health today? If we 149 00:08:34,000 --> 00:08:36,360 Speaker 1: just got out of our check in for the year, 150 00:08:37,120 --> 00:08:39,160 Speaker 1: what would you tell us? How would you assess or 151 00:08:39,240 --> 00:08:42,640 Speaker 1: diagnose the current state of white tails and white tail hunting? 152 00:08:42,960 --> 00:08:44,839 Speaker 1: And if you want to expand that to general deer 153 00:08:45,200 --> 00:08:48,480 Speaker 1: that's fine too. But what's what's our standing right now? 154 00:08:49,800 --> 00:08:52,559 Speaker 1: I think it would be that the patient is in, 155 00:08:53,720 --> 00:08:57,400 Speaker 1: for the most part, really good condition. There's a lot 156 00:08:57,440 --> 00:09:00,320 Speaker 1: of very positive things. Maybe it's a professional I think, 157 00:09:00,360 --> 00:09:03,839 Speaker 1: you know, it's finally tuned, you know, well muscled, great 158 00:09:03,880 --> 00:09:07,800 Speaker 1: cardiovascular shape. But maybe it's had an injury that he 159 00:09:07,920 --> 00:09:10,400 Speaker 1: or she is dealing with that's not out of one 160 00:09:10,440 --> 00:09:13,400 Speaker 1: hundred percent. I think that's a fair assessment relative to 161 00:09:13,520 --> 00:09:16,160 Speaker 1: where deer hunting is. There's we are in the golden 162 00:09:16,200 --> 00:09:19,560 Speaker 1: age for for so many aspects of it, and I 163 00:09:19,640 --> 00:09:21,840 Speaker 1: know that we'll talk about some of those on here today. 164 00:09:21,920 --> 00:09:25,320 Speaker 1: So there's some really really good things going on in 165 00:09:25,360 --> 00:09:28,199 Speaker 1: the deer world today. Of course, it's not without as 166 00:09:28,240 --> 00:09:31,520 Speaker 1: challenge as though, so as I'm alluded to, maybe an 167 00:09:31,520 --> 00:09:34,199 Speaker 1: injury that they're getting over. It's kind of the disease 168 00:09:34,280 --> 00:09:37,040 Speaker 1: aspect of what so many hunters have to deal with today, 169 00:09:37,080 --> 00:09:40,760 Speaker 1: with the CWD first and foremost. Certainly there's some other 170 00:09:41,000 --> 00:09:44,400 Speaker 1: deer diseases, but that being the big one. So I 171 00:09:44,440 --> 00:09:46,400 Speaker 1: think I think it's very fair to say there's a 172 00:09:46,400 --> 00:09:49,720 Speaker 1: lot of really really good things going on, um, but 173 00:09:50,280 --> 00:09:52,040 Speaker 1: a little nag and injury that we have to deal 174 00:09:52,040 --> 00:09:54,480 Speaker 1: with as well. Okay, so one of the things that 175 00:09:54,840 --> 00:09:57,280 Speaker 1: you know, that's kind of my sense of things from 176 00:09:57,280 --> 00:09:59,679 Speaker 1: the outside, kind of trying to assess where we're at. 177 00:09:59,760 --> 00:10:01,520 Speaker 1: It's seems like that's the case. But one of the 178 00:10:02,320 --> 00:10:05,840 Speaker 1: I guess risks of being in that kind of situation 179 00:10:05,920 --> 00:10:09,000 Speaker 1: where things are going pretty well, where you know you're 180 00:10:09,559 --> 00:10:13,520 Speaker 1: you're on the Baltimore Ravens and you're playing well, life's good. 181 00:10:13,840 --> 00:10:15,840 Speaker 1: You've seem to be pretty high. You're riding high and 182 00:10:15,880 --> 00:10:19,640 Speaker 1: happy is that you can. It can be tempting to 183 00:10:19,720 --> 00:10:21,719 Speaker 1: let your guard down. It can be tempting to get 184 00:10:21,800 --> 00:10:24,760 Speaker 1: lazy and just kind of ride that momentum the good 185 00:10:24,840 --> 00:10:28,520 Speaker 1: let the good times keep rolling. It's tempting in those situations, 186 00:10:28,559 --> 00:10:32,520 Speaker 1: I think too. I don't know if apathy is the 187 00:10:32,600 --> 00:10:37,640 Speaker 1: right word. But when there isn't a serious, imposing threat 188 00:10:37,800 --> 00:10:41,640 Speaker 1: or a boogeyman breathing down your neck, it's easy to 189 00:10:42,240 --> 00:10:46,960 Speaker 1: not be engaged, to not be active, and so, in 190 00:10:47,920 --> 00:10:51,079 Speaker 1: stepping away from the analogy, just directly what we're dealing 191 00:10:51,080 --> 00:10:54,040 Speaker 1: with here, I worry sometimes that we deer hunters have 192 00:10:54,080 --> 00:10:56,720 Speaker 1: it so good across so much of the country and 193 00:10:56,760 --> 00:10:58,880 Speaker 1: the white tail population and have it there's a lot 194 00:10:58,920 --> 00:11:01,040 Speaker 1: of good things going on that it would be easy 195 00:11:01,080 --> 00:11:03,640 Speaker 1: to lose sight or to not be involved in trying 196 00:11:03,640 --> 00:11:06,480 Speaker 1: to perpetuate that. Do you ever think about that? Do 197 00:11:06,520 --> 00:11:08,280 Speaker 1: you ever worry about that? I mean, I know this 198 00:11:08,320 --> 00:11:10,480 Speaker 1: has been a thing that in the past there's been 199 00:11:10,559 --> 00:11:13,560 Speaker 1: conversation around It's like, man, the duck hunters are really active, 200 00:11:13,640 --> 00:11:16,600 Speaker 1: or the upland hunters are really active with their conservation 201 00:11:16,679 --> 00:11:19,600 Speaker 1: work and advocacy, because like those things have needed it, 202 00:11:20,000 --> 00:11:22,160 Speaker 1: But white tails for so long have been doing so 203 00:11:22,280 --> 00:11:27,760 Speaker 1: well that we don't always get that engagement. Is this 204 00:11:28,640 --> 00:11:31,520 Speaker 1: I'm rambling now, Kip. Are you worry about the same things? 205 00:11:31,559 --> 00:11:33,760 Speaker 1: Is that something that makes sense? Am I onto something 206 00:11:33,880 --> 00:11:38,439 Speaker 1: or am I over blowing it? No? I do think 207 00:11:38,440 --> 00:11:41,520 Speaker 1: you're onto something, And you know, I'm not somebody that's 208 00:11:41,720 --> 00:11:44,520 Speaker 1: screening the sky is fallen by any means. But I 209 00:11:44,559 --> 00:11:46,680 Speaker 1: think it's always good, you know, to keep our eye 210 00:11:46,679 --> 00:11:50,559 Speaker 1: on the prize here. You can look at waterfowl hunters today, 211 00:11:50,679 --> 00:11:52,880 Speaker 1: You could look at turkey hunters today. You don't have 212 00:11:52,880 --> 00:11:55,640 Speaker 1: to look very far to realize, holy caw. You know, 213 00:11:55,679 --> 00:11:58,079 Speaker 1: it wasn't all that long ago we were at historically 214 00:11:58,400 --> 00:12:01,160 Speaker 1: high turkey numbers and just tre just turkey hunting them. 215 00:12:01,240 --> 00:12:04,120 Speaker 1: That's not the case for a large part of that 216 00:12:04,320 --> 00:12:07,080 Speaker 1: range today. Yeah, been thin in waterfowl hunting. You know, 217 00:12:07,160 --> 00:12:09,640 Speaker 1: there's you know, there's there's a lot of work being 218 00:12:09,679 --> 00:12:12,840 Speaker 1: done on that, but suddenly it's not the Golden age anymore. 219 00:12:13,160 --> 00:12:16,160 Speaker 1: So I think what you're saying is a very fair assessment. 220 00:12:16,559 --> 00:12:20,680 Speaker 1: We are enjoying some historically good deer hunting right now, 221 00:12:21,000 --> 00:12:24,840 Speaker 1: but you know that's because hunters have been engaged so 222 00:12:24,920 --> 00:12:27,840 Speaker 1: much in the past two decades, and that today's hunters 223 00:12:27,840 --> 00:12:30,520 Speaker 1: are so much more knowledgeable about deer and wanting to 224 00:12:30,600 --> 00:12:34,400 Speaker 1: get engaged with these programs. So I think it's good 225 00:12:34,600 --> 00:12:37,280 Speaker 1: that our hunters are engaged as much as they are, 226 00:12:37,679 --> 00:12:40,200 Speaker 1: and I think it's important that they stay that way 227 00:12:40,360 --> 00:12:44,679 Speaker 1: to make sure that we continue to have great deer hunting. Yeah, 228 00:12:44,760 --> 00:12:49,360 Speaker 1: so is there anything specifically before we dive into the 229 00:12:49,440 --> 00:12:52,760 Speaker 1: report itself right out here at the top, is there 230 00:12:52,800 --> 00:12:55,840 Speaker 1: anything that you think we as a community need to 231 00:12:56,040 --> 00:12:59,839 Speaker 1: be engaging and more or really keeping an eye on 232 00:13:00,360 --> 00:13:04,280 Speaker 1: or making sure is top of our list to you know, 233 00:13:04,360 --> 00:13:07,120 Speaker 1: be ready to jump at the moment's notice, to ensure 234 00:13:07,320 --> 00:13:09,640 Speaker 1: that we don't end up in a situation like the 235 00:13:09,679 --> 00:13:12,960 Speaker 1: Turkey world has been recently or something else. How do 236 00:13:12,960 --> 00:13:15,800 Speaker 1: we make sure we keep our position in our golden years? 237 00:13:15,920 --> 00:13:18,719 Speaker 1: How do we keep that going kip and avoid this 238 00:13:19,240 --> 00:13:24,120 Speaker 1: slip back? Well, I think the single largest threat to 239 00:13:24,240 --> 00:13:26,560 Speaker 1: the future of what we have right now from a 240 00:13:26,600 --> 00:13:30,960 Speaker 1: deer hunting world is chronic waste and disease continues to spread, 241 00:13:31,040 --> 00:13:33,880 Speaker 1: continues to infect more deer herbs. So I think that 242 00:13:34,000 --> 00:13:37,080 Speaker 1: is where hunters need to stay in tune, need to 243 00:13:37,120 --> 00:13:39,320 Speaker 1: do what they can to to limit the spread of that. 244 00:13:39,679 --> 00:13:42,080 Speaker 1: As of right now, we can't stop it, but we 245 00:13:42,200 --> 00:13:45,000 Speaker 1: don't sure can limit where it is. And there's something 246 00:13:45,040 --> 00:13:47,520 Speaker 1: that every single hunter can engage in that fight, And 247 00:13:47,840 --> 00:13:50,240 Speaker 1: then you know, that's not a fun thing to talk about. 248 00:13:50,320 --> 00:13:52,520 Speaker 1: And so because of that, a lot of hunters don't, 249 00:13:53,200 --> 00:13:56,240 Speaker 1: but we try to take the tack that, hey, this 250 00:13:56,320 --> 00:13:58,920 Speaker 1: is not a good thing for sure. However, there is 251 00:13:58,960 --> 00:14:01,120 Speaker 1: something that every hundred can do every day that he 252 00:14:01,240 --> 00:14:03,520 Speaker 1: or she goes to the woods to help this. So 253 00:14:03,800 --> 00:14:06,240 Speaker 1: I think that's an important message for hunters to hear 254 00:14:06,320 --> 00:14:09,280 Speaker 1: and to realize, and the more hunters that do help 255 00:14:09,280 --> 00:14:11,800 Speaker 1: with that, the better job we can do. Keeping the 256 00:14:11,880 --> 00:14:15,000 Speaker 1: disease word is right now, you know, and getting science 257 00:14:15,000 --> 00:14:17,200 Speaker 1: of time to catch up and figure out a way 258 00:14:17,280 --> 00:14:22,120 Speaker 1: to defeat. So since we're since this, since you brought 259 00:14:22,120 --> 00:14:25,360 Speaker 1: it up, let's drill into the CWD side of things 260 00:14:25,360 --> 00:14:30,080 Speaker 1: a little bit, because you're right like it is. It's 261 00:14:30,120 --> 00:14:31,920 Speaker 1: one of those topics where I think there has been 262 00:14:31,920 --> 00:14:38,120 Speaker 1: some real issue fatigue. I think folks have gotten, for 263 00:14:38,200 --> 00:14:41,040 Speaker 1: better or worse, tired of hearing about CWD, or they 264 00:14:41,120 --> 00:14:45,200 Speaker 1: have felt like, well, everyone made a huge hullabaloo about 265 00:14:45,240 --> 00:14:47,840 Speaker 1: it so many years ago, but you know, it pops 266 00:14:47,880 --> 00:14:49,840 Speaker 1: up here and there, but it's really not impacting media. 267 00:14:50,000 --> 00:14:53,000 Speaker 1: It's not really taking anything that I'm seeing yet, And 268 00:14:53,040 --> 00:14:56,960 Speaker 1: so I think there's this continued perception that it's it's 269 00:14:57,040 --> 00:14:59,920 Speaker 1: not looming or it's not what it was thought to be, 270 00:15:00,760 --> 00:15:04,440 Speaker 1: or that I don't know, just hear this kind of 271 00:15:04,480 --> 00:15:08,600 Speaker 1: sentiment simmering still as CW just becomes more and more prevalent, 272 00:15:08,880 --> 00:15:10,720 Speaker 1: and there's almost maybe when I'm getting at here, has 273 00:15:10,720 --> 00:15:13,800 Speaker 1: there's been like a shifting baseline where a long time 274 00:15:13,840 --> 00:15:16,440 Speaker 1: ago and c to CWD first popped up, it was like, 275 00:15:16,440 --> 00:15:19,000 Speaker 1: oh man, this is this is this is new? What 276 00:15:19,040 --> 00:15:22,080 Speaker 1: do we do? But now it's almost becoming baked into 277 00:15:22,480 --> 00:15:24,840 Speaker 1: the culture, like we all know about it. It's there 278 00:15:25,440 --> 00:15:30,880 Speaker 1: and it's kind of silently there. What's your read on 279 00:15:30,920 --> 00:15:35,440 Speaker 1: where we are now, Kip with the CWD situation, and 280 00:15:35,720 --> 00:15:38,920 Speaker 1: do you feel like on the research side, with new 281 00:15:38,960 --> 00:15:43,240 Speaker 1: things we've learned, or what's the progress towards some kind 282 00:15:43,280 --> 00:15:45,280 Speaker 1: of solution. Is it just feels like we've been treading 283 00:15:45,280 --> 00:15:46,880 Speaker 1: water for a long time? Am I right on that? 284 00:15:47,280 --> 00:15:50,040 Speaker 1: What's your read? I think you're right, yeah, we we 285 00:15:50,120 --> 00:15:52,200 Speaker 1: have been treading water, or at least it feels like, 286 00:15:52,240 --> 00:15:54,520 Speaker 1: you know, there's no good news about it because everything 287 00:15:54,520 --> 00:15:57,560 Speaker 1: we're here is so dire, and I think that there 288 00:15:57,760 --> 00:16:00,360 Speaker 1: is some good news relative to some success, is that 289 00:16:00,440 --> 00:16:03,360 Speaker 1: the researchers showed us so you know, for example, we 290 00:16:03,480 --> 00:16:06,040 Speaker 1: have better ways to test for today in the landscape 291 00:16:06,120 --> 00:16:08,720 Speaker 1: than in the past. UM. We have ways that we 292 00:16:08,760 --> 00:16:11,160 Speaker 1: can go out and identify without having to have a 293 00:16:11,240 --> 00:16:14,400 Speaker 1: dead deer you know that's either shot during hunting season 294 00:16:14,560 --> 00:16:17,000 Speaker 1: or as part of a targeted removal or are killed 295 00:16:17,000 --> 00:16:19,840 Speaker 1: in the road. That's a huge advancement that we can 296 00:16:19,840 --> 00:16:22,520 Speaker 1: now start to find new errors where this is. We 297 00:16:22,560 --> 00:16:26,920 Speaker 1: are continue to reduce the amount of time that it 298 00:16:27,000 --> 00:16:29,800 Speaker 1: takes to get a sample back to a hunter, you know, 299 00:16:29,800 --> 00:16:32,600 Speaker 1: if they harvest the deer, to go until they find 300 00:16:32,640 --> 00:16:35,000 Speaker 1: out whether the deer had the disease or not. So, 301 00:16:35,400 --> 00:16:38,440 Speaker 1: you know, those are those are things that are definitely 302 00:16:38,440 --> 00:16:41,840 Speaker 1: bright spots in the fight against the disease UM. You know, 303 00:16:42,000 --> 00:16:45,800 Speaker 1: there's there's legislation now that that's helping states, you know, 304 00:16:46,280 --> 00:16:50,120 Speaker 1: monetarily battle this disease so UM for a long time, 305 00:16:50,160 --> 00:16:52,720 Speaker 1: there just wasn't any good news at all, and we're 306 00:16:52,720 --> 00:16:55,480 Speaker 1: starting to see some some victories with that now. What 307 00:16:56,200 --> 00:16:59,000 Speaker 1: the disease is still one hundred percent fail all the deer, 308 00:16:59,400 --> 00:17:02,240 Speaker 1: but least we're starting to figure out ways to do 309 00:17:02,280 --> 00:17:06,840 Speaker 1: a better job with surveillance and with monitoring and given 310 00:17:06,920 --> 00:17:09,160 Speaker 1: hunters some other things, you know, that can help them 311 00:17:09,560 --> 00:17:11,760 Speaker 1: or at least help this be less of an inconvenience 312 00:17:11,760 --> 00:17:14,639 Speaker 1: for them. So I think those are all good things, 313 00:17:14,680 --> 00:17:17,480 Speaker 1: and I'm hopeful that that's, you know, just on the 314 00:17:17,560 --> 00:17:20,680 Speaker 1: cusp of more things to come that will help hunters. 315 00:17:20,760 --> 00:17:24,720 Speaker 1: So I'm an optimist, you know. I firmly believe that 316 00:17:24,760 --> 00:17:27,560 Speaker 1: we are going to beat this someday. So I want 317 00:17:27,560 --> 00:17:29,679 Speaker 1: to do everything in my power to make sure that 318 00:17:29,720 --> 00:17:32,040 Speaker 1: when we figure out how to beat it, it's in 319 00:17:32,200 --> 00:17:35,800 Speaker 1: as few places as possible, so that weekend eradicated as 320 00:17:35,880 --> 00:17:37,840 Speaker 1: quickly as possible. I don't I don't want to see 321 00:17:37,840 --> 00:17:40,000 Speaker 1: this in every county that has white tails and mule 322 00:17:40,040 --> 00:17:42,240 Speaker 1: deer and elk and just make it that much harder 323 00:17:42,240 --> 00:17:47,200 Speaker 1: to battle. Yeah, I don't know how deep you've gone 324 00:17:47,200 --> 00:17:49,199 Speaker 1: into this side of things, Kip, so if this is 325 00:17:49,280 --> 00:17:53,200 Speaker 1: beyond your purview, don't feel bad telling me that. But 326 00:17:53,240 --> 00:17:56,000 Speaker 1: have we you know, we've been I can't remember what 327 00:17:56,040 --> 00:17:58,439 Speaker 1: the year was that CWD first popped up down there 328 00:17:58,440 --> 00:18:01,040 Speaker 1: in southwest Wisconsin, but it's been a good number of 329 00:18:01,119 --> 00:18:03,080 Speaker 1: years and that feels like maybe twenty years or something 330 00:18:03,119 --> 00:18:05,800 Speaker 1: like that. Now where we've been, you know, actively as 331 00:18:05,800 --> 00:18:08,600 Speaker 1: a deer hunting community talking about it, trying to deal 332 00:18:08,600 --> 00:18:10,600 Speaker 1: with it, trying to adapt to it, trying to mitigate 333 00:18:10,720 --> 00:18:16,200 Speaker 1: what's happening. Do you feel like we're making progress in that? 334 00:18:17,600 --> 00:18:20,120 Speaker 1: What's the word I'm looking for here in dealing with it? 335 00:18:20,520 --> 00:18:23,600 Speaker 1: Have we are we getting better at slowing the spread? 336 00:18:23,680 --> 00:18:25,840 Speaker 1: Have the things we tried in certain states led to 337 00:18:25,920 --> 00:18:28,520 Speaker 1: some best practices now that are actually working. Do you 338 00:18:28,560 --> 00:18:30,760 Speaker 1: feel like that side of things is getting better so 339 00:18:30,760 --> 00:18:33,760 Speaker 1: that now twenty years later, we are doing a better 340 00:18:33,840 --> 00:18:36,719 Speaker 1: job of slowing the spread? Has there been progress there? 341 00:18:36,760 --> 00:18:43,480 Speaker 1: Do you think? Absolutely? And you're right. There was first 342 00:18:43,480 --> 00:18:46,600 Speaker 1: confirmed in Wisconsin in two thousand and two from from 343 00:18:46,640 --> 00:18:48,880 Speaker 1: Deer that we're harvested in the fallible one. So yes, 344 00:18:48,880 --> 00:18:52,359 Speaker 1: it's been just over twenty years now. There's a lot 345 00:18:52,400 --> 00:18:55,600 Speaker 1: of wildlife professionals that they've spent their entire career, you know, 346 00:18:55,760 --> 00:18:59,600 Speaker 1: with CWD. So at that time we knew so little 347 00:18:59,600 --> 00:19:03,920 Speaker 1: about it that there wasn't much hope at all. Fast 348 00:19:03,960 --> 00:19:07,520 Speaker 1: forward to today, and yes, many states are dueing a 349 00:19:07,720 --> 00:19:10,360 Speaker 1: much better job than Wisconsin was able to do at 350 00:19:10,640 --> 00:19:14,440 Speaker 1: limiting the spread. Illinois is a perfect example. They got 351 00:19:14,480 --> 00:19:17,320 Speaker 1: they found the disease at the same time as Wisconsin 352 00:19:17,720 --> 00:19:20,840 Speaker 1: took a very different tact and at try to reduce it, 353 00:19:21,240 --> 00:19:23,919 Speaker 1: and much of those initial areas in Wisconsin today the 354 00:19:23,920 --> 00:19:26,960 Speaker 1: prevalence rate is over forty of some of those deer. 355 00:19:27,720 --> 00:19:30,720 Speaker 1: In Illinois, we're still in the single digits, you know, 356 00:19:31,160 --> 00:19:34,800 Speaker 1: four or five percent prevalence rate, you know, strictly from 357 00:19:34,800 --> 00:19:38,280 Speaker 1: a management standpoint, So we've seen, you know what, Illinois 358 00:19:38,280 --> 00:19:41,560 Speaker 1: has done a much better job at limiting that spread 359 00:19:41,760 --> 00:19:44,720 Speaker 1: past two decades. There's a lot of other states who 360 00:19:44,720 --> 00:19:47,000 Speaker 1: are just now finding it or maybe have found it 361 00:19:47,000 --> 00:19:50,200 Speaker 1: within the last five years. They're able to do more 362 00:19:50,280 --> 00:19:53,760 Speaker 1: of what Illinois did, you know, to help limit that spread. 363 00:19:53,920 --> 00:19:57,840 Speaker 1: So we definitely have some case examples today of things 364 00:19:57,880 --> 00:20:01,280 Speaker 1: to do and things not to do that helps every 365 00:20:01,320 --> 00:20:04,600 Speaker 1: state that now finds it or you know, continues to 366 00:20:04,640 --> 00:20:07,119 Speaker 1: deal with it. You've got a big section in the 367 00:20:07,160 --> 00:20:11,639 Speaker 1: report about I think the terminology is targeted removal for 368 00:20:11,800 --> 00:20:15,720 Speaker 1: CWD management. Is that a big part of what Illinois 369 00:20:15,800 --> 00:20:19,320 Speaker 1: got right? Or if not, what do you think, you know, 370 00:20:19,359 --> 00:20:22,160 Speaker 1: what is the best practice that Illinois has has shown 371 00:20:22,240 --> 00:20:27,960 Speaker 1: works so much better than what's going on in Wisconsin. Yeah, 372 00:20:28,000 --> 00:20:30,480 Speaker 1: that is what they got right, and early on Wisconsin 373 00:20:30,640 --> 00:20:33,840 Speaker 1: employed that strategy as well, but for political reasons that 374 00:20:33,960 --> 00:20:37,680 Speaker 1: they had to forego it, so they stopped. Illinois continued 375 00:20:37,760 --> 00:20:41,480 Speaker 1: with that, and we are a big fan of that 376 00:20:42,000 --> 00:20:45,800 Speaker 1: partly because it allows agencies to go in and strategically 377 00:20:45,840 --> 00:20:48,439 Speaker 1: removed dear in areas where you know you have the disease. 378 00:20:48,840 --> 00:20:54,760 Speaker 1: So you can remove far more CWD positive animals by 379 00:20:54,800 --> 00:20:58,320 Speaker 1: shooting fewer animals in total than any other way. So 380 00:20:58,400 --> 00:21:01,080 Speaker 1: what that means is you can remove those animals from 381 00:21:01,080 --> 00:21:03,400 Speaker 1: the landscape, which helps all the deer that are there, 382 00:21:03,520 --> 00:21:06,560 Speaker 1: the remaining deer. But then it helps hunters too because 383 00:21:06,600 --> 00:21:10,920 Speaker 1: that is the least inconvenience to hunters. You know, it's 384 00:21:10,960 --> 00:21:14,480 Speaker 1: outside of the hunting season. It involves the smallest number 385 00:21:14,520 --> 00:21:18,000 Speaker 1: of properties, the smallest number of actual deer, So it's 386 00:21:18,080 --> 00:21:21,040 Speaker 1: best for hunters and it's best for the deer resource. 387 00:21:21,280 --> 00:21:25,000 Speaker 1: So so it's some targeted removal can be a really 388 00:21:25,040 --> 00:21:28,520 Speaker 1: really good strategy in those areas, and Illinois is living 389 00:21:28,560 --> 00:21:31,119 Speaker 1: proof of it. Okay, yeah, that makes sense. I know 390 00:21:31,200 --> 00:21:33,919 Speaker 1: it's I know that's no fun for the person who 391 00:21:34,000 --> 00:21:37,359 Speaker 1: owns and hunts that property where it happens, but it 392 00:21:37,440 --> 00:21:40,760 Speaker 1: sure seems to make sense for the long term, and 393 00:21:41,080 --> 00:21:43,119 Speaker 1: the numbers, like you said in Illinois certainly seemed to 394 00:21:43,160 --> 00:21:46,719 Speaker 1: back that up. It's hard to argue with that. You 395 00:21:46,760 --> 00:21:49,359 Speaker 1: mentioned one other piece of good news on the CWD side, 396 00:21:49,359 --> 00:21:52,960 Speaker 1: which is some legislation. I'm assuming you're referencing the CWD 397 00:21:53,160 --> 00:21:56,920 Speaker 1: Research and Management Act, which seemed like one of the 398 00:21:57,840 --> 00:22:01,960 Speaker 1: most substantial wins we've had from alleged lative perspective when 399 00:22:02,000 --> 00:22:05,199 Speaker 1: it comes to deer maybe in a while, Am I 400 00:22:05,320 --> 00:22:08,119 Speaker 1: right on that? Is? Is it truly going to be impactful? 401 00:22:08,160 --> 00:22:09,960 Speaker 1: This is the thing that folks were talking about last year, 402 00:22:09,960 --> 00:22:11,760 Speaker 1: really trying to push across the finish line, and we 403 00:22:11,840 --> 00:22:17,800 Speaker 1: did it. Now what Yeah, you're right, and that's exactly 404 00:22:17,800 --> 00:22:20,000 Speaker 1: what I'm talking about. You know, up to this point, 405 00:22:20,520 --> 00:22:23,120 Speaker 1: in the very early years, there was some federal funding 406 00:22:23,280 --> 00:22:27,080 Speaker 1: to monitor CWD and to collect samples. All that went 407 00:22:27,080 --> 00:22:31,760 Speaker 1: away almost twenty years ago. So the the cost of 408 00:22:31,760 --> 00:22:34,480 Speaker 1: this has been on the state wilife agencies, you know, 409 00:22:34,520 --> 00:22:37,040 Speaker 1: almost the entire cost, which means then they have to 410 00:22:37,080 --> 00:22:39,600 Speaker 1: take money away from other things they would much rather do, 411 00:22:39,840 --> 00:22:43,960 Speaker 1: like enhance habitat and you know, a hundred recruitment and 412 00:22:44,119 --> 00:22:46,760 Speaker 1: you know, public access, all those things that has hunters 413 00:22:46,760 --> 00:22:49,440 Speaker 1: we would love to have our state wallife agency working on. 414 00:22:50,000 --> 00:22:53,840 Speaker 1: So much of that money got shifted into disease sampling, 415 00:22:53,960 --> 00:22:58,960 Speaker 1: disease monitoring, etc. Well, now this CWD Research and Management 416 00:22:58,960 --> 00:23:03,440 Speaker 1: Act makes seventy million dollars available a year, thirty five 417 00:23:03,480 --> 00:23:06,680 Speaker 1: million for research, thirty five million for management, and that 418 00:23:06,760 --> 00:23:10,520 Speaker 1: will be split among the states. So that suddenly now 419 00:23:10,720 --> 00:23:12,840 Speaker 1: the money of the state wilife agencies had four of 420 00:23:12,880 --> 00:23:15,280 Speaker 1: those other things we wanted them to do, they can 421 00:23:15,359 --> 00:23:18,439 Speaker 1: put that money back in those coffers. So this is 422 00:23:18,600 --> 00:23:22,600 Speaker 1: this legislation is a huge win for deer hunters, for 423 00:23:22,840 --> 00:23:26,280 Speaker 1: all wildlife enthusiasts, and ultimately our deer hurts. So that 424 00:23:26,359 --> 00:23:29,400 Speaker 1: this is a really really good thing. Good good, Well, 425 00:23:29,520 --> 00:23:32,600 Speaker 1: I'm glad that was that was one of those nice 426 00:23:32,760 --> 00:23:34,719 Speaker 1: last minute addends there at the end of the year 427 00:23:34,800 --> 00:23:37,919 Speaker 1: last year that that came to fruition, and it seemed like, 428 00:23:37,960 --> 00:23:40,119 Speaker 1: man on paper, this sounds like it should be a 429 00:23:40,200 --> 00:23:43,520 Speaker 1: good thing because you know, we can't we can't solve 430 00:23:43,560 --> 00:23:45,920 Speaker 1: the CWD issue and finally push that off the plate 431 00:23:46,000 --> 00:23:49,680 Speaker 1: unless there's the funding necessary to get the research done, 432 00:23:49,760 --> 00:23:52,080 Speaker 1: to get the monitoring done to do all those different things. 433 00:23:52,080 --> 00:23:54,560 Speaker 1: So I was, I was glad to see that, um, 434 00:23:55,240 --> 00:23:57,400 Speaker 1: and now we'll just have to see what happens coming 435 00:23:57,440 --> 00:23:59,800 Speaker 1: out of it. But h but thank you for humoring 436 00:23:59,800 --> 00:24:03,120 Speaker 1: me kept by starting with like the downer topic, which 437 00:24:03,160 --> 00:24:05,760 Speaker 1: is not the most fun thing to talk about though, 438 00:24:06,480 --> 00:24:08,800 Speaker 1: But I feel like, as you in your analogy, like 439 00:24:08,840 --> 00:24:11,800 Speaker 1: the nagging injury that this elite athlete has right now 440 00:24:12,200 --> 00:24:15,199 Speaker 1: can't be ignored. If you ignore the nagging injury, that 441 00:24:15,320 --> 00:24:17,520 Speaker 1: nagging injury, all of a sudden becomes something that knocks 442 00:24:17,520 --> 00:24:19,200 Speaker 1: you out for a year or two or three, or 443 00:24:19,240 --> 00:24:21,680 Speaker 1: takes you out of the league completely. You know. So 444 00:24:22,320 --> 00:24:25,040 Speaker 1: let's let's look at in the hairy eyeball versus sweeping 445 00:24:25,080 --> 00:24:30,080 Speaker 1: underneath the rug. Now, I agree, it doesn't do it's 446 00:24:30,080 --> 00:24:33,600 Speaker 1: any good to hide from it. So there's there is 447 00:24:33,640 --> 00:24:36,320 Speaker 1: so much good stuff going on, So I think we're 448 00:24:36,359 --> 00:24:38,120 Speaker 1: fine starting with that one and getting that right out 449 00:24:38,160 --> 00:24:41,080 Speaker 1: of the way, and then we can just start talking 450 00:24:41,119 --> 00:24:46,679 Speaker 1: about good stuff and gain momentum throughout throughout this talk. Yes, exactly, So, 451 00:24:46,680 --> 00:24:48,960 Speaker 1: so give me some of the good news kit. What's 452 00:24:49,320 --> 00:24:52,880 Speaker 1: maybe one or two of the most exciting or important 453 00:24:52,920 --> 00:24:55,760 Speaker 1: takeaways that you took out of this year's report as 454 00:24:55,760 --> 00:25:00,560 Speaker 1: you compiled it and as you've reviewed it, we see 455 00:25:00,600 --> 00:25:04,560 Speaker 1: justin sheer numbers of deer that hunters are killing remains 456 00:25:04,680 --> 00:25:09,000 Speaker 1: very high. It really strong deer harvest across the white 457 00:25:09,000 --> 00:25:13,520 Speaker 1: tails range. We have mule deer harvests as well. That's 458 00:25:13,520 --> 00:25:17,000 Speaker 1: a separate section in here. And you know, relative to 459 00:25:17,240 --> 00:25:19,800 Speaker 1: five or ten years ago, mule deer are doing really 460 00:25:20,000 --> 00:25:22,720 Speaker 1: well too, so that's good. We had such a long 461 00:25:23,119 --> 00:25:25,919 Speaker 1: slide and mule deer numbers that the good news is 462 00:25:26,119 --> 00:25:30,280 Speaker 1: many of those populations today have either stabilized or some 463 00:25:30,320 --> 00:25:33,080 Speaker 1: of them are increasing. So mule deer are looking pretty 464 00:25:33,119 --> 00:25:35,800 Speaker 1: good relative to where they were a few years ago, 465 00:25:35,880 --> 00:25:40,200 Speaker 1: and white tails are really really strong. We're maintained in 466 00:25:40,640 --> 00:25:44,960 Speaker 1: very high buck harvest rate, almost historically high numbers. But 467 00:25:45,440 --> 00:25:48,600 Speaker 1: we have better age structure in the buckside that we've 468 00:25:48,600 --> 00:25:51,080 Speaker 1: had in at least the last one hundred and maybe 469 00:25:51,160 --> 00:25:54,560 Speaker 1: last hundred and fifty years. And that's pretty cool from 470 00:25:54,560 --> 00:25:57,880 Speaker 1: a deer health standpoint, and it's obviously really cool from 471 00:25:57,880 --> 00:26:02,200 Speaker 1: a hunter standpoint. Yeah. Yeah, I think that's one of 472 00:26:02,240 --> 00:26:05,720 Speaker 1: those things that folks are feeling on the ground. I mean, 473 00:26:06,040 --> 00:26:10,359 Speaker 1: just in my you know, fifteen years in this side 474 00:26:10,359 --> 00:26:13,280 Speaker 1: of things, running Wired to Hunt and everything. I remember 475 00:26:13,359 --> 00:26:17,800 Speaker 1: seeing these early reports about you know, age structure and 476 00:26:18,160 --> 00:26:20,000 Speaker 1: that data that was showing where things were, you know, 477 00:26:20,040 --> 00:26:22,520 Speaker 1: for example, in my home state of Michigan. And I 478 00:26:22,560 --> 00:26:24,720 Speaker 1: have been able to over the last fifteen plus year 479 00:26:24,800 --> 00:26:29,080 Speaker 1: scene on the ground with my own eyes those changes here, 480 00:26:29,400 --> 00:26:31,359 Speaker 1: and I know they're being felt across the state or 481 00:26:31,359 --> 00:26:35,040 Speaker 1: across the country. Sorry, and yeah, I mean, I know 482 00:26:35,040 --> 00:26:37,600 Speaker 1: we've talked about this in the past, but that age structure, 483 00:26:38,200 --> 00:26:40,679 Speaker 1: it leads to a different hunting experience, whether or not 484 00:26:40,760 --> 00:26:44,439 Speaker 1: you're wanting to target mature bucks. It just leads to 485 00:26:44,520 --> 00:26:49,480 Speaker 1: a more natural herd, a different dynamic across the landscape. 486 00:26:50,280 --> 00:26:52,159 Speaker 1: It seems to have a lot of ripple effects, right, 487 00:26:52,160 --> 00:26:55,280 Speaker 1: I mean, that's been what the QTMA preached for so 488 00:26:55,320 --> 00:26:57,840 Speaker 1: many years, was that there's all these there's this cascading 489 00:26:57,920 --> 00:27:01,240 Speaker 1: series of benefits when you manage for a natural herd 490 00:27:01,280 --> 00:27:05,159 Speaker 1: in balance with the habitat. And and you must I 491 00:27:05,160 --> 00:27:07,000 Speaker 1: think we've talked about this last year, maybe too, but 492 00:27:07,240 --> 00:27:09,240 Speaker 1: it must be really rewarding for you, Kip and the 493 00:27:09,240 --> 00:27:11,679 Speaker 1: rest of the team there to see so many of 494 00:27:11,680 --> 00:27:13,600 Speaker 1: the things that you've advocated for over the last couple 495 00:27:13,640 --> 00:27:19,280 Speaker 1: of decades, you know, manifesting in real life now. Oh, 496 00:27:19,359 --> 00:27:24,600 Speaker 1: it is that it's so rewarding, you know, because we 497 00:27:24,720 --> 00:27:26,840 Speaker 1: want to see deer herds man as well, you know, 498 00:27:27,000 --> 00:27:29,080 Speaker 1: and be able to express what they can and you know, 499 00:27:29,200 --> 00:27:31,679 Speaker 1: and show the way that they evolve. And you know, 500 00:27:31,680 --> 00:27:34,640 Speaker 1: in the hunters are the ultimate benefishiaries of that. So 501 00:27:35,200 --> 00:27:38,120 Speaker 1: being a lifelong deer hunter, it's great to see hunters 502 00:27:38,160 --> 00:27:40,920 Speaker 1: be able to photograph older bucks during the course of 503 00:27:41,200 --> 00:27:44,280 Speaker 1: the year and you know, and see very natural behaviors 504 00:27:44,320 --> 00:27:47,080 Speaker 1: like a group of bachelor a group of bucks in 505 00:27:47,119 --> 00:27:50,080 Speaker 1: the summer, and you know, an older deer in the fall, 506 00:27:50,200 --> 00:27:52,359 Speaker 1: you know, a chase mature bucks during the rut and 507 00:27:52,600 --> 00:27:56,200 Speaker 1: fighting and just everything that goes with it. It is very, 508 00:27:56,320 --> 00:28:01,040 Speaker 1: very rewarding for sure. And I vividly remember, um, maybe 509 00:28:01,560 --> 00:28:04,520 Speaker 1: fifteen years ago, I built a talk that I gave 510 00:28:04,600 --> 00:28:07,320 Speaker 1: on you know, uh where where the best places were 511 00:28:07,320 --> 00:28:10,000 Speaker 1: to kill mature bucks? And uh gosh, it was like, 512 00:28:10,000 --> 00:28:13,200 Speaker 1: you know, five places in the country, you know that 513 00:28:13,200 --> 00:28:16,120 Speaker 1: that's where if you wanted the mature buck, you went 514 00:28:16,160 --> 00:28:18,119 Speaker 1: to one of these places. And that was really it. 515 00:28:18,520 --> 00:28:20,919 Speaker 1: And uh, just think about where we are today. You know, 516 00:28:21,000 --> 00:28:24,040 Speaker 1: you legitimately have the chance of killing a mature buck, 517 00:28:24,440 --> 00:28:27,120 Speaker 1: you know, in every single state that white tails live. 518 00:28:27,320 --> 00:28:30,400 Speaker 1: So it's not just you know, a handful of hunters anymore, 519 00:28:30,480 --> 00:28:32,680 Speaker 1: or you don't have to travel numerous states to get 520 00:28:32,680 --> 00:28:35,440 Speaker 1: to one of these spots anymore. You know, deer are 521 00:28:35,520 --> 00:28:38,800 Speaker 1: are accessible to just about every hunter in the country, 522 00:28:38,960 --> 00:28:40,840 Speaker 1: and you can you can be in any state that 523 00:28:40,920 --> 00:28:44,840 Speaker 1: white tails are and legitimately have a chance to hunt 524 00:28:45,000 --> 00:29:00,520 Speaker 1: mature deer. And uh, and that's really really cool. Now, 525 00:29:00,960 --> 00:29:03,320 Speaker 1: while on the buck side of things and age structure 526 00:29:03,440 --> 00:29:07,440 Speaker 1: and sheer numbers, that all seems to be pretty darn positive. 527 00:29:08,760 --> 00:29:12,080 Speaker 1: You know, the other half of the quality dear management 528 00:29:12,160 --> 00:29:16,280 Speaker 1: equation has always been also managing the antler list population, 529 00:29:16,400 --> 00:29:19,640 Speaker 1: and that is how you manage the overall population in 530 00:29:19,720 --> 00:29:24,040 Speaker 1: relation to habitat, right, And that the antler list side 531 00:29:24,040 --> 00:29:26,720 Speaker 1: of things stood out to me though, is another possible 532 00:29:27,600 --> 00:29:30,080 Speaker 1: This looks like a little concerning And I know over 533 00:29:30,120 --> 00:29:31,960 Speaker 1: the last couple of years you've been seeing this too, 534 00:29:32,000 --> 00:29:35,440 Speaker 1: this idea or idea, but the fact that we seem 535 00:29:35,440 --> 00:29:38,920 Speaker 1: to be getting a reduced antler list harvest compared to 536 00:29:39,320 --> 00:29:42,040 Speaker 1: antler bucks when it really should be the reverse. If 537 00:29:42,080 --> 00:29:43,720 Speaker 1: I think I got the steat here right, tell me 538 00:29:43,720 --> 00:29:45,680 Speaker 1: if this is wrong. But I think in the report 539 00:29:45,680 --> 00:29:49,240 Speaker 1: it showed that fifty nine percent of states killed more 540 00:29:49,240 --> 00:29:52,520 Speaker 1: bucks than does in the twenty twenty one season, which 541 00:29:52,560 --> 00:29:54,880 Speaker 1: is what the stat is from. Did I get that right? 542 00:29:54,960 --> 00:29:56,920 Speaker 1: And what's your read on that and the trend that 543 00:29:56,920 --> 00:30:00,960 Speaker 1: we've seen pop up in the last couple of years. Yeah, 544 00:30:01,520 --> 00:30:04,000 Speaker 1: the one thing that we need to really start and 545 00:30:04,080 --> 00:30:06,320 Speaker 1: a handle on is we do need to start shooting 546 00:30:06,360 --> 00:30:10,880 Speaker 1: more ant loists deer than antlerd bucks. Again. For a 547 00:30:10,880 --> 00:30:14,120 Speaker 1: bunch of years during the early in mid two thousands, 548 00:30:14,120 --> 00:30:16,880 Speaker 1: we did that, and that's what gave us a bunch 549 00:30:16,920 --> 00:30:20,160 Speaker 1: of the successes that we have today relative to correct 550 00:30:20,280 --> 00:30:24,080 Speaker 1: number of deer for what our habitats can support. But 551 00:30:24,640 --> 00:30:30,080 Speaker 1: we come along, you know, two fourteen fifteen, basically a 552 00:30:30,160 --> 00:30:34,240 Speaker 1: lot of states, through increased antalist harvests, had balanced deer 553 00:30:34,240 --> 00:30:39,400 Speaker 1: herbs with their habitat, so they strategically then reduced the 554 00:30:39,480 --> 00:30:41,800 Speaker 1: number of ant loist year that hunters needed to take. 555 00:30:42,160 --> 00:30:44,000 Speaker 1: You know, we don't need to shoot some many anymore 556 00:30:44,040 --> 00:30:46,840 Speaker 1: because we're in a good spot. Well, that corresponded with 557 00:30:47,040 --> 00:30:49,920 Speaker 1: a couple of really bad hammorrhagic disease years where we 558 00:30:50,000 --> 00:30:52,440 Speaker 1: lost a bunch of deer about the time that in 559 00:30:52,480 --> 00:30:56,840 Speaker 1: the southeastern US we were seeing greatly elevated kyrie populations 560 00:30:56,880 --> 00:30:59,880 Speaker 1: and reduced fun recruitment rates. So there was a lot 561 00:30:59,880 --> 00:31:02,560 Speaker 1: of things that work together there and really scared a 562 00:31:02,560 --> 00:31:05,680 Speaker 1: bunch of hunters into oh man, we were shooting a 563 00:31:05,720 --> 00:31:08,120 Speaker 1: bunch of doze. Things were good. All of a sudden, 564 00:31:08,120 --> 00:31:10,320 Speaker 1: Now our agencies are telling us not to shoot as 565 00:31:10,360 --> 00:31:14,680 Speaker 1: many and deer herbs are dropping. So what that did 566 00:31:14,800 --> 00:31:17,360 Speaker 1: is that had a ripple effect where for several years 567 00:31:17,400 --> 00:31:21,040 Speaker 1: after that, hunters really pulled back it purposely were passing 568 00:31:21,080 --> 00:31:24,640 Speaker 1: on ant last deer that probably didn't need to as much. 569 00:31:25,040 --> 00:31:28,160 Speaker 1: So we're at a point today where you know, suddenly 570 00:31:28,440 --> 00:31:32,280 Speaker 1: more states or harvesting bucks than ant last deer now, 571 00:31:32,600 --> 00:31:35,040 Speaker 1: which is not a not a good thing. There are 572 00:31:35,040 --> 00:31:38,920 Speaker 1: some states that should do that. States northern New England, 573 00:31:39,880 --> 00:31:42,280 Speaker 1: some of the states on the west that are kind 574 00:31:42,320 --> 00:31:44,880 Speaker 1: of on the fringe of white tail habitat, Yeah, they 575 00:31:44,880 --> 00:31:47,800 Speaker 1: can be very successful by harvesting more bucks than does 576 00:31:47,880 --> 00:31:51,239 Speaker 1: each year. But most of the US they should be 577 00:31:51,280 --> 00:31:54,760 Speaker 1: harvesting more ant list deer than bucks, or else those 578 00:31:54,800 --> 00:31:57,920 Speaker 1: deer herds just grow too high and you end up 579 00:31:57,960 --> 00:32:00,520 Speaker 1: back like we were twenty and thirty years ago, and 580 00:32:00,640 --> 00:32:03,360 Speaker 1: there's just way more deer than we had food for. 581 00:32:03,720 --> 00:32:08,000 Speaker 1: So we're we're still in a good shape. But the 582 00:32:08,080 --> 00:32:10,760 Speaker 1: last couple of years we have started to sound the 583 00:32:10,840 --> 00:32:13,960 Speaker 1: alarm that hey, we're we've really backed off on the 584 00:32:13,960 --> 00:32:16,400 Speaker 1: antlists side. We're not back off on the buck side. 585 00:32:16,400 --> 00:32:19,600 Speaker 1: We're killing more bucks than we ever were, but we 586 00:32:19,680 --> 00:32:22,680 Speaker 1: need hunters to start shooting some more antlists deer as 587 00:32:22,680 --> 00:32:25,680 Speaker 1: well to make sure we don't get ourselves in the 588 00:32:25,720 --> 00:32:28,400 Speaker 1: same predicament that we had back in the seventies and 589 00:32:28,440 --> 00:32:32,840 Speaker 1: eighties and nineties. Yeah, and so is it still the case? So, 590 00:32:32,880 --> 00:32:34,160 Speaker 1: I know you mentioned there was a little bit of 591 00:32:34,200 --> 00:32:37,560 Speaker 1: a blowback after populations dropped and hunters got scared and 592 00:32:37,600 --> 00:32:42,000 Speaker 1: worried about this. Is it still a hunter culture issue 593 00:32:42,080 --> 00:32:45,160 Speaker 1: right now that's leading to these reduced antlalyst harvests, or 594 00:32:45,280 --> 00:32:51,560 Speaker 1: is any of the regulation it's hunter culture. Um, there 595 00:32:51,600 --> 00:32:54,800 Speaker 1: are opportunities to shoot more ant laists deer and almost 596 00:32:55,000 --> 00:32:59,000 Speaker 1: every state that hunters are taking advantage of. So it's 597 00:32:59,040 --> 00:33:01,960 Speaker 1: just it's a punch as choosing not to to shoot 598 00:33:02,000 --> 00:33:05,960 Speaker 1: those deers. One of the statistics that we monitor is 599 00:33:05,960 --> 00:33:08,280 Speaker 1: just hunter success rates. And if we take a look 600 00:33:08,320 --> 00:33:12,120 Speaker 1: around the country, you know, every hunter has a chance 601 00:33:12,160 --> 00:33:14,160 Speaker 1: to shoot a buck. In many states, you have an 602 00:33:14,160 --> 00:33:16,880 Speaker 1: opportunity to shoot multiple bucks. You could shoot multiple antle 603 00:33:17,000 --> 00:33:20,680 Speaker 1: this steer. But nationally, only about forty one percent of 604 00:33:20,720 --> 00:33:24,080 Speaker 1: all the hunters shoot a single deer. So less than 605 00:33:24,160 --> 00:33:26,200 Speaker 1: half of all the hunters that went a field last 606 00:33:26,280 --> 00:33:30,120 Speaker 1: year shot a deer, and only about eighteen percent of 607 00:33:30,160 --> 00:33:33,040 Speaker 1: all the hunters will shoot more than one. So what 608 00:33:33,200 --> 00:33:37,400 Speaker 1: we have is, you know, this focus more on the 609 00:33:37,440 --> 00:33:40,680 Speaker 1: buck side than the antlyd side. And hey, I get it. 610 00:33:40,720 --> 00:33:43,920 Speaker 1: I mean there's more big deer running around than ever before. 611 00:33:44,440 --> 00:33:46,920 Speaker 1: So we have a lot of hunters that say, you 612 00:33:46,960 --> 00:33:49,720 Speaker 1: know what, maybe I'm only going to eat one deer 613 00:33:50,040 --> 00:33:52,320 Speaker 1: or can't eat more than that. So if I'm only 614 00:33:52,320 --> 00:33:54,320 Speaker 1: going to shoot one, I'm going to shoot a buck 615 00:33:54,360 --> 00:33:56,200 Speaker 1: if I had to get a chance. And more hunters 616 00:33:56,240 --> 00:33:59,480 Speaker 1: today are having a chance of shooting deer that are three, four, 617 00:33:59,640 --> 00:34:02,240 Speaker 1: you know, five years old. It's hard to knock a 618 00:34:02,320 --> 00:34:05,440 Speaker 1: hunter for shooting you know, a middle age or a 619 00:34:05,440 --> 00:34:08,279 Speaker 1: mature buck. So what we need to do, Mark is 620 00:34:08,400 --> 00:34:11,400 Speaker 1: convince more of them. All right, that's totally fine, and 621 00:34:11,560 --> 00:34:15,160 Speaker 1: congratulations for shooting that, but let's do, you know, help 622 00:34:15,200 --> 00:34:18,560 Speaker 1: out our deer herds and also take an antlist deer. 623 00:34:19,120 --> 00:34:21,480 Speaker 1: And I think the way we can encourage more folks 624 00:34:21,520 --> 00:34:24,440 Speaker 1: to do that is, you know, help provide more from 625 00:34:24,560 --> 00:34:29,960 Speaker 1: the venison donation side, where you know, more people would 626 00:34:29,960 --> 00:34:31,759 Speaker 1: donate a deer if they didn't either have to pay 627 00:34:31,800 --> 00:34:33,759 Speaker 1: for the process need or pay for a portion of 628 00:34:33,800 --> 00:34:36,520 Speaker 1: the processing. So I think we have a really good 629 00:34:36,520 --> 00:34:40,480 Speaker 1: opportunity to help hunters from that end where they can 630 00:34:40,680 --> 00:34:44,000 Speaker 1: shoot that antlist deer, either give it to a friend 631 00:34:44,160 --> 00:34:45,919 Speaker 1: or a needy family, or take it to a place 632 00:34:45,920 --> 00:34:48,879 Speaker 1: that can be donated, you know, at no cost to them, 633 00:34:49,600 --> 00:34:53,360 Speaker 1: where hey, they're they're helping the deer herd, they're feeding 634 00:34:53,400 --> 00:34:55,879 Speaker 1: the needy family, man, they're a champion of society. So 635 00:34:56,000 --> 00:34:59,000 Speaker 1: oh yeah, I think that is the next thing as 636 00:34:59,120 --> 00:35:03,120 Speaker 1: hunters and as managers where we can really make a 637 00:35:03,160 --> 00:35:05,879 Speaker 1: big game. Yeah. I think that's a think that's a great, 638 00:35:06,040 --> 00:35:11,560 Speaker 1: great point and something that if let's take a little 639 00:35:11,600 --> 00:35:14,200 Speaker 1: step back and dive into that a little more, because 640 00:35:14,200 --> 00:35:16,239 Speaker 1: I think there's a bunch of questions that pop up 641 00:35:16,239 --> 00:35:21,399 Speaker 1: for hunters when they start thinking about analysts harvest, questions like, well, 642 00:35:21,840 --> 00:35:25,200 Speaker 1: how do I know if my specific property has enough 643 00:35:25,239 --> 00:35:27,719 Speaker 1: dos to be shooting a bunch of them? Or how 644 00:35:27,760 --> 00:35:31,239 Speaker 1: do I know how many doughs to shoot? Or I mean, 645 00:35:31,280 --> 00:35:33,160 Speaker 1: there's a whole bunch of questions. What about when's the 646 00:35:33,200 --> 00:35:35,400 Speaker 1: best time to be shooting a doll? Or is it 647 00:35:35,400 --> 00:35:37,640 Speaker 1: okay to shoot a doll that has too young of 648 00:35:37,640 --> 00:35:40,799 Speaker 1: the year with it. There's all these new questions that 649 00:35:40,840 --> 00:35:43,360 Speaker 1: pop up when you start talking about doe harvest that 650 00:35:43,480 --> 00:35:45,440 Speaker 1: just don't seem to be there when it comes to bucks. 651 00:35:47,000 --> 00:35:50,040 Speaker 1: So if you humor me, Kip, can we tackle a 652 00:35:50,080 --> 00:35:51,960 Speaker 1: couple of those questions since we're on the topic of 653 00:35:52,080 --> 00:35:55,239 Speaker 1: analysts harvest, Since this is so important, let's just get 654 00:35:55,280 --> 00:35:57,560 Speaker 1: some of these big boogeyman questions out of the way 655 00:35:57,719 --> 00:36:01,120 Speaker 1: so that hunters listening today we'll can say, Okay, yes, 656 00:36:01,160 --> 00:36:04,600 Speaker 1: I do need to participate an analysts harvest, or at 657 00:36:04,640 --> 00:36:06,879 Speaker 1: least we do across the country in many places. So 658 00:36:06,920 --> 00:36:09,480 Speaker 1: how can I better understand these specific questions to know 659 00:36:09,880 --> 00:36:12,120 Speaker 1: if I can on my property and the right way 660 00:36:12,160 --> 00:36:15,319 Speaker 1: to do it. Do you want to tackle a couple 661 00:36:15,360 --> 00:36:17,640 Speaker 1: those kip or do you want me to repeat them 662 00:36:17,640 --> 00:36:21,239 Speaker 1: while they're fresh? Sure? No, I'm glad to do that 663 00:36:21,360 --> 00:36:24,680 Speaker 1: because I do think this is the most important fast 664 00:36:24,840 --> 00:36:27,680 Speaker 1: and deer management. And as much as I like bucks, 665 00:36:27,680 --> 00:36:29,279 Speaker 1: and as much as I like seeing you know the 666 00:36:29,320 --> 00:36:33,040 Speaker 1: bucks I property managed, the most important point is not 667 00:36:33,160 --> 00:36:36,879 Speaker 1: having too many deer for the landscape or too few, dear, 668 00:36:37,160 --> 00:36:40,200 Speaker 1: you know, it's about having the biologically appropriate numbers so 669 00:36:40,760 --> 00:36:44,600 Speaker 1: everybody gets enough to eat or not degrading habitat. All 670 00:36:44,640 --> 00:36:47,360 Speaker 1: those other wildlife species there, you know, are able to 671 00:36:47,400 --> 00:36:50,120 Speaker 1: benefit from a good habitat. So so it all starts 672 00:36:50,120 --> 00:36:53,239 Speaker 1: with the endless side. And we have all kinds of 673 00:36:53,960 --> 00:36:56,880 Speaker 1: articles on our website that folks can run through to 674 00:36:56,920 --> 00:36:59,360 Speaker 1: be able to calculate how many dose they should remove 675 00:36:59,480 --> 00:37:02,560 Speaker 1: from the area they are, but just real basic and 676 00:37:02,560 --> 00:37:04,760 Speaker 1: there was a general rule of thumb for the vast 677 00:37:04,800 --> 00:37:08,080 Speaker 1: majority of white tail hunters you should be removing more 678 00:37:08,239 --> 00:37:11,759 Speaker 1: dos than you are bucks on an annual basis. There 679 00:37:11,800 --> 00:37:14,400 Speaker 1: are certainly some exceptions in some of those states you know, 680 00:37:14,400 --> 00:37:17,359 Speaker 1: they're kind of a white tail extremes, but for most 681 00:37:17,400 --> 00:37:19,680 Speaker 1: of us, you know, if you're a landowner and you're 682 00:37:19,719 --> 00:37:22,120 Speaker 1: going to shoot, you know, one or two bucks off 683 00:37:22,200 --> 00:37:24,719 Speaker 1: your property each year be taken at least one or 684 00:37:24,760 --> 00:37:27,400 Speaker 1: two doughs. Make sure you're taking at least that many. 685 00:37:27,600 --> 00:37:30,080 Speaker 1: And that's a that's a great place to start. But 686 00:37:30,160 --> 00:37:32,520 Speaker 1: it's very simple for people to be able to just 687 00:37:32,560 --> 00:37:34,840 Speaker 1: take a look at what's going on and assess, you 688 00:37:34,840 --> 00:37:36,600 Speaker 1: know what, did they think I have too many deer 689 00:37:36,680 --> 00:37:39,320 Speaker 1: for the amount of food or not? If you plant 690 00:37:39,320 --> 00:37:42,040 Speaker 1: food plots, you know, if you have an exclusion cage, 691 00:37:42,080 --> 00:37:44,799 Speaker 1: there as the food outside of an exclusion cage as 692 00:37:44,840 --> 00:37:47,719 Speaker 1: tall as it is inside. For nine percent of the 693 00:37:47,719 --> 00:37:50,719 Speaker 1: people who plant food plots answers no. That means those 694 00:37:50,760 --> 00:37:53,520 Speaker 1: deer and that using that property could use more food. 695 00:37:54,040 --> 00:37:56,960 Speaker 1: So in your woods, do you have all kinds of 696 00:37:57,040 --> 00:38:00,360 Speaker 1: new trees regenerating all these little seedlings and sapling, or 697 00:38:00,480 --> 00:38:02,600 Speaker 1: is it you know a brows line where deer of 698 00:38:02,600 --> 00:38:05,560 Speaker 1: eating everything. If that's the case, there's not enough food, 699 00:38:05,680 --> 00:38:08,600 Speaker 1: it means either you need to enhance habit to provide 700 00:38:08,640 --> 00:38:11,200 Speaker 1: more food, and you also need to then reduced deer 701 00:38:11,280 --> 00:38:16,200 Speaker 1: numbers so there's less mouths vying for that. So so 702 00:38:16,239 --> 00:38:19,520 Speaker 1: there's some pretty simple things that hunters can do to 703 00:38:19,600 --> 00:38:21,920 Speaker 1: at least start to assis, you know, what, are there 704 00:38:21,920 --> 00:38:24,399 Speaker 1: more deer than there should be? And let maybe take 705 00:38:24,440 --> 00:38:26,799 Speaker 1: it back, nobody thinks there's more deer than there should 706 00:38:26,840 --> 00:38:28,399 Speaker 1: be And I'm the same way. I like to see 707 00:38:28,440 --> 00:38:30,839 Speaker 1: dear when I'm hut, are there more deer than there 708 00:38:30,920 --> 00:38:33,959 Speaker 1: is available food? And if the answer is yes, hey 709 00:38:34,120 --> 00:38:36,359 Speaker 1: ta take an extra dough this year, you know, and 710 00:38:36,360 --> 00:38:39,680 Speaker 1: then and then assess again next year. So that's some 711 00:38:39,719 --> 00:38:42,600 Speaker 1: pretty easy things hunters can do to help, you know, 712 00:38:42,719 --> 00:38:46,280 Speaker 1: battle that. Yeah, that's that's great. And like you mentioned, 713 00:38:46,440 --> 00:38:50,000 Speaker 1: I'll just second the point you made about the fact 714 00:38:50,000 --> 00:38:52,719 Speaker 1: that you guys have some great resources on the website, 715 00:38:53,200 --> 00:38:56,120 Speaker 1: uh that break down, you know, some more detailed ways 716 00:38:56,160 --> 00:38:59,080 Speaker 1: to assess what your population is on your property. I 717 00:38:59,120 --> 00:39:01,600 Speaker 1: know there's some different you know, surveying techniques that can 718 00:39:01,680 --> 00:39:03,760 Speaker 1: give you a better sense of Okay, what's the herd 719 00:39:03,840 --> 00:39:08,400 Speaker 1: looking like, what would be the appropriate antlerlest harvest? They 720 00:39:08,440 --> 00:39:10,719 Speaker 1: can they can find all that. What's the website is 721 00:39:10,719 --> 00:39:15,440 Speaker 1: a deer association dot org or what does it know? Doc? Yeah, 722 00:39:15,520 --> 00:39:19,239 Speaker 1: Deer Association dot com? Okay, perfect, So definitely check that 723 00:39:19,280 --> 00:39:22,520 Speaker 1: out for anybody who wants more details? Um, what about 724 00:39:22,560 --> 00:39:26,719 Speaker 1: a couple more? What about the best time of year 725 00:39:26,920 --> 00:39:29,640 Speaker 1: to take a doll. There's a lot of folks, myself included, 726 00:39:29,960 --> 00:39:33,000 Speaker 1: that at times have worried about shooting a doll earlier 727 00:39:33,040 --> 00:39:34,719 Speaker 1: in the year because I didn't want to mess up 728 00:39:34,760 --> 00:39:37,480 Speaker 1: my buck hunting prospects, and I always wait until the 729 00:39:37,560 --> 00:39:39,839 Speaker 1: end of the year, and then many years I would 730 00:39:39,880 --> 00:39:41,759 Speaker 1: push it off, push it off, push it off, and 731 00:39:41,800 --> 00:39:43,400 Speaker 1: then when I'm actually trying to kill a doll at 732 00:39:43,440 --> 00:39:45,120 Speaker 1: the end of the year, it ends up being harder 733 00:39:45,120 --> 00:39:48,000 Speaker 1: than I think, and I don't have as much success 734 00:39:48,000 --> 00:39:51,160 Speaker 1: as I wanted. Um, what's your take on that, Kip. 735 00:39:51,200 --> 00:39:53,719 Speaker 1: I know I've heard, I've heard it said that early 736 00:39:53,800 --> 00:39:58,319 Speaker 1: and often is better, But what would you say. I'm 737 00:39:58,320 --> 00:40:02,520 Speaker 1: a big fan of early season antalysts harvest, partly because, 738 00:40:02,920 --> 00:40:06,200 Speaker 1: as you alluded to, they get really wise towards the 739 00:40:06,280 --> 00:40:08,719 Speaker 1: end a hunting season and very hard to see. So 740 00:40:09,280 --> 00:40:12,879 Speaker 1: I personally go into every hunting season with a dough 741 00:40:12,960 --> 00:40:16,279 Speaker 1: harvest prescription for our farm. I calculated, this is how 742 00:40:16,320 --> 00:40:18,799 Speaker 1: many doughs we're gonna shoot this year. Share that with 743 00:40:18,880 --> 00:40:21,000 Speaker 1: all of the friends and family members that I know, 744 00:40:21,040 --> 00:40:23,839 Speaker 1: we'll be hunting, and we have a bunch of people 745 00:40:23,840 --> 00:40:26,279 Speaker 1: that hunt our farm, so we start every season with 746 00:40:26,360 --> 00:40:29,120 Speaker 1: a plan. Hey, this is how many we're going to kill. 747 00:40:29,600 --> 00:40:32,960 Speaker 1: So the earlier you can get started at that, the 748 00:40:33,080 --> 00:40:36,360 Speaker 1: more likely you are to meet that quota. And I 749 00:40:36,680 --> 00:40:39,359 Speaker 1: love to take care of that early in the year 750 00:40:39,440 --> 00:40:42,320 Speaker 1: because then I can save that food that those doughs 751 00:40:42,360 --> 00:40:44,600 Speaker 1: would have been eaten during the course of the year 752 00:40:44,640 --> 00:40:48,040 Speaker 1: for other deer. And there is no better feeling than 753 00:40:48,080 --> 00:40:50,839 Speaker 1: to get to the rut, which for many people that's 754 00:40:50,840 --> 00:40:54,000 Speaker 1: the favorite time to hunt, and no man, I've already 755 00:40:54,040 --> 00:40:56,719 Speaker 1: shot one dough or two dos or wherever how many 756 00:40:56,760 --> 00:41:00,200 Speaker 1: I'm gonna I literally can just focus the whole to 757 00:41:00,239 --> 00:41:03,480 Speaker 1: my hunting season on hunting a buck. So that is 758 00:41:03,520 --> 00:41:05,919 Speaker 1: a great place to be because I know so many 759 00:41:05,960 --> 00:41:08,000 Speaker 1: people don't want to mess something up in the rut, 760 00:41:08,080 --> 00:41:11,600 Speaker 1: you know, by shooting the dough. And although having a 761 00:41:11,680 --> 00:41:15,480 Speaker 1: dead dough nearby is literally one of the absolute best 762 00:41:15,640 --> 00:41:19,319 Speaker 1: buckmac that you can have during the rut, but I'm 763 00:41:19,360 --> 00:41:22,840 Speaker 1: a big fan of that early season and I personally 764 00:41:22,840 --> 00:41:25,359 Speaker 1: shoot dose early and I have the people that hunt 765 00:41:25,440 --> 00:41:28,320 Speaker 1: our farm all shoot dos from opening day of archery 766 00:41:28,520 --> 00:41:31,480 Speaker 1: get them as early as we can. That's just a 767 00:41:31,680 --> 00:41:34,840 Speaker 1: really good for the deer hurt. Yeah. And another plus 768 00:41:34,840 --> 00:41:37,480 Speaker 1: of that approach, at least if you take enough doughs, 769 00:41:37,680 --> 00:41:41,520 Speaker 1: is that if you have way too many doughs during 770 00:41:41,520 --> 00:41:45,080 Speaker 1: the rut, it tends to lead to a situation where 771 00:41:45,239 --> 00:41:46,919 Speaker 1: the bucks don't need to work too hard to find 772 00:41:46,920 --> 00:41:50,160 Speaker 1: a receptive dough, and so they are locked down more 773 00:41:50,200 --> 00:41:54,480 Speaker 1: often with a dough and traveling long distances less and 774 00:41:55,040 --> 00:41:56,799 Speaker 1: that leads to you know, you're not getting to see 775 00:41:56,800 --> 00:41:59,279 Speaker 1: the frenetic chasing and seeking of bucks. But if you've 776 00:41:59,320 --> 00:42:03,000 Speaker 1: got a or imbalance structure of bucks or ratio between 777 00:42:03,040 --> 00:42:05,319 Speaker 1: bucks and does if you're taken a few more doughs 778 00:42:05,320 --> 00:42:08,080 Speaker 1: off the farm before the rut, those bucks willing need 779 00:42:08,120 --> 00:42:10,280 Speaker 1: to travel a little more, be a little bit more active, 780 00:42:10,640 --> 00:42:12,799 Speaker 1: you know, work a little harder, which which leads to 781 00:42:12,840 --> 00:42:18,600 Speaker 1: hopefully better hunting encounters. Right exactly. And you know, most 782 00:42:18,680 --> 00:42:21,839 Speaker 1: doughs on a property, at least in the northern two 783 00:42:22,160 --> 00:42:24,520 Speaker 1: thirds of the US, they're going to be bread over 784 00:42:24,560 --> 00:42:28,520 Speaker 1: a very short window. So you know, the fewer doughs 785 00:42:28,600 --> 00:42:30,839 Speaker 1: that you actually have coming into heat any given day 786 00:42:31,200 --> 00:42:33,719 Speaker 1: just just adds to the excitement of the rut and 787 00:42:33,760 --> 00:42:36,920 Speaker 1: adds to you know, to more movement by those bucks. Uh. 788 00:42:37,160 --> 00:42:39,520 Speaker 1: The rut can be an incredibly fun place to be 789 00:42:40,680 --> 00:42:43,000 Speaker 1: and time to hunt, or it can be one of 790 00:42:43,000 --> 00:42:45,840 Speaker 1: the loneliest times of the whole year. I've had plenty 791 00:42:45,880 --> 00:42:48,680 Speaker 1: of sits during the you know, early mid November on 792 00:42:48,880 --> 00:42:52,080 Speaker 1: really good properties where you know, I saw almost nothing. 793 00:42:52,560 --> 00:42:54,720 Speaker 1: You know, it's because of you know, all the bucks 794 00:42:54,719 --> 00:42:56,480 Speaker 1: were with those or you know, that just wasn't a 795 00:42:56,480 --> 00:43:00,920 Speaker 1: hot dough moving. So it's it's far better for hunters 796 00:43:00,960 --> 00:43:04,160 Speaker 1: to have bucks under their feet seeking those doughs. And 797 00:43:04,320 --> 00:43:06,040 Speaker 1: that happens, you know, when you when you have a 798 00:43:06,120 --> 00:43:08,840 Speaker 1: very balance sex ratio as those gear come into the 799 00:43:09,120 --> 00:43:13,680 Speaker 1: into rut rather than just having doughs everywhere. Yeah, okay, 800 00:43:13,719 --> 00:43:16,160 Speaker 1: here's another situation that a lot of guys will bulk 801 00:43:16,200 --> 00:43:18,239 Speaker 1: at guys or girls bulk when they are in the 802 00:43:18,320 --> 00:43:20,640 Speaker 1: tree and they're gonna go out there and try to 803 00:43:20,640 --> 00:43:23,239 Speaker 1: take a dough. But then here comes the mature dough 804 00:43:23,360 --> 00:43:26,919 Speaker 1: with a yearling or two. There's some folks that see 805 00:43:26,920 --> 00:43:29,120 Speaker 1: that and then and they're really worried about, you know, 806 00:43:29,200 --> 00:43:32,320 Speaker 1: if those doughs should be on the target list. I 807 00:43:32,360 --> 00:43:36,760 Speaker 1: guess you might say, what's your take on that situation? 808 00:43:36,880 --> 00:43:40,000 Speaker 1: Is it okay to take that mature dough or should 809 00:43:40,000 --> 00:43:45,239 Speaker 1: you not? As long as those fawns do not have spots, 810 00:43:45,760 --> 00:43:47,719 Speaker 1: they are plenty big enough to survive on their own. 811 00:43:48,000 --> 00:43:49,640 Speaker 1: You know, if you're in an area where they were 812 00:43:49,680 --> 00:43:52,319 Speaker 1: just really late born, or you know your season is 813 00:43:52,360 --> 00:43:55,120 Speaker 1: just really early where yeah, you can still see spots 814 00:43:55,160 --> 00:43:57,560 Speaker 1: on them, then I would go ahead and pass that dough. 815 00:43:58,080 --> 00:44:01,319 Speaker 1: If they don't have spots, she's on the target list. Now. 816 00:44:01,400 --> 00:44:03,960 Speaker 1: I totally get some people do not want to shoot 817 00:44:03,960 --> 00:44:07,440 Speaker 1: a dough that has fawns, whether you know there's no 818 00:44:07,520 --> 00:44:11,440 Speaker 1: biological reason not to, they just don't want those spawns 819 00:44:11,480 --> 00:44:13,439 Speaker 1: to stay there. And I get it. So if that's 820 00:44:13,440 --> 00:44:15,399 Speaker 1: the case, you know you can pass on that one. 821 00:44:15,600 --> 00:44:18,440 Speaker 1: But it makes no difference to me if a dough 822 00:44:18,480 --> 00:44:20,640 Speaker 1: comes under my stand and has fawns, whether if there's 823 00:44:20,680 --> 00:44:23,080 Speaker 1: no spots and I can get a good shot at 824 00:44:23,080 --> 00:44:27,680 Speaker 1: that dough, I'm taking it. Yeah, Okay. I feel like 825 00:44:27,719 --> 00:44:30,880 Speaker 1: that covers the top level questions that I get at 826 00:44:30,960 --> 00:44:32,960 Speaker 1: least a lot when it comes to should you take 827 00:44:32,960 --> 00:44:35,160 Speaker 1: a dough? Should you not? When should you? When should 828 00:44:35,160 --> 00:44:38,200 Speaker 1: you not so hopefully that arms folks are a little 829 00:44:38,200 --> 00:44:40,360 Speaker 1: bit more information to go out there this coming season 830 00:44:40,440 --> 00:44:43,920 Speaker 1: and you know, get after it. And like you said earlier, kid, 831 00:44:44,400 --> 00:44:49,120 Speaker 1: I mean I've yet, I've never once not been able 832 00:44:49,120 --> 00:44:52,000 Speaker 1: to find a home for a deer that I harvested. 833 00:44:52,239 --> 00:44:54,359 Speaker 1: There's there's any time I had more than I needed 834 00:44:54,360 --> 00:44:57,759 Speaker 1: in my freezer. There's always been someone who would like 835 00:44:57,880 --> 00:45:00,440 Speaker 1: that deer, who would like to have that meat. Um, 836 00:45:00,480 --> 00:45:02,160 Speaker 1: it's it's such a great thing to be able to 837 00:45:02,160 --> 00:45:04,600 Speaker 1: share with people. And like you said, almost every state 838 00:45:04,719 --> 00:45:07,320 Speaker 1: has a donation program now, but if you ask around 839 00:45:07,320 --> 00:45:10,399 Speaker 1: a friends and family, it's often very easy to find 840 00:45:10,440 --> 00:45:12,080 Speaker 1: someone who could use that meat just to within your 841 00:45:12,080 --> 00:45:14,680 Speaker 1: own network too. So there's there's lots of opportunities to 842 00:45:14,680 --> 00:45:17,759 Speaker 1: do good both for the herd, for the landscape, and 843 00:45:17,840 --> 00:45:20,080 Speaker 1: for people who could use that meat. So it's a 844 00:45:20,080 --> 00:45:24,080 Speaker 1: it's a win win win as far as I'm concerned. No, 845 00:45:24,280 --> 00:45:26,960 Speaker 1: I agree. There's data in the US the shows somewhere 846 00:45:27,000 --> 00:45:30,799 Speaker 1: around one in seven households or food insecure. I mean 847 00:45:31,080 --> 00:45:33,879 Speaker 1: they don't have enough protein. So so think about that 848 00:45:34,360 --> 00:45:36,480 Speaker 1: one out of seven. So how many is that just 849 00:45:36,560 --> 00:45:40,120 Speaker 1: in your neighborhood? So Yeah, it's a great way for 850 00:45:40,239 --> 00:45:44,080 Speaker 1: hunters to provide food to families who need it. And uh, 851 00:45:44,120 --> 00:45:46,640 Speaker 1: you know it never helps to you know to uh 852 00:45:47,120 --> 00:45:49,840 Speaker 1: or never hurts. I guess that to help our public image. 853 00:45:49,880 --> 00:45:53,360 Speaker 1: So hunters are already providing a free ecological service to 854 00:45:53,400 --> 00:45:56,959 Speaker 1: society by you know, managing deer by shooting deer. So 855 00:45:57,239 --> 00:45:59,640 Speaker 1: you know, if we can add to that by helping 856 00:45:59,680 --> 00:46:03,200 Speaker 1: see folks, you know who who needs some protein, that's 857 00:46:03,200 --> 00:46:06,840 Speaker 1: a pretty cool place to be. Yeah. So so pivoting 858 00:46:06,880 --> 00:46:10,240 Speaker 1: a little bit here, Kip. There was another UM report 859 00:46:10,400 --> 00:46:13,000 Speaker 1: or kind of topic you guys took a look at 860 00:46:13,080 --> 00:46:16,359 Speaker 1: within the report which was kind of a deep dive 861 00:46:16,480 --> 00:46:21,400 Speaker 1: into the breakdown of where folks were killing deer private 862 00:46:21,560 --> 00:46:25,600 Speaker 1: versus public And I believe the number was that nine 863 00:46:25,640 --> 00:46:28,880 Speaker 1: out of ten deer killed in America were killed on 864 00:46:29,120 --> 00:46:32,920 Speaker 1: private land versus public And there's been a lot of talk, 865 00:46:33,000 --> 00:46:35,720 Speaker 1: you know, around this public land versus private land topic, 866 00:46:36,239 --> 00:46:41,080 Speaker 1: whether it be how we invest our dollars or advocacy 867 00:46:41,160 --> 00:46:46,160 Speaker 1: efforts or our time and energy. What what was your 868 00:46:46,160 --> 00:46:49,480 Speaker 1: guys takeaway from that when you saw that data come 869 00:46:49,560 --> 00:46:52,239 Speaker 1: rolling in that this vast majority of the deer are 870 00:46:52,320 --> 00:46:54,160 Speaker 1: being killed still on private land. What does that tell you? 871 00:46:54,200 --> 00:46:56,320 Speaker 1: What do you what do you garner from that? What 872 00:46:56,600 --> 00:46:59,799 Speaker 1: should we be thinking about too? Yeah, you know what 873 00:47:01,280 --> 00:47:03,200 Speaker 1: if you just take a look at public land in 874 00:47:03,239 --> 00:47:05,759 Speaker 1: the United States, we were very lucky, and you know 875 00:47:05,800 --> 00:47:08,719 Speaker 1: that we have over six hundred million acres, so just 876 00:47:08,800 --> 00:47:11,200 Speaker 1: looking at anything, man, this is great, and there's a 877 00:47:11,239 --> 00:47:14,600 Speaker 1: lot of people that couldn't hunt if it wasn't public land. However, 878 00:47:15,080 --> 00:47:17,520 Speaker 1: about ninety percent of that public land is in the 879 00:47:17,520 --> 00:47:21,520 Speaker 1: western US, whereas you know, about ninety percent of the 880 00:47:21,560 --> 00:47:24,920 Speaker 1: white tails are east of the Rocky Mountains, so you 881 00:47:24,960 --> 00:47:28,239 Speaker 1: know they're in the eastern two thirds. So where we 882 00:47:28,280 --> 00:47:30,839 Speaker 1: have the most of our public land doesn't really match 883 00:47:30,960 --> 00:47:33,040 Speaker 1: up with where our white tails are or where most 884 00:47:33,040 --> 00:47:36,560 Speaker 1: of our hunters are. So most zero managers, I think 885 00:47:36,640 --> 00:47:40,720 Speaker 1: suspected that the majority of white tails shop are taken 886 00:47:40,760 --> 00:47:43,360 Speaker 1: on private land, but we never had a number until 887 00:47:43,400 --> 00:47:46,360 Speaker 1: this year. So as we start looking at that, we realized, 888 00:47:46,400 --> 00:47:49,080 Speaker 1: and what you said is correct, it's nearly nine out 889 00:47:49,080 --> 00:47:51,279 Speaker 1: of every ten white tails. It actually came out at 890 00:47:51,360 --> 00:47:54,200 Speaker 1: eighty eight percent of all the white tails taken, and 891 00:47:54,480 --> 00:47:57,440 Speaker 1: we shoot about six million white tails a year, so 892 00:47:57,680 --> 00:48:00,680 Speaker 1: eighty eight percent of those are taken on private land. 893 00:48:01,040 --> 00:48:03,120 Speaker 1: So I knew the number would be high, but I 894 00:48:03,120 --> 00:48:06,560 Speaker 1: didn't realize it would be quite that high. Yeah, that's uh, 895 00:48:07,040 --> 00:48:09,800 Speaker 1: that's pretty stark. So what do you think that indicates, 896 00:48:09,880 --> 00:48:12,959 Speaker 1: Kip does that? Is that is that a function of 897 00:48:13,600 --> 00:48:16,680 Speaker 1: how many people are honey on private versus hunting on 898 00:48:16,760 --> 00:48:18,600 Speaker 1: public Or is that a function of how much more 899 00:48:18,640 --> 00:48:23,440 Speaker 1: productive the private lands are than the public. I think 900 00:48:23,440 --> 00:48:25,440 Speaker 1: that's a little bit of both. And uh, And if 901 00:48:25,440 --> 00:48:28,440 Speaker 1: you look at the eastern two thirds of the US, 902 00:48:28,440 --> 00:48:35,480 Speaker 1: you know, states range anywhere from fifty some percent private 903 00:48:35,560 --> 00:48:39,440 Speaker 1: land up to like nine percent private landland like in Texas, 904 00:48:39,440 --> 00:48:41,480 Speaker 1: and obviously a lot of deer hunters in Texas and 905 00:48:41,480 --> 00:48:45,040 Speaker 1: a lot of land, so there's a lot more opportunity 906 00:48:45,520 --> 00:48:48,320 Speaker 1: to hunt private land for you know, all the hunters 907 00:48:48,320 --> 00:48:50,880 Speaker 1: in general. So there's a lot of private land that 908 00:48:50,920 --> 00:48:54,840 Speaker 1: we have. But then also you just have so much 909 00:48:54,880 --> 00:48:59,000 Speaker 1: more work over the last two decades, work work just 910 00:48:59,239 --> 00:49:03,200 Speaker 1: being occurred private land to enhance habitat for deer. So 911 00:49:03,719 --> 00:49:06,040 Speaker 1: take right beside your house or right beside my house. 912 00:49:06,280 --> 00:49:10,560 Speaker 1: You take a landowner that's doing food, but he's you know, 913 00:49:10,600 --> 00:49:12,920 Speaker 1: has a bunch of early sea or early successional vegetation. 914 00:49:13,000 --> 00:49:15,839 Speaker 1: They're working in the woods, even if rate next door 915 00:49:15,920 --> 00:49:19,279 Speaker 1: is private land and it's all over mature hardwood. For us, 916 00:49:19,320 --> 00:49:22,080 Speaker 1: you know, with nothing underneath, you're going to have more 917 00:49:22,120 --> 00:49:25,880 Speaker 1: deer on that private landowner. You know, that's really getting engaged. 918 00:49:26,160 --> 00:49:29,080 Speaker 1: So I think we have more opportunity on private land 919 00:49:29,120 --> 00:49:31,080 Speaker 1: because there's so much more of it in the eastern 920 00:49:31,080 --> 00:49:33,560 Speaker 1: two thirds of the US, and then you just have 921 00:49:33,800 --> 00:49:36,120 Speaker 1: so much more work growing on. This is not a 922 00:49:36,160 --> 00:49:38,759 Speaker 1: knock at all on our state wilife agencies or our 923 00:49:38,800 --> 00:49:42,560 Speaker 1: federal agencies relative to habitat management that they're doing. But 924 00:49:42,960 --> 00:49:45,840 Speaker 1: we all know the stories like with the fishing or 925 00:49:45,840 --> 00:49:49,160 Speaker 1: the Forest Service, that you can't cut on forests, you know, 926 00:49:49,320 --> 00:49:53,320 Speaker 1: because of the political reasons, and so that the private 927 00:49:53,360 --> 00:49:57,120 Speaker 1: landers have so much more flexibility relative to what they 928 00:49:57,160 --> 00:50:01,080 Speaker 1: can do to enhance habitat, specifically for dear, and we're 929 00:50:01,120 --> 00:50:03,759 Speaker 1: seeing it. I know there was a stat out of 930 00:50:03,760 --> 00:50:07,000 Speaker 1: the Southeast Dear Partnership this past year that a deer 931 00:50:07,040 --> 00:50:10,960 Speaker 1: hunters in the southeast, so the southeastern US, they spend 932 00:50:11,000 --> 00:50:14,239 Speaker 1: about one hundred and eighty three million dollars a year 933 00:50:14,280 --> 00:50:18,040 Speaker 1: on wildlife plannings. Wow, that's a lot of money. That's 934 00:50:18,080 --> 00:50:21,279 Speaker 1: a lot of money on food plots and fruit tree 935 00:50:21,320 --> 00:50:25,400 Speaker 1: plannings and other things specifically for deer hunting. So I 936 00:50:25,440 --> 00:50:28,319 Speaker 1: think that just highlights all of this really good work 937 00:50:28,360 --> 00:50:31,000 Speaker 1: that's going on on private land to make things better 938 00:50:31,040 --> 00:50:34,120 Speaker 1: for deer. Yeah, and when I look at that, I 939 00:50:34,160 --> 00:50:38,000 Speaker 1: just see this huge opportunity that we have. You know, 940 00:50:38,000 --> 00:50:40,359 Speaker 1: it's really not really well, yeah, I would say it's 941 00:50:40,360 --> 00:50:44,120 Speaker 1: really hard. It's it's pretty darn hard for the average 942 00:50:44,200 --> 00:50:48,680 Speaker 1: deer hunter to influence what happens on public lands as 943 00:50:48,719 --> 00:50:52,600 Speaker 1: far as you know, conservation work, habitat work, improving that 944 00:50:52,680 --> 00:50:56,560 Speaker 1: habitat for wildlife, it's pretty darn hard. It requires a 945 00:50:56,560 --> 00:50:58,560 Speaker 1: whole lot of different layers. There's a lot of cooks 946 00:50:58,560 --> 00:51:01,760 Speaker 1: in that kitchen to make good things happen on those acres, 947 00:51:02,000 --> 00:51:04,719 Speaker 1: very very important acres, like you said, But it's it's 948 00:51:04,800 --> 00:51:08,040 Speaker 1: hard and slower to make positive changes there. But when 949 00:51:08,040 --> 00:51:11,759 Speaker 1: you like as you said, on these private lands, there 950 00:51:11,840 --> 00:51:14,200 Speaker 1: is this huge opportunity we have not only to improve 951 00:51:14,200 --> 00:51:16,799 Speaker 1: our deer hunting, but really to address a lot of 952 00:51:16,840 --> 00:51:21,080 Speaker 1: different wildlife issues. You look at any of these species 953 00:51:21,080 --> 00:51:23,560 Speaker 1: that are not doing as well as deer like turkeys, 954 00:51:23,680 --> 00:51:29,920 Speaker 1: or songbirds, upland birds, pollinators. We have a huge, huge 955 00:51:29,960 --> 00:51:33,879 Speaker 1: footprint across the country managed by hunters where we can 956 00:51:33,920 --> 00:51:36,200 Speaker 1: just go fix the problem ourselves. In many ways, we 957 00:51:36,200 --> 00:51:38,040 Speaker 1: don't need to wait for the government. We don't need 958 00:51:38,080 --> 00:51:40,279 Speaker 1: to wait for some new law. We could just take 959 00:51:40,320 --> 00:51:43,839 Speaker 1: matters into our own hands. Because we have influence over 960 00:51:43,880 --> 00:51:46,160 Speaker 1: so many of these private acres that are so important. 961 00:51:47,760 --> 00:51:50,160 Speaker 1: I just see it as this like superpower that we 962 00:51:50,239 --> 00:51:53,920 Speaker 1: have compared to almost anyone in the country. We as 963 00:51:53,960 --> 00:51:58,440 Speaker 1: a hunting community, have you prioritized owning or managing land, 964 00:51:58,760 --> 00:52:00,520 Speaker 1: and we can use it for the great are good, 965 00:52:00,760 --> 00:52:03,319 Speaker 1: which is which is kind of exciting to me. Um. 966 00:52:04,120 --> 00:52:08,319 Speaker 1: I mean, does that make Does that resonate? It does? 967 00:52:08,480 --> 00:52:10,640 Speaker 1: And I agree with that. And you know, and this 968 00:52:10,719 --> 00:52:13,160 Speaker 1: is not to diminish the public lands that we have 969 00:52:13,480 --> 00:52:16,000 Speaker 1: or the good work on public lands by any means. 970 00:52:16,040 --> 00:52:18,560 Speaker 1: We certainly need more public lands than the east, and 971 00:52:18,680 --> 00:52:20,800 Speaker 1: we need to do a better job manage and habitat 972 00:52:20,840 --> 00:52:23,560 Speaker 1: than a bunch of our public lands. But it just 973 00:52:23,640 --> 00:52:27,359 Speaker 1: highlights the importance of these private holdings and the cool 974 00:52:27,440 --> 00:52:31,800 Speaker 1: thing about you know, deer driving this system. If people 975 00:52:31,800 --> 00:52:34,040 Speaker 1: are doing a good work for deer, then all those 976 00:52:34,080 --> 00:52:36,879 Speaker 1: other wildife species are benefiting as well. You know. Young 977 00:52:37,000 --> 00:52:40,520 Speaker 1: forests you know are awesome for grouse and woodcock, you 978 00:52:40,560 --> 00:52:44,360 Speaker 1: know the pollinators that need to help. Early successful vegetation 979 00:52:44,480 --> 00:52:47,600 Speaker 1: is perfect for butterflies and bees and you know those 980 00:52:47,640 --> 00:52:51,759 Speaker 1: grassland birds. And so it's pretty cool that in the 981 00:52:51,840 --> 00:52:53,920 Speaker 1: name of deer, and even though the deer is kind 982 00:52:53,920 --> 00:52:56,319 Speaker 1: of the carrots getting to stick, there are so many 983 00:52:56,360 --> 00:52:59,759 Speaker 1: other wildlife species benefiting from this good work. Um. That's 984 00:52:59,800 --> 00:53:02,760 Speaker 1: one of the reasons I'm so proud through the NDA, 985 00:53:02,800 --> 00:53:04,960 Speaker 1: you know, of all of the habitat enhancement of stuff 986 00:53:04,960 --> 00:53:07,560 Speaker 1: that we teach, you know, And I'm proud to be 987 00:53:07,640 --> 00:53:09,719 Speaker 1: from a deer hunter and to know that deer hunters 988 00:53:09,719 --> 00:53:13,560 Speaker 1: are driving this whole system. And it is amazing the 989 00:53:13,640 --> 00:53:16,320 Speaker 1: number of acres that are being impacted, you know, through 990 00:53:16,640 --> 00:53:19,839 Speaker 1: work to make things better for deer and maybe see 991 00:53:19,880 --> 00:53:21,600 Speaker 1: a few more deer or kill a bigger buck in 992 00:53:21,640 --> 00:53:38,280 Speaker 1: the ball. Yeah, there's a tremendous ripple effect. I'm curious. 993 00:53:38,360 --> 00:53:40,920 Speaker 1: I've looked into this and I've tried to pull the numbers, 994 00:53:41,080 --> 00:53:43,400 Speaker 1: and I'm curious if you know of any more recent 995 00:53:43,480 --> 00:53:46,400 Speaker 1: numbers or more built out. But but I found a 996 00:53:46,440 --> 00:53:48,680 Speaker 1: report from you guys back in two thousand and nine 997 00:53:49,280 --> 00:53:52,480 Speaker 1: that stated back then, just within the membership of what 998 00:53:52,520 --> 00:53:55,760 Speaker 1: was done the QDMA, they were about thirteen million acres 999 00:53:55,760 --> 00:53:58,200 Speaker 1: of land owned for hunting back in two thousand and nine. 1000 00:53:59,000 --> 00:54:01,760 Speaker 1: And then I also saw a US Fish and Wildlife 1001 00:54:01,760 --> 00:54:04,839 Speaker 1: Service estimate that said that I think this was maybe 1002 00:54:04,880 --> 00:54:08,440 Speaker 1: a twenty eighteen report on this one. I think they 1003 00:54:08,440 --> 00:54:11,320 Speaker 1: said that there was approximately four hundred and forty million 1004 00:54:11,360 --> 00:54:14,680 Speaker 1: acres of private land that was either leased or owned 1005 00:54:14,920 --> 00:54:19,520 Speaker 1: for wildlife dependent recreation, which I think from what as 1006 00:54:19,600 --> 00:54:23,080 Speaker 1: I understand it, that would mostly be hunting. Have you 1007 00:54:23,120 --> 00:54:26,160 Speaker 1: seen any other data like that that quantifies, you know, 1008 00:54:26,239 --> 00:54:29,080 Speaker 1: what our footprint is out there as far as land 1009 00:54:29,120 --> 00:54:31,799 Speaker 1: managed by hunters or by deer hunters, or anything like 1010 00:54:31,840 --> 00:54:33,719 Speaker 1: that that could kind of get a sense of the 1011 00:54:33,760 --> 00:54:37,760 Speaker 1: scalt that opportunity. Yeah, I have not seen an updated 1012 00:54:38,040 --> 00:54:42,040 Speaker 1: Fish and Wildife Service number four that, but yes, I 1013 00:54:42,080 --> 00:54:45,880 Speaker 1: think that is mostly for hunting. Somewhere around eighty percent 1014 00:54:45,920 --> 00:54:48,640 Speaker 1: of all hunters in the US are deer hunters, so 1015 00:54:48,760 --> 00:54:51,520 Speaker 1: the vast majority of that would be for deer hunting. 1016 00:54:52,360 --> 00:54:55,000 Speaker 1: I do know that with our Deer Steward program. Of 1017 00:54:55,080 --> 00:54:58,680 Speaker 1: the classes that we teach, we've been teaching them since 1018 00:54:58,680 --> 00:55:02,520 Speaker 1: two thousand and nine UM and since then, we measure 1019 00:55:02,600 --> 00:55:05,600 Speaker 1: impact of those classes. You know, everybody that comes through, 1020 00:55:06,000 --> 00:55:08,480 Speaker 1: you know, how many acres do you own or manage? 1021 00:55:08,480 --> 00:55:10,440 Speaker 1: And a lot of people that take that don't own 1022 00:55:10,480 --> 00:55:13,480 Speaker 1: any But we've talked those to a lot of state 1023 00:55:13,480 --> 00:55:17,719 Speaker 1: wildlife agencies and deer managers. So I know that we 1024 00:55:18,040 --> 00:55:21,440 Speaker 1: alone folks have come through our Deers to a program 1025 00:55:21,520 --> 00:55:25,040 Speaker 1: have impacted over fifteen million acres of land, so you know, 1026 00:55:25,080 --> 00:55:28,000 Speaker 1: and that's you know, there's like four thousand graduates in that, 1027 00:55:28,160 --> 00:55:30,759 Speaker 1: so four thousand people that have come through one of 1028 00:55:30,760 --> 00:55:34,360 Speaker 1: our classes, that many acres. So think about all of 1029 00:55:34,640 --> 00:55:36,759 Speaker 1: the others out there, you know, that are adding into 1030 00:55:36,800 --> 00:55:39,400 Speaker 1: this as well. I mean, it's just a huge footprint 1031 00:55:39,440 --> 00:55:42,399 Speaker 1: of wildlife habitat across the country. So you know, it's 1032 00:55:42,440 --> 00:55:45,399 Speaker 1: no wonder deer are doing so good and in so 1033 00:55:45,440 --> 00:55:48,400 Speaker 1: many places, and you know, and other other wildie species 1034 00:55:48,440 --> 00:55:51,640 Speaker 1: are strong as well. So it's there's there's a lot 1035 00:55:51,760 --> 00:55:54,239 Speaker 1: being done in the name of wildlife, and that's one 1036 00:55:54,280 --> 00:55:56,319 Speaker 1: of the things that that irritates me. You know when 1037 00:55:56,400 --> 00:55:59,479 Speaker 1: non hunters who don't understand this part, you know, start 1038 00:55:59,480 --> 00:56:02,719 Speaker 1: attacking hunters for for certain things. You know, even if 1039 00:56:02,760 --> 00:56:04,800 Speaker 1: you don't choose a deer hunt, you know, that's fine 1040 00:56:04,840 --> 00:56:07,400 Speaker 1: if you don't want to, but man at least recognize, 1041 00:56:07,440 --> 00:56:09,560 Speaker 1: you know, all of the services that a deer hunter 1042 00:56:09,600 --> 00:56:12,440 Speaker 1: is providing. And if you like feeding those birds, please 1043 00:56:12,480 --> 00:56:15,239 Speaker 1: recognize that a deer hunter is largely responsible for those 1044 00:56:15,280 --> 00:56:18,439 Speaker 1: songbirds being alive and you know, being able to come 1045 00:56:18,480 --> 00:56:22,160 Speaker 1: to your window. So that's that's one thing that as hunters, 1046 00:56:22,160 --> 00:56:24,080 Speaker 1: we need to do a better job telling that story, 1047 00:56:24,440 --> 00:56:26,440 Speaker 1: you know, because it's about way more than you know, 1048 00:56:26,520 --> 00:56:28,719 Speaker 1: just pulling the trigger in the fall if you're a 1049 00:56:28,719 --> 00:56:32,080 Speaker 1: deer hunter. Yeah, that's uh, that's that's so true. And 1050 00:56:33,200 --> 00:56:36,360 Speaker 1: what a what an incredible you know, ripple effect you 1051 00:56:36,400 --> 00:56:38,600 Speaker 1: guys have had with those dear Steward courses. That that 1052 00:56:38,719 --> 00:56:42,959 Speaker 1: number at fifteen million, that's that's wild um. And I guess, 1053 00:56:43,000 --> 00:56:45,120 Speaker 1: you know, I guess one last thing on this topic 1054 00:56:45,560 --> 00:56:51,680 Speaker 1: is recognizing the importance of these private lands to conservation. Like, 1055 00:56:51,760 --> 00:56:55,320 Speaker 1: if we want to impact wildlife populations, you can't ignore 1056 00:56:55,320 --> 00:56:58,560 Speaker 1: private lands. We've we've kind of demonstrated that now, I 1057 00:56:58,560 --> 00:57:01,160 Speaker 1: think when we've looked at the scale of these acres 1058 00:57:01,160 --> 00:57:03,319 Speaker 1: and how much of the wildlife is on these private lands, 1059 00:57:03,320 --> 00:57:05,359 Speaker 1: so if we're gonna do anything good for him, it's 1060 00:57:05,400 --> 00:57:07,359 Speaker 1: got to happen on private lands just as much, if 1061 00:57:07,400 --> 00:57:10,160 Speaker 1: not more so, than on public I think that just 1062 00:57:10,280 --> 00:57:15,239 Speaker 1: makes it even more obvious how important private land conservation 1063 00:57:15,360 --> 00:57:19,920 Speaker 1: related programs and funding is too, which which all brings 1064 00:57:19,960 --> 00:57:23,200 Speaker 1: me back to the upcoming Farm Bill, which will be 1065 00:57:23,840 --> 00:57:27,680 Speaker 1: you know, being kind of hashed out over the coming 1066 00:57:27,680 --> 00:57:30,600 Speaker 1: months leading into this fall for the twenty twenty three 1067 00:57:30,640 --> 00:57:33,280 Speaker 1: Farm Bill, which which has so many of these private 1068 00:57:33,360 --> 00:57:38,240 Speaker 1: land conservation related issues and funding mechanisms and programs as 1069 00:57:38,280 --> 00:57:41,000 Speaker 1: part of that. We're actually kept going to have a 1070 00:57:41,040 --> 00:57:44,080 Speaker 1: full deep dive episode coming up this month on the 1071 00:57:44,120 --> 00:57:47,240 Speaker 1: farm bill. But I'm just curious if there's anything from 1072 00:57:47,240 --> 00:57:50,760 Speaker 1: your perspective as part of the NDA that you guys 1073 00:57:51,200 --> 00:57:54,320 Speaker 1: at the organization particularly want us deer hunters thinking about 1074 00:57:54,360 --> 00:57:56,640 Speaker 1: when it comes to this upcoming version of the farm bills, 1075 00:57:56,720 --> 00:57:59,040 Speaker 1: or anything we should know or that we should be 1076 00:57:59,480 --> 00:58:02,200 Speaker 1: talking to. You are representatives and senators about to make 1077 00:58:02,240 --> 00:58:05,240 Speaker 1: sure that a good for deer and good for wildlife 1078 00:58:05,440 --> 00:58:10,760 Speaker 1: version of the farm billets gets signed and improved this year. Well, 1079 00:58:10,800 --> 00:58:14,120 Speaker 1: I think one thing it's important for hunters and state 1080 00:58:14,120 --> 00:58:18,400 Speaker 1: wildlife agencies to realize this just knowing homedy deer are 1081 00:58:18,440 --> 00:58:21,000 Speaker 1: shot on public I'm sorry, I'm private land and the 1082 00:58:21,040 --> 00:58:23,960 Speaker 1: importance of that. There are some states that have you know, 1083 00:58:24,080 --> 00:58:27,040 Speaker 1: private land programs. Missouri is a perfect example. You know, 1084 00:58:27,080 --> 00:58:30,240 Speaker 1: they have a bunch of state Wildlife agency biologists that 1085 00:58:30,240 --> 00:58:33,880 Speaker 1: are working on research and others on public land or 1086 00:58:33,880 --> 00:58:35,920 Speaker 1: you know, everything in the state. But then they have 1087 00:58:36,000 --> 00:58:39,840 Speaker 1: a specific private lands division to work with private landers 1088 00:58:39,880 --> 00:58:43,280 Speaker 1: to help them enhance habitat, to help them manage deer, etc. 1089 00:58:43,960 --> 00:58:46,680 Speaker 1: You know. And there are some states that they have 1090 00:58:46,840 --> 00:58:50,320 Speaker 1: their staff, you know, the statewide staff, and you know 1091 00:58:50,440 --> 00:58:53,600 Speaker 1: there's no preference at all given to private land. I 1092 00:58:53,640 --> 00:58:55,680 Speaker 1: think that we are coming into a day and age, 1093 00:58:55,720 --> 00:58:59,439 Speaker 1: well we need to recognize just how important private land 1094 00:58:59,520 --> 00:59:02,360 Speaker 1: management is and that I would love to see every 1095 00:59:02,400 --> 00:59:05,480 Speaker 1: state wildlife agency have a staff that works specifically with 1096 00:59:05,600 --> 00:59:08,480 Speaker 1: private landowners. I think the Farmville is a great way 1097 00:59:08,480 --> 00:59:11,160 Speaker 1: to do that. Look at all of the pheasants forever 1098 00:59:11,320 --> 00:59:15,360 Speaker 1: Farmville biologists that help private landowners enhance habitat, you know, 1099 00:59:15,400 --> 00:59:19,440 Speaker 1: for upland birds. I think that there's a synonym with 1100 00:59:19,640 --> 00:59:24,520 Speaker 1: deer that we should be taken advantage of. Certainly, not 1101 00:59:24,520 --> 00:59:27,160 Speaker 1: not to take away anything from other duties of our 1102 00:59:27,200 --> 00:59:29,720 Speaker 1: of our state agencies, but I think there are some 1103 00:59:29,800 --> 00:59:32,960 Speaker 1: that feel that it's wrong to just focus on private lands. 1104 00:59:33,000 --> 00:59:36,200 Speaker 1: And I think we have enough data now on deer harvests, 1105 00:59:36,520 --> 00:59:39,200 Speaker 1: deer hunter numbers that are that are hunting our private land. 1106 00:59:39,280 --> 00:59:42,680 Speaker 1: That's a big deal. Um, there's twenty nine states that 1107 00:59:42,720 --> 00:59:46,120 Speaker 1: have a private land access program, so there's a room 1108 00:59:46,160 --> 00:59:48,440 Speaker 1: to grow. That should be all of our states, you know, 1109 00:59:48,520 --> 00:59:52,000 Speaker 1: have that where the state agency works specifically with landowners 1110 00:59:52,040 --> 00:59:54,760 Speaker 1: to to get some all those acres into private land access. 1111 00:59:55,120 --> 00:59:56,880 Speaker 1: And I think we should have a staff at the 1112 00:59:56,920 --> 01:00:00,400 Speaker 1: state agency helping those private landowners enhands that have to 1113 01:00:00,400 --> 01:00:02,440 Speaker 1: make it even better for for deer and other wildlife. 1114 01:00:02,680 --> 01:00:04,640 Speaker 1: That's something that twenty years ago would have been not 1115 01:00:04,720 --> 01:00:07,920 Speaker 1: even discussed. Ten years ago they start to discuss it, 1116 01:00:07,960 --> 01:00:10,480 Speaker 1: but yeah, maybe maybe not. I think today this is 1117 01:00:10,480 --> 01:00:12,920 Speaker 1: a no brainer that should be happening on all these 1118 01:00:12,920 --> 01:00:15,760 Speaker 1: states that have white tails. Yeah, that that just makes 1119 01:00:15,760 --> 01:00:18,680 Speaker 1: all the sense in the world, And it's it's great 1120 01:00:18,720 --> 01:00:21,160 Speaker 1: that there are those types of things starting to happen. Though, 1121 01:00:22,800 --> 01:00:27,240 Speaker 1: what else, Kip when you look at this report zooming 1122 01:00:27,240 --> 01:00:28,840 Speaker 1: back out a little bit, when we look at the 1123 01:00:28,840 --> 01:00:31,040 Speaker 1: twenty three edition of the report, we've we've kind of 1124 01:00:31,080 --> 01:00:33,360 Speaker 1: covered the private land versus public land thing pretty well. 1125 01:00:33,400 --> 01:00:36,440 Speaker 1: We covered the nagging injury of CWD. We took a 1126 01:00:36,480 --> 01:00:39,040 Speaker 1: deep dive into the dough harvest and the importance of 1127 01:00:39,040 --> 01:00:43,080 Speaker 1: all that. Is there any other big takeaway here that 1128 01:00:43,200 --> 01:00:46,680 Speaker 1: we really would be remiss if we didn't cover. When 1129 01:00:46,720 --> 01:00:48,640 Speaker 1: you look at the important stuff that you touched on 1130 01:00:48,760 --> 01:00:53,080 Speaker 1: that report, I think it's important for folks to know 1131 01:00:53,640 --> 01:00:56,880 Speaker 1: just how many hunters we have out there. We know 1132 01:00:57,080 --> 01:01:00,160 Speaker 1: that there are somewhere between nine and eleven million year 1133 01:01:00,240 --> 01:01:03,880 Speaker 1: hunters each year in the US. There's more deer hunters 1134 01:01:03,880 --> 01:01:05,440 Speaker 1: than that if you take a look at the number 1135 01:01:05,440 --> 01:01:08,360 Speaker 1: that have hunded at least once within the last five years. 1136 01:01:08,880 --> 01:01:13,120 Speaker 1: But there's any given here somewhere around ten million deer hunters. 1137 01:01:13,160 --> 01:01:17,040 Speaker 1: And we often fight amongst the different fractions of when 1138 01:01:17,080 --> 01:01:20,640 Speaker 1: we hunt deer. So you know, we know that about 1139 01:01:20,640 --> 01:01:23,439 Speaker 1: twenty two percent of all of our hunters deer hunters. 1140 01:01:23,480 --> 01:01:26,840 Speaker 1: I'm sorry, we'll hunt with a muzzleloader about twice that 1141 01:01:26,880 --> 01:01:30,160 Speaker 1: many hunt with a bow or crossbow, so it's about 1142 01:01:30,240 --> 01:01:32,880 Speaker 1: and about twice that many help with a firearms. So 1143 01:01:33,640 --> 01:01:35,840 Speaker 1: what we have seen with a lot of expanded archery 1144 01:01:35,880 --> 01:01:40,439 Speaker 1: seasons over the past decade and expanded the muzzleoader opportunities, 1145 01:01:40,920 --> 01:01:43,920 Speaker 1: we really haven't increased the deer harvest much. We just 1146 01:01:44,000 --> 01:01:48,040 Speaker 1: kind of have made it occur in a larger portion 1147 01:01:48,120 --> 01:01:50,200 Speaker 1: of our deer season. You know, where so many states 1148 01:01:50,240 --> 01:01:53,480 Speaker 1: the vast majority occurred with the firearms. Now we've seen 1149 01:01:53,520 --> 01:01:55,320 Speaker 1: about the same number shot, but a lot of them 1150 01:01:55,320 --> 01:01:58,000 Speaker 1: are shot earlier in the year. You know, particularly with 1151 01:01:58,040 --> 01:02:01,160 Speaker 1: the use of crossbow. Some hunters get all upset about that. 1152 01:02:01,440 --> 01:02:04,120 Speaker 1: I'm thinking, man, thanks for hunting, being a hunter and 1153 01:02:04,200 --> 01:02:07,600 Speaker 1: continuing to hunt. So you know, I'm glad that we 1154 01:02:07,920 --> 01:02:11,040 Speaker 1: see more firearms hunters also hunting with a bow or 1155 01:02:11,040 --> 01:02:13,920 Speaker 1: also hunting with a muslums. I don't think that dilutes 1156 01:02:14,000 --> 01:02:15,880 Speaker 1: us at all, or you know, I think that's a 1157 01:02:15,960 --> 01:02:18,280 Speaker 1: good thing, that we're just taking advantage of more of 1158 01:02:18,320 --> 01:02:21,280 Speaker 1: the opportunities. I would much rather see somebody pick up 1159 01:02:21,560 --> 01:02:24,960 Speaker 1: a bow or a crossbow and hunted October than not 1160 01:02:25,080 --> 01:02:27,720 Speaker 1: hunt at all. You know, in November or December, so 1161 01:02:28,400 --> 01:02:32,560 Speaker 1: I think just known when those numbers are, letting hunters see, 1162 01:02:32,640 --> 01:02:35,040 Speaker 1: you know, like what the state by state breakdowns you know, 1163 01:02:35,120 --> 01:02:38,680 Speaker 1: are for the different categories. I think that's important, and 1164 01:02:38,800 --> 01:02:41,720 Speaker 1: so certainly being able to monitor them and watch how 1165 01:02:41,760 --> 01:02:45,600 Speaker 1: that changes over time, I think is good for deer 1166 01:02:45,640 --> 01:02:49,880 Speaker 1: management and good for hunters. That's a really really important 1167 01:02:49,920 --> 01:02:54,400 Speaker 1: topic and great point. And I think, so I want 1168 01:02:54,440 --> 01:02:56,000 Speaker 1: you to say this one more time to make sure 1169 01:02:56,040 --> 01:02:58,280 Speaker 1: that I heard it right and everybody else heard it right. 1170 01:02:58,680 --> 01:03:01,440 Speaker 1: Are you telling me that when state opens a crossbow 1171 01:03:01,480 --> 01:03:05,600 Speaker 1: season that they open archery to being able owed to 1172 01:03:05,680 --> 01:03:08,400 Speaker 1: use excuse me, to use crossbows during archer season. When 1173 01:03:08,440 --> 01:03:12,000 Speaker 1: that happens, that's not devastating and changing the deer population 1174 01:03:12,040 --> 01:03:15,120 Speaker 1: in the herd dynamics and the number of deer being killed. 1175 01:03:15,320 --> 01:03:18,840 Speaker 1: Is that what you're saying? That is correct? And we've 1176 01:03:18,880 --> 01:03:22,200 Speaker 1: looked at all the states that have, you know, crossbow seasons, 1177 01:03:22,240 --> 01:03:26,280 Speaker 1: and so there's no state that has had to reduce 1178 01:03:26,360 --> 01:03:30,360 Speaker 1: harvest opportunity once they've opened crossbows. You know, they're not 1179 01:03:30,480 --> 01:03:34,040 Speaker 1: devastating the buck side, they're not devastating the analysts side. 1180 01:03:34,640 --> 01:03:38,479 Speaker 1: In most cases, they just redistribute when those harvest occur, 1181 01:03:38,720 --> 01:03:40,600 Speaker 1: and they tend to now occur a little earlier in 1182 01:03:40,640 --> 01:03:43,960 Speaker 1: the year, during you know, an archery season rather than 1183 01:03:44,040 --> 01:03:47,160 Speaker 1: during the firearm season. All right, there, you haven't the 1184 01:03:47,240 --> 01:03:51,840 Speaker 1: data has spoken, we don't need to be so so 1185 01:03:51,920 --> 01:03:53,960 Speaker 1: worried about that when it comes down the line. It 1186 01:03:54,000 --> 01:03:57,439 Speaker 1: seems like every state, whenever that gets put out there, 1187 01:03:58,000 --> 01:04:02,520 Speaker 1: there's this this this crazy tizzy of fear and worry 1188 01:04:02,560 --> 01:04:05,120 Speaker 1: about it. And I'm glad to see that numbers have 1189 01:04:05,160 --> 01:04:08,080 Speaker 1: not shown some kind of negative impact. But that does 1190 01:04:08,160 --> 01:04:11,959 Speaker 1: lead me to one other thing, which we did chat 1191 01:04:11,960 --> 01:04:14,720 Speaker 1: about this last year, Kip. But I'm just curious to hear, 1192 01:04:15,240 --> 01:04:17,600 Speaker 1: you know, as things have evolved, where your head's at 1193 01:04:17,640 --> 01:04:21,120 Speaker 1: on it, and what your sense of the challenges, and 1194 01:04:21,200 --> 01:04:26,880 Speaker 1: that is hunter recruitment versus hunter crowding or access challenges. 1195 01:04:26,960 --> 01:04:29,000 Speaker 1: There's this, you know, for a long number of years 1196 01:04:29,000 --> 01:04:32,920 Speaker 1: we've been hearing about, you know, lowering recruitment, the fact 1197 01:04:32,920 --> 01:04:35,360 Speaker 1: that there's there's fewer and fewer new hunters coming into 1198 01:04:35,400 --> 01:04:39,080 Speaker 1: our lifestyle, how the demographics are changing and there's a 1199 01:04:39,080 --> 01:04:41,720 Speaker 1: lot of folks aging out, and so there's been this 1200 01:04:42,560 --> 01:04:45,040 Speaker 1: long running concern about how do we bring new folks 1201 01:04:45,080 --> 01:04:47,520 Speaker 1: into the fold, and there's been some really great programs 1202 01:04:47,560 --> 01:04:49,400 Speaker 1: put in place, like the Field of Fork program that 1203 01:04:49,400 --> 01:04:52,640 Speaker 1: you guys have at NDA, helping do that, helping educate 1204 01:04:52,680 --> 01:04:57,080 Speaker 1: new hunters, helping mentor new hunters. It's you know, being involved, 1205 01:04:57,120 --> 01:04:58,440 Speaker 1: and some of that stuff has been some of the 1206 01:04:58,560 --> 01:05:00,440 Speaker 1: very best things I've done as a dear your hunter 1207 01:05:00,440 --> 01:05:04,240 Speaker 1: in my life. But on the flip side, there's been 1208 01:05:04,280 --> 01:05:09,280 Speaker 1: this growing kind of backlash to that, I guess from 1209 01:05:09,320 --> 01:05:12,480 Speaker 1: some folks who are concerned that, you know, public lands 1210 01:05:12,480 --> 01:05:15,520 Speaker 1: are becoming overcrowded and that there's too many hunters out 1211 01:05:15,560 --> 01:05:18,040 Speaker 1: there now today and you can't get access on private 1212 01:05:18,080 --> 01:05:20,520 Speaker 1: land anymore because everything is already being hunted or is 1213 01:05:20,560 --> 01:05:24,200 Speaker 1: being leased by hunters, and you know, public lands are 1214 01:05:24,240 --> 01:05:26,680 Speaker 1: being loved to death, and so there's this I don't 1215 01:05:26,680 --> 01:05:28,880 Speaker 1: know if it's a loud minority. Maybe it probably is 1216 01:05:28,880 --> 01:05:31,760 Speaker 1: just a loud minority, but there is a loud some 1217 01:05:32,000 --> 01:05:36,440 Speaker 1: number of folks who are saying, forget hunter recruitment, we 1218 01:05:36,440 --> 01:05:38,520 Speaker 1: should hoard it all to ourselves because there's too many 1219 01:05:38,520 --> 01:05:41,959 Speaker 1: people out there right now and it's ruining things. What's 1220 01:05:41,960 --> 01:05:45,840 Speaker 1: your sense of the reality of this Kip, is it 1221 01:05:45,880 --> 01:05:47,880 Speaker 1: different than where you were a year ago? Are you 1222 01:05:47,920 --> 01:05:53,240 Speaker 1: more or less concerned about it? What's your take? Yeah, 1223 01:05:53,480 --> 01:05:55,400 Speaker 1: and I get the crowding ended and I'm the same 1224 01:05:55,400 --> 01:05:57,240 Speaker 1: way when I go on and I don't want to 1225 01:05:57,240 --> 01:06:00,280 Speaker 1: be crowded. It's always nice to have more of the 1226 01:06:00,360 --> 01:06:03,520 Speaker 1: woods to ourselves. I think that's kind of a selfish 1227 01:06:03,600 --> 01:06:06,680 Speaker 1: view of it, though, you know, because the wildlife management 1228 01:06:06,680 --> 01:06:09,440 Speaker 1: doesn't depend on just me. It depends on me and 1229 01:06:09,480 --> 01:06:12,640 Speaker 1: you and every other hunter that we have. So as 1230 01:06:12,680 --> 01:06:16,600 Speaker 1: our hunter numbers age out, and fortunately we have about 1231 01:06:16,600 --> 01:06:18,720 Speaker 1: the same number of hunters that we did last year, 1232 01:06:19,280 --> 01:06:21,880 Speaker 1: you know, a few years ago, but the average age 1233 01:06:21,920 --> 01:06:24,280 Speaker 1: continues to get older, so very soon we're gonna have 1234 01:06:24,320 --> 01:06:27,720 Speaker 1: a big drop in hundred numbers. And that's why, you know, 1235 01:06:27,880 --> 01:06:31,240 Speaker 1: the field of four programs and others are so important. 1236 01:06:31,360 --> 01:06:34,280 Speaker 1: And thank you for your involvement in hours and everything 1237 01:06:34,360 --> 01:06:37,920 Speaker 1: you do to help recruit hunters. I think if we 1238 01:06:38,000 --> 01:06:39,560 Speaker 1: look at the end of the day, take a look 1239 01:06:39,560 --> 01:06:42,040 Speaker 1: at the actual number of hunters on the landscape, and 1240 01:06:42,360 --> 01:06:45,880 Speaker 1: we've done this for the different regions. The Western US 1241 01:06:45,880 --> 01:06:49,439 Speaker 1: certainly big wide open spaces, they only average one deer 1242 01:06:49,480 --> 01:06:53,240 Speaker 1: hundred per square mile. Now, certainly people travel to the west. 1243 01:06:53,320 --> 01:06:55,920 Speaker 1: I get it, but in large part one deer hundred 1244 01:06:55,920 --> 01:06:59,880 Speaker 1: per square mile. The southeastern US average is four deer 1245 01:07:00,040 --> 01:07:03,920 Speaker 1: hunds per square mile, the Midwest average is five, the 1246 01:07:03,960 --> 01:07:07,200 Speaker 1: Northeast average is nine, and my home state of Pennsylvania 1247 01:07:07,240 --> 01:07:09,640 Speaker 1: has the most. We average about fourteen deer hundreds per 1248 01:07:09,680 --> 01:07:12,200 Speaker 1: square mile. So so I get it from one hundred 1249 01:07:12,240 --> 01:07:14,640 Speaker 1: crowd and then you know, there's not always a deer 1250 01:07:14,680 --> 01:07:16,760 Speaker 1: behind every tree, but at times it feels like there's 1251 01:07:16,760 --> 01:07:19,600 Speaker 1: one hundred and every tree. Yeah, you know, at fourteen 1252 01:07:19,600 --> 01:07:21,840 Speaker 1: and a half. Dear, I think so much of it 1253 01:07:21,920 --> 01:07:24,000 Speaker 1: is what people grew up hunting. If you grew up 1254 01:07:24,040 --> 01:07:26,360 Speaker 1: in an area where you just didn't see many, then 1255 01:07:26,400 --> 01:07:28,640 Speaker 1: even two or three deer hundreds per square mile might 1256 01:07:28,680 --> 01:07:30,520 Speaker 1: seem like too many. You know, if you grew up 1257 01:07:30,520 --> 01:07:33,600 Speaker 1: in Pennsylvania with fourteen, well, two or three feels like 1258 01:07:33,640 --> 01:07:37,680 Speaker 1: you have everything to yourself. So I think we have 1259 01:07:37,800 --> 01:07:40,560 Speaker 1: to recognize that. Sure, we don't want to be crowded, 1260 01:07:40,600 --> 01:07:43,680 Speaker 1: but we need all the hundreds that we can get. 1261 01:07:43,800 --> 01:07:46,520 Speaker 1: You know, only five percent of the US population binds 1262 01:07:46,520 --> 01:07:48,680 Speaker 1: a hunting license, and we don't get to do anything 1263 01:07:48,720 --> 01:07:50,640 Speaker 1: because five percent of us want to do it, so 1264 01:07:51,880 --> 01:07:54,840 Speaker 1: more hunters that we have now is better. I agree, 1265 01:07:54,840 --> 01:07:56,760 Speaker 1: we don't need one hundred percent of the US to hunt, 1266 01:07:56,800 --> 01:07:59,000 Speaker 1: but you know it would it would help us if 1267 01:07:59,280 --> 01:08:03,560 Speaker 1: more than five hunted. So I think for right now anyways, 1268 01:08:03,960 --> 01:08:06,520 Speaker 1: everything we can do to recruit more for hunters is 1269 01:08:06,520 --> 01:08:09,760 Speaker 1: a very important thing for our future. Yeah, and now 1270 01:08:09,920 --> 01:08:13,000 Speaker 1: I'll just re emphasize the point I made, which was, 1271 01:08:13,480 --> 01:08:15,240 Speaker 1: not only is it a good thing to do for 1272 01:08:15,240 --> 01:08:19,320 Speaker 1: the future of hunting, it is fun. It is fun. 1273 01:08:19,960 --> 01:08:23,960 Speaker 1: I mean helping new hunters, teaching new hunters, mentoring new hunters, 1274 01:08:24,400 --> 01:08:26,760 Speaker 1: being out there to see I mean, I know you've 1275 01:08:26,760 --> 01:08:28,680 Speaker 1: seen a kid. I don't. I'm preaching to the choir here, 1276 01:08:29,000 --> 01:08:33,120 Speaker 1: but I mean there's almost nothing more rewarding than being 1277 01:08:33,120 --> 01:08:37,080 Speaker 1: out there when someone experiences a hunting success for the 1278 01:08:37,120 --> 01:08:39,639 Speaker 1: first time. I mean, these have been the absolute coolest 1279 01:08:39,640 --> 01:08:42,200 Speaker 1: thing seeing people learn to hunt, seeing them, you know, 1280 01:08:42,479 --> 01:08:45,360 Speaker 1: walk up to the first deer they've ever taken a 1281 01:08:45,360 --> 01:08:47,120 Speaker 1: shot at, and they have this meat and they have 1282 01:08:47,200 --> 01:08:49,800 Speaker 1: this experience, and I mean I've had people tell me 1283 01:08:49,800 --> 01:08:53,400 Speaker 1: it's life changing. It's not. It's no small thing. I mean, 1284 01:08:53,880 --> 01:08:58,519 Speaker 1: these are really impactful changes in ways of helping folks. 1285 01:08:58,760 --> 01:09:01,200 Speaker 1: And I mean, I think it's if you look at 1286 01:09:01,200 --> 01:09:03,559 Speaker 1: how hunting is positively influenced you, and I don't think 1287 01:09:03,560 --> 01:09:06,200 Speaker 1: anyone listening to this would not agree with the fact 1288 01:09:06,240 --> 01:09:09,160 Speaker 1: that hunting has so positively influenced each and every one 1289 01:09:09,160 --> 01:09:12,880 Speaker 1: of us. I mean, the good you can put into 1290 01:09:12,920 --> 01:09:15,040 Speaker 1: the world by helping other people experience that, I mean, 1291 01:09:15,080 --> 01:09:19,280 Speaker 1: that is a reward in itself. Um, so all other 1292 01:09:19,360 --> 01:09:23,760 Speaker 1: arguments aside, Yeah, it's a great thing. I agree, And 1293 01:09:24,200 --> 01:09:26,120 Speaker 1: it's some of the most fun I have every year 1294 01:09:26,439 --> 01:09:29,559 Speaker 1: is mentoring hunters. And one of the hunters I mentored 1295 01:09:29,640 --> 01:09:32,800 Speaker 1: last year and never shot a deer. It was a father, 1296 01:09:33,000 --> 01:09:36,439 Speaker 1: young father, and We're sitting in the blind the first night, 1297 01:09:36,520 --> 01:09:38,320 Speaker 1: and I asked me, like, why do you want to hunt? 1298 01:09:38,439 --> 01:09:40,320 Speaker 1: And I still expected him to say, you know, I 1299 01:09:40,360 --> 01:09:42,160 Speaker 1: want to take some meat home. You know that that's 1300 01:09:42,200 --> 01:09:44,800 Speaker 1: because there's so many new hunters today. That's the driving force. 1301 01:09:45,320 --> 01:09:47,880 Speaker 1: And uh, you know, I'm a father, you're a father, 1302 01:09:47,960 --> 01:09:50,640 Speaker 1: so you can relate to this. He said, I have 1303 01:09:50,760 --> 01:09:53,680 Speaker 1: three little boys at home, and I want to be 1304 01:09:53,720 --> 01:09:55,360 Speaker 1: able to do this, to be able to teach them 1305 01:09:55,600 --> 01:09:57,439 Speaker 1: and to prove that that I can, I can bring 1306 01:09:57,479 --> 01:09:59,840 Speaker 1: meat home for our family. Yeah, and I remember thinking, 1307 01:10:00,720 --> 01:10:02,479 Speaker 1: if I have to hunt with you every day the 1308 01:10:02,479 --> 01:10:04,559 Speaker 1: rest of the year, you're going to take a deer home. 1309 01:10:05,880 --> 01:10:09,599 Speaker 1: I'm gonna do everything possible to make sure. So, uh 1310 01:10:09,680 --> 01:10:12,200 Speaker 1: in any way, you know, it's that that was pretty powerful, 1311 01:10:12,320 --> 01:10:14,639 Speaker 1: you know, as a parent, you know, and as a father, 1312 01:10:14,760 --> 01:10:16,600 Speaker 1: I know what it's like. You know how important it 1313 01:10:16,640 --> 01:10:18,800 Speaker 1: is for me to you know, bring meat home to 1314 01:10:18,840 --> 01:10:21,120 Speaker 1: my family or you know, when my kids are hunting 1315 01:10:21,120 --> 01:10:24,280 Speaker 1: with me. So um that that really hit me hard. 1316 01:10:24,600 --> 01:10:26,280 Speaker 1: You know. He didn't grow up the way you did 1317 01:10:26,400 --> 01:10:29,080 Speaker 1: or I did, you know, with the family figure you know, 1318 01:10:29,120 --> 01:10:31,559 Speaker 1: teach them that. So he came to it later in life. 1319 01:10:31,560 --> 01:10:33,880 Speaker 1: And good for him, you know, for for wanting to 1320 01:10:33,880 --> 01:10:36,840 Speaker 1: do it now and taking the steps necessary. So I 1321 01:10:36,960 --> 01:10:40,080 Speaker 1: certainly was going to do everything in my power that 1322 01:10:40,080 --> 01:10:42,479 Speaker 1: that that he learned to you know, learned to be 1323 01:10:42,479 --> 01:10:44,920 Speaker 1: a hundred and was able to take some dear home. Yeah, 1324 01:10:45,080 --> 01:10:52,120 Speaker 1: that's pretty great. Will keep given what you know, came 1325 01:10:52,160 --> 01:10:55,880 Speaker 1: to understand throughout the process of putting together this twenty 1326 01:10:55,960 --> 01:10:59,439 Speaker 1: twenty three Dear Report, or through through any of the 1327 01:10:59,479 --> 01:11:03,840 Speaker 1: other things discussed today. If you had to distill all 1328 01:11:03,840 --> 01:11:10,680 Speaker 1: the topics we talked about down to two related actions 1329 01:11:11,680 --> 01:11:14,160 Speaker 1: that you would like our audience to take after having 1330 01:11:14,280 --> 01:11:17,439 Speaker 1: heard this conversation, there's two things that you would like 1331 01:11:17,479 --> 01:11:20,320 Speaker 1: to encourage our listeners to do over the you know, 1332 01:11:20,439 --> 01:11:24,800 Speaker 1: next year that would help lead us towards a better 1333 01:11:24,840 --> 01:11:28,000 Speaker 1: future for deer and deer hunting. What would those two 1334 01:11:28,040 --> 01:11:32,240 Speaker 1: things be you'd like us to do. One would be 1335 01:11:32,520 --> 01:11:35,759 Speaker 1: take somebody new hunting this year. I think it's hunters 1336 01:11:35,760 --> 01:11:39,800 Speaker 1: responsibility now to mentor you know the next group, So 1337 01:11:40,080 --> 01:11:44,360 Speaker 1: take somebody hunting and shoot a doe this fall. Both 1338 01:11:44,360 --> 01:11:47,600 Speaker 1: of those are incredibly important. And you know, if we 1339 01:11:47,640 --> 01:11:49,880 Speaker 1: had more hunters do in those if when you and 1340 01:11:49,880 --> 01:11:52,840 Speaker 1: I talk next year, we'll be in better shape. Man. 1341 01:11:53,040 --> 01:11:55,360 Speaker 1: That's an easy ask, Kip, because both of those things 1342 01:11:55,360 --> 01:11:57,360 Speaker 1: are a lot of fun. Like we already talked about 1343 01:11:57,400 --> 01:12:00,880 Speaker 1: how fun it is to mentor. But then also every year, Kip, 1344 01:12:01,360 --> 01:12:04,639 Speaker 1: I'm always reminded, like when I go in the field 1345 01:12:04,760 --> 01:12:07,439 Speaker 1: on a dough mission, like specifically to go out to hunt. 1346 01:12:07,439 --> 01:12:10,040 Speaker 1: Does every day I do it, I'm like, oh my gosh, 1347 01:12:10,040 --> 01:12:12,400 Speaker 1: this is so much fun. Like I almost like those 1348 01:12:12,479 --> 01:12:15,400 Speaker 1: hunts more because you're going out there. It's a target 1349 01:12:15,479 --> 01:12:19,200 Speaker 1: rich environment. You just it feels like every moment is 1350 01:12:19,240 --> 01:12:22,639 Speaker 1: a little bit more charged because it just feels like, Okay, yeah, 1351 01:12:22,840 --> 01:12:25,519 Speaker 1: it's gonna happen. You better be ready. And then it 1352 01:12:25,520 --> 01:12:29,360 Speaker 1: doesn't always happen. But man, I love hunting for dose 1353 01:12:29,439 --> 01:12:33,639 Speaker 1: Like that's a blast. I'm with you on that one. 1354 01:12:33,680 --> 01:12:35,760 Speaker 1: So we'll see if we can encourage some folks to 1355 01:12:35,840 --> 01:12:39,040 Speaker 1: do that. All right, Well, Kip, one last question, where 1356 01:12:39,080 --> 01:12:42,880 Speaker 1: can folks go to get their own copy of the 1357 01:12:42,920 --> 01:12:45,240 Speaker 1: twenty twenty three d Report and read? I mean, there's 1358 01:12:45,240 --> 01:12:46,960 Speaker 1: so much more on there that we didn't get to cover, 1359 01:12:47,000 --> 01:12:49,040 Speaker 1: so I'd highly encourage folks to download it and give 1360 01:12:49,040 --> 01:12:51,200 Speaker 1: it a read. So where can they find them? And 1361 01:12:51,200 --> 01:12:54,960 Speaker 1: then also, can you give folks just a quick quick 1362 01:12:55,200 --> 01:12:57,800 Speaker 1: rundown of how they can become a member of the 1363 01:12:57,880 --> 01:13:03,759 Speaker 1: National Deer Association and what all isn't included with that? Sure, 1364 01:13:03,840 --> 01:13:06,720 Speaker 1: they can go to our website which is Deer Association 1365 01:13:06,840 --> 01:13:09,040 Speaker 1: dot com. M on there, they can click on the 1366 01:13:09,080 --> 01:13:12,280 Speaker 1: Deer Reports and it's a free download. Every one of 1367 01:13:12,280 --> 01:13:16,040 Speaker 1: these are there and they can grab every single year 1368 01:13:16,040 --> 01:13:18,479 Speaker 1: if they'd like and see how their state compares to 1369 01:13:18,520 --> 01:13:22,120 Speaker 1: the neighboring states and others in their region or different regions, 1370 01:13:22,120 --> 01:13:24,800 Speaker 1: so can do that all for free. And then as 1371 01:13:24,800 --> 01:13:27,400 Speaker 1: far as becoming a member, they can also do that 1372 01:13:27,560 --> 01:13:31,560 Speaker 1: right at the website. Gives them you know, regular information 1373 01:13:31,680 --> 01:13:35,240 Speaker 1: like we're talking about here relative to deer and habitat 1374 01:13:35,280 --> 01:13:39,519 Speaker 1: management and hunter recruitment. Gives them opportunities to get engaged 1375 01:13:39,560 --> 01:13:43,439 Speaker 1: locally relative to issues you know, impacting their deer hunting, 1376 01:13:44,080 --> 01:13:46,320 Speaker 1: and keeps them up to date and all the latest science, 1377 01:13:46,800 --> 01:13:49,519 Speaker 1: dear wives, so they can take care of all of 1378 01:13:49,520 --> 01:13:53,920 Speaker 1: that right on the website. Terrific. Well, I appreciate as always, Kip, 1379 01:13:54,000 --> 01:13:57,040 Speaker 1: thanks for walking through all this with me and answering 1380 01:13:57,040 --> 01:14:01,200 Speaker 1: all my questions. And and I just I want to 1381 01:14:01,720 --> 01:14:05,960 Speaker 1: reiterate we talked at the front end about how, you know, 1382 01:14:06,160 --> 01:14:08,200 Speaker 1: long we've been doing this and how I'm starting to 1383 01:14:08,240 --> 01:14:10,800 Speaker 1: realize that and you've been at it much longer than 1384 01:14:10,840 --> 01:14:13,920 Speaker 1: I have. And I just want to publicly say thank 1385 01:14:13,960 --> 01:14:16,840 Speaker 1: you for what you've done in your time in this 1386 01:14:16,960 --> 01:14:20,960 Speaker 1: role with the QDMA and now the NDA, and you've 1387 01:14:20,960 --> 01:14:23,760 Speaker 1: been such a great champion in voice for deer and 1388 01:14:23,760 --> 01:14:27,160 Speaker 1: deer hunters for a very long time now. And I'm 1389 01:14:27,160 --> 01:14:29,559 Speaker 1: sure you know this, but I'm not sure if you 1390 01:14:29,640 --> 01:14:33,040 Speaker 1: take the time to sit down and appreciate it or 1391 01:14:33,240 --> 01:14:38,679 Speaker 1: or revel in it. That being this, this tremendous positive 1392 01:14:38,680 --> 01:14:41,960 Speaker 1: impact you've had on our pursuit and our resources and 1393 01:14:42,000 --> 01:14:45,200 Speaker 1: our lifestyle so on behalf of all my listeners over 1394 01:14:45,240 --> 01:14:49,800 Speaker 1: all these years. Thank you for that. Well, I certainly 1395 01:14:49,840 --> 01:14:53,519 Speaker 1: appreciate the kind words. Mark, I appreciate that a lot, 1396 01:14:53,560 --> 01:14:55,720 Speaker 1: and I'll throw it right back at you. You have 1397 01:14:55,920 --> 01:14:58,080 Speaker 1: a you have a big voice. You have always done 1398 01:14:58,080 --> 01:15:00,280 Speaker 1: a great job and been a great champion for for 1399 01:15:00,439 --> 01:15:04,840 Speaker 1: hunters and public lands and deer in particular. So I 1400 01:15:04,840 --> 01:15:07,240 Speaker 1: appreciate the opportunity to be on here and be able 1401 01:15:07,280 --> 01:15:10,360 Speaker 1: to share some of our data. So keep up the 1402 01:15:10,360 --> 01:15:13,360 Speaker 1: good work, all right, Right back at your Kip, looking 1403 01:15:13,400 --> 01:15:15,800 Speaker 1: forward to doing our twenty twenty four edition here before 1404 01:15:15,800 --> 01:15:17,760 Speaker 1: we know it. All right, and that's a rap. Thank 1405 01:15:17,760 --> 01:15:20,599 Speaker 1: you so much for tuning in today. As Kip mentioned, 1406 01:15:20,960 --> 01:15:23,759 Speaker 1: please go on over download the twenty twenty three Whitetail 1407 01:15:23,800 --> 01:15:26,599 Speaker 1: Report get the full scoop on everything we talked about. 1408 01:15:26,840 --> 01:15:29,440 Speaker 1: If you're not a member of the National Deer Association, 1409 01:15:29,840 --> 01:15:32,920 Speaker 1: it's cheap. It gets you access to a ton of 1410 01:15:32,960 --> 01:15:36,720 Speaker 1: great resources and gets you plugged into a really what 1411 01:15:36,880 --> 01:15:40,160 Speaker 1: I think is a special community of whitetail hunters and 1412 01:15:40,320 --> 01:15:43,960 Speaker 1: managers and conservationists. So check it out going over to 1413 01:15:43,960 --> 01:15:47,840 Speaker 1: the Deer Association dot com And until next time, thank 1414 01:15:47,880 --> 01:15:49,800 Speaker 1: you for tuning in. Hope to see a lot of 1415 01:15:49,840 --> 01:15:52,400 Speaker 1: you April twenty second at the Working for Wildlife tour 1416 01:15:52,520 --> 01:15:56,599 Speaker 1: and until then, stay wired to Hunt.