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Speaker 1: The Book of Joe podcast is a production of iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 1: Hey there, welcome back. You have found once again the

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Speaker 1: Book of Joe Podcast with me, Tom Berducci and Joe Madden. Joe,

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Speaker 1: welcome to September.

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Speaker 2: Right, September has finally come. That's going to be the

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Speaker 2: eventual quote of the day. Has thought about that earlier

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Speaker 2: this morning, something nice to talk about all the time,

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Speaker 2: and then you just started out.

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Speaker 1: With, oh, a teaser. I can't wait for the quote

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Speaker 1: of the day.

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Speaker 3: I'm ready for you. I'm ready for your brother.

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Speaker 1: Hey, I got a question for you, speaking of September.

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Speaker 1: What percentage of teams in the wildcard era that we're

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Speaker 1: in playoff position on Labor Day wound up actually in

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Speaker 1: the postseason. What do you think the conversion rate is

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Speaker 1: holding a playoff spot on Labor Day to getting into

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Speaker 1: the postseason. It's going to be pretty high, right, it

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Speaker 1: is high, seventy eighty eight percent. I mean, we all

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Speaker 1: love comebacks, but the fact is it's usually pretty rare

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Speaker 1: in September to run a team down. My rule of thumb,

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Speaker 1: Joe has always been, if you're behind somebody else in

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Speaker 1: the playoff spot, don't let that deficit get more than

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Speaker 1: one game per week, that's right. So if you're out

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Speaker 1: five games starting September, no, you're not going to get

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Speaker 1: there two weeks, Togo. You better be no more than

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Speaker 1: two games out, is you know, Joe, it's hard to

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Speaker 1: make up ground this late in the year, just.

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Speaker 2: Like the race did. Right, How many did we make up?

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Speaker 2: What was that twenty eleven something like that. I don't

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Speaker 2: want to get into that. You probably already have that

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Speaker 2: queued up, but I think we were like nine and

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Speaker 2: a half back on September one to get to the

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Speaker 2: wild Card and eventually beat Boston on that last day

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Speaker 2: with the culminating in the best night of baseball, I

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Speaker 2: guess in modern times kind of absolutely. But I remember

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Speaker 2: that specifically because you just said I used to tell

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Speaker 2: the guys about that all the time when we got behind,

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Speaker 2: even in August.

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Speaker 3: We have to make up one game a week, guys.

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Speaker 2: That's all it is, is one game a week, And

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Speaker 2: I would that's what I would look at in the standings.

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Speaker 2: Of course, you get to September down by nine and

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Speaker 2: a half or whatever the hell it was, and then

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Speaker 2: it's more difficult to sell. But I remember that, and

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Speaker 2: I think that included a really tough double hitterer loss

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Speaker 2: in New York.

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Speaker 3: Doing that stretch up.

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Speaker 2: I'm correct, So anyway, Yeah, it normally doesn't happen that way,

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Speaker 2: but when it does, it's pretty special.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, well that's September. What I really want to talk

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Speaker 1: about today, Joe, is the stolen base. Okay, because like

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Speaker 1: everything else, we kind of take our cues from shohe Otani,

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Speaker 1: who's running wild these days. A lot of people are

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Speaker 1: locked into his chase for being the first fifty to

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Speaker 1: fifty player, fifty home runs, fifty stolen bases. He up

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Speaker 1: to forty six at this count. In terms of stolen bases.

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Speaker 1: It's fascinating. First of all, show he has not been

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Speaker 1: thrown out since July twenty Second, he's twenty three for

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Speaker 1: his last twenty three stealing bases. I mean, he does

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Speaker 1: so many things well and you've seen it up closed, Joe,

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Speaker 1: his intellect running the base is just another reason why

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Speaker 1: your jaw drops watching this guy play.

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Speaker 3: Complete player.

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Speaker 2: That's set us from the beginning when I got my

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Speaker 2: eyes on him, when he was pitching and hitting, he

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Speaker 2: still wanted to run all the time. And the rules

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Speaker 2: are a little bit different obviously, they made it somewhat

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Speaker 2: easier to steal a bag right now, and he's definitely

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Speaker 2: going to take advantage of that. But when he was

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Speaker 2: doing both and I was the manager there, I didn't

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Speaker 2: tell him not to run, but you know, it was

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Speaker 2: more difficult because he just had to say some of

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Speaker 2: that energy doing both things. But now when it's just

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Speaker 2: hitting and just hitting as a DH, no doubt in

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Speaker 2: my mind, this was part of his probably goal setting

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Speaker 2: before the season began, to do something like this because

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Speaker 2: it had never been done before. He's always he's not

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Speaker 2: going to come out and say it. I don't believe,

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Speaker 2: but he's also I would also bet researches things that

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Speaker 2: have not been done before that are within his reach.

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Speaker 2: So not a surprise. The fabricated you know, stealing rule

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Speaker 2: right now definitely benefits him. Regarding throwovers, how many times

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Speaker 2: you can throw over, et cetera, that definitely benefits him

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Speaker 2: because he is a smart baseball player.

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Speaker 1: All right, I want to get to your fabricated rule

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Speaker 1: as you call it in a minute to challenge you

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Speaker 1: on that. Okay, but it's interesting. I think you're right

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Speaker 1: about show Hey, I think he wants to do things

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Speaker 1: players have not done before, right, he wants to forge

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Speaker 1: his own path, and certainly fifty to fifty would be that.

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Speaker 1: I'm not sure if he knows this, Joe, but he

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Speaker 1: already has set a record with forty six stolen bases.

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Speaker 1: Remember show Hey is well, he's listed at six four

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Speaker 1: two ten. He I think he's probably bigger than that. Now,

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Speaker 1: six four to two ten, he's already has the most

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Speaker 1: stolen bases by a player. At least that's tall, at

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Speaker 1: least that heavy, six four to two ten. The old record,

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Speaker 1: if I'm calling it a record, obviously it's not. But

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Speaker 1: the old record was Alex Rios, remember him?

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Speaker 3: Oh yeah, good players, one of.

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Speaker 1: My buddies with the Blue Jays. Yeah, twenty thirteen he

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Speaker 1: had forty two stolen bases. Jose Canseco and his forty

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Speaker 1: forty season eighty eight had forty, and Matt Kemp had forty.

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Speaker 1: Those are the only guys who'd stole forty at that size.

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Speaker 1: And now you got show Hey with a month ago

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Speaker 1: already with forty six. That's just one more amazing reason

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Speaker 1: to admire this guy. And how about this the highest

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Speaker 1: stolen base percentage of all time? Because he rarely has

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Speaker 1: shown thrown out. Show Hey is forty six out of

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Speaker 1: fifty this year stealing bases. That's the fifth highest in

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Speaker 1: the history of baseball history. Ninety two percent of anybody

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Speaker 1: with forty six steals. I mean, this is crazy what

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Speaker 1: he's doing here for a guy who rarely gets thrown

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Speaker 1: out at his size and yeah.

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Speaker 2: That's more than two ten he said two ten. There's

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Speaker 2: definitely he's big. He's very big man, but he's very

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Speaker 2: strong man. I would whatever the height is, that's probably accurate,

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Speaker 2: but I'd say he's got to be over two hundred

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Speaker 2: ten pounds.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I think he's in the two thirties, to be

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Speaker 1: honest with you.

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Speaker 2: Absolutely, So he's a tall, lean guy, but he's extremely strong.

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Speaker 2: All the other players you've mentioned, Rios Conseko camp saw

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Speaker 2: them all. Yeah, there were big people that really moved well.

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Speaker 3: You know. With Shohey going back to pitching again extra.

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Speaker 2: Hopefully he might might mitigate that a little bit, but

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Speaker 2: he's still gonna want to go, especially the fact that

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Speaker 2: he's set this bar a little bit higher, or maybe

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Speaker 2: with him it's like, Okay, I've done this and I

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Speaker 2: don't have to really focus on this as much in

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Speaker 2: the future. And I'll get back into pitching and just

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Speaker 2: run one. I think it's absolutely the right thing to do,

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Speaker 2: but it is.

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Speaker 3: It's just different. He is different.

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Speaker 2: Everything he does on the baseball field is like you said,

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Speaker 2: it's not really been done before. And that's what he

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Speaker 2: wants to do. He wants to do things that have

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Speaker 2: not been done before based on size, speed, power, arm strength.

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Speaker 3: Whatever you want to call it.

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Speaker 2: Just he is the unicorn that gets often that gets used,

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Speaker 2: I think a little bit too often that phrase.

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Speaker 3: But this guy truly is that.

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Speaker 1: And when you watch him run and steal bases, Joe,

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Speaker 1: I don't know if you notice this. He's always sliding

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Speaker 1: feet first, and it's a beautiful slide. He slides in

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Speaker 1: that pop up position where his foot always holds the bag.

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Speaker 1: And I know a lot of guys have gone to

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Speaker 1: the head first slide because with the challenge rule, now,

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Speaker 1: if your foot comes off that bag of millimeter and

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Speaker 1: the infielder keeps the tag on you, we've seen guys

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Speaker 1: get called out. And so a lot of guys went

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Speaker 1: to the head first slide to grab the bag and

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Speaker 1: hold it. Well, just watch showhy slide. He slides the

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Speaker 1: right way. He slides into the bag and starts raising

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Speaker 1: out of it, and his foot is going to stay

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Speaker 1: on the bag of the entire time. Think about lou Brock,

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Speaker 1: he slides like lou Brock. Correct, You've got Mariy Will's

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Speaker 1: Davy lopes. These guys all slid feet first, and I

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Speaker 1: think it's a way. First of all, Choey obviously, as

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Speaker 1: you've said, Joe, he's coming back and pitching next year.

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Speaker 1: Not a good idea for him to be sliding, you know,

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Speaker 1: hands first with those fingers exposed. But he's going to

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Speaker 1: slide feet first, right foot out, sliding on the left leg, bent,

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Speaker 1: left hand behind him. Right hand is always off the ground,

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Speaker 1: never in danger. So you know, just one more reason.

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Speaker 1: You watch this guy play baseball, and he's so smart

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Speaker 1: and fundamentally sound.

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Speaker 3: Intimidating.

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Speaker 2: Also when you're in there and you're having to apply

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Speaker 2: a tag with the feet coming at you, a little

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Speaker 2: bit more intimidating with the hands, you know, the I

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Speaker 2: guess they've eliminated the rule where you could put the

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Speaker 2: knee in front, but that was a part of it too.

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Speaker 2: You would identify head first sliders and the guys that

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Speaker 2: were really good, the infielders.

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Speaker 3: At putting the knee down.

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Speaker 2: They could put the knee down and block a hand

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Speaker 2: from getting to the bag, which you don't want to

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Speaker 2: put a knee down with the spike coming at you,

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Speaker 2: so that that also is a difference. I've always thought

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Speaker 2: it was a more intimidating slide. Carl Crawford was the

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Speaker 2: other guy. Cee Cee always slid feet first. And I'm

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Speaker 2: telling you what. Cec one of the biggest strongest guys

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Speaker 2: I've been on the field with.

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Speaker 3: And you could hear him run and it was fast.

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Speaker 3: You hear it.

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Speaker 2: You could he just dug the ground out from behind him.

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Speaker 2: And when he went into a bag, it was feed first.

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Speaker 2: And if I, like I said, if I'm a middle endfielder,

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Speaker 2: I don't want any of that. So that's part of

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Speaker 2: it too that nobody talks about. It's the feed first

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Speaker 2: component of it. The other part that we were taught

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Speaker 2: younger is that you mentioned it you could pop up

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Speaker 2: more quickly.

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Speaker 3: You don't want to get into.

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Speaker 2: A pop up slide necessarily on a steal, because sometimes

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Speaker 2: they could actually slow you down right before you get

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Speaker 2: to the bag and give you the appearance of being out.

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Speaker 2: That was a problem back in the day prior to replay.

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Speaker 2: So you want to power slide, You want to power

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Speaker 2: slide into the bag, and you don't necessarily want to

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Speaker 2: just pop right up. You want to make sure that

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Speaker 2: foot gets in there first. But the point is when

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Speaker 2: you do slide like that and there is a bad throw,

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Speaker 2: the ability to pop up and get to the next

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Speaker 2: bag becomes easier. We used to actually in spring trainings

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Speaker 2: wet the ground down and give out old pants a

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Speaker 2: different to the players.

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Speaker 3: You'd line up one of the.

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Speaker 2: Coaches with standard with the hose, put it down and

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Speaker 2: put a bag at the end of it, and you

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Speaker 2: had to pass sliding class before you can move on.

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Speaker 2: You couldn't start playing the games to you pass sliding cast.

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Speaker 2: Back in the day, they used to have pits with

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Speaker 2: like sawdust in it, and they guys used to really

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Speaker 2: practice intricate size of the hook slide to really try

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Speaker 2: to get away from a tag, etc.

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Speaker 3: But you really were.

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Speaker 2: Always taught to refrain from the head first slide because,

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Speaker 2: like you said, injuring your hands in your wrists and

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Speaker 2: especially not into home plate, where guys slide in the

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Speaker 2: home plate now kind of there because they're aware that

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Speaker 2: they're the catcher can't really mess them up too bad.

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Speaker 2: But that's another thing. You would didn't want to ever

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Speaker 2: want to slide hand first head first into the plate

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Speaker 2: because the catch with garon could really hurt you. So

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Speaker 2: for years, the slide that was really predominantly top was

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Speaker 2: taught was the feed first, more intimidating slide that permitted

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Speaker 2: you to get through the bag hard and quickly, and

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Speaker 2: then also in the event of a bath throw get

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Speaker 2: right back up on your feet in advance.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm with you. I still don't like the head

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Speaker 1: first slide into home. It is a little bit less risky.

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Speaker 1: I certainly don't like it into first base as well.

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Speaker 1: And listen, if you talk to an engineer or a

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Speaker 1: college professor. I know some people will say that the

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Speaker 1: head first slide can be faster than running through a

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Speaker 1: base at first base or sliding feed first. I get that,

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Speaker 1: but the problem for me, Joe is, watch most guys

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Speaker 1: sliding head first. They don't do it well. If you

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Speaker 1: watch their back legs. Usually the new or Thaiah areas

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Speaker 1: start to hit first and they slow themselves down the

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Speaker 1: way to slide head first. Watch Ricky Henderson, don't look

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Speaker 1: at his highlights it's essentially a dive, propelling the body

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Speaker 1: forward in a diving position. Most guys don't do that,

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Speaker 1: So I see a lot of bad, bad head first

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Speaker 1: slides that definitely are slower than either free first or

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Speaker 1: at first base running through the bag.

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Speaker 3: Pete Rose, the statue right Pete Rose.

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Speaker 2: You've seen photographs of that man totally in the airborne

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Speaker 2: diving exactly how you described right there with Ricky. Those

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Speaker 2: kind of things were innate. I don't think those players

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Speaker 2: necessarily practice those things. They were just aggressive sorts and

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Speaker 2: they wanted to get there, and this is how they

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Speaker 2: derived it. It's the same thing like when you go

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Speaker 2: back in the first base when a pitcher throws over.

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Speaker 2: It's just the exact opposite. You don't want to get airborne.

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Speaker 2: You really want to get to the point where you

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Speaker 2: dive low into the bag and not get up, like

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Speaker 2: have your body go up to get down to the bag.

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Speaker 2: So there's different elements of this sliding hit first that

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Speaker 2: are incorporated. So go back to first, you really want

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Speaker 2: to get low and dive down low and not necessarily

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Speaker 2: get airborne. Whereas like the way you're describing to be

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Speaker 2: safe at second or third base, primarily if that's you're choosing.

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Speaker 3: Especially, I think.

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Speaker 2: It's more prominent that slide on the like a double

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Speaker 2: or triple stolen bases. These guys are going to die,

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Speaker 2: but they're going to stay lower to the ground just

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Speaker 2: to get there sooner. But anyway, there's all these variety

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Speaker 2: of variations on this that different guys perfected on their own.

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Speaker 2: Jimmy Edmonds one of the best sliders I've ever been around, Jimmy,

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Speaker 2: and this was all Jimmy. I've always often talked about

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Speaker 2: Jimmy one of the most intuitive players I've ever had.

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Speaker 2: Did things just because he was a really good baseball player.

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Speaker 2: The baseball was part of his DNA. He did things

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Speaker 2: naturally and normally, and he would slide to avoid tags,

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Speaker 2: put the arm out, and then take it back.

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Speaker 3: He did that way back in the day.

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Speaker 2: His hook slides to avoid a tag outstanding. So there's

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Speaker 2: certain guys that have just it's kind of indigenous to them.

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Speaker 2: They just known what they're doing and they're really good

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Speaker 2: at it. Others have to be taught. But there was

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Speaker 2: always sliding class back in the day.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I have not seen those. Basically, it's a baseball

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Speaker 1: version of slipping. Slide. I haven't seen those drills in

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Speaker 1: the spring trainings, probably the nineteen eighties. No one's doing

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Speaker 1: it anymore.

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Speaker 2: They don't want guys to get hurt, exactly, and nobody

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Speaker 2: ever got hurt. Quite frankly, no, I don't remember guys

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Speaker 2: getting hurt doing that.

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Speaker 1: No, of course not. But the best slider today just

293
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Speaker 1: in pure aesthetics, Trey Turner of the Phillies. Oh my goodness.

294
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Speaker 1: I mean it looks like he like they wetted it

295
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Speaker 1: down and he is on a slipping slide. That's it's

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Speaker 1: a beautiful thing. By the way, Joe Madden, one hundred

297
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Speaker 1: and seventy minor league games, how many stolen bases did

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Speaker 1: you have?

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Speaker 3: Five?

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Speaker 1: Two? Okay, two I caught stealing. How many did you have?

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Speaker 3: Five?

302
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Speaker 1: Two? So you're two out of four and you're mynor league.

303
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Speaker 1: It must have been the back end of a double steal, Joe,

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Speaker 1: it probably was.

305
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Speaker 3: It's exactly right, no question, no question.

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Speaker 1: Hey, when we get back, we got to talk about

307
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Speaker 1: you're saying it's frivolous or what was the word fabricated

308
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Speaker 1: the stolen base with some of the rules that we

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Speaker 1: have to encourage. Uh, we need to talk about that

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Speaker 1: because I'm happy the stolen base is back, and I

311
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Speaker 1: actually think you might be surprised that it's not fabricated.

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Speaker 3: Straighten me out, Straighten me out.

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Speaker 1: We'll talk about that right after this. Okay, So, Joe,

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Speaker 1: the stolen base, you know, is if you're runn around

315
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Speaker 1: first base that picture, he gets only two free disengagements

316
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Speaker 1: basically two pickoffs. On the third one. If he doesn't

317
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Speaker 1: get you, it's a back and you move up. So

318
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Speaker 1: you understand that you have bigger bases, so you do

319
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Speaker 1: have some. And this was designed now we have it

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Speaker 1: for a couple of years to encourage the stolen base

321
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Speaker 1: in the game, and it has definitely encouraged that. Last year,

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Speaker 1: the first year these rules, stolen bases went up forty

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Speaker 1: three percent, and now you have guys stealing bases at

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Speaker 1: a rate of this year, it's actually down slightly from

325
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Speaker 1: last year. Last year it was eighty percent. This year

326
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Speaker 1: it's just about its seventy nine percent. In twenty twenty two,

327
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Speaker 1: by the way, it was seventy five percent. So it's

328
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Speaker 1: gone up, but I wouldn't say it's gone up. But

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Speaker 1: here's the point I wanted to make, Joe, We're still

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Speaker 1: not at the level of stealing bases as we were

331
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Speaker 1: in nineteen ninety two. There were more stolen bases per

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Speaker 1: game in nineteen ninety two than there are in twenty

333
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Speaker 1: twenty four. So even with these rules, it's not like

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Speaker 1: we reinvented this game and made it a track meet.

335
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Speaker 1: That is not happening.

336
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Speaker 3: Well, I'll tell you what's happening.

337
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Speaker 2: Is a big part of the lessening of the attempts

338
00:16:10,638 --> 00:16:13,958
Speaker 2: to begin with is just analytically driven, because analysts did

339
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Speaker 2: not want you going I mean, if you got guys

340
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Speaker 2: thrown out, If guys got thrown out on the basis

341
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Speaker 2: and attempted steals, I swear to you, almost one hundred

342
00:16:22,158 --> 00:16:23,918
Speaker 2: percent of the time, somebody would come down to the

343
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Speaker 2: clubhouse and ask you afterwards why it was so and

344
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Speaker 2: so running right there, that was that's a big part

345
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Speaker 2: of the analytical culture, not making outs on the basis.

346
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Speaker 2: So that's why it really kind of went away for

347
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Speaker 2: a long period of time.

348
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Speaker 1: And you're right, Joe, and that's why baseball needed to

349
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Speaker 1: change the rules because they saw that the analytics people

350
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Speaker 1: were running the game and they were saying, if you

351
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Speaker 1: can't steal eighty percent of the time, don't even bother running,

352
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Speaker 1: that's correct, and so they said, we need to find

353
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Speaker 1: a way to boost the success rate of stalling bases

354
00:16:52,558 --> 00:16:55,918
Speaker 1: to encourage the volume of stolen bases. So it really

355
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Speaker 1: was in response to how analytics said, you better not

356
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Speaker 1: make it out on the basis.

357
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Speaker 2: Right, And then what part of it is as you

358
00:17:01,718 --> 00:17:05,198
Speaker 2: got lazy even attempting guys, it wasn't even being taught,

359
00:17:05,278 --> 00:17:08,198
Speaker 2: it wasn't being nurtured. None of that was happening because

360
00:17:08,838 --> 00:17:11,438
Speaker 2: you're just not permitted to. I don't want this guy

361
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Speaker 2: doing that. We don't want to make out.

362
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Speaker 1: And besides that job, I am losing that type of

363
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Speaker 1: player in the game because everybody wanted big slickers who

364
00:17:17,518 --> 00:17:19,598
Speaker 1: struck out and swung from their heels every time, and

365
00:17:19,718 --> 00:17:22,518
Speaker 1: we lost that guy who did have wheels again.

366
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Speaker 2: Yeah, right, there's it's a pretty vicious cycle. So it

367
00:17:25,638 --> 00:17:28,398
Speaker 2: did begin with the analytical component of the game. And

368
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Speaker 2: while that's occurring, the guys that may have been able

369
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Speaker 2: to do that, we're not nurturing the ability to do that.

370
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Speaker 3: It wasn't even taught in the mind.

371
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Speaker 2: We used to teach that in the minor leagues and

372
00:17:37,438 --> 00:17:39,438
Speaker 2: used to want to get your former base dealers or

373
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Speaker 2: somebody that had within your organization major league kind of

374
00:17:42,918 --> 00:17:44,998
Speaker 2: a guy or guys you would bring in just to

375
00:17:45,078 --> 00:17:48,598
Speaker 2: teach or talk about that specifically gone not even nurtured

376
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Speaker 2: or talked about. On top of that, I mean, what's

377
00:17:51,518 --> 00:17:54,078
Speaker 2: going I'm just bumping around a little bit here with

378
00:17:54,158 --> 00:17:57,238
Speaker 2: all of that. I'm surprised that there's not more pitchouts,

379
00:17:57,558 --> 00:18:01,478
Speaker 2: like legitimate pitchouts, and just it's not even about being

380
00:18:01,558 --> 00:18:03,478
Speaker 2: right all the time. It's about making the other team

381
00:18:03,518 --> 00:18:06,278
Speaker 2: think about, well, they might pitch out, and if they're

382
00:18:06,278 --> 00:18:09,278
Speaker 2: going to pitch out, then we're gonna mitigate some of this. Basically,

383
00:18:09,358 --> 00:18:11,638
Speaker 2: I've been surprised about that. I saw it the other day.

384
00:18:11,998 --> 00:18:16,078
Speaker 2: Somebody's just running wild over somebody and eventually they did

385
00:18:16,158 --> 00:18:16,558
Speaker 2: pitch out and.

386
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Speaker 3: They didn't run on that particular pitch.

387
00:18:18,638 --> 00:18:21,278
Speaker 2: But that's part of that. This that's that's really big.

388
00:18:21,318 --> 00:18:23,278
Speaker 2: And the other part is just a pure quick step.

389
00:18:23,558 --> 00:18:26,318
Speaker 2: I mean, if a pitcher's slow, regardless of the set

390
00:18:26,358 --> 00:18:27,638
Speaker 2: of the rules, and if he has a bad move,

391
00:18:27,678 --> 00:18:30,158
Speaker 2: regardless of the rules, you still could run on them.

392
00:18:30,278 --> 00:18:33,078
Speaker 2: If you're really being taught to do this and what

393
00:18:33,158 --> 00:18:34,958
Speaker 2: to pick up on and how to do this, and

394
00:18:34,998 --> 00:18:38,238
Speaker 2: how to get that moving jump or lead lead jump

395
00:18:38,278 --> 00:18:40,358
Speaker 2: that like Ricky used to walk walk, walk and go

396
00:18:40,398 --> 00:18:43,958
Speaker 2: but still be able to get back lext point bock moves.

397
00:18:44,198 --> 00:18:46,598
Speaker 2: I watched the other day somebody threw over the first base.

398
00:18:46,678 --> 00:18:49,278
Speaker 2: Oh my god, umpires don't even know what a bock

399
00:18:49,398 --> 00:18:52,558
Speaker 2: move is. So there's there's all these different things going on,

400
00:18:53,238 --> 00:18:55,998
Speaker 2: and again this is just like free forming this thing.

401
00:18:56,438 --> 00:19:00,198
Speaker 2: I analytics driven. That's why nobody ran like you're saying,

402
00:19:00,238 --> 00:19:02,958
Speaker 2: analytics driven. So now we have to change the rules. Okay,

403
00:19:03,358 --> 00:19:03,798
Speaker 2: I still.

404
00:19:03,598 --> 00:19:04,158
Speaker 3: Don't want that.

405
00:19:04,158 --> 00:19:06,958
Speaker 2: I'm an organic guy, but nobody's been taught to do

406
00:19:06,998 --> 00:19:09,158
Speaker 2: this stuff. This is all being done right now. That's

407
00:19:09,158 --> 00:19:11,918
Speaker 2: shooting fish in a barrel. So if I'm managing right now,

408
00:19:11,958 --> 00:19:15,398
Speaker 2: I'm definitely if I'm playing your team in a four

409
00:19:15,438 --> 00:19:17,998
Speaker 2: game series, I'm going to pitch out in that first

410
00:19:18,038 --> 00:19:20,198
Speaker 2: game at some point. I want you to know that

411
00:19:20,238 --> 00:19:23,078
Speaker 2: we're willing to pitch out Texas League five and six

412
00:19:23,158 --> 00:19:24,998
Speaker 2: game series. Back in the day, and we had some

413
00:19:25,038 --> 00:19:28,118
Speaker 2: guys that could really go. I had dev Devon White

414
00:19:28,158 --> 00:19:31,398
Speaker 2: and Mark McLamore on my own particular team, and there's

415
00:19:31,398 --> 00:19:33,758
Speaker 2: Shane Mack and all these other guys that could fly

416
00:19:33,838 --> 00:19:36,398
Speaker 2: on these other teams, and you had to pitch out.

417
00:19:36,518 --> 00:19:38,398
Speaker 2: You had to let them know that you might. So

418
00:19:38,798 --> 00:19:42,158
Speaker 2: there's ways to counteract this that. I'm just surprised that

419
00:19:42,278 --> 00:19:46,998
Speaker 2: it hasn't really taken form yet, and that's what I

420
00:19:47,078 --> 00:19:49,318
Speaker 2: give it an opportunity. I would like to see more

421
00:19:49,438 --> 00:19:52,238
Speaker 2: of that too, a little more of a quick step.

422
00:19:52,678 --> 00:19:55,198
Speaker 2: Understand that. I know you can only hold the ball

423
00:19:55,238 --> 00:19:57,758
Speaker 2: to a certain extent because of the rules of disengaging

424
00:19:57,758 --> 00:19:59,638
Speaker 2: the rubber. There's all these things like you're saying that

425
00:19:59,678 --> 00:20:02,638
Speaker 2: are built in two run, but the one weapon that

426
00:20:02,718 --> 00:20:05,118
Speaker 2: has not been utilized put the seat of doubt in

427
00:20:05,198 --> 00:20:07,078
Speaker 2: the minds. I don't think is the pitch out. I

428
00:20:07,078 --> 00:20:07,718
Speaker 2: don't see it that.

429
00:20:07,718 --> 00:20:10,078
Speaker 1: Often agreed on the pitch out. But I do think

430
00:20:10,118 --> 00:20:13,118
Speaker 1: in terms of pitchers being quicker to the plate, they've adjusted.

431
00:20:13,598 --> 00:20:16,838
Speaker 1: I mean, I think they're much quicker. I think the

432
00:20:17,078 --> 00:20:19,918
Speaker 1: attention paid to the running game, at least defending the game.

433
00:20:19,918 --> 00:20:21,838
Speaker 1: To me, it's better now than it was in the

434
00:20:21,878 --> 00:20:24,838
Speaker 1: early nineties in the eighties, I mean, you didn't see

435
00:20:24,878 --> 00:20:27,838
Speaker 1: that many slidesteps back then. You see it a lot now.

436
00:20:28,078 --> 00:20:30,998
Speaker 1: I think catchers now we have a re emphasis on

437
00:20:31,118 --> 00:20:34,598
Speaker 1: catcher arm strength and pop time. I think that has improved.

438
00:20:35,118 --> 00:20:38,838
Speaker 1: So even though these rules do encourage stolen bases, again,

439
00:20:39,118 --> 00:20:42,158
Speaker 1: these numbers are not going through the charts. So if

440
00:20:42,318 --> 00:20:45,238
Speaker 1: somebody wants to sit there and they're look at Otani

441
00:20:45,318 --> 00:20:47,278
Speaker 1: and say, well, fifty to fifty, you know that's only

442
00:20:47,278 --> 00:20:51,398
Speaker 1: because they changed rules. That's boloney. I do think the

443
00:20:51,478 --> 00:20:55,238
Speaker 1: rules make it again easier, or at least they encourage

444
00:20:55,238 --> 00:20:59,118
Speaker 1: more stolen bases, But you look at it's not easier

445
00:20:59,118 --> 00:21:02,518
Speaker 1: that it was in the early nineteen nineties. It's not

446
00:21:02,638 --> 00:21:05,198
Speaker 1: like we're playing a different game here, different from three

447
00:21:05,278 --> 00:21:09,278
Speaker 1: years ago. Absolutely, but this is not I would not

448
00:21:09,518 --> 00:21:13,198
Speaker 1: denigrate Otani's achievement anybody's stolen base totals in the game

449
00:21:13,238 --> 00:21:15,878
Speaker 1: today based on the fact that we have new rules.

450
00:21:15,918 --> 00:21:18,078
Speaker 1: This is the game that we have and again that

451
00:21:18,198 --> 00:21:20,638
Speaker 1: numbers are not ridiculous to the point where you do

452
00:21:20,718 --> 00:21:23,318
Speaker 1: have to carve it out as sort of an anomaly.

453
00:21:23,478 --> 00:21:24,838
Speaker 2: Let me ask you this, I mean, because you might

454
00:21:24,918 --> 00:21:26,838
Speaker 2: know this and I don't know this. How many times

455
00:21:26,878 --> 00:21:30,198
Speaker 2: do pitchers actually throw over after their their limit to

456
00:21:30,238 --> 00:21:30,758
Speaker 2: first base?

457
00:21:31,038 --> 00:21:31,998
Speaker 3: That has that happened?

458
00:21:32,118 --> 00:21:35,398
Speaker 1: It has happened, And when it happens, Joe. Is when

459
00:21:35,438 --> 00:21:38,558
Speaker 1: you've got a situation with a runner, say like Elie

460
00:21:38,558 --> 00:21:41,278
Speaker 1: de la Cruz, right, and the odds of getting him

461
00:21:41,318 --> 00:21:43,798
Speaker 1: are not good, and you have to say a slow

462
00:21:43,838 --> 00:21:45,598
Speaker 1: pitcher on the mount, slow to the plate. I mean,

463
00:21:46,558 --> 00:21:49,238
Speaker 1: you might as well throw over there the third time

464
00:21:49,358 --> 00:21:51,638
Speaker 1: to see if you can get him, because that base

465
00:21:51,718 --> 00:21:55,558
Speaker 1: has already taken you know, over a ninety percent success rate.

466
00:21:55,678 --> 00:21:57,878
Speaker 1: So when the number is that high, he's going to run.

467
00:21:57,918 --> 00:22:00,478
Speaker 1: He's going to be successful ninety five plus percent of

468
00:22:00,518 --> 00:22:03,398
Speaker 1: the time. You take a chance and surprising guy. So

469
00:22:03,918 --> 00:22:06,438
Speaker 1: does it happen often? No, not at all. But with

470
00:22:06,518 --> 00:22:09,678
Speaker 1: the right sort of pure bass stealer and the right

471
00:22:09,718 --> 00:22:12,518
Speaker 1: pitcher on the mound. There are teams, and the Baltimore

472
00:22:12,518 --> 00:22:15,038
Speaker 1: Orioles are one of these teams that will tell their

473
00:22:15,118 --> 00:22:17,998
Speaker 1: guys go ahead and make that third pickoff, try and

474
00:22:17,998 --> 00:22:19,198
Speaker 1: see if you can get them there.

475
00:22:19,318 --> 00:22:22,558
Speaker 2: Throwover versus the pitch out. I mean, that's a that's

476
00:22:22,598 --> 00:22:26,118
Speaker 2: a see for me. That's a great time to put

477
00:22:26,158 --> 00:22:28,238
Speaker 2: it in their heads. You just can't do this. We're

478
00:22:28,278 --> 00:22:29,878
Speaker 2: not going to permit you to just do this. We're

479
00:22:29,878 --> 00:22:31,398
Speaker 2: not just going to let you run after the two

480
00:22:31,438 --> 00:22:36,318
Speaker 2: throwovers without really taking some severe So okay, so you

481
00:22:36,398 --> 00:22:39,398
Speaker 2: throw over third time, he's safe, he gets back whatever,

482
00:22:39,718 --> 00:22:42,238
Speaker 2: he goes to second base, or if you take the

483
00:22:42,278 --> 00:22:44,398
Speaker 2: pitch out, of course it's a ball. And that's again

484
00:22:44,478 --> 00:22:47,958
Speaker 2: that's always frowned upon that that if you throw a ball,

485
00:22:48,198 --> 00:22:50,758
Speaker 2: analytically speaking, that's not a good thing to do. But

486
00:22:50,798 --> 00:22:52,798
Speaker 2: then again, it's almost like back in the day, Luke

487
00:22:52,838 --> 00:22:56,038
Speaker 2: Panelo would pitch out on two one counts, Buck Rodgers

488
00:22:56,038 --> 00:22:57,838
Speaker 2: would pitch out on two one Gen would pitch out

489
00:22:57,838 --> 00:23:00,038
Speaker 2: on two one count because their answer was, if your

490
00:23:00,078 --> 00:23:01,878
Speaker 2: big league pitcher should be able to throw a strike

491
00:23:02,198 --> 00:23:03,758
Speaker 2: on a two one count, how many times the guys

492
00:23:03,798 --> 00:23:07,078
Speaker 2: go bad counts and eventually come back and get back

493
00:23:07,078 --> 00:23:09,398
Speaker 2: in the count and and and get to hit her out.

494
00:23:09,398 --> 00:23:10,998
Speaker 2: So these these are the kind of things you have

495
00:23:11,038 --> 00:23:13,438
Speaker 2: to get by. It's it's like it's picking a scab.

496
00:23:13,438 --> 00:23:15,438
Speaker 2: You got to do it the first time and just

497
00:23:15,478 --> 00:23:17,078
Speaker 2: have it work one or two times, and all of

498
00:23:17,078 --> 00:23:19,718
Speaker 2: a sudden, word gets out. They're not they're not afraid

499
00:23:19,758 --> 00:23:22,358
Speaker 2: to do these kinds of things. So again, I I'd

500
00:23:22,398 --> 00:23:25,318
Speaker 2: be curious or interested to see as opposed to the

501
00:23:25,358 --> 00:23:27,678
Speaker 2: third throw over, go ahead and pitch out once you've

502
00:23:27,758 --> 00:23:31,478
Speaker 2: utilized all your allotted throwovers or your a looted step off.

503
00:23:31,558 --> 00:23:33,158
Speaker 3: So with whatever the allotted this is.

504
00:23:33,478 --> 00:23:36,198
Speaker 2: That definitely it definitely mitigates it a bit. There's it's

505
00:23:36,238 --> 00:23:38,438
Speaker 2: easier for some of these guys to steal for a

506
00:23:38,478 --> 00:23:39,118
Speaker 2: lot of these guys to.

507
00:23:39,118 --> 00:23:40,598
Speaker 3: Steal base right other than it had been.

508
00:23:41,078 --> 00:23:44,038
Speaker 2: But from my perspective, go ahead and pitch out, and

509
00:23:44,118 --> 00:23:48,038
Speaker 2: let's just see if that puts a damper on their

510
00:23:48,078 --> 00:23:50,238
Speaker 2: on their plants. Because it does, I'm telling you it does.

511
00:23:50,398 --> 00:23:52,678
Speaker 2: I know it would for me in a dugout. If

512
00:23:52,678 --> 00:23:54,958
Speaker 2: I'm on the other side, I know you're getta you

513
00:23:55,078 --> 00:23:57,118
Speaker 2: get a loose cannon manager on the other side.

514
00:23:57,198 --> 00:23:59,198
Speaker 3: It's not afraid to do things. It makes you think

515
00:23:59,198 --> 00:23:59,878
Speaker 3: a little bit more.

516
00:24:00,278 --> 00:24:03,078
Speaker 1: Yeah, here's another thing, Joe, and we get to the postseason,

517
00:24:03,118 --> 00:24:06,118
Speaker 1: if not now, but definitely in the postseason. Why every

518
00:24:06,398 --> 00:24:09,398
Speaker 1: postseason team doesn't have a pure burner on the bench.

519
00:24:09,518 --> 00:24:12,718
Speaker 1: That is beyond me and a twenty six man roster

520
00:24:13,478 --> 00:24:16,598
Speaker 1: in a game with you know, let's face it, there

521
00:24:16,598 --> 00:24:20,718
Speaker 1: are encouragement rules for the stolen base and the success

522
00:24:20,798 --> 00:24:24,678
Speaker 1: rate is just about eighty percent. Have a burner on

523
00:24:24,758 --> 00:24:28,598
Speaker 1: your roster man. Postseason games are they're competed ninety feet

524
00:24:28,598 --> 00:24:31,598
Speaker 1: at a time. The difference is marginal having that guy,

525
00:24:31,758 --> 00:24:34,478
Speaker 1: and it's interesting. You know, the Yankees recently did not

526
00:24:34,558 --> 00:24:38,038
Speaker 1: add Jason Domingez to their expanded roster for September, but

527
00:24:38,078 --> 00:24:41,678
Speaker 1: they did pick up Duke Ellis from Seattle, who is

528
00:24:42,038 --> 00:24:44,798
Speaker 1: he's a burner. You know, he's stolen fifty plus bases

529
00:24:44,798 --> 00:24:47,518
Speaker 1: in the minor leagues. The Yankees don't run. They have

530
00:24:47,518 --> 00:24:49,638
Speaker 1: a lot of guys you want to run for late

531
00:24:49,798 --> 00:24:52,878
Speaker 1: in the game, if it's a tie game or a

532
00:24:52,918 --> 00:24:55,558
Speaker 1: one run game, get a guy out there and get

533
00:24:55,598 --> 00:24:58,478
Speaker 1: you a base and get into scoring position. So why

534
00:24:58,558 --> 00:25:01,078
Speaker 1: every team doesn't have one of those players, at least

535
00:25:01,118 --> 00:25:03,678
Speaker 1: one of those players on the bench is beyond me,

536
00:25:03,958 --> 00:25:05,118
Speaker 1: especially in the postseason.

537
00:25:05,558 --> 00:25:07,558
Speaker 2: We did it with the Rays, even back when it

538
00:25:07,678 --> 00:25:10,238
Speaker 2: was less popular than the rules were different, when we

539
00:25:10,278 --> 00:25:15,798
Speaker 2: had BJ and CC Jason Bartlett. We had some guys

540
00:25:15,798 --> 00:25:17,998
Speaker 2: that can go and we let them go. And you

541
00:25:18,158 --> 00:25:21,358
Speaker 2: have to understand there's just some there's a dynamic working there. Yeah,

542
00:25:21,358 --> 00:25:22,638
Speaker 2: they're going to get thrown out once in a while,

543
00:25:22,718 --> 00:25:25,038
Speaker 2: but whenever you could get a picture to split his concentration,

544
00:25:25,558 --> 00:25:27,998
Speaker 2: or a catcher to split hist concentration, or a bench

545
00:25:28,798 --> 00:25:31,998
Speaker 2: bench coach manager coaches split their concentration. To me, that

546
00:25:32,038 --> 00:25:37,318
Speaker 2: was always advantage us with the Angels. We did well

547
00:25:37,718 --> 00:25:40,318
Speaker 2: against the Yankees back in the day because we weren't

548
00:25:40,318 --> 00:25:43,438
Speaker 2: afraid to do things. Roger Clements and now that whole group.

549
00:25:43,718 --> 00:25:46,478
Speaker 2: We were pretty successful I think, which was a little

550
00:25:46,478 --> 00:25:49,318
Speaker 2: bit over five hundred against that dynasty. We were good

551
00:25:49,358 --> 00:25:52,358
Speaker 2: because we put pressure on you to do different things

552
00:25:52,718 --> 00:25:55,238
Speaker 2: on the basis we made you think. We didn't just

553
00:25:55,318 --> 00:25:58,878
Speaker 2: let you go out there and pretty much just prepare,

554
00:25:58,958 --> 00:26:01,038
Speaker 2: put your defense in the right spot. Try to picture

555
00:26:01,078 --> 00:26:03,198
Speaker 2: this guy because they're never going to do anything, which

556
00:26:03,318 --> 00:26:06,198
Speaker 2: was the money ball oakland A's so all this stuff

557
00:26:06,518 --> 00:26:07,798
Speaker 2: is part of the landscape.

558
00:26:08,318 --> 00:26:10,678
Speaker 3: Yes, Terren score outstanding.

559
00:26:10,838 --> 00:26:13,558
Speaker 2: He would this is one of the fastest guys I've had,

560
00:26:14,198 --> 00:26:17,078
Speaker 2: and he was so good, Like you were talking about

561
00:26:17,358 --> 00:26:20,078
Speaker 2: never coming off the bag. God, he'd get to the bank,

562
00:26:20,238 --> 00:26:23,118
Speaker 2: looked like he slid late, but always was like velcro.

563
00:26:23,278 --> 00:26:25,798
Speaker 2: He never came off the bag. Quittin Berry and we

564
00:26:25,878 --> 00:26:28,118
Speaker 2: got this kid from Mexico one year because we couldn't

565
00:26:28,118 --> 00:26:30,838
Speaker 2: find anybody with the rays and Andrew and the boys

566
00:26:30,918 --> 00:26:33,718
Speaker 2: dug down into Mexico and this kid stole some bases.

567
00:26:33,358 --> 00:26:34,998
Speaker 3: For us in the players. I can't remember his name

568
00:26:35,078 --> 00:26:35,758
Speaker 3: right now.

569
00:26:35,998 --> 00:26:39,318
Speaker 2: But I agree with that roster. You want that, especially

570
00:26:39,398 --> 00:26:42,078
Speaker 2: right now. You want to get it because you don't

571
00:26:42,078 --> 00:26:43,838
Speaker 2: want to well. Of course, in the playoffs the rules

572
00:26:43,878 --> 00:26:45,718
Speaker 2: are different. They're real baseball and the rules, and it's

573
00:26:45,718 --> 00:26:48,438
Speaker 2: not the guy's second base. But you have again chance

574
00:26:48,438 --> 00:26:50,958
Speaker 2: to win a game late, and you do have a

575
00:26:50,998 --> 00:26:52,878
Speaker 2: slug out there, and you got the right people coming

576
00:26:52,958 --> 00:26:53,518
Speaker 2: up afterwards.

577
00:26:53,518 --> 00:26:54,598
Speaker 3: Why not take a chance.

578
00:26:54,998 --> 00:26:57,118
Speaker 2: You're facing relief pictures right now that it's hard to

579
00:26:57,118 --> 00:26:59,878
Speaker 2: string things together against get the second base where that

580
00:26:59,878 --> 00:27:02,238
Speaker 2: blue pit wins it for you. I'm all about it,

581
00:27:02,278 --> 00:27:04,438
Speaker 2: and with the Rays, we were all about it. It's

582
00:27:04,558 --> 00:27:06,678
Speaker 2: big for me for us to lead the league in

583
00:27:06,678 --> 00:27:09,838
Speaker 2: slen bases. I love that because we had power, we

584
00:27:09,918 --> 00:27:12,158
Speaker 2: had speed, we caught the ball on defense, we had

585
00:27:12,198 --> 00:27:15,918
Speaker 2: some really good pitching. Kind of a nice equation for winning.

586
00:27:16,318 --> 00:27:20,038
Speaker 2: But we encouraged it, and nobody lost their minds when

587
00:27:20,078 --> 00:27:22,678
Speaker 2: somebody got thrown out in a tough situation.

588
00:27:23,478 --> 00:27:27,758
Speaker 1: Baseball is the greatest game. It's the greatest game because

589
00:27:27,798 --> 00:27:30,478
Speaker 1: it's more than just the action. Every game, every sport

590
00:27:30,518 --> 00:27:33,758
Speaker 1: has action, and that's why we love sports. But baseball,

591
00:27:33,878 --> 00:27:38,398
Speaker 1: besides the action is great because the anticipation of action

592
00:27:38,838 --> 00:27:43,198
Speaker 1: is almost as important and as thrilling as the action itself.

593
00:27:43,918 --> 00:27:47,598
Speaker 1: And the return of the stolen base turned what was

594
00:27:47,638 --> 00:27:50,638
Speaker 1: an a nerd game, a static game, into a dynamic

595
00:27:50,718 --> 00:27:53,678
Speaker 1: game where now you're thinking, hey, he might run here.

596
00:27:54,118 --> 00:27:56,278
Speaker 1: I mean first and third, two outs, two strikes in

597
00:27:56,318 --> 00:27:58,838
Speaker 1: the batter is an obvious run situation. Now in the game,

598
00:27:58,878 --> 00:28:03,518
Speaker 1: everybody's running. Guys at first base are looking for patterns

599
00:28:03,518 --> 00:28:05,598
Speaker 1: on the pitch. Sure if he throws over once, does

600
00:28:05,638 --> 00:28:08,318
Speaker 1: he double up on his throes? These are all being

601
00:28:08,318 --> 00:28:12,518
Speaker 1: scouted now. This is the anticipation of action is back

602
00:28:12,558 --> 00:28:15,878
Speaker 1: in the game. And if you go back to lou Brock,

603
00:28:15,918 --> 00:28:18,438
Speaker 1: we talked about him earlier in nineteen seventy four and

604
00:28:18,478 --> 00:28:20,638
Speaker 1: as his way to one hundred and eighteen stolen bases,

605
00:28:21,798 --> 00:28:24,358
Speaker 1: this is what he said. The most important thing about

606
00:28:24,358 --> 00:28:27,918
Speaker 1: base stealing is not the stealing of the base, but

607
00:28:28,078 --> 00:28:32,438
Speaker 1: disturbing the pitcher's concentration. If I can do that, then

608
00:28:32,478 --> 00:28:34,398
Speaker 1: the hitter will get a better pitch to swing at,

609
00:28:34,798 --> 00:28:37,438
Speaker 1: and I will get a better chance to steal. I mean,

610
00:28:37,478 --> 00:28:39,118
Speaker 1: he nailed it. This is the guy who stole one

611
00:28:39,158 --> 00:28:41,998
Speaker 1: hundred and eighteen bases. But the idea that every time

612
00:28:42,078 --> 00:28:44,958
Speaker 1: he gets on base, your attention is divided and there's

613
00:28:44,998 --> 00:28:48,918
Speaker 1: the threat of the stolen base man that is worth

614
00:28:48,918 --> 00:28:51,078
Speaker 1: a lot. As you said, going back to those Oakland

615
00:28:51,078 --> 00:28:54,798
Speaker 1: moneyball teams, the third base coach wasn't even giving signs.

616
00:28:54,798 --> 00:28:56,318
Speaker 1: There was never a hit and run. If you were

617
00:28:56,318 --> 00:28:58,638
Speaker 1: a defender, you never had to worry about vacating a

618
00:28:58,718 --> 00:29:00,638
Speaker 1: spot or keeping an eye on a runner. It made

619
00:29:00,678 --> 00:29:03,358
Speaker 1: it too easy, and frankly, it made it boring because

620
00:29:03,398 --> 00:29:06,758
Speaker 1: there was no anticipation of action. I think the game

621
00:29:06,838 --> 00:29:08,718
Speaker 1: is so much better than it was three years ago

622
00:29:08,958 --> 00:29:10,638
Speaker 1: with the anticipation of more action.

623
00:29:11,958 --> 00:29:12,798
Speaker 3: I'm in. I'm in.

624
00:29:12,838 --> 00:29:16,758
Speaker 2: I mean even a hit and run being put on occasion.

625
00:29:16,838 --> 00:29:19,678
Speaker 2: You think, facing a sinker ball pitcher, you got a

626
00:29:19,678 --> 00:29:21,718
Speaker 2: guy that has a tendency hit the ball on the ground,

627
00:29:22,758 --> 00:29:24,838
Speaker 2: it's going to be a close game based on your

628
00:29:24,918 --> 00:29:25,878
Speaker 2: pitcher and their pitcher.

629
00:29:26,358 --> 00:29:27,718
Speaker 3: But nobody wants to do that.

630
00:29:27,798 --> 00:29:30,198
Speaker 2: Nobody knows how to do that anymore, because again, if

631
00:29:30,238 --> 00:29:32,558
Speaker 2: it's swung and mister the guy gets thrown out all

632
00:29:32,558 --> 00:29:34,678
Speaker 2: of a sudden, you're a bad guy. You're a bad manager,

633
00:29:34,678 --> 00:29:38,758
Speaker 2: you're a bad baseball player. That game that's gone by

634
00:29:38,798 --> 00:29:41,318
Speaker 2: the wayside. When it works, even to get the runner

635
00:29:41,358 --> 00:29:44,718
Speaker 2: to second base with one out is also a plus

636
00:29:45,238 --> 00:29:47,038
Speaker 2: that you're saying right now. In today's game, you want

637
00:29:47,038 --> 00:29:48,958
Speaker 2: your more apt to try to steal that bag. But

638
00:29:49,038 --> 00:29:51,198
Speaker 2: for me action For me, the action would occur in

639
00:29:51,238 --> 00:29:53,118
Speaker 2: the bottom part of the batting order. I didn't want

640
00:29:53,118 --> 00:29:54,598
Speaker 2: to do all that stuff with the top part of

641
00:29:54,598 --> 00:29:56,838
Speaker 2: the batting order. Let those guys hit, But you get

642
00:29:56,838 --> 00:29:58,758
Speaker 2: the seven, eight, nine, where you get guys at a little

643
00:29:58,798 --> 00:30:01,878
Speaker 2: bit less than I wanted to try to manufacture things

644
00:30:01,878 --> 00:30:03,558
Speaker 2: with them. Yes, I wanted them to run. Yes, I

645
00:30:03,598 --> 00:30:05,758
Speaker 2: wanted to hit and run. Yes, maybe a bunt for hit,

646
00:30:05,878 --> 00:30:09,198
Speaker 2: maybe even sacrifice spunt. If these guys aren't as proficient,

647
00:30:09,438 --> 00:30:12,358
Speaker 2: why not why the whole batting order should is not

648
00:30:12,398 --> 00:30:14,998
Speaker 2: gonna always it should not. It's not gonna work the same.

649
00:30:14,998 --> 00:30:17,278
Speaker 2: You're not gonna have the same kind of output from

650
00:30:17,318 --> 00:30:19,358
Speaker 2: the one through nine you're gonna have. You know, your

651
00:30:19,398 --> 00:30:21,678
Speaker 2: banger's up top in the middle, there's your RBI. Dudes,

652
00:30:21,718 --> 00:30:24,318
Speaker 2: Sometimes when he gets to the bottom n have some fun,

653
00:30:24,478 --> 00:30:28,158
Speaker 2: put some pressure, make them think safety squeeze. I brought

654
00:30:28,158 --> 00:30:30,438
Speaker 2: that back because I saw the Yankees do it and

655
00:30:30,518 --> 00:30:32,798
Speaker 2: Zim taught me. And God did that put a lot

656
00:30:32,798 --> 00:30:34,998
Speaker 2: of pressure on other teams. And what happens in TC.

657
00:30:35,078 --> 00:30:37,838
Speaker 2: To Brian Butterfield when he was the defensive guy with

658
00:30:37,918 --> 00:30:41,838
Speaker 2: the Blue Jays, he said, when we played your teams.

659
00:30:41,518 --> 00:30:43,438
Speaker 3: Because he eventually became my third base.

660
00:30:43,238 --> 00:30:45,638
Speaker 2: Coach, it took us so much longer to prep. And

661
00:30:45,798 --> 00:30:48,278
Speaker 2: just like you're saying what Brock was talking about, give

662
00:30:48,358 --> 00:30:50,838
Speaker 2: them something to think about, plant the seed of doubt.

663
00:30:50,918 --> 00:30:54,198
Speaker 2: The less you attempt to do the less, the less

664
00:30:54,278 --> 00:30:57,398
Speaker 2: problems you give the other team in advance of playing them,

665
00:30:57,798 --> 00:30:59,438
Speaker 2: the easier just to prep for you. And then we

666
00:30:59,478 --> 00:31:01,518
Speaker 2: could just focus on the things that were really good

667
00:31:01,518 --> 00:31:03,958
Speaker 2: at Again, when I play against the team like we

668
00:31:04,078 --> 00:31:05,958
Speaker 2: had been, I would reduce it and I tell them

669
00:31:06,038 --> 00:31:08,158
Speaker 2: not to worry about that. Let them do that. We'll

670
00:31:08,198 --> 00:31:10,398
Speaker 2: pitch out on occasion. We'll give them, we'll give them

671
00:31:10,398 --> 00:31:12,238
Speaker 2: something to think about. But I don't want to changing

672
00:31:12,318 --> 00:31:14,678
Speaker 2: what we do well because the other team does these

673
00:31:14,718 --> 00:31:18,158
Speaker 2: other things well. But as a manager, I wanted everybody

674
00:31:18,198 --> 00:31:20,558
Speaker 2: to change what they were doing because of things that

675
00:31:20,638 --> 00:31:21,478
Speaker 2: we did well.

676
00:31:21,918 --> 00:31:25,078
Speaker 1: I hope the future of baseball is the Milwaukee Brewers.

677
00:31:25,718 --> 00:31:29,158
Speaker 1: Watch the Milwaukee Brewers play baseball, folks. First of all,

678
00:31:29,238 --> 00:31:33,518
Speaker 1: they're the fastest team in baseball. The team speed measurably

679
00:31:33,838 --> 00:31:36,798
Speaker 1: is the fastest in baseball. Top three in stolen bases.

680
00:31:36,838 --> 00:31:39,238
Speaker 1: They have one hundred and seventy six stolen bases in

681
00:31:39,278 --> 00:31:42,638
Speaker 1: their first one hundred and thirty seven games. They have

682
00:31:42,758 --> 00:31:45,758
Speaker 1: more hits with runners on base than any team in baseball.

683
00:31:46,558 --> 00:31:49,998
Speaker 1: They're top four and two strike hitting. They have a

684
00:31:50,118 --> 00:31:53,958
Speaker 1: top two bullpen. They throw more fastballs on the mound

685
00:31:54,318 --> 00:31:58,158
Speaker 1: than any team in baseball. You just watch this team play, man,

686
00:31:58,238 --> 00:31:59,638
Speaker 1: and they are coming after you.

687
00:31:59,838 --> 00:32:00,998
Speaker 3: Love that. You know.

688
00:32:01,038 --> 00:32:03,238
Speaker 1: They put other teams on their heels. They can run

689
00:32:03,278 --> 00:32:07,438
Speaker 1: you off the field. Their defense is number three in

690
00:32:07,478 --> 00:32:11,118
Speaker 1: defensive efficiency. That's turning battered balls into outs. They run

691
00:32:11,198 --> 00:32:14,558
Speaker 1: down everything. This is what you're talking about, Joe, and

692
00:32:14,598 --> 00:32:16,998
Speaker 1: giving the other team a handful of things to guard

693
00:32:17,038 --> 00:32:20,438
Speaker 1: against and defend. When you can put the ball in play,

694
00:32:20,958 --> 00:32:23,758
Speaker 1: when you are not afraid to make outs on the bases,

695
00:32:23,758 --> 00:32:26,198
Speaker 1: and they will make them outs on the bases. But man,

696
00:32:26,238 --> 00:32:30,398
Speaker 1: they put tremendous pressure on you. So I hope that

697
00:32:30,438 --> 00:32:32,638
Speaker 1: the Milwaukee Brewers are the future of baseball.

698
00:32:32,718 --> 00:32:32,878
Speaker 3: Now.

699
00:32:32,918 --> 00:32:37,718
Speaker 1: Listen, I understand is payroll dependent, right. Power is expensive.

700
00:32:37,758 --> 00:32:40,398
Speaker 1: If you look at the top home run team's home

701
00:32:40,478 --> 00:32:43,358
Speaker 1: run hitting teams in baseball, You've got the Dodgers, You've

702
00:32:43,358 --> 00:32:45,638
Speaker 1: got the Braids, you get the Yankees. Those teams up.

703
00:32:45,638 --> 00:32:48,278
Speaker 1: Their power is expensive. If you don't have the money

704
00:32:48,278 --> 00:32:50,598
Speaker 1: to buy power, you need to find other ways to win.

705
00:32:50,678 --> 00:32:53,758
Speaker 1: It's exactly what the Milwaukee Brewers are doing. They're seventeenth

706
00:32:53,838 --> 00:32:56,718
Speaker 1: in home run in home runs, they're bottom of the pack,

707
00:32:56,798 --> 00:33:00,118
Speaker 1: bottom ten and slugging percentage, but they're fourth in the

708
00:33:00,158 --> 00:33:02,358
Speaker 1: major leagues and runs per game because they put the

709
00:33:02,398 --> 00:33:04,238
Speaker 1: ball in play and they run the bases, played the

710
00:33:04,278 --> 00:33:06,478
Speaker 1: game like a college team. I hope that's more of

711
00:33:06,518 --> 00:33:08,038
Speaker 1: the future of baseball.

712
00:33:07,998 --> 00:33:13,038
Speaker 2: The Milwaukee Rays. I've thought that all along, and Murph

713
00:33:13,118 --> 00:33:15,118
Speaker 2: has got that kind of a background. He's got the

714
00:33:15,158 --> 00:33:17,198
Speaker 2: collegiate background. That's the kind of game he would play

715
00:33:17,198 --> 00:33:19,918
Speaker 2: at Notre Dame or whatever. That's what you're saying. You're

716
00:33:19,958 --> 00:33:24,398
Speaker 2: seeing an aggressive, very grassroots method of playing baseball. I

717
00:33:24,478 --> 00:33:27,198
Speaker 2: thought they resemble the Rays as much as the Rays

718
00:33:27,198 --> 00:33:29,238
Speaker 2: and Matt Arnold being in the front office. Matty was

719
00:33:29,278 --> 00:33:33,158
Speaker 2: around that stuff for a long time with us playing

720
00:33:33,198 --> 00:33:35,238
Speaker 2: when he was in the front office down there, which

721
00:33:35,238 --> 00:33:36,838
Speaker 2: I've also described, is what I've always said.

722
00:33:36,838 --> 00:33:38,398
Speaker 3: I want it all. I want it all.

723
00:33:38,398 --> 00:33:41,038
Speaker 2: I want speed, I want defense, I want pitching, and

724
00:33:41,598 --> 00:33:44,078
Speaker 2: I want power. Why can't you have it all? Why

725
00:33:44,158 --> 00:33:46,958
Speaker 2: can't you nurture a group that does all those different things?

726
00:33:46,958 --> 00:33:50,118
Speaker 2: To me, I think you can. I think any group

727
00:33:50,158 --> 00:33:52,198
Speaker 2: in baseball can do that if they really put their

728
00:33:52,598 --> 00:33:55,358
Speaker 2: mind and effort to it. It goes back down to

729
00:33:56,198 --> 00:33:59,078
Speaker 2: even just scouting and drafting. I should tell theo Epstein,

730
00:33:59,518 --> 00:34:01,398
Speaker 2: I said, okay, how many rounds? At that time there

731
00:34:01,438 --> 00:34:04,158
Speaker 2: was forty rounds. They said, okay, why not rounds thirty

732
00:34:04,238 --> 00:34:06,958
Speaker 2: to forty. You just take absolute athletes like the Kansas

733
00:34:06,998 --> 00:34:09,558
Speaker 2: City Royals Academy concept with that back in the day

734
00:34:09,598 --> 00:34:11,158
Speaker 2: where they took athletes to try to make them.

735
00:34:11,038 --> 00:34:13,118
Speaker 3: Into baseball players. Just take a bunch of.

736
00:34:13,198 --> 00:34:15,838
Speaker 2: Speed dudes thirty to forty, and if you hit on

737
00:34:15,838 --> 00:34:18,638
Speaker 2: one a year over four or five years, you've got

738
00:34:18,638 --> 00:34:21,758
Speaker 2: four or five dudes that can really impact the baseball game.

739
00:34:22,118 --> 00:34:25,598
Speaker 2: With all these different kind of crazy tools. So yes,

740
00:34:25,838 --> 00:34:28,318
Speaker 2: I love the way Milwaukee's doing it, the Milwaukee Rays.

741
00:34:28,918 --> 00:34:29,638
Speaker 3: I want it all.

742
00:34:29,758 --> 00:34:31,478
Speaker 2: I don't want to just pigeonhole to one thing or

743
00:34:31,478 --> 00:34:31,758
Speaker 2: the other.

744
00:34:32,078 --> 00:34:35,398
Speaker 1: Yeah, the last team and hopefully stolen base now Joe

745
00:34:35,558 --> 00:34:38,958
Speaker 1: is valued in the game as part of winning baseball

746
00:34:39,118 --> 00:34:41,318
Speaker 1: and not just by necessity. Oh, we don't have power,

747
00:34:41,438 --> 00:34:43,718
Speaker 1: so we have to run, but understanding that that's the

748
00:34:43,758 --> 00:34:46,558
Speaker 1: way to win baseball games with. As you said, you

749
00:34:46,558 --> 00:34:48,758
Speaker 1: want it all, you want a blend of some power.

750
00:34:48,878 --> 00:34:49,238
Speaker 3: Correct.

751
00:34:49,438 --> 00:34:52,198
Speaker 1: But the last team that won the World Series that

752
00:34:52,318 --> 00:34:55,998
Speaker 1: stole more than one base per game, it's been thirty

753
00:34:56,038 --> 00:34:58,238
Speaker 1: one years. You got to go back to the ninety

754
00:34:58,278 --> 00:35:01,478
Speaker 1: three Blue Jays to find a team that ran that much.

755
00:35:01,638 --> 00:35:04,438
Speaker 1: Think about the Big Red Machine in the nineteen seventies.

756
00:35:05,398 --> 00:35:08,438
Speaker 1: The nineteen seventy six of Reds stole two hundred and

757
00:35:08,638 --> 00:35:13,438
Speaker 1: ten bases. I mean, no one, no World champion has

758
00:35:13,598 --> 00:35:15,838
Speaker 1: stolen that many bases since then. And we think about

759
00:35:15,878 --> 00:35:18,038
Speaker 1: the Big Red Machine as a power laden team, and

760
00:35:18,078 --> 00:35:22,358
Speaker 1: they were, but they ran as well. So this year,

761
00:35:22,478 --> 00:35:26,998
Speaker 1: for instance, you've got the Brewers have more than one

762
00:35:27,038 --> 00:35:29,358
Speaker 1: stolen base per game, but let's drop the number down

763
00:35:29,398 --> 00:35:31,678
Speaker 1: to one hundred stolen bases. The last team that stole

764
00:35:31,718 --> 00:35:34,078
Speaker 1: even one hundred bases and won the World Series was

765
00:35:34,118 --> 00:35:38,198
Speaker 1: the Nationals in nineteen. This year, there's only five contenders

766
00:35:38,278 --> 00:35:40,838
Speaker 1: who are not on pace or already there at one

767
00:35:40,918 --> 00:35:44,598
Speaker 1: hundred bags. The Braves, the Yankees, the Twins, the Astros,

768
00:35:44,678 --> 00:35:47,638
Speaker 1: and the Orioles, power laden teams that don't have a

769
00:35:47,678 --> 00:35:50,758
Speaker 1: lot of teams speed. Other than that, most of your

770
00:35:50,758 --> 00:35:53,918
Speaker 1: contenders are stealing bases these days, and I think it's

771
00:35:53,958 --> 00:35:56,198
Speaker 1: a much better game for it. And I hope when

772
00:35:56,238 --> 00:35:58,878
Speaker 1: we get to the postseason these teams decide it's not

773
00:35:59,078 --> 00:36:01,198
Speaker 1: you know, we shouldn't risk it now because the postseason

774
00:36:01,238 --> 00:36:03,198
Speaker 1: games mean Moore, no player game.

775
00:36:03,478 --> 00:36:05,918
Speaker 2: That's right, play your game, don't put in your back pocket.

776
00:36:07,398 --> 00:36:09,318
Speaker 2: All those things you're talking about. I love to see

777
00:36:09,358 --> 00:36:11,678
Speaker 2: that trend. And like I'm saying, you could nurture all this,

778
00:36:11,838 --> 00:36:15,278
Speaker 2: Every organization can nurture all these different components if they

779
00:36:15,358 --> 00:36:17,678
Speaker 2: choose to do so. I know power plays, I know

780
00:36:17,798 --> 00:36:20,398
Speaker 2: power wins home and games, and I want that, That's

781
00:36:20,438 --> 00:36:22,758
Speaker 2: what I'm saying I want at all. But there's days

782
00:36:22,758 --> 00:36:25,958
Speaker 2: that doesn't work. Power does not show up, and you

783
00:36:26,038 --> 00:36:27,958
Speaker 2: have to be able to do different things in order

784
00:36:27,998 --> 00:36:30,758
Speaker 2: to win games. A guy hits thirty home runs on

785
00:36:30,798 --> 00:36:33,758
Speaker 2: an annual basis, he's considered power hitter. Very nice, What

786
00:36:33,798 --> 00:36:35,398
Speaker 2: did you do with the other five hundred and sixty

787
00:36:35,398 --> 00:36:36,118
Speaker 2: played appearances?

788
00:36:36,158 --> 00:36:36,918
Speaker 3: That's what I want to know.

789
00:36:37,358 --> 00:36:39,918
Speaker 2: I mean, that's ever even spoken about. Isn't there Isn't

790
00:36:39,918 --> 00:36:42,558
Speaker 2: there some positive utility about that too?

791
00:36:43,078 --> 00:36:43,958
Speaker 3: I don't get that.

792
00:36:44,038 --> 00:36:46,078
Speaker 2: I don't understand why that's not nurture that you talked

793
00:36:46,118 --> 00:36:49,238
Speaker 2: about the least number of strikeouts having a two strike approach.

794
00:36:49,398 --> 00:36:52,478
Speaker 2: I love that move the baseball put pressure on the defense.

795
00:36:52,678 --> 00:36:55,198
Speaker 2: If you constantly pressure the defense and give them something

796
00:36:55,198 --> 00:36:57,838
Speaker 2: to think about, eventually you're gonna win more of these

797
00:36:57,878 --> 00:37:01,318
Speaker 2: close games because you're facing good pitching. Man, And when

798
00:37:01,318 --> 00:37:03,798
Speaker 2: you get to the playoffs, you're facing nothing but good pitching.

799
00:37:04,118 --> 00:37:05,838
Speaker 2: And some nights you have to be a little bit

800
00:37:05,838 --> 00:37:08,118
Speaker 2: creative to win those games. You can't always rely on

801
00:37:08,158 --> 00:37:10,238
Speaker 2: the big ball. So I don't even know how these

802
00:37:10,518 --> 00:37:15,158
Speaker 2: stats breakdown, or they're they're they're they're eventually derived because

803
00:37:15,198 --> 00:37:18,318
Speaker 2: of they win because of this, or they do win

804
00:37:18,358 --> 00:37:21,358
Speaker 2: because of that. But I just want I know that

805
00:37:21,398 --> 00:37:23,518
Speaker 2: there's nights I want to be able to put pressure

806
00:37:23,518 --> 00:37:25,478
Speaker 2: on the other team on the basis because we're not

807
00:37:25,478 --> 00:37:27,718
Speaker 2: gonna hit a hole money against these dudes. And some

808
00:37:27,958 --> 00:37:29,798
Speaker 2: nights the pitcher, we're just going to beat the crap

809
00:37:29,838 --> 00:37:31,918
Speaker 2: out of him because he's not good enough. But we're

810
00:37:31,918 --> 00:37:33,878
Speaker 2: just going to power the baseball. And then all of

811
00:37:33,878 --> 00:37:36,718
Speaker 2: a sudden, is that skew the statistical numbers because you

812
00:37:36,798 --> 00:37:38,758
Speaker 2: get so many on one day and none on the

813
00:37:38,758 --> 00:37:41,078
Speaker 2: next two weeks. I don't know, but all I know

814
00:37:41,158 --> 00:37:42,998
Speaker 2: is I want it all I want, and I know

815
00:37:43,038 --> 00:37:45,678
Speaker 2: it could be nurtured. I've been there, done that, and

816
00:37:45,718 --> 00:37:47,758
Speaker 2: I'd like it's on the right path. I agree with

817
00:37:47,798 --> 00:37:50,198
Speaker 2: you right there. For me, i'd have preferred it being

818
00:37:50,198 --> 00:37:52,798
Speaker 2: done without having to change the rules. But if that's

819
00:37:52,838 --> 00:37:54,038
Speaker 2: the way it has to be, so be it.

820
00:37:54,478 --> 00:37:55,998
Speaker 1: I'm going to take a page out of the Joe

821
00:37:56,078 --> 00:37:58,358
Speaker 1: Madden playbook and give you one of my favorite quotes.

822
00:37:58,438 --> 00:38:01,278
Speaker 1: That's from Winston Churchill. He reminded me of this, Joe,

823
00:38:01,798 --> 00:38:04,878
Speaker 1: I am easily satisfied with the very best.

824
00:38:05,198 --> 00:38:05,638
Speaker 3: There you go.

825
00:38:05,878 --> 00:38:09,838
Speaker 2: That's it that does. That satiates all your difficulties and problems.

826
00:38:09,838 --> 00:38:11,558
Speaker 2: It puts you in the right frame of mind. And

827
00:38:11,638 --> 00:38:13,158
Speaker 2: I'll have a drink with Witsten to that.

828
00:38:13,278 --> 00:38:16,438
Speaker 1: At some point, Hey, listen, we started talking about September.

829
00:38:16,518 --> 00:38:19,198
Speaker 1: This is actually the last month they'll be playing baseball

830
00:38:19,238 --> 00:38:21,838
Speaker 1: in the city of Oakland. The Oakland A's are facing

831
00:38:21,878 --> 00:38:25,358
Speaker 1: their last month in that city. Times change, and we

832
00:38:25,438 --> 00:38:38,998
Speaker 1: will talk about that. Right after this, Joe, I mentioned

833
00:38:38,998 --> 00:38:42,038
Speaker 1: the Oakland A's facing their last month in Oakland. They'll

834
00:38:42,038 --> 00:38:45,718
Speaker 1: be playing in Sacramento next year, outdoors in the heat

835
00:38:45,758 --> 00:38:49,678
Speaker 1: of the summer on an artificial turf field. Yeah, good

836
00:38:49,758 --> 00:38:53,038
Speaker 1: luck with that. But you know, hopefully they will work

837
00:38:53,038 --> 00:38:55,838
Speaker 1: out a move to Las Vegas. It's a shame. Obviously,

838
00:38:55,918 --> 00:38:58,038
Speaker 1: Oakland's got a great baseball history. I grew up an

839
00:38:58,078 --> 00:39:01,158
Speaker 1: Oakland A's fan. I love the uniforms Bert camp and

840
00:39:01,158 --> 00:39:04,278
Speaker 1: Eris is one of my favorite players. But as I mentioned, Joe,

841
00:39:04,318 --> 00:39:08,358
Speaker 1: you know, things change. You know, the world is not static,

842
00:39:08,398 --> 00:39:10,998
Speaker 1: Our lives are not static. We move on, things evolve.

843
00:39:11,718 --> 00:39:14,678
Speaker 1: And a couple of news items caught my attention this

844
00:39:14,718 --> 00:39:17,878
Speaker 1: week in that regard besides Oakland, Joe, and one of

845
00:39:17,918 --> 00:39:21,958
Speaker 1: them involves Volkswagen. You think about Volkswagen is as German

846
00:39:21,958 --> 00:39:25,278
Speaker 1: as anything. Right, They are now talking about for the

847
00:39:25,278 --> 00:39:29,358
Speaker 1: first time closing a plant in Germany and maybe more

848
00:39:29,398 --> 00:39:33,078
Speaker 1: than one. You know, they're on hard times. They've been

849
00:39:33,118 --> 00:39:35,598
Speaker 1: the worst performer over the last five years of any

850
00:39:35,998 --> 00:39:39,878
Speaker 1: European car maker. They were late getting into the EV game,

851
00:39:39,918 --> 00:39:42,078
Speaker 1: and they're getting crushed in China, which they used to

852
00:39:42,118 --> 00:39:45,278
Speaker 1: own in the EV game. They've got a lot of

853
00:39:45,318 --> 00:39:48,438
Speaker 1: problems and this is a country where it's not easy

854
00:39:48,478 --> 00:39:51,358
Speaker 1: to lay people off. In fact, Volkswagen had a promise

855
00:39:51,438 --> 00:39:53,398
Speaker 1: through I think twenty twenty nine that they would not

856
00:39:53,518 --> 00:39:56,238
Speaker 1: lay people off. Now they're almost ready to go back

857
00:39:56,278 --> 00:40:00,718
Speaker 1: on that because times are so tough. Volkswagen without a

858
00:40:00,718 --> 00:40:04,878
Speaker 1: plant in Germany. Yeah, that's even more shocking that say,

859
00:40:05,078 --> 00:40:08,318
Speaker 1: the a's not playing in Oakland, and the other involves

860
00:40:08,598 --> 00:40:12,158
Speaker 1: US Steel. I mean, what's more American than US Steel

861
00:40:12,158 --> 00:40:15,958
Speaker 1: founded in nineteen oh one by JP Morgan. They're up

862
00:40:15,998 --> 00:40:18,998
Speaker 1: for sale. In case you got fifteen bills sitting around,

863
00:40:19,078 --> 00:40:23,678
Speaker 1: Joe Knipon Steele from Japan does have fifteen billion around

864
00:40:23,718 --> 00:40:28,078
Speaker 1: and they want to buy US Steel. And politicians in

865
00:40:28,118 --> 00:40:31,038
Speaker 1: this country are saying, well, wait a second, and we

866
00:40:31,078 --> 00:40:33,318
Speaker 1: don't know if we want to sell this American icon

867
00:40:33,758 --> 00:40:38,078
Speaker 1: to a Japanese based company. Now China again makes more

868
00:40:38,118 --> 00:40:40,838
Speaker 1: than half the world steel. US Steel is not what

869
00:40:40,878 --> 00:40:43,238
Speaker 1: it was by any means, but they need help. They

870
00:40:43,238 --> 00:40:45,158
Speaker 1: need somebody to come in and buy them out. I mean,

871
00:40:45,198 --> 00:40:47,838
Speaker 1: this is a company you talk about, Iconic Joe. They

872
00:40:47,918 --> 00:40:51,718
Speaker 1: built the Unisphere in Flushing Meadows for the sixty four

873
00:40:51,718 --> 00:40:54,038
Speaker 1: Worlds Fear in New York. That's the world's biggest globe.

874
00:40:54,158 --> 00:40:57,718
Speaker 1: The Picasso Sculpture in Chicago was built by US Steel

875
00:40:57,838 --> 00:41:01,078
Speaker 1: in Gary, Indiana and shipped over there to Chicago. I mean,

876
00:41:01,078 --> 00:41:03,318
Speaker 1: that is American and people are having a hard time

877
00:41:03,478 --> 00:41:06,718
Speaker 1: dealing with the idea that it might be owned by

878
00:41:06,838 --> 00:41:07,838
Speaker 1: Japanese company.

879
00:41:08,438 --> 00:41:12,038
Speaker 2: And the famous words of Julie Franzosa, former social studies

880
00:41:12,038 --> 00:41:14,278
Speaker 2: teacher at Hazelton High School, things are better when they

881
00:41:14,318 --> 00:41:17,998
Speaker 2: were worse. You're describing progress as people see it, or change.

882
00:41:18,318 --> 00:41:21,718
Speaker 2: That's why I always argue just distributing a positive connotation

883
00:41:21,798 --> 00:41:24,238
Speaker 2: to the word change, to me, is not always accurate

884
00:41:24,638 --> 00:41:25,318
Speaker 2: or progressive.

885
00:41:25,358 --> 00:41:27,638
Speaker 3: It's not always accurate. It's not accurate.

886
00:41:28,118 --> 00:41:32,558
Speaker 2: It's a word that things are changing for different reasons,

887
00:41:33,118 --> 00:41:35,998
Speaker 2: or they're progressing down a different road. It doesn't mean

888
00:41:36,038 --> 00:41:38,878
Speaker 2: they're progressing in a way that's going to be beneficial

889
00:41:38,958 --> 00:41:42,038
Speaker 2: to a large group of people, and it's not necessarily

890
00:41:42,038 --> 00:41:44,518
Speaker 2: going to make things better. You can make things better

891
00:41:44,558 --> 00:41:47,398
Speaker 2: for a certain group, but not necessarily for the group

892
00:41:47,438 --> 00:41:49,678
Speaker 2: that you really want to take care of. I was

893
00:41:49,678 --> 00:41:52,158
Speaker 2: down in Bethlehem recently, had to go down there to

894
00:41:52,158 --> 00:41:56,558
Speaker 2: do some things. But by Allentown and Bethlehem, Steele is

895
00:41:57,878 --> 00:42:00,438
Speaker 2: just a big skeleton. It almost looks like Armageddon. It

896
00:42:00,438 --> 00:42:03,838
Speaker 2: looks like they might have filmed a Schwarzenegger movie there.

897
00:42:04,118 --> 00:42:06,918
Speaker 2: It's got that look to it. It's just rusty, old,

898
00:42:07,478 --> 00:42:13,518
Speaker 2: huge facility that doesn't operate or exist anymore. I mean,

899
00:42:13,558 --> 00:42:17,798
Speaker 2: for me, throwing jobs just everywhere and anywhere and permitting

900
00:42:17,878 --> 00:42:21,038
Speaker 2: just anybody to come in. That does bother me. Quite frankly,

901
00:42:21,038 --> 00:42:22,958
Speaker 2: it does. I don't understand that, and I'm not going

902
00:42:22,998 --> 00:42:24,838
Speaker 2: to be convinced or sway that it is the right

903
00:42:24,878 --> 00:42:27,198
Speaker 2: way to do business or do things for the sake

904
00:42:27,518 --> 00:42:29,318
Speaker 2: of what we're doing here in the United States and

905
00:42:29,398 --> 00:42:31,638
Speaker 2: have been for years, you know, we could go back

906
00:42:31,638 --> 00:42:33,878
Speaker 2: to the point where our fathers did fight. We've got

907
00:42:33,918 --> 00:42:35,678
Speaker 2: a pretty good thing going on here. We still do.

908
00:42:36,038 --> 00:42:37,838
Speaker 2: We've got to be careful that we just don't give

909
00:42:37,918 --> 00:42:41,198
Speaker 2: up everything that we've worked for for the sake of

910
00:42:41,318 --> 00:42:46,278
Speaker 2: progress and change, which to me is especially with the

911
00:42:46,598 --> 00:42:49,158
Speaker 2: social media method that is in place today, it's so

912
00:42:49,238 --> 00:42:52,118
Speaker 2: easy to attempt to sway people to believe what certain

913
00:42:52,158 --> 00:42:55,238
Speaker 2: groups think. The elitist group might think something, and all

914
00:42:55,238 --> 00:42:58,038
Speaker 2: of a sudden, you're pushing your agenda on everybody else

915
00:42:58,598 --> 00:43:01,758
Speaker 2: under the preceptor concept that it's going to be better

916
00:43:01,798 --> 00:43:03,638
Speaker 2: than not necessarily true.

917
00:43:04,038 --> 00:43:05,398
Speaker 3: So always be careful with these.

918
00:43:05,998 --> 00:43:09,318
Speaker 2: I read a lot. I don't know everything by any means,

919
00:43:09,358 --> 00:43:12,278
Speaker 2: And when it comes to big business exchanges like this,

920
00:43:12,358 --> 00:43:15,278
Speaker 2: of course I don't know everything about it. But I

921
00:43:15,318 --> 00:43:18,118
Speaker 2: do drive around Hazelton and I see what my city's like,

922
00:43:18,718 --> 00:43:21,518
Speaker 2: and I have to easily say things were better when

923
00:43:21,518 --> 00:43:25,878
Speaker 2: they were worse when things weren't as technologically advanced. I

924
00:43:25,958 --> 00:43:29,278
Speaker 2: like technology for medicine, absolutely I do. I love technology again,

925
00:43:29,318 --> 00:43:31,638
Speaker 2: maybe for self defense, absolutely I do. There's a lot

926
00:43:31,638 --> 00:43:34,198
Speaker 2: of reasons why you like technology. But then again to

927
00:43:34,478 --> 00:43:37,038
Speaker 2: just change things around just for the sake of change.

928
00:43:37,278 --> 00:43:40,918
Speaker 2: And we're social media, like you have bullying and kids

929
00:43:40,918 --> 00:43:44,478
Speaker 2: committing suicide, all these different things that are the product

930
00:43:45,478 --> 00:43:49,158
Speaker 2: of advancement. It's very concerning. We've got to wrap our

931
00:43:49,158 --> 00:43:52,278
Speaker 2: minds around and understand, and somebody's got to lead. Somebody's

932
00:43:52,278 --> 00:43:54,638
Speaker 2: got to lead us to the right answers with all this,

933
00:43:54,718 --> 00:43:55,838
Speaker 2: And these are my concerns.

934
00:43:56,158 --> 00:43:57,758
Speaker 3: So I do agree with Julie.

935
00:43:57,758 --> 00:43:59,278
Speaker 2: Things are better when they were worse, and so I

936
00:43:59,318 --> 00:44:02,438
Speaker 2: am concerned about things like this where US steel is

937
00:44:02,438 --> 00:44:05,038
Speaker 2: going to be bought by a Japanese I just don't

938
00:44:05,118 --> 00:44:06,038
Speaker 2: quite understand that.

939
00:44:06,278 --> 00:44:08,198
Speaker 1: Joe. You strike me as a Steelers fan. Are you

940
00:44:08,278 --> 00:44:11,398
Speaker 1: a Steelers fan? Pittsburgh Steelers, I am not. I.

941
00:44:11,638 --> 00:44:13,078
Speaker 3: I grew up a football Cardinal fan.

942
00:44:13,158 --> 00:44:16,918
Speaker 2: Actually, when they were in Saint Louis, I loved everything

943
00:44:16,958 --> 00:44:19,598
Speaker 2: Saint Louis Cardinal football, Cardinal baseball.

944
00:44:19,598 --> 00:44:21,438
Speaker 3: As Saint Louis Hawks, and it was blues.

945
00:44:21,758 --> 00:44:24,118
Speaker 2: I even liked the Sant Louis Billikens because my dad

946
00:44:24,118 --> 00:44:27,358
Speaker 2: bought me an age Cardinal had in nineteen sixty three

947
00:44:27,438 --> 00:44:28,198
Speaker 2: Yankee Stadium.

948
00:44:28,478 --> 00:44:30,638
Speaker 1: Well, I should have phrased it better. Maybe you're a

949
00:44:30,678 --> 00:44:33,478
Speaker 1: fan of the Steelers' logo, the helmets.

950
00:44:33,518 --> 00:44:37,238
Speaker 3: I love it absolutely, okaystanding.

951
00:44:36,438 --> 00:44:40,918
Speaker 1: There's a great story behind. Obviously, the steel industry came

952
00:44:40,958 --> 00:44:43,958
Speaker 1: out with this steel logo it has. By the way,

953
00:44:43,958 --> 00:44:47,638
Speaker 1: they're called hypocycloids. They look like asteroids as yeah, or

954
00:44:47,798 --> 00:44:51,958
Speaker 1: sort of diamonds. Right, they're three different colors, and they

955
00:44:52,078 --> 00:44:54,558
Speaker 1: chose the color as because those were the three materials

956
00:44:54,598 --> 00:44:57,798
Speaker 1: I used to produce steel. Yellow for coal, orange for ore,

957
00:44:57,958 --> 00:45:01,398
Speaker 1: and blue for steel scrap. Well, that's how they make steel.

958
00:45:01,558 --> 00:45:05,078
Speaker 1: So in nineteen sixty two, the Steeler were wearing gold

959
00:45:05,158 --> 00:45:10,078
Speaker 1: helmets and there was a steel company that said, you

960
00:45:10,118 --> 00:45:14,158
Speaker 1: guys should use the Steel logo on your helmets. Of course,

961
00:45:14,238 --> 00:45:18,158
Speaker 1: Art Rooney, longtime owner of the Steelers, said yeah, that's

962
00:45:18,158 --> 00:45:20,678
Speaker 1: a pretty good idea. And the equipment manager said to

963
00:45:20,758 --> 00:45:23,598
Speaker 1: Art Rooney, you know what, let's just try it out

964
00:45:23,638 --> 00:45:26,358
Speaker 1: for a year. We'll just put it on one side

965
00:45:26,358 --> 00:45:29,518
Speaker 1: of the helmet. So they tried it out for a year.

966
00:45:29,598 --> 00:45:32,078
Speaker 1: Guess what, it was a huge hit. And then they

967
00:45:32,118 --> 00:45:34,678
Speaker 1: went to the black helmets right after that and it's

968
00:45:34,678 --> 00:45:36,998
Speaker 1: been the same ever since, one side of the helmet.

969
00:45:37,638 --> 00:45:40,518
Speaker 1: By the way, Steeler fans, you're probably not gonna like this,

970
00:45:41,278 --> 00:45:44,158
Speaker 1: but the team that suggested to the Steelers that they

971
00:45:44,278 --> 00:45:46,838
Speaker 1: used the steel logo on their helmets, the company that

972
00:45:46,918 --> 00:45:52,238
Speaker 1: suggested it, they're from Cleveland. Republic Steel of Cleveland was

973
00:45:52,278 --> 00:45:54,438
Speaker 1: the one who went to the Pittsburgh Steelers and say, hey,

974
00:45:54,438 --> 00:45:55,758
Speaker 1: why don't you guys use this logo?

975
00:45:56,078 --> 00:45:58,038
Speaker 2: I love it, I mean, and to do it on

976
00:45:58,038 --> 00:46:00,038
Speaker 2: one side of the helmet that was like pure genius,

977
00:46:00,038 --> 00:46:00,358
Speaker 2: wasn't it.

978
00:46:00,358 --> 00:46:02,278
Speaker 3: I mean gene right exactly.

979
00:46:02,358 --> 00:46:04,518
Speaker 2: So I've always been a big fan of all of that,

980
00:46:05,198 --> 00:46:08,678
Speaker 2: their organization, how they do things up to this point.

981
00:46:08,678 --> 00:46:10,438
Speaker 2: The fact that they've only had what three coaches over

982
00:46:10,478 --> 00:46:13,118
Speaker 2: the last how many every years? Coach Tomlin right now,

983
00:46:13,158 --> 00:46:15,278
Speaker 2: I know, I know him. I've talked with him and

984
00:46:15,598 --> 00:46:18,038
Speaker 2: some of his staff. Afraid of Roberts, one of his

985
00:46:18,318 --> 00:46:20,638
Speaker 2: coaches is a good friend of mine. It's it's so

986
00:46:21,278 --> 00:46:25,118
Speaker 2: stuck reaped and heaping and tradition, Steeler fans, Stealer fans,

987
00:46:25,118 --> 00:46:27,958
Speaker 2: Stillers and in the burg. All the things that they

988
00:46:27,998 --> 00:46:31,278
Speaker 2: got going on there is fabulous. And I've never been

989
00:46:31,318 --> 00:46:35,358
Speaker 2: a fan. I was really admired their their decade of

990
00:46:35,478 --> 00:46:37,438
Speaker 2: just excellence when they went it all all the time.

991
00:46:38,038 --> 00:46:41,238
Speaker 2: But their uniforms are really outstanding and well conceived.

992
00:46:41,718 --> 00:46:45,318
Speaker 1: So yeah, US Steel may be owned by Knippon Steel,

993
00:46:46,038 --> 00:46:49,118
Speaker 1: Volkswagen may not have a plant in Germany, and the

994
00:46:49,158 --> 00:46:53,118
Speaker 1: A's right, we know will not be playing in Oakland. Joe,

995
00:46:53,158 --> 00:46:56,878
Speaker 1: can you give us one last thing memory you have

996
00:46:57,878 --> 00:47:00,158
Speaker 1: of baseball in the Oakland Coliseum.

997
00:47:01,078 --> 00:47:05,358
Speaker 2: Yeah, first of all, there was a time when we

998
00:47:05,398 --> 00:47:08,438
Speaker 2: first well before what do you call it Mount Davis

999
00:47:08,518 --> 00:47:11,078
Speaker 2: was built. Yes, it was kind of okay, you know,

1000
00:47:11,118 --> 00:47:12,878
Speaker 2: it was like it was the coliseum was a big

1001
00:47:12,958 --> 00:47:16,038
Speaker 2: round structure. They had some kind of vine growing on

1002
00:47:16,078 --> 00:47:17,638
Speaker 2: the wall up there, some kind of what do you

1003
00:47:17,718 --> 00:47:20,158
Speaker 2: call groundcover that was growing up and down the side

1004
00:47:20,198 --> 00:47:22,718
Speaker 2: of that slope there. And I'll tell you what, you

1005
00:47:22,758 --> 00:47:25,118
Speaker 2: had to hit everything possibly hit to get it out

1006
00:47:25,118 --> 00:47:25,318
Speaker 2: of there.

1007
00:47:25,358 --> 00:47:25,718
Speaker 3: At night.

1008
00:47:25,838 --> 00:47:29,798
Speaker 2: It was damp or cold. It was never rarely ever worn.

1009
00:47:29,878 --> 00:47:32,838
Speaker 2: But that's it. I mean when they built that, when

1010
00:47:32,878 --> 00:47:36,918
Speaker 2: they built Mount Davis, it totally it totally ruined that place.

1011
00:47:36,958 --> 00:47:39,398
Speaker 2: I mean it took whatever charm could be derived from

1012
00:47:39,438 --> 00:47:42,998
Speaker 2: this circular building. That was a definite home court advantage

1013
00:47:43,038 --> 00:47:47,678
Speaker 2: for them and definitely interesting. It was definitely interesting. That

1014
00:47:47,998 --> 00:47:51,118
Speaker 2: depth perception there is completely different. There's so much room

1015
00:47:51,158 --> 00:47:53,918
Speaker 2: behind first and third base, foul balls are being caught.

1016
00:47:54,238 --> 00:47:57,198
Speaker 2: To really be a batting champion and play in Oakland

1017
00:47:57,558 --> 00:47:59,998
Speaker 2: all your home games is not easy. Between the weather

1018
00:48:00,038 --> 00:48:04,678
Speaker 2: at night and then the immense enormous amount of ball space.

1019
00:48:04,878 --> 00:48:07,598
Speaker 2: It's close behind the plate, but everything else is large.

1020
00:48:07,998 --> 00:48:12,598
Speaker 2: And the thing that really stands out the Angels.

1021
00:48:12,638 --> 00:48:14,118
Speaker 3: In nineteen ninety.

1022
00:48:13,718 --> 00:48:17,078
Speaker 2: Five, we had this huge lead and we're losing it,

1023
00:48:17,318 --> 00:48:20,678
Speaker 2: and Marcel called the meeting, and without giving specifics to

1024
00:48:20,758 --> 00:48:24,518
Speaker 2: the meeting, we were in this small it's a horrible clubhouse.

1025
00:48:24,558 --> 00:48:28,398
Speaker 2: It's always been horrible. It's dirty, dirty clubhouse, horrible clubhouse.

1026
00:48:29,598 --> 00:48:33,278
Speaker 2: Always concerned about things being pot don't leave anything lying around.

1027
00:48:33,038 --> 00:48:34,918
Speaker 3: Because it might be picked up for the wrong hands.

1028
00:48:35,238 --> 00:48:37,558
Speaker 2: But we had this meeting in this coaches room is

1029
00:48:37,598 --> 00:48:41,158
Speaker 2: really small, dank, dark coaches room, trying to figure out

1030
00:48:41,158 --> 00:48:44,078
Speaker 2: a way to get out of our malaise and eventually

1031
00:48:44,118 --> 00:48:46,878
Speaker 2: get back on track and win it, which we lost

1032
00:48:47,478 --> 00:48:49,838
Speaker 2: one game playoff with the Mariners that year, after having

1033
00:48:49,878 --> 00:48:53,158
Speaker 2: a twelve or thirteen game lead. But the coaching staff

1034
00:48:53,158 --> 00:48:55,878
Speaker 2: in that room, every time I walked into that room

1035
00:48:55,958 --> 00:49:00,318
Speaker 2: after that, it was really a difficult memory for me.

1036
00:49:00,598 --> 00:49:02,638
Speaker 2: And every time I walked in and I felt that

1037
00:49:02,718 --> 00:49:04,918
Speaker 2: I felt that pressure, felt that he'd I felt the

1038
00:49:05,038 --> 00:49:07,998
Speaker 2: enormous weight on the Angel's shoulders at that point. And

1039
00:49:08,078 --> 00:49:10,838
Speaker 2: I love Marcel Lashman. He gave me my opportunity to

1040
00:49:10,878 --> 00:49:13,758
Speaker 2: get to the big league. So the ballpark itself, the

1041
00:49:13,838 --> 00:49:17,198
Speaker 2: depth perception Mount Davis would a waste. But the big

1042
00:49:17,238 --> 00:49:19,638
Speaker 2: thing for me was that moment when we were losing

1043
00:49:19,638 --> 00:49:23,798
Speaker 2: a lead, having this coaches meeting in that room and

1044
00:49:23,838 --> 00:49:29,078
Speaker 2: how heavy that felt. Taught me to really avoid those

1045
00:49:29,158 --> 00:49:31,558
Speaker 2: kind of heavy moments as a manager from my coaching

1046
00:49:31,598 --> 00:49:35,038
Speaker 2: staff because it really really could weigh on you to

1047
00:49:35,078 --> 00:49:37,038
Speaker 2: the point where I didn't sit anything good coming to

1048
00:49:37,078 --> 00:49:40,278
Speaker 2: that and my evaluation, how to get rid of this.

1049
00:49:40,358 --> 00:49:42,918
Speaker 2: Let's have a big party. Let's get everybody out, Let's

1050
00:49:42,958 --> 00:49:44,958
Speaker 2: get all the players out, all the coaches out at

1051
00:49:44,958 --> 00:49:47,478
Speaker 2: one time. Let's go someplace from going to Texas and

1052
00:49:47,558 --> 00:49:49,918
Speaker 2: have a blast that Night's let's blow it out that way,

1053
00:49:49,998 --> 00:49:52,558
Speaker 2: because there was already too much pressure. And I'm like

1054
00:49:52,638 --> 00:49:55,398
Speaker 2: nineteen ninety five, it's my first full year in the

1055
00:49:55,398 --> 00:49:58,318
Speaker 2: big leagues, and nobody wanted to listen to me. But

1056
00:49:58,398 --> 00:50:01,838
Speaker 2: that's my strongest memory of that ballpark that really stuck

1057
00:50:01,838 --> 00:50:02,678
Speaker 2: with me and still does.

1058
00:50:03,038 --> 00:50:05,958
Speaker 1: We will re is it this topic Oakland leaving or

1059
00:50:05,958 --> 00:50:08,478
Speaker 1: the A's leaving Oakland as we get to the end

1060
00:50:08,478 --> 00:50:11,678
Speaker 1: of September. But I'll give you my quick memory, which

1061
00:50:11,758 --> 00:50:13,358
Speaker 1: is I don't know why it came to me, but

1062
00:50:13,398 --> 00:50:17,438
Speaker 1: it always does. It was a ALCS clincher. I believe.

1063
00:50:17,438 --> 00:50:20,238
Speaker 1: It was nineteen eighty eight against the Boston Red Sox

1064
00:50:20,678 --> 00:50:23,798
Speaker 1: and the A's are taking the field for the top

1065
00:50:23,838 --> 00:50:25,638
Speaker 1: of the ninth inning. They're about to put away and

1066
00:50:25,638 --> 00:50:29,038
Speaker 1: go to the World Series the Boston Red Sox, and

1067
00:50:29,238 --> 00:50:31,838
Speaker 1: you know, obviously an exciting moment. And in the ballpark,

1068
00:50:31,918 --> 00:50:34,078
Speaker 1: and we like to talk about music. Here Joe setting

1069
00:50:34,118 --> 00:50:40,718
Speaker 1: the right tone. They played peaceful easy Feeling by the Eagles.

1070
00:50:40,998 --> 00:50:43,398
Speaker 1: I mean, how great is that?

1071
00:50:43,598 --> 00:50:46,438
Speaker 3: Was great? Greatest sound system in the league too, by

1072
00:50:46,438 --> 00:50:47,878
Speaker 3: the way, the best sound system in.

1073
00:50:48,798 --> 00:50:51,718
Speaker 1: You will never hear that anywhere else ever. Again, peaceful

1074
00:50:51,798 --> 00:50:53,918
Speaker 1: easy feeling when you're getting hyped up to go to

1075
00:50:53,958 --> 00:50:57,198
Speaker 1: the World Series. But I'm like, that is so California.

1076
00:50:57,198 --> 00:50:58,118
Speaker 1: That is so perfect.

1077
00:50:58,278 --> 00:51:00,518
Speaker 2: Well, the guy that ran it, who was the famous

1078
00:51:00,878 --> 00:51:02,718
Speaker 2: announcer there the ballpark.

1079
00:51:02,398 --> 00:51:04,318
Speaker 1: What a voice he was the bad he was the

1080
00:51:04,358 --> 00:51:04,998
Speaker 1: voice of God.

1081
00:51:05,118 --> 00:51:08,678
Speaker 2: And the sound system they had these huge am speakers

1082
00:51:08,678 --> 00:51:11,598
Speaker 2: on each down the left field line, right field line,

1083
00:51:12,038 --> 00:51:13,478
Speaker 2: and they turned that sucker up.

1084
00:51:13,798 --> 00:51:15,238
Speaker 3: It was great. It was great.

1085
00:51:15,238 --> 00:51:18,318
Speaker 2: In the dugout, it was funny. They did the dot races.

1086
00:51:18,758 --> 00:51:21,078
Speaker 2: That part of it was outstanding. They had some really

1087
00:51:21,118 --> 00:51:22,678
Speaker 2: good and then and then when they.

1088
00:51:22,638 --> 00:51:24,278
Speaker 3: Were good, the dude in the outfit with that.

1089
00:51:25,878 --> 00:51:27,798
Speaker 2: Had a drum doing Tata, then he would do the

1090
00:51:27,838 --> 00:51:30,998
Speaker 2: Tahata thing with it was little like it was almost like, uh,

1091
00:51:31,518 --> 00:51:34,478
Speaker 2: like they were following. They're definitely grateful dead fans out

1092
00:51:34,478 --> 00:51:36,638
Speaker 2: there in left field. It was they had a nice vibe.

1093
00:51:36,678 --> 00:51:39,678
Speaker 2: They've always had a great vibe. Even when they don't draw,

1094
00:51:39,718 --> 00:51:41,718
Speaker 2: they have a good vibe. I mean, the fans there

1095
00:51:41,758 --> 00:51:45,318
Speaker 2: are legit. It's too bad because these these people are legit.

1096
00:51:45,758 --> 00:51:47,358
Speaker 2: I had a great time with them. I would speak

1097
00:51:47,358 --> 00:51:49,598
Speaker 2: with them before every game. I'd get outside the dugout,

1098
00:51:49,638 --> 00:51:51,038
Speaker 2: look into the stands and talk to.

1099
00:51:50,958 --> 00:51:51,798
Speaker 3: The Oakland fans.

1100
00:51:52,118 --> 00:51:54,318
Speaker 2: They're into it, man, They've always been into it. They

1101
00:51:54,358 --> 00:51:55,798
Speaker 2: love their Oakland A's and.

1102
00:51:55,718 --> 00:51:56,438
Speaker 3: That is sad.

1103
00:51:56,518 --> 00:51:59,158
Speaker 2: But the way that ballpark is and the way that

1104
00:51:59,198 --> 00:52:01,838
Speaker 2: place has been run, I could this is what I

1105
00:52:01,878 --> 00:52:04,918
Speaker 2: do understand why they need to leave Rwanda because it's

1106
00:52:04,958 --> 00:52:06,798
Speaker 2: not a really good major league facility right now.

1107
00:52:07,038 --> 00:52:09,718
Speaker 1: Yeah, good sound system and good tunes you can relate

1108
00:52:09,758 --> 00:52:09,878
Speaker 1: to that.

1109
00:52:10,038 --> 00:52:12,438
Speaker 3: Oh my god, it was the best. It was the best.

1110
00:52:12,638 --> 00:52:14,718
Speaker 3: And the guy was funny. The guy running the pie

1111
00:52:14,798 --> 00:52:16,718
Speaker 3: system was funny. He was funny.

1112
00:52:17,278 --> 00:52:20,798
Speaker 1: Well that's our look at September. To start this month,

1113
00:52:20,998 --> 00:52:23,318
Speaker 1: we did a nice deep dive on the stolen base,

1114
00:52:24,198 --> 00:52:27,318
Speaker 1: but we did begin by talking about this is it, well,

1115
00:52:27,398 --> 00:52:29,878
Speaker 1: last month of the regular season, the month of September

1116
00:52:30,478 --> 00:52:33,278
Speaker 1: is here, the weather is changing, the kiddies are back

1117
00:52:33,318 --> 00:52:36,518
Speaker 1: in school, and Joe Madden has a court of the

1118
00:52:36,598 --> 00:52:37,518
Speaker 1: day to take us out.

1119
00:52:37,958 --> 00:52:42,238
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I expected to be in the playoffs annually whenever,

1120
00:52:42,758 --> 00:52:45,998
Speaker 2: whether it was Tampa Bay or the Cubbies or even

1121
00:52:46,158 --> 00:52:48,198
Speaker 2: I never got a real good chance with the Angels,

1122
00:52:48,238 --> 00:52:50,638
Speaker 2: but I really expected to be there. We kind of

1123
00:52:50,638 --> 00:52:53,718
Speaker 2: built that with the Angels right before I had left there,

1124
00:52:53,758 --> 00:52:56,958
Speaker 2: and so of course did a wonderful job. But the

1125
00:52:57,078 --> 00:52:59,598
Speaker 2: thing that I think I learned, and you have to

1126
00:52:59,758 --> 00:53:03,678
Speaker 2: earn the right to tap into this. You have to

1127
00:53:03,718 --> 00:53:05,718
Speaker 2: earn the right to tap into this by playing well

1128
00:53:05,838 --> 00:53:10,438
Speaker 2: all year. But September provides its own energy. It brings

1129
00:53:10,478 --> 00:53:13,558
Speaker 2: its own energy, but you have to be in position

1130
00:53:14,118 --> 00:53:16,638
Speaker 2: to be able to tap into it. You go through

1131
00:53:16,638 --> 00:53:18,438
Speaker 2: the whole season, man, and you get to those those

1132
00:53:18,558 --> 00:53:22,478
Speaker 2: tough days, it gets a little bit hot, you're grinding, grinding, grinding,

1133
00:53:22,558 --> 00:53:24,998
Speaker 2: you're up and down a little bit. Your record, you're

1134
00:53:25,038 --> 00:53:27,518
Speaker 2: looking at it, you're five over, ten over, fifteen over,

1135
00:53:27,558 --> 00:53:30,278
Speaker 2: hopefully twenty over, and then above and then your fight, fight, fight.

1136
00:53:30,358 --> 00:53:33,078
Speaker 2: But then here comes September, and then the groups that

1137
00:53:33,398 --> 00:53:38,038
Speaker 2: are really not necessarily involved, there's not that same kind

1138
00:53:38,078 --> 00:53:40,478
Speaker 2: of energy within the group on a nightly basis versus

1139
00:53:40,558 --> 00:53:42,918
Speaker 2: those that are. And so you have to earn the

1140
00:53:42,998 --> 00:53:44,638
Speaker 2: right to be able to tap into this energy. And

1141
00:53:44,718 --> 00:53:46,918
Speaker 2: that's why you know, when you get to this time

1142
00:53:46,958 --> 00:53:48,718
Speaker 2: of the year, the teams that are definitely in it

1143
00:53:48,878 --> 00:53:51,838
Speaker 2: have a huge advantage playing schedules versus teams with five

1144
00:53:51,958 --> 00:53:53,358
Speaker 2: hundred or less records.

1145
00:53:53,398 --> 00:53:57,678
Speaker 3: I think, so that's it. September provides its own energy,

1146
00:53:57,798 --> 00:53:59,798
Speaker 3: but you have to earn the right to tap into it.

1147
00:54:00,318 --> 00:54:02,598
Speaker 1: I like that, and I will give you a one

1148
00:54:02,718 --> 00:54:05,638
Speaker 1: warning to a lot of content teams. Beware of the

1149
00:54:05,758 --> 00:54:08,478
Speaker 1: teams that are not in contention, who are playing on

1150
00:54:08,518 --> 00:54:12,398
Speaker 1: the road. When you change the environment you had now play.

1151
00:54:12,558 --> 00:54:14,958
Speaker 1: Say you go to Yankee Stadium or you go to

1152
00:54:15,038 --> 00:54:18,118
Speaker 1: Dodger Stadium, and your season, you know, you're already booking

1153
00:54:18,158 --> 00:54:21,198
Speaker 1: your hunting trip and your golf trips, all of a sudden,

1154
00:54:21,238 --> 00:54:25,678
Speaker 1: you're playing in an energized environment that can lift those teams. Now, listen,

1155
00:54:25,758 --> 00:54:28,278
Speaker 1: I would still rather play the worst teams and the

1156
00:54:28,358 --> 00:54:30,398
Speaker 1: better teams. That's just a fact of life. Of the

1157
00:54:30,398 --> 00:54:32,838
Speaker 1: team with the less talent, I'd rather play them, But

1158
00:54:32,958 --> 00:54:35,718
Speaker 1: I do think they're more dangerous when those teams play

1159
00:54:35,758 --> 00:54:37,518
Speaker 1: on the road and get a little shot of energy

1160
00:54:39,038 --> 00:54:40,318
Speaker 1: in those kind of environments.

1161
00:54:40,438 --> 00:54:43,278
Speaker 2: And the other thing that's changed, obviously they said to

1162
00:54:43,278 --> 00:54:46,398
Speaker 2: be really difficult was roster size. Man, when when they

1163
00:54:46,518 --> 00:54:50,198
Speaker 2: were able to just roster it up your card before

1164
00:54:50,238 --> 00:54:53,278
Speaker 2: the game was just littered with names back and forth.

1165
00:54:53,318 --> 00:54:55,438
Speaker 2: So this is another you're talking about. You're playing a

1166
00:54:55,518 --> 00:54:57,878
Speaker 2: non contender that all of a sudden could match you

1167
00:54:57,998 --> 00:54:59,518
Speaker 2: up because at that time wasn't.

1168
00:54:59,358 --> 00:55:00,278
Speaker 3: A three batter minimum.

1169
00:55:00,798 --> 00:55:04,918
Speaker 2: So you're really you're matching your roster, your moves up

1170
00:55:05,278 --> 00:55:07,398
Speaker 2: with what they're possibly able to do now that they

1171
00:55:07,438 --> 00:55:10,278
Speaker 2: couldn't do a month earlier, a couple of days earlier

1172
00:55:10,318 --> 00:55:12,958
Speaker 2: than that. So the roster size and the ability to

1173
00:55:13,038 --> 00:55:16,318
Speaker 2: match things up is really significant when you're able.

1174
00:55:16,158 --> 00:55:17,638
Speaker 3: To have more people on the roster.

1175
00:55:17,838 --> 00:55:20,518
Speaker 2: I mean, particularly that came with left handed stuff you know,

1176
00:55:20,678 --> 00:55:22,918
Speaker 2: left on left hand, left handed pitcher on left handed hitter,

1177
00:55:24,118 --> 00:55:26,798
Speaker 2: you know, you want to pinch it somebody that's left handed,

1178
00:55:26,798 --> 00:55:28,438
Speaker 2: they're definitely gonna have a lefty warming up in the

1179
00:55:28,478 --> 00:55:30,118
Speaker 2: bullpen and we're gonna be doing.

1180
00:55:29,998 --> 00:55:30,518
Speaker 3: The same thing.

1181
00:55:30,678 --> 00:55:32,798
Speaker 2: So it really mitigated a lot of left on left

1182
00:55:32,878 --> 00:55:35,558
Speaker 2: kind of things, or you're trying to get left on

1183
00:55:35,678 --> 00:55:37,678
Speaker 2: right at the end of the season, but you can't

1184
00:55:37,838 --> 00:55:40,838
Speaker 2: because there's so there's so much available to each team.

1185
00:55:41,278 --> 00:55:44,558
Speaker 2: So that's also that's one thing I did like. I also,

1186
00:55:44,678 --> 00:55:46,478
Speaker 2: you know, I've often thought that that was a little

1187
00:55:46,518 --> 00:55:48,998
Speaker 2: bit out of control, and so I think the idea

1188
00:55:49,078 --> 00:55:51,918
Speaker 2: or the fact that you do limit roster size this

1189
00:55:52,118 --> 00:55:54,238
Speaker 2: time of the year is the right way to do it.

1190
00:55:54,638 --> 00:55:57,478
Speaker 2: Because before, man, I'm telling you, it was a paint

1191
00:55:57,518 --> 00:55:59,878
Speaker 2: in the butt. Now, the good part was when you

1192
00:55:59,958 --> 00:56:01,918
Speaker 2: needed to give somebody you got good game or a

1193
00:56:01,958 --> 00:56:04,198
Speaker 2: bad game, you're kicking somebody's by your game and your

1194
00:56:04,238 --> 00:56:06,558
Speaker 2: butt kicked. You have enough guys to get your real

1195
00:56:06,638 --> 00:56:09,958
Speaker 2: guys off the field. That was important. So that was

1196
00:56:10,038 --> 00:56:12,758
Speaker 2: why I liked the bigger roster size for those reasons too,

1197
00:56:13,078 --> 00:56:14,758
Speaker 2: just in order to give your guys a day of

1198
00:56:14,838 --> 00:56:17,478
Speaker 2: rest when they really needed it, but all over the map.

1199
00:56:17,518 --> 00:56:20,318
Speaker 2: But that's September. September brings its own energy. But you

1200
00:56:20,438 --> 00:56:22,198
Speaker 2: got there and the right to tap into it.

1201
00:56:22,558 --> 00:56:22,998
Speaker 3: I love it.

1202
00:56:23,758 --> 00:56:27,358
Speaker 1: September brings its own energy, and it is sprint time

1203
00:56:27,438 --> 00:56:30,158
Speaker 1: in baseball. It's no longer a marathon. One more month.

1204
00:56:30,278 --> 00:56:35,158
Speaker 1: Here we go, Joe, enjoy September, Enjoy watching the Brewers

1205
00:56:35,238 --> 00:56:39,358
Speaker 1: play like the Rays, and enjoy all these stolen bases.

1206
00:56:39,598 --> 00:56:41,478
Speaker 2: I shall bro the way to bring it up man, Yes,

1207
00:56:42,238 --> 00:56:44,838
Speaker 2: always loved it. I was a cardinal fan mister Brock.

1208
00:56:44,878 --> 00:56:46,718
Speaker 2: I met Lou Brock, actually had one of his bases.

1209
00:56:46,798 --> 00:56:49,598
Speaker 2: I got it from him personally. He had a charity event.

1210
00:56:49,758 --> 00:56:51,598
Speaker 2: I paid I think, I don't know, five thousand bucks.

1211
00:56:51,638 --> 00:56:53,798
Speaker 2: He signed it for me. I got it in storage.

1212
00:56:53,798 --> 00:56:56,598
Speaker 2: I got to get it back out. But Lou Brock, man,

1213
00:56:56,678 --> 00:57:00,558
Speaker 2: what is he? Seven stolen bases in two World Series

1214
00:57:01,078 --> 00:57:03,278
Speaker 2: home runs and at the time he didn't slide at

1215
00:57:03,318 --> 00:57:05,238
Speaker 2: Detroit with a loss of the Tigers in that one

1216
00:57:05,318 --> 00:57:08,438
Speaker 2: game was big. But I was a huge, huge, huge

1217
00:57:08,478 --> 00:57:09,158
Speaker 2: Bluebrock fan.

1218
00:57:09,518 --> 00:57:13,318
Speaker 1: Thirteen steps every time, thirteen steps to stolen base, to

1219
00:57:13,638 --> 00:57:16,758
Speaker 1: steal second base, thirteen steps ending with a feet first

1220
00:57:16,878 --> 00:57:19,118
Speaker 1: slide just like Shoe Otani.

1221
00:57:19,358 --> 00:57:21,558
Speaker 2: Wonderful man too, man with a gentleman, gentleman.

1222
00:57:21,598 --> 00:57:22,398
Speaker 3: Absolutely, gentlemen.

1223
00:57:22,438 --> 00:57:24,038
Speaker 1: Absolutely, we'll see you next time, Joe.

1224
00:57:24,278 --> 00:57:24,758
Speaker 3: Thanks brother.

1225
00:57:32,838 --> 00:57:36,038
Speaker 1: The Book of Joe podcast is a production of iHeartRadio.

1226
00:57:36,278 --> 00:57:41,118
Speaker 1: For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,

1227
00:57:41,398 --> 00:57:43,118
Speaker 1: or wherever you get your podcasts.