WEBVTT - Monkeypox: Fact vs Fiction — Lab 076 0:00:00.640 --> 0:00:03.040 Monkeypox has been in the news and on social media. 0:00:03.120 --> 0:00:05.040 Folks are really trying to make sense of what's happening. 0:00:05.920 --> 0:00:07.760 I don't think everybody's got it quite right. I mean, 0:00:07.840 --> 0:00:09.280 I don't know all the answers, but some of the 0:00:09.280 --> 0:00:12.320 things I'm seeing are wrong. What we're also seeing, though, 0:00:12.720 --> 0:00:16.239 is that a dog was likely infected with monkeypox recently, 0:00:16.640 --> 0:00:19.640 and so that was August eighteenth. There's just a lot 0:00:19.680 --> 0:00:21.479 to wrap my arms around. So I think we gotta 0:00:21.960 --> 0:00:23.320 look at this thing a little closer. 0:00:23.840 --> 0:00:26.560 I'm TT and I'm Zachiah and from Spotify. 0:00:26.760 --> 0:00:49.440 This is Dope Labs. 0:00:53.120 --> 0:00:57.000 Welcome to Dope Labs, a weekly podcast that mixes hardcore science, 0:00:57.120 --> 0:01:01.319 pop culture, and a healthy dosa friendship. We're talking all 0:01:01.360 --> 0:01:05.040 about monkey pox, and it's only fitting because it's been 0:01:05.120 --> 0:01:07.440 everywhere in the news, not just in the news but 0:01:07.480 --> 0:01:09.800 on social media. We've seen y'all talking about. 0:01:09.600 --> 0:01:13.319 It, and honestly, this episode has been in the making 0:01:13.600 --> 0:01:16.120 for weeks, but it's just that every time we go 0:01:16.200 --> 0:01:18.440 to press record, something new is happening. 0:01:18.840 --> 0:01:19.720 So what do we know. 0:01:20.360 --> 0:01:22.840 Monkey Pox has the word pos in it, so I 0:01:23.000 --> 0:01:26.600 know that means painful skin lesions. When I think about 0:01:26.760 --> 0:01:30.640 monkey pox, I think about smallpox and chicken pox, which 0:01:30.640 --> 0:01:33.040 I had when I was in kindergarten painful. 0:01:33.520 --> 0:01:37.000 Yeah, and we know that monkey pos has been around 0:01:37.160 --> 0:01:38.320 for a while. 0:01:38.560 --> 0:01:40.720 Monkey pox has been around for a while, but the 0:01:40.800 --> 0:01:43.759 cases we're seeing now in the United States are primarily 0:01:43.800 --> 0:01:47.320 concentrated among men having sex with men. This has led 0:01:47.400 --> 0:01:50.840 some folks that think monkeypox must be sexually transmitted, but that's. 0:01:50.680 --> 0:01:53.520 Not the case. So what do we want to know? Well, 0:01:53.560 --> 0:01:55.360 I think we first got to start with what is 0:01:55.480 --> 0:01:56.120 monkey pox? 0:01:56.480 --> 0:01:56.680 Right? 0:01:56.920 --> 0:01:59.160 That is a very good question to start with, And 0:01:59.280 --> 0:02:02.200 my question right after that one is how did it 0:02:02.280 --> 0:02:02.680 get here? 0:02:03.080 --> 0:02:05.360 I think the other thing I want to know is 0:02:05.440 --> 0:02:08.239 what does the science tell us about monkeypox? And how 0:02:08.320 --> 0:02:11.400 is that different from what we're seeing public health recommendations 0:02:11.400 --> 0:02:13.040 telling us about monkeypox, because those. 0:02:12.919 --> 0:02:13.840 Are two different things. 0:02:13.880 --> 0:02:17.160 We know that there's, yes, the science, but there's all 0:02:17.240 --> 0:02:20.200 the context around it, right, So we want to know 0:02:20.360 --> 0:02:24.320 the fact and the fiction and the context when it 0:02:24.360 --> 0:02:25.239 comes to monkeybox. 0:02:25.560 --> 0:02:39.160 That's right, CT, let's jump into the dissection. So we 0:02:39.280 --> 0:02:41.480 really wanted to make sure that we were covering this 0:02:41.639 --> 0:02:45.840 issue from multiple angles because there's so much to discuss. 0:02:46.120 --> 0:02:48.600 So this week we have not just one, but two 0:02:48.720 --> 0:02:51.840 guest experts, doctor Angie Rasmussen, who's going to talk to 0:02:51.880 --> 0:02:54.960 us about the virus and the vaccine, and Kenyan Farroh, 0:02:54.960 --> 0:02:57.640 who provides the social and public health context. 0:02:58.040 --> 0:03:01.600 I'm Angie Rasmussen. I am virologists. That's the Vaccine and 0:03:01.600 --> 0:03:06.800 Infectious Disease Organization at the University of Saskatchewan Here in Saskatoon, Canada. 0:03:07.360 --> 0:03:11.440 I studied the host response to emerging viruses, including monkey pox. 0:03:11.919 --> 0:03:15.000 My name is Kenyon Farroll. I am the managing director 0:03:15.000 --> 0:03:17.880 of the advocacy in organizing with an organization called Prep 0:03:17.919 --> 0:03:21.320 for All, and I am also generally an activist and 0:03:21.400 --> 0:03:21.919 a writer. 0:03:22.360 --> 0:03:24.919 So let's talk about the virus. What is it? 0:03:25.320 --> 0:03:28.280 So? Monkeypox virus is an orthopox virus. 0:03:28.560 --> 0:03:31.560 Orthopox Viruses are part of a family of viruses that 0:03:31.639 --> 0:03:34.160 cause disease, and back in the old days, used to 0:03:34.160 --> 0:03:38.800 be called generally pox. Pox is used to represent the 0:03:38.880 --> 0:03:43.360 marx and lesions left on the skin. Another orthopox virus 0:03:43.360 --> 0:03:46.160 that you may have heard of is smallpox, and that 0:03:46.360 --> 0:03:50.160 was declared eradicated in nineteen eighty. So monkey pox is 0:03:50.320 --> 0:03:51.640 not new, right. 0:03:52.000 --> 0:03:55.320 Smallpox hasn't been around for a long time. But monkeypox 0:03:55.400 --> 0:03:59.360 was actually discovered in nineteen fifty eight in a group 0:03:59.400 --> 0:04:03.000 of Labne monkeys that had been imported into Denmark and 0:04:03.040 --> 0:04:05.920 they developed the smallpox like disease that turned out not 0:04:06.000 --> 0:04:08.680 to be smallpox. It was monkey pox, and so that's 0:04:08.720 --> 0:04:09.520 how it was named. 0:04:09.800 --> 0:04:11.839 And there was a lot of stigma with this. How 0:04:11.880 --> 0:04:13.559 you name something carries. 0:04:13.280 --> 0:04:13.839 A lot of weight. 0:04:14.040 --> 0:04:15.000 Oh my gosh. 0:04:15.040 --> 0:04:16.880 We saw this with COVID early on. 0:04:17.279 --> 0:04:20.680 We saw it with our then President Trump calling COVID 0:04:20.720 --> 0:04:25.400 the Chinese virus, which was inaccurate. And similarly, we're calling 0:04:25.440 --> 0:04:28.680 monkey pox monkey pox because it was discovered in monkeys, 0:04:29.000 --> 0:04:31.359 but that's not where it came from, Like, that's not 0:04:31.400 --> 0:04:34.880 where the reservoir for the virus was. And the only 0:04:34.920 --> 0:04:37.080 reason it's called monkey pox is because that's where we 0:04:37.120 --> 0:04:40.000 got a scientific snapshot of it. And so there's been 0:04:40.000 --> 0:04:42.080 a push to rename the virus, but it just hasn't 0:04:42.120 --> 0:04:43.040 taken hold yet. 0:04:43.279 --> 0:04:46.960 The symptoms of monkey pox can include fever, headache, muscle 0:04:47.000 --> 0:04:51.840 aches and backache, swollen lymph nodes, chills, respiratory issues, and 0:04:51.880 --> 0:04:53.760 a rash or lesions on the skin. 0:04:54.200 --> 0:04:57.080 So there's a whole process with the rash that happens, 0:04:57.520 --> 0:05:00.760 and generally speaking, it starts off as a a rash 0:05:00.800 --> 0:05:04.440 with some flu like symptoms associated with it. That becomes 0:05:04.560 --> 0:05:08.240 a versicular rash, which eventually becomes like a pustule or 0:05:08.279 --> 0:05:11.080 a blister, and then that scabs over and then the 0:05:11.120 --> 0:05:14.080 scabs fall off. The new skin is underneath. When the 0:05:14.120 --> 0:05:17.240 scabs fall off, that's when people are thought to be 0:05:17.400 --> 0:05:18.680 no longer contagious. 0:05:19.040 --> 0:05:22.960 Monkey pops can be extremely painful, but its fatality rate 0:05:23.279 --> 0:05:26.480 is much lower than smallpox, which has a fatality rate 0:05:26.520 --> 0:05:27.680 of about thirty percent. 0:05:34.200 --> 0:05:36.479 What about how it's spread, I think there's a lot 0:05:36.480 --> 0:05:39.520 of confusion around this. Can it be spread on surfaces 0:05:39.839 --> 0:05:43.400 or is it airborne like stars coovy two or. 0:05:43.360 --> 0:05:47.680 The pox viruses can be transmitted by both aerosols and faumites. 0:05:48.040 --> 0:05:51.120 A fomite is an object, fabric or surface that can 0:05:51.240 --> 0:05:54.960 carry and spread disease, so like clothing, bedding, or towels. 0:05:55.640 --> 0:05:58.960 And while the virus can be transmitted by objects, the 0:05:59.120 --> 0:06:01.719 risk of TRANSMITSI and via this route is low. 0:06:02.279 --> 0:06:07.160 So there are clearly examples of fomite transmission for orthopox viruses, 0:06:07.839 --> 0:06:11.080 and I think that probably is just a matter of 0:06:11.360 --> 0:06:15.279 the extent of the exposure. So if you are doing 0:06:15.400 --> 0:06:19.480 laundry in a hospital that's full of monkey POGs patients, 0:06:19.480 --> 0:06:21.600 they're going to be at a higher risk of fomite 0:06:21.640 --> 0:06:25.760 exposure than if you're just living in the same house 0:06:25.760 --> 0:06:28.160 as somebody and you sat on the same couch with them. 0:06:28.560 --> 0:06:31.599 So there's no need to start disinfecting your groceries like 0:06:31.640 --> 0:06:32.640 we were doing for COVID. 0:06:33.080 --> 0:06:35.839 This is so important because what we saw in COVID 0:06:35.960 --> 0:06:39.840 is initially people were concerned about getting COVID from touching 0:06:39.920 --> 0:06:42.000 things right surfaces. 0:06:42.320 --> 0:06:44.080 I bought so much lyesol. 0:06:45.560 --> 0:06:47.960 I have friends who were putting their mail and they 0:06:47.960 --> 0:06:50.159 had like a seven day rotation. They let that mail 0:06:50.320 --> 0:06:53.640 cure for a week basically, and then they would open it. 0:06:53.720 --> 0:06:54.000 Yep. 0:06:54.400 --> 0:06:56.520 But a lot of that comes from not having kind 0:06:56.520 --> 0:07:00.839 of the right information. So what we know is, yes, 0:07:01.279 --> 0:07:05.839 monkey pox is primarily spread from direct skin to skin contact, 0:07:05.880 --> 0:07:10.320 but also there can be transmission from aerosols. Aerosol transmission 0:07:10.360 --> 0:07:13.680 means a virus can be transmitted through the air, specifically 0:07:13.720 --> 0:07:18.400 through respiratory secretions. Scientists are still researching how often monkey 0:07:18.400 --> 0:07:21.880 pox is spread through these respiratory secretions. But again, doctor 0:07:21.960 --> 0:07:25.440 Rasmussen says the risk here is low. Otherwise we wouldn't 0:07:25.480 --> 0:07:29.120 be seeing such a concentrated outbreak in one specific community. 0:07:29.760 --> 0:07:33.920 If aerosol transmission we're driving this outbreak that's happening now. 0:07:34.280 --> 0:07:37.520 People in the queer community have families, they have co workers, 0:07:37.640 --> 0:07:40.960 they're around a lot of people. We would see many 0:07:41.000 --> 0:07:44.720 more cases occurring outside of that community. And the same 0:07:44.840 --> 0:07:47.960 is true with fo MIC. Certainly there is the possibility 0:07:48.000 --> 0:07:51.600 for transmission in schools, and there have been a few 0:07:51.640 --> 0:07:55.600 women and some children who have contracted monkey pox, and 0:07:55.600 --> 0:07:59.440 that's because sex is not the only activity that involves 0:07:59.600 --> 0:08:04.000 close physical contact between people. If it were possible to 0:08:04.040 --> 0:08:07.760 be transmitting this by trying on clothing and other types 0:08:07.800 --> 0:08:11.400 of really incidental contact, we'd be seeing a lot more 0:08:11.440 --> 0:08:15.400 monkey pox cases, and we're just not. The vast, vast 0:08:15.440 --> 0:08:19.600 majority of these cases are occurring in men, in trans 0:08:19.680 --> 0:08:22.240 people and non binary folks who are part of these 0:08:22.240 --> 0:08:25.080 sexual networks within the queer community. 0:08:25.480 --> 0:08:28.120 And that makes sense because the vast majority of infections 0:08:28.160 --> 0:08:31.000 are being driven by extensive, direct skin to skin contact 0:08:31.000 --> 0:08:31.960 between people. 0:08:31.680 --> 0:08:34.319 Which, of course sex fits the bill for if you're 0:08:34.320 --> 0:08:36.079 doing it the way that I think you're doing it. 0:08:36.160 --> 0:08:39.320 Yes, you're in very close physical contact with another person. 0:08:39.800 --> 0:08:42.520 And so I've been seeing some people confuse this and say, like, oh, 0:08:42.559 --> 0:08:43.880 monkeypox is an STI. 0:08:44.360 --> 0:08:45.640 But we want to be really clear. 0:08:45.760 --> 0:08:48.520 While there is some evidence that monkeypox virus could be 0:08:48.559 --> 0:08:51.480 in semen, meaning it could be sexually transmitted, the vast 0:08:51.480 --> 0:08:54.559 majority of people are contracting it via skin to skin contact. 0:08:54.920 --> 0:08:57.760 We do that it is spread through contact with lesions 0:08:57.880 --> 0:09:01.040 or blisters and also bodily fluids of a person who 0:09:01.080 --> 0:09:03.880 has monkey pots, but that doesn't necessarily mean that it's 0:09:03.880 --> 0:09:06.040 sexually transmitted per se. We just know that in sects 0:09:06.120 --> 0:09:08.240 you're going to be having a lot of physical contact 0:09:08.280 --> 0:09:12.120 with someone, and so it is easy to facilitate transmission 0:09:12.200 --> 0:09:12.640 that way. 0:09:13.080 --> 0:09:15.640 Monkey Pox wasn't reported outside of Africa until two thousand 0:09:15.640 --> 0:09:18.320 and three, so even though it had been occurring in 0:09:18.360 --> 0:09:21.320 the seventies, a lot of this was animal to human transmission, 0:09:21.400 --> 0:09:26.200 so encounters with wildlife right, and now what we're facing 0:09:26.320 --> 0:09:29.040 is a different mode of transmission, which is primarily driven 0:09:29.080 --> 0:09:31.840 by human to human. Before it was usually like import 0:09:31.880 --> 0:09:34.319 of exotic animals and things like that that people shouldn't 0:09:34.320 --> 0:09:45.240 have been bringing in. Another thing to understand is that 0:09:45.640 --> 0:09:49.120 the median age range for monkeypox infection in Central and 0:09:49.120 --> 0:09:53.640 West Africa has increased, so in the nineteen seventies and eighties, 0:09:53.679 --> 0:09:56.400 the median age range for MONKEYPOXX infections was four to 0:09:56.520 --> 0:10:01.000 five years old. Then from the two thousand to twenty 0:10:01.080 --> 0:10:04.079 tens it moved to the median age range being ten 0:10:04.160 --> 0:10:06.800 to twenty one years old, and cases outside of Africa 0:10:06.840 --> 0:10:09.760 also occurred more frequently in males and primarily in adults. 0:10:10.000 --> 0:10:11.839 A lot of this has to do with the way 0:10:11.920 --> 0:10:16.000 that we live. Your risk for monkeypox infection is directly 0:10:16.040 --> 0:10:20.960 related to where there is reservoir of virus. So when 0:10:21.400 --> 0:10:25.160 virus was primarily in animals and spread from animal to human, 0:10:26.000 --> 0:10:30.640 the riskiest behavior was sleeping in a forest, being near 0:10:30.720 --> 0:10:34.400 those animals that are reservoirs for monkeypox virus. Now that 0:10:34.480 --> 0:10:37.960 we have monkey pops in humans and in a larger population, 0:10:38.440 --> 0:10:41.680 the risk behavior is living in the same house with someone, 0:10:41.880 --> 0:10:44.680 having a lot of direct skin to skin contact and 0:10:45.040 --> 0:10:46.440 sharing dishes and eating. 0:10:46.240 --> 0:10:48.960 The same food as someone else. When we say things 0:10:48.960 --> 0:10:52.080 like sexual transmission, when we're talking about these viruses, I 0:10:52.240 --> 0:10:56.440 really worry about vilifying the queer community. I mean, we've 0:10:56.520 --> 0:11:00.240 seen throughout history people in the queer community be the 0:11:00.280 --> 0:11:04.920 scapegoats for a lot of different things for virus spread. 0:11:05.320 --> 0:11:08.880 They try and say that homosexuality is like you're a 0:11:08.920 --> 0:11:12.120 sexual deviant. They'd like to say that they're more likely 0:11:12.160 --> 0:11:15.520 to be pedophiles, all of which is not true. So 0:11:15.679 --> 0:11:18.760 when I hear sexual transmission coming up and we're talking 0:11:18.800 --> 0:11:21.680 about monkey pots, it really makes me nervous because it's 0:11:21.760 --> 0:11:26.600 like we are doomed to repeat the same toxic cycles 0:11:26.640 --> 0:11:29.680 over and over again, and the folks in the queer 0:11:29.679 --> 0:11:32.600 community are always the ones that are taking the brunt 0:11:32.920 --> 0:11:37.400 of the toxicity, and it's really dangerous. People are losing 0:11:37.400 --> 0:11:39.680 their lives because of all of this false information. 0:11:40.200 --> 0:11:43.480 That's right, and that's to me right now is the 0:11:43.480 --> 0:11:47.480 community that needs to be advised on how to decreach 0:11:47.520 --> 0:11:47.960 their risk. 0:11:48.160 --> 0:11:52.320 Most significantly, monkey pox we have known about for fifty years, 0:11:52.800 --> 0:11:56.760 and yet because we're now seeing a new manifestation of 0:11:56.800 --> 0:11:58.480 monkey pots in the United States for. 0:11:58.440 --> 0:12:02.160 The first time, and because it sort of entered the 0:12:02.320 --> 0:12:05.920 US kind of through gay men first, it is being 0:12:06.000 --> 0:12:09.000 framed as a gay disease. And there's no such thing 0:12:09.080 --> 0:12:11.400 as a gay disease or a gay virus. 0:12:11.679 --> 0:12:13.600 Let me repeat that one more time for the people 0:12:13.600 --> 0:12:17.800 in the back. There is no such thing as a 0:12:17.840 --> 0:12:21.440 gay disease or a gay virus, you know. 0:12:21.520 --> 0:12:25.439 The truth of it is, anybody can get monkeypos absolutely, 0:12:25.840 --> 0:12:29.200 and this is not the first time it's entered the 0:12:29.280 --> 0:12:32.440 United States. There are forty seven cases of monkeypox before, 0:12:32.480 --> 0:12:36.640 but that was associated with collecting exotic animals. So if 0:12:36.679 --> 0:12:39.640 you have skin and you're having skin to skin contact, 0:12:40.559 --> 0:12:43.280 the truth of it is, you can get monkeypos It's 0:12:43.320 --> 0:12:45.800 not about being gay or having sex. It's just that 0:12:46.280 --> 0:12:48.640 our reservoir has changed now. The reservoir is human. So 0:12:48.880 --> 0:12:53.040 the more humanly behavior you're having a human in human contact, 0:12:53.200 --> 0:12:54.000 the higher risk. 0:12:54.480 --> 0:12:57.480 And just like with COVID, some people may not know 0:12:57.559 --> 0:13:00.480 they have monkey pox or that they're contagiou. 0:13:00.640 --> 0:13:02.840 And I think that that is one question is like 0:13:02.880 --> 0:13:08.000 when does somebody actually become contagious after they get monkey pox. Now, 0:13:08.120 --> 0:13:11.880 monkeybox has a relatively long incubation period, so people may 0:13:11.920 --> 0:13:14.040 not realize that they have it until a week or 0:13:14.040 --> 0:13:15.599 two after they've been exposed. 0:13:16.080 --> 0:13:19.400 This sounds just like COVID, all the adding and subtracting 0:13:19.400 --> 0:13:22.920 the number of days you're contagious or potentially contagious. It 0:13:23.080 --> 0:13:26.880 just feels like we are all living in this constant 0:13:26.960 --> 0:13:30.200 state of anxiety, and you might think the experience with 0:13:30.320 --> 0:13:34.000 COVID that we're still kind of going through, that we 0:13:34.000 --> 0:13:37.720 would be better prepared for monkey pox, But it sounds 0:13:37.760 --> 0:13:42.840 like that's not the case. Both experts agree that we're 0:13:42.960 --> 0:13:45.240 not showing that we learned too much from COVID. 0:13:45.600 --> 0:13:49.880 We haven't learned a damn thing in terms of our 0:13:50.240 --> 0:13:51.880 response in a lot of ways. 0:13:52.280 --> 0:13:55.200 So how concerned should we be about monkey pocks? 0:13:55.640 --> 0:13:58.800 What concerns me the most is really how this has 0:13:58.880 --> 0:14:03.440 exposed our massive failures to respond effectively, and how it 0:14:03.480 --> 0:14:07.440 really shows that we haven't actually internalized a lot of 0:14:07.440 --> 0:14:10.080 the lessons that we should have learned from the COVID 0:14:10.120 --> 0:14:11.240 nineteen pandemic. 0:14:11.600 --> 0:14:14.440 I think one of the lessons that we didn't internalize 0:14:14.840 --> 0:14:20.000 is vaccine availability, what it takes to roll out a vaccine. 0:14:20.600 --> 0:14:23.000 I don't think that we learn anything from that because 0:14:23.000 --> 0:14:27.440 here we are another virus is spreading and there are 0:14:27.440 --> 0:14:30.120 no vaccines, just like when COVID was spreading and we 0:14:30.120 --> 0:14:32.520 were like, uh oh, there are no vaccines. But folks 0:14:32.600 --> 0:14:35.160 have been working on a coronavirus vaccine for a long time, 0:14:35.200 --> 0:14:37.960 so it felt like we should have been a little 0:14:37.960 --> 0:14:39.960 bit more prepared, but it feels like the powers that 0:14:40.080 --> 0:14:43.600 be just don't take these things as seriously as they should. 0:14:43.760 --> 0:14:47.640 I think we also see that we have big, clunky 0:14:47.720 --> 0:14:51.800 machines of governments and public health systems that don't really 0:14:51.840 --> 0:14:55.080 communicate with one another, right and because it takes them 0:14:55.120 --> 0:14:56.840 a long time to all get on the same page, 0:14:57.120 --> 0:15:00.720 folks are just typing and sharing whatever information have, whether 0:15:00.760 --> 0:15:04.040 it's accurate or not, and that can be really tricky, 0:15:04.080 --> 0:15:06.840 and I think we're starting to see that with monkeypox, 0:15:07.200 --> 0:15:10.680 just like we saw with COVID, and it's taken a 0:15:10.680 --> 0:15:14.920 while to get recommendations, which feels very similar to what 0:15:15.000 --> 0:15:18.360 we saw with COVID. But I'm a little concerned because 0:15:18.360 --> 0:15:20.320 it's not new, so it feels like it didn't have 0:15:20.400 --> 0:15:21.080 to be that way. 0:15:21.400 --> 0:15:24.520 Right early on, when we knew that monkey pox was 0:15:24.560 --> 0:15:28.000 beginning to spread outside of endemic countries, we had the 0:15:28.040 --> 0:15:32.040 opportunity then to make testing available, to really reach out 0:15:32.080 --> 0:15:34.600 to the community that's being affected, and to be very 0:15:34.640 --> 0:15:37.880 clear right now, that is the community of gay, bisexual 0:15:38.040 --> 0:15:41.160 men who have sex with men. We had the opportunity 0:15:41.320 --> 0:15:44.880 to make testing accessible to that community. We had the 0:15:44.960 --> 0:15:49.440 opportunity to actually do contact tracing and provide vaccines for 0:15:49.560 --> 0:15:52.880 people who had been close contacts of people who ended 0:15:52.920 --> 0:15:56.200 up getting monkey pox. And we actually also have antiviral 0:15:56.280 --> 0:15:59.280 drugs that can make the symptoms of monkey pox a 0:15:59.320 --> 0:16:00.640 lot less difficult. 0:16:01.120 --> 0:16:05.760 That does sound very, very familiar to the last you know, 0:16:06.280 --> 0:16:10.800 almost three years of our global experience, right. 0:16:11.040 --> 0:16:13.360 So when we think about endemic countries, we're talking about 0:16:13.400 --> 0:16:15.800 places where there are reservoirs or virus and where there 0:16:15.840 --> 0:16:21.000 are consistent infections or consistent occurrences of viral infections. And 0:16:21.040 --> 0:16:23.400 when you look at the literature, monkey pox is endemic 0:16:23.400 --> 0:16:25.880 to two regions, Central and West Africa. 0:16:26.000 --> 0:16:29.360 There's evidence that this particular clade or strain that we're 0:16:29.400 --> 0:16:33.080 seeing now in the United States was seen first in 0:16:33.200 --> 0:16:35.200 Nigeria in twenty seventeen. 0:16:35.720 --> 0:16:40.200 And my colleagues, auditions scientists in Africa could have told 0:16:40.240 --> 0:16:43.960 you twenty years ago that monkey pox was going to 0:16:44.000 --> 0:16:46.560 be a problem, and that it's a problem they deal 0:16:46.640 --> 0:16:51.760 with regularly, and because it's not impacting people in wealthier countries, 0:16:52.280 --> 0:16:55.240 there just hasn't been that concern that it's something that 0:16:55.360 --> 0:16:58.680 needs to be a priority. The reason that we don't 0:16:58.680 --> 0:17:01.360 have any data on monkey pos or not that much 0:17:01.440 --> 0:17:04.720 data on monkey pops. The reason why research hasn't been 0:17:04.760 --> 0:17:07.160 funded in the US or Canada, where I live now, 0:17:07.240 --> 0:17:11.440 or Europe is that it was happening primarily in endemic 0:17:11.480 --> 0:17:15.679 countries in Africa. So things that happen in Africa, you know, 0:17:15.720 --> 0:17:18.240 people have had a tendency to say, Oh, it's happening 0:17:18.440 --> 0:17:22.280 over there, or it's happening somewhere that doesn't affect me, 0:17:22.400 --> 0:17:24.639 because I don't know people who live there, and I'm 0:17:24.680 --> 0:17:28.080 not going there and it's not affecting my life, And 0:17:28.240 --> 0:17:30.600 I think that that is a terrible mistake. The fact 0:17:30.640 --> 0:17:34.080 that we are a global world really shows the crucial 0:17:34.160 --> 0:17:39.720 importance of not just health equity, but also scientific equity. 0:17:40.280 --> 0:17:43.679 The globalization of our world economy is a huge factor 0:17:43.720 --> 0:17:47.159 in how these outbreaks come to be. Because we're moving, 0:17:47.480 --> 0:17:51.800 we have planes, trains, and automobiles, which means those viruses 0:17:51.840 --> 0:17:55.199 are also on those planes, trains, and automobiles. We have 0:17:55.320 --> 0:17:58.879 to consider these things as we are moving about the globe. 0:17:59.240 --> 0:18:01.160 We're going to take a break and when we come back, 0:18:01.200 --> 0:18:04.359 we'll talk about how we can decrease the risk using vaccines. 0:18:04.680 --> 0:18:27.480 Plus what the media is getting wrong about monkeybox. We're back, 0:18:27.640 --> 0:18:30.320 and before we get back into monkey pox, let's talk 0:18:30.320 --> 0:18:31.960 about our lab for next week. 0:18:32.280 --> 0:18:35.720 In next week's lab, we're talking all about commercial spaceflight. 0:18:35.960 --> 0:18:38.760 It seems like everybody and anybody can get into space 0:18:38.800 --> 0:18:42.320 these days, so we're breaking down how commercial spaceflight evolved 0:18:42.440 --> 0:18:48.280 and where's headed with doctor Jordan Bim. 0:18:48.359 --> 0:18:52.040 All right, so let's talk about monkey po's vaccine. Earlier, 0:18:52.080 --> 0:18:55.280 we talked about how smallpox and monkey pox are both 0:18:55.520 --> 0:19:00.359 orthopox viruses, and smallpox was eradicated in nineteen eighty thanks 0:19:00.359 --> 0:19:04.000 to the success with vaccination. So is there a vaccine 0:19:04.040 --> 0:19:04.960 for monkey pox. 0:19:05.359 --> 0:19:09.840 It's a similar enough virus that smallpox vaccines do have 0:19:10.000 --> 0:19:14.919 some efficacy against monkey pox. And there's really two smallpox 0:19:15.040 --> 0:19:16.920 vaccines that we're talking about here. 0:19:17.359 --> 0:19:20.600 So the vaccine that eradicated smallpox in the late seventies 0:19:20.640 --> 0:19:24.600 early eighties has effectiveness against monkey pox. And like doctor 0:19:24.680 --> 0:19:28.160 Rasmusen said, there are now two vaccines that are effective 0:19:28.160 --> 0:19:30.800 in preventing monkey pox. Let's break them down. 0:19:30.920 --> 0:19:33.399 There's an older one which is called ACAM two thousand, 0:19:33.600 --> 0:19:38.560 and it's actually made from another orthopox virus called vaccinia virus. 0:19:38.760 --> 0:19:41.760 A fun fact is that's actually how the term vaccine 0:19:41.920 --> 0:19:45.800 got its name, so ACAM two thousand was targeted against 0:19:45.920 --> 0:19:50.560 vaccinia and is supposed to prevent smallpox, which is really awful. 0:19:50.720 --> 0:19:54.320 It's really transmissible, so super contagious, and it has a 0:19:54.400 --> 0:19:57.600 high fatality rate. So you can consider something that has 0:19:57.600 --> 0:19:59.840 a high fatality rate and can get you really really sick, 0:20:00.119 --> 0:20:02.160 is easily transmitted, you're willing to take on a little 0:20:02.200 --> 0:20:05.399 bit more risk to make sure that you're not spreading that. 0:20:05.640 --> 0:20:09.159 So this is a really hard to take vaccine. AKM 0:20:09.160 --> 0:20:13.080 two thousand in some people can cause disease and sometimes 0:20:13.119 --> 0:20:14.760 cardiac complications because. 0:20:14.520 --> 0:20:16.119 It's so tough on your immune system. 0:20:16.440 --> 0:20:20.359 Historical data has indicated the smallpox vaccination with vaccinia virus 0:20:20.400 --> 0:20:23.520 was approximately eighty five percent protective against monkey pocks in 0:20:23.560 --> 0:20:27.400 the past. But when you don't put money behind these programs, 0:20:27.600 --> 0:20:31.280 then you see a decrease in smallpox vaccination in these 0:20:31.280 --> 0:20:34.280 other countries. And when there's a decrease in vaccination, that 0:20:34.359 --> 0:20:36.800 allows us to have more potential hosts. 0:20:37.080 --> 0:20:39.479 So in the early two thousands, another company made a 0:20:39.480 --> 0:20:43.920 better vaccinia based vaccine called Genios, which is a lot safer. 0:20:44.280 --> 0:20:46.520 The problem is we don't have enough. 0:20:46.840 --> 0:20:50.440 So we already had far fewer doses of genios available 0:20:50.680 --> 0:20:53.919 in our stock file for treating monkey pocks, and it 0:20:54.000 --> 0:20:57.119 requires two doses. So basically, if you have, you know, 0:20:57.160 --> 0:21:00.399 a million doses, that's actually only five hundred thousand people 0:21:00.440 --> 0:21:01.800 that can be vaccinated with it. 0:21:02.160 --> 0:21:05.159 So now we're considering two things. We have doses of 0:21:05.200 --> 0:21:08.280 something that's really hard on the body, then we only 0:21:08.320 --> 0:21:11.800 have limited doses of something that's easier on the body, 0:21:12.119 --> 0:21:15.600 and it requires two doses. So cut that stockpile in half. 0:21:16.240 --> 0:21:19.040 Once we get more supply of the vaccine, we still 0:21:19.040 --> 0:21:20.639 got to conquer another issue. 0:21:20.920 --> 0:21:22.080 Will people take it? 0:21:22.359 --> 0:21:24.480 We ask Kenyon if he thinks people will have a 0:21:24.520 --> 0:21:27.600 similar hesitancy around the monkey pox vaccine that they did 0:21:27.640 --> 0:21:28.879 with the COVID vaccine. 0:21:29.240 --> 0:21:32.320 So I don't think that we'll have the same vaccination 0:21:32.560 --> 0:21:35.399 of take issue with covid if for no other reason 0:21:35.440 --> 0:21:39.280 than people are vain, right, So if people are seeing 0:21:39.359 --> 0:21:42.600 images of people with these lesions, and I just think 0:21:42.640 --> 0:21:46.520 the physical manifestation changes, I think the way a lot 0:21:46.520 --> 0:21:50.200 of people see and creates a different kind of urgency 0:21:50.240 --> 0:21:51.840 for people to get vaccinated. 0:21:52.160 --> 0:21:54.200 I think, yes, people are vain, but I think there's 0:21:54.200 --> 0:21:57.520 some differences between the COVID vaccine, which a lot of 0:21:57.520 --> 0:22:01.600 folks complained was that COVID was and they felt like 0:22:01.640 --> 0:22:05.119 the vaccine approval process happened really quickly and they weren't 0:22:05.119 --> 0:22:09.040 really sure about it. The smallpox vaccines have been around, right, 0:22:09.119 --> 0:22:14.080 so if there was hesitation around how quickly this got delivered, 0:22:14.359 --> 0:22:17.960 you shouldn't see that same concern if folks are candidates 0:22:18.000 --> 0:22:20.800 for a smallpox vaccine because it's been around. I think 0:22:20.800 --> 0:22:23.439 there's more to it than people just being vain. There's 0:22:23.480 --> 0:22:26.600 a certain reality that you're confronted with when you can 0:22:26.640 --> 0:22:31.800