Speaker 1: Welcome to She Pivots. I'm your host to Emily Tish Sussman.
Speaker 2: One of my goals in starting this podcast is to
Speaker 2: highlight voices and stories of women who went through something
Speaker 2: deeply personal, only to come out of it on the
Speaker 2: other side better than they could have imagined. After launching
Speaker 2: She Pivots last year, it's clear it's not a small group.
Speaker 2: This applies to most women, whether it's a big pivot
Speaker 2: or even just a tiny pivot. What's clear is there's
Speaker 2: still a lot of unpacking to do around pivoting. So
Speaker 2: as we're continuing to build this platform and community through
Speaker 2: new episodes, I wanted to also bring you more stories,
Speaker 2: unfiltered and honest. So I'll be sitting down with more women,
Speaker 2: maybe the occasional man, some of whom have mastered their
Speaker 2: own pivot, some are just starting the pivoting journey. Are
Speaker 2: some just have something to teach us about the deeply
Speaker 2: personal moments of life. So stay tuned for more of
Speaker 2: these candid conversations this season. Let's jump right in, Okay,
Speaker 2: Tory Taylor, political strategist, genius, former executive director of Swing Left,
Speaker 2: one of the best people you will ever meet in politics.
Speaker 2: Thank you for joining this interview in my hotel room.
Speaker 1: Thank you so much.
Speaker 3: I'm going to use all of those lines as like
Speaker 3: the opening like bio for my LinkedIn and like maybe
Speaker 3: my Twitter bio especially like the best person you'll ever meet.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that was the best intro I've ever gotten. This
Speaker 2: is part of your illustrious podcasting career. Yeah, you hosted
Speaker 2: a show and I loved and you came up with
Speaker 2: the title for my political show.
Speaker 1: Oh is that right?
Speaker 2: Yes?
Speaker 1: Is that right?
Speaker 2: Yeah?
Speaker 1: Oh, how fun came up.
Speaker 2: With your political playlist. I mean it was like a playlist.
Speaker 1: It was Wow, what a clever name. It's had so
Speaker 1: many meetings. It was so good. Yeah. I love that.
Speaker 1: I love that. I totally forgot that. Does that genius
Speaker 1: just emanate from you at all times?
Speaker 2: I like to think, So you brought it to politics, Yeah,
Speaker 2: then you've brought it to podcasts.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and then back to politics. Yeah. Yeah. Basically yeah,
Speaker 1: I'm like a two trip pony. That's it.
Speaker 3: You're like puns in every field. I know, I'll have
Speaker 3: to think of like the next thing I want to
Speaker 3: bring genius to. But also I don't want to stretch
Speaker 3: it out too much, you know, it's like, do a
Speaker 3: couple of things really well, but if like you know,
Speaker 3: if you spread it out too much, then you just
Speaker 3: start being bad at all of them. You know.
Speaker 2: Do you remember any of your other good podcast namings?
Speaker 3: Oh? Man, I don't know if I like named any others.
Speaker 3: I definitely thought of lots of names and had lots
Speaker 3: of ideas for other podcasts, but like they mostly just
Speaker 3: stayed in my head, like.
Speaker 1: This is your moment, let's hear them.
Speaker 3: I feel like every friend that I've had that I've
Speaker 3: ever had like an interesting conversation with, like beginning like
Speaker 3: five or six years ago, like.
Speaker 1: Oh, we should start a podcast because we'reus.
Speaker 3: Like we could call it like Torri and Susan talk
Speaker 3: about the news or whatever. But like, I don't think
Speaker 3: any of those were very good. I think it was
Speaker 3: just like we think we're so funny and the masses
Speaker 3: would want to hear this conversation, which also is like,
Speaker 3: you know, low key narcissistic. That's about I love that
Speaker 3: I'm saying and a recording things.
Speaker 2: So this era of narcissism, like it's not even like
Speaker 2: the selfie Instagram, like look what a great influencer I am,
Speaker 2: Like people would find me hilarious.
Speaker 1: Fry of the world of this.
Speaker 2: Oh, I mean that's literally what this podcast is right now?
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, yeah, I know, I feel like I feel
Speaker 3: like this, like people will either find this very like endearing,
Speaker 3: like oh, how cute, or be like wow, what a tool.
Speaker 1: So I guess we'll see they're going to be like.
Speaker 2: Did these two girls used to talk about politics? I
Speaker 2: didn't talk about policy. We don't even believe that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah no.
Speaker 3: But you know, whenever you're talking to friends and like
Speaker 3: you guys get going and like the little groove and
Speaker 3: you're bantering and like one joke leads to another and
Speaker 3: like you're laughing, and then all of a sudden, like wow,
Speaker 3: that was like a killer ten minute segment.
Speaker 1: You know, we could even put an ad break in here.
Speaker 1: It was so good, I know, I know. And now
Speaker 1: moving on to these pants. Now, these pants they're so comfortable,
Speaker 1: I'll wear them all the time. Well you can get
Speaker 1: this ten percent discount code. It really was the sponsor
Speaker 1: that you had on your podcast was yeah, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: I was.
Speaker 3: I was circling back, which I so aware Beta brand
Speaker 3: sponsored me again, what's a sponsor?
Speaker 1: Always a sponsor you're in so deep. You're good. They
Speaker 1: got you for life, I know. Okay, So, Tori, when I.
Speaker 2: Had the idea of doing this, when I was coming
Speaker 2: down to DC in person to have an episode with
Speaker 2: you on yeah, it is because you were one of
Speaker 2: the people that I've known the longest in politics, yeah,
Speaker 2: which is crazy.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: And you were a wee baby politico in infant and
Speaker 2: infinite when.
Speaker 1: We had because you were the head of the College Democrats. Yeah,
Speaker 1: as an infant, as an infant yeah. And I was
Speaker 1: the head of the Young Democrats of America. Yeah.
Speaker 2: And then the organizations were at war, of course, naturally,
Speaker 2: why would not anything in the Democratic Party not be
Speaker 2: at war entirely?
Speaker 1: And then you became the head of the youth engagement
Speaker 1: at the convention, that's right. Yeah, so our power dynamic,
Speaker 1: Like you really had the upper hand very quickly. Oh wow,
Speaker 1: I never thought of it like that. Oh I definitely did.
Speaker 1: Oh did you really? Oh my god, Oh she's in.
Speaker 2: College, but now she holds all of my faith And
Speaker 2: you really handled that howard beautifully.
Speaker 1: Oh, thank you so much.
Speaker 3: I think I was like, I don't know that I
Speaker 3: fully knew that I had it all so that probably helped.
Speaker 1: When you don't know how much power you're wielding.
Speaker 3: But yeah, I mean I was like a baby, I
Speaker 3: mean like twenty, but yeah, in my mind, a baby.
Speaker 1: You handled yourself very professionally. Thank you, thank you. Well.
Speaker 3: I was like, that was one of my first like
Speaker 3: real jobs, that convention job, and because before I had
Speaker 3: just been doing like student organizing and I was in college,
Speaker 3: and so I feel like every time I went to
Speaker 3: that job, I was like, oh God, they're gonna realize
Speaker 3: that I'm a child, and they're not gonna let me
Speaker 3: have this job anymore.
Speaker 1: So I was always on like my best foot forward. Well,
Speaker 1: I remember you. I remember sitting in a meeting with you.
Speaker 1: Maybe it was at the convention, but it was like
Speaker 1: a tense meeting and you were running it and you
Speaker 1: handled the pressure very well. Wow, I held an awkward conversation.
Speaker 1: Shout out to twenty year old toy, we love her,
Speaker 1: we love her.
Speaker 2: So then after that, so after the convention, I actually
Speaker 2: don't know what you did after that, But then a
Speaker 2: few years, like a few jobs into it, I was
Speaker 2: able to.
Speaker 1: Recruit you over to work on my team. Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah, at Center for American Progress, Yeah, which was a
Speaker 2: real highlight for which was only like three years later,
Speaker 2: which that feels like it was like ten years later,
Speaker 2: but it wasn't that long after that. Well, you were
Speaker 2: already I remember when you came over, you were on
Speaker 2: a list of rising stars in Washington, because I was like, oh,
Speaker 2: did you guys see the get who's coming to my team?
Speaker 1: She is a rising star?
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I remember that she had no impression in
Speaker 2: those three years.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, that was a a meteoric rise for baby toy.
Speaker 3: She became like a toddler and then like a rising
Speaker 3: star and then just like a regular adult. Like so
Speaker 3: there's like that window where if like you're just young enough,
Speaker 3: everyone's like, oh my god, it's so cool to have
Speaker 3: like young people in the room, like what a wonder kid.
Speaker 3: And then you like reach like twenty five or twenty six,
Speaker 3: and I'm like, okay, you're just like everybody else.
Speaker 1: Like, wow, go do your job. It's nothing special. Now
Speaker 1: it's time to do your job. Yeah, yeah, nothing special.
Speaker 1: So I appreciated the years where I was special.
Speaker 2: Well, I remember feeling like I could not believe that
Speaker 2: I had I was so happy that I had recruited
Speaker 2: you over because I was like I get to hang
Speaker 2: out with.
Speaker 1: Toy every day. Oh, that's so funny.
Speaker 2: And that era lasted less long than I would have
Speaker 2: liked it too, of us actually working together.
Speaker 1: I know. Do you remember that conversation? Yeah, yeah, that
Speaker 1: Hillary Clinton sucked me away.
Speaker 2: You did it tactfully when you came to me and
Speaker 2: you said there's only one job that I would leave
Speaker 2: this job for.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and they just offered it to me. I know,
Speaker 1: I know, I remember that, Like I remember like being in.
Speaker 3: The office having that conversation, because like I remember going
Speaker 3: into those interviews. One I'm obviously obsessed with Hillary Clinton
Speaker 3: and always had been, but I was like, oh, there's
Speaker 3: really like only like a couple of jobs that would
Speaker 3: makes sense for me to leave for. And then I
Speaker 3: get on the phone they offered me that exact job.
Speaker 3: I'm like, Okay, well.
Speaker 1: Look at God, Look at God. Who am I to
Speaker 1: argue with this? Yeah? Yeah, it feels like destiny.
Speaker 3: And it was also just like I feel like Emily
Speaker 3: won't be mad at me for going to try to
Speaker 3: elect the first female president. You know.
Speaker 1: That was like, you know, you're you make a good argument.
Speaker 3: You know. It was just like for anyone in anyone
Speaker 3: but Hillary Clinton. It might have been a problem, but
Speaker 3: it's just like, okay, well, you know, first female president, Okay, whatever.
Speaker 2: Well, I can't remember how much I communicated to you
Speaker 2: about this at the time because I was so insecure
Speaker 2: about it. But I had just gotten married and immediately
Speaker 2: gotten pregnant, so I knew that I wasn't going to
Speaker 2: be able to go work on the campaign, even though.
Speaker 1: That had been my dream.
Speaker 2: But I knew it wasn't going to be an option
Speaker 2: for me, and you got basically the best job I
Speaker 2: could have imagined, Like I hadn't necessarily put myself out there,
Speaker 2: but also nobody had.
Speaker 1: Called me for it.
Speaker 2: So I was happy for you, but also jealous that
Speaker 2: you were one.
Speaker 1: Offered the job and two able to take it.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I want I never even knew that you were jealous.
Speaker 3: I you know, it was really I was going to
Speaker 3: represent us both. It was like us as a Unich going,
Speaker 3: well you always you know, if you can then I will,
Speaker 3: you know, right, Yeah, it was it was me why,
Speaker 3: I like, it was so special because my the first
Speaker 3: thing a man I ever worked on was Hillary Clinton's
Speaker 3: and Jy and eight, and I was like the first
Speaker 3: time I ever got involve in politics. So there was
Speaker 3: like this like sentimental, like full circle moment about it.
Speaker 3: It's like, oh, I like started as an intern in
Speaker 3: two thousand and eight, and now I'm going to go
Speaker 3: be dead the women Vote director in headquarters.
Speaker 1: It was really cute. Yeah, me and my grandmother talked
Speaker 1: about it a lot. I absuper shooting. I know, I
Speaker 1: know I had the baby. I remember I.
Speaker 2: Brought him to visit you in headquarters and in Brooklyn.
Speaker 1: Yeah, took him.
Speaker 3: Yeah, because I'm obsessed with children and babies in particular,
Speaker 3: Like I love babies, and you brought the baby to
Speaker 3: headquarters Dean, which is crazy to even think about Dean
Speaker 3: as a baby now, but I remember, like you gave
Speaker 3: him to me, and I just kind of like trotted
Speaker 3: off and I.
Speaker 2: Was thrilled because I wasn't sure that I was taking
Speaker 2: care of him correctly.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, Geori feels more confident than I do with
Speaker 1: this four week old.
Speaker 2: I think he was literally three to four weeks old.
Speaker 2: I was in my head, Yeah, I was looking back
Speaker 2: to my pictures. He was like four weeks old.
Speaker 1: I have this like screenshot.
Speaker 3: I think it was like maybe you took it on
Speaker 3: snapchat or something and sent it later. But it was
Speaker 3: like a screenshot of like me holding Dean in a
Speaker 3: very far away part of the office, and like the
Speaker 3: caption was just like Tory ran away with I was like,
Speaker 3: there goes touring with my child something like that. And
Speaker 3: so that's the only like photographic evidence I have of
Speaker 3: him been in the office. Is me somewhere in a corner,
Speaker 3: like low key kidnapping him.
Speaker 2: Just a very small granulated dot representing the presential campaign.
Speaker 1: Well at the time, kidnapping children.
Speaker 2: Well that's actually also probably was representing the campaign well
Speaker 2: because on that same trip, HRC was in the city
Speaker 2: and in my mom's building, and my mom was like, oh,
Speaker 2: let's bring Dean.
Speaker 1: What was she thinking?
Speaker 2: So we actually went over to that event, and because
Speaker 2: she loves babies, she was like, oh, look at this
Speaker 2: cute little baby. And then the next day or I
Speaker 2: think that day was the day that she fell down.
Speaker 1: Oh I don't know that she had the flu.
Speaker 2: Oh yes, I remember this now, and we were like,
Speaker 2: let's never show this photographic evidence that she may have
Speaker 2: given a pre vaccinated baby at the flu.
Speaker 3: Oh.
Speaker 1: I was actually liked, Dean give her the.
Speaker 3: Fluor oh, no, no, no, no, no.
Speaker 1: No no, that's not a story. That's not a story.
Speaker 2: But I do feel like that was the beginning. Like
Speaker 2: I've talked about this a lot, especially in this podcast,
Speaker 2: but like that was kind of like the beginning of
Speaker 2: the end of my downward trajectory of my political career,
Speaker 2: like of all the things that I thought I was
Speaker 2: working towards. Yeah, you and I both know, like living
Speaker 2: and working in this political world that like you live
Speaker 2: in a two year cycle a congressional cycle, and you
Speaker 2: live in a four year cycle of presidential cycle. So
Speaker 2: like every job you take, you're like thinking about how
Speaker 2: long am I going to be in it before I
Speaker 2: can get back on a campaign, because that's what really
Speaker 2: drives me, and how am I going to be positioned
Speaker 2: for it? And like what am I lacking that I
Speaker 2: could then build myself into potentially for the next job,
Speaker 2: And like that was the beginning of the end for
Speaker 2: me that like I couldn't be in the mix, I
Speaker 2: couldn't be in the cycle.
Speaker 1: But you have done it.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, honestly, when you think about it, like
Speaker 3: the sector is like so brutal, especially you know, I
Speaker 3: think also being in a city like Washington, d C.
Speaker 1: I mean the comparison cycle. You just can't escape it.
Speaker 3: Like, what do you mean the comparison cycle, Like you know,
Speaker 3: because so many people who I think enter political careers,
Speaker 3: whether it's like an advocacy or campaigns. It's like you said,
Speaker 3: it's like it's just a constant, you know, seemingly ladder
Speaker 3: to different things or like a jungle gem, always like
Speaker 3: switching jobs or like having that cyclical nature. And I
Speaker 3: think it's really hard to like be in such a
Speaker 3: like a condensed ecosystem like DC where everyone has jobs
Speaker 3: like that, Like your social circle is probably people who
Speaker 3: also have jobs like that.
Speaker 1: And I just.
Speaker 3: Feel like it's impossible to like not compare your journey
Speaker 3: with your friends or like coworkers or like anyone that
Speaker 3: you meet.
Speaker 1: And I think that's just it's really hard.
Speaker 3: And I think especially if you're making a pivot or
Speaker 3: like a transition out of that into like a different
Speaker 3: chapter or a different era, I think it's really hard
Speaker 3: to make that transition like while you're still like in
Speaker 3: the minutia of like a city where people are so
Speaker 3: obsessive about stuff like that.
Speaker 1: Totally agree with you.
Speaker 2: I mean, I was at the White House yesterday for
Speaker 2: this Women's History Month reception, And it was so interesting
Speaker 2: because there were obviously a lot of people that I
Speaker 2: know are in and out of the administration, and some
Speaker 2: that I don't know. And as friends were introducing me
Speaker 2: to people who were in the admin who I didn't know,
Speaker 2: they definitely started like a little bit of distance and
Speaker 2: like I don't know you, like who are you? And
Speaker 2: then the way that I would validate myself, I was like, oh,
Speaker 2: I was a cat for a long time and they're like,
Speaker 2: oh great, or like they're like maybe I recognize you,
Speaker 2: and I was like, oh, probably from cable news.
Speaker 1: And they're like oh yeah, yeah, yeah, good to see
Speaker 1: you again.
Speaker 2: But it was so funny, like the dagnal change and
Speaker 2: I saw and I was talking to one person who
Speaker 2: like I didn't know that well, but since I saw her,
Speaker 2: I went over to hello, as I generally do, and
Speaker 2: her demeanor towards me like clearly she gets she's like
Speaker 2: a very high position in the White House, and like
Speaker 2: she clearly gets hit up all the.
Speaker 1: Time for things.
Speaker 2: So the first like forty five seconds of our discussion
Speaker 2: were very different than the following minutes.
Speaker 1: Like she at first she was like very guard yeah
Speaker 1: though she recognized me a new made Yeah.
Speaker 2: And then once she realized that I didn't want anything
Speaker 2: from her and I just wanted to like ket its
Speaker 2: yeah catch up.
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah. She was like, oh I forgot how to
Speaker 1: do this nice. This isn't a transaction. I can like
Speaker 1: be normal. Yeah, yeah, totally.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean that is That is I think like
Speaker 3: one of the worst parts about this city. It's just
Speaker 3: like it is so transactional. And you can tell like
Speaker 3: when you're like out of a party or like networking
Speaker 3: or like you can tell immediately like the vibe from
Speaker 3: someone when they're like assessing like what value can I
Speaker 3: gain from you? What can you offer me as like
Speaker 3: a person in your job or whatever. And it is, Yeah,
Speaker 3: it's a little soul sucking sometimes, and it's like it's
Speaker 3: hard to also, I think, like maintain like some authenticity
Speaker 3: yourself because like you like rolled into that event like
Speaker 3: wanting to have a good time, like excited to be there,
Speaker 3: and like, you know, when you interact with so many
Speaker 3: people that like are clearly like making like a calculation,
Speaker 3: you know, like it's it's like a kills the vibe
Speaker 3: a little bit, you know, and especially like when you're
Speaker 3: super young, like you might not be as confident to
Speaker 3: like keep your vibe up when you get that from somebody.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know it starts out that way.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's just like you're at the point where like
Speaker 3: you've got a great life and like you have all
Speaker 3: this stuff going on and you have confidence, and you know,
Speaker 3: a bad interaction like that someone is like not going
Speaker 3: to like ruin your day. But like if you would
Speaker 3: have had that conversation, like maybe when you're like twenty two,
Speaker 3: like you probably would have responded different, right, So totally, yeah,
Speaker 3: you know, it.
Speaker 1: Was so funny.
Speaker 2: Alison Zelman called me yesterday when I was talking to
Speaker 2: somebody who I didn't know, Like I was talking.
Speaker 1: To Eleman and this other woman who had worked with
Speaker 1: her before it came over.
Speaker 2: So I was just chatting with her and I was like, oh,
Speaker 2: do you live in Washington? And Zelma looked at me
Speaker 2: and she was like, you speak differently, Yeah, you don't
Speaker 2: live here.
Speaker 1: She was like, no, what you would say Washington?
Speaker 3: Yeah, like people would say, like, do you it that's
Speaker 3: true in a D three And I.
Speaker 1: Was like, yeah, that's right, Like now that I'm outside DC.
Speaker 3: Community thing, Yeah, I hearder Like last year, I took
Speaker 3: a little bit of a break, as you know, I
Speaker 3: like went away for like three months in between like
Speaker 3: two jobs. And whenever I was thinking about like where
Speaker 3: I wanted to take my break, like I was like, oh,
Speaker 3: I could just have a staycation in d C. Or
Speaker 3: like maybe I'll go to New York or California. And
Speaker 3: finally I was like, no, I have to like physically
Speaker 3: leave the country because like I need to be like
Speaker 3: away from the DC culture and kind of the grind
Speaker 3: of it all. And I will say, like as soon
Speaker 3: as like the plane lifted off taking me from DC
Speaker 3: to Europe, my shoulders like it was the best.
Speaker 1: Anti anxiety medication I've ever taken ever just leave it.
Speaker 3: Yeah, Yeah, it was like the tension just like relaxed
Speaker 3: from my shoulders. And I tell people now that you
Speaker 3: know I was. I talked to my partner about this
Speaker 3: a lot, Like whenever I get anxious or stressed about stuff,
Speaker 3: I'm like, I don't think I'll ever fully be able
Speaker 3: to relax living in Washington, d C. Yeah, Like there's
Speaker 3: just like so much going on, like it's it's hard
Speaker 3: to break out of that cycle no matter how like
Speaker 3: how confident and kind of like self fulfilled, like how
Speaker 3: much purpose you have and like how driven you are.
Speaker 3: It's like, you know, one day I'm just moved to
Speaker 3: a farm and I'll be healed, or New York a
Speaker 3: certainty place in sag Harbor.
Speaker 1: We welcome you. I mean, I there are so many
Speaker 1: good parts about living here, Like there's.
Speaker 3: Lots of opportunities, there's always stuff to do, and like
Speaker 3: for all the like the bad people, there are also
Speaker 3: a lot of great people that you know are so
Speaker 3: smart there. They are so like mission driven and it
Speaker 3: is neat to like be immersed in that. But like
Speaker 3: there's a trade off, right, it's like good and bad.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean I don't say, like why do you
Speaker 2: say it in a judgmental way? You know I've said
Speaker 2: you one hundred times. Yeah, I'm so jealous that I
Speaker 2: can't still be in it, Like I miss it. Yeah,
Speaker 2: I miss the pace, I mean and the impact. I
Speaker 2: miss that, like we can actually change a lot of lives.
Speaker 2: We change and we have good laws.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, it's all it's all fun.
Speaker 3: But I mean, like what you're doing is so cool,
Speaker 3: Like I would almost like turn it around opposite, Like
Speaker 3: I feel like you are in this place where like
Speaker 3: you're like meeting all of these different people, You're having
Speaker 3: all of these really interesting conversations and all these interesting gatherings,
Speaker 3: and like also like being able to flex all this
Speaker 3: creative muscle that actually it feels really difficult to do
Speaker 3: in politics. Is like a lot of people work in
Speaker 3: a box here and can get a little formulaic, and
Speaker 3: I don't know, it's just like you're doing stuff that's
Speaker 3: still like mission driven and fulfilling and meaningful, with just
Speaker 3: like a different lens and like with all these different people.
Speaker 1: And I don't know, I feel like the older I get, the.
Speaker 3: More I'm appreciative of past chapters of my career and
Speaker 3: also like get a little bit closer to like feeling
Speaker 3: good about while the next chapter could look so different,
Speaker 3: Like your chapter looks so different than what it looks
Speaker 3: like here, but it also feels just as exciting and
Speaker 3: like fulfilling in like a different way.
Speaker 1: And I don't know, it's like it's cool to think
Speaker 1: about it.
Speaker 3: It's like, Wow, my life might not always look like this,
Speaker 3: but like there actually are really exciting ways that it
Speaker 3: could look like to not be scared of those differences, right,
Speaker 3: they could be really cool, but I like, you're a
Speaker 3: person I look at that has like done that pivot
Speaker 3: really well, and I feel like it makes people who
Speaker 3: haven't gotten to a pivot like that or gotten to
Speaker 3: like writing their next chapter.
Speaker 1: It like gives a little hope, you know.
Speaker 3: It's like, oh, wow, well she did it, and it's
Speaker 3: like looks really cool, and like maybe it's better than
Speaker 3: what I'm doing now.
Speaker 1: You know.
Speaker 2: There definitely is a very formulaic sense of what success
Speaker 2: is in Washington. Like it's what you described before, like
Speaker 2: it's climbing the ladder, it's running an organization, Like you
Speaker 2: did a very clear formula around.
Speaker 1: What success is.
Speaker 2: I mean, it is true, like I got to interview
Speaker 2: the Vice president. I wouldn't have gotten to that if
Speaker 2: I was still here. I mean even yesterday at the
Speaker 2: White House reception, they had pointed to the crowd.
Speaker 1: I think it was I think it was the Vice president.
Speaker 1: You said it and it's like all these women here
Speaker 1: who've changed the world and hit the atmosphere.
Speaker 2: Or like something like that, but made it very clear
Speaker 2: that wanted the women in the crowd was an astronaut.
Speaker 3: Oh cool, yeah, oh yeah, that makes more sense, like
Speaker 3: a hemisphere.
Speaker 1: So weird turn of phrase, so metaphorical.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1: I pointed to her and I recognized that she had
Speaker 1: a very specific dress on.
Speaker 2: So I found her in the reception and I was like,
Speaker 2: are you an astronaut?
Speaker 1: Yeah?
Speaker 2: And she's like, well, yes I am. And I had
Speaker 2: something to ask her. I was like, can I interview you?
Speaker 3: Yeah?
Speaker 1: So I got her card and now I'm going to
Speaker 1: follow up an interview her. Cool.
Speaker 2: I don't know if she's a pivot or not, but
Speaker 2: it feels definitely worth an interview.
Speaker 1: But like before I.
Speaker 3: Would live in atlants like there, it is pivoted out
Speaker 3: of one atmospheric like situation to the next, the literal earth.
Speaker 3: Yeah yeah, wow, that is that's intense, But that was cool,
Speaker 3: like it is, it's more creative, like I had something
Speaker 3: to ask her, like I had something to connect with
Speaker 3: her on.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: And I think sometimes I probe people in an unappealing
Speaker 2: way in social settings, like maybe ask too many questions,
Speaker 2: and now it's an appropriate setting.
Speaker 1: Yeah, ask too many personal questions. Yeah, oh that's funny.
Speaker 1: That's funny.
Speaker 3: I mean yeah, I guess like having a podcast in
Speaker 3: an interview setup like is a natural way to be
Speaker 3: very direct yeah, versus like, you know, seeing someone at
Speaker 3: a party and being like, are you an astronaut?
Speaker 1: Tell me the twelve steps that got you there? Yeah,
Speaker 1: I'd love to know. Yeah, what did you major in college? Yeah? Yeah,
Speaker 1: tell me about your parents.
Speaker 3: I guess like an interview setting does feel like natural
Speaker 3: for that, right, and someone might prep for those types
Speaker 3: of questions beforehand, But I.
Speaker 2: Didn't want to go into that cocktail astronaut conversation cold.
Speaker 1: I was like, Yea, I'm unprepared for this moment. I
Speaker 1: have a lot of questions, but I don't necessarily know
Speaker 1: what they are. That's so funny.
Speaker 3: I feel like sometimes like I'll be like I feel
Speaker 3: like I'm kind of similar. I'll be like at a
Speaker 3: happy hour or something. I have this like happy hour
Speaker 3: that I do with my friends like every Tuesday, and
Speaker 3: sometimes I'll just be like we we like talk about work,
Speaker 3: and like all of a sudden, like, why don't you
Speaker 3: just like switch it up, like tell me about your trauma?
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 3: I Like, I feel like the girls that regularly go
Speaker 3: are just like, yeah, yeah, let's like let's okay, We've
Speaker 3: got a list of traumas. Let's just like talk through them.
Speaker 3: We've got like, you know, drinks and whatnot. But every
Speaker 3: now and then we'll have like a guest, right that
Speaker 3: doesn't always come. And it's like, okay, like all right,
Speaker 3: so what is your trauma person that just like came here?
Speaker 1: And she's like, oh, I'm not too common. I like,
Speaker 1: is this a cocktail party?
Speaker 3: Yeah, let's like keep the vibes light. I'm like, oh
Speaker 3: this is light, Like this is okay. Let's just let's
Speaker 3: just make this deeper than just your normal interaction that.
Speaker 2: Makes you so incredibly well prepared to have young children
Speaker 2: and meet friends through that, because that's basically what the
Speaker 2: conversations are like.
Speaker 1: And there's no conversation transitions.
Speaker 2: Because at any moment, like anyone could be pulling you,
Speaker 2: yelling on you, pulling at you. So you're like, let's
Speaker 2: just have half a conversation here about why my perspective
Speaker 2: has led me to overly analyze this part of my
Speaker 2: child and beat myself up about it, and let's go
Speaker 2: right into what did we make them for?
Speaker 1: Like pack them for lunch? Like those transitions become very fast.
Speaker 2: Yeah, half a conversation on each Okay, that makes me
Speaker 2: feel good, That makes me feel Yeah, I like to
Speaker 2: be prepared for anything that a piece you didn't know
Speaker 2: you were preparing for. But does the fact that we
Speaker 2: have gone through all of these phases in tandem, like
Speaker 2: somewhat together, like in tandem? But I am like the
Speaker 2: having children step head yeah, and then three three three
Speaker 2: two right forehead yeah, and then I couldn't keep up
Speaker 2: like the very clear shared political goal that we had
Speaker 2: both had in our careers.
Speaker 1: Does it scare you? Or how much does it scare you?
Speaker 3: I mean, I'll be honest, I actually feel like what
Speaker 3: And I'm not even saying it's to like puff you
Speaker 3: up or whatever, But I do feel like watching you
Speaker 3: do the next thing has made me less scared. Like
Speaker 3: I feel like there was a time in my life
Speaker 3: where it made me very nervous to think about not
Speaker 3: being in this right like not being like in DC
Speaker 3: in the grind, like constantly hustling.
Speaker 1: For like the next big thing.
Speaker 3: And I do feel like as I've gotten older and
Speaker 3: I've watched other people make transitions that feel super exciting
Speaker 3: and like feel like, wow, that that looks really cool,
Speaker 3: I feel like I've gotten into this mindset of just
Speaker 3: like you should just think about like the next things
Speaker 3: in your life. It's like if something feels exciting and
Speaker 3: feels like you're growing, like you should do it. And
Speaker 3: like if it doesn't feel exciting or if it doesn't
Speaker 3: feel so like you're growing, like you should not do it.
Speaker 3: And also like never do anything that doesn't make you happy.
Speaker 3: And that has been like almost it feels really simple,
Speaker 3: but it's actually been like a really nice north star
Speaker 3: over the past few years because like it has gotten
Speaker 3: me a little bit away from like am I doing
Speaker 3: am I taking like a career trajectory because it makes
Speaker 3: me happy and it feels exciting and it feels like
Speaker 3: I'm growing or that like there's a formula in my
Speaker 3: mind that feels like I need to hit. And like
Speaker 3: it's actually been really interesting to like reconcile those two things.
Speaker 3: Is this just a ladder then I'm climbing like kind
Speaker 3: of mindlessly or is this something that actually is fulfilling?
Speaker 3: And you know, I think that has been kind of
Speaker 3: an interesting like realization over the last few years. But
Speaker 3: it is helpful to see other people like successfully pivot
Speaker 3: and like write new chapters that are equally fulfilling and
Speaker 3: equally interesting and to know that like you can do
Speaker 3: something different and like not only be okay, but actually
Speaker 3: maybe even be happier than you were before.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, and I feel like I could only
Speaker 2: get to it by having a rock bottom.
Speaker 1: So I don't hope that for you. Do you feel
Speaker 1: like where was your rock bottom?
Speaker 2: It was drawing a lockdown and like the and sort
Speaker 2: of up until the presidential like in twenty twenty. Interesting
Speaker 2: because I had had this idea going into twenty twenty
Speaker 2: that I was going to have the third baby in February.
Speaker 2: I knew what eternity leave looked like, and I was
Speaker 2: going to consult. I was going to have fine position
Speaker 2: myself to either consult directly for the presidential or something
Speaker 2: around it, and that was going to be the way
Speaker 2: that I stayed involved in politics, and I was going
Speaker 2: to keep myself relevant that I could be in the mix.
Speaker 1: For, you know, whatever the next ladder was.
Speaker 2: And I just couldn't do it, Like all of that
Speaker 2: was predicated on the idea that I would have child
Speaker 2: care and the structure around me, and because it all disappeared,
Speaker 2: I couldn't even keep my head on, Like I was
Speaker 2: breastfeeding and my milk dried up from stress, like it
Speaker 2: was it just it all like everything fell apart, and
Speaker 2: I kept being like, okay, I'll just do you know,
Speaker 2: like I'll bandy this one last thing with this all
Speaker 2: bandied this with thing.
Speaker 1: And then I realized it was no band dating left.
Speaker 1: It was all gone. And then I finally got one.
Speaker 2: Serious gootv end of the election contract and I was
Speaker 2: executing for the last two weeks of the election.
Speaker 1: Is remember this pre vaccine and our nanny.
Speaker 2: What we had been doing for child's care, is that
Speaker 2: our nanny had been coming to stay with us for
Speaker 2: like that fourteen days on and off. And as she
Speaker 2: had been with because that was what people thought was
Speaker 2: the length that you could.
Speaker 1: Yeah, So as.
Speaker 2: She'd been with us for four days, then she started
Speaker 2: to feel a little sick, got a COVID test, she
Speaker 2: had COVID.
Speaker 1: She went home, but she had already been with us
Speaker 1: for four days.
Speaker 2: So we were in like full lockdown quarantine with all
Speaker 2: three kids, couldn't see another person. And like that last
Speaker 2: presidential contract disappeared like I couldn't do it. It was just
Speaker 2: it was like, all right, well this is the end. Yeah,
Speaker 2: And actually you know what I did at that point
Speaker 2: is I spent all of my time going around pitching
Speaker 2: women's magazines that I had had some some I had
Speaker 2: had a connection to, so I had none saying, Hey,
Speaker 2: the election's not going to be decided on election Day,
Speaker 2: and you guys are going to need somebody to be able.
Speaker 1: To explain to your listeners what's going to happen or
Speaker 1: your readers. Yeah, what's going to happen? I think you
Speaker 1: should bring me on. Yeah, And nobody wanted to bring me.
Speaker 2: On, and even Marie Claire, but it least opened the
Speaker 2: door for me to have a conversation with them. So
Speaker 2: when I had the non political idea to do sheep Pivots,
Speaker 2: we had already had.
Speaker 1: Some dialogue and been able to go back.
Speaker 2: Sure, but my dream had been to decipher this for
Speaker 2: a women's magazine, and nobody wanted to bring me on
Speaker 2: for it. So I was like, well, I came up
Speaker 2: with the perfect compromise and nobody wants it.
Speaker 3: Yeah, God, that sounds awful. How do you think you
Speaker 3: came out of it as you were like in the
Speaker 3: rock bottom? Like, when is the time that you felt
Speaker 3: like you started to see light out at the end
Speaker 3: of it?
Speaker 1: I mean I still struggle, Yeah, because I.
Speaker 2: Still struggle with my physical limitations, like my bandwidth and
Speaker 2: energy is just literally.
Speaker 1: Sucked by my children.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm pretty sure right now my whole body is
Speaker 2: itchy with a recurring Rosetia virus that I have, oh Jesus,
Speaker 2: which is.
Speaker 1: Also ing my bandwidth. So I still struggle with that.
Speaker 1: But you don't look itchy at all. Oh it feels
Speaker 1: a little itchy and yeah, yeah, no, like if I
Speaker 1: would just looked at you, I wouldn't even thought. I
Speaker 1: wouldn't even thought that you were going to itch somewhere.
Speaker 1: Oh you know, Okay, I'm better at masking it. But
Speaker 1: I think it started to become real.
Speaker 2: I think when Marie Claire said yes, I think that
Speaker 2: was the beginning of it starting to feel real and
Speaker 2: starting to find a new rhythm.
Speaker 1: Like the shape of its.
Speaker 2: Format is very different than what your political playlist had been.
Speaker 2: I don't know, Like I feel like there's little validators
Speaker 2: that come, you know, releasing our first season was a validator,
Speaker 2: like being in a real studio. I'd be like, oh,
Speaker 2: your hair for this podcast, Like interviewing the vice president,
Speaker 2: Yeah that felt cool. That was a huge validator. Yeah,
Speaker 2: But so I think that I get like pieces of
Speaker 2: validation that it feels real, but like the daily balance
Speaker 2: with my kids can sometimes feel so chaotic that I
Speaker 2: feel like I'm not putting enough energy into building building
Speaker 2: the show and building the community, and also not enough
Speaker 2: into my children. Yeah, so then it's hard to totally
Speaker 2: feel like, yeah, I nailed it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's that's.
Speaker 3: The stuff that scares me about having kids, the feeling
Speaker 3: of like there's never enough time or just not feeling
Speaker 3: like you can do it all right, because like, I mean,
Speaker 3: I don't feel like I can do it all and
Speaker 3: I have kids. I have like two dogs and like
Speaker 3: they don't need anything like kids be and a garden
Speaker 3: and yeah, and a garden which you know, like if
Speaker 3: I like don't water it for a week, like and
Speaker 3: it does, Like I mean that's different than like, you know,
Speaker 3: not meeting expectations as a parent. That's that's sometimes like
Speaker 3: that because I feel like a lot of my people
Speaker 3: I know with children, like especially women, like really struggle
Speaker 3: with like that balance. And I don't know that I've
Speaker 3: ever like talked to someone that's just like, yeah, I
Speaker 3: absolutely nailed it, Like I have the perfect formula. I'm
Speaker 3: gonna sell this shit on QBC and and it's going
Speaker 3: to be great. Like I've never heard someone say that.
Speaker 3: It just always feels challenging and like a daily balance,
Speaker 3: and you know that you can never like totally take
Speaker 3: your eye off the ball because like something goes a wire.
Speaker 3: And yeah, it just seems really hard.
Speaker 1: But I don't know.
Speaker 3: I hope that you figure out the formula before I
Speaker 3: have kids, you know, so you know what.
Speaker 2: I actually just had a memory of doing in the
Speaker 2: four months that I lived in Manhattan.
Speaker 1: The first live podcast I ever.
Speaker 2: Did was interviewing you as a political strategist in front
Speaker 2: of a live audience.
Speaker 1: Oh do you remember that? I do remember that.
Speaker 3: It was like ninety second Street or something like that.
Speaker 3: I don't remember something like that.
Speaker 2: But it was also right when my son was starting
Speaker 2: his first preschool program and I've gone in for the
Speaker 2: orientation and they said, where is your photo book?
Speaker 1: Where are your pictures of your family? And where is
Speaker 1: your box? And I was like, what are you talking about?
Speaker 1: As a box? What the book is a box?
Speaker 2: I broke down hysterically crying in the meeting with the teacher,
Speaker 2: and I was like, I am so unprepared for this.
Speaker 1: And then I went to go meet you and I
Speaker 1: couldn't stop crying. Yeah, and you.
Speaker 2: Said, we're not going to prepare for this interview right now,
Speaker 2: let's go buy supplies made, and.
Speaker 1: We made his book. Couldn't find you made his photo books.
Speaker 1: I remember that. That was God, that was funny. It
Speaker 1: was a fun little craft. We had a nice little craft.
Speaker 3: You know.
Speaker 1: I couldn't start crying, but sure we made beautiful craft.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Crafts can be emotional. They elicit things.
Speaker 3: You know. Yeah, that's so funny. But you know, also
Speaker 3: on the inswell you made the box. We did the
Speaker 3: interview and it was great.
Speaker 1: It was great.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it was a great episode. It was That was
Speaker 3: a really fun live event too.
Speaker 2: That wasn't fun.
Speaker 1: Yeah, crowd, that was really fun.
Speaker 3: I think that might have been like my first like
Speaker 3: live podcast like interview ever.
Speaker 1: Me too, I think I don't know. I think it
Speaker 1: was maybe.
Speaker 3: Yeah, look at us, Look at us breaking barriers and
Speaker 3: doing crafts simultaneously. Now we're recording in a hotel room. Yeah,
Speaker 3: I really fancy No tears yet, not over yet, it's
Speaker 3: still early in the day.
Speaker 1: Oh, that's so funny.
Speaker 2: What do you feel like you still need to do
Speaker 2: in politics?
Speaker 1: Oh? Interesting? I don't know.
Speaker 3: That there's anything that like I like a single thing
Speaker 3: that I'm just like, oh, I have to check this box, right,
Speaker 3: Like I think I definitely felt like that during my twenties.
Speaker 3: I was like, Oh, I'd really like to manage a campaign,
Speaker 3: I'd really like to be an executive director of an organization,
Speaker 3: and I've feel got to do a lot of those things.
Speaker 3: And so it's actually sometimes it feels a little bit
Speaker 3: weird that like there's not like that exact title or
Speaker 3: that exact organization that I'm just like, I have to
Speaker 3: do this then I'll feel done. But in other ways,
Speaker 3: it's like kind of freeing because it's like it makes
Speaker 3: me more open to doing different types of stuff.
Speaker 1: So I don't know if there's a single thing.
Speaker 3: I think like what I'm excited about next and want
Speaker 3: to do next is like something that like feels like
Speaker 3: really big and socially impactful, you know, whether that's in
Speaker 3: like partisan politics, whether that's like at a private company,
Speaker 3: or like I'm kind of interested in like the next
Speaker 3: layer of like impact, you know, because I think I
Speaker 3: thought for so long impact just meets politics, yeah, right,
Speaker 3: And the world of impact and social impact is like
Speaker 3: so much bigger than that, so I'm like kind of
Speaker 3: excited to like see what comes next.
Speaker 1: So yeah, I don't know if there's a single thing
Speaker 1: to be so accomplished so young. I've met all of
Speaker 1: your goals.
Speaker 3: But but on the other hand, I will say, like,
Speaker 3: you know, something I reflect back on is like, when
Speaker 3: I met some of those goals, I wasn't always like
Speaker 3: that happy, you know, And that actually made me like
Speaker 3: think a little bit differently about having like such a
Speaker 3: single track minded towards like Plan A or Plan B.
Speaker 3: Because a couple of times when I like met those
Speaker 3: goals and like, wow, I've been working my entire life
Speaker 3: to get this title at this organization and be in
Speaker 3: charge of these things. And I remember talking to like
Speaker 3: some mentors afterwards and be like, I worked so hard
Speaker 3: to get this.
Speaker 1: I hate it.
Speaker 3: Like I'm so unhappy. I thought I would really like
Speaker 3: this and I didn't. And so like, honestly, those like
Speaker 3: experiences have like helps me be a little bit more open.
Speaker 3: It's just like, you know, these things that you think
Speaker 3: you want for so long, like sometimes they're a little
Speaker 3: bit different than you think they might be, and so
Speaker 3: having an open mind like hopefully will serve me well
Speaker 3: in the Future.
Speaker 2: The Nightmare of managing Hannah just kidding, just kidding you,
Speaker 2: Tory Taylor, political strategist wonder Can extraordinaire.
Speaker 1: Thank you for joining us older wonder Can now thank
Speaker 1: you for having me. What a treat.
Speaker 2: Thanks for listening to this candid convo episode of she Pivots.
Speaker 2: Check back in weekly for more conversations with inspiring women.
Speaker 2: To learn more about our guests, follow us on Instagram
Speaker 2: at she pivots the podcast. Leave a rating and comment
Speaker 2: if you enjoyed this episode to help others learn about it.
Speaker 2: A special thank you to our partner Marie Claire and
Speaker 2: the team that made this episode possible. Talk to you
Speaker 2: next week. She Pivots is hosted by me Emily Tish Sussman,
Speaker 2: produced by Emily Eda Voloshik, with sound editing and mixing
Speaker 2: from Nina Pollock and research and planning from Christine Dickinson
Speaker 2: and Hannah Cousins.
Speaker 1: I endorse she Pivots