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Speaker 1: It's time lo welcome to the Naughty but Nice I'm

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Speaker 1: your host, Rams Shooter, and it's Thursday, my favorite day

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Speaker 1: of the week. I love Thursdays. I just love Thursdays

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Speaker 1: because I can see the weekend. I can literally see it.

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Speaker 1: And I could go out tonight and get a little

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Speaker 1: sloppy and make it through a Friday. Because it's only

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Speaker 1: one day, I have to pretend to be together. I

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Speaker 1: might do that tonight. But the other reason I love

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Speaker 1: her Thursday is because our dear friend Mark Lupo joins us. Hey, Loopy,

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Speaker 1: are you there? Loopy? Louvers here?

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Speaker 2: And I love seeing you Thursday.

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Speaker 1: Rab Can you believe we've been doing this almost five years.

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Speaker 2: I think back to the first day just it's crazy

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Speaker 2: how much times past and all the shows we've done.

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Speaker 2: It's been a lot of fun.

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Speaker 1: It's been a lot of fun. We also got pretty

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Speaker 1: good at it, if I say so myself. If you

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Speaker 1: go back and listen to some of our really early episodes,

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Speaker 1: thank you Naughtis for sticking with us, because I'm not

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Speaker 1: sure I wouldn't. It was a little rough in the beginning.

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Speaker 1: It was a learning curve. Mark, we had to learn this.

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Speaker 2: We did but we got to a great place.

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Speaker 1: We got to a great place. Thank you, Naughty's it's

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Speaker 1: all because of you. Let's jump into the show. What

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Speaker 1: time is it, my friends? It is tea time, big

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Speaker 1: story at the top of the show. So you're gonna

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Speaker 1: hear a lot of rumors that Ben Affleck and Jennifer

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Speaker 1: Garner are back together because he was spotted they were

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Speaker 1: out with their kid. They were out with their son, Samuel,

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Speaker 1: and he was spotted affectionately grabbing her by the waist.

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Speaker 1: He pulled her in. Mark they're out together, and he

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Speaker 1: pulled her in. They looked terribly cozy. It was a

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Speaker 1: paint ball outing in California. The fact they're doing that

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Speaker 1: together has people gossiping. Now she still does have her

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Speaker 1: boyfriend John Miller, but people are saying, could they possibly

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Speaker 1: get back together? Let me give you the exclusive scoop. No,

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Speaker 1: she wants no part of this. She's friends with Ben.

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Speaker 1: She likes Ben. She's been down that path. She doesn't

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Speaker 1: want to go down it again. Ben will always be

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Speaker 1: in her life because of the children, and she likes him.

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Speaker 1: She does like him. Ben at his best is great,

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Speaker 1: but there's a lot of darkness, a lot of moody

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Speaker 1: moodiness that comes with Ben Affleck. She doesn't want part

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Speaker 1: of that sluppiness anymore. Now this is where it gets complicated.

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Speaker 1: The kids would love to have him back, of course

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Speaker 1: they would. They would love mommy and Daddy to get

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Speaker 1: back together, particularly Samuel, who's a little bit younger than

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Speaker 1: the girls. And so the kids here are happy. They

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Speaker 1: love these days out together with mommy and daddy. I'm

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Speaker 1: told Jennifer is like a whoa, whoa, this ain't gonna happen.

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Speaker 1: Would Ben like to have her back? There is some reporting. Yes,

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Speaker 1: I've covered Ben now for twenty years. I knew him

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Speaker 1: a little bit when I worked with Jennifer Lopez. Yes

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Speaker 1: he would, but I don't know if he can be trusted.

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Speaker 1: I think Ben wants her back today or Ben wants

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Speaker 1: it seems what he can't have, and the minute he

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Speaker 1: gets it, like Jayleen gets it, I don't know if

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Speaker 1: he wants it. So Jennifer tread carefully. I know you

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Speaker 1: already are I know if you listen to the show

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Speaker 1: and Love Love below. We are preaching to the choir.

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Speaker 1: But this is so interesting Mark he would like to

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Speaker 1: get back. She's like, oh no, no, no, Now.

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Speaker 2: You hit it right on the head. He wants what

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Speaker 2: he can't have, and when he gets it, he will

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Speaker 2: not want it any longer. And she knows that she

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Speaker 2: is not She's not dumb. She's been through this before

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Speaker 2: with him. Yes, you know, and I looking back at

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Speaker 2: the story, I completely forgot that he had the affair

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Speaker 2: of the nanny, you know, after they were married for

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Speaker 2: many years, and it's just how do you how do

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Speaker 2: you trust someone after that? It's definitely tricky, you know.

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Speaker 2: I love Jennifer Gardner, and I love that their connection

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Speaker 2: she's again still for me, feels like his caretaker. She

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Speaker 2: does not feel like it doesn't feel romantic to me.

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Speaker 2: It feels like I'm gonna look out for you in

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Speaker 2: times of struggle and then if you need me, I'll

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Speaker 2: be there for you. And we're great friends. And you're

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Speaker 2: the father to my kids. But that's that's where it

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Speaker 2: kind of ends, right right.

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Speaker 1: I don't have a father to my I don't have

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Speaker 1: I can't have babies, surprise, surprise. However, I do have

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Speaker 1: at least one friend in my life who's a little

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Speaker 1: bit of a bed affleck, a little bit of a

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Speaker 1: bad penny that I just can't get rid of I

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Speaker 1: can't because I've got too much history there. Would you

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Speaker 1: know somebody you do feel towards them? How about you? Mark?

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Speaker 1: Can you cut off a bad penny? Is it over

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Speaker 1: or no, it's over?

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Speaker 2: I can cut off a bad penny When it's over,

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Speaker 2: it's over, and that that feels good, though, like you

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Speaker 2: don't want things lingering around and hanging over your head.

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Speaker 2: And I think for her it's not that. I just

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Speaker 2: think she again knows where he is in her life

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Speaker 2: and doesn't want to fall down that path of you

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Speaker 2: know what could be and what could not be and

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Speaker 2: knowing that ultimately would not be for her.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, you're right. She's so smart. I love her.

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Speaker 1: I really do love her. Everybody I know who knows

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Speaker 1: her absolutely love her. And let's say she's super super

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Speaker 1: smart and she's not naive. She knows what this is

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Speaker 1: and there's no way she's gonna let this happen again.

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Speaker 1: She's not gonna blow up her life just on whims.

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Speaker 1: Just because Ben feels a little bit romantic today, what

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Speaker 1: should think a boyfriend thinks? Though? Because these pictures now

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Speaker 1: are everywhere, they do look really intimate. He's hugging her.

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Speaker 1: He's pulling her into his chest. It's so many manly,

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Speaker 1: it's so romantic. If I was the boyfriend, do you

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Speaker 1: think the boyfriend's Oh, Ben's at it again.

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Speaker 2: I mean, I don't think he loves to see that. However,

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Speaker 2: when you've been married to someone for many years, when

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Speaker 2: you share kids with somebody, I would imagine there is

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Speaker 2: this intimacy that you can't ignore. It doesn't mean it's romantic.

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Speaker 2: It just means there's a closeness there, that there's a

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Speaker 2: respect in a friendship. So I hope that her boyfriend

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Speaker 2: recognizes that it's not romantic on Jennifer's part, but it

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Speaker 2: just is, you know, it's their connection.

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Speaker 1: It is Mark. It's like your boyfriend recognizes you and

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Speaker 1: me are very intimate, too exact to all these forget

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Speaker 1: that's right, don't be jealousy. Mark grabs me into his

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Speaker 1: I don't. Okay, let's get to appole question of the day,

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Speaker 1: Ben Affleck and Jennifer Gardner by having some pedy, a

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Speaker 1: quite a lot of it. His hands were all over her, However,

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Speaker 1: sources saying she's not really into him. My question is

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Speaker 1: quite simple. Should these two get back together? I think

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Speaker 1: I know the answer, and I think you know the answer.

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Speaker 1: Should they get back together? Hey? Go vote on that

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Speaker 1: Twitter page had naughty nice rom Our facebook page is

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Speaker 1: naughty gossip and be sure to check that to Marau

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Speaker 1: to hear your results. Hey, Loopy, what are you working on?

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Speaker 2: This is kind of a sad story for you, Rob. So.

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Speaker 2: Michelle Trottenbergh's silent health struggles have been exposed after her

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Speaker 2: shocking death at age thirty nine. Okay, so, Hollywood was

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Speaker 2: still rooling from the sudden loss of Buffy the Vampire

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Speaker 2: Slayer and Gossip Girl alum Michelle Trattenberg, and now shocking

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Speaker 2: new details about her hidden health struggles have emerged. And Rob,

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Speaker 2: a close friend of the actress, has revealed that Trattenberg

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Speaker 2: was plagued by ongoing medical issues in the years leading

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Speaker 2: up to her tragic passing on February twenty six in

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Speaker 2: New York, and according to insiders, the beloved actress suffered

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Speaker 2: from serious back problems, bone issues, and multiple fires. It's

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Speaker 2: crazy and these challenges are things she kept largely out

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Speaker 2: of the spotlight while Trodberg maintained a brief face. Those

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Speaker 2: closer says she struggled more than anyone knew, and she

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Speaker 2: had recently undergone a liver transplant, although the circumstances surrounding

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Speaker 2: her need for the procedure remain unclear. Yeah, and I

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Speaker 2: should point out that the Mayo Clinic has listed genetic disorders, cancer, hepatitis,

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Speaker 2: and aphol consumption as common causes of liver failure. But no, no,

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Speaker 2: there's no more details yet on why she had.

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Speaker 1: Oh, it's just so heartbreaking. I want all the news

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Speaker 1: here to try and understand it. Trying to get your

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Speaker 1: mind around somebody so young, just thirty nine, dying no

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Speaker 1: longer with us. It's just so heartbreaking. I knew her

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Speaker 1: a little bit, Mark. She was like a New York

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Speaker 1: fixture on the sort of social circuit. If you got

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Speaker 1: invited to premieres or red carpet events, or even just

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Speaker 1: clubs and bars, restaurants openings, you would often bump into her.

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Speaker 1: I had dinner with her for a few times, close friends,

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Speaker 1: but I did know her. I liked her, and you

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Speaker 1: could tell she was struggling. I think she was always struggling.

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Speaker 1: Did you bump into her Mark on your travels? Did

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Speaker 1: you know her? Did you interview her?

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Speaker 2: You know what's funny, I've never encountered her in all

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Speaker 2: the years I've been doing this, and you know, and

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Speaker 2: also she really wasn't top of mind for me in

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Speaker 2: recent years.

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Speaker 1: She well, yeah, yeah, I was shocked because I did

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Speaker 1: not grow up in America, and so all these shows

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Speaker 1: that she was on, and really really huge, huge shows,

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Speaker 1: Gossip Girls, Buffy, these were huge shows. I sort of

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Speaker 1: miss them because I was in Britain. So when she

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Speaker 1: did pass the outpouring the heartbreak, Mark, it took me

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Speaker 1: a little bit by surprise. It's interesting which celebrities you

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Speaker 1: connect to, which ones you don't, and who would break

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Speaker 1: your heart and who you can cover as more of

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Speaker 1: a news story. Nevertheless, though these details are just just heartbreaking. Okay,

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Speaker 1: moving along, Megan Markle's a strange brother lower lower Larry's

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Speaker 1: back is slamming her new Netflix show as Bland and Boga.

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Speaker 1: So I didn't even know if I wanted to do

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Speaker 1: this story, Mark, but we should point out here the

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Speaker 1: poor Megan. She can't win, the critics don't like her,

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Speaker 1: and now her own family are throwing shade at her.

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Speaker 1: He did an interview on British TV and he called

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Speaker 1: the episodes very generic. But what was interesting the only

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Speaker 1: part of this that I did find interesting is he

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Speaker 1: said Meghan was not a whiz kid in the kitchen

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Speaker 1: growing up, and she wasn't always cooking stuff, and she

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Speaker 1: presents herself as somebody who sort of struggled in a

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Speaker 1: childhood going to like fast food restaurants, and he said

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Speaker 1: that absolutely was not true. He remembers them going to

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Speaker 1: really nice Hollywood hotspots, not these fast food places. And

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Speaker 1: so he sort of adds to the narrative here, the

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Speaker 1: story here that Meghan's not been exactly authentic, and I

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Speaker 1: think that's what's going to hunt her because I thought

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Speaker 1: the show was okay, but I didn't really buy the whole.

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Speaker 2: You know, I watched the show last night, so I

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Speaker 2: was very curious and listen. I think her brother's kind

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Speaker 2: of pathetic. They seem like her family just seems like

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Speaker 2: the only source of revenue they have is just getting

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Speaker 2: paid to talk about Megan and saying mean things about Megan.

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Speaker 2: I will tell you this. When I met Megan years ago,

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Speaker 2: and when she I was working at the Wendy william

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Speaker 2: Show and she came on to our offices to pitch

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Speaker 2: herself as a guest. She told me a lot about

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Speaker 2: her childhood, and she mentioned that her father was someone

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Speaker 2: who worked on the sets of different TV shows and

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Speaker 2: he was, I think a lighting designer or something. And so, yes,

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Speaker 2: she wasn't exactly like working, you know, living at home

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Speaker 2: with parents who were you know, working very you know,

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Speaker 2: low paying jobs.

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Speaker 1: But it wasn't all of the twist, right. She paints

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Speaker 1: it as a very very cool upberk. It wasn't that.

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Speaker 2: But I also feel like people can change, people's interests

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Speaker 2: can change, and she's it's like, it doesn't mean she

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Speaker 2: can't be, you know, a culinary expert now or have

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Speaker 2: interest in doing those kinds of things. And so I

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Speaker 2: just for him to say this, it's just unnecessary.

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Speaker 1: Shut up. You're right. I'm with you, Heya, shut up.

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Speaker 1: Leave her alone. She's getting beat up enough about it.

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Speaker 1: We don't have to yet. Netflix are very very shady,

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Speaker 1: sketchy about their ratings. When a friend of mine at

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Speaker 1: Netflix told me is if it was a huge it,

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Speaker 1: they would have screamed it from the rooftops, which they haven't.

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Speaker 1: So the fact we don't have numbers is probably not

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Speaker 1: a great sign. What did you think of it? Though, Mark?

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Speaker 1: I thought it was well produced. It looked beautiful. She

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Speaker 1: looked fabulous, and a friend of mine he was Dannie.

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Speaker 1: Donny Meacham said, you know, don't watch it for the cooking,

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Speaker 1: watch it for the clothes. Like it was more of

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Speaker 1: a fashion show than a cooking show.

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Speaker 2: To me, it was, you know, I had it on

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Speaker 2: the background as I was working last night. It's the

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Speaker 2: aesthetic is beautiful, it's it's cool, it's artistic, it's creative.

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Speaker 2: She's wearing all white when she's cooking these shous so

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Speaker 2: it doesn't feel like something I would do when I'm

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Speaker 2: making I wanted to.

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Speaker 1: Scream at my television that cash me a sweater that's cream,

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Speaker 1: a spot of tomato sauce, and that it's ruined. It

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Speaker 1: put an apron on the and I was very nervous

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Speaker 1: about it when I have to cook, and I don't

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Speaker 1: cook very often, but I often cook in my underwear

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Speaker 1: because I don't want to have to buy a new sweater.

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Speaker 1: And I'm very clumsy Mark, and so I'm very careful

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Speaker 1: about I did love it, though, every minute. She was

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Speaker 1: like wonder woman. Every time she left the room, she

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Speaker 1: came back in a different costumes. She like spun around.

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Speaker 1: It was mind blowing. Sometimes in the same segment she

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Speaker 1: had two different night things on she did.

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Speaker 2: I think I would have paid more attention if it

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Speaker 2: was actually shot in her house, Like.

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Speaker 1: That's right. That upset me. It's not her house, I know.

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Speaker 1: So she's sitting on a stranger's stool and a stranger's

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Speaker 1: o them, looking out of a stranger's window, pretending to

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Speaker 1: enjoy the view. And I was like, you don't know

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Speaker 1: that view? You don't know? Yeah, Ogan, listening, I hope

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Speaker 1: you can pull it together. I am rooting for you.

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Speaker 1: I don't know if this TV stuff is her thing. No,

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Speaker 1: I don't know, but.

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Speaker 2: You know what suits is coming back, So I think.

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Speaker 1: That's what she should do that, Megan, if you're listening

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Speaker 1: a lower, lower, low, they would have you back in

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Speaker 1: a minute, get yourself back on that suits right back

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Speaker 1: on top. Did you stay for the for the whole season? Mark?

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Speaker 1: I think there was four episodes, eight episodes. I did

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Speaker 1: get to the end. Did you get to the end?

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Speaker 2: We kept playing on my TV, and then at some

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Speaker 2: point it just was like, are you still watching watching terrible?

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Speaker 1: Okay, quickly before we go to break our girl Gwendeth,

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Speaker 1: who annoys me as much as Megan, but I just

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Speaker 1: can't resist her has a big confession to make. What

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Speaker 1: is she?

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Speaker 2: Oh? Yes, she does so. Gwyneth Paltrow, the Goop guru

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Speaker 2: known for her strict wellness routines, is making a shocking confession,

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Speaker 2: admitting that she drank every night as a devastating Wildfire's

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Speaker 2: rage Los Angeles earlier this year. Now, she was speaking

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Speaker 2: candly on her Goop podcast episode, The Oscar winning actress

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Speaker 2: revealed that she used alcohol as a coping mechanism while

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Speaker 2: discussing menopause. She said, I think I drank every night.

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Speaker 2: I was medicating. Ooh, and we know Rob. She's someone

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Speaker 2: who's promoted clean living and wellless. She shocked listeners but

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Speaker 2: relying on this alcohol. But for me, Gwyneth has always

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Speaker 2: been the person who is do as I say and

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Speaker 2: not as I do.

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Speaker 1: She would say that too. She would absolutely say that

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Speaker 1: do as I say, not as I do. I like her, mark,

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Speaker 1: I know she annoys me. She I always went to

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Speaker 1: a guest on the Rachel Ratio. I had no business

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Speaker 1: being one that show, but I had a monthly segment

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Speaker 1: where we did chat and chew, and if I gave

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Speaker 1: Rachel some good gossip. She fed me, and so it

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Speaker 1: was quite funny. Once I was there in the posh

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Speaker 1: dressing room. In the a list dressing room, next to

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Speaker 1: me was Gwenna. I just I couldn't stop staring at her.

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Speaker 1: Mark gorgeous. She's absolutely gorgeous, almost from a different planet.

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Speaker 1: She looked like an avatar of Gwenneth rather than a

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Speaker 1: real human being. And she was sipping I think it

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Speaker 1: was iced tea that was freshly prepared Rachel. I know

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Speaker 1: she did not show down on the pasta like I

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Speaker 1: or the cheesecake. It was very, very healthy. Oh, Gweneth,

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Speaker 1: have a glass of wine, honey. I can't imagine going

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Speaker 1: through these fires. We have friends in LA. It is devastating.

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Speaker 1: So do what you have to do. But do know

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Speaker 1: the truth. When I drink excessively, now I know it's

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Speaker 1: not because I'm trying to have fun. I know It's

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Speaker 1: because I'm self medicating and I try to now get

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Speaker 1: to the real bottom, the real feeling of what's going

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Speaker 1: on here. Rob, Why do you feel you need to

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Speaker 1: go out and get wasted? What are you running away

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Speaker 1: from with Gwyneth? I think it's very obvious that it

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Speaker 1: was this horrific natural disaster with yourself. If you're drinking

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Speaker 1: too much and your town's not on fire, think about it.

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Speaker 1: What is going on? Okay, We're going to take a

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Speaker 1: quick break and we will be right back. Welcome back

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Speaker 1: to the Naughty but Nice. I'm your host from Shooter

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Speaker 1: with a different Mark Lupo, Hey Loopy, let's get to

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Speaker 1: the poles d. Last year we talked all about Meg

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Speaker 1: and Markle's cooking show getting roasted by the critics. They

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Speaker 1: said some awful things. I'm not gonna say them again,

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Speaker 1: but are they being too harsh. Let's have a look.

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Speaker 1: Seventy percent said yes, she can't win here, Mark. These reviews,

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Speaker 1: So these reviews, I've never things that are so so

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Speaker 1: full of venom. It's almost like people want her to fail.

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Speaker 1: I read some of the British press too. Ooh, I no,

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Speaker 1: wonder she doesn't want to go back there, Mark, They're

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Speaker 1: so many mean.

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Speaker 2: They are mean and making it as a person. At

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Speaker 2: the end of the day, she's a lot of the things,

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Speaker 2: but she has feelings. It's like, all right, let this

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Speaker 2: give her a break.

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Speaker 1: Please give her a break. I've been on the receiving

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Speaker 1: end of some really negative press on projects I've done

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Speaker 1: and I can giggle about it now, but at the

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Speaker 1: time it was really devastating. It really was devastating. Mark

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Speaker 1: I wanted to just get back into bed or maybe

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Speaker 1: hide in my dishwasher with a bottle of vodka. And

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Speaker 1: Gweneth Pelt I literally wanted to hide. So this must

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Speaker 1: be really really rough, too hard, too harsh. I agree. Okay,

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Speaker 1: don't forget to vote on today's Poul will go to

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Speaker 1: back to the page at naughty ninety nice Rob? Will

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Speaker 1: they get back together? Ben Affleck and Jennifer what do

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Speaker 1: you think? Will they get back together? Go to our

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Speaker 1: Facebook page and already go. Zib Hamy shoots a check

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Speaker 1: back Tom Rahill to hear your results and now oh

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Speaker 1: we need this Mark and nicest of the day, Oh

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Speaker 1: so true.

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Speaker 2: Barrymore shades Meghan Markle's name drama casually and calling her

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Speaker 2: Meghan Sussex on air. This is very very I love it.

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Speaker 2: So Drew Barrymore is taking notes from Minnie Killing's recent

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Speaker 2: runner with Meghan Marko and making sure she doesn't make

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Speaker 2: the same mistake. On a preview clip from The Drew

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Speaker 2: Barrymore Show, Very Moore made a subtle but pointed choice.

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Speaker 2: When introducing the Duchess of Sussex, she said that this

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Speaker 2: is the d with Meghan Sussex.

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Speaker 1: That's the name of that's you know. I say, tell

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Speaker 1: me what you want. It's honestly, it's that easy to me.

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Speaker 1: I can call you he She, I can call you there,

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Speaker 1: I can call you Mark, I can call you Loopy.

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Speaker 1: What do you like And if you don't like me

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Speaker 1: calling you lupy, tell me and I'll call you Lupo.

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Speaker 1: And I think that say what you want here, and

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Speaker 1: then people respected. Now she's Meghan Sussex. She's told everybody this.

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Speaker 1: Let's remember she had an edit approval of this show.

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Speaker 1: My sources tell me she did it her production company.

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Speaker 1: If they wanted to edit that out, she could have

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Speaker 1: just cut pause and said to Mindy, let's do that

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Speaker 1: again and call me Meghan's Sussex. But no, she wanted

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Speaker 1: to correct her on camera. And I think the reason

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Speaker 1: she wanted to do that is she really wanted to

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Speaker 1: correct all of us. It is now Megan Sussex. We're

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Speaker 1: going to try really hard to remember that on this show,

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Speaker 1: just in case Megan Hellolo is listening. And now anaught

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Speaker 1: is there, naughty, naughty, naughty Ryan Reynolds is getting blasted

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Speaker 1: as a hypocrite and having p R stunts imediate this

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Speaker 1: ugly legal war. So let me explain. There's lots of

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Speaker 1: stories out there that after Ryan posted a really emotional

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Speaker 1: tribute to a young cancer patient he met through his

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Speaker 1: UK soccer team, now people are saying, oh, we only

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Speaker 1: did that because he's in trouble, he's getting bad prayers,

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Speaker 1: he's trying to use this kid to get some good stuff. No,

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Speaker 1: that's not true. Ryan might be in a lot of

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Speaker 1: legal drama at the minute, and it's an ugly case.

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Speaker 1: There's no doubt about that. And I'm not even sure

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Speaker 1: I'm on Ryan's side in this case. I don't think

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Speaker 1: there's really any good party. But that doesn't mean he's

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Speaker 1: a bad, bad man. He can still support kids with

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Speaker 1: cancer and his wife. You can do two things at once,

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Speaker 1: and so let's give Ryan just a little bit of

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Speaker 1: grace now, and particularly let's give this young boy a

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Speaker 1: lot of grace too. It makes me mad. Let's end

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Speaker 1: with a moment of rob. You're gonna rob, you gonna rub,

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Speaker 1: you go to rub. You were given this mountain to

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Speaker 1: show others that it can be moved. The challenges in

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Speaker 1: your life aren't just obstacles, no Mark, they are assignments.

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Speaker 1: You were given this mountain not to be defeated by it,

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Speaker 1: but to prove to everybody that it can be moved.

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Speaker 1: Your struggles aren't just about you. When you push forward,

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Speaker 1: when you refuse to quit, you become the proof, the

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Speaker 1: proof that anything is possible. Your journey inspires others to

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Speaker 1: climb their own mountains. So keep going, keep showing up.

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Speaker 1: The mountain won't move all at once, but step by step, you,

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Speaker 1: my friends, will move it. Hey, that is it for today.

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Speaker 1: Thank you so much for listening to the Naughdy but

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Speaker 1: Nice with Rob and Mark Looppo Show, Loopy Lou. We're

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Speaker 1: a production of iHeart Radio. We have a big announcement

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Speaker 1: about that next week. I shall tell you. Then, don't

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Speaker 1: forget to subscribe on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or

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Speaker 1: wherever you listen. Leave us a review if you can.

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00:20:28,000 --> 00:20:31,119
Speaker 1: They really do help and remember altogether. Now let's sing along.

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Speaker 1: If you're going to be naughty your gat help me nice.

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Speaker 1: Take here, Woody, it's not even nice with Rah