WEBVTT - Adam Kinzinger 0:00:00.400 --> 0:00:15.200 Hey, everyone, it's Sophia. Welcome to Work in Progress. Welcome 0:00:15.240 --> 0:00:18.840 back to Work in Progress. Friends. We are joined by 0:00:18.880 --> 0:00:22.000 an old friend of the podcast and someone who I 0:00:22.160 --> 0:00:26.640 absolutely love to talk to. Adam Kinsinger is back today. 0:00:27.960 --> 0:00:32.240 We're and we're diving into some of the big questions 0:00:32.320 --> 0:00:34.240 that I think are plaguing many of us in twenty 0:00:34.280 --> 0:00:37.960 twenty six. For him, in particular, what happens when you 0:00:38.080 --> 0:00:42.720 risk everything to defend a principle, to do what's right, 0:00:43.680 --> 0:00:46.199 and no matter how hard you fight, you watch the 0:00:46.240 --> 0:00:50.840 country move in the opposite direction from that rightness, from 0:00:50.960 --> 0:00:54.400 democracy itself. It's something I know our friend Adam thinks 0:00:54.400 --> 0:00:56.920 about every day. We last spoke with him on the 0:00:56.920 --> 0:00:59.480 show in December of twenty twenty three, and we talked 0:00:59.520 --> 0:01:03.320 about the cost of breaking with your own political tribe, 0:01:03.520 --> 0:01:07.720 what it feels like to fight to protect democratic institutions, 0:01:08.200 --> 0:01:11.920 and why his belief that saving democracy would require all 0:01:11.959 --> 0:01:15.119 of us, across party lines, to put our country over 0:01:15.160 --> 0:01:19.679 any political loyalty and in case you've been living under 0:01:19.680 --> 0:01:23.240 a rock, Unfortunately, since then, Donald Trump has returned to 0:01:23.280 --> 0:01:27.000 the presidency. The criminals who were tried and convicted on 0:01:27.160 --> 0:01:31.479 January sixth, who were tried and convicted because of their 0:01:31.480 --> 0:01:34.520 participation in the January sixth assault on the Capitol have 0:01:34.600 --> 0:01:37.160 all been pardoned. Many of them have gone on to 0:01:37.240 --> 0:01:41.800 commit further heinous crimes, and many of us are standing 0:01:42.120 --> 0:01:46.360 in our own country looking around wondering what happened to accountability, 0:01:46.400 --> 0:01:50.000 what happened to truth? What's the future of all this? 0:01:51.480 --> 0:01:54.080 Adam is perhaps one of the best people to talk 0:01:54.120 --> 0:01:56.400 to you about where we go from here because he's 0:01:56.520 --> 0:02:00.520 lived one of the most complicated versions of this America moment. 0:02:01.000 --> 0:02:03.840 He was a Republican, he is a veteran, he's a 0:02:03.840 --> 0:02:07.160 former member of Congress, and he walked away from political 0:02:07.240 --> 0:02:12.280 power rather than stay silent after January sixth. And now, 0:02:12.400 --> 0:02:15.960 as our institutions and our political leaders are really testing 0:02:15.960 --> 0:02:19.880 the boundaries and we are all attempting to create some 0:02:19.919 --> 0:02:23.480 sort of stock gap system for our country between us 0:02:23.480 --> 0:02:27.239 and authoritarianism, Adam might be one of the best people 0:02:27.600 --> 0:02:29.480 for us to talk to about how we do that. 0:02:30.000 --> 0:02:33.000 His experience offers a rare look at the cost of 0:02:33.040 --> 0:02:37.079 standing by your principles, and an initiative that he founded 0:02:37.280 --> 0:02:40.080 is doing some incredible work for all of us who 0:02:40.160 --> 0:02:43.320 believe in this country and want to hold on for 0:02:43.400 --> 0:02:45.840 the best version of what it has been and what 0:02:45.960 --> 0:03:00.200 it can be. Let's dive in with Adam Kinsinger. It 0:03:00.280 --> 0:03:02.200 is so nice to have you back on the show. Pal, 0:03:02.280 --> 0:03:02.760 How are you? 0:03:03.360 --> 0:03:05.359 I'm good? What about you? It's good to see it. 0:03:05.840 --> 0:03:08.760 I'm well, you know, it's that kind of thing. We've 0:03:08.760 --> 0:03:11.800 talked about this before, like I'm so happy in my 0:03:11.960 --> 0:03:14.480 house and then I look at the world and I'm 0:03:14.520 --> 0:03:16.120 just like, come on, america'll be better. 0:03:16.320 --> 0:03:18.560 I know. Yeah, I know. It's funny because it's like 0:03:18.600 --> 0:03:20.880 whenever I talk to folks and you ask that question 0:03:20.960 --> 0:03:23.040 like how you doing, Yeah, you don't know how to 0:03:23.040 --> 0:03:25.440 answer because you don't want to be like I'm great, 0:03:25.760 --> 0:03:28.840 because it's like, hey, somebody just got shot in May 0:03:28.840 --> 0:03:31.240 and a few days ago, are you really great? But 0:03:31.280 --> 0:03:33.639 it's like, I think we have to be good at 0:03:33.680 --> 0:03:36.200 being able to like, hey, I'm personally happy, because if 0:03:36.240 --> 0:03:39.160 we're not personally happy, it's kind of like letting the 0:03:39.200 --> 0:03:40.480 other side win anyway. 0:03:40.840 --> 0:03:44.360 Yes, well, and you know, I'll never forget God. It 0:03:44.400 --> 0:03:47.200 was a long time ago when President Obama was in 0:03:47.280 --> 0:03:52.400 office and a great nonprofit group I was working with 0:03:52.480 --> 0:03:56.080 that was working to protect kids around the world. On 0:03:56.240 --> 0:03:59.640 this particular cause we were really focused on what was 0:03:59.640 --> 0:04:03.000 happening in Uganda with the LRA, and we brought ten 0:04:03.080 --> 0:04:06.040 thousand kids to Washington and we did this huge march 0:04:06.080 --> 0:04:09.120 to the Washington Monument and it was like it was magical. 0:04:10.080 --> 0:04:13.320 And John Prendergast came and spoke and he said, you know, 0:04:14.360 --> 0:04:17.560 you have to celebrate because we were doing this big 0:04:17.640 --> 0:04:20.160 day of protest and activism and then we were throwing 0:04:20.200 --> 0:04:23.320 like a rager of a party because it was college kids, Like, 0:04:23.360 --> 0:04:24.839 you know, you got to give them something fun to 0:04:24.880 --> 0:04:26.679 do at the end of the day. And he said, 0:04:26.680 --> 0:04:31.560 this isn't fluff and this isn't frivolous. You work all day, 0:04:31.640 --> 0:04:34.400 you better rejoice at night. You know, you march in 0:04:34.480 --> 0:04:37.200 defensive people, you better make sure you're still dancing. And 0:04:37.240 --> 0:04:40.720 I've never forgotten that because if we lose the plot 0:04:40.920 --> 0:04:43.920 on how much fun we can have on a random 0:04:43.920 --> 0:04:46.479 Sunday with our kids, or how great it is to 0:04:46.520 --> 0:04:48.359 see our friends even if it's on a zoom for 0:04:48.400 --> 0:04:53.400 an hour, like, then we've lost all the joy we're 0:04:53.400 --> 0:04:55.240 supposed to be fighting for in the first place. 0:04:55.680 --> 0:04:57.920 Yeah, yeah, it's like what's the point then? Otherwise, right, 0:04:57.920 --> 0:05:00.360 if we're all just going to be miserable, then why 0:05:00.400 --> 0:05:03.080 try to make anything better? And yeah, you know it's 0:05:03.400 --> 0:05:06.880 interesting because I get people when Memorial Day comes along, 0:05:07.240 --> 0:05:10.560 you know, everybody's kind of conscious and like happy Memorial 0:05:10.560 --> 0:05:12.919 Oh I can't say happy Memorial Day because it's like, no, 0:05:13.520 --> 0:05:16.000 you know, when people gave their life in this country, 0:05:16.080 --> 0:05:20.160 they gave their life with the expectation and hope that 0:05:20.240 --> 0:05:24.359 your life would be enjoyable. So, you know, recognize the 0:05:24.440 --> 0:05:27.480 sacrifice folks made. But then go have a barbecue, have 0:05:27.520 --> 0:05:31.120 a good time. You'll see sometimes the pro Russian trolls 0:05:31.200 --> 0:05:35.000 on you know, social media, that'll show a picture of people, 0:05:35.080 --> 0:05:37.720 you know, drinking in Ukraine or whatever, and they're like, well, 0:05:37.760 --> 0:05:39.919 it's not really a war going on. It's like, yeah, 0:05:40.040 --> 0:05:43.840 you've got to be able to celebrate life otherwise, Yeah, 0:05:43.880 --> 0:05:47.080 what are you doing, right? Yeah? Fighting for what's it 0:05:47.120 --> 0:05:47.520 all for. 0:05:48.360 --> 0:05:50.920 I'm really curious how it feels for you, because you know, 0:05:50.960 --> 0:05:52.599 when I when I think about the last time we 0:05:52.640 --> 0:05:56.400 had you on the show, it was twenty twenty three. 0:05:57.240 --> 0:05:59.760 You know, we were coming to the end of your 0:06:00.160 --> 0:06:04.640 term in Congress. You have been such a champion for 0:06:05.800 --> 0:06:09.800 the country, for democracy, for what's right for telling the truth. 0:06:11.240 --> 0:06:13.000 I remember way back in the day when you and 0:06:13.040 --> 0:06:14.719 I first met in your office and we stayed in 0:06:14.720 --> 0:06:16.240 touch ever since. People were like, what do you mean 0:06:16.279 --> 0:06:18.160 you're friends with that Republican guy. I was like, that's 0:06:18.480 --> 0:06:20.000 that's my homie, Like he's great. 0:06:20.839 --> 0:06:22.360 And you know, when. 0:06:22.240 --> 0:06:24.919 I talk about what it means to get back to 0:06:25.080 --> 0:06:29.359 a non autocracy, to a sane democracy, I'm like, we 0:06:29.440 --> 0:06:32.640 need some sane We need some sane Republicans. We need 0:06:32.680 --> 0:06:36.440 some sane people everywhere who are willing to actually debate ideas, 0:06:36.839 --> 0:06:40.520 to get down, drill down to better solutions rather than 0:06:40.560 --> 0:06:42.600 just scream at each other from you know, either side 0:06:42.600 --> 0:06:44.799 of the aisle to see who dunks more on Twitter, 0:06:45.680 --> 0:06:50.320 Like if you could talk not to us, you know, 0:06:50.440 --> 0:06:54.360 in twenty twenty three, but even to yourself, like as 0:06:54.360 --> 0:06:59.120 a veteran you knows, as a member of Congress, as 0:06:59.279 --> 0:07:03.200 a person who's on so many service roles, knowing what 0:07:03.320 --> 0:07:06.400 you know now as we're halfway through twenty twenty six, Like, 0:07:06.880 --> 0:07:10.320 how would you talk to Adam in twenty twenty three? 0:07:12.040 --> 0:07:15.120 That's tough one. I would say. Probably the first thing 0:07:15.200 --> 0:07:19.320 I would say to myself is, uh, don't lose hope, 0:07:19.760 --> 0:07:22.880 like because in twenty twenty three, I had no clue, 0:07:23.240 --> 0:07:25.760 none of us did that Donald Trump would get reelected 0:07:26.600 --> 0:07:31.559 that you know, we'd have mass deportations, that we'd turn 0:07:31.600 --> 0:07:34.160 and hate each other just based on political I mean 0:07:34.160 --> 0:07:36.480 it was starting that. But I think the big thing 0:07:36.600 --> 0:07:38.920 is is to not lose hope. When I got out 0:07:38.920 --> 0:07:42.720 of Congress, you know, after all the January sixth stuff 0:07:42.720 --> 0:07:45.720 and the committee, it took me a good year or 0:07:45.760 --> 0:07:48.720 two to come to grips with the emotional toll that 0:07:48.920 --> 0:07:51.800 really took on me. So I often say to people like, 0:07:51.880 --> 0:07:55.800 you know, when you're in combat, nobody has post traumatic stress. 0:07:55.800 --> 0:07:58.760 In combat, all you're doing is like you're focusing on 0:07:59.080 --> 0:08:01.480 You've got your object act, you have to take, etc. 0:08:01.920 --> 0:08:05.320 It's after you come home where that settles. And that's 0:08:05.440 --> 0:08:08.240 that's what happened with me. And I think the struggle 0:08:08.320 --> 0:08:10.280 that I have had and I still continue to have, 0:08:10.440 --> 0:08:13.600 is just this. You know, I had a three am today, 0:08:13.880 --> 0:08:16.720 doom wake up. You know, I wake up at three 0:08:16.760 --> 0:08:19.600 am and it's like boom, things are pounding around in 0:08:19.640 --> 0:08:23.720 your head. But it's that idea of you know, look, 0:08:23.800 --> 0:08:27.760 I really believe the American story is going to initial 0:08:28.080 --> 0:08:30.680 to reflect that this was a low point, but we 0:08:30.800 --> 0:08:34.520 came back in a huge way. And that's what that 0:08:34.679 --> 0:08:38.360 maintaining hope is is like, look, yeah, it feels like 0:08:39.040 --> 0:08:41.720 forever still in front of us that we have this 0:08:41.880 --> 0:08:45.760 president or this division's happening. But when you look in hindsight, 0:08:45.920 --> 0:08:47.800 you know, look at your life ten years ago, it 0:08:47.800 --> 0:08:51.720 feels like it was yesterday in hindsight. You know, being 0:08:51.760 --> 0:08:54.240 able to write this story is what matters. And I 0:08:54.280 --> 0:08:58.640 tell this too, Sophia to like friends that say, you know, 0:08:58.720 --> 0:09:01.480 what can I do? More? Can I fight? And I'm like, 0:09:01.520 --> 0:09:04.840 the best thing we can do is to not get 0:09:04.880 --> 0:09:08.079 discouraged and not give up. Right, That's the best thing 0:09:08.160 --> 0:09:11.079 we can do, because all know people that have kind 0:09:11.120 --> 0:09:13.559 of written off the country and moved on, and that's 0:09:13.960 --> 0:09:16.240 what we can't have. But yeah, the other thing I'd 0:09:16.240 --> 0:09:17.800 say is the next three years are going to be tough. 0:09:17.840 --> 0:09:19.000 Ihad I'm stink it out. 0:09:19.679 --> 0:09:25.760 Yeah, Well, I think what frightens me is damage at 0:09:25.880 --> 0:09:30.520 scale like this, because you know, people look, people are busy. 0:09:30.679 --> 0:09:33.440 I don't say the following to sound like a judgmental apphole. 0:09:33.520 --> 0:09:35.320 I really don't mean it that way. I just happen 0:09:35.400 --> 0:09:39.160 to be a person like you who pays attention to 0:09:40.280 --> 0:09:43.640 political systems and policy and how these things affect people, 0:09:43.760 --> 0:09:45.760 you know, at a state and a national level. It's 0:09:45.840 --> 0:09:48.959 my passion. Not everybody has time for that, and also 0:09:49.000 --> 0:09:52.000 other people have other passions. But when I think about 0:09:52.440 --> 0:09:57.320 how long progress takes, because you have to build, you know, 0:09:57.400 --> 0:10:00.720 I kind of liken it to building a house. Takes 0:10:00.760 --> 0:10:03.439 a long time to pour a foundation, set it trench 0:10:03.520 --> 0:10:06.200 for plumbing, get the framing of, get the insulation, and 0:10:06.240 --> 0:10:09.280 get the roofing done, get the windows installed. It takes 0:10:09.320 --> 0:10:11.600 ten minutes with a wrecking ball to take a house down. 0:10:12.480 --> 0:10:16.880 And I don't think everyone's quite caught up to the 0:10:16.920 --> 0:10:21.680 wrecking ball that this administration is taking to the whole country, 0:10:22.200 --> 0:10:26.160 to our healthcare, to our school systems, to the ways 0:10:26.200 --> 0:10:31.560 we protect and care about our preschoolers, to our veterans, 0:10:31.600 --> 0:10:35.079 to science like the brain drain, all the scientists who 0:10:35.160 --> 0:10:37.439 left the country. People don't get what that's going to 0:10:37.480 --> 0:10:43.199 do to us yet. And that's the thing that frightens 0:10:43.240 --> 0:10:47.000 me and what gives me hope. On the inverse is 0:10:47.040 --> 0:10:50.600 that all is not lost. Not all the systems have 0:10:50.720 --> 0:10:55.079 been wrecked. I see courts saying no all the time. 0:10:55.240 --> 0:11:00.840 You know, he's losing constantly on things. He tried not 0:11:00.960 --> 0:11:02.920 to pass the housing bill and it became law after 0:11:02.960 --> 0:11:05.160 ten days. Anyway, it's like, all right, petty little bitch, 0:11:05.240 --> 0:11:07.320 like you want to throw a temper tantrum like a 0:11:07.360 --> 0:11:09.560 five year old. Well, the law's the law, and the 0:11:09.640 --> 0:11:12.720 law is done, So there you go. And is it 0:11:12.840 --> 0:11:15.240 unfortunate that a president refused to sign a bill to 0:11:15.280 --> 0:11:18.160 help the American people no matter how they vote. Yes, 0:11:19.320 --> 0:11:22.160 is it to be expected with this guy? 0:11:22.280 --> 0:11:22.800 Yeah? 0:11:23.160 --> 0:11:26.600 But like, the courts are still working, and yes, some 0:11:26.679 --> 0:11:29.520 of them are filled with his cronies that are breaking 0:11:29.520 --> 0:11:32.440 the law, but not all of them. And like that, 0:11:32.440 --> 0:11:35.240 that to me says people are really trying to hold 0:11:35.280 --> 0:11:40.240 the line. So, as a former elected official, do you 0:11:40.480 --> 0:11:44.400 also find hope in the courts or are there other 0:11:44.559 --> 0:11:46.959 arenas that you think are doing the best job standing 0:11:47.080 --> 0:11:47.920 up to this right now? 0:11:48.679 --> 0:11:51.400 Yeah? I mean, look, the court side of things has 0:11:51.520 --> 0:11:54.200 been a bright spot. Now, yeah, that doesn't mean I 0:11:54.240 --> 0:11:57.080 agree with everything the Supreme Court's done right well, but 0:11:57.679 --> 0:12:01.640 on these certain things the court has held and these are, 0:12:01.679 --> 0:12:04.360 by the way, Trump appointees that are doing this. So 0:12:05.000 --> 0:12:08.640 that's a good thing. And I think frankly, without the 0:12:08.679 --> 0:12:11.240 courts having done what they've done, we'd be in a 0:12:11.360 --> 0:12:16.080 much worse situation. I think I liken this moment too, 0:12:16.800 --> 0:12:21.360 and particularly come the election in November, assuming that Democrats 0:12:21.400 --> 0:12:24.400 at least win the House. It's like a freight train. 0:12:24.559 --> 0:12:27.080 Right now, you put the brakes on a freight train, 0:12:27.120 --> 0:12:30.400 and that would be this election in November. Now that's good, 0:12:30.480 --> 0:12:32.800 we put the brakes on. We can see what the 0:12:32.840 --> 0:12:37.680 future is, which is a stopped wrecking train plowing through stuff. 0:12:37.720 --> 0:12:41.000 But the train doesn't stop immediately. There's still going to 0:12:41.040 --> 0:12:43.600 be a few years in front of us, the stuff 0:12:43.600 --> 0:12:46.160 being broken. And before I get to the optimism, the 0:12:46.200 --> 0:12:50.199 pessimism is I worry what this does to our psyche 0:12:50.240 --> 0:12:53.000 like kids that are under the age I say kids, 0:12:53.000 --> 0:12:55.719 but they're grown ups under the age of twenty. They 0:12:55.720 --> 0:12:59.680 don't remember politics without Donald Trump in the mix. They 0:12:59.720 --> 0:13:03.160 don't member yeah, politics with people that used to be 0:13:03.160 --> 0:13:07.120 able to disagree respectfully. And then how do we get 0:13:07.480 --> 0:13:10.000 back to that after And that's I guess a question 0:13:10.080 --> 0:13:13.360 for the future. But the thing I have hope in 0:13:13.840 --> 0:13:19.240 is yes, the courts, Yes, the no Kings rallies. Yes, 0:13:19.640 --> 0:13:23.840 the people showing up in Maine to protest, you know, 0:13:23.960 --> 0:13:27.400 the murder of a it may not have been American, 0:13:27.440 --> 0:13:32.000 but he was legally here. Yeah, that's the thing. So Americans, 0:13:32.120 --> 0:13:36.200 here's the thing. When you live in a real authoritarian country. 0:13:36.920 --> 0:13:39.360 You know, right now, you and I have are called 0:13:39.400 --> 0:13:41.720 one hundred and eighty degree vision. We can look out 0:13:42.240 --> 0:13:44.959 and we can see we care about somebody being shot 0:13:45.000 --> 0:13:48.200 in Maine because it matters to us. We care about 0:13:48.440 --> 0:13:52.120 you know, people having rights. All that matters. When you 0:13:52.200 --> 0:13:55.440 live in an authoritarian country, your vision goes to here, 0:13:55.640 --> 0:13:59.800 it shrinks and it becomes is my family. Okay, am 0:13:59.840 --> 0:14:02.000 I surviving? Do I have a job? And that's it. 0:14:02.360 --> 0:14:06.240 All the other extraneous stuff you don't care about because 0:14:06.320 --> 0:14:08.440 you can't control it and you want to stay out of, 0:14:08.760 --> 0:14:12.480 you know, the bad guy's way. That's not America. Right now. 0:14:12.480 --> 0:14:16.440 We are engaged, we care. We've not acquiesced to this 0:14:16.600 --> 0:14:20.480 idea that it's out of our control. And you know, 0:14:21.040 --> 0:14:23.160 who knows what he could try to do in November, 0:14:23.240 --> 0:14:25.800 but we have an election coming up, and it looks 0:14:25.840 --> 0:14:28.360 like that election is going to be a check. So yeah, 0:14:28.400 --> 0:14:31.600 I guess that's what gives me hope. And you know, 0:14:31.680 --> 0:14:33.560 but I'm not going to sit here and say I'm 0:14:33.960 --> 0:14:36.520 overly hopeful, because that would just be dishonest. 0:14:36.960 --> 0:14:41.040 Well, it's hard to feel it's hard for me to 0:14:41.080 --> 0:14:47.200 feel confident in the things I'm hopeful about when, for example, 0:14:47.480 --> 0:14:51.480 leading into the midterms, he fires the whole election commission, 0:14:52.120 --> 0:14:54.480 and I'm like, hmm, so those of us who said 0:14:54.480 --> 0:14:56.480 he's probably going to try to steal or cancel the election, 0:14:56.640 --> 0:14:59.200 we weren't crazy, just like we weren't crazy that he 0:14:59.240 --> 0:15:02.880 was going to overturn. You know, it's a strange thing 0:15:02.960 --> 0:15:07.280 for the first time because I'm not, you know, nineteen 0:15:07.400 --> 0:15:11.080 or twenty. I do remember, and I think because my 0:15:11.280 --> 0:15:15.440 family immigrated here. You know, my mom's mom came to 0:15:15.520 --> 0:15:19.520 America on a boat. The Ellis Island story is like 0:15:19.680 --> 0:15:22.520 cannon in my family. My dad came here in the 0:15:22.520 --> 0:15:24.960 seventies and he didn't become a citizen until I was 0:15:25.000 --> 0:15:27.680 thirteen years old. So when people say to me, like, oh, 0:15:27.840 --> 0:15:29.240 do it the right way, I'm like, my dad's like 0:15:29.240 --> 0:15:32.240 a middle class white dude from Canada and it took 0:15:32.320 --> 0:15:36.720 him almost twenty years, like at slow yer role, you know, 0:15:37.040 --> 0:15:41.760 and it drives me crazy, and I think about, you know, 0:15:42.120 --> 0:15:46.840 what it means to believe in this country, and it 0:15:46.960 --> 0:15:49.960 is a surreal thing, as you know, a woman in 0:15:50.000 --> 0:15:54.440 my early forties that I do remember. So I know 0:15:55.440 --> 0:15:59.720 that young people are they're the first generation where the 0:16:00.000 --> 0:16:04.600 American political system has taken rights away from us instead 0:16:04.640 --> 0:16:10.440 of continued to expand our rights, to expand our protections, 0:16:10.720 --> 0:16:15.400 to aim for us being the land of the Free, 0:16:15.800 --> 0:16:18.840 the freest country on earth. Like the fact that we 0:16:19.000 --> 0:16:23.400 now are in a battle between democracy and authoritarianism and 0:16:23.480 --> 0:16:28.680 our rights are being taken should be like the you 0:16:28.680 --> 0:16:31.480 know when smoke alarms go off, like in a whole hotel, 0:16:31.680 --> 0:16:35.000 that god awful sound, you know, with the screaming machines 0:16:35.040 --> 0:16:37.160 at the end of the hallway. Like that's how I'm like, 0:16:37.240 --> 0:16:40.600 that's how we should feel right now. And you realize 0:16:40.680 --> 0:16:43.800 that they've just they've moved the overton windows so much 0:16:43.840 --> 0:16:46.440 in the last ten years that people are kind of 0:16:46.440 --> 0:16:49.160 going about this like it's business as usual, and it's 0:16:49.320 --> 0:16:50.240 really not. 0:16:51.720 --> 0:16:54.560 I agree, And this is where because again, I mean, 0:16:54.800 --> 0:16:57.560 this is a crazy thing. It has been ten years, 0:16:57.680 --> 0:16:58.120 and it's. 0:16:58.000 --> 0:16:58.960 Twenty years of this. 0:16:59.600 --> 0:17:03.880 Yeah, you I just yeah, I mean I was watching 0:17:03.920 --> 0:17:05.919 I forget what movie it was, was watching a movie 0:17:06.440 --> 0:17:10.120 and it was like filmed in twenty sixteen, and it's 0:17:10.160 --> 0:17:12.760 just like somehow that that ten year gap like brought home, 0:17:12.800 --> 0:17:15.760 like man, this gid anyway, and we've been like programmed 0:17:15.800 --> 0:17:18.000 in this and I think this is where, you know, 0:17:18.080 --> 0:17:21.919 my message to Democrats, which is, you know what I 0:17:21.960 --> 0:17:24.640 have voted now for the last four years, my message 0:17:24.640 --> 0:17:27.960 to independence, my message to you know, any of the 0:17:28.000 --> 0:17:30.840 few sane Republicans left, although I have struggled to see 0:17:30.880 --> 0:17:33.960 how they could be left, But okay, is like we 0:17:34.080 --> 0:17:37.560 need to return to the idea of it's kind of overused, 0:17:37.560 --> 0:17:40.000 but like first principles, like we're a country, what are 0:17:40.000 --> 0:17:42.280 we actually a country for? So we may not be 0:17:42.320 --> 0:17:45.000 able to point back and say, hey, you remember when 0:17:45.040 --> 0:17:47.200 Reagan and Tip O'Neil used to have a beer, because 0:17:47.320 --> 0:17:49.680 now that's a long time ago, but what we can 0:17:49.720 --> 0:17:52.120 say is, do we want to live in a country 0:17:52.880 --> 0:18:00.199 where everybody's angry, everybody hates each other, everybody's you know, 0:18:00.359 --> 0:18:04.920 worried about somebody else enjoying their life and they're angry, 0:18:05.119 --> 0:18:06.600 or do we want to live in a country where 0:18:06.600 --> 0:18:08.280 we just try to make it as pleasant as we 0:18:08.320 --> 0:18:13.520 can for everybody. Listen, Like politics was invented because cavemen 0:18:13.680 --> 0:18:15.919 got tired of thunking each other on the head with 0:18:16.000 --> 0:18:20.480 big sticks and they're like, you know something, this isn't 0:18:20.480 --> 0:18:23.359 gonna work, and they decided, Okay, let's create these ground 0:18:23.480 --> 0:18:26.919 rules that we can settle our differences and figure out 0:18:26.920 --> 0:18:30.240 how to live together. All all politics is is like, okay, 0:18:30.240 --> 0:18:33.399 how best do we all live together? And now you 0:18:33.440 --> 0:18:37.240 have a party that's in control. That's they're angry about 0:18:37.359 --> 0:18:41.159 transgender having rights, like, okay, how does that affect your 0:18:41.200 --> 0:18:44.800 life at all? They're worried or they're mad because you know, 0:18:45.440 --> 0:18:48.639 gay people can get married. Really, how does that affect 0:18:48.640 --> 0:18:53.119 your life? They're happy because a woman with a atopical pregnancy, 0:18:53.400 --> 0:18:56.280 you know, can't have that taken care of. And I think, 0:18:56.560 --> 0:18:58.439 I guess I say all that to get to the 0:18:58.440 --> 0:19:02.879 point of they have been programmed by Fox News and 0:19:02.920 --> 0:19:06.359 other places to just believe that if somebody else is 0:19:06.400 --> 0:19:09.479 happy that you don't like, you shouldn't be happy and 0:19:09.560 --> 0:19:11.920 you should try to change that at them. And I 0:19:11.960 --> 0:19:13.840 think if we can just return and I think the 0:19:13.920 --> 0:19:16.000 younger generation is going to be good at this. But 0:19:16.680 --> 0:19:19.119 if we can return to, like, let's just try to 0:19:19.160 --> 0:19:22.879 make this as pleasant as we can for everybody. Yeah, 0:19:22.880 --> 0:19:24.920 that's how we go back to winning the fight again. 0:19:24.960 --> 0:19:28.639 I think I really like that. And now a word 0:19:28.680 --> 0:19:41.120 from our wonderful sponsors. You just said something really illuminating. 0:19:42.320 --> 0:19:44.560 You said, for the last four years you've been voting 0:19:44.640 --> 0:19:50.600 down and you were a Republican congressional elected. So many people, 0:19:50.840 --> 0:19:54.239 it seems like, because of the temperature of things, are 0:19:54.280 --> 0:19:57.280 afraid to change their mind because then they think they've 0:19:57.320 --> 0:19:58.399 been owned or something. 0:19:59.000 --> 0:20:00.800 Yep, you just said that. 0:20:00.760 --> 0:20:03.280 So casually, like, Yep, I don't agree with what's going on. 0:20:03.359 --> 0:20:07.000 I changed my vote. Like, that's how simple it should be. 0:20:08.560 --> 0:20:13.119 What do you consider yourself now? Are you kind of 0:20:14.200 --> 0:20:19.560 party agnostic and politically specific? You know what? How do 0:20:19.600 --> 0:20:22.880 you do that? How do you encourage other people to say, like, yeah, 0:20:22.880 --> 0:20:24.760 if you don't like what you're seeing, change your mind. 0:20:25.720 --> 0:20:29.520 Yeah. I mean I still hold the title of former 0:20:29.600 --> 0:20:33.679 Republican because I think that gives me some credibility in 0:20:33.720 --> 0:20:36.879 the audience I'm trying to reach. And for twelve years 0:20:36.920 --> 0:20:40.280 I was an elected Republican. That's not something I run 0:20:40.320 --> 0:20:42.399 away from. But clearly, I'll say this that. You know, 0:20:42.480 --> 0:20:46.119 I was always a moderate Republican the party. I didn't 0:20:46.200 --> 0:20:50.280 leave the party. It left me right, it became something 0:20:50.680 --> 0:20:55.520 that I don't recognize. You know, when you talk about conservatism, 0:20:55.920 --> 0:21:01.280 like conservativeism to its actual roots, this is about less 0:21:01.280 --> 0:21:05.680 government intervention in your life. It's about a budget that's 0:21:05.960 --> 0:21:07.959 balanced as close as you can get to it. It's 0:21:07.960 --> 0:21:10.680 about a social safety net. And what this party has 0:21:10.720 --> 0:21:14.640 become is how mean can you be? How angry can 0:21:14.680 --> 0:21:17.520 you be? And so for me, it became a matter 0:21:17.600 --> 0:21:20.040 of like, okay, look, Sophia, I may have told you 0:21:20.080 --> 0:21:22.200 this before. This is a buddy of mine. I wear 0:21:22.240 --> 0:21:25.520 on my wrist. His name's Andreas O'Keefe and he was 0:21:25.680 --> 0:21:29.560 killed in Iraq in twenty eighteen. And you know, I 0:21:29.600 --> 0:21:32.639 remember thinking this is when I ran for Congress, so 0:21:32.720 --> 0:21:35.840 before he died, so in twenty ten, I just remember thinking, 0:21:35.960 --> 0:21:39.640 if I'm going to take votes to send people to war, 0:21:40.320 --> 0:21:42.880 to train them, to give them the equipment to fight, 0:21:43.480 --> 0:21:47.240 to ask them to be willing to die for this 0:21:47.359 --> 0:21:50.800 country literally the ultimate sacrifice. Yea, If I'm going to 0:21:50.920 --> 0:21:54.399 do that, I have to be willing to give up 0:21:54.520 --> 0:21:58.920 my career for the same cost for the country. Right, 0:21:59.280 --> 0:22:01.879 if I'm on willing to take a vote that's going 0:22:01.960 --> 0:22:05.080 to cost me my job, but I'm going to ask 0:22:05.200 --> 0:22:09.800 somebody to go give their life. That makes me completely unqualified. 0:22:09.800 --> 0:22:13.159 And unfortunately ninety nine percent of the Republican Party is 0:22:13.160 --> 0:22:17.120 that way. And so that from my voting in Congress 0:22:17.200 --> 0:22:22.280 transferred to can I really vote Republican ever again? And 0:22:23.240 --> 0:22:29.320 look when everybody running as a Republican has to swear 0:22:29.400 --> 0:22:33.800 allegiance to a man over the Constitution, and they can't 0:22:33.800 --> 0:22:37.240 think for themselves and think independently. Honestly, I didn't have 0:22:37.400 --> 0:22:41.000 any other choice but to leave the Republican Party, and 0:22:41.000 --> 0:22:44.439 so I would encourage people. And here's the difficulty is 0:22:45.040 --> 0:22:49.040 we've made our political viewpoint kind of our tribe. It's 0:22:49.040 --> 0:22:53.280 our I didn'ty And so when you change or you leave, 0:22:54.000 --> 0:22:58.080 you're not just changing how you vote, you're changing your 0:22:58.080 --> 0:23:02.480 social circle. Right, And I think people fear more than 0:23:02.480 --> 0:23:06.280 they fear death, They fear getting kicked out of their tribe. 0:23:06.320 --> 0:23:08.800 I mean totally, nine out of ten people would step 0:23:08.800 --> 0:23:12.600 in front of a train to save a child, I think, 0:23:13.280 --> 0:23:15.800