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Speaker 1: Hey, everyone, it's Sophia. Welcome to Work in Progress. Welcome

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Speaker 1: back to Work in Progress. Friends. We are joined by

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Speaker 1: an old friend of the podcast and someone who I

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Speaker 1: absolutely love to talk to. Adam Kinsinger is back today.

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Speaker 1: We're and we're diving into some of the big questions

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Speaker 1: that I think are plaguing many of us in twenty

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Speaker 1: twenty six. For him, in particular, what happens when you

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Speaker 1: risk everything to defend a principle, to do what's right,

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Speaker 1: and no matter how hard you fight, you watch the

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Speaker 1: country move in the opposite direction from that rightness, from

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Speaker 1: democracy itself. It's something I know our friend Adam thinks

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Speaker 1: about every day. We last spoke with him on the

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Speaker 1: show in December of twenty twenty three, and we talked

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Speaker 1: about the cost of breaking with your own political tribe,

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Speaker 1: what it feels like to fight to protect democratic institutions,

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Speaker 1: and why his belief that saving democracy would require all

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Speaker 1: of us, across party lines, to put our country over

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Speaker 1: any political loyalty and in case you've been living under

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Speaker 1: a rock, Unfortunately, since then, Donald Trump has returned to

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Speaker 1: the presidency. The criminals who were tried and convicted on

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Speaker 1: January sixth, who were tried and convicted because of their

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Speaker 1: participation in the January sixth assault on the Capitol have

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Speaker 1: all been pardoned. Many of them have gone on to

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Speaker 1: commit further heinous crimes, and many of us are standing

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Speaker 1: in our own country looking around wondering what happened to accountability,

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Speaker 1: what happened to truth? What's the future of all this?

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Speaker 1: Adam is perhaps one of the best people to talk

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Speaker 1: to you about where we go from here because he's

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Speaker 1: lived one of the most complicated versions of this America moment.

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Speaker 1: He was a Republican, he is a veteran, he's a

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Speaker 1: former member of Congress, and he walked away from political

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Speaker 1: power rather than stay silent after January sixth. And now,

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Speaker 1: as our institutions and our political leaders are really testing

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Speaker 1: the boundaries and we are all attempting to create some

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Speaker 1: sort of stock gap system for our country between us

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Speaker 1: and authoritarianism, Adam might be one of the best people

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Speaker 1: for us to talk to about how we do that.

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Speaker 1: His experience offers a rare look at the cost of

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Speaker 1: standing by your principles, and an initiative that he founded

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Speaker 1: is doing some incredible work for all of us who

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Speaker 1: believe in this country and want to hold on for

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Speaker 1: the best version of what it has been and what

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Speaker 1: it can be. Let's dive in with Adam Kinsinger. It

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Speaker 1: is so nice to have you back on the show. Pal,

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Speaker 1: How are you?

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Speaker 2: I'm good? What about you? It's good to see it.

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Speaker 1: I'm well, you know, it's that kind of thing. We've

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Speaker 1: talked about this before, like I'm so happy in my

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Speaker 1: house and then I look at the world and I'm

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Speaker 1: just like, come on, america'll be better.

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Speaker 2: I know. Yeah, I know. It's funny because it's like

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Speaker 2: whenever I talk to folks and you ask that question

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Speaker 2: like how you doing, Yeah, you don't know how to

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Speaker 2: answer because you don't want to be like I'm great,

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Speaker 2: because it's like, hey, somebody just got shot in May

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Speaker 2: and a few days ago, are you really great? But

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Speaker 2: it's like, I think we have to be good at

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Speaker 2: being able to like, hey, I'm personally happy, because if

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Speaker 2: we're not personally happy, it's kind of like letting the

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Speaker 2: other side win anyway.

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Speaker 1: Yes, well, and you know, I'll never forget God. It

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Speaker 1: was a long time ago when President Obama was in

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Speaker 1: office and a great nonprofit group I was working with

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Speaker 1: that was working to protect kids around the world. On

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Speaker 1: this particular cause we were really focused on what was

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Speaker 1: happening in Uganda with the LRA, and we brought ten

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Speaker 1: thousand kids to Washington and we did this huge march

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Speaker 1: to the Washington Monument and it was like it was magical.

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Speaker 1: And John Prendergast came and spoke and he said, you know,

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Speaker 1: you have to celebrate because we were doing this big

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Speaker 1: day of protest and activism and then we were throwing

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Speaker 1: like a rager of a party because it was college kids, Like,

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Speaker 1: you know, you got to give them something fun to

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Speaker 1: do at the end of the day. And he said,

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Speaker 1: this isn't fluff and this isn't frivolous. You work all day,

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Speaker 1: you better rejoice at night. You know, you march in

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Speaker 1: defensive people, you better make sure you're still dancing. And

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Speaker 1: I've never forgotten that because if we lose the plot

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Speaker 1: on how much fun we can have on a random

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Speaker 1: Sunday with our kids, or how great it is to

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Speaker 1: see our friends even if it's on a zoom for

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Speaker 1: an hour, like, then we've lost all the joy we're

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Speaker 1: supposed to be fighting for in the first place.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, it's like what's the point then? Otherwise, right,

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Speaker 2: if we're all just going to be miserable, then why

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Speaker 2: try to make anything better? And yeah, you know it's

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Speaker 2: interesting because I get people when Memorial Day comes along,

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Speaker 2: you know, everybody's kind of conscious and like happy Memorial

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Speaker 2: Oh I can't say happy Memorial Day because it's like, no,

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Speaker 2: you know, when people gave their life in this country,

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Speaker 2: they gave their life with the expectation and hope that

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Speaker 2: your life would be enjoyable. So, you know, recognize the

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Speaker 2: sacrifice folks made. But then go have a barbecue, have

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Speaker 2: a good time. You'll see sometimes the pro Russian trolls

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Speaker 2: on you know, social media, that'll show a picture of people,

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Speaker 2: you know, drinking in Ukraine or whatever, and they're like, well,

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Speaker 2: it's not really a war going on. It's like, yeah,

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Speaker 2: you've got to be able to celebrate life otherwise, Yeah,

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Speaker 2: what are you doing, right? Yeah? Fighting for what's it

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Speaker 2: all for.

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Speaker 1: I'm really curious how it feels for you, because you know,

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Speaker 1: when I when I think about the last time we

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Speaker 1: had you on the show, it was twenty twenty three.

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Speaker 1: You know, we were coming to the end of your

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Speaker 1: term in Congress. You have been such a champion for

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Speaker 1: the country, for democracy, for what's right for telling the truth.

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Speaker 1: I remember way back in the day when you and

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Speaker 1: I first met in your office and we stayed in

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Speaker 1: touch ever since. People were like, what do you mean

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Speaker 1: you're friends with that Republican guy. I was like, that's

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Speaker 1: that's my homie, Like he's great.

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Speaker 2: And you know, when.

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Speaker 1: I talk about what it means to get back to

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Speaker 1: a non autocracy, to a sane democracy, I'm like, we

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Speaker 1: need some sane We need some sane Republicans. We need

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Speaker 1: some sane people everywhere who are willing to actually debate ideas,

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Speaker 1: to get down, drill down to better solutions rather than

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Speaker 1: just scream at each other from you know, either side

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Speaker 1: of the aisle to see who dunks more on Twitter,

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Speaker 1: Like if you could talk not to us, you know,

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Speaker 1: in twenty twenty three, but even to yourself, like as

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Speaker 1: a veteran you knows, as a member of Congress, as

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Speaker 1: a person who's on so many service roles, knowing what

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Speaker 1: you know now as we're halfway through twenty twenty six, Like,

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Speaker 1: how would you talk to Adam in twenty twenty three?

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Speaker 2: That's tough one. I would say. Probably the first thing

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Speaker 2: I would say to myself is, uh, don't lose hope,

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Speaker 2: like because in twenty twenty three, I had no clue,

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Speaker 2: none of us did that Donald Trump would get reelected

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Speaker 2: that you know, we'd have mass deportations, that we'd turn

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Speaker 2: and hate each other just based on political I mean

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Speaker 2: it was starting that. But I think the big thing

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Speaker 2: is is to not lose hope. When I got out

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Speaker 2: of Congress, you know, after all the January sixth stuff

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Speaker 2: and the committee, it took me a good year or

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Speaker 2: two to come to grips with the emotional toll that

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Speaker 2: really took on me. So I often say to people like,

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Speaker 2: you know, when you're in combat, nobody has post traumatic stress.

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Speaker 2: In combat, all you're doing is like you're focusing on

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Speaker 2: You've got your object act, you have to take, etc.

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Speaker 2: It's after you come home where that settles. And that's

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Speaker 2: that's what happened with me. And I think the struggle

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Speaker 2: that I have had and I still continue to have,

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Speaker 2: is just this. You know, I had a three am today,

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Speaker 2: doom wake up. You know, I wake up at three

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Speaker 2: am and it's like boom, things are pounding around in

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Speaker 2: your head. But it's that idea of you know, look,

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Speaker 2: I really believe the American story is going to initial

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Speaker 2: to reflect that this was a low point, but we

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Speaker 2: came back in a huge way. And that's what that

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Speaker 2: maintaining hope is is like, look, yeah, it feels like

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Speaker 2: forever still in front of us that we have this

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Speaker 2: president or this division's happening. But when you look in hindsight,

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Speaker 2: you know, look at your life ten years ago, it

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Speaker 2: feels like it was yesterday in hindsight. You know, being

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Speaker 2: able to write this story is what matters. And I

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Speaker 2: tell this too, Sophia to like friends that say, you know,

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Speaker 2: what can I do? More? Can I fight? And I'm like,

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Speaker 2: the best thing we can do is to not get

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Speaker 2: discouraged and not give up. Right, That's the best thing

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Speaker 2: we can do, because all know people that have kind

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Speaker 2: of written off the country and moved on, and that's

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Speaker 2: what we can't have. But yeah, the other thing I'd

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Speaker 2: say is the next three years are going to be tough.

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Speaker 2: Ihad I'm stink it out.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, Well, I think what frightens me is damage at

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Speaker 1: scale like this, because you know, people look, people are busy.

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Speaker 1: I don't say the following to sound like a judgmental apphole.

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Speaker 1: I really don't mean it that way. I just happen

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Speaker 1: to be a person like you who pays attention to

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Speaker 1: political systems and policy and how these things affect people,

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Speaker 1: you know, at a state and a national level. It's

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Speaker 1: my passion. Not everybody has time for that, and also

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Speaker 1: other people have other passions. But when I think about

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Speaker 1: how long progress takes, because you have to build, you know,

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Speaker 1: I kind of liken it to building a house. Takes

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Speaker 1: a long time to pour a foundation, set it trench

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Speaker 1: for plumbing, get the framing of, get the insulation, and

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Speaker 1: get the roofing done, get the windows installed. It takes

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Speaker 1: ten minutes with a wrecking ball to take a house down.

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Speaker 1: And I don't think everyone's quite caught up to the

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Speaker 1: wrecking ball that this administration is taking to the whole country,

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Speaker 1: to our healthcare, to our school systems, to the ways

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Speaker 1: we protect and care about our preschoolers, to our veterans,

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Speaker 1: to science like the brain drain, all the scientists who

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Speaker 1: left the country. People don't get what that's going to

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Speaker 1: do to us yet. And that's the thing that frightens

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Speaker 1: me and what gives me hope. On the inverse is

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Speaker 1: that all is not lost. Not all the systems have

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Speaker 1: been wrecked. I see courts saying no all the time.

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Speaker 1: You know, he's losing constantly on things. He tried not

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Speaker 1: to pass the housing bill and it became law after

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Speaker 1: ten days. Anyway, it's like, all right, petty little bitch,

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Speaker 1: like you want to throw a temper tantrum like a

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Speaker 1: five year old. Well, the law's the law, and the

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Speaker 1: law is done, So there you go. And is it

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Speaker 1: unfortunate that a president refused to sign a bill to

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Speaker 1: help the American people no matter how they vote. Yes,

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Speaker 1: is it to be expected with this guy?

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Speaker 2: Yeah?

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Speaker 1: But like, the courts are still working, and yes, some

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Speaker 1: of them are filled with his cronies that are breaking

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Speaker 1: the law, but not all of them. And like that,

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Speaker 1: that to me says people are really trying to hold

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Speaker 1: the line. So, as a former elected official, do you

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Speaker 1: also find hope in the courts or are there other

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Speaker 1: arenas that you think are doing the best job standing

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Speaker 1: up to this right now?

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Speaker 2: Yeah? I mean, look, the court side of things has

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Speaker 2: been a bright spot. Now, yeah, that doesn't mean I

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Speaker 2: agree with everything the Supreme Court's done right well, but

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Speaker 2: on these certain things the court has held and these are,

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Speaker 2: by the way, Trump appointees that are doing this. So

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Speaker 2: that's a good thing. And I think frankly, without the

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Speaker 2: courts having done what they've done, we'd be in a

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Speaker 2: much worse situation. I think I liken this moment too,

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Speaker 2: and particularly come the election in November, assuming that Democrats

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Speaker 2: at least win the House. It's like a freight train.

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Speaker 2: Right now, you put the brakes on a freight train,

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Speaker 2: and that would be this election in November. Now that's good,

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Speaker 2: we put the brakes on. We can see what the

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Speaker 2: future is, which is a stopped wrecking train plowing through stuff.

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Speaker 2: But the train doesn't stop immediately. There's still going to

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Speaker 2: be a few years in front of us, the stuff

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Speaker 2: being broken. And before I get to the optimism, the

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Speaker 2: pessimism is I worry what this does to our psyche

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Speaker 2: like kids that are under the age I say kids,

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Speaker 2: but they're grown ups under the age of twenty. They

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Speaker 2: don't remember politics without Donald Trump in the mix. They

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Speaker 2: don't member yeah, politics with people that used to be

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Speaker 2: able to disagree respectfully. And then how do we get

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Speaker 2: back to that after And that's I guess a question

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Speaker 2: for the future. But the thing I have hope in

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Speaker 2: is yes, the courts, Yes, the no Kings rallies. Yes,

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Speaker 2: the people showing up in Maine to protest, you know,

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Speaker 2: the murder of a it may not have been American,

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Speaker 2: but he was legally here. Yeah, that's the thing. So Americans,

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Speaker 2: here's the thing. When you live in a real authoritarian country.

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Speaker 2: You know, right now, you and I have are called

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Speaker 2: one hundred and eighty degree vision. We can look out

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Speaker 2: and we can see we care about somebody being shot

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Speaker 2: in Maine because it matters to us. We care about

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Speaker 2: you know, people having rights. All that matters. When you

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Speaker 2: live in an authoritarian country, your vision goes to here,

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Speaker 2: it shrinks and it becomes is my family. Okay, am

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Speaker 2: I surviving? Do I have a job? And that's it.

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Speaker 2: All the other extraneous stuff you don't care about because

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Speaker 2: you can't control it and you want to stay out of,

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Speaker 2: you know, the bad guy's way. That's not America. Right now.

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Speaker 2: We are engaged, we care. We've not acquiesced to this

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Speaker 2: idea that it's out of our control. And you know,

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Speaker 2: who knows what he could try to do in November,

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Speaker 2: but we have an election coming up, and it looks

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Speaker 2: like that election is going to be a check. So yeah,

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Speaker 2: I guess that's what gives me hope. And you know,

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Speaker 2: but I'm not going to sit here and say I'm

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Speaker 2: overly hopeful, because that would just be dishonest.

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Speaker 1: Well, it's hard to feel it's hard for me to

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Speaker 1: feel confident in the things I'm hopeful about when, for example,

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Speaker 1: leading into the midterms, he fires the whole election commission,

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Speaker 1: and I'm like, hmm, so those of us who said

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Speaker 1: he's probably going to try to steal or cancel the election,

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Speaker 1: we weren't crazy, just like we weren't crazy that he

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Speaker 1: was going to overturn. You know, it's a strange thing

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Speaker 1: for the first time because I'm not, you know, nineteen

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Speaker 1: or twenty. I do remember, and I think because my

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Speaker 1: family immigrated here. You know, my mom's mom came to

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Speaker 1: America on a boat. The Ellis Island story is like

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Speaker 1: cannon in my family. My dad came here in the

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Speaker 1: seventies and he didn't become a citizen until I was

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Speaker 1: thirteen years old. So when people say to me, like, oh,

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Speaker 1: do it the right way, I'm like, my dad's like

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Speaker 1: a middle class white dude from Canada and it took

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Speaker 1: him almost twenty years, like at slow yer role, you know,

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Speaker 1: and it drives me crazy, and I think about, you know,

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Speaker 1: what it means to believe in this country, and it

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Speaker 1: is a surreal thing, as you know, a woman in

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Speaker 1: my early forties that I do remember. So I know

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Speaker 1: that young people are they're the first generation where the

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Speaker 1: American political system has taken rights away from us instead

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Speaker 1: of continued to expand our rights, to expand our protections,

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Speaker 1: to aim for us being the land of the Free,

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Speaker 1: the freest country on earth. Like the fact that we

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Speaker 1: now are in a battle between democracy and authoritarianism and

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Speaker 1: our rights are being taken should be like the you

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Speaker 1: know when smoke alarms go off, like in a whole hotel,

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Speaker 1: that god awful sound, you know, with the screaming machines

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Speaker 1: at the end of the hallway. Like that's how I'm like,

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Speaker 1: that's how we should feel right now. And you realize

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Speaker 1: that they've just they've moved the overton windows so much

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Speaker 1: in the last ten years that people are kind of

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Speaker 1: going about this like it's business as usual, and it's

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Speaker 1: really not.

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Speaker 2: I agree, And this is where because again, I mean,

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Speaker 2: this is a crazy thing. It has been ten years,

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Speaker 2: and it's.

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Speaker 1: Twenty years of this.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, you I just yeah, I mean I was watching

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Speaker 2: I forget what movie it was, was watching a movie

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Speaker 2: and it was like filmed in twenty sixteen, and it's

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Speaker 2: just like somehow that that ten year gap like brought home,

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Speaker 2: like man, this gid anyway, and we've been like programmed

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Speaker 2: in this and I think this is where, you know,

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Speaker 2: my message to Democrats, which is, you know what I

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Speaker 2: have voted now for the last four years, my message

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Speaker 2: to independence, my message to you know, any of the

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Speaker 2: few sane Republicans left, although I have struggled to see

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Speaker 2: how they could be left, But okay, is like we

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Speaker 2: need to return to the idea of it's kind of overused,

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Speaker 2: but like first principles, like we're a country, what are

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Speaker 2: we actually a country for? So we may not be

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Speaker 2: able to point back and say, hey, you remember when

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Speaker 2: Reagan and Tip O'Neil used to have a beer, because

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Speaker 2: now that's a long time ago, but what we can

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Speaker 2: say is, do we want to live in a country

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Speaker 2: where everybody's angry, everybody hates each other, everybody's you know,

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Speaker 2: worried about somebody else enjoying their life and they're angry,

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Speaker 2: or do we want to live in a country where

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Speaker 2: we just try to make it as pleasant as we

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Speaker 2: can for everybody. Listen, Like politics was invented because cavemen

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Speaker 2: got tired of thunking each other on the head with

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Speaker 2: big sticks and they're like, you know something, this isn't

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Speaker 2: gonna work, and they decided, Okay, let's create these ground

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Speaker 2: rules that we can settle our differences and figure out

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Speaker 2: how to live together. All all politics is is like, okay,

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Speaker 2: how best do we all live together? And now you

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Speaker 2: have a party that's in control. That's they're angry about

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Speaker 2: transgender having rights, like, okay, how does that affect your

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Speaker 2: life at all? They're worried or they're mad because you know,

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Speaker 2: gay people can get married. Really, how does that affect

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Speaker 2: your life? They're happy because a woman with a atopical pregnancy,

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Speaker 2: you know, can't have that taken care of. And I think,

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Speaker 2: I guess I say all that to get to the

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Speaker 2: point of they have been programmed by Fox News and

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Speaker 2: other places to just believe that if somebody else is

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Speaker 2: happy that you don't like, you shouldn't be happy and

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Speaker 2: you should try to change that at them. And I

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Speaker 2: think if we can just return and I think the

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Speaker 2: younger generation is going to be good at this. But

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Speaker 2: if we can return to, like, let's just try to

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Speaker 2: make this as pleasant as we can for everybody. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: that's how we go back to winning the fight again.

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Speaker 1: I think I really like that. And now a word

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Speaker 1: from our wonderful sponsors. You just said something really illuminating.

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Speaker 1: You said, for the last four years you've been voting

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Speaker 1: down and you were a Republican congressional elected. So many people,

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Speaker 1: it seems like, because of the temperature of things, are

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Speaker 1: afraid to change their mind because then they think they've

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Speaker 1: been owned or something.

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Speaker 2: Yep, you just said that.

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Speaker 1: So casually, like, Yep, I don't agree with what's going on.

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Speaker 1: I changed my vote. Like, that's how simple it should be.

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Speaker 1: What do you consider yourself now? Are you kind of

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Speaker 1: party agnostic and politically specific? You know what? How do

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Speaker 1: you do that? How do you encourage other people to say, like, yeah,

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Speaker 1: if you don't like what you're seeing, change your mind.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. I mean I still hold the title of former

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Speaker 2: Republican because I think that gives me some credibility in

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Speaker 2: the audience I'm trying to reach. And for twelve years

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Speaker 2: I was an elected Republican. That's not something I run

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Speaker 2: away from. But clearly, I'll say this that. You know,

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Speaker 2: I was always a moderate Republican the party. I didn't

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Speaker 2: leave the party. It left me right, it became something

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Speaker 2: that I don't recognize. You know, when you talk about conservatism,

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Speaker 2: like conservativeism to its actual roots, this is about less

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Speaker 2: government intervention in your life. It's about a budget that's

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Speaker 2: balanced as close as you can get to it. It's

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Speaker 2: about a social safety net. And what this party has

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Speaker 2: become is how mean can you be? How angry can

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Speaker 2: you be? And so for me, it became a matter

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Speaker 2: of like, okay, look, Sophia, I may have told you

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Speaker 2: this before. This is a buddy of mine. I wear

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Speaker 2: on my wrist. His name's Andreas O'Keefe and he was

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Speaker 2: killed in Iraq in twenty eighteen. And you know, I

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Speaker 2: remember thinking this is when I ran for Congress, so

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Speaker 2: before he died, so in twenty ten, I just remember thinking,

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Speaker 2: if I'm going to take votes to send people to war,

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Speaker 2: to train them, to give them the equipment to fight,

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Speaker 2: to ask them to be willing to die for this

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Speaker 2: country literally the ultimate sacrifice. Yea, If I'm going to

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Speaker 2: do that, I have to be willing to give up

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Speaker 2: my career for the same cost for the country. Right,

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Speaker 2: if I'm on willing to take a vote that's going

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Speaker 2: to cost me my job, but I'm going to ask

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Speaker 2: somebody to go give their life. That makes me completely unqualified.

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Speaker 2: And unfortunately ninety nine percent of the Republican Party is

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Speaker 2: that way. And so that from my voting in Congress

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Speaker 2: transferred to can I really vote Republican ever again? And

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Speaker 2: look when everybody running as a Republican has to swear

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Speaker 2: allegiance to a man over the Constitution, and they can't

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Speaker 2: think for themselves and think independently. Honestly, I didn't have

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Speaker 2: any other choice but to leave the Republican Party, and

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Speaker 2: so I would encourage people. And here's the difficulty is

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Speaker 2: we've made our political viewpoint kind of our tribe. It's

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Speaker 2: our I didn'ty And so when you change or you leave,

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Speaker 2: you're not just changing how you vote, you're changing your

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Speaker 2: social circle. Right, And I think people fear more than

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Speaker 2: they fear death, They fear getting kicked out of their tribe.

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Speaker 2: I mean totally, nine out of ten people would step

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Speaker 2: in front of a train to save a child, I think,

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Speaker 2: But I don't think nine out of ten people would

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Speaker 2: do the right thing if it meant they lose their friends,

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Speaker 2: their family and everything else. But I will tell you

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Speaker 2: on the other end of it, you can look at

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Speaker 2: yourself in the mirror, you find new friends, and you

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Speaker 2: just feel better about yourself. It's right.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I think that's a really beautiful way to

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Speaker 1: put it. You know, the fear of what it might

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Speaker 1: cost is so often something we examine on a personal level.

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Speaker 1: But if we started to examine it in a society,

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Speaker 1: you know, in a community, in a culture, frankly, in

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Speaker 1: a matriarchy. You know, there's this idea right like all

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Speaker 1: the men's rights looming tunes or like, oh they want

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Speaker 1: to the feminists want to come, and like they just

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Speaker 1: want to step on our next now. And I'm like,

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Speaker 1: you don't realize what you're giving away because you've had

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Speaker 1: your boot on our necks all this time. Ruth Peterer

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Speaker 1: Ginsburg literally talked about it for her whole life, rip,

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Speaker 1: and it's like, no, guys, in a matriarchy, you centerr

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Speaker 1: the children. The men and the women input equally to

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Speaker 1: support the kids and the next generation. And when you

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Speaker 1: sent her children, the byproduct of that centering is that

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Speaker 1: you also take better care of women. Yes, but men

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Speaker 1: are healthier and clearly this patriarchy on Andrew taate steroids

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Speaker 1: isn't working for you guys, Like it's not me, It's

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Speaker 1: not my social group that's committing suicide at the highest

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Speaker 1: rates in America.

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Speaker 2: It's yours.

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Speaker 1: This is not working for the men, and so for me,

430
00:24:49,320 --> 00:24:52,360
Speaker 1: it's like what I kind of wish we could do

431
00:24:53,359 --> 00:24:58,719
Speaker 1: is consider, Okay, if our whole central tenet, if the

432
00:24:58,720 --> 00:25:00,840
Speaker 1: most important thing to us is what is the world

433
00:25:00,880 --> 00:25:05,199
Speaker 1: we're building for our children and our neighbor's children, like

434
00:25:05,480 --> 00:25:09,879
Speaker 1: all the children are ours, as James Baldwin said, like that,

435
00:25:10,680 --> 00:25:15,240
Speaker 1: then shifts our behavior. Then we're not burning the planet

436
00:25:15,320 --> 00:25:19,200
Speaker 1: down for some eighty year old billionaire's profit. Then we're

437
00:25:19,200 --> 00:25:22,920
Speaker 1: not speaking of conservation. Watching the presidents sign away three

438
00:25:23,040 --> 00:25:27,080
Speaker 1: million acres of public lands in sacred spaces like bears,

439
00:25:27,119 --> 00:25:30,840
Speaker 1: your National Monument, and other places that you will.

440
00:25:30,640 --> 00:25:32,760
Speaker 2: Never get back. You'll never get them back.

441
00:25:32,640 --> 00:25:35,639
Speaker 1: And they're not his to give away their hours. And

442
00:25:35,800 --> 00:25:38,800
Speaker 1: this is something that I actually think our parties need

443
00:25:38,840 --> 00:25:43,760
Speaker 1: to get better at working together on. Is the economic

444
00:25:43,960 --> 00:25:51,080
Speaker 1: messaging with future planning, Because to be clear, continuing to

445
00:25:51,119 --> 00:25:55,240
Speaker 1: burn fossil fuels is stupid and it's an economic waste

446
00:25:55,240 --> 00:25:58,200
Speaker 1: of money to try. Trump wants to turn on coal

447
00:25:58,320 --> 00:26:02,200
Speaker 1: power plants. Again, that's a waste of money, and it's

448
00:26:02,240 --> 00:26:04,560
Speaker 1: going to and it's going to ruin the air for everyone,

449
00:26:04,760 --> 00:26:08,600
Speaker 1: not just Democrats, not just Republicans. You know, to cancel

450
00:26:08,720 --> 00:26:11,680
Speaker 1: out green energy projects is lighting hundreds of millions of

451
00:26:11,720 --> 00:26:15,880
Speaker 1: dollars on fire. The idea that we as citizens pay

452
00:26:16,040 --> 00:26:21,160
Speaker 1: into America with our tax money. Let's talk to let's

453
00:26:21,160 --> 00:26:23,320
Speaker 1: talk to each other like we're investing in something. Because

454
00:26:23,400 --> 00:26:24,800
Speaker 1: let me tell you what. If I invested in a

455
00:26:24,840 --> 00:26:27,040
Speaker 1: company and they took my money and they gave it

456
00:26:27,040 --> 00:26:28,959
Speaker 1: to somebody else and lit it on fire, I wouldn't

457
00:26:29,040 --> 00:26:29,720
Speaker 1: keep investing.

458
00:26:30,280 --> 00:26:30,760
Speaker 2: That's right.

459
00:26:31,000 --> 00:26:34,520
Speaker 1: Our tax dollars are supposed to protect our public lands.

460
00:26:34,720 --> 00:26:37,280
Speaker 1: They're supposed to ensure we have led free pipes to

461
00:26:37,359 --> 00:26:40,280
Speaker 1: drink water out of in our homes. They're supposed to

462
00:26:40,440 --> 00:26:43,480
Speaker 1: ensure that the air is clean. They're supposed to take

463
00:26:43,600 --> 00:26:47,280
Speaker 1: care of us like we're sending. You know, we've spent

464
00:26:47,359 --> 00:26:49,800
Speaker 1: one hundred and twenty nine billion dollars on a war

465
00:26:49,840 --> 00:26:54,560
Speaker 1: with Iran that no one wanted, instead of passing universal

466
00:26:54,600 --> 00:26:57,920
Speaker 1: health care. And that's our money, it's not his money.

467
00:26:57,960 --> 00:27:01,960
Speaker 1: It's not abstract. It is our were money. And in

468
00:27:02,080 --> 00:27:05,040
Speaker 1: that way, like the fact that we don't talk about

469
00:27:05,040 --> 00:27:09,199
Speaker 1: the ROI of our taxes drives me nuts. And I

470
00:27:09,240 --> 00:27:13,640
Speaker 1: think that's something that you know, when I say seeing Republicans,

471
00:27:13,640 --> 00:27:16,959
Speaker 1: it's like we remember the mchain Obama era, right, like

472
00:27:17,160 --> 00:27:19,359
Speaker 1: they'd have a beer together. Not as old as Reagan

473
00:27:19,400 --> 00:27:23,200
Speaker 1: and Tip O'Neill, but like that's the sort of thing

474
00:27:23,240 --> 00:27:24,760
Speaker 1: we need to start to think about, is what do

475
00:27:24,800 --> 00:27:28,720
Speaker 1: you want your money to do for you? That's not socialism,

476
00:27:28,840 --> 00:27:31,520
Speaker 1: that's literally a return on your investment, and that's what

477
00:27:31,560 --> 00:27:32,240
Speaker 1: taxes are for.

478
00:27:33,119 --> 00:27:35,720
Speaker 2: That's right, you know, And it's it's you had mentioned

479
00:27:35,800 --> 00:27:39,439
Speaker 2: kids obviously, which I think is extremely important, and I

480
00:27:39,480 --> 00:27:41,480
Speaker 2: have a four and a half year old now, and

481
00:27:42,560 --> 00:27:45,879
Speaker 2: I remember, in making decisions on the January sixth stuff

482
00:27:45,880 --> 00:27:48,600
Speaker 2: and what I was going to do, I just remember thinking, like, so,

483
00:27:48,720 --> 00:27:51,720
Speaker 2: Kenzinger is a pretty not common last name. I can't

484
00:27:51,760 --> 00:27:54,200
Speaker 2: really hide with that last name. And I'm like, yeah,

485
00:27:54,240 --> 00:27:57,320
Speaker 2: somebody he's going to read in the history books and

486
00:27:57,359 --> 00:28:00,360
Speaker 2: he will see his last name, And how how could

487
00:28:00,359 --> 00:28:02,320
Speaker 2: I ever tell his name's Christian? How could I ever

488
00:28:02,400 --> 00:28:07,200
Speaker 2: talk to Christian about courage? About doing the right thing.

489
00:28:07,240 --> 00:28:10,159
Speaker 2: You know, everything a parent wants to instill in their child.

490
00:28:10,480 --> 00:28:12,240
Speaker 2: How can I do it? If he can open up

491
00:28:12,280 --> 00:28:14,560
Speaker 2: the history book and then say, well, dad, let me

492
00:28:14,600 --> 00:28:17,560
Speaker 2: talk about this time in twenty twenty one with Donald Trump.

493
00:28:17,680 --> 00:28:21,120
Speaker 2: And that is the same for all of us here,

494
00:28:21,520 --> 00:28:24,520
Speaker 2: right when it comes to things like fossil fuel and

495
00:28:24,560 --> 00:28:27,840
Speaker 2: green energy. Do we need fossil fuel now? Yes? Do

496
00:28:27,880 --> 00:28:30,320
Speaker 2: we want to get off of it? We should absolutely

497
00:28:30,359 --> 00:28:33,480
Speaker 2: want to get off of it into renewables, into green

498
00:28:33,880 --> 00:28:36,679
Speaker 2: And so what do you do? You can understand that, Okay,

499
00:28:36,720 --> 00:28:40,760
Speaker 2: there's still an energy need here, but let's invest in

500
00:28:40,800 --> 00:28:44,560
Speaker 2: the future. And even if you don't buy all the

501
00:28:44,640 --> 00:28:48,640
Speaker 2: actual real science of climate change, even if you don't

502
00:28:48,680 --> 00:28:51,880
Speaker 2: buy that, well understand something. So if I'm speaking to

503
00:28:51,920 --> 00:28:55,240
Speaker 2: my fellow, to a conservative Republican, that's like climate change

504
00:28:55,240 --> 00:28:58,160
Speaker 2: isn't real, which is insane to believe that. But whatever

505
00:28:58,760 --> 00:29:04,680
Speaker 2: it's like, China is kicking our backside on green energy future. Yes,

506
00:29:04,840 --> 00:29:08,760
Speaker 2: So outside of the moral implication of it, don't we

507
00:29:08,920 --> 00:29:12,320
Speaker 2: want to be the world leader on whatever that next

508
00:29:12,360 --> 00:29:13,320
Speaker 2: technology is?

509
00:29:13,680 --> 00:29:16,760
Speaker 1: And it's a national security issue too.

510
00:29:17,440 --> 00:29:23,200
Speaker 2: Yes, absolutely, And instead there's this obsession among Trump and

511
00:29:23,240 --> 00:29:27,720
Speaker 2: his accolytes with everything that was in in nineteen fifty

512
00:29:28,040 --> 00:29:31,240
Speaker 2: should be in again, right, everything that was cool, and

513
00:29:31,560 --> 00:29:33,720
Speaker 2: all the guys worked at the coal plants, let's go

514
00:29:33,760 --> 00:29:36,160
Speaker 2: back to that. All the women stayed home, Let's go

515
00:29:36,240 --> 00:29:40,880
Speaker 2: back to that. I mean, it is some memory of

516
00:29:40,920 --> 00:29:45,320
Speaker 2: a country that never actually existed except on leave it

517
00:29:45,360 --> 00:29:45,920
Speaker 2: to Beaver.

518
00:29:46,280 --> 00:29:50,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, or in like Greece. And you want to know

519
00:29:50,240 --> 00:29:52,440
Speaker 1: what my theory is. It's actually kind of grainy. I

520
00:29:52,480 --> 00:29:54,880
Speaker 1: don't know if you saw this, but it was really funny.

521
00:29:54,880 --> 00:29:59,520
Speaker 1: Somebody did a really cheeky compilation for Pride of all

522
00:29:59,800 --> 00:30:04,280
Speaker 1: the like clips of Trump talking about men in the

523
00:30:04,320 --> 00:30:10,680
Speaker 1: most like I mean overtly like a jectifying, you know,

524
00:30:10,760 --> 00:30:14,680
Speaker 1: talking about a golf player's penis and talking about he's

525
00:30:14,720 --> 00:30:17,200
Speaker 1: so big and strong and all these things. And part

526
00:30:17,240 --> 00:30:18,880
Speaker 1: of me was like, do you think he wants to

527
00:30:18,920 --> 00:30:20,880
Speaker 1: go back to the fifties because he wishes he was

528
00:30:20,920 --> 00:30:22,760
Speaker 1: like a greaser, because like, those are the guys he

529
00:30:22,760 --> 00:30:25,160
Speaker 1: had crushes on, like the muscles and the white T

530
00:30:25,280 --> 00:30:28,000
Speaker 1: shirts with the rolled sleeves and the leather jackets up

531
00:30:28,040 --> 00:30:32,680
Speaker 1: with the gel Like I genuinely go like, oh, maybe

532
00:30:32,720 --> 00:30:35,480
Speaker 1: somebody should just put him in an office and play

533
00:30:35,600 --> 00:30:39,480
Speaker 1: Grease on repeat and leave him there so the rest

534
00:30:39,520 --> 00:30:42,200
Speaker 1: of us can try to fix the country. You know,

535
00:30:42,400 --> 00:30:44,600
Speaker 1: let's go a crush. You don't have to be ashamed.

536
00:30:44,600 --> 00:30:47,000
Speaker 1: It's twenty twenty six You're allowed to do whatever you are, sir.

537
00:30:47,640 --> 00:30:51,440
Speaker 2: Don't take your anger at yourself out on us, and listen.

538
00:30:51,480 --> 00:30:54,320
Speaker 2: I mean, that's what it is, though, That's what it is.

539
00:30:54,480 --> 00:30:56,640
Speaker 2: It's what it is. I've got my own stories of Trump.

540
00:30:56,640 --> 00:30:58,840
Speaker 2: It's interesting. The first time I met him in person,

541
00:30:59,360 --> 00:31:02,600
Speaker 2: he had just got elected and I didn't support him

542
00:31:02,600 --> 00:31:05,760
Speaker 2: in twenty sixteen. He knew that he was angry at me.

543
00:31:05,880 --> 00:31:09,080
Speaker 2: So like February of twenty seventeen, I'm invited to the

544
00:31:09,120 --> 00:31:11,680
Speaker 2: White House to talk about I think Syria or something

545
00:31:11,680 --> 00:31:15,479
Speaker 2: because I was pretty hawkish on defense. And so I'm

546
00:31:15,520 --> 00:31:17,840
Speaker 2: sitting down and I expect that he's going to chew

547
00:31:17,880 --> 00:31:19,920
Speaker 2: me out for not supporting him, and I'm like, Okay,

548
00:31:19,920 --> 00:31:22,200
Speaker 2: he's the president. He's going to do it. I walk

549
00:31:22,240 --> 00:31:24,360
Speaker 2: into the Oval office and the first thing he says

550
00:31:24,400 --> 00:31:25,960
Speaker 2: to me, there's probably a group of eight of us,

551
00:31:26,000 --> 00:31:29,840
Speaker 2: and he goes, you're great on television. You look really

552
00:31:29,880 --> 00:31:33,320
Speaker 2: good on television, and well, thank you, mister President. I appreciate. No,

553
00:31:33,800 --> 00:31:37,120
Speaker 2: you're really good on TV. And honest to god, I'm

554
00:31:37,120 --> 00:31:40,960
Speaker 2: not making this up. Fifty percent of his attention was

555
00:31:41,000 --> 00:31:43,920
Speaker 2: focused on me and telling everybody how good I was

556
00:31:43,960 --> 00:31:47,400
Speaker 2: on television. Now, there's a manipulation factor to that. But

557
00:31:48,000 --> 00:31:51,320
Speaker 2: I also heard him talk about, you know, men that

558
00:31:51,360 --> 00:31:53,240
Speaker 2: were injured in the war. You know, we were talking

559
00:31:53,280 --> 00:31:55,960
Speaker 2: about Afghanistan and men that were injured in the war,

560
00:31:55,960 --> 00:31:57,720
Speaker 2: and he kept talking about how all these guys have

561
00:31:57,800 --> 00:32:01,040
Speaker 2: beautiful faces, and their beautiful face has it been you know,

562
00:32:01,160 --> 00:32:05,640
Speaker 2: destroyed by it's it's there's something going on that's you Trump.

563
00:32:05,880 --> 00:32:06,680
Speaker 2: I'll leave it at that.

564
00:32:06,960 --> 00:32:09,240
Speaker 1: Well, maybe that's why Lindsay Graham decided he liked him

565
00:32:09,240 --> 00:32:11,440
Speaker 1: so much after he was honest that he was a trader.

566
00:32:11,480 --> 00:32:15,280
Speaker 2: Who knows, you know, maybe so maybe so.

567
00:32:15,560 --> 00:32:18,720
Speaker 1: What a crazy moment it's been, right, my gods.

568
00:32:18,280 --> 00:32:24,200
Speaker 2: And can you imagine Lindsey Graham, I believe believed that

569
00:32:24,720 --> 00:32:28,440
Speaker 2: when Donald Trump was gone, you know, whenever that is,

570
00:32:28,480 --> 00:32:32,240
Speaker 2: he believed he could write his reputation after that. This

571
00:32:32,360 --> 00:32:36,520
Speaker 2: is a reminder tomorrow is never guaranteed, never guaranteed. To

572
00:32:36,560 --> 00:32:38,840
Speaker 2: make sure you can look in the mirror today because

573
00:32:38,880 --> 00:32:40,520
Speaker 2: there may not be a tomorrow to fix it.

574
00:32:40,640 --> 00:32:42,760
Speaker 1: I think about that a lot, and I think especially,

575
00:32:43,240 --> 00:32:45,400
Speaker 1: you know, for those of us who understand how quickly

576
00:32:45,440 --> 00:32:48,840
Speaker 1: things shift and who do pay attention to policy, how

577
00:32:48,880 --> 00:32:50,720
Speaker 1: it affects people around the world. We all know how

578
00:32:50,720 --> 00:32:53,960
Speaker 1: many people have been killed by the USAID cuts. You know,

579
00:32:54,000 --> 00:32:57,920
Speaker 1: we know how cruel this administration is. Totally You couple

580
00:32:58,000 --> 00:33:01,560
Speaker 1: that with having young kids, and you go, I got

581
00:33:01,560 --> 00:33:03,200
Speaker 1: to do everything I can do to try to fix this.

582
00:33:04,080 --> 00:33:07,720
Speaker 1: Was that your goal, the idea that we can build

583
00:33:07,720 --> 00:33:10,080
Speaker 1: a better tomorrow right now? Was that why you founded

584
00:33:10,120 --> 00:33:13,880
Speaker 1: Country First? I really want you to tell the people

585
00:33:14,480 --> 00:33:17,239
Speaker 1: listening about what it is, how it works, how they

586
00:33:17,280 --> 00:33:20,640
Speaker 1: can get involved, because I'm really amped about this.

587
00:33:21,720 --> 00:33:25,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, look right, kind of right after January

588
00:33:25,880 --> 00:33:29,240
Speaker 2: sixth I started Country First as this idea of, like,

589
00:33:29,320 --> 00:33:31,840
Speaker 2: how do we fix the Republican Party? And it became

590
00:33:32,440 --> 00:33:35,360
Speaker 2: clear to me pretty quickly that that was not the mission.

591
00:33:35,400 --> 00:33:38,240
Speaker 2: The mission was something much bigger, and I had because

592
00:33:38,240 --> 00:33:40,040
Speaker 2: there were a lot of people joining that were left

593
00:33:40,120 --> 00:33:44,600
Speaker 2: right center, and what they wanted was a mindset. It

594
00:33:44,600 --> 00:33:47,880
Speaker 2: doesn't mean we lose our party affiliation, but a mindset

595
00:33:47,960 --> 00:33:51,400
Speaker 2: of like we can be Republicans or Democrats or something else,

596
00:33:51,440 --> 00:33:53,960
Speaker 2: but the first thing we need to do is put

597
00:33:54,000 --> 00:33:58,120
Speaker 2: the country over anything else, because you know, look, I mean,

598
00:33:58,920 --> 00:34:02,480
Speaker 2: let's go back to Lindsay example, the guy was a

599
00:34:02,520 --> 00:34:06,480
Speaker 2: famous politician. After you and I talk about him on

600
00:34:06,520 --> 00:34:09,680
Speaker 2: this episode, not many people are ever gonna mention his

601
00:34:09,760 --> 00:34:14,000
Speaker 2: name again. And I don't say that to be you know, dark,

602
00:34:14,400 --> 00:34:17,960
Speaker 2: but the reality is, when we go away, whatever legacy

603
00:34:18,000 --> 00:34:21,600
Speaker 2: we think relieving only exists in the effects that we

604
00:34:21,760 --> 00:34:24,520
Speaker 2: changed and the people we changed, not in our name,

605
00:34:24,800 --> 00:34:28,560
Speaker 2: not in our fame, not in anything else. And so

606
00:34:28,640 --> 00:34:31,680
Speaker 2: that's what country first is. It's this like reminder to

607
00:34:31,719 --> 00:34:35,840
Speaker 2: people to put the country before anything else, to understand

608
00:34:35,840 --> 00:34:39,239
Speaker 2: that the next generation we have to leave the next

609
00:34:39,280 --> 00:34:42,319
Speaker 2: generation a country better off than we inherited, like every

610
00:34:42,360 --> 00:34:45,040
Speaker 2: generation is done, because we're in thread of being the

611
00:34:45,040 --> 00:34:48,799
Speaker 2: first generation that doesn't do that. And so within that,

612
00:34:48,920 --> 00:34:52,840
Speaker 2: we've got a whole bunch of different programs, including you know,

613
00:34:53,960 --> 00:34:56,520
Speaker 2: reminding the National Guard what their role is. I was

614
00:34:56,520 --> 00:35:00,880
Speaker 2: a National guardsman, you know, going after what I think

615
00:35:00,960 --> 00:35:04,720
Speaker 2: are pretty bad Republican members of Congress in the Senate,

616
00:35:05,040 --> 00:35:08,759
Speaker 2: and then there's other things we're just facilitating conversation. It's

617
00:35:08,760 --> 00:35:11,920
Speaker 2: been amazing. I've loved it. The website is country one

618
00:35:12,120 --> 00:35:15,200
Speaker 2: st dot com and say, yeah, I encourage people to

619
00:35:15,200 --> 00:35:15,880
Speaker 2: go take a look.

620
00:35:16,200 --> 00:35:19,759
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think it's really special. I think it's exactly

621
00:35:20,239 --> 00:35:22,279
Speaker 1: what we were talking about kind of at the top

622
00:35:22,320 --> 00:35:24,840
Speaker 1: of the hour, that we have to be in community

623
00:35:24,880 --> 00:35:25,399
Speaker 1: with each other.

624
00:35:25,920 --> 00:35:26,359
Speaker 2: That's right.

625
00:35:26,600 --> 00:35:29,760
Speaker 1: And I think, you know, the greatest way to kind

626
00:35:29,760 --> 00:35:35,640
Speaker 1: of undo bias or prejudice is to let people get

627
00:35:35,680 --> 00:35:38,400
Speaker 1: to know each other. You meet a person who falls

628
00:35:38,480 --> 00:35:42,600
Speaker 1: under a classification you've been taught to fear, and you

629
00:35:42,680 --> 00:35:45,040
Speaker 1: break bread with them, or you see pictures of their

630
00:35:45,120 --> 00:35:48,200
Speaker 1: kids and you're like, you're pretty great. Yeah, why does

631
00:35:48,200 --> 00:35:50,600
Speaker 1: the news want us to hate each other? And you

632
00:35:50,680 --> 00:35:52,240
Speaker 1: realize it's it's a ruse.

633
00:35:52,960 --> 00:35:55,480
Speaker 2: And let's take like the example of when you and

634
00:35:55,520 --> 00:35:58,400
Speaker 2: I met. I'm sitting in my office. You were meeting

635
00:35:58,440 --> 00:36:01,600
Speaker 2: with somebody across the hall, came out, saw my name

636
00:36:01,640 --> 00:36:04,719
Speaker 2: and said I wanted to go meet him, and we

637
00:36:05,000 --> 00:36:08,120
Speaker 2: you know, we became fast friends. But one of the

638
00:36:08,160 --> 00:36:12,839
Speaker 2: things you realize is like everybody thinks they're the good guy, right,

639
00:36:13,000 --> 00:36:15,680
Speaker 2: even al Kaeda thinks they're the good guy. And so

640
00:36:15,760 --> 00:36:19,759
Speaker 2: the key is not just beating somebody down, but understanding

641
00:36:19,800 --> 00:36:23,480
Speaker 2: where they come from and then showing them your compassion

642
00:36:23,480 --> 00:36:26,680
Speaker 2: and your willingness to listen. But at the same time,

643
00:36:27,120 --> 00:36:31,480
Speaker 2: I will also say, people that are insurrectionists that stand

644
00:36:31,520 --> 00:36:35,000
Speaker 2: against democracy, to me, those are people I don't find

645
00:36:35,080 --> 00:36:39,200
Speaker 2: common ground with because they operate outside of this structure

646
00:36:39,280 --> 00:36:42,440
Speaker 2: that we built for us to explore and enjoy our differences.

647
00:36:42,480 --> 00:36:46,000
Speaker 2: And also, really like I have enjoyed now that I'm

648
00:36:46,120 --> 00:36:49,960
Speaker 2: basically a Democrat after the January sixth stuff, I have

649
00:36:50,080 --> 00:36:55,000
Speaker 2: made so many friendships with people that are Democrats, hardcore Democrats,

650
00:36:55,040 --> 00:36:58,000
Speaker 2: people I never thought I would have anything in common with,

651
00:36:58,080 --> 00:37:00,560
Speaker 2: and you're like, we actually have a lot in It's

652
00:37:00,600 --> 00:37:01,240
Speaker 2: pretty cool.

653
00:37:01,800 --> 00:37:04,680
Speaker 1: It really is cool. And now a word from our

654
00:37:04,719 --> 00:37:07,399
Speaker 1: sponsors that I really enjoy and I think you will too.

655
00:37:14,719 --> 00:37:16,399
Speaker 1: I think you're right. I think you know, when we

656
00:37:16,480 --> 00:37:19,520
Speaker 1: talk for our friends at home, when we talk about building,

657
00:37:21,080 --> 00:37:24,160
Speaker 1: you know, greater buckets of unity with people who might

658
00:37:24,200 --> 00:37:26,920
Speaker 1: have different opinions so we can build a better future.

659
00:37:27,760 --> 00:37:32,760
Speaker 1: We don't mean insurrectionists, we don't mean fascists, we don't

660
00:37:32,800 --> 00:37:35,359
Speaker 1: mean people on the Epstein list. We mean the rest

661
00:37:35,400 --> 00:37:38,280
Speaker 1: of us. You know, there has to be a line.

662
00:37:38,760 --> 00:37:42,520
Speaker 1: And my hope is that we can do our jobs

663
00:37:42,640 --> 00:37:44,360
Speaker 1: and the courts can do their jobs. I mean, so

664
00:37:44,400 --> 00:37:46,759
Speaker 1: many of those people were tried and convicted based on

665
00:37:46,800 --> 00:37:48,920
Speaker 1: evidence and the president pardoned them, and I think it's

666
00:37:48,920 --> 00:37:52,200
Speaker 1: a literal crime against the country. But here we are,

667
00:37:52,239 --> 00:37:57,359
Speaker 1: so we've got to build forward. I'm really curious for you,

668
00:37:57,360 --> 00:38:00,960
Speaker 1: you know, as you look at the landscape, would you

669
00:38:01,000 --> 00:38:01,720
Speaker 1: ever run again?

670
00:38:03,280 --> 00:38:07,200
Speaker 2: It's a great question. You don't have to know yet. No,

671
00:38:07,520 --> 00:38:10,799
Speaker 2: I'll give you the most honest answer, which is when

672
00:38:11,719 --> 00:38:15,400
Speaker 2: when you're in politics, you're always thinking about what the

673
00:38:15,440 --> 00:38:19,279
Speaker 2: next thing is. You're always planning. You always have this thing,

674
00:38:19,360 --> 00:38:22,560
Speaker 2: and I've learned you probably experienced this in your own career.

675
00:38:22,600 --> 00:38:25,319
Speaker 2: Whatever you plan never really comes to fruition, and then

676
00:38:25,760 --> 00:38:29,920
Speaker 2: you end up with these surprise opportunities. I have the

677
00:38:29,960 --> 00:38:34,560
Speaker 2: fire in my belly to get to run again, I

678
00:38:34,640 --> 00:38:39,719
Speaker 2: really do. I also recognize that where do I fit in?

679
00:38:40,239 --> 00:38:42,880
Speaker 2: You know? What is that? And so I guess the

680
00:38:42,880 --> 00:38:45,200
Speaker 2: best answer is, yes, I would love to run again.

681
00:38:45,520 --> 00:38:49,320
Speaker 2: Not for the House. It would be something different, you know, governor, senator,

682
00:38:49,360 --> 00:38:53,200
Speaker 2: even president someday. But I am not trying to force

683
00:38:53,320 --> 00:38:56,719
Speaker 2: that to happen, because sure people can sniff out in

684
00:38:56,840 --> 00:39:01,160
Speaker 2: authenticity too, very very quickly. I want to be authentic.

685
00:39:01,239 --> 00:39:02,839
Speaker 2: I want to be real. I want to be true

686
00:39:02,880 --> 00:39:06,480
Speaker 2: to myself and wherever that fits, yes, I'm open to it.

687
00:39:06,600 --> 00:39:09,959
Speaker 2: Until then, I'm going to continue to engage every day.

688
00:39:10,280 --> 00:39:12,440
Speaker 2: I've got a substack I encourage people to look at.

689
00:39:12,560 --> 00:39:15,480
Speaker 2: Just go to Adamkinsinger dot com. I'm going to engage

690
00:39:15,480 --> 00:39:17,560
Speaker 2: and try to influence the conversation where I can.

691
00:39:17,960 --> 00:39:20,040
Speaker 1: I love that well, count me in, you know, I'm

692
00:39:20,080 --> 00:39:24,239
Speaker 1: always I'm always team aka ye. Last time you were

693
00:39:24,280 --> 00:39:26,360
Speaker 1: on the show, we talked about your work in progress.

694
00:39:26,400 --> 00:39:29,960
Speaker 1: You said yours was that you had to learn that

695
00:39:30,040 --> 00:39:32,960
Speaker 1: you can't save the world alone. And that's like a

696
00:39:33,000 --> 00:39:38,360
Speaker 1: big aha thing to accept. I'm curious, three years later,

697
00:39:39,200 --> 00:39:40,959
Speaker 1: what feels like you're working progress now?

698
00:39:41,520 --> 00:39:46,080
Speaker 2: I would say, now, my work in progress is it's

699
00:39:46,080 --> 00:39:48,239
Speaker 2: going to be a little more personal. So how to

700
00:39:49,480 --> 00:39:53,280
Speaker 2: how to be a better father and a better husband

701
00:39:55,200 --> 00:39:59,279
Speaker 2: while staying engaged in this. One of the things just

702
00:39:59,320 --> 00:40:02,799
Speaker 2: being very that I realized after I got out is

703
00:40:04,120 --> 00:40:08,080
Speaker 2: the impact that the January sixth time frame had with

704
00:40:08,160 --> 00:40:12,680
Speaker 2: my wife that I didn't recognize. I mean she talks about,

705
00:40:12,800 --> 00:40:15,880
Speaker 2: you know, I'm in my office literally with my gun out,

706
00:40:16,520 --> 00:40:19,760
Speaker 2: thinking that I may have to defend myself. On January sixth,

707
00:40:20,160 --> 00:40:23,360
Speaker 2: she's at home thinking realizing what it means to be

708
00:40:23,400 --> 00:40:27,120
Speaker 2: the wife of a politician and worried that I'm going

709
00:40:27,160 --> 00:40:30,800
Speaker 2: to be killed, and I to my shame, I'll say

710
00:40:31,280 --> 00:40:34,200
Speaker 2: it took me a few years to recognize that the

711
00:40:34,239 --> 00:40:37,920
Speaker 2: impact of that that had on her was huge. And

712
00:40:38,000 --> 00:40:41,680
Speaker 2: so my work in progress is more personal. It's just

713
00:40:42,120 --> 00:40:45,720
Speaker 2: how to be a loving, understanding, good husband and father

714
00:40:47,040 --> 00:40:50,600
Speaker 2: and also maybe translate that into my fight here. I

715
00:40:50,640 --> 00:40:53,120
Speaker 2: can't save the world alone, that is true, but I

716
00:40:53,160 --> 00:40:54,560
Speaker 2: can save the world with people like you.

717
00:40:55,239 --> 00:40:58,839
Speaker 1: I love that. Yeah, there's something I think about when

718
00:40:58,880 --> 00:41:01,080
Speaker 1: you hit the point in your life before you realize

719
00:41:02,560 --> 00:41:07,680
Speaker 1: you bring your personal more closely into your professional way

720
00:41:07,680 --> 00:41:12,640
Speaker 1: of being, is actually like a healing in itself. You know,

721
00:41:12,680 --> 00:41:14,440
Speaker 1: there's something that that does for you.

722
00:41:15,440 --> 00:41:18,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, and you start doing the I think it hits

723
00:41:18,360 --> 00:41:20,600
Speaker 2: in your forties, at least it did for me, where

724
00:41:20,640 --> 00:41:23,560
Speaker 2: you start doing the backwards and forward math thing, you

725
00:41:23,600 --> 00:41:26,400
Speaker 2: know who, Like when I was eighteen years old, that

726
00:41:26,640 --> 00:41:30,239
Speaker 2: was thirty shit that I hate to say it for

727
00:41:30,360 --> 00:41:34,239
Speaker 2: me thirty years ago. So yeah, like in thirty years,

728
00:41:34,320 --> 00:41:37,160
Speaker 2: I'll be seventy eight, and you start to realize time

729
00:41:37,200 --> 00:41:40,520
Speaker 2: goes by fast. I've got a limited amount of time.

730
00:41:40,600 --> 00:41:44,600
Speaker 2: That's my most precious commodity. And yeah, and how do

731
00:41:44,640 --> 00:41:47,000
Speaker 2: I how do I invest that in the people I love?

732
00:41:49,040 --> 00:41:51,760
Speaker 1: Well, that's beautiful. Thanks for coming on the show today.

733
00:41:51,800 --> 00:41:55,120
Speaker 2: We always love to have you anytime, you bet. Thanks