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Speaker 1: Hey to your Therapist listeners. It's Lori and Guy and

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Speaker 1: we have a quick update.

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Speaker 2: Many of you have told us that you get something

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Speaker 2: new out of each episode when you listen to it

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Speaker 2: again the second or third time. In fact, when we

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Speaker 2: listen to the episodes again, we also get takeaways we

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Speaker 2: didn't remember.

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Speaker 1: We're They're therapy is like that too. There are so

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Speaker 1: many learning moments in a session, and it's difficult to

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Speaker 1: absorb them all at once. So while we're not taping

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Speaker 1: new episodes right now, we are offering you our most

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Speaker 1: popular sessions as encores so that you can continue to

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Speaker 1: gain value from them.

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Speaker 2: We love doing the Therapists episodes, but we're each busy

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Speaker 2: with new and exciting projects that we hope you will love.

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Speaker 3: Just as much.

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Speaker 1: I have a new advice podcast called Since You Asked,

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Speaker 1: which you can get wherever you listen to podcasts.

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Speaker 2: And I have a new book coming out. It's called

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Speaker 2: Mind Overgrind, How to Break Free when work Hijacks your life,

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Speaker 2: and it will be published by Simon and Schuster. You

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Speaker 2: can find out more about it on my website.

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Speaker 1: You can learn more about these on our socials. And meanwhile,

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Speaker 1: we hope you find these Dear Therapist sessions as valuable

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Speaker 1: as we have making them for you. Hey, fellow travelers,

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Speaker 1: I'm Lari Gottlieb. I'm the author of Maybe You Should

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Speaker 1: Talk to Someone, and I write the Dear Therapists advice

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Speaker 1: column for The Atlantic.

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Speaker 3: And I'm Guy Wench. I'm the author of Emotional First Aid,

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Speaker 3: and I write the Dear Guy advice column for Ted.

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Speaker 3: And this is Dear Therapists.

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Speaker 1: Each week we invite you into a session so you

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Speaker 1: can learn more about yourself by hearing how we help

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Speaker 1: other people come to understand themselves better and make changes

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Speaker 1: in their lives.

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Speaker 3: So sit back and welcome to today's session. This week,

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Speaker 3: a young man seeks our counsel on whether to try

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Speaker 3: to get his girlfriend.

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Speaker 4: Back absolutely lower, and then just kills me because I

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Speaker 4: know the main problem, you know, was the drinking. And

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Speaker 4: you know I told I don't have to have a drink.

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Speaker 1: Against It's a quick note. Dear Therapist is for informational

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Speaker 1: purposes only. It does not constitute medical or psychological advice

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Speaker 1: and is not a substitute for professional healthcare advice, diagnosis,

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Speaker 1: or treatment. Always seek the advice of your physician, mental

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Speaker 1: health professional, or other qualified health provider with any questions

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Speaker 1: you may have regarding a medical or psychological condition. By

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Speaker 1: submitting a letter, you are agreeing to let iHeartMedia use

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Speaker 1: it in part or in full, and we may edit

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Speaker 1: it for length and clarity. In the sessions you'll hear.

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Speaker 1: All names have been changed for the privacy of our

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Speaker 1: fellow travelers.

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Speaker 3: So, Hi Guy, Hey Lourie, what do we have today?

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Speaker 1: Today? We have a letter about a breakup and some regret,

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Speaker 1: and it goes like this, Dear therapists, My girlfriend and

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Speaker 1: I recently split up after a one year relationship. This

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Speaker 1: is my second long term relationship, the other lasted about

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Speaker 1: three years. Yet I find myself way more upset about

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Speaker 1: the breakup this time around. The worst part of it

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Speaker 1: all is that we are both still in love with

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Speaker 1: each other, but because of a few of my actions,

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Speaker 1: we have split up. Now we have been broken up

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Speaker 1: for close to three weeks, and I am wondering whether

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Speaker 1: or not you think I should just shut the door

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Speaker 1: on a comeback. I understand that what I did was wrong,

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Speaker 1: like saying rude things to her when I would be drunk,

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Speaker 1: and that caused her sadness. But I also know that

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Speaker 1: she still loves me and is also extremely broken up

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Speaker 1: about this. She says she needs time to heal, but

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Speaker 1: I also don't want her moving on and finding someone else.

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Speaker 1: She tells me that I'm her first real love. So

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Speaker 1: I just have this feeling of hope for a reconciliation

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Speaker 1: that I'm holding on to. A lot of issues from

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Speaker 1: my first relationship have carried over to this one, and

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Speaker 1: it's been unfair to her, and I understand that. But

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Speaker 1: a lot of the issues are things that I just

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Speaker 1: came to terms with and I'm starting to understand now.

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Speaker 1: Thank you all for your help.

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Speaker 3: Mark Well, this issue of couples who break up and

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Speaker 3: want to consider trying again is really common and we

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Speaker 3: see that a lot in our therapy offices. And the

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Speaker 3: principle that's the most important is if you're going to

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Speaker 3: do it again, A both people have to want to,

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Speaker 3: but B you have to figure out what wasn't working

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Speaker 3: and how A you're going to do it differently. Just

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Speaker 3: one thing to do things again, but not really understanding

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Speaker 3: what needs to be different and what to change almost

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Speaker 3: inevitably leads to the same problems happening and the breakup

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Speaker 3: just happening again.

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Speaker 1: Well, that's right, And he said he's just coming to

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Speaker 1: terms with those things now to one thing to have

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Speaker 1: the insight, it's another thing to be able to act

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Speaker 1: on it. So we always like to say that insight

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Speaker 1: is the booby prize of therapy. That you can have

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Speaker 1: all the insight in the world, but if you don't

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Speaker 1: make changes out in the world, the insight is useless.

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Speaker 1: So is he ready to use the insight that he

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Speaker 1: has and put it into action in the relationship? And

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Speaker 1: what is she willing to do? How much time is

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Speaker 1: she willing to invest in this as he tries to

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Speaker 1: come to terms with some things from the past, right?

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Speaker 3: And are they able to work together to navigate these waters,

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Speaker 3: because they're going to have to communicate and be very

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Speaker 3: clear about how to avoid the icebergs that are already

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Speaker 3: felled them once. So let's go talk to him and

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Speaker 3: see what this is about.

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Speaker 1: Let's do that.

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Speaker 3: You're listening to Deotherapists from iHeartRadio. We'll be back after

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Speaker 3: a quick break. I'm Lori Gottlieb and I'm Guy Wench

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Speaker 3: and this is Deo Therapist. So Mark, welcome to the show.

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Speaker 4: Thank you, Thank you guys for having me and taking

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Speaker 4: time You're very welcome, Mark.

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Speaker 3: Mark, tell us a little bit about the relationship, how

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Speaker 3: you met, how old you were, how it went, and

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Speaker 3: where things are today.

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Speaker 4: Sure, so we met summer of twenty nineteen. I was

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Speaker 4: twenty four, she was twenty two.

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Speaker 5: So to your.

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Speaker 4: Difference, she knew who I was because we went to

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Speaker 4: the same school. One of our mutual friends like introduced

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Speaker 4: us right off the bat, like we had a connection.

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Speaker 4: It's like we hung out towards the end of that summer,

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Speaker 4: and then she was going back to school. I was

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Speaker 4: coming off like a longer, like three year relationship. I

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Speaker 4: was probably six months removed from this relationship at this point.

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Speaker 4: I necessarily wasn't ready for another relationship. So she goes

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Speaker 4: back to school. We still communicate. She starts like leaving

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Speaker 4: school during weekends like to come see me. Clearly, it's like,

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Speaker 4: what's progressing more than either of us have pretty much expected.

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Speaker 4: So then we fast forward to the next summer, and

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Speaker 4: we both had rental houses for the summer near each other.

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Speaker 4: We're spending every weekend together. I would just stay down

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Speaker 4: there and make a long commute in the morning. I

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Speaker 4: would drive like an hour to work, an hour back.

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Speaker 4: You know, so they almost like living together at this point.

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Speaker 4: We were together all summer. Not official of course, that

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Speaker 4: came at the end of the summer, when like we

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Speaker 4: were like, yeah, all right, we could uh take this

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Speaker 4: to the next step.

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Speaker 1: You know when you say not official, you had been

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Speaker 1: dating for a year at that point and it was

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Speaker 1: still not official.

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Speaker 4: No, No, we were, I would say, exclusive to each other,

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Speaker 4: you know, talking every day, so you know everything about

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Speaker 4: the title. I feel like the title at this point

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Speaker 4: was just like something in my head, like I had

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Speaker 4: gone through a really long relationship that didn't pan out,

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Speaker 4: and it was like a super stressful situation for me.

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Speaker 4: So I just felt like with the title came all

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Speaker 4: these added expectations and all this external pressure that I

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Speaker 4: wasn't ready for.

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Speaker 1: Sounds like you were dating for about a year in

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Speaker 1: this way where it wasn't really defined what actually made

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Speaker 1: it official between the two of you, where it was

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Speaker 1: directly communicated between the two of you that it was official.

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Speaker 4: What changed that was just like simply me like asking

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Speaker 4: her to be my girlfriend. Our day to day nothing

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Speaker 4: really changed, you know. We talked all day every day,

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Speaker 4: We hung out every weekend. After the summer ended, our

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Speaker 4: leases ended, for that for the summer, and then she

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Speaker 4: was moving out because she had graduated school at this point.

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Speaker 4: So basically throughout that whole process, I was, you know,

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Speaker 4: there helping her every step of the way, like I

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Speaker 4: was building all the furniture for her house. At this point,

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Speaker 4: our relationship was gone, you know, I'd say, very well.

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Speaker 4: So fast forward a few weeks after that. This is

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Speaker 4: where like our issues like arise. One night when we

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Speaker 4: were out drinking, I got a little too drunk and

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Speaker 4: then I said some like mean things to her, Like

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Speaker 4: I had gotten really drunk and for some reason I

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Speaker 4: had called her slot.

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Speaker 5: These weren't like.

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Speaker 4: Thoughts I have of her, like I think the most

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Speaker 4: of her. I don't know where that came from at

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Speaker 4: this time, and obviously she was super upsett me, like

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Speaker 4: how could you say that to me?

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Speaker 5: Like you're dating me?

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Speaker 4: Like why would you say that? And like I didn't

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Speaker 4: have any you know, explanation. I had no idea where

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Speaker 4: that came from.

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Speaker 1: Had that ever happened before where you drink too much

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Speaker 1: and said things that you regretted later and that were

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Speaker 1: kind of inexplicable to you.

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Speaker 4: Back in school, I mean, it would happen, but like

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Speaker 4: I never had said that to my ex girlfriend.

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Speaker 1: When it happened back in school, what did you say?

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Speaker 4: And to whom it would just be like my friends,

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Speaker 4: Like we would just like get mad and get an argument,

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Speaker 4: just like it was never never anything to this point,

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Speaker 4: you know, never anything like a like a personal attack

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Speaker 4: like that. It was never something like I had to

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Speaker 4: wake up the next day and like I was like, wow,

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Speaker 4: I can't.

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Speaker 1: Believe, like I said that, did it happen often or

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Speaker 1: how often would you say it would happen?

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Speaker 5: Not often? Not often at all?

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Speaker 1: And with her, was this the first time that this

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Speaker 1: had happened.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, this was the first time this happened.

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Speaker 4: And then I guess like two or three weeks after that,

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Speaker 4: it happened again, and it got to the point it

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Speaker 4: happened like four times, five times, and obviously like she

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Speaker 4: was fed up this whole time, like she was trying

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Speaker 4: to get me to go to therapy because we realized,

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Speaker 4: like my first relationship there was like a lot of

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Speaker 4: it just like wasn't a healthy relationship at all.

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Speaker 5: And that was my first ever relationship.

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Speaker 1: After it happened the first time, how did the two

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Speaker 1: you talk about it and move past that?

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Speaker 4: She was obviously very upset. I apologize to her. I

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Speaker 4: told her, like, it won't happen again. Obviously that didn't happen.

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Speaker 1: So after it happened the second time, what happened between

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Speaker 1: the two of you. I want to hear what happened

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Speaker 1: each time and how the two of you dealt with it.

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Speaker 4: The second time, she got super upset. I apologize. I said, like,

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Speaker 4: I know, I said it would have happened. I don't

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Speaker 4: know why it happened. And then after the second time

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Speaker 4: is when I started going to therapy, actually because I realized.

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Speaker 4: I told her, I was like, listen, I'm gonna go

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Speaker 4: with therapy. I'm going to try to like get to

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Speaker 4: the rud of this problem. Like, clearly there's something you

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Speaker 4: know going on.

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Speaker 3: Did you consider motivating the drinking since it was directly

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Speaker 3: tied to of a drinking.

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Speaker 5: Yes, and it didn't work.

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Speaker 4: But now ever, since you know, we broke up for

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Speaker 4: like this last you know, it's close to two months now,

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Speaker 4: the drinking has been very limited. I've you know, keeping

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Speaker 4: control of myself. I'm you know, doing things that my

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Speaker 4: therapist just told me to do. And I've let her

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Speaker 4: know too, and you know, she does say, she's proud

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Speaker 4: of me, like or the progress I've made.

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Speaker 1: Was the drinking something that had been problematic for you

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Speaker 1: before this?

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Speaker 4: I'd say I would definitely always have, you know, been

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Speaker 4: a drinker. Just the environment I'm in, people I go

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Speaker 4: out whatever, like, you know, we're very like social group,

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Speaker 4: so I definitely, like I'm exposed to it a lot.

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Speaker 1: Did you feel like when you were drinking, that you

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Speaker 1: were drinking to a point that you would not be

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Speaker 1: in control of yourself, that that was a regular thing.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, honestly, as bad as it sound like, it kind

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Speaker 4: of was to the point where it was like a

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Speaker 4: regular thing. It's not like I would wake up and

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Speaker 4: like want a drink, you know, it would just be

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Speaker 4: a Friday Saturday thing.

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Speaker 5: We go out all together.

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Speaker 4: The thing that changed was in the summer, we me

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Speaker 4: and her went out together all the time, and like

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Speaker 4: I did drink then too, and she drinks as well.

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Speaker 4: But it was never an issue. So that's like, why

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Speaker 4: been so confused about the situation because one day it happened,

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Speaker 4: and it's like it opened the gates and then led

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Speaker 4: it happening multiple times.

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Speaker 3: Was she able to tell you what because you don't

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Speaker 3: have the recollection of what happened. Was she able to

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Speaker 3: describe to you what happened that led you to kotoroslat

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Speaker 3: In each of those cases.

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Speaker 4: She would say like out of nowhere, like and I

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Speaker 4: know one day it happened and my best friends were there,

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Speaker 4: and so that was the first time it happened where

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Speaker 4: other people like heard it. It was extremely embarrassing, Like

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Speaker 4: it was just like really sad, you know, because then

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Speaker 4: I had my best friend for like fifteen years. At

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Speaker 4: this point, it's just been like I've never like seen

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Speaker 4: you like say or do anything like that, Like that's

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Speaker 4: so completely out of character for you.

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Speaker 1: How long have you been seeing a therapist at this.

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Speaker 5: Point about two months?

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Speaker 1: And what has that been like for you in terms

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Speaker 1: of understanding more about what might be going on.

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Speaker 4: Honestly, I love it. It's just like good to talk to someone.

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Speaker 4: And you know, therapy has never been something like I

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Speaker 4: would like thought I would do myself, you know, I

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Speaker 4: always thought I had everything pretty under control, but obviously that's.

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Speaker 5: Not the case.

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Speaker 4: It's definitely been good. It's a good outlet. I've been

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Speaker 4: like journaling a lot, listening to the podcast that I've

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Speaker 4: listened to all the episodes. You know, it's definitely been

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Speaker 4: super helpful. I've realized a lot of the issues have

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Speaker 4: stemmed from that first relationship I was in just because

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Speaker 4: it was my first relationship, and like I was, I

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Speaker 4: guess that's how I viewed how a relationship like that's

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Speaker 4: like normal things, you know, when in reality it wasn't

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Speaker 4: necessarily normal.

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Speaker 1: Can you tell us a little bit about that relationship?

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Speaker 5: Sure, So it was my second year of college. I

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Speaker 5: met this girl.

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Speaker 4: I met her in class, and we were together on

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Speaker 4: and off until a year after graduation pretty much, so

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Speaker 4: like three years. It was a pretty crazy relationship. Like,

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Speaker 4: for example, we started dating and literally the weekend we

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Speaker 4: started dating, one of my friends was out with her

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Speaker 4: and sent me pictures of her with like another guy already.

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Speaker 4: So like the first weekend, right off the bat, my

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Speaker 4: first like real real relationship, Like that's what I was

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Speaker 4: like greeted by, you know, and that was like lingered

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Speaker 4: over our relationship the whole time, and like that gave

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Speaker 4: me like some serious trust issues.

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Speaker 3: Well how did you handle that? When that happened?

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Speaker 4: I got the pictures and like I it was late

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Speaker 4: at night, I couldn't sleep all night. The next day,

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Speaker 4: she was actually working. I drove to her job to

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Speaker 4: talk to her about it. She blamed on her being

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Speaker 4: too drunk and like she didn't remember it, and I

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Speaker 4: was able to forgive her. But those trust is she

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Speaker 4: was definitely lasted the whole relationship. I was always you know,

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Speaker 4: questioning things, and like I never like fully trusted her.

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Speaker 1: Did that girlfriend continue to hook up with other guys

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Speaker 1: or was it a one time incident that left you

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Speaker 1: feeling distrustful throughout the relationship.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, so it was definitely a one time incident from

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Speaker 4: what I know. Of course, we just like had a

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Speaker 4: lot of issues in that relationship because she was a bartender,

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Speaker 4: I like the popular bar school. I feel like that

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Speaker 4: was like the cloud on that relationship for pretty much

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Speaker 4: the whole time. Why was that a cloud, I guess

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Speaker 4: just like insecurities, just like trust issues between us mutual.

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Speaker 3: Did she have trust issues with you as well?

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Speaker 4: No, not that I know of, I don't think so.

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Speaker 4: I never like cheated on or did anything. You know,

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Speaker 4: I always like gave her full access to anything she wanted.

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Speaker 1: When you say you gave her full access to anything

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Speaker 1: she wanted, was she questioning you?

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Speaker 5: No blake?

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Speaker 4: If she ever felt uneasy about something or like someone

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Speaker 4: I would if she wanted to see certain text messages,

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Speaker 4: I would show her, Like I never really had anything

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Speaker 4: to hide from her in that.

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Speaker 1: It sounds like she did have some trust issues if

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Speaker 1: she was asking to see some text messages.

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Speaker 4: She never did specifically, but like as a way for

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Speaker 4: me to prove, you know, my innocence, not that she

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Speaker 4: was like assuming I was doing things.

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Speaker 1: Well. I guess what I'm saying is in a relationship

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Speaker 1: where there's trust, people are not needing to prove their innocence. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: And so it sounds like something happened between the two

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Speaker 1: of you where she communicated in some way that she

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Speaker 1: wasn't sure she could trust you, and then you said no, no, no,

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Speaker 1: you can let me show you these text messages.

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Speaker 4: I think it's more so my trust issues with her.

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Speaker 4: I would ask to see something, and I guess as

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Speaker 4: a way to just like even the plant field, like

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Speaker 4: she would like catch me slippy anyway?

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Speaker 3: You know? Did she have transparency as well?

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Speaker 5: Man?

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Speaker 3: But she's saying, sure, here's my phone, whatever you want.

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Speaker 5: Yeah she did.

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Speaker 3: So what was other than that first weekend? What else

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Speaker 3: was happening there that maintained the distress.

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Speaker 4: Well, for example, one time I saw a text from

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Speaker 4: one of her coworkers and I asked her, like if

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Speaker 4: I could see more about it, and then like when

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Speaker 4: I looked into the phone, it was like the asking

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Speaker 4: her to go on a date and like her saying

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Speaker 4: like yeah, And then when I questioned her about it,

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Speaker 4: she was just like, oh no, like we never did that,

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Speaker 4: like we're just like friends.

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Speaker 5: She never did go on this date, but like, no

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Speaker 5: one does this, like no one texts your friends.

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Speaker 3: She said yes to the date, So that's the problem. Yeah, right,

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Speaker 3: so there was definitely stuff.

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Speaker 5: That was going on, yeah, for sure.

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Speaker 3: And how did you deal with that with her?

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Speaker 4: I was like, I'm gonna lookout for this coworker, Like

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Speaker 4: I started hanging out with her friend grow more, and

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Speaker 4: like I eventually was friends with him, but like it

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Speaker 4: was still just something uneasy to see that.

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Speaker 3: But you were friends with a guy who asked your

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Speaker 3: girlfriend out, well he knew you were with him.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, like not like best friends, but like if I

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Speaker 4: went to an event with her friends, like he would

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Speaker 4: be there.

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Speaker 1: It's interesting that you said there was that one incident

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Speaker 1: which happened early on, and then you said there was

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Speaker 1: nothing else that would make you distrust her throughout the relationship.

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Speaker 1: And yet here's an example. Somebody asked her out, which

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Speaker 1: that's fine because that's not her doing. But then she

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Speaker 1: said yes, And whether she went or not is kind

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Speaker 1: of irrelevant because she said yes to a date. So

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Speaker 1: it sounds like there was more than one incident, and

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Speaker 1: can you tell us about others?

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Speaker 5: Sure?

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Speaker 4: So the kid that she cheated on me with that

385
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Speaker 4: first weekend, he came to school with us, so, like

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Speaker 4: we would see him around like a fair amount, so

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Speaker 4: he was always like obviously like on the back of

388
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Speaker 4: the mind, she like made it clear she was interested,

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Speaker 4: blocked him on everything. But there would be times where

390
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Speaker 4: she'd be bartending and I would see him like go

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Speaker 4: up here and talk to her, and obviously I would react,

392
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Speaker 4: come on, like what are you doing and she's like, oh,

393
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Speaker 4: I'm just doing my job, when in reality like it

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Speaker 4: to me, obviously, it seems like it was more than that.

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Speaker 1: When you saw the text that she had said yes

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Speaker 1: to the date, what was the conversation like between the

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Speaker 1: two of you. So she said, well, I didn't go

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Speaker 1: on it, so it's okay, but obviously it wasn't okay.

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Speaker 5: With you.

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Speaker 1: How did you talk to her about that?

401
00:20:10,119 --> 00:20:12,239
Speaker 4: Yeah, so I pretty much just like made it clear,

402
00:20:12,319 --> 00:20:13,959
Speaker 4: like I was, like, no one says yes to go

403
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Speaker 4: on a daily It's not like a like a friendly

404
00:20:16,199 --> 00:20:19,519
Speaker 4: joke or something like that. And she like understood why.

405
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Speaker 4: I was like disappointed and mad at her about it.

406
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Speaker 4: And I mean after that, nothing really came of it.

407
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Speaker 5: I just like let it go.

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Speaker 1: And you know, did she apologize to you and did

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Speaker 1: she understand why this was creating distrust?

410
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Speaker 5: Yes, she did apologize.

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Speaker 4: I was mad at her for like a week or so,

412
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Speaker 4: if I remember correctly, and she definitely apologized and like

413
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Speaker 4: felt really bad about it.

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Speaker 3: The thing is, you're dating and popular about tender who's

415
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Speaker 3: at the center of the social scene. And so there

416
00:20:46,839 --> 00:20:48,799
Speaker 3: are these two guys, the guy she hooked up with

417
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Speaker 3: and the other guy from work that you know there

418
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Speaker 3: was a hook up in a flirtation with, and you

419
00:20:53,119 --> 00:20:55,399
Speaker 3: even saw in social events. The other guy go up

420
00:20:55,399 --> 00:20:57,839
Speaker 3: to her and she cames, well, understanding my job, he's

421
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Speaker 3: coming up to the bar. I got to talk to him,

422
00:21:00,359 --> 00:21:02,519
Speaker 3: and she's about thender. You got to see a lot

423
00:21:02,599 --> 00:21:04,519
Speaker 3: of guys talking to her. That had to be a

424
00:21:04,559 --> 00:21:06,879
Speaker 3: question in your mind every time she's talking to someone,

425
00:21:07,039 --> 00:21:09,639
Speaker 3: what about this one? What about this one? Did you

426
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Speaker 3: manage that over the relationship?

427
00:21:12,439 --> 00:21:15,839
Speaker 4: Yeah, so obviously that's where a lot of our problems,

428
00:21:16,199 --> 00:21:17,079
Speaker 4: you know, came from.

429
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Speaker 5: In that relationship.

430
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Speaker 4: It was never easy, but eventually, like it got to

431
00:21:22,519 --> 00:21:26,119
Speaker 4: me that it's her job, and I had to trust

432
00:21:26,159 --> 00:21:28,159
Speaker 4: her as much as I could. A lot of the

433
00:21:28,279 --> 00:21:31,599
Speaker 4: nights I was there at the barrow, it was never

434
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Speaker 4: anything like out of the ordinary, Like at that point

435
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Speaker 4: I had just become accustomed to it.

436
00:21:37,239 --> 00:21:40,519
Speaker 3: But did you then become accustomed to it and were

437
00:21:40,559 --> 00:21:42,639
Speaker 3: able to trust her, because you're kind of saying I

438
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Speaker 3: became accustomed to the fact that this is going on,

439
00:21:44,839 --> 00:21:47,319
Speaker 3: that that's part of her job. But I still had

440
00:21:47,319 --> 00:21:50,479
Speaker 3: trust issues throughout. You still had the discomfort even if

441
00:21:50,519 --> 00:21:53,039
Speaker 3: you felt, well, I can't voice it all the time

442
00:21:53,079 --> 00:21:55,119
Speaker 3: because you know, that's part of her job. But it

443
00:21:55,159 --> 00:21:57,679
Speaker 3: sounded like he was still uncomfortable by that.

444
00:21:58,439 --> 00:22:01,479
Speaker 4: Yeah, I would say that it was pretty much always

445
00:22:01,519 --> 00:22:04,679
Speaker 4: the case. As time, you know, I moved on between

446
00:22:04,759 --> 00:22:06,239
Speaker 4: us and we spent more time together and we did

447
00:22:06,279 --> 00:22:09,799
Speaker 4: all these things together. Like I kind of just didn't

448
00:22:09,839 --> 00:22:12,759
Speaker 4: forget about it, But I just like wouldn't let it

449
00:22:12,799 --> 00:22:14,719
Speaker 4: affect me as much, but in the back of my

450
00:22:14,799 --> 00:22:17,399
Speaker 4: mind that was always like a problem for me.

451
00:22:18,839 --> 00:22:21,039
Speaker 1: Tell us about the rest of the relationship and what

452
00:22:21,119 --> 00:22:25,519
Speaker 1: was going on while this trust issue was happening, What

453
00:22:25,759 --> 00:22:28,279
Speaker 1: was going well? Were there other issues that were not

454
00:22:28,399 --> 00:22:29,039
Speaker 1: going well?

455
00:22:29,479 --> 00:22:33,519
Speaker 4: So besides you know the mistrust, I thought our relationship

456
00:22:33,559 --> 00:22:36,399
Speaker 4: was pretty good. We spent a lot of time together

457
00:22:36,839 --> 00:22:39,799
Speaker 4: at school, like we pretty much like lived together. We

458
00:22:39,919 --> 00:22:44,159
Speaker 4: both graduated, and then I guess that's when it started

459
00:22:44,159 --> 00:22:45,559
Speaker 4: like going downhill for good.

460
00:22:45,719 --> 00:22:48,319
Speaker 1: So up to the point of graduation, you felt like

461
00:22:49,359 --> 00:22:51,679
Speaker 1: the trust issue was kind of in the background at

462
00:22:51,679 --> 00:22:55,559
Speaker 1: that point and things were going well and you imagined

463
00:22:55,599 --> 00:22:59,599
Speaker 1: that you would continue dating and maybe even possibly end

464
00:22:59,639 --> 00:23:00,119
Speaker 1: up together.

465
00:23:00,639 --> 00:23:03,279
Speaker 4: Yeah, for sure. Her family loved me, and my family

466
00:23:03,359 --> 00:23:07,119
Speaker 4: loved her. It was definitely pretty good. We had we

467
00:23:07,239 --> 00:23:09,479
Speaker 4: broke up a few times. We took small breaks, but

468
00:23:09,519 --> 00:23:12,119
Speaker 4: like we would always find our way back together.

469
00:23:12,439 --> 00:23:15,519
Speaker 6: Wait, wait, hold on, hold on. You kind of tossed

470
00:23:15,519 --> 00:23:17,479
Speaker 6: that out there. We broke up a few times. So

471
00:23:18,119 --> 00:23:20,559
Speaker 6: you're saying two things. You're saying one things were going

472
00:23:20,599 --> 00:23:22,519
Speaker 6: really well, and the other thing is, oh, yeah, and

473
00:23:22,559 --> 00:23:24,319
Speaker 6: we broke up a few times, So tell us about

474
00:23:24,319 --> 00:23:25,719
Speaker 6: this few times.

475
00:23:25,479 --> 00:23:27,759
Speaker 4: It would be like for small amounts of time, like

476
00:23:27,799 --> 00:23:31,759
Speaker 4: a week, two weeks. The longest one was I guess

477
00:23:31,839 --> 00:23:36,119
Speaker 4: this is another important thing to tron. To start the rellianship,

478
00:23:36,319 --> 00:23:39,319
Speaker 4: she had had a boyfriend in high school that she

479
00:23:39,439 --> 00:23:42,199
Speaker 4: dated for I think two years, and she was dating him,

480
00:23:42,279 --> 00:23:45,199
Speaker 4: I believe her first year of school. So this was

481
00:23:45,199 --> 00:23:48,799
Speaker 4: before I even knew her. So when I came into

482
00:23:48,799 --> 00:23:53,199
Speaker 4: the picture, I had known of the X And in

483
00:23:53,239 --> 00:23:56,039
Speaker 4: the beginning, we weren't together right off the bat, so

484
00:23:56,959 --> 00:24:00,599
Speaker 4: I remember we were leaving. She told me she was like,

485
00:24:00,639 --> 00:24:03,079
Speaker 4: I don't think I could keep doing this like I have,

486
00:24:03,759 --> 00:24:06,919
Speaker 4: you know, my ex, and so she went and visited

487
00:24:06,999 --> 00:24:10,479
Speaker 4: him in another state during this win a break. So

488
00:24:10,639 --> 00:24:13,919
Speaker 4: then a month after that she pretty much like came

489
00:24:13,959 --> 00:24:16,399
Speaker 4: back to me and was like, yeah, that's like done,

490
00:24:17,199 --> 00:24:18,199
Speaker 4: I want to be with you.

491
00:24:18,799 --> 00:24:20,399
Speaker 1: That was the start of your relationship.

492
00:24:20,959 --> 00:24:21,359
Speaker 5: Yeah.

493
00:24:21,399 --> 00:24:24,279
Speaker 4: And then after that, like when we when she finally

494
00:24:24,319 --> 00:24:27,039
Speaker 4: said that to me, that's like when I started taking

495
00:24:27,039 --> 00:24:31,639
Speaker 4: in a very serious and then the weekend after then

496
00:24:31,919 --> 00:24:35,159
Speaker 4: that happened. So definitely a rough start to it.

497
00:24:35,439 --> 00:24:37,519
Speaker 1: Tell us about the other breakups, the times that you

498
00:24:37,519 --> 00:24:39,839
Speaker 1: you said you broke up a few times, sure, tell

499
00:24:39,919 --> 00:24:40,559
Speaker 1: us about those.

500
00:24:40,959 --> 00:24:42,919
Speaker 5: So it would just be like, you know, we would

501
00:24:42,959 --> 00:24:43,959
Speaker 5: be arguing a lot.

502
00:24:44,159 --> 00:24:46,759
Speaker 4: She wouldn't like how I acted if I saw her

503
00:24:46,839 --> 00:24:50,439
Speaker 4: like talking to a certain guy when in my mind,

504
00:24:50,479 --> 00:24:54,039
Speaker 4: like I had reason to you know, doubt what like

505
00:24:54,959 --> 00:24:56,079
Speaker 4: what she's actually doing.

506
00:24:56,759 --> 00:25:00,279
Speaker 3: So what would happen? Who broke up with whom in

507
00:25:00,279 --> 00:25:01,079
Speaker 3: that situation?

508
00:25:01,999 --> 00:25:04,799
Speaker 5: One time I broke up with her, another time she

509
00:25:04,919 --> 00:25:05,599
Speaker 5: broke up with me.

510
00:25:06,479 --> 00:25:08,839
Speaker 1: And did she talk to you about why this was

511
00:25:08,919 --> 00:25:11,999
Speaker 1: upsetting her? That maybe she felt controlled or she felt

512
00:25:12,079 --> 00:25:15,399
Speaker 1: like you were not giving her enough space, that she

513
00:25:15,439 --> 00:25:18,279
Speaker 1: wanted you to trust her, and you were kind of

514
00:25:18,399 --> 00:25:21,079
Speaker 1: monitoring her and being at the bar and you know

515
00:25:21,159 --> 00:25:23,799
Speaker 1: kind of like her chaperone as opposed to her boyfriend.

516
00:25:24,279 --> 00:25:27,839
Speaker 4: So basically, yeah, she would just like not appreciate, like

517
00:25:28,279 --> 00:25:31,199
Speaker 4: me getting mad about certain things. Like her response was

518
00:25:31,199 --> 00:25:33,559
Speaker 4: always like it's my job, Like it's my job.

519
00:25:34,039 --> 00:25:36,319
Speaker 1: What exactly was she doing that would upset you when

520
00:25:36,319 --> 00:25:37,439
Speaker 1: she would say it's my job.

521
00:25:37,759 --> 00:25:39,439
Speaker 4: The way she would talk to some of the guys,

522
00:25:40,039 --> 00:25:42,279
Speaker 4: she would like call them close to the bar, like

523
00:25:42,359 --> 00:25:44,879
Speaker 4: lean over the bar and like talking to her obviously

524
00:25:44,919 --> 00:25:46,719
Speaker 4: like it's a loud bar Like I understand this to

525
00:25:46,759 --> 00:25:49,599
Speaker 4: the point, but there was definitely like some people that

526
00:25:49,639 --> 00:25:51,959
Speaker 4: I was just like a little worried about.

527
00:25:51,759 --> 00:25:52,999
Speaker 3: Because of the buddy language.

528
00:25:53,079 --> 00:25:55,359
Speaker 5: Yeah, just like it looks like flirting, you know.

529
00:25:55,839 --> 00:25:58,039
Speaker 3: So she would call them over sometimes, not like they

530
00:25:58,039 --> 00:25:59,559
Speaker 3: would go over and talk to her and she would

531
00:25:59,599 --> 00:26:02,799
Speaker 3: talk to them, but sometimes she might actually call them over. Yeah,

532
00:26:03,119 --> 00:26:05,199
Speaker 3: you said we always found that way back, which is

533
00:26:05,279 --> 00:26:08,079
Speaker 3: kind of a romantic way to think about it. But

534
00:26:08,199 --> 00:26:10,279
Speaker 3: what happened to how did you get back? Who would

535
00:26:10,279 --> 00:26:12,079
Speaker 3: apologize to whom? Who would approach him?

536
00:26:12,479 --> 00:26:13,999
Speaker 4: The time I broke up with her, I know, like

537
00:26:14,039 --> 00:26:16,119
Speaker 4: she reached out to me and just like said like, oh,

538
00:26:16,159 --> 00:26:18,999
Speaker 4: like she missed me, and you know, she wants to

539
00:26:19,119 --> 00:26:22,079
Speaker 4: work on things, so we could try again and things

540
00:26:22,119 --> 00:26:24,279
Speaker 4: would be different this time, you know, and it would

541
00:26:24,279 --> 00:26:25,279
Speaker 4: never really change.

542
00:26:25,479 --> 00:26:27,719
Speaker 1: Did the two of you ever talk about what specifically

543
00:26:27,759 --> 00:26:30,119
Speaker 1: would be different or it was just a vague things

544
00:26:30,159 --> 00:26:30,799
Speaker 1: will be different.

545
00:26:31,279 --> 00:26:33,399
Speaker 5: Yeah, it was just pretty much just like vague.

546
00:26:33,639 --> 00:26:36,519
Speaker 4: At this point, I was, you know, younger, I wasn't

547
00:26:36,799 --> 00:26:39,039
Speaker 4: into the therapy, Like I wasn't like really trying to

548
00:26:39,119 --> 00:26:41,279
Speaker 4: like look into like the issues and like find the

549
00:26:41,399 --> 00:26:44,839
Speaker 4: root and all that. That's why I think I've brought,

550
00:26:45,119 --> 00:26:46,639
Speaker 4: you know, a lot of that stuff from that first

551
00:26:46,679 --> 00:26:50,079
Speaker 4: relationship into this last one. You know, like I said

552
00:26:50,119 --> 00:26:52,519
Speaker 4: the letter, I'm feel like I'm a lot more upset

553
00:26:52,559 --> 00:26:55,159
Speaker 4: about this one than I was that first one being over,

554
00:26:55,959 --> 00:26:58,839
Speaker 4: and that first one was much longer time together.

555
00:26:59,319 --> 00:27:01,199
Speaker 1: So how did this relationship finally end?

556
00:27:01,639 --> 00:27:05,479
Speaker 4: After like a while together? We graduated a few months

557
00:27:05,479 --> 00:27:08,239
Speaker 4: after that. I kind of just like we weren't seeing

558
00:27:08,279 --> 00:27:10,679
Speaker 4: each other as much because we weren't super close to

559
00:27:10,719 --> 00:27:14,199
Speaker 4: each other anymore. You know, I'd see her like every

560
00:27:14,279 --> 00:27:18,119
Speaker 4: weekend if that, sometimes not even that, and it just

561
00:27:18,159 --> 00:27:20,319
Speaker 4: felt like it kind of just like ran its course.

562
00:27:20,839 --> 00:27:23,719
Speaker 4: I went to her house and we just like sat

563
00:27:23,799 --> 00:27:26,519
Speaker 4: down and we just talked, and then we decided to

564
00:27:26,519 --> 00:27:27,319
Speaker 4: go our separate ways.

565
00:27:27,359 --> 00:27:30,159
Speaker 5: You know. After that, we didn't I haven't really been

566
00:27:30,199 --> 00:27:30,839
Speaker 5: in contact.

567
00:27:31,159 --> 00:27:33,119
Speaker 3: You said, do you think you carried over stuff from

568
00:27:33,119 --> 00:27:36,959
Speaker 3: that first relationship to the second one? What specifically did

569
00:27:36,999 --> 00:27:38,439
Speaker 3: you think you carried over there?

570
00:27:38,879 --> 00:27:40,399
Speaker 5: I guess a bit of insecurity.

571
00:27:40,719 --> 00:27:46,279
Speaker 4: After that relationship, that fresh relationship had ended, Like I

572
00:27:46,319 --> 00:27:49,039
Speaker 4: started learning more and more stuff, Like every time I

573
00:27:49,079 --> 00:27:51,479
Speaker 4: had a problem in that relationship, and I would bring

574
00:27:51,519 --> 00:27:55,119
Speaker 4: it up. She would just like think, it's me like

575
00:27:55,279 --> 00:27:57,759
Speaker 4: overthinking and like bugging out about things.

576
00:27:58,319 --> 00:28:00,799
Speaker 3: And so the insecurity, how did it manifest in your

577
00:28:00,839 --> 00:28:01,799
Speaker 3: next relationship?

578
00:28:01,879 --> 00:28:05,319
Speaker 4: I would always like overthink pretty much every situation. If

579
00:28:05,399 --> 00:28:08,599
Speaker 4: she went out for a while and like didn't answer

580
00:28:08,719 --> 00:28:11,639
Speaker 4: me for like an hour or two, like I would

581
00:28:11,679 --> 00:28:14,359
Speaker 4: just like text her and be like are you okay?

582
00:28:14,399 --> 00:28:18,079
Speaker 5: Like are you doing anything? And she never did anything,

583
00:28:18,119 --> 00:28:19,839
Speaker 5: and it was just like pretty unfaired her.

584
00:28:20,039 --> 00:28:22,999
Speaker 3: So the trust issue is what, Carrie, doova really significantly

585
00:28:23,119 --> 00:28:23,319
Speaker 3: for you?

586
00:28:23,679 --> 00:28:26,799
Speaker 4: Yeah, just like being able to like fully trust her

587
00:28:27,319 --> 00:28:30,079
Speaker 4: and like she didn't do anything to me to break

588
00:28:30,119 --> 00:28:31,239
Speaker 4: that trust in the first place.

589
00:28:31,479 --> 00:28:34,279
Speaker 1: Can you tell us a little bit about what it

590
00:28:34,319 --> 00:28:36,719
Speaker 1: was like growing up for you, what your parents' relationship

591
00:28:36,839 --> 00:28:40,199
Speaker 1: was like, just a little bit about your childhood.

592
00:28:40,439 --> 00:28:43,519
Speaker 5: My parents have been together my whole life. My mom

593
00:28:43,559 --> 00:28:45,959
Speaker 5: lived in Cuba. She moved here when she was eighteen

594
00:28:46,039 --> 00:28:46,479
Speaker 5: years old.

595
00:28:46,999 --> 00:28:50,319
Speaker 4: My dad definitely drank a lot while I was younger,

596
00:28:50,399 --> 00:28:52,959
Speaker 4: so I'd hear a lot of fights between them. I

597
00:28:52,999 --> 00:28:56,079
Speaker 4: would later find out like my dad had a pretty

598
00:28:56,119 --> 00:28:57,119
Speaker 4: serious like drug.

599
00:28:56,919 --> 00:28:58,639
Speaker 5: Problem as well.

600
00:28:58,719 --> 00:29:01,319
Speaker 4: And so when I was a senior in high school,

601
00:29:01,719 --> 00:29:04,439
Speaker 4: I got like called out of school. My brother picked

602
00:29:04,439 --> 00:29:07,439
Speaker 4: me up and once my grandparents' house, and like they

603
00:29:07,679 --> 00:29:11,159
Speaker 4: pretty much like sat me down, like just like up

604
00:29:11,279 --> 00:29:11,999
Speaker 4: ended my whole world.

605
00:29:12,079 --> 00:29:14,359
Speaker 5: They told me like this whole thing that.

606
00:29:14,319 --> 00:29:16,519
Speaker 4: Had happened with my dad and that like I'm not

607
00:29:16,559 --> 00:29:19,879
Speaker 4: going to be seeing him anymore. And so that was

608
00:29:19,919 --> 00:29:22,559
Speaker 4: like a pretty big deal. He decided he had to

609
00:29:22,599 --> 00:29:26,439
Speaker 4: go to rehab, so he like left for about a

610
00:29:26,479 --> 00:29:29,599
Speaker 4: month or so, and then he came back and ever

611
00:29:29,639 --> 00:29:32,479
Speaker 4: since then he's been completely sober. He doesn't drink anymore,

612
00:29:32,559 --> 00:29:35,999
Speaker 4: doesn't do anything. Him and my mom never split up.

613
00:29:36,079 --> 00:29:38,999
Speaker 4: My mom stood by his side during, you know, even

614
00:29:39,039 --> 00:29:42,359
Speaker 4: the bad times. So that's definitely something I saw. But

615
00:29:43,599 --> 00:29:45,719
Speaker 4: this is something I've talked to my other therapist about

616
00:29:45,719 --> 00:29:49,599
Speaker 4: as well. This was like a complete shock to me.

617
00:29:49,839 --> 00:29:51,799
Speaker 4: The one person like I looked up to in my life,

618
00:29:51,799 --> 00:29:54,879
Speaker 4: Like you found this out and like I had no idea.

619
00:29:55,079 --> 00:29:56,199
Speaker 5: It completely blinds side of.

620
00:29:56,199 --> 00:29:59,039
Speaker 3: Me when's the family involved in the rehab, But a

621
00:29:59,079 --> 00:30:02,119
Speaker 3: lot of the times family is brought in, especially when

622
00:30:02,639 --> 00:30:04,959
Speaker 3: their adults. You were eighteen, I think at that point

623
00:30:05,159 --> 00:30:07,999
Speaker 3: was you are part of that was that disgusted.

624
00:30:07,479 --> 00:30:10,759
Speaker 5: I went and visited him two times when he was

625
00:30:10,799 --> 00:30:11,199
Speaker 5: in there.

626
00:30:11,399 --> 00:30:13,799
Speaker 3: Did you and he talk about it? Did he talk

627
00:30:13,839 --> 00:30:15,039
Speaker 3: to you about what was going on?

628
00:30:16,399 --> 00:30:20,399
Speaker 4: Yeah, we had like pretty serious conversations about it after,

629
00:30:20,639 --> 00:30:22,159
Speaker 4: and we have a great relationship now.

630
00:30:22,639 --> 00:30:24,879
Speaker 5: Him and my mom are obviously stood together there.

631
00:30:25,479 --> 00:30:27,919
Speaker 4: They're better than I've ever been ever since he pretty

632
00:30:27,959 --> 00:30:31,799
Speaker 4: much like came back from that. They rarely fight, nothing

633
00:30:31,919 --> 00:30:32,199
Speaker 4: like it.

634
00:30:32,239 --> 00:30:32,599
Speaker 5: Used to be.

635
00:30:32,839 --> 00:30:36,439
Speaker 3: And his issue was with alcohol and what drugs, cocaine,

636
00:30:36,839 --> 00:30:39,879
Speaker 3: And the fact that he had those issues with alcohol

637
00:30:39,959 --> 00:30:44,119
Speaker 3: and cocaine. Did that give you any misgivings about your

638
00:30:44,199 --> 00:30:47,159
Speaker 3: own you, so any warning about I need to be

639
00:30:47,239 --> 00:30:50,799
Speaker 3: closoert about my relationship with alcohol and with drugs because

640
00:30:51,039 --> 00:30:52,719
Speaker 3: I have it with my dad and I've seen what

641
00:30:52,799 --> 00:30:54,159
Speaker 3: happened to him.

642
00:30:54,759 --> 00:30:57,719
Speaker 4: Obviously it was It's always something that's been on my mind.

643
00:30:58,039 --> 00:31:01,599
Speaker 4: But like obviously I continue to do it. Now is

644
00:31:01,599 --> 00:31:04,679
Speaker 4: when I'm like realizing that, like you know, I'm getting older,

645
00:31:04,719 --> 00:31:07,719
Speaker 4: I need to like start being more responsible and uh,

646
00:31:08,119 --> 00:31:10,519
Speaker 4: like I'm taking it a lot more serious than I

647
00:31:10,559 --> 00:31:12,799
Speaker 4: ever had before. Back then I was in school, Like

648
00:31:12,839 --> 00:31:15,319
Speaker 4: I want that fun, you know. I tried to not

649
00:31:15,439 --> 00:31:19,199
Speaker 4: let that like control me or make his decisions be

650
00:31:19,239 --> 00:31:23,359
Speaker 4: a reflection on me. But after this, all this has happened,

651
00:31:23,399 --> 00:31:26,079
Speaker 4: like now I'm realizing that, like I need to cut

652
00:31:26,079 --> 00:31:29,439
Speaker 4: it down, and I have been doing so for the

653
00:31:29,519 --> 00:31:30,359
Speaker 4: last few weekends.

654
00:31:30,359 --> 00:31:33,719
Speaker 1: Now what does it mean by cutting it down? Because

655
00:31:33,759 --> 00:31:35,799
Speaker 1: everybody has a different definition of that.

656
00:31:36,519 --> 00:31:39,559
Speaker 4: Sure, Sure, Now I go out and have you know,

657
00:31:39,799 --> 00:31:42,999
Speaker 4: three beers, four beers. You know, my friends have all

658
00:31:43,279 --> 00:31:45,559
Speaker 4: all continue to you know, drink as they used to,

659
00:31:45,759 --> 00:31:49,319
Speaker 4: because none of them, you know, they're all fine. But myself,

660
00:31:49,399 --> 00:31:51,879
Speaker 4: like I just like am pacing myself, you know, mixing

661
00:31:52,079 --> 00:31:54,999
Speaker 4: waters if I have to. But I haven't been drunk

662
00:31:55,039 --> 00:31:57,639
Speaker 4: in the last month, and that's been you know, it's

663
00:31:57,639 --> 00:31:59,239
Speaker 4: been a while since I've gone that long.

664
00:31:59,519 --> 00:32:01,199
Speaker 1: Why do you think you stayed? Given that you were

665
00:32:01,199 --> 00:32:03,999
Speaker 1: on edge so much of the time during that relationship.

666
00:32:04,559 --> 00:32:05,879
Speaker 5: I remember feeling.

667
00:32:07,279 --> 00:32:09,039
Speaker 4: Like we're just like always thinking to myself, like why

668
00:32:09,039 --> 00:32:11,119
Speaker 4: I can't I mean to graduate, so like she's done

669
00:32:11,119 --> 00:32:14,679
Speaker 4: with this bartiding job, and you know, you know, so

670
00:32:14,719 --> 00:32:17,679
Speaker 4: like that was kind of something I held on to,

671
00:32:17,839 --> 00:32:18,239
Speaker 4: and like.

672
00:32:18,319 --> 00:32:19,639
Speaker 5: She was also excited.

673
00:32:19,679 --> 00:32:21,359
Speaker 4: She would say to me like, oh, I can't wait,

674
00:32:21,399 --> 00:32:23,559
Speaker 4: like when we're done and I get like my full

675
00:32:23,599 --> 00:32:25,199
Speaker 4: time job, and like we just don't have to deal

676
00:32:25,199 --> 00:32:27,679
Speaker 4: with this anymore. So that was definitely something we both

677
00:32:27,799 --> 00:32:29,199
Speaker 4: you know, thought about.

678
00:32:29,039 --> 00:32:32,559
Speaker 1: But then it happened. You graduated, she wasn't a bartender anymore,

679
00:32:32,639 --> 00:32:35,399
Speaker 1: and so at that point you said, that was when

680
00:32:35,399 --> 00:32:38,759
Speaker 1: you split up. So what do you think happened there where?

681
00:32:38,759 --> 00:32:42,319
Speaker 1: This was this time when this big kind of elephant

682
00:32:42,359 --> 00:32:44,639
Speaker 1: in the room that existed between the two of you

683
00:32:45,159 --> 00:32:47,159
Speaker 1: was going to go away and now the two of

684
00:32:47,199 --> 00:32:50,759
Speaker 1: you could have more normalcy and see who you were

685
00:32:50,799 --> 00:32:53,719
Speaker 1: to each other. But it sounds like you didn't want

686
00:32:53,759 --> 00:32:55,559
Speaker 1: to explore that with each other once you had the

687
00:32:55,559 --> 00:32:56,399
Speaker 1: freedom to do that.

688
00:32:57,519 --> 00:32:59,839
Speaker 5: I was definitely excited about it. I think we both were.

689
00:32:59,999 --> 00:33:02,719
Speaker 4: But you know, as time passed, I guess, you know,

690
00:33:03,399 --> 00:33:06,239
Speaker 4: not being together as much as we used to be,

691
00:33:06,439 --> 00:33:09,279
Speaker 4: like the space we had more, a lot more space

692
00:33:09,359 --> 00:33:12,719
Speaker 4: between us. I felt like the relationship at Roy's course,

693
00:33:13,159 --> 00:33:16,319
Speaker 4: and it's like the spark was gone, you know, after all,

694
00:33:16,519 --> 00:33:18,599
Speaker 4: like we've been through together, Like it was just like

695
00:33:18,639 --> 00:33:22,639
Speaker 4: a It was a long relationship and it was definitely

696
00:33:22,719 --> 00:33:24,439
Speaker 4: taxing on myself.

697
00:33:25,679 --> 00:33:27,639
Speaker 1: This is so interesting to me. It reminds me a

698
00:33:27,679 --> 00:33:31,719
Speaker 1: little bit of people who have some kind of obstacle

699
00:33:31,759 --> 00:33:34,919
Speaker 1: in their relationship, like their long distance or you know,

700
00:33:35,039 --> 00:33:37,239
Speaker 1: or someone is having an affair and they're finally going

701
00:33:37,319 --> 00:33:39,919
Speaker 1: to leave their partner and the couple will now be

702
00:33:40,079 --> 00:33:44,319
Speaker 1: free to be together. And then they've been waiting for that,

703
00:33:44,319 --> 00:33:46,679
Speaker 1: that's the thing that they've been holding on to, and

704
00:33:46,719 --> 00:33:49,919
Speaker 1: then they get that, and then they don't want it.

705
00:33:50,679 --> 00:33:52,559
Speaker 1: And I wonder if part of the allure when I

706
00:33:52,599 --> 00:33:54,879
Speaker 1: asked earlier why you stayed in this for so long,

707
00:33:56,039 --> 00:33:58,239
Speaker 1: was that you couldn't really have her in the way

708
00:33:58,279 --> 00:34:00,879
Speaker 1: you wanted to, and then when you maybe could, you

709
00:34:00,919 --> 00:34:04,079
Speaker 1: could at least explore that you didn't want her anymore.

710
00:34:04,799 --> 00:34:08,519
Speaker 1: And when we talk about the most recent relationship, I

711
00:34:08,559 --> 00:34:12,439
Speaker 1: wonder if some that is what's being brought over, that

712
00:34:12,479 --> 00:34:17,319
Speaker 1: there's something about you where part of you really wants

713
00:34:17,359 --> 00:34:21,199
Speaker 1: to have a girlfriend and is that romantic and wants

714
00:34:21,239 --> 00:34:24,359
Speaker 1: to have this kind of relationship, but another part of

715
00:34:24,399 --> 00:34:29,759
Speaker 1: you isn't quite comfortable with it and sabotages it.

716
00:34:29,679 --> 00:34:30,599
Speaker 5: In some way.

717
00:34:30,559 --> 00:34:34,999
Speaker 4: Ye, So in the most recent relationship, at the start,

718
00:34:35,119 --> 00:34:37,839
Speaker 4: she was the one that was like a lot more

719
00:34:37,839 --> 00:34:42,159
Speaker 4: interested in me and wanting to pursue me. And at

720
00:34:42,159 --> 00:34:45,999
Speaker 4: the beginning I was more hesitant on it. Like I

721
00:34:45,999 --> 00:34:48,119
Speaker 4: got out of a slow relationship, I wasn't ready to

722
00:34:48,239 --> 00:34:50,999
Speaker 4: jump into a new one yet. So in the beginning,

723
00:34:51,039 --> 00:34:52,999
Speaker 4: like I definitely had my wall up, in my guard

724
00:34:53,079 --> 00:34:54,639
Speaker 4: up for a longer time.

725
00:34:55,119 --> 00:34:56,679
Speaker 5: And yeah, and eventually.

726
00:34:56,239 --> 00:34:59,519
Speaker 4: I obviously like brought her in and then I thought

727
00:34:59,559 --> 00:35:00,079
Speaker 4: it was great.

728
00:35:00,839 --> 00:35:04,479
Speaker 1: Right, So consciously you quote unquote made it official and

729
00:35:04,519 --> 00:35:08,199
Speaker 1: you took that leap. But then when you drink, the

730
00:35:08,279 --> 00:35:10,279
Speaker 1: part of you that I think was maybe afraid of

731
00:35:10,319 --> 00:35:13,759
Speaker 1: what this was made sure that it would not progress

732
00:35:13,999 --> 00:35:18,439
Speaker 1: because you kept doing something that would push her away

733
00:35:18,879 --> 00:35:24,639
Speaker 1: and you weren't intentionally doing it, you were drunk. But

734
00:35:24,959 --> 00:35:27,239
Speaker 1: I think that you have these two parts of yourself.

735
00:35:27,279 --> 00:35:29,119
Speaker 1: There's a part that really wants to be in a

736
00:35:29,119 --> 00:35:32,279
Speaker 1: healthy relationship that feels good, and there's another part of

737
00:35:32,279 --> 00:35:34,599
Speaker 1: you that just doesn't trust that someone's going to be

738
00:35:34,719 --> 00:35:38,799
Speaker 1: there for you in that way that feels very scary,

739
00:35:38,839 --> 00:35:41,439
Speaker 1: it's very anxiety provoking, and you don't ever want to

740
00:35:41,479 --> 00:35:44,999
Speaker 1: be in that situation again. And even though this current

741
00:35:45,079 --> 00:35:48,719
Speaker 1: person hasn't done anything to make you feel like she's

742
00:35:48,759 --> 00:35:52,719
Speaker 1: not trustworthy, I think that you have this feeling inside,

743
00:35:52,879 --> 00:35:58,039
Speaker 1: this question inside about whether somebody really wants you and

744
00:35:58,719 --> 00:35:58,999
Speaker 1: just you.

745
00:35:59,519 --> 00:36:01,359
Speaker 5: Yeah, I think that's pretty good.

746
00:36:01,399 --> 00:36:04,439
Speaker 4: And you know, it's something I've talked about with my therapist,

747
00:36:04,679 --> 00:36:08,319
Speaker 4: like how I feel like I'm self sabotaging it in

748
00:36:08,359 --> 00:36:08,599
Speaker 4: a way.

749
00:36:08,799 --> 00:36:10,319
Speaker 5: Just like you said, I agree.

750
00:36:10,359 --> 00:36:13,599
Speaker 4: I think part of it is because like the people

751
00:36:13,639 --> 00:36:16,199
Speaker 4: in my life that I fully trusted, you know, I

752
00:36:16,359 --> 00:36:18,319
Speaker 4: just like haven't even been able to trust. First with

753
00:36:18,439 --> 00:36:21,879
Speaker 4: my dad and everything that happened with that situation like

754
00:36:22,159 --> 00:36:26,279
Speaker 4: that bombshell, and then with my first girlfriendly, I just

755
00:36:26,359 --> 00:36:28,559
Speaker 4: like he wasn't even able to build up that trust

756
00:36:28,599 --> 00:36:28,919
Speaker 4: with her.

757
00:36:29,599 --> 00:36:32,839
Speaker 3: Do you know how to build trust with someone when

758
00:36:32,879 --> 00:36:36,079
Speaker 3: you're dating them, because, for example, you said you didn't

759
00:36:36,399 --> 00:36:38,559
Speaker 3: know what it was that led to you calling her

760
00:36:38,559 --> 00:36:41,799
Speaker 3: a slut four times, But given what you're describing, truly,

761
00:36:41,839 --> 00:36:43,559
Speaker 3: you can just be in a bus somewhere. You know,

762
00:36:44,119 --> 00:36:45,719
Speaker 3: a guy could just pass by and ask her where

763
00:36:45,719 --> 00:36:47,359
Speaker 3: the restroom is, and you turn around you see her

764
00:36:47,399 --> 00:36:50,439
Speaker 3: talking to someone, and that might do it. Because one

765
00:36:50,439 --> 00:36:53,679
Speaker 3: thing that's important in this kind of situation is to

766
00:36:53,679 --> 00:36:56,559
Speaker 3: be super aware of what your triggers are. Have you

767
00:36:57,359 --> 00:36:59,559
Speaker 3: come up with any other kinds of steps that you

768
00:36:59,719 --> 00:37:03,959
Speaker 3: might take if this relationship were to continue to avoid

769
00:37:03,999 --> 00:37:05,119
Speaker 3: those traps.

770
00:37:05,599 --> 00:37:06,079
Speaker 5: Yeah, so.

771
00:37:07,919 --> 00:37:11,919
Speaker 4: Like with this last relationship, I know, it's just to

772
00:37:11,919 --> 00:37:14,839
Speaker 4: touch on your point a little bit. Like we were

773
00:37:14,879 --> 00:37:17,959
Speaker 4: at one time and like a musual friend of ours

774
00:37:17,999 --> 00:37:20,239
Speaker 4: like was talking to her, Like you said, like they

775
00:37:20,239 --> 00:37:21,959
Speaker 4: got close to her ear because like we're in a

776
00:37:21,999 --> 00:37:23,959
Speaker 4: bar and it's loud, and like I would just like

777
00:37:24,119 --> 00:37:26,639
Speaker 4: have like a flashback like back at school, and I

778
00:37:26,679 --> 00:37:30,079
Speaker 4: was just like I'd see myself getting angry and like

779
00:37:30,119 --> 00:37:32,239
Speaker 4: I would just like try to control myself and then

780
00:37:32,319 --> 00:37:34,359
Speaker 4: I would bring it up to her. She would just say,

781
00:37:34,399 --> 00:37:37,319
Speaker 4: like you know him, like that he's my friend too, like,

782
00:37:37,479 --> 00:37:39,679
Speaker 4: and there was actually nothing to be worried about. It

783
00:37:39,719 --> 00:37:42,959
Speaker 4: was just kind of just like PTSD just like kicking

784
00:37:42,999 --> 00:37:47,439
Speaker 4: in like attributing the last relationship to her, when in reality,

785
00:37:47,439 --> 00:37:50,279
Speaker 4: it's obviously nothing that I had to be, you know,

786
00:37:50,399 --> 00:37:51,319
Speaker 4: even worried about it all.

787
00:37:51,479 --> 00:37:54,159
Speaker 1: When Guy was asking do you know how to build trust?

788
00:37:54,919 --> 00:37:57,239
Speaker 1: I think we need to be clear about who you're

789
00:37:57,239 --> 00:38:00,159
Speaker 1: trying to trust. In this case, you said, there's nothing

790
00:38:00,199 --> 00:38:04,719
Speaker 1: she's done that would make you distrust her. Sometimes the

791
00:38:04,799 --> 00:38:07,639
Speaker 1: reason that we can't trust someone is not that we

792
00:38:07,679 --> 00:38:10,399
Speaker 1: don't trust them, it's that we don't trust that someone

793
00:38:10,479 --> 00:38:13,879
Speaker 1: will love us. That we don't trust that we are lovable,

794
00:38:15,199 --> 00:38:18,359
Speaker 1: that we are lovable enough to sustain someone over time

795
00:38:18,399 --> 00:38:22,999
Speaker 1: in a monogamous relationship. And so it's not so much

796
00:38:23,039 --> 00:38:28,039
Speaker 1: about trusting her, but it's about having trust in the

797
00:38:28,119 --> 00:38:32,079
Speaker 1: idea that someone can love you. Does that resonate with

798
00:38:32,119 --> 00:38:32,639
Speaker 1: you at all?

799
00:38:33,479 --> 00:38:33,959
Speaker 5: Yeah?

800
00:38:34,319 --> 00:38:36,479
Speaker 4: As time goes on, like you just like questioned, like,

801
00:38:36,559 --> 00:38:40,719
Speaker 4: am I enough? I'm an overthinker, And obviously you see

802
00:38:41,239 --> 00:38:44,519
Speaker 4: and hear all these stories, you know, it's definitely like

803
00:38:44,559 --> 00:38:48,359
Speaker 4: it's something that it's probably super hard to find someone

804
00:38:48,399 --> 00:38:50,159
Speaker 4: that's gonna, you know, love me for.

805
00:38:51,479 --> 00:38:51,959
Speaker 5: That long.

806
00:38:52,159 --> 00:38:53,599
Speaker 1: Why do you think that would be hard?

807
00:38:53,999 --> 00:38:54,799
Speaker 5: I just feel like.

808
00:38:56,399 --> 00:38:59,919
Speaker 4: Everything that goes on like nowadays, it's just like hard

809
00:38:59,919 --> 00:39:02,359
Speaker 4: to find someone that will be like committed to one

810
00:39:02,399 --> 00:39:05,479
Speaker 4: person for a long period of time.

811
00:39:05,839 --> 00:39:10,399
Speaker 3: And I think that with this lost girlfriend, there will

812
00:39:10,439 --> 00:39:12,799
Speaker 3: be a trust issue on her end as well at

813
00:39:12,799 --> 00:39:15,959
Speaker 3: this point, right because full times you said these things

814
00:39:15,959 --> 00:39:19,199
Speaker 3: to her, and so she will also have a hard

815
00:39:19,239 --> 00:39:22,199
Speaker 3: time trusting. What is the current status between the two

816
00:39:22,199 --> 00:39:24,239
Speaker 3: of you? Are you in touch? You know this you

817
00:39:24,279 --> 00:39:26,759
Speaker 3: wrote a letter about you know, can this work if

818
00:39:26,759 --> 00:39:28,959
Speaker 3: we came back together, but that is that an option

819
00:39:29,159 --> 00:39:29,599
Speaker 3: right now?

820
00:39:30,159 --> 00:39:32,159
Speaker 5: We're not talking day to day right now.

821
00:39:33,199 --> 00:39:35,439
Speaker 4: She's told me that she wants just like space to

822
00:39:35,479 --> 00:39:39,239
Speaker 4: think about things, because she does say like at this like,

823
00:39:39,279 --> 00:39:41,279
Speaker 4: I don't know how I could trust your word anymore,

824
00:39:41,319 --> 00:39:43,439
Speaker 4: Like you've told me it was not gonna happen anymore.

825
00:39:44,359 --> 00:39:46,439
Speaker 5: I don't blame her at all. Like She's completely right.

826
00:39:47,319 --> 00:39:49,279
Speaker 4: I've also tried to make it clear like how I

827
00:39:49,319 --> 00:39:52,199
Speaker 4: really feel about her, and I told her, you know,

828
00:39:52,919 --> 00:39:55,159
Speaker 4: every day I'm working to get better. I'm you know,

829
00:39:55,239 --> 00:39:57,479
Speaker 4: going to therapy. I'm trying to get to the root

830
00:39:57,479 --> 00:39:59,759
Speaker 4: of all these issues so we could try to control

831
00:39:59,799 --> 00:40:02,719
Speaker 4: it and hopefully if I'm giving a chance to never

832
00:40:02,799 --> 00:40:03,359
Speaker 4: happen again.

833
00:40:04,079 --> 00:40:05,279
Speaker 3: How do you feel about her?

834
00:40:05,559 --> 00:40:06,399
Speaker 5: Absolutely love her.

835
00:40:06,759 --> 00:40:09,159
Speaker 4: Just the way I feel about her is completely different

836
00:40:09,159 --> 00:40:12,399
Speaker 4: from that first relationship, and that just kills me because

837
00:40:12,599 --> 00:40:17,279
Speaker 4: I know the main problem, you know, was the drinking

838
00:40:17,839 --> 00:40:20,239
Speaker 4: and what came after that. And you know, I told

839
00:40:20,239 --> 00:40:23,239
Speaker 4: her I don't have to have a drink again. Like

840
00:40:23,999 --> 00:40:27,759
Speaker 4: That's something I realized recently was that's not really important

841
00:40:27,759 --> 00:40:27,959
Speaker 4: to me.

842
00:40:28,359 --> 00:40:31,319
Speaker 5: I'm ready to like move on from this stage.

843
00:40:31,679 --> 00:40:34,039
Speaker 1: See, I don't think the main problem was the drinking.

844
00:40:34,159 --> 00:40:37,599
Speaker 1: I think the drinking brought out the problem. Yeah, And

845
00:40:37,799 --> 00:40:42,399
Speaker 1: the problem was that you don't trust that someone can

846
00:40:42,479 --> 00:40:46,399
Speaker 1: love you and sustain their love in you, that they're

847
00:40:46,439 --> 00:40:48,559
Speaker 1: not going to lose interest, or that some shiny person

848
00:40:48,599 --> 00:40:52,119
Speaker 1: out there won't take them away from you. And that's

849
00:40:52,159 --> 00:40:55,559
Speaker 1: really the issue that whether it's this relationship or another

850
00:40:55,599 --> 00:40:57,599
Speaker 1: relationship that you're going to have to deal with.

851
00:40:58,039 --> 00:40:59,719
Speaker 5: Yeah, that sounds that sounds right.

852
00:41:00,319 --> 00:41:03,839
Speaker 1: So at this point, is she saying I don't want

853
00:41:03,839 --> 00:41:06,639
Speaker 1: to have any communication for the time being, or is

854
00:41:06,679 --> 00:41:07,679
Speaker 1: there an opening there?

855
00:41:08,319 --> 00:41:10,879
Speaker 4: She wants her space generally on day day, but then

856
00:41:11,759 --> 00:41:14,159
Speaker 4: for example, yesterday she'll send me a picture of like

857
00:41:14,279 --> 00:41:17,239
Speaker 4: a meal she cooked, because you know, we would cook together.

858
00:41:17,319 --> 00:41:21,319
Speaker 4: And like Friday, you know, she sent me like a

859
00:41:21,359 --> 00:41:23,359
Speaker 4: message like saying, oh, like I miss you, but I

860
00:41:23,439 --> 00:41:25,919
Speaker 4: just know I just like I don't think we could be.

861
00:41:25,879 --> 00:41:26,599
Speaker 5: Together right now.

862
00:41:27,599 --> 00:41:29,839
Speaker 4: Not mixed messages, but like sometimes that we see each other,

863
00:41:29,999 --> 00:41:34,519
Speaker 4: like they just casually talking and like bring bringing it back,

864
00:41:34,559 --> 00:41:35,919
Speaker 4: you know, and that's kind of what it gives me

865
00:41:35,999 --> 00:41:38,679
Speaker 4: hope that we could be together again.

866
00:41:39,839 --> 00:41:41,319
Speaker 3: Does she know that you love her too?

867
00:41:42,519 --> 00:41:44,719
Speaker 5: Yes, she says it back to me as well.

868
00:41:45,479 --> 00:41:49,719
Speaker 3: Because I said that in that first chip that was

869
00:41:49,759 --> 00:41:52,599
Speaker 3: never repaired, what happened that first weekend and before it

870
00:41:52,879 --> 00:41:56,559
Speaker 3: was never repaired. And the one way that you repair

871
00:41:56,599 --> 00:41:58,519
Speaker 3: those things is that you would have had to have

872
00:41:58,639 --> 00:42:02,319
Speaker 3: known at that point, like how that happened, how she

873
00:42:02,399 --> 00:42:04,359
Speaker 3: had out us up to do that, What she can

874
00:42:04,399 --> 00:42:06,959
Speaker 3: say to you that will reassure you that she's got

875
00:42:06,959 --> 00:42:09,159
Speaker 3: that under control, that whatever that was won't happen again,

876
00:42:09,319 --> 00:42:13,479
Speaker 3: et cetera. And this current, this past girlfriend is most

877
00:42:13,519 --> 00:42:16,359
Speaker 3: recent X is also in that position of Okay, you

878
00:42:16,599 --> 00:42:19,079
Speaker 3: apologize for it the first time, said it wouldn't happen again,

879
00:42:19,479 --> 00:42:22,999
Speaker 3: happened again, said it wouldn't happen again, happened again four times.

880
00:42:23,519 --> 00:42:26,279
Speaker 3: I'm sure she has her friends and family saying how

881
00:42:26,319 --> 00:42:29,559
Speaker 3: many times does it take? Which means that she doesn't

882
00:42:29,599 --> 00:42:32,199
Speaker 3: have and you might not have iide yet, but she

883
00:42:32,239 --> 00:42:35,719
Speaker 3: doesn't have yet a way to think about this in

884
00:42:35,759 --> 00:42:38,439
Speaker 3: which she has an understanding of what it was that

885
00:42:38,479 --> 00:42:42,679
Speaker 3: triggered it and what steps you are taking and can

886
00:42:42,759 --> 00:42:46,959
Speaker 3: take to truly prevent that from happening again. So she

887
00:42:47,119 --> 00:42:50,439
Speaker 3: would not feel that say for the relationship with you

888
00:42:50,519 --> 00:42:53,719
Speaker 3: until she really had a good idea that oh, you

889
00:42:53,759 --> 00:42:56,239
Speaker 3: know what, maybe that will work to give him a

890
00:42:56,239 --> 00:42:59,999
Speaker 3: handle on it. Maybe that's something that would make a difference.

891
00:43:01,119 --> 00:43:04,479
Speaker 4: So like every time I have a third session, if

892
00:43:04,519 --> 00:43:07,919
Speaker 4: we come through it comes to your realization, like I'll

893
00:43:07,959 --> 00:43:09,959
Speaker 4: just like send their message like letting you know, like hey,

894
00:43:10,039 --> 00:43:12,439
Speaker 4: like this this and this, you know, after like the

895
00:43:12,519 --> 00:43:15,719
Speaker 4: last two weekends, like I I just signed their investment, Like, hey,

896
00:43:15,759 --> 00:43:19,639
Speaker 4: like just you now, like I'm completely sober. She would

897
00:43:19,679 --> 00:43:21,279
Speaker 4: say like, yeah, I'm like proud of you, Like I'm

898
00:43:21,279 --> 00:43:24,239
Speaker 4: happy you're doing all this. I'm keeping her in the

899
00:43:24,279 --> 00:43:26,399
Speaker 4: loop about like the progress that's being made.

900
00:43:26,639 --> 00:43:26,839
Speaker 5: You know.

901
00:43:26,999 --> 00:43:29,239
Speaker 4: I know it's like takes time and it's not going

902
00:43:29,319 --> 00:43:32,639
Speaker 4: to just happen overnight, but she definitely knows how committed

903
00:43:32,679 --> 00:43:35,279
Speaker 4: I am to making any necessary changes.

904
00:43:35,679 --> 00:43:37,999
Speaker 1: And that's a great first step. But I think what

905
00:43:38,039 --> 00:43:40,639
Speaker 1: we're talking about is talking about your inner world with

906
00:43:40,679 --> 00:43:42,519
Speaker 1: her in a way that you haven't yet.

907
00:43:48,239 --> 00:43:51,079
Speaker 3: So Mark, we have some advice for you, and it's

908
00:43:51,119 --> 00:43:57,039
Speaker 3: in two parts. The first part is this, we think that, yes,

909
00:43:57,599 --> 00:44:00,879
Speaker 3: you got traumatized by that first relationship. For sure, it

910
00:44:00,999 --> 00:44:04,639
Speaker 3: was very, very difficult, But we also think that there's

911
00:44:04,959 --> 00:44:09,039
Speaker 3: a fundamental insecurity you have in which you are. We

912
00:44:09,959 --> 00:44:12,519
Speaker 3: that the next guy that comes along, the next shiny

913
00:44:12,559 --> 00:44:15,119
Speaker 3: object that comes along, whoever your ways, will go, oh,

914
00:44:15,199 --> 00:44:18,479
Speaker 3: he's better, let's go over there. There is a basic

915
00:44:18,599 --> 00:44:21,399
Speaker 3: I think in security, you feel that you can be

916
00:44:21,479 --> 00:44:26,199
Speaker 3: loved fully and loyally in a trusting way just for

917
00:44:26,279 --> 00:44:28,239
Speaker 3: who you are and for what you have to offer.

918
00:44:29,999 --> 00:44:33,759
Speaker 3: We also think you have a lot to offer. We

919
00:44:33,799 --> 00:44:36,359
Speaker 3: think you're a good guy, we think you're romantic in

920
00:44:36,399 --> 00:44:40,679
Speaker 3: a very lovely way, and we're not sure that you're

921
00:44:40,679 --> 00:44:44,159
Speaker 3: fully in touch with how much you have to offer.

922
00:44:45,279 --> 00:44:47,199
Speaker 3: And so what we'd like you to do is an

923
00:44:47,199 --> 00:44:52,119
Speaker 3: exercise that's called a self affirmation exercise, And what it

924
00:44:52,199 --> 00:44:55,519
Speaker 3: is is that you write down a list of qualities

925
00:44:55,599 --> 00:44:58,479
Speaker 3: that you know you have that are meaningful and meaningful

926
00:44:58,479 --> 00:45:02,239
Speaker 3: in relationships, like the fact that you're a twenty six

927
00:45:02,599 --> 00:45:05,759
Speaker 3: year old guy but you're going to therapy and you're

928
00:45:05,799 --> 00:45:11,999
Speaker 3: gainfully employed, and you're loyal, and you're emotionally available, and

929
00:45:12,119 --> 00:45:14,439
Speaker 3: you can explore your feelings and you're not afraid of

930
00:45:14,479 --> 00:45:17,839
Speaker 3: talking about the relationship and how each of you feel

931
00:45:17,839 --> 00:45:20,439
Speaker 3: in a situation. So there's a lot you have to

932
00:45:20,479 --> 00:45:24,519
Speaker 3: offer that's not necessarily what most twenty six year old

933
00:45:24,559 --> 00:45:27,119
Speaker 3: guys bring to the table. You do bring some of

934
00:45:27,159 --> 00:45:29,959
Speaker 3: the regular stuff. You're a good looking guy, and you

935
00:45:30,119 --> 00:45:32,319
Speaker 3: know how to have fun, and you can lead, and

936
00:45:32,359 --> 00:45:34,879
Speaker 3: you can organize, and you can be social. You bring

937
00:45:34,919 --> 00:45:37,159
Speaker 3: all of that to the table as well. And so

938
00:45:37,199 --> 00:45:40,239
Speaker 3: we'd like you to make that list as exhaustively as

939
00:45:40,239 --> 00:45:42,199
Speaker 3: you can. But if you want to have one hundred

940
00:45:42,239 --> 00:45:45,999
Speaker 3: items on there, all the better. And then for every

941
00:45:46,119 --> 00:45:48,879
Speaker 3: day in the next week, we'd like you to choose

942
00:45:48,919 --> 00:45:51,319
Speaker 3: one of the items you think is most meaningful and

943
00:45:51,359 --> 00:45:54,399
Speaker 3: that you embody most. You said your journal, we'd like

944
00:45:54,439 --> 00:45:58,439
Speaker 3: you to write a couple of paragraphs at least about

945
00:45:58,559 --> 00:46:02,599
Speaker 3: that item, one a day, about why it's meaningful, how

946
00:46:02,639 --> 00:46:06,159
Speaker 3: you've embodied it or exhibited it in the past, how

947
00:46:06,159 --> 00:46:09,879
Speaker 3: it's been received, how other people have appreciated it in

948
00:46:09,919 --> 00:46:13,479
Speaker 3: the past, and how they might appreciate it in the future.

949
00:46:14,359 --> 00:46:18,159
Speaker 3: And the idea there is to really remind yourself of

950
00:46:18,199 --> 00:46:22,559
Speaker 3: what you have to offer that is strong, that is good,

951
00:46:22,719 --> 00:46:26,959
Speaker 3: that is attractive, so that you feel more secure and

952
00:46:26,999 --> 00:46:30,199
Speaker 3: that you feel like it's going to take a big

953
00:46:30,239 --> 00:46:34,119
Speaker 3: man to outshine me here, so that you don't feel

954
00:46:34,119 --> 00:46:37,079
Speaker 3: that everyone who leans over and whispers something to your

955
00:46:37,119 --> 00:46:39,919
Speaker 3: girlfriend in a bar or in any setting is actually

956
00:46:39,959 --> 00:46:42,439
Speaker 3: a threat. So that's the first part. What do you

957
00:46:42,479 --> 00:46:46,319
Speaker 3: think about that? Yeah, for sure, I think that's something

958
00:46:46,359 --> 00:46:48,279
Speaker 3: I can do. I think it'll be good.

959
00:46:48,799 --> 00:46:51,159
Speaker 1: Great. And then we have a second part to the advice,

960
00:46:51,719 --> 00:46:55,039
Speaker 1: and that's about dealing with the ex girlfriend.

961
00:46:55,719 --> 00:46:58,479
Speaker 5: Can we give her name, sure, Niki.

962
00:46:59,199 --> 00:47:01,159
Speaker 1: So we want you to have a conversation with Niki

963
00:47:01,359 --> 00:47:04,479
Speaker 1: where you start off by saying, you must feel like

964
00:47:04,599 --> 00:47:09,159
Speaker 1: giving me another chance would make you seem like such

965
00:47:09,199 --> 00:47:13,719
Speaker 1: an idiot after the several chances that you've already given me.

966
00:47:15,079 --> 00:47:18,759
Speaker 1: Because you've been through this before in another relationship where

967
00:47:20,119 --> 00:47:24,839
Speaker 1: you ask for something and the person didn't regain your trust,

968
00:47:25,239 --> 00:47:28,359
Speaker 1: you know what that's like yourself, and that you wouldn't

969
00:47:28,359 --> 00:47:30,919
Speaker 1: be asking this of her if you hadn't gone through

970
00:47:30,959 --> 00:47:34,559
Speaker 1: that from the other side yourself. So you understand the

971
00:47:34,599 --> 00:47:38,559
Speaker 1: position that she's in. But the difference here in terms

972
00:47:38,599 --> 00:47:41,599
Speaker 1: of what you're asking now is that you're really going

973
00:47:41,639 --> 00:47:46,319
Speaker 1: through this process of understanding what is happening, and you

974
00:47:46,359 --> 00:47:49,239
Speaker 1: want her to know that you own one hundred percent

975
00:47:50,319 --> 00:47:53,439
Speaker 1: what happened, that she is not responsible for any of it,

976
00:47:54,399 --> 00:47:57,039
Speaker 1: and that not only do you own it, but you're

977
00:47:57,079 --> 00:48:00,559
Speaker 1: starting to understand the real reasons why you did that,

978
00:48:00,679 --> 00:48:03,639
Speaker 1: what's going on, what has been happening for you, and

979
00:48:03,679 --> 00:48:06,359
Speaker 1: that it's not just the drinking. It's not just I

980
00:48:06,399 --> 00:48:08,719
Speaker 1: got drunk and this is what happens when I get drunk.

981
00:48:09,679 --> 00:48:13,439
Speaker 1: It's having this very vulnerable conversation about the real reason,

982
00:48:13,839 --> 00:48:16,719
Speaker 1: and the real reason is you will say to Nikki,

983
00:48:16,999 --> 00:48:20,839
Speaker 1: I have a fear that I am not enough, and

984
00:48:20,879 --> 00:48:23,399
Speaker 1: I didn't realize that I had that fear. And part

985
00:48:23,399 --> 00:48:25,879
Speaker 1: of it is that I was scarred by the relationship before,

986
00:48:26,159 --> 00:48:27,839
Speaker 1: but part of it is that this is just something

987
00:48:27,919 --> 00:48:30,719
Speaker 1: that I need to work on. This is something that

988
00:48:30,799 --> 00:48:33,359
Speaker 1: I come with and that I don't want to bring

989
00:48:33,399 --> 00:48:37,439
Speaker 1: into another relationship, and I certainly wouldn't want to bring

990
00:48:37,479 --> 00:48:41,639
Speaker 1: into a new version of the relationship with you. So

991
00:48:41,719 --> 00:48:45,479
Speaker 1: what I'm asking for is a reboot, given that I

992
00:48:45,599 --> 00:48:48,679
Speaker 1: understand more about where this is coming from, that I

993
00:48:48,759 --> 00:48:52,439
Speaker 1: own it completely, that I am working tirelessly on trying

994
00:48:52,479 --> 00:48:56,039
Speaker 1: to figure this out, and that I also have some

995
00:48:57,039 --> 00:49:01,559
Speaker 1: tools so that I can work on making this not happen.

996
00:49:01,799 --> 00:49:03,919
Speaker 1: Like I know that being in a bar is very

997
00:49:03,919 --> 00:49:06,479
Speaker 1: triggering for me. Right now and that maybe that would

998
00:49:06,519 --> 00:49:07,879
Speaker 1: not be a good place for us to go on

999
00:49:07,919 --> 00:49:11,719
Speaker 1: a date. What I'm proposing is, I would like to

1000
00:49:11,719 --> 00:49:14,199
Speaker 1: do a reboot where we take it one date at

1001
00:49:14,199 --> 00:49:19,199
Speaker 1: a time and we just reevaluate after every date. How

1002
00:49:19,199 --> 00:49:21,839
Speaker 1: did that go? How are we doing? Are we communicating

1003
00:49:21,879 --> 00:49:26,479
Speaker 1: with each other, no rushing, fully communicating, a real chance

1004
00:49:26,559 --> 00:49:29,479
Speaker 1: to get to know each other, not only again but

1005
00:49:29,519 --> 00:49:34,439
Speaker 1: differently from the way we did the first time. And

1006
00:49:34,479 --> 00:49:37,159
Speaker 1: that is my proposal. Would you go on a date

1007
00:49:37,199 --> 00:49:42,639
Speaker 1: with me in this new way? Now she may say yes,

1008
00:49:43,039 --> 00:49:46,559
Speaker 1: in which case the instructions are, if you go on

1009
00:49:46,639 --> 00:49:49,279
Speaker 1: the date with her, we would like you to notice

1010
00:49:49,399 --> 00:49:51,759
Speaker 1: how you're feeling on the date. We want you to

1011
00:49:51,839 --> 00:49:55,439
Speaker 1: monitor yourself. Oh did I just notice a cute guy

1012
00:49:55,519 --> 00:49:58,439
Speaker 1: walk by? And I got anxious? And by the way,

1013
00:49:58,439 --> 00:50:00,159
Speaker 1: we don't want this date to happen in a bar.

1014
00:50:00,519 --> 00:50:02,839
Speaker 1: So it might be that you take a walk together,

1015
00:50:02,959 --> 00:50:05,519
Speaker 1: you go to the beach, you have a picnic, you know,

1016
00:50:05,639 --> 00:50:08,759
Speaker 1: whatever it is, You go to lunch together, and can

1017
00:50:08,799 --> 00:50:11,719
Speaker 1: you have fun together? And can you notice yourself? Can

1018
00:50:11,759 --> 00:50:14,559
Speaker 1: you notice when things are happening before you react to them,

1019
00:50:14,959 --> 00:50:17,079
Speaker 1: doing a lot of self talk? Oh, I noticed that

1020
00:50:17,559 --> 00:50:19,319
Speaker 1: she looked to the right and there was a cute

1021
00:50:19,359 --> 00:50:23,439
Speaker 1: guy there, and you being able to breathe through it

1022
00:50:23,919 --> 00:50:26,519
Speaker 1: right really noticing and when you get back from the date,

1023
00:50:26,559 --> 00:50:30,039
Speaker 1: to journal about what you noticed about you, not about

1024
00:50:30,079 --> 00:50:32,799
Speaker 1: what she did, what you noticed about you, and how

1025
00:50:32,839 --> 00:50:35,719
Speaker 1: you were able to steey more connected to her. Instead

1026
00:50:35,759 --> 00:50:38,119
Speaker 1: of going off into these stories that you create around

1027
00:50:38,239 --> 00:50:40,399
Speaker 1: what might be going on in her mind, we want

1028
00:50:40,439 --> 00:50:42,119
Speaker 1: you to really focus on what's going on in your

1029
00:50:42,199 --> 00:50:46,599
Speaker 1: mind and then challenge some of those beliefs. And if

1030
00:50:46,599 --> 00:50:49,839
Speaker 1: she says no to the date, we would like you

1031
00:50:49,879 --> 00:50:53,799
Speaker 1: to let her know that you completely understand why she

1032
00:50:53,959 --> 00:50:59,799
Speaker 1: is concerned about starting to do this reboot and let

1033
00:50:59,799 --> 00:51:02,079
Speaker 1: her know that at the same time that because you

1034
00:51:02,159 --> 00:51:04,759
Speaker 1: love her so much and because you're coming to all

1035
00:51:04,799 --> 00:51:10,639
Speaker 1: of these realizations that you can't be contact with her

1036
00:51:12,279 --> 00:51:14,399
Speaker 1: if you're not going to be doing this reboot with

1037
00:51:14,479 --> 00:51:17,519
Speaker 1: her at least for the next month, and so you

1038
00:51:17,559 --> 00:51:19,119
Speaker 1: want to go off and do the work that you

1039
00:51:19,199 --> 00:51:22,199
Speaker 1: need to do and let her do whatever she needs

1040
00:51:22,239 --> 00:51:24,199
Speaker 1: to do in terms of the healing she needs to do,

1041
00:51:25,599 --> 00:51:27,879
Speaker 1: and then ask her if it's okay if you could

1042
00:51:27,879 --> 00:51:29,679
Speaker 1: call her in a month just to see where the

1043
00:51:29,719 --> 00:51:32,959
Speaker 1: two of you are and if anything has changed, and

1044
00:51:33,119 --> 00:51:34,879
Speaker 1: you will hopefully have done a lot of work in

1045
00:51:34,919 --> 00:51:36,999
Speaker 1: that time, and maybe she'll have done some healing in

1046
00:51:37,039 --> 00:51:39,479
Speaker 1: that time. And if she says yes, then you'll call

1047
00:51:39,519 --> 00:51:41,039
Speaker 1: her in a month and you'll see can you do

1048
00:51:41,079 --> 00:51:43,919
Speaker 1: the reboot? Then maybe you don't even want to do

1049
00:51:43,959 --> 00:51:45,959
Speaker 1: the reboot. Then maybe you've come to a place where

1050
00:51:46,039 --> 00:51:47,719
Speaker 1: you this is not what you want to do, and

1051
00:51:47,759 --> 00:51:49,959
Speaker 1: maybe she doesn't want to do it. So maybe you

1052
00:51:49,999 --> 00:51:51,879
Speaker 1: both will want the same thing, maybe you will want

1053
00:51:51,879 --> 00:51:54,399
Speaker 1: different things, or maybe you both will say we don't

1054
00:51:54,399 --> 00:51:57,439
Speaker 1: want to pursue this, but it will take you out

1055
00:51:57,439 --> 00:52:00,559
Speaker 1: of that limbo that is very I think anxiety provoking

1056
00:52:00,639 --> 00:52:02,599
Speaker 1: about like, well, what she doing? Is she on the apps?

1057
00:52:02,639 --> 00:52:04,279
Speaker 1: Is she dating other people? What does that mean that

1058
00:52:04,319 --> 00:52:06,399
Speaker 1: she sent me this photo of dinner she was cooking.

1059
00:52:06,999 --> 00:52:09,519
Speaker 1: It will clarify something in a very direct way. What

1060
00:52:09,599 --> 00:52:11,759
Speaker 1: is our status right now? And what are we doing

1061
00:52:11,799 --> 00:52:14,199
Speaker 1: with each other? Does that make sense?

1062
00:52:14,879 --> 00:52:15,959
Speaker 5: Yeah? Yeah, that sounds good.

1063
00:52:16,439 --> 00:52:19,719
Speaker 3: One quick addition, we want you to emphasize to her

1064
00:52:20,799 --> 00:52:23,519
Speaker 3: that Nikki, I'm not asking you to trust me, because

1065
00:52:23,559 --> 00:52:27,279
Speaker 3: you can't right now. I'm asking you to give me

1066
00:52:27,319 --> 00:52:31,759
Speaker 3: a chance to gain your trust. That's really all I'm

1067
00:52:31,799 --> 00:52:34,519
Speaker 3: asking And either I'll succeed and I think I might,

1068
00:52:35,519 --> 00:52:37,719
Speaker 3: or I won't. But I'm not asking you to come

1069
00:52:37,759 --> 00:52:39,519
Speaker 3: in blindly. I'm asking you to come in as a

1070
00:52:39,559 --> 00:52:42,439
Speaker 3: skeptic and give me a chance to regain your trust.

1071
00:52:42,879 --> 00:52:45,479
Speaker 1: And the philosophy behind the one date at a time

1072
00:52:46,199 --> 00:52:49,559
Speaker 1: is a little bit like people with addictions. They can't

1073
00:52:49,599 --> 00:52:53,119
Speaker 1: say I will never use again, but they can say

1074
00:52:53,239 --> 00:52:55,119
Speaker 1: I'm going to take this one day at a time.

1075
00:52:55,199 --> 00:52:56,799
Speaker 1: And so you're going to take it one date at

1076
00:52:56,839 --> 00:52:59,479
Speaker 1: a time as you're working on this, where you can

1077
00:53:00,479 --> 00:53:04,439
Speaker 1: manage that smaller chunk of on this one date, can

1078
00:53:04,479 --> 00:53:07,999
Speaker 1: I really tune into myself? Can I monitor my reactions

1079
00:53:08,039 --> 00:53:10,479
Speaker 1: to things? And then you do again on another day.

1080
00:53:10,639 --> 00:53:12,319
Speaker 1: And so you're not saying to her, I will never

1081
00:53:12,359 --> 00:53:14,519
Speaker 1: do this again. You're saying, if I do this kind

1082
00:53:14,519 --> 00:53:17,759
Speaker 1: of work, there's a much higher likelihood that I will

1083
00:53:17,759 --> 00:53:18,559
Speaker 1: never do this again.

1084
00:53:19,359 --> 00:53:21,119
Speaker 5: Yeah, awesome, Okay.

1085
00:53:20,879 --> 00:53:23,039
Speaker 1: Great, we look forward to hearing back from you.

1086
00:53:23,719 --> 00:53:25,919
Speaker 4: Awesome guys that I really appreciate the time. Thank you

1087
00:53:25,959 --> 00:53:26,639
Speaker 4: guys for the help.

1088
00:53:36,159 --> 00:53:38,279
Speaker 1: So I think this is one of those situations where

1089
00:53:38,799 --> 00:53:41,239
Speaker 1: you think it's a discreete issue like should I get

1090
00:53:41,239 --> 00:53:46,199
Speaker 1: back together with this girlfriend? But there are some underlying

1091
00:53:46,639 --> 00:53:50,239
Speaker 1: issue that is driving it. And here we have this

1092
00:53:50,359 --> 00:53:53,479
Speaker 1: idea that the other shoe is going to drop. First

1093
00:53:53,479 --> 00:53:55,639
Speaker 1: it happened with his father, the other shoe dropped, and

1094
00:53:55,639 --> 00:54:00,279
Speaker 1: then it happens with the first girlfriend. And he has

1095
00:54:00,319 --> 00:54:03,679
Speaker 1: this belief that you can't get too comfortable because the

1096
00:54:03,679 --> 00:54:06,679
Speaker 1: minute you get too comfortable, something bad will happen.

1097
00:54:06,959 --> 00:54:09,039
Speaker 3: And I think that what happened with his father was

1098
00:54:09,039 --> 00:54:13,039
Speaker 3: actually really important here because I think for Mark, the

1099
00:54:13,119 --> 00:54:15,799
Speaker 3: idea that if the person that you know so well,

1100
00:54:15,959 --> 00:54:18,519
Speaker 3: your father, you didn't know this about them, and you

1101
00:54:18,559 --> 00:54:21,479
Speaker 3: can suddenly be taken out of school and given this bombshell,

1102
00:54:22,319 --> 00:54:25,879
Speaker 3: then how can you trust people? And I think that

1103
00:54:26,119 --> 00:54:29,559
Speaker 3: combined with this insecurity that he came with that doesn't

1104
00:54:29,599 --> 00:54:32,359
Speaker 3: recognize his own strengths and what he has to offer,

1105
00:54:32,999 --> 00:54:35,399
Speaker 3: I think those things together, the dad, the experience with

1106
00:54:35,479 --> 00:54:39,119
Speaker 3: a girlfriend, and that insecurity have really set him up

1107
00:54:39,759 --> 00:54:42,439
Speaker 3: to have these issues in relationships, and he's going to

1108
00:54:42,479 --> 00:54:45,399
Speaker 3: have them until he deals with them. And I'm so

1109
00:54:45,519 --> 00:54:47,759
Speaker 3: glad that he's in therapy, and I'm so glad that

1110
00:54:47,799 --> 00:54:50,079
Speaker 3: he's really taking it seriously. You can see this is

1111
00:54:50,079 --> 00:54:52,919
Speaker 3: someone who wants to figure this out and who wants

1112
00:54:52,959 --> 00:54:53,679
Speaker 3: to do the work.

1113
00:54:54,039 --> 00:54:56,719
Speaker 1: That's true. After the second time that this happened, he

1114
00:54:56,759 --> 00:54:59,079
Speaker 1: went to therapy. His girlfriend said you need to go

1115
00:54:59,119 --> 00:55:01,599
Speaker 1: to therapy, and instead of hemming and huying or saying

1116
00:55:01,639 --> 00:55:03,519
Speaker 1: I'll just cut back on my drinking, he said yes,

1117
00:55:03,959 --> 00:55:07,079
Speaker 1: and he went to therapy. And I think that speaks volumes.

1118
00:55:07,119 --> 00:55:10,079
Speaker 1: And I hope that when he calls her, whether or

1119
00:55:10,119 --> 00:55:11,919
Speaker 1: not she decides to go on a date with him,

1120
00:55:12,079 --> 00:55:16,199
Speaker 1: that she can really take in what he's saying, because

1121
00:55:16,199 --> 00:55:17,759
Speaker 1: I think it's going to take a lot of courage

1122
00:55:17,799 --> 00:55:20,319
Speaker 1: for him to do that, and so I hope that

1123
00:55:20,359 --> 00:55:29,079
Speaker 1: it's received. Well, you're listening to Dear Therapists for my

1124
00:55:29,119 --> 00:55:43,319
Speaker 1: Heart Radio. We'll be back after a short break. So, guy,

1125
00:55:43,319 --> 00:55:45,319
Speaker 1: we heard back from Mark, and let's hear what happened

1126
00:55:45,319 --> 00:55:45,639
Speaker 1: for him.

1127
00:55:46,319 --> 00:55:48,079
Speaker 5: Hi, Guy, Laurie hope all as well.

1128
00:55:48,879 --> 00:55:54,599
Speaker 4: So since our talk, I worked on the journaling exercise. Honestly,

1129
00:55:54,679 --> 00:56:00,079
Speaker 4: I found it to be extremely helpful. You know, these

1130
00:56:01,479 --> 00:56:04,719
Speaker 4: last few weeks have been extremely hard on me. You know,

1131
00:56:04,799 --> 00:56:09,959
Speaker 4: I've been very down on myself pretty much every day.

1132
00:56:10,359 --> 00:56:13,799
Speaker 4: It's just a hard time, and I just blamed myself

1133
00:56:14,119 --> 00:56:18,199
Speaker 4: every day for ruining the relationship, you know, something that

1134
00:56:18,359 --> 00:56:25,719
Speaker 4: was so great, something that I thought would be forever, and.

1135
00:56:24,159 --> 00:56:27,159
Speaker 5: My actions and my words closed too much harm.

1136
00:56:27,839 --> 00:56:33,439
Speaker 4: And yeah, it's been rough, but the journaling was great,

1137
00:56:33,679 --> 00:56:36,519
Speaker 4: you know, a nice little reminder that, you know, just

1138
00:56:36,519 --> 00:56:40,279
Speaker 4: something to pick myself up as opposed to putting myself down,

1139
00:56:40,319 --> 00:56:43,639
Speaker 4: which is something I just like found myself doing a

1140
00:56:43,679 --> 00:56:49,399
Speaker 4: lot recently. In terms of the conversation with NICKI, we

1141
00:56:49,439 --> 00:56:53,319
Speaker 4: had a pretty long conversation. I told her, I feel

1142
00:56:53,399 --> 00:56:56,959
Speaker 4: I told everything, and unfortunately she just did not want

1143
00:56:56,999 --> 00:56:59,399
Speaker 4: to go on a date. She just said she still

1144
00:56:59,439 --> 00:57:04,799
Speaker 4: needed space and that she was like upset and just

1145
00:57:04,839 --> 00:57:06,759
Speaker 4: can't get over like the words I said there.

1146
00:57:07,319 --> 00:57:10,319
Speaker 5: I don't blame her at all. I know it.

1147
00:57:10,719 --> 00:57:14,319
Speaker 4: You know that I heard her and it wasn't right

1148
00:57:14,399 --> 00:57:16,719
Speaker 4: and that's just not something you say to someone you

1149
00:57:16,759 --> 00:57:17,239
Speaker 4: care about.

1150
00:57:17,319 --> 00:57:23,239
Speaker 5: But hopefully could revisit this in a month, and.

1151
00:57:24,919 --> 00:57:28,199
Speaker 4: You know, maybe the space makes her realize something. I

1152
00:57:28,279 --> 00:57:31,279
Speaker 4: just can't give up on the hope, So we'll see

1153
00:57:31,319 --> 00:57:34,039
Speaker 4: what happens. Thank you guys so much for the help.

1154
00:57:35,199 --> 00:57:37,959
Speaker 4: I really appreciate it, and I did find it to

1155
00:57:37,999 --> 00:57:38,839
Speaker 4: be very helpful.

1156
00:57:39,359 --> 00:57:40,079
Speaker 5: Take care guys.

1157
00:57:44,999 --> 00:57:47,559
Speaker 1: It sounds like things are still really rough for him,

1158
00:57:48,039 --> 00:57:50,679
Speaker 1: and yet he found the conversation helpful. And I think

1159
00:57:50,679 --> 00:57:54,759
Speaker 1: that's because when we understand more about our role in

1160
00:57:54,799 --> 00:57:57,759
Speaker 1: a situation, and when we get more clear about what

1161
00:57:57,799 --> 00:58:01,479
Speaker 1: it's really about, it gives us a path forward. It

1162
00:58:01,559 --> 00:58:03,919
Speaker 1: might not be a path forward with NICKI, but it

1163
00:58:03,919 --> 00:58:05,079
Speaker 1: gives us a path forward.

1164
00:58:05,279 --> 00:58:08,039
Speaker 3: And I think that he needs a little bit of

1165
00:58:08,119 --> 00:58:13,599
Speaker 3: time to really employ self forgiveness. Sometimes you need to

1166
00:58:13,599 --> 00:58:16,799
Speaker 3: get a little bit more distant from things before you

1167
00:58:16,879 --> 00:58:19,919
Speaker 3: can look back and go, yes, I made mistakes, which

1168
00:58:19,919 --> 00:58:22,919
Speaker 3: he can see and accepts, and that he needs to

1169
00:58:22,959 --> 00:58:25,279
Speaker 3: be able to get to that place of self forgiveness.

1170
00:58:25,479 --> 00:58:27,839
Speaker 1: Well, right, I think the self forgiveness is so important

1171
00:58:27,879 --> 00:58:31,759
Speaker 1: because you can't make progress when you are self flagellating.

1172
00:58:32,519 --> 00:58:34,479
Speaker 1: And I don't think he can really do the work

1173
00:58:34,519 --> 00:58:36,639
Speaker 1: that he needs to do when he's in this place

1174
00:58:36,679 --> 00:58:39,439
Speaker 1: of blaming himself. You know, there's this saying hope is

1175
00:58:39,479 --> 00:58:42,679
Speaker 1: not a good strategy, so he needs to do more

1176
00:58:42,679 --> 00:58:46,039
Speaker 1: than hope. He keeps talking about hope, but I think

1177
00:58:46,079 --> 00:58:47,639
Speaker 1: what he needs to do is he needs to do

1178
00:58:47,679 --> 00:58:49,639
Speaker 1: the work and I think he's finally gotten the wake

1179
00:58:49,719 --> 00:58:52,079
Speaker 1: up call and now he just needs to act on it.

1180
00:58:52,359 --> 00:58:55,519
Speaker 3: So Mark, if you're listening, this is the time to

1181
00:58:55,639 --> 00:58:59,119
Speaker 3: practice self forgiveness and to really do that work.

1182
00:59:02,879 --> 00:59:05,799
Speaker 1: Next week, a single woman deals with shame about getting

1183
00:59:05,799 --> 00:59:07,759
Speaker 1: a late start in dating and sex.

1184
00:59:08,639 --> 00:59:11,239
Speaker 7: I guess it's great to get into a relationship in

1185
00:59:11,279 --> 00:59:14,879
Speaker 7: a sense because then people ask you like about your history,

1186
00:59:14,999 --> 00:59:19,959
Speaker 7: and it's embarrassing one to be fifty three and single.

1187
00:59:20,239 --> 00:59:20,399
Speaker 1: You know.

1188
00:59:20,439 --> 00:59:23,519
Speaker 7: When you mentioned that to people, they're always like shocked,

1189
00:59:23,639 --> 00:59:27,319
Speaker 7: and I've had people say, oh gosh, what's wrong with you?

1190
00:59:27,599 --> 00:59:30,999
Speaker 1: Hey, fellow travelers, if you're enjoying our podcast each week,

1191
00:59:31,199 --> 00:59:33,639
Speaker 1: don't forget to subscribe for free so that you don't

1192
00:59:33,639 --> 00:59:37,279
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1193
00:59:37,279 --> 00:59:39,479
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1194
00:59:39,519 --> 00:59:42,999
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1195
00:59:43,399 --> 00:59:45,359
Speaker 3: If you have a dilemma you'd like to discuss with

1196
00:59:45,439 --> 00:59:49,159
Speaker 3: us by go smooth, email us at Lorian Guy at

1197
00:59:49,279 --> 00:59:50,839
Speaker 3: iHeartMedia dot com.

1198
00:59:51,319 --> 00:59:54,959
Speaker 1: Our executive producer is Noel Brown. We're produced and edited

1199
00:59:54,999 --> 00:59:59,159
Speaker 1: by Mike Johns, Josh Fisher, and Chris childs Our interns

1200
00:59:59,199 --> 01:00:02,719
Speaker 1: are Doret Corwin and Silver Lifton. Special thanks to Alison

1201
01:00:02,759 --> 01:00:06,879
Speaker 1: Wright and to our podcast fairy godmother Katie Kuric. We

1202
01:00:06,919 --> 01:00:08,919
Speaker 1: can't wait to see you at next week's session.

1203
01:00:09,479 --> 01:00:11,559
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