1
00:00:08,440 --> 00:00:19,479
Speaker 1: Body Backs with Joseph Scott Morgan. I was thinking the

2
00:00:19,560 --> 00:00:23,000
Speaker 1: other day, back when I was in elementary school, one

3
00:00:23,000 --> 00:00:26,599
Speaker 1: of the biggest thrills of the years when the sixth

4
00:00:26,600 --> 00:00:30,159
Speaker 1: graders began to sell candy, these big candy bars, and

5
00:00:30,200 --> 00:00:32,840
Speaker 1: they were trying to fund a trip so the sixth

6
00:00:32,880 --> 00:00:36,680
Speaker 1: grade could take a trip to Washington, d c. Altogether.

7
00:00:37,760 --> 00:00:41,440
Speaker 1: Man is, candy bars were great, had raisins and nuts

8
00:00:41,440 --> 00:00:43,880
Speaker 1: in them. You could just get plain chocolate if you wanted.

9
00:00:45,440 --> 00:00:47,040
Speaker 1: And it is a treat when you're a child and

10
00:00:47,040 --> 00:00:50,560
Speaker 1: you get a candy bar. But the case I'm gonna

11
00:00:50,600 --> 00:00:54,240
Speaker 1: talk to you about today involving a precious little girl

12
00:00:54,360 --> 00:01:00,240
Speaker 1: named a man of Harden. You got candy bar, she

13
00:01:00,360 --> 00:01:03,760
Speaker 1: was forbidden from getting candy bars by our family, and

14
00:01:03,880 --> 00:01:08,039
Speaker 1: ultimately the fact that she chose to eat that candy

15
00:01:08,040 --> 00:01:15,679
Speaker 1: bar led her death. I'm Joseph Scott Morgan and this

16
00:01:16,560 --> 00:01:21,440
Speaker 1: is body Backs with me again today. Is my good

17
00:01:21,480 --> 00:01:26,679
Speaker 1: buddy Jackie Howard, executive producer of Crime Stories with Nancy Grace,

18
00:01:28,000 --> 00:01:31,479
Speaker 1: tell us about this precious lot angel Savannah. Savannah Harden

19
00:01:31,680 --> 00:01:35,640
Speaker 1: lived with her grandmother and her stepmother. There had been

20
00:01:35,680 --> 00:01:41,280
Speaker 1: ongoing divorce and custody issues between Savannah's parents and Savannah

21
00:01:41,400 --> 00:01:45,760
Speaker 1: had a medical condition called bladder reflux. The condition was

22
00:01:45,800 --> 00:01:51,720
Speaker 1: exacerbated by catheine. But Savannah loved chocolate. But because she

23
00:01:51,800 --> 00:01:55,600
Speaker 1: had this medical condition, she was forbidden from eating chocolate

24
00:01:55,640 --> 00:01:58,880
Speaker 1: because no one wanted to make her condition worse. However,

25
00:01:59,040 --> 00:02:01,840
Speaker 1: Savannah was a give a chocolate bar and then she

26
00:02:02,080 --> 00:02:05,600
Speaker 1: lied to her family about whether or not she ate it.

27
00:02:06,040 --> 00:02:09,880
Speaker 1: When it became known that she did indeed eat chocolate,

28
00:02:10,240 --> 00:02:14,040
Speaker 1: the punishment for that, given to her by her grandmother

29
00:02:14,800 --> 00:02:19,000
Speaker 1: was to run. They made this child run around the house,

30
00:02:19,240 --> 00:02:27,400
Speaker 1: continuously carrying logs for over three hours. Savannah seized and

31
00:02:27,440 --> 00:02:30,799
Speaker 1: then died. The family called nine one E m t

32
00:02:31,000 --> 00:02:34,000
Speaker 1: s tried to resuscitate her, but Savannah did die at

33
00:02:34,000 --> 00:02:39,240
Speaker 1: the hospital after running for over three hours. Let's talk

34
00:02:39,840 --> 00:02:45,239
Speaker 1: about this kind of exercise on an average person, let

35
00:02:45,280 --> 00:02:49,120
Speaker 1: alone a nine year old. You know, I was I

36
00:02:49,160 --> 00:02:52,160
Speaker 1: was giving some some thought to this Jackie when I

37
00:02:52,240 --> 00:02:55,880
Speaker 1: began considering this case for body bugs, and I had

38
00:02:55,919 --> 00:02:59,799
Speaker 1: to think, you know, years ago, when the Olympics were

39
00:03:00,160 --> 00:03:03,560
Speaker 1: We're in Atlanta outside of the Medical Examiner's office. I

40
00:03:03,560 --> 00:03:06,840
Speaker 1: remember was a Sunday morning and they had the route

41
00:03:07,240 --> 00:03:10,320
Speaker 1: for the men's marathon came right by the office. It

42
00:03:10,440 --> 00:03:12,320
Speaker 1: was one of the final days the Olympics, and I

43
00:03:12,360 --> 00:03:15,240
Speaker 1: was watching those fellows run, and they run like Gazelle's,

44
00:03:15,400 --> 00:03:18,399
Speaker 1: you know, And I thought about it for a long time.

45
00:03:18,440 --> 00:03:19,799
Speaker 1: I've been in the Army. I used to have to

46
00:03:19,880 --> 00:03:22,720
Speaker 1: run great distances, you know, when I was a young man.

47
00:03:24,520 --> 00:03:27,800
Speaker 1: But I began think about what this little girl went through.

48
00:03:28,080 --> 00:03:33,440
Speaker 1: And this is three hours of constant movement. And just

49
00:03:33,520 --> 00:03:37,480
Speaker 1: to kind of frame it for you, the the women's

50
00:03:37,680 --> 00:03:42,000
Speaker 1: marathon record, now this is a record, and this is

51
00:03:42,040 --> 00:03:44,720
Speaker 1: for women that are in really shape, it really great shape.

52
00:03:45,000 --> 00:03:47,880
Speaker 1: These are adult women. The world record is two hours

53
00:03:47,880 --> 00:03:50,920
Speaker 1: and fifteen minutes. And that that's that's running twenty six

54
00:03:50,920 --> 00:03:53,600
Speaker 1: point five miles, Jackie. Just let that number settle in

55
00:03:53,640 --> 00:03:58,440
Speaker 1: with you. This little baby had run for three solid hours,

56
00:03:58,440 --> 00:04:01,160
Speaker 1: and granted she was running around the yard, but the

57
00:04:01,360 --> 00:04:05,760
Speaker 1: entire time, the entire time she was running out there

58
00:04:06,800 --> 00:04:12,000
Speaker 1: the grandmother who by the way, her name's Joyce Hardened Garrard.

59
00:04:13,240 --> 00:04:18,640
Speaker 1: She's out in the yard smoking cigarettes and yelling at

60
00:04:18,680 --> 00:04:21,680
Speaker 1: this little girl to pick up the pace, keep moving,

61
00:04:21,680 --> 00:04:24,280
Speaker 1: as if she's some kind of drill sergeant, And like

62
00:04:24,360 --> 00:04:27,720
Speaker 1: you had mentioned, she had her pick up sticks of firewood.

63
00:04:28,760 --> 00:04:33,719
Speaker 1: And the running is bad enough, but when they finally

64
00:04:33,800 --> 00:04:38,280
Speaker 1: began to examine Savannah's arms, you could actually see the

65
00:04:38,320 --> 00:04:43,280
Speaker 1: little abraided areas that line up with the grain of

66
00:04:43,320 --> 00:04:45,680
Speaker 1: this wood that she was forced to carry. You know,

67
00:04:45,760 --> 00:04:48,160
Speaker 1: the mark would leave a mark if it's split wood.

68
00:04:48,240 --> 00:04:50,640
Speaker 1: You've got the grain of the wood that has splinters

69
00:04:50,640 --> 00:04:53,880
Speaker 1: in it and everything. And you could see these little abraided,

70
00:04:54,080 --> 00:04:59,240
Speaker 1: focal abraided areas on the on on her forearms and

71
00:04:59,600 --> 00:05:01,480
Speaker 1: a pre shape what she was having to do. So

72
00:05:01,560 --> 00:05:03,280
Speaker 1: let's just think about this just for a second. And

73
00:05:03,360 --> 00:05:05,800
Speaker 1: only do you have somebody telling you to stay a

74
00:05:05,800 --> 00:05:08,800
Speaker 1: perpetual motion, but you're also having to carry weight. You're

75
00:05:08,839 --> 00:05:12,240
Speaker 1: not just carrying your body weight for this protracted period

76
00:05:12,279 --> 00:05:15,800
Speaker 1: of time, but you're also cradling this wood that is

77
00:05:16,600 --> 00:05:22,400
Speaker 1: causing a strain on your upper body as well. So

78
00:05:22,480 --> 00:05:24,359
Speaker 1: you can buy those two things, and what do you

79
00:05:24,440 --> 00:05:27,720
Speaker 1: get at the end, Well, any kind of stored energy

80
00:05:27,800 --> 00:05:29,960
Speaker 1: that you have in your body, like any kind of

81
00:05:30,000 --> 00:05:34,320
Speaker 1: CLOrk intake that you've taken on in the past few hours,

82
00:05:34,920 --> 00:05:37,400
Speaker 1: is being burned up at a much more rapid rate.

83
00:05:37,800 --> 00:05:40,640
Speaker 1: In addition to that, all of the fluids in your body,

84
00:05:41,320 --> 00:05:43,599
Speaker 1: all of those things at a molecular level, like the

85
00:05:43,640 --> 00:05:46,279
Speaker 1: electro lights that keep your body in balance, all of

86
00:05:46,320 --> 00:05:49,640
Speaker 1: those are being consumed. So with each step that she

87
00:05:49,800 --> 00:05:54,159
Speaker 1: takes in this protracted period of time, her life is

88
00:05:54,400 --> 00:05:58,120
Speaker 1: literally kind of ebbing away because there's no replenishment. Jack

89
00:05:58,920 --> 00:06:02,520
Speaker 1: This child was never allowed to stop. She was never

90
00:06:02,560 --> 00:06:07,120
Speaker 1: given a break until finally she fell to the ground crying, Jackie,

91
00:06:08,240 --> 00:06:12,200
Speaker 1: and then she ceased. The imagery that you're describing there

92
00:06:12,400 --> 00:06:15,960
Speaker 1: is very difficult to hear. But let's back up and

93
00:06:16,000 --> 00:06:21,560
Speaker 1: discuss what her physical ailment was that started this problem

94
00:06:21,600 --> 00:06:27,039
Speaker 1: with her grandmother. She had bladder reflex What does that mean. Well,

95
00:06:27,040 --> 00:06:31,239
Speaker 1: it's a it's a condition that that many uh little

96
00:06:31,279 --> 00:06:34,560
Speaker 1: girls suffer from. You you also have older women as well,

97
00:06:34,600 --> 00:06:38,760
Speaker 1: but it's a it's an it impacts the bladder to

98
00:06:38,800 --> 00:06:43,720
Speaker 1: the point where you can't tolerate things uh like caffeine.

99
00:06:44,000 --> 00:06:49,080
Speaker 1: In particular, it creates the sensation of needing to avoid

100
00:06:49,360 --> 00:06:54,240
Speaker 1: your bladder at all time's and caffeine just further exacerbates

101
00:06:54,279 --> 00:06:57,120
Speaker 1: this and some of the things that it can lead to.

102
00:06:57,880 --> 00:07:02,479
Speaker 1: Our urinary track infection. Uh, you can develop the fever.

103
00:07:02,760 --> 00:07:04,599
Speaker 1: You know, as anybody has had a U t I,

104
00:07:04,839 --> 00:07:07,760
Speaker 1: they can attest to a fever because sometimes that's associated,

105
00:07:07,760 --> 00:07:10,720
Speaker 1: particularly if it gets out of hand, you you've also

106
00:07:10,760 --> 00:07:14,360
Speaker 1: got pain and burning. You know, it comes along with urination.

107
00:07:14,840 --> 00:07:18,280
Speaker 1: There's frequent urination. But this, this is this is what

108
00:07:18,440 --> 00:07:23,120
Speaker 1: I think is the real problem here and what is

109
00:07:23,160 --> 00:07:28,080
Speaker 1: the real issue. I think it's the fact that if

110
00:07:28,080 --> 00:07:31,520
Speaker 1: she ate chocolate, it's going to prompt her to urinate.

111
00:07:32,400 --> 00:07:36,200
Speaker 1: She's eight years old and I think she had missed

112
00:07:36,240 --> 00:07:38,840
Speaker 1: the bed. I think that that's what had been happening,

113
00:07:39,120 --> 00:07:45,360
Speaker 1: and it was an inconvenience. And sometimes because of this

114
00:07:45,360 --> 00:07:50,040
Speaker 1: this bladder reflux condition, you don't necessarily have to have

115
00:07:50,320 --> 00:07:53,760
Speaker 1: chocolate on board for it to occur. You can just

116
00:07:53,800 --> 00:07:57,760
Speaker 1: spontaneously urinate during the night. You're not aware of it,

117
00:07:57,760 --> 00:08:02,000
Speaker 1: particularly at this age. And it's Uh, it's a problem

118
00:08:02,000 --> 00:08:06,120
Speaker 1: that impacts a lot of people. Joe, is bladder reflux

119
00:08:06,520 --> 00:08:11,560
Speaker 1: treatable in general? Well, I think that it can be

120
00:08:11,840 --> 00:08:17,040
Speaker 1: diet controlled, and that that's really the general advice that

121
00:08:17,200 --> 00:08:20,640
Speaker 1: physicians give. They have they have people stay away from

122
00:08:20,720 --> 00:08:23,560
Speaker 1: things that have caffeine. You know, you can't have sodas,

123
00:08:24,120 --> 00:08:27,360
Speaker 1: You're not gonna be able to have coffee, uh, in

124
00:08:27,400 --> 00:08:32,640
Speaker 1: anything that essentially contains high high levels of caffeine in it,

125
00:08:32,720 --> 00:08:35,040
Speaker 1: and so it's die controlled. In many times, what will

126
00:08:35,080 --> 00:08:39,160
Speaker 1: happen is as children, for children in particular, they will

127
00:08:39,160 --> 00:08:41,600
Speaker 1: start off with this condition and as they continue to

128
00:08:41,640 --> 00:08:46,640
Speaker 1: progress through their development, Um, it will kind of resolve

129
00:08:46,800 --> 00:08:50,240
Speaker 1: over a period of time. I suppose that there are

130
00:08:50,720 --> 00:08:56,120
Speaker 1: some types of surgical procedures that that could be done. Um,

131
00:08:56,320 --> 00:08:58,800
Speaker 1: but for the most part, they're trying to control us

132
00:08:58,840 --> 00:09:01,840
Speaker 1: with diet without having to go through the extreme steps

133
00:09:01,880 --> 00:09:05,920
Speaker 1: of of surgical intervention. And many times, like I said,

134
00:09:05,960 --> 00:09:08,760
Speaker 1: it's a developmental issue. From a physical standpoint, it will

135
00:09:08,800 --> 00:09:35,280
Speaker 1: eventually resolve. To say that this is a grim case,

136
00:09:35,440 --> 00:09:38,320
Speaker 1: I think it's an understatement, but I'd kind of like

137
00:09:38,400 --> 00:09:41,080
Speaker 1: to go back and talk about the specific events of

138
00:09:41,080 --> 00:09:44,240
Speaker 1: the day, kind of the timeline and and what actually

139
00:09:44,280 --> 00:09:48,679
Speaker 1: occurred leading up to this seizure event. Joe, you were

140
00:09:48,720 --> 00:09:53,840
Speaker 1: telling us earlier that Savannah was not allowed to stop

141
00:09:54,400 --> 00:09:58,680
Speaker 1: and that she was not given water while she was running.

142
00:09:59,520 --> 00:10:02,520
Speaker 1: We know, oh that the body needs water or number

143
00:10:02,559 --> 00:10:06,520
Speaker 1: one on a hot day, Um, you'll be dehydrated and

144
00:10:06,600 --> 00:10:08,720
Speaker 1: that in itself can lead to seizures. Is that what

145
00:10:08,800 --> 00:10:12,160
Speaker 1: happened to this little girl? Yeah? Actually it is Jackie.

146
00:10:12,240 --> 00:10:14,880
Speaker 1: And you know, like I had said earlier, not only

147
00:10:14,960 --> 00:10:18,719
Speaker 1: you are you burning, say calories that you take on

148
00:10:18,880 --> 00:10:22,040
Speaker 1: in the food that we eat, or maybe some caloric

149
00:10:22,200 --> 00:10:25,600
Speaker 1: rich drinks that you're taking on board. Uh, you think

150
00:10:25,600 --> 00:10:28,200
Speaker 1: about carbohydrates and those things that you burn in the

151
00:10:28,240 --> 00:10:30,640
Speaker 1: short term, you know that kind of give you an energy.

152
00:10:31,080 --> 00:10:34,360
Speaker 1: Certainly that chocolate bar that she had eaten, you know

153
00:10:34,640 --> 00:10:38,920
Speaker 1: immediately prior to to these events taking place, that would

154
00:10:39,000 --> 00:10:42,520
Speaker 1: be a heavy sugar and carb load, so that would

155
00:10:42,559 --> 00:10:46,920
Speaker 1: burn off relatively quickly. But any kind of long term uh,

156
00:10:47,280 --> 00:10:50,000
Speaker 1: food that you might have in your body or caloric

157
00:10:50,200 --> 00:10:53,960
Speaker 1: storage that you have would would burn off. But then

158
00:10:54,000 --> 00:10:57,960
Speaker 1: you couple this with this absence of water. Are being

159
00:10:58,120 --> 00:11:02,520
Speaker 1: rehydrated in this particular case, Well, what are you losing

160
00:11:02,559 --> 00:11:06,880
Speaker 1: through that? Well, as I mentioned earlier, you're losing electrolytes.

161
00:11:06,880 --> 00:11:10,720
Speaker 1: And electrolytes are a variety of things, most notably you know,

162
00:11:10,760 --> 00:11:14,840
Speaker 1: we've got sodium and potassium in particular, and when you

163
00:11:14,920 --> 00:11:18,640
Speaker 1: become dehydrated, those are leaving the body as well. And

164
00:11:18,720 --> 00:11:22,839
Speaker 1: so how do they leave the body? Will primarily uh

165
00:11:23,000 --> 00:11:28,319
Speaker 1: they're leaving the body uh through through actual sweating perspiration,

166
00:11:28,920 --> 00:11:32,160
Speaker 1: and then they're they're vaporizing and they're gone. Uh so,

167
00:11:32,240 --> 00:11:34,520
Speaker 1: and your body is processing these they need them at

168
00:11:34,520 --> 00:11:39,040
Speaker 1: a molecular level, these electrolytes in order to maintain balance

169
00:11:39,720 --> 00:11:43,720
Speaker 1: within our metabolic system, to keep the heart functioning correctly,

170
00:11:44,080 --> 00:11:47,840
Speaker 1: keep the brain functioning correctly. You can have kidney severe

171
00:11:47,960 --> 00:11:52,319
Speaker 1: kidney problems, and that's generally where where you'll first begin

172
00:11:52,400 --> 00:11:55,640
Speaker 1: to sense dehydration. And folks might be familiar with this.

173
00:11:55,679 --> 00:12:00,960
Speaker 1: I'll give you an example. When people avoid or you're innate, normally,

174
00:12:01,720 --> 00:12:05,319
Speaker 1: um urine will have kind of a yellow color to it.

175
00:12:05,840 --> 00:12:08,520
Speaker 1: One of the things that the kidneys will actually do

176
00:12:08,920 --> 00:12:13,000
Speaker 1: relative to dehydration. It will take those fluids that have

177
00:12:13,200 --> 00:12:17,800
Speaker 1: been processed already kind of recycle them if there's no

178
00:12:17,880 --> 00:12:21,360
Speaker 1: water uptake. And when you do finally avoid in a

179
00:12:21,440 --> 00:12:25,240
Speaker 1: state of dehydration, the urine actually turns a darker brown.

180
00:12:25,400 --> 00:12:27,559
Speaker 1: And people will see this and they'll make note of that.

181
00:12:27,600 --> 00:12:29,960
Speaker 1: They say that to their doctor regularly, and doctor will

182
00:12:30,000 --> 00:12:32,520
Speaker 1: automatically say, well, you're dehydrated, you need to take on

183
00:12:32,600 --> 00:12:37,440
Speaker 1: more more fluids. But the absence of sodium in your

184
00:12:37,480 --> 00:12:43,360
Speaker 1: system is a major problem because it it literally impacts

185
00:12:43,720 --> 00:12:47,920
Speaker 1: the way your heart functions and the way your brain functions.

186
00:12:48,000 --> 00:12:52,840
Speaker 1: Even people don't don't really understand that. So um, as

187
00:12:52,880 --> 00:12:56,720
Speaker 1: you become dehydrated, you're losing these electrolytes. And here's here's

188
00:12:56,760 --> 00:13:00,200
Speaker 1: kind of an interesting little aside a lot of people

189
00:13:00,200 --> 00:13:04,960
Speaker 1: don't understand, is the brain itself has a composition of

190
00:13:05,080 --> 00:13:11,439
Speaker 1: over seventy water. Isn't that something over seventy water? So

191
00:13:11,640 --> 00:13:18,079
Speaker 1: as your body is literally being starved of water and

192
00:13:18,240 --> 00:13:25,199
Speaker 1: sodium and potassium and these other electrolytes, your brain is

193
00:13:25,400 --> 00:13:27,760
Speaker 1: you know, you can just imagine the brain is actually

194
00:13:28,040 --> 00:13:32,199
Speaker 1: wondering what's going on. And so with the brain going

195
00:13:32,480 --> 00:13:36,320
Speaker 1: through the state of dehydration, some of the things that

196
00:13:36,440 --> 00:13:42,400
Speaker 1: will actually begin to happen is that people will become delirious. Um,

197
00:13:42,520 --> 00:13:46,600
Speaker 1: they won't recognize people. Many times, they'll they'll kind of

198
00:13:46,640 --> 00:13:50,280
Speaker 1: go into this kind of zombie like state where they're

199
00:13:50,360 --> 00:13:53,640
Speaker 1: they're looking off in the distance and the dehydration persists

200
00:13:53,720 --> 00:13:57,560
Speaker 1: for a protracted period of time. You'll see the eyes

201
00:13:58,040 --> 00:14:01,960
Speaker 1: actually kind of uh sink into the sockets a bit.

202
00:14:02,640 --> 00:14:06,080
Speaker 1: Uh So you're losing you're losing water. And it is

203
00:14:07,320 --> 00:14:11,319
Speaker 1: a life giving substance that not just contains the molecular

204
00:14:11,360 --> 00:14:14,840
Speaker 1: composition of H two O, but it also contains electrolytes,

205
00:14:14,880 --> 00:14:18,160
Speaker 1: and so the brain begins to shut down, your ability

206
00:14:18,240 --> 00:14:20,920
Speaker 1: to speak. Many times, your speech will become slurred in

207
00:14:21,000 --> 00:14:24,680
Speaker 1: all of these sorts of things. And with Savannah, one

208
00:14:24,720 --> 00:14:28,120
Speaker 1: of the things that occurred is that while she was

209
00:14:28,400 --> 00:14:33,000
Speaker 1: running around this home over and over and over again,

210
00:14:33,080 --> 00:14:37,360
Speaker 1: just cycling over and over again, right before she collapsed,

211
00:14:37,560 --> 00:14:41,720
Speaker 1: she was weeping uncontrollably, and it's at that point in

212
00:14:41,720 --> 00:14:44,200
Speaker 1: time that it was witness that she fell to the

213
00:14:44,240 --> 00:14:48,080
Speaker 1: ground and went into a seizure. Now, according to the

214
00:14:48,080 --> 00:14:54,280
Speaker 1: reports from the scene, the grandmother then marched over to Savannah,

215
00:14:54,320 --> 00:14:57,760
Speaker 1: who's laying on the ground essentially unresponsive, probably in a

216
00:14:57,840 --> 00:15:01,160
Speaker 1: state of rigidity, maybe as her tongue clenched to this

217
00:15:01,280 --> 00:15:03,640
Speaker 1: classic science as you think when you see a seizure,

218
00:15:04,920 --> 00:15:08,720
Speaker 1: and she's yelling at her, get up, get moving, move

219
00:15:08,800 --> 00:15:12,320
Speaker 1: on like that. There's even one report that she swatted

220
00:15:12,320 --> 00:15:14,240
Speaker 1: her while she was laying on the ground, and at

221
00:15:14,320 --> 00:15:16,680
Speaker 1: that point in time that the step mother called nine

222
00:15:16,720 --> 00:15:22,680
Speaker 1: one one. The seizure Joe. Was it caused by lack

223
00:15:22,720 --> 00:15:28,120
Speaker 1: of water, lack of electro lyts, lack of sodium and potassium,

224
00:15:28,600 --> 00:15:33,000
Speaker 1: or a combination of all of that caused the seizure.

225
00:15:33,400 --> 00:15:36,840
Speaker 1: It wasn't a combination of all those things. And as

226
00:15:36,840 --> 00:15:40,000
Speaker 1: it kind of comes together, there's a condition that's referred

227
00:15:40,000 --> 00:15:46,520
Speaker 1: to as hyponeutremia. And as a result, hyponeutremia actually results

228
00:15:47,360 --> 00:15:51,680
Speaker 1: uh from this absence of sodium in the system. That

229
00:15:51,960 --> 00:15:56,160
Speaker 1: these low sodium levels which have been documented over the

230
00:15:56,160 --> 00:16:01,880
Speaker 1: course of savannah subsequent hospital stay and and her her

231
00:16:01,920 --> 00:16:07,120
Speaker 1: autopsy as well. And when the condition of hypernatremia sets in,

232
00:16:09,240 --> 00:16:12,640
Speaker 1: you'll actually have patients that will seize and then the

233
00:16:12,680 --> 00:16:17,160
Speaker 1: next step beyond the seizure is actually they slip into

234
00:16:17,200 --> 00:16:20,840
Speaker 1: a coma at that point in time. And then of course,

235
00:16:21,000 --> 00:16:26,280
Speaker 1: once you get to coma, when in a medical context, um,

236
00:16:26,440 --> 00:16:31,240
Speaker 1: once hyperntremia has led to the seizures and the comma,

237
00:16:31,320 --> 00:16:34,120
Speaker 1: it's really really difficult to pull these patients back from

238
00:16:34,120 --> 00:16:39,480
Speaker 1: the doorstep of death. Are sodium and potassium and electro

239
00:16:39,600 --> 00:16:43,160
Speaker 1: light or they just an element of an electro light?

240
00:16:43,240 --> 00:16:45,240
Speaker 1: You know, you and I have talked in depth off

241
00:16:45,880 --> 00:16:48,880
Speaker 1: Mike about what an electro light is as We've discussed

242
00:16:48,960 --> 00:16:53,920
Speaker 1: various cases and I really honestly still don't understand it. Yeah,

243
00:16:53,960 --> 00:17:01,600
Speaker 1: the sodium and potassium are in fact um electric lights. Uh,

244
00:17:01,640 --> 00:17:08,040
Speaker 1: but uh there there are actually other electrolytes as well. Uh.

245
00:17:08,119 --> 00:17:12,800
Speaker 1: You have magnesium and calcium and chloride essentially that that

246
00:17:12,840 --> 00:17:17,639
Speaker 1: makes up the five electrolytes that we consider in particularly

247
00:17:17,640 --> 00:17:23,200
Speaker 1: in in treatment of patients. Um as these are kind

248
00:17:23,200 --> 00:17:25,680
Speaker 1: of bleeding out of their bodies and you're preached to

249
00:17:25,840 --> 00:17:32,200
Speaker 1: on a daily basis in the dietary supplement market, exercise recommendations,

250
00:17:32,800 --> 00:17:36,440
Speaker 1: these sorts of things about replenishing electrolytes. There's an entire

251
00:17:36,560 --> 00:17:40,199
Speaker 1: industry that is made up of these sports drinks that

252
00:17:40,240 --> 00:17:44,400
Speaker 1: are out there and they're supposed to be infused with electrolytes.

253
00:17:44,480 --> 00:17:46,679
Speaker 1: That gives you an ideas to how critical they are

254
00:17:46,840 --> 00:17:51,200
Speaker 1: to keep us in balance throughout systemically, Uh so that

255
00:17:51,400 --> 00:17:54,960
Speaker 1: our heart can in fact function. This keeps open kind

256
00:17:54,960 --> 00:17:58,080
Speaker 1: of these neural pathways and this is all going on

257
00:17:58,119 --> 00:18:01,679
Speaker 1: at a molecular level. We're very gently balanced, you know,

258
00:18:01,720 --> 00:18:06,399
Speaker 1: we're we're very resilient and rugged, you know, our our

259
00:18:06,640 --> 00:18:11,879
Speaker 1: our persons are. But when you subject a child a child,

260
00:18:11,920 --> 00:18:16,359
Speaker 1: a mere child, to this kind of rigor that she's

261
00:18:16,400 --> 00:18:18,879
Speaker 1: having to go through. All of these systems, all of

262
00:18:18,920 --> 00:18:26,080
Speaker 1: these elements begin to become um diminished to the point

263
00:18:26,240 --> 00:18:29,439
Speaker 1: where you can't draw back from it. There's nothing that

264
00:18:29,560 --> 00:18:33,119
Speaker 1: you can do unless you can get this individual prior

265
00:18:33,160 --> 00:18:35,760
Speaker 1: to going in to a seizure, if you can hook

266
00:18:35,800 --> 00:18:38,600
Speaker 1: him up to an ivy, certainly, orally, if you have

267
00:18:38,720 --> 00:18:42,399
Speaker 1: something on hand like an electroclight replacement, do that, or

268
00:18:42,440 --> 00:18:46,280
Speaker 1: a minimum, give them water. But of course, in Savannah's case,

269
00:18:46,720 --> 00:18:49,199
Speaker 1: she was never given an opportunity to rest or to

270
00:18:49,240 --> 00:19:14,880
Speaker 1: take on in fluids. I don't know if the grandmother

271
00:19:14,920 --> 00:19:17,960
Speaker 1: and Savannah's case actually knew what she was stepping off

272
00:19:18,040 --> 00:19:22,919
Speaker 1: into when she began to subject Savannah to what I

273
00:19:23,000 --> 00:19:25,800
Speaker 1: called torture. It was a protracted period of torture with

274
00:19:25,840 --> 00:19:29,359
Speaker 1: a small child, but you know, in the end it

275
00:19:29,720 --> 00:19:33,199
Speaker 1: wound up killing her. I don't think most people have

276
00:19:33,280 --> 00:19:39,199
Speaker 1: an idea that you can exercise to death. Savannah's is

277
00:19:39,280 --> 00:19:43,840
Speaker 1: not the only case where we have seen children forced

278
00:19:43,880 --> 00:19:46,280
Speaker 1: to exercise. We have a little boy, a six year

279
00:19:46,320 --> 00:19:50,040
Speaker 1: old whose father called him fat and made him run

280
00:19:50,240 --> 00:19:54,280
Speaker 1: on a treadmill and essentially the same thing happened at

281
00:19:54,280 --> 00:19:58,880
Speaker 1: the Little Boy collapse and and he died. So we've

282
00:19:58,960 --> 00:20:01,000
Speaker 1: talked about the effect on the body and the heart,

283
00:20:01,080 --> 00:20:05,119
Speaker 1: But what happens to the brain, Joe, during all of

284
00:20:05,160 --> 00:20:09,240
Speaker 1: this exercise and the loss of electro lights. If the

285
00:20:09,280 --> 00:20:13,639
Speaker 1: heart is affected this significantly, what happens to the brain?

286
00:20:14,240 --> 00:20:16,960
Speaker 1: You know, Jackie, all all of our systems are you know,

287
00:20:17,000 --> 00:20:21,840
Speaker 1: are interconnected. They're not standalone systems there. They have an

288
00:20:21,880 --> 00:20:26,560
Speaker 1: interdependency upon one another in order to function. So with

289
00:20:27,359 --> 00:20:30,920
Speaker 1: a case like Savannah's, you know, her her kidneys would

290
00:20:30,920 --> 00:20:33,760
Speaker 1: have begun to shut down. She would not have been

291
00:20:33,800 --> 00:20:38,800
Speaker 1: able to process UH urine waste in a normal manner,

292
00:20:39,240 --> 00:20:43,200
Speaker 1: just like her her intestines, particularly people that have dehydration,

293
00:20:43,240 --> 00:20:47,120
Speaker 1: they'll they'll actually begin to experience severe stomach pains and

294
00:20:47,600 --> 00:20:51,960
Speaker 1: diarrhea and cramps and all these horrible things. The liver

295
00:20:52,320 --> 00:20:55,720
Speaker 1: is actually compromised as well the heart. You can actually

296
00:20:55,760 --> 00:20:59,280
Speaker 1: have UM an electrical episode with the heart where the

297
00:20:59,280 --> 00:21:04,000
Speaker 1: heart uh actually begins to spasm and can lead to death.

298
00:21:04,040 --> 00:21:06,840
Speaker 1: But I don't think there's any organ in our body

299
00:21:06,960 --> 00:21:12,360
Speaker 1: that is more critically impacted. And then the brain, and

300
00:21:12,480 --> 00:21:16,320
Speaker 1: you know, as I mentioned, the brain itself UH is

301
00:21:16,600 --> 00:21:21,200
Speaker 1: UH is roughly seventy water and composition. I think that people,

302
00:21:21,320 --> 00:21:22,880
Speaker 1: you know, just sit back and they think the brain

303
00:21:23,000 --> 00:21:26,880
Speaker 1: is just one huge piece of tissue. It's not. It's

304
00:21:26,920 --> 00:21:30,879
Speaker 1: not gray matter and white matter and giri and sulsa

305
00:21:30,920 --> 00:21:35,200
Speaker 1: and all those anatomical parts that we talked about at autopsy. UM.

306
00:21:35,920 --> 00:21:39,399
Speaker 1: The brain is composed of water and so absent water

307
00:21:39,760 --> 00:21:43,399
Speaker 1: which Savannah obviously wasn't taking on board, and with water,

308
00:21:43,520 --> 00:21:48,159
Speaker 1: you know, comes those life giving electrolytes. The brain's response

309
00:21:49,000 --> 00:21:54,320
Speaker 1: is to actually swell. Now, we have swelling that occurs

310
00:21:54,440 --> 00:21:58,639
Speaker 1: under many different conditions when particularly when we're doing UH

311
00:21:58,880 --> 00:22:01,800
Speaker 1: when we're examining case. Is from a forensics perspective, I've

312
00:22:01,800 --> 00:22:04,040
Speaker 1: been in the more any number of times over the

313
00:22:04,119 --> 00:22:06,840
Speaker 1: years where you'll have patients that will present that have

314
00:22:06,960 --> 00:22:09,480
Speaker 1: had gunshot wounds, that have been struck in the head,

315
00:22:09,600 --> 00:22:13,040
Speaker 1: and what happens is that you'll get this inner cranial

316
00:22:13,119 --> 00:22:16,680
Speaker 1: pressure that rises and they're swelling inside the skull. This

317
00:22:16,760 --> 00:22:21,439
Speaker 1: is this is the skull is very unforgiving. Skull is rigid.

318
00:22:21,720 --> 00:22:23,840
Speaker 1: We don't think about our skull most of the time.

319
00:22:24,160 --> 00:22:26,760
Speaker 1: People like me do when it comes to trauma, and

320
00:22:26,760 --> 00:22:29,959
Speaker 1: when it comes to events like Savannah's kit, it doesn't

321
00:22:30,080 --> 00:22:33,440
Speaker 1: give at all. It is a rigid, bony structure. So

322
00:22:33,520 --> 00:22:37,159
Speaker 1: as this very delicate, soft tissue of the brain is

323
00:22:37,320 --> 00:22:44,400
Speaker 1: literally strangulated um from lack of water, it actually begins

324
00:22:44,440 --> 00:22:48,760
Speaker 1: to swell. It becomes a demitus. The cells are literally

325
00:22:48,840 --> 00:22:54,399
Speaker 1: screaming out in there. And when a brain begins to swell,

326
00:22:54,800 --> 00:22:59,200
Speaker 1: there's nowhere for it to go. Sometimes in cases of trauma,

327
00:22:59,600 --> 00:23:04,399
Speaker 1: you'll see that surgeons will place into skulls were referred

328
00:23:04,400 --> 00:23:08,359
Speaker 1: to as burr holes. They'll drill little holes in the

329
00:23:08,400 --> 00:23:11,800
Speaker 1: skull to relieve pressure, and they'll insert an inter cranial

330
00:23:12,480 --> 00:23:18,800
Speaker 1: pressure monitor. But talking about Savannah, these events with her

331
00:23:19,480 --> 00:23:23,800
Speaker 1: occurred so quickly, and there was they were in a

332
00:23:23,920 --> 00:23:27,840
Speaker 1: very rural area, and when they finally got to the

333
00:23:27,920 --> 00:23:32,120
Speaker 1: scene and drove her to the hospital, which was some

334
00:23:32,200 --> 00:23:36,639
Speaker 1: distance away in an ambulance, she's uh, she's in a

335
00:23:36,720 --> 00:23:43,040
Speaker 1: comatose state. At this point, she's essentially neurologically unresponsive. They

336
00:23:43,080 --> 00:23:45,560
Speaker 1: made the determination that they were going to try to

337
00:23:45,600 --> 00:23:48,280
Speaker 1: stabilize her as best they could, and all the while

338
00:23:48,320 --> 00:23:51,600
Speaker 1: that clock is ticking, her brain is swelling a more

339
00:23:51,760 --> 00:23:54,720
Speaker 1: and more and more, until finally they made the critical

340
00:23:54,760 --> 00:23:57,440
Speaker 1: decision to put her on a life light and get

341
00:23:57,440 --> 00:24:01,639
Speaker 1: her to Children's Hospital in Birmingham, Alabama. But by that

342
00:24:01,760 --> 00:24:06,040
Speaker 1: time it was it was essentially too late because so

343
00:24:06,119 --> 00:24:08,240
Speaker 1: much damage had been done. And that's that's one of

344
00:24:08,240 --> 00:24:13,280
Speaker 1: the problems with with this intercranial pressure, the swelling of

345
00:24:13,280 --> 00:24:16,280
Speaker 1: the brain that occurs. If it cannot be alleviated in

346
00:24:16,320 --> 00:24:20,640
Speaker 1: any way, you've now crossed over that boundary to where

347
00:24:20,680 --> 00:24:23,160
Speaker 1: you cannot recover. And even if you could still keep

348
00:24:23,200 --> 00:24:27,400
Speaker 1: them alive, they're gonna be so compromised neurologically that their

349
00:24:27,480 --> 00:24:30,600
Speaker 1: quality of life is going to be really compromised. And

350
00:24:30,680 --> 00:24:36,040
Speaker 1: so that's that's the decision. The decision that Savannah's grandmother

351
00:24:36,160 --> 00:24:40,879
Speaker 1: made that day at that house wound up in the

352
00:24:40,960 --> 00:24:46,160
Speaker 1: death of Savannah. And it wasn't a a quick death, Jackie.

353
00:24:46,440 --> 00:24:51,280
Speaker 1: It was torturous, to say the very least. What clues

354
00:24:51,680 --> 00:24:56,720
Speaker 1: should the adults have noticed to say maybe this is

355
00:24:56,760 --> 00:25:02,400
Speaker 1: not a good idea. What physiological events would they have noticed?

356
00:25:03,040 --> 00:25:05,280
Speaker 1: I think that the first thing is is that just

357
00:25:05,359 --> 00:25:08,359
Speaker 1: at a baseline understanding, you understand that human beings can't

358
00:25:08,359 --> 00:25:11,720
Speaker 1: go for for three hours at a time, particularly little ones.

359
00:25:12,119 --> 00:25:15,520
Speaker 1: It's just it's it's not acceptable. You you have people

360
00:25:15,560 --> 00:25:18,680
Speaker 1: in special forces training that don't go go for this

361
00:25:18,840 --> 00:25:23,320
Speaker 1: protracted period of time, having to carry wood of all

362
00:25:23,400 --> 00:25:27,520
Speaker 1: things in their arms. Even those rugged types, you know,

363
00:25:27,600 --> 00:25:30,200
Speaker 1: they get a break at some point in time. How

364
00:25:30,280 --> 00:25:34,000
Speaker 1: much more so for a little precious child. An adult

365
00:25:34,080 --> 00:25:36,680
Speaker 1: should have been fully aware of that. I think that

366
00:25:36,800 --> 00:25:40,119
Speaker 1: an adult that was certainly maybe in tune with their

367
00:25:40,160 --> 00:25:44,080
Speaker 1: own body and understanding what movement meant at this level,

368
00:25:44,480 --> 00:25:48,960
Speaker 1: would know that that that would compromise you pretty quickly. Um.

369
00:25:49,119 --> 00:25:52,320
Speaker 1: And the fact that the child is wailing out in

370
00:25:52,359 --> 00:25:55,720
Speaker 1: the yard, she's begging, you know the entire time. You know,

371
00:25:55,760 --> 00:25:57,960
Speaker 1: there there's a there's a point in time when I

372
00:25:58,040 --> 00:26:00,240
Speaker 1: think that with the discipline of children, were child drown

373
00:26:01,000 --> 00:26:02,600
Speaker 1: you know, they're begging to get out of the corner

374
00:26:02,640 --> 00:26:05,800
Speaker 1: if they're in time out. Okay, they're being punished. I

375
00:26:05,840 --> 00:26:08,080
Speaker 1: don't want to do this anymore. I've learned my lesson.

376
00:26:08,280 --> 00:26:12,119
Speaker 1: Please let me return to the fold here. That's you know,

377
00:26:12,200 --> 00:26:14,320
Speaker 1: you got that kind of begging. But when you see

378
00:26:14,359 --> 00:26:17,280
Speaker 1: a child that is in literally, Jackie, we're talking about

379
00:26:17,280 --> 00:26:21,840
Speaker 1: in perpetual motion for three hours non stop. And you know,

380
00:26:22,080 --> 00:26:24,800
Speaker 1: an interesting little side here is that one of the

381
00:26:24,840 --> 00:26:29,359
Speaker 1: neighbors actually stated that they witnessed the child running around

382
00:26:29,359 --> 00:26:31,840
Speaker 1: in the yard. Now, you know, it's one thing to

383
00:26:31,920 --> 00:26:35,440
Speaker 1: look over in your neighbor's yard and see children playing.

384
00:26:35,680 --> 00:26:38,639
Speaker 1: But you know, when you I can only imagine the

385
00:26:38,680 --> 00:26:41,439
Speaker 1: horror of this neighbor. They they're probably thinking back to

386
00:26:41,560 --> 00:26:44,680
Speaker 1: that moment in tom You know, they see this little

387
00:26:44,680 --> 00:26:48,720
Speaker 1: girl continuing to do revolutions out in the yard. Maybe

388
00:26:48,760 --> 00:26:51,080
Speaker 1: they didn't notice the wood that she was, you know,

389
00:26:51,160 --> 00:26:53,960
Speaker 1: toting around in her arms, but they could see her

390
00:26:54,119 --> 00:26:57,000
Speaker 1: going around and round and round. You walk away for

391
00:26:57,240 --> 00:26:58,879
Speaker 1: from the window for maybe an hour or so, you

392
00:26:58,960 --> 00:27:03,440
Speaker 1: come back, she's still motion. How how is it that

393
00:27:03,600 --> 00:27:06,000
Speaker 1: those that are in control of Savannah, and I mean

394
00:27:06,080 --> 00:27:09,080
Speaker 1: her grandmother and her stepmother that was physically there at

395
00:27:09,080 --> 00:27:12,520
Speaker 1: the scene, how could they not have been aware? The

396
00:27:12,560 --> 00:27:16,719
Speaker 1: stepmother allegedly was playing on her phone and was on

397
00:27:16,760 --> 00:27:20,679
Speaker 1: her laptop the entire time. She never interdicted the situation.

398
00:27:20,800 --> 00:27:24,440
Speaker 1: She never stepped in. She never stepped in and said

399
00:27:25,000 --> 00:27:27,920
Speaker 1: this needs to stop right now. And if it had

400
00:27:27,960 --> 00:27:30,320
Speaker 1: been stopped, there's a good chance and you sat that

401
00:27:30,400 --> 00:27:32,560
Speaker 1: child in the in the shade. You gave her a

402
00:27:32,560 --> 00:27:35,720
Speaker 1: cold drink of water, there's a good chance she might recovered,

403
00:27:35,880 --> 00:27:38,600
Speaker 1: but not in this case. So would her body have

404
00:27:38,760 --> 00:27:42,840
Speaker 1: been flushed, would she have been sweating, or would she

405
00:27:42,920 --> 00:27:46,360
Speaker 1: been hot or cold? Because I do know that sometimes

406
00:27:46,359 --> 00:27:51,280
Speaker 1: with heat exhaustion, the body actually feels cold as opposed

407
00:27:51,320 --> 00:27:54,480
Speaker 1: to being hot. You're right on the money, Jackie. You're

408
00:27:54,600 --> 00:27:56,040
Speaker 1: right on the money. And that's one of the things

409
00:27:56,080 --> 00:27:58,919
Speaker 1: that happens. They people will become flushed, and at some

410
00:27:58,960 --> 00:28:01,720
Speaker 1: point in time, it's like you have an infinite supply

411
00:28:02,359 --> 00:28:06,359
Speaker 1: of fluids in your body. And and in Savannah's case,

412
00:28:06,920 --> 00:28:10,840
Speaker 1: her her skin uh would have been cool to the

413
00:28:10,880 --> 00:28:15,080
Speaker 1: touch at that moment time. Uh, it would have felt clammy,

414
00:28:15,160 --> 00:28:18,639
Speaker 1: but not wet. You know why, because all of the

415
00:28:18,680 --> 00:28:22,040
Speaker 1: fluid in her body had evaporated at that point in time.

416
00:28:22,040 --> 00:28:25,160
Speaker 1: And again you have to go back to Uh. If

417
00:28:25,280 --> 00:28:27,160
Speaker 1: if they had just taken the time to stop her

418
00:28:27,840 --> 00:28:30,600
Speaker 1: and speak to her for a moment, you probably would

419
00:28:30,600 --> 00:28:33,800
Speaker 1: have seen that she may have been dizzy. Um, she

420
00:28:33,920 --> 00:28:38,280
Speaker 1: may have been slightly disoriented. Sometimes people that are suffering

421
00:28:38,320 --> 00:28:43,560
Speaker 1: from severe dehydration have a very difficult time of recognizing

422
00:28:43,640 --> 00:28:48,040
Speaker 1: even familiar people, and that's that's that's a big tale.

423
00:28:48,080 --> 00:28:50,400
Speaker 1: I mean, just think about it. We have family members.

424
00:28:50,440 --> 00:28:52,120
Speaker 1: If you walk up to a family member and you

425
00:28:52,160 --> 00:28:54,240
Speaker 1: say something to them and they look at you blankly,

426
00:28:54,320 --> 00:28:57,560
Speaker 1: like they can't recall your name, you know something's going on.

427
00:28:57,960 --> 00:29:05,680
Speaker 1: But that assessment was never made. And man's case. I'm

428
00:29:05,760 --> 00:29:13,560
Speaker 1: Joseph Scott Morgan and this is body backsh