WEBVTT - Finnish President Alexander Stubb Talks Greenland

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<v Speaker 1>Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news. Are things going to

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<v Speaker 1>settle down?

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<v Speaker 2>The President threatening to impose additional tariffs on some European

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<v Speaker 2>allies supporting Denmark while he pursues Greenland. The Finland President

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<v Speaker 2>Alexander Stoop joins us. Now for more, Mi's the president.

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<v Speaker 3>Good to see you, Nice to see you.

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<v Speaker 1>Thanks for always making some time for us.

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<v Speaker 2>Look, I would never traditionally start a conversation like this

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<v Speaker 2>with a head of state, but given the news flow

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<v Speaker 2>and the headlines and the pictures of text we've seen

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<v Speaker 2>over the past few days, I have to get a

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<v Speaker 2>better understanding from you directly. I understand you were on

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<v Speaker 2>an exchange with the President of the United States where

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<v Speaker 2>the President almost explicitly linked his failure to win the

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<v Speaker 2>Nobel Priest Prize with a more assertive.

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<v Speaker 1>Stance on Greenland. Did that actually happen?

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<v Speaker 4>Well, yeah, I mean we do message a lot with

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<v Speaker 4>the President and sometimes I message together with the Prime

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<v Speaker 4>Minister of Norway, you and US Guard Sturt. So yes,

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<v Speaker 4>the response was as has been report, and this is

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<v Speaker 4>what frank diplomacy is all about. This is quite normal

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<v Speaker 4>in our engagements behind the scenes, and it's good that

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<v Speaker 4>we have these conversations.

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<v Speaker 2>You'd have to forgive me. But for many people, they

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<v Speaker 2>don't feel that it's normal to connect the failure to

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<v Speaker 2>win a prize with a more assertive stance over someone

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<v Speaker 2>else's territory.

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<v Speaker 3>It is normal to have direct talks.

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<v Speaker 4>Of course, on the Greenland issue, I disagree with the President.

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<v Speaker 4>I think now what we need to do is to

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<v Speaker 4>bring down the temperature. We need to find an off

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<v Speaker 4>ramp and probably create some kind of a process which will.

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<v Speaker 3>Strengthen Arctic security.

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<v Speaker 4>And sort of at the end of the tunnel, I

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<v Speaker 4>wish we could have a NATO summit in Ankara where

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<v Speaker 4>we all agree on a new Arctic security structure.

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<v Speaker 3>I come from an Arctic country.

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<v Speaker 4>I come from a country which has one of the

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<v Speaker 4>biggest militaries in Europe.

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<v Speaker 3>I come from a.

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<v Speaker 4>Country which has the best know how in Arctic defense.

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<v Speaker 4>So these are the types of world things that we

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<v Speaker 4>need to work with with the Alliance, including the United

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<v Speaker 4>States Prision.

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<v Speaker 5>Trump has been talking about Greenland since twenty nineteen. What

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<v Speaker 5>makes it different this time? What does an off ramp

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<v Speaker 5>actually look like?

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<v Speaker 4>I think there's a short term scenario here in this

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<v Speaker 4>is a long term, short term is to basically de

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<v Speaker 4>escalate the language, and I hope we'll see some of

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<v Speaker 4>that here in Dubos here today, tomorrow and the day

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<v Speaker 4>after tomorrow.

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<v Speaker 3>And then the second one.

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<v Speaker 4>Is a long term strategic thinking on Okay, is this

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<v Speaker 4>an issue of sovereignty or is it an issue of security?

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<v Speaker 4>I hope that it is an issue of security, and

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<v Speaker 4>then we start looking at how we can beef up

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<v Speaker 4>security in the Arctic region. Now, the latest conversations that

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<v Speaker 4>I've had about this subject in the past two to

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<v Speaker 4>three hours, this is how fast things are changing in

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<v Speaker 4>the new foreign policy world. Gives me a little bit

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<v Speaker 4>of hope that we'll find a way.

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<v Speaker 1>It feels like a live negotiation.

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<v Speaker 5>The president a lot of the time does come out

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<v Speaker 5>with something very aggressive to get to an endpoint, which

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<v Speaker 5>really is just a better deal. I liken this to NATO.

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<v Speaker 5>At one point there was reports you want to pull

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<v Speaker 5>out NATO, but really at the end of the day,

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<v Speaker 5>you wanted Europe to spend more.

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<v Speaker 3>Is that how you view this through that lens? Well,

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<v Speaker 3>first of all.

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<v Speaker 4>The president of the United States has a capacity to

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<v Speaker 4>deal with the multiplicity of issues at the same time.

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<v Speaker 4>I mean, you only look at what's happened this year Venezuela, Iran, Greenland, Gaza,

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<v Speaker 4>the Peace Board and many other things at the same time.

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<v Speaker 4>And of course add on to that domestic issues on

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<v Speaker 4>the NATO issue. If someone would have told me at

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<v Speaker 4>the seventy fifth anniversary of NATO in Washington, DC in

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<v Speaker 4>twenty twenty four, I think it was that we are

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<v Speaker 4>looking at increasing our defense expenditure to five percent next year.

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<v Speaker 3>Hour, please go and see a.

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<v Speaker 4>Doctor or consult the Foreign Affairs magazine, because this is

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<v Speaker 4>not going to happen now.

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<v Speaker 3>If at the end of.

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<v Speaker 4>The day, after this what could be called rhetorical escalation,

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<v Speaker 4>we come up with a stronger Arctic security, then that

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<v Speaker 4>is good. And obviously we're seeing foreign policy done in

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<v Speaker 4>a slightly different way from what we're used to. But

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<v Speaker 4>you know, I'm a Finn. I thought you'd ask the

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<v Speaker 4>first question that you know, what do you do? I said,

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<v Speaker 4>in these kinds of situations, you take a deep breath,

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<v Speaker 4>you go in the sauna and you take an ice bath.

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<v Speaker 4>And that's what you're a missing. That's what we're missing.

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<v Speaker 5>Your embassy sauna where they have had diplomatic dealings done

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<v Speaker 5>quite a scene.

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<v Speaker 3>You can have the ice bath right there. Look, then

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<v Speaker 3>there is this.

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<v Speaker 6>Question, mister President, about why European nations were sending more

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<v Speaker 6>troops to Greenland over the past couple of days in

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<v Speaker 6>the past week. At first it was to beef up

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<v Speaker 6>and show that they were serious about the security, not what.

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<v Speaker 3>It was about at all.

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<v Speaker 6>Okay, okay, So whether it was taken by President Trump

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<v Speaker 6>was I.

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<v Speaker 4>Think there was probably a misunderstanding or not. Probably there was.

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<v Speaker 4>So basically, let me explain. There is something called Arctic Endurance,

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<v Speaker 4>which is basically a n to a training exercise. That

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<v Speaker 4>exercise has eight different components, all of which the United

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<v Speaker 4>States is present.

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<v Speaker 3>We were asked by our allies.

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<v Speaker 4>To go and do a reconnaissance mission to check out

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<v Speaker 4>the territory, the landscape, and how it's going to work out.

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<v Speaker 4>This is completely normal procedure and obviously I can't talk

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<v Speaker 4>about the specifics of that exercise, but trust me, it

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<v Speaker 4>is not trying to protect anything westbound.

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<v Speaker 3>It's more eastbound.

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<v Speaker 6>At what point do you feel like you're just fielding

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<v Speaker 6>calls because you thought of as a Trump whisperer. I mean,

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<v Speaker 6>what are you telling your colleagues and other European nations

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<v Speaker 6>how to deal with mystery.

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<v Speaker 3>Well, I think you know, diplomacy.

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<v Speaker 4>A lot of times when people analyze diplomacy, they look

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<v Speaker 4>at it on a state to state relations. You know,

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<v Speaker 4>what's the values, interest, power, culture, history, geography, But they

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<v Speaker 4>forget that a lot of it is actually about person

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<v Speaker 4>to person engagement, and the fact that I'm able to

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<v Speaker 4>communicate directly with the president puts me, as President of

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<v Speaker 4>Filing into good position. But I have no illusions about

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<v Speaker 4>being a Trump whisperer. You know, it's he's the President

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<v Speaker 4>of the United States. He decides completely for himself. I

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<v Speaker 4>throw out a couple of ideas, sometimes he likes them,

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<v Speaker 4>sometimes he doesn't, and then I throw ideas to our

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<v Speaker 4>other European allies and friends.

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<v Speaker 3>That's what diplomas is about.

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<v Speaker 1>When did you last week?

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<v Speaker 3>Oh, we spoke.

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<v Speaker 4>It was a collective phone call I think in Paris

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<v Speaker 4>on the fifth of December or Berlin. I forget when

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<v Speaker 4>it was, but we're the president. Yeah, yeah, but that

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<v Speaker 4>was sort of a collective.

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<v Speaker 1>And the last message with each other was in the

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<v Speaker 1>last time.

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<v Speaker 3>I think it's been made public.

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<v Speaker 1>That was the last time you spoke.

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<v Speaker 3>That's the last time. That's the time we messaged.

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<v Speaker 2>The reason I asked this is I'm trying to engage

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<v Speaker 2>whether there was a misunderstanding. It certainly seems like you

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<v Speaker 2>perceived there was a misunderstanding.

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<v Speaker 4>My perception is that it was a misunderstanding. So now

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<v Speaker 4>we need to, you know, sit down, discuss, get an

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<v Speaker 4>off ramp and at the end of the day, we

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<v Speaker 4>need more Arctic security and with European and American presence.

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<v Speaker 2>This is clearly played out very publicly, and you've been

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<v Speaker 2>transparent about how frank things are often behind the scenes.

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<v Speaker 2>But given how publicly this has played out, what kind

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<v Speaker 2>of a message you think this is sending to the

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<v Speaker 2>Russians at the moment where this is playing out.

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<v Speaker 4>Well, any time there is a diplomatic issue, to put

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<v Speaker 4>it diplomatically between US the Transatlantic partners, I'm sure that

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<v Speaker 4>the Kremlin is enjoying it, I mean, and they will

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<v Speaker 4>use it as they best can, as we saw, you know,

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<v Speaker 4>I mean, for a minister of Russia, love Rov puts

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<v Speaker 4>out a tweet and saying that for the US, Greenland

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<v Speaker 4>is what Crimea is for Russia, and obviously you know

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<v Speaker 4>that's an insult and we all understand that.

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<v Speaker 3>So we always have to be.

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<v Speaker 4>Careful with the Russians because they will use any moment

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<v Speaker 4>and any possibility for good old information warfare and propaganda.

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<v Speaker 5>The unintended consequences is just creates more of a positive

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<v Speaker 5>attitude towards Russia and China and divides the Transatlantic relationship.

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<v Speaker 3>How big a concern is.

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<v Speaker 5>That, especially if we just saw Mark Karney go over

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<v Speaker 5>to Beijing and say they have this new strategic partnership.

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<v Speaker 4>Yeah, I mean, I think you know, I'm very pro European,

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<v Speaker 4>I'm very pro American, and I'm a Transatlanticist. So it

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<v Speaker 4>is in my interests and also based on my values

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<v Speaker 4>that we have a closer relationship with the United States.

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<v Speaker 4>That's why I'm also very pragmatic. I understand that the

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<v Speaker 4>United States is the number one superpower and what we

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<v Speaker 4>need to avoid, of course, is a certain disengagement. At

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<v Speaker 4>the same time, I have to say that Europe needs to.

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<v Speaker 3>Use this moment as well.

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<v Speaker 4>You know, it needs to beef up its defense, it

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<v Speaker 4>needs to get stronger economically, and I think, you know,

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<v Speaker 4>my big cisis is that it's going to be the

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<v Speaker 4>global South that decides the new world order. So that

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<v Speaker 4>means that we need to engage more with the likes

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<v Speaker 4>of India. I really like the free trade agreement that

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<v Speaker 4>the EU Fortuo Mercosur, and I think people will start

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<v Speaker 4>looking a little bit elsewhere, but I really still want

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<v Speaker 4>to contain and bring back the US as best we

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<v Speaker 4>can on.

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<v Speaker 3>Top of Russia.

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<v Speaker 5>On that conversation, I've been told those discussions are going

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<v Speaker 5>very well between the United States and Ukrainians, the United

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<v Speaker 5>States and the Russians. Krull Dimitriev reportedly is here having

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<v Speaker 5>a conversation with Steve Wikoff today. How much longer do

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<v Speaker 5>you think it will take to get that deal done?

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<v Speaker 5>Do you think Putin even wants a deal?

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<v Speaker 4>Okay, So two observations on this. The first one is

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<v Speaker 4>that I'm afraid that the Greenland issue will take all

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<v Speaker 4>the oxygen here in Davos from the Ukraine Dossea, which

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<v Speaker 4>I still think is fundamentally important and acute.

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<v Speaker 3>But the second point is good news.

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<v Speaker 4>I think ever since Jared Kushnair came into the game,

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<v Speaker 4>actually in Geneva right after the g twenty summit, and

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<v Speaker 4>we had another meeting in Berlin and then in Paris,

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<v Speaker 4>we have a lot of more practicality. So we basically

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<v Speaker 4>have depends on how you count six documents or two

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<v Speaker 4>or two plus five documents. The good news is that Ukraine,

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<v Speaker 4>the United States, and the Collision of the Willing or

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<v Speaker 4>Europe we're on the same page. The big question is

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<v Speaker 4>are the Russians. I'm quite skeptical about that. I think

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<v Speaker 4>we might get a deal on security arrangements, we might

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<v Speaker 4>get a deal on territory, certainly on the prosperity package.

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<v Speaker 4>I'm quite hopeful that we'll get something here this week.

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<v Speaker 4>But then the Russians will say yet, well, if Russia.

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<v Speaker 5>Continues to drag the United States along, do you have

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<v Speaker 5>a sense of what Trump's red line is with Putin?

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<v Speaker 4>I'm not going to start interpreting the red lines or

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<v Speaker 4>the President of the United States, but I have to

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<v Speaker 4>say that I really like what he did on Luke

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<v Speaker 4>Oil and Rosneft, on the sanctions, and to be honest,

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<v Speaker 4>I mean putin light to President Trump about the drones

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<v Speaker 4>hitting his datcha. They fired ballistic missiles. So this is

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<v Speaker 4>something that certainly will shorten the fuse of the President

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<v Speaker 4>of the United States. And it of course depends on

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<v Speaker 4>how much carrot do you put before.

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<v Speaker 3>You hit with the big stick.

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<v Speaker 2>To find a question, we often ask our guests for

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<v Speaker 2>forecasts at the World Economic Forum. I'm not going to

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<v Speaker 2>ask for a long term one. Where do you think

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<v Speaker 2>will be at the end of this week.

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<v Speaker 4>I think we will have defused the Greenland issue, I

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<v Speaker 4>think we will have made progress on Ukraine, and I

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<v Speaker 4>am one hundred percent sure that the world will not

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<v Speaker 4>be finished by then.

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<v Speaker 1>Mister President, thanks for your time.

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<v Speaker 3>Thanks