WEBVTT - Growing Up (with Judy Blume) 0:00:02.040 --> 0:00:05.120 I'm Hillary Clinton and this is you and Me Both. 0:00:05.840 --> 0:00:09.080 I am so thrilled to be joined this week by 0:00:09.160 --> 0:00:15.000 the groundbreaking author Judy Bloom. Since she began writing in 0:00:15.080 --> 0:00:18.520 the late sixties, Judy's books have struck a chord with 0:00:18.800 --> 0:00:22.360 so many millions of readers, from are You There, God, 0:00:22.480 --> 0:00:25.919 It's Me Margaret to Tales of a fourth grade Nothing 0:00:26.120 --> 0:00:30.360 to Blubber, Let's Not Forget Forever. That one was famously 0:00:30.600 --> 0:00:33.800 passed around among groups of friends. Some of the pages 0:00:33.840 --> 0:00:38.040 were dog eared because they had quote sex scenes in them. 0:00:38.479 --> 0:00:43.360 Her open, frank way that her novels engaged with subjects that, 0:00:43.720 --> 0:00:49.360 you know, we're considered taboo, like sexuality, bullying, divorce, religion 0:00:50.080 --> 0:00:54.200 really resonated with young people now. Of course, writing about 0:00:54.200 --> 0:00:58.480 those topics also got her into some hot water since 0:00:58.560 --> 0:01:03.200 the culture War. Back in the Reagan era, Judy's novels 0:01:03.240 --> 0:01:08.080 have consistently landed on the American Library Association's list of 0:01:08.240 --> 0:01:14.279 most Banned books. But today Judy Bloom is enjoying something 0:01:14.319 --> 0:01:18.880 of a renaissance. The film adaptation of Are You There, God, 0:01:18.959 --> 0:01:23.560 It's Me Margaret came out this past spring to critical acclaim, 0:01:24.200 --> 0:01:28.080 and it caused a resurgence of women of a certain 0:01:28.120 --> 0:01:33.000 age talking about their formative experiences with the story and 0:01:33.080 --> 0:01:37.120 Judy Bloom Forever, a new documentary film about her, is 0:01:37.200 --> 0:01:41.679 streaming now on Amazon Prime. There are so many things 0:01:41.760 --> 0:01:44.840 I want to talk to Judy about, including her efforts 0:01:44.880 --> 0:01:48.480 to combat book bands and the nonprofit bookstore that she 0:01:48.560 --> 0:01:51.920 and her husband run down in Key West, Florida. I 0:01:51.960 --> 0:01:56.840 am so delighted she's joining me on the podcast. Are 0:01:56.840 --> 0:02:00.240 you there, Judy Bloom, It's me Hillary. 0:02:01.200 --> 0:02:04.840 I am there, Hillary. Hello, Hello, good morning. 0:02:05.040 --> 0:02:08.600 Oh. I cannot tell you what a treat it is 0:02:08.760 --> 0:02:13.000 for me to talk with you. And I asked a 0:02:13.040 --> 0:02:18.080 couple of my childhood friends from ancient times who are 0:02:18.160 --> 0:02:22.400 still vacation with visit with, you know, catch up with 0:02:22.520 --> 0:02:24.800 all the time, you know what, they'd want me to 0:02:24.840 --> 0:02:27.399 talk to you about and to a person because we're 0:02:27.400 --> 0:02:30.799 a little older than you know when you started. They said, Oh, 0:02:30.880 --> 0:02:35.560 I wish she'd written when we were we were wondering 0:02:35.639 --> 0:02:39.960 about life, and they reminded me, and I just wanted 0:02:40.000 --> 0:02:43.800 to tell you that I remember in sixth grades, this 0:02:43.840 --> 0:02:47.239 would have been probably nineteen fifty seven, maybe fifty eight. 0:02:47.840 --> 0:02:51.160 All the girls in the sixth grade were ushered into 0:02:51.160 --> 0:02:58.399 our school auditorium. There was brown paper covering the windows 0:02:58.840 --> 0:03:02.880 in the doors leading to the auditorium. We had no 0:03:03.000 --> 0:03:06.560 idea why we were there. And we sat down and 0:03:06.600 --> 0:03:10.480 they showed us a film about mens duration, and I, 0:03:10.560 --> 0:03:14.120 along with the vast majority of my classmates, as we 0:03:14.120 --> 0:03:16.520 were recalling the other day when I was telling them 0:03:16.560 --> 0:03:19.760 I was talking to you, had never heard of it. 0:03:20.320 --> 0:03:24.320 I remember one of my friends saying, wait, I'm gonna bleed, 0:03:25.600 --> 0:03:30.280 I'll die. And you know I had a wonderful mother, 0:03:30.560 --> 0:03:33.720 but she never said a word. I came home from school, 0:03:33.960 --> 0:03:38.200 I said, we saw this film, and she goes, oh, oh, 0:03:38.240 --> 0:03:43.040 so now you understand. No, I did not understand. But 0:03:43.520 --> 0:03:46.240 none of us knew about this. This this this very 0:03:46.320 --> 0:03:49.800 natural thing that is the experience of you know, all 0:03:49.840 --> 0:03:53.840 of us. And I know I know from reading about you. 0:03:53.840 --> 0:03:56.680 You you didn't grow up with any more openness than 0:03:56.760 --> 0:03:57.560 I did. 0:03:58.360 --> 0:04:01.480 My mother didn't talk about anything, but my father did. 0:04:01.560 --> 0:04:04.280 Oh, my god, my father would never have sort of worried. 0:04:04.280 --> 0:04:07.760 My father did. My father is the one who told 0:04:07.800 --> 0:04:09.040 me about menstruation. 0:04:09.400 --> 0:04:09.600 Oh. 0:04:09.960 --> 0:04:13.080 I didn't understand anything that he was saying. It had 0:04:13.080 --> 0:04:17.080 to do with a lunar cycle and the moon being full, 0:04:17.240 --> 0:04:19.120 and so I would look out the window and if 0:04:19.120 --> 0:04:22.160 the moon was full, I said, this is now, is 0:04:22.200 --> 0:04:26.320 the time that all the women are having this wonderful experience. 0:04:26.360 --> 0:04:28.240 I couldn't wait to get my period. 0:04:28.480 --> 0:04:31.440 I really really wanted it. As you know from my books. 0:04:31.800 --> 0:04:36.000 Oh my gosh, thank goodness, you had a father like that. 0:04:36.080 --> 0:04:39.520 Most of us did not. The last thing my father 0:04:39.760 --> 0:04:43.280 ever would have talked to me about is anything personal. 0:04:44.080 --> 0:04:46.120 But you know your mother, and you've written about her, 0:04:46.240 --> 0:04:49.120 You've done interviews. I've read long, long interviews with you 0:04:49.160 --> 0:04:51.440 over the years. You know, you're so open about how 0:04:51.480 --> 0:04:55.479 you didn't have that kind of intimate, open relationship with 0:04:55.680 --> 0:05:01.560 your mom. But you know she started typing your early books, right, 0:05:02.080 --> 0:05:04.840 she did that open up a conversation or was it 0:05:04.960 --> 0:05:06.200 just like I will type this. 0:05:07.520 --> 0:05:11.040 It was so strange because she came to my house 0:05:11.320 --> 0:05:14.160 type to type it. She was a crackerjack typist. And 0:05:14.560 --> 0:05:16.919 when my father died, and he died early at age 0:05:16.960 --> 0:05:20.799 fifty four, she went to work at a law firm 0:05:21.000 --> 0:05:25.520 and she was their typist, one of their many typist, 0:05:25.600 --> 0:05:28.280 I guess, but they always said when when she went 0:05:28.320 --> 0:05:31.440 on vacation, they had to hire two people to take 0:05:31.480 --> 0:05:34.400 her place. She was great, and I have to say 0:05:34.520 --> 0:05:39.200 she is the person who really so encouraged me to 0:05:39.320 --> 0:05:44.599 read and never restricted what I chose to read. She 0:05:44.600 --> 0:05:46.520 would say, I think you would like this book, and 0:05:46.800 --> 0:05:48.240 Frank she. 0:05:48.240 --> 0:05:51.120 Kind of related to you then in a way through books. 0:05:51.400 --> 0:05:55.240 Yes, yes, and that's a wonderful thing that parents and 0:05:55.320 --> 0:06:00.159 kids can do. Maybe you can't talk about me, but 0:06:00.279 --> 0:06:03.800 you can talk about this character in a book, and 0:06:04.360 --> 0:06:07.719 that's great. However, my mother came to the house, she 0:06:07.960 --> 0:06:12.960 typed my manuscripts and that was it. She did not 0:06:13.320 --> 0:06:16.240 ask questions. I did not let her type the manuscript 0:06:17.000 --> 0:06:22.279 for forever. She did type, Margaret, you know, these were finished. 0:06:22.360 --> 0:06:26.200 I can type. I'm a pretty good typist. But she 0:06:26.279 --> 0:06:29.120 would do the one that was going to the publisher 0:06:29.640 --> 0:06:33.880 and never said anything, Oh my, I never said a thing. 0:06:34.160 --> 0:06:35.080 Isn't that weird? 0:06:35.400 --> 0:06:38.599 It is weird, but it's weirdly touching too, you know. 0:06:39.640 --> 0:06:43.600 She wanted to be helpful. She couldn't really talk to 0:06:43.640 --> 0:06:47.279 you about even what you were writing. I do think 0:06:47.279 --> 0:06:50.559 a lot of it is generational, you know, women of 0:06:51.040 --> 0:06:54.400 her generation, my mother's generation born you know, in the 0:06:54.680 --> 0:06:57.719 early part of the twentieth century, you know, I don't 0:06:57.760 --> 0:07:01.400 think they had anybody to talk to. You know, my 0:07:01.480 --> 0:07:04.160 mother had a terrible childhood, and you know, just ugh, 0:07:04.279 --> 0:07:06.760 I don't know how she survived it. And so when 0:07:06.760 --> 0:07:10.000 I learned more about that, I just couldn't even imagine 0:07:10.640 --> 0:07:13.280 what it must have been like for her. But what 0:07:13.400 --> 0:07:19.520 you did, and what was so incredibly impactful about your writing, 0:07:19.880 --> 0:07:25.640 is that you kind of brought these very real childhood, 0:07:25.720 --> 0:07:31.680 personal growing up experiences to public light. And maybe a 0:07:31.720 --> 0:07:35.440 mother or a father or both couldn't talk to their child, 0:07:36.240 --> 0:07:39.440 but you, in a way were talking for them because 0:07:39.480 --> 0:07:43.880 you were allowing these issues, these concerns that kids have 0:07:44.080 --> 0:07:46.200 to be legitimized. 0:07:46.880 --> 0:07:52.360 Well, I like that, Thank you. That's not what I 0:07:52.440 --> 0:07:54.600 was thinking. Of course, when I was writing, I was 0:07:54.840 --> 0:07:57.520 just you know, I had all this stuff inside me, 0:07:57.760 --> 0:08:01.960 and I had the creative and I needed a place 0:08:02.000 --> 0:08:06.880 to put it because I then remember my generation, we 0:08:07.000 --> 0:08:11.440 married early, we had our children early, and. 0:08:11.640 --> 0:08:12.160 Then what. 0:08:13.600 --> 0:08:16.720 Yeah, and I think I do think in my generation 0:08:17.360 --> 0:08:20.720 that's why there was so much divorce. You know, I 0:08:20.840 --> 0:08:24.760 was a junior in college when I got married, and 0:08:25.280 --> 0:08:26.800 you know, I had two kids by the time I 0:08:26.840 --> 0:08:31.440 was twenty five, right, and I liked taking care of babies. 0:08:31.520 --> 0:08:36.880 But then then what yeah, exactly, and I desperately needed 0:08:37.960 --> 0:08:41.440 the creative outlet. It could have been anything, but I 0:08:41.559 --> 0:08:45.200 was home with two little kids, and I did have 0:08:45.280 --> 0:08:48.360 stories running around in my head forever since I was 0:08:48.480 --> 0:08:52.440 nine years old. So it's like, okay, let's see, let's 0:08:52.440 --> 0:08:53.439 see if I can do this. 0:08:54.440 --> 0:08:57.600 So your first book, the title is so great, the 0:08:57.600 --> 0:09:03.640 one in the Kangaroo Kelly, that was forgettable. That's forgettable. 0:09:03.720 --> 0:09:06.280 It amazes me that it's still in print and that 0:09:06.400 --> 0:09:10.000 children read it, but little children, little children, And there 0:09:10.120 --> 0:09:12.760 was a publisher, and I guess a publisher, right, So 0:09:13.400 --> 0:09:17.120 how did you go from feeling, you know, the need 0:09:17.160 --> 0:09:20.240 to express yourself creatively to getting that first book in print? 0:09:20.600 --> 0:09:21.479 Well, I knew. 0:09:21.200 --> 0:09:25.720 Nothing, you know. It was extremely naive and I didn't 0:09:25.720 --> 0:09:30.320 know anybody who wrote or anybody in publishing. But I 0:09:30.400 --> 0:09:33.800 read magazines about, you know, how to publish your book. 0:09:34.400 --> 0:09:37.840 That first book was not the book that brought me 0:09:38.000 --> 0:09:42.200 my incredible editor, the best editor in the whole world, 0:09:42.240 --> 0:09:46.920 Dick Jackson. That was the next book, Iggy's House. So 0:09:47.040 --> 0:09:49.920 the first book was published just you know, I would 0:09:49.920 --> 0:09:52.440 send the manuscript out and it would come back and 0:09:52.440 --> 0:09:55.360 I would send it out to somebody else and somebody 0:09:55.360 --> 0:09:59.360 published it. But of course what's unforgettable to me is 0:09:59.400 --> 0:10:04.600 working with Jackson. I mean, Dick Jackson really discovered me, 0:10:04.800 --> 0:10:10.880 found me, nurtured me. Every one of his writers felt 0:10:11.160 --> 0:10:14.479 and still continues to feel the same way about him. 0:10:14.520 --> 0:10:19.200 How lucky, how incredible to find a person like this. 0:10:19.400 --> 0:10:23.600 And apparently he worked differently with every one of his writers, 0:10:24.000 --> 0:10:24.360 you know. 0:10:24.360 --> 0:10:25.520 Like, does he do that with you? 0:10:25.840 --> 0:10:26.120 Wait? 0:10:26.480 --> 0:10:27.480 No, does he do that? 0:10:28.480 --> 0:10:32.280 It's almost like girlfriend's talking about a boyfriend. But it wasn't, 0:10:32.440 --> 0:10:35.440 you know. It was just a way that he found 0:10:36.040 --> 0:10:40.000 that he recognized what we needed and he gave that 0:10:40.120 --> 0:10:44.720 to us, and for me, all of my early books, 0:10:44.760 --> 0:10:48.199 not the Fudge books, because Dick and his partner Bob 0:10:48.360 --> 0:10:51.239 ver Owen said to me, oh, Judy, you're so prolific. 0:10:51.320 --> 0:10:55.080 This was ages ago. You're so prolific. Why don't you 0:10:55.160 --> 0:10:57.920 do those funny books that you're writing with somebody else? 0:10:59.760 --> 0:11:00.200 Wow? 0:11:00.720 --> 0:11:04.400 I know, And that was a big joke between us 0:11:04.559 --> 0:11:07.679 later on. You know, how did they let those books go? 0:11:07.800 --> 0:11:11.160 But they did, and they were very small company, and 0:11:11.240 --> 0:11:13.120 I was prolific in those days. 0:11:13.200 --> 0:11:16.200 They just couldn't handle your workload. I was getting the 0:11:16.360 --> 0:11:17.360 job done. 0:11:17.440 --> 0:11:23.400 I don't know how, because I used to think, someday, someday, 0:11:23.440 --> 0:11:27.080 when the kids are bigger, I will have much more 0:11:27.120 --> 0:11:28.000 time to do this. 0:11:28.480 --> 0:11:29.679 And you know what happened. 0:11:30.400 --> 0:11:32.840 The more time I had to do this, the less 0:11:32.880 --> 0:11:34.160 well I used my time. 0:11:34.720 --> 0:11:37.560 And what did your kids think about their mom writing books? 0:11:37.559 --> 0:11:40.839 Because clearly at some point they realized that there were 0:11:40.880 --> 0:11:43.880 books that you actually had written, maybe on the kitchen 0:11:43.920 --> 0:11:46.679 table or in a desk in their house somewhere. 0:11:46.840 --> 0:11:50.200 The first two were at the kitchen table on the 0:11:50.200 --> 0:11:55.000 college typewriter. You know, it evolved. I mean, if you 0:11:55.080 --> 0:11:59.560 ask them now at sixty and sixty two, what they 0:11:59.600 --> 0:12:02.320 would tell you something different. But my daughter was my 0:12:02.400 --> 0:12:05.280 first reader, you know, she was a reader always, and 0:12:05.600 --> 0:12:08.439 come home from school and she pulled the pages out 0:12:08.440 --> 0:12:11.760 of the typewriter and she would sit there and read them. 0:12:12.240 --> 0:12:16.480 And she says that I always watched her to see 0:12:16.520 --> 0:12:19.720 what she thought was funny, how she was reacting, and 0:12:19.760 --> 0:12:22.360 she would say, I can't read while you're looking at me. 0:12:22.800 --> 0:12:26.400 Stop looking at me. And my son says he remembers 0:12:26.840 --> 0:12:30.680 the clickiti clickiti claque of the typewriter but really and truly, 0:12:31.480 --> 0:12:36.520 I feel that I didn't make enough of the fact 0:12:36.640 --> 0:12:40.160 that I was a working mom because there weren't any 0:12:40.320 --> 0:12:43.319 on our cul de sac we lived in suburban New Jersey. 0:12:43.880 --> 0:12:48.880 I never let them see I think the struggle and 0:12:48.960 --> 0:12:52.440 the pain, and I think that's important. 0:12:53.400 --> 0:12:57.000 So if a listener is thinking to herself, let's say 0:12:57.360 --> 0:13:00.679 or himself, but let's stick with herself. Gee, I want 0:13:00.720 --> 0:13:03.840 to do that too. And they have like young kids 0:13:03.880 --> 0:13:08.719 at home, you think, now, maybe sharing more of that 0:13:08.840 --> 0:13:11.800 process with them, letting them see this is you know, 0:13:11.840 --> 0:13:14.880 something you care deeply about and it takes time, it 0:13:14.920 --> 0:13:18.160 takes discipline. Is that something you would advise? 0:13:18.679 --> 0:13:22.720 Well, I mean women weren't going out to work so much. 0:13:22.840 --> 0:13:25.920 Oh, I know, I did not personally know any friend 0:13:26.200 --> 0:13:29.040 whose mother worked. Now I had women teachers, so clearly 0:13:29.080 --> 0:13:31.679 I knew women work, right, but nurse. 0:13:32.080 --> 0:13:34.200 You could be a teacher or a nurse or if. 0:13:34.080 --> 0:13:36.439 You sometimes you go into a store or the library 0:13:36.520 --> 0:13:40.080 and you'd see other women. But that seemed very disconnected 0:13:40.240 --> 0:13:43.319 from my neighborhood because nobody worked. None of the women work. 0:13:43.360 --> 0:13:45.600 The men left in the morning, they came back for dinner. 0:13:45.880 --> 0:13:48.960 Yep. And it is very different. But I do think that. 0:13:49.840 --> 0:13:52.280 I don't say, sit down and talk to your kids 0:13:52.280 --> 0:13:54.960 about the struggle. That's not how I would do it. 0:13:55.000 --> 0:13:58.200 I mean, just let them see it. Let them see 0:13:58.720 --> 0:14:01.600 what's going on the struggle. Don't hide it from them. 0:14:01.640 --> 0:14:04.600 You know, my first rejection, I went into the closet 0:14:04.640 --> 0:14:07.959 and I closed the door and I cried. Yeah, they 0:14:08.000 --> 0:14:10.480 were very small. Did they need to see that? No, 0:14:11.040 --> 0:14:14.319 that was mine, that was private. My husband, my then husband, 0:14:14.360 --> 0:14:17.840 never saw it. I don't know if he was aware 0:14:18.080 --> 0:14:22.560 really of what was going on. He just he well, 0:14:22.840 --> 0:14:25.680 this is terrible, but he thought it was cute. 0:14:25.840 --> 0:14:30.080 Yeah, I thought it was that again, is something very generational. 0:14:30.720 --> 0:14:34.520 But there was something else going on with you, Judy 0:14:34.560 --> 0:14:38.480 that I've always thought because you didn't just write whatever 0:14:38.520 --> 0:14:41.520 the more advanced version of you know, see Dick Run, 0:14:41.640 --> 0:14:45.600 see Jane catch the ball. I mean you you began 0:14:45.800 --> 0:14:51.560 to tackle issues of you know, race and sex and religion. 0:14:51.960 --> 0:14:55.120 Those were taboos. I mean I remember being told you 0:14:55.160 --> 0:14:58.280 never talk about religion, and they didn't have to say 0:14:58.320 --> 0:14:59.200 don't talk about sex. 0:14:59.400 --> 0:15:03.840 That was just assumed that didn't exist, that did not exist. 0:15:04.120 --> 0:15:08.280 You know, we had no idea. How did you come 0:15:08.400 --> 0:15:13.480 to you know, really embrace issues that others were not 0:15:13.960 --> 0:15:17.120 writing about, let alone talking about. Was it kind of 0:15:17.160 --> 0:15:19.480 scary to you to do that? 0:15:20.760 --> 0:15:25.360 I really can't explain, except that when I started, I 0:15:25.480 --> 0:15:28.880 knew that I wanted to write books that I would 0:15:28.920 --> 0:15:31.560 have wanted to read when I was a kid, and 0:15:32.080 --> 0:15:34.560 I knew that I wanted to be honest. I felt 0:15:34.960 --> 0:15:39.920 that adults in my life anyway, adults kept secrets from kids. 0:15:40.040 --> 0:15:44.280 Everything was secrets. I hated secrets. And so I mean 0:15:44.360 --> 0:15:47.640 that in a way, that's how I started my life 0:15:47.640 --> 0:15:50.760 of you know, inventing stories inside my head when I 0:15:50.800 --> 0:15:54.560 was nine years old. Because of the secrets and because 0:15:54.600 --> 0:15:57.040 nobody told me so, I had to make up the 0:15:57.120 --> 0:16:01.640 stories that went with the secrets. And I did want 0:16:01.640 --> 0:16:05.360 to be honest. And I have kids say to me, 0:16:05.400 --> 0:16:10.040 what's your superpower? I now have decided what my superpower is. 0:16:10.680 --> 0:16:11.640 It's my memory. 0:16:11.920 --> 0:16:13.720 Oh that's fascinating in what way. 0:16:14.280 --> 0:16:20.880 I had a fantastic memory for the details of being 0:16:20.920 --> 0:16:25.680 a child, and I still do. I mean, I may 0:16:25.720 --> 0:16:28.160 not know where my glasses are, or my keys, or 0:16:28.760 --> 0:16:32.400 you know, and remember to put on my little hearing aids, 0:16:32.480 --> 0:16:36.800 but I still have that memory for long ago. 0:16:37.640 --> 0:16:41.120 And children are very observant, and so children know a 0:16:41.200 --> 0:16:43.800 lot more than they are given credit for, don't. 0:16:43.560 --> 0:16:44.440 They They did? 0:16:44.960 --> 0:16:45.160 You know. 0:16:45.240 --> 0:16:48.640 I have a bookstore in Key West, and when especially 0:16:48.720 --> 0:16:51.920 a young child comes into the bookstore, you know, we 0:16:52.400 --> 0:16:56.240 can look into each other's eyes. I think this anyway, 0:16:56.840 --> 0:17:00.680 and we recognize something there. I'm talking four or five 0:17:00.880 --> 0:17:04.040 six year old. You know, the parent or the grandparent 0:17:04.080 --> 0:17:07.359 has always read this book. Get this book, you know, 0:17:07.560 --> 0:17:10.440 and I just make eye contact with the child. I'm 0:17:10.480 --> 0:17:13.680 careful in the bookstore not to say to the parents, no, 0:17:13.800 --> 0:17:17.560 don't do that. And then when it's older kids, it's like, 0:17:17.800 --> 0:17:22.080 please please just let them brows and choose their own books. 0:17:22.720 --> 0:17:25.480 Don't stand there and say, no, that's not a real 0:17:25.520 --> 0:17:29.160 book because it's a graphic novel. Don't stand there and 0:17:29.200 --> 0:17:32.840 say that's a comic book and you can't have you know. 0:17:32.880 --> 0:17:35.000 I don't know about you, but I, as much as 0:17:35.040 --> 0:17:37.280 I read books, I love comic books. 0:17:37.320 --> 0:17:37.840 I did too. 0:17:38.040 --> 0:17:40.080 Brenda star Girl reporter. 0:17:39.880 --> 0:17:43.040 Oh, Brenda Starr covered you know, she was carried in 0:17:43.119 --> 0:17:47.959 the Chicago Tribune. She was and this sounds ridiculous, but 0:17:48.040 --> 0:17:53.320 you'll understand she was the only grown up woman character 0:17:54.320 --> 0:17:57.240 that I knew of who had a job, and not 0:17:57.320 --> 0:18:02.720 just a job, a glamorous, exciting job, and a boyfriend 0:18:02.760 --> 0:18:04.720 with a patch over his eye. I mean, the whole 0:18:04.760 --> 0:18:09.439 thing was so seductive, and I was a faithful reader 0:18:09.480 --> 0:18:14.119 because it took me out of my present circumstances, because 0:18:14.160 --> 0:18:16.280 none of that existed where I was living. 0:18:16.640 --> 0:18:20.440 You probably don't remember this, but once I interviewed you 0:18:20.800 --> 0:18:25.600 for the twenty fifth anniversary, I think of Sesame Street 0:18:26.320 --> 0:18:30.200 and this has to do with Brenda Star. And that 0:18:30.359 --> 0:18:34.600 morning I was getting dressed and George, my husband, took 0:18:34.640 --> 0:18:38.280 a photo of me a little polaroid and it says 0:18:38.840 --> 0:18:45.679 Brenda Star, girl reporter going off to meet with Hiller. 0:18:46.080 --> 0:18:48.080 Oh my god, I love that. Oh you've got to 0:18:48.119 --> 0:18:49.960 send me a screenshot of the polaroid. 0:18:50.119 --> 0:18:51.400 Oh, I love it. 0:18:54.920 --> 0:19:06.879 We're taking a quick break. Stay with us. You know 0:19:06.920 --> 0:19:10.920 the recent documentary about you. I had a documentary done 0:19:10.920 --> 0:19:12.840 about me. I don't know about you, but it's scary. 0:19:13.040 --> 0:19:16.720 I mean, you know, you basically agree and then, at 0:19:16.800 --> 0:19:18.480 least in my case, is kind of out of your 0:19:18.480 --> 0:19:22.240 hands and off we go. Did you find that as well? 0:19:22.400 --> 0:19:23.520 I didn't want to do it. 0:19:23.600 --> 0:19:25.280 Yeah, I didn't want to do it. 0:19:25.400 --> 0:19:32.600 But I like the filmmakers very much and I trusted them. 0:19:32.640 --> 0:19:35.720 Right, That's how I ended up. But that was not 0:19:35.760 --> 0:19:38.720 an easy process to get to. But you know, one 0:19:38.720 --> 0:19:41.919 of the things that struck me that's in the documentary 0:19:42.880 --> 0:19:45.919 is the correspondence that you've had over the years with 0:19:46.000 --> 0:19:48.560 your readers. I didn't know that. I mean, you know, 0:19:48.640 --> 0:19:53.439 I had a similar experience in a way when Chelsea 0:19:53.640 --> 0:19:56.640 was five years old. She wrote a letter to President 0:19:56.680 --> 0:20:00.720 Reagan because we were talking at the dinner table that 0:20:00.960 --> 0:20:03.480 he was going to Germany and he was going to 0:20:03.520 --> 0:20:07.000 go visit a cemetery where a lot of Nazis were buried, 0:20:07.040 --> 0:20:10.440 and Bill and I were, you know, really unhappy about that, 0:20:10.520 --> 0:20:11.960 and we were talking about it over dinner, and so 0:20:12.040 --> 0:20:15.440 Chelsea started asking these questions like, you know, what does 0:20:15.440 --> 0:20:18.640 this mean? Who were the Nazis? What happened? And then 0:20:18.680 --> 0:20:21.400 she said she wanted to write a letter to President Reagan. 0:20:21.520 --> 0:20:25.200 And she wrote a letter, you know, asking us to 0:20:25.240 --> 0:20:28.320 help her spell. But she basically said, dear President Reagan, 0:20:29.000 --> 0:20:34.720 please don't go visit the cemetery. The Nazis were not nice. 0:20:35.000 --> 0:20:40.560 I saw the sound of music. Oh that's how we 0:20:40.600 --> 0:20:43.560 related it to her, and we sent the letter off 0:20:43.600 --> 0:20:45.959 and she never got a response. I mean for weeks 0:20:46.000 --> 0:20:48.280 she would, you know, come home from school and say 0:20:48.280 --> 0:20:50.080 did I get a letter? And I'd have to tell 0:20:50.080 --> 0:20:54.680 her no. So when Bill was elected president and we 0:20:54.680 --> 0:20:57.160 were moving to the White House, I asked her, I said, well, 0:20:57.200 --> 0:20:59.919 is there anything you particularly want your dad to do 0:21:00.240 --> 0:21:03.280 as president? And she said, I want him to make 0:21:03.320 --> 0:21:05.840 sure that every child who writes him a letter gets 0:21:05.840 --> 0:21:10.040 an answer. So we set up this big correspondence unit 0:21:10.119 --> 0:21:14.439 literally to answer kids letters. Most of whom in it 0:21:14.480 --> 0:21:17.760 were volunteers, wonderful people who took a day out of 0:21:17.800 --> 0:21:21.160 their week to come do this. So when I learned 0:21:21.160 --> 0:21:25.840 that you had correspondents with kids who read your letters, 0:21:25.840 --> 0:21:29.160 and those letters are now in the Yale University Archives, 0:21:29.800 --> 0:21:32.840 I was so touched. Talk to us about how that 0:21:33.080 --> 0:21:34.480 started and what it meant to you. 0:21:35.280 --> 0:21:39.399 Well, it was a huge surprise, you know, that first 0:21:39.400 --> 0:21:42.639 that somebody read my book, and then that that child 0:21:42.720 --> 0:21:45.040 would think to write to me. That the first letter 0:21:45.119 --> 0:21:48.720 was from a twelve year old girl, and I guess 0:21:48.720 --> 0:21:51.080 she had read Margaret because that was public. That was 0:21:51.119 --> 0:21:53.879 my third published book and the first one that really 0:21:54.040 --> 0:21:57.960 got out there. And I mean I was so excited. 0:21:58.040 --> 0:22:01.840 Of course I wrote back, and that was the beginning. 0:22:02.160 --> 0:22:05.520 It did reach a point where it took over my life. 0:22:05.600 --> 0:22:09.959 It became so difficult. Then I didn't know what to do. 0:22:10.040 --> 0:22:14.640 I actually consulted with a therapist because there were some 0:22:14.760 --> 0:22:16.880 as you know, that went on for years and years 0:22:16.880 --> 0:22:20.800 and years. You actually didn't get in the documentary the 0:22:21.000 --> 0:22:24.320 really well you got one serious woman. There there were 0:22:24.359 --> 0:22:27.320 many others, many, many, many others. 0:22:27.600 --> 0:22:30.480 I want our listeners to understand if they haven't seen 0:22:30.520 --> 0:22:34.680 the documentary, that we're talking about children writing you with 0:22:35.119 --> 0:22:40.440 serious problems, even you know, threatening suicide and just pouring 0:22:40.720 --> 0:22:42.040 their little hearts out to you. 0:22:42.520 --> 0:22:46.480 Yes, I mean with that comes a great responsibility, does 0:22:46.800 --> 0:22:51.280 It does? Because you can't ignore them. You want to 0:22:51.320 --> 0:22:54.040 try to help. And that's when I consulted with someone 0:22:54.600 --> 0:22:58.320 because there was one particular kid that I just grew 0:22:58.359 --> 0:23:02.480 to love and I I wanted to save her, and 0:23:03.119 --> 0:23:08.600 the professional helped me understand that I couldn't necessarily save 0:23:08.680 --> 0:23:11.359 her or any of the others, but I could be 0:23:11.800 --> 0:23:19.280 a supportive friend, and that just by acknowledging what they 0:23:19.280 --> 0:23:23.960 were writing about, you know, acknowledging their lives and their problems, 0:23:24.680 --> 0:23:26.640 that that was a good thing to do. 0:23:27.240 --> 0:23:30.800 You know, I've had somewhat similar experiences in public life 0:23:30.800 --> 0:23:34.639 where people either write to me or whisper in my 0:23:34.880 --> 0:23:41.480 ear and confide, you know, deeply personal stories, struggles, questions, 0:23:41.760 --> 0:23:46.200 And on the one hand it is such a responsibility, 0:23:46.240 --> 0:23:50.840 it's also such an honor that, for whatever reason, some 0:23:51.080 --> 0:23:54.879 other human being, often a young person, is willing to 0:23:55.800 --> 0:23:58.240 open up to you. You know, people want to be 0:23:58.320 --> 0:24:00.879 heard and they want to be seen, especially children. You know, 0:24:00.920 --> 0:24:03.800 I was talking to a group of teenagers because you know, 0:24:03.840 --> 0:24:08.240 there's a lot of legitimate worry about what's happening with teens, 0:24:08.359 --> 0:24:13.199 especially teenage girls today, and the rise of anxiety and 0:24:13.240 --> 0:24:16.439 depression and eating disorders, and the linkage with you know, 0:24:16.480 --> 0:24:20.080 what happens on social media. And I asked this, you know, 0:24:20.119 --> 0:24:23.040 a group of fifteen sixteen year olds what they thought 0:24:23.160 --> 0:24:26.720 could be helpful. I mean, were there you know, programs 0:24:26.840 --> 0:24:29.359 or people. And one of them said to me, you 0:24:29.440 --> 0:24:31.720 just don't understand how hard it is to talk to 0:24:31.760 --> 0:24:32.680