WEBVTT - #270 Maggie Freleng with Karla Baday 0:00:00.680 --> 0:00:04.200 A note for listeners, this episode contains discussion of alleged 0:00:04.280 --> 0:00:07.640 child sexual abuse. Please alsome with caution and care. 0:00:09.520 --> 0:00:12.960 Hey, may hey, Jason, you know, I'm so glad you're 0:00:13.000 --> 0:00:14.560 focusing on women this season. 0:00:14.760 --> 0:00:17.920 Absolutely, and so many of those women are in prison 0:00:18.040 --> 0:00:19.840 for crimes that never. 0:00:19.960 --> 0:00:21.960 Happens, times that never even happened. 0:00:22.040 --> 0:00:22.239 Crime. 0:00:22.320 --> 0:00:25.920 Yeah, And I think it's especially issues that women deal with, 0:00:26.000 --> 0:00:29.280 you know, being persecuted for being gay or you know, 0:00:29.440 --> 0:00:32.120 being sex trafficked. But I think in these instances and 0:00:32.159 --> 0:00:38.879 these wrongful convictions, especially with the no crime convictions, it 0:00:38.920 --> 0:00:39.960 happens to women a lot. 0:00:42.760 --> 0:00:48.000 They like you being arrested for sexual abuse. In Maria medinezquid, 0:00:48.520 --> 0:00:50.960 I said, please find out the truth because I didn't 0:00:50.960 --> 0:00:53.440 do none of these things. Oh are you sure you should? 0:00:53.479 --> 0:00:56.160 I say yes, I am, Yes, I am. Can you 0:00:56.240 --> 0:00:58.160 please find out the truth. 0:01:01.120 --> 0:01:04.000 From Lava for Good? This is wrongful conviction with Maggie 0:01:04.000 --> 0:01:17.479 Freeling today Carlo Badet. In late January of two thousand 0:01:17.520 --> 0:01:20.400 and two, twenty four year old Carla Badet was invited 0:01:20.440 --> 0:01:24.319 to visit her ex girlfriend Maria Medina in Armona, in 0:01:24.360 --> 0:01:28.200 California's San Joaquin Valley. It was Maria's birthday, and Carla 0:01:28.360 --> 0:01:31.039 loved spending time with Maria's four young children, so she 0:01:31.120 --> 0:01:33.760 accepted the invitation. She stayed for a week or so 0:01:34.040 --> 0:01:37.760 and then went back home to Los Angeles. Shortly after 0:01:37.880 --> 0:01:41.280 arriving home, the police came and brought Carla in for questioning. 0:01:41.600 --> 0:01:44.600 Maria had called the police and said that Carla molested 0:01:44.680 --> 0:01:48.200 three of her children during the visit. Carla was in 0:01:48.280 --> 0:01:51.600 absolute shock, but knowing her relationship with the children, she 0:01:51.680 --> 0:01:55.840 believed the situation would resolve itself. But as an undocumented 0:01:55.880 --> 0:01:59.560 immigrant and a lesbian, Carla would have to navigate both 0:01:59.600 --> 0:02:04.120 the alli gations and prejudice against her identity. She didn't 0:02:04.120 --> 0:02:07.400 stand a chance. She was arrested and charged with multiple 0:02:07.400 --> 0:02:11.320 accounts of child sexual abuse. After only two days of 0:02:11.400 --> 0:02:15.880 trial and deliberations, the jury convicted her. She was sentenced 0:02:15.919 --> 0:02:20.800 to forty five years to life. Who is Carla Bade? 0:02:22.000 --> 0:02:28.120 Carla is just a happy spirit, That's what I am. 0:02:28.320 --> 0:02:32.880 You know, a happy spirit in somebody who cares and 0:02:33.240 --> 0:02:36.760 loves people. And she just loved being alive and being me. 0:02:37.880 --> 0:02:40.680 I'm Carla Baday from Honduras, forty four years. 0:02:40.520 --> 0:02:58.200 Old and how long were you incarcerated seventeen years. 0:02:59.000 --> 0:03:02.440 Carla Badey was born in Honduras on June seventeenth, nineteen 0:03:02.520 --> 0:03:06.920 seventy seven, to Julio Francisco Salgado and Sonya Mariciella in 0:03:06.960 --> 0:03:11.639 a little town called Soyo. Carla grew up the fifth 0:03:11.680 --> 0:03:15.080 of seven children. She was especially close with her youngest sibling. 0:03:15.600 --> 0:03:20.080 My name is Joseba Day. I am Carla's little sister, Jisa. 0:03:20.200 --> 0:03:22.280 Can you tell me what growing up in Honduras was 0:03:22.320 --> 0:03:23.080 like with Carla? 0:03:24.320 --> 0:03:29.080 Well, when I was in Honduras, I was ten or 0:03:29.160 --> 0:03:32.920 twelve years old when Carla leave my country, and I 0:03:32.960 --> 0:03:36.880 remember her. She was happy. She was as long as 0:03:36.880 --> 0:03:44.000 I remember. She was so caring about us, my nieces 0:03:44.000 --> 0:03:51.640 and nephews, they were babies, and you know, as a family, 0:03:51.880 --> 0:03:52.560 I love her. 0:03:54.440 --> 0:03:57.400 What do you remember? You know when she left? Because 0:03:57.400 --> 0:03:59.360 Carla left to go to the United States. I mean, 0:03:59.800 --> 0:04:03.320 do you understand what was going on or why she 0:04:03.440 --> 0:04:04.480 was leaving at that time? 0:04:06.120 --> 0:04:09.200 Not at that time, I realized when I get older, 0:04:09.800 --> 0:04:13.000 oh my god, I'm about to cry. I know she 0:04:13.120 --> 0:04:19.400 lives because our country was her for her. I do 0:04:19.560 --> 0:04:26.280 remember that she was fighting a lot with my mom 0:04:26.440 --> 0:04:39.360 in Oh my goodness, I'm sorry. 0:04:42.640 --> 0:04:44.719 Carla wasn't happy in Honduras. 0:04:45.080 --> 0:04:47.400 When I was growing up, I knew that I was different, 0:04:48.880 --> 0:04:51.520 and I was like six seven years old, I knew 0:04:51.520 --> 0:04:54.560 I was different. And then I started knowing that I 0:04:54.680 --> 0:04:57.120 didn't like boys because everybody was like, oh, you like 0:04:57.160 --> 0:04:59.200 this boy? Do you like this boy? And I'm like, no, 0:04:59.520 --> 0:05:00.880 I like the girl. You know. 0:05:03.240 --> 0:05:05.599 From a young age, Carla knew she was gay, but 0:05:05.760 --> 0:05:07.680 in Honduras she couldn't be herself. 0:05:08.960 --> 0:05:11.599 Being in that country, you cannot say too much about 0:05:11.760 --> 0:05:17.799 your sexuality because it's just a Catholic, you know, and 0:05:16.440 --> 0:05:20.360 they don't like gay people over there. You can get killed, 0:05:20.360 --> 0:05:22.520 you can get rape, you can get do a lot 0:05:22.520 --> 0:05:23.279 of things. 0:05:23.839 --> 0:05:25.960 Carlo says, from the time she was fifteen to twenty 0:05:26.080 --> 0:05:28.400 years old, she was harassed by local. 0:05:28.200 --> 0:05:33.800 Gangs, the gangs from the town, and they were like, okay, 0:05:33.880 --> 0:05:36.520 so you look like you're gay and stuff like that. 0:05:36.560 --> 0:05:40.279 So they were trying to rape me and trying to 0:05:40.320 --> 0:05:42.560 you know, abuse me or stuff like that and fight 0:05:42.680 --> 0:05:46.600 me or whatever. So I decided to leave. That was 0:05:46.640 --> 0:05:48.360 my time to leave, because if not, I would have 0:05:48.440 --> 0:05:51.960 got killed over there. So and I came to the 0:05:52.040 --> 0:05:53.599 United States. When I was twenty years old. 0:05:59.160 --> 0:06:02.920 In January nine, ten ninety nine, Carla left everything she 0:06:03.000 --> 0:06:06.440 knew in Honduras to journey to the United States. 0:06:07.600 --> 0:06:12.280 That was scary. I went. I went to the border 0:06:12.320 --> 0:06:16.599 of Salvador, then from Estalbador to Watela Watermela in Mexico, 0:06:16.720 --> 0:06:22.320 Mexico to the United States. So when I when I'm 0:06:22.320 --> 0:06:24.240 crossing the border, it's a lot of things going on, 0:06:24.320 --> 0:06:28.000 and that you you get assaulted by people in there 0:06:28.040 --> 0:06:32.640 with the mascons. And I was like eight days without eating. 0:06:33.360 --> 0:06:37.239 My feet were bleeding from walking so much out in shower. 0:06:37.440 --> 0:06:39.560 I had even lies in my head, you know, and 0:06:39.600 --> 0:06:42.279 it takes in my body because I was sleeping on 0:06:42.320 --> 0:06:46.760 the barns. I was sleeping whatever I can sleep. At 0:06:46.800 --> 0:06:50.000 one point, I was so tired that I was like, 0:06:50.279 --> 0:06:52.640 what should I do? But you know, I don't want 0:06:52.680 --> 0:06:55.120 to go back because I knew what was going to happen. 0:06:55.440 --> 0:06:58.159 So I keep pushing forward and saying, no, you got it, 0:06:58.240 --> 0:06:59.480 you gotta do it, you gotta do it. 0:07:01.279 --> 0:07:03.920 Carla ended up crossing through the desert with some food 0:07:04.040 --> 0:07:08.200 and water, but very little. She became incredibly thirsty and 0:07:08.279 --> 0:07:10.960 at some point she found a pot of dirty water 0:07:11.200 --> 0:07:12.240 that cows used. 0:07:12.760 --> 0:07:15.840 Would they do their their necessities? And I'm like, I'm 0:07:15.840 --> 0:07:18.240 going to have to drink this water. So that's what 0:07:18.320 --> 0:07:20.640 I did. I went and got the water and I 0:07:20.640 --> 0:07:23.200 started drinking the water, even though it was gross, but 0:07:23.320 --> 0:07:26.520 it was I feel like I was dehydrated, completely dehydrated 0:07:26.560 --> 0:07:28.360 because it was it was hot. 0:07:29.800 --> 0:07:32.480 Finally, Carla made it through the desert and into the 0:07:32.600 --> 0:07:36.240 United States. She arrived in February of nineteen ninety nine, 0:07:36.560 --> 0:07:42.680 and she felt safe from the dangers she faced in Honduras. 0:07:45.560 --> 0:07:47.800 As the year wore on, Carla settled into her new 0:07:47.840 --> 0:07:50.360 life as an openly gay woman in the United States. 0:07:50.720 --> 0:07:53.400 She was looking forward to having a family and kids 0:07:53.520 --> 0:07:57.640 and just a normal life. She started dating too. One night, 0:07:57.720 --> 0:07:59.640 she was in Harmona and went out to a bar 0:07:59.680 --> 0:08:03.920 with a and there she met someone. 0:08:03.080 --> 0:08:04.880 I was used to go play pool because I like 0:08:04.920 --> 0:08:08.200 to play pool, and then I met Maria. 0:08:08.280 --> 0:08:11.440 At first, Carla wasn't interested in pursuing anything with Maria, 0:08:11.800 --> 0:08:13.640 but Maria was persistent. 0:08:14.120 --> 0:08:16.360 Finally I got with her, you know, so it's like 0:08:16.960 --> 0:08:22.480 finally I said, okay, you know, it's like, let's do it. 0:08:22.880 --> 0:08:25.920 So I started dating her and then we started dating 0:08:25.960 --> 0:08:28.960 and then moving with her. She was living in her 0:08:29.000 --> 0:08:32.920 house with four kids, and so I moved in with her. 0:08:33.040 --> 0:08:35.160 And you wanted kid, you wanted a family. I wanted 0:08:35.160 --> 0:08:36.560 a family and she had kids. 0:08:36.880 --> 0:08:38.040 So at first it was happy. 0:08:38.440 --> 0:08:46.720 At first, yes, Carla and Maria enjoyed their time together 0:08:46.840 --> 0:08:52.240 for the first few months. Carla loved the four kids, Tony, Corina, Graciela, 0:08:52.400 --> 0:08:55.600 and Fabian. She loved being a mom to them. But 0:08:55.679 --> 0:08:59.360 things between her and Maria eventually started to change. 0:09:00.080 --> 0:09:04.920 And then everything became like an obsession or I don't 0:09:04.920 --> 0:09:09.199 know what it was, but it was like controlling, more controlling, 0:09:09.240 --> 0:09:12.080 and it's like she was not allowing me to talk 0:09:12.120 --> 0:09:17.240 to my family in the phone, because not everybody from 0:09:17.280 --> 0:09:19.120 my family was his. She's my brother. But I was 0:09:19.120 --> 0:09:21.640 calling Honduras. She was not allowing me to talk to 0:09:21.720 --> 0:09:24.840 my family. She was not allowed me to go to 0:09:24.880 --> 0:09:28.160 the store by myself. I had to go with one 0:09:28.200 --> 0:09:30.880 of her kids. And then she was questioning the kids 0:09:30.880 --> 0:09:33.439 when I was coming back from the store, like if 0:09:33.480 --> 0:09:36.000 I talked to a girl, if I did this, and 0:09:36.160 --> 0:09:40.200 you know, and then and then she was threatening me 0:09:40.320 --> 0:09:43.600 to call immigration if I did something to return me 0:09:43.640 --> 0:09:44.520 back to my country. 0:09:45.480 --> 0:09:48.240 Carla lived like this for months. After about a year 0:09:48.240 --> 0:09:50.880 and a half, they broke up. At this point, Carla 0:09:50.960 --> 0:09:55.000 says Maria was a heavy methemphetamine user and many aspects 0:09:55.040 --> 0:09:59.000 of the relationship had become unbearable. By this time, Carla's 0:09:59.040 --> 0:10:02.040 mother had also moved to the US, which helped Carla 0:10:02.120 --> 0:10:05.360 to realize home wasn't necessarily with Maria. 0:10:06.040 --> 0:10:08.720 So I left. I left from her house to my 0:10:08.800 --> 0:10:10.840 mom's house, back to La. 0:10:11.640 --> 0:10:14.040 Some time went by, then in late January of two 0:10:14.080 --> 0:10:18.160 thousand and two, Maria invited Carla back to celebrate her birthday. 0:10:18.559 --> 0:10:21.439 Carla was excited to see the children, who she cared 0:10:21.440 --> 0:10:24.840 for dearly, so she accepted the invitation. She stayed there 0:10:24.880 --> 0:10:28.920 for a little over a week and then returned to La. 0:10:29.120 --> 0:10:31.600 And then an afternoon, my mom was telling me Maria, 0:10:31.640 --> 0:10:33.800 I been calling you, Maria being calling you. I said, okay, 0:10:33.800 --> 0:10:36.160 so I'll call you back. I said yes, he said, 0:10:36.360 --> 0:10:42.120 you abuse my kids. I said, excuse me, and she's 0:10:42.200 --> 0:10:44.880 like yes, I said, you should be calling the police. 0:10:44.920 --> 0:10:47.120 You don't call me, you call the police. 0:10:48.040 --> 0:10:50.040 And then Carla says Maria threatened her. 0:10:50.960 --> 0:10:54.040 She said, if you're not with me, I will kill 0:10:54.080 --> 0:10:57.600 you or you will be in prison forever. That's what 0:10:57.640 --> 0:11:00.400 the two thread that she gave me. And then so said, well, 0:11:00.440 --> 0:11:03.160 you can do whatever, you know. I know I'm innocent 0:11:03.280 --> 0:11:06.480 and you can do your part, you know. So later 0:11:06.559 --> 0:11:10.120 that week she did she called the police and then 0:11:10.280 --> 0:11:15.240 later that week two officers came to visit mea La. 0:11:17.720 --> 0:11:20.040 The officers took her down to the station for questioning 0:11:20.120 --> 0:11:24.000 under the allegations that she abused Maria's kids. They told 0:11:24.000 --> 0:11:25.800 her the kids said that while Maria was at the 0:11:25.800 --> 0:11:29.199 store with her eleven year old son Tony, Carla sexually 0:11:29.200 --> 0:11:34.040 molested the other children, Carina, Graciela Fabian, who were seven, six, 0:11:34.120 --> 0:11:37.400 and four at the time. The detectives who interviewed her 0:11:37.440 --> 0:11:41.040 were Jeff Torres and Mark Lusk, but their questions were 0:11:41.080 --> 0:11:44.960 not what you'd expect. The detectives asked more about Carla's 0:11:45.040 --> 0:11:48.120 sex life with Maria than they did about her relationship 0:11:48.160 --> 0:11:50.720 with the kids. She says. They asked her if she 0:11:50.840 --> 0:11:54.240 and Maria used any sex toys and what kinds of 0:11:54.320 --> 0:11:55.040 toys they were. 0:11:56.679 --> 0:11:58.560 How did you feel when they were asking you about 0:11:58.640 --> 0:12:00.440 your sex toys and your sex life. 0:12:00.640 --> 0:12:03.520 It was very embarrassing, especially because they were all men. 0:12:04.040 --> 0:12:06.480 It was I'm the only female in there, so they 0:12:06.520 --> 0:12:09.120 were all men, and they were all laughing when they 0:12:09.120 --> 0:12:11.400 were interrogating me in the room. It was like laughing 0:12:11.440 --> 0:12:14.280 and she's talking among themselves in English. I didn't know 0:12:14.360 --> 0:12:16.679 because the translator was not translated what they were saying. 0:12:17.280 --> 0:12:20.280 Carla needed a translator present because at the time she 0:12:20.400 --> 0:12:21.880 didn't speak much English. 0:12:22.200 --> 0:12:24.440 So they was just laughing about stuff, and I'm like 0:12:24.480 --> 0:12:27.679 looking at you know, So it was very embarrassing. They 0:12:27.720 --> 0:12:32.440 were so like eager to know things to how do 0:12:32.520 --> 0:12:36.160 you use it? And how many times? And what do 0:12:36.200 --> 0:12:39.600 you guys did, and it's like it was just very uncomfortable. 0:12:42.840 --> 0:12:46.079 So they were telling me that I abuse kids and 0:12:46.120 --> 0:12:48.880 the three kids and Maria and like that. And then 0:12:48.920 --> 0:12:51.640 I was like, whoa, you know. I said, please find 0:12:51.679 --> 0:12:54.400 out the truth because I didn't do none of these things. 0:12:54.920 --> 0:12:57.080 And then so, oh, are you sure? Are you should? 0:12:57.120 --> 0:12:59.760 I said yes, I am, Yes, I am. Can you 0:12:59.760 --> 0:13:03.760 please find out the truth? And then so they let 0:13:03.760 --> 0:13:04.040 me go. 0:13:04.040 --> 0:13:07.880 From there, Carla left and went back to her mom's house. 0:13:08.360 --> 0:13:11.080 About a month later, she says, Maria decided to visit 0:13:11.120 --> 0:13:16.959 her in La. Despite her allegations against Carla, I was. 0:13:16.880 --> 0:13:20.280 Going to the store with Maria when police came all everywhere, 0:13:20.440 --> 0:13:24.160 you know, and they like, they like, come my name, 0:13:24.240 --> 0:13:27.720 and then so so police and everybody was she's there, 0:13:27.760 --> 0:13:29.600 you know, and I'm like okay. They're like, you're being 0:13:29.679 --> 0:13:35.680 arrested for sexual abusing Maria Medinez kids. I'm like okay. 0:13:35.679 --> 0:13:38.280 So she was there with me, and then they put 0:13:38.280 --> 0:13:40.240 handcuffs on me and they put me in a police car. 0:13:42.480 --> 0:13:45.000 On March twenty ninth, two thousand and two, Carla was 0:13:45.000 --> 0:13:48.760 read her Miranda rights and officially arrested and holding Custoday, 0:13:49.200 --> 0:13:52.000 on May third, she was charged with multiple counts of 0:13:52.080 --> 0:13:58.360 child sexual abuse. Carla's little sister, Dulce, knows she didn't 0:13:58.400 --> 0:13:58.679 do this. 0:14:00.880 --> 0:14:05.160 I know she has a pure heart and she's not 0:14:05.240 --> 0:14:09.720 capable of a horrible thing like that. She was caring 0:14:09.800 --> 0:14:13.800 about us, about my nieces and nephews. I don't believe 0:14:13.800 --> 0:14:17.480 that they cool think that my sister was capable of 0:14:18.400 --> 0:14:19.320 that horrible thing. 0:14:28.040 --> 0:14:32.560 This episode is underwritten by AIG, a leading global insurance company. 0:14:32.800 --> 0:14:36.960 AIG is committed to corporate social responsibility and to making 0:14:37.000 --> 0:14:40.040 a positive difference in the lives of its employees and 0:14:40.160 --> 0:14:43.080 in the communities where we work and live. In light 0:14:43.160 --> 0:14:46.840 of the compelling need for pro bono legal assistance, and 0:14:46.880 --> 0:14:51.520 in recognition of AIG's commitment to criminal and social justice reform, 0:14:51.760 --> 0:14:55.960 the AIG pro Bono Program provides free legal services and 0:14:56.080 --> 0:15:04.960 other support to underrepresented communities and individuals. Carla's trial started 0:15:05.040 --> 0:15:08.040 June twenty sixth, two thousand and two. The prosecutor was 0:15:08.040 --> 0:15:11.960 Anna Ferguson, who called nurse George Anne Greene to the stand. 0:15:12.400 --> 0:15:15.000 The nurse testified that when she examined the children, the 0:15:15.080 --> 0:15:18.880 medical evidence showed they were molested. By this point, Child 0:15:18.920 --> 0:15:22.280 Protective Services had taken all four of Maria's children from her. 0:15:22.640 --> 0:15:26.240 They were now living with foster families. Only Cariina and 0:15:26.280 --> 0:15:30.240 Graciella testified during the trial, but their testimonies were largely 0:15:30.280 --> 0:15:33.680 inconsistent with each other and what they had previously reported. 0:15:34.240 --> 0:15:36.200 Carina said the day she and the other children were 0:15:36.240 --> 0:15:39.160 left alone with Carla, she saw Carla take off Fabian's 0:15:39.160 --> 0:15:42.160 clothes and touch his quote private. She also made a 0:15:42.280 --> 0:15:46.360 number of other even more serious allegations about Carla's actions, 0:15:46.880 --> 0:15:49.280 But when Graciella took the stand, the six year old 0:15:49.320 --> 0:15:52.080 said Carla didn't touch her and that she had never 0:15:52.120 --> 0:15:56.400 seen her touch the other children in a bad way. 0:15:57.160 --> 0:16:00.640 Jerry Holtgram was Carla's court appointed defense attorney. Although they 0:16:00.640 --> 0:16:04.560 have momentum after Graciella's eye opening testimony, he failed to 0:16:04.600 --> 0:16:08.600 cross examine her and other witnesses. He didn't even consult 0:16:08.720 --> 0:16:11.920 or present any experts in support of Carla or to 0:16:12.000 --> 0:16:15.680 refute the alleged medical evidence testified to you by nurse Green. 0:16:16.520 --> 0:16:19.000 Carla says he was a terrible attorney. 0:16:19.960 --> 0:16:22.040 He was always telling me, I'm gonna go visit you 0:16:22.120 --> 0:16:26.040 to talk with you about the case. Never did not 0:16:26.280 --> 0:16:29.120 one time. The only time that he spoke with me 0:16:29.320 --> 0:16:34.000 was at the moment of my trial, five minutes prior 0:16:34.040 --> 0:16:36.560 to that, and he said, are you innocent? I said, 0:16:36.560 --> 0:16:40.640 one hundred percent. This is what he say. My wife 0:16:41.040 --> 0:16:43.360 is at the hospital, so my head is over there. 0:16:44.560 --> 0:16:49.000 That's what he said. When when he said he was 0:16:49.040 --> 0:16:53.120 his head was on his wife's hospital, not me, I 0:16:53.280 --> 0:16:54.480 was like, whoa you know. 0:16:56.240 --> 0:16:59.800 Holgren would eventually be disbarred for reasons unrelated to Carlos. 0:17:02.160 --> 0:17:06.440 Without a rigorous defense, Carla was unsurprisingly found guilty after 0:17:06.520 --> 0:17:09.679 only two days of trial. She was sentenced to forty 0:17:09.720 --> 0:17:10.720 five years to life. 0:17:12.680 --> 0:17:17.520 When you're in court and they sentence you, you are 0:17:17.560 --> 0:17:20.400 being sentenced not for being a murderer or a robber, 0:17:20.720 --> 0:17:22.320 for being a child molester. 0:17:22.640 --> 0:17:27.800 Yes, what does that feel like? It was horrible. It 0:17:27.880 --> 0:17:32.399 was painful because I love the skits so much and 0:17:32.440 --> 0:17:36.399 I wanted to be a parent. And then she's thinking 0:17:36.480 --> 0:17:43.359 that you abuse somebody so innocent, and then they were 0:17:43.400 --> 0:17:44.399 saying that I did that. 0:17:52.160 --> 0:17:55.040 When she got to prison, Carla felt hopeless. She had 0:17:55.160 --> 0:17:57.159 escaped under US to come to the US to be 0:17:57.200 --> 0:18:00.560 free of persecution, only to be arrested for crime she 0:18:00.600 --> 0:18:01.919 maintains she did not commit. 0:18:05.920 --> 0:18:08.880 I was angry. I was angry not at the kids. 0:18:09.440 --> 0:18:12.800 I was angry at the law for not finding out 0:18:12.840 --> 0:18:17.680 the truth. So I was angry at the United States 0:18:18.880 --> 0:18:22.520 because they said, this is the United States, you know, 0:18:22.760 --> 0:18:26.160 And if I'm talking about Honduras, I will they can 0:18:26.200 --> 0:18:28.560 do whatever they want. But in the United States they 0:18:28.680 --> 0:18:30.800 find out the truth and they didn't. 0:18:33.480 --> 0:18:36.399 Her initial years in prison were bleak. Living in that 0:18:36.520 --> 0:18:39.800 environment was scary, and she still didn't speak any English, 0:18:40.040 --> 0:18:42.240 so she couldn't read any of her own documents to 0:18:42.320 --> 0:18:47.800 figure out how to help herself. By this time, Dulce 0:18:47.920 --> 0:18:49.879 had also made it to the US, and she was 0:18:49.880 --> 0:18:52.080 doing her best to try and help her sister out. 0:18:52.880 --> 0:18:57.080 I tried to look for help. I tried to hire 0:18:57.119 --> 0:19:04.480 an attorney. But when I get here and I went 0:19:04.520 --> 0:19:08.320 to that first appointment with the attorney, they say I 0:19:08.440 --> 0:19:18.080 need fifty thousand dollars to start with the case. And 0:19:18.119 --> 0:19:20.920 that was super hard. 0:19:20.560 --> 0:19:24.320 What did you do when this attorney said fifty thousand dollars? 0:19:24.359 --> 0:19:26.920 Did you think I can get that or did you think? 0:19:27.359 --> 0:19:29.600 You know we're doomed? 0:19:30.560 --> 0:19:33.600 At that time, I couldn't do anything. I was new 0:19:33.640 --> 0:19:36.639 to the country. I didn't know about God fundments, I 0:19:36.680 --> 0:19:41.600 didn't know about anything. I just say, I cannot afford 0:19:41.640 --> 0:19:48.159 that amount of money. We work really hard, but we 0:19:48.240 --> 0:19:53.720 cannot afford fifty thousand dollars. 0:19:55.080 --> 0:19:57.560 But Carla knew one way she might be able to 0:19:57.560 --> 0:19:58.000 get help. 0:19:59.119 --> 0:20:02.639 Had you ever thought thought about wrongful convictions before those? 0:20:03.560 --> 0:20:03.720 Uh? 0:20:04.560 --> 0:20:07.760 No, never. So I learned that when I went when 0:20:07.800 --> 0:20:10.600 I got to prison, and then so I used to 0:20:10.640 --> 0:20:14.080 watch CSI and stuff like that, and the you know, 0:20:14.280 --> 0:20:17.280 the in Spanish, of course, and then I always heard 0:20:17.320 --> 0:20:20.320 about Innocent Project and you know, but I didn't think 0:20:20.359 --> 0:20:21.080 it was true. 0:20:22.000 --> 0:20:24.600 At the prison, Carla made a connection with the California 0:20:24.640 --> 0:20:27.840 Coalition for Women's Prisoners. She asked them to send her 0:20:27.840 --> 0:20:30.440 information on organizations that might help her. 0:20:30.760 --> 0:20:33.640 So they did. They sent me a full pack of 0:20:33.680 --> 0:20:37.640 a lot of innocence projects. You know, but at that moment, 0:20:37.680 --> 0:20:41.040 I don't speaking English, so I say that paper. I 0:20:41.080 --> 0:20:44.440 say the paper work until I learned English. 0:20:44.600 --> 0:20:48.159 Eventually, Carla settled in and her perseverance kept her moving 0:20:48.200 --> 0:20:50.520 forward even while in prison. 0:20:51.359 --> 0:20:55.360 I overcame every obstacle in there is. It was up 0:20:55.400 --> 0:20:59.080 to me, you know, and what I was in there. 0:20:59.359 --> 0:21:04.679 I didn't let the walls consume me. I allow myself 0:21:04.800 --> 0:21:09.199 to expand myself, and they're like, get into I am 0:21:09.240 --> 0:21:14.479 facilitated for domestic violence. I earned my high school diploma 0:21:14.640 --> 0:21:17.360 and my AAD degree in arts and humanities. 0:21:18.160 --> 0:21:21.080 She also found a purpose in offering friendship to other 0:21:21.200 --> 0:21:22.240 incarcerated women. 0:21:23.000 --> 0:21:27.520 So that was keeping me sane in there, seeing other 0:21:27.600 --> 0:21:32.119 people smiling, and she's talking to people, and then she's like, 0:21:32.440 --> 0:21:34.160 you know a lot of times I had a friend 0:21:34.160 --> 0:21:36.560 who said, did you know her? I don't need to 0:21:36.600 --> 0:21:38.800 know her, what about she's going through something. I'm just 0:21:38.840 --> 0:21:41.080 gonna say hi, good morning, how are you You can 0:21:41.119 --> 0:21:43.720 change somebody's life in that moment, you know. So that 0:21:43.800 --> 0:21:47.840 was my my thing, was changing somebody's life every day. 0:21:48.920 --> 0:21:51.520 Carla was doing okay enough in prison, but the rest 0:21:51.560 --> 0:21:54.080 of her family was broken without her. 0:21:54.920 --> 0:22:01.600 Oh my goodness, it is hard for me thinking about 0:22:01.600 --> 0:22:07.440 my sister in that place, not being with us on Christmas, 0:22:08.040 --> 0:22:16.560 on my birthdays, we couldn't hug her with by that pass, 0:22:23.160 --> 0:22:26.600 and not sharing with her a lot of beautiful moments 0:22:26.600 --> 0:22:32.960 that we had when I had my first kid. It 0:22:33.040 --> 0:22:33.800 hurts my heart. 0:22:49.480 --> 0:22:52.960 Despite the distance from her family, Carla continued to strive, 0:22:53.320 --> 0:22:56.480 and that included learning English. With language as her tool, 0:22:56.600 --> 0:22:59.320 she was finally able to read the research documents on 0:22:59.400 --> 0:23:02.720 innocence PRIs she saved all those years ago, and when 0:23:02.760 --> 0:23:06.800 she did, she reached out to the Northern California Innocence Project. 0:23:07.560 --> 0:23:10.399 My name's Catherine Boyle and I'm a volunteer attorney with 0:23:10.440 --> 0:23:12.440 the Northern California Innocence Project. 0:23:13.840 --> 0:23:16.760 Catherine is one of the attorneys overseeing Carla's case at 0:23:16.760 --> 0:23:20.320 the NZIP, along with its co founder and executive director 0:23:20.480 --> 0:23:24.120 Linda Starr. Catherine says the first thing they did when 0:23:24.119 --> 0:23:26.960 they read Carla's letter was to try to obtain as 0:23:27.080 --> 0:23:30.720 much information about the case as they could, but unfortunately 0:23:31.000 --> 0:23:33.720 the only thing they could get was the trial transcripts. 0:23:34.000 --> 0:23:36.439 Even though there was not very much information that we 0:23:36.520 --> 0:23:40.119 had was that it looked like she had been wrongfully 0:23:40.119 --> 0:23:43.840 convicted and that there was bias against her based on 0:23:44.160 --> 0:23:47.280 her sexual orientation as well as her status as an 0:23:47.440 --> 0:23:48.680 undocumented immigrant. 0:23:50.240 --> 0:23:52.439 Can you elaborate on that a little bit? So, how 0:23:52.600 --> 0:23:55.040 was their bias against her in both of those ways? 0:23:55.240 --> 0:23:59.760 Yes, so the bias against her. It kind of pervaded 0:23:59.800 --> 0:24:03.600 the case in many different ways. One of the things 0:24:03.600 --> 0:24:07.400 that came out in the transcript was that both Carla's 0:24:07.480 --> 0:24:13.920 own attorney as well as the district attorney emphasized her 0:24:14.160 --> 0:24:16.359 status as a lesbian and the fact that she was 0:24:16.359 --> 0:24:20.000 in a lesbian relationship throughout the trial, even though it 0:24:20.040 --> 0:24:24.359 was totally irrelevant to the issues at hand. So that 0:24:25.000 --> 0:24:28.439 was one factor. There were also just assumptions about her 0:24:28.560 --> 0:24:32.800 based on her undocumented immigrant status, and one of the 0:24:32.800 --> 0:24:35.880 ways we found that out is as we were investigating 0:24:35.920 --> 0:24:39.439 her case, we did have an opportunity to talk to 0:24:39.840 --> 0:24:44.119 her attorney from the preliminary hearing, who at first did 0:24:44.200 --> 0:24:48.760 not remember her, but then when we jogged as memory 0:24:49.040 --> 0:24:52.679 by saying that she was from Honduras and speak Spanish, 0:24:52.760 --> 0:24:56.960 he very disparagingly said, oh, the little gay girl, and 0:24:57.240 --> 0:25:00.399 she wouldn't have been able to commit the crime hadn't 0:25:00.400 --> 0:25:01.280 been here illegally. 0:25:03.160 --> 0:25:07.239 Given the circumstances, the NCIP took Carla's case, believing in 0:25:07.280 --> 0:25:09.320 her innocence and botched trial. 0:25:09.800 --> 0:25:14.200 The younger daughter testified that Carla didn't touch her at all, 0:25:14.640 --> 0:25:18.760