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Speaker 1: A note for listeners, this episode contains discussion of alleged

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Speaker 1: child sexual abuse. Please alsome with caution and care.

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Speaker 2: Hey, may hey, Jason, you know, I'm so glad you're

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Speaker 2: focusing on women this season.

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Speaker 3: Absolutely, and so many of those women are in prison

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Speaker 3: for crimes that never.

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Speaker 4: Happens, times that never even happened.

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Speaker 2: Crime.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, And I think it's especially issues that women deal with,

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Speaker 3: you know, being persecuted for being gay or you know,

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Speaker 3: being sex trafficked. But I think in these instances and

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Speaker 3: these wrongful convictions, especially with the no crime convictions, it

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Speaker 3: happens to women a lot.

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Speaker 4: They like you being arrested for sexual abuse. In Maria medinezquid,

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Speaker 4: I said, please find out the truth because I didn't

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Speaker 4: do none of these things. Oh are you sure you should?

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Speaker 4: I say yes, I am, Yes, I am. Can you

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Speaker 4: please find out the truth.

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Speaker 1: From Lava for Good? This is wrongful conviction with Maggie

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Speaker 1: Freeling today Carlo Badet. In late January of two thousand

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Speaker 1: and two, twenty four year old Carla Badet was invited

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Speaker 1: to visit her ex girlfriend Maria Medina in Armona, in

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Speaker 1: California's San Joaquin Valley. It was Maria's birthday, and Carla

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Speaker 1: loved spending time with Maria's four young children, so she

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Speaker 1: accepted the invitation. She stayed for a week or so

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Speaker 1: and then went back home to Los Angeles. Shortly after

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Speaker 1: arriving home, the police came and brought Carla in for questioning.

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Speaker 1: Maria had called the police and said that Carla molested

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Speaker 1: three of her children during the visit. Carla was in

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Speaker 1: absolute shock, but knowing her relationship with the children, she

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Speaker 1: believed the situation would resolve itself. But as an undocumented

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Speaker 1: immigrant and a lesbian, Carla would have to navigate both

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Speaker 1: the alli gations and prejudice against her identity. She didn't

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Speaker 1: stand a chance. She was arrested and charged with multiple

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Speaker 1: accounts of child sexual abuse. After only two days of

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Speaker 1: trial and deliberations, the jury convicted her. She was sentenced

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Speaker 1: to forty five years to life. Who is Carla Bade?

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Speaker 4: Carla is just a happy spirit, That's what I am.

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Speaker 4: You know, a happy spirit in somebody who cares and

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Speaker 4: loves people. And she just loved being alive and being me.

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Speaker 4: I'm Carla Baday from Honduras, forty four years.

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Speaker 5: Old and how long were you incarcerated seventeen years.

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Speaker 1: Carla Badey was born in Honduras on June seventeenth, nineteen

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Speaker 1: seventy seven, to Julio Francisco Salgado and Sonya Mariciella in

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Speaker 1: a little town called Soyo. Carla grew up the fifth

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Speaker 1: of seven children. She was especially close with her youngest sibling.

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Speaker 2: My name is Joseba Day. I am Carla's little sister, Jisa.

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Speaker 1: Can you tell me what growing up in Honduras was

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Speaker 1: like with Carla?

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Speaker 2: Well, when I was in Honduras, I was ten or

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Speaker 2: twelve years old when Carla leave my country, and I

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Speaker 2: remember her. She was happy. She was as long as

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Speaker 2: I remember. She was so caring about us, my nieces

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Speaker 2: and nephews, they were babies, and you know, as a family,

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Speaker 2: I love her.

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Speaker 1: What do you remember? You know when she left? Because

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Speaker 1: Carla left to go to the United States. I mean,

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Speaker 1: do you understand what was going on or why she

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Speaker 1: was leaving at that time?

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Speaker 2: Not at that time, I realized when I get older,

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Speaker 2: oh my god, I'm about to cry. I know she

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Speaker 2: lives because our country was her for her. I do

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Speaker 2: remember that she was fighting a lot with my mom

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Speaker 2: in Oh my goodness, I'm sorry.

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Speaker 1: Carla wasn't happy in Honduras.

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Speaker 4: When I was growing up, I knew that I was different,

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Speaker 4: and I was like six seven years old, I knew

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Speaker 4: I was different. And then I started knowing that I

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Speaker 4: didn't like boys because everybody was like, oh, you like

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Speaker 4: this boy? Do you like this boy? And I'm like, no,

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Speaker 4: I like the girl. You know.

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Speaker 1: From a young age, Carla knew she was gay, but

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Speaker 1: in Honduras she couldn't be herself.

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Speaker 4: Being in that country, you cannot say too much about

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Speaker 4: your sexuality because it's just a Catholic, you know, and

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Speaker 4: they don't like gay people over there. You can get killed,

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Speaker 4: you can get rape, you can get do a lot

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Speaker 4: of things.

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Speaker 1: Carlo says, from the time she was fifteen to twenty

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Speaker 1: years old, she was harassed by local.

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Speaker 4: Gangs, the gangs from the town, and they were like, okay,

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Speaker 4: so you look like you're gay and stuff like that.

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Speaker 4: So they were trying to rape me and trying to

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Speaker 4: you know, abuse me or stuff like that and fight

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Speaker 4: me or whatever. So I decided to leave. That was

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Speaker 4: my time to leave, because if not, I would have

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Speaker 4: got killed over there. So and I came to the

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Speaker 4: United States. When I was twenty years old.

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Speaker 1: In January nine, ten ninety nine, Carla left everything she

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Speaker 1: knew in Honduras to journey to the United States.

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Speaker 4: That was scary. I went. I went to the border

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Speaker 4: of Salvador, then from Estalbador to Watela Watermela in Mexico,

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Speaker 4: Mexico to the United States. So when I when I'm

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Speaker 4: crossing the border, it's a lot of things going on,

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Speaker 4: and that you you get assaulted by people in there

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Speaker 4: with the mascons. And I was like eight days without eating.

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Speaker 4: My feet were bleeding from walking so much out in shower.

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Speaker 4: I had even lies in my head, you know, and

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Speaker 4: it takes in my body because I was sleeping on

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Speaker 4: the barns. I was sleeping whatever I can sleep. At

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Speaker 4: one point, I was so tired that I was like,

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Speaker 4: what should I do? But you know, I don't want

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Speaker 4: to go back because I knew what was going to happen.

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Speaker 4: So I keep pushing forward and saying, no, you got it,

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Speaker 4: you gotta do it, you gotta do it.

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Speaker 1: Carla ended up crossing through the desert with some food

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Speaker 1: and water, but very little. She became incredibly thirsty and

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Speaker 1: at some point she found a pot of dirty water

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Speaker 1: that cows used.

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Speaker 4: Would they do their their necessities? And I'm like, I'm

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Speaker 4: going to have to drink this water. So that's what

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Speaker 4: I did. I went and got the water and I

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Speaker 4: started drinking the water, even though it was gross, but

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Speaker 4: it was I feel like I was dehydrated, completely dehydrated

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Speaker 4: because it was it was hot.

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Speaker 1: Finally, Carla made it through the desert and into the

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Speaker 1: United States. She arrived in February of nineteen ninety nine,

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Speaker 1: and she felt safe from the dangers she faced in Honduras.

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Speaker 1: As the year wore on, Carla settled into her new

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Speaker 1: life as an openly gay woman in the United States.

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Speaker 1: She was looking forward to having a family and kids

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Speaker 1: and just a normal life. She started dating too. One night,

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Speaker 1: she was in Harmona and went out to a bar

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Speaker 1: with a and there she met someone.

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Speaker 4: I was used to go play pool because I like

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Speaker 4: to play pool, and then I met Maria.

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Speaker 1: At first, Carla wasn't interested in pursuing anything with Maria,

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Speaker 1: but Maria was persistent.

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Speaker 4: Finally I got with her, you know, so it's like

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Speaker 4: finally I said, okay, you know, it's like, let's do it.

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Speaker 4: So I started dating her and then we started dating

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Speaker 4: and then moving with her. She was living in her

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Speaker 4: house with four kids, and so I moved in with her.

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Speaker 4: And you wanted kid, you wanted a family. I wanted

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Speaker 4: a family and she had kids.

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Speaker 5: So at first it was happy.

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Speaker 1: At first, yes, Carla and Maria enjoyed their time together

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Speaker 1: for the first few months. Carla loved the four kids, Tony, Corina, Graciela,

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Speaker 1: and Fabian. She loved being a mom to them. But

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Speaker 1: things between her and Maria eventually started to change.

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Speaker 4: And then everything became like an obsession or I don't

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Speaker 4: know what it was, but it was like controlling, more controlling,

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Speaker 4: and it's like she was not allowing me to talk

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Speaker 4: to my family in the phone, because not everybody from

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Speaker 4: my family was his. She's my brother. But I was

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Speaker 4: calling Honduras. She was not allowing me to talk to

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Speaker 4: my family. She was not allowed me to go to

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Speaker 4: the store by myself. I had to go with one

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Speaker 4: of her kids. And then she was questioning the kids

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Speaker 4: when I was coming back from the store, like if

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Speaker 4: I talked to a girl, if I did this, and

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Speaker 4: you know, and then and then she was threatening me

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Speaker 4: to call immigration if I did something to return me

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Speaker 4: back to my country.

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Speaker 1: Carla lived like this for months. After about a year

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Speaker 1: and a half, they broke up. At this point, Carla

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Speaker 1: says Maria was a heavy methemphetamine user and many aspects

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Speaker 1: of the relationship had become unbearable. By this time, Carla's

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Speaker 1: mother had also moved to the US, which helped Carla

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Speaker 1: to realize home wasn't necessarily with Maria.

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Speaker 4: So I left. I left from her house to my

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Speaker 4: mom's house, back to La.

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Speaker 1: Some time went by, then in late January of two

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Speaker 1: thousand and two, Maria invited Carla back to celebrate her birthday.

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Speaker 1: Carla was excited to see the children, who she cared

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Speaker 1: for dearly, so she accepted the invitation. She stayed there

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Speaker 1: for a little over a week and then returned to La.

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Speaker 4: And then an afternoon, my mom was telling me Maria,

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Speaker 4: I been calling you, Maria being calling you. I said, okay,

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Speaker 4: so I'll call you back. I said yes, he said,

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Speaker 4: you abuse my kids. I said, excuse me, and she's

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Speaker 4: like yes, I said, you should be calling the police.

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Speaker 4: You don't call me, you call the police.

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Speaker 1: And then Carla says Maria threatened her.

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Speaker 4: She said, if you're not with me, I will kill

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Speaker 4: you or you will be in prison forever. That's what

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Speaker 4: the two thread that she gave me. And then so said, well,

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Speaker 4: you can do whatever, you know. I know I'm innocent

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Speaker 4: and you can do your part, you know. So later

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Speaker 4: that week she did she called the police and then

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Speaker 4: later that week two officers came to visit mea La.

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Speaker 1: The officers took her down to the station for questioning

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Speaker 1: under the allegations that she abused Maria's kids. They told

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Speaker 1: her the kids said that while Maria was at the

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Speaker 1: store with her eleven year old son Tony, Carla sexually

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Speaker 1: molested the other children, Carina, Graciela Fabian, who were seven, six,

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Speaker 1: and four at the time. The detectives who interviewed her

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Speaker 1: were Jeff Torres and Mark Lusk, but their questions were

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Speaker 1: not what you'd expect. The detectives asked more about Carla's

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Speaker 1: sex life with Maria than they did about her relationship

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Speaker 1: with the kids. She says. They asked her if she

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Speaker 1: and Maria used any sex toys and what kinds of

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Speaker 1: toys they were.

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Speaker 6: How did you feel when they were asking you about

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Speaker 6: your sex toys and your sex life.

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Speaker 4: It was very embarrassing, especially because they were all men.

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Speaker 4: It was I'm the only female in there, so they

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Speaker 4: were all men, and they were all laughing when they

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Speaker 4: were interrogating me in the room. It was like laughing

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Speaker 4: and she's talking among themselves in English. I didn't know

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Speaker 4: because the translator was not translated what they were saying.

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Speaker 1: Carla needed a translator present because at the time she

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Speaker 1: didn't speak much English.

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Speaker 4: So they was just laughing about stuff, and I'm like

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Speaker 4: looking at you know, So it was very embarrassing. They

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Speaker 4: were so like eager to know things to how do

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Speaker 4: you use it? And how many times? And what do

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Speaker 4: you guys did, and it's like it was just very uncomfortable.

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Speaker 4: So they were telling me that I abuse kids and

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Speaker 4: the three kids and Maria and like that. And then

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Speaker 4: I was like, whoa, you know. I said, please find

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Speaker 4: out the truth because I didn't do none of these things.

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Speaker 4: And then so, oh, are you sure? Are you should?

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Speaker 4: I said yes, I am, Yes, I am. Can you

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Speaker 4: please find out the truth? And then so they let

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Speaker 4: me go.

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Speaker 1: From there, Carla left and went back to her mom's house.

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Speaker 1: About a month later, she says, Maria decided to visit

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Speaker 1: her in La. Despite her allegations against Carla, I was.

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Speaker 4: Going to the store with Maria when police came all everywhere,

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Speaker 4: you know, and they like, they like, come my name,

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Speaker 4: and then so so police and everybody was she's there,

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Speaker 4: you know, and I'm like okay. They're like, you're being

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Speaker 4: arrested for sexual abusing Maria Medinez kids. I'm like okay.

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Speaker 4: So she was there with me, and then they put

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Speaker 4: handcuffs on me and they put me in a police car.

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Speaker 1: On March twenty ninth, two thousand and two, Carla was

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Speaker 1: read her Miranda rights and officially arrested and holding Custoday,

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Speaker 1: on May third, she was charged with multiple counts of

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Speaker 1: child sexual abuse. Carla's little sister, Dulce, knows she didn't

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Speaker 1: do this.

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Speaker 2: I know she has a pure heart and she's not

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Speaker 2: capable of a horrible thing like that. She was caring

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Speaker 2: about us, about my nieces and nephews. I don't believe

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Speaker 2: that they cool think that my sister was capable of

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Speaker 2: that horrible thing.

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Speaker 1: This episode is underwritten by AIG, a leading global insurance company.

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Speaker 1: AIG is committed to corporate social responsibility and to making

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Speaker 1: a positive difference in the lives of its employees and

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Speaker 1: in the communities where we work and live. In light

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Speaker 1: of the compelling need for pro bono legal assistance, and

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Speaker 1: in recognition of AIG's commitment to criminal and social justice reform,

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Speaker 1: the AIG pro Bono Program provides free legal services and

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Speaker 1: other support to underrepresented communities and individuals. Carla's trial started

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Speaker 1: June twenty sixth, two thousand and two. The prosecutor was

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Speaker 1: Anna Ferguson, who called nurse George Anne Greene to the stand.

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Speaker 1: The nurse testified that when she examined the children, the

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Speaker 1: medical evidence showed they were molested. By this point, Child

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Speaker 1: Protective Services had taken all four of Maria's children from her.

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Speaker 1: They were now living with foster families. Only Cariina and

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Speaker 1: Graciella testified during the trial, but their testimonies were largely

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Speaker 1: inconsistent with each other and what they had previously reported.

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Speaker 1: Carina said the day she and the other children were

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Speaker 1: left alone with Carla, she saw Carla take off Fabian's

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Speaker 1: clothes and touch his quote private. She also made a

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Speaker 1: number of other even more serious allegations about Carla's actions,

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Speaker 1: But when Graciella took the stand, the six year old

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Speaker 1: said Carla didn't touch her and that she had never

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Speaker 1: seen her touch the other children in a bad way.

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Speaker 1: Jerry Holtgram was Carla's court appointed defense attorney. Although they

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Speaker 1: have momentum after Graciella's eye opening testimony, he failed to

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Speaker 1: cross examine her and other witnesses. He didn't even consult

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Speaker 1: or present any experts in support of Carla or to

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Speaker 1: refute the alleged medical evidence testified to you by nurse Green.

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Speaker 1: Carla says he was a terrible attorney.

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Speaker 4: He was always telling me, I'm gonna go visit you

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Speaker 4: to talk with you about the case. Never did not

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Speaker 4: one time. The only time that he spoke with me

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Speaker 4: was at the moment of my trial, five minutes prior

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Speaker 4: to that, and he said, are you innocent? I said,

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Speaker 4: one hundred percent. This is what he say. My wife

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Speaker 4: is at the hospital, so my head is over there.

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Speaker 4: That's what he said. When when he said he was

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Speaker 4: his head was on his wife's hospital, not me, I

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Speaker 4: was like, whoa you know.

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Speaker 1: Holgren would eventually be disbarred for reasons unrelated to Carlos.

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Speaker 1: Without a rigorous defense, Carla was unsurprisingly found guilty after

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Speaker 1: only two days of trial. She was sentenced to forty

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Speaker 1: five years to life.

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Speaker 6: When you're in court and they sentence you, you are

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Speaker 6: being sentenced not for being a murderer or a robber,

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Speaker 6: for being a child molester.

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Speaker 4: Yes, what does that feel like? It was horrible. It

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Speaker 4: was painful because I love the skits so much and

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Speaker 4: I wanted to be a parent. And then she's thinking

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Speaker 4: that you abuse somebody so innocent, and then they were

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Speaker 4: saying that I did that.

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Speaker 1: When she got to prison, Carla felt hopeless. She had

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Speaker 1: escaped under US to come to the US to be

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Speaker 1: free of persecution, only to be arrested for crime she

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Speaker 1: maintains she did not commit.

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Speaker 4: I was angry. I was angry not at the kids.

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Speaker 4: I was angry at the law for not finding out

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Speaker 4: the truth. So I was angry at the United States

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Speaker 4: because they said, this is the United States, you know,

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Speaker 4: And if I'm talking about Honduras, I will they can

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Speaker 4: do whatever they want. But in the United States they

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Speaker 4: find out the truth and they didn't.

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Speaker 1: Her initial years in prison were bleak. Living in that

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Speaker 1: environment was scary, and she still didn't speak any English,

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Speaker 1: so she couldn't read any of her own documents to

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Speaker 1: figure out how to help herself. By this time, Dulce

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Speaker 1: had also made it to the US, and she was

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Speaker 1: doing her best to try and help her sister out.

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Speaker 2: I tried to look for help. I tried to hire

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Speaker 2: an attorney. But when I get here and I went

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Speaker 2: to that first appointment with the attorney, they say I

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Speaker 2: need fifty thousand dollars to start with the case. And

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Speaker 2: that was super hard.

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Speaker 1: What did you do when this attorney said fifty thousand dollars?

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Speaker 1: Did you think I can get that or did you think?

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Speaker 1: You know we're doomed?

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Speaker 2: At that time, I couldn't do anything. I was new

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Speaker 2: to the country. I didn't know about God fundments, I

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Speaker 2: didn't know about anything. I just say, I cannot afford

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Speaker 2: that amount of money. We work really hard, but we

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Speaker 2: cannot afford fifty thousand dollars.

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Speaker 1: But Carla knew one way she might be able to

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Speaker 1: get help.

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Speaker 6: Had you ever thought thought about wrongful convictions before those?

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Speaker 5: Uh?

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Speaker 4: No, never. So I learned that when I went when

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Speaker 4: I got to prison, and then so I used to

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Speaker 4: watch CSI and stuff like that, and the you know,

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Speaker 4: the in Spanish, of course, and then I always heard

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Speaker 4: about Innocent Project and you know, but I didn't think

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Speaker 4: it was true.

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Speaker 1: At the prison, Carla made a connection with the California

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Speaker 1: Coalition for Women's Prisoners. She asked them to send her

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Speaker 1: information on organizations that might help her.

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Speaker 4: So they did. They sent me a full pack of

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Speaker 4: a lot of innocence projects. You know, but at that moment,

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Speaker 4: I don't speaking English, so I say that paper. I

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Speaker 4: say the paper work until I learned English.

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Speaker 1: Eventually, Carla settled in and her perseverance kept her moving

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Speaker 1: forward even while in prison.

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Speaker 4: I overcame every obstacle in there is. It was up

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Speaker 4: to me, you know, and what I was in there.

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Speaker 4: I didn't let the walls consume me. I allow myself

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Speaker 4: to expand myself, and they're like, get into I am

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Speaker 4: facilitated for domestic violence. I earned my high school diploma

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Speaker 4: and my AAD degree in arts and humanities.

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Speaker 1: She also found a purpose in offering friendship to other

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Speaker 1: incarcerated women.

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Speaker 4: So that was keeping me sane in there, seeing other

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Speaker 4: people smiling, and she's talking to people, and then she's like,

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Speaker 4: you know a lot of times I had a friend

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Speaker 4: who said, did you know her? I don't need to

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Speaker 4: know her, what about she's going through something. I'm just

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Speaker 4: gonna say hi, good morning, how are you You can

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Speaker 4: change somebody's life in that moment, you know. So that

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Speaker 4: was my my thing, was changing somebody's life every day.

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Speaker 1: Carla was doing okay enough in prison, but the rest

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Speaker 1: of her family was broken without her.

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Speaker 2: Oh my goodness, it is hard for me thinking about

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Speaker 2: my sister in that place, not being with us on Christmas,

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Speaker 2: on my birthdays, we couldn't hug her with by that pass,

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Speaker 2: and not sharing with her a lot of beautiful moments

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Speaker 2: that we had when I had my first kid. It

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Speaker 2: hurts my heart.

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Speaker 1: Despite the distance from her family, Carla continued to strive,

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Speaker 1: and that included learning English. With language as her tool,

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Speaker 1: she was finally able to read the research documents on

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Speaker 1: innocence PRIs she saved all those years ago, and when

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Speaker 1: she did, she reached out to the Northern California Innocence Project.

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Speaker 7: My name's Catherine Boyle and I'm a volunteer attorney with

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Speaker 7: the Northern California Innocence Project.

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Speaker 1: Catherine is one of the attorneys overseeing Carla's case at

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Speaker 1: the NZIP, along with its co founder and executive director

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Speaker 1: Linda Starr. Catherine says the first thing they did when

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Speaker 1: they read Carla's letter was to try to obtain as

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Speaker 1: much information about the case as they could, but unfortunately

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Speaker 1: the only thing they could get was the trial transcripts.

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Speaker 7: Even though there was not very much information that we

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Speaker 7: had was that it looked like she had been wrongfully

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Speaker 7: convicted and that there was bias against her based on

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Speaker 7: her sexual orientation as well as her status as an

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Speaker 7: undocumented immigrant.

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Speaker 6: Can you elaborate on that a little bit? So, how

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Speaker 6: was their bias against her in both of those ways?

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Speaker 7: Yes, so the bias against her. It kind of pervaded

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Speaker 7: the case in many different ways. One of the things

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Speaker 7: that came out in the transcript was that both Carla's

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Speaker 7: own attorney as well as the district attorney emphasized her

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Speaker 7: status as a lesbian and the fact that she was

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Speaker 7: in a lesbian relationship throughout the trial, even though it

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Speaker 7: was totally irrelevant to the issues at hand. So that

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Speaker 7: was one factor. There were also just assumptions about her

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Speaker 7: based on her undocumented immigrant status, and one of the

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Speaker 7: ways we found that out is as we were investigating

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Speaker 7: her case, we did have an opportunity to talk to

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Speaker 7: her attorney from the preliminary hearing, who at first did

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Speaker 7: not remember her, but then when we jogged as memory

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Speaker 7: by saying that she was from Honduras and speak Spanish,

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Speaker 7: he very disparagingly said, oh, the little gay girl, and

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Speaker 7: she wouldn't have been able to commit the crime hadn't

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Speaker 7: been here illegally.

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Speaker 1: Given the circumstances, the NCIP took Carla's case, believing in

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Speaker 1: her innocence and botched trial.

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Speaker 7: The younger daughter testified that Carla didn't touch her at all,

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Speaker 7: and the older daughter testified inconsistently with what she had

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Speaker 7: said at other times. And yet Carla's attorney did not

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Speaker 7: pick up on any of that, nor did he cross

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Speaker 7: examine the nurse expert or get an expert on behalf

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Speaker 7: of Carla to testify that there was no basis in

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Speaker 7: medical science for what the nurse was attesting to.

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Speaker 6: Was there a reason why he didn't call his own experts.

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Speaker 7: Gosh, we would love to know that. I don't know.

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Speaker 7: I have to think part of it was the fact

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Speaker 7: of there just seemed to be tunnel vision as to

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Speaker 7: Carla's guilt throughout the process, and as I said, partially

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Speaker 7: due to the fact of her status. I also have

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Speaker 7: to say it probably had to do with some financial reasons.

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Speaker 1: By this, Catherine is referring to how Little Carla's lawyer

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Speaker 1: was earning from the state for defending her.

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Speaker 7: It was a short two day trial. They get paid

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Speaker 7: a flat fee, and so I think there was not

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Speaker 7: much incentive for him to really investigate the case in

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Speaker 7: the way it needed to be investigated.

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Speaker 1: But the NCIP did their due diligence.

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Speaker 7: So the only thing that we had to operate off

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Speaker 7: of were the trial transcripts. So we actually sent the

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Speaker 7: transcripts to one of the premier child sexual assault experts

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Speaker 7: in the state of California, who is director at UCSF

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Speaker 7: Benioff Hospital and one of only approximately two dozen boards

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Speaker 7: certified child abuse pediatricians in California. He reviewed the transcripts

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Speaker 7: and he said it looked like this was false testimony

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Speaker 7: and that what the nurse was testifying to as evidence

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Speaker 7: of abuse was in fact potentially normal human anatomy. So

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Speaker 7: with that, and with some of the inconsistencies in the

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Speaker 7: children's statements and testimonies, we were able to file a

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Speaker 7: rid of habeas corpus based off of false medical evidence,

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Speaker 7: new evidence, as well as ineffective assistance of counsel.

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Speaker 1: After they filed their petition Carla's team was granted an

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Speaker 1: opportunity to show cause, which means they were finally able

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Speaker 1: to get all of the records in the.

437
00:27:37,440 --> 00:27:43,120
Speaker 7: Case and find out really what happened in these medical exams.

438
00:27:43,520 --> 00:27:47,160
Speaker 7: And with the medical records, we saw a box checked

439
00:27:47,160 --> 00:27:51,440
Speaker 7: on the forms that said that there were videotapes.

440
00:27:51,080 --> 00:27:55,280
Speaker 1: Which showed the physical examinations of the children's private parts.

441
00:27:55,440 --> 00:27:58,119
Speaker 7: And so we were able to track down the videotapes

442
00:27:58,359 --> 00:28:02,400
Speaker 7: of the children's exams and show those to our expert,

443
00:28:02,600 --> 00:28:07,000
Speaker 7: who was able to say conclusively, this is normal human anatomy.

444
00:28:07,200 --> 00:28:08,120
Speaker 7: She didn't know what she was.

445
00:28:08,080 --> 00:28:12,439
Speaker 1: Talking about, meaning the nurse who had testified. After reviewing

446
00:28:12,480 --> 00:28:15,240
Speaker 1: the tapes, Catherine and her team were granted and evidentiary

447
00:28:15,240 --> 00:28:17,840
Speaker 1: hearing where they could present this information to a judge

448
00:28:18,160 --> 00:28:22,239
Speaker 1: and make their case that Carla is actually innocent. But

449
00:28:22,280 --> 00:28:24,720
Speaker 1: their plans went in another direction.

450
00:28:25,200 --> 00:28:29,800
Speaker 7: So we never got to the evidentiary hearing. What happened

451
00:28:30,000 --> 00:28:33,480
Speaker 7: was we were very close to the evidentiary hearing and

452
00:28:33,680 --> 00:28:37,399
Speaker 7: everyone was ready, including our big team of law students

453
00:28:37,440 --> 00:28:41,680
Speaker 7: and Linda Starr and me. We were all ready when

454
00:28:42,000 --> 00:28:46,320
Speaker 7: a report came in from the DA's medical expert, who

455
00:28:47,080 --> 00:28:51,560
Speaker 7: agreed with our expert that there was no evidence of

456
00:28:51,760 --> 00:28:55,040
Speaker 7: sexual abuse. And then it was soon after that that

457
00:28:55,120 --> 00:28:59,920
Speaker 7: they decided to stipulate to reverse Carla's conviction, which we.

458
00:29:00,080 --> 00:29:03,080
Speaker 6: D So what was that like for all of you?

459
00:29:03,560 --> 00:29:07,040
Speaker 7: Oh, it was so exciting, so exciting, I mean, just

460
00:29:07,400 --> 00:29:09,680
Speaker 7: felt like such a victory. But it was only the

461
00:29:09,720 --> 00:29:13,520
Speaker 7: beginning because they then insisted that they were going to

462
00:29:13,560 --> 00:29:16,320
Speaker 7: retry Carla on the original charges.

463
00:29:16,920 --> 00:29:19,440
Speaker 6: So my question is where were the children at this point?

464
00:29:19,480 --> 00:29:21,680
Speaker 6: If they were going to retry they would have to

465
00:29:21,720 --> 00:29:22,520
Speaker 6: testify again.

466
00:29:23,080 --> 00:29:26,280
Speaker 7: Well, that's an interesting question. They were no longer in

467
00:29:26,400 --> 00:29:30,200
Speaker 7: the state, and it seemed like they were not going

468
00:29:30,240 --> 00:29:33,560
Speaker 7: to testify at trial based on a notice that the

469
00:29:33,760 --> 00:29:37,840
Speaker 7: DA had served upon us. So basically because they no

470
00:29:37,880 --> 00:29:40,800
Speaker 7: longer had the medical evidence, their case would have been

471
00:29:41,040 --> 00:29:45,920
Speaker 7: the prior trial testimony of the children, which again one

472
00:29:45,960 --> 00:29:49,080
Speaker 7: didn't testify, one said Carla didn't touch her, and the

473
00:29:49,120 --> 00:29:54,760
Speaker 7: other testified inconsistently with some other reports of her statement.

474
00:29:59,360 --> 00:30:01,760
Speaker 1: Carla's in a since was evident at this point and

475
00:30:01,800 --> 00:30:05,520
Speaker 1: the state had an incredibly weak case, but they insisted

476
00:30:05,560 --> 00:30:08,560
Speaker 1: on charging her with something, so they told her either

477
00:30:08,680 --> 00:30:11,840
Speaker 1: accept a plea deal or face a retrial, and after

478
00:30:11,880 --> 00:30:14,800
Speaker 1: seventeen years in prison, Carla just wanted to go home.

479
00:30:15,280 --> 00:30:18,200
Speaker 1: She didn't plead guilty to any charges of child molestation

480
00:30:18,320 --> 00:30:21,840
Speaker 1: or abuse, but to a charge called false imprisonment, which

481
00:30:21,880 --> 00:30:25,200
Speaker 1: basically means holding someone against their will. Carla was not

482
00:30:25,200 --> 00:30:28,360
Speaker 1: guilty of this, nor of child molestation, but she had

483
00:30:28,400 --> 00:30:32,000
Speaker 1: no choice. She accepted the plea and was released from prison.

484
00:30:36,320 --> 00:30:42,560
Speaker 2: I still remember that day when they told me Carla

485
00:30:42,600 --> 00:30:47,320
Speaker 2: will be out. Oh my goodness, that was the best

486
00:30:47,360 --> 00:30:54,880
Speaker 2: thing that I could ever ask. You know, I was,

487
00:30:57,040 --> 00:31:01,520
Speaker 2: first of all thanking God because she was getting out.

488
00:31:02,440 --> 00:31:06,320
Speaker 2: I was how can I say relieve that she was

489
00:31:07,960 --> 00:31:09,200
Speaker 2: no longer in that place.

490
00:31:18,200 --> 00:31:22,600
Speaker 1: But Carla's journey through the United States carceral system wasn't over.

491
00:31:23,440 --> 00:31:26,560
Speaker 7: What would normally happen is there would be some processing

492
00:31:27,000 --> 00:31:30,400
Speaker 7: and we were all waiting out in the hallway, and

493
00:31:30,880 --> 00:31:37,080
Speaker 7: Carla should have been walking joyfully out to us. But

494
00:31:37,560 --> 00:31:42,120
Speaker 7: as I mentioned before, Carla is an undocumented immigrant, and

495
00:31:42,280 --> 00:31:45,160
Speaker 7: so what happened was, while we were waiting out in

496
00:31:45,200 --> 00:31:48,480
Speaker 7: the hallway for Carla's release, Ice went in the back

497
00:31:48,520 --> 00:31:53,400
Speaker 7: door and took Carla without telling us.

498
00:31:55,000 --> 00:31:58,800
Speaker 1: Carla went straight from prison to the ote Mesa detention center.

499
00:31:59,160 --> 00:32:01,880
Speaker 1: The NCIP team was devastated.

500
00:32:02,240 --> 00:32:04,320
Speaker 7: We had clothes for her, We wanted to give her

501
00:32:04,360 --> 00:32:08,520
Speaker 7: a hug. There was no chance to celebrate any of

502
00:32:08,560 --> 00:32:13,640
Speaker 7: the excitement of Carla being released after all that time.

503
00:32:17,840 --> 00:32:20,640
Speaker 1: Carla spent about a month in iced attention before she

504
00:32:20,720 --> 00:32:22,520
Speaker 1: was released and finally free.

505
00:32:23,120 --> 00:32:25,120
Speaker 4: It was up and down. I was happy, I was sad,

506
00:32:25,160 --> 00:32:27,000
Speaker 4: I was happy, I was sad. It was like a

507
00:32:27,080 --> 00:32:28,040
Speaker 4: roller coaster for me.

508
00:32:34,680 --> 00:32:37,720
Speaker 1: Carla currently has a lawsuit pending against the numerous parties

509
00:32:37,920 --> 00:32:41,480
Speaker 1: whose misconduct led to her wrongful conviction. Among other things,

510
00:32:41,520 --> 00:32:44,160
Speaker 1: the lawsuit alleges that the medical evidence against her was

511
00:32:44,160 --> 00:32:50,080
Speaker 1: fabricated and condoned by county officials. These days, Carla works

512
00:32:50,160 --> 00:32:51,080
Speaker 1: as a landscaper.

513
00:32:52,840 --> 00:32:57,040
Speaker 4: It's good because I go beside with the nature and

514
00:32:57,160 --> 00:32:59,360
Speaker 4: it's not too many people. Because I cannot be around

515
00:32:59,400 --> 00:33:04,760
Speaker 4: too many people. I'm still battling with my struggles coming

516
00:33:04,760 --> 00:33:09,440
Speaker 4: out because when I can, I sleep, put the lights off,

517
00:33:10,360 --> 00:33:12,240
Speaker 4: or I have to check the doors to be locked,

518
00:33:12,280 --> 00:33:14,200
Speaker 4: because you have to make sure that nobody's going to

519
00:33:14,280 --> 00:33:15,280
Speaker 4: beat you up in prison.

520
00:33:16,400 --> 00:33:19,440
Speaker 1: Considering the trauma she experienced from being in prison as

521
00:33:19,480 --> 00:33:22,120
Speaker 1: well as from her journey to the US. I asked

522
00:33:22,120 --> 00:33:24,280
Speaker 1: her about therapy.

523
00:33:24,480 --> 00:33:28,480
Speaker 4: Yes, I have therapies every Wednesday. It's pretty good. So

524
00:33:29,880 --> 00:33:33,680
Speaker 4: Erica that's her name's she worked with the exonerated people before,

525
00:33:33,760 --> 00:33:35,360
Speaker 4: so so she's pretty good.

526
00:33:35,800 --> 00:33:37,720
Speaker 6: So your your spirit is still intact.

527
00:33:37,960 --> 00:33:38,720
Speaker 3: You're smiling.

528
00:33:38,920 --> 00:33:39,160
Speaker 5: Yes.

529
00:33:39,200 --> 00:33:42,080
Speaker 4: And then I have wonderful nieces and nephews. They drive

530
00:33:42,160 --> 00:33:44,840
Speaker 4: me nuts. You know. It's like they said, I have

531
00:33:44,960 --> 00:33:47,720
Speaker 4: my baby. They said she's my daughter, because you know,

532
00:33:47,800 --> 00:33:51,160
Speaker 4: she's a little bit like me. So so I go

533
00:33:51,320 --> 00:33:53,680
Speaker 4: visit her and then sometimes I take her to the

534
00:33:53,680 --> 00:33:55,120
Speaker 4: house and stay with us, you know.

535
00:33:55,280 --> 00:33:58,560
Speaker 1: So in addition to the nieces and nephews around her,

536
00:33:58,800 --> 00:34:01,640
Speaker 1: Carla has a new loving partner, Blanca.

537
00:34:02,320 --> 00:34:04,480
Speaker 4: I have a beautiful family. She has a daughter.

538
00:34:04,920 --> 00:34:06,960
Speaker 6: I was gonna ask, so you have the family you

539
00:34:07,000 --> 00:34:07,480
Speaker 6: always wants.

540
00:34:07,560 --> 00:34:09,719
Speaker 4: Yes, yes, yes, yes I do.

541
00:34:11,600 --> 00:34:14,319
Speaker 1: Carla is still afraid to return to Honduras and has

542
00:34:14,360 --> 00:34:15,880
Speaker 1: applied for asylum.

543
00:34:15,440 --> 00:34:16,680
Speaker 5: In the US.

544
00:34:19,040 --> 00:34:20,600
Speaker 1: If you'd like to help support the work of the

545
00:34:20,640 --> 00:34:24,920
Speaker 1: Northern California Innocents Project, go to NCIP dot org slash

546
00:34:25,040 --> 00:34:29,680
Speaker 1: get dash involved. Carla would especially like to thank Jim

547
00:34:29,719 --> 00:34:35,719
Speaker 1: Montenaro for his generosity. Next time on Wrongful Conviction with

548
00:34:35,760 --> 00:34:37,920
Speaker 1: Maggie Freeling Alicia Burns.

549
00:34:38,960 --> 00:34:41,360
Speaker 8: You know, there were lots of things on TV about

550
00:34:41,680 --> 00:34:45,600
Speaker 8: human trafficking and sex trafficking and what it looks like,

551
00:34:45,800 --> 00:34:49,439
Speaker 8: and there was more awareness about it, and I thought, oh,

552
00:34:49,480 --> 00:34:53,000
Speaker 8: my gosh, that's what happens to me.

553
00:34:57,000 --> 00:34:59,640
Speaker 1: Thank you for listening to Wrongful Conviction with Maggie Freeling.

554
00:35:00,080 --> 00:35:03,360
Speaker 1: Please support your local innocence organizations and go to the

555
00:35:03,400 --> 00:35:05,520
Speaker 1: links in our bio to see how you can help.

556
00:35:06,000 --> 00:35:08,920
Speaker 1: I'd like to thank our executive producers Jason Flahm and

557
00:35:09,000 --> 00:35:12,399
Speaker 1: Kevin Wurtis, as well as our senior producer Annie Chelsea,

558
00:35:12,560 --> 00:35:17,480
Speaker 1: researcher Lila Robinson, story editor Sonia Paul, with additional production

559
00:35:17,680 --> 00:35:21,040
Speaker 1: by Jeff Cleiburn and Connor Hall. The music in this

560
00:35:21,120 --> 00:35:25,520
Speaker 1: production is by three time OSCAR nominated composer Jay Ralph.

561
00:35:25,680 --> 00:35:28,320
Speaker 1: Be sure to follow us on Instagram at Wrongful Conviction,

562
00:35:28,680 --> 00:35:32,160
Speaker 1: on Facebook at Wrongful Conviction Podcast, and on Twitter at

563
00:35:32,200 --> 00:35:35,200
Speaker 1: Wrongful Conviction, as well as at Lava for Good. On

564
00:35:35,360 --> 00:35:38,480
Speaker 1: all three platforms, you can also follow me on both

565
00:35:38,520 --> 00:35:42,840
Speaker 1: Instagram and Twitter at Maggie Freeling. Wrongful Conviction with Maggie

566
00:35:42,840 --> 00:35:45,880
Speaker 1: Freeling is a production of Lava for Good Podcasts in

567
00:35:45,960 --> 00:36:04,360
Speaker 1: association with signal company Number one