1 00:00:08,320 --> 00:00:10,800 Speaker 1: Welcome to Daily Variety, your daily dose of news and 2 00:00:10,840 --> 00:00:15,560 Speaker 1: analysis for entertainment industry insiders. It's Tuesday, August nineteenth, twenty 3 00:00:15,560 --> 00:00:19,080 Speaker 1: twenty five. I'm your host, Cynthia Lyttleton. I am co 4 00:00:19,239 --> 00:00:22,759 Speaker 1: editor in chief of Variety alongside Ramin Setuda. I'm in 5 00:00:22,960 --> 00:00:26,120 Speaker 1: LA He's in New York, and Variety has reporters around 6 00:00:26,120 --> 00:00:29,680 Speaker 1: the world covering the business of entertainment. In today's episode, 7 00:00:29,680 --> 00:00:33,080 Speaker 1: we'll talk with industry veterans Chris McGirk and Jana Winograde 8 00:00:33,120 --> 00:00:37,680 Speaker 1: about their new venture Microco. The pair explain why they 9 00:00:37,720 --> 00:00:42,000 Speaker 1: are investing in the super short, low budget micro drama 10 00:00:42,080 --> 00:00:45,120 Speaker 1: series that are a red hot trend in Asia right now. 11 00:00:45,640 --> 00:00:48,720 Speaker 1: And we'll talk with Variety reporter Ethan Shanfeld about how 12 00:00:48,800 --> 00:00:53,360 Speaker 1: AI is changing the business of product placement. But before 13 00:00:53,400 --> 00:00:55,840 Speaker 1: we get to that, here are a few headlines just 14 00:00:55,960 --> 00:00:58,880 Speaker 1: in this morning that you need to know. Next Star 15 00:00:59,000 --> 00:01:01,640 Speaker 1: has set a deal to a require Tegna for six 16 00:01:01,680 --> 00:01:05,240 Speaker 1: point two billion dollars. Next Star already owns about two 17 00:01:05,319 --> 00:01:09,920 Speaker 1: hundred TV stations. Tagna owns sixty four stations. This is 18 00:01:09,959 --> 00:01:12,440 Speaker 1: a big gamble that the FCC is going to change 19 00:01:12,480 --> 00:01:15,600 Speaker 1: the rules that limit how many stations a single company 20 00:01:15,640 --> 00:01:19,480 Speaker 1: can own, because otherwise Nextstar will be way over the 21 00:01:19,560 --> 00:01:23,399 Speaker 1: legal limit. This will be a long process at the FCC. 22 00:01:24,160 --> 00:01:27,919 Speaker 1: Jimmy Kimmel has not stopped speaking out about the cancelation 23 00:01:28,080 --> 00:01:31,280 Speaker 1: of The Late Show with Stephen Colbert. Love seeing the 24 00:01:31,319 --> 00:01:35,600 Speaker 1: camaraderie between those two guys. Don't miss Clayton Davis's interview 25 00:01:35,640 --> 00:01:39,400 Speaker 1: with Kimmel on Variety dot com right now. And ESPN 26 00:01:39,480 --> 00:01:43,360 Speaker 1: has parted ways with Spike Lee on his Colin Kaepernick docuseries, 27 00:01:43,840 --> 00:01:47,840 Speaker 1: The culprit Is Creative Differences. All of these stories and 28 00:01:47,960 --> 00:01:50,760 Speaker 1: so much more can be found on Variety dot com 29 00:01:50,880 --> 00:01:56,680 Speaker 1: right now. Now we turn to conversations with Variety journalists 30 00:01:56,680 --> 00:02:00,320 Speaker 1: and industry leaders about news and trends in show business today. 31 00:02:00,360 --> 00:02:04,000 Speaker 1: My guests are Chris McGirk, chairman and CEO of Cineverse, 32 00:02:04,440 --> 00:02:08,560 Speaker 1: and Jana Winograde, who is CEO of Microco. They are 33 00:02:08,560 --> 00:02:12,080 Speaker 1: teaming with two other well known executives, Lloyd Brawn and 34 00:02:12,120 --> 00:02:16,000 Speaker 1: Susan Rovner to dive into the new world of micro series. 35 00:02:16,560 --> 00:02:19,360 Speaker 1: Chris McGirk and Jana Winograde, thank you so much for 36 00:02:19,440 --> 00:02:21,400 Speaker 1: joining me to talk about your new venture. 37 00:02:21,840 --> 00:02:22,919 Speaker 2: Thank you for having us. 38 00:02:23,240 --> 00:02:24,480 Speaker 3: Thanks very much, Cynthia. 39 00:02:25,120 --> 00:02:28,000 Speaker 1: Well, let's start at the beginning. You two have come 40 00:02:28,080 --> 00:02:31,040 Speaker 1: together in a new venture that is also act by 41 00:02:31,160 --> 00:02:36,200 Speaker 1: Lloyd Braun's Banyon Ventures. It's called Microco and you are 42 00:02:36,240 --> 00:02:40,920 Speaker 1: focusing on the emerging world of microdramas, which is definitely 43 00:02:40,960 --> 00:02:43,560 Speaker 1: something that Variety has been tracking coming out of Asia 44 00:02:43,600 --> 00:02:47,480 Speaker 1: in particular. Chris, let's start with you. You've been with Cinaverse 45 00:02:47,520 --> 00:02:50,440 Speaker 1: for over a decade. How did this venture come together? 46 00:02:51,120 --> 00:02:53,920 Speaker 3: Well, it came together very quickly actually, and you know, 47 00:02:53,960 --> 00:02:57,920 Speaker 3: we've been looking at centavers for new ventures at the 48 00:02:58,000 --> 00:03:00,480 Speaker 3: leading edge where the industry is going, where we could 49 00:03:00,480 --> 00:03:03,560 Speaker 3: apply the assets that we built over the years. We 50 00:03:03,600 --> 00:03:07,480 Speaker 3: own our own streaming and content management technology called Matchpoint. 51 00:03:07,560 --> 00:03:10,680 Speaker 3: We've got over one hundred engineers in India who keep 52 00:03:10,840 --> 00:03:16,000 Speaker 3: advancing that technology, building AI tools. We've got thirty streaming 53 00:03:16,080 --> 00:03:19,920 Speaker 3: channels with the eighty million monthly viewers, more than fifty 54 00:03:20,000 --> 00:03:23,040 Speaker 3: podcasts at this point, in a library of over seventy 55 00:03:23,080 --> 00:03:26,200 Speaker 3: thousand titles. And we used all those assets a year 56 00:03:26,240 --> 00:03:30,680 Speaker 3: ago to launch a movie called Terrifier three, which I 57 00:03:30,680 --> 00:03:34,360 Speaker 3: think shot the industry and it did ninety million dollars 58 00:03:34,440 --> 00:03:37,040 Speaker 3: worldwide and we have less than a million in marketing 59 00:03:37,440 --> 00:03:40,080 Speaker 3: because we used all those assets, these kind of new 60 00:03:40,080 --> 00:03:42,920 Speaker 3: age assets to market the movie in a kind of 61 00:03:43,000 --> 00:03:46,600 Speaker 3: unique way and go after the fan bases, the streaming 62 00:03:46,680 --> 00:03:50,280 Speaker 3: channels and podcasts that really captured in our social media footprint. 63 00:03:50,680 --> 00:03:52,920 Speaker 3: So we were looking for the next big thing to 64 00:03:53,240 --> 00:03:57,760 Speaker 3: apply those assets against, and micro jamas kept coming up. 65 00:03:58,280 --> 00:04:01,400 Speaker 3: It seemed like a business that had just exploded overseas 66 00:04:01,920 --> 00:04:05,360 Speaker 3: and really what it needed was a platform here domestically 67 00:04:05,880 --> 00:04:08,840 Speaker 3: in order to create and distribute that kind of content 68 00:04:08,880 --> 00:04:11,600 Speaker 3: in a blow cost and effective way. And so we 69 00:04:11,720 --> 00:04:14,360 Speaker 3: moved really really quickly to get a deal done with 70 00:04:14,440 --> 00:04:17,320 Speaker 3: Lloyd and Company and bring Janna on board and announce 71 00:04:17,400 --> 00:04:19,720 Speaker 3: this thing because we think there's a Ugit managed to 72 00:04:19,760 --> 00:04:22,679 Speaker 3: being a first lover here domestically, you know as well. 73 00:04:23,320 --> 00:04:26,280 Speaker 1: Well between the four of you, there is a lot 74 00:04:26,320 --> 00:04:30,640 Speaker 1: of collective experience at networks, at studios. Janet, tell me 75 00:04:30,680 --> 00:04:32,320 Speaker 1: how you plugged into this venture. 76 00:04:33,000 --> 00:04:36,559 Speaker 2: Well, Susan Roepner and I have been friends for thirty years. 77 00:04:36,600 --> 00:04:39,599 Speaker 2: We started on our first day together at ABC, and 78 00:04:39,720 --> 00:04:43,680 Speaker 2: after she left NBCU and I left Showtime, we really 79 00:04:43,720 --> 00:04:45,680 Speaker 2: had a strong feeling we wanted to work together. We 80 00:04:45,760 --> 00:04:51,400 Speaker 2: have incredibly complementary skill sets and incredible respect for one another, 81 00:04:51,440 --> 00:04:54,360 Speaker 2: and we've been really looking at a number of things 82 00:04:54,400 --> 00:04:57,279 Speaker 2: to do, and when we heard about micro dramas, it 83 00:04:57,320 --> 00:05:00,400 Speaker 2: really felt like an area where we could take what 84 00:05:00,440 --> 00:05:05,720 Speaker 2: we love to do best in storytelling and take that 85 00:05:06,040 --> 00:05:10,520 Speaker 2: where the consumers are now consuming content. Because storytelling never changed. 86 00:05:10,560 --> 00:05:13,320 Speaker 2: Great stories people always want to see them, They always 87 00:05:13,360 --> 00:05:16,280 Speaker 2: want to see characters. But what has changed is how 88 00:05:16,279 --> 00:05:19,320 Speaker 2: the audience consumes that content and what they watch and 89 00:05:19,320 --> 00:05:21,599 Speaker 2: on what devices, and how they want to engage with it. 90 00:05:22,000 --> 00:05:24,280 Speaker 1: So let me be clear, you will launch this on 91 00:05:24,320 --> 00:05:27,400 Speaker 1: the Cineverse platform, or you will have a dedicated micro 92 00:05:27,520 --> 00:05:28,440 Speaker 1: code platform. 93 00:05:29,080 --> 00:05:33,240 Speaker 2: We're going to have a dedicated micro co platform, but 94 00:05:33,360 --> 00:05:38,000 Speaker 2: that is built by Cineverse with all the incredible technology 95 00:05:38,040 --> 00:05:38,719 Speaker 2: that they have. 96 00:05:39,440 --> 00:05:42,560 Speaker 3: We don't have a name yet for that platform. It's 97 00:05:42,600 --> 00:05:45,800 Speaker 3: not going to be MicroC micro Co is a working 98 00:05:45,839 --> 00:05:48,760 Speaker 3: title of a corporate title. I think the other thing 99 00:05:48,760 --> 00:05:52,000 Speaker 3: that's important from a financial standpoint and a speed to 100 00:05:52,080 --> 00:05:56,760 Speaker 3: launch standpoint, we spent tens of millions of dollars over 101 00:05:56,800 --> 00:06:01,680 Speaker 3: the years already investing in the technology, in buying companies 102 00:06:01,680 --> 00:06:06,039 Speaker 3: to build out our social network to basically build out 103 00:06:06,040 --> 00:06:07,160 Speaker 3: our channel footprint. 104 00:06:07,520 --> 00:06:10,880 Speaker 1: Let me ask you a fairly blunt question, how is 105 00:06:10,920 --> 00:06:12,320 Speaker 1: this not Quibi? 106 00:06:12,720 --> 00:06:16,040 Speaker 2: I'll take that one. Katzenberg was prescient, but it's a 107 00:06:16,080 --> 00:06:18,920 Speaker 2: whole different world than it was in twenty twenty. Twenty 108 00:06:19,000 --> 00:06:21,880 Speaker 2: twenty was just a completely different time, not just in 109 00:06:21,960 --> 00:06:25,239 Speaker 2: terms of COVID, but consumers have embraced short form vertical 110 00:06:25,279 --> 00:06:28,400 Speaker 2: content in so many ways now and in ways they 111 00:06:28,560 --> 00:06:32,039 Speaker 2: just hadn't become really accustomed to at the time that 112 00:06:32,279 --> 00:06:36,240 Speaker 2: Quibi launched. So whether it's YouTube or TikTok, they're used 113 00:06:36,279 --> 00:06:40,440 Speaker 2: to the scrolling vertical behavior. It wasn't trying to bring 114 00:06:40,520 --> 00:06:44,320 Speaker 2: people on and teach them something new. We're not trying 115 00:06:44,320 --> 00:06:47,080 Speaker 2: to create that new behavior. We're expanding that behavior to 116 00:06:47,120 --> 00:06:50,800 Speaker 2: include narrative storytelling. Even the format that we're talking about 117 00:06:50,800 --> 00:06:55,600 Speaker 2: with microdramas. This is now an established format. It's been 118 00:06:55,640 --> 00:06:59,400 Speaker 2: prevalent in China for many years, it's prevalent in Korea, 119 00:06:59,440 --> 00:07:03,200 Speaker 2: it's in Eastern Europe, and they have brought their apps 120 00:07:03,279 --> 00:07:08,120 Speaker 2: here and those apps are doing incredibly well on the 121 00:07:08,160 --> 00:07:10,960 Speaker 2: app store. The truth of the matter is starting a 122 00:07:11,000 --> 00:07:13,960 Speaker 2: direct to consumer business is a really heavy lift and 123 00:07:14,000 --> 00:07:16,560 Speaker 2: that's what Katzenberg was trying to do. But we have 124 00:07:16,600 --> 00:07:19,720 Speaker 2: this Cineverse flywheels, so we're not starting from ground zero. 125 00:07:20,160 --> 00:07:22,560 Speaker 2: We'll have access to one hundred and fifty million fans 126 00:07:22,600 --> 00:07:27,000 Speaker 2: of genre content including horror and romance, true crime, and anime, 127 00:07:27,720 --> 00:07:29,560 Speaker 2: and the marketing tech to target them. 128 00:07:30,120 --> 00:07:33,360 Speaker 1: How will you produce it? Are you calling up showrunners 129 00:07:33,440 --> 00:07:35,920 Speaker 1: and notable people or do you see this as something 130 00:07:35,960 --> 00:07:38,720 Speaker 1: that is coming more from the grassroots of the creator economy. 131 00:07:39,000 --> 00:07:40,880 Speaker 2: The way we're looking at this is a little bit 132 00:07:40,920 --> 00:07:45,080 Speaker 2: different in approach. We are not trying to make premium television. 133 00:07:45,560 --> 00:07:48,160 Speaker 2: We've done a lot of research into what is making 134 00:07:48,320 --> 00:07:50,640 Speaker 2: micro dramas and we're actually going to call the micro 135 00:07:50,800 --> 00:07:54,320 Speaker 2: series because we're not just looking at dramas, but we've 136 00:07:54,320 --> 00:07:57,160 Speaker 2: done a lot of research into what is making that 137 00:07:57,360 --> 00:08:01,160 Speaker 2: genre of content work for the audience. 138 00:08:01,680 --> 00:08:03,119 Speaker 1: Will you work with the union talent? 139 00:08:03,760 --> 00:08:07,560 Speaker 2: We are figuring out now exactly how we're going to 140 00:08:07,720 --> 00:08:12,360 Speaker 2: be moving forward in the community. But we're really looking 141 00:08:12,400 --> 00:08:16,840 Speaker 2: at this we are not planning to do premium productions. 142 00:08:17,440 --> 00:08:20,000 Speaker 2: We are looking at price points that are well well 143 00:08:20,080 --> 00:08:24,840 Speaker 2: well below what a normal television production would be in 144 00:08:24,880 --> 00:08:29,120 Speaker 2: more in line with the microdrama budgets that the current 145 00:08:29,320 --> 00:08:33,880 Speaker 2: microdrama apps are using that probably will not be conducive 146 00:08:34,559 --> 00:08:40,560 Speaker 2: to the guild talent or big stars, but as a 147 00:08:40,640 --> 00:08:43,480 Speaker 2: general rule, we are really trying to stick with the 148 00:08:43,480 --> 00:08:45,240 Speaker 2: business model that makes financial sense. 149 00:08:45,720 --> 00:08:47,680 Speaker 3: We all came out of the studio system, but we 150 00:08:47,720 --> 00:08:49,920 Speaker 3: see the turmoil that's going on in the business now 151 00:08:49,960 --> 00:08:53,280 Speaker 3: where literally tens of thousands of people have blust their jobs. 152 00:08:53,600 --> 00:08:56,560 Speaker 3: We're a company that prides itself on being a rebel company, 153 00:08:57,040 --> 00:09:00,360 Speaker 3: employing people and creating a new business that is going 154 00:09:00,400 --> 00:09:02,880 Speaker 3: to be great through the industry. I think is our 155 00:09:02,920 --> 00:09:04,800 Speaker 3: first and foremost subjective here. 156 00:09:05,200 --> 00:09:09,560 Speaker 2: In addition to our originals, we do plan to have 157 00:09:09,640 --> 00:09:13,400 Speaker 2: a content creator vertical. The content creators are broadening out 158 00:09:13,520 --> 00:09:16,360 Speaker 2: to give their fans a more three to sixty degree experience, 159 00:09:17,120 --> 00:09:19,640 Speaker 2: and we feel like micro series can be a really 160 00:09:20,280 --> 00:09:24,600 Speaker 2: good pillar of that experience. We're sort of looking at 161 00:09:24,640 --> 00:09:27,520 Speaker 2: as a bridge between the creator economy as it currently 162 00:09:27,600 --> 00:09:32,040 Speaker 2: exists and the traditional studio produced series, or maybe the 163 00:09:32,040 --> 00:09:34,680 Speaker 2: better way to say it will be the intersection of 164 00:09:34,720 --> 00:09:38,719 Speaker 2: the then diagram, the overlapping slice, because right now what's 165 00:09:38,760 --> 00:09:41,160 Speaker 2: happening is the big studios and platforms are trying to 166 00:09:41,200 --> 00:09:45,679 Speaker 2: fit creators and influencers into long form, traditionally formatic content, 167 00:09:46,440 --> 00:09:49,080 Speaker 2: and not only is that a lengthy process for such 168 00:09:49,080 --> 00:09:51,920 Speaker 2: a fast moving space, but that's not how we're where 169 00:09:51,960 --> 00:09:54,560 Speaker 2: the audience is used to engaging with them. What we 170 00:09:54,720 --> 00:09:57,760 Speaker 2: can give creators is a more frictionless way to migrate 171 00:09:57,800 --> 00:10:00,840 Speaker 2: their current audience over to the different creators experience. And 172 00:10:00,840 --> 00:10:03,520 Speaker 2: then with the platform we're going to have, we're going 173 00:10:03,600 --> 00:10:05,360 Speaker 2: to be able to give them the ability to have 174 00:10:05,440 --> 00:10:08,880 Speaker 2: the social interaction they're used to having with creators, and 175 00:10:08,920 --> 00:10:11,200 Speaker 2: that's not something you can do in the traditional space. 176 00:10:11,600 --> 00:10:14,240 Speaker 1: Will this be entirely subscription or will you have some 177 00:10:14,320 --> 00:10:15,520 Speaker 1: ad support baked in? 178 00:10:16,080 --> 00:10:19,960 Speaker 2: We will have a number of different monetization models. The 179 00:10:19,960 --> 00:10:21,520 Speaker 2: one thing we're clear on is we're not going to 180 00:10:21,559 --> 00:10:24,520 Speaker 2: have a very hard paywall when you first enter. 181 00:10:25,200 --> 00:10:27,280 Speaker 1: When do you expect the first of this content to 182 00:10:27,360 --> 00:10:28,240 Speaker 1: hit the marketplace. 183 00:10:28,720 --> 00:10:31,600 Speaker 3: We're talking about launch first quarter of next year, first 184 00:10:31,600 --> 00:10:34,199 Speaker 3: calendar quarter, and again it's going to be a mix 185 00:10:34,320 --> 00:10:38,720 Speaker 3: of licensed creator content and our own origional content. Over time, 186 00:10:39,440 --> 00:10:43,440 Speaker 3: our content will become much more of the percentage of 187 00:10:43,440 --> 00:10:47,079 Speaker 3: the following it. So we're thinking probably by next April, 188 00:10:47,200 --> 00:10:49,960 Speaker 3: we will launch the service. We've got a name. 189 00:10:50,000 --> 00:10:54,080 Speaker 1: First, we'll ask listeners to send in suggestions. I want 190 00:10:54,080 --> 00:10:55,880 Speaker 1: to say thank you both for coming on and we 191 00:10:55,960 --> 00:10:59,560 Speaker 1: will absolutely stay tuned. We'll certainly rooting for you to 192 00:10:59,720 --> 00:11:02,480 Speaker 1: bring some much needed jobs back to this creative community. 193 00:11:03,160 --> 00:11:05,240 Speaker 2: Thanks Cynthia, thank you. 194 00:11:08,080 --> 00:11:10,480 Speaker 1: Next up, we'll hear from Ethan Shanfeld, who was a 195 00:11:10,559 --> 00:11:15,040 Speaker 1: variety reporter based in New York. He became intrigued at 196 00:11:15,040 --> 00:11:19,040 Speaker 1: how technology is changing the process of landing real life 197 00:11:19,080 --> 00:11:23,000 Speaker 1: brands in movies and TV shows. Ethan Shanfield, thanks for 198 00:11:23,080 --> 00:11:23,480 Speaker 1: joining me. 199 00:11:24,160 --> 00:11:25,000 Speaker 4: Thank you, Cynthia. 200 00:11:25,559 --> 00:11:28,560 Speaker 1: You filed a story recently that got my attention. Why 201 00:11:28,679 --> 00:11:32,520 Speaker 1: product placement in movies and TV is peaking. It's a 202 00:11:32,640 --> 00:11:36,400 Speaker 1: great variety headline, Ethan. What was the spark for the story? 203 00:11:37,200 --> 00:11:39,560 Speaker 4: So what first drew me to the story was I 204 00:11:39,720 --> 00:11:43,760 Speaker 4: met a young guy who works at UTA at a 205 00:11:43,840 --> 00:11:47,079 Speaker 4: networking dinner and he was telling me about a specific 206 00:11:47,120 --> 00:11:50,000 Speaker 4: placement that happened in season two of The Bear. And 207 00:11:50,080 --> 00:11:54,360 Speaker 4: what he said was basically that placement can make somebody's career, 208 00:11:54,880 --> 00:11:58,120 Speaker 4: like landing a deal like that, which the money behind 209 00:11:58,120 --> 00:12:00,679 Speaker 4: all these deals is very kept secret, but a lot 210 00:12:00,760 --> 00:12:04,720 Speaker 4: of them are seven figure deals. They involve broad sort 211 00:12:04,760 --> 00:12:08,679 Speaker 4: of ad spend across the network and then also sometimes 212 00:12:08,720 --> 00:12:11,960 Speaker 4: product placement, and so it got me thinking, I wanted 213 00:12:11,960 --> 00:12:14,520 Speaker 4: to do a story on two or three of these 214 00:12:14,559 --> 00:12:16,920 Speaker 4: big product placement deals that have happened in the past 215 00:12:16,920 --> 00:12:19,680 Speaker 4: couple of years on some of the buzziest shows on TV. 216 00:12:20,320 --> 00:12:23,439 Speaker 4: And so he set me up with some people at 217 00:12:23,559 --> 00:12:27,600 Speaker 4: UTA who work on these deals. And once we started 218 00:12:27,640 --> 00:12:30,880 Speaker 4: talking about the deals, what I noticed was that I 219 00:12:30,920 --> 00:12:33,760 Speaker 4: was sitting with a bunch of statistics people at a 220 00:12:33,760 --> 00:12:38,120 Speaker 4: Hollywood agency. What UTA has done is hired people who 221 00:12:38,160 --> 00:12:43,360 Speaker 4: specialize in product placement, and they've created this measurement system. 222 00:12:43,720 --> 00:12:46,760 Speaker 4: So if their client is Coca Cola, for example, which 223 00:12:46,840 --> 00:12:49,400 Speaker 4: was the example with the Bear, they can go to 224 00:12:49,440 --> 00:12:52,439 Speaker 4: Coca Cola and crunch all the numbers and say, well, 225 00:12:52,480 --> 00:12:56,839 Speaker 4: if you do a thirty second advertisement in the NBA Finals, 226 00:12:57,520 --> 00:12:59,520 Speaker 4: this is how many people are going to watch the ad. 227 00:13:00,480 --> 00:13:03,160 Speaker 4: You decide to put a bottle of Coke zero next 228 00:13:03,200 --> 00:13:07,160 Speaker 4: to iodebris character in a three minute scene in the Bear, 229 00:13:07,760 --> 00:13:09,640 Speaker 4: we don't know how many people are going to watch it, 230 00:13:09,920 --> 00:13:13,520 Speaker 4: but this might be more impactful for your brand. And 231 00:13:13,640 --> 00:13:16,640 Speaker 4: so for that example. Specifically, Coca Cola looked at some 232 00:13:16,720 --> 00:13:20,880 Speaker 4: early scripts from season two of The Bear. They helped 233 00:13:21,200 --> 00:13:25,120 Speaker 4: pinpoint a specific scene that worked with their campaign, which 234 00:13:25,160 --> 00:13:27,960 Speaker 4: at the time was called Recipe for Magic. The scene 235 00:13:28,000 --> 00:13:31,560 Speaker 4: is Iodebrie's character is they're sharing a slice of cake 236 00:13:31,720 --> 00:13:34,640 Speaker 4: with her and her dad on her late mom's birthday, 237 00:13:35,480 --> 00:13:37,600 Speaker 4: and it's very subtle that there's just a bottle of 238 00:13:37,600 --> 00:13:40,240 Speaker 4: coke sitting next to her. She doesn't drink it, it's 239 00:13:40,280 --> 00:13:43,360 Speaker 4: not the label is not clearly shown for much of 240 00:13:43,400 --> 00:13:46,679 Speaker 4: the scene, but clearly that was the right move for 241 00:13:46,800 --> 00:13:48,640 Speaker 4: Coca Cola, and a lot of people in the business 242 00:13:48,679 --> 00:13:51,640 Speaker 4: point to it as a very strong example of product placement. 243 00:13:52,360 --> 00:13:55,760 Speaker 4: It sounds like they're bringing data and AI tools to 244 00:13:55,840 --> 00:14:00,200 Speaker 4: analyzing the optimal frames to put in product placements. We 245 00:14:00,280 --> 00:14:03,800 Speaker 4: talked a lot about specific examples of product placement, the 246 00:14:03,880 --> 00:14:07,200 Speaker 4: trends that they're seeing in twenty twenty five. One of 247 00:14:07,200 --> 00:14:09,080 Speaker 4: the things I put in the piece is that product 248 00:14:09,080 --> 00:14:12,880 Speaker 4: placement has existed in Hollywood for basically as long as 249 00:14:13,000 --> 00:14:15,840 Speaker 4: film and TV have existed. It used to trickle down 250 00:14:15,840 --> 00:14:19,320 Speaker 4: from the networks. So, for example, ABC might have a 251 00:14:19,400 --> 00:14:23,480 Speaker 4: deal with Hershey Chocolate and it trickles down to the shows, 252 00:14:23,520 --> 00:14:25,800 Speaker 4: so they would come to the producers and say, we 253 00:14:25,880 --> 00:14:28,960 Speaker 4: need you to put Hershey's chocolate in this scene of 254 00:14:29,160 --> 00:14:30,600 Speaker 4: family matters or whatever. 255 00:14:31,120 --> 00:14:34,080 Speaker 1: I can definitely attest to it. As recently as ten 256 00:14:34,160 --> 00:14:37,120 Speaker 1: years ago, if a producer had come to ABC and said, oh, look, 257 00:14:37,120 --> 00:14:40,000 Speaker 1: I've done a placement deal for my show, they would 258 00:14:40,000 --> 00:14:43,480 Speaker 1: have gotten their handslab. This kind of stuff was completely 259 00:14:43,520 --> 00:14:46,800 Speaker 1: controlled by the network on the film side, by the studio. 260 00:14:47,120 --> 00:14:49,560 Speaker 1: But your reporting is showing that there are now a 261 00:14:49,640 --> 00:14:52,000 Speaker 1: lot more avenues to getting these deals done. 262 00:14:52,720 --> 00:14:56,480 Speaker 4: Absolutely, and what the product placement people are seeing is 263 00:14:56,640 --> 00:15:00,120 Speaker 4: not only that the producers are soliciting these deals, that 264 00:15:00,120 --> 00:15:03,040 Speaker 4: they're enthusiastic about them. Right now, as budgets are being 265 00:15:03,040 --> 00:15:07,600 Speaker 4: slashed in Hollywood, costs are ballooning, the producers are finding 266 00:15:07,640 --> 00:15:09,600 Speaker 4: these avenues to sort of cushion that. 267 00:15:10,440 --> 00:15:13,640 Speaker 1: There's an interesting discussion in your story about the old 268 00:15:13,960 --> 00:15:15,840 Speaker 1: solution to this would be to come up with a 269 00:15:15,960 --> 00:15:19,280 Speaker 1: generic box of cereal that said Cereal on it. In 270 00:15:19,280 --> 00:15:22,600 Speaker 1: the world of hyperrealism that we live in, those kinds 271 00:15:22,640 --> 00:15:25,600 Speaker 1: of fake generic products almost take you out of the story. 272 00:15:25,640 --> 00:15:28,400 Speaker 1: It's better to see the box of tryskits or the 273 00:15:28,440 --> 00:15:30,680 Speaker 1: can of coke or the bottle of tied detergent. 274 00:15:31,360 --> 00:15:33,280 Speaker 4: Yeah, that seems to be the mindset of a lot 275 00:15:33,320 --> 00:15:34,840 Speaker 4: of writers and producers. 276 00:15:35,600 --> 00:15:38,160 Speaker 1: I want to bring you back to something you said earlier, 277 00:15:38,200 --> 00:15:41,400 Speaker 1: which was that doing a great product placement deal can 278 00:15:41,480 --> 00:15:44,320 Speaker 1: be make or break for somebody's career. Was that for 279 00:15:44,600 --> 00:15:49,520 Speaker 1: marketing execs. Is there an emerging, very specific statistician discipline here. 280 00:15:50,080 --> 00:15:52,200 Speaker 4: I think so. But one of the other things that 281 00:15:52,480 --> 00:15:55,360 Speaker 4: made me laugh while reporting this story was if you 282 00:15:55,480 --> 00:15:58,480 Speaker 4: ask any of these people what the holy grail of 283 00:15:58,520 --> 00:16:01,400 Speaker 4: product placement is in the last few years, a lot 284 00:16:01,480 --> 00:16:04,440 Speaker 4: of them will point to Barbie and the General Motors 285 00:16:04,520 --> 00:16:07,400 Speaker 4: partnership with Barbie, because you had all these scenes with 286 00:16:07,640 --> 00:16:11,000 Speaker 4: Barbie's dream car, you had all these cars on the 287 00:16:11,000 --> 00:16:14,000 Speaker 4: freeway in that car chase scene. In the real world, 288 00:16:14,760 --> 00:16:17,120 Speaker 4: you know, nobody knew that Barbie was gonna make one 289 00:16:17,160 --> 00:16:20,880 Speaker 4: point four billion dollars at the box office. So that 290 00:16:20,960 --> 00:16:24,040 Speaker 4: deal is seen as this incredible example of product placement. 291 00:16:24,240 --> 00:16:26,840 Speaker 4: But what one of the sources said was that seven 292 00:16:26,920 --> 00:16:30,480 Speaker 4: hundred people take credit for it. So anyone who had 293 00:16:30,520 --> 00:16:33,360 Speaker 4: any sort of hand in that deal is surely waving 294 00:16:33,400 --> 00:16:36,600 Speaker 4: their Flag and saying I helped, you know, get the 295 00:16:36,640 --> 00:16:40,200 Speaker 4: General Motors deal in Barbie. So to answer your question, 296 00:16:40,640 --> 00:16:43,280 Speaker 4: I think there's a lot of people who sort of 297 00:16:43,280 --> 00:16:45,360 Speaker 4: strive for that type of credit. 298 00:16:45,920 --> 00:16:49,040 Speaker 1: Well, I so appreciate your keen eye for a good 299 00:16:49,120 --> 00:16:52,720 Speaker 1: story and a good trend. That is absolutely the sweet 300 00:16:52,760 --> 00:16:54,640 Speaker 1: spot of what we're trying to get at every day 301 00:16:54,640 --> 00:16:56,920 Speaker 1: here at Variety and Ethan. Thank you so much for 302 00:16:57,000 --> 00:16:59,040 Speaker 1: all of your great contributions. 303 00:16:59,600 --> 00:17:00,640 Speaker 4: Thanks so much, Cynthia. 304 00:17:03,360 --> 00:17:05,680 Speaker 1: As we close out today's episode, here are a few 305 00:17:05,720 --> 00:17:08,399 Speaker 1: things we're watching for. If you grew up in the 306 00:17:08,480 --> 00:17:12,160 Speaker 1: nineteen eighties, you'll want to watch the new Netflix documentary 307 00:17:12,200 --> 00:17:15,760 Speaker 1: on Devo, We Are Divo. It's from director Chris Smith. 308 00:17:16,280 --> 00:17:18,960 Speaker 1: We'll be diving back to the seventies later this week 309 00:17:19,160 --> 00:17:22,359 Speaker 1: as we look at fifty years of industrial light and Magic. 310 00:17:22,920 --> 00:17:26,879 Speaker 1: My colleague Jazz Tanke will be on to discuss. Director 311 00:17:27,000 --> 00:17:32,600 Speaker 1: Darren Aronofsky is busy this month his nat GEO docuseries Limitless, 312 00:17:32,960 --> 00:17:36,560 Speaker 1: Live Better Now Bows August twenty fifth. It's hosted by 313 00:17:36,640 --> 00:17:42,120 Speaker 1: Chris Hemsworth. Four days later, Aronofsky's Austin Butler crime drama 314 00:17:42,200 --> 00:17:46,679 Speaker 1: Caught Stealing Bows in theaters Thanks for listening. This episode 315 00:17:46,720 --> 00:17:50,400 Speaker 1: was written and reported by me Cynthia Littleton, with contributions 316 00:17:50,440 --> 00:17:55,200 Speaker 1: from Ethan Shanfeld. It was edited by Aaron Greenwald. Sti's 317 00:17:55,320 --> 00:17:57,960 Speaker 1: Nick's hick Picks. Please leave us a review at the 318 00:17:58,000 --> 00:18:01,320 Speaker 1: podcast platform of your choice, and please tune in tomorrow 319 00:18:01,359 --> 00:18:05,520 Speaker 1: for another episode of Daily Variety.