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Speaker 1: From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is

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Speaker 1: riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or

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Speaker 1: learn this stuff they don't want you to know. A

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Speaker 1: production of iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 2: Hello, welcome back to the show.

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Speaker 3: My name is Matt, my name is Noa.

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Speaker 4: They call me Ben. We're joined as always with our

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Speaker 4: super producer Paul, Mission Control deck, and most importantly, you

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Speaker 4: are you. You are here and that makes this the

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Speaker 4: stuff they don't want you to know. I've got a

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Speaker 4: good feeling about this one.

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Speaker 3: I have like feeling.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I have like three feelings a year, and this

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Speaker 4: is one of them. I have a good feeling about this.

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Speaker 3: I'm with you, man, I'm feeling it. I'm feeling the

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Speaker 3: posi vibes, feeling good vibrations. See me.

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Speaker 2: On the other hand, I don't know something's off.

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Speaker 3: Are you the doom bringer Matt oh trying to bring

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Speaker 3: us down?

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Speaker 4: Bro Honey Buffetts Stretcher Rouw. So uh yeah, this is

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Speaker 4: like okay, so we're talking about feelings, right, feelings? You know,

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Speaker 4: sometimes you get that zap of intuition, this like an

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Speaker 4: inner push. All of a sudden, You're like, yes, I'm

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Speaker 4: gonna ask this person out on a date, or I'm

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Speaker 4: gonna buy a plane ticket, or sometimes you might just

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Speaker 4: have a sense of unease, malaise. You meet someone and

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Speaker 4: in the space of seconds you're like, I don't trust

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Speaker 4: that one.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it's like I mean, you could call it intuition,

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Speaker 3: you could call it reading the room perhaps, or sometimes

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Speaker 3: just sort of being open, you know, to the possibilities.

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Speaker 4: Right, saying yes, and to the universe yes, right, and

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Speaker 4: to the universe. Yeah. And you know, we hear all

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Speaker 4: these stories, like whenever there's a large scale disaster, there

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Speaker 4: is inevitably some anecdote that makes its way into the public.

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Speaker 4: Right during nine to eleven, there's stories of people who

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Speaker 4: suddenly decided they were going to call in sick to work,

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Speaker 4: or they suddenly didn't want to hop on the maiden

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Speaker 4: voyage of the Titanic. You might even experience this in

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Speaker 4: your own life. You might hesitate it to stop light

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Speaker 4: just for a moment, even though it's green, and the

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Speaker 4: boom right in front of you. A catastrophic car accident.

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Speaker 4: These things, like you're mentioning, these these little hints that

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Speaker 4: appear to come from beyond us are sometimes these days

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Speaker 4: called vibes.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, Can I tell you, guys, just a really quick

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Speaker 5: story about this similar situation that you kind of just described.

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Speaker 5: Ben So Not long ago, I was hit by somebody

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Speaker 5: who ran a stoplight. I was in my car. I

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Speaker 5: was at a red light. I started going when it

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Speaker 5: turned green, and somebody t boned me. Right that day,

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Speaker 5: when I got in the car, I kid you not, guys,

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Speaker 5: I sat in my car and I looked over. I've

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Speaker 5: got these like driving gloves, which is such a weird

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Speaker 5: thing to have, but I've got you, you know, just

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Speaker 5: I don't know that it's not for that, but but

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Speaker 5: I have driving gloves that I never wear. That day

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Speaker 5: when I left the house, for some reason, I looked

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Speaker 5: over and put my driving gloves on because I felt

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Speaker 5: I don't know why, and I did it and then

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Speaker 5: I ended up getting hit.

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Speaker 4: That felt like I needed to be ready for somehow.

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Speaker 3: You know.

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Speaker 4: Uh, It's tough to explain, and we're we're going to

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Speaker 4: attempt it. We're going to solve in part the big question,

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Speaker 4: are vibes real? Here are the facts vibe vibes. It's

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Speaker 4: not just this amazing cinematic masterpiece, but it's also I

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Speaker 4: was trying to find us a good definition, like a

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Speaker 4: good solid definition of vibes, and most of the dictionary

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Speaker 4: ones are useless.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, because it's more of a feeling, you know,

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Speaker 3: and it really didn't come into being as a cultural

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Speaker 3: kind of term until probably the late sixties, I guess.

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Speaker 3: I mean, you know, you in researching Ben found that

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Speaker 3: good vibrations really wasn't necessarily referring to a pre existing phenomenon,

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Speaker 3: inasmuch as it was sort of, you know, creating that

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Speaker 3: phenomenon and of itself. And I kind of question as

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Speaker 3: to whether or not that you know, in southern California,

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Speaker 3: you know, where Brian Wilson and company were hanging out,

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Speaker 3: if it wasn't sort of maybe a local colloquial term

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Speaker 3: like you know, like yevin good vibes or whatever, you

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Speaker 3: know what I mean, like or a surfer thing, or

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Speaker 3: if it maybe came from that. But certainly that whole

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Speaker 3: culture wasn't really communicated to the world at large until

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Speaker 3: the Beach Boys really just pump pumped it out into

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Speaker 3: the atmosphere, you know, I hook it up to my veins,

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Speaker 3: Brian Wilson, because yeah, I mean, there's a massive hit,

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Speaker 3: which is interesting considering what kind of an odd song.

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Speaker 3: It is like it was really when the Beach Boys

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Speaker 3: were heading more in their psychedelic zen kind of direction,

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Speaker 3: you know, and use the theoremen for the first time in

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Speaker 3: like popular culture as well.

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Speaker 4: Good good Good, Paul says, we'll get sued.

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Speaker 3: We're with you.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, good vibrations, right if you so. Miriam Webster says,

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Speaker 4: defines vibes in this sense as quote, a distinctive feeling

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Speaker 4: or quality capable of being sensed, which could be anything.

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Speaker 4: At that point, what stimulus is not a vibe?

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Speaker 3: Right?

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Speaker 4: I stub my toe. That's a heck of a vibe. Right.

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Speaker 4: I smell cinnamon and cocoa. That's a vibe.

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Speaker 3: Matt just punched me in the face, really the hardest

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Speaker 3: vibe've ever felt, which is which is.

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Speaker 4: Weird because we're ordered remotely.

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Speaker 3: Completely hypothetical situation in there. Maxim is a pacifist.

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Speaker 4: So yeah, you make a great point about about Beach

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Speaker 4: Boys kind of mainstreams vibes, you know, the kind of

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Speaker 4: similar to the way that certain musical artists or films

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Speaker 4: mainstream The phrase Hella, which was also severely California.

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Speaker 3: Was it is it it's almost like cliche, as his vibes,

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Speaker 3: vibes truly happening. That's actually no, well that's not true.

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Speaker 3: Vibes is sort of having a second life. Vibes is

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Speaker 3: you know, vibe check, you know, beep, don't kill my vibe,

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Speaker 3: you know by Kendrick Lamar. Like it really is becoming

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Speaker 3: newly kind of reintegrated into like, you know, popular slang.

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Speaker 4: And some people hate it. Of course, given the recursive

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Speaker 4: nature of fame in the Internet, we know that in

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Speaker 4: the earlier sixties, right pre Beach Boys, if someone said something,

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Speaker 4: if someone mentioned a vibe, they might very well be

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Speaker 4: talking about a vibraphone. What is a vibraphone?

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Speaker 3: Ah Man Matt as the percussionist. I know this is

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Speaker 3: probably something that you ran into when you were playing

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Speaker 3: band in school and stuff, but really cool instrument that

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Speaker 3: you don't get to have unless you really know what

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Speaker 3: you're doing. It's like a xylopomba with tubes underneath it.

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Speaker 3: As if that weren't enough, the tubes have a little

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Speaker 3: motors attached to them with little flippy flippy panels that

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Speaker 3: fill up the kind of empty space inside the tube.

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Speaker 3: Kind of gives it sort of a vibrato quality, and

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Speaker 3: it's beautiful. It's in a lot of modern music, a

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Speaker 3: lot of loungy jazz music, Like you said, Ben, of

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Speaker 3: the fifties specifically, I think more so than the thirty Well, yeah,

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Speaker 3: marimba was more in the earlier than that, but then

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Speaker 3: the vibraphone was maybe more popularized in the fifties and sixties,

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Speaker 3: and then in more modern jazz.

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Speaker 2: There you go.

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Speaker 5: I really like it because it's almost like having a

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Speaker 5: wind instrument and a mallet like percussion instrument kind of

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Speaker 5: together in one thing.

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Speaker 4: And it was invented in nineteen sixteen, right, The lesser

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Speaker 4: known musical instruments are so endlessly fascinating.

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Speaker 3: I ever would have thought it was invented that early.

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Speaker 3: That's so interesting. Wow. Yeah.

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Speaker 4: And according to Brian Wilson, or according to Beach Boys lore,

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Speaker 4: he heard about the idea of a person giving off

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Speaker 4: vibes from his mom and thought it was mostly hippie concept,

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Speaker 4: but from there mainstreams Now the concept of vibes has

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Speaker 4: blossomed into everyday speech. This is why some people hate it.

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Speaker 4: Vibes can now be defined as an idea, a message,

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Speaker 4: a connection between individuals, a theme, a trope, an atmosphere,

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Speaker 4: a sensation, an esthetic, et cetera, et cetera, at all.

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Speaker 3: One singular sensation, you know, every little stuff. She takes

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Speaker 3: what I can't get soon for speaking the words, man,

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Speaker 3: but no, I don't know where, but she sends me there. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: and I'm there. We're all there now together as one. Yeah, man,

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Speaker 3: this is yeah, man, totally bro. I just I think

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Speaker 3: it's a neat concept to dig into. Ben, I'm glad

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Speaker 3: that we decided to go with this because it goes

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Speaker 3: a lot further than you think in it. It involves

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Speaker 3: a lot more actual science and psychology than one might

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Speaker 3: glean from its sort of hippie origins.

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Speaker 5: Right, depending on how you think about it, it could

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Speaker 5: have a lot to do with our twenty fifteen episode

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Speaker 5: about chi right and energy and when we talked about

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Speaker 5: the and all those things. But there's there's some weird

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Speaker 5: science to this thing.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, there really is.

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Speaker 4: I mean, okay, so the if you want to be

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Speaker 4: super fun at parties, the thing we're describing with vibes

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Speaker 4: linguistically as a term is something called linguistic generalization. Like

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Speaker 4: there's a there are a couple of awesome Scandinavian stand

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Speaker 4: up comics. He talked about this. There's one guy in particular,

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Speaker 4: he's from Finland. I can't remember his name, but he

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Speaker 4: he loves talking about how the word ass means so

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Speaker 4: many things in American English or you know, of course,

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Speaker 4: which is going to be hilarious because that just got

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Speaker 4: beaped and you don't know what word we said. But nowadays,

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Speaker 4: you know, despite this very vague, very broad definition, everybody,

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Speaker 4: pretty much everybody accepts two main definitions of a vibe.

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Speaker 4: One in the world of fashion, it's like an esthetic,

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Speaker 4: you know what I mean, Taylor Swift is such a vibe.

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Speaker 4: And then the other, what one that we're focusing on today,

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Speaker 4: is the idea of intuition, a spidey sense, a gut feeling,

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Speaker 4: a hunch. And let's be honest, most of us listening

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Speaker 4: along tonight we may have trouble articulating what a vibe is,

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Speaker 4: but we have no trouble recalling the experience, not just

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Speaker 4: like your the strange coincidence, if coincidence it is with

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Speaker 4: the driving gloves. What how would we describe catching a vibe?

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Speaker 5: Well, I was going to take it back to the

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Speaker 5: movie Vibes that we mentioned at the top, that we've

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Speaker 5: talked about before, But I wanted to describe one version

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Speaker 5: of that how it's been depicted.

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Speaker 2: Would that be okay? Oh boy, yeah, okay.

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Speaker 3: So go to us Honeymuffins, stretcherou Vibes is more of

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Speaker 3: a film, but for sure, man.

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Speaker 5: Oh yeah, you're right, Sorry, my bad, it was totally filmed.

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Speaker 5: Well the version I saw I think was VHS. I'm

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Speaker 5: not sure, but Jeff Goldwin plays a character that is

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Speaker 5: a psychomatrist. What would how would we describe that?

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Speaker 4: Psychometry is the psychic power to touch an object like

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Speaker 4: this straw or this mason jar, and through that physical contact,

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Speaker 4: experience things that happened to or around that object in

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Speaker 4: the past.

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Speaker 2: Right, or just know something.

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Speaker 3: And I guess that sort of gets lumped in with

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Speaker 3: psychic powers or telekinesis. I mean, I guess helicanes is

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Speaker 3: more specifically moving things with your mind. But it does

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Speaker 3: feel like it's in that wheelhouse of like being able

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Speaker 3: to sense energies and perhaps manipulate them.

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Speaker 4: Even you could call it something like object based claravoyance.

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Speaker 5: That's cool, dam And then see there's another character in

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Speaker 5: that movie that Cindy Laper plays that is a trans medium.

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Speaker 5: So speaks to some spirit guide, right, interacts with a

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Speaker 5: spirit guide in between the plane of reality and the afterlife, and.

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Speaker 3: Between the two of them, they're unstoppable. Right.

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Speaker 5: But yes, but that is how that character gets clued

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Speaker 5: into Vibes, right, And there are several other characters that

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Speaker 5: show psychic traits in the movie, and it really does

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Speaker 5: a good job of kind of showing these different variations

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Speaker 5: on being able to pick up on vibes that many

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Speaker 5: people claim to have these kinds of abilities today. And

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Speaker 5: most of that stuff that's depicted in the movie. The

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Speaker 5: way those characters are able to pick up on vibes,

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Speaker 5: we got to say right now, is not proven, right,

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Speaker 5: None of that stuff's proven.

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Speaker 2: But there is something going.

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Speaker 4: On that's true. That's absolutely correct, folks. You see tonight

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Speaker 4: we're going to prove to you that vibes appear to

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Speaker 4: be real. What are we talking about. We'll tell you

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Speaker 4: after word from our sponsor. Here's where it gets crazy.

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Speaker 4: Caveat caveat, caveat fine print disclaimer, caveat asterisk. We cannot

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Speaker 4: put enough of those in there.

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Speaker 3: As of now.

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Speaker 4: Despite excellent films like Vibes, which are about just the

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Speaker 4: utmost echelons of human ability. No one seems to fully

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Speaker 4: predict the future, no one seems to be able to

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Speaker 4: fully read minds, no one is able to practice that

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Speaker 4: retroactive object based claravoyance. There is a lot of terrifying

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Speaker 4: progress in the idea of predicting the future through big

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Speaker 4: data or using neuroscience to read people's minds, both computer

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Speaker 4: based things, making what once were comic book psychic powers

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Speaker 4: very much real.

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Speaker 3: Like, you know, certain abilities of mentalists to be able

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Speaker 3: to use an implant ideas and suggestions into people's minds

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Speaker 3: and thereby quote unquote reading them. But it's kind of

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Speaker 3: them who gave them the ideas in the first place.

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Speaker 3: So you know, I don't think any of us are

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Speaker 3: poopooing on any spiritual beliefs here, and certainly none of

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Speaker 3: us claim to fully understand all of this stuff. And

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Speaker 3: there's always, you know, something beyond that will never be

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Speaker 3: able to explain with science. But I think what we're

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Speaker 3: mainly talking about today is that intuition aspect of it

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Speaker 3: that I think, Ben, you mentioned the Spidey sense, right.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, but there is vibe checking going on actively, like

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Speaker 5: you're talking about being with the progress in neuroscience, but

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Speaker 5: also in using machine learning and artificial intelligence. We've mentioned

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Speaker 5: this before on the show, but there are so many

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Speaker 5: venture capital outfits and even massive trading firms that are

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Speaker 5: out there existing that are trying to do vibe checks

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Speaker 5: basically on individual stocks and on entire economic sectors. And

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Speaker 5: they're doing that kind of in a similar way where

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Speaker 5: there we're going to talk about this, but they are

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Speaker 5: picking up all these various little signals and then combining

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Speaker 5: them and crunching those numbers way faster than any human

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Speaker 5: could in an attempt to figure out what the next

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Speaker 5: steps are, What are the next two you know, to

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Speaker 5: twelve iterations?

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Speaker 4: Right, Yeah, that's uh, I'm really glad we're bringing this

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Speaker 4: up because, uh, this also is being applied to human

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Speaker 4: behavior reading micro expressions, right, Couple that with couple that

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Speaker 4: with a robust enough data set about previous behavior, and

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Speaker 4: you get very close to predicting what a person will do.

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Speaker 4: And I know, for any fan, any opponents of determinism,

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Speaker 4: that's a that's a very daunting thing. What about my

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Speaker 4: free will? We might say, uh, you should be scared,

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Speaker 4: but you should be very frightened. But science, right now,

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Speaker 4: to your points, Science does appear to have some solid

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Speaker 4: explanations for that gut feeling. Call intuition without quote unquote

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Speaker 4: artificial intelligence, without big data and arcane algorithms. We've got

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Speaker 4: three extremely plausible theories that help us explain what appears

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Speaker 4: to be these messages from the unknown, what appears to

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Speaker 4: be maybe esp And in full disclosure, you know, I

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Speaker 4: come from a community that has been much maligned and

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Speaker 4: accused of witchcraft in the past, and a lot of

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Speaker 4: my personal family members are utterly convinced they have some

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Speaker 4: sort of recessive genetic thing. This is again, like you said, no,

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Speaker 4: this is not to bust anybody's personal beliefs, not to

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Speaker 4: denigrate anybody's spiritual ideals. We wanted to stick to the science.

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Speaker 4: And one of the biggest pieces of what feels like

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Speaker 4: a vibe, one of the biggest things is what we

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Speaker 4: would call subconscious cues want to We owe a lot

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Speaker 4: of this to an author named Gavin de Becker, who

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Speaker 4: wrote The Gift of Fear Fear Fear.

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Speaker 3: I think it's interesting too that fear is the keyword

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Speaker 3: in that title, because I mean, a lot of this

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Speaker 3: stuff goes back to, you know, just animalistic instincts. You know.

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Speaker 3: I mean, if you are threatened, then you're gonna be

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Speaker 3: in a heightened state of awareness and you're gonna be

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Speaker 3: kind of keyed up to lock in on some of

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Speaker 3: these nonverbal cues. A threatening stance. Perhaps you know there's

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Speaker 3: somebody looking at you a certain way from a distance

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Speaker 3: that you kind of clock. Just a lot of nonverbal

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Speaker 3: cues that you know, maybe only one is a little

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Speaker 3: bit suspicious, but then combined with a few others, you're

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Speaker 3: all of a sudden, I'm high alert. And then you're

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Speaker 3: just like really taking in that data, you know, you know,

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Speaker 3: with your with your with your senses, whether it be

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Speaker 3: you know, visually, through audio or through scent.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, there's uh there, there's a great example. The book

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Speaker 4: is full of fantastic examples. And now there are scientists

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Speaker 4: who have some valid criticisms of the book. But one

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Speaker 4: example I remember is concerns the unibomber. These folks got

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Speaker 4: a package addressed to a former law enforcement figure, right,

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Speaker 4: and they weren't expecting a package. And one of the

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Speaker 4: guys was walking out and he said, Okay, I'm going

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Speaker 4: to walk out before that mail bomb goes off. Dark

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Speaker 4: humor was indicative. Dark humor like humor in general allows

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Speaker 4: you to say things that would ordinarily violate social taboos

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Speaker 4: or be disturbing. Right, he is laying out just like

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Speaker 4: you said, He's laying out a very strong case for

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Speaker 4: small signs that you're subconscious or your unconscious mind register

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Speaker 4: without tripping your full awareness. I mean, think about it.

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Speaker 4: Most people are pretty good at judging folks based on

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Speaker 4: first impressions. Think of them like slices. You get a

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Speaker 4: little thin slice of this person based on you know,

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Speaker 4: a glimpse of a photo, or all the way up

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Speaker 4: to a speed dating. We're having a brief interaction on

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Speaker 4: an elevator, right, Because we also were in the US South,

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Speaker 4: where everybody acts like they are vaguely related to you.

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Speaker 4: Strangers talk to each other here. And there's a study

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Speaker 4: we found with a psychologist named Nalini Ambadi, and she

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Speaker 4: had some really interesting findings about people's abilities to judge

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Speaker 4: folks based on vibes, based on first impressions. And it's

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Speaker 4: very strange.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, imagine a ten second video clip of a professor

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Speaker 5: right now giving a lit Now, imagine that you muted

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Speaker 5: the video and just watched that ten second video of

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Speaker 5: a professor. Imagine how you feel I guess about that professor.

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Speaker 5: Isn't that what she asked people to do?

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Speaker 4: Yeah? Yes, she said. Well she specifically said, okay, watch

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Speaker 4: these ten second clips like you described that, and they're

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Speaker 4: silent clips. And after watching the clip, she had a

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Speaker 4: group of these students grade or rates what they considered

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Speaker 4: the overall effectiveness of the educator. So like, on a

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Speaker 4: scale of you know, one to ten or one to

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Speaker 4: five or whatever, how good is this professor at teaching?

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Speaker 4: That's ten seconds?

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Speaker 3: No sound? Well, what would you guys be looking for?

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Speaker 3: I mean, I mean maybe the question isn't what you'd

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Speaker 3: be looking for. I mean for me, I think really clear,

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Speaker 3: precise gesturing would be important, or like engaging body language,

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Speaker 3: wide eyes, some kind of like you know, engaging facial expressions.

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Speaker 3: I think that's what I would be looking for because

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Speaker 3: it would be things that I would associate with keeping

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Speaker 3: my attention.

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Speaker 4: Whether they hang dog.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, that's obviously gonna be the first thing

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Speaker 3: I'm looking for. But you know, without knowing what the

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Speaker 3: content is, what else is there to look for? You

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Speaker 3: know besides like or is the professor attractive? You know

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Speaker 3: what I mean?

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Speaker 4: That's a big part. Yeah, have you guys ever seen

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Speaker 4: rape my professor dot com?

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Speaker 3: I know it's a thing and it's basically becomes like

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Speaker 3: hot or not dot com? You know.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I haven't checked out it in years, but I

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Speaker 4: need to. I guess now we know a lot of professors,

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Speaker 4: so I'll check. One thing they did that was really

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Speaker 4: problematic is they would put a chili pepper by the

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Speaker 4: professor's profile if that professor was considered attractive.

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Speaker 3: Surely they've done away with that. That seems very very yeah,

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Speaker 3: just kinda yeah, a little weird.

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Speaker 5: Well, I'll give you my criteria. Is there a cane

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Speaker 5: involved in any way?

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Speaker 2: Is there a trill?

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Speaker 5: And or is there an eyepatch? Those are the only

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Speaker 5: three criteria I need.

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Speaker 3: I'm ashamed to know. I say, I don't know what

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Speaker 3: a trill bey is. It's uh, it's like.

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Speaker 4: A less insisting fedora.

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Speaker 3: I see. Okay, wait, okay, so like well like so

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Speaker 3: like like an.

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Speaker 5: I don't know how how does it does at Georgia States.

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Speaker 3: There's no way of knowing.

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Speaker 4: Uh, when Justin, when Justin Timberlake was wearing that that

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Speaker 4: was a trill being, not a fedora. If Dora has

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Speaker 4: a wider brim.

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Speaker 3: Af atic gotta gotta got it, so sort of like

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Speaker 3: that hat then the I think you should leave sketchule

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Speaker 3: without the flap on.

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Speaker 4: The back, yes, sort of like yeah, and he could.

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Speaker 4: He's the only guy who could pull it off.

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Speaker 3: You know, I need Does the professor have signs of

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Speaker 3: Devin Dice in his pocket? That's something I'd be looking

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Speaker 3: for as.

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Speaker 4: Well other things. Does the professor have glasses? Do they havecals?

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Speaker 3: Right?

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Speaker 4: And we're joking a little bit about physical appearance, but

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Speaker 4: these are also the subconscious cues that students in the

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Speaker 4: class would would use in their own estimation. And when

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Speaker 4: these folks were just guessing off ten seconds of silent film,

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Speaker 4: their ratings, as long as they came into those videos cold,

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Speaker 4: their ratings correlated very strongly with the end of semester

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Speaker 4: ratings that students gave after taking the entire course. And

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Speaker 4: then then they did something else again. This psychologist has

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Speaker 4: passed away, but brilliant work. She had another set of

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Speaker 4: participants count backwards from one thousand by nine as they

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Speaker 4: as they watched the clip. I know it's like that

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Speaker 4: Dui test, say the alphabet backwards. Most people can't do that.

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Speaker 4: Sober and so so they're they're doing a kind of

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Speaker 4: difficult counting task, arithmetic task, and they're doing it while

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Speaker 4: they're watching the clips, So the clips are just kind

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Speaker 4: of playing and their conscious memory is engaged elsewhere trying

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Speaker 4: to count backwards by nines from a thousand, and guess

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Speaker 4: what their ratings of those ten second clips just as

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Speaker 4: accurate when they were like barely paying attention. Really, yeah,

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Speaker 4: I'm not even sure one counting one thousand backwards by nine,

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Speaker 4: does that mean subtract nine each time? So is it

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Speaker 4: like nine hundred ninety one?

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Speaker 3: That's I can't do that field test here, give me

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Speaker 3: a break.

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Speaker 5: But that is really interesting because it's borderline judging a

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Speaker 5: book by its cover really is right just by looking

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Speaker 5: at the appearance in basic mannerisms. It's fascinating because I

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Speaker 5: I think I understand what this psychologist is trying to do,

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Speaker 5: and I think we've laid it.

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Speaker 2: Out really well here.

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Speaker 5: It's just it does feel like you're just kind of

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Speaker 5: judging somebody by their appearance and mannerism, right.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, Well, and I think we've certainly all seen examples

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Speaker 3: in like pop culture where there'll be a fake out

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Speaker 3: where like someone thinks they're about to get murdered, but

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Speaker 3: it turns out it's actually just the kindly next door

434
00:25:23,040 --> 00:25:25,359
Speaker 3: neighbor coming to like tell them they've dropped their keys

435
00:25:25,359 --> 00:25:27,480
Speaker 3: in the yard. You know. So when you're on that

436
00:25:27,600 --> 00:25:29,520
Speaker 3: in that heightened state, I mean again, this is probably

437
00:25:29,560 --> 00:25:32,679
Speaker 3: a character that's already had threat of murder done to

438
00:25:32,680 --> 00:25:34,960
Speaker 3: them at some point in the in the film, let's

439
00:25:34,960 --> 00:25:38,360
Speaker 3: call it. So they're already kind of thinking that they're

440
00:25:38,400 --> 00:25:40,960
Speaker 3: sort of predicting that that's like the outcome that they're

441
00:25:41,040 --> 00:25:45,040
Speaker 3: they're going to expect. But it often is exactly that

442
00:25:45,160 --> 00:25:46,840
Speaker 3: judging a book by its cover, and it's a real

443
00:25:46,880 --> 00:25:49,560
Speaker 3: quick way to look like a jerk if you're if

444
00:25:49,600 --> 00:25:54,880
Speaker 3: you're dead wrong. There's also a reason books have covers

445
00:25:56,000 --> 00:25:57,720
Speaker 3: like that. Process.

446
00:25:57,840 --> 00:26:01,879
Speaker 4: Yeah, that's it's so irksome. But a ton of people

447
00:26:02,280 --> 00:26:05,840
Speaker 4: read you. You get it, folks, So it's it's weird

448
00:26:05,880 --> 00:26:08,879
Speaker 4: because here's the plot twist. There's already we've already had

449
00:26:08,920 --> 00:26:11,600
Speaker 4: some twists here, but here's a here's another shamala on

450
00:26:11,760 --> 00:26:17,520
Speaker 4: for us. When the groups were asked to write out

451
00:26:17,840 --> 00:26:21,160
Speaker 4: their reasoning a rubric. This is how I will rate

452
00:26:21,240 --> 00:26:23,720
Speaker 4: this professor based on this clip. When they were asked

453
00:26:23,720 --> 00:26:26,639
Speaker 4: to write out this thing before they gave their rating.

454
00:26:27,600 --> 00:26:34,159
Speaker 4: Their accuracy dropped dramatically. It plummeted. Something about the conscious

455
00:26:34,240 --> 00:26:37,840
Speaker 4: thought applied to this screwed up their game.

456
00:26:39,119 --> 00:26:40,160
Speaker 3: That's weird, which.

457
00:26:40,640 --> 00:26:43,400
Speaker 4: Doesn't really make sense, right, because we would assume that,

458
00:26:44,359 --> 00:26:49,480
Speaker 4: all things being equal, if you were intuitive, you know,

459
00:26:49,600 --> 00:26:54,000
Speaker 4: your instant quick reads were just always happening. Then thinking

460
00:26:54,040 --> 00:26:58,320
Speaker 4: about them, why does that? Why is that such an interference.

461
00:26:58,400 --> 00:27:00,560
Speaker 4: It's like there's a silent machine running.

462
00:27:02,560 --> 00:27:06,760
Speaker 3: Also a great film, so silent running. Unrelated to vibes,

463
00:27:06,960 --> 00:27:09,120
Speaker 3: but no, it's it's also one of those things where

464
00:27:09,160 --> 00:27:11,680
Speaker 3: it's like creativity, Like the more you think about that

465
00:27:11,800 --> 00:27:15,439
Speaker 3: mechanism or whatever that that that thing is that allows

466
00:27:15,480 --> 00:27:17,240
Speaker 3: us to be creative, the more you think about that

467
00:27:17,280 --> 00:27:19,720
Speaker 3: and force it, the more the less creative you're going

468
00:27:19,760 --> 00:27:21,800
Speaker 3: to be. I mean, it's not one to one, but

469
00:27:21,880 --> 00:27:26,000
Speaker 3: it is this silent kind of sensor mechanism that's either

470
00:27:26,480 --> 00:27:29,080
Speaker 3: you know, coming up with ideas in the background or

471
00:27:29,240 --> 00:27:32,040
Speaker 3: taking in information you know in the background. The more

472
00:27:32,080 --> 00:27:33,800
Speaker 3: you acknowledge it, the more it's going to kind of

473
00:27:33,840 --> 00:27:34,560
Speaker 3: like clam up.

474
00:27:35,200 --> 00:27:37,879
Speaker 4: I also kind of think, I like the metaphor of

475
00:27:38,800 --> 00:27:43,080
Speaker 4: you know the difficulty figuring out light. Humans are still

476
00:27:43,119 --> 00:27:46,120
Speaker 4: not great at figuring out whether light is a particle

477
00:27:46,280 --> 00:27:50,360
Speaker 4: or a wave, because putting too much attention on that

478
00:27:50,480 --> 00:27:54,040
Speaker 4: process can actually hamper it, you know what I mean,

479
00:27:54,080 --> 00:27:57,800
Speaker 4: depending on what you're observing and the double slit experiment

480
00:27:58,560 --> 00:28:01,639
Speaker 4: with light and then maybe it's the same like you're saying,

481
00:28:01,880 --> 00:28:06,800
Speaker 4: maybe it's the same with intuition and artistry. De Becker's book,

482
00:28:07,520 --> 00:28:09,400
Speaker 4: like you can tell from the title, it has two

483
00:28:09,400 --> 00:28:15,160
Speaker 4: big words, gift and fear. It overwhelmingly focuses on intuition

484
00:28:15,359 --> 00:28:19,400
Speaker 4: as a means of safety and harm prevention and survival.

485
00:28:19,520 --> 00:28:22,199
Speaker 4: And if you have not read this book yet, it

486
00:28:22,320 --> 00:28:25,800
Speaker 4: is very much worth your time, regardless of who you are.

487
00:28:25,960 --> 00:28:30,600
Speaker 4: It is just filled with bangers after bangers, ice cold bars,

488
00:28:30,680 --> 00:28:32,640
Speaker 4: this guy as Yeah.

489
00:28:32,720 --> 00:28:36,080
Speaker 5: In that book, you learn about something called pins pi

490
00:28:36,440 --> 00:28:37,840
Speaker 5: NS and.

491
00:28:37,840 --> 00:28:39,080
Speaker 3: Please let it be an acronym.

492
00:28:39,560 --> 00:28:44,800
Speaker 5: It is, my goodness, pre incident indicators.

493
00:28:45,880 --> 00:28:48,680
Speaker 4: Okay, the sexiest acronym, but it gets the job done.

494
00:28:49,080 --> 00:28:51,920
Speaker 2: And what is a pin, you might ask, Well.

495
00:28:51,920 --> 00:28:53,720
Speaker 3: Let's put a pin in that it'll take a quick

496
00:28:53,720 --> 00:28:57,320
Speaker 3: break from And I'm kidding it'd be such a good

497
00:28:57,320 --> 00:28:58,120
Speaker 3: transition though.

498
00:28:58,440 --> 00:29:05,960
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's a pen, could be something like the way

499
00:29:06,200 --> 00:29:09,840
Speaker 4: a person interacts with you. There's a great anecdote that

500
00:29:09,920 --> 00:29:15,840
Speaker 4: de Becker says he saw himself. A person is on

501
00:29:15,920 --> 00:29:18,960
Speaker 4: a plane. He's sitting on a plane. There are there

502
00:29:18,960 --> 00:29:21,400
Speaker 4: are two other people he notices on the plane, and

503
00:29:21,800 --> 00:29:25,280
Speaker 4: one of them is a kind of skeazy guy, and

504
00:29:25,280 --> 00:29:29,800
Speaker 4: the other one is a young lady. And this guy

505
00:29:30,560 --> 00:29:34,600
Speaker 4: is doing some like predatory questioning, getting to know you

506
00:29:35,200 --> 00:29:38,200
Speaker 4: p UA kind of stuff, pick up artist stuff where

507
00:29:38,320 --> 00:29:46,560
Speaker 4: he's leveraging microaggressions and small social mores to get information

508
00:29:47,240 --> 00:29:51,680
Speaker 4: about this person, to find out if she's traveling alone,

509
00:29:51,720 --> 00:29:57,520
Speaker 4: if anybody's waiting to meet her at the airport. And

510
00:29:58,520 --> 00:30:01,479
Speaker 4: these things can be seem very very small at first.

511
00:30:01,560 --> 00:30:04,040
Speaker 4: But what he finds in a lot of different accounts

512
00:30:04,200 --> 00:30:08,800
Speaker 4: is that when people have survived a dangerous situation, they

513
00:30:08,920 --> 00:30:12,640
Speaker 4: look back and those little things that they were consciously

514
00:30:12,680 --> 00:30:17,160
Speaker 4: ignoring seem incredibly significant in retrospect.

515
00:30:17,680 --> 00:30:21,200
Speaker 3: Well, and if you've been the victim of, say a crime,

516
00:30:21,320 --> 00:30:24,760
Speaker 3: where you didn't notice those signs until after the fact,

517
00:30:25,240 --> 00:30:28,360
Speaker 3: moving forward, you're probably gonna notice those things a hell

518
00:30:28,400 --> 00:30:30,960
Speaker 3: of a lot more, even sometimes when they're not there.

519
00:30:31,440 --> 00:30:34,200
Speaker 3: Or when they're not actually you know what you would

520
00:30:34,200 --> 00:30:36,520
Speaker 3: think they are, and just you know, to your point

521
00:30:36,520 --> 00:30:39,479
Speaker 3: been in the point that this author is making. Throughout history,

522
00:30:39,800 --> 00:30:43,680
Speaker 3: women have had to hoe in this sense even more

523
00:30:43,840 --> 00:30:47,720
Speaker 3: sharply because of incidents involving folks harassing them. I mean,

524
00:30:47,800 --> 00:30:50,960
Speaker 3: in fact, a colleague of ours who I name, recently

525
00:30:50,960 --> 00:30:55,280
Speaker 3: posted a video about being you know, flirted with at

526
00:30:55,320 --> 00:30:57,720
Speaker 3: the gym and how there's a fine line between like

527
00:30:57,760 --> 00:31:00,280
Speaker 3: going to you know, ask somebody out in the gym

528
00:31:00,440 --> 00:31:02,720
Speaker 3: versus following them out to their car, because the moment

529
00:31:02,760 --> 00:31:04,640
Speaker 3: you follow them out of their car, that vibe check

530
00:31:05,040 --> 00:31:08,040
Speaker 3: is off the charts. You know, someone's knocking on your window.

531
00:31:08,800 --> 00:31:10,800
Speaker 3: That is not the same as someone approaching you in

532
00:31:10,840 --> 00:31:13,120
Speaker 3: a public space where there's lots of people around and

533
00:31:13,160 --> 00:31:17,200
Speaker 3: respectfully asking if you wouldn't mind, you know, giving their

534
00:31:17,320 --> 00:31:18,920
Speaker 3: number or going on a data or whatever. But the

535
00:31:18,920 --> 00:31:21,640
Speaker 3: moment you leave and are in a parking lot, that

536
00:31:22,080 --> 00:31:26,200
Speaker 3: equipment shifts and all of a sudden, the threat is identified.

537
00:31:26,600 --> 00:31:30,200
Speaker 4: I think we've all to some degree had to regardless

538
00:31:30,200 --> 00:31:33,960
Speaker 4: of your demographic, you've had to deal with people who

539
00:31:34,240 --> 00:31:37,680
Speaker 4: attempt to violate your boundaries. I don't deal with it

540
00:31:37,800 --> 00:31:42,719
Speaker 4: very well personally, and there are a multitude of ways

541
00:31:42,760 --> 00:31:44,720
Speaker 4: to deal with this. Maybe one of the most helpful

542
00:31:44,720 --> 00:31:48,239
Speaker 4: things is to talk about pre incident indicators. And I

543
00:31:48,240 --> 00:31:50,640
Speaker 4: want to shout out an excellent line to Becker had

544
00:31:51,360 --> 00:31:55,600
Speaker 4: in conversation with a colleague of his. She said, the

545
00:31:55,760 --> 00:32:01,640
Speaker 4: number one thing mail or male identifying folks are frightened

546
00:32:01,640 --> 00:32:05,480
Speaker 4: of is women laughing at them. That's the idea. The

547
00:32:05,560 --> 00:32:08,720
Speaker 4: number one thing women or women identifying people are afraid

548
00:32:08,720 --> 00:32:12,240
Speaker 4: of when it comes to dudes is getting killed by them.

549
00:32:12,480 --> 00:32:16,520
Speaker 4: And that's a hell of a difference. So pre incident indicators,

550
00:32:16,600 --> 00:32:20,080
Speaker 4: just spe examples are things like forced teeming. That's when

551
00:32:20,120 --> 00:32:24,040
Speaker 4: you resort to the royal we with a stranger like, well,

552
00:32:24,200 --> 00:32:27,440
Speaker 4: you know, we've gotta let me help you carry these

553
00:32:27,720 --> 00:32:29,800
Speaker 4: you know, we've got to help you feed your family.

554
00:32:29,880 --> 00:32:31,840
Speaker 4: Now all of a sudden, where we I don't know

555
00:32:31,880 --> 00:32:36,840
Speaker 4: you bro the too many details, type casting, loan sharking,

556
00:32:37,000 --> 00:32:40,520
Speaker 4: all these things. They seem small at first, but they

557
00:32:40,520 --> 00:32:45,120
Speaker 4: are each in attempt to transgress a boundary. And then

558
00:32:45,160 --> 00:32:47,120
Speaker 4: they can also just be a little visual jews.

559
00:32:47,720 --> 00:32:47,920
Speaker 3: Right.

560
00:32:48,360 --> 00:32:52,160
Speaker 4: His argument is that by noticing pins, by paying attention

561
00:32:52,400 --> 00:32:57,120
Speaker 4: to our intuition and our vibes. People are better prepared

562
00:32:57,160 --> 00:33:02,000
Speaker 4: to escape harmful situations or hopefully howard, to avoid them entirely,

563
00:33:02,560 --> 00:33:06,000
Speaker 4: even though that's not always possible. There was one scenario,

564
00:33:06,440 --> 00:33:09,080
Speaker 4: another one where he talks about a woman who is

565
00:33:09,640 --> 00:33:13,520
Speaker 4: in a car by an atm at night and she

566
00:33:13,560 --> 00:33:16,960
Speaker 4: has a sudden sense of fear and she can't explain it.

567
00:33:17,600 --> 00:33:21,960
Speaker 4: She gets carjacked shortly after, and what seems to have

568
00:33:22,000 --> 00:33:26,720
Speaker 4: happened is that her subconscious register a small flash, very quick,

569
00:33:26,800 --> 00:33:31,480
Speaker 4: of blue in the side view mirror. And it's because

570
00:33:31,520 --> 00:33:35,360
Speaker 4: the assailant was wearing jeans. And that's something that I

571
00:33:35,360 --> 00:33:37,120
Speaker 4: think happens to a lot of people. You're sitting in

572
00:33:37,160 --> 00:33:40,160
Speaker 4: the car, you see a movement and you're peripheral, right,

573
00:33:40,280 --> 00:33:42,120
Speaker 4: you could just be parked absolutely.

574
00:33:43,320 --> 00:33:45,080
Speaker 3: I don't remember the artist, but I always feel like

575
00:33:45,160 --> 00:33:49,320
Speaker 3: somebody's watching me. I mean, have you do get the willies?

576
00:33:49,400 --> 00:33:51,760
Speaker 3: You get the sense if someone in the shadows has

577
00:33:51,800 --> 00:33:54,120
Speaker 3: eyes on you, even if you don't think you can

578
00:33:54,160 --> 00:33:57,560
Speaker 3: see them. It's a feeling. It's a vibe, you know.

579
00:33:57,840 --> 00:34:01,360
Speaker 3: And I don't know if it's attributed to psychic anything

580
00:34:01,480 --> 00:34:04,560
Speaker 3: or any kind of like mystical force. But I also

581
00:34:04,640 --> 00:34:07,520
Speaker 3: don't know. Maybe it's just you're right, Ben, it's just

582
00:34:07,600 --> 00:34:11,480
Speaker 3: such a subconscious little tick, like a shadow passing, and

583
00:34:11,680 --> 00:34:14,839
Speaker 3: then in your mind you connect the dots. But who

584
00:34:14,880 --> 00:34:17,839
Speaker 3: knows what what you actually saw because it's so quick

585
00:34:17,880 --> 00:34:20,000
Speaker 3: and your mind is moving so much faster than your

586
00:34:20,800 --> 00:34:23,640
Speaker 3: your eyes are, or your subconscious moves so much faster

587
00:34:23,960 --> 00:34:26,280
Speaker 3: than your conscious mind. Is I reckon?

588
00:34:26,680 --> 00:34:29,799
Speaker 5: Well, yeah, think about that, a flash of movement in

589
00:34:29,840 --> 00:34:33,920
Speaker 5: the background somewhere or near you that you are uncertain

590
00:34:33,960 --> 00:34:36,640
Speaker 5: of what that thing was, but your your mind is

591
00:34:36,640 --> 00:34:40,000
Speaker 5: certain there was movement, right that. I mean that goes

592
00:34:40,040 --> 00:34:43,040
Speaker 5: back to movement in the grass, or movement in the

593
00:34:43,080 --> 00:34:45,560
Speaker 5: tree line, or you know, all of that stuff that's

594
00:34:45,560 --> 00:34:49,520
Speaker 5: so deeply ingrained in our biology, especially.

595
00:34:49,120 --> 00:34:52,680
Speaker 3: If you surveyed the scene when you first arrived, and

596
00:34:52,800 --> 00:34:57,040
Speaker 3: then all of a sudden, there's there's stimuli indicating that

597
00:34:57,080 --> 00:34:59,560
Speaker 3: you missed something you know, or that that there's something

598
00:34:59,640 --> 00:35:00,880
Speaker 3: there that wasn't there before.

599
00:35:02,080 --> 00:35:07,480
Speaker 4: Pattern recognition looking for incongruities and anomalies. It's the same reason.

600
00:35:07,880 --> 00:35:13,280
Speaker 4: For instance, you'll hear about families where let's say one

601
00:35:13,480 --> 00:35:17,520
Speaker 4: partner can totally sleep like a log when the other

602
00:35:17,560 --> 00:35:21,280
Speaker 4: one comes home late and is like opening doors, maybe

603
00:35:21,320 --> 00:35:24,520
Speaker 4: cooking something. They take the car into the garage and

604
00:35:24,680 --> 00:35:28,319
Speaker 4: that doesn't register. But then let's say they have a

605
00:35:28,320 --> 00:35:30,640
Speaker 4: four year old and the four year old wakes up

606
00:35:30,680 --> 00:35:34,640
Speaker 4: at night. Then instantly the other person is awake for

607
00:35:35,719 --> 00:35:39,200
Speaker 4: some reason. They're asleep. Okay, their conscious mind is not

608
00:35:39,360 --> 00:35:44,319
Speaker 4: doing anything. It's the subconscious. And this person who got carjacked,

609
00:35:44,600 --> 00:35:48,160
Speaker 4: her same intuition told her to remain calm and believe

610
00:35:48,200 --> 00:35:50,600
Speaker 4: it or not, how crazy this might sound. She has

611
00:35:50,640 --> 00:35:54,000
Speaker 4: a friendly chat with the criminal, as friendly as possible

612
00:35:54,040 --> 00:35:57,840
Speaker 4: given the circumstances, because she is certain that he would

613
00:35:57,840 --> 00:36:02,120
Speaker 4: not murder someone he felt he had spoken with or had,

614
00:36:02,239 --> 00:36:06,439
Speaker 4: you know, some kind of familiarity with. It turned out,

615
00:36:06,560 --> 00:36:09,640
Speaker 4: thankfully that she was right. There are countless other examples

616
00:36:09,680 --> 00:36:14,040
Speaker 4: like this where people have followed their intuition without fully

617
00:36:14,200 --> 00:36:18,480
Speaker 4: understanding what was happening or why. And it's all because

618
00:36:19,960 --> 00:36:22,920
Speaker 4: the best way to say it is your subconscious. If

619
00:36:22,920 --> 00:36:27,800
Speaker 4: you're human, your subconscious is awesome at clocking tiny things

620
00:36:28,160 --> 00:36:32,360
Speaker 4: and sort of doing a red string conspiracy board instantly.

621
00:36:32,760 --> 00:36:36,319
Speaker 4: It's awesome at that. It also really really sucks it's

622
00:36:36,320 --> 00:36:40,279
Speaker 4: showing its work or explaining itself, you know what I mean.

623
00:36:40,360 --> 00:36:43,239
Speaker 4: It's like just that you know, it could solve these

624
00:36:43,280 --> 00:36:46,960
Speaker 4: brilliant social equations, but if you ask it to write

625
00:36:47,000 --> 00:36:50,000
Speaker 4: out the steps, it's going to disappoint you.

626
00:36:50,080 --> 00:36:52,800
Speaker 3: Well, that's because it is bordering on a sixth sense,

627
00:36:53,000 --> 00:36:54,920
Speaker 3: isn't it. You know what I mean. Like, we can

628
00:36:55,000 --> 00:36:57,759
Speaker 3: explain most of our senses and how they work and

629
00:36:57,840 --> 00:37:00,160
Speaker 3: the mechanics of them, you know, and for the for

630
00:37:00,200 --> 00:37:02,360
Speaker 3: the most part, but that thing you're describing is a

631
00:37:02,400 --> 00:37:04,880
Speaker 3: little harder to quantify, which I think is why sometimes

632
00:37:04,880 --> 00:37:10,240
Speaker 3: it gets lumped in with more you know, sixth sense

633
00:37:10,560 --> 00:37:11,879
Speaker 3: esque kind of abilities.

634
00:37:12,480 --> 00:37:15,719
Speaker 5: Yeah, but we have to also say that that thing

635
00:37:15,760 --> 00:37:19,520
Speaker 5: that we're talking about, that making a conspiracy board in

636
00:37:19,520 --> 00:37:21,040
Speaker 5: your mind, sometimes.

637
00:37:20,560 --> 00:37:23,359
Speaker 2: We get it wrong, like really wrong, Oh big time.

638
00:37:23,480 --> 00:37:26,439
Speaker 5: Our vibes are way off, and it's just I mean,

639
00:37:26,600 --> 00:37:29,640
Speaker 5: we just have to That's why it stinks so badly,

640
00:37:29,719 --> 00:37:32,520
Speaker 5: because sometimes they're right on the money. Sometimes they're the

641
00:37:32,560 --> 00:37:33,400
Speaker 5: complete opposite.

642
00:37:33,680 --> 00:37:36,759
Speaker 4: So he yeah, just kind of roll the dice right,

643
00:37:36,840 --> 00:37:39,359
Speaker 4: and we're gonna explain some of that too. I mean,

644
00:37:39,520 --> 00:37:41,920
Speaker 4: the thing is right now, there's no telepathy. It's just

645
00:37:42,040 --> 00:37:44,880
Speaker 4: some part of you notice something off. And it's trying

646
00:37:44,960 --> 00:37:47,480
Speaker 4: to tell the rest of you in this kind of

647
00:37:47,560 --> 00:37:53,239
Speaker 4: survival harm reduction situation. Oftentimes people ignore these pins at

648
00:37:53,280 --> 00:37:57,560
Speaker 4: their peril because humans are explainers. They want to know

649
00:37:57,600 --> 00:38:00,279
Speaker 4: why they feel a given way, and they'll play all

650
00:38:00,360 --> 00:38:03,960
Speaker 4: kinds of cognitive park war with the rationalizations, Oh, I

651
00:38:04,239 --> 00:38:08,279
Speaker 4: don't trust this person because I was having a bad day,

652
00:38:08,880 --> 00:38:11,920
Speaker 4: or I'm just you know, I'm already feeling hurried at

653
00:38:11,960 --> 00:38:16,120
Speaker 4: the grocery store in the airport, what have you? And

654
00:38:16,360 --> 00:38:19,959
Speaker 4: I want to adhere to social morase. I don't want

655
00:38:20,000 --> 00:38:22,720
Speaker 4: to make a scene. I want to go with the flow. Again.

656
00:38:22,920 --> 00:38:27,240
Speaker 4: Criminals can count on that sense of normalcy everything being fined.

657
00:38:27,280 --> 00:38:30,400
Speaker 4: They could weaponize it, exploit it, leverage it, manipulate you

658
00:38:30,480 --> 00:38:35,000
Speaker 4: into unsafe situations. That you're right, Matt, your first impressions

659
00:38:35,040 --> 00:38:38,760
Speaker 4: are not always correct, and you cannot always trust your gut.

660
00:38:39,160 --> 00:38:41,759
Speaker 3: Well, wouldn't you say that in the same way that

661
00:38:41,920 --> 00:38:46,960
Speaker 3: criminals maybe are good at those types of manipulations, ben Like,

662
00:38:47,000 --> 00:38:50,800
Speaker 3: in those types of maybe kind of sleight of hands

663
00:38:50,800 --> 00:38:52,719
Speaker 3: where you're sort of like, you know, luring someone into

664
00:38:52,760 --> 00:38:55,399
Speaker 3: a fault sense of security or indating a boundary. Don't

665
00:38:55,400 --> 00:38:57,359
Speaker 3: you think there are some people that, do you have

666
00:38:58,080 --> 00:39:02,880
Speaker 3: higher level intuition, maybe come detectives or become interrogators or

667
00:39:02,920 --> 00:39:05,560
Speaker 3: you know whatever. Maybe there's are too close together, but

668
00:39:05,640 --> 00:39:08,440
Speaker 3: there certainly are. I think people that have either honed

669
00:39:08,480 --> 00:39:11,759
Speaker 3: that ability through practice like you can with anything, or

670
00:39:12,000 --> 00:39:13,080
Speaker 3: just kind of gifted at it.

671
00:39:14,080 --> 00:39:17,239
Speaker 4: Quite possibly. Yeah, childhood upbringing has a lot to do

672
00:39:17,360 --> 00:39:21,520
Speaker 4: with it. Children who grow up in chaotic or abusive

673
00:39:21,560 --> 00:39:24,319
Speaker 4: homes have to hone that skill. They have to be

674
00:39:24,480 --> 00:39:28,759
Speaker 4: very They have to spend a lot of time practicing

675
00:39:28,800 --> 00:39:32,279
Speaker 4: how to predict behavior and sometimes I can lead to

676
00:39:32,360 --> 00:39:36,439
Speaker 4: the heartbreaking cycle of abuse phenomenon. Sometimes it makes them very,

677
00:39:36,560 --> 00:39:40,440
Speaker 4: very good at reading people. And that's I mean this.

678
00:39:40,840 --> 00:39:45,520
Speaker 4: It's more it's oversimplifying to just throw that dichotomy there,

679
00:39:45,600 --> 00:39:48,080
Speaker 4: but I think it does speak to the point you're making,

680
00:39:48,440 --> 00:39:51,319
Speaker 4: you know, And and we have to return your caveats,

681
00:39:51,600 --> 00:39:54,080
Speaker 4: right we said, like you said, Matt, don't you can't

682
00:39:54,360 --> 00:40:00,359
Speaker 4: what happens when your intuition gets it wrong? Well, it's

683
00:40:00,440 --> 00:40:04,880
Speaker 4: because of precedent, perception, and prejudice. I just I've choosen

684
00:40:04,920 --> 00:40:09,200
Speaker 4: those three because they have the alliteration. And we got

685
00:40:09,200 --> 00:40:11,239
Speaker 4: a great letter today from someone who wants to be

686
00:40:11,239 --> 00:40:12,080
Speaker 4: called Peepe.

687
00:40:11,920 --> 00:40:15,120
Speaker 3: The man, one of the best names of recent listener

688
00:40:15,120 --> 00:40:18,560
Speaker 3: mail memory not gonna lie. So the unfortunate truth about

689
00:40:18,960 --> 00:40:25,239
Speaker 3: we human beings thinking life forms is, of course, the

690
00:40:25,760 --> 00:40:30,520
Speaker 3: elephant in the room, the big greasy elephant of prejudice.

691
00:40:31,239 --> 00:40:33,040
Speaker 3: I don't know why he's greasy, but he is, and

692
00:40:33,040 --> 00:40:35,520
Speaker 3: he's in the room, and he's standing right there. A

693
00:40:35,560 --> 00:40:42,080
Speaker 3: person that's raised in a racist environment will inherit racist tendencies,

694
00:40:42,200 --> 00:40:46,040
Speaker 3: or will inherit a worldview, you know, And obviously we

695
00:40:46,120 --> 00:40:49,160
Speaker 3: know plenty of folks that grow up in racist environments

696
00:40:49,400 --> 00:40:51,920
Speaker 3: and are able to shed that, but it usually requires

697
00:40:51,920 --> 00:40:55,040
Speaker 3: some outside force, whether it be a book, whether it

698
00:40:55,040 --> 00:40:57,799
Speaker 3: be another mentor someone to kind of snap him out

699
00:40:57,800 --> 00:41:01,560
Speaker 3: of it. But if there, you know, isolated in that bubble,

700
00:41:02,160 --> 00:41:06,200
Speaker 3: chances are they're gonna exhibit a lot of those traits

701
00:41:06,200 --> 00:41:08,560
Speaker 3: and they're gonna be really hard to shed.

702
00:41:10,120 --> 00:41:14,719
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean, it's not just racism, right, but you're right.

703
00:41:15,239 --> 00:41:19,640
Speaker 4: People's biases are inherited. They're intergenerational. I mean, think of

704
00:41:19,640 --> 00:41:23,560
Speaker 4: the US. Countless people of color find themselves discriminated against,

705
00:41:23,719 --> 00:41:27,439
Speaker 4: unfairly suspected, accused, or even convicted of it. A number

706
00:41:27,520 --> 00:41:30,320
Speaker 4: of ridiculous things. The US is not unique, of course,

707
00:41:30,360 --> 00:41:33,760
Speaker 4: think of India's caste system, a complex web of social

708
00:41:33,880 --> 00:41:38,080
Speaker 4: hierarchies that sadly often achieve similar results. And then, of course,

709
00:41:38,160 --> 00:41:42,000
Speaker 4: you know there's religion. Buddy, We're gonna matrix dodge that

710
00:41:42,040 --> 00:41:44,839
Speaker 4: one for a second. I like these said other life

711
00:41:44,880 --> 00:41:49,160
Speaker 4: forms because you know, a dog gets attacked or abused

712
00:41:49,280 --> 00:41:53,160
Speaker 4: by a person who looks a certain way, maybe a

713
00:41:53,239 --> 00:41:56,400
Speaker 4: human with a beard, and that dog may well hate

714
00:41:56,440 --> 00:41:59,720
Speaker 4: and fear similar looking people for the rest of its life.

715
00:42:00,560 --> 00:42:03,640
Speaker 4: And staying on, you know, again, we said the US

716
00:42:03,719 --> 00:42:08,880
Speaker 4: isn't unique. Humans aren't unique either. In addition to dogs

717
00:42:09,000 --> 00:42:12,840
Speaker 4: or other you know, domesticated pets carrying their prejudice or

718
00:42:12,920 --> 00:42:17,520
Speaker 4: precedent with them, we see that very smart animals can

719
00:42:17,560 --> 00:42:22,080
Speaker 4: do the same. Orcas are knocking over boats because because

720
00:42:22,680 --> 00:42:26,040
Speaker 4: because they found themselves on the wrong side of a

721
00:42:26,080 --> 00:42:28,439
Speaker 4: boat conflict in the past, and they can teach each other.

722
00:42:28,800 --> 00:42:33,360
Speaker 4: Corvids also teach their offspring to remember people who are dicks,

723
00:42:33,640 --> 00:42:36,560
Speaker 4: so be careful around those birds totally.

724
00:42:37,960 --> 00:42:40,200
Speaker 3: And just to double back on something that we'd be

725
00:42:40,320 --> 00:42:42,719
Speaker 3: briefly brought up, this is you know, I think an

726
00:42:42,719 --> 00:42:45,080
Speaker 3: episode undo itself and something that we have yet to

727
00:42:45,120 --> 00:42:50,680
Speaker 3: fully grasp the large larger implications of but AI for example,

728
00:42:50,760 --> 00:42:53,640
Speaker 3: or let's call it language modeling, you know, or whatever

729
00:42:53,640 --> 00:42:58,880
Speaker 3: it's called machine machine learning. We've seen examples of this

730
00:42:59,000 --> 00:43:02,759
Speaker 3: technology being is to profile criminals or to you know,

731
00:43:02,840 --> 00:43:05,680
Speaker 3: seek out suspects and things like that, or to identify

732
00:43:06,040 --> 00:43:10,719
Speaker 3: individuals in in surveillance footage. And we've seen time and

733
00:43:10,760 --> 00:43:14,680
Speaker 3: time again the inherent biases that come along with those

734
00:43:14,880 --> 00:43:19,520
Speaker 3: judgments based on who programmed the AI or what pool

735
00:43:19,760 --> 00:43:22,880
Speaker 3: of information it used to train itself.

736
00:43:24,120 --> 00:43:26,080
Speaker 4: Yeah, and if you want to learn more about that,

737
00:43:26,200 --> 00:43:30,279
Speaker 4: do check out like our previous, uh previous listener mail

738
00:43:30,280 --> 00:43:33,120
Speaker 4: strange news segments we have, we have some pretty scary

739
00:43:33,160 --> 00:43:36,040
Speaker 4: episodes on quote unquote AI, and we have a lot

740
00:43:36,080 --> 00:43:39,279
Speaker 4: of people, a lot of our fellow conspiracy realists who

741
00:43:39,320 --> 00:43:42,799
Speaker 4: are experts in just that field. If we if we

742
00:43:42,840 --> 00:43:45,520
Speaker 4: stick with the humans, which is still pretty popular for now,

743
00:43:46,080 --> 00:43:49,719
Speaker 4: we see that all these kinds of factors, conscious or

744
00:43:50,000 --> 00:43:54,320
Speaker 4: non conscious, can lead to preconceptions. In short, they can

745
00:43:54,480 --> 00:43:57,360
Speaker 4: they can futs with your intuition, They put your vibes

746
00:43:57,400 --> 00:44:02,879
Speaker 4: off good news, uh stuff is taught. All these responses

747
00:44:03,000 --> 00:44:07,279
Speaker 4: are nurture, not nature. A human child does not automatically

748
00:44:07,320 --> 00:44:11,520
Speaker 4: carry stereotypes about race, religion, cast, best sports team, etc.

749
00:44:11,840 --> 00:44:16,160
Speaker 4: It's education and its reinforcement. And the very good news

750
00:44:16,480 --> 00:44:19,799
Speaker 4: is studies show that the more familiar you become with

751
00:44:19,920 --> 00:44:23,880
Speaker 4: people outside of your own demographic, the more likely you

752
00:44:23,920 --> 00:44:29,520
Speaker 4: are to see them as cognizant, equal humans, not just

753
00:44:29,640 --> 00:44:34,840
Speaker 4: some in person representative of an abstract idea. You gotta

754
00:44:34,920 --> 00:44:37,480
Speaker 4: do it. You got to protect your vibe. You know,

755
00:44:37,560 --> 00:44:40,719
Speaker 4: we'll never get to one hundred percent objectivity, but being

756
00:44:40,719 --> 00:44:44,440
Speaker 4: aware of these flaws like you're mentioning, actively interfacing with

757
00:44:44,520 --> 00:44:47,239
Speaker 4: folks that are not exactly like you goes a long

758
00:44:47,239 --> 00:44:51,160
Speaker 4: way towards keeping your vibes your intuition on point, I

759
00:44:51,200 --> 00:44:53,120
Speaker 4: don't know why I fell into kind of an old

760
00:44:53,120 --> 00:44:58,480
Speaker 4: spice commercial cadence there, but the you know, the intentions

761
00:44:58,520 --> 00:44:59,160
Speaker 4: were good.

762
00:45:00,920 --> 00:45:03,439
Speaker 3: As our vibes. So if that will take a quick

763
00:45:03,440 --> 00:45:07,200
Speaker 3: break and then we'll be back with some more vibe talk.

764
00:45:14,080 --> 00:45:20,040
Speaker 4: We have returned. There is another fascinating plausible there, distressingly

765
00:45:20,120 --> 00:45:25,360
Speaker 4: plausible theory for vibes or intuition titling this. You haven't

766
00:45:25,480 --> 00:45:29,600
Speaker 4: thought about the smell that is one of the things

767
00:45:29,600 --> 00:45:32,880
Speaker 4: that may well lead us to a second episode on vibes.

768
00:45:32,960 --> 00:45:38,920
Speaker 4: According to researchers, humans can detect what are called chemo signals.

769
00:45:39,160 --> 00:45:44,080
Speaker 4: Chemo signals through smelling bodily excretion, such as sweat or

770
00:45:44,160 --> 00:45:49,319
Speaker 4: tears leftover from people previously at a place. All right,

771
00:45:49,400 --> 00:45:53,000
Speaker 4: so a lot of mammals transmit chemical signals, you know

772
00:45:53,040 --> 00:45:56,000
Speaker 4: what I mean. Dogs piss on the fire hydrant. That's

773
00:45:56,040 --> 00:45:59,560
Speaker 4: like the community bulletin board for doggos. Cats rub their

774
00:45:59,640 --> 00:46:03,399
Speaker 4: cheeks on stuff, or use urine to mark their territory, right,

775
00:46:03,480 --> 00:46:06,600
Speaker 4: all a lot of animals do this. For a long

776
00:46:06,640 --> 00:46:10,359
Speaker 4: time people wondered whether humans were doing the same thing.

777
00:46:10,719 --> 00:46:13,879
Speaker 4: And this is where you see stuff like a fair

778
00:46:14,040 --> 00:46:19,520
Speaker 4: moon coloon. Make yourself irresistible to the ladies with horse sweat.

779
00:46:20,520 --> 00:46:25,080
Speaker 3: I mean, remember what was it axe body spray, which

780
00:46:25,280 --> 00:46:27,000
Speaker 3: literally is just that the only thing that's doing to

781
00:46:27,000 --> 00:46:29,080
Speaker 3: the ladies is making them, you know, turn and run

782
00:46:29,120 --> 00:46:31,719
Speaker 3: and droves. But wasn't there a thing that was meant

783
00:46:31,760 --> 00:46:35,440
Speaker 3: to contain some kind of pheromone or was that just

784
00:46:35,640 --> 00:46:36,720
Speaker 3: marketing bs?

785
00:46:38,239 --> 00:46:44,560
Speaker 4: So pheromone cologne is still very much a thing as

786
00:46:44,680 --> 00:46:51,399
Speaker 4: far as the medical claims, we don't we can't really

787
00:46:51,440 --> 00:46:54,680
Speaker 4: speak to their efficacy. It may be a placebo effect

788
00:46:54,719 --> 00:46:57,040
Speaker 4: and it may just make you feel more confident, which

789
00:46:57,160 --> 00:46:58,520
Speaker 4: ultimately is the same thing.

790
00:46:59,080 --> 00:47:01,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, I still have a bottle of sex Panther. I

791
00:47:01,040 --> 00:47:02,480
Speaker 2: don't know about you guys.

792
00:47:02,280 --> 00:47:05,920
Speaker 3: But sex Panther was supposed to smell like a baby

793
00:47:05,960 --> 00:47:09,879
Speaker 3: diaper full of Indian food or something that they said

794
00:47:10,120 --> 00:47:13,360
Speaker 3: in the movie you're talking about Anchorman, right, yes.

795
00:47:14,080 --> 00:47:19,240
Speaker 4: Or trecard noir, which is the opposite of a pheromone colone.

796
00:47:19,280 --> 00:47:21,840
Speaker 4: It's a it's an avoidance mechanism colone.

797
00:47:22,280 --> 00:47:25,279
Speaker 5: Well, it is interesting that in this in this list, Ben,

798
00:47:25,320 --> 00:47:29,920
Speaker 5: we're talking about tears and sweat and other you know stuff.

799
00:47:30,000 --> 00:47:34,400
Speaker 5: It does feel like maybe genital excretions should be on

800
00:47:34,480 --> 00:47:37,200
Speaker 5: there as well. Maybe they are included because well, it's

801
00:47:37,239 --> 00:47:42,680
Speaker 5: because things that we are trained to smell biologically, right.

802
00:47:44,239 --> 00:47:45,160
Speaker 4: How gross you want to go?

803
00:47:45,800 --> 00:47:48,480
Speaker 3: Well, I mean, I think people can maybe use their imaginations,

804
00:47:48,480 --> 00:47:51,680
Speaker 3: but you're definitely right. I mean, you know this. I mean, look,

805
00:47:51,680 --> 00:47:53,920
Speaker 3: I'm just gonna say. The movie it's called Scent of

806
00:47:53,960 --> 00:47:57,640
Speaker 3: a Woman. Okay, it's with Robert de Niro. You know,

807
00:47:57,719 --> 00:47:58,799
Speaker 3: he goes oh and.

808
00:48:00,719 --> 00:48:01,080
Speaker 2: Reaction.

809
00:48:04,280 --> 00:48:06,680
Speaker 3: He's a character who is who is blind. And I

810
00:48:06,719 --> 00:48:08,560
Speaker 3: actually don't remember the plot of the movie very well,

811
00:48:08,560 --> 00:48:11,760
Speaker 3: but the idea of you know, being able to sense

812
00:48:11,880 --> 00:48:16,759
Speaker 3: a woman's sexual interest in someone, you know, based on

813
00:48:16,920 --> 00:48:20,920
Speaker 3: a let's just call it an awakening, right or the

814
00:48:20,960 --> 00:48:25,080
Speaker 3: other creepy part like you'll see this often in horror films,

815
00:48:25,200 --> 00:48:27,680
Speaker 3: or you'll see the claim where some cult leaders do

816
00:48:27,800 --> 00:48:32,640
Speaker 3: this too, where they're like, she's ripe, you know what

817
00:48:32,680 --> 00:48:35,520
Speaker 3: I mean? They claim to say that.

818
00:48:35,480 --> 00:48:40,040
Speaker 4: They can tell when someone has menstruating or omulating, et cetera.

819
00:48:40,320 --> 00:48:44,240
Speaker 4: And so for a long time people have wondered whether

820
00:48:44,600 --> 00:48:49,759
Speaker 4: humans were capable of emitting and sensing Sometimes they call

821
00:48:49,800 --> 00:48:53,399
Speaker 4: them pheromones. A better term would be Chemo's signals. Right

822
00:48:53,840 --> 00:48:55,520
Speaker 4: this way, we want to give a shout out to

823
00:48:55,560 --> 00:49:00,920
Speaker 4: some folks from the Netherlands, particularly Jasper HB degree, who

824
00:49:01,480 --> 00:49:05,560
Speaker 4: for a while was very focused on Chemo's signals and

825
00:49:05,600 --> 00:49:09,560
Speaker 4: whether they happened between humans. And this is what Jasper

826
00:49:09,600 --> 00:49:14,320
Speaker 4: and co. Found in twenty twelve. They had dudes watch

827
00:49:14,640 --> 00:49:20,040
Speaker 4: either a scary or a disgusting video and they had

828
00:49:20,080 --> 00:49:24,160
Speaker 4: them wear a certain T shirt while they did this. Beforehand,

829
00:49:24,320 --> 00:49:27,960
Speaker 4: each participant in the study had to follow a set

830
00:49:28,000 --> 00:49:30,880
Speaker 4: of pretty stringent rules. No axe, body spray, you know

831
00:49:30,960 --> 00:49:34,040
Speaker 4: what I mean, No strong soap, no cologne, nothing that

832
00:49:34,080 --> 00:49:38,880
Speaker 4: would alter or interfere with their body's natural scent. So

833
00:49:39,120 --> 00:49:42,680
Speaker 4: after they watched a very scary or a very disgusting video,

834
00:49:44,360 --> 00:49:47,480
Speaker 4: Jasper and his crew took these guys' shirts and they

835
00:49:47,520 --> 00:49:51,160
Speaker 4: gave them to another set of participants. They gave them

836
00:49:51,200 --> 00:49:54,160
Speaker 4: to women, and they asked the women to smell the

837
00:49:54,200 --> 00:49:57,440
Speaker 4: shirts and tell them the vibe.

838
00:49:57,920 --> 00:50:00,799
Speaker 5: WHOA, well, hold on, don't each of us kind of

839
00:50:00,800 --> 00:50:05,839
Speaker 5: have our own sent to our body odor depending on

840
00:50:05,840 --> 00:50:08,640
Speaker 5: our diet, our genetics and all this other stuff.

841
00:50:09,800 --> 00:50:12,480
Speaker 4: It's a good question. Yeah, I mean, I, for one,

842
00:50:12,600 --> 00:50:14,640
Speaker 4: smell intriguy.

843
00:50:15,880 --> 00:50:19,600
Speaker 3: So that's actually the name of venice fragrance. It's called

844
00:50:21,960 --> 00:50:27,360
Speaker 3: Jesus a man musk mysterious musk.

845
00:50:28,560 --> 00:50:33,880
Speaker 4: Crows follow him. But where so all right, well, okay,

846
00:50:33,960 --> 00:50:35,560
Speaker 4: everybody gets a little i us.

847
00:50:35,800 --> 00:50:36,040
Speaker 3: Uh.

848
00:50:36,120 --> 00:50:40,520
Speaker 4: So these researchers, they uh, they found that the people

849
00:50:40,520 --> 00:50:46,600
Speaker 4: who received fear shirts shirts with sweat that was create

850
00:50:46,760 --> 00:50:50,239
Speaker 4: created during watching a scary video. When they sniffed them,

851
00:50:50,239 --> 00:50:53,759
Speaker 4: they would show fearful expressions, and those who got disgust

852
00:50:54,000 --> 00:50:58,759
Speaker 4: based shirts made disgusted expressions and you don't. Yeah, it

853
00:50:58,920 --> 00:51:02,560
Speaker 4: also altered how well these people did and perform me

854
00:51:02,640 --> 00:51:06,120
Speaker 4: to a certain task. I know this science sounds like both,

855
00:51:06,440 --> 00:51:10,680
Speaker 4: but you can read the studies and it's it's fascinating.

856
00:51:11,160 --> 00:51:13,560
Speaker 5: Some science is a little more grounded than others. That's

857
00:51:13,560 --> 00:51:17,080
Speaker 5: all I'm saying that that sounds crazy. Disgust or fear

858
00:51:17,440 --> 00:51:21,080
Speaker 5: smells well, you've heard it before.

859
00:51:21,280 --> 00:51:22,759
Speaker 4: You stink of fear.

860
00:51:23,200 --> 00:51:25,080
Speaker 2: Or you smell disgusting.

861
00:51:25,880 --> 00:51:27,640
Speaker 4: Yeah, I guess that'd be the other one.

862
00:51:27,760 --> 00:51:30,480
Speaker 3: Yeah, oh no, No, let's go a little further with that.

863
00:51:30,520 --> 00:51:33,440
Speaker 3: What of the smell of fear? You know, it's something

864
00:51:33,440 --> 00:51:36,040
Speaker 3: that comes up in literature a lot, or like you know,

865
00:51:36,080 --> 00:51:38,719
Speaker 3: we're talking about this vibe thing where it's like I

866
00:51:38,760 --> 00:51:41,600
Speaker 3: can smell your fear, you know, like that's almost like

867
00:51:41,640 --> 00:51:46,360
Speaker 3: a cliche of something that like a a masked maniac

868
00:51:46,440 --> 00:51:48,800
Speaker 3: would say, or like some sort of Bond villain.

869
00:51:48,920 --> 00:51:52,399
Speaker 5: You know, Like I'm perspiring a lot right now as

870
00:51:52,400 --> 00:51:54,600
Speaker 5: we're recording this, because I do every week when I'm

871
00:51:54,680 --> 00:51:58,239
Speaker 5: up here in my whatever, this is my podcasting the

872
00:51:58,280 --> 00:52:02,960
Speaker 5: Matt Hovel, and and I just smelled myself. I don't

873
00:52:02,960 --> 00:52:06,279
Speaker 5: think I would describe either of those fear based or

874
00:52:06,560 --> 00:52:12,680
Speaker 5: podcasting based or whatever. Sense These are my podcast sense

875
00:52:12,960 --> 00:52:13,680
Speaker 5: I guess.

876
00:52:13,480 --> 00:52:17,680
Speaker 4: And Paul and nol and in my own defense, Matt,

877
00:52:17,719 --> 00:52:20,480
Speaker 4: I would hope that hanging out with us either remotely

878
00:52:20,560 --> 00:52:23,319
Speaker 4: doesn't trigger fear and disgust responses.

879
00:52:24,160 --> 00:52:26,680
Speaker 2: I mean some but not all.

880
00:52:26,719 --> 00:52:32,200
Speaker 4: What thank you, fear candor so. Yeah, this is it

881
00:52:32,320 --> 00:52:37,960
Speaker 4: is strange that people who Okay, there's another thing related

882
00:52:38,000 --> 00:52:42,240
Speaker 4: to this. New Scientist magazine found that in a similar study,

883
00:52:42,560 --> 00:52:48,040
Speaker 4: people's amygdala and hypothalamus brain regions associated with fear did

884
00:52:48,080 --> 00:52:52,800
Speaker 4: become more active when people breathed in fear sweat, sweat

885
00:52:52,800 --> 00:52:56,600
Speaker 4: produced by fear versus a control. It's very strange.

886
00:52:56,680 --> 00:52:57,120
Speaker 3: Uh huh.

887
00:52:57,160 --> 00:53:01,640
Speaker 4: That research, by the way, was funded by DARPA. Oh god, yeah,

888
00:53:01,440 --> 00:53:02,959
Speaker 4: nothing to here, folks.

889
00:53:03,000 --> 00:53:04,719
Speaker 2: What are they going to use that for.

890
00:53:06,480 --> 00:53:09,719
Speaker 4: Fear sweat? People? You know they're gonna bomma with fear

891
00:53:09,760 --> 00:53:13,120
Speaker 4: sweat anyway, Jasper and crew aren't trying to do that.

892
00:53:13,880 --> 00:53:17,879
Speaker 4: The Dutch scientists, led by Jasper said, look, we think

893
00:53:17,920 --> 00:53:22,000
Speaker 4: we only communicate through visual and auditory modes, but our senses, smell,

894
00:53:22,239 --> 00:53:28,440
Speaker 4: and these chemo signals help people become quote unquote emotionally synchronized,

895
00:53:29,480 --> 00:53:32,640
Speaker 4: which is very strange, especially because we're just talking about

896
00:53:32,680 --> 00:53:36,640
Speaker 4: fear and disgust. But there's good news. Twenty fifteen, Jasper

897
00:53:36,680 --> 00:53:39,799
Speaker 4: and the crew are right back at it after mathematics, right,

898
00:53:40,160 --> 00:53:44,160
Speaker 4: They have a twenty fifteen study follow up on this,

899
00:53:45,280 --> 00:53:48,400
Speaker 4: and they found that positive emotions can be transmitted the

900
00:53:48,440 --> 00:53:49,000
Speaker 4: same way.

901
00:53:49,760 --> 00:53:52,880
Speaker 3: Ah, that's nice, that's sweet.

902
00:53:53,480 --> 00:53:54,560
Speaker 4: But how far does it go?

903
00:53:54,800 --> 00:53:55,080
Speaker 3: Right?

904
00:53:55,200 --> 00:53:57,560
Speaker 4: No, Matt, does this mean that if you walk in,

905
00:53:57,880 --> 00:54:02,880
Speaker 4: like if you smell affectionate sweat, then you just feel

906
00:54:02,920 --> 00:54:06,120
Speaker 4: a little better like that positive goo? And Ghostbusters too?

907
00:54:06,320 --> 00:54:08,160
Speaker 4: What happens if you smell horny sweat?

908
00:54:08,200 --> 00:54:09,719
Speaker 3: Well, that's what I'm talking about. I mean, isn't it

909
00:54:09,760 --> 00:54:14,719
Speaker 3: all horny sweat? I mean, okay, let me. Isn't the

910
00:54:14,880 --> 00:54:19,960
Speaker 3: idea of smelling something positive? Isn't that always kind of sexual?

911
00:54:20,280 --> 00:54:24,400
Speaker 3: When it comes to like a smell of a person's body, Like,

912
00:54:24,800 --> 00:54:26,840
Speaker 3: you know, I would think it would either smell bad

913
00:54:27,000 --> 00:54:30,239
Speaker 3: because even some people like it when their partner quote

914
00:54:30,320 --> 00:54:33,800
Speaker 3: unquote smells bad because it associated the associate good feelings

915
00:54:33,800 --> 00:54:35,040
Speaker 3: with that or something, you know what I mean. So

916
00:54:35,200 --> 00:54:36,640
Speaker 3: I guess a lot of it has to do with

917
00:54:37,520 --> 00:54:40,680
Speaker 3: your own personal experience with that person and that person

918
00:54:40,760 --> 00:54:43,000
Speaker 3: smell and to your point, Matt, you know our own

919
00:54:43,080 --> 00:54:47,240
Speaker 3: individual smells. But then as far as like positive feelings

920
00:54:47,239 --> 00:54:49,759
Speaker 3: are like you know, that to me usually would have

921
00:54:49,800 --> 00:54:53,440
Speaker 3: to do with sexual feelings because you're, you know, animalistic

922
00:54:53,520 --> 00:54:54,560
Speaker 3: kind of It.

923
00:54:54,480 --> 00:54:57,439
Speaker 5: Comes back to one of the p's guys precedents. Right,

924
00:54:58,040 --> 00:55:00,160
Speaker 5: last time you smelled that and you were in in

925
00:55:00,200 --> 00:55:03,880
Speaker 5: this person's presence, it was postcoital or whatever, or it

926
00:55:04,000 --> 00:55:06,880
Speaker 5: was after or whatever. So I can totally see that

927
00:55:07,040 --> 00:55:10,040
Speaker 5: functioning in that way. But I think I think the

928
00:55:10,120 --> 00:55:11,239
Speaker 5: P is precedence.

929
00:55:12,200 --> 00:55:15,399
Speaker 4: Yes, yes, shout out to PP the man. So this

930
00:55:15,520 --> 00:55:19,319
Speaker 4: means that both positive and negative states can, according to

931
00:55:19,360 --> 00:55:24,040
Speaker 4: studies like this, be unconsciously communicated via smell. You can

932
00:55:24,040 --> 00:55:27,440
Speaker 4: get a vibe and think it's intuition or telepathy, you

933
00:55:27,440 --> 00:55:29,080
Speaker 4: could call it whatever you want, but it might be

934
00:55:29,120 --> 00:55:34,400
Speaker 4: old factory've based. This also means your unconscious mind, because

935
00:55:34,440 --> 00:55:38,279
Speaker 4: you're unconscious, is bad at explaining things to your front

936
00:55:38,320 --> 00:55:42,000
Speaker 4: of house your conscious mind. Your unconscious mind will be

937
00:55:42,040 --> 00:55:44,840
Speaker 4: like this person's great or this is disgusting, and you

938
00:55:44,920 --> 00:55:49,160
Speaker 4: might not be able to articulate consciously. Oh that's why

939
00:55:49,480 --> 00:55:53,560
Speaker 4: I like this person, it's crazy, And I think, Okay,

940
00:55:54,080 --> 00:55:55,640
Speaker 4: drawing it out. I know we're going on here, but

941
00:55:55,760 --> 00:56:01,000
Speaker 4: drawing out further. What if multiple chemo signal all relaying

942
00:56:01,040 --> 00:56:05,600
Speaker 4: the same information inun date a given environment. What if

943
00:56:05,960 --> 00:56:09,719
Speaker 4: the bad or good vibes of a particular place are

944
00:56:10,000 --> 00:56:15,280
Speaker 4: our perceptions of positive or negative chemo signals from other events.

945
00:56:15,520 --> 00:56:18,360
Speaker 4: And then what if it creates a feedback loop. Something

946
00:56:18,400 --> 00:56:20,840
Speaker 4: horrible happens in one place to a lot of people,

947
00:56:21,320 --> 00:56:24,240
Speaker 4: A lot of other people come by afterward, but close

948
00:56:24,320 --> 00:56:28,080
Speaker 4: enough in time to pick up those chemo signals, and

949
00:56:28,160 --> 00:56:32,480
Speaker 4: that sparks their own fear or disgust response, and then

950
00:56:32,520 --> 00:56:36,680
Speaker 4: a third group comes along, rinse and repeat. It's like

951
00:56:36,760 --> 00:56:40,440
Speaker 4: a mother sauce of dark evil emotion.

952
00:56:40,840 --> 00:56:44,160
Speaker 3: Wow, that's very visual. Then I like it. I mean,

953
00:56:44,520 --> 00:56:48,040
Speaker 3: isn't the biggest takeaway here though, just how closely scent

954
00:56:48,200 --> 00:56:51,120
Speaker 3: is tied to memory and how it can just really

955
00:56:51,280 --> 00:56:53,480
Speaker 3: take you back to a place and it can just

956
00:56:53,600 --> 00:56:57,000
Speaker 3: like trigger so many neurons to fire and just kind

957
00:56:57,000 --> 00:57:00,319
Speaker 3: of like take you back to a emotional state. It

958
00:57:00,400 --> 00:57:03,960
Speaker 3: be remembering your mother's cooking, remembering the smell of a

959
00:57:03,960 --> 00:57:07,080
Speaker 3: certain dish. You know, we're more we've been more talking

960
00:57:07,080 --> 00:57:10,160
Speaker 3: about the smell of bodies and people, right, and like

961
00:57:10,200 --> 00:57:13,279
Speaker 3: how that would apply to these intuitions. But if you

962
00:57:13,400 --> 00:57:16,320
Speaker 3: just think about smell and of itself, it's fascinating, you know.

963
00:57:16,360 --> 00:57:18,440
Speaker 3: It could take you right back to a day a

964
00:57:18,520 --> 00:57:21,320
Speaker 3: thing happened in a way more so even than maybe

965
00:57:21,320 --> 00:57:22,360
Speaker 3: a photograph.

966
00:57:21,920 --> 00:57:26,200
Speaker 4: Could, like proost in a taste of things remembered or

967
00:57:26,240 --> 00:57:29,280
Speaker 4: remments of things passed. When he eats the madeline and

968
00:57:30,640 --> 00:57:34,360
Speaker 4: writes a really long novelist result, which is true.

969
00:57:34,760 --> 00:57:36,120
Speaker 3: Yes, it's called the cookie Book.

970
00:57:36,560 --> 00:57:40,200
Speaker 4: Smell is Smell and taste, which are so very closely related,

971
00:57:40,280 --> 00:57:45,760
Speaker 4: are prime memory encoders. That's why if you really want

972
00:57:45,800 --> 00:57:49,960
Speaker 4: to take yourself back into your memory palace, when you're

973
00:57:49,960 --> 00:57:54,120
Speaker 4: trying to think of something, try to imagine any smells

974
00:57:54,440 --> 00:57:56,760
Speaker 4: or taste you can associate with it. That's also why

975
00:57:56,840 --> 00:57:58,080
Speaker 4: people like weird smells.

976
00:57:58,280 --> 00:58:01,040
Speaker 3: Well, it's also a big part of like really high

977
00:58:01,160 --> 00:58:04,560
Speaker 3: end dining and like culinary stuff or like you know, cocktails.

978
00:58:04,760 --> 00:58:07,200
Speaker 3: It's all about evoking a thing. Maybe it's a thing

979
00:58:07,200 --> 00:58:10,400
Speaker 3: that you haven't ever experienced, but you're creating, you're painting

980
00:58:10,400 --> 00:58:12,640
Speaker 3: a picture and bringing someone back to like a time

981
00:58:12,680 --> 00:58:14,480
Speaker 3: and place, and I think, you know, it's the kind

982
00:58:14,520 --> 00:58:17,560
Speaker 3: of buzz terms that like, you know, high end chefs

983
00:58:17,640 --> 00:58:20,959
Speaker 3: use and stuff like that. The idea of things being

984
00:58:21,000 --> 00:58:24,880
Speaker 3: evocative of certain you know, terrain for example, or like

985
00:58:24,960 --> 00:58:25,760
Speaker 3: parts of the world.

986
00:58:26,280 --> 00:58:29,360
Speaker 4: Yeah, we call things this sniff test, you know what

987
00:58:29,440 --> 00:58:32,600
Speaker 4: I mean. Has been circling around this stuff for a while.

988
00:58:33,520 --> 00:58:36,720
Speaker 5: Just to go back to this concept of chemical signals

989
00:58:36,720 --> 00:58:39,760
Speaker 5: being left back to create that feedback loop bent, I'm

990
00:58:39,760 --> 00:58:45,640
Speaker 5: trying to imagine how long those signals would actually stick around, right, because.

991
00:58:45,840 --> 00:58:46,560
Speaker 3: That's just my.

992
00:58:48,120 --> 00:58:51,760
Speaker 5: It's cool, man, I'm just in my head. I'm trying

993
00:58:51,800 --> 00:58:54,880
Speaker 5: to imagine how long that chemical signal actually what the

994
00:58:54,920 --> 00:59:00,800
Speaker 5: half life is, right for somebody's uh sweat after running

995
00:59:01,080 --> 00:59:04,360
Speaker 5: in fear of their life in a particular location and

996
00:59:04,520 --> 00:59:07,960
Speaker 5: sweat drops onto the floor of let's say a cement floor,

997
00:59:08,240 --> 00:59:12,040
Speaker 5: how long does that chemical signal stay there and could

998
00:59:12,080 --> 00:59:13,720
Speaker 5: be active for somebody.

999
00:59:13,600 --> 00:59:15,960
Speaker 4: These Yeah, it could be potent. Like what's the difference

1000
00:59:15,960 --> 00:59:21,000
Speaker 4: between a roller coaster really high stakes escape room versus

1001
00:59:21,440 --> 00:59:27,040
Speaker 4: you know, a tragic structure fire? Right, Like, is there

1002
00:59:27,040 --> 00:59:29,800
Speaker 4: a smell? Is there a chimo signal? Smell of death?

1003
00:59:31,240 --> 00:59:33,360
Speaker 3: If you guys heard of a novel and then a

1004
00:59:33,400 --> 00:59:36,880
Speaker 3: film called Perfume Story, Yes Murder, Yes.

1005
00:59:37,200 --> 00:59:39,600
Speaker 4: Nat Riddle recommended it to me and it was one

1006
00:59:39,640 --> 00:59:41,439
Speaker 4: of my favorite books I read that year.

1007
00:59:41,520 --> 00:59:43,400
Speaker 3: It's real cool. I haven't read the book, but the

1008
00:59:43,400 --> 00:59:46,640
Speaker 3: film is great. The film is directed by Tom Taikwaer,

1009
00:59:46,720 --> 00:59:49,320
Speaker 3: who did Run Lolo Run, which is a movie from

1010
00:59:49,320 --> 00:59:51,760
Speaker 3: my youth that I always really enjoyed. But it's about

1011
00:59:51,960 --> 00:59:54,360
Speaker 3: a young man who is in like the what like France,

1012
00:59:54,480 --> 00:59:56,680
Speaker 3: like in the what fifteen hundred or something like that,

1013
00:59:56,760 --> 01:00:00,360
Speaker 3: who has like a really insane sense of smell. I'm

1014
01:00:00,360 --> 01:00:02,560
Speaker 3: not gonna give anything away, but that movie does a

1015
01:00:02,600 --> 01:00:05,640
Speaker 3: really interesting job of doing of evoking a lot of

1016
01:00:05,640 --> 01:00:08,480
Speaker 3: these things that we're talking about. Again, it's much more

1017
01:00:08,520 --> 01:00:11,040
Speaker 3: of like its own kind of area than just this

1018
01:00:11,160 --> 01:00:14,760
Speaker 3: intuition stuff, and it ultimately goes in a very fascinating

1019
01:00:14,800 --> 01:00:17,520
Speaker 3: and weird direction. So if you're not familiar, I recommend

1020
01:00:17,640 --> 01:00:20,680
Speaker 3: either reading the book or checking out the film.

1021
01:00:20,720 --> 01:00:25,080
Speaker 4: And this idea, then we would have to incorporate a

1022
01:00:25,080 --> 01:00:27,840
Speaker 4: couple of other variables, and it sounds like DARPA is

1023
01:00:27,880 --> 01:00:31,520
Speaker 4: thinking along the same line. Stop scooping us guys, seriously,

1024
01:00:31,800 --> 01:00:34,880
Speaker 4: But the idea would be You know, Matt, you're raising

1025
01:00:35,280 --> 01:00:38,840
Speaker 4: all the great variables. How long could this kind of

1026
01:00:38,880 --> 01:00:40,000
Speaker 4: signal stay potent?

1027
01:00:40,360 --> 01:00:40,560
Speaker 3: Right?

1028
01:00:40,600 --> 01:00:44,760
Speaker 4: What do we know can make someone a good or

1029
01:00:45,120 --> 01:00:48,560
Speaker 4: bad receiver of this stuff?

1030
01:00:48,840 --> 01:00:49,040
Speaker 3: Right?

1031
01:00:49,240 --> 01:00:49,320
Speaker 2: Is?

1032
01:00:49,440 --> 01:00:52,320
Speaker 4: Are some people more sensitive to those signals and that's

1033
01:00:52,400 --> 01:00:56,040
Speaker 4: why they can pick up vibes that they later rationalize

1034
01:00:56,080 --> 01:01:00,800
Speaker 4: through any number of cultural frameworks. Unclear At this point,

1035
01:01:01,160 --> 01:01:04,560
Speaker 4: studies continue. Nothing is one hundred percent conclusive. Yet it

1036
01:01:04,600 --> 01:01:09,440
Speaker 4: does appear that the human mind is partitioned and conspires

1037
01:01:09,520 --> 01:01:14,280
Speaker 4: against part conspires against itself. Think of the subconscious as

1038
01:01:14,320 --> 01:01:17,160
Speaker 4: the kitchen or back of the house, and think of

1039
01:01:16,680 --> 01:01:19,160
Speaker 4: the you that you think of as you as the

1040
01:01:19,240 --> 01:01:21,640
Speaker 4: front of house. You'd always know what's going on in

1041
01:01:21,640 --> 01:01:24,680
Speaker 4: the back, but you need it to happen, right, and

1042
01:01:25,520 --> 01:01:28,600
Speaker 4: from far enough away, this gets confused with all sorts

1043
01:01:28,640 --> 01:01:31,360
Speaker 4: of things. Your mind is conspiring not to hurt you,

1044
01:01:31,480 --> 01:01:35,840
Speaker 4: but to save you or you just smell great.

1045
01:01:36,360 --> 01:01:40,040
Speaker 5: Well, yeah, and sometimes it's also trying to protect you

1046
01:01:40,080 --> 01:01:44,120
Speaker 5: from getting hurt again. Like I know we've experienced this before, right,

1047
01:01:44,240 --> 01:01:47,720
Speaker 5: your brain you've gone through something really troubling, and then

1048
01:01:47,760 --> 01:01:51,320
Speaker 5: anything that is even remotely similar to that, your brain

1049
01:01:51,400 --> 01:01:53,840
Speaker 5: is trying to warn you, and just like you said, Ben,

1050
01:01:53,920 --> 01:01:56,000
Speaker 5: the back of the house is going, hey, hey, this

1051
01:01:56,040 --> 01:01:57,480
Speaker 5: feels a lot like that last time.

1052
01:01:58,240 --> 01:01:59,880
Speaker 2: What do we gotta do? What do we gotta do?

1053
01:02:01,160 --> 01:02:05,000
Speaker 5: I just I'm personally aware of that way too often

1054
01:02:05,000 --> 01:02:05,640
Speaker 5: in my life.

1055
01:02:05,720 --> 01:02:09,400
Speaker 3: That's all absolutely, whether it be something like heartbreak or

1056
01:02:09,920 --> 01:02:12,360
Speaker 3: you know, an injury that you may be sustained, or

1057
01:02:13,120 --> 01:02:15,080
Speaker 3: a time that you were victimized like we were talking

1058
01:02:15,080 --> 01:02:17,240
Speaker 3: about at the top of the show, where you didn't

1059
01:02:17,280 --> 01:02:20,160
Speaker 3: see those cues and now those cues are everywhere screaming

1060
01:02:20,200 --> 01:02:23,479
Speaker 3: at you, and if it's bad enough, hell, it could

1061
01:02:23,520 --> 01:02:26,240
Speaker 3: really ruin your life where you just can't even go outside,

1062
01:02:26,360 --> 01:02:26,520
Speaker 3: you know.

1063
01:02:26,680 --> 01:02:31,640
Speaker 5: I mean, I would say it's super troubling because you it. Again,

1064
01:02:31,680 --> 01:02:34,360
Speaker 5: this is me speaking personally from experience, but it makes

1065
01:02:34,360 --> 01:02:37,720
Speaker 5: it really difficult to judge if the back of the

1066
01:02:37,720 --> 01:02:42,320
Speaker 5: house signals are actually a warning for something real or

1067
01:02:42,400 --> 01:02:44,840
Speaker 5: it's just again, like you said, self preservation.

1068
01:02:45,200 --> 01:02:46,840
Speaker 2: That's like trying to move to the front of the.

1069
01:02:46,800 --> 01:02:51,040
Speaker 4: House, or trauma processing right at one hundred percent, you

1070
01:02:51,080 --> 01:02:54,640
Speaker 4: know what I mean, Like, there are right now countless

1071
01:02:54,640 --> 01:02:59,440
Speaker 4: people in the world who may encounter a sent that

1072
01:02:59,520 --> 01:03:02,640
Speaker 4: other people would the vast majority of humans will find

1073
01:03:02,760 --> 01:03:07,080
Speaker 4: innocuous like shaving cream, barbosol shaving cream, and it sends

1074
01:03:07,120 --> 01:03:12,000
Speaker 4: them into some horrific sense memories, right, and they're back

1075
01:03:12,040 --> 01:03:15,600
Speaker 4: in a terrifying situation. Your mileage may vary, is what

1076
01:03:15,640 --> 01:03:17,960
Speaker 4: we're saying. And that's the tricky thing about trying to

1077
01:03:18,040 --> 01:03:24,280
Speaker 4: quantify and explain vibes. This point, hold your hold your hands,

1078
01:03:24,280 --> 01:03:27,320
Speaker 4: your tentacles, your appendages against your ears, and we're going

1079
01:03:27,400 --> 01:03:32,080
Speaker 4: to transmit the responsibility of figuring out vibes directly to you.

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01:03:32,480 --> 01:03:34,840
Speaker 4: What do you think? We want to read your personal

1081
01:03:34,960 --> 01:03:37,680
Speaker 4: experiences with good or bad vibes. We'd love to hear

1082
01:03:37,680 --> 01:03:42,200
Speaker 4: additional takes or insights into this general phenomenon. And I

1083
01:03:42,280 --> 01:03:46,480
Speaker 4: know we're going to get some amazing spooky stories, so

1084
01:03:46,760 --> 01:03:50,360
Speaker 4: hopefully inspiring nice ones too, right maybe.

1085
01:03:50,040 --> 01:03:52,240
Speaker 3: Oh totally. You can vibe at us or with us

1086
01:03:52,320 --> 01:03:57,240
Speaker 3: hopefully online. We exist the handle conspiracy stuff on Twitter,

1087
01:03:57,960 --> 01:04:03,480
Speaker 3: YouTube and Facebook, Conspiracy stuff show on Instagram and TikTok.

1088
01:04:03,880 --> 01:04:06,920
Speaker 5: Yeah, we can't wait to see how our vibes interact

1089
01:04:07,000 --> 01:04:10,440
Speaker 5: with the vibes that you once vibed. Call one eight

1090
01:04:10,440 --> 01:04:14,600
Speaker 5: three three STDWYTK leave a message. You've got three minutes,

1091
01:04:14,680 --> 01:04:17,480
Speaker 5: give yourself a cool nickname and say whatever you want,

1092
01:04:17,680 --> 01:04:19,920
Speaker 5: just kind of make sure it fits in that three minutes,

1093
01:04:19,960 --> 01:04:21,800
Speaker 5: and do include if we can use your name and

1094
01:04:21,920 --> 01:04:25,320
Speaker 5: message on the air, If you'd like to instead send

1095
01:04:25,360 --> 01:04:28,040
Speaker 5: an email, put anything you want in that email.

1096
01:04:28,120 --> 01:04:31,040
Speaker 2: We'll read it. We read everyone you can reach us.

1097
01:04:31,080 --> 01:04:52,880
Speaker 4: We are conspiracy at iHeartRadio dot com.

1098
01:04:53,080 --> 01:04:55,120
Speaker 5: Stuff they don't want you to know. Is a production

1099
01:04:55,240 --> 01:04:59,760
Speaker 5: of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app,

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01:05:00,000 --> 01:05:02,720
Speaker 5: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.