Speaker 1: The volume. All right, we're gonna have a busy week
Speaker 1: this week at the Volume. I think on Wednesday we
Speaker 1: have Marcus Thompson, who covers the Warriors on the Steph
Speaker 1: Jimmy Butler Connection now, which has been great for the
Speaker 1: league and great for the Warriors. Mike mulva Hill, who
Speaker 1: does research analytics for Fox. I bring him on once
Speaker 1: a year. I'm gonna interview him tomorrow. Today, my buddy,
Speaker 1: former NFL scout John Middlecoff. His podcast is three and out.
Speaker 1: So it was interesting. I got a I got a
Speaker 1: text today from a NFL executive. Apparently the Rams were
Speaker 1: willing to move off Stafford, but they wanted a first
Speaker 1: round pick. They wanted and and by the way, you
Speaker 1: know the Raiders. We're gonna give him one hundred million guaranteed,
Speaker 1: which I still think that'll be the upgrade the Rams make.
Speaker 1: But it just to throw it out there, the Rams
Speaker 1: were willing to make a move if they could have
Speaker 1: two first round picks. What do you make of that?
Speaker 1: I trust my intel. It's somebody pretty tied to the situation.
Speaker 1: What do you make of that?
Speaker 2: So you're saying that they would not have traded into
Speaker 2: the Raiders for let's say a couple seconds.
Speaker 1: Nope, they wanted a first it was, But it's interesting
Speaker 1: they're so close to the super Bowl. It is interesting
Speaker 1: that they would have considered that. Now you know, this
Speaker 1: is somebody that is close to it, so it's interesting.
Speaker 1: It's so hard to get close to the super Bowl, right, Like,
Speaker 1: thank god, the Niners have twelve picks this year, so
Speaker 1: that should fortify them and make give them another run
Speaker 1: because they've got you know, secondary and O line issues.
Speaker 1: But it's even great teams. I mean, Dynasty's close hard,
Speaker 1: like like you're watching Kansas in this year and you're
Speaker 1: like they're struggling to score points for the second year
Speaker 1: in a role. I just it is interesting they would
Speaker 1: have considered moving him for a first Well.
Speaker 2: I think Sean McVeigh was very candid last week when
Speaker 2: he was with his guy Whitworth's podcast, and he was
Speaker 2: open to say, listen, we can't quantify this guy's value
Speaker 2: to us on the field, but we can off the
Speaker 2: field when it comes to our salary cap. And we
Speaker 2: have limitations with a guy who's thirty seven years old. Yeah,
Speaker 2: and I think you used to have a line was
Speaker 2: that you can't there's not a happy, happier or something.
Speaker 3: Yeah, don't try to get happier than happy.
Speaker 2: And I thought this with Matt Stafford. Now, if they
Speaker 2: would have acquiesced and a team would have traded picks
Speaker 2: that would have made the Rams happy, would he have
Speaker 2: given the thumbs up instead of taking the one year
Speaker 2: forty We'll see what the you know in a week,
Speaker 2: what the number actually turns out to be. I think
Speaker 2: that it's not public kind of shows you that, you know,
Speaker 2: the Rams didn't just give him a one hundred and
Speaker 2: ten million dollars, right they And I think Sean McVay
Speaker 2: today on McAfee it's year to year thing. Yeah, right,
Speaker 2: So I would imagine they gave him a little bump
Speaker 2: up and raise, but relative to the rest of the league,
Speaker 2: he's not making what he's making. My take was this,
Speaker 2: I'm not into telling someone to quote unquote take a
Speaker 2: pay cut or what money means to them. But he's
Speaker 2: accumulated before this season even starts, three hundred and sixty
Speaker 2: million dollars, right, So I would imagine if his accountant's
Speaker 2: done pretty well. I know he's got a big family,
Speaker 2: probably nine figures in the bank and working for him
Speaker 2: and investments like Mats Stafford's doing really really well. Not
Speaker 2: only will he never think about it as family, never
Speaker 2: will So it doesn't get any better than Sean mcvaigh,
Speaker 2: does it. Why would he want to leave?
Speaker 1: Well, it's just I saw a story today where Fred
Speaker 1: Kupele said that Brooks Koepka, if he could, would go
Speaker 1: back to the PGA Tour from the Live Golf. And
Speaker 1: again I think I do think generational wealth does make
Speaker 1: you happy for maybe twelve months. You know, it's you.
Speaker 1: You get this kind of money, you set up trusts
Speaker 1: with your kid or you. You know, you buy that
Speaker 1: third home if you're Brooks Kopka in that fourth car,
Speaker 1: and it does give you a sense of independence. But
Speaker 1: ultimately people john not to be Tony Robbins here. People
Speaker 1: like to be part of something, you know, It's not
Speaker 1: just the money. Like the PGA Tour is part of
Speaker 1: something and it's an established something and there's credibility with it.
Speaker 1: That's not a shot at the Live Tour, which I've defended.
Speaker 1: But the Rams are something in Los Angeles, well owned,
Speaker 1: well run, well coached.
Speaker 3: Right now.
Speaker 1: The Raiders are a dream of what could be. The
Speaker 1: Rams are something so I think I've always said this,
Speaker 1: don't chase money, chase good management, and you'll eventually make
Speaker 1: good money. Maybe not great money, but good money.
Speaker 2: Yeah. I think if you use the Live guys as
Speaker 2: an example, you know, Phil got a couple hundred million dollars,
Speaker 2: but he was already worth hundreds of millions of dollars.
Speaker 2: His was more of an f you to the establishment, right,
Speaker 2: d Chambeau, Brooks and DJ. These guys are not in
Speaker 2: NFL players, so they get offered on one hundred and
Speaker 2: eighty million dollars. It is hard that changes their life.
Speaker 2: Matt Stafford making an extra fifty million dollars, I mean
Speaker 2: you're talking after taxes or whatever, he's taken home twenty
Speaker 2: eight thirty million dollars is not gonna change him or
Speaker 2: his family's life at all. But it will impact his
Speaker 2: football life, which, like you said, the Raiders or the Giants,
Speaker 2: which were the teams that look like all in, are
Speaker 2: not gonna win next year. It's just not gonna happen, right,
Speaker 2: I don't even think it's possible with the Raiders, right,
Speaker 2: do you just to compete in that division, even if
Speaker 2: you have a huge upgrade at coach? I think spy
Speaker 2: Tech is a young up and comer, but to think
Speaker 2: twenty twelve and Matt Stafford is living in the moment.
Speaker 2: So to me, the risk of getting the extra money,
Speaker 2: if it would have gone through, would have sent him backwards.
Speaker 2: I think in his football career what we saw forever
Speaker 2: in Detroit, he finally I felt like when he got
Speaker 2: to Sean McVay got to validate the career. This guy
Speaker 2: with all this talent. Honestly, these last couple years, even
Speaker 2: more than the Super Bowl year, it was like Matt Stafford,
Speaker 2: I mean, doesn't get much better than that, And I
Speaker 2: think it would have kind of been sad because it
Speaker 2: would have impacted the Rams. I'm sorry, Jimmy Garoppolo or
Speaker 2: forty one year old Aaron Rodgers. It would have been
Speaker 2: a drop off from Matt Staffords. So I'm just glad
Speaker 2: that that he stayed and it worked out from a
Speaker 2: football standpoint, because this they have a good offseason, a
Speaker 2: couple moves here and there. I mean, who's to say
Speaker 2: that they are, you know, top two or three favored
Speaker 2: in the NFC to be a you know, win the
Speaker 2: Super Bowl or represent the NFC in the Super Bowl.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean I think that game against Philadelphia.
Speaker 3: Says it all.
Speaker 1: They're driving in a snowstorm and they get down to
Speaker 1: the fifteen yard line and they have a rookie center,
Speaker 1: six round pick, and they had finally gotten their offensive
Speaker 1: line right. And by the way, Philadelphia was a better team,
Speaker 1: better overall personnel. They almost snuck out of that puppy
Speaker 1: with a W and so. And I've said this, McVeigh
Speaker 1: doesn't really rebuild. Shanahan feels like he follows up great
Speaker 1: seasons with clunkers. If like Christian McCaffrey's not healthy, McVay
Speaker 1: wins every year. It's just they don't really they reboot.
Speaker 1: They don't necessarily rebuild the I was I think.
Speaker 2: You know, you know one major difference I think the
Speaker 2: two right now is McVeigh has I thought Kyle, because
Speaker 2: of his personality, would be a little more cutthroat. He's
Speaker 2: been emotional when it came to Debo re signing him
Speaker 2: and keeping him last year. With Ayuk McVeigh, it's like
Speaker 2: Jalen Ramsey cut you off Sea Cooper Cup this year,
Speaker 2: we're moving on right this offseason Stafford one year deal.
Speaker 2: That's it. Where it's like the Niners found themselves in
Speaker 2: this weird predicament of they've got emotional with some of
Speaker 2: these players, and McVeigh kind of went to his grandpa's roots.
Speaker 2: Of Walsh, it's like, yeah, we're done here, and he's
Speaker 2: had to tactfully change, you know. With Goff, he was
Speaker 2: a little too outspoken and even he said that like
Speaker 2: I handled that wrong publicly. But this is a business.
Speaker 2: We have to make tough decisions. And I think the
Speaker 2: forty nine ers found themselves in a rut because they
Speaker 2: they tied themselves to every single player instead of you know,
Speaker 2: in football, the guy can be a good player, but
Speaker 2: you gotta pivot. You can't sign them all.
Speaker 1: Well, I mean Philadelphia is in that spot right now.
Speaker 1: Darius Slay is an easy cut. That's an easy one.
Speaker 1: You and I any fan could make that because they
Speaker 1: nailed their two. You know, they're two early picks at
Speaker 1: corner right. The tougher pick is going to be do
Speaker 1: you keep the linebackeror do you keep AJ Brown? And
Speaker 1: I've said this before, I would move off Aj Brown.
Speaker 1: It's in the NBA. When a big guy gets hurt early,
Speaker 1: he gets hurt. Often when a receiver is verbal and
Speaker 1: outspoken early they're outspoken often. Des Bryant didn't get quieter, right,
Speaker 1: so Debo didn't get quieter.
Speaker 3: I would move off.
Speaker 1: AJ Brown because you're so good at running back, O line, quarterback,
Speaker 1: tight end, and Devonte Smith. I think that's an easy one.
Speaker 1: But but you don't want to think like a fan.
Speaker 1: But I think people will look at AJ Brown and go,
Speaker 1: he's so good. It's wide receiver you can find. Really,
Speaker 1: Pukainaku is a fifth rounder. I mean there's one or
Speaker 1: two positions in the NFL cornerback, wide receiver, running back.
Speaker 1: It's amazing how much talent there is in the fourth round. Like,
Speaker 1: there's all sorts of examples. So like I look at
Speaker 1: Philadelphia and Howie Roseman, who, by the way, you know
Speaker 1: the organization. He said after the Super Bowl, this is
Speaker 1: gonna look different. Not everybody's gonna love it. So to me,
Speaker 1: that was a little bit of a caution. Guys were
Speaker 1: moving off some popular talented guys. You don't say that
Speaker 1: if you just have to cut Darius Sleigh. That's an
Speaker 1: easy one that nobody's losing sleep on.
Speaker 2: Yeah, to me, the AJ Brown one would only be
Speaker 2: if they feel that relationship that Brandon Graham kind of
Speaker 2: let the cat out of the bag and then they
Speaker 2: tried to walk it back. It's like, come on, but
Speaker 2: you know, winning cures all in their relationship. I mean,
Speaker 2: he had a touchdown in the playoffs. He is, when healthy,
Speaker 2: one of the best, what four or five six wide
Speaker 2: receivers in the league. I think the only way they
Speaker 2: would do something like that would be to clear up
Speaker 2: some movement if they could get Miles Garrett, and by
Speaker 2: all accounts, they are gonna be one of the lead
Speaker 2: dogs in those moves. So I think the thing was
Speaker 2: Zach Vaughn. This is what makes Howie and I would
Speaker 2: just say, consistent football teams maintain it or not. It's like, yeah,
Speaker 2: he's a good guy, he had an incredible season, but
Speaker 2: are we gonna break the bank for a linebacker? And
Speaker 2: his history would say the Eagles and good teams do not.
Speaker 2: That's right, right. Let someone else give you four years,
Speaker 2: eighty million dollars and forty five million dollars guaranteed. And
Speaker 2: this is why you keep drafting and why you keep
Speaker 2: investing it. And listen, part of being a good NFL
Speaker 2: team takes some luck. Sometimes you got a guy one year,
Speaker 2: four million dollars, first Team All Pro that's why you
Speaker 2: pay Vic Fangio five six million dollars. You know that's
Speaker 2: last year. He looked at this guy, special teamer, kind
Speaker 2: of outside linebacker. Let's make him a middle linebacker under
Speaker 2: my tutelage, Patrick Willison, Navarro Bowman, let's roll. So if
Speaker 2: I was Howie, I'd go, well, my return on investment
Speaker 2: is not the player, it's the coach. Why couldn't I
Speaker 2: do this again? Why can't we find a guy in
Speaker 2: the draft, maybe on the second day, second or third round.
Speaker 2: Let fans you a mold them like a piece of clay.
Speaker 2: He did it with Navarro Bowman. Why couldn't he That's
Speaker 2: the best case scenario. But no one in a million
Speaker 2: years in the NFL would it, said Zach Bond, first
Speaker 2: Team All Pro middle linebacker. No chance. And that's that
Speaker 2: you know football more than all these other sports. The
Speaker 2: power of these coordinators, if you get it right, I mean,
Speaker 2: look at Spagnola, look at some of the offensive coordinators
Speaker 2: over the years, can change your franchise, right because it's
Speaker 2: you're not paying them player money, you're paying them four
Speaker 2: five six million dollars.
Speaker 1: It's amazing to me how fans really really struggle and
Speaker 1: and like to me, aj Brown and Bonner the linebacker
Speaker 1: are pretty easy moves because I'm not going to disrupt
Speaker 1: that O line probably for the next three years.
Speaker 3: I'm I mean, I'm that old line.
Speaker 1: Maybe in two to three years Lane Johnson retires, but
Speaker 1: the core of that organization to me is now Saquon
Speaker 1: Jalen Hurts and that old line. Everything else. To me,
Speaker 1: I'll move. But you're finding this with Detroit. It's really
Speaker 1: I mean, think how great people thought Dak was. I mean,
Speaker 1: people really thought Dak was a top five quarterback when
Speaker 1: the Cowboys O line five years ago. Those guys were
Speaker 1: all closer to their prime. Now we look up and
Speaker 1: go Jesus that Dak's the most overpaid guy in the
Speaker 1: NFL by a long shot. So you know, I just
Speaker 1: think when I look at like when Tyreek Hill, Andy
Speaker 1: Reid moved off him, I never forget the day it happened.
Speaker 1: I was like, yeah, of course you move off him,
Speaker 1: like you got look at the Pick State guy at
Speaker 1: the time. I'm like, first round, second round, second round.
Speaker 1: I'm like, Bret Fiach is going to hit on at.
Speaker 2: Least half of these.
Speaker 3: Of course you make the move. He's a deep threat.
Speaker 1: Those guys don't mean much in December and January when
Speaker 1: it's freezing and windy. So I mean the AJ Brown
Speaker 1: one is easy. I'll go back to it. When a
Speaker 1: receiver Deebo is a prime example, when they start getting
Speaker 1: outspoken early that doesn't go backwards and you're and by
Speaker 1: the way, you won with him, you got to a
Speaker 1: couple of Super Bowls. Like I also think there's there
Speaker 1: at some point in a salary cap. Sport players become
Speaker 1: commodities and there's just you have to move them. They're
Speaker 1: chess pieces and you say, well, where's the humanity? Come on,
Speaker 1: we all know the game here. This is the way
Speaker 1: it is with pro sports. By the way, in college now,
Speaker 1: kids leave their program all the time. They make promises,
Speaker 1: they commit, they leave. We all know this is how
Speaker 1: the game works.
Speaker 2: Well, the one thing with AJ two, if that would
Speaker 2: be something they wanted to do, he still has a
Speaker 2: lot of value. I mean, he's still one of the
Speaker 2: best players in the league. I mean you're not just
Speaker 2: kicking him away like Debo for a fifth round pick.
Speaker 2: It might bring you back like a second and a third. Yeah, right,
Speaker 2: I don't know if you could get I mean they
Speaker 2: traded a first form, could they get a late first.
Speaker 2: I mean, some of those teams don't have the most
Speaker 2: cap room, but you definitely probably get a second and
Speaker 2: a third. Yep, you know, depends. I think there's always
Speaker 2: other moves. He's not just getting rid of a player
Speaker 2: to get rid of a player. You know that Milton Williams,
Speaker 2: the defensive tackle that really came on, they would love
Speaker 2: to keep. But guys like that are He's gonna get
Speaker 2: twenty million dollars a year, That's right. So I think
Speaker 2: they're always thinking. The one thing the Eagles have been
Speaker 2: like since before I got there and ever since long
Speaker 2: after I left, they will go big game hunting. I'm
Speaker 2: telling you, if Miles Garrett this is the Browns can
Speaker 2: say all they want, we're not moving on and listen.
Speaker 2: I would understand if you're a well run, competitive team,
Speaker 2: But given the Deshaun's situation, this is the time to
Speaker 2: just blow the thing up. And to me, he would
Speaker 2: net you multiple first round picks. So if that if
Speaker 2: he's available, I think the Eagles would be front and
Speaker 2: center with the package of things that they would put
Speaker 2: in front of them to the land that player and
Speaker 2: their owner and how you manipulate the salary cap is
Speaker 2: you pay these insane bonus right right, it's everyone plays
Speaker 2: under the same umbrella of the cap, but I can
Speaker 2: cut you a bigger signing bonus, then that's where guys
Speaker 2: sign up for.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And for the record, fans tend to think all
Speaker 1: these owners are even No, they're not. Stan Cronk, Jeffrey Lowie.
Speaker 1: The Denver Broncos can pay more upfront than a majority
Speaker 1: of the teams. I mean, the Chicago Bears are just
Speaker 1: not an organization. I mean the packers have to get
Speaker 1: everything a boot approved. The Bears don't have that kind
Speaker 1: of money historically. I saw something today that came out
Speaker 1: and I have a friend who has a business and
Speaker 1: the business changed. It was not his fault, and just
Speaker 1: the culture of his business changed three or four different
Speaker 1: ways post COVID, and he's now stuck with sort of
Speaker 1: a business that's not It lost about thirty percent of
Speaker 1: its legs. And my wife and I had this discussion
Speaker 1: the other day about something that you know, I own
Speaker 1: a podcast company and now it's more of a we
Speaker 1: call it more of a media company because we had
Speaker 1: to grow and if you don't grow, you'll die, you'll
Speaker 1: get eaten alive. And I was watching these stories about
Speaker 1: Shador Sanders has come off, you know, as arrogant to
Speaker 1: some people during interviews, and I was thinking about this.
Speaker 1: Here's what's changed to last two classes. Quarterbacks are coming
Speaker 1: into the NFL now as millionaires. And go back to
Speaker 1: when you were twenty one years old or twenty two
Speaker 1: years old, if you had like seven million dollars in
Speaker 1: the bank, I would have been cocky, like cocky err
Speaker 1: And you know, there was always this thing Bill Parcells
Speaker 1: years ago, John said, don't draft celebrity quarterbacks. Well that's over.
Speaker 1: I mean, these guys, I'm sorry. If you play at
Speaker 1: Ohio State, you're a celebrity quarterback. If you play it
Speaker 1: you know under Lincoln Riley or at Georgia, you're a
Speaker 1: celebrity quarterback. I mean, Carson Beck is average and he's
Speaker 1: a celebrity quarterback. And the other thing, though, is am
Speaker 1: I wrong? You're a former scout that nil kids come
Speaker 1: now and they're not starving, and they have a nice car,
Speaker 1: and they may have two million in the bank. And
Speaker 1: if they think the organization that's interviewing them is a
Speaker 1: bottom tier organization, and they think to themselves. I don't
Speaker 1: want to play for the blank. I don't want to
Speaker 1: play for this team or that team or Cleveland. You know,
Speaker 1: I'm going to come in with little I'm not saying
Speaker 1: it's right, but I'm saying the world changes, and I
Speaker 1: think nil for quarterbacks. These kids are coming into interviews
Speaker 1: now with a little more leverage and with a stronger
Speaker 1: opinion on themselves.
Speaker 2: Yeah. I've been talking to my buddies that are on
Speaker 2: the road the last couple of years, and they will
Speaker 2: tell you that, you know, at the Big Power for top,
Speaker 2: I don't know, thirty forty programs, the parking lots look
Speaker 2: like the NFL parking lots. For the college kids like
Speaker 2: you go to the University of Michigan or Ohio State
Speaker 2: or Penn State or Alabama or LSU, I would say
Speaker 2: there are seventy or eighty brand new cars and from
Speaker 2: everything I mean, Carson Beck just had a Lamborghini stolen,
Speaker 2: and like you said, he's average. I think, you know,
Speaker 2: part of this is talking to friends. They like it
Speaker 2: because these guys are easy to evaluate. How they handled
Speaker 2: they made let's say one point eight million dollars over
Speaker 2: the last couple of years, and their work ethic, their accountability,
Speaker 2: none of it changed. You know, Shador is much more
Speaker 2: like a Peyton Manning or a Steph Curry, Like he's
Speaker 2: a rich kid. I mean he grew up. He's Deon Sanders' son,
Speaker 2: so he's he's been around the bright lights from day one,
Speaker 2: right since the beginning. I think the questions people have
Speaker 2: with Shadors. There was a famous line of Dion like
Speaker 2: a I think the New York Giants wanted to interview
Speaker 2: him at the combine and he asked him, like where
Speaker 2: you draft and they said seventh. He's like, I'm not
Speaker 2: wasting my time. But Dean could back it up because
Speaker 2: he was one of the best prospects we've ever seen.
Speaker 2: He became one of the great players we've ever seen.
Speaker 2: These people look at you, you know, when they're interviewing Shador,
Speaker 2: they don't look at him like he's Andrew Luck or
Speaker 2: Caleb Williams, like he's not the best prospect they've ever seen.
Speaker 2: So I think sometimes they look for a little humility
Speaker 2: in that moment, and uh, I don't know. I think
Speaker 2: Chador is going to be a fascinating case. I will
Speaker 2: say this watching him as a player, like sometimes you
Speaker 2: get the kind of that cockiness, you like, this guy's
Speaker 2: kind of a fake fraud, not that tough like he
Speaker 2: is tough, like you watch him play, Oh god getting
Speaker 2: back up. So to me here there's an old school
Speaker 2: nature to his game that he gets from his dad.
Speaker 2: I think they would question his arms not great relative
Speaker 2: to like elite prospects. Yeah, and even he admitted like
Speaker 2: I got my mom's jeans as an athlete, not my dad.
Speaker 2: So he's not an up rechelant athlete. And yeah, I
Speaker 2: just think he's gonna be fascinating. Some people think he
Speaker 2: could fall out of the top ten. Who knows. I mean,
Speaker 2: there's not a quarterback. None of these guys are guaranteed.
Speaker 2: Everyone thinks the Giants are gonna take one of these
Speaker 2: court what if they just signed Sam Darnold, Like they're
Speaker 2: not a get locked to sign any of these or
Speaker 2: you know, draft any of these guys. So I think
Speaker 2: cam Ward who has a much more I would say
Speaker 2: gifted skill set, you know, just bigger arms, yeah, more
Speaker 2: you just quicker athlete. You're also compared to the crew
Speaker 2: you're in. Right, So when I'm interviewing people, guy come in,
Speaker 2: Guy come out, Guy comes in, guy comes out, So
Speaker 2: it's just kind of I'm living in the moment and
Speaker 2: when you come off a little bit different, you know,
Speaker 2: some guys are just rubbed the wrong way.
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Speaker 1: And now for our next segment, Whiskey Business brought to
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Speaker 1: and discover a legend in a bottle today. So there
Speaker 1: was a moment this weekend. Jerry Jones canceled his interview
Speaker 1: at the NFL Combine and the Cowboys have had a
Speaker 1: rough couple of years. I mean, they gave away a
Speaker 1: fourth round pick for Trey Lance. He couldn't beat out
Speaker 1: Cooper Rush. I mean, if Kyle Shanahan Cammick a quarterback accurate,
Speaker 1: he's not accurate. They give up a fourth round pick
Speaker 1: for Jonathan Mingo, the wide receiver five catches for the Cowboys,
Speaker 1: and again both those moves, you.
Speaker 3: Know, we all kind of went.
Speaker 1: Meanwhile, the Commanders gave up a fifth round pick for
Speaker 1: Deebo Samuel. And it's really interesting as I look at Washington,
Speaker 1: not just because of the result, but between Adam Peters,
Speaker 1: Cliff dan Quinn, that move for Debo Jaden Daniels, and
Speaker 1: I don't think, like a lot of times there's recency bias.
Speaker 1: I honestly believe for the next decade, Washington is going
Speaker 1: to be one of the three best NFC teams. And
Speaker 1: I think what's happening with the Cowboys now, they're becoming
Speaker 1: the old Al Davis Raiders. They feel like they are honestly,
Speaker 1: they are lost at sea. I mean they are giving
Speaker 1: away draft picks now. I mean people don't understand they
Speaker 1: may re work Dax contract. It's a ninety million dollar
Speaker 1: cap hit that is over double Josh Allen. They can
Speaker 1: rework it all they want to. What fifty eight I
Speaker 1: said this a year ago. I said they're going to
Speaker 1: start a decade of regression. It has happened so fast
Speaker 1: in this league. Shit goes south so fast. What did
Speaker 1: you make of the Debo only giving up a fifth
Speaker 1: round pick?
Speaker 2: Well, to me, you just look at the free agent
Speaker 2: class and you go, well, we don't want to get
Speaker 2: in any long because the whole thing was Washington has
Speaker 2: all this cap space, they need some more weapons for Jayden,
Speaker 2: and you look around you go, well, NFL free agency
Speaker 2: is the most overrated thing because high end guys never
Speaker 2: make it, and the guys that do you have to
Speaker 2: pay an absolute premium to get. Remember a couple of
Speaker 2: years ago, Christian Kirk got like four years ninety million dollars.
Speaker 2: He actually turned out to be okay. But you have
Speaker 2: to pay, you know, elite money for those guys. So
Speaker 2: I can get Debo on a year to year contract.
Speaker 2: I have all this space. All I have to give
Speaker 2: up is a fifth round pick. In the nil era,
Speaker 2: fifth six to seventh round picks feel like diminished and
Speaker 2: watered down. I also think you get a guy who's
Speaker 2: a little motivated. People are calling him fat, you know,
Speaker 2: a little like Lucas style. Adam Peters knows the guy well.
Speaker 2: Cliff Kingsbury. You know, when you think back to Arizona,
Speaker 2: they used a lot of gadget players. Rondell Moore, the
Speaker 2: Purdue guy, different type player, but guys you can get
Speaker 2: behind the line of scrimmage, you know. I actually think
Speaker 2: it's a good scheme fit. He has excelled when they've
Speaker 2: had a route running wide receiver on the opposite side.
Speaker 2: Terry McLaurin, Brandon Nyuk to me, if you get a
Speaker 2: motivated Debo, it's a no brainer. We have all this
Speaker 2: cap space. I give him seventeen All I have to
Speaker 2: give up is a fifth round pick, and if you're
Speaker 2: the forty nine ers, you aren't gonna pay him seventeen
Speaker 2: million dollars here in a couple of weeks. So it's
Speaker 2: I think it's kind of a win win. The Niners
Speaker 2: are moving off, they don't have to eat any of
Speaker 2: the money. They trade to a team where the general
Speaker 2: manager was around not only drafting him, but his good
Speaker 2: and bad moments, so knows his personality because the other thing,
Speaker 2: I mean, you've been saying it for ever. Whyer See,
Speaker 2: it's gonna be a little moodie. They got a little
Speaker 2: like Hollywood actor to him. They need to be you
Speaker 2: just you have to know their personality. It's very rare
Speaker 2: to get like a Larry Fitzgerald. Most guys are more debo.
Speaker 2: And Adam Peters knows this player really well. And I
Speaker 2: think the Jerry Jones thing. How often in any business
Speaker 2: that if the eighty year old patriarch of the operation
Speaker 2: is around and his name's not Warren Buffett and Berkshire Hathaway,
Speaker 2: is it a healthy place to be when the guy's hovering.
Speaker 2: He's made an ungodly amount of money, he does not
Speaker 2: need to be there, and he's extra hands on. So Jerry,
Speaker 2: you could argue, Jerry's ego feels like it's only grown.
Speaker 2: As they've quote unquote struggled over the last decade relative
Speaker 2: to some of their big seasons, and they've underwhelmed in
Speaker 2: the playoffs, it doesn't feel like Jerry's gone. You know what,
Speaker 2: I'm gonna let Steven and Will McKay and my coach
Speaker 2: take a bigger role. I'm just I'm just gonna be
Speaker 2: more of a figurehead. He always doubles down cutting the check.
Speaker 2: My name's on that bad boy. I'm involved. I'm a
Speaker 2: football guy, and he's not wrong. I mean, he played
Speaker 2: college football, he's been around his whole life. But unlike
Speaker 2: a lot of football guys, Jerry is addicted to business. Yeah,
Speaker 2: and the business of his team is marketing and all that.
Speaker 2: And it's just there's just a lot going on with
Speaker 2: the Cowboys, and you know, Micah Parsons. You talk about
Speaker 2: Dak's capit. If they do give Mike a new deal
Speaker 2: and don't trade them, what's that deal? One hundred and
Speaker 2: fifty million dollars guaranteed for quarterback contract?
Speaker 3: Rudal?
Speaker 2: No. I mean, so they're in three guys at a
Speaker 2: combine what like five hundred million dollars?
Speaker 3: Crazy?
Speaker 1: I mean, I just you can't have three different players
Speaker 1: top of the market when only one of them, Ce
Speaker 1: d Lamb is top five at his position in the NFL.
Speaker 1: It's like, I mean, it's I had a very good
Speaker 1: year last year, predicting, very bad year, picking individual games,
Speaker 1: very good year, you know, picking teams. I got Washington
Speaker 1: and Denver and some of the upstarts this year. I
Speaker 1: think New England is going to be a surprise playoff team.
Speaker 1: I think the Jets are going to go sideways a
Speaker 1: little bit. They don't have a quarterback. I think Miami
Speaker 1: I kind of think they've topped out a little bit.
Speaker 1: All the motion and the tricks and smoking mirrors. I
Speaker 1: think there's limitations there. I think New England's going to
Speaker 1: be in play And my other one is I think
Speaker 1: Dallas is potentially a five or six win team with
Speaker 1: Brian Schottenheimer. I mean, I have the good news is
Speaker 1: it's a good quarterback draft. I have to go out
Speaker 1: and get one if I was Dallas this year. In fact,
Speaker 1: I think I heard Stephen Jones say this. I had
Speaker 1: another person tell me who I respect, keep your eye
Speaker 1: on Kyle McCord out of Syracuse in the late second round.
Speaker 1: Do not be shocked if the Dallas Cowboys do go
Speaker 1: after Kyle McCord of Syracuse. Now they're not late second.
Speaker 1: I think Dallas made trade down in the second round
Speaker 1: to get a mid second pick. I am hearing more
Speaker 1: and more, and I went and watched him about a
Speaker 1: month ago. Kyle McCord throws a really nice ball and
Speaker 1: I thought about this if he had stayed, because Will
Speaker 1: Howard completed sixty one percent of his throws at Kansas State.
Speaker 1: He goes to Ohio State and complete seventy three percent
Speaker 1: of his throws. If you don't think that matters. If
Speaker 1: if Kyle McCord stays at Ohio State with Jeremiah Smith
Speaker 1: and Ibuka and the two NFL running backs and Kyle McCord,
Speaker 1: who's a much better pro prospect than Will Howard, it's
Speaker 1: not even. It's not Will Howard is like late fifth sixth.
Speaker 1: In fact, somebody today texts me in the NFL he
Speaker 1: thinks after the combine he's a seventh round pick.
Speaker 2: I had a bad combine. Oh bad.
Speaker 3: I think.
Speaker 1: I think Kyle McCord is going to end up being
Speaker 1: as good as any quarterback in that draft.
Speaker 3: This is my hottest take is that he'll he'll be
Speaker 3: the guy.
Speaker 2: Tell me I'm wrong, Well, I think yeah. I watched
Speaker 2: a couple of Syracuse games this season and went, this
Speaker 2: is the guy that Ryan Day because let's face it,
Speaker 2: they blamed him for the Michigan loss two years ago
Speaker 2: and he got kicked out, and so I listen, I
Speaker 2: believed him. I was like Hey, this guy, if he
Speaker 2: can't make it there, maybe they're right. And then you
Speaker 2: watch him at Syracuse, who had their best season in
Speaker 2: a while. He was spinning. He's got a big arms
Speaker 2: hight spiral. I think him and Jackson Dart because there
Speaker 2: are so many question marks with the top two guys
Speaker 2: with Cam and Chador. If you're talking about two guys
Speaker 2: you have to draft in the top I don't know
Speaker 2: one guy in the top five, the other guy in
Speaker 2: the top twelve. You can get these two guys. Historically,
Speaker 2: McCord is not going to be a first round pick,
Speaker 2: but even Jackson Dart would also have been a second
Speaker 2: round pick. You could find the Derek Carrs, the Jimmy Garoppolos,
Speaker 2: these guys that can start for you, and if you
Speaker 2: do a good job building your team, you can win
Speaker 2: with I think the problem for the Cowboys is if
Speaker 2: you look at the Dak Era, they really only had
Speaker 2: to deal with the Eagles, right, he just kind of
Speaker 2: went back and forth over the last ten years, right
Speaker 2: with Doug Peterson and then Sirianni Era. Well, now it's
Speaker 2: not just the Eagles, it's Washington too, So you add
Speaker 2: another team because Washington up until last year was a joke.
Speaker 2: The Giants have been terrible for what a decade plus,
Speaker 2: So now the Cowboys don't just have to deal with
Speaker 2: the Eagles, they have to deal with Washington. I mean,
Speaker 2: that's that's a huge problem. And even if they do
Speaker 2: draft mccor Jackson Dart whoever, let's say they draft a
Speaker 2: second round pick that does nothing for them in twenty
Speaker 2: twenty five and honestly does nothing for them the next
Speaker 2: couple of years. That guys, they're kind of just hoping
Speaker 2: to get their Jordan love, which is good big picture
Speaker 2: team building, but it does not help them trying to
Speaker 2: beat the Eagles or Washington in Week seven when you're
Speaker 2: three and three and your season kind of feels like
Speaker 2: it's teetering, right, Yeah, the you know, it.
Speaker 3: Was interesting.
Speaker 1: I had this take that Sam Donald so overachieved for
Speaker 1: the Vikings that Kevin O'Connell and their young gm feel
Speaker 1: like they owe Sam Donald. They owe him a solid
Speaker 1: and everybody likes Sam impossible not to like if you
Speaker 1: meet him, and so they have said publicly, we're not
Speaker 1: sure what we're gonna do. We we we may resign him,
Speaker 1: and everybody knows Kevin O'Connell, the tall Sean McVay is
Speaker 1: a really good coach. Now I'm just I'm theorizing this,
Speaker 1: but Kevin O'Connell knows what he's gonna do at quarterback.
Speaker 1: He's gonna use JJ McCarthy. But they're doing a solid.
Speaker 1: This is sort of like what McVeigh did to Baker Mayfield.
Speaker 1: He told everybody, God, Baker was great. I've never seen
Speaker 1: a guy work this hard. He was unbelievable. You do
Speaker 1: a guy a solid who comes in, you want to
Speaker 1: help him, you want a good reputation that I think
Speaker 1: the Vikings know what they're gonna do, but they feel
Speaker 1: like Sam is a better.
Speaker 3: Guy than Aaron Rodgers.
Speaker 1: And if those are the two best quarterbacks on the market,
Speaker 1: they're gonna they're gonna say nice things about Sam to
Speaker 1: get him the better deal. Because a lot of these teams,
Speaker 1: like Vegas, it's gonna come down potentially to Sam and Aaron.
Speaker 1: So my theory is, you know, Aaron's made a few
Speaker 1: enemies in his career, you know, and he's got his
Speaker 1: reputation that the Vikings are just doing this to get
Speaker 1: Sam the better deal on the market.
Speaker 2: Yeah, man, I do think last year kind of spoke
Speaker 2: for itself. He did play really well. Yes, I mean
Speaker 2: you and I coming on week in week out. He
Speaker 2: just was that an MVP performance. I mean that throw
Speaker 2: and that play he made against Seattle. Near the end
Speaker 2: of the season, he thought like could he actually win
Speaker 2: the MVP, And then those last two games I would say,
Speaker 2: you know, kind of clouded his fantastic season. The hard
Speaker 2: part is there were so much on the line in
Speaker 2: those two games. He was horrendous. I think the difference
Speaker 2: of the two is one I would struggle with Aaron
Speaker 2: for any amount of money over like ten twelve million
Speaker 2: dollars because you're getting a guy that doesn't want to
Speaker 2: get hit. Yeah, it's naturally kind of moody with an
Speaker 2: offensive coordinator, just a unique cat Sam. His value kind
Speaker 2: of is Baker Mayfield Like, it's not a super cheap deal.
Speaker 2: So you're talking I would say eighty to one hundred,
Speaker 2: but it is You're getting to bed with him for
Speaker 2: a couple of seasons, even if it's the Daniel Jones contract,
Speaker 2: that's a multiple year contract, so that there becomes pressure
Speaker 2: on that. I think, you know, the Giants are kind
Speaker 2: of in win now mode, right, you know, doesn't make
Speaker 2: more sense. Let's just go with Aaron Rodgers and maybe
Speaker 2: you know, veteran quarterback who knows what we do. If
Speaker 2: we get with Sam Darnold, it doesn't work. All of
Speaker 2: a sudden, we're in a weird spot. I think, Sam,
Speaker 2: like all these quarterbacks, you're you're gonna be much better
Speaker 2: with a good with Sean McVay, with Kevin O'Connell, with
Speaker 2: Kyle Shanahan. You get with some of these coaches like
Speaker 2: you're just not. Let me look at Ebra Fluce and
Speaker 2: Caleb in that situation. Now we'll find out how good
Speaker 2: Caleb actually is. But he had no chance last year.
Speaker 1: Well, this is funny about the draft. I was talking
Speaker 1: to somebody in the league about Jalen Milroe, and you know,
Speaker 1: this person likes Jalen's story and his parents and the kid.
Speaker 1: He thinks he's a much better Anthony Richardson. But he
Speaker 1: did say to me, he said, but if he goes
Speaker 1: to a defensive coach and it's a first time offensive coordinator,
Speaker 1: he goes Jayleen Milroll is going to.
Speaker 3: Look really bad. He said.
Speaker 1: Now if he goes to you know, he goes to
Speaker 1: a there's an offensive sensibility or he goes to a
Speaker 1: you know, an offensive head coach where he doesn't have
Speaker 1: to start. He said, the kid is physically he is
Speaker 1: a better athlete than Anthony Richardson, Like he just will
Speaker 1: run people over or run by them. And he said
Speaker 1: he throws a gorgeous deep ball. Anthony Richardson doesn't throw
Speaker 1: a gorgeous anything. But to your point, with Darnold and Gardner,
Speaker 1: Minshew with Shane Steichen almost made the playoffs in Las Vegas,
Speaker 1: it was a mess. And I think that's how I
Speaker 1: feel about this year's quarterback class. I really do, John,
Speaker 1: Where do they land now? I think cam Ward is
Speaker 1: talented enough to overcome a little nonsense and you get
Speaker 1: one of those guys in ye where they're just kind
Speaker 1: of good enough to make it work to some degree.
Speaker 1: But I think every other guy in this drafting, Jackson Dart,
Speaker 1: Jalen Milroe, Kyle mclory, shud Or Sanders, they get poor coaching,
Speaker 1: they get a battle line.
Speaker 3: It could be ugly fast.
Speaker 2: You know. Someone asked me, like, what's the difference between
Speaker 2: Jalen Milroe and Anthony Richardson. I said, well, Anthony Richindson
Speaker 2: had a lot of unknown Jalen's the problem with Jalen
Speaker 2: is we've seen two years at Alabama as a starter.
Speaker 2: If he only had nine games for Alabama, he would
Speaker 2: be a lock first round pick. We can mold them,
Speaker 2: we can figure it out. His sample size was too big,
Speaker 2: the thing Anthony Richardson had going for him, small sample size,
Speaker 2: and then the bigger it got Trey Lance one year starting.
Speaker 2: If he had started three years, would people have been
Speaker 2: off the scent? And that's where some of these guys
Speaker 2: that have been three or four year starters. You got
Speaker 2: Will Campbell. Everyone's picking him apart. The guy's been a
Speaker 2: four year starter at LSU, had left at he might
Speaker 2: end up being a guard, but I'll promise you he's
Speaker 2: gonna start in the NFL for a decade. Right, he
Speaker 2: might be a guard, but he's going to start in
Speaker 2: the NFL for a decade. And I understand where he
Speaker 2: pushes back. Everyone's bitching about my arms. Show me where
Speaker 2: I'm getting beat because of my own But sometimes Logan
Speaker 2: Mankins was a left tackle at President State. They moved
Speaker 2: him a guard pro bowler. The thing with quarterbacks, the
Speaker 2: accuracy thing does rattle people, and we have recent examples
Speaker 2: Trey Lance, Anthony Richardson who were listen. Sometimes you swing
Speaker 2: for the fences, Aaron judge five hundred feet. Sometimes you
Speaker 2: strike out, and you know, Anthey Richinson, let's face it
Speaker 2: looks like a whiff. YEA. Their GM comes out and says,
Speaker 2: we got to bring in competition. If you're saying that
Speaker 2: year three about the guy you drafted in the top five,
Speaker 2: it's a problem. Ye trade. Lance was traded before whatever,
Speaker 2: before year three started. So I think those two guys
Speaker 2: serve as Jalen and where people talk themselves in on
Speaker 2: Anthey Richardon and Chris Ballard wasn't alone. People really like
Speaker 2: the kid. They that's you know Shador. These interviews people
Speaker 2: said Anthony richards blew them away. We love them, And
Speaker 2: I think Jalen Milro same type deal. Look at look
Speaker 2: at the similar parallels of all the sabing quarterbacks. They
Speaker 2: handle the room pretty well, right they walk in. You
Speaker 2: go back to AJ mccaron, to the dude calling ESPN games, McElroy,
Speaker 2: all the way through the group of the last five
Speaker 2: six years. They all handle the room well. The problem
Speaker 2: is that only goes so far. Can you complete the
Speaker 2: eighteen yard out route right or you're gonna hit the
Speaker 2: trainer on the sideline. And I think Jalen Milroe, like
Speaker 2: Anthony Richinson, like I've learned this because I lean the
Speaker 2: physical traits, the accuracy thing, it's just a non start.
Speaker 2: The Josh Allen thing is a historic outlier, and I
Speaker 2: think people kind of chase that. It's like, I don't
Speaker 2: know if we're ever seeing that again in his story
Speaker 2: right bouncing around begging people to sign it. It's just
Speaker 2: he's just in his own little box. Yeah, you know so,
Speaker 2: And I think everyone's kind of chasing that, like that's
Speaker 2: not gonna happen again.
Speaker 1: I want to talk about Jimmy Johnson. He retired on
Speaker 1: my show today and he's got he made three Hall
Speaker 1: of Fames, and I said it on the air as
Speaker 1: Jimmy and I had great conversations about, you know, stuff
Speaker 1: behind the scenes. Ninety percent of it didn't make the air,
Speaker 1: and it was just good. Ninety percent of it was
Speaker 1: just filler and information to me that I can then
Speaker 1: pass on to the audience. But some stuff Jimmy told
Speaker 1: me I would never pass on. And that's that's part
Speaker 1: of what you and I do, Like we have sources,
Speaker 1: we have friends, I protect them. Jimmy told me some
Speaker 1: stories that are so outrageously funny that you could never repeat.
Speaker 1: But you know, thinking about Jimmy Johnson, one of the
Speaker 1: cool things about sports is it gets smarter over time.
Speaker 1: And like, for instance, in basketball, now we shoot too
Speaker 1: many threes, but for years, you know, somebody finally said,
Speaker 1: you know, the math is way better. If you shoot
Speaker 1: threes over twos, the math works out better. And you know,
Speaker 1: it's like in baseball, you know what strikeouts, they're not
Speaker 1: the end of the world. Ground balls are so just
Speaker 1: you know, we have more efficiency, we have more numbers,
Speaker 1: more math. You know, for years, the strikeout in baseball
Speaker 1: was like, ah, the inning ender. No, the inning ender
Speaker 1: is the ground ball. And you look at the NFL
Speaker 1: as I don't think people some of our audience knows this,
Speaker 1: but people did not make trades before Jimmy Johnson made
Speaker 1: that herschel Walker deal. It was just so rare. Now
Speaker 1: they make more trades by far than the NBA. And
Speaker 1: do you take me back, because you obviously are younger
Speaker 1: than me, I can remember the herschel Walker trade, and
Speaker 1: again I may be dating myself. I can remember the
Speaker 1: reaction people. I mean people celebrated the Minnesota Vikings like
Speaker 1: they stole herschel Walker, And in the end, it is
Speaker 1: the seminal moment that built the dynasty in Dallas. Tell
Speaker 1: me your thoughts about that moment. Jimmy Johnson, what do
Speaker 1: you remember him for?
Speaker 2: Well, you know, growing up in northern California, the forty
Speaker 2: nine Ers might as well have been the Yankee. I
Speaker 2: was born in eighty four, so by the time I
Speaker 2: was coming into my own as a sports fan ninety one,
Speaker 2: ninety two, ninety three, I have vivid memories of watching
Speaker 2: the NFC championship games that the forty nine Ers could
Speaker 2: not win, and my father, like most forty nine Ers fans,
Speaker 2: were not big Steve Young guys because Joe Montana might
Speaker 2: as well have been Michael Jordan meets Jesus, and it
Speaker 2: was not going well, and I just remember those teams
Speaker 2: were so good. But in twenty twenty, the Super Bowl
Speaker 2: was held in Miami and it was the forty nine
Speaker 2: Ers in the Chiefs and Fox had it, and I
Speaker 2: went to do a three and out podcast. You were there.
Speaker 2: I was hung out in Miami for three or four days,
Speaker 2: and I went to the Chiefs Hotel and I was
Speaker 2: with some of the guys with the Chiefs and they said,
Speaker 2: you'll never believe this. But yesterday Andy, because the Fox
Speaker 2: guys came to practice, he had Jimmy talk to the team.
Speaker 2: And most of these guys don't know Jimmy as a coach,
Speaker 2: let alone like he was once upon a time, like
Speaker 2: the best coach in the NFL and one of the
Speaker 2: great like Pete Carroll right of the eighties and nineties
Speaker 2: winning in college anna the pros and said, and these guys,
Speaker 2: I mean, the guy telling me the story had been
Speaker 2: in the NFL for twenty plus years, still on the
Speaker 2: staff to this day, said he had never seen a
Speaker 2: pre game. It wasn't in pregames, but you know it's
Speaker 2: like Tuesday or Wednesday. Everyone the hair on the back
Speaker 2: of their neck stood up. Like He's like, Jimmy doesn't
Speaker 2: still got it. He could coach this team, lead us
Speaker 2: out to the super Bowl, and he said, the place
Speaker 2: went nuts. And it's just one of those personalities. And listen,
Speaker 2: Jimmy's not the biggest guy. He always had. I mean,
Speaker 2: I remember him as the head and shoulders guy when
Speaker 2: when I was a kid on the commercials with his hair.
Speaker 2: But he said, of all the people that coach read
Speaker 2: and all the people that he's just seen come in
Speaker 2: from the outside and give a speech, it wasn't even close.
Speaker 2: That was the best thing that he's ever seen. And
Speaker 2: I think some guys and this is like, I'm glad
Speaker 2: that Sean McVeagh didn't go to Amazon. Like the NFL
Speaker 2: benefited because Jimmy played a big role on Fox and
Speaker 2: Fox getting the NFL changed the course of the NFL
Speaker 2: business big picture, but they did lose I mean a
Speaker 2: pretty special coach. I mean, it's cool to see Pete
Speaker 2: Carroll come back, like these people belong and you talk,
Speaker 2: you're around a guy like Jimmy, even those who were retired.
Speaker 2: How often does he talk to Andy Reid, Bill Belichick?
Speaker 2: Like those are his people? Yes, you know, he has
Speaker 2: more in common with them than he does you know,
Speaker 2: media people, even though he'll go down as one of
Speaker 2: the great television personalities with a sport in the history
Speaker 2: of the league. But yeah, I mean, I just remember
Speaker 2: being this having described that that kind of speeds that
Speaker 2: he gave to the team. Andy's no dummy, you know,
Speaker 2: He's like, hey, Jimmy, you know, and he said it
Speaker 2: was fantastic. But I remember Jimmy and those Cowboys beating
Speaker 2: the forty nine I remember they beat him in a rainstorm,
Speaker 2: I think the second straight NFC Championship game. And as
Speaker 2: a kid, a lot of people thought that Steve Young.
Speaker 2: I mean, can you imagine the story in twenty twenty five,
Speaker 2: the version of getting rid of Joe Montana for Steve
Speaker 2: Young and then constantly losing to this other team. So
Speaker 2: it was a really big deal when I was a
Speaker 2: kid of the Cowboys beating the forty nine ers.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it was.
Speaker 1: It was funny talking to Jimmy about the Miami days,
Speaker 1: Miami Hurricanes and you know, the convicts against the Catholics,
Speaker 1: and he was so proud about how many kids had
Speaker 1: made like you know, the honor roll, and how he
Speaker 1: was like, you know, people just thought we were a
Speaker 1: bunch of dummies. He goes, He goes, we had a
Speaker 1: lot of good students on that team. He goes, you know,
Speaker 1: it was Miami. He goes, there were kids that like
Speaker 1: to go out and chop it up, and he goes,
Speaker 1: that was part of it. He goes, But he goes,
Speaker 1: you don't he goes, cause I had to ask him
Speaker 1: me one time, I may have been on the air
Speaker 1: or off and I said, Like, if I said, what
Speaker 1: is the one quality of a great team and asked
Speaker 1: Jimmy this on more than one occasion, he always gave
Speaker 1: the same answer. Intelligence. He goes, players have to be
Speaker 1: willing to learn, learn quickly, and then develop. And he goes,
Speaker 1: Guys that don't do their work, guys that just are
Speaker 1: slow learners. He goes, it doesn't work. Great teams are
Speaker 1: intelligent teams, and he goes because he goes, especially in
Speaker 1: the NFL, the margins are so tight. This stuff all
Speaker 1: comes down to situational football. Kansas City was not as
Speaker 1: good as Philadelphia, but the last two years the Chiefs
Speaker 1: have been so good situationally. That's just smart dudes who
Speaker 1: have been around the Joe Tooneys and the Kelsey's and
Speaker 1: the Mahomes. Those dudes have been around in big games.
Speaker 1: So I mean, I think you brought you talked about
Speaker 1: this the Kansas City Chiefs when they were miking them,
Speaker 1: those players were like, you know, when they won that
Speaker 1: Super Bowl post Tyreek Hiller like we just want we
Speaker 1: barely even know the defense. Like the following year, it's like,
Speaker 1: you know, so it's One of the things Jimmy Owa's
Speaker 1: preached was you've got to have player. You cannot develop
Speaker 1: players if they're not willing learners, if they're not willing
Speaker 1: to put the time in with the playbook, with the schemes.
Speaker 1: You need fast thinkers. And so he just wasn't about
Speaker 1: getting players. I mean, he told me, those Miami teams,
Speaker 1: he go, Colin, we struggled to get elite offensive linemen.
Speaker 3: You know, he goes.
Speaker 1: You know, places like New Jersey would have four or
Speaker 1: five of those guys. He goes, we struggled to convince
Speaker 1: them to come down to Miami. They're like, well, is
Speaker 1: that a good school, And he's like, yes, he said. So,
Speaker 1: you know, people forget that those Miami teams weren't stacked.
Speaker 1: We weren't getting five star guys in the offensive line.
Speaker 1: He goes, But our guys developed. And it's just I
Speaker 1: got to tell you. If you're in your twenties, you
Speaker 1: do not remember Jimmy Johnson's Miami Hurricanes, but they were.
Speaker 1: You had to watch them when they played the big
Speaker 1: games Florida, Florida State, Notre Dame, Penn State. They had
Speaker 1: they were the run in Rebels with Tark with Stacy
Speaker 1: Augman and Larry Johnson. They were like outlaws in their
Speaker 1: own sense, and it was unbelievable television.
Speaker 2: I'd even say the Cowboys team he built, you know,
Speaker 2: I mean we argue this a lot with could these
Speaker 2: players play now or play before? I mean that offensive
Speaker 2: line that just road graded for Emmon Smith with Troy,
Speaker 2: with Michael Irvin, that offense was just I mean with
Speaker 2: North Turner, who was really like a Sean McVay Kyle
Speaker 2: Shanahan thirty years ago as an offensive coordinator. I mean
Speaker 2: Troy Aikman still squares by him, but building that team,
Speaker 2: I mean that move he made to then accumulate. And
Speaker 2: this is back in the day, Like we don't have
Speaker 2: this really anymore because there's a clear line of like
Speaker 2: coach and GM, they kind of work together. These gms
Speaker 2: are also famous, Like he was the GM, right, he
Speaker 2: was the coach the GM, And that's what pissed Jerry off,
Speaker 2: which I would say is one of the more famous
Speaker 2: front office breakups in at least in my lifetime, Jimmy
Speaker 2: Johnson and the forty nine ers kicking out Jim Harbaugh. Essentially,
Speaker 2: it felt like those two huge personalities that you just
Speaker 2: don't win. Like you get rid of a coach, people
Speaker 2: are they will side with the coach who's a championship
Speaker 2: level guy every single time. But I just remember those
Speaker 2: Cowboys teams being so And the other thing is I
Speaker 2: think people like big personalities or party guys. I mean
Speaker 2: those Cowboy teams had they were run like a cocaine
Speaker 2: ring with strippers and stuff. But even Dion, you know,
Speaker 2: a huge personality. I remember asking Bobby April, who was
Speaker 2: a special teams coordinator with the Atlanta Falcons in the
Speaker 2: late eighties early nineties, about Dion. He said, listen, Deane
Speaker 2: shooting music videos. He's doing all this stuff. He was
Speaker 2: always the guy sitting in the front of you know,
Speaker 2: our meeting. He learned anything I'd give him, he would
Speaker 2: pick up like that. And on the practice field, I've
Speaker 2: never seen a guy work harder. So I think sometimes
Speaker 2: these old school guys because like, oh Michael Jordan was
Speaker 2: drinking all the time, we'll get on the practice court
Speaker 2: with him. Oh Michael Irvin hasn't slept, Lawrence Taylor hasn't
Speaker 2: slept well. Then practice starts like they are. There is
Speaker 2: no rep off, there's no low management with these guys.
Speaker 2: Different breed, you know, different time, different breed. But when
Speaker 2: I think of those teams, I just think of like
Speaker 2: you could put those teams right now in twenty twenty
Speaker 2: five and they would wreck shop.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and there are you know, it's funny Lawrence Taylor, A,
Speaker 1: Michael Jordan, and Michael Irvin. I've always I've known guys,
Speaker 1: not many, but I've known a handful of guys that
Speaker 1: they're just wired different. They got different genetics, and they
Speaker 1: can play thirty six holes of golf in South Carolina
Speaker 1: and August and go out and party till midnight and
Speaker 1: they're up at six and they can do it like
Speaker 1: four straight days.
Speaker 3: I do it once. I'm wrecked.
Speaker 2: I mean, some people need less sleep. You know, some
Speaker 2: people do not need three or four you know, Kobe
Speaker 2: Bryant was notorious, Michael Jordan, Tiger Woods, Andy Reid, Like,
Speaker 2: these guys aren't sleeping eight nine out. They don't need it.
Speaker 2: I need eight hours to function more in mind to work.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: By the way, I was talking about this, We'll wrap
Speaker 1: with this and again we have Marcus Thompson, who covers
Speaker 1: the Warriors later this week. Michael Mulvahill, who does research
Speaker 1: and analytics for Fox. Will be on later this week.
Speaker 1: He's I bring him on once a year. He's got
Speaker 1: great insight and every time I bring him on, people
Speaker 1: just love Mike Moulhill.
Speaker 3: So he'll be on later this week.
Speaker 2: I'd say there's not a human alive beside in the
Speaker 2: Curry family that knows Steph better and probably as a
Speaker 2: closer relationship with Steph Curry than Marcos tops.
Speaker 1: Yeah, he's mad, a great storyteller, such a good dude.
Speaker 1: So as you know, I'm moving some of my operations
Speaker 1: to Chicago, and you know what I've found really funny
Speaker 1: And listen, I don't my wife was not a fan
Speaker 1: of LA, but we both.
Speaker 3: I like LA.
Speaker 1: I love California. I love Californians. I'm gonna move to Chicago.
Speaker 1: Don't love the weather, but whatever. But you know about
Speaker 1: the traffic, the taxes, the Yeah, I mean, listen, it's
Speaker 1: it's a big city. It's I compare it to Rome.
Speaker 1: It's just it's a lot, it's spread out, it's it
Speaker 1: could take you two hours to drive across town. Yeah,
Speaker 1: the taxes are expensive. I lived in Connecticut. Taxes weren't
Speaker 1: cheap there. I like California I like people. There's a
Speaker 1: lot I like about it. But we have a place
Speaker 1: in the birds in Chicago. But it was funny. You know,
Speaker 1: people will come up, but why are you moving here?
Speaker 1: You know, I'll just say, yeah, you know, my wife's
Speaker 1: got family here. I found myself this weekend defending California
Speaker 1: and I said this to somebody. I said, listen, you
Speaker 1: ever been on Google? Ever watched Netflix? You ever watch YouTube?
Speaker 1: You ever used docu sign? And I started naming these companies.
Speaker 1: I'm like, they're all California founded and based, and there's
Speaker 1: a lot of smart people that built those and despite
Speaker 1: the taxes and regulations, they still built. Like the six
Speaker 1: of the ten biggest companies in America are California based.
Speaker 1: And it's funny you live in California and there's so
Speaker 1: much I love about it. I do think it's outrageously expensive,
Speaker 1: and I do think there's a lot of waste, and
Speaker 1: the politics can get very wacky and Sacramento. But I
Speaker 1: thought of you when I defended him. After I thought,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna ask middle Coff. You moved out of California
Speaker 1: and you're happy getting married soon, You're very very happy.
Speaker 1: How do you look at leaving California. Do you miss
Speaker 1: it ever?
Speaker 2: No, I think it's the best move I've ever made
Speaker 2: without hesitation in my adult life. I would say there
Speaker 2: is a big difference between southern California and northern California. Yeah,
Speaker 2: I mean you can get a lot more sun than
Speaker 2: we got up there, and the prices are the same
Speaker 2: and depend on where it could be. Palo Alto in
Speaker 2: some of these areas Danville, I mean are most expensive
Speaker 2: areas in like the world. Yeah, so you factor in
Speaker 2: a lot of that. I do wonder big picture with California. Listen.
Speaker 2: I got a brother who has a farming operation, like
Speaker 2: he's gonna He's thirty five years old. He'll be there
Speaker 2: the rest of his life. My mother lives there, my
Speaker 2: friends and family live there. I go back there to
Speaker 2: see these people. I do wonder Silicon Valley, which I
Speaker 2: would say change the state financially, put it in a
Speaker 2: different stratugy here those companies that you go back to,
Speaker 2: you know, Apple and the companies in the eighties and
Speaker 2: nineties that have taken off. And listen, I have a
Speaker 2: lot of friends. When I graduated from cal it was
Speaker 2: seven eight range. A lot of my friends went to
Speaker 2: work in northern California for startup companies that turn or
Speaker 2: early iterations of the facebooks right or you know Oracle
Speaker 2: as it was really taken off in these companies and
Speaker 2: they have financially the windfall that they've had at through
Speaker 2: their thirties is you know, like being a backup point guard.
Speaker 2: I mean, some of these it's been incredible. Are these
Speaker 2: companies in twenty twenty five? You know the version of
Speaker 2: Facebook or whoever going to start in Silicon Valley give
Speaker 2: it how expensive it is to run your business there
Speaker 2: and get people to come. And I just wonder, I mean,
Speaker 2: you see what's happening in Florida, in Texas, in Vegas
Speaker 2: and here in Arizona that it is so much more
Speaker 2: lucrative if I was going to start a company the
Speaker 2: version of what these have become. And that's the mindset
Speaker 2: of all these people in Silicon Valley. It is so
Speaker 2: much cheaper just to do it in Austin or in
Speaker 2: Miami or And I just wonder, big pick sure the
Speaker 2: Silicon Valley shift. I mean, you've seen it with Hollywood,
Speaker 2: right that the movies, at least to my knowledge and
Speaker 2: reading articles, are not shot there like they once were
Speaker 2: right because it's so much cheaper. I have a buddy
Speaker 2: that listens to this podcast that is the lead in
Speaker 2: suits La. They shot that thing in Canada.
Speaker 3: Yeah right, No, No, I just.
Speaker 2: Wonder, now there's historically there's always shifts back and forth. Yeah,
Speaker 2: and you and I've spent time. You spent more time.
Speaker 2: But I live in Philly for a couple of years.
Speaker 2: I do feel like the wiring of those people. It
Speaker 2: goes back and forth too. But they will draw a
Speaker 2: hard line in the sand. Yeah, in California. I don't
Speaker 2: know if you could ever get the complete pullback. I
Speaker 2: don't know it's gonna be. It's gonna be a huge,
Speaker 2: I don't want to say experiment, but it's gonna be
Speaker 2: fascinating to watch over the next ten years. Can they
Speaker 2: shift back because they're gonna have to to keep these coming?
Speaker 2: They have the Apples, the Facebook's and oracles that they are.
Speaker 2: They're there, But what about the new versions of these
Speaker 2: companies over the next twenty thirty to fifty years. Will
Speaker 2: they start and grow and come to fruition under their watch?
Speaker 2: Or they have being in Vegas or in Dallas, Texas,
Speaker 2: or in Glendale, Arizona, I don't know.
Speaker 1: Yeah, no, I think it's it's a good point. We
Speaker 1: we thought five years ago that all these companies like
Speaker 1: Apple and Meta were far left, and to your point,
Speaker 1: they drew a line in the sand, and those guys
Speaker 1: were all sitting down with Elon Musk, you know, Inauguration Day,
Speaker 1: like front and center making a statement. So I think
Speaker 1: with big business there's always a line in the sand.
Speaker 3: People.
Speaker 1: I've said this before. You know, Bob Iger privately of
Speaker 1: Disney is more conservative than he is publicly because he
Speaker 1: runs an entertainment company and you kind of have to
Speaker 1: lean left publicly, but privately you have to do business.
Speaker 1: You know, you have you know, there's decisions you have
Speaker 1: to make that you're not going to announce.
Speaker 3: But you know, it's just interesting.
Speaker 1: As I was, I was talking about California and and
Speaker 1: and you know my life. My wife wasn't a big
Speaker 1: fan of Los Angeles, my son wasn't. It's okay, I mean,
Speaker 1: it's just a big city. But it is interesting when
Speaker 1: when you say you're from California to people outside of California, man,
Speaker 1: they have strong opinions. It's almost like the NBA, like
Speaker 1: people don't even have to watch the NBA. They're going
Speaker 1: to give their opinion of the NBA. And that's how
Speaker 1: I feel when I'm in the Midwest. How California is.
Speaker 1: People have been to it twice once It's Disneyland when
Speaker 1: they were eight, and they got a big opinion on it.
Speaker 2: Obviously, a lot of people in my life, I would say,
Speaker 2: live in the greater San Francisco area, yeah, and have
Speaker 2: for a long period of time and live good lives.
Speaker 2: I do think they would be shocked to hear the
Speaker 2: common theme the way humans talk about San Francisco. I
Speaker 2: would say San Francisco is a more polarizing conversation in Chicago,
Speaker 2: in Kansas City and than Los Angeles'. Yeah, yeah, right.
Speaker 2: I would say San Francisco right now is probably viewed
Speaker 2: by the average dude as the most toxic place in
Speaker 2: America in terms of just polarizing of crazy listeness.
Speaker 1: I went to a Super Bowl in San Francisco. I
Speaker 1: stayed at the Mark Hotel, which is like on top
Speaker 1: of a hill. And again, I think people listen to me.
Speaker 1: I'm kind of a moderate independent. I can lean left
Speaker 1: on social stuff right on fiscal stuff. I didn't walk
Speaker 1: around much at night, and this was is that eight
Speaker 1: years ago? Like I remember being there seventeen. Yeah, I
Speaker 1: remember being there and thinking this is not the same place,
Speaker 1: at least not in this neighborhood.
Speaker 3: And I went to the.
Speaker 1: Same restaurant twice, the same piano bar twice. And no,
Speaker 1: I'm I mean, listen, I'm I'm not somebody that just
Speaker 1: I'm not somebody that listens to a lot of conservative
Speaker 1: radio and I'm not here with the talking points. But
Speaker 1: it's been really fascinating for me to you know, moving
Speaker 1: some operation to Chicago and listening to people have an
Speaker 1: opinion on California, and you know a lot of times
Speaker 1: I just I just consume it. I'm fascinated, but it
Speaker 1: is Boy, do people have an opinion.
Speaker 2: Man. I think the other thing people would be shocked
Speaker 2: about is the amount of money that your average employer,
Speaker 2: as some of these places at Facebook and Oracle that
Speaker 2: are my age right late thirties, early forties make I mean,
Speaker 2: it's the money there. And this is why listen, a
Speaker 2: lot of my friends don't love definitely the politics there,
Speaker 2: and you know, they have young children in the school system.
Speaker 2: Things can be really wacky, but it's really hard to
Speaker 2: find eight hundred thousand dollars jobs. You know, when you're
Speaker 2: a state school graduate, you know at these places that
Speaker 2: you've been at for a long time, and you know
Speaker 2: these the companies. You know, for my generation that graduated
Speaker 2: into the financial crisis, the boom of Silicon Valley changed
Speaker 2: a lot of people in my world's life. Now I'm
Speaker 2: working in football making nothing as they are just taking
Speaker 2: off like a rocket ship. And one thing I've heard
Speaker 2: over the last I would say, six months, is they
Speaker 2: are laying people off constantly. They go, what do you there?
Speaker 2: They're doing the elim So what do you do? You know,
Speaker 2: because you start, you lay off ten employees, you could
Speaker 2: be you know, if they average compensation seven hundred and
Speaker 2: fifty thousand dollars, they can add up pretty fast. Yeah.
Speaker 2: And you know, as they got so big that you
Speaker 2: weren't paying at ten over the last couple of years,
Speaker 2: I think and listen, Elon takes a lot of shit.
Speaker 2: When he bought Twitter, he basically did, what's everyone doing here?
Speaker 2: This place isn't making any money? And secretly, I think
Speaker 2: everyone else in Silicon Valley kind of was able to
Speaker 2: fall suit, like six months later, much quieter.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I got a friend that works at Meta. Two
Speaker 1: friends that work at Meta, and over the last three years,
Speaker 1: Zuckerberg has gone into hyper efficiency mode, like he is.
Speaker 1: Just every meeting that's what they discuss. So yeah, I
Speaker 1: think people look at elon, but I think it's a
Speaker 1: trend in that part of that sector and that part
Speaker 1: of the country is we got big, broad, sloppy and
Speaker 1: layers of bureaucracy. We're getting out of it. And so
Speaker 1: it's anyway, it's just it's our last topic today. John
Speaker 1: Middlikoff three announced the podcast as a former Californian who
Speaker 1: kicked to the curb and is now golfing in December
Speaker 1: and Scottsdale and loving life.
Speaker 2: Okay, take it easy, all.
Speaker 3: Right, buddy.
Speaker 2: The volume