1
00:00:01,760 --> 00:00:06,559
Speaker 1: Cool Zone Media, Hello, and welcome to cool People do

2
00:00:06,640 --> 00:00:10,920
Speaker 1: cool stuff. You're weekly reminder that sometimes when there's bad stuff,

3
00:00:11,000 --> 00:00:13,360
Speaker 1: there's people trying to do good stuff, even if it

4
00:00:13,400 --> 00:00:16,240
Speaker 1: goes really badly sometimes like today's story. But we're going

5
00:00:16,280 --> 00:00:19,440
Speaker 1: to get to that, but first, I'm your host, Margaret

6
00:00:19,480 --> 00:00:21,840
Speaker 1: Kiljoy and my guest is Carl.

7
00:00:22,239 --> 00:00:24,600
Speaker 2: Hi. Carl, it's so cool to be back. Every time

8
00:00:24,640 --> 00:00:26,840
Speaker 2: I get a chance to be on anything on Cool

9
00:00:26,880 --> 00:00:28,920
Speaker 2: Zone Media, I'm super excited. When I saw the invite,

10
00:00:28,960 --> 00:00:31,520
Speaker 2: I was like absolutely. People ask me like, what's the topic.

11
00:00:31,560 --> 00:00:33,200
Speaker 2: I'm like, I don't know, but I'm there, so here

12
00:00:33,240 --> 00:00:34,800
Speaker 2: I am. Yeah.

13
00:00:34,880 --> 00:00:38,000
Speaker 1: Famously, I like to not tell my guests what we're

14
00:00:38,040 --> 00:00:41,040
Speaker 1: going to talk about, and that's an example. You've a

15
00:00:41,120 --> 00:00:43,280
Speaker 1: listener probably know what we're going to talk about because

16
00:00:43,280 --> 00:00:47,440
Speaker 1: it's in the title and sharene our producer Hi, Sharen Hi,

17
00:00:47,840 --> 00:00:51,280
Speaker 1: I'm here as well, also, Carl, as someone who books

18
00:00:51,280 --> 00:00:55,160
Speaker 1: the guests, your response time and enthusiasm is always appreciated.

19
00:00:55,440 --> 00:00:58,000
Speaker 3: It's very It makes my job so easy, so thank

20
00:00:58,040 --> 00:00:58,360
Speaker 3: you for that.

21
00:00:58,960 --> 00:01:01,080
Speaker 2: It lets you know that I'm jitimate about what I'm saying.

22
00:01:01,120 --> 00:01:02,160
Speaker 3: Yeah, for sure.

23
00:01:02,600 --> 00:01:05,640
Speaker 1: For anyone who doesn't know Carl and his work. Carl

24
00:01:05,800 --> 00:01:08,640
Speaker 1: runs in Range TV and it's really good. Do you

25
00:01:08,720 --> 00:01:09,959
Speaker 1: want to explain what that means?

26
00:01:10,800 --> 00:01:13,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, thank you, I appreciate that. So in Range TV

27
00:01:13,959 --> 00:01:17,760
Speaker 2: is ostensibly a firearms related media project, but I actually

28
00:01:17,760 --> 00:01:20,240
Speaker 2: wrote this little paragraph to like describe my channel better

29
00:01:20,240 --> 00:01:22,360
Speaker 2: because it's hard to describe kind of So I'm like

30
00:01:22,400 --> 00:01:25,680
Speaker 2: I considered a media community building project. But one of

31
00:01:25,720 --> 00:01:28,360
Speaker 2: the things that differentiates us from like a lot of

32
00:01:28,400 --> 00:01:30,360
Speaker 2: the other firearms stuff in the world is that we're

33
00:01:30,360 --> 00:01:34,920
Speaker 2: actively anti racist, pro human liberation and staunchly for LGBTQ

34
00:01:35,040 --> 00:01:36,760
Speaker 2: plus rights, and that kind of puts us in a

35
00:01:36,760 --> 00:01:39,960
Speaker 2: weird space in firearms land. So it's been an interesting walk.

36
00:01:40,600 --> 00:01:43,000
Speaker 1: Yeah. One of the things that's come up over and

37
00:01:43,040 --> 00:01:47,040
Speaker 1: over again on this show is how groups of people

38
00:01:47,240 --> 00:01:50,280
Speaker 1: are disarmed before they're murdered in mass.

39
00:01:50,560 --> 00:01:53,120
Speaker 2: So yeah, and that's the challenge I have with a

40
00:01:53,160 --> 00:01:56,160
Speaker 2: lot of people that are like not necessarily firearms people already,

41
00:01:56,200 --> 00:01:59,400
Speaker 2: especially people that are like left of center. Whatever that means,

42
00:01:59,880 --> 00:02:02,680
Speaker 2: is that we don't talk about the realities of that

43
00:02:02,680 --> 00:02:05,000
Speaker 2: that firearms have been used so many times to oppress,

44
00:02:05,080 --> 00:02:07,360
Speaker 2: but there's a lot of times where fire has been

45
00:02:07,440 --> 00:02:09,920
Speaker 2: used to liberate and we leave that out of the conversation.

46
00:02:10,480 --> 00:02:13,240
Speaker 1: And it's complicated and kind of not what we're going

47
00:02:13,280 --> 00:02:15,840
Speaker 1: to talk about today, but it's tangentially related to what

48
00:02:15,919 --> 00:02:18,280
Speaker 1: we're going to talk about today, because well, first of

49
00:02:18,360 --> 00:02:21,240
Speaker 1: do the rest of the introductions, the auto engineering is

50
00:02:21,280 --> 00:02:23,120
Speaker 1: done by Daniel. Everyone's just to say hi to Daniel

51
00:02:23,200 --> 00:02:26,680
Speaker 1: Hi Danel Hi, Daniel, I said hi.

52
00:02:26,760 --> 00:02:29,400
Speaker 3: Sorry, I was muted. Sorry Daniel Hi Danel.

53
00:02:29,560 --> 00:02:33,120
Speaker 1: Okay, that's right, okay, And our theme music is written

54
00:02:33,160 --> 00:02:36,680
Speaker 1: for ud by Unwoman. This week, we're going to talk

55
00:02:36,720 --> 00:02:40,800
Speaker 1: about one of the most famous and misunderstood direct actions

56
00:02:40,800 --> 00:02:44,600
Speaker 1: in history. And I want to start with a thought experiment.

57
00:02:45,520 --> 00:02:47,679
Speaker 1: Let's think about John Brown. This is not a John

58
00:02:47,720 --> 00:02:51,440
Speaker 1: Brown episode. The pop history version of John Brown is

59
00:02:51,480 --> 00:02:53,079
Speaker 1: that he's like a bit of a zealot who goes

60
00:02:53,120 --> 00:02:55,640
Speaker 1: to war against slavery without the support of anyone and

61
00:02:55,680 --> 00:02:56,200
Speaker 1: he loses.

62
00:02:56,360 --> 00:02:56,560
Speaker 2: Right.

63
00:02:57,680 --> 00:03:00,480
Speaker 1: The actual historical version of him is that he's a

64
00:03:00,520 --> 00:03:03,000
Speaker 1: bit of a zealot who went to war against slavery

65
00:03:03,040 --> 00:03:05,480
Speaker 1: with the backing of a multi racial and cross class

66
00:03:05,480 --> 00:03:10,800
Speaker 1: alliance of abolitionists. He individually lost has lost his life famously.

67
00:03:11,400 --> 00:03:14,960
Speaker 1: The media spectacle around his trial is more or less

68
00:03:15,000 --> 00:03:18,639
Speaker 1: what sparked the South to attempt secession and therefore sparked

69
00:03:18,639 --> 00:03:21,639
Speaker 1: the Civil War and therefore brought the end of legal

70
00:03:21,760 --> 00:03:24,519
Speaker 1: chattel slavery in one of the most powerful slave empires

71
00:03:24,560 --> 00:03:29,360
Speaker 1: the world has ever known. So John Brown died and

72
00:03:29,400 --> 00:03:34,280
Speaker 1: then won. It happens that way sometimes, right, Okay, my

73
00:03:34,320 --> 00:03:36,920
Speaker 1: thought experiment, and it's I don't want to linger on

74
00:03:36,960 --> 00:03:39,840
Speaker 1: it too long, but imagine for a moment if the

75
00:03:39,880 --> 00:03:43,520
Speaker 1: South had won the Civil War, Imagine how history would

76
00:03:43,560 --> 00:03:48,400
Speaker 1: look at John Brown. Probably my argument is that a

77
00:03:48,400 --> 00:03:50,240
Speaker 1: lot of people would accuse him of either being an

78
00:03:50,360 --> 00:03:53,760
Speaker 1: unwitting friend of the South, or they might accuse him

79
00:03:53,760 --> 00:03:55,800
Speaker 1: of having been an agent of the South doing like

80
00:03:55,840 --> 00:03:59,960
Speaker 1: a false flag attack, since, after all, his actions spurred

81
00:04:00,080 --> 00:04:03,080
Speaker 1: the growth of the Confederacy. They absolutely did. His actions

82
00:04:03,160 --> 00:04:08,800
Speaker 1: spurred the growth of the Confederacy. They just were immediately smashed. Well,

83
00:04:09,240 --> 00:04:10,760
Speaker 1: not immediately. It took a lot of work and a

84
00:04:10,800 --> 00:04:14,160
Speaker 1: lot of people died doing it. But so that's my argument.

85
00:04:14,200 --> 00:04:16,599
Speaker 1: I'm wondering if that tracks with y'all.

86
00:04:17,600 --> 00:04:19,599
Speaker 2: But that makes a lot of sense because now when

87
00:04:19,600 --> 00:04:22,080
Speaker 2: we see John Brown, and that's actually very timely because

88
00:04:22,320 --> 00:04:24,720
Speaker 2: not very long ago. I did the whole episode series

89
00:04:24,760 --> 00:04:28,039
Speaker 2: about John Brown and got a really deep dived dove

90
00:04:28,120 --> 00:04:31,239
Speaker 2: into that conversation. And of course you see people now

91
00:04:31,320 --> 00:04:33,960
Speaker 2: that are well, not my people, but they'll say things

92
00:04:33,960 --> 00:04:35,880
Speaker 2: where they call him a terrorist and he was this

93
00:04:36,279 --> 00:04:38,600
Speaker 2: evil man that killed lots of innocent people and all

94
00:04:38,600 --> 00:04:40,560
Speaker 2: the things. And there's some truth to that. Of course,

95
00:04:40,600 --> 00:04:45,000
Speaker 2: he didn't kill some probably innocent people. But the fact is,

96
00:04:45,040 --> 00:04:46,720
Speaker 2: if you flip that on the side, and like you said,

97
00:04:46,720 --> 00:04:50,080
Speaker 2: if it was the other way around, then the Confederacy won. Yeah,

98
00:04:50,120 --> 00:04:53,200
Speaker 2: the narrative of him being the agent provocateur that instigated

99
00:04:53,200 --> 00:04:55,360
Speaker 2: the battle that allowed them to be victorious in their

100
00:04:55,640 --> 00:04:58,680
Speaker 2: quote unquote war for states rights would make a lot

101
00:04:58,680 --> 00:05:00,880
Speaker 2: of sense. He would be, yeah, yeah, that makes sense.

102
00:05:01,279 --> 00:05:04,240
Speaker 2: That's weird. I haven't thought about it, yeah, because it's

103
00:05:04,240 --> 00:05:05,640
Speaker 2: hard to think about it that way.

104
00:05:05,880 --> 00:05:07,839
Speaker 1: Right, and it's not fun to think about it. But

105
00:05:07,880 --> 00:05:11,960
Speaker 1: there's other times in place. Okay, So other white abolitionists

106
00:05:12,040 --> 00:05:14,680
Speaker 1: did not act like John Brown. Now, plenty of black

107
00:05:14,720 --> 00:05:18,479
Speaker 1: abolitionists led slaver volts, of course, right, other white people

108
00:05:18,520 --> 00:05:20,960
Speaker 1: didn't act like John Brown because they thought in their

109
00:05:21,000 --> 00:05:24,520
Speaker 1: way that being strategic, as they understood it was more

110
00:05:24,520 --> 00:05:28,800
Speaker 1: important than doing what is immediately a moral necessity. It

111
00:05:28,920 --> 00:05:31,960
Speaker 1: is obvious in retrospect that it is a moral necessity

112
00:05:32,040 --> 00:05:34,719
Speaker 1: to attack slave empires with all available vigor.

113
00:05:35,160 --> 00:05:38,400
Speaker 2: Right, Yeah, I mean I think John Brown and others

114
00:05:38,400 --> 00:05:40,440
Speaker 2: said this that were more of his mindset, which was

115
00:05:40,960 --> 00:05:44,240
Speaker 2: he didn't bring the violence. The violence was already here, absolutely,

116
00:05:44,320 --> 00:05:47,239
Speaker 2: But this idea of just financially supporting and slightly bumping

117
00:05:47,279 --> 00:05:50,400
Speaker 2: the Overton window, well maybe it would have worked over

118
00:05:50,440 --> 00:05:53,760
Speaker 2: a couple hundred years. Maybe, but how many people's lives

119
00:05:53,800 --> 00:05:55,920
Speaker 2: are ruined and how much horror happens in those couple

120
00:05:55,920 --> 00:05:56,560
Speaker 2: of hundred.

121
00:05:56,400 --> 00:06:00,160
Speaker 1: Years, right, totally. And you know, there had been efforts

122
00:06:00,160 --> 00:06:01,720
Speaker 1: around the birth of the I mean, we're going to

123
00:06:01,760 --> 00:06:03,880
Speaker 1: do a whole long series about the abolitionists at some point.

124
00:06:03,920 --> 00:06:05,520
Speaker 1: We've talked a lot about on the show already. But

125
00:06:05,760 --> 00:06:09,960
Speaker 1: you know, all these points to like slowly phase it out, right, like, oh, well,

126
00:06:10,240 --> 00:06:13,159
Speaker 1: you know, they theoretically shut down the trans Atlantic slave trade,

127
00:06:13,200 --> 00:06:15,200
Speaker 1: and they like, we're like, oh, only people who are

128
00:06:15,240 --> 00:06:17,960
Speaker 1: born here can be enslaved, and then you know, and

129
00:06:18,000 --> 00:06:19,919
Speaker 1: then later they were like, well you can keep the

130
00:06:19,960 --> 00:06:22,520
Speaker 1: guys you already own, but then maybe their kids are

131
00:06:22,520 --> 00:06:24,039
Speaker 1: for you know, people talked about all kinds of shit,

132
00:06:24,080 --> 00:06:26,520
Speaker 1: and then a lot of people, including a lot of

133
00:06:26,560 --> 00:06:29,159
Speaker 1: enslaved people and formerly enslaved people, were like, no, we're

134
00:06:29,200 --> 00:06:31,960
Speaker 1: just going to shoot you until this problem stops. You know.

135
00:06:32,560 --> 00:06:37,000
Speaker 1: But I think people often misunderstand the difference between moral

136
00:06:37,040 --> 00:06:42,120
Speaker 1: and strategic action, and what is actually strategic is more

137
00:06:42,279 --> 00:06:45,520
Speaker 1: or less unknowable. You can make some guesses right in

138
00:06:45,600 --> 00:06:48,280
Speaker 1: the short term, you tend not to know. We can

139
00:06:48,320 --> 00:06:51,040
Speaker 1: look at it in retrospect and immediately know. We can

140
00:06:51,120 --> 00:06:55,720
Speaker 1: Monday morning quarterback. I'm good at sports. The other thing

141
00:06:56,080 --> 00:06:59,120
Speaker 1: I want to say is that most attacks are not

142
00:06:59,360 --> 00:07:03,520
Speaker 1: false flag attacks. Claiming that something was a false flag attack,

143
00:07:04,240 --> 00:07:06,640
Speaker 1: I would argue, and I'm going to explain why I'm

144
00:07:06,640 --> 00:07:08,520
Speaker 1: talking about this in a minute, but I would argue,

145
00:07:08,520 --> 00:07:10,560
Speaker 1: this is the refuge of people who are afraid to

146
00:07:10,560 --> 00:07:12,840
Speaker 1: do what they know is right. Time and time again.

147
00:07:13,320 --> 00:07:17,080
Speaker 1: Often we're like, oh, that person did a thing, and

148
00:07:17,120 --> 00:07:19,400
Speaker 1: that was a bad idea. So clearly the other side

149
00:07:19,400 --> 00:07:22,920
Speaker 1: did it as a way to excuse the fact that

150
00:07:22,960 --> 00:07:28,160
Speaker 1: they have not taken meaningful action. So all that up front,

151
00:07:28,200 --> 00:07:29,920
Speaker 1: I told you it's gonna be paragraphs before I would

152
00:07:29,920 --> 00:07:32,320
Speaker 1: tell you what we're talking about. I want to talk

153
00:07:32,360 --> 00:07:35,240
Speaker 1: about the biggest and most famous quote unquote false flag

154
00:07:35,280 --> 00:07:37,480
Speaker 1: attack in all of history, the one that is used

155
00:07:37,480 --> 00:07:41,640
Speaker 1: as shorthand for an attack that authoritarians used to centralize power.

156
00:07:42,400 --> 00:07:44,440
Speaker 1: Because this week on Cool People Did Cool Stuff, we're

157
00:07:44,440 --> 00:07:46,119
Speaker 1: going to talk about the fucking Reichstag Fire.

158
00:07:46,840 --> 00:07:49,160
Speaker 2: Yeah. That's the one, ain't it. That's the one that

159
00:07:49,240 --> 00:07:52,760
Speaker 2: supposedly that's the biggest false flag of all that justified

160
00:07:52,800 --> 00:07:55,520
Speaker 2: the Enabling Act and all the things that Hitler used

161
00:07:55,520 --> 00:07:58,640
Speaker 2: to turn it into a true dictatorship. Yep.

162
00:07:59,160 --> 00:08:01,360
Speaker 1: I'm curious what you all. I've been asking my friends

163
00:08:01,440 --> 00:08:04,760
Speaker 1: this all week, Like Carl, I suspect you you know

164
00:08:04,800 --> 00:08:07,960
Speaker 1: a bit about this topic, but coming into it, what

165
00:08:08,000 --> 00:08:10,000
Speaker 1: do you all know about the Reichstag Fire. I'm curious

166
00:08:10,000 --> 00:08:10,360
Speaker 1: both of you.

167
00:08:11,280 --> 00:08:13,240
Speaker 2: Oh, I mean, my basic understanding is you have this

168
00:08:13,280 --> 00:08:15,160
Speaker 2: little Dutch boy, I believe his name was vander Lub.

169
00:08:15,240 --> 00:08:17,360
Speaker 2: If I'm pronouncing that properly, is that correct?

170
00:08:17,560 --> 00:08:19,720
Speaker 1: And I have it later in my script how to

171
00:08:19,720 --> 00:08:21,520
Speaker 1: pronounce it, but I don't have in front of me.

172
00:08:22,160 --> 00:08:24,840
Speaker 2: Well that was. If it's a mispronunciation, we'll fix that later,

173
00:08:25,280 --> 00:08:30,280
Speaker 2: but the narrative was that his zealotry towards the Nazis

174
00:08:30,320 --> 00:08:34,720
Speaker 2: would have said, his zelotry against their democratically elected government

175
00:08:34,960 --> 00:08:36,880
Speaker 2: was that he proved him so that he was that

176
00:08:36,960 --> 00:08:39,760
Speaker 2: the radicals of the left and the communists would burn

177
00:08:39,880 --> 00:08:42,680
Speaker 2: down this symbol of the nation state and their power

178
00:08:42,760 --> 00:08:45,200
Speaker 2: by setting fire to the Reichstag. Yeah. I think the

179
00:08:45,200 --> 00:08:48,400
Speaker 2: opposite of that would be, these are fascists and Nazis

180
00:08:48,400 --> 00:08:50,480
Speaker 2: and evil, and I'm going to burn down the symbol

181
00:08:50,520 --> 00:08:51,120
Speaker 2: of their power.

182
00:08:51,640 --> 00:08:51,880
Speaker 1: Yeah.

183
00:08:51,920 --> 00:08:54,800
Speaker 2: So yeah, I mean it makes sense, right, And when

184
00:08:54,880 --> 00:08:57,080
Speaker 2: you open the door to that thing, much like you

185
00:08:57,360 --> 00:08:59,440
Speaker 2: great reference to John Brown, you don't know what's coming

186
00:08:59,480 --> 00:09:02,360
Speaker 2: out of the other. Like John Brown's actions at Harper's

187
00:09:02,360 --> 00:09:06,120
Speaker 2: Ferry didn't go the way he wanted, but ultimately it worked, right.

188
00:09:06,960 --> 00:09:08,840
Speaker 1: I mean, coming out of the gate, you know anything

189
00:09:08,880 --> 00:09:10,600
Speaker 1: about the Reichshtag fire, heard anything?

190
00:09:11,480 --> 00:09:16,480
Speaker 3: Okay, I'm going to boldly just be honest and say, no,

191
00:09:16,840 --> 00:09:19,720
Speaker 3: I don't know anything about this great No, No that

192
00:09:19,760 --> 00:09:22,320
Speaker 3: makes sense other than it was like almost like the

193
00:09:22,360 --> 00:09:24,840
Speaker 3: first shot fire that started like at all, that's all

194
00:09:24,880 --> 00:09:27,520
Speaker 3: I really know. It was just like the Yeah, one

195
00:09:27,559 --> 00:09:29,600
Speaker 3: of those big events in history books that you learn

196
00:09:29,600 --> 00:09:33,440
Speaker 3: about and then I forget about mutually. But audience members,

197
00:09:33,480 --> 00:09:36,120
Speaker 3: if you are like me, feel no shame. I don't

198
00:09:36,160 --> 00:09:38,120
Speaker 3: know anything ever either.

199
00:09:39,120 --> 00:09:42,840
Speaker 1: I mean I was like that a week ago, well, okay,

200
00:09:42,880 --> 00:09:45,760
Speaker 1: a year ago, I was like, oh, the Reichstag fire,

201
00:09:45,880 --> 00:09:48,000
Speaker 1: that thing that was famously a false flag attack that

202
00:09:48,040 --> 00:09:51,400
Speaker 1: the Nazis used. It's like all I knew, right, yeah,

203
00:09:51,440 --> 00:09:53,520
Speaker 1: and then at some point I was like, I wonder

204
00:09:53,559 --> 00:09:55,280
Speaker 1: who did that, and I like looked it up and

205
00:09:55,320 --> 00:09:59,480
Speaker 1: I was like, this isn't the story I've heard, and

206
00:09:59,520 --> 00:10:01,560
Speaker 1: so I had it I like to do list and yeah.

207
00:10:01,559 --> 00:10:03,080
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, it's funny because I always come

208
00:10:03,080 --> 00:10:04,599
Speaker 1: in and be like I know everything about history, and

209
00:10:04,640 --> 00:10:06,120
Speaker 1: it's like, no, I know everything about the thing that

210
00:10:06,160 --> 00:10:08,319
Speaker 1: I have just spent the past week reading books about.

211
00:10:09,559 --> 00:10:09,760
Speaker 2: You know.

212
00:10:09,960 --> 00:10:12,520
Speaker 3: That's fair. That's fair. What we learn in school is

213
00:10:12,559 --> 00:10:17,480
Speaker 3: so truncated, and so unless you really do your own research,

214
00:10:17,520 --> 00:10:19,200
Speaker 3: you're not going to learn much about the world.

215
00:10:19,400 --> 00:10:21,800
Speaker 2: So yeah, I think it's a mixed bag, right. It's

216
00:10:21,800 --> 00:10:24,920
Speaker 2: truncated and it's also formulated, so it's like it's the

217
00:10:24,960 --> 00:10:27,040
Speaker 2: product of what a lot of people, over a long

218
00:10:27,080 --> 00:10:29,199
Speaker 2: time have wanted you to learn, right, But it's also

219
00:10:29,280 --> 00:10:31,720
Speaker 2: just they just leave out a lot of stuff. And yeah,

220
00:10:31,720 --> 00:10:33,800
Speaker 2: sometimes I don't know if it's a sin of emission

221
00:10:33,880 --> 00:10:37,440
Speaker 2: intentionally or just accidental, but the landscape turns into not

222
00:10:37,480 --> 00:10:39,199
Speaker 2: really what it is. When you dig into stuff, it's

223
00:10:39,200 --> 00:10:41,600
Speaker 2: like WHOA really? Wow? Exactly.

224
00:10:41,880 --> 00:10:44,440
Speaker 1: Yeah, And I'm going to give you a little spoiler.

225
00:10:44,559 --> 00:10:46,640
Speaker 1: The reason that so many people think it was a

226
00:10:46,679 --> 00:10:50,640
Speaker 1: false flag attack is because nineteen thirties communists are a

227
00:10:50,640 --> 00:10:51,559
Speaker 1: bunch of homophobes.

228
00:10:52,600 --> 00:10:52,800
Speaker 2: Wow.

229
00:10:53,320 --> 00:10:56,120
Speaker 1: And I'm going to defend that thesis, although much later

230
00:10:56,160 --> 00:10:57,920
Speaker 1: in the episode, I.

231
00:10:57,840 --> 00:10:59,800
Speaker 3: Love what Margaret defend the thesis.

232
00:11:00,400 --> 00:11:01,000
Speaker 2: Yeah.

233
00:11:01,120 --> 00:11:03,960
Speaker 1: No, that part was like, that was the like holy

234
00:11:04,080 --> 00:11:07,400
Speaker 1: shit moment of this whole thing for me, because most

235
00:11:07,480 --> 00:11:09,360
Speaker 1: leftist history doesn't want to talk about that part for

236
00:11:09,400 --> 00:11:14,120
Speaker 1: some weird reason. So we're going to start this story

237
00:11:14,160 --> 00:11:16,760
Speaker 1: by talking about the rise of the Nazis, because you

238
00:11:16,800 --> 00:11:19,880
Speaker 1: know what, I needed a refresher. I didn't know a

239
00:11:19,920 --> 00:11:23,320
Speaker 1: lot of it. We're going to start more recently than

240
00:11:23,320 --> 00:11:27,760
Speaker 1: we sometimes do. During World War One. Germany was a

241
00:11:27,800 --> 00:11:32,280
Speaker 1: strange thing. It was a constitutional empire. It had twenty

242
00:11:32,280 --> 00:11:36,079
Speaker 1: five states, four kingdoms, five duchies, seven principalities, three free

243
00:11:36,760 --> 00:11:40,079
Speaker 1: Hanseatic cities, and one imperial territory, and a partridge in

244
00:11:40,120 --> 00:11:43,800
Speaker 1: a pear tree. One of the four kingdoms was Prussia,

245
00:11:44,200 --> 00:11:46,480
Speaker 1: which made up about two thirds of Germany by both

246
00:11:46,480 --> 00:11:49,920
Speaker 1: population and land mass. The King of Prussia was also

247
00:11:49,960 --> 00:11:53,240
Speaker 1: the emperor, the Kaiser. This is the second Reich, right

248
00:11:53,320 --> 00:11:56,880
Speaker 1: Hitler's famously the third Reich. This is the second one.

249
00:11:57,080 --> 00:11:59,599
Speaker 1: It had a constitution and a parliament, but at the

250
00:11:59,640 --> 00:12:02,440
Speaker 1: end of the y, the Kaiser's in charge. In fact,

251
00:12:02,520 --> 00:12:06,520
Speaker 1: in nineteen fourteen, the German parliament did its first enabling act,

252
00:12:06,600 --> 00:12:08,839
Speaker 1: like Karl talked about earlier, and this is the first

253
00:12:08,840 --> 00:12:12,840
Speaker 1: one it did under its constitution to limit basic rights

254
00:12:12,840 --> 00:12:15,000
Speaker 1: of the populace to help the war effort. They're like, wow,

255
00:12:15,040 --> 00:12:16,960
Speaker 1: there's a war on. We can't have all those democracy

256
00:12:17,000 --> 00:12:20,040
Speaker 1: fucking things up, you know, like people only have freedom

257
00:12:20,080 --> 00:12:25,400
Speaker 1: when like I feel like it. Basically, the constitution had

258
00:12:25,400 --> 00:12:27,640
Speaker 1: a we will follow this constitution until we don't want

259
00:12:27,679 --> 00:12:31,760
Speaker 1: to clause, well, until the Kaiser doesn't want to. Famously,

260
00:12:31,840 --> 00:12:35,560
Speaker 1: this did not work. Germany still lost the war, the

261
00:12:35,640 --> 00:12:39,040
Speaker 1: Great War, in fact, and the empire collapsed in November

262
00:12:39,120 --> 00:12:42,360
Speaker 1: nineteen eighteen. A Republic grew up in its place. First,

263
00:12:42,360 --> 00:12:44,040
Speaker 1: they tried to have a revolution. They actually tried to

264
00:12:44,040 --> 00:12:45,599
Speaker 1: do like a kind of a communist revolution that a

265
00:12:45,600 --> 00:12:47,440
Speaker 1: bunch of anarchists were involved in. And I'll talk about

266
00:12:47,480 --> 00:12:50,439
Speaker 1: it eventually one of these days. And B Traven who

267
00:12:50,440 --> 00:12:52,760
Speaker 1: wrote The Death Ship and the Treasure of the Sierra Madre.

268
00:12:52,800 --> 00:12:54,760
Speaker 1: Have you ever seen the movie this Treasure of Sera Madre?

269
00:12:55,400 --> 00:12:55,559
Speaker 3: No?

270
00:12:56,240 --> 00:12:58,319
Speaker 1: Okay, well never mind, you all didn't grow up with

271
00:12:58,360 --> 00:13:00,320
Speaker 1: an older sister made you watch old movies. But there's

272
00:13:00,320 --> 00:13:03,280
Speaker 1: this old movie called Treasure Sier Madre. The point of

273
00:13:03,280 --> 00:13:04,560
Speaker 1: this is that the guy who wrote this book, you

274
00:13:04,559 --> 00:13:06,040
Speaker 1: all don't know what I'm talking about, was an anarchist

275
00:13:06,080 --> 00:13:08,720
Speaker 1: who had fled Germany. But we'll talk about that some

276
00:13:08,760 --> 00:13:10,240
Speaker 1: other time. He lived under cover.

277
00:13:10,520 --> 00:13:12,120
Speaker 3: Is it a good movie? Should I add it to

278
00:13:12,120 --> 00:13:12,760
Speaker 3: my letterbox?

279
00:13:12,840 --> 00:13:13,200
Speaker 1: Uh?

280
00:13:13,320 --> 00:13:13,880
Speaker 3: Watch list?

281
00:13:14,800 --> 00:13:18,439
Speaker 1: You know, like, it's interesting if you like old movies.

282
00:13:18,480 --> 00:13:20,760
Speaker 1: It's fun, it has class politics. It's like weird because

283
00:13:20,760 --> 00:13:22,920
Speaker 1: it's these like white dudes who are down and out

284
00:13:22,920 --> 00:13:25,559
Speaker 1: in Mexico who want to go gold prospecting, but they're

285
00:13:25,600 --> 00:13:28,600
Speaker 1: like vagabonds living on the street and they're like hustling

286
00:13:28,640 --> 00:13:31,200
Speaker 1: all the rich white people who are there by being like, hey,

287
00:13:31,240 --> 00:13:34,160
Speaker 1: help a fellow American. Now, just buy me a cigarette,

288
00:13:34,160 --> 00:13:36,600
Speaker 1: and the guy's like, you've asked me like three times.

289
00:13:36,679 --> 00:13:42,280
Speaker 1: He's like cock crap. Anyway, So Betraving, one day you're

290
00:13:42,320 --> 00:13:43,960
Speaker 1: going to be the hero of this story because you

291
00:13:44,000 --> 00:13:47,920
Speaker 1: were so fascinating. That's not how we're talking about. They

292
00:13:47,960 --> 00:13:51,559
Speaker 1: become a republic after the revolution fails. They become the

293
00:13:51,640 --> 00:13:53,960
Speaker 1: Weimar Republic, and we've done a bunch of episodes about

294
00:13:53,960 --> 00:13:56,600
Speaker 1: the Vymar Republic because they're really fucking interesting and cool.

295
00:13:57,440 --> 00:14:00,000
Speaker 1: There's all these like queer youth groups that are fighting nuts,

296
00:14:00,280 --> 00:14:02,760
Speaker 1: and we've done episodes about the a narcosyndicalists who ran

297
00:14:02,920 --> 00:14:06,319
Speaker 1: hundreds of illegal abortion clinics, providing millions of safe abortions

298
00:14:06,360 --> 00:14:08,480
Speaker 1: in Weimar Germany. If you wanted an abortion, you were

299
00:14:08,520 --> 00:14:11,199
Speaker 1: going to either the syndicalists or the people who syndicalists trained.

300
00:14:12,360 --> 00:14:16,320
Speaker 1: The Weimar Republic was a wildly interesting place. Everyone as

301
00:14:16,400 --> 00:14:19,040
Speaker 1: hungry as fuck. The reparations that they had to pay

302
00:14:19,040 --> 00:14:22,760
Speaker 1: the rest of countries is crippling the economy, and a

303
00:14:22,840 --> 00:14:25,680
Speaker 1: million types of leftists and right wing folks are forming

304
00:14:25,720 --> 00:14:28,920
Speaker 1: gangs and fighting each other in the streets. People are

305
00:14:28,920 --> 00:14:31,680
Speaker 1: making all kinds of cool art. Human sexuality is being

306
00:14:31,720 --> 00:14:33,880
Speaker 1: researched for the first time in Western history, like as

307
00:14:33,920 --> 00:14:38,960
Speaker 1: like a science. And the way it worked governmentally is

308
00:14:39,040 --> 00:14:42,320
Speaker 1: like this. You have an elected president and you have

309
00:14:42,360 --> 00:14:45,880
Speaker 1: an elected parliament, which is called the Reichstag, which just

310
00:14:46,040 --> 00:14:51,640
Speaker 1: stands for Parliament of the Empire. Basically, the parliament meets

311
00:14:51,640 --> 00:14:55,320
Speaker 1: in a building that is also called the Reichstag. The

312
00:14:55,320 --> 00:14:59,080
Speaker 1: president then appoints a chancellor who introduces legislation to the reichstock.

313
00:14:59,120 --> 00:15:01,800
Speaker 1: So the chancellor is a poin. Everyone else is elected,

314
00:15:02,400 --> 00:15:06,840
Speaker 1: and theoretically the chancellor's supposed to be the Guy's always

315
00:15:06,880 --> 00:15:10,640
Speaker 1: a guy. I think the person in charge of whatever group,

316
00:15:10,800 --> 00:15:13,800
Speaker 1: whatever political party, is the most seats in parliament, it's

317
00:15:13,800 --> 00:15:15,720
Speaker 1: gonna come up. I normally kind of skim over a

318
00:15:15,720 --> 00:15:17,640
Speaker 1: lot of this shit, but I think it's important. In

319
00:15:17,640 --> 00:15:21,960
Speaker 1: this story. The president can dismiss his cabinet and his chancellor.

320
00:15:21,960 --> 00:15:23,600
Speaker 1: I asked, Okay, so there's this thing that happens. I

321
00:15:23,600 --> 00:15:26,479
Speaker 1: think whenever I'm reading history about like Europe and other democracies,

322
00:15:26,520 --> 00:15:28,000
Speaker 1: I'm so used to the way that the US works

323
00:15:28,440 --> 00:15:29,800
Speaker 1: that you read about things and you're like, oh, and

324
00:15:29,880 --> 00:15:33,200
Speaker 1: then they dismiss the parliament. I'm like, what the fuck, Like,

325
00:15:33,280 --> 00:15:38,040
Speaker 1: holy shit, what is that? Like, that's like crazy shit

326
00:15:38,200 --> 00:15:40,480
Speaker 1: is happening. And you're like, no, that's a this is

327
00:15:40,520 --> 00:15:41,960
Speaker 1: what they do, you know.

328
00:15:42,560 --> 00:15:45,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, we saw actions similar like that in France just recently, right,

329
00:15:45,640 --> 00:15:48,040
Speaker 2: I mean that's what yep, So it's not this is

330
00:15:48,080 --> 00:15:48,640
Speaker 2: still going on.

331
00:15:48,880 --> 00:15:52,240
Speaker 1: Yeah, no totally. And that's the like, so things seem

332
00:15:52,280 --> 00:15:54,240
Speaker 1: a little bit more heated than they sometimes are. I mean,

333
00:15:54,240 --> 00:15:56,240
Speaker 1: things are peeded in France right now and stuff, right,

334
00:15:56,320 --> 00:15:58,880
Speaker 1: but it's like these specific actions are not quite as

335
00:15:58,960 --> 00:16:02,440
Speaker 1: like why old as they might seem to us in

336
00:16:02,520 --> 00:16:06,840
Speaker 1: our weird two party thing. He can dissolve the parliament

337
00:16:06,880 --> 00:16:08,920
Speaker 1: and call for new elections if the parliament isn't getting

338
00:16:08,920 --> 00:16:10,560
Speaker 1: shit done, right, Like if you just elect a bunch

339
00:16:10,600 --> 00:16:12,920
Speaker 1: of people who all hate each other, nothing can get done.

340
00:16:13,120 --> 00:16:14,640
Speaker 1: They're like, all right, well, all you fucking go home.

341
00:16:14,680 --> 00:16:17,560
Speaker 1: We're gonna just do this again, you know. And in

342
00:16:17,680 --> 00:16:22,080
Speaker 1: national emergencies, the president has Article forty eight, which is

343
00:16:22,120 --> 00:16:25,320
Speaker 1: the right to be a dictator. So this is actually

344
00:16:26,080 --> 00:16:29,080
Speaker 1: not wait, what the right to be that's like a thing,

345
00:16:29,400 --> 00:16:32,120
Speaker 1: uh huh, it's in the constitution of Germany in the

346
00:16:32,160 --> 00:16:36,320
Speaker 1: Weimar Republic, because well it's kind of the same constitution

347
00:16:36,440 --> 00:16:39,240
Speaker 1: that they had in the Empire. Like when I say

348
00:16:39,280 --> 00:16:42,360
Speaker 1: all that's changed, I have not read these documents side

349
00:16:42,400 --> 00:16:45,520
Speaker 1: by side. But all that's changed is now your emperor

350
00:16:45,600 --> 00:16:49,880
Speaker 1: is elected, you know, because he's still appointing the chancellor.

351
00:16:50,000 --> 00:16:52,840
Speaker 1: He's still able to call himself a dictator anytime he wants.

352
00:16:53,320 --> 00:16:56,680
Speaker 1: The only difference is that he's elected again. I'm sure

353
00:16:56,680 --> 00:17:01,840
Speaker 1: there's other differences. And among all these different political groups

354
00:17:01,920 --> 00:17:06,000
Speaker 1: that's fucking around trying to take power is famously the

355
00:17:06,080 --> 00:17:10,560
Speaker 1: National Socialist Workers Party aka the Nazis. This for a

356
00:17:10,680 --> 00:17:14,720
Speaker 1: very long time, is a tiny minority party. Their main

357
00:17:14,840 --> 00:17:17,359
Speaker 1: claim to fame is that their leader this like shitty

358
00:17:17,440 --> 00:17:20,159
Speaker 1: artist named Adolf Hitler. Most people haven't heard of him.

359
00:17:20,200 --> 00:17:22,960
Speaker 1: He's really obscure artist. Is my best joke I have

360
00:17:23,119 --> 00:17:25,000
Speaker 1: in the whole script. Sorry everyone.

361
00:17:25,440 --> 00:17:27,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's very hipster stuff. I mean, if you haven't

362
00:17:27,440 --> 00:17:29,120
Speaker 2: seen it, it's yeah, it's pretty rare.

363
00:17:29,200 --> 00:17:32,800
Speaker 1: Yeah, he's got that weird, edgy mustache. He's got Charlie

364
00:17:32,880 --> 00:17:36,879
Speaker 1: Chaplin like, he's funny. He tried and failed to stage

365
00:17:36,880 --> 00:17:39,399
Speaker 1: a coup in nineteen twenty three. That's like all anyone

366
00:17:39,440 --> 00:17:41,439
Speaker 1: knows about the Nazis. It's like, I mean, they're like

367
00:17:41,440 --> 00:17:43,320
Speaker 1: the Proud Boys or something. People are like, what, there's

368
00:17:43,359 --> 00:17:45,359
Speaker 1: that group. I don't know. They seem to do some

369
00:17:45,400 --> 00:17:47,520
Speaker 1: bad shit. There's like ten of them, right, you know.

370
00:17:48,440 --> 00:17:52,280
Speaker 1: And the reason that they're named the National Socialists is

371
00:17:52,280 --> 00:17:56,000
Speaker 1: that they're a right wing party that is supernationalist. But

372
00:17:56,119 --> 00:17:59,560
Speaker 1: initially they had some anti capitalist and anti bourgeois ideas

373
00:17:59,560 --> 00:18:02,760
Speaker 1: floating round within it, much like you see in the

374
00:18:02,760 --> 00:18:06,200
Speaker 1: Modern Republican Party where RNC this week as we recorded

375
00:18:06,240 --> 00:18:09,000
Speaker 1: two weeks ago, as you're listening, they're up there being

376
00:18:09,040 --> 00:18:12,040
Speaker 1: like and fuck the elite, am I right? And then

377
00:18:12,119 --> 00:18:15,040
Speaker 1: like all the richest people in the world are like, yeah,

378
00:18:15,080 --> 00:18:18,439
Speaker 1: fuck us, no, some other guy Jews, I mean they

379
00:18:18,480 --> 00:18:20,840
Speaker 1: mean Jews, right, That's.

380
00:18:20,720 --> 00:18:23,359
Speaker 2: What it always comes down to. Yeah, But see they're socialists.

381
00:18:23,359 --> 00:18:24,480
Speaker 2: They just proved their point.

382
00:18:24,800 --> 00:18:29,400
Speaker 1: Yeah, and so they were actually borrowing some ideas from leftism,

383
00:18:29,760 --> 00:18:32,000
Speaker 1: many of which are ideas that we should analyze and

384
00:18:32,040 --> 00:18:33,840
Speaker 1: wonder how we talk about, right, because this is one

385
00:18:33,880 --> 00:18:35,840
Speaker 1: of the ways that anti Semitism creeps into some things

386
00:18:35,840 --> 00:18:39,240
Speaker 1: sometimes is when whatever all the left Nazis are gonna

387
00:18:39,240 --> 00:18:42,880
Speaker 1: get murdered soon. They're all dead. By the time everything happens,

388
00:18:42,920 --> 00:18:45,399
Speaker 1: they all get fucking killed by the other Nazis. So

389
00:18:45,640 --> 00:18:46,720
Speaker 1: no more left Nazis.

390
00:18:46,760 --> 00:18:48,000
Speaker 2: The Night of the Long Knives.

391
00:18:48,240 --> 00:18:53,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, no more gay Nazis. Whatever. After the failed coup,

392
00:18:54,320 --> 00:18:57,879
Speaker 1: Hitler was like, all right, how can I take power

393
00:18:58,000 --> 00:19:00,240
Speaker 1: in a legal way? And what he should have done

394
00:19:00,480 --> 00:19:03,560
Speaker 1: is run political ads, which we don't run on this podcast.

395
00:19:03,960 --> 00:19:06,520
Speaker 1: We have some lines, and one of our lines is

396
00:19:06,520 --> 00:19:08,680
Speaker 1: that we don't do political ads. If you hear one,

397
00:19:08,720 --> 00:19:11,080
Speaker 1: it is actually a mistake. Instead of usually where I'm like,

398
00:19:11,520 --> 00:19:13,879
Speaker 1: you're ad for anything bad, it's a mistake, Like, no,

399
00:19:14,200 --> 00:19:17,640
Speaker 1: everything is bad. We live in a hell world of capitalism.

400
00:19:17,720 --> 00:19:20,760
Speaker 1: But at least there's no political ads coming up. I

401
00:19:20,800 --> 00:19:34,560
Speaker 1: hope here they are the non political ads. Ooh, we're back,

402
00:19:34,560 --> 00:19:39,920
Speaker 1: and I'm going to vote with my dollar for gambling

403
00:19:40,720 --> 00:19:41,679
Speaker 1: whatever we sold.

404
00:19:42,920 --> 00:19:45,520
Speaker 2: I don't know. I subsist entirely on only Hello Fresh.

405
00:19:45,560 --> 00:19:46,639
Speaker 2: It's the only way I stay a lout.

406
00:19:46,960 --> 00:19:48,960
Speaker 3: Yeah that's right, you heard it here first.

407
00:19:50,600 --> 00:19:52,480
Speaker 2: If a company doesn't send me a box of food

408
00:19:52,480 --> 00:19:53,840
Speaker 2: to my door, I just die. I don't know what

409
00:19:53,880 --> 00:19:54,119
Speaker 2: to do.

410
00:19:54,440 --> 00:19:56,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, I tried one or not. I'm not gonna say

411
00:19:56,560 --> 00:19:58,399
Speaker 1: which one. I tried it, and then I felt so

412
00:19:58,480 --> 00:20:00,760
Speaker 1: bad about the waste of the like box that had

413
00:20:00,760 --> 00:20:04,680
Speaker 1: the fucking thing, and then and all of the yeah,

414
00:20:04,720 --> 00:20:07,280
Speaker 1: and then also like I live like like mail service

415
00:20:07,359 --> 00:20:09,080
Speaker 1: is not fast where I live. It's not even that

416
00:20:09,119 --> 00:20:11,720
Speaker 1: I live like so far from civilization. It's that I

417
00:20:11,760 --> 00:20:14,200
Speaker 1: live in a really underserved area because no one cares

418
00:20:14,200 --> 00:20:15,840
Speaker 1: about the people who live here because they're rural and

419
00:20:15,920 --> 00:20:18,960
Speaker 1: poor and so like everything takes like a week to

420
00:20:19,000 --> 00:20:23,240
Speaker 1: get here, and it's more like hello on fresh, it's

421
00:20:23,280 --> 00:20:25,160
Speaker 1: not that's not the even the one I used. That's

422
00:20:25,160 --> 00:20:26,840
Speaker 1: not the one I used. Please don't get mad at me.

423
00:20:26,920 --> 00:20:29,080
Speaker 2: Hello, been sitting in the back of the truck sweating

424
00:20:29,119 --> 00:20:29,600
Speaker 2: for a week.

425
00:20:29,880 --> 00:20:31,200
Speaker 4: Yeah.

426
00:20:31,240 --> 00:20:35,720
Speaker 1: So anyway, I go to the grocery store, which is good.

427
00:20:35,520 --> 00:20:37,600
Speaker 2: Which is only nominally better, right, I mean, it's like

428
00:20:37,640 --> 00:20:39,679
Speaker 2: this sells green ones, but now it's a little wilted.

429
00:20:40,040 --> 00:20:42,440
Speaker 1: And also all the weird packaging is not I don't

430
00:20:42,440 --> 00:20:43,120
Speaker 1: have to see it.

431
00:20:43,720 --> 00:20:46,200
Speaker 2: Right, No, that's that's that's done for you. They throw

432
00:20:46,240 --> 00:20:47,360
Speaker 2: that away so you don't have to.

433
00:20:47,600 --> 00:20:50,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, exactly. Actually I shred all the cardboard and

434
00:20:51,000 --> 00:20:53,800
Speaker 1: then compost it. But that's because I am strange.

435
00:20:54,160 --> 00:20:55,919
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, it's a good way to deal with it.

436
00:20:55,920 --> 00:20:57,160
Speaker 3: Actually, yeah that's good.

437
00:20:57,480 --> 00:20:57,680
Speaker 2: Yeah.

438
00:20:57,720 --> 00:20:59,840
Speaker 1: No, yeah, they used to burn it and know that.

439
00:21:00,040 --> 00:21:02,480
Speaker 1: I don't know if that's legal. I used to recycle

440
00:21:02,520 --> 00:21:04,280
Speaker 1: it all. I used to drive it to another state

441
00:21:04,400 --> 00:21:07,080
Speaker 1: to recycle it. That's what I'm going to claim. No

442
00:21:07,119 --> 00:21:09,199
Speaker 1: one here does that, absolutely, no one here does that.

443
00:21:09,920 --> 00:21:13,040
Speaker 1: They don't recycle cardboard where I live, I don't. Recycling's fake?

444
00:21:13,119 --> 00:21:15,600
Speaker 2: Do they even know what recycling is? I mean, that's

445
00:21:15,680 --> 00:21:16,960
Speaker 2: some places, don't I know.

446
00:21:17,320 --> 00:21:19,080
Speaker 1: They might just be a step ahead and know that

447
00:21:19,119 --> 00:21:19,800
Speaker 1: it's all fake.

448
00:21:20,240 --> 00:21:24,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, this is an instance in which the wrong take

449
00:21:24,400 --> 00:21:26,600
Speaker 2: is the right take because they're skeptical of it. It

450
00:21:26,640 --> 00:21:27,600
Speaker 2: turns out they're not wrong.

451
00:21:27,880 --> 00:21:28,120
Speaker 1: Yeah.

452
00:21:28,640 --> 00:21:28,840
Speaker 2: Yeah.

453
00:21:29,200 --> 00:21:34,240
Speaker 1: Anyway, what else people should be skeptical of is the Nazis.

454
00:21:34,520 --> 00:21:38,199
Speaker 1: There's actually no you should actually just kill them. So

455
00:21:38,240 --> 00:21:41,120
Speaker 1: they got really into party politics after their failed coup

456
00:21:41,119 --> 00:21:42,920
Speaker 1: didn't work. They were like, all right, what's the legal

457
00:21:42,960 --> 00:21:45,439
Speaker 1: way to take power again? Something that we have no

458
00:21:45,520 --> 00:21:48,040
Speaker 1: idea about people trying to do in the United States,

459
00:21:48,320 --> 00:21:51,480
Speaker 1: And so they campaigned on a platform that's like fuck

460
00:21:51,560 --> 00:21:57,640
Speaker 1: Commi's fuck Jews, go Germany. That's their main points of unity. Specifically,

461
00:21:57,680 --> 00:22:00,280
Speaker 1: they're like, fuck everyone who signed the Treaty of Si

462
00:22:00,600 --> 00:22:04,000
Speaker 1: they're traders. Germany should have won, should have just kept

463
00:22:04,160 --> 00:22:08,520
Speaker 1: sending boys into a grinder that no one can see.

464
00:22:08,520 --> 00:22:11,719
Speaker 1: The face I'm making, but it's not a positive one.

465
00:22:11,840 --> 00:22:13,439
Speaker 1: And when I say it wasn't a big deal of

466
00:22:13,480 --> 00:22:16,040
Speaker 1: a party at the time, in nineteen twenty eight, they

467
00:22:16,040 --> 00:22:18,320
Speaker 1: had one hundred thousand members. There's like sixty five million

468
00:22:18,320 --> 00:22:20,240
Speaker 1: people in Germany. They had one hundred thousand of them

469
00:22:20,640 --> 00:22:23,600
Speaker 1: and they won two point six percent of the vote.

470
00:22:23,720 --> 00:22:25,200
Speaker 3: But then the.

471
00:22:25,119 --> 00:22:30,240
Speaker 1: World economy fucking collapsed. Thirty percent of Germany was soon unemployed.

472
00:22:30,760 --> 00:22:33,680
Speaker 1: And when the economy is fucked, people look for easy answers.

473
00:22:33,920 --> 00:22:38,040
Speaker 1: They're looking for people to blame. By nineteen thirty, the

474
00:22:38,119 --> 00:22:41,600
Speaker 1: Nazis had eighteen point three percent of the vote and

475
00:22:41,640 --> 00:22:44,520
Speaker 1: they were the second biggest party after the Social Democrats.

476
00:22:45,359 --> 00:22:48,000
Speaker 1: The Communist Party also saw a huge burst of activity.

477
00:22:48,040 --> 00:22:52,160
Speaker 1: Two they're trailing at ten percent of the vote. When

478
00:22:52,200 --> 00:22:55,719
Speaker 1: Weimar the Republic first started out, they had a moderate

479
00:22:55,760 --> 00:22:57,879
Speaker 1: Social Democrat for president. This is the whole thing that's like,

480
00:22:57,920 --> 00:23:00,280
Speaker 1: really confusing because if you use any political term, you

481
00:23:00,280 --> 00:23:02,480
Speaker 1: mean a completely different thing decade to decade in country

482
00:23:02,520 --> 00:23:04,920
Speaker 1: to country. Right, a social democrat in Germany is like

483
00:23:04,920 --> 00:23:07,120
Speaker 1: a centrist. A social democrat in Germany is a kind

484
00:23:07,119 --> 00:23:11,240
Speaker 1: of a democrat. Now in the US, right they have

485
00:23:11,320 --> 00:23:13,560
Speaker 1: his moderate social democrat for a president, but that guy

486
00:23:13,600 --> 00:23:17,320
Speaker 1: died in office. So in nineteen twenty five, the right

487
00:23:17,520 --> 00:23:20,800
Speaker 1: all got together to run one candidate together, this guy

488
00:23:20,840 --> 00:23:25,679
Speaker 1: Paul von Hindenberg, most famous for blowing up as a limp.

489
00:23:25,880 --> 00:23:28,879
Speaker 2: No, they named the balloon after the zeppr No, I know,

490
00:23:31,040 --> 00:23:33,600
Speaker 2: but he was a famous general that got lots of

491
00:23:33,600 --> 00:23:34,520
Speaker 2: people killed in the war.

492
00:23:34,680 --> 00:23:37,000
Speaker 1: Yeah he was. I think he was in charge of

493
00:23:37,000 --> 00:23:38,959
Speaker 1: Germany and World War One. You know more about this,

494
00:23:39,160 --> 00:23:39,760
Speaker 1: I think.

495
00:23:39,840 --> 00:23:43,400
Speaker 2: Yeah he was. He was pretty much like their military head,

496
00:23:43,720 --> 00:23:46,000
Speaker 2: for lack of a better term, And so the general

497
00:23:46,040 --> 00:23:50,120
Speaker 2: German war effort was Hindenburg down. Wow. Okay, I mean

498
00:23:50,119 --> 00:23:52,399
Speaker 2: you said you still had the Kaiser Wilhelm, right, but

499
00:23:52,480 --> 00:23:55,080
Speaker 2: like Hindenburg was the military arm of that.

500
00:23:55,560 --> 00:23:58,199
Speaker 1: Okay. So this guy who had famously lost them a

501
00:23:58,240 --> 00:24:02,119
Speaker 1: war and gotten all of their kids killed. They voted

502
00:24:02,119 --> 00:24:05,680
Speaker 1: into office in nineteen twenty five and he doesn't have

503
00:24:05,680 --> 00:24:08,160
Speaker 1: a political party, which is kind of that part's impressive.

504
00:24:08,160 --> 00:24:10,440
Speaker 1: He ran as an independent, but it's because he didn't

505
00:24:10,440 --> 00:24:12,239
Speaker 1: go with one right wing party. He was all of them.

506
00:24:12,280 --> 00:24:15,000
Speaker 1: He was the voice of all the right wingers. He

507
00:24:15,040 --> 00:24:17,680
Speaker 1: actually didn't like the Nazis, even though he is absolutely

508
00:24:17,760 --> 00:24:20,080
Speaker 1: the one who put them into power. We'll talk about that.

509
00:24:20,119 --> 00:24:21,879
Speaker 2: Do you mean like he kind of pulled a unite

510
00:24:21,880 --> 00:24:22,240
Speaker 2: the right.

511
00:24:22,600 --> 00:24:27,040
Speaker 1: Oh no, no, we talk about history, completely devoid of

512
00:24:27,040 --> 00:24:29,520
Speaker 1: all things. It's a coincidence that I'm doing the Reichstag

513
00:24:29,600 --> 00:24:35,480
Speaker 1: fire episode right now. Yeah. So he's old as fuck

514
00:24:35,520 --> 00:24:38,520
Speaker 1: when he's elected, totally unfamiliar to the modern American audience.

515
00:24:38,520 --> 00:24:40,680
Speaker 1: He's like seventy nine or something when he's elected, which

516
00:24:40,720 --> 00:24:45,480
Speaker 1: is younger than by a young Chap Yeah, yeah, yeah,

517
00:24:45,520 --> 00:24:48,639
Speaker 1: two years younger than Biden. He didn't like the Nazis

518
00:24:48,680 --> 00:24:50,960
Speaker 1: all that much. He signs the government over to Hitler. Eventually,

519
00:24:51,000 --> 00:24:55,760
Speaker 1: we'll get to that. By nineteen thirty, parliament is divided

520
00:24:55,800 --> 00:24:59,399
Speaker 1: as fuck. It keeps not getting anything done. It's deadlocked.

521
00:25:00,119 --> 00:25:03,359
Speaker 1: Hindenburg dissolves the parliament. There's new elections. They get dead locked.

522
00:25:03,359 --> 00:25:05,320
Speaker 1: He dissolves the parliament over and over and over again.

523
00:25:05,320 --> 00:25:09,880
Speaker 1: They just try again roll the dice. Slowly, right wing

524
00:25:09,920 --> 00:25:12,880
Speaker 1: parties get their shit together and they are claiming more

525
00:25:12,920 --> 00:25:16,800
Speaker 1: and more of parliament. In July nineteen thirty two, the

526
00:25:16,920 --> 00:25:20,119
Speaker 1: Nazis came out on top. They had thirty seven percent

527
00:25:20,119 --> 00:25:24,080
Speaker 1: of the vote. Traditionally, the president would appoint a chancellor

528
00:25:24,080 --> 00:25:26,959
Speaker 1: from whichever party had the most seats in parliament. Originally,

529
00:25:27,240 --> 00:25:29,720
Speaker 1: Hindenburg was like, I don't want to do that. Hitler sucks.

530
00:25:29,760 --> 00:25:30,800
Speaker 1: Look at his mustache.

531
00:25:31,240 --> 00:25:33,639
Speaker 2: Well, I think even Hindenberg considered them sort of just

532
00:25:33,760 --> 00:25:37,439
Speaker 2: like brutal, somewhat unintelligent street thugs. Yeah, it was like

533
00:25:37,480 --> 00:25:38,439
Speaker 2: the general vibe.

534
00:25:38,640 --> 00:25:42,919
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, because they were, you know, because he's like

535
00:25:43,240 --> 00:25:45,760
Speaker 1: an old fashioned right wing guy. He was like, let's

536
00:25:45,800 --> 00:25:47,840
Speaker 1: have law and order in an emperor or whatever.

537
00:25:47,920 --> 00:25:50,400
Speaker 2: You know. Yeah, no, totally. So they were just these

538
00:25:50,440 --> 00:25:54,280
Speaker 2: like street thugs that were what's the word unsophisticated would

539
00:25:54,280 --> 00:25:55,280
Speaker 2: probably be the way to put it.

540
00:25:55,560 --> 00:25:59,159
Speaker 1: Yeah, it makes sense. And it didn't help that Hitler

541
00:25:59,200 --> 00:26:02,040
Speaker 1: had actually just run against Hindenburg for president in the

542
00:26:02,119 --> 00:26:06,800
Speaker 1: nineteen thirty two election, but Hindenburg soundly beat him. But

543
00:26:06,880 --> 00:26:09,400
Speaker 1: the right wing of the country, all the industrialists and shit,

544
00:26:09,480 --> 00:26:12,320
Speaker 1: are like, come on, appoint our guy chancellor. What could

545
00:26:12,359 --> 00:26:14,359
Speaker 1: go wrong? Look at him, He's Hitler. Look at our

546
00:26:14,400 --> 00:26:18,399
Speaker 1: fake babyface. He's an artist, he's sensitive. More specifically, they

547
00:26:18,400 --> 00:26:21,359
Speaker 1: were like, we must stop this Communist menace. If we

548
00:26:21,359 --> 00:26:24,600
Speaker 1: don't put Hitler in charge, will be the USSR. And

549
00:26:25,440 --> 00:26:28,639
Speaker 1: this is not what would have happened in nineteen eighteen.

550
00:26:28,680 --> 00:26:32,080
Speaker 1: The Communist Party had some teeth at this point, they're

551
00:26:32,119 --> 00:26:35,159
Speaker 1: pulling in ten percent of the electorate, but they're like

552
00:26:35,240 --> 00:26:40,800
Speaker 1: committed to party politics. They're kind of boring. But on

553
00:26:40,920 --> 00:26:45,120
Speaker 1: January thirtieth, nineteen thirty three, Hindenburg appointed Adolf Hitler as

554
00:26:45,160 --> 00:26:49,280
Speaker 1: the Chancellor of Germany. And it's worth pointing out that

555
00:26:50,040 --> 00:26:52,320
Speaker 1: people always talk about people being like, well, Hitler was

556
00:26:52,359 --> 00:26:56,720
Speaker 1: democratically elected, and I know I'm being pedantic when I

557
00:26:56,720 --> 00:27:01,240
Speaker 1: say this, but he actually wasn't. There was like later

558
00:27:01,520 --> 00:27:04,480
Speaker 1: a thing where he forced people to vote for him.

559
00:27:04,560 --> 00:27:09,160
Speaker 1: After we'll get to it. His party was the majority

560
00:27:09,200 --> 00:27:13,239
Speaker 1: party and he was appointed chancellor. Carl, you seem no.

561
00:27:13,320 --> 00:27:14,840
Speaker 2: I mean, I was just thinking. I actually made that

562
00:27:14,840 --> 00:27:17,440
Speaker 2: statement early on as we were recording the podcast, and

563
00:27:17,960 --> 00:27:19,600
Speaker 2: you're right, I think I don't know if i'd use

564
00:27:19,600 --> 00:27:22,399
Speaker 2: the word pedantic. But he was appointed, but appointed through

565
00:27:22,440 --> 00:27:25,680
Speaker 2: a system in which his party held the great majority,

566
00:27:25,760 --> 00:27:28,920
Speaker 2: so therefore it was still common and therefore by electing

567
00:27:28,920 --> 00:27:31,840
Speaker 2: the party to their highest percentage, they sort of have

568
00:27:32,520 --> 00:27:35,440
Speaker 2: indirectly democratically elected Hitler. How's that?

569
00:27:35,520 --> 00:27:37,800
Speaker 1: I think that that's true. But it's also worth understanding

570
00:27:37,840 --> 00:27:40,919
Speaker 1: that it was a plurality, not a majority. Not to

571
00:27:40,960 --> 00:27:43,720
Speaker 1: be like the German people were great, right, like clearly

572
00:27:44,440 --> 00:27:47,120
Speaker 1: not one of the shining moments of democracy right here

573
00:27:47,240 --> 00:27:50,400
Speaker 1: is when it put Hitler in power and German people

574
00:27:50,480 --> 00:27:52,320
Speaker 1: didn't have a civil war over it.

575
00:27:52,840 --> 00:27:54,360
Speaker 2: Right, So what was the percentage you said they held?

576
00:27:54,359 --> 00:27:56,600
Speaker 2: They held like thirty six percent of parliament or something.

577
00:27:56,640 --> 00:27:59,400
Speaker 1: You said, yeah, thirty seven Yeah, So thirty seven.

578
00:27:59,160 --> 00:28:02,320
Speaker 2: Percent is still a minority of the majority of people.

579
00:28:02,720 --> 00:28:06,240
Speaker 2: So Hitler getting to chancellorship is still not the will

580
00:28:06,280 --> 00:28:08,919
Speaker 2: of the greatest amount of people, right, It's just the

581
00:28:08,960 --> 00:28:11,280
Speaker 2: greatest majority of people who voted, right.

582
00:28:12,000 --> 00:28:14,960
Speaker 3: Well, okay, I so is the only reason Hindenburgh gave

583
00:28:15,000 --> 00:28:17,520
Speaker 3: in an appointed him chancellor because of that growing numbers?

584
00:28:17,560 --> 00:28:17,639
Speaker 2: Like?

585
00:28:17,720 --> 00:28:19,359
Speaker 3: Is that the only reason?

586
00:28:19,920 --> 00:28:20,000
Speaker 1: Like?

587
00:28:20,000 --> 00:28:21,400
Speaker 3: Why did he change his mind on the guy?

588
00:28:22,320 --> 00:28:24,679
Speaker 1: I think it was the pressure from the industrialist convincing

589
00:28:24,760 --> 00:28:27,119
Speaker 1: him that the Communists needed to be stopped, that Hitler

590
00:28:27,160 --> 00:28:29,040
Speaker 1: was the best chance of stopping the communist menace. That

591
00:28:29,160 --> 00:28:32,280
Speaker 1: is my best read on it, but I have only

592
00:28:32,320 --> 00:28:37,800
Speaker 1: read maybe four paragraphs about that particular thing. You know, fair, No,

593
00:28:37,880 --> 00:28:42,360
Speaker 1: that makes sense. Yeah, So Hitler now in power. I

594
00:28:42,400 --> 00:28:44,680
Speaker 1: swear we're going to get to fun arsen and shit.

595
00:28:44,800 --> 00:28:47,600
Speaker 1: Although it goes really badly, but it's interesting at least

596
00:28:48,280 --> 00:28:51,480
Speaker 1: as part of Hitler's attempt to be appointed, he was like, Hey,

597
00:28:52,160 --> 00:28:55,000
Speaker 1: I'm only going to want two ministers from my party, right,

598
00:28:55,000 --> 00:28:56,840
Speaker 1: because like Hindenburg is like, oh, the Nazis gonna try

599
00:28:56,840 --> 00:28:58,560
Speaker 1: and take over the Council or whatever, which is like

600
00:28:58,600 --> 00:29:01,680
Speaker 1: the thing that advises the that isn't the parliament, you know.

601
00:29:02,680 --> 00:29:05,520
Speaker 1: All I want is the Interior minister. And then I

602
00:29:05,560 --> 00:29:08,440
Speaker 1: want this guy Goring, who is the president of the

603
00:29:08,560 --> 00:29:12,240
Speaker 1: Nazis in the Reichstag, like he's the main guy there.

604
00:29:12,680 --> 00:29:14,680
Speaker 1: But I want him to be a minister without portfolio,

605
00:29:14,760 --> 00:29:16,560
Speaker 1: and I want him in charge of the Prussian cops,

606
00:29:16,760 --> 00:29:18,800
Speaker 1: which is the majority of the cops in the country.

607
00:29:19,800 --> 00:29:22,200
Speaker 1: So Hitler gets to be Chancellor and he hits the

608
00:29:22,200 --> 00:29:25,560
Speaker 1: ground fucking running. This is a January nineteen thirty three.

609
00:29:26,320 --> 00:29:29,720
Speaker 1: He is hitlering write out the box. On February twenty second,

610
00:29:29,760 --> 00:29:33,200
Speaker 1: the Nazis created the essay the storm Troopers, made up

611
00:29:33,240 --> 00:29:36,280
Speaker 1: of fifty thousand Nazis, to be an auxiliary police force

612
00:29:36,360 --> 00:29:41,440
Speaker 1: under direct fascist control, and the new cabinet got the

613
00:29:41,440 --> 00:29:43,840
Speaker 1: president to dissolve the Reichstag again, and they were like,

614
00:29:43,880 --> 00:29:45,480
Speaker 1: all right, we're going to get this time. You're going

615
00:29:45,520 --> 00:29:47,360
Speaker 1: to dissolve the parliament. We're going to vote in to

616
00:29:47,400 --> 00:29:50,600
Speaker 1: write people. And so they call for an election on

617
00:29:50,680 --> 00:29:55,640
Speaker 1: March fifth, nineteen thirty three. Along the way back in

618
00:29:55,720 --> 00:29:59,200
Speaker 1: nineteen thirty two, the year before, non Nazi right wingers

619
00:29:59,800 --> 00:30:02,360
Speaker 1: had written this kind of Remember earlier I was saying,

620
00:30:02,360 --> 00:30:06,000
Speaker 1: there's an article forty eight that like, hey, you can

621
00:30:06,080 --> 00:30:08,480
Speaker 1: just be a dictator if you want. Thing mm hmm.

622
00:30:09,360 --> 00:30:11,600
Speaker 1: They also wrote this thing. It's kind of in a

623
00:30:11,640 --> 00:30:15,440
Speaker 1: case of emergency, break glass decree that is the decree

624
00:30:15,440 --> 00:30:17,520
Speaker 1: of the Reich President for the Protection of the People

625
00:30:17,560 --> 00:30:20,880
Speaker 1: and State. And it basically was like, hey, if the

626
00:30:20,920 --> 00:30:24,640
Speaker 1: communists try to have a revolution, here is the plan

627
00:30:24,720 --> 00:30:28,040
Speaker 1: by which we will declare martial law. We will centralize

628
00:30:28,040 --> 00:30:32,000
Speaker 1: all authority. We will suspend the constitution, we will suspend

629
00:30:32,040 --> 00:30:35,040
Speaker 1: free press, free assembly, free speech, all that kind of stuff.

630
00:30:35,280 --> 00:30:37,800
Speaker 1: It allows for up to three months of protective custody

631
00:30:37,800 --> 00:30:40,320
Speaker 1: of anyone suspected of doing crime. And so they just

632
00:30:40,360 --> 00:30:42,400
Speaker 1: like write this and then they like sit on it.

633
00:30:43,120 --> 00:30:45,320
Speaker 1: And the fun thing about giving more power to the

634
00:30:45,360 --> 00:30:47,640
Speaker 1: state is that even though this wasn't the Nazis who

635
00:30:47,640 --> 00:30:50,600
Speaker 1: wrote this, you're giving power to whoever comes after you too.

636
00:30:51,480 --> 00:30:53,600
Speaker 1: Like the Nazis, people.

637
00:30:53,360 --> 00:30:55,360
Speaker 2: Always forget about that the thing you do today you

638
00:30:55,400 --> 00:30:58,080
Speaker 2: think is cool, might have really bad ramifications later.

639
00:30:58,640 --> 00:31:02,240
Speaker 1: Yeah, let's make more laws with which to criminalize people.

640
00:31:02,360 --> 00:31:03,600
Speaker 1: That's going to go really well.

641
00:31:03,920 --> 00:31:06,080
Speaker 2: And even if your guys okay right now, the next

642
00:31:06,080 --> 00:31:06,920
Speaker 2: guy might not be.

643
00:31:07,160 --> 00:31:07,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly.

644
00:31:07,960 --> 00:31:09,920
Speaker 2: It's also interesting to note this is off a little

645
00:31:09,960 --> 00:31:12,120
Speaker 2: off topic, but when you talk about that act that

646
00:31:12,160 --> 00:31:14,600
Speaker 2: allowed them to like essentially centralize and control the state

647
00:31:14,600 --> 00:31:17,680
Speaker 2: in the case of an emergency, that similar law was

648
00:31:17,720 --> 00:31:20,560
Speaker 2: the well a law similar to it was what they

649
00:31:20,600 --> 00:31:23,440
Speaker 2: tried to use an Operation Valkyrie plot, uh huh to

650
00:31:23,520 --> 00:31:26,680
Speaker 2: overthrow Hitler almost exactly the same sort of thing. There

651
00:31:26,720 --> 00:31:28,840
Speaker 2: was this protection plan. They were going to say that

652
00:31:28,920 --> 00:31:31,560
Speaker 2: Hitler was dead, and therefore all power must be centralized,

653
00:31:31,680 --> 00:31:33,080
Speaker 2: and they were just going to take over the state

654
00:31:33,120 --> 00:31:35,760
Speaker 2: from within, very similar attempt. It just didn't work.

655
00:31:36,040 --> 00:31:37,600
Speaker 1: No, it makes sense. I mean, like, you know, you're

656
00:31:37,600 --> 00:31:39,800
Speaker 1: creating levers for the state and you're going to use

657
00:31:39,800 --> 00:31:42,640
Speaker 1: it all kinds of ways. There's like all sorts of

658
00:31:42,680 --> 00:31:45,040
Speaker 1: things later about how maybe some of these laws that

659
00:31:45,080 --> 00:31:47,480
Speaker 1: the Nazis did were unconstitutional that therefore is used to

660
00:31:47,480 --> 00:31:52,880
Speaker 1: like vacate people's or whatever. So the Nazis are like, Okay,

661
00:31:53,040 --> 00:31:56,600
Speaker 1: we're going to keep this little piece of possibility around, right,

662
00:31:56,640 --> 00:31:59,480
Speaker 1: We want this document around in case something happens, and

663
00:31:59,560 --> 00:32:02,080
Speaker 1: there are I need to act in case something happens.

664
00:32:02,880 --> 00:32:05,520
Speaker 1: One of their key electoral strategies is to summon up

665
00:32:05,520 --> 00:32:07,640
Speaker 1: the boogeyman of the Communist Party to claim that the

666
00:32:07,680 --> 00:32:10,760
Speaker 1: Communists are planning a revolution. As far as I can tell,

667
00:32:10,800 --> 00:32:13,400
Speaker 1: the Communists were not planning a revolution. There is this

668
00:32:13,480 --> 00:32:17,240
Speaker 1: thing where like no one tells the truth about communists,

669
00:32:17,800 --> 00:32:20,480
Speaker 1: The communists don't tell the truth about communists, the anti

670
00:32:20,560 --> 00:32:23,480
Speaker 1: communists don't tell the truth about communists. I read like

671
00:32:23,680 --> 00:32:26,840
Speaker 1: eight things being like the Communists were not planning a revolution,

672
00:32:27,280 --> 00:32:30,080
Speaker 1: but like some of those were on like Workerspaper dot

673
00:32:30,200 --> 00:32:33,520
Speaker 1: org or whatever, right, you know, and like, Okay, I

674
00:32:33,520 --> 00:32:35,240
Speaker 1: wouldn't be mad at them if they were. I mean,

675
00:32:35,440 --> 00:32:37,200
Speaker 1: I would be right because I hate tankies, but like,

676
00:32:38,040 --> 00:32:39,800
Speaker 1: you know, like they're better than not whatever.

677
00:32:39,840 --> 00:32:41,920
Speaker 2: Anyway, Yeah, it's like you almost have to take it

678
00:32:41,960 --> 00:32:42,560
Speaker 2: on vibes.

679
00:32:43,080 --> 00:32:46,880
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, And I agree with the overall consensus that

680
00:32:46,920 --> 00:32:49,000
Speaker 1: the vibes was that they were not planning a revolution.

681
00:32:49,240 --> 00:32:52,640
Speaker 1: And part of that is that on February twenty fourth,

682
00:32:52,760 --> 00:32:56,240
Speaker 1: nineteen thirty three, the Nazis raided the Communist Party headquarters anyhow,

683
00:32:56,400 --> 00:32:59,400
Speaker 1: in the middle of an election cycle, transparently trying to

684
00:32:59,440 --> 00:33:02,239
Speaker 1: interfere with the election. And two things happened that make

685
00:33:02,320 --> 00:33:05,280
Speaker 1: me think the Communist weren't planning a revolution. One, they

686
00:33:05,360 --> 00:33:08,880
Speaker 1: kind of rolled over and took it. Two, the Nazis

687
00:33:08,920 --> 00:33:11,120
Speaker 1: didn't find anything that was like, hey, we're planning a revolution,

688
00:33:12,040 --> 00:33:16,280
Speaker 1: you know. And then on February twenty seventh, three days later,

689
00:33:16,520 --> 00:33:19,280
Speaker 1: a Council Communist which is different than a Communist party

690
00:33:19,280 --> 00:33:21,720
Speaker 1: and oh we're going to get into it, set the

691
00:33:21,720 --> 00:33:26,240
Speaker 1: Reichstag on fire and everything changed pretty much for the worst.

692
00:33:27,360 --> 00:33:29,520
Speaker 1: And now we're going to back up and tell you

693
00:33:29,560 --> 00:33:32,600
Speaker 1: the story of a young Dutch council communist, this week's

694
00:33:32,680 --> 00:33:35,240
Speaker 1: cool person who did something that turned out very badly,

695
00:33:36,360 --> 00:33:41,000
Speaker 1: Marnus vonder Luba. And you know what Marnus vonder Luba liked.

696
00:33:41,680 --> 00:33:44,960
Speaker 1: He liked buying stuff. He did not he had no money,

697
00:33:45,040 --> 00:33:48,200
Speaker 1: His life was shit. He was a working class person

698
00:33:48,240 --> 00:33:50,560
Speaker 1: who suffered greatly on the job multiple times, who was

699
00:33:50,560 --> 00:33:52,360
Speaker 1: actually really cool and interesting, and he would have no

700
00:33:52,400 --> 00:33:54,680
Speaker 1: interest in what we're about to advertise. But here it

701
00:33:54,760 --> 00:34:04,920
Speaker 1: is anyway, and we're back.

702
00:34:05,640 --> 00:34:07,840
Speaker 2: I bet if vander Luba had some of that stuff

703
00:34:07,840 --> 00:34:10,040
Speaker 2: we just heard about, he wouldn't have been a communist.

704
00:34:10,320 --> 00:34:12,040
Speaker 1: I know he would have been like, I can just

705
00:34:12,120 --> 00:34:16,280
Speaker 1: do this instead. This is so much better than I mean. Okay,

706
00:34:16,760 --> 00:34:19,759
Speaker 1: if you're listening to this and you're not currently half

707
00:34:19,800 --> 00:34:23,200
Speaker 1: starving and disabled from workplace accidents, which might be you,

708
00:34:23,320 --> 00:34:26,360
Speaker 1: because that is people who are still alive and exist today,

709
00:34:26,960 --> 00:34:31,440
Speaker 1: then you had it better than Marnus. Marnas vonder Luba

710
00:34:32,080 --> 00:34:35,439
Speaker 1: was born on January thirteenth, nineteen eleven, in the city

711
00:34:35,440 --> 00:34:39,360
Speaker 1: of Leiden in the southern Netherlands. He was born to

712
00:34:39,400 --> 00:34:41,640
Speaker 1: a sort of classic working class family at the time

713
00:34:41,760 --> 00:34:44,320
Speaker 1: in that it was all fucked up. His father was

714
00:34:44,360 --> 00:34:47,399
Speaker 1: a traveling salesman who ditched the family pretty much right off,

715
00:34:47,440 --> 00:34:50,799
Speaker 1: like right after he was born. His mother worked hard

716
00:34:50,800 --> 00:34:53,359
Speaker 1: as fuck. She was already a divorced woman with six

717
00:34:53,480 --> 00:34:56,359
Speaker 1: kids before she had her little Marinus, so he has

718
00:34:56,400 --> 00:34:59,600
Speaker 1: got two full siblings and four half siblings I think,

719
00:35:00,800 --> 00:35:04,400
Speaker 1: and she worked running a little shop despite being an asthmatic.

720
00:35:04,680 --> 00:35:07,960
Speaker 1: With the aforementioned seven children and no husband and no money,

721
00:35:08,120 --> 00:35:12,280
Speaker 1: she's fucking impressive for a little while. She couldn't handle

722
00:35:12,280 --> 00:35:14,520
Speaker 1: the burden, and Marnus was placed in a boarding school

723
00:35:14,520 --> 00:35:17,160
Speaker 1: for poor kids and orphans. I think he gets back

724
00:35:17,160 --> 00:35:19,920
Speaker 1: out of that at some point. He did well in school.

725
00:35:21,200 --> 00:35:23,200
Speaker 1: His mother died when he was fucking ten years old,

726
00:35:23,440 --> 00:35:25,800
Speaker 1: and he immediately has to start caretaking his three younger

727
00:35:25,880 --> 00:35:28,839
Speaker 1: nieces who are also part of the picture. And by

728
00:35:28,840 --> 00:35:31,680
Speaker 1: the time he's fourteen or actually I think substantially younger

729
00:35:31,719 --> 00:35:33,520
Speaker 1: than that based on some of the other timing of

730
00:35:33,520 --> 00:35:37,680
Speaker 1: some other events. But people why be accurate when whatever

731
00:35:37,719 --> 00:35:39,800
Speaker 1: I cross reference like eight articles and they don't agree

732
00:35:39,800 --> 00:35:44,359
Speaker 1: with each other about dates. At least by fourteen, if

733
00:35:44,360 --> 00:35:47,400
Speaker 1: not younger, he is working to help his half sister

734
00:35:47,440 --> 00:35:51,560
Speaker 1: bring in money to support all the kids all the

735
00:35:51,600 --> 00:35:54,319
Speaker 1: while he's doing this. This man is impressive. This boy

736
00:35:54,400 --> 00:35:58,839
Speaker 1: is impressive. He keeps himself in school. He works as

737
00:35:58,840 --> 00:36:01,480
Speaker 1: an apprentice mason during the day and then takes evening

738
00:36:01,520 --> 00:36:04,160
Speaker 1: classes at night like a thirty year old would, except

739
00:36:04,160 --> 00:36:09,040
Speaker 1: he is fourteen years old and like whatever, and for

740
00:36:09,080 --> 00:36:12,360
Speaker 1: some weird reason he didn't like how the economy worked.

741
00:36:12,760 --> 00:36:16,120
Speaker 1: His fellow workers started teaching a Marxism, and soon enough

742
00:36:16,120 --> 00:36:17,920
Speaker 1: he's in this group called the Sewer, which is a

743
00:36:17,960 --> 00:36:22,120
Speaker 1: youth organization of the Dutch Communist Party. But he doesn't

744
00:36:22,520 --> 00:36:26,560
Speaker 1: like authority, he never did and he never will, so

745
00:36:27,280 --> 00:36:30,040
Speaker 1: he's not always going to sit easily in the Communist Party,

746
00:36:30,640 --> 00:36:33,279
Speaker 1: and he keeps teaching himself on his own. He goes

747
00:36:33,320 --> 00:36:36,680
Speaker 1: to the library. In addition to taking evening classes and

748
00:36:36,719 --> 00:36:39,640
Speaker 1: working all day and supporting this family when he's a child,

749
00:36:40,360 --> 00:36:42,719
Speaker 1: he also goes to the library and is like constantly

750
00:36:42,760 --> 00:36:46,040
Speaker 1: there and reading books like he's sixteen, reading Marx and

751
00:36:46,120 --> 00:36:47,160
Speaker 1: Henry Ford.

752
00:36:47,560 --> 00:36:51,520
Speaker 2: Like so you're saying he's pulling himself up by his bootstraps.

753
00:36:51,080 --> 00:36:51,640
Speaker 1: Yeah, kind of.

754
00:36:51,680 --> 00:36:52,120
Speaker 2: I mean, like.

755
00:36:53,760 --> 00:36:56,560
Speaker 1: He is not drowning the way that society wanted him

756
00:36:56,560 --> 00:36:57,359
Speaker 1: to you know.

757
00:36:57,600 --> 00:36:59,960
Speaker 2: Right, yeah, this guy should be destined for utter failure,

758
00:37:00,160 --> 00:37:01,720
Speaker 2: right yeah.

759
00:37:02,000 --> 00:37:05,000
Speaker 1: At some point while he's a young mason, like I

760
00:37:05,080 --> 00:37:06,920
Speaker 1: read that this happened when he was thirteen, and then

761
00:37:07,080 --> 00:37:09,360
Speaker 1: another thing was that he whatever you've already heard me

762
00:37:09,360 --> 00:37:11,959
Speaker 1: complain about this. At some point he is very young

763
00:37:12,360 --> 00:37:15,239
Speaker 1: and a group of fellow workers play a practical joke

764
00:37:15,280 --> 00:37:18,399
Speaker 1: on him. I think they were bullying him. They dump

765
00:37:18,400 --> 00:37:22,120
Speaker 1: a bucket on his head. Quicklime from the bucket gets

766
00:37:22,120 --> 00:37:24,640
Speaker 1: into his eyes. He has to go to the hospital.

767
00:37:24,920 --> 00:37:27,440
Speaker 1: He has left with thirty percent vision in his left eye.

768
00:37:28,120 --> 00:37:30,680
Speaker 1: What a fun prank a hah, we sure showed you.

769
00:37:31,400 --> 00:37:33,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, the worst form of the ice bucket challenge.

770
00:37:34,760 --> 00:37:38,600
Speaker 3: But also like calling a bullying a joke, like been there,

771
00:37:38,760 --> 00:37:39,040
Speaker 3: done that?

772
00:37:39,160 --> 00:37:39,680
Speaker 2: You know what I mean?

773
00:37:39,760 --> 00:37:40,719
Speaker 3: Like, oh, it's just a joke.

774
00:37:41,200 --> 00:37:44,200
Speaker 1: Uh No, they actually I think it's because these articles

775
00:37:44,200 --> 00:37:48,040
Speaker 1: are written in like the seventies, you know, they're like, ah,

776
00:37:48,200 --> 00:37:53,840
Speaker 1: so sad joshing around right exactly, yeah, just boys boys, yeah, yeah, exactly.

777
00:37:53,880 --> 00:37:56,520
Speaker 2: Yeah. A famous quote from Robert E. Lee about the Klan,

778
00:37:56,560 --> 00:37:58,120
Speaker 2: that's what he called the Klan. When the Klan was

779
00:37:58,160 --> 00:38:01,720
Speaker 2: first active, he was like, oh boys.

780
00:38:00,920 --> 00:38:04,640
Speaker 3: Yeah, are you serious? Yep, I had no idea.

781
00:38:04,280 --> 00:38:07,680
Speaker 1: And that's why boys should be a pol I mean, anyway,

782
00:38:09,520 --> 00:38:13,640
Speaker 1: I'm doing my part anyway. So oh my god, Mark,

783
00:38:13,840 --> 00:38:16,160
Speaker 1: thank you, thank you. That's my best joke. It just

784
00:38:16,160 --> 00:38:17,360
Speaker 1: wasn't written into my script.

785
00:38:17,800 --> 00:38:18,799
Speaker 3: That was the best one so far.

786
00:38:18,880 --> 00:38:21,719
Speaker 1: You're right, yeah. A few years later, so he's got

787
00:38:21,760 --> 00:38:23,960
Speaker 1: thirty percent vision in his left eye. A few years later,

788
00:38:24,000 --> 00:38:27,320
Speaker 1: he's sixteen years old. And when you hear like apprentice Mason,

789
00:38:27,520 --> 00:38:30,319
Speaker 1: whenever I hear apprentice, I'm like, oh, you know, he's

790
00:38:30,320 --> 00:38:32,400
Speaker 1: like there with like an old man who has a

791
00:38:32,400 --> 00:38:35,359
Speaker 1: beer and his like son, this is how you use

792
00:38:35,400 --> 00:38:40,240
Speaker 1: a trowel, right, Like, No, he's like fucking dangerously building

793
00:38:40,280 --> 00:38:43,319
Speaker 1: buildings and getting hurt and like being fucked over. When

794
00:38:43,320 --> 00:38:46,759
Speaker 1: he is sixteen years old, a job injury happens where

795
00:38:46,840 --> 00:38:50,520
Speaker 1: rubble drops into his eye, his other eye. He is

796
00:38:50,520 --> 00:38:53,719
Speaker 1: in the hospital for months and his right eye is

797
00:38:53,760 --> 00:38:56,840
Speaker 1: permanently damaged. At this point and for the rest of

798
00:38:56,840 --> 00:39:00,560
Speaker 1: his life, his vision isn't about where he can recognize

799
00:39:00,600 --> 00:39:03,359
Speaker 1: who someone is when they're about a meter away. And

800
00:39:03,400 --> 00:39:06,160
Speaker 1: so I mean I think that the word for that

801
00:39:06,239 --> 00:39:08,440
Speaker 1: is blind. But I'm not one hundred percent certain. A

802
00:39:08,440 --> 00:39:10,480
Speaker 1: lot of articles refer to it as half blind. He

803
00:39:10,560 --> 00:39:13,919
Speaker 1: might be like legally blind. Whatever. He is disabled, and

804
00:39:14,080 --> 00:39:17,600
Speaker 1: he keeps fucking going, partly because he has no money,

805
00:39:17,640 --> 00:39:20,960
Speaker 1: right and he has to. He gets some disability payments,

806
00:39:20,960 --> 00:39:23,320
Speaker 1: but it's not enough to support him or his siblings

807
00:39:23,320 --> 00:39:26,200
Speaker 1: and his nieces and shit, so he keeps working every

808
00:39:26,239 --> 00:39:28,640
Speaker 1: odd job he can get. He as a teenager, he

809
00:39:28,719 --> 00:39:31,600
Speaker 1: is a grocery clerk, a waiter, a sailor, and of

810
00:39:31,640 --> 00:39:35,160
Speaker 1: course a guy who sells potatoes in the street, all

811
00:39:35,160 --> 00:39:37,200
Speaker 1: while he's blind enough that he can only recognize people

812
00:39:37,200 --> 00:39:39,759
Speaker 1: a meter away. In his free time. I don't know

813
00:39:39,800 --> 00:39:41,959
Speaker 1: how I have his free time. He has two things

814
00:39:42,000 --> 00:39:43,520
Speaker 1: he does all the time in his free time. I

815
00:39:43,520 --> 00:39:46,560
Speaker 1: think he just doesn't sleep. He swims and is into sports.

816
00:39:46,800 --> 00:39:48,880
Speaker 1: It's like thing comes up where like there's this challenge

817
00:39:48,920 --> 00:39:50,680
Speaker 1: where if you swim the channel, which I think is

818
00:39:50,719 --> 00:39:54,040
Speaker 1: the channel between like England and the mainland or whatever,

819
00:39:54,760 --> 00:39:56,759
Speaker 1: the first dutch Man to do it is going to

820
00:39:56,800 --> 00:39:59,280
Speaker 1: get five thousand unit of money. That is a meaningless

821
00:39:59,320 --> 00:40:02,160
Speaker 1: thing to Margaret, probably guilders, but I don't know, because

822
00:40:02,160 --> 00:40:04,560
Speaker 1: I didn't write down and now I'm completely off my script,

823
00:40:04,560 --> 00:40:06,080
Speaker 1: so I'll just go back to my script. So he's

824
00:40:06,080 --> 00:40:07,600
Speaker 1: like into sports and he wants to go swim it.

825
00:40:07,640 --> 00:40:09,480
Speaker 1: But both years he's gonna do it, it's like the

826
00:40:10,120 --> 00:40:12,280
Speaker 1: weather's too dangerous and he's like, I'm gonna do it anyway,

827
00:40:12,320 --> 00:40:15,880
Speaker 1: and they're like, no, you're not allowed. We will not

828
00:40:15,920 --> 00:40:18,000
Speaker 1: give you the money if you go swim right now.

829
00:40:19,239 --> 00:40:21,600
Speaker 1: The other thing he does with is copious free time

830
00:40:21,719 --> 00:40:24,440
Speaker 1: is he is super active in communist groups, and the

831
00:40:24,480 --> 00:40:28,440
Speaker 1: cops fucking hate him. He is at every demonstration and strike.

832
00:40:28,600 --> 00:40:32,160
Speaker 1: He is supporting unemployed workers. He is constantly arguing with

833
00:40:32,200 --> 00:40:34,960
Speaker 1: the Communist Party because he doesn't actually like party politics

834
00:40:34,960 --> 00:40:38,279
Speaker 1: and he believes in democratic workplace, self management and direct action.

835
00:40:39,200 --> 00:40:41,680
Speaker 1: He has briefly the chairman for the local party because

836
00:40:41,680 --> 00:40:43,440
Speaker 1: he's like really active, and then the other guy goes

837
00:40:43,440 --> 00:40:47,040
Speaker 1: away for a while, and then he starts a radical

838
00:40:47,120 --> 00:40:50,200
Speaker 1: choir and there's like feeder and shit that he puts on.

839
00:40:50,960 --> 00:40:53,480
Speaker 1: He's fucking like twenty two or some shit, but he's

840
00:40:53,520 --> 00:40:55,719
Speaker 1: been an adult since he was like ten, so you know,

841
00:40:56,760 --> 00:40:59,120
Speaker 1: by nineteen twenty nine he has resigned from the party

842
00:40:59,160 --> 00:41:02,120
Speaker 1: four different times, and he keeps drifting towards another position,

843
00:41:02,640 --> 00:41:05,399
Speaker 1: keep teasing you with but I'm not gonna talk about yet.

844
00:41:05,440 --> 00:41:07,000
Speaker 1: I know you are at the edge of your seat,

845
00:41:07,040 --> 00:41:11,120
Speaker 1: wanting to hear what Margaret's to say about council communism.

846
00:41:11,160 --> 00:41:15,240
Speaker 1: He's a strong orator, but he's also mostly just strong.

847
00:41:16,160 --> 00:41:18,680
Speaker 1: He will do things like climb up lamp posts to

848
00:41:18,719 --> 00:41:20,919
Speaker 1: get a better vantage point with which to shout about

849
00:41:20,960 --> 00:41:25,240
Speaker 1: workers organization. Soapbox. Fuck a soapbox, I'm a lamp poster.

850
00:41:26,680 --> 00:41:28,359
Speaker 1: He's fucking cool. I really like this guy.

851
00:41:28,560 --> 00:41:31,080
Speaker 2: I mean, and he's doing this mostly blind. As you said,

852
00:41:31,080 --> 00:41:32,240
Speaker 2: it's it's pretty wild.

853
00:41:32,480 --> 00:41:35,360
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, anyone that the cops hate like, that's

854
00:41:35,520 --> 00:41:37,640
Speaker 3: that's my guy, you know, I know he's onto something.

855
00:41:37,960 --> 00:41:38,799
Speaker 1: Well, here we go.

856
00:41:38,920 --> 00:41:40,960
Speaker 2: That's a recurring theme, right, you look back in history

857
00:41:41,000 --> 00:41:43,040
Speaker 2: and if the cops hate the guy, there's probably something

858
00:41:43,080 --> 00:41:43,719
Speaker 2: cool going on.

859
00:41:43,920 --> 00:41:47,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, true, Yeah, totally. At one point, a cop tells

860
00:41:48,000 --> 00:41:50,560
Speaker 1: him that he can't sell communist newspapers in the street,

861
00:41:50,800 --> 00:41:52,560
Speaker 1: so he throws the cop through a window.

862
00:41:53,400 --> 00:41:57,520
Speaker 3: Wow, that's the sickest thing I've ever heard. That's great.

863
00:41:57,880 --> 00:42:00,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, the imbligation is like picks up and throw. But

864
00:42:00,640 --> 00:42:01,719
Speaker 1: who knows so.

865
00:42:01,719 --> 00:42:02,840
Speaker 3: He's really that strong.

866
00:42:03,160 --> 00:42:05,400
Speaker 1: He is, like his nickname is the name of some

867
00:42:05,520 --> 00:42:08,279
Speaker 1: like boxer that's around at the time. He's like he's

868
00:42:08,320 --> 00:42:12,520
Speaker 1: like heavy set and strong and like fucking works out constantly,

869
00:42:12,560 --> 00:42:15,080
Speaker 1: I think, and throws cops through windows for fun.

870
00:42:15,120 --> 00:42:18,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, there's some strong nestor mock no vibes here. It's

871
00:42:18,719 --> 00:42:22,359
Speaker 2: like gunfights over book clubs, cops through windows over no pamphlets, right,

872
00:42:22,440 --> 00:42:23,720
Speaker 2: really similar vibes, honestly.

873
00:42:23,960 --> 00:42:26,920
Speaker 1: Yeah. And he goes to jail for two weeks for

874
00:42:27,000 --> 00:42:29,200
Speaker 1: doing this. To be fair, if it was only a

875
00:42:29,200 --> 00:42:31,320
Speaker 1: two week crime in the United States, I think a

876
00:42:31,360 --> 00:42:33,160
Speaker 1: lot more cops would go through a lot more windows.

877
00:42:33,280 --> 00:42:37,480
Speaker 3: Oh in a heart beat, if I could throw anybody,

878
00:42:37,600 --> 00:42:38,960
Speaker 3: it would be a cop through window and I get

879
00:42:38,960 --> 00:42:39,600
Speaker 3: two weeks of jail.

880
00:42:39,880 --> 00:42:43,799
Speaker 1: Yeah, totally. I'm like I could do two weeks. Yeah. See,

881
00:42:43,800 --> 00:42:46,080
Speaker 1: I would just retire on that, right, I'd be like,

882
00:42:46,560 --> 00:42:49,120
Speaker 1: I just become a podcaster. I'd be like, oh, yeah,

883
00:42:49,160 --> 00:42:50,680
Speaker 1: welcome to cool people did cool stuff.

884
00:42:50,680 --> 00:42:51,279
Speaker 2: My name is MARYA.

885
00:42:51,400 --> 00:42:53,279
Speaker 1: Kilder. You might know me from having thrown a cop

886
00:42:53,320 --> 00:42:54,799
Speaker 1: through a window fifteen years ago.

887
00:42:55,320 --> 00:42:56,000
Speaker 3: That's all you need.

888
00:42:56,200 --> 00:43:00,720
Speaker 1: How I got this gravelly voice. Yeah, Meanwhile, he's starting

889
00:43:00,760 --> 00:43:02,440
Speaker 1: to realize he doesn't have much of a future in

890
00:43:02,440 --> 00:43:04,200
Speaker 1: the Netherlands because he keeps getting kicked out of the

891
00:43:04,200 --> 00:43:05,959
Speaker 1: party that he's part of. And he also the cops

892
00:43:06,000 --> 00:43:08,160
Speaker 1: keep putting him in jail for things, because I think

893
00:43:08,160 --> 00:43:09,800
Speaker 1: it must be some weird Dutch law where you're not

894
00:43:09,800 --> 00:43:11,879
Speaker 1: allowed to beat up cops, because that's not the only

895
00:43:11,960 --> 00:43:13,600
Speaker 1: time he does it. There's a bunch of times that

896
00:43:13,640 --> 00:43:15,600
Speaker 1: he's like in a brawl with cops and he goes

897
00:43:15,640 --> 00:43:16,040
Speaker 1: to jail.

898
00:43:16,440 --> 00:43:18,359
Speaker 3: I feel like it's a lot most places.

899
00:43:18,040 --> 00:43:21,479
Speaker 1: Though, No, huh, you're not allowed to assault Officers's weird.

900
00:43:22,440 --> 00:43:23,400
Speaker 1: We pay their salary.

901
00:43:23,680 --> 00:43:25,799
Speaker 2: I thought it was okay in Ohio or something. Yeah,

902
00:43:26,120 --> 00:43:26,800
Speaker 2: okay in Ohio.

903
00:43:27,160 --> 00:43:29,440
Speaker 1: Oh probably if you're listening to this in Ohio. Wait, no,

904
00:43:30,160 --> 00:43:36,120
Speaker 1: never mind, it's himself now, all right. So, even though

905
00:43:36,160 --> 00:43:39,000
Speaker 1: he's like starting to get disillusioned with communism and socialism

906
00:43:39,000 --> 00:43:41,160
Speaker 1: as like a or he loves socialism, he's starting to

907
00:43:41,160 --> 00:43:45,200
Speaker 1: get disillusioned with like party communism. He really wants to

908
00:43:45,200 --> 00:43:47,560
Speaker 1: go to Russia. It's the country of socialism. And he's

909
00:43:47,600 --> 00:43:49,680
Speaker 1: also the other thing that he's like really concerned with

910
00:43:49,760 --> 00:43:52,279
Speaker 1: is he's concerned about the rising tide of fascism in

911
00:43:52,320 --> 00:43:56,680
Speaker 1: neighboring Germany. So in April nineteen thirty one this part

912
00:43:56,800 --> 00:43:58,799
Speaker 1: I have read two accounts of, and neither one makes

913
00:43:58,800 --> 00:44:01,279
Speaker 1: sense and both poorly translate. He tried to get his

914
00:44:01,360 --> 00:44:03,520
Speaker 1: local communists to help him get a bunch of propaganda

915
00:44:03,560 --> 00:44:06,360
Speaker 1: postcards that he could sell to fund his trip, and

916
00:44:06,400 --> 00:44:08,520
Speaker 1: they were like, nah, we're good, We're not gonna help

917
00:44:08,520 --> 00:44:10,880
Speaker 1: you do that. So he is done with the party forever.

918
00:44:11,160 --> 00:44:13,719
Speaker 1: He's like, you're not gonna fucking help me make postcards.

919
00:44:13,760 --> 00:44:14,120
Speaker 2: Fuck you.

920
00:44:14,680 --> 00:44:17,520
Speaker 1: That seems to be the final straw here. I've read

921
00:44:17,520 --> 00:44:19,640
Speaker 1: that it's propaganda postcards. I've also read that it's like

922
00:44:19,719 --> 00:44:21,680
Speaker 1: photo postcards, and so it might be that he was

923
00:44:21,680 --> 00:44:23,960
Speaker 1: like trying to get equipment and maybe he's like selling

924
00:44:24,000 --> 00:44:28,440
Speaker 1: pictures of like himself. I don't know either way. You know,

925
00:44:28,520 --> 00:44:30,960
Speaker 1: he's a poor vagabond who wants to do whatever he

926
00:44:31,000 --> 00:44:31,960
Speaker 1: can do to get some money.

927
00:44:32,440 --> 00:44:33,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, I know, I just crossed my mind. It was

928
00:44:33,960 --> 00:44:35,080
Speaker 2: early OnlyFans.

929
00:44:35,560 --> 00:44:37,799
Speaker 1: Yeah, No, I mean I genuinely think that that as

930
00:44:37,800 --> 00:44:39,479
Speaker 1: a possibility here, I am.

931
00:44:39,400 --> 00:44:41,520
Speaker 2: Not certain sure, Yeah, we don't know.

932
00:44:41,760 --> 00:44:44,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, And there's a lot of like we're gonna talk

933
00:44:44,000 --> 00:44:45,960
Speaker 1: about his sexuality and whether or not I did sex work

934
00:44:46,040 --> 00:44:49,040
Speaker 1: later on. So he's never again a member of the

935
00:44:49,040 --> 00:44:51,520
Speaker 1: Communist Party, and he leaves and he goes to Berlin

936
00:44:51,640 --> 00:44:53,560
Speaker 1: and he tries to get a visa to Russia and

937
00:44:53,600 --> 00:44:55,160
Speaker 1: they're like, oh, that costs a bunch of money, and

938
00:44:55,200 --> 00:44:57,560
Speaker 1: he's like, wait, really, but I haven't any money, and

939
00:44:57,600 --> 00:45:00,560
Speaker 1: they're like, sucks to be you. The whole thing, he's

940
00:45:00,560 --> 00:45:03,719
Speaker 1: just like walking. I think he's also hitchhiking, but he's

941
00:45:03,760 --> 00:45:05,640
Speaker 1: just like he walks everywhere. At one point, he like

942
00:45:05,640 --> 00:45:07,279
Speaker 1: sets off. He's like, I'm gonna even walk to China.

943
00:45:07,320 --> 00:45:08,759
Speaker 1: I've always wanted to go to China, and I don't

944
00:45:08,760 --> 00:45:10,279
Speaker 1: know else to get there. I'm poor, so I guess

945
00:45:10,280 --> 00:45:13,719
Speaker 1: I'll just walk there, you know. And so he can't

946
00:45:13,760 --> 00:45:15,400
Speaker 1: go to Russia. He can't get a visa, so he

947
00:45:15,440 --> 00:45:17,480
Speaker 1: turns around and like walks back to the Netherlands again.

948
00:45:17,520 --> 00:45:19,960
Speaker 1: I think he hit shikes. He gets arrested at the

949
00:45:19,960 --> 00:45:24,000
Speaker 1: border for illegally selling Communist postcards and he spends ten

950
00:45:24,080 --> 00:45:28,319
Speaker 1: days in jail. He's not above a little bit of

951
00:45:28,360 --> 00:45:31,600
Speaker 1: pettiness and a little bit of vandalism. At one point,

952
00:45:31,960 --> 00:45:34,279
Speaker 1: in I think Leiden. He goes to the Bureau of

953
00:45:34,320 --> 00:45:36,880
Speaker 1: Aid to the Unemployed, like a social workplace, you know,

954
00:45:37,480 --> 00:45:40,520
Speaker 1: and he's like, hey, can I get funds to start

955
00:45:40,560 --> 00:45:44,319
Speaker 1: a library for workers in the unemployed and they're like, no,

956
00:45:44,400 --> 00:45:46,480
Speaker 1: we don't do social projects. And so he was like,

957
00:45:46,480 --> 00:45:48,880
Speaker 1: I'm gonna break your fucking windows. I don't know if

958
00:45:48,880 --> 00:45:51,919
Speaker 1: he said it, but he did it. And they send

959
00:45:52,080 --> 00:45:54,680
Speaker 1: him to three months in prison for this, and he

960
00:45:54,840 --> 00:45:58,279
Speaker 1: was like, what if instead of going to prison, I

961
00:45:58,440 --> 00:46:02,760
Speaker 1: just go bagabond to Europe. So he skips town. Doesn't

962
00:46:02,760 --> 00:46:04,400
Speaker 1: want to go to prison for some weird reason.

963
00:46:04,640 --> 00:46:06,480
Speaker 2: So these are windows he did not break with a

964
00:46:06,520 --> 00:46:08,319
Speaker 2: cop because he only would have gotten two weeks for that.

965
00:46:08,480 --> 00:46:11,279
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, no, totally yeah right right yeah yeah, rock

966
00:46:11,320 --> 00:46:14,040
Speaker 1: through a window, like you might hurt the rock. You know,

967
00:46:14,239 --> 00:46:15,360
Speaker 1: people care about rocks.

968
00:46:16,280 --> 00:46:20,080
Speaker 3: I will say. His responses to things are pure gold, like.

969
00:46:20,200 --> 00:46:22,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, I love it. And he's on team always carry

970
00:46:22,560 --> 00:46:25,640
Speaker 1: a boulder, throw that boulder through the window.

971
00:46:25,760 --> 00:46:28,640
Speaker 3: Classic strong guy. Shit will he was carrying a boulder.

972
00:46:29,040 --> 00:46:33,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, And so he kind of vagabounds around through Europe.

973
00:46:33,400 --> 00:46:35,680
Speaker 1: He sleeps where he can. At one point he tries

974
00:46:35,719 --> 00:46:37,360
Speaker 1: to convince a sex worker to quit or drob to

975
00:46:37,360 --> 00:46:40,359
Speaker 1: marry him, and she's like, no, I'm good, I want

976
00:46:40,360 --> 00:46:41,719
Speaker 1: to know more about that part.

977
00:46:42,719 --> 00:46:46,120
Speaker 2: That's a movie. That's the premise for a movie right there. Yeah, movie.

978
00:46:46,440 --> 00:46:48,759
Speaker 1: I know. His whole life would be a movie if

979
00:46:48,760 --> 00:46:51,799
Speaker 1: it weren't for the way he got done dirty by

980
00:46:51,920 --> 00:46:55,399
Speaker 1: every single political actor in Europe a couple of years

981
00:46:55,400 --> 00:46:59,200
Speaker 1: from now. Because he gets done dirty and he's like

982
00:46:59,239 --> 00:47:02,000
Speaker 1: all right, and he keeps wandering and then he throws

983
00:47:02,080 --> 00:47:04,239
Speaker 1: down and strikes everywhere he goes. He's like wandering around

984
00:47:04,280 --> 00:47:08,000
Speaker 1: Budapest and shit, and he's doing seasonal labor everywhere he

985
00:47:08,000 --> 00:47:11,400
Speaker 1: can go, and he's sleeping on, you know, in barns

986
00:47:11,440 --> 00:47:14,480
Speaker 1: and shit, I think. And then he's arrested for trying

987
00:47:14,480 --> 00:47:17,879
Speaker 1: to sneak into Russia from Poland. The Polish police catch

988
00:47:17,920 --> 00:47:19,759
Speaker 1: him and they send him back to the Netherlands. After

989
00:47:19,760 --> 00:47:21,920
Speaker 1: he spends like two weeks in jail again, and then

990
00:47:21,920 --> 00:47:23,279
Speaker 1: they send him back to the Netherlands and they're like,

991
00:47:23,320 --> 00:47:26,120
Speaker 1: you got three months for throwing rocks through windows, coming buddy,

992
00:47:26,960 --> 00:47:28,680
Speaker 1: And so he goes to jail for like three months.

993
00:47:28,719 --> 00:47:30,759
Speaker 1: At some point, I think while he's in jail, he

994
00:47:30,760 --> 00:47:34,279
Speaker 1: goes on hunger strike and then and he publishes a

995
00:47:34,320 --> 00:47:38,719
Speaker 1: paper for the unemployed after he gets out, and just

996
00:47:38,760 --> 00:47:42,480
Speaker 1: to make him a single complete cool people bingo card

997
00:47:42,880 --> 00:47:46,359
Speaker 1: all on his own are a tinerant potato salesman who

998
00:47:46,360 --> 00:47:50,640
Speaker 1: has escaped imprisonment, gets to merculosis at the age of

999
00:47:50,680 --> 00:47:54,799
Speaker 1: twenty four in his eyes and at this point he

1000
00:47:54,880 --> 00:47:58,040
Speaker 1: is like, fairly certain he's going to go completely blind.

1001
00:47:58,400 --> 00:48:01,319
Speaker 2: His eyes did something really wrong past life, I know.

1002
00:48:02,040 --> 00:48:04,440
Speaker 1: Yeah, And it's at this point he actually has a

1003
00:48:04,480 --> 00:48:07,600
Speaker 1: conversation with one of his friends, a communist friend of his.

1004
00:48:07,840 --> 00:48:10,359
Speaker 1: I think he is a council communist, where he's saying

1005
00:48:10,400 --> 00:48:12,960
Speaker 1: something like, hey, I don't understand why people would kill themselves.

1006
00:48:12,960 --> 00:48:16,239
Speaker 1: He should just kill Hitler instead, you know. And then

1007
00:48:16,239 --> 00:48:18,440
Speaker 1: his friend is like, nah, I blow up the Reichstog,

1008
00:48:19,600 --> 00:48:23,040
Speaker 1: and uh, that probably sat in him at some point,

1009
00:48:23,200 --> 00:48:26,799
Speaker 1: you know, But he's left the Communist party. What he

1010
00:48:26,840 --> 00:48:29,400
Speaker 1: does after that, where he finds his political home, and

1011
00:48:29,440 --> 00:48:31,880
Speaker 1: how he tried to start a civil war to beat Hitler,

1012
00:48:32,360 --> 00:48:35,800
Speaker 1: we'll talk about on Wednesday. So you're gonna have to

1013
00:48:35,840 --> 00:48:38,240
Speaker 1: wait two whole days to hear Margaret talk about counsel.

1014
00:48:38,280 --> 00:48:40,000
Speaker 1: I know you all care more about the arson. But

1015
00:48:40,080 --> 00:48:43,840
Speaker 1: before you can hear Margaret talk about council communism, that's Martis.

1016
00:48:43,880 --> 00:48:44,879
Speaker 1: What do y'all think of him so far?

1017
00:48:45,960 --> 00:48:46,879
Speaker 3: I love him?

1018
00:48:47,440 --> 00:48:49,520
Speaker 1: I know, I know, I love him. Let's all look

1019
00:48:49,520 --> 00:48:50,279
Speaker 1: at a picture of him.

1020
00:48:50,560 --> 00:48:52,080
Speaker 3: Oh, I would love to see a photo of him.

1021
00:48:52,400 --> 00:48:55,279
Speaker 3: It just makes me sad that like someone, I mean

1022
00:48:55,320 --> 00:48:57,560
Speaker 3: like people, people have hard lives, and it just makes

1023
00:48:57,600 --> 00:48:58,200
Speaker 3: me depressed.

1024
00:48:58,440 --> 00:48:59,239
Speaker 1: I know, I don't know.

1025
00:48:59,440 --> 00:49:01,759
Speaker 2: Well, what's sad about this is like exactly where this

1026
00:49:01,800 --> 00:49:04,200
Speaker 2: episode is, or at least part of this episode's discussing is

1027
00:49:04,280 --> 00:49:06,640
Speaker 2: like the basic how many people have never heard of

1028
00:49:06,719 --> 00:49:08,680
Speaker 2: his name? Right? They might even not even know about

1029
00:49:08,680 --> 00:49:11,440
Speaker 2: the rex Dog fire. But even someone who is pretty

1030
00:49:11,440 --> 00:49:15,600
Speaker 2: well versed in this, I didn't know all these details

1031
00:49:15,640 --> 00:49:18,920
Speaker 2: about this man. I knew that he was essentially accused

1032
00:49:19,000 --> 00:49:21,880
Speaker 2: of the false flag operation at the Reichs Dog and

1033
00:49:21,880 --> 00:49:25,160
Speaker 2: that he started a fire, and that bad things happened

1034
00:49:25,160 --> 00:49:26,960
Speaker 2: to him as a result. But that's all I knew, right,

1035
00:49:27,000 --> 00:49:30,360
Speaker 2: like this depth of how and why he became the

1036
00:49:30,360 --> 00:49:33,720
Speaker 2: person he became, and frankly, the obvious reasons people become

1037
00:49:33,760 --> 00:49:35,760
Speaker 2: the people they are for so many things that happened

1038
00:49:35,760 --> 00:49:38,640
Speaker 2: to them and a society that doesn't care isn't part

1039
00:49:38,640 --> 00:49:41,160
Speaker 2: of the general narrative because of the way it was

1040
00:49:41,280 --> 00:49:42,520
Speaker 2: narrated after the fact.

1041
00:49:43,000 --> 00:49:46,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, no, and if you hear his actual life, you

1042
00:49:46,680 --> 00:49:49,480
Speaker 1: kind of can't believe he was a Nazi agent. And

1043
00:49:49,840 --> 00:49:52,880
Speaker 1: we'll get into why. I feel very confident about saying

1044
00:49:52,920 --> 00:49:55,560
Speaker 1: that more in the next episode. But Shrank, can you

1045
00:49:55,600 --> 00:49:58,120
Speaker 1: see did the screen sharing work? Can you see Marnus?

1046
00:49:58,200 --> 00:50:02,320
Speaker 3: Yes, I see Marnus that I say his name probably

1047
00:50:02,440 --> 00:50:04,640
Speaker 3: is Yeah, and I also see the day he dies

1048
00:50:04,719 --> 00:50:05,839
Speaker 3: a spoiler alert for me.

1049
00:50:06,040 --> 00:50:09,000
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, uh huh. But he wasn't getting out of

1050
00:50:09,000 --> 00:50:09,640
Speaker 1: this one alive.

1051
00:50:10,040 --> 00:50:11,840
Speaker 3: No, it's that makes me sad.

1052
00:50:12,200 --> 00:50:14,839
Speaker 1: But he lived a very full life for how old

1053
00:50:14,840 --> 00:50:17,000
Speaker 1: he was when he died. But yeah, but yeah, no,

1054
00:50:17,080 --> 00:50:20,640
Speaker 1: he's a handsome and broad man with a I am

1055
00:50:20,680 --> 00:50:22,960
Speaker 1: a criminal and fine with it look on his face

1056
00:50:23,000 --> 00:50:25,720
Speaker 1: in his mug shot, it does look very strong.

1057
00:50:26,080 --> 00:50:29,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, he does have that look. I must say, like,

1058
00:50:29,640 --> 00:50:32,280
Speaker 2: and I bet you like not getting out of this alive.

1059
00:50:32,600 --> 00:50:35,400
Speaker 2: None of us are technically, but like my guess is

1060
00:50:35,440 --> 00:50:37,960
Speaker 2: considering like things like, well, I someone shouldn't commit suicide,

1061
00:50:37,960 --> 00:50:39,800
Speaker 2: they should just kill Hitler. That kind of stuff. I

1062
00:50:39,800 --> 00:50:41,680
Speaker 2: don't think he ever thought he was going to anyway,

1063
00:50:41,680 --> 00:50:42,360
Speaker 2: that's my guess.

1064
00:50:42,440 --> 00:50:46,000
Speaker 1: No, I don't think he did either. We'll talk more

1065
00:50:46,000 --> 00:50:49,520
Speaker 1: about his motivations and shit on Wednesday, but first we're

1066
00:50:49,560 --> 00:50:52,640
Speaker 1: going to talk about you, Carl and the stuff you do.

1067
00:50:53,320 --> 00:50:54,080
Speaker 1: Oh cool.

1068
00:50:54,320 --> 00:50:57,120
Speaker 2: Thanks. Yeah. So, as we talked about very basically at

1069
00:50:57,160 --> 00:51:00,439
Speaker 2: the beginning, I run a media effort sometimes I refer

1070
00:51:00,480 --> 00:51:03,279
Speaker 2: to as a YouTuber, but it's more than that. In

1071
00:51:03,440 --> 00:51:06,719
Speaker 2: range TV. You can find my website inrange dot tv,

1072
00:51:06,800 --> 00:51:10,360
Speaker 2: and I'm distributing my content about multiple different distribution points

1073
00:51:10,360 --> 00:51:13,960
Speaker 2: because you should and decentralize everything as much as you can,

1074
00:51:14,040 --> 00:51:17,759
Speaker 2: because YouTube do anyways. And we also run events that

1075
00:51:17,800 --> 00:51:20,680
Speaker 2: we call brutality matches, which are an actually inclusive space

1076
00:51:20,719 --> 00:51:23,440
Speaker 2: for people who are interested in acquiring better skills with

1077
00:51:23,480 --> 00:51:25,560
Speaker 2: firearms or just building community or having a good time

1078
00:51:25,600 --> 00:51:28,560
Speaker 2: amongst people they know they're going to be safe around. Ironically,

1079
00:51:28,560 --> 00:51:29,840
Speaker 2: even though it's a shooting event.

1080
00:51:30,120 --> 00:51:34,000
Speaker 4: Can call brutality, Yeah, call brutality, but I know the

1081
00:51:34,040 --> 00:51:37,160
Speaker 4: irony of things, right, But like, I run those as well,

1082
00:51:37,280 --> 00:51:40,280
Speaker 4: and so it's really a multi tiered effort and hopefully

1083
00:51:40,280 --> 00:51:43,080
Speaker 4: bringing things to the table about not just guns but the.

1084
00:51:43,080 --> 00:51:48,239
Speaker 2: Sociological impact of those items in our societies, whether for

1085
00:51:48,320 --> 00:51:50,840
Speaker 2: good or for bad, and try to take that concept

1086
00:51:50,880 --> 00:51:53,280
Speaker 2: and talk about it and understand it in broader scope

1087
00:51:53,280 --> 00:51:56,960
Speaker 2: than just nuts bolts and like trajectories or ballistics.

1088
00:51:57,400 --> 00:52:01,160
Speaker 1: Hell yeah, hell yeah. I have a book. It's called

1089
00:52:01,160 --> 00:52:04,120
Speaker 1: The Sapling Cage. It is amazing. It's the best thing

1090
00:52:04,160 --> 00:52:07,120
Speaker 1: that's ever been written by anyone, or at least by me.

1091
00:52:07,560 --> 00:52:09,160
Speaker 1: And I've written a bunch of stuff and it's the

1092
00:52:09,160 --> 00:52:12,200
Speaker 1: best thing I've written, so Matt, obviously, it's very good.

1093
00:52:12,520 --> 00:52:14,680
Speaker 1: It comes out September twenty fourth from Feminist Press. Is

1094
00:52:14,680 --> 00:52:17,160
Speaker 1: currently available for pre order in the United States. You

1095
00:52:17,160 --> 00:52:19,400
Speaker 1: can pre order it from Firestorm Books. I mean, you

1096
00:52:19,400 --> 00:52:20,880
Speaker 1: can pre order from pretty much anywhere, but if you

1097
00:52:20,920 --> 00:52:24,160
Speaker 1: get from Firestorm Books, you get it signed by me.

1098
00:52:24,480 --> 00:52:27,200
Speaker 1: I'm going to have to sign many book plates in

1099
00:52:27,239 --> 00:52:29,360
Speaker 1: the very near future. My publisher was like, do you

1100
00:52:29,360 --> 00:52:31,000
Speaker 1: want to put a cap on the number of book

1101
00:52:31,040 --> 00:52:33,120
Speaker 1: plates that you have to sign? And I was like, no,

1102
00:52:33,680 --> 00:52:37,239
Speaker 1: what a good problem to have. And we'll see how

1103
00:52:37,239 --> 00:52:40,360
Speaker 1: I feel about this decision in approximately three weeks. But

1104
00:52:41,200 --> 00:52:43,920
Speaker 1: it's called The Sapling Cage, out September twenty fourth from

1105
00:52:43,920 --> 00:52:46,000
Speaker 1: feminist press Sherean you got anything you want.

1106
00:52:45,920 --> 00:52:50,040
Speaker 3: To plug, not particularly go buy or pre order markets book.

1107
00:52:50,160 --> 00:52:51,680
Speaker 3: I want everyone to do that, so.

1108
00:52:52,360 --> 00:52:55,040
Speaker 1: Go do it, okay, and go listen to Shreen's episodes

1109
00:52:55,040 --> 00:52:56,319
Speaker 1: If it could happen here if you want to keep

1110
00:52:56,360 --> 00:52:58,680
Speaker 1: up with things that are actually currently happening instead of

1111
00:52:58,719 --> 00:53:00,400
Speaker 1: just things that happened hundred years ago that I make

1112
00:53:00,520 --> 00:53:02,760
Speaker 1: vague references to how they relate to the current events.

1113
00:53:03,360 --> 00:53:11,239
Speaker 1: All Right, see you all Wednesday. Cool People Who Did

1114
00:53:11,239 --> 00:53:13,600
Speaker 1: Cool Stuff is a production of cool Zone Media.

1115
00:53:13,920 --> 00:53:16,800
Speaker 3: For more podcasts from cool Zone Media, visit our website

1116
00:53:16,880 --> 00:53:20,600
Speaker 3: Coolzonemedia dot com, or check us out on the iHeartRadio app,

1117
00:53:20,600 --> 00:53:23,440
Speaker 3: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.