WEBVTT - Work In Progress: Shannon Watts 0:00:00.400 --> 0:00:15.200 Hey, everyone, it's Sophia. Welcome to Work in Progress. Hello, 0:00:15.240 --> 0:00:18.040 and welcome back to Work in Progress friends. Today we 0:00:18.120 --> 0:00:21.520 are joined by an old friend of the podcast who 0:00:21.640 --> 0:00:25.480 is absolutely one of the most inspiring humans that I know, 0:00:26.200 --> 0:00:29.639 none other than Shannon Watts, the founder of Mom's Demand Action, 0:00:30.160 --> 0:00:35.120 which is the nation's largest grassroots group fighting against gun violence. 0:00:35.360 --> 0:00:41.680 She has gathered over ten million women from disparate geographies, backgrounds, 0:00:41.840 --> 0:00:46.680 political parties. She is known as a summoner of women's audacity, 0:00:47.240 --> 0:00:50.720 and she used Mom's Demand Action not only to fight 0:00:50.800 --> 0:00:53.480 for the future of our families and our children, but 0:00:53.520 --> 0:00:57.840 also as a field experiment for mobilizing women. She has 0:00:57.920 --> 0:01:01.680 figured out what fires us up up and keeps us engaged. 0:01:02.240 --> 0:01:05.400 And though she passed the baton of leadership at Mom's 0:01:05.440 --> 0:01:08.640 Demand Action to another leader so she could take a 0:01:08.720 --> 0:01:11.760 much deserved year off after working seven days a week, 0:01:12.080 --> 0:01:14.559 almost twenty four hours a day for eleven straight years 0:01:14.560 --> 0:01:17.600 on this, did she take a sabbatical. No, she decided 0:01:17.600 --> 0:01:20.440 to write a book. Shannon is here to discuss her 0:01:20.520 --> 0:01:24.199 new book, Fired Up, How to turn your Spark into 0:01:24.280 --> 0:01:28.760 a flame and come Alive at any age. I can't 0:01:28.800 --> 0:01:32.640 wait to hear about the lessons that she's learned, the 0:01:33.080 --> 0:01:36.800 gems that she's gleaned, and the way that she sees 0:01:37.160 --> 0:01:42.640 women as a bonfire when they gather together, work for community, 0:01:43.160 --> 0:01:46.560 and figure out what truly makes them happy. Let's dive 0:01:46.640 --> 0:02:00.840 in with Shannon Watts. Hi, my dear, and welcome back 0:02:00.920 --> 0:02:01.520 to the show. 0:02:01.640 --> 0:02:02.920 I'm so thrilled to be here with you. 0:02:03.040 --> 0:02:05.840 I'm just so excited we're here in person too. I 0:02:05.840 --> 0:02:09.320 feel like you and I have to so often when 0:02:09.320 --> 0:02:11.840 we want to be together figure out what city we're 0:02:11.880 --> 0:02:14.480 going to overlap in during what month of the year, 0:02:14.639 --> 0:02:17.000 and so to get you, I want to squeeze you. 0:02:17.000 --> 0:02:19.000 You're just far in a way that I can squeeze me. 0:02:19.200 --> 0:02:21.920 I will. I'll squeeze you again after we're done. I 0:02:21.960 --> 0:02:25.040 know this is a really loaded question these days, But 0:02:25.120 --> 0:02:25.680 how are you? 0:02:27.200 --> 0:02:30.400 It is a loaded question. You know, I'm good. I think, 0:02:31.280 --> 0:02:35.359 as the famous activist has said, Mariam Cambay, that hope 0:02:35.400 --> 0:02:39.519 it is a discipline that's always been my mindset, that 0:02:40.000 --> 0:02:43.839 it is very easy to be cynical and therefore disengaged. 0:02:44.720 --> 0:02:47.040 If you actually practice hope, if you look around for 0:02:47.120 --> 0:02:50.760 the things that are hopeful, yeah, then you can stay 0:02:50.760 --> 0:02:53.760 engaged and you can take breaks, but come back to 0:02:53.800 --> 0:02:56.440 the work. And I think the next four years is 0:02:56.480 --> 0:02:58.600 going to be a discipline, a practice. 0:02:58.840 --> 0:03:03.760 Yeah, I love that. I think it's a thing I've 0:03:03.800 --> 0:03:07.560 been I don't want to say meditating on but really 0:03:08.720 --> 0:03:11.560 thinking a lot about and trying to do so consciously 0:03:11.720 --> 0:03:14.720 is what it means to hold so many things to 0:03:14.760 --> 0:03:17.320 be true at the same time, especially when some of 0:03:17.360 --> 0:03:22.440 those things feel oppositional to each other. Things are wonderful 0:03:22.480 --> 0:03:25.880 and terrible. There is joy, there is pain. You know 0:03:26.360 --> 0:03:29.400 how you can be grateful for your own life inside 0:03:29.400 --> 0:03:31.680 the four walls of your home and also really know 0:03:31.760 --> 0:03:36.440 that the world around you needs help and figure out 0:03:36.440 --> 0:03:40.800 how to give to your point the hope, to both 0:03:40.840 --> 0:03:42.640 the joy and the hurting. 0:03:43.240 --> 0:03:46.400 Yeah, joy, I think is a really important word. When 0:03:46.400 --> 0:03:48.640 I started Moms to Be in Action, we came together 0:03:48.720 --> 0:03:51.760 each year, all the volunteer leadership and it was a 0:03:51.800 --> 0:03:55.840 weekend for training and lifting up the stories of survivors 0:03:55.960 --> 0:03:59.560 and talking about legislation. You know, it was tough stuff, 0:04:00.600 --> 0:04:03.080 and we decided to add a dance party at the 0:04:03.160 --> 0:04:05.920 end of the weekend, and there was a lot of pushback, 0:04:06.440 --> 0:04:09.200 particularly from non survivors, who said like, is this appropriate? 0:04:10.240 --> 0:04:14.560 Are we being unserious? It ended up being the most 0:04:14.600 --> 0:04:17.239 popular part of that weekend. The lights went off, people 0:04:17.279 --> 0:04:20.360 took up their shoes, they got all sweaty, they danced, 0:04:20.440 --> 0:04:25.640 and they had joy. What is the point of activism 0:04:25.800 --> 0:04:28.880 or life without joy? And so to imagine that we're 0:04:28.880 --> 0:04:30.680 going to get through this next four years just bare 0:04:30.720 --> 0:04:32.880 knuckling it and still be able to be activists and 0:04:33.600 --> 0:04:36.080 it's just not possible. We have to look for joy 0:04:36.320 --> 0:04:38.840 and that comes in community, absolutely. 0:04:38.880 --> 0:04:40.839 And I think that the idea that you have to 0:04:40.880 --> 0:04:44.800 bare knuckle it or you're unseerious, particularly for women, is 0:04:44.839 --> 0:04:49.960 such a vestige of patriarchy, you know, this thing that 0:04:50.960 --> 0:04:53.839 we're meant to suffer. It's why so many women get 0:04:53.960 --> 0:04:57.159 so burned out, yes, because we're told our joy makes 0:04:57.200 --> 0:05:03.239 us unseerious, unprofessional. And I love the way that, even 0:05:03.279 --> 0:05:06.680 in this break that you've taken from Mom's demand, you know, 0:05:06.720 --> 0:05:10.920 you're stepping back from running the organization, you've really leaned 0:05:10.960 --> 0:05:18.200 into your activism as a woman, having frank conversations about 0:05:18.200 --> 0:05:23.160 burnout and joy and aging and life. And it's been 0:05:23.240 --> 0:05:27.280 really beautiful to watch you put this sort of energy 0:05:27.320 --> 0:05:30.360 and specificity that you poured into an organization and out 0:05:30.360 --> 0:05:33.520 into the world for so long into you, and then 0:05:34.080 --> 0:05:36.119 by seeing you do it, I think we all feel 0:05:36.120 --> 0:05:37.280 we have permission to do it. 0:05:38.040 --> 0:05:41.280 That means a lot to me. I think what I 0:05:41.320 --> 0:05:45.640 realized in creating Mom's dem in Action, which was not 0:05:45.680 --> 0:05:49.360 only the largest women led nonprofit in the nation with 0:05:49.920 --> 0:05:53.560 ten million supporters, but it also became the largest real 0:05:53.600 --> 0:05:58.560 life laboratory for what empowers women, what makes them come alive. 0:05:58.920 --> 0:06:01.440 I saw this over and over again, and you were 0:06:01.480 --> 0:06:05.120 just talking about women and suffering. What I saw so 0:06:05.240 --> 0:06:08.080 many times and even in my own life, is that 0:06:08.400 --> 0:06:11.800 women are taught to fulfill their obligations and men are 0:06:11.839 --> 0:06:15.360 taught to follow their desires. Yes, and what would our 0:06:15.400 --> 0:06:17.880 lives be like if the only question we asked ourselves 0:06:18.080 --> 0:06:19.200 was what do we want? 0:06:20.680 --> 0:06:22.720 I love that you said that, because it is the 0:06:22.760 --> 0:06:27.680 emotional version of what happens to women versus men around money. 0:06:28.320 --> 0:06:32.479 If men are taught to chase and fulfill their desires, 0:06:32.560 --> 0:06:36.080 they are taught to seek and be poured in to 0:06:36.160 --> 0:06:39.360 pour into themselves. If women are taught to fulfill their obligations, 0:06:39.600 --> 0:06:41.760 they're taught to give and give and give and give 0:06:41.800 --> 0:06:45.320 and give to others. And one of the things that 0:06:45.400 --> 0:06:48.080 was the most arresting to me really starting to work 0:06:48.120 --> 0:06:51.520 on gender equity in terms of finance, in terms of 0:06:51.560 --> 0:06:54.320 access to capital. The work Nia and I do at 0:06:54.320 --> 0:06:58.039 the First Women's Bank is the data around how when 0:06:58.080 --> 0:07:01.919 women begin to accrue any version of personal wealth it 0:07:01.960 --> 0:07:05.280 can be five thousand dollars or five million dollars, they 0:07:05.360 --> 0:07:09.640 are approached to become philanthropic donors. And when men begin 0:07:09.680 --> 0:07:13.880 accruing any version of personal wealth, they get approached to 0:07:14.040 --> 0:07:18.200 invest it. So they get approached to go out and 0:07:18.240 --> 0:07:21.400 fulfill and pour into and make more. And women are 0:07:21.440 --> 0:07:23.560 asked to give and give and give and give and gift. 0:07:24.360 --> 0:07:26.440 It's so interesting you bring this up because I talk 0:07:26.480 --> 0:07:29.400 about this, which is in many ways the bucket of 0:07:29.560 --> 0:07:33.960 the passion tex Because women are passionate about something, because 0:07:34.000 --> 0:07:36.600 they care about something, they're expected to do it for free. 0:07:37.480 --> 0:07:40.720 I am guilty of this me too. I worked at 0:07:40.720 --> 0:07:42.680 Mom's Demand Action. I say worked. I was a full 0:07:42.680 --> 0:07:46.200 time volunteer for eleven years. I do not take a dime. Yeah, 0:07:46.240 --> 0:07:48.880 all the money I made from my book from speeches 0:07:48.960 --> 0:07:51.280 all got funneled back into the organization. And I write 0:07:51.280 --> 0:07:53.400 about this in the book that we're going to talk about. 0:07:53.920 --> 0:07:58.720 And I thought I was being really noble, and maybe 0:07:58.840 --> 0:08:01.920 I was actually being a martin. I thought I was 0:08:01.920 --> 0:08:04.280 a good girl for doing this, and that no one 0:08:04.320 --> 0:08:06.120 could point a finger at me and say, oh, look 0:08:06.120 --> 0:08:09.040 at that woman. She's enriching herself because of you know, 0:08:09.160 --> 0:08:12.160 gun violence or all the different reasons I had for 0:08:12.200 --> 0:08:14.080 why I shouldn't take a salary, and yet all of 0:08:14.080 --> 0:08:16.800 the other, mostly men, who were working in the organization 0:08:16.880 --> 0:08:20.160 did and it set an example for our volunteers, right 0:08:20.240 --> 0:08:22.560 chapter leaders. It's all volunteer work, and so I think 0:08:22.600 --> 0:08:26.600 there's a really important conversation to be had about why 0:08:26.640 --> 0:08:29.720 do we expect women to put their blood, sweat and 0:08:29.720 --> 0:08:33.880 tears into things and not be compensated and that isn't 0:08:33.880 --> 0:08:34.440 the case for men. 0:08:35.000 --> 0:08:39.520 Yeah, it's so surreal. You know, we talked about this 0:08:39.520 --> 0:08:42.120 because you were one of my first guests in twenty nineteen, 0:08:42.160 --> 0:08:44.200 So thank you so much for having a longtime friend 0:08:44.280 --> 0:08:48.120 of the podcast. I know that I asked you then 0:08:49.320 --> 0:08:50.760 what it would be like if you could spend some 0:08:50.800 --> 0:08:53.920 time with your younger self, if you would see yourself 0:08:54.679 --> 0:08:56.920 in her, if you think she would be like I 0:08:56.960 --> 0:09:00.520 get how I turned into that woman. What does it 0:09:00.600 --> 0:09:05.200 feel like now, you know, almost six years later, after 0:09:05.240 --> 0:09:07.840 you've been through so many life shifts, when you think 0:09:07.880 --> 0:09:11.520 about maybe more than one of the younger versions of 0:09:11.559 --> 0:09:15.880 yourself that you carry with the woman you are today, 0:09:15.960 --> 0:09:19.000 what would have changed? What's the advice you might give 0:09:19.520 --> 0:09:23.559 yourself in college or yourself in middle school from this seat, 0:09:23.600 --> 0:09:25.120 at this table, on this day. 0:09:25.520 --> 0:09:28.480 Oh, I love this question. So when we met for 0:09:28.559 --> 0:09:32.120 this podcast, you know, five years ago, I was in 0:09:32.120 --> 0:09:34.160 a very different place. You know, I still had young 0:09:34.240 --> 0:09:38.000 kids or youngish kids who were teens, and I was 0:09:38.120 --> 0:09:40.680 kind of figuring out who I was as an activist 0:09:40.720 --> 0:09:44.560 and what was next. And here I am now, a 0:09:44.600 --> 0:09:46.800 fifty four year old woman who's gone through menopause, who 0:09:46.800 --> 0:09:50.599 has grown children. And what is really interesting to me 0:09:50.880 --> 0:09:53.880 is that for I interviewed over seventy women for this book, 0:09:54.920 --> 0:09:58.320 and when I asked them what they were worried their deathbed, 0:09:58.360 --> 0:10:03.280 regret would be almost all of them, maybe one or two, 0:10:03.600 --> 0:10:07.559 Almost all of them said to me, I will regret 0:10:07.760 --> 0:10:10.600 not having spent more time with my children while pursuing 0:10:10.679 --> 0:10:15.200 what was important to me, which is tragic because I 0:10:15.240 --> 0:10:16.800 don't think there is a man who would have the 0:10:16.840 --> 0:10:19.760 same answer. And now that I'm on the other side 0:10:19.760 --> 0:10:22.280 of that fifty four years old, my youngest is twenty four, 0:10:24.120 --> 0:10:26.600 I can promise you that my kids have not once 0:10:26.640 --> 0:10:29.640 said to me you missed the soccer game in two 0:10:29.679 --> 0:10:33.200 thousand and two, or you didn't come to the fifth 0:10:33.320 --> 0:10:36.280 showing of my Peter Pan play. What they say is, 0:10:36.400 --> 0:10:38.480 we are so incredibly proud of you. We are so 0:10:38.559 --> 0:10:41.400 grateful you took us along on your activism journey. You 0:10:41.480 --> 0:10:44.559 gave us permission to pursue what is important to us. 0:10:45.440 --> 0:10:48.160 I think it's really important for women to remember that 0:10:48.240 --> 0:10:51.959 they are human beings before and after their children, and 0:10:52.120 --> 0:10:53.400 that you don't want to get to the end of 0:10:53.440 --> 0:10:56.000 your life and feel like you didn't burn. You want 0:10:56.080 --> 0:10:57.800 to have lived a life that is fulfilling to you, 0:10:57.880 --> 0:11:00.240 and that doesn't make you a bad parent. And so 0:11:00.280 --> 0:11:02.400 that's who I am right now, trying to tell all 0:11:02.440 --> 0:11:05.400 the women who are worried about that, who are fulfilling 0:11:05.400 --> 0:11:09.160 their obligations instead of wondering what their desires are, that 0:11:09.200 --> 0:11:10.120 you can do all of it. 0:11:11.400 --> 0:11:14.520 And I think it's important to realize not only to 0:11:14.720 --> 0:11:18.000 you as an individual outside of your children, your marriage, 0:11:18.040 --> 0:11:24.079 your career deserve it, but that you model it for 0:11:24.160 --> 0:11:27.280 your kids. Yes, you know. Two of the most profound 0:11:28.720 --> 0:11:31.439 parenting lessons I've been given in the last few weeks. 0:11:32.040 --> 0:11:34.920 One was on this show and one was at our 0:11:34.960 --> 0:11:38.040 home for Easter weekend with some friends. And the person 0:11:38.040 --> 0:11:40.240 who came on the show, what an insane sentence, like 0:11:40.600 --> 0:11:43.280 we've done some really cool stuff. You know you and 0:11:43.320 --> 0:11:44.960 I I know you have these things where you go. 0:11:45.040 --> 0:11:46.680 I can't believe what I'm about to say out loud. 0:11:47.000 --> 0:11:52.360 When Michelle Obama was on the show two weeks ago. 0:11:50.760 --> 0:11:53.240 I would just open every show with that, right be like, just. 0:11:53.200 --> 0:11:56.680 Engage you missited she was here. She said something to 0:11:56.720 --> 0:12:01.120 me when I asked her about, you know, this empty 0:12:01.160 --> 0:12:04.439 nest phase which people talk about like it's a bad thing, 0:12:04.480 --> 0:12:06.120 And I'm like, you have like a freedom nest. 0:12:06.480 --> 0:12:09.360 You taught them to fly, they flew. What are you 0:12:09.400 --> 0:12:10.880 doing in your big nest? 0:12:10.960 --> 0:12:13.520 Now? You know, we're laughing about some things. And she 0:12:13.559 --> 0:12:16.920 said that it would be really impossible to talk about 0:12:16.920 --> 0:12:19.520 the ways that she learned to mother without lessons from 0:12:19.520 --> 0:12:22.520 her own mother, and how her mother said to her 0:12:22.559 --> 0:12:27.080 her whole life, I'm not raising babies, I'm raising adults 0:12:28.080 --> 0:12:33.240 and empowered her and her brother to feel like they 0:12:33.280 --> 0:12:36.120 could have agency, to feel like they were in control 0:12:36.679 --> 0:12:40.360 of things, you know, to learn lessons and know that 0:12:40.400 --> 0:12:45.199 they were pursuing their adult nests. And then my friend 0:12:45.400 --> 0:12:48.800 Genevieve this weekend said, the best thing you can do, 0:12:49.040 --> 0:12:53.240 especially for your daughters, is to live a full life 0:12:53.240 --> 0:12:55.760 as a woman in front of them. Yes, And so 0:12:55.760 --> 0:12:58.120 she was talking about her six year old and how 0:12:58.559 --> 0:13:00.800 she makes sure she meditates some of her daughter. She 0:13:00.880 --> 0:13:02.920 makes sure to move her body in front of her daughter. 0:13:03.360 --> 0:13:06.920 She makes sure to go over her calendar for the 0:13:07.000 --> 0:13:10.559 day the night before in front of her daughter, so 0:13:10.600 --> 0:13:14.560 her daughter sees her having executive meetings, understands it. On 0:13:14.600 --> 0:13:16.560 a Tuesday night, she has a business dinner, but she'll 0:13:16.559 --> 0:13:19.000 see her when she gets home. And on Wednesday night 0:13:19.000 --> 0:13:21.920 they'll be home together and they'll cook. And she talked 0:13:21.920 --> 0:13:24.640 about the balance because she wants her daughter to be 0:13:24.720 --> 0:13:28.160 able to do exactly what you're discussing and to always 0:13:28.200 --> 0:13:30.200 know that she can not to feel like she's starting 0:13:30.200 --> 0:13:33.160 to reclaim her time in her mid forties or in 0:13:33.200 --> 0:13:36.600 her mid fifties or in her mid sixties. Event, and 0:13:37.679 --> 0:13:42.160 it's such a generational shift because, and I don't say 0:13:42.160 --> 0:13:45.800 it critically, my mom made her whole life about me 0:13:45.920 --> 0:13:49.760 and my life, and it was a really jarring transition 0:13:49.960 --> 0:13:53.400 for her to then have me leave to go to college. 0:13:53.920 --> 0:13:56.319 I was going off to learn something, and when I left, 0:13:56.360 --> 0:13:59.080 she had to learn a whole new thing too. And 0:13:59.120 --> 0:14:00.679 we talk a lot of about out how in our 0:14:00.720 --> 0:14:06.160 adulthood together we found a different way of being. And 0:14:06.240 --> 0:14:09.920 I just, I don't know. I think it's really profound 0:14:10.600 --> 0:14:13.400 what you're talking about and what you're helping encourage other 0:14:13.440 --> 0:14:16.400 women to do, because maybe our generation gets to be 0:14:16.400 --> 0:14:18.319 the one that helps shift it for our kids. 0:14:18.760 --> 0:14:21.440 What you're talking about is leaving a legacy, and I 0:14:21.440 --> 0:14:23.360 don't think we ask women a lot what they want 0:14:23.400 --> 0:14:25.240 their legacy to be. We think of legacy as your 0:14:25.280 --> 0:14:29.440 name on a hospital or a huge endowment or a foundation, 0:14:30.040 --> 0:14:32.560 but it's not. It's simply knowing that you lived a 0:14:32.560 --> 0:14:35.720 life that is true to you. And what you're talking 0:14:35.760 --> 0:14:40.000 about is the second half of life, which my mother's 0:14:40.000 --> 0:14:43.800 generation was not expected to have. You turned forty forty five, 0:14:43.880 --> 0:14:45.760 and you were sort of invisible, and you went off 0:14:45.800 --> 0:14:48.000 and did whatever until you know the end of your 0:14:48.040 --> 0:14:51.200 life that isn't true anymore. I'm fifty four. I feel 0:14:51.200 --> 0:14:52.240 like I'm just getting started. 0:14:52.400 --> 0:14:55.320 Well, also, look at your face. You have perfect skin, 0:14:56.160 --> 0:14:59.560 enviable hair like and it goes back to that thing 0:14:59.560 --> 0:15:01.920 where women and are supposed to be serious or they're 0:15:02.000 --> 0:15:05.280 just girly. Yes, I'm like, no way, I'm coming in 0:15:05.320 --> 0:15:07.760 with the hair out and the outfit on. I know 0:15:07.960 --> 0:15:11.520 all the points of this policy. We're arguing, and we're 0:15:11.520 --> 0:15:13.520 going to go lobby in DC and figure out it. 0:15:13.800 --> 0:15:16.520 We can do it all. Yes, I just think we 0:15:16.600 --> 0:15:21.560 have to give ourselves permission to actually do what we want. 0:15:21.960 --> 0:15:25.600 And to have the courage right and to ask yourself 0:15:25.640 --> 0:15:28.320 to check in regularly at all stages of your life. 0:15:28.800 --> 0:15:31.440 What am I doing? Is this fulfilling to me? Am 0:15:31.520 --> 0:15:33.440 I leaving anything on the table? You know? And I 0:15:33.480 --> 0:15:34.960 don't want to get to the end of my life 0:15:34.960 --> 0:15:37.000 and feel like I haven't burned. I mean that's the 0:15:37.040 --> 0:15:38.480 whole That's the whole thing. 0:15:38.680 --> 0:15:41.000 Okay. So can I ask you, because you use that 0:15:41.040 --> 0:15:43.520 phrase a lot and for people at home, what do 0:15:43.560 --> 0:15:46.440 you mean by burned? You want to feel like you 0:15:46.520 --> 0:15:50.800 haven't burned? Yes? How do you How did you select 0:15:50.880 --> 0:15:53.320 that word? And what's the ethos for you. 0:15:53.760 --> 0:15:56.200 So the metaphor for the book came up because I 0:15:56.280 --> 0:15:58.320 was talking about I was at the home of an 0:15:58.360 --> 0:16:01.120 author who was helping me figure out my book after 0:16:01.320 --> 0:16:03.720 Maria Striver made the generous offer of writing about what 0:16:03.760 --> 0:16:05.440 I'd learned about women, which is sort of you know 0:16:05.480 --> 0:16:08.720 a lot. How do you boil that down? And this woman, 0:16:08.880 --> 0:16:11.920 this author, said to me, you're very fiery, like that 0:16:12.080 --> 0:16:13.840 is your personality, that is who you are. And so 0:16:13.960 --> 0:16:16.800 fire became the metaphor of the book. And when I 0:16:16.800 --> 0:16:19.640 started to think about what is living on fire, it 0:16:19.800 --> 0:16:23.120 is it is the ability to see things clearly, two 0:16:23.160 --> 0:16:26.680 specific things. What is limiting you and what is calling you? 0:16:27.520 --> 0:16:29.680 And there is a very specific formula for that that 0:16:29.720 --> 0:16:32.640 I learned in my life, but that I saw women 0:16:32.720 --> 0:16:35.160 come into Mom's men action and replicate over and over 0:16:35.200 --> 0:16:39.000 and over again. And that is what are your abilities? 0:16:39.280 --> 0:16:42.480 What are your values? And what are your desires? Because 0:16:42.520 --> 0:16:45.960 when those three things come together, you are burning. You 0:16:46.080 --> 0:16:49.680 are creating a fire in your life. And your life 0:16:49.760 --> 0:16:52.080 is a series of fires. It's not just one thing. 0:16:52.080 --> 0:16:53.840 It's not this. You know, sometimes we're sold this idea 0:16:53.840 --> 0:16:56.080 about purpose, as if we're only here for one thing, 0:16:56.080 --> 0:16:58.080 and if we don't figure out what that is, we've somehow, 0:16:58.160 --> 0:17:00.400 you know, are not living a life that is true 0:17:00.400 --> 0:17:03.040 to us. That's not true. You know, after Mom's de 0:17:03.080 --> 0:17:06.440 man action was over and for me, I stepped away 0:17:06.600 --> 0:17:10.000 in twenty twenty three, I thought, who am I without 0:17:10.040 --> 0:17:13.119 Mom's de man action? This has become my identity. And 0:17:13.200 --> 0:17:17.320 yet I started another fire. I wrote a book, I 0:17:17.359 --> 0:17:20.200 became a surrogate for Kamala Harris. You know, after this, 0:17:20.280 --> 0:17:21.959 there are more things that I want to do, and 0:17:22.000 --> 0:17:25.199 I will continue to implement that formula in order to 0:17:25.200 --> 0:17:27.639 make those things happen. And I want every woman to 0:17:27.640 --> 0:17:31.000 try this formula right now. Out in the zeitgeist, there's 0:17:31.080 --> 0:17:34.480 so much about what what are women in midlife doing? 0:17:34.520 --> 0:17:37.560 What are older women doing? Not a lot of how 0:17:38.800 --> 0:17:42.439 I want to show women, how how do you get 0:17:42.560 --> 0:17:44.360 to where these other women are that you're learning about, 0:17:44.400 --> 0:17:45.280 because you can do it too. 0:17:46.800 --> 0:17:49.240 I love that We'll be back in just a minute 0:17:49.320 --> 0:17:58.440 after a few words from our favorite sponsors. To your point, 0:17:58.520 --> 0:18:02.600 you know, I I think this idea, even when we 0:18:02.640 --> 0:18:06.520 talk about midlife, when we talk about older women, all 0:18:06.600 --> 0:18:12.520 of the terminology has been used to kind of shame us, 0:18:12.760 --> 0:18:15.200 even you know, you hear those things in society like, oh, well, 0:18:15.200 --> 0:18:17.639 men just get better looking with age and women just age, 0:18:17.680 --> 0:18:20.120 And it's like again, I look around at our group 0:18:20.119 --> 0:18:22.879 of friends, I'm like, I actually think we've never looked better. 0:18:23.400 --> 0:18:25.560 I think I'm way cuter than I was in my twenties. 0:18:25.680 --> 0:18:28.439 Early odds fashion was very questionable and horrible. I had 0:18:28.480 --> 0:18:32.800 a very bad haircut. We are well also same Yeah 0:18:32.840 --> 0:18:35.120 those thank god there were no iPhones. Then those pictures 0:18:35.119 --> 0:18:39.720 are buried and locked away forever. I overplucked my eyebrows 0:18:39.760 --> 0:18:43.240 for a while. I mean, just not good. And I'm 0:18:43.280 --> 0:18:50.679 excited about this fiery woman kind of iconography because what 0:18:50.760 --> 0:18:56.600 I've realized in doing this myself is we only grow 0:18:56.640 --> 0:18:59.800 in power and purpose. And I think when you have 0:18:59.840 --> 0:19:04.080 the courage to reinvent yourself or to say I'm not 0:19:04.119 --> 0:19:06.159 having a good time at this party, I'm leaving and 0:19:06.200 --> 0:19:10.479 I'm going to plan another, it can be so jarring 0:19:10.560 --> 0:19:13.240 for people because they're not used to seeing us choose ourselves. 0:19:13.320 --> 0:19:16.639 I experienced that going through a divorce. I've watched women 0:19:17.280 --> 0:19:20.280 other friends of mine experience it in that way. Leaving careers, 0:19:20.400 --> 0:19:23.720 changing careers, moving to another country, you know, whatever, it 0:19:23.800 --> 0:19:29.879 might be women choosing themselves seems like it freaks people out. 0:19:30.119 --> 0:19:35.560 So when you think about how you began to focus 0:19:35.600 --> 0:19:38.440 on this and I want to hear that Maria Shreve 0:19:38.440 --> 0:19:41.440 her phone call story. But how you began to say, Okay, 0:19:41.440 --> 0:19:44.400 I'm going to interview all these women about how they 0:19:46.400 --> 0:19:50.080 burst into flame in like the most beautiful way. How 0:19:50.080 --> 0:19:51.840 did you even really know where to start or were 0:19:51.840 --> 0:19:54.879 you Also? Do you think the questions came from you 0:19:55.080 --> 0:19:57.680 saying I'm doing this and I want to know who 0:19:57.680 --> 0:20:00.760 else is doing this? Sometimes from when I think I'm 0:20:00.760 --> 0:20:04.320 going to do something terrifying or requires so much courage, 0:20:04.720 --> 0:20:07.600 it's really helpful for me to know other people doing it. Yes, 0:20:07.720 --> 0:20:11.200 like my best friend in the world and I literally 0:20:11.240 --> 0:20:14.920 got We got engaged and then married and then divorced 0:20:14.960 --> 0:20:18.040 in the same timeline together and we were like, wow, 0:20:18.080 --> 0:20:19.840 do we just learn lessons like the hard way? 0:20:20.000 --> 0:20:21.880 Or can we only do things together? 0:20:22.760 --> 0:20:24.240 Maybe we should have gone on a trip. 0:20:24.400 --> 0:20:27.160 Would have been so much cheaper than this life. 0:20:27.119 --> 0:20:31.800 Lesson, you know, But there is something about having someone 0:20:31.840 --> 0:20:35.959 you love model that kind of courage for you, you know, 0:20:36.240 --> 0:20:39.800 make legal recommendations for you, teach you how to go 0:20:39.840 --> 0:20:42.960 get a job, or have a baby, or whatever it is. 0:20:43.720 --> 0:20:48.040 So do you think the book came from you seeking 0:20:48.080 --> 0:20:53.880 out other women doing the next stage of life? Fire building? Oh? 0:20:53.960 --> 0:20:56.399 Absolutely, you know. I start with my story, and I 0:20:56.480 --> 0:21:00.159 had this experience. I lived a very me life, I 0:21:00.160 --> 0:21:04.200 call it until I was in my forties because I 0:21:04.280 --> 0:21:06.040 married right out of college. My parents were going through 0:21:06.080 --> 0:21:09.040 a horrible divorce, and so I think I was seeking 0:21:09.040 --> 0:21:12.720 out solace of my college boyfriend. I got pregnant three 0:21:12.720 --> 0:21:15.080 months later. I got pregnant three months after that baby 0:21:15.119 --> 0:21:16.879 was born. By the time I was twenty nine, I 0:21:16.880 --> 0:21:19.800 had three children. I was married to someone I wouldn't 0:21:19.800 --> 0:21:21.920 have married had I waited until I was after thirty 0:21:22.040 --> 0:21:25.040 years old. I was in a job I didn't like. 0:21:25.080 --> 0:21:27.119 I wanted to be an investigative journalist and I was 0:21:27.200 --> 0:21:30.280 doing public relations. And I found myself one day in 0:21:30.320 --> 0:21:34.080 the emergency room absolutely covered head to toe and ezema 0:21:34.119 --> 0:21:36.800 in every orifice, on my eyelids, on my ears. I mean, 0:21:36.920 --> 0:21:41.280 They're horrific. I couldn't sleep, I was miserable. I was suffering. 0:21:41.960 --> 0:21:44.359 And I tell the story of being in that office 0:21:44.400 --> 0:21:46.520 and the doctor really connecting with me, and I just 0:21:46.560 --> 0:21:49.800 had a breakdown. And I realized I was at a crossroads. 0:21:50.040 --> 0:21:50.240 Right. 0:21:50.320 --> 0:21:52.280 I could look at my life and the mistakes I'd 0:21:52.320 --> 0:21:54.480 made and make different choices going forward, or I could 0:21:54.520 --> 0:21:58.320 continue to live this life. And it wasn't easy to 0:21:58.640 --> 0:22:01.480 leave a marriage and leave my career and start all 0:22:01.520 --> 0:22:05.320 over again. And I'm so glad I did, because I 0:22:05.320 --> 0:22:07.840 would never have started Mom's de man action. I would 0:22:07.920 --> 0:22:11.439 never be where I am now. And so I wanted 0:22:11.440 --> 0:22:13.680 to talk to other women who had had those experiences. 0:22:13.720 --> 0:22:16.480 And I tell so many stories because I think stories 0:22:16.520 --> 0:22:18.760