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Speaker 1: Doing another one of our long form podcasts here. The

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Speaker 1: Armstrong and Getty Show is a radio show heard on

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Speaker 1: the West Coast with Jack Armstrong and Joe Getty. But

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Speaker 1: we have these guests on all the time where we

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Speaker 1: think we'd like to talk to them for a longer

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Speaker 1: period of time than you get in commercial radio. So

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Speaker 1: let's do it with Mike lyon CBS News Military Analysts

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Speaker 1: since February of oh three, What is your current title?

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Speaker 1: I'm a retired Army major. I'm a CBS Military analyst, um.

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Speaker 1: And I'm actually going to be a fellow at the

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Speaker 1: Modern War Institute at West Point this coming so I'm

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Speaker 1: really excited about that that hopefully help them with some

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Speaker 1: social media and get into the weeds. My son was

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Speaker 1: making fun of me, he said, there's no chance you'd

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Speaker 1: ever get I'm a retail military analyst, right, I mean,

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Speaker 1: that's really my gig. You know there's guys out there that, um,

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Speaker 1: you know, retired four stars at thirty five years in that,

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Speaker 1: you know, I just get up every day and and

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Speaker 1: and study the military and talk to people and and

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Speaker 1: just kind of chip away at and try to help educate.

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Speaker 1: And I want to go in your show. I feel

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Speaker 1: why my Twitter feed I can I can educate people

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Speaker 1: on what's kind of going out there, what they should

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Speaker 1: be focused and I think and then and then you know,

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Speaker 1: have a debate on something. Anyway, Yeah, I'm looking forward

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Speaker 1: to working with West Point. Well, for folks who are

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Speaker 1: hip to the on air Armstrong and Getty show, you

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Speaker 1: know that Mike Clients has been a an esteemed guest,

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Speaker 1: a military analyst among other things for years. But whether

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Speaker 1: it's the length of our segments or the fact that

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Speaker 1: you have other stations you need to jump on or whatever,

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Speaker 1: we always have to cut things short and and we

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Speaker 1: always feel like we'd love to continue talking to you.

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Speaker 1: So this is gonna be fun. That's great, perfect Well,

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Speaker 1: and with your permission, we wanted to depart from the

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Speaker 1: usual thing, which is talking about geopolitics, especially as it

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Speaker 1: pertains to the military. We'll do some of that, but um,

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Speaker 1: we just wanted to talk about the realities of the

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Speaker 1: American military and American military families for a little while.

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Speaker 1: And why don't we start with a very broad question, Uh,

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Speaker 1: what do you think is the state of the American

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Speaker 1: military family in the year Well, I think the American

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Speaker 1: military family is is held together, you know, day to day,

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Speaker 1: week to week, months to month, and it's based on

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Speaker 1: the deployments of the soldiers that are out there. The

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Speaker 1: military family, more than most you know, hangs on what

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Speaker 1: a president says, no matter who the president is, because

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Speaker 1: of that person is the commander in chief is more

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Speaker 1: cognizant of global affairs, recognizes places in the world where

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Speaker 1: their loved one can be deployed too. And I think that, um,

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Speaker 1: you know, it creates a tremendous hardship on the family.

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Speaker 1: I used to always say that if we keep this

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Speaker 1: pace up that we're going at right now, which we

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Speaker 1: have been going up, you're either as a soldier you're

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Speaker 1: gonna lose your mind or your family. And unfortunately, there's

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Speaker 1: been a lot of families broken up because of the

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Speaker 1: stress that's putting on it. And I think that, uh,

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Speaker 1: and while the army in particular is trying to do

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Speaker 1: what it can, the mission is such that the that

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Speaker 1: the soldier is just so stretched out doing so many

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Speaker 1: different things. It hasn't broken yet, um, but I think

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Speaker 1: in the future we could possibly see, you know, a

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Speaker 1: real crisis. Yeah, I wonder about that too. I mean,

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Speaker 1: whether it's the v A situation where you know you

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Speaker 1: could you could uh have served your country and even

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Speaker 1: enjoyed your mill military experience UM, and then you get

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Speaker 1: treated bad by the v A and you tell your kids, now,

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Speaker 1: don't do it. They lie to you, they don't, they

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Speaker 1: don't follow through their promises. Or I wonder about my

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Speaker 1: my brothers who was UM. He's been in long enough

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Speaker 1: to retire, but he's he's been in all kinds of

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Speaker 1: deployments in the Middle East over the years, and his

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Speaker 1: kids and UH have not seen him for long periods

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Speaker 1: of time. That's what they grew up with. I don't

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Speaker 1: know if they're going to think their kids ought to

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Speaker 1: get into it. I just wonder if you know we'll

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Speaker 1: continue to have generations of military families. I think that

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Speaker 1: one of the unfortunate aspects of UM the military, especially

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Speaker 1: in the last twenty years and the last generation, let's say,

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Speaker 1: has been this, it's become the family business, and that's

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Speaker 1: just not necessarily the way to go UM. From a

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Speaker 1: nepotistic perspective, I think you know, given the fact that

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Speaker 1: you know how it's gonna linger within the families and

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Speaker 1: how things will will go, I don't think you get

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Speaker 1: the turnover. You don't get others in society contributing to

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Speaker 1: the military. You know, the military should reflect the civilian

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Speaker 1: society and all ways shapes, forms and sizes, and it's

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Speaker 1: sometimes it doesn't. The demographics aren't such that it doesn't

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Speaker 1: do that there as well. But but in particular, um,

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Speaker 1: you know, and during the hardship is something that military

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Speaker 1: families have to go through. And um, you know, you

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Speaker 1: you do that over time, and you're gonna miss a

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Speaker 1: lot of things. You're gonna miss a lot of kids

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Speaker 1: baseball games, you're gonna miss You're gonna be away for

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Speaker 1: a lot of birthday parties. And you kind of hope

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Speaker 1: that it works out. Sometimes it does, sometimes it doesn't. Well, well,

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Speaker 1: let's stay micro for a minute. Then I want to

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Speaker 1: talk about the macro issue of the way you know,

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Speaker 1: America had chooses and pays and the rest of it.

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Speaker 1: It's military. But you talked about wearing soldiers out, Um,

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Speaker 1: the multiple deployments, how is that different from generations past?

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Speaker 1: What's changed? Just the number alone, um and and the

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Speaker 1: duration of these deployments. Uh, you know, you'd go, you know,

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Speaker 1: prior to two thousand and three, prior to the situation

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Speaker 1: of these endless wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, you could

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Speaker 1: go potentially twenty years and not have any deployment at all.

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Speaker 1: You look back from you nineteen seventy five through Desert Storm,

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Speaker 1: there weren't soldiers deployed all around the world. They were

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Speaker 1: stationed in certain places. A hardship tour back then was

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Speaker 1: considered a thirteen month tour unaccompanied without your family to

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Speaker 1: go to Korea, and that was it. Uh And now

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Speaker 1: that that's completely changed, and you can deploy for six

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Speaker 1: months in Afghanistan, come home to rest for twelve to

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Speaker 1: eighteen months, and rear right back and then in Afghanistan.

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Speaker 1: So people are doing multiple deployments. Go back to um

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Speaker 1: the reserve units even in particular that you know they

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Speaker 1: shifted so much of the combat power into reserve units

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Speaker 1: after the Vietnam War, given what happened, you know those

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Speaker 1: there was a time when you would join a reserve

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Speaker 1: unit to go pay for college. There was almost virtually

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Speaker 1: no expectation you're going to deploy if you're in a

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Speaker 1: reserve unit within the military right now, the Army in particular,

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Speaker 1: you're going down range at some point, you're going for

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Speaker 1: a long period of time. It's going to take you

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Speaker 1: out of your job, it's going to take you away

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Speaker 1: from your family well, and put you in in the

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Speaker 1: way of serious danger and stress and the rest of it,

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Speaker 1: which you know is it is a change, as you're saying,

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Speaker 1: And I think what we require these soldiers to do

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Speaker 1: nowadays is another impossible mission, and that's flip this switch

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Speaker 1: from being a war fighter to a peacekeeper. You know,

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Speaker 1: you go to certain areas and in this block, I'm

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Speaker 1: a war fighter. I've got a fight and defend what's

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Speaker 1: going on. But then the next block, I'm a peacekeeper

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Speaker 1: trying to keep two sides within a civilian population from

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Speaker 1: killing each other. And I had an argument with a

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Speaker 1: former chairman of the Joint Chiefs of all Things that

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Speaker 1: a social event wants that I just think it's impossible

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Speaker 1: to expect our soldiers, and in particular our marines, who

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Speaker 1: are killers. Marines don't join up to be peacekeepers. They're

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Speaker 1: not They're not joining up any place to you know,

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Speaker 1: hand out flowers and m R. E s two people.

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Speaker 1: And I just think it's impossible, no matter how discipline

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Speaker 1: that unit is, to flip a switch between being a

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Speaker 1: war fighter and a peacekeeper, and I think that's one

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Speaker 1: of the other challenges I never had to deal with.

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Speaker 1: I was I trained to basically, you know, fight as

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Speaker 1: immatry when required, fight artillery, fighting, combat fighting, wars. And

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Speaker 1: this whole issue about Phase five peacekeeping is another thing

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Speaker 1: that the military has taken on because it needs the

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Speaker 1: budget money. But it's really now an important mission. It's

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Speaker 1: it's a critical mission. Well, on a similar topic, and

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Speaker 1: I say this not to tute our own horns. In fact,

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Speaker 1: just the opposite. We've been honored and privileged to uh

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Speaker 1: be part of some pretty major fundraising efforts for various

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Speaker 1: causes that include uh, you know, soldiers, sailors, marines, military families, etcetera.

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Speaker 1: Veterans UM and at some of the gatherings we have

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Speaker 1: talked to guys who are recently back from Afghanistan Iraq

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Speaker 1: and what they've told us about the rules of engagement

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Speaker 1: UM have left me enraged, I mean actually red faced

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Speaker 1: and vibrating with anger that they have to wait until

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Speaker 1: they are certain they are in mortal danger UM before

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Speaker 1: they return fire or before they fire, which in many

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Speaker 1: cases ends up with dead marines, dead American boards UM.

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Speaker 1: And I wish the public knew a little more about that,

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Speaker 1: but that factors directly or that flows directly from what

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Speaker 1: you were saying. The idea that they're there to be

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Speaker 1: ambassador is of goodwill when they're not killing machines. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I mean because all the rules of engagement and combat

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Speaker 1: and warfare are totally been blurred in this age of

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Speaker 1: of fighting terrorism. You know, in the old days, the

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Speaker 1: enemy were a uniform, they were across a certain border. Uh,

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Speaker 1: you know, it was somewhat of a fight with honor.

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Speaker 1: There was you know, rules of war that were well defined.

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Speaker 1: At today's look at the green on blue attack. You

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Speaker 1: have an Afghanistan. There's just the it's the picture is

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Speaker 1: so cloudy that that's called asymmetrical warfare. Three sixty degrees

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Speaker 1: all around. We just expect our soldiers, marine sailors, everybody

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Speaker 1: to have this three and sixty degree awareness. I mean,

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Speaker 1: I try to teach my kids to think six inches

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Speaker 1: past their nose, let alone, now to try to think

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Speaker 1: three d sixty degrees around them. Uh. In order for

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Speaker 1: a threat to come, even in places where you're supposed

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Speaker 1: to be safe and secure and go back to those

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Speaker 1: rules of engagement, you might not even be able to

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Speaker 1: engage once once the shooting starts. So it is a challenge.

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Speaker 1: And I again, I just don't think you can flip

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Speaker 1: a switch. Human nature comes in and takes over on

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Speaker 1: things that that don't always count. And how about switching

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Speaker 1: the flipping the switch back off once you come home

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Speaker 1: and get out. Uh. You know, we hear a lot

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Speaker 1: about homelessness, suicide rates, all that sort of stuff. Is

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Speaker 1: it even realistic to expect people to, especially in the

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Speaker 1: maybe if you're you know, in your late teens early twenties,

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Speaker 1: really forming your your brain and the way your body

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Speaker 1: reacts to life. Um, then to go back to to

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Speaker 1: to normal life. Is that even get a reasonable expectation? No?

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Speaker 1: I agree, And I think from my perspective, I prepared

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Speaker 1: my whole adult life to go to combat, and I

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Speaker 1: went to the military academy. I studied the history of war,

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Speaker 1: I studied the military art. I read you know, books

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Speaker 1: about portoon leaders. I read about what men and and

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Speaker 1: did uh at Christmas time, for example in Best Stone

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Speaker 1: and how they you know, how they held it together.

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Speaker 1: And knowing that when I spent Christmas in a combat zone,

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Speaker 1: I felt almost privileged, the fact that I had almost

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Speaker 1: been there before in some kind of weird way. So

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Speaker 1: I think it gets back to preparation. And so I

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Speaker 1: felt when I came home it was just, you know,

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Speaker 1: there's clearly nothing like a war zone. There's nothing like

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Speaker 1: a combat zone in terms of the morality and the

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Speaker 1: norms that exist there. But I think we've just sent

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Speaker 1: too many people into that area without that pre preparation.

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Speaker 1: They sign up for different reasons, you know, they sign

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Speaker 1: up to actually go to war. You don't want, actually,

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Speaker 1: those kinds of people someway around you. They're gonna get

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Speaker 1: everybody killed if they're out there just just to kill anybody.

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Speaker 1: You need smart people. We've we've unfortunately dropped some of

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Speaker 1: those standards in the past here as well. So it

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Speaker 1: all gets back to being prepared to go to war

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Speaker 1: before you get there, and then that that will help

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Speaker 1: you on the adjustment coming back well. And it seems

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Speaker 1: to me that any people with a conscience would understand

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Speaker 1: the difficulty of that adjustment coming back and would have

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Speaker 1: pretty well developed programs to deal with that. You know,

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Speaker 1: I'm thinking about the fact. Have you had a chance

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Speaker 1: to get to read the Sebastian Younger's Fabulous book Tribe

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Speaker 1: I've not read that when I've read the other book,

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Speaker 1: the one on Kuragall and what took place there. I

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Speaker 1: saw that the documentary and I thought, if this is

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Speaker 1: in Vietnam, I don't know what is. I mean just

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Speaker 1: just I didn't like the lack of discipline in that unit,

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Speaker 1: you know, just got all cars on the table. And

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Speaker 1: I met him and I talked to him about it,

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Speaker 1: and uh, you know, because that's not what the military,

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Speaker 1: the Army of particular needs and wants. Is this other

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Speaker 1: kind of Vietnam situation where it's almost survival of the fittest.

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Speaker 1: I didn't like, Um, you know, I don't think the

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Speaker 1: officers were treated in a manner that they should have been.

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Speaker 1: It was not a very good snapshot. I thought of

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Speaker 1: what's what should a unit look like? Right? But the

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Speaker 1: book Tribe is all about the way we tend to

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Speaker 1: band together as Homo sapiens and the things and and

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Speaker 1: how strong that need is. And he talks a great

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Speaker 1: deal about folks in the military and coming back home

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Speaker 1: and how um, a young man or a woman will

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Speaker 1: have an experience where they have a life and death

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Speaker 1: trust with a fairly small group of people, and that

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Speaker 1: is so incredibly satisfying to the human soul and and

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Speaker 1: it's also so necessary in war zone. Um. But then

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Speaker 1: one of the aspects of PTSD or or difficulty adjusting back,

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Speaker 1: is you get back to the stupid, heavy, slow paced

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Speaker 1: real world quote unquote, and that's it's really hard for guys. Um.

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Speaker 1: And you know, the famous contrast is that at the

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Speaker 1: end of w W two it took months for these

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Speaker 1: guys to get back home in you know, the in

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Speaker 1: country centers, than weeks on a cruise ship, than being

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Speaker 1: mustred out, etcetera, etcetera. And now it's it's literally a

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Speaker 1: NonStop plane flight and near you are back in Omaha. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: And on top of that, while you've been in combat,

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Speaker 1: you've been facetiming with your family and you know, communication

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Speaker 1: is instant. In some ways, you've got a lot, you've

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Speaker 1: got a lot more exposure to the outside world. And um,

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Speaker 1: I do agree that when you do come home, I mean, look,

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Speaker 1: the reality of combat is it provides this adrenaline rush

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Speaker 1: that it's really pretty hard to to replicate. You know,

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Speaker 1: I'm a sports guy, like a lot of sports analogies,

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Speaker 1: but it's still nothing close, especially if you're successful. I

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Speaker 1: mean our our units were in desert storm, for example,

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Speaker 1: we're just so successful. You just it was no match,

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Speaker 1: and your level of invincibility just was sent to a

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Speaker 1: whole different level that when you do things in the

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Speaker 1: future you kind of compare and contrast to that how

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Speaker 1: you felt about that. So you're right, it's hard to

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Speaker 1: find that feeling again, especially when you run up to

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Speaker 1: against civilians were I've run up to civilians in the

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Speaker 1: job force that have literally and we're asking about getting

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Speaker 1: people in, And I said, why don't we recruit some

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Speaker 1: veterans I know, so a couple of guys too, we

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Speaker 1: can go after and and and literally I had senior

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Speaker 1: people telling me we really want to do that. Those

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Speaker 1: guys are real damage. We don't want to do that.

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Speaker 1: And I said, well, am I damage? And why how

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Speaker 1: do I look? I mean, am I coming off in

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Speaker 1: it in a way that's damaged? So UMA investment is

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Speaker 1: a challenge and it's there. Yeah. Um, it's just popped

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Speaker 1: into my head. How good is our military? I remember

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Speaker 1: hearing I think it was John McCain one time he

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Speaker 1: was asked the question about how good is our military?

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Speaker 1: You know, as Americans, we get a great charge out

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Speaker 1: of I know, I have my whole life. If we

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Speaker 1: have the best military in the world, right, um, we

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Speaker 1: could beat anybody, and we take pride in that. But

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Speaker 1: John mckaine talking about it, and they said, have you

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Speaker 1: ever faced any soldiers that are are no of any

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Speaker 1: soldiers were as good as you know the US And

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Speaker 1: he said the North Vietnamese regulars were as good. And

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Speaker 1: what's what's your experience with that? Are we better than

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Speaker 1: everybody else who out there compares to us? We are

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Speaker 1: for a couple of different reasons. Number One, we have

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Speaker 1: the best technology that you can imagine, um, and when

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Speaker 1: we get into a combat situation and a combat zone,

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Speaker 1: all that technology comes to play. I can tell you

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Speaker 1: when I was in a combat zone, all things showed

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Speaker 1: up that I've never even seen before, and we were

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Speaker 1: successful in implementing it quickly to you know, in our

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Speaker 1: operations and systems. So that's number one. Number two, we

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Speaker 1: have that not only the technology, but the equipment in

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Speaker 1: and above itself. Are our equipment, It depends on survivability.

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Speaker 1: We we build tanks and a pc s and armored

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Speaker 1: personnel carriers and equipment and planes that that survives um

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Speaker 1: combat and in order for the soldier to feel confident

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Speaker 1: in it. I looked at the Soviet tanks, and I've

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Speaker 1: looked at Soviet armored personnel carriers and they're just tin cans,

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Speaker 1: They're just f traps. So our protection of the force

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Speaker 1: is something that's very important to the soldier. But then

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Speaker 1: the third thing is, at the end of the day,

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Speaker 1: our military is superb because it trains in a combined

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Speaker 1: arms way, and we truly fight like the Germans did

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Speaker 1: in the Second World War with this you know, we

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Speaker 1: call it AirLand battle. Uh. You know, they they were,

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Speaker 1: you know, combining tanks and combining airplanes and infantry on

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Speaker 1: the ground. Uh in in that in that blitz creeg.

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Speaker 1: It's the same thing. Come fighting the way we fight

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Speaker 1: when we put all our things together, when we wind

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Speaker 1: this big fist up and we take the time and

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Speaker 1: wind it all up. Uh, there's no one, there's nothing

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Speaker 1: on the planet that can defeat the U. S. Military

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Speaker 1: when it decides to put it's it's it's a mind

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Speaker 1: is something that's interesting. A great coach doesn't roll around

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Speaker 1: pleasuring himself over his team's strengths. He talks about he

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Speaker 1: did they go after what the team isn't doing well.

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Speaker 1: What's wrong with the U. S. Military? What's week or

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Speaker 1: what's wrong with the Pentagon specifically? What could be better?

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Speaker 1: The Pentagon is such a bureaucracy that can't adjust to

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Speaker 1: the civilians and the political environment. And I think that

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Speaker 1: that is the biggest challenge right now. And and while

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Speaker 1: it's trying to adjust, you know that the Pentagon has

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Speaker 1: got to work off intent so many, so many ways,

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Speaker 1: and it moves down you know, the highway I saw,

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Speaker 1: you know, so as it's trying to acquire weapons, there's

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Speaker 1: people in the Pentagon that are looking twenty thirty years

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Speaker 1: down the road on technology that the military has to

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Speaker 1: buy right now. And there's there's things that the Pentagon

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Speaker 1: is to do now that affect that down the road.

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Speaker 1: But politicians are just worried about getting reelected in the

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Speaker 1: next two to four years and whether or not those

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Speaker 1: projects get funded or not. So the Pentagon, you know,

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Speaker 1: has to do ten or fifteen things and and do

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Speaker 1: a lot of make work stuff for things that end

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Speaker 1: up not happening go sit on a shelf, stum place um.

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Speaker 1: Because they can't adjust to the the political environment. Once

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Speaker 1: in combat though once once you unleash the Pentagon and

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Speaker 1: unleash the power of the military. Again, the resources go

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Speaker 1: and tenants followed. Look, there's no other organization aside from

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Speaker 1: the military. They can get to e Bowl and and

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Speaker 1: fight a pandemic that exists there. I mean, Napoleon would

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Speaker 1: never send his army into that kind of environment. The

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Speaker 1: military can get to Haiti, the military and get anywherese

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Speaker 1: in the world. The Navy, and once it cranks it up,

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Speaker 1: it can do it. But um, but sometimes it gets

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Speaker 1: caught up in the bureauxcy of politics. And I think

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Speaker 1: that's its big That's interesting that the last two questions

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Speaker 1: and answers go together. So the Pentagon with its you know,

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Speaker 1: having to think here's in the future, and the politics

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Speaker 1: hold them back and all this, Yet we still are

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Speaker 1: ahead of all these authoritarian countries where they can make

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Speaker 1: decisions on a dime, one person can make that decision.

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Speaker 1: How do we stay ahead of all these people? It's money.

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Speaker 1: I mean, you look at the budget that was just approved,

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Speaker 1: over seven hundred billion dollars. We have a budget that's

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Speaker 1: you know, ten times the next uh, the next competitor

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Speaker 1: that's out there and so and and the military industrial

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Speaker 1: complex is a tremendous jobs programming. Let's face it, we

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Speaker 1: we we make things that we don't even use in

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Speaker 1: some levels. And so I think that you know, you

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Speaker 1: bring all all that together, the fact that we invest

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Speaker 1: what we invest in military, and you combine that with

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Speaker 1: the technology, and it gets back to from now, the

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Speaker 1: world is so much shorter, you know, it's smaller. If

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Speaker 1: you're our enemy right now, that's the thing. You're enemy

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Speaker 1: right now. You're not even gonna try to fight the

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Speaker 1: United States conventionally. I mean, h R McMaster said that recently.

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Speaker 1: It'd be stupid for you to do something like that.

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Speaker 1: The next battle is happening in cyber The next battle

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Speaker 1: is happening in that fifth do Main possibly even space.

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Speaker 1: I mean, Trump's got it right here with this space force. Um,

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Speaker 1: somebody goes and takes out all our satellites, takes out

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Speaker 1: a lot of technology and space, we could be blinded.

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Speaker 1: That's a real problem. So the next battle is not

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Speaker 1: going to happen conventionally on the ground, even though we're

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Speaker 1: still preparing for that. A couple more pentagonst questions. I

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Speaker 1: keep hearing that we have a shortage of spare parts

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Speaker 1: for our aircraft. Is that true? More or less it is,

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Speaker 1: But I will tell you this, the Air Force doesn't

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Speaker 1: do a great job of managing that. I mean in

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Speaker 1: all cards on the table, because the air Force is

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Speaker 1: pretty smart. The air Force funds its people programs first.

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Speaker 1: It funds its golf courses, and it's housing projects and

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Speaker 1: and things and make sure all that happens. And so

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Speaker 1: when the Air Force runs out of money, they go

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Speaker 1: and claim, look, our spare parts aren't here, and it's

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Speaker 1: their way of trying to get money from extra money

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Speaker 1: from Congress that didn't budget for other service branches don't

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Speaker 1: do that. The Army is so big it has a

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Speaker 1: challenge do that. So so they've they've done this before.

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Speaker 1: That's what's what that's what their m O is. So

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Speaker 1: for them to say that they don't have spare parts,

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Speaker 1: that is their fault, their responsibility. And again you're not anti,

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Speaker 1: I won't hear it. Yeah, somebody should be fired over that.

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Speaker 1: It's a similar The bottom line is this um you know,

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Speaker 1: work for General Officer who said if I give you

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Speaker 1: all the resources you ask for and say and I

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Speaker 1: give you all those things, I expect you to get

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Speaker 1: the job done well. The Congress allocates the Air Force

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Speaker 1: all the resources it needs to get the job done.

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Speaker 1: If they're gonna want to come because they misallocated something

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Speaker 1: on their side, that's on them, all right, One more

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Speaker 1: question of that sort. I remember Bob Gates, the former

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Speaker 1: Secretary Defense, talking about his frustration trying to get the

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Speaker 1: the M wraps, the more advanced armored vehicles to the

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Speaker 1: guys who are getting killed over and over over again

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Speaker 1: by I E. D. S. And that even he is

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Speaker 1: the secret Terry Defense, found it incredibly frustrating to deal

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Speaker 1: with the bureaucracy of the Pentagon. That troubled me a lot. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and I think, UM, a lot of that just has

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Speaker 1: to do with um. There was no anticipation of that

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Speaker 1: as a requirement. It took. It took a lot longer.

429
00:20:15,400 --> 00:20:19,040
Speaker 1: From an acquisition cycle perspective, there was nothing commercially available

430
00:20:19,040 --> 00:20:21,080
Speaker 1: on the shelf that called cots. There's nothing that they

431
00:20:21,119 --> 00:20:23,320
Speaker 1: could have, you know, picked out of a Ford factory

432
00:20:23,400 --> 00:20:25,560
Speaker 1: or or you know a Crisis or a GM factory

433
00:20:25,560 --> 00:20:28,400
Speaker 1: that that could that could have modified it because of

434
00:20:28,400 --> 00:20:30,800
Speaker 1: of kind of the purple squirrel that gets made every

435
00:20:30,840 --> 00:20:35,280
Speaker 1: time you know, a military equipment is is ordered. Um,

436
00:20:35,320 --> 00:20:37,320
Speaker 1: no one kind of thought dot dot dot through. We

437
00:20:37,440 --> 00:20:39,919
Speaker 1: ended up not having, you know, going to war in

438
00:20:39,960 --> 00:20:42,879
Speaker 1: a manner that we had gone in the past. For

439
00:20:42,960 --> 00:20:45,159
Speaker 1: Desert Storm, we waited six months. We we kind of

440
00:20:45,200 --> 00:20:46,919
Speaker 1: wound that big fist up and then when we let

441
00:20:46,920 --> 00:20:49,200
Speaker 1: when we unleashed it, it it was it was pretty pretty

442
00:20:49,240 --> 00:20:51,480
Speaker 1: violent and brutal. This time here, we kind of did

443
00:20:51,480 --> 00:20:54,440
Speaker 1: a just in time war with Rumsfeld, and we didn't

444
00:20:54,520 --> 00:20:56,639
Speaker 1: bring everything to the battle that we needed to bring in.

445
00:20:56,880 --> 00:20:58,480
Speaker 1: And once when we even said to himself, you know,

446
00:20:58,520 --> 00:21:00,399
Speaker 1: you go to war with the equipment you have, so

447
00:21:00,440 --> 00:21:02,760
Speaker 1: we just didn't kind of think it through. Interesting, what

448
00:21:02,800 --> 00:21:06,240
Speaker 1: was that purple squirrel metaphor? Yeah, so the military often

449
00:21:06,320 --> 00:21:09,679
Speaker 1: wants a purple squirrel in order to accomplish a certain mission.

450
00:21:09,760 --> 00:21:12,159
Speaker 1: So you've got to you can't get something commercially available

451
00:21:12,160 --> 00:21:13,840
Speaker 1: off the shelf. That's got to be redesigned from the

452
00:21:14,280 --> 00:21:16,680
Speaker 1: from the ground up. And no one anticipated the level

453
00:21:16,760 --> 00:21:18,439
Speaker 1: of I E. D s, which are nothing more than

454
00:21:18,520 --> 00:21:20,840
Speaker 1: you know, land mines, but no one anticipated that they

455
00:21:20,840 --> 00:21:22,399
Speaker 1: would have to do that. So the military, you know,

456
00:21:22,480 --> 00:21:24,280
Speaker 1: wanted a purple squirrel. There was none. There was none

457
00:21:24,320 --> 00:21:27,239
Speaker 1: available commercially that had to redesign them. So from an

458
00:21:27,240 --> 00:21:29,199
Speaker 1: acquisition perspective, it took them a while they got them

459
00:21:29,240 --> 00:21:31,680
Speaker 1: down range. Interesting. I'll use that the rest of my life.

460
00:21:31,920 --> 00:21:34,199
Speaker 1: So you you've been studying the military whole life. I

461
00:21:34,240 --> 00:21:35,679
Speaker 1: have two is a guy who never served, and I

462
00:21:35,760 --> 00:21:38,640
Speaker 1: just I don't. I always thought i'd joined the military,

463
00:21:38,640 --> 00:21:40,560
Speaker 1: and then I didn't. For some reason, I got into radio.

464
00:21:40,600 --> 00:21:42,800
Speaker 1: But I've read so many books and you know, firsthand

465
00:21:42,800 --> 00:21:44,680
Speaker 1: accounts of being in the in this war, that war,

466
00:21:44,720 --> 00:21:47,439
Speaker 1: and all that sort of stuff. I've been fascinated a

467
00:21:47,480 --> 00:21:50,440
Speaker 1: couple of articles in the last year or so about how,

468
00:21:50,680 --> 00:21:52,920
Speaker 1: um one of the reason ways Hitler pulled off the

469
00:21:52,920 --> 00:21:55,920
Speaker 1: whole blitz Creek thing was everybody was messed up. Isn't

470
00:21:55,920 --> 00:21:58,280
Speaker 1: that interesting? Everybody was all hopped up on meth. And

471
00:21:58,320 --> 00:22:01,240
Speaker 1: that's how the Churchill was wondering, how do they do this?

472
00:22:01,320 --> 00:22:04,080
Speaker 1: How do they march that far in that many days?

473
00:22:04,119 --> 00:22:05,880
Speaker 1: How do they pull them off? And they're just using meth?

474
00:22:06,240 --> 00:22:09,119
Speaker 1: I know, when we fight in Somalia, the is a

475
00:22:09,400 --> 00:22:13,200
Speaker 1: is a product. They're called cat that the soldiers on

476
00:22:13,240 --> 00:22:15,120
Speaker 1: the other side of the terrorists and whatever you want

477
00:22:15,119 --> 00:22:17,800
Speaker 1: to call him, the warlord, soldiers whatever, that they're all

478
00:22:17,840 --> 00:22:20,600
Speaker 1: hopped up on that. When when we fought them and

479
00:22:20,640 --> 00:22:23,520
Speaker 1: go back to Mogadishu in in ninety three the battle there,

480
00:22:23,520 --> 00:22:26,439
Speaker 1: I talked to one of the the Delta commander on

481
00:22:26,440 --> 00:22:27,879
Speaker 1: the grounds of classmate of minds, A good friend of

482
00:22:27,880 --> 00:22:30,639
Speaker 1: mine is actually gonna take over Afghanistan, Scottie Miller, and

483
00:22:30,680 --> 00:22:32,320
Speaker 1: I asked him about what it was like to fight

484
00:22:32,359 --> 00:22:34,199
Speaker 1: against those guys, and he says, they're just they just

485
00:22:34,280 --> 00:22:36,679
Speaker 1: keep coming at you because of this drug that they're on,

486
00:22:36,720 --> 00:22:39,600
Speaker 1: this narcotic drug that just gives them no fear, and

487
00:22:39,640 --> 00:22:42,320
Speaker 1: they just they just don't stop. Um doesn't surprise me,

488
00:22:42,359 --> 00:22:44,160
Speaker 1: and and again it contin knows that's how the people

489
00:22:44,160 --> 00:22:47,320
Speaker 1: compete athletically. They do something different to their body, because

490
00:22:47,320 --> 00:22:49,760
Speaker 1: there's no question combat in the military. Can you can

491
00:22:49,800 --> 00:22:51,359
Speaker 1: wear it on your body if you're not if you're

492
00:22:51,400 --> 00:22:53,199
Speaker 1: not careful, that's interesting. One of the reasons I bring

493
00:22:53,240 --> 00:22:55,040
Speaker 1: it up. I don't know if you've ever read Keegan's

494
00:22:55,119 --> 00:22:57,520
Speaker 1: classic Faces of Battle. I think it is where he

495
00:22:57,520 --> 00:23:02,720
Speaker 1: takes on three different battles throughout his three D eighteen hundreds.

496
00:23:02,720 --> 00:23:04,399
Speaker 1: I think if I remember correctly and just what the

497
00:23:04,440 --> 00:23:06,320
Speaker 1: battles was like. But one thing they all had in

498
00:23:06,400 --> 00:23:09,240
Speaker 1: common was they got boozed up. A lot of them

499
00:23:09,280 --> 00:23:11,320
Speaker 1: got boozed up before they fought. It was just you know,

500
00:23:11,520 --> 00:23:14,160
Speaker 1: I know, I know, I feel tougher and more invincible

501
00:23:14,200 --> 00:23:16,359
Speaker 1: when I get a little boozed up. Do do do

502
00:23:16,440 --> 00:23:18,560
Speaker 1: we do that? Or have we done that in the past? Now,

503
00:23:18,600 --> 00:23:21,280
Speaker 1: not in the military I've seen, um, not not in

504
00:23:21,320 --> 00:23:23,840
Speaker 1: my in my time in or experience in the last

505
00:23:23,840 --> 00:23:26,400
Speaker 1: i'd say thirty thirty five years now. Again, I got

506
00:23:26,440 --> 00:23:28,680
Speaker 1: in just after the Vietnam era and when we had

507
00:23:28,720 --> 00:23:32,040
Speaker 1: some challenges for sure with soldiers back um, you know,

508
00:23:32,119 --> 00:23:35,080
Speaker 1: late seventies, you know, early eighties with that, with them

509
00:23:35,080 --> 00:23:38,119
Speaker 1: coming from Vietnam, but from for going into battle. I

510
00:23:38,119 --> 00:23:41,200
Speaker 1: wouldn't say we have any anything close to that. Hey,

511
00:23:41,240 --> 00:23:43,240
Speaker 1: speaking of Vietnam, what do you think of the idea

512
00:23:43,320 --> 00:23:48,480
Speaker 1: of a draft and or compulsory service of the Israeli model? Yeah,

513
00:23:48,520 --> 00:23:50,760
Speaker 1: I just think it's too hard, um for our country

514
00:23:50,840 --> 00:23:53,520
Speaker 1: to try to pull something like that off. A draft, um,

515
00:23:55,160 --> 00:23:56,679
Speaker 1: I don't think. And the army doesn't want it, I know,

516
00:23:56,800 --> 00:23:59,479
Speaker 1: in particular, because you want people that are gonna volunteer,

517
00:23:59,520 --> 00:24:01,960
Speaker 1: they're gonna wan be there. They don't want this kind

518
00:24:02,000 --> 00:24:04,840
Speaker 1: of turnover. All these countries that have that the compulsory

519
00:24:04,920 --> 00:24:07,600
Speaker 1: military model in some cases is because they have to

520
00:24:07,680 --> 00:24:12,199
Speaker 1: defend their land. Switzerland's got a fourteen year compulsory um model. Um.

521
00:24:12,280 --> 00:24:15,280
Speaker 1: The Israelis get up every day wondering if um, you know,

522
00:24:15,320 --> 00:24:17,040
Speaker 1: if the Arabs of of Math at the border and

523
00:24:17,040 --> 00:24:19,480
Speaker 1: they gotta go defend their country. I mean today compared

524
00:24:19,520 --> 00:24:22,080
Speaker 1: to again twenty thirty years ago, that's probably not gonna

525
00:24:22,160 --> 00:24:25,560
Speaker 1: be a high probability, or the missiles will come from

526
00:24:25,560 --> 00:24:28,520
Speaker 1: Iran or someplace else. But you know, I think it's

527
00:24:28,520 --> 00:24:31,399
Speaker 1: it's great and in sound and I think, but from

528
00:24:31,400 --> 00:24:34,680
Speaker 1: a logistical perspective, it's just too hard to manage, and

529
00:24:35,040 --> 00:24:38,000
Speaker 1: you don't pay attention at who can't get there from here?

530
00:24:38,000 --> 00:24:40,080
Speaker 1: At least people would pay attention to all of a sudden,

531
00:24:40,480 --> 00:24:41,960
Speaker 1: I find it hard to believe we'd still be in

532
00:24:42,000 --> 00:24:45,280
Speaker 1: Afghanistan kind of mucking around, not with a clear goal

533
00:24:45,680 --> 00:24:48,720
Speaker 1: after all these years. If if everybody either was on

534
00:24:48,760 --> 00:24:50,919
Speaker 1: the way or their kid was on their way. I know,

535
00:24:51,000 --> 00:24:53,199
Speaker 1: and I look at Afghanistan and it's it's more like

536
00:24:53,320 --> 00:24:56,040
Speaker 1: Vietnam to me. But we we can't lose it because

537
00:24:56,040 --> 00:24:59,000
Speaker 1: we won't have the same level of losses. But there's

538
00:24:59,040 --> 00:25:01,639
Speaker 1: probably an undercurrent the Pentagon that likes the fact that

539
00:25:01,640 --> 00:25:03,720
Speaker 1: we've got troops down range, that we could use it

540
00:25:03,760 --> 00:25:06,880
Speaker 1: as a test bed for laboratory, and it keeps us

541
00:25:06,960 --> 00:25:10,239
Speaker 1: engaged in combat, you know. And and with the with

542
00:25:10,359 --> 00:25:14,040
Speaker 1: the um unspoken word of you know this president, no

543
00:25:14,160 --> 00:25:15,720
Speaker 1: president wants to be the one that gets us out

544
00:25:15,720 --> 00:25:17,960
Speaker 1: of Afghanistan and has this you know visual of the

545
00:25:17,960 --> 00:25:20,680
Speaker 1: helicopter landing on the embassy and we have to get

546
00:25:20,680 --> 00:25:23,040
Speaker 1: out of there. But um, you know, if we wanted

547
00:25:23,040 --> 00:25:25,119
Speaker 1: to get out Afghanistan, we could Look Barack Obama did it.

548
00:25:25,119 --> 00:25:26,520
Speaker 1: We got us out of a rock, just said this

549
00:25:26,560 --> 00:25:27,840
Speaker 1: is what we're doing, you know, put a stake in

550
00:25:27,880 --> 00:25:30,600
Speaker 1: the ground. Twelve thirty one, two thousand eleven. Goodbye, good luck,

551
00:25:30,640 --> 00:25:33,399
Speaker 1: gots be at all travelers. And obviously what happened was

552
00:25:33,560 --> 00:25:35,600
Speaker 1: a lot worse. But if we wanted to get out,

553
00:25:35,640 --> 00:25:38,840
Speaker 1: we could get out. We had a long conversation recently

554
00:25:38,880 --> 00:25:42,480
Speaker 1: with your colleague Lara Logan, and she from her reporting

555
00:25:42,520 --> 00:25:46,320
Speaker 1: and talking to sources and all, it was pretty confident that, look,

556
00:25:46,359 --> 00:25:48,840
Speaker 1: we are there and going to remain there. Number one.

557
00:25:48,920 --> 00:25:53,280
Speaker 1: So Afghanistan doesn't descend into complete lawlessness also as a

558
00:25:53,320 --> 00:25:56,679
Speaker 1: counterbalance to the Pakistani's and the Iranians in the in

559
00:25:56,800 --> 00:25:59,080
Speaker 1: the region, and that we are going to have a

560
00:25:59,119 --> 00:26:02,199
Speaker 1: couple of massive basis and it's it's going to be

561
00:26:02,240 --> 00:26:05,720
Speaker 1: more like a limited occupation than a quote unquote war

562
00:26:05,840 --> 00:26:08,800
Speaker 1: for a very long time. Yeah, and that that doesn't

563
00:26:08,800 --> 00:26:12,640
Speaker 1: surprise me. Like the South Korean model, the biggest thing

564
00:26:12,680 --> 00:26:16,879
Speaker 1: that I felt about leaving Iraq was, Um, we were

565
00:26:16,880 --> 00:26:19,000
Speaker 1: gonna just lose out on that opportunity to have a

566
00:26:19,000 --> 00:26:21,600
Speaker 1: big base there. If you had the first armored division

567
00:26:21,640 --> 00:26:23,639
Speaker 1: in Iraq and if it's stayed in Iraq at the

568
00:26:23,760 --> 00:26:26,600
Speaker 1: end of that conflict, Um, you wouldn't have had ices.

569
00:26:26,640 --> 00:26:29,359
Speaker 1: You would have had a completely different um scenario. Now

570
00:26:29,400 --> 00:26:31,159
Speaker 1: you still might have had, you know, the Shia and

571
00:26:31,240 --> 00:26:35,120
Speaker 1: Sunni um you know, challenges there, but Iran as differently.

572
00:26:35,160 --> 00:26:38,119
Speaker 1: Everything acts differently when you know three four main battle

573
00:26:38,119 --> 00:26:41,000
Speaker 1: tanks can drive due north and in twelve hours being

574
00:26:41,160 --> 00:26:44,160
Speaker 1: either Damascus in Syria or in Tehran and Iran. So

575
00:26:44,720 --> 00:26:47,960
Speaker 1: I'm so we we gave up a big, um, you know,

576
00:26:48,000 --> 00:26:50,520
Speaker 1: a big leg in the game when we gave up

577
00:26:50,640 --> 00:26:52,880
Speaker 1: Iraq and the PENTAGONSA is not gonna let that mistake

578
00:26:52,920 --> 00:26:55,520
Speaker 1: happen again. We're gonna We're gonna build stuff inside of Afghanistan.

579
00:26:55,520 --> 00:26:57,600
Speaker 1: We're going nowhere, and I think we're gonna end up

580
00:26:57,640 --> 00:26:59,600
Speaker 1: having twenty thoud troops there. At some point there will

581
00:26:59,600 --> 00:27:02,399
Speaker 1: be combat troops. So this is a big dumb question,

582
00:27:02,480 --> 00:27:05,320
Speaker 1: but it's intended to get us to something that's not dumb. Um.

583
00:27:05,440 --> 00:27:08,199
Speaker 1: The oft repeated question, are we going to be the

584
00:27:08,240 --> 00:27:11,640
Speaker 1: policeman of the world? Um? You know, to some extent, yes,

585
00:27:11,680 --> 00:27:16,040
Speaker 1: we are, because American presence ensures the free flow of

586
00:27:16,119 --> 00:27:19,720
Speaker 1: commerce and and the preservation of human rights, etcetera, etcetera,

587
00:27:19,760 --> 00:27:21,359
Speaker 1: all over the world in a way that benefits the

588
00:27:21,359 --> 00:27:23,679
Speaker 1: hell out of the American people. Sometimes I wonder if

589
00:27:23,680 --> 00:27:27,600
Speaker 1: the president appreciates that, the current guy. Um. But obviously

590
00:27:27,840 --> 00:27:31,200
Speaker 1: we cannot be in every hell hole where human rights

591
00:27:31,240 --> 00:27:35,240
Speaker 1: are being denied or or or injustice is being done right,

592
00:27:35,280 --> 00:27:38,880
Speaker 1: And we pick our places mostly based on economics. And

593
00:27:39,520 --> 00:27:42,560
Speaker 1: right now we project power mostly with our navy, with

594
00:27:42,600 --> 00:27:45,760
Speaker 1: our you know, eleven air carrier navy that in Pacific

595
00:27:45,800 --> 00:27:47,760
Speaker 1: and Atlantic fleet have can keep them from bumping into

596
00:27:47,760 --> 00:27:53,320
Speaker 1: each other. Um. I think I think that though um where.

597
00:27:53,320 --> 00:27:55,560
Speaker 1: What we've done there in the military is we've built

598
00:27:55,640 --> 00:27:59,440
Speaker 1: this standoff military and our technology with cruise missiles and

599
00:27:59,560 --> 00:28:02,000
Speaker 1: you know, hit something, you know, five hundred miles away.

600
00:28:02,640 --> 00:28:05,800
Speaker 1: That's changed that whole thing about I think policeman because

601
00:28:06,119 --> 00:28:09,560
Speaker 1: in the past we interpreted that world policeman and having

602
00:28:09,680 --> 00:28:11,480
Speaker 1: you know, troops on the ground. I won't say boots

603
00:28:11,520 --> 00:28:13,879
Speaker 1: on the ground because that's insulting, but troops actually there

604
00:28:14,480 --> 00:28:18,040
Speaker 1: again during the hardship, marines, army that are actually doing things.

605
00:28:18,560 --> 00:28:21,240
Speaker 1: Our our answer right now everything is still cruise missiles

606
00:28:21,240 --> 00:28:23,199
Speaker 1: and drones and five two miles away and you know,

607
00:28:23,240 --> 00:28:25,719
Speaker 1: watching on a screen someplace in Missouri and you know,

608
00:28:25,720 --> 00:28:28,119
Speaker 1: taking people down that way. Well, it's interesting how that

609
00:28:28,160 --> 00:28:31,359
Speaker 1: plays politically too, because Barack Obama did many more drone

610
00:28:31,400 --> 00:28:34,639
Speaker 1: strikes than George Bush ever did. For some reason, the

611
00:28:34,720 --> 00:28:39,800
Speaker 1: public is okay with us atomizing people from above, uh,

612
00:28:39,840 --> 00:28:42,680
Speaker 1: you know, with with with no trial and and sometimes

613
00:28:42,680 --> 00:28:44,880
Speaker 1: I don't even hear about it. It just politically it

614
00:28:44,880 --> 00:28:47,960
Speaker 1: works a lot better to be a policeman that way. Yeah,

615
00:28:48,000 --> 00:28:51,640
Speaker 1: And and the ratio is literally something like five eight.

616
00:28:51,840 --> 00:28:57,240
Speaker 1: You know, the Obama administration launched cruise missiles and drone

617
00:28:57,280 --> 00:29:01,360
Speaker 1: strikes versus eight Bush did it wasn't even us so

618
00:29:01,880 --> 00:29:03,360
Speaker 1: and you know there's a lot of whoops, is that

619
00:29:03,400 --> 00:29:05,680
Speaker 1: happened there? We've hit things that we shouldn't have hit. Um,

620
00:29:05,840 --> 00:29:08,920
Speaker 1: it's probably been friendly fire on our side and and so,

621
00:29:09,400 --> 00:29:12,040
Speaker 1: but it's it's it's antiseptic. You can kind of go

622
00:29:12,120 --> 00:29:14,200
Speaker 1: to wash your hands, you can. You know, I'm not

623
00:29:14,240 --> 00:29:17,320
Speaker 1: that I've never been guy where the and the I

624
00:29:17,320 --> 00:29:19,240
Speaker 1: know Air Force guys can do this. They could literally,

625
00:29:19,360 --> 00:29:22,479
Speaker 1: you know, get in a plane in Germany, fly a

626
00:29:22,480 --> 00:29:24,640
Speaker 1: combat mission over a rock or someplace in the Middle

627
00:29:24,640 --> 00:29:26,360
Speaker 1: East and then go back and have dinner with their

628
00:29:26,400 --> 00:29:29,440
Speaker 1: with their family, you know. So that's but that's what

629
00:29:29,600 --> 00:29:31,440
Speaker 1: we're at right now. There's not a lot of people

630
00:29:31,440 --> 00:29:33,160
Speaker 1: that are that are downrange that are during the hearts

631
00:29:33,160 --> 00:29:36,320
Speaker 1: of accept you know, the Army and the Marines. So uh,

632
00:29:36,360 --> 00:29:38,040
Speaker 1: as long as we're in the Middle East, let's talk

633
00:29:38,080 --> 00:29:43,600
Speaker 1: a little specific geopolitics. Um, what did Barack Obama get

634
00:29:43,680 --> 00:29:46,520
Speaker 1: right and wrong about Syria? And and how has it

635
00:29:46,640 --> 00:29:49,120
Speaker 1: left us where we are now? What did he get

636
00:29:49,240 --> 00:29:52,840
Speaker 1: right on Syria? Let's see, I mean, for instance, just

637
00:29:53,160 --> 00:29:56,640
Speaker 1: if you share this opinion, I often said Barack Obama

638
00:29:56,680 --> 00:30:00,520
Speaker 1: did nothing, and he did it poorly, um, because maybe

639
00:30:00,520 --> 00:30:03,520
Speaker 1: nothing was all that could be done, you know, in

640
00:30:03,560 --> 00:30:08,440
Speaker 1: that mess, right the Barack Obama I think allowed Hillary

641
00:30:08,480 --> 00:30:11,320
Speaker 1: Clinton and others to dictate what was going to be

642
00:30:11,400 --> 00:30:15,960
Speaker 1: important Libya for example, and how that became a high

643
00:30:15,960 --> 00:30:18,840
Speaker 1: priority for the administration and look and look what happened there.

644
00:30:18,880 --> 00:30:22,280
Speaker 1: I think by the time Syria comes around, he is

645
00:30:22,480 --> 00:30:28,160
Speaker 1: completely disinterested in what's going on there, um because yeah,

646
00:30:28,400 --> 00:30:30,680
Speaker 1: he he doesn't have any really kind of stake in

647
00:30:30,680 --> 00:30:33,000
Speaker 1: the game, doesn't doesn't have an economic interest, but not

648
00:30:33,800 --> 00:30:37,840
Speaker 1: seeing the geopolitical issue of the Iranians getting involved, not

649
00:30:37,920 --> 00:30:42,760
Speaker 1: recognizing what the impact has been on Iraq, and completely

650
00:30:42,800 --> 00:30:45,680
Speaker 1: oblivious to the Kurds and their plate that they have

651
00:30:46,160 --> 00:30:49,080
Speaker 1: uh with no, with no kind of vision. Barack Obama's

652
00:30:49,240 --> 00:30:51,880
Speaker 1: entire presidency from a foreign policy perspective, was to get

653
00:30:51,880 --> 00:30:54,880
Speaker 1: to his last day in office. And you've got to

654
00:30:54,920 --> 00:30:57,240
Speaker 1: look at good presidents I think that look well over

655
00:30:57,280 --> 00:30:59,640
Speaker 1: the horizons, set things up for things to happen when

656
00:30:59,640 --> 00:31:02,640
Speaker 1: they of office. Barack Obama then focus so much on

657
00:31:02,640 --> 00:31:06,200
Speaker 1: the Iranian um nuclear deal, and all that was about

658
00:31:06,240 --> 00:31:08,360
Speaker 1: was making sure that the Iranians didn't get nukes while

659
00:31:08,360 --> 00:31:10,040
Speaker 1: he was in office because they're gonna have him ten

660
00:31:10,080 --> 00:31:12,240
Speaker 1: years down the road based in that deal. So he

661
00:31:12,360 --> 00:31:14,640
Speaker 1: got a lot wrong the whole. The biggest, the biggest

662
00:31:14,640 --> 00:31:16,920
Speaker 1: mistake he made was allowing the Russians back in, giving

663
00:31:17,000 --> 00:31:20,160
Speaker 1: them the keys to take control of their chemical weapons,

664
00:31:20,160 --> 00:31:24,200
Speaker 1: which obviously was not well defined because um, they might

665
00:31:24,240 --> 00:31:25,840
Speaker 1: have gotten rid of some of their serin gas and

666
00:31:25,840 --> 00:31:28,040
Speaker 1: some of their their persistent nerve agent, but they still

667
00:31:28,080 --> 00:31:30,920
Speaker 1: had a lot of other things to kill civilians with. Yeah,

668
00:31:30,920 --> 00:31:34,560
Speaker 1: that's interesting. Ben Rhodes from the Obama administrations written a

669
00:31:34,560 --> 00:31:36,760
Speaker 1: book recently and he talks about during that period of

670
00:31:36,760 --> 00:31:39,080
Speaker 1: time when they're trying to decide what to do with

671
00:31:39,160 --> 00:31:43,680
Speaker 1: Syrian and uh and it it was it was short term,

672
00:31:44,160 --> 00:31:45,600
Speaker 1: you know, on what you just said to trying to

673
00:31:45,600 --> 00:31:47,280
Speaker 1: get to the end of his office. That's really interesting

674
00:31:47,320 --> 00:31:50,800
Speaker 1: because it was, um, maybe a little self centator us centered,

675
00:31:50,880 --> 00:31:53,920
Speaker 1: short term thinking of what will be good for individual

676
00:31:54,040 --> 00:31:56,840
Speaker 1: soldiers or I hate to be so crashed to just

677
00:31:56,880 --> 00:32:01,080
Speaker 1: say politically, but all short term thinking. Um, you know,

678
00:32:01,120 --> 00:32:04,240
Speaker 1: it didn't look like getting involved in Libya did any good. Remember,

679
00:32:04,280 --> 00:32:06,600
Speaker 1: we went in because I think Barack Obama made this

680
00:32:06,600 --> 00:32:09,920
Speaker 1: announcement that the word was on the street that Kadafi

681
00:32:09,960 --> 00:32:11,920
Speaker 1: was going to go door to door and starts slaughtering people,

682
00:32:11,960 --> 00:32:13,880
Speaker 1: and we weren't gonna stand by and let that happen. Well,

683
00:32:13,920 --> 00:32:16,040
Speaker 1: we we certainly let that happen a lot in Syria,

684
00:32:16,080 --> 00:32:18,840
Speaker 1: but Barack Obama felt like, whether we get involved or not,

685
00:32:18,960 --> 00:32:22,360
Speaker 1: that's going to happen. So why would we be involved. Yeah,

686
00:32:22,480 --> 00:32:24,760
Speaker 1: and there's you know, nobody to drone. He draw, he

687
00:32:24,840 --> 00:32:26,600
Speaker 1: drew a red line, didn't do anything about it. I

688
00:32:26,640 --> 00:32:29,520
Speaker 1: think that was a real problem as well. Um. And

689
00:32:29,520 --> 00:32:33,160
Speaker 1: and he just wasn't interested, um and not recognizing the

690
00:32:33,160 --> 00:32:34,680
Speaker 1: guys in the Pentagon were though the guy's in the

691
00:32:34,720 --> 00:32:37,560
Speaker 1: Pentagon recognized as the Kurds. We're going to have to

692
00:32:37,560 --> 00:32:39,200
Speaker 1: have a home at some point, and they were looking

693
00:32:39,320 --> 00:32:42,800
Speaker 1: to have that as the as the eastern part of Syria.

694
00:32:43,000 --> 00:32:46,080
Speaker 1: And you look well over the horizon and you say Syria,

695
00:32:46,160 --> 00:32:49,680
Speaker 1: around North Korea, China, Russia. That's a pretty formidable alliance

696
00:32:49,680 --> 00:32:51,960
Speaker 1: of those countries. And if we don't do something to

697
00:32:52,040 --> 00:32:54,160
Speaker 1: disrupt that, we're gonna have a problem in the future. Well,

698
00:32:54,400 --> 00:32:57,240
Speaker 1: Liz Sly, who we also talked to not long ago,

699
00:32:57,280 --> 00:32:59,080
Speaker 1: wrote a great piece. I think it was a year

700
00:32:59,080 --> 00:33:01,480
Speaker 1: and a half two years ago. Ten potential wars that

701
00:33:01,480 --> 00:33:04,560
Speaker 1: could erupt from Syria slash of Rock, and she's just

702
00:33:04,680 --> 00:33:08,480
Speaker 1: nailed it one after the other. Um, the the ugly

703
00:33:08,640 --> 00:33:12,680
Speaker 1: ain't it ain't even begun in that region potentially speaking.

704
00:33:13,440 --> 00:33:15,840
Speaker 1: What's what's the big flash point? You mentioned the Kurds.

705
00:33:15,840 --> 00:33:18,400
Speaker 1: They're obviously gonna be one of them, but what do

706
00:33:18,440 --> 00:33:21,640
Speaker 1: you anticipate. I think that's what it is. A thirty

707
00:33:21,640 --> 00:33:26,040
Speaker 1: million people that consider themselves part of something called Kurdistan,

708
00:33:26,320 --> 00:33:29,440
Speaker 1: that don't have an indigenous country, and yet have all

709
00:33:29,520 --> 00:33:32,520
Speaker 1: the capabilities to have a country, natural resources that exists

710
00:33:32,520 --> 00:33:36,120
Speaker 1: where they live. You carve out a piece of Turkey, Iran, Syria,

711
00:33:36,240 --> 00:33:39,120
Speaker 1: and Iraq, and you can clearly get a country out

712
00:33:39,160 --> 00:33:41,240
Speaker 1: of that that defend itself, that could participate in the

713
00:33:41,280 --> 00:33:44,280
Speaker 1: modern world. And UM, they're gonna likely have to fight

714
00:33:44,320 --> 00:33:47,040
Speaker 1: a war to do it, and UM NATO is gonna

715
00:33:47,040 --> 00:33:49,040
Speaker 1: have to get involved at some point to stop it,

716
00:33:49,120 --> 00:33:51,280
Speaker 1: because the Turks are going to prevent it on some level.

717
00:33:51,720 --> 00:33:54,440
Speaker 1: And we've already seen some of the human suffering has

718
00:33:54,480 --> 00:33:57,920
Speaker 1: taken place. Our country has historically supported this and now

719
00:33:57,920 --> 00:33:59,440
Speaker 1: we're kind of backing down off it. I don't think

720
00:33:59,440 --> 00:34:02,720
Speaker 1: Donald Trump. Donald Trump doesn't get it yet. The previous

721
00:34:02,760 --> 00:34:05,080
Speaker 1: you know, George Bush got it and and and maybe

722
00:34:05,080 --> 00:34:07,800
Speaker 1: Bill Clinton got it a little bit. Barack Obama had nothing,

723
00:34:07,800 --> 00:34:10,279
Speaker 1: wanted nothing to do with it. Curds are pretty good fighters, too,

724
00:34:10,360 --> 00:34:13,480
Speaker 1: right they are. And they fight with literally sticks and rocks.

725
00:34:13,520 --> 00:34:16,520
Speaker 1: They fight with weapons from the nineteen forties and fifties.

726
00:34:17,360 --> 00:34:20,600
Speaker 1: But what they They're smarter and they're committed, and it's

727
00:34:20,680 --> 00:34:22,560
Speaker 1: just kind of a classic you know, they've got something

728
00:34:22,600 --> 00:34:24,799
Speaker 1: to fight for. Um, they get up every day and

729
00:34:25,520 --> 00:34:28,080
Speaker 1: realize that if they don't, if they don't defend this area,

730
00:34:28,120 --> 00:34:30,640
Speaker 1: if they don't you know, fight, that they're not going

731
00:34:30,719 --> 00:34:32,759
Speaker 1: to survive. The families not going to survive, So that

732
00:34:33,080 --> 00:34:34,920
Speaker 1: they have it ingrained in their in their culture. Boy,

733
00:34:34,960 --> 00:34:36,880
Speaker 1: and we're talking about all this different stuff. And the

734
00:34:36,880 --> 00:34:40,040
Speaker 1: the original reason we went into Afghanistan obviously was to

735
00:34:40,120 --> 00:34:42,879
Speaker 1: not have another nine eleven. How much of this has

736
00:34:42,920 --> 00:34:45,520
Speaker 1: an effect on terrorism in the United States, which was

737
00:34:45,719 --> 00:34:48,520
Speaker 1: the whole point of all of this at one point, right,

738
00:34:48,600 --> 00:34:50,520
Speaker 1: And I think, but if we don't go into a rock,

739
00:34:50,640 --> 00:34:53,960
Speaker 1: that's where the world changed. The going into Afghanistan was

740
00:34:54,000 --> 00:34:56,560
Speaker 1: for the right reasons, and if we had focused our

741
00:34:56,600 --> 00:34:59,520
Speaker 1: efforts on that and done that in a manner that

742
00:34:59,520 --> 00:35:02,640
Speaker 1: that at least set up the Afghan government move that forward,

743
00:35:03,200 --> 00:35:06,040
Speaker 1: it would have worked. But the Bush administrations they're gonna

744
00:35:06,040 --> 00:35:08,440
Speaker 1: go down in history is making the biggest mistake, and

745
00:35:08,600 --> 00:35:10,520
Speaker 1: obviously in the twenty one century when it comes to

746
00:35:11,200 --> 00:35:14,480
Speaker 1: this selective war going into Iraq and what's what's happened

747
00:35:14,520 --> 00:35:16,960
Speaker 1: since then? That's that's been the tipping point from my perspective.

748
00:35:17,040 --> 00:35:19,600
Speaker 1: Who the world has changed since that? That that what

749
00:35:19,760 --> 00:35:22,480
Speaker 1: March Day when we decided to start bombing inside and

750
00:35:22,520 --> 00:35:25,360
Speaker 1: taking down the Iraqi government. That that that's been the problem.

751
00:35:25,400 --> 00:35:27,000
Speaker 1: We we've up set the apple cart now to the

752
00:35:27,000 --> 00:35:28,799
Speaker 1: point where we can't even predict what's going to happen.

753
00:35:28,840 --> 00:35:31,160
Speaker 1: That that's really interesting. It'll be hard to explain in

754
00:35:31,239 --> 00:35:33,560
Speaker 1: future generations how did how did the United States end

755
00:35:33,640 --> 00:35:35,239
Speaker 1: up in a rock? I mean, it will be it'll

756
00:35:35,280 --> 00:35:37,279
Speaker 1: take some doing. Well, not only that, but then to

757
00:35:37,360 --> 00:35:40,920
Speaker 1: try to explain how that questioned my idea was implemented,

758
00:35:41,040 --> 00:35:44,320
Speaker 1: I mean, the actual implementation of the plans, the decisions made.

759
00:35:45,040 --> 00:35:48,560
Speaker 1: The El Paul Bremer chapter of the thing that dismissing

760
00:35:48,640 --> 00:35:51,920
Speaker 1: the entire Bathist regime, it's just in retrospective, it's just

761
00:35:52,160 --> 00:35:57,920
Speaker 1: nightmarishly mishandled right and taking four hundred thousand troops in

762
00:35:57,960 --> 00:36:01,920
Speaker 1: the Iraqi Army and unemploying automatically and and trying to

763
00:36:02,000 --> 00:36:03,680
Speaker 1: use some model that they thought was from World War

764
00:36:03,719 --> 00:36:07,960
Speaker 1: Two about the Denzification, depathification, whatever they were calling it. Um.

765
00:36:08,040 --> 00:36:10,560
Speaker 1: You know, this is where and frankly the civilian think

766
00:36:10,560 --> 00:36:12,640
Speaker 1: tanks also have some blame. You look at the neo

767
00:36:12,719 --> 00:36:14,719
Speaker 1: cons that are you know, on the Democrats side now,

768
00:36:14,760 --> 00:36:17,360
Speaker 1: because they're all never trumpers, they have much, they have

769
00:36:17,360 --> 00:36:19,480
Speaker 1: a lot of responsibility. They got the fingerprints on this

770
00:36:19,520 --> 00:36:21,920
Speaker 1: as well. So it was a you know, poor strategy

771
00:36:21,960 --> 00:36:25,640
Speaker 1: and even executed poorly when the time came. So here's

772
00:36:25,640 --> 00:36:29,239
Speaker 1: my new thing, Mike, I think we're under emphasizing our

773
00:36:29,239 --> 00:36:32,560
Speaker 1: own hemisphere. Do you spend any time much time thinking

774
00:36:32,600 --> 00:36:37,279
Speaker 1: about Central and South America and the incredibly unstable politics

775
00:36:37,280 --> 00:36:41,160
Speaker 1: and potential violence there. No, I don't. Um. I know

776
00:36:41,200 --> 00:36:44,359
Speaker 1: the Pentagon does, and I know that the Pentagon back

777
00:36:44,400 --> 00:36:47,480
Speaker 1: in the eighties did get involved with a lot of um,

778
00:36:47,520 --> 00:36:50,880
Speaker 1: the drug cartels. But that's all waned away, and um,

779
00:36:50,960 --> 00:36:53,440
Speaker 1: you know, we don't. We don't focus on South America,

780
00:36:53,480 --> 00:36:55,480
Speaker 1: what's going on there and the fact that these drugs

781
00:36:55,480 --> 00:36:57,399
Speaker 1: are coming through the border, and we don't focus on

782
00:36:58,000 --> 00:37:01,000
Speaker 1: what's going on in Mexico for what of a reason? Um,

783
00:37:01,040 --> 00:37:04,279
Speaker 1: I think again, we're still fighting the last war and

784
00:37:04,360 --> 00:37:07,359
Speaker 1: we're concerned about a world war in Europe that could

785
00:37:07,360 --> 00:37:10,400
Speaker 1: possibly take place. But um, you know, there's a tremendous

786
00:37:10,400 --> 00:37:12,440
Speaker 1: amount of resources we could focus here. And you know,

787
00:37:12,480 --> 00:37:14,520
Speaker 1: so go back to Barack Obama again. If Barack Obama

788
00:37:14,520 --> 00:37:15,920
Speaker 1: decided to say, you know when, I'm going to focus

789
00:37:15,960 --> 00:37:18,360
Speaker 1: on that right now, I'm going to really focus efforts

790
00:37:18,400 --> 00:37:20,919
Speaker 1: towards Central and South America, that would have been fine.

791
00:37:21,000 --> 00:37:22,719
Speaker 1: But but they didn't. They didn't do anything. They did

792
00:37:22,880 --> 00:37:25,719
Speaker 1: just basically kind of ran the clock out. Um. But

793
00:37:25,800 --> 00:37:28,920
Speaker 1: I know, from a military perspective, Um, we're doing what

794
00:37:28,960 --> 00:37:32,600
Speaker 1: we can on intel collection. But but knowing full well

795
00:37:32,640 --> 00:37:34,759
Speaker 1: that we still have to be careful because we've never

796
00:37:34,800 --> 00:37:37,839
Speaker 1: really sent troops anywhere with within our own hemisphere. We've

797
00:37:37,840 --> 00:37:40,520
Speaker 1: always sent them overseas to fight. Right. Yeah, I'm thinking

798
00:37:40,520 --> 00:37:43,600
Speaker 1: more in terms of foreign policy than military actions specifically.

799
00:37:43,600 --> 00:37:46,200
Speaker 1: But I think we in the United States ought to

800
00:37:46,239 --> 00:37:49,560
Speaker 1: be putting political correctness aside. Good luck with that, and

801
00:37:49,600 --> 00:37:52,560
Speaker 1: studying the hell out of the refugee crisis in Europe

802
00:37:52,640 --> 00:37:57,200
Speaker 1: and the stresses that that's causing. Because if the instability

803
00:37:57,280 --> 00:38:01,640
Speaker 1: grows in Venezuela and else, Salvador and Honduras and the

804
00:38:01,680 --> 00:38:03,359
Speaker 1: rest of them, I mean, we could be looking at

805
00:38:03,360 --> 00:38:05,719
Speaker 1: a hell of a refugee crisis and we already have

806
00:38:06,320 --> 00:38:10,720
Speaker 1: societal strains um based on you know, call it an invasion,

807
00:38:10,800 --> 00:38:13,680
Speaker 1: call it a migration, call it a flood of refugees.

808
00:38:14,440 --> 00:38:18,480
Speaker 1: I one thing we have to our advantage though, is space. Um.

809
00:38:19,120 --> 00:38:21,719
Speaker 1: The refugees in Europe, you know, kind of get there

810
00:38:21,719 --> 00:38:24,280
Speaker 1: in boats, and there's whole you know, kind of businesses

811
00:38:24,280 --> 00:38:26,319
Speaker 1: that are set up there. And you look at what

812
00:38:26,360 --> 00:38:28,520
Speaker 1: happened in Germany, for example, Germany. I went to Germany

813
00:38:28,520 --> 00:38:30,600
Speaker 1: a couple of years ago. It's completely different, and and

814
00:38:30,600 --> 00:38:32,799
Speaker 1: they're gonna what you know, Trump said, They're gonna lose

815
00:38:32,800 --> 00:38:36,080
Speaker 1: their culture. You know. I think what he means is

816
00:38:36,440 --> 00:38:38,520
Speaker 1: not only are people coming there, but it's not assimilating.

817
00:38:38,560 --> 00:38:40,040
Speaker 1: It's the challenge I think we have in our country

818
00:38:40,080 --> 00:38:42,120
Speaker 1: too as well. I Mean, we want people to assimilate

819
00:38:42,160 --> 00:38:44,759
Speaker 1: and be the Americans. It's it's okay to come here,

820
00:38:44,840 --> 00:38:47,279
Speaker 1: you gotta come legally, but you have to assimilate. But

821
00:38:47,320 --> 00:38:49,399
Speaker 1: I think it's a lot harder for people in those

822
00:38:49,440 --> 00:38:52,040
Speaker 1: countries in South America still to still get here because

823
00:38:52,040 --> 00:38:54,600
Speaker 1: there's really not a mechanism to to get them here.

824
00:38:54,600 --> 00:38:56,960
Speaker 1: And unless they go by land through you know, what

825
00:38:57,000 --> 00:38:59,319
Speaker 1: are some pretty tough, tough conditions. Yeah, if you've never

826
00:38:59,360 --> 00:39:02,360
Speaker 1: looked at a man, it's easy to forget that Africa

827
00:39:02,480 --> 00:39:05,960
Speaker 1: and Europe are Like how long would it take in

828
00:39:06,000 --> 00:39:08,480
Speaker 1: a decent power boat to get from Libya to Italy?

829
00:39:09,040 --> 00:39:12,399
Speaker 1: I mean, like you're some power boating expert. It not long,

830
00:39:12,520 --> 00:39:15,040
Speaker 1: is the answer. No, not long, right exactly, And that

831
00:39:15,120 --> 00:39:17,279
Speaker 1: people have been doing it since, you know, for for

832
00:39:17,360 --> 00:39:20,200
Speaker 1: five hundred years. I mean, and what goes on there,

833
00:39:20,200 --> 00:39:23,279
Speaker 1: and there's lots of commerce and things that can can

834
00:39:23,280 --> 00:39:26,160
Speaker 1: travel that can it can take people and make them

835
00:39:26,560 --> 00:39:28,399
Speaker 1: get into that spot. And once they get there, then

836
00:39:28,480 --> 00:39:30,760
Speaker 1: they just declare and then from there they can move

837
00:39:31,200 --> 00:39:33,799
Speaker 1: through Europe freely because of the European Union. So how

838
00:39:33,800 --> 00:39:36,520
Speaker 1: about the what the Obama administration was attempting to do

839
00:39:36,640 --> 00:39:41,399
Speaker 1: was shift away from Middle Eastern problems being dominating our

840
00:39:41,440 --> 00:39:45,440
Speaker 1: lives to China as the up and coming is threat

841
00:39:45,480 --> 00:39:47,920
Speaker 1: the right word is China a threat or they just

842
00:39:47,920 --> 00:39:50,040
Speaker 1: going to overtake us as an economy at some point.

843
00:39:50,160 --> 00:39:54,839
Speaker 1: Well they that's supposedly they would in size. But um,

844
00:39:55,120 --> 00:39:57,120
Speaker 1: you know the pivot of the Pacific that never has

845
00:39:57,160 --> 00:40:01,359
Speaker 1: happened again from the administration, that aministration's perspective, and then

846
00:40:01,480 --> 00:40:03,920
Speaker 1: from the military's perspective, a lot of it was based on,

847
00:40:04,040 --> 00:40:06,920
Speaker 1: believe it or not, global warming because we thought some

848
00:40:07,000 --> 00:40:09,720
Speaker 1: of those islands that exist there in the South Pacific,

849
00:40:09,760 --> 00:40:12,400
Speaker 1: we're going to be fifty feet and more underwater. They

850
00:40:12,400 --> 00:40:14,160
Speaker 1: were going to displace billions of people were going to

851
00:40:14,239 --> 00:40:16,239
Speaker 1: have to do. You know, we were pouring all this

852
00:40:16,360 --> 00:40:18,960
Speaker 1: money into again something that just hasn't happened yet. That

853
00:40:19,320 --> 00:40:21,279
Speaker 1: was kind of their vision of it. Um, China. That

854
00:40:21,360 --> 00:40:23,960
Speaker 1: was I was not aware of that. That's what drove

855
00:40:24,040 --> 00:40:26,479
Speaker 1: the pivot to China was global warming and worry about

856
00:40:26,480 --> 00:40:29,799
Speaker 1: the islands going underwater. Yeah, that's right, and what the

857
00:40:29,800 --> 00:40:31,840
Speaker 1: pressure that would do to the navy, that our navy

858
00:40:31,880 --> 00:40:35,120
Speaker 1: would have to they would be rescuing a million um

859
00:40:35,160 --> 00:40:38,200
Speaker 1: people are immigrants, are are a million refugees on a

860
00:40:38,239 --> 00:40:42,800
Speaker 1: yearly basis or more as the shores would rise and

861
00:40:43,200 --> 00:40:46,640
Speaker 1: people would be you know, losing their homes and so again,

862
00:40:46,680 --> 00:40:49,120
Speaker 1: I don't know why we assumed that mission, but that

863
00:40:49,200 --> 00:40:51,040
Speaker 1: was that was the basis of a lot of what

864
00:40:51,520 --> 00:40:54,040
Speaker 1: that Pivots of the Pacific was about. Meanwhile, China has

865
00:40:54,040 --> 00:40:57,120
Speaker 1: taken a generation's long view of things and building those

866
00:40:57,160 --> 00:40:59,759
Speaker 1: little islands that of course they will not militarize till

867
00:40:59,760 --> 00:41:02,480
Speaker 1: the mom want they militarize it ten minutes later. Um,

868
00:41:02,520 --> 00:41:06,080
Speaker 1: how much does that concern you? The idea that China

869
00:41:06,200 --> 00:41:10,080
Speaker 1: maybe uh maneuvering itself into a position where it can

870
00:41:10,160 --> 00:41:15,359
Speaker 1: choke off commercial sea lanes and free navigation. Well, as

871
00:41:15,440 --> 00:41:18,200
Speaker 1: long as we fund our navy and continue to have

872
00:41:18,239 --> 00:41:20,040
Speaker 1: a presence there, I just don't think that will happen.

873
00:41:20,120 --> 00:41:23,640
Speaker 1: Because if they want to have a military um fight there,

874
00:41:23,680 --> 00:41:25,719
Speaker 1: it's gonna be no match because we won't fight it

875
00:41:25,760 --> 00:41:28,600
Speaker 1: on the ground, you know, we don't. We couldn't manufacture

876
00:41:28,600 --> 00:41:30,680
Speaker 1: a billion bullets to kill the Chinese that we'd have

877
00:41:30,760 --> 00:41:34,279
Speaker 1: to kill. Um, it would come from space, it would

878
00:41:34,320 --> 00:41:39,120
Speaker 1: come from c and uh, eventually we would have you know,

879
00:41:39,160 --> 00:41:42,239
Speaker 1: all of the wherewithal in order to to to do

880
00:41:42,320 --> 00:41:44,160
Speaker 1: something there. If they decided to do that, I don't

881
00:41:44,160 --> 00:41:46,000
Speaker 1: think they're they're dumb enough to do that, and they

882
00:41:46,040 --> 00:41:48,000
Speaker 1: do take that long in the tooth approach. I mean,

883
00:41:48,239 --> 00:41:51,080
Speaker 1: you can argue that because of China's population, eventually they

884
00:41:51,080 --> 00:41:53,600
Speaker 1: should be able to win every event in the Olympics,

885
00:41:53,600 --> 00:41:55,359
Speaker 1: you right, you know, the billion people that should find

886
00:41:55,400 --> 00:41:57,480
Speaker 1: everybody that's seventh at tall, like when every basketball game.

887
00:41:57,840 --> 00:42:00,400
Speaker 1: So from a military from military perspective, you look at

888
00:42:00,440 --> 00:42:02,640
Speaker 1: them and say, but they still can't hold and keep

889
00:42:02,680 --> 00:42:05,279
Speaker 1: ground that they want to have. And just like us,

890
00:42:05,560 --> 00:42:07,359
Speaker 1: we wouldn't fight. We wouldn't have that fight. Where where

891
00:42:07,400 --> 00:42:10,080
Speaker 1: would we want to fight China from the army's perspective,

892
00:42:10,120 --> 00:42:11,960
Speaker 1: So it happens in the sea lanes, that will happen

893
00:42:11,960 --> 00:42:13,200
Speaker 1: in cyber I think that's what we've got to be

894
00:42:13,239 --> 00:42:15,000
Speaker 1: concerned about. You know, I always throw this in when

895
00:42:15,000 --> 00:42:18,239
Speaker 1: people are talking about ascendant China. They have amazing demographic

896
00:42:18,360 --> 00:42:20,319
Speaker 1: problems coming down the road, which you know, keep an

897
00:42:20,360 --> 00:42:23,560
Speaker 1: eye on that. It'll be more like Japan now than

898
00:42:23,640 --> 00:42:25,640
Speaker 1: Japan in the eighties, which everybody said was going to

899
00:42:25,760 --> 00:42:28,480
Speaker 1: take over and rule the world, etcetera. Etcetera. I want

900
00:42:28,520 --> 00:42:30,680
Speaker 1: to get to everything before we wear you out and

901
00:42:30,719 --> 00:42:32,719
Speaker 1: you finally hang up on us. But we haven't talked

902
00:42:32,719 --> 00:42:35,640
Speaker 1: to anything about you know, you're talking about various threats

903
00:42:35,640 --> 00:42:39,200
Speaker 1: around the world. Isn't the still the greatest threat out

904
00:42:39,200 --> 00:42:43,440
Speaker 1: there for really for all of mankind. It's amazing nobody

905
00:42:43,480 --> 00:42:46,759
Speaker 1: would have predicted this, that nobody has set off a

906
00:42:46,880 --> 00:42:50,960
Speaker 1: nuke in anger since the forties. At some point that's

907
00:42:51,000 --> 00:42:53,520
Speaker 1: going to happen, isn't it. Well, it it's down to

908
00:42:53,560 --> 00:42:59,240
Speaker 1: accountability of nuclear weapons number one, um and the strict

909
00:42:59,520 --> 00:43:01,480
Speaker 1: you just keep it. Make that you've got to be

910
00:43:01,520 --> 00:43:04,319
Speaker 1: an industrialized nation to have its only eight countries that

911
00:43:04,840 --> 00:43:08,080
Speaker 1: or even have this nuclear capability to enrich it um

912
00:43:08,320 --> 00:43:10,000
Speaker 1: and it can't be shrunk. I was you know, the

913
00:43:10,000 --> 00:43:12,040
Speaker 1: new Mission Impossible movie talks about how they're gonna have

914
00:43:12,080 --> 00:43:15,279
Speaker 1: some suitcase nuclear weapon. It's just just doesn't make That's

915
00:43:15,280 --> 00:43:17,799
Speaker 1: not something that someone can make right now without the

916
00:43:17,800 --> 00:43:21,080
Speaker 1: accountability that that that that goes with having a nuclear weapon.

917
00:43:21,120 --> 00:43:22,759
Speaker 1: But just the fact that there hasn't been an accident. Now,

918
00:43:22,800 --> 00:43:24,600
Speaker 1: there's been a couple of accidents. In fact, there's some

919
00:43:24,640 --> 00:43:26,400
Speaker 1: in the eighties. Some of the guy some guy dropped

920
00:43:26,400 --> 00:43:28,360
Speaker 1: a wrench down a missile silo there and that almost

921
00:43:28,400 --> 00:43:32,840
Speaker 1: blew half of Arkansas away. Um, but there have been challenges.

922
00:43:33,360 --> 00:43:36,160
Speaker 1: But to your point, statistically, you would think something would

923
00:43:36,200 --> 00:43:38,359
Speaker 1: have happened, and when, if, and when it ever does.

924
00:43:38,560 --> 00:43:42,840
Speaker 1: As this nuclear arsenal ages and metal rusts and the

925
00:43:42,880 --> 00:43:46,480
Speaker 1: equipment to maintain it goes offline and floppy disks that

926
00:43:46,520 --> 00:43:49,799
Speaker 1: are no longer used to launch it get changed, there's

927
00:43:49,800 --> 00:43:52,400
Speaker 1: a real possibility that that that could happen. Wow, so

928
00:43:52,560 --> 00:43:55,160
Speaker 1: you're more concerned. Well, I won't speak for you, but

929
00:43:55,200 --> 00:43:58,839
Speaker 1: are you more concerned about decay and the irresponsibility than

930
00:43:59,040 --> 00:44:02,399
Speaker 1: say Pakistan in India getting into a bee for North

931
00:44:02,520 --> 00:44:06,680
Speaker 1: Korea selling their technology to isis that sort of thing? No,

932
00:44:06,840 --> 00:44:09,399
Speaker 1: I'm concerned about North Korea and the proliferation of their

933
00:44:09,440 --> 00:44:12,279
Speaker 1: technology because they're not going to unlearn what they have.

934
00:44:12,480 --> 00:44:14,480
Speaker 1: But but whether or not other countries can get the

935
00:44:14,520 --> 00:44:17,000
Speaker 1: material to do it as another question, and we can

936
00:44:17,200 --> 00:44:20,359
Speaker 1: control that to some degree, so that that is an issue.

937
00:44:20,400 --> 00:44:23,600
Speaker 1: There's no question I think I am concerned about our

938
00:44:23,719 --> 00:44:26,319
Speaker 1: nuclear arsenal because I mean, I hate to talk about

939
00:44:26,320 --> 00:44:27,719
Speaker 1: the Air Force again, but the bottom line is the

940
00:44:27,760 --> 00:44:29,600
Speaker 1: air Force works it, and the Air Force doesn't care

941
00:44:29,600 --> 00:44:31,200
Speaker 1: about it because the Air Force wants to fly off

942
00:44:31,239 --> 00:44:33,200
Speaker 1: sixteens and they want to fly and do all the

943
00:44:33,239 --> 00:44:35,360
Speaker 1: sexy stuff, and the guys that do the nuclear mission

944
00:44:35,360 --> 00:44:37,719
Speaker 1: don't get promoted. They're all disgruntled us to the drug

945
00:44:37,760 --> 00:44:40,200
Speaker 1: problems we've had in a couple of silos, and to me,

946
00:44:40,239 --> 00:44:42,600
Speaker 1: it's a real lack of leadership. And someone better be

947
00:44:42,600 --> 00:44:44,799
Speaker 1: paying attention to make sure that that equipment there is

948
00:44:44,840 --> 00:44:48,960
Speaker 1: not eroding or is still functional, because we still might

949
00:44:49,000 --> 00:44:50,839
Speaker 1: have to use it, God forbid at some point. Yeah,

950
00:44:50,880 --> 00:44:53,480
Speaker 1: back to North Korea, just briefly. I grew up in Chicago, Land,

951
00:44:53,520 --> 00:44:55,080
Speaker 1: and if I was on the West side of Chicago

952
00:44:55,239 --> 00:44:57,719
Speaker 1: right now and I've got a really really good, expensive

953
00:44:57,760 --> 00:45:00,920
Speaker 1: gun and i am absolutely desperate for cash, it's not

954
00:45:00,960 --> 00:45:05,319
Speaker 1: difficult to imagine what I'm going to do. And so yeah,

955
00:45:05,400 --> 00:45:08,440
Speaker 1: North Korea, my God, the idea of them proliferating is

956
00:45:09,080 --> 00:45:10,680
Speaker 1: it's got to be front and center all the time,

957
00:45:11,400 --> 00:45:14,439
Speaker 1: not only their nuclear capability but their missile technology because

958
00:45:14,560 --> 00:45:18,640
Speaker 1: North Korea has a quasi space program, um you know, good,

959
00:45:18,680 --> 00:45:22,440
Speaker 1: not great, And in order to have this i CBM capability,

960
00:45:22,480 --> 00:45:24,160
Speaker 1: you have to really have a space program, which is

961
00:45:24,160 --> 00:45:26,960
Speaker 1: why anytime they've launched these missiles in the past, they

962
00:45:27,000 --> 00:45:28,640
Speaker 1: don't you don't know what they're hitting and they just

963
00:45:28,680 --> 00:45:30,879
Speaker 1: go into the water. You know, for them to say

964
00:45:30,880 --> 00:45:33,560
Speaker 1: they could hit the West Coast remains to be seen.

965
00:45:34,120 --> 00:45:36,239
Speaker 1: But you've got to have in most cases, you do

966
00:45:36,280 --> 00:45:38,319
Speaker 1: have to have this space program in missiles in order

967
00:45:38,360 --> 00:45:40,160
Speaker 1: to ensure that you can hit the other side of it.

968
00:45:40,200 --> 00:45:43,920
Speaker 1: But if North Korea propagates that technology to Iran with

969
00:45:44,400 --> 00:45:47,239
Speaker 1: more of what's going on on the nuclear side, then

970
00:45:47,320 --> 00:45:49,720
Speaker 1: the Iranians come up ten years so now this nuclear power.

971
00:45:49,840 --> 00:45:52,080
Speaker 1: The Israelitis will stand for that for about maybe five

972
00:45:52,120 --> 00:45:54,480
Speaker 1: to ten minutes and then all you know, the f

973
00:45:54,480 --> 00:45:57,719
Speaker 1: A teams get deployed from from there and then that

974
00:45:57,760 --> 00:46:00,279
Speaker 1: war starts because the the Asraelitis are not going to

975
00:46:00,360 --> 00:46:02,719
Speaker 1: put up with the Iranians having any kind of nuclear capability.

976
00:46:02,840 --> 00:46:04,879
Speaker 1: It's just it's just amazing that if you sit around

977
00:46:04,880 --> 00:46:06,720
Speaker 1: and have a conversation with a you know, a smart

978
00:46:06,760 --> 00:46:08,480
Speaker 1: person like you, or maybe it's dumb guys in a

979
00:46:08,520 --> 00:46:11,200
Speaker 1: bar or whatever, and you're discussing, you know, military things,

980
00:46:11,239 --> 00:46:13,000
Speaker 1: what could happen? You always end up back in the

981
00:46:13,040 --> 00:46:15,920
Speaker 1: Middle East. You always end up back in religious arguments

982
00:46:15,960 --> 00:46:18,800
Speaker 1: that are several thousand years old, driving what's going to

983
00:46:18,880 --> 00:46:21,640
Speaker 1: blow up the world. It's just incredible. Speaking of which

984
00:46:21,800 --> 00:46:25,400
Speaker 1: one more geopolitical hotspot, if we may, it's it's a

985
00:46:25,400 --> 00:46:28,320
Speaker 1: pivot point between Europe and Asia, between the Muslim world

986
00:46:28,320 --> 00:46:32,000
Speaker 1: the Christian world. Turkey has got to be you know,

987
00:46:32,160 --> 00:46:36,160
Speaker 1: unless North Korea, the cells, the missiles as you're describing, etcetera, etcetera.

988
00:46:36,360 --> 00:46:38,880
Speaker 1: Turkey to me is is going to be the center

989
00:46:39,440 --> 00:46:43,200
Speaker 1: of all that is truly dangerous in the next five years.

990
00:46:43,440 --> 00:46:46,480
Speaker 1: And that is a that's a regime that's teetering, it's

991
00:46:46,560 --> 00:46:48,960
Speaker 1: it's a it's a fairly powerful military. You've got the

992
00:46:49,000 --> 00:46:52,960
Speaker 1: Curtis thing, they're all tied into Turkey. The second largest

993
00:46:53,000 --> 00:46:55,480
Speaker 1: military after the U S and NATO is Turkey. And

994
00:46:56,000 --> 00:46:59,200
Speaker 1: this regime is not good for the United States and

995
00:46:59,200 --> 00:47:02,240
Speaker 1: the United States in trists and in the past, Turkey

996
00:47:02,320 --> 00:47:05,800
Speaker 1: had been the the way we communicated with the Iranians,

997
00:47:05,840 --> 00:47:08,600
Speaker 1: go back to the eighties and the nineties. Um when

998
00:47:08,880 --> 00:47:10,680
Speaker 1: you know, on the outset it looked like we were

999
00:47:10,719 --> 00:47:14,040
Speaker 1: never doing anything with with Iran Well, we we were

1000
00:47:14,080 --> 00:47:16,680
Speaker 1: able to communicate with them through Turkey. So they've they've

1001
00:47:16,680 --> 00:47:19,399
Speaker 1: always been a conduit and always been a really close ally.

1002
00:47:19,440 --> 00:47:21,959
Speaker 1: But what's going on there now is really scary. And

1003
00:47:22,080 --> 00:47:25,640
Speaker 1: again they have nuclear weapons. Are nuclear weapons inside of

1004
00:47:25,640 --> 00:47:27,800
Speaker 1: Turkey at Insilic Air based and some of these locations.

1005
00:47:27,800 --> 00:47:29,400
Speaker 1: They claim that they're not there. I mean they're not

1006
00:47:29,440 --> 00:47:31,399
Speaker 1: I C B M S. But but the bottom line

1007
00:47:31,440 --> 00:47:35,520
Speaker 1: is they've got them in their possession. And um, this

1008
00:47:35,719 --> 00:47:37,919
Speaker 1: that that leader there is you know, off the wall.

1009
00:47:37,960 --> 00:47:40,880
Speaker 1: He's on hinge for for for no question and and

1010
00:47:40,880 --> 00:47:43,360
Speaker 1: and I think that from the United States's perspective, we

1011
00:47:43,360 --> 00:47:44,680
Speaker 1: need to be watching that a lot closely. And the

1012
00:47:44,680 --> 00:47:47,880
Speaker 1: Trump administration putting sanctions on them and we released as

1013
00:47:47,880 --> 00:47:50,520
Speaker 1: political prisoners were not off to a good start there

1014
00:47:50,560 --> 00:47:52,680
Speaker 1: right now. Did you just say Turkey has the second

1015
00:47:52,760 --> 00:47:56,160
Speaker 1: biggest army behind the United States and NATO. Yeah, I

1016
00:47:56,160 --> 00:47:57,680
Speaker 1: believe that's what they do in terms of what they

1017
00:47:57,680 --> 00:48:01,480
Speaker 1: spent in NATO itself, they're bigger than UK, Canada those

1018
00:48:01,480 --> 00:48:03,560
Speaker 1: other ones in terms of what they spend. Absolutely, well,

1019
00:48:03,560 --> 00:48:07,520
Speaker 1: that's interesting. I didn't know that. So listen, final question

1020
00:48:07,600 --> 00:48:10,160
Speaker 1: for me unless I come up with another one. Um,

1021
00:48:10,760 --> 00:48:13,200
Speaker 1: a good buddy of mine who is no longer with us,

1022
00:48:13,200 --> 00:48:15,120
Speaker 1: God rest the soul. He was a marine. UM. He

1023
00:48:15,239 --> 00:48:17,439
Speaker 1: was one of my best childhood friends, and he would

1024
00:48:17,440 --> 00:48:20,359
Speaker 1: occasionally refer to me as a silly vilion, which um,

1025
00:48:20,719 --> 00:48:23,160
Speaker 1: which I actually appreciated because I like a good insult

1026
00:48:23,440 --> 00:48:28,960
Speaker 1: and I loved him. UM. What should or could the

1027
00:48:29,040 --> 00:48:32,839
Speaker 1: civilian folks who are listening to this podcast do or

1028
00:48:32,920 --> 00:48:38,080
Speaker 1: remember or donate? How do civilians support America's military? How

1029
00:48:38,160 --> 00:48:41,520
Speaker 1: should we? I I just say this that anybody is

1030
00:48:41,520 --> 00:48:44,279
Speaker 1: in the military came from the civilian world, and there

1031
00:48:44,320 --> 00:48:47,200
Speaker 1: were a reflection of the civilian world and their values.

1032
00:48:47,400 --> 00:48:50,640
Speaker 1: And if you were you know, squared away and if

1033
00:48:50,640 --> 00:48:53,239
Speaker 1: you were smart and you were you know, a good

1034
00:48:53,280 --> 00:48:55,840
Speaker 1: citizen and you loved your country before you win the military,

1035
00:48:55,920 --> 00:48:57,840
Speaker 1: you did that when you come out of the military.

1036
00:48:57,880 --> 00:49:00,400
Speaker 1: The kind of the dirty little secret is. And for eternately,

1037
00:49:00,400 --> 00:49:02,759
Speaker 1: there are some people that we're crazy when they got in,

1038
00:49:02,840 --> 00:49:04,480
Speaker 1: they got the military let them in, and then they're

1039
00:49:04,480 --> 00:49:06,640
Speaker 1: crazy than they're out and they get painted with this

1040
00:49:06,719 --> 00:49:10,600
Speaker 1: broad brush. Um as the military made that happen. The

1041
00:49:10,600 --> 00:49:13,520
Speaker 1: military caused that to happen. But I just I'm always

1042
00:49:13,800 --> 00:49:16,160
Speaker 1: trying to pick that that out before whether or not

1043
00:49:16,239 --> 00:49:19,359
Speaker 1: someone was crazy based on whether they you know, they

1044
00:49:19,360 --> 00:49:21,040
Speaker 1: were before the military after the most right. But but

1045
00:49:21,080 --> 00:49:24,800
Speaker 1: the bottom line is this, most veterans, I would say,

1046
00:49:24,120 --> 00:49:27,360
Speaker 1: and just don't necessarily have to be thanked for their service.

1047
00:49:27,400 --> 00:49:30,160
Speaker 1: That's something that when I am, I say, ellis and

1048
00:49:30,200 --> 00:49:32,520
Speaker 1: I volunteer, and I appreciate and thanks for paying your

1049
00:49:32,520 --> 00:49:36,160
Speaker 1: taxes and the whole thing. But most people don't want

1050
00:49:36,160 --> 00:49:39,000
Speaker 1: to project that Veterans want to project that value back

1051
00:49:39,040 --> 00:49:40,879
Speaker 1: that other people have to do it or insist upon

1052
00:49:40,960 --> 00:49:43,480
Speaker 1: doing it. So I think that, um, you know, the

1053
00:49:43,840 --> 00:49:46,440
Speaker 1: break that the civilians would want to say is just

1054
00:49:47,080 --> 00:49:48,759
Speaker 1: you know, they asked them what what can I and

1055
00:49:48,800 --> 00:49:50,560
Speaker 1: they had you to help you kind of assimilar or

1056
00:49:50,560 --> 00:49:52,239
Speaker 1: you're doing something right now? What's what's kind of going

1057
00:49:52,280 --> 00:49:55,000
Speaker 1: going on? Because just like everybody, we all were all

1058
00:49:55,000 --> 00:49:57,600
Speaker 1: carrying a burden to something and um, you know, if

1059
00:49:57,600 --> 00:50:00,600
Speaker 1: you're a veteran or not a veteran, you're you're carrying something. Um,

1060
00:50:00,800 --> 00:50:03,680
Speaker 1: So to just just be a be a citizen of

1061
00:50:03,719 --> 00:50:06,400
Speaker 1: the United States and support and support your government and

1062
00:50:06,400 --> 00:50:08,839
Speaker 1: support you know, your your town and your city, and

1063
00:50:08,840 --> 00:50:10,920
Speaker 1: and have to make sure they make that contribution. Sometimes

1064
00:50:10,960 --> 00:50:12,960
Speaker 1: support them by being critical of them too. I mean,

1065
00:50:13,239 --> 00:50:16,080
Speaker 1: obviously I know you know that, um from my brother

1066
00:50:16,080 --> 00:50:17,600
Speaker 1: at various times when he was in a rack for

1067
00:50:17,640 --> 00:50:19,839
Speaker 1: the longest period of time, come over and Molway's lawn.

1068
00:50:20,880 --> 00:50:23,480
Speaker 1: Uh a, kids were little and his wife was busy. Yeah,

1069
00:50:23,480 --> 00:50:26,720
Speaker 1: I remember the sacrifices military families are making. I'd suggest

1070
00:50:26,760 --> 00:50:29,239
Speaker 1: to you. Know, We've long believed. I've I've always said that.

1071
00:50:29,840 --> 00:50:32,359
Speaker 1: The one thing that bothers me sometimes about maybe even

1072
00:50:32,400 --> 00:50:37,879
Speaker 1: a worshipfulness of military folks, is that I believe everybody

1073
00:50:37,960 --> 00:50:40,040
Speaker 1: should serve their country. And I say that as a

1074
00:50:40,120 --> 00:50:44,000
Speaker 1: small government libertarian type of skeptic of government. From top

1075
00:50:44,040 --> 00:50:48,560
Speaker 1: to bottom. Um, our country is us. It's it's the constitution,

1076
00:50:48,920 --> 00:50:52,040
Speaker 1: and it's the people, and we all need to be

1077
00:50:52,120 --> 00:50:54,400
Speaker 1: serving the country if we wanted to be healthy and strong.

1078
00:50:54,680 --> 00:50:56,880
Speaker 1: And sometimes I worry people look to the military and

1079
00:50:56,920 --> 00:50:59,120
Speaker 1: tell him, you do it. Me I'm gonna chase money

1080
00:50:59,160 --> 00:51:03,319
Speaker 1: and do whatever I want, right. I feel that way sometimes,

1081
00:51:03,360 --> 00:51:07,319
Speaker 1: but but then I look at statistics about of the

1082
00:51:07,360 --> 00:51:11,520
Speaker 1: youth of America can't even meet the military minimum of

1083
00:51:11,640 --> 00:51:14,560
Speaker 1: height weight standards, or they've been popped out on a

1084
00:51:14,640 --> 00:51:16,880
Speaker 1: drug test or something like that. You know, if you

1085
00:51:16,920 --> 00:51:19,600
Speaker 1: want to If you know you want to be a

1086
00:51:19,680 --> 00:51:22,960
Speaker 1: support your country, then then get in shape, support your country,

1087
00:51:22,960 --> 00:51:26,560
Speaker 1: go vote. Um. Don't commit crimes, don't take drugs, don't

1088
00:51:26,560 --> 00:51:29,000
Speaker 1: contribute to those kinds of things that that are really

1089
00:51:29,000 --> 00:51:31,960
Speaker 1: bad for society. That's what's concerned to me. The military

1090
00:51:32,040 --> 00:51:34,360
Speaker 1: shouldn't be this, you know, fat farm, shouldn't be this

1091
00:51:34,360 --> 00:51:36,600
Speaker 1: place where people get their life straight. You know, the

1092
00:51:36,680 --> 00:51:38,720
Speaker 1: judge give you the order between jail or the military.

1093
00:51:38,719 --> 00:51:41,279
Speaker 1: Those are kind of the old days because the military

1094
00:51:41,560 --> 00:51:44,440
Speaker 1: is a profession that like anything else is, and we

1095
00:51:44,520 --> 00:51:47,520
Speaker 1: want people that are highly competent, highly committed. Um, and

1096
00:51:47,560 --> 00:51:49,799
Speaker 1: that's what's gonna matter. It's just just as matters in

1097
00:51:49,800 --> 00:51:52,560
Speaker 1: the civilian world as well. My clients. Hey, Mike, we

1098
00:51:52,600 --> 00:51:54,960
Speaker 1: can't thank you enough for the time. Really really interesting

1099
00:51:55,000 --> 00:51:57,560
Speaker 1: and we know the folks love it when you stop

1100
00:51:57,560 --> 00:52:00,279
Speaker 1: by some thanks. Thanks guys. It's a privileg is to

1101
00:52:00,280 --> 00:52:01,600
Speaker 1: be on with you guys. When I am, I really

1102
00:52:01,600 --> 00:52:04,120
Speaker 1: really appreciate it. You're too kind, all right, thanks Mike,

1103
00:52:04,160 --> 00:52:06,719
Speaker 1: great to talk. That actually is too kind. We don't

1104
00:52:06,760 --> 00:52:09,200
Speaker 1: deserve that. We don't know that. It is not a

1105
00:52:09,320 --> 00:52:11,640
Speaker 1: privilege to be on our show. It's just you know.

1106
00:52:13,760 --> 00:52:15,080
Speaker 1: I mean, it's nice for him to say I have

1107
00:52:15,120 --> 00:52:17,000
Speaker 1: so much guilt or so many things. Let me roll

1108
00:52:17,080 --> 00:52:19,480
Speaker 1: around in that from moments where I am in life.

1109
00:52:19,480 --> 00:52:21,359
Speaker 1: On it, I know where I am in life. You know,

1110
00:52:21,760 --> 00:52:24,120
Speaker 1: you've talked a little bit about the fact that you

1111
00:52:24,200 --> 00:52:27,279
Speaker 1: wanted for a long time in childhood to be in

1112
00:52:27,280 --> 00:52:29,399
Speaker 1: the military. I was planning on that cleared through through

1113
00:52:29,400 --> 00:52:32,279
Speaker 1: my senior year in high school, military marine recruiters at

1114
00:52:32,280 --> 00:52:34,800
Speaker 1: our house. I was filling out paperwork, the whole thing. Wow,

1115
00:52:34,840 --> 00:52:37,000
Speaker 1: you got that fallow? Yeah? Yeah? And was it because

1116
00:52:37,040 --> 00:52:38,840
Speaker 1: you have to poop out in the open that freak

1117
00:52:38,880 --> 00:52:41,319
Speaker 1: you out? Or what? In the Marines? I remember when

1118
00:52:41,760 --> 00:52:43,640
Speaker 1: I made reference to a good friend of mine who's

1119
00:52:43,680 --> 00:52:46,479
Speaker 1: no longer with us. But when Scott told me that, um, yeah,

1120
00:52:46,480 --> 00:52:48,239
Speaker 1: that's what happens, I thought, Oh my god, I don't

1121
00:52:48,280 --> 00:52:50,640
Speaker 1: want to do that, which is ridiculous. You know, several

1122
00:52:50,719 --> 00:52:52,960
Speaker 1: several of my friends I was riding motorcycles with that,

1123
00:52:53,160 --> 00:52:57,440
Speaker 1: you know that uh, summer before senior year, that sort

1124
00:52:57,480 --> 00:53:00,880
Speaker 1: of thing. I mean, we're riding motorcycles. God all my long, sometimes,

1125
00:53:01,280 --> 00:53:03,760
Speaker 1: honest to God, all night long. They'd come honk outside

1126
00:53:03,760 --> 00:53:06,359
Speaker 1: my parents house and I'd hear him and I'd go down,

1127
00:53:06,480 --> 00:53:09,319
Speaker 1: get get dressed, and run downstairs. Before school's gonna start,

1128
00:53:09,360 --> 00:53:11,720
Speaker 1: We'll be riding around motorcycles at three o'clock in the morning.

1129
00:53:12,520 --> 00:53:14,920
Speaker 1: Rural Kansas where you could actually I remember one time

1130
00:53:14,920 --> 00:53:17,319
Speaker 1: on a hot night, stopping on the highway and we

1131
00:53:17,320 --> 00:53:19,239
Speaker 1: took a little nap on the highway, laying down in

1132
00:53:19,239 --> 00:53:22,360
Speaker 1: the highway because there's no car in the lanes because

1133
00:53:22,480 --> 00:53:24,680
Speaker 1: because of the warmth was still on. The were cold

1134
00:53:24,719 --> 00:53:26,760
Speaker 1: and there were still warmth on the highway from the asshole.

1135
00:53:26,840 --> 00:53:31,359
Speaker 1: There's no people out, no cars. But anyway, Um, they

1136
00:53:31,360 --> 00:53:32,759
Speaker 1: were going in the Marines, and they did go in

1137
00:53:32,800 --> 00:53:34,880
Speaker 1: the Marines. And I don't, for the life of me,

1138
00:53:34,960 --> 00:53:37,959
Speaker 1: remember why I didn't. I really don't. I became aware

1139
00:53:37,960 --> 00:53:39,480
Speaker 1: of the radio program, and you know, the way you

1140
00:53:39,480 --> 00:53:40,920
Speaker 1: are when a kid, you're just like this way and

1141
00:53:41,000 --> 00:53:43,320
Speaker 1: that way. I think I became aware of this radio program,

1142
00:53:43,360 --> 00:53:46,719
Speaker 1: and I just that was the end of that. Yeah,

1143
00:53:46,840 --> 00:53:48,520
Speaker 1: I was told that you can't get in if you'd

1144
00:53:48,520 --> 00:53:51,839
Speaker 1: ever smoked pot. And I'm afraid I had crossed that line. Um,

1145
00:53:51,880 --> 00:53:54,400
Speaker 1: that was just not having This was in the eighties.

1146
00:53:54,520 --> 00:53:58,360
Speaker 1: Keep in mind, which um the need for guys was

1147
00:53:58,400 --> 00:54:02,200
Speaker 1: a little different than you know, for instance, the Vietnam

1148
00:54:02,320 --> 00:54:08,920
Speaker 1: era or the ever never ending Middle East conflict era. UM,

1149
00:54:09,480 --> 00:54:12,080
Speaker 1: that could be picky. In the eighties, I didn't have

1150
00:54:12,080 --> 00:54:14,640
Speaker 1: that problem, but I I I'm happy with the way

1151
00:54:14,680 --> 00:54:16,600
Speaker 1: my life turned off. So you don't want to change

1152
00:54:16,640 --> 00:54:18,160
Speaker 1: things if you could go back in a time machine,

1153
00:54:18,200 --> 00:54:20,200
Speaker 1: because maybe it wouldn't turn out good. I hear you,

1154
00:54:20,239 --> 00:54:22,520
Speaker 1: but I wish i'd done it in some levels, I'd

1155
00:54:22,520 --> 00:54:24,120
Speaker 1: like to have seen, you know, because you do that

1156
00:54:24,160 --> 00:54:27,000
Speaker 1: sort of thing to see if you could do it. Yeah. Yeah,

1157
00:54:27,320 --> 00:54:28,680
Speaker 1: and you get to be a marine for the rest

1158
00:54:28,719 --> 00:54:31,600
Speaker 1: of your life, yeah, which is very very cool. I

1159
00:54:31,640 --> 00:54:33,040
Speaker 1: don't know, you know how much we want to go

1160
00:54:33,080 --> 00:54:35,080
Speaker 1: into this, and I know both of us have stuff

1161
00:54:35,120 --> 00:54:37,600
Speaker 1: that we really probably shouldn't talk about with our families,

1162
00:54:37,640 --> 00:54:41,600
Speaker 1: but we didn't even mention during our chat with my clients. Well,

1163
00:54:41,640 --> 00:54:44,320
Speaker 1: you mentioned your brother's active duty Army and minus active

1164
00:54:44,360 --> 00:54:48,960
Speaker 1: duty Navy, UM, and that definitely has an influence on

1165
00:54:49,160 --> 00:54:52,920
Speaker 1: our perspective. Do you ever talk to your brother about,

1166
00:54:53,400 --> 00:54:55,239
Speaker 1: just in a macro way, how he feels about his

1167
00:54:55,280 --> 00:55:00,560
Speaker 1: military career. He does not talk much. He does not

1168
00:55:00,680 --> 00:55:05,360
Speaker 1: talk much period, which is a product of his uh

1169
00:55:05,680 --> 00:55:08,880
Speaker 1: military and war experience and combat experience. He's one of

1170
00:55:08,920 --> 00:55:12,120
Speaker 1: those guys that does not talk about he he he

1171
00:55:12,200 --> 00:55:14,840
Speaker 1: is a big regular. People don't get it. Yeah, I

1172
00:55:14,880 --> 00:55:17,239
Speaker 1: can't talk to them. I can understand the military guy.

1173
00:55:17,320 --> 00:55:19,799
Speaker 1: I can understandtand that to the extent that I understand it.

1174
00:55:19,800 --> 00:55:23,000
Speaker 1: It's very frustrating, but I can certainly understand it. Yeah,

1175
00:55:23,239 --> 00:55:25,719
Speaker 1: you know, my dad, it's funny. He just popped into

1176
00:55:25,719 --> 00:55:29,200
Speaker 1: my head. My dad was an officer in the Air

1177
00:55:29,239 --> 00:55:31,759
Speaker 1: Force that got the rough side of Mike Lions tongue,

1178
00:55:31,760 --> 00:55:34,680
Speaker 1: didn't it the chair Force anyway, No disrespect to Air

1179
00:55:34,719 --> 00:55:37,160
Speaker 1: Force guys. That's an old joke anyway. Um, But my

1180
00:55:37,239 --> 00:55:40,399
Speaker 1: dad was an Air Force officer and he did not

1181
00:55:40,680 --> 00:55:44,680
Speaker 1: encourage me to get into the military. Um. He talked

1182
00:55:44,680 --> 00:55:47,320
Speaker 1: a little bit about how some of his commanding officers

1183
00:55:47,719 --> 00:55:53,160
Speaker 1: were arbitrary and and and he just felt like there

1184
00:55:53,200 --> 00:55:55,400
Speaker 1: was a real lack of justice in it. And it

1185
00:55:55,520 --> 00:55:57,719
Speaker 1: felt like a gamble because you'd come across some sort

1186
00:55:57,800 --> 00:55:59,560
Speaker 1: of a bit you didn't like you and he put

1187
00:55:59,560 --> 00:56:01,439
Speaker 1: a black market and your rector and all it takes

1188
00:56:01,440 --> 00:56:03,600
Speaker 1: is one black mark. I'm aware of that. My brothers

1189
00:56:03,600 --> 00:56:06,719
Speaker 1: had those experiences definitely. Well, what's funny is I the

1190
00:56:06,719 --> 00:56:09,000
Speaker 1: black sheep of the family. The older brother decided that

1191
00:56:09,080 --> 00:56:10,880
Speaker 1: wasn't for me. Plus there was a whole pot thing.

1192
00:56:11,320 --> 00:56:14,720
Speaker 1: Um uh. But my little brother is going to retire

1193
00:56:14,760 --> 00:56:18,200
Speaker 1: after a twenty year plus military career and has done

1194
00:56:18,200 --> 00:56:21,600
Speaker 1: great and and somehow avoided the black mark, probably because

1195
00:56:21,640 --> 00:56:24,560
Speaker 1: he got the good jeans. I got the rotten jeans. Um.

1196
00:56:24,680 --> 00:56:27,719
Speaker 1: But he's had a mostly really positive experience being in

1197
00:56:27,760 --> 00:56:29,719
Speaker 1: the military. On the other hand, you know, he's a

1198
00:56:29,719 --> 00:56:32,040
Speaker 1: he's a navy guy, he's a submariner, and and that's

1199
00:56:32,040 --> 00:56:35,480
Speaker 1: a very very different experience than being an infantry in

1200
00:56:36,040 --> 00:56:40,160
Speaker 1: the early century. Um. I remember my brother and my

1201
00:56:40,239 --> 00:56:42,880
Speaker 1: dad talking about this one time because my dad, my

1202
00:56:42,960 --> 00:56:45,080
Speaker 1: dad asked my brother, he said, could they punch you

1203
00:56:45,840 --> 00:56:49,200
Speaker 1: in basic training? My brother said no. He said, when

1204
00:56:49,200 --> 00:56:51,200
Speaker 1: I wasn't basic training, they could punch you, but they

1205
00:56:51,200 --> 00:56:53,640
Speaker 1: had to ask you first. The dad said, My dad

1206
00:56:53,640 --> 00:56:55,640
Speaker 1: said that. He said they had changed that because they

1207
00:56:55,719 --> 00:56:58,879
Speaker 1: used to be able to just punch you, so they

1208
00:56:58,960 --> 00:57:01,560
Speaker 1: could just is walk up and punch in the face.

1209
00:57:01,960 --> 00:57:04,240
Speaker 1: Then there is some sort of changes we got soft

1210
00:57:04,280 --> 00:57:06,759
Speaker 1: apparently in the late fifties, early sixties. They had to

1211
00:57:06,800 --> 00:57:09,960
Speaker 1: ask you. Of course you had to say yes because you're,

1212
00:57:10,000 --> 00:57:12,759
Speaker 1: you know, primate armstrong man. Punch you in the face

1213
00:57:12,760 --> 00:57:17,400
Speaker 1: and get punished if you did, sir. You know they

1214
00:57:17,440 --> 00:57:21,800
Speaker 1: can't punch you at all, you know. We That's another

1215
00:57:21,840 --> 00:57:24,200
Speaker 1: thing we could have talked to Mike about was military discipline,

1216
00:57:24,200 --> 00:57:27,640
Speaker 1: how it's changed. He made mention of the fat farm thing, um,

1217
00:57:27,720 --> 00:57:31,320
Speaker 1: so obviously it has changed. That's something. Anyway. I hope

1218
00:57:31,320 --> 00:57:33,200
Speaker 1: you enjoyed the conversation I did. You're here