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Speaker 1: Welcome to Prognosis. I'm Laura Carlson. It's stay sixty two

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Speaker 1: since coronavirus was declared a global pandemic. Our main story.

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Speaker 1: As the pandemic rages on, shelter in place orders have

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Speaker 1: stretched from weeks two months for some. It's causing distance

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Speaker 1: fatigue and inspiring people to search for safe ways to

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Speaker 1: bend the rules. An epidemiologist explains how to think about

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Speaker 1: the risks of cutting corners while social distancing. But first,

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Speaker 1: here's what happened today. In testimony before it Senate panel today,

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Speaker 1: Anthony Fauci, the top infectious disease official in the US,

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Speaker 1: strongly warned against reopening the economy too soon. Fauci said

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Speaker 1: he's concerned about cities and states resuming business without reaching

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Speaker 1: checkpoints outlined in the White House guidelines for deciding when

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Speaker 1: it's safe. Those checkpoints include things like declining infections. Fauci

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Speaker 1: said a premature reopening would trigger outbreaks that could spiral

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Speaker 1: out of control. Not only would that lead to avoidable

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Speaker 1: suffering and death, he said, but it would set back

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Speaker 1: an economic recovery and quote turn the clock back rather

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Speaker 1: than going forward. Fauci's call for caution puts him in

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Speaker 1: direct conflict with President Donald Trump's race to ease restrictions

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Speaker 1: that have crushed the economy. Elsewhere, some governments are exercising

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Speaker 1: extreme caution. Wuhan has ordered officials to test its entire

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Speaker 1: population of eleven million people. That's after a handful of

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Speaker 1: new coronavirus cases were detected in the central Chinese city

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Speaker 1: where the pandemic began. They were the first positive tests

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Speaker 1: reported since the city's lockdown was lifted in early May.

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Speaker 1: Six people who were already under quarantine in the same

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Speaker 1: residential compound and who are asymptomatic tested positive. Sweden will

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Speaker 1: adjust a key element of its strategy for dealing with

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Speaker 1: COVID nineteen after the death rate at elder care homes

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Speaker 1: shot up. The government will ratchet up staff levels to

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Speaker 1: help protect the country's oldest citizens. Like elsewhere, Sweden's COVID

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Speaker 1: nineteen related deaths have disproportionately hit the elderly, but critics

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Speaker 1: argue that many of those fatalities could have been avoided

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Speaker 1: if the authorities had taken more steps to focus attention

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Speaker 1: on the most vulnerable demographic. Finally, back in the US House,

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Speaker 1: democrats proposed a three trillion dollar virus relief built today.

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Speaker 1: The bill would offer aid to state in local governments,

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Speaker 1: direct cash payments, expanded unemployment insurance, and food stamp spending.

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Speaker 1: It also included a list of progressive priorities, like funds

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Speaker 1: for voting by mail and for the troubled US postal service.

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Speaker 1: The bill comes after Congress has already spent three trillion

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Speaker 1: dollars on four bills in response to the economic downturn

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Speaker 1: caused by the coronavirus pandemic. There is a little chance

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Speaker 1: of the aid package in its current form getting Senate

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Speaker 1: approval and President Donald Trump's signature, but by passing it

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Speaker 1: in the House, Speaker Nancy Pelosi will set down a

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Speaker 1: marker as both parties positioned themselves for congressional elections in

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Speaker 1: a few months. And now our main story. We're over

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Speaker 1: two months into the global pandemic, and communities everywhere have

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Speaker 1: been facing restrictions like shelter in place for a long time,

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Speaker 1: and some have begun looking for ways to get around

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Speaker 1: some of the more onerous social distancing orders. That's especially

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Speaker 1: true is the weather warms up in the US over

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Speaker 1: the last few weeks. Bloomberg reporter Kristen V. Brown has

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Speaker 1: been collecting your questions about social distancing etiquette, and she

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Speaker 1: brought them to an expert to clear up the confusion.

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Speaker 1: Here's Kristen with more. Like a lot of people, I've

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Speaker 1: been spending a fair amount of time each day having

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Speaker 1: conversations with friends and colleagues about risk. I live in Oakland, California,

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Speaker 1: and my county was one of the first in the

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Speaker 1: country to implement shelter in place orders. The rules seemed

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Speaker 1: pretty black and white on the surface. Don't leave home

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Speaker 1: unless it's for something necessary like exercise or going to

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Speaker 1: the store. Don't hang out with people you don't live with.

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Speaker 1: Just don't put yourself at risk of catching COVID nineteen

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Speaker 1: if you don't need to. But then real life happened.

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Speaker 1: For example, my roommate pointed out that I go to

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Speaker 1: the grocery store a lot. It's necessary to go get food, sure,

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Speaker 1: but probably not actually necessary for me to go to

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Speaker 1: Whole Foods every time I think of something new I

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Speaker 1: want to bake every day for the last two months,

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Speaker 1: it seems like we are constantly making these micro risk calculations.

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Speaker 1: It's just not always obvious what the right decision is

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Speaker 1: and when we do know what's right. Even though we

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Speaker 1: all want to do our part, sometimes it's hard. A

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Speaker 1: lot of our listeners had questions too, so we turned

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Speaker 1: those questions over to Bill Schaeffer, an epidemiologist at Vanderbilt

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Speaker 1: University in Tennessee. Bill says, handerstands why everything feels so

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Speaker 1: confusing right now. So under the strict lockdown phase shelter

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Speaker 1: at home phase, it was difficult enough with all these questions.

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Speaker 1: It's just gotten even more difficult because many states are

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Speaker 1: now starting to open up in various ways. States are

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Speaker 1: doing it differently, and within my own state, the rural

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Speaker 1: areas are ahead of the cities and we're still unlocked

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Speaker 1: up mode, so there'll be even more opportunities for confusion.

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Speaker 1: And as you say, people are trying to take these

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Speaker 1: general guidelines and apply them to their own specific circumstances,

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Speaker 1: and we can tie ourselves into nuts doing this. So

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Speaker 1: the first listener question we posed a Bill was from Julia,

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Speaker 1: who has two related questions. Julia lives with her friends

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Speaker 1: a couple, but she is single and she had been

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Speaker 1: casually dating a guy for a few months. Once lockdown

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Speaker 1: set in, she wanted to go COVID exclusive with the guy.

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Speaker 1: And keep seeing him. But her roommates weren't okay with it.

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Speaker 1: At the same time, they were okay with her volunteering,

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Speaker 1: and she was confused about which activity was actually riskier.

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Speaker 1: I'll let her take it from here. So since then

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Speaker 1: I got involved with a project to make face shields

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Speaker 1: for healthcare workers. And each day Monday through Friday, I

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Speaker 1: go to an office with about twenty others, and they're

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Speaker 1: not always the exact same people. We're mindful of keeping

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Speaker 1: our distance and wearing masks, but we are handling the

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Speaker 1: same applies, and we can't wear gloves with this project

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Speaker 1: because we're doing really precise crafting work. So my question

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Speaker 1: is which is riskier from an infection standpoint, sleeping and

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Speaker 1: hanging out with a guy even though he's having other

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Speaker 1: dates over however he does live alone, or doing this

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Speaker 1: much more noble activity of making masks with a team

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Speaker 1: of people every day. All right, I'm very curious to

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Speaker 1: hear what you say. I so I thought, actually that

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Speaker 1: was among the easier questions. First of all, you can

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Speaker 1: define mask making as an essential activity, and so that

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Speaker 1: gives you the okay to go there. Now, on the

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Speaker 1: way there, you want to wear the mask yourself while

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Speaker 1: you're in that congregate environment making the masks. You ought

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Speaker 1: to be wearing the masks and using good hygiene, and

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Speaker 1: separated by six ft from your other personnel. Wear the

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Speaker 1: mask coming home, and when you come home, wash your

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Speaker 1: hands very, very thoroughly. Now the dating issue is a

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Speaker 1: completely different one. The A it's not an essential activity.

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Speaker 1: B you can't stay six ft away from your date.

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Speaker 1: Three you really can't control your dates activity, so you

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Speaker 1: don't know how how compliant your your date has been.

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Speaker 1: This is a period of time when ruled dates are

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Speaker 1: the way to go. We're supposed to stay at home

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Speaker 1: except for essential activities. And if you're out dating someone,

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Speaker 1: then you come home and the people with whom you live,

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Speaker 1: you're putting them at risk. So, uh, staying at home,

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Speaker 1: sheltering in place was a very serious recommendation. It doesn't

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Speaker 1: say if you don't feel like sorry, Julian, I guess

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Speaker 1: it's zoom dates for now. Here's the next question. It's

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Speaker 1: also about dating. From Bernie in Toronto. He's divorced with kids,

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Speaker 1: and his children split their time between their father and

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Speaker 1: their mother. He also has a longtime girlfriend. She's divorced

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Speaker 1: and her kids moved back and forth from one house

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Speaker 1: to the other house, and yet since the beginning of

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Speaker 1: this I have not seen her. So am I allowed

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Speaker 1: to see her? We've been physical distance saying and being

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Speaker 1: very careful about everything we do from the grocery store, etcetera.

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Speaker 1: And I miss her. Sore to hear your answer, thank you.

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Speaker 1: Personal relationships are going to be strained. They're difficult under

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Speaker 1: uh strict sheltering at home time. Because it's really quite

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Speaker 1: clear the answer to that. Under a sheltering at home

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Speaker 1: circumstance is you will have face time with your new girlfriend,

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Speaker 1: but you will not see her in person until the

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Speaker 1: sheltering at home phase ends, and then you can start

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Speaker 1: seeing people again. That's really a pretty straightforward circumstance. Obviously,

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Speaker 1: a lot of parents have been having a hard time

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Speaker 1: to working from home while also keeping an eye on

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Speaker 1: the kids can be a lot still. Our next listener

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Speaker 1: has been playing by the rules and asked their babysitter

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Speaker 1: to stop watching the kids, but a friend that they

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Speaker 1: share the baby sit are with recently decided to ask

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Speaker 1: the babysitter to come back to work. Our listener didn't

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Speaker 1: know what to do. Did this mean it was safe

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Speaker 1: to have the babysitter come back to their house too,

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Speaker 1: or do they need to intervene and ask their friend

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Speaker 1: to stop. Are we in the wrong here thinking that

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Speaker 1: it's a little too soon to be trying to get

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Speaker 1: back to normal and bring a babysitter back into the equation?

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Speaker 1: Should we be more insistent with our friends that they

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Speaker 1: lay off for a little while longer and trying to

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Speaker 1: make do without a babysitter because it affects us to

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Speaker 1: and the people in our apartment building if they bring

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Speaker 1: back our babysitter before thanks sir a little calmer, or

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Speaker 1: do we just need to leave well enough alone, respect

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Speaker 1: their decision and make our own choices based on based

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Speaker 1: on what we feel comfortable about. That's it. So, if

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Speaker 1: you're in a lockdown mode, then having that person come

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Speaker 1: into your house where they're also been with others clearly

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Speaker 1: is not what's being recommended. This is a circumstance where

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Speaker 1: you and the family are to shelter at home as

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Speaker 1: as a family unit and not have visitors nor go

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Speaker 1: out except on essential functions. Now, as we open up

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Speaker 1: and move into phase one and phase two of opening up, obviously,

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Speaker 1: then people can go out and visit and that may

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Speaker 1: be a time when they can share uh the babysitter.

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Speaker 1: Of course, they'll want to make sure that the babysitter

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Speaker 1: is healthy, doesn't have a fever, and has also been

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Speaker 1: uh sheltering at home and taking care of herself and

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Speaker 1: complying with all the guidelines. So you may be sensing

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Speaker 1: a pattern here. Bill says, the rules are there for

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Speaker 1: a reason, don't break them. I try to hard to

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Speaker 1: get Bill to acknowledge some sort of gray area in

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Speaker 1: these scenarios. I even asked another epidemiologist for a second opinion.

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Speaker 1: His answers were the same as Bills. I asked Bill,

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Speaker 1: why so many of us are having such a hard

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Speaker 1: time with these rules. We're Americans, were very individual oriented.

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Speaker 1: We always look for the exceptions or saying does that

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Speaker 1: really apply to me? It's part of our American very individualistic,

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Speaker 1: wonderfully individualistic nature. How can I go out to the

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Speaker 1: edge of this and maybe step a little bit on

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Speaker 1: the other side. Bill acknowledges that doing the right thing

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Speaker 1: isn't always easy in these times. This virus doesn't care

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Speaker 1: about our social, financial, economic, and cultural needs. It's going

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Speaker 1: to affect people, and it will make some people very

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Speaker 1: very ill. How we balance that is very very difficult.

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Speaker 1: As I like to say, there are no right answers,

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Speaker 1: they're only very difficult answers. Bill gets it. There are

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Speaker 1: some things he really misses too. I really miss going

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Speaker 1: to the library. Oh I'm a withdrawal from that. So

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Speaker 1: there you have it. There really isn't as much gray

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Speaker 1: area as we might like to tell ourselves during these horrible,

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Speaker 1: weird times. But if we follow these rules, at least

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Speaker 1: we can know we're doing everything in our power to

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Speaker 1: help get things under control. By the way, if you

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Speaker 1: have any more questions about social distancing, etiquette, or anything

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Speaker 1: else during these confusing times, please give us a call

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Speaker 1: and leave a voicemail at six or six four zero.

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Speaker 1: If you leave a voicemail, we might play your message

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Speaker 1: on the show. That was Bloomberg's Chris and v Brown

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Speaker 1: and that's our show today. For coverage of the outbreak

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Speaker 1: from one and twenty bureaus around the world, visit bloomberg

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Speaker 1: dot com Flash Coronavirus, and if you like the show,

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Speaker 1: please leave us a review and a rating on Apple

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Speaker 1: Podcasts or Spotify. It's the best way to help more

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Speaker 1: listeners find our global reporting The Prognosis Daily edition is

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Speaker 1: hosted by me Laura Carlson. The show is produced by

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Speaker 1: me To for Foreheads, Jordan Gospoure and Magnus Hendrickson. Today's

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Speaker 1: main story was reported by Kristen V. Brown. Original music

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Speaker 1: by Leo Sidrin. Our editors are Francesca Levi and Rick Shine.

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Speaker 1: Francesco Levy is Bloomberg's head of podcasts. Thanks for listening

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Speaker 1: in the l