Speaker 1: You're listening to Part Time Genius, the production of Kaleidoscope
Speaker 1: and iHeartRadio. Guess what Will?
Speaker 2: What's that mango?
Speaker 1: So there are all sorts of weird things I didn't
Speaker 1: know about bald eagles before this week. Apparently our national
Speaker 1: bird can swim. Did you know this?
Speaker 2: I did not know this.
Speaker 1: Yeah. I found this video on YouTube where the bird
Speaker 1: just lands in the water and then kind of does
Speaker 1: like a butterfly stroke. It's amazing to watch, and apparently
Speaker 1: they can swim for pretty long distances. Also, I didn't
Speaker 1: realize that bald eagles have a third eyelid. It's like
Speaker 1: a clear membrane that almost acts like safety goggles, so
Speaker 1: it can see underwater when it's catching fish or when
Speaker 1: flying through debris. But the weirdest thing I learned about
Speaker 1: the bald eagle is that when it squawks, it kind
Speaker 1: of actually let me just play this club.
Speaker 2: Wait, so that's what an eagle sounds like?
Speaker 1: Yeah, that is the sound of an eagle roaring.
Speaker 2: I don't know mega that sounds more like a seagull
Speaker 2: if you ask me, I know.
Speaker 1: I was so stunned. So I looked into it a
Speaker 1: little more. And here's a quote from a site I
Speaker 1: like called bird Note. Watch Stephen Colbert and the Colbert Report,
Speaker 1: and you'll see a bald eagle streak across the screen, screaming,
Speaker 1: talents outstretched, ferocious, majestic. But in the spirit of truthiness,
Speaker 1: we must declare that the bird you hear is not
Speaker 1: a bald eagle, but a red tailed hawk.
Speaker 2: So nice.
Speaker 1: Apparently, editors since the early days of Hollywood decided to
Speaker 1: switch out the eagles cry because it was a little
Speaker 1: too pip squeaky and the sound wasn't medacing or patriotic enough,
Speaker 1: so they regularly switch it out for the red tailed hawk.
Speaker 1: Isn't that nuts?
Speaker 2: That's wild? But actually, now that you say that, I
Speaker 2: feel like I remember it and I will never forget
Speaker 2: that whole intro to that show as many years as
Speaker 2: it's been since it's been on. It was so good.
Speaker 1: Well, that is just the first of a whole bunch
Speaker 1: of eagle facts we've got today, So let's dive in.
Speaker 2: Hey, their podcast listeners, welcome to Part Time Genius. I'm
Speaker 2: Will Pearson and as always I've got my good friend
Speaker 2: Mango here and sitting on the other side of that
Speaker 2: big booth, that's Dylan now I'm trying to figure out
Speaker 2: what he's doing back there. He appears to be lining
Speaker 2: up a bunch of Are those two pays? Mango?
Speaker 1: So apparently when Dylan heard we were doing an episode
Speaker 1: on bald eagles, he realized what a coincidence it is,
Speaker 1: because he's actually got an Etsy shop that sells two
Speaker 1: pays for bald eagles.
Speaker 2: Wow, that is so cool.
Speaker 1: And I guess he told me the hair pieces boost
Speaker 1: that bird's confidence, So he's got to do the Lord's
Speaker 1: work here.
Speaker 2: He's so enterprising that Dylan. Now, obviously this week is
Speaker 2: July the fourth, and it feels fitting that, of course
Speaker 2: we're doing this show on bald eagles.
Speaker 1: So I'm curious, have you ever seen bald eagles in
Speaker 1: the wild.
Speaker 2: Well, as you know, Mango, I have relatives that live
Speaker 2: in rural Virginia, just about an hour or so south
Speaker 2: of Charlotte's Full there, and it's one of my favorite
Speaker 2: places to go in the country and just be out
Speaker 2: in the middle of nowhere. And we would sit at
Speaker 2: my aunt Barbara's house, and we would always look across
Speaker 2: this farm out over into these mountains, and they would
Speaker 2: always point out these couple of eagles nests there, these
Speaker 2: bald eagle nests, and I always loved watching them, so yes,
Speaker 2: I have actually, so how about you?
Speaker 1: That is really cool. I you know, when Lizzie and
Speaker 1: I were first dating, we went to the Pacific Northwest
Speaker 1: and we drove up from Portland to the San Juan
Speaker 1: Islands and this guy at this inn we stayed that
Speaker 1: would gin up this bald eagle show at night for you,
Speaker 1: And it was just spectacular. I was really charmed by
Speaker 1: like the wildlife and landscape and just the birds I
Speaker 1: thought were so beautiful.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's pretty amazing. And obviously the eagle is one
Speaker 2: of our national symbols as a mayor Americans. But one
Speaker 2: of the things we should address right at the top
Speaker 2: of this episode is the one person who had zero
Speaker 2: respect for the bald eagle, and interestingly, that's our founding father,
Speaker 2: Benjamin Franklin.
Speaker 1: Yeah, there's the whole thing, how he wanted a turkey
Speaker 1: as a national bird, right.
Speaker 2: Well, you know, it's an interesting story because I've heard
Speaker 2: that fact a lot, so I decided to look into
Speaker 2: this a little bit more. And it's definitely true that
Speaker 2: Franklin didn't have much respect for the bald eagle. And
Speaker 2: I've read a few different accounts of this, but this
Speaker 2: is from Ken Zersky's unremembered blog, and in it he
Speaker 2: talks about how back in seventeen seventy five, as the
Speaker 2: founding fathers were trying to figure out what symbol had
Speaker 2: the quote temper and Conduct of America, which is a
Speaker 2: big task to try to figure this out, Ben Franklin
Speaker 2: was dismissive of the eagle. In this letter he wrote
Speaker 2: to his daughter, he says the bald eagle is a
Speaker 2: bird of bad moral character. He does not get his
Speaker 2: living honestly, referring to how the bird is a scavenger
Speaker 2: and also how it sometimes steals food from other birds midair.
Speaker 2: So I guess I kind of see the first. Yeah,
Speaker 2: but that takes a lot of skill. He's like a
Speaker 2: you know, a skilled thief. Yeah, I guess that's true.
Speaker 2: But I don't know if we wanted a skilled thief,
Speaker 2: as you know, as our national symbol. And Franklin considered
Speaker 2: the eagle and his words quote a rank coward like,
Speaker 2: I don't know if you noticed by these words he
Speaker 2: is not a fan of the eagle. So instead he
Speaker 2: suggested an animal that quote never begins an attack, nor
Speaker 2: once engaged ever surrenders. She is therefore an emblem of
Speaker 2: magnanimity and true courage. So that's what we're looking for.
Speaker 2: It's a lot of pressure. And I'm certain you won't
Speaker 2: guess what animal he wanted to be America's national symbol.
Speaker 2: It's actually the rattlesnake.
Speaker 1: That is so crazy. He thought the bald eagle had
Speaker 1: no character, but he wanted a snake to represent the US.
Speaker 2: Isn't that weird? And it kind of makes me think
Speaker 2: of the whole like, don't treat on me flag, I guess.
Speaker 1: Yeah. So, so where'd the whole Turkey thing come from?
Speaker 2: Well, this is from a mix of the Wall Street
Speaker 2: Journal and the Unremembered site that I mentioned before. But
Speaker 2: the Turkey story comes from Ben Franklin being irritated by
Speaker 2: this Society of the Cincinnati which this was the organization
Speaker 2: or fraternity that honored revolutionary War heroes and officers, and
Speaker 2: so the club seal had an eagle on it, and
Speaker 2: Franklin was apparently annoyed that he hadn't been offered membership,
Speaker 2: so he wrote a little diatribe about the bald eagle,
Speaker 2: which he thought looked like a Turkey and the seal's drawing,
Speaker 2: and then he joked that even though the turkey is
Speaker 2: quote vain and silly, it will be a better and
Speaker 2: more respectable mascot for America. But the most interesting part
Speaker 2: is that this is from a letter to his daughter
Speaker 2: that he never actually sent but kept for his archives.
Speaker 2: So likely he thought the lines were funny enough to
Speaker 2: be preserved, and I guess they have been over the years.
Speaker 1: Well, speaking of historic figures, we should definitely talk about
Speaker 1: America's best known bird watcher, John J. Audubon, who, like Franklin,
Speaker 1: had total contempt for the bald eagle.
Speaker 2: Really I knew so I'd known this about Franklin, but
Speaker 2: but did not know this about Ottoman. Why did he
Speaker 2: not like eagles?
Speaker 1: So it's kind of for the same reason Franklin didn't.
Speaker 1: This comes from the historian Jack Davis's book The Bald
Speaker 1: Eagle Improbable Journey of America's Bird, which is terrific, But
Speaker 1: apparently Audubon once wrote, suffered me kind reader to say
Speaker 1: how much I grieved that the bald eagles should have
Speaker 1: been selected as the emblem of my country. Audubon saw
Speaker 1: the creatures as cowards and tyrants. And he actually enjoyed
Speaker 1: shooting and killing the birds with his fowling gun.
Speaker 2: Wow, so he actually did enjoy killing them.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: In fact, the Atlantic is even blunter about it. They
Speaker 1: wrote Audubon wrote loathingly of eagles and did not miss
Speaker 1: an opportunity to murder them. But also Audubon didn't actually
Speaker 1: stop there. After shooting the eagles, often around their nests,
Speaker 1: he would then take the baby eaglitz and eat them.
Speaker 1: He called baby bald eagles good eating and wrote the
Speaker 1: flesh resembles veal in taste and tenderness veal. I mean,
Speaker 1: that's from America's most famous birdwatcher and bird taster, John
Speaker 1: Jay Ottobon.
Speaker 2: I mean, it's not entirely surprising that Ottobon shot the birds.
Speaker 2: I do remember, for mental flaws that he shot most
Speaker 2: of the birds that he drew because he had them
Speaker 2: tax at ermie and mounted on branches before he would
Speaker 2: illustrate them. That would allow him to draw them more accurately.
Speaker 2: I guess, yeah. I mean, I don't know that he
Speaker 2: ate all those other birds that he shot. But what's interesting,
Speaker 2: and this is another fact I didn't know. But in
Speaker 2: his book, Davis points out that while Americans worshiped the
Speaker 2: bald eagle as this national icon, they didn't really respect
Speaker 2: the creature in the real world. So early settlers killed
Speaker 2: the birds to feed their hogs. Also, eagles competed with
Speaker 2: hunters for small game. They were a nuisance to livestock,
Speaker 2: so until the middle of the twentieth century when they
Speaker 2: started going extinct, they were really treated like pests, not
Speaker 2: unlike rats, foxes, or wolves, and Americans used to kill
Speaker 2: them as such. In fact, Davis found that there used
Speaker 2: to be cash bounties for eagle talons. I guess people
Speaker 2: thought the claws were valuable. But when he looked at
Speaker 2: newspaper databases for bald eagle shootings between eighteen fifty and
Speaker 2: nineteen twenty, he got over one hundred and eighty thousand
Speaker 2: instances of killed birds. Oh wow, Actually this makes me
Speaker 2: rethink Dylan's two pay thing, Like, maybe they're not so
Speaker 2: much about making these bald eagles more confident, but maybe
Speaker 2: about disguising them as.
Speaker 1: Other birds protection.
Speaker 2: Yeah, we should look into this a little bit more.
Speaker 2: There may be more to it, but I do want
Speaker 2: to talk about the conservation efforts and how bald eagles
Speaker 2: got to be protected. But before that, let's hit just
Speaker 2: one more point about how the bald eagle became our
Speaker 2: national mascot. So eagles, as Davis pointed out in his book,
Speaker 2: have this rich history of being seen as majestic birds.
Speaker 2: You think way back to mythology. Zeus had one as
Speaker 2: a companion. Eagles served as a messenger to Jupiter, and
Speaker 2: were used as an emblem of the Roman legion. You've
Speaker 2: got Charlemagne, Napoleon, Saladin all used eagles and coats of arms,
Speaker 2: and as Davis points out, the Founding Fathers were no
Speaker 2: strangers to lift ideas from the Greeks and Romans and
Speaker 2: other civilizations. But the question is why did they go
Speaker 2: with the bald eagle, Because the Founding Fathers could have
Speaker 2: gone with the golden eagle. Unlike the bald eagle, the
Speaker 2: golden eagle isn't a thief. It catches its own prey.
Speaker 2: It's super strong, it's powerful enough to attack larger animals
Speaker 2: like deer or antelope on rare occasions. But it's precisely
Speaker 2: because the golden eagle exists in other countries and continents
Speaker 2: and had already been used as a symbol of so
Speaker 2: many other armies. And emperors. They decided they wanted a
Speaker 2: variation that was truly American, and that's where we came
Speaker 2: up with the bald eagle.
Speaker 1: Oh, I guess I hadn't thought of that. The bald
Speaker 1: eagle does feel uniquely American, even if it's a bit
Speaker 1: of a scoundrel.
Speaker 2: But right.
Speaker 1: One thing I found interesting is that there's at least
Speaker 1: one real live bald eagle who got some respect before
Speaker 1: they became a protected species, and that's a bird named
Speaker 1: old Abe so Abe, I guess was adopted by Ajibwa
Speaker 1: Indian chief in the eighteen hundreds. This is after the
Speaker 1: tribe had cut down a tree and the eagle had
Speaker 1: been roosting in it, so the chief took it in
Speaker 1: and then traded the bird to a Wisconsin tavern owner.
Speaker 1: And when the Civil War started, a company of Union
Speaker 1: soldiers adopted him as their mascot and they trained him,
Speaker 1: which I didn't actually realize you could do. But among
Speaker 1: Abe's tricks, he could sign autographs, he could dance to
Speaker 1: a fiddle, he could shake hands with the talon, and
Speaker 1: also kill a chicken on command. So very useful.
Speaker 2: God, as you wonder how many times they put him
Speaker 2: up to that trick.
Speaker 1: They're shaking hands. I'm sure he did all the time, right.
Speaker 1: He also went into battle with the company, and apparently
Speaker 1: the Confederate soldiers saw Abe as a prize, so according
Speaker 1: to the Atlantic, they vowed to take the eagle dead
Speaker 1: or alive. He was even shot twice in battle but survived,
Speaker 1: and even General Grant and General Sherman respected Abe so
Speaker 1: much that they would tip their hats to him when
Speaker 1: they saw him.
Speaker 2: Wow, I like that. Finally a bald eagle getting some
Speaker 2: real respect. Here. Here's a myth I think we need
Speaker 2: to dispel. It's that bald eagles are baby snatchers, because
Speaker 2: this could not be further from the truth. So people
Speaker 2: think bald eagles go after babies. Yeah, Actually the baby
Speaker 2: snatching thing is part of why people shot bald eagles.
Speaker 2: Apparently this is from the Wall Street Journal. Americans believed
Speaker 2: birds would regularly steal lambs, pigs, and calves, and there
Speaker 2: were stories about them swooping down to steal babies for snacks,
Speaker 2: which is a little bit bit weird, you know, snack
Speaker 2: on a baby, And it was already something that people
Speaker 2: gossiped about, but the myth got further perpetuated by this
Speaker 2: early silent movie from nineteen oh eight called Rescued from
Speaker 2: an Eagle's Nest. I had never heard of this before,
Speaker 2: and it has this incredible image of an eagle taking
Speaker 2: off with a baby twice its size, and then the
Speaker 2: parents basically hunting the bird and getting their baby back. Actually,
Speaker 2: here I'll show you this still from the movie. Isn't
Speaker 2: this crazy? This is not It's amazing.
Speaker 1: It's so funny how fake it looks now, But like
Speaker 1: obviously it com people at the time. That baby is huge.
Speaker 2: It's a gigantic baby. It steals giant babies, not just babies.
Speaker 2: But it was look I guess good eating here. But
Speaker 2: here's the thing is Davis points out in his book
Speaker 2: bald eagles max out at about fourteen pounds and they
Speaker 2: can't really lift more than five pound weights, which is interesting.
Speaker 2: I would have thought they could have lifted much more.
Speaker 2: I get them in the gym, yes, exactly, so maybe
Speaker 2: they can take off with like a tiny cat or
Speaker 2: something like that. But they are not stealing babies or
Speaker 2: lambs or calves. Their diet is fish and for good reason,
Speaker 2: and that's part of the reason they scavenge. They're these
Speaker 2: big beautiful creatures, but they aren't going to fly off
Speaker 2: with your toddler, So you can check that concern off
Speaker 2: the list.
Speaker 1: Well, I know we've got plenty more facts, but before
Speaker 1: we get to that, let's take a quick break.
Speaker 2: Welcome back to Part Time Genius, where we're discussing all
Speaker 2: things bald eagle. So, Mango, where do you want to
Speaker 2: go next?
Speaker 1: Well, before we get into more real facts about bald eagles,
Speaker 1: one thing I was thinking about was you know that
Speaker 1: character Sam the Eagle from the Muppets. Of course, yeah,
Speaker 1: so this is a total aside, but when we introduced
Speaker 1: Henry to the Muppets when he was a kid, he
Speaker 1: was completely obsessed, like totally obsessed with Sam the Eagle
Speaker 1: of all the characters. And then he'd be like, that
Speaker 1: guy is the best.
Speaker 3: He's so funny, and we were like that, are you
Speaker 3: sure that's the one you're choosing, And obviously, like kids
Speaker 3: love like Chaos Muppets, right, like Gonzo Deeker and Swedish Chef.
Speaker 1: But like you'd be like, Nope, that's the funny one.
Speaker 2: I like that one.
Speaker 1: And of course, you know, when you grew up, Henry
Speaker 1: thinks all rules are ridiculous and laughable, So I guess
Speaker 1: it kind of makes sense. But I was looking up
Speaker 1: Sam the Eagle just because I loved be fun and
Speaker 1: he's a character that Frank Oz played, But I found
Speaker 1: some funny bits about his lord or when is that?
Speaker 1: In a serious XM interview he did. Sam admitted that
Speaker 1: he has two kids in college, but to his disgust,
Speaker 1: both have been total disappointments. His son measured in taxidermy
Speaker 1: and his daughter is dating an owl, so I thought
Speaker 1: that was silly.
Speaker 2: But that's pretty great.
Speaker 1: But I also hadn't picked up on this, like he's
Speaker 1: so serious and official that I didn't realize they'd written
Speaker 1: the character as kind of a buffoon. And I read
Speaker 1: that in an early episode of The Muppet Show that
Speaker 1: great ballet dancer Nuria Rudolph Nuriev was on and Sam
Speaker 1: praises him as his favorite opera singer, and when Doria
Speaker 1: corrects him and tells him he's a dancer of Sam
Speaker 1: kind of shrugs and says, culture is culture. I love that.
Speaker 1: I feel like I feel like every time I say
Speaker 1: something stupid about art, now I'm just gonna be like,
Speaker 1: culture is culture, man.
Speaker 2: Culture's culture. Yeah, that's that's the way it is, all right?
Speaker 2: So what fact are you going to end on here, Mango?
Speaker 1: Well, I kind of want to give bald eagles a
Speaker 1: bit of their due, you know, And there are so
Speaker 1: many wonderful facts about bald eagles. They build giant nests.
Speaker 1: According to the Pennsylvania Game Commission, they can build nests
Speaker 1: that are eight feet wide, twelve feet high and weigh
Speaker 1: more than two tons, which is massive. Bald eagles can
Speaker 1: fly up to ninety nine miles per hour, and their
Speaker 1: eyesight is obviously remarkable. They can spot a rabbit from
Speaker 1: about three miles away. But the thing I like most
Speaker 1: about bald eagles is that they are total love birds.
Speaker 1: They are monogamous and mate for life, and according to
Speaker 1: the Ottoman Society quote, their spectacular courtship rituals are a
Speaker 1: site to see, with the birds locking talons, then flipping,
Speaker 1: spinning and twirling through the air in a maneuver called
Speaker 1: the cartwheel display. They break apart seemingly at the last
Speaker 1: moment just before hitting the ground, which you know, somehow
Speaker 1: makes it seem like they're truly madly in love.
Speaker 2: Oh wow, I guess that's one thing Ben Franklin cannot
Speaker 2: fault them.
Speaker 1: For being in love. So what's your last fact.
Speaker 2: Well, I mentioned I wanted to talk a little bit
Speaker 2: about how we brought the bald eagle population from the
Speaker 2: brink of extinction. So this is actually straight from a
Speaker 2: house stuff Works article. But back in seventeen eighty two,
Speaker 2: when the bald eagle was put on the National Seal,
Speaker 2: there were about one hundred thousand nesting pairs living in
Speaker 2: the United States and northern Mexico. But by nineteen sixty
Speaker 2: three there were only about four hundred and seventeen nesting pairs.
Speaker 2: Wow or forty eight states. Yeah, so huge decline there.
Speaker 2: And the truth is that this is after some of
Speaker 2: the conservation efforts had already begun, so they were definitely
Speaker 2: very much at risk. And the Bald Eagle Protection Act
Speaker 2: was passed in nineteen forty. It really played into people's patriotism,
Speaker 2: making it a crime to kill or sell eagles. Then,
Speaker 2: when the pesticide DDT was used in the nineteen forties
Speaker 2: to the sixties, that also affected the eagles because it
Speaker 2: seeped into the water, it affected the fish, and when
Speaker 2: the eagles ate the fish, it created these thinner eggshells.
Speaker 2: So basically the one to three eaglets that a couple
Speaker 2: hatches every year. They were no longer getting born because
Speaker 2: the eggs would crack, and DDT gets banned, and the
Speaker 2: government both protected more of the eagle habitats and started
Speaker 2: breeding the birds in captivity. Then they would release them
Speaker 2: into the wild, and this really changed things for eagles,
Speaker 2: and it's it's actually pretty amazing the recovery there. Today
Speaker 2: there are about three hundred thousand bald eagles in the
Speaker 2: US and about seventy thousand nesting pairs, so well on
Speaker 2: their way to a great return.
Speaker 1: That's pretty remarkable, both like the what they were at
Speaker 1: to dip to like what like four hundred and fifteen
Speaker 1: or something you said, and then like coming all the
Speaker 1: way back up to three hundred thousand.
Speaker 2: That's nuts. Yeah, it's definitely impressive. And in fact, even
Speaker 2: though there hadn't been bald eagles in New York City
Speaker 2: for almost a century, there are actually four bald eagles
Speaker 2: now in the city and they've hatched nearly a dozen eaglets.
Speaker 1: Oh, that's incredible. I hadn't even heard about that.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Apparently the first pair, who were named Veto and Linda,
Speaker 2: built a nest in Staten Island in twenty fifteen. Veto
Speaker 2: and Linda love the names, and since then they have
Speaker 2: grown their family.
Speaker 1: That is so fun, but you know, it just causes
Speaker 1: one problem. What do you want to do about today's trophy?
Speaker 1: Because I had some great facts, you had some great facts.
Speaker 1: Veto and Linda were in the mix. What do you think?
Speaker 2: You know? I kind of want to throw a curveball here.
Speaker 2: It's our July fourth episode, and I feel like we
Speaker 2: should award the trophy to a true American, you know,
Speaker 2: an entrepreneur who single handedly is trying to make bald
Speaker 2: eagles feel better by putting them in two pays. So
Speaker 2: I'm going to vote to give this week's award to Dylan.
Speaker 2: What do you think?
Speaker 1: I am for it, but only this once.
Speaker 2: That's right, That's right. Well, congratulations Dylan. That's it for
Speaker 2: this week's episode. Thanks so much for listening. If you
Speaker 2: like Part Time Genius, don't forget to rate the show,
Speaker 2: write his review, tell a friend, or if you really
Speaker 2: want to get to us, write our mom's a note
Speaker 2: at Ptgenius Moms at gmail dot com.
Speaker 1: Oh, and we actually have a giveaway. We're gonna pick
Speaker 1: ten random fans from everyone who writes in this week
Speaker 1: and next, and I'm gonna send you a special gift
Speaker 1: to show our appreciation. So let us know what you
Speaker 1: think about the show, what topics want us to cover,
Speaker 1: and we'll put something in the mail for you From Will, Dylan,
Speaker 1: Mary and me. Thank you so much for listening. Part
Speaker 1: Time Genius is a production of Kaleidoscope and iHeartRadio. This
Speaker 1: show is hosted by Will Pearson and Me Mongas Chatikler
Speaker 1: and researched by our good pal Mary Philip Sandy. Today's
Speaker 1: episode was engineered and produced by the wonderful Dylan Fagan
Speaker 1: with support from Tyler Klang. The show is executive produced
Speaker 1: for iHeart by Katrina Norvell and Ali Perry, with social
Speaker 1: media support from Sasha Gay, trustee Dara Potts and Viney Shorey.
Speaker 1: For more podcasts from Kaleidoscope and iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app,
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Speaker 3: The