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Speaker 1: Hey, everybody, we recorded this before the news that the

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Speaker 1: Dune sequel had been greenlit came out, So any references

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Speaker 1: that you hear in this too, Oh I wonder if

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Speaker 1: we got a Doune sequel.

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Speaker 2: Just ignore that we're getting a Doune sequel.

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Speaker 3: Thanks bye, Do Do Do Do Do Do Do Do

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Speaker 3: Do Do do dopp up?

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Speaker 1: Well, I must not fear spoilers, spoilers of the mind Killer,

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Speaker 1: spoilers of the Little Death that bring total libiliation. I

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Speaker 1: will face my fear. Hey, here's a warning. There's gonna

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Speaker 1: be spoilers in this for Dune. There's gonna be spoilers

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Speaker 1: in this for the Dune movie, for the Dune books.

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Speaker 1: There's gonna be spoilers from the Dune books that can

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Speaker 1: potentially spoil sequels to the Dune movie.

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Speaker 2: So you know what it is.

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Speaker 1: If you don't want to get spoiled, please check out

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Speaker 1: now Baby Baba. Hello, my name is Jason Concepcio. Sorry,

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Speaker 1: gool voice. Welcome to episode died of X Ravenge and

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Speaker 1: the Growl Good Podcast, where we dive deep into your

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Speaker 1: favorite shows, movies, comics, and pop culture today on Previously

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Speaker 1: on We're just gonna be going straight into Dune, I'll

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Speaker 1: be recapping it and talking about some of the box

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Speaker 1: office numbers. Then in a very special airlock, I'll be

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Speaker 1: joined by the wonderful hosts of the Dune Podcast, Jason

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Speaker 1: Goldman and Hu. And then in the omnibus we'll be

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Speaker 1: talking about the origins of Space Empires and the relationship

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Speaker 1: between Dune and the iconic sci fi series that started

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Speaker 1: the whole Space Empire thing, Isaac Asimov's Foundation. And then

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Speaker 1: in the Endgame, we will be joined by the wonderful

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Speaker 1: Chase Rona to talk about his new book, Hip Hop

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Speaker 1: and other things, and to resuscitate our classic cafeteria table

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Speaker 1: segment from the Connect podcast.

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Speaker 2: Can't Wait. First, let's recap done. My planet Orakis is

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Speaker 2: so beautiful and the sun is.

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Speaker 1: Low rolling over the sands.

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Speaker 2: You can see spice in the air.

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Speaker 4: What's to become of our world?

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Speaker 1: Uh? This is the one we've I've been waiting for.

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Speaker 1: I've been waiting for this since I read Dune for

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Speaker 1: the first time in high school. At the time, I

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Speaker 1: was reading mostly comic books and Stephen King, and then

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Speaker 1: I read Enders Game and I was like, oh my god,

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Speaker 1: I love sci fi. I want more sci fi what's

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Speaker 1: up sci fi? And the very first thing someone recommended

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Speaker 1: to me was Dune. And I read Dune and I

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Speaker 1: absolutely loved it, loved it, loved it, loved it. I've

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Speaker 1: read it so many times since and super super excited

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Speaker 1: for the release of Denny Villeneuve's adaptation of Doune.

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Speaker 2: This coming on the heels.

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Speaker 1: Of, you know, the rather notable David Lynch version, which

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Speaker 1: is super weird, has its charms. I like it, but

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Speaker 1: it also kind of doesn't super work as a movie,

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Speaker 1: and they made a lot of like really really big

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Speaker 1: changes to the story that I didn't love. So let's

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Speaker 1: talk about Danny Villaneuve's very loyal adaptation of Doune. We

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Speaker 1: open on a dream Paul's visions from deep space. We

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Speaker 1: hear the voice of Cheney, who will be Paul's love interest,

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Speaker 1: and we hear her describing her love of her planet Aracus.

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Speaker 2: My planet Oracus is so beautiful and the sun is low.

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Speaker 1: Aracus is the loane source of the spice milange the galaxy,

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Speaker 1: and that is the most valuable, most important substance in

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Speaker 1: the galaxy. We see a harkenin spice harvester bringing in

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Speaker 1: spice guarded by Harkenin troops. We see a raiding party

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Speaker 1: of Fremen, the indigenous people of Aracus, led by Cheney.

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Speaker 1: We see them strike and the Harkonen counter attack sends

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Speaker 1: them fleeing back into the desert rocks. At Arakin, the

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Speaker 1: colonial capital, we see Glassu, the beast Rabon played by

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Speaker 1: David Bautista, the pscion of House harkenin at least at

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Speaker 1: this point as he oversees the Herkanen occupation forces. And

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Speaker 1: then later we see the Hearkeanins leaving Aracus on the

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Speaker 1: order of the Padisha, emperor of the galaxy shut. On

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Speaker 1: the fourth we go to Caladan, home of House of Tradees.

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Speaker 1: The year is a ten to one ninety one age

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Speaker 1: after the Spacing Guild, so that means after the formation

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Speaker 1: of the Spacing Guild, the group that is solely responsible

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Speaker 1: for ferrying human beings, other great Houses, other traders, and

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Speaker 1: such back and forth across the galaxy, they alone are

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Speaker 1: capable of folding space and so the foundation of the

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Speaker 1: Space and Gil is like ten thousand years into our future,

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Speaker 1: so this story is taking place roughly twenty thousand years

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Speaker 1: in the future. We meet young Paula Trades He is

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Speaker 1: the son of Duke Ledo, a Treads and his consort

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Speaker 1: Benny Jeserit's sister, Lady Jessica, who is Paul's mother. We

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Speaker 1: meet them at breakfast. Lady Jessica is testing Paul's ability

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Speaker 1: to wield the voice, which is one of the powers

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Speaker 1: of Benny Jesuit can command.

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Speaker 2: He's just okay at it. He's pretty good at it.

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Speaker 1: He's give me the water, and she just kind of

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Speaker 1: thinks about giving him the water. I will say, really

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Speaker 1: cool effect here in which you can hear multiple voices

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Speaker 1: mixed in with Paul's voice. Paul, of course played by

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Speaker 1: a very engaging, very charming, very talented Timothy Shallome. And

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Speaker 1: this is a this is a cool reference point for

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Speaker 1: some of the powers that the Benny Jesuit can command. Later,

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Speaker 1: the Emperor's representatives, in a super cool, very epic scene,

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Speaker 1: flanked by members of the Imperial Court who look like

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Speaker 1: space DJs and members of the Spacing Guild with their

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Speaker 1: helmets spice filled helmets, and a representative of the Benny

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Speaker 1: Jesuit arrive on world on Caladan to officially present House

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Speaker 1: of Treads in Duke Ledo with the governorship of Iracus.

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Speaker 1: It's a big deal, of course, Duke Leto accepts Duncan

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Speaker 1: Idaho Jason Momoa.

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Speaker 5: Amen.

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Speaker 2: First of all, Duncan Idaho.

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Speaker 1: Any Jason Momoa character is like just a cool rad dude,

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Speaker 1: you know what I mean? And that's his range is

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Speaker 1: like I'm a cool rad dude. I ride a motorcycle,

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Speaker 1: I'm awesome. And nobody plays that character better than Jays MoMA.

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Speaker 1: Duncan Idaho returns from a test flight. He will be

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Speaker 1: heading to arakas soon on a secret cool dude diplomatic mission.

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Speaker 2: Paul is like, I want to go. Can I go?

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Speaker 1: Uh listen, here's my pitch. I want to go with

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Speaker 1: you on a very dangerous mission to Aracus. And he

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Speaker 1: tells Duncan of his dream that he has seen Duncan

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Speaker 1: dead after a violent fight, and Duncan is like, whatever, dude,

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Speaker 1: don't worry, I'm fine and also know you can't go. Later,

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Speaker 1: Paul makes his pitch to Dad that he should go

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Speaker 1: to Oracus. I'd be an asset. I speak the fremin

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Speaker 1: language they need be over there, do. Glatto's like hard, No, No,

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Speaker 1: you fucking crazy. The Duke then tells his son, listen,

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Speaker 1: we're in a dangerous spot here. House to tradees our

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Speaker 1: influence amongst the lands Rad, which is the galaxy's great houses.

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Speaker 1: How they are collectively known as the lands Rad, is

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Speaker 1: very threatening to the Emperor. We're on the rise right now.

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Speaker 1: The Emperor hates it.

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Speaker 2: Sidebar.

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Speaker 1: Here's why the Emperor is so threatened by House of Trades.

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Speaker 1: In case that wasn't clear, I had some friends asking me, like,

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Speaker 1: what what is the Emperor's game here? So House to

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Speaker 1: Trades employs Thuffer Howatt, who is a mentet, the Duke's mentet.

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Speaker 1: He is famed across the galaxy for his brilliance as

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Speaker 1: a strategist. He's super, super, super capable, very dangerous. War

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Speaker 1: Master Gurney Halleck, who the Duke saved from Hearken and slavery,

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Speaker 1: along with Weapon Master Dunk and Idaho, have built the

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Speaker 1: Trades Military into a force that is just a hair's breath,

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Speaker 1: as good as the Emperor's shock troops, the feared Sarducar.

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Speaker 2: Now, the Emperor hopes that by placing.

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Speaker 1: House to Trades and House Hearkening on a path to war,

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Speaker 1: he can weaken both houses and keep his hands clean in.

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Speaker 2: The process of doing such.

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Speaker 1: Because he doesn't want to alarm the lands rad that

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Speaker 1: it's possible that the Emperor could like go out and

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Speaker 1: target the great houses one by one. He doesn't want

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Speaker 1: that to be known. But if he can start a

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Speaker 1: war amongst the great houses, that benefits him. The Duke

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Speaker 1: wants Paul at his side as he starts planning, you know,

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Speaker 1: his strategy for Racus, his strategy for building desert power,

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Speaker 1: learning what it means to lead. He doesn't want Paul

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Speaker 1: going off on his own. We go to Gidee Prime,

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Speaker 1: which is the homeworld of the brutal, ruthless, dangerous house

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Speaker 1: harconin Beast, Raban arrives before his uncle, the Baron, Vladimir

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Speaker 1: Harkonin and Rabon is pretty pissed about having to leave Racus.

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Speaker 1: He's mad about it.

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Speaker 2: How could he have bro take.

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Speaker 6: Duke.

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Speaker 2: He's very very angry.

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Speaker 1: And from this scene, which I think is also really

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Speaker 1: well done, this is like some of the best exposition

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Speaker 1: that you will see in a movie or television, because

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Speaker 1: every thing is telling us about who these characters are

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Speaker 1: and what's going on. We understand from this that Rabon

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Speaker 1: is a vicious autocrat, but probably not the smartest guy.

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Speaker 1: More of a sledgehammer than a scalpel, because the Baron

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Speaker 1: Vladimir Harkonen, who is sitting there like Colonel Kurtz getting

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Speaker 1: steamed like a dumpling, then has to tell beast Rabond, Okay,

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Speaker 1: here's what's going on, you fucking idiot.

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Speaker 2: When is a gift not a gift? We go to Caladan.

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Speaker 1: Reverend Mother Gaias Helen Moheim, the Imperial truth Sayer arrives.

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Speaker 1: She is Lady Jessica's former teacher. She arrives in the

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Speaker 1: dead of night, so clearly this is not an official trip.

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Speaker 1: She wants to examine Paul and learn more about these

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Speaker 1: dreams that he's been having. Clearly Lady Jessica has been

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Speaker 1: informing her former teacher about Paul. Doctor Yue, the house physician,

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Speaker 1: tells Paul, hey, here's what's going on.

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Speaker 2: Man.

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Speaker 1: The Benny Jeserit have their own agenda, and so they

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Speaker 1: want to see if you mean anything to that agenda.

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Speaker 1: What that agenda is is this, For centuries, for thousands

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Speaker 1: of years generations, the Benny Jeserit have been running a

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Speaker 1: project of selective breeding amongst the great houses, through which

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Speaker 1: they hope to bring about the birth of the Quizats

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Speaker 1: Hoderak more about who that person is later, and they think.

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Speaker 2: That might be Paul.

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Speaker 1: This is sort of a mild disaster for the Benny

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Speaker 1: Jesit because it really shouldn't be Paul. Jessica was supposed

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Speaker 1: to give Duke Lito a daughter who would then go

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Speaker 1: on to become the mother of the Quizats Hoderac.

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Speaker 2: But Jessica fell whole ass.

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Speaker 1: In love with that little cutie Duke Liito played by

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Speaker 1: Oscar Isaacs and you get it right, And so she

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Speaker 1: wanted to make her man happy. And the one thing

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Speaker 1: he really wanted and in fact needed, was a son,

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Speaker 1: and shows she gave that to him. The Beny Jesits

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Speaker 1: have complete command of their physiology. They are able to

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Speaker 1: do things such as that which like decide the sex

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Speaker 1: of the child that they're gonna bear. Revoheim tests Paul,

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Speaker 1: and thanks to Jessica's training and the fact that he

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Speaker 1: is spoiler is the kh he passes. He then tells

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Speaker 1: Revmo about his dreams and later that's the Reverend Mother.

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Speaker 1: The Reverend Mother, I'm calling Revmo. Later, Jessica tells Paul

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Speaker 1: about the Quizat's Hotarak. So the Quizat's Hedarak is a

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Speaker 1: little complicated because of the way that entity interacts with

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Speaker 1: the X chromosome and the Y chromosome.

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Speaker 2: But let's just say this.

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Speaker 1: While the Benny Jesuit have some ability to predict the

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Speaker 1: future and an ability to understand everything that has happened

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Speaker 1: before because they can access the genetic memories of sisters

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Speaker 1: that came before them, the quiz AT's Hotarak can access

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Speaker 1: highly accurate long range press in a way that the

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Speaker 1: benajezer It can. And this figure was supposed to be

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Speaker 1: a child of a Treade's and a hearken In, which

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Speaker 1: would unify those two great houses who were, as we

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Speaker 1: have learned, rivals, and that would bring about a period

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Speaker 1: of peace and stability, which is what the benajezer It want.

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Speaker 1: They're out here shaping history. We go to Aracus House,

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Speaker 1: the treads makes landfall to a really awesome and epic

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Speaker 1: bagpipe theme. We learned that the Hearkenans have left spies,

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Speaker 1: They have left death traps behind them, but through for

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Speaker 1: Hawat reports. Listen, we're mopping up right now. But basically

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Speaker 1: it's secure fremen onlookers who are watching in the distance.

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Speaker 1: Chant Lisa al Gaib Lisa al Gaib, who is basically

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Speaker 1: their legend of a messiah, the speaker of truth. At

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Speaker 1: Paul they feel that he fits a lot of the

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Speaker 1: details of this legendary Lisa al Gabe. This is the

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Speaker 1: result of another of the Betty jeser It's long running projects,

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Speaker 1: the Mission Proctiva, which is the planting of religious legends

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Speaker 1: amongst native populations across the galaxy. This is part of

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Speaker 1: the way that they shape history and steer history towards

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Speaker 1: the ends that they desire. Again, Paula Trady seems to

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Speaker 1: fit those signs of a messiah in the eyes of

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Speaker 1: the Fremen. Later, Duke Leto and Gurney survey their New Fife.

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Speaker 1: Bottom line, they're pretty vulnerable out here. And the spice

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Speaker 1: got a flow. That's the thing. It's so valuable. You

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Speaker 1: need the spice. Everybody needs the spice. The Betty jeser

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Speaker 1: It needs the spice. The Space and Guild needs the spice.

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Speaker 1: We need lots of spice. It only comes to Oracus

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Speaker 1: and it can't stop no matter what. Or House of

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Speaker 1: Treads is in deep shit. Lady Jessica is interviewing prospective

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Speaker 1: domestics she receives a Chris knife from one one of

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Speaker 1: these prospective domestics named should Out Mapes, who is a Fremen.

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Speaker 1: She gets herself hired, and it's clear that should Out

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Speaker 1: really believes, Oh my god, these are the signs the

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Speaker 1: time is coming that Lisa al Gaib is here. This

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Speaker 1: is the mother of the Lisa al Gaib who I

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Speaker 1: am talking to. I'm very emotional. Mapes clearly believes Paul

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Speaker 1: is the one. Later, Paul saves Mapes from getting stuck

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Speaker 1: by a Hearken and hunter seeker that was clearly meant

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Speaker 1: for him. Hufer Hawat is like, oh my god, Duke,

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Speaker 1: I am so sorry I missed that Underseeker.

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Speaker 2: I quit. I resign.

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Speaker 1: My honor demands that I must resign, and then Duke

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Speaker 1: is like, are you fucking kidding? You're a Mentat. We

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Speaker 1: need you right now. No, go find spies. We go

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Speaker 1: back to Guide Prime. The Revmo brings a message from

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Speaker 1: the Emperor. The Emperor will send his Sardo car shock troops,

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Speaker 1: the most feared, best fighting troops in the entire galaxy,

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Speaker 1: to augment the Hearkenings when they munch their sneak attack

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Speaker 1: on Aracus. Here's what the Emperor needs. Basically, anything goes,

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Speaker 1: kill anybody you want, but the attack must remain top secret.

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Speaker 1: The Emperor's hands must never appear dirty in this and

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Speaker 1: Lady Jessica and Paul must live. And because this message

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Speaker 1: is being carried by the Reverend Mother Benny Jesuit Truthsayer

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Speaker 1: to the Emperor, she will know if they are lying,

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Speaker 1: and the Baron pledges his word that no harm will

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Speaker 1: come to them. This is a dangerous tactic by the Baron,

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Speaker 1: which his twisted mentat Peter DeVries tells him, Hey, listen,

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Speaker 1: they'll know if you're lying. More on this later with

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Speaker 1: the Dune Pod boys. We go back to Aracus. Now listen,

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Speaker 1: the Hearken has got super rich on Oracus, but they

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Speaker 1: have left house to tradease some really tough infrastructure. Like

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Speaker 1: everything is broken down and fucked up. The Duke is like,

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Speaker 1: let me go see this mining operation on which my

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Speaker 1: entire fate and the fate of my house. He also

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Speaker 1: wants to bring lee at Kines. The emperors judge of

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Speaker 1: the change along. This is the person who is observing

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Speaker 1: the change over for the Emperor to make sure everything

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Speaker 1: is above board, although clearly she has certain orders from

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Speaker 1: the Emperor, and the Emperor is a biased observer who

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Speaker 1: is actively trying to bring along the downfall of House

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Speaker 1: of Trades. So clearly Lee at Kines is struggling with this,

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Speaker 1: although she very clearly feels an affinity for House of

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Speaker 1: Trades because one they're honorable and two maybe Paul's Lisa Helgabe. Anyway,

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Speaker 1: Duncan comes home from mission. He has brought Stilgar Fremen

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Speaker 1: leader with him and he brings good news that hey, listen,

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Speaker 1: there's a lot of Fremin out here.

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Speaker 2: There are a.

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Speaker 1: Lot of them, more than previously understood. And listen, they

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Speaker 1: are stealthy, they are secretive, and the Fremen are very

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Speaker 1: very skilled at war, which plays into Duke Leto's plans

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Speaker 1: because he wants to ally with the Fremen. After the

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00:18:00,119 --> 00:18:05,520
Speaker 1: ritual spit handshake, the meeting goes pretty good, still catches

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Speaker 1: some Lisa and algayib vibes from Paul and he leaves. Later,

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Speaker 1: doctor Kenes arrives and she's like, holy shit, Paul, have

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Speaker 1: you warn a still suit before the boots, the boots

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00:18:17,240 --> 00:18:19,919
Speaker 1: with the fur, you're wearing it all correctly? Are you

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00:18:20,080 --> 00:18:24,040
Speaker 1: kidding me? Aside here using whatever space Google they have,

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00:18:24,320 --> 00:18:26,360
Speaker 1: you could argue that House of Trades and Paul could

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Speaker 1: have just googled how do I wear a still suit?

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Speaker 2: But of course that's not what they did.

300
00:18:30,280 --> 00:18:32,960
Speaker 1: Paul just understood how to do it, and doctor Keene's

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00:18:33,000 --> 00:18:36,119
Speaker 1: getting those lisa al gayibe vibes. They go off to

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00:18:36,200 --> 00:18:39,480
Speaker 1: watch the spice mining operation. It goes very badly because

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00:18:39,480 --> 00:18:42,359
Speaker 1: of the poor state of the equipment. The Hearkenan's left

304
00:18:42,600 --> 00:18:47,080
Speaker 1: and the Duke has to then rescue these miners from

305
00:18:47,200 --> 00:18:52,600
Speaker 1: and attacking rampaging sandworm. What about the spice, The Duke

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00:18:52,680 --> 00:18:56,080
Speaker 1: is asked, damn the spice. He cares about the people,

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Speaker 1: the personnel, And from this we understand that Duke Lido

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00:18:58,960 --> 00:19:03,040
Speaker 1: is just a good dude. Right, Yes, the spice is important.

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00:19:03,160 --> 00:19:06,200
Speaker 1: The destiny of his house, you know, rests on the spice.

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Speaker 1: But he cares about human life. He cares about people.

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Speaker 1: Paul out on the sands of Iracus, has a strong

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00:19:13,720 --> 00:19:17,479
Speaker 1: reaction to the airborne spice and he nearly buys it

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Speaker 1: by the worm. Later full on tripping fucking balls because

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Speaker 1: of the spice. Paul talking to his mother, Lady Jessica,

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00:19:28,480 --> 00:19:31,760
Speaker 1: is like, man, I am losing it. Because of this spice,

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Speaker 1: I put on some music, put on the black light.

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Speaker 1: By the way, Mom, I know you're pregnant, and Lady

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Speaker 1: Jessica is like, oh shit. We go to Solucis Secondus.

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Speaker 1: Side note here and some information about Slucis Secindus, So

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Speaker 1: to the galaxy. As far as the galaxy is concerned,

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Speaker 1: Solucid Secindus is where the Emperor sends prisoners. That's the

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Speaker 1: Emperor's prison planet. It has like very very strong gravity

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Speaker 1: and a very very brutal and vivironment, and prisoners who

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Speaker 1: go there mostly die, but they the ones who survive,

325
00:20:04,600 --> 00:20:09,359
Speaker 1: getting very strong. That's the official story. The unofficial story.

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Speaker 1: The real story is that this is where the Emperor

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00:20:12,600 --> 00:20:16,280
Speaker 1: trains his Stardo car. Because of that harsh environment and

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00:20:16,320 --> 00:20:21,480
Speaker 1: that stronger gravity, the troops that are trained there one

329
00:20:21,640 --> 00:20:25,359
Speaker 1: suffer immense casualties. Like I think it's around fifty percent

330
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Speaker 1: of the troops that are trained there don't make it.

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Speaker 2: They die.

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Speaker 1: The ones that live become super super capable, super strong

333
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Speaker 1: because of that higher gravity, because of that ruthless training,

334
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Speaker 1: they are just incredibly, incredibly brutal, the best military troops

335
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Speaker 1: in the galaxy, and they are absolutely maniacally fanatically loyal

336
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Speaker 1: to the emperor, almost on a religious level.

337
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Speaker 2: They'll do whatever the Emperor says.

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00:20:57,359 --> 00:21:01,040
Speaker 1: And they are not just military shock true, but they

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00:21:01,080 --> 00:21:08,520
Speaker 1: are very very skilled at counterintelligence, insurgency. They are very

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00:21:08,560 --> 00:21:12,120
Speaker 1: competent and feared spies. If the Emperor wants to send

341
00:21:12,119 --> 00:21:16,160
Speaker 1: someone undercover right with smugglers, say he will send his

342
00:21:16,440 --> 00:21:21,240
Speaker 1: Sardu Car to go undercover and to infiltrate different groups

343
00:21:21,280 --> 00:21:24,760
Speaker 1: just to find out what's going on. So on Soluciscindus,

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00:21:25,040 --> 00:21:28,600
Speaker 1: we see Peter Derez baron harconins twisted mentat making the

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00:21:28,680 --> 00:21:32,600
Speaker 1: deal with the Sardu Car that the Sardocar will send

346
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Speaker 1: and you know, battalions of troops to support the Harconans,

347
00:21:36,440 --> 00:21:39,200
Speaker 1: and the leader of the Sardacar says, if the Emperor

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Speaker 1: commands it, we will do it.

349
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Speaker 2: We go back to Aracus.

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Speaker 1: Jessica is like my husband, Duke Glito, I have to

351
00:21:46,560 --> 00:21:51,240
Speaker 1: tell you about our son who is tripping absolute nuts

352
00:21:51,280 --> 00:21:53,640
Speaker 1: on spice, and I got to tell you what's going

353
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Speaker 1: on with him because it's a long story and it's

354
00:21:56,960 --> 00:21:59,520
Speaker 1: involves the Betty Jesuit. And Degleado is like, I don't

355
00:21:59,520 --> 00:22:02,159
Speaker 1: want to fuck and hear it, Okay, I want to

356
00:22:02,200 --> 00:22:06,040
Speaker 1: know one thing. Will the Betty Jesuit protect Paul. Lady

357
00:22:06,119 --> 00:22:10,000
Speaker 1: Jessica's like, what, why are you acting so crazy? Red

358
00:22:10,040 --> 00:22:13,800
Speaker 1: Flag Lady Jessica doesn't answer, She's just like, why are

359
00:22:13,800 --> 00:22:17,840
Speaker 1: you being so weird? Later that night, the Hearkens attack.

360
00:22:18,119 --> 00:22:21,240
Speaker 1: Uh oh, doctor yuey. And here is where I will

361
00:22:21,280 --> 00:22:26,000
Speaker 1: say that I'm not super thrilled that the only main

362
00:22:26,160 --> 00:22:29,639
Speaker 1: Asian in the cast is the betrayer. But that's fine

363
00:22:30,240 --> 00:22:35,639
Speaker 1: doctor yue acting against his supposedly unbreakable conditioning, which they

364
00:22:35,640 --> 00:22:38,200
Speaker 1: don't really explain in the movie, but in the book

365
00:22:38,440 --> 00:22:41,000
Speaker 1: this is not supposed to be possible that a trained

366
00:22:41,040 --> 00:22:45,080
Speaker 1: physician of a great house would turn against his employers

367
00:22:46,040 --> 00:22:48,840
Speaker 1: Betray's House of Trades and lowers the defensive shields. The

368
00:22:48,880 --> 00:22:55,320
Speaker 1: Baron's victory is essentially total, a trade's military strength wiped

369
00:22:55,359 --> 00:22:58,000
Speaker 1: out every city on the face of the planet hit

370
00:22:58,080 --> 00:23:03,119
Speaker 1: at once. But Paul and Jessica have escaped separately. Duncan, Idaho,

371
00:23:03,200 --> 00:23:08,120
Speaker 1: has also escaped, and others have also escaped, which will

372
00:23:08,160 --> 00:23:10,840
Speaker 1: be revealed later, but other very important people.

373
00:23:10,640 --> 00:23:11,439
Speaker 2: Have also escaped.

374
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Speaker 1: The Duke, with his last breath nearly takes out the

375
00:23:17,320 --> 00:23:23,080
Speaker 1: leering victorious Baron Harkonen. Using doctor U as poisoned tooth,

376
00:23:23,600 --> 00:23:26,880
Speaker 1: Paul has a spice vision of himself at the head

377
00:23:26,880 --> 00:23:30,439
Speaker 1: of a frem And army, continuing to trip balls. He

378
00:23:30,520 --> 00:23:34,480
Speaker 1: sees the galaxy of flame, he sees war. Later, doctor

379
00:23:34,560 --> 00:23:38,920
Speaker 1: Kines and duncan find them, but before the group can

380
00:23:39,400 --> 00:23:42,480
Speaker 1: escape to a frem And seech the Sardik who are

381
00:23:42,640 --> 00:23:46,200
Speaker 1: fall upon them, Duncan Idaho sacrifices himself so Jessica and

382
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Speaker 1: Paul can escape and lee at Kines falls as well.

383
00:23:51,240 --> 00:23:51,800
Speaker 2: Elsewhere.

384
00:23:52,400 --> 00:23:55,639
Speaker 1: Rabon reports to the Baron that Paul and Jessica are

385
00:23:55,640 --> 00:23:56,680
Speaker 1: one hundred percent dead.

386
00:23:56,920 --> 00:23:59,720
Speaker 2: Definitely, they're gone. They are.

387
00:24:00,280 --> 00:24:03,080
Speaker 1: They flew into a sandstorm and you know what happens

388
00:24:03,080 --> 00:24:05,480
Speaker 1: then people get killed to do that.

389
00:24:05,480 --> 00:24:06,760
Speaker 2: That's it. Don't worry about it.

390
00:24:07,480 --> 00:24:11,359
Speaker 1: Baron Harconin, who is recovering from the poison tooth attack

391
00:24:11,640 --> 00:24:15,720
Speaker 1: in a bath of balsamic and olive oil, is like, great,

392
00:24:15,840 --> 00:24:20,440
Speaker 1: that's great news, my nephew. Now let's take as much

393
00:24:20,480 --> 00:24:24,120
Speaker 1: spice out of the planet as we can while wiping

394
00:24:24,160 --> 00:24:27,320
Speaker 1: out the Fremen. Complete frem And genocide. Go do it,

395
00:24:27,480 --> 00:24:30,320
Speaker 1: the beast, Rabond and you know because his nickname is

396
00:24:30,359 --> 00:24:33,040
Speaker 1: the Beast, that that's the right guy to do a

397
00:24:33,119 --> 00:24:37,919
Speaker 1: job like that. Now aside, this is part of the

398
00:24:37,960 --> 00:24:43,640
Speaker 1: Baron's plan. The Baron doesn't really want Rebond to inherit

399
00:24:43,920 --> 00:24:48,320
Speaker 1: house Harconin. He would prefer his favorite nephew, fade Ratha,

400
00:24:48,400 --> 00:24:50,679
Speaker 1: who is not in this movie but will surely appear

401
00:24:50,680 --> 00:24:52,840
Speaker 1: in a sequel should a sequel be made. More on

402
00:24:52,880 --> 00:24:56,719
Speaker 1: that later, The smarter fade Rautha, he would prefer to

403
00:24:56,920 --> 00:25:00,359
Speaker 1: come to power. So the Baron's plan is set. The

404
00:25:00,359 --> 00:25:06,360
Speaker 1: Beast Rebond loose on Aracus, have him basically be absolutely

405
00:25:06,400 --> 00:25:10,920
Speaker 1: hated by everyone, brutal and hated and feared. And then

406
00:25:11,000 --> 00:25:14,639
Speaker 1: I bring in the pinchator fade Raltha, who is smarter

407
00:25:14,920 --> 00:25:18,000
Speaker 1: and more competent, and everybody's like, wow, this guy's great.

408
00:25:18,440 --> 00:25:21,160
Speaker 1: What a savior fade Ratha is. And that's the Baron's plan.

409
00:25:21,640 --> 00:25:24,639
Speaker 1: We go to the deep desert. Paul and Jessica after

410
00:25:24,760 --> 00:25:27,760
Speaker 1: the sandstorm, are walking across the desert. They come to

411
00:25:27,840 --> 00:25:31,160
Speaker 1: a large outcrop fleeing a worm. There they are met

412
00:25:31,200 --> 00:25:33,960
Speaker 1: by a band of Fremen led by Stilgar, and after

413
00:25:34,000 --> 00:25:36,560
Speaker 1: a brief fight in which Lady Jessica shows that she

414
00:25:36,680 --> 00:25:38,159
Speaker 1: is not to be fucked with at all. She is

415
00:25:38,200 --> 00:25:40,359
Speaker 1: a sister of the Many Desert and she's trained in

416
00:25:40,400 --> 00:25:42,520
Speaker 1: combat and she can use the voice and all this shit.

417
00:25:43,040 --> 00:25:47,600
Speaker 1: Stilgar accepts them into his seat. He puts his name

418
00:25:47,720 --> 00:25:51,679
Speaker 1: upon them. Unfortunately, Jamis, who Paul has had visions of,

419
00:25:52,200 --> 00:25:56,439
Speaker 1: challenges Jessica to a ritual duel for leadership, and he says,

420
00:25:56,520 --> 00:25:59,880
Speaker 1: who's going to be this woman's champion?

421
00:26:00,040 --> 00:26:02,720
Speaker 2: Still cars like, don't do this, Jammus, what the fuck? Man?

422
00:26:03,359 --> 00:26:05,720
Speaker 1: But Jamis is like, now I'm doing it. Who is

423
00:26:05,800 --> 00:26:08,439
Speaker 1: it going to be this person's champion? And Paul's like, well,

424
00:26:08,480 --> 00:26:11,679
Speaker 1: I guess it's me guess what. Paul is good at fighting,

425
00:26:11,760 --> 00:26:14,760
Speaker 1: even though he doesn't really want to kill because he's

426
00:26:14,800 --> 00:26:16,840
Speaker 1: never killed a man, he's good at it. He's been

427
00:26:16,840 --> 00:26:20,080
Speaker 1: trained by some of the best uh and he slays

428
00:26:20,160 --> 00:26:24,359
Speaker 1: Jammas and he prevails. Also, he meets Cheney, who he

429
00:26:24,400 --> 00:26:27,680
Speaker 1: has been dreaming about, and the movie ends on.

430
00:26:27,920 --> 00:26:29,480
Speaker 2: To Dune Part two.

431
00:26:29,800 --> 00:26:33,680
Speaker 1: Should say I loved the little move that Paul uses

432
00:26:33,720 --> 00:26:35,960
Speaker 1: to slay Jammas is like this little bullfighter move, and

433
00:26:36,000 --> 00:26:38,800
Speaker 1: we understand that bullfighting is an important part of a

434
00:26:38,880 --> 00:26:43,720
Speaker 1: trade's culture moving on this movie. Rotten Tomatoes eighty four

435
00:26:43,760 --> 00:26:48,960
Speaker 1: percent critics, ninety one percent fresh by audience. So that's

436
00:26:49,119 --> 00:26:52,600
Speaker 1: the good reviews. That's great. Domestic box office so far

437
00:26:53,160 --> 00:26:58,120
Speaker 1: forty million dollars international one hundred and eighty million, worldwide

438
00:26:58,119 --> 00:27:02,240
Speaker 1: two hundred and twenty million. So looking good, looking good

439
00:27:02,280 --> 00:27:06,560
Speaker 1: as we go for a sequel. Some notable reviews Richard

440
00:27:06,600 --> 00:27:09,760
Speaker 1: Brody in The New Yorker or The Pan It's surprising

441
00:27:09,800 --> 00:27:13,800
Speaker 1: how cheesy the New Dune looks. Richard Brody opens his

442
00:27:14,640 --> 00:27:17,679
Speaker 1: opens his review with I gotta tell you, I fucking disagree.

443
00:27:17,800 --> 00:27:19,199
Speaker 2: I love the epic scope of this.

444
00:27:19,800 --> 00:27:22,960
Speaker 1: Bob Mondelo in the NPR Cinematic San Cassa is as

445
00:27:23,000 --> 00:27:24,720
Speaker 1: impressive as Villaneuve's doing.

446
00:27:24,840 --> 00:27:27,600
Speaker 2: Don't come often but all the darkest New York Times.

447
00:27:28,000 --> 00:27:30,359
Speaker 1: Villaneuve has made a serious, stately opus, and while he

448
00:27:30,400 --> 00:27:32,320
Speaker 1: doesn't have a pop bone in his body, he knows

449
00:27:32,359 --> 00:27:34,399
Speaker 1: how to put on a show. As he fans a

450
00:27:34,400 --> 00:27:36,720
Speaker 1: timely argument about who gets to play the hero. Now,

451
00:27:37,200 --> 00:27:39,479
Speaker 1: I love the movie. I think it's super weird, and

452
00:27:39,520 --> 00:27:43,480
Speaker 1: I love that it maintains that super weird psychedelic teenager

453
00:27:43,600 --> 00:27:48,000
Speaker 1: tripping on hallucinogens in the desert vibe that is so

454
00:27:48,240 --> 00:27:50,719
Speaker 1: present in the books and is so important to the books.

455
00:27:51,240 --> 00:27:54,159
Speaker 1: That said, I am super fascinated to know what people

456
00:27:54,200 --> 00:27:56,399
Speaker 1: think of it, how it hits them, because it is

457
00:27:56,520 --> 00:28:00,919
Speaker 1: definitely weirder and more artistic than your standard sci fi

458
00:28:01,240 --> 00:28:04,800
Speaker 1: epic popcorn movie. When we come back, I'll be joined

459
00:28:04,800 --> 00:28:21,480
Speaker 1: by Dune Pod guys Jason n H.

460
00:28:21,520 --> 00:28:23,920
Speaker 2: Welcome to the airlock where today I'm thrilled to be

461
00:28:24,000 --> 00:28:28,320
Speaker 2: joined by Dune Pod dude pop.

462
00:28:32,840 --> 00:28:38,440
Speaker 1: Boys Jason Goldman and H. Fantastic to have you on

463
00:28:38,480 --> 00:28:40,080
Speaker 1: the podcast. Welcome, how are you?

464
00:28:40,560 --> 00:28:43,440
Speaker 4: Thanks for cutting a new intro for us there that's

465
00:28:43,480 --> 00:28:45,400
Speaker 4: just gonna be what we use from now on. So

466
00:28:47,520 --> 00:28:53,440
Speaker 4: oh bye, We're gonna do the whole interview in Start

467
00:28:53,480 --> 00:28:53,920
Speaker 4: a Car.

468
00:28:55,720 --> 00:28:58,800
Speaker 2: Oh man, So this is listen. We'll get into in

469
00:28:58,840 --> 00:28:59,200
Speaker 2: a second.

470
00:28:59,280 --> 00:29:02,600
Speaker 1: But I was just I rewound the Starter Car intro

471
00:29:02,840 --> 00:29:09,160
Speaker 1: scene like on on on scudoush a million times Soluci

472
00:29:09,760 --> 00:29:12,080
Speaker 1: because I just was like, Oh, it's cool that their

473
00:29:12,760 --> 00:29:16,920
Speaker 1: speech is like weird mutated English that is like, uh,

474
00:29:17,160 --> 00:29:19,440
Speaker 1: you know, because his last line is like if the

475
00:29:19,840 --> 00:29:23,320
Speaker 1: brook about the da da, this is like almost English

476
00:29:23,440 --> 00:29:24,959
Speaker 1: kind of Yeah.

477
00:29:25,000 --> 00:29:25,480
Speaker 2: I love that.

478
00:29:25,760 --> 00:29:27,800
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's like in the future, like twenty thousand years

479
00:29:27,840 --> 00:29:30,360
Speaker 4: from now, like there's like a Viking race that developed

480
00:29:30,360 --> 00:29:33,320
Speaker 4: an extra larynx to like be able to make those sounds,

481
00:29:33,360 --> 00:29:35,840
Speaker 4: like that was a key evolutionary advantage that people.

482
00:29:35,920 --> 00:29:38,560
Speaker 1: Well, it's that it's that heavy gravity on that planet.

483
00:29:38,920 --> 00:29:42,600
Speaker 1: It's like melting your It's just melting your throat, vocal.

484
00:29:42,360 --> 00:29:46,440
Speaker 7: Cords, everything down in a crucifixion field.

485
00:29:46,680 --> 00:29:47,720
Speaker 6: It's not great for that.

486
00:29:47,800 --> 00:29:50,760
Speaker 2: For a lot, I mean, for a long long time.

487
00:29:50,840 --> 00:29:53,320
Speaker 1: That's part of the trading folks, And I don't know

488
00:29:53,320 --> 00:29:55,880
Speaker 1: what that does, but it makes you really good at fighting.

489
00:29:56,760 --> 00:29:58,320
Speaker 2: You guys need a Dune pod? What'd you think of

490
00:29:58,760 --> 00:29:59,640
Speaker 2: the movie Dune?

491
00:30:00,000 --> 00:30:02,560
Speaker 6: All right, Jay, you start, We like this movie. It

492
00:30:02,600 --> 00:30:03,440
Speaker 6: turns out.

493
00:30:05,120 --> 00:30:07,800
Speaker 4: We started the podcast when we thought the movie was

494
00:30:07,840 --> 00:30:10,520
Speaker 4: coming out in twenty twenty, and then we've been vamping

495
00:30:10,600 --> 00:30:14,640
Speaker 4: for a year because it got pushed back to the pandemic.

496
00:30:14,840 --> 00:30:17,000
Speaker 4: So we had a lot writing on it being good

497
00:30:17,840 --> 00:30:19,560
Speaker 4: because the podcast would have been a bit of a

498
00:30:19,600 --> 00:30:21,680
Speaker 4: downer after eighteen months.

499
00:30:21,680 --> 00:30:22,720
Speaker 6: I'm just like it was.

500
00:30:22,800 --> 00:30:27,880
Speaker 2: I but it's great. It's pretty good, but it's great.

501
00:30:28,160 --> 00:30:29,880
Speaker 6: The movie's great. It's incredible.

502
00:30:30,160 --> 00:30:33,120
Speaker 7: You know, this exceeded expectations in just about every way,

503
00:30:33,280 --> 00:30:35,680
Speaker 7: and part of it From the very beginning. I got

504
00:30:35,720 --> 00:30:38,760
Speaker 7: excited about starting this podcast because Jason was freaking out

505
00:30:38,800 --> 00:30:42,360
Speaker 7: every time Denny and Dune was being mentioned, and we

506
00:30:42,480 --> 00:30:44,360
Speaker 7: knew that what he was going to bring to it

507
00:30:44,480 --> 00:30:49,640
Speaker 7: was this seriousness, this grounded filmmaking that was going to

508
00:30:49,720 --> 00:30:52,880
Speaker 7: work in this epic scale, and in that respect, it's

509
00:30:52,920 --> 00:30:53,520
Speaker 7: been perfect.

510
00:30:53,880 --> 00:30:58,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, the epicness of it is so important.

511
00:30:58,120 --> 00:30:58,400
Speaker 2: Listen.

512
00:30:58,400 --> 00:31:01,640
Speaker 1: The Lynch version was also epic in its way, obviously

513
00:31:01,720 --> 00:31:06,360
Speaker 1: with nineteen eighties special effects, so it looks super weird now,

514
00:31:06,400 --> 00:31:08,720
Speaker 1: but they definitely went for the epic scale. But this

515
00:31:09,240 --> 00:31:11,920
Speaker 1: really does it in a way that recalls to me,

516
00:31:12,480 --> 00:31:16,080
Speaker 1: you know, like Lawrence of Arabia or The Searchers, or

517
00:31:16,200 --> 00:31:20,960
Speaker 1: like a Great Western, where it's just characters dwarfed by

518
00:31:21,440 --> 00:31:24,480
Speaker 1: the landscape, by the immense machinery they're around.

519
00:31:24,680 --> 00:31:26,840
Speaker 2: The villain. Wuve does this really cool thing with like.

520
00:31:27,360 --> 00:31:31,400
Speaker 1: With focus where it's almost like he crops in and

521
00:31:31,520 --> 00:31:35,080
Speaker 1: zooms in, almost with characters falling out of frame because

522
00:31:35,360 --> 00:31:37,800
Speaker 1: it's almost like the screen can't take in all the

523
00:31:37,880 --> 00:31:39,520
Speaker 1: stuff that is happening there.

524
00:31:39,560 --> 00:31:42,200
Speaker 2: It's a really cool effect was. I was blown away

525
00:31:42,200 --> 00:31:42,479
Speaker 2: by it.

526
00:31:42,560 --> 00:31:45,600
Speaker 1: I think it's I love that it maintains the weirdness

527
00:31:45,640 --> 00:31:47,880
Speaker 1: of the book. How do you think people who aren't

528
00:31:48,040 --> 00:31:51,760
Speaker 1: dune heads will be hit by this movie?

529
00:31:51,960 --> 00:31:53,840
Speaker 4: I mean, that's been the coolest thing about the movie

530
00:31:53,840 --> 00:31:56,840
Speaker 4: finally coming out, is that it has created a cultural

531
00:31:56,920 --> 00:32:00,360
Speaker 4: moment of people vibing with the movie who clearly haven't

532
00:32:00,400 --> 00:32:02,440
Speaker 4: read the book, who are not, you know, sort of

533
00:32:02,520 --> 00:32:07,720
Speaker 4: in the bag for Doune, And I think what folks

534
00:32:07,840 --> 00:32:09,600
Speaker 4: take away from it, like, and we have folks in

535
00:32:09,640 --> 00:32:12,560
Speaker 4: our lives who are in that camp, is just the

536
00:32:12,560 --> 00:32:14,920
Speaker 4: there's like, oh, there's a whole world here to explore,

537
00:32:14,960 --> 00:32:17,200
Speaker 4: Like there's something new and fresh here that I want

538
00:32:17,200 --> 00:32:19,360
Speaker 4: to see more stories from. And so the number of

539
00:32:19,360 --> 00:32:21,120
Speaker 4: people who haven't read the book and who are now

540
00:32:21,200 --> 00:32:23,520
Speaker 4: hungry for part two because they're like, I just want

541
00:32:23,560 --> 00:32:25,880
Speaker 4: to hear more of this right now is really encouraging.

542
00:32:26,840 --> 00:32:28,800
Speaker 7: I gauged it off a neighbor of mine who had

543
00:32:28,840 --> 00:32:32,480
Speaker 7: no experience whatsoever, and she was just like, this is incredible.

544
00:32:32,600 --> 00:32:35,120
Speaker 7: It was so we saw it an imax, and she's like,

545
00:32:35,160 --> 00:32:36,920
Speaker 7: I just couldn't believe what I was seeing on screen.

546
00:32:37,400 --> 00:32:40,400
Speaker 7: And I got everything about there's like a prophetic thing

547
00:32:40,480 --> 00:32:43,480
Speaker 7: and a and a messiah situation. That doesn't sound real good.

548
00:32:44,080 --> 00:32:46,200
Speaker 7: She's like, I was a little confused by the shields,

549
00:32:46,280 --> 00:32:46,880
Speaker 7: but other.

550
00:32:46,760 --> 00:32:48,560
Speaker 2: Than that sound real good.

551
00:32:50,040 --> 00:32:50,719
Speaker 6: So I'll take that.

552
00:32:50,760 --> 00:32:52,960
Speaker 7: I'll take getting the prophetic but missing the shield you know,

553
00:32:53,000 --> 00:32:53,920
Speaker 7: blue versus red.

554
00:32:53,960 --> 00:32:54,560
Speaker 2: Like, that's fine.

555
00:32:55,320 --> 00:32:57,000
Speaker 1: Let's come back to the shields because that was one

556
00:32:57,000 --> 00:33:00,960
Speaker 1: of the first things that I DM TJ. We can

557
00:33:01,000 --> 00:33:04,440
Speaker 1: get to that small nitpick there. What what's your relationship

558
00:33:04,480 --> 00:33:06,800
Speaker 1: to this, to the story? Where did it find you

559
00:33:06,840 --> 00:33:10,560
Speaker 1: in your lives? You know, how did you first encounter it?

560
00:33:10,600 --> 00:33:13,280
Speaker 7: Well, my brother turned me on to Dune when I

561
00:33:13,480 --> 00:33:16,840
Speaker 7: was eleven years old. This was back in the early eighties,

562
00:33:17,120 --> 00:33:19,440
Speaker 7: and I as a young kid, I took a trip

563
00:33:19,480 --> 00:33:21,920
Speaker 7: to California and I took Dune with me on the

564
00:33:21,960 --> 00:33:24,720
Speaker 7: plane and I read the first three books many times.

565
00:33:24,920 --> 00:33:26,480
Speaker 2: Saw the Lynch film in the.

566
00:33:26,360 --> 00:33:29,760
Speaker 7: Theater where they actually had a glossary term sheet that

567
00:33:29,800 --> 00:33:34,400
Speaker 7: they handed out to him. Crazy, but so I was like,

568
00:33:34,600 --> 00:33:37,120
Speaker 7: I've been a fan my whole life, although I strangely

569
00:33:37,160 --> 00:33:40,040
Speaker 7: skipped both sci fi mini series until this year.

570
00:33:40,760 --> 00:33:46,000
Speaker 2: Get out mind exactly.

571
00:33:46,320 --> 00:33:48,520
Speaker 4: That's that's what spoke to age as a young child,

572
00:33:48,680 --> 00:33:52,120
Speaker 4: he felt that there was someone in his mind he

573
00:33:52,280 --> 00:33:53,800
Speaker 4: just needed to find the language to get.

574
00:33:54,360 --> 00:33:57,360
Speaker 7: Similar to Denny, I was very much seduced by the

575
00:33:57,400 --> 00:34:00,280
Speaker 7: power of Paul and the idea of a young you know,

576
00:34:00,360 --> 00:34:03,400
Speaker 7: a teenager that was able to exercise such control and

577
00:34:03,440 --> 00:34:04,920
Speaker 7: then influence out in the world.

578
00:34:04,960 --> 00:34:06,120
Speaker 2: That was very seductive.

579
00:34:06,480 --> 00:34:08,440
Speaker 4: And I think, you know, when we talk to folks

580
00:34:08,560 --> 00:34:10,799
Speaker 4: who have a history with Dune, there's there's actually it's

581
00:34:10,840 --> 00:34:13,759
Speaker 4: usually a common story where it kind of is like

582
00:34:14,320 --> 00:34:17,880
Speaker 4: sort of like joy division for precocious young nerds, like

583
00:34:17,920 --> 00:34:20,880
Speaker 4: at age thirteen, like an older brother turns you onto

584
00:34:20,880 --> 00:34:22,640
Speaker 4: this and it's like, hey, man, you want to have

585
00:34:22,680 --> 00:34:23,400
Speaker 4: your mind blown.

586
00:34:23,760 --> 00:34:25,080
Speaker 6: This has got worms in it.

587
00:34:25,080 --> 00:34:28,480
Speaker 4: And like, you know, it just it's it's like there's

588
00:34:28,520 --> 00:34:31,400
Speaker 4: just something about It's the boy goes on a journey story,

589
00:34:31,640 --> 00:34:35,360
Speaker 4: but it's just much weirder than you know, the Chronicles

590
00:34:35,360 --> 00:34:37,719
Speaker 4: of Narnia or whatever your analogs were before. Then.

591
00:34:38,760 --> 00:34:40,799
Speaker 1: Yeah, for me, I think, you know, I found it

592
00:34:40,840 --> 00:34:42,400
Speaker 1: in high school and so for me, it was like

593
00:34:43,960 --> 00:34:48,280
Speaker 1: there's something about the revelation that parents have these secret

594
00:34:48,280 --> 00:34:52,320
Speaker 1: lives and these secret ambitions and these you know, things

595
00:34:52,360 --> 00:34:54,680
Speaker 1: that they have planned out, that they are acting on

596
00:34:54,840 --> 00:34:58,080
Speaker 1: lives before you came into their life, and that those

597
00:34:58,120 --> 00:35:02,439
Speaker 1: can often be quite complicated. That part of it that

598
00:35:02,640 --> 00:35:08,640
Speaker 1: like emotional register, I found really compelling. And I loved

599
00:35:08,960 --> 00:35:11,920
Speaker 1: all the planning and all the strategy and the way

600
00:35:11,960 --> 00:35:14,799
Speaker 1: that people were all plotting against each other all the time,

601
00:35:15,080 --> 00:35:17,640
Speaker 1: you know, in the in the context of high school life.

602
00:35:17,719 --> 00:35:23,680
Speaker 1: That felt like really present. So I was absolutely transfixed

603
00:35:23,680 --> 00:35:26,240
Speaker 1: by the first book, which I think is the most

604
00:35:26,520 --> 00:35:30,160
Speaker 1: trophy of the books, certainly, like you know, the hero's journey,

605
00:35:30,400 --> 00:35:32,920
Speaker 1: the whole thing that is there, that is the path

606
00:35:33,000 --> 00:35:36,320
Speaker 1: that Paul is on. This book series subverts itself in

607
00:35:36,440 --> 00:35:40,200
Speaker 1: some pretty pretty dramatic ways, which I don't know how

608
00:35:40,280 --> 00:35:43,120
Speaker 1: much we want to talk about right now. You know,

609
00:35:43,160 --> 00:35:45,080
Speaker 1: there's a spoiler warning at the top of this, but

610
00:35:45,680 --> 00:35:52,040
Speaker 1: suffice to say, Frank Herbert was very, very distrustful of power,

611
00:35:52,520 --> 00:35:58,080
Speaker 1: and people who get power in this world don't become

612
00:35:58,120 --> 00:36:01,919
Speaker 1: good people. There are And so how do you think

613
00:36:02,040 --> 00:36:04,000
Speaker 1: should we get the sequels? And I'm very hopeful that

614
00:36:04,040 --> 00:36:06,640
Speaker 1: I think we will get them. How far do you

615
00:36:06,640 --> 00:36:10,000
Speaker 1: think we can go down that path of actually power

616
00:36:10,120 --> 00:36:14,080
Speaker 1: is bad and let's subvert every expectation you have about

617
00:36:14,080 --> 00:36:17,400
Speaker 1: this sweeping story about a boy who rises to prominence

618
00:36:17,400 --> 00:36:18,120
Speaker 1: in the galaxy.

619
00:36:18,360 --> 00:36:20,320
Speaker 4: I think you nail like the really interesting thing about it,

620
00:36:20,360 --> 00:36:23,799
Speaker 4: which is that Dune in nineteen sixty five in many

621
00:36:23,840 --> 00:36:26,960
Speaker 4: ways is both Lord of the Rings and Game of Thrones.

622
00:36:27,040 --> 00:36:30,640
Speaker 4: It's both like the treasure trove of tropes that trickle

623
00:36:30,680 --> 00:36:33,279
Speaker 4: down through the history of science fiction thereafter. But then

624
00:36:33,320 --> 00:36:35,759
Speaker 4: it is also the subversion of the genre and the

625
00:36:35,800 --> 00:36:41,040
Speaker 4: subversion of those tropes in one story. And Herbert definitely

626
00:36:41,120 --> 00:36:44,560
Speaker 4: believed that it's not that power corrupts, but that power

627
00:36:44,560 --> 00:36:48,440
Speaker 4: attracts the corruptible, and so his project.

628
00:36:47,960 --> 00:36:50,200
Speaker 6: Really is a warning about heroes.

629
00:36:50,239 --> 00:36:51,920
Speaker 4: And there's this line in a book about how no

630
00:36:52,000 --> 00:36:55,000
Speaker 4: more terrible faked befall your people than to fall in

631
00:36:55,040 --> 00:36:55,799
Speaker 4: the hands of a hero.

632
00:36:56,760 --> 00:36:59,120
Speaker 6: And we asked, we asked Villeneuve about this.

633
00:36:59,120 --> 00:37:01,240
Speaker 4: This is our questions, are you in for this because

634
00:37:01,239 --> 00:37:04,840
Speaker 4: this seems this seems weird, like this seems like a

635
00:37:04,840 --> 00:37:08,480
Speaker 4: tough story to sell, and he seems super down, like

636
00:37:08,560 --> 00:37:12,080
Speaker 4: he really wants to make part two, and he's talked

637
00:37:12,080 --> 00:37:14,520
Speaker 4: about making Messiah, which would be the book after Dune

638
00:37:15,200 --> 00:37:19,120
Speaker 4: as a trilogy, which is very much this trajectory of

639
00:37:20,160 --> 00:37:23,320
Speaker 4: a person who's attracted to power being inherently corruptible.

640
00:37:23,880 --> 00:37:27,480
Speaker 7: I think it's interesting. When we talked to Tim O'Reilly

641
00:37:27,760 --> 00:37:30,600
Speaker 7: last year. One of the things that when he interviewed

642
00:37:30,640 --> 00:37:33,320
Speaker 7: Frank when he was writing the book on him, Frank

643
00:37:33,400 --> 00:37:37,600
Speaker 7: called out that when he read Foundation and he saw

644
00:37:37,640 --> 00:37:41,480
Speaker 7: the Mule, he was like, well, this is interesting. What

645
00:37:41,520 --> 00:37:44,360
Speaker 7: if the mule was the hero of the story instead

646
00:37:44,400 --> 00:37:45,480
Speaker 7: of the villain of the story.

647
00:37:45,719 --> 00:37:49,640
Speaker 1: Right, yeah, well this is I'll talk about this in

648
00:37:49,680 --> 00:37:53,919
Speaker 1: my omnibus segment later, but I think that one way

649
00:37:53,920 --> 00:37:58,640
Speaker 1: to think about Dune is a conversation between Frank Herbert

650
00:37:58,680 --> 00:38:00,960
Speaker 1: and Isamov. I think The Dune is, in a lot

651
00:38:01,000 --> 00:38:07,080
Speaker 1: of ways a rebuttal and a criticism of Foundations, depiction

652
00:38:07,239 --> 00:38:11,279
Speaker 1: of imperial power throughout the galaxy and what that would write,

653
00:38:11,320 --> 00:38:14,680
Speaker 1: what that would mean. Let's talk about the Shields. I

654
00:38:14,719 --> 00:38:17,799
Speaker 1: think that if I have a nitpick, if I have

655
00:38:17,920 --> 00:38:20,440
Speaker 1: a nitpick about this movie, and I loved everything, I

656
00:38:20,480 --> 00:38:26,080
Speaker 1: love the casting I think is peccable, incredible, The performances

657
00:38:26,080 --> 00:38:28,560
Speaker 1: are unbelievable. I think Timothy shallow may I had an argument,

658
00:38:28,640 --> 00:38:30,640
Speaker 1: a big argument with a friend about like, oh, Chilo

659
00:38:30,719 --> 00:38:33,319
Speaker 1: May he's just like cute, he's not good. I'm like,

660
00:38:33,480 --> 00:38:36,919
Speaker 1: he's a fucking great actor. Like he's really good. When

661
00:38:36,960 --> 00:38:39,319
Speaker 1: he has the hand in the box, in the pain

662
00:38:39,400 --> 00:38:41,600
Speaker 1: box and he first gets that first tickle of pain,

663
00:38:42,120 --> 00:38:45,279
Speaker 1: he does this little smirk like, oh, I see what

664
00:38:45,320 --> 00:38:47,640
Speaker 1: you're doing. You're gonna make me feel pain in my

665
00:38:47,680 --> 00:38:50,920
Speaker 1: hand now. And that's the kind of shit that he

666
00:38:51,000 --> 00:38:54,080
Speaker 1: could do that nobody else can really do, these little

667
00:38:54,200 --> 00:38:58,799
Speaker 1: like looks and like where you you understand that this

668
00:38:58,880 --> 00:39:02,239
Speaker 1: is a child of wealth above all else, Like, yes,

669
00:39:02,320 --> 00:39:07,000
Speaker 1: he is a innately good kid who loves his family,

670
00:39:07,880 --> 00:39:11,160
Speaker 1: but like he's got that little imperiousness to him too,

671
00:39:12,080 --> 00:39:13,120
Speaker 1: and he just kills it.

672
00:39:13,200 --> 00:39:17,040
Speaker 2: I loved everything except the shields. Okay. So in the books,

673
00:39:17,680 --> 00:39:19,200
Speaker 2: shield fighting is super important.

674
00:39:19,239 --> 00:39:20,880
Speaker 1: So people are like, uh, you know a lot of

675
00:39:20,920 --> 00:39:22,520
Speaker 1: people come up to me like, okay, so this is

676
00:39:22,560 --> 00:39:24,200
Speaker 1: like twenty thousand years in the future. Where the guns,

677
00:39:24,200 --> 00:39:26,960
Speaker 1: where are the laser beams? Where's all the shit? Shield

678
00:39:27,000 --> 00:39:31,200
Speaker 1: fighting has changed the way people fight. There's also a

679
00:39:31,239 --> 00:39:35,280
Speaker 1: wide ban on you know, atomic weapons. But the shields

680
00:39:35,360 --> 00:39:38,360
Speaker 1: stop everything that comes in at pace. You have to

681
00:39:38,440 --> 00:39:41,400
Speaker 1: move in very slowly. With a blade in order to

682
00:39:41,440 --> 00:39:45,640
Speaker 1: penetrate into the shield. And this is important because this

683
00:39:45,800 --> 00:39:48,640
Speaker 1: color is the way Paul duels even without the shield,

684
00:39:48,719 --> 00:39:52,280
Speaker 1: which comes in is important later because he's able to see, oh,

685
00:39:52,360 --> 00:39:54,399
Speaker 1: this is a person who I'm fighting, a person who's

686
00:39:54,440 --> 00:39:57,080
Speaker 1: used to fighting with shields. Therefore the reaction time is different.

687
00:39:58,000 --> 00:40:00,560
Speaker 1: I didn't love the way that it was. You listen

688
00:40:00,600 --> 00:40:03,080
Speaker 1: the red and blue to let you know, Okay, blue

689
00:40:03,680 --> 00:40:06,960
Speaker 1: repelled by the shield. Red it gets in there. Fine,

690
00:40:07,000 --> 00:40:09,719
Speaker 1: that's good. That was necessary. But at the same time,

691
00:40:09,880 --> 00:40:13,400
Speaker 1: like when Dungan Idaho is going ape shit on the

692
00:40:13,440 --> 00:40:17,360
Speaker 1: started car, He's just like slashing them and they just yeah, yeah.

693
00:40:17,000 --> 00:40:19,239
Speaker 7: Well there's somewhere he's like like he hits and it's

694
00:40:19,400 --> 00:40:21,600
Speaker 7: there's a blue flash. But then he keeps the blade

695
00:40:21,600 --> 00:40:24,080
Speaker 7: and then drags it and then you get a red flash.

696
00:40:24,120 --> 00:40:27,320
Speaker 7: So I think there is some that they did. Jason

697
00:40:27,320 --> 00:40:29,360
Speaker 7: and I were calling out for us. The bigger challenge

698
00:40:29,480 --> 00:40:31,600
Speaker 7: was in the larger scenes, like where you had the

699
00:40:31,680 --> 00:40:34,279
Speaker 7: amazing three hundred style scene with the treaties on the

700
00:40:34,320 --> 00:40:40,400
Speaker 7: steps trees exactly, but once they collide, and I actually

701
00:40:40,400 --> 00:40:42,719
Speaker 7: sampled it for the episode, like all you can hear

702
00:40:42,800 --> 00:40:45,160
Speaker 7: is shields smashing and you can't really tell what's going on.

703
00:40:45,719 --> 00:40:48,800
Speaker 4: Yeah, and then the duel at the end without shields

704
00:40:48,840 --> 00:40:50,680
Speaker 4: is clearly the best fight in the movie because you

705
00:40:50,719 --> 00:40:52,759
Speaker 4: can see what's going on. So I think I think

706
00:40:52,760 --> 00:40:54,960
Speaker 4: that's ultimately what proves your point is that the visual

707
00:40:54,960 --> 00:40:58,879
Speaker 4: effect of the shield while like conceptually cool, uh, it

708
00:40:59,040 --> 00:41:02,640
Speaker 4: obscures the action in a way that doesn't really enhance

709
00:41:02,719 --> 00:41:06,719
Speaker 4: what's going on, but is a necessary plot point for

710
00:41:06,760 --> 00:41:08,040
Speaker 4: them to figure out some way to do.

711
00:41:08,280 --> 00:41:12,600
Speaker 1: Did you catch Did you catch Paul's finishing move on

712
00:41:12,600 --> 00:41:14,440
Speaker 1: on Jamas was like a little bullfighter?

713
00:41:15,120 --> 00:41:18,440
Speaker 8: Yeah, I didn't catch that.

714
00:41:18,440 --> 00:41:20,400
Speaker 2: That's great, that's a pretty good that.

715
00:41:21,200 --> 00:41:24,400
Speaker 4: The bullfighting, which is in the book like that the

716
00:41:24,440 --> 00:41:27,000
Speaker 4: grandfather dies in a bullfight, is like sort of a.

717
00:41:27,000 --> 00:41:29,920
Speaker 6: One line thing, and they really went with it in

718
00:41:29,960 --> 00:41:31,960
Speaker 6: the movie. It's all about bulls.

719
00:41:32,480 --> 00:41:36,279
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's all about listen, we're Scottish kind of with

720
00:41:36,320 --> 00:41:43,480
Speaker 1: the bagpipes. But also we've got this bullfighting thing very important.

721
00:41:43,800 --> 00:41:47,560
Speaker 1: Another musical just jumping around. Another musical cue that I

722
00:41:47,640 --> 00:41:53,440
Speaker 1: really enjoyed with the depiction of the Hearkenins as Baron

723
00:41:53,480 --> 00:41:57,920
Speaker 1: Harkinen is lording in his victory is like just enjoying it.

724
00:41:58,680 --> 00:42:03,480
Speaker 1: We get this very Russian national anthem kind of swelling,

725
00:42:04,440 --> 00:42:09,399
Speaker 1: hearkening theme, which to me seems like a reference to

726
00:42:09,440 --> 00:42:12,400
Speaker 1: the fact that Frank Herbert notably not a fan of

727
00:42:12,400 --> 00:42:17,799
Speaker 1: the Soviet Union. He modeled these characters after the Soviets.

728
00:42:18,200 --> 00:42:20,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, uh, tell us about that.

729
00:42:26,239 --> 00:42:28,080
Speaker 4: I mean, so it's yeah, I mean the baron Harkon's

730
00:42:28,080 --> 00:42:29,600
Speaker 4: first name is Vladimir, which.

731
00:42:29,360 --> 00:42:31,400
Speaker 6: Is kind of is a bit of a clue.

732
00:42:32,840 --> 00:42:35,480
Speaker 4: And you know, so Frank Herbert's politics was you know,

733
00:42:35,560 --> 00:42:38,480
Speaker 4: he was he really didn't like Kennedy, was really worried

734
00:42:38,480 --> 00:42:42,080
Speaker 4: about JFK being such a charismatic leader and what that.

735
00:42:42,080 --> 00:42:44,440
Speaker 2: We call him a libertarian, wouldn't?

736
00:42:45,160 --> 00:42:45,600
Speaker 6: What's up?

737
00:42:45,920 --> 00:42:48,480
Speaker 2: We'd call him a libertarian. Now do you think.

738
00:42:48,800 --> 00:42:50,200
Speaker 6: He'd be way into the coins?

739
00:42:50,320 --> 00:42:52,279
Speaker 5: He'd be way, he'd be waiting, he'd have his own,

740
00:42:52,760 --> 00:43:00,560
Speaker 5: he'd have a spicy for on bro would really was

741
00:43:00,760 --> 00:43:03,040
Speaker 5: isn't In later books, has a lot to say about

742
00:43:03,120 --> 00:43:05,719
Speaker 5: taxation is theft. Notably, after he had made a lot

743
00:43:05,760 --> 00:43:08,239
Speaker 5: of money, he literally came out against taxation.

744
00:43:09,120 --> 00:43:11,240
Speaker 6: He had his house and he had his house.

745
00:43:11,040 --> 00:43:12,560
Speaker 4: On Maui and was like, you know what, you know

746
00:43:12,560 --> 00:43:15,000
Speaker 4: what the ultimate evil in the galaxy is taxes.

747
00:43:15,520 --> 00:43:18,400
Speaker 1: Princess Princess eralon dispatch on taxes.

748
00:43:18,960 --> 00:43:25,920
Speaker 4: Yeah, the Snipes manifesto, Yeah, it was uh he he

749
00:43:25,920 --> 00:43:28,560
Speaker 4: he had like he really didn't believe in communism for sure.

750
00:43:28,600 --> 00:43:30,840
Speaker 6: That he didn't believe in technocrats either.

751
00:43:30,880 --> 00:43:36,280
Speaker 4: He didn't believe in any sort of bureaucracy where people could, uh,

752
00:43:36,440 --> 00:43:37,080
Speaker 4: you know, not.

753
00:43:37,080 --> 00:43:38,600
Speaker 6: Have a direct say in what happened to them.

754
00:43:38,600 --> 00:43:41,480
Speaker 4: The sort of the government that he believes in ultimately

755
00:43:42,080 --> 00:43:46,040
Speaker 4: is direct juries, where like, you know, people just vote

756
00:43:46,080 --> 00:43:48,960
Speaker 4: directly on what laws they think should exist, which is

757
00:43:49,000 --> 00:43:52,480
Speaker 4: a terrible idea, but that's what he that's what he

758
00:43:52,560 --> 00:43:53,200
Speaker 4: was going for.

759
00:43:54,719 --> 00:43:57,600
Speaker 1: I had a friend of mine be like, wait a second,

760
00:43:57,600 --> 00:44:01,200
Speaker 1: so what is the emperor wants the treaties out of

761
00:44:01,200 --> 00:44:03,520
Speaker 1: the way, but also gave them like a really cool

762
00:44:03,560 --> 00:44:09,440
Speaker 1: planet fellows, talk people through exactly what the emperors, what

763
00:44:09,480 --> 00:44:11,920
Speaker 1: the emperor is seeing like on the strategy table, and

764
00:44:11,960 --> 00:44:14,560
Speaker 1: so what the emperor's larger plan is here?

765
00:44:14,640 --> 00:44:18,480
Speaker 7: Well sort of foundationally, you have this notion of the Lanzarade,

766
00:44:18,640 --> 00:44:21,560
Speaker 7: which is the collection of the great houses, and they

767
00:44:21,560 --> 00:44:25,799
Speaker 7: are also shareholders in the sort of financial structure of

768
00:44:25,880 --> 00:44:29,640
Speaker 7: the imperium. And the emperor controls like forty two percent

769
00:44:29,840 --> 00:44:32,719
Speaker 7: or forty eight percent or something like that. And so

770
00:44:32,760 --> 00:44:35,400
Speaker 7: the concept is he's always trying to maintain this balance

771
00:44:35,400 --> 00:44:39,360
Speaker 7: of financial power to keep the different houses in line.

772
00:44:39,560 --> 00:44:43,480
Speaker 7: And so Lato calls out that the great houses look

773
00:44:43,560 --> 00:44:46,080
Speaker 7: to us for leadership, and if we can do this,

774
00:44:46,120 --> 00:44:47,840
Speaker 7: will become more powerful than ever. So he is a

775
00:44:47,840 --> 00:44:50,919
Speaker 7: little thirsty for power in the midst of this. He's

776
00:44:50,960 --> 00:44:53,279
Speaker 7: not just there to like hang out with the Fremen.

777
00:44:53,200 --> 00:44:56,239
Speaker 1: Right, I love the Fremen, I love the desert. I'm

778
00:44:56,280 --> 00:44:59,080
Speaker 1: just like, yeah, that's great.

779
00:44:59,280 --> 00:45:00,600
Speaker 6: Want to meet that mouse.

780
00:45:01,040 --> 00:45:01,719
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's it.

781
00:45:02,280 --> 00:45:04,400
Speaker 7: So it is a little bit more complicated, but essentially

782
00:45:04,440 --> 00:45:08,640
Speaker 7: this was the the Emperor's notion of pitting the Treatees

783
00:45:08,640 --> 00:45:12,359
Speaker 7: and the Hearkens against each other and ultimately damaging both

784
00:45:12,400 --> 00:45:13,560
Speaker 7: of them.

785
00:45:13,719 --> 00:45:15,640
Speaker 2: It just didn't turn out quite the way they expected.

786
00:45:17,600 --> 00:45:22,720
Speaker 1: I it's interesting to me when, uh, when Baron Arkanen

787
00:45:22,880 --> 00:45:26,360
Speaker 1: is able to say, oh, yeah, you just get palm,

788
00:45:26,360 --> 00:45:27,879
Speaker 1: they're going to be don't worry about it.

789
00:45:28,120 --> 00:45:30,960
Speaker 2: On fine, I guarantee it.

790
00:45:32,239 --> 00:45:32,399
Speaker 6: Now.

791
00:45:32,440 --> 00:45:35,080
Speaker 1: Listen, you can pick any sci fi story. But wouldn't

792
00:45:35,480 --> 00:45:37,919
Speaker 1: wouldn't the truth sayer be like that's a lie.

793
00:45:38,400 --> 00:45:38,600
Speaker 6: Yeah.

794
00:45:38,640 --> 00:45:40,680
Speaker 4: Well, the the funny thing about that is like there's

795
00:45:40,680 --> 00:45:43,400
Speaker 4: this concept like that people don't want to face the

796
00:45:43,440 --> 00:45:45,840
Speaker 4: truth sayer, so they they throw them out in the desert,

797
00:45:45,880 --> 00:45:48,680
Speaker 4: who don't kill them? Which is based which is based

798
00:45:48,719 --> 00:45:50,440
Speaker 4: on the belief that the truth sayer is only going

799
00:45:50,520 --> 00:45:53,160
Speaker 4: to ask the question like did you directly kill this person?

800
00:45:53,480 --> 00:45:55,680
Speaker 6: They say no, and there are no follow ups.

801
00:45:55,800 --> 00:45:58,960
Speaker 4: There's no there's no second question whatsoever, like everything, when

802
00:45:59,080 --> 00:46:01,040
Speaker 4: was the last time, When was the last time you

803
00:46:01,080 --> 00:46:03,239
Speaker 4: saw them? Like you know they were they in good

804
00:46:03,280 --> 00:46:05,919
Speaker 4: health the last time you saw them? Did you give

805
00:46:05,920 --> 00:46:06,960
Speaker 4: them a ride to somewhere?

806
00:46:07,080 --> 00:46:07,319
Speaker 9: Chill?

807
00:46:07,800 --> 00:46:10,200
Speaker 6: No follow up questions asked by the truth there.

808
00:46:10,920 --> 00:46:14,800
Speaker 1: So the Herricanans are, as Gurnie Hallick tells us, they're brutal,

809
00:46:15,120 --> 00:46:18,879
Speaker 1: And I actually love that line reading Yeah, I mean

810
00:46:19,440 --> 00:46:22,880
Speaker 1: because listen, there's not enough time for the backstory of

811
00:46:22,960 --> 00:46:25,719
Speaker 1: Gurney Halleck. But he has experienced with them, as he

812
00:46:25,760 --> 00:46:27,400
Speaker 1: says there and as you can tell by the emotion

813
00:46:27,440 --> 00:46:29,759
Speaker 1: in his voice, tell the audience what it is.

814
00:46:29,800 --> 00:46:32,200
Speaker 2: Why is Bernie so fired up about these Hearkanans?

815
00:46:32,719 --> 00:46:33,480
Speaker 6: So, as is the.

816
00:46:33,480 --> 00:46:36,160
Speaker 4: Case with most of the Atradees who are like who

817
00:46:36,160 --> 00:46:39,120
Speaker 4: are loyal to the family. That's whether that's Gurnie or

818
00:46:39,200 --> 00:46:43,360
Speaker 4: Duncan or doctor Yui. Even they've suffered in some ways

819
00:46:43,360 --> 00:46:46,000
Speaker 4: at the hands of the Harconins. And Gurney's family in

820
00:46:46,040 --> 00:46:50,239
Speaker 4: particular was killed by Harconins. And he has a scar

821
00:46:50,360 --> 00:46:53,080
Speaker 4: on his face that was given to him by the

822
00:46:53,080 --> 00:46:56,439
Speaker 4: beast Robin. You see in the opening prologue the bees

823
00:46:56,520 --> 00:46:59,480
Speaker 4: carrying this ink vine whip, and that whip was used

824
00:46:59,480 --> 00:47:02,560
Speaker 4: to scar are Gurnie in a time before the beginning

825
00:47:02,600 --> 00:47:04,240
Speaker 4: of the story in the movie.

826
00:47:04,560 --> 00:47:07,920
Speaker 7: And you don't get a showdown between Gurnie and uh

827
00:47:08,400 --> 00:47:11,920
Speaker 7: and Rabon in the book. And I think this is

828
00:47:11,920 --> 00:47:14,239
Speaker 7: maybe a good time to talk about Like Denny has

829
00:47:14,320 --> 00:47:17,160
Speaker 7: made a number of changes from the book to the

830
00:47:17,160 --> 00:47:18,960
Speaker 7: movie and almost.

831
00:47:18,560 --> 00:47:28,400
Speaker 2: Changed the depth of the screen is normally exactly, but

832
00:47:28,640 --> 00:47:30,360
Speaker 2: almost every one of them is amazing.

833
00:47:30,440 --> 00:47:32,880
Speaker 7: Like the idea of instead of having this boring eral

834
00:47:32,960 --> 00:47:36,480
Speaker 7: on intro, you have Chawny, you know, giving it from

835
00:47:36,480 --> 00:47:38,480
Speaker 7: the Fremen perspective and anchering it right there.

836
00:47:38,520 --> 00:47:40,319
Speaker 2: It's just like super smart. Yeah.

837
00:47:40,360 --> 00:47:45,319
Speaker 1: I like the epigram openings chapter openings in each in

838
00:47:45,360 --> 00:47:45,680
Speaker 1: the book.

839
00:47:46,200 --> 00:47:47,120
Speaker 2: I think are really cool.

840
00:47:47,840 --> 00:47:51,600
Speaker 1: Lynch tried to adapt those and they didn't really work.

841
00:47:51,760 --> 00:47:53,320
Speaker 2: It pretty much killed the momentum.

842
00:47:53,320 --> 00:47:55,239
Speaker 1: And I think I love that they are not in

843
00:47:55,320 --> 00:48:00,239
Speaker 1: this Let's talk about Uh, let's give the people kind

844
00:48:00,239 --> 00:48:03,200
Speaker 1: of like a context on some who these figures are

845
00:48:03,239 --> 00:48:06,759
Speaker 1: and what they mean to the galaxy. So THO for

846
00:48:06,880 --> 00:48:11,600
Speaker 1: Howat and Peter Derees, the mentats that work for House

847
00:48:11,640 --> 00:48:16,080
Speaker 1: and Treaties and House Hearken and respectively, who are they?

848
00:48:16,280 --> 00:48:19,839
Speaker 1: What is a mentat? And Peter in particular, we don't

849
00:48:19,840 --> 00:48:22,080
Speaker 1: get a lot of time with r ip to him,

850
00:48:22,840 --> 00:48:25,520
Speaker 1: but tell us who these people are and what their

851
00:48:25,520 --> 00:48:26,080
Speaker 1: importance is.

852
00:48:26,400 --> 00:48:28,920
Speaker 4: So ten thousand years before the events of the movie,

853
00:48:29,480 --> 00:48:32,040
Speaker 4: there was an event called the Butlerry and Jihad, in

854
00:48:32,120 --> 00:48:38,040
Speaker 4: which out of control artificial intelligence threatened the continued existence

855
00:48:38,200 --> 00:48:41,120
Speaker 4: of humankind and the humans wan and this is what

856
00:48:41,280 --> 00:48:45,560
Speaker 4: established the reign of the Padisha Emperor and the Carino family.

857
00:48:46,520 --> 00:48:50,560
Speaker 4: But they decided to never again make that mistake and

858
00:48:50,680 --> 00:48:53,560
Speaker 4: band all thinking machines. So there are no computers in

859
00:48:53,600 --> 00:48:56,880
Speaker 4: the world of Dune, and there's an explicit prohibition against

860
00:48:57,080 --> 00:49:00,000
Speaker 4: any technology that could resemble the functioning of a human mind,

861
00:49:00,760 --> 00:49:04,680
Speaker 4: and so as a result, they have developed humans that

862
00:49:04,800 --> 00:49:08,440
Speaker 4: are thinking computers. Uh, and these are mentats and they

863
00:49:08,440 --> 00:49:11,320
Speaker 4: go to a special training from a very young age

864
00:49:11,560 --> 00:49:14,319
Speaker 4: and they learn how to do this type of computation

865
00:49:14,960 --> 00:49:17,680
Speaker 4: uh that you would otherwise rely on a computer on

866
00:49:18,000 --> 00:49:20,919
Speaker 4: for And so when you see the mentat's eyes roll back,

867
00:49:21,000 --> 00:49:23,799
Speaker 4: that's Villain OF's Q that they're doing, you know, some

868
00:49:23,920 --> 00:49:26,680
Speaker 4: kind of terraflop computation in their heads.

869
00:49:27,200 --> 00:49:30,239
Speaker 7: But they were pretty sidelined in this film. And the

870
00:49:30,280 --> 00:49:33,319
Speaker 7: other piece that's in the book that was basically excized

871
00:49:33,840 --> 00:49:36,520
Speaker 7: is that Paul has been trained as a mentat as well.

872
00:49:36,719 --> 00:49:39,279
Speaker 7: I had forgotten that until we re read it last

873
00:49:39,320 --> 00:49:40,439
Speaker 7: year and I was like, oh, holy shit.

874
00:49:41,719 --> 00:49:45,000
Speaker 1: So that was he's a mentat, Benny Jesuit, So it's

875
00:49:45,280 --> 00:49:48,120
Speaker 1: all he's dual chocolate and the peanut butter together.

876
00:49:48,200 --> 00:49:50,759
Speaker 6: Yeah, he got extra ability points at the beginning of

877
00:49:50,800 --> 00:49:51,640
Speaker 6: his round op.

878
00:49:52,320 --> 00:49:56,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, so let's Peter Derez, who is the mentat of

879
00:49:56,960 --> 00:49:59,640
Speaker 1: the Hercans. I should add that through. For Hawat is

880
00:49:59,719 --> 00:50:04,480
Speaker 1: like famous, a famous mentet like he is. This is

881
00:50:04,520 --> 00:50:08,080
Speaker 1: one of the best, most feared, most capable, most intelligent

882
00:50:08,160 --> 00:50:09,160
Speaker 1: mentats out there.

883
00:50:09,239 --> 00:50:11,040
Speaker 2: He is a huge.

884
00:50:10,719 --> 00:50:16,919
Speaker 1: Part of the success of House to treaties. Reason that

885
00:50:17,000 --> 00:50:19,160
Speaker 1: the lands Rad looks to how the treaties is in

886
00:50:19,200 --> 00:50:19,799
Speaker 1: part because of.

887
00:50:20,680 --> 00:50:22,960
Speaker 6: Don't don't be fooled by the parasol he's got.

888
00:50:23,000 --> 00:50:27,560
Speaker 1: Other is in part because of how good Duffer is

889
00:50:27,760 --> 00:50:32,000
Speaker 1: at his job. And then his his mirror image is

890
00:50:32,160 --> 00:50:34,680
Speaker 1: Peter Deriz, who is in the books known as a

891
00:50:34,719 --> 00:50:35,640
Speaker 1: twisted Mentat.

892
00:50:35,680 --> 00:50:37,680
Speaker 2: So what is who is he? What is his deal?

893
00:50:37,719 --> 00:50:38,840
Speaker 2: The twisted Mentats.

894
00:50:38,840 --> 00:50:42,920
Speaker 7: There's this notion there's a branch called the Bennetts le

895
00:50:43,040 --> 00:50:45,360
Speaker 7: Lax and they are sort of like these specialists in

896
00:50:45,440 --> 00:50:49,960
Speaker 7: breeding programs and these different alternate techniques of things, and

897
00:50:50,080 --> 00:50:53,880
Speaker 7: they have a separate program from the main Mentat training

898
00:50:53,880 --> 00:50:57,480
Speaker 7: program where they're basically making their own mentats. Who are

899
00:50:57,840 --> 00:51:00,000
Speaker 7: part of it is not just the computation but also

900
00:51:00,120 --> 00:51:04,200
Speaker 7: the sort of tapping into deeper consciousness and universal elements,

901
00:51:05,200 --> 00:51:07,680
Speaker 7: and so you end up with some that get broken

902
00:51:08,000 --> 00:51:10,960
Speaker 7: and are willing to use their powers for bad And

903
00:51:10,960 --> 00:51:14,040
Speaker 7: that's basically Pider is like the poster child of that.

904
00:51:14,080 --> 00:51:15,560
Speaker 2: He's like the ultimate twisted Mentat.

905
00:51:16,160 --> 00:51:19,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, the Bennythilli lax Uh, they will bring you gifts

906
00:51:19,239 --> 00:51:20,280
Speaker 1: and the gifts will be weird.

907
00:51:21,640 --> 00:51:23,759
Speaker 7: Well, should we talk Should we talk weird, which is

908
00:51:23,760 --> 00:51:25,600
Speaker 7: while we're talking harken it should we talk to Spider

909
00:51:25,640 --> 00:51:26,200
Speaker 7: saying are you.

910
00:51:26,200 --> 00:51:29,399
Speaker 2: Ready let's talk about the spider? Yeah.

911
00:51:29,440 --> 00:51:32,480
Speaker 6: So the spider is completely extra textual. There's no spider.

912
00:51:32,640 --> 00:51:34,600
Speaker 6: There's no spider in the book. Uh.

913
00:51:34,640 --> 00:51:36,319
Speaker 4: There's you know, there's a scene in the movie in

914
00:51:36,360 --> 00:51:38,680
Speaker 4: which it's the Reverend Mother, Peter Deres and the baron

915
00:51:38,760 --> 00:51:41,600
Speaker 4: and there's a spider creature in the background grubbing.

916
00:51:41,280 --> 00:51:42,400
Speaker 6: On some bowl of stuff.

917
00:51:42,880 --> 00:51:46,520
Speaker 4: Uh, and the Reverend Mother dismisses it with the voice

918
00:51:46,520 --> 00:51:47,480
Speaker 4: and I.

919
00:51:47,400 --> 00:51:51,480
Speaker 1: Don't want to talk to you with around that has

920
00:51:51,600 --> 00:51:52,360
Speaker 1: human hands.

921
00:51:52,480 --> 00:51:55,440
Speaker 6: It has human hands and is in fact portrayed by

922
00:51:55,480 --> 00:51:56,200
Speaker 6: a human woman.

923
00:51:56,520 --> 00:51:59,880
Speaker 4: It's the performer of the spider is credited, and you

924
00:52:00,160 --> 00:52:03,239
Speaker 4: see her do this like spider dance. It's like, you know,

925
00:52:03,440 --> 00:52:07,120
Speaker 4: they got the top spider lady available, uh to do this.

926
00:52:07,520 --> 00:52:07,880
Speaker 6: Uh.

927
00:52:07,920 --> 00:52:10,759
Speaker 4: And so there's a lot of fans speculation about what

928
00:52:10,840 --> 00:52:12,680
Speaker 4: this means and and.

929
00:52:12,440 --> 00:52:13,600
Speaker 6: Why is this in there?

930
00:52:14,000 --> 00:52:15,799
Speaker 4: And it should just be noted that it's possible that

931
00:52:15,840 --> 00:52:18,560
Speaker 4: Denny Villeneuve has a spider fetish. He's got a whole

932
00:52:18,560 --> 00:52:25,480
Speaker 4: movie is with the legs.

933
00:52:25,480 --> 00:52:29,839
Speaker 2: There is unbelievable.

934
00:52:31,120 --> 00:52:32,560
Speaker 6: Yeah, so so he has a.

935
00:52:32,520 --> 00:52:35,040
Speaker 4: Movie enemy with Jake jillen Holm, which spiders are an

936
00:52:35,080 --> 00:52:38,680
Speaker 4: object of sexual fascination, So that just might be a thing.

937
00:52:39,360 --> 00:52:41,960
Speaker 4: The theory that we like, that we are, that we

938
00:52:42,040 --> 00:52:45,440
Speaker 4: and others have arrived at independently is that the spider

939
00:52:45,880 --> 00:52:50,120
Speaker 4: is either a Harkening or Benny tlay lax uh body

940
00:52:50,239 --> 00:52:55,840
Speaker 4: torture of someone or specifically doctor Yueie's wife Wanna, because

941
00:52:55,840 --> 00:52:59,600
Speaker 4: he mentions that she's being torn apart like a doll. Uh.

942
00:52:59,719 --> 00:53:02,520
Speaker 4: And it's possible that they're just doing some you know,

943
00:53:02,840 --> 00:53:07,120
Speaker 4: tusk style body horse stuff turning people into bugs and

944
00:53:07,160 --> 00:53:07,760
Speaker 4: other creatures.

945
00:53:07,960 --> 00:53:09,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, and we should we should call out the Bennett's LEILACX.

946
00:53:09,960 --> 00:53:12,399
Speaker 7: As it develops through the series, it's revealed that once

947
00:53:12,440 --> 00:53:15,080
Speaker 7: someone dies, they can actually take their cells and they

948
00:53:15,080 --> 00:53:18,680
Speaker 7: can regrow that person and bring them back. So perhaps

949
00:53:18,760 --> 00:53:22,200
Speaker 7: Wanna has been brought back as this spider human thing

950
00:53:23,200 --> 00:53:24,319
Speaker 7: that is crawling around there.

951
00:53:24,640 --> 00:53:28,719
Speaker 1: Oh, the golas, the golas and if we get there,

952
00:53:28,800 --> 00:53:33,000
Speaker 1: get ready for some weird Sola action. Yeah, you mentioned

953
00:53:33,400 --> 00:53:36,440
Speaker 1: doctor Ewe And it's not really a big thing in

954
00:53:36,480 --> 00:53:40,440
Speaker 1: the movie, but it is supposed to be not possible

955
00:53:41,040 --> 00:53:44,680
Speaker 1: to turn someone who has undergone the Imperial conditioning, as

956
00:53:44,719 --> 00:53:49,320
Speaker 1: doctor Wellington you has against their employer, against their house.

957
00:53:50,040 --> 00:53:51,560
Speaker 2: Why was that able to be done?

958
00:53:51,680 --> 00:53:54,120
Speaker 1: And tell us about that conditioning, why this is such

959
00:53:54,160 --> 00:53:56,360
Speaker 1: a big deal and why this was such a blind

960
00:53:56,360 --> 00:53:59,440
Speaker 1: spot for House of Treaties. This is it's not supposed

961
00:53:59,440 --> 00:54:01,640
Speaker 1: to be a thing that anyone can do.

962
00:54:02,040 --> 00:54:02,320
Speaker 6: Yeah.

963
00:54:02,320 --> 00:54:04,440
Speaker 4: So this is one of the things that's in a

964
00:54:04,480 --> 00:54:07,400
Speaker 4: lot of Doune is that there's this idea of deep

965
00:54:07,719 --> 00:54:11,279
Speaker 4: psychological conditioning that people can go under that makes it

966
00:54:11,320 --> 00:54:14,240
Speaker 4: impossible for them to do things or creates a vulnerability

967
00:54:14,560 --> 00:54:16,760
Speaker 4: for them that they can be controlled with a word.

968
00:54:17,080 --> 00:54:20,880
Speaker 4: And for this special class of doctors, the Souk doctors,

969
00:54:21,560 --> 00:54:24,400
Speaker 4: they are trained and conditioned to not just take a

970
00:54:24,440 --> 00:54:28,600
Speaker 4: hippocratic oath to do no harm, but are psychologically manipulated

971
00:54:28,600 --> 00:54:30,520
Speaker 4: such that it is impossible for them to harm the

972
00:54:30,560 --> 00:54:33,320
Speaker 4: people that they serve, and in doing so are enabled

973
00:54:33,400 --> 00:54:39,080
Speaker 4: to treat people like the Emperor himself. Yui becomes corruptible

974
00:54:39,360 --> 00:54:43,160
Speaker 4: because the Hearkenans have his wife Wana and his love

975
00:54:43,200 --> 00:54:45,200
Speaker 4: for her and his anguish over what's happened to her.

976
00:54:45,239 --> 00:54:48,799
Speaker 4: She's being tortured by them overrides his conditioning such that

977
00:54:48,880 --> 00:54:50,600
Speaker 4: he's able to be turned into a trader.

978
00:54:51,160 --> 00:54:53,439
Speaker 2: It's a weird concept, but it reflects two things.

979
00:54:53,440 --> 00:54:57,400
Speaker 7: One the idea that poison and assassination is one of

980
00:54:57,440 --> 00:55:01,839
Speaker 7: the most Because shields have made most type of warfare irrelevant,

981
00:55:02,080 --> 00:55:06,279
Speaker 7: assassination and poison becomes really important. So the Souk doctors

982
00:55:06,480 --> 00:55:09,120
Speaker 7: are really critical, you know, trusted service.

983
00:55:09,320 --> 00:55:11,600
Speaker 2: The second piece is just you have Duke.

984
00:55:11,560 --> 00:55:15,399
Speaker 7: Ledo, who is this capable and together guy, and he's

985
00:55:15,920 --> 00:55:19,200
Speaker 7: looking at everything, but you count on the sun rising

986
00:55:19,239 --> 00:55:22,080
Speaker 7: every day, and you count on your Sook doctor being trustworthy.

987
00:55:22,280 --> 00:55:23,759
Speaker 7: So that just is a blind spot that it was

988
00:55:23,760 --> 00:55:25,399
Speaker 7: impossible for him to be prepared for.

989
00:55:25,800 --> 00:55:28,760
Speaker 1: Are there any parts of this movie that just stood

990
00:55:28,760 --> 00:55:33,120
Speaker 1: out as something you really didn't expect and really really enjoyed, Like,

991
00:55:33,160 --> 00:55:35,000
Speaker 1: what was your favorite part of this movie?

992
00:55:35,080 --> 00:55:37,600
Speaker 2: Essentially, I'll say my favorite part.

993
00:55:37,680 --> 00:55:39,719
Speaker 7: And when we talked about the book in the very

994
00:55:39,719 --> 00:55:42,400
Speaker 7: first episode of the podcast, we talked about the scene

995
00:55:42,440 --> 00:55:45,879
Speaker 7: with Jessica and Paul in the tent at the end

996
00:55:45,920 --> 00:55:48,839
Speaker 7: of Book One as a favorite moment in the entire

997
00:55:48,880 --> 00:55:52,960
Speaker 7: book for me, that whole scene of how that unfolds

998
00:55:53,080 --> 00:55:55,600
Speaker 7: and the fact that they don't flinch from the notion

999
00:55:55,800 --> 00:55:59,399
Speaker 7: that there's scary business that is out there, and it's

1000
00:55:59,480 --> 00:56:02,560
Speaker 7: driven by Paul's initial reaction to the spice within the tent.

1001
00:56:02,680 --> 00:56:06,399
Speaker 7: So you have this psychoactive aspect. But the shot of

1002
00:56:06,480 --> 00:56:10,640
Speaker 7: Paul and Chawny in all black standing up on the

1003
00:56:10,680 --> 00:56:12,839
Speaker 7: ship looking down, that's just.

1004
00:56:12,840 --> 00:56:17,160
Speaker 2: Like the HOD watching the sweep across the galaxy.

1005
00:56:16,760 --> 00:56:19,200
Speaker 6: Their their g hot VIP viewing station.

1006
00:56:21,680 --> 00:56:23,800
Speaker 7: That's incredible to me. That's the highlight. That's the highlight

1007
00:56:23,840 --> 00:56:24,440
Speaker 7: of the whole movie.

1008
00:56:24,520 --> 00:56:26,479
Speaker 1: Who is behind them on that in the ship, because

1009
00:56:26,520 --> 00:56:28,880
Speaker 1: there's it's them at the at the like kind of

1010
00:56:28,920 --> 00:56:30,800
Speaker 1: the lip of the ramp right and then there's like

1011
00:56:30,840 --> 00:56:31,560
Speaker 1: two people behind.

1012
00:56:31,600 --> 00:56:33,800
Speaker 2: Who are the two people behind It's.

1013
00:56:33,680 --> 00:56:34,480
Speaker 6: It's not clear.

1014
00:56:34,840 --> 00:56:36,880
Speaker 4: I thought one of them in the vision might have

1015
00:56:36,960 --> 00:56:40,200
Speaker 4: been Jamis again, which which I want to talk about

1016
00:56:40,239 --> 00:56:44,040
Speaker 4: a bit. But then there's this idea that's established later,

1017
00:56:44,160 --> 00:56:47,480
Speaker 4: which is that Paul takes a group of Fremen and

1018
00:56:47,560 --> 00:56:49,840
Speaker 4: calls them the fade A Keen and they become his

1019
00:56:50,000 --> 00:56:53,480
Speaker 4: death commandos. So it's probably probably some of those bros

1020
00:56:53,520 --> 00:56:55,040
Speaker 4: that are just on his side.

1021
00:56:55,280 --> 00:56:57,920
Speaker 7: Yeah, I would imagine Corba as well, who emerges as

1022
00:56:57,920 --> 00:56:59,040
Speaker 7: a critical.

1023
00:56:58,880 --> 00:57:00,000
Speaker 2: Player in Missia.

1024
00:57:00,440 --> 00:57:02,320
Speaker 7: But this is an interesting thing, right, So what's happening

1025
00:57:02,400 --> 00:57:04,680
Speaker 7: right now after we've been railing against this for the

1026
00:57:04,719 --> 00:57:07,480
Speaker 7: last year and Denny, you know, famously kind of went

1027
00:57:07,520 --> 00:57:10,200
Speaker 7: to war for a while with Warner Brothers. The fact

1028
00:57:10,239 --> 00:57:13,720
Speaker 7: that this movie is available on HBO Max right now,

1029
00:57:13,960 --> 00:57:16,560
Speaker 7: so that we have this conversation and nerds all across

1030
00:57:16,560 --> 00:57:18,880
Speaker 7: the world are having this conversation and they immediately can

1031
00:57:18,920 --> 00:57:20,440
Speaker 7: bring it up and they can watch it, and they

1032
00:57:20,440 --> 00:57:22,560
Speaker 7: can look at it and they can screenshot it. Like

1033
00:57:22,640 --> 00:57:25,760
Speaker 7: it's feeding into a cultural moment here that is, you know,

1034
00:57:25,800 --> 00:57:26,920
Speaker 7: bigger than we expected.

1035
00:57:27,360 --> 00:57:31,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, Jason, you're a moment that you really enjoyed.

1036
00:57:31,040 --> 00:57:32,600
Speaker 2: And let's see. Let's talk about James.

1037
00:57:32,760 --> 00:57:35,760
Speaker 4: I love what they did with Jamis in this in

1038
00:57:35,800 --> 00:57:38,760
Speaker 4: this movie, like Paul kills Jamis in this duel.

1039
00:57:38,800 --> 00:57:40,680
Speaker 6: That's like a big turning point for his character. It's

1040
00:57:40,680 --> 00:57:42,600
Speaker 6: the first time he kills someone and it's it's this

1041
00:57:42,720 --> 00:57:45,040
Speaker 6: meaningful interaction and it's a great duel.

1042
00:57:45,720 --> 00:57:48,840
Speaker 4: But what they do with the prescient visions is you

1043
00:57:48,960 --> 00:57:52,000
Speaker 4: see Jamis in the visions, and I think this does

1044
00:57:52,040 --> 00:57:54,840
Speaker 4: something that the book can't do, which is sell this

1045
00:57:54,960 --> 00:57:58,920
Speaker 4: idea of there's multiple timelines that Paul is seeing, and

1046
00:57:58,920 --> 00:58:01,080
Speaker 4: in some of them he died, and some of them

1047
00:58:01,160 --> 00:58:04,240
Speaker 4: Jamis lives, and some of them Jamis becomes a friend

1048
00:58:04,280 --> 00:58:05,800
Speaker 4: and a teacher and is the one who's going to

1049
00:58:05,840 --> 00:58:07,440
Speaker 4: teach him how to ride the worm and is going

1050
00:58:07,480 --> 00:58:09,840
Speaker 4: to impart wisdom to him. And then in the one

1051
00:58:09,840 --> 00:58:13,080
Speaker 4: that pultimately chooses, he kills Jamis. And so that I

1052
00:58:13,120 --> 00:58:16,360
Speaker 4: think is a much more convincing portrayal of prophecy. And

1053
00:58:16,720 --> 00:58:19,560
Speaker 4: you know, this multiverse idea of how paulsyes the future

1054
00:58:19,920 --> 00:58:23,160
Speaker 4: than some of the more kind of LSD laced writings

1055
00:58:23,160 --> 00:58:26,480
Speaker 4: of Herbert where he's describing that kind of prescience.

1056
00:58:26,520 --> 00:58:27,880
Speaker 6: But it's a lot of like, you know.

1057
00:58:28,480 --> 00:58:31,120
Speaker 4: Many sausages strung out in front of me, and I

1058
00:58:31,160 --> 00:58:33,000
Speaker 4: picked the sausage I want to live in, and you're

1059
00:58:33,040 --> 00:58:36,040
Speaker 4: just like, bro, Like, I know I know about I've

1060
00:58:36,080 --> 00:58:37,400
Speaker 4: heard enough about the sausages.

1061
00:58:37,480 --> 00:58:38,720
Speaker 6: Like it's not helping.

1062
00:58:39,120 --> 00:58:42,480
Speaker 1: Another similar to that a thing that I thought was

1063
00:58:42,720 --> 00:58:45,240
Speaker 1: really brilliant, And again I think Villeneuve has done. I

1064
00:58:45,280 --> 00:58:48,360
Speaker 1: think he's done a great job of taking of using

1065
00:58:48,560 --> 00:58:52,520
Speaker 1: small details, whether it be the sound design, the visual whatever,

1066
00:58:53,040 --> 00:58:58,920
Speaker 1: to convey a larger thematic something that exists in the book,

1067
00:58:59,000 --> 00:59:01,000
Speaker 1: but do it in a way that that is visceral.

1068
00:59:01,360 --> 00:59:02,840
Speaker 2: And one of those to me is the voice.

1069
00:59:03,120 --> 00:59:07,080
Speaker 1: Uh so in the books, and this is not really

1070
00:59:07,120 --> 00:59:10,360
Speaker 1: explained in the movies, but the Benny Jesuit have access

1071
00:59:10,400 --> 00:59:15,720
Speaker 1: to the genetic memories of all this. Now Asterisk, all

1072
00:59:15,840 --> 00:59:19,800
Speaker 1: the sisters who came before, everything that they know, Benny Jesuit,

1073
00:59:20,080 --> 00:59:23,480
Speaker 1: who exists in our story knows, can call upon that wisdom,

1074
00:59:24,120 --> 00:59:28,440
Speaker 1: and thus they're able to with some accuracy, predict the future.

1075
00:59:28,480 --> 00:59:29,680
Speaker 2: Now the quiz as Hadera.

1076
00:59:29,760 --> 00:59:33,640
Speaker 1: Has access to the full memories and therefore can predict more.

1077
00:59:34,080 --> 00:59:35,959
Speaker 1: But the thing that I really liked was the way

1078
00:59:36,000 --> 00:59:40,160
Speaker 1: the voice modulates. It's it's uh, you know, it's Paul's voice,

1079
00:59:40,200 --> 00:59:42,480
Speaker 1: then it's the reverend Mother's voice, then it's Jessica's voice,

1080
00:59:42,480 --> 00:59:47,920
Speaker 1: then it's voice yeah, Shaani's voice, therefore embodying that idea

1081
00:59:48,560 --> 00:59:49,680
Speaker 1: of genetic memory.

1082
00:59:49,760 --> 00:59:53,600
Speaker 2: I absolutely thought that was a brilliant way to do it.

1083
00:59:54,120 --> 00:59:56,920
Speaker 1: Uh could you explain to the to the people what

1084
00:59:57,000 --> 00:59:59,480
Speaker 1: the genetic memory is, how that works, and why the

1085
00:59:59,560 --> 01:00:04,160
Speaker 1: quizart hot rocks it is a different kind of genetic memory.

1086
01:00:04,560 --> 01:00:08,200
Speaker 4: Yeah, So, the the Benny Jesuit have this ability because

1087
01:00:08,240 --> 01:00:13,320
Speaker 4: they ingest a huge amount of spice to access.

1088
01:00:13,200 --> 01:00:17,680
Speaker 1: Everybody, just NonStop.

1089
01:00:17,680 --> 01:00:18,680
Speaker 6: Just an unbelievable a.

1090
01:00:18,920 --> 01:00:21,120
Speaker 2: I mean, this is good spice.

1091
01:00:21,320 --> 01:00:23,520
Speaker 1: This is the good This is not the park spice.

1092
01:00:23,600 --> 01:00:27,480
Speaker 1: This is the real shit. This is the pure spice

1093
01:00:27,520 --> 01:00:32,360
Speaker 1: that you want in your helmet, just orbiting around your

1094
01:00:32,400 --> 01:00:35,080
Speaker 1: face all the time. Now we know what daft punk

1095
01:00:35,200 --> 01:00:35,360
Speaker 1: was on.

1096
01:00:36,280 --> 01:00:36,920
Speaker 2: Yeah.

1097
01:00:37,080 --> 01:00:39,919
Speaker 4: So like because of their you know, dank science, they're

1098
01:00:40,000 --> 01:00:44,800
Speaker 4: able to access these interior lives of previous sisters who

1099
01:00:44,840 --> 01:00:49,200
Speaker 4: have lived and basically converse with them, experience their memories.

1100
01:00:49,280 --> 01:00:49,440
Speaker 6: You know.

1101
01:00:49,480 --> 01:00:51,720
Speaker 4: There's a scene in a later book in which the

1102
01:00:51,800 --> 01:00:54,600
Speaker 4: rever Mother Superior there's an acolyte who's not yet gone

1103
01:00:54,600 --> 01:00:58,080
Speaker 4: through this, uh, and she's reading Tolstoy, and the Reverend

1104
01:00:58,080 --> 01:00:59,960
Speaker 4: Mother is able to say, it's like, oh, he actually

1105
01:01:00,120 --> 01:01:02,880
Speaker 4: wrote that while he was you know, at his daka,

1106
01:01:03,040 --> 01:01:05,920
Speaker 4: like sitting beside a stream that's not written down anywhere.

1107
01:01:05,920 --> 01:01:08,520
Speaker 4: That's just something I know because I've got Tolstoy inside me.

1108
01:01:08,960 --> 01:01:09,360
Speaker 6: Uh.

1109
01:01:09,400 --> 01:01:13,680
Speaker 4: And so like there's there's this notion of accessing prior lives,

1110
01:01:13,960 --> 01:01:15,360
Speaker 4: but only women can do this.

1111
01:01:15,640 --> 01:01:17,360
Speaker 6: In the Herbert universe.

1112
01:01:17,400 --> 01:01:20,320
Speaker 4: Only only reverend mothers can go within and take this

1113
01:01:20,760 --> 01:01:23,640
Speaker 4: otherwise lethal dose of spice, and many reverend mothers die

1114
01:01:23,800 --> 01:01:27,680
Speaker 4: and trying to do this. Any man who has tried

1115
01:01:27,680 --> 01:01:31,800
Speaker 4: to do this dies UH. And the there's the prophecy

1116
01:01:31,840 --> 01:01:32,080
Speaker 4: that the.

1117
01:01:32,120 --> 01:01:35,600
Speaker 2: Queen they tried to, they try to, they try.

1118
01:01:37,560 --> 01:01:40,200
Speaker 4: So there's this prophecy that once one day at Queitsasadarak,

1119
01:01:40,440 --> 01:01:43,000
Speaker 4: a male will come who's able to look inside UH

1120
01:01:43,000 --> 01:01:46,280
Speaker 4: and access this place that the beny Jesuit are unable

1121
01:01:46,320 --> 01:01:50,040
Speaker 4: to look into UH and become universes super being. So

1122
01:01:50,240 --> 01:01:53,200
Speaker 4: that's what's going on UH with these prior lives inside.

1123
01:01:54,520 --> 01:01:57,880
Speaker 1: Gentlemen, it has been delightful to spend this time with you.

1124
01:01:57,960 --> 01:01:59,600
Speaker 2: Please tell us, Please tell.

1125
01:01:59,480 --> 01:02:02,760
Speaker 1: The audience about Dune Pod and what it has. I

1126
01:02:02,760 --> 01:02:07,800
Speaker 1: got to say some of the vamping incredibly enjoyable. Excalibur.

1127
01:02:08,640 --> 01:02:11,560
Speaker 1: I had Excalibur on VHS as a child. Yes, I

1128
01:02:11,920 --> 01:02:16,440
Speaker 1: watched that movie absolutely not, absolutely not. Even the rated

1129
01:02:16,560 --> 01:02:21,160
Speaker 1: version is fucking crazy for a kid to watch. So

1130
01:02:21,240 --> 01:02:24,880
Speaker 1: I really enjoyed your pod on Excalibur an on the

1131
01:02:24,960 --> 01:02:31,360
Speaker 1: Throck outh Fus method. Tell us about Dune Pod and

1132
01:02:31,520 --> 01:02:33,000
Speaker 1: what you have coming up next?

1133
01:02:33,320 --> 01:02:33,720
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean.

1134
01:02:33,760 --> 01:02:35,840
Speaker 7: So this podcast, we started it because we wanted to

1135
01:02:35,880 --> 01:02:38,920
Speaker 7: focus on the films by the cast and crew, So

1136
01:02:39,000 --> 01:02:41,880
Speaker 7: we started with Denny with twenty forty nine and Arrival

1137
01:02:41,960 --> 01:02:44,120
Speaker 7: in Sacario. We did Call Me by Your Name with

1138
01:02:44,120 --> 01:02:48,280
Speaker 7: Timothy Shalome, and as we developed, we're focusing on films

1139
01:02:48,280 --> 01:02:50,680
Speaker 7: that are in the same genre or that we think

1140
01:02:50,720 --> 01:02:52,600
Speaker 7: are important. So the first thing to know is we

1141
01:02:52,640 --> 01:02:55,640
Speaker 7: talk about Dune every week, but we also don't only

1142
01:02:55,680 --> 01:02:58,760
Speaker 7: talk about Dune. So, for instance, next week we have

1143
01:02:59,160 --> 01:03:01,960
Speaker 7: one of the directors of House of the Dragon, the

1144
01:03:02,000 --> 01:03:04,960
Speaker 7: new Game of Throne show, Greg Ytanis, is coming on

1145
01:03:05,040 --> 01:03:07,680
Speaker 7: to talk twelve Monkeys, and the week after that we've

1146
01:03:07,680 --> 01:03:10,240
Speaker 7: got the showrunner, Ryan Condall from House of the Dragon

1147
01:03:10,280 --> 01:03:13,240
Speaker 7: to talk Aliens, and then two thousand and one the

1148
01:03:13,240 --> 01:03:16,040
Speaker 7: week after that. So if you like movies, if you

1149
01:03:16,280 --> 01:03:19,880
Speaker 7: like sci fi, you know, come on and just hear

1150
01:03:19,880 --> 01:03:22,680
Speaker 7: these amazing conversations that we have of really why these

1151
01:03:22,680 --> 01:03:24,240
Speaker 7: films are important and a lot of fun.

1152
01:03:24,800 --> 01:03:26,880
Speaker 4: Yeah, we've talked, we've joked about like it's sort of

1153
01:03:26,920 --> 01:03:32,360
Speaker 4: become h gen X genre movie podcasts instead of which

1154
01:03:32,400 --> 01:03:35,720
Speaker 4: has which has the advantage of being singable to the

1155
01:03:35,720 --> 01:03:38,200
Speaker 4: teenage Mutant Ninja Turtle song. So it's you know, it's

1156
01:03:38,440 --> 01:03:43,320
Speaker 4: Jen next Jon Movie Podcast. That's our that's our new deal.

1157
01:03:44,480 --> 01:03:44,720
Speaker 6: Uh.

1158
01:03:45,440 --> 01:03:47,200
Speaker 2: Once again, thanks for joining us.

1159
01:03:47,520 --> 01:03:50,680
Speaker 1: Yeah, thank you so much, Thank you so much. Up next,

1160
01:03:50,920 --> 01:04:10,560
Speaker 1: we'll crack open the Omnibus. Welcome to another chapter in

1161
01:04:10,600 --> 01:04:14,600
Speaker 1: the Omnimus where lower analysis and understanding come together. This week,

1162
01:04:15,200 --> 01:04:19,200
Speaker 1: let's talk about Space Empires, the origin of the trope

1163
01:04:19,240 --> 01:04:23,640
Speaker 1: of the Empire in space, and let's talk about more specifically,

1164
01:04:23,960 --> 01:04:28,320
Speaker 1: Frank Herbert's Dune. Frank Herbert's Dune, published in nineteen sixty five,

1165
01:04:28,440 --> 01:04:32,920
Speaker 1: built on the age old storytelling tropes of the hero's

1166
01:04:33,000 --> 01:04:38,040
Speaker 1: journey and the space Empire framework established by Isaac Asimov's

1167
01:04:38,080 --> 01:04:41,080
Speaker 1: Foundation series and combine them with Herbert's own interest in

1168
01:04:41,080 --> 01:04:47,640
Speaker 1: ecology and psychedelia to create something that was both very

1169
01:04:47,680 --> 01:04:49,920
Speaker 1: influential in the time that it was released in the

1170
01:04:49,920 --> 01:04:55,160
Speaker 1: sixties and is clearly because of the recently released Denny

1171
01:04:55,320 --> 01:05:00,200
Speaker 1: Villeneu film Something Timeless. Dune won the inaugural ninet teen

1172
01:05:00,280 --> 01:05:03,880
Speaker 1: sixty six Nebula Award for Best Sci Fi Novel and

1173
01:05:03,960 --> 01:05:06,800
Speaker 1: shared the nineteen sixty six Hugo Award for Best Novel

1174
01:05:06,880 --> 01:05:11,520
Speaker 1: with Roger Zilasni's This Immortal also called Call Me Conrad.

1175
01:05:12,160 --> 01:05:16,840
Speaker 1: Readers in the sixties and seventies were absolutely primed for

1176
01:05:16,960 --> 01:05:21,920
Speaker 1: Dune and for the themes of ecological destruction, mind expanding

1177
01:05:21,960 --> 01:05:28,000
Speaker 1: substances and charismatic revolutionary youth found in.

1178
01:05:28,000 --> 01:05:29,280
Speaker 2: Herbert's epics story.

1179
01:05:29,720 --> 01:05:34,120
Speaker 1: Rachel Carson's scientific expose Silent Spring, about the dangerous effects

1180
01:05:34,160 --> 01:05:37,960
Speaker 1: of wanton pesticide use on the environment, became a surprise

1181
01:05:38,040 --> 01:05:41,480
Speaker 1: hit in nineteen sixty two and kicked off the modern

1182
01:05:41,640 --> 01:05:46,400
Speaker 1: environmental movement and created the school of thought about what

1183
01:05:46,440 --> 01:05:50,160
Speaker 1: are humanity's effects on the environment. And of course, Dune's

1184
01:05:50,160 --> 01:05:54,560
Speaker 1: ecological message is even more keenly felt today in a

1185
01:05:54,640 --> 01:05:58,560
Speaker 1: world struggling to deal with climate change, struggling and failing.

1186
01:05:58,840 --> 01:06:02,560
Speaker 1: In nineteen sixty five, concerns about the use of LSD

1187
01:06:03,400 --> 01:06:07,600
Speaker 1: by the general public led the Swiss pharmaceutical company Sandoz

1188
01:06:07,960 --> 01:06:13,080
Speaker 1: to halt production of its surely weirdest product, but by then,

1189
01:06:13,120 --> 01:06:15,360
Speaker 1: of course, the genie was all the way out of

1190
01:06:15,400 --> 01:06:19,760
Speaker 1: the bottle. Popular use of LSD, more acid and other

1191
01:06:19,840 --> 01:06:23,120
Speaker 1: hallucinogens gave rise to the psychedelic movement of the sixties,

1192
01:06:23,120 --> 01:06:27,000
Speaker 1: which in turn gave that era its signature aesthetic texture,

1193
01:06:27,240 --> 01:06:30,800
Speaker 1: which of course is recognizable decades later. When you see Tidi,

1194
01:06:31,000 --> 01:06:33,880
Speaker 1: you understand this is a reference to the nineteen sixties

1195
01:06:34,600 --> 01:06:37,560
Speaker 1: and the rise of global youth culture. In the sixties,

1196
01:06:37,560 --> 01:06:40,760
Speaker 1: as the Baby Boomers came into their maturation and started

1197
01:06:40,760 --> 01:06:44,960
Speaker 1: to flex their economic and cultural muscles, placed young people

1198
01:06:45,040 --> 01:06:50,160
Speaker 1: at the center of a wide variety of conversations. Conversations

1199
01:06:50,200 --> 01:06:55,760
Speaker 1: about social justice, conversations about higher education, conversations about fashion,

1200
01:06:55,800 --> 01:07:01,280
Speaker 1: about music, about art, about sexual mores, about drugs, and more.

1201
01:07:02,200 --> 01:07:04,520
Speaker 1: Dune satistride all.

1202
01:07:04,400 --> 01:07:06,440
Speaker 2: Of these trends. Quote.

1203
01:07:06,680 --> 01:07:09,200
Speaker 1: Word is spreading on the West Coast grapevine about epic

1204
01:07:09,240 --> 01:07:13,320
Speaker 1: science fiction novel titled Dune reads the April sixth, nineteen

1205
01:07:13,440 --> 01:07:16,600
Speaker 1: sixty nine edition of the Boston Globes nationally syndicated column

1206
01:07:16,680 --> 01:07:23,120
Speaker 1: Youth Notes, alongside short paragraphs on the poor reputation of

1207
01:07:23,200 --> 01:07:27,080
Speaker 1: the CIA amongst American youth, two paragraph write up on

1208
01:07:27,120 --> 01:07:30,640
Speaker 1: the Peace Corps, and a profile of a then emerging

1209
01:07:30,680 --> 01:07:34,800
Speaker 1: Texas singer named Janis Choplin. The review on Dune continues

1210
01:07:34,880 --> 01:07:38,680
Speaker 1: quote written by Frank Herbert, a California newspaperman, the book

1211
01:07:38,920 --> 01:07:43,040
Speaker 1: surpasses the work of British storyteller JR. Tolkien as a

1212
01:07:43,080 --> 01:07:46,400
Speaker 1: feat of imagination. Now you may agree or disagree on that,

1213
01:07:46,920 --> 01:07:49,560
Speaker 1: but I think that's quite indicative of the kind of

1214
01:07:50,200 --> 01:07:54,120
Speaker 1: hype that Dune had in the late sixties and early seventies.

1215
01:07:54,520 --> 01:07:59,320
Speaker 1: One of the underdiscussed aspects of Dune is the way

1216
01:07:59,480 --> 01:08:03,520
Speaker 1: the story acts as a mirror, reflection and a kind

1217
01:08:03,560 --> 01:08:10,840
Speaker 1: of rebuttal to Isaac Asimov's iconic legendary Foundation series. Foundation

1218
01:08:11,200 --> 01:08:14,440
Speaker 1: is generally credited with inventing the now familiar trope of

1219
01:08:14,480 --> 01:08:19,120
Speaker 1: the Galactic Empire, of the trope popularized to a massive degree,

1220
01:08:19,240 --> 01:08:22,280
Speaker 1: of course, by Star Wars. Foundation first appeared as a

1221
01:08:22,280 --> 01:08:26,240
Speaker 1: series of short stories running an Astounding magazine, which is

1222
01:08:26,320 --> 01:08:29,120
Speaker 1: a sci fi magazine of the era, from nineteen forty

1223
01:08:29,120 --> 01:08:32,559
Speaker 1: two to nineteen fifty. The first four stories were published

1224
01:08:32,600 --> 01:08:36,120
Speaker 1: together in nineteen fifty one as the single volume book Foundation,

1225
01:08:36,680 --> 01:08:39,479
Speaker 1: which was then followed by the sequels Foundation in Empire

1226
01:08:39,600 --> 01:08:42,920
Speaker 1: and Second Foundation in nineteen fifty two and fifty three, respectively.

1227
01:08:43,680 --> 01:08:46,400
Speaker 1: Set fifty thousand years in the future, Foundation tells the

1228
01:08:46,439 --> 01:08:50,200
Speaker 1: story of the last years of humanity's galactic Empire, which,

1229
01:08:50,280 --> 01:08:52,760
Speaker 1: by the opening of the tale, spans some twenty five

1230
01:08:52,840 --> 01:08:56,439
Speaker 1: million planets. Ultimate authority over those worlds rests in the

1231
01:08:56,479 --> 01:09:00,320
Speaker 1: hands of the Emperor, who resides on Trantor, the imperial capital.

1232
01:09:00,360 --> 01:09:03,280
Speaker 1: But unbeknownst to the Emperor, his subjects, and essentially everyone

1233
01:09:03,280 --> 01:09:06,680
Speaker 1: in the galaxy, the empire is crumbling and is in

1234
01:09:06,720 --> 01:09:10,840
Speaker 1: fact mortally wounded already on its way out. Both Dune

1235
01:09:10,840 --> 01:09:14,280
Speaker 1: and Foundation are set a many millennium the future. Both

1236
01:09:14,400 --> 01:09:18,600
Speaker 1: deal with the stagnation of a galactic empire, the restoration

1237
01:09:18,680 --> 01:09:22,680
Speaker 1: of civilization, the role of charismatic leader, and said restoration,

1238
01:09:22,720 --> 01:09:26,600
Speaker 1: and both prominently feature a highly advanced system for predicting

1239
01:09:26,680 --> 01:09:32,240
Speaker 1: future events that fuses math, religion, and human psychology. In Foundation,

1240
01:09:32,760 --> 01:09:36,760
Speaker 1: the character Harry Selden, alone, the most brilliant man in

1241
01:09:36,760 --> 01:09:40,160
Speaker 1: the galaxy, creator of the advanced mathematical predictive model known

1242
01:09:40,200 --> 01:09:44,880
Speaker 1: as psychohistory, realizes the dire state of the empire, just

1243
01:09:45,000 --> 01:09:48,080
Speaker 1: as in Dune when the Emperor sends the atretes to

1244
01:09:48,120 --> 01:09:51,000
Speaker 1: the far flung planet of Iracus. In Foundation, the Emperor

1245
01:09:51,080 --> 01:09:55,200
Speaker 1: exiles Harry and his followers to Terminus, a barren planet

1246
01:09:55,240 --> 01:09:58,720
Speaker 1: on the galactic fringe. This, of course, is all to

1247
01:09:59,040 --> 01:10:02,120
Speaker 1: Harry's large her plan. He had planned to get exiled

1248
01:10:02,200 --> 01:10:07,720
Speaker 1: there and there, using science, using political maneuvering, using outright manipulation,

1249
01:10:08,439 --> 01:10:13,160
Speaker 1: and using semi regular appearances as a kind of ted

1250
01:10:13,280 --> 01:10:17,920
Speaker 1: talking hologram. Harry drives a multi century project to guide

1251
01:10:17,960 --> 01:10:20,519
Speaker 1: the human race out of the post imperial dark Ages.

1252
01:10:21,360 --> 01:10:25,000
Speaker 1: Frank Herbert's answer to Psychohistory and Dune comes in the

1253
01:10:25,040 --> 01:10:29,160
Speaker 1: forms of the quasi religious sisterhood known as the Benny Jesuit,

1254
01:10:29,680 --> 01:10:32,840
Speaker 1: and the human computer is known as Mentats. The Benny

1255
01:10:32,920 --> 01:10:37,560
Speaker 1: Jesuits use carefully deployed religious myths, an extensive and secretive

1256
01:10:37,640 --> 01:10:41,680
Speaker 1: system of genetic cross breeding in their own enhancedtabilities, particularly

1257
01:10:41,760 --> 01:10:45,400
Speaker 1: mind control, the ability to detect lies, and the ability

1258
01:10:45,439 --> 01:10:48,160
Speaker 1: to call on the collective wisdom of past Benages or

1259
01:10:48,200 --> 01:10:51,600
Speaker 1: its sisters to shape human history and bring about the

1260
01:10:51,640 --> 01:10:56,720
Speaker 1: birth of the quiztt'es Haderak, Dune's version of the Chosen One. Mentats,

1261
01:10:57,040 --> 01:11:01,480
Speaker 1: like Dune's Thuffer Hawat and Peter Devrees, are a human supercomputers.

1262
01:11:01,800 --> 01:11:05,400
Speaker 1: They provide their employers with services that in the days

1263
01:11:05,439 --> 01:11:08,320
Speaker 1: before the Butler and Ghid would be performed by a computer,

1264
01:11:08,840 --> 01:11:13,840
Speaker 1: while also using their highly attenuated perceptive abilities and understanding

1265
01:11:13,880 --> 01:11:19,000
Speaker 1: of human psychology to act as strategic advisors in military affairs,

1266
01:11:19,439 --> 01:11:25,040
Speaker 1: provide intelligence and counterintelligence, perform duties of diplomacy, and much more.

1267
01:11:25,520 --> 01:11:32,360
Speaker 1: In Foundation, Asimov imagines that placing a few unaccountable psychoanalysts

1268
01:11:32,400 --> 01:11:35,040
Speaker 1: at the center of immense power, as he does with

1269
01:11:35,080 --> 01:11:38,960
Speaker 1: Harry Seldon and the Foundation, and allowing them to steer

1270
01:11:39,080 --> 01:11:45,240
Speaker 1: humanity's fate according to a scientific reading of an advanced

1271
01:11:45,360 --> 01:11:50,679
Speaker 1: ALGORITHITHM is potentially the best of all political systems. Foundation,

1272
01:11:51,240 --> 01:11:56,480
Speaker 1: in thought provoking and very entertaining fashion, assumes that cold, emotionless,

1273
01:11:56,760 --> 01:12:03,080
Speaker 1: unbiased math is the best steward of humanity's destiny. Herbert, however,

1274
01:12:03,520 --> 01:12:07,559
Speaker 1: was a contrarian in all things, as Jason and h

1275
01:12:07,600 --> 01:12:11,479
Speaker 1: discussed I think quite ably in our previous segment, and

1276
01:12:11,880 --> 01:12:17,000
Speaker 1: he philosophically decried assumptions, even his own assumptions, much of

1277
01:12:17,040 --> 01:12:22,160
Speaker 1: the time. Perhaps because of this, Dune sequels subvert themselves

1278
01:12:22,360 --> 01:12:26,960
Speaker 1: and audience expectation in many many ways. This makes what

1279
01:12:27,080 --> 01:12:30,640
Speaker 1: will happen with the Dune sequels really interesting. I'm fascinating

1280
01:12:30,640 --> 01:12:32,479
Speaker 1: to see how some of those things end up playing

1281
01:12:32,600 --> 01:12:35,800
Speaker 1: out for audiences, Because people who are set up as

1282
01:12:35,800 --> 01:12:39,760
Speaker 1: heroes are undercut by this story. If you want a

1283
01:12:39,800 --> 01:12:43,439
Speaker 1: gold mine of science fiction material. Herbert advised, pull the

1284
01:12:43,439 --> 01:12:46,360
Speaker 1: assumptions out of the current bestseller list. Turn those assumptions,

1285
01:12:46,360 --> 01:12:48,799
Speaker 1: over look at them from every angle you can imagine,

1286
01:12:48,840 --> 01:12:51,800
Speaker 1: tear them apart, put them back together, put your new

1287
01:12:51,840 --> 01:12:55,439
Speaker 1: construction on another planet or on this planet changed, and

1288
01:12:55,520 --> 01:13:00,719
Speaker 1: place believable human beings into the conflict. Thus created Herbert's view,

1289
01:13:00,920 --> 01:13:05,680
Speaker 1: any system which purports to be the system, be it psychohistory,

1290
01:13:05,720 --> 01:13:11,639
Speaker 1: be it religion, be it republicanism, whatever, will inevitably result

1291
01:13:11,800 --> 01:13:17,840
Speaker 1: in inefficiency, stagnation, decline, the styming of human creativity. Just

1292
01:13:17,880 --> 01:13:21,719
Speaker 1: as Duclido search to harness desert power and iracis, Herbert

1293
01:13:21,760 --> 01:13:24,080
Speaker 1: explore the idea of harnessing human power.

1294
01:13:24,479 --> 01:13:27,080
Speaker 2: In Dune. Human beings alone.

1295
01:13:26,760 --> 01:13:30,920
Speaker 1: Perform the computations necessary to sustain a transgalactic empire. The

1296
01:13:30,960 --> 01:13:35,439
Speaker 1: spice Milange, a powerful psychoactive narcotic, makes this possible by

1297
01:13:35,479 --> 01:13:38,320
Speaker 1: allowing human beings to expand and augment their minds to

1298
01:13:38,400 --> 01:13:42,559
Speaker 1: superhuman levels. For a sci fi epics that many thousands

1299
01:13:42,560 --> 01:13:44,280
Speaker 1: of years in the future, I think it's notable that

1300
01:13:44,360 --> 01:13:50,080
Speaker 1: Dune is really light on the kind of like oh wow, technology, incredible,

1301
01:13:50,240 --> 01:13:55,799
Speaker 1: whiz bang scientific sci fi tech that marks most sci

1302
01:13:55,840 --> 01:14:00,719
Speaker 1: fi guild navigators. For instance, High on Spice, full old space.

1303
01:14:01,320 --> 01:14:05,560
Speaker 1: You know, without computer help, the most powerful space militaries

1304
01:14:05,720 --> 01:14:10,000
Speaker 1: in the galaxy fight with knives, and human society has

1305
01:14:10,080 --> 01:14:16,320
Speaker 1: essentially devolved into feudalism. Asimov hated this kind of scienceless

1306
01:14:16,360 --> 01:14:19,960
Speaker 1: sci fi. In Robert Skulls and Eric S. Rabkins nineteen

1307
01:14:20,000 --> 01:14:24,479
Speaker 1: seventy seven's science Fiction History, Science and Vision, Asimov is

1308
01:14:24,560 --> 01:14:27,400
Speaker 1: quoted saying there are science fiction writers who think science

1309
01:14:27,439 --> 01:14:29,280
Speaker 1: is a bad thing, and that science fiction is a

1310
01:14:29,320 --> 01:14:32,080
Speaker 1: wonderful field in which to make this plane. This is

1311
01:14:32,360 --> 01:14:35,080
Speaker 1: part of a much more general attitude that society is

1312
01:14:35,080 --> 01:14:37,360
Speaker 1: a bad thing and must be destroyed before a new

1313
01:14:37,360 --> 01:14:40,559
Speaker 1: and better system can be evolved. This may strike youngsters

1314
01:14:40,600 --> 01:14:43,200
Speaker 1: today as a daring novel notion, but when my great

1315
01:14:43,240 --> 01:14:46,600
Speaker 1: grandfather was a boy, they called it nihilism. Now, Asimov

1316
01:14:46,640 --> 01:14:50,400
Speaker 1: doesn't name check Herbert here or Kurt Vonnegut, or Ursula,

1317
01:14:50,479 --> 01:14:53,799
Speaker 1: Kay Legwin or gene Wolf, but he is surely talking

1318
01:14:53,880 --> 01:14:57,680
Speaker 1: about that new wave of sci fi writers who was

1319
01:14:57,960 --> 01:15:01,920
Speaker 1: rising at the time. Herbert retort to this comes in

1320
01:15:01,920 --> 01:15:04,960
Speaker 1: his book Heretics of Dune, the fifth book in the series,

1321
01:15:05,640 --> 01:15:08,120
Speaker 1: in which he writes, the holders of power in this

1322
01:15:08,160 --> 01:15:10,880
Speaker 1: world have not awakened to the realization that there is

1323
01:15:10,960 --> 01:15:15,360
Speaker 1: no single model of a society, a species, or an individual.

1324
01:15:15,439 --> 01:15:17,599
Speaker 1: There are a variety of models to meet a variety

1325
01:15:17,600 --> 01:15:21,080
Speaker 1: of needs. They meet different expectations and have different goals.

1326
01:15:21,439 --> 01:15:24,760
Speaker 1: The aim of that force which impels us to live

1327
01:15:25,160 --> 01:15:27,640
Speaker 1: may be to produce as many different.

1328
01:15:27,320 --> 01:15:29,040
Speaker 2: Models as possible. End quote.

1329
01:15:29,320 --> 01:15:30,920
Speaker 1: I don't know where you come down on this, but

1330
01:15:31,439 --> 01:15:34,960
Speaker 1: I think whatever style of sci fi you prefer, whatever

1331
01:15:35,040 --> 01:15:38,760
Speaker 1: depiction of galactic empire you prefer, be it Dune's, be

1332
01:15:38,840 --> 01:15:42,320
Speaker 1: it Foundations, be it Star Wars's. It's clear that the

1333
01:15:42,360 --> 01:15:45,799
Speaker 1: winner of this debate is us, the audience, the fans

1334
01:15:45,840 --> 01:15:49,320
Speaker 1: of sci fi who get to watch Foundation on television,

1335
01:15:49,400 --> 01:15:53,360
Speaker 1: Dune in the theaters, and Star Wars wherever we come.

1336
01:15:53,200 --> 01:15:56,639
Speaker 2: Into contact with content. Up next, The Endgame.

1337
01:16:06,280 --> 01:16:11,760
Speaker 1: Welcome to the End Game, a segment in which myself

1338
01:16:12,200 --> 01:16:14,880
Speaker 1: and a co host, Slash guest, play a game, and

1339
01:16:14,960 --> 01:16:21,400
Speaker 1: today that guest is New York Times multiple best selling author,

1340
01:16:22,240 --> 01:16:25,439
Speaker 1: writer of the show that has just been picked up

1341
01:16:25,520 --> 01:16:31,720
Speaker 1: by IMDbTV. My friend and former co host Shay Serrano,

1342
01:16:31,920 --> 01:16:35,520
Speaker 1: the man who accuses me of crimes almost.

1343
01:16:35,200 --> 01:16:37,880
Speaker 2: Daily on the internet. Shae, how are you so great

1344
01:16:37,920 --> 01:16:38,599
Speaker 2: to be here with you?

1345
01:16:38,760 --> 01:16:41,280
Speaker 8: I'm very happy to be back listening to your voice

1346
01:16:41,439 --> 01:16:44,400
Speaker 8: introducing me like that. It makes me feel real good.

1347
01:16:44,760 --> 01:16:48,439
Speaker 1: Say today, we are recording this on a Tuesday, and

1348
01:16:49,600 --> 01:16:52,560
Speaker 1: it is a special day because it is the official

1349
01:16:52,640 --> 01:16:55,879
Speaker 1: release of your book, hip Hop and other Things.

1350
01:16:56,479 --> 01:16:59,200
Speaker 2: Tell us about this book. Let's just talk about how

1351
01:16:59,240 --> 01:16:59,960
Speaker 2: awesome this book is.

1352
01:17:00,439 --> 01:17:03,120
Speaker 8: This is the greatest book that's ever been written. Many,

1353
01:17:03,400 --> 01:17:06,519
Speaker 8: many people are saying that pretty much everybody.

1354
01:17:06,080 --> 01:17:08,720
Speaker 1: I think I've I can't I every place I go

1355
01:17:08,800 --> 01:17:10,639
Speaker 1: people are talking about I went to get coffee today

1356
01:17:10,640 --> 01:17:11,920
Speaker 1: and people were talking about that that.

1357
01:17:12,040 --> 01:17:13,639
Speaker 8: When I got in my car, I turned on my radio,

1358
01:17:13,680 --> 01:17:16,680
Speaker 8: they were talking about it. I opened up Google. It

1359
01:17:16,760 --> 01:17:18,679
Speaker 8: was on the homepage of Google. It didn't even say

1360
01:17:18,720 --> 01:17:21,519
Speaker 8: Google anymore. It just said this is the best book

1361
01:17:21,560 --> 01:17:23,280
Speaker 8: I've ever read, with a picture of the book on

1362
01:17:23,320 --> 01:17:26,960
Speaker 8: there hip Hop and other things. And it's crazy the

1363
01:17:27,000 --> 01:17:29,920
Speaker 8: amount of good reviews we've been getting so far, every place,

1364
01:17:30,160 --> 01:17:30,759
Speaker 8: every person.

1365
01:17:30,800 --> 01:17:31,400
Speaker 2: You can think of.

1366
01:17:31,880 --> 01:17:34,000
Speaker 1: Something I've always wanted to ask you is, how are

1367
01:17:34,080 --> 01:17:39,040
Speaker 1: you so good at promoting your shit? Because, like I

1368
01:17:39,040 --> 01:17:42,240
Speaker 1: think that people I think that it's I really, I'm serious,

1369
01:17:42,280 --> 01:17:46,040
Speaker 1: Like I think that it's it's underrated. People don't realize

1370
01:17:46,160 --> 01:17:48,240
Speaker 1: one how hard it is to talk about the stuff

1371
01:17:48,240 --> 01:17:50,439
Speaker 1: you're doing in a way that people are not like,

1372
01:17:50,560 --> 01:17:55,599
Speaker 1: okay enough. You do it with an enthusiasm and an

1373
01:17:55,800 --> 01:18:02,719
Speaker 1: energy that is like so sincere and real, and I'm

1374
01:18:02,720 --> 01:18:05,880
Speaker 1: incapable of I can't get to that place a lot

1375
01:18:05,880 --> 01:18:06,200
Speaker 1: of times.

1376
01:18:06,280 --> 01:18:07,519
Speaker 2: How do you? How do you do it?

1377
01:18:07,600 --> 01:18:09,720
Speaker 8: Let's be clear, there are a bunch of people who

1378
01:18:09,720 --> 01:18:11,439
Speaker 8: are like, Shay, you got to shut the fuck up

1379
01:18:11,439 --> 01:18:14,120
Speaker 8: about this book already, like a lot of like I

1380
01:18:14,160 --> 01:18:17,439
Speaker 8: get it every every day on Twitter, every single every

1381
01:18:17,479 --> 01:18:21,120
Speaker 8: single day. But mostly everybody is very nice and supportive,

1382
01:18:21,320 --> 01:18:23,439
Speaker 8: which is great, And I think it's probably because of

1383
01:18:23,439 --> 01:18:25,920
Speaker 8: what you're talking about here. It's just I'm like genuinely

1384
01:18:26,000 --> 01:18:28,800
Speaker 8: excited about this stuff. Yeah, you and I we have

1385
01:18:28,880 --> 01:18:32,200
Speaker 8: like a similar coming up story where neither one of

1386
01:18:32,240 --> 01:18:35,439
Speaker 8: us expected to be where we are. We both we

1387
01:18:35,520 --> 01:18:38,240
Speaker 8: both assumed very early on that we would just be

1388
01:18:38,280 --> 01:18:41,840
Speaker 8: doing manual labor jobs for our whole entire life. So

1389
01:18:42,080 --> 01:18:44,679
Speaker 8: every day that we don't have to fucking pick something

1390
01:18:44,720 --> 01:18:47,720
Speaker 8: heavy up, we're just excited and we feel great, and

1391
01:18:47,760 --> 01:18:48,800
Speaker 8: that's what's going on here.

1392
01:18:49,120 --> 01:18:52,599
Speaker 1: Well, Shay, I asked you to watch the movie Dune,

1393
01:18:52,800 --> 01:18:56,599
Speaker 1: starring one of our favorites, Oscar Isaac as Duke Litto

1394
01:18:56,680 --> 01:18:59,560
Speaker 1: a treatise, or as I call him, dilf dilfla to

1395
01:18:59,640 --> 01:19:00,000
Speaker 1: a treaty.

1396
01:19:02,000 --> 01:19:03,800
Speaker 2: What did you think of Dune? Did you like it?

1397
01:19:04,160 --> 01:19:06,760
Speaker 2: Let's talk about it. I fucking loved it. Listen. I

1398
01:19:06,800 --> 01:19:09,080
Speaker 2: had I never read any of the books.

1399
01:19:09,320 --> 01:19:09,680
Speaker 6: I didn't know.

1400
01:19:09,720 --> 01:19:13,280
Speaker 8: I didn't know anything about the story, probably for three months.

1401
01:19:13,320 --> 01:19:15,519
Speaker 8: After they started talking about this movie was getting made

1402
01:19:15,520 --> 01:19:17,200
Speaker 8: a couple of years ago. I thought they were talking

1403
01:19:17,240 --> 01:19:20,439
Speaker 8: about the movie Doom, the video game Doom. I was like,

1404
01:19:21,439 --> 01:19:24,160
Speaker 8: I was like, I know that I played that video game. Oh,

1405
01:19:24,160 --> 01:19:26,559
Speaker 8: they're remaking that movie with the rock. That's a good idea.

1406
01:19:26,600 --> 01:19:28,439
Speaker 8: That's what I thought it was. I had no idea

1407
01:19:28,960 --> 01:19:32,720
Speaker 8: about desert power or anything. And then I started, you know,

1408
01:19:32,760 --> 01:19:34,920
Speaker 8: the picture started coming out, the trailer started coming out, Like, I.

1409
01:19:34,880 --> 01:19:37,200
Speaker 2: Don't think this is the same thing. This is a

1410
01:19:37,240 --> 01:19:37,760
Speaker 2: different thing.

1411
01:19:37,920 --> 01:19:42,120
Speaker 8: Where's the guns, where are the big guns? What's going

1412
01:19:42,160 --> 01:19:45,240
Speaker 8: on here? So I watched it and it fucking ruled.

1413
01:19:45,360 --> 01:19:49,680
Speaker 8: It was so it looked expensive. Number One which is.

1414
01:19:49,760 --> 01:19:52,760
Speaker 1: It looks expense. It looks so good. I mean, it

1415
01:19:52,800 --> 01:19:56,400
Speaker 1: looks so good. It looks like a million zillion billion

1416
01:19:56,479 --> 01:19:59,920
Speaker 1: bucks on there, every single like every single frame.

1417
01:20:00,640 --> 01:20:02,439
Speaker 8: The people who made it, you could tell they like

1418
01:20:02,920 --> 01:20:05,640
Speaker 8: they cared about every grain of sand, and like the

1419
01:20:05,680 --> 01:20:08,599
Speaker 8: way that it blew, the little fun even the little

1420
01:20:08,640 --> 01:20:12,120
Speaker 8: bug or whatever, this this spy the hunter thing that

1421
01:20:12,160 --> 01:20:15,599
Speaker 8: comes that's gonna stick him in his eyeball. When that

1422
01:20:15,640 --> 01:20:18,280
Speaker 8: thing came through the like every single little piece of it,

1423
01:20:18,280 --> 01:20:21,320
Speaker 8: it was just so much fun. I was super into it,

1424
01:20:21,400 --> 01:20:24,120
Speaker 8: like all the way plugged in. When it gets to

1425
01:20:24,200 --> 01:20:28,200
Speaker 8: the end and fucking Timothy shallow May gets into the

1426
01:20:28,240 --> 01:20:30,720
Speaker 8: fight with the guy when they're like, we're going to

1427
01:20:30,760 --> 01:20:33,080
Speaker 8: fight to the death, I like, I didn't so I

1428
01:20:33,080 --> 01:20:35,880
Speaker 8: didn't know anything was coming, and they and she the

1429
01:20:35,920 --> 01:20:40,799
Speaker 8: guy of course, challenges the mom and what was Rebecca

1430
01:20:40,840 --> 01:20:42,360
Speaker 8: Ferguson Chalded.

1431
01:20:43,520 --> 01:20:43,920
Speaker 2: Is the lady.

1432
01:20:44,120 --> 01:20:46,240
Speaker 8: I don't know anybody's name from the movie except for Paul.

1433
01:20:46,479 --> 01:20:48,280
Speaker 8: Except for Paul is the only one that I know.

1434
01:20:48,320 --> 01:20:50,240
Speaker 8: Because they said it one hundred times, I get I

1435
01:20:50,280 --> 01:20:57,080
Speaker 8: get it. So they like Rebecca Ferguson defeats Javier Bardin

1436
01:20:57,840 --> 01:21:00,400
Speaker 8: and like, she's apparently the leader. Now I want to

1437
01:21:00,479 --> 01:21:03,160
Speaker 8: challenge her. Oh, who's gonna fight for you? Who's your king?

1438
01:21:03,240 --> 01:21:05,080
Speaker 8: And then Paul stepped forward and I was like, let's

1439
01:21:05,120 --> 01:21:08,840
Speaker 8: fucking go. Come on, Timothy Shall, let's go. And then

1440
01:21:08,880 --> 01:21:11,639
Speaker 8: they do that whole fight scene and he keeps beating

1441
01:21:11,640 --> 01:21:13,920
Speaker 8: the guy and like putting the blade up to his neck,

1442
01:21:14,360 --> 01:21:16,880
Speaker 8: but he won't cut him and I never won't do it.

1443
01:21:16,920 --> 01:21:19,160
Speaker 2: I've never seen that before. And then the.

1444
01:21:19,800 --> 01:21:22,360
Speaker 8: Guys like is he toying with them? And she says

1445
01:21:23,439 --> 01:21:24,960
Speaker 8: he's never killed a man before.

1446
01:21:25,720 --> 01:21:30,759
Speaker 1: And then that was that was really felt so cool.

1447
01:21:31,360 --> 01:21:34,080
Speaker 1: That felt like really, I mean, that's the thing in

1448
01:21:34,120 --> 01:21:38,080
Speaker 1: the books, but on the screen it was like, oh shit,

1449
01:21:38,840 --> 01:21:42,040
Speaker 1: kill this. Yeah, yeah, yeah, everybody expects me to and

1450
01:21:42,080 --> 01:21:43,400
Speaker 1: they're all just gonna watch.

1451
01:21:43,920 --> 01:21:46,639
Speaker 8: That's I think what makes this movie so much fun

1452
01:21:46,680 --> 01:21:48,840
Speaker 8: to watch is because you have like all of the

1453
01:21:49,200 --> 01:21:52,720
Speaker 8: like giant spectacle of the situation is one thing, but

1454
01:21:52,920 --> 01:21:55,640
Speaker 8: in that moment, the one little moment, you felt the

1455
01:21:55,720 --> 01:21:59,439
Speaker 8: weight of this kid having to kill another human.

1456
01:22:00,120 --> 01:22:02,639
Speaker 2: When she says that line, she gives a great look

1457
01:22:02,680 --> 01:22:05,160
Speaker 2: on her face. He gets knocked down, and then he

1458
01:22:05,240 --> 01:22:07,040
Speaker 2: stands up and he's like a little bloodied on his

1459
01:22:07,080 --> 01:22:08,000
Speaker 2: nose or whatever.

1460
01:22:08,360 --> 01:22:10,840
Speaker 8: He stands up and then the fucking chant comes on

1461
01:22:10,960 --> 01:22:13,400
Speaker 8: in the background and you're like, Oh, he's gonna do it,

1462
01:22:13,520 --> 01:22:15,560
Speaker 8: He's gonna and then sure enough, Oh my god, it

1463
01:22:16,080 --> 01:22:17,120
Speaker 8: was so much fun to watch.

1464
01:22:17,320 --> 01:22:20,839
Speaker 2: It was incredible. I want to watch it again. I've

1465
01:22:20,880 --> 01:22:22,599
Speaker 2: watched it several times. It holds up.

1466
01:22:22,880 --> 01:22:26,000
Speaker 1: I've really enjoyed it. Shay, I would like to now,

1467
01:22:26,400 --> 01:22:29,360
Speaker 1: in honor of Oscar Isaac being in this movie. Yes,

1468
01:22:30,479 --> 01:22:36,160
Speaker 1: I would like to revitalize, resuscitate, and rejuvenate and bring

1469
01:22:36,240 --> 01:22:41,040
Speaker 1: back to life a segment we did on our podcast

1470
01:22:41,080 --> 01:22:44,880
Speaker 1: that Connect Yeah Baby, specifically a reference to the to

1471
01:22:44,960 --> 01:22:48,200
Speaker 1: the episode I Thought This Computer was My Friend, in

1472
01:22:48,240 --> 01:22:52,759
Speaker 1: which we talked about the movies Upgrade and Ex Machina, starring,

1473
01:22:52,800 --> 01:22:56,400
Speaker 1: of course, Oscar Isaac in a role that is much

1474
01:22:56,439 --> 01:23:01,080
Speaker 1: remembered for the incredible dance that unleashes in the middle

1475
01:23:01,120 --> 01:23:03,559
Speaker 1: of the movie. And so I'd like to bring back

1476
01:23:03,600 --> 01:23:06,240
Speaker 1: our segment the cafeteria Table, in which we would take

1477
01:23:07,400 --> 01:23:10,400
Speaker 1: a person from the movies that we selected to sit

1478
01:23:10,439 --> 01:23:13,400
Speaker 1: at the table and who would then be joined by

1479
01:23:13,479 --> 01:23:17,920
Speaker 1: people from movies that shared the theme that we had

1480
01:23:18,040 --> 01:23:21,160
Speaker 1: our theme in this case for our cafeteria table will

1481
01:23:21,160 --> 01:23:27,320
Speaker 1: be hot Dads. Yes, Oscar Isaac, Yes, if he's your dad,

1482
01:23:27,880 --> 01:23:30,760
Speaker 1: and Rebecca Ferguson is your mom, You're like, I get it,

1483
01:23:31,280 --> 01:23:35,040
Speaker 1: my parents are hot. Every time your friends would come over,

1484
01:23:35,080 --> 01:23:38,160
Speaker 1: they'd be like, man, your dad is like, what's going on?

1485
01:23:38,320 --> 01:23:42,640
Speaker 2: Dude? Like your parents? Why does your dad look like that?

1486
01:23:43,880 --> 01:23:46,839
Speaker 1: Why does your dad look Listen, if anything ever happens

1487
01:23:46,880 --> 01:23:50,639
Speaker 1: with your dad and Lady Jessica, let me know, because

1488
01:23:51,320 --> 01:23:54,800
Speaker 1: what's going on. So Oscar Isaac is gonna sit at

1489
01:23:55,360 --> 01:24:00,240
Speaker 1: both seats of the table, and we have some empty

1490
01:24:00,280 --> 01:24:03,040
Speaker 1: seats here that now need to be filled by people

1491
01:24:03,040 --> 01:24:06,640
Speaker 1: that we're gonna select. So it's two Oscar Isaacs and

1492
01:24:06,640 --> 01:24:09,240
Speaker 1: they're chatting along. They're they're being very charming to each other,

1493
01:24:09,360 --> 01:24:11,599
Speaker 1: sitting at the table, and we've got these empty seats

1494
01:24:12,000 --> 01:24:15,559
Speaker 1: that we are now going to fill, two empty seats each. Shaye,

1495
01:24:15,600 --> 01:24:17,720
Speaker 1: would you like to go first? Who is sitting at

1496
01:24:17,760 --> 01:24:20,280
Speaker 1: your table the hot dad table with Oscars?

1497
01:24:20,479 --> 01:24:20,720
Speaker 2: Is this?

1498
01:24:20,840 --> 01:24:20,960
Speaker 7: So?

1499
01:24:21,040 --> 01:24:24,000
Speaker 8: This is Oscar Isaac from Dune and Oscar Isaac from

1500
01:24:24,080 --> 01:24:27,200
Speaker 8: Ex Makina. They're just hanging out, Okay, they're just talking yeah,

1501
01:24:27,200 --> 01:24:29,000
Speaker 8: they're just hanging okay, because he was the father of

1502
01:24:29,040 --> 01:24:32,519
Speaker 8: the robots, so there, yes, okay, all right, well then

1503
01:24:32,560 --> 01:24:35,120
Speaker 8: in that case, so I have two seats to feel

1504
01:24:35,160 --> 01:24:36,240
Speaker 8: and there's a bunch of them.

1505
01:24:36,280 --> 01:24:39,320
Speaker 2: Oh man, so many hot dads, so many hot das.

1506
01:24:40,840 --> 01:24:44,760
Speaker 8: Underrated one Jake Gillenhall and South Paul not that great one,

1507
01:24:44,840 --> 01:24:46,719
Speaker 8: not not that great of a movie, but you're smoking

1508
01:24:46,800 --> 01:24:51,040
Speaker 8: hot in it. Edward James almost and Selena very that's

1509
01:24:51,080 --> 01:24:55,080
Speaker 8: a good one, very sexy, like dad energy. I need

1510
01:24:55,080 --> 01:24:57,760
Speaker 8: a can't miss That's what I need. I'm gonna start

1511
01:24:57,800 --> 01:25:00,120
Speaker 8: with let's get what's the I'm gonna I'm gonna I'm

1512
01:25:00,160 --> 01:25:02,760
Speaker 8: gonna start with somebody who. You don't think of this

1513
01:25:02,840 --> 01:25:05,280
Speaker 8: person as a dad in your head, you forget that

1514
01:25:05,360 --> 01:25:09,360
Speaker 8: he's a dad. You forget as soon as the scene

1515
01:25:09,400 --> 01:25:12,360
Speaker 8: is over with him and his son, you forget. But

1516
01:25:13,280 --> 01:25:19,080
Speaker 8: Denzel Washington and Training Day Alonzo, him and Eva Mendez

1517
01:25:19,120 --> 01:25:22,000
Speaker 8: have a kid together. But I think he has like

1518
01:25:22,040 --> 01:25:26,679
Speaker 8: another family somewhere. I assume he does, yet they imply it.

1519
01:25:26,600 --> 01:25:27,840
Speaker 2: In the movie.

1520
01:25:28,560 --> 01:25:32,320
Speaker 8: He not a great dad, not a great and awful dad,

1521
01:25:32,600 --> 01:25:36,600
Speaker 8: miserable dad. We're gonna have a gunfight We're gonna have

1522
01:25:36,640 --> 01:25:39,640
Speaker 8: a shootout, a shotgun shootout with my kid hiding in

1523
01:25:39,720 --> 01:25:42,000
Speaker 8: a hall closet like that kind of dad. Not a

1524
01:25:42,040 --> 01:25:44,599
Speaker 8: great dad, but a hot dad, a dad that could

1525
01:25:44,680 --> 01:25:47,439
Speaker 8: sit down at a table with Oscar Isaac and Dune

1526
01:25:47,479 --> 01:25:50,640
Speaker 8: and Oscar Isaac and x Makina and not be completely

1527
01:25:50,680 --> 01:25:54,080
Speaker 8: blown out of the water. That's that's my pick right here.

1528
01:25:54,080 --> 01:25:54,880
Speaker 8: That's what I'm going with.

1529
01:25:55,400 --> 01:25:57,600
Speaker 1: That's a great one, Thank you. I also needed a

1530
01:25:57,680 --> 01:26:03,520
Speaker 1: can't miss I was thinking, thinking, thinking, I considered Antonio

1531
01:26:03,520 --> 01:26:07,599
Speaker 1: Banderis from Spy Kids. Yeah, good one, which was I think,

1532
01:26:07,720 --> 01:26:10,880
Speaker 1: you know, he can't go wrong there. But I felt like,

1533
01:26:11,040 --> 01:26:13,920
Speaker 1: let's do something that's a little more recent, so I

1534
01:26:14,000 --> 01:26:17,320
Speaker 1: went with Winston Duke from US.

1535
01:26:17,720 --> 01:26:18,479
Speaker 2: Nice pick.

1536
01:26:18,600 --> 01:26:23,799
Speaker 1: Winston Duke n Black Panther and US the best thighs

1537
01:26:23,800 --> 01:26:29,920
Speaker 1: in the game six foot six. Also, so it must

1538
01:26:29,920 --> 01:26:32,599
Speaker 1: be great having like a big, strong dad who could

1539
01:26:32,680 --> 01:26:34,799
Speaker 1: just like carry you around. So I'm gonna say Winston

1540
01:26:34,960 --> 01:26:40,920
Speaker 1: Duke from the twenty nineteen existential horror film US. He

1541
01:26:41,080 --> 01:26:46,200
Speaker 1: is a fantastic and protective and scary when he needs

1542
01:26:46,240 --> 01:26:47,840
Speaker 1: to be dad in that movie.

1543
01:26:47,960 --> 01:26:50,360
Speaker 2: Winston Duke Gabe Wilson from us.

1544
01:26:50,400 --> 01:26:52,920
Speaker 8: He was only scary in that movie as the scary

1545
01:26:53,000 --> 01:26:57,040
Speaker 8: version of himself, like the normal dad version was completely outgunned,

1546
01:26:57,240 --> 01:26:59,519
Speaker 8: just like, this is not it's not gonna work. Got

1547
01:26:59,520 --> 01:27:01,719
Speaker 8: great for you, sir, It is not all right. Here's

1548
01:27:01,760 --> 01:27:03,600
Speaker 8: my next pick my other seat that I'm going to

1549
01:27:03,640 --> 01:27:06,200
Speaker 8: fill it in. And again, not a great dad in

1550
01:27:06,240 --> 01:27:10,280
Speaker 8: the movie. Kind of a dick, super super not great

1551
01:27:10,360 --> 01:27:16,160
Speaker 8: dad in a movie, but absolutely unquestionably this guy. When

1552
01:27:16,200 --> 01:27:18,000
Speaker 8: he goes to the park with his kids or when

1553
01:27:18,000 --> 01:27:20,040
Speaker 8: he picks his kids up from school, all of the

1554
01:27:20,120 --> 01:27:23,160
Speaker 8: moms notice, everybody notices. They're like, oh shit, he's coming.

1555
01:27:23,240 --> 01:27:25,519
Speaker 8: Oh he's here, he's here. Did you see him? Brad

1556
01:27:25,560 --> 01:27:27,720
Speaker 8: Pitt and Tree of Life? Give me, give me Tree

1557
01:27:27,760 --> 01:27:30,479
Speaker 8: of Life. Brad Pitt, What a what a dick of

1558
01:27:30,479 --> 01:27:34,200
Speaker 8: a dad? But just smoking hot. You're that when you're

1559
01:27:34,200 --> 01:27:36,240
Speaker 8: that high, you can be that much of a jerk.

1560
01:27:36,320 --> 01:27:37,719
Speaker 8: I think that's Remember when.

1561
01:27:37,560 --> 01:27:40,479
Speaker 2: The dinosaur showed up in Tree of Life. I don't

1562
01:27:40,479 --> 01:27:42,120
Speaker 2: know what was going on.

1563
01:27:42,320 --> 01:27:52,840
Speaker 9: Were you like, what, no clue what the movie is about?

1564
01:27:53,640 --> 01:27:55,840
Speaker 2: I did not get what that was. This is this

1565
01:27:55,920 --> 01:27:56,759
Speaker 2: is all I remember.

1566
01:27:57,640 --> 01:27:59,960
Speaker 8: I had at the time, taken to teaching my son

1567
01:28:00,200 --> 01:28:03,320
Speaker 8: how to box. We bought the gloves, we bought the mits.

1568
01:28:03,760 --> 01:28:06,200
Speaker 8: We're doing the drills in the front yard or like,

1569
01:28:06,200 --> 01:28:07,760
Speaker 8: at the time, we lived in a little townhouse, so

1570
01:28:07,800 --> 01:28:10,280
Speaker 8: in the front of our townhouse, we're doing it. And

1571
01:28:11,080 --> 01:28:13,760
Speaker 8: I was like, being a little more aggressive than I

1572
01:28:13,800 --> 01:28:15,880
Speaker 8: needed to be. I was a young dad. I thought

1573
01:28:15,880 --> 01:28:18,240
Speaker 8: I needed to be like tough, tough dad. No, like,

1574
01:28:18,240 --> 01:28:19,960
Speaker 8: this is how you do it, like being a jerk

1575
01:28:19,960 --> 01:28:22,439
Speaker 8: of a dad. And then we watched Tree of Life

1576
01:28:22,439 --> 01:28:24,240
Speaker 8: and they have the exact same scene that they're in

1577
01:28:24,280 --> 01:28:26,080
Speaker 8: the front yard, and I was like, is that what

1578
01:28:26,120 --> 01:28:28,360
Speaker 8: I fucking Is that what I looked like, Oh my god,

1579
01:28:29,000 --> 01:28:31,639
Speaker 8: oh my god, I'm so sorry. Like I'm so sorry.

1580
01:28:31,680 --> 01:28:35,639
Speaker 8: I apologize to my sons right now, never again, never again.

1581
01:28:35,760 --> 01:28:38,759
Speaker 8: But smoking hot dad, that's mine?

1582
01:28:38,840 --> 01:28:41,880
Speaker 2: Great, great, great pick again.

1583
01:28:41,920 --> 01:28:43,920
Speaker 1: It would be really distracting when your friends came over

1584
01:28:43,960 --> 01:28:46,840
Speaker 1: and your dad was Brad pitt my pick I was.

1585
01:28:46,880 --> 01:28:51,799
Speaker 1: I considered, so I considered Krasinski in a quiet place,

1586
01:28:52,240 --> 01:28:56,240
Speaker 1: although again I would argue not a great dad. It

1587
01:28:56,240 --> 01:28:59,040
Speaker 1: should not take until your kids are like eleven years

1588
01:28:59,040 --> 01:29:01,240
Speaker 1: old before you tell them, hey, the things can't hear

1589
01:29:01,280 --> 01:29:04,120
Speaker 1: you in the in the Waterfall, like, I think that

1590
01:29:04,120 --> 01:29:07,280
Speaker 1: that's important information to share earlier on.

1591
01:29:08,600 --> 01:29:11,280
Speaker 2: Special special note.

1592
01:29:10,880 --> 01:29:13,600
Speaker 1: Of respect from me for all the different ways that

1593
01:29:13,640 --> 01:29:19,040
Speaker 1: Krasinski puts very creative, he doesn't like, he doesn't like,

1594
01:29:19,120 --> 01:29:20,880
Speaker 1: eight different ways to tell you.

1595
01:29:21,680 --> 01:29:24,240
Speaker 2: I also considered Paul Rudd from ant Man. I thought

1596
01:29:24,240 --> 01:29:26,960
Speaker 2: about Paul very handsome, very handsome.

1597
01:29:27,000 --> 01:29:33,000
Speaker 1: Very handsome guy, uh ageless wonder, Paul Rudd super charming,

1598
01:29:33,040 --> 01:29:38,200
Speaker 1: super fun. But I went with John cho from a

1599
01:29:38,760 --> 01:29:43,360
Speaker 1: movie super Hot Dad Searching Searching, which he's in which

1600
01:29:43,400 --> 01:29:48,120
Speaker 1: he is looking for his missing daughter. Of listen, if

1601
01:29:48,200 --> 01:29:51,639
Speaker 1: I'm missing, I want my dad to turn over every

1602
01:29:51,680 --> 01:29:55,400
Speaker 1: single rock to look in it, to cross every single river,

1603
01:29:55,920 --> 01:29:58,160
Speaker 1: to go into every single forest to look for me.

1604
01:29:58,280 --> 01:30:00,320
Speaker 1: And it would also be great if he was great

1605
01:30:00,360 --> 01:30:03,040
Speaker 1: looking guy that because I think that would help with

1606
01:30:03,120 --> 01:30:08,360
Speaker 1: the news coverage. Got that hot dad is on TV

1607
01:30:08,840 --> 01:30:12,200
Speaker 1: talking about where is his kid at? And John Show

1608
01:30:12,760 --> 01:30:17,479
Speaker 1: Superhan's a guy, super hot guy John Show in Searching.

1609
01:30:17,640 --> 01:30:19,960
Speaker 8: That's a great, great pick. I love that movie, like

1610
01:30:20,120 --> 01:30:22,720
Speaker 8: just I had a good one. I only recently saw it.

1611
01:30:22,720 --> 01:30:25,240
Speaker 8: It was really really really good. I like our picks.

1612
01:30:25,439 --> 01:30:28,280
Speaker 1: Now it's I like our I will say now he

1613
01:30:28,560 --> 01:30:33,960
Speaker 1: is David in Searching played by John Show is also

1614
01:30:34,080 --> 01:30:36,720
Speaker 1: maybe not the best dad, but he's working on it.

1615
01:30:36,960 --> 01:30:40,880
Speaker 1: He's thinking about it like he's he he's admitting that

1616
01:30:41,040 --> 01:30:43,439
Speaker 1: maybe I wasn't the best dad in certain points of view,

1617
01:30:43,479 --> 01:30:47,800
Speaker 1: so I would argue maybe maybe the best actual No,

1618
01:30:48,160 --> 01:30:49,840
Speaker 1: you know what. Gabe Wilson is also very good, but

1619
01:30:49,920 --> 01:30:53,120
Speaker 1: like one of the better fathers, certainly when compared to

1620
01:30:54,600 --> 01:30:57,080
Speaker 1: Brad Pittage as Mister a Bride and Tree of Life

1621
01:30:57,080 --> 01:30:58,519
Speaker 1: and Alonzo from Training Day.

1622
01:30:58,840 --> 01:31:00,960
Speaker 2: That is our cafeteria table.

1623
01:31:01,120 --> 01:31:04,599
Speaker 1: It is Oscar Isaac as du Glido from Doune, Oscar

1624
01:31:04,680 --> 01:31:07,200
Speaker 1: Isaac from X Market and the Father.

1625
01:31:07,080 --> 01:31:07,960
Speaker 2: Of the Robots.

1626
01:31:09,720 --> 01:31:14,960
Speaker 1: Shay selected Alonso played by Denzel Washington in Training Day,

1627
01:31:15,120 --> 01:31:16,880
Speaker 1: not a great dad, but certainly a hot dad. He

1628
01:31:17,000 --> 01:31:21,240
Speaker 1: selected mister O'Brien Brad pitt in Tree of Life going

1629
01:31:21,320 --> 01:31:23,719
Speaker 1: a little too hard in the pate with the boxing

1630
01:31:23,800 --> 01:31:29,519
Speaker 1: lessons as a dinosaur mysteriously looks on. I selected Winston

1631
01:31:29,600 --> 01:31:33,760
Speaker 1: Duke as Gabe Wilson from US A Wonderful father when

1632
01:31:33,800 --> 01:31:36,640
Speaker 1: he's not the evil version. And I selected jon Cho

1633
01:31:36,840 --> 01:31:40,240
Speaker 1: as David Kim in Searching looking for his missing daughter

1634
01:31:40,360 --> 01:31:43,000
Speaker 1: see Searching If you can. It's a great film.

1635
01:31:43,400 --> 01:31:45,439
Speaker 2: Shay. I love our picks. I love our picks too,

1636
01:31:45,680 --> 01:31:47,320
Speaker 2: Shay one more time.

1637
01:31:47,400 --> 01:31:51,280
Speaker 1: Yes, tell the folks about your latest book and why

1638
01:31:51,320 --> 01:31:52,200
Speaker 1: they should buy.

1639
01:31:52,000 --> 01:31:55,280
Speaker 8: It hip hop in other things wherever you buy stores.

1640
01:31:55,360 --> 01:31:59,879
Speaker 8: It has been personally endorsed by Jake, Jillenhall, Denzel Washington,

1641
01:32:00,600 --> 01:32:04,800
Speaker 8: Edward James, Almost, Laurence Fishburn, Brad Pitt's, Oscar, Isaac, every

1642
01:32:04,880 --> 01:32:07,200
Speaker 8: dad we've talked about here. They all posted about it

1643
01:32:07,240 --> 01:32:09,479
Speaker 8: on their Instagram or Twitter. I think they might have

1644
01:32:09,600 --> 01:32:11,400
Speaker 8: deleted it already, or it was like a story. You

1645
01:32:11,479 --> 01:32:14,000
Speaker 8: might have missed it, but it was there. I promise

1646
01:32:14,160 --> 01:32:14,760
Speaker 8: it was there.

1647
01:32:15,439 --> 01:32:17,840
Speaker 1: They thought, Yeah, they had to delete it and take

1648
01:32:17,880 --> 01:32:20,000
Speaker 1: it down because it was almost too much.

1649
01:32:19,840 --> 01:32:21,840
Speaker 8: Praise people were getting. Yeah, they were saying too much

1650
01:32:21,960 --> 01:32:22,519
Speaker 8: nice stuff.

1651
01:32:22,920 --> 01:32:25,280
Speaker 1: I've heard it said that it is the greatest book

1652
01:32:25,320 --> 01:32:27,880
Speaker 1: of all time and that the art by the great

1653
01:32:27,960 --> 01:32:30,639
Speaker 1: art tour tourist is the greatest art that has ever

1654
01:32:30,720 --> 01:32:32,439
Speaker 1: been put to a book of all time.

1655
01:32:32,600 --> 01:32:35,320
Speaker 8: What a lot of people have said, like scientists, are

1656
01:32:35,360 --> 01:32:38,280
Speaker 8: that if enough people buy the book and open it,

1657
01:32:38,280 --> 01:32:42,200
Speaker 8: it will release neuro whatever's into the air that will

1658
01:32:42,200 --> 01:32:45,280
Speaker 8: reverse the climate change. It'll fix it.

1659
01:32:45,479 --> 01:32:49,360
Speaker 1: I really hope that people is only to stop climate

1660
01:32:49,479 --> 01:32:53,719
Speaker 1: change and preserve life on Earth. I hope they buy

1661
01:32:53,920 --> 01:32:57,360
Speaker 1: the book in large numbers, the physical version, the kindle version.

1662
01:32:57,600 --> 01:33:00,559
Speaker 1: The e book does not release the gases, the neuro

1663
01:33:00,680 --> 01:33:03,880
Speaker 1: stuff that shades us the environment, but the physical book does.

1664
01:33:04,200 --> 01:33:07,400
Speaker 1: Folks buy it wherever you buy books. Shay, thank you

1665
01:33:07,479 --> 01:33:10,120
Speaker 1: so much for joining us. All right later, that's it

1666
01:33:10,160 --> 01:33:13,960
Speaker 1: for the endgame the revamped Cafeteria table. Let us know

1667
01:33:14,000 --> 01:33:17,160
Speaker 1: if you have any additions to the table. Hit us

1668
01:33:17,200 --> 01:33:22,479
Speaker 1: at hashtag XRV endgame. That's XRV endgame. Big thank you

1669
01:33:22,520 --> 01:33:25,760
Speaker 1: to Chase Serrano, Jason Goldman, and h for joining us

1670
01:33:25,760 --> 01:33:29,000
Speaker 1: today on x ray Vision. Please join us each week

1671
01:33:29,200 --> 01:33:31,759
Speaker 1: on Wednesdays for your weekly dose of the deepest dives.

1672
01:33:31,960 --> 01:33:34,879
Speaker 1: Next week, we'll be doing a comics Corner where myself

1673
01:33:34,880 --> 01:33:36,800
Speaker 1: and Rosie Knight will be talking about some of the

1674
01:33:36,880 --> 01:33:39,240
Speaker 1: comics that we really like that are going on right now,

1675
01:33:39,320 --> 01:33:40,520
Speaker 1: and maybe some recommendations.

1676
01:33:41,200 --> 01:33:43,320
Speaker 2: If you want to learn more about what we explore on.

1677
01:33:43,280 --> 01:33:46,000
Speaker 1: Each episode, check out our listener's guide to all things

1678
01:33:46,080 --> 01:33:48,200
Speaker 1: x ray Vision in the show notes on our website.

1679
01:33:48,520 --> 01:33:50,680
Speaker 1: That just took a very deep hit of Spice and

1680
01:33:50,720 --> 01:33:58,040
Speaker 1: foresaw an increase in five star ratings US all ratings.

1681
01:33:57,000 --> 01:34:00,160
Speaker 2: Please add them wherever you get your podcasts. Goodbye, Hi.

1682
01:34:06,840 --> 01:34:09,200
Speaker 1: X ray Vision is a Crooked Media production. The show

1683
01:34:09,240 --> 01:34:11,559
Speaker 1: is produced by Chris Lord and Saul Rubin. The show

1684
01:34:11,640 --> 01:34:14,879
Speaker 1: is executive produced by me Jason Caccepcio and Sandy Gerard.

1685
01:34:15,120 --> 01:34:18,519
Speaker 1: Caroline Reston and Carlton Gillespie are consulting producers and are

1686
01:34:18,640 --> 01:34:21,320
Speaker 1: editing and sound design is by Sarah Gibalaska and the

1687
01:34:21,360 --> 01:34:24,360
Speaker 1: Folks at Chapter four. Big thanks to Brian Vasquez for

1688
01:34:24,400 --> 01:34:25,599
Speaker 1: our theme music.