1 00:00:00,320 --> 00:00:02,800 Speaker 1: There's a brand new website causing a lot of trouble 2 00:00:02,880 --> 00:00:05,200 Speaker 1: for people with something to hide? Have you ever had 3 00:00:05,200 --> 00:00:08,520 Speaker 1: a bad feeling about somebody, suspect that a partner of cheating, 4 00:00:09,119 --> 00:00:12,760 Speaker 1: worried about your online reputation? If you answer yes to 5 00:00:12,840 --> 00:00:16,840 Speaker 1: any of those questions, you may need truth Finder. Truth 6 00:00:16,880 --> 00:00:24,200 Speaker 1: Finder may reveal court records, bankruptcies, contact information, social dating profiles, assets, 7 00:00:24,280 --> 00:00:26,960 Speaker 1: and a lot more. You get it all in one 8 00:00:27,120 --> 00:00:31,000 Speaker 1: easy to read report. Why work out thousands of dollars 9 00:00:31,040 --> 00:00:33,519 Speaker 1: to a private eye when you can do the job yourself. 10 00:00:33,880 --> 00:00:37,040 Speaker 1: Go to truth finder dot com, slash Nancy and enter 11 00:00:37,200 --> 00:00:47,280 Speaker 1: any name to get started. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace 12 00:00:47,360 --> 00:00:54,040 Speaker 1: on Sirius x M Triumph Channel one thirty two. It 13 00:00:54,280 --> 00:01:00,440 Speaker 1: never ends with Jodi Arius. That's right, one lover after 14 00:01:00,480 --> 00:01:03,640 Speaker 1: the next, not judging. Okay, if it's not a felony, 15 00:01:03,880 --> 00:01:06,360 Speaker 1: I don't care. Unless it's got yellow crime scene tape 16 00:01:06,360 --> 00:01:09,560 Speaker 1: around it, I'm not interested. This is Crime Stories with 17 00:01:09,640 --> 00:01:12,360 Speaker 1: Nancy Grace. Thank you for being with us. But what 18 00:01:12,440 --> 00:01:16,039 Speaker 1: I am interested in is when you have marathon sex 19 00:01:16,120 --> 00:01:18,399 Speaker 1: with your lover all afternoon, then you stab him and 20 00:01:18,400 --> 00:01:21,800 Speaker 1: shoot him dead and leave him to decompose in the shower. Well, 21 00:01:21,840 --> 00:01:25,400 Speaker 1: it's not over with Jodi Arius right now, because she's 22 00:01:25,440 --> 00:01:29,560 Speaker 1: so special in her own head. She is demanding something 23 00:01:29,600 --> 00:01:32,520 Speaker 1: that's very unusual, and she's demanding it from a court 24 00:01:32,520 --> 00:01:36,760 Speaker 1: of law. She is insisting that her case is so 25 00:01:36,800 --> 00:01:42,080 Speaker 1: special and so volatile that her appeal process must be 26 00:01:42,240 --> 00:01:47,000 Speaker 1: kept sealed, in other words, secret. After seeing all those 27 00:01:47,080 --> 00:01:49,280 Speaker 1: nudy photos of her, I don't know what secrets there 28 00:01:49,320 --> 00:01:52,320 Speaker 1: are left. But before I jump into that, I've got 29 00:01:52,360 --> 00:01:55,920 Speaker 1: a guest with me, along with Ashley Wilcott, Dr. Bethany Marshall, 30 00:01:56,240 --> 00:01:59,920 Speaker 1: and Alexis terres Chuck from Radar Online dot com. It's 31 00:02:00,000 --> 00:02:05,840 Speaker 1: superstar defense attorney Kirk Nurmi, the Jodi Arias defense lawyer 32 00:02:05,920 --> 00:02:10,480 Speaker 1: and author of a bestseller, Trapped with ms Arius. You 33 00:02:10,480 --> 00:02:13,760 Speaker 1: can find it on Amazon dot com. Kurt Nermy, I'll 34 00:02:13,800 --> 00:02:17,120 Speaker 1: save you your breath of saying you cannot comment on 35 00:02:17,160 --> 00:02:19,840 Speaker 1: her appeals process because that would be a conflict of 36 00:02:20,080 --> 00:02:23,000 Speaker 1: ethical interest for you, and I respect that. I want 37 00:02:23,000 --> 00:02:25,720 Speaker 1: to talk to you about Jodi Arius. And this is 38 00:02:25,760 --> 00:02:28,160 Speaker 1: not a coffee colatch where I want to drag somebody down. 39 00:02:28,240 --> 00:02:31,280 Speaker 1: I want the truth about what it was like. And 40 00:02:31,320 --> 00:02:33,480 Speaker 1: I've read your book Trapped with miss Arius, but I 41 00:02:33,480 --> 00:02:36,160 Speaker 1: want to hear it from your own math, in your 42 00:02:36,160 --> 00:02:40,239 Speaker 1: own words. Can you at least say whether you're surprised 43 00:02:40,320 --> 00:02:43,920 Speaker 1: about her filing demanding secrecy. Well, it's surprising in the 44 00:02:44,040 --> 00:02:47,919 Speaker 1: sense that, as you pointed out earlier, it's so unusual. 45 00:02:48,600 --> 00:02:52,040 Speaker 1: But as it relates to miss Arius, I got to 46 00:02:52,080 --> 00:02:55,560 Speaker 1: the point, I guess where nothing surprises me. So this 47 00:02:55,680 --> 00:02:58,120 Speaker 1: does not come as a huge shock to me, Alex, 48 00:02:58,120 --> 00:03:01,000 Speaker 1: says Dr Bethany Ashley. You as may have been on 49 00:03:01,680 --> 00:03:05,480 Speaker 1: the TV waves with me the night that Jodi Aris 50 00:03:05,480 --> 00:03:10,799 Speaker 1: was giving yet another jailhouse interview and Kirk NARMI she 51 00:03:11,080 --> 00:03:14,160 Speaker 1: was caught on camera or maybe she planned it. I 52 00:03:14,200 --> 00:03:17,200 Speaker 1: don't know anymore what's real and what's not real with Arias. 53 00:03:17,280 --> 00:03:22,200 Speaker 1: But she was putting on makeup and powder and having 54 00:03:22,200 --> 00:03:25,079 Speaker 1: her hair adjusted, and you know, there's really no doubt 55 00:03:25,120 --> 00:03:28,799 Speaker 1: about it. Many people would think she's beautiful. But the 56 00:03:28,840 --> 00:03:30,600 Speaker 1: same way I look at Scott Peterson, I don't find 57 00:03:30,680 --> 00:03:33,160 Speaker 1: him a trick at all. I don't find her beautiful. 58 00:03:33,600 --> 00:03:36,320 Speaker 1: I just see her as a cold blooded killer. And 59 00:03:36,400 --> 00:03:38,320 Speaker 1: I was thinking, if she was putting that powder on 60 00:03:38,360 --> 00:03:41,520 Speaker 1: her nose, about you Kirk n Army. I remember it distinctly, thinking, 61 00:03:41,720 --> 00:03:46,680 Speaker 1: I bet he is having a fit right now, because 62 00:03:46,720 --> 00:03:49,880 Speaker 1: the last thing you want your client to do is 63 00:03:49,960 --> 00:03:54,200 Speaker 1: talk to the cameras, even post verdict, because it could 64 00:03:54,200 --> 00:03:56,560 Speaker 1: mess up your appeal. What you want to tell the 65 00:03:56,560 --> 00:04:00,360 Speaker 1: appellate court, this and this and this could be late 66 00:04:01,320 --> 00:04:05,560 Speaker 1: torpedoed in an interview. Well, there's no doubt about that. 67 00:04:05,640 --> 00:04:08,600 Speaker 1: And remember Nancy, she took special care. Not only did 68 00:04:08,640 --> 00:04:11,400 Speaker 1: she not wait till the verdict went down, but remember 69 00:04:11,440 --> 00:04:14,280 Speaker 1: she did interviews between the verdict and the sentence, thing 70 00:04:14,640 --> 00:04:17,560 Speaker 1: which she made a point to attack me and make 71 00:04:17,640 --> 00:04:21,000 Speaker 1: the false claim that I was the one who wanted 72 00:04:21,040 --> 00:04:25,080 Speaker 1: to pursue all these allegations against her victim, not her. 73 00:04:25,720 --> 00:04:28,040 Speaker 1: She lied, she made sure she had time to do 74 00:04:28,080 --> 00:04:31,000 Speaker 1: it before she was sent to DC, who was very 75 00:04:31,160 --> 00:04:35,680 Speaker 1: calculated against me, you know, Kirk, A sign of a 76 00:04:35,720 --> 00:04:39,320 Speaker 1: calculated attack on you after you and the rest of 77 00:04:39,360 --> 00:04:44,239 Speaker 1: your team had sat there and given your blood, sweat 78 00:04:44,240 --> 00:04:48,320 Speaker 1: and tears during that trial, just taken so much abuse, 79 00:04:48,640 --> 00:04:52,160 Speaker 1: not from just Arias but really everyone the whole public 80 00:04:52,360 --> 00:04:58,160 Speaker 1: was against you, and to this day you believe it contributed. 81 00:04:58,200 --> 00:05:00,679 Speaker 1: Do you get in cancer? You know that's what liignant means. 82 00:05:00,960 --> 00:05:06,120 Speaker 1: Maw worry bad that that's what malignant means. Do you 83 00:05:06,200 --> 00:05:09,880 Speaker 1: really believe that, Kirk? I do. I mean, obviously there's 84 00:05:09,920 --> 00:05:12,160 Speaker 1: no way to prove it scientifically, but in my heart, 85 00:05:12,240 --> 00:05:15,919 Speaker 1: keep in mind I was assigned ms Arius's case in 86 00:05:16,000 --> 00:05:20,480 Speaker 1: two thousand nine. Thus she was a part of my life, 87 00:05:21,600 --> 00:05:25,360 Speaker 1: against my wishes, from probably two thousand and ten to 88 00:05:25,520 --> 00:05:30,159 Speaker 1: two thousand fifteen. And everything that went along with defending her, 89 00:05:30,240 --> 00:05:33,800 Speaker 1: having her attack me and interviews things of that nature 90 00:05:34,440 --> 00:05:38,719 Speaker 1: UM caused great concern to me about my safety and 91 00:05:38,760 --> 00:05:41,599 Speaker 1: that of my wife. Yes, I do. Over those years, 92 00:05:41,600 --> 00:05:45,120 Speaker 1: I believe that it eventually added up, and that's what 93 00:05:45,320 --> 00:05:49,960 Speaker 1: turned my healthy blood cells into cancers. Her trial turned 94 00:05:50,000 --> 00:05:56,000 Speaker 1: into an international Barnum and Bailey circus where Nurmi was, 95 00:05:56,400 --> 00:06:00,880 Speaker 1: against his will, elected ringmaster. I want to hear what 96 00:06:01,000 --> 00:06:03,479 Speaker 1: it was like. See I always saw her at a distance, 97 00:06:03,520 --> 00:06:06,560 Speaker 1: like looking at a tarantula in a glass box. I 98 00:06:06,680 --> 00:06:08,840 Speaker 1: was at a distance, of course, except for the time 99 00:06:08,920 --> 00:06:11,520 Speaker 1: she shot a bird at me in court. Um. But 100 00:06:11,720 --> 00:06:14,119 Speaker 1: needless to say, she wasn't the first and no doubt 101 00:06:14,200 --> 00:06:17,520 Speaker 1: won't be the last. But Kirk, what was it like 102 00:06:18,440 --> 00:06:21,920 Speaker 1: being with her. Why was there such a contentious relationship 103 00:06:21,960 --> 00:06:25,400 Speaker 1: between you two. Well, obviously a lot of that is privileged, 104 00:06:25,480 --> 00:06:29,000 Speaker 1: but UM, you know, my job, the way I look 105 00:06:29,040 --> 00:06:32,159 Speaker 1: at it anyway, is is a detachment. Um. I'm not 106 00:06:32,240 --> 00:06:35,200 Speaker 1: there to support what she did. I'm not there too. 107 00:06:35,400 --> 00:06:37,800 Speaker 1: I'm just there to help her, support her story. I'm 108 00:06:37,800 --> 00:06:41,719 Speaker 1: not there to be her friend. And UM, you know 109 00:06:41,839 --> 00:06:45,279 Speaker 1: that without saying too much, I think that speaks volumes. 110 00:06:45,320 --> 00:06:49,240 Speaker 1: I'm trying to I'm trying to interpret that. In your book, 111 00:06:49,360 --> 00:06:55,840 Speaker 1: Trapped with miss Arius, you touch on so many different topics. 112 00:06:56,160 --> 00:06:58,640 Speaker 1: What do you think was the biggest bombshell in your book? 113 00:06:59,800 --> 00:07:02,880 Speaker 1: I think so that probably the biggest bombshell was talking 114 00:07:02,880 --> 00:07:06,599 Speaker 1: about that attachment she had. Um, and this kind of 115 00:07:06,600 --> 00:07:09,560 Speaker 1: correlates to what I said earlier about her kind of 116 00:07:09,640 --> 00:07:12,000 Speaker 1: at some point in time viewing me as her boyfriend. 117 00:07:12,040 --> 00:07:15,200 Speaker 1: I was the most significant man in her life, and 118 00:07:15,920 --> 00:07:17,760 Speaker 1: I was there to do a job. I was not 119 00:07:17,800 --> 00:07:21,440 Speaker 1: there to be her friend or supporter in any way 120 00:07:21,480 --> 00:07:25,040 Speaker 1: other than to advocate her case in the courtroom. You know, 121 00:07:25,520 --> 00:07:30,559 Speaker 1: I've looked very much, very very often at your book 122 00:07:30,680 --> 00:07:34,560 Speaker 1: and what everyone thinks about it, and people have taken 123 00:07:34,560 --> 00:07:36,720 Speaker 1: your book and spun it and spun it and spun it. 124 00:07:36,720 --> 00:07:39,920 Speaker 1: In fact, there's one person that goes after having read 125 00:07:40,000 --> 00:07:43,320 Speaker 1: Kirk Normy's book. I only know what I have found 126 00:07:43,320 --> 00:07:47,680 Speaker 1: out afterwards, that Jody Aris was not there when Travis 127 00:07:47,760 --> 00:07:51,480 Speaker 1: was murdered, and she did not kill anyone and did 128 00:07:51,480 --> 00:07:54,360 Speaker 1: not murder Travis Alexander. She was the victim of a 129 00:07:54,400 --> 00:07:59,600 Speaker 1: false prosecution. Okay, wasn't part of her defense? Uh that 130 00:07:59,760 --> 00:08:02,280 Speaker 1: she was fighting for her own life at one point 131 00:08:02,480 --> 00:08:05,440 Speaker 1: and that another part of her defense was she was there, 132 00:08:05,480 --> 00:08:09,520 Speaker 1: but then Ninja Tid disguised warriors attacked them. I mean, 133 00:08:10,000 --> 00:08:13,640 Speaker 1: all of her defenses were that she was there. But 134 00:08:14,400 --> 00:08:16,560 Speaker 1: so what do you take? What do you make of 135 00:08:16,720 --> 00:08:20,480 Speaker 1: people spinning out what you have written? Well, look, I 136 00:08:20,480 --> 00:08:23,360 Speaker 1: suppose that's going to happen with anything that anybody says. 137 00:08:23,480 --> 00:08:27,160 Speaker 1: I mean, ultimately, there are there are facts, and the 138 00:08:27,160 --> 00:08:29,520 Speaker 1: facts are that Ms Arius, even when she got in 139 00:08:29,640 --> 00:08:32,800 Speaker 1: she testified, she sat down, she said, she defended herself. 140 00:08:33,160 --> 00:08:36,880 Speaker 1: We heard her sentencing say one of her last comments 141 00:08:37,040 --> 00:08:41,040 Speaker 1: in open court was that Mr Alexander was alive when 142 00:08:41,040 --> 00:08:44,800 Speaker 1: she split his throat. So there are going to be 143 00:08:44,880 --> 00:08:47,400 Speaker 1: people that are so detached from reality. That they just 144 00:08:47,480 --> 00:08:50,560 Speaker 1: don't believe that they have created another theory. I talked 145 00:08:50,600 --> 00:08:55,240 Speaker 1: in my book about her having a cult leader like personality, 146 00:08:55,720 --> 00:08:58,719 Speaker 1: and obviously there are people that are falling into that 147 00:08:59,559 --> 00:09:04,120 Speaker 1: and creating their own reality of their leader, as she 148 00:09:04,200 --> 00:09:08,000 Speaker 1: will caught found a child crime watch dot com. What 149 00:09:08,080 --> 00:09:11,280 Speaker 1: do you think of the revelations in Nurmi's book? Listen, 150 00:09:12,080 --> 00:09:16,440 Speaker 1: it fits what I thought based on watching the trial 151 00:09:16,640 --> 00:09:20,000 Speaker 1: and watching her interviews and watching her behaviors. I'm not 152 00:09:20,080 --> 00:09:23,240 Speaker 1: at all surprised to read about the revelations that he makes. 153 00:09:23,360 --> 00:09:26,280 Speaker 1: I regret it for him as the attorney and protecting 154 00:09:26,280 --> 00:09:29,240 Speaker 1: her constitutional rights. But listen, she wants to be in 155 00:09:29,240 --> 00:09:32,520 Speaker 1: the public eye. She wants to be everybody pay attention 156 00:09:32,559 --> 00:09:34,559 Speaker 1: to her, and I'm not at all surprised to hear 157 00:09:34,600 --> 00:09:36,800 Speaker 1: that she's lying and making stuff up. What about it 158 00:09:36,880 --> 00:09:40,360 Speaker 1: to you? Alexis Toreso, writer, online dot com reporter. We've 159 00:09:40,400 --> 00:09:44,920 Speaker 1: covered the case every single day. I think that Jody 160 00:09:44,960 --> 00:09:47,959 Speaker 1: is somebody who craves the attention. You know, she is 161 00:09:48,120 --> 00:09:51,520 Speaker 1: locked up behind our life in prison, and she has 162 00:09:51,559 --> 00:09:55,120 Speaker 1: a Twitter account that she has somebody run. She is 163 00:09:55,320 --> 00:09:58,120 Speaker 1: constantly in contact with people on the outside. She has 164 00:09:58,280 --> 00:10:02,880 Speaker 1: never let go of her celebrity status, and she has 165 00:10:03,080 --> 00:10:06,560 Speaker 1: instigated it. She continues to make sure that people know 166 00:10:06,640 --> 00:10:09,560 Speaker 1: exactly what she's doing and how she doing with her 167 00:10:09,679 --> 00:10:13,480 Speaker 1: own spin on things. And that's why we have spent 168 00:10:13,520 --> 00:10:16,679 Speaker 1: so much time. I personally spent time talking with the 169 00:10:16,720 --> 00:10:20,559 Speaker 1: prison I have requested records of hers and she hates 170 00:10:20,640 --> 00:10:23,520 Speaker 1: that because she is not in control of that narrative. 171 00:10:23,640 --> 00:10:29,720 Speaker 1: Dr Bethany Marshall. Dr Bethany Marshall l a psychoanalyst. Bethany, 172 00:10:29,880 --> 00:10:32,840 Speaker 1: take a listen to this excerpt from Nurmi's book. Quote. 173 00:10:33,400 --> 00:10:35,800 Speaker 1: To fully get a visual of what miss Arius did 174 00:10:35,840 --> 00:10:38,960 Speaker 1: to my brain, you would have to find some fecal matter, 175 00:10:39,920 --> 00:10:43,480 Speaker 1: throw it into the pan, add a chopped up dead rat, 176 00:10:43,720 --> 00:10:47,720 Speaker 1: and scrambled the whole mess up. Once completely cooked. This 177 00:10:47,840 --> 00:10:52,120 Speaker 1: concoction would then approximate the effect that miss Arius would 178 00:10:52,160 --> 00:10:56,920 Speaker 1: have on my brain. I think that's pretty clear, Bethany 179 00:10:57,480 --> 00:11:01,240 Speaker 1: was pretty clear. You know what I've heard when kirk 180 00:11:01,360 --> 00:11:04,440 Speaker 1: Nermie was talking is that I was thinking about the 181 00:11:04,480 --> 00:11:08,960 Speaker 1: fact that Shody Arias had sex or Travis Alexander all 182 00:11:09,160 --> 00:11:14,000 Speaker 1: day long before she stabbed him, slashed his throat and 183 00:11:14,240 --> 00:11:17,080 Speaker 1: shot him in the head. So she used sex to 184 00:11:17,120 --> 00:11:21,800 Speaker 1: have power over him and to she used seduction to 185 00:11:22,040 --> 00:11:24,440 Speaker 1: put him in a place where he was no longer 186 00:11:24,720 --> 00:11:28,720 Speaker 1: thinking okay. And I experienced this in clinical practice. Whenever 187 00:11:28,760 --> 00:11:32,200 Speaker 1: a patient is really really disturbed, they'll relate to me 188 00:11:32,240 --> 00:11:33,920 Speaker 1: in in a way or it's hard to put my 189 00:11:33,960 --> 00:11:37,480 Speaker 1: thoughts together or to think or to focus because they're 190 00:11:37,520 --> 00:11:40,400 Speaker 1: saying things that are designed to have me not have 191 00:11:40,440 --> 00:11:44,000 Speaker 1: an independent mind from them. So I think what happened 192 00:11:44,000 --> 00:11:47,560 Speaker 1: with Jody Arius and Mr Nermie, unfortunately, is she tried 193 00:11:47,640 --> 00:11:51,320 Speaker 1: to seduce him in order to keep him from thinking 194 00:11:51,440 --> 00:11:55,600 Speaker 1: clearly about how malicious and evil and homicidal she was. 195 00:11:56,200 --> 00:11:58,800 Speaker 1: And Kirk Nermie didn't buy it. He didn't fall into 196 00:11:58,800 --> 00:12:03,480 Speaker 1: the trap. He maintained his autonomy in his distance from her, 197 00:12:04,000 --> 00:12:06,400 Speaker 1: and because of that, she grew to hate him and 198 00:12:06,480 --> 00:12:09,719 Speaker 1: launched an allowed war and attack on him. And this 199 00:12:09,800 --> 00:12:12,480 Speaker 1: is what really disturbed people do. If they can't control 200 00:12:12,559 --> 00:12:16,840 Speaker 1: others through their sexuality or manipulation, then they attack, astroy, 201 00:12:17,080 --> 00:12:19,120 Speaker 1: destroy and hate them. And this is what we see 202 00:12:19,120 --> 00:12:23,280 Speaker 1: with cult leaders. To right. They most cults are sex cults, 203 00:12:23,320 --> 00:12:27,600 Speaker 1: so they use sex and power in ways to render 204 00:12:27,840 --> 00:12:32,280 Speaker 1: their followers helpless and Um, I don't doubt that Mr 205 00:12:32,360 --> 00:12:37,600 Speaker 1: Nurmy developed cancer or that his you know, some sort 206 00:12:37,600 --> 00:12:42,080 Speaker 1: of vulnerability to cancer was triggered by this situation because 207 00:12:42,120 --> 00:12:46,320 Speaker 1: it sounds extraordinarily stressful and toxic to me. Well, it 208 00:12:46,360 --> 00:12:48,319 Speaker 1: got to the point where I would say, in the 209 00:12:48,360 --> 00:12:53,520 Speaker 1: commercial breaks, please tag down the naked jetty areas photos please, 210 00:12:53,720 --> 00:12:56,840 Speaker 1: and whatever you do, do not put them upside my face. Okay, 211 00:12:56,880 --> 00:13:00,360 Speaker 1: because it was constant. But the reality was, that was 212 00:13:00,440 --> 00:13:03,719 Speaker 1: such a big part of the trial. I was thinking 213 00:13:03,760 --> 00:13:06,719 Speaker 1: about all those phone six types. Take a listen to this. 214 00:13:07,360 --> 00:13:12,760 Speaker 1: You are right in the bath. Oh, when we took 215 00:13:12,760 --> 00:13:18,280 Speaker 1: a bath together. That was that was surreal, like honestly, 216 00:13:18,360 --> 00:13:20,880 Speaker 1: and I think, I mean, maybe the candle light and 217 00:13:20,920 --> 00:13:22,480 Speaker 1: the bubble of all has something to do with it. 218 00:13:22,520 --> 00:13:27,880 Speaker 1: But you were amazing. You made me seriously, you made 219 00:13:27,880 --> 00:13:31,080 Speaker 1: me feel like a goddess. Like I wasn't saying you 220 00:13:31,120 --> 00:13:34,439 Speaker 1: were like worshiping me, but you were. You made me 221 00:13:34,520 --> 00:13:38,760 Speaker 1: feel like I was the most freaking beautiful woman on 222 00:13:38,840 --> 00:13:43,160 Speaker 1: the whole planet. Right, I so felt like I was 223 00:13:43,240 --> 00:13:48,120 Speaker 1: the goddess and so aside from all those warm, hezzy feelings, 224 00:13:48,200 --> 00:13:50,800 Speaker 1: but like it was, it was so sexy and it 225 00:13:50,880 --> 00:13:58,679 Speaker 1: was so hot, and oh gosh, that wasn't hard to 226 00:13:58,760 --> 00:14:09,079 Speaker 1: make you more freaking interviewer. You are right now because 227 00:14:09,080 --> 00:14:18,800 Speaker 1: I touch yourself. Damn party right. I just sorry. I'm 228 00:14:18,840 --> 00:14:24,640 Speaker 1: gonna tell you to astree You what I'm gonna tell 229 00:14:24,680 --> 00:14:31,160 Speaker 1: you to a tree you? Oh my gosh, that is 230 00:14:31,240 --> 00:14:36,440 Speaker 1: so debasing. I like it, and the jury heard that 231 00:14:36,560 --> 00:14:39,480 Speaker 1: and so much more. But it extended beyond that, according 232 00:14:39,480 --> 00:14:43,400 Speaker 1: to Kirk Nurmi Jodi Arias, former defense lawyer and author 233 00:14:43,640 --> 00:14:49,200 Speaker 1: of a bestseller Trapped with ms Arius on Amazon dot com. 234 00:14:49,240 --> 00:14:52,800 Speaker 1: Now listen to this. Okay, ladies, buckle your seat belts. 235 00:14:53,520 --> 00:14:56,480 Speaker 1: This is Kirk Nermie riding. I could have ignored all 236 00:14:56,520 --> 00:14:58,600 Speaker 1: this stuff that I really did not care to listen 237 00:14:58,640 --> 00:15:01,600 Speaker 1: to you, but listen id for the most part. That 238 00:15:01,720 --> 00:15:03,880 Speaker 1: is not to say that I didn't have my limits. 239 00:15:03,960 --> 00:15:06,080 Speaker 1: I remember one discussion I had with miss Arias that 240 00:15:06,160 --> 00:15:10,880 Speaker 1: related to her sex escapades with Alexander, certainly a relevant 241 00:15:10,920 --> 00:15:14,800 Speaker 1: topic given the facts of the case. But miss Arius 242 00:15:14,800 --> 00:15:18,560 Speaker 1: decided she wanted to inform me of the current state 243 00:15:19,120 --> 00:15:22,760 Speaker 1: of her vaginal grooming. Okay, I just wanted to let 244 00:15:22,800 --> 00:15:25,320 Speaker 1: that sink in for a moment. Now, Kirk nermy that 245 00:15:25,520 --> 00:15:28,040 Speaker 1: is in your book, right, That's not what some blogger 246 00:15:28,120 --> 00:15:31,040 Speaker 1: has written that is that is in my book. Okay, 247 00:15:31,040 --> 00:15:33,200 Speaker 1: I'm just trying to imagine the look on your face. 248 00:15:33,920 --> 00:15:36,840 Speaker 1: You're you were married at the time, right, Well, I 249 00:15:36,920 --> 00:15:40,360 Speaker 1: still am almost twenty five years and you know, good 250 00:15:40,360 --> 00:15:43,240 Speaker 1: to know, good to know? How did you how does 251 00:15:43,280 --> 00:15:47,440 Speaker 1: your wife take to Arius talking about her vaginal grooming 252 00:15:47,520 --> 00:15:51,520 Speaker 1: as you phrases, well, of course, I'm I'm not wasn't 253 00:15:51,520 --> 00:15:57,680 Speaker 1: sharing that you didn't tell until why client client privilege? 254 00:15:57,920 --> 00:16:01,720 Speaker 1: In my in my estimation way it talking some of 255 00:16:01,720 --> 00:16:04,520 Speaker 1: the things she did. Uh, it came out in the book. 256 00:16:04,600 --> 00:16:08,440 Speaker 1: But listen, you know it. You have a poker face, right, 257 00:16:08,480 --> 00:16:11,040 Speaker 1: I mean as a defense attorney, you're gonna hear lots 258 00:16:11,040 --> 00:16:13,960 Speaker 1: of things, and over the years, uh, you develop a 259 00:16:14,040 --> 00:16:18,080 Speaker 1: poker face and it's just like just something that's just 260 00:16:18,120 --> 00:16:20,320 Speaker 1: going to be said. And I didn't really care. I 261 00:16:20,360 --> 00:16:22,880 Speaker 1: didn't fall for it as it were. You know what's 262 00:16:22,920 --> 00:16:26,680 Speaker 1: interesting about what you're saying. I remember so many times 263 00:16:27,680 --> 00:16:31,400 Speaker 1: Dr Bethany Marshall. I would come home from court trying 264 00:16:31,640 --> 00:16:34,800 Speaker 1: whatever case it may have been, you know, a triple murder, 265 00:16:35,440 --> 00:16:39,960 Speaker 1: serial killer, or a child rapist and I would go 266 00:16:40,080 --> 00:16:44,680 Speaker 1: get some dinner, get some supper, and David, my now husband, 267 00:16:44,680 --> 00:16:46,720 Speaker 1: will be talking about what had happened that day and 268 00:16:46,880 --> 00:16:48,880 Speaker 1: look at me and go, what so what happened in court? 269 00:16:48,880 --> 00:16:52,920 Speaker 1: And I'm like, oh, you know, it's it's a lot. 270 00:16:53,800 --> 00:16:57,920 Speaker 1: And I just could not. I would not did not 271 00:16:58,040 --> 00:17:02,320 Speaker 1: want to talk about got it. For me to talk 272 00:17:02,360 --> 00:17:04,879 Speaker 1: about something painful, it's like reliving it. I had to 273 00:17:04,920 --> 00:17:08,520 Speaker 1: go through it all over again. And like Normie just said, 274 00:17:08,560 --> 00:17:12,520 Speaker 1: I mean, you get home, why would you want to 275 00:17:12,520 --> 00:17:15,800 Speaker 1: talk about j d Arius is Vagina when you get home? 276 00:17:16,160 --> 00:17:19,560 Speaker 1: I mean I would not want to know. I don't 277 00:17:19,560 --> 00:17:22,919 Speaker 1: even want to think about it, okay, And hearing her 278 00:17:23,000 --> 00:17:25,919 Speaker 1: seeing Oh Holy Night, I wish I could get that 279 00:17:25,960 --> 00:17:28,160 Speaker 1: out of it. Oh. I love that I played every 280 00:17:28,200 --> 00:17:31,040 Speaker 1: intro and out you you know, went into out play 281 00:17:31,080 --> 00:17:34,639 Speaker 1: Oh Holy night. Okay. As a matter of fact, Alan roll, 282 00:17:34,920 --> 00:17:41,200 Speaker 1: Holy night, Oh Holy night. The stars are brightly shock. 283 00:17:43,119 --> 00:17:53,240 Speaker 1: It is a night of our dear saviors. Longly world 284 00:17:53,400 --> 00:17:59,520 Speaker 1: and sin and error, poy until he appeared and this 285 00:17:59,760 --> 00:18:08,160 Speaker 1: all found its word a thrill, the where we world 286 00:18:08,280 --> 00:18:12,200 Speaker 1: rejoices for you all. And the big lead this morning 287 00:18:12,280 --> 00:18:15,560 Speaker 1: is Jody Aris just will not let us rest. She's 288 00:18:15,640 --> 00:18:19,159 Speaker 1: now demanding her appeal be kept a secret. What's that 289 00:18:19,200 --> 00:18:23,480 Speaker 1: all about, alexis to rest? Shuck. So, Jody has been 290 00:18:23,920 --> 00:18:26,560 Speaker 1: locked up in prison for three years and she finally 291 00:18:26,600 --> 00:18:30,520 Speaker 1: her attorneys finally filed her appeal. But instead of telling 292 00:18:30,600 --> 00:18:32,439 Speaker 1: us what the grounds are for their appeal, they actually 293 00:18:32,440 --> 00:18:36,760 Speaker 1: filed a request to have the everything sealed. They would 294 00:18:36,760 --> 00:18:40,119 Speaker 1: want it hidden from the public. They do not want 295 00:18:40,200 --> 00:18:43,040 Speaker 1: anybody to be able to read what it is they 296 00:18:43,160 --> 00:18:45,760 Speaker 1: are arguing would be the grounds for her case to 297 00:18:45,800 --> 00:18:50,440 Speaker 1: be overturned, her conviction and sentence for murder. And what 298 00:18:50,640 --> 00:18:54,280 Speaker 1: they have cited is the fact that the case is 299 00:18:54,520 --> 00:18:58,280 Speaker 1: of such public interests. They say that because of this, 300 00:18:58,520 --> 00:19:02,520 Speaker 1: people are afraid to come forward and testify on her behalf. 301 00:19:03,000 --> 00:19:06,800 Speaker 1: They say that the public records that I have requested 302 00:19:07,320 --> 00:19:11,800 Speaker 1: have become part of the case, which again public records 303 00:19:12,160 --> 00:19:13,800 Speaker 1: are part of the case that they don't want the 304 00:19:13,840 --> 00:19:15,760 Speaker 1: public to know about, even though you have a right 305 00:19:15,800 --> 00:19:18,639 Speaker 1: to know about these things. So they are asking the 306 00:19:19,280 --> 00:19:22,920 Speaker 1: appealed court to allow them to file everything in secret. 307 00:19:23,240 --> 00:19:27,280 Speaker 1: Also speaking about the very lights Jodi Arias is another 308 00:19:27,440 --> 00:19:31,240 Speaker 1: of her attorneys, Jennifer Wilmot. Listen as Wilmot speaks to 309 00:19:31,400 --> 00:19:35,280 Speaker 1: Arizona Republic Court reporter Michael Keefer. Once we started trial 310 00:19:35,320 --> 00:19:38,879 Speaker 1: in January, I went through death threats my family, They 311 00:19:38,920 --> 00:19:42,080 Speaker 1: threatened my children, having deputies walk us across the street 312 00:19:42,119 --> 00:19:45,280 Speaker 1: with their hands on their guns. Things like that. I've 313 00:19:45,359 --> 00:19:48,160 Speaker 1: never experienced before, and I really didn't think that this 314 00:19:48,200 --> 00:19:49,919 Speaker 1: case would be that type of case to have that. 315 00:19:50,160 --> 00:19:52,639 Speaker 1: Do you think this is an example of how cases 316 00:19:52,680 --> 00:19:54,480 Speaker 1: are going to be in the future. I hope not. 317 00:19:54,680 --> 00:19:56,720 Speaker 1: I don't see the attraction to this case. I don't 318 00:19:56,760 --> 00:20:00,000 Speaker 1: know why there were followers, um, why people would show 319 00:20:00,080 --> 00:20:03,680 Speaker 1: up every day. I really hope that. I mean, as 320 00:20:03,720 --> 00:20:06,840 Speaker 1: a state, as a country, as a world, people wouldn't 321 00:20:06,880 --> 00:20:09,359 Speaker 1: be that fascinated with someone's murder. I think it's a 322 00:20:09,400 --> 00:20:12,400 Speaker 1: sad commentary. This is what they're saying. They don't really 323 00:20:12,440 --> 00:20:18,680 Speaker 1: explain why, other than two very mysteriously right in their 324 00:20:18,680 --> 00:20:23,960 Speaker 1: motion that their brief must remain secret because it is 325 00:20:24,040 --> 00:20:27,679 Speaker 1: quote in the interest of protecting the safety of certain parties. 326 00:20:28,280 --> 00:20:30,480 Speaker 1: Maybe it's to protect us from having to hear about 327 00:20:30,480 --> 00:20:34,239 Speaker 1: her vagina anymore. I don't know, but I can guarantee this. 328 00:20:34,359 --> 00:20:37,080 Speaker 1: I don't think there's any way that the appeal is 329 00:20:37,119 --> 00:20:40,520 Speaker 1: going to be kept secret. Kurt Nermy, her former defense attorney, 330 00:20:40,560 --> 00:20:45,240 Speaker 1: author of Trapped with ms Arius on Amazon dot com said, 331 00:20:45,280 --> 00:20:52,120 Speaker 1: that's a very unusual move. It is, Ashley Wilcott, you're 332 00:20:52,160 --> 00:20:55,480 Speaker 1: a judge and a lawyer. That's very rare. In fact, 333 00:20:55,480 --> 00:21:00,440 Speaker 1: I've never seen accept in some m mob in drug 334 00:21:00,480 --> 00:21:03,639 Speaker 1: cases for any of the filings on appeal to be 335 00:21:03,760 --> 00:21:06,320 Speaker 1: kept secret. That's right, So Nancy there. You know, as 336 00:21:06,359 --> 00:21:08,679 Speaker 1: a judge, I have to apply the law to the 337 00:21:08,720 --> 00:21:11,800 Speaker 1: facts that are presented, and there is a legal presumption 338 00:21:12,160 --> 00:21:14,960 Speaker 1: that appeals should be public. That's what the law provides, 339 00:21:15,200 --> 00:21:17,959 Speaker 1: and I cannot imagine a set of facts convincing me 340 00:21:18,000 --> 00:21:21,800 Speaker 1: as a court that this should not be a public appeal. 341 00:21:22,000 --> 00:21:28,360 Speaker 1: That's the latest. Kurtnermi, super lawyer author Trapped with ms Arius. 342 00:21:28,359 --> 00:21:30,480 Speaker 1: Thank you for being with us, and we'll go out 343 00:21:30,480 --> 00:21:37,960 Speaker 1: with a little more Holy Night on your knee. Oh 344 00:21:38,040 --> 00:21:52,040 Speaker 1: hey angel boys, Oh no, d b oh no, when 345 00:21:52,119 --> 00:22:06,479 Speaker 1: christ was born? Oh no, de b oh. Did you 346 00:22:06,560 --> 00:22:09,200 Speaker 1: know about a recent law that could leave your personal 347 00:22:09,320 --> 00:22:14,040 Speaker 1: data exposed online for anybody to find? If you've turned 348 00:22:14,040 --> 00:22:16,920 Speaker 1: on the news lately, you know the internet has created 349 00:22:16,960 --> 00:22:22,000 Speaker 1: a dangerous new world. Data breaches exposed private information. There's 350 00:22:22,000 --> 00:22:25,439 Speaker 1: a new cybersecurity threat every other day, and criminals can 351 00:22:25,480 --> 00:22:28,439 Speaker 1: sell the identity of you and your family on the 352 00:22:28,520 --> 00:22:32,240 Speaker 1: dart web. It's time you take the power back by 353 00:22:32,400 --> 00:22:35,919 Speaker 1: using a new website called truth Finder. Truth Finder allows 354 00:22:35,920 --> 00:22:39,679 Speaker 1: you to find out exactly what information exists about you online. 355 00:22:40,000 --> 00:22:42,600 Speaker 1: Have you gotten a speeding ticket, received a lean from 356 00:22:42,640 --> 00:22:46,639 Speaker 1: the i R S, forgotten about an embarrassing social media profile. 357 00:22:47,160 --> 00:22:50,960 Speaker 1: Truth Finder searches through millions of public records, puts all 358 00:22:51,040 --> 00:22:54,520 Speaker 1: that data together and one easy to read report. Members 359 00:22:54,560 --> 00:22:57,520 Speaker 1: get unlimited searches, so you can also look up those 360 00:22:57,560 --> 00:23:00,720 Speaker 1: close to you and make sure they're not fighting something 361 00:23:00,760 --> 00:23:04,280 Speaker 1: from the past. You also get free dart Web monitoring 362 00:23:04,359 --> 00:23:08,399 Speaker 1: to make truth Finder the ultimate tool in identity protection. 363 00:23:08,880 --> 00:23:11,679 Speaker 1: If your personal info appears for sale on the dart web, 364 00:23:12,040 --> 00:23:14,880 Speaker 1: you'll be the first to know. Visit truth finder dot com. 365 00:23:14,920 --> 00:23:21,640 Speaker 1: Slash Nancy, enter your own name, Get started. Beautiful Utah 366 00:23:21,680 --> 00:23:26,880 Speaker 1: Boy Dead. He dies over the weekend after an These 367 00:23:26,880 --> 00:23:31,800 Speaker 1: little friends were playing a game called the Fainting Game. 368 00:23:33,240 --> 00:23:37,119 Speaker 1: Listen to to his mom, mother's day, planning my son's funeral, 369 00:23:37,119 --> 00:23:47,080 Speaker 1: writing his obiture instead of having breakfaster sorry flowers or 370 00:23:47,960 --> 00:23:50,800 Speaker 1: I love you mom. Try to imagine what it would 371 00:23:50,800 --> 00:23:54,240 Speaker 1: be like and then multiply that by infinity, and that's 372 00:23:54,400 --> 00:23:56,800 Speaker 1: kind of what it's like. He was just playing a 373 00:23:56,840 --> 00:23:59,880 Speaker 1: game and he didn't think things through. With any other 374 00:24:00,000 --> 00:24:01,840 Speaker 1: mother to go through what I have to go through. 375 00:24:02,080 --> 00:24:06,159 Speaker 1: That is the mother of to A Malwaihi, describing the 376 00:24:06,200 --> 00:24:08,760 Speaker 1: pains she is suffering after her twelve year old little 377 00:24:08,760 --> 00:24:13,720 Speaker 1: boy their family living in Utah is found dead. He 378 00:24:13,840 --> 00:24:16,879 Speaker 1: was just playing a game and he didn't understand. He 379 00:24:16,920 --> 00:24:20,320 Speaker 1: didn't think things through. He was playing a game in 380 00:24:20,359 --> 00:24:24,080 Speaker 1: the hopes of cutting off oxygen and it makes you 381 00:24:24,359 --> 00:24:29,920 Speaker 1: pass out. Take a listen to children laughing and playing 382 00:24:30,040 --> 00:24:37,120 Speaker 1: about the choking game. The pass out challenge as it's called. 383 00:24:44,840 --> 00:24:47,920 Speaker 1: I'm going to show you now is completely safe. Don't 384 00:24:47,920 --> 00:24:51,520 Speaker 1: listen to other people out to alexas terres Chuck, investigative 385 00:24:51,520 --> 00:24:56,080 Speaker 1: reporter with Radar Online dot Com, what happened to Chewa? 386 00:24:56,359 --> 00:24:59,480 Speaker 1: So you had said he and his little friends, they're 387 00:24:59,520 --> 00:25:01,639 Speaker 1: little These was our eleven and twelve years old. He 388 00:25:01,680 --> 00:25:04,120 Speaker 1: was twelve years old. Play this game where they cut 389 00:25:04,119 --> 00:25:08,320 Speaker 1: off their circulation. They choked themselves, but they videotape it 390 00:25:08,359 --> 00:25:10,520 Speaker 1: and then they put it online and so this has 391 00:25:10,560 --> 00:25:13,680 Speaker 1: become a thing, a popularity contest, which is everything else 392 00:25:13,680 --> 00:25:15,639 Speaker 1: with these little kids in the Internet. They want people 393 00:25:15,680 --> 00:25:17,520 Speaker 1: to watch it, they want the lights, they want to 394 00:25:17,520 --> 00:25:21,360 Speaker 1: become famous. So he did this and it went too 395 00:25:21,400 --> 00:25:24,640 Speaker 1: far and he cut off the circulation long enough that 396 00:25:24,640 --> 00:25:27,840 Speaker 1: that he died and his mother frantically called nine one 397 00:25:27,880 --> 00:25:30,600 Speaker 1: one when she found him. They rushed into the hospital, 398 00:25:30,600 --> 00:25:33,520 Speaker 1: but it was too late for him to Alan Duke 399 00:25:33,840 --> 00:25:37,440 Speaker 1: joining us from l A. Alan, do you remember about 400 00:25:37,480 --> 00:25:42,520 Speaker 1: a year maybe longer ago, I was reading about this 401 00:25:42,600 --> 00:25:48,480 Speaker 1: game and it was all over Russia, and I think 402 00:25:48,520 --> 00:25:50,879 Speaker 1: we did a story then, but it wasn't really on 403 00:25:50,880 --> 00:25:55,520 Speaker 1: our radar. And I'm like, I remember saying, Alan, it's 404 00:25:55,560 --> 00:25:57,680 Speaker 1: gonna take no time before it gets to the US, 405 00:25:57,760 --> 00:25:59,760 Speaker 1: you know that? And you went, yep, and it's here. 406 00:26:00,200 --> 00:26:05,720 Speaker 1: It's social media. It's you know, Twitter, Instagram, Snapchat, Facebook. 407 00:26:05,760 --> 00:26:09,000 Speaker 1: It just spreads on social media where something is a 408 00:26:09,000 --> 00:26:11,040 Speaker 1: trend on one side of the world, pretty soon it 409 00:26:11,040 --> 00:26:14,240 Speaker 1: comes over to America. Yeah, there there are no borders 410 00:26:14,280 --> 00:26:17,919 Speaker 1: for this. Ashley Willcot with me, juvenile judge, lawyer and 411 00:26:17,960 --> 00:26:22,160 Speaker 1: founder of child crime watch dot com ash. This little 412 00:26:22,200 --> 00:26:25,639 Speaker 1: boy and his friends had just gone to sixth grade. 413 00:26:26,440 --> 00:26:30,680 Speaker 1: They are a year and a half older than our children. 414 00:26:31,119 --> 00:26:34,720 Speaker 1: Isn't that terrifying? And Nancy, do you know this really 415 00:26:34,840 --> 00:26:37,840 Speaker 1: dates back? There are cases the United States as far 416 00:26:37,880 --> 00:26:42,360 Speaker 1: back as and there are kids who have died as 417 00:26:42,440 --> 00:26:46,600 Speaker 1: young as nine. That's younger than our kids. Can you 418 00:26:46,680 --> 00:26:50,880 Speaker 1: imagine at nine? And it all boils down to kids 419 00:26:51,480 --> 00:26:55,600 Speaker 1: brains are not developed. They do not understand the danger 420 00:26:56,119 --> 00:27:00,720 Speaker 1: in this. They do not get it. It's not just toy, 421 00:27:00,960 --> 00:27:03,879 Speaker 1: all right, it's just not him across the country. That 422 00:27:04,040 --> 00:27:08,200 Speaker 1: happens in another home. Take a listen to this call, 423 00:27:08,560 --> 00:27:17,320 Speaker 1: din't can't be there with you? That is about little 424 00:27:17,440 --> 00:27:22,480 Speaker 1: Carson Steel. His dad walks into his room and finds 425 00:27:22,520 --> 00:27:28,719 Speaker 1: his son. They're dead, hanging from a belt. He couldn't 426 00:27:28,720 --> 00:27:32,879 Speaker 1: even understand what he was seeing. Listen and when I 427 00:27:32,920 --> 00:27:36,359 Speaker 1: saw his not touching the ground and it's all belt 428 00:27:36,400 --> 00:27:38,119 Speaker 1: around his neck, and it just took me a minute 429 00:27:38,119 --> 00:27:42,840 Speaker 1: forward register Then, to make matters worse, little Carson's mother 430 00:27:43,680 --> 00:27:51,119 Speaker 1: finds the choking challenge on video. It was video and 431 00:27:51,160 --> 00:27:54,320 Speaker 1: he was narrating, so he probably was maybe involved in 432 00:27:54,840 --> 00:27:58,840 Speaker 1: Online Challenge Back to Alexa's Torres Chuck with Radar Online 433 00:27:58,920 --> 00:28:02,280 Speaker 1: dot Com therey us to get a reporter. Alexis, there's 434 00:28:02,800 --> 00:28:07,760 Speaker 1: Tua in Utah, and then across the country there's little Carson. 435 00:28:07,840 --> 00:28:10,840 Speaker 1: What happened in Carson's case the same thing this little 436 00:28:10,840 --> 00:28:13,280 Speaker 1: boy had been playing that they're calling it the fainting 437 00:28:13,359 --> 00:28:16,639 Speaker 1: game because what they do is they faint just for 438 00:28:16,680 --> 00:28:18,919 Speaker 1: a few seconds. There these little kids cut off their 439 00:28:18,960 --> 00:28:21,520 Speaker 1: oxygen and then they wake up and and they've they've 440 00:28:21,720 --> 00:28:23,639 Speaker 1: experienced this painting and there's a video of it, and 441 00:28:23,640 --> 00:28:26,000 Speaker 1: they can laugh at each other because they look really 442 00:28:26,040 --> 00:28:28,280 Speaker 1: silly when they You know, you fall down and you 443 00:28:28,359 --> 00:28:31,760 Speaker 1: don't have any you're not conscious. But the same thing 444 00:28:31,800 --> 00:28:35,480 Speaker 1: this little boy used to belt to hang himself, and 445 00:28:36,000 --> 00:28:39,080 Speaker 1: it went too far. Because this is this is not 446 00:28:39,120 --> 00:28:41,280 Speaker 1: a game that anybody should be playing. I want anybody 447 00:28:41,280 --> 00:28:43,520 Speaker 1: listening thinking that this is a fun game that they 448 00:28:43,520 --> 00:28:46,520 Speaker 1: should try out. This is what this is disgusting. This 449 00:28:46,600 --> 00:28:48,880 Speaker 1: is what porn stars do, and this is this is 450 00:28:48,920 --> 00:28:52,120 Speaker 1: why this has permeated our culture. You know, Alexis to 451 00:28:52,240 --> 00:28:56,840 Speaker 1: rest Chuck right are online investigative reporter. I'm not doing 452 00:28:56,840 --> 00:28:58,760 Speaker 1: this to tell other children about I'm doing it to 453 00:28:58,840 --> 00:29:01,520 Speaker 1: tell parents about it. And I don't know how you 454 00:29:01,600 --> 00:29:06,760 Speaker 1: got into porn Alexas Dr Bethany Marshall, renown Psycho Analy's 455 00:29:06,800 --> 00:29:09,000 Speaker 1: joining me out of l A. There's another child I 456 00:29:09,040 --> 00:29:12,480 Speaker 1: want to highlight in addition to Tua in Utah, it's 457 00:29:12,560 --> 00:29:17,480 Speaker 1: Carson Steel. Carson Steel in South Carolina, York County. The 458 00:29:17,560 --> 00:29:22,040 Speaker 1: CDC estimating over one hudred children have already died in 459 00:29:22,120 --> 00:29:27,640 Speaker 1: our country alone playing something called the choking game or 460 00:29:27,680 --> 00:29:32,720 Speaker 1: the pass out challenge or the fainting game, where children 461 00:29:32,720 --> 00:29:35,560 Speaker 1: think they're just cutting off their air supply just for 462 00:29:35,640 --> 00:29:39,400 Speaker 1: a minute, and it makes you feel euphoric and dizzy. 463 00:29:39,440 --> 00:29:41,320 Speaker 1: I remember, even when Lucy was a little girl, she 464 00:29:41,320 --> 00:29:43,920 Speaker 1: would twirl around and around and around until she felt 465 00:29:43,960 --> 00:29:47,920 Speaker 1: dizzy and fall down laughing. All right, they think it's funny. 466 00:29:48,120 --> 00:29:50,640 Speaker 1: Dr Bethany, I don't know how Alexis managed to rope 467 00:29:50,640 --> 00:29:55,200 Speaker 1: in porn stars to this. You know, kids love to 468 00:29:55,200 --> 00:29:58,800 Speaker 1: play games with their bodies, you know, whether it's like 469 00:29:58,960 --> 00:30:02,719 Speaker 1: I don't know, lowing bubbles, spitting on people, spinning around 470 00:30:02,720 --> 00:30:05,239 Speaker 1: like Lucy did. And so I think that there's a 471 00:30:05,320 --> 00:30:10,480 Speaker 1: perfect storm of um events that lead to something like this. 472 00:30:10,600 --> 00:30:13,200 Speaker 1: One of these little boys had just returned from camp, 473 00:30:13,720 --> 00:30:16,480 Speaker 1: so probably all the other boys were talking about it. There. 474 00:30:17,080 --> 00:30:21,920 Speaker 1: Boys love often, boys love ropes, um belts, things that 475 00:30:21,960 --> 00:30:24,120 Speaker 1: they can tie things together with. That seems to be 476 00:30:24,200 --> 00:30:27,760 Speaker 1: a boy characteristic. The prefrontal cortex is not yet fully 477 00:30:27,800 --> 00:30:30,880 Speaker 1: developed in children, so they can't That means they cannot 478 00:30:31,000 --> 00:30:36,120 Speaker 1: anticipate dangerous situations or learn from their mistakes. The executive 479 00:30:36,160 --> 00:30:39,400 Speaker 1: planning part of the brain is very really developed. And 480 00:30:39,440 --> 00:30:43,280 Speaker 1: then there's this copycat syndrome where they see it on 481 00:30:43,320 --> 00:30:46,239 Speaker 1: the net or they see other kids doing it, And 482 00:30:46,280 --> 00:30:50,560 Speaker 1: I think, finally, you probably have one boy in a 483 00:30:50,640 --> 00:30:54,360 Speaker 1: circle of boys. I'm guessing I can't this is um 484 00:30:54,400 --> 00:30:57,280 Speaker 1: what I'm hypothesizing. I don't know for sure, but there's 485 00:30:57,320 --> 00:31:00,720 Speaker 1: probably a ring leader amongst all these boys, one boy 486 00:31:00,720 --> 00:31:03,400 Speaker 1: who's quite fascinated with it and keeps bringing up the 487 00:31:03,440 --> 00:31:06,800 Speaker 1: topic and pushing other boys to experiment. And then it 488 00:31:06,880 --> 00:31:10,320 Speaker 1: just comes together in some very tragic and fatal way. 489 00:31:10,600 --> 00:31:15,920 Speaker 1: The thing about them having a fainting challenge. The mom says, quote, 490 00:31:16,000 --> 00:31:19,080 Speaker 1: I've asked myself a thousand times, why Carson did this? 491 00:31:19,200 --> 00:31:23,200 Speaker 1: Says mom Jennifer quote on his cell phone. Carson had 492 00:31:23,240 --> 00:31:26,640 Speaker 1: done it several times. The mom thinks he was involved 493 00:31:26,640 --> 00:31:29,760 Speaker 1: in some kind of an online challenge because it was 494 00:31:29,960 --> 00:31:35,480 Speaker 1: videoed and Carson was narrating it, and it's you video 495 00:31:35,560 --> 00:31:40,280 Speaker 1: yourself choking and you get you for you pass out 496 00:31:40,920 --> 00:31:45,240 Speaker 1: and the the goal is you stop choking yourself then, 497 00:31:45,560 --> 00:31:48,040 Speaker 1: But that's not how it worked out. As a matter 498 00:31:48,040 --> 00:31:53,680 Speaker 1: of fact, shortly after Carson passed away, an eleven year 499 00:31:53,680 --> 00:31:59,560 Speaker 1: old boy, Garrett Pope junior in Lancaster County, also died. 500 00:32:00,280 --> 00:32:04,760 Speaker 1: Um explain to me how that would work, Dr Bethany, 501 00:32:04,840 --> 00:32:08,880 Speaker 1: How would it work? They do? The children think they're 502 00:32:08,880 --> 00:32:12,200 Speaker 1: going to suffocate just long enough to get dizzy and 503 00:32:12,200 --> 00:32:15,520 Speaker 1: pass out in it, they're going to come to h 504 00:32:15,600 --> 00:32:19,120 Speaker 1: I mean again, because the prefrontal cortex is not fully developed, 505 00:32:19,160 --> 00:32:22,160 Speaker 1: they cannot anticipate that there might be a bad happening. 506 00:32:22,840 --> 00:32:27,280 Speaker 1: Keep in mind that school aged children are taught to 507 00:32:27,320 --> 00:32:30,280 Speaker 1: be competitive. It's also a good trade in children to 508 00:32:30,320 --> 00:32:32,440 Speaker 1: get the best grade and to be on the winning 509 00:32:32,480 --> 00:32:35,160 Speaker 1: team and to you know, turn in the best art 510 00:32:35,200 --> 00:32:38,600 Speaker 1: project or science project. But this is a group of 511 00:32:38,680 --> 00:32:43,840 Speaker 1: kids competing on their own, away from the oversight of parents. 512 00:32:44,520 --> 00:32:48,920 Speaker 1: Thinking that this whoever becomes the most euphoric or passes 513 00:32:48,960 --> 00:32:52,040 Speaker 1: out the longest will be the most popular kid. It's 514 00:32:52,040 --> 00:32:54,240 Speaker 1: like just king to the hill. It's it's the it's 515 00:32:54,240 --> 00:32:56,920 Speaker 1: the guy, the kid that rides the fastest bike. I mean, 516 00:32:57,560 --> 00:33:01,520 Speaker 1: in a way, it's that innocent, suite and simple, and 517 00:33:01,640 --> 00:33:05,280 Speaker 1: yet it takes a really bad turn when there's access 518 00:33:05,360 --> 00:33:08,480 Speaker 1: to something dangerous like a belt or rope around the neck. 519 00:33:09,000 --> 00:33:11,720 Speaker 1: And then you have the Internet where all you see 520 00:33:11,920 --> 00:33:15,719 Speaker 1: is the image of the other child choking themselves and 521 00:33:15,760 --> 00:33:19,280 Speaker 1: getting all these likes or people responding to them. And 522 00:33:19,280 --> 00:33:21,720 Speaker 1: then then the choking victim wants to have more likes, 523 00:33:21,800 --> 00:33:24,520 Speaker 1: wants to have more popularity, and at that point it 524 00:33:24,600 --> 00:33:28,560 Speaker 1: just spends out of control. To Ashley Wilcott, juvenile judge 525 00:33:28,680 --> 00:33:32,880 Speaker 1: law your founder of child crime watch dot com, it's 526 00:33:32,920 --> 00:33:35,400 Speaker 1: a double edged sword. I guess to try to talk 527 00:33:35,440 --> 00:33:38,320 Speaker 1: to your children about this in that way, you're also 528 00:33:38,440 --> 00:33:41,280 Speaker 1: informing them about it. If they haven't already heard of it, 529 00:33:41,320 --> 00:33:44,160 Speaker 1: then you tell them about it. And that's a struggle 530 00:33:44,240 --> 00:33:47,600 Speaker 1: parents have across the board with any activity that's dangerous. 531 00:33:47,640 --> 00:33:50,920 Speaker 1: But I personally will tell you I see too many 532 00:33:50,960 --> 00:33:54,000 Speaker 1: cases in court where kids are injured or killed, and 533 00:33:54,040 --> 00:33:57,560 Speaker 1: it happens all the time. And I believe as parents 534 00:33:57,600 --> 00:34:00,400 Speaker 1: we have a responsibility to educate our children's so yes, 535 00:34:00,400 --> 00:34:02,200 Speaker 1: it's going to make them aware this is going on. 536 00:34:02,560 --> 00:34:04,520 Speaker 1: But I just told my eighth grade son about a 537 00:34:04,600 --> 00:34:06,840 Speaker 1: thing that kids are doing with drugs, and his response 538 00:34:06,880 --> 00:34:09,560 Speaker 1: to me was, oh my gosh, that's the stupidest thing 539 00:34:09,600 --> 00:34:12,000 Speaker 1: I've ever heard. Why would a kid do that? So 540 00:34:12,360 --> 00:34:15,560 Speaker 1: I think we need to educate in a way that 541 00:34:15,560 --> 00:34:18,279 Speaker 1: our kids understand, Yes, this is out there, Yes this 542 00:34:18,360 --> 00:34:20,000 Speaker 1: is happening. I'm not telling you to make it a 543 00:34:20,000 --> 00:34:22,279 Speaker 1: big thing that's fun to do. I'm telling you to 544 00:34:22,440 --> 00:34:26,120 Speaker 1: educate you about it can actually kill you. Well. Another 545 00:34:26,200 --> 00:34:28,719 Speaker 1: thing that when I first heard about this back out 546 00:34:28,760 --> 00:34:32,480 Speaker 1: to Alan Deep joining me. It then was called the 547 00:34:32,520 --> 00:34:37,680 Speaker 1: Blue Whale Game or the Blue Whale Challenge. It was 548 00:34:37,760 --> 00:34:43,080 Speaker 1: a social network phenomenon and it was in multiple countries. 549 00:34:44,880 --> 00:34:49,160 Speaker 1: The game reports of tasks assigned to players over a 550 00:34:49,239 --> 00:34:55,040 Speaker 1: period of days where in the end you commit suicide. Okay, 551 00:34:55,160 --> 00:34:59,200 Speaker 1: then it morphed into the Fainting Game or the choking challenge, 552 00:34:59,760 --> 00:35:04,640 Speaker 1: and it's everywhere. If you believe you know anyone involved 553 00:35:04,680 --> 00:35:07,800 Speaker 1: in this deadly game, look for red or bloodshot eyes, 554 00:35:08,520 --> 00:35:12,400 Speaker 1: marks around the neck where excessive pressure has been applied. 555 00:35:13,480 --> 00:35:19,680 Speaker 1: When a person complains repeatedly of headaches or dizziness. Those 556 00:35:19,800 --> 00:35:25,960 Speaker 1: are characteristics of some kid playing the so called fainting game. Alan, 557 00:35:26,040 --> 00:35:32,120 Speaker 1: what's the hotline? It's seven three to National Suicide Prevention 558 00:35:32,200 --> 00:35:38,759 Speaker 1: Lifeline two seven three eight two five five, and they're 559 00:35:38,800 --> 00:35:42,360 Speaker 1: specifically warning about this. This is what I know. The 560 00:35:42,440 --> 00:35:51,320 Speaker 1: family of Toa Mawahi is grieving. Now. Listen to to us, mom, 561 00:35:51,560 --> 00:35:54,759 Speaker 1: uncle and coach. A lot of people loved my boy. 562 00:35:54,960 --> 00:35:57,880 Speaker 1: He would have been an amazing man. To see my 563 00:35:57,960 --> 00:36:01,680 Speaker 1: sister there Um pore ving Um at the side of 564 00:36:01,719 --> 00:36:05,480 Speaker 1: her son on a hospital bed was was very, very difficult. 565 00:36:05,840 --> 00:36:11,400 Speaker 1: This hurt, This hurts. It was like ice threw my 566 00:36:11,480 --> 00:36:16,719 Speaker 1: veins to watch my son cry, watch my other my 567 00:36:16,760 --> 00:36:21,239 Speaker 1: other kids on my team cry. As they say in 568 00:36:21,400 --> 00:36:26,759 Speaker 1: Alice in Wonderland, things are getting curious er and curious er. 569 00:36:28,480 --> 00:36:32,799 Speaker 1: The facts keep unfolding in a way that you think 570 00:36:32,840 --> 00:36:35,879 Speaker 1: you're onto something that just unravels in your hands. I'm 571 00:36:35,920 --> 00:36:40,680 Speaker 1: talking about the mysterious murder of a gorgeous young teacher, 572 00:36:40,840 --> 00:36:45,279 Speaker 1: Rachel del Tondo, found shot dead in the driveway of 573 00:36:45,360 --> 00:36:49,000 Speaker 1: her family home. She's absolutely gorgeous. And what has added 574 00:36:49,040 --> 00:36:52,960 Speaker 1: fuel to the fire of speculation regarding her murder is 575 00:36:53,000 --> 00:36:59,839 Speaker 1: that she had just bought this beautifully fitted, tailored, one 576 00:36:59,840 --> 00:37:06,160 Speaker 1: of a kind, handmade, ten thousand dollar wedding dress. Then 577 00:37:06,600 --> 00:37:11,560 Speaker 1: before the wedding went down, the groom jilts her, breaks 578 00:37:11,600 --> 00:37:14,120 Speaker 1: it all off. She stuck with a wedding dress. It 579 00:37:14,160 --> 00:37:18,759 Speaker 1: became a big drama in their upscale suburb, and then 580 00:37:18,920 --> 00:37:24,200 Speaker 1: she's gunned down in the driveway. Well, you naturally would 581 00:37:24,239 --> 00:37:28,000 Speaker 1: look at the groom to be but he has an alibi. 582 00:37:28,800 --> 00:37:32,319 Speaker 1: Then you find out that this young teacher had been 583 00:37:32,360 --> 00:37:37,759 Speaker 1: dismissed from her job. Then what's that all about. Then 584 00:37:37,800 --> 00:37:42,000 Speaker 1: you find out that she was set to testify a 585 00:37:42,040 --> 00:37:46,520 Speaker 1: grand jury about misappropriation of funds within the public school 586 00:37:46,560 --> 00:37:51,200 Speaker 1: where she taught. Then it's not over yet. It just 587 00:37:51,320 --> 00:37:55,279 Speaker 1: keeps going. Then you find out the reason that she 588 00:37:55,600 --> 00:37:58,000 Speaker 1: was suspended from teaching was because she was in a 589 00:37:58,040 --> 00:38:03,120 Speaker 1: steamed up car with a teen student at two am 590 00:38:03,160 --> 00:38:06,239 Speaker 1: in the morning and get side of the car, both 591 00:38:06,280 --> 00:38:11,360 Speaker 1: of them fully clothed, both of them denying any inappropriate conduct. 592 00:38:12,560 --> 00:38:15,279 Speaker 1: Her begging not for for her fiance, not to be 593 00:38:15,360 --> 00:38:20,120 Speaker 1: told about it. I mean, there's so many ways to 594 00:38:20,280 --> 00:38:23,520 Speaker 1: go with this, but so many avenues to investigate. But 595 00:38:23,719 --> 00:38:27,239 Speaker 1: right now the bombshell is a search warrant has just 596 00:38:27,520 --> 00:38:34,040 Speaker 1: been issued for a police officer wife Facebook account as 597 00:38:34,080 --> 00:38:39,440 Speaker 1: part of the investigation into the mysterious murder of Rachel Deltondo. 598 00:38:40,400 --> 00:38:45,000 Speaker 1: Out to renowned l A psychoanalyst, Dr Bethany Marshall and 599 00:38:45,120 --> 00:38:49,480 Speaker 1: founder a child crime watch dot com, juvenal Judge Ashley Wilcott, 600 00:38:49,760 --> 00:38:53,360 Speaker 1: I left out another suspect. Excuse me? I left out 601 00:38:53,640 --> 00:38:58,200 Speaker 1: not another suspect, but another avenue of investigation. Ashley. Do 602 00:38:58,320 --> 00:39:03,880 Speaker 1: you remember that the police report where she was found 603 00:39:03,880 --> 00:39:07,919 Speaker 1: at two am in a car with a eighteen boy 604 00:39:07,960 --> 00:39:10,759 Speaker 1: that never amounted to a hill of beans? But then 605 00:39:10,960 --> 00:39:16,120 Speaker 1: months later that report was leaked by someone with access 606 00:39:16,160 --> 00:39:20,800 Speaker 1: to police computer software. It was sent to her fiance, 607 00:39:21,080 --> 00:39:25,719 Speaker 1: to news outlets, to the school. Who could have done that? 608 00:39:25,960 --> 00:39:28,960 Speaker 1: What about it? Ashley? Well, that's right. So when you 609 00:39:29,040 --> 00:39:32,520 Speaker 1: say it didn't amount to a hill being let's be 610 00:39:32,640 --> 00:39:36,600 Speaker 1: specifically protective services in spite of the the boy that 611 00:39:36,719 --> 00:39:39,080 Speaker 1: was with her being a juvenile, and it never got 612 00:39:39,080 --> 00:39:41,440 Speaker 1: reported to the school. So who could have done that? 613 00:39:41,880 --> 00:39:45,719 Speaker 1: Someone perhaps that believes there's corruption in the police department. 614 00:39:45,800 --> 00:39:47,239 Speaker 1: They didn't do the right thing, so they're going to 615 00:39:47,360 --> 00:39:50,880 Speaker 1: leak it. Perhaps the What about a family member of 616 00:39:50,960 --> 00:39:53,959 Speaker 1: this juvenile who was caught with her? We don't know. 617 00:39:54,400 --> 00:39:58,520 Speaker 1: Take a listen to this relationship. I think it cooled 618 00:39:58,560 --> 00:40:01,720 Speaker 1: for a while, um and but the relationship never ended. 619 00:40:01,920 --> 00:40:05,240 Speaker 1: She was due to testify in front of the grand jury, 620 00:40:06,040 --> 00:40:10,400 Speaker 1: which has been investigating Aliquippa, among other entities, and she 621 00:40:10,520 --> 00:40:13,680 Speaker 1: was afraid. And we find it far from a coincidence 622 00:40:13,719 --> 00:40:17,160 Speaker 1: that she was murdered within days of having to testify. 623 00:40:17,200 --> 00:40:19,080 Speaker 1: This was not a crime of passion. I believe it's 624 00:40:19,120 --> 00:40:22,320 Speaker 1: a crime of a cover up, cover up. This is 625 00:40:22,360 --> 00:40:26,640 Speaker 1: another thing I'm learning to Dr Bethany Marshall, renowned psychoanalyst 626 00:40:26,719 --> 00:40:29,640 Speaker 1: out of l A. I found out her fiancee as 627 00:40:29,680 --> 00:40:33,480 Speaker 1: a millionaire. Okay, that isn't either here nor there. But 628 00:40:33,520 --> 00:40:35,920 Speaker 1: it's just another curious fact. You know how I get 629 00:40:36,040 --> 00:40:40,200 Speaker 1: involved in every witness's story and all the ins and 630 00:40:40,280 --> 00:40:44,759 Speaker 1: outs of every single move. What about this, Bethany? A 631 00:40:44,880 --> 00:40:49,400 Speaker 1: search warrant file seeking access to the Facebook account of 632 00:40:49,520 --> 00:40:54,000 Speaker 1: the mother of a witness in the murder of Rachel 633 00:40:54,080 --> 00:40:59,759 Speaker 1: del Tondo, it's seeking access to catch This hold on 634 00:41:00,280 --> 00:41:03,759 Speaker 1: follow me, stay with me is so confusing and need 635 00:41:03,760 --> 00:41:07,759 Speaker 1: an ORG chart. I know the Facebook account belongs to 636 00:41:07,840 --> 00:41:14,759 Speaker 1: the wife of a police sergeant whose daughter went with 637 00:41:14,800 --> 00:41:17,680 Speaker 1: a murder victim that night for ice cream. Now what 638 00:41:17,920 --> 00:41:24,240 Speaker 1: could possibly be on the police officer's wife Facebook account? 639 00:41:24,239 --> 00:41:31,160 Speaker 1: Their status, updates, notes, shares, postings, friend listings, private messages. 640 00:41:31,760 --> 00:41:37,279 Speaker 1: I'm reading from official documents um that we have obtained 641 00:41:37,520 --> 00:41:41,400 Speaker 1: regarding their search warrants. What would a mother, a wife 642 00:41:41,400 --> 00:41:43,400 Speaker 1: of a police officer have to do with any of this. 643 00:41:43,960 --> 00:41:46,680 Speaker 1: One of the things we know is that the local 644 00:41:46,719 --> 00:41:50,920 Speaker 1: police department was under investigation, and I'm not sure what 645 00:41:50,960 --> 00:41:54,160 Speaker 1: they were being investigated for, but Rachel that Deltondo was 646 00:41:54,360 --> 00:41:58,560 Speaker 1: cooperating with them. What doesn't make sense to me is 647 00:41:58,600 --> 00:42:01,600 Speaker 1: that if the wife of the plice officer was somehow 648 00:42:01,680 --> 00:42:05,760 Speaker 1: involved in the shooting. A mother would never arrange something 649 00:42:05,840 --> 00:42:10,080 Speaker 1: like that if her daughter was with the intended victim. 650 00:42:10,120 --> 00:42:13,799 Speaker 1: I mean, does that make sense? It doesn't right. The 651 00:42:13,840 --> 00:42:15,880 Speaker 1: other thing I keep holding in my mind is that 652 00:42:15,960 --> 00:42:19,880 Speaker 1: Rachel Delpondo was the victim of stalking in some way 653 00:42:19,920 --> 00:42:23,560 Speaker 1: and in some form. Somebody really had it out for her. 654 00:42:24,000 --> 00:42:29,840 Speaker 1: Somebody was leaking information about her, somebody was smearing her image. 655 00:42:29,880 --> 00:42:32,960 Speaker 1: There was a huge smear campaign. But I'm beginning to 656 00:42:33,000 --> 00:42:35,600 Speaker 1: wonder if two things weren't going on at once, and 657 00:42:35,719 --> 00:42:39,239 Speaker 1: that's why we're confused, if perhaps someone was stalking her, 658 00:42:39,360 --> 00:42:42,680 Speaker 1: but at the same time, another person wanted her dad 659 00:42:42,800 --> 00:42:45,640 Speaker 1: because she was at the center of an investigation. You know, 660 00:42:45,680 --> 00:42:49,400 Speaker 1: another interesting thing, the daughter is a minor now this 661 00:42:49,480 --> 00:42:52,680 Speaker 1: police officer's wife. And just so you know, the police 662 00:42:52,680 --> 00:42:58,120 Speaker 1: sergeant has been placed on administrative leave. He's off the 663 00:42:58,160 --> 00:43:01,359 Speaker 1: force for now on the l Equipped Police Department. This 664 00:43:01,440 --> 00:43:04,920 Speaker 1: is just getting more and more twisted, or as I said, 665 00:43:05,200 --> 00:43:08,560 Speaker 1: curious er and curious er. Now think about it. Bethany, 666 00:43:08,840 --> 00:43:12,680 Speaker 1: Dr Bethany, the daughter that went with the murder victim, 667 00:43:12,680 --> 00:43:15,840 Speaker 1: the teacher for ice cream that night, is a miner. 668 00:43:16,880 --> 00:43:21,400 Speaker 1: Now police want to see her mom's Facebook everything to 669 00:43:21,440 --> 00:43:25,480 Speaker 1: do with that, private messages, photos, friends, likes, listening to 670 00:43:25,520 --> 00:43:29,160 Speaker 1: the works. Is that connected to the daughter in some way? 671 00:43:29,200 --> 00:43:33,359 Speaker 1: Do you think it's interesting because it tells me that well, 672 00:43:33,840 --> 00:43:37,600 Speaker 1: I'm a little unclear why Rachel Deltondo would be out 673 00:43:37,640 --> 00:43:39,719 Speaker 1: with a miner, you know, late on a Sunday night 674 00:43:39,800 --> 00:43:41,960 Speaker 1: on Mother's Day, because we already know she was with 675 00:43:42,000 --> 00:43:44,799 Speaker 1: the teen in the car. But I'm trying not to 676 00:43:44,880 --> 00:43:48,160 Speaker 1: make too much of that. In a minute, the thing 677 00:43:48,160 --> 00:43:51,200 Speaker 1: about the team in the car, apparently she had had 678 00:43:51,400 --> 00:43:55,239 Speaker 1: the dead teacher, Rachel Deltondo, the bride with a ten 679 00:43:55,280 --> 00:43:58,840 Speaker 1: tho dollar wedding dress, had had a relationship with that 680 00:43:58,960 --> 00:44:03,280 Speaker 1: teen's older other. So were they in the car talking 681 00:44:03,320 --> 00:44:08,239 Speaker 1: about that? I don't know, but there was never a 682 00:44:08,320 --> 00:44:13,520 Speaker 1: complaint that she had underage sex in any way with 683 00:44:13,640 --> 00:44:17,960 Speaker 1: that teen in the car. She was at some point 684 00:44:18,080 --> 00:44:21,520 Speaker 1: dating his older brother. Now, remember she's engaged to a millionaire, 685 00:44:21,920 --> 00:44:25,080 Speaker 1: so you know, some things about to blow, all right 686 00:44:25,239 --> 00:44:28,360 Speaker 1: with this love triangle? Go ahead, Well, it's interesting to 687 00:44:28,440 --> 00:44:30,480 Speaker 1: you that she's hanging out with so many miners. I 688 00:44:30,520 --> 00:44:32,360 Speaker 1: don't know what to make about that. You know, maybe 689 00:44:32,360 --> 00:44:35,080 Speaker 1: that's a minor point, you know, perhaps because she was 690 00:44:35,120 --> 00:44:38,280 Speaker 1: a teacher she really cares about her students, or maybe 691 00:44:38,280 --> 00:44:42,160 Speaker 1: she has age inappropriate relationships. But if she has age 692 00:44:42,160 --> 00:44:46,360 Speaker 1: inappropriate relationships, the sergeant's daughter who was with her that 693 00:44:46,560 --> 00:44:49,239 Speaker 1: night is going to be a treasure trove of information 694 00:44:49,760 --> 00:44:52,839 Speaker 1: because that means Rachel will have confided in her talk 695 00:44:52,960 --> 00:44:56,560 Speaker 1: to her, and if this miner has a good relationship 696 00:44:56,600 --> 00:44:59,719 Speaker 1: with her mother, there may be a lot of messaging 697 00:44:59,760 --> 00:45:02,239 Speaker 1: back and forth about what was going on that night, 698 00:45:02,800 --> 00:45:06,919 Speaker 1: about things Rachel has said, about relationships that Rachel has. 699 00:45:07,080 --> 00:45:11,200 Speaker 1: So it could be that just by proxy, the sergeant's wife, 700 00:45:11,520 --> 00:45:15,120 Speaker 1: the miner's mother, has a lot of information about what 701 00:45:15,239 --> 00:45:17,879 Speaker 1: went on that night. Wiganne Ashley willcon listen. The other 702 00:45:17,920 --> 00:45:20,719 Speaker 1: thing we need to think about is the wife's private 703 00:45:20,800 --> 00:45:25,360 Speaker 1: Facebook account that's been subpoena. I automatically think of the husband. 704 00:45:25,480 --> 00:45:28,200 Speaker 1: Is he perhaps using that as their information about him 705 00:45:28,200 --> 00:45:32,160 Speaker 1: on the police force or his involvement or potential involvement 706 00:45:32,160 --> 00:45:35,600 Speaker 1: in it, because he may be using her private Facebook messaging. 707 00:45:35,680 --> 00:45:40,640 Speaker 1: They're married to Dr Bethany Marshall, l a psychoanalysts. I'm 708 00:45:40,640 --> 00:45:43,880 Speaker 1: looking at a photo right now of the deceased teacher, 709 00:45:44,000 --> 00:45:47,680 Speaker 1: just absolutely gorgeous, and she's standing with her then fiance 710 00:45:48,360 --> 00:45:52,640 Speaker 1: in front of the Eiffel Tower. They're kissing. I think 711 00:45:52,719 --> 00:45:56,200 Speaker 1: this may be an announcement of their engagement. They dated 712 00:45:56,719 --> 00:46:00,520 Speaker 1: for eight years and this whole thing blew is up 713 00:46:00,760 --> 00:46:03,799 Speaker 1: and he breaks it off. Somebody's got some money if 714 00:46:03,800 --> 00:46:07,320 Speaker 1: they're on a European tour. Okay, Nancy, and I remember 715 00:46:07,360 --> 00:46:10,840 Speaker 1: seeing photos of her at various events, and she was 716 00:46:10,880 --> 00:46:14,680 Speaker 1: wearing very expensive clothing, and according to one report, she 717 00:46:14,760 --> 00:46:19,120 Speaker 1: had a posh mark account where she was selling clothing 718 00:46:19,160 --> 00:46:22,600 Speaker 1: that she no longer wanted, and one post said that 719 00:46:22,640 --> 00:46:25,759 Speaker 1: she would sell everything for a million dollars. So I 720 00:46:25,760 --> 00:46:27,640 Speaker 1: don't know if that was tongue in cheek or she 721 00:46:27,719 --> 00:46:31,480 Speaker 1: was serious, but I thought this This thirty something year 722 00:46:31,480 --> 00:46:35,120 Speaker 1: old teacher now deceased, moved back in with her parents 723 00:46:35,719 --> 00:46:38,200 Speaker 1: when the wedding was called off, but had all of 724 00:46:38,239 --> 00:46:41,799 Speaker 1: this expensive clothing. Who was supplying all of this? She 725 00:46:41,960 --> 00:46:46,560 Speaker 1: a teacher cannot afford that kind of clothing. And what 726 00:46:46,680 --> 00:46:50,640 Speaker 1: kind of power and muscle is behind the jilted fiance? 727 00:46:51,360 --> 00:46:55,080 Speaker 1: And again from psychoanalytic perspective, somebody was obsessed with her, 728 00:46:55,160 --> 00:46:59,000 Speaker 1: somebody was stalking her. Wasn't somebody from the police department 729 00:46:59,040 --> 00:47:02,680 Speaker 1: because there was the soapen investigation. Wasn't the jilted lover. 730 00:47:02,920 --> 00:47:05,200 Speaker 1: Now they're saying that this was not a crime of passion, 731 00:47:05,680 --> 00:47:07,759 Speaker 1: which would lead me to believe it was not the 732 00:47:07,840 --> 00:47:11,800 Speaker 1: jilted lover, but perhaps something going on within the police department. 733 00:47:12,560 --> 00:47:18,480 Speaker 1: So the big goes on in the very convoluted investigation 734 00:47:18,600 --> 00:47:24,160 Speaker 1: into the death of this gorgeous young brunette teacher, Rachel Deltano. 735 00:47:24,400 --> 00:47:29,840 Speaker 1: This is what I know. Her family devastated. Alan de 736 00:47:30,120 --> 00:47:33,360 Speaker 1: We've been covering this so closely, and in the last hours, 737 00:47:33,920 --> 00:47:39,080 Speaker 1: Rachel's mother has actually spoken. What did she indicate whether 738 00:47:39,160 --> 00:47:43,520 Speaker 1: her daughter was afraid? Nancy Rachel's mother, in an interview 739 00:47:43,520 --> 00:47:46,319 Speaker 1: with the local paper, the Beaver County in says her 740 00:47:46,400 --> 00:47:50,359 Speaker 1: daughter was afraid of the local police. Quote. We knew 741 00:47:50,360 --> 00:47:54,040 Speaker 1: it was dirty. She says that police department has been 742 00:47:54,080 --> 00:47:58,520 Speaker 1: dirty for fifty years unquote. Also, Rachel herself told the 743 00:47:58,600 --> 00:48:02,400 Speaker 1: newspaper months earlier, or during the leaked police report scandal, 744 00:48:02,440 --> 00:48:05,480 Speaker 1: that she had been receiving death threats and was told 745 00:48:05,520 --> 00:48:09,399 Speaker 1: she wouldn't live to see the end of her mother, 746 00:48:09,600 --> 00:48:13,960 Speaker 1: Lisa Deltondo, says she heard of those threats firsthand. Rachel 747 00:48:14,160 --> 00:48:17,520 Speaker 1: reported the death threats to police two times. The mother 748 00:48:17,600 --> 00:48:20,680 Speaker 1: says she also called the police to report them, complaining 749 00:48:20,719 --> 00:48:24,200 Speaker 1: though that the local detective waited four days to call 750 00:48:24,280 --> 00:48:27,880 Speaker 1: her back, and she says Rachel was indeed in fear 751 00:48:27,920 --> 00:48:31,520 Speaker 1: from those death threats, quoting now, she was scared of everyone. 752 00:48:31,960 --> 00:48:35,440 Speaker 1: She was a scared rabbit. How do we know she 753 00:48:35,560 --> 00:48:38,480 Speaker 1: was really cooperating and was going to be a witness. 754 00:48:38,880 --> 00:48:41,719 Speaker 1: Lisa del Tondo says her daughter did agree to cooperate 755 00:48:41,719 --> 00:48:44,480 Speaker 1: with state investigators in their in their probe of the 756 00:48:44,480 --> 00:48:47,960 Speaker 1: police corruption allegations uh, and that she met with the 757 00:48:48,120 --> 00:48:52,400 Speaker 1: state investigators three times. But the mom says her daughter 758 00:48:52,520 --> 00:48:56,040 Speaker 1: was too afraid to tell them everything she knew, quoting 759 00:48:56,040 --> 00:49:00,080 Speaker 1: now she knew a lot more. She was worried. The 760 00:49:00,120 --> 00:49:03,200 Speaker 1: mom says she didn't know about a grand jury subpoena, 761 00:49:03,680 --> 00:49:05,959 Speaker 1: and she thinks she would have known if that was true. Though, 762 00:49:06,400 --> 00:49:09,400 Speaker 1: Rachel Deltado's mother does not believe her daughter's death was 763 00:49:09,440 --> 00:49:13,040 Speaker 1: a direct result of any government corruption, but she does 764 00:49:13,120 --> 00:49:16,880 Speaker 1: think that the police leak helped fan flames of passion 765 00:49:17,280 --> 00:49:22,440 Speaker 1: which had eventually led to her daughter's murder. You know, Alan, 766 00:49:22,880 --> 00:49:25,640 Speaker 1: I bet the mom and dad haven't even had a 767 00:49:25,760 --> 00:49:29,319 Speaker 1: chance to grieve their daughter's shooting death with all of 768 00:49:29,360 --> 00:49:36,799 Speaker 1: this ruckous surrounding her murder. Nancy Grace Crime Stories signing off, 769 00:49:37,320 --> 00:49:46,640 Speaker 1: goodbye friend. Did you know a recent law can leave 770 00:49:46,719 --> 00:49:51,680 Speaker 1: your personal data exposed online for anybody to find If 771 00:49:51,719 --> 00:49:54,120 Speaker 1: you've turned all the news lately, you know the Internet 772 00:49:54,160 --> 00:49:57,760 Speaker 1: has created a dangerous new world. It's time you take 773 00:49:57,880 --> 00:50:01,360 Speaker 1: back the power by using a new website called truth Finder. 774 00:50:01,840 --> 00:50:04,480 Speaker 1: Have you been issued a speeding ticket, received a lean 775 00:50:04,520 --> 00:50:07,640 Speaker 1: from the I R S? Did you forget about embarrassing 776 00:50:07,680 --> 00:50:12,520 Speaker 1: social media profile? That info may already be online. Truth 777 00:50:12,600 --> 00:50:16,280 Speaker 1: Finder can help you find it. Truth Finder searches millions 778 00:50:16,280 --> 00:50:20,160 Speaker 1: of public records, assembling the data together in one report. 779 00:50:20,680 --> 00:50:24,160 Speaker 1: Members get unlimited searches, so you can also look up 780 00:50:24,160 --> 00:50:27,640 Speaker 1: those close to you and make sure they're not hiding something. 781 00:50:28,160 --> 00:50:32,040 Speaker 1: Visit truth finder dot com slash nancy, enter your own name, 782 00:50:32,280 --> 00:50:32,960 Speaker 1: get started.