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Speaker 1: From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is

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Speaker 1: riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or

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Speaker 1: learn the stuff they don't want you to know. A

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Speaker 1: production of iHeart Radio.

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Speaker 2: Ahoy, welcome back to the show. My name is Matt,

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Speaker 2: my name is Nola.

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Speaker 3: They call me Ben. We're joined as always with our

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Speaker 3: super producer Dylan the Tennessee pal Fagan. Most importantly, you argue,

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Speaker 3: you are here. That makes this the stuff they don't

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Speaker 3: want you to know.

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Speaker 4: Ah.

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Speaker 3: We're returning to the seas as the wide world of

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Speaker 3: cargo shipping. Guys, do you remember several years ago when

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Speaker 3: we learned that you can travel the world as a

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Speaker 3: passenger on cargo ships.

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Speaker 2: Yes, And we talked about the varying ways you could

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Speaker 2: end up in that position, some legal, some above board,

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Speaker 2: if you will.

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Speaker 3: Yes, some above deck for sure, the catches. Even if

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Speaker 3: you're traveling legally, you have to be flexible with your

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Speaker 3: arrival dates. So you want to leave, uh, you want

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Speaker 3: to leave Los Angeles and you want to get to

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Speaker 3: Hong Kong. You can get there, you know, as long

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Speaker 3: as you have a three month window of arrival.

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Speaker 2: Those these boys are big, These cargo ships and they

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Speaker 2: don't go that fast.

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Speaker 3: No, they don't. And they're pooping pollutants through the sea

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Speaker 3: the entire time, and.

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Speaker 2: They're holding a lot of poop in there too, and.

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Speaker 3: They're holding a lot I think a lot of times

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Speaker 3: they flush it.

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Speaker 4: Yeah. Have you heard about this documentary on Netflix called

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Speaker 4: Poop Cruise?

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Speaker 2: Watched it right before we went on the cruise.

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Speaker 4: Actually, what was that, like, why would you do that

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Speaker 4: to yourself? Your button for punishments?

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Speaker 2: It was it was a fact finding mission. You know,

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Speaker 2: it happened a long time ago, and certainly not with

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Speaker 2: the folks we sailed.

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Speaker 3: With, that's right. Yeah, our aut obsessions aside. Though the

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Speaker 3: world literally does run on maritime shipping. There's this byzantine

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Speaker 3: complex set of international laws and regulations keeping stuff on

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Speaker 3: the up and up or as we said above deck

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Speaker 3: across the seas. If you are running any international vessel,

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Speaker 3: you have insurance, you have transponders, you have legal status,

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Speaker 3: you got two different kinds of special flags or insigns.

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Speaker 3: You got a record of the crap you're moving from

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Speaker 3: point A to point Z. Except when you don't have

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Speaker 3: most of those things.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, this is the story.

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Speaker 4: This is the story.

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Speaker 3: We can't wait to share with you folks of Russia's

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Speaker 3: shadow fleet. Ah, here are the.

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Speaker 2: Facts, guys, get before we even get into it. I

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Speaker 2: really didn't think that much about insurance on vessels like

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Speaker 2: this until this story, Like, until we're covering this, I

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Speaker 2: didn't think about it. I didn't realize how expensive it

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Speaker 2: is to ensure all the stuff you could take on

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Speaker 2: one of those tankers or one of these giant ships.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it's a big deal, and it's a big deal

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Speaker 3: for hundreds of thousands of vessels, just like cars. There

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Speaker 3: are around one hundred thousand loosely categorized merchant ships around

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Speaker 3: the world, so that doesn't count canoes, kayaks, Kevin Costner's

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Speaker 3: catamaran from water World, and other smaller stuff.

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Speaker 4: Kevin Costner's catamaran. That's fun to.

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Speaker 3: Say, that's our new tongue twister, right, Kevin Costers catamarant

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Speaker 3: We need another clause.

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Speaker 2: Or repeas on the ship and he drinks it up.

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Speaker 3: You've got blood, tomato, wood, tomato wood, tomato. Okay, so

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Speaker 3: you are going to workshop our amazing new water World

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Speaker 3: tribute song, which it cats into it. We know that

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Speaker 3: of those one hundred thousand or so estimated merchant ships

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Speaker 3: about fifty thousand to sixty thousand are big dogs, tankers,

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Speaker 3: cargo ships. And if you are listening to this episode

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Speaker 3: and you are human being in the modern era as

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Speaker 3: we record on Monday, November twenty fourth, twenty twenty five,

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Speaker 3: you have purchased something that spent time on a cargo ship,

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Speaker 3: or you have manufactured something that spent time on one

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Speaker 3: of these vessels, or you have acquired something even unknowingly

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Speaker 3: that traveled to you via the massive maritime trade system.

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Speaker 3: What are we say in here?

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Speaker 2: We're saying that we've we right now, I personally vastly

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Speaker 2: underestimate the number of goods that I've purchased that came

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Speaker 2: over own a ship like that. Like that, I you

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Speaker 2: imagine that stuff comes from nearby a bit because it

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Speaker 2: got here so fast Amazon Prime.

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Speaker 4: Wow.

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Speaker 2: But that's just because they store all the crap that

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Speaker 2: comes over on the ships in strategic places throughout the

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Speaker 2: United States.

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Speaker 3: If you live in the US, yeah, yeah, they carry

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Speaker 3: a lot of stuff. Picture something it probably a version

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Speaker 3: of it traveled to you via cargo ship. As of

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Speaker 3: October twenty twenty four, just last year, nearly forty percent

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Speaker 3: of all that stuff carried across the globe via the

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Speaker 3: seas is going to be fossil fuels. Forty percent of

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Speaker 3: global maritime trade oil gas and yeah, coal still a

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Speaker 3: big business.

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Speaker 2: That's astonishing considering how many cargo ships are out there

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Speaker 2: and how large they are and how much stuff they carry.

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Speaker 2: Like when you just when you look at those containers,

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Speaker 2: you know, if you're anywhere near a port like that,

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Speaker 2: knowing that forty percent of all of that stuff gas, Sorry,

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Speaker 2: that's mind blowing, I.

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Speaker 3: Mean, right. And also it's a tricky number because if

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Speaker 3: we're really thinking it through, we also have to consider

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Speaker 3: how much fossil fuel those ships themselves digest. Oh you

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Speaker 3: know what I mean? So is how much of that

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Speaker 3: forty percent is just their individual gas tanks. I don't know.

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Speaker 3: It's a question for another evening, but it is a

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Speaker 3: big business. That's an understatement. It's also understatement to call

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Speaker 3: it complicated. This global system relies on an army of

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Speaker 3: merchant marines, ship crews, insurers, as we'll get to, shipbuilders, ports,

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Speaker 3: production facilities, of course, lawyers, countries of origin or more importantly,

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Speaker 3: countries of registration, and then obviously the consumers. And I'd

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Speaker 3: love that point we're bringing up here. You probably don't

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Speaker 3: see it, folks, unless you work in a related industry

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Speaker 3: where you spend time at sea, or you live near

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Speaker 3: a port, right, you probably don't see this behemoth in action.

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Speaker 3: And maybe we talked a little bit about our time,

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Speaker 3: you know, on a recent virgin voyage we alluded to earlier.

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Speaker 3: I don't know about you, guys, but I assume we

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Speaker 3: were all startled to learn how many cargo vessels are

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Speaker 3: out there, and how many of the folks we met

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Speaker 3: working on our voyage spent time on one of these

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Speaker 3: transit ships or merchant vessels at some point in their career.

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Speaker 2: Oh yeah, that's very surprising. Well, but at the same time, like,

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Speaker 2: how else do you get experience on a large vessel

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Speaker 2: like that unless you're in a naval force of some kind, right,

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Speaker 2: I mean, that's those are kind of your options. You've got.

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Speaker 2: You've got a merchant vessel like that, is a cargo ship,

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Speaker 2: You've got a cruise liner, or a naval ship. Is

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Speaker 2: there is there something other? I guess a fishing vessel.

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Speaker 3: Well, usually, like the captains we spoke to the captain

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Speaker 3: and the deputy captain, they originate from countries that have

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Speaker 3: maritime colleges, gotcha, proper universities basically for the stuff that

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Speaker 3: teaches you to wait, let's name it off again, teaches

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Speaker 3: you to pilot a ship, run a ship, be a firefighter,

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Speaker 3: have EMT training, and then also low key, although they

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Speaker 3: didn't say it explicitly, do law enforcement if you have to.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and potentially defend the ship from pirrating, which is

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Speaker 2: a real thing still.

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Speaker 3: Which they told us about too. I mean, the crews

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Speaker 3: of these ships cr E w wes come from all

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Speaker 3: over and all sorts of countries also fly their flags

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Speaker 3: on various vessels. We got to talk a little bit

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Speaker 3: about the what's word vexillology here flags on ships or ensigns,

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Speaker 3: which for a while I thought was just the rule

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Speaker 3: of someone on star Trek on the bridge of star.

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Speaker 4: Trek and an insignt Yes, of course, vexillology. Indeed, flags

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Speaker 4: on ships to your point, been referred to as ensigns

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Speaker 4: play a very important role in identifying, communicating, offering communication

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Speaker 4: between various vessels and port authorities, shore stations, as well

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Speaker 4: as signifying if the ship adheres to certain rules of

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Speaker 4: the sea or maritime regulations. And these things can tell

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Speaker 4: you a lot about a particular ship, including the set

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Speaker 4: of rules that they follow. Each and every vessel sailing

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Speaker 4: under the flag of a nation is bound to the

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Speaker 4: maritime rules of that particular country. And this also represents

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Speaker 4: where a ship is legally registered. But to be clear here,

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Speaker 4: that may not in fact be where the ship was

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Speaker 4: originally built, nor may it represent the actual origin country.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, the gang signs on the high seas. But what

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Speaker 3: are you repping? Man? Huh? You REPI upon because you

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Speaker 3: look Russian to me. Anyways, a little bit of foreshadowing.

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Speaker 3: Don't fall asleep yet, folks. We promise this is not

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Speaker 3: just an episode about vexillology or insurance, at least not really. Instead,

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Speaker 3: it's an exploration of what happens when someone hacks this

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Speaker 3: Labyriantine system for arguably nefarious purpose. Did you guys ever

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Speaker 3: go through that phase? It happens to a lot of

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Speaker 3: kids in the West growing up where you wanted to

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Speaker 3: be a pirate. Anybody have that phase? Of course? One?

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Speaker 4: Well no, but I mean I went through it. I

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Speaker 4: was fast. I think I like the dread pirate Roberts.

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Speaker 3: Oh, Princess Bride, Yeah, yeah, I could see you doing that. Man,

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Speaker 3: we just got to get a sick Zoro mask and.

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Speaker 4: She's a dapper fellow. That's for sure. You got Zoro mask.

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Speaker 4: The bit of the bandana situation, that's what it is.

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Speaker 4: It's a bandana with like eye holes in it kind

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Speaker 4: of right.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's like if Daredevil Season one could see.

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Speaker 2: We'll see now. In my case, I think I saw

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Speaker 2: the movie Hook too early in my life. Yeah, and

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Speaker 2: then I just I saw Pirates as bad, very very bad,

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Speaker 2: and lost boys good or Ruvio good. Hook for a

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Speaker 2: Hand bad. So I think maybe I just I lost.

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Speaker 2: I didn't want to be a pirate.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm with you guys there. On that note, I

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Speaker 3: with a longstanding aversion to jewelry, instruments of iron and

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Speaker 3: so on. I thought, I thought I just wouldn't be

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Speaker 3: cut out for the life of piracy because Privateer, you're

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Speaker 3: still kind of on the books. But Pirates, at least

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Speaker 3: per an interview with Morgan Freeman had to have gold

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Speaker 3: ear rings so that there would be some sort of

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Speaker 3: payment that could be used for their proper burial. That

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Speaker 3: is from an interview where he explains why he has

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Speaker 3: a ear ring.

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Speaker 4: Okay, I didn't know that, Yeah.

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Speaker 3: Well, we weren't able to consult with Morgan on this

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Speaker 3: one't but we we think he approves and I think

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Speaker 3: he is probably very pro pirate. We'd love to hear

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Speaker 3: about your experiences with piracy. Boy, that's opening a door.

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Speaker 4: My only experience with piracy is like downloading episodes of

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Speaker 4: the Sopranos illegally and getting a cease and desist from HBO.

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Speaker 3: Oh you got a CND early on.

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Speaker 2: Oh man, how much nowadays would those earrings have to

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Speaker 2: cost to actually cover the cost of a funeral?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it was a different time. Check Out our epis

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Speaker 3: weirdly solemn on that one. Check Out our episode on

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Speaker 3: the funeral industry as well. Wasn't expected to bring that

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Speaker 3: one up, but yeah, the cost of skyrocketing. And it's

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Speaker 3: weird because the dawn of modern maritime law is pretty

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Speaker 3: murky because it's a study in competition. It's a study

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Speaker 3: in a lot of people saying rules for thee but

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Speaker 3: not for me, and various groups. Ever since we arrived

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Speaker 3: at what we call modern maritime law today, various groups

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Speaker 3: have conspired to bypass the global order for one reason

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Speaker 3: or another. The top three reasons are usually going to

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Speaker 3: be war or making a profit making some pirate coins,

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Speaker 3: some smugglers coin, or avoiding sanctions, et cetera. There are

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Speaker 3: those top three, there are other ones.

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Speaker 2: The avoiding sanctions one comes into play in this episode.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, pretty high, pretty heavy. That's because there's one country

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Speaker 3: that keeps popping up again and again, as Cindi Lauper

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Speaker 3: would say, time after time in these investigations, and that

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Speaker 3: country is Russia. Other countries have been in the conversation before,

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Speaker 3: but Russia right now has a collapsing economy, it has

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Speaker 3: troubles with Wagner and other proxy groups that it's deployed

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Speaker 3: in its spheres of interest. I really dropped the ball

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Speaker 3: in the Middle East. There's a war in Ukraine, and

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Speaker 3: Russia is still very much despite all these issues. It's

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Speaker 3: a fossil fuel leviathan. It's got a lot of stuff

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Speaker 3: to sell. It has been sanctioned repeatedly up the wazoo,

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Speaker 3: and if Russia is stuck to legal actions, they'd be

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Speaker 3: in a tight spot. They'd be unable to do business

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Speaker 3: with loads of ordinarily energy hungry countries, some of whom

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Speaker 3: may surprise you folks as we continue. But the thing

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Speaker 3: is that is only if they stuck to legal actions,

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Speaker 3: and they are not. Russia has a ghost.

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Speaker 2: Fleet, ghost fleet, shadow fleet aka yeah, shadowy, ghostly, sneaky boys.

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Speaker 3: Sneaky boys. As we're talking offlide, let's do a quick

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Speaker 3: ad break and figure out what we're talking about. Here's

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Speaker 3: where it gets crazy, all right, Russia has a ghost fleet.

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Speaker 3: You'll also hear it called the Russian shadow Fleet. You'll

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Speaker 3: also hear it called the dark Fleet. These are three

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Speaker 3: very cool names. These names are so falcon. I wish

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Speaker 3: I had an operation that we could call a shadow fleet.

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Speaker 3: I wish one of us did well.

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Speaker 2: And to be fair, it is kind of a cooler

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Speaker 2: name even than the thing that they're doing.

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Speaker 3: Oh yeah, oh it's so much cooler. It's like that

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Speaker 3: scene and I think you should leave now where the

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Speaker 3: one with a baby where he talks about it, the

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Speaker 3: protagonist talks about his Dangerous Night's Crew and that tour.

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Speaker 4: Are sloppy steaks Matthew, And do you know that Dangerous

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Speaker 4: Night's song is Vampire Weekend?

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Speaker 3: I only know because I looked it up.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, they did it, and they performed it live recently

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Speaker 4: at a show at the Hollywood Ball and Tim came out.

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Speaker 4: And also there's another one that that Ben Turnstile did.

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Speaker 4: They've had a handful of like weird songs that bands did.

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Speaker 3: I love also the best singing eulogy in the history

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Speaker 3: of modern television.

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Speaker 4: They're talking about thinking that we Okay, by the way,

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Speaker 4: freaking banger, my goodness, my gracious. If you're into conspiracy

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Speaker 4: stuff but aren't afraid of some inn SFW content, I

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Speaker 4: do highly recommended us. I think we all, I think

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Speaker 4: we're all.

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Speaker 3: We've all got eyes on that we're read onto the

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Speaker 3: operation Chair Company, which, by the way, scuttle Butt says,

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Speaker 3: just scored a season renewal, so season two of Chair Companies.

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Speaker 4: It's been making some buzz, been making some waves to

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Speaker 4: segue back into pirate stuff.

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Speaker 2: Look, I'm going to show you guys some videos. Don't

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Speaker 2: ask any questions about the tables. Okay, don't talk about

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Speaker 2: the tables. All right, here we go.

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Speaker 4: It's the tables.

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Speaker 3: Yeah. This is weirdly apropos to the conspiracy at hands

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Speaker 3: right or at Tentacle, because the Shadow Fleet, ghostly, dark fleet,

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Speaker 3: whatever you want to call it, it is a clandestine

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Speaker 3: or open secret network of hundreds upon hundreds of vessels

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Speaker 3: that Russia currently uses to evade the law sanctions and

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Speaker 3: price caps imposed back in twenty twenty two by the

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Speaker 3: G seven and the EU. Essentially, Russia invaded Ukraine their

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Speaker 3: most recent invasion of Ukraine, and the West said, Okay,

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Speaker 3: we want to dictate how much energy Russia can sell

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Speaker 3: to whom it can be sold, and how much this

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Speaker 3: country is allowed to charge. And so Russia responded by

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Speaker 3: making a whole secret smuggling navy. It's pretty ballsy move,

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Speaker 3: but it's it's not original, right, because smuggling is as

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Speaker 3: old as like the second sailboat.

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Speaker 2: Uh yeah, what about the.

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Speaker 3: Okay, I love that first men. Yeah, first sailboat is official,

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Speaker 3: and the second sailboat is like, I'll move your grain. Uh,

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Speaker 3: pirates travel off the grid. I mean basically, at every

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Speaker 3: point in maritime legal history, somebody has been breaking the rules.

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Speaker 2: It reminds me, guys, all of this, this entire topic

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Speaker 2: reminds me of the episodes we've done before when Russia

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Speaker 2: annexed Crimea and just needing ports. Right, And I'm just

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Speaker 2: thinking again about if you look at Russia on a map,

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Speaker 2: you realize, oh crap, the only real ports that they've

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Speaker 2: got that make any sense to sail out of for

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Speaker 2: this kind of stuff that they're trying to do here

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Speaker 2: are so far flung from other places that they're trying

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Speaker 2: to get to that shipping for them is a major issue.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, all weather ports they're called, which is part of

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Speaker 3: why they put so much TLC into Syria because of

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Speaker 3: the Tartar support.

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Speaker 2: Yes, and the Black Sea there where is located and

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Speaker 2: just ways to get stuff moved that is a little

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Speaker 2: easier than sending it on these ships that go through

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Speaker 2: places where especially if they're sanctions being imposed, it's not

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Speaker 2: safe for those ships to go.

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Speaker 3: No, they will get smacked, they will get clocked. There's

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Speaker 3: also a lot of controversy when it comes to the

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Speaker 3: idea of breaking the rules. There's a lot of controversy

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Speaker 3: around who makes the rules and who has the authority

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Speaker 3: to stand there and dictate to everybody else, I mean,

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Speaker 3: whatever you want to call. These fleets tail as old

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Speaker 3: as time. They smuggle sanctioned goods, and we can make

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Speaker 3: a strong case that some more sophistic gated drug cartels

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Speaker 3: in the past possessed small shadow fleets, homemade subs relationships

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Speaker 3: with the US Coast Guard. Little Skippy does right, They

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Speaker 3: can get around.

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Speaker 2: The smaller fast ships that now we're watching get blown

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Speaker 2: out of the water right by the United States government,

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Speaker 2: and you're just going, what is happening?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, as Uncle Sam gears toward resource extraction and hamping

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Speaker 3: down the democratic process by enacting a war of aggression,

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Speaker 3: by the way, against Venezuela, which is not a huge

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Speaker 3: drug trafficker, I'm walking down the street for that point.

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Speaker 3: But if you really try to stop drugs, Venezuela is

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Speaker 3: a non choice.

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Speaker 2: That's the route, right, That's all it is. Venezuela is

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Speaker 2: the route or part of the route.

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Speaker 3: Or yeah, transit country or whatever. But at that point

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Speaker 3: you might as well just crack down on Guatemala nineteen

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Speaker 3: fifty four all over again. We know other energy giants

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Speaker 3: that are not part of the or not friendly to

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Speaker 3: the Western World order. Even if you think the Western

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Speaker 3: World Order is a bunch of mean girls, which is

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Speaker 3: not inaccurate. You see places like Iran, North Korea, and

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Speaker 3: Venezuela deploying this shadow fleet tactic. In the past, Iran

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Speaker 3: and Venezuela are mainly going to be trying to bypass

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Speaker 3: economic sanctions to sell bubbling crude. In the DPRS case,

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Speaker 3: they're going to try to sell other contraband.

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Speaker 2: Also which which I don't even know what that would be, genuinely.

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Speaker 3: Supernotes, the counterfeit US dollars of I think one hundred

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Speaker 3: dollars denominations that are actually identifiable because they're of a

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Speaker 3: higher quality than actual US one hundred dollars bills. And

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Speaker 3: then methamphetamine. It's a big thing, easy to process or

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Speaker 3: easy to create. And then in some cases we suspect

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Speaker 3: maybe touches on nuclear it maybe components that would lend

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Speaker 3: to nuclear proliferation. Oh wow, okay, yeah, so touchy, touchy stuff.

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Speaker 3: But Russia is watching all this, and every I mean

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Speaker 3: every big dog country is watching this. And you know,

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Speaker 3: they may in public say, oh this is bad. Oh

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Speaker 3: these guys you know whatever that is where you like

359
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Speaker 3: scrape your finger at someone and you're like, tisks, Yeah,

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Speaker 3: all of them are doing that. But behind closed doors,

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Speaker 3: they're say, let's figure out this tactic, you know, without

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Speaker 3: condoning it. If we're in a situation, isn't it better

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Speaker 3: for us to know what to do. Russia had that conversation.

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Speaker 3: They played close attention, and they knew that sanctions would

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Speaker 3: be crippling because their economy depended and depends so heavily

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Speaker 3: on energy exports, and there are very few ways to

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Speaker 3: efficiently get that energy export to consumers. You got what

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Speaker 3: you got pipelines which are stationary, easily identifiable, and easily

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Speaker 3: fused with. And then you got a few ports that

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Speaker 3: work the whole year, and they got more ports that

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Speaker 3: work when the weather complies.

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Speaker 2: It's pretty intense. That's a sticky situation to be in,

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Speaker 2: like knowing how de pendant they are on that stuff,

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Speaker 2: and then just how difficult it is and how easily

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Speaker 2: it could be squeezed right by some other group, like

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Speaker 2: you said, like in the West, it just decides, hey,

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Speaker 2: these are the new rules. And you know it's tough

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Speaker 2: when you put yourself in that position of well, how

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Speaker 2: do we actually get around this? If you are in

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Speaker 2: that position trying to figure it out, I would say

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Speaker 2: this strategy seems like it wouldn't work very well because

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Speaker 2: the ships would get just picked up. But the little

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Speaker 2: add on, the addendum to it of making it hundreds

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Speaker 2: of ships rather than just a few dozen ships doing this.

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Speaker 2: Now we're gonna put hundreds of them, so no matter

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Speaker 2: how many of them get caught, we are still getting

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Speaker 2: through what seventy percent or more of our ships.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and we're selling to people who are not part

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Speaker 3: of that price cap agreement, so we can dictate the price,

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Speaker 3: or we could get in a tough situation where we're

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Speaker 3: moving stuff illegally. Kind of like when there's an imperfect analogy,

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Speaker 3: but kind of like when you need a bicycle and

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Speaker 3: a crackhead comes up to you with a bicycle that's

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Speaker 3: clearly not theirs, but it's a three hundred and fifty

395
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Speaker 3: dollars bicycle, but they're going to give it to you

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Speaker 3: for fifty bucks, oh snap, and a cigarette, a loose cigarette.

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Speaker 3: So the price is variable here, which comes into the

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Speaker 3: Grand conspiracy. The leaders of pretty much every country, ethics

399
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Speaker 3: and public figureheads aside, the true leadership of a country

400
00:25:13,960 --> 00:25:16,720
Speaker 3: is quite intelligent and simply does not get to that

401
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Speaker 3: level without being so. So they knew before, probably even

402
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Speaker 3: while they were game planning the invasion of Ukraine, their

403
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Speaker 3: analysts predicted actually no, for a fact, they predicted sanctions,

404
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Speaker 3: and they said, we got to get in front of this.

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Speaker 3: And so if you go to folks like Alexi Horowitz

406
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Speaker 3: Gazi from Planet Money, who also spoke in an MPR

407
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Speaker 3: interview recently, Russia put the equivalent of fifteen billion US

408
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Speaker 3: dollars into building this new secret navy for all intents

409
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Speaker 3: and purposes, because they're thirstiest customers in China, Turkey, and Germany, okay,

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Speaker 3: and Russia wants to feed these folks. Germany has some

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Speaker 3: has ports, right, so you could just scoop the dupe

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Speaker 3: from one part of Russia, send a ship to that

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Speaker 3: port in Germany, or you could try to go through

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Speaker 3: a pipeline that would be heavily monitored by the EU,

415
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Speaker 3: who is super duper mad at you, right, So the

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Speaker 3: China doesn't really care about that. Turkey is right there

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Speaker 3: with the Bosphorus, you know, so you can circumvent the

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Speaker 3: EU essentially with that. So they began quietly purchasing loads

419
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Speaker 3: and loads of retired oil tankers. We gotta emphasize this.

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Speaker 3: These are not the primo ships. These are not the

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Speaker 3: nice cars in the front of the dealership parking lot. No.

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Speaker 4: In fact, quite the opposite. If Russia hadn't intervened, the

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Speaker 4: vast majority of these ships would have ended up scrapped.

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Speaker 4: You know, for parts pretty much all of them are

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Speaker 4: outdated model. Most of them needed significant repairs and maintenance,

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Speaker 4: and some were pretty much inoperable, you know, the kinds

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Speaker 4: of ones that would be put out to.

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Speaker 2: Pasture and we're gonna put a ton of oil in them.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, there are their last legs.

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Speaker 4: Well, we know how fleets like that work. I mean,

431
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Speaker 4: they're expensive. You look at airplanes and you wonder, why

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Speaker 4: do the planes that you're you know, flying and still

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Speaker 4: have ash trays. It's because, like, to replace these things

434
00:27:29,200 --> 00:27:32,520
Speaker 4: in their entirety is prohibitively expensive. So you know, when

435
00:27:32,520 --> 00:27:34,760
Speaker 4: you have a giant fleet like that, you're gonna you know,

436
00:27:34,880 --> 00:27:37,960
Speaker 4: ride them till the wheels or the whatever, the rudders

437
00:27:38,040 --> 00:27:39,640
Speaker 4: or the wings fall off. M hmm.

438
00:27:39,800 --> 00:27:42,879
Speaker 3: Yeah, And that's just an that's an economic decision, but

439
00:27:42,960 --> 00:27:46,879
Speaker 3: you do want them to see worthy. Ro Russia is saying, look,

440
00:27:47,400 --> 00:27:49,639
Speaker 3: if these are on their last legs, but if we

441
00:27:49,720 --> 00:27:53,679
Speaker 3: don't do something, our entire economy is going to be

442
00:27:53,720 --> 00:27:58,440
Speaker 3: on its last legs. And so Russia helps facilitate these

443
00:27:58,480 --> 00:28:03,679
Speaker 3: purchases and repair, often through proxies. Because modern Russia is

444
00:28:03,760 --> 00:28:07,200
Speaker 3: pretty much a kleptocracy. It's run by thieves, right, and

445
00:28:07,320 --> 00:28:11,000
Speaker 3: so Russian energy companies and more than a few quote

446
00:28:11,080 --> 00:28:16,840
Speaker 3: unquote entrepreneurs rent these out after they're renovated and retrofitted

447
00:28:17,240 --> 00:28:21,760
Speaker 3: at exorbitant fees to keep the energy trade flowing. The

448
00:28:21,880 --> 00:28:28,440
Speaker 3: exorbitant fees is interesting because who are they charging ultimately themselves?

449
00:28:28,720 --> 00:28:31,160
Speaker 3: The money is moving in a circular fashion.

450
00:28:31,680 --> 00:28:35,119
Speaker 2: Oh that sounds familiar. Something else we were just talking about. Hmmm,

451
00:28:35,200 --> 00:28:35,800
Speaker 2: what was that?

452
00:28:36,560 --> 00:28:36,919
Speaker 1: AI?

453
00:28:37,320 --> 00:28:39,800
Speaker 3: Oh that's right, I was going to say, the global economy.

454
00:28:40,800 --> 00:28:42,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly, AI for sure though.

455
00:28:42,760 --> 00:28:45,040
Speaker 3: Ooh, that's going to bite bite some people in their

456
00:28:45,120 --> 00:28:45,840
Speaker 3: human butts.

457
00:28:46,200 --> 00:28:49,080
Speaker 2: But all right, do we talk about how most of

458
00:28:49,120 --> 00:28:51,880
Speaker 2: these have come not? I guess it is most of

459
00:28:51,920 --> 00:28:53,000
Speaker 2: them come from Greece.

460
00:28:53,800 --> 00:28:59,400
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, yeah. So there's this global trade in beater tankers.

461
00:28:59,520 --> 00:29:03,440
Speaker 4: It boom, there's beeter tankers.

462
00:29:03,480 --> 00:29:08,000
Speaker 3: There's this huge price bike and several other countries, notably Greece,

463
00:29:08,400 --> 00:29:12,719
Speaker 3: make a killing selling what was honestly gonna be it

464
00:29:12,800 --> 00:29:15,800
Speaker 3: was soon to be sea garbage for a quick illicit

465
00:29:15,920 --> 00:29:20,400
Speaker 3: glow up of repairs and new operations. If you will

466
00:29:20,480 --> 00:29:23,520
Speaker 3: anthropomorphize a bit, if you're a tanker that Greece is

467
00:29:23,520 --> 00:29:28,120
Speaker 3: about to throw away, perhaps to those horrifying ship breaking

468
00:29:28,200 --> 00:29:33,120
Speaker 3: yards in India, then this is a new life for you.

469
00:29:33,120 --> 00:29:36,280
Speaker 3: You've got a new daddy, and he's not gonna put

470
00:29:36,280 --> 00:29:38,400
Speaker 3: you in the best house. He's not gonna fix all

471
00:29:38,440 --> 00:29:41,160
Speaker 3: your problems, but he'll fix a lot of them, and boom,

472
00:29:41,240 --> 00:29:45,880
Speaker 3: you're back in the game kind of. And so we

473
00:29:45,920 --> 00:29:49,040
Speaker 3: know by the end of twenty twenty two, again the

474
00:29:49,360 --> 00:29:53,480
Speaker 3: price cap sanctioned stuff started by the West in twenty

475
00:29:53,520 --> 00:29:56,840
Speaker 3: twenty two. By the end of that same year, Russia

476
00:29:56,920 --> 00:30:02,080
Speaker 3: had built a practical navy of these ships. Authorities looking

477
00:30:02,120 --> 00:30:07,719
Speaker 3: back estimate that Russia had over six hundred ships as

478
00:30:07,800 --> 00:30:10,360
Speaker 3: part of this shadow fleet or ghost fleet by the

479
00:30:10,520 --> 00:30:14,680
Speaker 3: end that calendar year, and of those six hundred, four

480
00:30:14,800 --> 00:30:18,440
Speaker 3: hundred were renovated tankers. And they didn't stop there.

481
00:30:18,600 --> 00:30:20,680
Speaker 4: Yeah, by December of twenty twenty three, that number had

482
00:30:20,760 --> 00:30:24,280
Speaker 4: risen somewhere between two somewhere rather between eleven hundred and

483
00:30:24,440 --> 00:30:28,920
Speaker 4: fourteen hundred ships. Some recent estimates posit that the fleet

484
00:30:29,000 --> 00:30:32,080
Speaker 4: has more than tripled in size since the beginning of

485
00:30:32,120 --> 00:30:35,400
Speaker 4: that operation. So Ben Matt, I guess this begs the

486
00:30:35,480 --> 00:30:38,360
Speaker 4: question or up to this point, like what doth the

487
00:30:38,400 --> 00:30:42,000
Speaker 4: shadow fleet make? What makes a shadow ship a shadow fleet?

488
00:30:42,560 --> 00:30:44,000
Speaker 4: You'd love to go into that a little bit and

489
00:30:44,040 --> 00:30:47,120
Speaker 4: talk about some maybe the defining key factors, all of

490
00:30:47,160 --> 00:30:50,760
Speaker 4: which I do believe tick some of our conspiracy boxes.

491
00:30:51,480 --> 00:30:54,920
Speaker 3: They do tick the conspiracy boxes. First, let's go back

492
00:30:54,920 --> 00:30:58,440
Speaker 3: to something Matt set up so beautifully in the beginning.

493
00:30:58,920 --> 00:31:05,800
Speaker 3: Marid ensuresurance. Every Western country has a minimum threshold for insurance,

494
00:31:05,840 --> 00:31:09,320
Speaker 3: and it includes stuff like verifying the condition of the

495
00:31:09,360 --> 00:31:12,000
Speaker 3: actual ship in a lot of ways, all right, without

496
00:31:12,000 --> 00:31:15,600
Speaker 3: getting into the weeds, right or the shallow waters here,

497
00:31:15,800 --> 00:31:18,040
Speaker 3: in a lot of ways. It's like owning a car.

498
00:31:18,440 --> 00:31:20,720
Speaker 3: You can totally own a car, at least in the

499
00:31:20,760 --> 00:31:24,480
Speaker 3: States without insurance, but you can't drive it anywhere.

500
00:31:25,040 --> 00:31:30,080
Speaker 5: Why would that be because you might hit someone, right,

501
00:31:29,640 --> 00:31:33,480
Speaker 5: you might do a sick donut in the middle of

502
00:31:33,520 --> 00:31:35,680
Speaker 5: traffic because you felt the call of the void.

503
00:31:36,120 --> 00:31:40,280
Speaker 3: And now what happens to everybody else impacted by your actions?

504
00:31:40,880 --> 00:31:45,719
Speaker 3: So you got to have insurance. And we're you know,

505
00:31:45,800 --> 00:31:49,880
Speaker 3: we have our standing statements about things like health insurance

506
00:31:50,120 --> 00:31:53,560
Speaker 3: in developed countries or in the United States. But we

507
00:31:54,120 --> 00:31:56,560
Speaker 3: I think we can all agree driving is a privilege,

508
00:31:56,640 --> 00:31:59,160
Speaker 3: not a right. Yes, so it makes sense that you

509
00:31:59,200 --> 00:32:02,560
Speaker 3: would have to make sure you don't ruin other people's

510
00:32:02,680 --> 00:32:06,360
Speaker 3: lives because you're trying to take a left on krog,

511
00:32:06,920 --> 00:32:11,560
Speaker 3: which is a specific reference for a very few people

512
00:32:11,560 --> 00:32:12,160
Speaker 3: in Atlanta.

513
00:32:12,600 --> 00:32:15,640
Speaker 2: Yeah. And so when it comes to cargo ships, you're

514
00:32:15,720 --> 00:32:19,600
Speaker 2: ensuring your cargo, right, and like you said, everybody else

515
00:32:19,640 --> 00:32:23,480
Speaker 2: around you and these ships specifically, you're ensuring most of

516
00:32:23,520 --> 00:32:26,920
Speaker 2: the time fossil fuels, coal, something like that. Right. What

517
00:32:27,080 --> 00:32:31,239
Speaker 2: happens when that stuff accidentally spills out all into the

518
00:32:31,240 --> 00:32:33,160
Speaker 2: ocean because you got a junker.

519
00:32:33,920 --> 00:32:39,640
Speaker 3: Right exactly. Yeah, And what happens in typical maritime law

520
00:32:39,840 --> 00:32:44,040
Speaker 3: is marine insurers get involved. They look at your policy

521
00:32:44,600 --> 00:32:47,280
Speaker 3: and they write the ship off as a loss, or

522
00:32:47,440 --> 00:32:50,760
Speaker 3: they make people whole financially.

523
00:32:50,360 --> 00:32:52,480
Speaker 2: And they enjoy clean up efforts.

524
00:32:52,840 --> 00:32:55,760
Speaker 3: And part of that is initiating or it should be

525
00:32:55,880 --> 00:32:58,640
Speaker 3: initiating clean up efforts. Now, if you got the real

526
00:32:58,760 --> 00:33:01,960
Speaker 3: fancy pants stuff, like one of the big oil companies,

527
00:33:02,640 --> 00:33:08,200
Speaker 3: then part of your insurance is PR. Yeah. Correct, It's

528
00:33:08,320 --> 00:33:12,720
Speaker 3: it's a crisis management, right, it's setting up a proxy

529
00:33:13,200 --> 00:33:17,880
Speaker 3: networker matroshka doll of fake call call in eight hundred

530
00:33:17,960 --> 00:33:20,440
Speaker 3: numbers that don't really help you and just try to

531
00:33:20,520 --> 00:33:22,640
Speaker 3: kick the can of class action down the road.

532
00:33:22,720 --> 00:33:24,440
Speaker 2: Guys, we got a big problem there's a bunch of

533
00:33:24,520 --> 00:33:27,280
Speaker 2: visible oil floating on the top of the ocean. What

534
00:33:27,320 --> 00:33:27,760
Speaker 2: do we do?

535
00:33:28,600 --> 00:33:31,240
Speaker 3: Hmmm, what if we made invisible oil?

536
00:33:31,560 --> 00:33:34,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, what if we sprayed it with some stuff?

537
00:33:34,640 --> 00:33:40,760
Speaker 3: Like how about this, gentlemen, we can't take the optics

538
00:33:40,960 --> 00:33:44,520
Speaker 3: of all these animals being soaked in oiled. So let's

539
00:33:44,560 --> 00:33:47,120
Speaker 3: get with our friends at the New York Times and

540
00:33:47,200 --> 00:33:49,560
Speaker 3: let's touch the FBI to touch the rest of main

541
00:33:49,600 --> 00:33:54,440
Speaker 3: street media and only show animals who are a sols

542
00:33:54,880 --> 00:33:55,480
Speaker 3: like seagulls.

543
00:33:55,560 --> 00:33:59,480
Speaker 2: Yes, and if we make it like pepsi clear, then

544
00:33:59,600 --> 00:34:01,880
Speaker 2: it'll just looked like all the animals went to a

545
00:34:01,880 --> 00:34:02,880
Speaker 2: ditty party.

546
00:34:03,200 --> 00:34:07,640
Speaker 4: At the slipping and sliding all over time. At the

547
00:34:07,760 --> 00:34:09,720
Speaker 4: very least, we make a deal with the pal Malive

548
00:34:09,760 --> 00:34:12,520
Speaker 4: company so that we can have like branded tie ins

549
00:34:12,560 --> 00:34:13,920
Speaker 4: with soaping between them.

550
00:34:14,239 --> 00:34:17,560
Speaker 2: Yes, but jokes aside, guys, we all remember, corrects it

551
00:34:17,880 --> 00:34:21,839
Speaker 2: that was? That was the spray that went from airplanes

552
00:34:21,880 --> 00:34:23,640
Speaker 2: onto the surface of the ocean when there was a

553
00:34:23,680 --> 00:34:27,000
Speaker 2: massive oil spill, And all it did was collect the

554
00:34:27,080 --> 00:34:30,400
Speaker 2: oil and send it down to the bottom of the ocean.

555
00:34:30,680 --> 00:34:33,640
Speaker 2: So they're literally what you're talking about, Ben. The optics

556
00:34:33,800 --> 00:34:36,400
Speaker 2: looked great. The bottom of the ocean and all the

557
00:34:36,440 --> 00:34:38,880
Speaker 2: life that was down there was covered in oil.

558
00:34:40,040 --> 00:34:42,719
Speaker 3: Yes, yeah, absolutely, and a lot of it still is.

559
00:34:44,480 --> 00:34:48,880
Speaker 3: And that happened with the benefit of insurance. The issue

560
00:34:48,960 --> 00:34:53,080
Speaker 3: with the shadow fleet is that, or the suspected shadow

561
00:34:53,120 --> 00:34:57,400
Speaker 3: fleet members, is that something like two thirds of these

562
00:34:57,840 --> 00:35:03,960
Speaker 3: loosely identified vessels, when put to the question, have unknown insurers.

563
00:35:04,200 --> 00:35:08,279
Speaker 3: What does that mean? It means that italics someone is

564
00:35:08,320 --> 00:35:12,960
Speaker 3: apparently paying for upkeep, maintenance, accidents, liability, but good luck

565
00:35:13,239 --> 00:35:17,400
Speaker 3: verifying exactly who that someone is. Cough cough, Russia, cough cough.

566
00:35:17,800 --> 00:35:20,680
Speaker 3: And that leads us to the second factor, how do

567
00:35:20,719 --> 00:35:22,920
Speaker 3: you figure out who owns these ships?

568
00:35:23,160 --> 00:35:26,480
Speaker 4: Well, we were just talking about like VPNs and proxy

569
00:35:26,600 --> 00:35:28,799
Speaker 4: networks and stuff like that. It's a bit of that

570
00:35:28,920 --> 00:35:33,040
Speaker 4: going on here. Disguising the true origins the true ownership

571
00:35:33,120 --> 00:35:35,359
Speaker 4: of these ships is part and parcel of this whole

572
00:35:35,400 --> 00:35:37,960
Speaker 4: ghost fleet thing. So remember how we talked about the

573
00:35:38,000 --> 00:35:42,560
Speaker 4: importance of those ships flying flags to identify themselves, show

574
00:35:42,560 --> 00:35:44,600
Speaker 4: who their allegiances or to who, show who they're repping.

575
00:35:44,680 --> 00:35:47,560
Speaker 4: Right In a way, this is very similar to passports

576
00:35:47,640 --> 00:35:51,000
Speaker 4: and any international you know, visas and travel documents. So

577
00:35:51,000 --> 00:35:54,920
Speaker 4: every ship traveling, especially internationally has to be registered somewhere,

578
00:35:56,719 --> 00:36:00,600
Speaker 4: but much like the VPN, Right, is that somewhere necessarily

579
00:36:00,640 --> 00:36:02,120
Speaker 4: where you are more retained?

580
00:36:03,640 --> 00:36:07,719
Speaker 3: Uh huh, sure, good ball the Marshall Islands. Right, when's

581
00:36:07,760 --> 00:36:10,880
Speaker 3: the last time we hopped on a Marshall Islands boat? Guys,

582
00:36:12,840 --> 00:36:17,560
Speaker 3: rhetorical question, At least for the air, this is so weird. Okay,

583
00:36:17,680 --> 00:36:21,080
Speaker 3: Let's do another microcosmic example. Let's say you're in a

584
00:36:21,120 --> 00:36:25,600
Speaker 3: situation where you have your regular day to day passport.

585
00:36:25,760 --> 00:36:27,560
Speaker 3: And by the way, if you are in the United

586
00:36:27,640 --> 00:36:30,680
Speaker 3: States and you don't have a passport, do it now?

587
00:36:31,160 --> 00:36:33,400
Speaker 3: Pause this, get it now.

588
00:36:33,400 --> 00:36:35,920
Speaker 4: Get ye to a passport office.

589
00:36:36,120 --> 00:36:39,920
Speaker 2: It isn't as painful as I suspected it would be

590
00:36:39,920 --> 00:36:40,560
Speaker 2: when I resigned.

591
00:36:40,560 --> 00:36:42,799
Speaker 4: It's as backed up now as it used to be.

592
00:36:42,880 --> 00:36:45,160
Speaker 4: Either I think a lot of us got them renewed

593
00:36:45,760 --> 00:36:47,880
Speaker 4: during COVID or in the thick of COVID when it

594
00:36:47,920 --> 00:36:50,400
Speaker 4: was a nightmare. But now I think it's a little

595
00:36:50,400 --> 00:36:52,640
Speaker 4: bit more straightforward and less of a weight list. If

596
00:36:52,640 --> 00:36:54,600
Speaker 4: I'm not mistaken, I may be speaking out of school there,

597
00:36:54,600 --> 00:36:56,120
Speaker 4: but it couldn't possibly be as bad as it was

598
00:36:56,200 --> 00:36:56,760
Speaker 4: during COVID.

599
00:36:57,040 --> 00:37:01,080
Speaker 3: You guys are both absolutely right. And we don't write

600
00:37:01,120 --> 00:37:03,240
Speaker 3: to us if you want more details, but for now,

601
00:37:03,640 --> 00:37:05,759
Speaker 3: if you don't have one, please trust us.

602
00:37:05,920 --> 00:37:11,520
Speaker 4: Get it immediately before it becomes like you know, outlawed

603
00:37:11,560 --> 00:37:13,360
Speaker 4: or band who knows man anything it.

604
00:37:13,960 --> 00:37:15,680
Speaker 3: Just pause this, get it.

605
00:37:16,520 --> 00:37:18,840
Speaker 2: This is your apply for a passport interviews.

606
00:37:20,120 --> 00:37:25,879
Speaker 3: Thank you, great, congratulations, welcome back. Now the example makes

607
00:37:25,920 --> 00:37:28,279
Speaker 3: more sense. Let's say you're in a situation where you

608
00:37:28,400 --> 00:37:31,160
Speaker 3: got your regular day to day passport, but you got

609
00:37:31,200 --> 00:37:33,080
Speaker 3: to make some moves. You got to make some quiet

610
00:37:33,120 --> 00:37:35,439
Speaker 3: moves you want to draw too much attention for one

611
00:37:35,480 --> 00:37:40,160
Speaker 3: reason or another. You can legally acquire another passport from

612
00:37:40,160 --> 00:37:43,839
Speaker 3: a lesser known country. The Caribbean nations in particular were

613
00:37:43,880 --> 00:37:46,560
Speaker 3: once very popular for this, and then go on about

614
00:37:46,600 --> 00:37:51,600
Speaker 3: your day. Right now, I'm no longer Dylan Fagan from

615
00:37:51,600 --> 00:37:55,960
Speaker 3: the United States. I'm Dylan Fagan from you know, the Bahamas.

616
00:37:56,040 --> 00:37:56,920
Speaker 2: That's a different guy.

617
00:37:57,800 --> 00:37:59,000
Speaker 3: That's a whole different guy.

618
00:38:00,000 --> 00:38:03,520
Speaker 4: Island one of them, island boy.

619
00:38:04,719 --> 00:38:08,160
Speaker 3: It's only illegal if you futs with your name. So

620
00:38:08,239 --> 00:38:11,799
Speaker 3: if you are like Thiland Dagan from the Bahamas, first off,

621
00:38:11,840 --> 00:38:16,080
Speaker 3: that's very cool Star Wars esque name. Secondly, that would

622
00:38:16,120 --> 00:38:19,480
Speaker 3: be illegal for a couple of reasons. But the same

623
00:38:19,520 --> 00:38:23,160
Speaker 3: thing can happen legally at sea. When a ship or

624
00:38:23,200 --> 00:38:26,560
Speaker 3: its ultimate owners want to muddy their paper trail, want

625
00:38:26,600 --> 00:38:30,640
Speaker 3: to avoid taxation or dodge regulations, they fly under what

626
00:38:30,719 --> 00:38:34,759
Speaker 3: we call flags of convenience. The flag is the passport

627
00:38:34,800 --> 00:38:35,320
Speaker 3: for the ship.

628
00:38:35,480 --> 00:38:38,320
Speaker 4: Well, and while this wouldn't necessarily fall under the category

629
00:38:38,360 --> 00:38:41,760
Speaker 4: of what we might call a false flag, it's.

630
00:38:41,640 --> 00:38:42,360
Speaker 3: A vague flag.

631
00:38:42,400 --> 00:38:44,080
Speaker 4: It's night or is it a fault? Is it truly

632
00:38:44,120 --> 00:38:44,880
Speaker 4: the titular false?

633
00:38:44,880 --> 00:38:46,719
Speaker 3: It's the etymology, Yeah, it really is.

634
00:38:46,800 --> 00:38:51,120
Speaker 2: Yes, And BBC in their reporting literally calls it false flagging.

635
00:38:51,680 --> 00:38:54,919
Speaker 3: Okay, yeah, that's where it comes from. Folks. The more

636
00:38:54,960 --> 00:38:55,880
Speaker 3: you know, dot get.

637
00:38:55,760 --> 00:38:59,040
Speaker 4: But technically what they're doing isn't illegal, not at all.

638
00:38:59,280 --> 00:39:03,200
Speaker 3: Right, It's controversial, but it really depends upon how you

639
00:39:03,320 --> 00:39:06,279
Speaker 3: do it. In fact, it's pretty common because all it

640
00:39:06,360 --> 00:39:10,440
Speaker 3: means is that you are, as an owner of a vessel,

641
00:39:10,520 --> 00:39:14,759
Speaker 3: you are registering your ship in a different country than

642
00:39:15,040 --> 00:39:16,960
Speaker 3: the country of origin or the country you live in,

643
00:39:17,239 --> 00:39:19,120
Speaker 3: and that ship flies that country's flag.

644
00:39:19,160 --> 00:39:20,960
Speaker 4: And I guess the reason I had that question of

645
00:39:21,000 --> 00:39:24,239
Speaker 4: whether this constituted false flagging is because when we think

646
00:39:24,280 --> 00:39:26,359
Speaker 4: of that, the way it sort of evolved. The term

647
00:39:26,560 --> 00:39:30,200
Speaker 4: is something that is inherently illegal and misleading.

648
00:39:30,640 --> 00:39:34,400
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, yeah, super pejorative, right, Gulf of Tonka false

649
00:39:34,400 --> 00:39:38,080
Speaker 3: flag attack. That's great. That's great because it's a maritime example.

650
00:39:38,120 --> 00:39:41,120
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, that's a great example. It reminds me of

651
00:39:41,840 --> 00:39:44,520
Speaker 2: my son is learning about the Revolutionary War and all

652
00:39:44,600 --> 00:39:46,400
Speaker 2: of that stuff in school, and it reminds me of

653
00:39:46,440 --> 00:39:48,600
Speaker 2: the US one, Yes, the US one. And it reminds

654
00:39:48,640 --> 00:39:51,480
Speaker 2: me a lot of those tactics that were just outside

655
00:39:51,560 --> 00:39:55,279
Speaker 2: the bounds of the agreed upon rules of combat right

656
00:39:55,400 --> 00:39:57,600
Speaker 2: back in the day for that kind of stuff. That's

657
00:39:57,600 --> 00:40:02,000
Speaker 2: something we see an evolution of that kind of those tactics. Right,

658
00:40:02,200 --> 00:40:04,200
Speaker 2: are you just doing something that's a little outside the

659
00:40:04,239 --> 00:40:06,960
Speaker 2: bounds of the rules and that it makes everybody else go?

660
00:40:07,360 --> 00:40:09,920
Speaker 2: But what do we what do we even do about this?

661
00:40:09,960 --> 00:40:12,359
Speaker 2: It's it's not it's not in the PRU book.

662
00:40:13,000 --> 00:40:17,759
Speaker 3: Have these American dogs not heard of Napoleonic warfare? They're

663
00:40:17,840 --> 00:40:21,000
Speaker 3: hiding behind the trees. Get in a line and march

664
00:40:21,080 --> 00:40:22,879
Speaker 3: forward as you got Yeah, Or.

665
00:40:22,920 --> 00:40:25,080
Speaker 2: Fly the flag that you're supposed to be flying. Dude,

666
00:40:25,120 --> 00:40:25,799
Speaker 2: that's the rule.

667
00:40:26,800 --> 00:40:31,160
Speaker 3: I can't believe it. Party foul, party, foul unkill that

668
00:40:31,200 --> 00:40:37,040
Speaker 3: guy I call unkill him your cheaters. So this is dark?

669
00:40:39,200 --> 00:40:41,439
Speaker 3: What are you talking about it? Yeah, that's what we're

670
00:40:41,440 --> 00:40:44,960
Speaker 3: here for. Yeah, because it gets dark earlier and earlier

671
00:40:46,160 --> 00:40:47,120
Speaker 3: these days, doesn't it.

672
00:40:47,440 --> 00:40:49,480
Speaker 4: And so take a little vitamin D if that's bumming

673
00:40:49,520 --> 00:40:51,200
Speaker 4: you out, by the way, y'all, I started doing that

674
00:40:51,280 --> 00:40:52,680
Speaker 4: and it has made all the difference.

675
00:40:53,560 --> 00:40:56,640
Speaker 3: Get some ultra violet therapy. Well they have those lights

676
00:40:56,640 --> 00:41:01,640
Speaker 3: apparently where two for the SADS season effective disorder.

677
00:41:01,719 --> 00:41:03,720
Speaker 4: And with the what was the term you used earlier

678
00:41:03,719 --> 00:41:06,680
Speaker 4: then something of old tanker booms. Maybe that was it.

679
00:41:06,680 --> 00:41:10,680
Speaker 4: It was beater tankers. There's a beater tanker boom in

680
00:41:10,719 --> 00:41:15,680
Speaker 4: effect here. And there was also an explosion of flags

681
00:41:15,719 --> 00:41:17,800
Speaker 4: of convenience, which we're gonna call them. That's sort of

682
00:41:17,840 --> 00:41:22,480
Speaker 4: the soft version of full false flaggery. The Atlantic Council

683
00:41:22,600 --> 00:41:25,560
Speaker 4: notes that Gobon as a specific example, and in twenty

684
00:41:25,600 --> 00:41:29,360
Speaker 4: twenty three alone it more than doubled its ship registry.

685
00:41:30,000 --> 00:41:32,040
Speaker 4: Is this almost like, I mean, maybe my brain is

686
00:41:32,080 --> 00:41:33,799
Speaker 4: going to the wrong place. But like the way so

687
00:41:33,880 --> 00:41:38,120
Speaker 4: many businesses are incorporated in Delaware, you know, but they're

688
00:41:38,120 --> 00:41:42,400
Speaker 4: not based in Delaware. It gives them some not plausible deniability,

689
00:41:42,440 --> 00:41:44,799
Speaker 4: but some shelters, and there's various things about it that,

690
00:41:44,880 --> 00:41:47,440
Speaker 4: while not inherently illegal, if you see a place that's

691
00:41:47,480 --> 00:41:49,760
Speaker 4: registered in Delaware, maybe sometimes it gives you pause.

692
00:41:50,280 --> 00:41:53,480
Speaker 3: Yeah, I like that comparison. All it's a state of convenience.

693
00:41:54,160 --> 00:41:58,320
Speaker 3: Flags of convenience are are even a little bit more tricky.

694
00:42:00,040 --> 00:42:03,480
Speaker 3: Rushould saying you're down with foc Yeah, you know me

695
00:42:03,880 --> 00:42:06,480
Speaker 3: or you don't. You'll know who really owns the ship

696
00:42:06,680 --> 00:42:10,040
Speaker 3: after we run it through a ton of different countries

697
00:42:10,120 --> 00:42:14,640
Speaker 3: for registration. So like you were saying, the Atlantic Council said,

698
00:42:14,760 --> 00:42:17,960
Speaker 3: Yet not only did the Nation of Gabon, which is

699
00:42:17,960 --> 00:42:20,879
Speaker 3: not a huge place, not only did it more than

700
00:42:21,000 --> 00:42:25,799
Speaker 3: double ships registered under its flag, but of the tankers

701
00:42:26,080 --> 00:42:30,040
Speaker 3: that were registered in twenty twenty three, ninety eight percent

702
00:42:30,520 --> 00:42:35,360
Speaker 3: that got even the most cursory maintenance check or condition

703
00:42:35,520 --> 00:42:39,680
Speaker 3: check were classified as high risk and of and those

704
00:42:39,840 --> 00:42:45,359
Speaker 3: ninety eight percent had quote no easily identifiable owner. Cough cough,

705
00:42:45,440 --> 00:42:51,879
Speaker 3: Russia cough cough, Wow coalition at cough cough. All right,

706
00:42:51,920 --> 00:42:52,560
Speaker 3: they're not all good.

707
00:42:52,680 --> 00:42:54,319
Speaker 4: I was looking for something like that too, Ben, I

708
00:42:54,400 --> 00:42:57,399
Speaker 4: was thinking friends, cough cough. But there we go.

709
00:42:57,880 --> 00:43:01,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, there's also this thing that happen, which is essentially

710
00:43:01,239 --> 00:43:05,719
Speaker 2: a vpning of the flag. Right, So you send it

711
00:43:05,760 --> 00:43:08,920
Speaker 2: through one place, you register it there, then you register

712
00:43:09,000 --> 00:43:11,440
Speaker 2: it in another place really soon after. Then you re

713
00:43:11,440 --> 00:43:12,600
Speaker 2: register it again in a.

714
00:43:12,600 --> 00:43:14,600
Speaker 4: Third place pin pinking.

715
00:43:14,719 --> 00:43:17,640
Speaker 2: And now as somebody like, let's say you get encountered

716
00:43:17,680 --> 00:43:21,319
Speaker 2: by some coast Guard ship and they're they're asking you

717
00:43:21,320 --> 00:43:24,480
Speaker 2: your credentials just over the radio basically, which is generally

718
00:43:24,480 --> 00:43:27,000
Speaker 2: how it happens at first, and you give them your

719
00:43:27,000 --> 00:43:30,680
Speaker 2: information like, well, wait, that's you're flying under there. Let's

720
00:43:30,719 --> 00:43:32,680
Speaker 2: look up the registration on these guys. Let's tell us

721
00:43:32,719 --> 00:43:34,400
Speaker 2: to go back in time a little bit, find the

722
00:43:34,440 --> 00:43:36,520
Speaker 2: next registration. Right wait what Estonia?

723
00:43:36,640 --> 00:43:40,920
Speaker 3: Okay, it just wait wait, well yeah, but sorry guys,

724
00:43:40,960 --> 00:43:44,040
Speaker 3: it was Estonia, That was the Marshall Islands.

725
00:43:44,040 --> 00:43:46,200
Speaker 2: Then it was Little Saint James after that.

726
00:43:46,400 --> 00:43:49,640
Speaker 3: Right, did none of those three work? Okay?

727
00:43:49,719 --> 00:43:56,439
Speaker 4: Try jibooty ooh, we going to get I like saying

728
00:43:56,480 --> 00:43:58,160
Speaker 4: digibooty like digitmon you know.

729
00:43:58,680 --> 00:44:03,600
Speaker 3: Yeah, also nabokovkugh cough whatever. Is what we're describing here

730
00:44:03,680 --> 00:44:08,600
Speaker 3: is a concept called flag hopping by the authorities. We

731
00:44:08,640 --> 00:44:13,400
Speaker 3: should mention there's another tactic that shadow fleets use. It

732
00:44:13,520 --> 00:44:17,080
Speaker 3: is not uncommon for ships like this to try and

733
00:44:17,239 --> 00:44:20,360
Speaker 3: beat me here Dylan just bulk their way through the

734
00:44:20,400 --> 00:44:25,000
Speaker 3: whole regulation thing by pretending to be registered somewhere, because

735
00:44:25,040 --> 00:44:28,960
Speaker 3: flags are cheap to buy, relatively speaking, It's cheaper than

736
00:44:28,960 --> 00:44:31,880
Speaker 3: actually getting registered with a country. Right, you can just

737
00:44:31,920 --> 00:44:35,400
Speaker 3: buy the flag. So imagine you're rocking up to passport

738
00:44:35,480 --> 00:44:39,920
Speaker 3: control and you're trying to do some NaNs and shenan again,

739
00:44:40,320 --> 00:44:43,399
Speaker 3: and you wave a flag from Dubai and you say, yeah,

740
00:44:43,719 --> 00:44:47,160
Speaker 3: look at the flag. That's me, homie. All right, good, hang,

741
00:44:47,480 --> 00:44:48,239
Speaker 3: have a great day.

742
00:44:48,719 --> 00:44:51,880
Speaker 2: I'm out, all right, Then, no more questions, sir, Please,

743
00:44:52,000 --> 00:44:53,640
Speaker 2: you don't have to remove your shoes anymore.

744
00:44:53,960 --> 00:44:59,279
Speaker 3: Oh, this is a shoes on airport. Yes, that explains

745
00:44:59,320 --> 00:44:59,880
Speaker 3: so much.

746
00:45:00,680 --> 00:45:04,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, notice how lovely it smells in this general area.

747
00:45:06,760 --> 00:45:08,200
Speaker 3: Is that gasoline?

748
00:45:08,360 --> 00:45:09,200
Speaker 2: It's not shoes.

749
00:45:11,760 --> 00:45:13,680
Speaker 3: It's not shoes. It's brought to you by our friends

750
00:45:13,680 --> 00:45:19,080
Speaker 3: at IGU. What is that? It's not shoes.

751
00:45:20,280 --> 00:45:21,640
Speaker 4: Hashtag not shoes.

752
00:45:21,960 --> 00:45:26,480
Speaker 3: Hashtag not shoes. It's it's also I mean, all these

753
00:45:26,520 --> 00:45:29,680
Speaker 3: factors lead to one thing. We have ships that may

754
00:45:29,719 --> 00:45:33,680
Speaker 3: at first glance come from Liberia. The Marshall Islands, goabon,

755
00:45:33,800 --> 00:45:37,440
Speaker 3: et cetera. Basically from anywhere but Russia, and they're carrying

756
00:45:37,440 --> 00:45:40,600
Speaker 3: illegal goods and when the sea hits the fan, you

757
00:45:40,680 --> 00:45:43,200
Speaker 3: can't find the owners. As a matter of fact, Western

758
00:45:43,239 --> 00:45:47,960
Speaker 3: authorities right now twenty twenty five cannot even completely agree

759
00:45:48,080 --> 00:45:50,920
Speaker 3: on which ships are part of the shadow fleet. To

760
00:45:51,000 --> 00:45:55,560
Speaker 3: be effective, the authorities have to sanction, not the idea,

761
00:45:56,200 --> 00:45:59,560
Speaker 3: which they've already done. And of the eleven hundred to

762
00:46:00,120 --> 00:46:01,960
Speaker 3: was it an old fourteen hundred and fifteen hundred?

763
00:46:02,040 --> 00:46:02,640
Speaker 4: That is correct?

764
00:46:02,680 --> 00:46:05,800
Speaker 3: So okay that have been identified out there, only around

765
00:46:05,960 --> 00:46:09,440
Speaker 3: one hundred and eighteen individual ships have been in some

766
00:46:09,600 --> 00:46:16,399
Speaker 3: way sanctu ooh that's eight baby, Oh nice, Okay, mission accomplished,

767
00:46:16,440 --> 00:46:19,200
Speaker 3: Go team, You know what I mean? Steaks at Dave

768
00:46:19,239 --> 00:46:21,279
Speaker 3: and Busters for everybody sounds a lot.

769
00:46:21,280 --> 00:46:23,920
Speaker 2: I don't on drugs, right, That kind of like, hey,

770
00:46:24,080 --> 00:46:26,360
Speaker 2: we're putting some on the table at least.

771
00:46:27,040 --> 00:46:32,240
Speaker 3: Yeah, that also makes me wonder European and Aussie friends

772
00:46:32,280 --> 00:46:34,920
Speaker 3: write it and let us know, are you familiar with

773
00:46:35,040 --> 00:46:39,200
Speaker 3: Dave and Busters. It's a restaurant chain that has games.

774
00:46:39,640 --> 00:46:43,400
Speaker 3: When I say games like that, but they I don't

775
00:46:43,400 --> 00:46:47,200
Speaker 3: know if that's if they've gone worldwide yet, I hope.

776
00:46:47,200 --> 00:46:49,399
Speaker 3: So they're d and B in the Middle East.

777
00:46:49,920 --> 00:46:50,720
Speaker 4: Drum and bass.

778
00:46:51,200 --> 00:46:52,759
Speaker 3: There's definitely drum and bass is there.

779
00:46:53,520 --> 00:46:57,080
Speaker 4: It might be out certain parts, oh right, because of

780
00:46:57,120 --> 00:47:01,040
Speaker 4: the bpms are too hot. That's right, you know what though,

781
00:47:01,080 --> 00:47:04,520
Speaker 4: I mean our time in the Middle East definitely indicates

782
00:47:04,520 --> 00:47:07,120
Speaker 4: that they love some American stuff. And what's more American

783
00:47:07,160 --> 00:47:10,600
Speaker 4: than David Busters Mm hmm, this.

784
00:47:10,360 --> 00:47:15,280
Speaker 3: Is our we're also giving geopolitical advice. Take that, mackenzie. Anyway,

785
00:47:15,360 --> 00:47:19,360
Speaker 3: these Shadow Fleets, by the way, even when they succeed,

786
00:47:19,880 --> 00:47:23,800
Speaker 3: things go wrong. Stuff goes horribly wrong for the crews

787
00:47:23,920 --> 00:47:26,359
Speaker 3: and the ships all the time. So I think we're

788
00:47:26,400 --> 00:47:29,839
Speaker 3: due for a second ad break, and then we got

789
00:47:29,840 --> 00:47:38,799
Speaker 3: to talk about when things go wrong. All right, we're back.

790
00:47:39,960 --> 00:47:44,240
Speaker 3: Sometimes these ships have accidents, sometimes they have critical malfunctions.

791
00:47:44,520 --> 00:47:49,240
Speaker 3: Sometimes they get straight up sabotage. Let's start with the accidents. Okay,

792
00:47:49,400 --> 00:47:52,520
Speaker 3: These operations are already pretty off the books, so it's

793
00:47:52,560 --> 00:47:57,120
Speaker 3: no surprise that things like ship maintenance and working conditions

794
00:47:57,120 --> 00:48:00,439
Speaker 3: often aren't up to snuff. You know, there's not really

795
00:48:00,440 --> 00:48:04,160
Speaker 3: an OSHA for these guys, and there's not really a

796
00:48:04,480 --> 00:48:06,920
Speaker 3: work please safety seminar thing going.

797
00:48:06,719 --> 00:48:08,160
Speaker 4: On a safety meeting.

798
00:48:08,560 --> 00:48:11,040
Speaker 3: No, they have a don't spill the oil and don't

799
00:48:11,080 --> 00:48:12,600
Speaker 3: snitch to the sea cops.

800
00:48:12,640 --> 00:48:14,160
Speaker 4: Have you, guys ever heard of at that moment when

801
00:48:14,160 --> 00:48:16,279
Speaker 4: you walk off with your cousins at Thanksgiving to smoke

802
00:48:16,320 --> 00:48:19,200
Speaker 4: weed called the safety meeting? Yes, I'm sorry, I didn't

803
00:48:19,200 --> 00:48:21,400
Speaker 4: mean to derail with it. I literally learned that yesterday

804
00:48:21,400 --> 00:48:22,799
Speaker 4: and I thought that was really funny.

805
00:48:23,760 --> 00:48:27,120
Speaker 3: I've heard it called a couple of different things. The

806
00:48:27,280 --> 00:48:32,320
Speaker 3: excursion and then running errands is another one.

807
00:48:33,400 --> 00:48:35,760
Speaker 2: I literally don't know what you guys are talking about.

808
00:48:36,239 --> 00:48:40,920
Speaker 3: It's because you come from a functional So all right,

809
00:48:40,960 --> 00:48:43,839
Speaker 3: what example of accidents? Let's go to this one from

810
00:48:44,120 --> 00:48:46,319
Speaker 3: January of twenty twenty five.

811
00:48:48,239 --> 00:48:50,760
Speaker 2: This is really interesting, guys. I learned about oust Luga

812
00:48:51,160 --> 00:48:53,840
Speaker 2: from the BBC because they put a handy little map

813
00:48:53,960 --> 00:48:57,640
Speaker 2: on one of their stories that I found, And that's

814
00:48:57,640 --> 00:48:59,439
Speaker 2: one of the ports I was mentioning earlier at the top,

815
00:48:59,480 --> 00:49:01,319
Speaker 2: just thinking about how far flown they are, right and

816
00:49:01,320 --> 00:49:04,040
Speaker 2: how far they have to go. So this specific thing

817
00:49:04,200 --> 00:49:08,360
Speaker 2: occurred when a tanker, the eventeen eve N TI N

818
00:49:09,120 --> 00:49:12,920
Speaker 2: left ust Luga. It was flying Panama's flag and it

819
00:49:13,000 --> 00:49:16,760
Speaker 2: was heading for Egypt, and it had guess what, around

820
00:49:16,760 --> 00:49:19,479
Speaker 2: one hundred thousand tons of Russian crude oil.

821
00:49:20,520 --> 00:49:25,520
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, business is good. Unfortunately, for one reason or another,

822
00:49:26,360 --> 00:49:30,400
Speaker 3: our pal the Evington lost power and lost engine power,

823
00:49:30,440 --> 00:49:33,439
Speaker 3: full engine powers. Dead in the water along the way.

824
00:49:33,440 --> 00:49:38,400
Speaker 3: It didn't make it to Egypt, and it drifted into

825
00:49:38,800 --> 00:49:43,040
Speaker 3: Germany's waters, and in February the oh Germany captured it

826
00:49:43,080 --> 00:49:45,680
Speaker 3: by the way, and then in February the European Union

827
00:49:46,640 --> 00:49:51,000
Speaker 3: put this specific ship on that knotty list of sanctioned vessels.

828
00:49:51,360 --> 00:49:56,360
Speaker 3: And then Germany is still investigating the ship, sniffing around,

829
00:49:56,400 --> 00:49:59,360
Speaker 3: talking the crew, and as soon as the government of

830
00:49:59,400 --> 00:50:03,000
Speaker 3: Germany figures out just how much oil this bad boy

831
00:50:03,080 --> 00:50:05,319
Speaker 3: is carrying, they seize it for the.

832
00:50:05,280 --> 00:50:08,600
Speaker 2: Greater good of the German people.

833
00:50:10,640 --> 00:50:15,760
Speaker 3: Kind of like how the less ethical law enforcement members

834
00:50:15,880 --> 00:50:19,080
Speaker 3: might bust a high school party and then just the

835
00:50:19,120 --> 00:50:20,720
Speaker 3: weed disappears.

836
00:50:20,440 --> 00:50:24,480
Speaker 2: A but in this case it would be the booze

837
00:50:24,480 --> 00:50:27,840
Speaker 2: because it's fully legal, at least in this state.

838
00:50:28,920 --> 00:50:30,520
Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah, I mean, that's a great point.

839
00:50:30,640 --> 00:50:34,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's not like busting contraband is busting like a

840
00:50:34,239 --> 00:50:38,440
Speaker 2: legitimate resource that is just sitting there. But then it

841
00:50:38,480 --> 00:50:41,600
Speaker 2: goes to court, right, because it's yeah, it's a different

842
00:50:41,680 --> 00:50:44,480
Speaker 2: kind of court. It's a different version of it. It's

843
00:50:44,480 --> 00:50:46,880
Speaker 2: not as simple as you might think. This is the

844
00:50:46,880 --> 00:50:48,160
Speaker 2: maritime law, boys.

845
00:50:49,960 --> 00:50:54,000
Speaker 3: Yeah, there's a reason. It's a whole different genre of law. Yeah,

846
00:50:54,040 --> 00:50:57,800
Speaker 3: and the case is going to drag on probably legal

847
00:50:58,120 --> 00:51:01,360
Speaker 3: quagmire for a few years. But now it appears Russia

848
00:51:01,480 --> 00:51:05,000
Speaker 3: got got And if you look at other examples just

849
00:51:05,040 --> 00:51:09,200
Speaker 3: real quick, you'll see that it goes back in February twentieth,

850
00:51:09,280 --> 00:51:13,800
Speaker 3: twenty twenty three, two Shadow Fleet suspected Shadow Fleet tankers

851
00:51:14,640 --> 00:51:17,439
Speaker 3: had to be aided by tugs in a salvage ship

852
00:51:17,480 --> 00:51:21,279
Speaker 3: in the Bay Gibraltar. They had both recently changed their

853
00:51:21,440 --> 00:51:25,920
Speaker 3: names and their flag registrations. One had changed it to Palau,

854
00:51:26,280 --> 00:51:30,360
Speaker 3: the other two Gobon. They went through several different flags

855
00:51:30,360 --> 00:51:34,120
Speaker 3: of convenience before that. They didn't have proper insurance, so

856
00:51:34,239 --> 00:51:37,200
Speaker 3: taxpayers had to pick up the tab to pay for

857
00:51:37,239 --> 00:51:40,520
Speaker 3: those tugs and salvage ships. And then you know, there's

858
00:51:41,520 --> 00:51:44,760
Speaker 3: a bunch of other examples. But what we're giving you here, folks,

859
00:51:45,160 --> 00:51:49,480
Speaker 3: is a real Western narrative. At this point, institutions like

860
00:51:49,560 --> 00:51:52,960
Speaker 3: the Atlantic Council, they want to build this argument that

861
00:51:53,160 --> 00:51:58,000
Speaker 3: cracking down on shadow fleets is not about solely resource

862
00:51:58,080 --> 00:52:01,840
Speaker 3: control and sanctions. It's about safety, you guys. It's about

863
00:52:01,880 --> 00:52:05,400
Speaker 3: saving taxpayer money. It's a good thing, which it is.

864
00:52:06,239 --> 00:52:06,399
Speaker 2: But.

865
00:52:09,080 --> 00:52:11,560
Speaker 3: Bah, it's a big butt. It's a certain mix a lot.

866
00:52:11,600 --> 00:52:14,880
Speaker 2: But you know, oh yeah, like is it a sneaky butt.

867
00:52:16,040 --> 00:52:20,400
Speaker 3: It's a sneak I like that. Let's keep that phrase,

868
00:52:20,600 --> 00:52:22,719
Speaker 3: you little sneaky button, because.

869
00:52:22,440 --> 00:52:26,040
Speaker 2: There's other stuff you can do with moving quietly and

870
00:52:26,080 --> 00:52:28,880
Speaker 2: secretly and under different flags, right.

871
00:52:29,360 --> 00:52:32,600
Speaker 3: Oh of course, yes. Uh. And then we get to

872
00:52:32,640 --> 00:52:35,960
Speaker 3: the more exciting stuff that goes wrong for the shadow

873
00:52:35,960 --> 00:52:41,040
Speaker 3: Fleet skill duggery, special ops, spy adventures. Uh. Let's say

874
00:52:41,360 --> 00:52:44,160
Speaker 3: we're on the crew of a shadow Fleet ship and

875
00:52:44,560 --> 00:52:50,000
Speaker 3: we are all seasoned sailors. We've been illegally hauling crew

876
00:52:50,200 --> 00:52:53,640
Speaker 3: to points abroad. Since we've been at this for a bit,

877
00:52:54,040 --> 00:52:59,160
Speaker 3: We've changed our ensign several times. We've made multiple second runs.

878
00:53:00,480 --> 00:53:03,200
Speaker 3: It's not our first rodeo, but this time it's different.

879
00:53:03,560 --> 00:53:07,239
Speaker 3: We're pulling out of our port. Someone has clocked our

880
00:53:07,280 --> 00:53:11,200
Speaker 3: transit pattern. We got complacent, right, We went from the

881
00:53:11,239 --> 00:53:13,920
Speaker 3: same point AID to the same point Z too often.

882
00:53:14,040 --> 00:53:17,360
Speaker 3: And the seas are watching, so they knew we'd be

883
00:53:17,440 --> 00:53:22,040
Speaker 3: back at a specific Russian port to resupply. Boom, we

884
00:53:22,080 --> 00:53:25,160
Speaker 3: hear the mines explode. Before you know it, our ship's

885
00:53:25,200 --> 00:53:30,480
Speaker 3: going down. There are multiple sabotage operations occurring as we

886
00:53:30,560 --> 00:53:37,279
Speaker 3: record against suspected Shadow Fleet vehicles. No one is admitting

887
00:53:37,520 --> 00:53:40,719
Speaker 3: that they have done it, but pretty much everyone in

888
00:53:40,840 --> 00:53:44,880
Speaker 3: the Intel community that's willing to speak on record says

889
00:53:45,080 --> 00:53:49,400
Speaker 3: this can't be your garden variety eco terrorism or you

890
00:53:49,920 --> 00:53:53,239
Speaker 3: a lone wolf actor with some bombs and some knowledge

891
00:53:53,400 --> 00:53:56,440
Speaker 3: of explosives. This has to be a state level actor

892
00:53:56,600 --> 00:54:03,040
Speaker 3: targeting these ships with sophisticated, expensive limpant mines planted by

893
00:54:03,160 --> 00:54:07,000
Speaker 3: divers using small submarines. This is not like a hey,

894
00:54:07,040 --> 00:54:09,200
Speaker 3: what are you doing next weekend kind of hang out?

895
00:54:09,320 --> 00:54:13,359
Speaker 2: Yeah, this is like Sweden, right, Uh, Sweden's on. I'm

896
00:54:13,400 --> 00:54:17,360
Speaker 2: just I'm joking. The BBC followed along on a Swedish

897
00:54:17,440 --> 00:54:20,160
Speaker 2: vessel while they were like watching and doing this kind

898
00:54:20,200 --> 00:54:20,399
Speaker 2: of thing.

899
00:54:20,640 --> 00:54:23,160
Speaker 3: Well, because oh yeah, yeah, some of these shadow.

900
00:54:23,200 --> 00:54:26,440
Speaker 2: Ships have been accused of doing things like dropping anchor

901
00:54:26,520 --> 00:54:31,080
Speaker 2: and dragging it to disrupt Internet communications right with undersea

902
00:54:31,160 --> 00:54:33,640
Speaker 2: cables and things like that. So you can imagine that

903
00:54:35,520 --> 00:54:41,279
Speaker 2: several countries in the world with sufficient naval operations that

904
00:54:41,360 --> 00:54:44,239
Speaker 2: could pull off that kind of thing, that kind of sabotage,

905
00:54:44,280 --> 00:54:46,360
Speaker 2: which I would say a lot of nations would be

906
00:54:46,400 --> 00:54:49,560
Speaker 2: able to do that kind of stuff. They would have

907
00:54:49,600 --> 00:54:52,160
Speaker 2: a vested interest in trying to make sure some of

908
00:54:52,160 --> 00:54:55,880
Speaker 2: these shadow vessels can't do their own sabotage operations.

909
00:54:56,800 --> 00:54:59,560
Speaker 3: Exactly. Yeah, because think of it from that perspective of

910
00:54:59,640 --> 00:55:03,360
Speaker 3: sunk cost. Right, you already have a shadow fleet. I

911
00:55:03,480 --> 00:55:06,359
Speaker 3: make it just about oil. There's all kinds of other

912
00:55:06,520 --> 00:55:08,640
Speaker 3: fun things to do once you got the boat.

913
00:55:08,960 --> 00:55:11,080
Speaker 4: It's a good to that's a goodies to collect.

914
00:55:11,320 --> 00:55:13,240
Speaker 3: Oh and we should also say a limp at mine

915
00:55:13,760 --> 00:55:17,480
Speaker 3: is just on the basic thing. Don't try it at home,

916
00:55:17,719 --> 00:55:20,480
Speaker 3: but it's it's a mine or an explosive you attach

917
00:55:20,600 --> 00:55:23,799
Speaker 3: via magnets to the whole of a thing underwater, so

918
00:55:23,840 --> 00:55:25,520
Speaker 3: it's more difficult to detect.

919
00:55:26,160 --> 00:55:28,640
Speaker 2: Wow. I like the good old fashioned depth.

920
00:55:28,480 --> 00:55:31,160
Speaker 4: Charge, good old depth charge. I like those big ones

921
00:55:31,160 --> 00:55:34,239
Speaker 4: with the spiky things on them, like chains connected to

922
00:55:34,280 --> 00:55:35,000
Speaker 4: the ocean floor.

923
00:55:35,360 --> 00:55:40,680
Speaker 3: That's yeah, oh man, this is dark. But this also

924
00:55:40,719 --> 00:55:44,440
Speaker 3: becomes a who done it? Atapa? Who done it? Because

925
00:55:44,440 --> 00:55:50,200
Speaker 3: officially no one has taken responsibility for these acts at all.

926
00:55:50,840 --> 00:55:54,720
Speaker 3: Experts again believe this is likely tied to the Ukrainian conflict,

927
00:55:54,840 --> 00:55:57,800
Speaker 3: or at least that's what our folks are saying publicly,

928
00:55:58,320 --> 00:56:01,160
Speaker 3: But it could also be just some one or some

929
00:56:01,560 --> 00:56:05,880
Speaker 3: ones playing dirty pool to make sure those sanctions go through,

930
00:56:06,239 --> 00:56:09,239
Speaker 3: and they may be risking the environment and lives and

931
00:56:09,280 --> 00:56:13,200
Speaker 3: the process. I think that leads us all to two

932
00:56:13,200 --> 00:56:18,120
Speaker 3: big questions, why does this matter? And then an unexpected controversy.

933
00:56:18,480 --> 00:56:22,360
Speaker 3: So riddle is this, folks, Like, why does this matter

934
00:56:22,400 --> 00:56:26,799
Speaker 3: at all? I'm listening in Missouri right, I'm according to

935
00:56:26,840 --> 00:56:29,120
Speaker 3: our reviews, I listened to this show to fall asleep

936
00:56:29,160 --> 00:56:32,440
Speaker 3: and help me with my insomnia. Or I'm driving at

937
00:56:32,440 --> 00:56:35,960
Speaker 3: three am in a truck way in the American interior.

938
00:56:36,120 --> 00:56:38,240
Speaker 3: Why do I care about Russian shadow vessels?

939
00:56:38,280 --> 00:56:41,920
Speaker 4: Well, you probably don't, but if you were to start

940
00:56:42,040 --> 00:56:45,560
Speaker 4: trying to care, this is how you go it because

941
00:56:45,560 --> 00:56:48,000
Speaker 4: it really isn't something that crosses most of our radars

942
00:56:48,040 --> 00:56:51,320
Speaker 4: in our day to day lives, but it matters because

943
00:56:51,320 --> 00:56:56,000
Speaker 4: it affects the profit margins of the global energy corporations

944
00:56:56,040 --> 00:56:59,719
Speaker 4: and global energy markets, private and state owned and run

945
00:57:00,160 --> 00:57:04,320
Speaker 4: like so a lot of factors go into that price

946
00:57:04,400 --> 00:57:06,279
Speaker 4: that you pay at the gas pump, which we know

947
00:57:06,400 --> 00:57:09,560
Speaker 4: is a super hot button political issue that gets bandied

948
00:57:09,600 --> 00:57:12,720
Speaker 4: around here in the United States, and so literally everyone

949
00:57:12,760 --> 00:57:15,560
Speaker 4: involved getting that gas to your car wants a bigger

950
00:57:15,640 --> 00:57:19,520
Speaker 4: piece of the action year over a year, because capitalism

951
00:57:19,600 --> 00:57:24,280
Speaker 4: promises that thing, as in year over year growth forever,

952
00:57:24,560 --> 00:57:27,280
Speaker 4: which just doesn't seem sustainable to any of usm it

953
00:57:27,320 --> 00:57:29,000
Speaker 4: also requires.

954
00:57:28,400 --> 00:57:34,720
Speaker 3: It, right promises, and yes, exactly, thou shalt. So it's

955
00:57:34,720 --> 00:57:37,560
Speaker 3: the big thou shalt of capitalism as a religion. We

956
00:57:37,560 --> 00:57:39,360
Speaker 3: should write the Commandments of capitalism.

957
00:57:39,640 --> 00:57:40,160
Speaker 2: Be interesting.

958
00:57:41,440 --> 00:57:44,520
Speaker 3: It's already a thing, surely. Yeah, there's like a motivational speaker,

959
00:57:44,680 --> 00:57:48,520
Speaker 3: all right, so we'll table that one. Well, I still

960
00:57:48,520 --> 00:57:50,600
Speaker 3: think we should work on that song idea we came

961
00:57:50,680 --> 00:57:54,400
Speaker 3: up with. Anyway, The modern world, like you were saying, Noel,

962
00:57:54,520 --> 00:57:57,160
Speaker 3: this builds on your point, is addicted to fossile fuel

963
00:57:57,480 --> 00:58:00,800
Speaker 3: and powerful interest. Even those who ordinarily hate each other

964
00:58:01,040 --> 00:58:04,919
Speaker 3: about everything else powerful interest want the world to stay

965
00:58:04,960 --> 00:58:08,520
Speaker 3: addicted to this resource because that status quo is quite

966
00:58:08,520 --> 00:58:14,400
Speaker 3: profitable for them. However, every single petro dollar Russia makes,

967
00:58:14,680 --> 00:58:18,320
Speaker 3: or wan or a ruble or whatever every single profit

968
00:58:18,560 --> 00:58:22,720
Speaker 3: Russia makes selling energy is another bit of profit funding

969
00:58:22,840 --> 00:58:27,400
Speaker 3: bellicose actions abroad. It doesn't just like when they sell

970
00:58:27,440 --> 00:58:30,760
Speaker 3: this oil. It doesn't magically turn into a big pile

971
00:58:30,800 --> 00:58:34,600
Speaker 3: of rubles that Daddy Vlad slumbers on like Smoug and

972
00:58:34,680 --> 00:58:35,680
Speaker 3: the Lord of the Rings.

973
00:58:36,120 --> 00:58:38,520
Speaker 4: Dude, how has no one done a political cartoon of this?

974
00:58:38,800 --> 00:58:42,160
Speaker 4: It needs to have sure Smig with Daddy laddie face.

975
00:58:42,840 --> 00:58:44,120
Speaker 4: I'm sure it has.

976
00:58:44,640 --> 00:58:47,240
Speaker 3: Uh. If not, you're first of the post, my friend.

977
00:58:47,840 --> 00:58:49,680
Speaker 4: If only I were a cartoonist. But I'll pass along

978
00:58:49,720 --> 00:58:52,160
Speaker 4: the idea to some people that are better at arts

979
00:58:52,160 --> 00:58:52,400
Speaker 4: than me.

980
00:58:52,760 --> 00:58:58,400
Speaker 3: We're calling turbo agent Turbo, which is a true story, folks.

981
00:58:58,440 --> 00:59:00,520
Speaker 3: I can't believe we actually have an age and Turbo

982
00:59:00,560 --> 00:59:01,680
Speaker 3: that we could call for things.

983
00:59:01,760 --> 00:59:04,000
Speaker 4: I'm actually doing yoga with him in the morning. I

984
00:59:04,040 --> 00:59:04,720
Speaker 4: will bring it up.

985
00:59:05,120 --> 00:59:07,360
Speaker 3: Yes, please do, please do tell them we said hi.

986
00:59:08,720 --> 00:59:10,600
Speaker 3: So we have to add to this that Russia is

987
00:59:10,680 --> 00:59:13,720
Speaker 3: in what we call a wartime economy, which means those

988
00:59:13,760 --> 00:59:17,480
Speaker 3: profits go straight into making new drones, new munitions, new

989
00:59:17,560 --> 00:59:22,160
Speaker 3: weapons of war. By imposing sanctions, the West was hoping

990
00:59:22,200 --> 00:59:25,360
Speaker 3: to cripple the Russian war economy. At the root, it

991
00:59:25,440 --> 00:59:30,560
Speaker 3: is a logical move, but sanctions make things even more complicated.

992
00:59:30,960 --> 00:59:33,880
Speaker 3: Check out our earlier episode for more on that one.

993
00:59:34,120 --> 00:59:40,000
Speaker 3: Remember our sanctions episode. I had to look back up

994
00:59:40,080 --> 00:59:45,600
Speaker 3: surprisingly controversial, and we've been talking about it from a

995
00:59:45,640 --> 00:59:47,960
Speaker 3: Western perspective, and I think we did an okay job

996
00:59:48,000 --> 00:59:50,080
Speaker 3: with that one. I mean, if we look at it

997
00:59:50,120 --> 00:59:54,760
Speaker 3: from a non Western perspective, let's do it, Okay, Dylan,

998
00:59:55,000 --> 00:59:58,880
Speaker 3: Yes you're Russia. Just put yourself in that state of

999
00:59:58,880 --> 00:59:59,880
Speaker 3: mind congratulation.

1000
01:00:00,480 --> 01:00:04,800
Speaker 2: Hello, it's me anthropomorphic Russia, Dystoa.

1001
01:00:05,160 --> 01:00:08,920
Speaker 3: Okay, Dylan's Russia and Dylan as Russia. You've got a

1002
01:00:08,960 --> 01:00:12,320
Speaker 3: lot of a very specific resource you need to move it.

1003
01:00:12,640 --> 01:00:15,480
Speaker 3: You also have a ton of people who genuinely can't

1004
01:00:15,520 --> 01:00:18,880
Speaker 3: wait to buy it, and so you logically ask yourself, well,

1005
01:00:18,880 --> 01:00:22,040
Speaker 3: who the heck are these bozos from the West to interfere?

1006
01:00:22,280 --> 01:00:27,080
Speaker 3: Why on earth can't I Daddy Dylan or Philan Daiga

1007
01:00:27,200 --> 01:00:31,160
Speaker 3: as a willing seller? Why can't I do business with

1008
01:00:31,280 --> 01:00:35,520
Speaker 3: a willing buyer? It's my stuff, it's their money. I mean,

1009
01:00:36,080 --> 01:00:37,840
Speaker 3: I was thinking of it this way. This is imperfect.

1010
01:00:37,880 --> 01:00:42,840
Speaker 3: But let's say we're in Georgia and we're selling a

1011
01:00:42,880 --> 01:00:46,840
Speaker 3: few cars to someone out west in Arizona. Why the

1012
01:00:46,840 --> 01:00:51,280
Speaker 3: hell is Maine inserting itself in the conversation, Like, what

1013
01:00:51,320 --> 01:00:53,240
Speaker 3: do you have to do with us Maine? Right? And

1014
01:00:53,280 --> 01:00:59,520
Speaker 3: then Maine might say, oh, we care about emissions and

1015
01:01:00,120 --> 01:01:04,040
Speaker 3: Stephen king in lobster roles, but making emissions. But then

1016
01:01:04,200 --> 01:01:06,640
Speaker 3: the more cynical would say, well, Maine just has its

1017
01:01:06,640 --> 01:01:11,080
Speaker 3: own cars, sayn't care about the environment or the greater good.

1018
01:01:11,760 --> 01:01:15,120
Speaker 3: They prefer people in Arizona by their cars and not yours,

1019
01:01:15,400 --> 01:01:18,360
Speaker 3: so they're going to shut you down, Georgia. There's no

1020
01:01:18,480 --> 01:01:23,120
Speaker 3: high fluting, altruistic concern. There's just their concern about making

1021
01:01:23,360 --> 01:01:25,919
Speaker 3: more money in the car market. How do we feel

1022
01:01:25,920 --> 01:01:26,920
Speaker 3: about that analogy?

1023
01:01:27,240 --> 01:01:29,960
Speaker 4: I think it's good, and it is a product of

1024
01:01:30,000 --> 01:01:32,560
Speaker 4: all the capitalism shenanigans that we always talk about, So

1025
01:01:32,600 --> 01:01:35,320
Speaker 4: I don't know if it's good in general, but it's

1026
01:01:35,320 --> 01:01:36,080
Speaker 4: a good analogy.

1027
01:01:36,240 --> 01:01:39,040
Speaker 2: It's a really good analogy. It's making me think about

1028
01:01:39,160 --> 01:01:43,280
Speaker 2: the members of the G seven and what an interesting

1029
01:01:43,520 --> 01:01:47,480
Speaker 2: group of countries to impose those sanctions and tell you

1030
01:01:47,520 --> 01:01:50,880
Speaker 2: what to do as Russia, right, especially if you take

1031
01:01:50,880 --> 01:01:52,320
Speaker 2: it all the way back to the context of World

1032
01:01:52,360 --> 01:01:57,840
Speaker 2: War Two, when you're looking at Canada, France, Germany, Italy, Japan,

1033
01:01:58,120 --> 01:02:00,960
Speaker 2: the United Kingdom, and the United States. Like, you're talking

1034
01:02:01,000 --> 01:02:04,200
Speaker 2: about people, you know, countries from both sides of that

1035
01:02:04,320 --> 01:02:07,920
Speaker 2: war that you then got embroiled in the Cold War with,

1036
01:02:08,960 --> 01:02:12,320
Speaker 2: and they're just telling you what to do because they

1037
01:02:12,360 --> 01:02:13,760
Speaker 2: don't like what you did before.

1038
01:02:15,000 --> 01:02:18,959
Speaker 3: Yeah, where do you get off, buddy? Is what both

1039
01:02:19,000 --> 01:02:19,520
Speaker 3: sides are.

1040
01:02:21,040 --> 01:02:24,080
Speaker 2: Listen here made Well, it really is interesting because for me,

1041
01:02:24,280 --> 01:02:26,560
Speaker 2: just depending on where you live, you're going to hear

1042
01:02:27,520 --> 01:02:30,640
Speaker 2: the perspective of that country, right and the powers of

1043
01:02:30,640 --> 01:02:33,479
Speaker 2: whatever country you're in right now. So when you think

1044
01:02:33,520 --> 01:02:39,040
Speaker 2: about those specific countries inmposing their own will on you

1045
01:02:39,760 --> 01:02:42,920
Speaker 2: like that, I can imagine it being a very f

1046
01:02:43,040 --> 01:02:45,520
Speaker 2: you kind of situation and response.

1047
01:02:46,120 --> 01:02:50,080
Speaker 3: One hundred percent. Yeah, we're not we're not arguing or

1048
01:02:50,240 --> 01:02:54,840
Speaker 3: we're not staking a flag on any particular hill here.

1049
01:02:55,000 --> 01:02:58,760
Speaker 3: We're saying the logic and the perspective of these of

1050
01:02:58,800 --> 01:03:01,360
Speaker 3: these various stakeholders, these forces in conflict.

1051
01:03:01,640 --> 01:03:01,840
Speaker 4: You know.

1052
01:03:01,920 --> 01:03:06,000
Speaker 3: Add to that, let's say you're China and you're getting

1053
01:03:06,000 --> 01:03:09,400
Speaker 3: a lot of pressure not to not to buy energy

1054
01:03:09,560 --> 01:03:13,560
Speaker 3: from Russia, and you're saying, well, I have to have this.

1055
01:03:13,960 --> 01:03:19,480
Speaker 3: I am incredibly quickly growing economy. And also, hey Sam,

1056
01:03:19,560 --> 01:03:22,400
Speaker 3: because you're talking uncle Sam, where the hell do you

1057
01:03:22,560 --> 01:03:25,000
Speaker 3: get off? Man? What are you You're telling me what

1058
01:03:25,120 --> 01:03:27,120
Speaker 3: to do with my money? What are you my dad?

1059
01:03:27,960 --> 01:03:29,040
Speaker 4: No, he's your uncle.

1060
01:03:29,960 --> 01:03:32,640
Speaker 2: Oh and you know what, you don't need to trade

1061
01:03:32,680 --> 01:03:35,960
Speaker 2: oil from Russia to China dollars. You also don't need

1062
01:03:35,960 --> 01:03:38,320
Speaker 2: a shattle fleet because you can just send that by

1063
01:03:38,400 --> 01:03:40,720
Speaker 2: train or buy a tanker truck or whatever.

1064
01:03:41,080 --> 01:03:41,560
Speaker 4: Yeah.

1065
01:03:41,760 --> 01:03:46,520
Speaker 3: Yeah, and so uh so there are other countries in

1066
01:03:46,560 --> 01:03:50,080
Speaker 3: the mix, right, the consumers of this supply chain, and

1067
01:03:50,120 --> 01:03:54,720
Speaker 3: they're saying, well, who are you to interfere? Why are

1068
01:03:54,800 --> 01:03:58,720
Speaker 3: you the authority? Was there some meeting where you guys

1069
01:03:58,760 --> 01:04:01,400
Speaker 3: decided that you get to make the rules, And then

1070
01:04:01,440 --> 01:04:03,840
Speaker 3: they would respond, yeah, it was the end of world warship?

1071
01:04:04,000 --> 01:04:05,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, And then we have this thing we get together.

1072
01:04:05,680 --> 01:04:07,320
Speaker 2: We call it the G seven. There's kind of eight

1073
01:04:07,360 --> 01:04:09,560
Speaker 2: because he used I guess involved, but whatever.

1074
01:04:11,120 --> 01:04:16,040
Speaker 3: Yeah, and there's like it gets so the names the

1075
01:04:16,160 --> 01:04:19,080
Speaker 3: names were just bad because they're like, oh, now it's

1076
01:04:19,120 --> 01:04:21,720
Speaker 3: the G six plus one and now it's you Now

1077
01:04:21,720 --> 01:04:25,640
Speaker 3: I got that six party. People love in international affairs,

1078
01:04:25,840 --> 01:04:28,600
Speaker 3: which is pretty much just anthropology with a tie on

1079
01:04:29,080 --> 01:04:34,200
Speaker 3: people love putting numbers in the names of official things,

1080
01:04:34,240 --> 01:04:36,720
Speaker 3: not just dates. It sounds more specific and legit.

1081
01:04:37,840 --> 01:04:38,120
Speaker 4: Yeah.

1082
01:04:38,280 --> 01:04:42,560
Speaker 2: Well, the other piece of complexity here is that Russia

1083
01:04:42,960 --> 01:04:45,840
Speaker 2: was at that table for a while. Oh yeah, up

1084
01:04:45,920 --> 01:04:50,720
Speaker 2: until twenty fourteen. I think that's crimea times. And that's

1085
01:04:50,800 --> 01:04:54,800
Speaker 2: when they got kicked out or left, I suppose. So

1086
01:04:55,040 --> 01:04:57,040
Speaker 2: it is weird that that same group of people where

1087
01:04:57,120 --> 01:04:59,280
Speaker 2: Russia used to have US Sea at the table, is

1088
01:04:59,320 --> 01:05:00,360
Speaker 2: imposing this stuff.

1089
01:05:02,560 --> 01:05:04,840
Speaker 3: Is it weird though, because it seems like a classic

1090
01:05:04,880 --> 01:05:06,600
Speaker 3: retaliatory breakup move to me.

1091
01:05:06,880 --> 01:05:09,320
Speaker 2: I think you're right. I think that's what makes it weird.

1092
01:05:09,440 --> 01:05:11,000
Speaker 2: That's a thing that makes it weird when they come

1093
01:05:11,040 --> 01:05:15,120
Speaker 2: back and they're like, oh hey, hey.

1094
01:05:15,720 --> 01:05:18,680
Speaker 3: Yeah, those are and look, a lot of people involved

1095
01:05:18,680 --> 01:05:24,160
Speaker 3: in those negotiations are professional bureaucrats who aren't making direct

1096
01:05:24,240 --> 01:05:27,680
Speaker 3: money off shadow fleet deals, and a lot of them

1097
01:05:27,680 --> 01:05:31,200
Speaker 3: are actually just so you know, folks, pretty collegiate with

1098
01:05:31,280 --> 01:05:34,400
Speaker 3: each other. They're like, oh, Darren, it's good to see

1099
01:05:34,400 --> 01:05:37,360
Speaker 3: you again. Man. This Black Sea stuff is crazy, right,

1100
01:05:37,960 --> 01:05:39,120
Speaker 3: did you check out the buffet?

1101
01:05:39,880 --> 01:05:42,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, we do have to do something about that, but

1102
01:05:42,440 --> 01:05:43,560
Speaker 2: for now, you.

1103
01:05:43,520 --> 01:05:46,000
Speaker 3: Know, yeah, yeah, do you have do you still have

1104
01:05:46,040 --> 01:05:49,400
Speaker 3: the shellfish thing because they got they got shrimp over here. Weird.

1105
01:05:49,440 --> 01:05:51,400
Speaker 3: It's usually usually don't have shrinks.

1106
01:05:51,400 --> 01:05:53,520
Speaker 2: It's the langesteine ones with you know the heads.

1107
01:05:54,200 --> 01:05:56,080
Speaker 4: Yeah, you gotta watch out for that contamination.

1108
01:05:56,560 --> 01:05:58,600
Speaker 3: Yeah, no, that's a good point. That's a good point.

1109
01:05:58,760 --> 01:06:00,800
Speaker 3: People are dying, you know, I want your throat to

1110
01:06:00,800 --> 01:06:01,200
Speaker 3: close up.

1111
01:06:01,320 --> 01:06:03,880
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, So I guess we should start

1112
01:06:03,880 --> 01:06:04,720
Speaker 2: the meeting or whatever.

1113
01:06:04,760 --> 01:06:09,000
Speaker 3: But I guess okay, hang on, let me let me

1114
01:06:09,000 --> 01:06:14,680
Speaker 3: show you guys this tiktokal. I mean, that is kind

1115
01:06:14,720 --> 01:06:17,280
Speaker 3: of how it goes. And we're we know, we're being

1116
01:06:17,400 --> 01:06:21,040
Speaker 3: dark gallows humor casual about this, but it leads us

1117
01:06:21,080 --> 01:06:25,400
Speaker 3: to some very serious questions the billion ruble question, and

1118
01:06:25,440 --> 01:06:27,200
Speaker 3: we're we're just doing that to be cute. We're not

1119
01:06:27,200 --> 01:06:30,840
Speaker 3: going to do the equivalency. The billion ruble question is

1120
01:06:30,840 --> 01:06:34,560
Speaker 3: what happens next. We all know enforcement is spotty. Customers

1121
01:06:34,600 --> 01:06:38,520
Speaker 3: keep buying, Russia keeps selling and sailing as well. But

1122
01:06:38,640 --> 01:06:41,320
Speaker 3: we can confirm the next time you look out at

1123
01:06:41,320 --> 01:06:44,200
Speaker 3: a tanker or a cargo ship, pay attention to that flag.

1124
01:06:44,520 --> 01:06:46,560
Speaker 3: It could be hiding the stuff they don't want you

1125
01:06:46,680 --> 01:06:48,959
Speaker 3: to know. We got it, guys, we got to ask

1126
01:06:49,200 --> 01:06:54,840
Speaker 3: anybody with merchant, marine, naval or general maritime experience to

1127
01:06:55,040 --> 01:06:58,320
Speaker 3: contact us. We want to hear your thoughts, folks. We

1128
01:06:58,360 --> 01:07:00,800
Speaker 3: want to hear what you have heard about this, especially

1129
01:07:00,840 --> 01:07:03,200
Speaker 3: if you're in a different country and we want to

1130
01:07:03,240 --> 01:07:07,040
Speaker 3: know how the narrative is being spun to you. So

1131
01:07:07,400 --> 01:07:09,680
Speaker 3: call us on the phone, always send us an email,

1132
01:07:09,840 --> 01:07:11,520
Speaker 3: or find us on the lines by.

1133
01:07:11,360 --> 01:07:13,640
Speaker 4: All means do those things. You can find us on

1134
01:07:13,760 --> 01:07:16,760
Speaker 4: the aforementioned lines at the handle conspiracy stuff where we

1135
01:07:16,800 --> 01:07:18,800
Speaker 4: exist on Facebook with our Facebook group here is where

1136
01:07:18,800 --> 01:07:21,880
Speaker 4: it gets crazy. On xa, Twitter, and on YouTube. We

1137
01:07:21,920 --> 01:07:24,560
Speaker 4: have video content for you just to just roll around in,

1138
01:07:24,680 --> 01:07:27,800
Speaker 4: like Daddy Vlad Smog and his pile of rubles. You

1139
01:07:27,800 --> 01:07:29,840
Speaker 4: can also find this on Instagram and TikTok at the

1140
01:07:29,880 --> 01:07:31,320
Speaker 4: handle conspiracy stuff show.

1141
01:07:31,640 --> 01:07:34,439
Speaker 2: We have a phone number. It is one eight three

1142
01:07:34,600 --> 01:07:40,000
Speaker 2: three std WYTK. Turn those letters into numbers and then

1143
01:07:40,080 --> 01:07:42,360
Speaker 2: give the number a call when you call, and give

1144
01:07:42,360 --> 01:07:44,160
Speaker 2: yourself a cool nickname and let us know if we

1145
01:07:44,160 --> 01:07:46,960
Speaker 2: can use your name and message within the message. If

1146
01:07:46,960 --> 01:07:48,960
Speaker 2: you would instead like to send us an email, you

1147
01:07:49,000 --> 01:07:49,680
Speaker 2: can do that too.

1148
01:07:49,760 --> 01:07:53,520
Speaker 3: We are the entities that read each piece of correspondence

1149
01:07:53,560 --> 01:07:56,320
Speaker 3: we receive. Be well aware yet out a fraid. Sometimes

1150
01:07:56,360 --> 01:07:59,600
Speaker 3: the void rights back. You can contact us on the email,

1151
01:08:00,160 --> 01:08:04,200
Speaker 3: contact us in the crossroads at midnight or a mirror

1152
01:08:04,760 --> 01:08:09,280
Speaker 3: in the dark. Also check out our locally run numbers

1153
01:08:09,280 --> 01:08:13,240
Speaker 3: stations thanks to Illumination Global Unlimited. You know, just pop

1154
01:08:13,280 --> 01:08:17,040
Speaker 3: by ask us for a random fact conspiracy at iHeartRadio

1155
01:08:17,160 --> 01:08:34,759
Speaker 3: dot com.

1156
01:08:34,880 --> 01:08:36,960
Speaker 2: Stuff they Don't Want You to Know is a production

1157
01:08:37,080 --> 01:08:41,599
Speaker 2: of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app,

1158
01:08:41,680 --> 01:08:46,040
Speaker 2: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.