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Speaker 2: Slash audio. All right, welcome to hoops tonight. You're at
Speaker 2: the volume heavy Saturday. Everybody. Oh loo. If you guys
Speaker 2: are having a great start to your weekend, well, we
Speaker 2: have our twenty twenty five NBA Finals between the Oklahoma
Speaker 2: City Thunder in the Indiana Pacers. As the tail end
Speaker 2: of the series went more or less as I kind
Speaker 2: of expected it would at the beginning of the series.
Speaker 2: I thought that the Pacers would win in six. The
Speaker 2: only thing that got kind of flipped around is the
Speaker 2: Pacers stole an extra game in New York and the
Speaker 2: Knicks stole an extra game in Indiana. But the Knicks
Speaker 2: actually came out and brought a decent amount of fight
Speaker 2: through the first two quarters, dominated the offensive glass, but
Speaker 2: way too many mistakes throughout, especially in their transition defense,
Speaker 2: especially with like miss free throws and just turnovers things
Speaker 2: along those lines. And ultimately, the team that was more
Speaker 2: disciplined and that had a kind of a more attention
Speaker 2: to detail throughout the season and a team that practiced
Speaker 2: playing a sharper brand of basketball got the job done.
Speaker 2: And we're gonna be talking about that. Off the top,
Speaker 2: we'll talk a little bit about the game itself, We'll
Speaker 2: look let ahead to the NBA Finals for a little bit.
Speaker 2: We'll talk about the Knicks and just some of my
Speaker 2: frustrations with them and what the future looks like. And
Speaker 2: then at the tail end of the show, we'll take
Speaker 2: ten to fifteen minutes of questions from our chats. Make
Speaker 2: sure you guys get some questions in the chat. You guys
Speaker 2: are the job before we get started. Subscribe to the
Speaker 2: Hoops to Night YouTube channels you don't miss any more
Speaker 2: of our videos. Follow me on Twitter at underscore Jason
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Speaker 2: great work on our social media feeds on Twitter, Instagram, Facebook,
Speaker 2: and TikTok. Make sure you guys follow us there, and
Speaker 2: last but not least, keep dropping those questions in the
Speaker 2: chat so that we can get to them at the
Speaker 2: tail end of the show. When we finish here tonight,
Speaker 2: we're going to be moving over to Playback that's playback
Speaker 2: dot tv slash Hoops Tonight. There we're going to be
Speaker 2: taking callers, watching some film, just hanging out kind of
Speaker 2: like an inful role basketball hour that we have as
Speaker 2: the Hoops Tonight community, just kind of having fun. We
Speaker 2: bring fans up from the teams that we got some
Speaker 2: Pacers fans that I'm looking forward to having their moment tonight.
Speaker 2: If you guys want to join us over there, just
Speaker 2: go to playback dot tv slash Hoops tonight as soon
Speaker 2: as we finish here on YouTube. All right, let's talk
Speaker 2: some basketball. So I want to start by just saying
Speaker 2: congratulations to the Pacers and to Pacers fans. This is
Speaker 2: a huge deal making it to the finals. If you
Speaker 2: don't think so, all you have to do is look
Speaker 2: around in recent NBA history and look at how inconsistent
Speaker 2: anybody's been in terms of getting to the finals since
Speaker 2: Katie left the Warriors. And one of the things that
Speaker 2: I think has stood out to me in a big
Speaker 2: way in this particular playoff run is these two teams
Speaker 2: that have made it. They're obviously talent. There's talent involved,
Speaker 2: right even with Indiana, like Pascal Siakam's a hell of
Speaker 2: a player, Tyres Haliburn is a hell of a player,
Speaker 2: nem Hardnee Smith, Turner going to the bench, getting contributions
Speaker 2: from guys like Thomas Bryant, Nobi Toppa. We're gonna be
Speaker 2: talking about all these guys today. But I would say
Speaker 2: the Pacers are not necessarily the most talented roster in
Speaker 2: the league in terms of just overwhelming talent. The Thunder
Speaker 2: definitely have a lot of talent, but they're not, you know,
Speaker 2: like what the Celtics were last year in terms of
Speaker 2: like just a bunch of like certified, like six like
Speaker 2: certified high level veteran starters that have been in wars
Speaker 2: and that have been super experienced through previous playoff runs
Speaker 2: and like the specifically looking at the compared to other
Speaker 2: like super talented teams in recent NBA history, like the
Speaker 2: Kevin Durant Warriors, or like Lebron Dwayne Wade, Chris Boshet,
Speaker 2: they're not on that level. But they just put together
Speaker 2: one of the most dominant seasons through to the end
Speaker 2: of the Conference finals that we've seen in recent NBA history.
Speaker 2: And it's a casual reminder for all of us that
Speaker 2: when you play great basketball, it makes it a lot
Speaker 2: easier to win. Like, make no mistake, guys, this series
Speaker 2: was won. This series Pacers Knicks was one on the margins.
Speaker 2: The Pacers scored more than twice as many points off
Speaker 2: of turnovers in this series than the Knicks did before tonight,
Speaker 2: and then they put the nail in the coffin with
Speaker 2: a thirty four point in transition night point off of
Speaker 2: turnover night thirty four points off of turnovers for the Pacers,
Speaker 2: thirteen points off of turnovers for the Knicks. Gigantic margin.
Speaker 2: And as far as like any sort of you know, oh,
Speaker 2: or we're selling out to the offensive glass. That's why
Speaker 2: we're not getting and we're not getting back in transition,
Speaker 2: And we're gonna talk a little bit about that with
Speaker 2: the Knicks in a little bit as they put together
Speaker 2: quite possibly the most embarrassing night of transition defense I've
Speaker 2: ever watched is the Pacers in a must win elimination
Speaker 2: game just got leak out after leak out after leakout.
Speaker 2: But like whatever offensive rebound advantage there was coming into tonight,
Speaker 2: the Knicks got just two and a half points more
Speaker 2: on second chance points than the Pacers did. The Pacers
Speaker 2: dominated this series on the margins. Talent goes a long way,
Speaker 2: I would argue on paper, this Knicks team is flat
Speaker 2: out more talented than the Pacers, which is why we
Speaker 2: talked about when the Knicks were at their best. They
Speaker 2: actually had moments in this series where they looked like
Speaker 2: a better team. Brief moments, but moments. But that's not
Speaker 2: all that goes into making a good basketball team. You
Speaker 2: have to win by playing great basketball. It doesn't matter
Speaker 2: who's on the floor. If you're not playing great basketball,
Speaker 2: you're not going to win. And talent can bring a
Speaker 2: certain amount of great basketball to the table by sheer
Speaker 2: force of competitive will and that talent. But it can't
Speaker 2: cross all the boxes. It can't do all the things
Speaker 2: that you need to do to win games. I talked
Speaker 2: about coming into tonight. If you guys, remember I said,
Speaker 2: I know what to expect from the Pacers. I know
Speaker 2: they're going to pick up full court and bring just
Speaker 2: a hillacious defensive effort. Andrew and Emhart tonight just like
Speaker 2: single handedly chop the head off the Knicks offense all
Speaker 2: night by just making Jalen Brunson's life a living hell.
Speaker 2: All of those turnovers are forced by that ball pressure,
Speaker 2: by playing passing lanes, by maintaining a simple defensive identity
Speaker 2: that this team has had for damn near six months now.
Speaker 2: This is who they are. This is what they do
Speaker 2: every single game. Oh you scored, we don't care, We're
Speaker 2: already running. You see it, Like when you watch the Pacers,
Speaker 2: you can see it when a dude gets an advantage
Speaker 2: and goes all the way in for a layup, dudes
Speaker 2: are already starting running the other way because they know
Speaker 2: they have an opportunity to erase that quickly with a
Speaker 2: kick ahead pass. There is even just down the stretch
Speaker 2: of the game, just the quick whirling actions at the
Speaker 2: top of the key, two man action, three man action,
Speaker 2: steady diet of Tyrese Haliburton on ball, like picking catapart
Speaker 2: with floaters, making simple reads to guys slipping out of
Speaker 2: screens like ob topping out to the top of the
Speaker 2: key or Obi topping slipping down the lane for a dunk.
Speaker 2: Just easy read, Oh, cat's too far, or cats coming
Speaker 2: up to the level and putting two on the ball.
Speaker 2: We're just gonna drop it back to Obi top in
Speaker 2: that's top of the key for three. Oh cats up
Speaker 2: at the level and they're not tagging the low man,
Speaker 2: and we're running a stack action and someone's slipping to
Speaker 2: the top of the key topp ens rolling hit him
Speaker 2: with the bounce pass. He's dunking it with one hand.
Speaker 2: There is a steady basketball identity that has been built
Speaker 2: out from the top down with the pacers that carries
Speaker 2: them into a situation where then their talent can put
Speaker 2: them over the top. And yes, there have been moments
Speaker 2: Aaron E. Smith's shooting in Game one, right, Tyre's Halliburton
Speaker 2: throughout the series, Pascal Siakam tonight, just getting bucket after bucket.
Speaker 2: There's a lot of talent there, but the talent is
Speaker 2: put in position to succeed because the Pacers have put
Speaker 2: in the work to make themselves an extremely sharp and
Speaker 2: discipline basketball team. Let me just put it to you
Speaker 2: in a very basic way. Teams that don't get back
Speaker 2: in transition and give up layup lines off of made
Speaker 2: baskets are not champion basketball teams. They are not champions.
Speaker 2: Champions don't do that. Champions don't make silly, sloppy mistakes
Speaker 2: over over and over again. They don't make fixable mistakes
Speaker 2: over and over again. They identify their mistakes, they rectify them.
Speaker 2: I'd argue this was in Game six, the worst transition
Speaker 2: defense night that the Knicks had several possessions where all
Speaker 2: five dudes are south of the free throw line, meaning
Speaker 2: there's nobody up at the top of the key ready
Speaker 2: in back court balance. I saw multiple examples a couple
Speaker 2: of guys that have caught Landry Shaman and Mitchell Robinson
Speaker 2: in situations where they're back, but they're not paying attention
Speaker 2: and someone's behind them. Like, that's basic stuff. Ball rim
Speaker 2: spread out to shooters. That's literally the process of transition defense.
Speaker 2: If you have your balance set, meaning as if you've
Speaker 2: got a driver and a roller coming off the top
Speaker 2: of the key, you have your guys relocate off the
Speaker 2: corner so that there's somebody north of the foul line
Speaker 2: that can get back in transition. This is basic stuff. Guys.
Speaker 2: We teach this in high school. This is not advanced
Speaker 2: basketball schematics. Floor balance, get back, stop ball, protect the
Speaker 2: rim at the very least make them make a three.
Speaker 2: But I mean there were there was a missed free throw,
Speaker 2: a miss free throw for the Knicks. I think it
Speaker 2: was kat where the Pacers just swung the ball off
Speaker 2: the floor and got a wide open three for Aeronniemith
Speaker 2: on a free throw. That that is just straight up
Speaker 2: not a championship basketball team. You don't see the Pacers
Speaker 2: making those kinds of mistakes. You don't see the Thunder
Speaker 2: making those kinds of mistakes. And it's just a casual reminder,
Speaker 2: Like we can talk about player movement this summer, we
Speaker 2: can talk about theoretical theoretical basketball fit for Yannis with
Speaker 2: Victor woman Yama on the Spurs and the Knicks. We
Speaker 2: could talk about with the Knicks, like what if they
Speaker 2: trade Cat for Kde or something like that. None of
Speaker 2: it matters if you don't use the regular season to
Speaker 2: practice playing great basketball, because ultimately it's gonna be what
Speaker 2: decides your fate. The Knicks had so many chances to
Speaker 2: win this game. Thirty four points off of turnovers, you're
Speaker 2: dead on a rival. I just thought it was such
Speaker 2: an interesting juxtaposition in this series, two teams, very talented.
Speaker 2: Nick's probably more talented Knicks when they're at their best,
Speaker 2: look a little bit better. Didn't matter because the Pacers
Speaker 2: were steady. The Pacers were steady and played Pacers basketball
Speaker 2: and just waited for the Knicks to soil themselves, and
Speaker 2: inevitably they did. Yeah, it doesn't matter who you are.
Speaker 2: You can run the floor. It doesn't matter who you are.
Speaker 2: You can do these basic things that Rick Carlisle has
Speaker 2: these guys doing on every single possession, and you will
Speaker 2: grab a ton of low hanging fruit and you're gonna
Speaker 2: give yourself a great chance to win games. Pascal Siakam
Speaker 2: was absolutely amazing tonight. He's a classic example of what
Speaker 2: I'm talking about with those runouts. Sorry, the ESPN website
Speaker 2: isn't pulling up the box score, is gonna just play
Speaker 2: an ad. There's a There's this thing that Pascal Siakam
Speaker 2: has been doing this entire postseason, just pushing the ball
Speaker 2: up the floor, like every time that there's any sort
Speaker 2: of opportunity, he's leaking out and it's just they're throwing
Speaker 2: it to him like he's a wide receiver run in
Speaker 2: his street and he's just catching it and making a
Speaker 2: quick move against some one on one or maybe getting
Speaker 2: a dunk. He gets all sorts of opportunities like that,
Speaker 2: the pick and pop action, just hitting important threes at
Speaker 2: the top of the key, the quick ISOs, the quick
Speaker 2: turnarounds over both shoulders, the getting to the foul line. Like,
Speaker 2: Siakam was an absolute monster tonight. Andrew Nemhard was doing
Speaker 2: such a good job on Jalen Brunson. You could literally
Speaker 2: see the frustration building to like a fever pitch. I
Speaker 2: was texting Jackson during the game. I was like, We're
Speaker 2: like one more hard bump in like a fifteen point
Speaker 2: game from this turning into some sort of physical altercation
Speaker 2: between Brunson and Nemhard because they were like jawn at
Speaker 2: each other. But that's the thing Nemhard like, I admire
Speaker 2: the hell out of this from basketball players. Nedmar had
Speaker 2: a rough series offensively, couldn't make a shot to save
Speaker 2: his life. A lot of like uncharacteristic decisions on drives
Speaker 2: and in the decision zone, kind of there in the
Speaker 2: middle of the floor. But like, what do I always say?
Speaker 2: What do I always say? Just make a play, find
Speaker 2: a way to do something that helps your team win
Speaker 2: the game. And Aaron Nesmiths having an ankle issue. I
Speaker 2: don't know if that was the reason why they did
Speaker 2: the switch today or if Nemhar just straight up went
Speaker 2: to Rick Carlisle and said, Hey, I'm sucking on offense
Speaker 2: right now. Give me something where I can like pour
Speaker 2: my heart and soul into it and try to make
Speaker 2: something happen. But he just did as good a job
Speaker 2: guarding of one of the best point guards in the
Speaker 2: league as you'll see. And then you could tell he
Speaker 2: was leaving a jump shot short. Then he has two
Speaker 2: massive threes in the second half, and on those threes,
Speaker 2: you can you'd literally see Nemhard like dip super low,
Speaker 2: even though he's wide open. You could see him dip
Speaker 2: super low to get his legs into the shot, and
Speaker 2: it's like, just make one, just make one, and then
Speaker 2: it doesn't matter that he had a rough series. No
Speaker 2: one cares about Nemhart having a rough series now because
Speaker 2: in Game six he locked Jalen Brunton up and hit
Speaker 2: a couple of huge baskets down the stretch, a couple
Speaker 2: of big drop coverage shots too. Like he stayed in
Speaker 2: it mentally, never let go of the rope, and found
Speaker 2: a way to leave a lasting imprint on the series.
Speaker 2: But before it was done, Obi top In I thought
Speaker 2: there were several key sequences tonight where he made plays
Speaker 2: that kind of were like, uh, like what I would
Speaker 2: consider like ceiling raising type of plays were not necessarily
Speaker 2: in the flow of the game, but like shots that
Speaker 2: are being conceded and you have no choice but to
Speaker 2: beat the coverage by knocking down those shots. Big pick
Speaker 2: and pop three at the top of the key late
Speaker 2: that role, late in the game, there was a three
Speaker 2: that he hit kind of off of movement in the
Speaker 2: I think it was an early second quarter where there's
Speaker 2: a really good defensive possession from the Knicks where everybody's
Speaker 2: doing all the right stuff, and then I think Kat
Speaker 2: was lazy on one little dho at the top of
Speaker 2: the key and he just rises and fires from like
Speaker 2: twenty six feet off the move, rises up and knocks
Speaker 2: it down. His run, his lane running and transition all
Speaker 2: series long. He was awesome. Thomas Bryant three massive threes
Speaker 2: out of the corners in this game tonight. Every single
Speaker 2: one of them felt like a huge shotgun blast to
Speaker 2: the chest for the Knicks, just massive, massive shots. And
Speaker 2: then I thought, Tyre's Halliburton. You know, he's been facing
Speaker 2: the brunt of the aggressive aggression in the Knicks coverages
Speaker 2: in this series and like taking simple reads like they're
Speaker 2: in that second half, he really started to assert himself
Speaker 2: in control of the offense and like, oh, you're leaving
Speaker 2: Topping on the pop, I'm gonna hit this. Oh you're
Speaker 2: leaving Topping on the role, I'm gonna hit this. Okay,
Speaker 2: you're gonna let me operate in this soft ass February
Speaker 2: drop coverage. I'm just gonna hit floater after floater after
Speaker 2: floater out that Halliburton was fantastic, just a just a
Speaker 2: wired to wire, super super impressive playoff run from the Pacers,
Speaker 2: and now they're in the final.
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Speaker 2: Now, looking ahead to the finals, I think the first
Speaker 2: key is going to be managing ball pressure, as you guys.
Speaker 2: As you guys have seen in this series, there have
Speaker 2: been several stretches where the Nicks did some damage to
Speaker 2: the Pacers with their ball pressure. The thunder Age is
Speaker 2: way better at it. They've got better defenders, more of
Speaker 2: the better matchups too. They're not like big lanky dudes
Speaker 2: that are not necessarily as quick footed as Tyre's Halliburton.
Speaker 2: They've got guys that are quicker than Tyres Haliburton. That'll
Speaker 2: be on him the entire series, and so everything's going
Speaker 2: to be about managing that ball pressure. I think it's
Speaker 2: going to be vitally important for the Pacers to have
Speaker 2: success attacking in the post through Pascal Siakam and Myles Turner.
Speaker 2: One of the reasons why is if Haliburton does his job,
Speaker 2: which is handle the ball pressure, doesn't turn the ball over,
Speaker 2: and OKASE is super aggressive with their coverages two on
Speaker 2: the ball, packing the paint, playing passing lanes, and Haliburton
Speaker 2: makes the passes and the Pacers shoot them out of it.
Speaker 2: Mark Dagnaut will default two more switching and to staying
Speaker 2: home off ball, and in that series, in that setting,
Speaker 2: it is no longer a Haliburton series in terms of
Speaker 2: ISO scoring the advantage. Again, the Thunders, they're small on
Speaker 2: the perimeter and so it's gotta be Siakam and as
Speaker 2: we saw in the Minnesota series and in the Denver series,
Speaker 2: it's extremely difficult to make post entries against the Thunder.
Speaker 2: They three quarter front, they full front, they bracket from behind,
Speaker 2: They do all sorts of stuff to make that passing
Speaker 2: angle difficult. And if OKC goes to switching and goes
Speaker 2: to staying home. The key to the series will be
Speaker 2: getting the ball to Siakam to turner deep seals, and
Speaker 2: then that being the entry point either high quality two's
Speaker 2: right at the front of the rim or drawing multiple
Speaker 2: defenders to get the defense in rotation. Ultimately, if you
Speaker 2: want the Pacers to play Pacers basketball, they're gonna have
Speaker 2: to manage ball pressure and they're gonna have to move
Speaker 2: the ball efficiently through Oklahoma City's aggressive defense, and it's
Speaker 2: gonna be a very very different challenge. I look at
Speaker 2: this series as a particularly tough one for the Pacers
Speaker 2: early on because they are just not exposed to this
Speaker 2: level of defense yet. The Bucks out obviously, We're horrendous
Speaker 2: all year, The Knicks were horrendous all year, The Cavs sneaky,
Speaker 2: were mediocre on defense for basically the second half of
Speaker 2: the year. This is arguably the greatest defense that we've
Speaker 2: seen in recent NBA history. So it's going to be
Speaker 2: a very very different sort of challenge for them. But
Speaker 2: they do in theory. What do I always say, what
Speaker 2: do you need to beat Oklahoma City's defense? You need size,
Speaker 2: you need playmaking, and you need shooting. And they do
Speaker 2: have the size it just comes in the form of Siakam, right.
Speaker 2: They have tons of playmaking talent and everyone can shoot,
Speaker 2: but it's in a matchup where the Pacers typically have
Speaker 2: a lot of success with their guard play TJ McConnell,
Speaker 2: Tyrese Halliburn, Andrew Nemhart, even Niesmith to a certain extent,
Speaker 2: Ben Mathern. In a series like this, those guys don't
Speaker 2: have the advantage all of a sudden. It's going to
Speaker 2: be a lot of pressure on Siakam to be that
Speaker 2: guy who's initiating the offense with size and then as
Speaker 2: a team playmaking out of it in finishing plays by
Speaker 2: knocking down shots, handling game plan tweaks. As I said,
Speaker 2: I think Dagnault will come out with their base pressure
Speaker 2: scheme and load up scheme, but I think it's very
Speaker 2: possible that they pivot out of that and the Pacers
Speaker 2: are going to have to have some different punches in
Speaker 2: their bag guarding she. On the other end of the floor,
Speaker 2: we saw the Timberwolves have more success in their series
Speaker 2: with quicker defenders on say, kind of like more of
Speaker 2: a beating him to spot style of approach and forcing
Speaker 2: him to shoot over the top the Pacers have lots
Speaker 2: of guys that can do that. The Pacers, in theory
Speaker 2: have personnel that matches up reasonably well with Oklahoma City.
Speaker 2: I'm actually a lot more bullish on the Pacers' ability
Speaker 2: to get stops against Oklahoma City that am on their
Speaker 2: ability to score, which is hilarious considering the strength of
Speaker 2: this Pacers team is their offense. But guarding Shee again,
Speaker 2: it's going to be a steady diet of Nie Smith
Speaker 2: and Nemhart and TJ McConnell beating him to spots, not
Speaker 2: getting handsy to where you can get in trouble with
Speaker 2: the whistle, and then forcing him into a bunch of
Speaker 2: mid range jump shots and then forcing kickouts again. The
Speaker 2: finals are stressful, totally different setting, totally different level of intensity,
Speaker 2: totally different media presence, totally different production quality. It is
Speaker 2: a foreign entity compared to the rest of the NBA Playoffs.
Speaker 2: There's a lot of young dudes in that Thunder locker room,
Speaker 2: and so you have to for Shae to pass and
Speaker 2: force these young, inexperienced players to knock down, catch and
Speaker 2: shoot jump shots. We are going to start I'm going
Speaker 2: to start watching film for Pacers. Thunder tomorrow morning. We
Speaker 2: will have a bunch of preview content coming out on Monday, Tuesday,
Speaker 2: Wednesday next week. I will keep you guys posted as
Speaker 2: soon as we have a more firm schedule. But keep
Speaker 2: an eye on my Twitter feed tomorrow morning because I'll
Speaker 2: probably be watching some of that film and just kind
Speaker 2: of tweeting out little things that I find interesting. But
Speaker 2: we will have our first bit of finals coverage starting
Speaker 2: on Monday on the Knicks front. Before we get to
Speaker 2: our mailbag. To put it very simply, we can talk
Speaker 2: about what they want to do with the roster. I
Speaker 2: think Karl Anthony Towns has proven pretty resoundingly to this
Speaker 2: point that he is a guy that has a certain ceiling.
Speaker 2: That ceiling is he is inconsistent as an offensive player
Speaker 2: and downright bad as a defensive player as the leverage
Speaker 2: and intensity of the situation gets higher later in the playoffs.
Speaker 2: And this is back to back years in the conference
Speaker 2: finals where I can almost like specifically point to him
Speaker 2: as a big part of why they lost, and it's
Speaker 2: there are just certain guys that are not built for
Speaker 2: this style of basketball, in this sort of setting, and
Speaker 2: to have a salary slot as large as cats for
Speaker 2: a player that is as damaging as he was as
Speaker 2: they were just picking him a part on defense in
Speaker 2: this game, way too deep in his drop, sometimes active
Speaker 2: up high but giving up easy pocket passes. At other
Speaker 2: times he's a brutal part of their bad transition defense.
Speaker 2: It's all of the above. So we can talk about
Speaker 2: pivot off of Cat, and that's what I would do.
Speaker 2: I would pivot off of Cat and I would build
Speaker 2: around defense around Brunson. This has to be a sharper, better,
Speaker 2: deeper defensive team. All that's fine. None of it matters
Speaker 2: if you don't play a sharper brand of basketball. And
Speaker 2: some of this is on tips. Tom Thibodeau is the
Speaker 2: coach of this team, and by the sixth game of
Speaker 2: the series, his team looked like it had no idea
Speaker 2: how to handle the Pacers in transition. And it wasn't like,
Speaker 2: oh my god, they're pushing the ball off the floor
Speaker 2: and we're doing our job, but they're just putting us
Speaker 2: in a blender of quick transition action. No, these are
Speaker 2: wide open, kick ahead, leak out dunks and wide open
Speaker 2: kickout threes. There is a reality with Tom Thibodeau that
Speaker 2: he trusts the top end of his roster so much
Speaker 2: that he leans on them so heavily that it's kind
Speaker 2: of impossible for him to be as detail oriented as
Speaker 2: he needs to be. How could you be that detail
Speaker 2: oriented when a guy's playing forty something minutes a night.
Speaker 2: There's too many opportunities for fatigue to enter into the equation.
Speaker 2: The Knicks have to, regardless of what roster changes are made,
Speaker 2: starting in early October next year, culturally, from the top down,
Speaker 2: embrace a sharper and more detail oriented brand of basketball.
Speaker 2: You lost your opportunity to go to the finals this
Speaker 2: year because you were an undisciplined team, not because you
Speaker 2: didn't have the talent to hang with the Pacers. Easy
Speaker 2: way to do that be more willing to use your bench.
Speaker 2: From day one, we're running a nine to ten man rotation.
Speaker 2: Here are basic defensive principles. Does that mean you need
Speaker 2: to pick a full court all series or all season. No,
Speaker 2: but come up with some basic things. We are going
Speaker 2: to pressure the ball after half court at a bare minimum,
Speaker 2: because that is an easy way to just make ball
Speaker 2: handlers uncomfortable, which can have all sorts of trickle down
Speaker 2: effects in the game. In general, I think the brunts
Speaker 2: and bridges o g Nnobi specifically heart bridges and Anonoby
Speaker 2: are just so good in transition. You got to try
Speaker 2: to feed as many transition opportunities as possible. And you're
Speaker 2: gonna do that with ball pressure at bare minimum, ball
Speaker 2: pressure at half court at a bare minimum, a basic
Speaker 2: set of like three different coverages that you trust and
Speaker 2: man a man situations based with Brunson and with Cat
Speaker 2: or whoever it is that you bring back, and then
Speaker 2: attention to detail throughout the season, making sure that these
Speaker 2: are sharp so you don't have breakdowns taking place in
Speaker 2: the playoffs where like dudes are pointing at each other
Speaker 2: like you're supposed to do this, You're supposed to do that.
Speaker 2: You looked like that all season. Not surprised that you
Speaker 2: looked like that when it came down when it came
Speaker 2: time to get the job done in the playoffs. There
Speaker 2: is a there is an order of operations to being
Speaker 2: a champion, and it starts in October with attention to detail.
Speaker 2: It's a mandatory tell me, tell me the time. Can
Speaker 2: can anybody think of like a sloppy basketball team that
Speaker 2: won the title. The Celtics last year weren't sloppy. The
Speaker 2: Nuggets weren't sloppy in twenty twenty three, the Warriors weren't sloppy,
Speaker 2: the Bucks weren't sloppy, the Lakers weren't sloppy. That's like
Speaker 2: a that's literally a non negotiable. You cannot get to
Speaker 2: the Promised Land if you practice playing sloppy basketball. So
Speaker 2: regardless of what the Knicks do this summer, that is
Speaker 2: a non negotiable. They need a basketball culture reset either.
Speaker 2: Someone needs to sit down with TIBs and be like, hey, dude,
Speaker 2: we got to change our approach. Stop riding everybody super
Speaker 2: high minutes, extend your rotation, and actually start holding these
Speaker 2: guys accountable to the details night in and night out
Speaker 2: throughout the regular season. That way, we can be the
Speaker 2: best version of ourselves when we get to June, when
Speaker 2: we get to may Or, if he's not up for
Speaker 2: it and you need to change a voice in the
Speaker 2: locker room, make a move and bring in a coach
Speaker 2: that can be the guy that highlights that low hanging fruit.
Speaker 2: The Pacers aren't going anywhere. The Celtics are going to
Speaker 2: be in a pivot year. Obviously, the Bucks are going
Speaker 2: to be in a pivot year. Obviously. The East is
Speaker 2: gonna be pretty open. But you're gonna be right back here,
Speaker 2: maybe in round two, maybe in round three dealing with
Speaker 2: the Pacers, And what am I gonna be saying? I
Speaker 2: know what I'm getting from the Pacers because the Pacers
Speaker 2: have a top down basketball identity, from Kevin Pritchard to
Speaker 2: Rick Carlisle, all the way down that roster, starting with
Speaker 2: Tyre's Halliburton. This is the way they play. They don't
Speaker 2: cut corners, and so they are always the very best
Speaker 2: version of themselves. And that's why they're going to the finals.
Speaker 2: All right, Jackson's gonna come on. We're gonna take some questions.
Speaker 3: Let's do it. First question, Pascal Siakam won Eastern Conference
Speaker 3: Finals MVP. Do you feel like Halliburton got snubbed?
Speaker 2: I'm gonna say no, just simply because there were stretches
Speaker 2: of this series where Tyre's Halliburton was somewhat, you know,
Speaker 2: disengaged as a product of the defensive scheme that he
Speaker 2: was facing. And I did think Siakam was more or
Speaker 2: less as good as Halliburton. It just manifests in different ways.
Speaker 2: Like with Tyre's Halliburton, He's always going to be better
Speaker 2: than what the box score will lead you to believe
Speaker 2: simply because of the simply because of the advantage creation aspect.
Speaker 2: But with Pascal Siakam, like he's been the guy who
Speaker 2: they've leaned on for like, oh, this isn't working, we
Speaker 2: need to create a shot, Like he's the guy. He's
Speaker 2: the one guy who can go get a bucket. And
Speaker 2: by the way, in the game to win thirty nine
Speaker 2: points in the game, four win thirty points in the game,
Speaker 2: six win thirty one points. So in three of their
Speaker 2: four wins he had over thirty points. I'm not going
Speaker 2: to call that a snub under any circumstances.
Speaker 3: He's such a stabilizer for them and such a floor razer.
Speaker 3: It's it's hard to think about teams that have their
Speaker 3: second best player. I think it's even though he was
Speaker 3: you know, the series MVP Halliburn is their best player.
Speaker 3: It's it's it's not that many examples of teams but
Speaker 3: their second best player is such a stabilizer for them.
Speaker 3: It's really interesting and impressive from his standpoint.
Speaker 2: He's a pretty consistent player too, with just the way
Speaker 2: that he runs. I will say he was rough in
Speaker 2: game five, and that was definitely unusual.
Speaker 1: One.
Speaker 2: The entire team was kind of bad in Game five,
Speaker 2: but yeah, that was definitely bad. The I also thought
Speaker 2: that he did a great job on Kat defensively tonight,
Speaker 2: kept stonewalling him on those like volleyball drives and was
Speaker 2: attacking the basketball and forcing him to lose control, like
Speaker 2: Sacham was just awesome. And I think, I mean, we
Speaker 2: can all admit this. I thought he'd like straight up,
Speaker 2: flat out outplayed cat headhead in the series.
Speaker 3: Yeah, definitely. And the I mean, we we on this
Speaker 3: show and you are not expecting the Pacers to win
Speaker 3: the finals, but if the Pacers win the finals, we're
Speaker 3: gonna have to have some Pascal Siakam conversations as he
Speaker 3: will now be the second best player on multiple different
Speaker 3: championship teams with multiple franchises. Like that is not that
Speaker 3: many people can say that.
Speaker 2: I think it's just a classic example of like the
Speaker 2: simple dynamic that you and I have talked about so
Speaker 2: many times over the season, and in terms of just
Speaker 2: like the whole playoff riser thing is real and it
Speaker 2: all comes down to some basic things to me, Like
Speaker 2: there's a certain like size and strength element to it.
Speaker 2: There's a certain versatile element to it. Those two things
Speaker 2: are vital because in the playoffs it just gets so physical,
Speaker 2: and teams game plan you, so if you don't have
Speaker 2: if you have too many weaknesses to expose rather than
Speaker 2: having a well rounded game, you'll run into issues. The
Speaker 2: third part of it is I'm I'm a huge believer
Speaker 2: that like, even amongst competitors, there's levels to competitiveness. I
Speaker 2: always joke about this, but like I would much rather
Speaker 2: play in terms of having a teammate a fox hole guy.
Speaker 2: I would much rather play with a guy who hates
Speaker 2: losing than a guy who loves basketball. Now, I want both,
Speaker 2: and the best players of all time are always both.
Speaker 2: But like I have a hard time relating to someone
Speaker 2: that doesn't like get fucking mad about losing, like angry,
Speaker 2: like viscerally upset about losing. Like to me, that emotion,
Speaker 2: that hatred of losing is what drives a basketball player
Speaker 2: to be detail oriented and to not cut corners and
Speaker 2: to do all the things you've got to do, and like,
Speaker 2: say what you want about you know some of these
Speaker 2: dudes like Andrew nemhard for instance, but like there is
Speaker 2: a there is like a sheer competitive fire, like he
Speaker 2: wanted to embarrass Jalen Brunson tonight down the stretch Nemhart did,
Speaker 2: and so like, yeah, like part of that playoff riser
Speaker 2: thing to me is always going to be that competitiveness,
Speaker 2: like do you have the will to fight more than
Speaker 2: the guy across from you?
Speaker 3: Yeah, and the Pacers have. I mean, you could probably
Speaker 3: say they've been a lot of their players, but specifically
Speaker 3: three in their starting lineup. I think Nie Smith and
Speaker 3: Nemhard and Pascal are all very much that type.
Speaker 2: Of player classic playoff risers.
Speaker 3: Uh super chat from jm Rciakam and Nie Smith the
Speaker 3: key to beating Oka. See what would it take for
Speaker 3: Indy to beat Okac four times?
Speaker 2: I'm gonna say yes to both of those because I
Speaker 2: think Nie Smith will be the primary matchup on Shay
Speaker 2: and uh if if Nie Smith can prevent Shae from
Speaker 2: getting easy dribble penetration so that it's not like you're
Speaker 2: badly compromised right off the bat over and over again
Speaker 2: with the screen navigation that he did in this series,
Speaker 2: I think that would go a long way. Jada McDaniels
Speaker 2: in the Conference finals, I thought did an awful job
Speaker 2: of containing the ball in like in kind of a
Speaker 2: way that was so weird to have me like rethinking
Speaker 2: like defensive player archetypes, and Nie Smith is the kind
Speaker 2: of archetype theoretically that is, like he is so laterally
Speaker 2: quick that he should be able to at least as
Speaker 2: long as he doesn't get screened, keep Shay reasonably in front.
Speaker 2: If he does, then Shay is going to be throwing
Speaker 2: kickouts to advantages that are like advantages but not like
Speaker 2: the oh my god, he got super deep into the
Speaker 2: paint and drew four bodies in and this is like
Speaker 2: a standstill, close out opportunity kind of thing. So Nie
Speaker 2: Smith is the key to the defensive matchup, and then
Speaker 2: Siakom to me is the key of the offensive matchup.
Speaker 2: Because I think there's a chance that Halliburton like straight
Speaker 2: up folds right to start this series like that that's
Speaker 2: on the table, like he's kind of done it against
Speaker 2: Dort before and it could be something that becomes a problem.
Speaker 3: Uh.
Speaker 2: But either way, if Halliburton's fantastic to start the series
Speaker 2: because of the coverages, I think Dagnaut will audible to
Speaker 2: switching and to staying home, and if he does, it's
Speaker 2: going to become a matchup attacking series, and it'll be
Speaker 2: I'll take it a step further. It'll be it'll be
Speaker 2: Nie Smith on Ball on Shay, It'll be Siakam attacking matchups.
Speaker 2: And then I think another guy that I would put
Speaker 2: as a key there is actually Ben Matherin, because I
Speaker 2: think Ben Mathern is one of the few guys who
Speaker 2: has the athleticism to like just to just break down
Speaker 2: Oklahoma City's defense at the point of attack.
Speaker 3: That's a good segue into our next question, which is
Speaker 3: who is the most important pacer on offense other than
Speaker 3: Halliburton and Siaco offense only.
Speaker 2: Okay, it'll be I want to take it a step
Speaker 2: further because Mathern is obviously going to be in somewhat
Speaker 2: of a limited role. I think Miles Turner hitting pick
Speaker 2: and pop three's is such a huge, like foundational thing,
Speaker 2: Like if he's not hitting pick and pop threes, then
Speaker 2: you can run drop. If you can run drop or
Speaker 2: I excuse me, not even drop, you can run at
Speaker 2: the level. If if you can bring your big up
Speaker 2: to the level and not have to worry about Turner
Speaker 2: slipping out of the screen and hitting threes, that's that's
Speaker 2: a huge that that's a huge upside to your defense.
Speaker 2: So like Turner hitting pick and pop threes, I think
Speaker 2: is huge. I would say down the roster shooting in general,
Speaker 2: shooting against really good closeouts. I think mathurd would probably
Speaker 2: fourth for me there, Like, I think Mathurin is going
Speaker 2: to be huge like them Hard to me, like it
Speaker 2: kind of is what he is. You know, I'm not
Speaker 2: counting on him to be like the dominant force, but actually,
Speaker 2: you know what, we should probably move them Hard up
Speaker 2: because if Halliburton does kind of succumb to the dort thing,
Speaker 2: Nemhard will be their point guard. And we looked in
Speaker 2: the regular season and in the footage we watched them,
Speaker 2: Hard was getting the ball over and over again.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I was gonna say tonight it felt like because
Speaker 3: of the ball pressure from Game five, it felt like
Speaker 3: they ran a handful more of those stacks may pick
Speaker 3: and rolls with Nemhard being the lead ball handle at
Speaker 3: Haliburton being the third guy to sort of hopefully do
Speaker 3: and I expect a lot of that, a lot of that.
Speaker 2: I think that's gonna have to be there. One of
Speaker 2: their pet actions in terms of like keeping them Halliburton
Speaker 2: involved when he's being denied it did seem like Nemhard
Speaker 2: got a little bit of his mojo back tonight, which
Speaker 2: I think would be key.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I agree. Next question, we'll take a couple more
Speaker 3: before playback. When was the last time that you can remember,
Speaker 3: if you can remember at all, that to both finals
Speaker 3: teams played a ten to eleven man rotation. It's kind
Speaker 3: of crazy that both teams are sort of following that
Speaker 3: same model a little bit.
Speaker 2: I know. I like, well, the Celtics were like pretty
Speaker 2: much running an eight man rotation last year. The Nuggets
Speaker 2: ran a tight rotation, the Warriors ran a little bit
Speaker 2: of a longer rotation. But I still think it was
Speaker 2: like it was like eight or nine yes that year
Speaker 2: because because it was like Looney and in Auto Porter
Speaker 2: Junior Jordan Poole. Yeah, I don't I can't think of one. Yeah, dude,
Speaker 2: that's that's that's crazy. Like, you know what's been interesting though,
Speaker 2: is like we all have our ideologies and like I
Speaker 2: even have like a list that I always give out
Speaker 2: when someone says, like, oh, what's the best way to
Speaker 2: build a basketball team, And I'm like, Okay, you want
Speaker 2: a skill guard, you want an athlete guard, you want
Speaker 2: a kind of a skinnier perimeter, perimeter wing, a bigger forward.
Speaker 2: All that sounds great, but like you kind of two things. One,
Speaker 2: you don't know what kind of roster you're gonnaend up getting,
Speaker 2: and you kind of have to build your team around
Speaker 2: what that roster is. And then two, like there are
Speaker 2: more there is more than one way to win a
Speaker 2: basketball game. They're just they're flat out is and so
Speaker 2: like what's super fascinating is like you can win a
Speaker 2: basketball game being the Indiana Pacers picking up full court,
Speaker 2: playing at absurd pace and blah blah blah. You could
Speaker 2: also win a basketball game being like the Dallas Mavericks
Speaker 2: last year and like walking the ball up the court
Speaker 2: with Luca and just like methodically walking teams now with
Speaker 2: half court offense, Like there's there's more than one way
Speaker 2: to skin a cat, so to speak like that. It
Speaker 2: just is it's fascinating to me that we've seen these
Speaker 2: two particular of their team's matchup, because it kind of
Speaker 2: felt very war of attritiony at times in this postseason.
Speaker 2: And these are the younger, deeper teams that play this
Speaker 2: like kind of hillacious style, but they also don't tax
Speaker 2: any of their players that much because they keep Fitts down.
Speaker 2: Like it's kind of like a super fascinating concept. I
Speaker 2: want to emphasize too, there are guys in these rotations that, like,
Speaker 2: if they were playing for your team, you probably wouldn't
Speaker 2: think they're as good as they look on the pacers,
Speaker 2: So like, don't don't underestimate the organizational element of making
Speaker 2: depth useful. Like like I like I watched Jordan Goodwin
Speaker 2: be okay and in other situations, but I watched him
Speaker 2: with the Lakers be fantastic because he's on a team
Speaker 2: that just needed an athletic guard that can do basic
Speaker 2: stuff like you need you need to like with your roster,
Speaker 2: draft players and go after players that fit an identity
Speaker 2: that matches your team so that in the regular season,
Speaker 2: whether you're using the fifteenth man or the eighth man,
Speaker 2: there's like this role that just like makes sense in
Speaker 2: your offense that like this guy's like to Obi Topping
Speaker 2: comes in and plays the same role that Siakam plays
Speaker 2: like literally and and it's a rough approximation of it,
Speaker 2: but he comes in and does the same thing. And
Speaker 2: because he has some useful skills that kind of fit
Speaker 2: into that role, it makes him a useful player, like
Speaker 2: I don't think it's a coincidence that Landry Shammitt looked
Speaker 2: useful in this series. Like land there are a lot
Speaker 2: of players like Lanzer Shammitt out there in the league
Speaker 2: that can play playoff minutes for you, as long as
Speaker 2: you set up the appropriate structure for them to thrive in.
Speaker 3: We'll take two more questions. This one's a super chat
Speaker 3: for Matt. Thank you for the super chat, he says.
Speaker 3: He says, not an NBA expert, but there seems to
Speaker 3: be some sort of intangible switch or crunch time magic
Speaker 3: to this Pacers team that I can't put my finger on.
Speaker 3: Is that crazy? What can you attribute that to?
Speaker 2: So I do Okay, I I think I'm gonna this
Speaker 2: is complicated because I think, on the one hand, I
Speaker 2: think it has as much to do with the other
Speaker 2: team letting go of the rope as it does with
Speaker 2: them them hitting a switch. I do think that they
Speaker 2: feel the magic a little bit like you could feel
Speaker 2: it in Game one, Like you could feel it in
Speaker 2: Game one where it's like, oh, like they know, they're
Speaker 2: like we've done this before, We're gonna do it again. Yeah,
Speaker 2: there's definitely a little bit of like they feel the magic.
Speaker 2: But at the same time, like I would equate it to,
Speaker 2: they play the same way no matter what, regardless of
Speaker 2: the time in the game. And there is a natural
Speaker 2: human nature piece when a team goes up by ten
Speaker 2: to fifteen points in the final four or five minutes
Speaker 2: where they just naturally relax, and that when you relax
Speaker 2: while the Pacers are still playing Pacers basketball just kind
Speaker 2: of naturally manifest in these like easy runouts and easy
Speaker 2: quick buckets, and that's more or less the genesis of it.
Speaker 3: Yeah, last question before we go over to playback, and
Speaker 3: next question, if you had to pick one big change
Speaker 3: for the next this summer between these two, would you,
Speaker 3: Jason Timp choose to trade Cat or fire Tips have.
Speaker 2: To choose one, have to choose one. I think I
Speaker 2: trade Cat. So this is complicated, but like, do you
Speaker 2: remember when in it was like Game three or four
Speaker 2: when Stam Van Gundy dropped that line about how like
Speaker 2: teams run because of their point guard, not because of
Speaker 2: their coach. Again, I don't necessarily think that's true, but
Speaker 2: I do think there's some truth to it in the
Speaker 2: sense that, like I watched, I've watched as a guy
Speaker 2: who's rooted for Lebron a lot over the years, Like
Speaker 2: I've watched Lebron have success with mediocre coaches because of
Speaker 2: his ability as an on court presence to bring the accountability,
Speaker 2: to bring the intensity in the in the experience and
Speaker 2: all that kind of stuff and even the decision making.
Speaker 2: I feel like trading Cat has a far greater potential
Speaker 2: to bring back useful players that fit within the identity
Speaker 2: of this team then getting rid of TIBs and just
Speaker 2: bringing in some new voice and seeing if that guy
Speaker 2: can fix all their problems. I think I do think
Speaker 2: that I do think that there needs to be like
Speaker 2: a sit down with Tis though in emphasize like and
Speaker 2: I would point out the obvious stuff with Delawn Wright
Speaker 2: and in Landra Shamant and be like, hey, like we
Speaker 2: have to kind of embrace the times and realize this
Speaker 2: is a faster, more transition oriented game. We need to
Speaker 2: go deeper into our bench. All right, guys, that's all
Speaker 2: we have for tonight. On YouTube, We're heading over to
Speaker 2: playback again. That's playback dot tv slash Oops tonight. We'll
Speaker 2: be taking callers and questions and stuff for at least
Speaker 2: forty five minutes or so, so make sure you guys
Speaker 2: head over there. We'll see you guys in just a
Speaker 2: few minutes. And for the YouTube crowd, we will be
Speaker 2: back on Monday morning with our first bit of NBA
Speaker 2: Finals preview content. We'll see you guys then. What's up guys?
Speaker 2: As always, I appreciate you for listening to and supporting
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Speaker 1: The volume