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Speaker 1: The volume.

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Speaker 2: The NBA Finals are almost here and every play could

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Speaker 2: Slash audio. All right, welcome to hoops tonight. You're at

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Speaker 2: the volume heavy Saturday. Everybody. Oh loo. If you guys

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Speaker 2: are having a great start to your weekend, well, we

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Speaker 2: have our twenty twenty five NBA Finals between the Oklahoma

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Speaker 2: City Thunder in the Indiana Pacers. As the tail end

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Speaker 2: of the series went more or less as I kind

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Speaker 2: of expected it would at the beginning of the series.

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Speaker 2: I thought that the Pacers would win in six. The

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Speaker 2: only thing that got kind of flipped around is the

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Speaker 2: Pacers stole an extra game in New York and the

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Speaker 2: Knicks stole an extra game in Indiana. But the Knicks

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Speaker 2: actually came out and brought a decent amount of fight

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Speaker 2: through the first two quarters, dominated the offensive glass, but

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Speaker 2: way too many mistakes throughout, especially in their transition defense,

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Speaker 2: especially with like miss free throws and just turnovers things

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Speaker 2: along those lines. And ultimately, the team that was more

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Speaker 2: disciplined and that had a kind of a more attention

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Speaker 2: to detail throughout the season and a team that practiced

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Speaker 2: playing a sharper brand of basketball got the job done.

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Speaker 2: And we're gonna be talking about that. Off the top,

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Speaker 2: we'll talk a little bit about the game itself, We'll

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Speaker 2: look let ahead to the NBA Finals for a little bit.

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Speaker 2: We'll talk about the Knicks and just some of my

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Speaker 2: frustrations with them and what the future looks like. And

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Speaker 2: then at the tail end of the show, we'll take

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Speaker 2: ten to fifteen minutes of questions from our chats. Make

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Speaker 2: sure you guys get some questions in the chat. You guys

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Speaker 2: are the job before we get started. Subscribe to the

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Speaker 2: Hoops to Night YouTube channels you don't miss any more

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Speaker 2: of our videos. Follow me on Twitter at underscore Jason

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Speaker 2: lt so you guys don't miss show announcements. Don't forget

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Speaker 2: about a podcast for you where you get your podcasts

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Speaker 2: or Hoops Tonight's also super helpful if you leave a

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Speaker 2: lady rating and a review. On that front, Jackson's doing

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Speaker 2: great work on our social media feeds on Twitter, Instagram, Facebook,

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Speaker 2: and TikTok. Make sure you guys follow us there, and

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Speaker 2: last but not least, keep dropping those questions in the

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Speaker 2: chat so that we can get to them at the

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Speaker 2: tail end of the show. When we finish here tonight,

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Speaker 2: we're going to be moving over to Playback that's playback

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Speaker 2: dot tv slash Hoops Tonight. There we're going to be

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Speaker 2: taking callers, watching some film, just hanging out kind of

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Speaker 2: like an inful role basketball hour that we have as

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Speaker 2: the Hoops Tonight community, just kind of having fun. We

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Speaker 2: bring fans up from the teams that we got some

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Speaker 2: Pacers fans that I'm looking forward to having their moment tonight.

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Speaker 2: If you guys want to join us over there, just

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Speaker 2: go to playback dot tv slash Hoops tonight as soon

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Speaker 2: as we finish here on YouTube. All right, let's talk

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Speaker 2: some basketball. So I want to start by just saying

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Speaker 2: congratulations to the Pacers and to Pacers fans. This is

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Speaker 2: a huge deal making it to the finals. If you

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Speaker 2: don't think so, all you have to do is look

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Speaker 2: around in recent NBA history and look at how inconsistent

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Speaker 2: anybody's been in terms of getting to the finals since

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Speaker 2: Katie left the Warriors. And one of the things that

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Speaker 2: I think has stood out to me in a big

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Speaker 2: way in this particular playoff run is these two teams

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Speaker 2: that have made it. They're obviously talent. There's talent involved,

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Speaker 2: right even with Indiana, like Pascal Siakam's a hell of

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Speaker 2: a player, Tyres Haliburn is a hell of a player,

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Speaker 2: nem Hardnee Smith, Turner going to the bench, getting contributions

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Speaker 2: from guys like Thomas Bryant, Nobi Toppa. We're gonna be

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Speaker 2: talking about all these guys today. But I would say

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Speaker 2: the Pacers are not necessarily the most talented roster in

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Speaker 2: the league in terms of just overwhelming talent. The Thunder

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Speaker 2: definitely have a lot of talent, but they're not, you know,

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Speaker 2: like what the Celtics were last year in terms of

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Speaker 2: like just a bunch of like certified, like six like

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Speaker 2: certified high level veteran starters that have been in wars

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Speaker 2: and that have been super experienced through previous playoff runs

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Speaker 2: and like the specifically looking at the compared to other

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Speaker 2: like super talented teams in recent NBA history, like the

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Speaker 2: Kevin Durant Warriors, or like Lebron Dwayne Wade, Chris Boshet,

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Speaker 2: they're not on that level. But they just put together

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Speaker 2: one of the most dominant seasons through to the end

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Speaker 2: of the Conference finals that we've seen in recent NBA history.

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Speaker 2: And it's a casual reminder for all of us that

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Speaker 2: when you play great basketball, it makes it a lot

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Speaker 2: easier to win. Like, make no mistake, guys, this series

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Speaker 2: was won. This series Pacers Knicks was one on the margins.

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Speaker 2: The Pacers scored more than twice as many points off

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Speaker 2: of turnovers in this series than the Knicks did before tonight,

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Speaker 2: and then they put the nail in the coffin with

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Speaker 2: a thirty four point in transition night point off of

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Speaker 2: turnover night thirty four points off of turnovers for the Pacers,

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Speaker 2: thirteen points off of turnovers for the Knicks. Gigantic margin.

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Speaker 2: And as far as like any sort of you know, oh,

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Speaker 2: or we're selling out to the offensive glass. That's why

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Speaker 2: we're not getting and we're not getting back in transition,

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Speaker 2: And we're gonna talk a little bit about that with

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Speaker 2: the Knicks in a little bit as they put together

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Speaker 2: quite possibly the most embarrassing night of transition defense I've

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Speaker 2: ever watched is the Pacers in a must win elimination

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Speaker 2: game just got leak out after leak out after leakout.

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Speaker 2: But like whatever offensive rebound advantage there was coming into tonight,

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Speaker 2: the Knicks got just two and a half points more

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Speaker 2: on second chance points than the Pacers did. The Pacers

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Speaker 2: dominated this series on the margins. Talent goes a long way,

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Speaker 2: I would argue on paper, this Knicks team is flat

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Speaker 2: out more talented than the Pacers, which is why we

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Speaker 2: talked about when the Knicks were at their best. They

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Speaker 2: actually had moments in this series where they looked like

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Speaker 2: a better team. Brief moments, but moments. But that's not

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Speaker 2: all that goes into making a good basketball team. You

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Speaker 2: have to win by playing great basketball. It doesn't matter

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Speaker 2: who's on the floor. If you're not playing great basketball,

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Speaker 2: you're not going to win. And talent can bring a

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Speaker 2: certain amount of great basketball to the table by sheer

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Speaker 2: force of competitive will and that talent. But it can't

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Speaker 2: cross all the boxes. It can't do all the things

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Speaker 2: that you need to do to win games. I talked

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Speaker 2: about coming into tonight. If you guys, remember I said,

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Speaker 2: I know what to expect from the Pacers. I know

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Speaker 2: they're going to pick up full court and bring just

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Speaker 2: a hillacious defensive effort. Andrew and Emhart tonight just like

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Speaker 2: single handedly chop the head off the Knicks offense all

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Speaker 2: night by just making Jalen Brunson's life a living hell.

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Speaker 2: All of those turnovers are forced by that ball pressure,

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Speaker 2: by playing passing lanes, by maintaining a simple defensive identity

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Speaker 2: that this team has had for damn near six months now.

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Speaker 2: This is who they are. This is what they do

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Speaker 2: every single game. Oh you scored, we don't care, We're

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Speaker 2: already running. You see it, Like when you watch the Pacers,

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Speaker 2: you can see it when a dude gets an advantage

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Speaker 2: and goes all the way in for a layup, dudes

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Speaker 2: are already starting running the other way because they know

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Speaker 2: they have an opportunity to erase that quickly with a

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Speaker 2: kick ahead pass. There is even just down the stretch

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Speaker 2: of the game, just the quick whirling actions at the

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Speaker 2: top of the key, two man action, three man action,

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Speaker 2: steady diet of Tyrese Haliburton on ball, like picking catapart

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Speaker 2: with floaters, making simple reads to guys slipping out of

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Speaker 2: screens like ob topping out to the top of the

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Speaker 2: key or Obi topping slipping down the lane for a dunk.

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Speaker 2: Just easy read, Oh, cat's too far, or cats coming

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Speaker 2: up to the level and putting two on the ball.

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Speaker 2: We're just gonna drop it back to Obi top in

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Speaker 2: that's top of the key for three. Oh cats up

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Speaker 2: at the level and they're not tagging the low man,

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Speaker 2: and we're running a stack action and someone's slipping to

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Speaker 2: the top of the key topp ens rolling hit him

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Speaker 2: with the bounce pass. He's dunking it with one hand.

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Speaker 2: There is a steady basketball identity that has been built

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Speaker 2: out from the top down with the pacers that carries

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Speaker 2: them into a situation where then their talent can put

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Speaker 2: them over the top. And yes, there have been moments

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Speaker 2: Aaron E. Smith's shooting in Game one, right, Tyre's Halliburton

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Speaker 2: throughout the series, Pascal Siakam tonight, just getting bucket after bucket.

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Speaker 2: There's a lot of talent there, but the talent is

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Speaker 2: put in position to succeed because the Pacers have put

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Speaker 2: in the work to make themselves an extremely sharp and

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Speaker 2: discipline basketball team. Let me just put it to you

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Speaker 2: in a very basic way. Teams that don't get back

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Speaker 2: in transition and give up layup lines off of made

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Speaker 2: baskets are not champion basketball teams. They are not champions.

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Speaker 2: Champions don't do that. Champions don't make silly, sloppy mistakes

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Speaker 2: over over and over again. They don't make fixable mistakes

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Speaker 2: over and over again. They identify their mistakes, they rectify them.

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Speaker 2: I'd argue this was in Game six, the worst transition

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Speaker 2: defense night that the Knicks had several possessions where all

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Speaker 2: five dudes are south of the free throw line, meaning

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Speaker 2: there's nobody up at the top of the key ready

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Speaker 2: in back court balance. I saw multiple examples a couple

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Speaker 2: of guys that have caught Landry Shaman and Mitchell Robinson

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Speaker 2: in situations where they're back, but they're not paying attention

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Speaker 2: and someone's behind them. Like, that's basic stuff. Ball rim

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Speaker 2: spread out to shooters. That's literally the process of transition defense.

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Speaker 2: If you have your balance set, meaning as if you've

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Speaker 2: got a driver and a roller coming off the top

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Speaker 2: of the key, you have your guys relocate off the

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Speaker 2: corner so that there's somebody north of the foul line

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Speaker 2: that can get back in transition. This is basic stuff. Guys.

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Speaker 2: We teach this in high school. This is not advanced

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Speaker 2: basketball schematics. Floor balance, get back, stop ball, protect the

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Speaker 2: rim at the very least make them make a three.

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Speaker 2: But I mean there were there was a missed free throw,

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Speaker 2: a miss free throw for the Knicks. I think it

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Speaker 2: was kat where the Pacers just swung the ball off

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Speaker 2: the floor and got a wide open three for Aeronniemith

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Speaker 2: on a free throw. That that is just straight up

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Speaker 2: not a championship basketball team. You don't see the Pacers

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Speaker 2: making those kinds of mistakes. You don't see the Thunder

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Speaker 2: making those kinds of mistakes. And it's just a casual reminder,

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Speaker 2: Like we can talk about player movement this summer, we

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Speaker 2: can talk about theoretical theoretical basketball fit for Yannis with

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Speaker 2: Victor woman Yama on the Spurs and the Knicks. We

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Speaker 2: could talk about with the Knicks, like what if they

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Speaker 2: trade Cat for Kde or something like that. None of

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Speaker 2: it matters if you don't use the regular season to

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Speaker 2: practice playing great basketball, because ultimately it's gonna be what

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Speaker 2: decides your fate. The Knicks had so many chances to

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Speaker 2: win this game. Thirty four points off of turnovers, you're

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Speaker 2: dead on a rival. I just thought it was such

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Speaker 2: an interesting juxtaposition in this series, two teams, very talented.

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Speaker 2: Nick's probably more talented Knicks when they're at their best,

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Speaker 2: look a little bit better. Didn't matter because the Pacers

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Speaker 2: were steady. The Pacers were steady and played Pacers basketball

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Speaker 2: and just waited for the Knicks to soil themselves, and

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Speaker 2: inevitably they did. Yeah, it doesn't matter who you are.

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Speaker 2: You can run the floor. It doesn't matter who you are.

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Speaker 2: You can do these basic things that Rick Carlisle has

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Speaker 2: these guys doing on every single possession, and you will

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Speaker 2: grab a ton of low hanging fruit and you're gonna

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Speaker 2: give yourself a great chance to win games. Pascal Siakam

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Speaker 2: was absolutely amazing tonight. He's a classic example of what

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Speaker 2: I'm talking about with those runouts. Sorry, the ESPN website

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Speaker 2: isn't pulling up the box score, is gonna just play

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Speaker 2: an ad. There's a There's this thing that Pascal Siakam

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Speaker 2: has been doing this entire postseason, just pushing the ball

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Speaker 2: up the floor, like every time that there's any sort

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Speaker 2: of opportunity, he's leaking out and it's just they're throwing

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Speaker 2: it to him like he's a wide receiver run in

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Speaker 2: his street and he's just catching it and making a

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Speaker 2: quick move against some one on one or maybe getting

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Speaker 2: a dunk. He gets all sorts of opportunities like that,

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Speaker 2: the pick and pop action, just hitting important threes at

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Speaker 2: the top of the key, the quick ISOs, the quick

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Speaker 2: turnarounds over both shoulders, the getting to the foul line. Like,

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Speaker 2: Siakam was an absolute monster tonight. Andrew Nemhard was doing

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Speaker 2: such a good job on Jalen Brunson. You could literally

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Speaker 2: see the frustration building to like a fever pitch. I

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Speaker 2: was texting Jackson during the game. I was like, We're

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Speaker 2: like one more hard bump in like a fifteen point

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Speaker 2: game from this turning into some sort of physical altercation

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Speaker 2: between Brunson and Nemhard because they were like jawn at

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Speaker 2: each other. But that's the thing Nemhard like, I admire

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Speaker 2: the hell out of this from basketball players. Nedmar had

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Speaker 2: a rough series offensively, couldn't make a shot to save

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Speaker 2: his life. A lot of like uncharacteristic decisions on drives

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Speaker 2: and in the decision zone, kind of there in the

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Speaker 2: middle of the floor. But like, what do I always say?

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Speaker 2: What do I always say? Just make a play, find

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Speaker 2: a way to do something that helps your team win

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Speaker 2: the game. And Aaron Nesmiths having an ankle issue. I

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Speaker 2: don't know if that was the reason why they did

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Speaker 2: the switch today or if Nemhar just straight up went

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Speaker 2: to Rick Carlisle and said, Hey, I'm sucking on offense

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Speaker 2: right now. Give me something where I can like pour

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Speaker 2: my heart and soul into it and try to make

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Speaker 2: something happen. But he just did as good a job

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Speaker 2: guarding of one of the best point guards in the

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Speaker 2: league as you'll see. And then you could tell he

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Speaker 2: was leaving a jump shot short. Then he has two

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Speaker 2: massive threes in the second half, and on those threes,

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Speaker 2: you can you'd literally see Nemhard like dip super low,

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Speaker 2: even though he's wide open. You could see him dip

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Speaker 2: super low to get his legs into the shot, and

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Speaker 2: it's like, just make one, just make one, and then

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Speaker 2: it doesn't matter that he had a rough series. No

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Speaker 2: one cares about Nemhart having a rough series now because

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Speaker 2: in Game six he locked Jalen Brunton up and hit

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Speaker 2: a couple of huge baskets down the stretch, a couple

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Speaker 2: of big drop coverage shots too. Like he stayed in

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Speaker 2: it mentally, never let go of the rope, and found

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Speaker 2: a way to leave a lasting imprint on the series.

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Speaker 2: But before it was done, Obi top In I thought

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Speaker 2: there were several key sequences tonight where he made plays

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Speaker 2: that kind of were like, uh, like what I would

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Speaker 2: consider like ceiling raising type of plays were not necessarily

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Speaker 2: in the flow of the game, but like shots that

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Speaker 2: are being conceded and you have no choice but to

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Speaker 2: beat the coverage by knocking down those shots. Big pick

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Speaker 2: and pop three at the top of the key late

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Speaker 2: that role, late in the game, there was a three

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Speaker 2: that he hit kind of off of movement in the

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Speaker 2: I think it was an early second quarter where there's

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Speaker 2: a really good defensive possession from the Knicks where everybody's

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Speaker 2: doing all the right stuff, and then I think Kat

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Speaker 2: was lazy on one little dho at the top of

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Speaker 2: the key and he just rises and fires from like

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Speaker 2: twenty six feet off the move, rises up and knocks

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Speaker 2: it down. His run, his lane running and transition all

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Speaker 2: series long. He was awesome. Thomas Bryant three massive threes

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Speaker 2: out of the corners in this game tonight. Every single

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Speaker 2: one of them felt like a huge shotgun blast to

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Speaker 2: the chest for the Knicks, just massive, massive shots. And

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Speaker 2: then I thought, Tyre's Halliburton. You know, he's been facing

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Speaker 2: the brunt of the aggressive aggression in the Knicks coverages

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Speaker 2: in this series and like taking simple reads like they're

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Speaker 2: in that second half, he really started to assert himself

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Speaker 2: in control of the offense and like, oh, you're leaving

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Speaker 2: Topping on the pop, I'm gonna hit this. Oh you're

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Speaker 2: leaving Topping on the role, I'm gonna hit this. Okay,

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Speaker 2: you're gonna let me operate in this soft ass February

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Speaker 2: drop coverage. I'm just gonna hit floater after floater after

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Speaker 2: floater out that Halliburton was fantastic, just a just a

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Speaker 2: wired to wire, super super impressive playoff run from the Pacers,

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Speaker 2: and now they're in the final.

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Speaker 1: Blending Vice's signature dynamic storytelling with the high octane world

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Speaker 1: of sports, Vice Sports brings an exciting and diverse range

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Speaker 1: of programming that goes beyond the game. From action pack

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Speaker 1: live events to gripping behind the scenes documentaries to hard

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Speaker 1: hitting investigative pieces and in depth profiles of athletes, coaches, teams.

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Speaker 1: Vice Sports captures the raw energy, drama, and passion that

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Speaker 1: makes sports truly unforgettable. Catch live events and other exclusive

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Speaker 1: com to find your cable channels.

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Speaker 2: Now, looking ahead to the finals, I think the first

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Speaker 2: key is going to be managing ball pressure, as you guys.

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Speaker 2: As you guys have seen in this series, there have

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Speaker 2: been several stretches where the Nicks did some damage to

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Speaker 2: the Pacers with their ball pressure. The thunder Age is

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Speaker 2: way better at it. They've got better defenders, more of

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Speaker 2: the better matchups too. They're not like big lanky dudes

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Speaker 2: that are not necessarily as quick footed as Tyre's Halliburton.

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Speaker 2: They've got guys that are quicker than Tyres Haliburton. That'll

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Speaker 2: be on him the entire series, and so everything's going

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Speaker 2: to be about managing that ball pressure. I think it's

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Speaker 2: going to be vitally important for the Pacers to have

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Speaker 2: success attacking in the post through Pascal Siakam and Myles Turner.

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Speaker 2: One of the reasons why is if Haliburton does his job,

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Speaker 2: which is handle the ball pressure, doesn't turn the ball over,

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Speaker 2: and OKASE is super aggressive with their coverages two on

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Speaker 2: the ball, packing the paint, playing passing lanes, and Haliburton

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Speaker 2: makes the passes and the Pacers shoot them out of it.

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Speaker 2: Mark Dagnaut will default two more switching and to staying

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Speaker 2: home off ball, and in that series, in that setting,

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Speaker 2: it is no longer a Haliburton series in terms of

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Speaker 2: ISO scoring the advantage. Again, the Thunders, they're small on

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Speaker 2: the perimeter and so it's gotta be Siakam and as

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Speaker 2: we saw in the Minnesota series and in the Denver series,

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Speaker 2: it's extremely difficult to make post entries against the Thunder.

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Speaker 2: They three quarter front, they full front, they bracket from behind,

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Speaker 2: They do all sorts of stuff to make that passing

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Speaker 2: angle difficult. And if OKC goes to switching and goes

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Speaker 2: to staying home. The key to the series will be

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Speaker 2: getting the ball to Siakam to turner deep seals, and

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Speaker 2: then that being the entry point either high quality two's

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Speaker 2: right at the front of the rim or drawing multiple

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Speaker 2: defenders to get the defense in rotation. Ultimately, if you

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Speaker 2: want the Pacers to play Pacers basketball, they're gonna have

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Speaker 2: to manage ball pressure and they're gonna have to move

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Speaker 2: the ball efficiently through Oklahoma City's aggressive defense, and it's

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Speaker 2: gonna be a very very different challenge. I look at

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Speaker 2: this series as a particularly tough one for the Pacers

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Speaker 2: early on because they are just not exposed to this

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Speaker 2: level of defense yet. The Bucks out obviously, We're horrendous

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Speaker 2: all year, The Knicks were horrendous all year, The Cavs sneaky,

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Speaker 2: were mediocre on defense for basically the second half of

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Speaker 2: the year. This is arguably the greatest defense that we've

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Speaker 2: seen in recent NBA history. So it's going to be

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Speaker 2: a very very different sort of challenge for them. But

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Speaker 2: they do in theory. What do I always say, what

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Speaker 2: do you need to beat Oklahoma City's defense? You need size,

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Speaker 2: you need playmaking, and you need shooting. And they do

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Speaker 2: have the size it just comes in the form of Siakam, right.

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Speaker 2: They have tons of playmaking talent and everyone can shoot,

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Speaker 2: but it's in a matchup where the Pacers typically have

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Speaker 2: a lot of success with their guard play TJ McConnell,

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Speaker 2: Tyrese Halliburn, Andrew Nemhart, even Niesmith to a certain extent,

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Speaker 2: Ben Mathern. In a series like this, those guys don't

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Speaker 2: have the advantage all of a sudden. It's going to

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Speaker 2: be a lot of pressure on Siakam to be that

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Speaker 2: guy who's initiating the offense with size and then as

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Speaker 2: a team playmaking out of it in finishing plays by

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Speaker 2: knocking down shots, handling game plan tweaks. As I said,

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Speaker 2: I think Dagnault will come out with their base pressure

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Speaker 2: scheme and load up scheme, but I think it's very

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Speaker 2: possible that they pivot out of that and the Pacers

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Speaker 2: are going to have to have some different punches in

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Speaker 2: their bag guarding she. On the other end of the floor,

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Speaker 2: we saw the Timberwolves have more success in their series

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Speaker 2: with quicker defenders on say, kind of like more of

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Speaker 2: a beating him to spot style of approach and forcing

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Speaker 2: him to shoot over the top the Pacers have lots

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Speaker 2: of guys that can do that. The Pacers, in theory

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Speaker 2: have personnel that matches up reasonably well with Oklahoma City.

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Speaker 2: I'm actually a lot more bullish on the Pacers' ability

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Speaker 2: to get stops against Oklahoma City that am on their

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Speaker 2: ability to score, which is hilarious considering the strength of

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Speaker 2: this Pacers team is their offense. But guarding Shee again,

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Speaker 2: it's going to be a steady diet of Nie Smith

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Speaker 2: and Nemhart and TJ McConnell beating him to spots, not

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Speaker 2: getting handsy to where you can get in trouble with

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Speaker 2: the whistle, and then forcing him into a bunch of

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Speaker 2: mid range jump shots and then forcing kickouts again. The

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Speaker 2: finals are stressful, totally different setting, totally different level of intensity,

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Speaker 2: totally different media presence, totally different production quality. It is

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Speaker 2: a foreign entity compared to the rest of the NBA Playoffs.

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Speaker 2: There's a lot of young dudes in that Thunder locker room,

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Speaker 2: and so you have to for Shae to pass and

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Speaker 2: force these young, inexperienced players to knock down, catch and

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Speaker 2: shoot jump shots. We are going to start I'm going

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Speaker 2: to start watching film for Pacers. Thunder tomorrow morning. We

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Speaker 2: will have a bunch of preview content coming out on Monday, Tuesday,

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Speaker 2: Wednesday next week. I will keep you guys posted as

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Speaker 2: soon as we have a more firm schedule. But keep

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Speaker 2: an eye on my Twitter feed tomorrow morning because I'll

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Speaker 2: probably be watching some of that film and just kind

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Speaker 2: of tweeting out little things that I find interesting. But

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Speaker 2: we will have our first bit of finals coverage starting

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Speaker 2: on Monday on the Knicks front. Before we get to

427
00:22:56,840 --> 00:23:00,240
Speaker 2: our mailbag. To put it very simply, we can talk

428
00:23:00,240 --> 00:23:02,159
Speaker 2: about what they want to do with the roster. I

429
00:23:02,200 --> 00:23:05,560
Speaker 2: think Karl Anthony Towns has proven pretty resoundingly to this

430
00:23:05,640 --> 00:23:08,760
Speaker 2: point that he is a guy that has a certain ceiling.

431
00:23:09,720 --> 00:23:14,040
Speaker 2: That ceiling is he is inconsistent as an offensive player

432
00:23:14,560 --> 00:23:18,120
Speaker 2: and downright bad as a defensive player as the leverage

433
00:23:18,119 --> 00:23:21,560
Speaker 2: and intensity of the situation gets higher later in the playoffs.

434
00:23:22,160 --> 00:23:24,200
Speaker 2: And this is back to back years in the conference

435
00:23:24,200 --> 00:23:27,960
Speaker 2: finals where I can almost like specifically point to him

436
00:23:27,960 --> 00:23:31,600
Speaker 2: as a big part of why they lost, and it's

437
00:23:32,160 --> 00:23:34,560
Speaker 2: there are just certain guys that are not built for

438
00:23:34,640 --> 00:23:37,639
Speaker 2: this style of basketball, in this sort of setting, and

439
00:23:38,200 --> 00:23:42,040
Speaker 2: to have a salary slot as large as cats for

440
00:23:42,119 --> 00:23:43,959
Speaker 2: a player that is as damaging as he was as

441
00:23:44,000 --> 00:23:47,280
Speaker 2: they were just picking him a part on defense in

442
00:23:47,320 --> 00:23:50,879
Speaker 2: this game, way too deep in his drop, sometimes active

443
00:23:50,920 --> 00:23:53,120
Speaker 2: up high but giving up easy pocket passes. At other

444
00:23:53,160 --> 00:23:56,160
Speaker 2: times he's a brutal part of their bad transition defense.

445
00:23:56,720 --> 00:23:59,640
Speaker 2: It's all of the above. So we can talk about

446
00:23:59,680 --> 00:24:02,280
Speaker 2: pivot off of Cat, and that's what I would do.

447
00:24:02,560 --> 00:24:05,160
Speaker 2: I would pivot off of Cat and I would build

448
00:24:05,200 --> 00:24:08,639
Speaker 2: around defense around Brunson. This has to be a sharper, better,

449
00:24:08,760 --> 00:24:13,240
Speaker 2: deeper defensive team. All that's fine. None of it matters

450
00:24:13,359 --> 00:24:16,639
Speaker 2: if you don't play a sharper brand of basketball. And

451
00:24:16,680 --> 00:24:20,399
Speaker 2: some of this is on tips. Tom Thibodeau is the

452
00:24:20,440 --> 00:24:22,760
Speaker 2: coach of this team, and by the sixth game of

453
00:24:22,760 --> 00:24:25,000
Speaker 2: the series, his team looked like it had no idea

454
00:24:25,040 --> 00:24:27,639
Speaker 2: how to handle the Pacers in transition. And it wasn't like,

455
00:24:28,080 --> 00:24:30,440
Speaker 2: oh my god, they're pushing the ball off the floor

456
00:24:30,480 --> 00:24:32,800
Speaker 2: and we're doing our job, but they're just putting us

457
00:24:32,800 --> 00:24:35,320
Speaker 2: in a blender of quick transition action. No, these are

458
00:24:35,520 --> 00:24:39,959
Speaker 2: wide open, kick ahead, leak out dunks and wide open

459
00:24:40,359 --> 00:24:46,000
Speaker 2: kickout threes. There is a reality with Tom Thibodeau that

460
00:24:46,040 --> 00:24:48,520
Speaker 2: he trusts the top end of his roster so much

461
00:24:49,040 --> 00:24:52,320
Speaker 2: that he leans on them so heavily that it's kind

462
00:24:52,320 --> 00:24:55,159
Speaker 2: of impossible for him to be as detail oriented as

463
00:24:55,160 --> 00:24:58,160
Speaker 2: he needs to be. How could you be that detail

464
00:24:58,200 --> 00:25:01,560
Speaker 2: oriented when a guy's playing forty something minutes a night.

465
00:25:03,320 --> 00:25:06,400
Speaker 2: There's too many opportunities for fatigue to enter into the equation.

466
00:25:08,920 --> 00:25:12,080
Speaker 2: The Knicks have to, regardless of what roster changes are made,

467
00:25:12,720 --> 00:25:16,840
Speaker 2: starting in early October next year, culturally, from the top down,

468
00:25:17,400 --> 00:25:21,680
Speaker 2: embrace a sharper and more detail oriented brand of basketball.

469
00:25:21,760 --> 00:25:24,760
Speaker 2: You lost your opportunity to go to the finals this

470
00:25:24,840 --> 00:25:28,280
Speaker 2: year because you were an undisciplined team, not because you

471
00:25:28,280 --> 00:25:32,399
Speaker 2: didn't have the talent to hang with the Pacers. Easy

472
00:25:32,400 --> 00:25:35,080
Speaker 2: way to do that be more willing to use your bench.

473
00:25:36,160 --> 00:25:39,600
Speaker 2: From day one, we're running a nine to ten man rotation.

474
00:25:40,359 --> 00:25:43,000
Speaker 2: Here are basic defensive principles. Does that mean you need

475
00:25:43,000 --> 00:25:45,399
Speaker 2: to pick a full court all series or all season. No,

476
00:25:46,680 --> 00:25:50,280
Speaker 2: but come up with some basic things. We are going

477
00:25:50,320 --> 00:25:53,960
Speaker 2: to pressure the ball after half court at a bare minimum,

478
00:25:54,680 --> 00:25:58,000
Speaker 2: because that is an easy way to just make ball

479
00:25:58,040 --> 00:26:02,320
Speaker 2: handlers uncomfortable, which can have all sorts of trickle down

480
00:26:02,320 --> 00:26:06,159
Speaker 2: effects in the game. In general, I think the brunts

481
00:26:06,240 --> 00:26:09,760
Speaker 2: and bridges o g Nnobi specifically heart bridges and Anonoby

482
00:26:09,800 --> 00:26:12,159
Speaker 2: are just so good in transition. You got to try

483
00:26:12,200 --> 00:26:14,479
Speaker 2: to feed as many transition opportunities as possible. And you're

484
00:26:14,520 --> 00:26:17,000
Speaker 2: gonna do that with ball pressure at bare minimum, ball

485
00:26:17,000 --> 00:26:20,480
Speaker 2: pressure at half court at a bare minimum, a basic

486
00:26:20,600 --> 00:26:23,000
Speaker 2: set of like three different coverages that you trust and

487
00:26:23,040 --> 00:26:25,760
Speaker 2: man a man situations based with Brunson and with Cat

488
00:26:25,800 --> 00:26:27,760
Speaker 2: or whoever it is that you bring back, and then

489
00:26:28,040 --> 00:26:30,600
Speaker 2: attention to detail throughout the season, making sure that these

490
00:26:30,600 --> 00:26:33,320
Speaker 2: are sharp so you don't have breakdowns taking place in

491
00:26:33,359 --> 00:26:35,440
Speaker 2: the playoffs where like dudes are pointing at each other

492
00:26:35,520 --> 00:26:37,199
Speaker 2: like you're supposed to do this, You're supposed to do that.

493
00:26:37,680 --> 00:26:40,119
Speaker 2: You looked like that all season. Not surprised that you

494
00:26:40,160 --> 00:26:42,480
Speaker 2: looked like that when it came down when it came

495
00:26:42,560 --> 00:26:46,200
Speaker 2: time to get the job done in the playoffs. There

496
00:26:46,280 --> 00:26:49,080
Speaker 2: is a there is an order of operations to being

497
00:26:49,119 --> 00:26:52,199
Speaker 2: a champion, and it starts in October with attention to detail.

498
00:26:53,560 --> 00:26:56,800
Speaker 2: It's a mandatory tell me, tell me the time. Can

499
00:26:56,960 --> 00:26:59,199
Speaker 2: can anybody think of like a sloppy basketball team that

500
00:26:59,200 --> 00:27:03,240
Speaker 2: won the title. The Celtics last year weren't sloppy. The

501
00:27:03,280 --> 00:27:07,120
Speaker 2: Nuggets weren't sloppy in twenty twenty three, the Warriors weren't sloppy,

502
00:27:07,600 --> 00:27:10,719
Speaker 2: the Bucks weren't sloppy, the Lakers weren't sloppy. That's like

503
00:27:10,760 --> 00:27:14,320
Speaker 2: a that's literally a non negotiable. You cannot get to

504
00:27:14,320 --> 00:27:18,240
Speaker 2: the Promised Land if you practice playing sloppy basketball. So

505
00:27:18,320 --> 00:27:20,320
Speaker 2: regardless of what the Knicks do this summer, that is

506
00:27:20,359 --> 00:27:24,680
Speaker 2: a non negotiable. They need a basketball culture reset either.

507
00:27:24,720 --> 00:27:27,080
Speaker 2: Someone needs to sit down with TIBs and be like, hey, dude,

508
00:27:27,160 --> 00:27:30,280
Speaker 2: we got to change our approach. Stop riding everybody super

509
00:27:30,320 --> 00:27:33,680
Speaker 2: high minutes, extend your rotation, and actually start holding these

510
00:27:33,680 --> 00:27:36,600
Speaker 2: guys accountable to the details night in and night out

511
00:27:36,640 --> 00:27:38,760
Speaker 2: throughout the regular season. That way, we can be the

512
00:27:38,800 --> 00:27:41,760
Speaker 2: best version of ourselves when we get to June, when

513
00:27:41,760 --> 00:27:45,399
Speaker 2: we get to may Or, if he's not up for

514
00:27:45,480 --> 00:27:47,080
Speaker 2: it and you need to change a voice in the

515
00:27:47,080 --> 00:27:49,640
Speaker 2: locker room, make a move and bring in a coach

516
00:27:49,680 --> 00:27:52,440
Speaker 2: that can be the guy that highlights that low hanging fruit.

517
00:27:54,080 --> 00:27:57,240
Speaker 2: The Pacers aren't going anywhere. The Celtics are going to

518
00:27:57,280 --> 00:27:59,320
Speaker 2: be in a pivot year. Obviously, the Bucks are going

519
00:27:59,359 --> 00:28:01,240
Speaker 2: to be in a pivot year. Obviously. The East is

520
00:28:01,240 --> 00:28:04,240
Speaker 2: gonna be pretty open. But you're gonna be right back here,

521
00:28:04,359 --> 00:28:07,159
Speaker 2: maybe in round two, maybe in round three dealing with

522
00:28:07,200 --> 00:28:09,800
Speaker 2: the Pacers, And what am I gonna be saying? I

523
00:28:09,880 --> 00:28:12,280
Speaker 2: know what I'm getting from the Pacers because the Pacers

524
00:28:12,320 --> 00:28:15,359
Speaker 2: have a top down basketball identity, from Kevin Pritchard to

525
00:28:15,480 --> 00:28:17,720
Speaker 2: Rick Carlisle, all the way down that roster, starting with

526
00:28:17,760 --> 00:28:21,240
Speaker 2: Tyre's Halliburton. This is the way they play. They don't

527
00:28:21,440 --> 00:28:24,960
Speaker 2: cut corners, and so they are always the very best

528
00:28:25,080 --> 00:28:27,480
Speaker 2: version of themselves. And that's why they're going to the finals.

529
00:28:27,600 --> 00:28:30,760
Speaker 2: All right, Jackson's gonna come on. We're gonna take some questions.

530
00:28:31,400 --> 00:28:36,080
Speaker 3: Let's do it. First question, Pascal Siakam won Eastern Conference

531
00:28:36,119 --> 00:28:39,360
Speaker 3: Finals MVP. Do you feel like Halliburton got snubbed?

532
00:28:39,480 --> 00:28:43,160
Speaker 2: I'm gonna say no, just simply because there were stretches

533
00:28:43,160 --> 00:28:47,080
Speaker 2: of this series where Tyre's Halliburton was somewhat, you know,

534
00:28:47,160 --> 00:28:51,840
Speaker 2: disengaged as a product of the defensive scheme that he

535
00:28:51,960 --> 00:28:54,320
Speaker 2: was facing. And I did think Siakam was more or

536
00:28:54,400 --> 00:28:57,400
Speaker 2: less as good as Halliburton. It just manifests in different ways.

537
00:28:57,480 --> 00:28:59,960
Speaker 2: Like with Tyre's Halliburton, He's always going to be better

538
00:29:00,120 --> 00:29:02,040
Speaker 2: than what the box score will lead you to believe

539
00:29:02,160 --> 00:29:07,200
Speaker 2: simply because of the simply because of the advantage creation aspect.

540
00:29:08,080 --> 00:29:11,080
Speaker 2: But with Pascal Siakam, like he's been the guy who

541
00:29:11,120 --> 00:29:14,440
Speaker 2: they've leaned on for like, oh, this isn't working, we

542
00:29:14,520 --> 00:29:17,240
Speaker 2: need to create a shot, Like he's the guy. He's

543
00:29:17,240 --> 00:29:19,120
Speaker 2: the one guy who can go get a bucket. And

544
00:29:19,160 --> 00:29:21,760
Speaker 2: by the way, in the game to win thirty nine

545
00:29:21,800 --> 00:29:25,240
Speaker 2: points in the game, four win thirty points in the game,

546
00:29:25,320 --> 00:29:28,000
Speaker 2: six win thirty one points. So in three of their

547
00:29:28,040 --> 00:29:30,560
Speaker 2: four wins he had over thirty points. I'm not going

548
00:29:30,640 --> 00:29:33,240
Speaker 2: to call that a snub under any circumstances.

549
00:29:33,680 --> 00:29:37,680
Speaker 3: He's such a stabilizer for them and such a floor razer.

550
00:29:37,760 --> 00:29:41,480
Speaker 3: It's it's hard to think about teams that have their

551
00:29:41,520 --> 00:29:43,400
Speaker 3: second best player. I think it's even though he was

552
00:29:43,720 --> 00:29:46,240
Speaker 3: you know, the series MVP Halliburn is their best player.

553
00:29:46,400 --> 00:29:49,360
Speaker 3: It's it's it's not that many examples of teams but

554
00:29:49,400 --> 00:29:51,840
Speaker 3: their second best player is such a stabilizer for them.

555
00:29:51,880 --> 00:29:54,480
Speaker 3: It's really interesting and impressive from his standpoint.

556
00:29:54,840 --> 00:29:56,800
Speaker 2: He's a pretty consistent player too, with just the way

557
00:29:56,800 --> 00:29:58,800
Speaker 2: that he runs. I will say he was rough in

558
00:29:58,840 --> 00:30:00,720
Speaker 2: game five, and that was definitely unusual.

559
00:30:00,760 --> 00:30:00,840
Speaker 1: One.

560
00:30:02,000 --> 00:30:04,040
Speaker 2: The entire team was kind of bad in Game five,

561
00:30:04,080 --> 00:30:07,400
Speaker 2: but yeah, that was definitely bad. The I also thought

562
00:30:07,440 --> 00:30:10,080
Speaker 2: that he did a great job on Kat defensively tonight,

563
00:30:10,400 --> 00:30:13,840
Speaker 2: kept stonewalling him on those like volleyball drives and was

564
00:30:14,120 --> 00:30:16,560
Speaker 2: attacking the basketball and forcing him to lose control, like

565
00:30:16,840 --> 00:30:19,520
Speaker 2: Sacham was just awesome. And I think, I mean, we

566
00:30:19,520 --> 00:30:21,440
Speaker 2: can all admit this. I thought he'd like straight up,

567
00:30:21,480 --> 00:30:23,880
Speaker 2: flat out outplayed cat headhead in the series.

568
00:30:24,000 --> 00:30:27,560
Speaker 3: Yeah, definitely. And the I mean, we we on this

569
00:30:27,640 --> 00:30:29,479
Speaker 3: show and you are not expecting the Pacers to win

570
00:30:29,520 --> 00:30:32,360
Speaker 3: the finals, but if the Pacers win the finals, we're

571
00:30:32,360 --> 00:30:34,640
Speaker 3: gonna have to have some Pascal Siakam conversations as he

572
00:30:34,640 --> 00:30:36,840
Speaker 3: will now be the second best player on multiple different

573
00:30:36,920 --> 00:30:39,560
Speaker 3: championship teams with multiple franchises. Like that is not that

574
00:30:39,600 --> 00:30:40,479
Speaker 3: many people can say that.

575
00:30:41,040 --> 00:30:43,680
Speaker 2: I think it's just a classic example of like the

576
00:30:44,080 --> 00:30:46,320
Speaker 2: simple dynamic that you and I have talked about so

577
00:30:46,360 --> 00:30:49,080
Speaker 2: many times over the season, and in terms of just

578
00:30:49,160 --> 00:30:52,440
Speaker 2: like the whole playoff riser thing is real and it

579
00:30:52,680 --> 00:30:55,560
Speaker 2: all comes down to some basic things to me, Like

580
00:30:55,920 --> 00:30:58,400
Speaker 2: there's a certain like size and strength element to it.

581
00:30:58,920 --> 00:31:01,320
Speaker 2: There's a certain versatile element to it. Those two things

582
00:31:01,360 --> 00:31:04,080
Speaker 2: are vital because in the playoffs it just gets so physical,

583
00:31:04,120 --> 00:31:05,880
Speaker 2: and teams game plan you, so if you don't have

584
00:31:06,200 --> 00:31:09,280
Speaker 2: if you have too many weaknesses to expose rather than

585
00:31:09,320 --> 00:31:12,160
Speaker 2: having a well rounded game, you'll run into issues. The

586
00:31:12,200 --> 00:31:15,560
Speaker 2: third part of it is I'm I'm a huge believer

587
00:31:16,000 --> 00:31:20,840
Speaker 2: that like, even amongst competitors, there's levels to competitiveness. I

588
00:31:20,920 --> 00:31:24,120
Speaker 2: always joke about this, but like I would much rather

589
00:31:24,240 --> 00:31:27,280
Speaker 2: play in terms of having a teammate a fox hole guy.

590
00:31:27,720 --> 00:31:30,479
Speaker 2: I would much rather play with a guy who hates

591
00:31:30,640 --> 00:31:33,960
Speaker 2: losing than a guy who loves basketball. Now, I want both,

592
00:31:34,240 --> 00:31:36,320
Speaker 2: and the best players of all time are always both.

593
00:31:36,640 --> 00:31:39,880
Speaker 2: But like I have a hard time relating to someone

594
00:31:39,920 --> 00:31:44,360
Speaker 2: that doesn't like get fucking mad about losing, like angry,

595
00:31:44,520 --> 00:31:48,720
Speaker 2: like viscerally upset about losing. Like to me, that emotion,

596
00:31:49,000 --> 00:31:53,040
Speaker 2: that hatred of losing is what drives a basketball player

597
00:31:53,520 --> 00:31:56,520
Speaker 2: to be detail oriented and to not cut corners and

598
00:31:56,520 --> 00:31:58,400
Speaker 2: to do all the things you've got to do, and like,

599
00:31:58,720 --> 00:32:01,040
Speaker 2: say what you want about you know some of these

600
00:32:01,080 --> 00:32:03,120
Speaker 2: dudes like Andrew nemhard for instance, but like there is

601
00:32:03,160 --> 00:32:06,200
Speaker 2: a there is like a sheer competitive fire, like he

602
00:32:06,360 --> 00:32:10,280
Speaker 2: wanted to embarrass Jalen Brunson tonight down the stretch Nemhart did,

603
00:32:10,760 --> 00:32:13,240
Speaker 2: and so like, yeah, like part of that playoff riser

604
00:32:13,280 --> 00:32:15,520
Speaker 2: thing to me is always going to be that competitiveness,

605
00:32:15,520 --> 00:32:18,400
Speaker 2: like do you have the will to fight more than

606
00:32:18,400 --> 00:32:19,480
Speaker 2: the guy across from you?

607
00:32:20,320 --> 00:32:22,640
Speaker 3: Yeah, and the Pacers have. I mean, you could probably

608
00:32:22,640 --> 00:32:24,720
Speaker 3: say they've been a lot of their players, but specifically

609
00:32:24,840 --> 00:32:26,800
Speaker 3: three in their starting lineup. I think Nie Smith and

610
00:32:26,800 --> 00:32:29,880
Speaker 3: Nemhard and Pascal are all very much that type.

611
00:32:29,720 --> 00:32:31,400
Speaker 2: Of player classic playoff risers.

612
00:32:32,520 --> 00:32:36,440
Speaker 3: Uh super chat from jm Rciakam and Nie Smith the

613
00:32:36,560 --> 00:32:38,680
Speaker 3: key to beating Oka. See what would it take for

614
00:32:38,720 --> 00:32:41,120
Speaker 3: Indy to beat Okac four times?

615
00:32:41,880 --> 00:32:43,680
Speaker 2: I'm gonna say yes to both of those because I

616
00:32:43,680 --> 00:32:45,760
Speaker 2: think Nie Smith will be the primary matchup on Shay

617
00:32:46,480 --> 00:32:50,320
Speaker 2: and uh if if Nie Smith can prevent Shae from

618
00:32:50,360 --> 00:32:54,080
Speaker 2: getting easy dribble penetration so that it's not like you're

619
00:32:54,360 --> 00:32:57,480
Speaker 2: badly compromised right off the bat over and over again

620
00:32:57,920 --> 00:32:59,960
Speaker 2: with the screen navigation that he did in this series,

621
00:33:00,000 --> 00:33:03,760
Speaker 2: I think that would go a long way. Jada McDaniels

622
00:33:04,520 --> 00:33:06,680
Speaker 2: in the Conference finals, I thought did an awful job

623
00:33:06,720 --> 00:33:09,880
Speaker 2: of containing the ball in like in kind of a

624
00:33:09,880 --> 00:33:11,840
Speaker 2: way that was so weird to have me like rethinking

625
00:33:11,920 --> 00:33:15,960
Speaker 2: like defensive player archetypes, and Nie Smith is the kind

626
00:33:16,000 --> 00:33:19,200
Speaker 2: of archetype theoretically that is, like he is so laterally

627
00:33:19,280 --> 00:33:21,720
Speaker 2: quick that he should be able to at least as

628
00:33:21,760 --> 00:33:25,520
Speaker 2: long as he doesn't get screened, keep Shay reasonably in front.

629
00:33:26,000 --> 00:33:28,560
Speaker 2: If he does, then Shay is going to be throwing

630
00:33:28,640 --> 00:33:33,120
Speaker 2: kickouts to advantages that are like advantages but not like

631
00:33:33,680 --> 00:33:36,440
Speaker 2: the oh my god, he got super deep into the

632
00:33:36,440 --> 00:33:38,440
Speaker 2: paint and drew four bodies in and this is like

633
00:33:38,480 --> 00:33:41,720
Speaker 2: a standstill, close out opportunity kind of thing. So Nie

634
00:33:41,760 --> 00:33:44,560
Speaker 2: Smith is the key to the defensive matchup, and then

635
00:33:44,640 --> 00:33:46,560
Speaker 2: Siakom to me is the key of the offensive matchup.

636
00:33:46,600 --> 00:33:49,320
Speaker 2: Because I think there's a chance that Halliburton like straight

637
00:33:49,400 --> 00:33:52,040
Speaker 2: up folds right to start this series like that that's

638
00:33:52,080 --> 00:33:54,840
Speaker 2: on the table, like he's kind of done it against

639
00:33:54,880 --> 00:33:58,440
Speaker 2: Dort before and it could be something that becomes a problem.

640
00:33:59,120 --> 00:33:59,239
Speaker 3: Uh.

641
00:33:59,680 --> 00:34:03,880
Speaker 2: But either way, if Halliburton's fantastic to start the series

642
00:34:03,920 --> 00:34:06,720
Speaker 2: because of the coverages, I think Dagnaut will audible to

643
00:34:06,760 --> 00:34:10,160
Speaker 2: switching and to staying home, and if he does, it's

644
00:34:10,200 --> 00:34:12,799
Speaker 2: going to become a matchup attacking series, and it'll be

645
00:34:13,000 --> 00:34:16,719
Speaker 2: I'll take it a step further. It'll be it'll be

646
00:34:16,800 --> 00:34:19,960
Speaker 2: Nie Smith on Ball on Shay, It'll be Siakam attacking matchups.

647
00:34:19,960 --> 00:34:21,520
Speaker 2: And then I think another guy that I would put

648
00:34:21,520 --> 00:34:23,840
Speaker 2: as a key there is actually Ben Matherin, because I

649
00:34:23,960 --> 00:34:25,640
Speaker 2: think Ben Mathern is one of the few guys who

650
00:34:25,640 --> 00:34:29,239
Speaker 2: has the athleticism to like just to just break down

651
00:34:29,239 --> 00:34:31,200
Speaker 2: Oklahoma City's defense at the point of attack.

652
00:34:31,760 --> 00:34:34,120
Speaker 3: That's a good segue into our next question, which is

653
00:34:34,480 --> 00:34:37,359
Speaker 3: who is the most important pacer on offense other than

654
00:34:37,400 --> 00:34:39,200
Speaker 3: Halliburton and Siaco offense only.

655
00:34:39,800 --> 00:34:41,959
Speaker 2: Okay, it'll be I want to take it a step

656
00:34:42,000 --> 00:34:44,640
Speaker 2: further because Mathern is obviously going to be in somewhat

657
00:34:44,640 --> 00:34:49,239
Speaker 2: of a limited role. I think Miles Turner hitting pick

658
00:34:49,280 --> 00:34:51,640
Speaker 2: and pop three's is such a huge, like foundational thing,

659
00:34:52,040 --> 00:34:54,040
Speaker 2: Like if he's not hitting pick and pop threes, then

660
00:34:54,040 --> 00:34:57,000
Speaker 2: you can run drop. If you can run drop or

661
00:34:57,239 --> 00:34:58,920
Speaker 2: I excuse me, not even drop, you can run at

662
00:34:58,920 --> 00:35:02,440
Speaker 2: the level. If if you can bring your big up

663
00:35:02,440 --> 00:35:04,280
Speaker 2: to the level and not have to worry about Turner

664
00:35:04,320 --> 00:35:07,000
Speaker 2: slipping out of the screen and hitting threes, that's that's

665
00:35:07,040 --> 00:35:09,640
Speaker 2: a huge that that's a huge upside to your defense.

666
00:35:09,640 --> 00:35:11,319
Speaker 2: So like Turner hitting pick and pop threes, I think

667
00:35:11,440 --> 00:35:16,200
Speaker 2: is huge. I would say down the roster shooting in general,

668
00:35:16,600 --> 00:35:21,400
Speaker 2: shooting against really good closeouts. I think mathurd would probably

669
00:35:21,560 --> 00:35:23,520
Speaker 2: fourth for me there, Like, I think Mathurin is going

670
00:35:23,560 --> 00:35:25,080
Speaker 2: to be huge like them Hard to me, like it

671
00:35:25,160 --> 00:35:26,920
Speaker 2: kind of is what he is. You know, I'm not

672
00:35:27,080 --> 00:35:30,000
Speaker 2: counting on him to be like the dominant force, but actually,

673
00:35:30,000 --> 00:35:32,440
Speaker 2: you know what, we should probably move them Hard up

674
00:35:34,040 --> 00:35:37,799
Speaker 2: because if Halliburton does kind of succumb to the dort thing,

675
00:35:38,920 --> 00:35:41,319
Speaker 2: Nemhard will be their point guard. And we looked in

676
00:35:41,360 --> 00:35:44,000
Speaker 2: the regular season and in the footage we watched them,

677
00:35:44,040 --> 00:35:45,840
Speaker 2: Hard was getting the ball over and over again.

678
00:35:46,120 --> 00:35:48,520
Speaker 3: Yeah, I was gonna say tonight it felt like because

679
00:35:48,520 --> 00:35:50,239
Speaker 3: of the ball pressure from Game five, it felt like

680
00:35:50,280 --> 00:35:53,279
Speaker 3: they ran a handful more of those stacks may pick

681
00:35:53,280 --> 00:35:55,880
Speaker 3: and rolls with Nemhard being the lead ball handle at

682
00:35:55,920 --> 00:35:58,279
Speaker 3: Haliburton being the third guy to sort of hopefully do

683
00:35:58,400 --> 00:36:01,279
Speaker 3: and I expect a lot of that, a lot of that.

684
00:36:01,880 --> 00:36:03,680
Speaker 2: I think that's gonna have to be there. One of

685
00:36:03,680 --> 00:36:07,080
Speaker 2: their pet actions in terms of like keeping them Halliburton

686
00:36:07,120 --> 00:36:11,960
Speaker 2: involved when he's being denied it did seem like Nemhard

687
00:36:11,960 --> 00:36:13,600
Speaker 2: got a little bit of his mojo back tonight, which

688
00:36:13,600 --> 00:36:14,359
Speaker 2: I think would be key.

689
00:36:14,480 --> 00:36:18,960
Speaker 3: Yeah, I agree. Next question, we'll take a couple more

690
00:36:18,960 --> 00:36:21,840
Speaker 3: before playback. When was the last time that you can remember,

691
00:36:21,960 --> 00:36:24,720
Speaker 3: if you can remember at all, that to both finals

692
00:36:24,760 --> 00:36:29,960
Speaker 3: teams played a ten to eleven man rotation. It's kind

693
00:36:30,000 --> 00:36:32,440
Speaker 3: of crazy that both teams are sort of following that

694
00:36:32,480 --> 00:36:33,920
Speaker 3: same model a little bit.

695
00:36:34,400 --> 00:36:37,040
Speaker 2: I know. I like, well, the Celtics were like pretty

696
00:36:37,120 --> 00:36:39,680
Speaker 2: much running an eight man rotation last year. The Nuggets

697
00:36:39,760 --> 00:36:42,719
Speaker 2: ran a tight rotation, the Warriors ran a little bit

698
00:36:42,760 --> 00:36:44,160
Speaker 2: of a longer rotation. But I still think it was

699
00:36:44,200 --> 00:36:46,680
Speaker 2: like it was like eight or nine yes that year

700
00:36:46,719 --> 00:36:49,960
Speaker 2: because because it was like Looney and in Auto Porter

701
00:36:50,120 --> 00:36:59,080
Speaker 2: Junior Jordan Poole. Yeah, I don't I can't think of one. Yeah, dude,

702
00:36:59,080 --> 00:37:01,680
Speaker 2: that's that's that's crazy. Like, you know what's been interesting though,

703
00:37:01,760 --> 00:37:07,000
Speaker 2: is like we all have our ideologies and like I

704
00:37:07,040 --> 00:37:09,000
Speaker 2: even have like a list that I always give out

705
00:37:09,000 --> 00:37:11,120
Speaker 2: when someone says, like, oh, what's the best way to

706
00:37:11,160 --> 00:37:12,879
Speaker 2: build a basketball team, And I'm like, Okay, you want

707
00:37:12,880 --> 00:37:14,560
Speaker 2: a skill guard, you want an athlete guard, you want

708
00:37:14,560 --> 00:37:17,680
Speaker 2: a kind of a skinnier perimeter, perimeter wing, a bigger forward.

709
00:37:17,840 --> 00:37:21,680
Speaker 2: All that sounds great, but like you kind of two things. One,

710
00:37:21,920 --> 00:37:24,200
Speaker 2: you don't know what kind of roster you're gonnaend up getting,

711
00:37:24,239 --> 00:37:25,640
Speaker 2: and you kind of have to build your team around

712
00:37:25,680 --> 00:37:28,759
Speaker 2: what that roster is. And then two, like there are

713
00:37:29,040 --> 00:37:30,759
Speaker 2: more there is more than one way to win a

714
00:37:30,800 --> 00:37:33,200
Speaker 2: basketball game. They're just they're flat out is and so

715
00:37:33,360 --> 00:37:36,000
Speaker 2: like what's super fascinating is like you can win a

716
00:37:36,000 --> 00:37:39,959
Speaker 2: basketball game being the Indiana Pacers picking up full court,

717
00:37:40,000 --> 00:37:42,520
Speaker 2: playing at absurd pace and blah blah blah. You could

718
00:37:42,520 --> 00:37:45,040
Speaker 2: also win a basketball game being like the Dallas Mavericks

719
00:37:45,080 --> 00:37:47,479
Speaker 2: last year and like walking the ball up the court

720
00:37:47,520 --> 00:37:51,759
Speaker 2: with Luca and just like methodically walking teams now with

721
00:37:51,800 --> 00:37:54,280
Speaker 2: half court offense, Like there's there's more than one way

722
00:37:54,400 --> 00:37:56,799
Speaker 2: to skin a cat, so to speak like that. It

723
00:37:56,960 --> 00:37:59,399
Speaker 2: just is it's fascinating to me that we've seen these

724
00:37:59,440 --> 00:38:02,279
Speaker 2: two particular of their team's matchup, because it kind of

725
00:38:02,280 --> 00:38:05,279
Speaker 2: felt very war of attritiony at times in this postseason.

726
00:38:05,320 --> 00:38:09,279
Speaker 2: And these are the younger, deeper teams that play this

727
00:38:09,440 --> 00:38:12,000
Speaker 2: like kind of hillacious style, but they also don't tax

728
00:38:12,000 --> 00:38:14,200
Speaker 2: any of their players that much because they keep Fitts down.

729
00:38:14,360 --> 00:38:18,080
Speaker 2: Like it's kind of like a super fascinating concept. I

730
00:38:18,719 --> 00:38:21,960
Speaker 2: want to emphasize too, there are guys in these rotations that, like,

731
00:38:22,000 --> 00:38:24,440
Speaker 2: if they were playing for your team, you probably wouldn't

732
00:38:24,440 --> 00:38:26,160
Speaker 2: think they're as good as they look on the pacers,

733
00:38:26,200 --> 00:38:30,520
Speaker 2: So like, don't don't underestimate the organizational element of making

734
00:38:30,560 --> 00:38:34,560
Speaker 2: depth useful. Like like I like I watched Jordan Goodwin

735
00:38:34,640 --> 00:38:38,120
Speaker 2: be okay and in other situations, but I watched him

736
00:38:38,120 --> 00:38:40,759
Speaker 2: with the Lakers be fantastic because he's on a team

737
00:38:40,800 --> 00:38:43,280
Speaker 2: that just needed an athletic guard that can do basic

738
00:38:43,320 --> 00:38:47,400
Speaker 2: stuff like you need you need to like with your roster,

739
00:38:47,800 --> 00:38:51,239
Speaker 2: draft players and go after players that fit an identity

740
00:38:51,400 --> 00:38:54,600
Speaker 2: that matches your team so that in the regular season,

741
00:38:54,600 --> 00:38:56,640
Speaker 2: whether you're using the fifteenth man or the eighth man,

742
00:38:56,719 --> 00:38:59,480
Speaker 2: there's like this role that just like makes sense in

743
00:38:59,520 --> 00:39:02,680
Speaker 2: your offense that like this guy's like to Obi Topping

744
00:39:02,800 --> 00:39:06,800
Speaker 2: comes in and plays the same role that Siakam plays

745
00:39:07,360 --> 00:39:11,839
Speaker 2: like literally and and it's a rough approximation of it,

746
00:39:12,160 --> 00:39:14,719
Speaker 2: but he comes in and does the same thing. And

747
00:39:14,800 --> 00:39:16,920
Speaker 2: because he has some useful skills that kind of fit

748
00:39:16,960 --> 00:39:19,279
Speaker 2: into that role, it makes him a useful player, like

749
00:39:19,560 --> 00:39:22,560
Speaker 2: I don't think it's a coincidence that Landry Shammitt looked

750
00:39:22,640 --> 00:39:25,239
Speaker 2: useful in this series. Like land there are a lot

751
00:39:25,280 --> 00:39:27,719
Speaker 2: of players like Lanzer Shammitt out there in the league

752
00:39:27,800 --> 00:39:30,759
Speaker 2: that can play playoff minutes for you, as long as

753
00:39:30,800 --> 00:39:33,960
Speaker 2: you set up the appropriate structure for them to thrive in.

754
00:39:34,880 --> 00:39:37,680
Speaker 3: We'll take two more questions. This one's a super chat

755
00:39:37,719 --> 00:39:39,640
Speaker 3: for Matt. Thank you for the super chat, he says.

756
00:39:39,960 --> 00:39:42,279
Speaker 3: He says, not an NBA expert, but there seems to

757
00:39:42,320 --> 00:39:45,440
Speaker 3: be some sort of intangible switch or crunch time magic

758
00:39:45,440 --> 00:39:47,360
Speaker 3: to this Pacers team that I can't put my finger on.

759
00:39:47,560 --> 00:39:49,520
Speaker 3: Is that crazy? What can you attribute that to?

760
00:39:50,840 --> 00:39:54,839
Speaker 2: So I do Okay, I I think I'm gonna this

761
00:39:54,880 --> 00:39:56,920
Speaker 2: is complicated because I think, on the one hand, I

762
00:39:56,960 --> 00:39:58,319
Speaker 2: think it has as much to do with the other

763
00:39:58,360 --> 00:39:59,759
Speaker 2: team letting go of the rope as it does with

764
00:39:59,800 --> 00:40:02,719
Speaker 2: them them hitting a switch. I do think that they

765
00:40:03,120 --> 00:40:05,480
Speaker 2: feel the magic a little bit like you could feel

766
00:40:05,480 --> 00:40:07,279
Speaker 2: it in Game one, Like you could feel it in

767
00:40:07,320 --> 00:40:09,120
Speaker 2: Game one where it's like, oh, like they know, they're

768
00:40:09,120 --> 00:40:11,760
Speaker 2: like we've done this before, We're gonna do it again. Yeah,

769
00:40:11,800 --> 00:40:14,480
Speaker 2: there's definitely a little bit of like they feel the magic.

770
00:40:14,520 --> 00:40:17,160
Speaker 2: But at the same time, like I would equate it to,

771
00:40:17,920 --> 00:40:20,440
Speaker 2: they play the same way no matter what, regardless of

772
00:40:20,480 --> 00:40:22,720
Speaker 2: the time in the game. And there is a natural

773
00:40:22,800 --> 00:40:25,160
Speaker 2: human nature piece when a team goes up by ten

774
00:40:25,160 --> 00:40:27,560
Speaker 2: to fifteen points in the final four or five minutes

775
00:40:27,560 --> 00:40:30,800
Speaker 2: where they just naturally relax, and that when you relax

776
00:40:30,840 --> 00:40:33,399
Speaker 2: while the Pacers are still playing Pacers basketball just kind

777
00:40:33,400 --> 00:40:36,360
Speaker 2: of naturally manifest in these like easy runouts and easy

778
00:40:36,440 --> 00:40:39,319
Speaker 2: quick buckets, and that's more or less the genesis of it.

779
00:40:39,719 --> 00:40:42,360
Speaker 3: Yeah, last question before we go over to playback, and

780
00:40:42,480 --> 00:40:46,520
Speaker 3: next question, if you had to pick one big change

781
00:40:46,520 --> 00:40:48,960
Speaker 3: for the next this summer between these two, would you,

782
00:40:49,400 --> 00:40:53,839
Speaker 3: Jason Timp choose to trade Cat or fire Tips have.

783
00:40:53,840 --> 00:40:58,680
Speaker 2: To choose one, have to choose one. I think I

784
00:40:58,760 --> 00:41:05,840
Speaker 2: trade Cat. So this is complicated, but like, do you

785
00:41:05,840 --> 00:41:07,959
Speaker 2: remember when in it was like Game three or four

786
00:41:08,080 --> 00:41:10,719
Speaker 2: when Stam Van Gundy dropped that line about how like

787
00:41:10,800 --> 00:41:12,800
Speaker 2: teams run because of their point guard, not because of

788
00:41:12,840 --> 00:41:17,200
Speaker 2: their coach. Again, I don't necessarily think that's true, but

789
00:41:17,239 --> 00:41:20,040
Speaker 2: I do think there's some truth to it in the

790
00:41:20,080 --> 00:41:24,480
Speaker 2: sense that, like I watched, I've watched as a guy

791
00:41:24,480 --> 00:41:26,319
Speaker 2: who's rooted for Lebron a lot over the years, Like

792
00:41:26,400 --> 00:41:30,000
Speaker 2: I've watched Lebron have success with mediocre coaches because of

793
00:41:30,040 --> 00:41:33,279
Speaker 2: his ability as an on court presence to bring the accountability,

794
00:41:33,320 --> 00:41:36,279
Speaker 2: to bring the intensity in the in the experience and

795
00:41:36,320 --> 00:41:38,120
Speaker 2: all that kind of stuff and even the decision making.

796
00:41:39,400 --> 00:41:43,560
Speaker 2: I feel like trading Cat has a far greater potential

797
00:41:43,600 --> 00:41:46,600
Speaker 2: to bring back useful players that fit within the identity

798
00:41:46,600 --> 00:41:50,480
Speaker 2: of this team then getting rid of TIBs and just

799
00:41:50,520 --> 00:41:52,600
Speaker 2: bringing in some new voice and seeing if that guy

800
00:41:52,600 --> 00:41:55,880
Speaker 2: can fix all their problems. I think I do think

801
00:41:56,000 --> 00:41:58,960
Speaker 2: that I do think that there needs to be like

802
00:41:59,000 --> 00:42:02,560
Speaker 2: a sit down with Tis though in emphasize like and

803
00:42:02,640 --> 00:42:05,239
Speaker 2: I would point out the obvious stuff with Delawn Wright

804
00:42:05,400 --> 00:42:08,399
Speaker 2: and in Landra Shamant and be like, hey, like we

805
00:42:09,200 --> 00:42:11,400
Speaker 2: have to kind of embrace the times and realize this

806
00:42:11,440 --> 00:42:13,759
Speaker 2: is a faster, more transition oriented game. We need to

807
00:42:13,800 --> 00:42:17,040
Speaker 2: go deeper into our bench. All right, guys, that's all

808
00:42:17,080 --> 00:42:19,000
Speaker 2: we have for tonight. On YouTube, We're heading over to

809
00:42:19,000 --> 00:42:21,759
Speaker 2: playback again. That's playback dot tv slash Oops tonight. We'll

810
00:42:21,760 --> 00:42:24,000
Speaker 2: be taking callers and questions and stuff for at least

811
00:42:24,040 --> 00:42:25,600
Speaker 2: forty five minutes or so, so make sure you guys

812
00:42:25,600 --> 00:42:27,920
Speaker 2: head over there. We'll see you guys in just a

813
00:42:27,920 --> 00:42:30,000
Speaker 2: few minutes. And for the YouTube crowd, we will be

814
00:42:30,080 --> 00:42:34,680
Speaker 2: back on Monday morning with our first bit of NBA

815
00:42:34,760 --> 00:42:37,799
Speaker 2: Finals preview content. We'll see you guys then. What's up guys?

816
00:42:37,800 --> 00:42:40,560
Speaker 2: As always, I appreciate you for listening to and supporting

817
00:42:40,600 --> 00:42:43,200
Speaker 2: OOPS tonight. They would actually be really helpful for us

818
00:42:43,239 --> 00:42:45,120
Speaker 2: if you guys would take a second and leave a

819
00:42:45,239 --> 00:42:47,799
Speaker 2: rating and a review. As always, I appreciate you guys

820
00:42:47,800 --> 00:42:49,400
Speaker 2: supporting us, but if you could take a minute to

821
00:42:49,440 --> 00:42:51,480
Speaker 2: do that, I'd really appreciate it.

822
00:42:53,320 --> 00:42:54,000
Speaker 1: The volume