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Speaker 1: Brought to you by the reinvented two thousand twelve Camray.

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Speaker 1: It's ready. Are you welcome to Stuff Mom Never told you?

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Speaker 1: From housetop works dot Com. Hello, and welcome to the podcast.

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Speaker 1: This is Kristen, This is Molly. Molly. This is something

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Speaker 1: that I don't really like to say, even though it's fact.

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Speaker 1: It just sounds so cheesy when you say it out loud.

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Speaker 1: I can't wait to hear what you're gonna say, Molly. Yes,

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Speaker 1: it's swimsuits season. I know, and I groaned automatically. It

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Speaker 1: was just ingrained to me to start groaning. I know,

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Speaker 1: because a lot of times its swimsuit season is followed

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Speaker 1: by some kind of thing telling women about how they

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Speaker 1: need to shape up and get rid of all that

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Speaker 1: their cellulites, and they don't discuss people when they reveal

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Speaker 1: their pale bodies to the world. Yeah, there's all sorts

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Speaker 1: of sub body issues inherent in saying that it swimsuit season.

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Speaker 1: But we're not going to talk about body issues today.

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Speaker 1: We're just gonna focus on those pieces of cloths that

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Speaker 1: stir up both men and women alike every summer. The bapkini,

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Speaker 1: BUKKINI and I just want to give you a sneak

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Speaker 1: peek of this podcast where we're going with this. By

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Speaker 1: the end of it, Christmas is going to point out

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Speaker 1: that the bikini is the ultimate feminist icon. WHOA, I know,

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Speaker 1: is your mind blown? I didn't see that coming. I

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Speaker 1: didn't either. I didn't know I was going to do that.

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Speaker 1: I've got some work to do then in the next

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Speaker 1: twenty minutes. All right, Molly, let's get started, because the

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Speaker 1: history of the bikini, as the title of this podcast implies,

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Speaker 1: ain't so skimpy. Yes, more coverage than you had thought

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Speaker 1: possible with the bikini, so many puns to be had.

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Speaker 1: In this episode. We need to go back in time, Molly,

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Speaker 1: we need to go back BC. I did not realize this, Molly,

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Speaker 1: but the first recorded use of a form of bathing

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Speaker 1: costume was in Greece and three fifty BC. And there's

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Speaker 1: actually a fourth century mosaic wall in the Piazza ar Marina,

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Speaker 1: probably saying that I wish I could do an Italian

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Speaker 1: accent in sicily depicting women wearing bikinis. It's amazing. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: But as ancient Rome falls and the Greeks and all

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Speaker 1: the ancient civilizations die, out there comes the rise of

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Speaker 1: prudishness and shame regarding one's body, and no one went swimming. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: they would go bathing, you know, but not recreationally swimming

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Speaker 1: like we think of swimming today. During the eighteenth century,

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Speaker 1: they'd have spas where men and women would go, you know,

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Speaker 1: to to the public bathhouses, maybe go take a steam.

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Speaker 1: It was very therapeutic. It was medicinal. It was not like,

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Speaker 1: let's go splash around in the water. So it may

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Speaker 1: seem like we made a huge jump from like BC

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Speaker 1: to the eighteenth century, but I mean, for a long time,

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Speaker 1: swimming was frowned upon. It just wasn't something. It was

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Speaker 1: not the quintessential summer activity as it is today. But

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Speaker 1: by the mid eighteen hundreds we have the rise of

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Speaker 1: bathing as a recreational activity. And then in the early

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Speaker 1: eighteen hundreds, with the rise of bathing or swimming, we

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Speaker 1: can now call it. I guess we have the emergence

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Speaker 1: of swimwear because you need you can't just walk into

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Speaker 1: the water with a full suit on and and I

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Speaker 1: expect to have a good swim cany moally, Well that's

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Speaker 1: what they expected the ladies to do, that's right. Because

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Speaker 1: first swimsuits from when were essentially just like ball gowns.

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Speaker 1: Me not really, but it was a lot of cloth.

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Speaker 1: And to avoid the poofy ballooning of a skirt that

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Speaker 1: could happen as you get in the water, they would

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Speaker 1: weigh down. They put weights in the hymns of the

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Speaker 1: skirt to make sure that you know, you weren't gonna

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Speaker 1: show any shin. You know, the shin is the most

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Speaker 1: raw part of the leg, so you must hide it

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Speaker 1: at all times. And I don't know about you, Christim,

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Speaker 1: but swimming with weights on doesn't sound like much fun,

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Speaker 1: does It sounds like a recipe for disaster and fun.

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Speaker 1: Side side note to all of this, we actually have

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Speaker 1: the railroad to thank for all of this when we're

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Speaker 1: being invented, because it was with the railroad that people

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Speaker 1: could actually flock to the seasides to go to the beach,

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Speaker 1: thus popularizing the beach activities, thus necessitating the bathing suit. Now,

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Speaker 1: in addition to waiting down the swimming dress, uh, they

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Speaker 1: just went to all sorts of links to make sure

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Speaker 1: that women never had to be seen in a bathing costume.

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Speaker 1: There was this one cool thing that Slate pointed out

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Speaker 1: where it was like a dressing room on wheels, and

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Speaker 1: you'd put the woman in the dressing room wheels, she'd

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Speaker 1: put on her bathe and dress and they would wheel

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Speaker 1: her in the little room like down to the ocean

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Speaker 1: so she could get in the ocean without anyone seeing her,

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Speaker 1: and she could have a dip. And when she was

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Speaker 1: ready to get out, they'd wheel the thing up and

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Speaker 1: pick her up and take her back so that that she

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Speaker 1: could put her clothes on. And this was actually called

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Speaker 1: a bathing machine. Yeah, and it's you know, women just

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Speaker 1: could not be seen on a beach. Yeah, it was

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Speaker 1: a very it was very private thing, which makes sense.

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Speaker 1: This was a Victorian era, the height of prudishness. But

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Speaker 1: then we have some some women who are really tired

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Speaker 1: of being weighted down in the water because first of all,

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Speaker 1: it was probably dangerous and probably really hard to tread water,

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Speaker 1: whilst they pointed out some women died um. But then

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Speaker 1: in nine seven we have Australian swimmer and silent film

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Speaker 1: star Ant Kellerman who has had enough well she needed

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Speaker 1: to swim for for therapeutic reasons because she had had

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Speaker 1: polio and rickets, and so she started swimming to make

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Speaker 1: her legs strong, and she was like, hey, by the way,

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Speaker 1: it's really hard to make my legs strong when I

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Speaker 1: can't move them with all these like pantaloons and waded

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Speaker 1: down skirts and the like that you're making me wear.

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Speaker 1: So she shows up in America on a Boston beach

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Speaker 1: and wears, uh, what we would think of today is

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Speaker 1: a pretty modest swimsuit. It was like a tank top

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Speaker 1: that you know, had no cutouts, so she's not showing

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Speaker 1: any chest, she's showing their arms, but you know she's

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Speaker 1: pretty much covered from neck to thigh essentially. Yeah, and

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Speaker 1: this is a seven and she is arrested for her

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Speaker 1: swimsuit at a public beach beach in Boston for indecent exposure.

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Speaker 1: Can you imagine, no, I mean, if that's indecent exposure,

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Speaker 1: just imagine if those seven policemen could travel through time

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Speaker 1: to a two thousand and ten beach, if only they

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Speaker 1: had our time traveling capabilities that we have on this

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Speaker 1: podcast technology these days now only we would be remiss

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Speaker 1: in this discussion if we didn't mention Agnes Beckwith and

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Speaker 1: a Neck Kellerman, because there were two other women who

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Speaker 1: really helped pave the way for allowing women to go

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Speaker 1: swimming in public without having to worry about revealing the bodies,

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Speaker 1: you know, and being arrested for indecent exposure and all

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Speaker 1: this stuff. Um and back With, for instance, raced in

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Speaker 1: the water. She swam against other guys. She raised four

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Speaker 1: miles from one bridge to Greenwich, and she did that

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Speaker 1: while wearing the full skirted dress, petticoats, pantaloons and stockings,

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Speaker 1: kind of demonstrating that even with all of that swimming

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Speaker 1: costume on she could still keep up with the guys.

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Speaker 1: She was just as strong as one of the guys.

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Speaker 1: And then we also have American Amelia Bloomer, who instituted uh,

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Speaker 1: the Bloomers. We are aware of the clothing Bloomers named

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Speaker 1: after her that she started wearing to replace having to

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Speaker 1: wear the full skirt when she swam. So now we're

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Speaker 1: in the early nine president, and I think that you know,

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Speaker 1: the contribution of someone like back with it. She shows

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Speaker 1: that swimming is a sport, it needs a sports like costume.

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Speaker 1: And so yes, those full bathing dresses gradually faded away. Eventually,

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Speaker 1: those huge blue pants eventually faded away, and you could wear, respectively,

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Speaker 1: a one piece thing that covered you know, from you

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Speaker 1: from your your neck basically to your mid thigh. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: And and a lot of that had to do with

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Speaker 1: uh at Kellerman's arrest because that's set off kind of

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Speaker 1: a whole controversy of well, should she have been arrested

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Speaker 1: for that? Is that really indecent exposure? So that opened

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Speaker 1: the door for you know, saying no, that's ridiculous. Women

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Speaker 1: are drowning in weighted down dresses. So that brings the

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Speaker 1: rise of wos known as the mayo. Yeah, and by

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Speaker 1: nineteen fifteen, this was what American women were commonly wearing. Now,

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Speaker 1: let me just spell myo for you in case you

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Speaker 1: want to like google images of them, because there's so

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Speaker 1: many types of them. It's m A I L l

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Speaker 1: O T. It's the French word for swaddling clothes because

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Speaker 1: when I think of bathing suits, I think of swaddling clothes. Um,

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Speaker 1: but you know they were they kind of buried in

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Speaker 1: size and style, so you could wear one that really

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Speaker 1: covered you up, you could wear one that was a

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Speaker 1: little bit more risque. And one pieces. The term one

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Speaker 1: pieces pretty much replaced mayo, but essentially you're wearing a

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Speaker 1: one piece. It's a mayo. Yes, Now into the twenties

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Speaker 1: and thirties, we do have the emergence of the two piece,

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Speaker 1: not the bikini though. People two pieces a separate thing

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Speaker 1: from the bikini because these two pieces covered up the navel.

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Speaker 1: They would they would come up and sit pretty high

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Speaker 1: up on on your natural waist and then you would

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Speaker 1: have a pretty pretty covered, pretty solid covering for the

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Speaker 1: top to to make this this two piece and uh

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Speaker 1: and I love this. By the end of the nineteen twenties,

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Speaker 1: we had a lot of different novelty suits that were

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Speaker 1: associated with two pieces. So you'd have like a sailor

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Speaker 1: themed suit or maybe a leopard printed suit. Like they

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Speaker 1: really went wild with this with with these new this

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Speaker 1: new swim where provided you didn't see the navel. And

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Speaker 1: that's what I think. It is so funny. I mean

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Speaker 1: everyone has a belly button, you know, but largely Hollywood

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Speaker 1: influenced this because the Hollywood Hayes Code prohibited actresses from

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Speaker 1: showing their navel. Yeah, and so I mean you think

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Speaker 1: about all those starletts who are wearing those two pieces.

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Speaker 1: They you know, we're they seem so sexy, but they're

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Speaker 1: not showing their belly button of all things. Now I

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Speaker 1: should mention that in the thirties we do have the

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Speaker 1: arrival of the bowhouse. But the bow house is probably

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Speaker 1: not something that you have ever really seen on many

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Speaker 1: beaches because the bowhouse style was basically a pair of

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Speaker 1: swim trunks with suspenders for the top. Very naughty. It's

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Speaker 1: Christine's favorite bathing suites style, the bowhouse style. Shall you

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Speaker 1: be sporting it this summer? I shall not? All right,

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Speaker 1: you know what, it's the history of the bikini we

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Speaker 1: need to jump ahead to. We just need to do it,

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Speaker 1: Kristen Small. In order to make the leap to bikini,

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Speaker 1: we've got to leap across the Atlantic Ocean and go

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Speaker 1: to France. Great and in France, two men, independently of

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Speaker 1: each other, came up with the idea for the bikini.

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Speaker 1: We've got Jacque Coim and Louis Reared. I don't know

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Speaker 1: how to give that a French a French twist now,

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Speaker 1: according to Kelly ben Simone, and the name might ring

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Speaker 1: a bell to any other fans of the Real Housewives

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Speaker 1: of New York City. But according to Kelly ben Simon,

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Speaker 1: who wrote the book, actually a good book called the

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Speaker 1: Bikini Book that traces the history of the bikini. Um.

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Speaker 1: She says that attractive women back then were known as bombshells.

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Speaker 1: We know this, and anything intense was atomic, so the

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Speaker 1: bombshell atomic lingo of the day. So the two frenchmen,

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Speaker 1: while they're deciding what to call their new skimpy swimwear,

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Speaker 1: they decided to give them nuclear nicknames. So Jacqueim called

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Speaker 1: his swimsuit the atom a T O M E like

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Speaker 1: a bomb. And then Louis Reared introduced on July four,

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Speaker 1: nine six La Bikini. And that's because the United States

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Speaker 1: had started atomic testing on the Bikini Atoll, right, So

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Speaker 1: essentially the bikini is named after bomb testing. Yeah, so

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Speaker 1: that it is really odd there's a connection between bikinis

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Speaker 1: and bombs. Bombs, Adam bombs, But he's pepa. His invention

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Speaker 1: was going to be as revolutionary as the bomb. Now.

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Speaker 1: I think we should say though, that when Reard wanted

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Speaker 1: to introduce his bikini to the public, he couldn't get

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Speaker 1: models to put it on. It was too risque, so

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Speaker 1: instead he had to hire stripper Micheline Bernardini. That's my

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Speaker 1: terrible French accent. Micheline Bernardini was a stripper who wasn't

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Speaker 1: listed to model it and photos of her in this

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Speaker 1: bikini just circulated throughout the world and the bikini became

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Speaker 1: a sensation. First of all, of course, it was totally

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Speaker 1: scandalized in the US, and personally, I would have scandalized

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Speaker 1: it too, because you no offence micheline, but it kind

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Speaker 1: of looks like you're wearing a string diaper. Yes, Christa

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Speaker 1: was not a fan of the first bikini. It was

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Speaker 1: not the most flattering thing and uh so, yeah, it

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Speaker 1: was very scandalous. Scars and said no miles aware. And

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Speaker 1: in the US, wine swimsuit designers said that this was

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Speaker 1: only for frenchwoman because they were so short. It was

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Speaker 1: just the only thing they could do to even make

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Speaker 1: it look like they had any sort of body at all.

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Speaker 1: But then in the fifties early fifties, we have the

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Speaker 1: arrival of Bridget Bardo. Embardo looks fantastic in a bikini

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Speaker 1: and she has very long legs, and uh so there

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Speaker 1: goes that argument out the window. And gradually they just

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Speaker 1: become more and more popular. Well, there's the rise of

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Speaker 1: the private pool, so you don't have to go, you know,

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Speaker 1: the swimsuit comes into bou because we can all take

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Speaker 1: the railroads and go to the beach. Now you can

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Speaker 1: swim in your own backyard and no one needs to

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Speaker 1: see that you are wearing something that's considered vulgar and

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Speaker 1: only worn by crude, you know, European types. But even

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Speaker 1: in nineteen fifties seven, and this is according to an

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Speaker 1: article that we found in Slate, there was an issue

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Speaker 1: of the magazine Modern Girl that said, it's hardly necessary

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Speaker 1: to raise words over the so called bikini, since it's

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Speaker 1: inconceivable that any girl with tech and decency would ever

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Speaker 1: wear such a thing. So even though you know seven,

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Speaker 1: no girl would wear such a thing. By nineteen sixty

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Speaker 1: five in Time magazine, everyone reports writing them. So it's

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Speaker 1: a very quick adoption. They go from being very vulgar

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Speaker 1: two very accepted, extremely quickly. Yeah, nineteen sixty seven, Time

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Speaker 1: magazine features a survey claiming that sixty of young women

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Speaker 1: had already gone over to bikinis. And part of that,

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Speaker 1: again was Hollywood's influence. Why so those codes were relaxed

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Speaker 1: and one could you know, gas show enabl on the movies.

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Speaker 1: Think about like the James Bond movie where she comes

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Speaker 1: out of water in that gold bikini. I mean, there

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Speaker 1: are very uh strong image images associated with bathing suits

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Speaker 1: in the n OH. Yeah, Raquel Welsh one million years BC. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's that's quite a bikini bod. But with all this

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Speaker 1: talk about bikini's molly, there's one thing that we haven't

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Speaker 1: talked about yet, and that's Sports Illustrated. Now, as I

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Speaker 1: said at the beginning, you could make the argument, as

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Speaker 1: Kristen did, that the bikini is a pretty empowering piece

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Speaker 1: of clothing because it allows you to be free and

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Speaker 1: go swimming and you're not hindered by you know, your

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Speaker 1: bloomers or your bathing machine. I do think that body

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Speaker 1: issues aside that you can tie into it, it is

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Speaker 1: a pretty cool thing that finally women were allowed to

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Speaker 1: just swim unencumbered. Yeah. Because, once again, as this often

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Speaker 1: happens in my podcast research, the notion that I had

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Speaker 1: going into learning about bikinis was different than the notion

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Speaker 1: that I had coming out of it, Because when we

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Speaker 1: think of bikinis today, I feel like it's so loaded

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Speaker 1: with body issues and fulfilling the male gaze and things

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Speaker 1: like Sports Illustrated and over emphasis on breast size, all

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Speaker 1: of this stuff without really appreciating this history and the

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Speaker 1: struggle for women to literally cast off all of this

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Speaker 1: extra clothing so that they could swim right alongside men

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Speaker 1: and not be literally and metaphorically molly weighted down by

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Speaker 1: the constraints of heteronormative society. Yeah, you get to go

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Speaker 1: to the beach and actually enjoy your vacation because you're

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Speaker 1: not stuck in your bathing machine that's rolling you to

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Speaker 1: the water. You can play on the sand, you can swim.

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Speaker 1: As Kristen said, without being metaphorically weighed down. I was

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Speaker 1: pretty impressed with like the history of the bikini. But then,

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Speaker 1: as krist And just said, we got our brain Sports

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Speaker 1: Illustrated into it. The first unquote Sports Illustrated swimsuit edition

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Speaker 1: came out in nineteen sixty four. But it didn't have

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Speaker 1: anything to do with a bunch of sports editors wanting

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Speaker 1: to publish photos of scantily clad women. It really had

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Speaker 1: to do with a lack of sports news to cover.

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Speaker 1: So they were like, hey, we got some extra editorial

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Speaker 1: space to fill. I've got an idea, let's put in

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Speaker 1: a picture of a woman in a bikini. Yeah. It

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Speaker 1: was all about like going diving in the Caribbean. You know,

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Speaker 1: there was almost even you know, a little bit of

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Speaker 1: a story. They didnt even call it the swimsuit issue,

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Speaker 1: you know, it's just like, hey, here's some there's some

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Speaker 1: things gonna wear the next time you're in the Caribbean sporting.

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Speaker 1: It didn't actually become a standalone product until ven when

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Speaker 1: a very young, very bucksom Tira of Banks and a

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Speaker 1: very iconic photo graced the cover of the very four

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Speaker 1: first actual standalone sports Illustrated Swimsuit Edition. Now, I think

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Speaker 1: the reason that people get so worked up about the

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Speaker 1: swimsuit issue is that very quickly they abandoned tradition, all

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Speaker 1: ideas of what a swimsuit is. Like Sheryl Tis wears

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Speaker 1: a see through fishnet one piece, so at that point

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Speaker 1: you're like, this is not really illustrating something I can

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Speaker 1: wear while I'm being sporting on the beach. This is

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Speaker 1: just you're trying to see through. And then in we

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Speaker 1: have Heidi Clum standing there in a quote unquote painted swimsuit,

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Speaker 1: which is actually Clum just standing naked with some tidy

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Speaker 1: paint all over her torso. So I think that that's

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Speaker 1: part of why it's so controversial, is like, you know,

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Speaker 1: if you can separate all the body issues from the

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Speaker 1: bikini and then just think, oh, this is something I

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Speaker 1: wear while I'm on the beach, Like Gabriel Reese, the

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Speaker 1: volleyball player, competes in a bikini. And so if you

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Speaker 1: can take this thing that was like, hey, here's something,

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Speaker 1: here's a healthy woman, perfectly happy in the surf. Let's

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Speaker 1: have her hold her boobs and paint a bikini on her.

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Speaker 1: Then yeah, the bikini comes like this objectification of women. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I was really surprised also when I was researching this

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Speaker 1: subject because I and maybe it was just because I

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Speaker 1: wasn't looking hard enough, but I did not come across

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Speaker 1: any academic papers as I was expecting to really dissecting,

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Speaker 1: you know, the feminism and the bikini and kind of

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Speaker 1: this idea of you know, women being objectified as sex

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Speaker 1: objects when they put on these bikini, Like what kind

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Speaker 1: of messages are we sending out to people? Is it

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Speaker 1: healthy for us to wear these things? All all of

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Speaker 1: the stuff, you know. But then I came to the

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Speaker 1: conclusion that maybe that's because it should be an empowering thing,

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Speaker 1: and it's actually I largely blame UH Sports Illustrated Swimsuit

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Speaker 1: edition for attaching all these body issues to bikinis, because

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Speaker 1: I feel like it wasn't until Sports Illustrated that you

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Speaker 1: have this cultural idea of what a woman should look

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Speaker 1: like in a bikini. Not to say that, you know,

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Speaker 1: Sports Illustrated is responsible for body issues that women have

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Speaker 1: probably had throughout time, um, but I do think that

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Speaker 1: probably had a lot to do with, um feeling inadequate

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Speaker 1: when you put one on, even if you're perfectly healthy

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Speaker 1: and fit right. And I liked this quote from Slate

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Speaker 1: by Brian Curtis. He wrote, Sports Illustrated editors have always

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Speaker 1: thought obliged to pretend that the swimsuit issue is a

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Speaker 1: source of massive national controversy. This is best observed in

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Speaker 1: their insistence two weeks after the annual issue on printing

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Speaker 1: correspondence from outraged parents and the smirched librarians. So here

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Speaker 1: you have this magazine that you know, fifty one weeks

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Speaker 1: out of the year it's just football, basketball, baseball, et cetera.

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Speaker 1: And then one week out the year they're like half

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Speaker 1: naked women. This is so crazy. We're getting banned in

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Speaker 1: the supermarkets because people aren't don't know what to do,

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Speaker 1: and I think that they know themselves fed that sort

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Speaker 1: of spectacle of Hey, this is this is crazy that

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Speaker 1: we do this. Well, look how radical we are. And

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Speaker 1: it also overly sexualizes the bikini. What started out as

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Speaker 1: basically a uniform for a recreational activity, just like you

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Speaker 1: put on jogging shorts when you're gonna go for a run.

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Speaker 1: It turns it into, um, something totally eroticized. I mean,

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Speaker 1: when Molly and I were talking about this earlier, kind

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Speaker 1: of um coming to terms with I guess the message

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Speaker 1: that it sends when you are walking down the beach

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Speaker 1: in a bikini kind of bearing all. Um. It's kind

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Speaker 1: of hard because I don't think that you can ever

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Speaker 1: remove the erotic from a naked woman's body. And I

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Speaker 1: don't think that that's necessarily a bad thing. I think

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Speaker 1: that that's part of it. But I think it is

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Speaker 1: unfortunate that the bikini has become such a source of

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Speaker 1: angst for women, um, whereas it should be I think

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Speaker 1: a source of empowerment. Yeah, well, on that note, I mean,

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Speaker 1: I can't say any better myself. We want your thoughts

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Speaker 1: on the bikini our email addresses mom stuff at house

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Speaker 1: selfworks dot com. Is the bikini empowering? Isn't the worst

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Speaker 1: thing that ever happened. Are you excited about summer? Are

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00:21:53,520 --> 00:21:56,600
Speaker 1: you excited that vintage one piece Mayo's are coming back

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Speaker 1: into style? I know they are. You can find some

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Speaker 1: really cute Maya's this season, very flattering. Well, send us

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00:22:02,000 --> 00:22:04,160
Speaker 1: your thoughts. Our email is mom stuff at how stuff

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Speaker 1: works dot com, or if you would like to share

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00:22:06,720 --> 00:22:08,760
Speaker 1: your thoughts with other listeners, you should head over to

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00:22:08,840 --> 00:22:13,760
Speaker 1: our Facebook page. It is Facebook dot com backslash stuff

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00:22:13,800 --> 00:22:16,520
Speaker 1: Mom never told you, or you can just search stuff

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00:22:16,520 --> 00:22:19,400
Speaker 1: Mom never told you in your handy Facebook search bar,

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00:22:20,200 --> 00:22:23,600
Speaker 1: as you probably know. And now we'll do a little

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Speaker 1: bit of listener mail. We're gonna summarize a little bit

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Speaker 1: today and not read line by line just because we've

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Speaker 1: got a lot of email on our Japanese Condom Sales podcast,

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Speaker 1: very mixed reactions. Um, so let's get into some of them.

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Speaker 1: So first, let's start with a pretty pretty good correction.

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Speaker 1: I think we got that we may not have defined

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Speaker 1: all the terms related to manga and a talk of

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Speaker 1: culture as narrowly as you might, and so we might

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Speaker 1: have painted all people who read manga as people who's

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Speaker 1: love with body pillows, and that is definitely not you.

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Speaker 1: You can you can obviously make there are tons of

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Speaker 1: genres and we might have just sort of grouped them

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Speaker 1: all together for ease of our own podcast, which is

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Speaker 1: never the way we should do things here. Yeah, and uh,

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Speaker 1: speaking of the Otaku moa and sleeping with body pillows,

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Speaker 1: we were called out for jumping on a media trend

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Speaker 1: that paints an unfair portrait of a very small group

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Speaker 1: of men in Japan and extrapola set to the entire population,

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Speaker 1: and that wasn't what Molly and I were trying to do. Admittedly,

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Speaker 1: there were not that many articles that we found specifically

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Speaker 1: about the moe associated with the pillow thing, okay um,

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Speaker 1: but there were a lot of articles going back to

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Speaker 1: the mid nineties about this idea of Japanese men um

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Speaker 1: some Japanese men as herbivores versus carnivores, which we talked about.

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Speaker 1: And if you want more info and that, of course,

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Speaker 1: you can go back and listen to the podcast. But

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Speaker 1: I would like to clarify that our research did go

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Speaker 1: back more than uh the episode of thirty Rock with

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Speaker 1: James Franco in an article in the New York Times magazine, right,

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Speaker 1: you know, people thought it was just once one weird

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Speaker 1: story we had gotten out of Japan and we weren't

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Speaker 1: taking japan culture as a whole. But as you said,

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Speaker 1: they go back many years now. Let's also point out

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Speaker 1: that the title was a little bit tongue in cheek, yes,

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Speaker 1: because we've got many emails that tried to explain to

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Speaker 1: us all the reasons why Japanese condom sales might be dropping,

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Speaker 1: and these included things like the aging of the Japanese population,

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Speaker 1: the Japanese attitude towards work. One woman wrote in and

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Speaker 1: she had a Japanese boyfriend. He has to work, you know,

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Speaker 1: sixty hours a week, and so she's like, of course,

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Speaker 1: you know you sleep when you get home after that

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Speaker 1: kind of work week, you may not be having as

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Speaker 1: much sex um. One person pointed out that the age

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Speaker 1: in which Japanese youth lose their porginity is actually not

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Speaker 1: that different than in the US, So obviously, you know,

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Speaker 1: it's it's a complex as you and the and the

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Speaker 1: point we were trying to make with the title was

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Speaker 1: admittedly to get your attention, which it did, but it

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Speaker 1: wasn't to try to the answer to that question in

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Speaker 1: the podcast was not, Uh, Japanese condom sales have dropped

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Speaker 1: because people read manga. That wasn't the point at all.

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Speaker 1: So thanks to all of you though who wrote in

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Speaker 1: response to it, whether you had criticisms or praise. Molly

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00:25:14,320 --> 00:25:17,280
Speaker 1: and I need to hear it all um So again,

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00:25:17,280 --> 00:25:19,640
Speaker 1: our email is mom Stuff at how stuff works dot com.

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Speaker 1: You can also follow us during the week on our

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Speaker 1: Twitter it is mom Stuff podcast. Join us on there,

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Speaker 1: and then you can finally head over to our brand

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Speaker 1: new blog It's called stuff Mom Never told You Surprise,

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Speaker 1: dot com. For more on this and thousands of other topics,

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Speaker 1: does it how stuff works dot com. Want more how

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