1 00:00:01,400 --> 00:00:03,480 Speaker 1: Quody digs, but Joseph's gotten more. 2 00:00:05,920 --> 00:00:09,080 Speaker 2: There's quite a number of snack foods out there that 3 00:00:09,960 --> 00:00:12,320 Speaker 2: I don't care for. I guess everybody could say that 4 00:00:14,840 --> 00:00:18,360 Speaker 2: any number of things that just don't quite seem natural. 5 00:00:18,520 --> 00:00:20,759 Speaker 2: A lot of the chips, you know, and I look, 6 00:00:20,800 --> 00:00:23,479 Speaker 2: I can eat them, I'd like to eat them, but 7 00:00:23,520 --> 00:00:25,560 Speaker 2: I just I look at them. I look at a cheeto, 8 00:00:25,920 --> 00:00:29,080 Speaker 2: and I love cheetos, but I just know they're not real, 9 00:00:29,360 --> 00:00:31,840 Speaker 2: you know what I'm saying. Or maybe even a dorito. 10 00:00:32,000 --> 00:00:34,280 Speaker 2: I love Dorito's, but I can look at them and say, 11 00:00:34,320 --> 00:00:36,800 Speaker 2: that's not a naturally occurring thing. It's not like a 12 00:00:37,200 --> 00:00:41,199 Speaker 2: even a sliced potato chip. I guess my preference is 13 00:00:42,400 --> 00:00:47,199 Speaker 2: anything you have to shell. I love nuts. Pecans in particular. 14 00:00:47,240 --> 00:00:50,800 Speaker 2: I don't say pecan, even though I'm from the South US. 15 00:00:50,880 --> 00:00:55,600 Speaker 2: Others in the South say pecan and like pecan probleins. 16 00:00:57,320 --> 00:01:01,680 Speaker 2: But I've always liked almonds for some reason, particularly if 17 00:01:01,680 --> 00:01:06,360 Speaker 2: they're highly salted. There's something very satisfying. But you know 18 00:01:06,440 --> 00:01:12,360 Speaker 2: something interesting about almonds. Almonds are actually associated with something 19 00:01:12,400 --> 00:01:16,000 Speaker 2: that's quite lethal. Many people don't know this. I'm gonna 20 00:01:16,040 --> 00:01:21,120 Speaker 2: drop a little knowledge on you. If, in fact, you 21 00:01:21,200 --> 00:01:24,640 Speaker 2: were to walk into a room and there's a dead 22 00:01:24,640 --> 00:01:28,479 Speaker 2: body there and you get a whiff of what people 23 00:01:28,560 --> 00:01:35,880 Speaker 2: refer to as I've described as sour, rotten or burnt almonds, 24 00:01:37,319 --> 00:01:42,000 Speaker 2: turn around as quickly as you possibly can, because if 25 00:01:42,040 --> 00:01:45,200 Speaker 2: you don't, there's a high probability you're going to be 26 00:01:45,240 --> 00:01:51,720 Speaker 2: exposed to cyanide. Coming to you from the beautiful campus 27 00:01:51,800 --> 00:01:56,600 Speaker 2: of Jacksonville State University, I'm Joseph Scott Morgan and this 28 00:01:57,880 --> 00:02:03,520 Speaker 2: is Bodybags, Brother Dave. You know what, I think a 29 00:02:03,560 --> 00:02:05,800 Speaker 2: lot of people would be shocked because it's such a 30 00:02:06,000 --> 00:02:13,240 Speaker 2: movie cliche device, whatever you want to say, that you 31 00:02:13,280 --> 00:02:16,320 Speaker 2: would assume that I've probably worked a lot of poisons. 32 00:02:16,400 --> 00:02:19,119 Speaker 2: Did you know that poisons most of the time are 33 00:02:19,280 --> 00:02:21,560 Speaker 2: certainly the exception and not the norm. I think that 34 00:02:21,639 --> 00:02:25,320 Speaker 2: there's something, there's a thing that's kind of this aura 35 00:02:25,480 --> 00:02:28,640 Speaker 2: that's built up about the utility of different poisons and 36 00:02:28,680 --> 00:02:31,760 Speaker 2: being able to slip them into you know, we famously 37 00:02:31,800 --> 00:02:36,040 Speaker 2: have covered this mushroom case out of Australia, and that 38 00:02:36,040 --> 00:02:37,840 Speaker 2: thing seems like it's gone on and on and on 39 00:02:37,880 --> 00:02:40,079 Speaker 2: and it's finally reached a conclusion. Of course, those were 40 00:02:40,800 --> 00:02:45,400 Speaker 2: death cap mushrooms us there. But we have previously talked 41 00:02:45,440 --> 00:02:49,600 Speaker 2: about let's see. Oh yeah, and jet Lyles the case 42 00:02:49,639 --> 00:02:52,440 Speaker 2: from the fifties, Remember that she owned the restaurant and 43 00:02:52,560 --> 00:02:57,280 Speaker 2: was poisoning with andro ant poisoning, was poisoning her family. 44 00:02:57,320 --> 00:03:00,760 Speaker 2: But you know, when it comes to cyanide, I think 45 00:03:00,919 --> 00:03:05,080 Speaker 2: maybe I have had two cases only one of which 46 00:03:05,200 --> 00:03:09,239 Speaker 2: was a homicide, the other the other was as a 47 00:03:09,280 --> 00:03:15,560 Speaker 2: result of somebody being exposed in a oh, in a 48 00:03:15,600 --> 00:03:19,040 Speaker 2: farming setting, you know where they were. Side is actually used. 49 00:03:19,040 --> 00:03:21,000 Speaker 3: But wait a minute, it's used for what do you 50 00:03:21,160 --> 00:03:24,200 Speaker 3: use cyanide for on a farm? I have heard this before, but. 51 00:03:24,440 --> 00:03:28,360 Speaker 2: Well they're they're used. It's used in poisoning, yeah, you know, 52 00:03:28,480 --> 00:03:30,840 Speaker 2: for for various types of. 53 00:03:30,440 --> 00:03:34,560 Speaker 1: Of weeds and stuff forms about yeah. 54 00:03:34,760 --> 00:03:37,960 Speaker 2: Well not just weeds, but yeah, yeah, particularly when it 55 00:03:37,960 --> 00:03:40,200 Speaker 2: comes to you know, rat poisoning, those sorts of things. 56 00:03:40,240 --> 00:03:42,360 Speaker 2: And there's a lot of different compounds. 57 00:03:41,960 --> 00:03:44,760 Speaker 3: But it is cyanide, something like okay, arsenic is something 58 00:03:44,840 --> 00:03:48,240 Speaker 3: found in rat poison. I remember Marie Hilly and Amiston, Alabama, 59 00:03:48,680 --> 00:03:50,760 Speaker 3: you know, the Black Widow and using arsenic. 60 00:03:50,880 --> 00:03:53,480 Speaker 1: Yea, But cyanide. 61 00:03:53,560 --> 00:03:56,440 Speaker 3: Whenever I think of cyanide, I think of movies that 62 00:03:56,560 --> 00:04:00,400 Speaker 3: feature Nazi spies and they whenever they get caught, you know, 63 00:04:00,440 --> 00:04:03,000 Speaker 3: they pop a tooth out and they scunched down on 64 00:04:03,040 --> 00:04:05,440 Speaker 3: a Cyanai tablet and foam comes out of their mouth 65 00:04:05,520 --> 00:04:07,480 Speaker 3: like they chewed up an Aco seltzer and they died 66 00:04:07,600 --> 00:04:08,040 Speaker 3: that quick. 67 00:04:09,160 --> 00:04:11,000 Speaker 2: Yeah, cracking the tooth opening getting us. 68 00:04:11,040 --> 00:04:15,080 Speaker 3: And that's what how many of the Nazis before after 69 00:04:15,120 --> 00:04:16,240 Speaker 3: the war and before I don't. 70 00:04:16,120 --> 00:04:18,560 Speaker 2: Know famously, And I still have yet to get to 71 00:04:18,560 --> 00:04:20,880 Speaker 2: see this movie, and I probably ought to because I 72 00:04:20,920 --> 00:04:24,000 Speaker 2: love War two, the Nuremberg thing that's come out with 73 00:04:24,080 --> 00:04:28,480 Speaker 2: Russell Crude lately. And he plays uh oh, what's his name, Gearing, 74 00:04:28,600 --> 00:04:30,960 Speaker 2: the guy that was in charge Gurring. Yeah, he plays 75 00:04:31,000 --> 00:04:33,000 Speaker 2: the head of the big fat guy. You know, he 76 00:04:33,080 --> 00:04:35,679 Speaker 2: cheated he yeah, he cheated the Hayman the day before 77 00:04:35,720 --> 00:04:40,960 Speaker 2: he had Sanad. That made me think of it, I think, yeah, 78 00:04:41,000 --> 00:04:42,880 Speaker 2: And a lot of those guys knocked themselves off that 79 00:04:42,920 --> 00:04:44,280 Speaker 2: ways highly effected. 80 00:04:43,920 --> 00:04:46,760 Speaker 3: You know with Gearing, you know, he very quick aside 81 00:04:47,320 --> 00:04:51,000 Speaker 3: Herman Gearing was a World War One flying ace. But 82 00:04:51,080 --> 00:04:54,000 Speaker 3: then it's like Adolf Hitler and the rest of that 83 00:04:54,240 --> 00:04:59,240 Speaker 3: upper echelong of crazy wacko nut job Nazis. They all 84 00:04:59,279 --> 00:05:01,640 Speaker 3: became under the care of the same doctor who had 85 00:05:01,680 --> 00:05:05,640 Speaker 3: them all tripping on amphetamines, a cocaine, and he had 86 00:05:05,680 --> 00:05:08,960 Speaker 3: every every narcotic drug known to mankind at the time 87 00:05:09,120 --> 00:05:11,560 Speaker 3: those guys were taking it, you know, because towards, you know, 88 00:05:11,680 --> 00:05:13,760 Speaker 3: towards the last six months of the war, you got 89 00:05:13,760 --> 00:05:15,800 Speaker 3: Adolf Hitler shaking so bad and he looks like he's 90 00:05:15,839 --> 00:05:18,200 Speaker 3: eighty years old when he's only like fifty five. Herman 91 00:05:18,320 --> 00:05:21,520 Speaker 3: gerring was the size of a whale, and uh, you 92 00:05:21,560 --> 00:05:23,080 Speaker 3: know anyway that and. 93 00:05:23,000 --> 00:05:24,800 Speaker 2: You would think, being on all the stimulants, that his 94 00:05:24,880 --> 00:05:27,280 Speaker 2: metabolism would be so sick that he would. 95 00:05:27,120 --> 00:05:28,839 Speaker 3: He sat down at the table and ate like you 96 00:05:28,839 --> 00:05:30,760 Speaker 3: know Louis the fifteenth or whatever, you know, one of 97 00:05:30,800 --> 00:05:33,000 Speaker 3: those you know where you see him with the big 98 00:05:33,440 --> 00:05:34,400 Speaker 3: mullet in their hands. 99 00:05:34,520 --> 00:05:37,520 Speaker 2: Yeah, but don't get him, don't get him near a 100 00:05:37,520 --> 00:05:38,080 Speaker 2: dessert card. 101 00:05:38,120 --> 00:05:40,440 Speaker 1: He'll like their cart and spit out the wheels. 102 00:05:40,680 --> 00:05:43,120 Speaker 3: But now, well, the thing that gets me about silence 103 00:05:43,120 --> 00:05:46,719 Speaker 3: is that is it is it something that is that 104 00:05:46,880 --> 00:05:48,640 Speaker 3: small of a dozage you could have it in a 105 00:05:48,640 --> 00:05:51,800 Speaker 3: capsule in your mouth that you really could just crack 106 00:05:51,880 --> 00:05:53,400 Speaker 3: it and die. 107 00:05:53,800 --> 00:05:57,520 Speaker 2: Wow. Yeah, it's that lethal. Yeah wow, particularly if you're 108 00:05:57,640 --> 00:06:03,240 Speaker 2: if there's a direct uh, inhaling of it or certainly 109 00:06:03,279 --> 00:06:07,640 Speaker 2: in gesture of it. It's a nasty it's a nasty substance. 110 00:06:08,560 --> 00:06:13,039 Speaker 2: And here here's something interesting. That's the reason my opening 111 00:06:13,279 --> 00:06:17,120 Speaker 2: was like this. The cases that I worked, all right, now, 112 00:06:17,200 --> 00:06:19,520 Speaker 2: just you know, kind of let this sleeep into your 113 00:06:19,520 --> 00:06:22,400 Speaker 2: groundwater a little bit. The cases that I worked, I 114 00:06:22,440 --> 00:06:26,159 Speaker 2: worked with the same doctor, the same forensic pathologist, all right, 115 00:06:26,200 --> 00:06:28,240 Speaker 2: and we knew that we had to sign on poisoning 116 00:06:28,360 --> 00:06:31,719 Speaker 2: or somebody that had been exposed. And I remember being 117 00:06:31,880 --> 00:06:34,040 Speaker 2: very it's one of these things. It's not too many 118 00:06:34,040 --> 00:06:36,480 Speaker 2: times I was ever afraid in the morgue, you know 119 00:06:36,520 --> 00:06:38,520 Speaker 2: what I'm saying. I mean a lot of people will say, well, 120 00:06:38,560 --> 00:06:41,120 Speaker 2: there's dead bodies. No, I was never afraid of dead bodies. 121 00:06:41,640 --> 00:06:45,080 Speaker 2: I was afraid of certain agents and diseases. 122 00:06:45,440 --> 00:06:45,640 Speaker 3: You know. 123 00:06:46,440 --> 00:06:51,640 Speaker 2: I did a I remember, I'll give you an example, 124 00:06:52,120 --> 00:06:54,719 Speaker 2: and doesn't have anything to do with sign on poison 125 00:06:54,839 --> 00:06:57,560 Speaker 2: But just so people understand what it's like. I had 126 00:06:57,560 --> 00:07:01,680 Speaker 2: a guy that was twenty four years old. He died 127 00:07:02,080 --> 00:07:05,280 Speaker 2: within twenty four hours of his first presentation at the 128 00:07:05,279 --> 00:07:09,279 Speaker 2: hospital had a headache where initially he complained he thought 129 00:07:09,320 --> 00:07:14,000 Speaker 2: his head was going to explode, and he had me 130 00:07:14,080 --> 00:07:23,640 Speaker 2: ninjel coxemia and it's highly, highly, highly the lethal level 131 00:07:23,640 --> 00:07:27,400 Speaker 2: of lethality is off the charts, all right, and it 132 00:07:27,440 --> 00:07:31,640 Speaker 2: can be spread. And I remember the doctor telling me specifically, 133 00:07:31,760 --> 00:07:35,040 Speaker 2: you've got to be careful when we're going to do 134 00:07:35,160 --> 00:07:40,040 Speaker 2: this chase. Okay, and this kid, his body was so 135 00:07:40,120 --> 00:07:45,480 Speaker 2: fresh when we got him from the hospital that his 136 00:07:45,640 --> 00:07:48,280 Speaker 2: organs were still all warm. It's one less cases that 137 00:07:48,360 --> 00:07:50,400 Speaker 2: stands out because most of the time when you open 138 00:07:50,440 --> 00:07:53,640 Speaker 2: a body, the body is really cult to. We've talked 139 00:07:53,680 --> 00:07:57,120 Speaker 2: about this in postmar interval. But yeah, in this particular case, 140 00:07:57,200 --> 00:08:00,360 Speaker 2: his organs were still warm, and I remember for that, 141 00:08:00,600 --> 00:08:03,160 Speaker 2: and plus he had a fever that was just it 142 00:08:03,200 --> 00:08:06,440 Speaker 2: was raging. I mean, the entire time was like one 143 00:08:06,480 --> 00:08:07,920 Speaker 2: oh three point five up to one. 144 00:08:08,200 --> 00:08:09,760 Speaker 3: He used to work at one of three point seven 145 00:08:09,800 --> 00:08:12,880 Speaker 3: one time. But you know, Joe, the reason we're doing 146 00:08:12,960 --> 00:08:16,280 Speaker 3: the show today is because we actually have a true 147 00:08:16,320 --> 00:08:19,840 Speaker 3: life case of cyanide being used as a murder weapon. 148 00:08:20,280 --> 00:08:23,080 Speaker 3: And I was kind of taken aback. We have a 149 00:08:23,120 --> 00:08:26,840 Speaker 3: young couple, Alina asif she is forty six. Her husband, 150 00:08:27,120 --> 00:08:33,320 Speaker 3: Asif Kureshi is fifty three, and they have three children eighteen, fourteen, 151 00:08:33,440 --> 00:08:38,199 Speaker 3: and seven. And they are separated as a couple. And 152 00:08:39,400 --> 00:08:45,000 Speaker 3: this is one of those things that I fear for 153 00:08:45,240 --> 00:08:50,360 Speaker 3: people going through a divorce and a separation because you 154 00:08:50,440 --> 00:08:53,920 Speaker 3: don't you can't predict the way somebody is going to act, 155 00:08:54,600 --> 00:08:57,800 Speaker 3: how they're going to respond to different things, even in 156 00:08:57,840 --> 00:09:01,000 Speaker 3: a when the relationship breaks down, and you've got three 157 00:09:01,040 --> 00:09:05,280 Speaker 3: children that are old enough to understand. In this particular case, 158 00:09:06,240 --> 00:09:10,600 Speaker 3: we've got the Seve Koreshi is not living in the home. 159 00:09:11,080 --> 00:09:14,360 Speaker 3: He has moved out, has his own place. Wife and 160 00:09:14,400 --> 00:09:16,280 Speaker 3: three kids all live in the same home. The eighteen 161 00:09:16,320 --> 00:09:18,679 Speaker 3: year old leaves for school like normal, like seven o'clock, 162 00:09:19,360 --> 00:09:22,880 Speaker 3: seven point fifty. Mom takes the fourteen year old to school. 163 00:09:23,120 --> 00:09:27,120 Speaker 3: Now she doesn't leave their seven year old daughter home alone. 164 00:09:27,360 --> 00:09:30,760 Speaker 3: She goes with them. Okay, so all the children have 165 00:09:30,840 --> 00:09:33,560 Speaker 3: gone to school, except Mom comes back after taking the 166 00:09:33,559 --> 00:09:35,800 Speaker 3: fourteen year old and she and the seven year old 167 00:09:35,800 --> 00:09:37,800 Speaker 3: hanging out for a little while until it's time for 168 00:09:37,840 --> 00:09:40,760 Speaker 3: her the seven year old to go to school. I 169 00:09:40,800 --> 00:09:44,280 Speaker 3: see Elena walks the seven year old to school. I'm 170 00:09:44,320 --> 00:09:46,120 Speaker 3: just thinking of the sweetness of all of this show. 171 00:09:46,600 --> 00:09:51,839 Speaker 3: I mean the mom saying goodbye to the college aged daughter, 172 00:09:52,080 --> 00:09:54,520 Speaker 3: proud to you have a good day, taking the fourteen 173 00:09:54,600 --> 00:09:56,600 Speaker 3: year old to school, proud to you have a good day, 174 00:09:57,400 --> 00:10:01,240 Speaker 3: and then walking with her seven year old, proud of 175 00:10:01,240 --> 00:10:04,520 Speaker 3: you have a good day. When she gets back home, 176 00:10:05,640 --> 00:10:12,400 Speaker 3: unbeknownst to her death awaits in between the time that 177 00:10:12,559 --> 00:10:14,800 Speaker 3: she took the fourteen year old to school, when all 178 00:10:15,360 --> 00:10:18,079 Speaker 3: everybody who's out of the house, her ex husband or 179 00:10:18,120 --> 00:10:21,120 Speaker 3: soon to be ex husband see I Kureshi, snuck in. 180 00:10:22,240 --> 00:10:24,400 Speaker 3: So she drops the fourteen year old off, comes home 181 00:10:24,400 --> 00:10:26,600 Speaker 3: with a seven year old. He's hiding in the house, Joe. 182 00:10:26,920 --> 00:10:30,800 Speaker 3: He's there the whole time. When she leaves to take 183 00:10:30,840 --> 00:10:34,120 Speaker 3: the seven year old to school, he plans and plots. 184 00:10:34,760 --> 00:10:38,600 Speaker 3: When she returns on her own, that's when he attacks. 185 00:10:38,920 --> 00:10:42,000 Speaker 3: She returns home just before nine am. He's in there 186 00:10:42,000 --> 00:10:44,440 Speaker 3: for two hours, Joe. And the only thing we know, 187 00:10:46,040 --> 00:10:48,480 Speaker 3: Alena is dead. 188 00:10:49,920 --> 00:10:52,240 Speaker 2: Well we know that, and we also know that there 189 00:10:52,360 --> 00:10:59,880 Speaker 2: was evidence, certainly on her person, that this was not 190 00:11:00,080 --> 00:11:03,760 Speaker 2: a peaceful passing. It's not like you know, the angels 191 00:11:03,800 --> 00:11:07,000 Speaker 2: called all right, and she's whisked off to the great beyond. 192 00:11:07,040 --> 00:11:09,920 Speaker 2: This is something even though there's not, to the best 193 00:11:09,920 --> 00:11:11,640 Speaker 2: of our knowledge at this point in time, there's not 194 00:11:11,800 --> 00:11:18,040 Speaker 2: like some kind of some kind of indication of violence 195 00:11:18,280 --> 00:11:20,920 Speaker 2: at the scene, like busted up furniture, you know, all 196 00:11:20,920 --> 00:11:23,280 Speaker 2: those sorts of things that we commonly associated the one 197 00:11:23,280 --> 00:11:26,760 Speaker 2: thing I think, going back to comments earlier, I wonder, 198 00:11:28,160 --> 00:11:34,360 Speaker 2: you know, when she's found deceased, and you've got law 199 00:11:34,440 --> 00:11:37,560 Speaker 2: enforcement and we'll get to how she was found, that 200 00:11:37,600 --> 00:11:41,120 Speaker 2: are summoned to this location, I really wonder when they 201 00:11:41,160 --> 00:11:47,559 Speaker 2: walked in, did they smell burn? Yeah, that's one of 202 00:11:47,600 --> 00:11:50,200 Speaker 2: the things, you know, where the cases I worked, the 203 00:11:50,240 --> 00:11:53,800 Speaker 2: pathologists that I worked with, he could smell burnt almonds, 204 00:11:54,240 --> 00:11:56,440 Speaker 2: and he described it as burnt almonds. I couldn't tell 205 00:11:56,440 --> 00:11:59,280 Speaker 2: you what a burnt almonds smells like. Do you know 206 00:11:59,320 --> 00:12:02,840 Speaker 2: that only forty percent of the population allegedly can smell 207 00:12:02,880 --> 00:12:05,160 Speaker 2: the smell. I'm not one of them. I've been around 208 00:12:05,160 --> 00:12:11,120 Speaker 2: two sinide cases where I could not smell that smell, 209 00:12:11,280 --> 00:12:14,520 Speaker 2: even though the individuals right before me were dead. And 210 00:12:14,559 --> 00:12:17,880 Speaker 2: I've often wondered, even if I could smell it, could 211 00:12:17,920 --> 00:12:20,840 Speaker 2: I actually identify it? Would I be able to appreciate 212 00:12:21,600 --> 00:12:25,640 Speaker 2: what was there before me, because when the authorities entered 213 00:12:25,640 --> 00:12:30,200 Speaker 2: this room, they saw something that certainly wasn't right. They 214 00:12:30,280 --> 00:12:33,880 Speaker 2: knew that she shouldn't be dead, and at that point 215 00:12:34,880 --> 00:12:51,800 Speaker 2: they had no explanation. They are monsters. And then there 216 00:12:51,840 --> 00:12:56,200 Speaker 2: are monsters out there. There's people that will commit homicides 217 00:12:56,240 --> 00:12:59,400 Speaker 2: and they'll do it in broad daylight in front of people. Okay, 218 00:13:01,160 --> 00:13:03,240 Speaker 2: And that, in and of itself, I would argue, Dave, 219 00:13:03,520 --> 00:13:08,440 Speaker 2: is very shocking if I would think that anybody that 220 00:13:08,480 --> 00:13:14,680 Speaker 2: has borne witness to someone being assaulted, cut, beaten, or 221 00:13:14,760 --> 00:13:17,560 Speaker 2: shot in front of them is something that will remain 222 00:13:17,640 --> 00:13:20,599 Speaker 2: with them forever and ever. But Dave, just just imagine 223 00:13:20,679 --> 00:13:28,480 Speaker 2: for a second. You are absolutely dependent upon your mama. 224 00:13:29,000 --> 00:13:33,720 Speaker 2: You're at a young age. You she helps you with everything, 225 00:13:34,559 --> 00:13:39,560 Speaker 2: and you return home or you're not picked up by 226 00:13:39,600 --> 00:13:47,360 Speaker 2: her at school. There is, first off, that kind of 227 00:13:47,400 --> 00:13:50,800 Speaker 2: cascading pit of the stomach feeling that you would have 228 00:13:50,840 --> 00:13:52,840 Speaker 2: when she wouldn't pick you up. Because the first thing, 229 00:13:53,200 --> 00:13:56,000 Speaker 2: I don't know, maybe it's my own background and anxiety. 230 00:13:56,000 --> 00:13:59,360 Speaker 2: You begin to think about the worst that's happened, all right, 231 00:13:59,800 --> 00:14:03,760 Speaker 2: the worst has happened in this particular case, The school 232 00:14:04,000 --> 00:14:10,120 Speaker 2: alerted that one of this woman's younger children that called 233 00:14:10,320 --> 00:14:13,120 Speaker 2: the eldest, the older child that was in college, and said, 234 00:14:13,200 --> 00:14:14,400 Speaker 2: nobody came to pick up. 235 00:14:14,440 --> 00:14:16,040 Speaker 1: But you know how they go at school. 236 00:14:16,760 --> 00:14:20,560 Speaker 3: At elementary school, you have the list that every child 237 00:14:20,680 --> 00:14:23,240 Speaker 3: has where you have the prime because there are so 238 00:14:23,320 --> 00:14:26,960 Speaker 3: many issues with families nowadays, for that list has followed 239 00:14:27,040 --> 00:14:30,400 Speaker 3: very strictly. If you knows who is allowed to see 240 00:14:30,400 --> 00:14:32,480 Speaker 3: the child at school, who is allowed to check the 241 00:14:32,560 --> 00:14:34,600 Speaker 3: child out, who is allowed to pick up the child, 242 00:14:34,800 --> 00:14:37,680 Speaker 3: and those might not all be the same. And in 243 00:14:37,720 --> 00:14:41,880 Speaker 3: this regard, based on the fact that they called the 244 00:14:42,080 --> 00:14:45,840 Speaker 3: college age daughter first when nobody showed up to pick up, 245 00:14:45,840 --> 00:14:48,640 Speaker 3: the seven year old tells me that everybody knew there 246 00:14:48,680 --> 00:14:52,400 Speaker 3: was a situation. And when the college age girl gets 247 00:14:52,440 --> 00:14:55,840 Speaker 3: that call, she says, call the police now and have 248 00:14:55,960 --> 00:14:57,440 Speaker 3: them go and do a welfare Checkoy. 249 00:14:57,960 --> 00:15:01,120 Speaker 2: Yeah, that's that's very insightful when you think about it. 250 00:15:01,200 --> 00:15:03,040 Speaker 2: And for the very first time this is kind of 251 00:15:03,040 --> 00:15:07,760 Speaker 2: coming to mind. Why is this Why do you defer 252 00:15:07,920 --> 00:15:11,720 Speaker 2: to the college kid because they have a father. Why's 253 00:15:11,720 --> 00:15:14,760 Speaker 2: the father not being contacted? And boy, you talk about 254 00:15:14,880 --> 00:15:16,920 Speaker 2: flipping the pages on a book and being able to 255 00:15:17,320 --> 00:15:19,920 Speaker 2: dig in there and try to read between the lines 256 00:15:20,440 --> 00:15:23,320 Speaker 2: if you think about that. So you've got a dad 257 00:15:23,520 --> 00:15:26,680 Speaker 2: that's out there somewhere, but you know they're separated, Why 258 00:15:26,720 --> 00:15:29,800 Speaker 2: wouldn't he be the first on the call sheet? As 259 00:15:29,920 --> 00:15:31,800 Speaker 2: as far as like reaching out and saying there's a 260 00:15:31,800 --> 00:15:35,320 Speaker 2: problem with your child, you need to come and retrieve them, 261 00:15:35,520 --> 00:15:36,640 Speaker 2: that's not how it works. 262 00:15:36,720 --> 00:15:37,000 Speaker 1: I want. 263 00:15:37,360 --> 00:15:42,640 Speaker 2: Here's a question. You're talking about this list. First off, 264 00:15:43,240 --> 00:15:47,120 Speaker 2: was he even on the list? And if he was 265 00:15:47,160 --> 00:15:49,920 Speaker 2: on the list, what spot did he occupy on the 266 00:15:49,960 --> 00:15:51,720 Speaker 2: list as far as priority goes. 267 00:15:52,840 --> 00:15:55,560 Speaker 3: That's a big tall guessing he wasn't on the list 268 00:15:55,640 --> 00:15:58,000 Speaker 3: or he would have been the primary You know, if 269 00:15:58,040 --> 00:16:03,040 Speaker 3: you have a couple that is separated oftentimes, so there's 270 00:16:03,040 --> 00:16:05,880 Speaker 3: always going to be primary custody, and then there's going 271 00:16:05,920 --> 00:16:09,280 Speaker 3: to be the primary custody with visitation for the other parent, 272 00:16:09,520 --> 00:16:12,400 Speaker 3: you know, every other weekend kind of thing. And then 273 00:16:12,440 --> 00:16:15,240 Speaker 3: you have others that only get supervised visitation or none. 274 00:16:15,280 --> 00:16:18,520 Speaker 3: I mean, and that's that's dictated by the sheet. You 275 00:16:18,560 --> 00:16:21,640 Speaker 3: have shared custody. You're on that sheet, you're the set. 276 00:16:21,680 --> 00:16:24,000 Speaker 3: You're the first call if mom's not here, called dad. 277 00:16:24,640 --> 00:16:27,640 Speaker 3: And that's not what happened, and that's why I'm thinking that, 278 00:16:28,000 --> 00:16:31,240 Speaker 3: And based on what took place in this entire story, 279 00:16:31,520 --> 00:16:35,000 Speaker 3: there's reason to believe there was there were issues in 280 00:16:35,040 --> 00:16:39,560 Speaker 3: the household. Oftentimes, when the college age girl gets the 281 00:16:39,560 --> 00:16:41,440 Speaker 3: call and says, get the police out there now to 282 00:16:41,480 --> 00:16:44,640 Speaker 3: do a check on my mama, Oh Joe, that just 283 00:16:44,640 --> 00:16:45,520 Speaker 3: makes you want to cry. 284 00:16:47,760 --> 00:16:49,400 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, it certainly can. 285 00:16:49,920 --> 00:16:52,680 Speaker 3: Police got to the house and they found Mama, Joe, 286 00:16:53,240 --> 00:16:56,960 Speaker 3: And you asked me about this, You asked me about 287 00:16:56,960 --> 00:17:00,200 Speaker 3: the finding when we were talking about this, and when 288 00:17:00,200 --> 00:17:08,360 Speaker 3: you think about what happened, Joe, he may have left her, 289 00:17:08,680 --> 00:17:12,679 Speaker 3: his wife, the mother of his children, to be discovered 290 00:17:13,680 --> 00:17:18,440 Speaker 3: by his college age daughter, his middle school son. Anybody 291 00:17:18,440 --> 00:17:21,480 Speaker 3: could have found there, because you know, obviously she is 292 00:17:21,560 --> 00:17:26,359 Speaker 3: no longer with us. But thankfully police were called go 293 00:17:26,520 --> 00:17:30,960 Speaker 3: to a well being check on my mom. 294 00:17:31,560 --> 00:17:34,960 Speaker 2: When you know, when she is discovered that Dave and 295 00:17:35,080 --> 00:17:41,960 Speaker 2: being discovered by by the police, they saw a presentation 296 00:17:42,119 --> 00:17:50,439 Speaker 2: with her that probably gave them pause because what I'm understanding, okay, 297 00:17:50,880 --> 00:17:56,920 Speaker 2: is when they observed her deceased in her home. When 298 00:17:56,960 --> 00:18:03,040 Speaker 2: she's found Dave, She's got a series of burns that 299 00:18:03,119 --> 00:18:08,600 Speaker 2: are surrounding her face. My assumption is is that in 300 00:18:08,640 --> 00:18:11,680 Speaker 2: addition of that, knowing what I know about what agents 301 00:18:11,720 --> 00:18:15,240 Speaker 2: were applied to her, she's probably going to have a 302 00:18:15,440 --> 00:18:18,800 Speaker 2: what's referred to and this has nothing to do with cyanide, 303 00:18:19,200 --> 00:18:22,480 Speaker 2: but there's a term called cyanosis. She's going to have 304 00:18:22,480 --> 00:18:25,320 Speaker 2: a cyanotic appearance to her. And if you'll just think 305 00:18:25,359 --> 00:18:30,520 Speaker 2: about the deepest, darkest purple that you can, it almost 306 00:18:30,520 --> 00:18:38,400 Speaker 2: looks looks like eggplant. Okay, that's the color that we're 307 00:18:38,440 --> 00:18:43,280 Speaker 2: talking about. Her face perhaps would be to this color. 308 00:18:43,880 --> 00:18:46,199 Speaker 2: You know what else would be that color? Perhaps her 309 00:18:46,280 --> 00:18:49,760 Speaker 2: nail beds. You can look at the nail beds and 310 00:18:49,800 --> 00:18:53,720 Speaker 2: you can see signs of cyanosis, and this goes to 311 00:18:54,440 --> 00:19:01,440 Speaker 2: an acute respiratory issue. But you combine that and she's 312 00:19:01,600 --> 00:19:03,800 Speaker 2: we know that she's not working a chemical factory, right, 313 00:19:04,240 --> 00:19:07,520 Speaker 2: this is her domicile. So how I think from a 314 00:19:07,520 --> 00:19:11,080 Speaker 2: forensic standpoint, a death investigation standpoint, how do you explain 315 00:19:11,280 --> 00:19:14,280 Speaker 2: you've got a syanotic woman. And normally, if we saw 316 00:19:14,440 --> 00:19:20,439 Speaker 2: syinosis in an individual that had no other injuries, we 317 00:19:20,480 --> 00:19:23,760 Speaker 2: would automatically think that they may be in congestive heart 318 00:19:23,840 --> 00:19:28,280 Speaker 2: failure or congested respiratory failure because of an oxygen issue. 319 00:19:29,200 --> 00:19:32,919 Speaker 2: But you're thinking about her. She's not an elderly person 320 00:19:32,960 --> 00:19:38,080 Speaker 2: that's infirm at all. She has these burns on her mouth, 321 00:19:38,200 --> 00:19:41,240 Speaker 2: and this is a big puzzle, you know from Jump Street. 322 00:19:41,600 --> 00:19:43,280 Speaker 3: That's what I was going to ask you, because here, 323 00:19:43,400 --> 00:19:45,439 Speaker 3: let me give you an example of what they the 324 00:19:45,440 --> 00:19:48,320 Speaker 3: way it was described. Okay, yeah, you know I already 325 00:19:48,320 --> 00:19:51,000 Speaker 3: told you about how the kids went to school college 326 00:19:51,000 --> 00:19:53,560 Speaker 3: girl first, then she takes the middle school or with 327 00:19:53,640 --> 00:19:55,240 Speaker 3: the seven year old, and then she takes the seven 328 00:19:55,320 --> 00:19:57,320 Speaker 3: year old, walks her to school and comes back home. 329 00:19:57,680 --> 00:20:00,000 Speaker 3: That's where her ex husband is hiding in the house 330 00:20:00,119 --> 00:20:03,399 Speaker 3: somewhere when she arrives back at that home by herself. 331 00:20:04,400 --> 00:20:06,840 Speaker 3: The way it is described by the district attorney and 332 00:20:06,880 --> 00:20:10,400 Speaker 3: by the investigators is that Qureshi comes out of the shadows. 333 00:20:11,160 --> 00:20:16,119 Speaker 3: He suffocates her by putting a rag soaked in a 334 00:20:16,359 --> 00:20:21,600 Speaker 3: lethal cyanide mix over her mouth and knows they also 335 00:20:21,920 --> 00:20:26,919 Speaker 3: mention acid acid burns around her face. Now, when I 336 00:20:26,960 --> 00:20:31,040 Speaker 3: hear something like that, sometimes I know, just past experience 337 00:20:31,160 --> 00:20:37,240 Speaker 3: that not being in the industry of death investigation and 338 00:20:37,480 --> 00:20:41,840 Speaker 3: understanding how the body changes with different chemicals, something that 339 00:20:41,880 --> 00:20:43,920 Speaker 3: looks like a burn to me might not look like 340 00:20:43,960 --> 00:20:47,359 Speaker 3: a burn to you. So when a police officer comes 341 00:20:47,400 --> 00:20:51,240 Speaker 3: in and finds Bluss her heart, she's on the bed. 342 00:20:52,400 --> 00:20:59,080 Speaker 3: She is found obviously deceased, And I'm thinking about how 343 00:20:59,119 --> 00:21:02,280 Speaker 3: did they come to the idea that it was cyanide 344 00:21:02,400 --> 00:21:05,680 Speaker 3: and acid? How do you even come to that conclusion 345 00:21:06,400 --> 00:21:09,160 Speaker 3: that something was used as suffocator and it was cyanide. 346 00:21:09,240 --> 00:21:10,800 Speaker 3: As we mentioned at the start of the show, I 347 00:21:10,800 --> 00:21:13,240 Speaker 3: thought cyanide was something that came in a pill. You 348 00:21:13,359 --> 00:21:14,680 Speaker 3: bid it, boom, you're dead. 349 00:21:17,280 --> 00:21:20,560 Speaker 2: No. No, it can be liquefied, it's powder form. You know, 350 00:21:20,600 --> 00:21:23,800 Speaker 2: there's a number of different different statuses that it can 351 00:21:23,800 --> 00:21:28,359 Speaker 2: be in, and it doesn't take very very much effort 352 00:21:28,520 --> 00:21:35,600 Speaker 2: in order to to to acquire it. I think there's 353 00:21:35,760 --> 00:21:38,359 Speaker 2: a number of ways. First off is pretty tightly I was. 354 00:21:38,320 --> 00:21:39,960 Speaker 3: Going to ask you, that's nothing. You can just go 355 00:21:40,040 --> 00:21:41,439 Speaker 3: down to Walmart and pick up a bottle. 356 00:21:41,520 --> 00:21:46,040 Speaker 2: Right now, this is something that's that's very tightly controlled, 357 00:21:46,040 --> 00:21:49,639 Speaker 2: and I really wonder, you know, most purchasers of the 358 00:21:49,680 --> 00:21:52,280 Speaker 2: substance have to have some type of comment or connection 359 00:21:52,320 --> 00:21:56,840 Speaker 2: with a specific industry where it's being utilized. For instance, 360 00:21:56,920 --> 00:22:02,679 Speaker 2: like in the metallurgical world, it's used later. Uh yeah, 361 00:22:02,720 --> 00:22:06,600 Speaker 2: And there's a couple of other things obviously in uh 362 00:22:07,080 --> 00:22:08,720 Speaker 2: agribusiness and choose there. 363 00:22:08,920 --> 00:22:10,879 Speaker 3: I'm so paranoid a lot of times on these I 364 00:22:10,920 --> 00:22:14,560 Speaker 3: will research an item. You know, I didn't research sinide 365 00:22:15,800 --> 00:22:18,280 Speaker 3: unless I was I mean other than under a tree. 366 00:22:18,359 --> 00:22:21,960 Speaker 3: On this particular episode, I did not go, Yeah, where 367 00:22:22,000 --> 00:22:24,280 Speaker 3: can I find siinide? Which I normally would Where could 368 00:22:24,280 --> 00:22:27,520 Speaker 3: I purchase X? I didn't do that on cyanide, Joe. 369 00:22:28,720 --> 00:22:33,080 Speaker 2: Yeah, no, it would be Uh, it's not it's not 370 00:22:33,080 --> 00:22:37,159 Speaker 2: not a good good look. Somebody's going to do is 371 00:22:37,160 --> 00:22:39,360 Speaker 2: going to do your history here, and you know it's 372 00:22:39,400 --> 00:22:41,920 Speaker 2: really weird. Uh. You know, you can get it from 373 00:22:41,920 --> 00:22:47,320 Speaker 2: a variety of chemical chemical houses that that produce these 374 00:22:47,359 --> 00:22:50,439 Speaker 2: sorts of things out there that service these industries. The 375 00:22:50,480 --> 00:22:52,719 Speaker 2: big question is how do you get your your hands 376 00:22:52,760 --> 00:22:59,000 Speaker 2: on it? Now? Exposure to sinid itself can burn, Okay, 377 00:22:59,200 --> 00:23:01,640 Speaker 2: it can leave a skin lesion. But Dave, what they're 378 00:23:01,680 --> 00:23:06,960 Speaker 2: describing here sounds more acidic to me. Can I give 379 00:23:07,000 --> 00:23:09,120 Speaker 2: you a brief description of what an acid burns? 380 00:23:09,119 --> 00:23:11,160 Speaker 1: Please do? Because I'm trying to figure out how they knew. 381 00:23:12,400 --> 00:23:16,240 Speaker 2: Yeah, well, first off, there's gonna be lapatory testing involved 382 00:23:16,240 --> 00:23:18,560 Speaker 2: in this. But just as far as the external appearance, 383 00:23:18,560 --> 00:23:20,680 Speaker 2: you know, actually worked a case Dave many years ago 384 00:23:21,119 --> 00:23:24,320 Speaker 2: where a guy fell into a vat of acid and 385 00:23:24,359 --> 00:23:27,080 Speaker 2: he died. The weird thing about it is his buddy 386 00:23:27,400 --> 00:23:30,640 Speaker 2: jumped into the vat to try to save it, and 387 00:23:30,880 --> 00:23:35,560 Speaker 2: buddy died about a month later. One of the most 388 00:23:35,600 --> 00:23:39,000 Speaker 2: horrible cases that I've ever been associated with, I'd say. 389 00:23:40,040 --> 00:23:42,800 Speaker 2: But what it does is, first off, you'll get this 390 00:23:42,880 --> 00:23:46,600 Speaker 2: kind of red red appearance on the skin. It'll almost 391 00:23:46,640 --> 00:23:51,880 Speaker 2: look like a really severe third degree burn where it'll 392 00:23:51,880 --> 00:23:56,120 Speaker 2: begin to take layers off of the skin. It'll look raw. 393 00:23:57,400 --> 00:24:00,479 Speaker 2: And also one other thing that's happening. You know, acid 394 00:24:00,560 --> 00:24:06,800 Speaker 2: is actually used as a dehydrating agent as well. So 395 00:24:07,000 --> 00:24:10,600 Speaker 2: if you, for instance, if you work in a tannery, 396 00:24:11,040 --> 00:24:13,840 Speaker 2: like if you're tanning hides and you want to produce 397 00:24:14,000 --> 00:24:17,240 Speaker 2: leather like really quickly, there will be an acid application 398 00:24:17,440 --> 00:24:20,480 Speaker 2: that you used in order to take all of the 399 00:24:20,520 --> 00:24:23,720 Speaker 2: water you know, out out of out of out of 400 00:24:23,720 --> 00:24:28,399 Speaker 2: a sample, for instance, and the skin. Interestingly enough, the 401 00:24:28,480 --> 00:24:33,880 Speaker 2: skin will take on after a period of time. Let 402 00:24:33,880 --> 00:24:36,800 Speaker 2: me let me kind of back up. Human humans when 403 00:24:36,840 --> 00:24:40,840 Speaker 2: we die, we actually do desiccate. Okay, So descate means 404 00:24:40,840 --> 00:24:44,040 Speaker 2: to dehydrate, to kind of dry up. It's part of 405 00:24:44,200 --> 00:24:48,120 Speaker 2: like if you have a natural mumification process, Like if 406 00:24:48,119 --> 00:24:50,920 Speaker 2: you look at the mummies that they've recovered down on 407 00:24:51,160 --> 00:24:56,080 Speaker 2: like uh those uh, those high elevation areas down in 408 00:24:56,160 --> 00:24:59,280 Speaker 2: Peru where the bodies are perfectly preserved. Us in natural mumification, 409 00:24:59,320 --> 00:25:02,640 Speaker 2: will the water all extracted from the bodies? Okay, well, 410 00:25:03,480 --> 00:25:06,919 Speaker 2: acid speeds that up, but there's an initial burning that 411 00:25:07,000 --> 00:25:13,840 Speaker 2: takes place. Now, if it were to present externally, not 412 00:25:13,880 --> 00:25:16,560 Speaker 2: only would the skin appear red depend upon how long 413 00:25:16,800 --> 00:25:18,760 Speaker 2: the body had been down, Dave, did you know that 414 00:25:18,760 --> 00:25:22,359 Speaker 2: that skin will begin in the specific contact areas, it'll 415 00:25:22,359 --> 00:25:26,000 Speaker 2: start to turn brown. It'll turn brown and it will 416 00:25:26,000 --> 00:25:30,600 Speaker 2: look almost like tanned leather. Okay, Now, it doesn't sound 417 00:25:30,680 --> 00:25:33,920 Speaker 2: like she'd been down long enough for that, because they 418 00:25:34,000 --> 00:25:37,959 Speaker 2: were talking about burns around her mouth. But here's the 419 00:25:38,000 --> 00:25:42,920 Speaker 2: real thing that they discovered when they got her into 420 00:25:42,960 --> 00:25:46,719 Speaker 2: the autopsy suite. And this is mind blowing for folks. 421 00:25:49,000 --> 00:25:52,200 Speaker 2: When they began to examine her mouth, which is something 422 00:25:52,240 --> 00:25:55,720 Speaker 2: that we do. Most people don't realize it. But did 423 00:25:55,760 --> 00:25:59,199 Speaker 2: you know it autopsy, we actually remove the tongue. So 424 00:25:59,600 --> 00:26:01,639 Speaker 2: we'll go up through the bottom of the floor of 425 00:26:01,640 --> 00:26:05,080 Speaker 2: the mouth and we will cut out the soft connected 426 00:26:05,160 --> 00:26:08,440 Speaker 2: tissue along the jaw or within the enner. John, take 427 00:26:08,440 --> 00:26:10,320 Speaker 2: out the soft palate and of course the tongue is 428 00:26:10,359 --> 00:26:12,879 Speaker 2: attached to that and you have to you want us to, 429 00:26:13,440 --> 00:26:16,359 Speaker 2: and we will begin to strip down, taking not only 430 00:26:16,440 --> 00:26:19,320 Speaker 2: the tongue but also the organs of the neck and 431 00:26:19,400 --> 00:26:22,680 Speaker 2: also the esophagus. Why is that important, Well, it's important 432 00:26:22,720 --> 00:26:25,919 Speaker 2: specifically because of cases like this. As we dissect down. 433 00:26:26,040 --> 00:26:27,520 Speaker 2: First off, we're going to look at the tongue in 434 00:26:27,520 --> 00:26:32,040 Speaker 2: the interior of the mouth. If she has gotten exposed 435 00:26:33,119 --> 00:26:37,720 Speaker 2: on her soft moist mucoid surfaces in her mouth, Dave, 436 00:26:37,720 --> 00:26:40,840 Speaker 2: there's gonna be burns there and they will be vicious, 437 00:26:41,200 --> 00:26:42,919 Speaker 2: and she would here's the other thing, she would have 438 00:26:42,920 --> 00:26:46,600 Speaker 2: been aware of it. She would have felt this pain. Also, 439 00:26:47,760 --> 00:26:51,600 Speaker 2: if it is airsolized in any way, you're going to 440 00:26:51,640 --> 00:26:56,399 Speaker 2: see burns down her trichia. You'll see them all through 441 00:26:56,440 --> 00:26:59,920 Speaker 2: her airway because of that soft lining that's on there, 442 00:27:00,040 --> 00:27:02,879 Speaker 2: and you'll see the lining will be highly irritated, will 443 00:27:02,920 --> 00:27:07,200 Speaker 2: be read and inflamed and dependent and let's just say, 444 00:27:07,200 --> 00:27:09,119 Speaker 2: and there are cases out there where people have actually 445 00:27:11,000 --> 00:27:14,679 Speaker 2: ingested acid by directly pouring it down their throat. I've 446 00:27:14,800 --> 00:27:17,000 Speaker 2: not had. I don't think I've had one of those cases. 447 00:27:17,000 --> 00:27:19,199 Speaker 2: I've had people that have taken drain cleaner, and it 448 00:27:19,240 --> 00:27:22,000 Speaker 2: has much of the same the same effect, this kind 449 00:27:22,000 --> 00:27:25,400 Speaker 2: of caustic reaction that you have. But this is this 450 00:27:25,480 --> 00:27:28,720 Speaker 2: is unusual because Dave, what they're saying as a result 451 00:27:29,400 --> 00:27:34,840 Speaker 2: of what they discovered is that it's not necessarily that 452 00:27:34,960 --> 00:27:39,800 Speaker 2: she drank something. It's that someone held her in place 453 00:27:41,040 --> 00:27:47,440 Speaker 2: and essentially introduced this substance or compound into her system 454 00:27:47,640 --> 00:28:04,879 Speaker 2: via a saturated rag. Got to tell you, Dave, I 455 00:28:04,920 --> 00:28:07,199 Speaker 2: was talking about them in ninjel Cock Seemi a case earlier. 456 00:28:07,240 --> 00:28:08,840 Speaker 2: You know, I wanted to finish that, I tell you. 457 00:28:09,080 --> 00:28:10,760 Speaker 2: Did you know that even though doctor told me to 458 00:28:10,800 --> 00:28:14,639 Speaker 2: be careful, guess what my idiot self did. I stuck 459 00:28:14,680 --> 00:28:18,520 Speaker 2: myself with it. I went right through my glove and 460 00:28:18,560 --> 00:28:19,080 Speaker 2: I was trying to. 461 00:28:19,040 --> 00:28:20,520 Speaker 1: Be really, really good. That's why you did it. 462 00:28:20,640 --> 00:28:22,560 Speaker 2: And I wound up, Yeah, I wound up. They sent 463 00:28:22,680 --> 00:28:24,080 Speaker 2: me in the hospital. I wound up seeing the hospital 464 00:28:24,080 --> 00:28:25,480 Speaker 2: for twenty four hours. I won't see if the sin 465 00:28:25,560 --> 00:28:28,439 Speaker 2: was going to wow, And I was terrified, you know, 466 00:28:29,240 --> 00:28:30,960 Speaker 2: just laying there, you're kind of waiting, you know, you're 467 00:28:30,960 --> 00:28:32,160 Speaker 2: waiting to see if you're gonna have a fever. 468 00:28:32,240 --> 00:28:34,720 Speaker 1: That says, oh my god. 469 00:28:34,320 --> 00:28:37,760 Speaker 2: And careless, careless, careless on my part. But you know, 470 00:28:37,840 --> 00:28:41,360 Speaker 2: with this, I one of the things that's very scary 471 00:28:41,400 --> 00:28:44,720 Speaker 2: about this is people don't think that death investigators are 472 00:28:44,760 --> 00:28:50,000 Speaker 2: in danger when you enter into an environment, you know, 473 00:28:50,480 --> 00:28:53,000 Speaker 2: like like this. And you know, earlier this week, we 474 00:28:53,080 --> 00:28:57,080 Speaker 2: talked about the grave robber up in Pennsylvania, and one 475 00:28:57,080 --> 00:28:59,600 Speaker 2: of the problems that arose that is going to arise 476 00:28:59,640 --> 00:29:03,000 Speaker 2: in that case in particular, is the fact that they 477 00:29:03,080 --> 00:29:05,560 Speaker 2: used heavy metals back when they in balmb bodies. And 478 00:29:05,600 --> 00:29:10,160 Speaker 2: that house that that guy had those bodies in is toxic. 479 00:29:10,640 --> 00:29:13,120 Speaker 2: It's it's filthy with all of this stuff. So the 480 00:29:13,160 --> 00:29:17,000 Speaker 2: investigators that went down there would have potentially been exposed 481 00:29:17,040 --> 00:29:19,880 Speaker 2: to heavy metals down there. This is something else. If 482 00:29:20,080 --> 00:29:23,400 Speaker 2: the investigators, the police that initially arrived on seeing they're 483 00:29:23,440 --> 00:29:26,000 Speaker 2: not just around what we believe right now, Dave, I 484 00:29:26,000 --> 00:29:28,240 Speaker 2: think this is correct. They're saying that it was sulfuric 485 00:29:28,320 --> 00:29:33,480 Speaker 2: acid that was combined with cyanide application. I'm worried about 486 00:29:33,520 --> 00:29:35,840 Speaker 2: the investigators that were out there and did they have 487 00:29:35,960 --> 00:29:40,080 Speaker 2: any kind of exposure to the cyanide, had it had 488 00:29:40,080 --> 00:29:43,600 Speaker 2: it become airsolized in any way so that they could 489 00:29:43,640 --> 00:29:45,800 Speaker 2: have breathed it in. I'm hoping that that is not 490 00:29:45,880 --> 00:29:48,080 Speaker 2: the case, you know, because you know, just think, just 491 00:29:48,120 --> 00:29:50,800 Speaker 2: think passively. They've just for one second, you're standing there 492 00:29:51,600 --> 00:29:55,240 Speaker 2: and you don't necessarily perceive that there is a problem. 493 00:29:55,280 --> 00:29:57,160 Speaker 2: That's why I wonder if there was a smell of 494 00:29:57,160 --> 00:30:00,320 Speaker 2: burnt almonds. You're standing there and you're looking at body 495 00:30:00,360 --> 00:30:03,000 Speaker 2: and you're trying to figure it out, and they've got 496 00:30:03,800 --> 00:30:07,360 Speaker 2: they've got burns on their face on the soft tissue, 497 00:30:07,400 --> 00:30:09,320 Speaker 2: and you're thinking, huh, I wonder what causes this. You're 498 00:30:09,320 --> 00:30:13,160 Speaker 2: getting closer and closer to the body, and I'm worried 499 00:30:13,200 --> 00:30:15,400 Speaker 2: that there could be some remnant there that they could 500 00:30:15,440 --> 00:30:18,640 Speaker 2: have taken on, like these investigators kind of inhaled around 501 00:30:18,840 --> 00:30:21,880 Speaker 2: around this space. Then when you get the body to 502 00:30:22,000 --> 00:30:26,920 Speaker 2: the morgue, you're also wondering, well, if they ingested cyanide, 503 00:30:26,960 --> 00:30:29,280 Speaker 2: what's going to happen when I put the col steel 504 00:30:29,320 --> 00:30:32,160 Speaker 2: to this body and I open up the body. Now, 505 00:30:32,360 --> 00:30:34,960 Speaker 2: is there going to be a rush of this this 506 00:30:35,160 --> 00:30:37,640 Speaker 2: coming out of the body? Are we in dangers? Our 507 00:30:37,680 --> 00:30:40,040 Speaker 2: staff in danger? Most people don't think about that when 508 00:30:40,080 --> 00:30:43,400 Speaker 2: it comes to death investigation, but Dave, there's there's actually 509 00:30:43,440 --> 00:30:46,760 Speaker 2: danger lurking around every corner, at every scene and with 510 00:30:46,920 --> 00:30:47,480 Speaker 2: every case. 511 00:30:47,960 --> 00:30:53,040 Speaker 3: This was coming about the story the Cyanide, I wondered, Okay, 512 00:30:53,800 --> 00:30:57,920 Speaker 3: what are we going to find out? Because reading what 513 00:30:58,040 --> 00:31:01,160 Speaker 3: the DA said and what the investor gators are talking about, 514 00:31:01,920 --> 00:31:06,320 Speaker 3: I can't imagine Because Korshi, the husband hero i Seef 515 00:31:06,400 --> 00:31:10,240 Speaker 3: Koreshi is an out of work software engineer. Now, if 516 00:31:10,280 --> 00:31:14,520 Speaker 3: he's bringing cyanide and something else that he can dip 517 00:31:14,520 --> 00:31:18,960 Speaker 3: a rag into, I'm thinking what else did he spill it? 518 00:31:19,000 --> 00:31:20,960 Speaker 3: Is it somewhere else? Is there a wet rag over 519 00:31:21,000 --> 00:31:22,360 Speaker 3: here that's waiting to kill the other? 520 00:31:22,440 --> 00:31:22,640 Speaker 1: You know? 521 00:31:23,200 --> 00:31:25,000 Speaker 3: All those things were going through my mind as I 522 00:31:25,040 --> 00:31:27,000 Speaker 3: was reading this. But hey, you know what the Paul 523 00:31:27,040 --> 00:31:31,360 Speaker 3: Harvey the rest of the story, This guy Koreshi actually 524 00:31:32,040 --> 00:31:32,960 Speaker 3: did a dry run. 525 00:31:33,800 --> 00:31:36,960 Speaker 1: Did you know that he actually fanned it out so far? 526 00:31:37,080 --> 00:31:40,160 Speaker 3: Joe that they have because now you have pointed this 527 00:31:40,200 --> 00:31:43,440 Speaker 3: out to me many times on multiple shows, between our 528 00:31:43,480 --> 00:31:47,680 Speaker 3: cell phones and ring doorbell cameras and videos everywhere, you're 529 00:31:47,720 --> 00:31:49,800 Speaker 3: going to get caught. You know you're going to be 530 00:31:49,840 --> 00:31:52,840 Speaker 3: found out. And in this case, as they researched it, 531 00:31:52,920 --> 00:31:56,240 Speaker 3: they found out that Koreshi was in the house. Okay, 532 00:31:56,360 --> 00:31:59,280 Speaker 3: They saw him on video going into the home while 533 00:31:59,760 --> 00:32:02,160 Speaker 3: his wife had left the house with the seven year old. 534 00:32:02,680 --> 00:32:04,640 Speaker 3: He comes back and he stays in the house until 535 00:32:04,840 --> 00:32:08,160 Speaker 3: they see him going in. They see her going in, 536 00:32:08,520 --> 00:32:11,760 Speaker 3: his wife going into the house just around nine o'clock 537 00:32:11,800 --> 00:32:14,200 Speaker 3: and she never is seen alive again. She never comes 538 00:32:14,240 --> 00:32:16,400 Speaker 3: back out. He comes out of the house at ten fifty. 539 00:32:16,640 --> 00:32:19,960 Speaker 3: He's there nearly two hours with her alone. And when 540 00:32:20,000 --> 00:32:22,920 Speaker 3: he leaves the house, he's got this Duffel bag that 541 00:32:22,960 --> 00:32:25,520 Speaker 3: he went in there with. He walks down the street 542 00:32:25,720 --> 00:32:28,240 Speaker 3: to a scooter that is tied to a telephone pole 543 00:32:28,880 --> 00:32:32,320 Speaker 3: and he gets on and rides off towards his home 544 00:32:32,360 --> 00:32:38,200 Speaker 3: in bell Rows. So when police are investigating, looking at 545 00:32:38,200 --> 00:32:41,960 Speaker 3: the cameras along the way, they're able to track him 546 00:32:42,160 --> 00:32:44,560 Speaker 3: Joe from the time he got to the house at 547 00:32:44,600 --> 00:32:47,840 Speaker 3: the time. They had this down in no time, and 548 00:32:47,920 --> 00:32:49,800 Speaker 3: they were able to go back and look at history 549 00:32:49,840 --> 00:32:52,720 Speaker 3: and find out that a couple weeks earlier before this happened, 550 00:32:53,000 --> 00:32:55,840 Speaker 3: he did a dry run through where he actually came. 551 00:32:55,880 --> 00:32:58,600 Speaker 3: He parked the electric bike in the same area, locked 552 00:32:58,600 --> 00:33:01,520 Speaker 3: it up, walked to the house in that case before 553 00:33:01,560 --> 00:33:04,640 Speaker 3: in his little run, his warm up, his practice round. 554 00:33:04,880 --> 00:33:07,600 Speaker 3: He walks around the house and then goes back to 555 00:33:07,640 --> 00:33:09,920 Speaker 3: the bike, gets on it, and rides home. He knew 556 00:33:09,960 --> 00:33:12,040 Speaker 3: how long it took to get from point A to 557 00:33:12,080 --> 00:33:14,720 Speaker 3: point B, how long he had inside, and what he 558 00:33:14,720 --> 00:33:16,920 Speaker 3: could do is he knew everything he could do it. 559 00:33:17,120 --> 00:33:20,320 Speaker 2: Holy smokes, you talk about a premeditative. 560 00:33:19,480 --> 00:33:22,000 Speaker 1: Event and it's all on camera. 561 00:33:23,120 --> 00:33:26,720 Speaker 2: Yeah, you know what absolutely baffles my mind. I want 562 00:33:26,720 --> 00:33:29,959 Speaker 2: to know what was in that Duffel bag because and 563 00:33:30,200 --> 00:33:32,640 Speaker 2: obviously obviously the agent would be in there. But Dave, 564 00:33:32,680 --> 00:33:36,960 Speaker 2: how do you Okay, this is coming from a place 565 00:33:37,000 --> 00:33:42,440 Speaker 2: of like I just I've got to know if you're 566 00:33:42,480 --> 00:33:44,440 Speaker 2: going to be the perpetrator in this and this is 567 00:33:44,480 --> 00:33:50,200 Speaker 2: the weapon that you're essentially going to wield, Okay, how 568 00:33:50,200 --> 00:33:53,080 Speaker 2: do you guarantee your own personal safety? Did he did 569 00:33:53,120 --> 00:33:57,760 Speaker 2: he have a mask on? Did he have what kind 570 00:33:57,760 --> 00:34:00,400 Speaker 2: of protective clothing did he have on? You know, did 571 00:34:00,480 --> 00:34:04,840 Speaker 2: he have rubber gloves on? Where his arms covered, was 572 00:34:04,880 --> 00:34:08,640 Speaker 2: his face covered? You know, what did he do? Because 573 00:34:08,680 --> 00:34:11,320 Speaker 2: this thing is slashing, it's got to be slashing around. 574 00:34:11,360 --> 00:34:13,560 Speaker 2: I mean, I guess he could pre prepare the rags 575 00:34:14,200 --> 00:34:17,160 Speaker 2: or a rag, place it into a plastic bag of 576 00:34:17,200 --> 00:34:20,720 Speaker 2: some kind, have it contained. And then when the moment, 577 00:34:21,040 --> 00:34:23,080 Speaker 2: maybe he didn't have the agent with him in a 578 00:34:23,080 --> 00:34:26,040 Speaker 2: liquid form, maybe it was already poured up onto an applicator. 579 00:34:26,600 --> 00:34:29,960 Speaker 2: And then when he gets her into this position, allegedly 580 00:34:31,239 --> 00:34:33,080 Speaker 2: he holds her down. He's in there with her for 581 00:34:33,160 --> 00:34:35,759 Speaker 2: two hours. I want to know if there's any other 582 00:34:35,880 --> 00:34:37,920 Speaker 2: kind of insults to her body. I want to know 583 00:34:38,000 --> 00:34:40,600 Speaker 2: if she had some kind of strike to the head, 584 00:34:41,560 --> 00:34:43,560 Speaker 2: had he attempted to choke her out, were there any 585 00:34:43,640 --> 00:34:46,799 Speaker 2: kind of was there any evidence of restraint on her? Dave, 586 00:34:46,840 --> 00:34:48,960 Speaker 2: he had literally two hours to play with her in 587 00:34:48,960 --> 00:34:51,120 Speaker 2: that house, if he chose to, At what point in 588 00:34:51,120 --> 00:34:54,759 Speaker 2: time did he present to her in this environment? And 589 00:34:54,920 --> 00:34:58,080 Speaker 2: we're talking about from what we're understanding? Correct me if 590 00:34:58,080 --> 00:35:02,920 Speaker 2: I'm wrong, man, that this is this separation is rather contentious, 591 00:35:03,040 --> 00:35:07,080 Speaker 2: isn't it. You know, And not to say that most aren't, 592 00:35:07,120 --> 00:35:09,520 Speaker 2: but you know there's something you've got contentious then you 593 00:35:09,560 --> 00:35:14,239 Speaker 2: have contentious you know, And I'm wondering did he show up, 594 00:35:14,480 --> 00:35:19,520 Speaker 2: you know, with intent to torture her by threatening her, 595 00:35:19,840 --> 00:35:22,239 Speaker 2: or did he say you can change your mind right 596 00:35:22,280 --> 00:35:25,320 Speaker 2: now and she refuses to change her mind about moving 597 00:35:25,320 --> 00:35:27,640 Speaker 2: forward or was he just dead said? It sounds like 598 00:35:27,680 --> 00:35:30,520 Speaker 2: with all the premeditative factors here, he's dead set on 599 00:35:30,560 --> 00:35:30,960 Speaker 2: doing this. 600 00:35:31,000 --> 00:35:35,160 Speaker 1: Day based on the practice round. You know. 601 00:35:36,040 --> 00:35:38,560 Speaker 3: It wasn't something he thought of in his lonely hours 602 00:35:38,719 --> 00:35:40,600 Speaker 3: of the best way to get back at her, you know, 603 00:35:40,680 --> 00:35:42,319 Speaker 3: and I'm going to do this. People do that all 604 00:35:42,360 --> 00:35:45,160 Speaker 3: the time. They think about it, but he went much 605 00:35:45,239 --> 00:35:47,600 Speaker 3: further than just thinking about it. He thought about it, 606 00:35:47,640 --> 00:35:50,360 Speaker 3: he planned it, then he did a walk through to 607 00:35:50,400 --> 00:35:52,120 Speaker 3: make sure that he could be accomplished in the time 608 00:35:52,120 --> 00:35:54,640 Speaker 3: period he needed it to be, and then he did it. 609 00:35:54,719 --> 00:35:57,839 Speaker 3: He carried it out. So yeah, I don't know what 610 00:35:57,960 --> 00:36:00,600 Speaker 3: he did during that time. And I did under Joe 611 00:36:00,640 --> 00:36:02,520 Speaker 3: the same thing you did about what was in the bag? 612 00:36:02,560 --> 00:36:05,239 Speaker 3: Was there some mask? Did he prepare it? Did he 613 00:36:05,400 --> 00:36:09,399 Speaker 3: did he protect himself from the from getting it on him? 614 00:36:09,440 --> 00:36:12,880 Speaker 3: I mean, what what form did he use on this rag? 615 00:36:12,920 --> 00:36:14,600 Speaker 3: Because they make it sound like it was a wet 616 00:36:14,680 --> 00:36:17,480 Speaker 3: rag put over her mouth and nose held against it, 617 00:36:17,520 --> 00:36:21,520 Speaker 3: you know, until she died. And again I don't know 618 00:36:21,560 --> 00:36:24,160 Speaker 3: how long that would take or what went into it, 619 00:36:24,880 --> 00:36:27,160 Speaker 3: but he would have had to have been prepared correct, 620 00:36:27,360 --> 00:36:27,800 Speaker 3: he couldn't. 621 00:36:27,840 --> 00:36:28,560 Speaker 1: He had to have a. 622 00:36:28,520 --> 00:36:34,160 Speaker 2: Mask, was yeah, and was sulfuric acid, I think, because 623 00:36:35,960 --> 00:36:37,640 Speaker 2: synod would be sufficient to the time. 624 00:36:37,719 --> 00:36:40,720 Speaker 1: I bet he tortured with the That's what I'm. 625 00:36:40,560 --> 00:36:43,160 Speaker 2: Thinking too, bro, I mean, why else are you going 626 00:36:43,239 --> 00:36:45,600 Speaker 2: to have to use an agent like sulphuric acid? And 627 00:36:45,840 --> 00:36:47,719 Speaker 2: maybe all of this is good, And look, this guy 628 00:36:47,760 --> 00:36:50,160 Speaker 2: has just been chorte. He hasn't been convined, you know. 629 00:36:50,280 --> 00:36:52,239 Speaker 3: I meant to mention that when we started, because we 630 00:36:52,320 --> 00:36:55,279 Speaker 3: usually do adjudicated stories and this is one that's just 631 00:36:55,320 --> 00:36:58,480 Speaker 3: now happening. And I apologize, But it was such a 632 00:36:58,600 --> 00:37:01,240 Speaker 3: case where you've got a rat soaked in a lethal 633 00:37:01,360 --> 00:37:04,799 Speaker 3: cyanide mix that I had never heard of it before. 634 00:37:04,840 --> 00:37:07,080 Speaker 3: I didn't even know it was possible, you know, a 635 00:37:07,120 --> 00:37:11,279 Speaker 3: big on a breaking bad they made rising, you know, 636 00:37:11,360 --> 00:37:14,360 Speaker 3: in the meth lab one time, you know, And I 637 00:37:14,640 --> 00:37:16,319 Speaker 3: didn't know if there's something you could make at home 638 00:37:16,360 --> 00:37:18,120 Speaker 3: in your garage, or if you had to buy it 639 00:37:18,160 --> 00:37:21,120 Speaker 3: I didn't know, and it just there's just too much 640 00:37:21,280 --> 00:37:22,640 Speaker 3: thought that went into this. 641 00:37:23,120 --> 00:37:23,520 Speaker 1: Too much. 642 00:37:23,880 --> 00:37:26,440 Speaker 2: Well, I claim that you can use raw bitter almonds 643 00:37:26,480 --> 00:37:29,960 Speaker 2: and create it, and I don't know. Is that something 644 00:37:30,040 --> 00:37:32,479 Speaker 2: that has been attempted on his part. I have no idea. 645 00:37:32,560 --> 00:37:36,040 Speaker 2: I do know this that these children are now without 646 00:37:36,040 --> 00:37:42,799 Speaker 2: a mama, and this father who sired these children, you know, 647 00:37:42,920 --> 00:37:46,200 Speaker 2: is now cooling his heels in a Nassau County jail. 648 00:37:46,560 --> 00:37:51,000 Speaker 2: I know that this is an absolute horrific way to die. 649 00:37:51,360 --> 00:37:54,800 Speaker 2: No one deserves to die this way. It's it smacks 650 00:37:54,840 --> 00:37:59,000 Speaker 2: to me as though you know that there are elements 651 00:37:59,040 --> 00:38:02,400 Speaker 2: of torture. I know that you know from my reading 652 00:38:02,760 --> 00:38:07,240 Speaker 2: now that he was wearing black latex gloves. But black 653 00:38:07,320 --> 00:38:10,600 Speaker 2: latex gloves is not going to prevent you from inhaling something. 654 00:38:10,680 --> 00:38:13,320 Speaker 2: I wonder if there was anything else that he used, 655 00:38:13,360 --> 00:38:16,360 Speaker 2: because we know that there was preparation, according to the police, 656 00:38:16,400 --> 00:38:20,279 Speaker 2: by virtue of them tracking him and watching him on 657 00:38:20,360 --> 00:38:24,320 Speaker 2: surveillance video. There's going to be more to come. And 658 00:38:24,440 --> 00:38:25,799 Speaker 2: let me tell you one of the things to watch 659 00:38:25,800 --> 00:38:28,839 Speaker 2: out for in this case. And if you love true 660 00:38:28,840 --> 00:38:32,279 Speaker 2: crime and you love forensics, when this thing makes it 661 00:38:32,320 --> 00:38:34,880 Speaker 2: the case unless this guy makes it to trial, unless 662 00:38:34,880 --> 00:38:37,840 Speaker 2: this guy is offered up a plea deal and he accepts. 663 00:38:38,600 --> 00:38:41,000 Speaker 2: One of the interesting things is is that not only 664 00:38:41,080 --> 00:38:43,000 Speaker 2: are you going to see a forensic pathologist get on 665 00:38:43,000 --> 00:38:44,920 Speaker 2: the stand and testify in this case, you're going to 666 00:38:44,960 --> 00:38:50,319 Speaker 2: see probably a forensic toxicologist that specializes particularly in these 667 00:38:50,360 --> 00:38:52,840 Speaker 2: types of poisons. There's going to be a lot of 668 00:38:53,600 --> 00:38:56,719 Speaker 2: lot made over tissue samples because you will be able 669 00:38:56,800 --> 00:39:00,279 Speaker 2: to microscopically see what this woman went through, the pain 670 00:39:00,320 --> 00:39:02,719 Speaker 2: that was inflicted upon her, and the effects of both 671 00:39:02,760 --> 00:39:07,160 Speaker 2: cinide and sulfuric acid, which is an interesting combination to 672 00:39:07,200 --> 00:39:08,960 Speaker 2: say the least. There's going to be a lot to 673 00:39:09,040 --> 00:39:14,520 Speaker 2: unpack here scientifically, but for now, let's wait and see 674 00:39:14,640 --> 00:39:17,080 Speaker 2: what else develops. Because I got to tell you, friends, 675 00:39:17,239 --> 00:39:20,040 Speaker 2: this is certainly one for the books, something I didn't 676 00:39:20,080 --> 00:39:22,319 Speaker 2: think i'd be talking about this week, but I'm glad 677 00:39:22,360 --> 00:39:25,960 Speaker 2: we were able to get it out to you. I'm 678 00:39:26,040 --> 00:39:29,920 Speaker 2: Josep Scott Morgan, and this is Bodybacks.