1 00:00:05,920 --> 00:00:16,960 Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Greece cult Mom that should ring 2 00:00:16,960 --> 00:00:20,960 Speaker 1: a bell? Laurie Valo and I think her fourth husband, 3 00:00:21,640 --> 00:00:28,520 Speaker 1: the prophet Chad Daybell, the doomster. Remember his wife died, 4 00:00:28,640 --> 00:00:32,760 Speaker 1: Oh what a cowinkie dink in her sleep after he 5 00:00:33,440 --> 00:00:38,519 Speaker 1: predicted her death. Now both of them must be clairvoyant, 6 00:00:39,000 --> 00:00:41,880 Speaker 1: because a couple of weeks before Tammy day Bell died 7 00:00:42,000 --> 00:00:45,920 Speaker 1: in her sleep, lying beside Chad day Bell caught my 8 00:00:46,080 --> 00:00:49,880 Speaker 1: Laurie Valo, who's sleeping with day Belle, decided she would 9 00:00:50,000 --> 00:00:55,520 Speaker 1: order a beach b e ac, a beach wedding dress 10 00:00:55,920 --> 00:01:03,240 Speaker 1: and a ring before Tammy day Belle died. And guess what. 11 00:01:03,600 --> 00:01:07,600 Speaker 1: A couple of weeks later, after Tammy was dead and buried, 12 00:01:09,600 --> 00:01:14,000 Speaker 1: she called mom. Laurie Valleo marries Chad day Belle in 13 00:01:14,360 --> 00:01:18,120 Speaker 1: the Scout motto be prepared and boy wise. She but 14 00:01:19,280 --> 00:01:26,320 Speaker 1: more concerning the deaths and the dismemberment of her own children. 15 00:01:26,880 --> 00:01:32,279 Speaker 1: JJ entirely we're waiting for trial, but in the last 16 00:01:32,280 --> 00:01:38,080 Speaker 1: hours a stunning move by the state. I mean, see Grace, 17 00:01:38,240 --> 00:01:40,800 Speaker 1: this is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us 18 00:01:40,840 --> 00:01:45,200 Speaker 1: here at Fox Nation and Serious X one eleven. What 19 00:01:45,360 --> 00:01:49,480 Speaker 1: could be more stunning than we already know the remains 20 00:01:49,480 --> 00:01:55,480 Speaker 1: of these children, one dismembered, burned, buried in a pet 21 00:01:55,600 --> 00:02:01,640 Speaker 1: cemetery out in back of a farmhouse. The otherly hermetically sealed, 22 00:02:02,080 --> 00:02:06,280 Speaker 1: still wearing his pj's that he had on when he 23 00:02:06,360 --> 00:02:11,920 Speaker 1: was murdered. Take a listen right now to our cut 24 00:02:11,960 --> 00:02:16,239 Speaker 1: eighty seven our friend Nate eight ace Idahoones a motion 25 00:02:16,280 --> 00:02:19,280 Speaker 1: that has been filed by the prosecution in the Chat 26 00:02:19,360 --> 00:02:22,280 Speaker 1: and Laurie day Bel cases. This motion was filed in 27 00:02:22,320 --> 00:02:26,680 Speaker 1: both cases and prosecutors are asking that DNA testing be 28 00:02:26,840 --> 00:02:29,399 Speaker 1: performed on a few things that were found at Chad 29 00:02:29,480 --> 00:02:33,960 Speaker 1: day Bel's property. A shovel, a pickaxe, a DNA testing 30 00:02:34,040 --> 00:02:38,000 Speaker 1: under JJ's fingernails, tape, the duct tape that was surrounding 31 00:02:38,080 --> 00:02:40,280 Speaker 1: him testing on that, and I believe one or two 32 00:02:40,320 --> 00:02:42,120 Speaker 1: other things I can't recall at the top of my head, 33 00:02:42,160 --> 00:02:45,080 Speaker 1: but they're what they're asking is they want the State 34 00:02:45,240 --> 00:02:48,800 Speaker 1: lab or someone a DNA expert to do consumptive DNA 35 00:02:48,880 --> 00:02:52,200 Speaker 1: testing on that. What that means is that when they 36 00:02:52,240 --> 00:02:54,840 Speaker 1: go in and do the test, they test all the 37 00:02:54,919 --> 00:02:58,480 Speaker 1: DNA at once, so that after it's done, there's no 38 00:02:58,520 --> 00:03:01,240 Speaker 1: more DNA to test, So basically you kind of have 39 00:03:01,320 --> 00:03:06,240 Speaker 1: one shot at it, and that's the reason why, most 40 00:03:06,240 --> 00:03:09,480 Speaker 1: likely the prosecution has waited this long to do it. 41 00:03:09,600 --> 00:03:11,640 Speaker 1: I don't know if that's a really good reason for 42 00:03:11,800 --> 00:03:16,440 Speaker 1: waiting that long to do it. But before we rush 43 00:03:16,520 --> 00:03:21,400 Speaker 1: into a technical discussion of DNA, DAX and ribo niclak acid, 44 00:03:22,040 --> 00:03:24,600 Speaker 1: let me take that in. Let me take that in. 45 00:03:24,760 --> 00:03:27,760 Speaker 1: What Nate Eaton just reported. If you don't know who 46 00:03:27,880 --> 00:03:30,440 Speaker 1: Nate Eating is, you got to be living under a 47 00:03:30,600 --> 00:03:35,040 Speaker 1: rot in a cave Nate eating. If you'll recall calt Mom, 48 00:03:35,080 --> 00:03:41,000 Speaker 1: Laurie Valo immediately goes to Hawaii, Mary Schad Day Bell 49 00:03:41,800 --> 00:03:45,640 Speaker 1: and then everybody realizes is wow, the children are missing. 50 00:03:46,040 --> 00:03:50,520 Speaker 1: They're not where she said they were. Eaton flies over 51 00:03:50,680 --> 00:03:54,640 Speaker 1: to Hawaii, and every time Laurie Value comes out of 52 00:03:54,640 --> 00:03:59,000 Speaker 1: the plush condo, she's staring with her new husband. You 53 00:03:59,080 --> 00:04:02,200 Speaker 1: see his hand in the picture running along with life 54 00:04:02,320 --> 00:04:05,119 Speaker 1: or going hey, hey, hey, hey, where are your children yet? 55 00:04:05,120 --> 00:04:07,640 Speaker 1: Any idea where JJ is? Wrist? Tyewey, what's happening? Did 56 00:04:07,640 --> 00:04:11,120 Speaker 1: you get married? What's going on? His hand became famous 57 00:04:11,200 --> 00:04:14,520 Speaker 1: before he was but this is him talking and he says, 58 00:04:15,600 --> 00:04:19,760 Speaker 1: this is my point DNA. What does that mean? Blood, 59 00:04:20,880 --> 00:04:27,200 Speaker 1: human tissue, Maybe it's brain matter, maybe it's muscle. DNA 60 00:04:27,800 --> 00:04:35,000 Speaker 1: on a shovel, a pickaxe under the little boy JJ, 61 00:04:35,760 --> 00:04:42,760 Speaker 1: seven years old, under his fingernails on tape, on the 62 00:04:42,880 --> 00:04:45,080 Speaker 1: duct tape that had been wrapped around him like an 63 00:04:45,080 --> 00:04:50,200 Speaker 1: Egyptian mummy. Think about what they're looking for. They're looking 64 00:04:50,920 --> 00:04:57,000 Speaker 1: for these children, JJ Entilely's blood, their muscle, their soft tissue, 65 00:04:57,880 --> 00:05:03,800 Speaker 1: they're fat, their skin, their hair on a pickaxe on 66 00:05:03,920 --> 00:05:08,960 Speaker 1: a shovel. Sometimes there are no words to describe the 67 00:05:09,080 --> 00:05:14,160 Speaker 1: evil in our world, and the only thing we can 68 00:05:14,200 --> 00:05:17,120 Speaker 1: do is fight it. Just fight. It is joining me 69 00:05:17,240 --> 00:05:18,640 Speaker 1: right now in All Star Palem, But I want to 70 00:05:18,680 --> 00:05:21,960 Speaker 1: start with Nate Eaton joining us. He's the news director 71 00:05:22,000 --> 00:05:24,680 Speaker 1: at east News dot com on Twitter, you can find 72 00:05:24,720 --> 00:05:30,279 Speaker 1: them at Nate News Now. Nate Eaton, explain what you're saying, 73 00:05:30,400 --> 00:05:33,880 Speaker 1: because I believe there's a way around this. You're saying 74 00:05:33,880 --> 00:05:36,479 Speaker 1: that if they do these tests, they'll use up the 75 00:05:36,600 --> 00:05:40,560 Speaker 1: DNA well on these specific items. So the items we're 76 00:05:40,600 --> 00:05:44,599 Speaker 1: talking about, the hairs on the duct tape. WHOA wait 77 00:05:44,640 --> 00:05:47,600 Speaker 1: a minute, hold on, because I don't like what you 78 00:05:47,680 --> 00:05:51,400 Speaker 1: just said. When we were quoting you. You said other 79 00:05:51,440 --> 00:05:55,480 Speaker 1: items I can't recall. Okay, you're the news director. You're 80 00:05:55,520 --> 00:05:59,280 Speaker 1: supposed to tell us all the items. Okay, so let's 81 00:05:59,279 --> 00:06:02,880 Speaker 1: start at the get go. Hair on duct tape. That 82 00:06:02,920 --> 00:06:07,440 Speaker 1: makes perfect sense. If duct tape was wrapped around his head. 83 00:06:07,480 --> 00:06:12,320 Speaker 1: It reminds me of Kelley. You know, Top Mom's little girl, Casey. 84 00:06:12,320 --> 00:06:14,960 Speaker 1: Anthony's a little girl that had duct tape across her mouth. 85 00:06:16,440 --> 00:06:18,520 Speaker 1: So they're looking for hair on the duct tape that 86 00:06:18,600 --> 00:06:21,680 Speaker 1: was wrapped around JJ. Okay, go ahead. I'm making a 87 00:06:21,760 --> 00:06:24,000 Speaker 1: chart here, so I'm writing as quickly as I can't. 88 00:06:24,000 --> 00:06:27,360 Speaker 1: Go ahead, Nate, okay, and then rich detail with your 89 00:06:27,440 --> 00:06:32,240 Speaker 1: fingerprints on the tape associated with j J body. I'm 90 00:06:32,240 --> 00:06:34,600 Speaker 1: really surprised I haven't already done that. Hold on, So 91 00:06:34,640 --> 00:06:38,520 Speaker 1: basically fingerprints and if you don't get a whole print, 92 00:06:38,960 --> 00:06:41,240 Speaker 1: and we'll go to Joe, Scott and Morgan just a 93 00:06:41,240 --> 00:06:44,240 Speaker 1: moment on this, you can get a partial print, Nate, 94 00:06:44,279 --> 00:06:47,080 Speaker 1: have you ever really looked at a blow up of 95 00:06:47,120 --> 00:06:51,239 Speaker 1: a known print. Let's just say Chad day Bell's print 96 00:06:51,320 --> 00:06:53,840 Speaker 1: a known print. You take his fingerprint when he's booked in. 97 00:06:54,120 --> 00:06:59,039 Speaker 1: That's your known print compared to the other print, the 98 00:06:59,120 --> 00:07:02,599 Speaker 1: latent print, which is found on a window, or driving 99 00:07:02,960 --> 00:07:05,320 Speaker 1: steering wheel or a door, but in this case on 100 00:07:05,400 --> 00:07:10,400 Speaker 1: duct tape. If it's amazing, you look for ten twenty 101 00:07:10,480 --> 00:07:15,640 Speaker 1: or more similarities in the swirls, and every person has 102 00:07:15,680 --> 00:07:19,200 Speaker 1: their own set of swirls. Nobody has one like it. 103 00:07:19,600 --> 00:07:21,280 Speaker 1: You know what I like to do. I like to 104 00:07:21,320 --> 00:07:24,680 Speaker 1: make a postcard, a black and white postcard of the 105 00:07:24,840 --> 00:07:28,600 Speaker 1: known print and a latent print is picked up off 106 00:07:28,600 --> 00:07:32,280 Speaker 1: the duct tape. Blow up pictures side by side on 107 00:07:32,320 --> 00:07:36,360 Speaker 1: a glossy postcard, and circle in red similarities and hand 108 00:07:36,400 --> 00:07:41,360 Speaker 1: those out to the garars. Kind of a keepsake. Awesome, Okay, 109 00:07:41,440 --> 00:07:45,320 Speaker 1: back to you ridge detail on the duct tape. Also, 110 00:07:45,680 --> 00:07:48,200 Speaker 1: you mentioned the pickaxe and the shovel. They're looking for 111 00:07:48,440 --> 00:07:52,960 Speaker 1: small dark on the handles, and these were tools that 112 00:07:53,000 --> 00:07:56,600 Speaker 1: were in Chad day Bell's barn right there, right near 113 00:07:56,640 --> 00:07:59,880 Speaker 1: where the kids were found. Small dark spots. You mean, 114 00:08:00,080 --> 00:08:03,040 Speaker 1: hasn't already been tested from law? Well, the prosecution tried 115 00:08:03,080 --> 00:08:05,760 Speaker 1: to test all of these things back in early twenty 116 00:08:05,840 --> 00:08:10,520 Speaker 1: twenty one, but the defense attorneys immediately objected. They didn't 117 00:08:10,560 --> 00:08:14,320 Speaker 1: want it done. They didn't want to consumptive DNA testing 118 00:08:14,360 --> 00:08:16,520 Speaker 1: done means they were worried that it would use it 119 00:08:16,560 --> 00:08:19,640 Speaker 1: all up. And then Laurie became incompetent, So everything kind 120 00:08:19,640 --> 00:08:22,320 Speaker 1: of got put on hold. Why you just pought my 121 00:08:22,360 --> 00:08:25,720 Speaker 1: earpiece out when you said that Laurie became incompetent. Why 122 00:08:25,760 --> 00:08:27,760 Speaker 1: do you say things like that? Nate eight. And she 123 00:08:27,800 --> 00:08:32,000 Speaker 1: did not become incompetent. She has been later declared competent. 124 00:08:32,160 --> 00:08:35,880 Speaker 1: What was that anyway? Was she acting crazy? Well, according 125 00:08:35,960 --> 00:08:39,600 Speaker 1: to the court, yes she was, and so she went 126 00:08:39,640 --> 00:08:43,080 Speaker 1: to a state hospital for about ten months, was declared 127 00:08:43,120 --> 00:08:46,319 Speaker 1: competent earlier this year, and so now now we're seeing 128 00:08:46,360 --> 00:08:49,319 Speaker 1: a lot of progress in the case. Things are moving forward. Way, 129 00:08:49,640 --> 00:08:55,920 Speaker 1: were her crazy wacko religious beliefs? Her quote incompetence was 130 00:08:56,000 --> 00:08:58,280 Speaker 1: that where they were getting that she was incompetent, they 131 00:08:58,280 --> 00:09:00,800 Speaker 1: had all of that is steel, but could assume that 132 00:09:00,840 --> 00:09:04,440 Speaker 1: the religious delusions as they were calling them, were part 133 00:09:04,480 --> 00:09:09,200 Speaker 1: of her incompetency. She did go to the state mental 134 00:09:09,240 --> 00:09:11,760 Speaker 1: hospital for ten months where the inmate where she was 135 00:09:11,800 --> 00:09:14,920 Speaker 1: able to wear normal clothes, she wasn't in handcuffs, she 136 00:09:15,000 --> 00:09:17,080 Speaker 1: wasn't in a cell, she was able to eat well. 137 00:09:17,679 --> 00:09:20,760 Speaker 1: They did some psychological tests on her. She was able 138 00:09:20,840 --> 00:09:23,400 Speaker 1: to do her hair and makeup. I didn't know I 139 00:09:23,440 --> 00:09:25,360 Speaker 1: was gonna have to bring a shrink this quickly. But 140 00:09:25,760 --> 00:09:29,040 Speaker 1: doctor Angela Arnold psychiatrists were now psychiatrists, joining us out 141 00:09:29,040 --> 00:09:33,240 Speaker 1: of the Atlanta jurisdiction. Angela Angela Arnold, MD, dot com 142 00:09:33,320 --> 00:09:37,880 Speaker 1: dit or Angie, Please, if your mental illness is cured 143 00:09:38,320 --> 00:09:42,280 Speaker 1: by some new clothes and makeup, you're not mentally ill. 144 00:09:42,600 --> 00:09:44,640 Speaker 1: Please just have a shopping day at them all and 145 00:09:44,679 --> 00:09:48,920 Speaker 1: you're fine. Just one. It's not incompetent. That's a lot, Jackie. 146 00:09:49,040 --> 00:09:54,520 Speaker 1: You have to pull up best of their wacky, crazy beliefs. 147 00:09:54,960 --> 00:10:00,960 Speaker 1: Remember all of that. But bizarro, what about that, doctor Angie? 148 00:10:01,000 --> 00:10:03,240 Speaker 1: In a nutshell? I gotta get back to the DNA. 149 00:10:03,400 --> 00:10:08,839 Speaker 1: This woman is full of cluster b diagnoses, okay, but 150 00:10:08,920 --> 00:10:12,839 Speaker 1: that they do not make you incompetent. All right. She 151 00:10:12,960 --> 00:10:16,880 Speaker 1: has lots of personality disorders, but none of those make 152 00:10:16,880 --> 00:10:20,800 Speaker 1: her incompetent. I think her biggest issue is she's very manipulative. 153 00:10:20,880 --> 00:10:23,160 Speaker 1: You know what, doctor Angie, I've just got to say. 154 00:10:23,160 --> 00:10:26,959 Speaker 1: Wendy Patrick, California prosecutor, author of Red Flags, hosted today 155 00:10:26,960 --> 00:10:33,400 Speaker 1: with doctor Wendy KCBQ Wendy Patrick PhD dot com. That's 156 00:10:33,559 --> 00:10:38,440 Speaker 1: bs bottom line, everything that makes her a horrible person. 157 00:10:39,080 --> 00:10:45,360 Speaker 1: Doctor Angie says as a personality disorder, she's cruel, she's heartless, 158 00:10:45,400 --> 00:10:48,880 Speaker 1: she's self centered. She cares more about landing the next 159 00:10:49,040 --> 00:10:53,640 Speaker 1: husband than she does about her children. Doctor Angie can 160 00:10:53,679 --> 00:10:55,880 Speaker 1: put perfect on the pig all she wants to, but 161 00:10:56,000 --> 00:10:58,079 Speaker 1: this just makes her, in my mind, the devil's meaning. 162 00:10:58,480 --> 00:11:03,000 Speaker 1: She is Satan's mistress. There you go, That's what goes 163 00:11:03,040 --> 00:11:06,520 Speaker 1: on the postcard. After this trial will handles out to 164 00:11:06,559 --> 00:11:09,400 Speaker 1: the jurors. But that conclusion will be arrived at by 165 00:11:09,480 --> 00:11:12,120 Speaker 1: looking at her conduct, by looking at her intentional conduct, 166 00:11:12,200 --> 00:11:16,080 Speaker 1: the sophistication of it, the deliberation, everything that goes into 167 00:11:16,160 --> 00:11:19,359 Speaker 1: proving something was knowing and intentional and not the product 168 00:11:19,760 --> 00:11:23,480 Speaker 1: of incompetence or insanity legally or anything else. And that's 169 00:11:23,559 --> 00:11:25,240 Speaker 1: no doubt the way the trial is going to be 170 00:11:25,360 --> 00:11:28,640 Speaker 1: conducted now that whatever that was about. You know, you 171 00:11:28,679 --> 00:11:30,800 Speaker 1: and I've had tons of cases where people have been 172 00:11:31,120 --> 00:11:34,520 Speaker 1: by a court declared unfit to stand trial, and then, 173 00:11:34,559 --> 00:11:37,880 Speaker 1: of course very quickly sometimes there they are back in action. 174 00:11:38,600 --> 00:11:40,520 Speaker 1: One of the things I suppose will develop in this 175 00:11:40,559 --> 00:11:44,880 Speaker 1: particular case is why the investigation stopped when she was 176 00:11:44,920 --> 00:11:47,800 Speaker 1: declared incompetent. Why didn't it simply continue in the interim. 177 00:11:48,000 --> 00:11:50,240 Speaker 1: But you're right, you know, actions bee louder than words, 178 00:12:03,320 --> 00:12:10,120 Speaker 1: time stories with Nancy Grace, Nate eat nothing. Maybe the 179 00:12:10,200 --> 00:12:12,920 Speaker 1: delay wasn't just for her to finally get deemed competent, 180 00:12:13,000 --> 00:12:15,160 Speaker 1: but because we were in the throes of COVID during 181 00:12:15,200 --> 00:12:17,720 Speaker 1: a lot of this, and nobody was rushing into the 182 00:12:17,720 --> 00:12:20,440 Speaker 1: crime lab to look at samples. But hey, you just 183 00:12:20,480 --> 00:12:22,719 Speaker 1: says something that really hit home. You hit a home 184 00:12:22,800 --> 00:12:28,120 Speaker 1: run again, Wendy Patrick. Do you remember Nate eating and 185 00:12:28,360 --> 00:12:36,880 Speaker 1: one cult mom's court appearances? Didn't she create lip gloss 186 00:12:38,400 --> 00:12:42,560 Speaker 1: out of something behind bars and had her hair and 187 00:12:42,720 --> 00:12:47,640 Speaker 1: mermaid curls and had her toe nails polished while she's 188 00:12:47,840 --> 00:12:51,920 Speaker 1: in court talking about her murdered and dismembered and bird 189 00:12:52,040 --> 00:12:57,040 Speaker 1: charred children. I mean that it reminded me of Jodi Aris, 190 00:12:57,880 --> 00:12:59,640 Speaker 1: who would always have her hair and make it, who 191 00:12:59,640 --> 00:13:02,480 Speaker 1: also shot a bird at me in court, always be 192 00:13:02,559 --> 00:13:06,079 Speaker 1: completely perfect with all our makeup and hair and blah blah, 193 00:13:06,120 --> 00:13:08,360 Speaker 1: and then go in court to look at pictures off 194 00:13:08,360 --> 00:13:11,880 Speaker 1: her lover. They started rotting in the shower where she 195 00:13:12,000 --> 00:13:15,960 Speaker 1: left him. I mean, reality check, didn't she make her 196 00:13:15,960 --> 00:13:18,680 Speaker 1: own lip gloss? Yeah, with the help of a Jolly rancher. 197 00:13:18,800 --> 00:13:21,240 Speaker 1: It was a Jolly rancher. Okay, I'd like to talk 198 00:13:21,280 --> 00:13:24,000 Speaker 1: about Dax Surivo. Ni Lake asked her, with you, doctor 199 00:13:24,480 --> 00:13:27,080 Speaker 1: cheryla point, but hold on, I need to hear about 200 00:13:27,080 --> 00:13:31,680 Speaker 1: the jolly rancher lip gloss. What what did you just say, 201 00:13:31,840 --> 00:13:35,559 Speaker 1: because I would totally totally argue that an opening statement. 202 00:13:35,720 --> 00:13:38,680 Speaker 1: She's more concerned about her lip gloss than her dead children. 203 00:13:39,000 --> 00:13:42,439 Speaker 1: Please tell me the joy Rancher punchline. This was her 204 00:13:42,679 --> 00:13:45,600 Speaker 1: very first court appearance in Idaho after they flew her 205 00:13:45,640 --> 00:13:50,240 Speaker 1: back from Hawaii, her Hawaiian honeymoon. Okay, she walks in 206 00:13:50,280 --> 00:13:53,920 Speaker 1: the courtroom with pink handcuffs on, and she's got bright 207 00:13:54,120 --> 00:13:56,959 Speaker 1: pink red lipstick that we later learned the jail inmates 208 00:13:57,000 --> 00:13:59,280 Speaker 1: will take Jolly Rancher as they get from the commissary, 209 00:13:59,360 --> 00:14:01,720 Speaker 1: mix it with water and then they'll apply that to 210 00:14:01,760 --> 00:14:04,400 Speaker 1: their lips. And if Yeah, her hair was curl that 211 00:14:04,480 --> 00:14:06,920 Speaker 1: had the mermaid curls. And she walked in there and 212 00:14:07,080 --> 00:14:09,719 Speaker 1: sat down and acted like she didn't have a care 213 00:14:09,760 --> 00:14:13,760 Speaker 1: in the world. Okay, doctor Angie, go on, put perfume 214 00:14:13,800 --> 00:14:20,600 Speaker 1: on that pig. What's her personality disorder? Narcissism, histrionic. I 215 00:14:20,640 --> 00:14:22,880 Speaker 1: know all of your terms, doctor Angie. I don't know 216 00:14:22,920 --> 00:14:25,280 Speaker 1: what they mean, but I know them well. Nancy. I 217 00:14:25,320 --> 00:14:28,960 Speaker 1: think that people. I think that all of your viewers 218 00:14:29,520 --> 00:14:35,160 Speaker 1: want want to know if Laurie Valo, what is driving her? 219 00:14:35,400 --> 00:14:38,200 Speaker 1: Why is she the way she is? And so that's 220 00:14:38,200 --> 00:14:41,440 Speaker 1: why I bring up these different personality disorders that I 221 00:14:41,480 --> 00:14:46,040 Speaker 1: believe that she exhibits. Okay, well wait, you're not asking 222 00:14:46,440 --> 00:14:49,720 Speaker 1: why is she the way she is? Don't tell me. 223 00:14:49,800 --> 00:14:52,240 Speaker 1: You're going to go all the way back. My mommy 224 00:14:52,440 --> 00:14:57,040 Speaker 1: spanked me when I killed the dog. My daddy ignored me. 225 00:14:57,200 --> 00:15:01,120 Speaker 1: Blah blah blah. You know what. No, don't care, do 226 00:15:01,240 --> 00:15:04,680 Speaker 1: not care. All I care about it's why these children 227 00:15:04,720 --> 00:15:07,080 Speaker 1: are dead. But I will give you a tiny peek 228 00:15:07,520 --> 00:15:10,040 Speaker 1: and too. There's got to be pots and pants beating 229 00:15:10,080 --> 00:15:12,360 Speaker 1: against each other in her head. I want you to 230 00:15:12,440 --> 00:15:18,560 Speaker 1: listen to Campower, her friend from our Arizona Family TV religion. 231 00:15:18,760 --> 00:15:21,560 Speaker 1: This is on their religion. In October twenty eighteen, Laurie 232 00:15:21,600 --> 00:15:24,440 Speaker 1: was speaking at some sort of religious gathering. She was 233 00:15:24,480 --> 00:15:27,720 Speaker 1: telling the group of people there that about her firsthand 234 00:15:27,760 --> 00:15:30,840 Speaker 1: experiences with God and with spirits, but she started off 235 00:15:30,880 --> 00:15:33,320 Speaker 1: by telling them about the issues she had with her 236 00:15:33,320 --> 00:15:36,520 Speaker 1: ex husband, Joseph Ryan, and how she wanted to kill him. 237 00:15:37,320 --> 00:15:39,800 Speaker 1: I'm sorry saying that I am a personal witness of 238 00:15:39,920 --> 00:15:43,480 Speaker 1: the resurrected Jesus Christ, I am his advocate, and I 239 00:15:43,480 --> 00:15:46,840 Speaker 1: am his friend. Laurie Vallo has dubbed herself a devout 240 00:15:46,880 --> 00:15:49,640 Speaker 1: member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter day Saints. 241 00:15:50,000 --> 00:15:53,160 Speaker 1: In court documents and police reports, she talks about how 242 00:15:53,240 --> 00:15:55,680 Speaker 1: she's put on this earth to gather people for the 243 00:15:55,800 --> 00:15:59,440 Speaker 1: second Coming of Christ. The time is now, the Lord 244 00:15:59,560 --> 00:16:02,440 Speaker 1: is gather they're his people. He is calling people to 245 00:16:02,480 --> 00:16:05,120 Speaker 1: one hundred and forty four one thousand. They're already being called. 246 00:16:05,720 --> 00:16:09,080 Speaker 1: They're already being sent on their missions. And I guess 247 00:16:09,120 --> 00:16:12,680 Speaker 1: her mission was to murder her children. Now, the Mormons 248 00:16:12,960 --> 00:16:17,200 Speaker 1: took great pains to disassociate themselves from this fringe group 249 00:16:17,760 --> 00:16:20,480 Speaker 1: that Laurie Valo was in, and that was Kim Powell 250 00:16:20,560 --> 00:16:25,920 Speaker 1: speaking from Arizona Family TV Nate Eaton. The religious beliefs 251 00:16:25,920 --> 00:16:31,200 Speaker 1: were even more bizarre. She insists that her Basically anybody 252 00:16:31,280 --> 00:16:34,800 Speaker 1: she doesn't like has been possessed by a demon. She 253 00:16:34,920 --> 00:16:40,320 Speaker 1: even has names for the demons, and they can't be repossessed, 254 00:16:40,760 --> 00:16:43,040 Speaker 1: they can't be cured, so she has to kill them. 255 00:16:43,280 --> 00:16:46,040 Speaker 1: That's part of her religion. As I recall, that's a yes, no, 256 00:16:46,240 --> 00:16:50,800 Speaker 1: Nate Eaton, Okay, I want to go now to special 257 00:16:50,840 --> 00:16:55,320 Speaker 1: guests joining us in addition to Nate, doctor Angie Wendy Patrick, 258 00:16:55,880 --> 00:16:59,640 Speaker 1: Jessicat Morgan is with US Professor Forensics, Jacksonville State University, 259 00:17:00,160 --> 00:17:03,080 Speaker 1: author of Blood Beneath My Feet on Amazon and host 260 00:17:03,120 --> 00:17:06,199 Speaker 1: of a brand new hit series on iHeart Body Bags 261 00:17:06,200 --> 00:17:11,439 Speaker 1: with Joe Scott Morgan. And to Shara La Point, genetic genealogist, 262 00:17:11,760 --> 00:17:17,000 Speaker 1: author of The Gene Hunter ge n E and founder 263 00:17:17,000 --> 00:17:21,080 Speaker 1: founder of the gene Hunter dot com. Shara, we heard 264 00:17:21,200 --> 00:17:28,520 Speaker 1: Nate Eaton describe a consumptive DNA test. Isn't it true 265 00:17:28,880 --> 00:17:32,080 Speaker 1: that there are some methods by which, when you have 266 00:17:32,200 --> 00:17:38,200 Speaker 1: a very small amount of DNA, that DNA chain can 267 00:17:38,240 --> 00:17:43,840 Speaker 1: be replicated or grown so you have a greater amount 268 00:17:43,920 --> 00:17:49,119 Speaker 1: of DNA. Yes, ma'am. With technic technology today, it's possible 269 00:17:49,160 --> 00:17:54,080 Speaker 1: to do that. It's possible to actually do full genome 270 00:17:54,200 --> 00:18:00,119 Speaker 1: sequencing and with that information we can actually use that 271 00:18:00,480 --> 00:18:06,439 Speaker 1: to replicate DNA. In this case, I believe they're looking 272 00:18:06,480 --> 00:18:10,240 Speaker 1: for DNA evidence that's going to prove who who was 273 00:18:10,280 --> 00:18:16,280 Speaker 1: there when the murderers occurred, And with all of all 274 00:18:16,280 --> 00:18:19,160 Speaker 1: of the things that they have to DNA tests, they 275 00:18:19,240 --> 00:18:23,280 Speaker 1: want to at one time test all of this. But 276 00:18:24,119 --> 00:18:26,880 Speaker 1: just like you said, I believe it's possible that there 277 00:18:27,119 --> 00:18:30,280 Speaker 1: is technology out there that you can test these items 278 00:18:30,400 --> 00:18:33,679 Speaker 1: and you don't have to use all of all of 279 00:18:33,800 --> 00:18:37,080 Speaker 1: the items at one time. And Cheryl la Point joining 280 00:18:37,119 --> 00:18:39,760 Speaker 1: me and guys, you got to really listen carefully what 281 00:18:39,840 --> 00:18:42,800 Speaker 1: she says because she'll go and to work for and 282 00:18:43,359 --> 00:18:46,520 Speaker 1: you have to really dissect each word. Joe Scott the 283 00:18:46,600 --> 00:18:51,920 Speaker 1: same way because it does sound very technical. But Chery 284 00:18:52,000 --> 00:18:53,560 Speaker 1: La Point, you and I have talked a lot about 285 00:18:53,640 --> 00:18:57,440 Speaker 1: there's a group, isn't it, Jackie Authorram Labs. There are 286 00:18:57,560 --> 00:19:03,960 Speaker 1: labs like authram that deal with degenerated DNA DNA that 287 00:19:04,040 --> 00:19:08,080 Speaker 1: has been contaminated, like been out in dirt or rain 288 00:19:08,240 --> 00:19:12,440 Speaker 1: or in bad conditions, and that is one of their specialties, 289 00:19:12,480 --> 00:19:18,280 Speaker 1: aren't their labs that specialize and extracting let me say, 290 00:19:18,359 --> 00:19:22,680 Speaker 1: criminal DNA when they're really bad circumstances, like the DNA 291 00:19:22,760 --> 00:19:25,320 Speaker 1: is really old, you find a skull that's been out 292 00:19:25,359 --> 00:19:28,200 Speaker 1: in the desert for twenty five years, or the DNA 293 00:19:28,280 --> 00:19:32,040 Speaker 1: has been underwater or in mud, or just all sorts 294 00:19:32,080 --> 00:19:35,640 Speaker 1: of concerning circumstances as it relates to getting a good 295 00:19:35,680 --> 00:19:39,880 Speaker 1: DNA sapple. There are labs that specialize in that, absolutely, Nancy. 296 00:19:40,040 --> 00:19:44,359 Speaker 1: And you know these cases are being solved, multiple cases 297 00:19:45,240 --> 00:19:49,880 Speaker 1: every week now, so you know they really I believe that, 298 00:19:50,359 --> 00:19:53,399 Speaker 1: you know, the prostitution should look at maybe going with 299 00:19:53,480 --> 00:19:57,040 Speaker 1: a private lab that can preserve some of the DNA, 300 00:19:57,240 --> 00:19:59,600 Speaker 1: maybe not use all of it in case, you know, 301 00:19:59,680 --> 00:20:04,239 Speaker 1: there's a reason that further testing is needed. You know, 302 00:20:04,800 --> 00:20:09,560 Speaker 1: we have fingernails. You know, they swabbed the fingernails bearing 303 00:20:09,600 --> 00:20:14,240 Speaker 1: an autopsy. I mean we've talked about that before. Absolutely, 304 00:20:14,760 --> 00:20:18,960 Speaker 1: you know, if this poor child thought when he was 305 00:20:19,000 --> 00:20:23,119 Speaker 1: being murdered, it's very possible that he scratched someone and 306 00:20:23,800 --> 00:20:26,800 Speaker 1: they can test back. Nate Eton, did you hear what 307 00:20:26,960 --> 00:20:31,000 Speaker 1: Sheryl all Point, our genetic genealogist and author, just said. 308 00:20:31,520 --> 00:20:35,640 Speaker 1: She said that they want to test for who Tessie's 309 00:20:35,640 --> 00:20:38,960 Speaker 1: and it's a shovel in a pickaxe, which really shouldn't 310 00:20:38,960 --> 00:20:42,960 Speaker 1: even be in the same sentence as your child that's 311 00:20:42,960 --> 00:20:47,960 Speaker 1: passed on. But for who may have tested for who 312 00:20:48,000 --> 00:20:51,000 Speaker 1: may have been there at the time of the death? 313 00:20:52,560 --> 00:20:55,800 Speaker 1: What does that mean? What exactly is the state looking for? 314 00:20:55,920 --> 00:20:58,520 Speaker 1: I would have assumed that the state was looking for 315 00:20:58,640 --> 00:21:02,640 Speaker 1: the children's DNA when they were dismembered or murdered on 316 00:21:02,640 --> 00:21:05,480 Speaker 1: that or shovel. Well, yeah, that I're gonna look for 317 00:21:05,520 --> 00:21:07,800 Speaker 1: the children's DNA, But also who was holding that shovel, 318 00:21:07,840 --> 00:21:11,399 Speaker 1: who was holding that pickaxe? Now one can assume and 319 00:21:11,480 --> 00:21:14,520 Speaker 1: the tape, and one can assume that Chad's DNA, Chad 320 00:21:14,600 --> 00:21:17,600 Speaker 1: Davel's DNA will be on that because it was his. 321 00:21:17,760 --> 00:21:20,720 Speaker 1: Then he maybe used those tools for other other things. 322 00:21:20,760 --> 00:21:24,600 Speaker 1: But will Alex Cox's DNA beyond that? Will Laurie vallows 323 00:21:24,760 --> 00:21:27,880 Speaker 1: DNA beyond that? What's interesting to me, Nancy, and all 324 00:21:27,920 --> 00:21:31,000 Speaker 1: of this and all of the public records, is that 325 00:21:31,280 --> 00:21:33,600 Speaker 1: all of the DNA they're collecting is from the remains 326 00:21:33,600 --> 00:21:37,440 Speaker 1: of JJ. They have not mentioned collecting any DNA from 327 00:21:37,480 --> 00:21:40,200 Speaker 1: Tyley's and from what we have heard is that because 328 00:21:40,280 --> 00:21:44,200 Speaker 1: there's not much left, those officers had to sift through 329 00:21:44,320 --> 00:21:48,399 Speaker 1: dirt to try to find any remain or any of 330 00:21:48,440 --> 00:21:52,320 Speaker 1: her remains, anything belonging to her. It was finally a 331 00:21:52,400 --> 00:21:55,720 Speaker 1: piece of tissue that they were able to identify her with. 332 00:21:56,480 --> 00:21:58,920 Speaker 1: So they're they're hopeful that they can get as much 333 00:21:58,960 --> 00:22:02,080 Speaker 1: as they can off of jj remains off of his 334 00:22:02,240 --> 00:22:05,280 Speaker 1: body because they don't have much to work with on Tyly. 335 00:22:05,640 --> 00:22:10,560 Speaker 1: Inter Joe Scott Morgan, Professor Forensic's Jackson State University. What 336 00:22:10,680 --> 00:22:15,280 Speaker 1: Nate Eaton said is absolutely correct, and I would like 337 00:22:15,520 --> 00:22:21,040 Speaker 1: you to explain to our listeners and viewers why we 338 00:22:21,280 --> 00:22:27,440 Speaker 1: can't get DNA regarding Tylely, the teen girl who was 339 00:22:27,640 --> 00:22:31,520 Speaker 1: just at that time starting to say no mom and 340 00:22:31,720 --> 00:22:34,600 Speaker 1: fight back with mommy and then whoops, I guess the 341 00:22:34,680 --> 00:22:37,159 Speaker 1: demon got enter and she had to be killed. Yeah, 342 00:22:37,200 --> 00:22:40,879 Speaker 1: well that yeah, yeah, and you know it's so gruesome. 343 00:22:41,000 --> 00:22:43,560 Speaker 1: What did In fact, at least it has been implied 344 00:22:43,960 --> 00:22:45,760 Speaker 1: to this point, we don't have all of the details 345 00:22:45,800 --> 00:22:48,280 Speaker 1: about Tyley, but we do know that, you know, you 346 00:22:48,320 --> 00:22:50,800 Speaker 1: were talking about the DNA sample a few months ago. 347 00:22:51,720 --> 00:22:55,000 Speaker 1: We would you refer to that as degraded. Hers is 348 00:22:55,080 --> 00:22:58,119 Speaker 1: greatly degraded to the point where it's almost non existent. 349 00:22:58,840 --> 00:23:00,920 Speaker 1: From a criminal standpoint and anything that you're going to 350 00:23:01,040 --> 00:23:04,359 Speaker 1: lift out of there as far as trace elements. So 351 00:23:04,480 --> 00:23:07,280 Speaker 1: what happened to her body? What did this child? And 352 00:23:08,000 --> 00:23:10,240 Speaker 1: post mortem? Yeah, and I think that you know, when 353 00:23:10,240 --> 00:23:13,959 Speaker 1: we begin to think about and as horrible as this is, 354 00:23:14,000 --> 00:23:18,040 Speaker 1: but when we begin to think about the aspect of dismemberment, 355 00:23:18,160 --> 00:23:23,120 Speaker 1: Nancy depended upon the amount of skeletal remain that they 356 00:23:23,160 --> 00:23:25,760 Speaker 1: found on her that we might be able to match 357 00:23:25,800 --> 00:23:28,040 Speaker 1: up tool marks, if they have some kind of instrument 358 00:23:28,080 --> 00:23:31,679 Speaker 1: that was used in order to conduct this dismemberment that 359 00:23:31,760 --> 00:23:35,280 Speaker 1: they keep it keeps coming up in the conversation. But 360 00:23:35,480 --> 00:23:38,560 Speaker 1: to a broader point when you think about JJ, and 361 00:23:38,600 --> 00:23:41,200 Speaker 1: I brought this up several times along the way, there's 362 00:23:41,280 --> 00:23:46,000 Speaker 1: this memorialization that took place with him that didn't happen 363 00:23:46,040 --> 00:23:49,320 Speaker 1: with her. It was it was just horrific with her 364 00:23:49,400 --> 00:23:52,440 Speaker 1: to the point where they completely got rid of her remains. 365 00:23:53,119 --> 00:23:57,480 Speaker 1: But with JJ, he might hold all of the answers 366 00:23:57,520 --> 00:24:00,159 Speaker 1: to this case. You know, you you mentioned hair just 367 00:24:00,200 --> 00:24:03,480 Speaker 1: a moment our Nate did, which I found quite fascinating 368 00:24:03,560 --> 00:24:05,679 Speaker 1: on the surface of this tape, not just that, but 369 00:24:05,760 --> 00:24:08,919 Speaker 1: the latent print which we would refer to on the 370 00:24:08,920 --> 00:24:11,840 Speaker 1: surface of that tape that he's the side of the tape. 371 00:24:11,880 --> 00:24:14,840 Speaker 1: That's called a plastic print, which it leaves this impression. 372 00:24:14,920 --> 00:24:17,560 Speaker 1: It's not like a print that you would commonly see 373 00:24:17,560 --> 00:24:21,080 Speaker 1: on a smooth surface, but literally it's adherent and you 374 00:24:21,119 --> 00:24:23,760 Speaker 1: can actually appreciate ridge detail and these sorts of things, 375 00:24:23,800 --> 00:24:25,760 Speaker 1: and we can classify that and that'll be tied back 376 00:24:25,800 --> 00:24:28,679 Speaker 1: to a specific person. But the hair, the hair if 377 00:24:28,920 --> 00:24:33,200 Speaker 1: that touched, say, for instance, the hair on the perpetrator's 378 00:24:33,320 --> 00:24:36,119 Speaker 1: arm and it pulled loose or on their hair on 379 00:24:36,160 --> 00:24:39,640 Speaker 1: their head. Remember, we shed hair, we shed skin. All 380 00:24:39,640 --> 00:24:42,000 Speaker 1: these things are going to be at heer about epiphilial 381 00:24:42,080 --> 00:24:45,000 Speaker 1: skin cells. I mean, by the time you take a 382 00:24:45,040 --> 00:24:47,879 Speaker 1: piece of duct tape and you rip it off and 383 00:24:47,920 --> 00:24:50,800 Speaker 1: then you wrap it around something, I've got to believe 384 00:24:50,920 --> 00:24:54,240 Speaker 1: that your epiphilial or skin cells are on that piece 385 00:24:54,240 --> 00:24:57,320 Speaker 1: of duct tape. Yeah, we we shed roughly about one 386 00:24:57,400 --> 00:24:59,720 Speaker 1: hundred thousand some people say skin cell and that's a 387 00:24:59,800 --> 00:25:02,240 Speaker 1: ru festiment. Skin sales per day. I mean, there's a 388 00:25:02,240 --> 00:25:05,400 Speaker 1: whole market built on skin loans and whatnot for dry skin. 389 00:25:05,800 --> 00:25:08,160 Speaker 1: That's just what you can see. The stuff that's invisible. 390 00:25:08,160 --> 00:25:10,120 Speaker 1: It kind of floats around again, that goes back to 391 00:25:10,119 --> 00:25:13,720 Speaker 1: touch DNA. But wouldn't it be fascinating How did you 392 00:25:13,760 --> 00:25:15,640 Speaker 1: cut the duct tape? You know a lot of people 393 00:25:15,680 --> 00:25:17,879 Speaker 1: will take duct tape and put it in their mouth 394 00:25:18,400 --> 00:25:21,679 Speaker 1: and tear it. I wonder if that's if that's an issue, 395 00:25:21,760 --> 00:25:23,720 Speaker 1: and then if that comes in contact, would say, And 396 00:25:23,760 --> 00:25:26,520 Speaker 1: it's the most passive thing that can happen in these 397 00:25:26,560 --> 00:25:30,680 Speaker 1: circumstances where you don't realize you're transferring your own DNA 398 00:25:30,840 --> 00:25:34,560 Speaker 1: to these surfaces. And for me, that's quite fascinating. The 399 00:25:35,000 --> 00:25:39,320 Speaker 1: instruments themselves, you know, that's going to be a bit 400 00:25:39,400 --> 00:25:42,520 Speaker 1: tougher to get because in the Morgue we actually do 401 00:25:42,600 --> 00:25:44,919 Speaker 1: blood cards where we'll take a drop of blood and 402 00:25:44,960 --> 00:25:47,199 Speaker 1: put it onto a card and we retain that, but 403 00:25:47,240 --> 00:25:53,240 Speaker 1: it's retained in a very environmentally secure environment. Okay, with 404 00:25:53,359 --> 00:25:56,879 Speaker 1: these these instruments, oh my gosh, those are gonna be dried. 405 00:25:57,520 --> 00:26:00,120 Speaker 1: And if it is blood, and I'm hoping that they 406 00:26:00,160 --> 00:26:03,399 Speaker 1: have established that without destroying the sample. If it is 407 00:26:03,520 --> 00:26:07,680 Speaker 1: blood and they extract that, well that's you know, did 408 00:26:07,680 --> 00:26:10,560 Speaker 1: the perpetrators hurt themselves? Had they been hurt? Did they 409 00:26:10,640 --> 00:26:13,320 Speaker 1: drip blood or is this blood that has been transferred. 410 00:26:13,320 --> 00:26:16,480 Speaker 1: I just had an idea Number one, J Scott, you 411 00:26:16,520 --> 00:26:18,280 Speaker 1: know what I'd like to see you do. I'd like 412 00:26:18,359 --> 00:26:21,360 Speaker 1: to see you do a whole issue on body bags 413 00:26:21,680 --> 00:26:26,119 Speaker 1: regarding specifically with this most recent motion by the state 414 00:26:26,920 --> 00:26:32,119 Speaker 1: and what we think they may obtain specifically forensic just 415 00:26:32,240 --> 00:26:35,080 Speaker 1: focused on the forensics and to share all the point 416 00:26:35,160 --> 00:26:38,360 Speaker 1: joining me genetic genealogist and author. We've talked about what 417 00:26:38,440 --> 00:26:42,280 Speaker 1: consumptive DNA tests are. You consume, You consume it all, 418 00:26:42,400 --> 00:26:45,840 Speaker 1: there's nothing left to test about how in many cases 419 00:26:46,720 --> 00:26:53,719 Speaker 1: contaminated DNA, even in small amounts, can be regenerated replicated. Oh, 420 00:26:53,800 --> 00:26:57,800 Speaker 1: what's a good example. What is that creature Jackie that 421 00:26:58,840 --> 00:27:02,120 Speaker 1: can grow or can do it? It's tail falls off, 422 00:27:02,160 --> 00:27:05,400 Speaker 1: it can grow another tail. A jellyfish can live forever 423 00:27:05,880 --> 00:27:08,840 Speaker 1: because it regenerates. Same thing with DNA. You take a 424 00:27:08,880 --> 00:27:11,520 Speaker 1: little and you can recreate it in the lab to 425 00:27:11,640 --> 00:27:15,359 Speaker 1: give you enough DNA to make the test. But share point. 426 00:27:16,080 --> 00:27:19,639 Speaker 1: Can we talk about epiphilial cell DNA as it relates 427 00:27:19,680 --> 00:27:23,639 Speaker 1: to this duct tape. Any chance that we could get 428 00:27:23,760 --> 00:27:30,720 Speaker 1: the killers skin cells or what about what about JJ's pajamas, 429 00:27:32,000 --> 00:27:34,960 Speaker 1: Could there be fiber or skin cells or hair on 430 00:27:35,080 --> 00:27:39,080 Speaker 1: his pajamas because he was basically hermetically sealed like a mummy. 431 00:27:40,040 --> 00:27:42,600 Speaker 1: What do you think about epiphilial cells on the duct 432 00:27:42,600 --> 00:27:47,040 Speaker 1: tape of the perp or possibly chase evidence left behind 433 00:27:47,080 --> 00:27:51,520 Speaker 1: on the pj's of JJ. You know there may be 434 00:27:52,080 --> 00:27:55,600 Speaker 1: DNA on those pjs, but just because it's on pj's 435 00:27:56,480 --> 00:28:01,040 Speaker 1: doesn't necessarily mean that that's the person who. Hey, you 436 00:28:01,080 --> 00:28:04,040 Speaker 1: know what, I'll take those odds, Cheryl a point who's 437 00:28:04,080 --> 00:28:07,480 Speaker 1: not only a genetic genial just but apparently a lawyer 438 00:28:07,520 --> 00:28:12,240 Speaker 1: as well. I'll take that. You show me, You show 439 00:28:12,320 --> 00:28:17,080 Speaker 1: me Chad day Bells, EPI filial or hair and filial 440 00:28:17,119 --> 00:28:20,960 Speaker 1: cells or hair on JJ's pj's. You put that to 441 00:28:21,080 --> 00:28:24,120 Speaker 1: a Jerry, the pj's he's wearing when he is murdered 442 00:28:24,520 --> 00:28:28,480 Speaker 1: and buried. I'll take it, and I will run with it. 443 00:28:28,680 --> 00:28:33,240 Speaker 1: I agree with you. But you know, thinking about duck Tate, Nancy, 444 00:28:33,520 --> 00:28:36,600 Speaker 1: I when I use duck Tate, of course, my husband 445 00:28:36,640 --> 00:28:41,440 Speaker 1: fixes everything with duck tape, but I cannot. I have 446 00:28:41,480 --> 00:28:44,920 Speaker 1: a hard time dealing with duck Tate by myself. It 447 00:28:44,920 --> 00:28:47,280 Speaker 1: almost takes two people. Okay, I have a hard time 448 00:28:47,320 --> 00:28:50,080 Speaker 1: relating to you. You You must have some really nice fingernails, okay, 449 00:28:50,120 --> 00:28:52,120 Speaker 1: because I can rip it off just like that, just 450 00:28:52,560 --> 00:28:56,720 Speaker 1: all the time. But you think we could get skin cells, 451 00:28:57,240 --> 00:29:00,880 Speaker 1: not just fingerprints, but skin cell off that duct tape. 452 00:29:00,960 --> 00:29:05,360 Speaker 1: Absolutely absolutely, and evidently there was hair on some of 453 00:29:05,400 --> 00:29:08,880 Speaker 1: this duct tape. And again, you know it's not so easy. 454 00:29:08,920 --> 00:29:11,920 Speaker 1: I actually had that conversation with doctor Nilman last week 455 00:29:11,960 --> 00:29:16,160 Speaker 1: about hair. Um. You know, it's it's the roots there. 456 00:29:16,200 --> 00:29:18,320 Speaker 1: Of course, you have a nucleus and it's easier to 457 00:29:18,360 --> 00:29:21,120 Speaker 1: find DNA, but if it's just a shaft of hair. 458 00:29:21,760 --> 00:29:25,920 Speaker 1: It actually, since twenty nineteen, you know, there's a technique 459 00:29:25,960 --> 00:29:29,480 Speaker 1: that can be used. That's who identify that hair. That's right. 460 00:29:29,560 --> 00:29:32,040 Speaker 1: You don't have to have a nucleus or the root 461 00:29:32,360 --> 00:29:35,720 Speaker 1: of the hair anymore. Which I know we're getting away, way, way, 462 00:29:35,720 --> 00:29:39,400 Speaker 1: way deep in forensics, but this is a huge, huge happening. 463 00:29:40,720 --> 00:29:43,720 Speaker 1: All jump in and talk regular people talk plays. I 464 00:29:43,760 --> 00:29:46,000 Speaker 1: beg you listen when we begin to think of Lori 465 00:29:46,720 --> 00:29:53,200 Speaker 1: and that her proclivity for her beauty and coloring her hair. 466 00:29:53,480 --> 00:29:57,960 Speaker 1: You know what's really fascinating about hair forensics is that, 467 00:29:58,040 --> 00:30:01,440 Speaker 1: you know, when we examine hair the mythology of it, 468 00:30:01,480 --> 00:30:05,240 Speaker 1: we can actually pick up on dies. Did you say morphology? Yeah, 469 00:30:05,280 --> 00:30:09,520 Speaker 1: there morphing, it's nature such as in again the taught 470 00:30:09,600 --> 00:30:13,160 Speaker 1: mom case hair from Kelly was found in the card trunk. 471 00:30:13,400 --> 00:30:16,000 Speaker 1: The defense tried to argue, well, maybe because it's only 472 00:30:16,080 --> 00:30:20,040 Speaker 1: mitochondrial DNA, it could be taught mom Casey Anthony's or 473 00:30:20,040 --> 00:30:23,160 Speaker 1: even her mother, Cindy Anthony's. But the reality is both 474 00:30:23,200 --> 00:30:26,160 Speaker 1: of those treated their hair, they colored their hair, whereas 475 00:30:26,240 --> 00:30:29,200 Speaker 1: Kayley did not, and the hair and the trunk was uncolored, 476 00:30:29,360 --> 00:30:32,240 Speaker 1: which means it was Kyley's hair. Is that what you're saying, Yes, 477 00:30:32,320 --> 00:30:35,600 Speaker 1: I am, and I think that'd be fascinating if that 478 00:30:35,720 --> 00:30:38,360 Speaker 1: was a hair. The Sharon jumping in, No, this is WITNYA. 479 00:30:40,280 --> 00:30:43,200 Speaker 1: I would call all of this forensic storytelling. This is 480 00:30:43,200 --> 00:30:44,760 Speaker 1: what I would darry it in front of the jury 481 00:30:44,760 --> 00:30:48,320 Speaker 1: because it's so important. We're talking about evidence providing a 482 00:30:48,440 --> 00:30:51,640 Speaker 1: narrative that the victims cannot. And then after we'd laid 483 00:30:51,680 --> 00:30:54,400 Speaker 1: it all out through all experts, like the other panelists, 484 00:30:54,600 --> 00:30:57,360 Speaker 1: we would say, the only reasonable interpretation of everything we've 485 00:30:57,360 --> 00:31:00,840 Speaker 1: heard points to guilt. So this is s fascinating and 486 00:31:01,200 --> 00:31:03,680 Speaker 1: it's not in the weeds. It's actually the type of 487 00:31:03,720 --> 00:31:06,200 Speaker 1: thing that will see blank what some of our jurors 488 00:31:06,200 --> 00:31:21,240 Speaker 1: are used to hearing our shows like BFI Time Stories 489 00:31:21,280 --> 00:31:28,280 Speaker 1: with Nancy Grace. Hey, guys, take a listen to our 490 00:31:28,360 --> 00:31:32,040 Speaker 1: cut eighty nine. This is our friend Knight at east Es. 491 00:31:32,360 --> 00:31:35,400 Speaker 1: Most likely they will want a representative from their team 492 00:31:35,480 --> 00:31:39,240 Speaker 1: in the lab when the testing is done, or excuse me, 493 00:31:39,880 --> 00:31:43,080 Speaker 1: the one a photographer with a video camera in that 494 00:31:43,160 --> 00:31:46,520 Speaker 1: lab when the test is testing is being done. That 495 00:31:46,600 --> 00:31:49,280 Speaker 1: will be up to the judge to decide how that happens. However, 496 00:31:49,440 --> 00:31:53,240 Speaker 1: with this motion that was filed today, there was a 497 00:31:53,280 --> 00:31:55,680 Speaker 1: statement filed by a lady who works at the lab 498 00:31:55,920 --> 00:31:59,080 Speaker 1: saying that they don't want a camera in there, and 499 00:31:59,160 --> 00:32:02,239 Speaker 1: they don't want any else in there. There could be 500 00:32:02,280 --> 00:32:04,640 Speaker 1: some worry that the DNA could be contaminated if you 501 00:32:04,640 --> 00:32:06,440 Speaker 1: have a camera in there, if you have somebody else 502 00:32:06,440 --> 00:32:10,280 Speaker 1: in there. So they are saying that it's best not 503 00:32:10,360 --> 00:32:13,040 Speaker 1: to at the State lab. So now it could be 504 00:32:13,040 --> 00:32:18,040 Speaker 1: moved to a private lab. No, no, no, no, Nate eaton, first, 505 00:32:18,080 --> 00:32:20,000 Speaker 1: I was going to talk to you about the irony 506 00:32:20,280 --> 00:32:24,280 Speaker 1: of the defense. Okay, So according to the State Chad Day, 507 00:32:24,360 --> 00:32:28,600 Speaker 1: Belle and Laurie Valo cult mom take part in murdering 508 00:32:28,800 --> 00:32:35,440 Speaker 1: her children. Now they're insisting that there is a camera 509 00:32:35,840 --> 00:32:40,800 Speaker 1: when the DNA on the pickaxe is being tested. That's 510 00:32:41,040 --> 00:32:44,520 Speaker 1: you know, wow, they got a nerve, right, But you 511 00:32:44,560 --> 00:32:46,240 Speaker 1: know what, I'd be mad if they didn't, and the 512 00:32:46,320 --> 00:32:49,080 Speaker 1: crime better suck it up and put a camera in there. 513 00:32:49,080 --> 00:32:51,880 Speaker 1: It can even be a robotic camera that at a 514 00:32:51,960 --> 00:32:56,200 Speaker 1: distance is not going to take the DNA all right, 515 00:32:56,680 --> 00:33:01,320 Speaker 1: that's not going to happen. So if they can't handle it, 516 00:33:01,400 --> 00:33:03,240 Speaker 1: then it needs to go to a private lab that 517 00:33:03,440 --> 00:33:05,800 Speaker 1: can handle it. I mean, Chryl a point. How could 518 00:33:05,800 --> 00:33:09,680 Speaker 1: a robotic camera in the distance tain't the DNA? Nancy. 519 00:33:09,800 --> 00:33:13,760 Speaker 1: I've been inside for instance, of Offer and Labs. This 520 00:33:13,960 --> 00:33:20,880 Speaker 1: testing is all done behind glass. You you cannot just 521 00:33:21,080 --> 00:33:24,600 Speaker 1: walk into the area where they're doing this DNA testing, 522 00:33:25,080 --> 00:33:28,320 Speaker 1: but you could stand behind the glass wall and video 523 00:33:28,600 --> 00:33:31,920 Speaker 1: what's going on. I don't know how their lab is 524 00:33:31,960 --> 00:33:36,000 Speaker 1: set up, and you know, I can kind of understand 525 00:33:36,040 --> 00:33:40,000 Speaker 1: the taining of the DNA, but honestly, there are ways 526 00:33:40,040 --> 00:33:43,480 Speaker 1: around this, you darn right, Cheryl A point. They may 527 00:33:43,480 --> 00:33:46,480 Speaker 1: need to bring you on of council to explain to 528 00:33:46,520 --> 00:33:49,160 Speaker 1: them that it can't be done. If the defense wants 529 00:33:49,160 --> 00:33:53,120 Speaker 1: a video, Fine, half a video. I don't think anybody 530 00:33:53,200 --> 00:33:59,080 Speaker 1: needs to pull a trick to prove that these children 531 00:33:59,080 --> 00:34:02,160 Speaker 1: were murdered by Daybell and Valoe in some way or 532 00:34:02,160 --> 00:34:04,280 Speaker 1: the other. Yeahs, let's bring it home to what we're 533 00:34:04,320 --> 00:34:06,560 Speaker 1: really talking about. Take a less an hour cut forty 534 00:34:06,600 --> 00:34:10,600 Speaker 1: six at Chad day Bell's preliminary hearing. You're a hearing detective, 535 00:34:10,680 --> 00:34:13,560 Speaker 1: right from a ceot on the stand. They removed some 536 00:34:13,719 --> 00:34:20,640 Speaker 1: soil and there was a Once they removed some soil, 537 00:34:20,680 --> 00:34:26,080 Speaker 1: there was a a black what I can best describe 538 00:34:26,120 --> 00:34:33,279 Speaker 1: as a black plastic bag with a round object protruding 539 00:34:33,280 --> 00:34:37,719 Speaker 1: through the dirt. Okay, what did you observe the r 540 00:34:37,800 --> 00:34:42,680 Speaker 1: team do after you saw that? They dug a little 541 00:34:42,719 --> 00:34:46,120 Speaker 1: bit more around the round object, which appeared to me 542 00:34:46,280 --> 00:34:49,920 Speaker 1: to be the crown of a head protruding through the dirt. 543 00:34:50,640 --> 00:34:53,440 Speaker 1: They used a small sharp instrument to cut through the 544 00:34:53,480 --> 00:34:58,360 Speaker 1: black plastic. There was a white plastic underneath the black plastic, 545 00:34:58,400 --> 00:35:01,680 Speaker 1: and they also used the white instrument to cut through 546 00:35:01,719 --> 00:35:04,560 Speaker 1: the white plastic. Okay, and what did you observe when 547 00:35:04,560 --> 00:35:08,680 Speaker 1: they did that? I observed what looked to be brown 548 00:35:08,760 --> 00:35:11,880 Speaker 1: human hair. Well, they'll stop there. Take listen to to 549 00:35:11,920 --> 00:35:15,160 Speaker 1: take to herma CEO and our cut forty nine. The 550 00:35:15,239 --> 00:35:21,640 Speaker 1: emmy grabbed a small sharp instrument and cut down the 551 00:35:21,680 --> 00:35:28,000 Speaker 1: middle of the black plastic. Okay, and what did you observe? 552 00:35:30,000 --> 00:35:39,000 Speaker 1: I observed a small child in red pajamas, red pajama shirt, 553 00:35:39,120 --> 00:35:45,480 Speaker 1: red pajama pants, black socks that had the words sketchers 554 00:35:45,480 --> 00:35:49,920 Speaker 1: in orange across the toes. Also observed a light and 555 00:35:50,040 --> 00:35:57,719 Speaker 1: blue blanket that had been placed on top of them. Okay, Detective, 556 00:35:57,760 --> 00:36:03,320 Speaker 1: were there when you observed what you perceived to be 557 00:36:03,360 --> 00:36:07,120 Speaker 1: a child? Where there was there anything that drew your attention? Yes? 558 00:36:09,880 --> 00:36:14,400 Speaker 1: Can describe one of you described for the court what 559 00:36:14,480 --> 00:36:18,480 Speaker 1: drew your attention the amount of duct tape that was 560 00:36:18,520 --> 00:36:23,160 Speaker 1: covering the body. That's j J. They're hearing about him 561 00:36:23,160 --> 00:36:28,360 Speaker 1: and his pajamas and his socks. But what about tiling 562 00:36:28,800 --> 00:36:32,520 Speaker 1: the tame girl? Take a listen, I cut forty eight. 563 00:36:32,920 --> 00:36:36,360 Speaker 1: Detective from a CEO. While you were in that area, 564 00:36:36,600 --> 00:36:42,320 Speaker 1: did you have a chance to further observe art excavate 565 00:36:42,600 --> 00:36:46,840 Speaker 1: that area you preferred to as the pet cemetery? Yes, okay, 566 00:36:47,160 --> 00:36:53,920 Speaker 1: what did you observe? I had been away from that area, 567 00:36:54,280 --> 00:36:56,960 Speaker 1: but when I returned to that area. They had already 568 00:36:57,040 --> 00:37:07,080 Speaker 1: dug down and located what a what would appeared to 569 00:37:07,160 --> 00:37:16,080 Speaker 1: be a mass of burnt flesh and charred bone. That's 570 00:37:16,120 --> 00:37:21,360 Speaker 1: what's left of their team girl, burnt flesh and charred bone. 571 00:37:22,840 --> 00:37:26,440 Speaker 1: According to the state they did that. Now, let me 572 00:37:26,480 --> 00:37:29,680 Speaker 1: go back to Nate eaton our star from East Idaho 573 00:37:29,719 --> 00:37:34,760 Speaker 1: News dot Com. Nate. One of the Purps is in 574 00:37:34,880 --> 00:37:38,239 Speaker 1: Fremont County Jail. One is in Madison County Jail. Is 575 00:37:38,280 --> 00:37:44,560 Speaker 1: it correct that today Laurie Valo had hot cereal with 576 00:37:44,640 --> 00:37:48,719 Speaker 1: butter and sugar. That sounds like cream of wheat or oatmeal, 577 00:37:49,560 --> 00:37:59,120 Speaker 1: baked ham, turkey ham pancake, bake with syrup, whipped margarine, 578 00:37:59,480 --> 00:38:06,680 Speaker 1: and fortified drink plus fruit. Is that right? That sounds 579 00:38:06,719 --> 00:38:09,479 Speaker 1: about right. I don't know the specific menu today, I'm 580 00:38:09,520 --> 00:38:12,839 Speaker 1: reading it. Trust me, I do trust you. What I 581 00:38:12,920 --> 00:38:15,920 Speaker 1: do know is that the jail that Laurie is in, 582 00:38:16,080 --> 00:38:19,200 Speaker 1: it has the best jail suit in the state. They 583 00:38:19,280 --> 00:38:23,759 Speaker 1: have a full service kitchen, They have a chef. They 584 00:38:23,840 --> 00:38:28,000 Speaker 1: do homemade bread, fresh fruit. You mean like Oprah. They 585 00:38:28,040 --> 00:38:30,879 Speaker 1: have a chef. I don't think it's as good as 586 00:38:30,880 --> 00:38:33,720 Speaker 1: Oprah chefs, but they do have a You have a chef, 587 00:38:33,800 --> 00:38:35,920 Speaker 1: I don't have. I don't have a chef. And I'm 588 00:38:35,960 --> 00:38:45,640 Speaker 1: hearing about Tyley who is nothing but tissue and charred bones. 589 00:38:46,800 --> 00:38:50,759 Speaker 1: And she is sitting at a table having a meal 590 00:38:50,880 --> 00:38:56,200 Speaker 1: prepared by a chef. Don't they also have fresh baked 591 00:38:56,400 --> 00:38:59,160 Speaker 1: bread every day? They do? Then the meals are so 592 00:38:59,200 --> 00:39:01,640 Speaker 1: good at this jail that the staffs often go down 593 00:39:01,640 --> 00:39:05,120 Speaker 1: and eat eat lunch. And then let's talk about a 594 00:39:05,239 --> 00:39:12,759 Speaker 1: day bell that poc fruit juice, high fiber, Ralston chicken, sausage, 595 00:39:13,640 --> 00:39:21,720 Speaker 1: biscuits with gravy, fresh fruit, sugar, substitute milk, coffee, peeb 596 00:39:21,880 --> 00:39:25,480 Speaker 1: and jake. He gets all that from breakfast? Am I hearing? 597 00:39:25,760 --> 00:39:30,239 Speaker 1: Biscuits with sausage and gravy. I had a cup of 598 00:39:30,280 --> 00:39:33,400 Speaker 1: tea with cashing milk in it, and he's got biscuits 599 00:39:34,600 --> 00:39:38,040 Speaker 1: with sausage and gravy. How does this happen? Am I 600 00:39:38,160 --> 00:39:40,719 Speaker 1: in bizarre Land? Do you know what that is? My 601 00:39:40,800 --> 00:39:43,919 Speaker 1: son was obsessed with? I guess it was Superman. Could 602 00:39:43,920 --> 00:39:46,600 Speaker 1: have been Batman who would go to another world and 603 00:39:46,640 --> 00:39:50,760 Speaker 1: fight his nemesis Bizarro, who lived in bizarro landon everything 604 00:39:50,840 --> 00:39:55,800 Speaker 1: was bass ackwards and upside down Why is he getting 605 00:39:56,320 --> 00:40:01,000 Speaker 1: chicken sausage and gravy and biscuits? What did you have? 606 00:40:02,680 --> 00:40:05,600 Speaker 1: We haven't had anything. Why is this happening? And that's 607 00:40:05,600 --> 00:40:09,840 Speaker 1: a great question, Nancy. I know that the there have 608 00:40:10,000 --> 00:40:14,279 Speaker 1: been lawsuits over the years about inmates being fed properly 609 00:40:14,480 --> 00:40:18,920 Speaker 1: nutritional standards. Woo woa, whoa wait waite what nutritional standards? 610 00:40:18,960 --> 00:40:21,760 Speaker 1: You know? Are they climbing that there's not enough vitamin 611 00:40:21,840 --> 00:40:24,800 Speaker 1: C and they shaken a biscuit? That could be a claim. 612 00:40:24,840 --> 00:40:27,040 Speaker 1: I don't know what the specifics on in the past, 613 00:40:27,080 --> 00:40:29,279 Speaker 1: but these gels have to have certain standards of what 614 00:40:29,360 --> 00:40:32,080 Speaker 1: they feed the inmates, make sure they're fed X amount 615 00:40:32,120 --> 00:40:36,480 Speaker 1: of times per day. And Laurie definitely is well taken 616 00:40:36,480 --> 00:40:38,560 Speaker 1: care of. She can have good food now, and I 617 00:40:38,600 --> 00:40:42,520 Speaker 1: have heard from reliable sources that she has complimented how 618 00:40:42,520 --> 00:40:44,799 Speaker 1: good the food is at the facility and that it's 619 00:40:44,920 --> 00:40:48,560 Speaker 1: much better there compared to the state hospital where Okay, stop, 620 00:40:48,600 --> 00:40:55,640 Speaker 1: you're actually making my head hurt. Laurie Valoe has a chef. 621 00:40:56,719 --> 00:41:01,240 Speaker 1: He makes her fresh baked bread. And I'm hearing about 622 00:41:01,320 --> 00:41:08,440 Speaker 1: the remnants of Tyley's body, charred bones and fat tissue 623 00:41:09,200 --> 00:41:14,600 Speaker 1: just buried in a pet cemetery. You know what. I 624 00:41:14,719 --> 00:41:18,000 Speaker 1: pray that Sheryl Appoint is right and that this DNA 625 00:41:18,080 --> 00:41:22,480 Speaker 1: can be replicated, regenerated so we get a positive result. 626 00:41:23,560 --> 00:41:27,480 Speaker 1: We wait as justice unfolds. Goodbye, Think