Speaker 1: Of the Law and Order franchises. SVU is considered especially watchable.
Speaker 2: We are the amateur detectives who kind of investigate the
Speaker 2: vicious felonies. These episodes are based on.
Speaker 3: These are our stories, Done done, Hello and welcome to
Speaker 3: That's Messed Up n SVU podcast.
Speaker 4: I'm Kara Klank and I'm Liza Traeger.
Speaker 2: We talked SVU crimes, celeb guests. It's really a podcast
Speaker 2: that has it all New York's hottest club if you
Speaker 2: know you know, Okay, so Karra, I guess the biggest
Speaker 2: thing in our lives is we did see the Backstreet Boys.
Speaker 4: Oh my god, we did.
Speaker 2: Truly one of the best nights of my life. I
Speaker 2: can't stop smiling about it. And they really just played
Speaker 2: hit after hit and then sneak in a new one
Speaker 2: from their new hit album DNA, and then mentioned DNA.
Speaker 2: They brought their kids on stage, and like, I think
Speaker 2: for me, you know, we don't get like I felt
Speaker 2: so surprised at the encore because they did I want
Speaker 2: it that way before the encore. Then they come back
Speaker 2: and they're doing a new song I don't really know,
Speaker 2: and I'm like, what the fuck are they gonna end
Speaker 2: on what the fuck what is going on? And then
Speaker 2: to surprise us with larger than life and a full
Speaker 2: fireworks confetti show at the Hollywood Bowl, Like, are you
Speaker 2: fucking kidding?
Speaker 1: It was really, it was really an experience. I had
Speaker 1: so much fun. And a shout out to our listener
Speaker 1: and friend Sofia who took us.
Speaker 4: Thank you Sophia. And it was her.
Speaker 1: Birthday, Happy birthday girl, and yeah, we had the best time.
Speaker 1: I was in the same boat. I was like, you
Speaker 1: just can't. I want it that way. It's just like,
Speaker 1: how are we going to surpass it? And they fucking
Speaker 1: did it.
Speaker 2: They did it with true surprise. Nicole Richie was Kitty Corner.
Speaker 2: Oh my god.
Speaker 1: The Cole Ritchie was too, like a diagonal box in
Speaker 1: front of us.
Speaker 4: It was amazing.
Speaker 2: Yeah, So at first I saw Joel Madden and I went,
Speaker 2: she's gotta be near. And then I saw Sophia Ritchie,
Speaker 2: her new fiance. I was happy to see them, and
Speaker 2: then some other she friends, but I didn't know who
Speaker 2: they were. And then there was an enemy there as well,
Speaker 2: which I couldn't believe. I was sitting even closer so
Speaker 2: between the Cole Ritchie and I was a person.
Speaker 4: That I truly would care not to talk to.
Speaker 1: And I know this person too, and they came up
Speaker 1: to me and they were like hey, and then I
Speaker 1: was like, oh hi, I haven't talked to you in
Speaker 1: so long, and like we were sort of like just tugging,
Speaker 1: and then she goes, oh, yeah, Lisa and I know
Speaker 1: each other from like back in the day, and I
Speaker 1: was like, oh yeah, I put it together.
Speaker 4: I was like, oh yeah, these two fucking hate each other.
Speaker 2: I don't think she realizes because she's like, we should
Speaker 2: be chill. I'm like, I fucking hate you, and but
Speaker 2: I hugged her. I gave her a cold hug, like
Speaker 2: a lifeless, emotionless.
Speaker 1: She gave her a hug and then like turned around
Speaker 1: and was like, this is the rest is for you.
Speaker 4: I was like, okay, I'll handle this. Like it was funny.
Speaker 2: It was just too much of a fantasy day. I'd
Speaker 2: never been to the Hollywood Bowl. Our seats were so close.
Speaker 2: It was just thrilling. It was our friend's birthday. I
Speaker 2: don't know.
Speaker 1: It was like, I wonder iful run into anyone we know,
Speaker 1: and and because I love.
Speaker 4: Running into people. I love running into people.
Speaker 1: And listeners have messaged us, saying that they were there,
Speaker 1: like we could have run into listeners, we could have
Speaker 1: run into friends, but we run into.
Speaker 2: Nicole Richie made up for it. The Backstreet Boys surpassed it.
Speaker 2: Dance moves, gimmicks like the light up Mike stands in
Speaker 2: the hat, dance like thank you.
Speaker 1: I don't like honestly, I was not not fully on
Speaker 1: the side of like, oh is this going to be sad?
Speaker 1: Like we've had people say like, oh is it sad?
Speaker 1: And it's like, we'll see what it's gonna be like.
Speaker 1: And there they are entertainers, like they are still so
Speaker 1: good at it, Like I'm sorry, they're in their like
Speaker 1: early forties. If anything, they're not just so funny because
Speaker 1: their dance moves are killer.
Speaker 4: That's That's what I'm saying, Like, well, I was impressive.
Speaker 2: I keep telling my parents that. Sorry, I kept interrupting you.
Speaker 2: It's obviously very exciting, but no, their choreo was incredible,
Speaker 2: like Kara was saying, So I keep telling my parents,
Speaker 2: and my parents who are ancient, are like, yeah, they're
Speaker 2: not old. And I'm treating it like can you believe
Speaker 2: them dancing at full force? And they're like, yeah, they're young.
Speaker 4: Men.
Speaker 2: I'm eighty four, so it is they are, but they
Speaker 2: are working out.
Speaker 4: They are working so hard, but they're working at it.
Speaker 2: Singing, singing and great voices and full out choreo, full out.
Speaker 4: They killed it.
Speaker 1: And the Hollywood Bowl is just such like a magical
Speaker 1: place to see a concert.
Speaker 4: I love going to see stuff there.
Speaker 2: So I did have one humiliating moment where I did
Speaker 2: get soft served and I felt like George from Seinfeld
Speaker 2: and I was like, this is upsetting.
Speaker 4: Also, I did run into a listener in the bathroom. Hello.
Speaker 2: We did have a very nice chat and then she
Speaker 2: cupped my face and I went, did you wash your
Speaker 2: hands yet? And she went no. And that was a
Speaker 2: moment time. So thank you for that lovely moment. But
Speaker 2: then in a wild s view turn of events, Sophia
Speaker 2: and I went to the comedy store to keep drinking.
Speaker 2: The board are going and I like to sit in
Speaker 2: the back open area. It's like whatever, it's kind of
Speaker 2: special and I usually sit outside there, but you don't
Speaker 2: know what's happening inside. So finally the manager comes in.
Speaker 2: He's like, okay, I let you stay as long I
Speaker 2: did all my paperwork, Like you have to leave, like
Speaker 2: you're the last two here.
Speaker 4: So then we go outside. There's one last server.
Speaker 2: The three of us are hanging out, and then there's
Speaker 2: just like unsavory people on the other side of the
Speaker 2: like barrier. So there's just three people. I'm not into
Speaker 2: their vibe. And I turned to the server and I
Speaker 2: was like, please don't leave. I was like, please let
Speaker 2: us get into our cars before you leave, and he
Speaker 2: was like, yeah, for sure, and then we left and
Speaker 2: then someone pulled a knife.
Speaker 4: Out on him.
Speaker 2: The one of the guys a six inch blade crazy
Speaker 2: and he's fine. I haven't talked to him, but I
Speaker 2: hear he's okay. He got into his car, but we
Speaker 2: can't leave anyone. I was like so much, like you
Speaker 2: need to protect us, and then I was like, babe,
Speaker 2: and then he got.
Speaker 4: A fucking knife pulled out on him.
Speaker 2: So I'm glad I left, but we should have made
Speaker 2: sure he got into his car too.
Speaker 4: It was yeah, these people seem unhinged.
Speaker 2: But then they made a Facebook post. I did not
Speaker 2: see it. I'm not on Facebook, but.
Speaker 4: Well you are, but you're not.
Speaker 2: I got locked out and the effort to get back
Speaker 2: in not gonna happen.
Speaker 4: So I'm out.
Speaker 2: But I guess these people admitted it all on their
Speaker 2: Facebook page and like said wild stuff, but I don't
Speaker 2: know it was I'm I just they just sucked from top.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but then you were also telling me that the
Speaker 1: comedy store says like a lot of people bring knives,
Speaker 1: Like what the fun?
Speaker 4: Yeah around with a knife. I don't know, shit's fucked up.
Speaker 2: We're like in water World minus the water, like we
Speaker 2: are in fuck in some dystopian madness. And I don't know,
Speaker 2: you don't know what to say, but yeah, they wand everyone,
Speaker 2: and they confiscate about six knives the night, they say,
Speaker 2: but they have to give them back to people at
Speaker 2: the end of the night. Yeah, by law or something.
Speaker 2: But I'm glad they're wanding people. So thank you to
Speaker 2: the security staff that's wanding people.
Speaker 1: Yeah. My father famously always has a knife on his
Speaker 1: belt and has many times tried to go through airport
Speaker 1: security with it, and they'll say he's actually rescheduled flights
Speaker 1: because he's.
Speaker 4: Already gone through.
Speaker 1: He's like already checked a bag and they're like, well,
Speaker 1: you need to throw the knife away then, and he's like, no,
Speaker 1: I won't do that.
Speaker 4: So he'll reschedule flight to go on like a later
Speaker 4: flight so that he.
Speaker 2: Can want to just pack it in his check because
Speaker 2: he's a dumbass.
Speaker 4: He forgets the knife is a part of him. I
Speaker 4: want a knife, though.
Speaker 1: Look in a world where people are walking around with
Speaker 1: AR fifteen's blowing away sixty people at a time, I
Speaker 1: would love everyone to just carry a knife if that
Speaker 1: makes them feel safe, because you can't do that much
Speaker 1: damage with a knife.
Speaker 2: But do you know Mandy the photographer and her husband obviously,
Speaker 2: so she was telling me like details of it, like
Speaker 2: I think she's in the knives or has a knife,
Speaker 2: and she was saying, you want to get one that
Speaker 2: has like this indent so like the blood like pours
Speaker 2: out geez. And I was but right, isn't that shocking
Speaker 2: for her to say it? Like she just doesn't seem
Speaker 2: like someone that would explain how to like drip knife
Speaker 2: out of a knife.
Speaker 4: Yeah, but she didn't.
Speaker 1: Get Oh my god, I don't think I'll be carrying
Speaker 1: a knife anytime soon.
Speaker 4: Would love to see it for you, Lisa, I don't know.
Speaker 4: It's I think it's like hip.
Speaker 2: I think it's the brand new trend is going to
Speaker 2: be knife carrying, Like I just can sit like, there's
Speaker 2: knives at daughter. There's knives at daughter, Like really you
Speaker 2: could buy you can buy a knife at daughter.
Speaker 4: So to me, it's like, okay, you.
Speaker 2: Could buy one hundred and fifty dollars linen dress or
Speaker 2: a knife.
Speaker 1: So it's on the you know, knives are about to
Speaker 1: be huge. Okay, knives are about to have a moment.
Speaker 1: You heard it here first.
Speaker 4: Yeah, that's that's how I feel.
Speaker 2: Oh. I watched the movie Blended last night in the
Speaker 2: hotel while I was doing my crime research.
Speaker 5: What is it?
Speaker 2: It's Adam Sandler Andrew Barrymore, and I think you can
Speaker 2: watch it without commercials on Netflix, but I decided to
Speaker 2: watch it on the E channel. And it's really good.
Speaker 2: It's like a sweet movie. I cried at the end.
Speaker 4: I liked it. I mean, it's like cheesy and weird.
Speaker 2: I'm not saying it's a perfect movie, but I loved it.
Speaker 4: It was cute.
Speaker 2: It was just better than I thought. I thought it
Speaker 2: was gonna be like Jack and Jill. I don't know,
Speaker 2: like I just thought it was gonna be like a mess.
Speaker 4: Is it about? It's not a mess.
Speaker 1: Man and a woman with their own kids that blown
Speaker 1: their families absolutely in an African resort. Ah got it
Speaker 1: the twist.
Speaker 2: But Wendy something something from Bridesmaids and the Goldbergs.
Speaker 4: What's her name? She's so funny and she's.
Speaker 1: Wendy McClendon Covey, one of my favorite favorite girl.
Speaker 4: Why can't she? Why isn't she on SVO? She should
Speaker 4: be on her must be on s She would be
Speaker 4: great on an SVO.
Speaker 2: Wendy. Yes, you know our girl in casting who listens?
Speaker 2: I think Wendy. I think she'd be an amazing rich
Speaker 2: mom that ends up, you know, being the bad villain.
Speaker 4: But she can play anything. She can play, can play
Speaker 4: trash like she's really good. She could play dumb smart.
Speaker 2: You're right, Yeah, I think my fantasy is I want
Speaker 2: her to be bad.
Speaker 1: Yeah, she could absolutely play bad. Did you see I
Speaker 1: watched She's I mean the Reno nine one one movie
Speaker 1: that they did like during COVID. It's the most wild movie.
Speaker 1: Like I can tell they couldn't get You could tell they.
Speaker 4: Couldn't get Nissi Nash for all of it.
Speaker 1: So there's just like a full body double in it
Speaker 1: for like a bunch of it where it's just the
Speaker 1: back of Nisi Nash's heads so funny.
Speaker 4: I love that.
Speaker 1: But she's really funny in it all. As always, she's hilarious. No,
Speaker 1: I follow her on inside, love her. I'm obsessed with
Speaker 1: her from Bridesmaids and beyond. But Reno nine one one
Speaker 1: and all that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that's a blind spot for me. I
Speaker 2: have to watch Reno nine to one one.
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's really wild and funny. Do you talk about
Speaker 4: my hotel drama? I don't know.
Speaker 2: I'm fine to talk about it, or we could just listen.
Speaker 2: I got scammed and I sent you. I sent you
Speaker 2: the things, like I booked it in front of you
Speaker 2: in the car on the way to the airport, but
Speaker 2: I sent you the information, Like do you feel like
Speaker 2: I'm a full dumbass or is a trick in a scam? Well?
Speaker 1: No, but okay, So what happened was she booked this,
Speaker 1: she booked this room, and then once she was done
Speaker 1: booking it, when she got to the total the taxes
Speaker 1: and fees was like eighty percent of what the whole
Speaker 1: total cost would be, more than fifty dollars in eees,
Speaker 1: more than fifty percent of what the total thing was.
Speaker 4: And I was like, that is kind of crazy.
Speaker 2: I'm gonna show look this is but this is the.
Speaker 4: Site, Like, yeah, it does look like a real It was.
Speaker 2: The first thing I should have seen the ad. I
Speaker 2: should have seen it all. I've booked at this place before,
Speaker 2: but I just seem like not, you know, I'm just
Speaker 2: living out to Robert, an incredible manager at the hotel
Speaker 2: I'm staying at, and he figured it out and I
Speaker 2: got a full refund because all these people on because
Speaker 2: then I started looking up the reviews and everyone's like
Speaker 2: I thought I was booking with the hotel. After I paid,
Speaker 2: they added all these fees and they said I couldn't
Speaker 2: get a refund. I couldn't get a refund. And then
Speaker 2: Rob at the hotel, thank you, Rob shout out. He
Speaker 2: was like, connect me, call them and have them call me.
Speaker 2: They know who I am.
Speaker 1: Here's the thing, like, why are you trying to get
Speaker 1: your ass shut down? Like add two hundred bucks and
Speaker 1: move on. No one would even notice that they were
Speaker 1: that you were fucking them up. Why are you getting
Speaker 1: crady trying to add eight hundred dollars like they if
Speaker 1: it had been like one hundred, Like if they just
Speaker 1: add like a couple hundred bucks per person. That's how
Speaker 1: you make money. You're gonna get shut down by the
Speaker 1: Better Business Bureau.
Speaker 4: I don't know.
Speaker 1: Again, Like I try to tell people how to commit
Speaker 1: crimes better, I'm also trying to tell people how.
Speaker 4: To scam people better.
Speaker 5: Now.
Speaker 2: Well, also, I messaged the hotel chain and I'm going
Speaker 2: to send them infoward. It's like, don't partner with these people.
Speaker 2: They're scam artists. Like why are you partnering with them?
Speaker 2: That's like, that's that's not allowed. That shouldn't You should
Speaker 2: be partnering with like shady websites if you want to
Speaker 2: have a legitimate business. But also, I'll stay here forever.
Speaker 2: It's like the top hotel in Scoquie. I'm not gonna
Speaker 2: stay close to the panera.
Speaker 4: Are you kidding? Yeah?
Speaker 1: All right, Well, I'm glad you figured it out and
Speaker 1: didn't get fully scammed.
Speaker 4: But oh, we have one more shout out. We do
Speaker 4: have a shout out.
Speaker 2: We were in San Francisco, Ali and Mark brought us
Speaker 2: pies from I guess a very good pie shop. Yeah,
Speaker 2: we were wasted around one thirty in the morning, and
Speaker 2: those pies.
Speaker 4: Were helpful and delicious.
Speaker 2: They were so good and we ate them with our
Speaker 2: bare hands, just scooped dumb.
Speaker 1: We were in my hotel room with no uh and
Speaker 1: a couple of my friends and we had no utensils,
Speaker 1: and we were just like taking we were taking like
Speaker 1: pieces of crust and like shoveling the pie scoop into
Speaker 1: our moouse.
Speaker 2: But we are some of the some of the best
Speaker 2: pies I've ever had. And San Francis was really fun.
Speaker 4: It was cool.
Speaker 2: Sorry you all got rushed by the staff mid sentence,
Speaker 2: ha ha.
Speaker 4: It was really really fun.
Speaker 1: Apparently the reason we couldn't really find like a good
Speaker 1: bar to go out at after is because like San
Speaker 1: Francisco's kind of sleepy. People said, they're like, it's like
Speaker 1: an it's like a people go to bed.
Speaker 4: Early and wake up early. It was a ghost time.
Speaker 2: We walked back to our hotel and not a single
Speaker 2: soul was out on the store.
Speaker 4: Why yeah, one.
Speaker 2: But maybe we were in a different Maybe we were
Speaker 2: in like a business area, because sometimes they were made
Speaker 2: in like business districts in towns and it does shut down.
Speaker 2: I'm like, why has Pop Belly's closed it too? Like
Speaker 2: I don't get it. But it's because they just service
Speaker 2: the people in suits and service the corporate Let's get
Speaker 2: this going.
Speaker 1: Let's get this party fucking started. We've got a great
Speaker 1: episode for you, guys. Do not go anywhere.
Speaker 2: We are doing a classic episode. If you're a fan
Speaker 2: of John mulaney his comedy, you know this is the
Speaker 2: Dean Kine episode, but officially it is called Starved, Season seven,
Speaker 2: episode eighteen, and the air date's November fifteenth, and that
Speaker 2: is my nephew's birthday.
Speaker 4: Shout out, Benji, so very excited about that. Two thousand,
Speaker 4: two thousand and five.
Speaker 1: Wait, Lisa, can you tell me the Milleni joke about
Speaker 1: Dean Kane. I don't think I remember it.
Speaker 2: Oh, it's like if you were gonna get it, like
Speaker 2: you're getting attacked on the.
Speaker 4: Show and you're like, wait, are you Dean Kane?
Speaker 2: And then he says the name Dean Caine like ten times,
Speaker 2: but oh okay, Yeah, it's just kind of just recognizing
Speaker 2: that it's Dean Kane, who did unfortunately become a wild
Speaker 2: I think Republican who.
Speaker 1: Yeah, he's like in the anti Antonio Sabato Junior camp
Speaker 1: of like former like nineties successful people who are now
Speaker 1: and like Scott Bayo and now they're all like full right,
Speaker 1: wing people. I just the only one of Milleni's I
Speaker 1: ever remember is where he's like then there's always like
Speaker 1: a permissive judge who goes I'll allow it, but watch yourself.
Speaker 4: McCoy, that's my favorite. John mulaney. Wo the IC one.
Speaker 4: I didn't realize he had. So he has four SVU jokes.
Speaker 1: That means, well, the Jack McCoy one, I guess is
Speaker 1: an original recipe joke. But yeah, in the iced t one,
Speaker 1: you tell me this guy gets off on diddling little
Speaker 1: girls or something, right, that's that one.
Speaker 4: Yeah, Oh, here we are, I mean, are we even
Speaker 4: allowed to do this?
Speaker 1: We are not allowed to sing two words of a song,
Speaker 1: and now we're just quoting jokes.
Speaker 4: We might get sued, but we're.
Speaker 2: Saying his name, and I think, you know, he might
Speaker 2: be a fan of the pod.
Speaker 4: We're giving credit. We're giving credit. He's busy raising a child.
Speaker 4: I think I don't know I'm being on tour, Yeah, hanging.
Speaker 2: Out with Chappelle, YadA, YadA. So it's the dank episode
Speaker 2: we're here. It's called Starve. Let's start. It opens with
Speaker 2: some latex gloved hands picking a lock. Dark thematic music plays,
Speaker 2: A light bulb gets twisted out. It's October second, and
Speaker 2: they make a point to zoom in on that on
Speaker 2: like a paper calendar, like a one one off rippy
Speaker 2: calendar that I think is not eco friendly anymore.
Speaker 4: I don't know if they still make those.
Speaker 1: Yeah, though I used to have those, like the Dark
Speaker 1: Side Calendar, of course you did, or the Far.
Speaker 4: Side What is it? Yeah? Yeah, I love those. Like
Speaker 4: a cartoon a day, I was like, they make me giggle.
Speaker 4: There's a criminal and.
Speaker 2: A black ski mask which just the eyes popping out,
Speaker 2: and he's closing in on a woman sleeping. He covers
Speaker 2: her mouth as she struggles, and then he says, obayby
Speaker 2: or die. Now we're in a new home in the
Speaker 2: calendar says October twelfth, and he's cutting a phone cord.
Speaker 2: He covers the mouth of another woman and says the
Speaker 2: same thing, obayby or die. And now there's a third
Speaker 2: victim and she's being pulled out of an apartment on
Speaker 2: a gurney, and Benson and Stabler are on the scene
Speaker 2: and they're getting you know, they're getting scooped from her.
Speaker 4: She's in a pink silk robe, very upset.
Speaker 2: She said that he was strong, tall, Then she said
Speaker 2: she smells baby powder, and then he said obey me
Speaker 2: or die. So Benson's like, fuck, this is the third
Speaker 2: attack this month, and Stabler says, so far, it's like okay, asshole,
Speaker 2: why don't you stop them?
Speaker 1: Then? Yeah, we're not cause we're gonna suck like I Yeah,
Speaker 1: So it's not the attitude you want to manifest that
Speaker 1: you're gonna find the guy. Yeah, Like, she's right there
Speaker 1: on a gurney with you. Can you just be a
Speaker 1: little more optimistic with this woman? Yeah.
Speaker 2: So we're back and we're with the last victim, and
Speaker 2: she's now in a gray zippy hoodie at the hospital
Speaker 2: talking with the detectives. She says she always locks the door,
Speaker 2: and Benson's like, yeah, he picked the lock, and he
Speaker 2: also picked the locks of all the other victims, so
Speaker 2: he knew that you guys were all going to be alone.
Speaker 2: So we have to find out what all of you
Speaker 2: have in common to find out who this is. So
Speaker 2: they start going down all the things like what Jim,
Speaker 2: do you go to do you go to church, are
Speaker 2: you volunteering applying for a mortgage? Where'd you fill out forms?
Speaker 2: Did you go to the doctor, And finally we get
Speaker 2: it speed dating. Okay, these are all busy women and
Speaker 2: they're trying to get it in whenever they can. So
Speaker 2: we cut to the precincts where Munch is giving a
Speaker 2: history lesson on speed dating, and I guess it was
Speaker 2: in by Rabbis.
Speaker 4: So Jews can mate with other Jews.
Speaker 2: I don't know if there's another culture that's so obsessed
Speaker 2: with like fucking within your religion. Maybe they all are,
Speaker 2: but it seems like Jews go out of their way.
Speaker 4: Yeah, Like isn't birthright?
Speaker 1: Like mostly for that too, It's like, oh, get together,
Speaker 1: meet other kids that are in your religion, like start relationships.
Speaker 1: Like it definitely feels like a thing I associate with Judaism.
Speaker 1: And also I've met like Catholic people that are like, oh,
Speaker 1: I'm marrying somebody like this, And I've had Jewish friends
Speaker 1: who are like, I cannot marry outside of Judaism.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and it's like, you know, the parents are always
Speaker 2: guilting you with the Holocaust, so you have to like
Speaker 2: repopulate or something.
Speaker 4: I don't know.
Speaker 1: I mean I had a friend, I had a friend
Speaker 1: in New York who was like I really like this guy,
Speaker 1: Like we get along so great.
Speaker 4: But he's not Jewish, so it's not gonna work out.
Speaker 1: Like I was like, you're just gonna what Like I
Speaker 1: couldn't believe that, Like, but yeah, well yeah.
Speaker 2: I had one psycho friend who became a religious Jew.
Speaker 2: She was like a casual Russian Jew like me, and
Speaker 2: then became a super Jew. And she basically told me
Speaker 2: if marrying a non Jew is like saying that Hitler.
Speaker 2: And I was like, no, I think you're just the
Speaker 2: new Hitler, you weirdo, Like what are you talking about?
Speaker 2: The whole point is that we're all just chilling people
Speaker 2: trying our best, like, and it doesn't matter what you are,
Speaker 2: not that, like, if you fuck a Catholic, you're on
Speaker 2: Hitler's side.
Speaker 4: Whatever. We don't really speak.
Speaker 1: It definitely feels like a master race type of thing
Speaker 1: that you're trying to do if you're trying.
Speaker 4: To like keep everybody to get you know.
Speaker 2: I mean, that's one thing about the Jews that I love.
Speaker 2: They're not trying to convert you, you know what I mean.
Speaker 2: You never see your Jews knocking on the window. They
Speaker 2: don't need you, like, and I.
Speaker 4: Know they're not trying to convert you.
Speaker 1: They're just trying to get their own together with each
Speaker 1: other to produce more Jews.
Speaker 2: If that's it, Oh my god, religion is fucked. Okay,
Speaker 2: all right, okay, So we get Munch's little jew lesson
Speaker 2: and then he says it's one of the many contributions
Speaker 2: as people have made, and then iced he ironically says bagels,
Speaker 2: even though at this point in time he's never even
Speaker 2: eaten a bagel.
Speaker 4: Ever, not one.
Speaker 2: And even more ironically, I was eating a bagel in
Speaker 2: my London hotel room as I was watching and writing
Speaker 2: this note. Wow, can you imagine this bagel? Little matrix
Speaker 2: we have going on? So Stabler is a fucking idiot,
Speaker 2: so he asks how to speed dating work, and then
Speaker 2: he gets a detailed description for Munch, and then Stabler
Speaker 2: tries to shame him, and he's like, why do you
Speaker 2: know so much about it? And he's like, not all
Speaker 2: of us can knock up our high school sweethearts and
Speaker 2: force them to raise four children alone as you have
Speaker 2: an emotional affair with your coworker, okay, and slam people
Speaker 2: in the cabinets.
Speaker 4: That's what I was just gonna say, what speed dating?
Speaker 1: I got married at eighteen, straight out of Catholic school.
Speaker 4: Explain it to me. What do you mean you're busy?
Speaker 2: Don't you have a woman just doing shit for you
Speaker 2: at the house you don't let leave or have a hobby.
Speaker 2: None of them went on dates with the same guy, though,
Speaker 2: so who could it be. So they're like, maybe it's
Speaker 2: the head of the company or a worker in the company,
Speaker 2: or maybe fake names have been used. And we know
Speaker 2: that the purp like successful women in their thirties. So
Speaker 2: they head to the speed dating place called speed Encounters,
Speaker 2: and the person who created it is a former therapist
Speaker 2: who fucked his patients and lost his license.
Speaker 4: I love this detail.
Speaker 2: I hope that's included in the real crime that you
Speaker 2: covered today, Kara. I hope there's a therapist that loses
Speaker 2: his license. I love this my type exactly. He's denying
Speaker 2: raping anybody, but he's the only link between all three women,
Speaker 2: and they all dated different men, and he says maybe
Speaker 2: not some people don't use their real names for speed dating.
Speaker 2: So the guy tries to see if maybe all those
Speaker 2: different names have like one email. They do, it's Romeo
Speaker 2: at four youmail dot com. I know that Kara loves
Speaker 2: their fake internet, so I of course I included it.
Speaker 4: I loving your notes.
Speaker 1: It's like it's lit up, like it's a really email address. Y,
Speaker 1: like it jumps off the page because I'm like, oh
Speaker 1: romeo at forumail dot com.
Speaker 4: Oh, they hyperlinked it.
Speaker 2: They didn't know that it was an sv fake place,
Speaker 2: and they tell him to please halla if that email
Speaker 2: signs up for another dating event. We're back at the
Speaker 2: chalkboard at the precinct and stablers with the three female
Speaker 2: victims that we met earlier, swapping details about the guy
Speaker 2: that they went on a date with, and we find
Speaker 2: out that he paid for everything, opened the door for them,
Speaker 2: listen to them, but then why no second dates? Table asks,
Speaker 2: He's like, damn, you gotta marry that guy. He opened
Speaker 2: a door. So basically he insisted on ordering for them.
Speaker 2: He's a control freak, and then like tried to force
Speaker 2: one of them to eat sushi who didn't want to
Speaker 2: eat sushi. So anytime there's no second date, it seems
Speaker 2: like he goes out for revenge. So spying in on
Speaker 2: this little meeting is George Quang and Benson, and Huang
Speaker 2: says he's like a narcissist, classic narcissist. He's trying to
Speaker 2: repair his wounded Ego from not getting a second date.
Speaker 2: The rundown from Huang is that he's detail oriented, precise,
Speaker 2: takes pride in his work, disciplined, organized, meticulous. All those
Speaker 2: words mean the same thing. One of those words would
Speaker 2: have been fun. I don't know why you here to
Speaker 2: say precise, discipline, organized, meticulous, and especially since he's left
Speaker 2: nothing behind except the sense of baby powder, like he
Speaker 2: is aroused by total control. Craigan rushes in that Romeo
Speaker 2: is RSVP for another event, so they decide to put
Speaker 2: Benson in as bait. There's one set of daters bonding
Speaker 2: over both being abducted by aliens. Love that Benson is
Speaker 2: talking to a man that collects pet dispensers.
Speaker 4: I like that.
Speaker 2: Too, and I would be crushing at the speed dating event.
Speaker 4: And so it's time to switch dates.
Speaker 2: And you know, her sticker says Rachel, and in walks
Speaker 2: Dean Kane and he says his name is Jim, and
Speaker 2: he's like, you're the hottest babe in this room, and
Speaker 2: they giggle, they flirt.
Speaker 4: She does a busy successful.
Speaker 2: Woman spiel and not wanting to fuck men at work,
Speaker 2: and then he has kind of a sexy line and
Speaker 2: goes my business, won't fuck with our pleasure. They giggle
Speaker 2: cats in the bag. So now we're back in the
Speaker 2: office and Stabler is trying to shade Olivia because he
Speaker 2: hasn't called yet, and she's like he's gonna call, and
Speaker 2: he's like, Oh, don't worry, you might not be his type.
Speaker 2: And I'm just so annoyed with Stabler here. It's like
Speaker 2: she's everybody's type. Go fuck yourself.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Also, do you think that, like, do you think
Speaker 1: there just got to be a point where they were like,
Speaker 1: we don't send Olivia to do undercover anymore now, we
Speaker 1: just send Rollins. Like it's not like she's not still gorgeous,
Speaker 1: Like they just don't. I mean, she's a captain now,
Speaker 1: so obviously you wouldn't really do that. But like, there
Speaker 1: just got to be a point in the show where
Speaker 1: they were like Rollin's is always undercover and Olivia never
Speaker 1: is anymore as like the sexy babe going on the date.
Speaker 2: Yeah, kat was like undercover as just an annoying person,
Speaker 2: and then Correese and Stabler have gone undercover as pedophiles.
Speaker 2: They're like, yeah, cover pedophiles, but yeah, captains can't go undercover. Also,
Speaker 2: Benson is so famous, isn't she always in the newspapers
Speaker 2: and do it for that conference?
Speaker 4: Like that's true too, that's true. She is a famous
Speaker 4: police captain.
Speaker 2: Yeah, she's like meeting well, you know, it's kind of
Speaker 2: this is not ripped from the headlines. A captain getting
Speaker 2: a police officer getting news for doing something good does
Speaker 2: not happen. So now they go off to a date. Okay,
Speaker 2: he calls, everything's good. They're going on a date Dean
Speaker 2: Cain and Benson, and Benson's looking spicy black dress with
Speaker 2: a crisscross halter top, and he's doing the like you're
Speaker 2: not like other girls speech, which is not cool because
Speaker 2: he's like, oh, you're so hot and smart and successful,
Speaker 2: Like I don't meet women like that. And it's like, well,
Speaker 2: we've met three other women that you went on dates
Speaker 2: with were all those things, So what are you talking about?
Speaker 2: She says, it's nice to meet a man that appreciates
Speaker 2: all three. And you know, like he swipes her hair
Speaker 2: with I think that's too much for a first date,
Speaker 2: like swiping hair from a face.
Speaker 4: Yeah, don't touch my hair, Yeah, I don't touch my
Speaker 4: hair too much? Too much.
Speaker 2: When the waitress comes over, he asks the for Rachel
Speaker 2: aka Benson wants another drink. She asks for another glass
Speaker 2: of wine and he says, no, no, she's gonna have
Speaker 2: a dirty vodka martini with extra olives and what a
Speaker 2: punge in drink. Both Karen and I would not like that,
Speaker 2: we would be I'm very upset with any of them.
Speaker 4: No, we don't want that, and.
Speaker 2: I want that and she's like, oh, I don't drink vodka.
Speaker 2: I want wine and he says, no, trust me, you're
Speaker 2: gonna love it. So this is definitely our guy, very
Speaker 2: on the nose with what the woman said about him,
Speaker 2: and Rachel ak Benson is grossed out. Then he reveals
Speaker 2: he's recently single, and he says the craziest stuff about
Speaker 2: his ex, like what woman would be into anything that he.
Speaker 4: Is saying right here?
Speaker 2: He's like, yeah, I knew two months and she wasn't
Speaker 2: for me, but I kept dating her because she cooked
Speaker 2: and kept the apartment clean, Like you're saying that out
Speaker 2: loud to a woman. He says that she's too clingy, insecure.
Speaker 2: He wants an equal a woman who knows what she wants,
Speaker 2: except won't let her have it, like she wanted a
Speaker 2: glass of wine. You definitely don't like a woman who
Speaker 2: knows what she wants, like you want to break her. Like,
Speaker 2: so yeah, he wants a woman that he can dim
Speaker 2: her light over time. He massages her arm and asks
Speaker 2: what she's thinking, and she's like, I think it's late
Speaker 2: and I've had a long day. I have a long
Speaker 2: date tomorrow. So like, piece the fuck out good night
Speaker 2: and leaves. He throws cash on the table and runs
Speaker 2: out after her. And now see Finn, who's been there
Speaker 2: all along at the bar, also wearing a disguise of glasses,
Speaker 2: but like, you don't need a disguise, no one knows
Speaker 2: who you are or what you're doing. But also glasses
Speaker 2: make your eyes bigger and would not hide you at all.
Speaker 2: So what is happening here? Why is he wearing glasses?
Speaker 4: I don't know. I don't know.
Speaker 1: Also, like I I know that this is like a
Speaker 1: trope in television shows to wear such a fancy outfit
Speaker 1: like what Benson is wearing. But like, have you ever
Speaker 1: worn anything remotely this fancy on a first date? No?
Speaker 4: But maybe rich people that go to such fits. No,
Speaker 4: I haven't. I don't know, Like I mean, I would
Speaker 4: maybe wear like a skirt.
Speaker 1: I don't know, like I can't remember I've been on
Speaker 1: blind first dates like from internet dating or whatever. But
Speaker 1: like I feel like it's I was very keeping it cash,
Speaker 1: don't try too hard, but like there are people are
Speaker 1: always in like a slinky body con dress, like heading
Speaker 1: out for a first date.
Speaker 4: I know it's very sex in the city.
Speaker 2: When Charlotte's like Saturday's date night, I would never yeah,
Speaker 2: you know, like so maybe people maybe the cosm when
Speaker 2: Cosmo was king in the nineties, people dressed up.
Speaker 4: I wonder if dating's changed. I don't know, Yeah, I mean,
Speaker 4: I don't know.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, I think it's like everybody with apps,
Speaker 1: it's like everyone's trying to like be a little bit
Speaker 1: more casual. So it's like before you go out to
Speaker 1: like a fancy dinner, you'd maybe just meet for coffee
Speaker 1: or meat for a drink first, and then maybe like
Speaker 1: your second or third date would be like I'm taking
Speaker 1: you to like, you know, hot restaurant.
Speaker 2: I was talking to a friend out here who went
Speaker 2: on a first date and he showed up with six
Speaker 2: bunches of flowers and she didn't love that, But then
Speaker 2: he had tickets to a concert. She wanted to go
Speaker 2: to so she did go to the concert with him,
Speaker 2: and then he got so blackout drunk and then she
Speaker 2: never saw him.
Speaker 4: Again because he was just so wasted at this concert.
Speaker 4: Oh no, but yeah, like yeah, we're we're. He sounds
Speaker 4: like he was really nervous.
Speaker 2: Yeah, then maybe one bunch of flowers, but yeah, just
Speaker 2: don't ever go with six bunches of flowers or just
Speaker 2: more casual like even we've talked before about like high
Speaker 2: school kids like proms, like people are wearing short dresses.
Speaker 4: They're not doing ball gowns like they used to. It's sneakers.
Speaker 2: I think just as a society, we've kind of you know,
Speaker 2: chilled out a little bit.
Speaker 4: Well yeah, and I mean especially in LA.
Speaker 1: Like I remember going into some places in New York
Speaker 1: where I'd be like, oh, I'm not dressed nice enough
Speaker 1: for this place. And in LA that like doesn't exist.
Speaker 1: You can go to the nicest fucking restaurant and there's
Speaker 1: some like tech dude in like a hoodie and cargo shorts,
Speaker 1: and like it just doesn't I've probably said this before
Speaker 1: on the podcast, but like I think there's no way
Speaker 1: to underdress here.
Speaker 4: Like no, yeah, yoga moms.
Speaker 2: Yoga moms are the leaders of La leisure, baby, so whatever.
Speaker 2: So we're back to iced tea and giant glasses and
Speaker 2: he chases after them. Now Benson is walking towards her place,
Speaker 2: and he's waiting for her in some back door on
Speaker 2: the floor, like this weird door that looks like it's
Speaker 2: part of like a restaurant with a little square thing like.
Speaker 2: I don't think Benson would live in a building with
Speaker 2: this kind of door, but he's he's into some door.
Speaker 2: Watch the fucking episode. I can't describe this door any
Speaker 2: better for you. It's like a back staircase, No way
Speaker 2: I described it. It's like a back staircase store like
Speaker 2: emergency exit stairs.
Speaker 4: And it has like a little window. Yeah.
Speaker 2: So he's standing outside the apartment watching her, and then
Speaker 2: Stabler and Finn are there to arrest him for three
Speaker 2: counts of rape. I think they should have waited for
Speaker 2: him to enter the apartment, but it's TV and I
Speaker 2: get it.
Speaker 4: Whatever.
Speaker 2: So now we're in interrogation. He's standing in front of
Speaker 2: the wired window. I didn't rape anyone. I'm a surgeon, okay, okay,
Speaker 2: I save lives every day. And Stabler is like, yeah,
Speaker 2: to make up for your bad performance in the bedroom.
Speaker 2: Heard you got rejected a lot, and he says, you
Speaker 2: must have me mistaken for somebody else, and Sabler is
Speaker 2: like yes and starts rattling off all the fake names
Speaker 2: he's been using, and in walks Benson, saying and Jim,
Speaker 2: and he goes Rachel and she goes, nah, my name's
Speaker 2: Detective Benson. Mike Jurgens. Is this guy's real name though
Speaker 2: it is not Jim. And she asked, why didn't you
Speaker 2: say you were a doctor, And he goes, women here
Speaker 2: doctor and they see dollar signs and he was just
Speaker 2: protecting himself, but he said he worked on Wall Street
Speaker 2: and work like was in finance, which is literal money.
Speaker 1: Yeah, literal dollar signs. When I hear doctor, I don't
Speaker 1: even think rich.
Speaker 2: I think you have a busy schedule and I like
Speaker 2: to lounge a little more than that. And I don't
Speaker 2: think we're cat all. I can't deal with you. We're
Speaker 2: at five am, going to surgery. We're not gonna get along.
Speaker 1: Yeah, if you're really trying to like weed out gold diggers,
Speaker 1: you should be like, I work for a nonprofit.
Speaker 4: I'm a kindergarten teacher. I don't know something you know.
Speaker 2: So he's a pretty bad liar for being a like
Speaker 2: conniving rapist. She quick slee shows she quick sleep. That's
Speaker 2: a cute kidname. I bet quick Slei's gonna quick sleeve.
Speaker 2: He's gonna be kids' names for cute little quick sli
Speaker 2: She quickly asks, then why did you follow me home?
Speaker 2: And he says I just I just wanted to apologize,
Speaker 2: and Sailor says, no, you just wanted to see where
Speaker 2: she lived. And he's doing big like you got the
Speaker 2: wrong guy, and Slor goes, no, you act like a
Speaker 2: control freak. She turns you down. You stuck, then you
Speaker 2: sneak back to rape. You are compulsive. In the same
Speaker 2: script every time he calls Stablor crazy and he's like,
Speaker 2: I'm crazy, honey. But then in walks at the defense
Speaker 2: attorney going not another word, And it's Minerva Graham Bishop.
Speaker 2: That's not a real name. It's a white hair lady
Speaker 2: that resembles Missus Potts from Beauty and the Beasts to
Speaker 2: me like in her spirit, like she gives me teapot
Speaker 2: spirit and then behind her runs in a brunette woman
Speaker 2: who comes to hug Dean Kane and it's his girlfriend.
Speaker 1: Oh and can I just say that Missus Potts that
Speaker 1: you're talking about. Minerva grand Bishop is played by Terry Garr,
Speaker 1: who is an amazing actress who I am like obsessed
Speaker 1: with from all these movies in like the eighties and nineties.
Speaker 4: What movies would I know any of them?
Speaker 1: Well, she was in Close Encounters of the Third Kind,
Speaker 1: which is like old Like and Tootsie and Young Frankenstein
Speaker 1: like these are all like in the seventies. Let's see,
Speaker 1: she hasn't done anything since twenty eleven, so yeah, she's
Speaker 1: not acting anymore. Yeah, spu was one of like the
Speaker 1: last ten things she did before she stopped.
Speaker 2: So yeah, So in walks Minerva aka Sarry gar you know,
Speaker 2: Kara's number one eighties crush.
Speaker 4: I am her number one fan.
Speaker 2: And then behind her is, like I said, brunette woman
Speaker 2: hugs Dean Kane. It's his girlfriend, Cora Kennison, And yeah,
Speaker 2: they've been living together for a year. Everyone looks puzzled,
Speaker 2: and then she then, with the nudging of the lawyer
Speaker 2: and her guy, says that they were home together all
Speaker 2: night in bed on Tuesday, so it can't be him.
Speaker 2: Nobody believes this Okay. I'm like, it's clearly a staging.
Speaker 4: And she's like a little mousey mouse right, She's just.
Speaker 1: Like, oh, yeah, this is my hunky boyfriend and he's
Speaker 1: a surgeon, and like.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, she has like bags under her eyes. It's
Speaker 2: not healthy. So now the defense is having their own
Speaker 2: time in the fish tank while Novic and Benson are
Speaker 2: stay and Stabler are chatting on the other side of
Speaker 2: the glass. So Benson says how he bad mouthed her
Speaker 2: the whole day and he doesn't care about her at all,
Speaker 2: and Novak's doing her job by saying, Okay, that's not
Speaker 2: going to hold up in court.
Speaker 4: What are you talking about.
Speaker 2: There's no evidence, and uh like bringing the women to
Speaker 2: id him and they're like and she's like, yes, but
Speaker 2: they can only id him as going on a date
Speaker 2: with him. They can't id him as their attacker. Like
Speaker 2: that doesn't work. Novak agrees with me that they should
Speaker 2: have waited for him to attack Olivia before arresting him,
Speaker 2: because everything else is circumstantial, and but Olivia is pissed, like,
Speaker 2: we couldn't have waited because sometimes it's weeks before the
Speaker 2: attack and what if he attacked someone else in the
Speaker 2: middle or something, so whatever.
Speaker 4: She has to break his alibi. That's like what the
Speaker 4: goal is.
Speaker 2: So Benson's like, I'll take a run at korash that
Speaker 2: little mousey mouse. I'll fuck her like I'll fuck her up,
Speaker 2: I'll break away.
Speaker 1: Can I just ask, though, like if anybody is it
Speaker 1: really not enough of a link that three women went
Speaker 1: on on a date with this same guy and they
Speaker 1: all ended up getting raped in the exact same way,
Speaker 1: Like how is that a coincidence?
Speaker 4: It's not, but it's it's circumstantial.
Speaker 1: I just can't believe that, you know, I feel like
Speaker 1: a jury, yes, but you have to be proven guilty
Speaker 1: with no bet.
Speaker 4: What is that benefit of the doubt? Like what's the word?
Speaker 4: There's like a reasonable doubt, reasonable doubt. Yeah, so I.
Speaker 1: Guess there's reasonable doubt that somebody followed all these women
Speaker 1: on this date with this man and then later went
Speaker 1: and raped them, like spotted them on the date with
Speaker 1: this man, and also and said to each one of
Speaker 1: them obey me or die, Like I don't know. I
Speaker 1: just feel like a jury would convict just based off
Speaker 1: of the coincidential But I guess it is okay circumstantial anyway,
Speaker 1: go on, I agree with you.
Speaker 4: I'm not on the side of the law.
Speaker 2: Okay, I agree with Kara, but I also understand what
Speaker 2: you know. It is what it is, right, So yeah,
Speaker 2: Benson's like, oh, I'll take a run at Cora. Don't worry.
Speaker 2: I did date her boyfriend. And it's like, okay, bitch,
Speaker 2: Caddy Benson. So she arrives at their place and Core's like, no,
Speaker 2: Mike said you would try to trick me and I
Speaker 2: don't want to talk to you, and she's like, fair, fair,
Speaker 2: fair cops are trash, Like I know that, but did
Speaker 2: he tell you he went on a date with me?
Speaker 4: And she says, you're lying.
Speaker 2: Benson then shows her photos of the date and maybe
Speaker 2: this is what I was saying. Finn took them with
Speaker 2: the hidden camera in his glasses.
Speaker 4: Do you think Finn had early Google glass?
Speaker 1: Yeah, taking photos of the Google glass in two thousand
Speaker 1: and five.
Speaker 4: Yeah, the pilot program for Google Glass was Finn Tootuola.
Speaker 2: So maybe he was taking photos with his big nerd glasses.
Speaker 2: She's like, there must be some other explanation, and it's like, honey,
Speaker 2: come on, denial is real. Benson is like, let's just
Speaker 2: go have coffee. And this works. You know, she is
Speaker 2: desperate and alone. So they are now having coffee and
Speaker 2: Cora's eating a muffin. Well, there's muffins on the plate there.
Speaker 2: They look blueberry, they look good. She's not eating the muffins,
Speaker 2: but there's a few on the plate. They met because
Speaker 2: her last boyfriend beat her up and she went to
Speaker 2: the er and he was her doctor. She's like, yeah, wow,
Speaker 2: a guy like that. I couldn't believe he was interested
Speaker 2: in me. And Benson then, with her years of experience,
Speaker 2: asks the question out of left field that I would
Speaker 2: not have thought to ask at all, and she asks
Speaker 2: if he's ever forced her to do something in the
Speaker 2: bedroom that she didn't want to do. Cora gets shy,
Speaker 2: but then she's like, there's nothing I wouldn't do for Mike.
Speaker 2: We love each other, so we know she does atal
Speaker 2: that's what they're gonna do. And she's like, okay, then
Speaker 2: why does he date other women? And she says, I'm
Speaker 2: not as smart as Mike. I didn't go to college,
Speaker 2: and sometimes he needs other people to talk to, but
Speaker 2: he always comes home and that's what matters.
Speaker 4: That's sad, so sad.
Speaker 2: Benson then plays the recording of Mike talking about her
Speaker 2: from the day and she starts to tear up, tears
Speaker 2: streamed down her face.
Speaker 4: An incredible actress.
Speaker 2: Benson pushes her, wait what No, not physically like pushes
Speaker 2: her for a.
Speaker 4: Question and goes like wait what, wait what?
Speaker 2: This girl's crying and Benson pushes her, shoves her so bention.
Speaker 2: Benson metaphorically pushes her like, hey, did you act?
Speaker 4: Did he ask you to lie for him?
Speaker 2: She slowly nods yes, then says yeah, was he home
Speaker 2: Tuesday night? And Chorus says I'm gonna be sick and
Speaker 2: she runs off, And now we're at the priests. Benson
Speaker 2: is asking Cora more questions. We learn how he left
Speaker 2: with his gym bag, and we need coor to give
Speaker 2: permission to search the apartment, and she's having a really
Speaker 2: hard time with this and keeps saying he's a good
Speaker 2: man and that she doesn't believe that he would be
Speaker 2: out there raping. Benson then bullies Cora into giving the
Speaker 2: detectives consent to search the apartment. And you know, Casey's
Speaker 2: gonna yell at them for this for sure, this is
Speaker 2: not above board, And Finn and Stabler are there and
Speaker 2: they're going through the bag and it's all the things.
Speaker 2: It's lock pickers, latex gloves, tools, magnifying glass, baby powder,
Speaker 2: like truly everything. Finn is confused though, because he's rich
Speaker 2: and smart and has a woman waiting for him at home,
Speaker 2: and Stabler's like, yeah, you've been on the squad for
Speaker 2: five years, Like what don't you understand.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's not like rape's not about like having fun sex,
Speaker 1: Like that's like not about like that's not what it's about.
Speaker 2: Finn is just so simple where he's like, yeah, you
Speaker 2: have a woman in video games for the job.
Speaker 4: What's the problem. Why do you gotta what more do
Speaker 4: you want in life?
Speaker 2: So Mike walks in and he's in scrubs and mad
Speaker 2: and rolling his eyes like a teen, like what the fuck.
Speaker 2: Benson and Cora are walking towards the elevators and they
Speaker 2: bring him in and they hug and he's like, it's
Speaker 2: not your fault.
Speaker 4: We'll be together soon, and she.
Speaker 2: Screams, I don't understand when they tell her like they
Speaker 2: found all of the tools and now it's an obvious
Speaker 2: commercial break and we were returned to Judge Elizabeth Donnelly's chambers. Basically,
Speaker 2: Minerva says that Cora had no right to consent to
Speaker 2: a search because it's not her apartment, and Casey says, nah,
Speaker 2: roommates or living girlfriends are allowed to give consent to searches.
Speaker 2: Then Minerva, with a curveball, goes, yeah, sure, but she
Speaker 2: doesn't actually live there. She has a lease on another
Speaker 2: apartment where she gets her mail. Boom, Casey's lips look
Speaker 2: so plump and good. Anyways, judge asks if the detectives
Speaker 2: knew she had another place and was just an overnight guest,
Speaker 2: and Casey says, absolutely not. And also the defense is
Speaker 2: claiming that that's just his medical bag. It has nothing
Speaker 2: to do with crimes. And it's like shore jam.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you have to pick so many locks when you're
Speaker 1: on your way to surgery.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but there's no ski mask and so we need
Speaker 2: to find the scheme mask that would really help the case.
Speaker 2: So but the judge judge, the search is out, the
Speaker 2: bag is out, everything is out.
Speaker 4: I disagree with this, but I guess the law is
Speaker 4: the law.
Speaker 2: So now we have seventy two hours to get an
Speaker 2: indictment or doctor Jurgen's walks and that's the brand of
Speaker 2: a lotion, And I don't know why they did that.
Speaker 4: Benson and Stabler.
Speaker 2: Are like, what now, Casey, you fucking bitch, why'd you
Speaker 2: ruin our case?
Speaker 4: And Casey says, we.
Speaker 2: Start over and need fresh evidence, new warrants for worklocker, house,
Speaker 2: and car.
Speaker 4: But it's like the mask is long gone.
Speaker 2: He's not a full dummy, and she's like, sure, but
Speaker 2: maybe proof he bought one, like come on, let's work.
Speaker 2: And they also have to convince Cora to testify and
Speaker 2: Benson does not think that's going to be possible at all,
Speaker 2: but she's Casey's first witness for the grand jury tomorrow morning.
Speaker 2: So Benson runs and starts banging on a door, asking
Speaker 2: Cora for like who doesn't answer, So Benson just enters
Speaker 2: the home Cora Cora, and then she sees a messy
Speaker 2: like oven, kitchen top, and on the bed behind a
Speaker 2: curtain is a passed out Cora with an empty bottle
Speaker 2: of vodka. She calls a bus to three ninety West
Speaker 2: twenty third Street and she's like, wake up, wake up,
Speaker 2: and she isn't waking. So now we're at the hospital
Speaker 2: and it's Surfer doctor and he's there and he he
Speaker 2: left this. Now Cora's blood alcohol was point three five. Wow,
Speaker 2: that's wild, he says, lucky to be alive. So Surfer
Speaker 2: Doc says she'll be all right for now, but her
Speaker 2: liver is fuxed and she's an alcoholic with a binge
Speaker 2: drinking problem. She has alcohol poisoning and also she's bullimic
Speaker 2: and needs to go to rehab with long term treatment.
Speaker 2: This is a big, big medical appointment, I would say,
Speaker 2: a changing point in what's about to happen. So Benson
Speaker 2: goes to have a heart to heart with Cora about
Speaker 2: her drinking and binging and that she needs help or
Speaker 2: that she's gonna die. And she says that Mike knew
Speaker 2: about her problems and was trying to help her, and
Speaker 2: now she has nobody in Benson's like, no, I will
Speaker 2: get you into a program. I'm Avia Benson, don't worry,
Speaker 2: and she says, yes, I will go to a program.
Speaker 2: And then a woman enters and says Cora, and Cora
Speaker 2: does not seem happy to see her. Must be a mother,
Speaker 2: and it's her mother. She wants to take her home,
Speaker 2: and her mom is like, excuse me, who are you
Speaker 2: And she's like, I'm a cop and I'm here to
Speaker 2: take her to treatment, and the mom is like, the fuck,
Speaker 2: what did Mike do to you? If the cops are here,
Speaker 2: obviously this has to do with Mike, and Benson lays
Speaker 2: it out for Mama Cora and is like, he raped
Speaker 2: three women and we need Cora to testify tomorrow, and
Speaker 2: she says that man is poison. She then starts yelling
Speaker 2: at Cora as she's in the hospital bed like okay, lady,
Speaker 2: but basically not the move, not the move, not the move.
Speaker 2: But basically it's like, fuck Mike, that's why you're drinking.
Speaker 4: And he sucks.
Speaker 2: And everyone kind of wants a bit of Cora. They
Speaker 2: all are helping her, but it's also selfish in their
Speaker 2: own needs, and so like Cora is just like a
Speaker 2: sad girl that has bullie mea and is like drinking
Speaker 2: herself to death and just wants to be loved and
Speaker 2: have a mom who's not yet at her as she's
Speaker 2: in the hospital.
Speaker 4: So this fully sucks.
Speaker 2: So Mom, Mike, Benson, grand jury, and she just wants
Speaker 2: to cry in peace.
Speaker 4: Let her cry alone.
Speaker 2: It's the next morning, as Benson says good morning to
Speaker 2: Stabler walking into work, Stabler fills her in that the
Speaker 2: grand jury indicted him on all three rapes. She wasn't
Speaker 2: performing excitement good enough for him. So he's like, well,
Speaker 2: you don't seem happy, why aren't you happier?
Speaker 4: I didn't. I did not.
Speaker 2: Get this interaction, like you guys have cases all the time,
Speaker 2: Like why does she have to tap dance for you
Speaker 2: right now?
Speaker 4: Yeah? And she says I'm worried about Cora.
Speaker 2: She's really fragile, and Stabler's like, you got her into rehab,
Speaker 2: that's good, and she says, no, Virginia, the.
Speaker 4: Mother won't let her go. Okay, Cora is over eighteen.
Speaker 2: Why does the mother all of a sudden have like
Speaker 2: jurisdiction over Cora's life? Yeah, Virginia claims she can take
Speaker 2: care of her daughter just fine, and Stabler says love
Speaker 2: never cured an alcoholic, and in behind Stabler's head runs
Speaker 2: in the mother.
Speaker 4: She's gone. She's gone.
Speaker 2: So they were at Penn station waiting for the trains
Speaker 2: and then she disappeared. So the mom is like crying
Speaker 2: and blaming herself. Where could she be? It's obviously to
Speaker 2: go see Mike. So they rush over to Rikers and
Speaker 2: oh no, they're married. Oh no, jail house wedding ugh.
Speaker 4: They got married. She can't testify against him now.
Speaker 2: They informed the newly married couple that since the rapes
Speaker 2: though happened before the marriage, she still has to testify.
Speaker 2: But then he claims that's not why he married her.
Speaker 2: I don't know, but he's dragged away, saying he loves her.
Speaker 2: She says she's not going to rehab anymore and Mike
Speaker 2: will help her, and Benson is livid he's never helped
Speaker 2: you before. He lets you drink to control you and
Speaker 2: married you to shut you up. He's using you. And
Speaker 2: then Cora says, you're using me, pretending to be my
Speaker 2: friend so I can frame him, and she screams shut up.
Speaker 2: Benson tries to reason with Cora and says, you know
Speaker 2: deep in your heart that he is guilty, and she responds,
Speaker 2: I don't want him to be. Benson is back on
Speaker 2: her testifying pressure and bullshit, and she's like, I'm not
Speaker 2: sending my husband to prison, lady. So we're now back
Speaker 2: to the trial. Part twenty nine. Dean Kin is looking
Speaker 2: at Cora on the stand. She admits to lying to
Speaker 2: the cops because Mike told her to. Minerva's like, you
Speaker 2: married him after he was accused of assault, like do
Speaker 2: you believe he's a rapist?
Speaker 4: And she says, I don't know.
Speaker 2: He wasn't violent with her, and he saved her from
Speaker 2: an abusive relationship and he never raped her.
Speaker 4: So and she's.
Speaker 2: Only there because they made you know her testify and
Speaker 2: that she doesn't have a choice. She yells, why are
Speaker 2: you doing this to the man you love? Judge Donnelly
Speaker 2: offers her a break and she says, yes, please. So
Speaker 2: the judge has been and the judge did you notice
Speaker 2: Judith Light's hair in this? It's like eighties backup singer,
Speaker 2: like a high up jel.
Speaker 4: It was a fucking due. It was a wild ass
Speaker 4: like David Bowie inspired. Yes, yes, yeah, yeah yeah, so eighties.
Speaker 2: So she walks up to Dean Kane and says, I'm sorry,
Speaker 2: and he says it's okay, sweetheart, I love you. Casey
Speaker 2: no back looks at Dean Kane with disgust. Oh no,
Speaker 2: We're in Benson's bed at night. So I'm really nervous.
Speaker 2: And then she gets a call. I'm even more nervous.
Speaker 4: It's Cora.
Speaker 2: Mike calls her and all we hear is like, Benson,
Speaker 2: we don't know what Cora sing, So all we hear
Speaker 2: is Cora, Cora, how much of you had to drink?
Speaker 4: I'm on my way. She has a lot of gold
Speaker 4: necklaces on. I love it. I want them all.
Speaker 2: She calls Elliott for a bus and to call Rikers
Speaker 2: and put Mike on suicide watch. So they all arrive
Speaker 2: on the scene and the cops are giving her CPR
Speaker 2: and it's like, what the fuck just happened? And they're
Speaker 2: losing her and there's a tube in her throat and
Speaker 2: Benson's like, I just talked to her, what the fuck?
Speaker 2: And they're like, leave us alone. We have to keep
Speaker 2: her alive, So like, can you stop talking to us?
Speaker 2: We're trying to save this woman. We're at the hospital
Speaker 2: and she has a breathing tube down her throat and
Speaker 2: she's slowly bring like blinking. And then now we have
Speaker 2: the brunette fun doctor who I love, doctor Anne Morello
Speaker 2: who plays who's played by Julie White.
Speaker 4: And she has sixty nine I am dB credits.
Speaker 2: Heyoh, and do you watch Big Mouth? Yeah, she's Andrew
Speaker 2: Rannall's mother and big Mouth. She's like the gay boys
Speaker 2: mom in Big Mouth. Oh, So that's exciting and she's
Speaker 2: only been in five episodes of SVU, but I feel like,
Speaker 2: what an impact like to me?
Speaker 4: I was like, we've.
Speaker 1: Covered yeah, we've covered other episodes she's done, and I
Speaker 1: was surprised to hear like I thought she was in many, many,
Speaker 1: many episodes.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I just like her.
Speaker 2: But she says that her heart is pumping, but her
Speaker 2: brain is done and it was like a deprived of
Speaker 2: oxygen for far too long and she will never recover, sad,
Speaker 2: so it's irreversible brain damage. And then her mother yells,
Speaker 2: but her eyes are moving, she is blinking, and the
Speaker 2: doctor explains that's just a brain stem reflex and she
Speaker 2: doesn't see us or anything, but like, she didn't even
Speaker 2: have that much to drink, but because of the bolimia,
Speaker 2: it just made it worse and it's sad. But they
Speaker 2: have to tell the mom that she's just not going
Speaker 2: to get better and it's done, and the mom is
Speaker 2: wet eyes sad, so like right now she's like Cora's
Speaker 2: on supportive care.
Speaker 4: We got to keep her comfortable.
Speaker 2: And Benson says, I'm sorry, and then Virginia says, it's
Speaker 2: your fault because she drank because you were making her
Speaker 2: testify and Benson explains, no, it's Mike's fault. He called
Speaker 2: her from Rikers and told her that he was going
Speaker 2: to kill himself, and Virginia's like, but he's not dead,
Speaker 2: is he. So she screams about taking Cora home, and
Speaker 2: the doctor says, I don't think that's a good idea,
Speaker 2: and in all her chunky highlight glory, she's like, fuck you,
Speaker 2: I don't care about any of you.
Speaker 4: She's coming home with me.
Speaker 2: And by the way, the mom is played by Veronica Cartwright,
Speaker 2: who has been working since nineteen fifty eight, Like, still working,
Speaker 2: still doing jobs, she has one hundred and fifty four
Speaker 2: credits and like, still passionate and making shit like it's
Speaker 2: in gatible. What a career invasion of the body snatchers
Speaker 2: and birds that's iconic the birds.
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, yeah, she's an icon.
Speaker 2: So we're now with the This was obviously maybe a
Speaker 2: Neil Bear moment. Well I don't know, but so we're
Speaker 2: now at the giant gray stone columns on the outside
Speaker 2: of the courthouse that makes every one seems so small
Speaker 2: and tiny, and it's Benson filling Casey and on the
Speaker 2: events that took place. Then a man in a trench
Speaker 2: coat runs after her, saying that Judge John Ley wants
Speaker 2: to see her in her chambers. Now, oh fuck this motherfucker.
Speaker 2: Dean Kane, through Minerva, is saying that he wants to
Speaker 2: get her feeding tube removed, and Casey is stunned, but
Speaker 2: he has every right as her husband. So the lawyers
Speaker 2: do some verbal punching, and then Donnelly is like, I'll
Speaker 2: hear from you why you want to do this, and
Speaker 2: he says that he spoke to Cora's a neurosurgeon and
Speaker 2: she has no chance of recovery and he can't let
Speaker 2: her suffer. And Casey says, don't let him do this.
Speaker 2: Donnelly says, I have no choice as her husband. He
Speaker 2: is next of kin and that's that.
Speaker 4: She says.
Speaker 2: I know it will be hard for the mother to understand,
Speaker 2: but it is what it is. And back at the priestinct,
Speaker 2: stablers selling Casey, Wow, the rapist has more rights than
Speaker 2: the mother. Sucks, but it's true today, It's true all
Speaker 2: the time. Constantly, rapists have more rights than full women
Speaker 2: that are pregnant. So I don't know a rapist can
Speaker 2: sue the rape victims for custody of unwanted fetuses like
Speaker 2: it is fucking twisted the world we're living in. Obviously
Speaker 2: in a side has nothing to do with this episode,
Speaker 2: but rapists, why I don't get no rights please?
Speaker 4: Saylor says, it's all about control.
Speaker 2: Then Benson peeps up he's the wrong person but making
Speaker 2: the right decision, and Casey judges her. Benson says she
Speaker 2: deserves to die with dignity. Stablor says, yeah, but the
Speaker 2: mom wants her alive. And there's just like a lot
Speaker 2: of twists concerns, and Munch says, none of this matters.
Speaker 2: It's not up to us to decide who lives and dies, Like, sure,
Speaker 2: disconnect her and then what who's next? Paraplegics and the
Speaker 2: mentally challenged, And it's like, okay, okay, no one stop
Speaker 2: doing slippery slope stuff.
Speaker 4: Okay.
Speaker 2: Now he's bringing up the Nazis and Casey says, I
Speaker 2: gotta follow the law, which is not a great response
Speaker 2: after the Nazis are brought up, you know what I mean, Like,
Speaker 2: don't talk about following orders, right. Stabler's like, let's just
Speaker 2: go to her mother and see if she has any
Speaker 2: evidence or understanding of what Cora would have wanted. Casey
Speaker 2: goes to talk to Virginia, who's sitting next to Cora,
Speaker 2: saying how her daughter is into Quitter and even though
Speaker 2: they've never spoken about it, she knows her daughter.
Speaker 4: How do I stop Mike?
Speaker 2: And she says, file an appeal, But even Virginia knows
Speaker 2: that the law, like the judges, aren't going to be
Speaker 2: on her side. So Casey Sneaky Sneaky says there are
Speaker 2: other ways to get people to listen. So it cuts
Speaker 2: to her boss throwing a newspaper on her desk, saying
Speaker 2: what the hell were you thinking? Which is a good impression.
Speaker 2: I think what is his name, Fred Thompson? Frank Thompson,
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, Fred Thompson.
Speaker 4: Yeah. So the newspaper, it's a picture of what just
Speaker 4: say it say?
Speaker 2: It's a picture of Cora and the headline says mom
Speaker 2: to rapist, don't kill my baby.
Speaker 4: Is that well?
Speaker 1: In your notes it says don't kill me baby, And
Speaker 1: so I was just laughing.
Speaker 4: It's like, don't kill me baby, so spaking.
Speaker 2: He's like, you told her to do that? Why would
Speaker 2: you involve yourself in this mess? And she says, you
Speaker 2: taught me to speak for the victims. So it's actually
Speaker 2: your fault. Bye, and he says, no crime, victims, there
Speaker 2: is no crime, but Casey doesn't believe that, and Mike
Speaker 2: is a con man and a lunatic. And now they
Speaker 2: go and they turn on New York One, which is exciting.
Speaker 2: Shout out to her friend Allison Libby, and there was
Speaker 2: a protest with lots of signs, and she's like, this
Speaker 2: rapist is trying to kill my daughter. Please help. And
Speaker 2: they're at the hospital doing a walk and talk and
Speaker 2: Casey's trying to save her ass. And Virginia's excited because
Speaker 2: like a bunch of lawyers have reached out and are
Speaker 2: willing to help her.
Speaker 4: But oh no.
Speaker 2: They go into the room and Mike is in there
Speaker 2: with Minerva and the judge authorized this visit. This is hell.
Speaker 2: He says, I love Cora and she would not want
Speaker 2: to live like this. I've lived with her and you
Speaker 2: haven't called her once. And she says it's him who
Speaker 2: pulled them apart, and she starts to cry. Casey looks
Speaker 2: as Minerva, like, why don't you tell me he would
Speaker 2: be here? And she says, he doesn't need your permission
Speaker 2: to visit his wife, and she's right, but what a bitch,
Speaker 2: like Minerva is a bitch.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I guess I would hire her if I need
Speaker 4: a bitch. Yeah.
Speaker 2: Doc comes in with a judge and like paperwork, saying
Speaker 2: that she is granting an emergency hearing for the mother's sake,
Speaker 2: so let's see if we can work this shit out.
Speaker 2: Dean Kane is on the stand and he said that
Speaker 2: they had a conversation about her wants and like what
Speaker 2: her decision would be, and they panned a Virginia in
Speaker 2: court listening to him speak, and she has disdain on
Speaker 2: her face, a golden cross on her chest, and a
Speaker 2: lawyer with a bow tie and a pocket square. He
Speaker 2: says that one night last summer, they were driving back
Speaker 2: from the beach and there was a terrible accident in
Speaker 2: front of them, and a drunk driver ran a stop
Speaker 2: sign and hit a couple in a convertible, and he
Speaker 2: told Cora to call nine one one, and he ran
Speaker 2: over to help, and the man was dead and the
Speaker 2: girlfriend had severe head trauma and he was covered in
Speaker 2: her blood and helping clear the airways, and Cora cried
Speaker 2: and asked if the girl's going to make it and
Speaker 2: if she would be a vegetable and Cora responded, Mike
Speaker 2: promised me, you will never let me live like that.
Speaker 2: Virginia stands up and calls him a liar. She would
Speaker 2: never have said that. And then she gets to do
Speaker 2: a dream and scream, you master, so love that, love it.
Speaker 2: The judge wants her to behave but she doesn't, and
Speaker 2: she's crying and so upset and distraw and confused how
Speaker 2: this is happening, And now it's time for the ruling.
Speaker 2: Donnelly says, pull the plug, remove the tube. Virginia cries.
Speaker 2: Mike has no emotion. They're at the hospital, and then
Speaker 2: Benson lowers herself and says thank you to Mike for
Speaker 2: letting her mother hold Cora's hand as she died peacefully,
Speaker 2: and he says, you're welcome. Then he says, now there's
Speaker 2: something you can do for me. Expedite the death certificate.
Speaker 2: Life insurance company is going to need that before they
Speaker 2: can process her claim. And Benson goes, oh, I fucking
Speaker 2: knew it. How much is the claim for? And he goes,
Speaker 2: it's for one point five million. He added her to
Speaker 2: the policy right after they got married. And it hits
Speaker 2: Benson like, oh my god, you were never going to
Speaker 2: kill yourself, but you knew that she would never want
Speaker 2: to live without you, And he says, that's a terrible
Speaker 2: thing to say to a grieving husband with a shitty,
Speaker 2: shitty grin, and he's smiling, and it's Minerva, you fucking
Speaker 2: dumb bitch. Are you proud of your And now it's
Speaker 2: funeral time and the thunder is growling, and Melinda is
Speaker 2: with the mother of Virginia and lets her know that
Speaker 2: the autops she showed that the brain damage was irreversible
Speaker 2: and there was no hope. And then more information comes in.
Speaker 2: Benson found a newspaper article about the car accident, and
Speaker 2: Cora is quoted that she would never want to live
Speaker 2: like that, so hopefully it gives her a little bit
Speaker 2: more piece of what happened, but it is very sad.
Speaker 2: She cries and walks off to the front seat of
Speaker 2: the hearst and you know, sounds of rain and that's
Speaker 2: dick wolf, baby.
Speaker 1: And why don't we ever find out if he gets
Speaker 1: if he gets convicted for rape, I want to know.
Speaker 1: I want him to like never be able to spend
Speaker 1: this one point five million dollar policy.
Speaker 2: But if he gets the policy, can it just be
Speaker 2: in his commissary.
Speaker 4: I don't know. I don't really know how that works.
Speaker 2: Because I'm sure he's trying to avoid not getting raped
Speaker 2: in jail because he is Dean Kane.
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, this is uh partially based on a case
Speaker 1: that we're gonna get to as soon as we get
Speaker 1: back from these brief messages.
Speaker 2: Kara, I'm really excited about this because this is like
Speaker 2: a cultural touchstone.
Speaker 4: I remember the news.
Speaker 2: I remember the twenty twenties in the day or whatever,
Speaker 2: like this was such a thing, but I don't remember
Speaker 2: any details or anything about it.
Speaker 1: So I feel like very excited to be informed. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean that's okay. That's what I was literally gonna
Speaker 1: start out saying, like you were like a teen when
Speaker 1: this was going down, like I was in my late
Speaker 1: teens early twenties, and like I even was kind of like, wait,
Speaker 1: what's going on?
Speaker 4: Like I didn't really it.
Speaker 1: Was just such a huge case, and I feel like
Speaker 1: there was like it was a big like late night joke, right.
Speaker 1: This episode is partially based on the Terry Shibo case,
Speaker 1: which came into the public eye in the early two thousands,
Speaker 1: and it was constantly in the news.
Speaker 4: It was like a late night punchline.
Speaker 1: It was like a very big water cooler topic because
Speaker 1: it touched on religious shit, it touched on political shit,
Speaker 1: and it was like a landmark case in the whole
Speaker 1: right to die debate, which if you like ever heard
Speaker 1: of doctor Kovorkian, that was like a huge thing of
Speaker 1: are people allowed to choose when they want to die?
Speaker 1: Or when do we how do we decide who lives
Speaker 1: and dies based on the quality of their life, if
Speaker 1: they're a vegetable and et cetera, et cetera. So what
Speaker 1: happened in this case was Terry Shivo was a twenty
Speaker 1: six year old woman who actually grew up struggling with
Speaker 1: her weight, and she was very overweight at one point,
Speaker 1: and she eventually lost one hundred pounds, and then it
Speaker 1: sounded like she struggled with keeping the weight off like
Speaker 1: for like most of her adult life, and that was
Speaker 1: like a dieting was a part of her life. So
Speaker 1: in February of nineteen ninety, Terry collapsed in a hallway
Speaker 1: of her Saint Petersburg, Florida apartment. Her husband called nine
Speaker 1: one one, and that when the first responders got there,
Speaker 1: she was unconscious, not breathing, with no pulse they attempted
Speaker 1: to resuscitate her.
Speaker 4: She was transported to the hospital.
Speaker 1: Paramedics had intubated her and ventilated her, so she's breathing
Speaker 1: with help at this point, and the cause of the
Speaker 1: collapse was determined as cardiac arrest, and in her chart
Speaker 1: it was noted that she was trying to keep her
Speaker 1: weight down by drinking mostly liquids in the daytime and
Speaker 1: that she was drinking about ten to fifteen glasses of
Speaker 1: ice tea a day.
Speaker 4: I don't know if that's accurate. That's what I read.
Speaker 1: And then she also had low potassium, which is hypokalemia,
Speaker 1: and apparently electrolyte imbalance is often caused by drinking excessive fluids,
Speaker 1: and a serious consequence of hypocalemia can be heart rhythm abnormalities,
Speaker 1: including sudden arrhythmia death syndrome, and there.
Speaker 4: Had been I can get it. I'm gonna get.
Speaker 1: Into it later, but there was also talk that she
Speaker 1: was suffering from an eating disorder bolimia, which ties into
Speaker 1: the episode as well, but ultimately there was no definitive
Speaker 1: cause linked to the cardiac arrest, so they do not
Speaker 1: know what caused it. And approximately one year after this
Speaker 1: initial health event, the doctors diagnosed her as being in
Speaker 1: a persistent vegetative state, which is abbreviated a lot as PVS,
Speaker 1: and that it was irreversible. So she could breathe on
Speaker 1: her own, and she could open her eyes and move
Speaker 1: her eyes, but she was not capable of thought or emotion,
Speaker 1: and she was not seeing anything, like even if she
Speaker 1: moved her eyes, she was not seeing anything.
Speaker 4: So meanwhile, in that.
Speaker 1: Year, like her husband Michael like really attended to her
Speaker 1: and he began studying nursing actually at Saint Petersburg Community College,
Speaker 1: so that he could care for her better, like and
Speaker 1: he eventually became a respiratory therapist and an er nurse.
Speaker 1: So in ninety two, this is just interesting because this
Speaker 1: brings into the bolima of it a little bit, Michael
Speaker 1: filed a malpractice suit against Terry's guynecologist on the basis
Speaker 1: that he had failed to diagnose bolimia as a possible
Speaker 1: cause of her infertility. Like she had gone to a
Speaker 1: doctor because she had stopped having her period, and the
Speaker 1: doctor had failed to take her entire medical history into
Speaker 1: account and that might have revealed her eating disorder.
Speaker 2: But like, how I mean, I'm sure people with these
Speaker 2: disorders are like really good at hiding it.
Speaker 4: But what kind of husband are you?
Speaker 2: You don't notice that your wife's not eating at all
Speaker 2: and drinking fifteen glasses of iced tea a day?
Speaker 4: What'd you think was going on? I know?
Speaker 1: But also he it's like there's all this back and
Speaker 1: forth in a lot of the stuff I was reading
Speaker 1: where some people were like, none of her friends knew
Speaker 1: she had an eating disorder, and then one case said,
Speaker 1: oh no, one of her friends did know and testified
Speaker 1: that she did know.
Speaker 4: But in this case, this.
Speaker 1: Malpractice suit, he did win millions of dollars, Like originally
Speaker 1: I think he was awarded six or seven million, but
Speaker 1: then they brought the judgment down to two million, and
Speaker 1: so after all his attorney's fees and everything, he got
Speaker 1: three hundred thousand, and then seven hundred and fifty thousand
Speaker 1: was put into a trust for Terry's medical care. So
Speaker 1: that's just like a little background on that side lawsuit.
Speaker 1: But so here's what happened. Nineteen ninety she has this
Speaker 1: cardiac event. Ninety one, she's declared in a persistent vegetative state.
Speaker 1: Not until nineteen ninety eight, Michael Schaivoh, her husband, and
Speaker 1: legal guardian petitions to have her feeding tuber moved. Her parents,
Speaker 1: Bob and Mary Schindler, are very opposed to this, and
Speaker 1: then it becomes this whole thing where Michael stood to
Speaker 1: inherit Terry's assets. Nothing's clear about whether she had a
Speaker 1: lot of assets, but if he would just divorce her,
Speaker 1: which her parents wanted him to do, they would be
Speaker 1: the beneficiary.
Speaker 4: So it almost feels.
Speaker 1: Like people were like, well, who is everybody doing this
Speaker 1: for the right reasons?
Speaker 4: Or like why are people doing this? She had no
Speaker 4: living will?
Speaker 2: Well she also I'm sorry, but he won all this
Speaker 2: money and dedicated the majority of it to her medical care.
Speaker 2: If he wanted just money, he would have kept all
Speaker 2: the money.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and maybe bounced after that lawsuit too. Yeah, like
Speaker 1: totally totally, Like I don't see.
Speaker 2: I think he's an idiot for not maybe realizing his
Speaker 2: wife was never eating or puking constantly, But like, it
Speaker 2: doesn't I don't know any of this, but it does
Speaker 2: if he gave all that money to her care, I
Speaker 2: can't imagine I'm trying to use her death to get money.
Speaker 1: Well, and the other thing is it's like, yeah, it
Speaker 1: doesn't really seem like she had, uh, you know, one
Speaker 1: point five million dollars like in the episode or something like.
Speaker 1: It didn't really they were living in Saint Petersburg, Florida.
Speaker 1: I don't think they were super super wealthy people, so
Speaker 1: I don't really know what he stood to inherit and
Speaker 1: he basically claimed, I know my wife would not have
Speaker 1: wanted to live like this, and I'm staying married to
Speaker 1: her to carry out her wishes, like that's why I'm
Speaker 1: doing this because for him, well, we'll get into it later.
Speaker 1: So around the same time as he's filing for this
Speaker 1: feeding tube to be removed, the Shindler's become aware of
Speaker 1: a bone scan report that was performed in nineteen ninety one,
Speaker 1: and they, along with this guy doctor William Hamsfar who
Speaker 1: throughout this kind of seems like a little bit like
Speaker 1: a quack, they claim that the trauma shown in the
Speaker 1: bone scan was a result of Terry being abused by Michael,
Speaker 1: and the plot gave well, yeah, So they give the
Speaker 1: scan information to forensic pathologist and superhero to Lisa and Kara,
Speaker 1: doctor Michael Bodden, and he suggests, oh, yes, a head
Speaker 1: injury caused the trauma.
Speaker 4: But then doctor Michael Botten. They give him.
Speaker 1: Terry's full history and he's like, oh, never mind. I
Speaker 1: agree that the trauma is consistent with a cardiac arrest,
Speaker 1: a fall and then CPR attempts and resuscitation like never mind.
Speaker 1: So I just wanted to mention this because doctor Michael
Speaker 1: Bodden is tangentially very involved. So essentially this is what
Speaker 1: starts up in the press that Michael Chaivo didn't call
Speaker 1: nine one one right away he was abusing her, like
Speaker 1: this is about him controlling her. There's truly, like not
Speaker 1: a lot of evidence to support that. I know that's
Speaker 1: very svuification of it, but this man called nine to
Speaker 1: one the minutey founder like it was not besides what
Speaker 1: you said that maybe he didn't notice that she was
Speaker 1: struggling with some eating issues, Like it doesn't really, I
Speaker 1: don't think he did anything to harm her and cause
Speaker 1: this cardiac event. So in two thousand, after two years
Speaker 1: of after he's said he wants to remove the feeding tube,
Speaker 1: there's a trial that takes place to determine Terry's end
Speaker 1: of life wishes. Michael argues that she would not want
Speaker 1: to be kept alive with a machine with almost zero
Speaker 1: chance of recovery. And her parents, on the other hand,
Speaker 1: claimed that she was a devout Catholic who would never
Speaker 1: go against the church's policy on euthanasia. And that's just
Speaker 1: like the story of Catholicism is like every parent thinks
Speaker 1: their kid is like a perfect Catholic and they're not.
Speaker 1: And so the judge ruled that Terry was in a
Speaker 1: persistent vegetative state and that she had made reliable oral
Speaker 1: declarations that she would not want to live like that
Speaker 1: and that she would want the feeding tube removed. So
Speaker 1: in two thousand, the Shindlers tried to challenge Michael's guardianship.
Speaker 1: And so at this point, she's been in a persistent
Speaker 1: vegetative stafe for a decade. Okay, Michael has a new
Speaker 1: partner at this point and has fathered a child with her,
Speaker 1: but he will not divorce Terry because he wants to
Speaker 1: make sure that her final wishes are carried out to me.
Speaker 1: I don't see what he's gaining, especially after like he
Speaker 1: gets this small three hundred thousand dollars settlement in ninety two,
Speaker 1: you know, and that has to do with the infertility issue,
Speaker 1: which you could argue that that affected him as well,
Speaker 1: because they were unable to procreate to the other and
Speaker 1: that doctor misdiagnosed or whatever. So the Schindlers lost their
Speaker 1: challenge to the guardianship and Michael retained the guardianship and
Speaker 1: the feeding tube was set to be removed in April
Speaker 1: of two thousand and one. So then it was removed
Speaker 1: on four to twenty four, and then the Schindlers filed
Speaker 1: a suit against Michael and a judge issued an injunction
Speaker 1: against removal of so until it was all settled.
Speaker 4: The tube was put back.
Speaker 1: In on April twenty six, so she was two days
Speaker 1: without the tube and then it was put back in
Speaker 1: then in August of two thousand and one.
Speaker 4: Later that year, Judge Greer, who we're going to hear
Speaker 4: about a lot.
Speaker 1: He is like the main judge in this and he's
Speaker 1: like a circuit court judge in Florida. Judge Greer heard
Speaker 1: a motion in August of two thousand and one that
Speaker 1: the Shindlers were claiming that new medical treatment could restore
Speaker 1: sufficient cognitive ability so that Terry might be able to
Speaker 1: actually participate in her continued life prolonging measures and decide
Speaker 1: about what she wanted to do herself. And the court
Speaker 1: also motions heard motions from the Shindlers to remove Michael
Speaker 1: as the guardian and emotion for Judge Greer to recuse himself.
Speaker 1: Very s for you like, they made these motions right
Speaker 1: to the judge. Very Judge Oliver Taft he denied all the emotions,
Speaker 1: and they appealed. This is like the whole cycle of
Speaker 1: this is just motion appeal, motion appeal. The Court of
Speaker 1: Appeals remanded the question of Terry's wishes back to the
Speaker 1: trial court and required an evidentiary hearing be held about
Speaker 1: this new you know, technology that could help her live
Speaker 1: better or this new medical treatment. So the court specified
Speaker 1: that five board certified neurologists were to testify, and the
Speaker 1: Shindlers were allowed to choose two of those doctors to
Speaker 1: present their findings at the EVIDENTI You're hearing, and then
Speaker 1: Michael Schaiveo could introduce two rebuttal experts. And then finally
Speaker 1: the court itself would appoint a new independent physician to
Speaker 1: examine and evaluate all of Terry's conditions. So now we're
Speaker 1: at two thousand and two, the evidential your hearing has happened,
Speaker 1: and to determine whether these new therapy treatments would work,
Speaker 1: a new cat scan was done and showed severe cerebral
Speaker 1: atrophy and the EG showed no measurable brain activity. And
Speaker 1: then these five physicians there was William Maxfield, a radiologist,
Speaker 1: and then four neurologists. One is William Ham's far who
Speaker 1: obviously the parents chose, Ronald Cranford, Melvin Greer no relation,
Speaker 1: and Peter bimbucketis Cranford, Greer and Ben bocadists all testified
Speaker 1: that she was in a persistent veget vegetative state, while
Speaker 1: Maxfield and Hamspar said she was in a minimally conscious state.
Speaker 4: So I don't know, I mean, there seems like it's semantics.
Speaker 1: At this point in this trial, a six hour medical
Speaker 1: exam of Terry was taped and the judge was like,
Speaker 1: this is very clear that she's not responding, like she
Speaker 1: looks inert most of the time, she's just staring there.
Speaker 1: But her parents took the six hours of footage and
Speaker 1: they cut together six minutes of clips of like Terry's
Speaker 1: eyes moving, what they said was following a balloon, or
Speaker 1: like her smiling at her mother, which everyone which doctors
Speaker 1: are like, that's just a response, Like that's just like
Speaker 1: an automatic response, Like she's not fo. She can't see
Speaker 1: the Mickey Mouse balloon with her eyes, and these clips
Speaker 1: went like not. I mean, I'm using the word viral
Speaker 1: just because that's like the easiest way to explain it.
Speaker 1: I don't know if it was like Internet or not,
Speaker 1: but it was definitely. This was like a turning point
Speaker 1: in the case, these six minutes of clips of Terry
Speaker 1: where people are like, oh, no, look, that's a person
Speaker 1: who's alive. Her eyes are open, she breathes on her own,
Speaker 1: she can follow things with her eyes, and it's like
Speaker 1: it was very misleading. The clips that they put out
Speaker 1: were very misleading because it's six minutes above six hours.
Speaker 1: It's out of context, like in six hours she's not
Speaker 1: doing anything, you know, and like you're putting together this
Speaker 1: clip like this is an average day for her, and
Speaker 1: that's not correct. So yeah, at this point, again, she's
Speaker 1: been doing these same her husband said, she's been doing
Speaker 1: those same little movements for over a decade with no improvement.
Speaker 1: And the ruling in this case still upheld that Terry
Speaker 1: was in a persistent vegetative state and that her feeding
Speaker 1: tube could be removed. So on October fifteenth of two
Speaker 1: thousand and three, her feeding tube was removed for a
Speaker 1: second time.
Speaker 4: Within a week.
Speaker 1: When the Schindler's final appeal was exhausted, State Representative at
Speaker 1: Frank Atkinson of Florida and the Florida Legislature passed Terry's
Speaker 1: Law in an emergency session, which gave Governor Jeb Bush
Speaker 1: the authority to intervene in the case. Okay, and the
Speaker 1: New York Times put it out, something I thought was
Speaker 1: very interesting that when they're ever they're making these laws
Speaker 1: that are based on people. If it's about a woman,
Speaker 1: they'll give it the woman's first name or like a
Speaker 1: little cute nickname, like her name was Teresa, but they
Speaker 1: give it the name Terry. But when it's a man,
Speaker 1: it's always the last name. Like the man gets a
Speaker 1: little bit more dignity with their law. Like the law
Speaker 1: about of it's like Bill Brady, it's called the Brady bill, right,
Speaker 1: it's not called the Bill Bill or like the Jim
Speaker 1: I think his name's Jim Brady. Actually, excuse me. But
Speaker 1: like for women, it's always like Terry's law, Sarah's law, whatever,
Speaker 1: or for women and kids. So it's interesting anyway. Governor
Speaker 1: Bush immediately ordered the feeding tube reinserted and he sent
Speaker 1: the Florida Department of Law Enforcement to remove Chivo from hospice.
Speaker 1: She was taken to a rehab center in Clearwater, where
Speaker 1: her feeding tube was surgically put back in, and then
Speaker 1: she was returned to hospice, and USA Today reported that
Speaker 1: Governor Bush said the judge's decision quote unquote breaks my
Speaker 1: heart and noted that it often takes two decades for
Speaker 1: a death row inmates appeals to go through the system.
Speaker 4: Quote there's this rush to starve her to death end quote.
Speaker 1: Bush said, And it's like, I just don't understand when
Speaker 1: he's saying a rush like this man did not have
Speaker 1: file to have the feeding tube removed until she had
Speaker 1: been in a vegetable for a decade.
Speaker 4: So it's like we already know that Jeb Bush is
Speaker 4: kind of a moron. I mean, he is the police
Speaker 4: clap guy.
Speaker 1: So it's just crazy that everyone's like, well, she's only
Speaker 1: been in this coma for ten years, what a rush
Speaker 1: to starve her to death? And that's also not They're
Speaker 1: not trying to starve her to death. I think they're
Speaker 1: trying to let her die humanly. But Michael Shaivo opposed
Speaker 1: the governor's move obviously, and he was represented by the ACLU.
Speaker 1: So on May fifth, two thousand and four, a judge
Speaker 1: ruled that Terry's law was unconstitutional and struck it down.
Speaker 1: And this was another reason, huge reason why people were
Speaker 1: getting involved in this conversation because it's like what we
Speaker 1: talked about with Jody Hicks a little bit. Republicans are
Speaker 1: all about get out of my life, like small government,
Speaker 1: don't let the government control. You have so many so
Speaker 1: that if the government tries to take over, we can
Speaker 1: fight back.
Speaker 4: And then they think they can like get involved in
Speaker 4: people's decisions about their life or about their reproductive rights
Speaker 4: and things like that. It's just so the cognitive dissonance
Speaker 4: is really really wild, and so there was a lot
Speaker 4: of talk in this is like did the government go
Speaker 4: too far? Like should they be getting involved in this?
Speaker 1: And I mean my opinion is no, but yeah, they
Speaker 1: struck down the law and then Governor Bush appealed this,
Speaker 1: but the Florida State Supreme Law Court overturned the law
Speaker 1: as unconstitutional, so he had no more recourse.
Speaker 4: So poor Jeb Bush had to just like walk away
Speaker 4: with this one.
Speaker 2: And him pretending the care I'm like trying to think,
Speaker 2: ye what reason this is, like it's.
Speaker 4: So political, fully political.
Speaker 1: There was something called like the Shaivo memo that wasn't
Speaker 1: about Jeb Bush, but it was about a different politician,
Speaker 1: and it was like essentially saying, the Terry Schibo case
Speaker 1: is a great way to like ramp up our base
Speaker 1: and get like Republican vote people to vote Republicans. So
Speaker 1: fully being used as a political pawn this woman. So
Speaker 1: in January of two thousand and five, now the Federal
Speaker 1: Supreme like the US Supreme Court, refuses to hear this case.
Speaker 4: And then the next month the.
Speaker 1: Shindlers try again to have the removal stopped so they
Speaker 1: can try this new swallowing therapy. Terry is unable to swallow.
Speaker 1: It's been years determined that she cannot swallow and feed
Speaker 1: herself on her own, because her parents have been trying
Speaker 1: this whole time to say, okay, if you remove her
Speaker 1: feeding tube, can we feed her? And it's like she
Speaker 1: cannot swallow, like that will not help her condition. So
Speaker 1: Judge Greer formally denied the motion and ordered the two
Speaker 1: removal again Friday March eighteenth, my twin brother's birthday, two
Speaker 1: thousand and five, and then there was a media tycoon
Speaker 1: named Robert Herring. I don't know who this guy is,
Speaker 1: but he offered a million dollars to Michael Schaibo if
Speaker 1: he agreed to waive his guardianship over Terry and give
Speaker 1: it to the parents, and he declines. He could have
Speaker 1: walked away with the money and just been like, I'm
Speaker 1: a bad guy, bye, but like, I'm going to take
Speaker 1: this money and go live with my family and start
Speaker 1: my life again, because at this point I think he
Speaker 1: has two kids with his new partner, and he doesn't.
Speaker 1: He declines because it is important to him for his
Speaker 1: wife to have her final wishes as he saw them,
Speaker 1: be fulfilled. So the parents keep filing appeals asking if
Speaker 1: they could try to feed her by mouth. I like,
Speaker 1: as I said, will not work. And now the president
Speaker 1: is involved.
Speaker 4: George W.
Speaker 1: Bush and the Republicans are in Congress trying to figure
Speaker 1: out a way to overturn this judge's ruling. And so
Speaker 1: right after Greer orders the tube removal for March of
Speaker 1: two thousand and five, Republicans in the United States Congress
Speaker 1: subpoenat Michael and Terry Schaibo to testify as a Congressional hearing.
Speaker 1: So obviously you're thinking, this woman is vegetative, how is
Speaker 1: she going to testify? It doesn't matter. No one thinks
Speaker 1: she's going to testify. But by calling her to testify,
Speaker 1: they make her a witness, and that affords her witness protection,
Speaker 1: and that would allow for reinsertion of her feeding tube
Speaker 1: so that she can be alive until she's able to testify.
Speaker 1: Crazy the little hoops these guys are jumping through. And
Speaker 1: so on March twentieth, two thousand and five, so at
Speaker 1: this point, they removed her feeding tube on March eighteenth,
Speaker 1: So now it's March twentieth. It's two days later, and
Speaker 1: the Senate, by unanimous consent, pass their version of a
Speaker 1: relief bill. And after the Senate approval, the House of
Speaker 1: Representatives passed an identical version of this bill, which became
Speaker 1: known as the Palm Sunday Compromise, and they transferred jurisdiction
Speaker 1: of the Shibo case to the federal courts, which would
Speaker 1: take it out of Judge Greer's hands and put it
Speaker 1: in the hands.
Speaker 4: Of federal courts.
Speaker 1: And then the bill was passed at twelve forty one
Speaker 1: in the morning on March twenty first, and George W.
Speaker 4: Bush flew to Washington, d C.
Speaker 1: From a vacation in Texas to sign the bill into
Speaker 1: order at one am in that morning. So it was
Speaker 1: like a big rush because I think they're trying to
Speaker 1: save her because now she's been two days without.
Speaker 2: Her feeding to why can't they put this much effort
Speaker 2: into anything that truly can help humanity? This is so
Speaker 2: confusing to me, I know, do you remember the public opinion.
Speaker 1: Was it really split? I think it was really split.
Speaker 1: I think it was really split. But I think that,
Speaker 1: you know, obviously the media stuff, it's like if you
Speaker 1: see people saw, oh, why can't her parents just keep
Speaker 1: her alive if they want to keep her alive, And well,
Speaker 1: he's saying that's not her wish, that she did not
Speaker 1: want that, you know. So I remember people talking about
Speaker 1: that like, well, if he doesn't want to keep her alive,
Speaker 1: then just divorce her.
Speaker 4: Let her parents keep her alive, you know.
Speaker 1: And he really felt like this is not humane and
Speaker 1: not what the right thing was.
Speaker 4: And then that's that whole argument, like what is what
Speaker 4: is humane?
Speaker 1: So now it's March twenty fourth, she's been off the
Speaker 1: feeding tube for six days. Judge Greer denied a petition
Speaker 1: for intervention by the Florida Department of Children and Families
Speaker 1: DCF and signed an order forbidding the department from taking
Speaker 1: possession of Terry or removing her from hospice, and he
Speaker 1: directed each and every single sheriff on the in the
Speaker 1: state of Florida to enforce his order. So he denied
Speaker 1: this petition from DCF, and then the order was appealed
Speaker 1: to the Second District Court of Appeals the following day,
Speaker 1: which resulted in an automatic stay under state law. So
Speaker 1: while the stay was in effect, the Florida Department of
Speaker 1: Law Enforcement was preparing to take custody of Terry and
Speaker 1: transfer her to a local hospital to have the two
Speaker 1: put back in but when Greer found out about the stay,
Speaker 1: he ordered it lifted. All parties stood down. Governor Bush
Speaker 1: decided to obey the order despite enormous pressure from the
Speaker 1: right and because he knew that if he had ignored
Speaker 1: Greer's order and attempted to remove her from the hospice,
Speaker 1: there would have been a confrontation between the Panelis Park
Speaker 1: Police Department and the FDL agents like there would have
Speaker 1: just been. They both have orders from separate judge one
Speaker 1: from one has orders from the governor one has orders
Speaker 1: from a.
Speaker 4: Judge, they would have had a clash.
Speaker 1: So eventually, I believe about thirteen days after her feeding
Speaker 1: tube was removed, Terry Schivo did pass away at the
Speaker 1: Panelis Park Hospice March thirty first, two thousand and five,
Speaker 1: at the age of forty one, much like in the episode.
Speaker 1: The autopsy which happened on April first, and it revealed
Speaker 1: extensive brain damage. Her brain weighed half of what a
Speaker 1: woman's brain her age should weigh. The persistent vegetative state
Speaker 1: was completely confirmed. The medical Examiner John R. Thogmartin said
Speaker 1: there was actually proof of the bolimia. He said, but
Speaker 1: who's to say it could have been other extreme dieting
Speaker 1: or who knows?
Speaker 2: But also, like what evidence of bolimia hold for what
Speaker 2: fifteen years at this point?
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's true because usually it's like tooth decay and
Speaker 1: stuff like that. I don't know, I really don't know.
Speaker 1: At this point it's been fifteen years. I mean, this
Speaker 1: is why this is.
Speaker 2: I didn't realize how high up president flying around signing bills.
Speaker 1: This really was yeah, crazy, So Chief Medical Examiner thog
Speaker 1: Morton wrote in his autopsy quote missus Shivo suffered severe
Speaker 1: anoxic brain injury, the cause of which cannot be determined
Speaker 1: with reasonable medical certainty. The manner of death will therefore
Speaker 1: be certified as undetermined. So the cardiac arrest is the
Speaker 1: inciting health incident, but then her cause of death is
Speaker 1: kind of undetermined, even though it's like she just her
Speaker 1: body stopped functioning. And then on June twentieth, the cremated
Speaker 1: remains of Terry Schivo were buried. I don't really I
Speaker 1: know what's up with that, But apparently Michael Schaibo didn't
Speaker 1: even like tell her parents he was doing that, and
Speaker 1: the Shindler's attorney stated that the family was notified by
Speaker 1: facts only after the memorial service had happened and they
Speaker 1: had already started getting calls from reporters. So I think
Speaker 1: that they just had had so much animosity over the
Speaker 1: back and forth of this for years and years. But yeah,
Speaker 1: it's interesting. Like I was young and like kind of
Speaker 1: paying attention to news and kind of not I don't
Speaker 1: remember what like the public sentiment was around me, but
Speaker 1: I remember thinking like, yeah, I wouldn't want to live
Speaker 1: like that, you know, I wouldn't want to be in
Speaker 1: a persistive vegetative state, with like multiple doctors saying that
Speaker 1: this is some of the worst brain damage they'd ever
Speaker 1: seen and saying there's zero chance of ever coming back.
Speaker 1: You know, I think a lot of people when there's
Speaker 1: like a coma, a lot of people want to believe
Speaker 1: in like a miracle, and people have woken up out
Speaker 1: of comas. But persistive vegetative state, I think is like,
Speaker 1: you're pretty far gone.
Speaker 4: And I don't know.
Speaker 1: I don't know what her parents wanted to happen, Like
Speaker 1: I guess doctor said she could have lived another ten
Speaker 1: years on a feeding tube.
Speaker 2: I don't know for what to visit. Yeah, so you
Speaker 2: guys get to visit. These parents seem annoying as fuck,
Speaker 2: but I get it. Yeah, but he obviously cared for her.
Speaker 2: He could have had money throughout all of this time.
Speaker 2: He could have divorced her and been like, fuck off,
Speaker 2: I'm taking the million, Like I do trust him. I
Speaker 2: don't know, Yeah, I'm just what you've told me. Just like,
Speaker 2: look looking at the facts that I just heard. Fuck
Speaker 2: the Republican Party, and Michael seems like a good guy.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, this is like what I'm finding out later.
Speaker 1: I definitely think back in the day when it was
Speaker 1: a punchline on late night shows, it was definitely like
Speaker 1: there was something sinister about Michael Shaibo. People were like, ooh,
Speaker 1: he's trying to kill his wife, and it's like when
Speaker 1: you actually get the dates in front.
Speaker 4: Of you and you're like, no.
Speaker 1: He traveled with her to California to try to get
Speaker 1: experimental treatments done for her. In the first few years
Speaker 1: after it happened, like he was trying. It was like
Speaker 1: eight years went by and he was like, I think
Speaker 1: we're done, and then like it wasn't until two thousand
Speaker 1: that really, like the court cases started up, so like
Speaker 1: a decade of trying things and he was like, I
Speaker 1: don't think this is how she wanted to live, So
Speaker 1: I don't know that's the story, and that's you know,
Speaker 1: it's very clearly what they based the whole Chorus storyline on,
Speaker 1: with a lot more obviously svuification of it, with the
Speaker 1: guy being a rapist and having an insurance policy on her.
Speaker 1: But you know, she died in March of two thousand
Speaker 1: and five. This episode came out November of two thousand
Speaker 1: and five. Like, it's definitely connected, and I think it's
Speaker 1: like an interesting way that they weaved it in to
Speaker 1: the show because such such a huge topic that everyone
Speaker 1: was talking about.
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, well.
Speaker 1: I'm glad I could tell you about it, and now
Speaker 1: we have a really great guest.
Speaker 4: I'm excited about it.
Speaker 2: Well because I also, yeah, we obviously have a good guess.
Speaker 2: We always do not to be two cocky. But I
Speaker 2: wonder if the movie Kill Bill like changed people's minds
Speaker 2: or like if that kind of motivates people's decisions.
Speaker 4: You know, I still haven't seen it. I don't even
Speaker 4: know what you're talking aout. Oh I forgot, I forgot
Speaker 4: huge touch well, like is there a right to die issue?
Speaker 4: And kill Bill? I gotta watch it. I gotta watch it.
Speaker 4: You're about to kill me, all right, I would be
Speaker 4: happy to watch it with you.
Speaker 2: But yeah, enjoy our guests, everybody.
Speaker 4: Okay, guys, listen.
Speaker 1: I know that we use the word legend a lot
Speaker 1: on this podcast, but we just I don't know what
Speaker 1: to tell you. We just get a lot of legends
Speaker 1: who want to talk to us, and today is no exception.
Speaker 1: This actress has been working since she was a child
Speaker 1: in little films by directors, you know, new directors that
Speaker 1: maybe you've heard of Alfred Hitchcock. She was in the
Speaker 1: movie The Birds, The Children's Hour, and perhaps you've seen
Speaker 1: her in horror classics like Alien or Invasion of the
Speaker 1: Body Snatchers. Today, though you know her as beleaguered mother
Speaker 1: Virginia Kennison. Please enjoy and take in and absorb our
Speaker 1: conversation with the amazing Veronica Cartwright.
Speaker 2: Yay, Veronica, huge deal. This is a huge deal for us.
Speaker 4: Thank you.
Speaker 5: Well, you know it was funny because I looked it
Speaker 5: up on Hulu and I found it. I found the show,
Speaker 5: so I actually rewatched it again because there was so
Speaker 5: many years ago that I did it.
Speaker 4: Oh my gosh. Yeah.
Speaker 1: A lot of our guests today that they're like they
Speaker 1: they never watched it the first time.
Speaker 4: They came out because a lot of people hate.
Speaker 1: To watch themselves, and then they're like, we want they
Speaker 1: got to rewatch it for our podcast. So we hope
Speaker 1: you we gave you a nice trip down memory lane.
Speaker 5: Oh except what was I thinking? Was my hair?
Speaker 4: That's absolutly big for me.
Speaker 2: Our first question is chunky blonde highlights? Was it you
Speaker 2: or wardrobe?
Speaker 5: Oh? Now, you know it was the thing I went through.
Speaker 5: I don't know I got a lot of work that way.
Speaker 5: I think I have no idea what I was thinking
Speaker 5: is a little awful.
Speaker 1: I think I made you look kind of though, like
Speaker 1: a little bit like eccentric and probably made you stand down.
Speaker 4: Oh you know, it's probably was a smart idea for.
Speaker 2: Kelli was of the time. I had chunky highlights. You know,
Speaker 2: that was what we did.
Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean it was what was it two thousand
Speaker 5: and seven something like that. Yeah, yeah, So I guess
Speaker 5: it was just a thing that we did.
Speaker 2: I mean, and then while watching it, are there before
Speaker 2: we ask our questions? Were there any like memories or
Speaker 2: feelings that came to you while watching the episode?
Speaker 5: Well, the girl, the girl who plays my daughter, Tina Holmes,
Speaker 5: is a terrific actress, and so it was really great
Speaker 5: to work with her. And then a couple of years
Speaker 5: later she played my daughter in Cold Case as well,
Speaker 5: so it was like a reunion. And then I think
Speaker 5: I was blonde, just you know, change up.
Speaker 1: So I wonder if I saw your SVU and saw
Speaker 1: the mother daughter chemistry.
Speaker 5: I doubt I did that very much, but it was
Speaker 5: was I was gad I rewatched it because I hadn't
Speaker 5: realized it was actually a murder case that he had
Speaker 5: murdered my daughter, making her while she was anorexing and
Speaker 5: then of course having alcohol poisoning and going after her
Speaker 5: because of that, so him because of that. It was
Speaker 5: a very sad story.
Speaker 4: It's really really sad.
Speaker 2: It's sad to think that you can just meet or
Speaker 2: date or befriend one person and they can truly change
Speaker 2: your life for and for the worst forever.
Speaker 5: It's just absolutely because she totally loved him, and then
Speaker 5: and then he would just he was just he was
Speaker 5: a dog. Yeah, he really was awful his character, but
Speaker 5: he was a great, great guy to work with. Oh, Superman,
Speaker 5: but no, it was really an interesting twist, I thought so.
Speaker 5: And then he ended up of course being such a
Speaker 5: nasty person. Yeah, and and it was so.
Speaker 4: Cruel to her, and everyone's saw it, and she just
Speaker 4: could she didn't see it.
Speaker 5: Well, how many people do we know? You No, don't
Speaker 5: date this guy who's really not a cool guy. Oh
Speaker 5: but I love him. Well, tough shit, I mean.
Speaker 1: I know, and people so many people just don't heed
Speaker 1: their friends and families advice even though they're the people
Speaker 1: that know you the best.
Speaker 5: So it's I know, you know, you know you go
Speaker 5: with your heart.
Speaker 4: Yes, I guess a lot of people lead with their heart.
Speaker 2: One of the scenes that I was really curious about
Speaker 2: filming is when you are with Tina Holmes and she's
Speaker 2: on the respirator and she's like blinking but slowly.
Speaker 4: How was that filming with the blinking? Yeah? How was
Speaker 4: that filming? The hospital?
Speaker 5: Well, well, you do believe. I believe that when you
Speaker 5: see blinking, your first initial reaction would be that you
Speaker 5: would think that they were alive and breathing. And they
Speaker 5: are breathing, but they're on all of these tubes and
Speaker 5: stuff like that. But it's it must be very, very
Speaker 5: disconcerting to have to pull your kid off of, you know,
Speaker 5: life support when they look so normal.
Speaker 4: Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 5: A friend of mine's father went in for he broke
Speaker 5: his hip. He was ninety four, so, but he broke
Speaker 5: his hip totally with it. Guy. This is a guy
Speaker 5: that used to work out and everything, and he had
Speaker 5: a stroke apparently when he was under the anesthesia. But
Speaker 5: he was breathing by himself. His color was good, he
Speaker 5: looked totally like himself, and the doctor was screaming at him,
Speaker 5: and they'd go and they'd scream at him. To thinking
Speaker 5: maybe and he lived like that for a week. He
Speaker 5: wasn't not a ventilator or anything. He was just he
Speaker 5: must have just decided, Okay, now it's time to go.
Speaker 5: But I mean to see somebody have the color in
Speaker 5: their face and like what you're saying, you know they're alive.
Speaker 5: And it's weird when.
Speaker 2: You were doing the scenes where you got emotional cry
Speaker 2: the tears, were you thinking of this case or do
Speaker 2: you go to or like, yeah, are you within the character?
Speaker 4: Do you have to think of your own personal kind
Speaker 4: of Oh.
Speaker 5: God, no motivation. No. I actually learned a long time
Speaker 5: ago when I did the bird watching, just like a
Speaker 5: handy work and being drug around the house with the
Speaker 5: birds flying down. And you know what, if you just
Speaker 5: lived in the situation and make it real. I mean,
Speaker 5: how many times can you think of a dead dog?
Speaker 5: I mean, it just doesn't work. You've got to listen,
Speaker 5: you know, you have to listen to what the other
Speaker 5: character's saying and live in the moment.
Speaker 1: I just find it so impressive when you can do
Speaker 1: like that restrained crying, Like I bet I could get
Speaker 1: myself to cry, but I'd probably just work myself up.
Speaker 1: But you just like when they tell you, hey, it
Speaker 1: turns out he wasn't lying. She did say she didn't
Speaker 1: want to live in a vegetative state. You just have
Speaker 1: this one tear that pops out onto your cheek. It
Speaker 1: was like, really, really great work, Well.
Speaker 4: Thank you.
Speaker 1: I just don't know how you do this, like a
Speaker 1: strain thing where you let one little tear squeak out.
Speaker 5: Well, I didn't think of it as being but I
Speaker 5: was quite impressed with that too. No, it's so weird
Speaker 5: because I heard when I was like fifteen or sixteen
Speaker 5: years old that Catherine Hepburn used to be able to
Speaker 5: cry from one eye or the other eye, And I said,
Speaker 5: oh my god, how does she do that? And I
Speaker 5: would practice in front of the mirror, you know, And
Speaker 5: I guess it is that you could do a muscle thing.
Speaker 5: But it's just not the same as if you just
Speaker 5: are in the moment and you have to make it real.
Speaker 5: I mean, and if the person you're working with is there,
Speaker 5: I don't know. I just use the other person, yeah,
Speaker 5: and make it as real as I can for myself.
Speaker 5: And if you just listen and watch, it can be there.
Speaker 2: Have you ever, You don't have to name any names,
Speaker 2: but curious if you've ever been acting across from someone
Speaker 2: that's just not bringing it at the level that you
Speaker 2: would like them to be bringing.
Speaker 4: And how you deal with that?
Speaker 5: Well, what can you do? I mean, you can always
Speaker 5: find something you are getting from the other person. I
Speaker 5: think I have never been haven't happened to myself, though
Speaker 5: I do know that it has happened to people. I
Speaker 5: remember Richard dreyf was telling me that he was doing
Speaker 5: the same with that somebody just they were just not
Speaker 5: doing anything. So he said the mixcuse me, could you
Speaker 5: just stand over there to the right, I'm getting more
Speaker 5: from the brick wall. And I mean I always thought,
Speaker 5: oh god, that's totally classic. But the thing is, a
Speaker 5: lot of times, you know, you're you're looking at a
Speaker 5: little white dot. Yes, maybe the act when you're doing
Speaker 5: your close ups and stuff like that, they're behind the
Speaker 5: camera so you have been eyeline, but half the time
Speaker 5: you can't see them. So if you haven't picked up
Speaker 5: your emotionality and your things that are going on, then
Speaker 5: you know Europe.
Speaker 1: Well, then the flip side of the of the crying,
Speaker 1: maybe not the flip side, but a different, a different
Speaker 1: part of this episode where you got to do what
Speaker 1: we consider one of the high honors of that being
Speaker 1: on an FBU episode, which is a courtroom outburst.
Speaker 4: You got to do that. Amazing. So how was that?
Speaker 5: I can't you.
Speaker 4: Got a scream bastard?
Speaker 5: That's on television in two thousand and seven. Maybe it
Speaker 5: was right after what's his name showed just butt on
Speaker 5: Hill Street Blues.
Speaker 2: You remember that that was a big you mean.
Speaker 4: You mean Dennis frans on Blue.
Speaker 5: Yeah, when he took his pants.
Speaker 4: I was such a moment.
Speaker 5: A huge, huge moment. I mean, so maybe this was
Speaker 5: a bastard. Oh my gosh, I was really daring.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean Therery was.
Speaker 5: He was bare face lying. He was just making stuff up.
Speaker 5: As far as I was concerned, I didn't know that
Speaker 5: she had witnessed this accident, and as far as I
Speaker 5: was concerned, he was making it up so that he
Speaker 5: could unplugg her. And I never had a good feeling
Speaker 5: about him, so I don't know. I just sort of
Speaker 5: made it easy. It was nice to work with Terry Garth.
Speaker 4: Oh, I was to ask you, she's like a lesson.
Speaker 5: I know she. Terry and I did a show years
Speaker 5: ago together and with Michael Uh Mike Ferrell, and he
Speaker 5: was accused of being of molesting children and we have
Speaker 5: this like little seven year old daughter and it was
Speaker 5: totally false accusations. But she played the lawyer that was
Speaker 5: or the newspaper person that was coming and questioning. Well,
Speaker 5: I opened up the door and I looked at her
Speaker 5: and the two of us started laughing. It was just
Speaker 5: absolutely horrible. We couldn't get three lines out without bursting
Speaker 5: into and we were hysterical. Finally, John v Met the director,
Speaker 5: said you girls get in that bathroom walking up because
Speaker 5: it was ridiculous. So she's a way were reminiscing about that.
Speaker 5: She's terrific. She's such a great person, and it's and
Speaker 5: you know, she has MNS and so she was in
Speaker 5: a wheelchair, not the whole time, but the director of
Speaker 5: photography also had an infliction where he was in a wheelchair,
Speaker 5: and you know, she she felt a little uncourage. He says, look,
Speaker 5: we've got this entire system down because they had ramps
Speaker 5: fly out. Those put the ramps in up the courthouse,
Speaker 5: every single thing. He said, just fall on me, and
Speaker 5: so she did. And they tried to fire him at
Speaker 5: one point, and the entire casting crew said no, if
Speaker 5: you lose, we leave. So he directed. He was cinematographer
Speaker 5: for years, and so that was very very cool.
Speaker 2: I thought, Wow, it's good to know that US few
Speaker 2: was ahead of their time in being able to accommodate everyone,
Speaker 2: everyone to be able to work at their best abilities.
Speaker 4: That's nice to hear about that kind of thing. Yes,
Speaker 4: And I don't know was it a connection.
Speaker 2: Did you meet Neil bear on er and then he
Speaker 2: reached out to do this part or these non c
Speaker 2: these do not connect.
Speaker 5: They probably don't.
Speaker 1: There's so much r as vu that we always assumed
Speaker 1: that Neil Bher was just kind of plucking people from
Speaker 1: the er days.
Speaker 4: Danny just loves good actresses.
Speaker 2: He's always when we talked to him, it seems like
Speaker 2: you'd be someone he was obsessed with.
Speaker 1: Oh good, yeah, remember.
Speaker 5: That woman you were obsessed?
Speaker 2: Well another person famously, we saw that your sister acted.
Speaker 2: Did you guys ever act together? And then while you
Speaker 2: guys were acting, were you competitive? Were you supportive? How
Speaker 2: was it both being like stars?
Speaker 4: So young?
Speaker 5: Well, Angela was three and a half because we emigrated
Speaker 5: here from what we were born in England and then
Speaker 5: we emigrated to Canada and we were in Canada, but
Speaker 5: my dad always wanted to come to America, and for
Speaker 5: some reason, Los Angeles, and so we drove across country
Speaker 5: and we moved into an apartment in El Segundo, and
Speaker 5: my dad was a technical artist, and it was across
Speaker 5: from Rocket Dyne. Actually that particular place was across from
Speaker 5: the airport. But they worked well. My mother didn't know anybody,
Speaker 5: I mean, we didn't even have a telephone, and so
Speaker 5: she asked the landlady if she knew how they could
Speaker 5: meet people. And so the landlady says, well, your kids
Speaker 5: are awfully cute. The girl, the lady down the street,
Speaker 5: her daughter does modeling and stuff, so why don't you
Speaker 5: talk to her? What possessed my mother? I have no
Speaker 5: idea that she did. And the phone calls used to
Speaker 5: come through the manager's office, you know, like four interviews.
Speaker 5: Well in those days they used to do these things
Speaker 5: called cattle calls, and the cattle calls where every child,
Speaker 5: you know, under a certain age would go in. I
Speaker 5: went in for this part that Angela went up for,
Speaker 5: which was insane. I mean I was what six and
Speaker 5: a half seven and she was three and a half.
Speaker 5: And it was somebody up there like me, Paul Newman
Speaker 5: and Pierre Angeli, and she got it. The first job
Speaker 5: she went on, she got and I had long grades
Speaker 5: and thousands of trickles and blue eyes, and I used
Speaker 5: to do all of these Kellogg's commercials. I did corn Flakes,
Speaker 5: I did Rice Chris, I did sugar Spats, different, all
Speaker 5: these different things. But we were never really in competition
Speaker 5: with each other because we looked so different. We did
Speaker 5: get to work together on The Alfred Hitchcock Hour and
Speaker 5: we did an episode called the Schwartz Metaclune Method and
Speaker 5: it was with Hermione giggled and we got to play
Speaker 5: sisters and so that was fun. Oh that was great.
Speaker 5: And I did the Children's Hour, which is.
Speaker 4: One of my favorite of all time.
Speaker 5: I was a movie too.
Speaker 4: Yeah, that was a big thing.
Speaker 2: In high school. We read it and it was just
Speaker 2: it kind of changed my life in a way.
Speaker 4: That show. It means a lot to me.
Speaker 5: Well, it's interest. I went to a high school and
Speaker 5: they showed the movie and we discussed it. So that
Speaker 5: was kind of interesting.
Speaker 4: Because you were in it the movie that they showed. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 4: it's why.
Speaker 5: Yeah, because it was one of those things you know
Speaker 5: that came up to and they asked me if I
Speaker 5: would do it, and I said sure, that'd be great.
Speaker 5: So we watched the movie and then we discussed it afterwards,
Speaker 5: which you know, it was really sort of ahead of
Speaker 5: its time, I mean talking about lesbianism. I mean, people
Speaker 5: were so uptight. What did they do that in nineteen
Speaker 5: sixty sixty one We did that movie and people pulled
Speaker 5: their kids out of doing the movie once they found
Speaker 5: out what it was about, and it was just weird.
Speaker 5: But we had always taken these sort of little singing
Speaker 5: and dancing classes and acting classes where we did little
Speaker 5: plays on the side with Frank Waika and Bill Lockwood.
Speaker 5: But we ended up being really good friends with him
Speaker 5: and go over there and sign these cats that used
Speaker 5: to be able to open the doors and stuff. We
Speaker 5: al said it was fascinating and they were just really
Speaker 5: nice guys. So my mom says to me, this is
Speaker 5: just like frank and Bill only two women. Well that
Speaker 5: seemed perfectly fine to me. I mean, they seem to
Speaker 5: be being totally normal. Which when I have to tell
Speaker 5: the lie about seeing them kiss, was me really telling
Speaker 5: the lie about seeing something? I mean, because it was,
Speaker 5: you know, just like Franklin and Bill on like two women.
Speaker 5: I mean, my mom was pretty cool.
Speaker 4: Yeah, she sounds like she was very progressive.
Speaker 5: Yeah, later on.
Speaker 4: Well, also, your character in the Children's Hour is named Rosalie,
Speaker 4: which is my daughter's name, and I love that little connection. Yes,
Speaker 4: but can you so tell us about working with Alfred Hitchcock.
Speaker 4: I mean, was that we've never been able to ask you, We've.
Speaker 1: Never thought we would ever ask anyone on our podcast
Speaker 1: A Hitchcock.
Speaker 5: Well, do you know? Well I was twelve and I
Speaker 5: thought he was just terrific. He never was intimidating to me.
Speaker 5: I mean, I guess Tippy had an entirely different relationship
Speaker 5: with him. But I was twelve and I asked him
Speaker 5: the questions. My first meeting was a request to meet
Speaker 5: him in his bungalow at Universal Studios. And I had
Speaker 5: already done two or three Alfred Hitchcock TV shows, but
Speaker 5: they were sort of unrelated. And I was born in Bristol, England,
Speaker 5: and it turned out to be where his favorite wine
Speaker 5: cellar was, so of course he proceeded to give me
Speaker 5: names of wine. But at twelve I didn't whip out
Speaker 5: my pad and start writing writing those things down. I
Speaker 5: wish I had, and he was just a very He
Speaker 5: was just great, so I never felt intimidated. I would
Speaker 5: ask him questions about how they did stuff like the
Speaker 5: birds on the Jungle Gym. A lot of them were
Speaker 5: cardboard or across the tops of the wires, you know,
Speaker 5: the telephone wires and stuff like that, but then real
Speaker 5: birds were mixed in with them. And he says, well,
Speaker 5: if you see movement, you assume everything is alive. And
Speaker 5: it's absolutely true to this day. I can watch that
Speaker 5: movie and think I found a fake bird, and then
Speaker 5: it moves. I mean, it's fascinating. And when we go
Speaker 5: to leave, we're walking out of that door. But the
Speaker 5: door there was no door. So I asked him about, well,
Speaker 5: there's no door here. He says, well, if there was
Speaker 5: a door, I would be able to see you, now,
Speaker 5: would I. So let's show her Rod, And then Rod
Speaker 5: Taylor bends down and he mind opening the door, and
Speaker 5: the big shadow comes across our face and all of
Speaker 5: a sudden we're in light and there was the door.
Speaker 5: I mean, And he says, you see, this is the
Speaker 5: magic of movies. Now. So I feel incredibly privileged that
Speaker 5: I have had those treats to him, because you know
Speaker 5: people have a weird reputation or with older women.
Speaker 1: Yeah, most people can't say they've had those kind of experiences.
Speaker 1: Do you have any other stories from the Birds that
Speaker 1: you'd like to share?
Speaker 5: On my thirteenth birthday, they threw me an entire cast
Speaker 5: and crew birthday party, which was a total surprise and huge,
Speaker 5: big cake, and Jessica Candy gave me a sweater and
Speaker 5: Tippy gave me at a love Birds and I used
Speaker 5: to sit and have tea every afternoon with Alfred Hitchcock
Speaker 5: At four o'clock. Everything shut down for half an hour
Speaker 5: while he would sit and have his tea and gather
Speaker 5: his thoughts, and so I would do that with him.
Speaker 5: So he had a woman, Peggy Robinson, who was his
Speaker 5: assistant to bring out the tea and stuff like that.
Speaker 5: So he goes Peggy and she hands him this board,
Speaker 5: white board and a black crayon and he wrote to
Speaker 5: the woman I loved Veronica, drew his face and then
Speaker 5: signed his name. So it was just wow, so cool.
Speaker 4: Do you still have any of those?
Speaker 5: I do tibal paper and I actually lent it to
Speaker 5: the Hollywood Museum. They were doing a whole thing on
Speaker 5: Alfred Hitchcock and stuff. Yeah, I mean it's it's you know,
Speaker 5: and I've never been a great one to save a
Speaker 5: bunch of stuff, so that was nice. I did. I
Speaker 5: saved for ages the pod from Invasion of the Body Snatcher,
Speaker 5: but it moved from like three different houses and somewhere
Speaker 5: along the line it disappeared.
Speaker 4: And that was sad.
Speaker 5: I really liked that.
Speaker 2: Paul, You've done so much. I conic horror. You know,
Speaker 2: You've been in such important things I have.
Speaker 5: I have been very lucky being but you know it's
Speaker 5: the parts too. I mean, I've been lucky that and
Speaker 5: it seems a lot of the time. I am the
Speaker 5: sort of savior. I am the smart one. If anybody
Speaker 5: listened to me when we did Alien, we'd be fine.
Speaker 5: I mean, I did not know that I was going
Speaker 5: to get, you know, whacked by Donald Sutherland of the
Speaker 5: end of Invasion of the Body standards. I was told
Speaker 5: one thing and then still told them Donald a different thing.
Speaker 5: So that was a total reaction. I had no idea
Speaker 5: that he was going to be a pod because there
Speaker 5: was nobody around. This is perfect I need and I
Speaker 5: check out everything. I mean, I discover how I can,
Speaker 5: you know, sleep and I guess I took a lot
Speaker 5: of Benny's. I don't know that's why I was so emotional.
Speaker 5: But I mean, I have really my character really have been.
Speaker 5: I've been the one who says, you know what if
Speaker 5: this was the case, or let's Truss struggling it off
Speaker 5: of the ship, there's there's obviously something out there that's
Speaker 5: killing us, and nobody listens. It's very sad.
Speaker 1: Well, I was going to ask you if there are
Speaker 1: any roles that you're still dying to play, and maybe
Speaker 1: it's just somebody who people listen to. Maybe you get
Speaker 1: to make the big suggestion and everybody goes, you're right,
Speaker 1: and then.
Speaker 5: They yeah, that's it. I don't know if there's I mean,
Speaker 5: I love working, so yeah, I'm just I think I've
Speaker 5: been able to play some really terrific parts. And there's
Speaker 5: movies that haven't been that good or nobody's ever seen,
Speaker 5: and sometimes I think it's some of my best works.
Speaker 5: I don't know, you know, it's like, but that's okay.
Speaker 5: I mean I feel good about that.
Speaker 1: Well, I saw you kind of semi recently in one
Speaker 1: of my favorite shows, the audience of this podcas Cast Knows,
Speaker 1: I talk about the show all the time.
Speaker 4: But I love.
Speaker 1: BOSH and you were like, a that was such a
Speaker 1: like terrifying storyline that you were in, And I was like, like,
Speaker 1: your character doesn't.
Speaker 4: Come to a great end, but you love working on
Speaker 4: BOSH with that scary scary man.
Speaker 5: Oh yeah, he yes, I mean, and it was really
Speaker 5: a great part. I mean, I couldn't believe in those glasses,
Speaker 5: those horrible glasses, and I had to wear that. I
Speaker 5: couldn't see it, but they had sort of give me
Speaker 5: a little guiding put things onto like the table, follow
Speaker 5: it to the end of the table, and then make
Speaker 5: a beeline to this other daughter over here because I
Speaker 5: couldn't see a thing out of those glasses. So but
Speaker 5: she was a She was a fun character. You don't
Speaker 5: get to play the often. And Wolvers is just great.
Speaker 5: I really like him. Titus is just he's terrific.
Speaker 4: And he's an SBO alum. He's been on multiple episodes
Speaker 4: of SBU oh yeah.
Speaker 5: Because you know a lot of times they won't rehire
Speaker 5: you for stuff. It's like I did a Closer and
Speaker 5: then they did that continuation of the Closer that with
Speaker 5: Mary McDonald and I loved that show, so I thought
Speaker 5: in the part came up and they wouldn't hire me
Speaker 5: because nine years earlier I had done a closer with
Speaker 5: dark hair.
Speaker 1: H what a stupid rule, beautiful stupid doesn't follow that,
Speaker 1: They'll they'll probably have you back, keep your phone, keep
Speaker 1: your phone closed.
Speaker 5: I watch it, I do. It's so funny because I
Speaker 5: didn't watch it. I watched some of the other stuff.
Speaker 5: But she's wonderful. Marishka Haggerty. She is. She's a real character.
Speaker 5: She's just down to earth. She's really funny. And you
Speaker 5: know she likes her Shapsburg chocolate.
Speaker 4: Oh we've never gotten that little bit.
Speaker 5: Yes she does. She has to have a couple of chunks.
Speaker 5: But I thought she was terrific. She's great. I mean,
Speaker 5: the whole show is really a good show.
Speaker 4: Yeah. I wanted to ask you.
Speaker 1: So, this is like a thing that I just read
Speaker 1: in your Wikipedia and then I confirmed it that you're
Speaker 1: on the cover of the Scissor Sisters album I Don't
Speaker 1: Feel Like Dancing, which is a favorite song of my
Speaker 1: daughters and mine that we listened to all the time together.
Speaker 1: And I was like, no way, how did you get
Speaker 1: involved with the Scissor Sisters.
Speaker 4: I love them.
Speaker 5: I had always paid for you know, a certain amount
Speaker 5: of five dollars a month or something so that my
Speaker 5: telephone will not be listed. This was my home phone. Well,
Speaker 5: I get paid for it for years, and then I
Speaker 5: get this call one day and it's Jake Shears and
Speaker 5: Jake he goes, Hi is this roundic? Who is this?
Speaker 5: And he goes, oh, well, I take shares im with
Speaker 5: the Scissor sisters, and please don't hang up on me.
Speaker 5: I'm not a stalker. I said, well, how did you
Speaker 5: get this number? He goes, I just looked it up
Speaker 5: in the directory?
Speaker 4: Oh my gosh.
Speaker 5: And I called up and I said, well, why am
Speaker 5: I paying all this money each month for all of
Speaker 5: these years to have an unlisted phone number? And but anyway,
Speaker 5: so he asked me if I would do the cover
Speaker 5: of their you know, it's the elevator one. We all
Speaker 5: come out, and I said sure, And it turned out
Speaker 5: to be Rocky Shank who did the photography, and they
Speaker 5: dressed me and Armani and then they had made a
Speaker 5: long gray way and we drove around in a taxi
Speaker 5: cab and they took pictures. I mean, I had so
Speaker 5: much fun. It was just it was so so cool
Speaker 5: and yeah. So I'm on the the LP the A
Speaker 5: Little forty five.
Speaker 4: I love it. That's so I like.
Speaker 1: I mean when I read it, I was like, I'm
Speaker 1: gonna look this up. And then I zoomed in I
Speaker 1: saw you. Yeah, I was like that there she.
Speaker 5: Is very very elegant. Yes, really fun.
Speaker 1: You look like yeah, you look like a cult leader
Speaker 1: or something, just like very you know, like beautiful, long
Speaker 1: gray hair and like yop.
Speaker 4: It was.
Speaker 5: It was really fun to do. And then I stayed
Speaker 5: in touch with Jake. I'm good friends with Clinton and
Speaker 5: Loop who's Cocco. Yeah, and so Rocky Shank and Cocoa
Speaker 5: and I went to see the Scissor Sisters at a
Speaker 5: pop up show in Santa Monica.
Speaker 4: Oh my god.
Speaker 5: I heard about it because Rocky stayed in touch because
Speaker 5: of the music end of it, because he did he
Speaker 5: did Adyl's first video and stuff like that. So the
Speaker 5: three of us went to the show. It was so cool.
Speaker 5: I mean, they were just so they're so great. And
Speaker 5: afterwards we were walking around, this guy comes up to
Speaker 5: she goes, you are my favorite actress. I just love you,
Speaker 5: I said, David Groll. Oh cool. I mean, my girlfriend
Speaker 5: is so jealous. That that happens.
Speaker 4: I love that you're friends with Coco Peru. That's amazing.
Speaker 2: I cannot even I like Google to make sure I
Speaker 2: was right, and then I was like, oh my.
Speaker 5: Yeah, well I met her doing a movie called Straight Jacket,
Speaker 5: and which is a hysterically silly movie. Richard Day did
Speaker 5: this movie is and I talked like that this little
Speaker 5: black Wigan and I talked about Jane Russell and everything's
Speaker 5: a mile a minute, and I'm the agent of the well,
Speaker 5: every person who was gay in the movie played a
Speaker 5: straight person, and everybody who is straight plays a gay person.
Speaker 5: And she plays this woman that's supposed to be married
Speaker 5: to this head of the studio, Coco. Her name is
Speaker 5: Beatrice in the movie, and she keeps asking me if
Speaker 5: I played golf. Well, I live on a golf course,
Speaker 5: and you have to just see. The movie is short
Speaker 5: and it's absolutely hysterical. It's called Straight Jacket. So that's
Speaker 5: where I met Coco, And of course I go and
Speaker 5: see her shows and he's a great guy. He's really terrific. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I didn't know if maybe you met Coco because you
Speaker 1: played did you play Jack's.
Speaker 4: Mom on Will and Grace?
Speaker 1: Uh huh, yeah, so, and Coco was always on Will
Speaker 1: and Grace in and out.
Speaker 5: So yeah, well I thought I would do more too.
Speaker 5: That was very show. And you know, it's so weird
Speaker 5: because I replaced somebody on that show, so I had
Speaker 5: I had the Monday, we read the bread through of
Speaker 5: the script and on Tuesday they took my measurements for wardrobe.
Speaker 5: I did wardrobe. I had a lady following me around,
Speaker 5: a script supervisor following me around so I could get
Speaker 5: all those words because we shot that night on Tuesday night.
Speaker 5: I mean it was like so quick and such a turnaround.
Speaker 4: Oh my god.
Speaker 5: And I had a ball on that show. It was
Speaker 5: really fun. Yeah, and I really thought that they'd have
Speaker 5: me back because most people thought Agents of Three shows
Speaker 5: because there were so many parts to that one particular episode. Yeah,
Speaker 5: they never And then they started bringing me back and
Speaker 5: he was supposed to be shaving his legs and I'm
Speaker 5: doing a pod thing, but they never did it. So
Speaker 5: it was a shame.
Speaker 1: Well, you only were you only worked on about seventy
Speaker 1: thousand other projects after that.
Speaker 2: Well, one of the other things we have scary movie too.
Speaker 2: The scary movies were meant a lot to me, so
Speaker 2: while you were shooting.
Speaker 5: My God, you had very strange choice. A scary movie too.
Speaker 5: My audition for a scary movie too was insane. I
Speaker 5: had to go up to this building, it's a very
Speaker 5: old building, is a beautiful building on Highland and Hollywood Boulevard,
Speaker 5: and go into a room and sing Hello Dolly at
Speaker 5: the top of my lungs and oh my god, nice
Speaker 5: and they kept saying louder, bigger, bigger, louder, and here
Speaker 5: I am hello. I mean, it was just absolutely insane.
Speaker 5: I come out and there's a ups man who's just
Speaker 5: and he looks at me like I have lost time.
Speaker 5: I mean, it was just a look on his face.
Speaker 5: So originally I was supposed to be Marlon Brando. Jimmy
Speaker 5: Woods was supposed to be Marlon Brando, and then Marlon
Speaker 5: Brando got sick, so then Jimmy, Jimmy did it?
Speaker 4: Have you ever been starstruck?
Speaker 2: You've worked with so many people as anyone ever made
Speaker 2: you like, Oh my goodness.
Speaker 5: Well, I'll tell you. Shirlie McClain. Actually she was ended
Speaker 5: up being my mentor sort of. She was so terrific
Speaker 5: to me when we were doing the Children's Hour, and
Speaker 5: she would give me little tips. She would say, Honey,
Speaker 5: don't don't lose your tears on off camera, Stone, wait
Speaker 5: until the camera comes on you, otherwise you know you
Speaker 5: won't be It was like all these odd tips when
Speaker 5: I did the breakdown scene, which it was a bit cruel,
Speaker 5: I think, to do to an eleven year old, is
Speaker 5: what they did. I kept, I mean, and you know,
Speaker 5: I'd worked quite a bit. So he sort of build up,
Speaker 5: and you build up, and William Wyler said, Okay, we're
Speaker 5: going to be shooting this one, so you pour it
Speaker 5: on a little more. And then he turned to the
Speaker 5: send him aatographer and he said, okay, now shoot it,
Speaker 5: at which point I had rehearsed it like four or
Speaker 5: five times. I don't even know when it was acting
Speaker 5: anymore when I did that, But she was the first
Speaker 5: person to come over and hug me and tell me
Speaker 5: how wonderful I was, and she was just I don't know,
Speaker 5: she was really great to me, and I didn't realize
Speaker 5: it until years later. And I had a dream when
Speaker 5: that she was there and I walked It was in
Speaker 5: Las Vegas, and I walked down the full length of
Speaker 5: the swimming pools to tell her that I wanted to,
Speaker 5: you know, because I had seen her do when they
Speaker 5: did as used to have to do wardrobe on film
Speaker 5: and they would you know, it was put on pedestal
Speaker 5: in you spin and we were told to stay away
Speaker 5: from her. Christy told dirty jokes and I was there
Speaker 5: because I was next up, and I thought she was
Speaker 5: just slowly turning, and she was had such rapport with
Speaker 5: the crew, and I thought, that's who I want to
Speaker 5: be like. I want to have that kind of a
Speaker 5: rapport with the crew and all of the people. So
Speaker 5: she was she really was like a mentor. Well, I
Speaker 5: was doing a play at this theater that the Music
Speaker 5: Center bought on Vine Avenue, Hollywood and Vine, and it
Speaker 5: had to close down because of the Christmas Parade.
Speaker 4: So I saw she was.
Speaker 5: Doing the one woman show over on Wilshire Boulevard. So
Speaker 5: I decided I was going to go see her. So
Speaker 5: I watched the show and it was fantastic. And then
Speaker 5: I went backstage and I can I see Shirley McClain
Speaker 5: and are you on the list? I said, no, he
Speaker 5: goes well, I said, would you just tell I worked
Speaker 5: with her years ago, would you just tell her for
Speaker 5: Ronnie the Cartwrink next thing I know, the guy goes, well,
Speaker 5: she will see you. And I walked in and she goes, honey,
Speaker 5: I have followed your career and I went, oh my god,
Speaker 5: I say, and I had a dream. It was like
Speaker 5: so weird because she does all of those path live
Speaker 5: things and stuff like that and talks about dreams and
Speaker 5: stuff in her book, so it was really cool.
Speaker 4: She's so funny. I love her.
Speaker 1: Yes, Payton to keep your name out of the Yellow
Speaker 1: Pages iconic.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I love these badass bitches we get to talk
Speaker 2: to who've really just been working, working, just work fun,
Speaker 2: you know, self aware, knew her highlights were wild. It's
Speaker 2: it's nice, yeahalented, hard working, badass yeah an episode, yeah, definitely,
Speaker 2: and have good crime.
Speaker 4: I didn't know what she looked like.
Speaker 2: I can't believe it was so high up that the
Speaker 2: president was involved in last minute pluggings and unpluggings of
Speaker 2: like one believe mcwoman in Florida.
Speaker 4: It's kind of wild, you know.
Speaker 1: It's like, I just think back then, the issues that
Speaker 1: the Republicans would like latch onto because they knew it
Speaker 1: would like invigorate their base were just like not as
Speaker 1: now we know what it is now we know it's like, oh,
Speaker 1: guns and you know whatever drag, you know how drag
Speaker 1: is killing children and all that, like it's so obvious.
Speaker 4: But this kind of thing, I don't.
Speaker 1: Know, this right to death argument was in the conversation,
Speaker 1: but not necessarily maybe it was our age, but not
Speaker 1: necessarily something we would know about.
Speaker 2: No, it was like a walking punchline, I feel like
Speaker 2: from someone that's what I saw it at.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I didn't know the downs and outs of the case.
Speaker 1: A lot of things that are punchlines, like Monica Lewinsky
Speaker 1: and you know, all these we've learned later are not
Speaker 1: like the way Amber heard is a punchline right now.
Speaker 1: It's kind of like I think in five years people
Speaker 1: are gonna be like that was fucked up.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I didn't realize how long he waited, like
Speaker 2: eight to ten years denying money, Like I don't know
Speaker 2: why anyone thought he was.
Speaker 4: A shady dude, I know. But overall a great episode.
Speaker 1: Unfortunately, the episode people call the Dean Kine episode, it's the.
Speaker 4: Dan Kane episode. Dane episode forever. This is what it is.
Speaker 2: It's like the all like this group like a Dean
Speaker 2: Kane and all the other people we talk about that
Speaker 2: become like right wing lunatics. It's men that were on
Speaker 2: their journey to become successful and then didn't become as
Speaker 2: successful as they wanted, and then they blame everyone, but
Speaker 2: they're themselves right, or they can't just like be fulfilled
Speaker 2: with their lives.
Speaker 4: And I fail that in comedy.
Speaker 2: Like any of the dudes that become like super alt
Speaker 2: right lunatics, they always they're just people that like are
Speaker 2: not where they want to be in their career. And
Speaker 2: that's how I feel with Dean Kaine's ass. But change
Speaker 2: your attitude. There's a s few episodes that's the Dean
Speaker 2: Kine episode.
Speaker 4: You're doing great.
Speaker 2: I don't get it. And would you say, Sabato Junior.
Speaker 2: They're all in the same camp.
Speaker 4: Yeah, Scott Beao.
Speaker 2: They all have better versions of themselves out, you know
Speaker 2: what I mean, Like we don't we have Tony Danza.
Speaker 4: We don't need a Scott BeO And he didn't realize that.
Speaker 4: You know, we don't need a junior.
Speaker 2: We have a what the fuck's his name? Antonio Banderas.
Speaker 2: You know what I mean? Like, we don't different Antonios. Yeah,
Speaker 2: so get your personality right. We have better versions of.
Speaker 1: You or Ricky Martin. Antonio Banderas and Ricky Martin. We're
Speaker 1: both soap guys. Look is so good. It holds up
Speaker 1: anytime it comes up anywhere. It's like a It's like
Speaker 1: I would see him. I would see him in concert too.
Speaker 4: I bet it's a baby.
Speaker 2: That's what you learn people that are so successful for decade.
Speaker 2: It's gonna be a good show, whether you like or
Speaker 2: know the music or not. Yeah, because when I did
Speaker 2: that Papa Roach Cruise, I was like, wow, Papa Roach, Pat,
Speaker 2: that's pretty good.
Speaker 1: These are Roach Cruise. Oh my former sister in law
Speaker 1: was probably on that. Okay, I didn't know someone got divorced.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, Jared's brother.
Speaker 4: Oh yeah, I was just thinking of your siblings.
Speaker 1: Sorry, yeah yeah, yeah yeah, not on my side.
Speaker 4: So far, everyone's held it together.
Speaker 2: And again, if Colin Klink is listening and any of
Speaker 2: your friends like get dumped Anita plus one, I would
Speaker 2: attend your wedding.
Speaker 4: I'm gonna put it out here first.
Speaker 1: You and Rachel are both like happy they get the wedding.
Speaker 2: I don't need an invite, but if someone drops out,
Speaker 2: I don't know.
Speaker 1: If someone drops out and you've got a steak that
Speaker 1: needs to get eaten.
Speaker 4: She'll find your way. She'll find your way there.
Speaker 1: So yeah, this episode post mortem, what have we learned?
Speaker 1: I mean, unfortunately, men like this are gonna prey on
Speaker 1: women like Cora, and I feel sad about that.
Speaker 4: I'm like, you deserve better, and uh, it's it sucks
Speaker 4: that we were really on a roll.
Speaker 2: I don't know why we brought why you had to
Speaker 2: bring it back down to the sadness of the episode.
Speaker 4: We probably like recover. I thought we have the back
Speaker 4: like good. I didn't know.
Speaker 1: I thought we should go back from my brother's wedding
Speaker 1: to the sadness of us for you.
Speaker 4: But I don't know what else? What else? Uh?
Speaker 2: Oh, we forgot one really funny detail. At the Backstreep
Speaker 2: Boy concert, I knew there was wine and beer. We
Speaker 2: had a great server and I just said, listen, we
Speaker 2: have any booze or what like premium cocks?
Speaker 4: What do you have?
Speaker 2: And he goes, we have absolutely no alcohol except you
Speaker 2: could take shots of fireball and that's the only shot
Speaker 2: that Kara takes.
Speaker 1: So we were the only shot I will take is
Speaker 1: fucking fireball. And this is the only booze he has
Speaker 1: is cinnamon. Whiskey that I drink.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so I got a couple of rounds of fireball
Speaker 2: whisky Fireball.
Speaker 4: What did I say? I guess some tongue tie.
Speaker 1: Calling it like firewater, And I was like, because there
Speaker 1: is like a new firewater, right, isn't that like canned?
Speaker 4: Like firewater is something? It's like a can. Yeah, it
Speaker 4: might be a canned cocktail thing.
Speaker 2: I also kept singing in sync instead of the Backstreep Boys,
Speaker 2: and I don't know why not during the concert, but
Speaker 2: in my head I have like it's fucked up.
Speaker 4: I keep singing that. Oh.
Speaker 2: Also, there's a backstreyp Boys song on DNA and the
Speaker 2: beginning of the song starts out where he goes, what
Speaker 2: am I the sex police?
Speaker 4: Or what are you the sex police? Yeah, it's funny.
Speaker 2: It's so good. It's called New Love and it makes
Speaker 2: me laugh. So I had to share.
Speaker 1: Yeah, they were really proud of this album that they
Speaker 1: dropped in twenty nineteen, and unfortunately the world didn't really
Speaker 1: get to hear it because of COVID and the pandemic.
Speaker 1: So they were taking us back and definitely letting us
Speaker 1: know about it anyway.
Speaker 4: Yeah, they really were pluged. This albums so hard.
Speaker 1: Any other Backstreet Boy things, or should I should we
Speaker 1: dive back into the depression of the episode, or should
Speaker 1: I just move on to what would say could emerge?
Speaker 4: I don't know.
Speaker 2: It's just like it was nice being there. Yeah, and
Speaker 2: I knew the words to every song. Like that's fun,
Speaker 2: it's fun to sing along.
Speaker 4: You know.
Speaker 2: The fact that I don't I haven't listened to them
Speaker 2: regularly in a while, And like the fact that my
Speaker 2: brain is like like immediately is like fucked up, no wonder,
Speaker 2: I don't remember anything. My brain is filled with backstreep
Speaker 2: boillyrics from twenty years ago.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, you also told me the story about how
Speaker 1: when you were a teenager, you came home from school
Speaker 1: for a video premiere that they used to do if
Speaker 1: you're a young person, they used to they used to
Speaker 1: premiere videos on like TRL and your parents had locked
Speaker 1: the house or something, and you just ripped the doorknob
Speaker 1: off the door or something and ripped a hole in
Speaker 1: your door to get into the house and watch them video. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's wild behavior.
Speaker 2: Well, I think what was wild for Kara was she
Speaker 2: was like, so did you get in trouble?
Speaker 4: And I was like, I didn't. I don't really get
Speaker 4: I never got in trouble.
Speaker 1: It was like my life would have been over, Like
Speaker 1: if you damage something in my house, you were in
Speaker 1: so much trouble.
Speaker 4: Truly.
Speaker 2: They came home and there was no doorknob in the
Speaker 2: back door. But I forgot my keys, and I had
Speaker 2: to see the video there was just.
Speaker 5: Got your keys.
Speaker 4: Oh my god.
Speaker 2: I obviously tried to climb through the windows first, like
Speaker 2: I had a routine of when if I forgot the keys.
Speaker 1: But they need to hide a key over there, all right,
Speaker 1: we need to hide a key.
Speaker 2: Those communists, they would never trust a key outside, a
Speaker 2: key in a rock.
Speaker 4: No fucking way. Okay, do your job, do the do it?
Speaker 1: Okay, all right, let's get into what would Sister Peg do?
Speaker 1: Our weekly segment where we tell you, guys, give you
Speaker 1: an organization, a book, a link, something that can help
Speaker 1: give you more information about the topic that we touched
Speaker 1: on in today's episode. So today I'd like to point
Speaker 1: out the organization Death with Dignity, which is an organization
Speaker 1: focused on end of life advocacy and policy reform. Their
Speaker 1: mission centers on improving how people with terminal illnesses die
Speaker 1: and making sure that all Americans have the freedom to
Speaker 1: make their own end of life decisions, which I think
Speaker 1: is very important. And actually a friend of mine who
Speaker 1: recently passed specifically I believe, moved to a state where
Speaker 1: they had that so that she could be in control
Speaker 1: of her own decisions. And I think it's kind of
Speaker 1: nuts that the government gets involved in that. So I
Speaker 1: like this organization that works to change policy about that.
Speaker 1: So they have different campaigns you can join in on.
Speaker 1: There's petitions to drop residency requirements for Death with Dignity
Speaker 1: to passing Death with Dignity in Massachusetts, So there's all different.
Speaker 4: Kinds of things you can get involved in. If you
Speaker 4: go check out their.
Speaker 1: Website, which is Deathwithdignity dot org and if you'd like
Speaker 1: to help out sign a petition, learn more, you can
Speaker 1: head to their website. And as always, that is going
Speaker 1: to be in our show notes for today's episode and
Speaker 1: all of our what would Sister peg dos are always
Speaker 1: in a highlight on our Instagram page that is called WWSPD.
Speaker 2: Wow, you really said a lot of information and you
Speaker 2: did it well. Thank you and next week join us
Speaker 2: for Limitations, Season one, episode fourteen. Thanks for listening. We
Speaker 2: love you, see you live soon hopefully.
Speaker 4: Bye.
Speaker 2: Thanks That's Messed Up as an Exactly Right production.
Speaker 1: If you have compliments you'd like to give us, or
Speaker 1: episodes you'd like us to cover, shoot us an email
Speaker 1: it That's Messed uppod at gmail dot com.
Speaker 2: Follow the podcast on Instagram at That's Messed Up Pod
Speaker 2: and on Twitter at messed Up Pod, and follow us
Speaker 2: personally at Kara Klank and at glitter Cheese.
Speaker 1: As always, please see our show notes for sources and
Speaker 1: more information.
Speaker 4: Thank you so much to our producer On Nelson, and
Speaker 4: to our mixer John Bradley, and.
Speaker 2: To Henry Kaperski for our theme song and Carly Geen
Speaker 2: Andrews for our artwork. Thank you to our executive producers
Speaker 2: Georgia Hardstart, Karen Kilgarriff, Daniel Kramer, and everybody at Exactly
Speaker 2: Right Media.
Speaker 4: Dun dun