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That's thirty dollars off your first box and 30 00:01:35,480 --> 00:01:38,680 Speaker 1: free croissants for life when you visit wildgrain dot com 31 00:01:38,720 --> 00:01:43,080 Speaker 1: slash podcast, or simply use the promo code podcast at checkout. 32 00:01:43,480 --> 00:01:50,080 Speaker 1: This is a sponsor I absolutely embrace, so use that code. 33 00:01:50,840 --> 00:01:54,960 Speaker 1: Hello there, Welcome to another special episode of the Chuck Podcast. 34 00:01:55,040 --> 00:02:00,680 Speaker 1: This is part two of my super Mailbag episodes that 35 00:02:00,760 --> 00:02:04,520 Speaker 1: I promised for the beginning of the year. Look, we're 36 00:02:04,560 --> 00:02:06,440 Speaker 1: all let's be realistic here, right. 37 00:02:06,520 --> 00:02:07,400 Speaker 2: Do you want. 38 00:02:09,320 --> 00:02:13,040 Speaker 1: Two month old interviews archived and launched in the first 39 00:02:13,040 --> 00:02:17,160 Speaker 1: week or do you want you know, do you want 40 00:02:17,200 --> 00:02:20,519 Speaker 1: fresh content even if it's questions that are a few 41 00:02:20,520 --> 00:02:23,400 Speaker 1: weeks old? And I think you want fresh content, And 42 00:02:23,440 --> 00:02:26,280 Speaker 1: I think you want fresh answers and fresh thoughts rather 43 00:02:26,360 --> 00:02:27,760 Speaker 1: than a stale interview. 44 00:02:28,120 --> 00:02:29,320 Speaker 2: And we know booking around the. 45 00:02:29,280 --> 00:02:33,720 Speaker 1: Holidays is difficult. So yes, while I fully confess this 46 00:02:33,800 --> 00:02:38,880 Speaker 1: is supposedly, you know, an episode you put together instead 47 00:02:38,919 --> 00:02:41,440 Speaker 1: of having a guest. Yes, but I kind of sort 48 00:02:41,440 --> 00:02:43,600 Speaker 1: of dig this, And the most important part that I 49 00:02:43,639 --> 00:02:47,800 Speaker 1: come away with is I get a sense of helping 50 00:02:47,840 --> 00:02:51,080 Speaker 1: to shape the content that I'm going to offer you 51 00:02:51,120 --> 00:02:55,520 Speaker 1: for the year ahead, based really on what is most 52 00:02:55,520 --> 00:02:59,239 Speaker 1: animated in the Q and A sessions. So without further ado, 53 00:02:59,400 --> 00:03:01,840 Speaker 1: we're going to dig in. Look, mailbag one was very 54 00:03:01,840 --> 00:03:05,800 Speaker 1: policy focused. A few people had questions about that, a 55 00:03:06,040 --> 00:03:10,960 Speaker 1: few things about constitutional amendments, and a tiny bit on media. 56 00:03:11,000 --> 00:03:13,200 Speaker 1: This one's gonna be a little heavier in media, and 57 00:03:14,520 --> 00:03:17,280 Speaker 1: I will choose to answer some of your personal questions 58 00:03:17,360 --> 00:03:19,720 Speaker 1: that you ask about me. I will confess that I 59 00:03:20,880 --> 00:03:24,000 Speaker 1: reveal what I think is. I'm okay with public and 60 00:03:24,000 --> 00:03:25,400 Speaker 1: there's some things that I always want to. 61 00:03:25,360 --> 00:03:29,600 Speaker 2: Stay sort of keep out of the public sphere. 62 00:03:30,560 --> 00:03:34,600 Speaker 1: So with that, I'm gonna plow forward, all right, First 63 00:03:34,680 --> 00:03:37,200 Speaker 1: question of part two. In your conversation with Mike Pesca, 64 00:03:37,520 --> 00:03:39,400 Speaker 1: he said he's fine with Barry whites turning CBS into 65 00:03:39,440 --> 00:03:42,160 Speaker 1: a right leaning outlet. But doesn't that ignore two key issues. 66 00:03:42,360 --> 00:03:45,480 Speaker 1: CBS is still publicly regulated network, it should serve everyone, 67 00:03:45,760 --> 00:03:48,000 Speaker 1: and caving to Trump and brending cars and just leaning right, 68 00:03:48,040 --> 00:03:50,160 Speaker 1: it's enabling state pressure on speech? 69 00:03:50,720 --> 00:03:51,680 Speaker 2: Am I wrong? Max? 70 00:03:51,800 --> 00:03:57,360 Speaker 1: W Alexander or Virginia? So I think you're both right here, 71 00:03:57,560 --> 00:04:00,200 Speaker 1: and I think that that in fairness to Mike. Don't 72 00:04:00,200 --> 00:04:03,480 Speaker 1: think what Mike is saying is that it's it's. 73 00:04:03,320 --> 00:04:03,720 Speaker 2: Sort of. 74 00:04:06,760 --> 00:04:09,080 Speaker 1: And I think where I agree with them, it's like, look, 75 00:04:12,360 --> 00:04:16,520 Speaker 1: every news organization has a bias, a bias, even if 76 00:04:16,560 --> 00:04:18,560 Speaker 1: your bias is to try to be. 77 00:04:20,880 --> 00:04:22,800 Speaker 2: Sort of neutral or. 78 00:04:24,400 --> 00:04:26,159 Speaker 1: Sort of boring, whatever you want to call it, that 79 00:04:26,279 --> 00:04:28,880 Speaker 1: it's just a form of a bias, you know. So 80 00:04:30,880 --> 00:04:37,839 Speaker 1: I think the question is whether what is it that 81 00:04:37,839 --> 00:04:43,480 Speaker 1: that that they're hoping to do with with CBS. The 82 00:04:43,560 --> 00:04:46,520 Speaker 1: problem I have is, is the the stuff they're trying 83 00:04:46,560 --> 00:04:49,599 Speaker 1: to do with late night comedians right to try to 84 00:04:52,480 --> 00:04:56,880 Speaker 1: force late night entertainment or any entertainment through the purview 85 00:04:56,920 --> 00:04:59,559 Speaker 1: of government censors, if you will, right, I think that's 86 00:05:00,080 --> 00:05:01,600 Speaker 1: that to me, and I think that's why you saw 87 00:05:01,680 --> 00:05:06,440 Speaker 1: bipartisan outrage at Brendan Carr and what he attempted to 88 00:05:06,440 --> 00:05:08,440 Speaker 1: do with Jimmy Kimmel and to try to bully Disney 89 00:05:08,480 --> 00:05:10,160 Speaker 1: into getting rid of Kimmel and they wouldn't do it. 90 00:05:11,200 --> 00:05:14,599 Speaker 1: Or frankly, what Trump did do to Colbert with the 91 00:05:14,640 --> 00:05:26,240 Speaker 1: Ellisons or it appeared to do this, So you know, ultimately, 92 00:05:26,279 --> 00:05:31,160 Speaker 1: I think the problem is is that it's a while 93 00:05:31,160 --> 00:05:39,800 Speaker 1: it's a publicly regulated network, it only is servicing its shareholders, 94 00:05:40,400 --> 00:05:43,480 Speaker 1: So you know, I think the problem I have is 95 00:05:43,720 --> 00:05:46,720 Speaker 1: is the fuduciary responsibility that these media companies have to 96 00:05:46,800 --> 00:05:50,039 Speaker 1: shareholders and why their news divisions aren't allowed to be 97 00:05:50,160 --> 00:05:58,840 Speaker 1: fully independent, that they are subject to potential coercion because 98 00:05:59,320 --> 00:06:02,520 Speaker 1: these companies have other business in front of the government, right, 99 00:06:02,600 --> 00:06:12,559 Speaker 1: other government regulatory things. So it's it's you know, look, 100 00:06:13,680 --> 00:06:18,600 Speaker 1: do I think there could be different ways to manufacture 101 00:06:18,720 --> 00:06:23,000 Speaker 1: the network news? I do, so whether that is perceived 102 00:06:23,040 --> 00:06:26,440 Speaker 1: as leaning right or left shouldn't be the point. I 103 00:06:26,480 --> 00:06:30,279 Speaker 1: think it is more are you what are you trying 104 00:06:30,320 --> 00:06:32,279 Speaker 1: to do with your news division and who are you 105 00:06:32,320 --> 00:06:35,800 Speaker 1: trying to appeal to? And are you trying to be 106 00:06:37,160 --> 00:06:44,520 Speaker 1: a news division that still does news gathering or are 107 00:06:44,560 --> 00:06:46,599 Speaker 1: you trying to be a news division that wants to 108 00:06:46,720 --> 00:06:50,719 Speaker 1: shape the public debate. So basically, you know, I think 109 00:06:50,880 --> 00:06:54,240 Speaker 1: when you look at mss NOW, Fox News Channel, and 110 00:06:54,279 --> 00:07:02,200 Speaker 1: even CNN, I think that there their editorial focus is 111 00:07:02,240 --> 00:07:06,719 Speaker 1: about shaping the conversation rather than informing the conversation. 112 00:07:08,279 --> 00:07:09,400 Speaker 2: I think that. 113 00:07:12,200 --> 00:07:18,720 Speaker 1: In theory, the broadcast networks were simply quote unquote news gathering, right, 114 00:07:18,760 --> 00:07:20,960 Speaker 1: And that's why, you know, the biggest chunk of money 115 00:07:21,600 --> 00:07:26,360 Speaker 1: that ms NOW had to start spending new money on 116 00:07:26,560 --> 00:07:28,880 Speaker 1: was news gathering because NBC did all the news gathering 117 00:07:28,880 --> 00:07:34,200 Speaker 1: for MSNBC. MSNBC was just essentially, you know, uh was 118 00:07:34,280 --> 00:07:37,960 Speaker 1: used was always piggybacking off of NBC's news gathering operation. 119 00:07:38,440 --> 00:07:40,600 Speaker 1: And what is a news gathering operation. It's literally the 120 00:07:41,120 --> 00:07:44,720 Speaker 1: wire services or the bureaus that you put together, or 121 00:07:44,760 --> 00:07:48,040 Speaker 1: the or the databases that you're you know that you 122 00:07:48,080 --> 00:07:51,960 Speaker 1: get your information from the reporters that you employed to 123 00:07:52,000 --> 00:07:57,360 Speaker 1: go out and find stories, et cetera. And I guess 124 00:07:57,360 --> 00:08:02,360 Speaker 1: that I guess I I'm so dum. I already see 125 00:08:02,400 --> 00:08:05,600 Speaker 1: that I've already moved on from CBS, ABC and NBC. Like, 126 00:08:05,640 --> 00:08:08,080 Speaker 1: I don't think the construction of the broadcast news networks, 127 00:08:08,080 --> 00:08:10,560 Speaker 1: I think they're dead, and I just think that we 128 00:08:10,880 --> 00:08:13,200 Speaker 1: are sort of living in the Bruce Willis sixth sense. 129 00:08:13,720 --> 00:08:16,320 Speaker 1: You know, the only three entities that don't realize they're 130 00:08:16,320 --> 00:08:19,080 Speaker 1: dead are the people that run CBS News, ABC News, 131 00:08:19,080 --> 00:08:22,680 Speaker 1: and NBC News. I think the cable news channels have 132 00:08:22,760 --> 00:08:26,480 Speaker 1: slightly more relevance because they actually have a following. Right 133 00:08:26,560 --> 00:08:29,520 Speaker 1: the broadcast news divisions really have no following for their news. 134 00:08:29,880 --> 00:08:32,640 Speaker 1: They have followings maybe for some style people like I like, 135 00:08:32,760 --> 00:08:34,960 Speaker 1: you know, like I like to you know, see what 136 00:08:35,040 --> 00:08:36,000 Speaker 1: David Muir is. 137 00:08:35,920 --> 00:08:37,040 Speaker 2: Up to tonight, or I like. 138 00:08:38,679 --> 00:08:43,000 Speaker 1: What's happening you know, the Today Show or Good Morning America, 139 00:08:43,679 --> 00:08:48,240 Speaker 1: But that's almost for stylistic purposes on that front. I mean, 140 00:08:48,240 --> 00:08:52,360 Speaker 1: I just think that this is not They are no 141 00:08:52,480 --> 00:08:55,240 Speaker 1: longer the primary drivers of where people get their information, 142 00:08:55,280 --> 00:08:59,440 Speaker 1: and if anything, it's really the affiliates of these networks 143 00:09:00,280 --> 00:09:04,560 Speaker 1: were the place where people would get more of the 144 00:09:04,640 --> 00:09:07,080 Speaker 1: quote information they were getting from television news than from 145 00:09:07,120 --> 00:09:11,000 Speaker 1: the national side of things. But you've had sort of 146 00:09:11,040 --> 00:09:14,280 Speaker 1: politicians weaponize the national side of things just based on 147 00:09:14,360 --> 00:09:17,560 Speaker 1: you know, Sunday shows or or or a personality they 148 00:09:17,600 --> 00:09:24,480 Speaker 1: didn't like or anything. So so that's what I guess 149 00:09:24,520 --> 00:09:26,840 Speaker 1: when I'm saying, I'm both right, like I think what 150 00:09:27,760 --> 00:09:29,840 Speaker 1: my kind of is more hinting at It's like, hey, 151 00:09:29,920 --> 00:09:33,280 Speaker 1: you know, go for it, CBS, try try something different. 152 00:09:34,640 --> 00:09:38,960 Speaker 1: But I don't think CBS, NBC, or ABC are really 153 00:09:39,000 --> 00:09:42,679 Speaker 1: in the news gathering business anymore. They have a few 154 00:09:42,760 --> 00:09:46,160 Speaker 1: brands that they still are using, but in many cases 155 00:09:46,200 --> 00:09:51,280 Speaker 1: those brands are shape or news shapers rather than necessarily 156 00:09:51,920 --> 00:09:57,320 Speaker 1: news informers. And you know, for that, I think just 157 00:09:57,400 --> 00:10:00,319 Speaker 1: everybody's already I feel like the audience itself is already 158 00:10:00,360 --> 00:10:02,480 Speaker 1: moved on. So in some ways, I feel like this 159 00:10:02,600 --> 00:10:07,839 Speaker 1: debate is about we're debating over something that used to 160 00:10:07,880 --> 00:10:11,160 Speaker 1: have viewership with doesn't anymore anyway. Not trying to be 161 00:10:11,600 --> 00:10:14,120 Speaker 1: like totally just like you know, these grapes are sour type. 162 00:10:14,440 --> 00:10:16,120 Speaker 1: It's not about sour grapes. I don't think there are 163 00:10:16,120 --> 00:10:19,160 Speaker 1: any grapes there. Whether the sour still tastes good, that's 164 00:10:19,160 --> 00:10:21,959 Speaker 1: not the point. It's just they think that the public 165 00:10:22,000 --> 00:10:24,600 Speaker 1: in some ways is sort of it's they kind of 166 00:10:24,679 --> 00:10:29,000 Speaker 1: know that NBC, ABC and CBS are not primary deliverers 167 00:10:29,040 --> 00:10:33,640 Speaker 1: of information anymore period. There entities that host a lot 168 00:10:33,679 --> 00:10:38,600 Speaker 1: of live events mostly sports, but also some big news events, 169 00:10:38,640 --> 00:10:41,920 Speaker 1: State of the Union, election nights, things like that. But 170 00:10:41,960 --> 00:10:46,080 Speaker 1: I'm not sure it really is seen by a vast 171 00:10:46,120 --> 00:10:48,320 Speaker 1: majority of the public as a place to get news, 172 00:10:48,720 --> 00:10:50,480 Speaker 1: even if we're arguing about it. 173 00:10:50,559 --> 00:10:51,800 Speaker 2: Still if that makes sense. 174 00:10:53,280 --> 00:10:56,400 Speaker 1: All. Our next question comes from Michael Hammond and Everett Washington. 175 00:10:56,480 --> 00:10:58,959 Speaker 1: After listening to your episode about the Simpsons, I wondered 176 00:10:59,000 --> 00:11:01,959 Speaker 1: how you think public figures should react to being target 177 00:11:02,200 --> 00:11:04,520 Speaker 1: the target of satire. I remember at least one SNL 178 00:11:04,520 --> 00:11:08,160 Speaker 1: episode where someone portrayed you. Yes, did you find it 179 00:11:08,200 --> 00:11:10,680 Speaker 1: funny or frustrating? More broadly, what advice would you give 180 00:11:10,679 --> 00:11:15,560 Speaker 1: a public figure politician when a comedian takes aim? Michael Hammond, Well, 181 00:11:15,640 --> 00:11:17,960 Speaker 1: number one is you even if you hate it, you 182 00:11:18,000 --> 00:11:18,720 Speaker 1: say you love it. 183 00:11:19,600 --> 00:11:21,920 Speaker 2: You know who did a very good job of this. JD. Vance. 184 00:11:23,160 --> 00:11:27,280 Speaker 2: The second the South Park debuted JD. 185 00:11:27,440 --> 00:11:35,120 Speaker 1: Vance as the little person from Fantasy Island give me, 186 00:11:35,200 --> 00:11:38,559 Speaker 1: give me one second there the character I think was 187 00:11:38,600 --> 00:11:42,720 Speaker 1: named tattoo. If my gen X brain is working here, 188 00:11:44,800 --> 00:11:47,680 Speaker 1: hey boss, right, you know, And it was the whole thing. 189 00:11:48,280 --> 00:11:52,040 Speaker 1: He embraced it and said this is funny or whatever. 190 00:11:52,800 --> 00:11:54,760 Speaker 2: You just right. 191 00:11:55,920 --> 00:11:59,640 Speaker 1: It's when you come across defensive that you just sort 192 00:11:59,640 --> 00:12:00,640 Speaker 1: of opened yourself up. 193 00:12:00,679 --> 00:12:05,520 Speaker 2: Okay, you take a joke. Look, being a. 194 00:12:05,480 --> 00:12:10,000 Speaker 1: Public figure is something when you're not a public figure, 195 00:12:10,080 --> 00:12:12,680 Speaker 1: you think you want it, and then when you become one, 196 00:12:12,760 --> 00:12:14,080 Speaker 1: in any sort of way. 197 00:12:15,080 --> 00:12:16,120 Speaker 2: You find it. 198 00:12:16,120 --> 00:12:19,800 Speaker 1: It can be claustrophobic because suddenly you feel like, well, 199 00:12:19,840 --> 00:12:22,000 Speaker 1: I can't express my opinion anymore, or if I do, 200 00:12:22,120 --> 00:12:24,440 Speaker 1: I'm speaking for too many other people, or I don't 201 00:12:24,440 --> 00:12:26,600 Speaker 1: want to be a target, and all this stuff right, 202 00:12:26,679 --> 00:12:30,400 Speaker 1: it is weirdly it can it can be right because 203 00:12:30,400 --> 00:12:33,240 Speaker 1: the Internet is so cruel and algorithms can make And 204 00:12:33,280 --> 00:12:35,160 Speaker 1: the other part is algorithms can make it feel like 205 00:12:35,200 --> 00:12:38,320 Speaker 1: everybody's talking about you because all you're seeing is what 206 00:12:38,679 --> 00:12:41,120 Speaker 1: is about you. So when you're a public figure, the 207 00:12:41,160 --> 00:12:44,040 Speaker 1: algorithms really can screw with your with your head. 208 00:12:44,600 --> 00:12:45,600 Speaker 2: And this is why. 209 00:12:47,040 --> 00:12:51,200 Speaker 1: In some ways, the you know, the more public figure 210 00:12:51,240 --> 00:12:53,640 Speaker 1: you are, the less you should be on social media 211 00:12:54,080 --> 00:12:59,680 Speaker 1: because you're gonna, you're gonna, it is gonna play play 212 00:12:59,679 --> 00:13:04,680 Speaker 1: tricks with you. The thing that always yes, I was 213 00:13:04,720 --> 00:13:10,080 Speaker 1: portrayed I think twice on SNL was the mocking of 214 00:13:10,120 --> 00:13:14,680 Speaker 1: my hair, which I found amusing because it was true, 215 00:13:14,880 --> 00:13:18,200 Speaker 1: like you know how sometimes what the beauty of satires, 216 00:13:18,240 --> 00:13:23,080 Speaker 1: satirists can figure out pretty quickly, you know, And I 217 00:13:23,400 --> 00:13:26,760 Speaker 1: just look, I don't I don't have my hair's not 218 00:13:26,800 --> 00:13:30,360 Speaker 1: thin enough to do the head shave. But it I'm 219 00:13:30,400 --> 00:13:33,040 Speaker 1: not going to do plugs. I'm not going to do 220 00:13:33,080 --> 00:13:39,080 Speaker 1: any of that stuff. Yes, I tried the coma forward look, 221 00:13:39,320 --> 00:13:41,240 Speaker 1: and now I just have just gone much shorter. As 222 00:13:41,240 --> 00:13:44,880 Speaker 1: you can see. It is what it is, and I'm 223 00:13:44,880 --> 00:13:48,360 Speaker 1: not conceding. I'm never going the head shave. I don't 224 00:13:48,360 --> 00:13:50,280 Speaker 1: think I have the head for it, and I fear 225 00:13:50,320 --> 00:13:53,360 Speaker 1: I have too many chicken pox scars up there, right. 226 00:13:53,440 --> 00:13:55,880 Speaker 1: That's that's that's the real fear that I have about 227 00:13:55,880 --> 00:13:58,120 Speaker 1: going in. But it was I think that was the 228 00:13:58,200 --> 00:14:02,080 Speaker 1: gag and it was the only I found it. I thought, Wow, 229 00:14:02,200 --> 00:14:04,320 Speaker 1: they could only mock me for my hair, so I 230 00:14:04,320 --> 00:14:07,880 Speaker 1: felt pretty good, right, Like they didn't have anything else 231 00:14:07,920 --> 00:14:11,559 Speaker 1: that they were overly mocking me for. So that But 232 00:14:12,000 --> 00:14:14,480 Speaker 1: the easiest thing to do is you just embrace it 233 00:14:14,520 --> 00:14:19,000 Speaker 1: and laugh and like that's funny, or I'm not you 234 00:14:19,040 --> 00:14:21,040 Speaker 1: know a boy, my family's going to enjoy this, or 235 00:14:21,120 --> 00:14:23,600 Speaker 1: my kids thought it was hilarious, Like that's the best 236 00:14:23,600 --> 00:14:27,640 Speaker 1: way to handle it if you start to I'm an 237 00:14:27,680 --> 00:14:30,240 Speaker 1: a hummada hummaa, or try to explain it, or say hey, 238 00:14:30,240 --> 00:14:32,520 Speaker 1: you know what, they don't get this, they don't get Look. 239 00:14:32,880 --> 00:14:36,400 Speaker 1: Do I think I've been unfairly portrayed, essentially in a 240 00:14:36,600 --> 00:14:42,920 Speaker 1: very negative and character assassinated away by specific people in 241 00:14:43,000 --> 00:14:47,560 Speaker 1: primetime on one cable news channel. Yes, I do do. 242 00:14:47,640 --> 00:14:51,280 Speaker 1: I think it was an agenda, purposeful agenda, because I 243 00:14:51,440 --> 00:14:54,840 Speaker 1: was the most credible voice too many on the right 244 00:14:55,080 --> 00:14:57,960 Speaker 1: at a supposed left leaning news network. So it was 245 00:14:57,960 --> 00:15:01,320 Speaker 1: in their interest to try to, uh I try to 246 00:15:01,680 --> 00:15:06,440 Speaker 1: make me, try to try to try to make me 247 00:15:06,640 --> 00:15:10,920 Speaker 1: someone that that was an antagonist to the right, even 248 00:15:10,960 --> 00:15:12,880 Speaker 1: though there was no evidence of it, but they wanted 249 00:15:12,880 --> 00:15:15,320 Speaker 1: to sort of guild my association because they didn't like 250 00:15:15,360 --> 00:15:19,480 Speaker 1: it that Actually, you know, my presence at NBC meant 251 00:15:19,600 --> 00:15:22,080 Speaker 1: it was not a left leaning network, if you know, 252 00:15:22,280 --> 00:15:24,840 Speaker 1: most of us at NBC are just sort of very 253 00:15:25,000 --> 00:15:29,520 Speaker 1: much more in the broad middle. But it was important 254 00:15:29,520 --> 00:15:33,360 Speaker 1: for them to try to paint NBC as is left 255 00:15:33,440 --> 00:15:37,760 Speaker 1: as MSNBC, and the presence of MSNBC, my own personal 256 00:15:37,880 --> 00:15:41,720 Speaker 1: presence on the cable channel certainly made it easier to 257 00:15:41,840 --> 00:15:46,080 Speaker 1: create that caricature. That was a campaign to try to 258 00:15:46,120 --> 00:15:50,760 Speaker 1: delegitimize those of us uh that are that were you know, 259 00:15:50,960 --> 00:15:56,240 Speaker 1: essentially uh undermining whatever propaganda they were trying to sell people, 260 00:15:56,400 --> 00:15:58,160 Speaker 1: and they and they wanted to get rid of that. 261 00:15:58,320 --> 00:16:06,400 Speaker 1: So uh I sort of get you know that was 262 00:16:06,840 --> 00:16:09,440 Speaker 1: that was always like would get under my skin more 263 00:16:09,800 --> 00:16:10,720 Speaker 1: comedic stuff? 264 00:16:10,880 --> 00:16:12,920 Speaker 2: You know? That was that. 265 00:16:13,200 --> 00:16:16,720 Speaker 1: That's nothing on that front. The only thing I wonder 266 00:16:16,760 --> 00:16:19,520 Speaker 1: over the years is if because but I also didn't 267 00:16:19,800 --> 00:16:22,040 Speaker 1: you know, others chose to get in fights with Fox, 268 00:16:22,080 --> 00:16:27,280 Speaker 1: I would not because that's what they wanted, right, And 269 00:16:27,440 --> 00:16:33,560 Speaker 1: so I've always believed in the ropodope. I've always borrowed 270 00:16:33,600 --> 00:16:37,000 Speaker 1: the Muhammad Ali strategy. Go punch yourself out, take as 271 00:16:37,000 --> 00:16:39,120 Speaker 1: many shots as you wanted me. I'm going to continue 272 00:16:39,160 --> 00:16:42,600 Speaker 1: to do to practice what I you know, which is 273 00:16:43,240 --> 00:16:46,080 Speaker 1: covering politics as it is not as I as. 274 00:16:46,080 --> 00:16:49,600 Speaker 2: I wish or you wish it were. Ah. 275 00:16:49,840 --> 00:16:51,560 Speaker 1: Right, next way, Hey, Chuck, care to comment on why 276 00:16:51,600 --> 00:16:54,680 Speaker 1: there is a mass exodus of staff from Heritage Brian? 277 00:16:56,160 --> 00:16:58,160 Speaker 1: I mean, I look, it is what it is. I mean, 278 00:16:58,160 --> 00:17:02,480 Speaker 1: I think the Heritage Foundation. I think this is a 279 00:17:02,520 --> 00:17:07,280 Speaker 1: case where there were the employees where there. Conservative intellects 280 00:17:07,359 --> 00:17:10,399 Speaker 1: have been there for a long time, and you know 281 00:17:10,480 --> 00:17:14,399 Speaker 1: had seen you know, Heritage it's sort of you know shift, 282 00:17:14,520 --> 00:17:18,080 Speaker 1: you know, would sort of shift within the conservative movement. 283 00:17:19,440 --> 00:17:22,119 Speaker 1: You know, it was sort of you know, Heritage was 284 00:17:22,160 --> 00:17:25,040 Speaker 1: always was sort of felt like the heart of the 285 00:17:25,040 --> 00:17:28,040 Speaker 1: Reagan era. And so that's why for those of us 286 00:17:28,040 --> 00:17:30,879 Speaker 1: of a certain age, we certainly view it that way. 287 00:17:31,800 --> 00:17:35,800 Speaker 1: For what was clearly financial reasons, Heritage just pivoted to 288 00:17:35,840 --> 00:17:39,400 Speaker 1: becoming you know, there are sort of two mainstream conservative 289 00:17:39,400 --> 00:17:41,919 Speaker 1: think tanks in DC sort of fighting for supremacy over 290 00:17:41,960 --> 00:17:46,159 Speaker 1: the years, Heritage Foundation and the American Enterprise Institute AI 291 00:17:46,800 --> 00:17:50,120 Speaker 1: sort of became very synonymous with the Bush administration more 292 00:17:50,160 --> 00:17:52,280 Speaker 1: than in Heritage was always sort of a little bit 293 00:17:52,359 --> 00:17:56,040 Speaker 1: more I think one could argue a little more synonymous 294 00:17:56,080 --> 00:18:00,640 Speaker 1: of the old Reagan coalition. And then you know, maybe 295 00:18:00,640 --> 00:18:03,680 Speaker 1: it was donors on the Heritage board, but Heritage really 296 00:18:03,720 --> 00:18:06,120 Speaker 1: shifted to MAGA in a way. And I think it's 297 00:18:06,119 --> 00:18:10,440 Speaker 1: simply because AI sort of became the home of Trump's skeptics, 298 00:18:10,840 --> 00:18:15,400 Speaker 1: not necessarily never Trumpers, but Trump skeptics. My friend Danny Pletka, 299 00:18:16,000 --> 00:18:18,880 Speaker 1: who's over at AI, I put her in the She's 300 00:18:18,880 --> 00:18:23,720 Speaker 1: a conservative. There's a lot of policies that Trump's pushing 301 00:18:23,760 --> 00:18:27,120 Speaker 1: that she can be supportive of, but there's no doubt 302 00:18:27,320 --> 00:18:30,120 Speaker 1: the character and his foreign policy. You know, she's never 303 00:18:30,200 --> 00:18:32,639 Speaker 1: going to be a never Trumper, but she's never I 304 00:18:32,640 --> 00:18:36,159 Speaker 1: don't think going to be a Trump evangelist either. And 305 00:18:36,240 --> 00:18:42,680 Speaker 1: AI has been very home to the neo cons as 306 00:18:42,680 --> 00:18:47,760 Speaker 1: well as home to sort of mainstream pre Trump conservatives, 307 00:18:48,240 --> 00:18:51,240 Speaker 1: and I think they have, you know, sort of. 308 00:18:53,520 --> 00:18:56,160 Speaker 2: I wouldn't call them Trump supporters. I'd call him Trump. 309 00:18:55,920 --> 00:18:58,840 Speaker 1: Adjacent, you know, who are sort of had more comfortable 310 00:18:58,880 --> 00:19:02,159 Speaker 1: with some of his policies than others are. But you know, 311 00:19:02,200 --> 00:19:05,040 Speaker 1: I think that happens sometimes right on the left of 312 00:19:05,080 --> 00:19:07,720 Speaker 1: the Brookings Institute, which is more center left, and you 313 00:19:07,720 --> 00:19:10,800 Speaker 1: have Center for American Progress was just more progressive left, 314 00:19:11,800 --> 00:19:15,360 Speaker 1: and so I think I think Heritage ended up sort 315 00:19:15,359 --> 00:19:17,960 Speaker 1: of becoming more mega, and then the more MAGA went 316 00:19:18,280 --> 00:19:19,760 Speaker 1: over time, I think the more it was going to 317 00:19:19,800 --> 00:19:23,400 Speaker 1: alienate the more traditional conservatives that were over there. When 318 00:19:23,640 --> 00:19:26,520 Speaker 1: Heritage and AI were more like Coke versus PEPSI when 319 00:19:26,520 --> 00:19:30,080 Speaker 1: it came to conservative movement, and now it's it's more 320 00:19:30,200 --> 00:19:34,679 Speaker 1: like I think coke versus lemonade. Right, It's like just 321 00:19:34,680 --> 00:19:41,480 Speaker 1: two distinct drinks that are different. So I suspect that 322 00:19:43,080 --> 00:19:46,600 Speaker 1: Heritage does one of two things. Either in a in 323 00:19:46,600 --> 00:19:54,159 Speaker 1: a post Trump environment, is re animated with by conservatives 324 00:19:54,160 --> 00:19:56,960 Speaker 1: who want to bring back the brand to mean the 325 00:19:57,000 --> 00:20:01,520 Speaker 1: Reagan Coalition, or it becomes anonymous. It sort of becomes 326 00:20:01,560 --> 00:20:05,480 Speaker 1: the Maga think tank, though I thought the American Conservative 327 00:20:05,520 --> 00:20:07,240 Speaker 1: was going to try to do that. So you know, 328 00:20:07,280 --> 00:20:10,000 Speaker 1: there really is yet to be a true intellectual home 329 00:20:10,800 --> 00:20:14,480 Speaker 1: completely for mega movement, and whether there is an intellectual 330 00:20:14,520 --> 00:20:16,919 Speaker 1: through line of the mega movement that allows for a 331 00:20:17,000 --> 00:20:20,200 Speaker 1: think tank to flourish, to me, might be a larger question. 332 00:20:23,359 --> 00:20:26,120 Speaker 2: This episode of the Chuck Podcast is brought to you by. 333 00:20:26,080 --> 00:20:29,679 Speaker 1: Quints, and I love me some Quints. New Year, Colder Days. 334 00:20:29,960 --> 00:20:32,800 Speaker 1: This is the moment your winter wardrobe really has to deliver. 335 00:20:32,920 --> 00:20:35,840 Speaker 1: If you're craving a winter reset, start with pieces truly 336 00:20:35,880 --> 00:20:40,160 Speaker 1: made to last season after season. 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So refresher winter 358 00:21:46,200 --> 00:21:49,560 Speaker 1: wardrobe with Quint's Go to quints dot com, slash chuck 359 00:21:49,720 --> 00:21:52,119 Speaker 1: for free shipping on your order and three hundred and 360 00:21:52,119 --> 00:21:54,959 Speaker 1: sixty five day returns, and it's also available in Canada. 361 00:21:55,000 --> 00:21:59,719 Speaker 1: That's qui nce dot com slash chuck free shipping and 362 00:21:59,840 --> 00:22:03,640 Speaker 1: three hundred and sixty five day returns quints dot com 363 00:22:03,680 --> 00:22:10,600 Speaker 1: slash Chuck. Next question comes from Ben from Minneapolis. Hey, Chuck, 364 00:22:10,600 --> 00:22:13,520 Speaker 1: I was just listening to the podcast about predictive markets 365 00:22:13,520 --> 00:22:15,680 Speaker 1: and that conversation. While I don't participate in the markets, 366 00:22:15,800 --> 00:22:18,439 Speaker 1: I wonder how CNN is incorporating the data any different 367 00:22:18,480 --> 00:22:20,560 Speaker 1: than any other sports coverage. The betting houses seem to 368 00:22:20,600 --> 00:22:23,760 Speaker 1: have infected our sports viewing with nothing but betting. Just wondering, 369 00:22:24,040 --> 00:22:27,640 Speaker 1: Ben from Minneapolis. You know this is my concern about it. Right, 370 00:22:27,720 --> 00:22:30,480 Speaker 1: are we going to cover the you know, there's a 371 00:22:30,520 --> 00:22:32,800 Speaker 1: you know, the president's going to appoint a new FED chair. 372 00:22:34,160 --> 00:22:36,760 Speaker 1: Two of the names that you hear Kevin Hassett, Kevin Walsh. 373 00:22:37,880 --> 00:22:41,560 Speaker 1: Here's what the prediction markets are claiming. What the hell 374 00:22:41,600 --> 00:22:43,359 Speaker 1: does that tell us? Do you know what the prediction 375 00:22:43,440 --> 00:22:50,919 Speaker 1: markets for Wosh versus Hassett are? You know how that 376 00:22:51,000 --> 00:22:53,720 Speaker 1: why they move? They move based on mainstream media reporting. 377 00:22:54,800 --> 00:23:00,560 Speaker 1: So that's the stuff that I'm sort of skeptical of 378 00:23:01,040 --> 00:23:06,679 Speaker 1: the prediction markets being of service to the viewer. On 379 00:23:06,760 --> 00:23:13,200 Speaker 1: that front, I guess I'll be curious how they try 380 00:23:13,200 --> 00:23:16,320 Speaker 1: to incorporate it in their coverage of elections. You know, 381 00:23:18,760 --> 00:23:22,000 Speaker 1: I could see, you know, I could see CNN rationalizing 382 00:23:22,040 --> 00:23:24,120 Speaker 1: itself by saying, Okay, we're going to cover the Senate race, 383 00:23:24,160 --> 00:23:24,440 Speaker 1: and so. 384 00:23:24,440 --> 00:23:27,720 Speaker 2: We'll use we'll use Calshe's. 385 00:23:29,040 --> 00:23:32,119 Speaker 1: You know, right now, the prediction markets indicate, you know, 386 00:23:32,600 --> 00:23:38,640 Speaker 1: just thirty two percent, you know, thirty two percent think 387 00:23:39,160 --> 00:23:41,240 Speaker 1: Democrats are going to win the Senate or are betting 388 00:23:41,240 --> 00:23:44,119 Speaker 1: on Democrats winning control of the Senate, versus sixty eight 389 00:23:44,160 --> 00:23:47,760 Speaker 1: percent that are not I don't see how that's useful 390 00:23:47,800 --> 00:23:52,159 Speaker 1: to viewers, but that I assume that's the way they 391 00:23:52,160 --> 00:23:57,879 Speaker 1: try to incorporate it. You know, do you incorporate it 392 00:23:57,920 --> 00:24:01,119 Speaker 1: if you're doing a story about Venezuela and I noticed 393 00:24:01,160 --> 00:24:03,880 Speaker 1: that there's a couple of you know, Maduro will leave, 394 00:24:04,640 --> 00:24:08,000 Speaker 1: you know, we'll be out of power before Memorial Day 395 00:24:08,240 --> 00:24:11,159 Speaker 1: twenty twenty six or will be out of power after 396 00:24:11,280 --> 00:24:13,440 Speaker 1: June first of twenty twenty sixth or something like that. 397 00:24:16,040 --> 00:24:19,040 Speaker 1: I don't I don't think that's relevant to the average 398 00:24:19,080 --> 00:24:21,840 Speaker 1: news consumer. I don't know what how that helps you 399 00:24:22,359 --> 00:24:27,400 Speaker 1: understand things, because again, these prediction markets are just are 400 00:24:27,960 --> 00:24:31,439 Speaker 1: They're all based on you know, if it's based on 401 00:24:31,480 --> 00:24:34,080 Speaker 1: insider information, then it's rigged, and if it's not, it's 402 00:24:34,080 --> 00:24:41,280 Speaker 1: just based on publicly available information. So this is why 403 00:24:41,320 --> 00:24:44,199 Speaker 1: I'm not I'm very curious how they use it. 404 00:24:46,720 --> 00:24:52,520 Speaker 2: You know, I will. 405 00:24:50,160 --> 00:24:52,120 Speaker 1: I you know, it's funny. It's like, I guess I'm 406 00:24:52,160 --> 00:24:54,679 Speaker 1: okay with it. For making long term bets on who 407 00:24:54,760 --> 00:24:59,399 Speaker 1: might be the presidential nominee for the two parties, that 408 00:24:59,440 --> 00:25:04,960 Speaker 1: doesn't feel like a manipulative process. But betting on the 409 00:25:05,000 --> 00:25:07,720 Speaker 1: appointment of the FED chair weirdly does to me. Or 410 00:25:07,720 --> 00:25:10,600 Speaker 1: betting on when Maduro gets ousted just feels, you know, 411 00:25:10,960 --> 00:25:13,399 Speaker 1: if it's something people want to spend money on doing, 412 00:25:14,720 --> 00:25:15,320 Speaker 1: so be it. 413 00:25:16,080 --> 00:25:17,000 Speaker 2: I don't know why. 414 00:25:17,040 --> 00:25:21,840 Speaker 1: It's a news story, which would which incorporating Calsh, you know, 415 00:25:22,080 --> 00:25:27,600 Speaker 1: for Calci, I get what they want out of it's advertising, okay, great, 416 00:25:27,960 --> 00:25:31,880 Speaker 1: And my guess is they've just you know, they've basically 417 00:25:31,920 --> 00:25:33,480 Speaker 1: become a title sponsor of something. 418 00:25:35,080 --> 00:25:36,760 Speaker 2: Okay. Uh. 419 00:25:37,119 --> 00:25:40,000 Speaker 1: Basically, it's no different than doing an internet poll. It's like, 420 00:25:40,040 --> 00:25:42,280 Speaker 1: you know, who should be Time Person of the Year. Well, 421 00:25:42,320 --> 00:25:45,840 Speaker 1: we did an internet poll and this is who they said. 422 00:25:46,240 --> 00:25:47,440 Speaker 2: Here are the prediction markets. 423 00:25:47,800 --> 00:25:53,360 Speaker 1: You know, I'm I'm I'm trying to be talked into 424 00:25:53,440 --> 00:25:57,000 Speaker 1: caring on this and that it will help. I just 425 00:25:57,320 --> 00:25:59,040 Speaker 1: I had somebody say to me, well, the prediction markets 426 00:25:59,040 --> 00:26:01,480 Speaker 1: are going to get politics better than polling. Well, and 427 00:26:01,520 --> 00:26:04,480 Speaker 1: I'm like, the prediction markets are only you know, they're 428 00:26:04,760 --> 00:26:08,040 Speaker 1: on all the campaign stuff. It's all influenced by polling. 429 00:26:08,600 --> 00:26:11,680 Speaker 1: When a poll shows a race closer than number moves 430 00:26:12,280 --> 00:26:14,760 Speaker 1: so I, you know, in the direction of the poll 431 00:26:14,840 --> 00:26:17,639 Speaker 1: was showing. So I don't see how that's going to 432 00:26:17,720 --> 00:26:21,000 Speaker 1: make us. You know that it's going to make it 433 00:26:21,080 --> 00:26:25,560 Speaker 1: quote unquote more accurate. Maybe it'll be more accurate for 434 00:26:25,600 --> 00:26:28,639 Speaker 1: people that don't follow it closely. But if you're somebody 435 00:26:28,680 --> 00:26:30,840 Speaker 1: like me who does this for a living, you know, 436 00:26:32,400 --> 00:26:34,920 Speaker 1: you never let a poll that showed a tide race 437 00:26:35,040 --> 00:26:37,280 Speaker 1: in a red state make you think that, oh, it's 438 00:26:37,400 --> 00:26:38,720 Speaker 1: truly a fifty to fifty race. 439 00:26:39,280 --> 00:26:40,920 Speaker 2: No, it's still a sixty. 440 00:26:40,600 --> 00:26:44,480 Speaker 1: To forty probability outcome of a red state saying red, 441 00:26:44,520 --> 00:26:46,520 Speaker 1: even if a pole shows it tide. 442 00:26:47,920 --> 00:26:49,800 Speaker 2: Anyway. But I digress. 443 00:26:51,080 --> 00:26:56,600 Speaker 1: Next question comes from Jim in the Poconos, and he 444 00:26:56,640 --> 00:27:00,440 Speaker 1: also had circle the wagons Buffalo bills. All right, he says, 445 00:27:00,480 --> 00:27:02,200 Speaker 1: is how long does it take for a presidential term 446 00:27:02,240 --> 00:27:04,720 Speaker 1: to become irrelevant? If ever, I think about how my 447 00:27:04,800 --> 00:27:07,719 Speaker 1: great great grandparents shaped where I am today, even if 448 00:27:07,760 --> 00:27:11,360 Speaker 1: I barely knew know anything about them. Does something similar 449 00:27:11,359 --> 00:27:12,320 Speaker 1: happen with presidents? 450 00:27:12,880 --> 00:27:13,040 Speaker 2: Well? 451 00:27:13,080 --> 00:27:15,399 Speaker 1: I think they do, and it is interesting to me. 452 00:27:17,119 --> 00:27:19,760 Speaker 1: Let me, I'm gonna introduce you to a different exercise, 453 00:27:19,880 --> 00:27:23,280 Speaker 1: but it's a different topic, but it's a similar exercise. 454 00:27:26,400 --> 00:27:27,960 Speaker 2: And I heard it was an. 455 00:27:27,840 --> 00:27:32,400 Speaker 1: Interview with Chuck Klosterman maybe four years ago, five years ago. 456 00:27:33,000 --> 00:27:36,800 Speaker 1: I've interviewed him on previous iterations of this podcast, and 457 00:27:37,600 --> 00:27:41,840 Speaker 1: I enjoy his interviews with Simmons. Bill Simmons, and I 458 00:27:41,880 --> 00:27:44,800 Speaker 1: read his You know, he's a few years younger than me, 459 00:27:44,840 --> 00:27:47,800 Speaker 1: but I feel like he's he's the gen X pop 460 00:27:47,880 --> 00:27:53,760 Speaker 1: culture writer, right, He's my generation's pop culture writer. And 461 00:27:55,440 --> 00:27:57,800 Speaker 1: you know, he made the point of saying, you know, 462 00:27:58,640 --> 00:28:02,399 Speaker 1: two hundred years from now, there's only going to be 463 00:28:02,440 --> 00:28:05,200 Speaker 1: one artist that represents rock and roll. 464 00:28:05,359 --> 00:28:06,439 Speaker 2: Who will that artist be? 465 00:28:09,280 --> 00:28:11,040 Speaker 1: And because he was saying that, it's like, you know, 466 00:28:11,080 --> 00:28:15,040 Speaker 1: over time that you know, more people fall off, and truly, 467 00:28:15,200 --> 00:28:17,000 Speaker 1: you know, after one hundred years. 468 00:28:17,320 --> 00:28:18,480 Speaker 2: You know, only. 469 00:28:19,720 --> 00:28:21,960 Speaker 1: Only a couple of people stand the test of time 470 00:28:22,000 --> 00:28:25,479 Speaker 1: after two hundred years, even fewer. Right, Like Beethoven and 471 00:28:25,520 --> 00:28:28,520 Speaker 1: Mozart weren't the only composers of their era. They were 472 00:28:28,600 --> 00:28:31,040 Speaker 1: the most famous composers of their era. And as we 473 00:28:31,160 --> 00:28:35,120 Speaker 1: learned with Nomadeus, there were other composers out there, Sally Hary, etcetera. Right, 474 00:28:35,359 --> 00:28:37,800 Speaker 1: there was a whole bunch of people writing music all 475 00:28:37,800 --> 00:28:41,200 Speaker 1: the time back then, right, but only one or two, 476 00:28:41,320 --> 00:28:44,280 Speaker 1: right and so and I remember going through that question, 477 00:28:44,360 --> 00:28:46,560 Speaker 1: and his thesis was it would be Chuck Berry that, 478 00:28:46,880 --> 00:28:49,440 Speaker 1: you know, two hundred and fifty years from now, that 479 00:28:49,760 --> 00:28:53,160 Speaker 1: Chuck Berry, more than the Beatles, might actually be the 480 00:28:53,560 --> 00:28:55,760 Speaker 1: you know, and maybe the Beatles are in paragraph two, 481 00:28:55,800 --> 00:28:59,840 Speaker 1: but that Chuck Berry, who you know, is the godfather 482 00:28:59,880 --> 00:29:01,920 Speaker 1: of rock and roll, founder, whatever you want to call him. 483 00:29:02,040 --> 00:29:06,360 Speaker 1: I mean, I believe he is a patient zero of 484 00:29:06,440 --> 00:29:09,960 Speaker 1: rock and roll, if you want to look at it 485 00:29:09,960 --> 00:29:12,680 Speaker 1: in those terms. And I guess the point is is 486 00:29:12,760 --> 00:29:17,360 Speaker 1: that over time, right, we thin out, So you know, 487 00:29:18,160 --> 00:29:20,880 Speaker 1: look at how few presidents And the other thing is 488 00:29:21,160 --> 00:29:22,280 Speaker 1: how long were you president? 489 00:29:22,360 --> 00:29:23,320 Speaker 2: Matters? Right? 490 00:29:26,640 --> 00:29:33,120 Speaker 1: Calvin Coolidge, you know, he's barely I don't think anybody's 491 00:29:33,160 --> 00:29:37,160 Speaker 1: going to know who Calvin Coolidge is by the year 492 00:29:37,200 --> 00:29:41,720 Speaker 1: twenty one hundred, right, because by then we'll have at 493 00:29:41,880 --> 00:29:49,160 Speaker 1: least nine more presidents, you know, right, at a minimum 494 00:29:49,240 --> 00:29:52,040 Speaker 1: if you assume eight years seventy two, right, you know, 495 00:29:52,640 --> 00:29:57,920 Speaker 1: so so nine or ten more presidents max, maybe more? Right, 496 00:29:58,080 --> 00:30:02,360 Speaker 1: we could have as many as twenty more presidents. Right, 497 00:30:02,440 --> 00:30:05,160 Speaker 1: So there's that. But I've thought about this. Think about 498 00:30:05,160 --> 00:30:10,000 Speaker 1: Grover Cleveland. Right when he was elected, the first president 499 00:30:10,280 --> 00:30:13,640 Speaker 1: elected in non consecutive terms. He wasn't the first one 500 00:30:13,640 --> 00:30:15,840 Speaker 1: that tried to come back and win it. This first 501 00:30:15,880 --> 00:30:21,280 Speaker 1: one that succeeded. I'm sure the Chuck Todd's of the 502 00:30:21,320 --> 00:30:24,760 Speaker 1: world back then, and the Steve Krnaki's of the world 503 00:30:24,800 --> 00:30:27,560 Speaker 1: back then, the Jonathan Martin's of the world back then, 504 00:30:27,760 --> 00:30:29,760 Speaker 1: the Maggie Haberman's of the world back then, we all 505 00:30:30,120 --> 00:30:32,200 Speaker 1: all thought, boy, this Grover Cleveland man, this is going 506 00:30:32,240 --> 00:30:33,520 Speaker 1: to be a historic This is going to be an 507 00:30:33,560 --> 00:30:36,800 Speaker 1: historic presidency. This presidency's going to live a long time, right, 508 00:30:37,280 --> 00:30:40,440 Speaker 1: and other than the unique fact that he served non 509 00:30:40,440 --> 00:30:46,200 Speaker 1: consecutive terms and sharing the name of another baseball player 510 00:30:46,280 --> 00:30:51,320 Speaker 1: named Grover Cleveland, Alexander right, who was clearly named after him. 511 00:30:51,480 --> 00:30:56,640 Speaker 2: But what kind of what kind of legacy is there left? Right? 512 00:30:56,880 --> 00:31:04,840 Speaker 2: So it probably. 513 00:31:04,440 --> 00:31:08,600 Speaker 1: Takes as long as it takes for our great grandparents 514 00:31:08,640 --> 00:31:10,560 Speaker 1: to be you know, I when I was born, I 515 00:31:10,560 --> 00:31:13,360 Speaker 1: had three living great grandparents. I have memories of three 516 00:31:13,480 --> 00:31:20,160 Speaker 1: great grandparents. The last great grandparent in my life died 517 00:31:20,200 --> 00:31:25,400 Speaker 1: when I was thirteen, and I think about this, right, 518 00:31:25,440 --> 00:31:27,760 Speaker 1: you know, when they were born and the life they 519 00:31:27,840 --> 00:31:34,760 Speaker 1: led and all this stuff. And you know, I'm trying 520 00:31:34,800 --> 00:31:39,000 Speaker 1: to remember the last time I had I thought about 521 00:31:39,840 --> 00:31:43,600 Speaker 1: either great grandmother. Right, It's been a while, and you 522 00:31:43,640 --> 00:31:46,400 Speaker 1: do when you're around family, and that happens, and that's 523 00:31:46,400 --> 00:31:50,360 Speaker 1: when the you know, but the minute somebody when there's 524 00:31:50,440 --> 00:31:54,080 Speaker 1: no longer anybody alive who knew that person, I think 525 00:31:54,720 --> 00:31:58,600 Speaker 1: that's probably when the sell by date is there, unless 526 00:31:58,640 --> 00:32:02,200 Speaker 1: you've made your mark in war or something, right, And 527 00:32:02,360 --> 00:32:07,640 Speaker 1: so that takes about one hundred years. So, Mike, I 528 00:32:07,680 --> 00:32:12,040 Speaker 1: think that the historical shelf life for an average president 529 00:32:12,200 --> 00:32:16,000 Speaker 1: is about one hundred years. And if you're if you're 530 00:32:16,040 --> 00:32:19,400 Speaker 1: sort of above average, either in bad or good, your 531 00:32:19,400 --> 00:32:22,320 Speaker 1: shelf life might be an additional fifty or so, or 532 00:32:22,400 --> 00:32:26,840 Speaker 1: maybe maybe it keeps going if you're the first president, 533 00:32:27,200 --> 00:32:30,200 Speaker 1: keeps going, if you're the president that brought the union 534 00:32:30,280 --> 00:32:36,360 Speaker 1: back together. But you know, I'll give you a I'll 535 00:32:36,360 --> 00:32:38,360 Speaker 1: give you just a you know, let's say world War 536 00:32:38,440 --> 00:32:42,239 Speaker 1: three breaks out, and world War three is bigger and 537 00:32:42,320 --> 00:32:44,920 Speaker 1: more and more consequential. 538 00:32:44,400 --> 00:32:45,120 Speaker 2: Than World War Two. 539 00:32:47,800 --> 00:32:50,240 Speaker 1: Remember, world War One was referred to as the Great War. 540 00:32:50,800 --> 00:32:52,000 Speaker 1: We never thought there'd be a. 541 00:32:52,120 --> 00:32:55,040 Speaker 2: Two, right, it got us, you know, world War two. 542 00:32:56,240 --> 00:32:58,120 Speaker 1: World War one became world War one because we got 543 00:32:58,160 --> 00:33:01,840 Speaker 1: world War two. So the point is is that world 544 00:33:01,840 --> 00:33:05,080 Speaker 1: War one became less relevant in how we were teaching 545 00:33:05,120 --> 00:33:07,200 Speaker 1: it and how we looked at it. In fact, two 546 00:33:07,480 --> 00:33:10,120 Speaker 1: irrelevant as far as I'm concerned, right, we don't. 547 00:33:10,480 --> 00:33:12,680 Speaker 2: You know, today's problems in the Middle East are due 548 00:33:12,720 --> 00:33:13,360 Speaker 2: to the. 549 00:33:13,200 --> 00:33:16,160 Speaker 1: Lack of resolution of World War One with the Ottoman Empire. 550 00:33:17,800 --> 00:33:20,960 Speaker 1: But if you look at that phenomenon, right, The point 551 00:33:20,960 --> 00:33:24,360 Speaker 1: being is world War two will shrink in importance and 552 00:33:24,400 --> 00:33:34,520 Speaker 1: relevance if we have another global war that that reshapes 553 00:33:34,600 --> 00:33:37,920 Speaker 1: the world order, right, and then suddenly, you know, there 554 00:33:37,960 --> 00:33:41,040 Speaker 1: was a time one hundred years Wars was front and center, you. 555 00:33:41,040 --> 00:33:41,600 Speaker 2: See, Right. 556 00:33:41,720 --> 00:33:44,720 Speaker 1: The point is is that you're asking and so it's 557 00:33:44,760 --> 00:33:49,320 Speaker 1: like any historical event. But I think ultimately, when there's 558 00:33:49,320 --> 00:33:52,280 Speaker 1: no longer anybody alive that can tell you what happened 559 00:33:52,280 --> 00:33:55,280 Speaker 1: when that president was in office is when I think 560 00:33:55,320 --> 00:34:01,240 Speaker 1: they become officially in the dust bin of history, unless 561 00:34:01,280 --> 00:34:05,480 Speaker 1: they were remarkable extra remarkable in some way or the other. 562 00:34:07,560 --> 00:34:09,359 Speaker 1: All right, next question. Maybe you'll want to save this 563 00:34:09,400 --> 00:34:11,799 Speaker 1: for your alternate history episodes at the end of the year, 564 00:34:12,080 --> 00:34:14,160 Speaker 1: or I will answer it right now. But what if 565 00:34:14,239 --> 00:34:16,319 Speaker 1: Joe Biden had come to office pledging only to serve 566 00:34:16,320 --> 00:34:19,320 Speaker 1: one term dedicated to reforming the presidency and the Congress 567 00:34:19,320 --> 00:34:22,680 Speaker 1: and improving our democracy. I'm imagining an inauguration speech focused 568 00:34:22,680 --> 00:34:25,359 Speaker 1: on pledging to turn norms into laws, towarding a future 569 00:34:25,400 --> 00:34:28,480 Speaker 1: president with autocratic aspirations by strengthening the power of Congress. 570 00:34:28,640 --> 00:34:30,680 Speaker 1: What could this version of Joe Biden achieved? Jud b 571 00:34:30,800 --> 00:34:34,600 Speaker 1: from Saint George Utah. Well, I hope you now that 572 00:34:34,640 --> 00:34:37,120 Speaker 1: I'm answering this question for you. I hope you did 573 00:34:37,160 --> 00:34:40,960 Speaker 1: hear my what if on on how Biden's presidency could 574 00:34:40,960 --> 00:34:46,040 Speaker 1: have been different without you know, if Trump concedes normally, 575 00:34:47,640 --> 00:34:50,520 Speaker 1: and how much does his presidency differed. Look, he did 576 00:34:50,560 --> 00:34:56,080 Speaker 1: pursue a democracy agenda. Just he did it poorly, right, 577 00:34:56,280 --> 00:34:58,200 Speaker 1: I think it was done. I think he did it, 578 00:34:58,320 --> 00:35:00,000 Speaker 1: unfortunately not in a bipartisan way. 579 00:35:00,080 --> 00:35:00,680 Speaker 2: I think he did it. 580 00:35:01,360 --> 00:35:03,319 Speaker 1: He sort of let it get hijacked by sort of 581 00:35:03,400 --> 00:35:05,720 Speaker 1: the fever dream of those on the left that wanted 582 00:35:05,719 --> 00:35:09,120 Speaker 1: certain things. Well, this is the time we can get 583 00:35:09,120 --> 00:35:12,160 Speaker 1: this into law, rather than actually responding to the threat 584 00:35:12,200 --> 00:35:17,919 Speaker 1: that we were that we all felt in the moment. Look, 585 00:35:18,120 --> 00:35:21,640 Speaker 1: do I think I know why Biden didn't pledge one 586 00:35:21,760 --> 00:35:25,319 Speaker 1: term and why nobody will run pledging a single term 587 00:35:25,760 --> 00:35:28,400 Speaker 1: because you become a lame duck immediately, Right, that's the 588 00:35:28,440 --> 00:35:33,719 Speaker 1: fear that you don't have the influence, et cetera. Perhaps 589 00:35:33,800 --> 00:35:37,440 Speaker 1: Trump's aggressive second term, where we know he can't win again. 590 00:35:38,200 --> 00:35:38,359 Speaker 2: Is. 591 00:35:39,960 --> 00:35:46,360 Speaker 1: Gives reminds people that you know you if you nothing 592 00:35:46,440 --> 00:35:49,440 Speaker 1: prevents a president from fighting lame duck status if they 593 00:35:49,520 --> 00:35:55,720 Speaker 1: choose to just insert themselves into the popular culture, embed 594 00:35:55,840 --> 00:35:58,080 Speaker 1: themselves constantly into every conversation. 595 00:35:58,880 --> 00:36:03,120 Speaker 2: So, whatever you think of Trump, he has cracked the code. 596 00:36:03,160 --> 00:36:06,560 Speaker 1: Like now, it's not a comfortable code for our previous presidents, 597 00:36:06,760 --> 00:36:09,680 Speaker 1: but he's cracked the code on how you avoid lame 598 00:36:09,760 --> 00:36:13,239 Speaker 1: duck status if you're willing to engage in almost any 599 00:36:13,320 --> 00:36:18,560 Speaker 1: issue at any time, in any format. He constantly is 600 00:36:18,560 --> 00:36:22,920 Speaker 1: trying to keep himself relevant. So if you're going to 601 00:36:22,920 --> 00:36:24,880 Speaker 1: pledge me one term, you have to have the I 602 00:36:24,920 --> 00:36:27,680 Speaker 1: think you have to be willing to really be an 603 00:36:28,040 --> 00:36:32,600 Speaker 1: all always on president. You know, I still think the 604 00:36:32,640 --> 00:36:35,160 Speaker 1: failure of the Biden presidency was his inability to be 605 00:36:35,320 --> 00:36:38,160 Speaker 1: Joe Biden. What do I mean by that? That Joe 606 00:36:38,200 --> 00:36:43,239 Speaker 1: Biden I knew and I covered from And when I 607 00:36:43,239 --> 00:36:46,719 Speaker 1: say I covered, I covered starting in two thousand. I 608 00:36:46,760 --> 00:36:50,360 Speaker 1: certainly started covering Biden going back to ninety two, but 609 00:36:50,440 --> 00:36:52,920 Speaker 1: I didn't physically, you know, I didn't start to at 610 00:36:53,000 --> 00:36:55,279 Speaker 1: least know him a little bit and then over time 611 00:36:55,360 --> 00:36:58,359 Speaker 1: know him more and more really until two thousand when 612 00:36:58,680 --> 00:37:00,440 Speaker 1: and then when he started running for isn't it the 613 00:37:01,000 --> 00:37:02,600 Speaker 1: third the second and third time. 614 00:37:03,960 --> 00:37:04,120 Speaker 2: And. 615 00:37:05,640 --> 00:37:08,719 Speaker 1: That Joe Biden was going to travel the country a ton. 616 00:37:08,840 --> 00:37:14,040 Speaker 1: That Joe Biden would have been a very charismatic president. 617 00:37:14,160 --> 00:37:15,879 Speaker 1: I think that Joe Biden would have been a very 618 00:37:15,920 --> 00:37:20,480 Speaker 1: active president. We got a very inactive Joe Biden. He 619 00:37:20,600 --> 00:37:22,319 Speaker 1: was not the same guy. He did not have the 620 00:37:22,320 --> 00:37:26,200 Speaker 1: same energy, and it's a shame, you know, Joe Biden 621 00:37:26,760 --> 00:37:30,160 Speaker 1: is you know, there's this expression nobody uses anymore. So 622 00:37:30,160 --> 00:37:33,720 Speaker 1: this is going to age me affable. That's Joe Biden. 623 00:37:33,880 --> 00:37:37,920 Speaker 1: He is the he's he was affable. He could get 624 00:37:37,920 --> 00:37:42,839 Speaker 1: along with anybody. It was actually his great gift. He 625 00:37:42,880 --> 00:37:48,160 Speaker 1: could get along with with anybody in any class. And 626 00:37:48,239 --> 00:37:52,000 Speaker 1: it is what made him so popular among Amtrak employees. 627 00:37:52,160 --> 00:37:53,479 Speaker 2: It's what made him sort of. 628 00:37:53,800 --> 00:37:56,560 Speaker 1: You know, you know, he's the guy that just enjoys 629 00:37:56,560 --> 00:37:59,319 Speaker 1: a good ice cream cone, like it, you know, and 630 00:37:59,440 --> 00:38:02,719 Speaker 1: so and it was that Biden that wasn't. 631 00:38:03,000 --> 00:38:05,920 Speaker 2: Able to be president twenty one. 632 00:38:06,040 --> 00:38:07,880 Speaker 1: And you know, I go, look, I think the original 633 00:38:07,960 --> 00:38:10,279 Speaker 1: sin was running in the first place, was running when 634 00:38:10,320 --> 00:38:12,200 Speaker 1: he had all that family drama taking place, and when 635 00:38:12,239 --> 00:38:19,120 Speaker 1: it turned out that you know, look, Joe Biden's presidency 636 00:38:19,160 --> 00:38:22,160 Speaker 1: was kind of like the Philip Rivers experiment, right with 637 00:38:22,239 --> 00:38:25,759 Speaker 1: the Colts. It looked like a presidency. It looked like 638 00:38:25,800 --> 00:38:27,719 Speaker 1: a guy quarterbacking. 639 00:38:29,200 --> 00:38:32,520 Speaker 2: But did Philip Rivers win a game? Right? 640 00:38:32,560 --> 00:38:35,480 Speaker 1: What was the what was the River's record? It he 641 00:38:35,600 --> 00:38:39,560 Speaker 1: was a functional quarterback. Biden was a functional president. But 642 00:38:39,640 --> 00:38:41,640 Speaker 1: it wasn't the best version of Joe Biden. It wasn't 643 00:38:41,640 --> 00:38:42,840 Speaker 1: the best version of Philip. 644 00:38:42,680 --> 00:38:49,880 Speaker 2: Rivers anyway, So I go there on that front for 645 00:38:49,960 --> 00:38:53,480 Speaker 2: what it's worth, but I appreciate it. 646 00:39:01,200 --> 00:39:02,920 Speaker 1: Just the thought of a what if scenario? What if 647 00:39:02,960 --> 00:39:10,880 Speaker 1: Russia never sold Alaska to the United States, and I 648 00:39:10,920 --> 00:39:16,200 Speaker 1: think we would have forty nine states, Actually I really do. 649 00:39:16,800 --> 00:39:20,160 Speaker 1: Maybe maybe Canada ends up with Alaska? 650 00:39:21,400 --> 00:39:22,560 Speaker 2: Right? Have we thought about. 651 00:39:22,360 --> 00:39:26,840 Speaker 1: That that that might have been more of a possibility. 652 00:39:26,960 --> 00:39:30,480 Speaker 1: Do we if we couldn't get Alaska, do we go 653 00:39:30,520 --> 00:39:33,719 Speaker 1: and make the attempt at Greenland? 654 00:39:34,120 --> 00:39:34,279 Speaker 2: You know? 655 00:39:34,320 --> 00:39:36,480 Speaker 1: One of my favorite stories in the Grant book by 656 00:39:36,520 --> 00:39:41,160 Speaker 1: Ron schernow was was the was learning about America the 657 00:39:41,200 --> 00:39:45,480 Speaker 1: obsession of some Republicans in Congress to to get Canada 658 00:39:45,560 --> 00:39:49,160 Speaker 1: as reparations for the Brits supporting the Confederacy during the 659 00:39:49,160 --> 00:39:55,520 Speaker 1: Civil War. Meaning we almost got Canada as a state, right, 660 00:39:55,560 --> 00:39:57,239 Speaker 1: we almost made Cuba state. 661 00:39:57,560 --> 00:40:00,319 Speaker 2: After the Spanish American War. You know, so h. 662 00:40:02,080 --> 00:40:05,960 Speaker 1: I I you know, you know that's an interesting does 663 00:40:06,000 --> 00:40:09,279 Speaker 1: it does? It means we would have had during the 664 00:40:09,280 --> 00:40:14,200 Speaker 1: Cold War one of the largest bases would have been 665 00:40:14,239 --> 00:40:20,320 Speaker 1: a Canadian a joint Canadian American base in Western Canada. 666 00:40:21,520 --> 00:40:24,080 Speaker 1: It's sort of the front lines against the Soviets. 667 00:40:24,320 --> 00:40:24,560 Speaker 2: Right. 668 00:40:27,080 --> 00:40:30,400 Speaker 1: I guess it could have been something like that, But 669 00:40:30,520 --> 00:40:34,000 Speaker 1: that's a fun that's a fun one. On that front, 670 00:40:36,239 --> 00:40:40,319 Speaker 1: I wonder if it would be. Here's a question that 671 00:40:40,440 --> 00:40:44,600 Speaker 1: I don't that i'd like to explore with a with 672 00:40:44,719 --> 00:40:49,280 Speaker 1: a sort of historical geologist, if if something like that exists, 673 00:40:49,320 --> 00:40:52,759 Speaker 1: which I'm sure it does, because there's a which would 674 00:40:52,800 --> 00:40:58,840 Speaker 1: be would Alaska resources? Would the Russians have built the pipeline? 675 00:40:59,680 --> 00:41:04,920 Speaker 1: Would the Russians have exploited the natural resources of Alaska 676 00:41:06,000 --> 00:41:08,560 Speaker 1: more than the United States has, less than the United 677 00:41:08,600 --> 00:41:12,840 Speaker 1: States has? Would it just be an even their version 678 00:41:13,560 --> 00:41:14,800 Speaker 1: of would it be Siberia? 679 00:41:14,880 --> 00:41:18,360 Speaker 2: Siberia? Right? Those would be sort of some of the 680 00:41:18,440 --> 00:41:19,760 Speaker 2: questions I would try to tackle. 681 00:41:21,600 --> 00:41:25,600 Speaker 1: But we'll put a pin in that it's possible if 682 00:41:25,640 --> 00:41:29,560 Speaker 1: I can. If I can find a thirty to forty 683 00:41:29,600 --> 00:41:32,799 Speaker 1: minute way to dive into that, I will, But on 684 00:41:33,120 --> 00:41:35,919 Speaker 1: the surface, I don't see that doing it that way? 685 00:41:35,960 --> 00:41:36,319 Speaker 2: All right? 686 00:41:36,520 --> 00:41:38,800 Speaker 1: Next question, per your suggestion. I watched Death by Lightning. 687 00:41:39,000 --> 00:41:40,719 Speaker 1: I enjoyed it but found it too short, So I 688 00:41:40,760 --> 00:41:42,839 Speaker 1: read the book. I kept rolling my eyes and how 689 00:41:42,840 --> 00:41:45,160 Speaker 1: often it mentioned national unity around Garfield. It made me 690 00:41:45,200 --> 00:41:47,600 Speaker 1: sad to realize can't imagine that kind of unity today. 691 00:41:47,719 --> 00:41:50,160 Speaker 1: Was the country really that united in grief and anger 692 00:41:50,200 --> 00:41:52,880 Speaker 1: over his assassination or did the author take some license 693 00:41:53,160 --> 00:41:56,120 Speaker 1: loving the podcast though, just a reminder there are other 694 00:41:56,160 --> 00:42:00,920 Speaker 1: sports besides college football. Hint, hint, baseball, Melanie from Sparks, Nevada. 695 00:42:02,239 --> 00:42:04,480 Speaker 1: I'll be doing some baseball that I promise you. 696 00:42:06,239 --> 00:42:06,600 Speaker 2: It will. 697 00:42:08,640 --> 00:42:12,520 Speaker 1: It will be very nats whiney. What I really fear is, 698 00:42:12,680 --> 00:42:16,520 Speaker 1: I actually think I might have guests about the next 699 00:42:16,560 --> 00:42:19,520 Speaker 1: lockout in baseball and how Major League Baseball is going 700 00:42:19,560 --> 00:42:19,719 Speaker 1: to have. 701 00:42:19,719 --> 00:42:20,400 Speaker 2: To save itself. 702 00:42:21,960 --> 00:42:26,040 Speaker 1: So here's all I would tell you with the Garfield 703 00:42:26,200 --> 00:42:30,080 Speaker 1: story that I think that I thought Death by Lightning 704 00:42:30,120 --> 00:42:32,720 Speaker 1: did a terrible job at capturing, didn't know how to capture. 705 00:42:33,480 --> 00:42:35,680 Speaker 1: And I go back to I sort of blame Netflix, 706 00:42:35,719 --> 00:42:39,120 Speaker 1: not Bennioff and Weiss for this, because there is no 707 00:42:39,200 --> 00:42:42,680 Speaker 1: way Benioff and Weiss said, Hey, let's do a lighter version. 708 00:42:42,760 --> 00:42:44,719 Speaker 1: Let's just do four episodes on this. I'm sure they 709 00:42:44,760 --> 00:42:51,760 Speaker 1: pitched eight or twelve eight, ten or twelve episodes because 710 00:42:52,040 --> 00:42:55,080 Speaker 1: they left out the two most interesting aspects to this, 711 00:42:56,040 --> 00:43:00,640 Speaker 1: and they just raced through the two aspects that each 712 00:43:00,680 --> 00:43:05,120 Speaker 1: could have been multiple episodes, and are the two reasons 713 00:43:05,160 --> 00:43:08,960 Speaker 1: why in the moment this was a big deal nationally. 714 00:43:09,080 --> 00:43:13,319 Speaker 1: One is how long Garfield lived before he died. He 715 00:43:13,400 --> 00:43:17,240 Speaker 1: basically lived the entire summer, and the public at first 716 00:43:17,280 --> 00:43:21,319 Speaker 1: blamed Chester Arthur and Roscoe Conkling and thought Arthur was 717 00:43:21,360 --> 00:43:24,560 Speaker 1: behind it because of the way Geteau, who was just 718 00:43:24,680 --> 00:43:28,440 Speaker 1: a crazy man talking to anybody who would listen to him. 719 00:43:28,920 --> 00:43:31,279 Speaker 1: He was available to any reporter that wanted to go 720 00:43:31,360 --> 00:43:34,279 Speaker 1: interview him in jail and stuff there was he was 721 00:43:34,920 --> 00:43:38,120 Speaker 1: too willing to talk. So you had, you know, in 722 00:43:38,200 --> 00:43:40,439 Speaker 1: the we weren't you know, the mass media of its 723 00:43:40,520 --> 00:43:44,160 Speaker 1: day was newspapers and stuff, but you had this was 724 00:43:44,200 --> 00:43:46,680 Speaker 1: the first big trial of the century that everybody was following. 725 00:43:46,719 --> 00:43:49,240 Speaker 1: It was a big deal in DC to be seen 726 00:43:49,920 --> 00:43:52,360 Speaker 1: at the trial. I've got a ticket to the Getoau 727 00:43:52,440 --> 00:43:55,279 Speaker 1: trial today because the trial began before Garfield died and 728 00:43:55,320 --> 00:43:57,399 Speaker 1: then of course became a murder case after he died. 729 00:43:59,200 --> 00:44:04,680 Speaker 1: So I actually think that that that was the hardest 730 00:44:04,719 --> 00:44:08,879 Speaker 1: part to capture, and it was not even attempted. There 731 00:44:08,920 --> 00:44:11,480 Speaker 1: were you know, they kind of show it, but there 732 00:44:11,480 --> 00:44:15,760 Speaker 1: were thousands of people gathered when they knew the president 733 00:44:15,800 --> 00:44:18,600 Speaker 1: was being taken to the Jersey Shore in order to 734 00:44:19,040 --> 00:44:25,239 Speaker 1: try to convalesce, and in fact there were people having 735 00:44:25,360 --> 00:44:28,200 Speaker 1: to fit. They took them on a railroad car and 736 00:44:27,920 --> 00:44:30,839 Speaker 1: they wanted to keep it as as smooth as they 737 00:44:30,880 --> 00:44:34,279 Speaker 1: could so they didn't bump them. And they literally had 738 00:44:34,320 --> 00:44:38,520 Speaker 1: to build the railroad as this train car very slowly 739 00:44:38,719 --> 00:44:39,640 Speaker 1: was brought to the. 740 00:44:39,560 --> 00:44:41,080 Speaker 2: East to the Jersey shore. 741 00:44:42,239 --> 00:44:45,000 Speaker 1: And it was just the public coming into help and 742 00:44:45,080 --> 00:44:48,920 Speaker 1: so and then the Gauteau trial had people obsessing over it. 743 00:44:48,960 --> 00:44:53,239 Speaker 1: So that's the two pieces of the story that Death 744 00:44:53,239 --> 00:44:56,440 Speaker 1: by Lightning didn't get do a good job of capturing 745 00:44:56,800 --> 00:45:00,120 Speaker 1: the country's sort of obsession. We had a present and 746 00:45:00,280 --> 00:45:03,600 Speaker 1: who was in limbo for months? This wasn't like a 747 00:45:03,600 --> 00:45:09,440 Speaker 1: couple of days. And then the trial, the first American 748 00:45:09,760 --> 00:45:14,280 Speaker 1: trial of the century. You know, before Scopes, there was Gutteau. Okay, 749 00:45:14,360 --> 00:45:17,200 Speaker 1: before oj there was Guto, before any of the right 750 00:45:17,360 --> 00:45:18,000 Speaker 1: it was good too. 751 00:45:18,400 --> 00:45:23,680 Speaker 2: So that would be my that would be my uh. 752 00:45:24,800 --> 00:45:27,880 Speaker 1: And if you want, if I'd read a second book, 753 00:45:28,239 --> 00:45:31,560 Speaker 1: you know, with every historical moment always, you know, like anything, 754 00:45:31,600 --> 00:45:33,719 Speaker 1: you got to read a couple of different books. Uh, 755 00:45:34,880 --> 00:45:37,800 Speaker 1: Destiny of the Republic is what death by Lightning was 756 00:45:37,800 --> 00:45:40,319 Speaker 1: was was based on. There's another book which I'm told 757 00:45:40,360 --> 00:45:42,440 Speaker 1: you can get for free on Amazon, which is a 758 00:45:42,440 --> 00:45:46,319 Speaker 1: bummer because the author deserves deserves real royalties for this. 759 00:45:47,600 --> 00:45:50,839 Speaker 1: But it's called dark Horse, Uh, and it leans more 760 00:45:50,880 --> 00:45:53,600 Speaker 1: into the political process, which of course I geeked out 761 00:45:53,600 --> 00:45:59,160 Speaker 1: on and enjoyed. All right, next question, uh comes from 762 00:46:00,000 --> 00:46:01,400 Speaker 1: starts with the La chiesa ree, So I know what 763 00:46:01,480 --> 00:46:04,600 Speaker 1: that comes from. Matt Mark from Damascus, Maryland. He's in 764 00:46:04,640 --> 00:46:06,919 Speaker 1: the DMV LA Cheeserie. I had to chime in after 765 00:46:06,920 --> 00:46:09,400 Speaker 1: the Lebron debate. He's a great player, but his arrogance 766 00:46:09,400 --> 00:46:11,600 Speaker 1: and early finals performance always turned me off. As a 767 00:46:11,680 --> 00:46:13,560 Speaker 1: longtime Penn State fan, I've got my fair share of 768 00:46:13,640 --> 00:46:16,480 Speaker 1: Miami memories, some painful, but I agree college football's best 769 00:46:16,520 --> 00:46:17,600 Speaker 1: sports experience hands down. 770 00:46:17,640 --> 00:46:19,480 Speaker 2: Love the pod. Thanks. 771 00:46:21,680 --> 00:46:24,560 Speaker 1: Yeah, Look, I'm just going to go back to, you know, 772 00:46:24,640 --> 00:46:26,320 Speaker 1: my favorite counterfactual. 773 00:46:26,360 --> 00:46:27,000 Speaker 2: When you have the. 774 00:46:26,920 --> 00:46:32,120 Speaker 1: Debate between Lebron and Michael Jordan and maybe we'll put 775 00:46:32,160 --> 00:46:35,080 Speaker 1: Wemby in that debate soon or Yokic in that debate 776 00:46:35,160 --> 00:46:38,239 Speaker 1: soon and all this stuff, there's still only there's one 777 00:46:38,280 --> 00:46:40,279 Speaker 1: guy that should be in the debate longer and it's 778 00:46:40,280 --> 00:46:42,919 Speaker 1: Magic Johnson because you know what Magic did that Michael 779 00:46:43,000 --> 00:46:46,200 Speaker 1: Jordan didn't do. He won an NCAA title and an 780 00:46:46,280 --> 00:46:52,719 Speaker 1: NBA title in the same basically back to back years. Right, 781 00:46:52,760 --> 00:46:57,719 Speaker 1: he ends his college career as an NCAA champion and 782 00:46:57,800 --> 00:47:00,359 Speaker 1: in his rookie year, he ends his rookie year as 783 00:47:00,360 --> 00:47:03,560 Speaker 1: an NBA champion. You know who didn't do that, Michael Jordan. 784 00:47:03,800 --> 00:47:06,080 Speaker 1: You know who didn't do that, Lebron James. You know 785 00:47:06,120 --> 00:47:10,719 Speaker 1: who didn't do that, Kareem Abdul Jabbar alth Kriem got 786 00:47:10,840 --> 00:47:13,640 Speaker 1: fairly close. It was only a couple of years. 787 00:47:17,320 --> 00:47:20,759 Speaker 2: Lebron James obviously, you know, didn't go to college. Right, Yes, he. 788 00:47:20,760 --> 00:47:22,239 Speaker 1: Won his I think I think he won a high 789 00:47:22,280 --> 00:47:28,040 Speaker 1: school state title. But anyway, I just want to put 790 00:47:28,040 --> 00:47:32,440 Speaker 1: my plug in for you know, Magic Johnson basically had 791 00:47:32,480 --> 00:47:38,799 Speaker 1: eleven seasons, eleven productive seasons. He won five titles in 792 00:47:38,880 --> 00:47:43,280 Speaker 1: eleven seasons. Okay, five titles in eleven seasons. 793 00:47:44,200 --> 00:47:45,040 Speaker 2: He loses. 794 00:47:45,480 --> 00:47:49,080 Speaker 1: I think he's in the NBA finals three other times, right, 795 00:47:49,120 --> 00:47:50,120 Speaker 1: I think he's five and three. 796 00:47:50,280 --> 00:47:54,719 Speaker 2: I have that. Where's it four? 797 00:47:55,320 --> 00:48:01,319 Speaker 1: Anyway, and his careers cut short by HIV and Karl 798 00:48:01,360 --> 00:48:10,080 Speaker 1: Malone's prejudice, and if if if he basically of his career, 799 00:48:10,719 --> 00:48:13,520 Speaker 1: if his career, if he goes another five, which he 800 00:48:13,560 --> 00:48:19,120 Speaker 1: would have, there's at least one more Michael versus Magic 801 00:48:20,000 --> 00:48:24,520 Speaker 1: NBA Finals. We only got one, right, Michael wins it 802 00:48:24,960 --> 00:48:26,799 Speaker 1: and then eight and then and then it was four 803 00:48:26,840 --> 00:48:30,480 Speaker 1: months later that he's diagnosed with HIV. Magic Johnson is 804 00:48:31,080 --> 00:48:34,560 Speaker 1: they probably face off another time or two in the 805 00:48:34,680 --> 00:48:40,600 Speaker 1: before before the first Jordan retirement. I think Magic gets one. 806 00:48:40,840 --> 00:48:44,400 Speaker 1: And if he has six and Michael never gets his six, 807 00:48:45,719 --> 00:48:47,080 Speaker 1: what's the goat conversation like? 808 00:48:47,719 --> 00:48:48,799 Speaker 2: Anyway? Just sumthing upout. 809 00:48:48,800 --> 00:48:52,640 Speaker 1: Her next question comes from Bill Singletary, Newberg, Oregon. Hey, 810 00:48:52,719 --> 00:48:55,239 Speaker 1: Chuck Cocaine's I never stopped believing right on baby as 811 00:48:55,239 --> 00:48:57,120 Speaker 1: we had it in twenty twenty six. What one word 812 00:48:57,360 --> 00:48:59,359 Speaker 1: you'd use to describe how you feel about the year head? 813 00:48:59,600 --> 00:49:02,439 Speaker 1: And who be your dream interview for the late October? Also, 814 00:49:02,480 --> 00:49:04,799 Speaker 1: do you think college football would benefit from adopting a 815 00:49:04,840 --> 00:49:06,000 Speaker 1: more NFL style? 816 00:49:06,080 --> 00:49:06,279 Speaker 2: There? 817 00:49:06,320 --> 00:49:12,399 Speaker 1: I say socialistic structure build Singletary, Well, look, and college 818 00:49:12,400 --> 00:49:14,360 Speaker 1: football is going to need an anti trust exemption to 819 00:49:14,360 --> 00:49:18,840 Speaker 1: do these things. I love the Nick Saban calendar idea, 820 00:49:18,840 --> 00:49:23,600 Speaker 1: which is basically shift everything to the to the summer. 821 00:49:24,239 --> 00:49:27,000 Speaker 1: The port the transfer portal doesn't open up until May, 822 00:49:27,040 --> 00:49:30,239 Speaker 1: which is the end of the semester. Okay, so you 823 00:49:30,239 --> 00:49:33,799 Speaker 1: you can at least you can at least live in 824 00:49:33,880 --> 00:49:38,160 Speaker 1: the fantasy of student athlete land. And then you have 825 00:49:38,239 --> 00:49:43,760 Speaker 1: spring practice after the transfer portal in late May early June, 826 00:49:43,800 --> 00:49:47,440 Speaker 1: and then you know, then you prepare essentially for the season. 827 00:49:47,800 --> 00:49:50,960 Speaker 1: You're essentially on the NFL schedule. Right They have the 828 00:49:51,360 --> 00:49:54,000 Speaker 1: you know, they have the NFL Draft, then they have 829 00:49:54,040 --> 00:49:57,239 Speaker 1: their first OTAs, which is their spring practice. Then they 830 00:49:57,239 --> 00:49:58,879 Speaker 1: take a little bit of a break, and then they 831 00:49:58,880 --> 00:50:01,360 Speaker 1: have then they have any camp, and then the opening 832 00:50:01,360 --> 00:50:06,400 Speaker 1: of the season. It seems pretty sensible to me, and 833 00:50:06,440 --> 00:50:09,480 Speaker 1: I do think they you know it, and it allows 834 00:50:09,520 --> 00:50:14,320 Speaker 1: you to still to still respect the academic calendar. Right now, 835 00:50:14,440 --> 00:50:17,839 Speaker 1: nothing seems to respect the academic calendar, so it makes 836 00:50:17,880 --> 00:50:21,640 Speaker 1: the whole student athlete conversation sort of even more ludicrous. 837 00:50:22,480 --> 00:50:27,200 Speaker 1: One word, I'd feel about twenty six, Well, I feel 838 00:50:27,239 --> 00:50:30,759 Speaker 1: better about calendar year twenty six than I did at 839 00:50:30,760 --> 00:50:33,520 Speaker 1: the start of calendar year twenty five and twenty five, 840 00:50:33,600 --> 00:50:36,520 Speaker 1: when about kind of how I expected that it would feel. 841 00:50:37,040 --> 00:50:42,200 Speaker 1: Really uncertain that it would feel like we were. It 842 00:50:42,239 --> 00:50:44,160 Speaker 1: would feel like the equivalent of trying to walk on 843 00:50:44,239 --> 00:50:47,080 Speaker 1: a moon walk or one of those you know, bouncy 844 00:50:47,160 --> 00:50:51,400 Speaker 1: houses right where you're you never feel steady and you 845 00:50:51,680 --> 00:50:55,000 Speaker 1: just have to plot along in order to survive. And 846 00:50:55,280 --> 00:51:01,640 Speaker 1: you know, twenty five was unstable, all those things. I 847 00:51:03,000 --> 00:51:05,799 Speaker 1: guess the one word I would use to describe how 848 00:51:05,800 --> 00:51:12,279 Speaker 1: I feel about twenty six is I'm going to go 849 00:51:12,320 --> 00:51:16,640 Speaker 1: ahead and say I'm going to use two words and 850 00:51:16,640 --> 00:51:18,239 Speaker 1: say cautiously optimistic. 851 00:51:19,840 --> 00:51:27,680 Speaker 2: I think I think more people are seeing. 852 00:51:29,440 --> 00:51:33,840 Speaker 1: A larger reality than did a year ago. I think 853 00:51:34,600 --> 00:51:39,600 Speaker 1: we'll have a little more people sort of wanting to 854 00:51:40,800 --> 00:51:45,040 Speaker 1: who are going to question, who are correctly questioning their 855 00:51:45,080 --> 00:51:46,200 Speaker 1: initial assumptions. 856 00:51:46,239 --> 00:51:47,000 Speaker 2: More. I don't know. 857 00:51:47,760 --> 00:51:52,800 Speaker 1: Maybe I'm I'm I'm I'm hoping people are going to 858 00:51:52,840 --> 00:51:55,440 Speaker 1: behave this way. But there's something I just feel like 859 00:51:55,520 --> 00:52:01,560 Speaker 1: we've crossed that I can hear it in my conversations 860 00:52:01,560 --> 00:52:04,120 Speaker 1: with folks from all over the political spectrum over the 861 00:52:04,200 --> 00:52:09,759 Speaker 1: last couple of months, which is we're not trusting anything right. 862 00:52:09,760 --> 00:52:14,720 Speaker 1: Trust is so low with everybody and everything, but we're 863 00:52:14,840 --> 00:52:18,480 Speaker 1: kind of knowing now we're being bsked, so we're looking 864 00:52:18,600 --> 00:52:24,480 Speaker 1: for we're looking for more verifications. It just tells me 865 00:52:24,520 --> 00:52:28,719 Speaker 1: I feel like I feel like the information consumer is 866 00:52:28,760 --> 00:52:34,279 Speaker 1: getting educated, and so I'm slightly more optimistic than I 867 00:52:34,360 --> 00:52:37,200 Speaker 1: was a year ago, simply because I think I think 868 00:52:37,239 --> 00:52:42,280 Speaker 1: the information consumer realizes they're being scammed and is actively 869 00:52:42,320 --> 00:52:46,680 Speaker 1: trying to figure out how to feel less scammed, and 870 00:52:46,719 --> 00:52:49,960 Speaker 1: that in turn gives me some hope. Next question comes 871 00:52:50,000 --> 00:52:53,839 Speaker 1: from Dan from Carlsbad, California, and he writes, as someone 872 00:52:53,840 --> 00:52:55,840 Speaker 1: who follows the baseball card market, I'm very interested to 873 00:52:55,840 --> 00:52:58,680 Speaker 1: see if Pat Ryan's call for the FTC to investigate 874 00:52:58,680 --> 00:53:01,080 Speaker 1: trading guard grading goes anywhere. Why don't we see more 875 00:53:01,120 --> 00:53:04,120 Speaker 1: investigations like this in addition to legitimate monopoly concerns. That 876 00:53:04,160 --> 00:53:06,759 Speaker 1: strikes me as a politically savvy move by someone in 877 00:53:06,800 --> 00:53:13,000 Speaker 1: a purplish district. Look any you know anything that sort 878 00:53:13,000 --> 00:53:14,799 Speaker 1: of gets at this, I think. 879 00:53:16,400 --> 00:53:16,799 Speaker 2: I think it. 880 00:53:18,360 --> 00:53:22,280 Speaker 1: I definitely think that the card market needs a little 881 00:53:22,280 --> 00:53:25,400 Speaker 1: bit more attention and regulation to it as it grows, 882 00:53:25,440 --> 00:53:28,000 Speaker 1: and I think the more it grows, the more attention 883 00:53:28,080 --> 00:53:28,399 Speaker 1: it is. 884 00:53:28,360 --> 00:53:29,400 Speaker 2: Going to get from the FTC. 885 00:53:31,000 --> 00:53:33,360 Speaker 1: I still think it's considered a niche or sort of 886 00:53:33,400 --> 00:53:39,920 Speaker 1: a not a mainstream issue, and I'm going to be 887 00:53:39,960 --> 00:53:43,880 Speaker 1: really cynical the people most impacted by it are not 888 00:53:44,640 --> 00:53:51,160 Speaker 1: necessarily people that are presumed to be swing voters. So, 889 00:53:51,920 --> 00:54:00,239 Speaker 1: you know, the card market is, you know, it's a hobby, right, 890 00:54:00,880 --> 00:54:04,160 Speaker 1: and it's a it's a durable hobby. It's been around 891 00:54:04,160 --> 00:54:06,840 Speaker 1: so long now, and it feels like it's getting a 892 00:54:06,920 --> 00:54:13,040 Speaker 1: bit more financial foundation to it. But it's the consolidation 893 00:54:13,160 --> 00:54:17,000 Speaker 1: that I think deserves a bit more attention. And I mean, 894 00:54:17,400 --> 00:54:20,960 Speaker 1: just look at what this Ruben guy is putting together 895 00:54:20,960 --> 00:54:24,160 Speaker 1: with fanatics, and I don't you know, more power to them, 896 00:54:24,320 --> 00:54:28,000 Speaker 1: And I'm rooting for him to create to making make 897 00:54:28,080 --> 00:54:32,560 Speaker 1: cards less dorkish, right, perceived to be the dork You 898 00:54:32,560 --> 00:54:35,680 Speaker 1: know where we have to you know where you go 899 00:54:35,719 --> 00:54:37,719 Speaker 1: into a card shop, and there's always been it's I 900 00:54:37,760 --> 00:54:41,400 Speaker 1: always have felt like going into a baseball card shop 901 00:54:41,480 --> 00:54:44,200 Speaker 1: was like watching the older guys go into the back 902 00:54:44,280 --> 00:54:45,440 Speaker 1: room of video stores. 903 00:54:45,440 --> 00:54:46,120 Speaker 2: Back in the day. 904 00:54:46,200 --> 00:54:48,440 Speaker 1: It was like, you didn't want to tell your friends 905 00:54:48,480 --> 00:54:50,840 Speaker 1: that you went hung out at a card store. You 906 00:54:50,840 --> 00:54:52,480 Speaker 1: don't want to tell your friends that you looked at 907 00:54:52,480 --> 00:54:55,440 Speaker 1: the adult section of the video of the video store 908 00:54:56,960 --> 00:54:59,680 Speaker 1: and there's you know, maybe that's in my own head 909 00:54:59,680 --> 00:55:02,239 Speaker 1: a little, but I think there's still that stigma out 910 00:55:02,239 --> 00:55:07,560 Speaker 1: there on cards, though I think people like Tom Brady 911 00:55:07,800 --> 00:55:10,680 Speaker 1: and their investment in are certainly making it, getting it 912 00:55:10,719 --> 00:55:17,040 Speaker 1: more mainstream. But it is what Fanatics is doing right, 913 00:55:17,120 --> 00:55:23,359 Speaker 1: consolidating so much of the sports experience under one umbrella card, 914 00:55:23,440 --> 00:55:29,360 Speaker 1: collecting your memorabilia, your where you get the T shirts, 915 00:55:29,360 --> 00:55:30,080 Speaker 1: the sweatshirts. 916 00:55:30,160 --> 00:55:31,560 Speaker 2: Right, they do all that. 917 00:55:32,160 --> 00:55:35,359 Speaker 1: I think they're also dabbling in sports gambling, right, that's 918 00:55:36,280 --> 00:55:38,880 Speaker 1: to me what's begging for some look, and yet you 919 00:55:38,960 --> 00:55:42,920 Speaker 1: have the different grading companies. But I'm I'm you know, 920 00:55:43,560 --> 00:55:46,439 Speaker 1: I look at the consolidation of just to get real 921 00:55:46,440 --> 00:55:49,520 Speaker 1: dorky here of SGC and Beckett under the PSA brand, 922 00:55:50,040 --> 00:55:53,560 Speaker 1: saying fine, because I think the next generation of graders 923 00:55:53,600 --> 00:55:55,840 Speaker 1: are going to come from the AI graders and the 924 00:55:55,840 --> 00:55:59,120 Speaker 1: AI technology. And look, PSA wasn't the biggest and then 925 00:55:59,160 --> 00:56:02,200 Speaker 1: it got credibility. I'm you know, you've got a few 926 00:56:02,200 --> 00:56:06,319 Speaker 1: other CGC interests. Me. I really like the quality of 927 00:56:06,360 --> 00:56:12,960 Speaker 1: their of their of their holders. I think they're very 928 00:56:13,040 --> 00:56:13,720 Speaker 1: nice looking. 929 00:56:14,520 --> 00:56:15,320 Speaker 2: Uh. 930 00:56:15,360 --> 00:56:17,720 Speaker 1: And there's still something to be said about how people 931 00:56:17,719 --> 00:56:20,120 Speaker 1: want to display their cards if they truly are, So 932 00:56:20,200 --> 00:56:23,759 Speaker 1: I think that could matter, and I think I think 933 00:56:23,800 --> 00:56:26,840 Speaker 1: the barrier to entry and the card grading will only 934 00:56:27,040 --> 00:56:27,840 Speaker 1: up if. 935 00:56:27,719 --> 00:56:33,000 Speaker 2: You will because of because of AI and all of that. 936 00:56:33,719 --> 00:56:39,360 Speaker 1: But look, Fanatics, I think this will really get the 937 00:56:39,360 --> 00:56:42,880 Speaker 1: attention of the government. If Fanatics and the company that 938 00:56:43,200 --> 00:56:47,919 Speaker 1: is the parent company of PSA Collectors, if PSA makes 939 00:56:47,920 --> 00:56:51,239 Speaker 1: an if that attempts at a consolidation, then I think 940 00:56:51,280 --> 00:56:55,560 Speaker 1: you've got a real FDC case on your hands. Next 941 00:56:55,600 --> 00:56:58,080 Speaker 1: question from Philly Mike Hey check long time email or 942 00:56:58,120 --> 00:56:58,920 Speaker 1: first time listener? 943 00:56:58,920 --> 00:56:59,600 Speaker 2: Bad joke? I know. 944 00:57:00,000 --> 00:57:01,440 Speaker 1: Do you have a recommendation for a good book on 945 00:57:01,560 --> 00:57:04,400 Speaker 1: Roy Cone. I've seen a few options, but don't know 946 00:57:04,440 --> 00:57:06,440 Speaker 1: where to start. And I'm fascinated by how one person 947 00:57:06,480 --> 00:57:09,560 Speaker 1: influenced so many dark chapters in American politics, from McCarthyism 948 00:57:09,640 --> 00:57:12,040 Speaker 1: to Trump. Thank you if I do your insights brings 949 00:57:13,239 --> 00:57:17,400 Speaker 1: sanity to an otherwise caoch political moment. So look, there 950 00:57:17,400 --> 00:57:21,440 Speaker 1: are okay Roy Cone books out there, but you know, 951 00:57:21,960 --> 00:57:26,640 Speaker 1: the best Roy Cone experience and the most I learned 952 00:57:26,680 --> 00:57:31,479 Speaker 1: about him, So I would recomm first of all read 953 00:57:31,600 --> 00:57:35,720 Speaker 1: his books first. So in the early sixties, he was 954 00:57:35,760 --> 00:57:39,520 Speaker 1: sort of the first among the self help legal books 955 00:57:39,760 --> 00:57:42,800 Speaker 1: you know, how to not get screwed in your divorce. 956 00:57:42,480 --> 00:57:43,520 Speaker 2: Or somethuff like that. 957 00:57:43,760 --> 00:57:47,000 Speaker 1: Let me get the some of the titles of his book. 958 00:57:47,200 --> 00:57:51,240 Speaker 1: First of all, the Sydney's Ion book is the book 959 00:57:51,280 --> 00:57:56,400 Speaker 1: It's It's, It's, It's, It's supposedly the autobiography of Roy Cone. 960 00:57:56,480 --> 00:58:00,280 Speaker 1: Sidney's Ion was interviewing him towards the end end of 961 00:58:00,280 --> 00:58:04,000 Speaker 1: his life when he had been diagnosed with AIDS. Was 962 00:58:04,240 --> 00:58:08,680 Speaker 1: claiming it wasn't AIDS, but oh my god, that's I 963 00:58:10,080 --> 00:58:13,200 Speaker 1: it's a it's entertaining as hell, and it is. 964 00:58:14,120 --> 00:58:17,920 Speaker 2: I would. I think it's the best. You learn a 965 00:58:17,960 --> 00:58:19,560 Speaker 2: lot about how the. 966 00:58:19,440 --> 00:58:24,600 Speaker 1: Brain of Cone worked. It's the interviews take place in 967 00:58:24,600 --> 00:58:27,200 Speaker 1: the early eighties. He dies, I think in eighty six. 968 00:58:27,960 --> 00:58:32,760 Speaker 1: So Sydney's Ions books is an absolute must read more 969 00:58:32,760 --> 00:58:34,760 Speaker 1: than any others before, you know. And there's a few 970 00:58:34,840 --> 00:58:37,200 Speaker 1: look the movie Citizen Cone, and I think there's a 971 00:58:37,240 --> 00:58:39,960 Speaker 1: couple of books that have gone on Citizen Cone that 972 00:58:40,000 --> 00:58:42,520 Speaker 1: are that are okay. But I think the Sydney's Ion, 973 00:58:42,920 --> 00:58:46,480 Speaker 1: because he was essentially going to be the ghostwriter. I 974 00:58:46,520 --> 00:58:49,200 Speaker 1: think for Cone's own book. But go read some of 975 00:58:49,320 --> 00:58:54,520 Speaker 1: Cohne's own books. So for instance, if you read none 976 00:58:54,560 --> 00:58:56,600 Speaker 1: of them are very long. But here's here's one that 977 00:58:56,680 --> 00:58:59,480 Speaker 1: sort of got a lot of traction back in the day. 978 00:59:00,080 --> 00:59:02,240 Speaker 1: Was written in the early sixties, How to stand Up 979 00:59:02,280 --> 00:59:04,240 Speaker 1: for your Rights and Win. That was the name of 980 00:59:04,280 --> 00:59:09,400 Speaker 1: the book. What you'll hear is you'll hear Trump's voice 981 00:59:10,920 --> 00:59:17,160 Speaker 1: without Trump. It's astonishing, it's really impressive. So anyway, those 982 00:59:17,160 --> 00:59:21,960 Speaker 1: are the two books. The Sydney's Ion quasi autobiography, because 983 00:59:22,000 --> 00:59:25,560 Speaker 1: again he gets lots of cooperation for Cone, but it 984 00:59:25,560 --> 00:59:30,520 Speaker 1: goes in and out. He's pretty transparent about his how 985 00:59:30,520 --> 00:59:32,040 Speaker 1: often he has him and doesn't have him in etc. 986 00:59:32,600 --> 00:59:35,960 Speaker 1: And then read one of Cohne's authored books that gives 987 00:59:36,000 --> 00:59:37,840 Speaker 1: you a better sense of who he is. Then try 988 00:59:37,880 --> 00:59:40,240 Speaker 1: to read the various biographies that were written after he died. 989 00:59:40,760 --> 00:59:43,960 Speaker 1: But the Zion book is when he's alive, that's why 990 00:59:44,000 --> 00:59:44,720 Speaker 1: that's interesting. 991 00:59:45,000 --> 00:59:46,960 Speaker 2: And then you've got to read one of his other books. 992 00:59:47,040 --> 00:59:48,479 Speaker 2: So that's that's how I. 993 00:59:48,440 --> 00:59:59,240 Speaker 1: Would recommend getting into the world of Roy Cope. I'm 994 00:59:59,240 --> 01:00:03,200 Speaker 1: going to race through I got one, two, three, four, 995 01:00:03,360 --> 01:00:05,200 Speaker 1: five more questions. I'm going to try to do these 996 01:00:05,240 --> 01:00:08,160 Speaker 1: fasts so that i can knock them all out Okay, 997 01:00:08,480 --> 01:00:10,560 Speaker 1: I just hear this. Next one comes from Kyle B 998 01:00:11,000 --> 01:00:14,280 Speaker 1: I just finished the book Covert City by Vince Houghton 999 01:00:14,320 --> 01:00:16,200 Speaker 1: and Eric Driggs, the story of Miami's. 1000 01:00:15,840 --> 01:00:16,640 Speaker 2: Role in the Cold War. 1001 01:00:16,960 --> 01:00:19,560 Speaker 1: Given your connection to the city and the book's intersection 1002 01:00:19,600 --> 01:00:21,160 Speaker 1: with South for a politics, I refused to live in 1003 01:00:21,160 --> 01:00:22,840 Speaker 1: a world where this isn't an episode. 1004 01:00:22,880 --> 01:00:24,360 Speaker 2: Big fan of the showkeeper of the Great. 1005 01:00:24,160 --> 01:00:28,520 Speaker 1: War, Kyle, great idea. Guess what book I have not read. 1006 01:00:28,640 --> 01:00:30,439 Speaker 1: I've not read this book. I did not know about 1007 01:00:30,440 --> 01:00:32,040 Speaker 1: this book. I don't know why I don't know about 1008 01:00:32,080 --> 01:00:34,760 Speaker 1: this book other than I haven't been to my one 1009 01:00:34,800 --> 01:00:37,800 Speaker 1: of my favorite bookstores in Miami called Books and Books 1010 01:00:37,800 --> 01:00:38,240 Speaker 1: and Books. 1011 01:00:40,000 --> 01:00:41,760 Speaker 2: But I'm going to read it and we will turn 1012 01:00:41,800 --> 01:00:43,160 Speaker 2: this into an episode. So thank you. 1013 01:00:43,800 --> 01:00:46,960 Speaker 1: It is officially on my reading list. Covert City because 1014 01:00:47,000 --> 01:00:50,320 Speaker 1: it's true man, the Cold War, I mean, because you 1015 01:00:50,360 --> 01:00:55,120 Speaker 1: know we were an outpost. Look, I it's possible. My 1016 01:00:55,280 --> 01:01:00,160 Speaker 1: grandfather was a plus quasi. I mean, he admitted to 1017 01:01:00,200 --> 01:01:03,120 Speaker 1: me he had conversations with the CIA about Castro, but 1018 01:01:03,320 --> 01:01:06,520 Speaker 1: in his conversations he was there warning. He claims he 1019 01:01:06,600 --> 01:01:09,040 Speaker 1: warned the CIA that Castro wasn't a good guy. My 1020 01:01:09,040 --> 01:01:12,000 Speaker 1: grandfather was doing work in rural Cuba in the fifties 1021 01:01:12,560 --> 01:01:15,360 Speaker 1: and he got and he had to he had in 1022 01:01:15,400 --> 01:01:19,120 Speaker 1: his offices because he showed me this scrap book. He 1023 01:01:19,160 --> 01:01:22,240 Speaker 1: had this eight x ten glossy of a young Fidel 1024 01:01:22,320 --> 01:01:23,680 Speaker 1: and his fatigues. And I said, what do you have 1025 01:01:23,760 --> 01:01:26,160 Speaker 1: this photo? And he said, oh, if you were on 1026 01:01:26,200 --> 01:01:29,400 Speaker 1: the approved list, you this photo. This was your If 1027 01:01:29,440 --> 01:01:32,040 Speaker 1: you hung this photo up in your office, then his 1028 01:01:32,120 --> 01:01:33,320 Speaker 1: people wouldn't harass you. 1029 01:01:34,840 --> 01:01:38,200 Speaker 2: Something else anyway. So God, I got to read this book. 1030 01:01:38,600 --> 01:01:40,840 Speaker 1: I am, I am, I am Kyle, thank you for 1031 01:01:40,880 --> 01:01:42,640 Speaker 1: putting it on my radar, and I'm ashamed it was 1032 01:01:42,680 --> 01:01:45,000 Speaker 1: not just shows you it's impossible to keep up with 1033 01:01:45,040 --> 01:01:49,240 Speaker 1: everything these days, right. Next question, Christopher de Carlo, Long Island, 1034 01:01:49,280 --> 01:01:50,760 Speaker 1: New York. How does it feel to be an independent 1035 01:01:50,800 --> 01:01:52,200 Speaker 1: journalist after many years of the NBC. 1036 01:01:54,800 --> 01:01:55,360 Speaker 2: I was. 1037 01:01:56,960 --> 01:02:02,840 Speaker 1: At first unsteady, a little weird. Now it just feels like, 1038 01:02:03,480 --> 01:02:05,000 Speaker 1: did I stay at NBC too long? 1039 01:02:05,680 --> 01:02:07,200 Speaker 2: That's how I That's. 1040 01:02:06,920 --> 01:02:10,360 Speaker 1: How empowered I feel. That's how excited I am about 1041 01:02:10,400 --> 01:02:15,840 Speaker 1: the landscape coming up. Because look, ultimately, I you know, 1042 01:02:16,920 --> 01:02:19,400 Speaker 1: I'm like the old you know, an educated consumer is 1043 01:02:19,440 --> 01:02:22,480 Speaker 1: my best customer. I want to help people understand politics better. 1044 01:02:23,080 --> 01:02:25,960 Speaker 1: I want more vehicles to do this. I want people 1045 01:02:25,960 --> 01:02:28,680 Speaker 1: to feel more sure about where they're getting their information. 1046 01:02:29,360 --> 01:02:31,640 Speaker 1: And I now have an opportunity to help rebuild mainstream 1047 01:02:31,680 --> 01:02:36,360 Speaker 1: media from an independence base. I'm having a blast now. 1048 01:02:37,440 --> 01:02:38,600 Speaker 2: Look, I was nervous. 1049 01:02:38,800 --> 01:02:41,320 Speaker 1: I was nervous, but I sort of I sort of 1050 01:02:41,520 --> 01:02:44,360 Speaker 1: see where this is headed. At least in my head. 1051 01:02:44,880 --> 01:02:49,600 Speaker 1: I've got a north star and not having to worry 1052 01:02:49,640 --> 01:02:53,680 Speaker 1: about upsetting a large corporate entity. 1053 01:02:54,080 --> 01:02:56,120 Speaker 2: Is truly liberating. 1054 01:02:57,320 --> 01:02:59,840 Speaker 1: Next one, Hi, Chuck, always look forward to the podcast. 1055 01:03:00,040 --> 01:03:02,960 Speaker 1: Thoughts about Magus starting to crack bring to mind a 1056 01:03:03,040 --> 01:03:05,800 Speaker 1: Leonard Cohen lyric. There's a crack and everything. That's how 1057 01:03:05,800 --> 01:03:08,640 Speaker 1: the light gets in. More people are starting to see 1058 01:03:08,680 --> 01:03:12,919 Speaker 1: the light. Happy new Year, Bob in Kansas City, Go Jayhawks, Bob, 1059 01:03:12,960 --> 01:03:16,320 Speaker 1: I should ask you Kansas City, Kansas or Kansas City, Missouri? 1060 01:03:16,880 --> 01:03:20,280 Speaker 1: And where are you on the fight for the new 1061 01:03:20,280 --> 01:03:22,640 Speaker 1: home of of the. 1062 01:03:22,640 --> 01:03:25,520 Speaker 2: Kansas City Chiefs. 1063 01:03:26,880 --> 01:03:33,640 Speaker 1: There you go, Leonard Cohen, he is underappreciated. Uh, that's 1064 01:03:33,680 --> 01:03:37,920 Speaker 1: for sure. One of my favorite Malcolm Gladwell episodes was 1065 01:03:37,960 --> 01:03:41,360 Speaker 1: his entire episode on the Leonard Cohen Hallelujah song, and 1066 01:03:41,520 --> 01:03:44,120 Speaker 1: Jesse did an entire episode of revisionist history just on 1067 01:03:44,320 --> 01:03:50,280 Speaker 1: that that and that interpretation of that song, which is 1068 01:03:50,320 --> 01:03:52,480 Speaker 1: he is right, you know, it is one of the 1069 01:03:52,480 --> 01:03:56,840 Speaker 1: more chilling. Leonard Cohen's version of it is unb believable. 1070 01:03:57,800 --> 01:04:04,040 Speaker 1: All right, next question, Dante Salters, Oh, it signed respectively respectfully, 1071 01:04:04,080 --> 01:04:09,320 Speaker 1: which usually means there's a hidden critique. He says, I'm 1072 01:04:09,360 --> 01:04:11,160 Speaker 1: very high on Governor Brasher for twenty twenty eight and 1073 01:04:11,160 --> 01:04:13,520 Speaker 1: consider myself an early supporter of his. Unfortunately, I mistery 1074 01:04:13,520 --> 01:04:15,480 Speaker 1: interview with Bashir, what was your r I'll take away 1075 01:04:15,520 --> 01:04:17,600 Speaker 1: of the Governor as a potential twenty eight prospect. I 1076 01:04:17,600 --> 01:04:19,600 Speaker 1: see many who dismiss him, but I believe he has 1077 01:04:19,680 --> 01:04:21,400 Speaker 1: underrated and understated skills. 1078 01:04:21,400 --> 01:04:24,040 Speaker 2: Respectfully. Dante salters, Okay, I thought it was gonna be more. 1079 01:04:24,200 --> 01:04:28,480 Speaker 1: First of all, I'm sorry you missed it. It's I 1080 01:04:28,600 --> 01:04:32,120 Speaker 1: think there are remnants of it. I did it for Newsphere, 1081 01:04:32,160 --> 01:04:34,760 Speaker 1: so it's on my Newsphere feed, which you do have 1082 01:04:34,800 --> 01:04:37,360 Speaker 1: to become a member to go get so we would 1083 01:04:37,400 --> 01:04:41,560 Speaker 1: love to have you. Newsphere is basically his news for 1084 01:04:41,600 --> 01:04:44,280 Speaker 1: the super informed. And I say this with with you 1085 01:04:44,320 --> 01:04:46,560 Speaker 1: know where you know it's you're getting the good stuff. 1086 01:04:48,160 --> 01:04:57,480 Speaker 1: So I would say that that Bashir is still learning 1087 01:04:57,480 --> 01:04:59,640 Speaker 1: to be a national candidate, is the way I would 1088 01:04:59,640 --> 01:05:00,080 Speaker 1: come up. 1089 01:05:03,360 --> 01:05:07,479 Speaker 2: Is, and I think that. 1090 01:05:09,520 --> 01:05:12,200 Speaker 1: I think he is struggling to be to be seen 1091 01:05:12,240 --> 01:05:14,880 Speaker 1: as both a mainstream Democrat and as a red state 1092 01:05:14,960 --> 01:05:16,000 Speaker 1: Kentucky Democrat. 1093 01:05:16,880 --> 01:05:17,880 Speaker 2: I think. 1094 01:05:19,120 --> 01:05:23,360 Speaker 1: I I'm with you the idea of Bashir. I'm very 1095 01:05:23,400 --> 01:05:25,960 Speaker 1: bullish on the question is what is it? 1096 01:05:26,080 --> 01:05:26,440 Speaker 2: How do you? 1097 01:05:26,800 --> 01:05:29,640 Speaker 1: How does it look in practice? Can he be sort 1098 01:05:29,640 --> 01:05:33,680 Speaker 1: of Bill Clinton circa nineteen ninety one and ninety two 1099 01:05:34,040 --> 01:05:40,760 Speaker 1: and be the outsider, mainstream, center left southern Democrat type right? 1100 01:05:40,800 --> 01:05:43,560 Speaker 1: And I know Kentucky's not necessarily a southern state, but 1101 01:05:43,960 --> 01:05:46,200 Speaker 1: certainly more like a southern state today than it was 1102 01:05:46,240 --> 01:05:51,680 Speaker 1: back in the day. I will say this, I almost 1103 01:05:51,680 --> 01:05:55,160 Speaker 1: sometimes think he's too polished. I think he needs more 1104 01:05:55,200 --> 01:05:59,240 Speaker 1: of it. I wish he had his dad's drawl right, 1105 01:05:59,760 --> 01:06:01,640 Speaker 1: and he has less of a draw than Steve does. 1106 01:06:01,960 --> 01:06:06,400 Speaker 1: Steve Basheer, who of course served as governor as well. 1107 01:06:10,440 --> 01:06:13,800 Speaker 1: There's a part of Andy Basheer that feels like he's 1108 01:06:14,320 --> 01:06:18,880 Speaker 1: too refined. It's sort of like Al Gore versus his father. 1109 01:06:20,000 --> 01:06:22,960 Speaker 1: If you're old enough to remember sort of Al Gore's 1110 01:06:23,000 --> 01:06:25,400 Speaker 1: father in office. I'm not old enough to remember it, 1111 01:06:25,400 --> 01:06:28,800 Speaker 1: but it was sort of a similar Al Junior was definitely, 1112 01:06:28,960 --> 01:06:31,520 Speaker 1: you know, the Harvard trained southern boy, right, but who 1113 01:06:31,560 --> 01:06:34,200 Speaker 1: grew up in Washington. And I'm not saying that, but 1114 01:06:35,360 --> 01:06:39,480 Speaker 1: you know, I think an underrated problem for Basher is 1115 01:06:39,520 --> 01:06:42,200 Speaker 1: the fact that he's a scion and the fact that 1116 01:06:42,240 --> 01:06:44,960 Speaker 1: he sort of it's not that he grew up in privilege, 1117 01:06:45,160 --> 01:06:48,640 Speaker 1: but that he sort of grew up in a political family. 1118 01:06:50,000 --> 01:06:52,880 Speaker 1: And I don't know whether that's going to be a 1119 01:06:52,920 --> 01:06:57,400 Speaker 1: demerit come to start at twenty twenty eight. I think 1120 01:06:57,440 --> 01:07:03,040 Speaker 1: his strength is how comfortable he is with in rural America, 1121 01:07:03,520 --> 01:07:05,480 Speaker 1: and he is part of that has been with just 1122 01:07:05,480 --> 01:07:08,400 Speaker 1: the relentless amount of natural disasters that hit Kentucky during 1123 01:07:08,440 --> 01:07:12,440 Speaker 1: his governorship. He has had quite a few where he 1124 01:07:12,520 --> 01:07:15,640 Speaker 1: is he has had to be the consoling uh the 1125 01:07:15,680 --> 01:07:19,480 Speaker 1: governor of a consoler as much as he was a governor. 1126 01:07:21,000 --> 01:07:22,880 Speaker 1: And of course none of that knows party and all 1127 01:07:22,920 --> 01:07:24,760 Speaker 1: of that. That's what that's what makes that a good 1128 01:07:24,840 --> 01:07:29,880 Speaker 1: story for him. But I you know what he doesn't 1129 01:07:29,920 --> 01:07:37,280 Speaker 1: have yet. He doesn't have this signature either, issue that says, ah, 1130 01:07:37,320 --> 01:07:38,760 Speaker 1: this is Kentucky Democrat. 1131 01:07:38,840 --> 01:07:39,440 Speaker 2: That's different. 1132 01:07:42,440 --> 01:07:47,080 Speaker 1: So it's it's I see the potential, but I you know, 1133 01:07:48,760 --> 01:07:50,800 Speaker 1: is he you know, I'll be very curious to see 1134 01:07:50,800 --> 01:07:55,120 Speaker 1: how he handles positioning himself ideologically as the sort of 1135 01:07:55,280 --> 01:07:59,240 Speaker 1: chief cheerleader for Democratic governor candidates in twenty twenty six, 1136 01:07:59,280 --> 01:08:01,680 Speaker 1: he's the chairman of the DA. He'll be traveling the 1137 01:08:01,720 --> 01:08:06,040 Speaker 1: country trying to help governors. Does he make political points? 1138 01:08:06,080 --> 01:08:08,240 Speaker 1: Does he help some governors who are a little more 1139 01:08:08,280 --> 01:08:11,160 Speaker 1: center than governors who are a little more liberal. I'll 1140 01:08:11,200 --> 01:08:13,960 Speaker 1: be very curious how he handles that. How does you know? 1141 01:08:14,200 --> 01:08:18,599 Speaker 1: How does he position himself when campaigning with Tim Walls 1142 01:08:18,960 --> 01:08:22,960 Speaker 1: versus camp in Minnesota versus campaigning with Rob sand in Iowa. 1143 01:08:23,040 --> 01:08:24,920 Speaker 1: I think he's going to be all over Rob sand 1144 01:08:24,960 --> 01:08:25,439 Speaker 1: in Iowa. 1145 01:08:27,479 --> 01:08:28,280 Speaker 2: And I think he's. 1146 01:08:28,160 --> 01:08:31,280 Speaker 1: Going to be a little nervous about campaigning with Tim Walls. 1147 01:08:31,479 --> 01:08:37,639 Speaker 1: So I I think he's got I think he's got 1148 01:08:37,760 --> 01:08:43,360 Speaker 1: a lot of potential. I am skeptical the base of 1149 01:08:43,400 --> 01:08:46,000 Speaker 1: the Democratic Party will fully embrace him without him having 1150 01:08:46,000 --> 01:08:49,760 Speaker 1: to sort of move a little bit further towards the 1151 01:08:49,760 --> 01:08:52,599 Speaker 1: base that Bill Clinton had to. And I wonder if 1152 01:08:52,640 --> 01:08:56,960 Speaker 1: that takes away his best asset anyway. That's that was 1153 01:08:57,040 --> 01:08:57,760 Speaker 1: my impression. 1154 01:08:57,840 --> 01:08:58,720 Speaker 2: He's he is. 1155 01:09:00,439 --> 01:09:02,559 Speaker 1: I feel like he is trying to make the case 1156 01:09:02,600 --> 01:09:06,800 Speaker 1: that he is part of that he is can be 1157 01:09:06,920 --> 01:09:13,280 Speaker 1: leader of the party rather than a disruptor of the party. 1158 01:09:13,400 --> 01:09:16,280 Speaker 1: And I think he needs to figure out how to 1159 01:09:16,360 --> 01:09:19,960 Speaker 1: be more of a disruptor of the party that was. 1160 01:09:20,160 --> 01:09:22,360 Speaker 1: I think that's where Bill Clinton found strength as a 1161 01:09:22,520 --> 01:09:26,040 Speaker 1: as a center left candidate when he did it. All right, 1162 01:09:26,479 --> 01:09:30,280 Speaker 1: last question for this two part mail bag check. I 1163 01:09:30,280 --> 01:09:32,040 Speaker 1: don't know if you have answered this before, but growing 1164 01:09:32,120 --> 01:09:34,240 Speaker 1: up in Miami and being a lifelong Hurricanes fan, how 1165 01:09:34,240 --> 01:09:36,400 Speaker 1: did you become a Packers fan? Always Jorgiar podcast paul 1166 01:09:36,439 --> 01:09:38,680 Speaker 1: Us from Coming to La Coming to Louisiana. 1167 01:09:39,320 --> 01:09:41,960 Speaker 2: I will tell you my father grew up in water 1168 01:09:41,960 --> 01:09:45,040 Speaker 2: li Isle. What did that mean? It meant it. 1169 01:09:46,920 --> 01:09:51,320 Speaker 1: His best childhood memories were in Iowa. He wished he 1170 01:09:51,400 --> 01:09:53,760 Speaker 1: was raising me in Iowa. I used to joke he 1171 01:09:53,840 --> 01:09:55,680 Speaker 1: used to raise me Iowan. What did that mean? My 1172 01:09:55,760 --> 01:09:58,759 Speaker 1: first savings account was not at a bank in Miami. 1173 01:09:59,720 --> 01:10:07,400 Speaker 1: It was instead Sorry I was interrupted there, my dog 1174 01:10:07,520 --> 01:10:11,280 Speaker 1: is chewing and destroying a pen. As we finished She's 1175 01:10:11,520 --> 01:10:14,360 Speaker 1: very anxious for me to finish the mailbag, but she 1176 01:10:14,439 --> 01:10:16,240 Speaker 1: was cracking it. I was like, what are you what 1177 01:10:16,520 --> 01:10:19,920 Speaker 1: are you blowing up? Just waiting for ink everywhere? But 1178 01:10:20,040 --> 01:10:25,560 Speaker 1: I digress. So my father, my first savings account was 1179 01:10:25,600 --> 01:10:27,679 Speaker 1: with the Waterloo Savings and Loane. Yes, this was before 1180 01:10:27,720 --> 01:10:29,240 Speaker 1: the SNL crisis, so that. 1181 01:10:29,360 --> 01:10:32,480 Speaker 2: Was where I had. My first bank book was a Waterloom. 1182 01:10:32,800 --> 01:10:33,000 Speaker 2: You know. 1183 01:10:33,280 --> 01:10:35,880 Speaker 1: He wanted me to have ties Iowa. Well, it also 1184 01:10:35,920 --> 01:10:39,360 Speaker 1: meant he was anti Chicago and his favorite NFL team 1185 01:10:39,400 --> 01:10:42,559 Speaker 1: was always the Packers. He was not a fan of 1186 01:10:42,800 --> 01:10:45,439 Speaker 1: the owner of the Miami Dolphins band named Joe Robbie, 1187 01:10:46,040 --> 01:10:48,240 Speaker 1: and he used to complain that Joe Robbie used to 1188 01:10:48,320 --> 01:10:52,879 Speaker 1: steal money out of the University of Miami athletic department 1189 01:10:52,920 --> 01:10:55,639 Speaker 1: because the Hurricanes and the Dolphins shared a stadium back 1190 01:10:55,640 --> 01:10:58,960 Speaker 1: then to the Orange Bowl, and Robbie controlled the concessions 1191 01:10:59,360 --> 01:11:02,760 Speaker 1: and the CONCESSI money then never went to the Hurricanes, 1192 01:11:03,360 --> 01:11:06,200 Speaker 1: and I think of over time it finally did. But 1193 01:11:06,280 --> 01:11:08,800 Speaker 1: that used to like chap my and so that was 1194 01:11:08,840 --> 01:11:13,080 Speaker 1: like one of his grievances. That's how emphatic we were 1195 01:11:13,080 --> 01:11:15,240 Speaker 1: about the Hurricanes. So it was I think The other 1196 01:11:15,240 --> 01:11:18,440 Speaker 1: thing is my dad was was was was a conservative 1197 01:11:18,479 --> 01:11:22,400 Speaker 1: and Robbie was a liberal Democrat from Minnesota. So he 1198 01:11:22,479 --> 01:11:24,759 Speaker 1: never said that, but that was always there was always 1199 01:11:24,760 --> 01:11:25,960 Speaker 1: a little bit of that in the back of my 1200 01:11:26,000 --> 01:11:28,120 Speaker 1: head about this of what but he. 1201 01:11:28,240 --> 01:11:29,200 Speaker 2: But he was always angry. 1202 01:11:29,240 --> 01:11:32,320 Speaker 1: He always had an issue with Robbie and how they 1203 01:11:32,400 --> 01:11:35,640 Speaker 1: treated the Hurricanes. And he grew up in Iowa, and 1204 01:11:35,720 --> 01:11:39,320 Speaker 1: which was you know, you were Green Bay. You know 1205 01:11:39,640 --> 01:11:44,599 Speaker 1: you pulled for the Packers in football, not not anything. Whoever, 1206 01:11:44,600 --> 01:11:47,320 Speaker 1: the chief r was Chicago all things. Chicago was like 1207 01:11:47,400 --> 01:11:54,000 Speaker 1: New York to somebody in Iowa. So that's he was 1208 01:11:54,000 --> 01:11:56,439 Speaker 1: a Packer fan. So very early on I read Run 1209 01:11:56,479 --> 01:12:00,200 Speaker 1: to Daylight. I read the Jerry Kramer book Instant Replay 1210 01:12:01,160 --> 01:12:03,040 Speaker 1: early on, and guess what I did. I did the 1211 01:12:03,080 --> 01:12:07,280 Speaker 1: same propaganda to my son, and he read the whole 1212 01:12:07,320 --> 01:12:08,040 Speaker 1: Jerry Kramer. 1213 01:12:08,560 --> 01:12:09,320 Speaker 2: Uh, he read. 1214 01:12:10,400 --> 01:12:13,280 Speaker 1: I gave him the the newer Lombardi book on the 1215 01:12:13,400 --> 01:12:16,280 Speaker 1: Marinis book it didn't exist then back then, which just 1216 01:12:16,320 --> 01:12:20,760 Speaker 1: the Run to Daylight book, and uh, he's embraced it 1217 01:12:20,880 --> 01:12:23,800 Speaker 1: in some way. He's a he will tell you he 1218 01:12:23,800 --> 01:12:25,599 Speaker 1: thinks he's more of a Packer fan than I am. 1219 01:12:26,000 --> 01:12:29,640 Speaker 2: But we have, we've, we've, I have. 1220 01:12:30,080 --> 01:12:34,559 Speaker 1: He is a third generation Packer fan, and none of 1221 01:12:34,640 --> 01:12:38,200 Speaker 1: us have ever lived in the state of Wisconsin. However, 1222 01:12:38,680 --> 01:12:42,000 Speaker 1: my father's father and mother, early in their marriage for 1223 01:12:42,120 --> 01:12:44,680 Speaker 1: my dad was born, did live in Lacrosse, Wisconsin. So 1224 01:12:45,200 --> 01:12:49,840 Speaker 1: a fourth generation. Uh technically, so I can I can 1225 01:12:49,920 --> 01:12:53,560 Speaker 1: say I did have a fourth You know, my grandfather 1226 01:12:54,080 --> 01:12:56,080 Speaker 1: lived in Wisconsin for a period of time and his 1227 01:12:56,160 --> 01:12:58,920 Speaker 1: brother was a lifelong Wisconsin residence, So those are my 1228 01:12:59,200 --> 01:12:59,960 Speaker 1: Wisconsin time. 1229 01:13:00,160 --> 01:13:03,040 Speaker 2: But yes, I am. I'm an unusual Packer fan. 1230 01:13:03,080 --> 01:13:05,479 Speaker 1: But hey, in the eighties, I was the only kid 1231 01:13:05,560 --> 01:13:08,120 Speaker 1: rooting for the Packers in Miami while everybody else was 1232 01:13:08,160 --> 01:13:11,559 Speaker 1: excited about Dan Marino, which meant I threw myself into 1233 01:13:11,600 --> 01:13:15,479 Speaker 1: Hurricanes football even more so because that was the one local, local, gig, 1234 01:13:16,360 --> 01:13:17,920 Speaker 1: local team I could root for. 1235 01:13:18,000 --> 01:13:20,040 Speaker 2: And my dad was not gonna be bad about it. 1236 01:13:20,479 --> 01:13:24,760 Speaker 1: All right, What a great first nine months for the 1237 01:13:24,800 --> 01:13:31,479 Speaker 1: podcast the Questions I got. What a great uh set 1238 01:13:31,479 --> 01:13:34,080 Speaker 1: of listeners and smart in somebody's I wish I could 1239 01:13:34,120 --> 01:13:36,519 Speaker 1: just create create content this way. 1240 01:13:36,280 --> 01:13:38,160 Speaker 2: With you guys more often, and maybe we will. 1241 01:13:38,400 --> 01:13:41,000 Speaker 1: Maybe I'll make the mailbag thing a little bit more regular, 1242 01:13:42,040 --> 01:13:44,000 Speaker 1: where we you know, maybe once every. 1243 01:13:43,800 --> 01:13:44,479 Speaker 2: Couple of months. 1244 01:13:44,479 --> 01:13:48,120 Speaker 1: I clean it out right, I empty the mailbag, uh, 1245 01:13:48,400 --> 01:13:51,320 Speaker 1: and do that so that we don't we don't let 1246 01:13:51,360 --> 01:13:56,760 Speaker 1: these these great treasure of ideas slip through. 1247 01:13:56,920 --> 01:14:02,439 Speaker 2: So with that, thanks for listening until we upload a game. Hey,