WEBVTT - Graham Gouldman 0:00:08.600 --> 0:00:13.119 Welcome, Welcome, Welcome back to the Bob Webstats podcast. My 0:00:13.480 --> 0:00:18.600 yesterday is the one and only Raham Goldman Ram. You're 0:00:18.600 --> 0:00:21.760 bringing ten c C to the States. Why now? 0:00:22.360 --> 0:00:25.520 Why now? Well, that's a very good question. 0:00:26.280 --> 0:00:31.400 I think what's happened is that I've been touring as 0:00:31.520 --> 0:00:35.800 ten CC for many, many years now, and even though 0:00:35.840 --> 0:00:39.720 I'm the only original member, we've just been doing better 0:00:39.760 --> 0:00:43.040 and better selling out wherever we go, and have obviously 0:00:43.120 --> 0:00:49.640 caught the eye of some American promoters who are you know, 0:00:49.720 --> 0:00:53.040 want us to come over And I'm really delighted to 0:00:53.120 --> 0:00:55.240 be coming back. It's a long time since we were 0:00:55.240 --> 0:00:56.440 over in the States. 0:00:57.160 --> 0:01:00.440 Okay, I remember seeing you on the Bloody Tour tour. 0:01:00.600 --> 0:01:03.800 When was the last time ten CC was in the 0:01:03.920 --> 0:01:04.759 United States? 0:01:04.959 --> 0:01:07.240 Well, actually there was a gig. There was a one 0:01:07.280 --> 0:01:10.520 off gig in New York. It must have been about 0:01:10.600 --> 0:01:16.520 maybe fourteen, maybe fifteen years ago even and it was 0:01:16.560 --> 0:01:17.479 an in and out thing. 0:01:17.680 --> 0:01:19.360 So I don't know. 0:01:19.319 --> 0:01:24.440 Why we just did one one one gig. But before 0:01:24.480 --> 0:01:30.840 that it was we're talking about sort of mid seventies 0:01:31.040 --> 0:01:32.679 with the original lineup. 0:01:34.280 --> 0:01:37.440 Yeah, that's what I saw at the Santa Monica Civic. 0:01:37.959 --> 0:01:40.199 So someone comes to the show. 0:01:40.280 --> 0:01:43.600 What might they expect, Well, they're going to get all 0:01:43.680 --> 0:01:47.200 the all the hits and more. You know, we had 0:01:47.240 --> 0:01:50.560 eleven big hits in the in the UK and various 0:01:50.560 --> 0:01:53.640 other places in the world, so you're going to hear that. 0:01:53.680 --> 0:01:57.600 You're going to hear also various album tracks that we 0:01:57.840 --> 0:02:02.400 like to play and that our fans have quested. There's 0:02:02.440 --> 0:02:05.080 going to be one new song in it as well 0:02:05.280 --> 0:02:09.080 that I feel entitled to put in. It's a song 0:02:09.960 --> 0:02:15.840 I wrote about the James Webspace telescope, and because it 0:02:15.919 --> 0:02:19.800 was about it is astronomical, I asked Brian Made to 0:02:19.800 --> 0:02:23.000 play on it, which he did, and he plays guitar 0:02:23.080 --> 0:02:25.320 on it. He does back in vocals on it. It's 0:02:25.400 --> 0:02:27.000 called Floating in Heaven. 0:02:28.520 --> 0:02:32.440 Great and I noticed that Kevin Godly joined you with 0:02:32.520 --> 0:02:34.720 the Royal Albert Wall. How did that come to be? 0:02:36.000 --> 0:02:40.120 Well, Kevin and I have always remained good friends ever 0:02:40.200 --> 0:02:45.440 since he and Loe left the band, and as it 0:02:45.560 --> 0:02:48.680 was the Albert Hall a special, very special place to play, 0:02:48.720 --> 0:02:51.519 as anybody will tell you, I thought it'd be a 0:02:51.560 --> 0:02:56.320 nice idea for Kevin to join us to sing the 0:02:56.440 --> 0:03:01.560 appropriately titled Old wild Man, which was what he sang. 0:03:01.639 --> 0:03:05.640 Actually what happened was he appears on our screen singing 0:03:05.720 --> 0:03:10.799 somewhere in Hollywood from our sheet music album. And so 0:03:10.960 --> 0:03:14.639 what happened was when the song is finished and he 0:03:15.040 --> 0:03:19.200 walks off the screen stage right, and then he appeared 0:03:19.240 --> 0:03:22.760 stage right walking on to the stage. And it was 0:03:22.840 --> 0:03:27.600 really quite a moment. I mean, the audience were gobsmacked. 0:03:27.880 --> 0:03:30.919 Actually he sang, he said a few words, he sang 0:03:30.919 --> 0:03:34.480 all wow men, and then we did cry, which was 0:03:34.840 --> 0:03:37.960 a big Goblin Cream hit, and it was really quite 0:03:37.960 --> 0:03:40.120 a moment, quite emotional, I have to say. 0:03:41.440 --> 0:03:45.920 And I love that song A Dog up in Beverly Hills. Yeah, 0:03:45.920 --> 0:03:51.040 it's crazy. And one has to ask, we're are Eric 0:03:51.160 --> 0:03:52.040 and lawl today. 0:03:53.400 --> 0:03:57.760 Eric I haven't heard from for years and years. You know, 0:03:58.600 --> 0:04:01.400 I don't know what's happened with him lol. I know 0:04:01.640 --> 0:04:05.480 has been active. In fact, quite a few years ago, 0:04:05.720 --> 0:04:08.840 we were rehearsing in the same place that Loll was 0:04:09.840 --> 0:04:12.800 rehearsing with a bank called the Producers that he has 0:04:12.880 --> 0:04:16.160 with the Trevor Horn, and he was actually rehearsing in 0:04:16.320 --> 0:04:18.920 the in the room next to us, and I had 0:04:18.960 --> 0:04:22.680 a very nice chat with him. As it happens. But 0:04:23.760 --> 0:04:26.080 I haven't seen for a while. It's really Kevin is 0:04:26.080 --> 0:04:29.080 the only one to have any constant to contact. 0:04:28.600 --> 0:04:34.760 With and when you play shows in the UK and 0:04:34.760 --> 0:04:39.039 I'm a continent, are these basically people who remember the 0:04:39.040 --> 0:04:41.320 big hits from the seventies or are there any younger 0:04:41.360 --> 0:04:44.480 generations who've discovered ken CC. 0:04:45.960 --> 0:04:50.560 I think there's three generations now. There's the more mature 0:04:50.600 --> 0:04:55.120 audience that you would expect. There's my eldest kids age, 0:04:55.200 --> 0:04:59.400 which is in their forties, and there's a younger crowd coming, 0:04:59.640 --> 0:05:03.359 I mean twenty plus coming as well, and that's really 0:05:03.400 --> 0:05:04.799 gratifying to see. 0:05:05.120 --> 0:05:07.480 I love it when I see younger kids in the audience. 0:05:08.320 --> 0:05:10.680 You know, maybe they've listened to our music because of 0:05:10.720 --> 0:05:13.360 their parents listen to it. It's played in the house 0:05:13.520 --> 0:05:14.640 or by the internet. 0:05:16.560 --> 0:05:22.159 Okay, the Tennessee C Records who owns those, but. 0:05:22.680 --> 0:05:26.719 Well they're with the Universal now. They were with various 0:05:26.720 --> 0:05:32.840 other record companies, Phonogram UK Records, which was our first label. 0:05:34.240 --> 0:05:38.680 I think I think Hypnosis have actually got that those 0:05:38.720 --> 0:05:42.240 first albums that were on Jonathan King's label, but the 0:05:42.320 --> 0:05:45.360 others are with the Universal. 0:05:46.360 --> 0:05:50.159 And at this lead deep the way we have major 0:05:50.279 --> 0:05:53.839 label accounting. The royalties come in from the Tennessee ce 0:05:54.040 --> 0:05:57.400 records or do they still say because of all the advances, 0:05:57.440 --> 0:05:58.920 you're in a negative position. 0:05:59.160 --> 0:06:00.240 Oh, I don't think. 0:06:00.800 --> 0:06:05.200 I think all advances a long time ago or were 0:06:05.320 --> 0:06:13.920 paid off. So yeah, roads are still still paid Yeah, okay. 0:06:14.000 --> 0:06:17.919 And in terms of your songs, who owns those songs now? 0:06:19.240 --> 0:06:23.799 Well, some of the songs are with various various publishers 0:06:25.400 --> 0:06:29.560 throughout you know, they're with loads of different people. I 0:06:29.640 --> 0:06:34.000 have a deal now with BMG, who I find very 0:06:34.000 --> 0:06:38.520 good to work with. Here my music publishing was which 0:06:38.680 --> 0:06:40.560 a lot of the songs are with. In fact, the 0:06:40.600 --> 0:06:43.120 bulk of the TANCC ones, if not all of them, 0:06:43.720 --> 0:06:45.680 are now owned by Sony. 0:06:47.560 --> 0:06:50.719 And at this late date, with so many people selling 0:06:50.800 --> 0:06:54.000 their rights, is that something you would contemplate? 0:06:55.600 --> 0:07:03.520 I have contemplated it full stop. And what have you thought, Well, 0:07:03.600 --> 0:07:08.880 I've thought I've thought that it's I look at it 0:07:08.880 --> 0:07:09.920 in two ways. 0:07:11.920 --> 0:07:14.920 There's a financial side of it, but there's also the 0:07:16.000 --> 0:07:21.440 emotional side of it. And I tend to think of 0:07:21.520 --> 0:07:23.920 the emotional side of things. 0:07:25.280 --> 0:07:28.360 So we would not anticipate reading you selling your rights 0:07:28.360 --> 0:07:29.920 in the near future. 0:07:31.120 --> 0:07:32.560 I'd say never, say never. 0:07:34.360 --> 0:07:36.560 Okay, let's go back to your you were first known 0:07:36.600 --> 0:07:41.119 as a songwriter. The first song you wrote that had 0:07:41.800 --> 0:07:45.520 international traction was for Your Love, which was covered by 0:07:45.520 --> 0:07:47.960 the Yardbirds. How old were you and how did you 0:07:48.000 --> 0:07:48.880 write that song? 0:07:49.360 --> 0:07:56.080 Okay, I was nineteen when I wrote it. One record 0:07:56.160 --> 0:07:59.200 that had a massive influence on me was The House 0:07:59.240 --> 0:08:04.760 of the Rising I loved the chord sequence in it, 0:08:04.840 --> 0:08:06.000 and it's kind. 0:08:05.760 --> 0:08:08.600 Of the chord sequence of the House of the Rising 0:08:08.640 --> 0:08:09.480 Sun is kind of. 0:08:09.440 --> 0:08:13.720 The opposite of what musicians called that C A minor, 0:08:13.920 --> 0:08:20.960 F and G. Do you know that kind of You've 0:08:21.040 --> 0:08:23.280 heard it a million times, But the House of the 0:08:23.400 --> 0:08:26.400 Rising Sun went from a minor to C, then to 0:08:26.560 --> 0:08:27.520 D then to F. 0:08:27.680 --> 0:08:30.320 So it was kind of like it turned that chord 0:08:30.360 --> 0:08:31.360 sequence on its head. 0:08:31.400 --> 0:08:34.680 And I use that chord sequence, particularly the first two chords, 0:08:34.720 --> 0:08:38.400 going from the minor to the relevant major and a 0:08:38.440 --> 0:08:41.280 lot of songs. Not only was it on for Your 0:08:41.320 --> 0:08:46.760 Love but Heartful of Soul No Milk. Today, I don't 0:08:46.760 --> 0:08:48.840 know whether it's it's obvious to people that it is 0:08:48.880 --> 0:08:52.720 the same sequence, but those two chords have been very 0:08:52.720 --> 0:08:58.480 good for me. So I wrote the song and my 0:08:58.600 --> 0:09:02.559 manager at the time said, this is a great song. 0:09:02.600 --> 0:09:05.160 Why don't we get it to the Beatles, So I 0:09:05.200 --> 0:09:07.040 said that, I think the Beatles were okay in the 0:09:07.080 --> 0:09:12.520 songwriting department. But as it happened, the Beatles were doing 0:09:12.559 --> 0:09:15.839 a Christmas show at the Hammersmith Odion being supported by 0:09:15.880 --> 0:09:20.320 the Yardbirds, and I think that gave our publisher the 0:09:20.440 --> 0:09:24.200 idea to give it to the Yardbirds, because you knew 0:09:24.240 --> 0:09:27.560 that at that time they were looking to have sort 0:09:27.600 --> 0:09:29.000 of more commercial success. 0:09:29.240 --> 0:09:30.240 You know, they'd been a. 0:09:30.120 --> 0:09:34.920 Really well known with R and B band, really, but 0:09:35.040 --> 0:09:37.679 they decided that they wanted some chart success, I guess, 0:09:37.800 --> 0:09:41.080 and that was one of the reasons why Eric Clapton 0:09:41.160 --> 0:09:43.680 actually left the band. I think that was the last 0:09:43.720 --> 0:09:46.760 straw fame of them recording what he thought was a 0:09:46.760 --> 0:09:47.640 commercial song. 0:09:49.800 --> 0:09:54.360 So you know, today you make a demo and that's 0:09:54.440 --> 0:09:56.640 passed around. Is that what happened? Did you cut a 0:09:56.679 --> 0:09:57.920 demo for four Your Love? 0:09:58.559 --> 0:10:02.959 I cut a demo and the demo had the bongos on, 0:10:03.760 --> 0:10:07.960 but it didn't have the harpsichord on that the odd 0:10:08.080 --> 0:10:11.480 Birds put on it. And the story goes that the 0:10:11.480 --> 0:10:16.440 they went to the studio and expecting them to be 0:10:16.679 --> 0:10:20.480 a keyboard or an organ or some sort of keyboard 0:10:21.320 --> 0:10:24.040 but not harpsichord. But there was a harpsichord in the 0:10:24.040 --> 0:10:26.839 studio and they decided to use that, which I think 0:10:26.920 --> 0:10:30.720 was a stroke of genius and divine good luck. 0:10:32.800 --> 0:10:35.120 And how did you first hear their version? 0:10:36.000 --> 0:10:41.320 I think I was sent an ascetate the by the 0:10:41.360 --> 0:10:43.640 publisher and it blew my mind. 0:10:45.240 --> 0:10:48.360 Okay, blew your mind to what ded we? Was it 0:10:48.480 --> 0:10:50.439 similar with your vision of the song? 0:10:51.280 --> 0:10:51.559 Uh? 0:10:51.600 --> 0:10:55.320 It was similar, but it was really the It was 0:10:55.360 --> 0:10:58.840 the harpsichord that was the big difference. 0:10:59.200 --> 0:10:59.400 You know. 0:10:59.840 --> 0:11:03.440 They had kept the bongos. That was that's for sure. 0:11:04.800 --> 0:11:09.160 And when it became worldwide hit? What was that like 0:11:09.280 --> 0:11:09.680 for you? 0:11:10.280 --> 0:11:13.360 It was fantastic, as you can imagine, wonderful. 0:11:14.080 --> 0:11:16.400 It was kind of like, you know, I'd known from 0:11:16.400 --> 0:11:19.480 an early age that I wanted to be in music, 0:11:19.520 --> 0:11:22.080 and I didn't know in what way, but music was 0:11:22.640 --> 0:11:28.160 and still is my my great love. And you know, 0:11:28.240 --> 0:11:30.679 this was validation, I guess. 0:11:32.000 --> 0:11:34.719 So now you have this hit other acts, I'm calling, well, 0:11:34.720 --> 0:11:37.080 you wrote this for the Yard Words we need songs? 0:11:37.720 --> 0:11:40.480 Yeah, yes, that really? You know. 0:11:40.679 --> 0:11:41.200 I I. 0:11:42.920 --> 0:11:45.680 Wrote two songs for the Hollies, look Through Any Window 0:11:45.720 --> 0:11:49.199 and bust Stop. I wrote Heart Full of soul and 0:11:49.400 --> 0:11:53.200 evil hearted view for the yardbirds no milk today, for 0:11:53.280 --> 0:11:56.360 Hermit's Hermits. There were some others, but those are the 0:11:56.480 --> 0:11:59.480 kind of, you know, the major ones from that period. 0:12:01.000 --> 0:12:04.880 Okay, let's go back to the beginning. You're from Salford, 0:12:04.960 --> 0:12:06.880 outside of Manchester. 0:12:06.720 --> 0:12:08.760 Yeah, of North Manchester. Yeah. 0:12:09.559 --> 0:12:12.280 And what was it like for you growing up? Would 0:12:12.320 --> 0:12:14.600 you still fear the after effects of the war? 0:12:16.040 --> 0:12:19.679 Not really, but certainly the austerity. I remember going with 0:12:19.720 --> 0:12:23.280 my mum to the to the grocery store and she 0:12:23.320 --> 0:12:29.480 would have a Russian book still, so I didn't know 0:12:29.520 --> 0:12:32.000 anything else, so it didn't feel like austerity to me. 0:12:32.760 --> 0:12:37.600 But we were a sort of working class family. We 0:12:37.679 --> 0:12:42.600 didn't go out to restaurants, we didn't go on luxury holidays. 0:12:43.360 --> 0:12:47.800 But I lived in a lovely part of North Manchester, 0:12:49.559 --> 0:12:51.880 an area where there are lots of other kids of 0:12:52.000 --> 0:12:54.160 the same age as me. I didn't have any brothers 0:12:54.240 --> 0:12:56.640 or sisters, but I certainly have had lots of friends 0:12:57.200 --> 0:13:03.280 and it was a very happy and artistically it was. 0:13:04.679 --> 0:13:06.720 We were listening to me and my friends were listening 0:13:06.800 --> 0:13:10.480 to music from the ages of you know, like nine, 0:13:10.600 --> 0:13:15.760 ten eleven, listening to American music. We had radio Luxembourg, 0:13:16.640 --> 0:13:21.480 and I actually became aware of music about the age 0:13:21.520 --> 0:13:25.440 of seven, and my parents always encouraged me with music. 0:13:25.760 --> 0:13:28.440 Of course, I think we talked about this before. My 0:13:28.520 --> 0:13:33.760 dad was very helpful with me with the writing lyrics 0:13:33.800 --> 0:13:38.160 with me for a lot of those early songs. So 0:13:38.559 --> 0:13:43.600 I grew up in a very encouraging atmosphere. My parents 0:13:43.679 --> 0:13:48.400 were both involved in amateur dramatics, so every Friday night, 0:13:48.480 --> 0:13:52.080 lots of different people would come round to the house, 0:13:52.679 --> 0:13:55.280 a lot of theatrical types, which was great. 0:13:55.320 --> 0:13:57.679 I loved that, and I remember. 0:13:57.400 --> 0:13:59.960 Myself sort of sitting at the top of the stair 0:14:00.160 --> 0:14:03.600 was listening to all this chatter going on downstairs, and 0:14:03.640 --> 0:14:06.600 maybe there was some sort of show business, although I 0:14:06.640 --> 0:14:08.880 don't think of myself being in show business, but I 0:14:08.920 --> 0:14:13.199 suppose I am in reality. I got that bug from 0:14:13.520 --> 0:14:15.679 from these people that came to visit the house. 0:14:17.440 --> 0:14:19.880 And at what point did you start playing an instrument? 0:14:21.000 --> 0:14:24.440 I wanted to be a drummer, so I started playing 0:14:24.480 --> 0:14:28.520 when I was about seven. My mum had a handbag 0:14:28.560 --> 0:14:30.840 that had like a serrated surface, and I used to 0:14:30.920 --> 0:14:36.160 use clothes brushes to like do that, and I play 0:14:36.200 --> 0:14:39.120 along to whatever was on what was called the light 0:14:39.280 --> 0:14:45.560 program on the radio at that time. But then when 0:14:45.560 --> 0:14:47.600 I was the most important thing that happened. When I 0:14:47.640 --> 0:14:51.000 was eleven, a cousin of mine bought me a guitar 0:14:51.560 --> 0:14:55.800 he'd been on holiday in Spain, and that that and 0:14:57.240 --> 0:15:01.280 the time that it was the music that I was 0:15:01.360 --> 0:15:05.440 listening to, that was really a massive turning point. So 0:15:05.480 --> 0:15:07.920 we were listening to Me and MA contemporaries were listening 0:15:07.960 --> 0:15:13.160 to Little Richard, Chuck Berry, the every Brothers, Buddy Holly, 0:15:16.040 --> 0:15:22.720 Ricky Nelson, all these great records coming out of America, 0:15:22.880 --> 0:15:28.080 and I guess those records are still in in my 0:15:28.680 --> 0:15:32.600 sort of DNA today. And then we also had the 0:15:32.600 --> 0:15:36.680 there was a skiffle era came up, which said that 0:15:37.640 --> 0:15:40.120 sort of informed us that we could make music ourselves. 0:15:40.880 --> 0:15:42.880 Whether we could play or not was another matter, but 0:15:42.920 --> 0:15:46.160 it didn't seem to matter. It was just getting that 0:15:46.320 --> 0:15:48.920 love of playing with other people that has never. 0:15:48.840 --> 0:15:52.120 Okay, skiffle was a big English thing. For those people 0:15:52.240 --> 0:15:55.280 don't know, take a second and describe skiffle. 0:15:55.680 --> 0:15:59.880 Okay, So it's like like kind of country stroke folk music. 0:16:01.080 --> 0:16:03.800 But it was the first time that if you can 0:16:03.840 --> 0:16:06.840 imagine that, the main thing that people were listening to 0:16:07.560 --> 0:16:12.120 was sort of big band music. So it's not it's 0:16:12.120 --> 0:16:15.480 impossible to form a big band, well not impossible, but 0:16:15.560 --> 0:16:17.560 highly unlikely that you're going to be able to perform 0:16:17.600 --> 0:16:19.960 a big band with your mates. But when we saw 0:16:20.000 --> 0:16:24.440 people like Lonnie Donegan, who was doing things like Rock 0:16:24.480 --> 0:16:29.640 Island Line playing with he was would playing guitar and 0:16:29.760 --> 0:16:32.720 have another guitarist, have a bass player and someone playing 0:16:33.280 --> 0:16:37.840 like a washboard instead of proper drums. Suddenly it was 0:16:37.920 --> 0:16:41.080 like we could hunt around these We didn't have guitars 0:16:41.120 --> 0:16:43.560 lying around the house, but certainly it was sort of 0:16:43.640 --> 0:16:47.440 very homemade sort of interestruments. Like I think like instead 0:16:47.480 --> 0:16:50.640 of a bass, you'd have a like a broomstick handle 0:16:50.760 --> 0:16:54.640 with a piece of string attached to a like a 0:16:54.680 --> 0:16:58.520 wooden box, and it would make some kind of sound 0:16:58.680 --> 0:17:03.520 similar to a like a double bass. So it was 0:17:03.560 --> 0:17:06.879 a lot of fun and really sort of introduced a 0:17:06.880 --> 0:17:09.800 lot of people to playing together with other people. 0:17:11.440 --> 0:17:14.240 And other than like I mean, was this kind of 0:17:14.280 --> 0:17:18.320 like street corner singing rapped today where everybody had a 0:17:18.359 --> 0:17:19.040 skiffle group. 0:17:19.920 --> 0:17:21.480 There were a lot of skiffle groups. 0:17:21.760 --> 0:17:24.760 Yeah, there were a lot of them, and like one 0:17:24.760 --> 0:17:28.280 of the boys had a guitar, but he couldn't play it, 0:17:28.320 --> 0:17:30.440 but it didn't seem to matter. He had it, so 0:17:30.920 --> 0:17:34.479 he sort of held it and hit it or scrummed it. 0:17:34.920 --> 0:17:37.400 God knows what sounded like. But it was a lot 0:17:37.400 --> 0:17:39.600 of fun. That was the main thing. It was fun 0:17:40.119 --> 0:17:42.960 and we enjoyed it. And after the I think after 0:17:43.040 --> 0:17:48.879 the the skiffle era, the next main thing was Cliff 0:17:48.960 --> 0:17:53.679 Richard and the Shadows. That had a massive influence on people, 0:17:53.720 --> 0:17:56.399 particularly wanting to play the guitar. 0:17:56.680 --> 0:17:58.200 That was major. 0:17:58.480 --> 0:18:00.920 And then, of course the most clon and thing hand, 0:18:01.720 --> 0:18:05.920 which was the Beatles. And if I had any doubt 0:18:05.960 --> 0:18:07.879 about what I wanted to do with the rest of 0:18:07.920 --> 0:18:11.480 my life, that was okay when I heard them. 0:18:12.600 --> 0:18:16.520 We know the Beatles. Certainly they were on Ed Sullivan 0:18:16.600 --> 0:18:21.119 of February sixty four. Liverpool is really not that far 0:18:21.160 --> 0:18:22.760 from where you grew up, but if you don't have 0:18:22.800 --> 0:18:25.399 a car, could be, you know, might as well be 0:18:25.560 --> 0:18:29.240 on the moon. But we hear all these stories. There 0:18:29.320 --> 0:18:33.120 was a scene in Liverpool. They played in Hamburg. They 0:18:33.160 --> 0:18:36.679 broke a couple of years earlier, at sixty two in 0:18:36.920 --> 0:18:40.720 the UK. How did you discover the Beatles? When did 0:18:40.720 --> 0:18:43.000 they break it? How much of a scene was there. 0:18:43.000 --> 0:18:44.840 What did it feel like In the UK. 0:18:46.520 --> 0:18:50.600 The beach was when the beat was broke, it was 0:18:53.119 --> 0:18:56.879 how can I describe it? It was massive, absolutely massive. 0:18:56.920 --> 0:19:02.719 It took over all my friends and my life. We 0:19:02.800 --> 0:19:07.400 became we fell in love, we became obsessed with them. 0:19:08.160 --> 0:19:10.159 The first time I saw a picture of them was 0:19:10.200 --> 0:19:13.280 on a cover of a magazine called Mersey Beat. And 0:19:13.359 --> 0:19:19.480 so out of this era where we had artists in 0:19:19.680 --> 0:19:23.680 you know, nice suits, with nice, you know, expensive Fender 0:19:23.720 --> 0:19:29.040 Stackcastic guitars with very neat hair, suddenly we had these 0:19:29.080 --> 0:19:32.359 four guys with what appeared then to be really long 0:19:32.440 --> 0:19:38.520 hair on these having these guitars that we've never seen before, 0:19:39.720 --> 0:19:44.760 wearing different sort of clothes, looking quite scruffy, standing in 0:19:45.119 --> 0:19:50.840 like a bomb site. And it was absolutely breathtaking, That's 0:19:50.880 --> 0:19:54.360 all I can say. And of course that combined with well, 0:19:54.400 --> 0:19:56.399 the first record that we all heard was Loving Me Do, 0:19:57.640 --> 0:20:03.120 and the b side of that was just phenomenal and 0:20:03.160 --> 0:20:04.320 it changed people's lives. 0:20:04.920 --> 0:20:05.720 It was that big. 0:20:13.680 --> 0:20:18.760 In the US, we had the British invasion, but with 0:20:18.880 --> 0:20:22.000 these acts Dave Clark five, did all these acts exist 0:20:22.480 --> 0:20:26.199 and they just got ah grease to the top or 0:20:26.359 --> 0:20:28.080 was it more like this is big, we all have 0:20:28.119 --> 0:20:30.240 to form bands, we all have to make music. 0:20:32.240 --> 0:20:36.280 Well, they were. I think they were my biggest inspiration. 0:20:36.440 --> 0:20:39.119 I think the most important thing that happened to me 0:20:39.680 --> 0:20:46.239 by the Beatles was being encouraged to write songs, and 0:20:46.280 --> 0:20:49.040 it encouraged you know, loads of other people to write songs. 0:20:49.040 --> 0:20:51.720 Suddenly here was a band that was completely self contained. 0:20:53.240 --> 0:20:55.280 I mean before that you would have to go down 0:20:55.320 --> 0:20:58.679 to a place like the Denmark Street, which is a 0:20:58.920 --> 0:21:03.000 kind of timpanale of London, and sort of go and 0:21:03.040 --> 0:21:05.560 ask for if you could, go into a publisher and 0:21:05.640 --> 0:21:11.439 ask for us for something to record. But with the Beatles, 0:21:11.680 --> 0:21:13.439 they were like saying, you know that you can do 0:21:13.480 --> 0:21:14.160 this on your own. 0:21:16.000 --> 0:21:20.359 Okay, the Beatles hit You're like sixteen, At what point 0:21:20.400 --> 0:21:22.600 do you start writing? At what point do you form 0:21:22.640 --> 0:21:23.080 a band? 0:21:23.880 --> 0:21:28.120 I'd already started forming bands. I was already doing that anyway. 0:21:29.040 --> 0:21:31.800 But the one thing that the Beatles did, I guess 0:21:32.080 --> 0:21:33.960 was I was with a band and it was kind 0:21:33.960 --> 0:21:36.320 of like a cabaret band and which so we did 0:21:36.320 --> 0:21:41.399 have Fender stratocasters and the suits, and I was getting 0:21:41.440 --> 0:21:44.439 really fed up with that and we used to rehearse 0:21:44.800 --> 0:21:49.640 at a club in North Manchester called the Jewish Lads Brigade, 0:21:50.280 --> 0:21:52.320 and the deal was that we you know, there were 0:21:52.359 --> 0:21:55.800 a few bands that rehearsed there and they give us 0:21:55.800 --> 0:21:58.160 a room for free and we would play at their 0:21:58.440 --> 0:21:59.960 you know, social events. 0:22:00.680 --> 0:22:01.400 That was the deal. 0:22:01.920 --> 0:22:04.720 And one in one of the other bands was Kevin 0:22:04.760 --> 0:22:07.760 Godley and I used to listen to him playing and 0:22:07.800 --> 0:22:09.600 I thought, God, he's really fantastic. 0:22:09.720 --> 0:22:11.520 So I decided to. 0:22:11.520 --> 0:22:14.080 Leave the Mockingbirds, took two of the boys with me 0:22:14.359 --> 0:22:17.800 and nicked Kevin from this other band, and we formed 0:22:17.800 --> 0:22:21.679 a band called the Mockingbirds, which made we made a 0:22:21.680 --> 0:22:26.560 few records, nothing really happened, and that disbanded. 0:22:28.760 --> 0:22:31.560 Really not long before we phoned tezc. 0:22:33.600 --> 0:22:38.119 Okay, so, how many songs did you write before you 0:22:38.200 --> 0:22:39.280 wrote For Your Love? 0:22:40.400 --> 0:22:41.639 I don't think very many. 0:22:43.320 --> 0:22:45.800 I can't actually remember, but it might be, you know, 0:22:45.880 --> 0:22:47.440 a handful, I would say. 0:22:49.400 --> 0:22:50.520 Before I wrote for Your Love. 0:22:51.160 --> 0:22:53.280 And were you disappointed? I mean, it was great you 0:22:53.320 --> 0:22:56.199 had this huge success. What was your dream to be 0:22:56.400 --> 0:23:00.720 like the Beatles and record the songs yourself and have success? 0:23:01.080 --> 0:23:01.680 Not at all. 0:23:01.920 --> 0:23:05.400 I was just blown away that a band that actually 0:23:05.520 --> 0:23:09.440 loved the yards I was a big fan of theirs anyway, 0:23:10.480 --> 0:23:12.840 had recorded one of my songs and it had been 0:23:12.840 --> 0:23:15.399 a big hit. It was amazing to me. I was 0:23:15.680 --> 0:23:16.600 very very happy. 0:23:17.160 --> 0:23:17.320 You know. 0:23:17.359 --> 0:23:20.280 I thought, if I'm going to be like a jobbing 0:23:20.520 --> 0:23:24.040 songwriter for the rest of my life or well, who knows, 0:23:24.359 --> 0:23:27.320 then that's that's that's okay by me. 0:23:29.200 --> 0:23:31.360 And you say your father helped you with the lyrics, 0:23:32.080 --> 0:23:32.960 was more about. 0:23:32.720 --> 0:23:36.840 That, okay. So when people ask what did your dad do? 0:23:37.440 --> 0:23:41.840 I say he was a writer. He wrote plays, he 0:23:41.920 --> 0:23:46.320 wrote stories, he wrote poetry, but he never actually did 0:23:46.320 --> 0:23:50.639 it professionally because he couldn't afford to. He had a 0:23:50.680 --> 0:23:57.880 regular job. But his passion was words, and I think 0:23:57.920 --> 0:24:02.320 I inherited that. So I would write a lyric and 0:24:02.359 --> 0:24:04.040 he'd go, let me have a look at that, and 0:24:04.080 --> 0:24:08.240 he'd make it better. Sometimes he'd come up with like 0:24:08.800 --> 0:24:13.639 song titles and parts of songs, I mean, whole chunks 0:24:13.640 --> 0:24:17.719 of lyrics as well. So he was really but I 0:24:17.800 --> 0:24:22.439 was really lucky that I was, you know, living with 0:24:22.760 --> 0:24:25.879 a lyricist there happened to be my dad. 0:24:26.000 --> 0:24:27.720 I mean, you know, I'll give you an example. 0:24:27.760 --> 0:24:30.400 I came home one day and he gave me this 0:24:30.680 --> 0:24:35.000 I'd given him a song title idea, and he presented 0:24:35.040 --> 0:24:38.560 me with this first verse of bus stop and it 0:24:38.720 --> 0:24:41.720 was bus stop wet day, she's there. I say, please 0:24:41.720 --> 0:24:45.560 share my umbrella. And I looked at the lyrics and 0:24:45.600 --> 0:24:47.640 I heard the melody in my head and I just 0:24:47.960 --> 0:24:50.320