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Speaker 1: Welcome, Welcome, Welcome back to the Bob Webstats podcast. My

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Speaker 1: yesterday is the one and only Raham Goldman Ram. You're

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Speaker 1: bringing ten c C to the States. Why now?

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Speaker 2: Why now? Well, that's a very good question.

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Speaker 3: I think what's happened is that I've been touring as

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Speaker 3: ten CC for many, many years now, and even though

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Speaker 3: I'm the only original member, we've just been doing better

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Speaker 3: and better selling out wherever we go, and have obviously

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Speaker 3: caught the eye of some American promoters who are you know,

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Speaker 3: want us to come over And I'm really delighted to

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Speaker 3: be coming back. It's a long time since we were

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Speaker 3: over in the States.

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Speaker 1: Okay, I remember seeing you on the Bloody Tour tour.

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Speaker 1: When was the last time ten CC was in the

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Speaker 1: United States?

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Speaker 3: Well, actually there was a gig. There was a one

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Speaker 3: off gig in New York. It must have been about

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Speaker 3: maybe fourteen, maybe fifteen years ago even and it was

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Speaker 3: an in and out thing.

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Speaker 2: So I don't know.

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Speaker 3: Why we just did one one one gig. But before

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Speaker 3: that it was we're talking about sort of mid seventies

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Speaker 3: with the original lineup.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that's what I saw at the Santa Monica Civic.

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Speaker 1: So someone comes to the show.

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Speaker 3: What might they expect, Well, they're going to get all

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Speaker 3: the all the hits and more. You know, we had

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Speaker 3: eleven big hits in the in the UK and various

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Speaker 3: other places in the world, so you're going to hear that.

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Speaker 3: You're going to hear also various album tracks that we

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Speaker 3: like to play and that our fans have quested. There's

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Speaker 3: going to be one new song in it as well

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Speaker 3: that I feel entitled to put in. It's a song

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Speaker 3: I wrote about the James Webspace telescope, and because it

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Speaker 3: was about it is astronomical, I asked Brian Made to

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Speaker 3: play on it, which he did, and he plays guitar

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Speaker 3: on it. He does back in vocals on it. It's

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Speaker 3: called Floating in Heaven.

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Speaker 1: Great and I noticed that Kevin Godly joined you with

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Speaker 1: the Royal Albert Wall. How did that come to be?

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Speaker 3: Well, Kevin and I have always remained good friends ever

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Speaker 3: since he and Loe left the band, and as it

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Speaker 3: was the Albert Hall a special, very special place to play,

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Speaker 3: as anybody will tell you, I thought it'd be a

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Speaker 3: nice idea for Kevin to join us to sing the

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Speaker 3: appropriately titled Old wild Man, which was what he sang.

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Speaker 3: Actually what happened was he appears on our screen singing

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Speaker 3: somewhere in Hollywood from our sheet music album. And so

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Speaker 3: what happened was when the song is finished and he

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Speaker 3: walks off the screen stage right, and then he appeared

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Speaker 3: stage right walking on to the stage. And it was

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Speaker 3: really quite a moment. I mean, the audience were gobsmacked.

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Speaker 3: Actually he sang, he said a few words, he sang

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Speaker 3: all wow men, and then we did cry, which was

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Speaker 3: a big Goblin Cream hit, and it was really quite

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Speaker 3: a moment, quite emotional, I have to say.

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Speaker 1: And I love that song A Dog up in Beverly Hills. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's crazy. And one has to ask, we're are Eric

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Speaker 1: and lawl today.

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Speaker 3: Eric I haven't heard from for years and years. You know,

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Speaker 3: I don't know what's happened with him lol. I know

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Speaker 3: has been active. In fact, quite a few years ago,

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Speaker 3: we were rehearsing in the same place that Loll was

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Speaker 3: rehearsing with a bank called the Producers that he has

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Speaker 3: with the Trevor Horn, and he was actually rehearsing in

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Speaker 3: the in the room next to us, and I had

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Speaker 3: a very nice chat with him. As it happens. But

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Speaker 3: I haven't seen for a while. It's really Kevin is

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Speaker 3: the only one to have any constant to contact.

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Speaker 1: With and when you play shows in the UK and

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Speaker 1: I'm a continent, are these basically people who remember the

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Speaker 1: big hits from the seventies or are there any younger

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Speaker 1: generations who've discovered ken CC.

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Speaker 3: I think there's three generations now. There's the more mature

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Speaker 3: audience that you would expect. There's my eldest kids age,

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Speaker 3: which is in their forties, and there's a younger crowd coming,

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Speaker 3: I mean twenty plus coming as well, and that's really

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Speaker 3: gratifying to see.

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Speaker 2: I love it when I see younger kids in the audience.

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Speaker 3: You know, maybe they've listened to our music because of

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Speaker 3: their parents listen to it. It's played in the house

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Speaker 3: or by the internet.

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Speaker 1: Okay, the Tennessee C Records who owns those, but.

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Speaker 3: Well they're with the Universal now. They were with various

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Speaker 3: other record companies, Phonogram UK Records, which was our first label.

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Speaker 2: I think I think Hypnosis have actually got that those

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Speaker 2: first albums that were on Jonathan King's label, but the

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Speaker 2: others are with the Universal.

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Speaker 1: And at this lead deep the way we have major

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Speaker 1: label accounting. The royalties come in from the Tennessee ce

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Speaker 1: records or do they still say because of all the advances,

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Speaker 1: you're in a negative position.

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Speaker 2: Oh, I don't think.

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Speaker 3: I think all advances a long time ago or were

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Speaker 3: paid off. So yeah, roads are still still paid Yeah, okay.

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Speaker 1: And in terms of your songs, who owns those songs now?

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Speaker 3: Well, some of the songs are with various various publishers

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Speaker 3: throughout you know, they're with loads of different people. I

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Speaker 3: have a deal now with BMG, who I find very

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Speaker 3: good to work with. Here my music publishing was which

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Speaker 3: a lot of the songs are with. In fact, the

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Speaker 3: bulk of the TANCC ones, if not all of them,

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Speaker 3: are now owned by Sony.

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Speaker 1: And at this late date, with so many people selling

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Speaker 1: their rights, is that something you would contemplate?

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Speaker 4: I have contemplated it full stop. And what have you thought, Well,

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Speaker 4: I've thought I've thought that it's I look at it

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Speaker 4: in two ways.

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Speaker 3: There's a financial side of it, but there's also the

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Speaker 3: emotional side of it. And I tend to think of

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Speaker 3: the emotional side of things.

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Speaker 1: So we would not anticipate reading you selling your rights

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Speaker 1: in the near future.

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Speaker 2: I'd say never, say never.

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Speaker 1: Okay, let's go back to your you were first known

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Speaker 1: as a songwriter. The first song you wrote that had

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Speaker 1: international traction was for Your Love, which was covered by

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Speaker 1: the Yardbirds. How old were you and how did you

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Speaker 1: write that song?

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Speaker 3: Okay, I was nineteen when I wrote it. One record

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Speaker 3: that had a massive influence on me was The House

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Speaker 3: of the Rising I loved the chord sequence in it,

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Speaker 3: and it's kind.

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Speaker 2: Of the chord sequence of the House of the Rising

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Speaker 2: Sun is kind of.

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Speaker 3: The opposite of what musicians called that C A minor,

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Speaker 3: F and G. Do you know that kind of You've

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Speaker 3: heard it a million times, But the House of the

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Speaker 3: Rising Sun went from a minor to C, then to

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Speaker 3: D then to F.

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Speaker 2: So it was kind of like it turned that chord

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Speaker 2: sequence on its head.

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Speaker 3: And I use that chord sequence, particularly the first two chords,

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Speaker 3: going from the minor to the relevant major and a

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Speaker 3: lot of songs. Not only was it on for Your

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Speaker 3: Love but Heartful of Soul No Milk. Today, I don't

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Speaker 3: know whether it's it's obvious to people that it is

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Speaker 3: the same sequence, but those two chords have been very

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Speaker 3: good for me. So I wrote the song and my

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Speaker 3: manager at the time said, this is a great song.

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Speaker 3: Why don't we get it to the Beatles, So I

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Speaker 3: said that, I think the Beatles were okay in the

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Speaker 3: songwriting department. But as it happened, the Beatles were doing

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Speaker 3: a Christmas show at the Hammersmith Odion being supported by

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Speaker 3: the Yardbirds, and I think that gave our publisher the

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Speaker 3: idea to give it to the Yardbirds, because you knew

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Speaker 3: that at that time they were looking to have sort

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Speaker 3: of more commercial success.

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Speaker 2: You know, they'd been a.

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Speaker 3: Really well known with R and B band, really, but

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Speaker 3: they decided that they wanted some chart success, I guess,

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Speaker 3: and that was one of the reasons why Eric Clapton

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Speaker 3: actually left the band. I think that was the last

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Speaker 3: straw fame of them recording what he thought was a

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Speaker 3: commercial song.

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Speaker 1: So you know, today you make a demo and that's

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Speaker 1: passed around. Is that what happened? Did you cut a

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Speaker 1: demo for four Your Love?

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Speaker 3: I cut a demo and the demo had the bongos on,

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Speaker 3: but it didn't have the harpsichord on that the odd

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Speaker 3: Birds put on it. And the story goes that the

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Speaker 3: they went to the studio and expecting them to be

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Speaker 3: a keyboard or an organ or some sort of keyboard

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Speaker 3: but not harpsichord. But there was a harpsichord in the

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Speaker 3: studio and they decided to use that, which I think

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Speaker 3: was a stroke of genius and divine good luck.

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Speaker 1: And how did you first hear their version?

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Speaker 3: I think I was sent an ascetate the by the

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Speaker 3: publisher and it blew my mind.

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Speaker 1: Okay, blew your mind to what ded we? Was it

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Speaker 1: similar with your vision of the song?

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Speaker 2: Uh?

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Speaker 3: It was similar, but it was really the It was

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Speaker 3: the harpsichord that was the big difference.

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Speaker 2: You know.

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Speaker 3: They had kept the bongos. That was that's for sure.

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Speaker 1: And when it became worldwide hit? What was that like

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Speaker 1: for you?

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Speaker 2: It was fantastic, as you can imagine, wonderful.

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Speaker 3: It was kind of like, you know, I'd known from

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Speaker 3: an early age that I wanted to be in music,

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Speaker 3: and I didn't know in what way, but music was

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Speaker 3: and still is my my great love. And you know,

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Speaker 3: this was validation, I guess.

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Speaker 1: So now you have this hit other acts, I'm calling, well,

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Speaker 1: you wrote this for the Yard Words we need songs?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yes, that really? You know.

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Speaker 4: I I.

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Speaker 3: Wrote two songs for the Hollies, look Through Any Window

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Speaker 3: and bust Stop. I wrote Heart Full of soul and

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Speaker 3: evil hearted view for the yardbirds no milk today, for

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Speaker 3: Hermit's Hermits. There were some others, but those are the

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Speaker 3: kind of, you know, the major ones from that period.

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Speaker 1: Okay, let's go back to the beginning. You're from Salford,

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Speaker 1: outside of Manchester.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, of North Manchester. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: And what was it like for you growing up? Would

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Speaker 1: you still fear the after effects of the war?

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Speaker 3: Not really, but certainly the austerity. I remember going with

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Speaker 3: my mum to the to the grocery store and she

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Speaker 3: would have a Russian book still, so I didn't know

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Speaker 3: anything else, so it didn't feel like austerity to me.

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Speaker 3: But we were a sort of working class family. We

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Speaker 3: didn't go out to restaurants, we didn't go on luxury holidays.

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Speaker 3: But I lived in a lovely part of North Manchester,

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Speaker 3: an area where there are lots of other kids of

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Speaker 3: the same age as me. I didn't have any brothers

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Speaker 3: or sisters, but I certainly have had lots of friends

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Speaker 3: and it was a very happy and artistically it was.

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Speaker 3: We were listening to me and my friends were listening

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Speaker 3: to music from the ages of you know, like nine,

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Speaker 3: ten eleven, listening to American music. We had radio Luxembourg,

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Speaker 3: and I actually became aware of music about the age

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Speaker 3: of seven, and my parents always encouraged me with music.

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Speaker 3: Of course, I think we talked about this before. My

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Speaker 3: dad was very helpful with me with the writing lyrics

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Speaker 3: with me for a lot of those early songs. So

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Speaker 3: I grew up in a very encouraging atmosphere. My parents

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Speaker 3: were both involved in amateur dramatics, so every Friday night,

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Speaker 3: lots of different people would come round to the house,

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Speaker 3: a lot of theatrical types, which was great.

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Speaker 2: I loved that, and I remember.

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Speaker 3: Myself sort of sitting at the top of the stair

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Speaker 3: was listening to all this chatter going on downstairs, and

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Speaker 3: maybe there was some sort of show business, although I

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Speaker 3: don't think of myself being in show business, but I

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Speaker 3: suppose I am in reality. I got that bug from

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Speaker 3: from these people that came to visit the house.

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Speaker 1: And at what point did you start playing an instrument?

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Speaker 3: I wanted to be a drummer, so I started playing

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Speaker 3: when I was about seven. My mum had a handbag

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Speaker 3: that had like a serrated surface, and I used to

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Speaker 3: use clothes brushes to like do that, and I play

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Speaker 3: along to whatever was on what was called the light

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Speaker 3: program on the radio at that time. But then when

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Speaker 3: I was the most important thing that happened. When I

237
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Speaker 3: was eleven, a cousin of mine bought me a guitar

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Speaker 3: he'd been on holiday in Spain, and that that and

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Speaker 3: the time that it was the music that I was

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Speaker 3: listening to, that was really a massive turning point. So

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Speaker 3: we were listening to Me and MA contemporaries were listening

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Speaker 3: to Little Richard, Chuck Berry, the every Brothers, Buddy Holly,

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Speaker 3: Ricky Nelson, all these great records coming out of America,

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Speaker 3: and I guess those records are still in in my

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Speaker 3: sort of DNA today. And then we also had the

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Speaker 3: there was a skiffle era came up, which said that

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Speaker 3: sort of informed us that we could make music ourselves.

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Speaker 3: Whether we could play or not was another matter, but

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Speaker 3: it didn't seem to matter. It was just getting that

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Speaker 3: love of playing with other people that has never.

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Speaker 1: Okay, skiffle was a big English thing. For those people

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Speaker 1: don't know, take a second and describe skiffle.

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Speaker 3: Okay, So it's like like kind of country stroke folk music.

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Speaker 3: But it was the first time that if you can

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Speaker 3: imagine that, the main thing that people were listening to

256
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Speaker 3: was sort of big band music. So it's not it's

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Speaker 3: impossible to form a big band, well not impossible, but

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Speaker 3: highly unlikely that you're going to be able to perform

259
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Speaker 3: a big band with your mates. But when we saw

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Speaker 3: people like Lonnie Donegan, who was doing things like Rock

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Speaker 3: Island Line playing with he was would playing guitar and

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Speaker 3: have another guitarist, have a bass player and someone playing

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Speaker 3: like a washboard instead of proper drums. Suddenly it was

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Speaker 3: like we could hunt around these We didn't have guitars

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Speaker 3: lying around the house, but certainly it was sort of

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Speaker 3: very homemade sort of interestruments. Like I think like instead

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Speaker 3: of a bass, you'd have a like a broomstick handle

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Speaker 3: with a piece of string attached to a like a

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Speaker 3: wooden box, and it would make some kind of sound

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Speaker 3: similar to a like a double bass. So it was

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Speaker 3: a lot of fun and really sort of introduced a

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Speaker 3: lot of people to playing together with other people.

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Speaker 1: And other than like I mean, was this kind of

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Speaker 1: like street corner singing rapped today where everybody had a

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Speaker 1: skiffle group.

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Speaker 2: There were a lot of skiffle groups.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, there were a lot of them, and like one

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Speaker 3: of the boys had a guitar, but he couldn't play it,

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Speaker 3: but it didn't seem to matter. He had it, so

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Speaker 3: he sort of held it and hit it or scrummed it.

281
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Speaker 3: God knows what sounded like. But it was a lot

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Speaker 3: of fun. That was the main thing. It was fun

283
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Speaker 3: and we enjoyed it. And after the I think after

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Speaker 3: the the skiffle era, the next main thing was Cliff

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Speaker 3: Richard and the Shadows. That had a massive influence on people,

286
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Speaker 3: particularly wanting to play the guitar.

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Speaker 2: That was major.

288
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Speaker 3: And then, of course the most clon and thing hand,

289
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Speaker 3: which was the Beatles. And if I had any doubt

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Speaker 3: about what I wanted to do with the rest of

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Speaker 3: my life, that was okay when I heard them.

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Speaker 1: We know the Beatles. Certainly they were on Ed Sullivan

293
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Speaker 1: of February sixty four. Liverpool is really not that far

294
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Speaker 1: from where you grew up, but if you don't have

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Speaker 1: a car, could be, you know, might as well be

296
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Speaker 1: on the moon. But we hear all these stories. There

297
00:18:29,320 --> 00:18:33,120
Speaker 1: was a scene in Liverpool. They played in Hamburg. They

298
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Speaker 1: broke a couple of years earlier, at sixty two in

299
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Speaker 1: the UK. How did you discover the Beatles? When did

300
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Speaker 1: they break it? How much of a scene was there.

301
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Speaker 1: What did it feel like In the UK.

302
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Speaker 3: The beach was when the beat was broke, it was

303
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Speaker 3: how can I describe it? It was massive, absolutely massive.

304
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Speaker 3: It took over all my friends and my life. We

305
00:19:02,800 --> 00:19:07,400
Speaker 3: became we fell in love, we became obsessed with them.

306
00:19:08,160 --> 00:19:10,159
Speaker 3: The first time I saw a picture of them was

307
00:19:10,200 --> 00:19:13,280
Speaker 3: on a cover of a magazine called Mersey Beat. And

308
00:19:13,359 --> 00:19:19,480
Speaker 3: so out of this era where we had artists in

309
00:19:19,680 --> 00:19:23,680
Speaker 3: you know, nice suits, with nice, you know, expensive Fender

310
00:19:23,720 --> 00:19:29,040
Speaker 3: Stackcastic guitars with very neat hair, suddenly we had these

311
00:19:29,080 --> 00:19:32,359
Speaker 3: four guys with what appeared then to be really long

312
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Speaker 3: hair on these having these guitars that we've never seen before,

313
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Speaker 3: wearing different sort of clothes, looking quite scruffy, standing in

314
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Speaker 3: like a bomb site. And it was absolutely breathtaking, That's

315
00:19:50,880 --> 00:19:54,360
Speaker 3: all I can say. And of course that combined with well,

316
00:19:54,400 --> 00:19:56,399
Speaker 3: the first record that we all heard was Loving Me Do,

317
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Speaker 3: and the b side of that was just phenomenal and

318
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Speaker 3: it changed people's lives.

319
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Speaker 2: It was that big.

320
00:20:13,680 --> 00:20:18,760
Speaker 1: In the US, we had the British invasion, but with

321
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Speaker 1: these acts Dave Clark five, did all these acts exist

322
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Speaker 1: and they just got ah grease to the top or

323
00:20:26,359 --> 00:20:28,080
Speaker 1: was it more like this is big, we all have

324
00:20:28,119 --> 00:20:30,240
Speaker 1: to form bands, we all have to make music.

325
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Speaker 3: Well, they were. I think they were my biggest inspiration.

326
00:20:36,440 --> 00:20:39,119
Speaker 3: I think the most important thing that happened to me

327
00:20:39,680 --> 00:20:46,239
Speaker 3: by the Beatles was being encouraged to write songs, and

328
00:20:46,280 --> 00:20:49,040
Speaker 3: it encouraged you know, loads of other people to write songs.

329
00:20:49,040 --> 00:20:51,720
Speaker 3: Suddenly here was a band that was completely self contained.

330
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Speaker 3: I mean before that you would have to go down

331
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Speaker 3: to a place like the Denmark Street, which is a

332
00:20:58,920 --> 00:21:03,000
Speaker 3: kind of timpanale of London, and sort of go and

333
00:21:03,040 --> 00:21:05,560
Speaker 3: ask for if you could, go into a publisher and

334
00:21:05,640 --> 00:21:11,439
Speaker 3: ask for us for something to record. But with the Beatles,

335
00:21:11,680 --> 00:21:13,439
Speaker 3: they were like saying, you know that you can do

336
00:21:13,480 --> 00:21:14,160
Speaker 3: this on your own.

337
00:21:16,000 --> 00:21:20,359
Speaker 1: Okay, the Beatles hit You're like sixteen, At what point

338
00:21:20,400 --> 00:21:22,600
Speaker 1: do you start writing? At what point do you form

339
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Speaker 1: a band?

340
00:21:23,880 --> 00:21:28,120
Speaker 3: I'd already started forming bands. I was already doing that anyway.

341
00:21:29,040 --> 00:21:31,800
Speaker 3: But the one thing that the Beatles did, I guess

342
00:21:32,080 --> 00:21:33,960
Speaker 3: was I was with a band and it was kind

343
00:21:33,960 --> 00:21:36,320
Speaker 3: of like a cabaret band and which so we did

344
00:21:36,320 --> 00:21:41,399
Speaker 3: have Fender stratocasters and the suits, and I was getting

345
00:21:41,440 --> 00:21:44,439
Speaker 3: really fed up with that and we used to rehearse

346
00:21:44,800 --> 00:21:49,640
Speaker 3: at a club in North Manchester called the Jewish Lads Brigade,

347
00:21:50,280 --> 00:21:52,320
Speaker 3: and the deal was that we you know, there were

348
00:21:52,359 --> 00:21:55,800
Speaker 3: a few bands that rehearsed there and they give us

349
00:21:55,800 --> 00:21:58,160
Speaker 3: a room for free and we would play at their

350
00:21:58,440 --> 00:21:59,960
Speaker 3: you know, social events.

351
00:22:00,680 --> 00:22:01,400
Speaker 2: That was the deal.

352
00:22:01,920 --> 00:22:04,720
Speaker 3: And one in one of the other bands was Kevin

353
00:22:04,760 --> 00:22:07,760
Speaker 3: Godley and I used to listen to him playing and

354
00:22:07,800 --> 00:22:09,600
Speaker 3: I thought, God, he's really fantastic.

355
00:22:09,720 --> 00:22:11,520
Speaker 2: So I decided to.

356
00:22:11,520 --> 00:22:14,080
Speaker 3: Leave the Mockingbirds, took two of the boys with me

357
00:22:14,359 --> 00:22:17,800
Speaker 3: and nicked Kevin from this other band, and we formed

358
00:22:17,800 --> 00:22:21,679
Speaker 3: a band called the Mockingbirds, which made we made a

359
00:22:21,680 --> 00:22:26,560
Speaker 3: few records, nothing really happened, and that disbanded.

360
00:22:28,760 --> 00:22:31,560
Speaker 2: Really not long before we phoned tezc.

361
00:22:33,600 --> 00:22:38,119
Speaker 1: Okay, so, how many songs did you write before you

362
00:22:38,200 --> 00:22:39,280
Speaker 1: wrote For Your Love?

363
00:22:40,400 --> 00:22:41,639
Speaker 2: I don't think very many.

364
00:22:43,320 --> 00:22:45,800
Speaker 3: I can't actually remember, but it might be, you know,

365
00:22:45,880 --> 00:22:47,440
Speaker 3: a handful, I would say.

366
00:22:49,400 --> 00:22:50,520
Speaker 2: Before I wrote for Your Love.

367
00:22:51,160 --> 00:22:53,280
Speaker 1: And were you disappointed? I mean, it was great you

368
00:22:53,320 --> 00:22:56,199
Speaker 1: had this huge success. What was your dream to be

369
00:22:56,400 --> 00:23:00,720
Speaker 1: like the Beatles and record the songs yourself and have success?

370
00:23:01,080 --> 00:23:01,680
Speaker 2: Not at all.

371
00:23:01,920 --> 00:23:05,400
Speaker 3: I was just blown away that a band that actually

372
00:23:05,520 --> 00:23:09,440
Speaker 3: loved the yards I was a big fan of theirs anyway,

373
00:23:10,480 --> 00:23:12,840
Speaker 3: had recorded one of my songs and it had been

374
00:23:12,840 --> 00:23:15,399
Speaker 3: a big hit. It was amazing to me. I was

375
00:23:15,680 --> 00:23:16,600
Speaker 3: very very happy.

376
00:23:17,160 --> 00:23:17,320
Speaker 2: You know.

377
00:23:17,359 --> 00:23:20,280
Speaker 3: I thought, if I'm going to be like a jobbing

378
00:23:20,520 --> 00:23:24,040
Speaker 3: songwriter for the rest of my life or well, who knows,

379
00:23:24,359 --> 00:23:27,320
Speaker 3: then that's that's that's okay by me.

380
00:23:29,200 --> 00:23:31,360
Speaker 1: And you say your father helped you with the lyrics,

381
00:23:32,080 --> 00:23:32,960
Speaker 1: was more about.

382
00:23:32,720 --> 00:23:36,840
Speaker 3: That, okay. So when people ask what did your dad do?

383
00:23:37,440 --> 00:23:41,840
Speaker 3: I say he was a writer. He wrote plays, he

384
00:23:41,920 --> 00:23:46,320
Speaker 3: wrote stories, he wrote poetry, but he never actually did

385
00:23:46,320 --> 00:23:50,639
Speaker 3: it professionally because he couldn't afford to. He had a

386
00:23:50,680 --> 00:23:57,880
Speaker 3: regular job. But his passion was words, and I think

387
00:23:57,920 --> 00:24:02,320
Speaker 3: I inherited that. So I would write a lyric and

388
00:24:02,359 --> 00:24:04,040
Speaker 3: he'd go, let me have a look at that, and

389
00:24:04,080 --> 00:24:08,240
Speaker 3: he'd make it better. Sometimes he'd come up with like

390
00:24:08,800 --> 00:24:13,639
Speaker 3: song titles and parts of songs, I mean, whole chunks

391
00:24:13,640 --> 00:24:17,719
Speaker 3: of lyrics as well. So he was really but I

392
00:24:17,800 --> 00:24:22,439
Speaker 3: was really lucky that I was, you know, living with

393
00:24:22,760 --> 00:24:25,879
Speaker 3: a lyricist there happened to be my dad.

394
00:24:26,000 --> 00:24:27,720
Speaker 2: I mean, you know, I'll give you an example.

395
00:24:27,760 --> 00:24:30,400
Speaker 3: I came home one day and he gave me this

396
00:24:30,680 --> 00:24:35,000
Speaker 3: I'd given him a song title idea, and he presented

397
00:24:35,040 --> 00:24:38,560
Speaker 3: me with this first verse of bus stop and it

398
00:24:38,720 --> 00:24:41,720
Speaker 3: was bus stop wet day, she's there. I say, please

399
00:24:41,720 --> 00:24:45,560
Speaker 3: share my umbrella. And I looked at the lyrics and

400
00:24:45,600 --> 00:24:47,640
Speaker 3: I heard the melody in my head and I just

401
00:24:47,960 --> 00:24:50,320
Speaker 3: sort of finished it. Not all the lyrics, because he

402
00:24:50,400 --> 00:24:53,080
Speaker 3: finished a lot of the lyrics as well, but I

403
00:24:53,119 --> 00:24:56,359
Speaker 3: wrote the song in like, I don't know, ten minutes

404
00:24:56,480 --> 00:25:01,119
Speaker 3: or something, just because of that lyric that he gave me.

405
00:25:01,840 --> 00:25:03,840
Speaker 1: You wrote the song it was a big hit for

406
00:25:03,880 --> 00:25:06,760
Speaker 1: the Hollies. When you finished in ten minutes, did you

407
00:25:06,800 --> 00:25:09,440
Speaker 1: see to yourself, man, this is a hit? Oh this

408
00:25:09,520 --> 00:25:11,000
Speaker 1: is just another song I wrote.

409
00:25:11,440 --> 00:25:14,840
Speaker 3: I actually I very rarely do it, but I thought

410
00:25:15,119 --> 00:25:16,440
Speaker 3: there's something special there.

411
00:25:18,480 --> 00:25:20,920
Speaker 1: Okay, let's go back. You do for your Love? The

412
00:25:20,960 --> 00:25:24,159
Speaker 1: next big hit is hard Full of Soul. Had you

413
00:25:24,400 --> 00:25:27,199
Speaker 1: already written that when For Your Love was a hit

414
00:25:27,320 --> 00:25:28,880
Speaker 1: or did you write it subsequently?

415
00:25:29,440 --> 00:25:31,919
Speaker 2: I wrote it especially for the adverts.

416
00:25:33,040 --> 00:25:36,520
Speaker 1: That's a lot. That's a lot of pressure. So how

417
00:25:36,520 --> 00:25:37,680
Speaker 1: did you actually write it?

418
00:25:38,200 --> 00:25:39,280
Speaker 2: I didn't feel pressure.

419
00:25:39,760 --> 00:25:42,480
Speaker 3: I just thought I should, you know, I should write

420
00:25:42,640 --> 00:25:44,880
Speaker 3: write another song, and I'd love to get another song

421
00:25:44,920 --> 00:25:49,080
Speaker 3: with the advert since I'm kind of in so to speak,

422
00:25:50,200 --> 00:25:53,119
Speaker 3: and I just had this guitar riff that had this

423
00:25:53,240 --> 00:26:01,560
Speaker 3: sort of very sort of Indian Indian field and the

424
00:26:01,560 --> 00:26:04,920
Speaker 3: the the lyric my dad helped me with with the lyric.

425
00:26:05,920 --> 00:26:08,800
Speaker 3: The title actually was from my manager at the time.

426
00:26:09,280 --> 00:26:13,320
Speaker 3: I had this title, uh, and so you know, it

427
00:26:14,080 --> 00:26:16,720
Speaker 3: just everything seemed to seem to fit, and I said,

428
00:26:16,760 --> 00:26:18,240
Speaker 3: I sent it to the man know that they went

429
00:26:18,240 --> 00:26:22,199
Speaker 3: into the studio with a setar player to record, to

430
00:26:22,280 --> 00:26:25,960
Speaker 3: record the song, but the it didn't work out, and

431
00:26:26,000 --> 00:26:28,800
Speaker 3: then Jeff Beck just nailed it.

432
00:26:30,359 --> 00:26:33,120
Speaker 1: Okay, how did you come up with a line sick

433
00:26:33,160 --> 00:26:34,360
Speaker 1: in heart and lonely?

434
00:26:34,760 --> 00:26:37,000
Speaker 2: I think that was actually one of my dad's lines.

435
00:26:38,440 --> 00:26:40,000
Speaker 2: It was, yeah, it's.

436
00:26:39,880 --> 00:26:45,080
Speaker 1: So sad, and then tell us about look through any window?

437
00:26:45,880 --> 00:26:47,639
Speaker 2: Okay, look through any window?

438
00:26:48,440 --> 00:26:52,399
Speaker 3: Was the idea for that came on a I was

439
00:26:52,440 --> 00:26:56,320
Speaker 3: on a train with a friend of mine coming out

440
00:26:56,359 --> 00:27:02,440
Speaker 3: of Houston stayed in London going back up to Manchester.

441
00:27:03,480 --> 00:27:07,520
Speaker 3: And actually his name was Charlie. He was he was

442
00:27:07,520 --> 00:27:09,360
Speaker 3: a friend of mine was he was also a co

443
00:27:09,480 --> 00:27:14,240
Speaker 3: manager as well, and we were slowly coming out of

444
00:27:14,280 --> 00:27:17,560
Speaker 3: the station trying, you know, we were passing these houses,

445
00:27:17,560 --> 00:27:20,439
Speaker 3: trying to look through the windows of the houses if

446
00:27:20,480 --> 00:27:21,040
Speaker 3: we're good.

447
00:27:22,359 --> 00:27:25,240
Speaker 2: To see what was going on. And he said, look,

448
00:27:25,320 --> 00:27:28,520
Speaker 2: look look through thrillly of those windows. What can you see?

449
00:27:28,840 --> 00:27:32,360
Speaker 3: Or something like that he said, And I thought, that's

450
00:27:32,560 --> 00:27:34,600
Speaker 3: that's a that's a really good idea for a song.

451
00:27:36,760 --> 00:27:38,200
Speaker 1: And how did it get to the Hollys.

452
00:27:40,119 --> 00:27:43,480
Speaker 2: The Hollys after bus stop they.

453
00:27:43,280 --> 00:27:49,440
Speaker 3: Came round to my my house, and I think there

454
00:27:49,480 --> 00:27:55,720
Speaker 3: was Graham Nash definitely, and Tony Hicks, and I think

455
00:27:55,760 --> 00:27:57,080
Speaker 3: I played them some other stuff.

456
00:27:57,680 --> 00:28:00,200
Speaker 2: I think I actually played them no milk today. I

457
00:28:00,240 --> 00:28:01,200
Speaker 2: think I've just started.

458
00:28:02,280 --> 00:28:09,000
Speaker 3: But obviously they didn't record that, and so we sort

459
00:28:09,000 --> 00:28:14,600
Speaker 3: of had some sort of relationship. And bus Stock was

460
00:28:14,640 --> 00:28:18,920
Speaker 3: another song that was specially written for them. We did

461
00:28:19,400 --> 00:28:24,440
Speaker 3: a gig with them with the Mockingbirds as a support

462
00:28:24,520 --> 00:28:27,719
Speaker 3: act to the Hollies, and I said, I've got I've

463
00:28:27,760 --> 00:28:30,720
Speaker 3: got another song for you, and I remember going We

464
00:28:30,760 --> 00:28:34,440
Speaker 3: went into the smallest, quietest room in the place there

465
00:28:34,520 --> 00:28:37,920
Speaker 3: was Stoketown Hall, and I played it to them. I said,

466
00:28:37,960 --> 00:28:41,680
Speaker 3: it's great. I made a demo of it and.

467
00:28:40,960 --> 00:28:41,520
Speaker 2: That was it.

468
00:28:43,520 --> 00:28:47,280
Speaker 1: Okay. The Hollys and Herman's Hermons were also from the

469
00:28:47,320 --> 00:28:48,440
Speaker 1: same area you were.

470
00:28:49,200 --> 00:28:51,200
Speaker 2: Well, they were from the north of England. I mean

471
00:28:51,240 --> 00:28:51,600
Speaker 2: I was.

472
00:28:51,880 --> 00:28:56,400
Speaker 3: They were from Stockport and I was more north Manchester.

473
00:28:56,920 --> 00:29:00,000
Speaker 3: But yes, certainly not that far away from each other.

474
00:29:00,760 --> 00:29:04,000
Speaker 1: Well, we always heard in America about the scene in London.

475
00:29:04,000 --> 00:29:06,880
Speaker 1: To what degree was there a scene in the Manchester area?

476
00:29:07,400 --> 00:29:09,600
Speaker 2: Oh? Yeah, very much, so, very much so.

477
00:29:09,720 --> 00:29:11,440
Speaker 3: We had there were loads of clubs, you know, it's

478
00:29:11,480 --> 00:29:16,080
Speaker 3: a university city, loads of coffee bars that had musical

479
00:29:16,120 --> 00:29:20,360
Speaker 3: acts on, great clubs that we would go to. I

480
00:29:20,360 --> 00:29:23,280
Speaker 3: mean I got with my mates on a Saturday night.

481
00:29:23,320 --> 00:29:26,200
Speaker 3: We just go around all the clubs, checking out all

482
00:29:26,240 --> 00:29:29,880
Speaker 3: the bands and watching the guitarists and looking at all

483
00:29:29,920 --> 00:29:34,120
Speaker 3: their equipment. And Saturdays we kind of spent going around

484
00:29:34,160 --> 00:29:38,680
Speaker 3: the music shops. So there was It was a very

485
00:29:38,760 --> 00:29:41,400
Speaker 3: it was a fantastic scene in matter and still is.

486
00:29:43,040 --> 00:29:46,200
Speaker 1: And so how did you write no Milk Today? And

487
00:29:46,200 --> 00:29:47,960
Speaker 1: how did that get to Herman's hermits?

488
00:29:48,520 --> 00:29:52,480
Speaker 3: Okay, so, uh, my dad went to see one of

489
00:29:52,480 --> 00:29:53,200
Speaker 3: his friends.

490
00:29:55,160 --> 00:29:56,320
Speaker 2: His friend wasn't in.

491
00:29:56,440 --> 00:29:59,680
Speaker 3: But my dad noticed on the doorstep there was an

492
00:29:59,720 --> 00:30:03,640
Speaker 3: empty milk bottle with a note in it. And in

493
00:30:03,680 --> 00:30:08,200
Speaker 3: those days, milk was delivered to people's houses and if

494
00:30:08,200 --> 00:30:10,640
Speaker 3: you didn't want milk, you just put in a note,

495
00:30:11,280 --> 00:30:13,880
Speaker 3: no milk today. And he came back to me he said,

496
00:30:13,880 --> 00:30:16,880
Speaker 3: I've got a great idea for a song, no milk today.

497
00:30:16,920 --> 00:30:22,040
Speaker 3: I said, that's that's horrible, it's terrible, terrible. He said,

498
00:30:22,040 --> 00:30:28,400
Speaker 3: you're missing the point. It's the the milk bottle represents

499
00:30:28,440 --> 00:30:31,520
Speaker 3: the fact that the lovers left the house as no

500
00:30:31,560 --> 00:30:34,920
Speaker 3: one in the house anymore. And he came up with

501
00:30:34,920 --> 00:30:38,720
Speaker 3: that brilliant line, the bottle stands forlorn, a symbol of

502
00:30:38,800 --> 00:30:42,440
Speaker 3: the dawn, so poetry.

503
00:30:43,960 --> 00:30:45,600
Speaker 2: So I wrote the song.

504
00:30:45,760 --> 00:30:49,560
Speaker 3: We wrote the song, and my manager at the time

505
00:30:49,720 --> 00:30:55,959
Speaker 3: was the manager of Herman's Hermits, So no problem.

506
00:30:56,040 --> 00:30:58,600
Speaker 1: Okay, your father is helping you with all these songs.

507
00:30:59,480 --> 00:31:01,200
Speaker 1: Does he want credit and money?

508
00:31:01,920 --> 00:31:05,440
Speaker 3: Well, he got money. He did get money. There was

509
00:31:05,520 --> 00:31:09,480
Speaker 3: kind of like a tacit agreement that like the name

510
00:31:09,520 --> 00:31:13,080
Speaker 3: of Gouldman, like his name would be directly on top

511
00:31:13,120 --> 00:31:17,160
Speaker 3: of my name. So he never once said, and for

512
00:31:17,200 --> 00:31:18,760
Speaker 3: some reason it never occurred.

513
00:31:18,440 --> 00:31:20,760
Speaker 2: To us that he, you know, it should be Goldman Goldman.

514
00:31:21,960 --> 00:31:25,280
Speaker 3: I think he was happy that I was getting the credit,

515
00:31:25,320 --> 00:31:29,960
Speaker 3: although but I always credited him with what he did,

516
00:31:31,080 --> 00:31:36,440
Speaker 3: and he was financially rewarded as well.

517
00:31:37,960 --> 00:31:40,120
Speaker 1: Was there a tacit agreement? I had to, you know,

518
00:31:40,280 --> 00:31:41,880
Speaker 1: just with the money? How did it work?

519
00:31:43,240 --> 00:31:44,760
Speaker 2: Uh? Do you know what?

520
00:31:44,840 --> 00:31:47,600
Speaker 3: I can't remember, but he was happy and I was happy,

521
00:31:47,720 --> 00:31:49,240
Speaker 3: so everyone was happy.

522
00:31:50,320 --> 00:31:54,120
Speaker 1: Okay for your love hits? How long until you get

523
00:31:54,160 --> 00:31:56,480
Speaker 1: the money? And what do you do with the money?

524
00:31:57,160 --> 00:31:59,120
Speaker 2: You're quite interested in the money, aren't you. God?

525
00:32:00,120 --> 00:32:03,440
Speaker 1: Absolutely, because when you might when you're nineteen and you

526
00:32:03,440 --> 00:32:05,800
Speaker 1: have a hit in America, when you're nineteen and you

527
00:32:05,840 --> 00:32:08,360
Speaker 1: have a hit record, the first thing somebody does is

528
00:32:08,400 --> 00:32:08,840
Speaker 1: buy a car.

529
00:32:09,720 --> 00:32:13,920
Speaker 2: Okay, I got a nice jacket. Actually I did backar

530
00:32:14,040 --> 00:32:14,440
Speaker 2: as well.

531
00:32:15,400 --> 00:32:18,240
Speaker 3: It took several several months, and I don't think I

532
00:32:18,280 --> 00:32:20,760
Speaker 3: even't got an advance or anything not In the early

533
00:32:20,880 --> 00:32:24,840
Speaker 3: days anyway, it would take maybe nine months a year

534
00:32:24,880 --> 00:32:27,600
Speaker 3: for the money to come through. But I wasn't that

535
00:32:28,640 --> 00:32:33,560
Speaker 3: sort of bothered about that. I you know, I did reap,

536
00:32:33,840 --> 00:32:36,120
Speaker 3: you know, reaped the reward, so to speak.

537
00:32:37,960 --> 00:32:39,280
Speaker 2: So I guess. Yeah.

538
00:32:39,320 --> 00:32:41,800
Speaker 3: The first thing was a really nice jacket from a

539
00:32:42,640 --> 00:32:46,480
Speaker 3: place called Jaga that did sort of quite high end stuff.

540
00:32:48,160 --> 00:32:50,840
Speaker 1: Well did your parents say, yeah, you know, you may

541
00:32:50,880 --> 00:32:53,200
Speaker 1: never have another hit you better put this with your

542
00:32:53,200 --> 00:32:54,800
Speaker 1: borrower mits for money in the bank.

543
00:32:57,160 --> 00:32:58,000
Speaker 2: They never said that.

544
00:32:59,560 --> 00:33:02,600
Speaker 3: I don't I think they were, you know, they were

545
00:33:02,840 --> 00:33:06,440
Speaker 3: always in both my mym and dad were very very encouraging.

546
00:33:07,000 --> 00:33:09,320
Speaker 3: And I was lucky to have that in a way,

547
00:33:09,360 --> 00:33:14,480
Speaker 3: because a lot of my contemporaries were being I guess

548
00:33:14,680 --> 00:33:17,240
Speaker 3: encouraged to get a proper job or you know, a profession,

549
00:33:18,680 --> 00:33:22,120
Speaker 3: which was fair enough. But I was lucky in that

550
00:33:23,320 --> 00:33:26,280
Speaker 3: my parents recognized that I had a gift. I was

551
00:33:27,000 --> 00:33:29,720
Speaker 3: terrible at school. I was just dreaming about music all

552
00:33:29,760 --> 00:33:34,120
Speaker 3: the time I was. I didn't get any degrees or

553
00:33:34,160 --> 00:33:37,680
Speaker 3: anything at all, but it all worked out for me.

554
00:33:39,240 --> 00:33:41,520
Speaker 1: So as we say in America, you dropped out of

555
00:33:41,600 --> 00:33:43,760
Speaker 1: high school, you'd never finished high school.

556
00:33:43,960 --> 00:33:47,080
Speaker 3: Yeah, I just left the school that I was at

557
00:33:47,120 --> 00:33:50,720
Speaker 3: When I was seventeen. I got a job through my

558
00:33:50,920 --> 00:33:56,760
Speaker 3: parents had some friends that had a gentleman's When I

559
00:33:56,760 --> 00:33:59,600
Speaker 3: say gentlemen, that's putting it. That's a bit of a stretch,

560
00:34:00,040 --> 00:34:05,200
Speaker 3: a gentleman's outfit to shop lear Salford Docks, and I

561
00:34:05,280 --> 00:34:09,480
Speaker 3: worked there until I got the sack. Because I was

562
00:34:09,560 --> 00:34:13,319
Speaker 3: playing with the mockingbirds, leaving work early or coming in

563
00:34:13,440 --> 00:34:19,319
Speaker 3: late the next day, got the sack my manager who

564
00:34:19,320 --> 00:34:23,480
Speaker 3: I had met who actually lived near me. Harvey said,

565
00:34:23,680 --> 00:34:25,360
Speaker 3: you know, this was a good thing. He paid me

566
00:34:25,360 --> 00:34:30,320
Speaker 3: a retailer to write songs basically, and within six months

567
00:34:30,520 --> 00:34:31,239
Speaker 3: I'd had a hit.

568
00:34:31,960 --> 00:34:34,200
Speaker 1: And going back to some of your heres, how'd you

569
00:34:34,200 --> 00:34:35,280
Speaker 1: write listen to people?

570
00:34:37,239 --> 00:34:41,600
Speaker 3: Listen people that? Yeah, I wrote that one on my own.

571
00:34:42,040 --> 00:34:45,960
Speaker 3: I think that was a song that was one of

572
00:34:46,000 --> 00:34:50,319
Speaker 3: the earlier songs that I'd written that wasn't picked up

573
00:34:50,400 --> 00:34:54,200
Speaker 3: by anybody, And I think it was through Harvey having

574
00:34:54,520 --> 00:34:57,919
Speaker 3: his involvement with Herman's Hermits, because it was in a

575
00:34:57,920 --> 00:35:03,480
Speaker 3: film call when the boys meet the else If Memory Serves, and.

576
00:35:04,080 --> 00:35:06,480
Speaker 2: They were looking for songs for it. I know that

577
00:35:06,600 --> 00:35:08,759
Speaker 2: was quite a big hit in America back in the day.

578
00:35:10,239 --> 00:35:15,440
Speaker 1: Youtub great record too. Okay, So you have all these hits,

579
00:35:16,040 --> 00:35:20,319
Speaker 1: then you hit a dry period and you go to

580
00:35:20,400 --> 00:35:23,920
Speaker 1: New York to work with the kings of bubble Gum yea.

581
00:35:24,000 --> 00:35:29,120
Speaker 3: And that seems ridiculous looking back. The idea was that

582
00:35:29,200 --> 00:35:32,320
Speaker 3: they wanted to I think they wanted to move away

583
00:35:32,320 --> 00:35:34,480
Speaker 3: from the bubblegum thing and I wanted to work with

584
00:35:34,560 --> 00:35:40,600
Speaker 3: writers that had more sort of pop credentials if you like.

585
00:35:42,320 --> 00:35:48,000
Speaker 3: And I met them, I liked them, went to New York,

586
00:35:49,000 --> 00:35:52,000
Speaker 3: stayed for about six months there.

587
00:35:52,239 --> 00:35:52,640
Speaker 2: If that.

588
00:35:55,200 --> 00:35:58,759
Speaker 3: Got fed up with it, and I said to them,

589
00:35:59,040 --> 00:36:01,640
Speaker 3: I had a bunch of so as I said, I'm

590
00:36:01,680 --> 00:36:04,440
Speaker 3: involved in a recording studio and with some other guys

591
00:36:04,680 --> 00:36:07,680
Speaker 3: back in the UK, I don't want to stay here

592
00:36:07,719 --> 00:36:09,720
Speaker 3: and record them here. I'm going to take them back

593
00:36:09,960 --> 00:36:14,600
Speaker 3: with me and record them with these friends of mine

594
00:36:14,640 --> 00:36:17,440
Speaker 3: back at the studio that I was a partner in

595
00:36:18,560 --> 00:36:24,360
Speaker 3: back in Stockport, and that was Strawberry Studios. And the

596
00:36:24,400 --> 00:36:26,719
Speaker 3: guys I was want to work with were Kevin and

597
00:36:26,840 --> 00:36:32,839
Speaker 3: Lowell and Eric. So there were several reasons why the

598
00:36:32,840 --> 00:36:35,760
Speaker 3: four of us came together, but one of them certainly

599
00:36:35,840 --> 00:36:39,960
Speaker 3: was this sort of every cloud has a self fanning

600
00:36:40,840 --> 00:36:47,320
Speaker 3: of leaving cousins and cats recording the songs with them,

601
00:36:47,360 --> 00:36:48,839
Speaker 3: with Kevin and Lowell and Eric.

602
00:36:50,400 --> 00:36:52,160
Speaker 1: So when you went to work in New York with

603
00:36:52,239 --> 00:36:55,920
Speaker 1: Kazanets and cats, had you ever been to America before?

604
00:36:57,320 --> 00:36:57,600
Speaker 2: Yes?

605
00:36:58,160 --> 00:37:03,480
Speaker 3: I had, And I'm trying to think what the reason was.

606
00:37:03,560 --> 00:37:08,560
Speaker 3: And I've been there because Herman's Hermit's were did a

607
00:37:08,680 --> 00:37:14,040
Speaker 3: tour with the Hollis in America and I went. I

608
00:37:14,080 --> 00:37:17,000
Speaker 3: went out on that tour with them just to sort

609
00:37:17,000 --> 00:37:19,920
Speaker 3: of basically hang out, which was a great experience.

610
00:37:20,040 --> 00:37:23,319
Speaker 2: I loved it. So I think that was the only

611
00:37:23,360 --> 00:37:26,600
Speaker 2: time I've been before working with them.

612
00:37:27,560 --> 00:37:30,520
Speaker 1: The six months in New York? Were you lonely or

613
00:37:30,640 --> 00:37:32,640
Speaker 1: was it a dream? Here I am in New York

614
00:37:32,719 --> 00:37:33,839
Speaker 1: for six months.

615
00:37:34,400 --> 00:37:38,239
Speaker 3: I think I was more lonely and get me out

616
00:37:38,239 --> 00:37:41,680
Speaker 3: of here. But you know, I did it. I stuck

617
00:37:41,760 --> 00:37:43,960
Speaker 3: with it as much as I could.

618
00:37:44,440 --> 00:37:47,600
Speaker 2: I might. You know, I can't be said it's definitely

619
00:37:47,640 --> 00:37:50,880
Speaker 2: six months. It was around that time anyway, but it was.

620
00:37:51,000 --> 00:37:54,799
Speaker 2: It was quite productive, but I just didn't didn't feel right,

621
00:37:54,840 --> 00:37:57,600
Speaker 2: and I'm glad I didn't. It didn't feel right because.

622
00:37:58,560 --> 00:38:02,080
Speaker 3: You know, that went towards what happened there, went towards

623
00:38:02,600 --> 00:38:03,880
Speaker 3: the formation of TENNESSEEC.

624
00:38:05,640 --> 00:38:09,680
Speaker 1: So tell us how you got involved in Strawberry Studios.

625
00:38:10,719 --> 00:38:15,720
Speaker 3: Strawberry Studios had a different name, and it was owned

626
00:38:15,760 --> 00:38:19,960
Speaker 3: by Eric and a guy called Peter Tatasall, but they

627
00:38:20,000 --> 00:38:25,319
Speaker 3: wanted to expand. I'd met Eric because his band, the

628
00:38:25,400 --> 00:38:27,360
Speaker 3: mind Benders were.

629
00:38:28,640 --> 00:38:29,520
Speaker 2: Their offices.

630
00:38:29,680 --> 00:38:34,239
Speaker 3: Their manager's office was the same office as my, same

631
00:38:34,280 --> 00:38:37,680
Speaker 3: building as my manager Anyway, Eric and I met got

632
00:38:37,719 --> 00:38:42,440
Speaker 3: on very well, and Eric said, we started the studio,

633
00:38:42,480 --> 00:38:44,960
Speaker 3: but we need more. Do you want to become a

634
00:38:45,000 --> 00:38:49,160
Speaker 3: partner in studio? Let's build a proper studio in the

635
00:38:49,239 --> 00:38:51,640
Speaker 3: North of England because at that point anybody wanted to

636
00:38:51,680 --> 00:38:55,480
Speaker 3: make a record would have to go down to London.

637
00:38:55,560 --> 00:38:58,279
Speaker 2: Really, I thought it was a brilliant idea. There were

638
00:38:58,280 --> 00:38:59,839
Speaker 2: so many musicians.

639
00:38:59,320 --> 00:39:02,440
Speaker 3: In in the North of England that would use it,

640
00:39:02,719 --> 00:39:06,759
Speaker 3: we thought. And so that's how I got involved in it.

641
00:39:08,280 --> 00:39:10,600
Speaker 1: And how about the other two members who became members

642
00:39:10,600 --> 00:39:12,440
Speaker 1: of Tendency? See how did they get involved?

643
00:39:13,160 --> 00:39:19,040
Speaker 3: Well, they both Loll and Keaven were at the JLB working,

644
00:39:19,440 --> 00:39:23,359
Speaker 3: you know, rehearsing with their bands, so we knew each

645
00:39:23,360 --> 00:39:27,200
Speaker 3: other from that from that that place.

646
00:39:30,200 --> 00:39:35,760
Speaker 1: So Strawberry Studios. How long before you went to New York?

647
00:39:36,560 --> 00:39:40,400
Speaker 1: Were you working in an owner at Strawberry Studios?

648
00:39:41,680 --> 00:39:44,720
Speaker 3: You mean before we went to New York with with

649
00:39:44,719 --> 00:39:46,879
Speaker 3: with tenn CC, with the original.

650
00:39:46,560 --> 00:39:48,400
Speaker 1: No No No, with ksiands and Cats.

651
00:39:49,480 --> 00:39:54,799
Speaker 2: Oh, probably months, not that long.

652
00:39:55,520 --> 00:39:57,920
Speaker 1: So you come back, you cut all these songs for

653
00:39:58,040 --> 00:40:01,920
Speaker 1: casidds and Cats. What else is going on at Strawberry Studios?

654
00:40:01,920 --> 00:40:03,200
Speaker 1: What's keeping the doors open.

655
00:40:03,480 --> 00:40:05,799
Speaker 3: Okay, Well, we were looking for business, so I was

656
00:40:05,840 --> 00:40:08,400
Speaker 3: happy to that, you know. That was another motive for

657
00:40:08,480 --> 00:40:13,360
Speaker 3: bringing the songs back. We were doing all sorts of stuff.

658
00:40:15,000 --> 00:40:22,839
Speaker 3: We were doing football records, we were doing recording choirs.

659
00:40:23,640 --> 00:40:27,480
Speaker 3: Anybody could come in. It was just any old stuff

660
00:40:27,560 --> 00:40:30,120
Speaker 3: we would do. We would like. We became kind of

661
00:40:30,160 --> 00:40:39,640
Speaker 3: like a session band before we started recording in downtown downtime.

662
00:40:39,160 --> 00:40:40,920
Speaker 2: I should say, not downtown.

663
00:40:42,280 --> 00:40:45,160
Speaker 3: Songs that we'd written just for our own amusement, and

664
00:40:45,200 --> 00:40:50,360
Speaker 3: that became the basis for our very first TURNCC album.

665
00:40:51,320 --> 00:40:55,520
Speaker 3: So we we you know, we didn't. It was almost

666
00:40:55,560 --> 00:40:58,719
Speaker 3: like not a conscious decision to form a band. It

667
00:40:58,800 --> 00:41:00,600
Speaker 3: was just that we were kind of like enjoyed each

668
00:41:00,640 --> 00:41:06,040
Speaker 3: other's company. We made a nice noise together, and we

669
00:41:06,040 --> 00:41:08,040
Speaker 3: were lucky that we had the studio. Not only that,

670
00:41:08,120 --> 00:41:10,400
Speaker 3: but the fact that Eric was an engineer as well.

671
00:41:11,280 --> 00:41:12,960
Speaker 3: So a lot of the time I always think that

672
00:41:14,320 --> 00:41:16,520
Speaker 3: a lot of the records benefited by the fact that

673
00:41:16,560 --> 00:41:18,440
Speaker 3: there were just four of us in the studio, no

674
00:41:18,440 --> 00:41:22,520
Speaker 3: one else's opinion, and no one else to ask, you know,

675
00:41:23,160 --> 00:41:23,880
Speaker 3: to worry about.

676
00:41:31,280 --> 00:41:34,799
Speaker 1: At what point do you start working with Neil Sadaka,

677
00:41:35,000 --> 00:41:35,920
Speaker 1: how does that happen.

678
00:41:37,320 --> 00:41:41,120
Speaker 3: We did two albums with Neil, one pre TENCC and

679
00:41:41,160 --> 00:41:47,960
Speaker 3: one post TENSEC. So Harvey, who was my manager at

680
00:41:47,960 --> 00:41:52,080
Speaker 3: the time, he'd met Neil and knew that Neil was

681
00:41:52,120 --> 00:41:56,239
Speaker 3: going to a place called Badly Variety Club in near

682
00:41:56,320 --> 00:41:59,680
Speaker 3: Leeds in the north of England, and has suggested to

683
00:41:59,800 --> 00:42:04,960
Speaker 3: him that he record with me and keV and Lowell

684
00:42:05,000 --> 00:42:10,520
Speaker 3: and Eric at Strawberry Studios. And the upshot of that

685
00:42:10,800 --> 00:42:16,080
Speaker 3: was that I went to meet Neil at the Queen's

686
00:42:16,080 --> 00:42:20,640
Speaker 3: Hotel I think it was, and he'd agreed to this.

687
00:42:21,320 --> 00:42:24,319
Speaker 3: I think we'd agreed to sort of say, well, let's

688
00:42:24,320 --> 00:42:27,520
Speaker 3: see how it works out, but sort of time wise,

689
00:42:27,560 --> 00:42:29,520
Speaker 3: it worked out for him because Leeds wasn't that far

690
00:42:29,640 --> 00:42:33,919
Speaker 3: from Manchester, so he could come to record during the day.

691
00:42:34,040 --> 00:42:37,719
Speaker 3: So I'll stop or I should say. Anyway, I went there.

692
00:42:37,960 --> 00:42:42,000
Speaker 3: He played a load of songs. I recorded them onto

693
00:42:42,040 --> 00:42:46,800
Speaker 3: a cassette player, took them back to the studio and

694
00:42:46,880 --> 00:42:51,719
Speaker 3: Neil came in and we recorded these songs. We made

695
00:42:51,719 --> 00:42:57,319
Speaker 3: that first album, The Trailer Days are over, in like

696
00:42:57,440 --> 00:43:01,480
Speaker 3: two weeks. It was great and one of the things

697
00:43:01,560 --> 00:43:03,560
Speaker 3: that was great about it was not only it was

698
00:43:05,320 --> 00:43:09,960
Speaker 3: Neil that the consummate professional, but as oppose to these days,

699
00:43:10,400 --> 00:43:14,000
Speaker 3: he would the setup would be that me and Loll

700
00:43:14,239 --> 00:43:19,439
Speaker 3: and Kevin would be in the studio with Neil. Neil

701
00:43:19,440 --> 00:43:21,719
Speaker 3: would play the piano, but he'd also sing the lead

702
00:43:21,800 --> 00:43:27,240
Speaker 3: vocal at the same time. So the record was almost finished.

703
00:43:27,239 --> 00:43:30,160
Speaker 3: I put based on later and we do backing vocals

704
00:43:30,160 --> 00:43:31,760
Speaker 3: and any other overdubs.

705
00:43:32,080 --> 00:43:35,239
Speaker 2: But that was the That was the beauty of it,

706
00:43:35,360 --> 00:43:40,040
Speaker 2: that the fact that you know everything. A lot of

707
00:43:40,040 --> 00:43:42,799
Speaker 2: the recording was made in lack in that one take.

708
00:43:43,520 --> 00:43:47,040
Speaker 1: Great And when was the last time you had contact

709
00:43:47,040 --> 00:43:47,920
Speaker 1: with Neil Sedaka?

710
00:43:49,560 --> 00:43:50,240
Speaker 2: I did.

711
00:43:50,440 --> 00:43:54,880
Speaker 3: It's quite a few years ago, maybe about twelve years ago.

712
00:43:57,440 --> 00:44:00,520
Speaker 3: He came over to do an interview or he was

713
00:44:00,760 --> 00:44:04,719
Speaker 3: here and the idea was that he and I would

714
00:44:04,760 --> 00:44:09,759
Speaker 3: be interviewed together, and it was lovely to see him again.

715
00:44:09,800 --> 00:44:10,359
Speaker 2: I must say.

716
00:44:11,080 --> 00:44:16,560
Speaker 1: Okay, so the first TENCC album, how much of that

717
00:44:16,760 --> 00:44:20,359
Speaker 1: is already recorded before you try to get a record deal.

718
00:44:20,920 --> 00:44:23,319
Speaker 2: This quite a bit of it was recorded because we

719
00:44:23,600 --> 00:44:26,000
Speaker 2: just we were just.

720
00:44:26,239 --> 00:44:30,200
Speaker 3: Doing what as I say, recording in downtown just for

721
00:44:30,280 --> 00:44:34,080
Speaker 3: our own pleasure. But the way that record came about

722
00:44:34,400 --> 00:44:38,640
Speaker 3: was that Eric and I'd written a song called Waterfall,

723
00:44:39,640 --> 00:44:44,400
Speaker 3: and Apple Records, the Beatles label, were quite interested in it,

724
00:44:44,480 --> 00:44:47,239
Speaker 3: and we thought, well, in case they do go for it,

725
00:44:47,239 --> 00:44:50,839
Speaker 3: we should get a B side ready, and because Erict

726
00:44:50,920 --> 00:44:54,120
Speaker 3: in the A side, you know, we said to Kevin Oile,

727
00:44:54,160 --> 00:44:55,520
Speaker 3: you should come up with a B side and that

728
00:44:55,640 --> 00:44:59,120
Speaker 3: B side was a song called Donna. And as we

729
00:44:59,120 --> 00:45:03,000
Speaker 3: were recording that, we thought this, there's something special going

730
00:45:03,000 --> 00:45:06,799
Speaker 3: on here. We sent it to Jonathan King, who ran

731
00:45:07,239 --> 00:45:10,440
Speaker 3: UK Records at the time, and he said, I love it.

732
00:45:10,640 --> 00:45:13,840
Speaker 3: He came up to see us, he said, have you

733
00:45:13,880 --> 00:45:16,360
Speaker 3: got a name? We said no, we weren't. We weren't

734
00:45:16,360 --> 00:45:19,560
Speaker 3: a touring band. He said, I had a dream last night.

735
00:45:19,600 --> 00:45:22,200
Speaker 3: I was standing in front of the Hammersmithhodian and on

736
00:45:22,239 --> 00:45:25,760
Speaker 3: the hoarding it said TENCC the best band in the world.

737
00:45:26,760 --> 00:45:30,520
Speaker 2: We said, okay, that'll do. We didn't even discuss it.

738
00:45:30,560 --> 00:45:33,560
Speaker 3: I don't think I don't remember. There was no alternatives.

739
00:45:33,600 --> 00:45:35,239
Speaker 3: We just thought, yeah, that sounds.

740
00:45:34,920 --> 00:45:42,240
Speaker 1: Good, okay. There was an incredible sense of humor, certainly

741
00:45:42,239 --> 00:45:47,680
Speaker 1: on the first album. Yeah, was was that just your personalities?

742
00:45:47,840 --> 00:45:52,040
Speaker 1: Was that conscious? You know what was going on there?

743
00:45:52,480 --> 00:45:52,680
Speaker 2: Well?

744
00:45:52,719 --> 00:45:55,560
Speaker 3: It was it was unconscious that the whole thing about

745
00:45:55,600 --> 00:46:00,359
Speaker 3: ten CC when we were recording was we just did

746
00:46:00,440 --> 00:46:02,680
Speaker 3: what we wanted to do. We didn't keep an eye

747
00:46:02,680 --> 00:46:06,400
Speaker 3: on the charts, we didn't keep an eye anything. We

748
00:46:06,440 --> 00:46:09,759
Speaker 3: didn't listen to the record company, we didn't listen to anybody.

749
00:46:10,960 --> 00:46:13,680
Speaker 3: We just did what we wanted to do. And I

750
00:46:13,719 --> 00:46:14,840
Speaker 3: think that's why it worked.

751
00:46:16,320 --> 00:46:18,680
Speaker 2: We didn't care. We just wanted to do what we

752
00:46:18,719 --> 00:46:19,239
Speaker 2: wanted to do.

753
00:46:20,080 --> 00:46:24,120
Speaker 1: Okay. But like the opening track, Johnny Don't Do It? Yeah,

754
00:46:24,280 --> 00:46:27,319
Speaker 1: I mean it was like a sad tire of the fifties.

755
00:46:28,200 --> 00:46:29,759
Speaker 2: Yeah, yes, it was.

756
00:46:29,840 --> 00:46:32,920
Speaker 3: Actually it was kind of like a follow up to Donna,

757
00:46:32,960 --> 00:46:37,359
Speaker 3: which was also a kind of do what pastif? And

758
00:46:38,040 --> 00:46:39,960
Speaker 3: I love that track. It's so great. It was a

759
00:46:39,960 --> 00:46:45,560
Speaker 3: complete flop when we put it out as a single,

760
00:46:46,440 --> 00:46:47,360
Speaker 3: but a great track.

761
00:46:47,480 --> 00:46:47,719
Speaker 2: Yeah.

762
00:46:47,760 --> 00:46:50,600
Speaker 3: We were very good at copying other people's styles, whether

763
00:46:50,640 --> 00:46:54,279
Speaker 3: it was that the Beatles or Beach Boys. We were

764
00:46:54,360 --> 00:46:57,400
Speaker 3: very influenced by Well you can hear all our inferences.

765
00:46:57,440 --> 00:47:02,680
Speaker 1: I think they're pretty and sparent okay, and then tell

766
00:47:02,719 --> 00:47:04,640
Speaker 1: us the story of Rubber Bullets.

767
00:47:05,680 --> 00:47:09,360
Speaker 3: So Rubber Bullets was a song that Kevin and Lowell

768
00:47:09,840 --> 00:47:14,640
Speaker 3: had started and I think they were thinking about, you know,

769
00:47:14,800 --> 00:47:18,640
Speaker 3: like James Cagney films like Angels were dirty faces, you know,

770
00:47:19,160 --> 00:47:23,319
Speaker 3: where the priest tries and keeps the boys calm, and

771
00:47:23,360 --> 00:47:29,040
Speaker 3: it's always Irish for some reason. And and they couldn't

772
00:47:29,040 --> 00:47:29,480
Speaker 3: finish it.

773
00:47:29,520 --> 00:47:30,200
Speaker 2: They wanted a.

774
00:47:32,080 --> 00:47:35,640
Speaker 3: They wanted a different a part to it, like a

775
00:47:35,760 --> 00:47:38,120
Speaker 3: kind of a bridge, and they said, do you want

776
00:47:38,120 --> 00:47:40,840
Speaker 3: to to help us finish this song? I loved what

777
00:47:40,880 --> 00:47:44,680
Speaker 3: they'd already done, so I did, and I wrote the

778
00:47:44,719 --> 00:47:48,120
Speaker 3: sort of middle slow section and some of the lyrics

779
00:47:48,120 --> 00:47:51,520
Speaker 3: as well. We've all got balls and brains, but some's

780
00:47:51,560 --> 00:47:53,480
Speaker 3: got balls and chains. I think that was one of

781
00:47:53,600 --> 00:47:54,920
Speaker 3: my contribution lyrically.

782
00:47:56,440 --> 00:48:02,560
Speaker 1: Okay, this record was not a commercial or radio success

783
00:48:02,680 --> 00:48:07,600
Speaker 1: in the US. How successful was it in the UK?

784
00:48:09,840 --> 00:48:12,400
Speaker 3: I don't I can't remember it did. I think it

785
00:48:12,440 --> 00:48:14,680
Speaker 3: did quite well. It did quite well. We got a

786
00:48:14,680 --> 00:48:18,399
Speaker 3: lot of support from people like John Peel. I don't

787
00:48:18,400 --> 00:48:20,040
Speaker 3: know if you're familiar with John.

788
00:48:19,840 --> 00:48:21,560
Speaker 1: Peele, the radio DJ.

789
00:48:21,760 --> 00:48:25,919
Speaker 3: Yeah, radio DJ, and and lots of other people got

790
00:48:25,960 --> 00:48:28,200
Speaker 3: great reviews. I wouldn't say it was like that, but

791
00:48:28,360 --> 00:48:31,600
Speaker 3: it was obviously not a worldwide smash or anything, but

792
00:48:31,719 --> 00:48:37,200
Speaker 3: it certainly established us and established our sort of style

793
00:48:38,520 --> 00:48:42,239
Speaker 3: how we worked not that we were thinking of we

794
00:48:42,400 --> 00:48:45,200
Speaker 3: have a style. I mean, one of the things about

795
00:48:45,200 --> 00:48:50,240
Speaker 3: TENCC was that because we had the principle of whoever's

796
00:48:50,239 --> 00:48:54,760
Speaker 3: best for the job gets the job. We had different

797
00:48:54,800 --> 00:48:58,760
Speaker 3: singers on different tracks, different guitarists on different tracks, whoever

798
00:48:59,400 --> 00:49:01,640
Speaker 3: was the best, as I say, would get the job.

799
00:49:02,280 --> 00:49:07,040
Speaker 3: And actually we had three number one records in the

800
00:49:07,160 --> 00:49:11,360
Speaker 3: UK and they the three of them have different singers

801
00:49:11,360 --> 00:49:15,439
Speaker 3: on Brother Bullets, has Lol on I'm Not in Love,

802
00:49:15,520 --> 00:49:19,200
Speaker 3: has Eric on, and I sang on Treadler Holiday.

803
00:49:21,520 --> 00:49:24,160
Speaker 1: Okay, did you tour on the first album?

804
00:49:25,680 --> 00:49:26,040
Speaker 2: We did?

805
00:49:26,120 --> 00:49:30,080
Speaker 3: The year after or actually the same year it was released,

806
00:49:30,120 --> 00:49:33,880
Speaker 3: we did, and that was a bit of a shock

807
00:49:33,960 --> 00:49:37,960
Speaker 3: as well. The first gig we did, we went because

808
00:49:37,960 --> 00:49:40,800
Speaker 3: we were born in the studio, so we weren't really

809
00:49:40,960 --> 00:49:43,680
Speaker 3: Eric had some experience of being on the road, and

810
00:49:43,760 --> 00:49:45,560
Speaker 3: so did me and Kevin Lob but not to the

811
00:49:45,600 --> 00:49:48,360
Speaker 3: same extent as Eric, because he'd been with Wen and

812
00:49:48,440 --> 00:49:50,320
Speaker 3: Tarn and the mind Benders and the Mine.

813
00:49:50,080 --> 00:49:52,920
Speaker 2: Benders, who were really quite successful.

814
00:49:53,160 --> 00:49:55,000
Speaker 3: But we got went out on the stage and we

815
00:49:55,000 --> 00:49:57,640
Speaker 3: were met with these screaming fans and it was just

816
00:49:57,840 --> 00:50:04,279
Speaker 3: not expected that that would happen, so but quite a

817
00:50:04,400 --> 00:50:05,799
Speaker 3: nice surprise, I have to say.

818
00:50:06,719 --> 00:50:09,560
Speaker 2: But we didn't expect it because we expected people to listen.

819
00:50:12,000 --> 00:50:15,839
Speaker 1: Okay, you go back into the studio to cut a

820
00:50:15,920 --> 00:50:19,480
Speaker 1: second record, you know, did you feel any pressure? What

821
00:50:19,640 --> 00:50:20,640
Speaker 1: was going through your mind?

822
00:50:20,680 --> 00:50:20,879
Speaker 4: Then?

823
00:50:22,560 --> 00:50:27,000
Speaker 3: No pressure, because it made total sense that we do

824
00:50:27,080 --> 00:50:29,680
Speaker 3: another album. We wanted to do another album. We were

825
00:50:29,719 --> 00:50:34,279
Speaker 3: loving working together. You know, the studio was our playground

826
00:50:35,760 --> 00:50:40,080
Speaker 3: and we were doing, you know, being successful with the

827
00:50:40,120 --> 00:50:42,680
Speaker 3: records that we were putting out. We had four Street Shuffle,

828
00:50:43,120 --> 00:50:48,080
Speaker 3: we had other tracks. So we made the sheet Music album,

829
00:50:48,640 --> 00:50:49,239
Speaker 3: which a lot of.

830
00:50:49,200 --> 00:50:53,640
Speaker 2: People consider our best album, and it was all going,

831
00:50:53,920 --> 00:50:55,480
Speaker 2: all going really really well.

832
00:50:57,160 --> 00:51:01,560
Speaker 1: Okay, whilst Reed Shuffle that got radio. We're play on

833
00:51:01,800 --> 00:51:05,360
Speaker 1: FM in the United States. But it's an interesting record

834
00:51:05,600 --> 00:51:08,880
Speaker 1: in that it continues to have a life because of

835
00:51:08,920 --> 00:51:14,239
Speaker 1: all the shenanigans on Wall Street it does. So is

836
00:51:14,280 --> 00:51:16,840
Speaker 1: that something that you feel on your end, that you know,

837
00:51:16,880 --> 00:51:19,160
Speaker 1: people all of a sudden, you know you have a

838
00:51:19,200 --> 00:51:20,800
Speaker 1: y end to leave your market cetera.

839
00:51:23,520 --> 00:51:25,640
Speaker 3: I don't know, but I'm really pleased that it does.

840
00:51:26,440 --> 00:51:31,479
Speaker 3: You know, it does seem to come up whenever there's

841
00:51:31,480 --> 00:51:34,560
Speaker 3: some sort of financial crisis. I'm very happy about that.

842
00:51:36,120 --> 00:51:40,200
Speaker 1: Okay? How about something like the Sacral Iliac? Where does

843
00:51:40,239 --> 00:51:41,000
Speaker 1: that come from?

844
00:51:41,200 --> 00:51:41,600
Speaker 2: Okay?

845
00:51:41,719 --> 00:51:44,200
Speaker 3: That was a song that I wrote with Kevin Godley

846
00:51:45,000 --> 00:51:48,080
Speaker 3: and I'm both here and I have a fear of dancing,

847
00:51:48,880 --> 00:51:52,160
Speaker 3: so we came up with a dance that people who

848
00:51:52,200 --> 00:51:57,320
Speaker 3: can't dance can do or don't do, called the Sacral earlier.

849
00:51:58,239 --> 00:52:03,240
Speaker 2: And it's just an kind of a nonsense song.

850
00:52:03,680 --> 00:52:07,760
Speaker 3: But if I don't really listen to our old stuff

851
00:52:07,760 --> 00:52:10,400
Speaker 3: that much, but if I have listened to it recently

852
00:52:10,440 --> 00:52:12,919
Speaker 3: and I just think it's so clever, I love it.

853
00:52:12,200 --> 00:52:13,640
Speaker 2: It's so weird.

854
00:52:16,040 --> 00:52:18,360
Speaker 1: And then how about the Worst Band of the World.

855
00:52:19,480 --> 00:52:21,640
Speaker 3: That was a song I wrote with Law and Well

856
00:52:21,640 --> 00:52:25,120
Speaker 3: that was based on the what Jonathan King saw on

857
00:52:25,200 --> 00:52:29,399
Speaker 3: the hoarding of the above the Hamma Smith Odeon, which

858
00:52:29,480 --> 00:52:31,360
Speaker 3: was the worst band, which was the best band in

859
00:52:31,360 --> 00:52:34,160
Speaker 3: the world. So we thought, well, we'll be the worst

860
00:52:34,200 --> 00:52:34,960
Speaker 3: band in the world.

861
00:52:37,560 --> 00:52:40,880
Speaker 1: So how does the third album end up being a

862
00:52:41,000 --> 00:52:42,760
Speaker 1: mercury as opposed to UK.

863
00:52:44,840 --> 00:52:48,840
Speaker 3: Because we wanted to go on We wanted to go

864
00:52:48,880 --> 00:52:51,200
Speaker 3: on the road and it was going to cost a

865
00:52:51,200 --> 00:52:53,400
Speaker 3: lot of money, and one of the reasons being that

866
00:52:53,640 --> 00:52:58,040
Speaker 3: we thought the audience should hear us as near as

867
00:52:58,120 --> 00:52:59,360
Speaker 3: dammit like the record.

868
00:52:59,600 --> 00:53:00,560
Speaker 2: So it meant.

869
00:53:01,880 --> 00:53:04,680
Speaker 3: Basically trying to take a recording studio on the road

870
00:53:05,280 --> 00:53:13,080
Speaker 3: to have that quality of sound. And I think Jonathan

871
00:53:13,160 --> 00:53:15,600
Speaker 3: didn't have the money that we needed.

872
00:53:16,600 --> 00:53:19,279
Speaker 2: Our contract had come to an end.

873
00:53:19,440 --> 00:53:22,440
Speaker 3: I think it was I can't remember the actual details

874
00:53:22,440 --> 00:53:27,160
Speaker 3: of the contract, but anyway, we were going to sign

875
00:53:27,200 --> 00:53:32,200
Speaker 3: with Virgin and something happened and we ended up with

876
00:53:32,360 --> 00:53:37,200
Speaker 3: on Phonograph. On Phonograph. Now, whether that's a good thing

877
00:53:37,280 --> 00:53:39,960
Speaker 3: or a bad thing, we'll never know, but I think

878
00:53:39,960 --> 00:53:44,080
Speaker 3: we were pretty upset when I think we've given power

879
00:53:44,080 --> 00:53:47,439
Speaker 3: of attorney to our managers because we were all going

880
00:53:47,480 --> 00:53:55,360
Speaker 3: away and he signed us to Phonogram instead of Virgin.

881
00:53:55,520 --> 00:53:59,680
Speaker 3: I know that Richard Branson was not too pleased with that,

882
00:54:01,360 --> 00:54:05,399
Speaker 3: But however, we did very well with that label, and

883
00:54:05,560 --> 00:54:08,840
Speaker 3: of course you know I'm Not in Love and consequent

884
00:54:09,239 --> 00:54:14,120
Speaker 3: records were released on there very successfully.

885
00:54:14,880 --> 00:54:20,839
Speaker 1: Okay, the original soundtrack was that seen as a concept

886
00:54:20,960 --> 00:54:23,880
Speaker 1: album from the band or was that just a title?

887
00:54:24,600 --> 00:54:27,480
Speaker 3: No, it's it wasn't a concept album. But we always

888
00:54:27,480 --> 00:54:32,600
Speaker 3: thought that our songs were very visual or created. We

889
00:54:32,640 --> 00:54:35,600
Speaker 3: wanted them to create pictures in your mind. Like a

890
00:54:35,640 --> 00:54:38,919
Speaker 3: lot of songwriters do. I'm not saying with the only

891
00:54:38,960 --> 00:54:42,600
Speaker 3: people I've ever thought of that. Yes, So that was

892
00:54:42,640 --> 00:54:46,319
Speaker 3: the idea, and we were very lucky that right from

893
00:54:46,400 --> 00:54:48,879
Speaker 3: the second album we put out sheet music, we'd met

894
00:54:48,960 --> 00:54:54,160
Speaker 3: up with Hypnosis, and this was Hypnosis, the not Merk.

895
00:54:54,400 --> 00:55:00,680
Speaker 3: This is the Hypnosis. The album covered designers who we

896
00:55:00,880 --> 00:55:03,520
Speaker 3: worked with for many years and I'm still working with

897
00:55:04,000 --> 00:55:05,160
Speaker 3: on my solo stuff.

898
00:55:07,640 --> 00:55:10,120
Speaker 2: So they were a perfect match for us.

899
00:55:10,160 --> 00:55:12,960
Speaker 3: And of course this was in the days when artwork

900
00:55:13,719 --> 00:55:16,040
Speaker 3: was really really important, when you could sit down with

901
00:55:16,080 --> 00:55:19,120
Speaker 3: an album and if you were interested, you could see

902
00:55:19,120 --> 00:55:21,600
Speaker 3: who played on this, and who did the who mastered

903
00:55:21,640 --> 00:55:25,640
Speaker 3: the album, who published it, you know, all the details

904
00:55:25,680 --> 00:55:29,120
Speaker 3: that you wouldn't don't necessarily get now unless you would

905
00:55:29,120 --> 00:55:29,880
Speaker 3: go looking for it.

906
00:55:31,880 --> 00:55:36,279
Speaker 1: Working with Hypnosis, to what degree did they come to

907
00:55:36,360 --> 00:55:39,640
Speaker 1: you with ideas and you approved them? What do they

908
00:55:39,680 --> 00:55:44,359
Speaker 1: basically said, you paid us, we'll deliver something that'll be it.

909
00:55:45,360 --> 00:55:48,080
Speaker 3: Well, what used to happen was they they come, they

910
00:55:48,160 --> 00:55:51,920
Speaker 3: come to the studio and they'd come with about maybe

911
00:55:52,000 --> 00:55:55,080
Speaker 3: fifteen different ideas. We'd already sent them the album, so

912
00:55:55,160 --> 00:55:58,320
Speaker 3: they'd already steep themselves in the album.

913
00:55:58,440 --> 00:56:01,000
Speaker 2: So they might pick up on a line of a

914
00:56:01,080 --> 00:56:04,560
Speaker 2: song or just get the.

915
00:56:04,480 --> 00:56:09,000
Speaker 3: General vibe of the album. They come to the studio

916
00:56:09,320 --> 00:56:12,600
Speaker 3: and sort of turn the studio into.

917
00:56:12,480 --> 00:56:13,200
Speaker 2: An art gallery.

918
00:56:13,239 --> 00:56:18,680
Speaker 3: They'd pin pictures of these rough ideas for a sleeve

919
00:56:18,920 --> 00:56:22,160
Speaker 3: on the wall and we would walk round like an exhibition,

920
00:56:22,960 --> 00:56:26,520
Speaker 3: which is brilliant, and we'd reach an agreement and that

921
00:56:26,560 --> 00:56:29,839
Speaker 3: would be it. I mean sometimes that one album that

922
00:56:29,880 --> 00:56:37,200
Speaker 3: we did was Deceptive Benz and it was an title

923
00:56:37,239 --> 00:56:40,520
Speaker 3: I came up with because we had a studio in

924
00:56:40,640 --> 00:56:44,160
Speaker 3: Dorking and I used to drive from London down to

925
00:56:44,280 --> 00:56:47,160
Speaker 3: Dorking and on there was a road sign on one

926
00:56:47,160 --> 00:56:49,920
Speaker 3: of the roads that said Deceptive Benz, which was I

927
00:56:49,960 --> 00:56:53,719
Speaker 3: thought a very subtle thing for the Ministry of Transport

928
00:56:53,760 --> 00:56:57,319
Speaker 3: to right rather than rather than dangerous bends, you know.

929
00:57:00,239 --> 00:57:04,040
Speaker 3: But it struck me because you know, the guitar bends

930
00:57:04,280 --> 00:57:07,400
Speaker 3: DB's are how you measure sound, and it just sounded

931
00:57:07,480 --> 00:57:10,480
Speaker 3: nice that this is interesting. And they came up with

932
00:57:10,520 --> 00:57:15,960
Speaker 3: all different ideas, originally of things happening on roads, which

933
00:57:15,960 --> 00:57:19,160
Speaker 3: we didn't kind of take to. But then they came

934
00:57:19,240 --> 00:57:22,760
Speaker 3: up with the idea of the diver on the front cover.

935
00:57:22,800 --> 00:57:25,960
Speaker 3: If you're familiar with it with the beautiful woman in

936
00:57:26,000 --> 00:57:28,520
Speaker 3: his arms, and of course he was suffering from the

937
00:57:28,560 --> 00:57:35,360
Speaker 3: benz and that is so typical of hypnosis to come

938
00:57:35,440 --> 00:57:37,400
Speaker 3: up with.

939
00:57:36,840 --> 00:57:37,880
Speaker 2: An idea like that.

940
00:57:38,160 --> 00:57:42,960
Speaker 3: Great brilliant genius and I worked with Storm right until

941
00:57:43,040 --> 00:57:48,960
Speaker 3: his passing in two thousand and twelve. I think it

942
00:57:49,120 --> 00:57:52,480
Speaker 3: was he actually did an album cover for me, a

943
00:57:52,480 --> 00:57:56,360
Speaker 3: solo album cover from me called The Love and Work,

944
00:57:56,760 --> 00:57:59,160
Speaker 3: and that was one of the last projects he worked on.

945
00:58:01,200 --> 00:58:06,280
Speaker 1: And going back to the original soundtrack, did everyone agree

946
00:58:06,320 --> 00:58:09,720
Speaker 1: that One Night in Piris would be the opening track,

947
00:58:09,800 --> 00:58:14,400
Speaker 1: because that's a unique, lengthy, almost nine minute opening track.

948
00:58:15,400 --> 00:58:19,919
Speaker 2: Yes, we did, although I think Eric and I did

949
00:58:21,880 --> 00:58:25,200
Speaker 2: edit it somewhat. I think it was going to be longer.

950
00:58:25,240 --> 00:58:27,880
Speaker 3: I think, in fact, that the original idea was for

951
00:58:27,920 --> 00:58:31,280
Speaker 3: it to take up side one of the album. We

952
00:58:31,360 --> 00:58:35,400
Speaker 3: thought that was a little excessive, so I remember we

953
00:58:35,440 --> 00:58:38,520
Speaker 3: did cut it down a bit. But what a wonderful

954
00:58:38,600 --> 00:58:41,800
Speaker 3: piece of work that is. I have to say, a

955
00:58:41,880 --> 00:58:44,720
Speaker 3: Kevin Love genius song.

956
00:58:52,600 --> 00:58:57,600
Speaker 1: So what was the genesis of a Martin love So.

957
00:58:59,200 --> 00:59:03,480
Speaker 3: I always wanted us to write a love song, but

958
00:59:03,560 --> 00:59:07,800
Speaker 3: we've avoided it because it was you know, everybody's writing

959
00:59:07,840 --> 00:59:11,480
Speaker 3: love songs, and but I said we could write a

960
00:59:11,480 --> 00:59:15,640
Speaker 3: great one. Eric came up with the perfect title, which

961
00:59:15,760 --> 00:59:19,919
Speaker 3: was I'm Not in love and you can read into

962
00:59:19,920 --> 00:59:24,320
Speaker 3: that what you will. And the song was written really quickly.

963
00:59:24,360 --> 00:59:27,440
Speaker 3: I had I had this sort of opening, these two

964
00:59:27,560 --> 00:59:31,000
Speaker 3: chords that open open the track. And when the song

965
00:59:31,080 --> 00:59:34,919
Speaker 3: was written really quickly, we recorded it as a kind

966
00:59:34,960 --> 00:59:40,360
Speaker 3: of a Boston over and hated it and we erased it.

967
00:59:42,680 --> 00:59:45,240
Speaker 3: Anything we didn't like we erased. We were worried about

968
00:59:45,320 --> 00:59:47,880
Speaker 3: people getting hold of it. Is it kind of a shame, really,

969
00:59:47,920 --> 00:59:51,000
Speaker 3: it would be nice to hear that person now. But anyway,

970
00:59:53,040 --> 00:59:56,120
Speaker 3: Kevin came up with the the song stuck with us.

971
00:59:56,120 --> 00:59:59,040
Speaker 3: We all liked the song. Kevin came up with this

972
00:59:59,160 --> 01:00:03,520
Speaker 3: idea of a different rhythm and why not do it

973
01:00:03,640 --> 01:00:06,640
Speaker 3: just with voices and nothing else. We thought, wow, this

974
01:00:06,720 --> 01:00:09,760
Speaker 3: is like a revolutionary idea. How the hell are we

975
01:00:09,760 --> 01:00:11,360
Speaker 3: going to do it? Well, what we're going to do

976
01:00:11,440 --> 01:00:14,160
Speaker 3: we need to do a rhythm track. So we made

977
01:00:14,160 --> 01:00:18,320
Speaker 3: a rhythm track really quickly, which was myself, Eric and

978
01:00:18,400 --> 01:00:24,720
Speaker 3: Loll and Kevin. Just like the bass from Sound came

979
01:00:24,760 --> 01:00:25,080
Speaker 3: from a.

980
01:00:26,560 --> 01:00:27,120
Speaker 2: Mini move.

981
01:00:27,720 --> 01:00:33,280
Speaker 3: I played electro rhythm guitar and Eric played keyboard, and

982
01:00:33,360 --> 01:00:36,760
Speaker 3: even at that point we thought there's something happening here.

983
01:00:37,280 --> 01:00:41,000
Speaker 3: But we pursued the idea of the of doing it

984
01:00:41,040 --> 01:00:44,480
Speaker 3: all with voices, the idea being we do all the voices,

985
01:00:44,520 --> 01:00:46,680
Speaker 3: but we needed a backing track as a sort of

986
01:00:46,760 --> 01:00:49,360
Speaker 3: guide for us to sing to. Then we take the

987
01:00:49,400 --> 01:00:53,520
Speaker 3: backing track off, but everything sounded so wonderful as we were.

988
01:00:54,800 --> 01:00:56,240
Speaker 2: Everything every idea we.

989
01:00:56,280 --> 01:00:59,880
Speaker 3: Had worked, and that meant we had a great you know,

990
01:01:00,120 --> 01:01:04,600
Speaker 3: something good was going on. And when we finished it,

991
01:01:06,360 --> 01:01:08,440
Speaker 3: we just used to play it back to ourselves, turn

992
01:01:08,520 --> 01:01:10,680
Speaker 3: the lights off in the control room, lind the floor

993
01:01:10,720 --> 01:01:13,360
Speaker 3: and listen to it and tell each other how great

994
01:01:13,400 --> 01:01:17,320
Speaker 3: we were. But nobody ever said this could be a

995
01:01:17,360 --> 01:01:20,120
Speaker 3: massive hit. We just thought this is like a fantastic

996
01:01:20,200 --> 01:01:23,400
Speaker 3: album track. But then when we played it to everybody

997
01:01:23,400 --> 01:01:25,120
Speaker 3: else and everyone said.

998
01:01:25,200 --> 01:01:30,120
Speaker 1: This could be big, and you know, there's a video

999
01:01:30,280 --> 01:01:34,160
Speaker 1: online about leayering the vocals, how did you ultimately do it?

1000
01:01:35,440 --> 01:01:39,520
Speaker 3: Okay, Well, we made loops of every note that we

1001
01:01:39,600 --> 01:01:44,000
Speaker 3: needed that we flew back into the multi track and

1002
01:01:44,160 --> 01:01:50,200
Speaker 3: ended up using the mixing desk as an instrument, so

1003
01:01:52,040 --> 01:01:55,320
Speaker 3: we didn't have all that we needed to mix all

1004
01:01:55,320 --> 01:02:01,080
Speaker 3: these I think they're about thirteen tracks of with different notes.

1005
01:02:01,760 --> 01:02:03,880
Speaker 3: We needed to mix them down to a stereo pair,

1006
01:02:05,000 --> 01:02:10,480
Speaker 3: so we would all man like two faders each and

1007
01:02:10,720 --> 01:02:15,280
Speaker 3: move them around as the track was playing to get

1008
01:02:15,320 --> 01:02:21,160
Speaker 3: this final stereo pair mix of the backing vocals. So

1009
01:02:21,600 --> 01:02:26,320
Speaker 3: I don't think I'd ever been done before. What was

1010
01:02:26,360 --> 01:02:30,240
Speaker 3: great about it was that as we were doing it,

1011
01:02:30,280 --> 01:02:33,000
Speaker 3: we didn't know what we were going to get because

1012
01:02:33,640 --> 01:02:36,200
Speaker 3: it was just building up and building up and building up.

1013
01:02:36,680 --> 01:02:38,720
Speaker 3: Of course, nowadays you wouldn't do that. You'd just go

1014
01:02:38,800 --> 01:02:42,600
Speaker 3: to some sort of sampler and just just one keyboard

1015
01:02:42,640 --> 01:02:45,240
Speaker 3: player could do the whole thing, but it wouldn't sound

1016
01:02:45,640 --> 01:02:50,120
Speaker 3: like ours because ours was kind of flawed in a

1017
01:02:50,160 --> 01:02:53,400
Speaker 3: way in that you know, things aren't perfectly in tune,

1018
01:02:53,680 --> 01:02:58,440
Speaker 3: notes of chorusing against one another. But it was fantastic

1019
01:02:58,520 --> 01:03:03,919
Speaker 3: to be a part of creating something unique.

1020
01:03:03,840 --> 01:03:07,680
Speaker 2: I think, and.

1021
01:03:07,680 --> 01:03:13,520
Speaker 1: It becomes a gigeantic hit. What was that like from

1022
01:03:13,600 --> 01:03:14,960
Speaker 1: the other side of the fence.

1023
01:03:15,880 --> 01:03:21,440
Speaker 3: It took us by surprise, I think, but meant that

1024
01:03:21,560 --> 01:03:28,560
Speaker 3: we could. It elevated the band's position all around the world,

1025
01:03:29,840 --> 01:03:30,840
Speaker 3: no doubt about it.

1026
01:03:32,840 --> 01:03:34,800
Speaker 1: So did you feel a pressure to come up with

1027
01:03:34,840 --> 01:03:38,400
Speaker 1: something equally successful on how Dare You? The follow up album.

1028
01:03:40,760 --> 01:03:45,520
Speaker 3: I don't think we felt pressure, but there was a

1029
01:03:45,560 --> 01:03:50,280
Speaker 3: feeling now that, particularly from Kevin and Lowell, that we

1030
01:03:50,520 --> 01:03:55,280
Speaker 3: kind of they kind of done it. They were and

1031
01:03:55,400 --> 01:03:58,240
Speaker 3: I sense this in it when I if I listened

1032
01:03:58,240 --> 01:04:02,000
Speaker 3: to that album, a little cloud gathering on the horizon

1033
01:04:03,240 --> 01:04:06,240
Speaker 3: that they weren't entirely happy.

1034
01:04:07,080 --> 01:04:11,000
Speaker 2: They I think, gotten fed up with.

1035
01:04:11,040 --> 01:04:19,840
Speaker 3: The writing, then recording, then rehearsing, and then touring and

1036
01:04:19,920 --> 01:04:22,840
Speaker 3: all the other stuff that goes with it. I think

1037
01:04:22,880 --> 01:04:25,360
Speaker 3: things have got a bit predictable for them, whereas for

1038
01:04:25,440 --> 01:04:28,480
Speaker 3: me and Eric, this was exactly what we wanted, but

1039
01:04:28,560 --> 01:04:32,280
Speaker 3: they wanted also. They had come up with this invention

1040
01:04:32,480 --> 01:04:35,840
Speaker 3: called a gizmo, which was an attachment that went under

1041
01:04:35,880 --> 01:04:41,200
Speaker 3: the guitar, and the mate started making an album that

1042
01:04:41,360 --> 01:04:45,560
Speaker 3: came out eventually called Consequences, which was three albums set.

1043
01:04:46,680 --> 01:04:49,960
Speaker 3: And during the recording of that, we were saying to them,

1044
01:04:50,920 --> 01:04:54,200
Speaker 3: you know, we should really get back to the record company,

1045
01:04:54,240 --> 01:04:57,120
Speaker 3: want something, and we should get back to being tense

1046
01:04:57,360 --> 01:05:00,200
Speaker 3: s And they said, we want to finish this, and

1047
01:05:00,880 --> 01:05:04,600
Speaker 3: you know it could have been handled better. I mean,

1048
01:05:04,680 --> 01:05:07,880
Speaker 3: Kevin and I spoke about this quite a lot. What

1049
01:05:07,880 --> 01:05:10,600
Speaker 3: we should how we should have handled it. Whereas they

1050
01:05:10,600 --> 01:05:14,440
Speaker 3: could have finished that we would have survived taking time off. Anyway,

1051
01:05:14,760 --> 01:05:17,720
Speaker 3: it didn't happen, and the up shot of it was

1052
01:05:17,720 --> 01:05:22,520
Speaker 3: that Kevin and All left the band, which still upsets

1053
01:05:22,600 --> 01:05:25,000
Speaker 3: me to this day that they didn't. I think we

1054
01:05:25,080 --> 01:05:29,680
Speaker 3: could have gone on to do amazing things.

1055
01:05:30,760 --> 01:05:33,400
Speaker 1: But on the album before they leave, tell us about

1056
01:05:33,520 --> 01:05:34,400
Speaker 1: art for art sake?

1057
01:05:35,400 --> 01:05:37,439
Speaker 3: Well, that was something that my dad used to say

1058
01:05:37,440 --> 01:05:41,040
Speaker 3: to me. Now, my dad, it's quite a cynical phrase.

1059
01:05:41,120 --> 01:05:43,840
Speaker 3: Art for art sake, money for God's sake, But he

1060
01:05:43,920 --> 01:05:46,920
Speaker 3: wasn't a cynical man, but he loved that phrase because

1061
01:05:46,920 --> 01:05:51,960
Speaker 3: it was funny. So we had that title and Eric

1062
01:05:52,000 --> 01:05:56,000
Speaker 3: and I just wrote the song. I mean, another song

1063
01:05:56,040 --> 01:06:01,080
Speaker 3: that was written really really quickly. I can't tell you

1064
01:06:01,120 --> 01:06:03,240
Speaker 3: that much about the actual writer. I don't remember that

1065
01:06:03,360 --> 01:06:06,040
Speaker 3: much about the writing of the song. But you know,

1066
01:06:06,840 --> 01:06:09,400
Speaker 3: if you have a great title, it's you know, it's

1067
01:06:09,440 --> 01:06:11,960
Speaker 3: a big it's a major thing.

1068
01:06:13,960 --> 01:06:17,960
Speaker 1: So tell us about the gizmo and the two of

1069
01:06:18,000 --> 01:06:21,040
Speaker 1: them really believed in it. Were you skeptical from day one?

1070
01:06:21,720 --> 01:06:26,760
Speaker 3: I wasn't skeptical, but the problem with it was it

1071
01:06:26,880 --> 01:06:32,440
Speaker 3: was very temperamental, as an instrument. It was an attachment

1072
01:06:32,480 --> 01:06:36,360
Speaker 3: for the guitar that contained six wheels and these little

1073
01:06:36,400 --> 01:06:41,000
Speaker 3: pads that you'd pressed down and the revolving wheel that

1074
01:06:41,040 --> 01:06:43,280
Speaker 3: had a kind of serrated edge would hit the string,

1075
01:06:43,920 --> 01:06:46,080
Speaker 3: so you get the effect of almost like a violin,

1076
01:06:46,840 --> 01:06:51,200
Speaker 3: and you could play the six pads and it would

1077
01:06:51,200 --> 01:06:54,320
Speaker 3: create this really great noise. But I always said that,

1078
01:06:54,760 --> 01:06:58,120
Speaker 3: you know, it sounds great, it's got a million pounds

1079
01:06:58,200 --> 01:07:01,960
Speaker 3: studio attached to it, so, you know, because it needs

1080
01:07:02,000 --> 01:07:06,720
Speaker 3: to be multi tracked to make it sound effective. But

1081
01:07:06,800 --> 01:07:10,360
Speaker 3: it was an interesting sound and they really believed in it.

1082
01:07:10,400 --> 01:07:15,080
Speaker 3: But I think that was, you know, a contributing factor

1083
01:07:15,120 --> 01:07:21,480
Speaker 3: to them leaving the band pursuing this thing that actually suffered.

1084
01:07:21,640 --> 01:07:25,000
Speaker 3: I think, however good or bad it was, you know,

1085
01:07:25,040 --> 01:07:27,320
Speaker 3: the age of the synthesizer was coming in, and I

1086
01:07:27,360 --> 01:07:33,440
Speaker 3: think that would have really made it, you know, not

1087
01:07:34,240 --> 01:07:36,640
Speaker 3: a commercial possibility.

1088
01:07:38,520 --> 01:07:41,240
Speaker 1: So the two of you saw Gern you and Eric.

1089
01:07:41,640 --> 01:07:44,640
Speaker 1: You have the album Deceptive Bens and you have another

1090
01:07:44,760 --> 01:07:47,120
Speaker 1: Gigea to get with the Things we Do for Love?

1091
01:07:47,840 --> 01:07:49,200
Speaker 1: Where does that come from?

1092
01:07:50,040 --> 01:07:50,280
Speaker 2: Well?

1093
01:07:51,840 --> 01:07:57,160
Speaker 3: I had this sort of these intro chords and Eric

1094
01:07:57,600 --> 01:08:00,120
Speaker 3: we started writing the song. I remember Eric wanted the

1095
01:08:00,160 --> 01:08:03,880
Speaker 3: right song about suicide, said, this song is not this

1096
01:08:03,960 --> 01:08:04,880
Speaker 3: isn't a suicide.

1097
01:08:04,880 --> 01:08:08,680
Speaker 2: This is kind of like a more definitely more upbeat.

1098
01:08:08,920 --> 01:08:12,960
Speaker 3: And to give him credit, came up with the title

1099
01:08:13,200 --> 01:08:14,920
Speaker 3: you know Things We Do for love it. It's a

1100
01:08:14,960 --> 01:08:20,880
Speaker 3: great title. And we recorded it. We wrote it, recorded it,

1101
01:08:21,360 --> 01:08:26,400
Speaker 3: and we knew we had something special. In fact, I

1102
01:08:26,400 --> 01:08:29,840
Speaker 3: remember at one point during the recording of it, Eric

1103
01:08:29,920 --> 01:08:32,320
Speaker 3: was doing some backing vocals in it. He added one

1104
01:08:32,400 --> 01:08:36,400
Speaker 3: harmony that suddenly said I said to him, I said,

1105
01:08:36,400 --> 01:08:38,559
Speaker 3: this is a hit now that it was like a

1106
01:08:38,600 --> 01:08:42,559
Speaker 3: tipping point where if you're in the studio where something

1107
01:08:42,720 --> 01:08:49,360
Speaker 3: happens and you go, wow, this is so good. And yep,

1108
01:08:49,439 --> 01:08:53,280
Speaker 3: that was a big hit for us in America and

1109
01:08:54,040 --> 01:08:55,439
Speaker 3: a lot of places around the world.

1110
01:08:57,280 --> 01:08:59,640
Speaker 1: Tell me about the middle where it's you have the

1111
01:08:59,720 --> 01:09:03,000
Speaker 1: scene song you talked about the rain and the show.

1112
01:09:04,640 --> 01:09:07,519
Speaker 3: Yeah, you you wrote about that once and you actually

1113
01:09:07,560 --> 01:09:10,720
Speaker 3: picked up on the you said like the sort of

1114
01:09:10,800 --> 01:09:14,640
Speaker 3: sixth chord about it. I'll give Eric the credit for

1115
01:09:14,680 --> 01:09:19,280
Speaker 3: that part of the song. It's kind of sing song.

1116
01:09:20,120 --> 01:09:22,600
Speaker 3: I did sort of question it in my head a

1117
01:09:22,640 --> 01:09:26,720
Speaker 3: bit at the time, I remember, but hey, it worked.

1118
01:09:28,800 --> 01:09:31,960
Speaker 1: Okay, the opening song, good Morning Judge.

1119
01:09:32,520 --> 01:09:36,559
Speaker 3: Yeah, that was that came out of a I think

1120
01:09:36,600 --> 01:09:39,360
Speaker 3: I wrote you about this out of a conversation as

1121
01:09:39,400 --> 01:09:45,160
Speaker 3: having my dad about people being institutionalized who spent they

1122
01:09:45,600 --> 01:09:48,439
Speaker 3: continually going back to prison, and I was talking to

1123
01:09:48,520 --> 01:09:50,360
Speaker 3: Eric about it and we thought that this is a

1124
01:09:51,000 --> 01:09:53,880
Speaker 3: this is a this is a good idea.

1125
01:09:53,560 --> 01:09:55,479
Speaker 2: For a song, and I knew about that.

1126
01:09:55,840 --> 01:09:59,840
Speaker 3: There was there was a joke that I'd heard and

1127
01:10:00,080 --> 01:10:05,040
Speaker 3: the punchline was and good morning judge, and that was all.

1128
01:10:05,160 --> 01:10:07,280
Speaker 3: I don't remember the joke very well at all. I

1129
01:10:07,640 --> 01:10:09,760
Speaker 3: can't remember it at all what the actual joke was.

1130
01:10:10,360 --> 01:10:16,240
Speaker 3: But the combination of having that title and and the

1131
01:10:16,280 --> 01:10:19,200
Speaker 3: general concept of it as someone who always gets into

1132
01:10:19,240 --> 01:10:22,320
Speaker 3: trouble and there's a there's also kind of like a

1133
01:10:22,360 --> 01:10:25,240
Speaker 3: wats a boy to do kind of element to it

1134
01:10:25,320 --> 01:10:30,120
Speaker 3: as well. And yeah, that was a good good record

1135
01:10:30,160 --> 01:10:32,200
Speaker 3: for us in the UK certainly.

1136
01:10:33,680 --> 01:10:36,680
Speaker 1: Okay, And the second side ends with an eleven and

1137
01:10:36,680 --> 01:10:40,160
Speaker 1: a half minute track, Feel the Benefit. Once you get hooked,

1138
01:10:40,160 --> 01:10:42,360
Speaker 1: you can you almost can't dig it off. You have

1139
01:10:42,400 --> 01:10:45,240
Speaker 1: to plead again and again. Tell me about feel the Benefit.

1140
01:10:45,600 --> 01:10:46,000
Speaker 2: Okay.

1141
01:10:46,280 --> 01:10:49,040
Speaker 3: So when I was a little boy, I used to

1142
01:10:49,080 --> 01:10:51,439
Speaker 3: come in from the cold. My mum would say to me,

1143
01:10:52,080 --> 01:10:54,160
Speaker 3: take your coat off, so that when you go out

1144
01:10:54,160 --> 01:10:58,160
Speaker 3: again you'll feel the benefit. So that there's a there's

1145
01:10:58,200 --> 01:11:01,759
Speaker 3: a title. That's where the title came from. And after

1146
01:11:03,000 --> 01:11:06,360
Speaker 3: we'd done most of the recording on Deceptive Bends, we

1147
01:11:06,479 --> 01:11:10,800
Speaker 3: had quite a few odds and ends musical odds and

1148
01:11:10,920 --> 01:11:15,240
Speaker 3: ends hanging around that we thought were really good. For

1149
01:11:15,280 --> 01:11:18,679
Speaker 3: some reason, we didn't want to make them into songs

1150
01:11:18,680 --> 01:11:21,360
Speaker 3: on their own, and we decided to put them together

1151
01:11:22,600 --> 01:11:25,920
Speaker 3: and it kind of worked. Now had this sort of

1152
01:11:26,000 --> 01:11:32,000
Speaker 3: John Lennony type intro guitar intro like I sort of

1153
01:11:32,000 --> 01:11:36,040
Speaker 3: Dear Prudence type thing that I loved, and they just

1154
01:11:36,240 --> 01:11:39,439
Speaker 3: think we just put the things together and it worked

1155
01:11:39,520 --> 01:11:42,799
Speaker 3: because it's not a matter of just putting things together,

1156
01:11:43,040 --> 01:11:46,400
Speaker 3: you know. There has to be some sort of sense

1157
01:11:46,520 --> 01:11:49,479
Speaker 3: to it. Why it works, I don't know, but it does.

1158
01:11:51,240 --> 01:11:54,479
Speaker 1: Okay, you have a huge success. The next album, Bloody

1159
01:11:54,520 --> 01:11:59,880
Speaker 1: Tourists Off has another record that has continued to live

1160
01:12:00,200 --> 01:12:03,280
Speaker 1: and tell us about the creation of dreadlock Holiday.

1161
01:12:04,760 --> 01:12:06,600
Speaker 2: Okay, dread Loote Holiday.

1162
01:12:07,760 --> 01:12:11,760
Speaker 3: Was written at my house after both Eric and I

1163
01:12:11,840 --> 01:12:15,920
Speaker 3: have been on holiday. He'd been to Barbados and I'd

1164
01:12:15,960 --> 01:12:20,960
Speaker 3: been to Jamaica. We started talking about our experiences. I

1165
01:12:21,040 --> 01:12:23,160
Speaker 3: was sat down with the guitar and I started playing

1166
01:12:23,240 --> 01:12:26,720
Speaker 3: the opening chords to it and in this sort of

1167
01:12:27,200 --> 01:12:32,200
Speaker 3: reggae sort of rhythm, and so we talked about our

1168
01:12:32,280 --> 01:12:36,800
Speaker 3: various experiences. And then I remember that I'd been had

1169
01:12:36,840 --> 01:12:39,400
Speaker 3: a conversation with someone at the hotel I was staying

1170
01:12:39,400 --> 01:12:43,519
Speaker 3: at him in Jamaica, and we were talking about sports.

1171
01:12:43,560 --> 01:12:47,400
Speaker 3: I've talked about Manchester United and I said, what about cricket?

1172
01:12:47,400 --> 01:12:48,719
Speaker 2: Do you do you like cricket?

1173
01:12:48,760 --> 01:12:51,960
Speaker 3: He said no. I said, I'm surprised. He said, I

1174
01:12:52,040 --> 01:12:57,400
Speaker 3: love it. Gave me the line, and so like a

1175
01:12:57,439 --> 01:12:59,559
Speaker 3: couple of months later, when Eric and I were talking

1176
01:12:59,560 --> 01:13:05,080
Speaker 3: about the you know, various different experiences while we were

1177
01:13:05,120 --> 01:13:09,639
Speaker 3: both on holiday, this line popped into my head right

1178
01:13:09,720 --> 01:13:10,679
Speaker 3: to the right spot.

1179
01:13:11,400 --> 01:13:12,240
Speaker 2: It was just perfect.

1180
01:13:14,920 --> 01:13:20,639
Speaker 1: Okay, from the outside, it looked like ten CC went

1181
01:13:20,680 --> 01:13:24,679
Speaker 1: into a Denu mall. It was started feeding there. Certainly

1182
01:13:24,680 --> 01:13:28,320
Speaker 1: weren't more successful radio tracks. What was it like on

1183
01:13:28,360 --> 01:13:31,800
Speaker 1: the inside? After bloody tourists not good?

1184
01:13:34,920 --> 01:13:36,800
Speaker 2: Eric had had an accident.

1185
01:13:38,040 --> 01:13:42,000
Speaker 3: That really affected him quite badly, so he was out

1186
01:13:42,000 --> 01:13:46,160
Speaker 3: of action for a year. I started doing other projects,

1187
01:13:48,240 --> 01:13:52,120
Speaker 3: and when we came back together again, it really wasn't

1188
01:13:52,600 --> 01:13:59,200
Speaker 3: the same. We did an album that Andrew Gold was

1189
01:13:59,240 --> 01:14:03,080
Speaker 3: involved with, and I loved working with him and continued

1190
01:14:03,120 --> 01:14:05,479
Speaker 3: to work with him after Erica and I split up,

1191
01:14:07,000 --> 01:14:09,759
Speaker 3: but there was a general sort of malaise where everything

1192
01:14:09,800 --> 01:14:13,839
Speaker 3: it was like our time has passed. And I remember

1193
01:14:13,880 --> 01:14:19,960
Speaker 3: going into the record company with an album. I can't

1194
01:14:20,040 --> 01:14:24,479
Speaker 3: remember which album it was. I'm playing it to the

1195
01:14:24,880 --> 01:14:27,920
Speaker 3: head of the label and you know, I don't know

1196
01:14:27,920 --> 01:14:30,400
Speaker 3: if you know this, but when you're playing something to somebody,

1197
01:14:32,080 --> 01:14:35,760
Speaker 3: if it's something wrong with it, it's glaringly obvious that

1198
01:14:35,960 --> 01:14:40,759
Speaker 3: this isn't very good. And I started sort of feeling

1199
01:14:40,800 --> 01:14:43,040
Speaker 3: I could tell by his expression as well it wasn't

1200
01:14:43,360 --> 01:14:47,400
Speaker 3: It was obvious. And then he said I want to

1201
01:14:47,400 --> 01:14:51,599
Speaker 3: play something. He didn't say anything else other than that,

1202
01:14:51,800 --> 01:14:57,760
Speaker 3: and he played a private investigation by Direstrates, which.

1203
01:14:57,800 --> 01:14:59,440
Speaker 2: Was it was phenomenal.

1204
01:15:00,520 --> 01:15:04,200
Speaker 3: So I think we got the point that we'd better

1205
01:15:04,280 --> 01:15:07,599
Speaker 3: do better, but it didn't happen. I mean, Eric and

1206
01:15:07,640 --> 01:15:13,000
Speaker 3: I had a very very strange relationship. We did another

1207
01:15:13,120 --> 01:15:15,840
Speaker 3: album with Gary Katz in New York that was a

1208
01:15:15,840 --> 01:15:20,080
Speaker 3: complete disaster, even though we had some really wonderful musicians

1209
01:15:20,120 --> 01:15:25,280
Speaker 3: on it, so it was enough we did. There were

1210
01:15:25,360 --> 01:15:29,200
Speaker 3: some attempts at reunions that was just horrible and hard

1211
01:15:29,200 --> 01:15:34,559
Speaker 3: had enough. There were other attempts to sort of revive us.

1212
01:15:35,960 --> 01:15:39,000
Speaker 3: Our American record company suggested that we work with the

1213
01:15:39,560 --> 01:15:42,599
Speaker 3: late Andrew Gold, which I thought was an absolutely brilliant

1214
01:15:42,600 --> 01:15:45,000
Speaker 3: idea because I was a massive fan of his anyway,

1215
01:15:45,800 --> 01:15:49,200
Speaker 3: and to give him credit, we did record and he

1216
01:15:49,360 --> 01:15:53,439
Speaker 3: co produced and co wrote three tracks on our ten

1217
01:15:53,479 --> 01:15:57,760
Speaker 3: out of Ten album and all those those three albums,

1218
01:15:57,800 --> 01:16:02,040
Speaker 3: those three tracks were actually he chosen as singles, which

1219
01:16:02,360 --> 01:16:06,120
Speaker 3: you know, you know, says that they were worthy of that.

1220
01:16:06,280 --> 01:16:07,400
Speaker 2: So that was a good move.

1221
01:16:08,120 --> 01:16:11,120
Speaker 3: And after that album, I'd had enough with Eric, and

1222
01:16:12,560 --> 01:16:16,400
Speaker 3: the first person I contacted was was Andrew and said,

1223
01:16:16,400 --> 01:16:18,760
Speaker 3: I got a little studio at my house. Do you

1224
01:16:18,760 --> 01:16:20,720
Speaker 3: want to come over for a couple of weeks and

1225
01:16:21,160 --> 01:16:24,439
Speaker 3: just let's mess around there. He stayed for about yeah,

1226
01:16:24,600 --> 01:16:27,639
Speaker 3: stay for two months, I think, and we just had

1227
01:16:27,640 --> 01:16:30,840
Speaker 3: a great time together, really clicked musically and on a

1228
01:16:30,880 --> 01:16:36,360
Speaker 3: personal level as well. And you know, to the time

1229
01:16:36,600 --> 01:16:42,200
Speaker 3: is untimely passing. We remained in contact with each other.

1230
01:16:42,520 --> 01:16:45,320
Speaker 3: We had joined the eighties, we had a band called Wax.

1231
01:16:46,320 --> 01:16:50,440
Speaker 3: We had a couple of hits, not in America unfortunately,

1232
01:16:50,560 --> 01:16:54,360
Speaker 3: but we did, you know, quite well. And we just

1233
01:16:54,439 --> 01:16:57,360
Speaker 3: loved working together. And I actually think some of the

1234
01:16:57,400 --> 01:17:00,000
Speaker 3: stuff that we did together as some of the best

1235
01:17:00,080 --> 01:17:01,960
Speaker 3: stuff I've ever been involved with.

1236
01:17:04,320 --> 01:17:06,120
Speaker 1: So what was it like working with the edge was

1237
01:17:06,160 --> 01:17:09,360
Speaker 1: opposed to the previous people you worked with.

1238
01:17:10,760 --> 01:17:15,439
Speaker 3: He was very, very creative, He could play everything. He

1239
01:17:15,640 --> 01:17:19,800
Speaker 3: was very good at everything he did musically, I have

1240
01:17:19,920 --> 01:17:22,600
Speaker 3: to say, and he was just a delightful person to

1241
01:17:22,640 --> 01:17:27,360
Speaker 3: be with. It was funny, you know, we kind of

1242
01:17:27,439 --> 01:17:31,280
Speaker 3: we loved each other. It was wonderful. I'd say, one

1243
01:17:31,320 --> 01:17:40,439
Speaker 3: of my happiest collaborations and friendships. And I you know,

1244
01:17:40,600 --> 01:17:45,000
Speaker 3: I miss him very much to this day. So we

1245
01:17:45,040 --> 01:17:48,280
Speaker 3: recorded three albums together. He did have a terrible problem

1246
01:17:48,320 --> 01:17:52,639
Speaker 3: with flying, he didn't like that, and eventually we did

1247
01:17:52,720 --> 01:17:56,280
Speaker 3: record After the third album, we actually both agreed that

1248
01:17:56,800 --> 01:18:00,160
Speaker 3: if we didn't have any sort of significant success, we

1249
01:18:00,200 --> 01:18:03,759
Speaker 3: would call it a day as far as being having

1250
01:18:03,760 --> 01:18:07,719
Speaker 3: a band together, but that we would carry on working,

1251
01:18:08,520 --> 01:18:10,320
Speaker 3: you know, writing together, which we did do.

1252
01:18:12,360 --> 01:18:15,600
Speaker 1: So what's it like having this amazing success as you

1253
01:18:15,720 --> 01:18:20,600
Speaker 1: talk about the record exec playing you dire streets and

1254
01:18:21,640 --> 01:18:25,120
Speaker 1: you know you're doing what you do. You're as talented

1255
01:18:25,160 --> 01:18:27,679
Speaker 1: as you ever was, but the game keeps changing. What's

1256
01:18:27,680 --> 01:18:29,240
Speaker 1: it like to be in that position?

1257
01:18:30,040 --> 01:18:33,000
Speaker 3: Well, we knew the game had changed actually before that,

1258
01:18:33,120 --> 01:18:37,519
Speaker 3: because with the the punk here that came in and

1259
01:18:37,640 --> 01:18:40,880
Speaker 3: suddenly sort of whatever you like to call it art

1260
01:18:41,080 --> 01:18:46,200
Speaker 3: rock or prog rock or whatever, was suddenly very out

1261
01:18:46,240 --> 01:18:52,600
Speaker 3: of favor, and you know, everything got very very punkish.

1262
01:18:52,640 --> 01:18:55,479
Speaker 3: So I did sense that there was a big shift

1263
01:18:55,560 --> 01:18:57,960
Speaker 3: in what was going on in music at that time.

1264
01:18:59,080 --> 01:19:03,439
Speaker 3: But I've always welt that one should just keep doing

1265
01:19:03,479 --> 01:19:07,160
Speaker 3: what it's in your you know, do what's in your heart, right,

1266
01:19:07,200 --> 01:19:11,240
Speaker 3: what's in your heart, and things will turn out okay.

1267
01:19:11,400 --> 01:19:14,240
Speaker 3: You know, I feel in a way that I've had

1268
01:19:14,400 --> 01:19:19,599
Speaker 3: sort of three important careers in my life. What one

1269
01:19:19,680 --> 01:19:23,240
Speaker 3: is a writer in the sixties ten SC Definitely I'm

1270
01:19:23,280 --> 01:19:26,679
Speaker 3: working with Andrew. So now I'm in a place where,

1271
01:19:27,400 --> 01:19:29,960
Speaker 3: you know, I have the TENSEC Band, which is a

1272
01:19:30,000 --> 01:19:30,799
Speaker 3: touring band.

1273
01:19:31,280 --> 01:19:33,479
Speaker 2: I don't record under that name.

1274
01:19:33,600 --> 01:19:35,960
Speaker 3: It doesn't feel right to me, but it feels certainly

1275
01:19:36,000 --> 01:19:38,479
Speaker 3: feels right to be able to go out and tour

1276
01:19:38,520 --> 01:19:42,280
Speaker 3: the band and I make my own solo albums, which

1277
01:19:42,320 --> 01:19:45,599
Speaker 3: I love doing, and there that's one of my you know,

1278
01:19:46,040 --> 01:19:48,719
Speaker 3: the great pleasure to me and something that I'll always

1279
01:19:48,760 --> 01:19:49,439
Speaker 3: continue to do.

1280
01:19:51,920 --> 01:19:55,040
Speaker 1: So how much do you work when you're on the road.

1281
01:19:55,120 --> 01:19:58,919
Speaker 1: You're working, but in terms of creating, going in the studio,

1282
01:20:00,120 --> 01:20:03,599
Speaker 1: laying down your stuff, how motivated and how often are

1283
01:20:03,600 --> 01:20:04,120
Speaker 1: you working?

1284
01:20:04,160 --> 01:20:07,120
Speaker 2: Now? Well, I get bored very easily.

1285
01:20:07,280 --> 01:20:11,000
Speaker 3: So I love my family and I love my work,

1286
01:20:11,160 --> 01:20:15,840
Speaker 3: so I'm always doing something I can't sort of keep still.

1287
01:20:15,840 --> 01:20:19,920
Speaker 3: In fact, I did when I did this record that

1288
01:20:19,960 --> 01:20:22,160
Speaker 3: I spoke about before with Brian May.

1289
01:20:23,479 --> 01:20:25,400
Speaker 2: Last year. At the beginning of last year.

1290
01:20:27,360 --> 01:20:30,360
Speaker 3: I started writing some songs after that and suddenly found

1291
01:20:30,360 --> 01:20:34,519
Speaker 3: myself writing another you know, solo album which I've just

1292
01:20:34,600 --> 01:20:39,120
Speaker 3: finished that's coming out in June. So there's there's always something,

1293
01:20:39,960 --> 01:20:43,800
Speaker 3: There's always something to do. And there's a couple of

1294
01:20:43,880 --> 01:20:47,160
Speaker 3: other projects which are we'll see if they work out

1295
01:20:47,280 --> 01:20:51,360
Speaker 3: at the moment. But I guess I'm of an age

1296
01:20:51,400 --> 01:20:54,720
Speaker 3: now where you know, you really should just be doing

1297
01:20:54,720 --> 01:20:56,760
Speaker 3: what you like, you love to do, and I'm lucky

1298
01:20:56,840 --> 01:20:57,880
Speaker 3: enough to be able to do it.

1299
01:20:59,080 --> 01:21:01,639
Speaker 1: And how did you end up going out with Ringo Store?

1300
01:21:04,120 --> 01:21:10,639
Speaker 3: I got a uh my, our agent got a message

1301
01:21:10,640 --> 01:21:17,840
Speaker 3: from David Hart, who's their producer on the you know,

1302
01:21:17,920 --> 01:21:24,920
Speaker 3: the show's producer, and they said they sell up a

1303
01:21:24,960 --> 01:21:27,400
Speaker 3: meeting and I walked into the office and they asked

1304
01:21:27,400 --> 01:21:30,400
Speaker 3: me the stupid question, would you like to join a

1305
01:21:30,439 --> 01:21:35,479
Speaker 3: band with Ringo Starr? And ye know, what's the boy

1306
01:21:35,560 --> 01:21:39,400
Speaker 3: to do? I said, definitely, and and that's how it

1307
01:21:39,439 --> 01:21:40,000
Speaker 3: came about.

1308
01:21:40,040 --> 01:21:41,320
Speaker 2: I think that.

1309
01:21:42,240 --> 01:21:45,760
Speaker 3: I'm trying to think Richard, Richard I can't remember his

1310
01:21:45,840 --> 01:21:48,559
Speaker 3: second name, who was with the bass player was taking

1311
01:21:48,640 --> 01:21:53,880
Speaker 3: time out. They wanted somebody else, and you know, I'm

1312
01:21:53,920 --> 01:21:59,200
Speaker 3: actually not quite sure how they landed on me. But anyway,

1313
01:21:59,800 --> 01:22:01,920
Speaker 3: I was absolutely delighted to do it. I had a

1314
01:22:01,920 --> 01:22:06,240
Speaker 3: wonderful time. I really enjoyed it very much, and I

1315
01:22:06,240 --> 01:22:08,120
Speaker 3: would have done another tour. I was asked to do

1316
01:22:08,160 --> 01:22:10,800
Speaker 3: another tour, but I had tendency c commitments, so I

1317
01:22:10,800 --> 01:22:11,439
Speaker 3: couldn't do it.

1318
01:22:12,600 --> 01:22:14,960
Speaker 1: So what was it like being out with Ringo in

1319
01:22:15,000 --> 01:22:17,400
Speaker 1: his mad cap room?

1320
01:22:18,439 --> 01:22:23,000
Speaker 3: It was fantastic, as you can imagine, slightly surreal. I

1321
01:22:23,040 --> 01:22:26,160
Speaker 3: actually wrote a song about it called standing next to

1322
01:22:26,200 --> 01:22:29,200
Speaker 3: Me because I'd be playing away and then you know,

1323
01:22:29,240 --> 01:22:33,320
Speaker 3: with Ringo wasn't playing the drums. It would be standing

1324
01:22:33,360 --> 01:22:35,439
Speaker 3: to my right and I'd sort of look around and go,

1325
01:22:35,920 --> 01:22:42,120
Speaker 3: blood the hell, it's Ringo stuff. It was fantastic because,

1326
01:22:42,760 --> 01:22:46,600
Speaker 3: as I said before, the Beatles were my biggest influence,

1327
01:22:47,000 --> 01:22:51,760
Speaker 3: and obviously he's a major part of that. And I

1328
01:22:51,760 --> 01:22:53,760
Speaker 3: wrote a song about it, be called standing next to

1329
01:22:53,800 --> 01:22:59,040
Speaker 3: Me that describes my time on the road with Ringo.

1330
01:22:59,080 --> 01:23:03,000
Speaker 3: It was great, not only just Ringo but Steve Lucafer,

1331
01:23:03,240 --> 01:23:08,800
Speaker 3: Greg Berson, I, Greg Rowley, Colin Hay, just lovely guys.

1332
01:23:08,320 --> 01:23:11,120
Speaker 2: It was brilliant. I really loved it.

1333
01:23:12,760 --> 01:23:15,519
Speaker 1: Well bloody how it's Graham Goldman. I listened to those

1334
01:23:15,600 --> 01:23:20,519
Speaker 1: records incessantly, dedicated fans saw you live. Graham. Thanks so

1335
01:23:20,640 --> 01:23:23,160
Speaker 1: much for taking the time to talk to my audience.

1336
01:23:23,840 --> 01:23:26,280
Speaker 2: My pleasure, Bob Oh, it's nice to talk to you.

1337
01:23:27,040 --> 01:23:30,640
Speaker 1: And don't forget you can go see ten CC and

1338
01:23:30,800 --> 01:23:35,439
Speaker 1: hear all these hits this summer in the US until

1339
01:23:35,520 --> 01:23:38,240
Speaker 1: next time. This is Bob left Sex