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Speaker 1: Hi, I'm Molly John Fast and this is Fast Politics,

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Speaker 1: where we discussed the top political headlines with some.

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Speaker 2: Of today's best minds.

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Speaker 1: And Donald Trump's rally crowd went silent when he confused

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Speaker 1: Obama and President Biden. Yet again. We have such an

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Speaker 1: interesting show today. Former Rolling Stone editor Noah Shackman joins

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Speaker 1: us to talk about prescription drug use in the Trump

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Speaker 1: White House.

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Speaker 2: Then we'll talk to the host.

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Speaker 1: Of the five to four podcast, Michael Leroff and Peter

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Speaker 1: sham Shurry about the Supreme Court's latest descent into maga.

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Speaker 1: But first we have the host of the Enemy's List,

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Speaker 1: the Lincoln Project's own Rick Wilson. Welcome back, too, Fast Politics,

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Speaker 1: my friend and yours, Rick.

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Speaker 2: Wilson, Mollie Jong Fast.

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Speaker 3: As always, I am delighted to join you on the

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Speaker 3: stage of history.

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Speaker 1: Exactly on the stage of history which will absorb us

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Speaker 1: like everyone else. This is such an interesting week because

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Speaker 1: I feel like this is a week that the Biden

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Speaker 1: administration did a lot of politically useful things that are

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Speaker 1: like election focused. And that's not a criticism, it's actually

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Speaker 1: a compliment because of the enormous stakes of this election.

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Speaker 1: But you and I talked on the phone a little

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Speaker 1: bit earlier, and the thing we wanted to start by

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Speaker 1: talking about was the hottest crack addict we know, Hunter Biden.

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Speaker 3: Look, I have to tell you the fact that he

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Speaker 3: finally sat down for their behind closed doors deposition, wiped

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Speaker 3: the floor and knocked, as we say in the South,

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Speaker 3: there Dickson the dirt.

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Speaker 2: I've never heard that.

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Speaker 3: He absolutely shamed and humiliated the moron crew of comer

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Speaker 3: Jordan Gates, et cetera, et cetera. He just absolutely kicked

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Speaker 3: their asses up one side and down the other. And

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Speaker 3: his opening statement had a combination of very very well written,

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Speaker 3: clear denunciation of their tactics and also absolutely dismantled the

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Speaker 3: four witnesses that they have in this thing as criminals, frauds,

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Speaker 3: people who are in jail for fraud, or Russian intelligence assets.

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Speaker 3: It was masterful, and there's a reason they wanted to

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Speaker 3: do this behind closed doors because they were afraid something

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Speaker 3: like this could happen.

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Speaker 1: I thought they wanted to do it behind closed doors

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Speaker 1: because they hoped that they could then spin it.

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Speaker 3: They did. But the fact that the deal was a

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Speaker 3: release of the transcript, that was absolutely a masterstroke in

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Speaker 3: this thing that prevented them from you know, just going

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Speaker 3: on on Sean Hannity and saying, well, we found another

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Speaker 3: seven hundred witnesses at Maurisma who said that we're perls

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Speaker 3: of cash were taken to Delaware and look, this impeachment

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Speaker 3: is dead. It is dead. It has no political viability.

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Speaker 3: I spoke to a source last night who has some

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Speaker 3: visibility into the thinking of the leadership left of it.

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Speaker 3: They want this over, they want this over.

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Speaker 2: Is that Colber's service dog, I mean, who is that?

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Speaker 3: No, well, it's somebody with visibility into what's going on.

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Speaker 1: Into the dusty attic that is James Comer's brain.

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Speaker 3: Into the flaming pit of wild stupidity that is James Commer. Yes,

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Speaker 3: but at the leadership level there are even people who

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Speaker 3: you would sink are very maga, who are now like

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Speaker 3: this has to stop. This is crazy.

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Speaker 1: The only person I think who was like a little

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Speaker 1: excited about it was maga Mad Gates.

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Speaker 3: I'd be real careful, like talking about other people's addictions.

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Speaker 2: That's sadd And you're not the only person who said

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Speaker 2: that Hunter Biden said that to him.

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Speaker 3: He did.

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Speaker 1: Indeed, I'm trying to find where he said to mad

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Speaker 1: Gates that if I wouldn't be arguing about substance abuse

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Speaker 1: if I were you.

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Speaker 2: Pretty incredible.

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Speaker 1: But also there was Eric Swallwell saying, did you get

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Speaker 1: two billion dollar from the Saudi government?

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Speaker 2: I know, I know, I know.

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Speaker 3: Listen, you know I got to say. I think the

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Speaker 3: two people that have legitimately the most sort of like, yeah,

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Speaker 3: there's this old phrase called berzuker Gang, which meant like

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Speaker 3: the fury of the vikings, right, the two guys with

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Speaker 3: the Berserker Gang, with the real excitement here, they love

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Speaker 3: to go oh fuck me, no, in fact, fuck y'all

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Speaker 3: to the magas are Moskowitz and Swallow, and they just

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Speaker 3: they've become masters at inverting the bullshit gotcha game that

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Speaker 3: has been the Fox News producer's greatest ally for the

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Speaker 3: last ten years. They don't want to do this anymore

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Speaker 3: on the Republican side in public because they know now

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Speaker 3: there are people who are going to clown them with

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Speaker 3: better and more photogenic moments.

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Speaker 2: Producer Jesse has come along and saved usk.

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Speaker 1: Mister Gates, were you on drugs when you were on

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Speaker 1: the Barisma board?

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Speaker 2: The witness otherwise known as Hunter Biden.

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Speaker 1: Mister Gates, look me in the eye, you really think

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Speaker 1: that's appropriate to ask me, mister Gates, absolutely the witness

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Speaker 1: of all the people sitting around this table, do you

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Speaker 1: think that's appropriate to ask me Matt Gates?

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Speaker 2: Unbelievable?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, listen, Matt Or as they call him now in Florida,

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Speaker 3: Governor Gates, who is running for who? No, No, he's

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Speaker 3: running for governor in Florida. He keeps denying it, but

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Speaker 3: then he comes to Tallahassee and sits down and has

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Speaker 3: meetings with all of the political operatives in the state

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Speaker 3: that are ready to go for his run for governor.

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Speaker 3: This is a guy who has never spent a day

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Speaker 3: of his life worried about consequences because Daddy would always

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Speaker 3: spend the money, write the check, get him out of trouble.

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Speaker 3: A lot of the crap that they've laid on Hunter

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Speaker 3: Biden and look, Molly, you can speak to this, but

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Speaker 3: a lot of the stuff about Hunter he was taking

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Speaker 3: responsibility for his addiction is something these fuckers would never

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Speaker 3: do in a million years. And a lot of them

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Speaker 3: have their own suite of addictions, including the ko Kayim.

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Speaker 3: And I mean, I would say sex addiction is probably

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Speaker 3: more prevalent on Capitol Hill than on a per capita

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Speaker 3: basis in any place I've ever been.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, this is the thing.

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Speaker 1: They have a very just completely fucked up view of

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Speaker 1: how this is going to go. I also think what's

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Speaker 1: interesting to me, and we talked about this before, and

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Speaker 1: I want to talk about the Biden border trip now,

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Speaker 1: is that what they're doing in the White House is

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Speaker 1: And I know because I was.

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Speaker 2: I was also there this week and we were talking

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Speaker 2: about it.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, drop that a bad Yeah, baby, I didn't get any.

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Speaker 2: Of the cookies.

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Speaker 1: They have these cookies with a seal, and I forgot

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Speaker 1: to get the fucking you can ask for.

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Speaker 2: The cook and they have em.

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Speaker 1: And m's I'm aworried. The two things they said. They're

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Speaker 1: really trying to do this thing where they fight back.

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Speaker 1: So Biden goes on the same day that Trump goes

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Speaker 1: to the border. Biden goes the border, and Biden says, Okay,

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Speaker 1: you want to make immigration this issue, let's go. You know,

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Speaker 1: he's really calling their bluff, right. They have this very

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Speaker 1: very right leaning bill gives them everything they want, can

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Speaker 1: close the border, can do this, can do that, and

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Speaker 1: and I mean the speech that Biden gave was like,

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Speaker 1: you know, they can come to the table anytime they want.

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Speaker 1: I mean, it's annoying on some level because as someone

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Speaker 1: who doesn't necessarily think that a guy who is not

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Speaker 1: the president should be setting the tone, it's annoying, but

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Speaker 1: it's also brilliant discuss.

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Speaker 3: Look, Joe Biden has recognized that you can take the

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Speaker 3: strong argument on immigration, okay, which is we're going to

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Speaker 3: secure the border. We're going to appropriately and humanly manage

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Speaker 3: our border. We're going to toughen up border patrol, We're

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Speaker 3: going to give ice and border patrol resources that they

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Speaker 3: need to do their jobs, and that Donald Trump is

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Speaker 3: the one guy who is stopping that. The White House

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Speaker 3: realized that, the Biden campaign realized that, Joe Biden himself

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Speaker 3: realized that, and now they're putting it back on Donald Trump.

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Speaker 3: They're saying, Okay, y know, if this is such a crisis,

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Speaker 3: if the fentanyl is rolling in by the dump truck load,

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Speaker 3: and it's an immediate crisis. If the child smugglers are

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Speaker 3: bringing the babies across the border for bad people, then

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Speaker 3: it's an immediate crisis. If there's one bajillion, trillion, gazillion

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Speaker 3: immigrants crossing over every day with their with their with

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Speaker 3: their strange foreign languages and their delicious ethnic foods. We

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Speaker 3: have to stop it.

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Speaker 2: If that's the case, language is that no one's ever

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Speaker 2: heard languages no one speaks.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, in Donald Trump's case, one of those languages would

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Speaker 3: be English. But this idea that they've inverted the dynamic

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Speaker 3: of power and the strong side of the argument, assertive

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Speaker 3: side of the argument. You know, Biden is now the

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Speaker 3: guy who wants to close the border. He wants to

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Speaker 3: enforce the border, and this popular Fox illusion of Biden

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Speaker 3: opened the border for the brown caravans. It's all a lie.

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Speaker 3: It is about as truthful as the Hunter Biden evidence,

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Speaker 3: which was to say, not truthful at all. And so

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Speaker 3: now Biden's like, Okay, Donald, come to the table, Matto

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Speaker 3: and Manno, If the dividing line in this race becomes

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Speaker 3: Joe Biden saying we should secure the border and Donald

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Speaker 3: Trump saying we should build concentration camps before we deport them,

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Speaker 3: Joe Biden's gonna win on that issue.

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Speaker 1: And I think that's the cow goes Sean Hannity, perhaps

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Speaker 1: you'll remember him, said, Biden visiting the border is a

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Speaker 1: cynical sit political stunt, and beyond disgraceful. Joe Biden should

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Speaker 1: know that the only people allowed to visit the border

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Speaker 1: for sick political stunts are Republicans. He then, in the

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Speaker 1: same brats plugs his upcoming show with Trump to be

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Speaker 1: aired from the border.

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Speaker 3: I will never get over, you know, seeing Lindsey Graham

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Speaker 3: and Tim Scott and Ted Cruz and all these other

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Speaker 3: guys down there wearing their wish dot Com, fake LBB

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Speaker 3: bulletproof best plate carriers, and they're wrap around Oakley's thinking

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Speaker 3: that there's some sort of like costplay special operator bullshit.

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Speaker 3: All of them go down to the border at the

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Speaker 3: drop of the hat, stare across the rio grad and say,

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Speaker 3: dear God, the care that it sweeps the horizon, and

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Speaker 3: it's all people with not a single blue eyed soul

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Speaker 3: among them. Oh my god, the drama, the drama that

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Speaker 3: these assholes indulge themselves in about the border. It's only

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Speaker 3: increased because, like heroin addicts, they're chasing the dragon of

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Speaker 3: that first flush of how great it was, you know

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Speaker 3: when they first started going down there. Now they have

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Speaker 3: to do the barbed wire barricades and the floating razor

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Speaker 3: balls and all that crap in the river and they've

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Speaker 3: become part of the Fox News production cycle. They've become

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Speaker 3: part of the scare tactic cycle, over and over and

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Speaker 3: over again.

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Speaker 1: We are a country of immigrants, right, I mean, the

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Speaker 1: whole premise of this fucking country is that we all

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Speaker 1: became here and then killed all the indigenous people because

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Speaker 1: this was the dream of America. So the idea, and again,

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Speaker 1: like the other thing which I think even Democrats have

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Speaker 1: gotten a little bit removed frum is like immigrants are

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Speaker 1: good for the economy, Like you have a tight line market,

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Speaker 1: you need these people.

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Speaker 3: Let me just say this not super widely known, but

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Speaker 3: my family is in agriculture, citrus, soy hogs, peanuts, corn.

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Speaker 3: Florida agriculture right now is in a desperate collapse because

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Speaker 3: you know what, nobody's here anymore. They can't get workers.

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Speaker 3: They can't get people to come and do the work.

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Speaker 3: And so the idea of oh, well, well, of course

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Speaker 3: these immigrants are taking this backbreaking minimum wage labor away

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Speaker 3: from deserving white men.

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Speaker 2: People who don't want it.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, guess what, you can't get people right now in Florida.

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Speaker 3: You can't get him in California and Arizona. We are

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Speaker 3: killing a giant sector of our economy, the ag sector

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Speaker 3: in particular is suffering. But you know, this is also

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Speaker 3: why states are like, we've got to get those thirteen

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Speaker 3: year olds working again. My god, the moral failing of

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Speaker 3: this country where the kids can't go down the urine

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Speaker 3: for the coal mine.

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Speaker 1: Right exactly, But it is, I mean, that is is

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Speaker 1: a really good point. And like I yesterday, I was

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Speaker 1: talking to a guy who works at pro publica does

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Speaker 1: very cool private sure partnerships with local news, and he

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Speaker 1: was talking about they have been writing about the farmers

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Speaker 1: in Wisconsin. Right there are a ton of undocumented people

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Speaker 1: working in farms in Wisconsin, and a lot of them

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Speaker 1: don't speak English.

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Speaker 2: What is interesting on the ground is he told.

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Speaker 1: Me that people who are employing these people know that

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Speaker 1: they need that.

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Speaker 3: They absolutely understand it, They absolutely know it, and they

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Speaker 3: don't care. Right, they don't care.

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Speaker 2: It is an.

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Speaker 3: Astounding and bitter reality. This is a country that its

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Speaker 3: largest trading partner is south of the border. We have

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Speaker 3: a crossflow of work and workers and products back and forth.

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Speaker 3: And this idea that the border is wide open is

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Speaker 3: of course a lie. But we need in this country

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Speaker 3: for the first time in forty five years to assis

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Speaker 3: establish a legitimate, straight up guess worker system where they

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Speaker 3: pay taxes in the system. And the fact that Donald

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Speaker 3: Trump is the one holding the border open right now,

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Speaker 3: all the negative consequences of having a border that is

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Speaker 3: not being enforced right now, the whole fantasy of that

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Speaker 3: they're smuggling hundreds of Al Qaeda in every day, and

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Speaker 3: you know that five million children are trafficked over the

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Speaker 3: border every half hour, and all this other garbage. There

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Speaker 3: are bad things that happen at the border. There are

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Speaker 3: legitimate concerns at the border, but they are not at

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Speaker 3: the scale that you would think they are on Fox News.

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Speaker 3: And the downsides of the idea of putting an iron

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Speaker 3: wall across the border is that we're going to collapse

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Speaker 3: several sectors of our economy pretty dramatically if we had

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Speaker 3: the fantasy wall of Donald Trump from Baja to Brownsville.

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Speaker 2: The idea that somehow building an enormous.

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Speaker 1: Wall with I mean, the fact that we're even talking

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Speaker 1: about this eight years later, right is such proof that

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Speaker 1: everything has gotten so stupid.

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Speaker 2: Right, there's no world in which an.

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Speaker 1: Enormous concrete wall in a porous border it's going to

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Speaker 1: do anything but enriched the construction companies, which is why

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Speaker 1: it's such a great trumpy scam.

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Speaker 2: Right.

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Speaker 3: Look, I mean Steve Bannon and his people. They wanted

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Speaker 3: to take it private and build their a private.

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Speaker 1: Wall, yes, where you have to pay to look at it.

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Speaker 1: The whole thing is preposterous.

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Speaker 3: It's absurdity.

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Speaker 1: But speaking of preposterous, there's one last thing we have

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Speaker 1: to talk about, which is Donald Trump a master at

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Speaker 1: punting when it comes to his legal challenges.

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Speaker 3: Discuss Well, Look, the court as I call it now,

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Speaker 3: the Red Court. They gave Donald Trump two great gifts.

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Speaker 3: They gave him time, and they gave him this comfort. Basically,

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Speaker 3: the time that they gave him to push this thing

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Speaker 3: into July is the clock running on Merrick Garland. Hey,

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Speaker 3: how you'll like Merrick Garland. Now by the way out there,

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Speaker 3: I'm just saying, but Merrick Garland is going to pick

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Speaker 3: up the phone to Jack Smith and say, hey, look

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Speaker 3: you did a great job. Clock ran out where it goes.

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Speaker 3: You got to wrap it up. He's the Republican nominee,

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Speaker 3: and that was the thing they gave Trump.

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Speaker 2: Is by that.

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Speaker 3: Point the convention won't matter. He'll have the delegates and

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Speaker 3: they're going to do it by acclamation. Sooner than later

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Speaker 3: he'll be the Republican nominee, and that is going to

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Speaker 3: buy him a hall pass on this and the Court.

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Speaker 3: For all that people say, oh, John Roberts is an

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Speaker 3: institutionalist and he was to protect you. Guess what, John Roberts.

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Speaker 3: There are three people on the Court who are the

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Speaker 3: products of the MAGA era. Okay, Gorsich, Cavanaugh and Comy Barrett.

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Speaker 3: They are for all Donald Trump makes jokes about it,

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Speaker 3: they are his people. To whatever degree Alito and Thomas

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Speaker 3: represented an earlier time, they are both now obviously locked

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Speaker 3: in on a partisan frame where they don't care. I

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Speaker 3: think Clarence Thomas now is even though his wife is

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Speaker 3: a part of the case and he should recuse himself.

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Speaker 3: He's basically an extend the little finger to the country,

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Speaker 3: and Roberts doesn't even have the moral courage to tell

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Speaker 3: Thomas he should recuse. I'm not going to give John

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Speaker 3: Roberts a lot more grace and running room here because

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Speaker 3: this was a decision. Look, I was around for Bush v.

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Speaker 3: Gore and they took it up in three days.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, we're gonna not talk about bushfe Gore. Thank you.

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Speaker 2: Rick Wilson any time. Did you know?

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Speaker 1: Rick Wilson and I are bringing together some friends for

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Speaker 1: a general election kickoff party at City Winery in New

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Speaker 1: York on March sixth. We're going to be chatting right

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Speaker 1: after Super Tuesday about what's going on, and it is

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Speaker 1: going to probably be the one fun night for the

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Speaker 1: next eighty days.

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Speaker 2: If you're in.

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Speaker 1: The New York area, please come by and join us.

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Speaker 1: You can go to City Winery's website and grab a ticket.

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Speaker 1: And Noah Shackman is the former editor in chief of Rolings.

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Speaker 1: Don't welcome back, frend boss, colleague, Noah Schapman.

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Speaker 2: Yo, my mind, let's talk about drugs.

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Speaker 4: Great, one of my favorite.

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Speaker 2: You have a huge scoop that has just dropped today.

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Speaker 1: It's Monday, or at least it'll be Monday and you're

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Speaker 1: listening to this, or maybe it will be Tuesday, Wednesday, whatever.

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Speaker 1: It centers on the Trump White House and all the

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Speaker 1: stuff that everyone was taking.

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Speaker 2: So talk us through exactly how this went down.

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Speaker 4: Sure, so, about six weeks ago there was a report

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Speaker 4: by the Defense Departments Inspector General that laid up all

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Speaker 4: these irregularities in the way that they were handing out

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Speaker 4: prescription medications, but it was all kind of vague and

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Speaker 4: it was all kind of weird. And addedly, white houses

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Speaker 4: have been for a long time handing out prescription medications

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Speaker 4: on flights to make sure that you know, ambient, to

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Speaker 4: make sure people, you know, sleep on an overseas fly

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Speaker 4: or something like that. But what my colleague and I

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Speaker 4: discovered is freaking crazy, which is and there's a couple

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Speaker 4: of different parts to it. Let's go over the first

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Speaker 4: part first, which is just wide spread abuse of a

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Speaker 4: very powerful stimulant called provigel or medopinos, the generic name.

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Speaker 4: It's a drug that the military pilots us to keep

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Speaker 4: awake when they're on like long, long, long, long missions.

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Speaker 4: But in the Trump White House it was being passed

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Speaker 4: around like old school speed. And in fact, when we

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Speaker 4: talked to Trump White House staffers, they talked about a

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Speaker 4: White House that was quote a wash in speed. And

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Speaker 4: if you're taking the speed before or any of these uppers,

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Speaker 4: they do not exactly produce clear thinking over the long haul.

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Speaker 4: They do not exactly produce rational thought in the long term,

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Speaker 4: even if they're good at keeping you awake in the

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Speaker 4: short term. So that's the first of several things which felt.

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Speaker 1: We don't know who was taking it though, right, it

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Speaker 1: could be anyone in that White House.

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Speaker 2: It wasn't clear who.

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Speaker 4: Well put it to you this way, there was thousands

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Speaker 4: and thousands and thousands of pills ordered over a very

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Speaker 4: short time, like a few months, so it not only

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Speaker 4: literally could have been anybody, it might have literally been everybody,

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Speaker 4: if you know what I mean.

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Speaker 2: I mean, how does this compare to normal white houses?

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Speaker 4: There's really no comparison. So let's just say that my

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Speaker 4: colleagues Win Soups saying, and I talked to like everybody involved,

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Speaker 4: including people that were involved in other white houses. And

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Speaker 4: while they would occasionally hand out this drug if you know,

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Speaker 4: there was like an overnight flight and someone had trouble

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Speaker 4: sleeping and need to be up for a meeting with

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Speaker 4: a world leader the next day, they never ever used

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Speaker 4: it like the Trump white House did, which was you know,

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Speaker 4: speech writers would use it to jam out speeches, comms,

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Speaker 4: people would use it to spin the media. Lawyers or

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Speaker 4: I'm not sure about lawyers, but people responding to Robert

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Speaker 4: Mueller's probe would use it to you know, try to insist,

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Speaker 4: you know, called with new es for the why they

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Speaker 4: totally weren't in bed with Russia, like it was really

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Speaker 4: a pretty widespread usage.

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Speaker 2: Is this all Ronnie Jackson? I mean, where does this originated?

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Speaker 4: Right? So, Ronnie Jackson, who was the head of the

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Speaker 4: White House medical Unit and physician to the President under

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Speaker 4: both Obama and Trump, this all seems to circle back

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Speaker 4: on him. Now Ronnie Jackson is.

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Speaker 1: He's now a member of Congress, which is the most

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Speaker 1: amazing part of this whole story.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, which is wild. He was not the planet's most

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Speaker 4: respected doctor. So for Corple, the Pentagon did a different

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Speaker 4: report about his behavior when he was Obama's doctor, and

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Speaker 4: he seem to have a habit of getting wasted and

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Speaker 4: banging on female subordinates hotel room doors. They couldn't verify

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Speaker 4: whether he had gotten wasted and crashed a carl. There

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Speaker 4: was that allegation. And this is my favorite part is

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Speaker 4: that they interviewed sixty of his current and former subordinates

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Speaker 4: and fifty six saw him being abusive or had him

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Speaker 4: being abusive to them. So he's not the best and

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Speaker 4: so a lot of these problems were traced back to him.

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Speaker 4: That said. Jackson was out of the Trump White House

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Speaker 4: by twenty nintheen and even though his subordinates, his minions

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Speaker 4: were kind of running the shop. These problems persist in

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Speaker 4: the Trump White House right to the very end.

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Speaker 1: Right so when he left there was another doctor who

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Speaker 1: came from the same scool of doctor Fieldgod Madison Well.

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Speaker 4: I would say that Jackson had both installed his minions

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Speaker 4: and key spots throughout the administration on the medical side,

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Speaker 4: and that the culture that he had promoted, what one

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Speaker 4: source told us was a kind of wild West in

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Speaker 4: which any one quote got anything they wanted. That that

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Speaker 4: culture took a long time to unwind, and really took

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Speaker 4: at least through the Trump administration through the end of it.

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Speaker 2: What else is sort of shocking.

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Speaker 4: The medofinal the military grade speed was only the beginning of.

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Speaker 4: Like I said, there was a culture of anything, anytime,

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Speaker 4: anywhere you need. And one of the drugs that people

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Speaker 4: seem to need the most was xanax, which is an

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Speaker 4: anti anxiety medication. Why is it and it's also a

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Speaker 4: very powerful sedative you.

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Speaker 2: Know need I'm a Jewish woman. You don't need to

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Speaker 2: tell me what xanax's now.

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Speaker 1: That said, I have been sober since I was nineteen,

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Speaker 1: but you know, you explaining xanax to me like, Okay, what.

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Speaker 2: You take to come down from cocaine anyway?

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Speaker 4: Continue, That's like explaining like astronomy on ride.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 4: So, not only was the Trump White House an incredibly

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Speaker 4: stressful place to work, but if you're already hopped up

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Speaker 4: on uppers, you need something to be able to sleep

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Speaker 4: in a couple hours through the night. And so there

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Speaker 4: was a pretty widespread culture of Xanax usage too. Now

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Speaker 4: that's important for a bunch of different reasons, including a

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Speaker 4: Xanax was never mentioned in that initial Pentagonal report. I

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Speaker 4: mentioned that was one of the things. So that was

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Speaker 4: not written down in these ledgers that they obtained of

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Speaker 4: all these various drugs that were prescribed at the Trump

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Speaker 4: White House as something else. And then the other thing

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Speaker 4: is that they were not only taking xanax, but many

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Speaker 4: of them were taking xanax and drinking too. Now, one

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Speaker 4: xan x by itself can mellow you out. You started

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Speaker 4: taking xan x and having a couple of drinks with it,

439
00:23:11,960 --> 00:23:14,359
Speaker 4: and it can be really serious, and you know, you

440
00:23:14,440 --> 00:23:16,639
Speaker 4: do too much of that and can have huge risks

441
00:23:16,680 --> 00:23:19,320
Speaker 4: to your health. So doing sort of uppers and xen

442
00:23:19,560 --> 00:23:24,520
Speaker 4: x with booze. That is a really scary rollercoaster to ride.

443
00:23:24,960 --> 00:23:30,399
Speaker 1: Do you think that this will have repercussions to doctor Jackson?

444
00:23:30,960 --> 00:23:34,080
Speaker 4: I don't know, Honestly, I didn't surprise he hasn't suffered

445
00:23:34,119 --> 00:23:37,399
Speaker 4: war repercussions already. I'm surprised he got into Congress. So

446
00:23:37,440 --> 00:23:40,680
Speaker 4: I'm not sure what the consequences will be for doctor Jackson.

447
00:23:40,840 --> 00:23:44,160
Speaker 4: I think the consequences for the country if this kind

448
00:23:44,160 --> 00:23:48,679
Speaker 4: of drugstore cowboy rodeo returns to the White House, I

449
00:23:48,680 --> 00:23:51,200
Speaker 4: think are really serious. I mean, we already know the

450
00:23:51,800 --> 00:23:52,119
Speaker 4: will be.

451
00:23:52,760 --> 00:23:55,760
Speaker 2: He'll be visiting us in fortunately a man.

452
00:23:55,880 --> 00:23:58,399
Speaker 4: Yes, continue, well, I mean I feel like, look, we

453
00:23:58,440 --> 00:24:01,600
Speaker 4: already know these guys have some some really kooky plans

454
00:24:01,600 --> 00:24:03,679
Speaker 4: in place. So if you layer on top of that

455
00:24:03,960 --> 00:24:07,679
Speaker 4: kookie plans and even you know, kookie or decision making

456
00:24:08,200 --> 00:24:12,000
Speaker 4: more erratic, more hopped up, that seems like a really

457
00:24:12,080 --> 00:24:12,879
Speaker 4: bad combination.

458
00:24:13,119 --> 00:24:13,600
Speaker 2: It does.

459
00:24:13,680 --> 00:24:19,840
Speaker 1: And we've seen lots of authoritarian regimes that were powered

460
00:24:19,880 --> 00:24:20,520
Speaker 1: by speed.

461
00:24:20,960 --> 00:24:23,520
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's true. And then you know the other thing

462
00:24:23,600 --> 00:24:27,560
Speaker 4: speaking of authoritarian regimes is like, you know, there's a

463
00:24:27,600 --> 00:24:31,200
Speaker 4: real climate in the Trump White House of fear and paranoia,

464
00:24:31,359 --> 00:24:34,399
Speaker 4: you know, and New was sometimes the benefits of reporters

465
00:24:34,440 --> 00:24:38,000
Speaker 4: like us, where you know, people would be more inclined

466
00:24:38,040 --> 00:24:42,280
Speaker 4: to snitch on their you know, bureaucratic rivals than they

467
00:24:42,280 --> 00:24:45,600
Speaker 4: were to actually do their jobs. And people are constantly

468
00:24:45,680 --> 00:24:48,440
Speaker 4: scared and constantly trying to jockey for position, to get

469
00:24:48,480 --> 00:24:52,560
Speaker 4: in Trump's favor, and it created this atmosphere, especially with

470
00:24:52,720 --> 00:24:57,120
Speaker 4: Roddy Jackson, of fear and paranoia. And we uncovered something

471
00:24:57,240 --> 00:25:01,679
Speaker 4: new that really added to that climate of fear and paranoia,

472
00:25:02,040 --> 00:25:07,200
Speaker 4: which is I tracked down a mental health worker who

473
00:25:07,600 --> 00:25:12,560
Speaker 4: was doing therapy sessions for administration officials in the Trump

474
00:25:12,560 --> 00:25:16,280
Speaker 4: White House. And what this source told me was that

475
00:25:16,640 --> 00:25:20,880
Speaker 4: they were marched to a particular you know, officials office,

476
00:25:21,119 --> 00:25:24,719
Speaker 4: the therapy session would happen, and then immediately afterwards the

477
00:25:24,720 --> 00:25:30,440
Speaker 4: therapist was grilled about what the Trump officials said in

478
00:25:30,520 --> 00:25:34,600
Speaker 4: therapy amazing, which is it's.

479
00:25:34,440 --> 00:25:37,879
Speaker 1: Not how any of this is supposed to work, but

480
00:25:38,800 --> 00:25:39,719
Speaker 1: it's really not.

481
00:25:40,240 --> 00:25:40,840
Speaker 2: Wow.

482
00:25:42,240 --> 00:25:46,600
Speaker 4: Yeah, And so reaching that kind of therapist confidentiality, you know,

483
00:25:46,640 --> 00:25:48,600
Speaker 4: it was particularly shocking to me. I'm I'm married to

484
00:25:48,640 --> 00:25:52,240
Speaker 4: a psychiatrist, and obviously, as a as a New York.

485
00:25:52,240 --> 00:25:55,080
Speaker 2: Jew, therapy is something near and dear to your.

486
00:25:55,000 --> 00:25:58,600
Speaker 4: Heart, But I mean, I think it's shocking to pretty

487
00:25:58,640 --> 00:26:01,920
Speaker 4: much everyone. The one of the senior people at the

488
00:26:01,920 --> 00:26:04,760
Speaker 4: White House Medical, a professional named Keith Bass who's now

489
00:26:04,840 --> 00:26:07,600
Speaker 4: at the VA and who served many presidents. He claimed

490
00:26:07,640 --> 00:26:10,120
Speaker 4: that this was all just to make sure that people

491
00:26:10,200 --> 00:26:14,199
Speaker 4: that were military members were still fit for duty and

492
00:26:14,240 --> 00:26:16,639
Speaker 4: still fit for top secret clearance. That was his claim

493
00:26:16,640 --> 00:26:18,200
Speaker 4: and pulled it to us on the record. So he

494
00:26:18,240 --> 00:26:22,359
Speaker 4: admitted that the therapist was grilled after sessions. However, then

495
00:26:22,400 --> 00:26:24,000
Speaker 4: I went back to the therapist and was like, what's

496
00:26:24,080 --> 00:26:26,200
Speaker 4: up with this, and the therapist said, no, no, no, that's

497
00:26:26,200 --> 00:26:28,399
Speaker 4: not right. First of all, you know, I saw both

498
00:26:28,600 --> 00:26:33,800
Speaker 4: military and civilians, so that military only things long. And

499
00:26:34,000 --> 00:26:37,320
Speaker 4: number two, the therapist really felt like while the question

500
00:26:37,440 --> 00:26:40,080
Speaker 4: started out broad, they really went down a slippery slope

501
00:26:40,119 --> 00:26:45,520
Speaker 4: and really just contributed to anything goes atmosphere where could

502
00:26:45,560 --> 00:26:48,359
Speaker 4: hand out any drug and say anything about any patient

503
00:26:48,400 --> 00:26:51,240
Speaker 4: behind their back, and that information was really handled loosely.

504
00:26:51,400 --> 00:26:54,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm shocked. Yeah, I know, it's one of these things.

505
00:26:54,520 --> 00:26:57,600
Speaker 4: Like to me, it like honestly, it helped make a

506
00:26:57,640 --> 00:27:01,440
Speaker 4: little bit more sense of that madhouse because people were

507
00:27:02,000 --> 00:27:04,360
Speaker 4: literally on drugs and spying on each other.

508
00:27:04,480 --> 00:27:07,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, who could have seen it? It's basically everything you think.

509
00:27:07,800 --> 00:27:10,280
Speaker 1: It strikes me that it seems like there hasn't been

510
00:27:10,280 --> 00:27:12,200
Speaker 1: a ton of accountability for any of this.

511
00:27:12,840 --> 00:27:13,800
Speaker 4: No, there hasn't been.

512
00:27:13,960 --> 00:27:16,720
Speaker 1: Call me a Pollyanna, but like, isn't there a world

513
00:27:16,760 --> 00:27:20,160
Speaker 1: where people get in trouble for doing bad illegal stuff?

514
00:27:20,200 --> 00:27:20,760
Speaker 2: For now?

515
00:27:21,320 --> 00:27:24,320
Speaker 4: Yeah? I mean, look, I think I'm a little surprised

516
00:27:24,320 --> 00:27:27,960
Speaker 4: there hasn't been also, like just medical repercussions for people,

517
00:27:28,080 --> 00:27:31,479
Speaker 4: Like a little surprised people involved in this haven't suffered

518
00:27:31,520 --> 00:27:34,520
Speaker 4: any repercussions, you know, just within their their licensing bureaus

519
00:27:34,560 --> 00:27:36,959
Speaker 4: or whatever. That sounds like small potatoes, prefer doctor. It's

520
00:27:37,000 --> 00:27:37,399
Speaker 4: really not.

521
00:27:37,760 --> 00:27:37,840
Speaker 2: So.

522
00:27:37,920 --> 00:27:40,160
Speaker 4: No, there haven't been a repercussions yet. But I think

523
00:27:40,200 --> 00:27:42,359
Speaker 4: what we've been able to do is really show like

524
00:27:42,400 --> 00:27:44,440
Speaker 4: a little bit more why things happen the way they

525
00:27:44,440 --> 00:27:46,840
Speaker 4: happen at the Trump White House and what might happen

526
00:27:46,880 --> 00:27:48,359
Speaker 4: in the future. Like I just want to say the

527
00:27:48,400 --> 00:27:50,200
Speaker 4: other thing, like, you know, this is a story for

528
00:27:50,320 --> 00:27:54,320
Speaker 4: Rolling Stone, right, Rolling Stone is on anti drug you know,

529
00:27:54,400 --> 00:27:58,879
Speaker 4: outfit or anything like that. Yes, yes, I'm aware, So

530
00:27:59,000 --> 00:28:02,600
Speaker 4: I'm not trying to be all sober. Yeah, I'm hardly that,

531
00:28:02,800 --> 00:28:05,000
Speaker 4: as you know. But like I think, there's a big

532
00:28:05,000 --> 00:28:08,399
Speaker 4: difference between having some fun or expanding your mind in

533
00:28:08,440 --> 00:28:12,480
Speaker 4: the way you choose and abusing prescription meds at the

534
00:28:12,560 --> 00:28:15,359
Speaker 4: highest levels of government. Those would be like two different things.

535
00:28:15,359 --> 00:28:17,400
Speaker 4: And so you know, I'm not trying to be all

536
00:28:17,440 --> 00:28:20,840
Speaker 4: par clutching here, but this is fund Yeah, this is

537
00:28:20,960 --> 00:28:23,840
Speaker 4: the ain't great And honestly I was shot with what

538
00:28:23,880 --> 00:28:25,040
Speaker 4: I found, really shot.

539
00:28:25,240 --> 00:28:27,720
Speaker 2: Noah shank Man, thank you so much for joining us.

540
00:28:27,880 --> 00:28:29,440
Speaker 4: Thanks wellie.

541
00:28:30,320 --> 00:28:34,600
Speaker 1: Michael Leirov and Peter Shamshery are the hosts of the podcast.

542
00:28:34,200 --> 00:28:34,840
Speaker 2: Five to four.

543
00:28:35,440 --> 00:28:38,680
Speaker 1: My favorite podcast is this podcast called five to four

544
00:28:38,920 --> 00:28:40,440
Speaker 1: about how the Supreme Court.

545
00:28:40,280 --> 00:28:42,120
Speaker 2: Sucks and I'm a huge fan.

546
00:28:42,240 --> 00:28:47,800
Speaker 1: And yesterday when the Supreme Court did yet another incredibly

547
00:28:47,880 --> 00:28:51,040
Speaker 1: fucked up thing, I thought, wonder if I could email

548
00:28:51,120 --> 00:28:54,200
Speaker 1: Leon and ask him if we could get two of

549
00:28:54,280 --> 00:28:55,600
Speaker 1: the hosts of five to four.

550
00:28:55,840 --> 00:28:59,600
Speaker 2: So we did and they're here. Help me.

551
00:28:59,680 --> 00:29:03,240
Speaker 5: Welcome Michael, Hi, everybody, very pleased to be here.

552
00:29:03,440 --> 00:29:06,520
Speaker 1: Well, we're thrilled to have you and Peter hello, and

553
00:29:06,920 --> 00:29:08,240
Speaker 1: very excited to have you both.

554
00:29:08,480 --> 00:29:11,960
Speaker 2: Two of the three hosts. Rihanna's not here. Someone talk

555
00:29:12,080 --> 00:29:13,800
Speaker 2: us through what the fuck happened yesterday?

556
00:29:13,800 --> 00:29:16,480
Speaker 4: I can walk you through the basics.

557
00:29:16,560 --> 00:29:19,760
Speaker 5: I guess Donald Trump is Obviously, he's been indicted in

558
00:29:19,840 --> 00:29:22,600
Speaker 5: a few different states by a few different actors, but

559
00:29:22,880 --> 00:29:26,000
Speaker 5: one of them, the Special Council Jack Smith, has indicted

560
00:29:26,040 --> 00:29:29,880
Speaker 5: him in federal court in the District of Columbia for

561
00:29:30,040 --> 00:29:35,160
Speaker 5: crimes related to the January sixth riot, including conspiracy against

562
00:29:35,280 --> 00:29:39,600
Speaker 5: rights and conspiracy to defraud the United States. President Trump

563
00:29:39,680 --> 00:29:43,440
Speaker 5: has raised a defense saying he is immune from criminal

564
00:29:43,480 --> 00:29:48,040
Speaker 5: prosecution for his actions around and leading up to January sixth,

565
00:29:48,360 --> 00:29:53,040
Speaker 5: and yesterday the Supreme Court agreed to hear that argument

566
00:29:53,400 --> 00:29:57,760
Speaker 5: and scheduled oral argument for late April, which had the

567
00:29:57,800 --> 00:30:03,040
Speaker 5: effect of delaying the ability to try Donald Trump on

568
00:30:03,080 --> 00:30:07,600
Speaker 5: these charges and take that trial to completion before the election.

569
00:30:07,920 --> 00:30:09,760
Speaker 5: That seems impossible now.

570
00:30:09,880 --> 00:30:12,160
Speaker 6: And if I can add some color here, the DC

571
00:30:12,400 --> 00:30:16,040
Speaker 6: Circuit had basically ruled against Trump earlier this month, So

572
00:30:16,400 --> 00:30:18,480
Speaker 6: the Supreme Court had a couple of options. They could

573
00:30:18,480 --> 00:30:20,800
Speaker 6: have just allowed that to stand and said you're not

574
00:30:20,840 --> 00:30:24,240
Speaker 6: immune the trials going forward, or they could have taken

575
00:30:24,320 --> 00:30:26,320
Speaker 6: up the case in some form or fashion, which is

576
00:30:26,360 --> 00:30:28,840
Speaker 6: what they did. What they did that was so bizarre.

577
00:30:28,960 --> 00:30:30,600
Speaker 6: I think a lot of people expected that they might

578
00:30:30,640 --> 00:30:32,160
Speaker 6: take up the case. But what they did that was

579
00:30:32,200 --> 00:30:35,400
Speaker 6: so bizarre was take it up on such a kind

580
00:30:35,440 --> 00:30:38,400
Speaker 6: of slow schedule. Usually they'd take something like this up

581
00:30:38,440 --> 00:30:41,320
Speaker 6: on an expedited basis, so that we're getting it dealt

582
00:30:41,360 --> 00:30:44,240
Speaker 6: with in the span of a few weeks rather than

583
00:30:44,520 --> 00:30:47,760
Speaker 6: a few months, like Bush versus Gore right, or like

584
00:30:47,880 --> 00:30:51,520
Speaker 6: they've sped along some other Trump proceedings like the Fourteenth

585
00:30:51,520 --> 00:30:55,280
Speaker 6: Amendment claim, which they dealt with relatively quickly, and I think,

586
00:30:55,320 --> 00:30:57,280
Speaker 6: you know, we'll probably see an opinion a little bit

587
00:30:57,320 --> 00:31:00,840
Speaker 6: faster in that case. So they expedited things all the time.

588
00:31:00,880 --> 00:31:03,320
Speaker 6: It's not uncommon, and it's pretty telling it they didn't

589
00:31:03,320 --> 00:31:03,760
Speaker 6: do it here.

590
00:31:04,000 --> 00:31:07,959
Speaker 5: Yeah, And to make that point even stronger, back in December,

591
00:31:08,520 --> 00:31:11,200
Speaker 5: when Donald Trump indicated he was going to appeal on

592
00:31:11,240 --> 00:31:14,160
Speaker 5: the basis of this immunity, the Special Council brought this

593
00:31:14,280 --> 00:31:17,560
Speaker 5: to the Supreme Court and said, let's skip the DC circuit.

594
00:31:17,680 --> 00:31:20,040
Speaker 5: This is a big important issue. It's going to end

595
00:31:20,120 --> 00:31:23,280
Speaker 5: up here anyway, so why don't you just take this up?

596
00:31:23,520 --> 00:31:25,840
Speaker 5: And the Court could have done that in December. They

597
00:31:25,880 --> 00:31:30,200
Speaker 5: did that. They've skipped Circuit review in for example, the

598
00:31:30,440 --> 00:31:35,640
Speaker 5: student loan case where they nullified Biden's student debt relief.

599
00:31:35,760 --> 00:31:38,480
Speaker 5: They skipped the Circuit Court of Appeals there, this is

600
00:31:38,520 --> 00:31:42,480
Speaker 5: something they could do, they've done recently. Instead, they kicked

601
00:31:42,520 --> 00:31:45,800
Speaker 5: it down to the DC Circuit and wasted three months

602
00:31:46,200 --> 00:31:49,240
Speaker 5: and then took it up just a total just wasting

603
00:31:49,280 --> 00:31:50,160
Speaker 5: everybody's time.

604
00:31:50,880 --> 00:31:54,040
Speaker 2: Clearly just delaying.

605
00:31:53,400 --> 00:31:57,760
Speaker 5: This to put any possible resolution past the elections. The

606
00:31:57,800 --> 00:32:02,800
Speaker 5: only possible explanation, the only plausible explanation.

607
00:32:02,560 --> 00:32:05,360
Speaker 2: They granted cert. Right, can you explain what that means?

608
00:32:05,720 --> 00:32:08,640
Speaker 6: Yeah, cert is just the court accepting a case. You

609
00:32:08,680 --> 00:32:12,280
Speaker 6: need four justices to grant cert as opposed to five

610
00:32:12,400 --> 00:32:16,040
Speaker 6: for an actual majority. They're just saying, yeah, we're going

611
00:32:16,080 --> 00:32:18,760
Speaker 6: to hear this case on the merits. I think again,

612
00:32:18,880 --> 00:32:21,160
Speaker 6: that was something people expected. People just didn't expect them

613
00:32:21,200 --> 00:32:23,200
Speaker 6: to put it on a slow moving schedule.

614
00:32:23,400 --> 00:32:23,640
Speaker 2: Right.

615
00:32:23,800 --> 00:32:28,000
Speaker 1: If you were trying to help out Donald Trump, this

616
00:32:28,120 --> 00:32:30,720
Speaker 1: would be the way you would do it.

617
00:32:30,840 --> 00:32:36,320
Speaker 5: Absolutely. Trump's main tactic, his main litigation strategy and all

618
00:32:36,320 --> 00:32:39,880
Speaker 5: these cases has been delay, delayed, delayed, delay, with the

619
00:32:39,920 --> 00:32:43,200
Speaker 5: hopes that he can win the twenty twenty four election

620
00:32:43,520 --> 00:32:46,680
Speaker 5: and then use his power as president to shut down

621
00:32:46,720 --> 00:32:50,680
Speaker 5: the investigations or prosecutions on the federal level and shields

622
00:32:50,720 --> 00:32:54,640
Speaker 5: himself from having to pay any judgments or serve any

623
00:32:54,720 --> 00:32:57,440
Speaker 5: prison time at the state level. That's what he's trying

624
00:32:57,480 --> 00:33:00,400
Speaker 5: to do, and the court is helping him. They are

625
00:33:00,520 --> 00:33:02,120
Speaker 5: just straight up enabling him.

626
00:33:02,240 --> 00:33:03,800
Speaker 1: So I think of it as like there are three

627
00:33:03,840 --> 00:33:08,120
Speaker 1: Trump installed justices, right, the smartest of whom is Amy.

628
00:33:07,880 --> 00:33:10,920
Speaker 2: Comy Barrett by a large margin, but she's still a

629
00:33:11,080 --> 00:33:12,680
Speaker 2: zellin yes, yes.

630
00:33:13,080 --> 00:33:16,360
Speaker 1: And then you have like the Fox News brain damaged

631
00:33:16,480 --> 00:33:19,640
Speaker 1: Alito and Thomas, and then you have like the sort

632
00:33:19,720 --> 00:33:23,560
Speaker 1: of Roberts who is still like pretending that he's normal

633
00:33:23,640 --> 00:33:24,080
Speaker 1: but he's not.

634
00:33:24,640 --> 00:33:24,840
Speaker 2: Well.

635
00:33:24,880 --> 00:33:27,920
Speaker 1: You look at this case, almost everyone thought that this

636
00:33:28,000 --> 00:33:30,640
Speaker 1: would absolutely not be called up.

637
00:33:30,760 --> 00:33:33,520
Speaker 2: And I'm hoping you talk about this week.

638
00:33:33,320 --> 00:33:37,160
Speaker 1: On your excellent podcast, you guys talked about the Nixon case,

639
00:33:37,200 --> 00:33:41,400
Speaker 1: which sets the which is is really preposterous.

640
00:33:41,600 --> 00:33:44,240
Speaker 2: Will you talk about that and how that plays into

641
00:33:44,280 --> 00:33:44,560
Speaker 2: all of this.

642
00:33:45,280 --> 00:33:48,760
Speaker 6: Yeah, sure, So Nixon Vie Fitzgerald is really the only

643
00:33:48,800 --> 00:33:53,160
Speaker 6: Supreme Court case that has dealt with immunity for presidents.

644
00:33:53,400 --> 00:33:56,680
Speaker 6: It was from nineteen eighty two. It was by Nixon, standards,

645
00:33:56,720 --> 00:34:02,040
Speaker 6: relatively small potatoes. It's just a guy who testified he

646
00:34:02,080 --> 00:34:04,400
Speaker 6: was in the Air Force, and then Nixon fired him

647
00:34:04,520 --> 00:34:07,120
Speaker 6: once Nixon got into office on the basis that he

648
00:34:07,160 --> 00:34:10,360
Speaker 6: didn't like his testimony, and the guy sued for basically

649
00:34:10,400 --> 00:34:13,840
Speaker 6: wrongful termination, and the Supreme Court said, well, we're not

650
00:34:14,000 --> 00:34:18,279
Speaker 6: going to allow civil damages against presidents for things they

651
00:34:18,320 --> 00:34:22,120
Speaker 6: do in office, for like official acts they take in office.

652
00:34:22,360 --> 00:34:27,400
Speaker 6: There is really no case that deals with criminal immunity.

653
00:34:27,600 --> 00:34:30,560
Speaker 6: So the Nixon case is sort of all we have,

654
00:34:30,800 --> 00:34:33,600
Speaker 6: and frankly, it's just not really on point. You know,

655
00:34:33,680 --> 00:34:36,640
Speaker 6: I think everyone agrees that, you know, hiring and firing

656
00:34:36,840 --> 00:34:41,799
Speaker 6: within the military or executive agencies is something that is

657
00:34:41,960 --> 00:34:45,240
Speaker 6: a part of the president's job to some degree. Whether

658
00:34:45,680 --> 00:34:49,319
Speaker 6: facilitating a coup is part of the president's job is a.

659
00:34:49,239 --> 00:34:50,200
Speaker 2: Whole different question.

660
00:34:50,840 --> 00:34:54,080
Speaker 6: So we're in a totally different scenario here, and you know,

661
00:34:54,120 --> 00:34:56,839
Speaker 6: we're sort of just staring at the Nixon case thinking, well,

662
00:34:56,920 --> 00:34:59,800
Speaker 6: is there anything it can tell us about the Trump situation. Frankly,

663
00:34:59,840 --> 00:35:01,520
Speaker 6: I'm not sure that there's too much.

664
00:35:01,920 --> 00:35:04,799
Speaker 5: Yeah, I think that's right, And it's hard to say

665
00:35:05,280 --> 00:35:08,200
Speaker 5: what precisely attack the Supreme Court is going to take here.

666
00:35:08,480 --> 00:35:10,440
Speaker 5: But it does seem like they might be setting this

667
00:35:10,560 --> 00:35:14,120
Speaker 5: up to say, well, does the Nixon I. Fitzgerald case

668
00:35:14,239 --> 00:35:19,319
Speaker 5: extend to criminal liability as well, and to say no, no,

669
00:35:20,120 --> 00:35:22,640
Speaker 5: that does not mean you're immune from criminal liability.

670
00:35:22,880 --> 00:35:25,320
Speaker 2: They have no leg to stand on here though.

671
00:35:25,480 --> 00:35:25,520
Speaker 6: No.

672
00:35:25,920 --> 00:35:30,360
Speaker 5: Yeah, it's it's a crazy and frankly frivolous argument. The

673
00:35:30,400 --> 00:35:37,440
Speaker 5: Constitution explicitly contemplates the president being subject to criminal process

674
00:35:37,920 --> 00:35:41,840
Speaker 5: after leaving the office. In the impeachment judgment clause, it says,

675
00:35:42,239 --> 00:35:45,040
Speaker 5: after you're impeached, you know, that doesn't stop you from

676
00:35:45,080 --> 00:35:49,360
Speaker 5: being prosecuted for crimes that you committed while in office.

677
00:35:49,400 --> 00:35:51,840
Speaker 5: So it's right there in the text of the Constitution.

678
00:35:52,120 --> 00:35:54,800
Speaker 5: It's a pretty wild claim, but it's not when I

679
00:35:54,880 --> 00:35:57,719
Speaker 5: think Trump expected to win on just to drag this

680
00:35:57,800 --> 00:36:01,200
Speaker 5: out long enough. His lacky's on the co have obliged him.

681
00:36:01,160 --> 00:36:02,440
Speaker 2: In that everyone.

682
00:36:02,719 --> 00:36:05,440
Speaker 1: I mean, I actually was talking on the phone or

683
00:36:05,480 --> 00:36:07,759
Speaker 1: I was talking in person to it was one of

684
00:36:07,760 --> 00:36:11,640
Speaker 1: those like very smart people who were like, oh, they're

685
00:36:11,680 --> 00:36:13,719
Speaker 1: never going to take this up. And I feel like

686
00:36:14,280 --> 00:36:18,160
Speaker 1: this Supreme Court does tend to plumb the depths.

687
00:36:18,480 --> 00:36:21,719
Speaker 5: Yeah, you know, you'll never go broke betting that they

688
00:36:21,840 --> 00:36:26,880
Speaker 5: will just whatever like the worst Fox News strained like

689
00:36:27,560 --> 00:36:31,440
Speaker 5: you know fourteen or Reddit commenter wants them to do.

690
00:36:31,840 --> 00:36:32,680
Speaker 3: It's pretty wild.

691
00:36:32,800 --> 00:36:37,239
Speaker 5: This is very very hackish and in the tank for

692
00:36:37,280 --> 00:36:40,120
Speaker 5: Trump in a way that is like even a little

693
00:36:40,200 --> 00:36:42,600
Speaker 5: surprising to me, to be honest, And we are pretty

694
00:36:42,600 --> 00:36:43,799
Speaker 5: cynical about this court.

695
00:36:43,920 --> 00:36:45,279
Speaker 2: Peter, are you surprised?

696
00:36:45,520 --> 00:36:47,520
Speaker 6: I don't think I'm as surprised as a lot of

697
00:36:47,520 --> 00:36:50,000
Speaker 6: other people. I do think that, you know, if you

698
00:36:50,000 --> 00:36:53,000
Speaker 6: look at a lot of commentators from a few days ago,

699
00:36:53,040 --> 00:36:55,879
Speaker 6: they were saying, well, the worst case scenario is that

700
00:36:55,920 --> 00:36:58,960
Speaker 6: the Court will take up the case and drag this

701
00:36:59,120 --> 00:37:02,000
Speaker 6: through late March, and what they actually did was drag

702
00:37:02,080 --> 00:37:04,799
Speaker 6: it through late April at the earliest. So I do

703
00:37:04,880 --> 00:37:08,640
Speaker 6: think it was a situation where just about everyone was

704
00:37:08,719 --> 00:37:11,800
Speaker 6: caught off guard by the scale of what they did,

705
00:37:12,120 --> 00:37:14,799
Speaker 6: whether you predicted some little part of it or not.

706
00:37:15,080 --> 00:37:16,360
Speaker 6: So I don't want to pretend that I was the

707
00:37:16,360 --> 00:37:19,240
Speaker 6: one person to see this coming. I really didn't see

708
00:37:19,280 --> 00:37:22,239
Speaker 6: all of it coming. But it doesn't surprise me that

709
00:37:22,640 --> 00:37:25,359
Speaker 6: four or five justices on the Court would want to

710
00:37:25,760 --> 00:37:28,759
Speaker 6: deal with the immunity issue themselves rather than have the

711
00:37:28,880 --> 00:37:30,600
Speaker 6: DC circuit be the last word.

712
00:37:30,880 --> 00:37:34,600
Speaker 1: But do you think again, Jesse says, like bad podcasting

713
00:37:34,640 --> 00:37:35,720
Speaker 1: is trying to predict the future.

714
00:37:35,800 --> 00:37:37,360
Speaker 2: But it's so crazy.

715
00:37:37,440 --> 00:37:38,960
Speaker 1: I mean, you think they're going to be like, you

716
00:37:39,080 --> 00:37:41,480
Speaker 1: can be immune from all the crimes you did.

717
00:37:41,880 --> 00:37:43,080
Speaker 2: No, I think that.

718
00:37:43,360 --> 00:37:43,560
Speaker 4: You know.

719
00:37:43,680 --> 00:37:47,440
Speaker 6: Trump's bringing a few different arguments. The craziest one is basically,

720
00:37:47,520 --> 00:37:51,640
Speaker 6: you know, the court lacks jurisdiction to review any of

721
00:37:51,640 --> 00:37:56,040
Speaker 6: this due to separation of powers, which would basically mean

722
00:37:56,360 --> 00:38:00,239
Speaker 6: that the president is a god king and can amit

723
00:38:00,320 --> 00:38:02,880
Speaker 6: all sorts of heinous crimes as long as there's.

724
00:38:02,760 --> 00:38:05,319
Speaker 2: Just Seal Team six, right, right.

725
00:38:05,360 --> 00:38:07,520
Speaker 6: This is the theory that, like, you know, you can

726
00:38:07,560 --> 00:38:11,440
Speaker 6: just kill your political opponent, and when Congress tries to

727
00:38:11,600 --> 00:38:14,120
Speaker 6: impeach you, you kill them too, and this is all

728
00:38:14,200 --> 00:38:18,319
Speaker 6: somehow technically legal, right. I don't think the court buys that.

729
00:38:18,600 --> 00:38:22,960
Speaker 6: But there are some slightly subtler arguments that he is making.

730
00:38:23,360 --> 00:38:25,840
Speaker 6: One is that they can just say, well, look, he's

731
00:38:25,880 --> 00:38:29,680
Speaker 6: immune for certain types of actions, and this is one

732
00:38:29,719 --> 00:38:31,360
Speaker 6: of those actions that we are going to say that

733
00:38:31,440 --> 00:38:34,040
Speaker 6: this is sort of this is an official act, which

734
00:38:34,080 --> 00:38:37,160
Speaker 6: is the term that the Court and Nixon v. Fitzgerald

735
00:38:37,239 --> 00:38:39,680
Speaker 6: used Now Is that a good argument. No, but it

736
00:38:39,800 --> 00:38:42,680
Speaker 6: is sort of a limiting principle that might prevent the

737
00:38:42,719 --> 00:38:45,600
Speaker 6: worst case sort of scenarios. The other thing they can

738
00:38:45,640 --> 00:38:50,520
Speaker 6: do is basically say that impeachment is the proper process

739
00:38:50,600 --> 00:38:54,399
Speaker 6: to go through here, and that you sort of need

740
00:38:54,400 --> 00:38:58,000
Speaker 6: to move your way through the entire impeachment and conviction

741
00:38:58,440 --> 00:39:02,840
Speaker 6: process for any criminal proceeding to that and come thereafter.

742
00:39:03,520 --> 00:39:05,399
Speaker 6: That's an argument that Trump has made. He's also made

743
00:39:05,400 --> 00:39:07,800
Speaker 6: the complete reverse argument before when he was getting impeached.

744
00:39:07,800 --> 00:39:09,840
Speaker 6: She said, no, you have to criminally prosecute me first.

745
00:39:10,120 --> 00:39:13,680
Speaker 6: But he's making some arguments that are maybe just a

746
00:39:13,719 --> 00:39:16,719
Speaker 6: little I don't think they're better arguments, but they are

747
00:39:16,840 --> 00:39:20,120
Speaker 6: a little more tolerable to the median person in the

748
00:39:20,200 --> 00:39:22,560
Speaker 6: United States. So the court might bounce some of those around.

749
00:39:22,840 --> 00:39:23,360
Speaker 4: Yeah.

750
00:39:23,440 --> 00:39:26,160
Speaker 2: I think ultimately it seems.

751
00:39:25,840 --> 00:39:29,880
Speaker 5: Like a very John Roberts sort of move to say,

752
00:39:30,120 --> 00:39:32,600
Speaker 5: you know, within a couple weeks of each other or

753
00:39:32,640 --> 00:39:35,840
Speaker 5: a couple months of each other, Donald Trump has to

754
00:39:35,880 --> 00:39:38,560
Speaker 5: be on the ballot. You can't use the Fourteenth Amendment

755
00:39:38,640 --> 00:39:42,879
Speaker 5: insurrection band to bar him from the ballot. But he

756
00:39:42,960 --> 00:39:47,000
Speaker 5: also has to stay in trial for any crimes he

757
00:39:47,080 --> 00:39:50,520
Speaker 5: may have committed while in office, a real classic Roberts

758
00:39:50,560 --> 00:39:54,719
Speaker 5: split the baby type thing. And oh, hopefully you don't

759
00:39:54,760 --> 00:39:58,320
Speaker 5: notice why we were coming to this decision, this magnanimous decision.

760
00:39:58,520 --> 00:40:01,440
Speaker 5: We delayed the trial well passed when it would have

761
00:40:01,520 --> 00:40:05,480
Speaker 5: any political impact. That all feels very like his style.

762
00:40:05,560 --> 00:40:09,360
Speaker 5: They did something similar with this case Trump vi. Mezaars,

763
00:40:09,480 --> 00:40:13,719
Speaker 5: which was about subpoenaing the president, and they delayed that.

764
00:40:14,080 --> 00:40:18,279
Speaker 5: They ultimately resolved it and Trump lost, but after it

765
00:40:18,360 --> 00:40:22,440
Speaker 5: had any force or meaning because he had left office.

766
00:40:22,880 --> 00:40:25,680
Speaker 5: So it wouldn't be surprising to me if that's the

767
00:40:26,680 --> 00:40:31,160
Speaker 5: direction they go here. I think six seven years ago

768
00:40:31,360 --> 00:40:34,080
Speaker 5: the political media might have been taken in by that approach.

769
00:40:34,719 --> 00:40:36,640
Speaker 2: They don't seem as.

770
00:40:36,520 --> 00:40:38,200
Speaker 4: Easily fooled by it.

771
00:40:38,360 --> 00:40:38,520
Speaker 3: You know.

772
00:40:38,560 --> 00:40:41,480
Speaker 5: The New York Times had an editorial last night saying

773
00:40:41,480 --> 00:40:44,160
Speaker 5: this was a huge win for Trump, and their front

774
00:40:44,160 --> 00:40:49,000
Speaker 5: page this morning framed this as a victory for Trump.

775
00:40:49,360 --> 00:40:52,280
Speaker 5: I think people are sort of wise to this little

776
00:40:52,320 --> 00:40:54,680
Speaker 5: game that Roberts likes to play at this point, and

777
00:40:54,760 --> 00:40:58,200
Speaker 5: the court has lost any benefit of the doubt it

778
00:40:58,320 --> 00:40:59,839
Speaker 5: used to get, and I think that's a good thing.

779
00:41:00,040 --> 00:41:04,200
Speaker 5: I think they should feel political repercussions for this you know,

780
00:41:04,280 --> 00:41:07,480
Speaker 5: if the Democratic Party wants to impose them, I think

781
00:41:07,640 --> 00:41:09,920
Speaker 5: it would be well received by the public.

782
00:41:10,239 --> 00:41:13,480
Speaker 1: I have a question about this, which is this court

783
00:41:13,920 --> 00:41:16,960
Speaker 1: when they overturned Row, they sort of made a decision,

784
00:41:17,200 --> 00:41:20,960
Speaker 1: would you know, politics be damned? What's the political calculus

785
00:41:20,960 --> 00:41:22,440
Speaker 1: of taking this case.

786
00:41:22,760 --> 00:41:26,239
Speaker 6: Yeah, if you're looking at the big picture political calculus,

787
00:41:26,400 --> 00:41:30,200
Speaker 6: it's probably bad for the institution of the court. But

788
00:41:30,840 --> 00:41:34,520
Speaker 6: there are some pretty strong indicators that the justices don't

789
00:41:34,560 --> 00:41:38,520
Speaker 6: really care about that and have basically made the decision

790
00:41:38,560 --> 00:41:41,640
Speaker 6: that whatever happens to the institution of the Court, the

791
00:41:41,680 --> 00:41:44,400
Speaker 6: Democrats don't have the political jews to pack the court.

792
00:41:44,480 --> 00:41:48,680
Speaker 6: They don't have the political jews to impeach Clarence Thomas

793
00:41:49,120 --> 00:41:53,440
Speaker 6: or anything along those lines. So will people get mad, sure,

794
00:41:53,960 --> 00:41:57,440
Speaker 6: But that's sort of the cost of doing business. And meanwhile,

795
00:41:57,600 --> 00:42:01,640
Speaker 6: you know, they're getting high fives at the Federal Society meetings.

796
00:42:01,800 --> 00:42:05,080
Speaker 6: So from their perspective, you know, who cares. Maybe you

797
00:42:05,160 --> 00:42:07,800
Speaker 6: get some bad op eds in the New York Times,

798
00:42:07,880 --> 00:42:10,600
Speaker 6: but cost of doing business. That's the price you pay

799
00:42:10,680 --> 00:42:14,520
Speaker 6: in their view for being a fearless truth teller who

800
00:42:14,560 --> 00:42:16,879
Speaker 6: is defending Donald Trump, right. I think that's the Sam

801
00:42:16,880 --> 00:42:20,560
Speaker 6: Alito calculus. Frankly, I do think it's somewhat detached from reality,

802
00:42:20,600 --> 00:42:23,839
Speaker 6: but there's also a pragmatism to it. I think it's

803
00:42:23,880 --> 00:42:27,680
Speaker 6: true that the Democratic Party doesn't really have the muscle

804
00:42:27,760 --> 00:42:29,920
Speaker 6: right now to hold the Court accountable, and I think

805
00:42:29,960 --> 00:42:30,879
Speaker 6: the Court's aware of that.

806
00:42:31,000 --> 00:42:34,920
Speaker 5: Yeah, I think they learned a lesson from Dobbs, the

807
00:42:34,960 --> 00:42:37,279
Speaker 5: case overturning Roe v. Wade, and not the one we

808
00:42:37,280 --> 00:42:42,960
Speaker 5: would have wanted. Obviously, the Republican Party underperformed historically compared

809
00:42:42,960 --> 00:42:47,840
Speaker 5: to expectations in the midterm elections that followed. But Joe Biden,

810
00:42:48,200 --> 00:42:52,200
Speaker 5: the President, was very against any efforts to push back

811
00:42:52,239 --> 00:42:55,400
Speaker 5: and reform the Court in the wake of Dobbs. He

812
00:42:55,480 --> 00:42:58,200
Speaker 5: didn't really want to take them on at the time.

813
00:42:58,920 --> 00:43:03,040
Speaker 5: And the Supreme Court care that the Republicans took a loss. Right,

814
00:43:03,160 --> 00:43:06,840
Speaker 5: they're still in power. They are still able to overturn

815
00:43:07,200 --> 00:43:10,680
Speaker 5: the student debt relief, for example, or end affirmative action,

816
00:43:11,200 --> 00:43:13,759
Speaker 5: or any of the other number of horrible things they've

817
00:43:13,800 --> 00:43:16,560
Speaker 5: done or will do. Get up there saying we'll hold

818
00:43:16,640 --> 00:43:19,799
Speaker 5: all the cards, and you guys aren't even willing to

819
00:43:19,920 --> 00:43:23,400
Speaker 5: talk about doing anything to take them from our hands.

820
00:43:23,840 --> 00:43:27,000
Speaker 5: So why would we slow down. I think it's ultimately

821
00:43:27,120 --> 00:43:32,800
Speaker 5: until an institutional counter emerges to them from either Congress

822
00:43:32,880 --> 00:43:35,719
Speaker 5: or the executive that is willing to actually push back

823
00:43:35,760 --> 00:43:39,239
Speaker 5: on them, they are going to feel completely uninhibited. And

824
00:43:39,280 --> 00:43:40,040
Speaker 5: that's frightening.

825
00:43:40,239 --> 00:43:41,000
Speaker 4: That's frightening to me.

826
00:43:41,400 --> 00:43:44,080
Speaker 1: Thank you guys for coming on the show and making

827
00:43:44,120 --> 00:43:48,960
Speaker 1: me more depressed. But also it's such an interesting problem

828
00:43:49,200 --> 00:43:53,359
Speaker 1: because it really is Democrats have to get going on it.

829
00:43:53,760 --> 00:43:55,880
Speaker 5: Yeah, you know, it's one of those things where I

830
00:43:55,920 --> 00:43:58,600
Speaker 5: think their voters will be with you. Nobody's very happy

831
00:43:58,640 --> 00:44:00,920
Speaker 5: with the court right now. You just got to do it.

832
00:44:01,000 --> 00:44:05,200
Speaker 5: You got to fight the bullet.

833
00:44:04,560 --> 00:44:09,120
Speaker 2: No moment, Rick Wilson, do you want me to go first?

834
00:44:09,200 --> 00:44:10,240
Speaker 2: Or do you want to go first?

835
00:44:10,600 --> 00:44:13,160
Speaker 3: You go first, you roll your moment of fuckery.

836
00:44:13,400 --> 00:44:16,880
Speaker 1: Okay, So my moment of fuckery is, like we've been

837
00:44:16,880 --> 00:44:20,720
Speaker 1: talking a lot about, like Republicans making absolutely moronic political

838
00:44:20,760 --> 00:44:24,600
Speaker 1: decisions that will later cause them to lose everything. Continuing

839
00:44:24,640 --> 00:44:29,880
Speaker 1: that theme, my moment of fuckery is Cindy Hyde Smith who.

840
00:44:29,680 --> 00:44:34,880
Speaker 2: You may know her as Mema mem Yes, as mem She's.

841
00:44:34,719 --> 00:44:37,719
Speaker 1: A United States senator, or at least they've sort of

842
00:44:37,760 --> 00:44:38,319
Speaker 1: propped her.

843
00:44:38,239 --> 00:44:39,680
Speaker 2: By the way Alabama.

844
00:44:39,719 --> 00:44:43,480
Speaker 1: They have found every white woman who is like about

845
00:44:43,560 --> 00:44:46,560
Speaker 1: eighty who may or may not be totally with it

846
00:44:46,640 --> 00:44:49,880
Speaker 1: and prop them up right. They're like, we have women here.

847
00:44:50,160 --> 00:44:54,319
Speaker 1: Cindy Hide Smith, she's from Mississippi. She once dressed up

848
00:44:54,400 --> 00:44:59,120
Speaker 1: as a Confederate soldier. Because who among us Tammy Duckrose

849
00:44:59,680 --> 00:45:05,600
Speaker 1: brought tried to codify IVF. We're not even talking about abortion.

850
00:45:06,120 --> 00:45:10,480
Speaker 1: We're not even talking about, like you know, same sex marriage.

851
00:45:10,480 --> 00:45:15,080
Speaker 1: We're talking about IVF. It's something that probably more Republicans

852
00:45:15,120 --> 00:45:18,560
Speaker 1: because richer people tend to do IVF, but so probably

853
00:45:18,560 --> 00:45:21,879
Speaker 1: more Republicans than Democrats. Who even knows, but a lot

854
00:45:21,960 --> 00:45:25,239
Speaker 1: of people use IVF. Is not a controversial way to

855
00:45:25,280 --> 00:45:30,240
Speaker 1: conceive a child. No, we are now Republicans refused. Cindy

856
00:45:30,360 --> 00:45:34,360
Speaker 1: Hindsmith refused to do a vote to codify IVF. So

857
00:45:34,719 --> 00:45:37,640
Speaker 1: the Republicans have now explained to us that they do

858
00:45:37,760 --> 00:45:38,520
Speaker 1: not give a fuck.

859
00:45:38,760 --> 00:45:40,960
Speaker 3: If I had gone first, I would have given you

860
00:45:41,040 --> 00:45:43,400
Speaker 3: the exact same moment of fuckery. I want to actually

861
00:45:43,480 --> 00:45:46,480
Speaker 3: encourage the Republicans to do something. Be true to yourselves,

862
00:45:46,719 --> 00:45:49,880
Speaker 3: go out and say it. Say you don't want anybody

863
00:45:49,880 --> 00:45:52,840
Speaker 3: to get IVF. Because after Hide Smith did it. Not

864
00:45:52,960 --> 00:45:55,120
Speaker 3: one of them was out there saying, my god, my

865
00:45:55,239 --> 00:45:57,799
Speaker 3: colleague on my side of the aisle is wrong. You

866
00:45:57,840 --> 00:46:00,520
Speaker 3: know what they did. They all shut up and they hit.

867
00:46:00,880 --> 00:46:03,799
Speaker 3: And guys, if you're gonna do this, if Republicans going

868
00:46:03,840 --> 00:46:06,920
Speaker 3: to go this way and go up against against a

869
00:46:07,040 --> 00:46:13,120
Speaker 3: process that is costly, painful, desperate of families who are hurting,

870
00:46:13,200 --> 00:46:15,040
Speaker 3: desperate to have a child, if you guys want to

871
00:46:15,080 --> 00:46:17,200
Speaker 3: go that way, have at it. Enjoy.

872
00:46:17,520 --> 00:46:19,480
Speaker 1: Can I just ask you a question about this, because

873
00:46:19,520 --> 00:46:22,319
Speaker 1: you actually know about the dark arts here. I just

874
00:46:22,360 --> 00:46:25,359
Speaker 1: remember from when I got IVF because we had these

875
00:46:25,400 --> 00:46:27,960
Speaker 1: two children made in a lab in New Jersey because

876
00:46:28,000 --> 00:46:30,680
Speaker 1: we carried a Jewish genetic disease. When I was there,

877
00:46:30,840 --> 00:46:33,839
Speaker 1: I was like, this doctor's office is so fucking fancy.

878
00:46:34,160 --> 00:46:38,240
Speaker 1: They have fancy magazines, they have fancy coffee, they have fancy, fancy, fancy,

879
00:46:38,520 --> 00:46:41,280
Speaker 1: And I thought to myself, these doctors make a ton

880
00:46:41,360 --> 00:46:41,920
Speaker 1: of money.

881
00:46:42,160 --> 00:46:43,719
Speaker 2: So let me just ask you.

882
00:46:43,960 --> 00:46:46,560
Speaker 1: We don't have tort reform, right, we don't have tort

883
00:46:46,600 --> 00:46:47,759
Speaker 1: reform because of that.

884
00:46:47,920 --> 00:46:50,160
Speaker 2: Isn't this an enormous lobbying group?

885
00:46:50,400 --> 00:46:53,399
Speaker 1: I mean, aren't these doctors gonna just lobby the hell

886
00:46:53,520 --> 00:46:54,360
Speaker 1: out of Congress.

887
00:46:54,520 --> 00:46:57,000
Speaker 3: It won't take the doctors to do it. Moly, It'll

888
00:46:57,040 --> 00:46:59,239
Speaker 3: be the families. It'll be the people who. I mean, look,

889
00:46:59,320 --> 00:47:01,880
Speaker 3: I had a long talk with a friend who has

890
00:47:02,000 --> 00:47:04,799
Speaker 3: also done IVF the other day, and this is somebody

891
00:47:04,840 --> 00:47:10,279
Speaker 3: who's not incredibly political, and she's like, I am furious.

892
00:47:10,600 --> 00:47:13,480
Speaker 3: She said, two kids through IVF and it was painful

893
00:47:13,520 --> 00:47:16,120
Speaker 3: and costly and hard. And these are not people who

894
00:47:16,160 --> 00:47:18,719
Speaker 3: are super wealthy either, and they had to like, you know,

895
00:47:18,840 --> 00:47:21,400
Speaker 3: second mortgage on their house to do this thing, and

896
00:47:21,440 --> 00:47:24,120
Speaker 3: they were desperate for children. And it's like, do they

897
00:47:24,160 --> 00:47:27,120
Speaker 3: know how many of us there are? And they clearly don't.

898
00:47:27,440 --> 00:47:31,280
Speaker 3: They clearly don't. I think it's really an interesting moment

899
00:47:31,440 --> 00:47:35,400
Speaker 3: right now of just how broken brained the Republican Party

900
00:47:35,480 --> 00:47:38,239
Speaker 3: is to think that this is a winning issue for them.

901
00:47:38,360 --> 00:47:40,319
Speaker 3: I mean, look, they sent out a Polton memo last

902
00:47:40,320 --> 00:47:42,920
Speaker 3: week to their members saying don't do this, don't say this,

903
00:47:43,400 --> 00:47:45,920
Speaker 3: But that didn't stop Mema and the rest of these

904
00:47:45,920 --> 00:47:48,920
Speaker 3: weirdos from leaping into the deep end of the pool.

905
00:47:49,160 --> 00:47:51,719
Speaker 1: It is amazing, though, And that is a really good point.

906
00:47:51,800 --> 00:47:53,920
Speaker 1: And I also think, like the other thing we're going

907
00:47:53,960 --> 00:47:56,279
Speaker 1: to see and we're seeing in an Oklahoma already as

908
00:47:56,320 --> 00:47:58,840
Speaker 1: they're coming after Iud's why.

909
00:47:58,640 --> 00:48:00,960
Speaker 3: Do you Dieud Molly kind of tramp.

910
00:48:01,400 --> 00:48:03,920
Speaker 2: You know, that's basically the fucking message.

911
00:48:04,280 --> 00:48:04,480
Speaker 6: You know.

912
00:48:04,840 --> 00:48:07,080
Speaker 1: I feel like this is like it reminds me of

913
00:48:07,120 --> 00:48:10,080
Speaker 1: Tip or Gore coming after a pornography. It's like, this

914
00:48:10,160 --> 00:48:13,360
Speaker 1: is such a loser, and I look forward to you

915
00:48:13,520 --> 00:48:14,239
Speaker 1: losing on it.

916
00:48:14,600 --> 00:48:16,239
Speaker 3: I really want them if they want to go all

917
00:48:16,280 --> 00:48:17,719
Speaker 3: the way, go all the way, you know. And then

918
00:48:17,760 --> 00:48:21,000
Speaker 3: again we've joked about or talked about eventually, you know,

919
00:48:21,040 --> 00:48:23,000
Speaker 3: it's like, oh, you can't divorce your husband while you're

920
00:48:23,000 --> 00:48:26,160
Speaker 3: a pregnant little lady. You're not thinking clearly, why do

921
00:48:26,200 --> 00:48:29,040
Speaker 3: you need a check book? Honey? The whole thing inevitably

922
00:48:29,080 --> 00:48:33,319
Speaker 3: grinds down to this roaring, insane hatred of women. That's

923
00:48:33,360 --> 00:48:35,760
Speaker 3: my moment of thuckery, and we shared a moment of thuckery.

924
00:48:35,920 --> 00:48:39,600
Speaker 3: We'll see you all this week on Wednesday in New

925
00:48:39,680 --> 00:48:43,040
Speaker 3: York City at the City Watery if you can still

926
00:48:43,040 --> 00:48:46,640
Speaker 3: get a ticket, which you probably can't. About ten left,

927
00:48:47,040 --> 00:48:48,520
Speaker 3: ten left, get on it.

928
00:48:49,560 --> 00:48:52,920
Speaker 1: That's it for this episode of Fast Politics. Tune in

929
00:48:52,960 --> 00:48:56,200
Speaker 1: every Monday, Wednesday and Friday to hear the best minds

930
00:48:56,200 --> 00:48:59,400
Speaker 1: in politics makes sense of all this chaos. If you

931
00:48:59,520 --> 00:49:02,360
Speaker 1: enjoyed well heard, please send it to a friend and

932
00:49:02,480 --> 00:49:05,840
Speaker 1: keep the conversation going. And again thanks for listening.