Speaker 1: Last time on ear witness.
Speaker 2: You are in a position now to be one of
Speaker 2: two things.
Speaker 3: Okay, you can either be a witness or you can
Speaker 3: be a defendant.
Speaker 4: Ar Dregus was in his wheelchair sitting there, and he
Speaker 4: looked at me and he said, listen, I'm not gonna
Speaker 4: lie for anybody.
Speaker 5: I would.
Speaker 4: Happy to give to Forrest up in a heartbeat, except
Speaker 4: it would be a lie, and I'm not gonna lie.
Speaker 4: I said, all right, well, they're going to wheel you
Speaker 4: to jail and they're gonna charge you with capital murder,
Speaker 4: which is definitely offense. And he goes, I wasn't there,
Speaker 4: tell him to take me to jail, and they did.
Speaker 6: Charged with capital murder of a law enforcement officer. Our
Speaker 6: twenty two year old toward Forrest Johnson, twenty one year
Speaker 6: old Our dragons Ford, twenty three year old oh Man Berrier,
Speaker 6: and twenty one year old Quinn tes Wilson. They are
Speaker 6: held without bond.
Speaker 3: Evidence wise, well, we had visually no evidence. We had
Speaker 3: the word of a fifteen year old who told lies,
Speaker 3: a lot of.
Speaker 5: Lies atlie outline a flat.
Speaker 3: We had this table empty, wasn't nothing on it, and
Speaker 3: we were still trying to try the case, and we
Speaker 3: were like, man, what we gonna do, How We're gonna
Speaker 3: win this.
Speaker 1: It's nineteen ninety seven, two years after Deputy Bill Hardy
Speaker 1: was killed to Forrest Johnson and Ardregis Ford are headed
Speaker 1: to trial for the murder, and so far, the only
Speaker 1: evidence the state has presented connecting them to the crime
Speaker 1: is the changing story of Yolanda Chambers. But there was
Speaker 1: something else, something detectives had known about for two years,
Speaker 1: something they kept quiet until now.
Speaker 2: This is sorry to Tom Salter, Jefson County Sheriff's Deparma,
Speaker 2: President of the Room, or sorry to Tony Richson and
Speaker 2: missus Violet Ellison and her daughter, Katrina Ellison.
Speaker 1: Violet Ellison, a fifty three year old black woman, and
Speaker 1: her sixteen year old daughter Katrina, met with detectives Tony
Speaker 1: Richardson and Tom Salter at the Sheriff's office. Violet Ellison,
Speaker 1: who knew Deputy Hardy, came forward a few weeks after
Speaker 1: Hardy's murder. She called investigators seven days after the governor
Speaker 1: announced an additional ten moth one thousand dollars for information,
Speaker 1: bringing the total reward offered in the case to twenty
Speaker 1: thousand dollars. Her recorded interview with detectives is less than
Speaker 1: seven minutes long.
Speaker 2: This Ellison, would you tell us about the information that
Speaker 2: you have for us.
Speaker 7: You got a name Fred, I'm not sure of his
Speaker 7: last name. Call my daughter Katrina Ellison.
Speaker 1: Violet Ellison says some guys in the jail were asking
Speaker 1: Katrina to make three way calls for them so they'd
Speaker 1: only have to pay for the original call to Katrina.
Speaker 1: They didn't want to keep feeding quarters into the payphone.
Speaker 1: One of those guys was named Fred, and.
Speaker 7: He asked my daughter to use her three way to
Speaker 7: call for his homeboy, and he named his fellow's name
Speaker 7: is Tamars Johnson.
Speaker 1: Violet Ellison says her daughter dialed the number of a
Speaker 1: girl named Daisy to create a three way call. In
Speaker 1: the jail, Fred handed the phone to to Forest so
Speaker 1: that he could talk to Daisy back in the Ellison house.
Speaker 1: Once Katrina heard the three way call go through, she
Speaker 1: put the phone down and walked away, but her mom,
Speaker 1: Violet Ellison, picked it up and listened in.
Speaker 2: He said that on the night of the.
Speaker 4: Ancident.
Speaker 1: Violet Ellison tells detectives that she heard to Forest Johnson
Speaker 1: telling Daisy what happened the night of Deputy Bill Hardy's murder.
Speaker 1: I've listened to this recording over a dozen times and
Speaker 1: it's not easy to follow, but in summary, Violet says
Speaker 1: that to Forest described following a man. They planned to
Speaker 1: rob a man.
Speaker 7: And they had been following this man.
Speaker 1: This man had a girl with him, and the girl
Speaker 1: had a gun gone a shot was fired.
Speaker 7: It was one shot that was fired.
Speaker 1: And Deputy Hardy heard the commotion and came out to investigate, investigate.
Speaker 7: And that's when uh Tavars Johnson shot one time and
Speaker 7: he named.
Speaker 6: Another guy, which was.
Speaker 7: C who qu quin to your tass both.
Speaker 1: Of them shot, She says she overheard to Forrest Johnson
Speaker 1: say that he and quint Has Wilson each fired one
Speaker 1: shot at Deputy Hardy. At this point, quint Has Wilson
Speaker 1: was also in jail, charged with Hardy's murder. The story
Speaker 1: Violet Ellison tells police is disjointed. There are a lot
Speaker 1: of details that are similar to the facts about the
Speaker 1: case that were reported in the news, but others that
Speaker 1: don't fit the evidence at the crime scene, and after
Speaker 1: less than seven minutes, detectives say they have no further
Speaker 1: questions for Violet Ellison and her daughter.
Speaker 2: That makes a lot of sense.
Speaker 5: Do you think they say that you agreed?
Speaker 8: Okay?
Speaker 1: Two years after Violet Ellison first comes to police, the
Speaker 1: state is preparing to put ardregas Ford and to Forrest
Speaker 1: Johnson on trial. But Yolanda Chambers is falling apart. She's
Speaker 1: recanted her testimony under oath, and she doesn't always show
Speaker 1: up to court when she's supposed to be there. It's then,
Speaker 1: in their time of need two years later, that detectives
Speaker 1: suddenly remember Violet Ellison's statements.
Speaker 3: BALI, that was k marking that door. You stand up
Speaker 3: on this day, Lin and say what she said. We
Speaker 3: got a full table. Now we got all the evidence
Speaker 3: we need. Well, not that we need. We'd like to
Speaker 3: have a lot more, but we got evenence.
Speaker 1: Violet Ellison would become the state's star witness in the
Speaker 1: trial against Forrest Johnson, and her ear witness testimony would
Speaker 1: be the key evidence linking him to Deputy Hardy's murder.
Speaker 1: But there wouldn't be just one trial for the murder
Speaker 1: of Deputy Hardy, or two or even three. The state
Speaker 1: will pursue four capital murder trials, and at each of
Speaker 1: these four trials, the state will present separate, mutually exclusive
Speaker 1: theories about who pulled the trigger and fired the fatal shots.
Speaker 8: Do you hear my man laugher had my feet sorrows
Speaker 8: dep b.
Speaker 9: Re list.
Speaker 10: In this bad.
Speaker 8: Tears.
Speaker 1: I want to see.
Speaker 8: Revelation. I want to know who you.
Speaker 11: Ah read.
Speaker 8: Desperation.
Speaker 1: I'm Beth Shelburne. This is ear witness, Chapter five. Anybody
Speaker 1: will do if Tony Richardson was initially enthusiastic about Violet
Speaker 1: Ellison's revelations. I can't tell by the investigative file. He
Speaker 1: wrote a report about the meeting he had with her.
Speaker 1: It's just seven sentences long, concluding the conversation concerned the crime.
Speaker 1: That's it. Detectives and prosecutors do not publicly mention Violet
Speaker 1: la or her claims for the next two years. It's
Speaker 1: like they just forgot about her. The most glaring example
Speaker 1: of this, Detective Richardson testifies at a grand jury hearing
Speaker 1: five months after his conversation with Violet Ellison. He says
Speaker 1: under oath that all four men charged with capital murder
Speaker 1: were in the back parking lot of the Crown Sterling
Speaker 1: Suites when Hardy was killed. But he says Omar Berry
Speaker 1: and Ardregis Ford were the shooters. This story is based
Speaker 1: on one of his conversations with Yolanda Chambers, and Detective
Speaker 1: Richardson tells the grand jury there is no doubt that
Speaker 1: Yolanda Chambers is telling us the truth. There is no
Speaker 1: mention of Violet Ellison and til To Forest is on trial,
Speaker 1: but the state puts ardregas Ford on trial.
Speaker 12: First, my grandmother spent everything she had, everything that a
Speaker 12: poor woman had. She spent our money to defend him,
Speaker 12: you know, to get him the you know, best.
Speaker 6: Representation she could.
Speaker 1: Ardregas's cousin, Nicole Blunt Kerksey, comes to my house to
Speaker 1: talk to me about the case. She's wearing a patterned
Speaker 1: dress and cowboy boots. Her hair is pulled back into
Speaker 1: a high bun. For many years, she grew up in
Speaker 1: the same house as ar Dregas. Their mothers are sisters.
Speaker 8: It was a lot of money for.
Speaker 13: A poor family. It really was a lot of My
Speaker 13: grandmother had a lot of money saved back then. Even
Speaker 13: poor people like she didn't spend everything she had. She
Speaker 13: always put money back. She worked for a Union Envelope,
Speaker 13: which was like a factory over in Prett City for years,
Speaker 13: and then she used to wash clothes and clean houses
Speaker 13: for people, and so she just tucked a lot of
Speaker 13: that money. She just tucked it away, and she exhausted
Speaker 13: just about everything to try to get him the representation
Speaker 13: that he needed for that trial, other than my grandmother's money.
Speaker 13: I mean, we had barbecues and just you know, things
Speaker 13: to raise money so that we could pay the attorney.
Speaker 1: Ardregus's mom, Joyce, tells me the same thing. So you
Speaker 1: had to raise some of the money, some of it. Yeah,
Speaker 1: do you remember how much you ended up paying.
Speaker 8: Looks like I don't know, might have been over forty
Speaker 8: thousand or something. It's a lot of money.
Speaker 14: It was.
Speaker 1: Ar Dregus's family hires Richard Jaffey, a renowned defense attorney
Speaker 1: who had represented dozens of people facing the death penalty,
Speaker 1: to Forrest. Johnson's cousin, Antonio Green remembers trying to figure
Speaker 1: out what his family could do to get to Forrest
Speaker 1: the best legal defense available.
Speaker 11: One of the prominent attorneys during that time. Me and
Speaker 11: my uncle went and talked to him about taking this
Speaker 11: case for the fares during that time, and he told
Speaker 11: us it's right, that's in his office. He said, bring
Speaker 11: him a ten thousand dollars retainer and he'll bring our
Speaker 11: love one home. Of course, ten thousand dollars, he might
Speaker 11: well say ten million at that time to me, you know,
Speaker 11: and you know, we just we just didn't have it,
Speaker 11: couldn't do it. Everybody scratching to make it and feed
Speaker 11: the family. And we all understood that because I'm thinking, Okay,
Speaker 11: I got to get a loan, I got to do,
Speaker 11: you know something. But that was what was amazing too
Speaker 11: Bill to fire is he understood that. He was like,
Speaker 11: because don't worry about that. I'm gonna be all right.
Speaker 11: I didn't do this loo That was his old thing.
Speaker 11: They're not gonna lock me up because I didn't do this.
Speaker 1: Judge Alfred Bayhackle appoints two attorneys to represent to forrest
Speaker 1: a sharply dressed, thirty two year old black man named
Speaker 1: Darryl Bender and Erskine mathis a white, middle aged former
Speaker 1: police officer with a thick mustache. In nineteen ninety seven,
Speaker 1: Alabama paid appointed defense attorneys just twenty dollars an hour
Speaker 1: for work outside the courtroom, with a cap of one
Speaker 1: thousand dollars. Most appointed lawyers can't afford to work for free,
Speaker 1: so this very low cap limited how well they could
Speaker 1: prepare for trial. Our Dregis Ford is first to go
Speaker 1: to trial in November of nineteen ninety seven. There's a
Speaker 1: photo of him in the newspaper. He's sitting in his
Speaker 1: wheelchair in court wearing a starched collared shirt and dark blazer.
Speaker 1: The junior prosecutor on the case is a thirty four
Speaker 1: year old black man named Theo Lawson. Jeff Wallace is
Speaker 1: the lead prosecutor. He's tall, white, a commanding figure in
Speaker 1: the court room, forty three years old, twelve years into
Speaker 1: his career.
Speaker 5: I think my reputation was of being a tough prosecutor,
Speaker 5: meaning if I had the case, I pushed it to
Speaker 5: his limits. And I think my reputation might be that
Speaker 5: I was maybe a little too tough. Sometimes I hope
Speaker 5: that's not true, but I'm afraid it might be true.
Speaker 1: Jeff Wallace was assigned to major cases and aggressively sought
Speaker 1: to please his boss, DA David Barr, who was a
Speaker 1: tough on crime leader focused on getting convictions, and this
Speaker 1: case was personal for Jeff Wallace. He knew the victim.
Speaker 5: Every prosecutor who is diligent, works closely with the police,
Speaker 5: and when something happens to one of them, you're not
Speaker 5: one of the boys in blue, as they say, but
Speaker 5: they're your friends. So when this happened to Deputy Hardy,
Speaker 5: he got my attention.
Speaker 1: The trial against ar dregas Ford starts at one fifty
Speaker 1: pm on November fifth. In a short opening statement, the
Speaker 1: prosecution summarizes the crime for the jury, arguing that our
Speaker 1: dragas Ford is guilty of capital murder. They don't mention
Speaker 1: a motive. Afterwards, Jeff Wallace calls the county's chief medical
Speaker 1: examiner to the stand. He explains that Hardy's wounds were
Speaker 1: at an upward angle through his head. Jeff Wallace argues
Speaker 1: this would be consistent with Ardregas firing the shots from
Speaker 1: his wheelchair. Prosecutors also call Yolanda Chambers as a witness,
Speaker 1: even though she recanted her story in court a year ago.
Speaker 1: Since then, she's gone back to saying that she was
Speaker 1: there when Hardy was killed. She now says she saw
Speaker 1: ardregas Ford fire at least one shot. Richard Jaffey. Ardregas's
Speaker 1: lawyer argues that if the hotel witnesses had seen ardregas
Speaker 1: Ford commit the crime. They would have seen this.
Speaker 4: Ardregas Ford wheeling up about thirty feet of an incline
Speaker 4: in his wheelchair, somehow finding an ability to shoot two
Speaker 4: shots into Deputy Hardy, then be wheeled down by someone
Speaker 4: all the way back to their car. The wheelchair would
Speaker 4: have had to been put in there. Ardregas would have
Speaker 4: had to been physically put into the driver's seat. De
Speaker 4: Forrest would have had to have gotten back into the
Speaker 4: passenger seat, and then they would have driven off, and
Speaker 4: that would have taken at least a minute or two minimum.
Speaker 1: Of course, no one at the hotel saw anything like that.
Speaker 4: The only thing they had on ardregas Ford was Yolanda Chambers.
Speaker 1: Jaffe calls witnesses to the stand who saw Ardregis at
Speaker 1: Tea's Place at the same time that Deputy Hardy was shot.
Speaker 4: We didn't call any witnesses other than alibi witnesses.
Speaker 1: The key decision the jury has to make. Do they
Speaker 1: believe Yolanda chambers testimony that ardregas killed Deputy Hardy behind
Speaker 1: the Crown Sterling suites, or do they believe the three
Speaker 1: alibi witnesses who say he was at Teaspace place at
Speaker 1: the same time that Deputy Hardy was murdered. The jury
Speaker 1: votes ten to two to acquit ardregas Ford, but that's
Speaker 1: not enough. Murder trials require a unanimous verdict. Since this
Speaker 1: decision was split, Judge Bayhackle declares a mistrial, but ardregas
Speaker 1: Ford is not set free. The state plans to try
Speaker 1: him a second time. Two weeks later, the first trial,
Speaker 1: again to Forrest Johnson, begins. Here's to Forrest's cousin, Antonio Green.
Speaker 11: I remember me personally myself. I was very optimistic. I
Speaker 11: was very optimistic simply because I knew what they had,
Speaker 11: which was nothing as far as evidence goes. I'm like, okay, well,
Speaker 11: it's just a part of the process. They'll hear the
Speaker 11: evidence or like thereof, and we'll be going home, you know,
Speaker 11: and this is all over. But as the days went on,
Speaker 11: from the first couple of days of the trial, you
Speaker 11: could see a really different environment in the courtroom.
Speaker 1: The only video from the trial I've seen is a
Speaker 1: short TV news clip. It's filmed through a window on
Speaker 1: the courtroom door, and to Forrest looks so young, much
Speaker 1: younger than twenty four. He's clean shaven, baby faced, dressed
Speaker 1: for court in a striped button down shirt and tie
Speaker 1: with a gray blazer. He looks around the courtroom. Maybe
Speaker 1: he's nervous, but then he lights up with a huge
Speaker 1: smile when he sees a family member who comes over
Speaker 1: to speak with him. The state's lead prosecutor, Jeff Wallace,
Speaker 1: gets up in front of the jury. Just two weeks earlier,
Speaker 1: he argued that our Dregis Ford shot Deputy Hardy, but
Speaker 1: now he tells a completely different story. He says that
Speaker 1: to Forrest Johnson shot Hardy. The theory that the shooter
Speaker 1: was seated in a wheelchair is never mentioned, and Yolanda
Speaker 1: Chambers never sets foot in the courtroom. Instead, the prosecution
Speaker 1: tells the jury in opening statements that they will hear
Speaker 1: evidence that will convince them beyond a reasonable doubt that
Speaker 1: to Forrest shot and killed Deputy Hardy. Then Jeff Wallace
Speaker 1: introduces the state's new star witness, Violet Ellison. She tells
Speaker 1: the jury she eavestrong on several three way calls because
Speaker 1: she was concerned about her daughter talking to people at
Speaker 1: the jail, and because she's naturally nosy. She says she
Speaker 1: contacted detectives six days after she listened in on the
Speaker 1: first call because she couldn't sleep after hearing information about
Speaker 1: the murder of Deputy Bill Hardy. On the stand, Violet
Speaker 1: Ellison tells the jury that she overheard to Forrest say
Speaker 1: these words, I shot the fucker in the head, and
Speaker 1: I saw his head go back and he fell, and
Speaker 1: he shouldn't have got in my business messing up my shit.
Speaker 1: There was no mention of I shot the fucker in
Speaker 1: the head or anything like that. And Violet Ellison's original
Speaker 1: recorded statement to police, she did write the statement down
Speaker 1: in notes on the back of an envelope that she
Speaker 1: submitted to police, but she gave them these notes six
Speaker 1: weeks after her first recorded statement On the stand, She
Speaker 1: says she jotted down the notes while she listened in
Speaker 1: on the call between to Forest and Daisy, and then
Speaker 1: copied the notes onto a sheet of paper. But it's
Speaker 1: hard for me to believe that these notes were written
Speaker 1: during the phone call she claims she overheard. For example,
Speaker 1: Violet Ellison is adamant in her testimony that she heard
Speaker 1: to Forest only use his first name, but her notes
Speaker 1: refer to him as Johnson. If she was just writing
Speaker 1: down what she heard while she heard it. Why wouldn't
Speaker 1: she have written to Forest? How would she have known
Speaker 1: his last name? To Forrest's attorneys also say that what
Speaker 1: Violet Ellison heard was just one side of a conversation.
Speaker 1: They say to Forrest was telling Daisy what he was
Speaker 1: accused of doing, not what he did. He was responding
Speaker 1: to her question, why are you in jail? But when
Speaker 1: Darryl Bender questions Violet Ellison, she tells him she's positive
Speaker 1: that Daisy never asked to Forrest why he was in jail.
Speaker 1: But then she also says that she didn't pay any
Speaker 1: attention to Daisy's side of the conversation because she was
Speaker 1: only interested in what to Forest had to say. If
Speaker 1: this feels confusing to you, welcome, I've been trying to
Speaker 1: make this make sense for two years. How can Violet
Speaker 1: Ellison insist that she knows what Daisy did or did
Speaker 1: not say, while also admitting that she only listened to
Speaker 1: one side of the conversation. Antonio Green, to Forrest's cousin,
Speaker 1: remembers watching Violet Ellison on the stand.
Speaker 11: The only evidence supposedly they had against was this ear witness,
Speaker 11: who had never heard him speak before, who had no
Speaker 11: idea who he was, but to sit in there and
Speaker 11: see how the system from you know, the judge, the
Speaker 11: prosecutors and all that pushed that case towards him. I
Speaker 11: mean constantly it was he did it. We got the
Speaker 11: right one. He did it, and forget the evidence, don't
Speaker 11: worry about that. We're just telling you he did it.
Speaker 11: It's pretty much, it's all they had.
Speaker 1: When Violet Ellison finishes testifying, Daisy Williams takes the stand.
Speaker 1: She says to Forrest did not admit to the murder
Speaker 1: on that phone call, and she never heard him say
Speaker 1: the things Violet Ellison claimed to overhear. So Violet Ellison,
Speaker 1: a friend of the victim, says she heard one thing.
Speaker 1: Daisy Williams, a friend of the accused, says she heard another.
Speaker 1: The case comes down to who the jury will believe.
Speaker 1: After five days of testimony to Forrest's supporters nervously wait
Speaker 1: as the jury begins to deliberate, and once again, the
Speaker 1: jury cannot reach a unanimous decision. Nine jurors vote to convict,
Speaker 1: but three others are not convinced beyond a reasonable doubt.
Speaker 1: The judge declares a mistrial.
Speaker 11: They deliberated and they couldn't come to a verdict, so
Speaker 11: they took him back to kept him locked up and
Speaker 11: immediately pretty much gave had another date for a second trial.
Speaker 1: So there wasn't really any time to celebrate.
Speaker 11: No, no, no, no, it wasn't any of that. And
Speaker 11: then even then I didn't think. I didn't look at
Speaker 11: it as any type of victory, because an innocent man
Speaker 11: should be found innocent.
Speaker 8: Yeah, nice to see you, Jeff.
Speaker 1: I'm at Shelburn.
Speaker 8: You can call me back. Can I call you?
Speaker 9: Jeff?
Speaker 8: Okay? Great.
Speaker 1: Jeff Wallace prosecuted both to Forrest and Ardregis. When I
Speaker 1: emailed him to set up an interview, he asked me
Speaker 1: to meet him at the large Methodist church attends in
Speaker 1: a Birmingham suburb. He's now retired, but spent twenty five
Speaker 1: years as a prosecutor in Jefferson County.
Speaker 6: Beautiful.
Speaker 1: Sure, we record the interview in the church's empty sanctuary.
Speaker 1: He tells me he prefers to do interviews standing up
Speaker 1: because of all of his courtroom experience. So we're standing
Speaker 1: in this sanctuary at the altar, facing each other, having
Speaker 1: this conversation in front of a giant pipe organ. The
Speaker 1: way we're set up, it feels like We're either here
Speaker 1: to debate or get married anyway. This is why the
Speaker 1: recording sounds a little echoey.
Speaker 5: We had a weak case. It's placed on testimony.
Speaker 1: In one witness, Jeff Wallace remembers that the case against
Speaker 1: to Forrest Johnson hinged on the testimony of Violet Ellison.
Speaker 5: That is extremely strong evidence if it's believed. Of course,
Speaker 5: the question becomes, so you believe that evidence? Well, to
Speaker 5: believe that evidence, you have to pleaves Allison. To believe
Speaker 5: miss Ellison, you have to look at the facts how
Speaker 5: she said it happened.
Speaker 1: To Forest's second trial begins eight months after the first
Speaker 1: one ends in a mistrial. Jeff Wallace is the lead prosecutor. Again.
Speaker 1: He calls Violet Ellison to the stand, where she testifies
Speaker 1: that she overheard to Forrest admit to Hardy's murder on
Speaker 1: a three way phone call. Jeff Wallace says Violet Ellison
Speaker 1: listened in on the calls because she was concerned about
Speaker 1: her daughter, and once again, to Forrest's attorneys call Daisy Williams,
Speaker 1: who maintains that to Forest never confessed to the murder.
Speaker 1: To Forest's lawyer, Darryl Bender asks Daisy did he describe
Speaker 1: to you the series of events that he said had occurred. Daisy,
Speaker 1: no bender. Did he tell you where this happened again, Daisy,
Speaker 1: no bender? Did he tell you that he had killed somebody?
Speaker 1: Daisy no, Sir. Jeff Wallace tries to cast doubt on
Speaker 1: Daisy's testimony. He says, maybe Daisy is testifying about a
Speaker 1: different call, or maybe she's just the wrong Daisy. Yet again,
Speaker 1: it's one witnesses word against another. Right before Jeff Wallace
Speaker 1: addresses the jury for closing statements, he picks up a
Speaker 1: piece of evidence, Deputy Hardy's hat, the one that he
Speaker 1: would always wear on duty, the one he was wearing
Speaker 1: when he was shot. It has a bullet hole through
Speaker 1: the brim. Jeff Wallace argues that Violet Ellison heard to
Speaker 1: Forrest Johnson bragging about what he did. Wallace turns to
Speaker 1: the jury and says, let me read you the words,
Speaker 1: his words, not mine. I shot the fucker in the head.
Speaker 1: I saw his head go back and he fell. He
Speaker 1: should never have gotten my business messing up my shit.
Speaker 1: He says these words to the jury like this is
Speaker 1: an on the record statement directly from to Forrest Johnson,
Speaker 1: when it's really Violet Ellison's testimony of what she says
Speaker 1: she overheard however it occurred. Wallace continues, he's proud of
Speaker 1: his role in it, and don't forget that, no matter
Speaker 1: how many shots were fired, he's proud of the one
Speaker 1: he put into Deputy Hardy's head. Here's his respect for
Speaker 1: Bill Hardy. Wallace throws Hardy's hat onto the courtroom floor.
Speaker 1: He's as guilty as they come. Judge Bahackle gives the
Speaker 1: jury instructions to carefully consider all of the evidence. They
Speaker 1: begin deliberations at four twenty five pm on a Friday
Speaker 1: afternoon to Forest's family waits for the verdict.
Speaker 11: He's a defendant, but he's innocent until proven guilty. That
Speaker 11: didn't seem to be the case in the courtroom during
Speaker 11: that time. It was like, you have to go above
Speaker 11: and beyond to prove you're innocent because as a right
Speaker 11: now you're guilty. And that was a a there was
Speaker 11: a dark feeling in there. You couldn't you couldn't get
Speaker 11: around it.
Speaker 1: Two and a half hours later, at seven to ten pm,
Speaker 1: the jurors file back into the courtroom with their decision
Speaker 1: to Forrest. Johnson is found guilty of capital murder Judge
Speaker 1: Bay Hackle schedules the penalty phase for the following Monday.
Speaker 1: This is when the jury will decide to Forrest's fate,
Speaker 1: should he be sent to prison for life without parole
Speaker 1: or put to death for Hardy's murder. The penalty phase
Speaker 1: of a capital murder case represents the highest stakes in
Speaker 1: our criminal justice system. Defense attorneys often call lots of
Speaker 1: witnesses and sometimes spend weeks presenting evidence to try to
Speaker 1: convince the jury to spare their client's life. The penalty
Speaker 1: phase hearing for to Forest Johnson lasts only eighty minutes.
Speaker 1: To Forrest's attorneys call three members of his family to testify.
Speaker 1: When Erskine Mathis asks to Forrest's grandmother, you know what
Speaker 1: we're here for today, she answers, well, yeah, I guess
Speaker 1: not really, though it's clear Mathis and Bender didn't add
Speaker 1: a quickly prepare her for the hearing. On the stand
Speaker 1: to Forrest's mother, Donna cries so hard she can barely
Speaker 1: hold her head up. At one point, Mattha says to her,
Speaker 1: listen to me. Can you raise your head up and
Speaker 1: look at me? Donna Johnson tells the jury through her tears,
Speaker 1: just don't give my baby no electric chair. The final
Speaker 1: witness is to Forrest's cousin, Antonio Green.
Speaker 11: I'm fifty two years old and until the day that's
Speaker 11: probably one of the hardest things I've ever had to do,
Speaker 11: was get on that stand and beg for his life.
Speaker 1: The jury deliberates to Forrest's fate for over five hours.
Speaker 1: In the decision about whether or not to Forest should
Speaker 1: live or die, all of the jurors don't have to agree.
Speaker 1: A unanimous vote is needed for guilt or innocence. But
Speaker 1: but a jury in Alabama can sentence a person to
Speaker 1: death with a majority vote of ten to two, and
Speaker 1: just after five pm they reach a decision with the
Speaker 1: minimum number of votes needed ten to two. The jury
Speaker 1: recommends the death penalty. Judge Alfred Bahackle affirms the recommendation
Speaker 1: that to Forrest Johnson be executed for the murder of
Speaker 1: Deputy Bill Hardy. One newspaper reports that to Forest sat
Speaker 1: motionless as the jury's recommendation was read, appearing to be stunned.
Speaker 1: To Forrest's mother, Donna, screamed no, no, no. To Forrest's
Speaker 1: oldest daughter, Shane, was in the courtroom that day. She
Speaker 1: was six years old at the time.
Speaker 9: And I just kept kind of trying to get his
Speaker 9: attention and blurting out how nice he looked in his suit.
Speaker 9: And so finally the judge kind of had me escorted out.
Speaker 10: Of the courtroom.
Speaker 9: But there's a little small window, and my cousin had
Speaker 9: me on his shoulders. He escorted me out. He had
Speaker 9: me on his shoulders so I could just peek through
Speaker 9: and see my dad through that little small courtroom window
Speaker 9: and ironically stole that was my last memory of him
Speaker 9: in the free world.
Speaker 10: So my thing is this, why didn't the arabnden reach
Speaker 10: out to me?
Speaker 1: To Flores Felanick Sanders aka Queisi, still wonders why to
Speaker 1: Forrest's attorneys didn't call her or Mama Cat to testify
Speaker 1: at his second trial like they did in the first one.
Speaker 10: That makes me feel like we failed them because we
Speaker 10: saw them and we wasn't the only ones, so it's
Speaker 10: like what we said didn't even matter, like they didn't
Speaker 10: take it into consideration.
Speaker 1: Mama Cat and Quisi were important alibi witnesses at his
Speaker 1: first trial who saw him at Tea's place the night
Speaker 1: party was murdered, and their testimony may have created enough
Speaker 1: reasonable doubt to prevent a guilty verdict. Instead, to Forrest's
Speaker 1: attorneys called two other witnesses from Teas, but these witnesses
Speaker 1: didn't seem well prepared and were flustered on the stand.
Speaker 1: I wondered the same about Marshall Kelly Cummings, the Keebler
Speaker 1: cookie guy. Why didn't they call him as a witness
Speaker 1: in the second trial? What he saw out the window,
Speaker 1: one person slowly driving away in a copper colored car
Speaker 1: that contradicted the state's story. But the jury that sentenced
Speaker 1: to Forrest to death never heard from him. The third
Speaker 1: difference between to Forest's first and second trials involves Latania Henderson,
Speaker 1: the friend of Yolanda Chambers, who was in the car
Speaker 1: with to Forest and Ardregis after they left Tea's place. Remember,
Speaker 1: Latania was facing a charge of hindering prosecution. She went
Speaker 1: to jail for five months because she refused to go
Speaker 1: along with Yolanda chambers story. At the time of Taforrest's
Speaker 1: second trial, Latania was still facing this charge when prosecutor
Speaker 1: Jeff Wallace called her as a witness right before the
Speaker 1: jurors were brought into the courtroom. Jeff Wallace told the judge,
Speaker 1: the state wants to secure her testimony, and in that regard,
Speaker 1: we are dismissing her hindering prosecution case. For years, Latania
Speaker 1: said that she didn't know anything about Deputy Hardy's murder,
Speaker 1: and it was only just before she took the stand
Speaker 1: for the prosecution that the state dropped the felony charge
Speaker 1: against her. Poof like magic. When she took the stand,
Speaker 1: Latania stuck to her story that she wasn't there when
Speaker 1: hardy was murdered, that no one in Ardregas's car talked
Speaker 1: about killing anyone, But she did say that she had
Speaker 1: a gun that night, and so did to Forrest. On
Speaker 1: the stand, she said she hid her gun on the
Speaker 1: tire of another car, and that Ardregas Yolanda and to
Speaker 1: Forrest hid the other gun under the dashboard. Police searched
Speaker 1: Ardregas's car after they impounded it. They never found a gun,
Speaker 1: but Latanya's testimony put a gun into Forrest's hand on
Speaker 1: the night of the murder, and this likely stuck with
Speaker 1: the jury and finally to Forest's lawyers called an unexpected witness.
Speaker 14: The thing that happened to me that is the most
Speaker 14: just stunning, is putting Elanda Chambers on the on the
Speaker 14: stand in the defense case.
Speaker 1: Derek Drennan was a young lawyer working with Jaffey on
Speaker 1: Ardregas's case at the time. Both attorneys were paying close
Speaker 1: attention to to Forest's trials. When I first read the
Speaker 1: trial transcript, I wondered, why would the defense call Yolanda
Speaker 1: Chambers to the stand. And Derek had the same question
Speaker 1: as he watched it unfold.
Speaker 14: Why would you call the only person on the planet
Speaker 14: who will testify on her oath that your client was there?
Speaker 14: You know, and lia I mean knowing they're lying about it.
Speaker 1: Yolanda testified that she was at the scene of the
Speaker 1: crime with to Forest, Latanya and Ardregis. She said it
Speaker 1: was Ardregas, not to Forrest who killed Deputy Hardy. But
Speaker 1: still her testimony directly contradicted to Forrest's alibi that he
Speaker 1: was at Teas place.
Speaker 14: They're asking a dury to believe her when she says,
Speaker 14: you know, Johnson didn't shoot Afford it. I don't know
Speaker 14: how that could that could be justified. There's nobody on
Speaker 14: the planet that's going to put your client on that
Speaker 14: parking lot that night except for you. Alana Chambers nobody
Speaker 14: will and to put her up there to say that
Speaker 14: their client was innocent because Ford did. It just beyond me. Yeah,
Speaker 14: that to me is just it's just really inexplicable.
Speaker 1: Prosecutor Jeff Wallace seized on this at trial. In his
Speaker 1: closing statement, he told the jury, if you go back
Speaker 1: in the jury room and decide that Yolanda Chambers ought
Speaker 1: not to have been allowed to testify because she's a
Speaker 1: liar or whatever you might decide about her, that's okay.
Speaker 1: State didn't call her the defense did I want you
Speaker 1: to remember that I called both of to Forrest's original
Speaker 1: trial lawyers to ask about the decisions they made in
Speaker 1: defending to Forest, but neither would sit down with me
Speaker 1: for an interview.
Speaker 11: We forget sometime that there was a third person on
Speaker 11: that phone who told him it discredits what this lady says.
Speaker 11: She heard you know what I mean? And now, how
Speaker 11: much closer can you get than that you're the third
Speaker 11: party in that three way conversation and you say, no,
Speaker 11: that's not what it was.
Speaker 1: I needed to find the person on the other end
Speaker 1: of the phone call that Violet Ellison overheard, the person
Speaker 1: who actually talked to Forest, Daisy Williams. Daisy was nineteen
Speaker 1: when she testified it to Forrest's second trial. She's now
Speaker 1: in her mid forties and has never spoken publicly about
Speaker 1: the case, but she agrees to come to my house
Speaker 1: to talk.
Speaker 8: I'm a mechanic. How did you.
Speaker 1: Get into being a mechanic?
Speaker 8: Into working on carba growing up? I love cars. I
Speaker 8: have a seventy one four at home now that I'm
Speaker 8: trying to restore. I love working all them. I love,
Speaker 8: you know, going to like the car races and everything.
Speaker 1: We settle in on the couch and talk for over
Speaker 1: an hour.
Speaker 8: So Fars is a real good person. He got a
Speaker 8: real good.
Speaker 1: Heart, Daisy tells me to Forrest was friends with her
Speaker 1: two brothers, Charles and Eugene. They used to hang out
Speaker 1: and play basketball when they were growing up in Pratt City,
Speaker 1: and her story about what happened on that phone call
Speaker 1: is consistent. What she tells me more than twenty five
Speaker 1: years later doesn't vary from what she said on the stand.
Speaker 8: My cousin actually called me because he was in the
Speaker 8: county jail at the time.
Speaker 1: And who was that was that?
Speaker 8: Fre Fred Carter?
Speaker 1: Okay, Yeah, So when that initial call came to you.
Speaker 1: I guess Fred had called Katrina, Violet Ellison's daughter and
Speaker 1: then she made the three way call to connect him
Speaker 1: to you. Yes, and then he put to Forrest On,
Speaker 1: is that how it went?
Speaker 8: Yes? He actually, like I said, he told me. He
Speaker 8: was like, yes, who up here with me? And he knew,
Speaker 8: you know, we all grew up in Press City together.
Speaker 8: And he was like to for it's not like for real,
Speaker 8: and he gave Forrest phone, let me talk to him.
Speaker 8: So I'm talking to him, like man, what's going on?
Speaker 8: And he told me I've been accused of, you know,
Speaker 8: killing somebody. And I was like, man, you got a lawyer,
Speaker 8: and he was like yeah, and we left it at that.
Speaker 8: We didn't go no further with that conversation about the
Speaker 8: depth they that share. He said he was accused and
Speaker 8: that's all he said to me.
Speaker 1: Why did the jury believe this woman who eavesdrop on
Speaker 1: the call over you who actually.
Speaker 8: On the call. I don't understand. I never understood that.
Speaker 8: You know, they went on hearsay, They went on, which
Speaker 8: she said she overheard they didn't actually listen to me.
Speaker 8: I was young, so I feel like by me being young,
Speaker 8: they didn't actually listen to me, Oh, well, she's just
Speaker 8: you know, somebody you know knows she probably just saying something,
Speaker 8: and that's how I felt.
Speaker 1: There are two recurring questions that come up when to
Speaker 1: Forest's family and friends talk with me about the case.
Speaker 1: The first, why isn't Violet Ellison's testimony hearsay? Usually something
Speaker 1: that someone overheard is considered hearsay and not admissible as
Speaker 1: evidence in court. To Forest's lawyers tried to argue that
Speaker 1: Violet Ellison's testimony was hearsay to get it thrown out,
Speaker 1: but the judge overruled them. It turned out there is
Speaker 1: an exception to the hearsay rule when someone claims to
Speaker 1: overhear the defendant admitting to the crime. The second isn't
Speaker 1: the jail supposed to record phone calls? According to testimony
Speaker 1: from a jail supervisor, the phones in the Jefferson County
Speaker 1: jail weren't equipped with the ability to record in nineteen
Speaker 1: ninety five. One of the hardest things to comprehend about
Speaker 1: this case is what happens ten months after to Forrest
Speaker 1: Johnson was convicted and sentenced to death. In June of
Speaker 1: nineteen ninety nine, the state once again tries to convict
Speaker 1: Ardregis Ford. Jeff Wallace prosecutes the Hardy case for the
Speaker 1: fourth time. In the States, star witness Yolanda Chambers Violet
Speaker 1: Ellison is never even mentioned, and Wallace presents yet another
Speaker 1: theory of the crime, a fifth theory. At the grand
Speaker 1: jury hearing, the state argued that Ardregas and Omar Barry
Speaker 1: killed Deputy Hardy. Then, at Ardregas's first trial, Jeff Wallace
Speaker 1: said Ardregas was the only person who killed Deputy Hardy.
Speaker 1: Then at to Forrest's first trial a month later, he
Speaker 1: argued that to Forrest was the only shooter. A year later,
Speaker 1: when to Forest was tried a second time, the state
Speaker 1: said to Forrest fired a shot, and so did Quintez Wilson,
Speaker 1: but they said Wilson was not being tried because of
Speaker 1: a lack of evidence. And finally, after to Forrest, Johnson
Speaker 1: was sentenced to death. And after Jeff Wallace characterized Yolanda
Speaker 1: Chambers as a liar, he turns around and uses Yolanda
Speaker 1: as his own star witness against Ardregas Ford. The jury
Speaker 1: in Ardregas's second trial deliberates for less than an hour
Speaker 1: and declares him not guilty. Ardregas is acquitted. I talked
Speaker 1: to his cousin Nicole about that moment. I wonder how
Speaker 1: that made you feel. I mean, did it make you
Speaker 1: feel like the system worked that ar Dregas was acquitted.
Speaker 13: It didn't make me feel like the system work. It
Speaker 13: showed me that Richard Jaffi did a wonderful job defending him.
Speaker 1: Ardregus and to Forrest had the same alibi. Nobody denies
Speaker 1: that they were together the knight Hardy was killed, but
Speaker 1: there was a major difference between their cases. Ardregas's family
Speaker 1: was able to pay for a renowned attorney and to
Speaker 1: Forrest's family wasn't. Meanwhile, prosecutors had a powerful tool at
Speaker 1: their disposal, the ability to use multiple theories to get
Speaker 1: the outcome. They were seeking someone to go down for
Speaker 1: Hardy's murder.
Speaker 4: No prosecutors should be allowed to, in any case, much
Speaker 4: less a death penalty case, to try two different defendants
Speaker 4: for the same crime using a different theory and different
Speaker 4: sets of witnesses, as if they're staging two Broadway plays
Speaker 4: of the same scenario.
Speaker 1: Richard jeffy Ardregus's lawyer, this.
Speaker 4: Case is all about alternative worlds that are in conflict
Speaker 4: with each other. And in conflict with truth, and in
Speaker 4: conflict with what our justice system stands for.
Speaker 1: Arguing inconsistent theories isn't technically illegal, but I mean, come on,
Speaker 1: five different theories. There is no way all five of
Speaker 1: these theories can be true. These theories are mutually exclusive
Speaker 1: in conflict with each other. I ask Jeff Wallace to
Speaker 1: explain how could he argue these mutually exclusive theories against
Speaker 1: two different people for the same crime.
Speaker 5: It's a valid question, but it's not the right question.
Speaker 5: The right question is whether or not we argued something
Speaker 5: that was supported by the evidence in that trial.
Speaker 1: But help me understand how, as a prosecutor you can
Speaker 1: argue that one person is the gunman in the killing
Speaker 1: of a deputy, he's convicted and sentenced to death, and
Speaker 1: then at a subsequent trial argue that another person was
Speaker 1: the shooter.
Speaker 5: Well, it would not be, if I can be hyper technical,
Speaker 5: it would not be the shooter of the sign bullet.
Speaker 1: Jeff Wallace gives me a long winded explanation about how
Speaker 1: two people could be guilty of the same crime if,
Speaker 1: for example, one person shoots a victim and another fires
Speaker 1: a shot, but the bullet flies off into space. Welcome
Speaker 1: but that's not what Jeff Wallace argued at trial.
Speaker 5: Gill's the victim. You don't have to decide which one
Speaker 5: fired the shot or both guilty.
Speaker 1: But the evidence showed that there was only one gun
Speaker 1: and one gunman, right.
Speaker 5: Oh, I don't know if you say that.
Speaker 1: I think that's what the firearms expert testified to he did.
Speaker 1: A firearms examiner looked at the two shell casings found
Speaker 1: at the murder scene and determined they had been fired
Speaker 1: from the same nine milimeters pistol, indicating there was only
Speaker 1: one shooter. I keep pressing him. I want Jeff Wallace
Speaker 1: to tell me how he's squared in his own mind
Speaker 1: these contradictory theories about who fired the fatal shots. Jeff
Speaker 1: and I go round and round. In theory, prosecutors are
Speaker 1: employed to seek the truth. They don't have a mandate
Speaker 1: to obtain convictions. But the law allowed him to do
Speaker 1: what he did. And Jeff Wallace told me himself he
Speaker 1: was known to push a case to its limits.
Speaker 5: I'm afraid that my reputation was that I was fairly
Speaker 5: pan Oh. I tried to follow all the roads, tried
Speaker 5: to do exactly what the boss wanted done, and so
Speaker 5: I tried to follow all orders, and now wish I'd
Speaker 5: been a little more yielding. Sometimes I wish I'd seen
Speaker 5: a little more gray. But I was fairly black and white.
Speaker 6: And.
Speaker 5: I'm afraid I was fairly mean, and I'm not necessarily
Speaker 5: proud of that.
Speaker 1: As to Forrest's family watched their worst nightmare unfold, it
Speaker 1: was clear that he wasn't the only one failed by
Speaker 1: these trials. They also thought about Deputy Bill Hardy and
Speaker 1: his family.
Speaker 11: You know, the victim's family deserved to know what happened
Speaker 11: to their loved one, but they get no justice, no
Speaker 11: peace out of a wrongful conviction, you know. And this
Speaker 11: is simply a case of just anybody all do and
Speaker 11: looking at it from the inside, it seems like the
Speaker 11: whole thing was just put together like a puzzle. All
Speaker 11: this is going on in a court of law that's
Speaker 11: supposed to be the most honest place in our country.
Speaker 1: After he sentenced to death, correctional officers put to Forest
Speaker 1: in a van and drive him two hundred miles south
Speaker 1: of Birmingham. He arrives at Holman Prison and is assigned
Speaker 1: a five y eight cell on death row, where he'll
Speaker 1: spend twenty three hours a day, Roaches crawl everywhere, and
Speaker 1: there's no air conditioning in this sweltering Alabama heat. As
Speaker 1: months go by, to Forrest learns to survive in this
Speaker 1: agonizing space, but he also sees prison guards take men
Speaker 1: from their cells and walk them around the corner to
Speaker 1: the death chamber, and he wonders when they are coming
Speaker 1: for him? Is he next?
Speaker 3: He just started crying and I asked him what was wrong,
Speaker 3: and he said that he had just assumed that they
Speaker 3: could come any minute and take him to be executed.
Speaker 1: That's next time. Ear Witness is a production of Lava
Speaker 1: for Good Podcasts in association with Signal Company Number One.
Speaker 1: Executive producers are Jason Flom, Jeff Kempler, Kevin Wardis, and
Speaker 1: me Beth Shelburn. The investigative reporting for this series was
Speaker 1: done by Me and Mara McNamara. Producers are MARAA. McNamara,
Speaker 1: Hannah Bial and Jackie Pawley. Kara Kornhaber is our senior producer.
Speaker 1: Britt Spangler is our sound designer. Additional story editing from
Speaker 1: Marie Sutton, fact check help from Katherine Newhan, and special
Speaker 1: thanks to to Forrest Johnson's legal defense team. You can
Speaker 1: follow the show on Instagram, TikTok, Facebook, and Twitter at
Speaker 1: Lava for Good. To see behind the scenes content from
Speaker 1: our investigation, visit Lava for Good dot com slash earwitness