1 00:00:12,320 --> 00:00:15,400 Speaker 1: Last time on ear witness. 2 00:00:15,800 --> 00:00:17,759 Speaker 2: You are in a position now to be one of 3 00:00:17,800 --> 00:00:18,400 Speaker 2: two things. 4 00:00:18,440 --> 00:00:22,600 Speaker 3: Okay, you can either be a witness or you can 5 00:00:22,640 --> 00:00:23,560 Speaker 3: be a defendant. 6 00:00:25,040 --> 00:00:28,360 Speaker 4: Ar Dregus was in his wheelchair sitting there, and he 7 00:00:28,640 --> 00:00:31,720 Speaker 4: looked at me and he said, listen, I'm not gonna 8 00:00:31,760 --> 00:00:32,760 Speaker 4: lie for anybody. 9 00:00:33,640 --> 00:00:34,199 Speaker 5: I would. 10 00:00:35,479 --> 00:00:38,720 Speaker 4: Happy to give to Forrest up in a heartbeat, except 11 00:00:38,800 --> 00:00:40,560 Speaker 4: it would be a lie, and I'm not gonna lie. 12 00:00:41,200 --> 00:00:42,760 Speaker 4: I said, all right, well, they're going to wheel you 13 00:00:42,800 --> 00:00:45,240 Speaker 4: to jail and they're gonna charge you with capital murder, 14 00:00:45,280 --> 00:00:49,120 Speaker 4: which is definitely offense. And he goes, I wasn't there, 15 00:00:49,240 --> 00:00:51,720 Speaker 4: tell him to take me to jail, and they did. 16 00:00:53,159 --> 00:00:56,480 Speaker 6: Charged with capital murder of a law enforcement officer. Our 17 00:00:56,560 --> 00:00:59,720 Speaker 6: twenty two year old toward Forrest Johnson, twenty one year 18 00:00:59,760 --> 00:01:03,480 Speaker 6: old Our dragons Ford, twenty three year old oh Man Berrier, 19 00:01:03,520 --> 00:01:06,440 Speaker 6: and twenty one year old Quinn tes Wilson. They are 20 00:01:06,480 --> 00:01:07,480 Speaker 6: held without bond. 21 00:01:09,880 --> 00:01:14,880 Speaker 3: Evidence wise, well, we had visually no evidence. We had 22 00:01:15,280 --> 00:01:20,280 Speaker 3: the word of a fifteen year old who told lies, 23 00:01:21,000 --> 00:01:21,560 Speaker 3: a lot of. 24 00:01:21,560 --> 00:01:24,360 Speaker 5: Lies atlie outline a flat. 25 00:01:25,120 --> 00:01:28,800 Speaker 3: We had this table empty, wasn't nothing on it, and 26 00:01:28,840 --> 00:01:31,120 Speaker 3: we were still trying to try the case, and we 27 00:01:31,120 --> 00:01:33,320 Speaker 3: were like, man, what we gonna do, How We're gonna 28 00:01:33,319 --> 00:01:33,600 Speaker 3: win this. 29 00:01:50,520 --> 00:01:55,120 Speaker 1: It's nineteen ninety seven, two years after Deputy Bill Hardy 30 00:01:55,240 --> 00:01:59,840 Speaker 1: was killed to Forrest Johnson and Ardregis Ford are headed 31 00:01:59,840 --> 00:02:03,520 Speaker 1: to trial for the murder, and so far, the only 32 00:02:03,600 --> 00:02:06,760 Speaker 1: evidence the state has presented connecting them to the crime 33 00:02:07,520 --> 00:02:12,000 Speaker 1: is the changing story of Yolanda Chambers. But there was 34 00:02:12,280 --> 00:02:18,000 Speaker 1: something else, something detectives had known about for two years, 35 00:02:18,040 --> 00:02:21,680 Speaker 1: something they kept quiet until now. 36 00:02:22,800 --> 00:02:25,600 Speaker 2: This is sorry to Tom Salter, Jefson County Sheriff's Deparma, 37 00:02:26,320 --> 00:02:30,080 Speaker 2: President of the Room, or sorry to Tony Richson and 38 00:02:30,200 --> 00:02:35,119 Speaker 2: missus Violet Ellison and her daughter, Katrina Ellison. 39 00:02:36,280 --> 00:02:39,840 Speaker 1: Violet Ellison, a fifty three year old black woman, and 40 00:02:39,919 --> 00:02:43,840 Speaker 1: her sixteen year old daughter Katrina, met with detectives Tony 41 00:02:43,960 --> 00:02:48,799 Speaker 1: Richardson and Tom Salter at the Sheriff's office. Violet Ellison, 42 00:02:49,120 --> 00:02:53,440 Speaker 1: who knew Deputy Hardy, came forward a few weeks after 43 00:02:53,639 --> 00:02:58,440 Speaker 1: Hardy's murder. She called investigators seven days after the governor 44 00:02:58,480 --> 00:03:01,960 Speaker 1: announced an additional ten moth one thousand dollars for information, 45 00:03:02,760 --> 00:03:06,480 Speaker 1: bringing the total reward offered in the case to twenty 46 00:03:06,520 --> 00:03:11,359 Speaker 1: thousand dollars. Her recorded interview with detectives is less than 47 00:03:11,400 --> 00:03:12,440 Speaker 1: seven minutes long. 48 00:03:14,000 --> 00:03:16,880 Speaker 2: This Ellison, would you tell us about the information that 49 00:03:16,919 --> 00:03:18,200 Speaker 2: you have for us. 50 00:03:20,960 --> 00:03:22,800 Speaker 7: You got a name Fred, I'm not sure of his 51 00:03:22,919 --> 00:03:25,840 Speaker 7: last name. Call my daughter Katrina Ellison. 52 00:03:27,280 --> 00:03:30,880 Speaker 1: Violet Ellison says some guys in the jail were asking 53 00:03:30,960 --> 00:03:34,000 Speaker 1: Katrina to make three way calls for them so they'd 54 00:03:34,000 --> 00:03:37,000 Speaker 1: only have to pay for the original call to Katrina. 55 00:03:37,640 --> 00:03:41,160 Speaker 1: They didn't want to keep feeding quarters into the payphone. 56 00:03:41,400 --> 00:03:44,600 Speaker 1: One of those guys was named Fred, and. 57 00:03:44,640 --> 00:03:49,120 Speaker 7: He asked my daughter to use her three way to 58 00:03:49,240 --> 00:03:52,320 Speaker 7: call for his homeboy, and he named his fellow's name 59 00:03:52,480 --> 00:03:53,760 Speaker 7: is Tamars Johnson. 60 00:03:54,960 --> 00:03:58,000 Speaker 1: Violet Ellison says her daughter dialed the number of a 61 00:03:58,040 --> 00:04:02,240 Speaker 1: girl named Daisy to create a three way call. In 62 00:04:02,360 --> 00:04:05,960 Speaker 1: the jail, Fred handed the phone to to Forest so 63 00:04:06,040 --> 00:04:10,160 Speaker 1: that he could talk to Daisy back in the Ellison house. 64 00:04:10,720 --> 00:04:14,080 Speaker 1: Once Katrina heard the three way call go through, she 65 00:04:14,200 --> 00:04:17,400 Speaker 1: put the phone down and walked away, but her mom, 66 00:04:17,800 --> 00:04:20,800 Speaker 1: Violet Ellison, picked it up and listened in. 67 00:04:21,320 --> 00:04:24,320 Speaker 2: He said that on the night of the. 68 00:04:25,800 --> 00:04:26,320 Speaker 4: Ancident. 69 00:04:27,240 --> 00:04:31,680 Speaker 1: Violet Ellison tells detectives that she heard to Forest Johnson 70 00:04:31,880 --> 00:04:35,960 Speaker 1: telling Daisy what happened the night of Deputy Bill Hardy's murder. 71 00:04:37,240 --> 00:04:41,000 Speaker 1: I've listened to this recording over a dozen times and 72 00:04:41,720 --> 00:04:46,279 Speaker 1: it's not easy to follow, but in summary, Violet says 73 00:04:46,320 --> 00:04:50,560 Speaker 1: that to Forest described following a man. They planned to 74 00:04:50,760 --> 00:04:53,080 Speaker 1: rob a man. 75 00:04:53,400 --> 00:04:55,640 Speaker 7: And they had been following this man. 76 00:04:56,000 --> 00:04:58,520 Speaker 1: This man had a girl with him, and the girl 77 00:04:58,640 --> 00:05:02,400 Speaker 1: had a gun gone a shot was fired. 78 00:05:02,720 --> 00:05:05,040 Speaker 7: It was one shot that was fired. 79 00:05:05,200 --> 00:05:10,360 Speaker 1: And Deputy Hardy heard the commotion and came out to investigate, investigate. 80 00:05:10,560 --> 00:05:18,640 Speaker 7: And that's when uh Tavars Johnson shot one time and 81 00:05:18,880 --> 00:05:19,720 Speaker 7: he named. 82 00:05:19,480 --> 00:05:20,880 Speaker 6: Another guy, which was. 83 00:05:23,120 --> 00:05:28,880 Speaker 7: C who qu quin to your tass both. 84 00:05:28,600 --> 00:05:33,960 Speaker 1: Of them shot, She says she overheard to Forrest Johnson 85 00:05:34,400 --> 00:05:38,240 Speaker 1: say that he and quint Has Wilson each fired one 86 00:05:38,360 --> 00:05:42,920 Speaker 1: shot at Deputy Hardy. At this point, quint Has Wilson 87 00:05:43,040 --> 00:05:47,560 Speaker 1: was also in jail, charged with Hardy's murder. The story 88 00:05:47,640 --> 00:05:51,880 Speaker 1: Violet Ellison tells police is disjointed. There are a lot 89 00:05:51,920 --> 00:05:54,880 Speaker 1: of details that are similar to the facts about the 90 00:05:54,920 --> 00:05:58,720 Speaker 1: case that were reported in the news, but others that 91 00:05:58,880 --> 00:06:02,800 Speaker 1: don't fit the evidence at the crime scene, and after 92 00:06:02,920 --> 00:06:06,719 Speaker 1: less than seven minutes, detectives say they have no further 93 00:06:06,880 --> 00:06:09,359 Speaker 1: questions for Violet Ellison and her daughter. 94 00:06:09,600 --> 00:06:10,760 Speaker 2: That makes a lot of sense. 95 00:06:11,760 --> 00:06:14,640 Speaker 5: Do you think they say that you agreed? 96 00:06:15,360 --> 00:06:15,640 Speaker 8: Okay? 97 00:06:24,600 --> 00:06:28,680 Speaker 1: Two years after Violet Ellison first comes to police, the 98 00:06:28,800 --> 00:06:32,000 Speaker 1: state is preparing to put ardregas Ford and to Forrest 99 00:06:32,080 --> 00:06:37,480 Speaker 1: Johnson on trial. But Yolanda Chambers is falling apart. She's 100 00:06:37,560 --> 00:06:41,480 Speaker 1: recanted her testimony under oath, and she doesn't always show 101 00:06:41,560 --> 00:06:45,400 Speaker 1: up to court when she's supposed to be there. It's then, 102 00:06:46,000 --> 00:06:51,040 Speaker 1: in their time of need two years later, that detectives 103 00:06:51,240 --> 00:06:54,120 Speaker 1: suddenly remember Violet Ellison's statements. 104 00:06:55,600 --> 00:06:57,839 Speaker 3: BALI, that was k marking that door. You stand up 105 00:06:57,880 --> 00:07:00,719 Speaker 3: on this day, Lin and say what she said. We 106 00:07:00,800 --> 00:07:04,240 Speaker 3: got a full table. Now we got all the evidence 107 00:07:04,320 --> 00:07:07,960 Speaker 3: we need. Well, not that we need. We'd like to 108 00:07:07,960 --> 00:07:10,080 Speaker 3: have a lot more, but we got evenence. 109 00:07:12,600 --> 00:07:16,280 Speaker 1: Violet Ellison would become the state's star witness in the 110 00:07:16,360 --> 00:07:21,080 Speaker 1: trial against Forrest Johnson, and her ear witness testimony would 111 00:07:21,120 --> 00:07:25,239 Speaker 1: be the key evidence linking him to Deputy Hardy's murder. 112 00:07:26,280 --> 00:07:28,800 Speaker 1: But there wouldn't be just one trial for the murder 113 00:07:28,840 --> 00:07:34,440 Speaker 1: of Deputy Hardy, or two or even three. The state 114 00:07:34,560 --> 00:07:39,560 Speaker 1: will pursue four capital murder trials, and at each of 115 00:07:39,640 --> 00:07:44,680 Speaker 1: these four trials, the state will present separate, mutually exclusive 116 00:07:44,720 --> 00:08:09,920 Speaker 1: theories about who pulled the trigger and fired the fatal shots. 117 00:08:12,280 --> 00:08:29,160 Speaker 8: Do you hear my man laugher had my feet sorrows 118 00:08:29,520 --> 00:08:30,520 Speaker 8: dep b. 119 00:08:31,320 --> 00:08:32,440 Speaker 9: Re list. 120 00:08:34,640 --> 00:08:35,800 Speaker 10: In this bad. 121 00:08:39,400 --> 00:08:41,840 Speaker 8: Tears. 122 00:08:43,240 --> 00:08:45,400 Speaker 1: I want to see. 123 00:08:47,120 --> 00:08:54,160 Speaker 8: Revelation. I want to know who you. 124 00:08:58,120 --> 00:08:59,520 Speaker 11: Ah read. 125 00:09:03,880 --> 00:09:04,760 Speaker 8: Desperation. 126 00:09:25,120 --> 00:09:30,640 Speaker 1: I'm Beth Shelburne. This is ear witness, Chapter five. Anybody 127 00:09:30,679 --> 00:09:38,440 Speaker 1: will do if Tony Richardson was initially enthusiastic about Violet 128 00:09:38,480 --> 00:09:43,680 Speaker 1: Ellison's revelations. I can't tell by the investigative file. He 129 00:09:43,760 --> 00:09:46,120 Speaker 1: wrote a report about the meeting he had with her. 130 00:09:46,720 --> 00:09:53,000 Speaker 1: It's just seven sentences long, concluding the conversation concerned the crime. 131 00:09:53,880 --> 00:09:59,720 Speaker 1: That's it. Detectives and prosecutors do not publicly mention Violet 132 00:09:59,840 --> 00:10:04,120 Speaker 1: la or her claims for the next two years. It's 133 00:10:04,200 --> 00:10:09,160 Speaker 1: like they just forgot about her. The most glaring example 134 00:10:09,200 --> 00:10:15,240 Speaker 1: of this, Detective Richardson testifies at a grand jury hearing 135 00:10:15,480 --> 00:10:19,959 Speaker 1: five months after his conversation with Violet Ellison. He says 136 00:10:20,160 --> 00:10:24,080 Speaker 1: under oath that all four men charged with capital murder 137 00:10:24,280 --> 00:10:26,760 Speaker 1: were in the back parking lot of the Crown Sterling 138 00:10:26,800 --> 00:10:31,440 Speaker 1: Suites when Hardy was killed. But he says Omar Berry 139 00:10:31,840 --> 00:10:40,440 Speaker 1: and Ardregis Ford were the shooters. This story is based 140 00:10:40,480 --> 00:10:44,840 Speaker 1: on one of his conversations with Yolanda Chambers, and Detective 141 00:10:44,920 --> 00:10:49,480 Speaker 1: Richardson tells the grand jury there is no doubt that 142 00:10:49,600 --> 00:10:55,160 Speaker 1: Yolanda Chambers is telling us the truth. There is no 143 00:10:55,360 --> 00:10:59,040 Speaker 1: mention of Violet Ellison and til To Forest is on trial, 144 00:11:11,400 --> 00:11:14,360 Speaker 1: but the state puts ardregas Ford on trial. 145 00:11:14,440 --> 00:11:20,960 Speaker 12: First, my grandmother spent everything she had, everything that a 146 00:11:21,000 --> 00:11:25,280 Speaker 12: poor woman had. She spent our money to defend him, 147 00:11:25,320 --> 00:11:27,400 Speaker 12: you know, to get him the you know, best. 148 00:11:27,200 --> 00:11:28,360 Speaker 6: Representation she could. 149 00:11:29,360 --> 00:11:33,680 Speaker 1: Ardregas's cousin, Nicole Blunt Kerksey, comes to my house to 150 00:11:33,760 --> 00:11:36,960 Speaker 1: talk to me about the case. She's wearing a patterned 151 00:11:37,080 --> 00:11:40,720 Speaker 1: dress and cowboy boots. Her hair is pulled back into 152 00:11:40,760 --> 00:11:44,680 Speaker 1: a high bun. For many years, she grew up in 153 00:11:44,720 --> 00:11:48,600 Speaker 1: the same house as ar Dregas. Their mothers are sisters. 154 00:11:49,360 --> 00:11:50,480 Speaker 8: It was a lot of money for. 155 00:11:50,440 --> 00:11:52,960 Speaker 13: A poor family. It really was a lot of My 156 00:11:53,040 --> 00:11:56,600 Speaker 13: grandmother had a lot of money saved back then. Even 157 00:11:56,679 --> 00:11:58,760 Speaker 13: poor people like she didn't spend everything she had. She 158 00:11:58,800 --> 00:12:02,040 Speaker 13: always put money back. She worked for a Union Envelope, 159 00:12:02,160 --> 00:12:06,520 Speaker 13: which was like a factory over in Prett City for years, 160 00:12:07,080 --> 00:12:11,480 Speaker 13: and then she used to wash clothes and clean houses 161 00:12:11,559 --> 00:12:14,560 Speaker 13: for people, and so she just tucked a lot of 162 00:12:14,600 --> 00:12:18,000 Speaker 13: that money. She just tucked it away, and she exhausted 163 00:12:18,120 --> 00:12:22,000 Speaker 13: just about everything to try to get him the representation 164 00:12:22,120 --> 00:12:25,800 Speaker 13: that he needed for that trial, other than my grandmother's money. 165 00:12:25,800 --> 00:12:29,319 Speaker 13: I mean, we had barbecues and just you know, things 166 00:12:29,360 --> 00:12:33,040 Speaker 13: to raise money so that we could pay the attorney. 167 00:12:34,160 --> 00:12:38,320 Speaker 1: Ardregus's mom, Joyce, tells me the same thing. So you 168 00:12:38,400 --> 00:12:41,479 Speaker 1: had to raise some of the money, some of it. Yeah, 169 00:12:41,920 --> 00:12:44,240 Speaker 1: do you remember how much you ended up paying. 170 00:12:46,840 --> 00:12:52,079 Speaker 8: Looks like I don't know, might have been over forty 171 00:12:52,120 --> 00:12:57,520 Speaker 8: thousand or something. It's a lot of money. 172 00:12:57,760 --> 00:12:58,360 Speaker 14: It was. 173 00:13:00,160 --> 00:13:04,800 Speaker 1: Ar Dregus's family hires Richard Jaffey, a renowned defense attorney 174 00:13:04,880 --> 00:13:09,240 Speaker 1: who had represented dozens of people facing the death penalty, 175 00:13:09,600 --> 00:13:14,200 Speaker 1: to Forrest. Johnson's cousin, Antonio Green remembers trying to figure 176 00:13:14,240 --> 00:13:17,240 Speaker 1: out what his family could do to get to Forrest 177 00:13:17,600 --> 00:13:19,439 Speaker 1: the best legal defense available. 178 00:13:20,440 --> 00:13:24,520 Speaker 11: One of the prominent attorneys during that time. Me and 179 00:13:24,559 --> 00:13:27,120 Speaker 11: my uncle went and talked to him about taking this 180 00:13:27,240 --> 00:13:30,320 Speaker 11: case for the fares during that time, and he told 181 00:13:30,400 --> 00:13:33,280 Speaker 11: us it's right, that's in his office. He said, bring 182 00:13:33,360 --> 00:13:36,960 Speaker 11: him a ten thousand dollars retainer and he'll bring our 183 00:13:37,000 --> 00:13:41,760 Speaker 11: love one home. Of course, ten thousand dollars, he might 184 00:13:41,840 --> 00:13:44,880 Speaker 11: well say ten million at that time to me, you know, 185 00:13:45,760 --> 00:13:48,079 Speaker 11: and you know, we just we just didn't have it, 186 00:13:48,120 --> 00:13:50,360 Speaker 11: couldn't do it. Everybody scratching to make it and feed 187 00:13:50,400 --> 00:13:53,439 Speaker 11: the family. And we all understood that because I'm thinking, Okay, 188 00:13:53,960 --> 00:13:55,520 Speaker 11: I got to get a loan, I got to do, 189 00:13:55,640 --> 00:13:59,040 Speaker 11: you know something. But that was what was amazing too 190 00:13:59,080 --> 00:14:01,480 Speaker 11: Bill to fire is he understood that. He was like, 191 00:14:01,559 --> 00:14:03,520 Speaker 11: because don't worry about that. I'm gonna be all right. 192 00:14:03,559 --> 00:14:06,480 Speaker 11: I didn't do this loo That was his old thing. 193 00:14:06,559 --> 00:14:08,880 Speaker 11: They're not gonna lock me up because I didn't do this. 194 00:14:17,440 --> 00:14:21,480 Speaker 1: Judge Alfred Bayhackle appoints two attorneys to represent to forrest 195 00:14:22,080 --> 00:14:25,320 Speaker 1: a sharply dressed, thirty two year old black man named 196 00:14:25,480 --> 00:14:30,360 Speaker 1: Darryl Bender and Erskine mathis a white, middle aged former 197 00:14:30,400 --> 00:14:35,640 Speaker 1: police officer with a thick mustache. In nineteen ninety seven, 198 00:14:35,760 --> 00:14:40,240 Speaker 1: Alabama paid appointed defense attorneys just twenty dollars an hour 199 00:14:40,440 --> 00:14:43,920 Speaker 1: for work outside the courtroom, with a cap of one 200 00:14:43,960 --> 00:14:49,120 Speaker 1: thousand dollars. Most appointed lawyers can't afford to work for free, 201 00:14:49,600 --> 00:14:53,040 Speaker 1: so this very low cap limited how well they could 202 00:14:53,040 --> 00:15:04,080 Speaker 1: prepare for trial. Our Dregis Ford is first to go 203 00:15:04,120 --> 00:15:08,040 Speaker 1: to trial in November of nineteen ninety seven. There's a 204 00:15:08,080 --> 00:15:11,120 Speaker 1: photo of him in the newspaper. He's sitting in his 205 00:15:11,160 --> 00:15:16,160 Speaker 1: wheelchair in court wearing a starched collared shirt and dark blazer. 206 00:15:17,440 --> 00:15:20,200 Speaker 1: The junior prosecutor on the case is a thirty four 207 00:15:20,280 --> 00:15:25,080 Speaker 1: year old black man named Theo Lawson. Jeff Wallace is 208 00:15:25,120 --> 00:15:30,280 Speaker 1: the lead prosecutor. He's tall, white, a commanding figure in 209 00:15:30,320 --> 00:15:34,440 Speaker 1: the court room, forty three years old, twelve years into 210 00:15:34,480 --> 00:15:35,040 Speaker 1: his career. 211 00:15:36,120 --> 00:15:40,000 Speaker 5: I think my reputation was of being a tough prosecutor, 212 00:15:40,440 --> 00:15:42,600 Speaker 5: meaning if I had the case, I pushed it to 213 00:15:42,640 --> 00:15:46,360 Speaker 5: his limits. And I think my reputation might be that 214 00:15:46,400 --> 00:15:49,760 Speaker 5: I was maybe a little too tough. Sometimes I hope 215 00:15:49,760 --> 00:15:51,880 Speaker 5: that's not true, but I'm afraid it might be true. 216 00:15:52,880 --> 00:15:57,360 Speaker 1: Jeff Wallace was assigned to major cases and aggressively sought 217 00:15:57,520 --> 00:16:01,080 Speaker 1: to please his boss, DA David Barr, who was a 218 00:16:01,080 --> 00:16:05,520 Speaker 1: tough on crime leader focused on getting convictions, and this 219 00:16:05,760 --> 00:16:10,200 Speaker 1: case was personal for Jeff Wallace. He knew the victim. 220 00:16:10,920 --> 00:16:17,200 Speaker 5: Every prosecutor who is diligent, works closely with the police, 221 00:16:17,360 --> 00:16:20,840 Speaker 5: and when something happens to one of them, you're not 222 00:16:21,040 --> 00:16:23,520 Speaker 5: one of the boys in blue, as they say, but 223 00:16:24,200 --> 00:16:28,400 Speaker 5: they're your friends. So when this happened to Deputy Hardy, 224 00:16:28,880 --> 00:16:29,760 Speaker 5: he got my attention. 225 00:16:31,520 --> 00:16:34,640 Speaker 1: The trial against ar dregas Ford starts at one fifty 226 00:16:34,680 --> 00:16:39,120 Speaker 1: pm on November fifth. In a short opening statement, the 227 00:16:39,160 --> 00:16:43,160 Speaker 1: prosecution summarizes the crime for the jury, arguing that our 228 00:16:43,240 --> 00:16:47,320 Speaker 1: dragas Ford is guilty of capital murder. They don't mention 229 00:16:47,440 --> 00:16:52,480 Speaker 1: a motive. Afterwards, Jeff Wallace calls the county's chief medical 230 00:16:52,520 --> 00:16:57,080 Speaker 1: examiner to the stand. He explains that Hardy's wounds were 231 00:16:57,120 --> 00:17:01,720 Speaker 1: at an upward angle through his head. Jeff Wallace argues 232 00:17:02,240 --> 00:17:06,639 Speaker 1: this would be consistent with Ardregas firing the shots from 233 00:17:06,680 --> 00:17:12,200 Speaker 1: his wheelchair. Prosecutors also call Yolanda Chambers as a witness, 234 00:17:12,640 --> 00:17:16,639 Speaker 1: even though she recanted her story in court a year ago. 235 00:17:17,960 --> 00:17:20,520 Speaker 1: Since then, she's gone back to saying that she was 236 00:17:20,600 --> 00:17:24,679 Speaker 1: there when Hardy was killed. She now says she saw 237 00:17:24,880 --> 00:17:30,919 Speaker 1: ardregas Ford fire at least one shot. Richard Jaffey. Ardregas's 238 00:17:31,000 --> 00:17:35,720 Speaker 1: lawyer argues that if the hotel witnesses had seen ardregas 239 00:17:35,760 --> 00:17:38,680 Speaker 1: Ford commit the crime. They would have seen this. 240 00:17:39,880 --> 00:17:45,040 Speaker 4: Ardregas Ford wheeling up about thirty feet of an incline 241 00:17:45,160 --> 00:17:51,880 Speaker 4: in his wheelchair, somehow finding an ability to shoot two 242 00:17:51,920 --> 00:18:00,160 Speaker 4: shots into Deputy Hardy, then be wheeled down by someone 243 00:18:00,880 --> 00:18:04,040 Speaker 4: all the way back to their car. The wheelchair would 244 00:18:04,040 --> 00:18:06,040 Speaker 4: have had to been put in there. Ardregas would have 245 00:18:06,040 --> 00:18:09,800 Speaker 4: had to been physically put into the driver's seat. De 246 00:18:09,920 --> 00:18:12,159 Speaker 4: Forrest would have had to have gotten back into the 247 00:18:12,200 --> 00:18:14,560 Speaker 4: passenger seat, and then they would have driven off, and 248 00:18:14,600 --> 00:18:18,160 Speaker 4: that would have taken at least a minute or two minimum. 249 00:18:18,920 --> 00:18:22,520 Speaker 1: Of course, no one at the hotel saw anything like that. 250 00:18:23,720 --> 00:18:29,000 Speaker 4: The only thing they had on ardregas Ford was Yolanda Chambers. 251 00:18:30,320 --> 00:18:34,240 Speaker 1: Jaffe calls witnesses to the stand who saw Ardregis at 252 00:18:34,280 --> 00:18:37,560 Speaker 1: Tea's Place at the same time that Deputy Hardy was shot. 253 00:18:38,800 --> 00:18:43,240 Speaker 4: We didn't call any witnesses other than alibi witnesses. 254 00:18:44,480 --> 00:18:47,840 Speaker 1: The key decision the jury has to make. Do they 255 00:18:47,880 --> 00:18:53,000 Speaker 1: believe Yolanda chambers testimony that ardregas killed Deputy Hardy behind 256 00:18:53,000 --> 00:18:57,200 Speaker 1: the Crown Sterling suites, or do they believe the three 257 00:18:57,240 --> 00:19:00,680 Speaker 1: alibi witnesses who say he was at Teaspace place at 258 00:19:00,680 --> 00:19:13,560 Speaker 1: the same time that Deputy Hardy was murdered. The jury 259 00:19:13,640 --> 00:19:17,840 Speaker 1: votes ten to two to acquit ardregas Ford, but that's 260 00:19:17,880 --> 00:19:23,240 Speaker 1: not enough. Murder trials require a unanimous verdict. Since this 261 00:19:23,359 --> 00:19:29,720 Speaker 1: decision was split, Judge Bayhackle declares a mistrial, but ardregas 262 00:19:29,760 --> 00:19:33,840 Speaker 1: Ford is not set free. The state plans to try 263 00:19:33,920 --> 00:19:59,639 Speaker 1: him a second time. Two weeks later, the first trial, 264 00:19:59,680 --> 00:20:04,920 Speaker 1: again to Forrest Johnson, begins. Here's to Forrest's cousin, Antonio Green. 265 00:20:06,119 --> 00:20:10,479 Speaker 11: I remember me personally myself. I was very optimistic. I 266 00:20:10,560 --> 00:20:15,359 Speaker 11: was very optimistic simply because I knew what they had, 267 00:20:15,400 --> 00:20:19,640 Speaker 11: which was nothing as far as evidence goes. I'm like, okay, well, 268 00:20:19,640 --> 00:20:21,520 Speaker 11: it's just a part of the process. They'll hear the 269 00:20:21,600 --> 00:20:25,800 Speaker 11: evidence or like thereof, and we'll be going home, you know, 270 00:20:25,840 --> 00:20:28,880 Speaker 11: and this is all over. But as the days went on, 271 00:20:29,680 --> 00:20:32,159 Speaker 11: from the first couple of days of the trial, you 272 00:20:32,160 --> 00:20:37,760 Speaker 11: could see a really different environment in the courtroom. 273 00:20:38,280 --> 00:20:41,159 Speaker 1: The only video from the trial I've seen is a 274 00:20:41,200 --> 00:20:44,840 Speaker 1: short TV news clip. It's filmed through a window on 275 00:20:44,880 --> 00:20:49,600 Speaker 1: the courtroom door, and to Forrest looks so young, much 276 00:20:49,680 --> 00:20:54,719 Speaker 1: younger than twenty four. He's clean shaven, baby faced, dressed 277 00:20:54,720 --> 00:20:57,720 Speaker 1: for court in a striped button down shirt and tie 278 00:20:58,000 --> 00:21:02,320 Speaker 1: with a gray blazer. He looks around the courtroom. Maybe 279 00:21:02,320 --> 00:21:06,080 Speaker 1: he's nervous, but then he lights up with a huge 280 00:21:06,119 --> 00:21:08,720 Speaker 1: smile when he sees a family member who comes over 281 00:21:08,800 --> 00:21:13,720 Speaker 1: to speak with him. The state's lead prosecutor, Jeff Wallace, 282 00:21:13,920 --> 00:21:17,160 Speaker 1: gets up in front of the jury. Just two weeks earlier, 283 00:21:17,720 --> 00:21:22,040 Speaker 1: he argued that our Dregis Ford shot Deputy Hardy, but 284 00:21:22,240 --> 00:21:25,879 Speaker 1: now he tells a completely different story. He says that 285 00:21:26,040 --> 00:21:29,959 Speaker 1: to Forrest Johnson shot Hardy. The theory that the shooter 286 00:21:30,080 --> 00:21:33,840 Speaker 1: was seated in a wheelchair is never mentioned, and Yolanda 287 00:21:33,960 --> 00:21:39,439 Speaker 1: Chambers never sets foot in the courtroom. Instead, the prosecution 288 00:21:39,640 --> 00:21:42,520 Speaker 1: tells the jury in opening statements that they will hear 289 00:21:42,600 --> 00:21:46,560 Speaker 1: evidence that will convince them beyond a reasonable doubt that 290 00:21:46,640 --> 00:21:51,960 Speaker 1: to Forrest shot and killed Deputy Hardy. Then Jeff Wallace 291 00:21:52,080 --> 00:21:58,440 Speaker 1: introduces the state's new star witness, Violet Ellison. She tells 292 00:21:58,480 --> 00:22:02,639 Speaker 1: the jury she eavestrong on several three way calls because 293 00:22:02,680 --> 00:22:05,440 Speaker 1: she was concerned about her daughter talking to people at 294 00:22:05,440 --> 00:22:10,159 Speaker 1: the jail, and because she's naturally nosy. She says she 295 00:22:10,320 --> 00:22:14,280 Speaker 1: contacted detectives six days after she listened in on the 296 00:22:14,359 --> 00:22:18,920 Speaker 1: first call because she couldn't sleep after hearing information about 297 00:22:18,920 --> 00:22:23,959 Speaker 1: the murder of Deputy Bill Hardy. On the stand, Violet 298 00:22:24,000 --> 00:22:27,480 Speaker 1: Ellison tells the jury that she overheard to Forrest say 299 00:22:27,560 --> 00:22:31,919 Speaker 1: these words, I shot the fucker in the head, and 300 00:22:32,040 --> 00:22:35,560 Speaker 1: I saw his head go back and he fell, and 301 00:22:35,640 --> 00:22:46,480 Speaker 1: he shouldn't have got in my business messing up my shit. 302 00:22:48,720 --> 00:22:52,159 Speaker 1: There was no mention of I shot the fucker in 303 00:22:52,200 --> 00:22:56,440 Speaker 1: the head or anything like that. And Violet Ellison's original 304 00:22:56,520 --> 00:23:01,639 Speaker 1: recorded statement to police, she did write the statement down 305 00:23:01,720 --> 00:23:04,600 Speaker 1: in notes on the back of an envelope that she 306 00:23:04,720 --> 00:23:08,800 Speaker 1: submitted to police, but she gave them these notes six 307 00:23:08,960 --> 00:23:16,320 Speaker 1: weeks after her first recorded statement On the stand, She 308 00:23:16,440 --> 00:23:19,800 Speaker 1: says she jotted down the notes while she listened in 309 00:23:19,840 --> 00:23:23,200 Speaker 1: on the call between to Forest and Daisy, and then 310 00:23:23,240 --> 00:23:27,880 Speaker 1: copied the notes onto a sheet of paper. But it's 311 00:23:27,920 --> 00:23:30,560 Speaker 1: hard for me to believe that these notes were written 312 00:23:30,640 --> 00:23:35,440 Speaker 1: during the phone call she claims she overheard. For example, 313 00:23:35,960 --> 00:23:39,440 Speaker 1: Violet Ellison is adamant in her testimony that she heard 314 00:23:39,480 --> 00:23:44,040 Speaker 1: to Forest only use his first name, but her notes 315 00:23:44,280 --> 00:23:47,760 Speaker 1: refer to him as Johnson. If she was just writing 316 00:23:47,840 --> 00:23:51,520 Speaker 1: down what she heard while she heard it. Why wouldn't 317 00:23:51,600 --> 00:23:54,920 Speaker 1: she have written to Forest? How would she have known 318 00:23:55,000 --> 00:24:03,439 Speaker 1: his last name? To Forrest's attorneys also say that what 319 00:24:03,600 --> 00:24:07,200 Speaker 1: Violet Ellison heard was just one side of a conversation. 320 00:24:08,119 --> 00:24:11,439 Speaker 1: They say to Forrest was telling Daisy what he was 321 00:24:11,480 --> 00:24:15,520 Speaker 1: accused of doing, not what he did. He was responding 322 00:24:15,560 --> 00:24:19,680 Speaker 1: to her question, why are you in jail? But when 323 00:24:19,760 --> 00:24:24,520 Speaker 1: Darryl Bender questions Violet Ellison, she tells him she's positive 324 00:24:24,680 --> 00:24:28,439 Speaker 1: that Daisy never asked to Forrest why he was in jail. 325 00:24:29,240 --> 00:24:31,840 Speaker 1: But then she also says that she didn't pay any 326 00:24:31,840 --> 00:24:35,639 Speaker 1: attention to Daisy's side of the conversation because she was 327 00:24:35,760 --> 00:24:40,960 Speaker 1: only interested in what to Forest had to say. If 328 00:24:40,960 --> 00:24:44,840 Speaker 1: this feels confusing to you, welcome, I've been trying to 329 00:24:44,880 --> 00:24:49,040 Speaker 1: make this make sense for two years. How can Violet 330 00:24:49,080 --> 00:24:53,680 Speaker 1: Ellison insist that she knows what Daisy did or did 331 00:24:53,680 --> 00:24:57,760 Speaker 1: not say, while also admitting that she only listened to 332 00:24:57,880 --> 00:25:03,040 Speaker 1: one side of the conversation. Antonio Green, to Forrest's cousin, 333 00:25:03,400 --> 00:25:06,159 Speaker 1: remembers watching Violet Ellison on the stand. 334 00:25:07,320 --> 00:25:11,240 Speaker 11: The only evidence supposedly they had against was this ear witness, 335 00:25:11,480 --> 00:25:14,879 Speaker 11: who had never heard him speak before, who had no 336 00:25:15,000 --> 00:25:18,360 Speaker 11: idea who he was, but to sit in there and 337 00:25:18,400 --> 00:25:23,320 Speaker 11: see how the system from you know, the judge, the 338 00:25:23,400 --> 00:25:28,600 Speaker 11: prosecutors and all that pushed that case towards him. I 339 00:25:28,640 --> 00:25:31,240 Speaker 11: mean constantly it was he did it. We got the 340 00:25:31,320 --> 00:25:33,920 Speaker 11: right one. He did it, and forget the evidence, don't 341 00:25:33,920 --> 00:25:36,640 Speaker 11: worry about that. We're just telling you he did it. 342 00:25:36,640 --> 00:25:39,240 Speaker 11: It's pretty much, it's all they had. 343 00:25:40,600 --> 00:25:45,080 Speaker 1: When Violet Ellison finishes testifying, Daisy Williams takes the stand. 344 00:25:45,920 --> 00:25:49,480 Speaker 1: She says to Forrest did not admit to the murder 345 00:25:49,480 --> 00:25:52,840 Speaker 1: on that phone call, and she never heard him say 346 00:25:52,920 --> 00:26:00,520 Speaker 1: the things Violet Ellison claimed to overhear. So Violet Ellison, 347 00:26:00,720 --> 00:26:03,440 Speaker 1: a friend of the victim, says she heard one thing. 348 00:26:04,520 --> 00:26:08,320 Speaker 1: Daisy Williams, a friend of the accused, says she heard another. 349 00:26:09,640 --> 00:26:13,399 Speaker 1: The case comes down to who the jury will believe. 350 00:26:24,640 --> 00:26:29,560 Speaker 1: After five days of testimony to Forrest's supporters nervously wait 351 00:26:29,720 --> 00:26:33,879 Speaker 1: as the jury begins to deliberate, and once again, the 352 00:26:34,000 --> 00:26:40,200 Speaker 1: jury cannot reach a unanimous decision. Nine jurors vote to convict, 353 00:26:40,640 --> 00:26:45,280 Speaker 1: but three others are not convinced beyond a reasonable doubt. 354 00:26:45,359 --> 00:26:47,720 Speaker 1: The judge declares a mistrial. 355 00:26:50,880 --> 00:26:54,680 Speaker 11: They deliberated and they couldn't come to a verdict, so 356 00:26:54,880 --> 00:26:57,720 Speaker 11: they took him back to kept him locked up and 357 00:26:58,280 --> 00:27:02,160 Speaker 11: immediately pretty much gave had another date for a second trial. 358 00:27:02,680 --> 00:27:04,760 Speaker 1: So there wasn't really any time to celebrate. 359 00:27:05,000 --> 00:27:08,000 Speaker 11: No, no, no, no, it wasn't any of that. And 360 00:27:08,040 --> 00:27:10,560 Speaker 11: then even then I didn't think. I didn't look at 361 00:27:10,600 --> 00:27:16,000 Speaker 11: it as any type of victory, because an innocent man 362 00:27:16,040 --> 00:27:17,280 Speaker 11: should be found innocent. 363 00:27:41,760 --> 00:27:44,800 Speaker 8: Yeah, nice to see you, Jeff. 364 00:27:44,840 --> 00:27:45,760 Speaker 1: I'm at Shelburn. 365 00:27:46,800 --> 00:27:48,199 Speaker 8: You can call me back. Can I call you? 366 00:27:48,280 --> 00:27:48,560 Speaker 9: Jeff? 367 00:27:49,040 --> 00:27:49,680 Speaker 8: Okay? Great. 368 00:27:50,119 --> 00:27:54,800 Speaker 1: Jeff Wallace prosecuted both to Forrest and Ardregis. When I 369 00:27:54,840 --> 00:27:57,399 Speaker 1: emailed him to set up an interview, he asked me 370 00:27:57,600 --> 00:28:00,560 Speaker 1: to meet him at the large Methodist church attends in 371 00:28:00,600 --> 00:28:04,680 Speaker 1: a Birmingham suburb. He's now retired, but spent twenty five 372 00:28:04,800 --> 00:28:07,119 Speaker 1: years as a prosecutor in Jefferson County. 373 00:28:07,200 --> 00:28:07,680 Speaker 6: Beautiful. 374 00:28:07,760 --> 00:28:11,880 Speaker 1: Sure, we record the interview in the church's empty sanctuary. 375 00:28:12,480 --> 00:28:15,480 Speaker 1: He tells me he prefers to do interviews standing up 376 00:28:15,680 --> 00:28:20,000 Speaker 1: because of all of his courtroom experience. So we're standing 377 00:28:20,119 --> 00:28:25,080 Speaker 1: in this sanctuary at the altar, facing each other, having 378 00:28:25,119 --> 00:28:29,040 Speaker 1: this conversation in front of a giant pipe organ. The 379 00:28:29,080 --> 00:28:31,800 Speaker 1: way we're set up, it feels like We're either here 380 00:28:31,840 --> 00:28:37,159 Speaker 1: to debate or get married anyway. This is why the 381 00:28:37,240 --> 00:28:38,800 Speaker 1: recording sounds a little echoey. 382 00:28:39,800 --> 00:28:42,160 Speaker 5: We had a weak case. It's placed on testimony. 383 00:28:42,160 --> 00:28:46,760 Speaker 1: In one witness, Jeff Wallace remembers that the case against 384 00:28:46,960 --> 00:28:50,560 Speaker 1: to Forrest Johnson hinged on the testimony of Violet Ellison. 385 00:28:51,520 --> 00:28:54,440 Speaker 5: That is extremely strong evidence if it's believed. Of course, 386 00:28:54,480 --> 00:28:57,600 Speaker 5: the question becomes, so you believe that evidence? Well, to 387 00:28:57,600 --> 00:29:00,680 Speaker 5: believe that evidence, you have to pleaves Allison. To believe 388 00:29:00,760 --> 00:29:03,800 Speaker 5: miss Ellison, you have to look at the facts how 389 00:29:03,840 --> 00:29:04,760 Speaker 5: she said it happened. 390 00:29:06,320 --> 00:29:10,280 Speaker 1: To Forest's second trial begins eight months after the first 391 00:29:10,320 --> 00:29:15,680 Speaker 1: one ends in a mistrial. Jeff Wallace is the lead prosecutor. Again. 392 00:29:16,040 --> 00:29:19,680 Speaker 1: He calls Violet Ellison to the stand, where she testifies 393 00:29:19,880 --> 00:29:23,320 Speaker 1: that she overheard to Forrest admit to Hardy's murder on 394 00:29:23,400 --> 00:29:27,840 Speaker 1: a three way phone call. Jeff Wallace says Violet Ellison 395 00:29:28,040 --> 00:29:31,640 Speaker 1: listened in on the calls because she was concerned about 396 00:29:31,640 --> 00:29:37,440 Speaker 1: her daughter, and once again, to Forrest's attorneys call Daisy Williams, 397 00:29:37,640 --> 00:29:41,440 Speaker 1: who maintains that to Forest never confessed to the murder. 398 00:29:42,760 --> 00:29:47,280 Speaker 1: To Forest's lawyer, Darryl Bender asks Daisy did he describe 399 00:29:47,280 --> 00:29:51,240 Speaker 1: to you the series of events that he said had occurred. Daisy, 400 00:29:51,600 --> 00:29:57,200 Speaker 1: no bender. Did he tell you where this happened again, Daisy, 401 00:29:57,560 --> 00:30:01,880 Speaker 1: no bender? Did he tell you that he had killed somebody? 402 00:30:02,800 --> 00:30:08,479 Speaker 1: Daisy no, Sir. Jeff Wallace tries to cast doubt on 403 00:30:08,560 --> 00:30:13,280 Speaker 1: Daisy's testimony. He says, maybe Daisy is testifying about a 404 00:30:13,320 --> 00:30:20,120 Speaker 1: different call, or maybe she's just the wrong Daisy. Yet again, 405 00:30:20,520 --> 00:30:25,720 Speaker 1: it's one witnesses word against another. Right before Jeff Wallace 406 00:30:25,920 --> 00:30:29,520 Speaker 1: addresses the jury for closing statements, he picks up a 407 00:30:29,520 --> 00:30:33,600 Speaker 1: piece of evidence, Deputy Hardy's hat, the one that he 408 00:30:33,640 --> 00:30:37,120 Speaker 1: would always wear on duty, the one he was wearing 409 00:30:37,320 --> 00:30:40,280 Speaker 1: when he was shot. It has a bullet hole through 410 00:30:40,320 --> 00:30:45,360 Speaker 1: the brim. Jeff Wallace argues that Violet Ellison heard to 411 00:30:45,440 --> 00:30:54,960 Speaker 1: Forrest Johnson bragging about what he did. Wallace turns to 412 00:30:55,040 --> 00:30:58,320 Speaker 1: the jury and says, let me read you the words, 413 00:30:59,080 --> 00:31:05,680 Speaker 1: his words, not mine. I shot the fucker in the head. 414 00:31:06,120 --> 00:31:09,280 Speaker 1: I saw his head go back and he fell. He 415 00:31:09,320 --> 00:31:13,040 Speaker 1: should never have gotten my business messing up my shit. 416 00:31:15,600 --> 00:31:18,640 Speaker 1: He says these words to the jury like this is 417 00:31:18,680 --> 00:31:22,800 Speaker 1: an on the record statement directly from to Forrest Johnson, 418 00:31:23,560 --> 00:31:28,000 Speaker 1: when it's really Violet Ellison's testimony of what she says 419 00:31:28,360 --> 00:31:36,800 Speaker 1: she overheard however it occurred. Wallace continues, he's proud of 420 00:31:36,880 --> 00:31:41,120 Speaker 1: his role in it, and don't forget that, no matter 421 00:31:41,160 --> 00:31:44,520 Speaker 1: how many shots were fired, he's proud of the one 422 00:31:44,640 --> 00:31:49,600 Speaker 1: he put into Deputy Hardy's head. Here's his respect for 423 00:31:49,680 --> 00:31:54,760 Speaker 1: Bill Hardy. Wallace throws Hardy's hat onto the courtroom floor. 424 00:31:55,800 --> 00:32:06,040 Speaker 1: He's as guilty as they come. Judge Bahackle gives the 425 00:32:06,120 --> 00:32:10,400 Speaker 1: jury instructions to carefully consider all of the evidence. They 426 00:32:10,440 --> 00:32:14,560 Speaker 1: begin deliberations at four twenty five pm on a Friday 427 00:32:14,600 --> 00:32:18,680 Speaker 1: afternoon to Forest's family waits for the verdict. 428 00:32:19,840 --> 00:32:24,720 Speaker 11: He's a defendant, but he's innocent until proven guilty. That 429 00:32:24,760 --> 00:32:27,080 Speaker 11: didn't seem to be the case in the courtroom during 430 00:32:27,080 --> 00:32:30,240 Speaker 11: that time. It was like, you have to go above 431 00:32:30,400 --> 00:32:34,480 Speaker 11: and beyond to prove you're innocent because as a right 432 00:32:34,560 --> 00:32:38,080 Speaker 11: now you're guilty. And that was a a there was 433 00:32:38,120 --> 00:32:40,480 Speaker 11: a dark feeling in there. You couldn't you couldn't get 434 00:32:40,480 --> 00:32:41,040 Speaker 11: around it. 435 00:32:42,520 --> 00:32:45,880 Speaker 1: Two and a half hours later, at seven to ten pm, 436 00:32:46,280 --> 00:32:49,200 Speaker 1: the jurors file back into the courtroom with their decision 437 00:32:50,400 --> 00:33:01,520 Speaker 1: to Forrest. Johnson is found guilty of capital murder Judge 438 00:33:01,600 --> 00:33:06,000 Speaker 1: Bay Hackle schedules the penalty phase for the following Monday. 439 00:33:06,080 --> 00:33:09,080 Speaker 1: This is when the jury will decide to Forrest's fate, 440 00:33:09,600 --> 00:33:12,640 Speaker 1: should he be sent to prison for life without parole 441 00:33:13,600 --> 00:33:18,080 Speaker 1: or put to death for Hardy's murder. The penalty phase 442 00:33:18,120 --> 00:33:21,960 Speaker 1: of a capital murder case represents the highest stakes in 443 00:33:22,000 --> 00:33:26,120 Speaker 1: our criminal justice system. Defense attorneys often call lots of 444 00:33:26,200 --> 00:33:30,960 Speaker 1: witnesses and sometimes spend weeks presenting evidence to try to 445 00:33:31,000 --> 00:33:35,680 Speaker 1: convince the jury to spare their client's life. The penalty 446 00:33:35,680 --> 00:33:40,400 Speaker 1: phase hearing for to Forest Johnson lasts only eighty minutes. 447 00:33:42,280 --> 00:33:45,960 Speaker 1: To Forrest's attorneys call three members of his family to testify. 448 00:33:46,920 --> 00:33:50,760 Speaker 1: When Erskine Mathis asks to Forrest's grandmother, you know what 449 00:33:50,800 --> 00:33:55,200 Speaker 1: we're here for today, she answers, well, yeah, I guess 450 00:33:55,920 --> 00:33:59,840 Speaker 1: not really, though it's clear Mathis and Bender didn't add 451 00:33:59,880 --> 00:34:04,160 Speaker 1: a quickly prepare her for the hearing. On the stand 452 00:34:04,320 --> 00:34:08,440 Speaker 1: to Forrest's mother, Donna cries so hard she can barely 453 00:34:08,520 --> 00:34:12,080 Speaker 1: hold her head up. At one point, Mattha says to her, 454 00:34:12,520 --> 00:34:14,719 Speaker 1: listen to me. Can you raise your head up and 455 00:34:14,800 --> 00:34:19,280 Speaker 1: look at me? Donna Johnson tells the jury through her tears, 456 00:34:20,200 --> 00:34:25,440 Speaker 1: just don't give my baby no electric chair. The final 457 00:34:25,480 --> 00:34:28,400 Speaker 1: witness is to Forrest's cousin, Antonio Green. 458 00:34:29,800 --> 00:34:33,040 Speaker 11: I'm fifty two years old and until the day that's 459 00:34:33,080 --> 00:34:36,319 Speaker 11: probably one of the hardest things I've ever had to do, 460 00:34:36,520 --> 00:34:41,400 Speaker 11: was get on that stand and beg for his life. 461 00:34:42,920 --> 00:34:47,200 Speaker 1: The jury deliberates to Forrest's fate for over five hours. 462 00:34:48,120 --> 00:34:50,960 Speaker 1: In the decision about whether or not to Forest should 463 00:34:51,000 --> 00:34:55,120 Speaker 1: live or die, all of the jurors don't have to agree. 464 00:34:55,760 --> 00:34:59,840 Speaker 1: A unanimous vote is needed for guilt or innocence. But 465 00:35:00,000 --> 00:35:02,799 Speaker 1: but a jury in Alabama can sentence a person to 466 00:35:02,960 --> 00:35:07,200 Speaker 1: death with a majority vote of ten to two, and 467 00:35:07,320 --> 00:35:11,560 Speaker 1: just after five pm they reach a decision with the 468 00:35:11,600 --> 00:35:15,840 Speaker 1: minimum number of votes needed ten to two. The jury 469 00:35:15,920 --> 00:35:31,040 Speaker 1: recommends the death penalty. Judge Alfred Bahackle affirms the recommendation 470 00:35:31,600 --> 00:35:35,360 Speaker 1: that to Forrest Johnson be executed for the murder of 471 00:35:35,480 --> 00:35:41,279 Speaker 1: Deputy Bill Hardy. One newspaper reports that to Forest sat 472 00:35:41,400 --> 00:35:45,920 Speaker 1: motionless as the jury's recommendation was read, appearing to be stunned. 473 00:35:47,040 --> 00:35:56,799 Speaker 1: To Forrest's mother, Donna, screamed no, no, no. To Forrest's 474 00:35:56,800 --> 00:36:00,239 Speaker 1: oldest daughter, Shane, was in the courtroom that day. She 475 00:36:00,360 --> 00:36:02,480 Speaker 1: was six years old at the time. 476 00:36:03,560 --> 00:36:06,000 Speaker 9: And I just kept kind of trying to get his 477 00:36:06,080 --> 00:36:09,120 Speaker 9: attention and blurting out how nice he looked in his suit. 478 00:36:09,960 --> 00:36:14,680 Speaker 9: And so finally the judge kind of had me escorted out. 479 00:36:14,480 --> 00:36:16,280 Speaker 10: Of the courtroom. 480 00:36:16,320 --> 00:36:19,880 Speaker 9: But there's a little small window, and my cousin had 481 00:36:19,960 --> 00:36:21,839 Speaker 9: me on his shoulders. He escorted me out. He had 482 00:36:21,880 --> 00:36:23,640 Speaker 9: me on his shoulders so I could just peek through 483 00:36:23,680 --> 00:36:28,240 Speaker 9: and see my dad through that little small courtroom window 484 00:36:29,640 --> 00:36:34,080 Speaker 9: and ironically stole that was my last memory of him 485 00:36:34,239 --> 00:36:35,120 Speaker 9: in the free world. 486 00:37:17,719 --> 00:37:22,799 Speaker 10: So my thing is this, why didn't the arabnden reach 487 00:37:22,840 --> 00:37:23,279 Speaker 10: out to me? 488 00:37:24,719 --> 00:37:30,520 Speaker 1: To Flores Felanick Sanders aka Queisi, still wonders why to 489 00:37:30,600 --> 00:37:34,520 Speaker 1: Forrest's attorneys didn't call her or Mama Cat to testify 490 00:37:34,680 --> 00:37:38,600 Speaker 1: at his second trial like they did in the first one. 491 00:37:38,760 --> 00:37:42,279 Speaker 10: That makes me feel like we failed them because we 492 00:37:42,400 --> 00:37:45,200 Speaker 10: saw them and we wasn't the only ones, so it's 493 00:37:45,280 --> 00:37:48,719 Speaker 10: like what we said didn't even matter, like they didn't 494 00:37:48,760 --> 00:37:50,000 Speaker 10: take it into consideration. 495 00:37:51,239 --> 00:37:54,759 Speaker 1: Mama Cat and Quisi were important alibi witnesses at his 496 00:37:54,880 --> 00:37:58,160 Speaker 1: first trial who saw him at Tea's place the night 497 00:37:58,280 --> 00:38:03,120 Speaker 1: party was murdered, and their testimony may have created enough 498 00:38:03,239 --> 00:38:08,600 Speaker 1: reasonable doubt to prevent a guilty verdict. Instead, to Forrest's 499 00:38:08,600 --> 00:38:13,560 Speaker 1: attorneys called two other witnesses from Teas, but these witnesses 500 00:38:13,800 --> 00:38:17,240 Speaker 1: didn't seem well prepared and were flustered on the stand. 501 00:38:20,640 --> 00:38:24,040 Speaker 1: I wondered the same about Marshall Kelly Cummings, the Keebler 502 00:38:24,080 --> 00:38:27,560 Speaker 1: cookie guy. Why didn't they call him as a witness 503 00:38:27,680 --> 00:38:31,640 Speaker 1: in the second trial? What he saw out the window, 504 00:38:32,239 --> 00:38:35,920 Speaker 1: one person slowly driving away in a copper colored car 505 00:38:36,760 --> 00:38:41,120 Speaker 1: that contradicted the state's story. But the jury that sentenced 506 00:38:41,120 --> 00:38:46,479 Speaker 1: to Forrest to death never heard from him. The third 507 00:38:46,600 --> 00:38:52,360 Speaker 1: difference between to Forest's first and second trials involves Latania Henderson, 508 00:38:52,680 --> 00:38:55,840 Speaker 1: the friend of Yolanda Chambers, who was in the car 509 00:38:56,000 --> 00:39:00,800 Speaker 1: with to Forest and Ardregis after they left Tea's place. Remember, 510 00:39:01,000 --> 00:39:04,719 Speaker 1: Latania was facing a charge of hindering prosecution. She went 511 00:39:04,800 --> 00:39:08,279 Speaker 1: to jail for five months because she refused to go 512 00:39:08,360 --> 00:39:12,919 Speaker 1: along with Yolanda chambers story. At the time of Taforrest's 513 00:39:13,080 --> 00:39:18,040 Speaker 1: second trial, Latania was still facing this charge when prosecutor 514 00:39:18,120 --> 00:39:23,239 Speaker 1: Jeff Wallace called her as a witness right before the 515 00:39:23,320 --> 00:39:27,240 Speaker 1: jurors were brought into the courtroom. Jeff Wallace told the judge, 516 00:39:27,880 --> 00:39:31,640 Speaker 1: the state wants to secure her testimony, and in that regard, 517 00:39:32,040 --> 00:39:38,360 Speaker 1: we are dismissing her hindering prosecution case. For years, Latania 518 00:39:38,440 --> 00:39:41,960 Speaker 1: said that she didn't know anything about Deputy Hardy's murder, 519 00:39:42,520 --> 00:39:45,680 Speaker 1: and it was only just before she took the stand 520 00:39:45,760 --> 00:39:49,880 Speaker 1: for the prosecution that the state dropped the felony charge 521 00:39:49,880 --> 00:39:55,480 Speaker 1: against her. Poof like magic. When she took the stand, 522 00:39:55,840 --> 00:39:59,640 Speaker 1: Latania stuck to her story that she wasn't there when 523 00:39:59,640 --> 00:40:03,800 Speaker 1: hardy was murdered, that no one in Ardregas's car talked 524 00:40:03,840 --> 00:40:08,160 Speaker 1: about killing anyone, But she did say that she had 525 00:40:08,200 --> 00:40:12,560 Speaker 1: a gun that night, and so did to Forrest. On 526 00:40:12,600 --> 00:40:15,880 Speaker 1: the stand, she said she hid her gun on the 527 00:40:15,960 --> 00:40:20,000 Speaker 1: tire of another car, and that Ardregas Yolanda and to 528 00:40:20,120 --> 00:40:25,000 Speaker 1: Forrest hid the other gun under the dashboard. Police searched 529 00:40:25,120 --> 00:40:29,439 Speaker 1: Ardregas's car after they impounded it. They never found a gun, 530 00:40:30,520 --> 00:40:34,719 Speaker 1: but Latanya's testimony put a gun into Forrest's hand on 531 00:40:34,800 --> 00:40:37,640 Speaker 1: the night of the murder, and this likely stuck with 532 00:40:37,680 --> 00:40:44,360 Speaker 1: the jury and finally to Forest's lawyers called an unexpected witness. 533 00:40:45,719 --> 00:40:48,760 Speaker 14: The thing that happened to me that is the most 534 00:40:49,160 --> 00:40:53,319 Speaker 14: just stunning, is putting Elanda Chambers on the on the 535 00:40:53,400 --> 00:40:54,960 Speaker 14: stand in the defense case. 536 00:40:56,200 --> 00:40:59,200 Speaker 1: Derek Drennan was a young lawyer working with Jaffey on 537 00:40:59,360 --> 00:41:04,080 Speaker 1: Ardregas's case at the time. Both attorneys were paying close 538 00:41:04,120 --> 00:41:08,200 Speaker 1: attention to to Forest's trials. When I first read the 539 00:41:08,239 --> 00:41:14,000 Speaker 1: trial transcript, I wondered, why would the defense call Yolanda 540 00:41:14,160 --> 00:41:17,880 Speaker 1: Chambers to the stand. And Derek had the same question 541 00:41:18,080 --> 00:41:19,880 Speaker 1: as he watched it unfold. 542 00:41:21,080 --> 00:41:24,520 Speaker 14: Why would you call the only person on the planet 543 00:41:24,560 --> 00:41:27,480 Speaker 14: who will testify on her oath that your client was there? 544 00:41:28,480 --> 00:41:32,560 Speaker 14: You know, and lia I mean knowing they're lying about it. 545 00:41:33,520 --> 00:41:36,200 Speaker 1: Yolanda testified that she was at the scene of the 546 00:41:36,280 --> 00:41:40,839 Speaker 1: crime with to Forest, Latanya and Ardregis. She said it 547 00:41:40,920 --> 00:41:46,239 Speaker 1: was Ardregas, not to Forrest who killed Deputy Hardy. But 548 00:41:46,400 --> 00:41:52,560 Speaker 1: still her testimony directly contradicted to Forrest's alibi that he 549 00:41:52,680 --> 00:41:53,600 Speaker 1: was at Teas place. 550 00:41:55,920 --> 00:41:58,560 Speaker 14: They're asking a dury to believe her when she says, 551 00:41:59,280 --> 00:42:05,600 Speaker 14: you know, Johnson didn't shoot Afford it. I don't know 552 00:42:05,640 --> 00:42:10,799 Speaker 14: how that could that could be justified. There's nobody on 553 00:42:10,840 --> 00:42:13,520 Speaker 14: the planet that's going to put your client on that 554 00:42:13,640 --> 00:42:19,400 Speaker 14: parking lot that night except for you. Alana Chambers nobody 555 00:42:19,440 --> 00:42:26,160 Speaker 14: will and to put her up there to say that 556 00:42:26,280 --> 00:42:32,239 Speaker 14: their client was innocent because Ford did. It just beyond me. Yeah, 557 00:42:33,760 --> 00:42:36,560 Speaker 14: that to me is just it's just really inexplicable. 558 00:42:41,520 --> 00:42:46,160 Speaker 1: Prosecutor Jeff Wallace seized on this at trial. In his 559 00:42:46,280 --> 00:42:50,040 Speaker 1: closing statement, he told the jury, if you go back 560 00:42:50,080 --> 00:42:53,320 Speaker 1: in the jury room and decide that Yolanda Chambers ought 561 00:42:53,360 --> 00:42:56,200 Speaker 1: not to have been allowed to testify because she's a 562 00:42:56,239 --> 00:43:00,239 Speaker 1: liar or whatever you might decide about her, that's okay. 563 00:43:01,200 --> 00:43:05,319 Speaker 1: State didn't call her the defense did I want you 564 00:43:05,400 --> 00:43:13,400 Speaker 1: to remember that I called both of to Forrest's original 565 00:43:13,440 --> 00:43:16,680 Speaker 1: trial lawyers to ask about the decisions they made in 566 00:43:16,719 --> 00:43:20,040 Speaker 1: defending to Forest, but neither would sit down with me 567 00:43:20,120 --> 00:43:21,440 Speaker 1: for an interview. 568 00:43:28,280 --> 00:43:31,560 Speaker 11: We forget sometime that there was a third person on 569 00:43:31,560 --> 00:43:35,239 Speaker 11: that phone who told him it discredits what this lady says. 570 00:43:35,239 --> 00:43:38,200 Speaker 11: She heard you know what I mean? And now, how 571 00:43:38,320 --> 00:43:41,920 Speaker 11: much closer can you get than that you're the third 572 00:43:41,960 --> 00:43:44,840 Speaker 11: party in that three way conversation and you say, no, 573 00:43:44,920 --> 00:43:45,960 Speaker 11: that's not what it was. 574 00:43:47,520 --> 00:43:50,480 Speaker 1: I needed to find the person on the other end 575 00:43:50,520 --> 00:43:54,320 Speaker 1: of the phone call that Violet Ellison overheard, the person 576 00:43:54,360 --> 00:44:00,600 Speaker 1: who actually talked to Forest, Daisy Williams. Daisy was nineteen 577 00:44:00,840 --> 00:44:04,319 Speaker 1: when she testified it to Forrest's second trial. She's now 578 00:44:04,320 --> 00:44:08,240 Speaker 1: in her mid forties and has never spoken publicly about 579 00:44:08,239 --> 00:44:11,600 Speaker 1: the case, but she agrees to come to my house 580 00:44:11,760 --> 00:44:12,240 Speaker 1: to talk. 581 00:44:13,360 --> 00:44:15,000 Speaker 8: I'm a mechanic. How did you. 582 00:44:14,920 --> 00:44:17,040 Speaker 1: Get into being a mechanic? 583 00:44:17,120 --> 00:44:21,520 Speaker 8: Into working on carba growing up? I love cars. I 584 00:44:21,600 --> 00:44:24,200 Speaker 8: have a seventy one four at home now that I'm 585 00:44:24,200 --> 00:44:26,520 Speaker 8: trying to restore. I love working all them. I love, 586 00:44:26,640 --> 00:44:28,600 Speaker 8: you know, going to like the car races and everything. 587 00:44:29,520 --> 00:44:31,959 Speaker 1: We settle in on the couch and talk for over 588 00:44:32,000 --> 00:44:32,480 Speaker 1: an hour. 589 00:44:33,400 --> 00:44:35,719 Speaker 8: So Fars is a real good person. He got a 590 00:44:35,719 --> 00:44:36,240 Speaker 8: real good. 591 00:44:36,080 --> 00:44:40,000 Speaker 1: Heart, Daisy tells me to Forrest was friends with her 592 00:44:40,040 --> 00:44:44,080 Speaker 1: two brothers, Charles and Eugene. They used to hang out 593 00:44:44,160 --> 00:44:47,000 Speaker 1: and play basketball when they were growing up in Pratt City, 594 00:44:47,760 --> 00:44:51,000 Speaker 1: and her story about what happened on that phone call 595 00:44:51,440 --> 00:44:55,440 Speaker 1: is consistent. What she tells me more than twenty five 596 00:44:55,520 --> 00:44:59,520 Speaker 1: years later doesn't vary from what she said on the stand. 597 00:45:00,480 --> 00:45:02,920 Speaker 8: My cousin actually called me because he was in the 598 00:45:02,960 --> 00:45:04,520 Speaker 8: county jail at the time. 599 00:45:05,160 --> 00:45:06,160 Speaker 1: And who was that was that? 600 00:45:06,280 --> 00:45:07,040 Speaker 8: Fre Fred Carter? 601 00:45:07,200 --> 00:45:13,399 Speaker 1: Okay, Yeah, So when that initial call came to you. 602 00:45:13,600 --> 00:45:18,680 Speaker 1: I guess Fred had called Katrina, Violet Ellison's daughter and 603 00:45:18,719 --> 00:45:21,439 Speaker 1: then she made the three way call to connect him 604 00:45:21,520 --> 00:45:23,920 Speaker 1: to you. Yes, and then he put to Forrest On, 605 00:45:24,120 --> 00:45:24,799 Speaker 1: is that how it went? 606 00:45:25,040 --> 00:45:27,799 Speaker 8: Yes? He actually, like I said, he told me. He 607 00:45:27,920 --> 00:45:30,359 Speaker 8: was like, yes, who up here with me? And he knew, 608 00:45:30,360 --> 00:45:32,200 Speaker 8: you know, we all grew up in Press City together. 609 00:45:32,239 --> 00:45:33,919 Speaker 8: And he was like to for it's not like for real, 610 00:45:33,960 --> 00:45:36,279 Speaker 8: and he gave Forrest phone, let me talk to him. 611 00:45:36,320 --> 00:45:37,960 Speaker 8: So I'm talking to him, like man, what's going on? 612 00:45:38,040 --> 00:45:40,600 Speaker 8: And he told me I've been accused of, you know, 613 00:45:40,680 --> 00:45:42,520 Speaker 8: killing somebody. And I was like, man, you got a lawyer, 614 00:45:42,880 --> 00:45:44,719 Speaker 8: and he was like yeah, and we left it at that. 615 00:45:45,280 --> 00:45:48,360 Speaker 8: We didn't go no further with that conversation about the 616 00:45:48,440 --> 00:45:51,000 Speaker 8: depth they that share. He said he was accused and 617 00:45:51,040 --> 00:45:52,200 Speaker 8: that's all he said to me. 618 00:45:53,200 --> 00:45:57,480 Speaker 1: Why did the jury believe this woman who eavesdrop on 619 00:45:57,520 --> 00:46:00,120 Speaker 1: the call over you who actually. 620 00:46:00,280 --> 00:46:03,560 Speaker 8: On the call. I don't understand. I never understood that. 621 00:46:04,120 --> 00:46:06,960 Speaker 8: You know, they went on hearsay, They went on, which 622 00:46:07,120 --> 00:46:09,960 Speaker 8: she said she overheard they didn't actually listen to me. 623 00:46:10,000 --> 00:46:12,759 Speaker 8: I was young, so I feel like by me being young, 624 00:46:12,800 --> 00:46:14,880 Speaker 8: they didn't actually listen to me, Oh, well, she's just 625 00:46:14,960 --> 00:46:18,000 Speaker 8: you know, somebody you know knows she probably just saying something, 626 00:46:18,239 --> 00:46:19,640 Speaker 8: and that's how I felt. 627 00:46:28,000 --> 00:46:31,480 Speaker 1: There are two recurring questions that come up when to 628 00:46:31,600 --> 00:46:34,360 Speaker 1: Forest's family and friends talk with me about the case. 629 00:46:36,640 --> 00:46:43,200 Speaker 1: The first, why isn't Violet Ellison's testimony hearsay? Usually something 630 00:46:43,280 --> 00:46:48,200 Speaker 1: that someone overheard is considered hearsay and not admissible as 631 00:46:48,239 --> 00:46:52,759 Speaker 1: evidence in court. To Forest's lawyers tried to argue that 632 00:46:52,880 --> 00:46:56,359 Speaker 1: Violet Ellison's testimony was hearsay to get it thrown out, 633 00:46:57,120 --> 00:47:01,279 Speaker 1: but the judge overruled them. It turned out there is 634 00:47:01,320 --> 00:47:04,799 Speaker 1: an exception to the hearsay rule when someone claims to 635 00:47:04,880 --> 00:47:10,800 Speaker 1: overhear the defendant admitting to the crime. The second isn't 636 00:47:10,840 --> 00:47:15,759 Speaker 1: the jail supposed to record phone calls? According to testimony 637 00:47:15,800 --> 00:47:19,680 Speaker 1: from a jail supervisor, the phones in the Jefferson County 638 00:47:19,760 --> 00:47:23,760 Speaker 1: jail weren't equipped with the ability to record in nineteen 639 00:47:23,840 --> 00:47:35,200 Speaker 1: ninety five. One of the hardest things to comprehend about 640 00:47:35,200 --> 00:47:38,800 Speaker 1: this case is what happens ten months after to Forrest 641 00:47:38,880 --> 00:47:43,080 Speaker 1: Johnson was convicted and sentenced to death. In June of 642 00:47:43,200 --> 00:47:47,880 Speaker 1: nineteen ninety nine, the state once again tries to convict 643 00:47:48,040 --> 00:47:54,040 Speaker 1: Ardregis Ford. Jeff Wallace prosecutes the Hardy case for the 644 00:47:54,080 --> 00:48:00,880 Speaker 1: fourth time. In the States, star witness Yolanda Chambers Violet 645 00:48:00,920 --> 00:48:06,440 Speaker 1: Ellison is never even mentioned, and Wallace presents yet another 646 00:48:06,719 --> 00:48:11,600 Speaker 1: theory of the crime, a fifth theory. At the grand 647 00:48:11,680 --> 00:48:15,760 Speaker 1: jury hearing, the state argued that Ardregas and Omar Barry 648 00:48:15,920 --> 00:48:21,240 Speaker 1: killed Deputy Hardy. Then, at Ardregas's first trial, Jeff Wallace 649 00:48:21,280 --> 00:48:24,840 Speaker 1: said Ardregas was the only person who killed Deputy Hardy. 650 00:48:25,960 --> 00:48:29,040 Speaker 1: Then at to Forrest's first trial a month later, he 651 00:48:29,280 --> 00:48:33,560 Speaker 1: argued that to Forrest was the only shooter. A year later, 652 00:48:33,640 --> 00:48:36,640 Speaker 1: when to Forest was tried a second time, the state 653 00:48:36,760 --> 00:48:41,000 Speaker 1: said to Forrest fired a shot, and so did Quintez Wilson, 654 00:48:41,760 --> 00:48:45,400 Speaker 1: but they said Wilson was not being tried because of 655 00:48:45,440 --> 00:48:50,920 Speaker 1: a lack of evidence. And finally, after to Forrest, Johnson 656 00:48:51,040 --> 00:48:56,120 Speaker 1: was sentenced to death. And after Jeff Wallace characterized Yolanda 657 00:48:56,200 --> 00:49:01,560 Speaker 1: Chambers as a liar, he turns around and uses Yolanda 658 00:49:01,640 --> 00:49:07,440 Speaker 1: as his own star witness against Ardregas Ford. The jury 659 00:49:07,560 --> 00:49:11,640 Speaker 1: in Ardregas's second trial deliberates for less than an hour 660 00:49:11,880 --> 00:49:18,040 Speaker 1: and declares him not guilty. Ardregas is acquitted. I talked 661 00:49:18,080 --> 00:49:22,080 Speaker 1: to his cousin Nicole about that moment. I wonder how 662 00:49:22,080 --> 00:49:24,200 Speaker 1: that made you feel. I mean, did it make you 663 00:49:24,239 --> 00:49:27,080 Speaker 1: feel like the system worked that ar Dregas was acquitted. 664 00:49:28,960 --> 00:49:31,600 Speaker 13: It didn't make me feel like the system work. It 665 00:49:31,760 --> 00:49:37,520 Speaker 13: showed me that Richard Jaffi did a wonderful job defending him. 666 00:49:38,360 --> 00:49:42,719 Speaker 1: Ardregus and to Forrest had the same alibi. Nobody denies 667 00:49:43,000 --> 00:49:46,640 Speaker 1: that they were together the knight Hardy was killed, but 668 00:49:46,719 --> 00:49:51,800 Speaker 1: there was a major difference between their cases. Ardregas's family 669 00:49:52,239 --> 00:49:55,680 Speaker 1: was able to pay for a renowned attorney and to 670 00:49:55,840 --> 00:50:02,560 Speaker 1: Forrest's family wasn't. Meanwhile, prosecutors had a powerful tool at 671 00:50:02,600 --> 00:50:07,399 Speaker 1: their disposal, the ability to use multiple theories to get 672 00:50:07,440 --> 00:50:11,640 Speaker 1: the outcome. They were seeking someone to go down for 673 00:50:11,760 --> 00:50:12,560 Speaker 1: Hardy's murder. 674 00:50:13,719 --> 00:50:18,839 Speaker 4: No prosecutors should be allowed to, in any case, much 675 00:50:18,920 --> 00:50:24,600 Speaker 4: less a death penalty case, to try two different defendants 676 00:50:25,080 --> 00:50:30,800 Speaker 4: for the same crime using a different theory and different 677 00:50:30,960 --> 00:50:34,880 Speaker 4: sets of witnesses, as if they're staging two Broadway plays 678 00:50:34,920 --> 00:50:36,440 Speaker 4: of the same scenario. 679 00:50:37,360 --> 00:50:40,960 Speaker 1: Richard jeffy Ardregus's lawyer, this. 680 00:50:41,000 --> 00:50:47,000 Speaker 4: Case is all about alternative worlds that are in conflict 681 00:50:47,040 --> 00:50:50,560 Speaker 4: with each other. And in conflict with truth, and in 682 00:50:50,600 --> 00:50:53,080 Speaker 4: conflict with what our justice system stands for. 683 00:50:54,880 --> 00:51:00,960 Speaker 1: Arguing inconsistent theories isn't technically illegal, but I mean, come on, 684 00:51:01,680 --> 00:51:06,120 Speaker 1: five different theories. There is no way all five of 685 00:51:06,160 --> 00:51:11,359 Speaker 1: these theories can be true. These theories are mutually exclusive 686 00:51:12,000 --> 00:51:17,200 Speaker 1: in conflict with each other. I ask Jeff Wallace to 687 00:51:17,360 --> 00:51:23,280 Speaker 1: explain how could he argue these mutually exclusive theories against 688 00:51:23,400 --> 00:51:25,880 Speaker 1: two different people for the same crime. 689 00:51:26,719 --> 00:51:30,520 Speaker 5: It's a valid question, but it's not the right question. 690 00:51:31,400 --> 00:51:33,960 Speaker 5: The right question is whether or not we argued something 691 00:51:34,840 --> 00:51:37,240 Speaker 5: that was supported by the evidence in that trial. 692 00:51:37,480 --> 00:51:41,239 Speaker 1: But help me understand how, as a prosecutor you can 693 00:51:41,520 --> 00:51:44,600 Speaker 1: argue that one person is the gunman in the killing 694 00:51:44,640 --> 00:51:47,799 Speaker 1: of a deputy, he's convicted and sentenced to death, and 695 00:51:47,840 --> 00:51:51,520 Speaker 1: then at a subsequent trial argue that another person was 696 00:51:51,560 --> 00:51:52,120 Speaker 1: the shooter. 697 00:51:54,440 --> 00:51:59,960 Speaker 5: Well, it would not be, if I can be hyper technical, 698 00:52:00,400 --> 00:52:02,280 Speaker 5: it would not be the shooter of the sign bullet. 699 00:52:03,000 --> 00:52:07,560 Speaker 1: Jeff Wallace gives me a long winded explanation about how 700 00:52:07,760 --> 00:52:11,280 Speaker 1: two people could be guilty of the same crime if, 701 00:52:11,560 --> 00:52:16,160 Speaker 1: for example, one person shoots a victim and another fires 702 00:52:16,200 --> 00:52:20,960 Speaker 1: a shot, but the bullet flies off into space. Welcome 703 00:52:21,440 --> 00:52:24,200 Speaker 1: but that's not what Jeff Wallace argued at trial. 704 00:52:24,480 --> 00:52:27,160 Speaker 5: Gill's the victim. You don't have to decide which one 705 00:52:27,160 --> 00:52:28,960 Speaker 5: fired the shot or both guilty. 706 00:52:29,239 --> 00:52:31,520 Speaker 1: But the evidence showed that there was only one gun 707 00:52:31,560 --> 00:52:32,719 Speaker 1: and one gunman, right. 708 00:52:33,680 --> 00:52:34,879 Speaker 5: Oh, I don't know if you say that. 709 00:52:36,480 --> 00:52:40,880 Speaker 1: I think that's what the firearms expert testified to he did. 710 00:52:41,320 --> 00:52:44,960 Speaker 1: A firearms examiner looked at the two shell casings found 711 00:52:44,960 --> 00:52:48,360 Speaker 1: at the murder scene and determined they had been fired 712 00:52:48,480 --> 00:52:52,760 Speaker 1: from the same nine milimeters pistol, indicating there was only 713 00:52:52,840 --> 00:52:58,480 Speaker 1: one shooter. I keep pressing him. I want Jeff Wallace 714 00:52:58,719 --> 00:53:02,320 Speaker 1: to tell me how he's squared in his own mind 715 00:53:02,760 --> 00:53:08,760 Speaker 1: these contradictory theories about who fired the fatal shots. Jeff 716 00:53:08,800 --> 00:53:12,759 Speaker 1: and I go round and round. In theory, prosecutors are 717 00:53:12,800 --> 00:53:16,560 Speaker 1: employed to seek the truth. They don't have a mandate 718 00:53:16,640 --> 00:53:21,080 Speaker 1: to obtain convictions. But the law allowed him to do 719 00:53:21,160 --> 00:53:24,920 Speaker 1: what he did. And Jeff Wallace told me himself he 720 00:53:25,040 --> 00:53:27,879 Speaker 1: was known to push a case to its limits. 721 00:53:28,719 --> 00:53:32,720 Speaker 5: I'm afraid that my reputation was that I was fairly 722 00:53:32,800 --> 00:53:38,040 Speaker 5: pan Oh. I tried to follow all the roads, tried 723 00:53:38,080 --> 00:53:40,719 Speaker 5: to do exactly what the boss wanted done, and so 724 00:53:40,760 --> 00:53:46,560 Speaker 5: I tried to follow all orders, and now wish I'd 725 00:53:46,600 --> 00:53:49,719 Speaker 5: been a little more yielding. Sometimes I wish I'd seen 726 00:53:49,760 --> 00:53:54,520 Speaker 5: a little more gray. But I was fairly black and white. 727 00:53:52,160 --> 00:53:52,239 Speaker 6: And. 728 00:53:54,000 --> 00:53:56,880 Speaker 5: I'm afraid I was fairly mean, and I'm not necessarily 729 00:53:56,960 --> 00:53:57,520 Speaker 5: proud of that. 730 00:54:01,320 --> 00:54:06,840 Speaker 1: As to Forrest's family watched their worst nightmare unfold, it 731 00:54:06,960 --> 00:54:10,560 Speaker 1: was clear that he wasn't the only one failed by 732 00:54:10,600 --> 00:54:15,520 Speaker 1: these trials. They also thought about Deputy Bill Hardy and 733 00:54:15,640 --> 00:54:16,360 Speaker 1: his family. 734 00:54:17,520 --> 00:54:20,600 Speaker 11: You know, the victim's family deserved to know what happened 735 00:54:20,600 --> 00:54:25,200 Speaker 11: to their loved one, but they get no justice, no 736 00:54:25,360 --> 00:54:29,560 Speaker 11: peace out of a wrongful conviction, you know. And this 737 00:54:29,800 --> 00:54:32,960 Speaker 11: is simply a case of just anybody all do and 738 00:54:33,080 --> 00:54:36,600 Speaker 11: looking at it from the inside, it seems like the 739 00:54:36,719 --> 00:54:41,879 Speaker 11: whole thing was just put together like a puzzle. All 740 00:54:42,000 --> 00:54:44,719 Speaker 11: this is going on in a court of law that's 741 00:54:44,719 --> 00:54:57,839 Speaker 11: supposed to be the most honest place in our country. 742 00:54:57,880 --> 00:55:02,280 Speaker 1: After he sentenced to death, correctional officers put to Forest 743 00:55:02,360 --> 00:55:05,160 Speaker 1: in a van and drive him two hundred miles south 744 00:55:05,160 --> 00:55:09,400 Speaker 1: of Birmingham. He arrives at Holman Prison and is assigned 745 00:55:09,719 --> 00:55:13,359 Speaker 1: a five y eight cell on death row, where he'll 746 00:55:13,360 --> 00:55:18,480 Speaker 1: spend twenty three hours a day, Roaches crawl everywhere, and 747 00:55:18,520 --> 00:55:23,640 Speaker 1: there's no air conditioning in this sweltering Alabama heat. As 748 00:55:23,719 --> 00:55:27,600 Speaker 1: months go by, to Forrest learns to survive in this 749 00:55:27,760 --> 00:55:32,879 Speaker 1: agonizing space, but he also sees prison guards take men 750 00:55:33,000 --> 00:55:36,400 Speaker 1: from their cells and walk them around the corner to 751 00:55:36,480 --> 00:55:41,120 Speaker 1: the death chamber, and he wonders when they are coming 752 00:55:41,200 --> 00:55:43,760 Speaker 1: for him? Is he next? 753 00:55:46,600 --> 00:55:49,319 Speaker 3: He just started crying and I asked him what was wrong, 754 00:55:49,360 --> 00:55:52,200 Speaker 3: and he said that he had just assumed that they 755 00:55:52,200 --> 00:55:54,560 Speaker 3: could come any minute and take him to be executed. 756 00:55:55,640 --> 00:56:04,880 Speaker 1: That's next time. Ear Witness is a production of Lava 757 00:56:04,960 --> 00:56:09,839 Speaker 1: for Good Podcasts in association with Signal Company Number One. 758 00:56:10,000 --> 00:56:15,080 Speaker 1: Executive producers are Jason Flom, Jeff Kempler, Kevin Wardis, and 759 00:56:15,200 --> 00:56:19,400 Speaker 1: me Beth Shelburn. The investigative reporting for this series was 760 00:56:19,440 --> 00:56:24,640 Speaker 1: done by Me and Mara McNamara. Producers are MARAA. McNamara, 761 00:56:24,840 --> 00:56:30,239 Speaker 1: Hannah Bial and Jackie Pawley. Kara Kornhaber is our senior producer. 762 00:56:30,920 --> 00:56:35,480 Speaker 1: Britt Spangler is our sound designer. Additional story editing from 763 00:56:35,560 --> 00:56:41,280 Speaker 1: Marie Sutton, fact check help from Katherine Newhan, and special 764 00:56:41,360 --> 00:56:45,960 Speaker 1: thanks to to Forrest Johnson's legal defense team. You can 765 00:56:46,000 --> 00:56:50,640 Speaker 1: follow the show on Instagram, TikTok, Facebook, and Twitter at 766 00:56:50,719 --> 00:56:54,040 Speaker 1: Lava for Good. To see behind the scenes content from 767 00:56:54,080 --> 00:57:05,320 Speaker 1: our investigation, visit Lava for Good dot com slash earwitness